e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e thank [Applause] you all right everybody Welcome to the April 15th Jackson Township planning board meeting this meeting is convened in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings Act of New Jersey and adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to all sources Madam chairman may I have a motion to for payment of voucher for the recording secretary please so moved second rer may I have a motion oh everyone in agreement I I approval of the minutes for April 1st regular meeting a motion please motion heler second Bernstein we'll have a uh roll call vote please Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes Mr Herman Mr rker yes Miss Rose yes Mr marzo yes Mr Tremor yes Mr wall yes and Dr Campbell yes uh I'd like uh to remind the board uh you received a uh cyber security awareness training notification I did take that class don't count on it being 90 minutes it was more like 2 hours hours uh have Refreshments at hand um it's a D2 cyber security you got the notice on 411 and when you have completed the uh uh awareness training just forward your completion notice that you will get uh to uh misss Morris please all right we should we should do a roll call to open the meeting so uh want to start that please Mr Brey Mr Bernstein here Mr heler Mr Herman Mr rker here Miss Rose Mr marzo Mr tremer Mr wall here Mr Sullivan here Dr Campbell here thank you uh no executive session minutes um M de marzo we have a master plan report yes good evening everyone the master plan subcommittee met last Monday April 8th and immediately prior to this evening's planning board meeting on May 6th of this year from 5:00 p.m. to 6:15 p.m. there will be a public meeting where the 2025 comprehensive master plan goals and objectives and land use element will be introduced the subcommittee is seeking input and suggestions from the residents of Jackson and those with a vested interest in Jackson please note that there will be no questions entertained at this meeting the subcommittee the planning board attorney and the our planning consultant will be on the deis all planning board members are invited to attend as residents of Jackson and will be in the audience further notice for this first public meeting will be forthcoming shortly thank you thank you Miss Morrison any um changes in schedule thank you legal matters not at this time engineering and planning matters nothing here thank you all right then we have our first application M Jennings thank you good evening for the record I'm Donna Jennings from the law firm of w Goldman and Spitzer as the board is aware the applicant this evening is seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval to construct a 1,000 ft addition and approximately 400 squ foot outdoor Terrace onto an existing 2 and a half story single family home with related improvements in addition the applicant intends to convert the building into a private girls religious high school that will accommodate approximately 50 students the property is located at 417 basso Street and identified as block 230001 lot 15 on the Jackson Township tax maps the property is comprised of approximately 4.27 acres is located in the rd1 rural residential Zone which is in the Pinelands area portion of the Jackson Township once the proposed improvements are completed the building will be approximately 7600 ft the application requires no variances and as the board is aware pursuant to the ml the board shall Grant an approval to a fully conforming application there are also several design waivers which will be more thoroughly discussed by the applicant site engineer in support of the approval the applicant will present the testimony the following Witnesses Rabbi Rector in his capacity as the operations fact witness for the proposed School uh Eli Halpert uh as the site engineer and Melissa Mermelstein as the architect as a matter of record keeping the applicant is in receipt of the following reports Fire official review letter dated March 15 2024 Police Department Traffic Safety letter dated March 19th 2024 Engineers review letter dated April 4th 2024 planners review letter dated April 10th 2024 and the tree specialist review letter uh dated April 11th 2024 um with that we could begin um the application okay you usually asked uh Mr Peters and if he has any comments we and we will um Madam chair um I think the applicant um pretty much described the the project um and I'll I'll chime it as we go there's this um several concerns one of is environmental with the pons and how they're going to address his their inconsistency but just in um um interest of time I said I'll just Chim in as we go good thank you Mr Peters Madam chair I took no exception Miss jenning's opening comments um the use is permitted in the zone therefore they are correctly here before our planning board thank you thank you um I was going to start with the rabbi recor but I don't see him in the audience yet uh so what I'm going to do is skip over to Mr Halper perhaps the rabbi did not file his taxes I'm not sure but hopefully everybody else here this evening has taken care of that if not you have a few hours to get to the post office all right you don't have any exhibits to hand out to the board members do you yes I knew they were coming I'm getting getting good evening thank you ah this is what I was looking for this is what I was looking for that's why I asked thank you I would have liked to have seen this before today it's a house yep it's just an extension they [Music] do okay thank you with that we'd uh we're going to start with Eli anyway because a rabbi I'd like to see how the process goes a little bit before he comes up please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth all right and please state your name and spell your last of the record yeah Donna you want to I do all right please State your credentials to the record Eric Halpert last name is spelled h a l P I received the Bachelor of Science in from NJIT I'm a licensed professional engineer and planner in the state of New Jersey I'm familiar with the ordinance and the plans in front of the board were prepared under my direction and you're going to be testifying as both an engineer and a planner or or just one I will be providing engineering testimony engineering just engineer okay uh and does the board accept the credentials yes thank you welcome this broken [Laughter] I'll your outside voice scared we should just dedicate one to you you can bring it as you come you okay um Eli if you could describe the site and the surrounding area if you're going to rely on any exhibits please identify them for the record in front of the uh on the screen is exhibit A1 it's marked exhibit a 1 it's an aerial of the surrounding site the site is located in the Southeastern portion of the town it's in the pin lands area in the rural development Zone rural rd1 the site is shown with a red dotted line around and to the rear of the site is the Pinelands manufacturing Zone the site baso Street loops around to vath streets and the site is generally developed with residential dwellings and again to the rear there are some industrial manufacturing sites and if you could just describe the proposal can you please um go to exhibit A2 the plan before the board is to convert the existing dwelling to a school to service approximately maximum 50 students with approximately 12 to 14 staff members on site at one time the proposal includes an extension to the existing dwelling additional to the propos to the addition is an outdoor Terrace what the board is looking at now is the site plan in order to accommodate the improvements parking is proposed and as much as the site is located in the Pinel lands care was taken to attempt to limit the uh footprint of the uh development of the proposed development to within the area of the property that is already um improved and the existing uh dwelling is built out with a driveway The Proposal in front of the board further expands the driveway to provide parking more than sufficient for the proposed amount of students this project um is under was was submitted to the board and was deemed complete under the old ordinance prior to the one adopted in December and the parking requirements per the ordinance is one per three students per the revised statement of operations that there will be a maximum of 50 students that would require 17 spaces where 27 parking spaces are provided along the driveway as shown over here okay and just one thing I wanted to indicate even though the ordinance was adopted by the township the Pinelands has not certified that ordinance so the new ordinance as as it affects the Pinelands area is not a valid ordinance yet I know that the township is still working through comments I've seen the comments and we're we're working with those with the Pinelands still working on it thank you additional improvements that are shown include um a a a drop off area for 15 passenger fan veins if you zoom in a little bit more then on the screen you're able to see the ability for the Vans to drop off the children it would be anticipated no more than four vans would be required for um the 50 students and the drop off area is provided adjacent to the school separated um by a by a safety Island okay just so the record is clear each van holds 15 passengers the school transportation is via 15 passenger vans yes right and there's four vans proposed that means means no buses correct No Buses correct there are no buses this is a small school and these are 15 passenger vans make that a condition of approval is that yeah absolutely thank you additional improvements include uh expanded septic disposal field because with the expansion of the dwelling and the conversion from the dwelling to a school the septic requirements are greater and it is shown as a an a larger disposal field is shown and with respect to storm water management what's going to occur can you please go to the next page exhibit A3 if you could zoom in a little bit more to the actual site thank you thank you very much additional improvements included with the proposal is storm water management facilities the project will constitute a major development because the disturbance is the added impervious is going to be greater than a quarter acre and the proposal includes storm water management facilities including a forb it will need to comply with Pinelands requirements as well and there remains one inconsistency from the pine lands certificate of filing and that will be addressed via added yard inlets to capture or runoff even from areas of turf and not only from the parking area and that will all be sent to the storm water basin and calculations provide show show that all reduction requirements are met and the reduction requirements will be about 65% reduction the yes [Music] the sorry one minute can you go to please exhibit A4 and can you zoom into the side area additional improvements include uh landscaper landscaping and buffering the plan in front of the board shows individual trees located and the applicant is willing and is able to comply with all the requirements and will meet um requirements of buffering and tree removal there are a proximately going to be approximately 87 trees removed and the applicant will be supplying trees and will be able to contribute to the fund for any trees that are not able to be replanted on the property in terms of buffering along the side and front along the sides in the front what is shown is buffering there are existing trees and as per the direction of the tree specialist the inspector and the engineer the applicant is able to supplement an air buffering remove trees and air buffering and what was shown was a plan where the number of existing trees to be removed is limited however because that may affect screening the applicant is able to add more trees Evergreens to provide adequate screening within the 10 ft behind the building is a trash enclosure trash pickup will be approximate will be twice a week there will be one enclo one there will be one two two two two one enclosure with uh with recyclables and with solid waste and the Turning template shows that a refu vehicle is able to get to the back and pickup is going to be specifically after 8:00 a.m. in the morning and is there adequate buffering around the trash enclosure there is adequate buffering around the around the trash enclosure and the applicant will comply with uh any comments thank you question for the chair was that a condition um that the trash pickup won't be before 8: a.m. no condition has been imposed yet the is offering a condition that will be made a condition and how many days a week is I mean obviously you're not statement you're not it would be anticipated twice a week will suffice okay thank you twice a week before 8: a.m. is that after 8 after 8 a.m. responsibility for the ownership and maintenance of the storm order system will be the property owner and not included in the exhibit but if you're able to bring up the actual site plan we could mark this as exhibit A7 the circulation plan the fire circulation plan Anthony Anthony can you bring up the site plan the circulation site plan do do you have the number the A7 is that I'm going to mark it as A7 there is no it is not marked right now but it is um that's the architect plan if you could bring up the site plan yes thank you and sheet sheet number five please sheet number five this could be marked exhibit A7 this is the circulation plan for fire showing that fire is able to access the building well if it's already submitted to and Bobby we don't need to mark that A7 do the site plan was submitted with the application and I will go through some of the the um comments some of the board some of the review letters all right so we have this as exhibit A7 then you want to Mark at A7 if that's what we just yes yeah well actually let me just ask you a couple questions so with respect to some of the assessory structures on the site are they going to remain or are they going to be removed the accessory structures will generally be removed the revised plan submitted to the board shows most of the structures removed and Anthony can you pull up again exhibit A2 thank you can you zoom in a little bit A2 shows these two these three structures are going to remain to be used as storage the remaining structures the sheds and the agricultural structures to the rear are all going to be dismantled and removed as part of the proposal and did you add some Recreation Area to the plan in addition on the revised plan off of the driveway a basketball hoop is proposed for recreation purposes there are no other Recreation facilities proposed where the pointer is is where the basketball hoop would be located and that is sufficient for a halfcourt basketball game but there's also the outside Terrace on the other side of the building correct the outside Terrace is a part of the structure and that is for that could be considered Recreation do you want you were looking to remove move to the reports to see if uh there's any open issues yeah this is high school high school girl correct high school girls yeah MH and the rabbi will get into the details of the operation when he comes up going through the um some of the issues brought up in the board planner's letter from April 10th regarding sign there are no signs proposed the applicant will not be proposing any signs at all on page five of the review letter in traffic and circulation the letter indicates that a waiver is required as per 2441 197 i1 parking areas and residential zones for uses other than single family and two family dwellings may be located in rear or side yard but not located in any required front yard setback whereas parking is proposed within the front yard as stated as mentioned earlier this is in the Pinelands area and there is care to limit the proposed footprint of development to the already developed portion I do believe it would be justified to maintain the tra the parking area as shown although the ordinance says that parking shall not be required in the required front yard setback a waiver over here I do believe would be justified in as much as the parking was held to beyond the front yard setback although it is in the front yard a waiver would be justified because it is beyond the front yard setback and by having a layout as shown the footprint of development is able to be reduced and therefore it is sensible to Grant a waiver to allow the parking in the front yard because it is beyond the front yard setback uh are you guys putting in Eevee and handicap there is a handicap spot indicated and the applicant is going to provide one EV space as well thank you regarding the proposed curbing along basso streets the existing streets exhibits a pavement width of approximately 24 to 25 ft in front of the property it is about 24 and2 ft it is paved without Curbing and without sidewalk the driveways are proposed to have Curbing and a concrete apron will be provided the applicant is able is willing to provide curbing along the frontage of basso streets in terms of putting sidewalk the applicant will comply with the board's recommendations in as much as there is no sidewalk on either side of the property I believe it would be justified to contribute to the fund and to Grant a waiver from providing sidewalk however if the board would not grant that waiver the applicant is willing to provide sidewalk the applicant will comply with the with the review comments regarding the fire lanes and markings regarding Landscaping can you pull up again exhibit a for Anthony please just I don't want to interrupt your flow but are you done with paragraph C of Mr Ernie's report yes because we I think there's a number of other issues on there that you didn't address so I just want to make sure that before we move on yes okay in terms of the existing improvements to be removed the applicant will in this submitted uh the applicant will show will indicate what is to be removed for clarity included in that the existing sidewalk the extents of the sidewalk to be removed in front of the building and to remain will be clarified the accessible ramp will be shown concrete apron detail is going to be shown in terms of accessible circulation from the parking lot to the to the um structure an accessible spot is located in the corner near where the ramp is and that would be the closest place to the structure and a handicapped uh um accessibility is provided at the closest place to the structure uh an ADA ramp will be is provide will be provided and the grading is such that it will comply with ADA requirements and the other items in C that regard additional testimony that's all going to come from the rabbi okay just the um is it the uh one-way entrance signs um yes all yes all signage signage and markings will all be proved ided as part of the resolution compliance all right and we have the EV ready spaces the uh and no students need to be walking to school correct the the no walking to school no walking and no driving yes that will be stipulated yes thank you uh through the chair may I ask um would you agree to no parking in front of the property yes we can add that as stipulations thank you yeah are you uh requesting that the town that signs be put up by the town is that I think the recommendation that Mr Ernie put in his review letter is it do not uh it's number paragraph C3 uh do not enter signs one way sign should be added to the pl details provided I that's all I was um getting it m Mr Shay Mr svin just asked a question um about no parking industry would the applicant be able to isn't it it's a municipal street right I'm going to defer this one to the applicant is it the municipal Street it is it is yes so could the applicant hang up signs on the municipal Street I I don't think we're going to hang up signs we're just going to direct everybody not to park on basso Street that's I just want to clarify only the governing body could put sign put it specifically on the road way but they can put it you know on their property if need be but okay you going to compl the Landscaping continuing to the Landscaping section The Proposal leaves 10 ft along the sides and along the front for buffering although although presently additional plantings are not shown that was because there are existing trees and the applicant is is willing to comply with any direction given by the board and the board engineer and the board planner whether or not to supplement to remove trees to supplement that with screening or to Simply Place Evergreens in between the main thing is there is sufficient space and there is is shown on the PLS a 10t empty swath for buffering and screening along the sides and along the front regarding lighting the school will the the there is Lighting in the rear there is lighting proposed um wall mounted Lighting on the rear of the structure and I do believe that that is sufficient and the applicant is able to provide more as to be directed by the board but what is proposed I do believe is sufficient foot candles beyond for a solid uh 30 to 40 ft out are greater than 0.5 the lighting will be on timers and they will go off as as per the direction of the board they can go off at 10 at 10 p.m. so real quick just to go back to Landscaping I don't mean to interrupt your flow but is the applicant going to be when it goes down to the Forester uh review letter they going to be complying with the conditions set forth we will comply with all conditions we are not