e e e e e e e e e e e e all I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all I like to see good evening welcome to the March 18th Jackson Township planning board meeting this meeting is convened in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings Act of New Jersey and all adequate notice of this meeting has been provided in all the required sources Madam chairman before we begin tonight I'd like to welcome Betty Rose who is a new member you picked a good meeting Betty and uh we'll look for approval of the minutes for March 4th please I'll move let's do roll call First roll call Mr Brey here Mr Bernstein here Mr heler here Mr Herman Mr Riker here miss m Rose Mr marzo here Mr treemmer Mr wall Mr Sullivan here Dr cim here um first uh I'd like to call for a nomination of Laura Morrison for the recording secretary position motion heler second Bernstein uh vote please roll call yes um Mr brei yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Miss Rose Mr Mar yes Mr chmer Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes so I'll therefore read resolution [Music] 2024-the confirming the appointment of the board's recording secretary whereas a regular meeting of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey was held March 18th and whereas it is necessary to elect a recording secretary now therefore let it be resolved by the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey as follows Laura Morrison is elected planning board recording secretary for the term expiring on December 31st 2024 but Shall Serve in that capacity until the selection and qualifications of a successor be it further resolved that the aforen mentioned Personnel shall continue to serve in their respective capacity during the succeeding year until a new elections appointments and selections are duly carried out and a new resolution adopted by the board and be it further resolved that the notification of this resolution be published in an official newspaper of Jackson Township by the planning board secretary within s days of Passage now I'll accept a um motion to accept this resolution so moved second reer okay Mr brei yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes Mr rker Mr reiker yes Miss Rose yes Mr marzo yes Mr chmer yes Mr Sullivan yes and miss and Dr Campbell yes uh changes to the agenda schedule there are aren't any happy day um miscellaneous legal matters not at this time and a board members discussion Mr Marza thank you madam chair um we're pleased to announce tonight that we had our first subcommittee meeting for a master plan we're going to be um amending our master plan doing a full review and we're excited about this and we're hopeful that you all in the public will participate as we indicate going forward we had a meeting this evening with um Dr Campbell on the board as well as on the subcommittee as well as Mr heler and Mr Bernstein we also have um our attorney Bobby Shay and then our Consultants are um from CME engineering Gregory valesi and malova opte is the project manager so we'll be keeping you updated going forward and just wanted to let you all know that we're starting thank you any other board matters for discussion all right we'll move forward then please Miss Jennings welcome again we should get you a cot than now before we begin of course we'd like to hear from our professionals um thank you madam chair um this application uh for to amend a prior um preliminary and federal site plan approval um back in 2021 the board approved a 13,000 um I'm sorry House of house of worship uh the Macedonia Baptist Church um that um application was deemed resolution compliant it was pretty much set to go but it was never really um brought to fruition um the current application seeks to amend that prior approval and rather than a house of worship there's a 13,000 ft 140 um student private school that's provided all the um I'll say you know infrastructure design the parking lot pretty much the building footprint um the access access point to Castell Road remains as originally approved by the board the um uh issues U tonight are for the change of use and of course the private school is going to have a greater impact on the surrounding area as well as traffic as well as required in Road improvements than a house of worship so the testimony um should should address those those issues also um the AC setic system that was proposed again for a church it's going to be um somewhat smaller than what would be required for a um a school so some testimony from the applicant regarding how um the septic system is going to be um uh designed and comp confirmation that the um design is going to be compliant with um ordinance standards and the only other comment uh relates to the drainage and we would just request that the applicant um indicator confirm that the existing drainage system which was approved um uh be upgraded to comply with current ordinate standards that's pretty much it right now thank you Mr Peters thank you madam chair our office has a report dated January 23rd of this year um this is a conforming use in the zone so they're here before the board this evening um Mr CLE covered most of the change of use um we would like them to provide some testimony regarding student transportation um the plan still reference phasing of construction um we'd like the statement of operations to be testified to by someone in responsible charge other than just the piece of paper that was submitted with the application and verify what's going on in terms of the revised architect plans for um the private school thank you thank you good evening for the record I'm Donna Jennings from the law firm of w Goldman and Spitzer on behalf of the applicant as the board's Consultants have indicated the applicant is here this evening seeking amended preliminary and final major site plan approval to construct a private religious boys high school with related site improvements on property located on cville road across from the intersection of Winterberry Avenue and identified as block 3601 lot two on the Township's tax maps and situated in the residential R3 Zone uh as indicated in 2021 this board granted amended or granted preliminary final major site plan approval to construct a place of worship on the property which is memorialized by resolution dat June 7th 2021 the applicant now wishes to change the use from a place of worship to the private religious boys high school the application requires no variances nor does it propose any revisions to the approved site plan the proposed building will remain substantially the same and remain in the same location really just identification of the rooms for different uses uh as appropriate for the high school in support of the application the applicant will present the testimony of the following Witnesses are act Witnesses Zev pearlstein in his capacity as an operations uh person Patrick Ward from Insight engineering and John Ray from MCD and Ray for traffic in addition we do have the architect on standby if there's any issues that are not addressed both those three Witnesses we'll bring her up uh thereafter and as a matter of recordkeeping the applicant is in receipt of the following three reports the Jackson Township Police Department Traffic Safety review letter from dated January 16 202 4 the board planners review letter dated January 23rd 2024 and the board Engineers review letter dated February 7th 2024 so with that I would call up our first uh witness may I just interrupt for a second to uh point out that Mr Herman has joined us thank you Mr [Music] pearlson going swear you all right all right please raise your right hand you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please state your name and spell your last of the record s pearlstein tzvi pearlstein p r l s t i n and you'll be testifying in what capacity as operator owner operator and um as operator of the school yeah operator of the school yeah list credentials or anything you want for the record no he's just a fact witness not an expert okay um so Mr pearlstein you're been the one that's been responsible for this particular project correct yes and there were a number of questions that were outlined in the board uh review letters um so I just kind of want to go through each one of them so that the record is clear uh the school that you propose is a boy High school for approximately how many students approximately about 140 students and how many staff members do you anticipate being at the school we're expecting about 12 12 members and could you just break that down you're going to have a principal there'll be a principal there'll be an assistant principal and um two teachers per classroom uh there was a question on one of the reports with regard to whether or not you would have a nurse on site is that something that the applicant's going to have yes okay and will you also have a janitor on site to handle the daily uh maintenance for the site yes what kind of curriculum are you going to be offering at the school so it's mainly religious studies but then the afternoon they we do do we do have secular studies and if you could describe the hours of operation will the school be open Monday through Friday schools open every day of the week besides Saturday and um usually prayers start about 8 and we usually finish about 9:00 8:39 at night except on Fridays I believe Friday we end that at 1 okay and how many students are going to be using a school bus transported to and from the school I would say about 90% of the students will end up on school bus about 10% will end up uh parent drop off so that's approximately 126 students bused and 14 students probably be dropped off by their parents yes will the buses remain on site once the children are dropped off no we'll be using will any of the students be walking to the school no they're not permitted to walk or drive to the school so so no driving to the school as well no no driving to the school um can you for the record indicate the school year it runs from September to what September through July uh something like that you have to July usually and then there's like usually like summer camp and that in August okay part of July August and then the students take breaks for various religious holidays throughout the year yes Passover sucus and then the other allies year okay will there be any cooking or food preparation done on S no no cooking how does the food get to the students since they're there from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. so we bring in the food already made and we just put it into the warming kitchen area sort of like you know warmers okay and if you could um I believe Anthony there's a floor plan that was submitted it might be A2 if you could bring that up and just W he's doing that you're basing this off the statement of operations that was submitted correct and did you create the statement of operations yes okay that's where we got the information yep just for the record okay if you can just skip to the floor [Music] plan so looking at the um floor plan there's a multi-purpose room can you explain the purpose of the multi-purpose room the the room on I can't see the small letters the room on the left you come into the main building there's a Lobby and you go straight forward that's on the main floor that's going to be the what we call the Bas magish the studies the study hall that's where the boys are going to be learning throughout the day the room on the right is only the it's only you don't see it you can't get there you have to go downstairs from it you have to see on the next page probably okay can we go the next p so the first page is Just Bathrooms and a Lobby and the main study ho that's the main floor you go to the next page right so the main floor this floor you have the classrooms you have the offices for the staff and to the right you have the dining room sort of we use it also for like if we have a speech for the whole school or if you have to show video or anything then there's a warming kitchen that's the place where we bring the food to keep it warm if I'm ready to serve the boys and just so the record's clear what page are we looking at right here that's the second page I think I don't I don't have it in front of me the same thing but yeah it's a it says A6 a19 or we're going to have handouts when the site engineer comes up and it will have the floor plan so you can see them a little bit better gotcha if you could also for the record um what kind of deliveries are going to be coming to the school typically we just have like a van that delivers the food and together with it we usually bring along toilet paper tissues but and typical regular UPS deliveries Federal you know FedEx nothing large so you don't anticipate any type of tractor trailer coming to the site no okay who is going to be responsible for the maintenance of the site with respect to the parking areas the landscap and lighting Etc we have uh we have companies that we hire out uh we have a we have a landscaper we have a we have a company that does snow plowing do you have other sites yes we have schools in Lakewood okay so this is not your first school no this is not our first school okay how often will trash and recycling Pi be picked up up as needed okay and how will security be handled so typically we have cameras we have the doors unlocked down at all times this means it's only access controlled and um there's surveillance and that's that's our typical security that we have that's necessary but anything that's necessary we do but that's usually what we have okay that's all the general questions that I have for this witness mam chair what abouto so typically in high school the boys usually just like stroll take they take walks around the property they on let's say around the building they sit out on the benches and they they Schoo what it's called but uh it's it's also there's basketball so we'll probably put up in like the parking lot we'll probably put up a couple hoops and in the month of August when they have camp and not school what are the outdoor activities it's typically the same it's we're talking about for high school kids it's usually it's usually basketball and uh study and again there is no baseball fields here so there not being baseball and there's no pooled Earth so there not being a pool and if we need to do that we we'll bust them off to wherever they need to go to any uh indoor physical activities I'm not sure what you mean gym there's no gym there exercising calisthetics rope climbing I mean I was a high school principal for yes it's St so I know what high schools do no no no you're right looking for physical activity for these boys in inside our buildings we typically don't normally we take them on trips that is they could go they can end up in a Sky Zone they can end up in amusement parks they can end up in climb zones they can end up in in sorts of things like that I'm think of winter there not a lot of basketball that goes on December January uary February I'm talking from experience we have a high school already in Lakewood and there is no gym in the inside and there is no this is what they do they have a basketball they figure out how to get on to the court and the cold unless there snow rain and snow is the only thing that really holds them back but otherwise they typically try to get out there and and they study it's basically really what goes on and they they play pingpong a lot of times they do play ping we have a ping pong two ping pong tables in one of the rooms but that's really thank yes um you mentioned you had cameras and security system yes is that going to be able to be tied into to where our Police Department can monitor it also if I need to then we will I think that in today's will I think that's a necessity okay I don't have a problem with that thank you sir and uh we we've been discussing with several other schools now a security guard uh at the entrance or something of that nature we know the world we live in have you considered that we've we're hearing about that also in our high school we find it sometimes to be different than elementary schools typically we we have elementary schools and high schools in our elementary school we like to have a security guard in our high school we typically don't see a need for it because the doors stay un locked down and there's usually there's no way to get into the building unless you have the fob unless you have the way to get in but if you want us to have a security guard then we'll do that too I think that would uh would be a good idea that would be appreciated thank you thank you anything else from the board from the board any questions for this gentleman yes um see it's extremely large property has a lot of undeveloped property around I think your microphone is not on it's off showing on you hear me now do you think you have any future plans for expansion in the rear of the property or the front I'm I took we had been to land ourselves with a property that had an pre-existing approval and we locked out we bought it okay I I would just have one recommendation so to make um Mr C's life easier than resolution compliance if you could just uh amend the plans I'm not saying now I'm just saying during resolution compliance to identify the area that you were talking about where the kids are going to hang out and congregate and isolate them to that specific area so that you know the residents can they know that they're not going to be wandering around the neighborhood when they just kind of you know let them free um but then also to make sure that it doesn't um impact any of the parking requirements so if you're going to put a basketball court which for a lot of kids is pretty big you know it's not going to you're not eatting up half your parking requirement now the parking lot's actually overp parked and we're banking spaces but as I'm saying we just you know so so we just kind of designate the areas that he make his life a little bit easier that's a good idea it might be wise to fence area so that there's no wandering that's a good idea we put a fence around the basketball they won't won't be able to get in that's good has this uh been re-reviewed by the fire department 204 we submitted it to the town I don't know I didn't get a report from the fire yeah because we're kind of going with that any major revisions we're having the Fire official look at it right there's been no major revisions it's the exact same site plan that the town already reviewed and approved so we're building it just like the church's approval other than we're changing the inside rooms to be used by boys I know I speak English okay it's but it's also going to be a school not a church so I'm being very specific about that so I understand what you're saying but you have to understand what I'm saying it's subject to approval absolutely but we didn't get a report from them so well I mean and that's part of the problem here the these things need to get into the fire department CU they're backlogged and it takes more than a week for them to get to it just because this is what everybody wants well this was filed in November it's now March so that's been five months I don't know why they didn't get it I'm not saying whether he did or didn't get it but if you know this is the first I'm hearing of it and I have pretty close contact with them so Mr Mr chair we could also bring this up to the traffic safety expert he probably has more information on that report then yeah anything else from the board thank you very much thank you please so remain available in case there are more questions we sure will thank you thank you thank you so much you while at this time I'd like to bring up our site engineer Patrick [Music] Ward [Music] [Music] all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name and spell your last of the record Patrick Ward Ward with Insight engineering all right and uh put your credentials on the record sure um been with insight for just about 15 years now and I was here in December and January in front of this very board um still licensed as a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey all right and the board accepts the credentials thank you thank you and Patrick just for the record um your firm also was the site engineer for the church correct that's correct okay and if you could describe the site and the surrounding area and if you're going to refer to any exhibits uh just identify them sure um so if we could put A3 up on the board um this will show the aial of the property as of September of 2023 and what you it'll kind of make sense as to some of my testimony so this house of worship was before the board I believe in 2021 and approved and what you could see here this is um like I said that September aerial and our property yeah that's true this wasn't here last time so uh what's in blue is the subject property so U it was mentioned before it's very large tract um this is currently the proposal of hand what you can see which is kind of unique is that the area of development was already cleared it was cleared actually by the church group and then they stopped they