I think so yeah cuz I have all the emails here and then this I e good evening ladies and gentlemen I'm sorry for the delay we had some procedural things that we were trying to clear up before the start of the meeting welcome to tonight's LPA meeting for um oh my note says January I guess it's March the 11th um first thing on the agenda is a roll call please Sher cobon here Patrick fley Tony Hammond here Susan rafanello here James Ron here Vice chair Lori L present and chair Deb Gill here thank you the second thing is uh the Pledge of Allegiance and um Ty can you lead us please Al to the of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you okay the next thing on the agenda is additions and deletions uh emergency additions and deletions to the agenda we do have an item that we're it's actually two items that we're having to delete this evening um it is the soldier property items which is tab hang on don't have the right tab number C and D um we still have an advertising issue with that so we are going to postpone it till our April meeting uh so we can make sure that we have I I apologize um so we make sure that we have the correct advertising for the public out there um it'll be April 8th April what is it April 8th April the 8th is our next LPA meeting so we'll have it at that meeting if you'd like to if you would like to stay and talk during public comment because it's no longer on the AG agenda you may but it would only go for tonight your testimony or your might be better heard on April the 8th I do apologize we thought we had it all right and discovered about 10 minutes ago we don't that here or will it in a no it's always here not unless something happens in this building and I'm hoping not at 5:30 at 5:30 yes it's our next LPA meeting which is April the 11 oh I'm sorry April the 8th at 5:30 it should be a Monday night okay okay do I have any other deletions or additions to the agenda no I have none from staff do I have any from um the board hearing none moving on okay public comment is next these items are items that we do not have on our agenda tonight as I just said if you have a comment about Soldier and you want to do it tonight you may uh we are holding it to a three minute but you do not it would probably in my opinion only in my opinion your comments would be better presented at the April meeting it's up to you I'm just trying to save you some time if coming okay any anybody signed up for a public comment I haven't signed up I signed up for one of the agenda items I speak now uh in public comment because it's not one of the agenda yes yes sir State please state your name my name is Kevin O'Neal and just as a point of order you said there's a three minute time limit I'm here tonight representing 44 unit owners of Bay Harbor condominium and I'm wondering if you could extend that a couple minutes um do we accept that that's what's done at Council level usually you can you can wave it to give him a little more time I I have submitted some written comments to you we are going to be out of town on the 8th that happens to be the date of the uh total solar eclipse and we have a son that lives right in totality so we are visiting him and we won't be able to be back but I didn't want to miss the opportunity yes that's that those are mine I'm not going to read that for you because I don't do well just reading but I'm going to use it as a point of reference as I talk to you and he may I make a request yes um this document um if you'd like to present it for our next meeting please don't hand it out the day of the meeting we usually don't accept packets like this the day of the meeting okay that's a point well taken okay would you like me to uh collect those and pass them out again uh that's up to you I would suggest emailing it to the clerk yes for Al marada even as early as tonight tomorrow and say this is for the April 8th meeting and that way we'll all get it in plenty of time to review it that would be great thank you thank you Susan that's a better not a problem and I want to I want to thank you for the opportunity you know I know that volunteer work is has no rewards uh whatsoever other than you're helping the community and I appreciate your time I am um as I said I'm representing Bay Harbor condominium we are a property that's adjacent to the uh property that's in question right across from SE Beach and the request for that property is to move that uh to a future land use map from the current conservation uh zoning to a commercial fishing zoning designation and we are opposed to that um and we know that right now that that land is a what's called a non-conforming use of the land it's legal and it it took me a while to get my wrap my head around that how can you have a legal use of a of a land when you're non-conforming but I understand it's because uh properties are grandfathered in when there's a change in zoning um and when before the village was incorporated It was a commercial fishing Zone and when the village was incorporated it it was converted to a a Conservation District I'm not an attorney I don't know what the ISA marata process is but in most communities across the country uh people that are grandfathered in or property that's grandfathered in from one zone to another lose that grandfathering when the property is sold or when the property becomes abandoned and the rules are vary across the country and I'm not sure what that is here but if that's the case to change that now so that it becomes and I think the words in the the staff recommendation were legal or legally um to to do that now is is um preventing the land to be to revert back to a conservation use so I'd like to just talk about a little bit there's there's a couple of things that that I like to talk about one of the uh I use the the uh villages documentation uh to put my remarks together so the first thing I'd like to uh just give you just a sample of what's in your documentation it says that this is talking about zoning that uses listed herein are permitted on a conditional use or prohibited unless the director of planning and development services determines by written application that the proposed use exhibits similar characteristics to a listed uh permitted use in which case the proposed use shall be in the same manner as the use of with similar characteristics so and again it's non-conforming but legal right now and what we are concerned about is that once the if if this property changes if that's the rule here if the property changes hands and it converts to a a conservation Zone that we Zone we will lose the opportunity in perpetuity to ever have that parcel of land U be recognized as a commercial or as a Conservation District or Zone and uh um the one of the purposes obviously of a conservation zoning district is to ensure the long-term uh preservation and restoration of environmentally sensitive habitat and if you've driven by seot Beach you know that that area is one of the lowest areas in the in the village and it's highly susceptible to uh hurricane damage you know we just got done raising the road 18 in supposed to help with that but if con cons a district on the opposite side of uh US1 there would certainly help mitigate any future damage from a a hurricane three or four or even a five that would have a if if we ever had a direct impact there so one of the arguments that the applicants make for making this change is that well look at the property it's it's it's a Conservation District but there is nothing there worth saving there are three native species all all by the way mangroves and that's it there's there's no Wildlife other than the Stray iguana uh there's no um you know the land is pretty Barren it's it's created in the first place from Phil so there's no uh environmental purpose for trying to keep it as a Conservation District or Zone well I'm on the other side of that the and I'm going to go with the reason that there's no substantial Wildlife there no uh you know plants and uh Greenery there that that is growing is because of the use that it's had over the last 30 years as a commercial District I list and I I've shown you pictures of how the the current uh and the immediate since I can't speak forever but since about 1996 uh the land has been used at least in the manner I've attached a few pictures there to show you some of the things it it gets heavy use it's heavy machinery almost every day they they stack um lobster traps crab traps at ate high they stay there for all the during off seon and some of them actually stay there all year um they what the other thing that goes on there that's non-conforming and uh not even legal is they allow things to happen on that property that should not be and from time to time my predecessors my former board presidents myself included have uh filled out the Complaint Form to the village and we usually see some action after that but there's been a uh a practice of allowing um some very um questionable uh living facilities on that property um old motor homes uh campers tents everything else with no apparent U toilet facilities uh that's that one example of a of probably a Zone violation in anywhere in the in the village there's debris piles uh even today there if you drive by and some of those pictures are on there and they'll stay there year round uh they'll come and go sometimes they take that that debris they don't want to deal with and they'll put them between uh the village right of way and the walking path and then when we call on it what we say why don't you take care of this and the village says well we can't we have to see them do it and so the next week or two the trucks come out and the village trucks come out and clear up the mess but in the meanwhile all they have to do is wait a few bit a little bit and if they have extra tires sofas anything else that's where they end up but that also happens right on that property so the rationale that we should approve this because it it's not a Conservation District now and and never will be is is it's it's a false uh rationale the the other thing that I am going to have to ask you to wrap up you've had five minutes okay I will um let me get to the um the staff recommendations uh the staff recommendations they they hit three areas and without any back without any document ation in the staff analysis at least the one that was published um on January 8th for that meeting or January 6th whatever that date was um talks about compatibility with the comprehensive plan policies it absolutely is not compatible with the plan policies your plan policies call for environmental issues to be dealt with and that this does not do it another one is that it preserves uh working waterfronts and and they use the um they did put some data in there to show the size of this property being so small uh less than 1% of all the commercial fishing um Zone in in Isa marata and that for that reason that we ought to make that change too you know bring it into the fold let everything be uh commercial fishing quite the opposite is true it's such a small percentage and there are there are spaces other than that spot to door traps that we ought to be looking at it from the other point of view saying that it's not compatible with the neighborhood the um let me finish up with one statement from your um from your uh zoning uh regulations and that is that I want to I want to read it rather than get it wrong the they you give a list of criteria what you should be considering when you're addressing these zoning change recommendations and at the very bottom of that you say however in no event shall an amendment be approved which will result in an adverse Community change and I contend that that with this change although the the the current use may not change immediately that there is probably a process in place that at some point this will no longer be a non-conforming use uh property if you allow it to stay as a conservation uh Zone and then it will revert back to a conservation Zone if you make the change now to a commercial fishing it is going to be commercial fishing now and forever it'll never go back you are surrounded on three sides if you think of that that location as a square ocean being on one side and along the ocean we have that commercial fishing property but on the other three sides and actually there's there's two spots on on the ocean side it's all residential some of it's multi-use or multi family residential other is single family other is uh duplex uh family but you're affecting a whole lot of residents if if this gets changed to commercial it opens up other things that are involved in commercial and you know there's some sub uses that would allow construction of facilities up to 35 ft tall and right now there are no um very minimal uh seaw walls there and if that if they build seaw walls that means they have to bring in fill then all of a sudden they have enough property there to actually build and construct things so I suspect that the rationale for the request for the change is so that they can sell this property without having to worry about uh having it revert back to a Conservation District and maybe that's too much of a conspiracy theory but we worry that there will be uh just a whole host of these buildings constructed in short time and that right now hundreds of people have the view of the ocean and if that's obstructed our property values go down tax revenue for you will go down thank you sir and I again I appreciate and I appreciate the extended time uh my full comments are here but like I said I I don't speak well from Reading I and I couldn't have read that any quicker what I just did thank you you're welcome we need to move on thank you anybody anybody else are you speaking on this property yes okay make sure the clerk has info you you need to fill out a sheet for the clerk also I F it out for she can just change it to com okay fine thank you your name sir my name is Brian Skelly and I've got a residence at on El Capitan drive directly adjacent to the proposed uh property that uh is ultimately uh looks like