[Music] hell e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e please rise I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all good evening ladies and gent uh good evening ladies and gentlemen pursuant to njsa 10 col 4 the open public meetings act notice of this duly and regularly scheduled meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment has been published and posted in all appropriate locations roll call please Mr Hurley here Mr Stafford Smith here Mr book here Mr Hudak here miss Parnes here Mr Heyman here Dr Holstein here miss fres absent Miss Bradley here do we have any resolutions this evening no oh uh yes we do actually we have four of them all right so I'll go through them since Jeff is not here uh the first resolution this evening is resolution 20247 uh that is the resolution granting preliminary and final site plan approval on property located at 640 West Commodore Boulevard block 2701 lot 35.1 eligible to vote uh are Mr Hurley Mr Hudak Miss Parnes and Miss Bradley I need a motion in a second second roll call roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Bradley yes second resolution this evening is uh resolution uh and denying other requested variance relief on property located at 26 roundhill road block 10105 lot 9 eligible to vote are Mr book Mr Hurley Mr Hudak Mr Stafford Smith and Miss Bradley second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Bradley yes third resolution this evening is resolution 2024-the variance relief for an inground pool on an undersized lot on property located at 26 roundhill road block 10105 lot nine eligible to vote are Mr Hurley Mr Hudak Miss Parnes and Miss Bradley second Mr Hurley yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Bradley yes our final resolution this evening resolution number 2024-25 20t storage shed at 8 ft to sidey yard property line where 15 ft is required on property located at 9 ay road which is block 2801 Lot 23 eligible to vote are Mr book Mr Hudak Mr Stafford Smith Miss Parnes and Miss Bradley second roll call please Mr staer Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak Miss parnaz yes Miss bradling yes that concludes the resolutions for this evening do we have any minutes this evening no sorry I do have a voucher from Jackson Township for the recording secretary for this evening in the amount of $175 I need a motion and a second please to pay the voucher move to approve roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes M Mr Hudak yes Miss parnaz yes Mr Hyman yes Miss Bradley yes do we have any announcements this evening Mr Murphy uh none that I'm aware of okay so can we move forward with sparing and the professionals absolutely ladies and gentlemen if you would please raise your right hands do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do yes if you each please state your name and position with the board Evan Hill Board engineer Ernie Peters board planner Gina Tumalo assistant zoning officer thank you I believe there's no executive session for this evening Mr Murphy that's correct any matters for discussion no Madam chair and no administrative approvals that's correct all right so we're going to move forward to applicant number one Jonathan and Ruthie zelmanovich I apologize if I butchered your name variant 3498 block 6501 Lot 19 87 Bates Road good evening hi good evening will both of you be testifying this evening yes okay if you would each please raise your right hands do you solemnly affirm that the testimony information questions or comments you're about to present before the board or represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I if you would each please State your names your full names spell your last name uh and provide your affiliation to this application my name is Jonathan zalmanovich that's the last name is spelled zel m n oovi TCH and I am one of the home owners Ruth z manovich z l m n o v TC I'm a homeowner both Property Owners Property Owners yes very good thank you very much good okay um would you like to tell us what it is you'd like to do with your property yes I would um um we're here tonight seeking uh a variance to place a a swing set in the front yard where it is not permitted as opposed to the backyard where it would usually go um the reason we're looking to do this is because of the unique um Topography of the backyard which is sloped front to back and also quite um curvy and hilly from side to side I I believe we have some pictures here I don't know how to get them up on the board um when we looking into what it would take to modify the backyard to um create a space that would accommodate the swing set it became clear that it could quickly become pretty costly um retaining walls and things like that uh easily cost thousands of dollars could easily meet and exceed the cost of the swing set itself um additionally we have a sprinkler system on on the property both in the front and backyards and depending on where the best space you know typographically speaking would be to make alterations to the grade it would also potentially involve messing with the sprinkle system having to dig it up having to change things around and it's for that reason that we thought that maybe we could put it in the front um we don't believe that putting in the front affects anyone's lives in the neighborhood other than the appearance of it um which we believe is mitigated by several factors um the first is um I believe we also have a a survey on the the record that the our home is the the setback in the zone is 40 ft in the front yard um our home is way further than that it's over 120 ft set back from the front property line which creates this sort of expansive front yard you know not it's not the house is not enclosing the front yard you know up in very close to you when you're on the street and the proposed location of the swing set would actually be obviously there is no front set back for an accessory structure because they're not allowed but the the proposed location of the swing set would actually be beyond the 40 foot setback that a principal structure would require meaning that it's not if you're on the street it's not in your face it's not on on top of your head it is somewhat set back into the property additionally um between us and the adjacent neighbor that the swing that would be near there's a line of trees that well I have a different picture sorry of the um the front yard also which will show you that it's perfectly straight and long that picture also shows that there's a line of trees there by no means I don't mean to misrepresent it's not a you know a line of Hedges that creates perfect privacy but it is a formidable barrier between the properties uh which does create a sense of separation and a sense of privacy additionally that blue arrow is the location that we're looking to drop it into there's also sort of four or five trees surrounding that area which again obviously uh don't create privacy people can still see it but it does create sort of an area where it's sort of nestled into and it's somewhat obstructed so so as opposed to a swing said that's right on your head when you're on the street and is unobstructed totally um it would be sort of set back pretty far and nestled away um lastly I would just like to say that this is my first time doing anything like this so in preparation we we watched a couple of of meetings and I thought was very fascinating was that obviously the board spends a lot of time um analyzing the technical details of applications diagrams and site plans and all that minua which which you would expect but it jumped out of me that the board spends an equal amount of time um reading between the lines and looking sort of through the application and trying to visualize the reality of how how a property looks and functions and affects people the way it is and how this Zing ordinance affects it and how any changes would affect it and to that I would just like to say that uh We've we've been living here for for over three years we moved in December of 2020 and the the lived experience of being in this house which we love is that the backyard doesn't get used except when it snows in the winter for sledding the kids just don't play you can't run a few feet without hitting a hill without tumbling over it just doesn't get used and my wife uh who loves spending time love spending time outdoors with the children uh you know as soon as it gets warm enough until it gets too cold is outdoors in the front yard 95% of the time and kind of the the macro issue that we're having is that even if we could find a way to put the swing set in the back um if we could make get as small as possible and we could find an area that would require the least amount of grade work or landscaping and make it the cost reasonable it would still sort of be like superimposing and shoehorning a swing set into a backyard that doesn't lend itself to other uses and my wife just wants to be able to go outside and watch older children if she wants to push the baby in the swing and also make sure that our you know six-year-old who doesn't want to be in the swing she wants to be doing who knows what riding her bicycle in the front driveway just that she can have one place where she could watch everyone together and even if we could have the swing set the rest of the backyard the kids just just don't play in it um and for those reasons we are seeking relief from the board thank you Evan do you have any comments for us no I I like to actually thank the applicant that was very thorough concise and very methodical thank thank you uh it was I I enjoyed listening to it to be honest with you usually I'm stepping applicants through the process um the applicant hit all the major points that I was going to point out to the board um I I did not have the benefit of seeing the picture the pictures of the rear yard um but I would agree that the Topography is challenging to develop uh I would also agree that uh with the applicant's testimony that there are there is quite a bit of vegetation like mature vegetation within the front yard and also along the sidey yard between the adjacent lot it's not going to provide a 100% visual screen to the swing set um but it would it it it does help dampen the effect of it and kind of camouflage it a little bit U I'm interested to hear a little bit more about the swing set I mean you could there's obviously different variations in versions but if you could explain to the board what you have envisioned for the swing set sure I I meant to add that I realized that we did give in um a rendition of it which might be in the record but I I don't think we gave it any Dimensions at some point that's a rendition sideways um the dimensions of it are 26 feet in length um at its widest where the slide is it's 14 feet uh the rest of it where there's just a legs coming out it's eight feet front to back and I was told it's seven feet tall um the tower like when you're picking the swing set they give you different Tower sizes the tower height is supposed to be five feet so I don't I I would imagine it might be more than seven feet because I don't think a two foot sort of railing on top of the tower would be safe so I don't I think it might be a mistake but I would say it's 8 feet tall and so typically these types these These are considered temporary in nature these these types of improvements they do not require any footings or foundations uh I'm assuming you're not going to put a concrete slab underne it's might just maybe just leave it grass or mulch or something along those lines we really need mulch mulch okay um and I would agree that you don't need to do it wouldn't appear that you have to do any significant grading within this area probably just level out the playing surface with the mulch that you put down do we have any Mr Harley technically it is because even if even a shed if it's under 200 square foot doesn't require a foundation and it's still considered an accessory structure to the principal use uh I think historically um zoning permits have been applied for for recreational type uses swing sets and things most of them are in the backyard that's why we don't see them here at all although we have seen applications for this for front yards on a corner lot and we've seen one or two of those probably in the last several years it's it's not it doesn't require a footing and a foundation from a building permit from an IBC standpoint but it's still considered a structure from the in the zoning ordinance any additional questions for the applicant uh yes uh chair uh if it's considered a temporary structure uh once you give it a variance how does it run with the land the variant the variance runs with the land right so what you would be doing in this case is that the resolution if you were to vote favorably the resolution would be crafted to to indicate that it's it's for a swing set of a oximate Dimensions based on the you know as depicted in the exhibits located uh 15 ft from the property line 45 ft to the front yard front property line and that's all the Varian is for it's not for nobody can come in later and put a shed there or a garage it would be specific to this swing set in this location but it can be replaced with another swing set if if this one ends up your mic down use your microphone I can't it will end up in the uh eventually it'll it'll be removed because it'll fall apart and uh does that mean anybody can come along who buys the house or lives in the house uh put another set in similar to this as long as it's consistent with the approval that was granted yes okay okay thank you to the applicant uh no matter how well hidden the swing set is word will get out to the neighborhood how how do you prevent kids coming there and playing on the swing set and and all