##VIDEO ID:daI09v1OIXY## [Music] good evening EA can you open up the meeting please how will Township Zoning Board of adjustment meeting Monday August 26 2024 I hereby declare this meeting of the Howell Township zoning board to be opened adequate notice haven't been given pursuant to the New Jersey open public meeting act in the following manner first on December 11th 2023 a copy of said notice was mailed to the Asbury Park Press and the store Ledger second on December 11th 2023 a copy of said notice was hand delivered to the clerk of the township of Howell third on December 11th 2023 said notice was posted in the office of the zoning board and on the bulletin board in the how Township Municipal Building 4567 Route 9 Howell Township New Jersey in accordance with the Fire Department fire prevention code and your safety please be advised that this facility is designed with two emergency exits which are at the front and rear of the meeting room furthermore smoking is not permitted in the municipal building please take note that this meeting is being videotaped for a possible future broadcast on Howell Township TV 77 this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues of what the board May legally consider in rendering their decision and the decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times thank you thank you Eileen may I have a roll call please yes Mr burillo here Mr caner here Mr Hughes here m Mr Mertens here Mr Orosco has been excused Mr Stanton I have not heard from Mr Ryan pres miss scotson here and chairman SE here you have a quum thank you lever Wy please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible and justice for all Andy can we have a swearing in of the professionals you swear the testimony you give will be the truth truth but the truth to you I do please State your names for the record Charles Kliff Jennifer beam your Professionals for Mr thank you Eileen item five any approval of minutes I have no minutes this evening thank you item six any vou I have no vouchers this evening item seven correspondence yes I have a correspondence I received a letter from Ed excuse me banano who is an opposing councel for Third Avenue Associates and he has a professional who was not available for this evening so he asked that this application be carried I received an email from John Jackson who is the attorney for Third Avenue Associates this afternoon who said he consents to the adjournment requested by Mr banano and request that an announce announcement be made tonight at the hearing that the application be carried to the September 23rd public hearing date with no new notice required okay so anyone that's here for case number ba2 24-3 3rd Avenue Associates this application is being carried to September 23rd with no further notice required Eileen what's the exploration on this one uh right now it's 92324 since that the date they asked but I did ask him for a further extension so I will follow through with that tomorrow thank you you're welcome uh I also have um an email from Mr P who is here tonight regarding the last application on the agenda which is case number 22 VA 2211 Aaron pecker and Yehuda braa and unfortunately the Asbury Park Press did not get the notice in the paper on time for this evening so that application cannot be heard and needs a new date with notice and Mr Pape is here Mr Pape yes Mr chairman Kenneth Pape on behalf of Ms pecker and BR Braun the uh I I provided the evidence to Eileen they did publish it on the 17th we had given them directions to publish it on the 15th we gave it to them in adequate time and it's just one of those errors we apologize to the board and to all who are affected by it and we just looking for a replacement date got apologies to all involved thank you sir Eileen what kind of date do we have uh I talked to Mr P because his planner is also not available on September 9th September 23rd has two applications October 7th has one October 28th has nothing so it's up to whenever his professionals are available in the dates so um Christine kon's associate is here this evening she just told me that Christine is available on October 7th so I would ask for October 7th we're noticing and Publishing for that date this failed notices of no value okay and this will be a new notice with an expiration date of yeah we need a extension of time as well Mr P Mr chair on the record on behalf of the applicant will grant an extension till December 30th 2024 and I'll follow it with a letter to tomorrow thank you sir thank you okay so anyone that's here for case number ba 22-11 Aaron Becka and Yehuda braon this application is being carried to October 7th with new notice to be to follow an expiration date December 2024 and then the only other thing is there are still people that haven't watched the storm water video training so if you haven't please do so and send me an email when that is compl Ed and that is it thank you Eileen thank you okay so then we have one application before the board tonight and that is application Mr chair if I could just interject yes if I could just say that the Third Avenue Associates is the cemetery application that's definitely not going to be heard tonight it was carried to September 23rd so if you guys are here for the cemetery application it's not going to be heard tonight thank you uh and just want I did send out a resolution today I don't know if anybody's had a chance to read it I haven't so I'll just put it on the next agenda thank you thank you okay case number ba20 d118 Fort Plaines Partners LLC this is a use and bulk variance to construct a One Flex warehouse and one storage self storage building application of Fort Plains Partners LLC as applicants in Fort PL Partners LLC loot lot 6.01 and 149 99 holding company LLC lots 15.03 and 15.4 seeking use variants and bulk variants approval to construct a one-story Flex Warehouse with mezzanine office space and a one four story self storage building and storm water management system on premises known as blocks 137 lot 6.01 15.03 and 15.04 Port Plains Road this is a bifurcated application as the applicant is only seeking use variant approval at this time expiration October 12th 2024 Mr Pape yes good evening Mr chairman members of the board board's professional staff and public my name is Kenneth Pape I'm an attorney with hurn Pape and I have the opportunity and privilege to represent Fort Plains Partners your applicant this evening as read into the record this is a request for use variance relief to permit the development of a property that has direct Frontage on Fort Plains Road that's approximately 34 acres and they can't hear you oh talk louder thank you I thought I was talking loud thir it's a property that is approximately 34 Acres a little more than 34 Acres it has Frontage on Fort Plains Road and access to Highway 9 the request that we make this evening is for use variance relief although you'll hear that there's considerable site plan work that's been done to satisfy comments and concerns from your staff before I make an opening statement to the board as to the applicant's request for Relief may I ask that the board confirm receipt of our notices and confirm that the board has jurisdiction Andy the board has jurisdiction Mr chairman and Mr P thank you we have it thank couple of things that we'd like to point out that there's going to be a total of four professional Witnesses three of the Witnesses are here this evening Christine phone is our planner and as the board may be aware Christine gone is taking her daughter to college and canceled her appointments for this evening so we'll be coming back before you to conclude the application the witnesses that we do present are prepared to present this evening are three Lewis zner who was the design engineer is alongside of me he'll begin that'll be followed by Nicholas federice who is the traffic engineer and then Matthew jarmell who is the architect who's designed the buildings that we'll present to you our clients have owned this property for some time in fact Lewis and I and other members of the team have been working with our clients on this property on this project for over seven years and during those seven years the plan has gone through a very considerable Evolution the intensity of the development has changed dramatically and what we're going to present to you is not the application that we started with there are three points that I would like to make certain that the board is aware of that'll all be emphasized by each of the professionals as we go along the first is that our clients took the step of purchasing a RightWay out to Route n they purchase a RightWay it comes out alongside of KFC it is wide enough to build a public Street we've gone to the do the dot has approved the design for it so we will have an access to this site from Highway 9 directly we already had a about 285 ft of Frontage down at the far end of the property near Home Depot so now there are two access points on Route 9 that's the first point that I wanted to emphasize the second is although we have a very very long Frontage along Fort Plains Road there is no access onto Fort Plains Road except to satisfy Chief now's requirement that there be a emergency fire entrance a gated fire entrance there's no other access to fortt Plains Road so we will not be sending any traffic from this site out to Fort Plains Road there is no restriction in your ordinance from using Fort Plaines road but we have a residential Community across the street and our clients made the decision to voluntarily give up their access to Fort Plains Road instead of access you'll hear that there's a substantial amount of bming and Landscaping and after Sherie Spiro's comments last week there'll be substantially more landscaping and bming in that area she has made it clear what she's looking for and we indicate we're willing to do so and the third introductory point that I wanted to share with you is this is a property that has historically had a residential Bungalow community on it there has been a number of times that the township has asked that the applicant bring those Bungalows to a conclusion and the applicant has agreed with the township they will be brought to a conclusion Mr agar is here we can tell you we're we be in the Municipal Court confirming that on the record in early September but your applicant is is going to remove the residential element from the site the your applicant is avoid is is agreeing not to use for Plaines Road for any access purposes has gone out to buy the route n access which will be the material presentation and has the two uses on the property the Self Storage use was not a permitted use at the time that we filed this application it was it became a permitted use since we filed it but jurisdiction remains vested with this board the flex building although there is a flex ordinance and you'll hear from our engineer that we follow the flex ordinance the flex buildings are not permitted uses and we're asking for variance relief for those uses to be part of the property a lot of detail will be required in the presentation we'll make every effort to be efficient but I do believe that we're going to take some time getting everything in front of the board this evening so with permission I'll ask that Mr zner be sworn we'll share his credentials with you and begin the substantive presentation is that acceptable that's acceptable sir yes thank you do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name for the record and spell your last my name is Lewis zner Zu GN R I think we're sharing this so Mr Zer would you take a few moments to share with all here your professional and educational background certainly uh I am a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey as well as several other states I'm a graduate of Virginia Tech I've been practicing in this field for over 25 years I have testified before numerous boards we'll accept your credentials Mr Z thank you Mr chair Mr Z I think we you could begin by letting the board know the exhibits that you intend to rely upon