actually stopped the project um not sure why but that's been cleared what that means is that all the approvals and this planning board approval was perfected previously which means all Outside Agency uh permits were obtained Bonds were posted and the lot was cleared things stopped um so what you can see here is kind of the first step is done we obviously have to seek approval from this board and the outside agencies to make sure all their approvals are still valid but just wanted to show everybody that this has already begun in kind of theory what we have in our surroundings this is cville Road here north south we have a residential neighborhood to the north and a residential neighborhood to the South um the unique part about the house of worship application it was a conditional use and one of the big conditions was a 50-ft perimeter buffer that's been provided it's actually remaining so uh there was comments in the review letter about providing a buffer I think 50 ft is in excess of what the ordinance would require um one of the board members also while we have this exhibit up mentioned about future expansion so the the applicant would have to come back in front of this board obviously for any future expansion big or small but one of the unique things about this is that there's a stream in the back and there's a flood Hazard area so once it the high Point's about here and once you get to that it completely tapers off to a flood zone so I think the expansion is somewhat limited to the rear might maybe to the front but again the building is all the way at the rear so I'm not sure what that would look like but just for the board's background um sites 17 Acres we're in the R3 Zone discuss what's around us um there was a note in one of the review letters about Wetlands being mapped on the property the uh prior applicant did obtain an Loi so we'll work with the board professionals to show them that there was no Wetlands approval beyond that needed in terms of the actual plan and I'll just walk through the the site plan um if we could put up A1 the site plan sheet or set and if you could turn to I believe the third sheet I'm guessing there but actually go one more if you don't mind it's a little zoomed out go go can you go one more we have it zoomed in sorry keep going Anthony I apologize we have zoomed in version of the overall site plan one more sorry go go back to sheet 4 and if you could zoom in a little bit I'm sorry the scale is just very large and it's not going to give you the uh zoom in on the area of work so basically uh the applicants proposing same building it's a 13,043 square foot it's going to be a private school um this plan that you see besides the labeling and some of the zoning compliance is unchanged from the 2021 application what we have here is we have one single point of access at Cashville road down here we have a two-lane Drive that meanders through the property it's about 800 ft long to a parking lot and then here's the building um initially well not initially sorry the 2021 approval was stipulated on a two-phase approve uh construction of the church with the change of use uh puts on the record and we'll revise the plans it's actually going to be a single phase so there's no phasing of the building um so everything that you see will be constructed in one phase there is a parking lot in front of the building here we do have an excess of parking um we require 47 spaces we have 75 actual paved spaces as proposed here again unchanged from last time 49 additional spaces are land banked so way in excess of what's the requirement of parking but again no changes in terms of EV since 2021 that that law did come into effect for this type of project it would be two required one of which will need to be in the Ada stall we'll provide that as a condition of approval so in terms of just site operations with U Mr pearlstein's um testimony we do anticipate School Drop School Bus drop off will be at the front of the building and apologize it's a little blurred there but there is a covered called Portico or or similar where the main entrance is um it's enough room for a bus vertically and horizontally the school bus drop off will be there kids will enter right into the school um and then the bus is can circulate and leave without interrupting the actual uh parking flow for the passenger vehicle spaces in terms of deliveries similar thing the um the school can control to a certain degree timing of deliveries what you heard with the food delivery and even some of the other um items that may be required we're not looking at any substantial delivery vehicles it's more of the Vans or maybe small box trucks same situation they'll drop off right in front of the school and not interrupt any of the circulation there is a shed that was proposed originally and approved it's back here I know Mr pearlstein did testify that there's a ex Lawn Equipment company that was the intention back then we didn't change the application um we're seeking to keep it and remain just in case Lawn Equipment will be needed to be stored there that was the original intention if it's not needed if the lawn service will be a third party I don't imagine the shed will actually be built um and we'll confirm that with Mr pearlstein as a condition of approval there is no uh plan for generator at this time um but in the event that there is going to be there is it is needed excuse me we have plenty of room in compliant locations to propose one um there was testimony given about the trash enclosure which is right here it's 10 by 20 which um there was a comment about the size of that it's private hauling so Mr PR and the school will have the ability to control the timing and frequency of that pickup we feel it's sufficient he reviewed it he has current operations going he feels that's also sufficient in terms of overall with the plans and and I want to show the board landscape plan from the prior application which is unchanged but there are no major changes I know Mr CLE had comments about grading and drainage there's a couple technical comments about the grading we'll be happy to address and I'll work with him on the the drainage and and the way they actually they believe the ordinances have changed almost twice since then um for storm water management we'll work on that in terms of Utilities cille Road does not have um public water or sewer so the church was originally approved with a septic system as was stated by Mr CLE and wellwater so because of the change of use the and I you know full disclosure our office did not prepare the septic design or or seek that approval but was somewhat familiar with it Church use is different it'll be based on actual components within excuse me school use is different it'll be based on actual components within the building um which I think will really be hammered down as part of construction drawings that if it rises to the level of over 2,000 gallons per day would need a treatment works application from the njd and a um I believe an AG gyp's permit so that's something Mr Pearl and the school understand and would have to seek that approval separately we do have a an an abundance of room there especially because the change of use doesn't require the 50ft buffer which you can see I don't think we'll need to go any further into that but we do have room in that corner for where the septic is proposed terms of other site um accessories we'll call it the the site lighting was was previously approved it was noted I believe in Mr Peter's memo about lighting levels the lighting design is unchanged the ordinance is unchanged there was technical design waivers granted for that again no change to that whatsoever um Anthony if You' be so kind to put up A4 I do want to show the board and we didn't submit this previously um because our office didn't prepare but there was a Bryce Bennett is a landscape architect that's appeared in front of this board um I believe numerous times it's a large file so it's going to take a little to a load HE prepared a final landscape plan for the approval and what you can see here there's two sheets I'll start here you could see obviously the the driveway going right through the middle he has trees lining the drive we're not seeking Street trees and the reason is is because we're seeking to maintain some of the wooded vegetation along cville Road except for what needs to be cleared for sight distance there's the Basin um and then if you can go to sheet two you'll see the rest of the site um I'm sorry sheet one yes there you go so sheet one will show the parking lot and the building and and what's proposed there for landscaping and a couple other things that I do want to make mention was part of the prior approval so you see the drive Tree Line we have trees um on the parking Islands the refu enclosure is screened on all three sides we do have some Landscaping in the front of the building as you can see what you see at the North Side here is a row of evergreens um those Evergreens were proposed as a condition of the prior approval due to the the folks that live to the north not only is that an evergreen screen and those are those are those are banked parking spaces there too but this is for that was for future expansion we're proposing evergreen trees and a 3ft burm two or three foot BM under those trees to further provide separation from the parking lot to uh the residential uses to the north um so Our intention is not to change this planting scheme whatsoever this was also Mr Bennett who prepared this plan also prepared the tree removal plan that resulted in the clearing that you saw on the first exhibit believe A3 that I had asked to be pulled up so in terms of tree removal and tree replacement it's our position that that's already been approved and vetted out because the trees were have already been removed and we're not seeking to take any more down um that's what I have right now for direct Miss Jen well there was one question from the board member regarding uh fire access and I believe there is already fire access proposed on the building that was approved for the church yep and with the Fire official understanding the board memb uh comment and concern the Fire official did have comments in the 2021 application we fully address them to the point where he signed off on them but we have a stabilized fire drive here to serve that that side of the building and then this as you see the drive here circulates as well so fire truck can circulate where it's pav and then beyond here um it was fully approved by the Fire official at that point um which led to the beginning of the construction process which stopped um if if he has any further comments we'll we'll obviously look into them Mr presid yes yes sir um I have a couple of questions sure uh when you mentioned generator you said consider it later why would it be considered now when you have security cameras LIC and if you lose power your security th offs whatever you lose power to that why would you not put a generator on the original yeah that that'll be up to Mr pearlstein um like I said we do have the ability to do that what's that pear answer that yeah he just testified just testified yes say yes basically my board member is going to request that the uh generator be a condition of approval that's fair Pro I a second question and I'm not going to cover fire but uh can you go over the driveway into the facility the width and how many lanes it is sure if you could put back up A1 if you could just zoom in on the the entrance intersection over here you don't mind so you can see here it's 24t wide and it allows two-way flow it's two lane um driveway and that that 24 ft carries through all the way to the building my question is and I understand I don't know if it's right ter handle that have in the back where fire trucks can all that stuff and have their round how do they get in if this road gets blocked how do you have another access in can you make it wider so there R that's not used or something I mean once we've had these applications come in before and I'm sorry I go back to many years ago when we went to cxs and years ago I think the only person that's really I can testify to is Mr Peters and Mr Cay we had an ordinance controlling lengths of roadways like that and col sax the safety Reas and how many C that that's gone rsis so I I think we have to find a way when we have these lengths of roadway in one way in and one way out that we have to get a room for a a a dead lane or a shoulder that's not used or something that would help that something happens in that roadway has blocked emergency vehicles of any type can get in is there any room on an application for that he I think you're lead like if the road happened to be blocked I don't I don't not sure what situation would do that but there could be an emergency well well it's a two-way Road nobody squ you have head-on collision two lanes are blocked it's not a it's not a an out line may never happen right but you know when you only got one lane each way it don't take long to foul it up and block it a swerve somebody else swerves you got two lanes blocked I'm looking at if you have two lanes blocked I'm not saying make it a five line highway but what can we do either off to the side or something to put uh even grass papers with the cement papers something on the side so an emergency vehicle could get past that we could we could stabilize the grass with with a base system um whether it's a emergency turnoff of this drive or something like that but we could stabilize the shoulder on one side to allow for that I think it's important because you have up by the school you testified you have the room for the fire drops but you got a to be able to get there first understood I like a stipulation to that another Point uh when I was on the board when we approved this initial use we were talking about cars we're now talking about buses that's different so I think Mr brei and I are thinking the same thing we've been approving schools uh and we've always asked for a a wide access so that for safety reasons please um we have had applications as as the chair has said um and those applications uh were adjusted to have a Boulevard instead of a two-lane entrance do you you know with a wide middle uh Center um I can I it looks to me like there's room on the plans for that is that a possibility it is it is a possibility sure yes stipulation one of the answers that came up prior that Mr Su was referring to uh they put an island down the middle and made it with mountable curbs no treeing and stuff just to keep it open that a car a truck could Zig over it and go over it and so forth but something to that nature on the side I I think is definitely a safety issue we need yeah another consideration again I'm thinking back because I was on this board when we did approve and because it was minimal use I mean one day a week two maybe um and cars uh now we're we're dealing with buses is there going to be any onsite or off-site improvements uh turn Lanes um I'm I visited the site this morning I'm envisioning buses leaving there uh twice a day coming in maybe hold those questions for John Ray he's looked at that that would be good but also um I always ask the same thing is there a possibility of solar previously it was only a use of a building on uh uh really occasionally once or twice a week now it's six days a week um and that means a lot more burden on the infrastructure so uh would you please consider uh you installing solar to take care of some of these uh infrastructure issues and I think the we're getting an answer here and our professionals at this point is there anything that hasn't been satisfactorily answered well well just think about it while we're just to address the solar he said he'll look into it but we don't want to make that a condition of the approval that we have to do solar but we'll look into it obviously if it's going to save the money they'll do it but if it's not practical they're not going to do it six day week use into 9 o' at night 9 o'clock at night means lit classrooms thank thank you m while we have the um um the entrance um uh drawing up is there any difference between the improvements the cville road now um with the um School versus what was proposed um with the church no and we do have to go we will be seeking because of the change of use seeking approval from the County planning board just to verify that the county Improvement plan is still to their satisfaction Mr Ry will testify as to the actual access and types of vehicles and how that may play with the county but from a site perspective no change okay um we we'll wait for Mr Ray but just you know kind of knee-jerk that if this limited improvements were okay for the um the church just based on the increase of traffic buses it seems like there should be additional Road improvements but we'll leave it for Mr wri um and the only other comment regarding the um the septic system you I think had indicated that if they needed more area that could potentially encroach into the buffer there's a right now the way the plan was shown well it's not it's not up there was a the conditional use of the house of worship was a 50ft perimeter buffer that's what I was referring to not we're seeking to maintain that as needed except unless the septic system needs to be expanded into it we do have room around the septic to go away from the buffer a little closer to the building but we have to make sure we maintain that separation from the building too I I would want to see if there was going to be well I think there's obviously going to be an enlargement to the disposal field but if the disposal needs to be enlarged that it go into the site versus encroaching into the buffer that and that would be our preference too was we we prefer not to revisit the tree removal and replacement um standards thanks manager that's it for now Mr Peters anything from you I don't think we heard anything about where students are going to get picked up and dropped off I think it was just sort of generalized students are going to get dropped off so I don't know which of the Witnesses are going to give us that testimony but seeing as how we have a change in use the most intense portion of the change in use is the idea we're going to be dropping 140 students off in a short period of time five days a week so I I think we probably just need to similar to other applications we may have seen we're used to having an understanding of what we think works um but at some point we have to get get it on the record from someone what their plan is for this um I think Mr Ward actually address that already and we're talking three or four buses [Music] um you want to reiterate where yeah why don't you just go through the circulation plan again just to if you could pan out just a little bit just you even show the main Drive is where obviously the buses will enter the site but if you can go to the right um side of the page where we see the the school if you could zoom in on the this area thank you so the intention and this was the the design for the church was that this was going to be a drop off area as well that's why that we have that circulation and it's it's accessible as well um the plan was for the buses to to come there's a covered area here at the front door drop the kids off and exit the property there is uh and again I think we're talking about three or four school buses but there is room here for queuing when they all come in the morning and then when the buses are picking up the children so that's where they'll that's where pickup and drop off will occur in this area you know I I did busing for many years and I assume these students are coming from a variety of locals so it might not be three or four buses it could be six or seven buses picking up here picking up here picking up here from different townships so is there a walkway that goes across the front of that building that you could drop off uh not just Under The Canopy area yeah there is so there's an entrance P well call it like a well coming area here that is connected actually to a couple of the building entrances so the way this building designed is the main level that Mr Pearl was talking about is actually up higher it's almost the second floor and there's a walk out basement here where that multi-purpose room is so it's everything is connected with accessible routes to the front door down and around also across the drive and there's this entrance area which as previously designed was going to be the main way the congregants were going to enter the the church similar to that it is it is a an additional area for drop off that can still get direct the students directly to the front door where they should enter thank you you're welcome Mr Ward what about sorry what about parents dropping off I mean similar to that uh Mr Peters they could dve they could park in the parking any parking stall and walk walk into the front they can use this we we anticipate the main drop off will be here where that covered area is for school buses I think that you know we we we believe the parents will use this area not jam