the kids just doing what they want to do when you're not home you know preventing an accident from happening I don't I don't have a great answer to that other than everyone swing sets in their backyards are also open all the time and the same danger exists that they're not home okay so in the neighborhood you you're playing with the live I think M Mr hofstein I Mr hofstein if I may I the applicant did testify that they they currently use their front yard area as their primary play area already that doesn't require a variance they can put zip lines up in the trees they could climb the trees they could do whatever they want in their front yard and play whether it's their kids or all of the kids in the neighborhood um the back and I would agree that the backyard is not conducive although it could be a lot of fun when they get older it's not conducive to for smaller children playing in the rear yard I just wanted to mention I know it has nothing nothing to do with the variance um just out of curiosity um have have you had anybody look at the back to see if you can add fill or remove some some of the uh uh lawn there and flatten it out or put in a platform where you can put this structure and keep it in the backyard we had we had some general discussions and it it seemed like it was going to be costly and prohibitive to do that's why we were came here but you could do it if you wanted to yes okay any additional questions for the applicant through the chair your survey shows a a shed in the back a massive shed in the back still there yes yes what's the size of it what are the dimensions of the sh I don't know off hand it's very tall um I I'd be guessing the exact length and width in ter can you Anthony can you bring up the picture of the backyard please so from this Viewpoint Are you standing in front of the shed looking at the back of the house I didn't take the picture but that's what it appears like how much farther back is the sh given that perspective it looks like your ground starts to level as you go back towards that sh and the only real the only real issue so to speak that's debatable are those two Ms so it looks like it flattens out is it not is my perspective incorrect I would agree it it does look like it flattens out and it does flatten out relative to those Mounds I would say this picture was not taken for the purpose of this hearing this is from the zill listing of the house which is still up which means it was taken presumably to try to enhance the attractiveness of the property and try to to minimize the appearance of the slope meaning to say that it's tricky to see slope in pictures and you're right it definitely is less sloped than those Mounds but it still is sloped and I believe that it might be more sloped than the picture makes it appear I would also say slow slow so these are not your pictures these are Z pictur this is these are publicly available pictures on Zillow yeah um behind ite just for the purpose of the record um do these photographs accurately accurately depict the current um yes uh situation in your backyard yes I mean there might be you know like the lawn chairs might be gone or the flowers on the deck but nothing significant is different about the backyard so you're just using these to demonstrate to the board the topography but these really aren't evidence correct I guess so okay the chair sorry I just one second I did go sorry I did go to your property I didn't go all the way in the backyard CU I don't want anybody think I was trespassing however I did peek enough it does Mr book slop it does level off some very close to the shed but this is very accurate I did look at the pictures online as well cuz I didn't want to go all the way in the backyard but it is very accurate I was gonna I was gonna add also that that even if that place right in front of the shed also so it would be blocking the shed so I just wanted to say that I did go to the backyard and to check it um and right in front of the shed itself it does flatten out but it would have to be put right in front of the shed blocking the entrance and exit to the shed which would then take away from the shed itself but definitely it is flat right there but it's not like you could really put it there but uh the act the actual picture is the way it is currently I I was not intending to you know bring something that doesn't represent the uh current state I'm was not a photographer and they were there Mr Hurley did you have something else you want to add any additional questions or comments just have a question pres and I guess it's the Prof um if we were to vote this could others come before us say well you did it for this and then we have yard so I'll give you my quick engineering response based on my experience here the answer is no every application has to has to come every application that comes before you has to stand its on its own merits for the U for the same reason why we haven't had people come in and say well you gave a you gave a variance for this corner lot I am a corner lot they're right we we don't see that you're not setting any precedent because you're only acting on this application only and none others you're not creating policy here yeah yeah I I go ahead as part of the C variant relief they've provided testimony that shows that they have existing topographic conditions that uniquely affect effect this specific piece of property so it's sort of black letter law that they've shown you situations that affect their particular piece of property and limit what they can and can't do so from that perspective they've provided the proofs if the board were to act affirmatively um we've talked about the idea that it's a structure whether it's temporary or not um it's a structure you could pick it up you know there's as much likelihood of someone picking it up and putting it in the backyard is picking it up and putting it in a truck it's a temporary structure um the issue that this board often deals with is is it safe right if someone came in the brookwoods where there's a 35 foot front yard setback and tried to put one in the front it'd be 10 foot off the sidewalk here it's 100 feet from the 50 ft from the street correct correct and it's wooded um so the applicants have come in and recognized that or Recon to the board it's not a safety concern for them now while these can be an attractive nuisance um they've indicated that they already used that portion of their yard for recreational purposes so the only item that I might bring up to the board is the idea that there shouldn't be any expansion of this area this shouldn't grow we should end up with Timber to size 10 ft around it and all of a sudden we have Place surfaces and then a 4ft fence and then we decide to put a little gazebo out front a sitting area you know this accessory structure requires a variance they come back for anything else requires them to stop back here again pay the fees come in visit their neighbors and go through the process again they've provided testimony I think that would support the request for the variant I think there should it should be recognized that there probably is isn't going to be the same argument to expand it into your real backyard putting a deck putting a gazebo um running water and you know putting a wet bar out front those sorts of things but I do think that from the and I'll let Ryan speak to this I do think they've given the testimony that's set forth in the municipal land use law in order to Grant the SE variant for the board yeah I mean uh from my perspective um I Echo everything that both Evan and Ernie placed on the record the C1 variance criteria which is the hardship uh which is the hardship variance found njsa 40 colon 55d -7c uh one is the hardship variance and and that states um that if there are you know unique topographic features um to to a property we can grant a variance um uh to alleviate the hardship uh the the constraints caused by the hardship um I I Echo Ernie sentiments I think that we've established that the topographic features of the backyard are such that um without great length and great expense um can be corrected and and they have a perfectly you know flat good front yard where they again um ask this for the record just so I have Clarity you're not requesting any other setback variances or things like that correct no side yard setbacks no no front yard setbacks correct correct so again they're complying to the best of the ability with the um with the bulk requirements in the zone um and again due to the fact that the the backyard is is very clearly sloped and very clearly has several I would characterize as mediumsized Hills you're not going to be able to put a put a play set back there so so from my perspective they've satisfied um you know the C1 U variance criteria uh the only consideration is what are the detriments and as Ernie um had uh used a a fancy legal term attractive nuisance um you know that that is a consideration that the board wants to to take into account um you know can we condition anything to minimize uh that potential detriment um but again is that detriment really substantial in nature and that's really what the the statute requires is that you know the detriment itself has to be substantial in nature um it can't just be a potential detriment um so that's something the board would have to weigh um also does it impact the Zone plan and the Zone ordinance um you know again that's something the board has to weigh so um in my opinion that the the applicant has satisfied the positive criteria for C1 variant through the chair yes Mr B councel I I I understand what you're saying and it seems like it should be such a little thing you know they want to put a nice swing out in the front yard but you know we go through these applications for hardship variances and we try to apply what the code says to to everybody across the board you know maybe I've got the wrong reading but I pulled up the C1 variance and you and if I read it wrong Tom me but this is this is the wording that I that I that I read um this is uh 40 call 55 d-7 C where quote a by reason of exceptional narrow that's the word in the in the code exceptional narrowness shallowness or shape of a specific piece of property b or by reason of exceptional topographic conditions or physical features uniquely affecting a specific piece of property or C by reason of an extraordinary and exceptional situation uniquely affecting a specific piece of property or the structure lawfully existing thereon the strict application of any regulations would result in Peculiar and exceptional practical difficulties too or exceptional and undue hardship upon the developer such property close quote those parameters are are are are fairly significant if I understand the hardship statute correctly I mean it might it might inhibit their ability to use the rear of the property to the extent they want to but we don't see measurements out there we don't see Stakes or anything to that effect out there it shows that that there's no conceivable way that that could be put out there and and comply with our statute so you know I'm struggling with that on one side I just want to say yeah absolutely don't put that thing out in your front yard but do do we do the evaluation different when we're looking at hardship because this is you know very nice couple they have a beautiful family it's a beautiful piece of property and they just want to enjoy the front y with their kids or not so that's my struggle again you know uh Mr book I'm not going to debate the statutory language with you that is what the statute says just as you read it into the record so yes I mean the the idea that it's exceptional uh you know uh in in in its topographic features that's something the board has to make a determination on again this is a case-by case basis we can see the property we can see what it looks like based upon the photographs um that were uh submitted by the applicant uh to to give us an example of what they're what they're they're referring to when they talk about the topographic conditions whether or not that's exceptional um to the extent that it's permitted by Statute that's up to the board I can't I can't I can't weigh in on that for the chair for the chair so I I think I've told the board this over the years many times Engineers can design just about anything to work right it may not be the prettiest thing and might not be the most practical but we could always design some design something to work and in this case I think you have to go to what would a reasonable person expect to do to put in a I don't know maybe a $2,000 swing set maybe $1,000 whatever it is let's say it's a $2,000 swing set if a reason if if somebody had to come in and regrade their backyard redo their sprinkler system install fill restore all that ground surface from the from from the front to the back plus possibly an asphalt driveway that got would have gotten chewed up from all that fill and heavy equipment coming in um you know you're talking about spending five6 $7,000 for $1,000 or $2,000 sprinkler um playet so it goes to that reasonable person test in my mind as an engineer what is it reasonable for me it and I go what I do it would I spend all that money to put $1,000 spring swing set in I don't have kids so I wouldn't do it anyway but if I did I most likely wouldn't do it either um so now if how that plays to the exceptional aspect of things I think that I think that's in my mind that's how I reconcile what's exceptional versus what's practical and that's just food for thought for the board to entertain yes Mr [Music] Hurley [Music] now it's on I'm having difficulty believing this is a structure quite frankly uh I I I accept you know our our Consultants telling us it is under under the under the ordinance but