e e e e e e e e e e e not good evening everybody there we go welcome to the June 3 Jackson Township master plan subcommittee hearing this meeting is one of a series of meetings that we'll be having throughout the course of the next few weeks uh along with the prior ones that we've had uh to request public comment in all the areas of the master plan that we're going to be revising uh tonight is going to be the circulation plan element uh and the trans or and the utility services plan element circulation plan element is kind of self-explanatory it's uh one of the ones that everybody likes to talk about it's traffic uh circulation its Transportation uh trafficking of goods consumer uh and public um and for the most part that's what a lot of people have been coming up and talking about um so tonight we have uh not only malvika opte are professional Planner on the matter uh we also have Kevin Chen who's the traffic engineer uh for CMA who's going to be uh putting some testimony on the record to explain exactly what's going to be going on all right so I'll leave it up to miss melv good evening um so uh just like the last two um public comment uh meetings that we had tonight's our focus is going to be the other two elements the circulation plan and the utility plan element um could I get the next slide please all right um this is generally an overview of what the presentation tonight is going to be next slide please um so till now we've discussed you know we talked about how some of the required elements are as per the municipal land use law you have your goals and objective land use um your climate change vulnerability assessment these other elements are as per the municipal land use law optional elements however Township of Jackson because they are doing a comprehensive update to their master plan is taking into consideration reviewing all these additional elements last uh we last uh meeting we discussed the housing plan element could we get the next slide please so this one what we have remaining are the other uh five of them tonight we are only talking about circulation utility uh on June 17th we'll be talking about the last um presentation which will be the parks recreation open space the historic preservation and the economic development again this is the first meeting like first public meetings where we are looking for ideas we are looking for comments from the public on each of these elements um next slide please so what is a circulation element as Mr Shay said um it has to do with the circulation Network within your town it's basically movement of freight movement of people movement of goods within your Township um the circulation plan element is going to review all types of movement whether it's through your roadway Network whether there is any public transportation whether there is Bikeway um roadway circulation whether there is pedestrian circulation so what uh that element requires us to do is review what is the roadway Network within your Township what improvements happened since the last time your master plan uh was updated um um what is it uh what land users have changed around those roadway Network which is our you know how land use element will lend into this circulation element for us and uh review based on the type of uh roadway Network that exist now Jackson is a unique Town it does have a vast network of County um roadways so what we'll have to do is take into that into consideration have a dialogue with the county um Authority roadway authority to talk about you know what do they have plans for their roadway Network within the township of Jackson I believe one of those meetings we will be conducting uh oneon-one from engineer to engineer to discuss you know what are their plans for um the county uh roadway Network Improvement the second is we another item that the land use law um statute requires us to look at when we're looking at circulation element is like all of you do probably know there is a state statute on providing electric vehicle uh parking spaces throughout you know for any private development that happens the similar the State statue also wants you to look at your public areas where these electric vehicle um charging station parking networks can be provided and that will be included in part of this circulation element uh I'm going to stop here to discuss circulation element I am going to introduce my colleague Mr Kevin Shen who is an expert in transportation and traffic engineering he is going to talk a little bit about what he's going to review I also want to bring up to you is these two easel that have maps on it they kind of show just a preliminary you know roadway Network we've been able to download this data from the state and the Federal Highway Network the classification and that's what it's showing it's the preliminary review it is not the you know the recommended uh plan as of yet so Kevin do you want to add a little bit thanks sure sure thank you uh my name is Kevin Chen I am the traffic I'm a traffic engineer at CME Associates uh basically with regards to the circulation plan element uh what we what we what I'll be what I'll be doing is I'll be reviewing uh parts of the uh circulation plan in terms of uh intersections roadways roadways that need uh various improvements so my my previous experience along the last 16 years at CME Associates I've been doing intersection Improvement projects signing and striping projects uh reviews of different applications and basically tonight uh I'm here to uh take down your comments with regard to the traffic and transportation and all the other related subjects with the ards to the circulation plan element uh I'm interested in where where are the traffic problems that you are experiencing uh it should be noted that there's a little over somewhere between 20 and 25 25% of the roadways in the township are count are under County jurisdiction so uh the those those areas that are under County jurisdiction we we're going to need to have a discussion with the county with regards to the what their plans are what we'd like to see what you what you as the township would like to see happen and uh go from there but as of tonight I we're I and the rest of the uh subcommittee here we're interested in hearing what are the traffic transportation problems are are you having have you seen have you experienced have you experienced uh for example uh traffic light that is uh not giving you enough green time have you experienced uh roadways where you have like let's say uh several different shops along that you'd like to be able to walk to but there's no there's no uh pedestrian there's no sidewalk have you experienced uh a a large area where a bicycle bicycle path would be desired and even encouraged but there's but there's no bicycle path whether it be shared or uh adjacent to the roadway uh other traffic and transportations like does the intersection does an intersection uh right now does it need signalization does it need uh does it need a stop sign uh for other for other areas in other developments uh if you're trying if you see a large amount of people crossing a roadway do you need uh a crosswalk and or other uh pedestrian Crossing enhancements those are the type of those and other subjects related to circulation plan element those are the items that we are interested in hearing from you tonight um I believe I've captured everything else did I get anything yeah yeah thank you um one quick thing I do as Mr Chen said um you know if if there anybody out there I know this uh meeting is televised also so you know if somebody wasn't able to make it to the meeting and you have particular concerns of some intersection or some roadway Network please have those concerns shown on the ideas wall and you know um posted there because we are we are monitoring that we are reviewing that we would like to know from you your concerns of the township because at the end of the day this element and this master plan is going to be making the recommendations for seeing infrastructure improvements land use improvements um zoning changes again that this will be the blueprint that will be kind of helping the policy makers of the township to see as to what's the area they want to change through zoning through regulation go through a go to county for infrastructure improvements for Grant requirements because that that's the blueprint that will provide um the Township's governing body the planning board to you know advise on any application that comes in any approval that happens any changes that happen so again for anybody who's watching and is not able to or is going to watch later please post your comments on the ideas well and I I will share in the end you know we have the um the address um thank you for that um could we get the next slide please um this next slide again also shows about the circulation map you know most of the yellow that you see again this is showing the Federal Highway classification again in the element we will have another the map that will show which are the county roads which are the road local roads and you know provide you the classification so mostly this yellow and little bit of the pink that you can see on the pro on this map is mostly County County owned uh roads so again any changes to make for that we will have to go through County the county is the deciding factors on what improvements can be made however with this through this element we can make those recommendations to the county hey this is the concern we've seen because of this and so on and so forth and that will help County almost you know review it and have some kind of blueprint for them to keep in mind and of course with the expertise expertise of Mr Chen if you guys tell him of this particular intersection on this particular roadway Network that is of concern to you you know he and his team will be studying that over the next couple of months and probably you know will be able to provide a uh a professional uh background for the for the recommendations for those improvements and which is what the element would want which is what the county would want as to why you know we are asking for the infrastructure improvements that we are asking um is that so the next next slide please the other part of the element uh the other element that we want to briefly discuss is we will be uh putting as part of this comprehensive master plan in is the utility service plan element this is basically uh you know the the land use law requires you to study your uh wastewater treatment uh areas how that's served how is the public water served uh we do have a dialogue with the municipal utility authorities uh you know as to what their uh in how their infrastructure is what's what's happening is it been what are their recommendations for the future uh how do they Envision and under that category we'll be looking at um the water supply and distribution the seage and waste treatment plants the solid waste disposal and other such um utilities uh we'll also be Consulting with your Township engineer regarding the storm water management plan if any suggestions or recommendations need to be made for that again the master plan can be that document can be that tool that provides the recommendation for your governing body for your planning board to you know provide the to change that recommendation into an ordinance to make those improvements uh that will benefit you know the the town for the health prosperity and well-being of the town next slide please and I think that I just wanted to provide you with an overview of what the two elements are going to be this is the um Township website address where you can post um you know again your quick con concerns your quick ideas and please you know if you still have ideas on land use plan element on housing plan element on goals and objectives please you can you can put it in any time that just don't think that you know because those presentations happened couple of weeks back you can no longer post those ideas we are I know Madame chair is closely monitoring that and she is making sure you know the ideas get posted and uh you know uh we uh keeps us posted of in any any new um comments that have come in I think I've covered most but uh please let me know if something else needs to be added thank you just just uh one more thing just to follow up on what malva was discussing before uh the point of these meetings is entirely for the public uh we don't have to do this we don't have to be here um we're doing this entirely for the Public's benefit we want as much feedback on all these uh all these locations that the public can possibly give us um every intersection anybody has any personal knowledge of any walking pth that that they think they should be there biking paths uh crosswalks anything uh any individualized personal knowledge um given to us in any capacity by way of any method is more than acceptable to everybody up here and that's the reason why we're here um so again there's a subtab on the Jackson Township planning board website that is the master plan uh subtab which is the wall uh that we keep on referring to and speaking to it's it's a means by which almost like a Dropbox of letting us know um what your personal recommendations are uh what your personal experiences have been uh and and put as much detail as you possibly can with Zone the streets locations uh as much detail as you can so that we have context for what you're talking about and where it is um and it's really just for your benefit so whoever is here uh we can start with public comment Mr chairwoman you have anything you want to yep good to see you again nice to see you guys please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth yes I know it all right please state your name spell your last of the record uh Jim Sakia s l ECC H six hard Field Drive uh before I really start my first you brought it up the whole concept of this meeting be for the public and that you don't have to do it one comment I'd like to make to you is you have agreed to do it so you should have really considered the Public's need to be here instead of just the people that are on the Das which is what you said last week you did not say we looked at you know it was not that people aren't available it was you guys weren't this is the best time for you guys it wasn't is the best time for the residents and what you just said now was this is for the residents those two don't match that's just my comment on it now I'll go back to I'm probably going to go over to five minutes so I'll probably do two if you let me I'll do parking now I'll do my the second topic later first two words I'm going to use and not only for parking but for everything in this common sense that's what everybody needs to look at when they're building this thing what do I mean by that is there was a resident at one of the last ones that came up and said make sure you look at some of the other Master plans of other towns and see what worked and what didn't work so my thought process was okay well we have a town right next to us that right now is experiencing massive traffic gyms I'm not going to get into why or what but let's look at that town that town has four state highways Parkway Route 9 Route 70 and Route 88 all going through the majority of that town okay so having businesses in that environment makes sense because you have all the major highways Jackson Township has one state highway and it runs for I don't know I'm going to guess seven miles on the Northern tip of the township and that's it and if you bring up the map you can see because I think you clearly showed it on on your circul map so when you when you're looking at at not just the traffic flow but even the businesses that are coming before you guys now they're going to add to the traffic flow and I know we hear it every meeting you can't look at overall traffic when you're looking at one uh application but now let's look at all the traffic that we're going to be dealing with and and this town is seeing it okay I left my house at 3:30 today so I can go out to the high school to watch the the the baseball game which is a championship game which is probably why there's not more people here tonight again timing of the meeting um I turned off of New Prospect onto Bennett Mills and I have never seen Bennett Mills Road backed up that far okay it literally went past Romeo's Plaza I don't know probably another tenth of a mile down 3:30 in the afternoon it's not even rush hour maybe school hour I get that but that's a significant piece that's not the only Road there are many other roads you go down Hope Chapel okay Hope Chapel is a disaster you know we have to before before we start building all of these warehouses and I'm looking at the meeting on the agenda on the meeting tonight is three different contractor warehouses or two contractor warehouses maybe a full Warehouse you'll hear me talk at those that meeting because I have my thoughts there but I I won't bring them up but that's all going to bring in traffic okay and these roads are not designed the roads in Jackson were designed how many years ago when we were a Farmland that's the reality of it so before we start building and we made this mistake okay and we're paying for it that we did not consider all the road work that needed to be done before we started seeing all this development you know that's going on and and this master plan can't stop what's already in in play here so we have some significant problems that we're going to have to deal with because trying to fix roads after the fact just makes it worse trying to trying to widen the road when you're GNA how are you going to widen it you have traffic jams now what what what are you going to do how do you New Prospect Road here's my perfect example you want a you want a road that I want to complain about in May of 2022 a press release out of the mayor's office listed six roadways that were planned for Paving and on the list was New Prospect Road and I get it New Prospect Road is a county road so the county has control the the the press release stated that these these projects would all be completed by the spring of 2023 it is now June of 2024 New Prospect Road hasn't been touched and yes I heard well there's more to they're now looking to widen it and and so forth problem is by the time they figure out how to widen it and start doing it the potholes on that road are going to be immense I can tell you one of I I live three houses off of New Prospect Road okay if a truck is going down New Prospect Road and hits there's a there's a pretty decent size I don't know if it's a divot or just a dip in the road but as they hit it okay my house shakes and I'm three houses in so we we we have to do better we're going to have bigger vehicles on on these roads with all these you know with all this Warehouse that you're putting up you know all and I get it we built we said we're going to put our industrial park out on Whitesville Road I know Whitesville Road is a two-lane Highway and where where where we were thinking about that makes no sense and I get it it's not this board it's been previous boards but that's what I'm saying nobody uses common sense when they're looking at things everybody goes to well what are we going to do if we're sued and the reality is if you're sued that's fine go in with a common sense approach to the lawsuit and and let the courts decide the true facts in this case so Prospect Road is a is a major part for me I can tell you you know if you want to go you want to meet Whitesville Road with everything that's being built is is an issue um have a clock up oh okay okay all right so then I so so so on the I well I I said should I come back for the utility piece and give them a chance or do you want to hear it now all right so let's talk about the utility piece for a little bit and Mr Shay you and I've had this conversation about my situation okay my family moved into the house that I'm living in today in 1974 okay in the between our house and the house behind us there used to be a creek that ran all the way down to harfield park at some point in the late 70s one of the homeowners went to the town and the town for some reason said yeah that's your property you can do whatever you want and he started he fills it in and he gets all his neighbors to start filling it in since that day if we have some bad rain we have water problems and it's because the drainage area that was built to help us the town overlooked and let it and let it get filled in so we still deal with it you know yes I I've I've learned as I've gotten older in over the years what I need you know I started out going okay well first time it happened I got to replace my entire downstairs second time after the first one okay now I got to go out and get a generator you know now that you know really can't run a generator in the rain so got to be careful where you're running it so the only other option is a home home A full a home home generator and those are not cheap so I don't have that yet but that's my next step if I go that route so looking at the drainage that's in this town is horrendous and know I get the Public Works tries to keep the drainages clean they're never clean you watch these rainstorms we've had over the last couple of years that there's water all over the place you go down Farm Andale Road after a heavy rainstorm and there's a guy on there that that has a swimming pool as his front yard and it gets to a point where it's halfway out in the road and someone is when it happens puts cones out make sure everybody is aware of it so we need to do a better job on a drainage in this town especially as we're building that's as we build more and more there's less place for the water to go so it's going to find it's going to look to find go somewh so those are the things that we need to seriously take into consideration even looking at all the applications and I get it the courts have ruled and you got to you can't do this and that but you know this is a point in time where we have to really figure out how to do this the right way because if you don't if you don't all you're GNA do is you're gonna have a something's going to happen this town that's not going to be very nice and unfortunately you know three days ago four days ago we had a reminder of that is that these roads are not designed for the traffic volumes that we have and as the vehicles are getting larger the lanes aren't getting larger so all it takes is one little tweak of a wheel for someone to go out you know five less than five feet and you're in trouble because there's no place if person's coming you up and sit way I can tell you I've today alone I had it happen to me twice we have a delivery truck parked on the side of the road and people come in where the delivery truck is they don't look to see if anybody's coming the other way they just go out into the other lane because they got to get around the delivery truck I get it you can't you can't fix stupidity on people that's just you know I get it you know but those are the things that you have to understand that are happening and say what are the best things that we can do to help the residents so I'll leave it at that have a good night good evening board Ryan Archer a r c h eer do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do I'm just going to move this a little bit further away what's what's your address 486 Frank appgate Road okay I like to start by extending my uh Keepers prayers and thoughts to the family members who uh passed away this past weekend the mother and daughter or son whoever it was my uh deepest apologies for that and I pray for that family immensely um I want to thank the Professionals for giving their thoughts and professional opinion on everything couple questions for you regarding the growth rate what do you what basis of population in 10 years are you expecting to be in the Township from the 60,000 that are here now what are you what projected number are you using so in all honesty we're not ready for a quiz um so this is pretty much much just a forum for the public to be able to come I'm just trying to understand the basis I mean I know it's going to expand and that's just common knowledge that Pro you don't stop I'm sorry these are things we are looking into and this is what the professionals are doing they they will be making these types of um studies and from the township the county um and they'll be included in the report yeah as we go along yeah it's just I know it's a complicated issue because we're such a a rural area and we're going to see an influence of population I mean it's unavoidable and I'm just trying to understand how you're projecting the it's not it's not easy no it's not easy we moved here when I moved here in 1970 the New York Times magazine section called Jackson Township the fastest growing town in the fastest growing county in the United States that was in 1970 and you know what that did that the brookwoods when the brookwoods were built and people were up in arms because the farmlands were disappearing and Mr Schurz was building buildings faster than and selling them faster than hotaks so it's very difficult to predict what changes are going to take place in a Township when something