it's heading towards commercial fishing uh designation I I appreciate the comments the gentleman made from be I think he very effective and hit hit the spot on quite a few of these uh topics that will affect the community I've been coming to uh this location since I've been a teenager I've watched for the past 50 years uh when my parents actually purchased the uh town home at Port Antigua and uh watched the slow degradation of Admiral's Cove occur over the last 50 years and a lot of it has been due to to development and the uh and the undersight of of watching uh and protecting this area the uh that lined Edge along that roadway used to be uh filled with mangroves there was uh I've watched it year after year slowly degrade watching and hoping that our view doesn't change eventually looking out over the ocean the uh one thing that kind of concerns me is the the petitioner mentions that uh there's no marine life uh protected by the state or federally protected that's uh any longer in that area or that they've seen in that area this used to be a thriving Marine aquatic Metropolis there I used to swim it when I was a kid uh spent a lot of time in the water there uh boating fishing swimming diving the uh there's a submerged uh barge that's down there that used to be filled with Aquatic Life in that area as the degradation occurred the uh the pollution was part of the uh part of the cause of this and uh I've just got a feeling that it's going to continue to degrade to the point where uh there'll be a point of no return I I think changing this Conservation Area over to commercial fishing is kind of like putting a nail in in a coffin it's going to be the end of what's left of a small area of Conservation Area that we have left here in Admiral's Cove once upon a time it was a it was a an aquatic area that was uh a site for people to come down and see and really cherish uh even with the residences the newer residences that have come into the area I think they've uh I talked to them about what Ed to be here and now I'm seeing what the future has in store for it which I think is uh is is literally I think it's a crime that's what's happening it's it's a shame that these uh this area is going to go to to a Comm commercial fishing uh designation um some of the points that there's 18 unit owners that are in our in our development there um one of the unit owners and I'll reiterate some of the things that uh currently there's a there's violations of the current zoning and land use that's there with some of the derc vessels that have been there we've petitioned before we've approached uh Council toh take care of that we've had some action in the past but uh not as much as would like the sanitation and environmental impact has been has been severe on this the water quality of Admiral's Cove is uh is nowhere near what it used to be the uh the protected Wildlife species we see lots of Manatee come through this area there're they still come through the area but uh not as plentiful as what we used to see there's marine life everything from tropical marine life that we used to see from swimming and diving in this area to uh to some of the some of the uh protected fish that are on you need to finish up that are out there today um I I just think that uh the council in the planning zone need to listen to the uh to the people that live there on that site and are going to deal with this commercial uh change that's going to happen to our environment I I think it's I don't see any any good happening from it I'd rather see it stay as a as a uh Conservation Area a protected area for What Little that's left there let's let's preserve it that's what the keys are about is preserving our area not not ruining it I think uh I think moving forward with a commercial license designation or commercial use Fisher designation there is uh is just going to degrade it to to its ultimate end thank you sir thank [Applause] you sir is there anybody else that would like to speak about this item or any other item that's not on the agenda yes ma'am oh well we're not there yet no on any other item sometimes people have things from last month or something we had some people signning up uh on um Zoom oh you have some general comment well we had people who signed up specifically for item see they may or may not want to speak now but they're welcome too um van go ahead then ma'am you uh good evening van Caden H Isam marada um it it hurts me to hear these people have so much fear about what's going on in this room and it it scares me also that the seven of you don't seem to be uh uh trying to defend Isa marada the way you should be now that there's a mo a movement in the council to completely eliminate the LPA and allow the the council to take over as the LPA and uh I was here from the beginning so I can tell you that that's a real bad idea because the council at one point was the the council they were the LPA and they were the land acquisition committee there were 15 chairs all sit by the same five people and there was a 4year uh term limit on the seat and in those four years they have managed to to uh make problems for us that we're still looking at today a matter of fact several of the things that we're going to discuss later on you know about the church and Sharon Mahoney and and various other uh Property Owners around town were done without the notification or or knowledge of the people that own the property and that's not going to get any better if you don't stand up for yourselves and defend the the uh LPA as a useful tool to advise the council with and it's it's uh it's going to be very hurtful to the people that come uh later if there's not any keys left to enjoy and what this last gentleman just spoke of I mean I've watched that place I mean I came here when I was seven years old I was right there with Tony and and we know what it used to be and it used to be a lot uh uh more laidback and laay fair than it is today because now the zeros have come out and once the zeros come out then the Pirates come out of the woodwork and and that's where we're at now and we must defend against that at all costs um not only not only at sojourn but all across the village this is is a uh the general trend is to try to put as much development as possible into each square foot of property available so that they can get the maximum amount of money out of that square foot of property and this is not conducive to ISA marada the sport fishing capital of the world and I've called attention to this for the last 25 years and the higher the property prices go the more acute the problem is and unless you staunchly oppose it unless you as staunchly uh defend yourselves as the LPA then we're going to have a definite problem in the near future I hear the I hear the buzzer going off and I you've run me off of here many times but but as politely as possible but uh I I would urge you I mean I'm going to I'm going to speak to all the rest of the agenda items as they come up tonight but I want you to to uh dig your heels in and defend yourselves as the LPA and resolve not to be absorbed and subsumed into the Village Council thank you very much thank you did did you well you're welcome to come back so we should all come back I yes it should have been but if you if you if you want it if you want if you wanted to have it legally right we're going to have to table it tonight so yes well of course we want legal but there's some important people that came here tonight I understand that you know and that's the reason why I'm allowing you to speak tonight if you'd like yes and then did you fill out a form this is just public comment and then the item that was deleted right right well it's public comment on the item that was deleted and anything else that we're not speaking of tonight got so did you fill it out one out yet just public comment and question okay she will need a form filled out even for public comment that's all that's fine your name like both the gentlemen have already your name please Lisa emmer I live in Port Antigua thank you um like both of gentlemen have said I ask why aren't you defending the village we haven't had a chance to speak yet pardon me okay but my qu I mean we all want to know why isn't it defended more why is the development gotten just out of hand this is a precious commodity down here and many times the money just says well we can just be made up we can just make more of it it's not and it is so obvious that the damage that has been done down here by all of the money and the development is becoming so obvious some of the reports about The Fish spinning around in the waters not good stuff all the sawfish F being dead 50 over 50 of them not good this is a big deal we're the fishing capital of the world this is Paradise and it is being killed by greed and I don't care what anybody says about it it is a big deal if we lose our fish and we already are our coral reefs are dying no no scientist needs to go to on a coral reef from tomorrow from 20 years ago and not see the difference and this is what we we H we live on our tourism our fishing it's a big deal what is happening over 50 species of sawfish found dead in our our keys the grouper spinning out of control the Stingrays on top of the water um The Mangrove snappers with worms in them that have never been seen before this is serious stuff and it can't be just fixed how is it going to be fixed it has to like this development all this stuff has to stop somebody has to stand up for this precious Paradise we have and the village here and this is Monroe County the whole thing but we're in the village here now it has to be stopped and stood up for and hopefully it's not too late the damage hopefully isn't already done so the question I have is why aren't you standing up I'd like to hear it and I'm sure a lot lot of us would and we'll be back thank you Anita Anita would you like to call the names and see if the people want to speak tonight or and if you if you just want to wait on your comments just say No not tonight and yes I'd like to see you back hi Harris Ty I just want to remind everybody the this item the so item isn't on um we risk confusing the record by taking comment now when it should be taken when we actually open the item so I'll Reserve all my comments and rebuttal to what we've heard and what I've seen come through the emails till April thank you next given that we're an Advisory Board as opposed to the city council I'm not sure that we have a record as such um we are obviously can remember comments that are made tonight and carry them forward at April 8th and consider them then as well but I also urge everybody to come that can come on April 8 to speak but that is correct correct because we're not in a quasi judicial sitting we're an advisory committee only thank you okay everyone who signed up for that item has spoken okay there anybody else in the audience that yes sir I don't have my name on there I can fill it out but I'd like to speak if I can please come up and speak she she will need a sheet before you're done and just state your name I had this big long state your name import Antigua I've been coming to the keys for 54 years and over those years I've seen it slowly slowly deteriorate land gone water quality fish gone where I live in the lagoon we have manate sharks parrot fish we have Snappers Tarpon goli groupers everything if you they say there's no life there my kids have been coming here they're 30 years old and 26 years old I want my grand kids to be able to come here and say and I could tell them hey we used to go to those mangroves are you guys going to let that go away or you going to save that so my grandkids and everybody else's kids and grandkids can see how the keys was many years ago I don't understand like the young lady just said this shouldn't mean beyond the docket of letting a con Conservation Area be turned into commercial fishing never in my days of I this is just it's it's very unprofessional and it's very sad that's all I I you know so that I don't get upset as far as this happening emotionally I hope you can find it in your all's Hearts to forget about this and let this go because I want my family my kids Future Families future people to come down here and see what the keys was it is it is slowly going away and that's not why I move down here and stay here and and that's what I have to say for tonight thank you thank you Jeff please come back next month anybody else want to speak this evening yes ma'am come on up Jeff you need to fill out a form for Anita please Jeff you'll need to fell out of form also herina zavar Port Antigua I am only the the Lagoon is there and then El Capitan a canal and then our house and I just I want to agree with everything that everybody else has said and especially conservation and they're totally right why even bother to have zoning if every time somebody comes with a few bucks it's changed and that that's wrong and and the other as everyone else has said the keys are slowly dying this is not what we came down here for either and I've we've been down here 38 years not 50 or but 38 years and it is it's sad and it's going to keep going that way if you keep letting development happen we need more green areas than we do um buildings we need more pars time I'd rather see that and if if we stop what's going on on the sojan property right now the mangroves would probably come back it would probably be wooded and it's conservation it and and the illegal activities that are going on on that property need to be stopped cuz we see it all the time and no body does anything thank you anybody anybody else care to speak to this evening yes sir fill just fill one out name is uh George armesto I've been coming to the keys for 50 years uh I'm an avid diver fisherman I've seen a deteriorate like everybody else has uh I don't want to repeat what everybody has already said and commented on but I will tell you after Hurricane Irma all those traps from the commercial guys came across our properties toilets I mean the the filth is out of this world we