[Music] [Applause] okay everybody we're gonna get started now thank you thank you all for coming for those of you who don't know my name is Jennifer deob and I'm the planning director here at the village VI marada I'd like to thank you all for coming to our noise ordinance Workshop this is the first and what I hope to be several workshops on planning related topics in the future I'd also like to just take a moment to introduce planning staff that are here this evening we have Regine Charles Bower who Bowser who you might have gotten um some emails from or some agendas from we have Heidi Harum we have Daniel parabo and we have Jamie Terry over here so that's our planning staff we also have Anita mxo on our planning staff but she was unable to make it this evening so I just wanted to welcome you all and introduce the staff uh if you haven't already I'd ask you to sign in in our signin sheet um that's the way we can keep track of who's here this evening and you can also be informed of future workshops and next steps for this evening um in front of you tonight you have two note cards um one of those you can use to jot down questions during our presentation so when we get to the Q a the general Q&A you can organize your thoughts or you know not sort of all over the place and then the second one we'd just like you to use for any future Workshop ideas that you might have for the planning department any planning topics that you might have whether it be you know let's look at transfer of development rights let's talk about you know habit tag classifications anything like that any ideas that you might have we're looking for your input because we want this to work for you as the community so please use that you know if you don't have any ideas that's fine too but we'd like to see what your ideas are so let me get going oops I always do this wrong oh did I shut it off which there we go so this is just a brief agenda so again we just did the welcome and introduction the we're going to go through a brief presentation tonight then we're going to have a general Q&A about the presentation and then we're doing something a little different tonight than I think you've done here before in Isa marada I'm relatively new for those of you that don't know I've only been here just over a year I have about almost 30 years of planning experience in Massachusetts and where I do Workshop when I did workshops in Massachusetts this is how we sort of set things up right we have Roundtable discussions we get a variety of ideas together and we talk about the issues and we come back to the larger group and present a good thoughtful discussion so that's what I'm hoping we get through tonight and then we're going to take a short break so we can compile some of your thoughts we we have some food for you that we're going to put out in a little bit um you can have take part in that in the during the break and then we're going to report back to the group from the round table have a final Q&A and go over next steps so that's where we're going to that's what our process is this evening um obviously people's schedules are tight I'm I'm aiming for this to be of a couple hours but if you have to leave for whatever reason I totally understand and you know we hope that you get out of it whatever you can get out of it and reach out to us if have questions you know after the fact we're always here to answer your questions so I'm going to get started with our presentation so what is the noise ordinance a noise ordinance is just a local law that sets limits on the noise levels that we allow you know during specific times um or areas of the Village um the goal is to maintain the peaceful environment by addressing excessive noise um that may cause a disturbance The Village's noise ordinance is article 18 in our village code and it provides for certain specifications and the purpose of the ordinance The Village's noise ordinance is to and this is quoted exactly from the code provide an efficient procedure for the prohibit prohibition of excessive unnecessary or unnaturally loud noises within the unincorp within the Incorporated areas of the village its importance is that it regulates loud noise to protect public health safety and Welfare within the village limits go ahead some of the key provisions of our village noise ordinance is chapter 18 section 18- 63 is a general prohibition which bit says that no person shall by any method or device make continue or cause to be made or continued any noise disturbance within the village except as Allowed by this article and then it goes on to have Provisions about unmuffled exhaust multif family dwellings pagers public address systems and telephones we do have some exemptions in our code um for emergency situations which includes emergency alarms emergency maintenance um emergency work by public employees um public in property including School athletic facilities and Village owned property like Founders par par that is all Exempted from the noise ordinance um aircraft in conjunction with an approved use and Zoning so at Tavern Arrow there's no U noise ordinance if an aircraft is coming into land there um construction activity is allowed between 7:00 a.m. and Sundown and Lawn and Garden maintenance and Machinery is allowed between 7:00 a.m. and Sundown I'm sorry construction is 7:30 and Sund to sundown outdoor bands Amplified music and entertainers on all approved commercial prod properties between 10:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m. I'm sorry 700 a.m. and 1000 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 7 a.m. through 11: p.m. Friday and Saturday so that's approved commercial properties in a commercial District how do we measure the noise that's the question we get a lot per the village code our noise is measured by ordinary auditory senses of a reasonable person with normal sensitivities with without the assistance of a mechanical device so they can't have a hearing aid they can't have any mechanical device assistance assisting their hearing of the noise and the measurement should be taken not less than 50 feet from The Sound Source another option that some people have mentioned and we prior to this you know we did say that you could provide written comments in advance of this meeting we did receive a lot of comments and a lot of people have suggested or asked about um decibel meters so another op option would be to establish decibel levels for different types of noise in different areas and use a decel meter for measurement that is another option enforcement procedures so in the village currently we enforce our code through the Code Compliance Department in the village or the monu County Sheriff's office so if you have a complaint about noise you would start with the village Code Compliance Department obviously if it's after hours you could call the sheriff's office and they would come out and and take a look for you so that's the basic presentation on what our noise ordinance is and what A noise ordinance is so are there any general Q&A Q&A questions about our noise ordinance or noise ordinances in general we have a mic I'm going to have someone grab it for you just give me one sec just so everybody can hear your question [Laughter] thank you uh Mark manini um many business owners who are here and other people who um are kind of the left brain type deal with numbers and before we can even do deciel meters and figure out what's an appropriate level you first have to have a baseline And the reason why I say that is because let's look at your body temperature how do you know if you have a fever well it's over 98 .6 where did we get the 98.6 from we got 100 orifices hopefully we got 100 thermometers or clean one off we got an average right and that 98.6 is what is considered normal anything above that is a fever I say that because I could be at the end of my property by my pool have this on 10:00 at night nothing going on and it's 55 to 60 DB that's just wind ocean noise 55 to 60 DB I could walk out to Old Highway and be in front of my property now that moves to 65 to 70 DB 10:00 at night I go out to Overseas Highway 10:00 at night not when it's real busy commercial traffic it's 75 to 85 DB without having a baseline of different areas of what is considered normal to put in a deciel limit you have to have first the Baseline you can't just say anything over 60 DB is not appropriate when there could be no sound happening and it's already over 65 because of ambient noise that happens in the background with cars with wind and so forth so the biggest concern for me is again I'm a numbers guy and I want to know I'll be fully compliant with any law I just need to know where I need to be and I'll be there so when we have a wedding at our property and I walk out in the street and I do a decel reading it is strictly within ordinances the police we hire at the weddings they're there they're always saying everything's great there's no it's not loud so I guess my concern is is it going to be subjective like that and then 50 ft from a source if you've got three acres and that loud source is in a small area but everyone else around there because if I do deciel readings on my property I stay within even 75 DB being at the corner of my lot and that's probably 200t from The Sound Source um but again that's over at the corner of the property by the ocean and there's no one on that side now what sound does travel across water I get that and so we're going to work on seeing if I can come to his house this weekend and do a measurement uh but uh from the road we don't hear anything and so that's the only thing I really have to concern myself with because we've been a wedding venue for the last 15 years and going back to I think around 2007 Judy if correct um I know the TDC and the Chamber really tried to push for Destination weddings in the town and I think Ken stroble uh was one of the lawyers uh here who was on that board uh he was on the board of the chamber I believe in Fr 2007 and uh and the TDC both advocated for Destination weddings to get more Revenue into the town get jobs for people who need it here and we're more than willing to abide by any and every law in place just give us the number and we'll fit it great thank you you anybody else have any questions about the don't turn it off it makes a cracking noise I guess Joe wishire Plantation key one thing that I noticed on here that's not being addressed is a lot of the vacation rentals the short-term rentals I know in my neighborhood there's a house that has 10 or 12 people all the time and it just gets all they just come down here to party every night that's what they come down down for and I remember in the past that uh an officer got up in one of the village meetings said he got called to one of these but they wouldn't let him in there was really not much they could do so I wish that something could be put in there specifically regarding some of these shortterm rentals perfect thank you anyone else have anything uh Craig McBay Plantation key um as we're starting to go through this process a question I do have is do you have any sorts of stats as far as complaints you've had through Code Compliance or Sheriff's Office like hey these are the sorts of problems that we're seeing so let's you know what sort of solutions because I know every neighborhood every business there's all kinds of different problems from different people but it's not the same problems everywhere so do you guys have any kind of information to say okay this is the problems that we're seeing these are the complaints we're getting I don't have that information this evening but I do have the ability to to print that information we track all of our complaints through our city view uh permitting process so I can certainly get that information out to you know everybody who signed up and put that on the list um I do know that you know back when you know I first started and this became a Hot Topic I did ask the code Department if they were seeing a lot of complaints and the answer was no at that time but that was you know eight nine months ago so I don't know what's happened since then but I certainly can can get those numbers out to you okay and now one of the other um I guess sort of question their comments um so decimal meters they've come up over the years time and time again so uh Sheriff's Office I inforcement and how you know before we get too far down the road to say all right let's do this how easy I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything but that's probably needs to be something that needs to be addressed is if we put this in place how easy is it to actually enforce and is is it something that will stand up through Code Compliance or through Sheriff's uh sheriff's office so it's I guess that's I want to speak for the captain but I will say that obviously we wouldn't put propose anything in any new ordinance that couldn't be enforced or couldn't be held up to a legal Challenge and we would work with our village attorney before we brought it forward to the council um we would get the input of the sheriff's department regarding their concerns as well so we would take those steps okay yeah I just obviously don't want us to get all the way down the road and then say no we can't do that right that's that's all all right thank you anybody else Ken Phillipson Isa Mara uh what's unique tonight is that he draws number two I draw number two and I filed a complaint against him uh and my complaint was this uh his property is own residential and yet he has many commercial activities going on in that property with a noise level that's very disturbing I've lived there 35 years and for most of that time I didn't have a problem anyway what's unique is that being able to sit down and discuss this with Mark I think we'll be able to resolve our differences I can't fix his zoning problem but he can fix that on his own thank you great see one good [Laughter] thing hi hi Sandy bigly I'm a full-time resident I have two questions one under Section 1867 exemptions letter J it says there can be outdoor bands on approved commercial properties and I was just wondering my question is is it also allowed in Residential Properties because in our neighborhood we also deal with bands and DJs but I don't see where it's allowed so it's approved commercial property so it would be if they were approved for commercial use I think what you're referring to is vacation rentals that then offer a wedding or no or just well maybe and or people who just have a big party and they hire a band and a DJ and then hundreds of homes have to listen to that music for hours so I don't I don't see where on here that's Exempted so they would have to follow the noise work and my last question is um cottage industry permits I don't see anything about and I'll give you an example people in residential lots for I I'll give you a real example somebody operating a sawmill seven or eight hours a day in their yard 5 days a week sounds very commercial to me but so are there permits for cottage industry that make noise thank you I'll look into that thank you I I just wanted to follow up on something Craig said and I wanted to see if I could put uh Captain Paul on the spot for just a little bit he and I have talked about the enforcement side of this before and I think that's you know