like that happens of course one of the things that these boards do is we try to look at that type of building but there are things out of our control as far as some of those changes uh that are occurring are so that's part of what the professionals will be doing thank you um next question how many residents are currently living in this town I I said the approximate number is that fair enough 60,000 give or take 10,000 I mean I'm just 1970 there were 22,000 and now there are between 60 and 70,000 can you please State how many residents are currently in this room if you could just tell me well of course what's the number they about 10 if that correct and and and remember we also have people online and I did discover and I was pleased to hear it that many people are watching these proceedings at their Leisure that's that's good to hear because I was going to say it's a little embarrassing to have I don't even know what percentage that would be uh 6 to 60,000 it's you can't even formulate that number so I would be a little embarrassed that we don't have more of a outcome at these important meetings everyone on this board except our professionals are residents we are all residents here as well so you know you can count us um sure we we are are are volunteers trying to help the township move in a positive direction understood understood um so I had brought up a document last week which you're aware of the general amendment to the master plan I had you guys tested some of the objectives um and I didn't realize that the professionals came back and said that those objectives could change at some point but the basis of the objective seemed pretty reasonable to me and I just want an understanding of how those objectives could possibly change so I me I can repeat them again if You' like I don't know if you recall the three objectives that I made um do you remember that or I do have my notes I can pull it up or if you want to repeat yeah so uh the objectives were and I apologize for delay I my bles off and this one was underlined to provide for limited non-resident D development in residential zones while projecting the existing character of neighborhoods why would that objective possibly change so we didn't I believe I uh the way I made the statement is we are looking at all the goals and objectives we are not changing all of them we are changing some of them again depending on you know those goals were written in 2009 in 20 well these are these are actually so so what what what you have what you have number one is product of litigation right it is post litigation sir is it okay so so that's number one number two um that is not what you have in your hand is not a product of anything that the master plan subcommittee is looking into nothing that the planner has looked into or done they they product is not even finished yet the the whole point of the hearings was to have public comment first before these guys guys even really started you know digging into to what we were doing we wanted as much feedback as possible to take it all in um and then and then start Mak kind of informed decisions based upon the feedback that we're getting from the public so what you have is is kind of it's the result of a consent order though is byproduct of litigation number one and number two it's is going to be subject to change based upon what the master plan subcommittee you know may be doing okay so we just that's just not going to be released until the as you know I can't speak to the planning board during a regular meeting right right correct and and that's kind of the reason why I'm mixing in this and this document in there what you what you can do is that that is a that's a type of document that you can take to a Township council meeting exactly which I have right and you might be aware of I'm not sure if you are they have the proper jurisdiction to really kind of elaborate on it where we really don't I understand that um so I won't ask any questions specifically I do like to make a statement though okay okay so in the original complaint the planning board was labeled as a defendant in this case I don't need you to respond from what I I read I believe the mayor is a part of the planning board if I'm not mistaken that's what it says I believe he is a designate he a design okay so somehow sends a des okay so I mean do do you deny the fact that it you guys were a def not the board were labeled in in as a defendant please remember that the the membership on this board has changed absolutely Almost 100% absolutely and I understand that litigation I understand that I do so so just so that you understand that the board is not the same board I absolutely understand that it was and I'm not accusing any officials of any wrongdoing volunteers of any wrongdoing by to help people understand when they when you talk about the board the board is the body the members change complicated I I I agree comp very complicated um so yeah this platform might not be the right platform and I understand that so I will refrain no no I I don't want to make anybody feel uncomfortable no no not at all this is this is where you can say this to a certain degree but the appropriate place I try to go to the tal Comm meetings the zoning board meetings as as well as be here because they all interconnect understood we can only listen to testimony usually I know that out of planning board correct we don't listen to public comments the place to go for public comments which is the planning board absolutely uh the Town Council no the township Council the township Council and also remember that there are is a county there are County groups that you can make certain statements to for instance on circulation there there is a place that I encourage residents here to go to speak about the county road system yes okay I'm just questioning actually the validity of the consent order at this time and not through you guys so it's it's for the Town Council and I appreciate that so the number of increase of residents is unknown at this time because it's it's so hard to narrow down but how do you fairly how do you fairly engineer an infrastructure a municipal facility based on the unknown and and be fair with that 10-year plan how do you how could you possibly estimate that because it could be anything I mean and and like I said I understand uh progress and I accept progress I mean it's inevitable but but how do you properly prepare for that especially when you don't have control of 25% of the roads and that's a problem here with and it's not a problem just because I know it's it's just it's coming up so how is that how is that even feasible to be created master plan of this extraordinary change because the ones before that you know the township had a huge growth rate I when was that in the 80s 90s 70s and then the 90s again I'm assuming right again yep and but but then all of a sudden it kind of stopped right approximately according to uh some reports and statistics large changes come about every 20 years and and here we are in 2024 we have had 10 years of another huge change so it it's not possible to predict but I think our professionals can explain how we go about the process okay oh sorry so I can hear you now I'll repeat that um so um as I said before we are studying lot of these elements in Tandem and that's one of the reason why land use element is that element where we review your existing zoning your existing land use plan we which is basically you know we look at every parcel in this town and what land use category it currently is in your zoning District in as part of our climate assessment which was another element I spoke about we'll prepare a buildout analysis as to if tomorrow the entire town was going to get built out based on the zoning that it currently exists not predicting you know any kind of major use variances which have which are you know as Madame chair said out of control if something you know does get approved but we create a buildout analysis to see what would happen if the entire town tomorrow got built out we will take into consideration the environmental areas that can never get built out you know their Wetlands or what have you on Pinelands area so we'll create a buildout analysis we will also based on you know the zoning board reports the planning board uh reviews or applications that have happened study you know where has this changes happened now that changes like say supposing it was along the highway which is and please don't qu like I'm hypothetically kind of giving you examples we see you know suddenly there's BL off red why I say red is in land use element we always associate commercial with red uh you know color on the land use plan if we see a blob of red and that area is currently zoned residential and if 70% of that area has already been approved for commercial maybe it's time Township looks at that being converted if that's getting converted how is that impacting your circulation Network we'll be working in tandem with Mr Chen to discuss hey you know this is the roadway that you know is ultimately I think going to become the commercial Corridor what do you propose should happen hearing your ideas of you know already the gentleman before you did give us some Road names which are of concern Mr Chen and his team will be looking at those roadways and if one of those roadways are in that maybe it's time to make recommendations to change those you know unfortunately most of our roadways are intersected by County Roads and and that's where you st back to the original issue of dealing with the county yeah and a problem and also like I know I know part of the reason is yes it's County controlled you know roadways but what county is actually looking with the you know actually having a dialogue with Township of Jackson they're saying uh you know we we are ready to work with you in updating your infrastructure but what we want you to look is first at your master plan because that wasn't updated since 2009 where are you even going to begin to tell us where you need the infrastructure so that is the first step they want us to study these roads they want us to make these recommendations and they're ready to come to the table uh we actually are as part of our research going to have a um County you know engineer to engineer Dialogue on uh you what is it that they have planned and does that coincide with whatever recommendations we are making so that's how that's why it's very important when you do a comprehensive master plan you look at every every element now the next uh on 17th we're going to talk about your open space your historic obviously those are the areas you do want to preserve you don't want to see any development you know you want to preserve your open space system you want to preserve your historic areas so then you know is that going through you know is there a major roadway Network there if there is how do we protect that area that's that element going to help help you know Township and its policymaking decide that so that's how it'll all inter and decide understood so go ahead Also may I mention that our our professionals C me this is not their first rodeo uh no I understand that they're professionals I'm I'm in construction so I'm familiar with some of the names and some of the AG done um uh Master plans for other communities so I think Jim asked reading other Master plans I've read five other Master plans now they're this big I've read five other Master plans from two townships that are very similar to ours uh one Township that is dissimilar to ours and a Township that just finished their master plan up in North Jersey where I in a town I used to live in so there's there's a lot of interplay here uh and and the professionals I'm not a professional we you know we locals were're mostly not professionals in this area but that's why we are investing our time we're meeting two three times a week sure with this with the professionals it's a big task it's a huge task it's a big it's a huge task but we're spending the time and the effort to do this on we have to do it right you got one shot at it right I mean this is this is your 10 year shot so we're not doing it blind and we have very good advice from these professionals so it's been it's been a real eye opener I think for the rest of the uh board and for me last question last question so why was R3 zoning originally introduced into the into the U Township what was the function of that and and purpose of it I don't have the history of that um with that being said that how about an idea what it means just I don't know I don't know that's what I'm asking it's not yeah I'm trying to understand it right now so so I couple things just so you get the the correct answer with that correct right if you direct me to the right probably something that you had to live through right which Mr Bry is smileing in the background so uh you want to contact Ernie Peters all right he is the actually I've been I've been in touch with Ernie already I we haven't spoke yet but we've been voicemailed each other's from RVE and he's actually the author of this document right so so he he would have the factual histories exactly why that transpired okay um he's he's the planning board um planner and he's I believe he's also the township planner okay to me I would assume that prevent overgrowth environmental balance I mean probably it probably had something to do with uh because I mean don't forget there there's there's multiple layers to to residential zones so sometimes townships go all the way from like R1 to r10 right absolutely so um for them to expand one type one segment of it meant that there had to be some kind of demand for certain aspect that was contained within it litigation litigation draw a great deal of that document and then litigation to create fre zoning you're saying litigation possibly okay I'm trying to understand that's why I'm TR not that section okay but that document that you no I understand listen I I'm I'm well versed on the on the whole history of this situation we have a lot of overlay zones here we have areas that have one zoning but then there's an overlay Zone on top well that overlay recently was result of litigation ex exactly exactly and and so so I know Mr Bry will will uh come up come up if you want to have a conversation with Mr Bry after I he can tell you he's he's forgotten more than most of us know here's my concern here's my concern so when someone moves into a town a neighborhood and I apologize for the the Reverb they look at a lot of aspects of that town and neighborhood correct I'm I'm assuming that schools quality of life you know spacing of homes size of homes all reflects their decision and so let's take it for instance as myself I moved on a County Road okay I moved with an open piece of woods across the street from my house when I moved into that house I took inherent risks I took two of them right I took the risk that eventually that road would have more traffic on it and I took the risk that a development would eventually be built across street from my house and if that happened I really have no complaint about that that would be like me moving next to the turnp Pike and then they wanted to widen the turnpike and 10 10 more feet of my property and I try to complain about that I have no leg to stand on I have neighbors that are in culto saacs and Dead End streets they took no inherent risk they were uh protected under R3 zoning the neighborhood was fully developed the size of the homes are relative to their income and they're relative to each other and I believe that they build homes relative in size in a neighborhood so that people don't feel unwelcomed or or outnumber you outnumbered but financially Ina to the person with with a bigger house in that development so when they buy that they're under the presumption that they're protected by the township open partials of land for a zoning overlay I can understand that there's a potential for a variance there's a potential for a change here's here I get where you're going with this but here's the problem the problem is that the township doesn't have the legal right to supersede the municipal Lane law so so what happens is that um technically in in any Zone any Zone can be rezone now what happens is that your use in that zone that approval doesn't go away that just becomes a a you know pre-existing non-conforming use at that point so your use stays um and and I listen I I bump into my private practice I bump into this situation all the time in residential goes to commercial commercial goes to residential residential goes to uh multi-use multiuse goes to Industrial it happens all the time all over the state right so for neighborhoods that are existing that are fully developed so so all the time um and what happens is that the nature of the area sometimes just changes over time right it's actually a ton of case law on this right and uh what happens is that because of the nature uh let's say over the course of 20 30 years the the the nature of the neighborhood changes um and and I'm not talking about anything religious I'm not talking about anything I'm talking about it could go from residential to small business or small business to Industrial I mean all it takes is sometimes five use variances to for the nature of a neighborhood to change entirely and then and then 10 years after that when they look at a master plan you look at it and sometimes say Hey listen the entire nature of the neighborhood has now radically changed does it make more sense to have it this way as opposed to that way and then your use would just become a a preexisting you know non-conforming use so it's that happens all the time and and townships have actually tried to do what you're saying and they've actually uh gotten kicked in the teeth by the state because they can't supersede the municipal land use law um and and that's kind of it it's a nature of the Beast and okay well I understand and I appreciate the response yeah you know I'm happy to have you speak as long as you'd like no I'm not looking to be up here a long time we have a meeting following this so i' just like to know how many other people would like to address I'm done I appreciate your time and have a great evening thank you thank you anybody else all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do I'm Michelle warry 751 heis Road Jackson a County Road how do you spell your last name wh h a r y and it is a County Road gotcha I'll just start with that um are these ideas on the um idea wall public to all to see okay um and do you know how many are actually attending these virtual meetings so that oh it depends there were I think last time there were 50 something okay um I'm not sure about this evening so far but as as was pointed out there's a big game today so one never knows however people you can watch this at any time it you can just go on the township website and pull it up and watch the recording of it so it's not like this is a one shot deal it's it's up there for you to see at another time at your convenience well as uh Mr Archer prior to me mentioned um there are approximately 12 residents in the room now and up to 70,000 residents in town it's a pretty crazy ratio um for something so you know uh extensively important um private utility effects with the whole um utility Service uh aspect I'm completely private I have a well I have septic and I have a furnace underground oil tank how are all those utilities going to be affected by utility portion of this so again we not it's we going to St your Municipal Utility Authority does have a ratio of how many are on private and how many is public what this element is going to do is going to study that how is it working is there you know Municipal Utility Authority would be the best judge to tell us you know how much they plann for the future how much they I'm sorry they have no control over me yeah they they're not looking to control or anything uh what I'm saying is they will just have a record of what's private and how much is public they are going to provide whether how their Wastewater needs for the future because they also have to prepare their own plan you know be it a 5year plan be it a 10-year plan they are also Utility Authority they are also professionals who have to kind of Envision they have to know whether how that's serving the town or not serving the town uh there is also a state uh area called the Su service area where the state has decided you know how much of Jackson should be in public sewer area and uh again depending on what the uh whether it's adequate whether in future they're looking to increase it whether there would be any potential of increasing the sewer service area all that would have to be studied and the doc document will just make recommendations whether that goes into play because there are lot of other public agencies that have to come into interplay whether whenever it comes to you have the Ocean County Utility authorities that have to come into the picture there's the um Municipal Utility Authority the state DP which is the one who regulates the sewer service area has to come into play If Ever an extension is proposed again the the element is going to study what exists what is coming for the future whether it's adequate whether there is a need to look at the infrastructure expansion and that would be the recommendations of the element I'm just wonder of the impact private you know private service one of the one of the Imp PS and this board frequently looks at the um homes in an area where something is proposed to be built and how many people in that area are on uh septic for instance Wells and septics that we we are concerned about that all the time there are uh those in the township uh who would like to see expansion of water and sewer areas because that uh has a direct effect on growth of businesses for instance um and those are rables and those are things that people are looking to have come into the town uh entertainment restaurants um uh entertainment facilities those things cannot be built many of them unless there is City Water City suit systems so everyone is affected by these things uh and we we understand that but that's part of what we're planning about that's why we're looking and we know that a large number of people here are onwell and septic and we keep that in mind all the time when we're uh and people like you are coming and saying how is this going to affect my well how is this going to affect my septic system so that's part of our planning Eisen Road I believe has a drainage issue uh especially with you know some of the recent building heon Road has a drainage issue I believe you guys should lots of roads have drainage issues um that's number six number seven how do you spell heis Ro um how are the changes in the land use and Zoning use uh you mentioned that they're going to be looking at making changes to a lot of the laws or the whatever's on the books for land use and Zoning use so are you saying that have there been any State Law changes or I guess how are we going to be notified of it you know do we have impact you know any kind of impact on it so sorry if I can um so as part of that like we said this is just the first step once we do this study there are recommendation made again per the land use law we are the board the planning board Al together not just the committee has to have a public hearing and in that public hearing whatever recommendations are to be made are discussed before the public so you will be notified the master plan is a recommendation documents it's not instantly going to change if there is changing of zoning districts recommended the master plan is almost making an a a recommendation list for the Town Council uh ordinance adoption ordinance uh uh um making it into a law is all part of the governing body the governing body once gets the master plan from from the planning board then it can choose to whether to implement the recommendations that are made in the master plan or not if they choose to implement the recommendations which is what we are hoping to achieve in the master plan it will have to go through its own requirement there have to be two readings it has to be public notice it will be sent back to the planning board to see if it complies with what the master plan is it consistent with the master plan that they adopted and then go ahead and become an ordinance and followed by the law that that's what would happen so the master plan would just make the recommendations thank you uh last thought is I see it every 25 years the change maybe not as freaking as 20 but certainly 25 so let's get ready for 2045 next um I'm tired of hearing climate change because I have no idea why that's a big thing and lastly I think some of the uh what the the usage of the area from you say partially commercial to from residents to partial commercial um has already happened with some of the businesses and people that do businesses that are living in the neighborhoods now thank you thank you very much and who are you thank you Mr President please raise your right hand you swear or confirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please say your name spell your last of the record J Bry 462 Diamond