have trash coming into our property constantly the commercial boats speed they don't go slow They smash her docks uh there's no respect and you know that's all I got to say I'll come back April 9 we'll be stronger and more organized thank you thank you the the forms are over there on the table if you guys need one anybody else anybody else last call okay one more yeah my name is Cameron Davis I live in Port Antigua just uh right down the street from elcap on cour Contessa I see a few people I know here I know your father built that property the commercial or not well not the building you know the he land the helicopter on or I'm not mistaken sorry s I've seen you Midway though um I like a previous gentleman said I don't want to repeat everything I already said but I mean that's the last thing we need is to rezone stuff for you know more you know commercial use and um you know that's I mean and we need we don't need another I mean not that Laura Robbies you know I mean everyone's got their own opinion on them but we don't need another Laura Robbies right there in front of our neighborhood with a million cars and boats coming up and down the canal all the time and you know and possible you noise pollution and traffic accidents lowering the speed limit again just like they did between the robbes and Bud Mar's um just all the other things that go with it I mean the keys really are dying death of a Thousand Cuts it breaks my heart and um yeah I guess that's about it um you said you you're going to revisit this issue on April 8th yes okay all right thank you okay that being said unless I have one last take public comments closed I don't see any hands so oh don't let me talk you into it right you're talk me into it hello I'm Fred Schmid um I live on the Grand Canal in Port Antigua as well and and what I wanted to say there's a lot of marine life we we see manties almost every day you know big Tarpon porp has come up and down there occasional crocodile you know there's there's all kinds of marine life and then we have the commercial fishing boats that you know screamed and supposed to be a no wake zone but they're barreling down cuz they're going to work they you know so we I don't think think we need you know more commercial fishing boats especially on that Canal don't thank you thank you and I'll fill out of form thank you all right public comment is closed we have a hand on oh we have a hand up sorry yes we have somebody on Zoom Maria hi my name is mar Newman and I live at 193 L Capitan I face The Cove we've been living there for about 2 years um the lady who we bought the property from uh told me that the lady who originally built the house on El Capitan had formed a group that was a conservation group in the 1990s and I've been trying to find the literature to substantiate this but apparently there was a move to put a marina um our concern uh my husband and myself is that we moved there and we you know we paid uh for a beautiful view but the most important thing to us is how beautiful our mangroves are that are all on across on that sojourn property and the property next door we uh also know that there are going to be building on the property next door our biggest fear is that we are turning this conservation property into a commercial piece of property that eventually will ask for another rezoning and then it'll be a giant Marina just as it was being fought for in the 1990s I'm extremely concerned that some of these issues will come up for rezoning because I think that you are going to be allowing on this property I'm not quite sure about the uh exact uh zoning but commercial property um they can apply probably for docks for these commercial boats and there are already plenty of commercial boats traing through here every single day it's not only the the boats that traes through here uh that belong there at the nighttime but it's the boats that bring in their catch and sell to Mr Lobster and down you know that area there because they do buy from boats that don't belong in the area yes boats do come down the canal fairly fast they don't you know take into account no wake zones and they also uh don't take into account we put up a sign to please no wake uh for manatees we bought a sign we put it on our dock but uh there is life there is you know lots of uh fish life there's lots of manatees that come in I have lots of pictures I even had a photograph when we were painting our roof of a gasoline spill because they do sell gasoline and sometimes you see a cloud on the water um if you have something that's been zoned for conservation then it should stay conservation okay it shouldn't revert back to commercial thank you for never mind thank you okay anybody else on Zoom one no one else all right thank you so public general public comment is now closed moving on with the agenda uh the next thing is our consent agenda which was the minutes from Monday we only have a little long but sure got push uh who was it gotta get rid of your name Andy hello he hung up yeah they don't want to yeah there you go all right so we're on the consent agenda we have uh the minutes from uh Monday January the 8th I need a motion move to approve second um roll call do we need roll call or can we do all in favor do we need roll call or do we can we do all in favor do roll call roll call Tony H yes sh cson yes Patrick Foley yes Susan Rafel yes J Ry yes Lori vant yes and chair Deb Gillis yes okay next is public hearings um and we have have the first up um most of the I think all of them that are left on the evening there's at least two items that go together we're if I can get you to read the two items together we'll discuss it and then we'll vote separately um Allison would you do the first two please I think Jen Jennifer is going to read it for you have oh we're switching I'll read sorry I'm us we changed our minds okay so the first one is an ordinance Amendment considering the request of hvs 82 Investments LLC to amend the future land use map of parcel 00415 84 z- 0000000000 uh the it's an ordinance of alam marada Village of islands Florida considering the request of Sharon Mahoney on behalf of hvs 82 Investments LLC to amend The Village's future land use map from residential conservation RC to mix use mu for the subject property located on Plantation key with a real estate number 0415 1840 d00 as legally described here in providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce okay and Item B sorry about that The Item B is an ordinance Amendment considering the request of hvs 82 Investments LLC to amend the zoning map for parcel 00415 84-0 it's a an ordinance considering the request of sh Mahoney on behalf of HBS 82 Investments LLC to amend the official zoning map from native residential NR to Highway commercial HC for the subject property located on Plantation key with real estate number 00415 8 4- 0000000000 as legally described here in providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce okay so um Jennifer are you going to present this for us I am all right thank you good afternoon LPA I'm here this evening with um before you this evening with the staff uh report and recommendation regarding uh HV s82 Investments LLC application for a map Amendment um for the uh future land use map Amendment from residential conservation to mixed use designation and the zoning map Amendment for Native residential district to Highway commercial district for the subject property located at 88755 Old Highway the property is comprised of 12,000 square feet um the property is currently developed with an existing commercial Greenhouse um the uh flum and Zoning change um the applicant has submitted a letter in of intent dehing both Amendment requests which is in your packet this evening this again the subject property is 12,000 square foot parcel implantation key the owner previously received approval from Monro County prior to Village incorporation to construct a commercial greenhouse on the property to support the exist the flower shop uh that the property owner man uh runs and owns The Village incorporation under Pond Village incorporation the property was Zone native residential a as and previously from the county it was zoned Suburban residential and prior to that it was zoned under the county bu-1 uh the property does contain some habitat and a preliminary review of the habitat by The Village's biologist determin that the remaining habitat could be considered high quality hammock however the limit of clearing has already been established and per the village code any additional clearing will not be allowed the property is not recognized as ha Habitat to any state or federal listed animal species and is not within the state or conservation Recreation lands boundary or critical habitat area pursuing to The Village's GIS data and Records the parcel is defined as some hammock along the perimeter with no habitat on the center of the parcel which is scarified and holds the existing Greenhouse the surround the surrounding future land use map designations the C subject property currently again has existing residential conservation future land use designation the surrounding properties to the South are designated residential conservation to the north the adjacent property is designated mixed use properties to the west across Overseas Highway are designated public semi-public services and mixed use and to the east across Old Road is residential low the character of the pro subject property is an existing Greenhouse surrounded by hammock and the surrounding are is mixed use with a collective of government of commercial uses institutional uses and single family residences give me one sec the subject property has a current existing native residential zoning District designation the adjacent properties to the South are designated either residential to the north the adjacent property is designated Highway commercial and the properties to the west across Overseas Highway are designated Public semiu Services and Highway commercial and to the east across the old road is residential estate the character of the subject property again is the existing Greenhouse the surrounding areas mixed is mixed use with the collective commercial uses institutional uses and single family residences um the flood zone is partially zoned ae1 um I'm not going to go through um the coal analysis it's just in your packet um I will just say that the proposed flam and Zoning Amendment would allow the applicant to continue the commercial use on the property as it exists today and the applicant's application that's their intent um the proposed um flum Amendment would alter the development potential of the subject property um the maximum residential development if approved uh the of the proposed fum Amendment would result in an increase of either one market rate residential dwelling unit or up to four deed restricted affordable dwelling units on the property but again the owner has an indicated desire to maintain the existing dwell existing property as is le as just once it legally established and staff has recommended the approval of both uh map amendments at this time um also um in the audience we have Daniel parach the staff biologist if the board has any questions regarding the hammock and the habitat um in the area on the property okay so we have two items in front of us uh one is a flume change and one is a zoning change and we can discuss them together um but when we get around to voting we have to vote on The Flume first and in the zoning just as a reminder to everybody who wants to open the conversation the applicant is here too if you'd like to hear oh okay does we can do that first okay um let's do we have any public comment on this item okay are you I assume you signed up you want to call yes we have ran bushin okay Lan thank you my name is Lan bushin and I my son live across the street and my family here and I've been there for 30 years and I I've seen different zonings come along but um didn't matter much cuz I just wanted to live there but this property um I just want to mention because I had a vegetation survey done and my property is very scarified because I have people that live behind me that have to cross my area and I had protected little tiny Critters in my on my um survey so I guess it's sometimes how the survey is done but um I just wanted to say that before I forgot it but I'm here to say that um I don't believe that to ask for a resoning I think the Mahoney property could be upgraded to a um another minor conditional use like she was originally granted in 1996 um that provided her for what the property limited her to then and I don't see why it should be changed now um it was bu zoning at one point which I guess that whole strip was business zoning and then it changed because within a seven 5 to sevene period whole bunch of houses came in and um became residential that's why they changed it to Suburban um residential so there are people positing that it needs to go back to what be was and I'm like stop this is like kindergarten to keep going back to an issue that's gone I mean if you remove all the residences then maybe you can start to argue that point again but that's gone so my point is something that she's been told no for for all this time why change now why not go back to what she um spoke to m Mahoney she said that she wants to use it for um someone that she knows as an architect for an off small office and that doesn't require rezoning another minor conditional use zoning that goes from low density what she has now to a high density and when she was given the conditional use in 1996 she was supposed to put the road on the Highway that would make me a lot happier I live right there and with Mike Murphy property wanting to do the same I'm looking at 300 ft of when I come out of my driveway going commercial why why are the residents not recognized to be able to reserve and preserve the zoning that they bought into and why do we have to keep asking these questions you know like um it's very upsetting as people from the lower mat is from