e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Mr Bernstein here Mr marzel here Mr heler here Mr rker here M Rose here Mr Tremor here Mr weard Mr wall Mr Sullivan here Dr Campbell and can I have the open public meetings act statement please you got it good evening everybody to the August 5th 202024 planning board meeting uh it my pleasure to announce that in compliance with the open public meetings act all adequate notice of this regular meeting uh has been advertised in your man or prescribed by law excellent um can I have a motion for the payment of the voucher for the recording secretary for August 5th 2024 moved all those in favor I I I okay did everybody review the minutes of the July 15 2024 meeting yes yes uh do I have a motion to approve motion to approve Bernstein second hel uh can I have a roll call please Mr Brey yes Mr marzo yes Mr raker yes M Rose yes Mr chmer yes thank you that's it all right gentlemen any engineering or planning matters thank you uh any legal matters to discuss not at this time all right um do we have a master plan report yes thank you good evening the master plan subcommittee has received several subsection drafts from from our consultant CME um that the subcommittee members are currently reviewing um as we' mentioned before the ideas page is still up if anyone has any ideas and we'll keep you apprised thank you excellent thank you Mr de marzo um I do believe that the stubin office block 7309 live7 has been asked to be moved yes yes they've asked to be carried um we're going to carry them to October 28th with no further notice required excellent uh do we need to uh have a roll call on this um I think we just do a yeah we can okay U do I have a motion to approve the moving of the uh meeting to October 28th for Sten okay roll call please Mr brei yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker no M Rose yes Mr treemmer and Mr suin yes all right uh up first is block 11602 Lots 20 and 21 the castle office Plaza good to see you again Mr Fifer good evening good evening Mr chairman Adam feffer attorne on behalf of the applicant uh the application you have before you this evening is a mixed use uh office retail building with a approximately 6,000 50 squ foot footprint uh for total square feet of 12,100 square ft uh the property is located in the NC neighborhood commercial Zone uh is approximately 1.77 Acres I have Mr McFarland here we have him sworn in and we'll go to address uh all the reports all right if uh we could please swear please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right and the board accepts his credentials he's been here a few times just a just a few just once or twice thank you very much for the record Graham McFarland professional engineer professional planner certified indicial engineer uh Graham did you have an opportunity to uh review the reports prepared yes I yes I have and uh we'll we'll just go over the merits of the application uh give the board some of the some of the background and and just go through what we're what we're asking for tonight you can see we have up on the screen an aerial map that shows the uh shows the pi Q the property in question it's block 11602 Lots 20 and 21 the property has furniture on West Veterans Highway just a little bit east of the intersection with 571 with uh Tom River Road C cville Road uh at that at that particular intersection the property is located in the NC the neighborhood commercial Zone there are some single family homes to the rear of the property which are located in the in the R1 Zone um by that by that um condition the property does require buffers on its rear and its a little portion of its right side property line and those buffers are provided with the application again you can see the location of the property in West veteran highway it's also next door uh what used to be the Old Post Office post office and is now the pet pet uh crematorium you go to A2 for me next A2 is a site plan that we submitted in support of the application it shows the proposed two-story building uh it's about 12,000 Square fet in total with first floor being uh dedicated for retail use and the Second Story being dedicated for uh for office use uh the application requires a total of uh 62 parking spaces and we have a total of 62 parking spaces provided when we take the uh when we get the the bonus credit for the EV parking spaces that are that are provided you can see that the site will be served by a uh by a single driveway located along its West property line or on on the left left side as you look at the uh as you look at the site plan on the screen we do have some parking stalls in front of the building and the balance of the parking stalls are in the uh in the rear of the building when we looked at this particular site we of course felt was important for the building to have some visibility to the uh to the highway since it is a commercial use so we did Orient the building with the long axis parallel to West veterans and a short axis perpendicular to West veterans uh and again we do provide some parking in the front and and you know most of the parking is located in the rear part rear of the building uh one item that we did have to deal with in this particular item is the the property that sits to the left which is lot 22 uh common with our West property line there was a deed restriction in place um from when this property I guess it was was originally acquired um some some years back that the uh the garage that's on that property which is lot 22 had access um within this property to that garage so that has to be maintain as as part of this application as a as a deed restriction that's in place so that's why we chose chose to locate the proposed driveway close to the property line on the uh on the west on the west boundary your ordinance does require uh 10 foot from Curb line to property line we are proposing 5 feet in proximity to that garage so that is a design waiver that we are uh that we are we are seeking um I believe based upon that condition of the deed restriction in place that that that is uh that is is Justified uh if you can go to A3 for me next A3 you can see is just a uh colorized version of the Landscaping plan for the project you can see a little more clearly here looking at at the screen you can see the uh the drive VI in the parking areas you can see the building uh you can see in in the front of the property uh there will be a septic field there there was not public silver service available here nor is there public water available um so they Prov by well and septic uh and again you you can see a storm waterer management Basin in the rear of the property which is located in of course in in the low end of the property where the the topography dictates that it that it should be Lo that it should be uh should be located and uh we we show some of the you know show some of the Landscaping that is proposed uh with the application some plantings along the uh the parking area and some plantings along the um along the property line on the on the east side and then some plantings along the building as well uh and then A4 real quick A4 is a 3D view uh you know architect's rendering showing the uh showing the building you can see the two-story building set up for for multi-tenant use uh basically four spaces on on the bottom and and office spaces on the on the second floor uh and again this just shows the layout of the uh of the site and the the General uh appearance of of the building uh the building does comply with ordinance requirements related to related to Building height as it's only a two-story structure so we're not seeking any any relief in that regard and then A5 please A5 is just an an elevation showing the showing the front of the building again this is representative of the materials that that we believe and the the color styles that we believe would be used in the building construction at uh at at this time and of course we do have reports from uh from your professionals and advisory um Boards of the municipality uh first I'll start with the Owen L report I have one dated July 31st of 20024 where Mr CLE summarizes the uh summarizes the project he uh indicates that Eis is not required based upon the building size which is consistent with ordinance requirements uh Mr CLE did question the uh the number of parking spaces but I've already uh indicated that with the EV credit we do comply with the uh parking requirements we uh the site plan we currently do not show sidewalk proposed along the site front as as there was no other sidewalk in the vicinity but uh as always we'll defer that to the to the board's opinion uh of course if if sidewalk is not to be constructed the applicant would be obligated to uh comply with the pedest uh contribution to The Pedestrian fund uh Mr Clay points out the requirement storm order management system maintenance agreement to be put in place which the applicant would comply with uh we do have one one uh site identification sign proposed at at the front of the site which complies with ordinance requirements so there is no uh no relief s sought there and then Mr CLE does have a series of technical comments in the back end of his report and we would agree to comply with all of those technical comments uh Mr Peters issued a letter dated July 26th he also summarizes the uh the project tabulates the uh zoning criteria confirms the zoning that's that's in place um Mr um Peters also questions uh the wall signage and we would just indicate that any wall signage would comply with ordinance requirements we're not seeking any relief at at this time uh he he discussed the EV parking spaces which we're going to comply with uh we do have a loading area proposed which is I guess slightly under siiz compared to ordinance standards Mr uh Peters uh points out that a a loading zone of 35 ft in length is re required uh if we could go back to A2 please uh you can see on a site plan and maybe we can zoom in just a touch if we can just zoom in a touch uh we have loading area in the in the back part of the building here uh to accommodate single uni Siz trucks really required for the for the retail space so we have that loading area of 18 by 21 feet which I feel is a sufficient size for for this small building so I don't believe we we need a 35- foot loading area so that's that's technically a design waiver waiver from ordinance requirement uh Mr Peters commented on the uh the buffers associated with the application as I indicated in my um in my opening the property does have resident residentially zoned properties on the rear property line and on the back portion back portion of the uh side property line so in this area so we do have uh 10ft buffers proposed on that portion of the side property line and along the rear property line at this time we're proposing to retain the existing vegetation in there uh it it has become a standard practice though on on applications such as this where we're trying to retain existing vegetation after uh the clearing is is done that the area would be walked with the uh with the township Forester and if any of those areas if there happens to be some dead trees in the area or there's not adequate um adequate Landscaping in there we would agree to provide additional buffering subject to the recommendations of the township Forester or the township Eng engineer uh so we'd rather you know clear the site see what exactly what it looks like at those areas and then provide some additional Landscaping if needed working in conjunction with with both of them if those recommendations are made then you'll be willing to comply correct yeah and then Mr Peters points out that the uh again the The Refuge enclosure you can see we have it on the on the right side of the property right right back there uh technically the the ordinance requires it uh 10 ft we do have it set back 5T from the property line just at the corner uh and that's really just based upon the unique geometry of of the site where that one property line uh is not perpendicular to the street line and just ends up with a little bit of an odd angle there so we're asking for that that design waiver as well and then he has uh some technical comments Landscaping comments and notations to be added which we will agree to uh agree to address uh we also have a letter from the township Forester dated July 31st which ask for some additional information on the tree removal and landscap of plan and will provide and then a series of comments suggesting some uh some changes to Landscaping species and and adding some supplemental plantings throughout and we'll agree to address those comments and we have a letter from the from the police department dated February I believe it was there's a date on Fe date of February 27th um the the police uh department does make a comment about a deceleration Lane for the uh for the driveway uh this application would would not meet any requirements for a deceleration lande of course this is a county roadway and the the the new intersection design is going to be compliant with County requirements uh and again this at this a project of this size is well below any standard for a deceleration Lane so we would not be proposing any any deceleration Lane in accordance uh or for for this particular application and then we had also gone through a couple of rounds with the uh with the fire prevention uh the last letter I have is July 17th we we did have a an earlier letter uh that had some comments and we did address those comments you know made a resubmission and got this letter back on on July uh on July 17th and this latest letter has uh has three comments comment two uh is a technical comment about EV Park and and some sh and some emergency shut off and we'll comply with that comment three is just a uh notation about some power disconnects by a Fire official will of course agree with any comments there comment one of that letter from fire prevention talks about uh installation of a dry hydrant system uh asking for that and I don't believe that the that the uh mua has any plans for water man extension in this vicinity within the near future uh I also don't believe that the Bureau of fire prevention has any authority to require the applicant to install dry dry fire hydrant or water mains so we're uh not planning to comply with that particular comment as I don't think uh they have the authority to uh to ask us to uh to address that uh so that summarizes my uh my direct testimony at this time Mr chairman yes quick question um I see you have a flat roof I think it was in A4 are you planning just because Dr not here are you planning um solar yes the building will be solar solar ready solar capable Mr chairman Mr mcfallen uh I understand about the dry hydrant and you say right now there's no plans that you know of the MUA running lies out that way if the MUA runs liines out in the future would the applicant be willing to make the adjustments and do all that at that time yes if if the MUA uh if water public water was available along the site Frontage we we'd be happy to we we prefer to have public water available for a project like this but it's not available right now um so right now we would be served by uh by private well but if water is made available we would agree to connect you do that as a stipulation correct correct yes thank you um let us give this over to our professionals to see if they have anything they'd like to say um actually not really Mr chairman Mr Graham uh Mr mland covered everything I do you have um U traffic we do okay okay the only comment question I would have would be more for the um the traffic expert all right yes okay if you're not going to comply with the fire uh official I think you should put it in writing uh we are having a discourse between the Fire official and some previous testimony um and I think it's a courtis that it's in writing in you copy of the board so let them know that you're not going to comply with that uh and I would I would suggest the same thing for PD so that they're aware uh because I'm sure they're not watching this this video nor do they have an intention to um I think you're misguided on the dry hydrant it's peace pipe it's not an adverse cost to your project it's probably an insurance benefit uh as far as that area being served uh water is coming down that way uh there's several projects that require wat a new Firehouse uh there's a new church all to be served by domestic water so it's not unreasonable for it to go that further distance and if I remember correctly uh they were coming out of Jackson Park and they were going to head up the highway towards town hall so uh you know just sitting on this board for several years there's different projects that are coming that do require water so that Chunk in between uh inevitably will happen regarding the sidewalk um I'd like to have you uh I'd like to ask you to put them in uh we're at a a Nexus right now with the the schools and budgets and uh it is very feasible that the community uh will be having to walk to school if they're in proximity to school as well as the change in the Dynamics of the uh the residents walking back and forth to SCH uh I know that the the property up the corner from where I live which is W Drive is is situated for a house of worship or cool and it is reasonable to think that at some point we're going to have a whole lot of people trying to walk down the highway uh and I'd rather see them on a sidewalk that in the shoulder doing so safely so those are my three recommendations but I would definitely put those other two in writing so that those authorities are absolutely aware and if they want to kick it back uh let them but make them aware of it in all fairness yes and uh in regards to your first comment about the water I I will reach out to the MUA again and ask them if there are any plans for any water uh coming along the site Frontage and uh frankly we would prefer to have public water service if it was available so if it works you know TimeWise with this application we would certainly provide the Public Water Service uh if it doesn't work again TimeWise with this application we would put the well in and and go from there but I will reach out to the MUA again and if it is available we would again we prefer to have the public service available right I'm going to save you the trouble of a phone call there are no plans right now for war um I just went up to the attorney just to make sure I can mention next door is the pet Crematory did you look at any of the stuff that the fire department made them do I did not review that in for tonight's application first of all don't tell us what the fire department can or can't do this is the changing Town growing town the fire department is playing catchup they're doing a tremendous job stepping up right now it's a Manpower problem in this town so time and Manpower has to be helped out by water if the Fire official said he wants a dry pipe system I don't see what the argument is other than you want to save money saving money doesn't save lives so you're not going to get any any help here number two next door they made her put a 6in commercial well in in Li of a dry pipe so you don't want a dry pipe then you put the commercial well in with the generator and the other system compliant to the next door I I don't see what what the big deal is you you guys come in here and you shove in these big buildings in these little spots and you know I want waiver I want variance I want I want I want and then you're going to sit here and tell me what you don't want to do that's unacceptable ju just to clarify I think what grandma testified to was that at this time since there's no water in in in the area that will were're going to ask to pass on putting in the drywell but in the event it does come in front of the property we obviously would no problem installing it at that point and you've also twice been told by the Fire official who wants a dry pipe system correct and and you'll stipulate that correct yes as a as a condition yes no I mean I I think that the woman that opened up that pet Crematory Jen styman was held over the