Road you sure know how to spell that Laur the one question about the r3s I'm not speaking as an expert or anything else just by memory which could be weak after 40 years on land Sports the r3s were originally put in to keep the rural nature of the town and stuff like that we could not do like Mount Laurel and be you know create a CO act or they created with affordable housing um the one thing I did want to come up on is the Municipal Utilities Authority uh on the 208 system that you're referring to that's a complex issue it goes from the township the planning board Council to the local mua they got to take it to the county they cannot present it to the state and the county has to present it to the state it's very complex one of the most complex things they had a little master plan at 208 is complex I have a concern that should be addressed though but we've had an application in front of the planning board a while back where a applicant who was capable of hooking up to water sewer service was denied because of capacity limits so I think that has to be addressed besides a to8 why are we having capacity limits is it at the county ocua or that the MUA that has to be addressed if that's going to keep occurring and the R3 that why were kept in the last master plan some we reduced all the r3s were not in the sewer service plan and because of nitrates in the ground we decided to keep them r3s that was the last master plan so some were converted to r2s and had Sewer Service to them the rest remained r3s the other thing I think the public has to recognize and I'm I'm speaking not as a planing M as a resident and this committee for the master plan is doing their job diligently and I can say that because I've watched it for 40 years but they have to understand no matter what you do on a master plan a certain percentage of that gets changed at the zoning board so if you have a perfect master plan maybe 20 25% will change at the zoning board and people have to realize that's where it's very important that the zoning board has more capabilities of demanding stuff that the planning board does not have I think that could be explained and another issue gentleman brought up Road I'm not going to argue with that I agree with him totally nobody can say enough about the roads but he brought up something very important parking I'm not mentioning towns but other towns in the area have had problems with the roadways and if you look at their history on all their approvals and their parking wasn't required or enforced when you don't enforce parking or allow for enough parking demanded example you have to do affordable housing project who knows you might go to duplexes I have no idea if you do that you're going to have to increase the parking requirements that you can but you have the rsis to contend with so which overrules that's that's the other issue that had to be looked at with the parking I definitely agree with that and as far as common sense there's a lot we would all like to do but the one thing I would disagree the gentleman with don't let the courts rule they don't rule on Common Sense they take the letter of the law and that's it and they wipe out the common sense and the other thing when we get sued by applicants for turning them down and we have an applicant say well we'll give you 25 foot of extra buffer we'll give an extra entrance here we'll do that and you turn them down when they get to the appeal at the courts all that stuff they were going to do extra goes away and the court looks at their original application and I think the public has to know that too thank you thank you Mr President anyone else would like to speak so we can put things on the record and if you're not interested in speaking we are more than happy to hear from you uh on the website there has been some comment about the website uh limiting uh what can be said we believe in a philosophy of an economy of words lengthy lengthy postings are are not uh of use to us we're interested in specific streets specific neighborhoods specific intersections and that can be done in a very short post if you'd like to post five times that's fine but they should be specific not General generalizations we can all make but we're looking for your specific input so that we can place those specifics within our documents anyone else would like to speak Jim you're sworn yeah we already swore you so I listened to Mr Bry and he he reminded me of some other roadways that kind of clicked and the reason it clicked with me is he made reference to parking and you know earlier this year the Town Council uh introduced an ordinance for 100 Park Li right and they also brought out the state statute of State Statute I think it's 39 or 34 I forget which number it is um and I looked at it and I said wow if I go by this parking statue the parking in front of my house disappears because I basically go up I'm up against the tea you're three houses in I'm three houses in but I'm on a that's right you're against the tea I'm a te so I I lose all my parking they've introduced the ordinance obviously no they have not Chang no nobody's enforcing it now because I can look out my window on a weekend and see in my road alone probably 10 violations if I drive through my my my development I probably see upwards of 30 uh I beg to differ I I believe they are enforcing uh maybe not on your street but there is is there is enforcement I can only tell and often times it may be based on the particular amount of traffic that that that that streets those streets may have or the width of the roads on those streets and if there were parking on both sides of the roads and within 50 feet of the end so there's more there's more to it than your neighborhood also also your point so uh you may want to reach out to the specific traffic department within the U within the police department um that is designed for that so you want to contact officer hemba to me it's their role to do it theyve they've created your but I'm just saying if if you that may be one Avenue to put them on notice and say Hey listen this is a bad area you know I've actually thought about you know let me get a ticket and take it to court and see if the ordinance that was put in is truly a legitimate ordinance or not so um for a specific roadway kind of you're talking about parking on both sides of the road road being too narrow if you take a ride down Neil Street on a weekend okay Neil NE a l NE it's off of Susan Drive if you go down Susan Drive make right and it's a curve and they are parked on both sides of the road and people have to go down the middle well the problem with that is if you're coming one way you can't see the other person coming the other way you get people okay who's going to move and then you got to back up so there there's roads like that and there's roads all throughout developments not you know farfield I'll say Fez and run but nobody probably know understands Fez and run because it's a part of farfield uh but the brookwoods are the same way they're all narrow they're all old developments as you said 1974 it was the brookwoods I my parents lived in you know we lived in Brooklyn New York and the The Daily News I still have it you know Brookwood one come live in a community 19 well we moved in 74 so um I still have what they looked at and they ended up not buying air they found the house in harfield and that's where we are but there there are roads and the parking the parking is is getting very crazy in this town so the other thing that I want to bring up and I've brought it up before as we develop future developments especially the warehouse type things or you know I use the schools on or another issue is having a oneway or one road access into multiple area multiple items that you know businesses or schools it's just dangerous you know you look at you know what what's one of the latest schools that we built in this town and and to that point so what happens with that is that that that has to be a creature of ordinance so unless the ordinance I get it yeah I I just just to be I brought it up to the Town Council and the mayor was there and he looked at me and he agreed but you know we'll see what if you know I look at I started looking at some of the schools that are in the town and said well you know by mean you have two grade schools you have Crawford and Johnson can't remember the school I went to uh and you know you can get into it from Marson road but you can also go through Camp Joy and come up around so there's multiple elm's elementary school it's a one way but it's at least a hundred yards different so if there's an accident one and you can always get everybody out the other so I think that needs to be taken into account when we're when we're taking these applications you know for multiple schools where we're going to put in warehouses and all they want is a single entrance in and out you know if you have aund you know 250 square foot Warehouse how many employees are going to be in there at any one time well if that road for some reason is incapacitated how you know how do we get these people out so I think we need to really look at and and I don't mean housing developments if you want to build a one road and have houses on both sides I get that they they exist I know we're we're creating a new one over on on Brewer's Bridge so I get that but those are the types of things when you're looking at from a traffic standpoint those are the things that I think really need to be fully vetted and make sure we do it properly thank you as Gman stated about one way in and out this board's done a pretty good job at really confining that but for everybody's edification years ago there's one person in room that might remember it Mr CLE there was something we put in effect with the length of a cold is act or way how much it could be to restrict that from happening and that's been overruled by rsis and everything else so that's something that to look at again we did have in place I don't know how many years ago but a long time ago uh and it is a very good concern and this planning board's addressed that so many times with widening it back way in or something like that we just wanted to up thank you last I have Ace evening thank you very for taking time to have a good one e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e unit States ofice all right everybody Welcome to the June 3 Jackson Township planning board meeting uh this meeting is being uh convened in accordance with the open public meetings Act of New Jersey and all adequate notice has been provided in all the appr proper forums Madam chairman Mr Brey Mr Bernstein Mr heler here Mr rker Miss Rose here Mr marzo here Mr chmer Mr wall here Mr Sullivan here Dr Campbell and uh approval of the minutes for May 20th please roll call oh motion for motion Bernstein Mr Brey yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr yes Mr marzo yes Mr Tremor yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Kim yes uh engineering and planning matters gentlemen thank you uh legal matters not at this time resolution resolution 22421 Okay resolution of the planning board of the township of of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final site plan approval with design waivers for private girls secondary school for shalva high school Inc block 230001 lot 15 eligible to vote are Mr brei Mr Bernstein Mr heler Miss Rose Mr marzo Mr chmer Mr wall Mr Sullivan and Dr Camp motion please motion Bernstein second resolution 20 2422 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major site plan approval a an amendment for technical revisions to the drainage system for how realy Associates LLC block 7403 Lot 2 eligible to vote are Mr bre Mr Bernstein Mr hel Mr marzo Mr Tremor Mr wall and Dr Campbell motion please motion Bernstein second hel and resolution 2024 d23 resolution we have to vote we have to vote we didn't vote on the first do you want to vote on the first one yeah okay so for 202 24 21 we we voted on that one I think we vote on 22 we didn't didn't we didn't vote okay let's vote on them one at a time 2021 okay so 21 Mr brei yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes M Rose yes Mr marzo yes Mr chmer yes Mr wall Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes okay for 20 24-22 Mr Brey Mr Burns yes yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes Mr marzo yes Mr Tremor yes Mr wall Dr Campbell yes okay so for 20 2423 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major site plan approval with design waivers for the construction of a warehouse and office for far Avenue property LLC block 22009 Lots 1 2 3 4 5 and 6 eligible to vote are Mr Brey Mr Bernstein Mr heler M demaro Mr Tremor Mr Sullivan and Dr Camp accept a motion please motion Bernstein second Bernstein okay Mr Brey yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes Mr dearo yes Mr chmer no Mr Sullivan yes Dr C yes and we'll go back to uh vote on the payment for a voucher for recording secretary I'll accept a motion so move second have a roll call please we don't need a roll call you just need an I just uh all in favor I thank you okay good try changes in schedule uh block 6501 Lot 4 2.02 my address LLC carry from June 17 2024 to September 9th uh 2024 with notice required motion to move second all in favor I master plan report please good evening from 5:00 pm to 6:15 p.m. this evening the master plan subcommittee held a public hearing to discuss the circulation plan and utility service plan elements for the master plan the subcommittee strongly encourages our residents to put ideas and suggestions on the ideas wall the subcommittee is also seeking information on any are areas or roads you that you believe need attention this next subcommittee public hearing will be held on June 17th at 5:00 pm thank you thank you all right um first uh application is block 101 lot 3 ecd New York Inc no no not yet it's not on that always gives us problems bottom yeah is this better all right good evening for the record my name is Lisa John bosta with the law firm K shahinian and Jan tamasi on behalf of the applicant the application that's before you this evening is for Ping final site plan approval in order for the applicant ecd NYC Inc to construct a contractors's office garage warehouse and Shop on property located at 21 Allison Road designated as block 101 lot 3 on the tax maps the site is proposed to be owner occupied with the applicant's business ecd is the largest Foundation contractor in the New York City metropolitan area area presently based out of New York ecd purchased the subject property with the intention of expanding its physical footprint the application that's before you this evening is fully conforming uh except for parking variants that was identified in your professionals reports and a few minor design waivers to discuss the E to discuss the application this evening we intend to call one or two possible Witnesses just SE Walt who's going to be testifying in the capacity as civil engineer as well as professional planner we also have Corey Chas our traffic engineer who's also available to testify if the board has any questions so if it's okay with Madam chair I ask that our first witness be sworn in uh first we're going to hear some testimony from our professionals sure um uh thank you Mr Shay um can um summarize the application um nicely uh 57,000 foot mixed use um um building 52 um 2,000 is warehouse and 4,800 ft is um office space um the project is compliant um um my most my concerns I think the applicant need to address is the parking variants that um uh was mentioned also confirmation of the bulk standards there's outdoor bulk standards um that are proposed with this um site so it's some testimony regarding compliance with those um those standards um the road improvements to the um adjacent roadway system curban sidewalks are required um and we have have some um curb at the driveway connection to Allison um and lastly um I think there's been might have been some environmental issues on this application I see um the um restored Wetland areas that kind of tells me that it might have been filled and they're working with d to um get that violation if there was a violation issue so just some testimony as far as the environmental concerns that's all for now thank you Mr Peters thank you madam chair our office has a report dated May 29th of this year properties in the HC Zone where contractor's office showroom garage warehouse and Shop or permitted juices provided all materials and Equipment are stored completely within an enclosed building um we'd like to hear some testimony either from the owner the architect someone about what's going on on the site um when we hear Jackson planning board think of contractor Office Buildings we think of 20,000 ft buildings broken up into 2,00 foot units and there's 10 of them this is a 57,000 foot owner occupied so I think while on paper it meets the requirements of the ordinance and the Zone I think there needs to be some testimony to say what it is and almost more importantly say what it's not going to be that it's not going to be subdivided and used as a warehouse for other tenants um that being said Mr CLE started talking about Alice and Road improvements um doesn't appear to be any we need to get some testimony as to what if any improvements are going to be along the property Frontage of Allison as well as the County Highway and I did note Although our report went out late so I didn't have an opportunity to review it with the applicant's traffic consultant um that they had been in contact with u Municipal professionals regarding other projects in the area and they didn't take into account the project across the street um that was approved in the last um 18 months or so um so we probably need to at least review that but for opening comments that's all I have at this point Thank you thank you thank you and to uh address some of those comments as of this Friday we received an Loi from the from d and also we can affirmatively state that this will not be subdivided and it will only be applicant occupied which is the owner so to steal a little bit of Josh's Thunder there but if we can get him sworn in and then we'll hate on all those points and this that's a condition of approval correct yes all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last of the record certainly Josh sewald s w l d all right and your credentials um Bachelor's of Science and civil engineering as well as a Masters of Science and civil engineering I've testified before over a 100 land use boards and I was here in April a couple of months ago you look familiar thank you very much Mr sh and Josh your license with respect to Civ civil engineering and professional planning are they current yes I ask they be accepted as both welcome to Jackson testifying is both an engineer and a professional planner correct that's correct all right and the board sub secr yes thank you thank you madam chair um just to quickly run through some of the existing conditions identify the site for the board and the public up on the screen before you uh this is our aerial map exhibit part of the Civil drawings that were provided and prep uh prepared for the board this is the satellite image overlaid onto your zoning map as you can see located to plan uh West where we have Mammoth Road that is actually the municipal boundary between your community and Millstone the property is identified in a yellow boundary the dotted yellow line around it is approximately the 200 foot Property Owners list as uh Lisa mentioned the property is at approximately 10 acres in size we have Frontage on the county roadway and to the north of us is Allison Road we are along the HC Highway Corridor um zoning District up and down on the North and South to us as you just heard from your board planner there was a project approved across the street from Allison Road for another uh Warehouse style building to the rear of us is uh another HC zone property that is located to the East and then beyond that is our uh residential neighbors so as you can see from the existing site today there is a residential dwelling located on Allison Road and just some lowline gravel areas of the prior use before the applicant ecd New York decided to purchase the property and that's where they're housing some of their features today so overall again the property has about 10 acres in size Frontage on two roadways there is an existing residential home on there today which is an existing non-conforming condition um and there are wetlands spread throughout the property about 2 and a half acres in size and as you heard a few moments ago from Lisa we do have a valid Loi we literally just received it on uh Friday before the weekend broke yeah if we can give it an exhibit number yeah aerial Mapp certainly um and the next exhibit um it'll be the site plan rendering that A2 that's perfect yeah we can mark that as A2 this is the uh site plan sheet overlaid onto the landscape plan and then colored for presentation purposes same orientation as the exhibit you were just mentioning Allison Road is located to the top of the plan running into the East West Direction Mammoth Road is located to the uh West left side of the plan the orange block will be the 57,000 foot in change contractor uh Warehouse all of the gray areas around it will be asphalt pavement access aisles and parking and everything else that you see on site and the color of of green is either existing trees Wetlands or storm water future stormw management and new Landscaping associated with the project overall as you heard uh from the introductions the the proposed use is a permitted uh use within the Zone that's why we're here before you this evening at the planning board uh what is nice about working on this application is we got to work hand inand with the owner of the property who is also going to be the operator of the property many times I'm presenting before you and other boards it is a speculative development and all those concerns that come along with speculative are things that we have to work through the evening we have operations testimony number of employees hours that we'll be utilizing and because they will be the only applicant inside of this building that's why it's a very custom layout as you see with maybe some other warehouses you see a large truck Court dock doors and some other features this a very custom building so I do not believe it could ever be re subdivided to towards that Flex Warehouse style development that the board has been familiar with the past that's a stipulation yes that the applicant's willing to make correct happy to do so um I have one question your show us that is that again sir thei that you showed us the aerial yes was that when the beginning of 2024 per uh Google aerial maps thank you no problem and one uh stipulation for the the sake of the neighbors uh left turn only out of the facility yes we saw that in the police memo and we're happy to agree with that thank you so overall just to describe the the facility as well as the overall site plan layout we have our uh driveway located on Allison Road as we just stipulated we will restrict to left turn movements out so that all of our traffic will go back out to Mammoth Road you'll see towards the northern side of the building we have 38 parking spaces that is more than enough of what our current current uh applicant owner is looking to provide they will have approximately 20 employees on site they are putting in 38 because they believe of the future success of their building and they're kind of future proofing the facility you do see a large accessway two-way aisle that wraps along the front of the building and then heads towards the uh kind of the outdoor storage and the overall lay down area if you've been to the site or been near there you'll see a few different products associated with the fact that they are a pile company so there's different steel kons and other things necessary to help build foundations underneath of a building in the urban areas those facilities will be brought inside of the building so the axis aisle on the western side that runs parallel with Mammoth Road you'll see two doors there that's so that the tractor trailer or the lowboy can go into the building and bring in material or bring out the new kons that will be going to the job site so a lot of these features will be located inside of the building after they do their work inside of the building there may be some extra storage or time between jobs that they land that those products may be stored outside on that uh pavement area excuse me for how long it depends on the season ma'am as well as the number of jobs that they land you'll see that but not permanent storage outside certainly not permanent storage what so just to be just to be clear I think the The Zone requires that the cont contractor Warehouse that all storage has to be inside that is correct and then there is a separate section that allows outdoor bulk storage so the so the components associated with contractor shop Warehouse everything will be inside of the building as long as it's associated with the yeah Madam chair if if we're going to dive into this let's just let's take it slow let's read the ordinance