trying to save these keys for everybody uh all this grabbing going on it's like I lost sleep last night over this you know a lot of my life is protecting my property where I live I don't get any peace I don't hardly get to enjoy my life anymore because of issues two doors down the other way for me is a weekly vacation rental I don't have any idea how that happened but it did and they have to cross a private easement that's my land to get to it it's a I have to look into that when this issue gets sced and find out why that's happening so as I said I just all I do is defend my property so thank you thank you this more but just so I don't I don't mean this the way it's going to come out but if you could hold your applause we can move the Medan along a little quicker please just a point of clarification um that there is no office or uh commercial use that's allowed as a minor conditional use in the native residential zoning District thank you who's the next public speaker me Kaden head and who's after van and Ty Harris all right and Kaden head again uh ladies and gentlemen to reiterate what I said before the problems that that happened here are are because we had with the First Council uh the council which was the LPA which was the land acquisition Authority and basically by and large they did whatever they wanted to and a lot of these people in I'm looking at the church of the C marada when I say this an a lot of hang on an need when you start the timer please thank you go ahead sorry extra time you got extra time but these people were deprived of due process they were not informed their zoning was going to change their flum was going to change they didn't have no understand the ramifications of what these people were doing and they would have a council meeting followed by an LPA meeting followed by a land acquisition meeting and it would be all thank you very much and uh nobody knew what was going on and that's why we're having a lot of these problems choke up now because uh uh Mr Mr Mahoney uh Sharon's father was a good friends with my mother who was the president of the Chamber of Commerce at the time and uh they were strictly conservation people I mean they wanted to keep the keys the way it was and this is in the 60s and now uh the zeros have started to add up and the Pirates have come out of the woodwork and and I think we should we should allow people that had uh undue zoning changes and flum changes without their knowledge uh they were deprived to due process of the law the the value of their property went down and nobody told them and now all of a sudden boom boom you know they have to fight like this lady here is is worried about um um what she um has to defend every time she gets up and looks out at the street that's not right that's not private you know uh quiet enjoyment of life that's we should we should uh uh always fall back to the the more uh Laz Fair liberal attitude of of being the sport fishing capital of the world we should we should uh not we we were U subjected at the first council with with a a a regime and a and a a campaign to conservation IE everything and stop uh except for the places that they wanted to build to stop uh people from from uh increasing the density about anything and that just does that doesn't hold water it's not fair it's it's unamerican so I would ask you to consider this uh when you you know talk to Sharon I'm sure she can work something out with the planning department I mean even though uh these PE poor people here that were here to speak to sojourn I mean that falls into the same category as as uh why we're having problems because the the the items on the agenda weren't advertised well there was a whole meeting cancelled of this committee because it wasn't improperly advertised so somebody ought to know the rules if they're going to be in the planning department thank [Applause] you Ty thank you Ty Harris 110 Plantation Shores Drive this gets back to what we've discussed it's the original sin of the village van started touching on it the village came in and rezoned huge swaths of property and when you rezone and you change the comprehensive plan designation on 10 acres or greater that was the Statute at the time you don't have to give people individual notice it's just advertised it was advertised in the keys weekly or the the whatever the Key West paper is so people didn't know and now we all have this situation to deal with we have upset Property Owners we have upset residents nobody's happy and nothing that you guys are going to do is going to make half the people happy and half the people upset you know Sharon's property was owned originally be we've already established that then the county didn't do her any favors and they down zoned it to Suburban residential but the building and the use on the property are commercial they've always been commercial so it's it's just right that she have her commercial zoning back she can't develop any more of the property and I think that's why you probably have the biologist here that can testify to that you don't have to take the former planning director's um word on that but she's also taxed commercially and she could tell you that but when you pull up her taxes she's being taxed commercial when she asked the about that with um with the property appraiser he goes no you're commercial you're going to get tax commercial so the village gave her a zoning that she can't use yet we're still reaping the tax benefits of her property again there's not going to be an easy solution to any of this not for the church not for sojourn not for Mahoney but what happened wasn't right and it needs to get fixed thank you thank you sir and who's next anybody else no one on Zoom more fun okay um so if I don't have any other public comment public comment on this is closed Sharon as um Miss mahom sorry as a u the applicant would you like to speak no thank all right uh to the board who you want to start sure I guess so why not why not um the property was zoned in 1986 nearly 40 years ago Suburban residential so I think it's disingenuous to suggest that this was caught up in the village uh comp plan amendments in in the 1999 and 2000 era when the village was incorporated it had already gone to Suburban residential for 14 years prior to that uh additionally to my understanding I wasn't here then so I'll defer to others there were advertised about 18 different workshops uh subgroups uh to talk about various areas with respect to what was going on as far as The Flume amendments and the comp plan I should say not amendments the original comp plan went and what the zoning would be um that was done in 2000 that's 24 years ago in 2011 there was an additional agreement entered into with respect to preserving the greenhouse which is a non-conforming use and that is legal and I I know to the gentleman's comment before we have accepted and actually have in our code legal non-conforming use policies which are for your information objective 1- 2.2 non-conforming uses and structures and it specifically says that Redevelopment shall be encouraged for commercial structures and uses designated mu and located outside the village activity centers but only to the extent that impacts generated by the new structure in use or equal to or less than that generated by the previous structure in use we don't have that here there is no way we can say that oh this structure in use is not going to have an increased density impact to the property if it zoned Highway commercial away from a greenhouse and all of the uses in Highway commercial as as much as I think M Mahoney is a wonderful neighbor both by my residence and by my work um we don't know where that property is going to go next and once you give an entitlement and you've heard me pound this over and over and over for two years now and I've been on the council once you upzone and once you give away a right and a conservation property that we have we will never ever get it back and we could not prevent then any of those Highway commercial uses where right now we have a legal non-conforming use that was exactly what was bargained for over the years of a greenhouse connected to a florist at a time when it was sub Suburban residential and and and that's just been the way it has been for for more than two decades I was frankly and and then I'll seed the floor I I was frankly a little surprised when I got to the end of the staff report that the recommend ation of the staff was favorable because setting aside a few of the very very important and pertinent policies that weren't addressed in the saff report um more than half the report approximately stated that the impact was not clear the impact could not be ascertained because we don't know what this property is going to be that's exactly the point when we do rezoning we have to look at the maximum density and intensity that that property is going to suffer when we do a staff report and a Rec recommendation and here we've accepted and I accept Miss Mahoney's word but we don't know where it's going after that we don't know where this property is going after that and we cannot do Zoning for people we have to look at the property that is owned and that's been a continuing theme too in fact I heard same thing you're in a village Activity Center your church is so it's a whole different ball game but I heard at the last meeting oh well we're going to do this because uh Reverend Hammond has been such a great Steward of the community I don't have a problem with that but it's not about people just like the Mahon have been great stewards of this community it's not about people it's about the property and here we have all of the infrastructure requirements saying they're not clear then conversely and conflictingly the other half of the report inappropriately merely accepted that the applicant at this time does not anticipate a use change that's what I just went over we have to assume a maximum intensity and density but if no change in use was anticipated why the comp plan code change we already have the regulations enforced through the non-conforming use objectives and policies in our code to allow this non-conforming use this is an Old Highway address it is not an overseas address um and that brings me to the fact that the Old Highway that is specifically supposed to be preserved for pres for pedestrians cyclists conservation Etc wasn't even referenced in the report there is no way it simply says oh all these criteria are meet met but it skipped that one and I think that's a that's a big one um much of the application was premised on the fact that there's already a commercial use that's compatible with Highway commercial that's because it's a non-conforming use the problem is the rest of the highway commercial designations and mixed use are not compatible with the area um we have a large hammock that had been denied when Michael Murphy asked for the change from his conservation in large part because it was next door to another conservation parcel we keep kicking off the conservation Parcels we're just going to run the gamut of domino and that's what it is a gentleman out here said Death By A Thousand Cuts and that's what it is once that property goes the next one in line will fall and the next one in line will fall um finally and then I really will um um move on is another policy that's not referenced that's directly on point uh again is 1- 2.4.3 which says you cannot do this if it's going to impact an up impact the maximum and this application frankly just assumes there's not going to be a change so that analysis wasn't done so there's not a basis to change it because that analysis needs to be done and it's not part of the analysis was done which is to say yeah we now could have up to four homes or one resident resents with a commercial building of all of these uses for Highway commercial I just don't see how this encourages the comp plan to go from residential conservation skip over everything else to get to mixed use and Highway commercial it's it's just Death By A Thousand Cuts oh and with respect to the taxing ISS please hold please hold your applause please with respect to the taxing issue I did see that and I thought oh that's a little odd so I went to the proper prop appraisers website and the commercial Highway building next door to it um is number of units for land use 1700 is 12,000 for the property at issue here is land use um code 3,000 for 5,000 square feet but environmentally sensitive for 7,000 square ft so it is taken into account what the non-conforming use issue is at least from what I can tell from the Property Appraiser's website okay anybody else here on got some thoughts sure I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with Mr ranell on a couple of points first one I'm going to point out is that when the village Incorporated and the council that van Mr Cadenhead was referencing happened to consist of Cheryl Bower and Ron Levy who rode up and down through town pointing out areas that they didn't already have housing on and they would designate large swaps of anything especially if it was conservation that included all of what happened in lower mat that included large sections of Plantation key big sections here it's not conforming because the area they created with your residential medium over there was a quarter acre lots the bigger problem I have is that your building which is next door to miss Mahoney's lot was had to when M keep in mind I did my first internship over there in law school when it was still the public defender office was down zoned or rezoned in ' 82 but Mr Mikel when he decided to rebuild a concrete building because the building that was wouldn't could no longer change uh obtain fire insurance we had no problem letting that go back to the commercial footage that you now have directly next door yes it is convenient that I give Mr Mikel credit they maintain the trees we've all maintained the the trees on the property but it is next door to your legal center so I and she's putting a legal law back office back there or