barrel for a couple years a lot of money was piing out of her pocket and she was just some woman that lived in this town trying to make a nice little little business out of the old post office and they ran her into the dirt we're not doing that here but if that's the bar that's been set I worked on that building the person that lives behind them I don't know if they're hear in the audience or not but they gave her a hell of a time I had to go in there with a bobcat cut out a swath behind the building and put up arbites just for the light pollution you're now going to be coming down alongside that property you're going to have be hands full with that but that's a whole another thing but I'm telling you right now you're Landscaping what little we see here is going to be a problem for you we've already agreed there are some Landscaping comments we've already agreed that we will comply um with the board's recommendations this is just a personal heads up I'm and just to just to touch on the um the fire protection just at a at a real General level um you know the pet crematorium building and use is a lot different than an office building that pet pratorum use that has you know high temperature object that's doing what they're doing is a lot different than what's happening uh at at the office building so different requirements for fire protection of course uh we of course are going to abide abide by by the building code uh whatever the code requires in in regards to fire protection will be provided and that's what we're going to comply with right they also have a machine that does 3,000 readings per hour and it's a 99% efficient basically no different than the heater in your house so it was more a thing of but anyway it's a much different use than than the office retail use that that we're proposing that's all I just want want to have that put on the record that the requirements for that are not the same as the require requirements for for this well if you notice though we've been requiring a well with a sstn with a generator because we're trying to get this town more up to date great if if this building has to have fire suppression it has to be done so in accordance with code requirements that that could require underground storage tank uh we're not to that point of the of the design yet but if that is necessary it would be provided and that's what I'm telling you you're going to have to be able to fill that before the fire department gets there there are no Mains coming in so you're going I mean we've done them on projects many many times and we know how to do it but we're not to that point on this particular project yet that not that far into the architect design raise the bar but just to go back to the basics for a sec so the Fire official makes a recommendation as a condition right you have to comply with them as an outside agency if if in the event that you disagree with it and you don't want to comply with it You' have to come back before the board seek a waiver of that condition correct I agree with that interpretation again this is a recommendation they're asking for it's not a requirement um in terms of bylaw that they could ask for it that being said just so we're clear again we've stipulated that should the time come that waterers in front of our property we agree that we're going to connect and we're going to have to put in so we're basically going on this in this instance we're basically complying we're just saying that at the time of construction or time we get there we're saying it's not not need what I'm saying is that the asside agency if they make a recommendation and you disagree with it all right then you would still have to seek relief from that condition in order to obtain the zoning permit and again two different things if it's a requirement uh in terms of they're asking for something that that is required by stat opposed to a recommendation they make uh no um we would not have to come back right but if it's legally mandated and required then you would have to comply right and as the firefighter in mate used to be the chief here in this town I went from New York City to volunteer and it's a tremendously different world and you have some really tremendously ambitious people that come out in the middle of the night and that's why I'm saying yes you don't want to spend the money I get that but I am saying you need to be proactive you may not get water coming down that road for 10 years you know this as well as me you know just like the sidewalks I mean what's gone on over the years with just uh we'll wave the sidewalk really has to stop too I mean that poor gentleman this ear in June that got hit by the car on a bicycle had there been a cbon sidewalk there would have been a line of sight it might not have happened this is not the case here but for safety especially since that whole corner is being developed up there it would be prudent I would think to do it I should not re agreed agreed Agreed 100% on the sidewalk thank you Mr R okay so I'm going to touch on a few things Mr what are your projects is the the Cog uh over by Grand Avenue and one of the the main tenants that I I was preaching for that one was safety it went down the applicant agreed to 5 foot sidewalks it's on a County Road it's a major building I drive past it's got three-foot sidewalks nobody knows why I don't know what the disconnect is between what we agreed to hear and what happens out in the field there's an ensuing problem going on here I caught a lot of grief from another hearing that you were involved in from from the fire official going back and forth so the deal is everything is in writing if you had a conversation great a fact is a fact until it can be proven otherwise so if it's not in a letter it's here Say Never Happened whatever so we're laying down the law and trying to keep things nice neat and clean and organized to that effect Mr Feer if the applicant sells this building six months there is no reasonable guarantee that the next buyer or the next buyer or 10 buyers down the road would ever sit down and read the lovely little outline of what we agreed to here tonight so it's in reality it's never going to happen that's a fact okay no one reads resolutions 20 years down the road until they want to modify something okay it's not like a d restriction so what I'm asking is just moving forward we keep it nice clean and organized if it doesn't happen you need to respectfully put it wunning to the other side to that effect if the Fire official makes a recommendation you really should abide by it because what's the point in even sending them the drugs okay it's a dry pipe it happens all over the town in a lot of places there's dry hydrant me being a firefighter driving the truck and being an engineer they're black hydrant they're dead hydrant but in the event that God forbid somebody has to lay into something and pump water it's going to save your butt save your asset potentially Save a Life okay it's a couple of sticks of ductal iron pipe okay there's give and take you're asking for some variances whatnot you probably have $5,000 worth of pipe I don't know why we're talking about it okay I'm going to use the word please thank you I would uh strongly suggest that you consider what Mr Riker said he was very persuasive applicant would agree to put the dry pipe in excellent so we will put that in as a said please so I had no choice applicant stipulates we'll put it in as a condition of approval yeah well just just as a a short stop the nearest sstn is up by winterbar it's 6,000 gallons that means you got to set a truck up there suck the water out of that or go to a retention Basin and hope it's full there is nothing on that side of town other than Roa farm and I can tell you having drifted at a Roa Farm you can't get any production because you're sucking up garbage and frogs all right and then you have to transport the water real simple things are I hate to use the word in sad shape with fire departments with the volunteers they've aged out guys like him and I don't exist anymore and the new guys don't want to put a couple hundred hours in you know they just had a fire at Bartley and they had two guys two trucks and they relied on the paid guys to come okay it's things have changed understood the second floor that's Office Buildings right that's office first floor retail second floor office well you have a nice picture up there nice 7-Eleven I mean you could have a a a a grease fire real quick run up first first floor is going to be retail use not not restaurant use so that's just that was just an architect rendering he put the signs on a on a building without consulting us or he under the bus on that one but do you understand what was saying you could have a situation downstairs even in a in in a commercial store now you have people trapped upstairs so even though it's a firehouse right around the corner they still have to come from home toand that Firehouse it's a time constraint where now if you have a commercial well that's feeding the System Sprinklers go off they get a bed they don't get so that's the mindset all right all right uh does anyone else have any further questions yeah could you just go over the design waiver request again please yes there are uh there are two which really relate to the Sim similar similar item uh one is for the one is for the part for the curb line along the uh the left side or the west side in proximity to the to the garage remember we have the we have the um deed restriction to keep access to to that garage so we have the curb located 5T off the prop property line approximately from this point to uh to about that point to about that point 10 ft required we have it at 5 feet off the property line uh the second one is the dumpster in the back right portion right at the corner uh ordinance has a similar requirement dumpster is supposed to be 10 ft we have it 5T off the property L just that that corner again really caused by the uh the odd angle we have of that of that property line on the on the east side thank you and and the height the height complies we comply height okay have to work about the par all right uh anyone else have any further questions for this all right do you have anyone else you'd like to sry traff chair oh sorry thank you um Mr mcfr I'm just going to run through the our report a couple things for the record um the architectural plans are going to get revised they show the entire building um being retail so as a condition of the approval there'll be revised architect plans that show what's been testified to yes as it relates to the access drive if you're leaving the site if you're in the back parking lot you come front the entire Drive aisle is parallel to the property line we get to the front parking lot can we skew it and make it perpendicular to West Veterans Highway that would give us a greater separation to that sort of driveway that's next door for those units left uh yes yes Mr Peters actually that was one of the County's requirements and I have been working with them I've actually sent them a couple uh a couple of uh sketches we're going to be kicking the driveway over just a little tiny bit to the east that would address that comment okay the the county basically had the same exact comment and I'm not sure we got to a conclusion about the sidewalk but for the board members I would I would say one of the planning reasons to put the sidewalk in is we're starting to reimo the area down by the Old Tavern which is only I think two or three properties away so as you come out of that Village or that node or whatever we want to call it from a planning perspective having the sidewalks a a reasonable connection moving forward and quite frankly it's 100 foot a sidewalk when we get done moving the driveway we we had agreed to the sidewalk okay um as it relates to that Landscaping buffer around the back of the property and the east side um can we get a note on the plans whether it's a general notes or the Landscaping plans about the supplemental plantings after clearing because it's successional growth there's nothing respectfully nice out there and quite frankly if you're over on Peach Tree and you look through they're just going to see the detention Bas in the back of a parking lot yes I had already stipulated we would agree to that condition well or notation I want besides the resolution I'd like there not be a note on the the plan agreed yes agreed that's all I have for now Mr chairman thank you thank you Mr Peters oh I'm sorry Le are you going to consolidate the Lots yes that was all thank you okay thank you Mr Peters Mr K we now have Mr if there no more questions of Mr McFarland we have Mr Kenall for traffic hey you Mr Feer this one more question so the signage what do we uh we're not seeing any variances no nothing you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth yes I do all right Scott Kennel k n NE L with MCD and Ray Associates may you once or twice a couple times board accepts the credentials yes we accept your credentials well thank you Mr Kenn you prepared a traffic impact analysis is that correct yes my office prepared a report dated February 7 2024 and in summary we had conducted traffic counts in December 2023 at the cville uh route 528 intersection and then we estimated traffic based on the type of uses proposed with retail on the first floor office office on the second floor we're estimating approximately 30 trips during the morning peak hour and 50 excuse me 50 trips in the afternoon peak hour uh take into consideration the Ocean County protocol we projected traffic out to 20134 and with that consideration it was determined that the site driveway would operate a level service a in the morning and a level service B in the afternoon uh that section of 528 the volumes are fairly low approximately 4 to 500 Vehicles two-way during the peak hours and based on the nature of this use we would get good levels of service we also analyzed the intersection of cville Road in 528 and found that the level of service would remain the same with or without this development when considering the 2034 Bill J um Graham has gone on over the uh parking where we were in compliance and we're have designed the site to provide positive on-site circulation and I guess Doug you had a had a question um hearing that the driveway is going to get shifted kind of removes the question but the concern was um adjacent lot 22 I'm seeing that with the um the dwelling numbers it's probably some type of non-conforming multif family probably with three addresses I'm assuming three and it was just a concern about the driveway coming out to West veterans and the proximity of the new driveway but now that it's shifted um for the county um the concerns removed all right good um just a question uh the Jackson Township Police Department traffic safety unit believes that a deceleration Lane should be added for vehicles traveling west slowing down to make a right turn into the proposed site and that a left turn only lane should be added for vehicles traveling East and turning into the proposed site now earlier Mr Beer said that they were not um your clients were not uh willing to do that what are your thoughts on this well again given I know it's a 5050 mph roadway but given the um the traffic volumes and the Ocean County criteria where developments in excess of 200 parking spaces require XEL D Cel and the traffic projections it's my opinion they're not warranted and the county has not raised that as a as a requirement in their review of this application um in my opinion and also given the location of this driveway where it's located east of the traffic signal the sight distance is excellent out there we we exceed the required sight distance requirements given the um uh the straight and flat nature of the roadway in that area so in my opinion it can operate safely and efficiently uh based on the existing traffic vies and the projected traffic vies as well as the traffic to be generated by this site uh when you were doing your study and you were projecting to the Future were you taking into account the growth in that area we we had used the the Ocean County protocol as well as NJ doot and we in we increased the traffic volumes by 10% uh so that was taken into consideration consistent with how we do other developments and uh they're you know there are significant developments in the area which I mean developments generating over 100 peak hour trips we generally include that in our analysis as well but um here we thought was appropriate that the 10% growth uh was appropriate and so the county agreed as well because they did not request any additional um analysis of the bill condition all right thank you uh does anyone else have any questions for this all right uh gentlemen anything else um do you have an architect with you tonight we do not have the architect here we had the rendering uh that we provided do you have anyone else that will be testifying no there'll be no other Witnesses all right um do you have a summation we going to open up to the public first or I'll I'll summarize after all right um I will open this up to the public for questioning of the witnesses this is for questioning of the witnesses only and please state your name and address for the record all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes I do and your name and last for the record Ed Bannon BN o n 22 aborn Court I'd like to request that this applicant and every applicant from this point forward has to install sidewalks so to help with the courtesy busing lack of that we're going to have coming down the road if they're not going to provide courtesy busing then they they they we should have sidewalks throughout the town including this applicant right now this is just cross- examination so if if you have any questions for the uh the applicants experts now would be my my only question is that they definitely install the sidewalks I think they agreed to that right correct they okay all right anyone else have any questions for the applicants Witnesses and the applicants Witnesses only this is not c a comment public hment will be next guys no I'm not sure all right you like to com I have a question about the if if you have a question for any of the experts now's time what do you need me to do you do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right say your name and spell the last John Van Endor o s t n d o r p van v v n o o s t e n d o r p right you're address for the record 19 Peach Tree I'm I'm the guy the this guy in the blue I already mentioned that questioned about the lighting and gave the woman next door hard time I'm just wondering what the lighting looks like in the back I don't see it on the parking lot is it all raised is it 3T off the ground what is it because by the way we never fix the lighting next door like you guys said said we agree to stuff and then nobody ever changes anything that's you going to open it up again later for public comment you can come up for public comment yes uh it's not it's not one of the displays that we put together but the um the you can see the islands there are lights in the islands in the in the parking area and then there are uh three lights there's one light two lights on the west property line one over here one over here and then there's one in the front in front of the building sir you be on the record believe we have uh we have 16 foot high lights light poles required so they're by by Commercial Lighting standards they they're pretty low uh as to their as to their height and uh the plan that we presented complies with ordinance requirements see see no one come forward and make a motion to close public oh hold on one second are these lights shielded yes we'll provide shields uh on the uh on the house sides as applicable correct all right do do you have a question for the or or comment raise your right answer all right do you swear affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth yes I do all right please spell state your name spell your last of the record my name is Bak zi B and boy a k u l last name Zan zebra a v e r i so I have