let make sure they stay at the planning board yeah okay the use section of the ordinance chapter 24457 A10 it's on page four of our report is what the permitted juices are so this is a permitted juice provided that all materials and Equipment are stored within a completely enclosed building period next paragraph 24457 B1 bulk storage is a permitted accessory use they're either going to need to prove to us that they have a permitted principal use or this use isn't permitted in this Zone it's not for the board to figure out it's clear the applicant needs to make that case to you to show they're complying with the ordinance the we're going to do it a little bit it's unenforceable okay anyone who's sitting here has been in Jackson Township and looked at a construction site it's unenforceable and worse if they ever sell a property the next group of people has don't know nothing about it so let's just make sure we're clear as to what we're being asked to approve and make sure you guys agree to what it is that they're asking for I don't take exception to what they're asking for I just don't know if it fits the ordinance black and white comments yet thank you certainly and typically when you see bulk products you don't see a paved parking lot with landscape islands and then you don't have uh full concrete curbing around it you typically have just an open gravel lot and kind of a endless use of the parcel and then you have various different tenants that are doing different businesses we are here to testify and condition potentially any approval on what this applicant and operator needs because they are not leasing this building out they have no intention on selling it they purchased this thing this will be location number two in their company this is a very important strategic site for them we can go through the materials that they utilize but their equipment any fabrication of their materials everything will be done inside of this building that's why we were confident in working with the team the attorney and the traffic engineer to ensure that anything that will be outside will comply with your bulk storage standards again if you've been to the site you will see that there are those circular drum looking items those are essentially kons or pile type facilities that go into the ground underneath the building that is what will be outside all the other vehicles and material that need to be a part of this process will be inside the building again their facility in Congress is a fourth of the size the reason that they are looking to do this and submitted the application is because they are getting a 50,000 foot building that they can house everything inside additionally and final testimony about this to address some of the concerns this building is drive-thru capable the trucks come in off the western side they go through the facility and they exit towards the Eastern side that's to ensure that those larger build those larger trucks and Equipment that's on it will be stored inside overnight of that building the other areas is for maneuverability and lay down of bulk stores not bulk product they don't have gravel yards or dirt piles it is truly so that their pieces of metal can be laid down and then be switched in and out and then stored inside the building when it's done happy to answer any other further questions or comments associated with this I think you've covered most of it but to be clear to talk more about the operational aspects of it this is a three-story building and and there's an office component to it as well is that correct correct the the contractor shop is one story and then the office component is three stories so essentially two mezzanines on top of the ground floor that will house the administrative offices the bathrooms and the other executive spaces for the employees inside and any raw materials the the steel that they're using uh Etc that's that's enclosed within the building itself and any equipment that's necessary to put things together for for their for their jobs and for their products that's all occurring within the building itself is that correct that is correct uh as far as the outside of the building and the outdoor storage uh there are conditions related to the accessory use and would the applicant be able to satisfy those conditions that forth within the code yes okay and um just to talk about the outside what is going to be occurring outside there's going to be business vehicles that are going to be parked in the rear of the property is that correct that is correct and I think you covered this already but what if anything as far as what if anything else besides the business Vehicles would be outside of the building at any given point it it's really the we'll call it the uh steel forms that are being transferred between jobs or that were custom sized for the project so again if if you've been to the site at all it just looks like a steel drum that will be stored outside but that is the only component that will be outside the reason for the uh pavement area is for maneuverability of that large vehicle and the equipment that needs to come in and out of the building how how many uh Vehicles will be parked outside great question so we will have 20 employees on site they will park in the 38 uh space parking lot and then we have approximately six tractor trailers that will come in and out at Peak time some days will only be one or two but on a busy season during construction you're looking at six tractor trailers coming in and out of the facility are there any parked there overnight if they are they will be inside of the building okay that was what we were looking for the parking uh situation uh do you have an architect who's going to testify tonight uh but I will be essentially your architect to discuss the materials of the building we provided a few renderings and Exhibits that are uh with the board right now we didn't get any renderings or we will introduce them as a exhibits tonight be nice to get them in advance so we could look at them understood I think hopefully you'll be pleased with them when you you take a look I'm concerned about the Neighbors being pleased with them and the people who have to pull in and out of that street every day being pleased with them so those are architectural renderings that you going to be submitting into the record yes okay um but you don't have an architect we don't it's it's out a state architect from Georgia so um we can Josh or you know the Jos Josh really can't because he's he's a professional engineer professional uh planner understood so either Josh or the applicant can testify as a fact witness as to the proposed materials of the building if necessary sure purely from a a planning standpoint you'll see shortly it is a concrete box building and you'll see the floor plan associated with it with windows at the office location from a planning standpoint we believe that it complies with all of your code sections of of a building if there are any specific questions we we're happy to answer them were there um uh signage issues at all did we have any signage issues the applicant is not submitted for any signage and it's because they are not a retail type use they are a business that does not need to be identified and they honestly don't wish to be identified they want to be behind people will know where they're going yes ma'am that's good fine thank you we can flip to the architectural rendering unless no that's fine let's roll with the with the board's comments um there there should be on that USB drive a couple of architectural exhibits uh I would do one it has all of them on exhibit one I'm sorry maybe the second one there we go thank youtify so these are various 3D perspectives of the building uh you'll see it matches the exact shape and size located on the site plan exhibits that you just saw at the corner you'll have various window treatments associated with the office building as I mentioned it is a three-story mezzanine and then the rest of the building will be associated with that contractor uh storage Warehouse it is going to be a concrete wall building like this board is certainly familiar with most likely pre-cast are tilt up there will be HVAC units located on top of the roof and there will be the two doors located on the front and the rear and that again is so that the operation could drive their trucks through the facility a very custom building for a unique tenant and operator has there been any consideration given to solar I knew that question was coming Madam chair the the applicant would like to condition and say that yes we would be happy to do solar assuming the local electric purveyor will be willing to accept the solar that will be coming into it so I know the state passed an ordinance that said 100,000 sare feet or more you have to have it they're certainly looking into it from just a good clean energy and and a cost savings honestly but sometimes the local infrastructure can't accept it and they uh hold back how much solar they can do so what we be happen to say is yes we'll condition it on how much the local electric provider can put on the building thank you certainly and JH the orientation of the glass transparency that's towards the Allison Road Frontage yes and towards the driveway so Allison wrote as well as Mammoth wrote there appears there will be plenty of screening however I I believe and if you want to flip back to exhibit A2 that there is adequate screening uh if you drive past the site you really can't see into it I was there today so it's pretty deep it is and we're not modifying any of those areas if anything we're adding Landscaping um if the board professionals have any future wer concerns we can certainly talk about that but you'll see some of the lighter colors are all the new trees that are coming in uh we're not expanding any further into the wetlands of course we have to leave that alone um and we are removing the the residential dwelling that is also on Allison so overall I would say that is almost a shrink in development but we are modernizing storware management on-site utilities pavement lighting parking Landscaping it'll look like a brand new facility I think it's green pretty well because our neighbors across Allison is going to be a commercial development and to then to the South is Highway commercial the only residential Zone which you can see in the Southeast Corner that's where the zone line is that is significantly buffered by existing trees and wetlands that will be uh preserved based on the wetlands Loi that we obtained I I think the consideration is the um roadway that the residents will be traveling down um will we'll have plenty of buffering I I believe so you you'll see a little bit bit at the corner just for at the intersection of Alice and aam you will be able to see down the driveway of course for line of sight but all the other frontages will have existing vegetation or new vegetation Mr um so there is not full circulation around that back corner of the building you can get to all sides of the building it just doesn't connect couple reasons so so the truck has access to all four sides just the road doesn't connect and that's okay because the tractor trailers we have on site have worse articulating movements than the firet TRU so I know that the biggest vehicle on site can maneuver here the firet truck will have even better access along all three sides it's not always about maneuverability it's about positioning and strategic attack but has the fire department even looked at the approved plans they have and they've given a review letter with a couple comments that we'd be happy to comply with every one of okay because I don't have it so I didn't get to see issued back in January but we can comply with all theend yeah because I mean what we've been doing lately is you have to give us 360 degree access for safety reasons you know some have been doing pavers or or whatever whatever type of surface that can support a a vehicle you can't pick and choose where an emergency is going to happen so we we can shift the trees a little bit um part of the history of the property is that there was before my client owned it the prior owner did some illegal filling of wetlands so part of this Redevelopment project we were waiting for that they wouldn't they wouldn't never um part of this Redevelopment was first going to the DP and working out mitigation and restoration which is associated with this so it's a unique internal Development Area and that's because of the wetlands first I'm confident in saying that although we don't have full circulation around that your firet Tru apparatus can gain access to all sides of the building and every request that they made we we will comply with um there there's enough clearance to for a firefighter to be able to run around the building I just don't know if I have enough clearance near the wetlands to run a grassp drive AIS okay but I'm I'm confident with the review letter we received from from the fire department that we can satisfy with the plan that's currently shown on the board listen I'm all for keeping every tree that we can I I hate that they clear cut you know if we have to make an adjustment we will to to compromise but access is important absolutely okay thank you and how tall is this building because I'm thinking of fire trucks and accessibility it's a three-story building say that second part I was just looking up the exact build conforms of the 35 ft um just point up the elevation apparatus could reach that President apparatus is good then thank you no problem so the applicants willing to comply with all Fire official recommendations absolutely few other items that we didn't touch on do you want to touch on lighting briefly uh certainly so we have uh 30 footall mounted light poles through rout the property I believe one of the comment from your professionals that the uh illumination was a little light at the intersection the thought of that seeking the design waiver was because it was a residential street that went to the back but if there was a request from the board we can certainly illuminate a little bit more whatever the board would prefer what are your operating hours sure um that may affect lighting as that was my point uh our lighting is generally on about an hour before and on an hour after we close and our hours of operation are Monday to Friday 5:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Saturday occasionally depending on the season from 7:00 a.m. to 2: p.m Sunday we're we're never so there are no evening hours no expectation to have e that may be a help thank you no ma'am Josh do you want to discuss you said maximum of 20 employees that's both within the warehouse and within the office building itself that's correct so the parking that we're proposing I think it was around 38 parking spaces for for regular vehicles that would be be sufficient to satisfy the needs of the operation itself very much so almost double for what the actual operator and client needs and I'm sure traffic is a concern in for the township can you discuss how the business Vehicles when they would approximately be leaving and returning to the site and how many that would be certainly one of the nice parts of of this specific use and and application is that we're working with the operator and owner directly so as you heard it's 20 people Max coming into the site with only six trucks coming in and out a day so they'll be doing their work during the oper hours of operation that I just testified to so it's not like there's a double dip of traffic people come to the site to work in the warehouse or in the office will use their vehicle the other ones using their trucks will take the truck out of the warehouse go to the job site and then come back and pick up their car and leave so yes the Extra Spaces are for future puing and hopefully more success within uh the community and that's why we're providing an additional 18 more spaces and the truck what we're looking at here is not just your uh use at this time but we have to constantly consider the future one never knows so we want to make certain that there's enough parking for the building itself no matter what the use may be in the future so great question it'll be on my closing as the planner for the evening how the only variants I believe that we have and it might even be a design waiver I'll defer to your professionals on which one they want to choose um based on separating out office square footage and Warehouse square footage there should be approximately 59 parking spaces the applicant as you heard be testimony through they only need 20 we're showing 38 should a future tenant come in and they decide to sell there is plenty of asphalt pavement around this building that you can stripe out and then get compliant with the parking that Jackson needs again it is my professional testimony that I does not need the double dip of office and warehouse but to Future proove it you certainly have the land and you'll hear later with better planning Alternatives in the C2 variants that less impervious coverage is a good thing for a property so overall you have the room to expand to get up to 59 that will not increase any more development coverage on the site and then overall this specific user who we're conditioning the site plan on will only need the 38 spaces so do we consider that banking at or can we at this stage so the stormw management is already designed to accommodate the total development could you have an alternative Phase 2 plan that the board professionals will be satisfied with to show the Extra Spaces I'd be happy to do that only with a potential condition that that's not how the operator is going to use the site currently that sounds like a plan thank you madam chair any questions from the board um as far as the delivery schedule goes is that going to be consistent with the 5:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. or are you planning on having having later deliveries no so any operation on the site will stay within the hours of operation when I say 5 a.m. that's when the first employee comes to the site that that tractor trailer is not leaving at 501 they have to load it up they have to put things on it but it could be 530 545 and then what type of um trucks will you have there two types either a tractor trailer or a low boy that's the one that sits really low on the ground so equipment can get on top of it it's the same length and articulating movement but it's large enough to be able to get in and out of the building and sometimes you know a smaller box truck whatever they need for the job site but we always design for the largest vehicle and that'll be those big uh tractor trailers Madam chair the board yes just a suggestion um I see board members sort of quizzical about the hours of operation um our ordinance doesn't specifically have an hour of operation standard it does have a noise standard so the hours of operation are is testified hope they'd be good neighbors and they're subject to the noise ordinance absolutely we understand that thank you Mr Peters any other questions from the board Mr Marza sorry just to reiterate so you're going to agree to um the offsite condition that the traffic safety unit proposed which is just the leftand term yes okay and how will you how do you plan on enforcing that uh two- ways my recommendation the radius coming out of the exit driveway will be very shortened and kind of made perpendicular so that if anyone wanted to make the right you'd be really hopping the curb and and messing up your car and also then with adequate on um with a sign that says left turn only as well as a striped uh arrow that says so they have three ways uh to enforce Allison Road anyone else from the board Madam chair um going to Mr Tremor as far as the access around the whole building um the minimum required is 60 you have 110 is there anything to be gained by sliding the building closer to Mammoth Road and be able to get to the back of the building complete completely around we can certainly look at that um what we were trying to honestly do Mr Clay is keep as much of that existing buffer as possible so that you didn't see this contractor Warehouse up on the road uh if it truly was a concern of the board I think I have enough real estate to angle the building kind of rotate it towards the southern property line and then get in uh 15 to 20 foot access aisle but you would already indicated that you'll comply with whatever the fire people would say I did yes Mr CL um the road improvements to Allison and Mammoth so I I drove the site today it looks like you guys just paved Allison Road um I'll be honest what is the request of the board from so Mammoth we we wanted to leave alone just because we're not doing any driveway um I believe we can contribute to the sidewalk fund along Mammoth Road uh from an Allison Road standpoint just to stay on that and not jump around we have a large Frontage that goes to the back of the property and a lot of it is already encumbered by Wetlands so we'd ask for the waiver from anything south uh east of our driveway back to be left alone but anything from our driveway up if the board is looking for curbing we can certainly do that um but anything deficient of course the whole Frontage you pay Into The Pedestrian safety fund we would yes um and if we can just talk a little bit about this out or this bulk storage um and the specific conditions um you're not going to have any bulk storage um in any required front yard and I think that's pretty clear from the from the plan that is correct could we get in the actual area where this bu storage is going to going to occur so what what I think would be what we can do for you as a potential condition of approval basically if you if you take a 50 to 60 foot axis AIS and you wrap it around the building that's all for maneuverability of access Vehicles anything outside of that 60 area has the potential for the the lay down of those bulk products that they need for it so I I can hatch it mystically to show where it can go and then stay out of the axis AIS and and that stacking is not going to exceed 10 feet that is correct in in height height correct um how about the the fencing and screening requirement around the whole thing so we do have fencing on the perimeter um it as a dual Factor there's some low retaining walls due to the grade and a retaining wall that needs a fence for fall protection so instead of doing your typical 4ot chain link that you would see on top of raining wall you could do a six- foot whatever the board prefers um Stockade versus vinyl the applicants happy to do either or um and I do believe that we meet buffering if if you disagree I have the real estate to add even more Landscaping but there are brand new Trees and Landscaping around the areas that don't have existing vegetation and then we left as much existing vegetation as possible the the good news again is that that resid Cal Zone really is only on that Southeast corner and you have a couple hundred feet of wetlands and trees all of our neighbors to the North and the South are in that HC Zone and and the last last question again at the bulk storage area I'll say to the rear of the building um I'm looking at the curbing um to the rear and I'm guessing it might be 10t off the property line and I'm also seeing a 25t side yard setb back line why not put the curb on the side yard setb back line to make sure that you don't have any um store bulk storage encroaching into that side yard area it's a good recommendation we can certainly do that honestly it was just for maneuverability um the type of product go ahead sir I can see that if it's not really defined then well you know store to the curb well this curb should be 25 ft in if you did that then you meet the setback oh let me be clear now I understand the concern of you on the board the material if if you've been to the site the the thing that they're storing is very large and heavy they need access to both sides of it so my apologies they need that extra area along the curb so that they can get a piece of equipment either behind it or in front of it this is not a small feature that they're pushing to the back and then we'll be pulling forward they need access on both sides which is why we were confident in saying that we can comply because the the bulk setback line there's a lot of space between my building and that area but I I get your concern if we just move in the curb line a little bit then there won't be any potential uh violation in the future to go to the back but if you do need access to um to both ends and I understand that um maybe a striping type you know plan where where is bulk storage and what's used for circulation we can certainly do that absolutely that's oneome for now thank you I have a question Mr CH so you're talking about a low boy and heavy things to move around what exactly are we putting in these again it um they are a specialty contractor that does piles for buildings that that are on top of poor soils so traditionally out in this area where we have decent soils you just you dig a trench you pour concrete and your building goes on top of it right using kons instead exactly so so you're going