something else that would be a quiet office I don't have a problem with but more importantly the I can't tell you how much when I heard Cheryl Bower brag about riding up and down and resoning large swasa land when the village was incorporated this was about 2002 when I was listening to this conversation it was just amazing she was a forign plan one of the planning directors for the county who was retained by The Village after we incorporated um I think Mr hamon is familiar with some of these things as they occurred as far as the large zoning we had to find a number of them I did used to live in Port Antiga I'm very familiar with the soj property I can tell you that the fishing Village that's out there when that changed to conservation everybody was stunned because the only thing out there at that time were Australian pines there weren't even any mangroves out there but there was a whole bunch of traps out there and they've always been traps out there but that's not for right now I'm just telling you how these designations came to be there in some of the residential areas there were some very odd designations but I have absolutely no problem taking somebody that the county recognized had vested rights from a decision they had and I believe this is 98 96 to let her have something that's useful because right now it's way it's going she can't even put a roof on a greenhouse so that she can lease it and get utilize it to at least have some income yes it's been a greenhouse for some years but the bottom line is is this was what she was she bought this is what she was told and there was a very bad job of anybody being notified that property been changed and it was a whole sale across the way I think what's also problematic yes she's paid commercial taxes on it um it's you you can't worry about what somebody next to you is going to build if as long as they build within the code she's got minor conditional use restrictions on it she has all of that but we have to let people utilize the property that they bought unless they had a chance I have Absolut no problem with her changing what we're looking at right here the rest of the middle of Plantation key with the exception Mr Murphy's two lots um are mixed residential in fact I would call it mixed use if you go up and down through there where it is currently the reef Foundation was a private home I remember somebody living in but when I moved down here in 79 I could see the old road when I rode down the highway there weren't those kinds of hammocks there you could see all the way through to the old road then the Australian pines took over and finally the pigeon plums the buttonwoods and the other things came back that should have been there but you've got to remember we have to let the rights of the individual that owns the property go for it you don't want to get yourself involved in another lawsuit that's the bottom line but I I don't have any problem with this particular L going back to its status as it existed before the village took a wholesale approach to designating areas that weren't what they were zoned as and that was Suburban residential and and respectfully just to to make it clear um I do own the building next door through a company I bought it in 2020 the rezoning of that building in 2006 I would have opposed as well but it was done in 2006 and it became established there and again and that's the domino effect that I'm concerned about now and as she does have Ed rights and that's what she's she's using right now and I think she has vested and the agreement was for a greenhouse and that's that that's what was done but I don't think that we can have a threat of a lawsuit dictate what the city does either because that's all we hear constantly and if we went back to the way it was before the village Incorporated and and Miss Bowers I think you said her name was went up and down the road it's Suburban residential it still doesn't comply that's why we have legal non-conforming use standards so I'd like to interject at this point that um I was able to find and have forwarded to the rest of LPA a uh Declaration of restrictive covidence and also the some of the original plans from 1999 for the property that shows where the um excuse me the conservation the restrictive covenant applies um so that's that's where that you referred to 7,000 plus square footage um that's where that comes from is there's like 5,000 something in cleared area um I would like uh if I can take the leeway of asking Daniel to uh address what else could be cleared what could happen um knowing that it's a 12,000 ft lot and um there's a chunk already cleared and has been for many many years uh so good evening board um the very short answer is that uh no more clearing would be allowed on the property um the there was a habitat analysis done before the property was developed in the 9s and our code says that once you have a habitat analysis and then commence with development it's kind of locked into that um habitat type in perpetuity in the clearing ratio and um without seeing a recent survey I I you know I don't know by the square foot but uh measuring on Aerials uh the clearing ratio has been met so no additional clearing could be done okay so no more clearing Could Happen than what is already happened and with the square footage that's there um can you maybe that has to fall back to Jennifer can can some of the um restrictions on how much parking and it couldn't that space could not obtain much more than the greenhouse with a roof on it the area that's currently cleared could be redeveloped um but the open space ratio would still apply yes but what I'm saying is that you can't put a um even though the highway commercial says that you could have a restaurant and all sorts of stuff there's not enough space cleared already and they can't clear anymore that's what I'm trying to get at is 90% of the stuff that's in Highway commercial you can't do because it's already cleared and and the limits of the clearing is that kind of a true statement it depends what's proposed to be developed there they're stuck with what they have in terms of clearing okay can I ask a question if you unify properties for example if you take three properties and put them together and then they're all highway commercial does that impact what could or could not be cleared on formally a single parcel does that make sense it would you'd look at it as one parcel um can you address the habitat uh connect ity that somebody spoke about the hardwood hammock and the habitat that's in the area and I know we have have discussions with past applicants about connectivity right the uh a couple years ago the two lots to the South was a was a big deal and uh that habitat was determined to be highquality hammock um because in our code The Old Road does not constitute a boundary when you're looking at hammock in an area so you lump all the hammock around a property it doesn't stop at the property boundaries it's looking kind of at the whole area um and then there is a large area hammock across Old Highway on the ocean side um from these median Lots uh between US1 and Old Highway so as part of the habitat analysis scoring you're looking at what is the property connected to in terms of other hammock areas and that is a substantial portion of how the scoring uh could be increased and so um those median Lots if they are adjacent to larger hammocks um they could have a higher score and a higher habitat rating so how does that relate to miss Mahoney's property she's got two sections of uh conservation areas um that's in that same general area wouldn't that somewhat apply that there is no other way of clearing more because of since her property was scored and developed um and and the vment that occurred was to the maximum square footage allowed then that by itself uh prohibits any additional clearing um barring any uh property combinations or lot line adjustments okay so what you're saying Daniel is that even if she even if a future buyer were to purchase the lot to the South which is um Native residential they could not increase the the um clearing not on the lot that's that's being discussed tonight no okay but that that that that brings me back to frankly what is is is my biggest concern with respect to this particular application which is the domino effect of the properties uh to the South if those properties are the south then because this one's now going to be Highway commercial those two are going to be Highway commercial if that was unified it would be one lot and that hammock for those other two properties would also I mean depends it would depend upon the configuration of the building which Lots got trees taken down or hammock taken down but hammock is going hypothetically that could occur and that's why now when you develop a hammock lot the area that's required to be an open space goes under a conservation easement so even though this one has restricted covenants on the deed it doesn't have a conservation easement on the property so in this rare case then if the three properties in the medium were combined then you can combine the footprint to your total clearing because there's no conservation easement on the property before you but doesn't the restrictive covenants protect the area still or is it because it says 40% or whatever I don't forget what it says I'd have to look at the Restriction again I don't know if there's meats and Bounds in that I know there wasn't a an exhibit that showed which areas were no that's that's actually the reason I ended up pulling the uh original site plan uh to try to figure out what was protected okay just don't go anywhere people might want to talk who else you got something Tony you got something mine's a little more lengthy so let's do it we pass and I'll come back okay all right Jimmy somebody um no I just see it's you know the pre-existing non-conforming use I mean I think we keep bringing up these two other properties but this is in my eyes a little different I mean this has a commercial building on it to my understanding already a greenhouse on it but it is it that is a commercial building yeah my my issue staff report is the intensity and density of a greenhouse is very different than an office even assuming an office building as opposed to a brew pub or something like that is very different it so it's I'm reading that it's native residential it has a commercial building Highway commercial I just I think it it needs to fit its appropriate zoning I do understand you know we have these legal non-conforming uses pre-existing but uh I think you know cleaning up some of those aren't the worst moving forward I I don't really have any else to say then other things that have currently been said I kind of believe along the same lines as um as Cheryl does this was something happened historically and she does have a commercial building in place currently and she's she's regulated as to what more she can clear that leaves you all right so this this Loops all of this together lumps it all together together for from L madaki to the North End of alamada I moved here in 1960 um so I've been here longer than I think anybody that was sitting out there except for Miss Mahoney and uh maybe van and maybe van maybe van um I think we have an issue that we have to address and that is for those pieces of property that have been zoned like we've talked about with the church property with her property and we'd had absolutely no knowledge of it so many people come forward since we had this issue and say yeah that happened to my property as well I had no idea and and the truth is because it might be published in the back of the keyo which by the way for those of you wondering what that is that was the name of the newspaper back then uh And the reporter and you didn't you didn't read those no one read those especially if you didn't have anything that was you don't read them today exactly right they're published today and we don't read them today either actually you know what I've started looking through them out of self-defense are you looking for the obituaries those I read too yeah yeah I read those like as Bill Cosby said outlive that one beat that [Laughter] one no so um I think we have an issue that we have to address not LPA um by the way folks for scolding the LPA as a volunteer group for not defending the environment is is out of line I mean we are first of all you're brought up issues that are code enforcement issues not LPA issues um I taught marine biology and biology for over 50 years years so I'm at my core concerned about the environment of the Florida Keys note with hands or buts about it protecting the reefs protecting the mangrove communities protecting the grass Flaps in levels that the general Community can't even understand for the most part because it involves a degree in science we are definitely in trouble there's no no doubt our job is to here what's before us to enforce those rules and then make recommendations to the council we're not setting policy so what what van said is absolutely true for there not to be an LPA separate from the council would would be a huge mistake I believe so I think we need the two because we act as checks and balances that would be a little bit like the the the cabinet the president the cabinet the Senate and the the house all merging together as one that would be disastrous for our nation it would be so enough said about that so I would like to see us correct all of those zoning issues this is not up zoning this is corrective zoning and I believe there are many places upzoning is not a word not a not anywhere do we find up zoning that I understand we need to correct some of the zoning issues that took place in the early Council especially when it devalued properties for the property owners and that's just not correct not right so that's my two cents I'll add in a little bit more um I've been working very hard at trying to protect habit at protect what we have left uh to the point that I've made individuals not very happy with me by suggesting that there should