I mean if if someone was building you know a couple of concrete elephants on the entrance to the to the property I can see that that might be a structure but you know a something that's temporary like a like a a playset to compel the residents to come to ask for a variance to me does not make a lot of sense I mean it's something that can be moved and we're going to say okay it has to be in this location because that's where you told it told us it's going to be and it has to stay there now and forever you is um tough for me to swallow a little bit I mean if I wanted to put up a a let's say there's a holiday and I wanted to put up a a statue or I'll call it a statue maybe three feet high four feet high that I just put in the ground that's a is that a structure that I need to get a variance before I do that it it sounds a little difficult to me so I you know it's just a matter of yes I whether it's a C1 or a C2 I don't even think they should be here I don't even think they have to be here but having said that I guess uh they're here and we we're told that they have to be here so you know whether whether it it meets the hardship uh standards or not it meets the hard standards in the rear yard if they were to put it in the rear yard I can understand that it doesn't meet the standard for the front yard for C1 for C2 then it becomes and as as Mr Hill indicated you know it becomes is it reasonable reasonable is always a question of fact I've met a lot of unreasonable people in my life um but you know uh something like this I think it just creates a a different kind of a problem for us quite frankly I'm I'm I'm in favor of granting this variance I just my problem is I don't even think they should be here Madam chair just for the record um the reason the applications here is because it was denied a zoning permit by the zoning officer and the zoning officer on the front of your application clearly states that they're proposing an accessory structure so the determination was made by the zoning officer right here and I speak the structures defined in the in the code whether or not we agree with it yes this could in theory be a temporary structure we don't deal with that unfortunately in the code the code defines a structure and Jeff said you're putting an accessory structure in the front yard that's the reason the application's here just through the chair one one just to clear something up uh when when you're asking for a hard trip variance uh basically it should be the physical condition of the property and uh supposedly personal hardship finances and otherwise don't come into play is that true personal finances should not come into play but the cost to do something could so whether or not they can afford to do it that's one thing it's it's the what what the reasonable the reasonable in this test to me is if I'm going to put in $1,000 worth of play equipment would a reasonable person spend $5 to $8,000 in order to do that that's the reasonableness test not whether they can afford it but whether or not it's reasonable there's a difference there Dr hosin um as far as the uniqueness and characteristics of the lot shape uh shape comes into play topography comes into play ground surface could could always come into play in certain instances but those are characteristics that we would have evaluate on a lot by Lop basis regardless of the improvements that are proposed thank you I just wanted to clear that up and because he had mentioned that uh he didn't look into how much it would cost him to do look looking at at your backyard it looks like a great golf Fairway in the backyard for the bunkers M pares um I think to Echo Mr Hurley's sentiments about um Mr Hurley said the if you look at the backyard it it clearly um it satisfies the hardship criteria of unique topography um so uh and I think what uh our attorney said is you know then we if it satisfies the hardship um we have to look at well are there any negative impacts I think the you know having having a play set in the front yard is uh very uncommon I don't think you you know see it anywhere um but judging by the fact that it's nestled you know in a wooded area set back um to me as well it seems like it it it it kind of meets that uh criteria those are my thoughts any additional questions or comments I'm going to open this to public form if anybody would like to come forward and make a comment regarding this application seeing no one come forward I'm going to post close public forum board it's up to ask for discussion and a motion if possible Madam chair yes I'd like to move to approve second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr Buck yes Mr Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss Bradley yes congratulations your variance has been granted thank you very much thank you good evening we are going to move forward to applicant number two Shan and Kyrie Murphy variant 3500 block 1302 lot 13 842 heisen Road good evening good evening if you would please raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments say you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if you would please state your name spell your last uh and provide your affiliation to this application my name is Shawn Murphy uh M py I am the current homeowner my wife is out of town right now and Mr Murphy why don't you tell the board what it is you're trying to do with your property um basically make a lot of General improvements uh and add um kind of a hobby space work space for myself um currently next to me and behind me are two paper streets uh which is why I'm here uh normally there would be a 15t setback for the side of my property back of my property um because of the paper streets it's listed as a front yard on three sides um all of that is wooded uh never been developed doesn't seem like it will be by the township all properties around me are accessible from other roads so um what I'd like to do is is build some storage um I've done a lot of blacksmithing and iron work in the past I like to do that as a hobby uh some things I want to build for my own property um things to improve the house um mainly want the workshop so that I can actually improve my own house and uh get it a little more up to parts 30 years old and it hasn't really been updated yet so I like to do that myself um but I can't do it without the space to do it I also don't have a garage to park my vehicles in which is why I'm asking for the attached garage on the house as well so um mainly that's that's the reason I'm here um we also have have pets and I want to make sure my dog stays in the yard which is the reason for the fence just to get everything on the record be clear because it's a lot on your applications just bear with my questions so the first thing listed is the six foot solid fence proposed in the front yard area where it's permitted this is facing heisen and the side to gber correct it's it's facing the the wooden fence is facing heisen Road um there is already a the exact same fence that I will mimic um from my house to the neighbor's property on the other side um so I just want to continue that look uh to where the chain link would start to enclose the rest of the backyard which I don't want to encroach on that um 10t uh easement so I'm keeping the fence within that 10 ft off the property line so that I'm not on that conservation easement all right and then the um I know you also mentioned the attached garage to the house that's the 26x 26 by1 19 correct yes ma'am okay um like I said it's a lot so I just want to make sure I understand I did look at the property so I just want to make sure I have everything yeah the the reason I list 19 ft is um the house is on a pretty good grade um as you can tell from this picture here I took it from across the street so you can see the front yard is similar to theirs very wooded um the house is a full 160 ft off the actual white line of the road um the uh attached garage would actually uh level down a little from the front porch about 3 to 4 feet um I haven't gotten engineered drawings or anything yet but this is I once the zoning is done then I'll go with that step I want to make sure I'm approve before I spend all the money on that obviously but um the reason for the 12T ceiling is so that I actually mimic the ceiling of the house so that I can make a small mud room in that garage and have an entrance directly into the house is is the overall plan all right and then um the above ground pool uh why don't you tell us a little bit about that I know there's an existing deck correct yes the existing deck is the one that uh says first floor deck attached to the house um there's a couple pictures of the backyard you could probably see it the proposed deck would just be at pool level um I just want to do the above ground pool I don't feel like I need the expense of an inground pool and uh the wiring and um C is already there uh the previous homeowners had an above ground pool and it was demolished before I bought the house um so my idea was to put another one in and actually have a nice area around it CU my wife likes to sunbathe and the pole barn is the detached garage yes ma'am that's going to be the work the workshop you mentioned that's correct so that will have full Electric I'll do a foundation and pour slab for that and why don't you tell us a little bit about I'm sorry well it won't need a foundation I guess if it's a pole barn but I will put a slab inside of it so I'm sorry I misspoke so for the chair can I ask a question regarding the Pole Barn location uh you know the the reason why the pole barn actually the reason why most of these all these variances are required is because of the front yard between the existing dwelling and gomberg Avenue that that's the front yard that that's being improved within you you you could conceivably move one it appears you could conceivably move the pole barn and even the Q Hut further off gomberg Avenue so you don't need a variance for those is there a reason why um Can can you explain to the board why you maybe can't move them further in your yard um honestly it's uh matter of preference um there's no reason I can't specifically Do It um I am trying to keep them um as far away from my neighbor's property um just for one noise and two just consideration um I also as I stated um in my opening I don't believe that gomberg Avenue is ever going to be a developed Street um my backup as as uh that statement would be to request that the um Township vacates the property which I know I I know what proper steps I have to take with that um so that that's cons to answer your question it's more personal preference so I'm not taking up more of my backyard there's already a swing set actually um you can see in that picture where that building would go not that I can't move that um but it's just Madam chair sirry I apologize do this to you there's an application on the April 17th agenda for Marcy janora block 1401 lot 11 on gomberg Avenue in the R1 Zone seeking a variance to construct a single family dwelling so someone is I don't know where that is in relationship that's across the street that is an already developed Street that's a different block um completely different set of lots does not neighbor in order for them to unless they front out on heis they have to extend a road no sir okay that that is behind um 83 835 heisen I believe um I did look both of those up um and I I don't have uh the image but I did download the tax map on my phone that is a currently developed Dead End Road across the street from heis from my house thank you you're welcome any questions for the applicant Mr Hurley Mr Murphy I'm just I'm just uh curious about the garage that you want to attach it's going to be attached to the home yes sir is the is it going to have an appearance similar to that of the home what's your what is your intention there that's exactly my intention um I intend to make it look as if the garage was always part of the house I don't want to have a walkway to it I want it to share the wall of the current exterior wall of the house and as I said actually have a walk-in entrance into the living room of the house how about the siding will will it match the siding on the house I'm going to get the whole house resided at at the time I do the garage along with the roof thank you you're welcome through the chair yes could be I missed it uh you also have on here a wood shed with a deck uh yeah the um that current wood shed that you see I will just relocate to the Lo the location on this um variance request so that's getting rid variance also yes sir s say that again so that's going to be requiring a separate variance they're moving this wood shed from currently the center of the backyard to the side part of part of my reason for doing that if you don't mind um is because I do just want to put a chainlink fence up along this side um I you can't see them in this picture but um roughly where those metal U pieces that you see in this picture that is the Q Hut I I do already own it um I just have not put it up yet obviously because of this um so that wood shed would sit roughly where those are sort of as also a visual block of the pool from the neighbors that you can see through the woods there um and it would also block visually um the view of the pool from the road because there's a curve there and the traffic kind of comes towards the house before it turns so the shed itself you technically you don't really need you're saying you're just using it as to block the pool I mean you are you're you're constructing a you want to construct a garage which has plenty of space in it and then again you have a pole barn which also and then an additional shed I mean I'm I'm looking at it as an additional shed not it's existing because it's being put into that spot so