e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e United States of America to the for it stands IND welcome to the April 1st 2024 Jackson Municipal Township planning board meeting this meeting is convened in accordance with the provision the open public meetings Act of New Jersey an adequate notice in all forms has been provided adequately all right let's do the roll call please Mr Brey here Mr Bernstein here Mr heler here Mr Herman here Mr rker here M Rose Mr marzo here Mr chmer here Mr wall here Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell here uh we'll look for uh payment for voucher for the recording secretary so moved in favor I approval for the minutes from March 4th 2024 regular meeting okay eligible to vote are Mr brei Mr Bernstein Mr heler Mr Herman Mr marzo Mr chmer Mr wall and Dr Campbell take a motion please motion second bernin all in favor I minutes for March 18th regular meeting okay eligible to vote are Mr brei Mr Bernstein Mr heler Mr Herman Mr rker Miss Rose Mr marzo Mr Tremor and Dr Campbell motion rer second Bernstein all in favor I we have some changes to the agenda schedule block 3902 lot 58 Bellview Estates LLC carry from April 15th to December 16th with notice required take a motion to approve motion Herman second hel all in favor I block 6501 Lot 4 2.02 my address LLC carry from April 15th 2024 to June 17th 2024 with notice required Herman second hel all in favor I lock 2501 lot 3 340 West Commodore LLC carry from April well May 6th uh to November 18th 2024 with notice required Mo Herman second hel all in favor I and board matters for discussion M marzo thank you uh good evening the master plan subcommittee met on Monday May March 25th and before this evening's u m planning board meeting in addition to gathering information for updating the master plan the subcommittee discussed the timeline for completing the master plan optional elements to be included in the master plan and the scheduling of public meetings there will be another update at the next planning board meeting thank you thank you any other board matters for discussion okay engineering and planning matters gentlemen very good thank you so much and legal matters none at this time great and we have no resolutions we will have plenty next time okay there better be plenty next time all right um let me see I think I gave the changes and the master plan report and now uh Mr feffer you're on anything gentlemen before we begin with Mr feffer as long as he's setting up there um nothing specifically except for um I think the board should have some um um or we should have some discussion with the board um the um uh site is bordered by beliew uh Maple Hurst and Cedar Hurst Avenues and we're getting Road improvements um as required by ordinance along Maple Hurst and um bellw but nothing's proposed along Cedarhurst so some testimony um regarding the the absence of Road improvements but probably more importantly um Bell View or site access is going to be provided by um bellw Avenue and a question is raised regarding the width um and the ability of that um existing roadway to um handle the additional truck traffic that this Warehouse is going to generate so um I think that shows up in comments from the fire PE from the um fire as well as Traffic Safety so if anything we need to discuss that or flush that out thank you very much thank you madam chair um the original application package indicated that the um they were asking for a temporary waiver of a traffic impact assessment and they noted that one was being currently prepared and be submitted to the town prior to the public meeting I don't think I checked with Laura today we don't have one yet um I note for the record that ordinance chapter 244 218 requires a traffic impact assessment for for projects involving 20,000 ft or greater um I have nothing else to add to Mr C's comments Mr feffer before we begin can you answer that issue I'm just going to refer to defer to my engineer planner thank you when he gets up here we'll address it be up in a second uh if I could just start with good evening everybody Adam fefer on behalf of the applicant um the application this evening is seeking preliminary and Fin major site plan approval um for construction of a 32,100 ft uh one-story 7unit building which includes 30742 ft of warehouse and 1,358 ft of office um Mr Murphy's here uh Mr sh if you want to swear him in quickly at least I can just get that question answered on the record sure all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth and nothing but the truth I right please state your name and spell your last for the record Bri Murphy M 1869 few times the board accepts the credentials uh Mr Murphy you heard the the question a second ago if you can just before we get started answer or address those concerns uh there was a traffic study submitted is referenc Mr well we don't have it how can we how can we discuss something we don't have it do you have it it was submitted yeah do you have it do you have a do not it is we have a copy of it's dated November 2nd 2023 uh sen Jackson Township it's in one of your professionals reports as far as why it's not in the other one I I can't I can't answer I checked with Council so let just let the board know we'll listen to testimony but we can't make any decision until we get a traffic report if if the board's traffic consultant hasn't taken a look at that yet then we can put we can have the applicant put as much testimony as it possibly can on tonight um and allow art board professional the time to take a look at it and then go from there that acceptable for you that's fine Ian that's fine the board's discretion uh with that and just should be noted I did hand out copies of the exhibits that have already been uh been sent and we'll have them up on the screen just so the board has copies in front of them um with that I would ask uh Mr Murphy if he can walk us through the application and we can start addressing the uh review letters excuse me could you use the microphone please since we're being recorded thank you there we go okay uh it's block 21502 Lots 1 through 4 I'm going to reference exhibit A1 which is the Google Earth aerial shot of the property the property is in indicated in red roughly in the center of the map uh it's the property is at the southeast corner of maple Hurst Avenue and Belleview Avenue um it's 4.86 acres in the industrial Zone uh it's the site generally drains from the north uh to the south of the property uh there's roughly 18 foot a drop at its maximum across the property uh the north side of the property uh is bound by Maple Hurst Avenue uh there single family homes uh opposite Maple Hurst uh but those are in the industrial Zone uh to the west of the property is Belleview Avenue it's a paper Street on our section and Industrial Zone vacant industrial Zone to the West uh to the South is Cedarhurst Avenue uh that also is is unimproved uh RightWay and or roadway and Industrial Zone also uh to the South and just real quick just I don't I don't uh take you off course too uh that much you get you're uh testifying as a professional engineer and a professional planner correct both yeah is oakers the same as Pap I think that's a typo is is say oers I think it means Maple Hurst is Oakhurst and isn't it Maple Hurst it's Maple Hurst it's a type of it say oh okay I was confused because I drove that road today I said wait a minute Maple Hurst thank you so everybody knows that on their maps please it's Maplehurst the Township Line Between uh Jackson and Lakewood runs to our east corner portion of the property uh that is a residential Zone on on the Lakewood side uh so we have 100 foot buffer from that side of the property on the east side of the property uh so you'll note we have three frontages uh on this property uh two of them are unimproved one is improved um and currently we have two single family houses on the property uh the rest of the property is vacant uh could you go to the next slide please be a rendering of the site plan there you go we're proposing a one one bu uh building that'll be a warehouse it's gross of 32,000 100 sare ft uh 3,742 ft of that will be Warehouse 1,352 square feet will be office uh all the office will be used uh as subsidiary to the warehouse use uh the loading zone is what I'll call the back uh since we have three frontages uh I'm calling Maple Hurst our front uh the back would be the side towards Cedarhurst um so our loading zone is all in the back of the property uh adjacent to Cedarhurst um the employee parking is up off of maple Hurst Avenue parallel with Maple Maple Hurst there's three accesses uh into the property uh we're going to improve uh the bellw Avenue along our Frontage to a full 28t width um so we'll have two-way access off of Belleview and then we we're also improving the full width of our property along Maple Hurst uh to a 14t half width uh and there we also have two uh two-way accesses into the property as well um there will be no outdoor storage no hazardous material on site uh we're estimating roughly 35 employees uh the hours of operation would be 7 to 7 uh we have two contractor Lo or tractor trailer loading areas on the west side of of the property and then uh basic box truck loading along uh the docks along the South Side um regard the water and sewer uh sewer uh is provided by an on on-site individual septic system uh water will be by well uh individual well uh signage will comply uh with regard to trash we have two trash enclosures next to each other in the rear of the property um it'll provide both trash and and recycling uh with regard to the buffers as I indicated we have 100t buffer along our East property line uh with the Lakewood border uh so that's currently wooded there's one patch where I'm pointing to now that's that existing cleared area uh we'll replant that and uh rate that to provide a full 100 foot buffer uh along this area uh with regard to parking 35 parking spaces are required uh we're providing 48 uh two Ada stalls are required we're providing two Ada stalls and we're also are providing EV stalls as well uh with regard to the review letters uh Jackson Township Fire Department review letter August 3rd 2023 uh we we agree with all the comments and to address all the comments in their letter uh Remington vernick's letter uh dated March 18th 2024 uh we also agree or have testified to to all the comments in that letter uh I'll just point out uh and we have our architect here tonight as well uh page six Item B 5 regarding solar on the roof uh the roof will be designed to handle solar uh but it'll depend on how much uh srax and the feasibility of that uh at the at the time of construction uh the CME letter dated March 28 2024 uh this is the basically the tree review um items one a 1 B and 1 C they all kind of reference the same uh issue uh so I think the reviewer was mistaken um they believe that the uh Zone across Maple Hurst is residential but it's not it's industrial um so that they believe that there was a 100 foot buffer um from Maple Hurst uh so um we don't have that 100 foot buffer uh the the remainder of the technical comments in that letter basically two down we agree to to comply with um so it's only one a one B one C that uh we would disagree just say that just say that one more time so you agree to all the comments in the CME letter except for one A B and C because it's a misrepresentation that's correct okay that's correct uh the only little letter letter dated March 4th 2024 uh page four item 4 a uh Doug already kind of uh touched on this is the existing Road system uh as I indicated uh Belleview Avenue along our Frontage uh it's a paper street so we're improving that street to the full 28t width cway width uh along our Frontage and along Maple Hurst we're we're expanding our entire Frontage along Maple Hurst 14 ft from Center Line um we would not be improving the rest of the roadways into the site uh we feel that that would be the township responsibility uh to maintain their off-site roads uh page five um there was Bureau of traffic uh re report that that's referenced and in that report they're referencing and talking about uh White Street and the intersections across street and Whitesville Road and concerns of truck traffic on that on that road um again the these are all County Roads that they're referencing so it's under count County review and uh and really kind of falls under their jurisdiction and also it's the only way into the industrial Zone that the towns Z this area and that's my testimony questions any questions from this count board you know I was out there today and of course Maple Hurst is just a very narrow small Road and you're improving your section of it you really believe that nobody's going to travel down that road to get to your facility the cars well we we will be looking for the truck traffic mostly to come down bellev it mostly is not a word that appeals to me it's a it's a narrow narrow road off I hate to even mention the name cross street um and Belleview is not a whole lot better what are you doing for Belleview other than extending it well Belle we're going to extend and and improve our full width uh basically that's side the side of your building how about the getting there part uh that's not the responsibility of the applicant to improve that road you know I I'm a big fan of allowing and encouraging people to uh utilize their property and and I think this whole board believes in that you know people have a right to improve their property but this is property in the middle of homes and uh 7 to7 isn't too bad but it's semi trctor trailer trucks coming in off bellw it just it's just leav something to be desired I I just don't know that this is the proper place for this type of structure except that respectfully the township has zoned this industrial this is not even the neighbor commercial or or or like commercial this is industrial um and so I while you know the testimony that's we're providing you is that it's 7 to 7 this applicant could have come in with a even more intense hours of operation as as like I said it's the industrial Zone we would like to be good neighbors and we understand that there are houses in the neighbor I'm very familiar with the with the area I grew up you live right I grew up on on my old address was back in talking about a few years ago it was rd5 box 127b Maple H avend was was the address so I'm I'm familiar with with the area and the roadway um but the applicant is doing everything that it's supposed to do it's how many days a week is this s to seven s six five I mean it could be seven uh you know again we don't have uh a user today I mean if the board again as you know we obviously indicated we have to come back on some other items we could discuss that with the do you have an operation specialist is going to be testifying we have a statement of operations I believe it was submitted with the uh you have a statement of operations but do you have do you have an operation specialist who's going to be it's it's a warehouse no I don't have an operation specialist for a warehouse um but again it's the industrial Zone permitted uses we're not looking for anything outside of that we can discuss that with the with the applicant um if they would limit it uh to six days opposed to the full seven um do that okay uh the professional gentleman any thoughts on my concerns here what's the possibilities I'm I I hear the applicant and my major concern is the a portion of bellw between Maple Hurst and and and um White Road that that's the long and the long and the short of it I have a difficulty believing two tractor trailers be able to pass if one's exiting one's coming in um the applicant I think position is well it's not our respons responsibility to do anything with with BW but I think in the interest of you know developing the site that that something should be done I I was on that road today and I was there with a school bus and a small truck and we were all stopped because nobody could pass literally you could not pass on Bell a truck and a a school bus so it's a it's a narrow road I can't see it with tractor trailers Mr Peters Madam chair um we had indicated in our report that the applicant should coordinate his efforts for the roadway improvements with the town Engineers office to find out does the municipality in of itself have a plan for servicing this industrial Zone um if I don't know if there was an overall map that would accurately show but if you take um an overall of the industrial Zone the street on the left that they're extending actually would head down towards the industrial park so at some point in time they've managed their Frontage improvements so to the extent that um you take Mr Murphy's testimony to Heart they want to come in off a white come down the street at some point in time they'll probably connect further south into the existing industrial park but we don't have a proportionate share or traffic ordinance that says everyone put their fair share him that's usually something that an entity above the town like the county would do um in this instance the roads that they connect to are in fact County Roads um so perhaps some some conversation with the municipal engineer to say Hey listen if you're going to put a 28t road in front of your property but there's only an 18 or 20 foot road heading out to White Street maybe we can horse trade where you spend your money to make sure that this site is access accessed safely just a thought but again without you know the police weighing in fire safety weighing in the township ER weighing in what happens between here and the next intersection is respectfully offsite yes and I I'm looking at that I I was at that intersection at Belleview and white and tried to make um turns in fact I went both ways and came back the other way just to see how it went it didn't go well it's I can just see tractor trailer trucks trying to maneuver around school buses at that intersection I I just and I really in all the years I've sat on this board I have never made this kind of statement I I just don't feel comfortable with with the environment here I don't know what we can do about it I I'm hoping I'm looking to you you want to improve this I understand that it's your certain right to improve it but it's just such a difficult situation how wide is is that road 18t which portion B yeah existing from where at white or I'm saying at the corner or Beyond you beyond what you're going to improve it's 18 to 20 18 I'm telling you what's the what's the typical width of a uh of an 18wheeler 12 a 12T well they fit in a 12 spot so they're usually 10 10 how about two of them one coming in and one going out what there be 20 how in Heaven's name and this isn't a one this isn't a oneway street right this is a two-way street correct so as as we indicated you know as uh Mr Peters suggested uh we'd be happy to meet with the town engineer and have a discussion with him on possibly working together to do something on there um also we could restrict coming out to Maple Hurst that all trucks would go left rather than going right uh so everything oh there has to be signage yeah so at least truck all the truck traffic gets directed to is there a possibility of putting signage at West Cross Street I don't know if that's you if you can but could you do or could the township or we request the township no truck traffic on that road because how in Heaven's name could you have a truck coming down Maple Hurst it's it's narrow they would have to do that by way of so it's like so well it's likew the applicant has no problem we can't control but we have no problem putting condition that we would at least request um signage in in you know in accordance with with what the board uh requests we have no problem sending that request on if possible so you know you're coming back anyway by the time you come back do you think you can have some of these uh issues at least addressed please we look into them yes and hopefully address them but uh I think so I think it may benefit if if Mr Ray is here to put on traffic testimony it may benefit him putting it on um just to have it yes heard just so that we can um yeah we might as well just get it on record with him being [Music] present I I would say yes yeah I love Mr Ray i' like to see him all time Mr Harman thank you um just looking reading through the ordinances it seems that there was um originally a provision to try to control the internal roads 244 636 industrial parks containing such permitted uses as set fourth a in will have a total area of not less than 20 acres all streets within industrial parks shall be private there shall be adequate Provisions for appear and maintenance so as to relieve the township of Jackson for any responsibility for the upkeep of such streets so it seems that when the Zone was en visioned there was they had something in mind for circul ulation maybe Mr Peters would have more clarity what happened in the past 20 30 years we're not an industrial park we're in the industrial Zone in an industrial Zone in an industrial park if you if we had 20 acres and so I think that's applying to uh if you made a whole park out of it and you had 20 acres or more that the internal roadways would then be that that would apply that does not apply to our if you have more than 20 acres it has to be it was a full and it was an industrial park then it's talking about those roadways internalized because obviously the township was I believe trying to avoid having to maintain roadways that have uh 18 wheelers going in and out um that but that is our opinion and our testimony uh again we can put it on that that it's not applicable to again I don't think it's applicable anyway because it's not private anymore these are Township roads but it just seems from the language not less than 20 acres that somewhere along the way they had a plan and someone dropped the B somewh there was a plan and for some reason this this property this area is zoned industri and it's our application is about 4 and a half acres uh and again talking about improvements along Maple Hurst yeah you know it's not really the township of Jackson