that way uh the board's professionals can be ready to put them up as you need them certainly uh hopefully you have all of these the first is going to be labeled overall aerial exhibit and this is a aerial image of the property and the surround roundings second is a label the development exhibit this is a closer in aial of the site in existing conditions excuse me did you send these to me these were emailed to you not the ones that I got today from the architect no these were emailed from my office this afternoon I don't think I got them if you don't have them I do have hard copies hold on one minute I think I might be able to forward the email to you excuse me it was a late email might have been 5 o'clock I have I have nothing from 4:35 to 6:23 so can you we could send it right now shall we take five you could take five yeah all right I we're gonna take five okay the board is gonna take a five minute recess okay e we're good to go the zoning board will now reconvene and before we start Mr P by numbered these a21 site layout [Applause] plan yes a22 is the development exhibit you sign did you sign a23 is the overall aerial exhibit a24 is the revised buffer exhibit and a25 is the site rendering thank you I don't have them they're all so so thank you for that opportunity to to load all that information we'll go back to Mr zagar's presentation if you could identify the exhibits from which you would like to testify and then let Miss Rano know the first one that you'd like up as you begin your presentation sure just to run through the names quickly again the overall aerial exhibit which is up that's a23 and then we'll move on from there development exhibit uh site rendering and then an alternative bu offer I think we from the aial if you could just describe the property to the board describe the existing conditions take us around the property certainly and sure the board is familiar with the area but this helps us all get located uh this is North up on this image has shown uh give us a sense of where we are up and down through the middle of the plan is Route 9 you can see the limits of this parcel outlined in white Fort Plains Road is to the left of that parcel and it curves in and and follows that white line on the left hand side towards the bottom is West Farms Road and then you can see a building just south or just below our property that's the Home Depot a the um we we'll get closer the the property sits in the highway development the HD1 Zone which goes out towards Route nine from our property Mr papid said earlier this overall parcel all of what you see there is just over 34 Acres I just sort of mentioned you can see here the property sort of has a long and narrow unique uh shape to it down on the bottom right hand side right along long Route 9 that Frontage is about 285 ft on Route 9 at the top left of that image you can see uh obviously you see Woods there but to the left of it towards Fort Plains Road that's the location we'll talk about some where the Bungalow Community sits at the moment uh it's nine buildings it's more than that in terms of actual units uh and that of course we'll talk about as being removed as part of this application uh if we could maybe switch at this point to what's labeled a development exhibit show us a little closer to the site so we zoom in a little bit here can start to see the makeup of the existing parcel I've colorcoded it I'll sort of go through what we're looking at but the existing property obviously they Woods you can see on on a number of pieces of it they're former Fields uh so those are generally open area some of them have started to uh become grown with smaller trees the very top of this uh would be top left of the boundary or limit line is a Bannon Meadow Brook there's a stream that runs through there what we sectioned this into by colors to give a little bit of an understanding of the parcel the red outlines where those Bungalows sit today does the applicant own all those bungalow at this time yes Mr chair okay uh the green is outlining essentially uh portions of the property that are not intended to be developed with this application a big extent of that uh is encumbered by Wetlands or stream or your stream buffer your local ordinance on stream buffer so it's not entirely undevelopable uh large parts of it are limited though by ecological restrictions like wetlands and so that's just here shown as an outline to identify that portion of the property is not part of what's being proposed for development the proposed area of development which we'll go on with is in the yellow outline that yellow outline area is about 14 acres so it's actually a little less than half the overall overall parcel and then Mr papid also talked about access to Route 9 you can see a flag in yellow headed out to Route 9 just above that flag you might uh know is a KFC restaurant there is an access in to a culdesac now and this application has control of that property and there'll be some more talk about this later but that can be configured as a new access point to the Northern end of this parcel as we get in you know we'll go through some of the details on how the property works in the proposed development but that access really provides a key secondary point of access to Route 9 and makes the site work and function in a much better fashion Mr chair question didn't we hear an application from somebody in landscaping businesses on that property somewhere Jen not on the KFC no Depot North of it okay it's like two or three Lots North of it it is okay thanks sorry [Applause] no so when we you know sort of our objectives or how we started when we began looking at this and as Mr pabe also said this was quite some time ago we've gone through a number of meetings with your professionals uh the overall concept and plan has changed a number of times what you can see from this in the yellow is that we were able to focus this commercial development towards Route nine get the two accesses uh and when we go through the plan you'll see we Face everything towards Route nine and focus really buffers towards Fort Plains Road I think we probably could switch Mr caner if I could just correct myself it's it's like couple Lots South closer to the Home Depot but it's not the KFC that yellow though no because that's the KFC lot that's vacant there's a a property in between and then that prop property is the next lot over in like the between Route 9 and the yellow area yes okay okay thank you if it were possible i' i' like to switch to the site rendering which I believe is a25 Mr zna Question so in the red area you're demolishing yes are you returning it back to its natural state answer is yes yes it would be anything there would be removed and it would just be its natural state the I don't think that's what he asked he's asking are you going to like reforest are you going to replant not like you're just going to demolish it and leave it as is we didn't have a plan to do more than raise all of the buildings and to restore the area to we we didn't actually come up with it it could be grass it be Landscaping um but the commitment that we made to the town is to raise the buildings take the buildings down John it could work yes sir give us a little background on this please uh so there's currently 37 Bungalows or units there um because of new new regulations that were passed by the state and in doing some research um Township came to find out that there aren't uh rental cosos uh for the Bungalows uh in the condition that they currently stand they don't meet house Township ordinances or state housing uh uh requirements uh and in addition because the Bungalows are so old they would also have to conform with the uh new lead law that just came down within the last year uh so uh there's also violations with regards to the septic systems through the Board of Health um essentially making these units not fit for habitability at this point so uh we issued some summonses uh fines were paid and uh the last iteration of our agreement is that uh the the owner decided that he wanted to move forward and demolish the the the units thank you sir welcome okay may we Pro so Mr Mr pape I think the question Still Remains as to are you planning to kind of Rel landscape the area I think the the best answer I can give to you is the honest one we had not come up with a of a regrading restoration plan but we certainly will work with SH buau to come up with a restoration regrading plan take out the old actic systems they all have to be removed that's part of right and we're going to clean clean clean fill the whole thing well septic system removal of all of the buildings removal of all potential contamination I think there may be some espe and then the applicant will work with Cher Sparrow to maybe reforest that area reforest or work with Sherie as she directs correct okay thank you you're welcome Mr chair Mr chairman just a quick question are there any oil tanks on the presence for heat not that I know of I don't think that there was oil heat I'm pretty sure that it was propane heat propane yeah but we've agreed that there'll be total everything will be done to the health department and the zoning office requirs so and Mr PVE would it be will the applicant obviously agree to set safy any how Township uh demolition permit requirements for all those structures I do know working on some projects for the municipality they do have an extensive checklist of all the items that need to be checked for on these type of properties including tanks and and the like so um obtaining those approvals I think will cover that as part of this we do agree and uh we've had meetings with John and with Matt Howard uh and earlier with Joe Clark about all of this and we are in a agreement as to what we will do all the permits that we'll take out we know that there's a lengthy lead time on those so we are starting the lead time on those but we'll agree that everything is going to be removed pursuant to a demol pursuant to demolition permits Mr Hughes he I want to piggyback on Mr Ryan's concern of the oil tanks I mean that'd be a d thing would that come up John if they were to demo and absolutely so uh the construction permit for demo has an extensive list uh so uh outside agencies would need to give their approvals such as Board of Health for any septic system that gets abandoned uh any Wells uh fire Bureau also checks for any inground tanks I believe they uh the propane tanks are all above ground uh so uh the there's an extensive checklist and inspection process that goes along with demo and then uh I believe an engineering component is uh is just basically um stabilizing the the area so uh nothing for in the sense that uh and we haven't spoken about this but uh with regards to planting anything in addition but some kind of stabilization so that there's no runoff uh and there might be some DP oversight depending on any sensitive land that's uh in that area that's right wonderful thank you okay Mr zna we're ready I have a question oh wait Mr are these um Bungalows currently occupied with residents most of them are yes and what happens to these residents I mean I don't know how this I don't know how it works does in a situation like this when where you're raising buildings that people live in is there a step to help these people find new housing your or that your Township ordinances have certain requirements with regard to relocation there are no requirements for this type of relocation everyone who is there and I don't handle this part of it there's separate Council who does but everyone that's there has a verbal lease that can be brought to a conclusion on a 30-day notice and it's my understanding that process has started that the notices have been sent out uh and we're keeping the town fully informed as we go through those steps okay thanks no yeah you have to wait for the public portion Mr burillo these Bungalows have been a problem a problem for the town for quite some time they're non-compliant they call there's code there's code issues there's so I understand your concern it's not