##VIDEO ID:LtJkSw_sX1A## [Music] good evening Eileen can you please open up the meeting zoning board at adjustment meeting Monday August 12th 2024 I hereby declare this meeting of the how Township zoning board to be open adequate notice having been given pursuant to the New Jersey open public meeting act in the following manner first on December 11th 2023 a copy of said notice was mailed to the Asbury Park Press and the Star Ledger second on December 11th 2023 a copy of said notice was hand delivered to the clerk of the township of howl third on December 11th 2023 said notice was posted in the the office of the zoning board and on the bulletin board in the Howell Township Municipal Building 4567 Route 9 Howell Township New Jersey in accordance with the fire prevention code and your safety please be advised that this facility has been designed with two emergency exits where it are at the front and rear of the meeting room furthermore smoking is not permitted in the municipal building this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues of what the board May legally consider in rendering their decision and the decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times please take note that this meeting is being videotaped for possible future broadcast on Howell Township TV 77 thank you thank you I roll call please Mr burillo here Mr caner has been excused Mr Hughes here Mr Mertens here Mr Orosco has been excused Mr Stanton has been excused Mr Ryan present miss scotson here chairman SE here you have a quum thank you everyone please join Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all thank you Andy can we please swear in the professionals I do I do I do your name Charles conliff Jennifer beam sh speo your professional thank you sir okay item five on the agenda approval of minutes regular meeting July 8th 2024 eligible vote is burillo caner use Mertens Orosco scotson and seya can I have a motion please I'll make a motion to approve use second scotson roll call please Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Miss scotson yes chairman SE yes motion car's minutes are approved thank you item six vouchers Eileen any vouchers I have no vouchers Eileen item seven correspondence do we have any respond uh the only thing is an email I sent to all the members about storm water training for all board members and we have to keep a record of who's watched it and for Charlie to complete some items uh quite a few have already done it and sent me their emails but if you haven't please do so as soon as possible it's just a short video that you have to watch yes thank you got it thank you that's all I have okay resolutions before the board case number ba 2310 Royal t19 LLC resolution granting use and preliminary site plan approval and C variances eligible voters caner use Martens zoso Ryan and seya can have a motion please I'll make a motion to approve use I'll second Ryan Eileen roll call please Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Mr Ryan Yes chairman seya yes motion carries resolutions memorialized thank you case number ba 23- 07 U-Haul Company of New Jersey resolution granting use variance and preliminary and final major site plan with bulk variances eligible voters burillo caner use Mertens Orosco Ryan and seya can I have a motion please motion to approve burillo second it Ryan Eileen roll call please Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Mr Ryan Yes chairman say yes motion carries resolutions memorialized thank you case number ba 23-22 Infinity Plaza LLC resolution granting conditional use variant and M minor sight plan with bulk variances eligible vote is burillo caner huse Mertens zoso Ryan and seya motion please motion okay Martens and Hughes Eileen roll call please Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr merens yes Mr Ryan Yes chairman SE yes motion carries resolutions memorialized okay okay case number ba20 d101 A A A shw Properties LLC this is a resolution granting use variance and amended final major site plan with bulk variances eligible vote is burillo caner use Mertens Orosco and seya and a motion please motion to approve barello second Hughes IA roll call please Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes chairman seya yes motion carries resolutions memorialized thank you last of the resolutions case number ba10 d17 spa-2 Town Homes at Eagle Oaks resolution granting twoe two one-year extensions of time eligible voters burillo caner use Mertens Ryan scotson and seya motion please I'll make a motion to approve Ryan second scotson roll call please I Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson chman SE yes motion carries resolutions memorialized thank you now we move on to item nine of the agenda applications before the board case number ba 24-6 Turkish American religious Foundation Inc this is a conditional use variance and preliminary and final major site plan with anciliary bulk variance relief description application of Turkish American religious Foundation Inc as applicant and owner seeking approval for the conversion of an existing single family dwelling to a place of worship with one caretaker resigning on premises known as block 59.1 Lots 4849 and 4103 for windela Road this application was partially held on July 22nd 2024 when it was carried to August 12th with no further notice expiration date September 25th 2024 Mr alfery good evening Mr chair members of board salvator alfery clear giobi alfery and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant um just by way of brief introduction as as the chairman indicated we did present operational testimony at the last hearing during the course of that testimony two two changes were highlighted um that are of note one is that there was a back portion of the property a very large tracted vacant landlot 41.036927 the board is not part of this application no site improvements were proposed um so it's really just the main Lots where the single family home currently exists and then secondly we indicated that there is not going to be a care caretaker residence it'll be the home the parentage of the Iman and as a result of that the D1 relief would not be required because the car the um the the parsonage is ancillary to the house of worship use since the last meeting we've also submitted revised plans um with two changes to be highlighted one is we eliminated the illuminated sign and Mr defala will get into that momentarily we also have eliminated the reference in the in the plans to a sister's prayer room uh the bedroom which was going to be a bedroom and the IM iman's bedroom and the sister's prayer room is only going to be the iman's bedroom so there is no separate prayer room for for women any prayers will be conducted in the main prayer room um having said all that I'd like to introduce Mr Falco who is our civil engineer um he was not sworn in or qualified at the last meeting you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to you I do please state your name for the record and spell your last Richard DeFalco di f o l c and Mr Talco would you s before we go forward do you think that it would be great to have your client discuss these changes on the record if you the the two that I the only change that he didn't testify to was the sister's pray room the others we did testify to and the the removal of the other lot which was the I get it but I'm just saying I think probably we want to put it on the record right we'll bring them up it'll take a minute yeah we still need to get Mr DeFalco we'll get him okay he'll remember he'll remember his credentials I believe introduce yourself again to the board please my name is sadic sadic I'm the president of the uh TF Turkish American religious foundation and you you were you you understand you remain under oath from the last meeting yes okay so I highlighted a couple operational items that board planner has suggested we place under record through your testimony so the first is lot 41.036927 [Music] can't see the mic speak uh in the main room in the main prayer room that's already identified in the plan okay um and then finally again there's not going to be a caretaker on site only the Ean and that'll be his parsonage home is that correct yes okay thank you that's all I need thank you I have no questions I just wanted to be officially on the record thank you thanks thank you thank you um and he's here for questions ultimately if there are questions okay all right rich I ask you the place your credentials on the record please would you do that yes certainly licensed engineer since 1977 I've appeared before this board since 1989 and I've uh done many site plans and subdivisions in how I own JKR engineering which specializes in private work in Mammoth Ocean County for subdivision sight and sight plans we'll accept your thank you Mr defac your office uh through you have prepared the site plan which is submitted to the board yes and um you also prepared the revised site plan that was recently sub committed correct okay would you describe for the board the from a from an engineering site plan point of view exactly what's being proposed you want to get into the change already or okay so General all right so in lock 48 and 49 of block 59.0 approximately 7 Acres of property at the corner of Georgia Tavern and Windler road is an existing residence about 836 Square ft small residence and within that residents the applicant is proposing to have religious services and an on-site Iman to live there as well as provide uh spiritual guidance to his congregation the proposed site is located closer than 75 ft to the streets and therefore we needed the the variant we don't comply with the SE backs as a conditional use in the zone we do have a parking lot the revised plan provides 75t setback to the parking lot where the earlier plan did not and we would have needed a variance or waiver from that setback the the site is proposing a gravel parking lot for nine Vehicles a paved entrance and concrete apron there's an existing apron at Windler Road and we have a paved handicap parking space near the existing handicap ramp which leads from grade up to the first floor of the building there is no curbing proposed no lighting proposed as all of the services take place during the day nothing at night there is a shed on the property which is proposed to be relocated to the back end of the parking lot where the trash can for the Iman will be placed inside the shed there's no major trash generator at the facility thex and we did testify last meeting there'll be no food preparation of any kind right so there is a kitchen which is part of the single family residence for the Iman but there'll be no food preparation or beverage preparation for anybody attending the prayer services that will not be uh used the County Board of Health is aware of that and made the stipulation in their approval that should anybody in the future use the kitchen for any food or beverage they would need reapprovals now there is no food prep needed the site is connected to the sanitary sewer I know the engineer had a question about whether it is or it isn't but it is we have a letter from the county with the date of the connection I I don't recall the date but there's a report with the date of connection and we need to verify with the Board of Health in the township that the septic system was filled in and removed from the site the site has public water and the other facilities has gas as as you can see in the photograph on the screen the side view of that building faces Windler road is proposed to put a sight sign to the left of the first window on the left so between the meter and the window there'll be a small sign pretty much at the bottom of the window it's like a 3ftx 3T wall mounted sign not illuminated that just has a street address and the name Turkish American religious foundation on it with the street address the proposal also and proposes Landscaping in the front yard of the building on both Georgia tavn Road and Windler Road and we've increased the amount of uh parking lot screening we did get a letter from uh Sherie about landscaping and we agree with her letter about adding some additional trees and varying the type of landscaping around the the dwelling and that's a August 8th L is that correct that's correct okay uh what about uh potential road dedications so this site has Frontage on the two streets and there was a road Improvement by the township I'm going to guess 15 20 years ago and at that time the township acquired an easement from this lot owner to install the improvements along Ong the street which basically was curb and sidewalk and some Road widening so the easement exists today and the edge of the easement is where a future rway line would be if it was to be dedicated to the township right now the sidewalk and curb lies within an easement for Road widening purposes Mr chair could I just jump in I'll just ask some pointed questions so yes so what what Mr Deo said is correct they did dedicate some easements on both frontages our circulation element was updated a couple years ago and the classification of Georgia Tavern actually increased the rightaway requirement so does the applic can have an issue providing the additional 5 foot easement along the front edge on Georgia Tavern no we prefer the easement