to uh control that control those improvements really it's you you need Lakewood on that one but we but we do have something to say about bellev and the same exact situation applies it's a it's 18 ft wide two tractor trailers cannot fit down there at the same time and it will be a nightmare we hear the board uh and again at this point obviously we're we're proposing everything that it's required of us but we will go back uh to the to the we'll meet with the township engineer uh we'll see what we could uh figure out do you have any more uh testimony anybody else testimony so again so so Mr Murphy has a little bit more testimony just with regard to some of the justifications U of of our application I leave it to the board if you want to hear it now I have the also I have traffic engineer and I have our architect again the architect I know sometimes the board wants to hear doesn't want to hear but we're happy to hear and it gives the it gives the board opportunities to ask questions and it gives the public opportunities to ask questions so I think this is the time you're here let's let's do it so Mr Murphy if you can just just put your justifications on um for the few uh few things that we do need and then we'll move on you got it uh so there are two variances associated with the application uh both are related to the uh to the fact that we have three frontages uh the first variance is no off street parking in a front yard uh what we're referring to is off of Cedar Hurst uh that paper Street that's to our South uh it's this is technically a front yard since we have three front yards um the other variance is for a trash enclosure in the front yard uh again the trash enclosure is technically in a front yard because we're up against Cedarhurst uh even though it's kind of the functioning as the rear of our property uh Cedar Hurst which is a paper street is along our Southside um so that's the two variances I feel this fall falls under classic C1 variance due to the impacts of of having our three frontages and the 100 foot buffer uh off of our East Side uh meets the purpos of the ml by providing adequate light air in open space in that the building coverage is 15.2% where 40% is permitted so we're well under half of what's permitted uh the impervious coverage is 45.5% where 75% is is per ited again well under the the requirement um also another purpose of the ml is provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for for a variety of Agriculture residential uh mainly industrial uses uh and obviously I feel this meets this we're in the industrial Zone um and we have a conforming uh industrial use um the benefits will of of the deviation will outweigh any detriment uh the variant can be granted without any subst substantial detriment to the public good um will not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the Zone plan or master plan again the master plan goals and objectives specifically says commercial Industrial Development needs to be expanded to meet local needs uh so obviously I feel we we meet the uh the master plan in there uh we have four waivers that we're requesting uh the first one is no parking on an entrance exit or circulation Drive uh we have this would be considered a circulation drive so we do have parking on there uh we have a couple six spots in the back just for uh some Warehouse employees uh so it would be a variance I mean a waiver rather uh for having that uh parking area on that driveway um 10t landscape strip on the side and rear property lines uh conforming with the safety Island requirements uh this would only apply along that Eastern property line where we have a 100 foot buffer obviously well in excess of a 10 foot uh the waiver is coming into a into effect because we're not planting it for a safety Island requirement because we're keeping the existing trees and almost 100 feet of them ra well 100 feet of them rather than 10 ft uh no screen refu area in a front yard again technically we have three front yards and even though the Refuge is what we're calling the rear of the property uh Cedar Hurst Avenue does run along that South Side um so it's technically a front yard uh improvements of Cedar hus Avenue uh we would pay into the sidewalk fund uh uh since we're not going to do those improvements and that's it uh as far as as long as you're asking people questions sure Cedar Hurst yes is there a plan for Cedar Hurst do we know if Cedar Hurst is going to be developed I it's a paper street now but we know how things are going it it may be requested to be vacated is my understanding um but it has not been we could check with the township engine see if you could please check so that when you come back next time you could tell us if there is a plan for Cedarhurst if it were to be vacated that would be lovely um but if there are plans to improve it that would cause us some concerns sure it's uh could you go back to the first exhibit doesn't go anywhere this you can kind of see this line that runs diagonal across the page that's the Township Line so Cedar Hurst is here so you can see it starts getting very narrow on the property so and you'd still need that 100 foot buffer along here so I'm not sure how much of that block is really usable uh anyway um but we we will talk with the town engineer to see if there's plans to uh vacate the reason I ask is because I've been sitting in in a number of meetings that are looking into possibility of Roads uh that will take traffic off cross street if Cedar Hurst were a viable road that quazi parallels um so right so cross completely understand where you're going with that the only issue is that this doesn't go anywhere what now it doesn't go anywh no no it runs there there's no RightWay in in Lakewood where CED Madam chair unlike Maple I would support your point of view that the argument that it's a sidewalk to Nowhere doesn't carry any weight when you're doing a Master Plan update because you have folks in in Lakewood who want to connect to roadway systems who are willing to dedicate RightWay to you so I think it's a proper Avenue to be vetted before the board so just because it's in someone's backyard in Lakewood right now doesn't mean it's impossible so to the extent that we find the least onerous way of getting traffic off of streets that are overburdened I think we should leave all of those Avenues open thank you exactly what I had in mind so you know sitting on on these master plan meetings we're looking at these types of paper streets that maybe aren't going anywhere right now but may be viable in the future that doesn't mean you can't put your garbage container out there that's that's not my concern it's just when we discuss these um where we're located it has to be something we keep in our minds thank you and if you could it would really help decision making if you could come back with some kind of uh thought process that's going on yeah I I'll I'll I'll certainly try to get before the uh the town engineering before we come back does the applicant have any intention of of filing for Road vacation on that road we do not no not at this time I think the issue is also that some of the I'll call to the South some of the Lots you got but for uh that street so that's why it's it's a possibility but yeah um and then when it comes down to the variances that you're talking so you you said that those two variances are C1 you're classifying them as hardship variances yeah all right can you just go over the standards one more time sure uh so again it's it's due to the unique size and shape of the property or or unique situation of the property which is the three frontages uh that that in around the property that impinges the use of the property and uh obviously it severely impacts the property of having three frontages um so that's basically the basis if you just put pull it up and just go over just real quickly sure sorry could you bring up number two again so we have maple Hurst to our North we have bellw that we're improving to our West and we have Cedar Hurst to the South even though it's a paper street it's still considered a frontage so we have three frontages off of each one of those uh so to be able to comply with that with the depth of the property you you'd have nothing left if we have no we have we have no rear yard to put a dumpster or a loading area in uh there's nothing left to put that in uh in the industrial Zone uh because we have three frontages okay okay that's it as all it's all a testimony from Mr Murphy proba we can call Mr Ray um talk about traffic thank you Mr Clay do you have any um do you have any questions you're good okay sorry po all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do and the board accepts his credentials who we've never seen this man before have I thank you Mr Shay out it lives us John if you can I you did a report um if you can just walk us through walk us through the site and uh your findings uh we did do a traffic report dated uh November 2nd 2023 uh and as the board knows I've been sitting here listening to the discussion about the width of Belleview and the width of M Maple Hurst and I will talk about that in a minute but the traffic study basically focuses on on the intersections that our traffic is going to go through and the intersection in Jackson of course is the intersection of Belleview and white road so we focused our study on the impact to that intersection and we took a look at a design year of 2033 that's in accordance with the Ocean County planning board protocol I always want to make us look at a 10-year Horizon and that intersection will operate because of the limited traffic flow coming into and out of bellw it's really a pretty rural area it is zoned industrial along bellw because of the limited traffic flow we have a good level of service we have a level of service B for traffic entering White Road from Belleview even after construction of this project uh the county has also asked us to take a look at the intersection of maple Hurst and cross street and everybody knows what cross street is like in in Lakewood and I think everybody knows too that the county is uh planning on improving cross street that section of cross street if I'm not mistaken is going to have a five Lane cross-section two lanes in each Direction with a two-way Center turn lane Count's working on those plans Count's well aware of what uh traffic conditions are in Cross Street and they do have a plan to improve cross street but we're not there yet and we understand that and we understand the need to limit the truck traffic off that section of maple Hurst and down toward Belleview at the White Road with respect to the width of of Belleview it is 18 to 20 ft wide uh I'm looking at the plan that we have in front of us it I don't know how much tractor trailer traffic we're going to have we certainly may have some I can't you know deny that we're looking at about 11 peak hour trips generated from the the cars for the employees and the trucks that will be coming and going to me I'm looking at the site it's broken up into seven units the units range in size from 2700 ft to 4500 ft I do not believe these types of users are going to generate a significant amount of track to trailer traffic I think it's going to be more box trucks uh contractor's trucks things of that nature uh however the the the concerns about Belleview are real and I think Mr Peter's suggestion that perhaps this applicant sit down with the township Engineers office and discuss some some potential improvements to Belleview that could be done in lie of the money and the expense that would we would have to incur doing the frontage improvements along our Frontage on Maple Hurst and bellw makes some sense and uh we'll participate in those those meetings I think that makes sense any questions from the board for Mr Ray thank you Mr Ray don't go far I'm sure my watch is talking back to me uh we'll Now call our architect just to walk us through the uh design of the building right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please spell your name for the record I sure Mike millerman m i l l e m a Ann all right you credential I've appeared in front of this board before as well as others in Ocean and Mammoth counties welcome we accept your credentials thank you just walk us through the design out of the building sure so this is the uh the floor plan of the proposed Warehouse um North is to the left of the page so there are seven individual Warehouse um tencies uh each one having a small office and a small restroom uh the one to the uh far corner here that I'm pointing is the utility room for the um for the facility uh along the um East Side West Side rather is a loading area for um some trucks and there's a canopy overhead canopy uh for deliveries along the rear of the property or the building is um uh a raised dock area uh with stairs going to the grade level uh so the frontage of the building has the entrances to each one of the warehouse tencies uh off of the maple Hurst uh roadway that's essentially the plan we can go to the next exhibit so at the if you can go a little if you can scroll a little bit higher to the oh sorry yeah that so this is the the bottom illustration here this would be the the front of the building uh right off of maple Hurst uh showing again the entrances into the uh tencies along with the windows into the offices and I believe there's a a rendering the next illustration a copy of the rendering has been handed out so it's third to last page there so again this is the um the maple herst stav uh Frontage uh Windows going into the offices and uh doorways into each of the tencies uh the majority of the uh building will be uh metal panel um and just small articulations again being an industrial building um we Tred to use some small articulations of the colors of the materials uh with some vertical along with horizontal Al um variations in the color here we are showing um a signed location uh this would be approximately the size of the signage that's permitted and then each of the units would have uh entry um demarcations for the individual tencies Mr feffer I just want to congratulate you on uh coming in with with nice architecturals I think it makes such a difference now and we've been doing this a little while together um such a difference that we can see what something is going to look like whether we like it whether we don't like it is not the question that at least we have some idea that there is some Integrity here and some consideration for the environment uh that people will be living around so I really do thank you for that thank you thank you and again as Mr Murphy mentioned the uh structure will be designed in terms of uh the capacity of the roof to hold solar again the economics of whether it's feasible uh that would be something that that'll determine in the future based on the market it's the wave of the future thank you any questions yes ma' you go back to SL think it was the second one no where you showed the trailers back ining it's page for the four this one nope can be the one right before this the floor plan layout yes there you go now you show the back of Trail is backing on the right side there correct correct are they to service all the locations how where what they unload how's it getting through the building or around the building what yeah the the there's a raised platform that the trucks will back up to and the there's a sidewalk if you zoom in you'll see the extent there's a raised platform around the rear of the building that would go into each one of the tencies so as opposed to having individual drop offs at each one of the warehouse locations we're consolidating it into this location and then this platform leads at that level to each one of the rear of the units all right thank you you're welcome so in in thinking of how we can address this issue of tractor trailers coming through here could there be and you have time to discuss this could there be some consideration on changing the use of this building to accommodate box trucks vans reduce the height and and make it a different type of Warehouse I'm only proposing it as something for discussion this is not you know our property but it's it's a conversation that I would really appreciate your having with with your um the people with whom you're working because I think that might make a difference on how we view the use of this facility and the impact on the neighborhood and the streets just I think what you're trying to again not to put words in your mouth be looking more for the contractor Warehouse use than than full industrial Warehouse use which I understand we could discuss that uh but I do thing also just want to point out the size of some of the units we're not proposing one you know total unit being the whole entire building there's some spaces here that are 2,000 4,000 square feet because we understand um where we are and but there' be a profile difference for sure you know you you have a a one-story building as compared to a twostory building in fact but it's the accommodations that I'm concerned about now not even the heye but the accommodations that somebody coming in with a tractor trailer a semi is a a great deal more interference in quality of life and on the roadways the use of the roadways as compared to smaller Vehicles so it's it's only that I'm asking you as a matter of discussion to go back and discuss it with your clients please yes thank you I think and those are all the witnesses we have for this evening Madam chair yes sir Mr Melman yes what's the height of the building proposed it's shown on the next slide uh the side elevation there on the right side there's some uh I'm just asking you to tell the board what the height of the building is I'm sorry zoom in at this illustration here I think it was I think it was 48 was the um given that the entire rear of the building actually has a finished floor that's three foot higher than the ground outside the way the town measures building elevation I'd like before the board decides or grants final for the application that there's a real calculation of build Building height so you don't end up with a problem once you leave this board because you get out there and well the back of the building's 51 ft and you don't have a variance for it sure so we have much to discuss uh in the meantime uh we'd like to bring the public forward if they have any questions here because as long as we're all here we might as well get this all aired out fully in agreement okay anyone wishing to to just uh ask questions of the three gentlemen who have testified are welcome to come to the podium now please to be sworn in thank you you you know Mr Feer just one question so uh just going over the notice so this AB buts Lakewood right did did you notice Lakewood I believe all the proofs were for yeah I I I didn't see any of that in there I'll double check with my office we'll get together afterwards and I just want to make sure the utilities were no notice and all that please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record my name is Michael White reside at 960 Maple Hurst Avenue all right and just so just uh so everybody's here in case there's other people who have questions this is going to be uh confined to cross-examination so the sandbox that we have with the comment period this everybody's clear so I don't going to have to go down this road again with the other two applications um is that there's two different comment periods for the the general public one is cross examination of the experts and the second one comes at the tail end of the application which is the general comment period which is basically if you if you feel something about the application or you feel a certain way uh you're more than free to come up and and tell us how you feel about it this portion right here is just cross-examining as a direct uh questions you have for the experts okay um I was here on November 20 of 23 for a variance that was approved for 950 Maple Hurst and uh my concerns there are the same ones I have now they're saying that Maple Hurst Avenue is not going to be addressed but it its widest points it's 15t 2 in I appreciate Madam chair for taking the ride out there today I've been living there for 25 years and you cannot park a car there and get two vehicles to go the other way so no parking would be a very good position to put on that street if this is going to go through um and as far as the bend at El at Belleview you can't get two vehicles to go around that and the reason I have a little bit of background in this I'm a retired chief of police and I I've seen accidents happen on roads that shouldn't have been because it wasn't even proper signage or the design was not right and if they're talking about bringing the vehicles that they're talking about that is a concern uh but I do appreciate you taking the time do you have any questions for the uh applicants expert is there going to be any change on Maple her wits so again we indicated that we were going to improve the areas in front of ours that's what we were proposing based upon the township the the board's comments we're going to be with the township engineer to see if there's something else that we could do okay because where the curbing part of lakeood is it's 22 feet and then it drops down to 15t 2 in down there so but if it ends at your property there's going to be a gap of about whatever feet that's going to be a bottleneck and uh that's my biggest concern is is the safety of the roadway area thank you sir thank you appreciate it anyone else have any questions for the experts here any one of the experts that came up seeing no further public approach the microphone make a motion to close comment second Bernstein all in favor I Madam chair I have one more question for Mr Murphy I don't think he covered it in testimony um there appears to be a water tank proposed for the site um and we just didn't get around to talking about it um and its proposed height so if we could just get some testimony before we adjourn for the evening I'd appreciate it one second that's okay it's approximately 20 ft so half this half the