really our purview here but my recommendation is that they go we've been trying to get them to go for seven years like I said my my concern is there are 37 families that I understand that but at the end of the day you cannot consider that as part of this Lang use application that's a totally separate issue and at the end of the day from a Lish perspective the Bungalows need to go okay thank you Mr zner thank you if we uh might switch to a25 site rendering thank you so now we I just mentioned that this is uh a slightly Twisted view from where we were before uh to make it fit this uh display so North is now more to the left than it is straight up this is the yellow outline right this is this this is focused on the yellow outline okay thank you when we looked at this development portion of the site what I would note is that uh in many ways because of its shape and configuration there was an opportunity to get multiple but complimentary uses and we'll go through what these buildings are but in some of the initial description by Mr Pape there are two Flex Bas buildings and there is a self storage building and I think it this also came up earlier as we started that concept with these multiple uses initially the Self Storage was not permitted uh but there was a change to the ordinance so the building to the right there closest to Route 9 is self storage is a permitted use the flex space although not permitted in the HD1 Zone you do have standards for Flex space uh within Powell and we did our best to follow those standards to create this Flex space uh and before I get into a little more detail just a reminder I think this was mentioned earlier as a use variance application this is not a full sight plan fully engineered plans uh but in this instance we have done a significant amount of design work obviously we talked about the time frame from when we started uh the work we've done with your professionals so this is a a very well uh established and understood plan as being fully buildable that we've done a lot of work it's just not 100% engineered a overview uh you know what we do have proposed here the two Flex Bas buildings uh you can see on there they're labeled A1 and A2 there'll be more description about the buildings themselves but these are one-story buildings uh they do have some office space within them uh the building A1 to the left is a little over 60,000 Square fet 62,000 uh building A2 also one story is 65,000 Square ft approximately and then the uh self storage building this is a multi-story building this is a a four-story building and it is a a footprint of 36,6 45 ft you can see also on this plan along the bottom while we didn't complete full Landscaping of the entire site we did want to focus in on how we would substantiate and maintain a offer towards Fort Plains Road we've already talked about how we don't have other than Meandering gated emergency access which is to the far left there furthest point left uh we have a 50-ft residential buffer there and in the plans we have submitted we've graded that with approximately 8ot tall burm and we've shown Landscaping there was a main focus of what we'll get into in terms of how we created this plan is to maintain that 50ft buffer in the most significant way also show you a little bit your one of your professionals Miss speiro talk to us a little bit about uh considering alternatives to that there are a number of large existing trees near the bend in Fort Plains Road and I'll bring it up a little bit later but I'll show you there's an area of trees there where this buffer may be better off if we preserve those existing trees and limit the constructed BM uh also here just looking at it from the overall perspective key element is that there is public sewer and water available for this site uh running would be up and down on this view left the very left Edge just outside of the pavement there's a sewer easement that exists and a sewer line that's uh that's already there that serves uh properties out at Route 9 so we are able to connect to sewer and to water uh probably could talk a little bit about how potentially through that sewer easement uh sewer could be made available to other commercial sites along Route N I believe there's some consideration for other Redevelopment or commercial development in this area with your permission I'm going to interrupt you for a moment Mr chair members of the board some 20 plus years ago there was a joint venture between the owners of the CME building um the owner of the AFC and I think one other property owner and together they Chapter House thank you chapter house they got together and they um they long be this is 20 some years ago before our clients bought the property that we're presenting to you they went to the then property owner a gentleman named Mark angle and they negotiated and purchased a 20 foot wide easement so that they could bring sanitary sewer from Fort Plains Road up to the properties on Route 9 it wasn't otherwise available this was coincidental with the construction of the Tuscana community and the construction of Home Depot when new sewer and water lines were introduced in Fort Plains Road so this private connection to that was put in place there is a a sewer line there that bring that provides Sewer Service to those three properties on Route 9 I do not know if the actual dimensions of that pipe can handle further growth but the easement can and I know that there is a goal to bring sanitary sewer up to the route n Corridor and I want to make it very clear that we don't our clients don't control the ownership of the sewer line but they do control the property and the easement and they will certainly work with the town as requested to allow further sewer or water lines in that easement so that sewer and water can be brought up to Route n it's our understanding that is a goal that came out of your recent r Vel plan so Ken I just want to ask a clarifying question for Mr Zer so you're saying the the diameter the capacity of that sewer main from Fort Plains through the easement to the KFC is not of sufficient size to handle I don't know your proposed development so we haven't uh there's capacity in that pipe what we haven't looked at is who would connect to it and what the flow requirements would be um so I don't know that there's unlimited capacity but I believe that it is um a 6in line in the easan and so as if this were further to site plan you would do that analysis and future development and then replace if it's needed to upsize the line to handle a future development Charlie we can make the easement available we can allow people who want to put an upssize line but we're not upsizing the line for all of those Highway properties we're making this route to Fort Plains Road available to anyone so as it's it today you can connect into that line without increasing the size of the line and it has capacity yeah there's capacity when the line was done those 20 some years ago it was there was capacity for this site to be developed with a very intense office I I just want to make the distinction so it's not like we're upsizing the line to allow for other additional future users Upstream of it you can utilize the line that's there so it's in existing condition can serve your use as it's needed so I just want to clarify that for the board and it's the easement that provides an opportunity to get to the silver line that we're making available to anyone and then as far as the water service is there public water in Fort Plains or route n that the applicant contemplates connecting to so there's a water and sewer in Fort Plains and as you may know Fort Plains was recently paved uh and this uh property owner had worked with New Jersey American to ensure that utility stubs were brought into the property outside of the pavement so there's the potential to connect uh to utilities without disrupting the pavement okay and I just wanted to ask that because it has been paved and usually we have a moratorium period that doesn't allow opening of the road without repaving so if there is stubs you know not going what there should not be a need to open the road for making Connection in the future can I just go back to the sewer cuz sure this was not my understanding when we've had these conversations my understanding was that the sewer was available to be tied into not that the easement was available to be utilized so now that's a different situation so the sewer line I do not know the actual capacity of the sewer line it was put in as a 6in line people are allowed to will allow people to tie into that I can't guarantee that all of the people on Route n who want to tie in are going to fit into that line so so what I'm asking you and quite honestly we discussed this at the TRC that this is something that was definitely going to come up um you're clearly not going to finish tonight because uh Christine is not here but I want to know what what the capacity of that line is and how many of these properties would have the ability to tie in directly before someone else would have to put a sewer line in um because I'm assuming that the provision of you know enabling additional properties to tie into sewer which right now they're not capable of doing is going to go towards your positive criteria and so I need to understand what exactly that means before we get to that piece because saying the easements available you know for a small contractor that's in a single like in a house where you know he's a oneman shop extending sewer all the way back to for Plains Road is a sizable expense versus tying into a line that's right next to his house or next to the office and so is it really available because to the north of you KFC CME Chapter House they're already accessing sewer so you know Marite is not going to be able to tie into this so you're talking about these small lots that front down Route 9 that have single family homes on them that have been used for whatever or are vacant and what is the capability of them to tie in to an existing sewer versus putting them in a position of having to run sewer because that's a very different financial situation and as far as I'm concerned changes this the positive criteria a bit understood and we'll we'll do the analysis thank you chairman M here go ahead could you tie in the uh sewer lines where the Bungalows were possibly as another location no they no they cannot that's not where the line is and I just want to go back to the Bungalows because I know everyone seems super concerned these people are living in substandard conditions in in structures that are not habitable not up to code have been not legal for years and years and so like the like they've already agreed separate and apart from this application that those Bungalows are going so I just don't want you guys to spend a lot of time worrying about the Bungalows because they're going regardless there's there's a municipal court action associated with them the settlement is that they're going away they're going away whether you guys approve this application or you don't approve the application the Bungalows are going away so I don't want to spend a lot of time worrying about them because as part of this application is as if they're not there so when the Bungalows are gone yeah is that plot of land developable for apartments first of all it's not zoned for that so no and secondly this applicant has not proposed that and there's no access to Fourth Plains Road associated with this application so that would require somebody to file a separate application maybe maybe not but at the end of the day they would have to come back before you and and provide justification and then access the road that they've committed not to accessing which I'm assuming Andy has written down as a condition of approval that there will be no access to forls Road and so my guess is no Charlie yeah so and just to further that right they're asking for approval for multiple uses of multiple structures on the property so any addition to the property in the future would require them to come back to the