to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all good evening ladies and gentlemen pursu to the uh njsa 10 col 4 the open public meetings act notice of this duly and regularly scheduled meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment has been published and posted in all appropriate Loc ations roll call please Mr Hurley here Mr Stafford Smith here Mr book here Mr Hudak here miss Parnes here Mr Heyman here Dr Holstein here miss frit here miss Bradley here do we have any resolutions this evening we do have one resolution this evening this is resolution number resolution granting preliminary and final site plan approval with conditional use variance on property located at Six Flags Boulevard block 3101 lot 1101 uh eligible to vote on this resolution are uh Mr Hurley Mr Stafford Smith Miss frit Mr book Mr Hudak Miss Parnes and M Miss Bradley roll call please uh motion oh mtion second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes do we have any minutes this evening yes approval of minutes from January 3rd 2024 from Elizabeth Ram to approve roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes M Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss parnaz yes Miss frit yes Miss Brading yes I have a voucher for the township of Jackson for the recording secretary for this evening in the amount of $175 I need a motion and a second to pay the voucher please move to pay the voucher roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss parnaz yes Miss frit yes Miss Bradley yes do we have any announcements this evening Mr Murphy uh we have no announcements this evening all right so we need to swear in the professionals gentlemen thank you for raising your right hands do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes yes D each please state your name and your position with the board Evan Hill Board engineer Ernie Peters board planner Jeffrey paoro zoning officer thank you and I believe we're having an executive session this evening Mr yes Madam chair if I can articulate the resolution for executive session um we'll need to have a motion to uh accept the resolution and a second and a roll call um whereas the Zoning Board of the township of Jackson is subject to certain requirements of the open public meetings Act njsa 10 4 whereas the open public meetings Act njsa 10 4-12 provides that an executive session not open to the public may be held for certain specified purposes when authorized by resolution whereas it is necessary for the zoning Board of the township of Jackson to discuss in a session not open to the public matters uh relating to items or item an item or items authorized by njsa Ted colon 4-12 B this evening those matters being uh attorney client privilege discussions related to uh potential litigation um now therefore be it resolved that the zoning Board of the township of Jackson uh enter the executive session for discussion of uh attorney client privilege matters uh and potential litigation um it is anticipated that the deliberations conducted in Clos session may be disclosed to the public upon the determination that public interests will no longer be served by such confidentiality um if I could have um a member U make a motion to approve this resolution I move to approve the resolution to go into close session second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Mr hman yes Dr Holstein yes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes all right uh at this time uh any members of the public that are here uh you will need to exit the room um we're going to have executive session uh in this room so uh if you are not a board member board professional attorney employed by the board's attorney you're going to have to leave this the the room at this time thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay we need a motion to come out of executive session please move it second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr kudak Miss Parnes yes Mr Hyman yes Dr Holstein yes Miss frit yes Miss brle yes okay we are going to move forward to application number one James Hughes 280 Faraday Avenue this is for an amended sum plan or administrative approvals thank you [Music] hello hello okay I'm ready to go just for just director Timothy B Middleton on behalf of the applicant Mr use um it's fairly I don't mean to be rude you're going to have to hold the microphone up okay I'm sorry okay I'll repeat myself again Timothy B Middleton on behalf of the applicant James Hughes um this is an application you know fairly straightforward the application the applicant is seeking approval PR preliminary and final site plan approval and use for varience approval to um convert a PO of his yard approximately 36,500 ft to a storage area for vehicles heavy equipment storage trailers uh materials so on and so forth which he'll describe in more detail and I think we're ready to [Music] proceed who's your first witness yes Mr use okay Mr use would you please raise your right hand you solemly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments you're about to present before the board will present the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do thank you very much if you would please state your name James W use uh spell your last name please h u g h s and you are the property owner is that correct excuse me you're the property owner is that correct yes okay I have a hearing aid so sometimes understood I'll try to keep my voice up I apology thank you Mr Middleton thank you Mr Murphy uh m use as you pointed out you're the property owner and the applicant correct that's correct and just if you could briefly describe the property to the board uh I have a a lot in the behind my other lot and it's a open lot and I plan on letting people Park in there for storage and like vehicles or if a landscaper needs a place to put his equipment Etc on that order um so you would store for example you and I spoke about this but uh cars trucks RVs campers uh boats on a trailer um uh so a storage trailer correct yes