height of the building yes that answer your question mret purposes it's for fire purposes and pressure so basically it's a fire backup for suppression exactly thank you sure all right so we have some work to do and you'll get together and let us know what and uh we can finalize our discussions here so would like to get a date now so we could miss Morrison we have a date here sure let's see that we have June we have what do we have we have two things uh on June 3rd a warehouse actually two warehouses and then June 17th well this this shouldn't take terribly long because you should come back heard everything there is to hear I I would think and then we'll have some more testimony on things we've asked about so I don't think it would be I think it should fit in June 3D and is it you who's here on June 3D uh I'm not sure no no how about June 15 I'm fine with I'm fine with June 3rd because we we could try to fit in on June 3rd June 3D it could fit in is that fit with your schedule do you think you it's good for me just want to make sure everybody else yep that sound good all right thank you than you very much question for the chair yes sir just a brief one for the attorney since as class two rep I may be hearing about any discussions that relate to the street if it's determined by the board and its professionals that there's a health and safety issue as far as the width of that roadway is the board allowed to require as a condition of that application that funding is in place in full to uh nav to ensure that it's within the normal Carriage Way to for Ingress and egress for 18 wheelers or whatever other request that condition and fully funded yeah all right thank you thank you Mr wall it's a very good question excellent question think it's hypothetical it's a hypothetical question got thank you but a good question thank you all right uh we'll be seeing you soon and uh I think this board will take 10 minutes if make the announce is notice is re notice required well you agreeing to wave AG read a waiver of time no no no notice is required notice yeah all right we'll take 10 minutes we have a motion to okay yeah June uh 3D June 3D thank you no additional notice and agree to waiver of time we have a second second motion thank you Mr thank you all right we'll take 10 minutes all in favor all in favor of a 10-minute break thank you sh e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening M chair members of the board salor alfery clear giobi alfery and Jacobs on behalf of the app Mr um thank you madam chair uh application for prary and final site plan approval um involving 31,000 600 ft of uh warehouse and it will accommodate uh 30 tenants and along with that in the uh is 32,50 square ft of office the application is um compliant with the um uh zoning requirements um and just some testimony for the applicate regarding the sign variances that are requested that's all at this time thank you Mr Peters mad thank you Mr Peters Mr offer yes thank you we um had a technical review committee meeting with the board professional was very helpful um our original application had four buildings uh we revised plant and they have three buildings similar square footage but a redesigned to eliminate some of the relief that was required on that first iteration um also Mr CLE points out the sign variants relief that we're seeking when our architect comes up we have um an alternative that will eliminate a lot of the sign square footage that we were initially proposing but we'll get to that when the architect comes up um we have several witnesses and the first is Josh seaal from Dynamic engineering all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right state your name spell your last of the record Josh SE from Dynamic engineering consult all right and the board accepts his credentials we do thank you and welcome thanks and and he's only providing engineering testimony because we do have a separate planner so we're just going to limit it to engineering Mr seaal your office um under your supervision prepared the plans that are before the board this evening that's okay and you we had submitted a few exhibits the first of which is the aerial that we're going to be referring to yes all right Orient the board as to where this property is located and what the surrounding character is and a pointer so is this better oh much better thank you so much we're recording so Arrow map exhibit of the subject property approximately 30 acres in size to the right of the uh aerial exhibit is to the north to the left will be to the south on the top of our 30 acre parcel as you can see is uniquely shaped outline in the yellow boundary the dotted yellow boundary around that is approximately the 200t property owners list and then located heading in the North and South direction is 1,000 ft of Frontage on uh South Hope Chapel Road in addition to that uh as part of the January TRC um per year board professionals request we ended up adding uh the property that is currently under construction on lot 3.01 and that is located to the east of our overall track and it has been included because of uh on-site cross access that we have with them and a few other recommendations that came through in the planning in these zoning overall the property out there today as you can see on the aerial map has about five residential dwellings with various agricultural structures spread throughout the parcel it's partially wooded with some cleared land again for those agricultural uses there is a very very small pocket of wetlands located on the southern uh property line associated with that is a confirmed 600t pin lands and wetlands buffer overall the entire track is located within the Pinelands manufacturing Zone the P1 pm1 Zone in addition to that uh to the north of the property uh which is again on the right side of the page you see that we do have some Frontage on Whitesville Road that that again is located with lot 3.01 not associated with our development area but because we have cross access through that parcel we wanted to show that you have frontages on uh two separate roadways uh again to the north is the rgc1 zone to the South is the pm1 zone to the E East is pm1 Zone and then to the west across uh South Hope Chapel Road is uh some Wetlands as well as the rd9 rural development Zone and and just for the record we did amend the application to include that second parcel and did get a 200 foot list from that perimeter as well when we did our notices um so overall if we can go to exhibit um which we'll identify as A2 and that's the colored rendering of the S plan is that what you're looking for that is correct thank you very much um so this is the site plan that's part of the record civil package overlaid onto the landscape plant and then colored for presentation purposes the orientation is the same however it is zoomed in a little bit from your last exhibit A1 on the right side of the page is to the north to the left is to the South and South Trope uh South Pope Chapel Road is running in that north south Direction the orange blocks that you see will be the industrial park that we'll be discussing this evening the gray and black areas are the access aisles parking areas and then anything else that you see in in green and different shades of green are various Landscaping items as well as storm water management facilities starting on South uh Hope Chapel Road uh we can begin with the project that we have our three curb Cuts servicing three separate buildings as you heard from Mr Alfieri in the beginning of this project we had a slightly different design we had four buildings previously in working with the TRC and the board professionals we have reduced that down to three different buildings the square footage is approximately the same totaling 340,000 Square ft starting from the souths side looking at the larger building that's approximately 185,000 Square ft this is a uh deeper building which has a truck Court centralized in between buildings one and building two as you can see in my pointer here this will accommodate some of your uh tractor trailers for local deliveries and Regional deliveries located on the south side of the building is our customer parking spaced for anyone who'll be working inside of our building building two which is centralized in the middle of the site plan uh has a narrower building and that is Will attract different tenants that will have an even smaller type of footprint as you can see it's a very shallow depth building although it does have the flexibility of accommodating a tractor trailer because of the shared truck Corp between building one and building two we don't expect a very large tenant to be in one of those second buildings because of the narrow depth of the building moving away on the Northern side for our third and final building you will see a building that only has uh loading for truck uh I'm sorry box trucks those box trucks are smaller in nature sometimes not articulating in any manner and are at grade level so buildings one and buildings two do have a sunken truck Court meaning the building is elevated from where that truck can be able to back in and utilize those facilities the third building on the Northern side of the property line is at grade meaning that anyone's van or truck or even a box truck can be able to utilize that facility overall with the redesign in revision and submission to this board we've eliminated all any any and all variances associated with the bulk standards of the pm1 zone so the building coverage setbacks and impervious coverage all comply with the pm1 Zone in regards to the access to we have to uh South Hope Chapel Road we have three curb Cuts starting from the Southern Property uh Line This driveway will be associated with any of our uh customer vehicles and employees coming to the property it will be restricted from artic ating tractor trailers the northern property uh where we have a our second curb cut will have the same facilities it will be full movement and it will be restricted with signage to have no tractor trailers just our vehicles and customer Vehicles the larger driveway that is centralized and aligns directly between building one and two that is where our tractor trailers will utilize and come into the site we'll hear from our traffic engineer shortly is all of the improvements that will be associated with South Hope Chapel Road we will we'll be providing a left turn lane dedicated to come into our main Drive aisle where the trucks are that way any tractor trailers queuing and staging to make the maneuver into the facility there will be adequate room for a car to continue heading Southbound on South Hope Chapel Road the southern driveway also has a dedicated left turn lane for any of your cars and vehicles that can stage and any other traffic can continue moving south without impeding the road on the Northern driveway there is still striping for a two-way uh Center turn drive a so a pretty significant Improvement along South Hope Chapel Road to ensure that we can provide substantial improvements for this development overall throughout the rest of the property we are compliant with 399 parking spaces compliant with your Ada as well as the EV statute that's been adopted our parking is 9 by8 again compliant with your standards and the loading Associated uh with these Center Drive aisles are 13x 60 and then the smaller box trucks are approximately 12 x 25 what you see on the rear uh which will be the Eastern side property line is a roadway but that is dedicated for fire access only and working with the fire department and ensuring that we comply with their standards they wanted to make sure that they had full circulation around this proposed [Music] development uh overall in regards to drainage as you heard in the initial testimony on exhibit A1 um there's existing structures out there today but not really any substantial stor Water Management and as this board is intimately familiar you must go to uh Pinelands first to get their approval before we can submit to this uh this board I'm happy to say that there is a robust storm Water Management Facility associated with this property you're looking at five small scale bio retention basins two above ground large scale infiltration basins and then two on-site porest pavement systems complying with all prongs of storm water management for the state Pinelands you guys as well as the S and the county overall the entire 100-year St STM will be retained on the property and infiltrated back into the ground there will be no discharge to any of our neighbors or to the surrounding roadways it's a significant improvement from overall stor Water Management utilities as I mentioned there's some uh existing things on site Wells and and um septic facilities all those will be abandoned and um in accordance with New Jersey regulations we are providing a water main extension located within South Hope Chapel Road that will then Loop throughout the property to provide adequate uh fire hydrants and that again has been reviewed and approved by your fire department there is a sanitary main located to our neighbor to the south on uh exhibit lot I'm sorry lot 3.01 we will be tying into that infrastructure uh with our own uh sanitary Main and if we can quickly go through some of the Landscaping because I think it's important for this tonight's discussion a lot of the comments uh from your um professionals have all gone into that and we've revised the plans a few times we're on revision 8 at this moment um it was really associated with some the Landscaping so I'm I'm happy to report that there are 433 new trees that will be planted for this project 976 shrubs and almost 500 other planted those are ornamentals grasses and flowering plants so you're looking at 1857 total new plantings spread throughout the property the focus of those plantings of course are in some of those above ground bioet bio retention basins those basins have to be 85% planted the next is foundation plantings around all of the buildings for aesthetic purposes further we are buffering as much as we can on South Hope Chapel Road you can see a lot of those green areas and uh little circles that are provided up on the road and finally we try to uh buffer as much of as we can of the landscap of the loading areas as well as the six trash enclosers so anywhere you see pockets of uh green circles those are all proposed trees and shrubs in order to buffer some of those site features that we're proposing over I do believe that we meet all the compliant with the lighting uh LED fixture spread throughout the site and uh overall the the main purpose of the January TRC and the redesign was to try to comply as best we can with all these features of the PM uh one zone uh a few follow-ups first in the PM one zone uh there are certain ordinance Provisions first as it relates to office space although offices are permitted the offices that are proposed are ancillary to the warehouse uses correct there's not going to be separate office tenant that is correct uh secondly um uh section A5 says the warehousing or storage of good and products provided that no goods are sold from the premises and further provided that everything will be stored within an enclosed building we would comply with that that is correct there is no outdoor storage associated with the site plan um have you had an opportunity to review both the RVE report dated March 25th and the Owen little report dated March 25th also so and are there any technical comments that you have a concern with or can you stipulate that you would address them uh we certainly intend on uh complying with all items that are in both of these letters I will say that I I think we tried to address some of the questions that were in these letters that asked for further testimony um for example under C3 we talked about um the requirements of having a buffer it is the applicants teams professionals that we we hope that the board finds that the buffer has been satisfied um there are multiple rows of trees and shrubs as well as a fence that is wrapped around our bio retention Basin and then an infiltration Basin so as you could see there there's more than 100 ft of green space between our South Hope Chapel Road and the first area of development um so that was just some additional testimony not a direct comment and how is the refuse handled certainly uh we have six trash enclosers spread throughout this facility all will be done by private hauler um and be based on on tenant demand and um just one final question on my end uh the interconnection although we touched on it um I don't know if you could describe in a little more detail how it would operate and I don't know if this exhibit would work or if the aerial would be better I think this is a great exhibit and you're going to hear from Mr Ray in a little while from a traffic standpoint uh but from a site plan standpoint the reason that this layout was designed was to truly bifurcate and separate the different types of tenants and users that will be on this property the main driveway as I mentioned in the opening will be servicing tractor trailers and those of those vehicles that are beheading right in between buildings one and two that's our formalized truck couron here our separate driveways to the South and to the north are all associated with our vehicles that will be working there or uh coming as a uh we'll be working in the officer in some of this uh industrial space that's where our vehicles will be located to the South and there's also a dedicated parking area between buildings 2 and three you'll see box truck loading on the uh Northern side so overall there are separated access aisles in order to keep the box trucks the tractor trailers and then the people working in these facilities in separate lanes and we think that's good uh overall site plan design is there a is there a u Monument or site identification sign proposed there is we do have a uh small I uh Monument sign located right at the main driveway um do have the dimensions give me one second yeah one ground mounting sign it is only 30 square feet 6 feet tall and we are 30 ft set off of the roadway you will hear from uh the planner in a little while to discuss that variance that's necessary and associated with it but I think for 1,000 ft of linear Frontage on a 30 Acre Site with 340,000 squ ft that a 30t identification sign for the main driveway uh doesn't have any negative impact and is is pretty small in regards to how um in regards to this type of project that's all we have of the engineer Madam chair thank you the board have any questions I I just got two questions real quick um so for the wetlands buffer the 600 foot radius you guys have that uh mapped out so a great question Mr Shay the edge of the limit of our rendering is um all of anything you see colored is proposed Redevelopment the actual property line extends South gotcha that is all the wetlands buffer that is not to be disturbed okay so so you know you're you far exceed the 600 feet is what you're correct saying okay and we have that but do we do that by way of delineation line or how did that how was that so there's two paths that you could um handle wetlands in New Jersey when you're in Pils you can either get the LOI which is you know expires in 5 years or you can get an actual certificate of filing where piland verifies the buffer and that that permit lasts longer we as Dynamic engineering recommend it to our client to seek the pine land's approval so the the there is no formal Loi but the wet um the Pineland certificate of filing references the location of the wance as well as the 600 foot buffer and even some of their conditions of compliance talk about what can and can't go inside of there so did you walk the site or did you yes there's a yes there is a delineation associated with this just a yes and it's it's actually offsite a bunch of the wetlands flag so a very small portion comes onto the property yeah just need just want a confirmation absolutely um and then the restricted restrictions with the trailers um are you guys going doing that by way of deed restriction or how are you guys uh intend to do that it would it would be in all the leases um but we would whatever else the board wants to assure the enforcement we have no issue with okay all right Mr burn he asked my first question okay so good very good anyone else with a question Mr trer you referenced that uh you were going to put access around the back back of the building I can see on Mr the microphone please thank you I can see on here that you do have the roadway but I don't see it on that is that going to be something different than a regular roadway correct that that will be uh grass pavers it'll be able to be strong enough to handle a fir truck we do uh provide that throughout different areas of the state of New Jersey um and the fire department has said okay to it just to ensure that the product that we utilize is strong enough to handle it but it will allow grass to grow no I was just curious CU why I you could see the delineation there yes thank you no problem Mr Bernstein could you just point that roadwi I can't see it clearly over there can you just show the pointer you said the uh the fire the one that Mr trer just asked you about yeah certainly it starts on the southern Drive aisle and wraps around connects into the main truck H area and also connects in between buildings uh two and three okay what what's the width of that roadway 24 ft which exceeds fire code requirement thanks thank you anything from the anything from our professionals um Ju Just real quick mam chair um it is under the pilon's jurisdiction and they have issued a certificate of filing and noted several inconsistencies with the um the CMP any issue resolving none we'll comply with all of their comments we even resubmitted back to them to address them and the only other question um uh the Bureau of uh Traffic Safety had some um comments or recommendations before as restricting you know the um uh entrance movements into and from the site um any movement or any um input from them uh we have not been able to meet with them we were uh