you're saying is that you're using that shed as well that's necessary or uh my thought process on that was um any pool chemicals any um things that would be needed uh for the the pool toys things like that would be kept in that specific shed since it was closest to the pool got it okay thank you read chair yes Mr hofstein um on one of the maps the the one where you have where you're moving the shed you indicate that there's a driveway and on the map with all the yellow o override you don't have it are are you planning on a separate entrance to the pole bun and the other building um an entrance of comberg I'm not sure exactly what the original survey is what you're referring to I don't know Asos to say looks like something that was drawn up here was it one that I had drawn initially before I had to get could be I I don't know it looks like it's probably from you my okay so I think to answer your question um my thought process is to yes use that area of gomberg there there's enough area that I would be able to drive around to the side of my yard and have a 12T gate to be able to if I had to pull a truck to that uh Pole Barn in the back um that that was my thought process uh so I I don't know if that answers your question but that space I would do some sort of a uh a gravel or something um to where I wouldn't be driving on my my grass and it would still be a permeable surface so I would not have to put pavement or concrete there is I'm not sure if I answered what you were asking Mr Hill that is that fine what he's discussing so gomberg Avenue is an unimproved Road um is considered unimproved Road uh if if it's if it's providing uh if it's providing an access to the structures in the backyard there's no ordinance that says he can't do that I'm not aware of any of the ordinances that would require anything beyond just a gravel driveway since there's no curbing there's no sidewalk that that kind of thing if he was proposing another access point onto heisen road then I'd say it rises to the level of having to meet the driveway standards uh for a single family home but in this case um I don't see that be I don't see that being necessary this is more of a temporary use kind of thing not an everyday use um I also look at as this too it's from a from a safety emergency and a safety perspective it's actually advantageous to have some type of surface down that way if if if he gets hurt in his garage and has to call 911 an ambulance can pull right up to it right so let's hope that doesn't happen but obviously there's there's some safety issues there too okay thank you Mr Hudak the um on the drawing the building that's marked Q hug is that really 43 feet to the peak 43 13 feet 13t okay looks like a 43 in my my no sir I I actually plan to um the face of that building I plan to frame out to look like a regular garage as well to match the house so it doesn't just look like a metal arched building sitting in the middle of yard from the front yeah the the peak of that I plan to be about 13 the actual Q Hut itself is only about 12 yeah you at it any additional questions or comments for the applicant Mr Hill Mr Peters any comments chair I just just one clarification he brought up the 12T opening for a fence there is a fence or there's no fence there currently currently there's no fence and you're proposing a fence yes I missed that the the one in the front for six feet and the one in the back for 5T saying that's all the fence also that's 5 foot or six foot the the chain link around the remainder of the property would be a 5 foot chain link fence all right thank you any additional questions or comments okay I'm going to open this to the uh public anyone wishing to make comment please feel free to come forward at this time seeing no one come forward I'm going to close public session board it's up to us for discussion and a motion please mam CHL for purpose of discussion I'll make a motion to approve the application okay we have a motion in a second well for purpose of discussion um I I went and visited the site I went again today in the rain and uh I've got to say that looking looking at the at the survey and the plan that's been provided and looking at the site itself at my first reaction when I saw the application was this is overburdening this piece of property um I'm having some difficulty with the proofs that are required here for purposes uh of the the utilization and the the why it's necessary I can understand the garage attached to the house I don't have any problem with that I understand that um it's going to match the home it'll improve the character at least the the aesthetic character of of the area no question about that that that's a positive uh as far as the the necessity and I know necessity is not an issue here um but it it just seems like it's my my first reaction I said is overburdening the site but then I went to look at the property itself and I looked at the property and you got these paper streets nearby it's a unique uh size piece of property it did not seem that even with the the addition that is being proposed that it that it has a negative impact on the character of that neighborhood U maybe if there's other types of development proposed in the area that might change my mind but I haven't seen any I haven't heard of any so um as I said before I think for purposes of discussion I had I had initial problems because of overburdening the site but then looking at the area itself it seems to be in character with the neighborhood uh so that kind of that concern has has been taken away as far as I'm concerned those those are basically my comments yes right but he put when he made the motion said it was for discussion she was just making backup comments yeah it's perfectly acceptable to discuss the motion while it's pending I was trying to understand the I mean every one of these things are all the front yard or side yard they still have that issue with it being you know requiring the variance so what what is the justification um to approve them even though it's only a paper Street I mean if right now we do have a paper Street and down the road the town does decide to develop and then it is developed then you have them existing there and they're all like we're saying you know they're coming before us for those variances so I'm just trying to understand justification for them so even though the lot is very big and it could fit it I don't I mean you know the applicant said why they wouldn't want the shed um or the pole barn to the right side of the property rather than the left towards the neighbor I think that if that takes away a variance it should be moved although the applicant doesn't want that but if there's no um land use reason to specifically have it on the left side where it requires the variance I don't see why it shouldn't be put on the right side I'm going to respectfully disagree um with that I think it's um we've had in my time on the board we've had where we've asked applicants to move things or change their plans um to accommodate the neighbor so I I kind of applaud the applicant for even thinking of that because again I I was kind of like Mr Hurley this application was a bit overwhelming at first glance and you're kind of like whoa this is a lot so I had all these little notes written down drove to your house I'm looking around I'm like well no this is a lot bigger than I thought it was a little confusing these paper streets I see you know the side of the house and I'm like tried to get around to the back to figure out how do you get to this other Street um had to get a little education for Mr Peters right um but I don't think it's overburdening the property but I do applaud the applicant for taking into consideration to the fact that he does and will have a neighbor on that side where even if at some point Jackson decides to develop gunberg near him or it that's still just a street and not a neighbor that he would could potentially be affecting yes ma'am I I also if if I might add um plan to not just have this look like a pole barn in the end um after I get a little use out of it and hopefully save up a little more more more money after doing all this match the house also I I totally I totally agree with your you know what you want to do and I understand that I'm I I get it I'm just trying to you know from the justification standpoint try to understand yes I do understand um as you can see with the pictures my property is also very wooded so to move these buildings I have to take down a lot more trees I'm trying to also avoid that right now I I I came down to the property um and I saw that I saw you do have a bunch of trees that are marked to be taken down I'm not sure what those are those I have applied for tree permit um has been approved I haven't put the deposit down for escrow yet but I do plan to replant got it okay thank you you're welcome like I'd like to make one other observation gumberg Avenue is an unimproved Street it's a paper Street um there's always the possibility that that paper Street um that the it could be vacated by by the municipality which means that Mr Murphy would get half of the width of that road which would be additional 25 ft and if that were to occur and I understand that you know that may or may not be a possibility I have seen it done in the past um and if it were vacated each property owner on each side gets gets a half of that that piece of property gets deed to them um if that were to occur he probably wouldn't need the variances the the bulk variances in in any regard just a comment just a passing thought any other questions or comments for the discussion okay Elizabeth uh roll call please because we have a motion in a second to approve Mr Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Mr hman no Miss Bradley yes congratulations your variant has been approved thank you [Music] we are going to move on to applicant number three speos forgive me vahos preliminary final site plan 831 had previous approved use variants 3350 this is block 2201 lot 52 643 Herman Road Madam chairman members of the board Vince howerin from Freehold representing the applicant he that way you're not like you can sit down use those this was not working there we go thank [Music] you I'm sorry were you able to hear is this working yeah you sit down you want to sit you want to stand you want to no I'll sit actually my only witness tonight is John Ponka who's an engineer he's testified before on this application I know there are new members that the board judge Hurley I know you were here last time I Know Carl book was I think a couple of the rest of you uh do you want me to have him have him swar you would thank you for raising your right hand do you solemly swear affirm that testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if you would please state your name uh provide your credentials and your affiliation John J conka p l oos k n Ka professional engineer professional planner melpa New Jersey uh I'm the president of concept engineering I've been the president for about 50 some years I've appeared before this board boards in melin freeh hole Colts Neck for the last 50 years so this board accepts your credentials thank you thank you John would you briefly describe the status of the application we have a variance approval tell us about the site plan yeah the the property at at 6 um 43 Herman Road is in the U commercial Zone commercial industrial LM light industrial district and it's been approved by this board in 200 22 for a use variance for a storage of equipment and buildings on the property um trailers rather the U at that time we went through most of the application and and the professionals reports and we ended up with I think um Mr Hurley who was on TV asking for a plan that showed how we would uh provide for storage of the equipment and vehicles on the property so that we came back to the board last year with a revised drawings um because the agenda was Heavy we finally got to a hearing tonight and the applicant again is to there's a single family house on the property which was non-conforming to the zone that's being used as an office and then we're doing U Storage of facilities such as um scissor lifts pickup trucks tagalong trailers box trucks dump trucks box trailers and bobcats and they're being stored behind the building which is a which is the former house and they're being and there's four uh eight by 40t trailers for storage of equipment on both sides of the property so that was the plan that was presented we received the use variants to do this and we said we had to come back for site plan VAR site plan approval so we're back tonight with that other sketch can you show the other sketch the sheet number two no it's it's that's it out there no there's another there's another sketch that shows was the uh layout of the equipment I sent onor so while while the engineer is taking his are getting his materials uh just there are members on this board that did not hear this application originally the plans that are in front of you are um are the engineering plans which to be honest with you most of this information was on the prior plans as well for the for the variants it just required some additional detailing but as as far as where things are and what what's proposed on these plans those are consistent with the variance approval already granted so we're not here to re-evaluate whether or not it's okay to have proposed pavement on the side of the home in that location that was granted as part of the variance process because that's where it was depicted before they've provided some additional details engineering details to satisfy our comments in the from that process we're not here to re-evaluate whether or not the trailers are in the appropriate spot those already have variances we already