board for adding additional and exacerbating the non-conformity so it's not like you can just do it as a planning board application there's you know a lot of things that would uh need to happen but it could happen under this application if it was added yeah they're currently not proposing any proposed structures up there it's just to them rate Mr chair this application has been in the hopper for seven years it came in with a whole host of things that I was less than enthusiastic about they came back with another whole host of things which I was less than enthusiastic about we're now here seven years later I would venture to guess the application is not going to be amended to include apartments at that location they were told very clearly that the site is tight you have multiple principal uses already being proposed Apartments would not be looked on favorably and so therefore I would highly doubt that this applicant is going to come back with with that application could they maybe but then it comes back to you to decide whether or not you'd be willing to to entertain it but you're not obligated to because they're here at the zoning board for use variance and to give additional Clarity to that too so the property is long and narrow but there are pretty much north of what they're currently proposing to develop there are a significant amount of environmental constraints Wetlands a stream potential flood Hazard area uh that would make development of the northern portion of the site limited and or or northern and western portion site limited and restricted so okay thank you Mr zna I Mr chair I can tell you that we have been working on these plans for that long period of time there's no ambition to build an apartment complex on that portion of the pro Mr P no Stu unturned appreciate the depth of the question okay Mr Zod we're back to you yeah um okay if I go through some of the design elements I think that would be excellent so again not a full site plan before you but we did go through and understand the site so a number of the design elements and things we looked at and presented to your professionals and submitted to you in the plans uh first would be grading the majority of this property or the section here will be highlighted in yellow in its current condition runs to the north runs towards that green area there's a small portion closest to Route 9 where it's graded towards Route 9 now in the proposed condition we talk about the storm water side but um there's a fair amount of grading that happens on this site uh there are a number of retaining walls that are proposed as part of this site most of which you would not see from outside of the site uh in particular there are retaining walls close to Route n in and around the self storage building while not highly visible in your ordinance uh walls and fences are all under a similar section so there will be relief required for those retaining walls because they're in the front yard again they're not very visible they're not very high uh I believe we probably would present them in full at the time of site plan I want to make you aware of the fact that there would be walls there as part of the grading plan some of that ties into the next element which is drainage uh we've done quite a bit of extensive work in terms of design Geotech and soil borings on the site and the General effort with storm water is to get all of this water towards the North and not out to Route 9 um if we could switch back to the a25 S rendering perfect there's a a myriad of different elements in this storm water design you can see in a slightly gr or Bluer color those are all elements of surface water basins what you can't really see or identify in this is there's a whole number of underground storm water features under portions of parking throughout uh it meets the newest rules we went through extensive amount to show that I believe Mr kff would agree while not completed we've done enough to show that this is a feasible design that this would work and it takes the storm water to two outfalls to on this plan the left um that's how some of the grading and the walls because of all these elements that's what has us need some of those retaining walls in the front yard if you could identify what the front yard is I think that this property is somewhat unique we just identify where the front yard is and point out although it's a front yard it's not functioning as a front yard correct so it's where the front yard setback would fall and these are the dimensions off of Route 9 surrounding the self storage building so there's a storm water basin you can see in like a bluish color not quite on Route 9 but it coming um it's in directly in front of the cell storage building to the left of our access to Route n there's some retaining walls as part of that storm water basin and then towards the property line all the way to the right separating us from Home Depot uh to make some of the grading work there at that property line there's some retaining walls they fit within the front yard setback but they're not literally in front of the building separating us from route nine if you could clarify these walls are they're they're visible from the buildings on this site they are not intended to be visible from the surrounding properties correct if you were driving route n you would not see the if you're in the Home Depot parking lot you would not see these and you're comfortable that your stormw designed will ultimately pass Mr kliff's tests I'm very confident yes I'm sure Mr Kliff will share his comments on that before we conclude would you go continue going through the sure one other element with storm water so to the left of this plan among other constraints and I'm sure you're familiar with your own stream Corridor buffer uh there is a limiting line there of the stream Corridor buffer there is an existing pipe that runs essentially from a storm water facility on the KFC lot to the the top left of this plan through our property to Wetlands it's an existing pipe with an existing outfall and really the best design uh for our site most sensible is that we would connect to that pipe with the outfall from our Basin that we ultimately have one point of discharge into the wetlands uh to connect to that pipe we do disturb or would go through the stream Corridor buffer it's in an open area it doesn't require removal of trees it really is the most sensible design um it probably uh you know if we were to create a whole different outfall somewhere else would actually be as much or more significant disturbance so we are required to apply for relief for disturbance within the stream Corridor buffer but I think that it's a reasonable part of the design so Charlie yes Mr chair when you go through a stream Corridor buffer do you go above it underneath it how do you prevent blockage of the stream card so it's it's underneath it's going to be blow ground so the KFC when that was built um they installed uh their discharge through the subject property via an easement um coming out of their property there's a manhole you know 105 ft into the subject property it turns and heads North and then discharges into the uh existing uh drainage feature on the site that ultimately heads north towards uh Bano Brook um what Mr zner said is is accurate so they could have created a fully you know new discharge Point um further increasing the disturbance into uh the stream quarter buffer this would be you know any type of a development on this site this would be the prepered approach tied into the existing manhole structure collocating storm water infrastructure to try to minimize disturbance into those those areas and our ordinance does allow um you know encroachment into the stream quarter buffer uh and I think potentially into the stream quarter as well for stor War Al Falls and the like but usually it requires the applicant to like demonstrate that there's no other alternative means so you know could they have run their own new Alpha all the way into the to the the ditch or the water feature there yes collocating with an existing alphon on an existing conveyance system would would be the preferred approach here next question question yes Flex Bas oils hazardous materials painting that's all going into the sewer or is it all going into the stream caror so all the infrastructure now on new St new stormw manag rules has to be green infrastructure there's infiltration component uh there's pre-treatment requirements if you want to use exfiltration uh and the like I'll let Mr Pape and the applicant talk about who they're intending for these Flex spaces you know the board on other quasi Flex spaces in the past has you know required restrictions on no hazardous no flammable you know no no vehicle maintenance on the site and things like that I think those are all things we need to hear from you know Mr P and the applicant on what's proposed and what's not uh being proposed on the site most of the other Flex Bas that we' have seen you know if you think about Associates Business Park up on oakerson road have been like 5,000 10,000 foot tenant spaces this is a little bit larger than that so you know those smaller tenant spaces tend to be more your HVAC contractors you know I think safe light went in some of those spaces up there you know as part of this process I think we want to hear maybe anticipated users what you know what is and what is not contemplated for this quote unquote Flex space thank you Charlie any questions we're good okay sure I to respond to the request for what type of tenants are we targeting our architect who designed the building is prepared when it's his turn to speak to this board he's prepared to take you through what the building has been designed for and what the target tenant is and we're very much aware of the types of restrictions that have been imposed on other Flex buildings and we fully anticipate hearing from the board with regard to those are you planning on having the applicant testimon testify I we're going to have Mr JL make the testimony with regard to operations um I mean if before we conclude we can certainly ask one of the representatives of the the three Partners one of them to testify I can tell you I did not prepare the witness the the owner of the property to testify this evening but I mean I think that that's something that the board is going to be looking for way before the architect gets up and testifies due diligence I I agree got it back to you Mr Z sure I I know there will be further testimony on traffic but a few points if I could on circulation and the use of the parking lot uh we could go back to 8:25 again thank you so again we spoke about the two points of Ingress or egress starting to the left there where we come in I know we refer to it as the KFC but the Northerly entrance uh and our design the intent is that that's much more focused for use at the flex Bas buildings thinking being that Vehicles could come in and circulate and have access to the flex space buildings uh and leave out of that point uh it's constructed to accommodate obviously cars Vehicles Vans and even uh standard size tractor trailers for deliveries uh if a larger vehicle like that would come into the site and not leave that entrance which would be marked to leave that way uh they are capable of circulating and getting out the site so no one would get stuck going to the self storage area um you can see that you know dimensionally the area is created for easy access on one side for loading uh and larger vehicles and then separates out to the other side of the flex space build building for passenger vehicles and keeping those separated provides benefits for circulation within the site separately we would see the self storage building is operating more with access directly from Route 9 at the right hand side there's circulation around the entirety of that building uh the back of that building which would be a loop around it uh is one way that's the only section of the parking area at all that's one way it is safe it's functional was reviewed by your fire