a your address uh it's actually the old Address is 165 South New Prospect I'm the retail property right next door it's a block next application it's a different application NE okay now is there anyone else that has any questions uh for the witnesses cross examination on Cross examination seeing no one come forward I ask for a motion to close mtion Mo second Bernstein all in favor I I I will now open it to the board for any further comments Cross Public comment from the public Mr so we're going to open it to public comment open it I'm sorry we're going to be opening it to public comment anyone wishing to come forward to make a a comment on this application and this application only please feel free to come to the microphone state your name and address and be sworn in all right we're going to swear again again want me to spell it again you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right and Miss Board secretary you have his info all right so I'm just my question question is the property is zoned NC what does that mean neighborhood commercial neighborhood commercial specific type of Zone and why would we be putting a giant building with a giant parking lot uh that touches five residential homes are we considering anything that's going to do to devalue all those houses it's a permitted useed Zone I understand it's a permitted horrible look and feel for the rest of the neighborhood and if we do put buildings in there or residential not sorry commercial uh stores a 711 right there does the town have uh operating hours can that be open 24 hours 7 days a week am I going to have people in my backyard that you bring that up so I would like for the applicant to um State for the record and for uh the um applic that the operating hours of this building will only be from 8:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. mon Monday through Saturday and Sunday typically 9:00 am to 6: p.m. and that was part of it's the statement of operations that was submitted with the application and is part of the record all right so that's in their stat and what's the lighting going to be on 247 or same hours gentlemen uh we we can um devise a security lighting plan so that there's just minimal lighting uh o overnight after after 10:00 so there'll be reduced lighting uh from 10:00 and can we lower the lighting to pedestal style Lighting in the parking lot because right now my light my backyard is lit up uh like it's Time Square at all hours of the night with the property next door no we would not be able to comply with ordinance requirements with uh with ground level Lighting in a commercial parking lot they're required to have that kind of lighting but it will be shielded so that it doesn't it's going to be a lot of light and you got five properties surrounded by that parking lot well also the Landscaping will there's no Landscaping there I don't know what they're talking about it's all cleared out they cleared the entire property like six months ago theyve agreed to up upgrade the land eight to 10 12 foot to start with or two foot I I mean this two foot's going to take a well the the ordinance does have standards for planting Heights will comply with ordinance requirements just wondering what what are we going to look at for planting are they going to be are we going to start with five foot arbores we going to start with 10 foot arbores or we going to start with one foot arbes the township Forester has a has recommendations that they uh that they make the sure that the applicants comply with um so it could be eight to 10 years before the light is remediated that's what we're saying I'm just asking I point that specifically don't know what what type of plant they're going to put where I understand I'm just pointing out my how unhappy I am because it's going to be a bunch of lightting made up all the cars that pull around back there it's going to shine right in the back of my house and I don't understand why we have all of the parking in the back and just one row in the front I who wants to enter a store where there's only eight cars at the park park in the front but you realize also when you went to the town with forever remembered years ago they put the arities and like you said it was they we actually took more trees down than we put in there it was kind of silly mhm your point but also you had the town maker shut the lights off then what happened in that parking lot with no lights she leaves them on not all time anyway she's no and there's three floods and they're at whatever 50 they're about higher than these lights here so and they shine right in she can't touch them I don't know I don't even know if she technically really owns them because I think they're actually Wired from the street right to her right to that post noed she actually was shutting them off but because well because all it went on she did sell the it's another company that owns the place just just so we have to keep the testimony to this what I'm saying is when the lights were shut off you had kids in the back and then she had to go to the town because it was drug paraphernalia beer bottles and other debris from what was going on back there I understand so I mean it's kind of understand your your point with the lighting maybe you can get a variance from the town put a higher fence up too what you know like I said there surrounded by five residential homes the noise today with that property not this one the noise today at 6 o'clock 5 o'clock in the morning is ridiculous it is a major roadway that that's another good point you guys brought up I don't understand how anybody's going to have time to stop to go into this place now I you guys don't know the property probably as well as I do but there's all trees between this property and the and the crematorium and you're going to say line of sight is wonderful no it's not it's all trees if you put a sign where that sign's supposed to be it's locked by a tree coming from this direction so you're not going to see it so I'm I don't know first accidents could probably be about a week or two after you guys put this place in there someone's going to get rear ended so unless you're going to get H to start cutting down trees there's no way you're going to see that sign before you put in it also you're going to put solar on there good luck just trying this property surounded by trees also so you get solar it from maybe uh 11:00 in the morning to 2:00 in the afternoon rest of the time it's all going to be out just my opinion well thank you for your I don't like it I understand thank you for your testimony does anybody else wish to come forward and make a comment on this application and this application only yes state your name and address Carlos Martins 46 hang hang on do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes sir all right please state your name last of the record Carlos Martins m r t NS 406 Cobain Road just very short good very short question um on the solar because you guys brought it up did are you are you going to put solar on it or just it's going to be able to have done it at any time that in here that you actually it was going to be solar it would be solar ready so what does that mean solar ready the ability to connect to solar okay so will you connect it to solar or how does that work I answered the question will be solar ready okay so you're not going to if I may what Mr feffer is trying to elude and I won't testify on his behalf he's saying that the building would be structurally sufficient to support the paddles right it's the applicant's option if it's approved if he so chooses tomorrow or 10 years down the road to do this he has the ability to do so uh we cannot mandate it it's an option like a paint color okay I just wanted that clear all right anybody else um seeing no one else come forward I make a motion to close public portion second at berstein all those in favor I uh gentlemen do you have anything else you wish to add just so the board has an understanding the neighbor who lives behind had a couple ments as they related to lighting um please understand that while his property is some distance back it is the transition between the neighborhood commercial and the residential Zone um and that's the reason that there's a buffer requirement and that's the reason that board members are often loathed to Grant relief from that this is the protection he gets from this type of development so if there's a concern that the cars that are going to park there after 5:00 p.m in the fall and winter are going to negatively impact them let's put a fence up the length of the property it's a length of fence okay as it relates to the light stanions there's two ways to light the back of this property one is to put the light poles where Mr McFarland has them which is in the curb Islands which is another plus or minus 70 ft from the neighbor's property but they stand up lighting reduces it as it gets further away from the light pole you could put the lights closer to the property line have them at the same height and have cut off Shields around the back okay sometimes you still see the sort of the sky glow off those cut off Shields so there's sort of six of one half a dozen of another from our perspective the least intrusive and I hate agreeing with Mr McFarland on the record on TV is is the plan that his office has put forward but as it relates to a concern that if all the neighbor in a residential zone is getting from a new business in a commercial zone is a 10- foot buffer of whatever the heck is out there that's left after we clear maybe we consider putting up a four or six foot fence or asking for some significant more a significant increase in the buffer to prevent light spillage onto the property I don't think either of those is a gross overstep by the board in terms of complying with the buffer requirements of the ordinance this is a transition zone from commercial back to residential couple hundred feet back from the highway put a buffer strip so I don't mind if we take an extra five minutes and have a conversation about a buffer strip to protect our neighbor so you suggesting like a double row of 10 or 12 foot arites would be a a help a double row of like a 10 or 12 foot arives as a requirement could serve the same purpose as long as they're installed starting at six or eight I mean you're talking about car lights they're 30 36 inches off the I guess even a pickup truck maybe 42 inches off the ground so I given that we're having a conversation at some point I'd like to hear from the applicant about what they think a better solution might be um I don't mind spending other people's money but we should at least ask them before we pick their right so Mr feffer does your client would he be amable to maybe putting out either these thicker arities or a fence a vinyl yeah I just checked with Mr McFarland and I think he has a suggestion well yeah listen listening to Ernie's comment um Ernie I think to address headlight glare I think the best solution would be to have the fence uh right up along the curb line of the ROM perimeter of the parking area uh not so much back at the property line so it it catches any headlights that are that are uh in the parking lot and and the light bounces back on the site and doesn't get doesn't get directed to the uh to the property owner right we just we need to make sure we still have reasonable safe access to the storm Water Management Facility behind it right of course but I would but I would propose uh fencing basically along the uh along the right side and the backside uh you know curve line of the parking area I think would help address those particular that particular particular concern if the board members think that would be a all right uh I I don't disagree with you gr uh as far as the back parking con my advice is don't put it right up near the curve uh one people drive into it two there's i' would put it like four feet off the curb line or so I would go as far back as you can without getting into the Bas because you got to have some place to stack the snow but we want to keep it close to the fence so it does stop the headlight glare from projecting um let's AG I mean I would say we agree on maybe six feet off the Cur maybe six feet off the curb line you're GNA get stuck with the snow agreed you know as an operational thing but but as opposed to having the fence at the property line that's age agre you know 100 feet or whatever from the from where the the headlight flares I don't think that would help at all and we'll certainly uh agree to add to to add um Landscaping into buffering at this time and still stipulate that if during a field inspection more is required we would still to put more buffering in so add arbites uh some some Evergreen buffering in those buffers to supplement those areas to try to um you know appease some of the some of the perceived impact Mr mcf Fallen question I understand moving the fence back and forward a little bit when you do that the only concerns we run into lat years is are you going to commit to maintaining the distance of where that fence is into the property line because when you start moving fences off the property line you this dead space of four or five ft and you have a mess there in two years who is responsible for that right well our in in the rear our storm water management Bas is behind the fence so there is a uh is a maintenance agreement that has as you're well aware has to be executed with the township so the uh the owner has um you know responsibility to maintain the storm water management Pac and also he of course has responsibility to maintain the entirety of the property thank you all right the applicant stipulates to all that yes okay excellent excellent does the board have any other further comments Mr rer all right uh Mr feffer in in in respect and protection for your applicant um we're a Miss because we don't have the architect um and I and unfortunately it doesn't look like we have anybody here that could testify unfortunately you can't testify and the planner can't be the architect uh so just the the laundry list of things that need to get on the record you know I think we've made excellent progress here tonight but I think it's in protection of the the applicant finishes on the exterior of the building we touched on the statement of operations um we don't have anything on the height of the building we usually go through all that that gets on record for your protection um you know me I'm going to ask about elevators um we never covered you know the composure of the Suites on the second floor if it's one tenant or potential multi-tenant um directory signage building signage we kind of sort of did is z a Lobby um you know location of fire exits all all that [Music] jazz for the protection of your applicant I you know I would recommend may I that you know before we vote that we should hear that testimony get that on record so we we again Mr mcfallen as a planner we did submit all those all those architecturals on those plans and Mr R Fallen can talk about the planning testimony with regard to the breakdown of the actual of of the building of the second floor and I do believe we actually can address All Those Questions uh for you I didn't hear anything about the height of the building and and the finishes of the building the lobby they they did stipulate on they stipulated height forgive me do we have updated plans we haven't seen any plans right only plan I haven't seen any plans I'm sorry just what was on the on there for the first time respectfully they were all submitted they came the C they came like two days ago three days ago so we so we had submitted the preliminary architectural plans uh to the board in support of the application just to go through a couple of the uh the points that Mr uh Mr reker um had had addressed the the first FL first floor plan shows uh four retail spaces each with an individual bathroom and then it has a stairwell going up to the uh to the second floor uh each of those spaces will have access to the uh to the front parking lot and to the enter the enter the back parking lot the uh the second floor of the building shows uh one two three office spaces and two bathrooms uh and of course a stairwell leading up from the uh from the first floor below uh we did provide the renderings that that showed what we believe would be the uh materials and and color pal utilized in the building design although of course that is subject to change as it is a preliminary rendering and uh this board this local ordinances do not provide uh I I believe don't take any jurisdiction over those particular items uh on on planning board applications however we did present that for the board information and representation of what we of what is proposed at this time a flat roof is proposed with a pared it's a two-story building that would be well below the uh the permissible Building height of 35 ft I don't know the exact Dimension but I I would estimate that the building height would probably end up being in the 24 to 26t range providing uh you know 11 or 12 foot uh ceiling Heights which is pretty typical for a uh for a small office building as to other comment related to elevator uh and fire suppression uh of course the building and all construction on site is required to comply with with building codes as they exist at the time of construction any applicant with of course is representing they will comply with all all those uh codes uh 88 does not require an elevator for a building of of this of this size I actually did some research on that this afternoon Mr rer because I know that's one of your favorite um favorite items to uh to to discuss uh Ada guidelines again do not require an elevator for a building of the size it's a three-story building or or much greater square footage where elevator uh requirement becomes mandatory uh so it is optional on a building like this at this at this time uh the plan that we submitted does not include an elevator I think you got it on the record thank you very you try I haven't heard anything about the septic system I did testify that there is a septic system proposed with the application located in the front of the building between the highway and the uh building footprint it's proposed but we don't have any approval from the county or the state we do not have approvals from the Usha County Health Department yet it is uh more typical that that approval is pursued after the uh plan and approval issued uh issued from this board yeah this is what's becoming a problem here I already exposed the last time that the engineer self-c certifies so it's a rubber stamp from the county which I I think that for the the board's protection we need to start can I finish we we need to require that maybe the state takes a look look at it make sure it's within and M Mr Tremor it's it's a a little bit more complicated than that so so technically that's considered an as agency approval we don't have any jurisdiction on that so the only way that that we would be able to do that is if the if the township literally passed an ordinance making that prior approval part of the checklist as part of the application item so it's a whole that's a whole different animal I mean we're talking about orance approval and whole nine yards I totally agree with you 100% but the problem that we have is that you're putting a little Pond where there needs to be a lake you know they're undersizing these things and you know it's a problem I wanted on record that they build this thing in a couple years now it blows out of the ground I have a like to stand on because I at least mentioned it I know it's a great very gr area and I think that when they come with these proposals they should put a bigger field instead of the bare minimum as a show of good faith but there's nothing I can do about it at least I may had my say on record Mr chairman um Mr maro's next thank you sorry sorry um so you just testified did you draw the architectural plans I did not so I just you know again very respectfully I I'm looking at the the preliminary and final major site plans that I have that I had for tonight