up where the school buses drop off our concern a lot of the reports and I know you you didn't do the traffic report the general rule of thumb is 10% of the students show up with parents so if we have four or five or six buses and 14 cars we're looking not to mix the buses and the cars in the morning um and I think that's probably it's fair the fulcrum of the the drop off pickup debate is trying to keep passenger vehicles and the school buses separated somehow and I think to take that a step further and that's a great point is we can put small signage to direct the buses and the buses are obviously more controllable than the parents but direct the parents to one way and the buses to so as a condition of approval the applicant agrees to circulation signage yes yeah subject yet to the board professional review thank you I mean I'm just really looking at this I'm hearing three or four buses I live on a culdesac and I have about eight or nine buses on the average day so you know it's really very minimal um you know just hearing you know the bus traffic very different again I live down the block from St ALS and you know St Al is used seven days a week um you know it's really not much different than the use that's being proposed there 15 cars 20 car cars every day multiple times a day and you know the site works it functions now they have um school buses they have a they have a school over there for special needs children you know the bus is line up and it works there are more than four or five buses but most residential blocks in Jackson do have four to five buses today it's not you know it's not it's it's not something out of the ordinary so we're hearing about intersection improvements again I don't know what is really needed the roads are built to handle three four five six buses you know that's typical so thank you thank you yeah um I'm going to elaborate a little bit on the driveway first of all the the driveway is 700 feet or 800t to the parking lot then you have to include the parking lot which spot with another couple hundred feet uh yeah roughly to the front door yeah so here's part of the problem like what Mr pressy was bringing up that's a th000 foot St stretch for a fire truck just to the curb on cville road uphill uh all you may actually have to put a pumper in the middle to pump water to make it go all the way Mr CH could you get a little closer to the mic to make sure it's functioning that better much thank you so point being width of the road you may have school buses people panic bus going around a car they get caught up fire truck so there is a big spatial issue uh apparently there's no curbs of sidewalks there's no curb on the most of the drive parking lot has curb um throughout so if there had to be a mass evacuation and it snowed a little bit there's no way for anybody to get out past the parking lot what do you mean by well sometimes if you do have a major incident in the school you have to get everybody out you you're not going to stack the kids in the parking lot they have to walk past the parking lot correct where they going to go so one of my concerns is we like to build these nice beautiful places no curves and sidewalks for them to get out and you're going to have people going in and out so where are they going to walk God forbid we have to walk them down to the street you have no no no way for them to get out which is one of my concerns with the fire part of it again is this building subject to sprinklers now that it's a change of use that is out of my purview Mr okay so part of the concern again which backing up Mr bressy is a generator because you have a well so you would need a large well sprinklers especially if you're can invest a lot of money into a school it's going to be a little while to get water and everything else in there so unless there's a large system area that's well fed and then the fire department can draft out of it so that's kind of the reasoning why the The Wider Road and the the the generator is necessary you know and it's a great expense but it's about safety now you know you have 140 boys and staff you're talking 160 170 people by the time you're done plus visitors so it it is a life Hazard and as for you know the septic of course going to going be a massive change for the septic because you're going from a couple hours a day maybe couple times a day couple days a week to every day several times a day so but it appears you may have to land so I'm just I'm just putting on a record that is a massive change but again the road it's not us being picky it's important I drove a fire truck and people panic you get one panic one situation you can lose the whole Road way or you have a fire truck that's there pumping and we may have to bring other equipment in it gets tight so that's kind of to reate everything that was said understood appreciate this and and just just so the record is clear so the the applicant will be um making the the application subject to fire safety review correct correct and the recommendations made yeah Mr yeah Mr Trum reminded me of something years past when we had a build that required a sprinkler system and they were on well they had to put in a forget the exact gallons or 20 30,000 gallon tank in the ground to handle that sprinkler system till they can get their hoses or if they have to pump 2,000 feet however you do it put a pumper in the middle or whatever I'm not into that you you guys know that but it's got to be something that can handle that sprinkler system and react and not run out of water um well we'll work with the fire if that's what they require us to do if it's required under the law we have to do that yeah so so what happens in these type of situations um the the the the fire tank um and the uh septic tank is actually kind of like a similar situation where if they put it in and it go it creates a variance or creates a waiver type situation they have to come back U before the board right so just everybody's clear they they have to basically reappear in front of us and start scratch and and ask for the approval all over again because they're asking for an additional um you know set of circumstances so uh maybe an additional waiver uh possibly a variance depends on the situation so if they get that far into resolution compliance and the EP comes back or fire comes back and says uhuh you got this has got to be over here or it's got to be this big and the only way to do that um is to position it this way and this way interferes with a buffer or another aspect of the original approval then they have to come back before us and ask for you know our approval again so there checks and balancing here uh just so so it's not going to be a bait and switch situation Mr rker okay uh I didn't get a chance to speak before but what I would suggest um I understand the width of the road what I would suggest is creating like a three foot shoulder on each side six you know that would get you six or eight foot wider on the entire Road that's going to help solve a pedestrian issue should you have to evacuate the building because let's face it if it's on fire we don't want occupants anywhere near watching whatever what I would also suggest uh to make firefighting and just if you get a dead bus Which happens take a 40 foot pullover Lane just just a little sweep and put that in the middle uh that serves two purposes one it's a it's a dead spot if someone needs a queue you know Mom and Dad are waiting for the kid to come it gets you your queue for your car it gets you a queue for a dead bus but more importantly it gets you a place to put a fire engine and I'll speak in in terms of this it's a long way off the road it's a beautiful project but if you had an 8 8 in ductal pipe running 1,000 feet just to fill the pipe just to fill a hose uh and and Ray I forget if if uh ldp is eight or 10 it's been a while for me but you're looking at 8,000 gallons now near winterbury there is a very old tank I think it's 11 or 12200 gallons that's been out there I can't remember the last time it was serviced uh but that's the only water that's out there when a truck comes you're lucky if it has 1,500 gallons on it uh we have one tanker in town and that holds I think 6,000 gallons it takes 20 minutes to fill it round trip off a fire HD so what I'm doing is I'm giving you a picture in a real world scenario that if you had a very bad moment and you had a fight a fire just to fill the line you know you're you're you're zapping every piece of apparatus that has water until you get a a proper water supply it's exacerbated by the beauty of the project being so far set off the road so my my calming suggestions would be that little bump out for a fire truck for mom and dad to park there to stay out of the way to queue it's a real simple thing it could be even grassy pavers if you want to PVE it great uh but you know just something that would give a little bit of relief and you could get three uses out of it uh that would be my suggestion and I would really consider um when you talk to the fire guys about a remote connection just running a dry piece of duck top pipe all the way out there because I would hope in modern Jackson time that you would get on public water uh which would be great uh just just a suggestion I know it's a long road uh but I'm thinking in the change of use based on the uh the load of the building I understand Miss Jennings it's the exact same building I applaud you for keeping with the Landscaping which I argued over intensely yes um but I'm just approaching it more as a life safety so that if God forbid there is a fire it's it's out quickly and you're not losing the benefit of the building right so so just on that is the applicant amendable to pull over Lane as a condition of approval it makes sense to me that's what I thought uh Mr Bry was originally talking about but it sounds like yes I think that's I I think it's a simple thing and with grassy pavers it'll work uh and it it serves three uses it's a lowcost impact and you mentioned the dry doct L and pipe system that was a condition of the Fire official last time it's actually already proposed which is okay great yeah it will remain that's worth it it's going to be great for your insurance as well I thank you anybody else from the board all right thank you and then just two more two more things as a matter of course uh the widening uh the entrance for the Ingress erress the applicants going to make that condition approval as well right with the the pavers I guess I believe that was for you know adding the 3ot shoulder on side that's what I mean the exension of the shoulder we'll consult with the applicant about the material and make sure it has to be St regardless of material but yes that that yes and then any the actual entrance itself will it's going to save you from sidewalk because you know honestly do you really want to put in 2,000 ft of sidewalk that's nice but do you really want to snowblow 2,000 feet of sidewalk in the winter and and put ice ice to turn down I wouldn't thank you those are very good and improvements we appreciate that uh just just one more thing to the uh traffic safety unit letter do you want the engineer to address this m Mrs Jennings or do you want the traffic safety expert it's up to you as long as I have it yeah just one thing it's Miss Jennings not M Miss J sorry about that thank you okay we'll call up uh the witness of the hour traffic John Ry he might he might get a CAU as well a designated spot parking place for him himself long time no ceas Ranger all right do you swear or FM to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name and spell your last for the record John Ray re EA and does the board accept the credentials because he's been in front of us quite a few times sure do thank you very much thank you John for the record um you're office prepared a traffic impact analysis dated November 21st 2023 yes we did if you could just describe your findings and conclusions for the board and I know that you've been listening in the audience and to address the questions that are raised by the board members and their Consultants sure well first of all we uh my my office did the original traffic study for the house of worship I guess the file was opened in 2018 and I think we received our approval in 2021 if I'm not mistaken it took some time so we were familiar with the property having done the traffic impact study for the house of worship uh clearly there has been a change in what is proposed the school is going to have different peak hours than the church uh we kind we focused on the Sunday morning peak hours for the church in terms of our traffic analysis so what we needed to do was go back revisit the site uh there's a T intersection just to the north of our driveway Winterberry Court is the name of the street we went back we did did updated traffic counts at Winterberry Court and cville Road Boulevard Winterberry Boulevard we did updated traffic counts at that location during the morning peak hour when the traffic would be arriving for the school and then we focused on the Friday afternoon hour because school is going to let out at 1:00 in the afternoon on Friday and we did counts on a Friday afternoon between 1: and 2: p.m. uh during Monday through Thursday the school is going to let let out at 9:00 I went back and I reviewed the automatic traffic counts that we uh conducted back uh when we did the traffic study for the church we placed a hose across cville Road and I can tell you that the traffic volumes from 9:00 to 10:00 in the evening are literally 1/4th of what they are during the peak hours on cville road uh the traffic volumes drop off substantially so we didn't think that the Monday through Thursday dismissal time of 9:00 was going to be an issue but we did go back and do traffic counts on Friday afternoon after doing our traffic analysis and assuming that we have 10% of the students being dropped off by parents the balance of the students that will that would be out of 140 students roughly rounded up to 15 uh students being dropped off and 125 students being transported by bus if things are run efficiently we could do that with three buses I assumed five buses in the traffic study I assume 12 staff we looked at the traffic numbers we projected traffic volumes to a design year of 2033 in accordance with the Ocean County planning board protocol they want to look at a 10-year Horizon and we calculated the levels of service for our site driveway and the level of service for the morning peak hour for exiting traffic on the cville road will be a C Level of service for the afternoon peak hour will be a d level of service which is still acceptable uh anything at level of service e or better will be acceptable so the first thing we concluded was that the site driveway will operate within acceptable traffic engineering parameters and at acceptable levels of service for both the morning peak hour and the Friday afternoon dismissal peak hour with respect to some of the other uh comments that I've been listening to I would point out um and and this is also in the Jackson Police uh report that we received there was a question about left turns into the site driveway and Anthony if we could pull up A3 is this A3 I think there's a better picture of the site and the site driveway actually that'll work right there our Sight Drive is located 142 ft Center Line to Center Line with Winterberry Boulevard and as uh it doesn't really show on this plan but there is a widened shoulder on the west side of cville road there's a 12ft shoulder which will easily allow a vehicle to bypass anybody waiting to make a left turn into our driveway the Shaded area that Mr ward has shown on the site plan in this area represents a widening that Ocean County required when we did the application for the house of worship so essentially what's going to wind up happening with this approval with the county we're going to widen the east side of cville road to match the 12T shoulder that's already on the west side of cville road and essentially what this will do is quite frankly make it a little bit easier for people to make the left turn into Winterberry Boulevard because now there'll be room to bypass somebody waiting to make the left turn into Winterberry Boulevard because the widen that we will do on our side of the road which will essentially be a mirror image of what already exists on the west side of the road so I think that'll be an improvement outside of that the the circulation plan Mr ward has gone over it our operator has discussed with you the the hours of operation the number of students uh I do agree with uh with Mr Ward that we can uh Bank some of the parking spaces I think if we go back and look at the site plan you can see some of the parking parking spaces were shaded I do believe those are the parking spaces that we're going to bank that we're not going to construct unless they're necessary and based on the operation as it's been described to the board and to me I don't think we're going to need those parking spaces so in my estimation they'll probably never get built and that about summarizes it any board members questions professionals questions um just quick now Mr R the extent of the curbing in sidewalk along cville uh it runs the length of our Frontage uh Mr Ward May um give you a little bit more detail Doug but the plan is to have curbs and sidewalks across the entire Frontage I I don't know about sidewalks P you okay hang on curbs no sidewalks curbing no sidewalks but the full width of the property the entire cell Road brage curbing for the full width Pat um and you you would contribute to The Pedestrian safety fund for the absence of sidewalks they said they did it already the church did it fair enough thank you no double dipping Mr Peters anything from you Mr Ray cville is under County jurisdiction yes it is has the the county reviewed the revised report for the revised use I'm not certain Mr Peters uh I know they reviewed the original study for the house of worship I don't know what the status of the new County application is to be honest with you thank you just real quick so the um when it comes down to the the county you said the county already approved the expansion of the roadway yes okay so that's already in the works but they just but the application for the school just hasn't been reviewed yet or or we don't it's somewhere in the process and we just don't know where it is I didn't make the application so I'm not certain we have a conditional approval according to Mr Ward Madam chair yes sir respectfully to Mr Shay it is different because the peak hours are different so the impact on winterbury is different well that's where I was yeah so the needs to look at it and tell the town and the residents that they've met the standards that are required by the county yeah under this report so that's a no we don't disagree with that I agree with you Mr Peters we have to have County approval as well there's a change yeah where I was going with it was that the the statement of operations obviously now attached to this and a matter of record so as a result of that and the fact that that was based on your study that now has got to be reviewed by the county yes it will yes so as a condition of approval SCH which you know we agree yes all right um if the uh three uh gentlemen who have uh um given testimony would just move to the front please because we're going to open the to the public for uh questions sure just to make it EAS iier for the public now when uh when we go through this process these are going to be questions directed to the applications and the testimony given no General comments this is just for the residents to speak and address the three gentlemen who made testimonies so so basically what we're going to have is we're going to have a two-step process right um when we do one of these board hearings there's a lot of you in the room I don't know which application you guys are here for so we're we're going to cover all the bases here um with this we're going to have first section is going to be for cross-examination of any of their Witnesses um the second set second situation is going to be just general comments so differentiation of both of those is the first part you're basically just going any direct questions you have of that applicant that's directly relevant to the testimony that they put on you're going to ask him then any general statements that you how you feel about it or anything like that then you put on in the second General uh comment section just in case you you have one versus the other I just don't want to see anybody get confused or come up and waste your time at the podium when it's really the second section as opposed to the first or vice versa right um and and seems to be a predominant conversation that we have on a frequent basis but when it comes down to traffic if anybody has any traffic questions for uh Mr Ray um what happens at the planning board level is that we have a different type of jurisdiction than that of the zoning board at the at the planning board level we can only take into consideration the traffic that comes