and then you you indicated to me earlier today that uh you wanted to store perhaps materials yes and can you explain the the the like PVC pipe or fencing if I need to do it in a section okay um and the area you want to store the material and the cars the RVs that's depicted on the map that was submitted to the board uh in connection with this application correct yes um as I understand that you currently operate your plumbing business on the property yes and you have as I understand two separate buildings yes I have an office in the front and a warehouse in the back and as I as I uh went through the record the office in the front uh was approved by the board I believe in 1983 yes and the separate building we call it the warehouse building was approved by the board in 2011 that's correct yes you weren't involved in 1983 application were you no and but you were the applicant in 2011 yes so you hear just the modify the approvals uh granted by by the board of 1983 and 2011 to allow the storage yes um what I'd like to do Mr use is the Mr Peters has issued a as he usually does a fairly detailed letter and ask him some questions not many are for you but there's a few so why don't we go over the letter um if we could um the letter is dated by the way January 30th 202 it paragraph B uh there was a request to describe the current use and the proposed use I think you've done that um moving down actually paragraph m there was a question regarding providing testimony to discuss where solid waste and recyclables are stored and how they are removed from the site we don't have no waste so you C say that again well you I sent all my vehicles out to get service we don't do no vehicle service so we no service on the property no correct okay I don't have any further questions on Mr use I don't the board does any questions through the chair go ahead uh you mentioned something about using landscape trucks and other kinds of equipment is that specifically for your business or is that subleasing it to other businesses other business if they want to store their vehicles there I've had them approach me and ask me can they park there and you know do their work out of there and perhaps I should I I should explain um the use the use VAR application or uh the use variance aspect of the application so Mr use currently has a plumbing business uh on site it's been there for 20 30 years if you wanted to store pipes Plumping equipment on site that would not that would not require a use fance the use fance is required because the storage of the materials the RVs is on related to his business and because it's unrelated to the business it requires a use fance so the the storage of the RVs or the boats uh okay are unrelated so that's that triggers the use f thank you what would be stored in the containers the containers that are uh you're planning on putting in there the uh trailers like you have one there now yeah that's that's my storage trailer I have Plumbing equipment in there okay but the people who will be leasing the area on the property what will they be storing or what can they store in the containers well whatever they store in their equipment if they have uh I don't know if they bring a trailer and they have hot water heaters or toilets or sinks or whatever they bring in there you know I'd have to check and see what they're putting in it will they have workers in the containers who will be able to do any work on the equipment or is it just for storage no this is this just storage this would be for example a uh I'm just giving an example there's a there's a local electrician who has nowhere to store his equipment you know the wires the pipes whatever he uses if he had a storage trailer he would store you know the the equip the items he wasn't using in a storage trailer and maybe once a week once a month maybe twice a week he would come to the site open a trailer pull out some wires or whatever inventory he needed and then leave nothing will be done on the site okay so so the trailers will be there continuously yes they're not mobile they're not in in and out no that's not the pur will they be set on the ground or will they be will they be raised on the concrete blocks could be put on blocks it could be put on 6x6 it won't be laying on the ground okay and how many trailers do you propose to be on the site so it doesn't just become a a place to store supplies in other words something like little warehouses well I would assume they could probably put four or five trailers on there with no problem and have still have plenty of room for other stuff Mr Peters Madam chair um thank you I wanted to sort of try to put our arms around this a little better um so Mr Hughes Mr Middleton often the board when they hear use variant's applications and someone comes in and says this is what we're proposing to do often the board wants to hear what we're not going to do because at some point in time when yall leave here the only Enforcement issue we have have is is your testimony correct so someone comes out and says does something different and the code enforcement officer says I don't know so I'm going to ask a couple of questions and please understand they're not meant to be forward they're meant to make a clear record we appreciate and the members who are here are your neighbors they're not here to to crucify you so the questions I'm going to ask have to do with other applications we've heard and other issues that the municip alties had they're not specific to you Mr Hughes they're specific to things that have happened in the town we want to make sure we write them down that you said no I'm not going to do this right so the first one you're going to find odd the trailers yes will you limit how high people can stack them yes I would to one I just one well we we heard an application a couple weeks ago where someone wants to bring in trailers work on the trailers and bring them back out problem is you're stack them three High see the problems so while we understand what you want to do we need