that's something you should hear about first before you go dreaming up ways to control this so Captain if you wouldn't mind we spoke about Amplified music and I think uh construction and Lawn Equipment before and and then tell them the pros and cons of a decel meter so I'll start with a deciel meter first that's what the ordinance used to read countywide um I think if don't quote me on this it was like 300 DB for three minute three consecutive minutes or something like that the first issue that we found with that years ago was um even a live band doesn't really stay at 300 for three minutes consecutively um so every time and I'll use the old F full moon parties as an example we responded to that constantly about the junker band that would start up and we would sit outside with the uh decio meter and with the timer and then at 2 minutes and 30 seconds it would stop for a second the decimal meter would go to zero then it would start again so the timer starts again at three 3 minutes that was one issue another issue um Turned more into a um uh something to do with I don't I don't think it was ever set in case law but there is an issue with um the calibration of decibel meters keeping them calibrated how do we prove that they're reading properly um as law enforcement we have with with our breathalizer machines we have to get them calibrated monthly with um our Radars we have to get them calibrated um uh twice annually same with our lasers every piece of equipment we use is is um calibrated constantly um we didn't have the means to get the U Dall meters calibrated number one number two um that was you know a big issue in the past so currently the way the the Ordinance Works with the with with respects to um the village of R marada we pretty much do it the same way in the whole County because it's gone through our legal department but what happens is is um specifically after hours when code enforcement is not available we resp respond to um let's just let's I I'll use the vacation rental um we respond to them um quite often and what we do is we document The Noise by Body camera and by mostly by Body camera we'll have the deputy stand um more than 50 ft from the property and we'll we'll record it on body camera we'll make contact with who's responsible for the property we will um explain the ordinance to them explain they need to turn the music down and um what we will do is we will do what we call a field contact card and we will forward that through Code Compliance and Code Compliance if they if it ever turns into an issue where it goes to a code hearing the officer will be available just like any other um court appearance we will make sure the officer is available to go and testify to the body camera uh I will tell you that in my experience um 90% times we get compliance for first time most people turn it down most um and that's um you know generally speaking most people just they don't want to deal with it um there I know that there's um uh when it comes to businesses and so forth um we we will people call it could be 2 o'clock in the afternoon we will still make contact with the business and ask them to turn it down if it's too loud we'll just say hey neighbors are complaining we know you're exempt but can you turn it down a little bit and 99% of the time we get compliance um excuse me so um same with Lawn Equipment you know and and there's there's two fold with the lawn equipment I mean number one you want your neighbors taking care of the property you don't want it to look like um you know driving down the road with weeds growing up but um generally speaking we don't normally get an issue before the times are that they're required or that they're allowed um but when we do we we we do address that too and a lot of equipment is the same issue really doesn't usually fit under the if you would go with the with the desal reader which I don't you know it doesn't fall under that 300 deal and I just keep throwing that out that's what it used to be but um you know there's a lot of um noise has been an issue in this County for I mean I've worked in I've worked in Marathon I've worked in kilargo this is nothing new this is a an issue issue that we've had in this County especially now with um um a lot more vacation rentals and um generally speaking that is that is mostly our violators um especially on weekends um we have certain subdivisions I won't mention them you guys know where they are that we're constantly in there dealing with noise and one of the one of the issues um noise the noise ordinance doesn't really apply to a residence there's no exemptions to a residents so at 12:00 in the afternoon if it's too loud it's too loud and we'll address it and we will record it and we will forward it if need be um you know and we don't generally and I don't I don't have the numbers but we generally don't get too many complaints on businesses nowadays but when we do we we will address you know we we'll meet with a manager or meet with a band or a DJ and ask them to turn it down anything else yeah could you just give me one quick example what is 300 what would that be it's pretty loud but um I yeah you know you're asking the wrong guy you know um it it was pretty loud um I can tell you I know if anybody's been around I know a lot of people been around since the old days with the with the full moon parties that junkeroo band was 350 maybe at the highway so I I you know it just uh it and it constantly fluctuates that's another issue with music especially Amplified music so thank you Captain thanks Captain I don't know I guess I'll the weigh in I as as somebody who used to hear the complaints at the county and here at the Village when I ran code enforcement and the building department who are you oh I'm sorry I'm I'm Don Horton I thought everybody knew me you probably do but who doesn't know me here anyway anyway I'm Don Horton and and I of course a retired building official for Alam R and ran the code enforcement and uh from the county as well I was their building official and and and the complaints when I when I worked at the county um it it was done by deible meters of course I left the county in 2000 and and here in Alam from 2000 to 2005 and and this is a a this is just a reoccurring discussion that this community has we have always had this same ordinance changed a little bit times have changed a little bit days have changed a little bit but we're I feel like we're going to continue to have this conversation until we have something that's measurable um what's noisy to me uh may not be noisy to you uh what bothers me even as a u uh you know an ordinary person with a ordinary although I wear hearing aids auditory senses um and maybe that's because of tooo many years of listening to loud rock and roll I don't know but um but unless it's measurable I don't just don't know how anybody can constantly take a complaint and and nowadays with the technology that we have um I know that it's used in Fort Lauderdale it's used in in in areas of Miami where they've got the the inter Coastal Waterway and they've got businesses on one side and residents on the other and there's a lot of business businesses with their noise in ordinance that um they actually have monitors or sensors on their property line and if the Amplified music is too loud Those sensors automatically turn those amplifiers down and and so it helps the surrounding Neighbors at the same time it helps the businesses um so that they don't have to constantly take complaints these these uh meters actually monitor what's going on at the property the complaints are or the codes are always is written where it's outside of of of the property so it has to be in the public way or in the neighbors you know if it complain so um you know what bothers me is not necessarily what's going to bother you so I I think that we need to figure out a way to uh find a way to meter those it it be like me driving down the highway at at 40 and and Captain saying Don it I felt like you were doing 45 you know and I'm going no cap I was only doing 40 but it looked like you were doing 45 but so how we you know how would we prove that right um of course he's trained it how fast the car is and how fast it goes and and I'm not so I'm going to be driving thinking I'm doing 40 but I might be doing 45 so I think we need to go with something that's measurable or we're going to continue to have this discussion year after year or every fourth year or something I know we had it twice when Deb was on coun and we're we're having it again so that's just my thought I think Judy you still have a comment Judy had a comment down and then I just want to have a brief comment about vacation rentals I have a brief comment about vacation rentals great nervous all right my comment is really just a suggestion when we've done this before Dave Vader has always been in the room and he's the head of Isam Mara Community entertainment he can talk um the debb with us all day long you know this ban is brings it up to this level and this band is softer so my suggestion is let's I reached out to him but let's make sure that he's in the conversation because he truly is an expert and then when we talk residential if we were in around this room everyone would have a different thing it could be someone restoring an antique car which will shake the glass out of your house or you know it could be a boat going down the canal it's very different for everyone in the room and so um I think we have to keep that in mind too it's not just music right thank you Russ had something too he wanted I'll just make it quick um Jennifer thank you for holding this meeting I'm really inspired by this um Gathering of of lots of different people from lots of different places and um I look forward to this civilized discussion so thank you this G be the last one then we're going to move on to our fun part uh Russell jel I actually represent the land owner that is next to Mr Mancini's wedding venue um so a couple things I agree with Don Horton you must have an objective standard uh the county actually has both it has a subjective standard and it has a 75 DB I think is what the county has um you know I heard about this ordinary reasonable person 30 years ago in law school I've been trying to find him ever since sense okay um it is just too subjective of a standard um I suspect that if you were have looked at the success rate of your numbers you would probably that would be borne out by that uh so you know I think the other thing is that most of the time and I think it is Amplified music that is the problem um yes there are other sources most of those are temporary but it's usually Amplified and and the problem my client has with Mr Mancini is that though we call it a vacation rental those are Residential Properties okay and they're effectively being turned into commercial venues and so even you know it's kind of an expectation analysis when you live next to an airport you kind of expect to have a little more noise when you live next to a golf course you expect to have a golf ball in your yard so you know part of it I think is that you know people move into a residential neighborhood they expect the normal noise associated with a residential neighborhood neighborhood they don't expect it to turn into a commercial venue and and so that's something that needs to be addressed is the type of the zoning or the flum and to say it shouldn't just be necessarily one number that we apply across the board maybe those expectations change based upon if you're next to a commercial venue or if you're in a residential area so I'm Deb Gillis and yes I sat on Council and yes I think it was at least twice that we had this discussion and I was just going to bring up the fact that we had um it was actually a business but it could apply to Vacation Rentals or any other noise venue uh one that did not want to come into compliance and they finally came into compliance and they put up um noise baffles I'll call them I don't know exact terms that they did but it it resolved the problem because we went and we negotiated I guess with that that person and to make the noise stop and that was part of the problem was it was across the water we are a water Community we're going to have that problem so we put iing glass on one more in the back the the gentleman in the blue shirt and then we're going to move on to the round table I'm Mike Wilkinson of La uh is marada um this I'm kind of going to piggyback off you sir and it does have to be subjective and is primarily pertaining to music as we all know um but for an establishment like Lori where the residentials really far spread out whether it be across the water or inside of the neighborhood in uh off of madira our music doesn't affect anyone so like you said it does have to be subjective and it can't be a certain decimal amount that's applied across the village because it's some areas are going to be louder than others when it pertains to residential our music never goes past 10:00 anyway so I don't really think it's going to be that big of an issue I know we're trying to do earlier than that but it does like you said have to be subjective sir because of the area right thank you okay so that was all great stuff but we're going to move on now to the round table discussion and breakout session so what I'd like everybody to do is at your table um choose one person at your table it can be the staff person if you have a staff person at your table or if you don't it can be one of you to be the Scribe um to take notes for the table I just want you all to have like an honest discussion with each other about what are the noise issues in the community what are you seeing what are you hearing ha um sorry I had to do it um and what do you think we changes we could make how could we make it better and then we're going to do that for about half an hour and then for about 15 minutes I want you to look at that list and come up with a top three or four for your table and highlight those for us and then during the break we're going to put those top three or four together for each table and we're going to come back and have a a larger discussion so that's where we are right now and I just want everybody to have a chance to speak because I know some people don't like to speak on the mic in front of a larger group so I thought this was a good setting to do that so have at it good [Music] [Music] luck e e e e e e e e e e okay everybody we got about 10 or 15 minutes left if you want to narrow down your topics e e everybody you got five more minutes if you can narrow down your top three or four hot topics e e e [Music] okay everybody we're going to wrap it up now if you have your top three or four and you've written them down if you could get them to Jamie here in the pink shirt and then we're going to take a little bit of break we have some sandwiches and fruit some cookies and water so help yourselves during the break and we'll get back to you probably in about 15 minutes so help yourselves stretch your legs get to know each other a little better we have a lot of food so don't be [Music] shy e e e e okay we're going to get back to the report back now everybody wants to take a seat you can continue to eat we have a ton of food left and I'm I'm not taking it home so we're going to get back now going to thanks whoever's doing