through the the Ingress and egress of the entrance area an exit way and we can only look at the efficiency of that and the the safety in Hazard of that type of situation and then the circulation plan that happens inside of the site plan itself we can't take a look at off-site traffic and and use that as a means to um to weigh the application or deny it or or um review it or anything like that that is an immediate uh denial immediate reversal at a um Superior Court level so we the planning board by way of case law and Superior Court law cannot take that the offsite traffic in consideration a little bit different to the zoning board the zoning board can it's just Municipal land use law so if you do have any questions for Mr Ray just keep it to the Ingress and egress uh you know traffic efficiency safety or the internal circulation of the plan all right so you're welcome to approach the um Podium if you have any questions for any of the gentleman who gave testimony hello there please raise your right hand all right you swear to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right you're not represented by Council correct no you have to speak into the microphone because we're being recorded okay all right please state your name uh spell spell your last for the record Kristen Holman h o m an and your address uh 567 winterbury Boulevard um I have a couple questions when was the survey done for the traffic like what month any year the morning Peak ARA counts were done on November 2nd 2023 the Friday afternoon counts on October 27th 2023 and there was something that went across the road we had put a hose that across the road for the previous application for the um the house of worship but for this particular application since we looked at the the statement of operations and we knew when the peak hours for the school would occur we updated our traffic counts only during those peak hours okay and the school goes from Sunday to Friday am I correct Monday through Friday if I'm not mistaken yeah Monday through Frid Friday and what time do they get in and what time do they get out it's Sunday they don't have they have school on Sunday they have school on Sunday Sunday Sunday to Friday okay six days and what time do they get there 8:00 in the morning if I'm not mistaken correct 8 8:00 is arrival and they leave when 9:00 in the evening on every day except Friday which 1:00 1:00 and Friday and I work for the district I drive as a school bus driver for the district I not only leave Winterberry every single day a 100 times a day I take my children everywhere I also drive up and down 571 and pick up children and bring them to elm's school and I bring them to get school did we take any of the buses into consideration of how that's going to affect us getting to the school cuz I don't know if you've ever seen at 8:00 a.m. trying to get out of Winterberry bouard yes I have I have to stop my bus to let other buses out because the traffic will not let us go I understand and yes the school buses were counted and they're included in the analysis yes and I've been out there during peak hours yes and you've seen how school buses sit there for a good 10 minutes beforehand it happens all over all it happens all over the township and every Township in the state across the country correct I have lived here my entire life and I have seen how dangerous these Jackson roads are they are not kind they are not considerate they you'll have blood on your hands with these cars going in out of the I'm just saying it's dangerous I have 53 kids on my school bus six times a day I don't trust anybody on these roads I have to take my time I treat them like they're my own children and the fact that we have to now take another 140 students into consideration granted the school is fine just maybe not there it's not a good spot you're having one way in one way out making the traffic lane the way you're making the traffic lane if a school bus is going towards the school to say Elms or patter or Patterson Road and other school other cars are trying to make a left into that school you're going to have cars trying to pass other cars and you're going to be getting hit going into the school if you're going to make that shoulder I'm on that road a 100 times a day and it is not a safe situation especially with the amount of school buses Elm School District Elm School has 30 buses going into it in the morning and 30 buses coming out of it get school has probably 35 to 40 and there's 53 kids on each one of those buses and I as a Township living in a Township I don't see how safe this is you also have one exit and one entrance to that school it's just not safe where it's at on that corner that's all I have to okay well I I I don't think there was a question there but all I can say to respond the question was how is that how is that how is that safe we we meet all applicable proper engineering standards and it's a County Road and the County's approved the driveway location before they'll approve it again because we meet all proper engineering standards that's all I can say will there be through traffic now that goes through onto Winterberry will there be through traffic now that we have it's a it's a residential area going to have if anybody lives off Winterberry that has a child that goes to this school it's possible they might drive them to the school it's possible and I can guarantee you there's probably not 15 cars showing up there if they're coming from all over Lakewood how is it or Lakewood or Tom's River or howl or wherever these children are coming from they're going to guarantee that it's only five buses picking up that many children I think I estimated conservatively five buses because you just said you drive a school bus and they hold 53 children we're going to have 120 roughly that are bus 125 if we do it efficiently it's three buses I assumed five bus Keep a Child on a bus for an hour and a half to pick all of them up to bring to school I'm not a school transportation expert but I know how many kids can get on a school bus that's all thank you thank you anyone else race [Laughter] right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but Truth for the record yes I do please State your name spell your last for the record Bob Dio d i p p o l d 10 ASP court all right um You said that you're going to expend the shoulder uh that was the agreement that and I believe your testimony also said that's going to have ample space for people to go around you're going to have to be a little bit more specific the shoulder the shoulder on c one at a time guys one at a time when when you're Trav I'm just trying to answer your first question okay wait I'm trying to expand upon it when you're going Southbound on C and you're going to make a left into the school correct I believe you testified that the shoulder allows ample room to pass yes is it ever legal to pass on the left out of a lane in the state of New Jersey yes it is you can't use the shoulder as a travel Lane but you can bypass Vehicles yes you can't use the shoulder as a tra you can't use it as a travel Lane but you can bypass a left turning part of the studies with that did you do any observations of leeville Road yes I know leeville road is just to the South the same situation yeah and you believe that's a safe I'm not going to get into detail because let me let me explain it's an off-site Mr Shay explained that's an offsite intersection that I didn't look at it in detail but I'm familiar with the intersection how about and this is a chronic problem that I've had for 30 years living there cars parking on cville road right by Winterberry blocking the vision Now using the assumption that going to use that as a lane to bypass turning traffic will that be designated as no parking we can we can agree to that that's subject to the town if the town wants to restrict parking on C Road can I just finish please just please let me finish that's all if the town wants to restrict parking on casville Road in the vicinity of winterbury the county will not have an objection to it they can pass an ordinance we' done before and I think it would be a a prudent idea to we'll restrict but that's County so we have no we have we cannot do things on the county but it can be requested for it and I don't know if this is your ball game or the engineer 24 foot wide I think we're sort of agreeing that we're going to expand the driveway turning radius for a bus to get in there that's yes it's proper you could Mr ward has done a turning radius uh plan which I think is up on the screen right now if I'm not mistaken and it works yes and uh and there was no thought of maybe on the exit from the school of having a left end a right turning lane so you don't have a backup it's not necessary based on the volumes exiting the site in my opinion okay it was thought about but it's not necessary yes appreciate thank you thank you and anyone else yeah if you could stand in line so that we could move along a little quicker we do have two more uh applications tonight how you doing thank you Keith mwin all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth of the record yes sir all right and please state your name spell your last of the record Keith mwin all right m e r w n and your address your address sir oh 51 and need a drive thank you which is block 143 and my concern is when all the the wells and the septic are proved that you know everything would be up for a church now it's a school how many more Wells are we putting in expanding the septic uh I see Jackson owns a piece of property there and where we going how many Wells are we putting in and a traffic man so do we do we have a question visit me do we do we have a question for maybe the engineer well yeah I live there I try to get out on a need to drive every day and it's insane and then I know he can't answer but there's a new development you put a traffic light on 571 that's not even accounted for but we're we're getting in the general comment type comments you have do you have a a question for the engineer then yes how many more Wells are we putting in is it going to in a septic and is it going to affect you know there's no infrastructure here other than electric and gas so my concern is you know any runoff uh that's all um and one other thing well can we let him in one question at the time there's one septic system and one well would be proposed here it's 17 acre property so in terms of you know the density of that it's it's it's kind of light compared to the neighboring properties but only one of each um both subject to Outside Agency review and approval which does monitor you know potential impacts beyond the property so it's it's not just us to make sure we don't impact you the state will be involved in that as well okay I do had another question monor it and make sure you know another question sir excuse me did you have another question no that was it that's my concern understood this is you know we're in a residential area and we're putting a school in the middle of it and doesn't sound good at all thank you thank you anyone else Michael 47 need to drive hang on hang there's a process we have to we have to record so okay sorry all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth of the record yes I do all right please state your name and spell your name for the last Michael nordland n o r d l n d 47 I need to drive all right for the engineer you were talking about a grass buffer or a hedge buffer on the North side what about the south side so the north well we have a 50-ft buffer to the South um already the north side was a was a condition of the prior approval that I identified we're maintaining it was a buffer and burn okay I was just curious about the property itself after hours how is that going to be secured you were talking about cameras is that going to happen and somebody's going to be able to monitor that property because you could set a bonfire in that middle of that property and wouldn't be able to see it from cville Road I believe that's what the applicant stated okay that's all I got thank you thank you ma'am all right Elaine Kowalski oh hang on please raise your right hand all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth or the record I do all right please state your name and spell your last name elain Kowalski k o w a l s k i Jackson New Jersey um what was your address one more time I live in Jackson right but you're specific why are you requiring him addess because I I get this this question a lot so what it goes to the weight of your testimony so what happens is that you have to be a Jackson resident this there's case LA on this I'm not just making this up I'm a Jackson resident yeah I I I understand that we have have to identify right I can't just take a a certification from you we have to have a physical address for you identifying you as a Jackson resident so do you have a Jackson yes I do okay can you put on the record please to it's on Diamond Road okay do you have an address does your professionals also let us know where they live I'm curious about that there what I'm telling you is that there's case law on the fact that it goes to the the essence of what you're putting on record I don't know what the purpose is I'm a Jackson rather I've been here 45 years I understand and I believe you what I'm saying to you is that the Supreme Court of New Jersey requires this so agree with them I disagree with it because I've been here for several other meetings and it's not been required when because somebody puts their address on the record I don't ask them to do it when they don't do it there's been several occasions where I've had to ask and request them to do it okay is it the audience's business to know where I live it is the open public meetings act and yes it is it goes to the weight of your testimony I'm I'm just I'm say telling you that this is case law I didn't make this up this is how Municipal luse law operates okay I spoke at the last meeting it's 322 Diamond Road good that is there you go thank you thank you so I don't know which specialist handles the septic system I can answer generally okay there was some question about the septic system um are there hold holding tanks there just like are our household holding tanks yeah again I wasn't involved with the original application septic design and approval but there will be a septic tank or tanks before a disposal field like a con like any other conventional septic system it just be larger okay were these approvals for the CH the other plan that was presumed earlier and yeah it was I believe it was a gravity system with a septic excuse me septic tank and then the disposal field which you can see on the plants okay does it get maintained does it get pumped because like in a residential home you have four people or six people but we're talking about 170 people so that's all going to go into the ground so is there a monthly plan or something that you know it's going to be cleaned out or maintained so the the tanks themselves do have to be pumped out um on a regular basis there is a yes and I can't speak to the frequency at this moment in time um but yes they will need to be maintained and pumped okay because of the residents in the area are are very concerned about that understood okay thank you thank you thank you all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth and the hold truth through the record I do all right uh say your name and spell your last Elizabeth Hills h i l LS all right and your address 686 Anderson Rood I just have two general question if you could speak into the microphone because we're recording thank you I just have two general questions will the facilities be utilized for anything other than the boys high school no and will there be anything going on overnight at that facility no the applicant stipulates that it will only be used for Education correct the classes end at night they go home right thank you um just a question but it will also be a summer campus well right yes [Music] yeah uh just one question the summer camp will only be for the boys who attend the high school Poss possibly is not is not a stipulation we're we're looking for the 140 boys who are attending the high school basically yeah not basically we just want to know that there's no no one else coming to the summer camp except the students thank you thank you that's if you could line up please um or get closer so that we can get through this testimony questions more quickly thank you please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth for the record I do all right please state your name and spell your last Kelly diple di p p o l d 10 ASP in court um I'm not sure who this is for but um 140 144 students I've lived in Jackson 31 years I've seen many schools built and the enrollment going up um is there is that the minimum is that the maximum is there a potential for that to go up um please speak into the microphone is there a potential for the attendance of how many students to go up if it were to go up we'd have to come back to the board because this is for an application for 140 students so if we were to increase it parking gets impacted the SEPTA could be impacted other things could be impacted so we'd have to come back to the board okay um another question probably for the engineer the plot of land that's closest to cville what was that for again was that like a that Square close to the yes storm water man okay so there's nothing that can be built there or no okay okay thank you sorry thank you all right all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth of the record I do all right please state your name and spell your last Heather siden SEI DN on 640 Winterberry Boulevard right I just have a couple questions um I just want to go back to the traffic study so was that approved based on being able to pass in the shoulder headed southbound on 571 I I don't understand the question it hasn't been approved yet okay okay sorry I I'm this is new to me I'm trying to figure out how this works okay so if somebody's headed southbound on 571 and there is traffic backed up up 571 you're saying that that shoulder is wide enough that people can pass on the right and that's legal to pass on the right and we don't think that's a traffic concern or a safety hazard no okay and there's no sidewalk on that side or there is a sidewalk on that I'm not sure sidewalk in that side of cville I know we are not proposing it on our side and we're making a contribution to the township sidewalk fund which I think has already been made with prior application I'm I'm just curious if that would be a safety hazard if that's already a wide shoulder but now we're expecting people turning off of Winterberry to turn right into a shoulder because traffic has backed up um you said that the morning Peak study was conducted on November 2nd 2023 correct what were the hours of that that 7 in the morning till 8:00 in the morning and the peak hour occurred between 7:45 and 845 sorry I'm just updating my notes 7:45 to 8:45 was the peak you said peak hour correct okay and is there any reason that anybody would be at that school before 7 a.m. I don't believe so no okay teachers nobody shows up until exactly 8:00 when school starts well it'll show up before 88 but not before 7 okay there's no like prior to school starting students wouldn't arrive 8:00 that nobody's showing up before 8 school starts at school starts at 8 I've got to let Mr Perlman answer that okay and then you said that the afternoon was taken on November 27th of 2023 October 27th sorry October 27th of2 that was a Friday yes and what were the hours that was conducted uh 12: to 1 uh 12: to 2 because uh the school lets out at 1:00 so the critical peak hour for Friday is actually 1 to 2 o'clock understand and what about for the Sundays I have traffic counts I as I've indicated we did the church traffic study Church doesn't let let me finish okay we put an automatic traffic recorder out across cville Road they're pre pandemic counts they were done in 2018 I can tell you the Sunday volumes are significantly lower than the weekday peak hour volumes significantly lower about half as much but I'm still curious what what what the times were that those were conducted all right example the peak hour on Sunday was 3: to 4: in the afternoon with 800 cars in two directions on cville road the peak morning and afternoon hours consistent with commuted traffic are approximately 1,300 cars in two directions so it's a little bit more than half as much on Sunday but significantly lower you said 3: to 4 p.m. 500 cars lower than the morning and afternoon peak hours yes Sunday volumes are lower no question time that you you conducted that no no that was the peak hour on Sunday okay you know I can like later on the afternoon 5 to6 772 6 to7 589 that that the hose was across the road for the entire day from Midnight to midnight yes okay it was just a question that's all if traffic does back up on 571 does that mean that we're going to be rerouting traffic down Winterberry to bypass the school entrance I don't think that's going to happen no uh going back to the