requesting any waivers in terms of landscaping all right tree removal and then I'll defer this one to Mrs J so when it comes down to the traffic report and fire report do you want the engineer or the um traffic uh expert to we don't have a traffic expert since it's a fully conforming application so Eli will answer any questions regarding that gotcha discussed Solid Waste I'm sorry sir you had stated that the uh the lights uh are sufficient have to light up the area 30 to 40 ft behind the building on the rear of the building the wall packs there are wall packs to for the rear of the building so they're capable of lighting 30 to 40 feet away from the building correct why 40 feet be there there is the 40 ft would be a sufficient area for play that would be a nice area the the the the um amount of students in the facility would be no greater than 50 and 40 ft seems sufficient if the board would like but the basketball courts according to your testimony is to the right of the building there is there there the testimony presently being discussed is to the rear of the building and to the right of the building there is also lighting sufficient for the basketball court and for the refuges and that is shown on the plane yes okay so what you're stating to me without being so clear is there's Recreation at night behind the building yeah there could be but there're actually the rabbi didn't speak yet the girls are only there from 9:30 to 3: Monday through Thursday they leave by 11:30 on Fridays and the staff is out of there by four I don't really anticipate anybody there why don't we strike that until we have somebody that can answer that sure yeah because I think it's just going to waste time all due respect okay all right but I I I hear your statement that it's 30 to 40 feet of elimination and I hear what you're saying as far as time and we'll take it up with the rabbi okay thank you after the IRS is done thank you regarding the storm water outfall toward the front of the property the storm water outall is a 10-in pipe and it complies with reductions the applicant is able if the board would if the board would direct to provide more storage in a way that the pipe can be reduced to even less than 10 in diameter I do believe 10-in diameter pipe is not um an eyesore and in terms of the flow leaving the property the applicant is required and does meet the reductions and for example for the 10-year storm the flow out of that pipe will be .14 cubic feet per second which is considerably less than existing that is leaving the property I believe that there would be no issue in terms of the flow leaving the property however the applicant is able if the board would direct to provide greater storage than required in order to further reduce the size diameter of the pipe and but to clarify the size of the pipe is a 10-in pipe and would not be noticed too much in terms of the board Engineers letter dated April 4th excuse me would it be possible to screen that pipe in some manner attractively the the um as part of the Landscaping plan there will be a requirement to have a buffer in front of the property so so there will be a buffer in front of that um in front of that pipe there will be Evergreens in terms of screening low and high there we there can be low and high both yes stipulate please in terms of environment in and in in the board Engineers letter April 4th we have not received comments from the environmental commission the project does not meet the threshold to require an environmental impact statement the certificate of filing issued by the pine lands commission included an inconsistency regarding total nitrogen reduction and that is due to the turf area also being required to comply with the reductions and with the water quality requirements and the applicant will address that by adding yard inlets and Grading in a way to ensure that all Turf all flow from all proposed lawn area to be walked on will be directed to yard inlets and directed to the storm water management facilities and the piland is going to have to approve such a design in terms of utilities a well is proposed and a septic field um is proposed and we will discuss uh shortly the fire recommendations operations will be discussed by the applicant and terms of the letter issued by the Bureau of traffic safety they are questioning the safety the proposed site is located in a residential neighborhood with a post to 25 mph speed limit the proposed site is for a high school how big of a school how many students attending each day a High School located here with the entrance and exit located in a residential neighborhood is not safe with increased traffic to include vehicles and buses the rd1 zone does allow for schools in terms of the safety the school being proposed is indeed a small school it is presently has approximately 38 students and it would be anticipated to increase to 50 students the roadway is a 20 4 and 1/2t a 24 to 25 ft wide pavement and there will not be a large amount of buses there will be 15 passenger vans students will not be allowed to walk students will not be allowed to drive and it should not and proposing this size school as indicated in the letter the Bureau of traffic and safety letter was wondering about the size of the school proposing this size school would not pose a safety hazard and just so the record clear there'll be no buses coming to the site you kind of insinuated there would be there are no buses there are only 15 passenger vans correct in terms of sidewalks they make sure you s 15 passenger vans it's not 15 passenger vans it's passenger vans for 15 students it should be about four passenger vans correct four passenger vans that can hold 15 students thank you again in terms of sidewalk the applicant is will comply with the direction and recommendation of the board whether to supply sidewalk or to contribute to the fund there are no sidewalks on either side of the property in terms of fire safety the Fire official reviewed the plan I'm sorry I'm getting the review letter the the Fire official um letter dated March 15th reviewed the plan and approves the plan and with conditions that the applicant is able to comply with the board Engineers letter indicates there is no access to the rear of the building if the board recommends the applicant is able to supply pavers to the rear of the building as an additional access point for fire although would be requiring that I'm sorry we will require that the applicant is is able and is willing willing to provide access to the rear with pavers to the rear of the building off of the existing driveway near the refuges thank you the Fire official also is requiring a sister of 40,000 usable gallons for fire fighting water and the applicant is able will will comply with that that can be underground and the property is large enough the the seasonal high water was not indicated at all and there is sufficient uh storage for a 40,000g um sister for firefighting water the location to be determined and coordinated with the Fire official excuse me will there be a fire suppression system in the school itself the architect will disc will discuss the actual building thank you for grading and drainage the applicant will comply with any with the comments and will comply with the pinland requirements and with ordinance 24429 and lighting and Landscaping was discussed and that will be all for my testimony what about the Outside Agency approvals are there any we are these are we will we will be receiving approvals from the Ocean County soils are required we do not have them yet they are pending okay any questions from the board members board members any questions from the professionals um just a couple Madam chair um you indicated that um basso Street in front of the property it's 24 and a half the physical condition of basso to I'll say the um adjoining traffic or adjacent roadway system I'm guessing um it's anticipated that um they'll be coming from South Hope Chapel to Ridge to basso to the site correct okay generally the physical condition of basso generally it would be it is in fair condition I I conducted a side visits and it is I don't know I cannot tell you when it was paved l last but it is um there's a there's a limit on what the board can require as far as the road improvements adjacent to the site um but I'm just was curious you know is it is there potholes is it but if it's pass and that's the testimony that's fine the road is in good condition I was there yesterday thank you m chair um you had indicated that um as most of the accessory structures going to be removed yes okay on A5 um I'm seeing um one of the accessory accessory structures that are going to remain and I'm just wondering what that is it's kind of behind the house might be a garage yes so as indic yeah on a on all on each sheet yes three structures are to remain there are a lot more presently that are not shown on the exhibits because they will be removed and there will be those structures shown it is currently a garage it will be it will remain as storage facilities thank you um and the disposal field that'll meet all the um standards from the pilins and the health department yes um is there an um the proposed well um I'm noticing that right next to a trash enclosure Now understand the use and I don't know if we're going to get any type of really um hazardous materials but is well next to a trash enclosure that's the idea is there another place to put it the well can be the well is presently approximately 10 feet from the trash enclosure and it could be placed farther away that would be my recommendation let's move the trash we could make it 20 ft um and me we will move the well 20 ft from the TR the trash enclosure will remain as shown and the well will be moved um and the this well will be used to fill the sistern the sistern will have its own de dedicated well um will it be um automated in that if when they take water out or it leaks will there be a some an alarm system or something that fills the tank back up yes the the these systems do have alarm yes there will be an alarm system yes that's all for no minut I'm sure thank you Mr Peters thank you madam chair um Mr Halper [Music] um we had noted in the Landscaping portion of our viiew that there were possibly three waivers you've indicated that no waivers are being requested so as as a condition of approval the applicant would work with the board's professionals and the certified tree expert for the municipality to reconcile those three items yes okay you had spoken about utilities to the site um you indicated there was going to be a septic system um can you provide given the the number of um folks that are going to utilize the facility can you give the board an idea of what type of septic system we're going to have here is it standard house septic system the stand the the Disposal system will be larger than a standard house system the um it will be similar to a house system typically um Al though it may be counterintuitive sometimes a house system is um larger is required to be larger than a commercial system because people live in the house in the evening um as opposed to in a commercial setting people are going in and out and the use is not as great however this system will be larger it will be similar to a house system and will require the approval of both the pine lands uh and the and the Board of Health thank you um have you or the architect verified that the electric service um in basso street is sufficient for the proposed use I have not um we had asked that there be some testimony about the traffic impacts associated with the development um and I'm not sure we got got anything other than a a listing of these are how many students these are how many teachers these are how many Vans um perhaps you could either provide additional testimony or come back to it later after the rabbi and or the architect testify but I'm not sure we've gotten any real testimony about what the traffic impacts might be from the proposed development it's obviously bigger than an existing single family home so I I think the board and the public are entitled to some testimony regarding impacts from the proposed use yeah following following the discussion of operations by the rabbi thank you that's all I have for now Madam chair I have a couple questions I was doing something before Mr Tremor so it's 60 65 students and staff combined correct so it's probably not the question for you but are they reinforcing this house to hold that type of weight because it's a frame structure the architect will be Prov is here to provide testimony okay I'm going to get back to I'm going to jump on the septic now is that subject to a pin land system or a standard system it is subject to Pine lands approval the system proposed is a standard system in the rural development um and other um other zones within the pine lands the special pilot amphid Drome are not permitted to provide reductions and therefore the application needed to make sure that the system on a standard system is going to suffice for the septic needs okay well just for your information too septic systems don't vary on whether you're there at night it's the amount of people yes 65 people is not a standard septic system it's it's a much larger system but I guess you haven't broached that with the uh Board of Health yet yes this this is the calculations are provided for the amount of people for um with with the proposed septic system yes you proposing a large system like a 2,000 square foot yes uh the system is a little bit less than the the field is not 2,000 square ft it is indicated on the plans but again it is per the um for the calculations required by the Board of Health I don't know what calculations you're going with because the 2000 foot system is for a four or five bedroom home which is roughly 8 to 10 people maybe 12 the the reason why the um the um calculations for septic system provide for different amounts of gallons per day for different uses so for example for residential the um gallons per day is a function of the amount of bedrooms for example for a school it is a certain amount of gallons per day per person and those calculations could come out um are are sometimes may end up being a bit counterintuitive the reason for that is because people live in their house and do a lot they they do a lot in the house they do less in a commercial setting and the calculations take that into account and the requirements take that into account no I understand that I'm not arguing with that point but to me it just bothers me when these applications come and no one's gone to the board of health because they're going to turn around and say are you out of your mind we need a 5,000 foot system in there I mean I I wish that that would be brought to the board instead of speculation and drawings what you want and what what everybody else wants is different I I have submitted numerous um applications in front of the board of mirror sir sorry I am so tired of cut and paste and all the other stuff I really wish that when they you guys came here and and I understand it's a process and a procedure but I'd like to have facts and I apologize if that seems rough but I've installed septics for five I did it for five years I know about them right you know I built houses I know about them too so that's why I I question certain areas I know in that area there are some Pine Land systems which are very expensive and very unique and they are subject to the people in the house not the toilet flushes not the showers whatever else so you know I I just wish that that was handled a little bit differently but we'll get to that but I hope the board notes that that's something we need to look at before it goes any further well you have to make the application subject to the board doesn't have any jurisdiction over the Board of Health septic system well just just to be clear so so what happens in a situation like this if they if they come in and say oh you know we're only we only need 2,000 and the uh Department of Health or D says you know no they need 7,000 then there's no way to put that on the property without creating a variance or a waiver they come right back to this board they can't do squat with that so it it would I I understand that but here's my problem the project's already been started now it comes down to oh we already no no they can't they can't start without they can't even get the zoning permit without the Outside Agency approval for that so so if if the DP or Department of Health comes back and says no no no you guys need something much bigger much larger for this amount of people um then they got they got to come right back to us so it's kind of a a checks and balancing system so to speak but okay um the addition it's 1,65 ft because it numbers vary on here so it's 1065 for basement 1065 for the first floor yes is the addition what is the actual size of the rest of the house I will let the architect discuss the actual house I think is better fair enough um we did the pine lands generator that commercial well that fills the sistern are you going to put a generator because if the let's say the power's out and a fire starts yes I would appreciate that that'd be great thank you um again one of my problems with these schools is nice looking building I like the parking lot and all that there's no sidewalks and to me it bothers me very much you don't have sidewalks because you you're subject to fire drills correct yes and and uh I I think that they should be added to it just so just in case you have a situation where I I believe all schools should have a sidewalk so that you can the police fire anybody can get people out of the way because right now the way it's set up you're just have everybody run out in the parking lot in the backyard and that's not safe so I mean that's just my own observation I'd like to put out there um are you are you referring to sidewalk along the frontage or or within the property I would say um we come out of the I'm thinking that where the addition is you're going to have a basement exit coming out in that area and that's pretty much where everybody's going to go in and out I believe right yes and there is sidewalk proposed there at that spots right but the sidewalk should go out to vasso Street in case of emergency to get people in and out I would think the applicant is willing to we can Supply parking to the street as well yes I I think that would be a safe thing to add to it um so the house you said you're going to do pavers would you know what kind of pavers because I know I've just recently learned about grass pavers which the fire truck will not work we will coordinate with the Fire official I have coordinated with the Fire official before to provide grass pavers and any pavers provided will have to be approved by the Fire official okay well that's something that we're going to take a look at then because you have to understand I grass pavers are two rows it's nice the fire truck may be able to get on it they have Jacks to put out for their ladder you know what happens when the Jack Hits the soft dirt and to put the ladder out tips over the width of the grass pavers will be a fire lane width it will be 18 to 20 ft the applicant is willing to do that and again to coordinate with the Fire official which we have done and that's fine that's one of my points I'm trying to make because the last last time I I didn't address this with something else and it turned out it's a problem but you know I appreciate that thank you um the building in the back the the storage garage how do you get into that is that like a little p area that walks into it right there in the front it is right it is right now a um it serves as a as a garage there is right now access from where my put from in between from from the middle right you realize you need fire department access to that the fire well certainly with the additional rear the fire act there will be there will be fire access kind of picture you got to draw there yes okay um that's it thankk you Mr rker okay um I really don't subscribe to your statement that a school is a less intensive storage use okay um there's a reason why there's not 4 inch piping coming out of that um it's on um so I don't subscribe to the the uh the statement that it's less of a use uh I'm gonna ask you a few questions here um have you done any soil borings out there yes okay where's the water table to grade there was no indication of any seasonal high water this was good sand and there was no seasonal high water okay so how far did you go down on the boring the boring we went down to approximately 12 feet in the front there is no approximate you need to tell me the date that it was done what you came up with where the water was if you went 12 if you went 40 if you went 50 ft this you had you had a license engine do that right this was submitted yes and this was submitted as part of the I'm asking the question because I don't have that information in front of me have does that applied in the drainage report yes [Music] at elevation 109 in the front of the property a soil boring was conducted to 15 ft down with no indication of models or or standing water no water no water so you just went 15 ft correct all right your septic system dosing system treatment system what is proposed as a standard septic system that does not help me okay standard to me is a Ford Pinto it might be a van to him it might be a Cadillac to him standard doesn't tell me anything this is a gravity system I'm this is a gravity