though if that's what we would like to do is keep the easement and not dedicate the land yeah I mean I I know the town just paid both roads and put Cur in sidewalk so I don't foresee any improvements coming in the immediate future but it gives us the ability to do something if we need to in the future um regarding the parking uh they comply with what's required there's 28 spaces in the building which requires nine parking spaces they actually reduce the parking lot with the revised plans to show not having more uh they put bumper blocks in to make sure people aren't driving through the Ed spaces I had a comment in my letter I was just concerned about how the parking area on the western end kind of just like dead ends the grass area about that maybe potentially becoming an overflow and maybe the use increasing with the Apple can have an issue with maybe putting a fence or or some kind of barrier on the western end just to well yeah trees or trees right so the question is at the end of the nin space parking lot would there be a barricade or something to prevent future extension or future parking beyond what was on this plan the applicant spoke to me and what he'd like to do is have a I'd call it banked parking for those extra five spots to get back to the 14 not build them but if if the need develops we can put that temporary bumper up now where it is and in the future it would be on the plan he could just extend it for whatever the footage I think it's another three and three and three so that would be 27 ft longer Stone in the future so how about uh for the temporary just this post and rail fence at the limit post and rail fence works fine yeah and then if they want to expand it you can show it on the revised plan and they can come back and move the in the future I think to sher's point maybe if you show on a resolution compliance plans where the additional five spacers are going to go and maybe put some plantings at the end of it so that way you know it's not moving planting we can do it administratively fine so I'm sorry to interrupt but we don't know that the town's going to accept an easement right so we'll work with the no hold on a second you don't know today that they're going to accept an easement correct correct correct so if they require dedication then you need a variance and it's a D3 variance because it impacts the setbacks so we can't just wait to determine whether they're going to accept an easement or not you're going to have to provide testimony uh a D3 testimony on the setbacks assuming that it's going to be an easement because if they don't accept a variance and they require a dedicate or I'm sorry an easement and require a dedication then you are not going to be compliant on the setbacks and that's a D3 variant okay go Jen is that to set back to the parking lot is that what you're saying minimum set back from Street line 75 ft or two times the building height that's the building the building the current building that's going to be converted to a place of worship currently has a setback of 42.6 ft to Georgia Tavern and 30 9.9 to Windler if the board requires a RightWay dedication in lie of easement you're talking about 30 feet to Georgia Tavern and 31 feet to Windler both requiring a D3 variance so that requires D3 testimony so we can't just wait to decide what they're going to do so we're going to M when Mr Higgins comes up he'll deal with that we're going to present it in the alternatives that's fine I I just want to make sure we're clear the testimony needs to be provided you guys have to determine whether it's okay if it's an easement it's it's better but if they want the dedication then at least they have the determination that's fine so and then I'll just ask a couple more questions so um you are expanding the parking lot obviously you're saw one where there's one not I know you show on the plans that gravel is Storm War management but realistically over time that's going to get get all sued up so we the applicant have an issue with putting drywalls for the existing structure to mitigate for any runoff from the gravel parking area for the existing structure yeah correct for the house correct that's fine no problem um and then uh refuse So the plan indicates it's to be stored in the existing shed that's to be re relocated correct okay be household garbage for the Iman okay yeah and and just a for one thing Charlie the proposed banked parking plan will also show the entire parking lot slid back in case the town wants a dedication that extra footage so that the relocated parking lot would be outside of that 75 from the future RightWay line dedication yes so it would be installed on the western end of the what you show now exactly but the entire lot would slide to the West okay um and then uh grading right everything will be graded so it's not impacting neighboring properties that's correct all right and then you said no site lightings proposed right so there's no need for shielding or anything like that correct okay uh and you have an Loi pending for the delineation that's shown on the plan and but you're not proposing anything in the immediate vicinity of that nowhere near the Wetland line or Wetland buffer and then you talked about the existing septic system has been abandoned or it's in the process of being abandoned it's been abandoned it's this site is connected to the Sewer okay we need to find the person who witnessed the septic being filled in and the tank being collapsed that we don't have it yet but it was done so you'll get board of health certificate okay the Board of Health said they think how Plumbing inspected it they were going back and forth of who saw it but I think it's on record somewhere but yes we have to get Bo the hell side yeah gotcha yeah and then um uh see if I have anything else in here I think that's all I have from engineering perspective all theend Chim in so are you going to talk about the buffer or is Mr Higgins you should describe it I can describe the buffer I mean I know that your perspective was that the buffer only applies to the developed portion that's not how the buffer no that I understand I do understand that so all I was pointing out was we have about a half an acre of sight disturbance on a 7 Acre Site the ordinance you are definitely the people in the backround cannot here you have to look forward and talking to the microphone okay there's about half an acre of site disturbance and the site area is 7 Acres the rest of the site is wooded which is going to be remaining wooded it's Wetlands it's buffers so but you still need relief we need Rel from the buffer right from the buffer yes so let's talk about that we're planning to put an evergreen buffer on the Georgia Tavern roadside and we'll increase that according to sher's report we're going to buffer the parking lot with at least three foot high evergreen shrubs so that it's shielded from the view of both roadways right but you still don't comply right we don't comply right we didn't we didn't plan to put a burm between the the street and the building or the between the street in the parking lot and so my recommendation is that we let Jim Higgins talk about this because is they do not comply with our buffer requirements it needs relief and so he should probably discuss it as part of his testimony with respect to the variance relief yes like the right so that's that would be my recommendation um anything else um I don't what on a typical do you have any or at the end of a service do you have any kind of like uh gathering with food or anything like that any kind of events where like typical household garbage containers aren't going to be enough to contain what you're generating the Ean I mean the uh witness testified last meeting just prayer services and and visiting the IMA and no no no parties or got and so the residential containers will be in the shed at all times until they're taken out and then brought back in we're not going to be all over the place that's okay um I have one follow-up question since you covered your report any other technical comments contained within the professional reports that relate to engineering um that we didn't cover tonight you would agree as a condition of approval to comply with yes okay and a the dryw that you mentioned that's all we have of the engineer all board members any questions for the engineer if I could Mr chairman U Mr DeFalco you said there's no parking lot lighting is that correct that's correct is there Lighting on the side of the building into the parking lot area uh because if I'm looking at this diagram correctly from the furthest parking space to the building you're looking at about 60 feet plus that if it's dark and it gets dark in the winter here early yeah the the witness testified that um the services are Friday from 12: to 3 and Sunday from 10: to 1 that's the only formal Services otherwise there someone might visit the Ean at night and just park there but otherwise that's the only formal activity right formal as of right now correct I was just looking ahead because I think at the last minute we talked Le meeting we talked about possibly going up to 28 congregants correct as you know a positive thing that we'd like to see encourage there I'm thinking with additional congregants or even the existing congregants you want to have some form of lighting coming out of that parking lot and inclement weather Darkness Etc and I think it should be addressed somehow it might be like I don't even know this um we could certainly agree to work with the board professionals come up with a a minimal lighting plant to at least cover that fair enough we don't want to overly lit parking lot right I just don't think having nothing is is the appropriate response for this okay thank you Mr chairman you're welcome I actually have a a just a question not completely related to the engineer here but uh if they ever decide and I think I know the answer to this to go into that other lot they'd have to come back to us correct okay and our plan is actually to come back with a build real building back there at some point right an interim step but yes all right I just wanted to make sure I had that in my head thank you Mr Mars I'm good Mr barell yeah I mean did we address the uh the entrance location I know uh Miss beam has it on her report um about collector Road vers um was it Georgia taverns a collector road we didn't address I can talk and um we did not address that versus Windler right we didn't discuss it but we can go right so so presently there is a driveway curb cut on Windler Road there's actually two on this site from my experience being I I don't live too far from this place the the speed limit on Georgia Tavern is higher than it is on Windler stop condition on Windler slows people down so that as they approach the intersection they're going not to 40 m hour but they're approaching a sto condition whereas on Georgia Tavern they're running to Route 9 and it's a higher speed Road except for the fact that people are going to turn onto Windler off of Georg Tavern Road and Bam your driveway is going to be there so it's not the safest condition at all all okay so I I agree I I think that that should definitely be evaluated because I think it'd be safer to go out to Georgia Tavern because you'd have to wait for a gap in the traffic you come out onto Windler someone's coming off of Georgia Tavern they're going to slam right into somebody because Windler is a super cut through right to to Oakland Road that goes to Herbertsville that goes down to to Lakewood it's it's a cut through and it and people travel high speeds they're going to come off toward the tavern make that right slam on the gas and it's not like I get it on paper it looks like the safer condition but it's probably not the safer condition in this particular instance agree 100% so Mr Falco is that is that is that something that can be accomplished without significant revisions to the plan we could come in off Georgia Tavern okay so that's we'll leave that to the board whatever the board prefers we would do we'd have to do no there's not a curb cover we'd have to close the old ones and put a new carb cut yes Charlie yeah what do you yeah I mean it can be done it's just you know obviously uh more costly but that's not something we weigh um you know I think having a driveway approaching an intersection is probably a little bit better than wrapping around a curb so like you know the sight layout's going to have to change a little bit you know they're going to have to show the driveway coming through there might be a tree or two that needs to get taken out on Georgia Tavern if that's where the board wants it but um you know I would just say any of our recommendations about like split rail fence and Landscaping to kind of mitigate any future unintended expansion you know we just have to make sure that that's still captured and any uh approval to make sure that's you know staying how it is have to take consideration to where the old septic was that's all filled in you yeah it's filled in so that's entirely up to the board and board professionals how you want to handle that I've just got one more thing I did speak to the uh Fire Marshall and he's okay with the plan with with he did a revised letter I think it's now has three comments so we're in the