that [Music] Jamie um you can continue to eat while we do our report back the food's going to stay out we have plenty of food so help yourselves um right now we're just going to do some report out of what happened in your discussion groups um Jamie took your you know top three or four she there were some obviously probably some crossover amongst the groups so she Consolidated and she you know typed them into the report for us here so we're going to go through and what I do like to do is ask if somebody from one of the tables who had one of these issues maybe like explain a little bit about uh what they're what they're referring to or what their suggestion is or what if they want to elaborate a little bit more on it so we're going to need the mic again Jamie so so the first first one is vacation rentals enforcement fines and how many so does anybody want to tackle that for us what were you guys talking about think how many violations do we oh how many violations okay does anybody want to tackle that from any one of the tables go I know we uh discussed that a little bit um just like you know we I've got a vacation Arnold myself you know what I mean it's again it's above our bar so we don't complain too much but know how much of an issue vacation rentals are throughout the community and how much money they bring in for the owners so if their tenants customers or whatever you want to call them are being noisy maybe that could help them police themselves to keep the noise down if they know if they're too noisy they could lose their license that's going to be a big deal for the owners to try to again you know just regulate themselves I think for through a lot of these different things the more self-regulation you can do the better as opposed to trying to mandate things but um so that just might help that you know put put some of it on the owners to keep their uh their tenants in check and as far as how many violations was that just like keep track of how many violations or did anybody have oh did you want to answer that noise well what it came down to is if you get a certain number of violations then you pull their license or a lot there are so many illegal vacation rentals too that if there's you know a number of noise complaints to be double checking and investigate to find out if they are illegal vacation rentals that could all kind of tie into the same thing perfect thank you does anybody else want to talk about this topic before we move to the next one yes what we talked about was the enforcement of the vacation rentals but then how many times can a vacation rental have an event uh well and what is very ironic is that that these two lovely gentlemen have you know neighboring properties and so what we were talking about is so if if one person is using their house as a vacation rental and then the neighbor does and and then you have this ongoing um you know like com competing weddings what does that look like that like that's the scenario we're creating when we don't kind of set some limitations on on what can happen in the vacation rental which which again is hypothetical but I mean you not really you could start your vacation rental business tomorrow with your wedding venue tomorrow so it's very puzzling interesting great but it suggest that there should be some formal procedure around how we regulate it great okay so the next one is banss and orientation or location of the stage for bands to minimize noise educate about noise ordinance and have them sign an understanding who wants to have that it looks like somebody has the mic already hi uh I'm Lissa I work here um so this was yes there uh this was kind of tied in with the next one as well but um as an operator I had to learn the hard way when I was in the way of my surrounding neighbors and sometimes when we disagreed about what was reasonable um but I think there are a lot of things that you can do as someone mentioned um you know if Dave fader knows a lot about sound when it comes to live music to provide resources to operators to help them not have to learn the hard way so uh at the location that has been talked about a lot in this room that we are planning from the beginning The Sound Engineering was a big part of the conversation how do we mitigate our sound creation based on size of speakers placement of speakers placement of the music um you know technology um that you can use to lower zones or whatever um it's a lot easier to do in the planning stage than when you're thinking about it two years later after you've had a lot of noise complaints um so it was the idea was in the planning stage education and information for operators who want to be good neighbors or want to be better neighbors um to know what to do best practices that's a great suggestion thanks anyone else want to tackle this one good okay the next one is surround sound speaker size same thing okay perfect Amplified music and residentially zoned properties who wants to take that one anyone someone had it on their [Laughter] sheet I I in some I think it's redundant of the other ones the vacation rentals as I understand the code generally fall in residential areas so you know and then we've had the discussion about the wedding venues but the the fundamental problem seems to be most everybody's raising is whether it's residential and whether it's a vacation rental or not your neighbor you know should be respectful as well and so it's really we think focus more generally speaking your complaints are loud music in residential neighborhoods whether it's a vacation rental or or not that seems to be the primary area of concern is that right ladies yes exactly okay word for word look at that that's why he's the [Laughter] lawyer and a quick point to make you know since we're everyone's talking about our area and my property you know there's two Residential Properties that AB but to a commercial hotel and there is always kids yelling there's always music playing there's fireworks going off and you know so yes we're residential we're Zone residential we have a commercial we have a a license to do vacation rentals which allows us to do Commerce rent out the property and allows for events without having to be a commercial property so the residential portion of it falls underneath the short-term rentals but again the the the Zone residential there are places where you have I don't know why there is a hotel in between a dozen homes don't know how that happened but it did and a buffer zone is a short-term rental before there's residential because you can't just go put houses next to it and expect it to be quiet when you're next to a hotel great anyone else on that one oh down here in the front really okay we get it right okay uh we also listed Amplified music and residential Zone properties such as hiring a band and DJ and um apparently it's not covered in the exemptions as you had mentioned before and that's that's why we listed it does that cover it I think you you mean like for a private party or no that's a different that's pardon me you mean like for a private party or a private party that's held outside that has a DJ and loud music okay perfect great thank you yeah the next one would be previous noise ordinance had proposed proposed had times days regulated Sundays and holidays why not adopt it maybe somebody who's been here longer than me can answer that question you need the mic I was looking at Mark and he was ignoring oh hello um because the Sundays and the holidays we have all sorts of activities going on from um lawn maintenance leaf blowers uh hedge Trippers trimmers construction uh they come in they even stay during the night with tile saws they'll run outside cut the tile then come back in and lay the tile um it just doesn't stop and now with so many of these beautiful homes having outdoor kitchens large TVs and they want to come home from church only to the sound of all the construction or whatever is going on and it's it's a shame because that's part of our you know part of your mission is to give us quiet peaceful enjoyment and you know I can give you one example and I think I even sent it into the village it went on on a Sunday and it was a beautiful day you could open your windows and they had a lift that was painting a house and every five feet up five feet down five feet over five feet to the left beep beep beep it went on all day long all day long on a Sunday and you you had to go in you had to be in your house okay so I would like to see some regulation to the times on Sundays and holidays okay I think it's only fair so thank you ises anybody else want to address that it looks like there's people that might want to talk to that and that was on the residential side just like you know more for those contractors and landscapers and stuff like that not so much for you know yeah I use my lift all the time who Mark didn't oh who no that I was the only reason I was saying is because you were on Council last time we brought it up so they were asking why it wasn't adopted running for reelection I I'm not speaking about that right now so uh by way of History the way I remember things a couple of years ago we had discussions and meetings and maybe a workshop about this and there was there was two sides to the coin so as you see on the wall there's the resident right of quiet enjoyment and you know this part of the country Sunday Morning has generally been a quiet time and some people attend a house of worship and observe that as a quiet day other people use it as their off day to catch up on household chores and duties and Contra contractors build so um there was the balance between the right of Qui enjoyment and um someone's right to earn a living and we tried things we we discussed well maybe you know you don't start working Sunday till afternoon or Saturday you know Less hours than on the weekday and we just really couldn't come to um a good balance that everybody could Embrace and so I was hopeful that that might come back up again tonight uh but you know it's it's complicated I'll say that and it's difficult because folks have to earn a living and folks have a right to be quiet and and enjoy the quiet in their own home so how do we do that I was hoping you all could answer that because we couldn't do it so if if I hope that answered your questions we we never could get it to a point we vote maybe Deb remembers can I can I throw her under the bus [Laughter] now yeah I was sitting on LPA trying to come up with that answer for you um we we made some suggestions and threw it to council to to find out and yes we tried to make some some inroads as to the quiet enjoyment plus the people that are have the second and third jobs of trying to make a living so that they can stay here and yeah one of the things was to back it off a little bit on the weekends but not to void weekends we could pull that back up and look at it um the LPA worked very hard at coming up with an idea on that and it just didn't go anywhere at the time I I was going to also add the the amphi music in residential zoning districts um we we you did a great job for us talking about you did but we we were talking about the the fact that it's not necessarily a particular event that's going on it's somebody that's um come down for the weekend they they they really have it's a second home for them and they've come down for the weekend to enjoy the the surroundings and maybe not even the weekend maybe through the week they've come down and and they throw their own party it's it's not a a big Affair but they're noisy and Loud because they're enjoying themselves and but there needs to be uh maybe not the same limits on time and restrictions as we have on commercial but something applied to residential as well thank you thank anyone else on that someone in the back Jamie back yeah Craig Lim back I don't see really where the city should be making a thing about this Sunday stuff most contractors I was born and raised here I do work seven days a week five or six days a week I have to survive Sundays after church I do mow my lawn and I'm sorry okay but if you're a neighbor why don't we get back to knowing each other call the neighbor say hey I'm trying to sleep here I'm trying to do this you know how many times they come over when I'm jackhammering a pool on a Sunday guy goes hey I got friends in town do you mind hell no let me get off the machine I'm ready to go home but just let's try to you know don't make so many more laws for God's sakes we got enough thank you all right on the ne on the next one is leave the same question marks Did stop start times okay earlier would be problematic to businesses I'm guessing you have something to say I might um we were discussing that adamantly over here and that's that if everyone has been abiding by the roles that have been set forth for such a long duration of time why modify them to appease just a few and disturb the mass it just it doesn't make any sense to me personally and I I believe most of the people at this table were in agreement to that and 10:00 is not not an absurd time is it's not terribly late it's not 11:00 and that's just that hour difference as well but 9:00 would be detrimental such to as a business as myself or Isam R A Fish Company where we do our business around Sunset that's where a good chunk of our business comes from if I tell a band they can't be there at 9:00 but the sunset doesn't set till 8 I'm paying a band for to leave early when everyone's still there and if if you had issues with people disregarding the time set forth like if we were constantly playing music at 11:00 or if other entities were then okay it makes sense but to to disturb the masses to appease a few doesn't make any sense to me personally thank you for that anybody else want to talk about this one down the front here Jamie thank you I certainly concur with that we had many many years ago on when I was on the Council we negotiated the 11:00 hour because the businesses wanted it later and so we negotiated 11 o'clock and I really think it needs to stay that way the last one is firework oh sorry that's okay times yeah I think well one of the reasons actually the beginning as far as uh code uh enforcement you know questions is again if it's not broke don't fix it so to speak so that's why I was wondering how much of a problem is it I know I'm not going to say it's not a problem you know different areas are different problems um but again if it's not a big massive problem Village Wide then why should we fix it and something we talked about at our table is working area by area um you know working with your neighbors hey what's the problem how can we solve this so you know businesses can operate residents can enjoy their their life and try to coexist you know our Island's not getting bigger we're not getting more space you know obviously we got to figure out how to uh how to survive together I know it's kind of a little kumay aish and maybe too too much but um it would be nice if something like that could happen thank you the last one is firework regulations um anyone to talk about this I was just informed by the captain that fireworks oh there is oh I'm sorry not the last one oh I thought we were done almost um the last one on this slide I was informed by Captain Paul that fireworks are regulated by the state um so we don't have a lot really to say about