I don't see anything that says A2 on it I didn't see the landscape for A3 with the the colors on it what I'm looking at right now I I don't know the date of this what I'm looking at correct you were if I could just explain the process you were provided with the with the full set of plans that we provide for the for the site plan so you have a drawing set that includes 20 22 sheets that has cover sheet site plan the landscape plan utility plan grading plan all a whole bunch of detail sheets bunch of stuff that frankly you guys never look at but but that's the whole set of site development plans when we come here tonight to make a presentation to the board typical practice is that we make some exhibits so that we can talk about the application things that we think we're going to need to present and show show to the board and to the public so we put a handful of exhibits together tonight we have a total of five which is the aerial two plans from our sheet and then the two architectural plans so you were provided with with the full package you know from from the board secretary and then tonight we're here we bring generally just a you know a couple sheets that we usually need to talk about and and answer the questions that the board has and try to give an accurate repres representation what the application is but no architect so I don't know know how we could I mean we always have an architect giving testimony about it and you didn't draw the plans and I I just don't see how we can accept your testimony based upon the fact that you don't have the architect's knowledge I understand you can talk about a building but I certainly don't believe because you didn't draw the I think what my board the consensus is is that they would like to see the applicant bring in an architect is that feasible it's not that it's not feasible an application like this I just want to make the statement is a straightforward twostory mixed use building um Mr McFarland uh has given testimony as a planner got know how many thousands of times um Mr F in in your experience do you usually you review the architectural plans yeah well we we review them for coordination with the site plan and go over various issues we have conversations and we you know work to to put the package together but of course we we present the site plan based upon or the architectur work in conjunction with the architect and develop the the whole package right so my point in in asking that is that in this what I call feel is a fairly straightforward application um again if the board is is insisting that we come back on another date and bring the app the architect to give literally the same exact answers that's what we're going to have to do but I believe that there are other applications that yes the architect is needed there were a lot of very specific detailed questions that have to go through we did not think that this was one of those type of applications I leave that to the board if the board uh insist he want us to come back on another date and go through another half hour of testimony you're going to hear the same exact things that's the board's uh Choice I'm I'm going to leave that up to the board I just want to just put on record that Mr McFarland is it's a significant amount of experience but he is testifying as a fact witness as to architectural renderings because he didn't put it together himself but uh that doesn't that can be overcome because that just goes to the weight of the testimony that you give to the individual who's giving the testimony right so it's a it's a weight argument right when it comes down to uh the the vote for the approval um but I'll leave it up to the board as to what direction they want to go in it would uh it would seem to me that I think a majority of the board here would like to hear from the architect directly uh I we could schedule this can we come back in two weeks the testimony should be no more than in all honesty less than 10 minutes of Tes I'd have to ask our secretary when we have an [Music] opening next meeting when's the next available 10 minutes so M mfor so you're testifying as both an engineer and a planner correct correct and as a planner you're testifying to what the architecturals represented and everything correct that's correct and we've accepted your professional licenses and stuff yes I I personally have no problem accepting your planner license and stuff as that being a matter of Recon thank you I'd like to hear from members of the board uh their thoughts my only concern is if someone raises this as a precedent and then tries to weaponize it he did it for this guy and you know you got to do it for us I mean I'm confident in you know he sac describe things uh you know the drawings are simple uh but I'm concerned that in the future maybe use as a tool against us that you know well he didn't have an architect I mean they've they've pretty much met all the other conditions the only thing that's out there is the the acceleration Lane in left turn lane which is honestly uh it's County driven yeah you know I mean the police want it uh we we asked him to notify that he was not they they were not going to do it which is a respectful thing to do and if the county is not requiring it the County's going to review it they could come back later as the county always does and make them do it but that's third party approval outside of our jurisdiction yeah uh Mr Shay getting to Mr Riker's point would this set a presidents or would this be considered a oneoff situation well every every individual every application's got to be it's got to be individualized got to be taken on the merits of its own application with that being said what happens is that I wouldn't say we get spoiled sometimes but in a lot of other boards I would say you rarely ever see an architect but they don't come in nearly as frequently as they have them before us now what happens is that the architectural issues have to comply with the IBC and and fire code and all that stuff stuff so a lot of that a lot of those issues get vetted out within the jurisdiction of building and code because they have to comply right um so that's not necessarily something that um is obligatory uh From perspective of the planning board is it nice to have somebody to you know have up there and and give testimoni as to every single little detail some of which good amount of which we don't necessarily even have jurisdiction over um you know but for health and safety reasons it's good to have right um do I think this is going to set a precedence I I I don't think so the the the the board itself has the power of subpoena all right so if it boils down to a situation where we absolutely deem it necessary for the health and safety and all of that uh to be put on record as to whether or not um building is going to comply and make everybody safe we have the ability of taking that precedent and nuking it okay so I'm not worried about this setting a precedent with that being said it's this goes to the weight of the testimony Mr McFarland is an engineer and he's a planner he's put a good amount of testimony on the record as to everything that we've that we've asked of him tonight um the architectural issues will be vetted out at at coding at at uh building and and code in the future you know we unfortunately just don't have anything to do with that because it's past the jurisdiction that we have um so with that being said you guys have got to determine as to whether or not you want to move forward with the voting in this application and and see whether or not the weight of it is Mr chairman um I you asked for the board's opinion um I agree with what Mr Bry said earlier um I think Mr mland did a pH phenomenal job in putting everything on the record um I think we've had previous applications we're talking about precedent that have not always brought in renderings in similar style applications um and I think nothing's going to change based on and the exact renderings and um it's a it's it's a clean rable and I and I would be ready if the chairman allows to make a motion anybody else just for the record I have no problem with this type of building I know the neighbors are liking it too much I mean it's you agree to work with the Fire official to come to a happy meet him that's fine by me um we agreed to do the with regard to the dryw we already agreed that we would do it whatever is going Tove pip whatever pipe that or the well whatever I have no problem with that would you consider making the field bigger for the SE we're going to design in accordance with the Ocean County Health Department and the state statute but just so you understand this building at at 12,000 uh square feet uh would have a very low flow of approximately 1,200 gallons per day that's equivalent to about one and a half single family homes just for perspective the bed that we have shown on this plan is oversized right now because in in plinary design uh I'm always going to leave extra room so we have Ample Ample room for septic disposal field on this job uh commercial buildings office and retails again it's it's only going to generate by by code 1,200 gallons per day in reality a building like this is probably going to generate 3 to 400 gallons a day it's going to generate half what a single family home generates in theory absolutely you know spot on I I don't argue that point but I do this for a living part time we just set the firehouse 3,000 gallons went in that in their tanks and 4 days you know what caused it ice machine so sometimes simple appliances depending you don't know what's going to be renting these stores and of course situation like I understand where you're coming coming from but unfortunately I can't I can't a to agree to aade criteria that just says make it bigger uh we're going to comply with the statutory requirements for the septic system designed it gets approved by the O County Health Department right you're doing a bare minimum and that's like I said I I ask personally for the betterment of your job so it's not a lot of money but if that's the the position you take that's fine I'm just saying it would be not too bad to make it a little bit bigger please all right uh so we have a consensus to to move along for a vote is that is that we have we do have a consensus all right so I'll just I'll just make the motion that we're going to move along for the vote just so we have on the record because we're going back and forth in in banther so I'm going to make a motion that we are going to go ahead and and the board will make a vote then we have a second to that motion all those in favor I I any opposed can yes all right uh Mr marzo opposed but the uh majority has voted to move forward does anyone wish to I'd like to make a motion considering all the conversations the applicant moving forward I understand Mr Tremor is not happy with other outside agencies regulations but that's what we have to live with I know there's a lot of tone about this town hasn't done something for x amount of years all the time I'm really a little tired of hearing it but an example was in the last master plan there's a requirement for the Eli to be deemed complete and in for uh ification be completed fil that was overruled by law so you cannot overrule these agencies just because we don't like it so the best we can do is live with what they have and make sure it's done right I make a motion to approve I'll second that a motion motion can I have a roll call please Mr Brey yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo no Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Miss Rose yes yes Mr chmer no Mr Sullivan yes thank you I am calling now for a five minute break uh we will be back in five minutes do see you then e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e back to order our next application is block 6304 lot 46 congregation Mikvah of Jackson good evening chairman members of the board Dante aluy on behalf of the applicant as a chairman stated we are here seeking the board's preliminary and final approval site plan approval with regards to 155 South New Prospect Road it's block 6 6304 lot 46 it's located in the NC Zone um the purpose is to construct a 11,000 plus or minus uh one story mikva so I have three individuals to provide testimony tonight I have our engineer who's also going to be wearing his hat as a planner I have our architect for any architectural questions and I do have um traffic so without further Ado I'm going to call my first witness Mr chairman if I might I want to make sure for the purposes of um doing a resolution later I know the applicant submitted revised plans so I I suspect if the board has some new plans from from 10 days ago Mr CLE and I got a chance to review them but didn't get to REI issue reports I want to make sure that they introduce each of the plans with its last revision date okay because otherwise what happens is the plans that we have that were submitted 10 days before the meeting that Mr CLE and I didn't get a chance to issue new reports Point aren't the plans that are referenced in our report so when someone goes to make a record the plans that are listed in our reports are incorrect as to the plans that have been submitted to the public same thing goes with the architectural plans they PL they have different revision dates some of them have the same revision dates we just need to make a clear record by description of what's being offered that we can put in an affirming resolution when we're finished so I apologize for that housekeeping but it was you get something 10 days before and you just want to make sure that the list is correct for the record thank you very good without further Ado I will call our first witness all right uh Mr CLE do you have anything else to do you want to uh put anything on the record it's good all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth truth I do all right pleasee state your name spell your last for the record Eric Halpert h p r t licensed professional engineer and planner in the state of New Jersey and I've testified before this board before the plans were prepared under my supervision all right the board accepts a credentials we accept your credentials welcome before I get into the um actual site I'll discuss operations also of um of the uh proposed mix um are you able to please bring up uh the architect rendering just to have that up on the screen okay thank you um the applicant is proposing to construct an 11,679 Square ft one store story Mikvah regarding the operations of the Mikvah the the building is um comprised of three areas there is the main area is for women to use in the evening there is another area for men and there is another area for um for kitchen utensils and um I'm going to go into the site plan this is just to go over the operations right now Mr how so you're you're uh testifying just as to an engineer or an engineer and a planner engineer and planner engineer and planning yes and when it comes down to the operations you met with the applicant uh and reviewed so you have personal knowledge correct okay the applicant uh wishes that I provide the uh state of operations the applicant is here if the board member board if any board members have further questions regarding operations but I did discuss at length um the operations with the applicant in order to present the statement of oparation testifying as to as to personal knowledge as yes um the um the uh Mikvah is meant to serve primarily um women in the evening the um women's facility consists of four areas it is a 20 4 room uh 24 private changing rooms and there are four um there are four uh bath facilities the way uh the uh operations work is a um the user makes an appointment they have use of a private changing room and then they have the ability to use the bath area the women's hours are from they will vary and they're from Sundown to could be as late as midnight in the summer when Sundown is 8:30 the um facility may be open until approximately midnight the facility has a receptionist one to two receptionists the four bath areas and we have an architect here also to go through the architect plans as well in more detail I'm right now only discussing just uh the operation and um there are four three to four attendant to assist the users um and the um the the hours again we discussed are from Sundown to um to midnight a separate section of the facility is used for men and the applicant will be submitting a a revision to the statement of operations uh the submit statement of operations indicated that the men's use are Friday afternoons and other holiday after other holiday Eaves in the afternoon prior the applicant has indicated that the men have use of the Mikvah additionally in the mornings from dawn to approximately 11:00 a.m. and our traffic expert will be able to speak to any changes that would affect regarding any traffic impacts um those are the men's hours the men's hours um are not by appointment and they're from dawn to approximately 11: a.m. there is a separate smaller section for kitchen utensils that is open also throughout the day several people would be there through out the day for the women the max maximum number of people at night if all 24 rooms are used and then there is also the attendance and the receptionists would be approximately 30 people at night in the evening hours for the men the maximum number they uh the the pl the architect will go over the plans it indicates 12 shower areas there could be 15 men in the morning hours and separate from the men hour separate from the men section the kitchen utensil section would typically have three to four people to clarify the men's hours and the women's hours do not overlap even when when the men are using um as indicated in the statement of operations on a Friday afternoon the Mikvah that section of the Mikvah will be closed actually at approximately a half hour prior to sundown and the women's section will be opened after so there's there's no overlap between the men's and kitchen utensil section and the women's section so the women's um use in the evening hours consists only of the women so the 30o the maximum would be approximately 30 people and is that Monday through Sunday the the the uses are all year where every the mikah is open every day of the year um during the week it will be generally more full because people could drive um on a Friday night and on the Sabbath it is still open however there are going to be fewer people because of the lack of the ability to drive and the board has seen applications with um accessory Mikvah as part of um a Shula application but the mikah is open 365 days a year um with the more intense traffic uses during the week and on the Sabbath it will still be open however um there will be fewer people and there will be nobody driving uh given that it's by appointment at night does that mean you can cap it at 30 or is there a higher cap number you mind no it it can be capped because that is that is the max it it can only hold 24 people perhaps uh it could be capped I would say maybe at 35 on a on there may be three people in the waiting room there generally the appointments are designed in a way that there won't be really anybody waiting it's designed to have people going to use the private changing rooms with nobody else um around but um it could be capped at 35 people for the evening so you would stipulate to that I'm sorry that could part of the part of the approval excellent thank you regarding um deliveries the um and the architect will go through the floor plan there is a there is a laundry area there are no deliveries for um for towels and and um or or any um um towels or other types of laundry there would be deliveries once uh to two times a month of uh General toiletries um there is a section there is um a spot designated for loading and the S plane will be discussed in more detail but um there are uh one to two deliveries expected a month for toiletries um I'm sorry that goes against what it's written in the statement of operations I have now will you be updating that for us yes that is going to be updated yes thank you yes there