to ask you some questions to indicate what you're not going to do so we could sort of around your uses if that makes sense so for the record no stacking of Trail obvious obviously this lease area will it be available to more than one I'm going to call it tenant yes okay can you explain to the board how that gets controlled in other words you're not leasing the entire fenced in area in the back are you is your stuff still going to be there or you're going to lease that to anyone who wants to walk up and lease it no my my I have that little corner I have one trailer in there use your microphone oh I have that one corner and I have a trailer in there and that's my equipment that's right now that's all I'm using okay and again the the reason that the board wants to get some specifics is because God forbid at some point you sell the property this variance goes with the land so the next person who buys it from you can you know now all of a sudden what we've created is a parking lot right as opposed to a storage area so we're going to be asking some specific questions so that we have an idea of who's responsible for safety and the control of the people entering the site and The Times They enter the site yes is that you yes okay um will you be running any additional utilities out there like electric or water and sewer no again the reason being one of the board members already asked is someone going to work out there you have people with storage trailers run electric out there and people are working no we'll stipulate on a record no no utilities whatsoever no electric no gas no water and no one's going to be working on vehicles out there no the only the only thing I Envision is I'm the electrician I go to pick up my equipment and leave again we we appreciate that but we're just going to close it in by saying you're not going to do these other things correct um I have water on the back of my building that that's next to the fence that I hook hoses to water the trees and stuff to keep keep the landscape in good condition um so this least area is going to be open sort of to the public yes are you going to require your tenants to have some sort of insurance that's correct yes okay um I think that's those are the questions I think I've sort of opened up a can for the the board to ask more questions but I wanted to ask a couple things first is um you're building up front the W the showroom that's open to the public the building in the your second building in the back isn't open to the public right no okay and the whole building in the front's not open to the public it's only a little section and it's mostly for my clients that I do to work for the people that I do the houses for I let them come in and pick out the fixtures that they want down on Sterling um where the entrance to the the back area is yes currently we have the the dumpsters usually outside that fenced area are you going to have another dumpster for your contractors in the back most likely I I probably will in case I don't want any debris throwing around and Well here here's what the town doesn't want I don't we don't want a series of Dum comers out on Sterling that aren't in a enclosure well that's not really on Sterling it's on my property I just didn't I didn't bring the fence out that far so it's on the corner of my you know it's up against my fence I kept it off the road another 10 15 ft I understand I think that's probably one of the site plan issues we need to discuss Mr Middleton yeah when when I first did the building respectfully it's a dumpster on the ground yes there's no enclosure there's no safety and and I understand that generally that's the easiest way to access it but please understand that it's in a front yard it's not protected you know you're going to now bring one or 25 people in and we just want to make sure that in the end we create a good plan that you can be responsible for to the public um I just explained to Mr use that the ordinance would require enclosures around the dumpsters he he he's agreed and Miss I think the engineer can talk about that we'll figure something out we'll figure something I want to know if we're going to end up needing another one for the least area because then we want to talk about where it is because I don't want contractors 10 of them bringing stuff out front they don't fill it up it ends up on the side of the road you know you have that problem with pallets all the time I understand okay that's all I have at this point Madam chair I just wanted to sort of Kickstart the conversation through the chair oh I'm sorry got I was say thank you U so the applicant has has submitted essentially the use variance is new up to this point the facilities that currently exist out there were planning board approvals uh issued by the Township's planning board for the way the site currently exists so the applicant is proposing something entirely new which requires the use variants as such because they are proposing additional uses than what were originally approved they required to amend the site plan approval which was issued actually back in uh 2011 initially in 1983 and then again in uh 2011 for an expansion for the warehouse the plan that was submitted to you is nothing more than an existing conditions plan the applicant has not proposed any in physical improvements to this site however uh based on the intensification of the use based on multiple tenants possibly being involved there should be site plan site plan improvements considered by this board I would hope we've seen enough of these types of applications where we've like to lock the applicant or the area down into where are these tenants entering and exiting the facility how are they restricted from entering and exit entering the facility during off hours I.E is there a a gate with a lock box possibly and a code uh what type of sight lighting may or may not be required what type of additional landscape buffering may or may not be required because of the intensification of the use how are all of these