granted Vari variances for those they are what what they did come back to because this was a condition of the variance approval they came back they agreed to provide a more detailed plan at site plan stage to show the various types of contractor vehicles that are going to be stored within the gravel area in the rear yard and that was provided to us as an exhibit which is up on the screen now so this this is the first time this board is seeing this level of detail but this area in general is allowed you granted the variant previously for the storage of vehicles I I would simply add Evan that the property is commercial it has commercial to the right has commercial to the left has has a commercial facility behind it which we discussed before which is Zone residential but it's a commercial building in the back there and parking behind us so we're all surrounded by commercial we did agree to uh pay Into The Pedestrian fund for the sidewalking curb that's not being installed and we met the stormw requirements um and we're going to meet I'm going to meet with chrie Spiro the landscape uh person uh from the board she's on vacation right now to go over what she needs us to do and we'll work with her as I've done for the last 50 years to come by come back to your office and Ernie's office to show what we're going to do for her there's no signage here there's and there's we're not going to exceed the height of 10t uh bulk storage uh so we're respectfully requesting approval of the site plan for the chair yes okay um I guess I don't want I don't want you to this is not meant to provide testimony on beh of the applicant but it's meant to provide background to the members here who who aren't familiar with the application um the the applicant is proposing some additional impervious cover cover via additional parking spaces the applicant had agreed during the variance approval process uh to provide storm waterer management measures for this site even though what they were proposing didn't rise to that level the threshold of requiring it and the reason for that was the prior site owner put a lot of gravel down also did some improvements out here but if you look at the site in its totalitar now some storm water measurements should be installed and the applicant has agreed to do that so uh the applicant's making up for other people not doing what they should have done in the past so that's a good thing uh the rear of the property is going to is going to be a gravel storage yard for vehicles for contractor storage U if I recall the testimony correctly it was a this was not to be leased out to others this was a single occupant business use am I correct that's correct that's correct and the activity level here is very limited usually there's two three four five times a week someone comes in gets a piece of will get some tools and leaves so there's no no one in the in the uh office all the time it's very very uh lightly managed right so this entire site is going to be essentially owner occupied there's no additional tenants there's no leasing of space this is a single commercial use surrounded by existing commercial uses even though it's a residential Zone uh we did ask for some of the um we did ask for some additional like I said storm water management measures which they've agreed to install uh we've asked them to make sure to uh inspect and verify the condition of the existing septic system and if anything needs to be done to that any further improvements need to be done to that they would coordinate that through the Ocean County Board of Health as part of resolution compliance um we've asked them about uh sight lighting U I don't recall are you proposing you're not proposing any sight lighting at this point just security lighting lighting no no s lighting and this goes back to the hours of operation testimony which was prided previously which was U I don't have the exact numbers but it was a it was a daytime business use it's not a nighttime business use so there was no public that was going to be no public necessarily visiting the site in in off hours but all in all yes we did generate a letter dated February 15th I've spoken to the engineer and we've had correspondents they've agreed uh to comply with with all the comments in the letter A lot of them are carryover comments from the the use variants hearing um and and from an engineering perspective I'm satisfied that they've met the conditions of the use variance application which was they would come back file a preliminary final site plan application which would address the board's concerns during that stage I just have a question for clarification purposes I read the resol the prior resolution we I I just want to clarify we still the board still needs to Grant the lot area and bulk variances isn't that correct I think only the D variance relief was was I'll leave this to the player my understanding was that the C variances would have been subsumed with the with they should have been but that's not the way the resolution reads okay then I guess the I guess the plary final site plan resolution ution if the board were to approve it should just reinforce that I I think that's appropriate for the resolution that's why I'm asking Mr Peters I think Mr Peters I'm going to direct you to give me one second page five of your report we've listed the variances um I don't recall whether or not the board dealt with them at the last hearing if they did if you'd speak into I having trouble hearing you paron if You' speak into the mic I don't have a copy of the original resolution for the use variants I would have thought that it would have subsumed the existing conditions if it does not then this would still be an existing undersized lot yeah and if through an abundance of ction we decide that they need to get these variances now then they're going to need to give testimony with regards to what's listed in our report here's I'm going to read the paragraphs at least that indicate to me that they were for whatever reason they were not subsumed at the time paragraph four of the resolution in the whereas clausus States the applicant seeks D variance approval to peric conversion of Prior single family dwelling into contractor's office and construction yard with outdoor storage paragraph six says the board did not address the need for any further variances instead requiring application to appear before the board for a subsequent site plan application to address the use and design of the site in accord with the testimony and evidence presented and the conditions imposed by the board the resolution of approval that the board granted on the 16th day of February 2022 that the applicant's request for variances plural is hereby approved subject to the applicant's compliance with the conditions and stipulations set forth below uh that's what the resolution said um the uh the variances there were six pre-existing variances of lot Frontage with area Etc and then there are four variances for the uh I think for the four trailers that are being used for storage and because the size of the lot is less than one acre the zoning is 3 acres so the amount of area available is the Minimus so we ask for the variances to leave a spot in the middle to have the storage of the vehicles uh and equipment that you see on that plan in front of you so the it's a c variance for hardship because of the undersized lot in the 3 Acre Zone and I thought that was granted before but that's basically um the issue that the lot is small and the Lots next door to us on the right or left are also one acre so this is a common problem with the narrowness of the lot in the zoning being only so many feet wide where 300 is required respectively yeah again from a legal perspective I take no issue with the you know the variances requested uh specifically C variances but I can tell you right now that based upon my reading of the resolution they were not granted at the time of the D variance approval so I just wanted to make that clear for the record so I think they need to be granted at this time Madame chair lady may I yes everyone knows how I feel about these bifurcated applications so that the the the bifurcation aspect generally the applicant comes in for the use and if the use is granted it's subject to site plan approval site plan approval uh would then indicate whether or not there were C variances that are required and the statute is clear it says the C variance in the site plan part of the application or to be voted on as if it's just a c not a d which means it doesn't need a a super majority of the board to vote on it I I think my my concern is that when we get a bifurcated application and whether or not you get a reasonably adop adapted concept plan it's very difficult to make a determination as to whether or not the sidey guard setbacks should be granted at that time for example I I I I would have a question of our engineer tonight's application I see on the map that there are a number of proposed spots for vehicles some are dump trucks and some are trailers or whatever they may be but I'm curious how how one gets to the other you know is there a circulation pattern here is there a circulation issue and if there is a problem with circulation maybe one of those spots has to be removed and that should be taking care of during the site plan uh I don't have any objection to to the use we've already granted the use the issue is the site plan and uh Mr Hill has always said that when we Grant the the um the use variants it's still subject to site it doesn't mean in my opinion it maybe he may have a different one it doesn't mean that we granted the sea variances it just means we granted the use now come back with the the site plan let us take a look at it let's see if it's you know the internal circulation pattern is safe you know are are you going to have trailers that are you know double stacked and or triple stacked and one may fall on somebody you know these are things we have to take into consideration how is it lit uh for internal circulation patterns things of that nature so my only my only question here is these Lots the parking spaces that are proposed here and I'll consider and parking spaces um how is the circulation Taken part in it the internal circulation pattern okay um so I I I could add the fact that I said before that my client has people come in to take out equipment if there's uh 15 pieces of equipment there trucks Etc they come in maybe in the morning take a piece of equipment out and go back so they can move things around very easily uh and and the activity level is maybe five or six times a week where someone comes here and takes some equipment and some tools leaves and comes back so it's a very inactive site except for that movement of that person coming in and taking a piece of equipment so it's not like people are moving stuff around all day long it's a it's a select area with a contractor jard that's used periodically well I understand the concept I really do and I said before I really didn't have any major problem with it in the LM Zone um my concern here is the safety now for the internal circulation patterns you know all we need is one person getting hurt and then I got to say to myself why didn't we think of that you know that these these vehicles are stacked on top of each other I shouldn't use the word on top of next to each other but so close to each other that I'm looking at the plan that's on the screen now that how does one of those in the upper leftand corner how does that even get out of there you have to move one one piece of equipment to get to another piece of equipment that's what the employees do he only has three employees uh on his staff that come in very infrequently and they will move a piece to get another piece out and and if EV Hill I'm sorry are all of these vehicles owned by your client yes all of them yes only for his purpose correct Mr Hurley if I can course that can change that can change with the ownership and we granted the variances you that my my com of my comments in earlier the meeting was just confirming that the use in the use farence testimony that was previously provided that this is a single owner occupied business he will not be leasing this premises out to any third parties or multiple parties or tenants this is solely this purpose this this this um owner occupied um when I when I see the Circ so I want to go back a little bit too real quick the plan that you have in front of you not not the circulation not the storage plan but the other plans they're virtually exactly what we saw at the use variant stage there was some little detailing that was done but we saw all this before there are no surprises we didn't we didn't have a a plan we had yes we did we had exactly what you had a concept we had a concept no this application was originally submitted as a use and preliminary final site plan application during the use they said you know what we're going to come back with the site plan but they had already sent they already so seen this did we or did we not Grant the the site plan the the no no okay so that's why they're here correct but you've seen this already that's my point if you were on the board at that time you've seen this plan all due respect the my age I don't remember what I had to no I'm I'm clarifying for the board that they've seen this plan the only the only plan you have not seen is the one that's up on the on the board on the display which is the circulation plan but all the other plans the board has seen previously well that's my point the circulation plan how do how do they how do those Vehicles circulate around each other well it's a storage lot so the testimony I've heard is it's storage if if if an if the owner operator needs to go in there and and OB use one piece of