system that is not a dosing system it is a gravity system so it's a gravity fed system all the way through it's a leeching system as by the diagram okay that's the answer I wanted to hear thank you any other questions from the board any comments from the professionals before we move on I just I I got a couple so let's just go back to the waivers right so we touched on a couple of waivers so are we seeking waivers or are we not seeking waivers in terms of parking in the front [Music] yard the letter indicates that that's what I'm saying so we touched on a on a possible waiver for uh the front yard right we touched on a possible waiver for uh the uh the parking lot I I just I just want to make sure that we're clear just so I can yes a waiver is requested to allow for parking in the front yard with the justification because it is beyond the front yard setback and the footprint is minimized okay um so is it just those two or or are we seeking more no no other waivers for no other waivers are being sought okay um the four vans that will be bringing students to and from will they be stored on the property or are they coming from another location they they are coming from another location dropping off the students and leaving okay thank you and you are uh expecting two deliveries a day for meals or one delivery a day for Meals one but these are getting into operation so why don't we wait for the operation person to testify please thank you I think that's it for this witness thank you thank you like to call up the rabbi now to go through the [Music] operations the audience will speak when we are finished with the testimony you will have your opportunity not to worry excuse me when we are finished with all the applications Witnesses we will have open to the public yeah they will be here so so what so let me just because we got a bunch of people in the room so let me just kind of set the playing field for what we have here right so what we do is we we conduct a meeting by Robert RS of order all right what that means is that we we break each type or each part of the meeting into kind of its own systematic part so right now is a direct examination um of the W of the applicants Witnesses right and that's what you're seeing you're seeing us and um us ask questions the professionals ask questions the applicant ask questions of of their own professional and putting their own affirmative testimony on what happens that once we close that we're going to open it up for cross-examination of all the of all of their professionals to the public all right um you're able to ask whatever questions you want but it's not a public comment portion once we close the cross-examination portion uh we then open it up to the general comment portion which you want to say two bites at the Apple kind of but the the second public portion allows you to come up and make any any comments or statements that you may feel about the application or or anything about it right um so first cross and then open for the general public and and then we close it and then the board renders a determination right so that's kind of the the sandbox that we're in in all right thank you uh if we could have the rabbi sworn in all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth all right please state your name and spell your last of the record ruven RoR last name r i c h t r ruven r u v n all right and uh qualifications were just a a fact witness fact witness yes so just uh if you could for the record um indicate your affiliation with the applicant I'm the executive direct of the school okay and when you say the school um the school is currently located in Lakewood yes uh where is it located 555 Joe Parker Road in Lakewood and how long is it operated in Lakewood eight years and how many students are currently in the school in Lakewood between 35 and 38 okay and the applicant is seeking to shut down the facility in Lakewood and come to Jackson is that correct yes okay and if you could just describe the school itself its mission statement and and why um we have this particular School rather than the girls going to the uh typical Orthodox girls high school these girls um need individualized attention and they don't do well in the mainstream school so we have a small school for them and that's our that's our mission to give every student a chance to have a education and often times these girls have actually been asked to leave the Orthodox uh high schools correct okay so you're giving them an opportunity to continue their education and get their high school diploma correct okay now with respect to this particular um project if you could uh just for the record they wanted to know uh how many staff members will be at the site and what their roles are so there's going to be a total of 24 staff members working through shifts throughout the day and that at any and the maximum 14 St members will be at school at one time this is being recorded we need you to be quiet because we need to have the recording of This proceeding please thank you and just so the record's clear because I think what not everybody could hear what was being said you indicated that at any given time there might be 14 staff members at the school but they have a total of 24 staff members is that correct correct correct and so a teacher comes they may not come to the site and be there all day is that accurate that's 100% yes okay and if you could uh who's running the school you have a principal yes Mrs Shian okay and the are there other staff members that are going to be at the school full-time yes we have a assistant principal with guidance counselors office staff and teachers okay and if you could describe the school curriculum is it just religious education they get an academic education hence at the end of the day are they going to get a high school diploma yes they will get a high school diploma at the end of the day it's a um academic education it's a religious education it's life skills it's whatever a typical high school is is um get it has we have that for them too on an individual basis smaller classes and if you could what are the hours of operation for the students it's from 9:30 a.m. till 3:00 p.m. that's Monday through Thursday that's Monday through Thursday and the early dismissed on Friday at 11:30 a.m. the staff comes at 9:00 and they leave at 4:00 and how will the students be transported to and from the school 90% will be transported via three or four 15 passenger vans 10% will be dropped off by parents students are not permitted to drive or walk to school okay and will the Vans remain on site no the school Vans will not remain on site okay and if you could describe the schedule of the school year when does the school year begin and end it begins in September and ends in June and in the summer time July and August is the school going to be used for a camp or anything else no no school during July and August at all okay and there are some breaks for religious holidays yes they have typically two weeks of breaks in for religious holidays okay there is a um Kitchen in the existing home that is to remain is there going to be any food preparation on site no cooking will be done on site the kitchen on site will only be used to store and warm the food deliveries which will occur once daily for for breakfast and lunch okay so I believe in our statement of operations we might have said twice but the applicant has corrected us and indicated there'll be one delivery bringing both the breakfast and the lunch since there's only up to 50 students at the school at a time um and who's responsible for the site maintenance the lighting the Landscaping applicant will be responsible for maintenance including building the parking area sidewalks Landscaping lighting utilities and maintenance and cleaning will occur every day and we'll have an outside vent that will provide the actual services in essence that's the same way that you're operating today in Lakewood yes okay and again with extented deliveries in addition to the uh food delivery coming once a day what other types of deliveries do you anticipate coming to the site one daily UPS size delivery will occur in addition to the food delivery okay and I assume the UPS size delivery is just school supplies and office supplies yeah the delivery deliveries include school and office supplies that's what it is and how often did you anticipate the trash and recycling being picked up applicable responsible for weekly trash hauling probably twice a week okay and you heard earlier that um we would uh agree to a condition that the trash pickup would not occur until after 8: a.m. correct and the applicant's okay with that correct yes okay and how about security how's that going to be handled it's video security at this this point okay and that's what you have in Lakewood video security yes okay and what about um student recreation there's no activities or outdoor recreation are proposed there will be a designated area containing a basketball hoop for a half a court and students may use the outdoor Terrace for hanging out and Recreation thank you those are all the direct questions I have I notice uh there is no nurse facility within the building will there be a nurse provided right now all our our staff are um um they have um trading in CPR but uh at this point if there's anything we ever need we call Hola or something like that we've uh encouraged a nurse to be on site in every school we would encourage the same thing this time okay is the applicant willing to agree to have a nurse on site yes thank you any questions from the board Mr Marza I was just reading I wanted to confirm um it says that the existing site has a jacuzzi and a trampoline are they going to be staying there or are they going to be removed removed Mr rer uh could you clarify if there's going to be any summer camp proposed it will not be summer camp okay thank you just going back to the trash um how many trash cans will there be whatever the board suggests well I think uh the site engineer addressed the trash enclosure itself I'm sorry I don't recall how many pants I'm going to have it's a come on up I don't want to testify there will be two containers one for one for uh one for solid waste and one for recyclables and how large will they be four yard Dr Campbell weekend use Saturday Sunday closed closed is this school just is regular High School regular students or any special needs or problem to regular high school they just need smaller individualized classes we have 35 38 children in the school now through 9th through 12th so you know it works they get through school they give them the education and they so so it's not problem kids or anybody with special needs no okay um how do you know it's only 10% are going to be driven there based on how it is now so you're just guessing it could be no we know now that very often the at least 10% of the girls missed a bus and so the parents drive them in you can prove that what you can prove that you can guarantee me only 10% you can't do that it could be 20% it's possible correct we try the the uh come on come on you are you Dr Campbell are you planning on providing um not busing um Vans for all your students and those 10% are students who missed or 10% aren't initially PL uh provided of Advance 10% don't sign up for vans that parents would rather drive the children pick them up so you're just going by the average so you're not going to change your answer that's fine um will anybody be sleeping there no okay are there showers going to be installed in there no I don't think no so it's not like 9:30 to 33 the girls are out what if somebody get something spilled on them and they need to question they go home if I can ask a brief question just a um then this ties to Ada to what extent is it the public equivalent of a 504 IEP or developmentally disabled clientele uh if you can speak to that if it's an appropriate question if not I'll you know withdraw it but that ties to Ada accessibility and to the point of shower if if there are uh particular special needs you may require one frankly um depending on the situation uh so I'm trying to equate it to the public school environment where you may have a 504 an i AP plan it it or or can you speak to that at all unless it's not an appropriate question I'll withdraw it but that would tie to handicap accessibility and things of that nature and perhaps that may even tie to any the design for the window structures or the other related structures in the uh facility you want it for the attorney or for the applicant thank you in their current school they said they don't have any that fit into that category so they're not anticipating it so so I know so I don't believe private schools are bound by um I understand that yeah yeah IEP we're kind of circular we're kind of like circumlocution on the question and I think you know you have a very high uh instructor or care giver ratio so we're just trying to if if you have a statement of operations it's just what what is the operation I think that's some of the questions are alluding to I mean for safety reasons I would think there should be at least one what if somebody spills hot water on them grease or something like that or get something in her eyes you situation you would no I don't think that's the question though it's specific to health and safety of any the tenant or or the uh the students that are there so depending on the risk factors depending on what is needed there may be questions as it relates to either architecture the window design other safety features fall features other types of items that may not be in a typical uh facility or how the outside is addressed it ties directly to health and safety of the students I disagree these are issues well beyond the board you have an ordinance that you're supposed to be looking at this is a site plan application you don't get into the building code you don't get into these other issues this is not something that's why I'm asking the question but that's why I'm asking the question and that's why you're not supposed to answer it then that's just fine that's fine at least it's on the record thank you I don't even understand your point that's fine Dr Campbell um again the maximum number of students that you're anticipating 50 60 50 sorry 50 um so obviously if it' be over 50 you'd have to come back in front of this board if your enrollment increase over 50 yeah okay thank you any other questions from the board Mr Marza um there's a basement what's going to be done with the basement the architect probably is better to address that okay and there's also um an existing kitchen so is there are there any appliances that are going to be remaining in that kitchen again we'll have the architect talk about that because the kitchen's purpose is just to warm the food that comes in it's not going to be any cooking on site Mr rker I'm sorry the engineer had uh indicated that you'd have Wall packs lighting at the rear of the the uh building the lighting would cover 30 to 40 ft is there going to be Recreation behind the building after hours that you need that vast amount of lighting we done anticipate any Recreation a after school no okay so would it be appropriate to reduce the amount of throw if you would consider it for the lighting to a reasonable amount not 30 to 40 feet off the building well whatever is it reasonable U maybe Mr CLE or Mr Peters could advise on that maybe 10 to 12 feet sounds like more reasonable distance I think 10 to 12 it's really it's not really for you know the light the area for recreation it's more I guess for security correct so I would think you know the 40 ft seems seems a little bit excessive the applicant is willing to pull that back yeah say 15 feet with you know the the diffuse guards okay and timers did we discuss the timers on the lighting or yeah they go off at 10 p.m. 10 p.m. any other questions for this witness yeah just one quick question through the chair you mentioned 10 p.m. and I think you said the statement the school ends at 3:00 and the staff was here till 4: why are you extending the lighting until 10: maybe for security reasons okay would you be okay if the board would ask for it to be a little bit earlier what time are you thinking I just know the neighbors probably don't want it so well lit so I'm thinking maybe 8 9 10:00 is a little bit late in the neighborhood like that I think the applicant can agree to that no problem 8:00 p.m. then 8:00 p.m. is fine okay thank you Mr rker oh Mr marzo sorry just one more um are they going to be riding bikes can they ride bikes no no okay thank you madam chair yes sir um Miss Jennings I want to ask your client the only use for the site is the school so the fenced in area in the back that may have had a previous use that use is going to be abandoned yeah and all those structures that are back there are coming off all of them are coming off all coming off okay and just to follow up on councilman Bernstein's comment once the capacity of the facility reaches 50 we have to come back here if we exceed 50 yes any further expansion to the building would also require the applicant to come back here agreed thank you that's all I have Madam chair thank you thank you thank you thank you okay at this time I'd like to call the architect Melissa Merlin [Music] good evening good evening talk loud all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Melissa Mermelstein m r m l St i n and your qualifications sure um I'm a graduate of the City College School of Architecture I'm licensed in the state of New Jersey I've appeared before this board and many other Municipal boards around New Jersey um and the plans prepared were um under my supervision welcome back thank you thank you um if you could uh briefly describe the applicant's proposal and if you're going to relying on any exhibits please identify them for the record sure if we could please pull up exhibit A6 no it's a it's a different sheet it was submitted to the board SEC A5 A6 please thank you very much um so as previously described in testimony we are proposing interior uh modifications and an addition to convert the 2 and 1 half story home home to a girls high school the existing home is 2,592 square ft at the first floor with a proposed 1,56 ft addition for a total of 3,648 square ft the approximate length of the building is 107 ft 11 in and approximately 40t 5 in deep at the first floor um houses a Lobby a dining room one classroom three administrative offices a break room and a restroom there are two existing porches and one deck we are modifying the existing front deck to add an ADA accessible ramp to the first floor the existing basement is 1,485 square ft with again a proposed 1,56 foot addition for a total of 2,531 square ft at the basement level there is one teachers room one Administrative Office five tutor rooms one quiet room and some storage and mechanical area at the basement we are also proposing an outdoor Terrace at that level for extra sunlight and Recreation space to the basement the existing second floor is 1,485 Ft with no addition proposed where um there um will be three classrooms two bathrooms one lounge and one office at the elevation um we are keeping the homey feel that um the the mission statement of the school um proposes with this we're but cleaning it up um from what is existing with new siding and new windows um and again as mentioned a new front deck um and if the board has any questions I would be happy to address them uh the um buildings that are being kept in the very back the storage areas will those be modified to uh mirror the uh siding Etc that is being done in the front yes I anticipate that yes that's good thank you sure I also uh see on the uh first floor there's an extra office that would be uh perhaps good for a nurse's office perhaps yeah as we as we stipulated sure I'm I'm looking for it because there's water source nearby right so it's important that there be water accessible for the nurses office absolutely agreed all right thank you and um is there a fire suppression yes the the building is required to be fully sprinklered with a fire alarm system any questions from the board Mr rker will there be an elevator for the building there will not be um there's not required to be so so if someone is downstairs um you're assuming that they're there without any physical limitation so there is an ad accessible ramp to the ground floor um and code does not require there to be an elevator um in this building for a number of reasons I can go through them if you'd like um there's equal facilities at the ground level as there are on the upper and lower levels and so no elevator is required for from that perspective um from the size of the building um as well as the rehab code and the international building code that govern this project there's no elevator required okay so you're over the 50% for the rehab code we are right so that would mean you'd have to bring it to 100% compliance well how do you qualify 50% is the question I'm ask I'm asking you if you're if you're modifying 50% of the building you know you're adding on to it you're increasing the the square footage you're renovating it under the IBC we are still not required to put an elevator okay so I'm trying to get the clarification so if you've gone over the 50% threshold you have to bring the building itself into 100% compliance regardless of the elevator is what I'm asking you uh sorry right I I I agree with Donna sorry um the building envelope is not being changed I I would not