be sub zonings and and other areas um in this particular case because there's already a declaration out there because there's um prior approval sort of through the county um even though they they allowed commercial in um the residential zoning they they allowed it um that I want to protect what we've got here too I've only been here 30 years and but at the same time time we have to hit this balance between the environment and business um we all have to make a living in some fashion and if you really you know that seventh seven down the line we all are touched by business in some degree it doesn't mean that we have to let it out of control we need to control it but we need to review it and allow it to happen where it needs to happen and not allow it to happen where it doesn't need to happen that being said I think this is one of those instances that and I don't know how that came about I I remember the meetings I do remember many of the meetings that they had on on areas and and and how they they did um I don't personally remember the The Group Advertising of properties um saying that they're going to do this District or that area or whatever I don't remember that but I do remember that there was meetings I also know that because I was involved with other organizations at the time is probably the only reason I knew that my property was that I should pay attention to my property I didn't see it in a paper I the only way I knew was the fact that I was involved in other stuff um and I do agree that there's zoning changes that were made that need to be corrected um we're starting to see a lot of them come forward this is one of them um actually the sojun property is probably another one uh but I don't want to get off topic so that being said um I believe that this board is trying to protect what we have here um are we going to stop everything no first of all we're an Advisory Board we only get to advise the council but it's a good sounding board and I think we're well advising with what we do and how we do it and um uh when we present it to council we try to present everybody's Viewpoint and and what we decide I I hope I get that across when I present to council that being said any more conversation I oh okay uh as I listen to this it it's I've only been here a couple meetings it seems to be a recurring theme that uh um the heart over the zoning you know what the heart feels that is appropriate to rule on versus the strict adherence to the zoning regulations the rules and regulations and we the argument happens every make sure you speak into your mic please okay just pull it closer to okay it seems to me that this issue comes up almost on every every time we address a property that somebody wants to change and it becomes an issue between the heart we want to you know make this person whole or do what's right for them and what what is written in the in the the the rules and regulations here and I don't I I I have yet to see any clear delineation what what what is more important you know you know I think we're since we're a Planning Commission we we need to you know put more weight on what what the zoning what what the what the the regulations are and stick to that but I wish there was some clarity of where this line is at because it with every applicant every request for a change it changes and there's you you can't I don't know if we can fight this fight every single time I wish there was uh some some mechanism or some guiding guidelines that that would would would simplify this and say yes this falls into this category and maybe Susan I I I think you've got a good take on it I wonder what if you might comment on what I'm saying here well I think it goes back to every seven years the village of alam marado was to do a comprehensive comp plan change and that just wasn't done since incorporation in 2000 um instead it has been amended ad hoc without somebody coming back to take a look um at what was done you know probably for efficiencies purposes in 2000 that was supposed to be looked at again in 2007 2014 2021 we're not there we're still using studies back from 2010 and population projections from 2010 were 14 years past that so I think it's part of the comprehensive strategic plan that I know the previous planning director was working on along with outside outside Consultants of course to get that done and and I believe that may be because it has been 24 years so if it wasn't known in 2000 I get it but we know for this particular property it was known um you know it would have been noticed for the building I now own um or through an entity I should say that um and then in 2011 when the acknowledgement was done but I think what got missed was the comprehensive overview That was supposed to by state law occur every seven years and instead we were putting Band-Aids on problems and now that overview I think is started and and continuing but you know it's it's sort of a let me get in there before that strategic growth plan is made and a lot of I've said it at prior meetings too I am not comfortable doing the Band-Aid Solutions everybody on this panel can probably tell that as as hard as some of these things are to include this particular issue with this particular property um I don't like the Band-Aid solution we need to have a comprehensive overall growth change to prevent the death by several Cuts but in absence of that I don't have a good answer other than to say I go back and I review the comp plan and you can figure out a way to deny or recommend approval for just about anything with what's in there well thank you for all the help first we have to develop political backbone and will do Sharon we do we do and that's that's what it's hard sometimes it's you know I mean it's it's hard to to take a position that may not be popular but that's right and that's what I think we're here to do or try to do and even if we disagree along those lines I also think that the oh he left oh I was going to say that that um it is difficult to have tight rules every property is just a hair different um and you'll never find a whole bunch that's all alike you you you do have to review them separately I was speaking uh of other things is that if you review one property that's in the same area same neighborhood we'll say it and you review AB C and D then property two you should review AB C and D you may come to 100% different conclusions as long as you reviewed the same things you can come to New conclusions because of the circumstances on the properties part of it is the unique nature of the keys as opposed to having a large swwa of land in and I grew up in Wyoming in Wyoming you can say okay those 10 acres are going to be a residential subdivision nothing's been built and it's planned here we're on a very narrow Island which brings very unique concerns making every go back and every single piece that is in conservation or hasn't been developed that's outside you know our code does have Village activity centers and it has them for a reason that's where 24 years ago so everybody who's come since then knew 20 24 years ago that's where the building and the commercial areas were're really supposed to be focused with a nice residential Corridor connecting the two from one end to the other and I think that's been eroded it's been eroded to the detriment um of I think the residents and that's not to say that they weren't hard decisions or maybe that that that God is here but we are where we are now so in 2006 an analysis may have been different than 2024 just because of that but here every parcel contributes to the whole in such a unique and extreme way that it it makes it makes that's where it makes me fall back on the last time we actually looked at this as a whole whether right or wrong the last time we looked at this as a whole and I'm anxiously awaiting and I've said it time and time again to look at the hole again and it just doesn't get done and it and it worries me that it doesn't get done because of the lack of political backbone and because others you know may have a different agenda than wanting to have that done I have no basis to say that that's just a concern because I've been asking for years you look like you have something to add sorry I just wanted to add one additional piece of information that I forgot to mention earlier under the native residential zoning the minimum lot area development is one acre this property doesn't only has 12,000 Square fet so if you were to maintain the native residential she wouldn't even be able to develop what is allowed in that zoning District thank you little tidbit of information that's important okay uh any other comments from the board I need a motion call a question I need a motion to approve is presented okay where Z we need the first motion let me go back which one was first Flume The Flume we have to do The Flume first moved are we amending no or are we cre okay we amending the future land use M okay move to amend the future land use map is presented in the today's package on the uh property belonging to Shar HSV whatever oh you make me read it HPS A2 sorry I got some of the letters right he I have a motion I need a second I need a second I I'll second I have a first and a second and I need a roll call sh culon yes Lori Lon yes Patrick FY no tmy [Music] h SE raidel no jeans run yes and ch de Gillis yes motion passes 5 to2 all right next I need a motion on the zoning [Music] change it's from native to Highway commercial a move to amend the Zone the zoning map from native residential to Highway commercial on the properties presented as owned by Sharon uh H vs 82 Investments LL SU LFC um as presented in the package before today's meeting okay I have a motion I need a second a second have a first and a second I need a roll call that was Lori sh C yes we V on yes Patrick Foley no Tony h yes sus ra no James Ry yes and CH Giller yes motion passes 5 to two Okay thank you the next item the was uh the next two tabs were the solden tab um so we're skipping that we've tabled that until April uh so the next set of two tabs is the island Community Church tabs um so we have uh e it's an ordinance of Isam marada Village of islands Florida considering the request of Tai Harris PA agent for Island Community Church Inc to amend The Village's future land use map from public semiu services PS to mixed use mu for the subject property located on upper matac Combi key with real estate number 00 42900 d 0000000000 as legally described here in providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce then f is an ordinance of aam marada Village of islands Florida considering the request of Tai haris paa agent for Island Community Church Inc to amend the official zoning map from public SL semiu services to Highway commercial HC for the subject property located on upper matak comi key with real estate number 0042 90- 0000000000 as legally described here in providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce uh does staff want to make a general comment about the remainder of the items on the tab before we go any further yes the remainder of your items on your tab are here is a procedural matter um as has been alluded to previously this evening um there was some posting requirements that were not met for your January 8th meeting so um we even though you had already reviewed and voted on all of these items we um decided it was in the best interest to redo these um items in this fashion um I do not intend to do an additional presentation um I I would just like to enter my previous presentation from January 8th on all these items into the record um obviously obviously we'll have public comment and if the board has additional questions but I would IM matter imagine this is just procedural at this point I would I I would actually just want to clarify one thing thank you by the way for just incorporating your presentation we did have heard that before but I do I was concerned when I saw on the agenda that the the fact that notice was procedural we just saw a lot of people here tonight that only they didn't come to January and I bet they would have been here had it been noticed on the property as per procedure so I I value public comment I know that there's recently in the village been a lot of concern that that's not the case with I think we always have but with the Village Council trying to to take various steps to eliminate public comment so I I do take issue with the word procedural I know you did not mean it in that sense but we heard a lot of new information tonight because of the notice requirements so I do agree that it was not only legally required to do that by procedure but the right thing to do um nonetheless thank you for your efficiencies on the last ones and I I would just like to also say the um error in the posting was not intentional nor you know anybody's particular fault it was just an oversight in the the reading of the code and the requirements the code can be very complicated so okay uh saying that moving on um would you like to make a presentation sir I'm not going to make a presentation I'm going to stand on the presentation we made in January however I would like to reserve time for rebuttal if I'm needed if you're needed thank you we'd love you to stay okay um pleasure of the board public comment first we have public comment we do okay we have Ty hereis we've heard from TY Ken head and and who's next Trevor man Trevor okay to further reiterate I'm van kenid uh what I said before um this was done uh without proper notification of the owner of the property I saw in the 50s many movies there at that c marada and uh Wayne Bean was the projectionist and he'd come through and settle all us kids down and and it was definitely a commercial site at that time and it was this the Hub of the community I mean it was a movie theater and we had nothing else to do and the kids we thought it was great and then the village of uh the village came in and uh decided that they would change the zoning on it and I don't think the people that uh owned the property at the time mainly