chief uh and we believe we've addressed his concerns as well we mentioned before the emergency access point was added at his request yeah where is that on the plan because it's hard for me to it's it's not the most clear but if you see at the bottom left of our site left of where the proposed uh Landscaping is and it's purposely curved somewhat so that uh as you then landscaped that there's not a direct view through that to the site trying to obscure it by bending it and that's gated it' be gated we met on two separate occasions in January and again this month with Chief Brock now to go over the design the goal was to make certain that all of his requirements were part of the plan and I can tell you that as evidenced by his correspond the this plan is acceptable to him he does want there to be a noxbox gate that only the fire can open and that driveway would have no other purpose uh in terms of parking and loading uh some sort of basic numbers but the flex space building would have a mix of sort of atg grade direct access into the building and then a loading dock where truck could back up uh the Self Storage would also have loading much more focused on a van or a car uh and there would be underneath the building three parking spaces envisioned directly for loading or unloading uh and then there's a designated loading area the very tip or right end of that building uh that could accommodate two vehicles overall this site has uh for vehicles passenger vehicles 112 parking spaces uh the requirement would be 107 parking spaces and then if you take the EV credit it would be 97 required so even without the EV credit there's more than sufficient uh parking for passenger vehicles there's some sort of logical separation to the elements so it sort of reference 82 parking spaces sort of coincide or along the flex space buildings 15 are approximate to the self storage building I'm sure you know that you know actual operation of a self storage building is not generally very high intense for parking people come drop stuff off and then leave Mr zugner what if one of these spaces were occupied by a tenant that had a significant number of fleet vehicles so for example like a landscape contractor that has a number of vehic with trailers with that needed to be stored you don't have any oversized vehicle spaces and my experience is that those vehicles are often times parked all over the place haphazardly and could negatively impact the other Flex space tenants in the center is there some provision to restrict fleet vehicles or are you going to put a restriction on the number of vehicles each tenant is permitted to park outside overnight how are you planning on handling that so I've had I'm going to answer for the applicant we have gone over that um the potential of there being fle a fleet of vehicles could completely disrupt the parking field so we would stipulate that for each demised area there would be a maximum number of vehicles that could be parked overnight um right now we have I think the the modules are somewhere in the five to Mr modules are in the 5 to 7,000 range so and we we uh we we would put a maximum number of overnight parking on on the property and we would require that the overnight parking not be in the parking lot it would be in the loading zone only Mr pape I thought you would tell me that of course the applicant's going to file for a title 39 on this as well right you're going to tell me I have to yes so Mr P are you going to give me a number of vehicles or a type of vehicle and I'm not 100% comfortable with you first of all I know Charlie's going to jump in here and talk about the number of loading spots because you said that you took our Flex ordinance into consideration but you don't comply in terms of the number of loading spaces so I just honestly feel like that should be be a little clearer in terms of how many and let's be honest and I know that leis is not the right witness but your Flex space spaces are significant in size like we don't typically see 30 plus thousand square feet for one tenant space so I'm curious like are you going to restrict it to two like what's the Restriction cuz to say you're going to restrict it but not give us the detail is not helping us and it kind of Ken just to go along with that comment with the number of loaning spaces so we're in the H1s which is south of that's Lanes Mill right or where that's per south of Lan yeah where it is a conditional use so it's not a permitted use here it's not a conditional use here but we do have standards in the South part of town and the intent is to limit the number of loading zones by like gross floor area so it's one per 7500 squ ft² I think is the requirement they have like one per 5300 plus or minus here so you know um traditionally smaller Flex spaces require less loading areas you know large areas with more loading uh zones kind of is more traditionally warehousing so I think that's also something that the applicants need to clarify for the board is these are two buildings with you know five six different tenant spaces is there any possibility that these could be all owned and operated by one tenant cuz then it's not Flex it's maybe Warehouse exactly and that's why Mr zner mentioned that the KFC egress Ingress can handle tractor trailer so you know I don't see a tractor trailer making a hell of a good right turn there I mean it's got to go in and around the building right so that is the primary in andout by the KFC and if that is nothing but long boxes I mean it's something to consider so Mr P we need now we see with flex right right so we typically see Flex as contractors that have 16 Footers 18 Footers 22 Footers 25 maybe not even you know you're talking an HVAC contractor uh electrical contractor so I that's why I very much think that we need to hear from the applicant in terms of the intentions here because you know I I don't think the architect is I mean he can talk about how he designed the building but he was directed to design it under a specific purpose and the applicant should be able to discuss it before the architect gets up to justify it Mr chair members of the professional team the um recently going over the plans with your professionals we did learn that we had I think two extra overhead doors that have to be removed to be consistent with your Flex design and they'll be removed and we also discussed fleet vehicles will come up with a program a specific program for the limitation of overnight parking of vehicles and the um we can go over the types of vehicles that we're anticipating when Mr federice is before you the goal is to create the spaces that are compatible with the small comp contractor's needs this is not there's no intention to build a warehouse here this is intended to be um true flex I can tell that you're going to need to hear more specific information to give those assurances to the board we'll make sure that they come before we conclude back to Lewis back to Lewis so we're talking about uh vehicle parking spaces and I said a certain number approximate to the in the Self Storage there's also you can see in the center top another 15 vehicle spaces um that uh sort of called the the Surplus space location mixed between the two buildings among all the vehicle parking it is shown with 10 EV spaces uh and F five adaa spaces but again we didn't need the EV reduction to meet the parking we would have met it with or without and the EV charging stations are open to the public there's no restriction on who can use them there are the types of when when when you have the an EV charging station that's open to the public the public is has access to them for a fee for a charge well it'll be on their app and they'll say okay it's over here and they're going to race it over there app or credit card yes I mean what level charging station are we talking about because a level one charging station is not going to do the general public any good because it'll need to charge for eight plus hours to get like 20 miles so right so if unless it's level two or above it doesn't do the public any good level two your St said okay Jer I'm fairly certain it's level two but I that's not testimony I have to verify okay thank you uh we talked a bit about uh the buffers so in this application here for use variants really what we focused on terms of landscaping was simply the buffer and we've uh spoken with Miss SPO uh she has said that when we come first site plan she's going to insist on a much more densely planted buffer where we have it uh in addition to reviewing the rest of the Landscaping uh but again it is shown with an 8 foot landscape BM and if I could for a moment because I talked about this earlier there's should be one that says alternate or revised uh buffer 24 a 24 a24 please during a meeting with Miss spear she identified that there's a very substantial mature forested area that's located at the southern end of our property she asked that we be mindful of it and see if there's a way that we could work it into the ultimate buffer I think that's what we're going to go to so you can see just below our property where Fort Plains curves uh there's actually like a triangle it's part of the Home Depot property there's significant trees there uh in that curve and that ties right into trees on our property and you know we've sort of cut off the proposed Landscaping you can see that there are significant trees throughout there and she was talking about preserving uh what are really the mature and Big Trees there's also a section there that are other sort of New Growth smaller trees uh and that's most likely where we would build the burm and thoroughly planted I would fully expect as we went through this process uh that we'd spend a lot of time with Miss SP to get the right plantings in the right density and figure out exactly where that tree line Falls so that we're saving the right trees and removing ones that are unsuitable Mr chair we had the opportunity to meet with Sharie Spiro last week we knew that she wasn't going to be here this evening she has personal responsibilities this evening but we um promised her that we'd make these statements on the record that we had worked with her and we mindful of what her goals were and it just was important to me to show this because it's not a slight difference there in terms of the length of the BM right there there are quite a few trees and so it would appear very different one way or the other uh we have I uh I believe we've talked uh pretty well in terms of utilities on the sewer and water um we do have trash enclosures uh we have three shown one for each building in this layout there's easy access to block enclosures masonry enclosures uh and then two elements I would normally talk about to some extent uh would but here have less significance just because of the stage of of where we are in the application signage and lighting signage let's go to signage so you have two Ingress egress are they both going to advertise each other or is it going to be one specific for flex and one specific for storage J I don't know I asked the same question we anticipate there'll be a monument sign at each driveway and that the monument sign at the southern end is oriented towards the Self Storage the monument sign at the Northern end is identifying that there's a flex Park in behind the KFC and the one out piece I would add it's not something that was part of what was submitted here but a site like this would have wayf finding signage so I would expect a signage programed and we would show it at site plan that identified to everyone where and how to circulate this site as Mr Pape said two different Monument signs so while you can interweave this site it does function as self storage and as f space to just clarify on the signage so so on the southern n isite you do have Frontage on Route N9 so you could place a sign you know on the route N9 Frontage there at the easement through the KFC are we saying there's a monument sign that's going to go by route nine in the easement and does the applicant have rights to put a sign