individual storage areas going to be delineated so it's not just a freefor all it's one thing for the applicant to indicate well I'm going to manage that but if the applicant sells the property somebody else comes in we've always we've always requested that the areas within the fence be delineated and by that I mean certain areas and certain only areas certain areas can only contain trailer storage where are those areas and how many trailers can it accommodate what kind of buffering around those trailers what kind of accesses to those trailers if there's outdoor storage of materials bulk materials what type of bulk materials are they and they're going to be restricted to that type of material only I heard that it's possibly a landscape company does that that mean they're going to be manufacturing mulch or storing stock piles of soil or grass clippings or leaves those kind of things if so where on site um in addition to delineating where those areas for each specific use are located within the site how do we ensure that there's adequate site circulation for emergency vehicles how do we how do we also delineate or where are the part parking spaces delineated for those contractors who will drive their personal vehicles to the site and then take construction vehicles or possibly landscape trucks out of here so none of that information has been presented on this plan and that is all of that information is typically what we've asked for and required from applicants on similar applications so um I'm not trying to uh over complicate this um but there's been I didn't generate an engineering report because there was nothing to generate an engineering report on and I didn't want to write write a report just saying that um I think I I think to classify this as this is a very simple application uh this board does not take these type view these applications as simple they like to nail they like to they they like to know exactly what what's going on at this site and I'm I don't have those details I'm not hearing those details at this point yeah I again I so so you're look I I believe from what I'm hearing um you're looking for a the site plan to be updated yeah and provide uh obviously much more detailed well you came in here saying it's an amended site plan application but there's no Amendment to the site plan you're showing me what currently exists right you're not right so looking at is saying okay you're you're proposing to do all these things um no I understand I I what I just wanted to regurgitate what you said you're looking for much more detail because we don't have we did not show on a plan what is being proposed all of the items that I just brought up are historically what this board has required for the last 20 22 years since I've been sitting here so you can go back and review some of the videos online of similar types of applic that might help you also I think I understand you're tell you're showing us a fenced in area with all these kinds of things you want to do but not explaining to us that the site can accommodate it it's not we don't I can't if the board were to ask me is this site ideally suited to accommodate these uses I'd have to say I don't know I don't know because there's no information provided yeah through the chair yes um in reviewing the application I do see a statement of operations here which in and of itself alone it's a letter dated July 31st 2023 lends itself to the fact that I I think again to Echo uh Mr Hill's point I I think we would want uh an amended site plan here there there's this is it the way that I'm reading this we have we have one use on the property we're proposing a second and you know the storage of heavy equipment trailers landscape equipment um you know that that in of itself needs needs a circulation plan it needs you know we need to see the parking plan we need to see the layout of the parking lot all of those types of things um you know that that we don't have in front of us um so I would I would you know again caution the board on Pro proceeding with this application at this point because as far as I'm concerned for an amended site plan application this application is not complete um now that legally it's complete but um you know I don't think we have sufficient information here make determination could I have two minutes with my client and then and just we understand we we hear loud and clear what you're saying absolutely I just need two minutes in the hall and I'll be right back of course Madam chair lady before we do that uh one quick question the approvals that were granted in 1983 and 2011 were approvals granted by the planning board yes okay so the uses were permitted at the time was there is there any approval in either one of those resolutions 1983 or 2011 that allowed outside storage of anything well when I had my uh when I had my uh storage building I had trailers there at all times well I understand that I I visited the site so I'm aware of that my question is so that we don't get into an area that we don't need to get into my question is based on approvals previously granted did any of those approvals allow for outside storage of anything no so all the storage we're talking about tonight is is part of this new use that you're asking for would let me me the 2000 right that the 19 1983 approval and I I have a copy I'll hand them out before I go in the hallway um it was sort of short and sweet and essentially said uh site plan to construct a warehouse with office space and parking located in the M1 Zone applicant is also seeking waivers from providing internal parking lot external curb sidewalk payment pay uh payment winding and that was all approved the 2011 an application that was filed by Mr us as we we spoke about and that was to construct another building and I do note paragraph 7 page three there are a number of existing trailers on site which may be stored on the property um however no employees or other person shall be permitted to resign in any any of them so I haven't scoured this