to be piling up big piles of kons and you're going to have cranes and excavators and everything moving in and out not so much they might have a couple excavators but that's stored in their their conquer location this location is to create rebar cages inside of that queson that will be stored and made inside of this building but sometimes between jobs they'll have those extra kons like are on the property today and that's what's going to be stored in no way will the rebor be stored out everything is going to be inside the building for the ordinance but they just need some lay down area we'll call it in between projects so that those steel kons will be outside so they'll just be brought outside to be loaded on the low boys to be taken out correct but if they need to say build a rebar cage that's going to a specific job they bring it inside the building do whatever they need to do inside put it onto the truck store it overnight and then hit the job in the morning okay but they're not going to be grinding and Welding outside say that again sir I'm sorry they're not going to be grinding a welding outside no everything is inside of the building okay on the second and third floors is what's going to be in these buildings that's just offices so um on our floor plan you'll see bathrooms uh conference room lunch break area it's all for the employees that are working on the shop floor as well as the uh the administrative Executive offices so those 20 employees going to have all three stories of the building to their they'll have access to all three yeah okay maybe it be beneficial it's only a portion of the building that's the three stories where the office is going it's not the entire length of the building okay it's just that small square located at the northern entrance that's the only portion that's three stories all the rest of it is is a clear height Warehouse all right so just real quick so are you guys manufacturing these things on site manufacturing is not the right word assembling is the better word they're not it's not a steel uh smelting plant it essentially rebar comes in on a lowboy goes inside the building and then they create a rebar cage that goes inside of the quesan so a steel worker will tie it together put it inside the quesan and then leaves it's only a portion what's correct there's a the bulk of it is the the storage of the steel itself but sometimes they do have to assemble assemble for a particular job Mr Solomon off uh so we saw that one of those comments at this time there was not an elevator proposed however if any aspect of IBC building requirement needs an elevator the applicant will certainly provide one certainly do you plan on having um clients come there's really no reason for a client to come maybe maybe one person just to see the facility but um it's not a retail type location it's not even like a showroom maybe like a plumbing manufacturer I don't ever need a quan so I don't need to go to this facility so I would say maybe once a year twice a year but never on a regular basis okay so that's why you wouldn't put an elevator in at this point the elevator really is for the request of of just meeting with Ada accessibility not for any U potential customer or client to come into the okay but would are you considering putting the elevator in then I just conditioning on approval that yes okay thank you yes yes they are Mr Peters did you have something apologies um I wanted to make sure as we went through what goes on in the building I understand the applicant's attorney applicants engineer here to express those things that are written down we make sure that we follow what's permitted in a highway commercial Zone this isn't an industrial Zone it's not a manufacturing Zone it's a highway commercial zone so to the extent that we get that testimony to make sure this is a permitted use in the zone and again almost as importantly for enforcement reasons we find out what's not going on so I I think both the applicant and the board are doing a bang up job making sure we get the record straight about what's going to be done in the HC Zone thank you do you have uh a an operations specialist who could present some testimony regarding what's actually going to be happening inside of that building from Soup To Nuts we have a representative of the applicant here this evening if you would like us to call okay all right Mr sh I thought I was doing all right I think you're doing excellent you're doing do doing great any other questions from the board okay sounds good so why don't we just just let's go let's Circle back to the use issue right so just as a planner how do you reconcile Warehouse vers contractor Warehouse so how are you deeming this contractor Warehouse with the end user basically utilizing the entire facility um you know with with this storage facility great great question Mr Shay let me go through civil traffic architecture first and then I'll close on planning this layout that you see before you the building design is not designed as a warehouse there's no formal truck Court there's no trailer storage storage spacing and there's limited amount of dock doors there's only rollup doors so that people can drive in and out of this building a warehouse will have a sunken loading dock so that the back of the truck can bring product in and out of it so I can already tell from a civil engineering standpoint this is not a warehouse facility from an architecture standpoint same thing everything is atg grade and it is laid out to be a contractor office although the showroom is allowed we do not intend on having a showroom because we have no clients coming a garage we'll store our equipment and vehicles warehouse storage of the product that we need to use for the service of our general construction and a shop and that shop is although not defined with paragraphs in my opinion a contractor shop is so that they can assemble what they need to go to the job site to be successful uh this is not a raw materials yard this doesn't house equipment such as gravel or or dirt this essentially is a a contractor's location to put their equipment because you can't take this equipment home into your driveway and it per the Jackson ordinance says it must be inside the building we're testifying that it certainly will be that's why it's over 50,000 square fet and more so it's a contractor shop just like an electrician may be preparing different Junction boxing and conduits this is no different it's just a a bigger type of contractor with bigger equipment and bigger material that needs to go into the ground uh so overall in my opinion we clearly meet the permitted use section of 24457 810 that lists various different components of this specialty use and then it has that condition that materials and equipment must be stored completely within the building and I think we've hammered that home that we certainly will do will do that um the the bulk storage item is also accessorary principle permitted use within the HC Zone and I think through good discussion with the board and your professionals I think with an additional striping plan showing where that can be located to ensure that we comply with those conditions of the accessory use will go a long way and we're happy to make that a condition so again we're always concerned because contractor warehouse location can mean a lot of different things as we drive throughout this town and this County additionally warehouses also come along with their own nuances you take a look at our traffic report this was not mod model to have Warehouse trip generation which I know this board is very intimately familiar with you'll see high trip generation for fulfillment center cold storage Etc this was modeled completely differently so you're hearing from the applicant but it also shows up on the site plan the architectural floor plan and you're conditioning the approval also on the traffic report all saying that this is a specialty Contractor Building to house for this unique tenant should any of those three things that I just mentioned change we'd be required to come back in for amended approval and possibly a different use approval what what is the noise level that would be generated in this type of operation I would say because it's inside of the building typical commercial that you have up and down the HC Zone the other great thing about this site is that our residents are hundreds of feet away from this property due to existing trees and wetlands on the parcel again the main benefit is that we're taking what the applicant has on site and we're bringing it inside of a closed building all right continue then that was the end of that I if you have any civil more civil engineering questions Josh is obviously available to answer them I also want to do put them on in the capacity of a a professional planner uh for the parking waiver as well so if you would like me to do that at this point in time or if you would like to hear from operations first we need parking we've heard what we needed let's go to operations okay just don't go too far because the public will want to ask you a few questions okay we have a representative of the applicant bling Kelly hi good evening swear you in just a second please raise your right hand do you swear affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right and you're testifying in what capacity okay back witness as to operations as to yes as to operations Blain what is your um affiliation with the applicant um senior project manager just next in line to the owner operator been working with them for 11 years now running at the overall company site and the off site and in that you're familiar with the current operations of the company as as well as what's proposed at the subject site is that correct yes that's correct so you've heard a lot from the board this evening questioning exactly what is happening at the site can you run through a typical day and the operations that are occurring um as far as the building itself and then uh the the the truck traffic and what is being proposed on the exterior of the building yes okay so inside the building as you've heard we do a lot of the Deep foundations in um around New York area and various areas for that we've become self-sufficient in um building our own cages so we're not reliant on anybody else we go we get the pieces of Steel we have equipment that we've specialty equipment that we've bought brought to this country and we set it up in our in our area and then we can fabricate these cages and then they go onto the truck that night and then they go to the city the next morning to be used because in city we don't have a lot of New York City sorry um we don't have a lot of space on sites so we do a lot of off-site fabrication so we're efficient when we bring stuff to the site it's efficient it's stacked and it goes right into the job and we service the job every morning the trucks are in and out picking up this material that our shop guys put together and they bring to the site every morning BL you're talking about the assembly but the the larger building itself is 2,000 ft the majority of the area is for the actual storage of the materials that you have as far as this the Steel Etc and that is just a small component of what your operation is is that correct yes that's correct and as far as the exterior of the building um what types of materials or storage would be on the exterior of the building itself so the bulk of the material that we'd be talking about outside as Josh was saying is the casin so the casin come in in um say a 41 foot piece we cut them into a 40 foot piece and we put a thread on one end and a thread on the other end goes straight on the truck and then it heads to the city because it's the pipe when it when we buy the pipe it doesn't have the ends on it so you can connect them together so what we do is we thread the end we thread the other end pick it up and it goes onto our truck to be brought to the city to create the casin and there was a question earlier from Madam chair that this is temporary storage is that correct yeah there'll be of there's quite a lot of turnover like you're basically you're send you can send out a full truck every day which is 40,000 pound 306,000 worth of material going out like and sometimes when we're busy there's two trucks that that c so you very rarely see the same material in the same spot it's possibly replaced and then it's empty as as required we don't have huge storage ahead of what we need because we can get the raw materials from people in Pennsylvania Etc and we just go we we pick it up we bring it to our shop we get it prepared and then we send it straight to the job sites the word I I was concerned about hearing at the beginning was the bulk of what you're storing that's the only thing you'll be storing yeah well I'm saying some is rebar inside you have rebar you have steel beams and you steel plates but outside will only be the casing casings casings because I can't put rebar or I can't put structural steel outside if it rusts it's no good exactly any questions from the board Mr Sullivan in fabrication all we're doing is we're getting the pieces and putting them together into like the lens that we need so as in fabrication that's I it's hard to Define what you you're not making anything no we're not creating a new product for anything else we're just putting those products together so the supp put exactly yeah yeah we shape them to how they need to be if we get a beam that's 60 foot long we make it 55 foot long because that's what's required on the site and it cut and it goes straight to the site like that no no no Mr brazzy I just want to definitely get this I to words faca and difference between fabricating assembly I just that up I think that has to cored it's not fabricating assembly it's assembly of raw materials together very important yes agreed it's just assembly of materials no fabrication whatsoever so you're not welding you're not smelting let's just no welding there will be partial welding needed there will be pressure welding no some partial W required if we have a piece of Steel that needs um a plate put onto the end of it a beam that needs a plate put onto the end of it to fit into the project we will weld we will have a weld like that will be welded on to to be prepared to go to the city okay and what what percentage of the process is that is that like 2% of the overall assembly is that what is that welding itself welding itself 5% maybe okay yeah it's only the pr the prep of the ends basically of what's in there all right and what about Metal working there's no shaping of the metal there's no heating it up and then no there's no presses or the thing like that you just cut it to the size you need it to be and then you you weld it on all right so you you're going to be cutting the metal then yes in the facility okay all right then what else anything else about the process that you want to tell us about no this is really what we do in our other smaller shops but our other shop is like 7,800 sare ft and then we have another portion that's like 10,000 square feet and we're just trying to like have it expanded into one big one bigger area that we can base out of because we're not just New York City we're down we're heading down to Florida we're kind of you know we're trying to expand into this area as well and this is a perfect area for us so so you're saying 95% of the of of the work is just puzzling pie together yeah and prepping it putting onto the trailer and getting it ready stacking it onto in the correct members to go through the correct time to the site right and then when the casin is fully put together you take it outside it stayed there temporarily right and once it's prepared we usually try and get it onto a trailer to go to the site the next time the next what is your definition of temporary um to go outside a day or two maximum right and make that a condition of approval yeah yeah yeah okay all right and it's not going to be any more than 10 ft High rightly 10 high there's no need to any other questions chair um the um the trucks they're all owned by EDC ecd correct yeah we own all of our own truck tractor trailers and trailers where are they maintained where are they maintained in our shop in Congress New York we have a a specific machinery shop with like a the full thing is set up there that we can all of our equipment is service where our mechanics are based in our shop in Congress New York and the the equipment that you brought I you said indicated brought from abroad no no I'm saying like just one piece of equipment I'm talking not the actual Machinery it's all from here it's all cata or whatever it might be a question for the architect but are there floor drains there will be floor drains required in a couple of areas yes inside inside where the bathroom is and just where there'll be like an eyewash and a sink a wash hand sink and that'll be connected to the um the sewer system and it's a septic system that it goes to the drain but there's no Flor drains that you know might accept some um fluids from a truck guess no there there will be no work done on the truck inside there there's no setup to do that and there's no floor drains except for bathrooms eyewash that type thing yeah that's all we've that's all we' put forward okay all right thank you okay okay well that would be our last witness unless you would like to hear from our traffic engineer Cory Chase wait one more thing this the applicant agrees to just identify where in the site plane they're going to have the storage right so yes as a condition of approval striping yes a striping system striping to show where the edges of storage can go as well as I I believe it was testified that we would provide a hatched area where the storage area could possibly be and we would like to hear from your traffic engine sure okay our next witness is Chase all right you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right good evening everyone Corey Chase with Dynamic traffic uh licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey Bachelor's of Science and civil engineering please Please spell your last name for the uh the board secretary certainly it's c h a e first name is Corey c o r e y all right and the board accepts the credentials thank you welcome to Jackson thank you cor you prepared a traffic impact study date December 8 2023 that was submitted to the board is that correct that's correct okay if you could very briefly go through the findings of your report how you arrived at those conclusions and then I know since the time you prepare the report I think you've have more refined operations information from the applicant if you can address uh your opinion on the impact of the uh neighboring roadway system yeah certainly uh as Lisa just mentioned we did prepare a traffic impact study was previously submitted to the board dated December 8th 2023 uh and looking at the overall impacts of the Redevelopment of the shic property on the adjacent roadway Network we focused on the peak hours which as you just heard from both operations testimony as well as a civil testimony provided by Mr sewald uh you know being that this is construction Associated use you know these employees are coming to the site at around 5:00 a.m. the trucks are leaving relatively early so what we presented in our analysis was looking at typical roadway peak hours so between 7:00 and 9:00 a.m. between 4: and 6:00 p.m. uh what you've heard our hours of operation are from 5:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. so there'll certainly be no impact on the adjacent roadway Network during that evening Peak commuter hour all of our employees are going to be back to the site and have gone home by that time so what we presented in here is really conservative and what it showed is the adjacent intersection of Mammoth Road with Allison Road would continue to operate at acceptable levels of service the traffic associated with the development of the subject property represented less than 2% of the traffic at that adjacent intersection and as you heard we're going to have a maximum of 20 employees on site currently with six tractor trailers going in and out a day um just to give the board an idea as to what that level of traffic generation constitutes the New Jersey Department of Transportation and The Institute of Transportation Engineers they set a threshold of 100 additional trips in a peak hour is what they Define as a significant increase in traffic so this site's going to generate well below that uh you heard it through prior testimony that we're amenable to uh accommodating the police department's request of imposing a left turn egress only restriction so that everyone exiting the site goes back to Mammoth Road and I know Mr Peters brought up earlier um the potential impacts associated with the development of the industrial park located directly to the north of this subject property across Allison Road the the tiger Business Park we were able to get a copy of that traffic study from the township I did take a look at that impact um and the results were similar to what we had presented in our traffic impact so i''d be happy to submit that to Mr Peters for further review as a condition of approval if he so wishes and with that I'd be happy to answer any questions that the Border professionals have any questions on the board regarding traffic Mr Mar um so the the hours of operation are from 5 a to 300 pm. I don't see any any times in here that kind of correlate to that start and end time I see that like at the end of the day I think you your start time was at 4:30 is there any reason why you didn't put those times in there yeah that's a great question so this really represents a conservative analysis and we we do this so that uh you heard some discussions earlier you know if this was ever to change hands you know what would the potential impacts be so we focus our analysis on the the typical peak hours of the roadway uh knowing that if it works during those times um knowing that the applicant has its hours of operations such that it will have very limited impacts during those times um so that represents a worst case scenario so what we're showing is very conservative um knowing that in fact the applicant would operate it at what we term off hours anything else gentlemen um Mr Chase have your anyone from your office made an application to the county with regards to this application I believe an application was made by Dynamic was it made already Josh County application yes yeah County application was made I don't know if it was approved yet not yet I was wondering given the nature of the use if you had received any comments back from the county as it relates to the intersection it's my recollection from the application we had across the street that the county had some either improvements that were necessary or contributions to be made to the intersection I just don't recall um so my concern Madam chair is that if the board acts in the affirmative it has to specifically state that you're going to need to deal with the county as a separate entity so here the you profer an application before a board in Jackson Township and you have two frontages you you widen the frontages curb sidewalk storm drainage Street lighting so they're asking to contribute to the shape uh the traffic safety fund for curban sidewalks for the areas that they're not going to improve Allison Road I just want to make sure we're clear as to what Jackson Township expects from the applicant if they go into construction I thought we did say that they had to provide curbing yes along the frontages we're going to Frontage of except to the wetlands portion correct I from the driveway to mmth right right that's along Allis and then on on MMO they of approval we would expect any uh uh County recommendations absolutely we understand that we have to submit to the county as a separate entity Mr anything um just you know on the issue of of the curbing you know at the intersection say regardless of what Mammoth County know approves or disapproves of a curb return um along the corner of Allison and Mammoth yeah we can certainly work with your office to come up with an acceptable limit of curving at that intersection but um just so to Define where that that cor cor where the radius is and so it's not edge of pavement yeah I can't believe the um um that lamth County would have any issue with that so that would be a recommendation to do some type of curbing you know at that that at that intersection certainly we're happy to work with you on that thank you that me from the board just to be clear so if the county comes back says that you need to make any contributions the applicants more than willing to do what they have to do yeah the applicant's willing to comply with the county comments as needed to get approval all right all right should we open it to the public at this time well I think we still have to have the Eng engineer for the planning testimony do we need any other I thought that was the end of your testimony that was the in the testimony we were going to put Josh on separately in the capacity as a professional planer but I believe Madam chair thought that there was