qualify us as modifying 50% it doesn't matter about the building envelope has changed because you're putting an addition on it and you're you're going into territories I'm assuming you know I haven't been in the basement but I'm assuming that basement is a basement down there with crickets and crawling things and you're going to you know renovate it and occupy it so you're reusing that for a different use you're putting an addition on and you're renovating the building so my my my question to you is are you over the 50% I would assume you are so my question then is if you are over 50% do you have to building bring the building up to 100% compliance with all the codes the IBC fire this that the other thing without touching the elevator that's a separate understood um again so if we are over 50% then we will bring the building into full compliance with IBC okay I don't know if you're 50% does anybody here know if you're over 50% well we will make that determination well I think it should be made tonight uh no actually your building department would make that determination so this would be subject to getting confirmation with the building department it's not a planning board issue and we can go into the details to determine whether we are or not with takeoffs and uh you know pricing out this project we haven't gotten that far the building department could care less about pricing you know they don't care if you got vinyl foring or you got marble that's how the rehab code defines whether we are 50% or not is 50% of the price of the project the price of the project that's correct not the building envelope that's correct are you going to have an external PA system um speakers outside is that a plan no no you'll stipulate no outside speakers yes thank you I have a question uh even though it may be building department it's a concern for the planning board the addition you're putting on it's a walk-in basement correct there sorry there are stairs down to the basement level the addition is going to be flush with the first floor so that's raised a couple feet above grade and then the basement addition will be at the same level that the current basement's at correct but can you walk in from the outside looking at the left hand side it's below grade right that's your entrance so that's one I mean the main entrance is the front door that's where that's that's ad Lobby on the left side of the building that goes down to the outdoor Terrace right yeah that's so that's basically walking in through the basement on that Terrace so you come down there's an outdoor uh area that you're still outside the building and then there's a door inside does that answer your question so there's no entrance into the basement from that outside there is From the Terrace correct there is okay so it's ground level yeah okay now with that addition does that give you an entrance into the rest of the basement from that addition the addition yeah so at the basement once you're inside the building it's contiguous with the rest of the basement okay so it's going to have an open Flow and yeah um are there any other means of egress out of that basement absolutely so there's that outside door that you just described and there's an interior there two ways out of the basement which is code okay yeah um are there any windows in that basement sure with wind uh and and we are proposing um a window well I believe outside the teachers room great that was I was going to ask an eass window okay great thank you MH yes sir [Music] um these building plans will have to get approved by the municipal building department correct absolutely thank you um you're satisfied that given the increased use and the number of persons in the building that there are sufficient means of egress and ESS throughout the site absolutely that's all I have thank you thank you um than my um just a quick followup um I I thought I heard there was um the kitchen was going to remain but you just use for heating of the food but I'm not seeing a kitchen area on on the floor plans sure so um in that break room area so there's a there's currently appliances in that area and that's where the lunges that are delivered to the site will be warmed so they're delivering to the rear of the building they are coming through the front door to the break room adjacent to the dining room I'm not seeing when they come into the lobby how do they get to the break room around the stairwell kind of um adjacent to the secretary office and then hang left I see all right thank you sure I have a question the new uh the front door will that be ada8 compliant absolutely there's a ramp to the left any other questions this witness everybody good I just want to just recap a couple of things everybody good okay um all right so let's just go back to security just real quick so uh the doors is there going to be a swipe card system so that like a stranger can't just randomly walk into a home with 25 high school girls in it um I don't 50 50 it's it's equivalent of walking to a lion's den but let's say that somebody wants to I don't think that there's a there's definitely a lock on the door to closeup shop in the afternoon I think that um the client would maybe be amable to add a window from the secretary office well there is actually an existing window sorry right there um's kind some kind of access system so that people just can't walk into the home um it's the equivalent of what we've done with other projects that window right there is the is that front office so access would be allowed or denied you know by the secretary I ask a question for a second I know in past applications you guys had discussed before having a camera system yeah about connecting to the PD is that where I is that was my next question yeah I believe the applicant would be amable to that sure yeah it's it's a they link it up to the police department so that if anything happens the police can just automatically just brief question is that a a ramp I see so you don't have to walk upstairs if a child has mobility issues absolutely yes so that's we're modifying the sorry we're modifying the existing um front deck that goes side to side right and that's the ramp right here okay thanks yep and as Mr Halper indicated there's sidewalk from the a parking spot that's adjacent um next this is kind of just more of a clarification so um obviously you're going to have to supply everything just to expand on what Mr Peters was saying you have to supply everything to the building construction Department right this is kind of just more for everybody's Clarity so uh they come back number one you're going to have there certain aspects of the the Ada and IBC and everything that there's no grandfather Clauses right so you're going to have to um obviously you know go up to the to the the highest standards that they're that's right everything that's modified will be Ada very very few grandfather clauses in with the Ada and with the IBC all right that's number one um number two if if the construction of building come back and say guess what building can't support this many people you have to replace this beam or that beam or put a support beam in or do whatever and that and that changes the envelope of the building or the construction of the building in any way whatsoever just so everybody is clear then they have to come back um because they're going to have to seek a different type of approval as long as it's not something that they can cure just administratively with the uh with the construction department so there's a kind of a checks and balancing system because I know that people are going to have some of those questions so I'm just kind of putting them out there because I've lived that so um that's just kind of informally how that is is taken care of at that level um that's all I got you didn't ask the question I stopped oh about the cameras to the PD are the cameras going to be connected to the local police department yeah he asked that question then we answer SP that I'm sorry all right so condition of approval some kind of door security system and um the security system linked up to the police department yeah all right Miss Jennings if you're finished with your um testimony I'd like to take a 10-minute break make sure your uh uh professionals stay in the area so that the public can ask questions absolutely 10 minutes e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e understand the first portion of the public session will be only questions to specific people not General comments will someone please move to come back into session I move that we return to full session second faiv I somebody please move to open the public session make a motion to open public session for cross examination of the professionals I'll second all in favor I I all right guys uh just in case you didn't hear me last time with this this first part is going to be the cross-examination question part right so you're going to be able to come up and ask any relevant questions to whatever expert put uh testimony on and you ask him about that testimony all right so who wants to race to the podium first Larry Schuster 1467 uh Jordan Avenue all right hang hang on let me please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth absolutely all right first name last name for the record spell your last Larry Shuster s c us t r all right and your your address of the record uh 1467 Jordan Avenue all right I'm a direct neighbor across the street uh the engineer question with this 10-in pipe for the over rain overflow where is the water going after that presently the water um drains off the site into my yard I'm sorry into my yard the the calculations um the the requirements for the stormm Water Management facilities require that reductions are made to make improvements over the existing conditions so presently the property is draining I'm going to open up the plans the property presently drains um North toward Jordan Avenue and right now there are reductions that are required and that are met so there will still remain some flow that will be going off the site but it will be reduced so the flow is going to be reduced correct but the pavement is going to be increased correct that that is correct that the require for storm water management are that when threshold is met of a certain level certain amount of disturbance or an increase in Pavements um then not only is the uh proposal required to maintain the existing flow the requirement is to improve and reduce the flow so you already know there's a problem there right correct by saying it's going towards Jordan Avenue Flow always must go somewhere into my property flow always has to go somewhere there are as there are um drainage facilities um neared by the intersection of Jordan and um yeah gravity fed and and the an applicant is required to make improvements certainly if there are existing issues in the larger area the applicant is not able to improve over the larger area but the proposal does provide the reductions required so it will be better than existing okay uh next question with 4.1 Acres I believe it is 4.27 why is everything centered to the front of the property the reason for that is the um applicant is Desiring to provide an extension and limit the footprint of development okay thank you all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please uh state your name spell your last of the record sure it's Dana Scot bring little the other guy was a little bit taller than you Dana scato s c t first name Dana D na a I live at 470 Bass so uh my questions are also for the engineer the basement does the basement have a bath does a basement have a bathroom facility I will let the architect answer um uh building questions I think is a better idea all right my the reasoning behind my question is you say it's going to be a standard septic system standard septic system is just a tank that goes to a field in the pine lands yeah ma'am just just speak into the microphone just so we can yeah according to njc 7 colon 9A a standard system is a tank that goes to a field we're in the pin lands because of the nitrates you have to put in an advanced wastewater treatment system your plan shows one tank and a field that field will be sized based on students teachers it has to also include the Food Service just bringing in food still has to increase the septic field size in addition to that if you are putting in an ejector pump in the basement the ejector pump then stipulates that you have to have 1 and a half% size increase in the tanks and the field the field that is shown is just the minimum 10 ft to the property line it does not look like there is any buffer to the parking lot or the sidewalk if you look in the code the code does State any Improvement shall be 10 ft so you should have a 10-ft buffer from That Sidewalk you have to remain 25 ft from living space in that basement and it's going to have to have two tanks at a minimum so that's not shown on the plan so I want to make sure there's a stipulation put that the health department include in their review that there's food service whether it's delivered or not when they say they're going to keep the food hot they're also are going to be required to have a food license from the Board of Health any food per njc 8 colon 24 has to have a food license okay do do we have any qu we got to ask questions now now is the time for question is are they putting in that ejector pump right so so let's just direct the questions at the profession I'm asking because I'm not seeing take take him one at the time okay so so to answer your questions um the pine lands requirements um on this application um actually does not allow for the uh reduction that would um be provided for on a residential property by providing something like the ampid Drome and that is why the gravity system is proposed certainly the applicant would have liked would have wanted to if not for um njac um s colon 9A no no if not for um the pine oh for the pine okay Pine is different and this this plan was before the pine lands um so the gravity system is what is proposed because that is what is required to be proposed and that limits the amount of development that can be placed on such a system because as you are aware the Pineland special ampid Drome system allows for certain reduction for example you would not need 3.2 Acres it can be placed on one acre and there are other reductions that are allowed with the special Pine Land system correct this proposal is not allowed to utilize that and therefore the proposals required to use what is referred to as the standard the standard full size they're not getting the reductions as a gravity system we're not getting the reductions correct and therefore a proposal for a school on this in this area would only be possible for a school such as this size a small school anything larger than this um would require the special Pine Land system which is not allowed and is not possible so and are we going to keep it under 2,000 gallons per day yes that's C yes it is it is less so so going through your question so so first um this proposal is required to not utilize any reductions that are normally utilized for residential dwellings and therefore any school larger than this would simply not work at all um regarding the ejector pump yes there is an ejector pump I can't speak to specifically if there's a bathroom and ejector pump could be for a sink also and the architect could answer that question but yes there is an ejector pump in terms of um Food Service there is no this is not considered Food Service bringing in food and warming it up is not food preparation it is considered food preparation under njc Aon 24 under the Board of Health it the food preparation means preparing food it does not mean bringing in food serving food you can serve bottled water and you need a food license so they would have to be licensed by the Board of Health because they're providing food to a child that's paying for that service what I'm I'm ref I'm not referring to the license what I'm referring to is the sizing requirements of the septic system that's what I'm referring to I I kind of beg to differ I mean the food code is quite or the 7 colon 9 a I believe it's section 7B it takes right into it commercial food service once you are required to have a food license because you are commercially selling that food to that child and actually it's the food has to come from a wholesaler the wholesaler sells it to the retailer the retailer is you or the school that's providing that service to the child so the health department has to review that you say that the food's coming in once a day I I under the food code it has to be held hot or held cold you have to wash hands you have to wash dishes that you're heating things which is a food service which is part of part it's just questions now you can testify later that's part of the septic question is there are they taking into account the food service and the ejector pump is required under njsc are you going to take that into effect for the septic the ejector pump is taken into account and the food service is not required as part of the septic sizing I don't want to conflate the licensing requirements for serving food with bringing in food where there's no food preparation okay that's fine I'm a licensed registered environmental health specialist with the state of New Jersey for 30 years I do septic systems for a living this is why I'm questioning it because in the town and the county I work for we require that it's part of the state code just just questions just just cross I I know I know it kind of gets convoluted it's easy to cross over but uh question do you have another one why why is everything being proposed in the front yard can the septic be moved to the backyard to be made bigger we don't need bigger the reason why the septic is being proposed where it is is because they're again there was a desire to limit the footprint of the development um big bger is not required it could be placed in the back but there would be no reason to place it in the back okay I think I'm good for now [Applause] okay any other the takers all right please raise your right hand do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Rebecca Zer I just bring the microphone up your mouth Rebecca zanger s z a n g e r and your address 1458 Jordan a um I believe that my question is going to be tailored towards the school [Music] representative think you got to get some money you might have broke we're running out of mics hi yes you stated that you are closing in Lakewood why are you now moving from Lakewood to Jackson we're having more students and we have a bigger piece of property okay thank you so now my second question is going to lead into my third question I noticed on the plans that there is a room labeled quiet room what is the need or use for this room quiet room for think just being yourself so what type of students would be using that room what would anyone anyone anyone who just desires just a little space private space so are you anticipating children with behaviors behavioral issues no no okay I have history working with students in a high high school age students in a non-conventional setting much like those that will be attending the environment the school like environment that you are attempting to describe what are the procedures if a student elopes repeat the question again what would be the procedures if a student elopes if a student tries to run away from his from the home no from the school you would have to speak to the principal about that so do I have an answer to my question question do you have a taser gun unfortunately that would be child abuse the child runs away from school yes and do what with the student and what and do what with the student call the parents and let them know that they ran away from school okay so then what is the danger that is posed to the residents in the community no danger why is there danger so what would happen if a student were to run from school and then get hurt on my property as they're trying to hide in my Barns and in my [Music] garages okay all right so I think this is way too speculative and not really relevant to the operations of the school but these are genuine questions it it's it's relevant it's it's it's it's relevant towards the security of the school no I I fully I fully understand that if we're if we're going to direct the security question direct it in that way okay not not I'm just saying not not in you know am I going to be held liable am I oh no that wasn't my question at all I'm more stating what is the procedures if a student were to Let's direct it towards procedures the safety procedures and stuff like that so what are the safety procedures if a student were to a loc don't know well I think she's asking more about the safety procedures that the school take into consideration to prevent something like that from happening is that yes that is correct [Music] Okay one minute all right oh are all the doors locked they're they're all they're all locked so there's no way for children just to kind of get out of the building and roam around the neighborhood right well that's fair point ladies and gentlemen this is being recorded we cannot have this type of noise only one questioner at a time please thank you if a child runs way goes what leaves the school we call the parents the parents can't pick the child up from where they track them on their phones okay thank you Mr rker through the chair everybody this isn't a