happy and willing to we were happy to meet with the fire uh Department who issued a new letter literally today um but we did not have the chance yet to speak with the um Police Department we will say that uh we comply with half the letter um and the first half that has some other recommendations you'll hear testimony from Mr Ray about the improvements we're doing on South Hope Chapel Road the future improvements that will be coming to the intersection of white Ville and and South chap Road thank you that's all Mr Su can you since you're going first there still seems to be a discrepancy about the square footage for the site um I'm not saying it's yours I'm not saying it's someone else's but if you know the answer could you put it on the record please what the total square footage is and what the breakdown for office and where housing is oh the building not the property yeah the proposed development correct certainly I did see that comment in your in your review letter I I would like to defer to my plans and I'll explain why our our exact office square footage makes sure and we align with um the parking standards I did agree with your comment that if there were to be more office we would require more parking spaces and that's not the position of the appan at this time um just want someone to tell us what we're going to write down if we write a resolution no absolutely um in in my opinion the the building one is 184,000 Ft with 13,00 845 ft of office inside building two is 87,8 65 ft with 10,15 ft inside and then building three is 71,3 Ft 8200 ft inside so I do believe that aligns and matches uh your review letter uh thank you no problem thank you that's it gentlemen just uh one more professional to speak oh good oh Mr her thank you um by the main exit going out to Hope Chapel I don't see any traffic light there I'm assuming it's not part of the plan but that being said seems like an extremely busy a lot of lot happening a lot of loading docks when you're going to have three four semis at a time trying to exit out to South Hope um how is that going to impact it's a great question and I'm I'm stealing a little bit of Thunder From Mr Ray right now but I'm I'm giving him a good heads up when we do uh traffic studies and analyses um people wonder how does a signal get in place when can it be installed and we have multiple warrant analyses that uh jurisdictional agencies must go through uh at this time I do not believe that this site generates enough traffic in order to require the warrant and meeting the need for a traffic signal as mentioned uh both South Hope Chapel Road and Whitesville Road are under the jurisdiction of Ocean County this is not the first time they've seen these ples we've been through significant Highway design drawings and geometry drawings and at no point in time have they mentioned the the need for a signal overall what I find is that although there's a a decent amount of square footage associated with this um you will find that the shape of the building and the Tenant sizes that you're about to see from the architect shortly are really associated with local and Regional uses this is not the type of facility that you would see closer to maybe 95 or uh 195 that is more of those corporate and publicly traded companies that truly are just Warehouse Dry Goods in and out this site is designed to accommodate the local and Regional uses so you generally end up seeing less traffic and why is that sometimes a local contractor can be there even a surveying company or professional company that just need some small space to handle their truck maybe some product and and a smaller office space so I would generally say that because of the local traffic on the road we have to do this amount of improvements uh but from the type of development it doesn't warrant the need for a formal signalized intersection I'm talking about going out of the actual property not South Hope itself I'm talking about you could have a line of trucks main drive so it blocking all access down you might have three four five trucks waiting to exit and your whole circulation plan yeah so we we we want the trucks to be centralized in here and if there is impact deliveries say that again sir would that not impact deliveries I don't believe so because because we our driveway that's proposed out on South South Hope Chapel Road is is very wide and we have two lanes for the uh exiting movements in addition to that you have a stop control here and then there's an entire throughway of potential queuing capability again what I will find though and in my opinion is that the tenants that are coming here you're not going to have 50 trucks in every one time it'll be more well balanced and I I always try to give a good um recom not a recommendation a a good reference point whenever this board approves commercial shopping center uses where maybe you have the one anchor grocery store and then spec tenants in the middle there are different tenants that are inside of there sometimes it's the local dry cleaner sometimes it's the pizza shop everybody has different types of peaks of traffic that will be similar on this facility because of the differ size tenants that are here and that the shape of the buildings will drive different uses so this is not the facility that all the trucks leave at one time in the morning morning they will be coming throughout the day so overall it's my opinion that the site design was uniquely looked at to separate box trucks regular trucks and cars and then even our driveways which is great that we have three points of access separates those different forms and there will also be a cross access in the northern Corner that heads out to Whitesville Road so you have four points where a car can come and and multiple points of access is a good thing from a traffic distribution standpoint thank you certainly thank you real quick let's just go back over the restrictions just flesh those out uh a little bit more the the restrictions that we were talking about um with the trucks let's just flesh that out a little bit more certainly so the northern and southern curb cuts on South Hope Chapel Road will not allow any tractor trailer uh vehicles our cross access that we have with our neighbor is no tractor trailers or regular uh trucks only cars can go through there the main driveway that's lined up with the truck cour between building one and building two is full movement and anyone can go in there all right um I would just request that the uh the professionals speak with the applicant to see if they would be appropriate for a deed restriction for those restrictions um just so we can have it in the chain of title uh so it can run with the land that's fine now are there going to be any um any cross property agreement Ms between the parties I know that the other part the other party is also an owner he's a partner in this too we're going to have we're going to have a cross access easement to allow that movement okay it's going to run with the land yeah that's all I got thank you we're now going to call our architect all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name and spell your last for the record Joseph Davidson d a v i DS o n all right and your credentials um I work for VY architecture and design I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey in good standing and I have PR presented in front of many boards I have not had to pleasure to present in front of this board yet right and the board accepts cral welcome thank you thank you thank you um the first exhibit that's up is is an exhibit prepared by your office yes it is okay could you run through with the board what this represents yeah this is the um overall building plan we'll say have uh I know we had some discrepancies with the square footages so I'm going to leave the testimony that uh was previously stated uh building one which is the the larger um Warehouse building uh building two we say midsize Warehouse office building and then building three down here uh these match the buildings uh from the site plan there's the main uh tractor trailer Drive aisle and there are some signage details here which um I'm going to actually talk about that last because we do have some proposed changes to that um so I'd like to just get through the building design and then talk about the the proposed signage changes that we would like to have to bring it more in compliance uh and have a lot less uh signage area on these buildings um if we can go to the next page okay um so this is the um building one uh this building is going to be a uh tilt up concrete uh building um and I colors are not really showing up too well here um we have like a very dark gray uh charcoal which is almost black here this will be painted uh on on the um on the facade of the concrete um and then we have these entry elements uh for along the facade here and I it's up on this end of the building um and again the office areas are not delineated on here because we don't know where they are going to be but the square footage will comply with what's approved and back here we have a uh sprinkler room and utility room for the building itself um right the um height of this building here we have a little bit of a marquee sign here is uh 46 ft here um and that's along the front side of the building on the back side of the building um we have the lower parit here at 45 ft and then the Dimension between the uh loading we'll say the loading grade and the parit is 48 ft all right uh next please um this uh building is going to be a steel frame building with um metal siding um in a similar color palette to the larger building uh with the same type of Entry element feature um again the height of the front here uh of this building is 32 ft on the higher uh on the lower end and on the higher end along the back we are at 37 Feet here and again at the loading area would be 41 feet uh and then it is a single slope uh pitch towards the U the front area here and again the back is all metal siding as well um same thing we got a bunch of um loading areas along the back and then store Front entrances along the front here where the employee parking is um next page please uh this is building number three um again same materials uh dark uh black metal siding um white um ephus stucco finish and a um wood grain pattern uh feature in the front um again the height of this building at the uh portal here the top of the the Marquee sign is 33 fo2 um that's the highest part of that building and then along the back end we are at 31 ft2 uh and these loading doors are on grade um along the uh left and right elevations uh we have some metal siding and then these um elements here are the wood grain siding um hopefully the next page will show you a better image of the design which is a rendering of Building B we can go to the next page okay good the colors are showing up here a lot better um so this is a pretty typical of all the buildings in terms of the color palettes that we are composing uh we have the the metal siding so that's again for buildings B and C uh building a will be a tilt up um concrete building so it will be very uh similar in color but there won't be these vertical uh siding lines uh again we have um the U element here which is the wood grain siding and the marquee signage here as well as the building identification signage um the next page um again this is the um the larger building with a similar design aesthetic but it's a much bigger building so uh again this is that dark black grayish color uh with a wood green sides and some windows here um before I go on are there any questions in terms of you want to go back one to see the signs yes and so if we can go back one so while we're doing that if if we look at Mr Peter's report he identifies 30 square feet per sign times 27 F signs for the big building um uh totaling 810 Square ft etc etc so each building okay there so show the show the board what we were talking about with the signage so what we'd like to propose to uh mitigate some of the sign variant is to remove all of these tenant signs above the entry elements here and place them down on this little sign here so these were twoot two foot sign we'd like to propose to make them uh 4 Square ft and then what we would like to do is uh increase the size of this unlimited space sign to 40 square ft and to have uh another one on the front here so there would be two 40 squ ft signs on each corner of the building uh showing the unlimited space sign and the building identification sign would only be on the one side so those Corner signes that you're referring to will be uh four per building two at Each corner right that is correct not for all four corners of the building no just just the front where the um uh man you know employee entrances are not the loading area they would want this feature and the signage on the corner so it just wrap around all right and then um what's that total square footage of those signs you said they're 20 40 square feet each 40 square feet each so the each building um would have 160 Square ft would have 160 Square feet of the unlimited space sign um the building way finding identification sign would stay the same at 33 Square ft and then the little uh plaque sign we had just the unit numbers on there um what we would propose is to allow another 2 square ft per sign for the uh business identification on that element there Mr Peters how are you feeling about that you wer given the courtesy of a hand out no idea this was um so this was told to us today and I think decided on Friday internally so that unfortunately we W up by surprise but we just felt that the elimination of the significant square footage that we have for each of the signs that that you could see for every space um more than makes up for what we're asking for but all right let's let's just that was was a that was a round robin of signage um why don't we just as simply as possible just summarize what you guys just decided in the moment okay sure so this tenant sign here on every single unit would be eliminated from the project and let's put it in perspective so in Mr Peter's report on page I can't see that eight eight on page eight building one sign there is a number two 10 sign 30 ft each 27 signs for a total of 810 Square ft so for building a there would be 27 signs like that totaling 810 Square F feet for building two two would be 23 signs total L 690 Square ft and building three would be 23 signs totaling 690 Square ft uh those would be eliminated um completely from this uh application uh the building um name signage um which we have 18 square foot each um we would have a total of we were requesting that 18 square ft go to 40 square ft and have four signs per building from a this one has a total of 72 ft in the report it would go from 72 ft to 160 ft and then the uh tenant Suite signage which we have two square foot each on building one for 24 signs at 48 square ft we would like to request that those signs go to four square feet each for 24 signs which will be 96 Square ft um on building two number one uh that would be the same request as building number one uh except that we have one sign on that building proposed we would like to increase that to four signs for the building name signage uh from a total of 18 square ft to a total of 160 Square ft and the way finding sign would stay the same and the Tenant Suite signage again there's 23 tenant Suite signs at 2 square fet each we'd like to propose that be increased to 4 Square ft so from 46 Square fet to 92 Square ft total and building three uh again number one going from one sign at 18 square ft to four signs total l 160 Square ft and the Tenant Suite signage uh at 2 square ft each with 23 signs for a total of 46 ft increasing that to 4 Square ft each same 23 signs for a total of 92 Square ft Mr Peters would it be um appropriate if you received this in writing form and then uh make a determination if it fits within your purview well two separate questions there one is we haven't seen the plan so we can't tell we we heard the testimony we don't have it in writing so well my job might be I don't know how Mr Shay is going to write it up in a resolution so I would suspect he's going to need it in writing um to the extent if the board's satisfied with that it could be a condition of resolution compliance and Mr CLE could take care of it my concern is that I haven't heard if in point of fact they still believe they need variances or not my question do you need or don't need variances our planner will deal with she'll provide testimony support the relief but yes we do okay so this is going to produce a variance well it's going to reduce the extent of the variance but there still will be a variance this is this is neither have I trying to that's the riddle I'm trying to figure out like I've never seen a warehouse supp out there is that I guess the idea is these big signs on each one of right and presumably when the tenant leaves you're pulling them off and then you've got the sun discoloration maybe trying to fix put on the new tenants that would to me re and put them up in the first place I'm just yeah I'm just kind of trying to unre Monte about you know this all this square footage that maybe is a right you really just want to you know that I've never heard the unrequired Monty line well we we do all know what happens when we put up signs and then a couple of years go by and we take down the signs and we replace them with a new sign that may or may not be the same square footage it it I agree with you I I unfortunately spent a lot of time looking at warehouses lately uh driving up and down the turnpike and I I I don't object to some creativity however uh I don't know that it's but that may be that may be the reason why they're eliminating all those signs the the signs we're asking for now the the corner signs are they're not specific to a tenant they're they're the the warehouse It's the project name correct correct so there wouldn't be other than the four square foot identification sign for each tenant there would be nothing tenant specific and why would it be so difficult to stay within the requirements why would one need a variance it's a warehouse that's why we hired the planner she can tell you why okay just just thought I'd ask I have a question just just just comes those entrances to a warehouse look more like a retail store is there going to be retail there no definitely it's not allowed by ordinance that's why I'm asking because that front doesn't look like a warehouse with a closet B it's like a retail so I have a concern for that and secondly is there any way you can take all this chitter chatter about these signs and the footage and this what's the gross difference how much reduction is it from the original plan and that it still means a variance okay that be maybe a little simpler and better on the stand we could we could while Mr Ray is doing his traffic testimony we'll have those numbers calculated thank you Campbell are showrooms allowed on this property showrooms I I don't know what the ordinance off top of my head says but I'll have to look at that again just are we no no showrooms no showrooms but I could see how the design looks like a showroom with no a lot of um a lot of our zoning the industrial Zone Highway commercial Zone Warehouse showroom garages would be permitted no kind of make sense no showrooms thank you so no customers visiting the site customers clients meaning it's only well customers can visit the site but there's no showroom there's no reason for a customer to come visit the site well I I don't know it depends on what the who the tenant is I'm not sure does the applicant have end users already in mind does he already have nobody's already lined up no so nobody disappointed with their name not being up there it's just so hard to assign a tenant now for something won't be so for two to three years unfortunately right all right thank you thank you Mr Ray Anthony could you put that aial up please while we're getting Mr Ray swor it all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do right we accept your credentials thank thank you again okay Mr Ray your office prepared a traffic report that was submitted in support of this application and then supplemented I believe um last month it was revised March 7th 2024 as the size of the project changed and we updated our traffic CC okay can you summarize for the board uh what you did to create the report and what your conclusions were uh well there's an offsite intersection uh just to the north of us I have this here we go at uh South Hope Chapel Road and Whitesville Road which was the focus of our traffic study uh peak hour traffic accounts were conducted at that location and a projection was made to uh the design year of 2034 again in accordance with Ocean County uh planning board Protocol 10 years into the future we included traffic that would be generated from this project as well as all of the other known projects that we're familiar with in the area and there are quite a few of them I've listed them in the traffic report uh there are approximately seven or eight other traffic projects in the area that will contribute traffic to that intersection for the 2034 design year we analyzed the uh intersection uh and I don't know I know I've testified on this intersection before the Ocean County engineering department has a plan to improve the intersection and it is probably four years away from being constructed the last time I spoke to the county they need to get Pinel lands approval and they need to acquire right of way in order to do the improvements and essentially when the improvements are done to the intersection they they are going to develop left turn Lanes on all four of the approaches to the intersection uh the westbound Whitesville Road approach will be a three lane approach we're going to have a separate left turn lane a through Lane and a separate right turn lane and the other three approaches are each going to have a separate left turn lane and a combination through and right turn lane back a couple of years ago when we did the traffic study for the Jackson Trails residential