the church had uh proper information or or uh conception of what was being done to them at the time and it's laid uh this way all the way through the the whole iteration of the church uh it was a a Public Service uh zoning that was put on it but uh without having knowledge that that was being done and and the deprivation of the rights that occurred when that happened uh unbeknownst to the church um I think it's uh proper and should be uh remedied uh by allowing this to revert back to a highway commercial uh because that was it's much easier obviously I believe uh to have a pool of buyers for a highway commercial property than it would be to have a a smaller pool of buyers for a public service which you know it could be a library or it could be some other motor pool for the village or a pumping station or any number of other things public service but uh I think for the good of the the church and the school who have been nothing but uh Sterling stewards of that property and and the property directly north of it for many years I think you should consider recommending to the council that uh you allow them to revert back to the uh uh Highway commercial that would be uh more advantageous to the sale of that property they're trying to sell a property and uh if if they can sell it for more than public service is going to buy them that's a very small pool of buyers whereas if it's Highway commercial um it can be a lot of but now you can have stipulations in there that it can't turn into a to a a another deons or a 711 or something like that there could be you can you could write things into it memorandums of understanding about uh what what is able to go on that property but by the same token um the church was deprived of due process I think in my opinion which they they did not fully comprehend what was being done to them at the time and we should allow that to revert back to um a more commercially advantageous position for the church and the school thank you very much thank you sir and uh Trevor I believe you're next if you want to speak I'll defer to Mr Harris repres all right do I have anybody on Zoom nobody on Zoom no all right to the board um you have an announcement yes I I will recuse myself obviously for this and uh just a reminder that two things one we have no one that came forward objecting to this this change and that we voted unanimously last time to make the change um one additional note that I I since I have the microphone right now I will not be able to be at the um April 8th meeting so if we can change that anyway I think just out of respect and to to be here for the the decision on Captain Co should we should try to make that happen and I can't we'll look at it it's it's pretty hard to change the dates I know these days I know I just it's pretty tight I know we we'll look at it and we'll we'll send out a notice if if for some reason but um okay you want to yeah you like to start I well I might as well Village Activity Center what is the phrase you had me at Village Activity Center um again I emphasize in in my own view that it's as much as I agree that they have been great stewards of the property with van it's not about the person it's about the property but this property is within the village Activity Center which is what the comp plan says we should do with it so um that's my only comment any other comments it was a movie theater it was a great movie theater it was a great place to survive hurricane Donna when the beans spent the whole storm in there and it the only question I have is because I know Tony would know the answer is where was the parking when it was the theater because the pi station was next door it was in the back in the back parking lot back there and uh that shows how many people uh came to the movies I think I okay that's kind of what I thought I I changed the Marquee on a regular B that was my job as a teenager was to climb up the ladder change the Marquee um and you may remember last time in the meeting the the last movie to be shown at Island community at at C theater was The Godfather and when we when we gave them the money and signed the paperwork I climbed up in the Marquee and changed a sign to say God the father and that was and that was the way that happened and so and I found a I actually found a photograph of that Marquee when it had been changed so that's that's funny stuff I think that needs to go over to the museum yeah should that's a good idea that's a good idea anybody else on the board have a comment if not I need a motion motion to approve again is presented on what are we doing first if you the flum the flum okay motion to approve is presented on the flum on the purposes of the Alam Community Church uh the church the Community Church Island Community Church sorry all right I have a first I need a second second okay okay cson yes James Ry yes Patrick fby yes T me you much i' like to say yes I recused myself so suan ranella yes Lori lant yes and Deb Gil yes okay now I need a motion on the zoning change it would go to Highway commercial so moved on item on the uh ordinance Amendment asking for the for the island Community Church to amend official zoning back from public semi-public to Highway commercial thank you second I have a first and a second Cheryl cson yes James Ryan Yes Patrick Foley yes Mella yes Bo V yes and Deb Gill yes all right so we're on to item G and ordinance of Isam marada Village wait wait wait wait apologize sorry I ran off motion pass 6 to Zer and before you move on the the next four items are all related if I understand the agenda right so as we did at the last meeting I would like to um discuss them all together so we need all four titles readed please yes all righty so we're on to item G so it's an ordinance of Isam marada Village of islands Florida considering the request of windley Cove LLC to amend The Village's future land use map from residential medium RM to mixed use mu for the subject property located on windley key with real estate number 04535 - 0000000000 as legally described here in and to allow the parcel to be included in policy 1-21 1.3 windley mix use Area 1 providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce next item an ordinance of is marada Village of islands Florida considering the request of windley Cove LLC to amend the official zoning map from residential single family R1 to Highway commercial HC for the subject property located on wi lii with real estate number 0045 35- 0000000000 as legally described here in providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce I an ordinance of Isam marada Village of islands Florida considering the request of windley Isles LLC to amend The Village's future land use map from residential medium RM to mixed use mu for the subject property located on windley key with real estate number 0045 36- 00000000 as legally described herein and to allow the parcel to be included in policy 1- 2.1 1.3 windley key mix use area one providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing for an effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce and lastly J an ordinance of alam marada Village of islands Florida considering the request of windley is LLC to amend the official zoning map from residential single family R1 to Highway commercial HC for the subject property located on windley key with real estate number 00 45360 0000000000 as legally described herein providing for the transmittal of this ordinance to the State Department of Commerce and providing fun effective date upon the approval of this ordinance by the State Department of Commerce again and I would just ask that my presentation from the January 8th meeting be enter them the record for all four of these items um but I would also like to remind the uh LPA that um there was a an item where um she had requested for the um Wiley key mix juice Area 1 but that it was a staff's opinion that it should be Wiley key mix juice area 2 and that was the recommendation and that ultimately Was the vote of the LPA so I just wanted to remind you of that thank you uh do I have any public comment why why don't you let van go I didn't know howly work joelyn I was just going to say as Ty did before if there's public comment I just like to reserve the right to come up and of course yes right van Caden head and at the time the building permits were issued for those two houses I was sitting on the LPA with Ty Harris as the planning director and Mark Greg was there of course and uh I did not agree with the way that the building permits were permitted because it was uh permitted for affordable housing and it was permitted for affordable housing because uh it fronted on the highway except it did not front on the highway it fronted on the old road so that was it should never have been uh authorized for affordable housing let alone what it is now so I mean I I said that at the time but you know that everybody on the the count on the committee recommended uh that they give it to him for affordable housing so I went along with the group and I really wish I'd have been a little stauncher in my resistance because here we are uh all this time later and uh Mr Greg's uh building permits have blossomed into uh vacation rentals now vacation rentals in that area I've I read in the agenda uh that uh they weren't in a a residential area well half of it is in a residential area the half that's on uh Hog Heaven is not but there's a lot of of people that live right down that road the old road right there directly south of of the subject properties that are not too pleased with the idea of having two vacation rentals in their neighborhood with the increased traffic with the increased uh uh uh density that they would bring so I would I would urge you not to uh allow this uh uh change to happen and I would hope that you would restrict it to being what it was originally set as how the how they you know this is a house built on Sand this is this is a disingenuous uh uh operation that happened there to get those building permits and now that the build and and don't get me wrong they're beautiful buildings there are beautiful houses there you know it's it's the I'm not questioning the construction but I'm questioning the use that you're opening them up to as vacation rentals um I don't think the people in the neighborhood like that too much and I don't think that it would it would definitely uh uh located right next to a bar and you could have two vacation rentals full of uh college students or conventioneers or whatever you want to have it would definitely create a traffic clot and I don't think it would be conducive to the quiet life of the neighborhood so I would urge you to allow I would urge you to allow uh uh them to be um utilized as as affordable houses as they were supposed to be which was how they got in and not to reward uh disingenuous misrepresentation to turn them into vacation rentals thank you very much just as a point of clarification yes please the um um the houses were never granted affordable permits one was a granted a market rate be pass dwelling unit allocation and the other one had a dwelling unit allocation on it um that was market rate there were never affordable housing dwelling unit allocations awarded to those houses thank you any other public comment you have anybody on Zoom no um would you like to say anything or not I just want to say just address just thank you I apologize 127 Coke in a row um just to keep referencing neighborhood not really a neighborhood you have six full residential homes on all of windley key um and and also to something wasn't even touched on last meeting these are Overseas Highway address these are not old Road address um I know that does make a difference when you guys talk about protecting the old road properties um that's all thank you thank you okay um so just as a a reminder um uh of what Jennifer just said uh last time it was presented as a uh special area number one and it's it should have been special area number two and I understand going to council it will be two correct right yes that it was kind of a scribblers error we'll call it um and we had asked what the difference was and one's more commercial and one's more residential and it all it all worked it should have been too um is there any comments from the board before we ask for motions I the last time we discussed this in in January I I asked the applicant um when when when when did she decide that it was no longer a residential home and she wanted to make it turn into a uh vacation rental um she told me it was a gradual realization I I I don't I don't deny that that might be your thought process but I I went over to after I made the vote and I voted in in favor last time I went just took a look at those places they both remind me not of a single family residential homes but rather boutique hotels uh you could park 10 15 cars on each of those pieces of property um it seems to me that the plan all along well I I I I don't want to say that it it seems to me that these were not single family residential homes as was originally presented I I don't mean to impute any M but you know visually and I've lived in single family homes even big houses all my life and so it just seems to me that uh these are designed to be vacation rentals weekly vacation rentals and not something more on the lines by actual family homes okay yes Madam um just picking up where that is and an emphasis on the address it's my understanding that the address is changed in order to potentially be able to get I understand that these homes were not built according to Affordable permit housing but the addresses of these properties I believe were historically actually changed from Old Highway to overseas many many years ago to be able to get a different designation so I I I I disagree that it should impact our analysis that the US Post Office address is overseas as opposed to the Old Highway especially given the progression uh and Analysis that these properties have had and then finally I just wanted to indicate it is an it is an up Zone an up zone is