same page and he basically signed off on the plan okay go ahead speaking of the uh fire Bureau they have a automatic fire laun system may be required pending uh windowless basement status and uniform construction code that's the old letter that's the old letter mhm we wer in Fr Thursday of last week what was that Thursday of last week it's a new letter that just came out that that comment was taken off with the original basement okay it's it wasn't given to us as an updated one so um and then understood that the building is required to be inspected annually yes and the first comment was revised his answer was we're going to post no parking signage throughout the site in Li of striping because of the gravel surface and he's going to place the number and location of the signs and no combustible landscaping mulch within 18 inches correct you said we could use rubber mulch but not wood mulch no rubber mulch I'd rather use you know Stone than rubber mulch yeah we could use stones but no wood mulch so you're not going to do rubber or wood within I think it's 3 ft of the building building or 2T whatever Theo says 18 in well you can't have wood within 18 in right so we'll do stones and then we could do wood beyond that that's all I have for now all right Mr stary we'll hear Mr Higgins then Mr Higgins thanks don't need this good evening do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth the heal you God I do state your name for the record spell your last please James W Higgins hi GG i ns Jim we're seeking to have you qualified as a professional planner would you place your credentials on record I am a licensed professional planner in the state I've been licensed for over 40 years credential all right Jim um um you you've heard U the testimony from Mr um Mr DeFalco you understand the variance relief that's required because it's a conditional use and we do not meet all the conditions can you place on the record the proofs to support that variance relief and also the buffer variance in this yeah yeah I can very very easily I think I can do that the uh D3 variance is different than a D1 variance the the courts have said that the proofs for D3 variant since the use is permitted it's almost like looking at the negative impact and not looking at the positive reasons because the negative becomes the positive in this instance and uh you have to look at the intent of the ordinance and creating the standards for the for the conditional use and quite frankly when you look at the ordinance and you look at the standards that are being required it's clear that the ordinance was geared towards much more intensive uses than what is being proposed here this is a a very low intensity use it's basically taking exist small existing residence using a portion of it as the house of worship and a portion of it as a residence which would be the Aman's residence uh so when you look for example at the minimum setback from the street of the building that's first of all it's an existing condition it can't reasonably be changed and the fact that it's such a low intensity use whether the building is set back 42.6 fet from Georgia Tavern Road and 39.9 ft from Windler at or if the dedication is made rather than an easement then that would be reduced to 31 30 feet from Georgia Tavern Road and 31 feet from Windler again those are existing conditions and it's not going to change anything that exists right now and the likelihood of either of those roads being further expanded physically is it's very unlikely it's possible but it's very unlikely but you do have just a very low intensity use and it's not like a large building that would have a large congregation in it with a very large parking lot that would have an impact on the roads and the surrounding area you have a small building and a small parking lot line spaces maybe sometime in the future expanded to 14 but still it's not a 50 space lot or 100 space lot or a 200 space lot and that's really what the ordinance is geared towards in terms of the size of the structure in terms of the setbacks again you have a very small structure and the setbacks are geared towards scale and geared towards a much larger structure than what exists on the site at this time uh with regard to the variants for the off street parking and the and the buffering for the off street parking again it's a very small parking lot it's going to be buffered appropriately it doesn't quite meet the ordinance requirement for a buffer but again it's it's still going to be buffer and screened from view from the road so it won't be readily visible and the the times that that would be occupied are very limited I think it's two days a week for like a three- hour period each day so there wasn't going to be any substantial negative impact and again the site can support the use despite the need for that deviation um and then the final one is that the uh location on a collector or arterior road as shown on the master plan and and again what's being proposed what yeah now moving yeah we we are so we're going to move that so that that goes away so it's only those two deviations uh from the uh conditional use requirements and again when I look at this I think the site can clearly accommodate the use despite the need for those deviations because of the fact it's a very low intensity use both in terms of the the amount of time that's being spent on the site for the use and the the number of congregants and the number of parking spases uh with regard to the overall buffer requirement in the ordinance the uh 50t buffer is required the applicant is proposing to provide a 50-foot buffer in most areas and to work with the staff as far as increasing Landscaping in that buffer area to be satisfactory uh there are some areas where structures are in the buffer and that can't be avoided so well I'm going to stop you right there what structures are in the buffer currently because we have required applicants in the past to remove accessory structures that are in the buffer so what what structures are in the buffer the the structure is is the residence is is the building the principal building along the street that's it that's within 50 ft that's it there are no accessory structures in the buffer area the shed we're relocating so that won't be yeah so that's going to be removed relocated relocated so that it's not in the buffer area I mean s you've been here multiple times as H as has Jim we don't Grant this relief like easily so and if we were building a new building we wouldn't even even ask for I mean we've had applicants that come have come here with existing structures and still not granted that relief so this is a this is a I think Jim you're going to need to do a little bit more on testimony because we do not Grant relief for buffer for the buffer encroachment even for existing structures say it's there it is going to stay there and that's it is what it is you're going to have to dig a Little Deeper cuz and and I also want to caution you a single family house and a house of worship is not the same intensity so you're going to have to do a little bit more on your testimony to justify that relief that's fine yeah the the buffer relief that's required is along the streets it's not adjacent to residential uses that's the properties I think that is the point though no it's not the point we have required buffers as this board has we've required that buffer across route nine so this is a lot more like intense than across two lanes of traffic a barrier two lanes of traffic a shoulder and Route n we've required this buffer across route N9 so I I you're going to need to dig deeper I'm sorry I mean I think what Jen is saying is you know you without knocking down the structure you can't change the location of the structure right but you certainly have the ability to provide more Landscaping plantings to uh provide that buffer and to mitigate the change in the use from a residential structure to something nonresidential well that is what I was saying is that the applicant is willing to work with the professionals the board's profession professionals to provide that adequate buffering because you can't change the distance but you can increase the intensity of the buffering in terms of the number of plant materials a possibility of a berm in that area and that's exactly what I was saying and maybe it was misinterpreted when I said that but the applicant is it's not on the plan now but the applicant is willing to work with the professionals to provide an adequate buffer along the street line since the building cannot reasonably be used be moved and we did um and Miss Sherie did do a report with landscape suggestions which we agreed to comply with but we also stipulate that if there's additional um buffering to mitigate the lack of a buffer we certainly work with the board professionals Jen I mean I get it but the removal of that back lot for the quote unquote future house of worship for this I understand that they're looking to like incrementally go that route but I I I'm struggling with the testimony I don't agree that going from a single family house to a house of worship is is a DI Minimus increase in intensity even at like when you have a h like a single family house you're talking about four five six residents you have a a house of worship there's a lot more people coming to this to this location so I don't agree that it's dominous or like like I I I am struggling with what's been presented I don't disagree with what they're proposing I'm just struggling with the testimony that I've been provided and then on top of which we know that lot in the back that was removed from the application is ultimately when it gets to a certain point going to become uh a house of worship which I have no problem with but like at what point so are we talking about 12 people are we talking about 30 people because 30 people coming to a single family house is different from a single family house so I don't understand it and I have not been provided the information to be comfortable with it we were told 12 to 14 during the first testimony I I get it so that's what I'm asking no we were we said that's currently but it would be up to 28 Max at the peak is what the testony is so 38 28 28 I'm sorry so I'm Sor I apologize and and we can't there's no prediction on if and when that back will ever be developed because the congregation may not grow they may not raise the money this is this is what they're going to live with until such time as they can with it so I get that so my concern is what we've been provided testimony wise is that it's di Minimus um I have to object to that because I never said that and I never compared what's being proposed here to a single family residence I compared what's being proposed here to what was anticipated by the ordinance for a conditional use for a house of worship and that it's much less intensive than a TR traditional house of worship it's definitely more intensive than a single family and I never never meant to insinuate that and I never said that I I apologize Jim so my concern is is that the relief on the buffering which I get the house is where it's at right but that's a single family house you bring 28 congregants that's more intense than a single family house so I'm not saying that there's not justification I'm just saying that I just need a little bit more so I agree with Charlie so if we can increase the buffering like the the intensification of the buffer Landscaping cuz I am not asking them to take down the building that's crazy right so the building is where it is but if we can increase the landscaping and honestly I'm more concerned about the Windler side than the Georgia t side because and we're going to change that Ingress egress corre that side right so if they can work with Sher to make sure that we're significantly buffered and whatever parking they're proposing is significantly buffered I'm not saying that like I'm not opposing it I'm just saying that they need a little bit more to make sure that this is not going to be there's not going to be a negative impact on the surrounding single family homes and honestly I've driven past this this site a million times I didn't even know it was there so I'm not saying they're they're a negative impact but to bring 30 people for whatever however long let's just increase the buffering and make sure that it's not going to be a negative impact that's I agree with Charlie we agree and Mr I guess Mr Higgins to close the loop on that from a planning point of view if the buffering is adequate to to to clearly buffer this from the public would that help in supporting the variance relief that you saw absolutely as long as it's not in the side triangle course that's right absolutely shouldn't be in they I was just about to ask that yeah that's why I said it the applicant should work with the board's professionals because the engineers should also be involved and I think Jen should be involved also looking at it and Sher I mean Sherry critical component here yeah Dar very I I I meant in addition to Sher yes we have no issue Mr chair M Bo we're complying other than that I have no exception to what he's saying but I just want to make sure that it's adequately screened to make sure it's not going to be an impact to the neighbors got it we agree Mr