project uh the county asked us to when we did that uh traffic study we found that for the 2034 design year the improvements that the county was designing for the intersection would not be adequate to provide for good levels of service acceptable levels of service at the intersection and so the county asked us to uh look at potential mitigation additional improvements that could be done over and above the county improvements in order to get the level of service to an acceptable level and in the process of doing that work we recommended constructing a Northbound right turn lane on South Hope Chapel Road and an eastbound right turn lane on Whitesville Road in order to mitigate those level of service deficiencies we brought these Improvement potential improvements to the County's attention and this was again in connection with the Jackson Trails project if I'm not mistaken and the county looked at them basically accepted that they would be legitimate improvements to improve the level of service and what they decided to do was when they designed the improvements for the intersection which which are basically designed already and they like I said they're just waiting for pin land's approval and to acquire right of way they are going to set the traffic signal Pole far enough back off the intersection to accommodate that Northbound right turn lane and that eastbound right turn lane that we recommended as far as mitigation for the intersection so the county improvements are going to take those mitigation measures into consideration when they set the signal poles so they don't have to rip any of the improvements out to add these Northbound and eastbound right turn Lanes in the future with respect to who pays for the intersection improvements as I've indicated there are seven or eight projects that contribute traffic to the intersection uh this is one of them and the county hasn't made a decision as to who pays for what they are collecting a traffic impact fee from each and every applicant that comes before the County planning board and uh how they're going to handle that they haven't let me know my job as a traffic engineer again was to come up with the mitigation and come up with the improvements which the county has basically accepted as being a appropriate uh but how they get paid for and how they get constructed the county hasn't really given us any indication of which way they're leaning as far as that's concerned so that intersection will be improved by the county and we've recommended some additional mitigation which the county has considered in their design with respect to the improvements on South Hope Chapel Road Anthony if you could go to the I think it's the next U Mr Ray before you before you do that can you point out the the improvements that you were just specifying to so anybody in the crowd can well the this is the intersection of I don't know if we can zoom in on this intersection Anthony yeah we go can we even zoom in a little bit more okay this is the existing configuration to the intersection uh this looks to South Hope Chapel Road heading in a southernly direction if I'm uh no this would be North this is North heading north north is to the right of the page you have two undes designated approach Lanes on northbound South Hope Chapel Road on the southbound approach you can't see it because of the lines here but there is a separate left turn lane for that left turn movement from southbound South Hope Chapel Road onto eastbound Whitesville Road there is a separate left turn lane and a combination through and right turn lane and then both of the Whitesville Road approaches just have two undesignated approach lanes and what happens at the intersection today is that because because three of the four approaches to the intersection have two undesignated approaches approach Lanes without any designation for left turns or through movements whenever you get a person making a left turn from one of the from that lane that Services both left turn movements and through movements people get stuck behind the the left turning vehicle and waiting for the left turning vehicle to get a gap in traffic and to make the left turn so it's it's somewhat inefficient and the Count's improvements are planned to remove that inefficiency by adding left turn Lanes on all four approaches that's the the basic approach the county is taking so that's that's the way the intersection is configured now and the way it's going to be configured in the future uh I want to talk a little bit about the South Hope Chapel Road improvements uh Anthony if you could put up the uh I think there's a um it was the second it was the site plan that was superimposed on the aerial if I'm not mistaken yeah it's the next one okay so now we're talking about significant improvements that have been discussed and agreed upon with County we've had several meetings with the county to discuss the U South Hope Chapel Road improvements as Mr seaal has indicated we're going to have three access driveways to South Hope Chapel Road each and every one of them is going to have a separate left turn lane for southbound traffic on South Hope Chapel Road to turn into the site at the Northerly driveway there's going to be a two-way Center left turn lane that's going to extend into the intersection at Whitesville Road and just become an extension of that left turn lane that the county is planning we're going to extend that through a widening of South Hope Chapel Road to the Northerly driveway then there will be improvements there'll be widening along South Hope Chapel Road to provide for a left turn lane into the center driveway which is where the tractor trailers will access the site and a separate left turn lane for the parking areas for cars which are on the south side of the larger building so each and every one of the three driveway connections to South Hope Chapel Road will have a left turn lane this was one of the things that we were hoping to discuss with the police department uh we we we had a a call tentatively set up for Last Friday uh patrolman Hena I believe uh who wrote the report had another emergency he had to assist in something and we had to call the uh the the call that we were going to have off and we've rescheduled it for Thursday this week so we will have that discussion with the police department because apparently in his police report he was concerned about that North driveway and some of the access movements the left turns in and out and I'm not sure that he understands that that driveway is going to be restricted there will be no tractor trailer movements going into and out of that driveway just passenger vehicles and box trucks so we'd like to discuss the need for turning restrictions at that locations with him see if we can work something out with the police department we understand what his concern is but the balance of the improvements have been designed in accordance with Ocean County engineering standards uh the county is basically signed off on these improvements so I think we've reached the point where the county is satisfied that we will have safe and efficient access uh to South Hope Chapel Road with respect to the balance of the traffic study we we did take a look at the internal circulation as Mr seaw Wald has indicated a grass paaver Road will be connected along the back of the buildings to provide for fire access completely around the site uh that we've agreed to do that uh in consideration of the fire department's comments and uh the parking meets and I think slightly exceeds your ordinance requirements so that basically summarizes what we did thank you any questions we're good thank you thank you just just wrote just real quick so um when it comes down to the conversation that you were going to have with hemba so um if we take care of the application but um we still have that outstanding the applicants going to agree as a condition of approval to agree to whatever conditions so if if the police after you meet with him wants some type of restriction on that northernmost driveway we would we would we would agree to do it yeah okay all right so as a condition of approval be agreeed whatever recommendations are made yes professionals have any questions did you ah sorry Mr Ray no that's okay um can you reconcile the the difference with the architectural engineering building sizes as it relates to your report does it have any effect on the conclusions that are drawn in your report I I cannot reconcile those differences but when I what I can say Ernie is that and I didn't mention it in doing the traffic study I actually took a look at a worst case analysis when I did the traffic generation estimates there are basically two ways that I could have developed trip generation numbers for the complex the first way would be to use the Institute of Transportation Engineers land use code for warehousing which is land use code 150 and if I use those numbers the traffic generation figures come out substantially lower than if I use the category uh that's called an industrial park and I can tell you that the industrial park definition that's in the it closely fits what we're planning on doing here because the definition basically says that an industrial park is two or more buildings that share parking share access that's exactly what we have but the industrial park traffic generation numbers are almost 50% High than the warehouse traffic generation numbers so I used the higher Industrial Park numbers uh but as far as reconciling the differences in the Square footages I I I can't reconcile that only to tell you that I think any small differences in traffic generation that may result from using a higher square footage would not change the uh conclusions in the report you had indicated that the county improvements are going to take as a a guesstimate about four years install that's what they told me and that was back in January what if any recommendations would you have to the board for the timing of the development of this site and the timing of the offsite intersection improvements okay well the the first thing I can say is one of the reasons why the county asks us to look at a 10-year Horizon Project traffic volumes at 10 years is just to make sure that we take a look at what's going to happen in the future my expectation is that when this project is up and fully tenanted uh for that design year that by that design year the county improvements will be in place in the interim I I do believe that by the time we get all of our approvals and we're ready to break ground and accept tenants right now as uh Mr seaal indicated we don't have any tenants uh we don't know who they may be what their operations may be I you know the possibility of this project being fully built out and fully tenanted before the County Construction is is takes place I guess it's possible I don't think it will happen but I guess it's possible and uh one of the things that I did do because it was in Mr peters's report interestingly enough if we went back to the aerial photograph of the existing conditions at the inter section with the two undesignated approach Lanes on three of the approaches if you run the level of service numbers with the existing geometry they actually come out better than with the county improvements simply because three of the four approaches have two approach Lanes instead of the separate left turn lane and through Lane now having said that I don't think that that's the right way to configure the intersection I think the county improvements are going to improve the efficiency of the intersection because they're going to get those left turn movements out of that shared through Lane with through movements and left turn movements you're going to get them in a separate left turn lane that's the way to design the intersection that's what current traffic engineering protocol calls for so I believe the county improvements are going to improve the efficiency of the intersection but the level of service won't change if you free and post no the level of service for pre and post even with our traffic added to the intersection the level of service at that location under the existing geometry will not change it is going to be a d as in David D level of service for both the no build and build condition for the PM peak hour it might be a c for the morning peak hour I'd have to double check but it's it's an acceptable level of service and uh the only thing I can tell AB board too is I'm I'm familiar with the intersection I've been doing traffic work in Jackson for a long time I've been through that intersection many many times the last time I was there I actually spent an hour sitting at the inter section last Thursday looking at the afternoon peak hour and I believe that it's basically operating pretty consistent with what the highway capacity manual program says it should be operating at like a d level of service uh more often than not during most of the Cycles all of the approaches to the intersection cleared on one cycle occasionally it didn't because if someone was in that shared left turn through Lane on one of the approaches and was waiting to make a left turn they would back up traffic behind them that's what the county improvements intend to improve upon but one of the other things to look at is I I can give you the the existing volumes going through the intersection our 1750 Vehicles during the morning peak hour and 19950 Vehicles during the afternoon peak hour this project is going to add about 80 vehicles to the intersection during each peak hour to put it kind of in perspective about a 5% increase and traffic volume from what currently exists today thank you it's a busy intersection that's all I have Madam chair Mr Herman thank you um did you take into account the uh all the rg2 approvals yes along whitv gr toown Etc and Jackson trails and yeah I there are if you bear with me and without those County left turn Lanes taking into account those projects meaning if these if those projects come before the county improvements and before you know will your site be able to function properly the levels of service won't change I wouldn't say it's functioning properly because I think what the county is planning on doing putting the left turn Lanes in is the right thing to do for the efficiency of the intersection but what I am first of all the the possibility of all these projects being built out and fully occupied before the county does their improvements if I'd be amazed if any of that happened so but it has been taken into consideration and it uh rg2 is just one of the projects uh we have of course the Whitesville Office Park which we have the interconnection with which has a frontage on Whitesville Road we included that traffic uh the swanborn residential project which is a couple hundred units further up in between Whitesville Road and Veterans Highway and rg2 residential pin Rock Terror residential the course office building Jackson Trails we did all of those traffic studies so it was easy for me to just pull those files take those traffic generation numbers from those reports and and plug them into my future 2034 traffic volume but again you're confident that if for some reason the county gets delayed the site will still run efficiently mean the intersection will still run well one thing I I can tell you absolutely without any cocation is the access points to South Hope Chapel Road the traffic getting onto and off our property from South Hope Chapel Road with the the improvements that we're doing will absolutely be safe and efficient uh we will add like I said about 80 additional vehicles to the intersection during the morning and afternoon peak hours to the existing 1650 and 1950 vehicles are going through the intersection that's the level of increase that you're going to see it's not going to make a significant difference in terms of the way the intersection operates thank you thank you thank you any questions uh just when it comes down to the the fire Bureau um any discussions that you guys want to put on record in regards to the conversation that was having I think Mr seaal had those he yeah he he said we received a report today and we were fined with any comments that the Fire official had correct okay last last witness is our planner Christine Kone phone good to see you again good to all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes all right please state your name spell your last of the record it's Christine Naro n a z z a r o cfone c f o n e business address is 125 Half Mile Road Sweet 200 Redbank New Jersey 07701 I'm testifying this evening as a licensed professional planner I've been qualified here in both of your boards in Jackson on several occasions as well as about 450 other planning and zoning boards throughout the state of New Jersey I routinely teach planning and doning courses for the Rucker Center for government services my licenses are current and valid and I'm a corn appointed affordable housing special master in a several dozen communities thank you you're wel welcome thank you chairwoman so um we meet all the bulk standards for the improvements we've talked about but there are some signage variances that we need to discuss and hopefully you had a chance to do arithmetic I have which is not my strong suit I'll tell you right then and none of those things that I do do I usually do math but I'm going to try to walk us through this really slowly and patiently because as Mr alferi said this application is completely conforming with respect to the bulk criteria meaning we meet all the design guidelines and the uses permitted the PM um one zone allows for um many many intensive commercial uses um we are completely consistent with the use and bulk program for this zone so I think for argument sake the easiest thing for us to do if you have Mr Peter's letter in front of you his March um 25th 2024 review letter on the bottom of page eight he breaks that down to the signs that we're proposing I can tell the board that previously before coming here tonight we were proposing four different types of sign for each building you'll see we'll start with building one and we what we have done tonight is we've simply eliminated one category all together so we eliminated the tenant sign which was shown as tenant space I don't know do we want to pull that architecture back up that um elevation because I think it might be helpful for us to follow along with that and I do have the percentages of what we were asking for and what we're currently asking for okay perfect so do we have this marked or we can just refer to this so referring to what's on the screen as this perspective view of front facades where you see on the front elevation or the primary elevation of the building the white tenant signage that's been eliminated all together from building one building two and building three so that leaves three types of different wall signs for each of the three proposed buildings so I'll start with building one each of the three proposed buildings is going to have a building name signage that's what I would consider the Marquee sign it looks like the tallest elevation of the building and that's where we're proposing a 40t sign that will be flanked on both sides of the of the building so we have four of those at 40 square ft so that's a total of 160 Square ft on building one each tenant Suite signage was previously proposed at 2 square feet and now we're going to ask for those signs to be four square feet and we're proposing 24 of them so what those are those are the individual little placards that you see um next to the door a little hard to see on that elevation but certainly not difficult to grasp the concept that where you had a a person door or an entry door you would have a placard identifying um the tenant Suite signage so that's 96 Square ft so now we have what I'm referring to that Marquee sign of 160 Square ft capping our buildings we have the tenant site signage individual for the 24 spaces and we have the site W finding signage that's the b or the letter here it's shown as B building that's a 33t sign so on building one when you take the 160 ft of the Marquees sign the 96 square foot of the tenant site Suite identification signs and the W finding signage at 33 you come up with a proposed total square footage of 285 we were previously asking on building one for 993 Square ft but since we had eliminated that very large category of the 10 signs on building one we took that 993 Square ft by down by eliminating 674 square fet of signage for a total of 285 squ ft of signage on building one did did you get to calculate what would be permitted in square footage yes 80 square feet you're allowed one wall sign at 80 Square fet the ordinance allows 15% of the wall area or 80 Square ft whichever is less now I wanted to put this in perspective for you because while we are asking for us to violate your ordinance that caps it at a maximum of 80 Square ft the 15% of the wall area in my opinion from a planning point of view and what we're asking you to consider as a board is not irrelevant because when you take 15% of building one's primary facade area that gives you a total square footage of 4,899 9 sare ft where we're proposing 285 Square ft or 0.13% I'm sorry we're proposing 289 square fet or 0.88% so I'll give you those numbers again we're allowed 80 square feet and one sign we're proposing the four building name signs the 24 individual tenant Suite signs and the one site wave finding sign which will total on building one 289 Square ft where we were previously asking on building one for 993 Square ft which is a difference of 674 Square ft and again the signage that we're posing at 289 Square ft is 0.88% of the wall area where the ordinance allows 15% or a cap of 80 Square ft so at 289 we're over the 80 and we're also violating the one per wall right and you can clearly see from a planning point of view that on a building of this size that's going to be a multiple teneted building one sign is just not practical so moving to buildings 2 and three because we need the same the signage program is the same for all the buildings building