equipment and it's just what happens a trailer might be in the way they'll move the trailer to get that piece of equipment out or vice versa it's a self- policing activity um there is I look at circulation as mostly from a safety standpoint can an emergency vehicle get back there if somebody if somebody um gets hit by a vehicle but backing out yes they can an ambulance can come in it's unrestricted they've identified to me that an ambulance can get in there um emergency vehicles get in there just fine so that's where on in these contractor storage yards I am more concerned about site safety from for emergency purposes than whether or not the owner operator of the facility has to move a car or a vehicle out of the way to back another one out that's an operational thing that's done in our own driveways every day that's done in parking lots every day and that's done in contractor storage yards every day well parking lots every day we see internal circulation patterns just like on the on the uh the parking spaces proposed in by Herman Road there you have an access road tells you how wide it is uh tells you the direction in which which the the vehicles are traveling I don't see anything in the back that was my only qu my only question how do they get in and out if you're satisfied with it as our engineer if you're satisfied with it you know just say so and okay there's sufficient information on here for me to determine that there's adequate site there's adequate site access for safety and also for operations okay thank you through the chair yes just a question the post trailers um is there what's being stored inside of them I'm just trying to understand if there's for example my just my concern is if there's a fire for some reason um there's today hoverboards and all these lithium iron uh batteries and if one of these trailers were to have a fire in it how would a fire truck be able to access it if we have trailers all in front of it meaning I don't know they're called trailers or they're just storage containers blocking those trailers it's it's my understanding that trailers are used for tools and equipment that they need on the job site if they come in to pick up a uh a dump truck and they need some other equipment from the trailers they take the equipment out of there via jumpers or tools Etc uh and they close it up and that's it to my I do not believe there's any um gasoline or batteries being stored there saying if there is for whatever reason a fire in there what's the access if they're having containers in front of all them if there would be some kind of if they would remove you know one or two of the containers in front of it that there should be access to those trailers in case of emergency I think that would be very beneficial I think there's a room to walk behind there open the door and get into the trailer but I'll I'll defer that to um a discussion with Evan and Ernie as to if there's enough room back there and if we need to make an adjustment we'll make an adjustment thank you and and also uh Mr Heyman just as as as part of site plan application ations the applicants required to submit these the the project documents the site plans to the traffic safety officer in town which is the police department the Fire official for the district um environmental commission and so on but from a safety perspective traffic safety officer and Fire official the applicant has done that um I don't have in the package if you've received responses yet I suspect you did back when you originally sent them out we got some responses but not all okay we have to follow up for compliance as as we always do y but they did they they met their obligation by submitting to the safety agencies U and they're obligated to comply with any of those any comments that may come up thank [Music] you through the chair the applicant just if you would just clear something up for me those units that are stored around the perimeter of that yard are they more containers or trailers are they shipping containers without wheels so they're permanently placed there or they subject to being moved around with tires you I'm getting a little confused as to storage and what's physically going to be on the site those are trailers that I believe have wheels on them to be moved in and left there but not to be rolled around the site going to be permanently at that loc those those locations okay so they're pretty much permanently located then I'm sorry are they permanently located in a slot or they're subject to movement they'll be permanently located as per the site plan thank you excuse me isn't that different what we were told before if they're permanently located then someone said before that you know some one of the workers would come in move move the trick move the truck or or do something and when they were trying to when when I asked about the internal circulation patterns I was I thought you said that U the workers can come in just move the truck and get what they need whatever but now you're saying they're all permanent we're talking about apples and pears the four trailers are on the um on the perimeters perimeter of the property yeah they will never they will not move but the vehicles the equipment will be moved if necessary uh to get to another piece of equipment okay so so four trailers on a perimeter they're they are the ones that would be permanent correct okay thank you and those four trailers are primarily storage correct that's correct that that is what the use variance um resolution indicates as well any other questions or comments for the applicant Madam chle one question of of Mr Hill I I read Mr Peter's report and he had indicated that the addition of some of these vehicles UMES does it create a problem for the Imperia surface coverage is are you satisfied with the um you know the the the management the the Water Management plan here storm storm water management yes the applicants actually uh G the answer is yes the applicants actually gone above and beyond what they're obligated to do mostly to correct the clearing that has occurred prior to them taking ownership with the for the with the uh the clearing that occurred with the prior owner so they're they're making that wrong a right by putting in storm water management measures okay thank you I have a quick question yes um I'm not sure if I missed something but it seems like the trailers are up against the perimeter of the property is there I'm looking at the required setback I'm looking at it sketched out with like where the 30 foot and 50 foot ZX are so the locations of those trailers were approved as part of the use varant application okay thanks any additional questions or comments for the applicant being that there's no no additional questions I'm going to open this to the public anybody wishing to come forward and comment on this application please do so seeing no one come forward I'm going to close public session board it's up to us for discussion and a motion if possible the chair Sor go ahead I'll off for a motion for discussion I'll second it for the chair if I can just remind the board this is the we are not here to Ral this the use VAR there is no use varant application here that was previously granted so they have they have the right they came back uh to satisfy a condition for site plan approval uh you've seen those plans before they're a little further detailed nowal um and if if um I would say if you were to I would recommend that in your motion you incorporate any of the C variances that that are required there uh my understanding is there's no additional C variances on these plans than what you've seen previously but Ernie letter has a comprehensive listing of all the C variances that are required but again we're here for preliminary final site plan only and that only requires a simple majority uh to affirm and approve I still had the same type of question the D variance was granted subject to site plan approval from if I understand you correctly you're telling me that the C variances were also granted they subsumed no no no no that's not Mr I said nothing like that I just said that the this resolution should include the C Varian language right that's exactly what I just said okay but we they were in quotes just for so I'm clear not subsumed into the D variance that that was previously granted I'm going to leave that to Ryan but that's not my understanding is they were not okay that's correct that's how I read the prior resolution all right thank you does the board wish for me to put the SE variances on required on the record just for the purposes okay uh number one would be the required minimum lot area is 3 acres whereas existing is 916 acres the required minimum lot width is 300 ft whereas the existing lot width is 142.5 Ft the required minimum lot Frontage is 150 ft where the existing lot Frontage is 142.5 Ft the required minimum lot depth is 300 ft um whereas the existing lot depth is 275 ft the required minimum front yard setback for a principal building is 100 ft whereas the existing building has a front yard setback of 57.1 fet the required minimum sidey yard setback for a principal building is 30 ft whereas the existing building has a sidey yard setback of 24.8 2 ft the required minimum year minimum rear yard setback for an accessory structure is 50 feet whereas the proposed trailer containers is 11 feet the required minimum sidey yard setback for an accessory structure is 30 ft whereas the proposed trailer containers is 11 ft that's repeated the required minimum parking setback from a residential property line is 20 ft whereas the proposed Stone parking area in the rear of the property is 11 ft the required minimum parking set back from a non-residential property line is 10 ft whereas the existing Drive aisle is 2.9 ft and number 11 the height of the garage shall be provided to determine compliance um for the for that purpose I I presume that the height will be compliant with the the principal structure of a maximum of 50 ft and maximum height of accessory structures at 25 ft that be a fair representation the yeah 24 ft for the uh garage 24 ft y thank you so that's compliant with the zone that was the list so we have a motion in a second Mr Murphy just listed all of the required variances um so just to be clear we're voting on prary and final site plan and that all the variants be assumed in the resolution did I read that properly yeah what you're voting for is preliminary and final site plan approval with the required SE variances that I just listed any additional comments or anything else for discussion through the chair Mr book sure um I think one of the older plans that we saw that they were alluding to I have one of those dat 622 23 I think Mr Hill was talking about where it showed the exterior for those trailers and a lot of the internal stuff was already there but then by virtue of the newer drawing that you see up on the screen it blocked out where the uh where the trucks would be uh where the trailers would be and that I think is is very good very very positive our engineer is satisfied with the circulation site circulation and what needs to be moved and how it would be moved I think it's an improvement I think it helps uh help helps us get a better sense of what's going on here and how it's going on and within the context of the of the uses around it um it it it it seems to me that the general purposes of zoning are satisfied seems to me that was it's in the best best interest of uh General Welfare again given what's going on around it and given these improvements and the uh now the greater specificity as to where these different items would be so to approve the appli any additional questions or comments for discussion given that there are no additional questions or comments I'm going to ask you to do a roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss Bradley yes thank you very much thank you we are going to move on to application number four after we take a 10-minute breaks we'll be back at 9:00 thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e suitability to accommodate such things as a storm owner management Basin um accommodate the proposed improvements from a grading perspective I don't know what the existing grades are here I don't know what the proposed grades are I suspect because I've seen the site that the the proposed grades will mimic existing uh but again um it would be nice to have a more detailed plan showing that um you could always subject any approval on a site plan just like we saw earlier and comeback um but a perfect I guess what I'm getting a perfect example is the prior applicant came with a plan that was pretty much 60 70% designed as part of the use Vari application and in this case we have a concept plan um so again we have no soils data to substantiate if if the storm waterer Management Facility can be accommodated in that location uh we landscape buffering this is landscape buffering I don't know where those are going what it consists of and where uh we don't know about refug containers um those I don't see depicted on the plan uh site lighting I don't see any depicted on the plan and uh look I I I think those of you who have known me long enough here we we I'm really trying to strive to get to that 50 60% Mark with engineering details on a use variance plan because I think that that that goes to show that the site could be adequately suited to accommodate the proposed use now unfortunately our checklist doesn't require that level of information to be submitted to be deemed complete however we've gone back and forth with applicants in the past to ask them to provide that additional information on on use variance on bifurcated use variance applications so um um and there's been instances where applicants would reach out um