before tonight about that issue but I do notice that but the excuse me the trailers that were existing at that time they were only for Mr hughes's business not rented out to others correct no absolutely we're again we're here tonight because I just want to make it clear to everyone that th at that time that was approved but those trailers were for Mr hughes's 100% correct I I also wanted to make sure that if what we have here is a a new application for a new use that all of those proposed uses have been noticed so we don't have a notice problem so it's okay to notice even for the outside storage of materials yes okay thank you thank [Music] you thank you sure this is really than you just give if you don't have enough she could always print them out s the we're going to take a five minute break until they come back okay e e e e e e e e e e e e e call the meeting back to order Mr Hill did you have something you wanted to say um I I I did have a question for the applicant and the property owner if I could um so I don't I don't we don't excuse me we weren't provided a copy but I'm I I think we're going to be able to get it of the site plan approval from 2011 I don't we don't have that plan we have the resolution but we don't have that plan but we believe we have it on file at Town Hall Mr hes do you recall in in during that site plan approval that was specifically for the metal garage correct that's correct that second building did that approval also include the gravel parking lot that's behind there or is that something that you did after that well I I got an approval to clear it a lot and then I put Stone down okay because I and that was after that was after the 2011 approval yeah that was way after I went for the per zoning and I got you got a tree permit I got a tree removal and then I I cleared the lot and I put Stone down cuz I didn't want mud puddles and everything all okay and I had people riding through there with uh gol you know motorcycles and throwing beer bottles all over so just understand something and it's a procedural thing that that should have been an amended site plan as well back then when to do that because what you did now triggered you added more impervious cover than what was originally permitted under your 2011 approval imperious cover being the the millings and gravel that you use and so on so doing that would have now triggered storm water management measures being required so you you expanded your site plan okay by by Paving it and using that area you don't have that approval yet so and this is really more going to be geared towards your engineer I think he I'm I'm hoping he understands where I'm picking up where I'm going with this ultimately but um you know ultimately you're going to have to decide and you're going have to consult with your engineer because by expanding beyond your 2011 approval you're going to have to make sure that there's adequate Provisions for storm water management built into this new site plan application um possibly curbing I mean possibly things that the board are going to want to see as well so but at a minimum you're going to have to take a look at what kind of storm water management yeah right now all the storm water's going down the edge of the road it's all it's all dirt roads and well that's the problem you're supposed to be managing all your stor want to run off on your site I am it's going into the ground with this underneath the stone I'll let I'll let I mean your engineer can you can talk to your engineer about that but I'm going okay all right but I yeah I just wanted to ask those questions and bring that up as well yeah thank you for the heads up so we have to hearing your uh engineer and your planner um obviously we have to provide the board with a more detailed site plan as opposed to an as built plan um so that's what we elected to do there's no no need to go further tonight obviously okay we're not going to accomplish anything for the chair I'm going to make a suggestion because applicant this happens sometimes and what we're going to what we what Ernie and I recommend in this instance is if you could reach out to uh Jeff's office or on uh email Dawn but you could also copy both of us I would recommend that we have a TRC meeting prior to you putting together too much effort I mean you can start thinking about it I think that's a good idea we should it's a zoom we can do it over Zoom a it's a great idea but we should have a TRC meeting to talk about what we think are is going to be um important to the board moving forward okay we have we have no issue with that and and we're glad that was uh proposed okay thanks quick question Mr Middleton based upon the information that was just relayed by Mr Hill uh are you going to need to Ren notice yes we'll Ren notice okay all right um we did have conversation off the record my understanding is the applicant is being uh requesting to be carried to the May 15 2024 meeting yeah we going to have yes I just want to speak to the yeah please go ahead yes May 15th yes May 15th okay like to shoot for that all right so application number one James 's uh 280 Faraday Avenue amended site plan relation to block 22112 Lot 2 this um application is being carried to the May 15 2024 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment um the applicant will Ren notice the application um and I don't believe time is applicable here but if applicable applicant wave time thank you yeah it wave the time on it record thank you yes oh yeah okay what why don't we do that before we carry you're right sorry about that open the public yes um we're going to open this to the public you can ask questions on anything you've heard this evening obviously they're going to be coming back on May 15th but anyone wishing to come forward please do so at this time seeing no one come forward I'm going to close public session prior announcement stands this has been carried to May 15th uh with the requirement to Reen notice have a good night thank you motion to adjourn all in favor