two will have the similar program of the Marquee sign that I'm calling 40 square ft and then building two because we show 23 tenant spaces there which will now be at 4 Square ft and the site identification sign which will be the letter there we're showing it at B but they'll be labeled a b and c so on building two those are the three types of signs that we'll have they will total 285 Square ft or 0.13% of the primary facade area where we were previously asking on building two for 787 Square ft or a change of 52 Square ft a reduction in 502 we are again limited to one sign and 80 Square ft so we are seeking variance relief for that a multi-tenant building again not much practicality in having one sign so we have individual signs in indicating where the the specific users will go building three will have a similar so program where it will again have the identifying Marky sign flanking the two corners of the building it will have the individual tenant signs or the placard signs at Four Square ft and it will again have that one site wave finding signage which again is the letter that you see on the bottom of the building it totals the same 285 Square ft that you saw on building 2 where was previously proposed at 787 Square ft same reduction of 502 Square ft a little different percentage here because the building's not exactly the same size so building three we're at 0.016% of our primary facade so tiny tiny percentages of our wall area for this for the sign program and again the variance relief relates to all three of the buildings because we are related we are relegated to one sign at 880 Square ft the other variance that we're asking for our sign package is the ground sign nothing changes on that and what was proposed um in conjunction with our original application and the way the ordinance is crafted is it does not allow for a ground sign in this location so I I don't know if it was an oversight in the ordinance because in every other instance in my review of your ordinance where you have a large Shopping Center or a commercial park or an office Park it's reasonable and customary that you would have a sign modestly scaled to the park Mr sewald when he was testifying gave you some parameters of our site our site's just about 30 Acres the minimum requirement for a site in this zone is 2 acres and we have a th000 ft of Frontage so we're proposing a 30qt sign along that Frontage which is 6 feet tall so I think certainly that it's appropriately scaled to um the building Mr Peters does raise one concern with respect to our ground sign in his letter in that he references the Landscaping associated with it your ordinance requires when you have a ground sign that the base of it has to be landscaped we are showing some Landscaping but Mr Peters was concerned that we don't really have the room around that sign to show the Landscaping um I had an opportunity to speak with our site engineer Mr sea Wald and he's confident that he can um with the 30 Acres that we have have on the site uh find room to landscape the base of that uh 30t sign so I don't think that that's a difficult thing to do and we'll certainly be able to accomplish that so I think that that sign is appropriately scaled to the building when I looked at the sign ordinance here in Jackson one of the things that I can say is in reviewing the sections of the ordinance where it does allow for um multiple tenants or signs to have Parks what was of particular concern it seemed to me a thread in the ordinance is that the ordinance encourages the signs to be uniform and architecturally compatible with the building so while not completely consistent with what your Zone allows here with respect to signage I can assure you that the program of signage will be uniform and is most definitely in my opinion as a planner appropriately scaled to the building so I think that the board can grant the statutory relief does anybody have any questions on the size of the signs at this point I I have a question if you have these uh facade signs on the building isn't that enough do do you really need a ground sign I mean how many ways do you need to tell somebody what the name of the building is you're talking about the monument sign out front yes so they could see it from the road the driveway right well we want somebody to be able to make the appropriate driving direction into the sign site wouldn't one or the other be enough if if you're looking for I identification of the you know a truck is driving they they're looking for the location you're going to have the ground sign with the number and the name do you really need all those facade signs I think they do CH because I think that they add an element of architectural interest to the building the alternative is to take them down and then you have a portion of the building that sits taller and it becomes signage in from a planning point of view has multiple functions it has an advertising functions right your master plan clearly encourages commercial development we want signs to advertise our businesses because we don't want empty business Parks we want them to be successful they also have a wayfinding component to them we want signs to be there and I understand your point your point is that at that point they're already on the site so they know that that's the building but then they also have an architectural component to it too where they break up the elevations of the building so these are substantial buildings and I think that they add some you know that that's why I refer to them as marquee signs because I think they add some curb appeal I like the marquee signs I I think they do add architectural interest I just don't know if you need both since we're looking at at variance requirements and that would remove some of your issues it would remove a very minor variant in my opinion like I said we have a th000 feet of Road Frontage and I think to get the motoring public to the site people who may be visiting obviously employees will know where the site is right once they get there but when you have the public visiting the site I personally think a ground sign next to the entrance is appropriate and will help people either not pass the site or make the appropriate driving decisions to enter the site so because it's such a modest sign given the size of the building I'm not troubled byi it I don't see where it rises to a level of substantial detriment if the board were to move favorably on it but I certainly understand your position but I don't I don't see the detriment arising from the ground sign to be there as well as the building signage I think the ground sign is appropriate to get people in and out of the site who might who might not be regular routine daily visitors and I think it's reasonable and customary when you see a large Business Park to have a sign Associated or or in close proximity to the entrance and erress to the site Mr Peters what what's your thought here we have an ordinance right we have an ordinance and the ordinance says no ground a couple a couple things first is you I think from a legal perspective our our ordinances are assumed to be valid um I don't take any exception to mone's arguments with regards to the relief that's being requested um I would remind the board that while they showed up with building signs that were 900 square F feet and they say they bring down the 28 that's not the comparison comparison it's 15% or 80 square feet whichever is smaller okay that's what the ordinance is to the extent that there's an economy of scale for this large a tract of land um there I might tend to agree with Miss cfone that I don't think the sign ordinance was written for a th000 foot Frontage Road I don't necessarily believe it was um written for a 350,000 ft building site so to the extent once you get people in the site you want to get them to where they're going so from that perspective is there a middle ground do you need to have all of the things that are being proposed perhaps not as it relates to the ground sign the only comment that hasn't been brought up um which I need to remind the board is this is in the pine lands so all of our ordinances that relate to the Pine lands have been reviewed and certified by the pine lands so I think it's an oversight I think quite frankly the pine lands has made a determination they want them someplace they don't want them other places I don't think they mind if we Grant variant relief and quite frankly this is and I don't want to testify for the applicant but this is just about the edge of the pine lands in this neck of the woods so to the extent that you want to have a sign perhaps not for folks that are regulars that go there but the average traveler who's trying to find the correct entrance to the site my concern again gets back do we have three entrances only one of them is for trucks are we going to end up with three ground signs or one ground sign where is it going to be is it going to be to get people into the site or is it just going to be an advertisement so those are my initial responses to the testimony and one ground sign where um Mr sea Wald identified it it's at our our primary entrance in essentially the center of the site Center yeah and there'll be signage that instructs trucks entry and not no truck entry yeah um because I think I heard you say that I believe Mr seawell did say that but um I I heard you say it yes right yes good there's dire you mean internal directional signage yes correct any questions from the board just real quick so the the Marquee sign is that being used as directional guidance on the site so the the marquee signs that you guys have the ones going all the way up um I know it's a big site I know there's three buildings is that going to be used for directional purposes so that people know which building they're going to um I think it's more identification purposes to identify the overall Park and I just just for the statutory criteria I also believe um the criteria G or I'm sorry criteria I a desirable visual environment and criteria H promoting the free flow of traffic are the purposes of the land use law that would be Advanced and clearly based on my testimony I believe there will be no substantial detriment right and that's the test the test doesn't ask you to hold any applicant to a standard that there be no detriment just that the benefits of the grant of the variance outweigh the detriment and here the situation in having proper and appropriate way finding signage appro um scale to the economy of the site is in my opinion a planning benefit so we're looking at these C2 variances and those are the aspects of the lane yes for the C for the justification of the C variances which is the size of the signage as well as the number of the signage and having the ground sign Al together that's the relief that we require for our sign packageing and and just go down those elements of the land use that that they comport with oh criteria I which talks about a desirable visual environment and criteria H which talks about promoting the free flow of traffic those are the two parts of the statute that I believe are Advanced by our sign package thank you you're welcome okay nothing nothing that concludes our direct presentation and we're prepared to hear the public if I don't even know what time it is if we have time we always have time for the public aome very good if anyone would like to question propose questions to any of the uh ladies and gentlemen who uh were um speaking tonight please come forward God is good to close public session second and would you like to conclude well you can open up for comments open it up to General sure how about anyone in the audience who has a general comment on this proposed project seeing no members from the public approach the microphone move the close public comment second K so um very briefly we've addressed all of the uh ordinance standards the only relief we require is a signage which we'll def defer to the board when you deliberate on what you feel is reasonable um we've addressed the fire officials comments we will address the police review comments they meeting him on Thursday and we've agreed to address all of the technical comments within the board professional reports and we therefore request that the board approve the application with the variance relief as we've requested again you'll consider what whether those justifications are reasonable for the variances and our professionals have any advice for us on this at this time I now I understand Mr Peters didn't get the sence changes stuff in writing so would this be a stipulation your testimony is exactly what would be presented to when he gets in writing that's correct and we'll summ we'll send a letter to the board and its professionals with the exact summary of what Miss cfone put on the record so so it's clear and Mr Shay are there any anything else you want to have stipulated uh just the add conditions of approval that we're already set forth in the record um but as long as the applicants willing to comport with the representations that were made here so our professionals have the the ability to to review everything right including the deed restriction and the access easement that we talked about earlier yes all right we'll entertain a motion then I'd like to make a motion second recer the the the presentation that was given was excellent by all the professionals and even com back with a math very simple thank you um and I think the movement from the applicant on the sign may seem like it's not important but there was a lot of movement and cooperation I do agree that the one sign saying where the place is uh people coming from out of town truck whatever sees that they look at that before a building sign up might be in further and uh I I think the movement on the signs was spectacular the amount that you you considered and it took that retail look out of it in my opinion and with that I make a motion to approve i' like to thank Miss Kone for such a great job doing the math breaking it down for the board it was quite confusing and I'd like to Second let's have a roll call vote Please Mr brzy yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes Mr Herman yes Mr rker yes Miss Rose yes Mr marzo yes Mr wall yes Dr Campbell yes thank you congratulations thank you everyone thank you good night we'll take five minute break five e e e e e e e e e e e the situation we'll have a hard stop on testimony at 10 if it takes you that long because we want to give the public time to speak and we don't want to be here till midnight that sound okay with you works for me okay before we begin our professionals have any comments um uh application for a final uh site plan approval along with a minor subdivision um the board um uh granted preliminary approval in December of 22 in my report I've listed the um conditions of that approval system testimony from the applicant regarding compliance with those um um those conditions of the prior approval as well as if there's been any modifications to the um the plan that the board saw and approved back in December of 22 thank you all right so before we get started I'm going to do something kind of unique on this one um okay yeah so never boring so uh one of my original uh contentions with this was that the preliminary does necessarily verbiage wise match up with the final um the reason for that is is because all everything that is referenced in the preliminary indicates Warehouse everything and to a certain extent uh what's represented in the final is Contractor's Warehouse now um I'm going to attempt to remediate that issue that we have right now because I know it's kind of you're right Madam chairman it's kind of a semantical issue that we have here in Jackson because we have different zones where warehouse and and Contractor's Warehouse is kind of Sy iously overlap with one another and it kind of gets a little confusing so I I'm just going to run down the spirit and intent of a couple of the 2022 documents just so that we have it on record that everybody was vividly clear that the the point of the 2022 application was for Contractor's Warehouse it wasn't for General warehousing so I'm just going to run down these documents I'm going to mark them I have U our our secretary marked them as board exhibits um just so we can get them on record and that the record reflects the intentions of the parties throughout the entire preliminary and final process um so the first Mr feffer is your notice to the owners right so the notice that was uh I believe was conducted on December 12th 2022 uh indicates Warehouse uh you know what sorry about that that indicates contractor warehouses so it's good so that I believe we're okay with so the um so the applicant made a representation in the notice that it was for contracted warehouse and the notices they put out correct I yes I I have no objection to you walking through them can I just make a 30 or 60 second opening statement because I think it'll just clarify a lot of the questions before you marking the I have no objection to marking whatever you're going to be marking um just would like to walk everybody through go forward the process thank you good evening Adam feffer turn for the applicant um as Mr Shay indicated uh we were before the board uh a couple years ago uh seeking at that time preliminary and final um subdivision and and and final approval um that board this board granted that uh we only were seeking permitted uses in the zone to that extent the application came in it went to your zoning officer Mr Jeff Muro Mr Jeff indicated confirmed that we were a permitted use if we were not a permitted use we would have been sent to the zoning board um that we again came before the board uh admittedly and and there's no question about it the word contractor is not in the resolution of approval we don't deny that um however we were only seeking the permitted uses in the zone which are contractor warehousing we are no we have no issue um or objection confirming again on the record um that we're here tonight seeking final I should also say at the time when we were seeking preliminary and final the board had some concerns uh regarding one of the roads which is a county road we have Mr Ray here to give you the update on that at that time the board asked were you okay with just accepting preliminary so we could go ahead and finalize those few issues uh which we did um and we'll have testimony on that um so we're now back before the board um again only for permitted uses again and this application when it came in also goes to the zoning officer again to make sure that we're in compliance with what the Zone permits and Mr VOR has agreed and signed off on that before he even went to um for review to the board um so with that being said we're here for only contractor Warehouse we're not seeking anything else from that um I'll leave the rest of the testimony we get into the meat to the the meat and potatoes of the application I just want I thought just to set that up and Mr say again if you want to you know all right beautiful any any exhibits all right so B1 will be noticed to the owners that was uh is dated December 12 2022 um B2 will'll make uh this is uh Owens Litt Mr C's uh review letter dated July 1st 2022 um I don't believe that there is any terminology of contractor warehouseing here but I believe that um the spirit and intent of this was for that of a contractor Warehouse use as it's permitted in the zone and general housing General warehousing isn't correct okay all right B3 will be Owen Littles uh and Associates uh January 25th 2022 revised letter uh indicating the same uh that contractor Warehouse use is permitted in the zone contractor Warehouse use is not identified uh in this review letter um but the spirit and intent of it was for General uh was for contractor Warehouse all right B3 is Remington and Vernick I'm sorry B4 is Remington and Vernick review letter from uh um Mr Peters dated February 16 20122 uh again there is no verbiage in this um of a contractor Warehouse uh with that being said general warehouse is not permitted in the zone contractor Warehouse is in the spirit intent of this was to reflect that this was for General this was for contractor Warehouse use uh B5 is the review is the Rev review letter from Remington and Vernick uh Mr Peter's letter review letter indicating the same that contractor Warehouse is uh permitted in the zone General warehousing is not and the spirit and intent of this review letter uh dated June 28th 2022 is that contractor Warehouse was intended to be in the preliminary uh B6 is resolution number 2022 -27 which is the preliminary resolution again there's no indication here um of contractor warehousing um but the spirit and intent of this resolution uh which is prepared by Mr gertner's office um was to be that of contractor warehouse and not general warehouse and that is a representation made by the client correct correct okay uh B7 is the flex space for this application uh it is is the uh architectural renderings made by tasi and my eyes are bad uh alian uh and they are dated May 20th 2020 uh there's no indication on here of any verbiage for contractor warehouse but again General warehousing is not uh permitted in the zone there the spirit intent of this was to be uh for contractor Warehouse correct correct correct all right B8 will be the preliminary plans uh provided by the applicant dated June 3rd 2020 um again this uh simply indicates warehousing uh there is no indication of contractor warehousing on the uh preliminary site plan but with that being said General enal warehousing is not permitted in the zone uh contractor warehousing is and is the spirit and intent that the applicant will identify that within the site plan it was intended for simply contractor Warehouse correct all right uh B9 is the is the minor subdivision plan dated 3121 and then the spirit and intent of this plan was to subdivide for that of a um contractor Warehouse use uh because General warehousing is not proved in the zone correct all right I believe that's all we got guys Mr Peters anything from you before we begin they did so yes