is a laundry room on the floor plan and there will be no need for delivery of of uh laundry just for clarification the cap of 35 people would be at a time not at night not in total oh no no no we understand that yes it would be expected uh refu collection would be twice a week would be expected to suffice and as indicated earlier the intense use is in the evening the men's hours ends around 11:00 a.m. the kitchen the kitchen utensil section has very few people so generally during the day beyond 11 the facility is generally going to be um will not have anybody there except one or two maintenance uh crew cleaning each day between the uh between the evening at between the evening uses and the refu collection would be able to take place during the day excuse me sir I have one question sir you keep mentioning kitchen utensils and stuff I would like a clarification are you cooking in there or not I will clarify I mean I for sure I just want it for the record thank you for sure there is no cooking there is no food preparation at all this is um just as prescribed by religious law and custom a user of a kitchen utensil will be making use of the mikab beath to immerse the kitchen utensil in the MKV there is no food preparation whatsoever thank you for further education on it yes there um sorry that would conclude the operation the operation statements so now if you could Orient the board to the site itself and describe um the proposed improvements are there any questions regarding operations does anyone have any questions regarding operations yeah one quick question Mr chairman um the I guess the M for for the utensils kitchen utensils what are the hours for that again the hours for that would be from approximately uh 8:00 a.m. until Sunday it would remain open all day until a half hour before Sundown and again the use would that be used during the evening hours when the rest of the mk's being us it will not be used during the evening hours it will you're not going to have traffic coming to bring some of their kitchen utensils for that mik during the night I'm sorry could you ask that you're not going to have people coming to bring their kitchen wear during the night for that MFA correct okay that part of that part of the facility will be will not be able to be used in the evening Mr chairman yeah yes um so the principal use of of the building is for the Mikvah um so anytime we see a kitchen we say can this facility be rented out for a use other than the Mikvah associated with the kitchen it cannot be rented out there is no there is no kitchen facility at all proposed as part of this um as part of this Mi Mr chairman thank you do you think maybe the applicant could just explain the process um there is no kitchens coming to the mikah right okay so to clarify when I say kitchen utensils okay when I say kitchen utensils what I mean is somebody bought a new set of dishes and as prescribed by Jewish law and custom there is a requirement to take those utensils without any food in it they're brand new bring them to this part this facility place them in the water and remove them is there a time frame on that is there some part of religious law that says it can't be done at night or is that just how this has to in terms of operations in order to keep the various PE parts of the facility separate the applicant wishes to have the kitchen utensil section and the men's section closed prior to the women's use so it is not per se a law it is um how the applicant wishes to operate the facility thank cultural custom cultural custom well we do appreciate the education and uh we we do enjoy learning about these things so thank you so and and just I think we're kind of dancing around the issue so it's not going to be used as a banquet hall or wedding hall or anything like that there's going to be there's no there's no right or Swim Club or anything like the YMCA correct this is purely a religious bath facility and I am discussing right now operations we do have an architect here who will go through the floor plan um who will go through the floor plan and it will be and there is no there is no place for um strictly just to to Mika use this is strictly a Mika use is um what the applicant is seeking approval from the board for anybody else have any further questions from the board uh our professionals um do you have move on to engineering so we're going to touch on engine engineering now yeah right okay I'll go through the side plane can you bring up the exhibit um the first page showing the aerial the um the board is looking at the um aerial an aerial view of the site the site is located on the northeasterly side of South New Prospect Road on on the corner of Wood Lane the site currently we're going to mark this as exhibit A1 and what date is it this is an exhibit it was dated 611 2024 this is exhibit A1 the aerial the site currently has an improved commercial dentist office with driveways both on South New Prospect and on Woodlane Road the applicant is seeking to demolish all existing improvements and construct the proposed Mikvah with Associated site improvements before getting on to the site I think um the board would be interested in um as per the review letters and just to discuss any constraints on the roadways outward going going into the site the site is bounded by a County Road South New Prospect Road and Woodlane Road the project has been um submitted to the um County and um has received the preliminary approval with recommendations and the board is also aware of an upcoming application across the street I I'm think the board would be interested in knowing how this project fits into upcoming roadway improvements so just to talk from outside inward I think um is is how I'll proceed this facility is on South New Prospect at a section where the roadway is generally at the county roadway desired section um ocean county is going to be constructing improvements along South New Prospect Road I did reach out to them for a construction date they weren't able to supply me with a construction date the South New Prospect roadway improvements will result in generally will result in a thre Lane desired three lane three traveled Lanes with one lane in each Direction and a middle Lane for turning Lanes when this site plan was being prepared we had a pre-application meeting with the county so we don't have any surprises as we go through resolution compliance or at a later point and at this point the application has actually been submitted to the county and we have received letters from the county um with minimal recommendations the recommendations specifically are there are certain right of-way dedication required as indicated on the site plans and we'll go through the site plan additionally as part of the South New Prospect Ocean County roadway Improvement reconstruction program there will be um improvements to the traffic lights and that would require coordination of our project with their proposed improvements to ensure with to ensure that there is room for the foundation poles of the traffic lights there is a there they are requiring a larger curb return and that will also require certain um RightWay dedication they refer to it as a a clip in the corner and we'll go through the the roadway but in General Ocean County did not have many comments regarding our project as the frontage is generally at the pavement width that they are looking for can you um pull up the um the submitted site plan and we'll make sure to refer to the dates on the site [Music] plan you go um could you go to the site plan [Music] um to the second sheet the existing conditions sheets this is called 150 5 South New Prospect plan set one is how the township website has the plan has the site plan titled thank you could you go to the second sheet thank you this is the existing conditions and demolition plan with date of 32924 revision date of 722 2024 added Monument signage this is just I just want to have the board see that the site is and the board is presumably aware of the constructed improvements that presently exist on the site there are driveways on both uh South New Prospect and Wood Lane there's parking there is a commercial facility there is there are storm water facilities a conveyance system that ties into an existing storm water system within the roadway there is a sign and um this is of note that sign is approximately is under 17 ft to the right of way the existing sign this is the existing conditions the existing conditions um plan can you go please to the next sheet which is the site plan this is this site plan is dated 3292 2024 with the latest revision date 722 2024 added Monument signage to discuss to go through the site the applicant is essentially proposing to reconstruct the driveways in essentially the uh same spot two driveways with full access full circulation around the building for fire access with parking on three sides of the building two-way access on the three sides a oneway fire lane in as the board is viewing it in the rear of the building on the southern side of the building there is a refuge collection area directly off of the circulation drive a loading area and additionally the applicant wishes to install a generator a standard standby generator in order to make sure that the facility is running even in the instance of a power outage there are EV parking spaces in indicated and the Fire official would like those moved and they could be moved the facil Could you um zoom in a little bit uh more to the lower Porsche to the to the actual site plan the applicant is proposing um site ID signs on both entrances which the ordinance allows the applicant is Seeking a variance from maintaining the proper the the distance required and is proposing a site the site ID sign at 17.8 ft from the RightWay line on South New Prospect and 20 ft from the RightWay line on Wood Lane Road the various indentations in the building are spots where there are doorways there are doorways throughout um throughout the build through around the entire perimeter of the building and this gives the ability of the user access directly from their parking spot without needing to walk across the park walk across the entire parking lot privacy is something that the applicant desires to provide the users of facility and therefore it is beneficial to have the parking located near various entrances in order to minimize the walking as is as is uh seen on the site plane the two access drives are not directly opposite the building and that also gives the ability to maintain the Privacy as the Landscaping will be able to um buffer and Screen the users from the roadway can you go to the the next page this is the grading drainage and utility plan dated 329 2024 revision date 722 2024 in addition to the parking lot improvements the applicant is proposing a storm water management uh Basin in order to comply with the ngd and the township ordinance and ultimately it will tie into the same roadway storm water system that the current facility is tying into can you go to the landscape plan which is another um two sheets one more sheet I'm sorry the plan is dated 329 2024 revision date of 722 2024 added Monument signage the applicant is proposing Landscaping along the perimeter of the property and we will go through the review comments and the applicant will comply with providing the necessary buffers um required by the ordinance and we'll go through in detail the um review comments can you go to the detail sheet construction details two more sheets I'm sorry after this one can you zoom into the side ID sign which is over here the applicant this is the construction detail sheet dated 329 2024 revision date of 722 2024 added Monument signage the applicant is proposing a site ID sign the size and the height do comply with the ordinance however the proximity to the right of way does not comply the applicant is Seeking a variance and I will get into the justification for that as we go through the review letters I will point out that the facility as indicated earlier is primarily being used in the evening hours and there is a greater need for the site ID to be visible from the roadway um because it is because the um site is being used after Dark um we would request that you have the street number also on the sign of the building so the people know the address yeah on the side ID yeah correct yes I understand yes yeah the applicant is will will will do that okay I'll go through the uh review letters going through the uh board Engineers letter we have not received um any comments from the environmental commission okay okay thank you this was submitted okay thank you so we'll stipulate for the record that the environmental commissioner has stated that you have been approved by for your environmental in terms of utilities the facil the plans have been submitted to the MUA and have received the preliminary approval for the connection for both water and um sewer and that would be a Woodlane Road is where the applicant will be connecting um for the both public for the water and the sewer and the plan has been approved by the MUA operations were discussed we do have our traffic expert but just again briefly to discuss to touch on what the traffic safety Bureau is recommending regarding the striping so Ocean County has is aware both of this has been a has been aware for a while because we had prea meetings with them a while ago um they've been aware of this project and an upcoming project across the streets and they are requiring the Bureau of traffic safety is requesting a left turn lane from South New Prospect onto Wood Lane and that is something that ocean county is requiring of the project across the streets all ready and so it will be done I want to separate out I'm only mentioning that project because the two projects obviously share the same roadway and to address the comment so Ocean County has received both applications and has provided their approvals with recommendations for both and the project across the street certainly has more um intensive requirements regarding the traffic light which um regarding the traffic light and specifically the traffic buau safety uh the the the traffic safety Bureau had a um has a recommendation for a left turn lane and that is something that the project across the street will be required to do so this applicant will will not be providing that and traffic we have our traffic expert will discuss the acceleration Lane deceleration ation Lane again Ocean County has provided their recommendation of approval and they have not required that but I will let the traffic expert speak to that in detail if you want to put the exhibit up that speaks to all that just so we can um can you um go to the site plan of this the third sheet of this uh plan set the site plan uh so um the Bureau of traffic safety is recommending a left turn lane off of wood lane and this is a match line over here this is the continuation of South New Prospect northward down beneath the page and as indicated in the notes these are part of the the striping recommendations based on a county plan that was provided to the client to the applicant um as part of this project and the project across the street as part of their South New Prospect roadway improvements but again that striping is part of the recommendation for the project across the streets and the the board members would be interested in the the Bureau of traffic safety discussed the traffic light and again to keep the two pro there are two separate projects but the board members would be interested in knowing the status of the recommendations that the county has regarding the traffic lights so the county it's the the county will be proposing traffic light upgrades as part of their own roadway Improvement program separate from this project or any other project as part of the project across the street which involves an unsignalized driveway access the county of course is requiring that that applicant to provide a fourth leg for the driveway across the streets I'm only mentioning that because the Bureau of traffic safety had a comment regarding the traffic signaling and I'm sure the board members are interested in knowing the status of what the county is recommending regarding the traffic signal but again that is something being required and due to a separate project across the street that is sharing our same roadway our project the county had minimal um comments uh because our project has um the desired pavement with and is not being affected is not affecting the traffic signal except for certain placements that will be required from um that the applicant will be required to coordinate with the county Mr Halper and if you would we're using the word project over and over and over let us sit on a great secret what's across the street intended for the other for the other project yes I I I I I believe it's beneficial to discuss it in as much as the you declare what it is we in suspense uh what kind of building is it the project across the street is a proposed place of worship that is awesome in front of the board at the next application it's I didn't mean to make it sound suspenseful project project project I'm sorry all right I thought maybe we were getting another crowers no it is the project it is the upcoming place of worship application that the board will be hearing shortly sir I have one question see I talk about 146 on the other side and stuff um I know it's under County control and they will control both in the whole highway what if the other applicant didn't do what they want with that left turn lane is that going to be held up to you let's say they don't get approved or they walk away from the application would your applicant be taking over that part of the lanes that the county wants to do our applicant will be required to comply with Ocean County requirements that's right thank you so if Ocean County request if Ocean County will require that of the applicant the applicant will do that if Ocean County will not require that then the applicant will not right which you're going to have to vet out doing resolution compliance anyway but if the county comes back and requests your Prat a share then you're going to have to comply yes regarding um going through the board Engineers letter it is not anticipated that there will be significant um soil removal greater than 1,000 cubic yards um there is no basement proposed the Mikvah there are certain sections where there is some C but however um the applicant does not anticipate exceeding uh soil removal of a th000 cubic yards and would not require a separate soil removal permit we have an architect over here to go through the floor plans the applicant um will comply with the requirements of buffering and will um revise the landscape plan to comply with the review comments and with the ordinance um to provide the required buffering along the roadway and along the residential property that is to the that is to the um Northeast of the pro of the property the applicant is able to comply with the technical revisions with in terms of the there is one Island that the applicant will not be able to as proposed will not be able to provide the full 10- foot width on the island um however all other landscaping and buffering recommendations from the board Engineers letter the applicant will comply with and will provide the plantings as per the ordinance and revise the plans I'll discuss the um VAR the the signs um after going through the um board plannner letter besides signs um there was a comment regarding the proximity of the um 244 197 J to a3c that no driveway shall be located less than 10 ft from the side property line and the access Drive is located closer the applicant is Seeking a design waiver noting that the existing driveway is in the same spot the proposed driveway improves slightly over the existing driveway and the adjacent lot is a commercial lot I do believe a design waiver is Justified it the access drive does come to 4 feet the parking area the parking the circulation drive along the rear of the building is at 4T the ordinance requires 3 ft parking distance um a foot distance