Play You Don't Clap this is testimony uh don have sit down for a second please M Jennings I'm sorry um does does the applicant have competent persons there to to attend to the children so you have you you have you have competent people in your employee at at this location competent he said competent competent yes okay and reading your statement of operations there's a minimum of 12 right so you're you have a high ratio IO to Children correct yes okay so your your your faculty is trained to deal with this kind of stuff correct okay and you're satisfied with their competency correct correct so if if if a child God forbidden needed CPR or they had a laceration or something like that you'd be able to deal with it correct correct all right so just to clarify this a little bit of a debacle here if someone were to be locked out and wander the property you would know that they were missing correct correct okay and you have a procedure to get them back into play can keep them in the building correct exactly okay thank you thank you and may I ask a a question you have an existing facility in Lakewood um has this ever been an issue in Lakewood where someone has run away from the building it was never an issue if no okay and let me just kind of set the sandbox that we're working in here guys so when when an applicant brings an application before the planning board what we have the ability of determining and ruling on for either approval or denier is whether they check all the boxes okay and those boxes in the checklist are basically the or the standards in the ordinance the standards in the ordinance are height setbacks is it the permitted use is it the non-permitted use is it the conditional use uh the Shrubbery the parking spaces all different standards that they have to check the boxes when it when it comes down to speculative things like that we we can't we can't they're not any of the boxes that the board has a jurisdiction over the board has jurisdiction by case law as an extension for the for the municipal land use law to take into consideration you know safety and Hazards and um to a certain extent the the the hours of operations and and the operational standards and um policies and procedures and stuff like that of the applicant's business but when when you get too speculative it doesn't we we we don't have the jurisdiction to deny or approve an application based off that I just I just want to make sure that like everybody is clear on that just so we don't go down lines of reasoning with liability or you know if if somebody runs out of the property runs three houses down what's going to happen the Bo doesn't have the ability I would love to have the ability to you know take that into consideration but but based upon the Supreme Court the Appel Division I mean this Banus law and the statutes and and Congress we don't have the ability of doing that um just to kind of prevent just everybody knows the sandbox that we're operating in all right um now it's your turn can I to the chair could I just ask one quick question just to clarify um this is not a school for children with special needs this is a school for children who just need a smaller education setting than the typical private school in the area correct okay do you know what the typical class size of of similar of all all the other girl schools all girl schools in the area are thority children per class and how many classes how many usually 100 200 how many girls are usually per in each grade so this is significantly smaller this is just meant to be a smaller academic setting correct at this point we have 38 tops children in the school through four grades four grades the typical school has 30 children per grade okay but these they're not special needs children correct okay all right and just an extension of that you have policies and procedures in place in the school um making sure that kids just can't leave the room and disappear right correct okay okay okay your turn uh please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes yes all right uh please state your name and spell your last for the record Deb Jones j o n s okay and your address yeah oh your address ma'am heison Road Jackson um my first question is for the business administrator you said that there will not be parking on basso but you're also not asking for signs from the township is somebody asking for signs because if there's no signs there who how are they going to know not to park and if the police try to ticket them for parking won't they just say they didn't know you can't follow a direction if it's not put in front of you we will advise everybody that is coming to the school they're not allowed to park on basso street there's plenty of parking in the parking lot as the students are not allowed to drive with all due respect I work in a Jackson school and we also tell our parents that they cannot park on the streets in the neighborhood and they still Park so if there's no signs you can't yeah you can enforce something that you're not putting a sign for so will you be requesting signs from the township no and I don't know why anybody would park on basso street and walk 230 ft when they can park in the parking lot right next to the building well you know why because at the end of the day when the parents who are dropping off and picking up people don't want to wait in the traffic this is you're talking about up to 50 kids this is not a school that has thousands of students well I agree to disagree that we're talking about 50 School 50 kids now but we this approval is limited to 50 I cut you off I should be able to finish my sentence go ahead thank you every school you can say it's 50 kids but you're also saying that these are children that don't have IEPs that they don't need to have IEPs so that means that they're not special ed of any kind have they been tested because if they're being asked to leave a general population there's usually a reason I know this because I work in special ed my kids can't be in a full classroom there's a reason for that so without them being tested I don't think anyone here can say they're not special needs so are they tested before they enter the school ma'am just just everybody's clear we don't the board doesn't have the jurisdiction like by any by I understand that no let me just let me just finish I because I really just want to make sure that everybody's clear on this when it comes down to I mean we we can't dictate the the business operations of of a private um of a private company at the board level we we can put stipulations on on what they can and can't do on the site and stuff when it comes down to their business practices and and what they do procedurally and and policy-wise we we don't have the authority of doing that but I'm not asking you to make your decision based on that I'm asking as a taxpayer in this town to know that my tax dollars are being properly used and in this application it is a question it's even when it came down to asking a simple question of alotment alotment doesn't mean a kid just running away it's a child that is escaping for a reason right but so I'm not I'm not asking for an answer for that I would just like to have somebody speak who has a little bit of knowledge behind where it's coming from so that when you guys who are representing us are putting this forward I want to be able to put my head on the pillow and say they made the best choice has to be the question has to be relevant to something that the board is jurisdiction to make a determination on that that's all saying understand that and the jurisdiction is the amount of people so I'll go past that that's fine as far as the pipe that you spoke about that's doing the water okay that's Eli so hold on a second okay Eli Mr Jennings I just have a question to answer Miss Johns for one second about the parking would the would the applicant be um adverse to asking the governing body to look into putting us a No Parking sign in basso uh we can certainly ask because that would be an ordinance I think and we've done it before we've done it before we've asked applicants before and then that request comes to the governing body and Council and the mayor's office we'll look into it right so we'll ask but we're not be going to be obligated to actually make sure it happens I mean we'll ask if the town doesn't take action and do anything it's not really on the applicant right Miss Jones just so just so you're aware I think the township just recently passed ordinances that further restrict parking on public roads on on Township roads um I think it's a much in enhanced stricter form of parking than what's in the past I I don't specifically have I don't have an ectic memory right so I don't have photographic memory so I don't exactly remember what the standards are per this street but I know that they're much more enhanced version so so when it comes down to the policing Authority that the township has they're in a much better spot to do it right now um and that was just recently done I believe are you talking about the ordinance the Township roads that go to County Roads I I I believe whatever the ordinance was it just enhanced the um parking the parking uh restrictions yeah all right well if they're going to do their due diligence that would be wonderful um the pipe you're talking about the drainage but and you're saying you don't have to make any of these accommodations but for your neighbors around you wouldn't it be something that you guys could look into so that you're not taking your problem and dumping it on someone else the the applicant is willing just to clarify that that um flow is not um it's not a problem when it rains it goes to the low point and the applicant is making sure to provide reductions and yes the applicant is willing to Pro provide reductions greater than is proposed and is required so right now there is a 10-inch pipe which is not a large pipe more storage could be provided to allow for an 8 in pipe there has to be some outflow it had right now it's going somewhere it has to go it always is going to go somewhere and although the applicant is providing reductions the applicant can provide more storage to provide for a smaller pipe well I think that would be good considering you're putting pavement where there's grass which is taking on the water that pavement will not take on and then my question is for third person and I'm sorry I don't remember your name Melissa architect you had said about the front door being ADA Compliant and maybe I missed this when I was listening but if the front door is going to be ADA Compliant does that mean the bathrooms are as well ADA Compliant absolutely the bathrooms are ADA Compliant okay that's all I wanted to know great thank you Mr C just um just so I I have everything under everything in the back of my head um guys if we can if we can just keep keep it down um and we got to keep the whispering down a little bit because we have uh transcriber who's going to be going back and and going through everything so we have to make sure that everybody that one person speaks at a time there's no overlapping testimony it's hard to do because there's always background shatter but we got to keep the background shatter to a minimum all right um but when it comes down to the discharge Mr CLE the D and and the Department of Health they they take adjacent Property Owners discharge and water flows and everything like that in consideration right correct correct the regulations the township adopted the ordinances take into account and the pons require certain reductions Pand also takes a look at it as well and before it moves forward um the applic or the pil would have to issue a letter of no further uh review which would um uh only be issued if they bet all the reductions and it sounds like the applicant's willing to do more by reducing pipe size will hold more water right but there still has to be governed and looked at by DP pin lands Department of um I don't know about um de in this case but p is regulatory agent and I don't know if the health department would get involved with storm water the the um septic flows and a water supply definitely but not so much on the um storm water right um next my concern is it sounds like there's a pre-existing water condition already that's what I was yeah so if there is already a pre-existing water condition then it's flow has not not not a a proper answer because then we have a bigger issue because now you're going to create more of a water problem so I think that's the impression I'm getting correct me if I'm wrong the there is an there there is an existing um flow off of the property like all properties have flow and an applicant is required when adding pavement which without doing anything would increase the problem obviously the applicant is always is required to not only make sure that he is not worsening the problem he is required to um improve upon any outflow okay I understand all of that and I understand what the people was saying but I think they're kind of asking you if you can pipe the water somewhere else or further back on the property which would make sense to me if you already have a pre-existing condition when it rains it floods are you prepared to be responsible for a neighbor's house that gets flooded because of your issue to the the reason why the applicant is willing like I just spoke is willing to further um ad storage beyond what is being what is shown right now in order to further reduce the pipe the um decision of where flow goes is really the grading is really the natural topography to place an outfall at a higher point would create yeah where where where I was going you cannot do that M Mr karowski yeah you're not allowed to approach you should know that do turn all right so so where I was where I was going with this was that what's what's going to happen here just because I know that some people have concerns with the storm water right with their the storm water is going to be now up to the highest standard as opposed to where it was before right so it's not going to be grandfather then based upon the new storm water RS on top of that what happens in the Outside Agency approval is the pine lands are now also going to have to make sure that that what they are doing isn't going to be a detriment to to any adjacent Property Owners neighbors things of that nature so when they take a look at the storm water right they also take a look at what the impact is going to be on the the adjacent property owners and everything like that so I wouldn't say it's a checks and balancing system but it certainly helps now now in certain situations you may want to have if you do have that significant of a drainage issue rainwater management as you have right now you may want to contact the township uh engineer and just kind of put you know just say Hey listen something's going on here may need to you know take a look at this all right that that's one way of trying to rectify the situation all right so this there's all different ways but this in all honesty there's going to be a double checks and balancing system in place here to make them go in and put the new regs in the new codes that are much stricter than the old ones um and and they're going to have to get past that so if I don't want to put anybody at ease but that may help a little bit um I'm sorry I totally cut you off when you were coming up to the stand and if I could just to reiterate um Eli the reduction is 65% reduction correct there are different reductions referring to flow quantity and quality and the applicant is meeting and is going to exceed the requirements all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right my name is Diana shedan s e d d i n I live at 1433 Jordan Avenue my question is for the gentleman you're asking for a waiver for the parking lot in the front we're asking you why and put it in the back CU it's an ey sore when we look outside and we see a parking lot when it's a rural area it's Farm we don't want to see a a school a parking a parking lot yeah the the board would be um would be deciding to act on the waiver the reason why we the applicant is seeking to have the parking in the front is because this is the PIN lands area and keeping the um parking with with in the footprint of already developed area is preserving more of the Pine Land is preserving more of the property and more of the pine lands and although this is um called a waiver this is made sure to maintain the parking beyond the front setback so all although it is in the it is in front of the building but it is beyond the front setback it's not within the front setback and that is why why I believe that it is Justified to Grant the waer that's that is why putting it in the back would require a lot more disturbance than is shown obviously it would be disturbing a large amount of property in the pine lands and it makes sense to maintain it in the front with screening um as is required by the landscape plan how much property do you have in the back to where you can put it you're you're putting already for the fire trucks on the side so if you put the parking lot in the back and you leave the front alone the the right right now the rear of the property is undisturbed for now you're correct you're you're concerned with the with the look and I understand and I I understand um a school on basso Street what is a school on basso Street doing there the school is a small school there is not a lot of parking and it will be screened and Beyond the front setback to to place it in the back would disturb more and I believe it is it makes it is more sensible to keep it in the front through the chair okay could we pull up the screening plan for a second on [Music] there ladies and gentlemen you cannot speak out which exhibit is it um um you could pull up a A3 A3 [Music] yes that's [Music] it can you can you point out on with the pointer the screening yeah sorry the front setback is right along um where I am pointing the front setback is 80 ft and the parking is made sure to be beyond the front setback this section over here will have screening so could you describe the screening the screening will be a combination of Evergreens and shrubs also and someone driving or living in the neighborhood will be screened from the parking area via the screening along the required screening along the sides the front and the wood both both sides there are existing trees also that are going to be kept the screening goes along the width of the entire property the screening goes along the entire property it goes along the sides of the adjacent properties and the front um of the property because the street ofs residential along along bass so would the applicant be okay with maybe adding a little bit more screening yes the applicant can add more screening there's a 10-ft requirement the applicant could add could provide 15 fet or that would be nice I think that would be something that I think would keep the role basso which is what I think the residents are concerned with over here yeah we definitely because it is an eyesore I mean I can see where you can go straight in the back but that driveway straight in the back and you could do all your parking back there cuz that's all where the horses were in the back they're tearing down the uh building right there to the left all right so so would the applicant be amendable to um screening putting the additional layer of SC screening on to make sure that you can't see it from the road just B yes the applicant is willing to provide a 15t w and an extra layer extra layer 5T an extra layer yes okay thank you right thank you sorry about that just right in notes uh please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth always all right and please uh state your name spell your last of the record so first name Stephanie um Marcel wenberg m a r c i l l e w h r n b r g 598 basso street so I guess maybe I missed the conversation earlier um it could be for you or planning board or zoning but isn't this a residential area area and why are we putting a commercial building what happens PRI private schools are permitted use in this zone so it's it's a residential maybe the planner could um give more detailed analysis but the the gist of it is that it's a permitted use in the zone therefore as long as they can form with again going back to the check boxes of everything they have to comply with pursuant to the ordinance you that height set stuff like that then it's a it's a conforming use so what was the desire to come to basso it's it is literally a quiet neighborhood people like that the traffic is going to be unbearable I don't have the answer maybe he does somebody does I just think quality of life could be different but I just don't understand why you chose and then if you can bring the screen back up with with the house because if you want to be in bass on basso you should conform to the houses and what's around no ey sore there was no respect and then for the gentleman for the water to go into his area sounds more like so yeah we we we have we have to ask questions in this part next part is going to be the general comments understood but I just want to know why that but well so so let let's here's the house right and why don't you just make it look uniform like a homestead so put the parking in the back and have it look like it's a home and not a school so I think that's my question because we want it to look like a home well I think that looks like a home I mean I guess it's a matter of opinion