and I'm sure flip the building but now we'll get tested yes and and reduce the size of that build and reduce the size um yes so so the plans came in um we did hear some comments from from one of the neighbors as well uh they had actually what let me back up one more second um some of the comments from from the board when we came uh for the original application was hey can you increase the buffering uh and maybe reduce the buildings a little bit so we had done that then we had heard from one of the neighbors they asked us to do to rotate the building um in the space and this way it gave them a little bit more buffering reduced the building again a little bit by size again we were trying to be good neighbors and work with them um and again that neighbor indicated they were okay with with uh the revised plans so the the plans that that are before you this evening um are basically substantially exactly what you this board had approved we listened we rotated the one building um I was the footprint changed a little bit just when shifting it around um but it's still more or less in the same exact spot um and uh the only variance um that we have which was previously granted was for the size of the sign um the rest of the application is is what you guys um yes no more signs I'm not going to be le it's what you guys already approved so don't worry about that um this evening again I I have Mr Bourne here who who will just address uh the planning making sure that everything uh that I've said is correct we do have uh Mr Ray for traffic who'll address um we did speak with the county the board had asked us to and we have the architect as well at this time if I can Mr bordon um we can [Music] proceed all right do you swear or affm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and we accept for your credentials thank you thank you so much so basically it was summarized well uh as noted the landowner to the uh north of the property along Mammoth Road had had objected uh so we discussed it with them privately we uh if you can go go to Exhibit C please Anthony obviously building exhibit a is the aerial of the site the board knows where since we have prary approval uh so Exhibit C is the site plan that was submitted to the board uh by my partner Bill Stevens on March 25 and building one is the building closest to Mammoth Road and uh previously under the preliminary approval uh the loading area of the building was facing to the North or that adjoining property uh that is being developed by residential homes so as noted previously by Mr feffer and Mr Peters we flipped the building we reduced the size of the building uh from 20 from 20 2 9,056 ft to 27,9 75 Square ft so just over 1,000 square ft and about 4% in size we lost two parking spaces we fully conform still with parking setbacks there's no variances um there I believe the testimony was previously provided or the there is no access to Mammoth Road Mammoth Mammoth County did Issue a letter stating they will not accept an access out we attempt to do a right in and right out on Mammoth Road they they said no there's a letter that they issued so all the access is to Allison Road uh we did provide a call to sack at the end of towards the end of the project that's meant as a traffic calming device as means to to narrow the roadway from the portion that's wider for the access to the both commercial sites us and the one across the street and then to and then allows the road to maintain from that point forward the existing narrow width that that is in through the residential neighborhood so uh but the only change made since plumber and approval was to flip building one slightly reduce the size U and increase some buffering to the north as well that's it any questions from the board for this witness moving right along and we'll go to Mr Ray oh yeah I'm back you ever leave no Dr Campbell suggested I get a cut or a room here in the municipal building or move cely Pastor pic at least make it enjoyable all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do we accept your credentials thank you Mr if you can just tell us I I really don't have a lot to say tonight except that we did try to get a right in right out driveway to and from Monmouth Road as the board is aware this section of Monmouth Road is is the boundary between ocean and Monmouth counties but Monmouth County has jurisdiction over Monmouth Road in this area it's County Route 537 and they will not let us have a right in right out driveway to Monmouth Road they want all access to be from Allison uh there as a matter of fact they cite in their letter of February 13th 20 20123 they actually cite that the Monmouth County development regulations include a provision that access along a county road should not be permitted where access is available from a local Street and they would not let us deviate from that provision makes no sense to me that's basically it thank you any uh questions from the board any any Improvement any improvements being made um Alison Al we're doing the CAC the C the C toac is an improvement right at the end of Allison and and also our driveway is angled so the only movements that will be permitted are left turns in and right turns out so none of the traffic will go through the neighborhood those are those are good improvements thank you thank you anything from the board anything from our professionals may we open it to the public now the public may ask questions of just these two witnesses please is there is there another professional there we have an architect I don't know if you want we've heard him before last we've heard it before yeah no we we for the but we might as well for the record excuse me for the record we might as well excuse me I'm sorry I didn't want to slight you no offense all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth and nothing about the truth I do all right say your name spell your last of the record Richard tokarski t o k a r s Ki all right and your credentials uh licens architect in the state of New Jersey appeared before this board on a monthly basis right right and we accept you and are happy to have you thank you thank you uh Mr thear you prepared the architecturals for this uh project if you can just walk us through generally what the project is and and what the type of materials are going to be used um sure there's three buildings they all mimic each other aesthetically um if you want to go through the floor plans Anthony okay on sha1 we have building one which shows six tenant spaces um in the front of the building there's a small area in each tenant space for office and two toilet rooms and the main rear space is for the contractor Warehouse area there's loading dock um there's loading docks in the back with overhead doors um and the the front has the entrances and windows facing the uh car parking uh if you want to move to the next one A2 um here we have the elevations of building one uh the front building we have on the lower portion of it we have uh basically an embedded brick veneer along the lower water table um the buildings at this point are supposed to be tilt up concrete we have textured paint with varying colors on the upper portion of the building and we've also demarcated the entrances you'll see verticals of standing seam U metal for accents for the entrances you can move on to um the other exhibits um mimic so closely the first one I'm just going to pass right through them A3 and A4 both the plans and elevations of building to is it safe to say that each of the buildings have the same materials and just different differentiate in size yes building one is uh slightly smaller building two and three are exactly the same and they're the same as the preliminary so exhibit five and six are for buildings three also plans and elevations and then I believe the final exhibit is the color rendering nice which shows you know the brick I explained before the upper has variations in color and texture and also the vertical metal with canopies to help accentuate and create Shadow lines and we do have undulations along the front to add more character as well very nice thank you thank you thank you those are all our Witnesses for this evening any questions go ahead okay um so loading docks so how how have they been reconfigured if we want to the the prior version versus this version did we got to hit on the building one was flipped 180° so it faces away from the north the other buildings remain the same as preliminary approval okay um and they're all facing away from the residential zones all right and then the type of trucks that are that are being going to be utilized on this in this facility uh are we are there any restrictions are there anything that were are they intended to be 18 wheelers intended to be box trucks so again I don't believe that there were any restrictions um in either the resolution or in the testimony however as these are contractor warehouses um I'm not saying that the 18 wheer wouldn't you know be able to come to the site but that's not the intent here uh at all these are all contractor if you look at also the square footage of of some of the units again these are end user I don't like to use the word Mountain pop businesses but um not really the intent to have uh full 18 wheelers on site we were previously we were discussing the fact that 18 wheelers would really be a uh difficult ult situation in this particular area so we would request a stipulation for box trucks and container Vehicles smaller Vehicles no 18-wheelers is that [Music] possible I there were no there no load right so again so so in checking with our traffic uh expert um again the site was not designed for the tra for the traffic of an 18 wheeler uh they could circulate it um safely but that's not the intent here um so we would we would like to make that a stipulation of because because there are no loading areas for large trucks so we're trying we're consistent with the preliminary approval the preliminary approval doesn't contain that limitation and I don't think it's appropriate to that one now when we're simply in for a conforming final all we've done is plate and and and and uh modified the plan to observe the requests of neighbors that going and we've extended ourselves well above and beyond the requirements of the ordinance we've got more buffer than required uh so I I believe that I don't believe that that request uh is is appropriate or necessary at this time the site designed is based on typically uh smaller trucks but that's not to say that one comes in there one time and then suddenly there's a citation slapped on the owner I mean that's not that's not fair nor appropriate and that's not regulated in my opinion any comments the board uh would Mr Ray just come up and testify that the 18wheeler can at least go through it safely and stuff because they always make a tailgate delivery without backing in I want to make sure they can Traverse the end out from 53 a fair request yes the the site as Dr Campbell indicated has not been designed to provide for loading docks for a tractor trailer that's not the intent of uh the type of tenant that the client expects to get and it hasn't been designed for that but it is possible for a tractor trailer to get into the site and circulate because the the aisles are wide enough the space between the buildings is appropriate you know that that the tractor trailer can circulate it just doesn't have a loading dock to go to thank you appreciate it I I think to exclude a tractor trailer bear with me to the extent pit Ohio Consolidated Freight comes and they they do an LTL delivery they're going to come on a tractor Trail usually you know it's a pop trailer a 20 or 22 um I think a fair compromise is if the applicant just stipulates that the tractor trailers will come within prescribed operational hours in the statement and uh they're willing to go on record with a a restriction or some kind of Covenant that there will be no overnight parking of a tractor trailer I think that helps the the the public it allows you know delivery that you can't control I mean I have stuff that comes to my house that comes on a pallet guess what it's it's to Freight I think that is fair and if one reads the preliminary resolution on page three it states that the hours of operation will be from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. um although um so I think and we would stipulate as you request as well and no overnight parking we have parking that solves the concerns of what the neighbors might be bringing up in public comment and it does 7 days a week I have to go back in the resol I don't recall I I remember the application but usually i't checked Mr sh do you have the resolution handy the resolution doesn't say it just says 7 to6 right and I would just put no overnight parking of of the 18 wheeler meaning because the contractor Warehouse may have uh oh that contractor vehic that's tractor trailer truck I just want to finish the sentence outside Vehicles not associated with the property thank you one at the time guys that that's a good suggestion it says uh the hours of operation are typically normal business hours between 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m Monday through Saturday if possible however a tenant May operate as many as three shifts per day and and certainly if somebody's an owner going into his office to do some paperwork I don't think that's a concern however we we wouldn't expect deliveries or truck traffic there on on a Sunday understood that's reasonable that's we asked for that before I I thought I remembered that that is okay all right so condition of approval for deliveries not to be conducted on weekends yeah great all right now we'll open it to the public thank you and the public can come up just to ask questions of the um applicants not uh General statements please thank you all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name and spell your last for the record uh Lisa fantino F IO re n t n o 61 rck D Ro I just want to a question um about the drawing that showed a culdesac can you just explain exactly what that's going to look like is that going to close off road to the residents of not at all if you go to Exhibit C Anthony please no not at all it's meant to uh basically it's located here so Mammoth Road is here on the left correct here's our driveway here's Berwin so it's at the end of our building number three Jason of our building number three and it's really meant to be a transition point between the part of Allison Road that the traffic would be on and and the residential TR traffic that extend beyond the Allison Road from the culdesac to the county road would be wider than than the existing Allison and and Berwin are basically the reason for the culdesac is just in case a car or something misses the driveway they can just turn around so it's still a through it's Allison Road it's still a throughway correct that's correct in other words if somebody drives in and I mean it's a slow speed Road I can't imagine somebody doing that but if they were to miss this left turn rather than drive through the streets to go back out to 57 1 they would just do a little call the sack and and go back in okay thank you so much thank you just you Cynthia renchler oh hang on with sorry you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record Cynthia wrencher re n s c h l e r okay I'm at three Berwin Lane all right I have to put these on so I can read my notes first um can you show me on the drawing where the entrance and exit driveway is to the complex okay so my concern is for Alison Road the opposite of this complex on the other corner is a crane company that is proposing to build a contractor warehouse and they have tractor trailers coming in and out of there Alice I can I add a little I have to add a little to give the context to this Alison road is not going to be able to handle cars coming in and out and trucks coming out in my opinion I know Mammoth county has jurisdiction um on Mammoth Road the traffic heading eastbound approaching Alison road is two lanes that merge into one before reaching Allison Road any trucks of tractor Trail is attempting to make a right turn onto Allison right now have to swing out into that left lane to swing into Allison Road well hang on before you go into a general public statement okay sorry have any questions specifically for any of the specific questions for the okay where's the fire department access for is it on Allison Road there are there other um fire department accesses through the Allison road entrance yes okay um wrote down some notes I have to get bear with me Alis you can come back up and make the general comment later at the next part I just want to one other question is um Allison Road planed to be widened yes the preliminary approval requires Allison Road to be 24 ft with curb and sidewalk added okay so now where is the that extra property coming from and you take it from the right side and the left side is it coming from your side it's there's an existing 50t right away okay um I think that's all my questions for now um okay I have one sorry I had made some notes and all this bleeding up there's a large Warehouse down the road at Adventure Crossing it's so many million square feet whatever it is it's not occupied because the electric grid can't handle it what about the electric grid for this is there enough power because Dr Campbell you always talk about solar panels so I'm assuming that's the electric is an issue I would not assume that the the they're suitable being the professional for Adventure Crossing any vacancy of a building there is not related to the electric grid okay is the fact that building one was turned and and made smaller due to an agreement with the home builder and that's why now there's no right turn in and right turn out on the complex because I thought that was the initial proposal those are those are two disperate facts the reason the building was switched flipped was due to discussions with the home builder the fact that we do not have a right in or write out is because Mammoth County will not permit it in any case for any design of this property okay I thought it was just the left turns in and they're both facts but they're unrelated facts okay all right I'm sure I have other stuff but I'll let somebody else speak and I'll be back up anyone else all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do may please state your name and spell your last of the record Pamela last name hallower h a l b a u e r and I'm at five Berwin Lane my question is about the storm water as you know we've all had have endured this rain I have pictures if the council members would like to see from Saturday with about 150 to 200 fet back from Allison Road to the property that is flooded and going over Allison so my question is what's going to be done so that water doesn't come back to the property is behind the warehouses so just just to clarify the storm water management plan has not changed from what was uh previously provided to your professionals and as a condition of both the preliminary and the final we agreed to to meet any conditions your professionals uh any comments you can your professionals have regarding the storm water management this was handled at an earlier meeting that there was going to be better storm water management than is on that property now so it it should be an improvement yeah I I think she's I think if um the engineer the engineer may want to just quickly give her a rundown about how the storm water management May improve the situation that's on their there right now so again just so just to clarify so Mr boron's the planner he he can give an overview of the storm order I just want to be clear on the record uh that again he's not the engineer his firm has prepared it um but again it's been reviewed by your professionals um you like to give the over Mr bord he has a significant amount of experience yes 100% I just want to be clear than most of us do yes as an abundance of caution I'm just putting that on the right I just just explain how it was approved in the preliminary yeah and that and that would be exhibit D Anthony the next exhibit please the there's Wetlands uh between our site access and Mammoth Road this this little Headwater here so that's where the natural drainage directs the any runoff that's where it's directed in a natural condition so we have a storm water uh infiltration Basin adjacent to the wetlands and then under the new EP rules we have these underground recharge systems one for each building to also handle the roof run off from the buildings so all the water is is directed towards the uh South and and away from the Berwin Allison residential area the natural drainage system is away from them to the South so just to so I understand so with your system then none of us should have flooding in our base basements and backyards because of the drainage you're you're up you're uphill of us you're Upstream of us and that is correct yes and and just to clarify you shouldn't have any issues caused or exacerbated by this project this should help but we can't I don't know existing conditions on each of the individual properties but the project is designed uh that this should not cause any other issues in the area okay thank you and just just to help you out a little bit so um I've come across a number of the situ ations throughout the year so you may want to contact the township engineer and just let them know if you really are having like a a type of um flooding that that's really having some from from my understanding the way that it was built because there are wetlands on the property that there's a pipe that runs under Allison and it that piping runs to a holding Pond behind the Jackson outfits so when that was cut off everybody's house on Berwin lanee was flooded my neighbors had two sump pumps in his basement that ran for two weeks so that's why I want to make sure that we're not going to get affected by that's that's what I'm saying so it may not be anything that the that the applicant can do because it may not be their property that's that's impacting that or it may