previous person who asked questions about the um number of students she asked if that's like an average I'm sorry is there a fire code for the max occupancy do we have what that number is so what H what happens with that is so when it comes down to aamc you're looking at um international business code international fire code issues that hand that is handled at building department level so it would go from what I'm saying is that it's out of our jurisdiction so we can't take that into consideration at the board level so that that would go towards when they're going to get the B building permits something like that they would have to comport with whatever the IBC requirements are understood and then can you tell me more about the summer camp what time does the summer camp run what months what days function as I I'm not sure when that is if you could just I don't have children in a summer camp I'm just asking basically it functions the same as the school so it's basically there prayers there's learning there's a little bit less learning there's a little bit more activities couple trips it's basically the same as the school you're not answering my question I'm sorry is it six days a week seven days a week 5 days a week four days a week is the same as the school okay Sunday through Sunday through Friday still the same hours 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. and then out on Fridays at 1:00 p.m. yes okay thank you thank you all right please raise your right hand do you swear or firmly tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do spell your name John Alexander a l x n d r I live at 642 Winterberry Boulevard Jackson thank uh I have one quick question regarding the uh environmental assessment was any uh endangered species uh analysis done particularly as it related to eastern brown bats and or bog Turtles so as I said earlier there's there was an Loi issued as part of the church application um and part of the review from the state when they're looking at Wetlands is also uh classification of threatened endangered species so there was no evidence of habitat if if I may sir uh my name is Jeff rker I'm the environmental chairman for Jackson Township and in respect to this application we do look at the Heritage databases that the state offers us to double check uh obviously I could take uh you know the each applicant for this size project would would uh submit an environmental impact statement we verify it we check it and in this case there is nothing there uh and in in respect if I was remiss or the applicant was remiss this does go to the D and if there was something there uh larger or egregious that needed to be protected as threatened or endangered species uh whatever tier it is they would come back and they would put the restriction on and you would see that in the form of a letter of interpretation like they do for the wetlands so in this case no you know there there are not there are significant wetlands in the vicinity correct well they okay for the wetlands and I'm going to educate the public so the international signal for something is going to happen near you you're going to get a a very short small plan and a letter it says applicant such and such has submitted to the D for a letter of interpretation and what that means is you have meets and Bounds that this gentleman has prepared where that are his assumptions his professional observations that's all well and good and fine they submit to the DP sometimes it takes months it depends on what the D is up to it gets done faster in the summer because they interns but they will come back and verify what those delineations are and what you can do and there are some adjustments that can be made back and forth that has happened for the first part of this application and that will still stand because I Believe Miss Jennings um you're still in that um documents are useful for a certain period of time uh and I believe that we are in that certain period of time uh um the one thing that I will caution the public is I get it all the time is what about the subsurface well the subsurface hasn't changed in millions of years so as it was 20 40 years ago we accept that for what it is because it's just the way it is but in this case to answer your question effectively uh there are no threatened or endangered species and that was confirmed through the environmental commission using the cage databases that we have through uh to our availability which are the same as the state so we we double check to make sure I appreciate it uh is there going to be any kind of conservation easement issue you would have to ask the The Preserve what the uh buffers are currently so there is no restriction like there will be no conservation restriction but any tree removal beyond what was previously approved would require the township to review a new application so we're not proposing any additional tree removal from what's already been cleared at this point there's not going to be any conservation easements on the property correct to minimize any further expansion there nothing is proposed all right thank you thank you all right please raise your right hand you swear affirm that tell the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do all right say your name spell your last Alice Alexander a l x a n d r 642 Winterberry Boulevard I apologize if this was already discussed I came in a few minutes late I was curious if students we would be allowed to walk to school no okay thank you hi um Tara Hoffman pleas please raise your right hand right you swear or affirm that tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last Tara Hoffman c f f ma one banion court and I was just wondering I know there's a lot of approvals that have to go on but is there a general time frame for this project I don't know if that's this is the right time to ask that some projects take two years some never get built okay yeah thank you through the chair May um maybe we should explain to the public um what the time limits are when an approval is given okay once once an approval is given it's it's approved so it's there forever all right so if if they go through resolution compliance and everything is taken care of um and correct me if I'm wrong Mrs Jennings board professionals but um it's pretty much once the resolution is there it's written in stone and then the the approval runs with the land um a lot of lot of individuals end up sitting on approvals for a little while and selling the property with the approval attached to it um some developers specifically just do that um it's part of their business model um and that is it so um since you asked me Mr Shay you're half correct there you go the approval runs with the land as long as there's no ordinance change if the ordinance is changed you use lose your period of protection so when you have a final approval you got two years you come in get three one-year extensions uh this approval for the church though was already acted upon so their approval is perfected and so they are protected from an ordinance change all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name for the record Sylvester Fritz RC 7 benan Court Jackson New Jersey so first staying with the environmental aspect uh have the permits been uh obtained and approved thep permits yes for the LOI and does that include the latest storm water management rules that went into effect recently so it was our testimony that we're going to work with the board professionals on um ensuring that the design of the grading and drainage is um compliant with all the stipulations of the new ordinances and that will include additional impervious areas that potentially were discussed and will be uh addressed if if there are additional impervious areas at our result we were talking about stabilized areas and and turn off Lanes okay thank you uh one more question for traffic uh so was the queuing for for the cars traveling south on 571 County Road very busy road was the queuing taken um taken into account that does it extend into the Winterberry will not extend to Winterberry it'll be one vehicle uh during most of the time during the morning peak hour and we have 142 F feet Center Line to Center Line will not extend to Winterberry okay and uh did the traffic counts uh consider the summer summer uh tra traffic I I've done tra traffic counts in the summer in Jackson and unless you're right at by Six Flags somewhere what I can tell you is because of the lack of school traffic General School traffic in the summer generally speaking the peak hour traffic volumes in the summer are equal to or a little bit lower than the volumes when schools are open unless of course route on 537 by six flakes this is a a popular route to to the uh Tums River and seesi Heights I think we see you know extended traffic sum not not during the hours that the school is going to operate but over a 24-hour period or on a weekend you may be right but not during the General hours that the school will operate okay all right thank you thank you all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right spell your name and Howard Klein kle n 64 Winterberry Boulevard than for traffic so it's to my understanding that you're going to allow people to pass in the shoulder uh I'm not going to allow people to pass in the shoulder they already do it saying that that you're making the shoulder wider so people can pass in the shoulder we're going to widen our side of casville to be like a mirror image of what you already have on your side it is illegal and you can get a careless driving ticket get to allow those people pass I'm not sure I understand I said it's legal to pass a left turning vehicle on the shoulder but it is not legal to use the shoulder as a travel line but you're you're saying you're allowing people to use that shoulder pass I'm not allowing people to do anything that's how you're going to alleviate the traffic it's illegal to pass to use a shoulder to pass people we have a difference of opinion I don't I don't think the Jackson Police have ever issued a ticket for that it's illegal in the state of New Jersey to pass the shoulder I will trust you on that one hope I don't get pulled over next time I do it it it it is there's a statute for it it's illegal I agree with you thank you anyone else for the applicants at this time seeing no one come forward make a motion to close public session second rker no that was that was cross session number one now we're moving on to public session number two which is General comments thank you about this application all right all right does anybody want to come forward for public comment and just to be clear we're going to have with the public comment uh we're going to have a five minute limitation on everybody's uh comments all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes all right please state your name spell your last mosa pearlstein 1305 farest you um uh Jackson Lakewood Lakewood New Jersey Lakewood okay any any relation to the applicant or I work I work in the school I I I I'm I'm a teacher in the school but you're you're here on your own cognizant as a citizen not a representative or and you're not represented by misog genics yes okay Lou yes I I I just want to let Miss Jennings I'm Sorry Miss yes I I I do see a a very strong concern by The Neighbors about the quality of their life and what the school potentially could change for them I I want to give them my word we I will be available I'm there in the school all the time if there's anything they feel we should change anything that will benefit their their quality of life for any way we are affecting their quality of life we will be available and I'm always available to number one their safety number two most importantly is the quality of what they need for the day-to-day living we will be available to make any changes or anything that's needed thank you very much thank you same process as before please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right uh Tara Hoffman C FF Maan one banion court and I do appreciate the gentleman's statement I just want to say that I don't care what the traffic study says as a resident who has to go out Winterberry Boulevard as has been discussed any increase in traffic especially directly across the way is going to be a nightmare and I know that there's nothing to do about it but I just feel like that has to be said it's not the school's fault it's not anybody's fault but logistically the way the intersection goes I mean that's a disaster waiting to happen that's all I thank you all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth and nothing but the truth yes sir all right please state your name and spell your last Justin mahara Mah a 629 cville Road Jackson New Jersey neighboring the field I want to know if there's any proposed plans for visual and noise nuisances um I'm not really sure what you're referring to maybe rephrase and and ask the Eng is there anything proposed for any walls or any type of sound barriers or anything that I won't have to come out my house and hear noise or look to the left and see people playing or basketball um buses cars I I think just their 50 foot buffer um which I I believe is covered with trees right yeah the site is heavily wooded and we cleared out where we're going to put the building and then we added a lot of extra Landscaping anywhere we thought there was a gap so you should not really be able to see into the school all right thank you seeing no one come forward I move the close the public portion second Bernstein all in favor I sum summation please yes just very quickly um as the board knows this was an application that essentially was previously approved albeit for a house of worship now it's going to be for a school uh it is a permitted use and uh the concerns regarding the off-site traffic are not concerns that this board can take into consideration when weighing this particular application it is variance free and I believe that the applicant has listened to both your concerns and the consultant's concerns and have agreed to a number of conditions uh to make sure that the site uh remains appropriate for the school use and we respectfully requested the board Grant an approval thank you entertain a I'll make a motion based on our professionals testimony and this being already approved as far as the footprint of the property but especially with the applicant not only going along with the stipulations but the positive conversation about doing it and and working for the safety features definitely stipulating that all outside agencies D so forth has to be you know in and they must comply with that or come back I make a motion to approve looking for a second roll call [Music] please Mr Brey yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes yes Mr Herman yes Mr rker yes Mr marzo yes Mr Tremor yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr K yes thank you very much have a good night thank you uh we will take a 10-minute break and that's a firm 10 minutes please no I don't think I'm supposed to vote yet yeah I I think I'm only supposed to vote as alternate when someone is not there right now I think she's she's got to do training too I think there's 18 months yeah because they well I'm saying they they both have to yeah if if they hav't sign sign no it's only it's not off all the time the date they we minutes and we didn't do my voucher okay all right let's let's do them so we don't forget we'll do them when we come back so we do the minutes and the voucher hey Michelle uh 10 not 8:30 we're going home s sorry about that yeah yeah yeah um we got to do the minutes we did the minutes said we yes I I honestly I can't remember on the top of my head okay got you that's what she just said to me so I don't I I wasn't checking things off so we [Music] doing question nothing what's going on my friend yeah so so what happens is that no what happens it's not a statue what happens is I I e e e e e e e e e e e for e e who's always the last one in the room [Music] aha two demerits for the attorney Mr alfery welcome good evening Madam chair members of board salor alfery clear giobi alferi and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant do they s gentlemen thank you madam chair uh an application for a uh 6 34,000 foot contractor's office uh 30,100 ft of warehouse and 2400 ft of office there is one variance required for deficient side yard setback uh 25 25 ft is required and 12.21 feet is provided and just in the interest of moving things along um any other comments I'll have I'll throughout during the testimony of the of the app thank you thank you madam chair we have a report dat of March 15th of this year um properties in the highway commercial Zone to permitted juice um they have attached the prop osed site to an existing site and the combination of those um under separate ownerships may cause the need for a variance along the common property line between the two as they propose parking along that area that's the only other additional variants we've noted had an opportunity to speak with the applicants engineer during the day um there should be some testimony regarding the parking that's required our ordinance requires parking based upon gross floor area of a building not specific uses um and as Doug said we'll chime in when we need to during the presentation of the application thank you thank you and we agree yes the um the engineer will discuss the grow square footage and address the parking requirement we are short a few spaces which we can address um in addition um we have reviewed carefully the board professional reports and we're comfortable that we could address address virtually every within those reports we have three Witnesses the only one who should take any length of time will be Mr Murphy our engineer I'm going to call Brian up first all right please raise your right hand all right you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please say your name name your last sure Brian Murphy M phy 1856 Route 9 Tom drier principal fwh Associates have been before this board zoning board and about 100 other boards throughout the state a few times and what just a few times and what um discipline are you being qualified as professional engineer and professional CL thank you all right as both thank you all right Mr Murphy your office prepared the plans that are have been submitted in support of the application that is correct um and do you want Anthony to put up one of the exhibit yes I guess uh exhibit one the [Music] aerial the aerial and just real quick the board agrees to accept the credentials of Mr Mur we do thank you thank you right Mr Murphy would you Orient the board as to where this property located and what what the surrounding uses are sure uh so we're block 40 4801 uh Lot 25 uh as Mr Peters indicated the lot to our East property tour East uh received a prior approval from the board uh for contractor warehousing as well where's the north arrow on there so they know where North is up okay so it's the property to the right that's correct to the right um so that's already approved fully approved starting construction um and basically we're hoping to kind of piggyback on that and uh have this one as well and just sorry to keep interrupting but for the purpose of a complete record uh since we filed the original application a revised application has been filed so that we've included this the lot that you're referring to that is correct Lot 24 as part of the application why have we done that because there is some shared infrastructure that the access uh comes through Lot 24 and there'll be some parking we're utilizing one of the access aisles also of 24 which I'll get into more with other exhibits so it'll be more clear and again we we obtained the 200 foot property owner list for both properties and noce Property Owners within 200 feet of both so that that the board should have proper jurisdiction go ahead that's correct so uh what we're looking up on the up on the screen is a Google Earth aerial shot of the property the property is indicated in red this is Lot 25 uh as you can see the the property is already developed uh it's basically a pool company currently that's been there for a number of years uh that c in was done uh a number of years ago uh by by the pool company uh basically we're going to look to expand into into the uh into this property with with a warehouse as indicated the to the north is a septic and sewer company uh to the West uh is basically a vacant piece of land uh to the east is the prior approved the site that we discussed and to the South is the firehouse and that other road that you see kind of coming up just at the edge of us is the entrance into uh um Four Seasons and that's uh County Line Road is the large road to our South uh can I get the next exhibit site plan yes yeah there's an overall and then there's a another like kind of zoomed in site plan yeah I'll take the overall actually that that that'll work better thank you there we go just zoom out a hair there we go uh so the darker building uh to the left or west is the application that that we're discussing