Higgins yes do you have more nope I think that's it board members do you have any questions from Mr Higgins just getting back to the parking spaces um so we're down we went from 14 to 9 and and nine parking spaces is good for like what's that formula for how many people 28 28 seats the nine parking spaces is adequate according to your ordinance but the applicant has said he would like to sometime in the future expand it to 14 if it's NE if necessary okay and we are still with the 20 23 prayer spaces as per of plans I'm sorry the what they call prayer spaces I'm I'm not I'm sorry I'm not familiar with the Muslim um 28 I think was the number there was on the plans there's 23 prayer spaces and then there was one two three four five but we said the assist prayer room is no longer going to be that's correct that's correct so those those prayer spaces are being taken away they yes they would put if if there's if there's going to be 28 people praying they're all going to pray in that main room so there'll be 28 spaces 2 spaces are on the plan 28 spaces 20 includes the yeah so sisters all they did was they had 23 in the main room and they had five and what was formerly the caretaker they took those five and moved them into the main room so oh so now so it will be 20 okay all right thank you okay go ahead Mr Martins I'm gonna make a motion to open the public okay I second that all right I at this time the chairman has opened the hearing up for members of the public for any questions or comments regarding this application anyone wishing to do so please come up use the podium you'll have to give your name and address the other side of the building how do you have addresses not seeing anyone from public motion to close got a motion second we got a second I we're closed for Public public portion of this hearing is now closed okay Andy I'm sure you advise the uh you know there's only six of us right so yes we understand M alery yeah Mr chair thank you um we uh would like to proceed with the vote uh We've again as Mr Higgins indicates it's conditional use not a D1 use variance relief we believe that now that we've agreed to address all the comments of the board professional um we have mitigated any impact that the D3 relief requires and we request that the board Grant the approval subject to all of those conditions all right let me see how the board is doing here um do we want to have seven you think we should do we need seven we should okay they think that we should have seven understood okay so when's the next meeting um I our next meeting is August 26th which is two weeks from tonight I'm going to be away after that it's September the 9th Mr alfery yes can we hear from Mr sodic one more time a board member has a uh question hi hi thanks for coming thanks for coming up again um I think last time you said in testimony there there will be no outdoor activities at all correct yes okay um currently is is the property being used as a House of Prayer is it I mean we're not using it right now uh we were told not to use it until we show up become before you so that's what we're here for okay hope we can get it only C I just I I try to um get an understanding of an application um especially when I don't understand and you know the Muslim religion so I try to teach myself some things um so I went on to you you have a Facebook page correct yes yes so on that Facebook page it appears that is is a um pra of place of prayer right now no we don't have it okay so put it out there but no we don't it's your official have you used it previously and you were told St we did and they they were told by the township to stop I didn't okay okay that's that's what I was asking because in April of 2023 you you did have an outdoor event that was um uh promoted as a barbecue a picnic and a place where children can come and play soccer on the bigger field well they had it at for Windler I know but they're all connected that from the back it opens into the bigger field oh so there's a field back there yeah we have a soccer field on the field I put that on there 30 years ago okay so it's still there no there's no activities outdoor activities on the small property where the houses okay so any any activities it would be already in a place that already is established yes to hold such an event oh it's AIG big blood okay thank you I appreciate that thank you is there separate parking for the soccer field no it's so huge that we don't use it as well like if we have picnics once a year or twice people go and park on the grass it's gated so okay they go through the gates we close the gates it's and so they're not going through the existing property no no it's separated from it it's probably 500 ft away from this uh small building okay with a separate entrance separate entrance okay it's gated area thank you if the next meeting I'm sorry any other question thank thank you if the next meeting is only for a vote is that what we're going to do Mr chair no testimony I could have someone come and cover it because if it's if it's only a vote that's all it'll be yes that's all it everything's concluded Mr chairman yes I mean unless anyone has questions they want somebody to come back I mean when when I first got this uh property I mean a lot of the issues will we buttoned up by then that we've left open here don't on professionals that's station yeah the only thing is Jose is not going to be so mean that we would all have to be Jose will not be here on the 26th yeah the 26 won't my whole family goes away I was going to send my son here but he's coming with me so we whatever the meeting is after that September 9th if that's okay with the board September 9th works okay yes and that's for a vote only okay so anyone that's here for case number ba2 24- 06 Turkish American religious Foundation this application is being carried to September 9th with no further notice expiration date September 25th 2024 good have revised plans to us before that we're not going to provide testimony so it's up to I'm just saying like it be res compliance anyway assuming we get approved um we'll talk about that thank you thank you s good night good night good night hey s it's one less variance yeah you're you are but you're not because if you well you're getting carried yes you would be because I was going to say if somebody else gets carried they go ahead of you but if you carry tonight you it's up to you okay I think it's all right he said he only say multiple I think it's right bye ni sh you're leaving I don't think that's sneaking she's leaving in plain sight okay up in front of the board case number ba 23-24 Christopher cap sasus this is a bulk variant approval to construct a single family dwelling with septic on an undersized lot application of Christopher caps sasus as applicant and owner seeking both variants approval to construct a single family dwelling with septic system on an undersigned lot in A2 Zone the applicant also proposes an Associated driveway private well dryw septic system concrete walk and covered patio on premises known as block 183 lot 62 555 Brickyard Road this application was partially heard on May 20th 2024 when it was carried to August 12th 2024 with no further notice expiration date August 31 2024 sir good evening chair or uh excuse me before you proceed uh I just wanted to let you know I did CER I can certify I saw the video right because I was not technically at the meeting so I have to sign anything you do just one second [Applause] [Applause] okay sir thank you thank you Kevin unig on behalf of the applicant with unig LOM FR kimman uh sitting next to me is Mr uh Wilder with Morgan engineering um we did testify at the last hearing on May 20th so we'll keep our comments brief tonight and I'll turn it over Wilder good evening um would you like to swear me in again or no the witness was sworn and he was qualified Charlie you got this one right sure okay I mean is it changes for us Mr absolutely and and I even prepared an exhibit uh for this evening if you don't mind pulling up exhibit a15 which is a house comparison exhibit the colors are not quite as Vivid as I was hoping um but effectively what I've done here is I've overlaid the house that was proposed in May of this year before the board and then what we're proposing here this evening so again it's a little bit tough to see and I apologize I should have used more contrasting colors but this line is a red line and that represents the home that was previously presented to this board and the blue line which for almost all intents and purposes is inside the red line is what we're proposing here this evening which is a smaller footprint and a slightly smaller home so do you comply with the coverage we do not we still need a building coverage and impervious coverage variant but we have reduce the coverages and and I'll summarize all the all the changes that we've made um so the the most significant change change was related to the side yard setback previously we were at 20.6 FT on this side and if you recall there's a detention Basin in the rear of us and because of the shape of the property the most uh nearest resident is really to the north over here on lot on lot 6 D3 so we now comply with the side yard set setback we are providing a 30 foot side yard setback to the north so we've completely eliminated that variance the rear yard setback was increased slightly it was increased from 22.4 ft to 23.1 Ft so we slightly lessen the variance but again I'll note that to the to the east of us is a detention base in line um the building coverage was reduced from 16.3% to 12.7% and the impervious coverage was reduced from 22.4% to 18.2% and effectively all the changes result are a function of the house being reduced in size the driveway and the covered porch are relatively the same it the reduction in the size of the house you may remember that when we were here before uh we were talking about a house that had 3,400 sare ft of livable space that is no longer The Proposal The Proposal is for slightly over 2600 sare feet of space um there is a basement which is going to be your typical basement it's not to have bedrooms or anything like that it's not designed for that and on the second floor there is some attic space proposed just provide some element of storage the reason we have that sort of Unfinished attic space that's accessible is we realize that we are asking for a building coverage and impervious coverage variance so at this point we're not proposing any accessory structures we want to use the proposed garage as well as that that unfinished attic on the second story as the real storage for this property not to further increase our building or impervious coverage some additional uh plan changes that we've made if you don't mind going to the revised variance plan which is a13 [Applause] what's what's the name of the file again I'm sorry 813 the revised variance plan it's a variance and septic design plans two sheet um so this is again the revised arance plan with a slightly smaller home and this has all the engineering detail the septic the dryw ETC um so other changes that were made that don't necessarily impact any of the uh bulk requirements or sea are we shifted the septic system farther to the South so what that allowed us to do is actually uh I understand that this board is always very sensitive to septics in the front yard um by having the septic further from the house we have more room to grade so that we can ensure that the septic system is is effectively level with the surrounding grade this will not be a mounded system the soils here are exceptional soils with very deep groundwater the the the septic being quot unquote in the front yard will have no visual impact on this property so wait a minute is that not in the front yard it is in the front yard what I'm saying is that the septic system the concern that I've had when I've been before this board before is the septic systems that are mounded up that detract from the Aesthetics of a neighborhood this will that will not be the case here so do we have the grading plan to show that do we have it he's got um another change that we've made if you don't mind going back to the other view um previously the drywell was slightly closer to lot 63 when we pulled the house further to the South I was able to pull the drywell further from that adjacent property um to again we're really at this point maintaining the existing elevations and grades on that common property line to the north um one of the one of Mr cun's comments were that we eliminated the Swale there sort of already is an existing Swale on that side of the property and by shifting everything to the South we're able to preserve some of that land so we can accentuate the Swale or my intent is really to reduce our limited disturbance to the north to prevent any you know impacts onto that adjacent property because again that is the most uh the nearest adjacent homeowner Charing and yeah so I don't take exception with any of the representations that I've made so far I think you know what stopped this application the first time they were before the board was concerns about the scale of the development you know uh in Rel relation to you know adjacent developments and what's already in the neighborhood the neighbor the neighbors yeah cor correct so uh a couple