between the parking area and the adjacent lot and the applicant is complying with that when it's a commercial lot the V the waiver is needed for the access drive and again it's an existing condition the app applicant is requesting a waiver and I believe a waiver is Justified it is beneficial to keep the access drive as far from the intersection as practicable and to bring and therefore it is sensible to Grant the waiver and allow for the access Drive closer to the property line than the ordinance is requiring our traffic expert will go through other traffic comments there was a comment regarding the there is a loading area to comply with the ordinance the loading area is sub shall be revised to 12 by 35 the applicant is able to revise the plans and provide a 12x 35 um loading area there are various Landscaping recommend Landscaping comments and the applicant will comply with the ordinance and with the Landscaping comments and provide buffering the constructed improvements the building is closer to South New Prospect away from the residential area the storm water basin is in this area however a 10-ft buffer as required by the ordinance is shall be provided with the required screening to go through um this to discuss the signage the applicant is seeking several variances due to the signage and just and to explain the purposes of the different signs um and the reasoning on the site plan the applicant is showing site ID signs on a corner lock the ordinance allows for side ID signs at each entrance as mentioned earlier the primary use is in the evening is after hours there are buffering requirements and I believe it is beneficial to have the site ID sign a little closer than required noting that the current site ID sign is also um too close it is um under 17 de Feats um as depicted on the existing conditions plan and um before getting into the the actual justification just the reason why the applicant would like the um site ID sign closer to the roadway is in order to provide direction to the users to identify the site um in the evening um can you go to um the PDF titled site signage uh there's a PDF file titled signage resubmission Anthony thank you can you go to sheet two in addition to the site ID signage um distance deficiency the applicant is also seeking uh wall signs the ordinance allows for one wall sign and the applicant is seeking five wall signs um there are three wall signs depicted on this sheet which is the view of uh which is on South New aspect can you go to the next sheet and this is the wood lane road side of the building and there are two additional sight signs on that side of the building these uh the ordinance allows only for one wall sign generally and a commercial building more than one wall sign the intent over the the ordinance would be too much clutter over here these wall signs as indicated in the just the standard text donor building name these are not meant to um advertise anything this facility is a non for-profit facility there is a minimal fee being paid in order to um maintain in order for for uh for for upkeep this is a non for-profit the various signs are not advertising anything they are as the words indicate they are meant for dedications for donors this is a um a a community Venture and providing the sight signage the dedications is uh perpetuates the donation perpetuates uh the Legacy and the intent of the wall signs are meant as sort of the Finish to the building that it was a community um effort it is a variance because it is greater than one wall sign but I do believe it is not the typical wall signs advertising and um the Clutter it is um the Clutter of the various of various um facilities located in a commercial building that would want to have different signs stating what they are is not present this is one facility um with dedications Mr pres on the sign sir um yes are they like engraved in the wall how are they lit I mean they going to be loud I just dedication but a little clarification on how they're going to look the public and how they're illuminated and we do we do have the architect here we'll go through they are not lit the wall signs are not lit no and um they will be um they they will be um laser cut aluminum it will blend with the building I will let the architect go into more detail regarding the wall sign thank you but you have an architect right we have an architect yes we have an AR praise God all right are there any other comments in the letter that uh you would like to address specifically or are there a comment or most of the comments in the Remington in verdict uh letter acceptable acceptable and I will go through the um Fire review comment this was submitted to the Fire official before we jump to that I just want to point out um there's a recommendation with regards to solar um proposing solar at the time at this time but the property will be solar ready Mr chairman sidewalks sidewalks like to see sidewalks there are the site um if Could you um pull up the site plan if they're present and you're going to maintain them yes that's an awesome answer yes there are sidewalks Community sidewalks yes would the applicant be amable to a larger size sidewalk that way with with the understanding not for the purposes of this project sole use just a little wider for carriages or whatnot do we know how wide the sidewalks are now they're usually three but being it's a pedestrian Community I believe um I could Mr R as indicated on the planes the um the sidewalk is already the sidewalk is just beyond um the right of way there does appear to be an easement required um I don't see why there should I could measure I will measure how wi the sidewalk is so we could know what numbers were discussed So within the scope of construction for your your project you're not removing the sidewalk except for the entrances they're existing correct right these are existing so if they're existing I'll I'll withdraw unless you see different Mr I'm just concerned you know for you know the inclusion of the house apprach Street you're going to see some traffic but given these are existing sidewalks we also we also don't want to get into the issue of there may be an NJ do right away so so that may be what's yeah the current sidewalk is four feet is slightly over four feet I think that's beautiful and the the applicant is essentially reconstructing the driveways where they are and is not ripping up any sidewalk except at the curb return thank you the applicant will comply with the recommendations of the Forester of the tree specialist and the landscape plans will be revised to comply with the ordinance and with the comments regarding species buffering areas and Shay trees the Fire official has reviewed the plan and has approved the circulation of course there are recommendations regarding knoxbox um the applicant will be able to comply with all the recommendations of the Fire official he is recommending the EV spots as always be located away from the building in case of a fire and the applicant will be able to comply with the recommendations of the Fire official but in the main the circulation provided is to is is um to the approval of the Fire official remote shut off too right I'm sorry remote shut offs a cut off for the E yes so regarding the the justification so regarding the justification for the variances for the sight signage the V the applicant is seeking several variances as indicated in the review letters the monument is closer than 25 ft from the row from the right of way there is more than one wall sign proposed and there is greater than 80 square feet of wall sign proposed these are accessory um the site ID and the wall signs are accessory the use over here is the use over here promotes the in order to in order to be able to be granted the um variance being requested the applicant is seeking what is known as a C1 variance a flexible variance it has to be demonstrated that the purpose of the zoning is being furthered by the granting of the variance without a substantial detriment to the zoning variance over here the purpose of the zoning is being is being um furthered this is namely to encourage Municipal action to guide the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner which will promote the public health safety morals and general welfare the items being requested as part of the variant are accessory and are a a part of the larger application which whose use provides the same and there is no substantial detriment the wall signs are on the wall there is no substantial detriment to the to the zoning ordinance to the public good and in order to meet the negative criteria it has to be established that it does not substantially imper the intent and the purpose of the of the zone and there is no substantial detriment to the public good and that could be satisfied by demonstrating that any detriment to the public good resulting from the variance proposal will be outweighed by the benefits as discussed there are benefits um to providing and to granting the variant to providing the wall signs as sort of the Finish to the building the site ID signs there is a benefit in providing the ability for the user to identify the site even in the evening and that outweighs any detriment to the public good and therefore there is no substantial detriment to the public good and it does not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and I believe the board members would be justified in granting the variance they are not required to Grant the the variance I believe it is Justified it is uh uh a small it is it is not it is a Dem Minimus uh variance regarding the design waiver there is the design waiver that is being requested regarding the proximity of the access drive to the side property to the property line as discussed earlier and I do believe that is Justified that is an existing condition and it is beneficial especially to keep the access drive away from the intersection the Landscaping recommendations um and compliance with the ordinance is something the applicant is able to do and is not seeking um any waivers except from the requirement of the 10 foot Island width at all places however the applicant will provide 10 foot as practicable and we identify only one spot as of only one spot that the applicant is seeking to have an island which is under 10 ft does that conclude your that would conclude my testimon um gentlemen uh do you have any um uh just just a couple um and I'll reference my June 28th 2024 uh review letter um item a talks about zoning and no variance relief is required but can the applicant um confirm that the um specific section or requirements of 24447 Point G will be met that relates to um Standalone uh MCAS yes the the applicant is able to meet um the building coverage the lot coverage the parking setback and shall provide the screening required and the circulation Drive um over here in this instance we have both a residential property and a commercial property on the two sides and the circulation Drive adjacent to the commercial property is at 4 feet where uh 3 feet is required thank you and as far as the building signs and the dedication goes can you give me an idea of what when it says dedication but what could typically be the wording dedicated by somebody or yeah it it'll say donor it'll say donor name um could you pull up this site um I believe it um I believe there are some words on the site signage it says donor so donor name dedicated in memory dedicated in memory of a loved one dedicated in memory of so and so and same type wording for where it says just dedication yes they all will be similar in in the sense that it will say dedicated by and in memory of okay um that's all for now thank you Mr Peters thank you Mr chairman um I need to point out to the board that in our report dated July 26th of this year um we make reference to a a newly enacted ordinance 3123 um because there's relief being requested from it um I want to question the board that ordinance 3123 um was a result of a great amount of effort um between property owners um elected officials and the board to put together standards um for the municipality going forward and well I don't take any exception to the applicants request uh testimony regarding the variances um I think there needs to be a little more in terms of proof to go and take an ordinance that was quite frankly a Year's worth of work and it's been on the book since December of last year and ask for the intensity of variances that are being requested for this application these ordinances were written for mikas so this isn't a surprise to anyone so I would like to take a few minutes just to go through it ask the engineer and planner a couple of questions and see if we can't work through some of these so that you understand the comments that are in our report and the testimony um that the witness is given um Mr Halper you have a copy of our report July 26 2024 report yes on page eight under Landscaping F2 refers to our new ordinance requiring a parking setback of at least 15 ft from a street being screened from adjacent right of ways and that screening to include either a hedro or closely grouped cluster of plantings that shall be maintained at a height of no less than 20 in and no greater than 30 in could you describe what's being proposed along Wood Lane Road in South New Prospect Road the current plans indicate the arbor VI and the applicant is going to revise the plans in order to comply um with the ordinance to provide the um a hedge row 20 in to 30 in the applicant is able to do that so the record is clear you're going to comply with that requirement yes okay um comment F3 requires a 6-ft fence or natural vegetative buffer a minimum of 10 ft in width along all parking circulation drives and structures adjacent to residential zones the Northerly property lines adjacent to a residential Zone plans currently proposed nine Arbor vies for a distance of 175 ft assuming a mature width of 3 ft we provided a total of 27 ft of buffer for 175 FT Property Line can you comment on that please the plans shall be revised and there is sufficient width to provide the buffer and yes the applicant is going to provide the Landscaping recommend uh as per the ordinance so you going to comply with that section yes the applicant intends to fully comply there is room on on on that side thank you as it relates to the sign variances um while signs weren't specifically renumerated in the new ordinance um you've indicated that the maximum number of signs permitted is one and we're proposing five is that correct yes so one on so this is a corner lot you have two frontages so to the board a reasonable person would say it's one along a frontage so you want to be able to see what the building is from each side so I would think that when the board deliberates the request for the variant you would say it's one sign for per Frontage so I think they would be from a planning perspective entitled to two for this particular project U Mr hoard as it relates to the signed setbacks um I I heard you say that you wanted to either keep the distances that we out there now or make sure that you could see them I would agree with your first comment about well we have them there now understanding that these signs have probably been there for a while and we haven't widened the right of way in a while and they start getting a little closer to the street but respectfully I don't think there's anything a sight perspective that would stop anyone from seeing these signs on either Street correct not a hedge row there's not a big stand of trees the site to the South's a parking lot the site to the the along Wood Lane um there are existing trees which um again um as which uh the forest May recommend keeping there are um along between our property and the adjacent property I guess before I would recommend to the board the grant of the variants I want to see something that says why 25 ft would be such a hardship it's 5 feet on one side and seven and 7 and A4 feet on another side um so I'll leave that to the board members to sort of chew over in your deliberations um and lastly as it relates to the the sign area um we have a sign ordinance it's been on the books for some time um which permits 80 Square F feet of sign space 15% of the building facade or 80 Square ft respectfully this sign package is north of 280 ft it's 3 and a half times what's permitted um I don't take any exception to Mr halpert's testimony as to why they want to do it simply want to know why they can't come more into compliance with the 80 Square ft that is permitted so if the board's heard testimony sufficient for those purposes and we take no exception to the board acting in affirmative on the variance relief but we did want to point out that a as it relates to the design standards for citing a mikah on a on a particular parcel of land there are standards that were put in place that were not done in a vacuum that quite frankly should be followed as greatly as possible and relief should be given only when absolutely necessary this isn't an ordinance that's been sitting around since 1970 that doesn't apply in this day and age this ordinance was written and adopted last year at this point that's all I have in respect with respect to the witness's testimony regarding the planning variances thank you Mr chairman just a quick question that I could just um jump off with Mr Peters with is talking about so you I see over here I think we counted five signs are they all the same sign like it says the word I see the word Jackson mikah it's GNA say that five times or is each one a separate dedication could you explain why you need five signs really the Jackson MFA that you just referred to was the site ID sign right so I see multiple signs some in Hebrew and obviously some in English over here um do they all mean the same thing are they different ways of saying different angles of the building or is it different dedications for different the the wall signs are um there is one sign that is identifying the building on the wall in Hebrew letters is um this sign alone on South New Prospect the other four signs are dedications so you're saying the one in the middle would most likely be the name of the of the Mikvah the one in the middle is the name of is is the name is is identifying on the wall is the name of the Mikvah in Hebrew and and is that pretty standard to to for a religious institution to write it in Hebrew that would be that sign complies strictly there is one sign that is allowed and that sign okay and and the other four are just and what are the other four then the other four signs are still maintaining the 80 square feet but cumulatively they arrive they are greater than 80 Square fet obviously and they are meant to be dedication sign so I I think what he's trying to get at is they're not all all five aren't saying the same thing the word Jackson mck each of them are saying a different message I'm assum each sign is a dedication by a different donor to provide the ability for the Mikvah um for the applicants to provide some purpose provide some recognition to different donors the intent is right so I'm really just going off with Mr Peters from the intent of the ordinance that was passed in I think it was December is and and I think Mr Shay I think you know where I'm going here also is each sign serves a different purpose is that is that what you're testifying to well first I don't believe the signs were um actually um renewed the the sign this is the this is the standard sign ordinance and um each sign is serving a purpose of dedication to a different a different um donor so I I think what we're trying to get at is that like you go to a library right and and Library will have you know this family dedicated to East Wing this family dedicated to West Wing this dedicated to North wi yes so it's an easier way of soliciting funds for the nonprofit it certainly is an easier way of soliciting funds but I would also say that uh in the same sense that uh you know there are in the same sense that a building could have finishes pieces that aren't direct use this is sort of um this is perpetuating the uh