I see parking lot spaces put it in the back if you're coming in on toaso it it should look not like a school with the lines the the applicant just um just agreed to a stipulation where they're going to put an additional layer of screening so that you can't see the parking lot or any of the parking from the street that's going to that's a spirit and intent of of what the applicant dis agree to so does that help you well that's part of it but I just I guess I want understand why that how did you find how why why D why on basso in the quiet area I'm going to have to direct that question I believe that the um witness the first uh had testified that they have students in Jackson that the Lakewood school only is on an acre this is 4 and a half acres they like the way it will look and feel for the students and so they looked for a piece of property in Jackson that permitted schools this is one of them and they've basically complied with the township ordinance so then my question about the piping who who is that for then that would go towards the engineer oh you okay so the backyard is is it it's up high correct correct yes so why would you do a piping to go down where if it's up why not dig a trench put the pipe and let the water run to the the back instead of to somebody's yard but you you have are you familiar with septic yes and all that and what happens when septic gets clogged yes do you ever smell it and then if that happens it's going to get disrupt so what what are the plans for that but I think you should put the PIP one question at a time one question at a time so if you're going to ask him a question you got to let him answer forget anything I do have far four pages but I'm just keeping it to one so so to clarify um the the reason why we're we're discussing a pipe and flow And to clarify this is going on right now and there is flow going off the property the reason why the flow always will go to the lower portion it is not possible to send water to the higher elevation because it'll just come back down down to the lower elevation um so there is a pipe um And to clarify again this is going on right now this is something going on right now there is flow coming off of the property and the applicant by placing the storage is reducing is making an improvement so it's not making it worse it's it's it's improving the existing conditions because that is something the is required to do yeah but if if the property is up high at some point on the other end it must go down so just create the pipe so it goes up and down and goes through the back I don't know that's just my two sons any other questions I have a lot more but I'll stop with this okay but come on up ma'am just hold a thought um all right so what I'm going to do is I'm going to engage with the the engineer just so everyone has an understanding of how this water flow and everything works uh because they don't expect the general public to do it so you have two types of bases retention and detention and without me testifying for the applicant what happens is you have a coffee cup that fills up and it soaks into the ground and it imp pands uh I'm saying this is the Environmental commissioner for the town it filtrates because it's set up with a certain type of sand and it percolates back into the ground and gets reused so let's make believe that we have the 12 O Coffee Cup just bear with me folks I keep pouring the kettle in and now it starts to overflow it goes into the pipe now what this whole thing is is really about is whatever is coming out of that pipe or whatever size pipe it is the applicant is forced to reduce it to mitigate this happens on every project and that is what the applicant is testifying further than that you'll see at the end of the pipe it's a little triangular thing that is the outfall and the outfall takes through what's called a weir a weir slows it down it's like a Pur lip so when the pressure gets up high enough it opens up just a little bit and lets that water kind of seep out and leak out now water runs through a pipe very quickly if I dumped a glass of water on the table my colleagues would split that's the reason why we have the rip wrap and if you look in each of these basins around town you'll see this little 4x4 uh structure that's got a grade on it and it's got a SLP in the front of it like at the H gas station and the way that works is whatever's in the Bas and if you're if you got floatables you know plastic coffee cups bottles whatever all that stuff gets hung up on the Bas and the water goes into that slot if it gets to be a 100e storm where you know things are out of control all over town the water dumps over the top but we still have that wear that pursed lip that slowly lets that water out so it's not going to come flying out the way it is now so the size of the pipe really in in conversation doesn't make a difference it's the outflow and I think the the the applicants engineer you know maybe hasn't expanded on that enough but that is how the water is managed to go off site you just can't let it rip it has to be slowly pursed at the appropriate time and that is done through a weir or a small hole would you agree yes all right please I have a follow up oh you're back to do this again it's Scot Dana 470 baso Street I will tell the truth my follow-up question is really for the township our Township engineer will be reviewing their storm water management plan so Mr CLE if you want to step in yeah um not the township engineer the planning board engineer with which is me okay uh and they have submitted the calculations I reviewed them they're consistent with the ordinance um the reductions that are required are being met um and then I'll say there's another layer of um review at the pilin commission okay okay my next question you said when people asked about moving the parking lot to the backyard we would like it to look like a neighborhood you have a large already cleared backyard the front yard has a ton of trees So you you're talking about disturbing the wetlands or the pine lands I should say the pine lands you're talking about not disturbing the pine lands by moving it to the back there are no trees in the front we have mature established pine trees that are going to be removed to put in this retention detention Basin why can't we consider it being in the backyard especially since the backyard backs two of property that's industrial I think we've asked and answered this question several times we have a concern about disturbing the back but I I also while we're doing this I was looking at uh Mr Peter's report and the section of the ordinance that he cited and called out a potential design waiver and when I reread that section I actually don't even think we need the design waiver because it does say that parking areas and residential zones for uses other than single family and two family dwelling may be located in the rear or side yard but shall not be located in any required front yard setback the word uses the word setback we are not within the setback we are well beyond the front yard setback yes we're in the front yard but not within the front yard setback so it's debatable that we even need it and it makes more sense to have it in the front because we don't want to disturb undisturbed areas in the Pinelands what the area in the front is Pine lands it's trees the back is already a field that was fed for feed for horses so it's not Disturbed you're just going to put pavment on there now you're going to take trees out to now replant trees along the borders and we have to also make sure that the parking lots and this runoff you know you're looking if you're looking at this picture of the house the septic is going to be to the left the gradient of the area goes to the left as you say North it heads North so now your parking lot and everything heads towards the septic and that that detention retention Basin is in the front so I'm assuming you're going to regrade now towards the street you've removed the trees if we put the parking lot in the back and you put a detention retention Basin back there it frees up the area in the front for your septic if it needs to be expand as you said if you were to expand the school you'd have to come back you'd need a more more septic area so you'd be disturbing the back in the second place so my question is I don't understand why we're going to disturb mature Pineland trees when you're saying it in the back it would be more of a disturbance when it's already flat ground that's my my my question okay I think that's been asked and answered and our ansers and changing so the next question I have is all your roof run off now you are extending the roof surface so all the the you know the rain leaders they're going into dry Wells are they going to be connected and piped to the system in the front they are going to be connected and piped to the system in the front the the the and it'll be solid pipe it won't be impervious pipe it the pipe will be dra roof drain pipe will be PVC pipe piped into but will it be perforated or solid pipe it'll be solid pipe the the roof drains will be solid pipe okay to the um and it will collect into the system and it is part of the drainage calculations which are being which are reviewed by the board engine the reasoning for my question is because I just want to make sure all that runoff doesn't land on that septic and that septic gets taxed and then the septic overflows goes into your detention base and then runs down the street to our neighbors I appreciate your concerns and Care was made to ensure that all the runoff is collected and the reductions are made and curbing is preventing Curbing and catch basins ensure that the flow is not going to the septic system all right so we'll take out the trees that absorb the water and just add more detention basins I think he's getting Short change back there yeah I see please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record Edward Betts I live at 14 Scottdale Court okay I have questions for the architect hi it's my understanding that the use of the first floor and the second floor is going to be school and the basement correct microphone please I'm sorry thank you it's tempting to to talk to her as attractive as you are um so then if it's School use then you're designing for 100 pound live load yes for the first floor and the second floor yes and you're aware that this house was built with a 40 lb live load for the first and second floor if the well the the building code will require us to beef up the structure then we'll do so okay so you're aware then based on what I believe uh the foundations are inadequate so you're going to be underpinning the foundations if required and you're going to be tripling the floor joists I again if required we'll we will do that those analysis all right so I want to bring this to to everyone's attention because when we start talking about the cost of this renovation it's going to be enormous they were well Beyond 50% so I just thought I'd point that out thank you thank you all right you finally made it John vosi yeah please swear affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes s 565 basso it's V is and Victor E ZZ oi so my question is for the executive director and if you could speak into the microphone please thank you so um you're currently at 555 Joe Parker right correct okay so what do you guys do during the summer with that property it's empty it's empty okay um and that's the same intent on Bassa yes okay so the property just can be vacant nobody's going to be there correct okay can you elaborate on some of the extracurricular activities you currently provide at Joe Parker per your per your website we take them on trips okay extracurricular activities do you do cooking we know it says it on your website right we don't cook there we prepare it no it says cooking it says one of the and I'll quote the girls have another opportunity to shine at an extracurricular where everyone can find that thing they're amazing at and love to do a what that that thing they're amazing at and love to do do including gym cooking art woodworking wish we had more of that in the public schools gardening and more so do they do cooking at they prepare the cooking there they don't actually cook it there the teacher let's say they make a bread the teacher brings it out afterwards they what they make so they cook bread they they make they'll make a salads oh there's actually no cooking going on okay but they do do wood what about wood working if there if there is they do that yes I'm sure they are um are they going to do woodworking at this school where you're moving uh we have professional teachers and staff that will do everything that they're supposed to be doing okay okay that's all I got thank you all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record Ria last name ASI M ah m o u d and I'm in Jackson off of heis Road and your address 486 there so a few questions first one is regarding the lights who do I address may go to the engineer yeah okay so if the school hours are 9 to 4: why do the lights even have to be on till 8:00 why isn't it just on and off during operational hours it only is for security purposes and the applicant is willing to have it all but it's in a residential area the applicant is willing to have it off earlier if the board will so direct it is for security purposes the school's hours are as stated Dr Campbell I think we had a discussion earlier that there's a level of security that exists that we want to maintain 8:00 seems to be a normal residential time that people's houses my are in bed at 8:00 like at that time that's it and the lights will be light going off at 8:00 and that's where you move from 10 but if operational hours are 99 to 4: and nobody's at the school and the security is linked directly to the police St why do they need to be on for longer hours CH can I just have an adjunct to that question the type of lighting I don't know maybe there was testimony we did 12 Direction 12 no no no that's not what I mean directional lighting with the covers P that's that was on they record okay it is so maybe the applicant just wants to expand on the type of lighting where it's not the the uh lighting plan shows also the level of lighting that will affect the neighboring properties and the lighting is meant for the parking area for a small area in the rear um to be lit and having the area lit will help prevent vandalism there are going to be it's a residential area it's a private residential area okay and and and there are going to be cut off Shields and in a way that even when it is lit there will be minimal glare onto the neighboring properties and therefore and because it is a residential property the applicant will have it off at 8:00 is a good time to have it off a residential property as per what the board is directing um but having it lit will prevent some will will will prevent vandalism we already have a lighting pollution here where a lot of other properties lights travel into my home and onto my property so I could imagine for a school I could see it as a concern so that was that question so to CL there there are cut off Shields and the plans are required to show that the level of lighting is reduced at the property line so care is is implemented in the plans to make sure that the properties don't aren't affected by the glare okay okay second question I have is regarding trash the trash pickup so the hours of operation for the school will be 9 to4 and you had or someone had stated that the trash pickup would be after 9 a.m. is that correct 8 A.M 8. after 8 so elementary school buses travel through Jackson between 8 and 9 my child gets picked up at close to 8:40 do you think that's going to be a problem on a street that's 24 to 25 ft wide with about I don't know four vans 15 to 25 possible staff plus delivery plus the trash pickup plus school buses no school buses Jackson school buses don't go down basso no this was the the school will not be adding to the school buses so now we have all the Vans 15 to 25 staff plus trash pickup plus delivery plus a parking lot in the front and we don't anticipate traffic leading out into the road disrupting the neighbors there there will be a minimal traffic impact because of I've just estimated 50 students within the four vans plus approximately 15 to 25 staff in andout morning and afternoon plus delivery plus trash throughout the week plus Jackson school buses all between 8 and 9 and that's a really small Street the the the use is there certainly will be more traffic versus a house however the school size is small and there was small for you but for the residents that are not used to it and as you are pushing with your answer the residents are pushing with their questions it's disrupting the residents right now the amount of traffic sorry but it's a permitted use and so offsite traffic is not an issue and a permitted use application so creating an uncomfortable situation for those residents is okay to create the tensions there the client has a right to develop the site with a permitted use this is a permitted use' but you're not putting the considerations of the res we are we're following all of the township ordinance requirements okay everybody stop talking all right so couple of things I need to say number one um I fully respect your your ability to ask questions and your right to but when you ask a question you got to let them answer you can't keep on cutting them off all right got it um number two I'm going to kind of give you my my template Spiel on offsite traffic that the planning board basically has no jurisdiction over all right so just so everybody is clear what's happened at the Supreme Court level all right um everybody stop talking let me I just want to make sure everybody is fully aware of this all right what happens is that at the planning board level we cannot take into consideration off-site traffic all right in either approving or denying an application that is straight from the Supreme Court that is case law with a number of cases um I don't know why the Supreme Court decided to do that but with that being said the zoning board has the ability of taking that into consideration and approving or denying for whatever reason they decided to make a significant record that the planning board can't so I I I fully understand and and listen this board has traffic reports in front of them all the time traffic experts it's a bizarre determination but it is what it is our hands are tied we cannot take off-site traffic into consideration once it crosses the threshold of the Ingress and egress for hazard and safety and efficiency purposes and everything like that circulation plan inside of of the property itself yes we can we can take those two things in off-site traffic for whatever bizarre reason Supreme Court literally bound our hands and we're handcuffed when it comes down to that so I I understand it's a Hot Topic and it's a very easy thing to focus on and latch on to but the board literally cannot render determination for either approving or denying an application off based upon offsite traffic so I I I I hope that helps thank you yeah um I do have another question and I don't know if it's appropriate for anybody here but for me as a taxpayer it's a fair question so I don't know who to address it to but the taxes and the budget for the education who's paying for the Vans and transportation for these children our educational budget is already -30 million right now and where are these students getting this tuition money from couple couple of things um number one I guess the applicant's going to ask the or answer the question as to as to how the private busing is occurring right but a separate answer to your question would be uh two venues uh either Board of Education all right you can go there and you can uh ask them about the budget Transportation uh whatever contracts they have with busing however the bid system operates for that in this Township um you can go to um freeh holders uh I think they call them Commissioners now right and and go to Transportation uh meetings talk about that you can also go to Township Council um some of what you brought up may be relevant you know there so there's different but there's a school being built here I I know but what I'm saying to you is for you're you're bringing up public um because our tax dollars are going sorry I don't mean to cut you off no I I know that but what what I'm saying to you is that what what you're bringing up the board doesn't have any jurisdiction to even take into consideration nor do we have the ability of really one ofing Specialists can answer where's the even asking that question could jeopardize an application so so when it comes down to the applicant can answer your question as to whether they're going to provide busing out of their own pocket is it be private service things like that that they can answer okay thank you so where is the money coming for the transportation and the students tuition work we want to work with all the neighbors so you should just know that we're going to do whatever the N whatever we're going to work very hard to make the neighbors happy that's our agenda as far as your question of the for the bsing what the Board of Education from Jackson if the people live in Jackson then whatever what education decides for them for the busing and people who live in Lakewood whatever the Board of Education decides for them it's not anything we're doing anything different than