things that I want to point out Mr Wilder applicant's proposing a full basement for the entirety of the structure that's correct so the location of the septic system you know uh there's a different requirement whether there's a slab on grade versus a basement if there's a slab on grade the septic system could be closer to the uh subject properties dwelling and then further away from the neighboring property so that's something I want to point out for the board's consideration and you heard Mr Wilder say they reduce the footprint or the liveable area for the dwelling from 3,400 ft² to just over 2600 ft you know I went on the MLS and looked at the properties in proximity here you've got to the I believe it's I want to say the north here you got 6 40163 and then to the South 60102 6102 the 60101 I apologize so I'll just in that order the liable area on the tax records you've got uh 6401 a three-bedroom with just under 1500 F feet of liable area 63 you've got a three-bedroom with just under 1,800 feet liveable area 60102 a 4bedroom just over 2500 square ft and then 6101 four bedroom just just over 2200 ft so you know they're proposing a four bedroom you've got a mix of three and four bedrooms but you know you're proposing larger than any of the four other structures that are immediately adjacent to you and you're asking for building coverage and lot coverage variants exactly so I just want to give the board that context okay I only had one other element to point out on the revised plan if you don't mind zooming back to the design um one other benefit with us shifting everything to the South is you'll notice the adjacent property to the north their driveway is very in very close proximity to that common property line by shifting everything to the South we just provided a little bit more separation between the two driveways not necessarily that it was an issue before but one benefit to shifting everything to the South um so I just wanted to that that sort of gives a overall summary of the changes that we've made um to the design so Mr chairman I would recommend that once again the applicant understand the lot coverage and building coverage requirement in the zone you're in a six acre zone or two acre zone I'm I apologize and you're what 20 little less than 20,000 Square F feet the homes immediately around you are less than what you're proposing and many of those lots are compliant in area so I don't really know how you're going to justify the the compliance I mean we'll listen to the testimony but I'm here to tell you that it's a it's an uphill climb for you to to justify the the building coverage and the lot coverage when the other surrounding properties the building Footprints are less than what you're proposing so I I just I think you guys should take it take closer look I know this is the second time you've back here but at the end of the day you're you need relief for a number of things including the area for the septic so I think that that needs to be Revisited honestly I appreciate certainly Miss be's comments and the board was gracious enough last time to allow us a little bit of a recess to talk with our client um and we did have quite a quite a back and forth in dialogue with the board um I tried to to get you guys to give me a number you certainly weren't willing to give me a number um as much as I I pushed and pulled um but what we what we provided uh we thought providing a four-bedroom home was important um there there certainly our you know adjacent structures that are three bedrooms um new construction we thought providing a four a fourth bedroom was important um so and the fourth bedroom in some respects is sort of the driving force behind the size of the home um and the property is very uniquely shaped um so what we've tried to do is select a house that sort of has as you'll notice um has multiple jogs that really follows the shape of the property um this is not a you know a quotequote custom home or we we can sort of uh adjust it in the identical shape of the property so what we've tried to do is propose something that we think is appropriate for the area but also provides uh new home construction consistent with the standards um if the board certainly still has issues with the size of the home um I'm certainly I'm certainly not opining on the number of bedrooms you're perfectly entitled to a four-bedroom home but the coverage continues to be an issue so I I would maybe advise the chairman maybe to take a little bit of a recess allow them to I didn't we talk about the the covered porch at the time well that goes to the coverage the total impervious coverage the but the building coverage is also in excess but barely so we like can we give them a minute to like discuss it you're barely over barely and certainly I I would appreciate a quick recess um but I will indicate that we did talk about the covered PCH at the last meeting and that was something that we said you know we don't necessarily need them we can get back but several members of the board thought it was an aesthetic benefit to that considering you have an undersized lot and you may not have a lot of room for accessory structures so we can certainly have a quick conversation with our client um the porch is the covered porch is something that we we could reasonably get rid of I don't think it I think the home the size of the home the living space is more important than that covered porch um but it just wanted to relay that yeah so to give the board some clarity right so they I think building coverage are 12.7% uh proposed or 12 maximum of 12% is permitted so that 7% equates to like 130 ft that cover porch is around 260 ft that's included in the building coverage calculation so that would eliminate that variance that eliminates that variance they're over 3% on impervious coverage that roughly is around 500 sare fet plus or minus in that range so you're taking out another 260 square fet so that it'll eliminate the building it won't completely eliminate the impervious coverage but you know certainly is an improvement more conforming with the okay and then we could open up to public can see what the public think as well all right let's take five EA the board will now take a recess they'll be back at 8:25 okay I appreciate that being afforded that opportunity U if we eliminate the covered porch on the south side of the home we would reduce our building coverage to 11.3% so we'd be a conforming application with respect to building coverage we have no issue with that um there's also the ability for us to actually even slightly narrow our driveway right now the driveway is a little bit oversized at 21.3 FT wide we can narrow it and still be consistent with the residential site Improvement standards by eliminating the porch and slightly narrowing the driveway we can reduce our impervious coverage to 16.1% we would still be 1.1% over the impervious coverage um and that equates to about 205 Square ft um which again it's still a variance but uh I would say it's a DI Minimus exceedence I'm not sure Mr would agree with no I I think that's fair that's fair I think that's fair yes just to clarify when you say narrow the driveway what's the width your proposing right now it's 21.3 and it would go down to 18t 18t okay I think that's fair yeah that's just want to make sure two okay board members do we have any questions for this applicant no can we open it to public then yes we all done yeah yes the board have questions then we have a motion open to public public we got a second second all in favor ien at this time the chairman has opened this hearing up for members of the public that have questions or comments regarding this application if so please step up to the podium give your name and address and be sworn in Andy do you swear the testimony you give will be the truthful truth nothing but to I do please state your name for the record and give your address my name is Todd weiner my address is 549 Brickyard Road similar to the to the list you had I have the 12 closest houses to that lot of these 12 closest houses the largest house is 2300 square ft that sits on two acres out of these 12 houses eight of them are under 2,000 square ft this is the smallest lot looking to build the biggest house it's not a reasonable request it doesn't make sense it doesn't fit into the neighborhood we we live in the house suburbs because we we love it we want a little distance between ourselves and our neighbors we don't want to be a city and build on top of each other that's all I have to say thank you [Applause] sir good evening uh Dan delti live at 557 so the I'm sorry you s the Tes you give will be the truth hold truth nothing but the truth help you out yes sir okay St your name and your address Dan delti I live at the towards the left at 557 um last time we spoke going from 700 Square ft to a little over 3,000 I appreciate them shrinking the lot I'll be the first to say I'm all four building a house tired of looking at a hole in the ground but they went from 20t to 30 feet from my property line where the previous house was I don't know the exact distance but it was close to 50 I'm just looking for little privacy for myself and my family um as well as the water retention the dryw and the air conditioner units are on that side so not only will I hear whoever is living there their conversations but their AC units and their water will be draining into my property so go ahead sure um so I mean first from a side setback standpoint we're compliant with the required side your set back to Mr dti's property um so from a privacy standpoint we are consistent with ordinance even though we are substantially under side Zone from a setback standpoint um as it relates to storm water runoff we're not allowed to discharge any runoff storm R towards Mr delegat's property and in fact we have a drive will just to prevent that um if the concerns are with the AC units on these Northern side of the property we can very easily flip them to the Eastern side of the property towards the detention Basin um we have no issue with that and then at that point the AC units themselves would meet the principal building setback to the sidey yard um so the changes that we made to this plan were in an effort to minimize the impact to the nearest property owner which happens to be Mr delti and by doing by moving everything 10 feet to the South I think we've accomplished that do that Mr delti I'm sorry does that answer your question yes it still doesn't take away the fact this house is pretty large they advised the last meeting that they would go from four to three bedrooms based on the of the board I understand that wasn't done but all I'm asking for is privacy that's it and you could see my driveway which I can't move I can't move my driveway or my house over so want to be able to enjoy my yard without listening to conversations right next door so Mr Wilder I understand that you you meet the side yard setback so regardless of the size of the house it could be a tht house in the same location you understand that correct Mr Wilder can you stipulate on behalf of the applicant that they would put a fence and some kind of landscaping along the along the property line to provide additional like privacy and buffering we have no issue with that um I my recommendation would be would be Landscaping if the board would rather have a fence well will install that along the I mean I would ask what the what what would you prefer sir uh I mean there a house is going to go here so what would would you prefer a fence want the house I understand so would you prefer a fence or just a fence you want a white vinyl fence 6 feet high yeah that would okay so that's what I think we should recommend we have no issue with that he's right next door those those are arms yes is that your property yes sir so is go pretty tall right yes and we went over this the last time but with now no land or nothing there a lot of deer are coming and eating so tomorrow they could be gone that white fence so I think a fence would probably be helpful 6 foot vinyl fence just don't don't extend it into the front yard setback correct does that help yes sir okay thank you thank you to talk Sheila gamine  PE for the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the TRU you got state your name and your address please Sheila gamine 548 Brickyard Road could you just spell your last name for me yes g e l s o m i n e perfect thank you and Sheila is with the EI yes I'm across the street from this property been there oh God 31 years 35 so I'm the corner piece so you got my corner there um this whole new development came in after we bought across the street was Betty She had a house that was about 736 square feet the owners at one time decided that you know maybe we'll put a second story on that would increase it now you're going from 736 foot house to a 2600 squ foot house it's going to be huge I don't know if you've driven by this property but it's a pizza slice it's not very big it backs up to a uh detention Pond now my question is if he's meeting the requirements of this area within the proposed area for septic well and house he is okay my property is two lots I'm lot n and lot 9.01 so that side piece you see there well we bought the house we were told that was an unbuildable lot that we could never