it but does anybody wants to talk about firework regulations they' be happy to chat quickly local they they say they believe you have to have a local license to do fireworks so State Statute now Governor D Sanz put in that on certain nights on 4th of July um the uh New Year's and I believe New Year's Day they are now legal to fire off fireworks so now during the rest of the year the rest of the time you're absolutely correct somebody have to have a permit to do such because they are illegal the rest of the time but there's been a lot of uh leaning given to fireworks since uh guess the last couple years I'm not sure exactly what the state statute says any because I really haven't paid much attention to it but I do know that they he's he's given some leniency towards it used to be illegal no matter what but now they've it is coming over State Statute now are fire you know big mortars going off and bottle rockets considered the same thing they are now they used to not be but anything that blew up or um self-propelled we were not allowed they were illegal but now the governor has uh given the clearance to all that on certain nights certain days certain days but it's but but and the village does have a a provision in the code that if um Florida Brew wants to fire fireworks off they have to have a permit or or if somebody had a wedding wants to do it they supposed to have a permit and the proper uh um person with a license prate Technic license to do do such that does not apply on a on those holidays my son lights off a Roman Candle on I said my son not me let the do it on those certain nights they're legal so I think that's what he's referring to we'll have to get more information on that thank you all right our next SL oh there's one more one question sorry okay so if we uh decided to put some fireworks off how long does it take to get the permit I'm not even sure who issues the permit to be honest with you the planning department doesn't issue that permit so I don't know how long that would take ask Chief able I would that's where I'd go yeah I think yeah fire department probably fire the co guard yeah good information anyone else on fireworks okay so the slide I didn't know about um recommend new technology I.E silent disco I guess we're coming over here to this T silent disco that's this I know what a silent disco is I watch a lot of Bravo they do them on Bravo we were talking more about what Lissa had said about new technology and speakers and kind of what Don said about setting up peripher you know zones to where you can you know regulate the sound and there's I think some new sound speakers that you know create a wall of some sort so that's more and then they some people are saying after 11:00 if you really want to get into it then you can get into the silent disco and if you haven't heard of that I think it's where you wear headphones and and dance dance and look at each other kind of weird but well it makes sense to you cuz you hear the music but everybody looking at you thinks especially the people that are like looking that don't have those on yes exactly yes right but there could be like other people like serving food that are like oh those it's weird so how about consistent enforcement here sure have a silent disc now all right I like that you know new technology keep that going consistent enforcement code law enforcement should it be one or the other anybody want to talk about that before I talk about it let the do he cares so because it's in our village code Code Enforcement is our code enforcement Authority um and then the sheriff's office is sort of their backup when they're not available that's how it works um Deb did you want to add anything well we did have a short discussion about that and we talked about the fact that maybe it was so short that it would have to be aired out more but maybe the law enforcement should have the ability to write a citation because most code enforcements are uh they they they have 10 days to correct it well if you have a picking on vacation rental uh in 10 days it's probably different people so uh so we were trying to think of a a shorter way of doing the enforcement and and we talked about the officer being able to write some kind of citation but then that also puts the officer at risk of being called the judge um so it would have to be aired out but that could be a way to um make it move forward a little better got I have a question for the captain you said that most of the time if you go to a vacation rental and you tell them 90% of them comply and turn the music down what happens if you have to go back the second time or a third time can you write them up or is there more enforcement that takes place then what we do is we wec it so again like I was talking earlier with the body cameras and so forth we'll document it and refer it to code enforcement we we deal with State Statute we generally try not to deal with code enforcement and there's a lot of reasons why um so let's just use some police departments a lot of police departments do code enforcement right so I respond to a domestic at your house and um now you have a illegal downstairs enclosure and I start getting involved in that maybe your spouse is not so willing to call me next time you're having a domestic so we tend to as a sheriff's office separate ourselves from code enforcement doesn't mean that we won't back them up doesn't mean that we won't refer stuff but we generally as a sheriff's office do not enforce code and that's countywide um there are a few exceptions um for instance alamada has a swim Zone um in a certain neighborhood and they have a 300t rule on being on a plane they had the 300 foot rule during mini season and all that that whole thing about diving the state and federal government will not enforce that code enforcement doesn't have the ability to have boats so we we do step up and help out in that category we do um enforce some parking code however um we generally tend to write State Statute inste of code when it comes to parking but code enforcement and law enforcement is a it's a fine line and we generally as a sheriff's office countywide do not get involved in Code Enforcement that's the issue that's one of the reasons why we refer and get all the evidence we can get for code enforcement and testify for them if we need to but we generally don't write code violations so you can't actually force them to turn down well there's there's some State statutes we can start tweaking for um breach of peace and all that it takes a lot Ian it's not like I can just go there the first time and take somebody out in handcuffs you also have a lot of when you're talking about residential property there's a lot of um there's a lot of rights that the person in the house has that I don't have the right just to I'll I mean I'll if I come to your house for any anything like let's just say a noise complaint it's it's not a violation of State Statute so to speak at the time and I don't have the right so if you tell me to leave your property as a law enforcement also have to leave your property I don't have the right to trespass just like anybody else doesn't have the right to trespass there has to be um circumstances that give me the right to enter that property and then that that runs onto you know the uh the curtilage the outside then when I run to run into if I have to go into a a residence it's a whole another set of circumstances that I have to have so it's not just easy for me to walk up and people are allowed to tell me to beat it I mean that it doesn't give me any there's no exceptions especially when it comes to civil infractions um I don't have the right to force people on certain things now again if it continues and there's stuff that we can do to make it a criminal case but it's a misdemeanor case again I I walk up to your door now I'm going to arrest you knock on your door for a miser you say no I'm not opening the door I don't don't have the right to kick your dooring so there's a lot of there's a lot of things that that take place for us to be able to doesn't mean I can't get a warrant come back for you in a week but but there's there's a lot of there's a whole lot of other circumstances involved with with law enforcement getting involved with stuff for civil infractions I guess it's the best way to explain it I think we have a question on the front yep there's actually a really way to solve this there are two devices that will not only monitor sound inside a house but if someone is smoking and one thing a vacation rental owner knows you don't want anyone smoking in your home and you don't want parties going on I don't know if any vacation rental owner will not spend 150 bucks in a device to put in the house and then if it gets to a certain decibel level if it gets you know sustained level it'll go off it texts to the owner you won't get called you won't get called the owner calls the guest and says turn that crap off or we're booting you because we have that in our rental agreement we can remove You for Smoking and for for noise and if they're smoking they're out this is just should be put strictly on the homeowne is to solve all your problems I've been doing vacation rent for 12 years I have courses on it they can just reach out to me I'll I'll tell you how to do it real quickly and easily solve this problem real nip it in the bud okay are we missing any information have we looked at other Island communities what are they doing I do know that we did do some research on other communities a couple years ago um we do have that information so as we move forward in this process if we're going to make some recommendations we will obviously look at those uh communities as well but does anyone want to add anything to that actually I want to ask you what did you look at I'm curious I'm gonna let Jamie answer well I'm gonna let Jamie answer that question because she off the top of my head right now I don't have new smina Marathon Key West um Marco Island um Ocean Reef there was like eight or 10 those are just the ones off the top of my head prorm what do you mean pre-storm their ordinances we just pulled their ordinances I don't didn't get into when they were written but we just pulled their ordinances and it's in a spreadsheet it has each of the I mean it's I think we can get it to you guys I think what we require to was not what their ordinates were but how effective they've been yeah I don't know if we're going to spend the time calling everybody we haven't we haven't done that yet no we haven't done that I think that's what it boils down to is obviously every place has every place has their own rules and policies in place but how effective have areas that are similar to our area been in implementing those is what it would come down to well one of those places that they discussed was Marathon so I mean Marathon so I mean what was it like before the re came out and what was it like after do we know well we don't know how long the ordinances were there I mean so you know a lot of people's codes were written just like ours many many moons ago but long yeah well Monroe County I think most of them adopted all the way down I mean like it was Monroe County so if they made any changes we could you could look and see when the ordinance was changed in their code but we didn't get into that much detail so huh okay there might there might be some TW yeah generally same process some of them had decb and some of them didn't so hey it's working a marathon in here so it must work why change it sorry it's true okay but we do have that information that we can get out to you guys what we did previously and then we can add to it if you guys want to want us to add to it hey measurable within property lines by Place start and stop times anyone want to tackle that [Music] one that one was off what uh you have to be careful careful if you're measuring within property lines because some houses have now been built as close as 5 foot to the property line so you have to be careful where you take your measurement and uh if you're measuring the decibel readings I think that the the group um just was acknowledging the sort of the the unique and halfhazard nature of our zoning where we have commercial and residential buting up against each other and it's and I think we've referred to it as well like there might be you know this might deal with certain neighborhoods we might deal with certain neighborhoods or properties differently um it might be hard to make a blanket rules anyone else on that one oh I just sorry so I think she just jumped to acknowledgement of Hazard zoning anyone else want to jump on that one before we move on okay great did you want to oh is there anything that was on your paper that I'm sorry Jennifer it's just I gave them all back their papers so so if there's anything on your paper that didn't get talked about that you want to mention let us know we can mention it quickly oh okay perfect so next step so this was great I think this was a great session we got a lot of great information the purpose of tonight like I said at the beginning was to get feedback from the community to get get a lot of information now staff is going to go back and take that information and review all the data that we got review you know all of your input and your suggestions and how that might influence any potential recommendations that we would make to the council for changes to the noise ordinance that's not to say that there definitely will be or that there won't be it's just this is how we collect the data right so uh moving forward uh we may or may not propose inform uh amendments to the ordinance um any mment would go through the Village Council in a public hearing process um there may also be future workshops on noise if we get back and we see all this data and we decide you know look we need some more information we didn't get quite enough or we need some more clarification we may do another one of these in the future just to see where people stand on certain things or maybe more focal focal focalizing on certain topics so we might do that as well so that's why it's important to sign in for for us please at the sign-in table so that we have your contact information we can keep you informed of what's happening with next steps here um and then we'll stay informed also want to remind you on one of your index cards in front of you if you want to jot down any other topics for workshops um and you can leave them um either on the table or with one of Staff um we'd be happy to look at whatever you want us to talk about you know I like doing workshops it's one of my things so I'll happy to do more of these you know as many as you guys want to do we'll do them so that's where we're at um does anybody have any final questions or anything before we move on Mr Horton first Don please I just wanted to thank you for this it's been a long time since we've had a community meeting and thank you for mrme do you have anything I was piggybacking on the same thing it's so nice to have a discussion that everybody can get involved and I know we've been in the past January we were supposed to have one about the baseball field there's been a lot of them that have been supposed to come up so I guess you know I'm glad that it's came about tonight and I hope that everybody gets the idea whether it's