actually improv the situation when they put the um the newer regs um in place but you may want to contact the township engineer that's typically the The Forum by which you go about putting the township on notice that you are having it could be a grading issue it could be something that is is resolved very easily but the township won't know about that unless somebody you know puts them on notice of that it could be as simple as a I've had situations be rectified with just regular ordinary people like that um in other townships just by a simple letter to the T to the township engineer um so that that may be because there's nothing that we can do other than enforce the storm water regs and that's primarily resolution compliance with Mr Clay um after the applications already already approved and and the DP has their own um regs that they have to be abided by and everything like that but but if it's a grading type of situation um that that could resolve your problem in your block could be a very simple um phone call or letter okay thank you thank you anyone else oh you got a race smart man please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth and nothing but the truth yes I do please state your name and spell your last of the record Lisa fantino F IO r n t n o 61 RoR Ro I just have two questions and I apologize if you've answered it already I haven't made all the meetings uh what is um the distance from Bur bwin Lane to the building I uh it's you know in reference to trees and any kind of uh buffer that um eyesight buffer I I know if you have trees but the building might be taller than the trees um just so the uh residents in the area they walk out their front door don't see a brick wall you that's okay I forgot my second question so right so along burn I think we actually have you go to exhibit e please [Music] anony this is actually the landscape plan that's included in the set and you see here's bwin to the right or to the east of the property there's a area of existing Woods that is remaining in to a minimum width of 50 ft and then we have significant Landscaping proposed behind building number three as well and all of the activity for building three year OPP on the other side so and that was done iterations ago was part of the preliminary approval this has remained unchanged from preliminary to this proposed final plan okay oh my other question I remembered um on 537 now all the traffic has to come onto Allison Road so there may be left turns onto Allison Road has there been any talk about a left turn lane from the county being added for that extra traffic Mr Ray could answer that for you yeah the county approval does not require a left turn light and they have jurisdiction okay so okay that's that might be a problem I think with the this it's hard to make a left turn just for the res I can't imagine all of these buildings and businesses and employees and vendors making a left-hand turn onto Allison Road uh with the current traffic that that goes up and down that area okay thank you thank you a patient man you're a patient man make sure my family and a wise and a wise man Thanksgiving is going to be much easier at your house all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record James renchler r n s l r all right and your address all right my uh question first question is address oh three burwin Lane Jackson New Jersey thank you is you keep referring to you uh address the neighbor the neighbor isn't even a resident that you did address we've asked you since the first time we met you to try to address the issue in front of my house so by deceiving and saying the neighbor you didn't help the neighbor you help the guy I said a I said a neighbor I didn't say all the neighbors res I think I think I think to tell the proper story though your concerns were addressed in the plary I'm going to walk out my front door and look at the warehouse I asked you last year to do something I had no problems I said can't stop progress but the million dooll homes that you just helped out were helped out within a month well I think that's an unfair characterization not because I speak to the engineer who's building the homes well the simple fact is that as I've said twice now and I'll repeat for the third time this is unchanged from an approved preliminary plan this building three but you told me it's 50 ft from the center of the street we leaves 25 ft of buffer there which leaves straggling trees that you could see right through okay my question to you and I asked like I said last year to put either a wall or burm high enough so we don't walk out our front door and look at the house the previous warehouses that we also spoke about was over 100 ft of buffer we get 50 from the middle of the street that's another mischaracterization it's 50 ft from the property line which is the we we we certainly don't include a street in a buffer it's 50 ft of woods on our property with landscaping and no trucks the only thing on this side of the building are cars just like any other parking lot for any other commercial use no need to be sarcastic to what a year ago one of the time guys one of the time one of the time when I asked to do an improvement there but bent over backwards for a million dollar homes I just would like an answer to why did that happen so quickly we first of all we didn't bend over backwards and and more important you moved the building and you lost footage we we addressed your concerns in the preliminary approval all of this work here behind building I didn't talk to you before the preliminary approvals but we were here I think three different times for the did request because I was at that approval we did request uh plantings and um so screening for the back of that building so that you would not we were not aware of that yes well we did that at the first approval when it was originally approved there are plantings if you could could you zoom in please Anthony right in this area just so just to clarify when we were here for the preliminary it was definitely two it may have been a three meetings uh that that encompassed it and there were changes to the plans in the from the beginning to what was finally voted on let's talk about it from the street so this is Berwin to the right correct I'm three what I what I did not describe and I should have cuz I I I left something on the table that I should have explained that that the we've added some Landscaping along the road then we save 50 how high though this these I'm I'm seeing here I'm 64 I want to see it grow am I can I please sorry complete my thought I'm very sorry then we have 50 ft of undisturbed woods to remain and then we have additional Landscaping consisting of and all of this Landscaping consists of evergreen shrubs as well as trees so from the basically from where your where the curb would be if there was a curb Street in there that's 50 ft from there yes okay there's this this design this this double planted roow with existing trees in the center okay greatly exceeds anything required in the ordinance and that was all done at the preliminary approval and I appreciate to making me aware of it okay I thank you very much M Mr renchler I was on the original approval uh and I was pretty vocal about this yes you are the the buffer is significantly greater than what was given over at Adventure Crossing I to that point uh and Mr bordon and uh Mr Feer correct me if I'm wrong we negotiated and we agreed that there' be no Refrigeration on the top of that back building nor a generator or anything that was going to make any noise and it was agreed and they could do it on the middle building which you know I I can't change what you're going to look at but I I'll I'll tell you when I when I drive down uh forgive me I can't think of the the road that's the back of Adventure Crossing Anderson it's it's burned it's growing Now is it going to be 20 foot in in 2 years no but it's going to grow in and you have an existing buffer that's been well supplemented on both on both sides so what I'm telling you is you know I I can't you know as a board member I'm not arguing that fact anymore you know get you from the 30 to 35 foot but I'm just trying to save you some time excuse me we've done everything and Beyond well like I said I understand now yeah okay I mean that's where we're at yep no I'm good with it thank you for explaining Mr knows it I don't know who I don't know your name otherwise would say it both of you that's for sure and just my other question is unfortunately uh it's a traffic one coming out of Allison Road my car and another car were totaled within the last month oh for a for a box truck sitting at a stop sign there that we've come out 38 years there's so much traffic there now even in the off season the traffic studies will not take taken in peak season or or even mediocre season and besides that when you come out those trucks are going to have to go when it's clear if it's clear out two lanes into the third lane to make that left hand turn without a traffic control device you're going to have massive accidents at that corner do we want to have Mr Ray address that I didn't hear I didn't hear a question I Mr Ray come up but I I could tell you that Mr testimony is going to the I just want to be part of him because haven't been up yet when he's been just just rephrase that into a question not going to happen not enough traffic to Warrant the traffic no no I don't want a traffic device I just say it's not safe to have trucks going out there I just told my car a month ago there sitting at the stop sign so for a tra a box truck to go out over this two lanes and into to make that left turn without any kind of device you're going to have a lot of accidents I same to I remember that when you did the traffic study when we did this previously we did discuss this as an issue and you did discuss when you did your traffic study I I could double check I all I can tell you is I've done traffic counts on this section of Monmouth Road for this project and for other projects we had a project down at the intersection at the traffic light where 571 and 5 we've done traffic counts various times of the year for the last 30 40 years years there uh I I the bottom line is the county is aware of all of everything that's going on this is the access that the county approved for the project they have jurisdiction I understand your concern well okay I let me just finish uh the site distance is good at the intersection and I I actually think that the fact that there are two lanes transitioning to one as you're coming up to Allison heading East toward Freehold actually slows traffic down a a little bit it's probably a benefit to the overall safety of the intersection so all I can say is I respectfully disagree with your well i' like like I disagree with what you said about the study I like to see the dates that it was done because I know the ones that were presented were in the in the slow season in that area they'll they'll take a look adjust you with another study or no why don't you just do it during the busy season or medoc that was the end of January is the deadest season in my H in my in my neighborhood and on that road it's not a respectable evaluation of that intersection uh if you heard Mr Ray said that they he upped it by 15% uh to uh accommodate the changes I don't even he's done he's done traffic studies on that road how many years do you think Mr Ray maybe 1085 I think traffic has increased a lot since then so that's even more the reason that it should be done again the end of the day respect these guys went to the county the county is the one dictating we can't the county didn't say you have permission to do it he said the only way you can do it is through them because they're not allowing it so how do we overule the you can't but he didn't say you go do it [Music] there article about the other side of it and getting that there we we don't like it I mean like it at all if they denied access to them to make a left coming out of their own property what's going to make it any better coming out of a road that's existing that no one hardly ever uses except for a residents so let me ask you again how do I over the county I I didn't hear anything that the county said they have to use that that's the only exit they can use that which has to be approved by you guys that's the way I took it we we don't we don't yeah M Mr Ray if you could just I'm sorry I shouldn't be asking I should be here yeah then I'm done I finish okay thanks guys at the end of the day my client spent extra money time and effort to go to to the Monmouth County engineering department to try to get the right in right out even though the Monmouth County regulations specifically prohibit access to the county road if there's access from a local Road available we spent the extra time in money and effort to try to get it we were unsuccessful that's all I can say so what what Mr rker is trying to say and what the board is trying to say is that we have no control over what the county does with its roads we can only deal with the property as we have it given to us so we went through all this at the first procedure if Mr reker and I remember correctly and the county has been petitioned you can go to County meetings and you can say to the county this is not good we cannot is there anyone else that has any questions or we finish with the questions now General comments it's getting a little late in the day any general comments any concerns well let's close and then open okay so we'll close the for formity I'm going to make a motion to close the cross uh examination examination of the Professionals in the applicate and we'll open it up to public comments where you can come speak on just the Fidelity of the project what you feel about the project uh you know that temperament of any comments statements that you want to make now is the time okay so one's been one's been closed now good now we're opening the second portion is there anything else that somebody has to say because we knew you were waiting in the [Music] wings that's fine no that's fine all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name and spell your last Cynthia renchler Reen s c h l r three burwin Lan I only wanted to touch on a little bit of the traffic Thing One More Time those two lanes going into one on 537 are not to slow down traffic I sit there every morning when I go to work and I watch is that right Lane becomes the passing Lane for somebody that wants and that's in fact what happened with our accident and it's pretty horrifying sitting there watching a car come right at you and you can't move so we are concerned yes we can take our concerns to the county also about that road but I just want to say that second lane is not a Slowdown or the slow traffic doesn't keep right it's a race to see who gets from the light to pass Allison Road first um um and like I said truck traffic and the other corner is going to have development with truck traffic it's a lot of traffic right there that's it that's it for me thank you ma'am thank you anybody else okay wait she oh sorry yes you you swear firmly tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do your address record fio r n t i n o uh 61 RoR road again about the traffic Allison Road is a is a Jackson Township Road and not a County Road uh will there be any thoughts of putting a left turn lane from Allison Road onto Route 537 since uh we might have some control over that uh in the future especially if there's going to be added uh business traffic that way the local uh or even business traffic uh that want to make a right-hand turn onto uh route 537 won't be halfway down Allison Road waiting to you know get out of the the interest you know out of the development it has not been determined at this time for this particular project okay in the future one never knows okay maybe if the project moves forward then we can can come back and absolutely and ask those questions any time you're more than wel I'll come three times okay thank you again just so you guys are clear so whenever you have a county road like we do in this situation at least one of them um you need to go to the to the board of freeholders meetings and raise the issue there uh contract contact I think it's in charge of roads now is it still Jack Kelly uh what were the MTH be the mammoth K so whatever County that you're whether it's in Ocean or Mammoth you have to go to the Freeholder meetings there in the respective um County and address the issue there they have the jurisdiction to be able to to walk in and say yeah we're going to do this we're going to put this in here we're going to put that in there and then what happens is the applicants basically to a certain extent they have to contribute to that fund to put put the improvements in um so there is a contribution element to every one of the applicants that that come in whenever there's a respective improvement with a county road but they're they're the decision makers so we only have so much Authority in the sandbox that we operate with here we would love nothing more than to tell every single one of you that you know we're going to put a light in here we're going to do this we that but we're not the adults in the room when it comes to those decisions it's that the the county freeholders are you know and and the respective departments um so that would be I know it's it's easy to come and vent and everything like that but I want to see you guys actually have the ability to go and um and go resolve the issue so that would be the proper for jurisdiction to do that all right all right Mr feffer do you have anything [Laughter] just yes that's fine here I got you to laugh I was here at 5 so I beat you on that one since the beginning we came here hang on again I'm not an expert you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right your name and address of the record James renchler RN s l three Berwin Lane when we left the last time we met here the biggest concern was do an approval or something without out a definition of a contract a warehouse do we have that that was I've anybody read you know it's funny because I've been trying to get that done now for about five years um and we we have discussed it with some County personnel as well and they have not yet come up with a definition for a Contractor's Warehouse um the other towns around us do what what we consider a Contractor's Warehouse is when it isn't a warehouse and that's pretty much what it if it's it's not a warehouse which is a much larger building I understand then it's a contractor and how about ours of operation sorry I think Mr feffer I think in previous approvals we have used a verbiage of I think Mr sh could expound in the verbiage riew the ordinance does specify a certain number of uses that are kind of like an amalgamation of uses uh under that type of definition um I don't remember exactly off the top of my head exactly what they are I know our our planner may have a better um better feel on this but it's it's kind of an amalgamation of uses that are lumped together to to Define contractor Warehouse in the zone that you're talking about distrib and how about ours operation days of the week that's that's going to be based upon the out the uh operations that they attach to the preliminary I think it was yeah we read record yeah 7 a.m. to what I'm sorry I didn't he to six okay and how many days people could be working in the building their offices but but there wouldn't be any deliveries during those other times and days how many days a week six six six six no no deliveries you said that earlier we said that earlier we we have not we cannot come down with the definition however we have sort of created our own and in creating our own we have created limitations and listened to to the residents we're all residents we we have tried to make it clear it's not a warehouse which makes it a different animal and we Define it as a Contractor's Warehouse okay yeah make sure there's nothing else because I don't want to B these again that's okay thanks guys thank you so much just just just I should have said this in my testimony but maybe just to read from the planner's letter so that there's no question it's a contract to Warehouse pursuant to order orance section 24457 A10 that's the ordinance citation thank you yes you need me again or no um what's allowed and what's not allowed to be stored in there you have limitation is everything has to be stored indoors nothing is allowed to be stored Outdoors no I'm talking about chemicals gasoline chlorine to abide by all ter all conditions of the uh Township ordinance and state and count noard materials thank you not for this one but next time we'll see you we'll see you next time anybody else lady on the left all right therefore I will make a motion to close public comment for this application second second Bernstein second all in favor hi insation real quick again uh the application uh previously had received uh preliminary major site plan and minor subdivision approval for contractor warehousing uh that's all that we are seeking um the application that you saw this evening uh complies with everything that was requested at the preliminary uh has not changed in terms of the the nature of it we have complied and try to make it better uh and as you heard testimony we tried to go to the county they've denied uh the request uh to enter onto onto the county road um other than that it's it's it was confirming them except for the sign which is which was previously approved nothing else has changed and we would ask that there be a vote uh in favor of the application thank you for your time any uh closing comments from our professionals thank you any questions or motions from the board I'd like to make a motion to approve call second we'll have a r call vote Please Mr Brey yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes Mr Herman yes Mr rker yes M Rose yes Mr marzo yes Mr wall and Dr Campbell yes thank you congratulations and and thank you for the for the residents for staying and asking your questions we appreciate it it was a long one motion motion most