put anything on there the only thing we could do was join it to our piece of property which my mother strongly recommended but we didn't do it we kept it separate now are you telling me that I will be able to do the same thing no because you because you're because the lots are under sized and under common ownership so they they join by I can sell separately so at the end of the day you you have two undersized Lots under the same ownership there is statute that makes them join independently this is an independent lot so it has nothing to do with it it's but if you want to come back here and do a very no I come for variant to build on an undersized lot you're more than welcome but at the end of the day it's an undersized lot and they're under common ownership currently so I don't know why they haven't joined to be honest they're on the same tax line because I came years ago and discussed N9 and 9.01 if they're under the same ownership and they're but there they're undiz they would right I'm going to suggest we don't talk about a hypothetical application that Sheila has yeah like it's not really appropriate but you could certainly explain whatever circumstances you want about your view of the application right I was just going moving forward would I be able to do the same thing and you're telling me I cannot so you can come for a variance you just told me I couldn't because it was the same ownership so just to clarify again right so you don't have any pending application for anything with the municipality so like we can't comment on some no I do not cuz I was told it's an un buildable a lot yeah yeah so if you I would recommend you engage your own engineer you can certainly I don't want to do that I'm just saying is there potential let's say if we sell the house there's somebody that could buy the place and do what he to do whatever property due diligence they would need to do as part of obtaining that property to figure out whether or not they could build on it like but if he's under the what you call he's now Chris is under he's under the lot size for the house he's meeting all the requirements for this he's here for Avance because the lot is undersized right as part of that he needs 40,000 sare feet because the lot's not surface Bice septic which that's one the variances that they need they need the building and the lock coverage that you've heard them provide testimony they're reducing removeing in the porch so they're going to now comply with the building coverage they just need an impervious coverage variance what about the septic because we are always told you need an so so as a condition of any board approval right we don't have purview on the septic system as far as approving it we can see it on the plan so we can see the impact of development ultimately they have to get a mama County Board of Health approval for that septic system they got to get test pits that are going to be witnessed by Board of Health they're going to have to satisfy all separation requirements the property lines the J be turned down that's a condition of the approval if they can't get mamouth County Board of Health approval they would have to return back to this board and they'd have to run sanitary sewer to the site so oh that that's not going to happen it's like I said it's that's an outside agency approval they wouldn't be able to build on L until they obtain M with County Board Health approval for that septic system okay so it's now up to the mammoth County Septic System it's not up to you we cannot deny deny an application for not having an outside agency approval at the time of them hearing with the Ford we can make it a condition to the approval okay all right thank you thank you ma'am this is gathering a lot of attention it's like a warehouse M Andy you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do please stay your name for the record and provides your SAA and I live on 559 which is the house right next door to Danny but we own the house we own Danny's house and we put um the additions on and we were told we couldn't build out or towards his house forward or backwards because of the property because of the um size of the property so I'm just saying that how does that Charlie one go for one and not the other so I don't know which property you're speaking of you you own lot 6401 Danny's so the gentleman that came up previously so you don't own it anymore and he's the owner of that property and what was the representation that you made no I'm just saying that we built two additions on that house we weren't allowed to go forward backward sideways only did you come to a board or just go to the township for permit um I it was way back I don't know how long ago that yeah so so if you were to propose something thing that was completely conforming with the ordinance right you can go and get a zoning permit and get a plot plant to build it if you were exacerbating a setback or impervious coverage right you would be at the board which is where they're here now to seek relief of the lot area and now in prvious coverage so so Danny could do that too though right he would have to file an application come come to the board so but like I said that's a hypothetical that's not what we're considering as no I know that yeah okay thank you okay anyone else from the public [Applause] you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you got I do please state your name for the record and provide your address Sal gor julo 10 Red Fox Road free hold slow good we're good sir all right I live on the street directly behind that house I'm four houses from this piece of land that's in question I'm in favor of a house being replaced okay that's all you wanted to say Sir yeah I really want the thing replaced because it looks terrible I drive past it every day it's an iore and my house that just house next door to me just sold for 1.2 million and I'm considering maybe taking my four children and leaving because of other situations and I want to make sure that the properties all around me are in very very good condition and understood sir thank you thank you okay can we get some planning testimony to to wrap this up sure um I mean I think he gave us planning Testament did you not the last hearing I did um just to quickly sum I just want Jen yeah I think he should just summarize what he provided to us the last time okay you have to close public first all right let's let's C close to close second okay all in favor all right we're closed to public I thank you um so relative to the planning testimony can you speak into the microphone uh relative to the planning testimony I'll sort of just rehash what we discussed at the first meeting so this is uh an application for an isolated undersized lot the case law that establishes the proofs for this are the do Meer versus Lacy Township and it's a five prong approach that you have to make sure that and I'll go through them one by one so one of the items that we submitted in preparation of the prior hearing were Buy sell letters um that is demonstrating that we are trying to bring this property into conformance either through the acquisition of an adjacent property or a portion of an adjacent property or proposing the same question to an adjacent property owner do they want to buy all or a portion of our property the buy sell letterers came back and neither adjacent property owner wanted to buy or sell all or a portion of their land the next thing we had to do was try to provide a as compliant a design consistent with other undersized Lots in the area this is a uniquely shaped undersized lot and I think the board at the last hearing under took the position that the home that was proposed was was too large for the lot um so I think what we proposed is is reasonable for the area and I think with the additional changes that we're making of the removal of the covered porch and the narrowing of the driveway this is comparable to some of the developments that you'll see on other undersized Lots we need to demonstrate that we were not in violation of traditional purposes of planning such as light air and open space and I reviewed some of the um the I also reviewed the application under the authority of the C2 variance criteria or the flexible variance criteria I found no real detriment I we replacing a very small old home that maybe somewhat of an eyesore with a new home that meets you know current building standards and and current residential construction standards um so it would be an aesthetic upgrade to the area to the property and also the property is zoned as a residentially zoned property this is where residential construction should occur albe it with some relief due to the undersized nature of the property so this is as clearcut of a hardship variance as there is again the the the property of but detention Basin to the to to the east no ability to acquire any of that property and the neighbors to the north has no intention of selling or buying and if you look at the awkwardness of the property and the shape the property owner even to the South only has a very small portion of a common property line so this this property is truly isolated but in an infill development nature so it's surrounded by other residential homes but it really is sort of on an island by its own um so I think what we propos this evening is reasonable and I would ask that the board Grant approval thank you Jen I think that with the removal of that cover porch and the fact that the building coverage is now compliant the lot is significantly under sized they've improved the setback and I don't disagree with the testimony I think the hous is you know an average size house um and they're going to have to get the Board of Health approval for the for the septic system the the narrowing of the driveway to limit the coverage to the best that they can I I don't take exception to the release at their request thank you Charlie yeah the two comments I just say obviously they got to get the M County Board of Health approval and then you've heard the representation from Mr Wilder that the septic system is not to be mounted so in going through that process through the test and everything like that if it was now to be mounted you know more than 6 Ines above great I'd ask that they return to the board for uh amended approval okay and we're going to put the fence in yes sir a six foot fence on the North side up to front yard is there going to be a sum pump in the basement uh we haven't contemplated that um okay just asking yeah um have you done a test pit where the basement would be we have not um but I did take a look at the soils information for this property and not to bore the board but the property is in what's known as a hydrologic soil group a soil that usually has very deep groundwater and very highly permeable soils it's called Downer Sandy lone so uh the estimate based on the Ocean County Soil survey for this type of soil is that groundwater is more than 6 and a half feet down and six and a half fet is sort of the max that the soil survey will will demonstrate so Matt I'm just going to say that Brickyard has a lot of wetlands in that area it's there's a lot of wet area so are you married to a basement so like if the if the test pit doesn't give you the results you want no basement sure that's if the ground because there's a lot of wetlands along the along Brickyard so if I I what I don't want to have happen is the the building to be elevated out of the ground and to that point as Mr Kliff pointed out if we end up having to do a mounded system we're going to see you guys again to to illustrate that plan just to add on to I'm pretty sure the tat of requirements require test pits for basement to like confirm separation to seasonal eye and all that kind of stuff before you can actually put one of so that's a requirement yes okay so sir in summary thank you chair thank you board um we're ready to proceed with uh vote okay so what's the pleasure of the board well Mr chair I'm going to go ahead uh going over just a few things again just to reminders here removing the porch bringing that uh driveway to 18 foot moving the AC's which which is a wonderful thing and putting up the fence to help the neighbor and again you know obviously we just talked about the mouning of the stetic and coming back if that needs to be done but with all that being said I'll make a motion to approve thank you sir we got a motion to approve do we have a second second use and scotton may we have a roll call please yes you may Mr burello yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and chairman SE thank you for working with us yes much motion car okay thank you for time good luck thank you thank you okay that's it yeah I'm ready we get all four in then they made subsequent concessions okay hold on Mr chair okay I thought for sure you guys were going to take a break give any IDE Mr chairman you want me to say can Mr chairman the uh you're the Mr who has the next application after this one I believe is looking to be carried now I think because of the hour you think we um don't have time is that what it is where's Ken Jen what are you what what are you thinking I think this will probably take I mean Dennis how many witnesses do you have I have three Witnesses but I'm somewhat playing it by ear based on what the