an urban planning term and it is defined used to describe changes to a zoning code made to increase the amount of development allowed in the future so here we do have two single family homes which is what they were permitted for and built for they're they're very large homes they are um I'm I'm sure would would do well in a vacation rental market but it is not and I said this last time and I'll reiterate it again it's not our job to increase um the profitability of a particular project over and and change the zoning to ensure that could happen okay um anybody else Tony Lori Jimmy I want to point out that the North End of windley key where one of my best friends just passed away who was one of the last residents there on the upper end of the key there's one other property left excuse me two other properties left that have uh until you get down to the trailer park that was converted to condominium that are not vacation R and the two single one of the single family residences is partially used as vacations home for them uh rentals the you go through the small condomini that was converted then you have everything else as a motel until you get down around the curve past the Bates Motel and then you get to a couple of the Condominiums so in the North End I can't imagine wanting to stay there but it's not going to be of much use to anybody if we don't let if we don't figure out how to modify the vacation rental ordinance or Grant a restriction put this on here with a restriction that it can't transfer or something of that nature I don't have a problem with it being can't imagine spending the night in front of hog heaven I'm trying not to Envision that um cuz my head hurts but the it's there's just really not anybody left that's residential like I said there's two homes left that are private homes and only one has a full-time resident and she's not here most of the time I personally think that the the fact that we're using the uh special three three special zoning area I know that yeah technically it's an up zoning because of the terminology but the of zoning is controlled by the special area so it's the only advantage that she gets is the vacation rental Advantage um she can't build anything else she can't take advantage of any of the other um items that would be available in that if somebody tore the house down they can't treat it like um the highway commercial District would be because we've used the special district on it so um what else anything else before we've oh to address Patrick's comment about the space for I unfortunately about what address Patrick's statement about all the vehicles here living on a street where two houses are vacation ryal these are pretty good size houses and Venetian Shores Cher oh sorry um you better have a lot of parking because they all show up with all their boats which it might only be three cars but they seem to drag three or four trailers behind them with boats and Jet Skis so you need all that parking you're right about that and and automatically point is that these seem to have been built with this plan in mind and coming in after the fact instead of before the fact you know is is a concern that that that I always have um um re refresh my memory sorry refresh my memory they're three bedroom four bedroom I'm sorry four bedroom three bath they're four bedrooms 2800 if if I was building a four bedroom home I would provide lots of parking because I know that I would have lots of family that has decided to come visit and they would bring their jet ski and their paddle boards and their toe all that stuff behind them that has nothing to do with vacation renal if you're building a big house like that even if I don't allow family if I've got a big house like that is are I'm going to have a house full of kids every kid has to have a car these days I have to play Park those cars somewhere well I I just having a family and having a home I I disagree because the bedrooms are filled with the children that you have period um I don't believe I've ever had a guest bring a jet ski or a boat to my house but we can I that I digress but I disagree I think vacation rentals inherently bring a lot more density and intensity and numbers of people than a single family residence does on a day in day out basis for our infrastructure I mentioned that last time I won't belabor it again concern I probably would not disagree with you that vacation rental is do bring more density but at the same time I not sure I agree with the fact that she planned it that way because as I said if I was building a big house I'd make sure that I had enough parking for whatever I wanted to do even if it was my own jet ski and my own boat and my own car and I'm a single person and I have two cars you know so we we already have a problem on windley key with with parking of boat trailers yeah we really do they're parked on village Village property and people are storing their boats and storing their trailers there and for free they're not paying to to store them there but yet they are then it's not just it's not just the vacation Runners either that's that's doing that oh you mean that windley key spot is not just a free parking no I'm kidding which is better than down the street where they've got every boat they own sitting out in the medium that's what I'm saying to you that's a problem and they're and they're storing that for free they're able to you know to bark their boat and their trailer for free at least she's trying to put them on the property and you're 18 if that's what they bring I'm making assumptions here sorry so no it's okay I'm dealing with that problem already not that's okay this was approved last time yes correctly was that's what I thought I agree so we had plenty of discussion last time all right so may I have a motion unless somebody wants to have more conversation I don't want to cut people off uh I need a motion for the the first one which is the windley Cove future land use map changing it from mixed juice to I me changing it to mixed juice but um special area number two so moved you're welcome oh second I got a first and a second sh C yes toy hman yes Patrick fby no this ra no James Ry yes Lori Von yes and de Gillis yes motion passes five to two all right and now I need a motion for the windley Cove uh zoning map change from um uh residential residentials are are one to Highway commercial thank you whoever was doing that comment we already had that so moved there's four different we had public comment we had public comment that's right this is the zoning to the one property that has already been addressed that the two were combine we didn't no we combined all four we did so you made the motion uhu okay I need a second a second I got a first in a second she yes Tony Hamond yes Patrick fley no Susan rafella no James Ryan Yes Lor Lon yes and Deb gilas yes motion passes 5 to two Okay now I need a motion for Isles a future land use map from um residential medium to mixed juice but but sub area two thank you so move second I got a first and a second who me you were one and and Cheryl they're Trading Places okay you could have it Tony Hamman yes Cheryl hon yes Patrick Foley Susan rafo no James run yes Lorie lant yes and Deb Gillis yes motion passes 5 to two Okay and then the last one is the when the zoning map change from um residential R1 to Highway commercial I need a motion so moved and a second a second I as well keep it going Cheryl cson yes Tony hman yes patri FY no Susan raidel no Jam shine yes Lorie Von yes and Deb Gillis yes motion passes 5 to two all right uh we are at the bottom of our agenda um there's the you're welcome ma' uh chair or local planning agency members have anything else particular this evening yes I would like to bring forward to for Jennifer's benefit and I believe back about before Irma so it was 2016 or early 2017 we had a long discussion about notice on everything we were doing because at that time we were still notify noticing on everything came before LPA um I don't know how it got out of the Habit the biggest thing we had a discussion about because it was when the paral Le Plantation issue came up um Cheryl you need to be on the microphone okay the paral plantation came up was what prompted this discussion and its first Incarnation for redevelopment that putting a sign back on the property itself without taking it out to where most people would travel which would be the highway or the entrance into a community was what something that needed to be happened I was under the impression it had passed the council but apparently it has disappeared so it's something we probably need to suggest back to council or bring it up to ourselves again but it made a huge difference when we were posting the signs not back in the neighborhood for instance back in Venetian Shores or back in the colony but you posted back there on the property impacted but out of the highway where you entered that neighborhood so you're talking a secondary sign it's a secondary sign uh sorry I just um I I believe that that's in place is it um it place a signs it's every 200 feet and then Place ass signs no more than 25 ft from the street so Le earing is visible from the street where the land does not have Frontage on the street sign should be erected on the nearest Street with the attached notation indicating generally the direction and distance to the property of the application um oh but you're you're saying even if you're front of Street you take it out to the perfect examples Port Antiga Port Antigua technically does not start until you get back where you turn on to Gul so if you're turning driving by The Neighborhood which you're you're in white Marland Beach or the other way you're not going to see it because you're not turning down that street but if it's posted out on US1 or the old road which is where the majority of the traffic has to it cross you're going to have notice same thing with the old road I don't go down the old road that often unless the traffic's really bad but there's a lot of parcels back there for instance wherever they've had the the highway patrol Stand Down arag good I think it is um if there was something going on at the end of arag good it would not be posted down the road and we wouldn't necessarily know about it so we it was a specific discussion it needs to go to a major artery and it's it's not that hard it's just a secondary sign but it post on whatever the major artery is it enters the community where the property is located I'll have to look into that but I think it might pose a little bit of an issue if there's no if we don't own any property there we can't post property on private we can't post a sign of private property can we post it on the RightWay I mean that's I'd have to have a conversation with the public works director about that he doesn't typically like we had that conversation and it made a difference in some of our hearings because people back in those communities and at the time it was Venetian Shores that was having all the problems because of the roads you're suggesting two like two signs one on the property on the property and then out at the the entrance off of whatever major artery is on that island to get into that community so that you have warning I don't see what's on other streets in my neighborhood if I don't go all the way down through the neighborhood but if I see it at the entrance to Venetian Shores or if I see SE at the entrance to the Colony um especially since almost everybody's turned over their landscape into the village there's no reason we can't work that out all right any other public comments I've got or any other comment from the board quick question so is up zoning in our language Susan in the village language or is that a oh you it's not a definition of Village code but it it is a it is a planning term okay I just I I knew we didn't have it in our code that was what I was referring to so I'm just just checking because if we're going to refer to it that way we need to refer to it that way so I I just need to ask about the next meeting because uh Tony said he wasn't going to be here and then um Jim's going to need to recuse himself from sojourn so that means that everybody else needs to be here for us to move forward so uh if there's anybody who knows right now they're not going to be here we need to know but if you don't know right now but you know is I'm going to have to let you know because I have a caregiver issue okay so let me know as soon as possible and then that was April the 8th April the 8th yes please then let me put this on the record now in two years we've never for the city council's benefit we have never not had a meeting due to lack of Quorum so I'll put it on the record now while it's a true statement it is a true statement well maybe one there might have been I don't remember one not done the research yet I know that's one of my things to do the research on Christmas one and then um just I know you had um maybe a couple months ago asked about the me about the possibility of moving if I needed you to move the meeting because Council meetings the same week and so um if that's still on the table I would um greatly um ask if the LPA would look at potentially moving the meeting to a different week it's just becoming very stressful and a lot can you can you um I thought it might uh can you uh uh provide all of us through an email or something an opportunity of what week you're talking so that we can look at our calendars and see if if the first second third or fourth is better make a recommendation for us and and we can discuss it at the next meeting then put it on the agenda for the next meeting that okay correct okay um uh with future agenda items we just discussed that planning director Village manager we've already handled all that uh next date of the meeting we've talked about that Village attorney Madam attorney welcome we don't get to see your smiling face very often you can't really see it but I can't see it anyway oh never mind um now I need a motion motion to a journ oh my goodness I'll second