there the applicant does have those rights to put a sign there that's where we're proposing that's is that shown on the plan right now or you're just saying at time of site plan you're G to there's no signage that is proposed as part of the use bars it would be site plan so can can I get back to the buffer so I can understand that you've provided for buffering from the residential units however there are two properties on route 9ine that are residential and there's and you're encroaching into the buffer and I know that you guys reached out had not heard back Mr agar has just indicated that those two properties are rentals so you would not comply with the the buffer backing up to Lots I think what is it 10 and 11 Charlie both so when we looked at it and certainly be happy to to spend more time on it we do respect the residential buffer even though it's all HD1 Zone where we identified potential residences I actually think one of them might even be operating as a business but it's not so I'm just going to tell you that before you go down that path the ordinance says residential use or zone so I get the fact that it's an HD1 Zone but if it's being used as a residence it's respected as a residence and requires the buffer and and our intent was to do that I believe we have there's a gap where we show the parking so it's identified on that plan is Lots 10 and 11 and we don't believe either of those has any residential use on it one is vacant of all buildings and the other has a building which if is barely standing and no one occupies it is my understanding I I went there this evening before coming here and the one the structure that's standing is completely vacant it appears to be in very very poor condition and it also has a small wooden sign in the front yard that has the remnants of advertising and then the other one is a vacant lot and I also wrote to Mr Hutchinson to ask if he could confirm how he is listing Lots 10 and 11 I didn't get that response back but we certainly ow that information to I I guess the question taking the buffer aside right so you're providing more parking spaces than is required by ordinance if you eliminated those 15 parking spaces from the buffer would you still comply with the parking ordinance requirement L uh we could we could lose those if we use the EV credit which you're allowed I'm per two for one and not a maximum reduction of 10% right with the EV credit our required is 97 and we have 112 at the moment I mean again we're not going to finish this evening yeah so I understand that the appearance and whatnot but we're going to definitely need more than just the appearance of it to you know you know that the the township is very protective of its buffers so we're going to need more of a demonstration than it looks vacant I I'm certain that Mr Hutchinson will provide his written response prly Mr Mr zno lighting so we did not submit a lighting plan with the use variance application uh I have taken some look at it I'm very confident we could meet the ordinance uh or come up with substantially a functional plan to light to sight but it was not part of what we submitted all right so now let's look at the flow on the on the map flow of traffic so I'm going to the public storage unit I'm coming in with a U-Haul 18f footer I'm going to the loading dock I'm going to back into the loading dock now I got an 18 wheeler coming in and it misses the entrance at the KFC now the 18 wheel has got to come in can't make that complete right so it's got to go around the property is there enough space to get to circulate around this may be more of a question for Mr Federal oh yes okay oh yes because this all comes down to you know conflict and deconflict iting right when it comes to the multiple uses on this property and the traffic flow and the uses I I know we've looked at all of this I just don't want to answer what would be his uh all right so Mr chair would it be possible to make them two separate where the South entrance is only used for the the um storage and the north is only used you can't get to the back using the north driveway without going past the Self Storage you can't physically get there now what I'm saying is what the chairman said is if an 18-wheel truck comes down misses the north they're going to try to come in through the South and get to their destination at the flex can we prevent that from happening by having a I don't know what would be used but the dividing that so the 18wheeler and I don't know by signage or whatnot but if he misses he's got to go around do a JK handle go and try again I mean certainly if you were to decrease the size of any of the buildings on the site you know you could separate the two entrances and essentially make them two separate sites where they don't have a shared access between them there you go Charlie you know I mean that's up to the board you know and we'll let Mr zner and you know it sounds like we might might be here for another uh meeting but yes I think that's a valid concern is if you know someone's going 50 mph in a tractor trailer and they don't know where the entrance is and they come down to the southern entrance there that's going to be a hard hairpin right turn to come into the site and then you know you're going past all the s or are we preventing those long vehicles coming in because there's not a need for them if we're truly going with a flex space and keeping it smaller with the vehicles so to Pape it's a conundrum that we have and we have to resolve that if it's a flex space there's no reason to have a 40 foot maybe a 20 maybe a 16 but not a 40 and that would be that would be a traffic and accident nightmare at both entrances get deliveries and lots N9 and 11 are both I'm familiar with both properties Mr Ryan you're good I just have one followup to what Miss beam had her concerns about the sewer system with the water that's coming in off of Fort Plains Road did I understand that correctly that's where the tap in will be the pable water yes okay is that also going to supply the um sprinkler systems for these buildings uh I would let someone else talk about the building but yes that would be the supply for a portable and because for a four-story building you're going to need a 6 to 8 in wide pipe dedicated just for that sprinkler system I would imagine and then whatever you need in the other two buildings so would what's coming in off that be able to support the drinking water the uh restroom Waters as well as so U I haven't gone through the full study and I don't know the building but there is sufficient water uh pressure and flow in Fort Plains Road to provide fire suppression for the build you've met with a water company or they've issued some you some kind of guidance on that or have you made preliminary application for water and sewer we have do not have an application with New Jersey American Water we just we just that line was put in about 25 years ago when Home Depot was built and it is a it's a major trunk run in for I think to Mr Ryan's point so we did have you know uh Warehouse application uh come back in uh to extend um you know the approval and uh developers agreement and things like that and I know with that application the water company told them that they could not actually pull from the public water main um for fire suppression services so they had to put in their own pump house and underground tanks and all that kind of stuff uh after the fact so that would be something if it's anticipated I think the board would might want to know that especially since the tight is pretty tight as it is they asking that we go to New Jersey American water and get a commitment from them for fire finding water supply from their correct and that that portion of the question makes much more sense to me yes sometimes it ends up with a tank or something like that okay okay board members we good okay so for the public we made a decision here that we're going to allow the public to come up ask questions of the professional the engineer only no comments and uh you'll have plenty of time for comments at the end of this application when we wrap it up and so forth and you'll also have opportunity when the architect comes up and the planner comes up and you could ask questions of them as well at that time so anybody from the public we're going to open it up go ahead we got a motion go have a second okay all in favor ien at this time the chairman has opened the hearing up for members of the public who have questions of the engineer only please come up to the podium state your name and address and you'll be sworn in and you can ask your questions sir hi Daniel Martins do you SAR the testimony give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you back absolutely yes please state your name spell your last and provide your address and you can raise that mic so you can perfect Daniel Martins 12 Arrowwood Court um as you see on the in the Toscana development okay basically I have um just a lot of uh questions this is being recorded right so you guys get a chance to kind of review this so I just thought you know being an engineer this is kind of my food for thought but um you're asking the question of the engineer here go ahead so um building A1 and A2 how will it be used in the sense of are will there be hazardous materials vehicle maintenance welding noxious gases explosive materials will there be any manufacturing such as Pharma is there going to be a noise issue for the development as it faces the development um I don't I'm not quite sure I don't understand why buildings A1 to don't just get moved a little bit to the Northwest to avoid the encroachment that you have with those 15 spots because you're saying in the green area that you don't want to develop but yet if you just go a little bit that way you actually remove a lot of your issues there when they're bringing vehicles in is there going to be restrictions on Jake breaking will be restrictions on roof usage for whoever does it let him answer question yes okay one at a time Mr zna go ahead which question where where did we start the first what was the first question Hazard materials vehicle maintenance welding noxious gases explosive materials and or manufacturing none of that was part of Mr Z's testimony he did not testify to uses all of that must be placed on the record before we conclude but it's not Mr Z question so restrictions for the same there there will be a presentation of uses to the so then the next question was Rel to the location of the buildings I'm not sure I totally follow your suggestion in terms of Shifting the build over here everybody can hear me right yep so over here we have that green section that we were talking about I understand that's very nice you don't want toach on that for this development everybody seems to be really upset about this area in the sense of it not being deep enough to try and keep it away from the development we live in move this over just enough you would have you wouldn't have to sit there and do this encroachment here first off you're going here all this is now undeveloped area that you say you're not going to develop which I want to make sure is actually put in the record you're not going to develop it and then this whole area can rul here a little bit more making it easier for whatever you're doing from the parking standpoint it seems like you you went down this far to actually make it a little bit inconvenient for yourself Mr zugner uh the uh buildings and parking cannot be shifted to what would be on the left on this plan there are number of restrictions including a stream Corridor buffer in your ordinance as well as the sewer easement itself we don't want to push things on top of the sewer easement okay that's fine so to that end have you done soil sampling because we were talking about the bungalows the soil up there is is very clay I mean it's very saturated with Clay you've got all these little um reservoirs for storm overflow that storm overflow they're when whenever it rains significantly on Fort Plains the flooding there sometimes takes weeks