enough testimony put on as far as the parking bar we asked him all the questions that dealt with everything he was supposed to talk about but I'm sure the public may have more questions Josh let's just put you on just in the capacity as a professional planner just to make make the record uh clear clear and complete there was a parking waiver and waiver identified I think by the engineer and variance identified by the by the board's planner can you discuss whether you believe in your professional opinion as a planner where the board has the ability to Grant this certainly and I'll be brief this is a clear-cut case of a C2 planning uh variance basically that the positives outweigh the detriment we're looking to keep development to a minimum here so you have a better planning where you can reduce on-site impervious coverage comply with all of your other bulk standards for impervious coverage building coverage and setbacks and because you have a custom site specific approval you get to customize this site plan to be utilized just for this operator so overall I believe that it is in a benefit and a better planning alternative to have less parking on site comply with what the um applicant needs also complies with the it uh parking generation manual it certainly advances the purposes of the municipal anus law for g i and J most importantly the better efficient use of land and overall I don't see any negative detriment to keeping the on-site parking to a minimum and if we had to of course there's still other pavement areas that could be restriped to comply so overall and to that end you did say you would provide our uh professionals with a overlay plan for additional parking if the need arose that is correct Madam chair that okay that fine all right anything else any other questions board professionals all right now we'll open it to the public you might as well sit there anyone wishing to speak on this uh application please come forward cross-examine purposes Y what he meant by that was that the questions have to be asked concerning the testimony that was given absolutely thank you you're welcome please raise your right hand you Solly swear or affirm do tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth absolutely all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Linda Thompson t h m p s o n and your address 50 RoR Road in Jackson so I'm a neighbor I did receive my my letter and I had my whole list of things and thank you so much for me being able to check off a lot of them um one of my questions is about chemicals any chemical smells or any um thing being stored in there that we should be concerned about no chemicals on site ma'am okay the other uh ma'am if you could speak into the microphone it's being recorded oh sure thank you the other issue I had was I know about I've been in my home for 38 years when the development was nothing but Woods I knew about the drainage problem because when that was filled with crushed cement it backed up into our homes because I live behind them I don't live exactly behind that area but I live right next to it so my concern was about the water um it's you're basically saying that it will be straightened out and there won't be that big drainage problem that we have right now where the water is still lays so so great question this is the important part of site plan applications Redevelopment and having to go to about half a dozen different agencies okay what's out there today prior to my client closing on the property was an illegal fill and development of the parcel which created to a possible drainage issue in the nearby area with the Redevelopment of this property the building and the pavement will be collected on site through a piping system and then sent underground to five different types of stone Water Management facilities for pavement underground infiltration and an above ground feature as well substantially improving the on-site drainage characteristics of the property and the surrounding areas and then it discharges into the Wetland so not only do we have to obtain the blessing from this board you also have to obtain the blessing from the DP as well okay you talked about the traffic I know that the tiger ladies property we've been back and forth and I don't know where that ends right now or where it is but I do know about the traffic and I do see that you said you took that uh the traffic study was done on December 8th 2023 my concern with the traffic there is that making a left out of Allison Road to Mammoth Road or making a right out of Allison Road much safer to make a right than a left and I'm not talking out of where right your driveway I'm talking about out of 537 and if we're going to have other buildings and everybody's going to come into cluster with traffic it's very difficult during Great Adventure I know you've heard this before nobody seems to take traffic studies when Great Adventures is open and Fright Fest is open nobody seems to want to know at that point what are we supposed to do there's times from Freehold for me to turn left into Allison which I do take to go home I could sit in that traffic down to syum Road for a half an hour which literally takes six and a half minutes so big concern for me is traffic um I'd love to see or I'd love to see that you come out at peak times when the neighborhood will tell you what the peak times are because we know what the peak times are and we know when the peak seasons are um traffic on 537 has gotten horrendous and if you have anything that you can add to tell me that it's going to you know be okay and that these TR trailers or whatever storage units are going to make a left because I'm sure they're going to 195 I don't think they're going to the free hole mall so they're going to 195 which means they got to come out and make a left on 537 and those are all great points man which is one other statement the tiger ladies property we were told if they came out to 537 they weren't Mammoth County said no you're not coming out on 537 you've got to come out on this Allison road which they did just pave about six months ago they seem to have made it a tiny bit wider but then I heard a story that they're going to put a cue sack in there and you're we're not that we have to go that way don't get me wrong but it is a closer way to get to 537 then come out on broadrick make the right another right on 537 to get to freeold that's a concern yeah certainly those are all valid points ma'am and what you heard through earlier testimony from the applicant as well as Mr sewald was that you know the unique operations of this facility and given that the contractor wants the materials on site for when construction starts on site at 7: a.m. so the unique those unique operations mean that they're going to be leaving much earlier than those peak times but they're also going to be returning before those peak times so you're dealing with really what we call a complimentary use and that it generates traffic even though it is minimal with only in 20 employees and six trucks okay it generates traffic during those off peak times if this was an office building or something of that nature where everyone was showing up between 800 and 9 and leaving between 4 and 6:00 p.m. you know we have a much more significant concern because you're going to be compounding the traffic onto those Peak conditions that are already out there today okay okay I like the hours of operation I will ask about the lighting um I think you said because I think I wrote down that it will go off an hour after the B the building closes and correct come on an hour earlier than them getting there approximately you're saying 35 ft I don't know what that is I mean in in 30t 30 feet high I don't know what the highest tree is over there but I know that I can sit on my back deck and I can see over there that was a little bit of a concern the lighting but if as long as it's going off at an hour that is accessible to the surrounding you know neighbors then I guess I'm you know of course I'm fine with that um I'd like the board to answer a question for me I know we're not talking about the tiger ladies property and the and the also the building that's going across the street from Ellison Road and I heard that you were there um and I I wish you would have stopped by cuz I'm having my house sided sorry and I think somebody a couple people came down my road today and I was like I don't know what that's all about we're on a dead end so anybody I try to I try to drive by every site right either on Sunday or Monday for the meetings um I I saw no serious issue now I know making a left is not going to be a joy on Mammoth Road but then we have to understand that this is a business I understand and there and that and their goal I would assume is to get to 195 right which isn't too far and doesn't go as far as great adventure so they're they're not going to really be in that kind of track right and I believe what they're doing is wonderful and I knew Kenny Long prior to and the house I'll be sad to see it go down um I been in the area for like I said a long time is anybody taking into consideration what's going on with the tiger ladies property and the thing the street to to see what's going to happen when it's all there well cuz I don't know anything's been settled on that when we when we consider traffic we always hear about different projects that are ongoing but only to certain degree okay so the residents are still going to be able to utilize Allison Road and go out and make a left or a right yes absolutely absolutely it's only we're only uh concerned that that no trucks make a right on our well that would be my other concern and I'm sure that won't happen it it has happened in the past with other trucking companies it's not going to happen because they're going to curb it in a certain way that it will not make it comfortable for a truck to make a right ter okay and signage okay um I think that's everything I think that's everything thank you very much anytime thank you man' this is an easy truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record because we don't know who you are Jim Sakia s ECC hi live at six harfield drive I'm nowhere near this site my question huh yeah sorry yeah I think I'd know this by now right my question is very simple uh I believe the planner or engineer whichever aspect he was doing at that point and also the uh project man senior project manager made the exact same use the exact same word he said this is a perfect location for their business I get you're rable for Jackson so it's a great thing I'm not here to dispute that what makes this spot the perfect location for you it's all so from a planning standpoint one it's a permitted use within the zone so the board and the council contemplated in the master plan that this is the type of use that they want on this Corridor probably near close proximity to The Interchange and from a client perspective it's because of the close proximity to The Interchange because their trucks are going to go on to 195 and then to the turnpike and other interstates to get to Philadelphia or New York City for their special Quon okay that's fine that's the other comment and I think you kind of stated is all six trucks are coming from 195 there will never be a truck coming down Mammoth Road it's not anticipated at all because that that would be the big concern I would have is dur peak hours trying to make a left on mmth County Road on Mammoth Road onto Allison Road especially during Great Adventure season people coming down l Road behind the truck waiting I don't know if there's enough room so the other thing that I have a I've been spinning around is just I keep hearing contractor warehouse but if I listen to the definition of contractor Warehouse that Jackson has been using lately this doesn't fit so I'm kind of confused just it fit better sir than a warehouse a warehouse is a place to store no and distri distribute this is not what's happening here this is a an assembly which is what goes on at contractor warehouses it fits the definition a little better although there is no pure definition yet I know we went I know I know the boards have gone round and round as to what a definition of a contractor Warehouse is that's why just from everything I've heard contractor warehouses are more let's let's restrict it right now to questions just for cross-examination so well it's for right now it's cross-examination right so uh we'll get the general comment in shortly but if you have any questions about uh about the definition and how they Define it just just ask them okay this board this year has been seeing a lot of contractor Warehouse come before it they have all been somewhat different than what you're doing I'm not just I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing it as matter fact I kind of look at what you're doing and go this is a good spot for it I don't have a problem with that I just want to for future references you want to know the difference I want to make sure that when we say contractor Warehouse we're always looking at a contractor Warehouse certainly I I was even here in April couple months ago and that is a very different type of building design and you'll see long skinny buildings with multiple doors sometimes sunken loading sometimes acrade loading and you could have dozens of different tenants in there that is more of your traditional contractor warehouse It's a smaller footprint smaller square footage because you're essentially leasing out to the local landscaper you know electrician even an engineering firm who may need a truck maybe a lab for a Geotech Etc this is very specific the HC Zone does not just say Flex Warehouse or contractor Warehouse that would be more applicable to all the industrial warehousing zones that are part of Jackson and they are very specific actually it should include a contractor's office which this has showroom not applicable to our client garage that's where our vehicles will be stored warehouse storage of internal property and shop for all of that assemblage that you heard before so I think Jackson actually has a very specific definition of the niche group of people that can go inside of this and they did that because it's their HC zone They you see that more for retails type of development any other more intense aspect of a warehouse would be a associated with those heavier zones the the warehousing industrial and light industrial zones okay fine thank you anyone else like to speak on the application so so just to be clear we closed cross-examination now we're going to open it up to public comments um but I I believe that Mr bressie had one question for the engineer regarding uh waste disposal it'll be stored yeah thank you sir uh great question always comes up on an application apologize for not touching on it sometimes you'll see an outside trash enclosure with different recepticles everything is in stored inside of the building everything the the small garbage enclosure for the lunch and the paper waste any byproduct of you of the assemblage that you heard will go back on that same truck inside the building will go back out somewhere else if the board sincerely wanted it the applicant has already advised and said that we can provide an on-site corraled enclosure they just don't need it it's going to be inside of the building nope happy to have it inside okay just that's fine and and gar garbage pickup is that going to be private hauler will be taken care of by the applicant in between the same hours of operation or absolutely yeah anything else anyone uh in the public wish to come forward and make any other comments I'll accept a motion to close all in favor okay you want to wrap it up just for all the reasons stated on the record before you this evening we ask that you look favorably upon the application thank you and our professionals any closing comments from you okay we'll look for a motion please like to make a motion based all professional testimony look for a second okay Mr brei yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes M Rose yes Mr marzo yes Mr treemmer yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Camp yes congratulations thank you we'll take a 10 minute break and I mean 10 minutes e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e a warehouse and 7,000 square ft of office um the project is um compliant with the zoning requirements of the HC Zone we would ask some testimony from the applicant to confirm that the building coverage and imperious uh coverage uh complies excluding the um the onsite Wetland area the site is impacted by uh freshwater wetlands and environment and a number of environmental constraints um so any approval the board May Grant would be conditioned upon the receipt of um the appropriate approvals um the project will connect to um public order and use all private side septic system uh the project is compliant with the parking requirements or the ordinance um we should have some testimony from the from the applicant regarding the road improvements that are proposed for for West commodor um and also the extent of um the need for Phill and compliance with chapter 346 which regulates fill and importation to the um to the site um that's all at this time Mr Peters thank you madam chair our office has a report dated May 29th of this year Project's located in HC Highway commercial Zone um it is a more familiar contractor office storage building that we're used to seeing um that being said we'd certainly like to hear some testimony about what they're going to do again almost to put forth what they're not going to do um I didn't see dumpsters on the plans so i' like some testimony about the dumpsters and lastly we should talk about the vehicle circulation um what vehicles would be proposed to access these is there a limitation given the layout the design the limited amount of asphalt between buildings um you so maybe there aren't going to be any tractor trailers everything's going to come in a box truck that sort of um vehicle circulation testimony that's it for now thank you thank you thank you madam chair just by way of brief introduction just to add to what your Consultants laid out I just wanted to uh State for the record that in addition to preliminary and major site preliminary major site plan approval and finer major site plan approval the applicant uh is also seeking certain design waivers that I believe came up in the U in Mr C's letter uh and also um we are dealing with two lots and I think there was a comment about consolidating the two lots so we would seek that relief as well a lot consolidation so I guess in essence four categories of relief preliminary site plan final site plan design waiver lot consolidation just by way of uh uh again further introduction and some planning for the for the chair and the board we we intend to call Four Witnesses we're actually going to start with our architect which is a little um out of uh my typical order but we're doing that because Mr Roth came in from Chicago and we wanted to make sure we got him on the record uh we didn't know how uh timing was going to go tonight so we're going to start I'm not sure when his flight back is but you can certainly ask him that once he gets sworn in okay okay we have something something in common uh so we're going to start with the architecture and then I'd like to call um the principal of the applicant Mr Andrew werbler he's going to speak to some of those operational uh questions that were raised uh in the review letters uh and Then followed by our site engineer Walter Hopkins witer Hopkin and last but not least our traffic engineer Scott Kennel from McDon Ray and unless there's any other housekeeping items we would start with our architect from Chicago Mr Scott Ro all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please State your uh credentials for the record sure my name is scottt you have the my name is Scott Roth R I'm president of Ro Architects Inc in business since year 2000 I'm a licensed archit architect in the state of New Jersey for 31 years I also uh practice in Illinois Indiana and Michigan in Pennsylvania licensed in New Jersey correct sorry licensed in New Jersey I'm licensed in New Jersey correct accept Scott I'm gonna turn it over to you if there are uh uh exhibits that we wish to Mark we'll mark those as you go along but we'd like you to do just take us through the architectural proposal of the building sure um we're putting the architecture first but as you can see on the screen this is a typical uh building for our office Flex warehouse and each space uh will have its own uh garage door will have its own uh private office and a bathroom facility which is Ada accessible the building itself on the exterior has a concrete rete split Block Base and the upper portion is a metal clad system uh vertical metal panels the roof is metal it's a preat building it does have metal uh down spouts and gutters all the way around and the base does carry on all four sides a quick Interruption Scott the the um plan that's up on the screen right now is that part of the original plan set that went in with the original application or is this a new exhibit we need to mark no this is uh of the original submission this is a typical 4unit building I believe there's two other exhibits behind this uh that show the other Footprints of the other two buildings that are similar in layout okay yes that would be the other building sheet A3 there should be an A2 before that I believe here you go let's a A1 there should be an A2 in there there it is yep so all three buildings um are are similar in terms of what the exteriors are and what the floor plan does it's just they're different uh lengths yes so that request came in late I do have them here to pass around if if I'm allowed to do that yes please before we do that I just want to check I'm not sure if those made it in electronically do you also have rendering architectural renderings if not we have paper copies but there's a okay so we'll do we'll do the paper copies and we'll we'll we'll mark those Scott if you can identify what we're passing out and we're going to mark that as exhibit A1 so what we're passing around is the actual building that's built in another municipality so you can see how it looks in reality both um in scale and massing its materials and actually the color scheme which was asked for sheet this is uh sheet A4 so it would be the fourth exhibit just just to be clear so um we have this labeled as A4 on this sheet but this Sheet's going to be identified as A1 on in the record that is correct all right well that's pretty much uh what I have as far as describing the building just to give some more insight on it it will be a fully sprinklered building as per the NFPA 13 um it's a non-combustible building so there's no wood that's being built here it's all steel and and block okay oh solar panels um I'll defer that to my uh client because I'm not sure what we're looking to do as far as that right now but I will say that these offices are air conditioned and heated uh the warehouse space itself is heated as well and insulated just have a brief question have you consider making this look attractive at all I mean just even in the industry of making these fa sides remotely attractive we we can take a look at that this as I said this was an example of one that's already built um obviously colors can change um you know it is a warehouse and it is in a rectangular box there's so much happening in your field there's so many interesting things going on that even students are taking very Bland basic scenes and just nothing dramatic but just making them remotely attractive sure would be a a really nice change in the industry we can take a look at that certainly so just following up on that um the applicant be willing to uh send a colored rendering into uh for Board review just to take a look at it to make sure it's aesthetically what we're looking for absolutely yeah sure we'll do that sure just a quick one floor draam uh not inside the building no right thank you question so this is going to be representation of um hopefully not but this is going to be a representation of all four of the buildings correct all right and they're all basically prefab of the same nature correct all right sure Mr Roth you had indicated I think on one of the plans that um each building had one mechanical area or mechanical room yes can you just explain that please sure each building has a mechanical room set aside for the sprinkler operation the house electric panel will be in there and the alarm system that Services the whole building you're welcome well you know hang on so the inside of the structure so uh it's going to be how many end users are you looking to um contain we have no users at this time so we really don't know if you don't mind holding that question for our next witness who's Andrew werbler even though he won't be able to answer that with a number could at least explain to you what he expects to happen but inside the building now architecturally so are we is it predominantly we predominantly looking at contractor use is there is there some kind of office component to it is there again I would have Mr describe that yeah yeah