you that call their workshops or whether it's council members that they are indeed a very good step to get the community more involved and to get the IDE so thanks again for us here no thank you all for participating extra see food gets SE butts in the seats so there you go but no thank you all for participating we couldn't do it without you all and all your input so I really appreciate all your participation any last words or comments this was a lot more enjoyable perfect thank you have a good night drive safe --------- okay everybody we're going to get started now thank you thank you all for coming for those of you who don't know my name is Jennifer dor and I'm the planning director here at the Village of Isa marada I'd like to thank you all for coming to our noise ordinance Workshop this is the first and what I hope to be several workshops on planning related topics in the future I'd also like to just take a moment to introduce planning staff that are here this evening we have Regine Charles Bower who Bowser who you might have gotten um some emails from or some agendas from we have Heidi Harum we have Daniel parabo and we have Jamie Terry over here so that's our planning staff we also have Anita mxo on our planning staff but she was unable to make it this evening so I just wanted to welcome you all and introduce the staff uh if you haven't already I'd ask you to sign in in our signin sheet um that's way we can keep track of who's here this evening and you can also be informed of future workshops and next steps for this evening um in front of you tonight you have two note cards um one of those you can use to jot down questions during our presentation so when we get to the Q&A the general Q&A you can organize your thoughts or you know not sort of all over the place and then the second one we'd just like you to use for any future Workshop ideas that you might have for the planning department any planning topics that you might have whether it be you know let's look at transfer of velopment rights let's talk about you know habit tag classifications anything like that any ideas that you might have we're looking for your input because we want this to work for you as the community so please use that you know if you don't have any ideas that's fine too but we'd like to see what your ideas are so let me get going oops I I always do this wrong oh did I shut it off oh which there we go so this is just a brief agenda so again we just did the welcome and introduction the we're going to go through a brief presentation tonight then we're going to have a general Q&A about the presentation and then we're doing something a little different tonight than I think you've done here before in Island marada I'm relatively new for those of you that don't know I've only been here just over a year I have about almost 30 years of planning experience in Massachusetts and where I do Workshop when I did workshops in Massachusetts this is how we sort of set things up right we have Roundtable discussions we get a variety of ideas together and we talk about the issues and we come back to the larger group and present a good thoughtful discussion so that's what I'm hoping we get through tonight and then we're going to take a short break so we can compile some of your thoughts we're we have some food for you that we're going to put out in a little bit um you can have take part in that in the at during the break and then we're going to report back to the group from the round table have a final Q&A and go over next steps so that's where we're going to that's what our process is this evening um obviously people's schedules are tight I'm I'm aiming for this to be of a couple hours but if you have to leave for whatever reason I totally understand and you know we hope that you get out of it whatever you can get out of it and reach out to us if you have questions you know after the fact we're always here to answer your questions so I'm going to get started with our presentation so what is a noise ordinance a noise ordinance is just a local law that sets limits on the noise levels that we allow you know during specific times um or areas of the Village um the goal is to maintain the peaceful environment by addressing excessive noise um that may cause a disturbance The Village's noise ordinance is article 18 in our village code and it provides for certain specifications and the purpose of the ordinance The Village's noise ordinance is to and this is quoted exactly from the code provide an efficient procedure for the prohib prohibition of excessive Ive unnecessary or unnaturally loud noises within the unincorp within the Incorporated areas of the village it's important is that it regulates loud noise to protect public health safety and Welfare within the village limits go ahead some of the key provisions of our village noise ordinance is chapter 18 section 18- 63 is the general prohibition which says that no person shall by any method or device make continue or cause to be made or continued any noise disturbance within the village except as Allowed by this article and then it goes on to have Provisions about unmuffled exhaust multif family dwellings pagers public address systems and telephones we do have some exemptions in our code um for emergency situations which includes emergency alarms emergency maintenance um emergency work by public employees um public in property including School athletic facilities and Village owned property like Founders Park that is all Exempted from the noise ordinance um aircraft in conjunction with an approved use and Zoning so at tavano there's no U noise ordinance if aircraft is coming into land there um construction activity is allowed between 7:00 a.m. and Sundown and lawn and garden maintenance and Machinery is allowed between 7:00 a.m. and Sundown I'm sorry construction is 7:30 and Sund to sundown outdoor bands Amplified music and entertainers on all approved commercial properties between 10:00 a.m. and 700 p.m. I'm sorry 7 a.m. and 1000 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 7:00 a.m. through 11 p.m. Friday and Saturday so that's approved commercial properties in a commercial District how do we we measure the noise that's the question we get a lot per the village code our noise is measured by ordinary auditory senses of a reasonable person with normal sensitivities without the assistance of a mechanical device so they can't have a hearing aid they can't have any mechanical device assisting assisting their hearing of the noise and the measurement should be taken not less than 50 ft from The Sound Source another option that some people have mentioned and we prior to this you know we did say that you could provide written comments in advance of this meeting we did receive a lot of comments and a lot of people have suggested or asked about um decibel meters so another op option would be to establish decibel levels for different types of noise in different areas and use a decibel meter for measurement that is another option enforcement procedures so in the Village currently we enforce our code through their Code Compliance Department in the village or the Monroe County Sheriff's office so if you have a complaint about noise you would start with the village Code Compliance Department obviously if it's after hours you could call the sheriff's office and they would come out and and take a look for you so that's the basic presentation on what our nor ordinance is and what A noise ordinance is so are there any general Q&A Q&A questions about about our noise ordinance or noise ordinances in general we have a mic I'm going to have someone grab it for you just give me one sec just so everybody can hear your [Laughter] question thank you uh Mark manini um many business owners who are here and other people who um are kind of the left brain type deal with numbers and before we can even do meters and figure out what's an appropriate level you first have to have a baseline And the reason why I say that is because let's look at your body temperature how do you know if you have a fever well it's over 98.6 where did we get the 98.6 from we get 100 orifices hopefully we got 100 thermometers or clean one off we got an average right and that 98.6 is what is considered normal anything above that is a fever I say that because I could be at the end of my property by my pool have this on 10:00 at night nothing going on and it's 55 to 60 DB that's just wind ocean noise 55 to 60 DB I could walk out to Old Highway and be in front of my property now that moves to 65 to 70 DB 10 o'clock at night I go out to Overseas Highway 10 o00 at night not when it's real busy commercial traffic it's 75 to 85 DB without having a BAS line of different areas of what is considered normal to put in a decimal limit you have to have first the Baseline you can't just say anything over 60 DB is not appropriate when there could be no sound happening and it's already over 65 because of ambient noise that happens in the background with cars with wind and so forth so the biggest concern for me is again I'm a numbers guy and I want to know I'll be fully compliant with any law I just need to know where I need to be and I'll be there so when we have a wedding at our property and I walk out in the street and I do a decel reading it is strictly within ordinances the police we hire at the weddings they're there they're always saying everything's great there's no it's not loud so I guess my concern is is it going to be subjective like that and then 50 ft from a source if you've got three acres and that loud source is in a small area but everyone else around there because if I do deciel readings on my property I stay within even 75 DB being at the corner of my lot and that's probably 200 feet from The Sound Source um but again that's over at the corner of the property by the ocean and there's no one on that side now what sound does travel across water I get that and so I'm going to work on seeing if I can come to his house this weekend and do a measurement uh but uh from the road we don't hear anything and so that's the only thing I really have to concern myself with because we've been a wedding venue for the last 15 years and going back to I think around 2007 Judy if correct um I know the TDC and the Chamber really tried to push for Destination weddings in the town and I think Ken Strobel uh was one of the lawyers uh here who was on that board uh he was on the board of the chamber I believe in 2007 and uh the TDC both advocated for destination weddings to get more Revenue into the town get jobs for people who need it here and we're more than willing to abide by any and every law in place just give us a number and we'll fit it great thank you anybody else have any questions about the don't turn it off it makes a cracking noise I guess Joe wishire Plantation key one thing that I noticed on here that's not being addressed is a lot of the vacation rentals the short-term rentals I know in my neighborhood there's a house that has 10 or 12 people all the time and it just gets all they just come down here to party every night that's what they come down for and I remember in the past that uh an officer got up in one of the village meetings said he got called to one of these but they wouldn't let him in there was really not much they could do so I wish that something could be put in there specifically regarding some of these short-term rentals perfect thank you anyone else have anything uh Craig McBay Plantation key um as we're starting to go through this process question I do have is do you have any sorts of stats as far as complaints you've had through Code Compliance or Sheriff's Office like hey these are the sorts of problems that we're seeing so let's you know what sort of solution because I know every neighborhood every business there's all kinds of different problems from different people but it's not the same problems everywhere so do you guys have any kind of information to say okay this is the problems that we're seeing these are the complaints we're getting I don't have that information this evening but I do have the ability to to print that information we track all of our complaints through our City View uh permitting process so I can certainly get that information out to you know everybody who signed up and put that on the list um I do know that you know back when you know I first started and this became a Hot Topic I did ask the code Department if they were seeing a lot of complaints and the answer was no at that time time but that was you know eight nine months ago so I don't know what's happened since then but I certainly can can get those numbers out to you okay and now one of the other um I guess sort of question or comments um so deal meters they've come up over the years time and time again so uh Sheriff's Office I enforcement in how you know before we get too far down the road to say all right let's do this how easy I'm not trying to put you on spot or anything but that's probably needs to be something that needs to be addressed is if we put this in place how easy is it to actually enforce and is it something that will stand up through Code Compliance or through Sheriff's uh sheriff's office so it's I guess that's the question I don't want to speak for the captain but I will say that obviously we wouldn't put propose anything in any new ordinance that couldn't be enforced or couldn't be held up to a legal Challenge and we would work with our village attorney before we brought it forward to the council um we would get the input of the sheriff's department regarding their concerns as well so we would take those steps okay yeah I just obviously don't want us to get all the way down the road and say no we can't do that right that's that's all all right thank you anybody else Ken Phillipson Isa Mora uh what's unique tonight is that he draws number two I draw number two and I filed a complaint against him uh and my complaint was this uh his property is Zone residential and yet he has many commercial activities going on in that property with a noise level that's very disturbing I've lived there 35 years and for most of that time I didn't have a problem anyway what's unique is that being able to sit down and discuss this with Mark I think we'll be able to resolve our differences I can't fix a zoning problem but he can fix that on his own thank you see one good [Laughter] thing hi Sandy bigly I'm a full-time resident I have two questions one under Section 1867 exemptions letter J it says there can be outdoor bands on approved commercial properties and I was just wondering my question is is it also allowed in residential properties because in our neighborhood we also deal with bands and DJs but I don't see where it's allowed so it's approved commercial property so it would be if they were approved for commercial use I think what you're referring to is vacation Reynolds that then offer a wedding or no or just well maybe and or people who just have a big party and they hire a band and a DJ and then hundreds of homes have to listen to that music for hours so I don't I don't see where on here that's Exempted so they would have to follow the noise ORS and my last question is um cottage industry permits I don't see anything about and I'll give you an example people in residential lots for I I'll give you a real example