uh the buildings and the circulation that you see to to the right or east of this is that approval for uh Lot 24 that we discussed um as you can see there's an access out on the Cy Road County Line Road as part of that application we will be utilizing that access as you can see the road network based loops around we're basically going to front onto that road network uh as part of this application uh and have uh basically dual access into that there is an a proposed exit uh that is a right turn only uh out of our side of the property uh and that goes out the County Line Road and that that will be restricted to no trucks there will only be vehicles and and uh and Van Etc uh can I come to the the next exhibit please the iiz the site plan it should just be a single sheet that's in color are are these ID are they marked by number I can't tell which is which could you identify them by you didn't prear call them something so you what we start with A1 A1 let's start so A1 was the color the Google Earth aerial sh A1 the last one we saw was A2 this is A3 we're going to correct that's not it though that's not it though okay it was a sing Anthony it was a single sheet plan colored that's colored yes yes [Music] right and just as a matter of course just for jurisdictional purposes the the adjacent property owner I believe signed the app the application um and a consent form and a consent form just to make sure that that's correct oh and we don't I don't believe we have this one at all yeah you yeah everything was submitted at least 10 days prior to tonight's hearing may have been it may have been submitted for the township but I don't think the board has any that's okay I I just was looking for something I didn't have okay I have a question on Mr Shay can I have a clarification on a consent agreement how can that be taken apart I mean if that ever fell through someplace for some reason where would we stand how would this affect the I could respond to that easily because Mr sh he heard the testimony so he wouldn't know the answer yet but there will be an easement recorded to interconnect the site so that that can never go away yeah there has to be an e right that's what I was looking for okay understood so A3 is a colorized site plan of just the the principal site that that we're talking that's correct of sheet five of of the uh set that was submitted to the board it's just a colorized version of that sheet for a little more clarity I see it sure thank you go ahead sure uh so we're proposing one building that's going to be a contractor Warehouse uh 32530 ft in total uh 3,150 ft of that will be Warehouse 2380 Square ft of that will be office uh the hours operation are Monday through Friday 7 to 7 Saturday and Sunday 7 to 2 this mimics the the approval for the site to the east uh number of employees are estimated at 32 uh access as I indicated would be from North County Line Road off of through the uh Lot 24 site uh that's basically in and out at that location and as indicated at that southwest corner of our property we have an exit drive only and there'll be no trucks uh permitted to exit out of that lane an exit meaning right out only that's correct uh parking uh as we indicated 36 stalls We Believe are required and we will provide 36 so we're not looking for any variants or waiver associated with that the site plan had doesn't show 36 today yeah we indicated 32 uh but there's one one additional for uh for each unit for uh basic work Vehicles so to speak uh that that would be associated with the project so we're we're adding basically the four onto that so it' be a total of 36 uh so just to break that down looking at the square footage of the warehouse which is 3,150 Ft uh and we're the dividing that by 1500 that gives us the 24 and then the office is 1 per 200 square ft and we have the 2, 380 Square ft uh of office and that brings us another 12 and brings us to a total of 36 do we have handicapped an EV station yes okay yes you're not double counting those no I'm not I'm not double counting that the the EV stall that's not included in the 36 or 36 actual spots thank you sure um all we're not not anticipating really much in the way of work Vehicles typically you know with contractors the work Vehicles come home with with with the employees at the end of the day uh with regard to deliveries uh generally it'll be box trucks and vans uh but we do have the capacity for a Lo for a tractor trailer um and we're providing basically one loading dock for each of these tenants uh what we're finding is a lot of the the contractors now are actually kind of doing bulk storage uh just because there's issues getting material um so this kind of alleviates that and also with the fluctuations that are occurring with with uh the price of of materials this way it protects them from essentially getting hurt where they bid on a job and then the price goes through the roof and they have to eat it uh so they're they're storing more material and buying more material in bulk um that's kind of the a new way that they're doing this uh you know since really since Co I guess um with regard to outdoor storage there'll be no outdoor storage other than obviously the work vehicles that would be parked here um no Hazard M material would be stored on site s and water provided by public sewer and water uh from the MUA uh with regard to storm water be privately owned and maintained uh we have one storm water basin along the south side of the property all the roof drains will be tied into underground system um so there'll be no Overland discharge of the of the roof water uh we meet all our reductions TSS removal and uh and re charge requirements uh with regard to signage uh there will be building signage on each building basically identifying the building so you know where you're going and how to find the the correct location uh but there there'll be no signage out on the road we'll be utilizing basically the the uh roadway signage um that that's on Lot 24 um all the internal dries will be own privately owned and maintained uh with regard to trash we have a trash area on the northwest corner of the property uh that's going to be privately and obviously a pickup will will vary depending on the usage and need uh the regarding regarding lighting uh we comply with the lighting um we'll be protected from any offsite glare and we'll drop the lighting levels down during off hours uh other than just some security lighting for overnight uh with regard to Landscaping it'll be irrigated uh Street trees are provided along the safe Frontage and the internal drives uh Evergreen buffer is provided along that West uh side of the property uh we're required to have three shrubs in between each one of the street street trees we're providing anywhere from 13 to 17 uh along the county road uh basically to kind of beef up the visual environment uh along the along the county road as part of this development uh we're not looking for any phasing and this will be built in one phase it's a single building um and Lot 24 as I indicated is really only involved in this because there is cross access that's going to be occurring as Mr Al F indicated we're going to have easements basically granting those rights and preserving those rights and we have basically parking areas that are going to back out onto uh the access aisle that's on Lot 24 as well as you can see on the east side um and then the loop that goes around the building connects into the uh drive system that that's on Lot 24 as well um uh there's a couple of variances associated with this is uh Mr Peters indicated that there may or may not be a variance for uh for parking to side Lot line we'll request it just in case um and what we're talking about is that shared property line between Lot 24 and Lot 25 uh parking uh has to be 10 ft off the property line obviously we're we're basically on the property line uh so there's technically two variances there where there's uh parking uh zero on Lot 25 and zero on 24 uh do you have a pen a pointer just to I do not no no I [Laughter] do might be easier to point that okay so so we're talking about this shared property line along the Eastern property boundary so basically off the access drive basically the parking aisles coming right off the access drive off access drive along that eastern boundary so obviously we don't have setbacks we don't we don't have uh you know Landscaping along that area um so technically there may be a variance there for parking since they're technically two separate Lots even though they're kind of Mr Murphy are the lots being merged they are not not being merged then then there's Varian that's what I'm asking for um and the other variant that that's requested is for side setback uh where 25 ft is required we have 12.21 again that's along that Eastern property line uh so that's from that property line to the building is 12.21 again it's kind of setting it up that to be kind of cohesive with the rest of the development on the site uh rather than having extremely deep uh parking areas off that drive aisle uh I see no no uh I believe the benefits will outweigh any detriment and the variants can be granted without any detriment to public good or uh or the variants or um impair the the purpose of the Zone plan or zoning ordinance um with regard to the mlu well we're providing sufficient space in appropriate locations uh for commercial and Industrial uses uh we're well below the the building coverage uh that's required and the impervious coverage as well uh we have two waivers that we're seeking uh one is for uh the use of pinoke and green vay zova uh they're not approved species but your your landscape architect basically said that they have no problem with these two species being used out on the site so we're just asking for a way where to use those and then the other waiver is a 10-ft broken strip 10-ft unbroken landscape strip along side and rear property lines it's only along that side property line as I indicated obviously we're not providing a landscape strip along that East property line where we have the parking area and drive aisles um Mr there's a category one stream yes on the property can you just show the board where that is and and how that's being addressed sure the stream is actually offsite uh it let me try over here uh it's actually offsite it runs to the north and and west of of the property that's to our West uh so there is a a 300t buffer that comes off the site we're not touching any of that uh we're leaving that that buffer Alone um and we're not looking for any DP rules or or violations of the buffer uh we have a valid lii that we provided to the board and and the board professionals as well um with regard to uh Mr C's letter of March 14 2024 I have no issues with any of his comments I think I've addressed the comments that he's looked for comment on in my testimony and obviously if he has feels I missed anything I I'll happily cover that uh with regard to REM vernick's letter of uh March 15 2024 uh there's just a couple items that that requested comment uh page six item Roman numeral 4810 uh basically going going through what improvements would be on lot 20 for uh again it's just basically expanding out that connecting that parking area that's on the east of our building to their Drive aisle uh that's and connecting obviously our our Loop that goes around the building into that drive aisle as well um page six item 4 a11 uh the access easement that's on Lot 29 that's the lot to our West uh in favor of lot 2601 uh that driveway is kind of meanders out of that easement onto our property uh so we'll be notifying that owner to get his prop his driveway back on his property essentially and within his easan uh page seven uh number D5 uh concrete wall details for the loading docks uh we would just ask that we provide those at time of construction um cme's letter dated March 18 2024 we agree with all the items with the exception of 1B which goes into the uh C1 buffering uh there's an area that is cleared within the C1 buffer uh it was done before the C1 buffers even existed so it's done legally uh we're not looking to touch it we're just going to let that go back naturally and grow back naturally we're not looking to replant uh the entire area um and uh we'll let it go back and not maintain that in any way uh the fire district letter of June 15 2023 we agree with all the comments uh there was an environmental commission letter and and the police letter but both of those had expressed no concern concerns all right and this when it goes down to the use this is strictly contractor Warehouse use cor that is correct so we're not using warehouse and contractor Warehouse interchangeably no it's strictly contractor contractor Warehouse yes with no outdoor storage which is a requirement in the ordinance it's good to see with one of those um that's all that's it um and you mentioned a few comments in Mr Peter's report does that imply that the balance of the comments you'll address to his satisfaction yes okay sorry that's all we have of Mr Murphy M Madam chair Mr brzy uh one question you have floor drains inside that warehouse no thank you Mr Tremor okay I'm very familiar with the uh the property you're talking about um couple questions the W West Side 460 there is a legal easement that that he has on that property correct that's correct but it's all in the adjacent property okay so where what he's using now has no effect on is is on our property okay so it's not part of his easement no I walk the property I talked to the sure the other guys and we we were told through the title search that there's no easen on our property that allows that that location so it must have just meandered over there over time you said something about there there was a lawsuit with swimland and there is an enforcable easement but I don't know the exact we're going to have to we're represented to the board that we have to have that REM relocated so if for some reason that easement exists we're going to have to come back here okay um the wetlands in the back yes how are you going to protect that we're maintaining the 300t buffer and we're not going to go anywhere near it can we put um can we put some sort of markers in the field so that people know where that 300t for the 300 foot buffer sure would that is that what you're concerned with so everyone knows where it is I'm just thinking about like commercial runoff out of the parking lot you know going down in it right now when it rains the muddy water is destroying what's back there sure the the the bulk of the drainage as I indicate the roof drainage is going directly underground to underground uh uh piping so it's nothing going Overland on that end uh and the rest of the area is basically going into the the front Basin that's in the front uh so we're basically treating it in in the front faing as well well hope you have better luck with that one than you have with 24 I know you guys are struggling with that one um let's see so these are two separate projects yes that just being very friendly and co-sharing the the rights of uh parking and driving and everything in there yeah basically there's going to be an easement o over 24 to give access into 25 and that won't affect anything if they do sell it down the road no no it'll be recorded in the county clerk's office and run with the land yeah it's not a handshake agreement that's a document we would have to prepare and have your professionals review in advance correct okay um yeah because I mean it's to me you're not using any setbacks which is I don't know if I was building a project down the road and I saw that you were able to use their property I'd be a little upset I'm new at this so that's kind of why I'm saying it that way and that's well and we have that owner's consent they understand what we're doing so well yeah if you're working together in co-owners it's pretty easy Mr Tremor um you're correct utilizing their property got rid of setbacks and increased the yield on the property um so there's always two ways of looking at this one is if they were two distinct separate tracks of land this would be much smaller and it probably would have a a one two-way access mhm just west of the traffic light um so from an efficiency perspective we limit the number of access points quite frankly we control them right they're they're going to have to come in through call it the first the person next door's property to get through to here so at some point in time yeah just like any other site someone's going to put something in someone else's dumpster or something like that but connecting one site to to another is almost like having in a downtown area shared parking Arrangement there's an efficiency to it in this particular case the the applicant reaps one because the building get bigger the town reaps one because we'll get a bigger rable and quite frankly we may be able to control instead of having multiple points of access we limit the number of points of access so no I mean it's very unique you got the right train of thought well yeah because East min's all over the place Eastman to the east Eastman to the West you know I mean it's it's kind of interesting they're between two parties who both are represented by Council so yes is is person on the right opening themselves up to sharing a room with the person on the left yes I was going to say hopefully they stay friendly a very long time well and and many towns encourage interconnections so because of this limitation of curb cuts and less traffic it's all controlled into one location so it's it's definitely a better design well and that's it it makes sense I had talked to Mr Shay earlier too about it just to Enlighten myself but it's just it's very unique from what I see especially like well let me ask you this your industrial complex there's no fencing going around that no that that's usually pretty interesting too because they normally have a a fenced in area for security well most industrial PL places have outdoor storage so they're trying to protect the material we have no outdoor storage okay no it's fair enough um so the uh by the easement by 460 that's only going to be an exit not an entrance I think you said that's correct so there's no trucks going to be coming in and going around the building on that side because you have two different drawings here I'm trying to figure out which one no there there's they'll be able to go around the building for sure in the front yeah in the in the front and the basically full 36 around the building right you're not going to be able to pull a truck in there no the the the loading area is only in the front is on it's to the east side right so that's the the right by 460 that's going to be strictly for passenger vehicles coming in yeah and box trucks and that that kind of thing sure all right well that's kind of a grayer that is a truck but yeah I get you yeah um the sewers you mentioned Four Seasons that's already been approved or your hoping to get it approved I'm sorry the the uh the sewer connection to tie in yes I know there's a lot of legality there with with that whole well the the SE actually goes uh out the north side of the adjacent property correct so the we're tiing right into the into the sewer that's part of 440 and that's all approved or no it's not approved yet we have to go to the MUA and get we' submitted to the MUA but we're not fully approved yet yeah I used to be the chief of the firehouse next door so I know there's a lot of issues with that so you have a lot of stuff subject to approval um so all the trucks uh I believe that's it thank you sure so just uh condition of approval it's going to be strictly limited to box trucks up no no um no no no no 18 wheelers no no Our Testimony is we we we do have room for tractor trailers and that that's what those loading dots are you're talking about internal circulation or the driveways no talk about the driveways the driveways the entrance points the entrance points or exit points and the exit points you said there be no Tru the exit the driveway that exits the the site the exit that comes out of the southwest corner of the property that I'm pointing to right now that will not have tractor trailer and there will be signage to that effect that will be signed okay yes all right but then then the anticipated uh Trucking that that you intend to use on the premises open across the board or just yes yes and it's all coming through the adjacent site all right including 18-wheelers yes every every type of vehicle can access that site from that side all right what about for parking uh yeah as we indicated we're we're we're going to comply with parking but each will operate independently we're not sharing parking okay but then you're going to have 18 wheelers at a contractor Warehouse well that's why we have the loading docks on either end of the of the building on the south side and the north side we have loading docks on both ends so each unit gets one one loading dock again we're not looking for a a an industrial Warehouse here we're talking about a a a contractor that may get one delivery of a of a tractor trailer a week