what the board of education allows okay so the root of this question refers back to we arega $30 million in our Public School funds so excuse me it's not relevant you can't get into issues of CA excuse me it's inappropriate speak yeah but you're inappropriately speaking you're cutting me off and continue cut you enough end it now end ma'am enough enough okay so we have to number one keep things relevant okay they are relevant no no it's it's not it's not what's relevant is to what the applicant is here for and the check boxes they have to check off pursuant to the ordinance all right this is not the Forum to talk about tax dollars and the amount that they were over budget as a Township everything like that that is you can take that up with of council or you can bring it up as a budget concern to the Board of Education this is a private school this is no different than a dry cleaner coming here and somebody going up to them and saying Hey listen I don't agree with the way you're operating your business why don't you pay more taxes okay so so no we cannot we cannot address that concern here Mr okay you have directed me to ask my question I understand that but you cannot phrase it in irrelevant matter excuse me yeah you directed me to ask this gentleman that question and so I did and he went to answer and I went to respond until this individual here cut me off okay you were both cutting each other off so so this is what this is what we're going to do I want you to to please just ask a question keep it relevant all right keep keep taxes and all that out of it okay keep it relevant to the operations of the fac the operations of the facility are requiring Public public tax dollars from the citizens to operate this facility's Vans and tuition for the students tuition the the the vans that are coming to your school are they funded with the public educational tax dollars budget where's this money coming from I told you the Board of Ed if there's children in Jackson that come to a Lakewood school they go to the Board of Ed and the Board of Ed has a a system and how what they reimburse them or what they whether they give them funding for the for the busing has nothing to do with our school it's a board of ed situation and the tuition for these students it's private it's private they don't get any money from B okay the private school okay thank you why the chair Mr rker okay uh you can hang out there for Mr Sir um first thing I want to point out an environmental offer here that gives me the seat here on the planning board in both capacities I look at a project I don't want to know whose name or whatever and in the board's determination the first per I want you to think of this as a wedding you're going to go get married so you need permission from Mom and Dad that's the zoning board does it fit in this place and Will zoning allow you to do it so in this case zoning apparently has allowed them to do this here that's how it's happened there's two tenants that have changed here one the zoning has changed through ordinance to allow such things that has been backed up by something that's called rppa okay if you're not familiar with it Mrs Jennings can give you a quick dissertation but the short and and concise answer is that we must remove barriers and obstructions to prosecute this application forward now we can't be silly about it we can't throw caution out the window and that's why we're having this so when you come to the planning board your wedding has been approved now we're going to say hey where is it going to be well zoning said it's going to be here now planning is going to work with the applicant to make sure that the bride hasn't gone off the rails and watch 3,000 people when it can only accommodate 50 50 or 60 okay so that is the concept that's here all right so we hold up a prism and unfortunately through the state uh Supreme Court and Municipal land use law I'm not allowed to consider the traffic and that aggravates a snot out of all of us because we get held accountable for the traffic and great adventure and things like that and we're stuck dealing with the County Commissioners and the state reps have promised the world okay we cannot change it we're Bound by it and the same thing happens with why are they bringing in here and attacks us with that that those things have no bearing whatsoever on the application so unfortunately for the majority of that young lady's testimony I'm going to ask to be have it stricted from the record because it's not applicable we're here to address a project and how it fits on this piece of property it's an approved zoning use and now we're making this thing fit and adjusting it that's the prism that we're bound to work with here prism excuse me all right so with that I'm going to make the motion for any extraneous conversation about taxes and funding to have that stricken from the record please motion to strike we need a second second Sullivan discussion discussion I don't think there's any grand cause to strike comments from the record I think the law stands on its own excuse me be quiet please someone is speak as far as striking public comment I think you fall back to conforming use you fall back to testimony questions on the testimony if there are other related comments I don't think we need to go down the rabbit hole of striking public testimony I'm just putting that right out there uh I'm not supporting of it I understand why you're saying that I get it but I think extraneous comments are probably in every single planning board application whether they're fairly light uh heavier and well populated or what have you I the applicant may even agree that it's it's not relevant for if there's an appeal I don't think but I'm any I don't I'm over talking exous I'm not I I I don't like shutting down the public dialogue pce I'm just well extraneous comments can be used against us in court when we make a decision I heard some comments that related to the fact that the school budget is under stress that's essentially what I heard and to what extent does the application of anything to do with it and for us it has nothing to do with it so I think that's I just think it's a uh a strong measure and a strong path to go down and that's why I'm sharing this in discussion so that I don't I don't think that it has a a practical implication on the application and I don't think it's a path you want to typically go down as far as public commentary Mr rer do you want to retain your Mo could I just could I just ask a question quickly from just better understand Mr record's motion um I think this board um has always stayed on topic and always stayed on the record making sure that we are we judge a an application based on its Merit applying the law and I and just understand Mr Riker's motion you just want to make sure that all the board members understand what's applicable to the law absolutely what is applicable okay so Miss Jennings are are we all on the same page that um with what Mr reer is trying to accomplish over here yes I understand exactly what he's trying to do okay so Mr reker would you like to withdraw your motion I will would draw it with caution right I don't want to see what's going to happen on a an appeal I will draw with caution I'm going to I'm going to do a couple things all right I'm going to give some more guidance to the public and the situation okay you know this ladies and gentlemen proceeding please this is a legal proceeding it is important that it's quiet so that the record can be clear all right three quick things first if I deem your testimony to be duplicative all right I'm going to say asked and answered and then we're going to move on all right if I deem your question to be irrelevant to what the board has jurisdiction to I'm going to say irrelevant and then we're going to move on all right we got to keep it we're going to keep it clean and concise and relevant to what these guys gave testimony to I usually don't have to do this but in this case I'm telling you this all right last thing there's a law called Rupa all right it's the religious land use law we cannot violate this as a board meaning that we cannot take religious considerations into the approval process when we're making these determinations because it has to be based on the checklist that that is given to us by the ordinance and the standards and everything of that nature all right that's what we have jurisdiction to approve as the board has jurisdiction to determine to deny or approve the application whatever the case may be all right that's it so please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth absolutely all right please state your name spell your last of the record kurtovich s r m o v i uh reside at 456 basso um first off um this is not opinion um was this property I'm sorry was this property already had a pin land study on it certification certification okay the the process is the um requirement before appearing before the planning board is to receive a certificate of filing which so they didn't do an animal study or any of that stuff there as part of the as part of granting the certificate of filing the piling required a snake study which was done it was done correct and they gave you a certain percentage of the property you could use at that point I'm just asking because personally I tried to buy a piece of property on vath street and I called Pinelands and it was a 5 acre lot and they told me that I can only build on one acre of that 5 acre lot so if I look at your drawing you're taking over more than half with Street and just occup occupying it so that's just why I'm like curious why is not that wasn't okay for me and they told me in the past you could try to fight us on this if you want to put an application to say you would like to use more than that one acre of the five acres it usually doesn't work out for you you usually end up with less once we do a study so it's just I'm curious because that told me well I'm not interested in that property and I didn't buy it for that reason which I'd rather have the five acres than the two acres I have now you know I can't speak specific to other properties the general um the guidelines are the pine lands in different areas are concerned specifically around here with the snakes the pine Baron snakes and as part of an application uh to receive a certificate of filing a study is require to be done and uh there are different levels of study that could be done there could be a walk through that could would be done and a report is submitted um a more significant study um called a drift fence um survey where actually a professional goes out every day for about nine months to check could be done um in our case we are actually the um limit the footprint over here is one acre of of is also one acre of footprint of disturbance over here inclusive of everything and a report was submitted to the Pine lands um and they are comfortable with the fact that there were no Pine barar and snakes this was done by Duo environmental and the pine LS issued the certificate of I didn't realize you hold the property that long cuz I thought it took a lot longer the certificate that that's a requirement of the Pine Land so I can't speak to other properties every property is the they know they have information that we may one may not have as to where the pine b as to where the snakes are the Clayton sand pin uh piss affect it so I can't speak to every property um but snakes do have to be taken into account they were taken into account and other properties might be different now could someone elaborate on the 50% rule that you guys were talking about about like they can't add on more than 50% that changes so let let me let me just address this so 50% rule is a construction rule all right governed by the international business code all right it like everybody kind of became aware of it during Hurricane Sandy right so that we don't have jurisdiction to even take that into consideration so if they're doing something that they need to go in and literally gut the entire home put 15 different beams in and put steel beams in and iron rods or whatever they got to do and it goes beyond that 50% capacity that is governed by the building department Construction Department that is on them all right and and then they have to figure that out and if that goes beyond what they have an approval for here and it changes what they have an approval for changes the plans they got to come back that's how that works it's it's has nothing to do with this board we don't have jurisdiction over it um so it doesn't matter that they're going over 50% in that's the whole thing so it's it's not it's not our call it's the building Department's call all right so so they're the ones actually take a look at the plans the architecturals everything like that do the site inspections they they make that determination we can't just take a look at the plan and say oh hey we kind of think you may be over 50% denial stamp yeah we can't do that it's illegal we would get sued in the heartbeat so we don't have the jurisdiction to even take that into consideration so the constructed area once this place is built is what 7600 ft the square footage is that what the the hous is Melissa you want to come up and clarify well in one of the letters that went out to one of the neighbors there was a 76 reference approximately 7600 Square ft of livable space whatever and that original house was what because for some reason I've went on like Zillow I've seen mine for houses I bought and sold the last 10 years but this one's completely wiped off as far as on realtor.com you can't even to find the square fo was where where are we going with this question where are we going with this well it's just I don't know it's way over I I guess it maybe it doesn't make sense because it's 50% but it's just you're they they comply with the ordinance well when they spoke they told like this floor is this SI I know but if if we're if we're getting to the point where we're saying you have too much square footage you should get denied we can't do that okay um parking spots how many parking spots are there 27 there's 26 27 okay I thought I heard a lot less than that before um you're parking lot lighting how many lights will there be because you talked about lights off the back of the house and this and that you're drawing show 15t life poles in the front of the house that was never brought up so is there going to be along the whole driveway I mean the whole walkway how many how many lights are going to be there could um Anthony could you pull up um a A3 or a 15 foot light poles I mean that that's that's the that glows the whole property if it's in the whole front yard there are three light poles for a park lot is required to be light lit and there are three light poles okay it's good for right now sir thank you any of the takers we Haven please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth yes yes all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Linda moscowitz M oos k w i TZ for Hardwick Court Jackson of course my question is for Melissa but first Mr Shay yes I've been here since 7 o'clock and your comment was the first that mentioned religion this is not about religion this is about usage of property and please don't bring that in to defend Mr Shay somebody did set the ground rules that's it I saw I saw the direction that was going I just wanted to make sure everybody was fully aware Melissa um microphone please ma'am oh thank you very much okay you described for the basement level and I honestly don't remember how many students will be down there there is access from the first floor of the house and access Direct directly to the outside for safety for the main floor and the second floor are there is there an exit besides the front door yes there's a rear door as well okay I I'm only concerned about the safety of the students and staff absolutely okay anyone else coming forward I'll accept a motion please please I move the close to public portion h i get one all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record Charles Jerry j e r y 1439 Jordan simple question to you mic you can only ask questions at this point to the you said the professionals we're not the Prof aren you a professional you're the planning board planning board attorney correct what do what do you want to know can this be stopped we have yes or no so F first of all first of all I'm not going to provide guidance because that contain the entire contain the entire applic ask that question what I'm going to say to you just so that everybody here is aware is that there is a fully conforming application with two very minimal waivers one of which may or may not be even applicable the other one if they choose not to even do they could just change the the Minimus aspect of the plan they wouldn't need the waiver anymore it's a permitted use in a zone that is I understand all that I'm just I'm just this is this is how I have to answer we all understand all this it's a yes or no question this is how I can the neighbors do not want the school there stop this there are this is considered a proposal okay so in my University education proposal means is not a proposal it's an application okay a subtle but this means it's not approved yet that that means it's not approved under the board okay can it be stopped I I can or I cannot provide you legal guidance on this I'm not asking for legal guidance but you are you're you're asking for a legal determination from the board attorney and I can't do that I cannot give you that answer what I can say to you is that there's an appeal process for things like this there's an appeal process for things like this and that's all I can say okay what is the appe process consult who do I reach out you want if you want to consult with a land use attorney on the matter you can do that I cannot I cannot give you any advice I cannot give you legal advice I'm not asking for legal advice but yes you are you you asking for leg determination okay you may not think you are but you are okay you're asking me for for a legal determination and what is I'm just asking you what what steps need to be taken who do I go to in Jackson to is a class action lawsuit the only way I that I I can't give you much advice but I can tell you that that one really doesn't apply to the situation so you may want to um consult the situation years ago when you wouldn't pave our roads I I I want you to listen to me very very clearly okay you need to consult with a land use attorney if you're going down this road that's all I can tell you that's all the guidance I can give does Jackson have a land use attorney you have to hire your own land attorney you have to H right so you are a private citizen who is contemplating attempting to fight a private application you need to go to a private land use attorney that's it that's all I can tell you all right I cannot give you any further guidance okay unacceptable thank you El kski raise your right hand do you swear affirm they tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record elain Kowalski k w a lski okay 322 Diamond Road there go um concerned about um safety for the students and we've been looking at a front elevation of the house continually but we never got to see a view of the back and how many exits there are for the students if there are 50 students and possibly up to 24 staff members um that's a lot of people in the house um how are the children going to be exiting and the staff members can we see a back elevation we've been looking at the front of the house constantly is there any way out the back door or um I'm going to direct you to either the operations or the uh architect the zoning set that was submitted um it is one of the tabs there does have a rare elevation if you want to pull that up yep that uh the one second to the left yeah I could chub we to scroll to the next sheet drawing C is the rare elevation and you can see there's a double door kind of on the right side that's sure it's not similar to the one you've been showing us with the painted house and trees I don't have a colored rendering of the good rendering right there that's the door so how many you're enlarging the house um how many exits are there out the back from each end one at the front and one at the back one one front door and one back door you're saying correct and and then another one at the basement level okay for for 70 close to 70 people being in the house if there's a fire so we do a a study on of building code and we show the path of exit discharge Which is less than 75 ft and it meets building code two means of egress less than 75 ft okay do fire inspect or a fire department get to review this plan absolutely it conforms with the fire code okay and also um regarding the parking uh not my department just um supporting the other residents that live here um we keep talking about the footprint of the parking lot and what's the backyard going to be used for I mean the footprint could be exactly the same size and it would make the residential area look similar to the residents the applicant has agreed to uh Supply a larger than required um screening putting and as was as um was testified earlier putting it in the back would um increase the impervious um area because you still have to have Paving to the back and would increase the um footprint of disturbance and keeping it in the front is um limiting and we are beyond the front setback okay um I just assumed the setback was to the frontage of the