prior to and we'd have a TRC meeting with them and and we'd go over all that so we don't have to do it for the first time at a meeting so those are my only those are my only comments on on to the board at this stage I would note that yes they are going to need stormwater management facilities because they're proposing more than a quarter acre of impervious cover may I just respond to that I I just um respectfully this application was and we've worked very well with your professionals we don't have a review letter from Mr Hill's office so we would have this application has been carried several times so respectfully we we could have worked those out before tonight Mr Peters any comments questions Mr Hopkin okay any additional questions or comments from Mr Hopkin you like to call your next Witness our next witness will be tion Jones the co- applicant you can stand here you have to get sworn good evening Mr Jones if you would please you can grab that mic and raise your right hand that would be great thank you very much do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you very much if you would please state your name spell your last uh provide your affiliation to this application please my name is yeah my name is tion Jones uh J NES um I'm the um the resident at the uh property and the uh the person running the business and I presume that he's being uh presented as a fact witness yes thank you very much and before you get Mr Jones just before you get started just remember to hold that to your mouth because the Acoustics in here stink so it's hard for us to hear okay thanks neb okay Mr Jones um can you tell the board your relationship to the co- applicant Carol nokolo I'm her son-in-law okay and do you reside at 30 Castle Road yes I do and who do you reside there with um um the um owner's a daughter-in-law Ashley NOA and your children and my two children and um it's your intention you live there now it's your intention to raise your family there yes okay now we're here today asking the board for approval to to allow you to have your residence on that property but also to run a business on that property is that correct yes and um the board for the board edification can you give them an overview of the business that you are uh you know running on that site um yes me go detail yes um I the auto refurbishment business and essentially I buy cars and repair them and sell and list them mostly on for sale on the internet um and we also uh sell used parts from spare parts cars and that's about it okay well let's let's get into some detail uh the site itself as Mr Hopkin indicated has the residence and it also has a garage correct yes how approximately how big is that garage about 600 sare ft and is the garage the place where you do the work on these automobiles yes and how many automobiles can you fit in that garage one um now as far as your business is concerned how many employees do you have zero do you have any intention on adding any employees no um with regard to your hours of of operation and the dates that you work can you tell the board what those are um I pretty much work um Monday through Friday 88: to 5:00 p.m. um there have been some pickups after hours but that that's about it now again you say you buy these cars you fix them up to sell mhm um do do you have foot traffic do customers come and go from your property um probably about three to four customers a week um are on the property but not much more than that is that by appointment everything is By Appointment there's no one that is allowed to just come on the property as they please with regard to the work that you do on these cars um explain to the board what you do uh do you do body work no I do I do solely mechanic work I there's no body work or paint involved it's only mechanical things that I do um with regard to any hazardous substances substances do you do any oil changes on the cars I I I don't um do oil changes if I do a repair and there is oil in the car is drained and it's put into a 55 gallon barrel that is uh emptied by um a company when it is full do you have any type of waiting room or Showroom on the premises for these automobiles no everything's by a drop off only how if you're going to sell an automobile how do you Market it for sale then um the the internet is is like Facebook Marketplace or any other um sites that allow to post the uh for sale of vehicles um do you get deliveries of Auto Parts to your site um very seldom um it's usually by like a pickup truck or a small van it's not never really a um big truck and how often do you get those type of deliveries Maybe once or twice a month um how how are the automobiles transported to your to your site uh I have my own um my have my own truck and I use my uh trailer to move any vehicle I need to bring in when you say have your own truck is it a tow truck no it's a um it's a 3500 pickup truck do you have any intention on expanding this use Beyond on this garage no and and with regard to the automobiles um explain for the board how many automobiles do you have on site what do you do with them um I I I generally have about 10 automobiles at at Max um pretty much um they're they're fixed they're repaired and sold where do you put these automobiles they're all they're all kept behind um the garage to the rear of the property yes and um do you display them any cars for sale um I have in the past but I probably wouldn't go in know in the future and C certainly if this board restricted you from doing so you would do that correct correct um with regard to um you Al said you also sell Auto Parts so how does that work um pretty much uh so some of the parts go through eBay so they're remove package and then taken to the shipper um and there's very seldom local sale people it's you mostly a lot of eBay and a lot of shipping when an automobile comes on the site how long does it typically stay there um it depends on the nature of what it needs honestly I like some a vehicle could be there a week a vehicle could be there two months I mean it I mean a vehicle could have a backorder part or something that you can't physically um get it done in a a lot of time but typically speaking you're talking about in the range of 10 automobiles at any given time yes and they're stored behind the garage yes um and you also live on this site your your residence is adjacent to the garage correct correct and when I say adjacent I don't mean attached you can see it on that plan that's up there um it's in close proximity to the garage correct yes and you have small children that you uh want to have a ability to have a yard playing correct correct um so is it important that um if the board were to approve this use that ultimately when the site is uh developed that it be done in a way where you can enjoy your residence and your family life but also have a a a clean tidy for like lack a better word uh running business yes and again with regard to any um hazardous substances um outside of the oil you discussed is there any other thing that uh we should know about no um and again you say there's typically three to four people a week that may come to your site yeah well that that's a busy week some sometimes it's only one person sometimes like some sometimes it's one person in two weeks it's not it's not a big scale business it's more at the hobbyist level um and would all the work take place inside the garage yes so you wouldn't be doing any work on cars outside the garage correct and it's your testimony that you're not um seeking to uh add any employees correct and you're the sole employee correct um at this time I don't have any further questions of Mr Jones any questions or comments Mr J any questions or comments from Mr Jones through the chair Mr Stafford Smith yes is is there any storage of motor oil antifreeze gasoline um the only storage is is literally inside the garage there's a a 55 gallon drum that it's I don't move that drum it the guy comes he has a um a pump truck and he pumps it out the barrel there's I don't uh store oil anywhere else on the property right no lithium battery storage you you working just gas cars not electric correct any additional questions or comments Mr Jones yes how when you said you have 10 cars that you repaired and those are sit there waiting for sale that you store in a back um yes I was going to say the um the 10 cars that are I would say somewhere at different stages we because like they're not all done um but yeah there are different I have about 10 so that includes cars that are done and cars that are correct be worked on you don't have 20 cars 10 and 10 yeah correct okay Madam chair yes Mr pet board members are done I I had a quick question that's okay the storage for the vehicles is that on the grass or is that on the pavement behind the garage so right where that fire truck turnaround is the elbow of it yes is actually gravel right there that was already there when we bought the property and that's right right about now that's where they are stored and even with that fire truck turn around there there would still be adequate space thank you chair Mr Peters did you want to make a comment jump in Mr Peters or well Mr Jones um I'm sure at sometime Mr Paxton said someone here is going to ask you a bunch of tough questions generally your neighbors don't like doing that because they're your neighbors so I get paid to do that so please I'm I'm I'm just asking for the record this has to do more with the professionals than it has to do with you so please don't take it personally we just need to make sure that when you're done here board the town and you know what's been agreed to moving forward so there's no you know you don't lease it out you don't start doing oil changes you don't start doing Collision repairs you don't start having 40 cars on the site so is the garage currently being used for this business yes okay what's inside the garage currently are there utilities you know water sewer electric gas there's only electric okay is there a lift in the garage yes okay has the do you know if the garage has been inspected by the building department for the use that you're using it for no okay um so should the board approve this you may if there's a lift I don't know is it is it a mechanical lift or you have one that you put in the concrete and it's like a hydraulic lift it's a hydraulic lift okay so if you don't have building permits for that at some point when you get through this you're going to need to go to the building department to make sure that what used to be a detached garage can be utilized for automobile repair the vehicles that you talked about they're all registered not no no the the vehicles in the back of the property are not registered okay so that brings us to the point about how long they're going to stay there because what happens is you you cross this imaginary threshold into it being a salvage yard a junkyard and that's not what you and your team put together and told the board you were going to do so we need to sort of put a if if a vehicle's registered that's great if a vehicle comes in as a junker and you fix it up or you dismantle it that's not automobile restoration and resale that's scrapping vehicles and I think we need to be specific about that so Mr Paxton to the extent you want to cross-examine your witness to get we have automobile restoration and resale that was what you talked about if we're taking unregistered vehicles and tearing them down to their limit and reselling those parts I think we need to have that on the record yes thank you are are any of the vehicles that come in used for their parts Alone um yes and when you talk about how many potential Vehicles would you have on the site that you would use for that um I I tried to keep as many not there um so it's like there's three right now and it I don't plan on like having additional ones and you understand Mr Peter's comments that the board doesn't want to say we're sanctioning you to have a junkyard there correct correct and that there has to be certain understanding that if you have an unregistered car there it's not going to stay there for Beyond a reasonable all time correct um and the primary goal is not to have a salvage yard it's to if you have these vehicles there it's to utilize Parts get those parts out so you can put them in the cars that you're refurbishing and then get rid of those cars as quickly as possible yes um I don't know Mr Peters if you have any follow Mr P I'm not sure if that information was available to the zoning officer when you determined what you're asking for and it certainly didn't appear that that's what was listed in your statement of operations my concern is that your client may need a junkyard license to salvage vehicles I don't know I just if if he was bringing cars in and fixing them and sending them back out and they're all registered that's automobile repair or rest restoration or resale but taking an un an unregistered vehicle and taking the parts off I think that's something else and I I can't tell you what it is because I'm not the zoning officer but it sounds like something else and I think we need to sort of be clear about that as we move forward I'm not saying it's a fatal flaw in the I'm just saying we need to be specific and and put conditions of approval on that such that we don't run into a problem later on where he's got 10 vehicles and he's you know bringing in junk cars and people say hey you guys approved a junkyard I don't think that's what this application was submitted as no it's understood it's it's fair um and again it's not your intention to have a junkyard would you and and again can you do this without using Vehicles like that for parts and and and if if you need them just tell the board Now's the Time I was going to say the part the parts cars do make it