I think you have a better idea once he he's operating one of these now in in Lakewood so I think he can give you a good idea of what we expect can't guarantee uh but it's I think it's typical of what might happen as long as right it'll give you an idea at least comparison yes all right may I call my next witness sure yeah my next witness is Andrew werbler yeah please raise your right hand do you swear or affm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth all right please uh list your conen for the record uh my name is Andrew warbler I'm the principal managing member of HW Jackson LLC the applicant all right testifying is a uh operations expert um I guess you could say that yeah guess you um as Ron said while we don't have any units pre-leased um this project is conceived as a contractor where warehouses and storage spaces for small businesses um we do as Ron said have a similar project in Lakewood and another project in malbro Township um currently the uses um in those other projects are uh HV contractors uh a roofing and siding contractor closet installer those types of things um the units can be divided into spaces as small as 1650 square feet that includes a 12 X6 office with an ADA accessible bathroom and each unit has its own um ground level Drive-In bay door um tenants may take more than one unit um and that's uh that's common not everybody does but it's not unusual for uh a tenant a business to want two units that would bring them to 3300 Square ft it's rare that somebody wants more than that type more than that amount of space case um each tenant as I said as a garage door for their own loading purposes and uh these are proposed as 12x 14t doors the space in front of that door is approximately uh 13 by 29 on the plan and uh that's used for uh either loading in and out of the unit or for their own uh business parking although they also have uh two dedicated parking stalls in front of their own unit um we will ensure in response to uh your professionals letters uh that um our leases contain hours of operation language that's consistent with your municiple ordinance uh if it's spelled out in the ordinance our experience is that the contractors typically uh come anytime between 6:00 and 7 A.M to load up for the day um and uh so that's why I believe in our um narrative we put hours of operation starting at 6:00 a.m. um we do not have any proposed directory sign we have no no uh anticipated retail use here um no wallmounted identification signs the units are all numbered and we permit uh the businesses to identify their business on their uh entry doors and that's how they're they're located um again in response to some of the uh questions raised in the letters the site improvements are going to be owned and maintained by us uh the applicant um we are responsible for the shell of the building any structural components of the buildings um the interior maintenance of the individual units are handled by the tenants individually which you know changing light bulbs uh Plumbing stoppages that type of thing um um I do personally visit all of our properties multiple times a week we have an existing uh management staff who also visits all properties routinely they pick up debris uh ensure all the Landscaping is being maintained snow Main main um and that there's no other you know safety or aesthetic issues um regarding um uh Mr Peter's comment about the trash removal uh the way we do handle that because the tenants do vary in what they do use um currently everybody stores a two or three yard dumpster on Wheels inside their unit and they wheel it out just on pickup day and they bring it in and again we do Patrol the properties to ensure proper compliance um with that Andrew if I could just ask you one follow-up question when you uh testified uh as to what the typical uses were in your existing buildings that was uh not meant to necessarily limit your uses is that correct correct we will our intents to comply with all the uses that are permitted in in the ordinance and there will be no outside storage no no outside storage nothing further Mr no chemicals no chemicals or hazardous substances any other board questions Mr C Mr Peters any questions for this gentlemen yeah no retail Mr Marza um so I just wanted to clarify the the um the time that you would be open and like what's the end time um hours of operation it's really up to the individual businesses so um typical is if most of the contractors do come sometime between 6:00 and 7 a.m. uh to load up for the day and most of them are are back you know certainly by five if not earlier um typically do some office work we do leave um the I'll leave the lighting to the engineer but um you know in our experience what we do is the street lights we do have on a timer to shut those up so they're not on all night but there are um facade uh wall pack lights uh to provide some safety at night if somebody does stay in the office past dark those are on photo cell those will stay on typically all night and that's seven days a week the the lights no the use um our experience that are are the commercial properties are typically pretty quiet on the weekends um and again you know we will include in our leases any compliance no nights no night activity no nobody really there at night all right I have a question hold on Mr chmer so there's going to be no chance of a body shop mechanical shop uh what was the last one I'm sorry Pool Supply cuz I know there's U nearby they use a very similar building and it's a pool supply place pool pool supplies or chemicals that's the concern I see I'll start first with uh the auto we do not permit mechanics or auto body shops the primary thing is that they're they are dirty they produce a lot of byproducts and also the parking we like to preserve the parking to make it fair for all the tenants I don't have any p supply companies at any of the other buildings um again when the the fire sprinkler um designer kind of gives us what we are and are not allowed to store in the building and we comply with that um I don't recall if that was on the list but it's never come up I I don't have any experience with full supply companies okay thank you so you'd have no trouble stipulating no chemicals on site I think chemical is a broad term but if you'd like to prohibit you know I don't hazardous materials that that yes absolutely and that is in our leases no hazardous materials correct okay good Mr Sol would that any office operations past APM as well like if somebody's any operations whatsoever past APM sure yeah sure that's fine most contractors are are not there at 8m anyways anything folks gentlemen all right have another witness sir yes Madam chair our next witness is our site engineer Mr Walter Hopkin all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth yes I do all right please spell your name spell your last record sure Walter Hopkin h o p k i n and your credentials I'm a licensed professional engineer in the states of New Jersey New York Pennsylvania Delaware and Maryland I'm a certified Municipal engineer in state of New Jersey I'm a professional planner in state of New Jersey have my Bachelor of Science from Drex University and I have been accepted here before it's a you got you got a few credentials just a few we it's just a fee it's just a yearly fee you're going to be testifying as as which one of those multiples of credentials professional engineer I don't believe that we have any uh variances that we require planning testimony but it's necessary would yes thank you so I I'll kind of reorient the the the board to the site for the record I'll do it quickly um it's I'm interrup you yeah if it if it's okay the first uh exhibit which was the color rendering um that's it thank you and that's a color rendered version of our plan submitted to the board dated December 5th 2023 with a uh a um satellite imagery over it to answer Mr bry's uh question I believe we used near map which is uh flown every six months so it's probably been within six months that uh pay a little extra for that and that is a new exhibit we're going to Mark as exhibit A2 correct whatever you'd prefer yeah it is not part of the plan set correct this is an exhibit yes A2 C PL color rendering yeah yes just a point on the bottom is this Township of Jackson Mammoth County New Jersey we're in Ocean County New Jersey about thank you thank you says the council so it is a 16.28% Acre Site uh currently it's vacant known as block 2603 Lots 5 and 22 uh it's located west of your intersection of West commodor and right deau and it actually does front on both uh roads if you can see right deau at the top of the the screen and West commor at the bottom of the screen it is located in your HC Zone and the surrounding uses to the north is again right to B Road there's a warehouse uh just to the east of us that you can see uh that's in your MF Zone there's also single family residential across the street which does have some buffering along the roadway that you can see and there's also some fencing to the South is West Commodore there's single family residential development uh just off the site that we couldn't um squeeze onto it uh there are buffers also there vegetative buffers and that's located in your R3 Zone to the east is a single family resident residential um just east of that was the uh is a an application this office actually prepared for Miles uh it it's I think listed in your professionals um letters as as uh as residential there is a residential component to but there's also Auto Sales there as well and then to the east of that is uh is Jerry's uh to the West is a vacant piece of property uh and wetlands and that's also in HC Zone currently it's it's vacant as I indicated the drainage pattern generally goes from the right of the page to the left you'll see that there's a tribute uh a blue line which is a tributary to the mtoon and that's where the site uh drains towards there is a a letter of interpretation that we've applied for uh to delineate the wetlands those are shown on this plan and uh we don't intend to encroach on the wetlands or any of the buffers as part of this application so Al though we'll need D's concurrence with our delineation we won't need to go back to them for any encroachment on the buffers um there's also a raran buffer that would be associated with that tributary and we're respecting that as well I believe in one of your professionals comments there was a question about encroachment on the reparan buffer I had the same question but I looked at it again and it's it's just a labeling thing and we can clarify that with your professionals there's no encroachment intended uh on the repairing buffer what we have before you we believe is variance free it's also to consolidate these Lots as as Mr Shimano once indicated with permitted uses which you've just heard uh contractor reflect space and it's something that the board obviously has some familiarity with it's similar to his project in lwood and I'd like to call it a more modernized version than what I think they used to call the West Commodore Business Park I don't know if the sign's up there at all but believe a gentleman had had referred to that previously uh as you can see there's still a lot of uh open space left on the site in green area we're clearing only 46% of the site uh there was uh I believe from Mr CLE and also in Mr Peter's letter a reference to your coverages your ordinance requires that we subtract the wetlands from the area and determining your the um compliance with your impervious and your building coverage uh we will revise the plans and and calculate this accurately but but uh we've done this and I can testify tonight that the building coverage is 99.3% whereas your ordinance allows 30% the impervious coverage is 23.4% where your ordinance allows 75% so as you can see to be fair a lot of this has to do with the wetlands and the buffers but we are uh only developing a small portion of this property there'll be five buildings uh your professionals have asked us to to label them and of course we will for uh better identific each building is 33 ft deep and as uh Mr Roth indicated they vary from 4 to 14 units for a total of 57,7 square ft and there are proposed to be 35 units uh up to 35 units some of them may be Consolidated as as um Mr warber had indicated and each building uh each unit is 33 by 50 ft will be 200 ft of office, 1450 Square ft of open space or Warehouse uh will be fire supressed which means it'll be sprinklered we're proposing a two-way Ingress and egress on West Commodore Boulevard no access at all to right deau uh that access we've applied to the county would be full movement um both ways it is a little unique and we've kind of chosen to develop this to make it look a little bit nicer than just a warehouse so it'll be a landscape Boulevard entrance uh to the site which will then taper down to a 25 ft uh two-way uh circulation throughout the site we will provide this to your professionals to demonstrate it but we have had up to a WB 50 that can circulate this site as well as a pumper truck we'll provide those templates to your professionals but we have them internally and I checked them before I came this evening there'll be curb along the access drives and out um on the radi on West Commodore Boulevard there are not curb proposed in front of the buildings it's it's an operational issue it makes it uh to have easier access and allows the um the contractors's vehicles to be able to pull right into the the building itself we're not proposing curb or sidewalk along either Road um on West Commodore Boulevard uh the county did not request Curbing and we have experience with that with the other application so it is just um pavement at this point uh no curb is proposed except for the radi uh and no sidewalk propose at this time it's my professional opinion that without curb uh it wouldn't be safe to have the sidewalk understanding that your ordinance requires that a contribution be made in L um right to Bow is a little bit different if you see there's a yellow line that kind of goes right to the corner there that's the raran buffer um where really not permitted to put um Kerber sidewalk up there without uh some sort of a permit I'm not even sure if it would be granted so again we would propose not to uh have Curb or sidewalk up there I don't think there's any sidewalk in the area there is curb on a portion of it um but would request that that um the contribution made be made in Le because of the environmental constraints as been testified there's two designated parking spaces in front of each um unit along with a loading area which can also be used for parking and um the the vehicle can actually be parked inside of the uh building as well we also have 15 Extra Spaces interspersed throughout the site um which have handicap spaces as well as EV spaces which are required by Ada as well as uh state requirements the ordinance requires a loading area for all of these types of um um in the HC Zone we don't comply with the size of your loading um just because of the nature of the the use but each unit has its own loading space which is the right in front of the overhead door so uh we would um respectfully request relief technically from your ordinance from providing a loading area just because we don't comply with the actual size of the loading area I think it's a little bit larger because it contemplates a larger truck I think there was a question about the the types of trucks and deliveries uh it's it's typical to have a box truck uh which would comfortably fit in the um space outside of the of the overhead garage door uh it is possible that a tractor trailer could be on site for um to drop off a pallet or something like that uh and we've demonstrated that that can circulate throughout the site as far as grading uh there'll be no repairing disturbance um will require a small amount of import and we are aware of the uh requirements of your ordinance regarding certification of the import of the soil and its origin and would comply with that there are three uh shallow approximately three foot deep infiltration basins there's also a recharge area that discharges into the um into one of the infiltration basins and all of these will discharge into the wetlands um respecting uh all buff buffers and again this will be reviewed by uh d as well landscaping and buffers uh we comply with the width of the buffers required um several of your professionals have commented on the the density of the plant material uh and we certainly as far as the landscape comments uh would comply with the what's being requested and would work with uh your professionals to enhance the buffers especially uh I believe against Lot 18 was a request because that is a residential uh use adjacent to our property as indicated this would be serviced by public water and septic systems each building would have its own uh small septic system we've designed these before uh and would condition this upon any approval from the Ocean County Health Department uh and we did receive a letter from the MUA we haven't applied for approval yet but they have indicated that water is available for us sight lighting throughout the site I believe one of your professionals uh commented on the intensity and that we there was some areas that needed to be uh increased we would do that um and comply with your ordinance there uh there would also be houseside Shields where anything is near or residential area refu was indicated no uh outside storage of it it's all done inside and there's a small uh there's a sign proposed to be um uh in the front of the of the U entrance to the site it will comply with your ordinance there was I think a comment in one of the letters that the height might be a little off so we'll revise the detail is on our plans but we'll revise it to make sure that it complies with the ordinance and and wouldn't want to ask for relief from that I think that's it as far as the amenities of the site um we do require some relief that I could maybe touch on um as far as what your ordinance requires and what we're not quite measuring up to one is that your ordinance requires that a letter of interpretation be obtained um prior to submission and and the way the D is operating these days that's a little impractical so we have applied for the letter of interpretation we actually did it last year we're still waiting um as of this morning they still haven't uh scheduled a site inspection so we would certainly accept that as a condition of approval if any anything should change to drastically uh impact the the site layout we we'd be back to see you um as I'd indicated before you ordinance requires a loading area of a certain size we don't quite have the length that's required by ordinance but each uh unit has its own loading area sidewalk and curbing along the frontage I think we I discussed that and would just request relief from providing it in lie of um making the contribution that's required your ordinance I think also require is a concrete apron which we would add and would not request relief from that uh curbing from uh parking areas again from operational standpoint it's much better to keep this flat in front uh and wheel stops are proposed so we would request relief from the curbing just in front of the buildings um parking along entrance aisles just by the nature of the layout of this something that we can't practically avoid uh and then there's a new there's num um buffer requirements and I I think we can comply with those we just we meet the width we just need to add some additional plant mat material to to comply there is one section of re ordinance that requires um Landscaping in the parking areas and again operationally for this type with contractors it doesn't make a lot of sense what we would offer is whatever plant material would be required we just plant it elsewhere on the site just not directly in the parking area um as far as Outside Agency approvals we've applied for Ocean County soils and that's pending planning board as well there there were no real comments from the the planning board uh just that they want a 25 foot half width which we would widen in front of the roadway Frontage as required waiting for de Health Department we would apply for once we receive approval from from you and we would also apply to the MUA for water once we receive approval that's correct yes that's that's a great Point um the only hesitation I have to that is that the there's that reparan buffer out on right to Bow so I don't I don't know that we have area to even sneak a an emergency access out there without encroaching on that buffer well um I'm not a firefighter I think you may have one on on on the board um but I I would suggest I would I would suggest that in an and I don't want to be so bold to say this but in an emergency that there could be access provided from those commercial either through Jerry's or the other the other site uh the warehouse doesn't work that way I think it's pry it doesn't work Tremor okay Tremor can you take this no I have that all here I mean it's this this building has a metal roof that's why you're sprinkling is it truss inside metal trust or just a steel frame that would be for the it's outside M okay so it has no fire rating okay so now with that in mind you need full access in the back is there a back door in these units I'm sorry chair he should be on the record with the microphone according to the building code uh there's only one Ingress and egress entry door aside from the garage door that's in each unit so that's an interesting concept if we have to get emergency access to the back so we have situation I mean like Mr Bry said how we going to get around the building with equipment I don't I don't know that there's space to get behind even just practically speaking how how many feet from the property line Mr Peters do we have a a traffic a fire safety letter uh on this I have the traffic I I don't I don't think I have the uh fire yet fire even looked at this Mr Shay we have a fire Memo from December of last year that's the last one SE December of last year yeah have the plans changed since then so um no the plans haven't changed we would comply with their letter we have no problem complying with their letter and uh it looks smaller on on TV but it's it's actually 45 ft correct my partner here knew that so you can get a fire Tru back there or emergency vehicles I mean it's we're kind of like trying to shape things and you know it's not fair to everybody else if we let you slide we need access is there curbs in the parking lot there are curbs in the access aisles um yes right so where it comes around the building so now you you have fire trucks trying to jump Cur hers and get get yourself set up I mean I I would respectfully request that you get an easement or something and at least put an emergency access gate on the other end because basically one lane in one Lan out you have a panic situation or let's say one of you got a tractor trailer that's stuck there and it's on fire next to the building what are you going to do you know it's it's kind of it's kind of sketchy the way it's put together right now I don't I don't see how so with the and again respectfully so it's 50 ft deep would would it be realistic that if they had access to the front that there would be a reason to go to the to the back okay yeah do you have it how about how about grass pavers would that be something to consider grass pavers are an interesting concept the problem is most of them when they do the grass pavers will give us only a two two two to three foot wide runways you're putting a 40 50 foot piece of apparatus you need a 20 foot solid area that's com with compacted soil that's going to be C verified and certified that it can hold up to 70 or 80,000 pounds because when the Jacks go out for support Jacks yeah so there's a lot involved here and yes you're going to put sprinklers in there makes a big difference if they work you know you could have a situation where the fire starts in the utility room in the back corner gets above the sprinklers and compromises them then we make the channel 12 news so I I do if it would help I I do believe we have up to four I think the the fire department's letter requested a fourth hydrant so there are four hydrants throughout the the site as well there probably Mr O'Brien wanted that which is a great idea I no more hydrants is better trust me that's that's a great thing but the hydrant doesn't do any good if you don't have access they if let's say you have a large volume of fire you may have to go around the back of the building being it's a metal prefab and cut some holes and operate in there to knock it down to try and save the rest of the building so access is important from the firefighting standpoint do you have a traffic circulation plan uh I do have it yeah I could hand out an exhibit um is there a question about it because I I can testify that we we comply so would you be amendable to amending that to include circulation around the buildings um for the fire safety vehicles um so I I I think I don't yeah I don't know that I I can't we we have a precedence that we've kind of set at the board in that and it's it's really kind of