house um wouldn't this still be in the setback if it's all the way to the front of the house it is it is in the front yard it is beyond the required front yard setback which is 80 feet to the streets and there will be added screening to ensure that the um parking area is properly buffered okay thank you very much thank you ma'am anyone else seeing no one come forward I move the close public portion all in favor I now yeah make a motion to open public comment to any anything pertaining to this application second hello anyone wish to come forward all right please raise your right hand just first guys so we we're going to we're going to keep the public comment section to four minutes all right four minutes a piece that is what you get tell us how you feel all right so do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes all right please state your name spell your last of the record Jim Sakia s i l ECC h a sorry Jim Sakia s l e CC hiia my address is six harfield Drive Jackson I am not by this where this is being developed but I've been coming to planning board meetings now for a while and I've I've learned some things um this may be seem like a nitpick but when you talk about the garbage pickup we made a comment that it would happen after 8:00 a.m. problem with that is 11:00 p.m. is after 8:00 a.m. you didn't put it time to end it at so I think you should consider putting a time frame as to when it'll be picked up by Fair after we could do that but just to let you know usually it's not an issue because most of the time most carriers will not pick up when the dump is closed I understand that and that's your fair point though as Mr Shay has been pointing out all night long we can only do certain things because otherwise we're going to be taking but I I just wanted to add to your education yes Fair Point thing that I've learned stipulate it till the other thing I've learned we'll stipulate till 400 p.m. that's fine that's fine I told you it was a nitpick so the other thing the other thing I've learned is Dr Campbell always has a question she did not ask it at this one and and I was ready for this solar panels solar pan solar so not that I care it's just one of those things I've gotten used to maybe we could ask the um architect if it would be a possibility to consider solar she's coming there's especially on the rear of that house it would be and then then the last thing is I know there was a lot of talk about well let's finish this let's finish this the applicant is aable to looking into it appreciate it for you guys to out the last thing is I know there's been a lot of talk about moving a parking lot and that doesn't look good and all the questions went to the engineer and the one thing I heard from the direct executive director is he wants to work with the residents so how about we ask him if if he would be willing to sit down with the the designer and say is it a feasible thing to move it to the back nobody asked that question so I'll just bring that up as something that may be considered so we're going to we're going to put this to bed so Miss Jennings do you want to ask your applicant if amendable I think the answer is no but he wants to work with the neighbors that's all I'm asking other than that have a good night well I think he has been working with the neighbors there's already 39 conditions on a fully conforming application how many it's maybe a record 39 yeah we can't move the parking lot but it's 80 feet from the from the street and we're going to put extra screening and we're going to be good neighbors and you'll like us that's what I can say good answer it's beginning of a beautiful relationship all right ma'am still Deb Jones still from heis and I'm gonna we have to make sure that our board secretary yeah um it's not really a question hang on a sec Laura did you did you get there yeah I know I'm planning to um we keep talking about the front the back whatever I feel like as a board you really do need to think about this and keep it in the back of your mind because there's a reason why we're moving the schools I understand it's a bigger property whatever it also means room for expansion for when they want to make the school bigger and it's not going to change what it's how it's impacting the people and I respect that you say you want to be a good neighbor and you want to be a friend and you want to be all of this it's not about anything other than safety and when the girl came up and asked maybe it was the wrong time but you have kids that alope we live in a very dark World sadly but you can't just say We'll track them with the cell phone you can't just say it doesn't happen because nobody starts out wanting to break rules and not do the right thing but it happens and there's a lot of dark things going on in our world and they don't care what our religion is they don't care what our color is they don't care about anything so as a community and as a school we owe it to every child to make sure that they're safe and not it's never happened make sure there's a plan I work in a public school system we have a plan for every situation we we hope they never come up but we still have a plan for it we can't just say oh there's people there that can you know do CPR our School nurses they're busy all day long cuz you don't know what's going to happen you have kids coming in with fevers you have kids whose allergies are going you have kids that everything's going on so instead of doing the bare minimum let's start getting ahead of it and really working with our neighbor because when you have a kid that's out it's going to be all the people here that live on that road that you're going to have to go to to make sure that that child's found cuz if I'm the mother and you're calling me and saying your child left the school and we don't know it's not going to fly so you need to make sure you're doing the right thing ma'am one of the things I want to tell you is that if if anyone wants to do any expansion at any future date they have to come back they cannot just expand oh no I know that just so you're clear oh I'm clear I'm just saying that there's a reason the back isn't being touched right now and can I expand on that a little to say that it would also have to go before the pine Lans commission which would have a certain amount of difficulty for anyone wishing to expand beyond the size I know but I also live in the town and I've seen the things that have been built anyone else yes ma'am do this again please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes all right please state your name spell your last of the record say that again say your name and spell your last name for the record okay uh Stephanie and Marcel wenberg m a r c i l l e w h r n b e r g so going back I guess it's not sitting right with me um regarding the the parking lot and being in a residential to take in consideration the back um again the fact that it's you're saying no that makes me think that at some point expansion but you're saying a private school 50 people or kids what is a definition of private being can that ever go back cann't that go up because you're going to expand at some point so I just concerned about that and then as far as the traffic back and forth on basso and around the area people drive really fast as it is on that street and there's people walking their dogs there's kids playing it's a big concern with with the traffic so are they going to then with all this extra traffic coming through are they going to put speed limit or when you're coming to the end of the street because we live towards the end of I guess it's Ridge in basso and I'm out there with my dogs all the time and so many people come so fast and they don't slow down so I feel it's a concern that as soon as you come in put a speed limit sign or have a radar thing there so that or cameras again we've explained this now multiple times this board cannot decide anything based on traffic we cannot use that when we consider it's something we cannot do so so the things that you just said what you may want to do you can take it up with the township Council you can go to the police department um you know say Hey listen you know there's there's a lot of traffic in this one specific area could you maybe do a study or something like that you speak to uh officer hemba he's a traffic safety officer you may want to have a conversation with him and just give him the heads up that that that area that specific area has got some problems okay and that would be too about possibly could be putting a a traffic light up and that's up to the township so it's Township Road Township would have the ability of of kind of doing some kind of remediation something to that effect so in comment my last comment again is that just to make make it look like a residential and make it kind of uniform so it all Blends in so it's not just the parking lot in the front well I think they have uh said that they're going to increase the screening considerably you will not see those parking places you won't see them from the street that will be screened they have they are putting they have agreed to do 15 ft of screening and then you said a sidewalk is is there a a sidewalk in the front I don't understand what you meant about a sidewalk there is no sidewalk in the front because there are no sidewalks on the whole street right the sidewalking would be internal they' be internal sidewalks internal to the property oh not on the street okay okay just want to keep it uniform thank you you to push me all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing about the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Lorraine Kaminsky Kam m i NSK k i all right and your address 590 basso Street Jackson my question um is really more for the board um for the planning I just wanted to ask you when you say that if um the school wanted to add on they would have to come back to the board correct okay does that also include does that mean like um adding on as far as adding an addition or does that include the trailers that they sometimes use as schools any addition any any trailers any any change at all to this property would they would need to come back to us and they would also be needing to go to the Pine lands commission and get many many other uh agency agreements so not will happen beyond what is there okay in this proposal is each Town different because I did live in Lakewood and that did happen to me L Lakewood is a Lakewood is L this is so there are different it is different we got to remember Pine commission overrides everything and that is in the pine commission domain so so so what what what happens is that so we have the approval at the board level all right but then there's I mean I want to say a dozen other outside agencies that have to sign off on every application pursuant to the resolution so during the resolution compliance period which is what happens after the approval at the board and the zoning permit all the way at the very end where Jeff papor the zoning officer has to sign off on it they have to get every single Outside Agency approval and if they can't get it from that agency they got to come back to the board so there's a little bit of there's a lot that that that Mr CLE works with on a daily basis that probably has traumatized him taking years off his life but uh that goes down that that there's a checks and balancing system to this before it even gets to the zoning officer and before before it even gets to the building department because once it once it goes to the zoning officer it's then got to get you know get the Construction and building and electrical and plumbing and and all that good stuff to get the actual IBC approval so there there's a lot of steps along the way okay and as far as comparing to Lakewood remember that Jackson has its own ordinances our ordinances govern what goes on in Jackson and that's why it's good once in a while and and I'm delighted to see so many people here come to the township Council meetings come to the zoning board meetings see what goes on and how these things are organized by the residents we're residents by the residents for the residents it's it's good that you're here we appreciate it thank you for your time all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth um it's my opinion so I guess well it's got to kind kind of be a yes or no Amy Shuster yes true FAL s c h u s t e r all right 1467 so make sure our board secretary got all that Jordan Avenue he cut me off I was going to say that um my comment is for the school please my comment is for the school you say you want to be good neighbors we never knew about this until we got the letter from the um W group what about reaching out before what about any kind of preparation for us all of a sudden our very quiet rural neighborhood is going to have a 75 person school that's not being a good neighbor you strike one already so I would like to have a good relationship because we are directly across the street from the property where the water's going to go how can we make this happen okay all right I'm short but I'll try to be brief I'm Helen Ferrero I swear yes I will tell the swear or affirm to tell the truth nothing but the truth yes 1458 Jordan Avenue okay and my question is for the school we live as you've heard everybody attests to the fact that we live in a beautiful quiet tranquil peaceful the peers are C it's beautiful the area we live in will you please teach your students teach these young people to respect the nature to respect the deer understand them learn something about them I know religion is very important and I understand that but our neighborhood it's it's our religion and you've got Coyotes out there at night you can hear the fox yipping I mean these are special things that are special to our neighborhood and I don't want to see your children not learn if we have to live with you and you have to live with us you have to put up with my barking dogs my meowing cats my wiing horses God forbid don't forget the goats you've got a lot to put up with with us but I expect you to teach your children to respect nature the bugs the bugs are special the lightning bugs they're special do I have that guarantee from you thank you I'm done thank you God bless you all [Applause] all right one more time again you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right your name and last for the record raia last name ASI M ah m o u d and 486 Meadowwood Road gotcha uh so this question is for Mr Bernstein directly intertwined with the last comment that you made to me and you brought up a religious law yeah rule I I don't remember what it's called in any case um I never brought up religion just for the record um not sure where exactly that came from and I'm sure you were not there at the last meeting when Mr Bernstein was also speaking in Hebrew and made a religious comment talking about diversity while speaking in Hebrew as a religious comment Okay so just to draw the borders and lines it should be diversity for everyone and not to just make a comment as I walk off okay but now now we're getting by not talking about religion now we're getting into religion so but you brought it up and you open the door com stop talking please stop talking it should be the rules stop talking applied for everybody enough so I have to do that as a precautionary measure because the board over the course of history has had a couple problems now if I see it going down roads that I think it may be going down I have the fiduciary obligation as the board attorney to cut that off at the needs I saw that going down a road I saw that going down a road ma'am I saw that going down the road with where you were going with your reasoning where it could have led to Lo assum it is what it is end of discussion we're done the question was for Mr Bernstein so why we're done with questions we're done with questions this is General comment if you have a general comment make the general comment that is a comment make the comment question is not a comment make comment my question is for Mr burn make comment so why I'm directing I'm directing a board member ma'am enough I'm directing a board member not to answer any religious questions that can even be asserted as such because of Rupa so ma'am if you have a general comment that's relevant to this application this is why isn't it fair for everyone across the board because you assumed I was going into religion when I wasn't ma'am I saw a path to where you were going and I cut it off that's fine I'm not accusing you of anything I just said to everybody as a whole we cannot have any sort of taint from religious religious arguments or anything of that nature with any application that we have before us okay this board operates by looking at an ordinance and seeing whether or not the application comports with it if it needs any waivers or variances and it needs any other relief that's it that's what we can do we we can't take that into consideration that that that is the Equitable nature of a planning board all right that's where we're at that's where we're at if you have a comment about this application now is the time to put it on record I'm giving you that and I said it okay good thank you seeing no one else come forward I move the close the public portion second all in favor I miss Jennings would you like to Su sure just very briefly as the board heard we have an application here this evening that is fully conforming with the township ordinance and under the municipal land use law section 46 and 50 states specifically that the board shall Grant an approval to a fully conforming application I agree with Mr wall we don't even need to go down the Rupa path it is there it is always there when you're dealing with the religion but if we just focus on the state law I think the applicant is entitled to the relief that they're requesting this evening I think they have also been very good neighbors I have now written down 39 conditions that the board has sought to impose upon the applicant uh to which really they didn't have to agree to many of them but they did want to be a good neighbor and they were willing to uh agree to these conditions and so I hope that the board takes it into consideration when you deliberate thank you someone make a motion well let me let me just address something so this application is a permitted use in a Zone where is permitted in okay it has two minimal variances which if the applicant removes they have an application as a matter of right okay which at that point is basically a a quasi courtesy review um they've agreed to 39 conditions that may be a record for any application that we've had since I've started uh most likely before that as well so that is where we're at right now um and that that is what we're voting on I have a quick follow on to that just to confirm something the ordinance we're operating on here is it held in advance with the Pinelands or it is this is this is a pine lands approved orance conforming to an enforc ordinance that's in place correct or is it an ordinance that is held in abeyance by Pinelands and not yet in force no that's the question yeah this is not the new ordinance that the that the pin lands uh hasn't approved yet so so this is not yeah this is the old ordinance that that has Pine lands approval yeah okay thank thank you and Mr Clay or Mr Peters any comments before we make a decision here still waiting for a motion like to make a motion to approve with the 39 stipulations looking for a second second H we'll do a roll call vote Please Mr Bernstein yes I want to thank the applicant for adding those extra 5et of buffers I know that will make a big big difference anyone inass street so thank you Mr heler yes Mr Riker yes Miss Rose Mr marzo yes Mr Tremor Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan uh yes and I'd like to thank the applicant for agreeing to the 39 stipulations and also I hope that um the township will consider uh marking the property uh the boundary of the front of the property on the road as a No Parking Zone thank you yes Dr Campbell yes congratulations thank you very much have a good night Miss Jennings I think we're going to have to discuss uh a postponement because I don't think it's a good idea to start to start uh you don't want to do application tonight okay K would you uh what do we have I think next time open is June no I think there's some time in June June 17th June 17th L's June 17th I can't hear anything hey hey hey guys we have I know everybody's leaving but we have to have some quiet we're still on record all right we're discussing another application we're looking at June 17th M Mr Ray wouldn't be available I thought oh it's okay Justin was yeah all right or send someone else yes he did Mr Jennings I'm sure August is probably open August September August don't all right yeah I'm going to check with Mr gazar rowski to see U yeah no if if what else do we have on that night he was outside in the minor subdivision and possibly a warehouse or no sorry the addition to the daycare which might be carried again should have time yeah okay all right so it's pretty much going to be the whole night so do we need a motion for that uh we need I think we need a motion for that please motion to carry that the application to June 17th second Sullivan all right M Jennings and you wave time I all right so no notic right accept a motion notice just to close motion to close burn second hello all all in favor I have a good night thank you ladies and gentlemen all