to drain off these things are going to be having water all the time what is your plan for mosquito control so uh we have done a pretty significant amount of geotechnical Investigations for the storm water there actually are very different soils in slightly different parts of this site so there are soils that are very restrictive uh as as you've mentioned uh and there are areas that do have soils that do drain well so we have our recharge into the ground focused in areas of good soil for recharge uh and then the surface basins are designed to hold water and discharge it within 72 hours which meets the requirements will there be um adequate fencing to keep people out of these areas I'm worried about like my kids on bikes going up this little access road and then riding up and down here or skateboards you got a ton of kids in this development that are just looking for spots to you know go somewhere else with it's a nice flat area to go play and then you're going to have all these parking spots in here I mean is there going to be adequate fencing I mean you have a little um gated thing here that's not going to keep some kids from walking around a gate is there going to be fencing all around this thing I've just made a note we this is this use bearing plan does not have a fence plan other than the commitment that we have to have have the knoxbox gate um but we'll certainly sit down and work on a fencing plan the concern of keeping this keeping residential children out of the site is an an one we're working into the plan thank you um the dumpsters I love the fact that you're going to have some type of brick and mortar hiding the dumpsters so on so forth what's going to be in the dumpsters though is if you're going to allow like Pharma manufacturing there's not anything that is you know precluding weird stuff getting into um dumpsters and then that smell what if you're one if somebody decides to put in a cafe and um has food remnants that smell is going to carry over into the development um so is there going to be restrictions on what can be put in said dumpsters well I can tell you they can be there's restrict in a flex building there is no food service there is no restaurant there is no Cafe so so when it comes to the storage units um or the Self Storage um is there going to be restrictions on times of access or is it going to have parking lots to the point sorry um light Night Lights to the point where the entire thing is a stadium and when I look out my front door I see what looks to be like giant Stadium off in in the in the uh you know off of the uh side of the development I mean there's you know some places that have excessive lighting like this I don't know how high the lighting is going to be for all this parking but I mean i' like I like the fact the reason I I went out there is for Country dark I like to be able to sit in my my backyard with a fire pit and and not have gigantic lighting off in the distance is there going to be restrictions or is there going to be you know some type of um you know time that the lighting's on yeah Mr chair so I would make the recommendation of the board if they were to act favorably on the use in the skit aite plan we have had similar type of self storage and those type of buildings that should but residential instead of wall mount the lighting facing outwards pole mounted facing in towards the building with house side shields downward facing the new stuff has all the cut off in the back is that something Ken the applicant would agree to yes same thing with restrictions on um roof you usage I know it sounds silly but I don't know how many times I've seen a building go up and then all of a sudden for some reason whatever those you know um uh multi-use people are doing some somehow or another there's things happening on the roof so um also in the storage what can be stored there's got to be restrictions on flammables hazardous reactive costic Etc I don't want like a Chernobyl happening you know from somebody storing something the wrong way um right next to my development there going to be restrictions there there are there's statutory restrictions on the use of self storage and I've had the privilege of working with this board on Self Storage restrictions here in town I anticipate that we'll have a very similar a similar protocol for for this site very good I'm just finding out about this tonight so sorry I have a ton of questions last thing I have for now and I'll wait for the next meeting water and power usage will it be a generator um when's that going to fire up and what fuel will it use natural gas or diesel been quite candid with you we have not even approached the introduction of a generator for this facility okay that's all thank you thank you sir anyone else from the public come on up please of the engineer only thank you my name is Jackie Skiller do you swear the testim me give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do state your name spell your last and provide your address Jackie skinder ski l l n d r my business address is 1422 US Highway 9 South um we're a 32y old business in in Howell Township Thursday I just brought the Marco light property so I am very very proud to do business in this town however I'm a little worried about my septic we're purely septic I spoke to Tony Rodriguez we're never getting a sewer never getting waterline how are you guys going to make it that my septic dreams where is your property um if you pull up the other map you know the only thing I'm going to say is the board can't when you use that the board cannot see what your pointing to so it's not helpful ma'am ma'am wait hold on what I'm saying is it's not helpful because the people who decide this aren't seeing what you're pointing at we're the three buildings in the middle of all those wonderful trees yeah I knew where she we need your block and loot 1422 us9 it's the Marite building which is just North basically of like the chapter house by the by The Jug Handle right we're we tried to get a sewer we're not applicable to get a sewer Tony Rodriguez um from New Jersey American Water had told us that we're landlocked in where is the sewer line that you say that we can hook into and what's the cost to a little business like us to go into that because what's going to happen is as you build and they build next to us and everything else all the surfaces that we've had for all these years and there is Clay where are they draining into we Flood now very very badly in the back of us we're not you want to respond to the what the anticipated impact on a septic system that is located at the Marik property would be from this because you're pushing all the water North according to what your storm management plan is Charlie yeah so what you've seen to this point is a drastic difference than what they originally proposed as you know over the 7year period um they're required to comply with the township stormw Control Ordinance and also the state rules um there is Wetlands adjacent to the to proposed development there is a water course um Mr zner have you investigated whether there's any flood Hazard area repairin uh approvals required for your stone water discharge we are in the process of submitting for our fhj determination on our site uh we've done the study and Analysis of where we believe it comes to so it doesn't impact our area of development uh but on the ban and Meadow Brook we're actually also looking to talk to D about that wouldn't affect us but that might have even more of a significant flood Hazard area on ajoining property so so and we're this you're the board is hearing this for a use fair and So it's b b for Kit application so if you do real favorably and this goes to site plan Township did just also this summer adopt uh a revised stormw Control Ordinance which was as a result of the state adopting Inland flood rules as part of that there's increased you have to design basically for future rainfall intensity as part of your storm water management design so I would say if the board is inclined to act favorably on the use variants that they're going to also have to satisfy those requirements as part of their site plan approval what you see before you now I'm satisfied as far as from a stormw perspective that it's realistic for the what's being proposed there's still some odds and ends that need to be cleaned up it's a drastic difference than what they original proposed when they first came in uh with their first um development concept to this board that's all I have thank you thank you anyone else one at a time here we go Andy hello hi do you swear the test money you give will be the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth to help you guide I do please state your name for the record spell your last and provide your address and Telo biano B A NCO I live in the Tuscana Community 59 awood Court been a proud uh homeowner there for 21 years so this has an impact for our future um couple of questions I had that really were asked but I didn't hear any answers one the time of the operation accessibility when is this thing going to close is it going to be up all night I'm going to hear trucks and coming in and now what is the specific time of use there will be operations testimony presented to the board it's not this witness so we'll go through that you don't that's the next witness what we're going to hear correct I don't I Mr chair we'll have to take a break I did not prepare I have one of the three Partners here this evening I did not all the way Witnesses were prepared that's an 8 Hour Endeavor I did not prepare his testimony I prepared the two others we'll follow your guidance if you insist on him being next we'll have it's prudent Mr P this is a very large application yes it is and it has an effect on the community fully understand it I did it in our mind it was engineer traffic architect operations planner you're seeing it differently we take well this is not the planning board this is the Zoning Board of adjustment and you're here for a reason yeah we usually hear operational yes early in the testimonies that kind of guid is into the rest of it so I concur all right Mr zna can you answer the question or you're going to wait until operations but operations is not Mr okay sir can you ask the next question then please and you'll have opportunity to ask more questions when operations is heard okay uh without trying to get into comment I'm curious was a a market analysis done for the requirement of such I mean I look up and down route nine I see stores that are just abandoned not in use Mr just wondering you know in time yeah this might seem like it's needed but then it just becomes uh abandoned the analysis that's done by our clients the market analysis done by our clients is proprietary to them I can tell you that we didn't spend the last seven years working with the town to come up with this plan without having a strong sense of what the market demand for it is okay thank you can that be made available to the that's proprietary and honestly that's not really a land use um Factor the board doesn't make decision based on the economics it's really up to the you the applicant whether they want to take that economic risk that's that's not a factor for the board to a question regarding the um for planes face inside I understand there going to be trees and burm there is there also a consideration for fence kind of like what Home Depot has they have a natural looking fence and then trees creates a nice obscurity to the structure itself Mr Martin a few moments ago did ask that we have a fence plan we agreed that we'll introduce a fence plan and question regarding the footprint the envelope can that be push back a little more I mean 50 ft is nice but again that's pretty close still to our development the 50 Foot Dimension is the town's ordinance it's the it's the requirement of the ordinance and that's what the applicants prepared to meet question regarding construction I assume all the construction vehicles as this thing is being developed will come from Route 9 nothing coming into Fort