a lot easier you know for especially on cars that are older that parts are hard to find I I mean as far as registering them I mean do you mean as a register them or as entitling them because like do they all have to get plates like because when you're reselling normally you don't you use a dealer plate or like instead of physically registering like a car to that plate if that makes any sense well where do you get the cars I normally buy them off of other people or if from an auction the like so like they they could easily like if it were something if that was the case it could easily be titled retitled without like physically registering it on on the road but you're willing to work with the board to figure out what you're allowed to do here and what parameters we'd have to put on on the use of these types of vehicles yes um thank you Mr Paxton the real concern is once you start dismembering Vehicles we have no idea where they came from we have no idea what fluids are in them we have no idea I don't know if you you keep a transmission you keep it outside it rains it ends up the petroleum products end up in the ground so there's a a concern about how the salvaged materials are stored you know if you only have a 600 foot garage but you have 10 cars outside well if you've got radiators and car doors and I don't I don't know what that is but at some point in time this isn't restoration and resale it's and I don't use the word I forget what the other word for junkyard is Salvage so it doesn't not a negative connotation it's just what it is and let's just be clear about it so we don't have a problem we spend all this time and effort and two days after he's open someone else comes out and sight him again for having a junkyard when he's not supposed to have a junkyard so I think we probably incumbent upon your group to get a better explanation for us whether it's at the use variants or the site plan where salvaged parts are going to and where and how Salvage salvage parts are going to be stored I'm not sure it should just be on Stone yeah so and I appreciate those comments and the um the last just question I have is that um in the statement of operations and I guess I'm asking it to Mr Jones through you Mr Paxton it said it's a homebased business um but honestly it's it's not in the house it's in a garage it's not in the house but it's an an ancillary structure to the house um which I believe um actually in the ordinance it also indicates that that would suffice thank you that's all I have for now Madam chair thank you the chair Mr book yeah Mr Jones I'm still having a little trouble understanding what it is you want to do there so first I want to go back to um a question question that was asked in terms of fluids if you're if you're doing repairs and refurbishment and you're not changing oil but you're storing oil uh and you're putting a car up on a lift that's an indicator to me that you're at least draining oil from the car would that be a fair State yes so if you're draining oil from the car are you not then putting oil in the car if you intend to sell it well yes to change changing oil at the car second other fluids would be transmission fluids if you pick up a car it's got a transmission problem are you attending to the transmission problem or you are repair yes so that may also require you to drain transmission fluid and you're storing transmission fluid on S yeah yes um that would be in a Different 55g Drum I presume you can mix it with the oil drum yeah well um most of the Petro all the petroleum based stuff um that can be put in the same container like and it's all like it basically it's all picked up by the same guy and so and then we get to the other fluid in the vehicle which would be the uh coolant you also come upon vehicles that you're dealing with that you have to drain the coolant or you're changing out a radial or whatever the case may be are you're dealing with that fluid as well yes so you have to somehow capture all that fluid so it doesn't end up getting on the ground that we've heard before correct so now in terms of the work that you're doing in the garage are you doing any cutting or welding do you have as settling torches do you have any type of plasmus Cutters anything like that in your garage I I do have an ettling torch so you're doing cutting in the garage are you set up for and whatnot Just In cutting not cutting no Ju Just for it's just for heat for like um exhaust systems have severely rusted bolts and it's so it's just to do the job it's not for anything if you need it you use it yes sir so in terms of the actual repairs that you're so if it's a transmission issue are you handling the transmission issue or do you are you giving that out to another mechanic I I'm handling it you handle it uh is there ever a time when you call in somebody else to assist you with any type of a mechanical issue that you're encountering on a Vehicles no so you're handling Transmissions are you doing major major engine over in that garage yes so you're you're pulling heads off you're doing valves do you have cutting machines uh in order to cut you no that that I do take to a uh professional machine shop you're doing brake jobs yes and do you use outside lifts outside Jacks you doing any work outside no so you're able to do all of this work inside that 600 squ foot frame garage yes do you have any training mechanical training you certified any of these areas I've I've been a mechanic my entire adult life which is about 12 years I've worked for multiple shops over the course of the years so a lot of experience youve gained experience over time working in these different jobs but my question I guess is did you ever take any types of tests to become certified in any of these areas no uh thank you mam chair lady Mr Jones just so that I'm clear you purchase you'll purchase a vehicle maybe at an auction or just privately and the vehicle is inoperative and you repair it correct once repaired then you sell it yes do you ever purchase a vehicle that was operative and you sell it as a used car it's rare but it it it does happen so you do yes okay um along the lines of questions that that Mr Peters asked if if you got an inoperative vehicle and let's say it had an air conditioning unit and I have no idea what I'm talking about okay if you get an air conditioning unit you can say I can use this in another vehicle and you take it off the vehicle that you purchased do you do you accumul at these these parts and sell them or do you st strictly use them for your own purpose it's oh I'm sorry so I'm sorry I I I the question the question is if you were to take a a a piece of equipment off a vehicle that you purchased but didn't at that time need it for a car that you're working on would you hold that piece and just sell it outright to someone who may need it [Music] um yes and no like some it it it would depend on the situation sometimes if if I'm on um if someone like contacts me on Facebook and they need that part yes I would sell it to them but like a lot of times you wind up doing like repetitive Vehicles so like if you know like for instance a 2007 Grand Cherokee is a good selling vehicle you keep doing it but then you wind up having your own kind of inventory of parts for it well I guess that's my question I mean you have an inventory of parts that you may utilize for your own vehicles that you've purchased but could you do you offer those for sale to the public um yes okay thank you chair please yes Mr hopin okay got it um the parts that you get do you do you get them from the manufacturer do you get them from junkyards um a lot a lot of um a lot of parts I do get from the manufacturer and it it it really it once again it depends on the part it depends on the price of the part honestly if the manufacturer wants a lot of money you know you're not going to really turn a profit if you know you pay you pay more than what the car is worth for something so sometimes you might have to use another Salvage like a salvage company to get aart okay then then you're replacing a part that can't be used with the new part therefore you couldn't sell a part you took off if it doesn't work well correct and then at that point it would be taken to the scrapyard okay when you said that you don't do body work on cars no I I all all my experiences and mechanical like I I like I don't uh do like any kind of like heavy body repairs or I don't do anything that involves paint like I mean like have I put a bumper on a car yeah I was going to say but that's kind of part of the business of ring cars you know if you have to put a bumper or fender on it but I don't I don't pull frame I don't do any I don't do anything structural see you're not doing Collision work correct it's it's Auto Repair really and you don't do or do you do any painting I I do not do paint okay so when when somebody comes in to buy a car and it's running fantastically and it looks like was in a wreck uh how do you handle that I I it's it's more of kind of handled on the other end where it's just like I just I try to pick cars that just have mechanical problems like like solely if you went to the mechanic and you needed a transmission and you were like you know what I'm done with this car I'm going to go get a new one well if you took care of your car and it's very clean inside out to me it might be worth putting a transmission in it but like essentially like it's not if if the body is not in good shape it's not really usually worth it the chair yes one I think you said I just want to hear what you don't do is if uh I'm Joe public and I give you a call I need an oil change of my car I want you to do an overall safety check on it change the tires put on some the wheels you don't do that you are not taking caution from the public to do that kind of mechanical work right no I I I do not do that any additional questions or comments Mr hman thank you um you mentioned a couple times about the parts I'm just trying to wrap my head around the parts aspect of this business when you're purchasing your vehicles you're purchasing the some of them for parts for other vehicles that you want to repair are you purchasing the vehicles or at least some of the vehicles to sell those parts I think you mentioned that on you've sold them on eBay or something like that is that corre are you doing one are you doing the other or doing both is this are you buying cars to sell the parts or you're only buying the cars for parts for your own parts to repair the other vehicles it's it's more of to buy it to repair another vehicle and then what I don't use is is a lot of times what I take off the car and then list on eBay before I get rid of the rest of the car so so when you're working let's say on a Grand Cherokee and you need certain parts you're going to buy a second one so you could get those parts from there and then sell the rest of those parts of that Grand Cherokee correct correct okay uh I think you Mr book just mentioned I was going to asked that before so any external mechanic work he just mentioned oil change you're not not doing any kind of mechanic work for anybody else other than the cars that you're working to resale or resell I was going to say um I don't do like oil changes I say if some there are clients that I've had for years that you know sometimes they do need a bigger job done that's usually the only time people contact me is like I usually do the bigger stuff but like I'm not like a jiffy Loop like I don't want the I don't want the volume so you are a general mechanic doing work for private customers as well not just for your own repairs to resell the vehicles correct okay thank you any additional questions or comments call your would you like to call your next witness yes thank you oh t i a h n t i a h n you're welcome e e Madam chair at this time request if we could have this matter adjourned and carried to the next meeting or next month I you know in in accordance with the board's agenda um so that we can address certain issues and bring this back to the board um for uh certain clarifications so interestingly Mr Paxon for some reason I was only given the agenda for the next meeting and I will tell you that it will not be the next meeting if you'll give me one second let me pull up the future agendas you have them yes so in the interest of full disclosure I will not be here on May 1st I will not be here May 1 so uh excuse me um Mr Jones just indicated he will not be here May 1st wonderful I'm going to Disney World I'm not kidding May 15th would be fine yeah does May 15th work that that's fine actually yes this this would um you started Faraday I'll put you on for I'll put you on for number one thank you may 15th thank you this the you're the oldest application by far okay thank you so I let me make hold on do we want to open to the public first about anything we heard I I I understand that's a silly question but just to keep clear I'm going to open the meeting to the public if there's anyone wishing to come forward about what was already testified to please feel free to do so at this time seeing no one come forward I'm going to close public session Mr Murphy will make his announcement thank you just a sidebar uh I'll talk to you after after I carry this very good thank you um okay application number four 30 cville Road uh Caro nilo and I no chilio um block 17302 Lot 19 uh in the NC Zone that application is being carried to the May 15th uh 20124 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment no further notice will be required applicant waves time yes and they'll be listed as number one thank you thank you everybody have a safe trip home sounds sounds bad out there so no notice is required oh you got to talk to motion to adjourn all those in favor I hi see you in a couple weeks thank you