there would be no overnight tractor trailer stuff yes that's fine yes no overnights thank you madam chair just just um briefly um Mr indicated on the plan that we have the South Branch of maon for njde is that like you know where' that come from where you're measuring your 300t buffer from uh we physically located the stream okay so know okay um it's from the stream yeah um and then we have the the Wetland uh delineation as well and the buffer that Associated and you have an Loi that says okay y um any floor drains proposed for the build building no and all signage will comply yes that's all thank you Mr Murphy you talked about the loading docks on both sides of the building can you show the board where the traffic light for Huntington and county line is it's roughly kind kind of across if you come if you follow our property line down right where that curb island is on the bottom of the drawing right yes okay um and what's Huntington the access to Four Seasons Four Seasons South NOS yes okay why would we have a loading zone facing County Line Road directly opposite a senior community well it's not facing it it's it's basically parallel to it and and I I'd suggest maybe you want to go out and park in that site and drive out and tell me you wouldn't see those loading docks from that traffic light and it's a depressed loading dock So you you're it you come down below grade so Brian I trust you so can you see a box truck I mean the box of the truck how tall how tall is the trailer sure probably at 12 ft so you would be able to see the Box parked sure well it's a loading area right you're proposing a loading area you the architect the applicant someone's propos proposing a loading area over there it's going to get used so would we rather have an evergreen buffer along this Edge I'm happy to have that debate with you sure why don't you have it the site laid out the way it is next door the site next door has no tractor trailers facing County Line Road yet for some efficiency I have trailers facing County Line Road that's the only comment I have I don't want necessarily need to debate it I just haven't heard anyone talk about it and you know what I don't sit on Council so when the seniors come out and say you built a tractor trailer loading dock across the street from my traffic light at least we can say we talked about it through the chair Mr rker may I suggest you do an enclosed dock get you your front wall nobody sees anything you back into an enclosed dock it's open on the east side less offensive you have some character wall for the front of the building place to stick ass sign and you've off your skated anybody looking at those tractor trailers and I think the conversation might end that's very nice Mr record [Music] okay yeah I earned my just going to check with the architect to make sure that yeah that may be the nicest question you ever asked I think so graciously asked and I and I think you know we could see it as noncontinuous use space for square footage so that you wouldn't get impacted for parking and whatnot I mean I guess wouldn't have to be roofed if if that's really concerned I can bring the it's up to you if you want to roof it I mean I can basically bring either a a solid panel or yeah basically screen it something something attractive that I mean if you chose the roof it fine but my my attitude is like with other applications being that it's a non-continuous use I don't think you should be penalized for an increase in square footage because it's non continuous and it's an answer use so I'm kind of guiding you in that direction if you it I wouldn't penalize you that's Mr Murphy just so Mr Shay is clear on how it should be worded either you or Mr rker could you describe it one last time so let's do that enclose loading dock yeah okay that will work with the board Prof it doesn't need a door on the other side unless you really really wish to have it but that wouldn't count towards parking no I I I would think not because it's non-continuous use you know it takes little give and take on both both our parts to come up with a solution and I think that's a fair solution no thank you blend with the architectural Integrity of the building absolutely in the color scheme and materials used so screen loading dock as a condition of approval yes all right thank you I earned my cookie Ernie does that technically fall under gross coverage or no sorry does that technically fall under gross coverage or do I need a parking variance well it's already in part I'm sorry if it would already be impervious because your loading dock would be assumed to be concrete would have drainage yeah so you're if it was an increase in impervious roof surface it's Net Zero you're accomplishing the same thing in my opinion as a former construction manager I don't see of any I don't see any impact because uh as far as parking you wouldn't be increasing any usable space because it's a loading dock it's non-continuous use as opposed to gross floor area where you could have you know occupation or or load sure so I mean that that's the way I see it yeah the impervious coverage I'm not worried about I'm just want to make sure that we all agree that that the it it wouldn't fall under gross square footage that I need need to put parking into I without speaking for my colleagues I think they might Overlook that I know you agree with me but I I I just want to make sure and and and I'm sure we could do that legally if we all have a consensus okay make we'll talk with the architect about this as well sure if what I recommend this so if if worried about variance um if the board take that in consideration at the time um of the uh of the decision um so we can incorporate that into whatever the board determines at that time right so just the off chance that we may need to grant that we can just roll that into the denial or approval sure um but just going back to the to the trucks real quick so the trucks are going to be um all all truck traffic on on the site is going to be restricted to the statement of operations so the the 7 to S during the weekdays and the 7 to2 there's not going to be any overnight nighttime traffic okay at night outside those hours those are the hours all right question thanks call our architect all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth truth nothing but the truth I do all right please say your name and spell for the record uh Michael millerman M I L L E M Ann all right and your credentials um principal with t Cari Millman Architects located in wall I've appeared before this board before I've been practicing since 1999 went to NGIT I've appeared in many jurisdictions um throughout the state of New Jersey the board thank thank you and you presented a colored rendering of some sort that Anthony has I believe correct yeah there's um plans elevations and the colored rendering um Anthony can you put up whichever one you get to and we'll go from there but and while he's doing that U you heard the testimony about signage the applicant is not proposing any freestanding signage and any building mounted signage will conform to the ordinance is that correct correct similar to the um prior approval for the uh property to the east uh we had a number identifying the building and so we'll follow that same U Logic for the seventh building okay there's a um A4 can you identify what this document is yeah this is an uh colored rendering of the proposed uh materials and facade um of the east facing of the East face of the building uh again what we're trying to do here is um make the building contextural in terms of the materials and finishes and colors um so the materials are that we're using here the uh concrete panels uh the aluminum windows the canopies they're consistent with the uh materials that are going to be built with the um project immediately to the east so it's all going to look like one cohesive um assembly of buildings or campus what will the elevation look like facing the Four Seasons development that we've been referring to and then also just we'll do that for answer that first sure so um one of the other illustrations or exhibits shows the um if we can go to that it's sheet sd2 well just go to the next one anthy we'll just go in order that you that you put them up this is the rendering from the prior project yeah um the next page in this document st2 there it is so if you want to zoom into the top elevation this is the South elevation that it's going to face County Line Road so this is A5 and this is what are we calling this plan uh this is the uh County Line Road facing elevation the are the exterior elevations is the name of the sheet and the specific view is the U the frontage facing County Line Road so again the uh the building steps back right at this location here so there's a jog in the plan and then the loading dock is at grade so the loading dock is going to be 6 feet long coming out away from the building and then the ramp is going to go down into I'm sorry I described that backwards the ramp is going to come from the roadway and it's going to end up 4 ft um below the surface of the loading dock at that point so what we're talking about is building a um a wall to screen this elevation so it'll be somewhere in this neighborhood again the height and extent materials will you know will perfect something but it's essentially in this area that I'm outlining in general here and that the the exterior View From The Four Seasons or from the street even will be consistent with the materials and design of the balance of the building that's correct so the exhibit that we just showed A4 will be consistent with that those the materials and colors that's right so again we can work with the the professionals to come up with a um a solution to screen the the vehicles the trucks that are going to park will establish the height of the truck once it comes into the uh the loading dock there and then come up with materials that are going to be consisted and match the architecture of the uh rest of the components of the buildings so it won't be a foreign element Aesthetics are important I agree and um the uh solar will the building be built so that it can accommodate solar panels if if if warranted by the tenants Andor the developer yes it'll be designed to accommodate solar and will it will it include solar we don't know yet it depends on the market who's the tenant yeah and the and sometimes it's favorable to get it sometimes it's very expensive it depends on the credits so it's hard to say to that as long as it's built it accommodate yeah correct um any other testimony uh that was it we went over the rendering so what we have with the architect Mr Ray we think you know him we can skip that part Mr R I'm scared of to say long time no see you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right and John you're a traffic engineer John Ray Rea uh with McDon and Ray Associates professional engineer traffic is my specialty yes all right and John you your office prepared the uh traffic impact study that was submitted in support of the application we did um can you summarize for the board uh what you did and what your conclusions were and also offer an opinion as to whether the sharing of the driveway with the adjacent property is a benefit or a detriment to the town and the community sure and uh my firm also did the traffic study for the adjacent um complex which we're connecting to which is on Lot 24 if I'm not mistaken yes so what we did in order to update uh our traffic study for the new application we conducted new traffic counts at the intersection of Huntington Drive and North County Line Road that's the access to South nolles uh those counts were conducted last year we did morning and afternoon traffic counts at that location we prepared estimates to traff traffic to be generated by the new building we included traffic from the existing site which is under construction we have that traffic study we combined the traffic volumes from the two sites we projected traffic volumes to a design year of 2033 for the site ESS to uh westbound North County Line Road we also took a look at the signalized intersection at Huntington Drive and we did level of service calculations for the 2033 design year and we are in a a pretty good good part of the township right here as far as levels of service are concerned we're going to have a B level of service for both the signalized intersection of Huntington Drive and North County Line Road as well as our exit to uh North County Line Road so we're going to have excellent levels of service for the 2033 design year uh as Mr Murphy indicated we're going to add a few parking spaces to comply with the requirement that the township has for parking and uh yes as far as the interconnection is concerned we do have two points of interconnection with Lot 24 it's going to be a very similar use and uh what it will do is it allows us to limit the amount of additional conflict points that we're going to have on North County Line Road all we're looking for is a right turn exit only at the southwest corner of our property and the rest of the traffic including all of the entering traffic will share the existing driveway with Lot 24 which has already been approved by the county it is a very efficient way to run the traffic operation and that's about it that's all we have of Mr Ray professionals anything board any questions thank you thank you that concludes our presentation Madam chair we'll now open it up to uh public to uh ask questions of the professionals see this will be for cross-examination of the professionals all right do you swear or affirm that tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last for the record Kim kinsky K a m i NSK k i 47 Mason Drive Jackson I am one of the senior citizens at the 40 Four Season South nolles and I want to express my appreciation for the consideration of the Aesthetics um I still don't fully understand um everything I don't believe I will fully understand everything this evening but it does sound like then from this this entrance here is really just an exit is that correct that's correct and not not for tractor trailers so the and the other one which is Lot 25 or four 24 that's where they'll all be entering entering yes I was not clear on I know there will be Vans and box cars couldn't really get will there also box trucks will there also be for 18 wheelers tractor trailers could enter through the adjacent property will they if if they yeah well this is so there'll be 18 wheelers if the tenants that are going to occupy Lot 25 need a tractor trailer that's how they'll come just like they can for the Lot 24 okay so we can say that there will be 18 wheelers we can probably assume that so will they be coming in from lot 204 that's where they have to enter and exit and they exit from that one as well yes they can't exit from the driveway you were just referring to that would only be for the smaller Vehicles okay and that's why they have the they've agreed to have the joint um area there where they drive okay for the convenience of that okay so when the 18 wheelers are coming down on the southbound lane of huntingt and Mr Ray is going to that's the that's the extent of my knowledge so Mr Ray is going to have to come up now so the 18-wheelers will be going down the southbound lane of North County Line Road coming off Jackson Mills Road County Line Road runs East West so you're going to have to reorient me well I'm saying we we call it North County Line Road though yes correct so I I was all right so then that would be the I guess westbound Lane I'm I'm sorry I'm not following you try again we're not following each other well the one goes this way toward Jackson Mills let me try it and this one goes toward Lakewood toward Harmony Road right all right so are we talking south or east well North County Line Road runs East West so any tractor trailer that enters the site that's coming let's say from Jackson Mills coming from the West would have to go past the signal at Huntington Drive down to Harmony Road where there's a Jug Handle and do a U-turn to come back to the West on county line so that and I know this is from the from Lot 24 but so it's okay then we the traffic study it approved going around that big circle at that intersection and making a left by the Walgreens yes to go into there correct and that's going to be okay that's been designed for truck traffic and the county probably 20 years ago I don't know if you were living here now they realigned Harmony Road and cooksbridge and they signalized it okay and they put the jug Handles in probably 20 years ago okay so that's all right so all right thank you so so we have the entrance for the 18 wheelers in Lot 24 corre and the exit is there yes as well yes okay and Anthony can you pull up the joint uh if if it's possible I know I did see that I think at the beginning of the presentation and this one what do we use this one for that's just exiting trap there you go this is the joint these are the two sites combined and the signal is right where Huntington Drive is right here where the red pointer is indicating the driveway that's going to process all entering traffic and all exiting trucks is at this location which is a couple hundred feet to the east of the signal at Huntington okay and that one drive what is that used for for which this one right here to the left what happens there just exiting movements for passenger vehicles employees and small box trucks the tractor trailers that any tractor trailers and let me go back we only have two loading docks for this contractor's building right here there's one on the south end and one on the North End and the only reason why they're there is just in case any of the tenants need to get a delivery maybe once a week of some material that they're going to use inside the building uh it's not intended to be a warehouse or a distribution facility so those loading docks are only there in the event the tenant needs to get a delivery there's a possibility the deliveries will be made in box trucks we won't even need uh you know WB 50s is what we you know tractor trailer we may not even need it it depends on the tenant but we've designed it to accommodate the truck okay and um I don't fully understand the wall uh that might be built there but I just um I am hoping that would be I mean I it looks you know from the renderings the the buildings themselves look very nice I'm I wish that they were pointing more in the direction right on Counting line I think that would be much more um palatable for everyone you know even just anyone driving on that road rather than to see a loading dock you know um well you won't anymore you won't see a loading we're going to screen it okay will we hear a loading dock what's the noise level the W the wall will screen the noise as well too it'll serve two purposes it'll be a visual screen and it will screen the noise as well too okay and how high are those buildings what's how high are they it's 31 ft to the 31 ft the and I don't know if you know this because I know it's it's a different lot and a different company and all that but are the buildings uh on Lot 24 also the same um yes they're all the same they're meant to be consist about 31 okay okay that's it all right thank you very much and again I appreciate the consideration um I know we don't have a big turnout here tonight but thank you for that tell your neighbors all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth of the record yes sir all right Eric Jones 722 heiston Road J NES just case there two questions um when you're coming out of this place why didn't they give any consideration as to making a left and using the traffic like it's already there are you relying on the turn Jug Handle down the road you didn't want to absorb the cost of yeah yes we're we're relying on The Jug handles on either side of us okay um and we felt I I I if I'm not mistaken when the original um when Lot 24 was developed we looked at that and I think at that point in time the thought process was the South nuls residents wouldn't want our traffic entering and exiting at at quote unquote their traffic signal okay okay um the other question probably not for you um is this going to be a clearcut job the land are they clear cutting I I don't Brian can you well the only reason I ask if they're clear cutting because you're you're concerned about these tractor trailers back in NC and walls or whatever right now with the house that sits there I'm I'm guessing you're knocking that down but you can't see that house with the trees there so if they just left the trees there you wouldn't see the tractor trailers it will be cleared in all in one shot at one time just like the neighboring property uh that's what upsets people in Jackson clear cutting yes and then uh you know we we have a replanting plan that we have to provide when you go from like trees like this to this it's not not aesthetically pleasing that's all thank you anyone else coming forward motion to close public session second Sullivan you want to open now we have uh opening for public session for any any comments that uh the