somebody operating a sawmill seven or eight hours a day in their yard 5 days a week sounds very commercial to me but so are there per for cottage industry that make noise thank you I'll look into that thank you I I just wanted to follow up on something Craig said and I wanted to see if I could put uh Captain Paul on the spot for just a little bit he and I have talked about the enforcement side of this before and I think that's you know that's something you should hear about first before you go dreaming up ways to control this so Captain if you wouldn't mind we spoke about Amplified music and I think uh construction and Lawn Equipment before and then tell them the pros and cons of a decible meter so I'll start with a decimal meter first that's what the ordinance used to read countywide um I think if don't quote me on this it was like 300 DB for three minute three consecutive minutes or something like that the first issue that we found with that years ago was um even a live band doesn't really stay at 300 for 3 minutes consecutively um so every time and I'll use the old F full moon parties as an example we responded to that constantly about the junkeroo band that would start up and we would sit outside with the uh deso meter and with the timer and then at 2 minutes and 30 seconds it would stop for a second the decimal meter would go to zero then it would start again so the timer starts get at three 3 minutes that was one issue another issue um Turned more into a um something to do with I don't I don't think it was ever set in case law but there is an issue with um the calibration of the decimal meters keeping them calibrated how do we prove that they're reading properly um as law enforcement we have with with our breathalyzer machines we have to get them calibrated L with um our Radars we have to get them calibrated um uh twice annually same with our lasers every piece of equipment we use is is um calibrated constantly um we didn't have the means to get the U dust meters calibrated number one number two um uh that was you know a big issue in the past so currently the way the the Ordinance Works with the with with respects to um the village of R marada we pretty much do it the same way in the whole County because it's gone through our legal department but what happens is is um specifically after hours when code enforcement is not available we'll respond to um let's just let's I I'll use the vacation rental um we respond to them um quite often and what we do is we document The Noise by Body camera and by mostly by Body camera we have the Deputy stand um more than 50 ft from the property and we'll we'll record it on body camera we'll make contact with who's responsible for the property we will um explain the ordinance to them explain they need to turn the music down and um what we will do is we will do what we call a field contact card and we will forward that to Code Compliance and Code Compliance if they if it ever turns into an issue where it goes to a code hearing the officer will be available just like any other um court appearance we will make sure the officer is available to go and testify to the body camera uh I will tell you that in my experience um 90% of the times we get compliance for first time most people turn it down most um and that's um you know generally speaking most people just they don't want to deal with it um there I know that there's um uh when it comes to businesses and so forth um we we will people call it could be 2 o'clock in the afternoon we will still make contact with the business and ask them to turn it down if it's too loud we'll just say hey neighbors are complaining we know you're exempt but can you turn it down a little bit and 99% of the time we get compliance um excuse me so um same with Lawn Equipment you know and there's there's two fold with the lawn equipment I mean number one you want your neighbors taking care of the property you don't want it to look like um you know driving down the road with weeds growing up but um generally speaking we don't normally get an issue before the times or that they're required or that they're allowed um but when we do we we we do address that too and lot of equipment is the same issue really doesn't usually fit under the if you would go with the with the deal reader which I don't you know it doesn't fall to that 300 deel and I just keep throwing that out cuz it used to be but um you know there's a lot of um noise has been an issue in this County for I mean I've worked in every I worked in Marathon I worked in kilargo this is nothing new this is an issue that we've had in this County especially now with um um a lot more vacation rentals and um generally speaking that is that is mostly our violators um especially on weekends um we have certain subdivisions I won't mention them you guys know where they are that we're constantly and they're dealing with noise and one of the one of the issues um noise the noise ordinance doesn't really apply to a residence there's no exemptions to a residence so at 12:00 in the afternoon if it's too loud it's too loud and we'll address it and we will record it and we will forward it if need be um you know and we don't generally and I don't I don't have the numbers but we generally don't get too many complaints on businesses now days but when we do we we will address you know we we'll meet with a manager or meet with a band or a DJ and ask them to turn it down anything else could you just give me one quick example what is 300 what would that be it's pretty loud but um I yeah you know you're asking the wrong guy you know um it it was pretty loud um I can tell you I know if anybody's been around I know a lot of people been around since the old days with the with the full moon part parties that junkeroo band was 350 maybe at the highway so I I you know it just uh it and it constantly fluctuates that's another issue with music especially Amplified music so thank you Captain thanks Captain I don't know I guess I'll weigh in I as as somebody who used to hear the complaint at the county and here at the Village when I ran code enforcement and the building department who are you oh I'm sorry I'm I'm Don Horton I thought everybody knew me you probably do but who doesn't know me here anyway I'm Don Horton and and I of course a retire building official for Al rod and ran the code enforcement and uh from the county as well I was their building official and and and the complaints when I when I worked at the county um it it was done by decel meters uh of course I left the county in 2000 and and here in Isam from 2000 to 2005 and and this is a this is just a reoccurring discussion that this community has we have always had this same ordinance changed a little bit times have changed a little bit days have changed a little bit but we're I feel like we're going to continue to have this conversation until we have something that's measurable um what's noisy to me uh may not be noisy to you uh what bothers me even as a u a you know an ordinary person with ordinary although I wear hearing aids auditory senses um and maybe that's because of too many years of listening to loud rock and roll I don't know but um but unless it's measurable I don't just don't know how anybody can constantly take a complaint and and nowadays with the technology that we have um I know that it's used in Fort Lauderdale it's used in in in areas of Miami where they've got the the inter Coastal Waterway and they've got businesses on one side and residents on the other and there's a lot of businesses that with their noise in ordinance that um they actually have monitors or sensors on their property line and if the Amplified music is too loud Those sensors automatically turn those amplifiers down and and so it helps the surrounding Neighbors at the same time it helps the businesses um so that they don't have to constantly take complaints these these uh meters actually monitor what's going on at the property the complaints are or the codes are always written where it's outside of of of the property so it has to be in the public way or in the neighbors you know if it complains so um you know what bothers me is not necessarily what's going to bother you so I I think that we need to figure out a way to uh find find a way to meter those it it be be like me driving down the highway at at 40 and and Captain saying done it I felt like you were doing 45 you know and I'm going no C I was only doing 40 but it looked like you were doing 45 but so how we you know how would we prove that right um of of course he's trained it how fast the car is and how fast it goes and and I'm not so I'm going to be driving thinking I'm doing 40 but I might be doing 45 so I think we need to go with something that's measurable or we're going to continue to have this discussion year after year or every fourth year or something I know we had it twice when Deb was on Council and we're we're having it again so that's just my thought I think Judy you still have a comment Judy had a comment down and then I just want to have a brief comment about vacation Reynolds I have a brief comment about vacation Reynolds great good wor she's nervous all right my comment is really just a suggestion when we've done this before Dave Vader has always been in the room and he's the head of Isam marada Community entertainment he can talk um the decb with us all day long you know this ban is brings it up to this level and this band is softer so my suggestion is let's I reached out to him but let's make sure that he's in the conversation because he truly is an expert and then when we talk residential if we were in around this room everyone would have a different thing it could be someone restoring an antique car which will shake the glass out of your house or you know it could be a boat going down the canal it's very different for everyone in the room and so um I think we have to keep that in mind too it's not just music right thank you Russ had something too he wanted I'll just make it quick um Jennifer thank you for holding this meeting I'm really really inspired by this um Gathering of of lots of different people from lots of different places and um I look forward to this civilized discussion so thank you this going to be the last one that we're going to move on to our fun part uh Russell jel I actually represent the landowner that is next to Mr Mancini's wedding venue um so a couple things I agree with Don Horton you must have an objective standard uh the county actually has both it has a subjective standard and it has a 75 DB I think is what the county has um you know I heard about this ordinary reasonable person 30 years ago in law school I've been trying to find him ever since okay um it is just too subjective of a standard um I suspect that if you would have looked at the success rate of your numbers you would probably that would be borne out by that uh so you know I think the other thing is that most of the time and I think it is Amplified music that is the problem um yes there are other sources most of those are temporary but it's usually Amplified and and the problem my client has with Mr Mancini is that though we call it a vacation rental those are Residential Properties okay and they're effectively being turned into commercial venues and so even you know it's kind of an expectation analysis when you live next to an airport you kind of expect to have a little more noise when you live next to a golf course you expect to have a golf ball in your yard so you know part of it I think is that you know people move into a residential neighborhood they expect the normal noise associated with a residential neighborhood they don't expect it to turn into a commercial venue and and so that's something that needs to be addressed is the type of the zoning or the flum and to say it shouldn't just be necessarily one number that we apply across the board maybe those expectations change based B upon if you're next to a commercial venue or if you're in a residential area so I'm Deb Gillis and yes I sat on Council and yes I think it was at least twice that we had this discussion and I was just going to bring up the fact that we had um it was actually a business but it could apply to Vacation Rentals or any other noise venue uh one that did not want to come into compliance and they finally came into compliance and they put up um noise baffles I'll call them I don't know exact terms that they did but it it resolved the problem because we went and we negotiated I guess with that that person and to make the noise stop and that was part of the problem was it was across the water we are a water Community we're going to have that problem so we put icing glass on one more in the back back the the gentleman in the blue shirt and then we're going to move on to the round table I'm Mike Wilkinson of L Island marada um this I'm kind of going to piggyback off you sir and it does have to be subjective and it is primarily pertaining to music as we all know um but for an establishment like lur where the residential is really far spread out whether it be across the water or inside of the neighborhood in uh off of madira our music doesn't affect anyone so like you said it does have to be subjected it can't be a certain decimal amount that's applied across the village because it's some areas are going to be louder than others when it pertains to residential our music never goes past 10:00 anyway so I don't really think it's going to be that big of an issue I know we're trying to do earlier than that but it does like you said have to be subjective sir because of the area thank you okay so that was all great stuff but we're going to move on now to the round table discussion and breakout session so what I'd like everybody to do is at your table um choose one person at your table it can be the staff person if you have a staff person at your table or if you don't it can be one of you to be the Scribe um to take notes for the table I just want you all to have like an honest discussion with each other about what are the noise issues in the community what are you seeing what are you hearing ha um sorry I had to do it um and what do you think we changes we could make how could we make it better and then we're going to do that for about a half an hour and then for about 15 minutes I want you to look at that list and come up with the top three or four for your table and highlight those for us and then during the break we're going to put those top three or four together for each table and we're going to come back and have a larger discussion so that's where we are right now and I just want everybody to have a chance to speak because I know some people don't like to speak on the mic in front of a larger group so I thought this was a good setting to do that so have at it good luck okay we're going to get back to the report back now everybody wants to take a seat you can continue to eat we have a ton of food left and I'm not taking it home so we're going to get back now gonna thanks whoever's doing that [Music] Jamie um you can continue to eat while we do our report back the food's going to stay out we have plenty of food so help yourselves um right now we're just going to do some report out of what happened in your discussion groups um Jamie took your you know top three or four she there were some obviously probably