being driven by the the fire department so to speak um um where we're requiring as much as humanly possible at least circular access to the building in the event of fire so we have we have a situation here where the lot is very weirdly proportioned um and we have a lot of volume on some pretty narrow um property ways angles whatever you want to call it um and both the the traffic safety report and the fire report question whether or not the fire trucks are going to have access to the entireties of the building so we're kind of chasing our own tail at this point so if the applicant would be amendable to creating a situation in which the uh fire trucks you know emergency vehicles would have access to uh the entirety of the buildings that would kind of go a long way I I I hear you I can't I I I can't I can say I can't look at it that's all I can say um I have encountered this situation before and quite frankly the the the fire department accepted that the the the buildings were suppressed and that satisfied their concerns in other situations is there a possibility of putting a gated emergency access onto right Deo so that the fire Department could crash through something but people could not use it as an entrance or exit just for emergency purposes is that a possibility um it's yes I I think it is i' have to what you're asking for if you give this second entrance up there yeah that we can get in from the other end totally that helps a lot emergency not for regular your Landscapes just for the emergency vehicles can get in are gated whatever you have to put so the fire truck can be held and they can come in from that end too no said get am there's enough of an area there I think to get if they moved that pond tension Bas so yeah I uh moving the pond is something that I think we could do I think we can make that work um I still have that problem with the raran buffer in the upper corner uh it it literally touches the corner of that property so it wouldn't be exiting on our property well it's it's not a normal entrance exit it would simply be you may never use it but hopefully how about we go one step further you mentioned Jerry's autobodies are budding it getting easan from Jerry to go through his property um so now if you paved alongside of these buildings instead of having curbs trucks could get get there and like Dr Campbell said you do some a 20 foot grass paper in the back kind of with the emergency access you kind of alleviated your own problem very simply I I I recognize that the board is is trying to help us here and I don't want to seem resistant to it I just want to make sure that my client doesn't get held up by by a neighbor for an easement um and well you kind of held up looking for a secondary ESS which yeah no no no no I I no I I hear I hear you I'm just I'm just telling you that's the reason why I'm not saying yeah no problem is your Cent is your client here yeah I think I think we may be helping you or not but I think we're trying to tell you we want the second emergency exit in I I he you get that hint yes yes yes sir I'm just trying to figure out how to get it so I don't want to commit to one way or the other um if if the board were comfortable we could certainly I think I haven't been kicked yet except that we would would obtain a second means of of of egress and in Ingress and and try to work that out with your professionals that would be ask you to we're going to ask you to do something anyway so you know you're G to have to come back anyway so we might as well clear up all our little eventualities like you know I know we want to see something architecturally more interesting done with that one especially that one building that faces um commodor so you know the there are two things that we want to see we want to see something more interesting architecturally on the especially one building that faces Commodore and we want to see a safer environment and I know the people at Jerry's AO body they have nothing back there but stuff you know I'll bet you could you know make a little deal with them for and that might help them as well you know it couldn't hurt so uh that might work well I appreciate that and usually in these types of situations I I I'd want to meet with somebody so we kind of have a letter from the fire department that doesn't um should we should we go to them because it's not in their letter no it's ours right so so should Mr CLE and Mr Peters so so why don't we uh before the next meeting we can set up a professional to your yeah okay before and just for the record we are not saying that you have Metro obligation the fire department gave that to you that's fine that's the fire department we respect that 100% And we must comply with that we must we must take it as a as a ruling however this board wants a second exit I got you I got circulation of the fire trucks though around the entire of the building is on is in the onsite section of the traffic safety unit report just just to be clear yes and I I don't I honestly don't have the um fire department review letter in front of me right now so I I don't know I'm sure you what said to Mr O'Brien the inspector you will have no problem agreeing with that okay and to and to make it clear we're not doing this to make your life more difficult but we will always put the safety of this town and the community and your property before anything else you're very unique understood unique piece of property here uniquely shaped so if you don't mind me just clarifying um are we are are we at look is the board looking for obviously a second means of access right that's that's clear as a b now this in light of the fact that it's suppressed and we do have the second means of access are we also looking for full circulation around the building correct yes okay but it' be an easier situation we can bring it down to what Dr Campbell said a grass paver back there and then if you pave up to the side of the buildings it gives us options as responders to Comm in I mean think about this here's a scenario you have somebody for some reason goes on the roof of the building falls off in the back all the way in that far corner you need to get an ambulance back there to get him out correct that's what we're looking for easy access to get emergency vehicles at any point of your building where somebody might have got hurt a landscap or anybody no I I understand I I'm trying to the wheels are spinning in my head to try to comply with what you are asking for I understand what you're asking for I'm just trying to figure out how to do it let's figure it out that's what I get paid to do I'm sure once your professional mind leaves this building it will start spinning and good things will happen thank you for your confidence Madam chair it's not that we're picking on anybody either this has kind of been something that's I I've kind of brought a little bit of light to that's been overlooked for a very long time and it has been an issue because I've been a respond for many years and we're just trying to improve the quality of services we have some really good police Fire EMS out there we want to give them the best opportunity to do what they can and make it easy for them because their safety is more important than anything I agree and and to let you know we have a great deal of respect for the professionals that come before this board and believe that you can accomplish these goals we'll figure it out you'll figure it out yeah I think you'll figure it out and I think I've seen you for I don't want maybe 20 30 years in front of us not all of them and we've asked for stuff like this over that 20 and 30 years and we just want to see you back in place yep thank you now let me make a clear sense your architect is from Chicago we don't need to see the architect again we just need to see some kind of there something that's aesthetically pleasing something more aesthetically pleasing especially for the building facing the road we we can certainly do that and we appreciate that so we don't have to drag him back and forth it doesn't have to come back thank you for that I presume you will uh subject him to the public though we will that's why we're going to wait for you to finish what you're going to finish and then we'll be opening it to the public just a simple analogy like Suit and Tie Suit and Tie Suit and Tie it's not that a sweatshirt doesn't fold nice and and come in clean but you're not here in sweatpants you're he in a suit and tie there's a way to make something that's fairly straightforward attractive in your own field the architect knows precisely how to do it um I recall the development was up in North Arlington McDonald's wanted to come in they wanted to put it in consistent with the neighborhood that the thought it was a little tired looking so they wanted to put a tired looking McDonald's in there and I said you're going to put the one that's in Shrewsberry which cost about a million five more but it was a gorgeous their most current McDonald's beautiful so I'm just giving you food for thought that folks yeah it's it's just you're not here in sweatpants even though they could be clean and fold nice sweatpants suit tie clean nice and so I I'm not sure who lives near there I'm not sure what it's backing that one building is is quite long so I'm not oriented to what it looks like but that's Jerry's Auto um and there may be things that are not required under Municipal Landing law they may just be required under what business practice would be and if it's representing you in suit white shirt red tie what might that look like there because it's a representation of the owner how that building looks is how the owner looks that's what I'm trying to just just put it I'll I'll be less gentle so uh we see a lot of warehouses as all of you in this room know and this is the ugliest one that I've seen since doing this so uh I think the applicant needs to spend some time sprucing this up a little bit to make it more aesthetically appealing thank you well said yeah your your message is clearly understood and we'll be back to you with revised architecture thank you do you have another any other we do not those are those are four we'd like to open it to the public my apologies and my apologies skyt K we do have sorry it's getting late I'm getting old our our last witness is Scott Kennel our traffic engineer Scott sorry Scott is the back he just likes hiding back there yeah I don't blame him yeah all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right Scott Kennel Ken Neel with McDon and Ray Associates located at 1431 Lakewood Road manisan I think we've seen you before board accept happy to have you thank you uh so my office prepared a traffic study dated December 8 2023 for the proposed development and uh as part of that analysis we utilize traffic counts that were conducted adjacent to the site in June of 2022 as well as uh December of 2023 um I'm sure as the board knows we do quite a few studies along this this location this quarter so uh we have a wealth of information uh with the existing traffic counts established as a base we then projected out to a design year consistent with the Ocean County planning board requirement which um puts us out to 2033 and we use the uh growth rates established by the New Jersey Department of Transportation we also included site specific traffic from eight other developments along this section of West Commodore and included that in our analysis uh as far as this type of use uh we projected it to generate approximately 42 peak hour trips in the morning and 48 trips in the afternoon and based on a review of traffic patterns in the area we expect traffic to arrive and depart uh 50% to and from the East and 50% to and from the West uh analyzing the future traffic conditions with the traffic growth and eight other developments and site specific traffic from this development we determined that the site access out to West commodor operate at uh good levels of service we're expecting a level service B I've testified previously that the target range is usually level service C to D were much better than that with the average vehicle delay of 14 seconds leaving the site onto West commodor so well within acceptable ranges uh there's been plenty of testimony regarding the site layout based on my review of the um site layout it's been designed to accommodate large wheel-based vehicles uh throughout the site to access the individual buildings and we're providing parking and excess of the um the ordinance uh so was and and as far as it relates to site access the one other key issue is available site distance or sight lines we have an excess of 600 feet East and West which exceeds the recommended standard So based on the design proposed the uh existing conditions and the level service it's my opinion that the site access can operate safely and efficiently uh that's basically it in a nutshell I know trying to keep it quick sounds good we should everybody had level service B any questions from board from our esteemed here gentlemen all right thank you now may we open now we've completed Our Testimony Madam chair Madam chair just just just two quick ones maybe three um for for wall um on right the bo Road um there's like a 13 and A2 foot jog in the right away yes we will make that dedication okay fine and I I can understand the um um the conflict with the reparan buffer and trying to provide emergency access from right to Bow but I would think there'd be something in the D regulations that would permit or allow encroachments and if we have the public safety you know Health and Welfare as one of the reasons I think you know the right to ro Bo Road um even with the repairing buffer is doable it's something I'll definitely look into um and um we know we know we don't have Curb in front of the units themselves but is the perimeter of the whole site is that does that have Curb yes okay and um are we consolidating or not I think Ron you would ask for waiver and that we no no we're requesting the consolidation we'd like to make the two lots into one okay fine all right thank you all right um let's open it to the public anyone who has anything to uh ask any of the professionals regarding their testimony you may come forward now seeing no one come forward I move the close to public uh cross examination second all in favor all all right now anyone who has anything to say uh any questions ask about this particular application seeing no one come forward I move the close to public portion all in favor I all right would you like to sum up for us Ju Just to be just to be clear just to be clear so this is only as to the testimony is for tonight the applicant will be coming back to uh for the additional uh request of the board made and we'll be waving uh time of decision correct that is correct okay do we have a date uh our next available date see September 23rd nothing before that because it's only really two or three little things we hope I mean I you know just a few it's just a few there're just a few little tweaks that we're looking for here no there's that's all right all the applications are really large and on every I mean we can put it but we might not get to it yeah there were a date that came open I would be willing to Ren notice if we can announce tonight the September 23rd but if the board and the board secretary would just keep us in mind we'd appreciate that we have grown Estates on July 15th it's a large one but I mean it's the only thing if we wanted to try to fit it in why don't we put you on First and yeah July because they wouldn't take as long July 15th July 15th so how about July 15th you'll be the first on but you have to promise that you will have all your business in ducks in a row there we we will we will do so so that way we can Mo you know finalize this and it's a much better dat we appreciate that and there will be no further notice is that correct no further notice it's uh it's only six we away so we need a motion to change the date please I'll make a motion to move July second uh second Sullivan all in favor I I okay good all right we're good thank you thank you all righty so all right block 21502 Lots one two three and four Maplehurst Avenue Warehouse Mr Feer nice suit Mr buffer he's a very classy guy well let see thank you we've trained him well good evening everybody um this is one of those small items that we're coming back for hopefully so we should hopefully be fairly quick as it's getting late in the evening um the last time we were Adam fefer turned on behalf of the applicant uh the last time we were here we presented um all of our planning and Engineering testimony um just to to remind the board uh we are see we are in the industrial Zone we are proposing a warehouse uh approximately 3,742 Square ft of Warehouse with 1,358 ft of office um as the board may recall um the site is is uh is is is particular in terms of that we front on three streets Maple Hurst Avenue um uh off of white and then there's a a paper Street um Cedar I think it's um Cedar Cedar Hurst thank you um and at the time the board had some concerns um the notes I had taken from from that meeting um one was as to the building height uh in the industrial Zone um industrial buildings can go up to 50 feet um the board had some concerns that that's really going to even though it's in it it is in the industrial Zone there are some residential houses in the area uh we did go back and we are able to reduce and you'll hear testimony um we are able to reduce that with no issue um additionally the board had some concern that Maple Hurst Avenue um is not a full Big Boy Street as as we call it um and the board had asked us to go back and speak with the township to see what uh if anything they have planned for it um so I I will have Brian Murphy here Brian Murphy did have um an opportunity to speak both with the town engineer with the town council's uh attorney um further conversations with u Mr C um and we I think we did come up with a resolution that we think um the board be hopeful that the board will be help will be in favor of um if I can have um of Mr Murphy come back up have him reworn in um and he'll talk about the particulars of what we're proposing on the road all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing about the truth I do all right please Brian Murphy M py 1856 Route 9 and Tom's River and principal at FW Associates board accepts accepts thank you thank you so we we met with the town engineer as requested to see if there's any anything on the books or any feasibility of improving uh the section of Belleview that would run from the intersection with Maple Hurst to White Street um and also obviously this section of maple Hurst along our Frontage uh there's nothing planned uh currently uh the board or the count Town attorney also weighed in that there's nothing looking to do anything currently in that area um I've expressed that with Mr CLE after we found that information uh and what we had discussed is possibly rather than let's say get more bang for your buck so to speak uh to do the improvements from Belleview for the section of Belleview from White down to Maplehurst and then along our Frontage of maple Hurst to widen that out to a full 28t um in lie of not doing the improvements along the remainder of bellw and the improvements for Cedar Hurst which runs on our south side which is a paper Street and we wouldn't be doing curbs and sidewalks on any of those areas uh we provided basic cost estimates to to Mr CLE to to kind of see how that this all jives obviously my client was very interested in those numbers as well and they're coming out pretty evenly uh so that's what we would ask for a waiver from doing that work on or paying into the funds for those surrounding roads and and and instead do the improvements on that section of Belleview from white to Maple Hurst and then do the section of maple Hurst along our Frontage again it would just be widening the pavement not doing curb and sidewalk uh and obviously any storm water that would be associated with that that sounds good any comments from the board I hope the goats across the street appreciate the world I visited them today they're really cute um I do I do like the way you've done that with the street it's a it's a really tight tight location tight and it's the middle of a neighborhood for goodness sakes yes I think it will be much much improved thank you for working with the town and I hope as you can see that these improvements are not only good for the town but I think also good for your business and uh it's good to see when we can all work together to make something better and thank you for working with us I love kumbayas pleasure Mr Clay um just so um U finalized construction plans will be provided for the road improvements that you're that you're proposing um and uh on bellw um I'll say this southern end of B you'd still be you would still need that access driveway off of off of B bellw yeah we we would look to do that basically as a as a driveway rather than a full Road uh because it's it's a 28 it's a full 28 foot Road along this area so we would propose basically just provide a provide an access driveway up there again looking half with looking for like say bang for the buck um sidewalk in this area um ordinance requires it um but maybe the board would um consider it waving sidewalk in there and taking that money and putting it into the road improvements from um to Belleview from white to the site yes that sounds reasonable does that sound reasonable to you PR everybody else think that sounds reasonable and practical thank you yes Mr Peters anything from you you're good to go yes let's just list out now that things have changed a little bit let's just list out the waivers that we're looking for uh so the record's clear sure uh we're looking for a waiver from providing curban sidewalk and Road improvements along CED our Frontage with Cedar Hurst which is the the paper Street to our South a waiver from providing curb and sidewalk along Maple Hurst Frontage but we would be be widening the roadway on on both sides and curb and sidewalk along Ong our Frontage with bellw and again we would be looking to go with probably a 14ot wide aisle there and we can make that one way if desired um just to uh get traffic in and there good and it's it's giving us what we've been looking for And discussing for so long to uh access an egress sure so that's that's very good so the board is amendable the one way I think he was just referring to make it one way I mean or or I can come out the 20 and keep it keep keep that two ways so none of the trative trailers come down but we we don't want to encourage using that really as it you don't want to encourage using that as a two-way entrance and egress I think one way is sufficient it it provides what we're looking for and that's a safe egress fair enough correct all agree okay that give you what you need that gives me what I need anything you'd like to wrap for us there should hung on here all night long and I guess just get to get on again on the record but so we would be widening Maple Hurst and and the bellw section from White Road down to our intersection happy day and I was down that road again today yeah it is tight so so we'd go we'd go out with no curbs and sidewalks there either but we would do storm order obviously because we' be required to we we probably need to open it for public else Mr just one other item um we do have we did submit a traffic impact analysis we don't we don't need I believe to put testimony on want to make sure it's into the record uh and it only improves with all the improvements that we're making so um and Mr kennel loves to get up but we're happy to just to Mark the mark the uh report it's in the it's in the record um and that's fine so with that you could all right anyone from the public who would like to uh address this um application please come forward seeing no one come forward I close the cross examination second all in favor I very good so let's we U how about a finish of comments we would St all we got to do public first and then I thought we just we just did cross examination cross examination all right anyone who has any comments on this particular project please feel free to come forward at this time seeing no one come forward I move the close the public portion all in favor I I all right now just a little close wrap up yes just uh just as as both the board has indicated again uh we welcome the comments these were good comments I think in the end this gets a much better application and a project for both the town and for the applicant we thank you for those comments we would agree to all the stipulations previously provided and and ask that the board vote in favor of the application will'll accept a [Music] motion I'm second that motion and thank you for working with us call please Mr brei yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes M Rose yes Mr Maro yes Mr shmer yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes yes and I I really think the neighbors will be appreciative of of what's been done and in the long run your building will be better off thank you so much I'll accept a motion motion to close all in favor I uh first was heler second was Rose