Board needs so three Witnesses is a solid 45 minutes okay I don't think I'm going to take that long but Famous Last let's say he takes us to 9:30 he that's my guess he's take us to 9:30 then Mr Pape can we do you and close out I have a total of five witnesses I could do one um my I I want to respect the board's time um I learned that if I came on October 7th I would be the first thing on the agenda I'd probably be able to do all five witnesses okay is that what you like to do sir I think it is Mr chairman I think doing just one and breaking it apart from the rest October October 7th is that's not Columbus Day is it better not M Mrs rabano hold on no it shouldn't be 11 the 13th 14 thank you okay all right so 14 Columbus those folks that are here for case number ba 24-7 1805 us9 this is a use variance and preliminary final major site plan this application is going to be carried to October 7th with no further notice expiration of time Remains the Same November 27th 2024 all reasonable request of this board for any extensions will always be granted and I would ask if you could confirm we're the top of the agenda that night yes you are I from Mrs Rano Mr chair it's in stone you're good Mr P thank you thank you very much you're welcome see you then have a good night night Ken okay up in front of the board case number ba8 24-8 modern classic auto sales this is a use variant and amended preliminary and final major site plan application of modern classic Auto Sales LLC as applicant and ardina LLC LLC has owners seeking use variants and amended preliminary and final major site plan approval to use existing 3,825 plus or minus Square ft of tenant space for an automobile sales use with no additional site improvements proposed on premises known as block 177 lot 28018 State Route 33 unit 1 expiration date October 2nd 2024 sir good evening I'm Dennis Galvin with the firm of Davidson Eastman Munos and Pon and I'm representing the applicant and boy that sounds really really heavy and complicated Dennis you can probably sit that Cube thing on the table is a microphone Jen tells me to sit I sit Mr you have you have three Witnesses I do let's get them all this morning in one time under this application please raise your right hand you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth the help people yes I do okay please State your names for the record and spell your last Kenneth Riley r i l y Christine c f o n e Robert Civ SI i v is and Victor E the professionals are swor thank you not qualified yet but not but they're sworn okay so so let me tell you let's let's talk about this case you previously approved at this location warehousing uses right it's on Route 33 it's got a gravel parking lot go ahead okay and one of those units we want to occupy one of those units how many units are there seven nine nine okay nine okay so it's a flex Bas yeah it's a flex Bas this is one of the units we want to use it for the sale of used cars now when I think of used cars I'm thinking 1950s the cars are on the lot the flags are waving that's not what this is not even remotely close we're in we are on the internet we buy classic cars we hold them and then we sell them at the Manheim Auction so we'll we don't need any cars outside this building for sale we will have to have two cars in the building designated for sale because motor vehicle in their wisdom and their regulations require it because they only have two classifications of licenses new and used cars they don't have a classification for internet buying and selling of cars so Mr chair I'm going to interject used Auction Sales is permitted which is what this applicant is proposing used car sales is not permitted so if you're representing that it's going to be something other than like the online stuff then we're going to have a problem with your notice because that's not permitted at all and that's a D1 if it's like so used Auction Sales is a a conditional use so I would probably just move on okay all right so so so so listen I I'm a I want to ask a question sure okay since we got a little time so if I go online and I buy a 10-year-old Porsche in Florida right and I have it shipped up I give it to you can you resell it for me well we would buy it from you yes and then and then we would hold it and then we would eventually delivered to Manheim to be to be auctioned okay so so so you have so so there's a process that you have that's my client wants to correct me by that go go ahead so then so you don't want to go in I understand Manheim is the biggest Auto walking franchise in the world and we are one of those dealers that sell see you tomorrow offsite at their auction so when we buy these cars from private people off their Internet ads the cars go to Manheim to be sold so they're held here they go to Manheim to be sold offsite so when we say classic what it's the company named modern classic is for a reason because we buy newer cars like 80s and 90s and up not classic muscle cars we buy cars that are newer collectible cars so not your typical restoration stuff stuff that is original condition and not things that are being restored and sold at at like a um like a Barett Jackson where they have a lot of muscle cars we focus on newer stuff to resell by finding them in original condition okay so this is not necessarily like tester rois and we do a lot ferar and Ferraris and all that we do a lot of Corvettes and newer muscle cars if you want to classify those types of cars as muscle cars okay all right so that that's the high-end side yes yeah we do not go into highend exotic we buy more of your weekend sports cars you see cruising around on a Sunday um stuff like Corvettes Mustangs Shel for instance is that good we did good we're understanding it yeah so um you know Jen has in her stuff you know there's no there's no cars out out out front right there there's nothing like that you're not buying and selling people are not coming to your place to do to to do any purchasing we're not open for the public he's going to tell you that once or twice a year someone could come there and buy a car there but that is the absolute exception okay in other words he's doing 200 Cars a year they're all online and at the auction ction and there's over the years we can produce proof that he's only sold two cars which is a requirement of the motor vehicle got it Jen no I'm okay I just want to make sure we focus on like the internet and the operational piece this is not a typical used carard lot where you have this is auction I agree I 100% agree and they don't find and they don't they're not they're not negotiating with the public this is like they find something privately they auction it privately there's no interaction at the location which I think is what is the conditional use and and so I feel like they're okay with what they're proposing I just don't want to go to left on it okay so this is a low intensity use 100% super low okay my my only question question is is if you need two cars for sale in the building to the like how does that is there any you going to have the same two cars for sale always and no one's going to buy like what you know what I mean like what does that mean my client will answer it but if you ask my client the right question he will give you a detailed answer yeah so okay okay go ahead so motor vehicle requires us to be capable of displaying two cars meaning we have to have a little spot that is designated for those two cars but we don't have to actively have those cars for sale which we do not plan to have them actively for sale we just have to comply with their requirements of having those two cars to have the license in this location like the cars in a spot for them just a spot for the two cars would be in compliance with motor vehicle not that we're going to have them there with no I understand I understand okay do you have to put a for a sale sign on them while they're just sitting there they they don't have to be even sitting they have they just have to have the spaces there to be able to to meet their requirements they don't actually have have to be advertised or even have a sign on them okay thank you it doesn't have to be physically on site correct yeah it doesn't we we could have zero cars there on the site like if they were to come and check we wouldn't and say we had no cars on site at all as long as we had those two spaces available for when we bring cars in then they would understand that we have the ability do that just to meet the requirement and and I don't think I'm wrong in saying this what we have right now we have a CO for warehouse and our office that's all we really need but the the motor vehicle won't recognize that and allow us to have this as our official location without going through this process and that's what we're doing so just to clarify that so they did get a CEO uh and I talked to Mr Howard about this for the storage of automobiles as a you know fitting under the guys of the warehousing it's the reselling reselling of the automobiles which trigger them to come to the board here so they are approved to store Motor Vehicles in the building as a storage component of the warehouse base so they're here for the sales component of the vehicles the two spaces you talked about is that can they be inside the building they are they're next to the they're going to be next to the stairs internally gotcha so the outdoor parking spaces that are allocated for the unit or for like the office space and strictly for the two own two two users of in the office okay and then I think it was there was conditional use statements on the plans I'm just going to ask the questions to make sure the board's aware of it right so all the cars coming to the site are in operable condition they don't need yes Auto Body Work oil changes or anything like that no we don't do any work we're not going to do any work on site correct and then um getting to the site you know it's like a flat bed that two two trucks or less kind of thing or two vehicles or can I see uh photos A10 and a11 and it shows the caliber of the vehicles that we have or the type yeah so I think that's important for they're not coming on like car hauler to like an auto dealership right they're you know trailer two cars three cars or less coming into the site um uh how long do they stay there you typic typically within a month but sometimes no no the the no the whole the the trailer get the car on and off an hour tops so they're not going to stay overnight and be there any any point in time because one of the conditions is that there's no outdoor storage in the front yard so I just want to make sure that anything you bring on site is going to be put in the building correct okay and many cars I've factored the maximum of 15 cars could fit in there with um we have a few lifts in there for storage purposes and I don't see us really having 15 at once but it's it's capable how big is this SP uh can we back up to the um indoor there you go see the four the four squares at the bottom that's that's the lifts so the car less than 4,000 sare ft like 3,800 sare ft and in one of the pictures there's a jack more forward what that's for is so they can lift the car on the jack and take pictures underneath so the four rack storage in the back how many what's the capacity is that double stack eight or can you fit there two on the the top and mid level and one on the floor so how many cars total on that that would be 12 and we need space in front of them for maneuvering and those two designated areas two designated spots yeah so 14 yeah I mean that that's that's 14 is the r and the lift that's closer towards the front that's just so you can lift them up take pictures right you're not going to have ones parked underneath it and we're okay inspection and photographs gotcha and then uh so just for transparency so across the street is a used uh Auto auction shop are you anticipating to like operate in conjunction with them at all with any of your no not at all I just yeah just ask a question because I know I think there's been some accidents uh at that site entrance coming in and out and you know anyone coming across the street on a tractor trailer or not tractor trailer but like a flatbed that's uh you know not a not a safe uh turning movement to get over there so I think that's really all I have for operational okay board members any questions you own all the cars that'll be in there yes there's nothing on consignment or anything no nope a little L when you speak a little Lou no I we the company owns all cars thank you okay and Mr Civ is the engineer he is now we asked Mr C to be our engineer in this case because he was the engineer when the site plan was approved okay so I I don't think there's going to be much that Mr Civ can tell us but why don't you come on up as long as he PA what's that as long as I paid him we're okay right yeah Charlie from an engineering perspective yeah so uh we need to qualify Mr all right go ahead Mr s we no he was sworn in or in you need my qualifications or he appeared on the case when are you a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey sir you are how long you've been a licensed engineer that's a good question I have since 2002 I think it was accept your credentials okay but Paul you didn't ask where he went to school I know we seen Mr