some crossover amongst the groups so she Consolidated and she you know typed them into the report for us here so we're going to go through and what i' do like to do is ask if somebody from one of the tables who had one of these issues maybe like explain a little bit about uh what they're what they're referring to or what their suggestion is or what if they want to elaborate a little bit more on it so we're going to need the mic again Jamie so so the first first one is vacation rentals enforcement fines and how many so does anybody want to tackle that for us what were you guys talking about how many violations do we oh how many violations okay does anybody want to tackle that from any one of the tables I know we uh discussed that a little bit um just like you know we I've got a vacation R myself you know what I mean it's again it's above our bar so we don't complain too much but we know how much of an issue vacation rentals are throughout the community and how much money they bring in for the owners so if their tenants customers or whatever you want to call them are being noisy maybe that could help them police themselves to keep the noise down if they know if they're too noisy they could lose their license that's going to be a big deal for the owners to try to again you know just regulate themselves I think through a lot of these different things the more self-regulation you can do the better as opposed to trying to mandate things but um so that just might help that you know put put some of it on the owners to keep their uh their tenants in check and as far as how many violations was that just like keep track of how many violations or did anybody have oh did you want to answer that was noise well when it came down to is if you get a certain number of violations then you pull their license or a lot there are so many illegal vacation rentals too that if there's you know a number of noise complaints to be double checking and investigate to find out if they are illegal vacation rentals that could all kind of tie into the same thing perfect thank you does anybody else want to talk about this topic before we move to the next one yes what we talked about was the enforcement of the vacation rentals but then how many times can a vacation rental have an event uh well and what is very ironic is that that these two lovely gentlemen have you know neighboring properties and so what we were talking about is so if if one person is using their house as a vacation rental and then the neighbor does and and then you have this ongoing um you know like competing weddings what does that look like that like that's the scenario we're creating when we don't kind of set some limitations on on what can happen in the vacation rental which which again is hypothetical but I mean you not really you could start your vacation rental business tomorrow with your wedding venue tomorrow so it's very puzzling interesting great but but it suggests that there should be some formal procedure around how we regulate it right okay so the next one is bands and orientation or location of the stage for bands to minimize noise educate about noise ordinance and have them sign an understanding who wants to have that it looks like somebody has the mic already hi uh I'm Lissa I work here um so this was yes there uh this was kind of tied in with the next one as well but um as an operator I had to learn the hard way when I was in the way of my surrounding neighbors and sometimes when we disagreed about what was reasonable um but I think there are a lot of things that you can do as someone mentioned um you know if Dave fader knows a lot about sound when it comes to live music to provide resources to operators to help them not have to learn the hard way so uh at the location that has been talked about a lot in this room that we are planning from the beginning The Sound Engineering was a big part of the conversation how do we mitigate our sound creation based on size of speakers placement of speakers placement of the music um you know technology um that you can use to lower zones or whatever um it's a lot easier to do in the planning stage than when you're thinking about it two years later after you've had a lot of noise complaints um so it was the idea was in the planning stage education and information for operators who want to be good neighbors or want to be better Neighbors um to know what to do best practices that's a great suggestion thanks anyone else want to tackle this one good okay the next one is surround sound speaker size same thing okay perfect Amplified music and residentially zoned properties who wants to take that one anyone someone had it on their [Laughter] sheet i i in some I think it's redundant of the other ones that the vacation rentals as I understand the code generally fall in residential areas so yes they do you know and then we've had the discussion about the wedding venues but the the fundamental problem seems to be most everybody's raising is whether it's residential and whether it's a vacation rental or not your neighbor you know should be respectful as well and so it's really we think focused more generally speaking your complaints are loud music in residential neighborhoods whether it's a vacation rental or or not that seems to be the primary area of concern is that right ladies yes exactly okay word for word look at that that's why he's the [Laughter] lawyer and a quick point to make you know since we everyone's talking about our area and my property you know there's two Residential Properties that a butt to a commercial hotel and there is always kids yelling there's always music playing there's fireworks going off and you know so yes we're residential we're Zone residential we have a commercial we have a a licens to do vacation rentals which allows us to do Commerce rent out the property and allows for events without having to be a commercial property so the residential portion of it falls underneath the short-term rentals but again the the the Zone residential there are places where you have I don't know why there is a hotel in between a dozen homes don't know how that happened but it did and a buffer zone is a short-term rental before there's residential because you can't just go put houses next to it and expect it to be quiet when you're next to a hotel great anyone else on that one oh down here in the front Okay we get it right okay uh we also listed Amplified music and residential Zone properties such as hiring aand and DJ and um apparently it's not covered in the exemptions as you had mentioned before and that's that's why we listed it does that cover it I think you mean like for a private party or no that's a different okay pardon me you mean like for a private party or a private party that's held outside that has a DJ and loud music okay perfect great thank you okay the next one would be previous noise ordinance had proposed proposed had times days regulated Sundays and holidays why not adopt it maybe somebody who's been here longer than me can answer that question the Sundays and the holidays we have all sorts of activities going on from um lawn maintenance leaf blowers uh hedge Trippers trimmers con construction uh they come in they even stay during the night with tile saws they'll run outside cut the tile then come back in and lay the tile um it just doesn't stop and now with so many of these beautiful homes having outdoor kitchens large TVs and they want to come home from church only to the sound of all the construction or whatever is going on and it's it's a shame because that's part of our you know part of your mission is to give us quiet peaceful enjoyment and you know I can give you one example and I think I even sent it into the village it went on on a Sunday and it was a beautiful day you could open your windows and they had a lift that was painting a house and every 5T up 5T down five 5 ft over 5T to the left beep beep beep it went on all day long all day long on a Sunday and you you had to go in you had to be in your house okay so I would like to see some regulation to the times on Sundays and holidays okay I think it's only fair so thank you does anybody else want to address that it looks like there's people that might want to talk to that and that was on the residential side just like you know more for the contractors and landscapers and stuff like that not so much for you know yeah I use my lift all the time who Mark oh who I was the only reason I was saying is because you were on Council last time we brought it up so they were asking why it wasn't adop get Mark to adust running for reelection I I'm not speaking about that right now so I I by way of History the way I remember things a couple of years ago we had discussions and meetings and maybe a workshop about this and there was there was two sides to the coin so as you see on the wall there's the resident right of quiet enjoyment and you know in this part of the country Sunday Morning has generally been a quiet time and some people attend a house of worship and observe that as a quiet day other people use it as their off day to catch up on household chores and duties and Contra contractors build so um there was the balance between the right of Qui enjoyment and um someone's right to earn a living and we tried things we we discussed well maybe you know you don't start working Sunday till afternoon or Saturday you know Less hours than on the weekday and we just really couldn't come to um a good balance that everybody could Embrace and so I was hopeful that that might come back up again tonight uh but you know it's it's complicated I'll say that and it's difficult because folks have to earn a living and folks have a right to be quiet and and enjoy the quiet in their own home so how do we do that I was hoping you all could answer that cuz we couldn't do it so if if I hope that answered your questions we we never could get it to a point we vote maybe Deb remembers can I can I throw her under the bus now yeah I was sitting on LPA trying to come up with that answer for you um we we made some suggestions and through it to council to to find out and yes we tried to make some some inroads as to the quiet enjoyment plus the people that are have the second and third jobs of trying to make a living so that they can stay here and yeah one of the things was to back it off a little bit on the weekends but not to void weekends we could pull that back up and look at it um the LPA worked very hard at coming up with an idea on that and it just didn't go anywhere at the time I I was going to also add the the amphi music in residential zoning districts um we we you did a great job for us talking about you did but we we were talking about the the fact that it's not necessarily a particular event that's going on it's somebody that's um come down for the weekend they they they really have it's a second home for them and they've come down for the weekend to enjoy the the surroundings and maybe not even the weekend maybe through the week they've come down and and they throw their own party it's it's not a a big Affair but they're noisy and Loud because they're enjoying themselves and but they needs to be uh maybe not the same limits on time and restrictions as we have on commercial but something applied to residential as well yes thank you thank you anyone else on that someone in the back Jamie the back yeah Craig LM back I don't see really where the city should be making a thing about this Sunday stuff most contractors I born and raised here I do work seven days a week five or six days a week I have to survive Sundays after church I do mow my lawn and I'm sorry okay but if you're a neighbor why don't we get back to knowing each other call the neighbor say hey I'm trying to sleep here I'm trying to do this you know how many times they come over when I'm jackhammering a pool on a Sunday guy goes hey I got friends in town do you mind hell no let me get off the machine I'm ready to go home but just let's try to you know don't make so many more laws for God's sakes we got enough thank you all right on the ne on the next one is leave the same question mark did stop start time okay earlier would be problematic to businesses I'm guessing you have something to say I might um we were discussing that adamantly over here and that's that if everyone has been abiding by the rules that have been set forth for such a long duration of time why modify them to appease just a few and disturb the mass it just it doesn't make any sense to me personally and I I believe most of the people at this table were in agreement to that and 10:00 is not an absurd time it's not terribly late it's not 11:00 and that's just that hour difference as well but 9:00 would be detrimental such to as a business as myself or Isam R A Fish Company where we do our business around Sunset that's where a good chunk of our business comes from if I tell a ban they can't be there at 9:00 but the sunset doesn't set till 8 I'm paying a band for to leave early when everyone's still there and if if you had issues with people disregarding the time set forth like if we were constantly playing music at 11:00 or if other entities were then okay it makes sense but to to disturb the masses appease a few doesn't make any sense to me personally thank you for that anybody else want to talk about this one down the front here Jamie thank you I certainly concur with that we had many many years ago on when I was on the council we negotiated the 11:00 hour because the businesses wanted it later and so we negotiated 11:00 and I really think it needs to stay that way the last one is firework oh sorry that's okay times yeah I think well one of the reasons I asked in the beginning as far as uh code uh enforcement you know questions is again if it's not broke don't fix it so to speak so that's why I was wondering how much of a problem is it I know I'm not going to say it's not a problem you know different areas are different problems um but again if it's not a big massive problem Village Wide then why should we fix it and something we talked about at our table is working area by area um you know working with your neighbors hey what's the problem how can we solve this so you know businesses can operate residents can enjoy their their life and try to coexist you know our Islands not getting bigger we're not getting more space you know obviously we got to figure out how to uh how to survive together I know it's kind of a little kumay aish maybe too too much but um it would be nice if something like that could happen thank you the last one is firework regulations um anyone to talk about this I was just informed by the captain that fireworks oh there is oh I'm sorry not the last one oh I thought we were done almost um the last one on this slide I was informed by Captain Paul that fireworks are regulated by the state um so we don't have a lot really to say about it but does anybody wants to talk about firework regulations that be happy to chat quickly they they say they believe you have to have a local license to do fireworks so State Statute now Governor D Sanz put in that on certain nights on 4th of July um the uh New Year's and I believe New Year's Day they are now legal to fire off fireworks so now during the rest of the year the rest of the time you're absolutely correct if somebody have to have a permit