the Dead the the uh the donation and perpetuating um recognizing what the donor has done and is a sensible is is is a part of a building such as this that's um being built from Community funds okay thank you right each one's going to be unique each one's going to be different because each one's going to be from a different donor yes unless one donor donates all [Laughter] five Mr reker is it socially acceptable in your culture if you will to have the dedication signs inside the lobby of each entrance in the in the alternative I I know this is your desire but is it socially acceptable the answer is it certainly is socially acceptable yes um this is something the applicant is Desiring to do and something sensible it is certainly socially acceptable to have them in it would not have the same it would not carry the same you know recognition having it inside as outside so the alternative if the if the board didn't agree with you that you could find a means to to accomplish the same within the in the lobby or something like that the applicant is Seeking a variance that the board is not this is a variant applicant is seeking it would if it would be in the if it would be inside the building it would also be a dedication it wouldn't be the same as what the applicant would be seeking and it wouldn't provide the same uh flourish because there has been extensive work between everybody involved to begin the standards and you know forgive me I may be incorrect but this is the first one and you know we're setting the tempo and the pace and the look so what happens here happen elsewhere all right all right um does anyone else from the board have any other questions for this witness all right would you uh bring forward your next witness yes I'm going to have our architect come up and provide testimony and that'll also help paint a better picture of what those signs are going to look like and how what what how they'll bring the a the site itself together can I just ask one more question just on the science for one second again we we said in a testimony before was these are not going to be lit up signs there's not going to be illuminated multiple colors and these are going to be either carved out or letters on the building was that what the testimony before for Mr help that's that's what our engineer testified to and we also have our architect okay put a little bit more detail would there be any spotlights on them or anything like that let's have them sworn in first and then y all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth and nothing about the truth yes I do right please state your name and spell your last for the record nap gut G all right and your credentials I'm a licensed architect New Jersey and multiple other states I'm the principal of got van LLC which is a liquid based architectural firm are my masters in architecture from NJIT I have testified before the Jackson board and planning board and other municipalities these drawings are prepared my office under my supervision do you accept this qualification we accept uh your qualification sir thank you chairman thank you uh so uh the board was asking before you delve into the structure itself can you please describe the type of signs and the materials that are going to be utilized yes so as Ellie stated they're going to be laser cut aluminum it's going to be a quarter inch uh thick each Lea um it will be an appropriate and complimentary colors to the facade sorry could you speak up a little bit more I apologize I can't hear you though sure it'll be a quarter inch laser cut aluminum that will be with complimentary colors to the facade now besides all that Ellie has spoke about as far as the dedication there are three parts of this building there's the lady the women's the men's and the utensils and as just as the the sign on the street would be a way of finding the building the three separate components but also need signage as as it relates to the left right and and the L's entrance on Wood Lane so those signs besides dedication will also serve to for letting people know which part of the building they're they're arriving to um another consideration is that the bulk of this project is the woman's Mikvah which is more private in nature thus has minimal windows so the facade was challenging to get that to look right with it shouldn't look like a jail or something so we felt that the signage if done appropriate would complement the facade and not just look like a bunch of screaming letters on the facade Mr chairman Mr Breen maybe I'm alone on this I don't know um I'm trying to look at the intent of what I'm envisioning a sign as advertising lit up is what I'm envisioning the intent was to prevent that from happening these have no lights on them or nothing and they're for a very specific reason financing the place um I because that be part of the hardship because that's to help Finance it so I'm a little torn that there be being compared to a billboard sign or so many square feet around the building spread out and the the word sign that you're looking for a 7-Eleven or a shoe store or something it's nothing like that it's more of a separate enery of a dedication so I I really in my mind I'm not looking in a sign more of as a dedication and a purpose to help establish the building and the workings of it thank you thank you and all also is your is it your testimony that each dedication would basically Point people to what is going on in that section of the building it would it would kind of it would be like let's woman's entrance or woman's Wing dedicated by X andx in memory of okay so there would be Dual Purpose yeah so there' be a sign for the men's section a sign for the women's section and one of the dedications would be for the utensils I guess correct okay thank you and and to mention again they will not be backlit at night it would probably not be visible but by day you would you would see it and once you pull up into site you would see it okay now if you could describe the structure itself sure materials being utilized so this project consists of new construction single story slab on grain Mikvah it's a commercial business use this Mikvah consists of three separate parts the could you uh if you mind bringing up the architectural set I believe it's A3 A2 I'm sorry the architectural set there's one more file it's not up there there's a separate file that's not open here the architecture [Music] set 2325 6156 zoning set with a this is the correct one be A2 thank you this is dated which date this didn't change since it was submitted so this is dated should be 7724 yes okay one more time this project consists of a new constru instruction single story slab on gr mikah which is a commercial business use the mikah consists of three parts the bulk of it is a woman's mikah which contains 24 prep rooms four of those will be upgraded Bridal Suites and three of them will have private entrances the code required handicaps rooms were provided for there are four immersion P pools an Associated pitch which contains rainwater funnel from The Collection area on the roofs and well Waters collected from on-site Welles each of these four Mikvah or pools will service six of those rooms the main entrance and exits to the wom's Mikvah are from Wood Lane on the bottom over there this leads you into the entrance and exit vestibules there's separate entrance and ex exit vestibules beyond that is a reception room after that is the waiting room public bathroom and attendant Lounge after that is followed by a supply room now each of these core functions have access to both the left and right Wings there are multiple additional exits at the rear and corners of the building there is an additional back office and laundry room that's up on the top right and mechanical room and and storage room the function OCC the functional occupant load of this portion will be one woman per prep room plus a handful of employees the second portion is a men's Mikvah with entrance and exit on the bottom right facing south New Prospect Road this contains a large vestibule changing area a shower area with 12 showers and the Mikvah the men's Mel like what has access to the laundry room and utility space the occupant load of this portion is 29 and per IBC only one exit is required for the men's Mikvah the third portion is the K Mika which is used for the purification of utensils the entrance and exit is on the top right corner facing South Prospect it is a single room containing County area with sinks in an above ground greenwater pit the women's wif will be by appointment only with the recipient receiving a code that they will use to gain access into the building they were will likewise be 24-hour security cameras that will be monitored by the on-site staff during operational hours the IBC square footage of the first floor is 11,567 point3 the total square footage of the outside dimensions including the covered entrances would be 12,145 sare ft as per the zoning code the sailing height will be 10 ft with the exception of the lobby and over the Mikvah areas which will be slightly higher which will be cut out of the trusses the height of the building till the top of the roof deck will be 13 ft and that would be 17.75 to the top of the uppermost parapet the exterior materials will be comprised of primarily light colored stacco The Columns will be fluted composite wood panels and they will be dark large tiles on the main entrance and lighter colored stack stones on the base and wrapping the pl uh that concludes my testimony thank you uh gentlemen do you have any questions for this um just a question um to collect rainwater did you say is that roof correct there are areas on the roof if we could pull up the next sheet I I believe it is so there's three there's four collection areas one to the left that's for the two Pits on the left side of the women's and then the center one is for the two Pits on the right side and then there's a separate collection area for the men's Mikvah on the top right and a separate one for the utensil mikah so it's going to be Ser the building itself will be serviced by public water correct so this is but the public water isn't part of the bathing facilities so yeah so each of the pits that are used for actual imersion that is that is St that is that is not Ram water that is regular tap water the other pits if we could go back to A2 so the each each one of those group of three have two other pits that are not accessible to the user those are comprised of rainwater and well water and that rain water is collected from the roof and it's connected to the imersion pit with a pipe and that connects the TU but the Baer does not use that water that that water is drained well it comes what's the purpose of the water the the purpose of the water is that the actual purification is is really it's really happening with the rainwater now no one wants to use that rain water they want to use clean water so the actual pit is is is filtered clean water and it's connected via pipe to the rainwater Because the actual requirement is to bathe in rain water has the MUA weighed in on accepting rain water into their um sewer system well it kind of stays separate it's a it collects on the roof and it collects there's a basin inside that collects that rainwater and it just stays in that collection pit it's a Concrete pit it collects that rain water and it's connected through a pipe and it just touches the actual pit that is clean water okay and that pit doesn't get drained at any time it doesn't get drained okay what happens if it doesn't rain well it could take a while to fill up there there it's I guess a complex system that bundel the water and there's a stuffer there's a stopper on that on that on that drainage on that collection area on the roof and as soon as they accumulate water they just close it up and eventually it evaporates over time and then they refill it and they just keep a minimum of roughly 200 gallons in that pool and and then they just close up that that that that collection area on the roof and it just sits in that pool okay thank you if I Mr chairman is there a minimum of how much rain water you need yes it's roughly like 200 gallons that are needed and you obviously I assume keep extra so when the water evaporates correct there's a big um you can see it on on the on the let's say on the left side so that that that area over there that's a overground large Basin of concrete and the water will they'll store extra water there so if let's say we have a period of time when there's no water and we need it we have we can back up on that storage and this requirement to have rain water is for all three mukas correct so hence the four different collection areas for the four for the four different pits okay I might be a little confused where does the rest of the rain collection go after that tank is sealed well they just close up the there's a pipe that leads from The Collection area and it goes straight into that into that collection pit and as soon as they have enough water they just close it up and then it drains as as if so that's that's my question where's it going after it's you reach your capacity is that just flowing in the parking lot no it it it ties into the regular drainage on the roof which will which will lead you know to the storm system okay so it goes into the sewer yeah no different than than than any other roof so I mean that was what I was wondering after the question was asked where does it go so does mu way know that the storm water is going into their storm soon well it goes into the Basin right wh right that's my I don't see any Basin or where it's I'm a little confused on where it goes without testifying for the applicant I I believe what you're saying is you're collecting the the rain water off the roof for your purpose period stop oh so that's when you've reached your limit for the water that you're collecting it just acts like a normal roof corre your leaders tie into the drainage basin the same as your e inlets in your parking lot done deal correct yeah I guess to be clear that it's not a raised roof it's it's literally just a cornered off area on the roof that's that's smooth has its laws what what it needs but it's no different than any other roof all he's doing is literally thiing the rain water off the roof you're stealing the rain water from we're making good use of the rain water is there any further questions for this applicant uh hold on one second I just would like to make an announcement um block 1204 lot 34 922 heis LLC will have to be moved to another night as we are getting very close to the time limit of this meeting um there will be no need for um re re notice Reen noticing on that um do we have schedule uh openings for this application take a look at the agenda and you can see what we have in the future um the next meeting it looks like we already have three items on I mean if you wanted to carry it to there and see if we get to it carry to when do you want to carry it to the next meeting and see if I mean it'll be fourth it there too much on I I agree it's too much um Mr chairman I think the applicant's attorney Mr Jennings is present um we could um and we could put it on and see if we see if we get to it that or we have um see the only thing is that night is Chandler I know and we don't know how long that's going to we could try and if not we can move we have to carry it again or we could move it maybe to September 23rd there's you're going to be you're going to be here anyway do you want it to for next meeting I know I know would you would you be uh available for the September 23rd meeting she yes you're here anyway yeah both of them are yours so are you agreeable to have this move to September 23rd without Reen notice yes all right so do I need a proclamation from the board make a motion I'll make a motion to move to I will make a motion to move to September 23rd all all those in favor I thank you thank you all right okay and now Mr marzo Mr Peters I wanted to ask you about the um intent for that ordinance that was passed in December of last year what was the you said a lot of work went into that and I'm just curious um about that if you could elaborate on that a little bit before I ask my question the ordinance was done at the request of the governing body it was the result of some litigation that I don't know the details of because I'm not the town attorney or the board attorney or the town's Rupa attorney um but as you can see if you've ever looked through ordinance 31-23 it revises standards in multiple zones throughout the town and it speaks to schools houses of worships and mikas and so there were design standards that were specific to uses in specific zones that's why I just wanted to draw the board's attention that there was a point in time very recent very recently where the town took a look at existing development patterns um the extent of undeveloped lands within the municipality and worked with interested parties to go through and create new design standards for these new upand cominging uses that the board was going to hear such that they could be conform applications and be heard before the planning board and so were you familiar with the the ordinance when you were creating the the design yes correct and so what were your thoughts on the on that and why did you decide to keep it on the exterior the the signs on the exterior as opposed to putting it inside well the the again the main the main function of the sign is for dedication and people frankly would rather pay money to have their signs splattered on that that side and in the lobby it's just more effective it's just they're paying a lot of money and they you know they want they want people to know about it so that was the client asked that we include the signs on the outside you know I I if if it's helpful to maybe down ize those signs let say instead of each one being 80 each one will be less than 80 to bring down that number I think I think client will be amendable to that also so I do have the applicant here tonight who can testify to the signs themselves and the rationale behind why we believe they're important and necessary for this application itself if the board would like to hear that [Music] hello yeah please introduce yourself all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I affirm all right please state your name spell your last of the record Aaron Stern a s RN all right you're the applicant testifying as to the personal knowledge of the application yes so we're hearing a lot about the sign so I just wanted to make it clear um the building has three parts to it there's the men part there's the utensil part and there's women's part A woman has to know where she's going so she needs to sign for the women's side a man needs to know where he's going so he needs a man a sign for the man's sign and if you wanted to use utensils and you showed up there and you didn't know where it was you need to know where the utensil door is so the signs although they're we're calling them signs they're really entrances or parts of the building that are sort of showing us this is this is where the utensil part is this is where the men's part is this is where the women's part is now the way we're going to name name it is by dedication we're going to say this is the utensil part donated by such and such in honor of such and such so usually the way it works is people will name it after that person has donated so we're not going to call it we'll call it let's say um women's bath house um Susan if that was the name that somebody named the woman's bath house after dedicated by their loving son Aaron and so on and so forth so although it's a different dedication but really buying the rights to name that part of the building for their loved one so it's not the same sign five times over and it's not just for the purpose of dedication it's the naming rights of that part of the building and therefore at the same same way it's being dedicated is also telling everybody where they should go and to which part of the building so if somebody wanted to know and they would look up where