residents would like to make seeing no one come forward make a motion to close give it a second give him a second nice though all right go ahead okay seeing no one come forward Bernstein make a motion to close public session second Sullivan everyone I thank Mr Alf just real quick is there going to be a parking agreement between the parties I'm sorry is there going to be a parking agreement between parties no just just for Ingress egress only all right and they're not you're not utilizing the the parking lot on the other correct completely independent just make it sure yeah right and and just in summary uh we believe we've addressed all the technical comments we had excellent um input from the board professionals and board members and we request that the board Grant the approvals Madam chair before we move forward I think we still have to address the if there's going to be a variance required for screening in the uh trailer track the trailer back in spot if there's no roof there it's just a screening I don't I don't understand why I mean I to me the I I think the best way to approach it to the extent of Varian is required to to to provide for that area um it should be granted and with the stipulation that it can't be used for warehouse space or office space it's only for no problem with that thank you just for screening purposes correct the loading do and and I think it was a good point that it's not just visual but auditory correct so I think to put in that it's Visual and auditory screening that's it yep would you like to summarize Mr alfair everything or have they just said or just just a couple of words here or there I did I did I just we've addressed all your comments we addressed the input that the board professionals and the board members have and we'd request that the board Grant the approval with all the conditions that we've stipulated thank you anything from the professionals would like to summarize for us or advice thank you I'd like to make a motion to approve with the stipulation that the applicant May uh install a screen or inclose the loading dock at the front at his discretion and it will not be held against him as additional space which would uh potentially impacted for parking drainage so on so forth and I appreciate the applicants cooperation in that regard to make it happen I like to second the motion based on all the stipulations that the applicant has submitted to and our professionals input so I make a second roll call please Mr brei yes Mr Bernstein yes Mr heler yes Mr Herman he left okay uh Mr rker yes Mr marzo Mr treemmer yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes congratulations thank you thanks very much have a good night excellent we could start we can start all right Miss Al you have 10 minutes I know I know Bill can do this but to part ladies and gentlemen we'd like to continue our testimony so please do it quietly thank you I'm run law good evening Madam chair members of board salvator Al fury on for the applicant um you want them the professionals to do let's let's listen to the professionals yes while we're awaiting the attorney Mr Clay thank you madam chair um application for Premier and final major site plan for 123,000 123,000 U mixed use building 110 um five of warehouse and uh 12,000 called 13,000 squ ft² of um office space the application is compliant with um the uh uh zoning requirements of the um of the ordinance there's also a rear storage area that's proposed as well as an existing um uh uh storage area off of Houston Avenue um just some um comments or testimony from the applicant regarding the improvements to Houston Avenue um believe there's improvements um proposed from Faraday um up to the site so just some testimony from the applicant regarding the extent of um those improvements and we'll chime in as we need to Mr Peters thank you madam chair our office has a report dated December 1st of 2023 um the use is permitted in the zone um this property I believe is a municipal boundary with um ad joining Lakewood Township I believe there's some offer requirements that need some testimony and some discussion about the extent of um improvements along the frontages for the property thank you just in time yes thank you um just for the record uh yes we are within 200 feet of Lakewood so we did obtain a 200 foot property on the list and notified the residents that are adjacent in Lakewood we Steve Ryman is also present this even evening he's the uh from the Lakewood industrial commission the director the director of the Lakewood industrial commission since it's so late in the evening we're never going to get through our testimony there are two fundamental issues that we want to get the board's input on one relates to the reason Mr ryman's here tonight which I guess we could start with after we qualify swear in and qualify Mr all right because we have never seen you before please raise your right hand do you swear or affm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right and your name and last for the record William Stevens stns I am a professional engineer and a professional planner licensed to practice here in the state of New Jersey and I've been appearing in that capacity in front of this board for well too many years now are you appearing as both or just one yes sir I am the engineer and the planner for this application and uh as Mr alfier said in his opening remarks first let's ask them to accept your credential accept your credentials and do we want an exhibit up so you can show the board what we're talking about I apologize Madam chair trying to go fast so yes Anthony if you could call up our exhibits please exhibit A1 the the other end Anthony that's eight we're looking for one it's an aerial photograph that's the one so just to bring the board up to speed for what we're talking about the subject property is lot 1 through six in Block 22009 shown in yellow in the center of the exhibit the property is located to the North and the East here the a residential culdesac located in Lakewood Township the property's located to our North is the the Whitesville Industrial Park proper and then Faraday Avenue running perpendicular across the bottom of the map and then Houston Avenue running in e direction from Faraday Faraday properties originally purchased Lots two in this block which is this little yard that you see here and also purchased a lot across the street it is the home of the a toz site contractors who I'm sure the board is familiar with and it's seen around this board actually approved the original construction of Houston Avenue the corporate offices and headquarters of a construction which is here and their material storage yard which is located across the street Mr pearlstein then was able to acquire lot three in this block which is located here and then through a land sale with the township of Jackson was able to acquire the rest of the lots that he was missing in 1 through six so he now owns the entire block of 22009 it's Mr pearlstein's wish and desire to develop this property as a commercial industrial property with commercial ratables this is the industrial Zone here in Jackson this is where we wanted to see our commercial development and that is what's being proposed so as Mr Alfieri said in his opening remarks there really are there there's two issues that we want to talk about the the first one talks about the buffer to this property these Lots were originally created by the Jackson industrial commission before my time actually it's a long long time ago as part of that approval they had proposed a 100t buffer from north to south along this property line it was it was called out as a a 100 foot wide screening buffer and it is to Jackson Township during the course of the development of this property on lot three there actually was litigation to remove that so that buff does not exist on this part of the property it only exists about halfway back from here to here there also is a 50-foot buffer located on the other side of the property line in Lakewood Township so what one of the things we were asking this board for was to reduce the 100 foot buffer on our side on the Jackson side so that between the 50 Foot buffer on Lakewood and the 50ft buffer on our side we would meet the requirements of the 100t buffer that is one of the things that we want to talk about this evening and perhaps the simpler thing to talk about U the men that you see in the audience here our Lakewood residents they live in this neighborhood and the reason why they're here is they they support fully the removal of this buffer that is not their concern they have another concern which is the harder thing to talk about so let's talk about that probably the board hasn't noticed but Lakewood has a traffic problem on cross street I'm sure nobody knows that I knew it was going to be a news flash but I thought I'd bring it up anyway so so yes Lakewood has a problem with traffic on cross street and unfortunately that problem is now being inherited by Jackson and it's it's encroaching onto Faraday and that Faraday is becoming impossible during school hours it really is the schools that are being constructed in this neighborhood that is causing this traffic problem and Lakewood is really seeking to find an answer here has been working with Jackson Township to find an answer and and what the answer they have come up with unbeknownst to me but this is their answer so just just off of the page and it's hard to see here it's clear on my paper copy this is cross street the cross street and far day intersection is here but cross street continues in that same line in a northeasterly direction what Lakewood would like to do and what these Lakewood residents want your help with is they would like to improve the old Brush Street rideway along Mr pearlstein's property and what is owned by the Whitesville Industrial Park proper to Houston Avenue to allow traffic to come through Lakewood onto what was previously known as Brush Avenue and then onto Houston Avenue and talking this through a little bit more tonight because it honestly isn't something we had really thought a lot about what really would make more sense than all of that would be to continue that Brush Avenue Improvement all the way to Whitesville Road that would be the right answer in my opinion I'm not the traffic engineer we do have one of those but I think we're all smart enough to know that if we were to connect the two County Roads that would make a a much better traffic Improvement for this neighborhood than having the the traffic come from Lakewood and then make a a left turn back onto the Faraday Corridor which we already know is taxed so that is something we're talking about so what what they want to hear from us is that we are willing to give them some right of way back on our property and we have agreed with the township of lakew just on officially here in talks that we would be willing to give them 30 ft so that they will have access from Lakewood Township sh to Houston Avenue from there what happens that'll be up to the township of Jackson and the township of Lakewood this Cooperative effort to fix this traffic problem but we're doing our part we're willing to give them that 30 ft right away that they're asking the engineers in the room Doug is saying well how are you going to do that there's a 20 or 25 foot elevation difference between these properties we have big retaining walls proposed along there some of which approaching 10 or 12 feet in height would require grading into the Whitesville industrial park to make this road happen but Mr Ryman said he is prepared to to work on that and to make that happen their ask of us is to give them this right away so that that road can continue into Jackson so um uh and we'll we'll handle those are really only two things we'd like to talk about tonight since we're running out of time but what we would do is um when we come back at whenever the next meeting is we'll show you what that would look like on our site is that correct Mr Stevens yes and hopefully by then we will also have had input from Lakewood Township and Jackson Township to see how this could be built um in a way that is functional should we have some brief testimony from the people in Lakewood since they took their time to come here tonight we have yeah that would be perfect because we're otherwise those are the two points we wanted to cover that's that would be the bet the rest of it is rather simple we can get and and just just for jurisdictional purposes you you properly noticed um yes the township of Lakewood and the residence with yes so I don't know Mr Ryman you want to come up first since now these just now real quick I'm wondering if he shouldn't just go to the podium whatever you like since you're not part of that team and speak as a uh not affiliated theant correct you're part of the team but we know Mr Ryman for decades okay all right all right uh please raise your right hand which you're doing um do you SW do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last Ste Ryman r e i n m an I'm the director of economic development for Lakewood Township all right you're not affiliated with the applicant and and you're not represented by Mr alfier no okay not not tonight not at this not tonight not tonight not at this moment so I'm here at the uh request of the mayor and Committee of uh of Lakewood as the uh Mr Alfieri and Mr Stevens mentioned lakewood's been grappling with overall traffic issues but certainly in this area what's developed over the last few years is a rush to fill the area and a lot of that is schools which I might mention many of these schools are servicing probably 50% or better of their population is coming from Jackson and that's why we've been cooperating with mayor Rena and trying to find solutions that will allow not just this Brush Avenue solution but a number of points of Ingress and ESS from the overall area so that we can have proper traffic flow that means primary secondary tertiary roads so that the entire Zone can work there's quite a lot of effort that's going on on the Lakewood side there's a joint venture that's been put together with a number of the large Property Owners schools and and others in the area to bring into the proper infrastructure roads and what have you and we've identified this point of ESS as maybe not the best maybe the best is brush all the way out to Whitesville but certainly in the short term it's and it's a point of egress that would be very valuable to us so uh in discussions with Mr Stevens and Mr Alfieri and uh Mr pearlstein it's our request that they dedicate right of way and we certainly will be having to work with the principles of the uh Whitesville industrial park to see what kind of accommodations can be made to make it the most efficient thank you uh we're going to have to look at when um Miss Morrison when we be able to reschedule I I have a suggestion on May on May 6 the 340 West Commodore which is mine is not ready they're not responsive they haven't made any decision so they're not going to be there that night the other one's a rather small application that's also M so if if we could stick it on May 6 that gives us enough time and and you do have room if how does that look for you that sounds good how about noticing is it necessary to reot think so we can we can we'll work on that I don't know if we need to but there are other um members of the public that may want to say something there's no need to re notice um given they've done an extensive notice um we could just put it we could put the change we can vote on the change and then put it on record so that the world is on notice of the change all right so we can just vote on the change and then we'll discuss there are few other members that wanted to speak Madam chair okay yeah all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth yes I affirm all right please state your name spell your last for the record mosha Steinberg s t i n b RG all right and your address my address is 20 SD Circle Lakewood New Jersey Lakewood okay my my property is the triangle shaped property you have to speak Clos my property is a triangle shaped property that backs up right to the to the to their triangle uh off of EST Circle um first of all if you want us to come back May 6 I'm happy to come back May 6 but that's number one number two is uh I do appreciate what everybody needs done which is infrastructure this project itself needs major infrastructure in terms of roads it's a large project of 19 units it's going to bring at least 150 cars maybe 100 trucks a day down Faraday there's only one way in and out to this project and that's that little spot on H on Houston Street on Faraday that's tremendous amount of noise it's tremendous amount of traffic it's not just the schools and everything else around here that's happening that itself will is concerning that will add a tremendous amount so we're asking for some sort of gives I just heard about this a week and a half ago I just familiarized myself with it a little bit in the last 24 hours so I would appreciate more time for me to work with everybody here involved to try to find something for me personally it's going to be a tremendous amount of noise to my property it also cuts off my property that nothing could ever happened back there that's valuable because I understand it's 47t tall uh that means everybody around us is seeing the tallest building for miles around that's going to be block everybody's view it's going to deter any more residential on my block so that that's why it's concerning to me so we'll be getting more testimony you'll have an opportunity to to give more testimony and to hear more testimony okay at the meeting on May 8th sixth May the 6th okay thank you thank anyone else all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I affirm all right uh please state your name spell your last for the Nathan burck last name spelled b i r n h a c k I'm neighbors with Mrs St just spoke also what's your address 18 SD Circle EST Circle in Lakewood or Jackson Lakewood Lakewood so I got the notice and that's why we're here we thank you for sending us the notice you go um same concerns that I think everyone has here in our neighborhood if you leave our homes after 8:00 a.m. unfortunately you're stuck right into cross street and there's no other way out we're looking to see how we can improve you know obviously this is indust back to back US is an industrial area he has a right to build there we are not objecting that but we're looking to ease the traffic and see if once developments like this go up if they can somehow improve the roadways the infrastructure and the other concern we do have and hopefully this could be brought up before next meeting is landscape we haven't seen a landscape plan this is a tremendous building it obviously has a right to build it but it's almost 50t tall when you're looking at of a beautiful beautiful quiet residential neighbor with two Acre Properties that's probably the only development like this that's exist in Lakewood we're going to be P you know have have have a monstrous building there which he's entitled to but we're looking for some type of landscape plan that will have some good buffer there that sort of will improve the um view from our development thank you thank you public session closed make a motion to close public session second Bernstein every one I agree do we have to vote all right Mr alfair so good timing and uh we will uh certainly hear more from your professionals and from the public uh when we meet again in May mam chair if if I could I would suggest that uh I don't know who is representing Whitesville industrial park but if you could have their agent or you know I know you you've worked with them before if if they give you consent to represent them and Mr Mr Stevens is meeting with that person tomorrow just just so it's nice and clean we're going to and we're going to talk to the neighbors too we're going to attempt to work everything out before we come back I uh I drove out there on uh a Saturday it was a safe day uh and uh uh I I was unfamiliar with farad it's a very interesting environment out there so uh I'm looking forward to hearing more about this project thank you so we request Mr Shay that you announce the next dates without further notice please right I believe that would be uh May 6th May six right uh and if the if the board wants to vote on that change just take care of it we uh take a motion on voting for that change please I'll make a motion to approve May 6 I'll second it all in favor I I thank you oh sorry the applicant agrees to wave time a decision okay thank you so we're going to so the announcement is that the hearing is carried to 6:30 on May 6 and there'll be no further notice no further notice no further notice thank you good night everyone good night and thank you gentlemen for coming and for staying thank you excuse me he wants to know if he's first on the agenda no no gu pushing your luck I don't know man luck I don't know it's up the sell if if if you don't ask you don't get right motion to adjourn second rer all in favor I have a good night