to do such because they are illegal the rest of the time but there's been a lot of leniency given to fireworks since uh guess the last couple years I'm not sure exactly what the state statute says any because I really haven't paid much attention to it but I do know that they he's he's given some leniency towards it used to be illegal no matter what but now they've it is cover under State Statute now are fire you know big mortars going off and bottle rockets considered the same thing they are now they used to not be but anything that blew up or um self-propelled we were not allowed they were illegal but now the governor has uh given the clearance to all that on certain nights certain days certain days but it's but but and the village does have a a provision in the code that if um Florida Brew wants to fire fireworks off they have to have a permit or or if somebody in a wedding wants to do it they supposed to have a permit and the proper uh um person with a license prate technical license to do do such that does not apply on a on those holidays like my son lights off a Roman Candle on I said son not me yeah let the Mind do it on those certain nights are legal so I think that's what he's referring to we'll have to get more information on that thank thank you all right our next SL oh there's one more one question sorry okay so if we uh decided to put some fireworks off how long does it take to get the permit I'm not even sure who issues the permit to be honest with you the planning department doesn't issue that permit so I don't know how long that would take ask Chief able I would that's where I'd go yeah I think yeah fire department probably yeah oh good information anyone else on fireworks okay so the slide I didn't know about um recommend new technology I.E silent disco I guess we're coming over here to this table silent disco that's this I know what a silent disco is I watch a lot of Bravo they do them on Bravo we were talking more about what Lissa had said about new technology and speakers and kind of what Don said about setting up peripheral you know zones to where you can you know regulate the sound and there's I think some new sound speakers that you know create a wall of some sort so that's more and then they some people are saying after 11 o' if you really want to get into it then you can get into the silent disco and if you haven't heard of that I think it's where you wear headphones and and dance dance and look at each other kind of weird but well it makes sense to you CU you hear the music but everybody looking at you think especially the people that are like looking that don't have those on yes exactly yeah yes right but there could be like other people like serving food that are like oh those it's weird so how about consistent enforcement here sure have a silent disc now all right I like that you know new technology keep that going consistent enforcement code SL law enforcement should it be one or the other anybody want to talk about that before I talk about it the he cares so because it's in our village code Code Enforcement is our code enforcement Authority um and then the sheriff's office is sort of their backup when they're not available that's how it works um Deb did you want to add anything well we did have a short discussion about that and we talked about the fact that maybe it was so short that it would have to be aired out more but maybe the law enforcement should have the ability to write a citation because most code enforcements are uh they they they have 10 days to correct it well if you have a picking on vacation rental uh in 10 days it's probably different people so uh so we were trying to think of a a shorter way of doing the enforcement and and we talked about the officer being able to write some kind of citation but then that also puts the officer at risk of being called the judge um so it would have to be aired out but that could be a way to um make it move forward a little better I have a question for the captain you said that most of the time if you go to a vacation ryal and you tell them 90% of them comply and turn the music down what happens if you have to go back the second time or a third time can you write them up or is there more enforcement that takes place then what we do is we we docent it so again like I was talking earlier with the body cameras and so forth we'll document it and refer it to code enforcement we we deal with state statue we generally try not to deal with code enforcement and there's a lot of reasons why um so let's just use some police departments uh a lot of police departments do code enforcement right so I respond to a domestic at your house and um now you have a illegal downstairs enclosure and I start getting involved in that maybe your spouse is not so willing to call me next time you're having a domestic so so we tend to as a sheriff's office separate ourselves from code enforcement doesn't mean that we won't back them up doesn't mean that we won't refer stuff but we generally as a sheriff's office do not enforce code and that's countywide um there are a few exceptions um for instance alamada has a swim Zone um in a certain neighborhood and they have a 300t rule on being on a plane they have the 300t rule during Min season and all that that whole thing about diving the state and federal government will not enforce that code enforcement doesn't have the ability have boats so we we do step up and help out in that category we do um enforce some parking code however um we generally tend to write State Statute instead of code when it comes to parking but code enforcement and law enforcement is a it's a fine line and we generally as the Sheriff's Office countywide do not get involved in Code Enforcement that's the issue that's one of the reasons why we refer and get all the evidence we can get for code enforcement and testify for them if we need to but we generally don't write code violations so you can't actually turn down well there's there's some State statutes we can start tweaking for um breach of peace and all that it takes a lot I mean it's not like I can just go there the first time and take somebody out in handcuffs you also have a lot of when you're talking about residential property there's a lot of um there's a lot of rights that the person in the house has that I don't have the right just to I'll I mean I'll if I come to your house for any anything like let's just say a noise complaint it's it's not a violation of State Statute so to speak at the time and I don't have the right so if you tell me to leave your property as a law enforcement also have to leave your property I don't have the right to tr trespass just like anybody else doesn't have the right to trespass there has to be um circumstances that give me the right to enter that property and then that that runs onto you know the uh the curtilage the outside then when I run to run into if I have to go into a a residence it's a whole another set of circumstances that I have to have so it's not just easy for me to walk up and people are allowed to tell me to beat it I mean it doesn't give me any no exceptions especially when it comes to civil infractions um I don't have the right to force people on certain things now again if the continues and there's stuff that we can do to make it a criminal case but it's a misdemeanor case again I I walk up to your door now I'm going to arrest you knock on your door for a misdemeanor you say no I'm not opening the door I don't have the right to kick your door in so there's a lot of there's a lot a lot of things that that take place for us to be able to doesn't mean I can't get a warrant come back for you in a week but but there's there's a lot of there's a whole lot of other circumstances involved with with law enforcement getting involved with stuff for civil infractions I guess it's the best way to explain it I think we have a question on the front yep there's actually a really easy way to solve this there are two devices that will not only monitor sound inside a house but if someone is smoking and one thing a vacation rental owner knows you don't want anyone smoking in your home and you don't want parties going on I don't know if any vacation rental owner will not spend 150 bucks on a device to put in the house and then if it gets to a certain deciel level if it gets you know sustained level it'll go off it text to the owner you won't get called you won't get called the owner calls the guest and says turn that crap off or we're booting you because we have that in our rental agreement we can remove You for Smoking and for for noise and if they're smoking they're out this is just should be put strictly on the homeo will solve all your problems I've been doing vacation rentals for 12 years I have courses on it they can just reach out to me I'll I'll tell you how to do it real quickly and easily solve this problem real nip it in the bud okay are we missing any information have we looked at other Island communities what are they doing I do know that we did do some research on other communities a couple years ago um we do have that information so as we move forward in this process if we're going to make some recommendations we will obviously look at those uh communities as well but does anyone want to add anything to that actually I want to ask you what communities did you look at I'm curious I'm gonna let Jamie answer well I'm gonna let Jamie answer that question because she did off the top of my head right now I don't have new smina Marathon Key West um Marco Island um Ocean Reef there was like eight or 10 those are just the ones off the top of my head you mean pre-storm their ordinances we just pulled their ordinances I don't didn't get into when they were written but we just pulled their ordinances and it's in a spreadsheet it has each of the I mean it's we can get it to you guys I think what we requiring to was not what their ordinates were but how effective they've been [Laughter] oh yeah I don't know if we're going to spend the time calling everybody we haven't we haven't done that yet no we haven't I think that's what it boils down to is obviously every place has every place has their own rules and policies in place but how effective have areas that are similar to our area been and implementing those is what it would come down to those places that they discussed was Marathon so I mean yeah Marathon so I mean what was it like before the re came out what was it like after well we don't know how long the ordinances were there I mean some you know a lot of people's codes were written just like ours many many moons ago but long yeah well Monroe County I think most of them adopted all the way down I mean like it was Monroe County so if they made any changes we could you could look and see when the ordinance was changed in their Cod but we didn't get into that much detail huh okay there might there might be some yeah some of them had decb and some of them didn't so hey it's working a marathon in here so it must work why change it sorry it's true but we do have that information that we can get out to you guys what we did previously and then we can add to it if you guys want to want us to add to it okay measurable within property lines by Place start and stop times anyone want to tackle that one that one was what you have to be careful careful if you're measuring within property lines because some houses have now been built as close as 5 foot to the property line so you have to be careful where you take your measurement and uh if you're measuring the decibel ratings I think that the the group um just was acknowledging the sort of the the unique and halfhazard nature of our zoning where we have commercial and residential butting up against each other and it's and I think we've referred to it as well like there might be you know this might deal with certain neighborhoods we might deal with certain neighborhoods or properties differently um it might be hard to make blanket rules anyone else on that one oh I just sorry so I think she just jumped to acknowledgement of haphazard zoning anyone else want to jump on that one before we move on okay great did you want to is there anything that was on your paper that I'm sorry Jennifer it's just I gave them all back their papers so so if there's anything on your paper that didn't get talked about that you want to mention let us know we can mention it quickly no okay perfect so next step so this was great I think this was a great session we got a lot of great information the purpose of tonight like I said at the beginning was to get feedback from the community to get a lot of information now staff is going to go back and take that information and review all the data that we got review you know all of your input and your suggestions and how that might influence any potential recommendations that we would make to the council for changes to the noise ordinance that's not to say that there definitely will be or that there won't be it's just this is how we collect the data right so uh moving forward uh we may or may not propose inform uh amendments to the ordinance um any Amendment would go through the Village Council in a public hearing process um there may also be future workshops on noise if we get back and we see all this data and we decide you know what we need some more information we didn't get quite enough or we need some more clarification we may do another one of these in the future just to see where people stand on certain things or maybe more focal focal focalizing on certain topics so we might do that as well so that's why it's important to sign in for us please at the signin table so that we have your contact information we can keep you informed of what's happening with next steps here um and then we'll stay informed also want to remind you on one of your index cards in front of you if you want to jot down any other topics for workshops um and you can leave them um either on the table or with one of Staff um we'd be happy to look at whatever you want us to talk about you know I like doing workshops it's one of my things so I'll happy to do more of these you know as many as you guys want to do we'll do them so that's where we're at um does anybody have any final questions or anything before we move on Mr Horton first Don please I just wanted to thank you for this it's been a long time since we've had a community meeting and thank you for do this for mrme do you have anything I was piggybacking on the same thing it's so nice to have a discussion that everybody can get involved and I know we've been in the past in January we're supposed to have one about the baseball field there's been a lot of them that have been supposed to come up so I guess you know I'm glad that this came about tonight and I hope that everybody gets the idea whether it's you that call their workshops or whether it's council members that they are indeed a very good step to get the community more involved and to get the ideas so thanks again thank you no thank you all for participating extra see food gets SE butts in the seats so there you go but no thank you all for participating we couldn't do it without you all and all your input so I really appreciate all your participation any last words or comments this was a lot more enjoyable than the coun perfect thank you have a good night drive safe