can I you know put my utensils in the city of Jackson where can I clean you know um go to a a men's um Bath House in the city of Jackson it would say Bath House of Aaron located in this and this address and then the sign would be this is Aaron's bath house so would it be fair to say that in a sense we're dealing with three different uses that have been combined into one building so there like technically you could have built three different buildings but instead you have three different sections exactly so because of the lot size and because of just it's more cost efficient to put it in one building but we want it to separate it as three different buildings so the building is going to be called the building because the women's m is the largest part of the building it's going to be called that's going to be the name of the building will be named for that dedication because that is probably 80% 85% of the usage of the building whatever the exact perent and it's more for it's more for directional purposes right so I I think what the board is trying to get Beyond is the fact that most uh most signs are used for advertising right so you go down you see a gigantic U-Haul truck sign right in three different locations in the site sometimes it's unnecessary to have you know three different U-Haul signs um on the same site plan right in this situation it's different it's it's a you're a nonprofit it's a dedication almost like an endowment type situation but it's also for directional purposes of somebody coming in and and you're guiding them as to where to go exactly no different than a hospital will have the P the pearlmutter emergency room and so on and so forth any other questions for this witness Mr rker the the only thing I would suggest is to tone down the dedication side I I agree with all this your your your your statement about the hospital is dead on spot accurate a great example uh I'm not saying saying you know diminish it but in scale and perspective right now it it it's I don't want to use the word egregious but it's it's more prominent than the rest of the signage I I agree with the entrances it makes common sense I'm familiar with the culture I get it but I just think scale it down if it's at 80 square feet you know bring it down to 65 or something like that so that you know the the to me if I'm going to look at that building you know The prominent sign should be the sign that's deer you know okay that that's that's what look at and these are the accessory entrances that you know are going to guide the user that would be my suggestion for you but I I I would agree with you that they there're three separate uses if you will you know if if you were going to compare it to a hospital room and hospital and patient out patient and emergency same same concept would you be IM able to reducing the size of the dedication Signs by 20% so I'm not good with my math and what the signs actually are per se I leave it up to the architect but I I I'm technically I believe I would speak to the board but I be we would be fine with that technically I think the main building name like probably the what the building would be called would call that the the women's Mika would probably be the building name that should be more prominent the other ones could be smaller I believe okay so would you agree to a 20% reduction in the size of the dedications that makes sense yeah okay good I love it when we can all get together and work together so thank you very much for that okay thank you thank you very much thank you all right do uh gentlemen anything else you want to add uh anybody else from the board have any other questions for this applicant all right all right I just I want to pull the um I want to pull the planner up one more time I just want to go over the standards real quick then then we can move on the traffic um so now that we hashed out some of the the sign issues and um how how big the lettering is going to be um I just want to go over so so this is a C2 variance for the signage correct C2 yes there a C2 right so so so flexible flexible variance well that's what so did I if I said c i me I said c I meant to say C2 this is a C2 this is a flexible variance the C2 okay this is not a hardship no there is no hardship the applicant decrees this is a C2 flexible variant C2 variance right so uh in a situation like like this you guys are an endowment um you guys are nonprofit this is basically just being used for directional purposes it's uh it's not for advertising purposes um and it's it's for contributions and dedications uh to the to the um nonprofit itself right so given that what um what purposes are the positive criteria does it enhance so um I would say that we could um look at the two there's a side ID sign where're requesting variances from and for and um the uh the wall sign so first uh for the wall sign um the wall sign is an accessory use it is also really essentially a component of the building no that that's not what I'm asking what I'm asking is that the purposes of yeah yeah I'm getting yes I'm just explaining that it's a component of the building and I would say that it would fall under the use of the building and is it is promoting the um a it is promoting the it is encouraging Municipal action to gu the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner which will promote the public health safety morals and general welfare okay I would say the sign is is is part of the building and would fall under the use of the building and the and and um it serves the purpose that the building is serving all right um and what about I it it it would I also it promotes a desirable visual environment all right and given that I need some testimony from you as to how it it wouldn't be detrimental to the zoning plan if that's what your testimony is correct yes um the um the zoning ordinance does require um one wall sign and 80 square feet and um that is um a certain clutter that is um that is uh created when there are too many wall signs and too much wall sign and um I believe that over here where we're discussing a dedication there's no advertisement going on um there is not a there is a Dem minimist detriment um and this is not um there is no there there is there is a Dem Minimus um detriment and the purpose that is Advanced outweighs any detriment to the to the uh to the public goods all right fair enough so you would say that the the signs themselves that provide direction to the potential users would help uh the negative or satisfy the negative criteria by saying it's not going to have a detrimental impact to well we're discussing first the positive criteria and I believe yes it um meets it satisfies also the negative criteria it is not it's not substantially impair the intent and the purpose of the Zone plan this is a Dem Minimus um deviation in somewhat of a unique scenario where again as discussed we're not um dealing with Advertising Signs we are dealing with um dedication signs and um it it sort of is a finish to the building obviously it helps in the construction of the building but um it does not substantially impair the intent and the purpose of the Zone plan and the zoning ordinance and it does not um there is no substantial detriment to the public goods fair enough all right that'll be my testimony thank you unless anybody else has got anything that's all I got for you and last but not least I'm going to have my traffic come up and provide some testimony you again Mr Kel you swear orir to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth all right all right and does the board accept this fine man's CR yes we do and welcome back take it away sorry about that uh my office prepared a traffic study dated March 25 2024 and the traffic counts were based on data collected in uh December of 2022 and um the analys is basically focused on the PM peak hour since that was the information we provided uh we will be rising revising the traffic study for the county submission we can copy the township for the am as indicated there's an AM activity but the am traffic generation is much less than the PM in addition the traffic volumes at Wood Lane Road in New Prospect are approximately 15% less during the morning peak hour than the PM Peak C so for uh therefore in my opinion we've analyzed this for the critical period during the PMP C uh we took into consideration the the um operations as was testified earlier based on uh the activity associated with the women's Mikvah and then the men's mikva and basically projected approximately 56 trips during the um evening peak hour which is probably a conservative estimate because that's my understanding is someone attending the mcbook can be there anywhere from 45 to 45 minutes to an hour uh so in my opinion based on that our estimates are considered an overestimation so that considers a worst case scenario and similar to the other project we considered a 10-year buildout as recommended by Ocean County our analysis also included the proposed sh that is uh going to be located on South Prospect opposite Wood Lane so we included that traffic associated with that development and as far as the site driveway onto wood lane road it's it's projected to operate a level service a and that's attributed to the lower volumes on Wood Lane Road which are approximately 200 Vehicles two way 200 to 250 we also have you know the main a an access point out to South New Prospect we projected that to operate a level service D that access will be two-way as it is today and then we also analyzed the intersection of South New Prospect with wood lane road and it it's projected in the 10-year buildout to operate at level service D with or without this development um important to recognize though for during the morning period a lot of the trips a number of the trips associated with the Sho will also be uh uh generated by the Mikvah so there's a common there's a common relationship between the Mikvah and the sh so um just for the board's benefit uh according to the ordinance 27 spaces are required 53 SPAC parking spaces are proposed based on the maximum number of people on site at one time of 35 it's my opinion that there will be more than adequate parking to support the activity and the site's been uh laid out to accommodate not only the circulation of of passenger vehicles but also the larger vehicles that will serve this site on a infrequent basis um so uh basically it's it's it's my opinion and the report has substantiated the fact that this developmental Redevelopment that should be important to recognize too that this site was previously a dental office so it's not all new traffic but will operate um uh compatibly with with future traffic conditions and the site driveway will operate safely and efficiently is uh our professionals have any questions yeah Mr kennel um the most recent plans from the site civil engineer show the county improvements that would include the tract across the street and it shows a it's a Northbound left turn lane on South New Prospect well that's correct the Count's again the county is in designed phase right now for the improvements of South New Prospect so without any of these developments there will be a dedicated southbound left turn lane into Wood Lane but in conjunction with the sh that's on the the west side of of South new Prospect uh we're going to create a formal fourth leg that'll be upgraded with an upgraded traffic signal system and with that there'll be a dedicated Northbound left turn lane into the sh okay so my my question is with that dedicated left turn lane the South New Prospect access point is that still a full movement access in other words if someone's traveling south and South Prospect Road through the traffic light can they make a left across that dedicated left turn lane into the site or does that need to be reconciled either by the site civil engineer yourself the county um we've always had those conversations along County Roads the police tell you you can't cross two double yellow lines we have it at the police station just down well title away title 39 does allow to cross the double yellow but that's again and we're going to be further working with the Ocean County my understanding is where we don't have signalized intersections there will still be a third lane it be a two-way left turn lane so it basically creates a refuge area for people to turn into driveways and other um for other opportunities uh and depending on what the final length of that Northbound left turn lane uh will dictate whether left turns are allowed at that point if not they make the left turns at uh in at the signal I intersection at the dedicated left turn lane program by the county I I I completely agree that the place that everyone should make left-and turn Lanes traveling south is at the traffic light my concern is that now that we're not widening the road we're just restriping it so to speak there's no bypass lane heading south so someone's going to want to make a left in there and if the left turn lane into Wood Lane is locked or the Northbound traffic gets to that place I'm going to back traffic up at a traffic light and so I I don't know when the answer to that question comes but I need there to be a recognition on the record that the site civil plan submitted may not permit at some point in time left turns in or out of the site access from South New Prospect Road that is possible and that is going to be resolved through our our final discussions with the county and that's going to be evolved so I'm involved in the in the sh project and then we have to develop the traffic signal plans to be compatible with the County's Corridor Improvement so there's still a lot of work to be done to define the exact length of the dedicated left turn lanes and how that impacts the Mikvah site driveway I appreciate that clarification just want to make sure that the record's clear at some point in time the county may make this applicant come back and either limit access and I don't know if you end up with a teardrop configuration in the entrance or if it's just going to be left the way it is and we hope people don't make lefts but they're not supposed to make lefts my sense is given to proximity of the driveway to the property line that this would be by signage and not by uh a physical Island so I would assume that the applicant doesn't object to that being conditioned in the resolution correct thank you that's all Mr chairman thank you does anybody from the board have any questions yeah Mr marzo um could you tell me what the peak hours are for the Sho I know you said you took that into account and I have the peak hours for the Mikvah would be 1 half hour before Sunset to 10:30 p.m. so what were are the peak hours for the shol I didn't see them in the report they that that's a report that's part of another application I guess it'll be before this board in two weeks I think or three weeks but um as far as the sh the the the peak activi is generally in the morning peak hour and that occurs you know before um the congregates go to work or do other other um activities uh as far as the PM PE peak hour generally the sh traffic generation is probably 50% of the morning uh I have that report if you just let me go back to my file I'll give that information all right if we're just going to talk about this in the context of the traffic counts that's fine but we we can't be introducing it as an exhibit we're just giving some I I I just I don't want to bring the other application into this one we got to make sure we keep it to uh to the merits of this application coloring in the lines good there you go so the traffic study prepare for the sh goes back to May 29 2023 and we have projected during the morning Peak hour6 trips and then the afternoon 60 trips and that we did to be compatible with the peak hour which uh is what was utilized for the Mikvah application of 4:45 to 5:45 the morning peak hour is 8:15 to 9:15 any other questions all right see a further questions I will now open it up to cross examination these are for questions to the people who have testified only this is not for public comment on the application anyone wishing to come forward please state your name and spell your last name and give us your address now you're ready you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record Jim Sakia s i l e CC hiia six harfield Drive um first of all the building looks great so the architect kudos to you I don't want to bring this up again but the signs if they are going to be used for entrances don't they need to be lit didn't we talk about how they weren't going to be lit but if they're for entrances you want them lit because the women are coming in after night you know after the dark so that's just my thought process there my other question can you bring up the site plan the no that's the old one or is that okay so let's look at the the entrance off a New Prospect into the property see how it's curved in you know it comes down and you got to kind of make it so you're going to make a right turn and you're going to kind of come back a little to me that is set a dangerous precedent because if someone's coming out and someone's pulling into that lot pretty quick and they don't see the car coming out you're going to end up with a collision there other concern is because of the changes that are going to New Prospect which the way it was described in the press releases is it's a three-lane highway from Wood Lane to new to County Line with the center lane being used for left turns in spots so if that's the case the traffic is going to be coming down close to that entrance well if that person turning in all of a sudden sees a car and decides to stop and he's got somebody behind him guess what's happening so you I would just say is there a better plan for that driveway in and out I don't who I that and if I and if I make sense yeah I understand your question and and a lot of that has to do with first all the county requires us to have an offset from the property corner are not to encroach the curb return Beyond to the other property to the South which is lot 47 and in at the same time trying to provide convenient access to the eastbound uh circulation aisle we can discuss with the county about uh utilizing say a a a larger uh radius or a truncated radius to to in improve the flow into the site um but that may also require some relief from their design standards but we can make that request I'm just saying that those are the things I think you need to look out for in that section and it's looking out for the people that are going in and out at there so I think it's something that they'd want to definitely look at also and yes it was a dentist's office but before that it was also a bank thank you see no one come forward make a motion to close cross-examination second all those in favor I I now I will uh open it to public comment public comment this is public comment on this application and this application only anyone wishing to come forward and discuss this application please state your name your address and spell your L's name going once going twice okay seeing no one come forward and make a motion to close public comment second all those in favor I all right gentlemen any discussion board members any discussion anyone like to make a motion I'll make a motion one I'd like to thank the applicant for the very clear presentation tonight and further educating a lot of us on exactly how this works with the rain war and everything I think really done well and knowing the site and the entrance the way it works now I think everything is fine the adjustments they made with everything I make a motion to approve I'll second that a mo motion I have a roll call please Mr brzy yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo I'm going to say yes to approving but no to the C variants C1 V C1 variance no can't do no yeah yes or no I apologize no thank you Mr Herer yes Mr rker yes Miss Rose yes and Mr Sullivan yes oh sorry Mr chmer yes congratulations chairman members of the board we appreciate your time make a motion to close do I have a second on that second second all those in favor I