ples for the most part unless you know certain Landscaping things need to be done the actual that's that plan is developed with the police department and the Construction office at a later date we have no intentions of using Fort Plains Road for any purpose the Bungalows themselves uh what phase does he plan to knock those things down and the the removal of the bungals we bring it to this board's attention and the Public's attention to demonstrate that there will not be a third use on the property but the all of the regulations are John can tell you there were complaints that were filed they were resolved with the uh zoning officer we are going to be in court placing it on the record all of that is has nothing to do with the timeline here there's an aggressive timeline to bring all of that to a conclusion properly and it's not tied to any phasing of this project actually you bring up a good point assuming things go smooth with the board here what is your anticipated timeline for this development don't have one because the approval process is lengthy there's a use variance followed by site plan County planning board fre old soil D do water sewer approval in your experience what time are we looking at anywhere from 1 to 5 years lastly that the land that you are not using allegedly would that be considered giving back to the uh the town for preservation maybe a credit for some of the building that would be nice I have no author no authority to make that statement I I'll record it and bring it to my client's attention that this one of the neighbors has asked that we dedicate the remainder of the property to the town I would would just state that the balance of the site is very heavily encumbered environmentally and I'm not 100% sure the town's going to want it that's correct like I don't know that we want to take on more property than we have to long as we don't build on I'm just saying it's it's wet there's streams it's very heavily encumbered so I don't know that the town's going to want to take it all right that's all my questions thank you all thank you come on up please Andy hi ly you swear the testimony you give will be the truth old truth nothing but the truth that help you go I do state your name spell your last and your address Lan hn 31 Baron meow Lane my question is can you guarantee none of this water basin is going to overflow down into the stream at all because I'm in talks right now with the engineering department about a development that was built point0 Woods that floods us out every time it rains and what it does is it washes out our dirt Lane which goes down into the stream there so you take all those homes and all that stuff out is great but can you guarantee none of that water is going to overflow because we're dealing with flooding as it is and the township doesn't take care of our Lan we do we have to pay to maintain it all so I'm concerned about the water because I'm fighting it now yeah I don't know the circumstance that you're facing at the moment yeah uh this storm water design meets all the current rules and it would reduce flow from this area towards the banow brook so we would be sending less water uh towards I'm not sure where you were located but towards on 30 I'm on Baron metal Lane itself next to the swim club right it's a dirt Lane and I'm sure engineering pass the same development the same engineering the whole nine yards but the residents go and punch out holes and it's flooding our properties out which is illegal I'm already talking to D with the state about it and they're going to step in if it's not resolved so I'm just trying to make sure I don't have to battle this again you know what I'm saying so I hear what you're saying and it not not only part of our design but obviously it's important that what we build functions properly yeah cuz it's it's it as it is now it just floods out it comes across for Plains Road that Stream area so it's totally wet we we sit on Wetlands as it is our water table is high you can't go down three feet without touching water where we are so water is a big issue in that whole area even even Tuscana was an old you know blueberry farm that was always flooded out you know so we just sit on water so we're just a little concerned about all right yes that's it thank you Miss anyone else from the public would like to ask a question of the engineer come on up Andy hello you swear the testimony you give will be the truth all truth nothing but the truth so I hope you got I do please state your name spell your last to provide your you could raise that mic to you my name is Zachary bolognia b o l o g n a I live at 35 West Main Street in Farmingdale um where do you live it's in Far uh Farmingdale 35 West Main Street you have to talk into the mic and you're talking to the board Main Street in fing okay um I'm just curious um if the if the proposed construction area is that elevated uh the area in yellow compared to the area in green is that how does that relate height wise because if you're planning on building in the GRE in the yellow area and put putting hard surfaces down will that funnel more water into the green area um when it rains or if there's a hurricane God forbid looking for what is the the topographical conditions in the yellow area and compared to the green green area yep correct so I believe I spoke to this uh to some extent the general uh direction of grading as it sits now is that that most of that yellow area drains towards the north towards the green area and eventually to the Bano Brook there's some small portion of the site now which does drain to Route n uh we are collecting essentially entirety of the site and we're using basins both above ground and underground to control storm water it will flow towards the B abandon Meadow Brook but it will meet all regulations on control of runoff in you know recharge of water into the ground where we can we talked about the soils and uh little discharge at a lower rate than present okay okay that's all all right thank you sir can I just add a followup question to that for Mr Zinger so um the appan is proposing to raise a site with the devel site development correct there's a fairly significant grading but I wouldn't uh the end that would be furthest to the left does come up from its current grade uh some portions actually in the Middle come down a little bit and so I don't know that I would I don't know that saying we're raising it as the best overall description but certainly some portions are being raised you haven't done like a cut fill analysis or anything like that at this stage right we have not I looked at it because there's no we have not done cutf analysis so the the site is as you had North is being elevated they are proposing underground infrastructure for storm War management purposes on the west side of the building so the bottom part of the screen adjacent to the passenger vehicle parking spaces for the flex bace so I just want to give that Clarity um but Mr zner everything as far as impervious coverage on the site is collected into some type of storm warer management system and a and a basin before it then is ultimately discharged right nothing freely flows off the the impervious area into that green space it's collected attenuated and then discharged to the water courses correct that is correct yes I think that's just I want to make that clear for the board thank you Charlie anyone else from public would like to ask a question of the engineer okay not seeing any motion to close we have a motion to close do we have a second second all in favor all right e at this time the public portion of this part of the hearing is now closed okay are we go Mr zner do we any more questions for Mr zner no Eileen we're going to take 10 okay the board will now take a 10-minute recess they'll be back at 910 thank you Eileen we're ready to go the Z board will now reconvene Mr P Mr chair board members we're going to ask if this board will continue the application to the evening of September 9th and we'll begin our presentation on September 9th with your permission with a detailed operations presentation on both the flex building and the self- storage building um before I have a couple of other points I'd like to make but is the 9th of September acceptable to the board for that purpose yes okay our what I would anticipate is there's a couple of other things on your agenda that we'll get a good portion of time I have four more witnesses operations testimony which I have a sense is going to be detailed and time consuming followed by Mr vesi testimony with regard to traffic and circulation he's heard the questions that came from the board and we'll make sure he's prepared followed by the architect presentation of the buildings and then the last witness is Chris CHR Kone I do not have Christine Kone on the 9th the most that we would accomplish on that night is the other three fact Witnesses and then we would look for a date a little bit later in the fall would that work Mr chair that works Mr P what's most important is we understand what's going in why it's going in and what it's going to be used for there were a couple of questions that came from the board and board's professionals I want to make the commitment to to have the responses to those when we return Charlie asked that we have the and Jennifer asked that we have the sewer capacity of the line going through our property identified we know who the users are we'll find out what the total and who can tie into it Etc yep right Miss gillander mentioned yeah number of vehicles that could be potentially stored on the property types of vehicles and where they would be stored what they what overnight parking is being proposed com a description of what type of anev charging station will we have the buffer behind Lots 10 and 11 we need the information from Mr Hutchinson's office identifying whether it's listed as a commercial or residential use there was the chair pointed out an interest in identifying the safe traffic flow and circulation on site Mr bur asked if we could separate the two sites we G actually had a little conversation on that in the back which we'll go over um Charlie asked that we meet with the water company meet with New Jersey American water and ask if they would give us a commitment for firefighting capacity for the buildings those were the questions I recorded as we progressed so commitment is to have those responses when we return with your permission we'll ask that be carried to the 9th without the requirement of re notice or Republic there was a request for offence plan as well with the fence plan thank you also Mr Pete was there a um Woodlands management because I don't know if we got saw one yet that would be probably at site plan oh site plan okay you know we you know that we do these things we met with the fire chief twice we went to the environmental commission twice we've met with Sherie actually on the site I I walked this property with her oh boy last summer we walked this entire site and then we've also been working with with her on it we'll be we'll be certain that we continue working with your and then Mr P you know the public the engineer the first gentleman that came up before us asked about maybe Shifting the property a little bit if you have to go a little smaller to make that happen to alleviate some of the issues that may be for the residents across the way that's something that should be looked at Mr chair I thank you for sharing that comment with us I can tell you that small is the painful word to my client but I appreciate your cander I certainly do anything else no okay so anyone that's here for BA 20-18 Fort Plains Partners LLC this application is being carried to September 9th with an expiration date of October 12 2024 with no further notice thank you Mr chair good night everyone good night Mr than you okay when's the next meeting September 9th okay well covered got have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn we have a second all in favor all right all right Eileen we're adjourned thank you have a good night your I