Civ a number of times New Jersey technology so I I'll just ask some quick questions cut to the chase so uh right the site's been built you've gotten a CO right for the site and everything um the Drive aisle coming out of there it's DJ and stone like that um there's no issues with that being tracked out onto like Route 33 or anything like that to your knowledge not to my knowledge in fact there's a paved first 50 ft from Route 33 into the site that's paved to help eliminate tracking of stone onto Route 33 gotcha I would just say in other words if you yeah so not not not spinning out or anything like that okay yeah they do have a paved asphalt apron I just put it on the record again like you know applicant and the property owner in general just responsible for making sure that that material is not getting Tracked Down on under Route 33 uh I had a comment about the septic system there was a note on there about being water filled you've gotten uh the property owners gotten approved from Board of Health and everything's above board as far as the septic system right that's correct we have a certificate of compliance to utilize septic and there's no I think Board of Health said they take took no issue because there was no like increase in the office space or anything like that there's no like kitchen or any additional like sink space for like food preparation there is not the bo of Health corrected had no objection to this then um there is um sewer main obviously installed up Fairfield Road I think there's some future plans for that to be expanded the 208 is going to be expanded yes yeah so should it become available at any time in the future I just uh that you know the property owner be required to you know connect at some point in the future if it becomes publically available I believe that was part of the original site plan approval and that property the owner of the whole complex to do stating it again for the record part of Andy catching that yep all right um yes sir yeah we fully intend to whatever was previously promised should be met yeah so and then I think they do technically need relief of like the parking requirement because I think we might have calculated based off eight parking spaces and or eight Vehicles they saying it's 12 or 14 uh but you've heard the testimony about like predominately all the auctions are off site you know there's maybe once a year someone comes into site to do a sale transaction on the the site so I mean with the office Bas component you know I think it's just under 300 ft only one space is required you know I think what they have is adequate so so then where's all the the body work done if you know the polishing and everything where it's not going to be on site I'll tell you that come on back up come on we don't do any of that on site yeah just just tell board good um we Outsource everything we have a detail shop we've been um doing business with for over 10 years up on East Brunswick and same with any mechanical requirements we'll go to the dealership for okay so nothing's done on site nothing on site okay good all I have that's all you have Charlie y board members have any questions for the engineer yes go ahead um fire Bureau gave uh a list of things we'll be able to be in compliance with that um I think the fire Bureau fire Lan fire lane specific for project I looking I I think those are recommendations that like painting we can't paint because it's a gravel parking area or driveway area so the cover page was the bureau has no objections to the proposed project and then the second page was the barine markets I think this is a standard sheet that we get with the review letter I have no objection to complying with what we can but you know painting the gravel doesn't doesn't well we just put signs don't we if there's sign I believe there signs already out there have that just to clarify like the site's been built they've gotten off all their inspections and seal so you know they're approved to operate from the site as far as the storage component so conceivably all that signage was handled at time of getting seal for you know the the site as a whole and if there's signs are missing then we're going to send John out there correct correct okay all right and also the um is a fire suppression system needed because it's cars being stored in there fire fire suspition fire uh fire I don't know the answer to that question I don't believe so but I believe that'd be a building inspection item that would come up as part of they didn't bring it up as far as their review of this application they said no objection and I would say what one of the things I said in the beginning is we already got a CO our vehicles are already stored there so I'm sure that if something was required they would have directed us to do it at that time we correct nothing will change as the reason that they're here is because of their lure they have to be a sales facility as opposed to a storage facility they're allowed to store the vehicles if they weren't selling anything they would be allowed to store those vehicles in there as of today they already have their approvals to do that okay thank you okay um so I have nothing further from our engineer we don't have anything here bring our planner up toover the D1 D3 variants and just these three okay I thought the underlying building was rapone you're a licensed yes still licensed state of New Jersey yep still intact still have that license uh so the proofs that we're seeking tonight because the site is in the hd4 zone which back in 2022 um the township went through a great exercise to add a bunch of autor related uses to that zone so we conditionally meet and we conditionally comply with most of those conditions so with the board has left to reconcile is absent compliance with all those conditions is this still an appropriate location for this use and I would submit that based on the testimony of Mr Riley and the very unique um operations of his business I went out to the site and went in because I really um I had a initially a hard time understanding how this business operates I'm not much a car girl so I couldn't really understand and I went and I I met with him there and you know we saw his whiteboard how he he chases and tracks down his vehicles and I Saw the space and I can tell you that you know you could eat lunch off the floor in in the room where he keeps his vehicles uh he has a fabulous white Corvette in there when I was there last time it was a convertible I asked him if he wanted me to drive it to the hearing tonight but he didn't so um but it's really a very unique operation in that it's very clean and very low intense and much and this these pictures were taken not by me I did visit the site but I'm not the greatest at taking pictures so these were done under my direction um some of our our team went out and did the pictures but if you go to the next page of pictures I think it really um they're a little hard to see the color didn't come through great but I I can tell you that based on my physical observation of this if you were in here there's no way oh the that I think it's in there it's so so fabulous um you would never know that this is an auto sales that they're they're doing any type of sales they don't offer financing to their clients they don't have an Instagram that says this is our daily special where they're promoting in fact when I asked Mr Riley explain to me your business like you were visiting a career day at school and kids had no idea what you were doing he said I don't even like to sell my cars to my friends because invariably if there's a problem that's just not he's like that's not how I'm successful that's not what I do here so he explained to me fully the nature of his business and I think that certainly um it ABS in compliant with the conditional use this is actually in my opinion far less intensive than what you actually envisioned for an auction you actually would allow an auto auction to have an auction once a week here you allow it on a 5 Acre Site so it comes with a lot more intensity than the way Mr Riley is operating so when you look at that I think you certainly can conclude that abs and compliant with the conditional use we still in appropriate location and then when you get to the negative criteria it's not that there you know our test is no detriment is there is there a substantial detriment and here I think you can be assured that there's no detriment to the intent and purpose purpose you know of the Zone plan or the master plan right the master plan was looked at in 2023 and it talked about preserving the high level of services and providing new facilities and opportunities for growth and economic development um in the township so statuto I think we me our burden of proof for the granted the variances and um they can be granted with no substantial detriment to the public good or the Zone plan thank you m k you're welcome I have I I take the exception I I don't disagree at all I think this is far less intense than what is anticipated with a typical cart auction I just have a couple questions and I don't know Christine if this is for you or it's for the applicant I'll try what's the hours of operation so I'm gonna let Kenneth answer that because I'm not sure because we do have conditions associated with the hours of operation what are your hours of operations 8:30 to 5 is that true yes speak up louder louder is that yes so comply so we comply 8:30 to 5 is what's permitted in the zone that's the I mean so at the end of the day a couple of the conditions are you know do you have sewer they don't have sewer in this location I don't you don't have a tremendous amount of of employees correct two two employees are not going to generate enough use let's let me I'm trying to diplomatically with two it gets personal I know so I I don't take any exception I actually think I agree with the testimony that those uses that are permitted in the zone to occupy Flex would be far more intense than this use um and the only other thing I ask is how frequent and I know this is probably on average let me put it this way on average how frequent do you anticipate those trailers coming to the site it happens once a week if that so I would say at the most three times a month I I I it's in and out well they come in then they go out so thep take when you take the the cars to auction okay how often does that happen that's out that's what I mean yeah yeah how often do the cars go to auction there's a weekly auction we go to every Friday in Pennsylvania Manheim Pennsylvania so not only does the truck come sometimes once a week maybe three times a month we also drive the cars to the auction as well so at most four times a month yes so you're talking Seven Trips a month that would I think yes let's say 10 planning yes right let's say 10 yes Mr chair I think that's a very low intense use I I don't take exception to the testimony that's been provided I think this is an excellent use of the space I think it's far less intense than was anticipated when it was originally appr approved so I don't take exception to any of the testimony that's been provided sorry Mr chair just one last question I apologize so um there's never a possibility where like you you know you're closing up Sho and you're going to take all 12 cars and put them on a trailer and take them over to Manheim to sell them at one kind of time no um okay we we I have one one hauler as you saw in the picture that that's the only toach r that I work with he does two at a time and then the other cars that we bring weekly we drive a couple so that's that's that's all I want to ask you're good the our goal is to be licensed in this location and become a how business and dispose of our Lakewood office and we live in Freehold and we want to be here I know I am what I used to do back in the day when I was a board attorney is I would sometimes suggest to the board if any member is concerned they're uncertain how they want to vote that they would do a kindness and let me carry to the next meeting for seven I think that happened naturally at couple applications ago so right yeah you have to open to public first open the public is there anybody let's open no no no she's with us and in fact they're going to give you a bonus they're they got married a couple months ago but they've been too busy to go on a honeymoon and after tonight they're honey that's great Andy there's nobody in public I need yes why not well you need to open and then close I will open the public second okay all in favor we're open the public at this time the chairman open the hearing up to the public anyone wishing to speak please come forward motion to close second all favor I we're close to Public public is now closed okay so then here we are case number ba8 Mr chairman I would like just to make a recommendation that we approve this application second Motion in a second I can we have aoll Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Mr Ryan yes Mr scotson I am having a field day looking at all the Vets on your site right now I'm a vet girl I grew up around vet so yes my favorite card chairman seya yes motion carries applications approved thank you thank you good luck and and hopefully your honeymoon's going to come up sooner all right we have a motion to adj thank you