e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Township zoning board to uh to order uh start with the Pledge of Allegiance United States of America the so the reason that I'm opening the meeting this evening is because it's reorg uh but pursuing to njsa 10 colon 4 the open public meetings act notice of this duly and regularly scheduled meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment has been published and posted in all appropriate locations um so the first thing that we're going to do tonight is uh executive session um so I'm going to I'm going to articulate the resolution for the executive session I'll still need somebody to make the motion um to approve that resolution and a second all right so whereas the Zoning Board of the township of Jackson is subject to certain requirements of the open public meetings Act njsa 10 4 whereas the open public meetings Act njsa 10 4-12 uh provides that an executive session not open to the public may be held for certain specified purposes when authorized by resolution whereas it is necessary for the zoning Board of the township of Jackson to discuss in a session not open to the public matters relating to the item or items authorized by njsa 10 412b this evening those matters being Personnel um specifically uh for reorganization purposes uh as tonight is our reorganization for uh the board members uh now therefore be it resolved by the Zoning Board of the township of Jackson to enter executive session for the discussion of personnel and more specifically the um the uh board's organization it's anticipated that deliberations conducted in close session may be disclosed to the public upon the determination that public interests will no longer be served by such confidentiality so as requested can I have somebody to make a motion to approve this resolution chair I'll make that motion to go into close session second roll call please Mr Hudak Mr Hudak yes Dr Holstein yes Mr Heyman yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Rosal yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes I don't anticipate this this is going to take very long I would say maybe 10 to 15 minutes most and I say that every time but I actually mean it this time so we'll see and I say that every time too yeah e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e motion from someone to come out of executive session motion second call pleas Mr Heyman yes Mr Holstein yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Rosal yes Miss Bradley yes very good um okay so uh right now I know that the board had discussed uh potential um officers appointments um is there anyone who would like to make a nomination for the position of chair I would like to make a motion to appoint Miss Bradley as chair second all right um there's a motion a second to appoint Miss Bradley as chair um if uh we can get a roll call on that please l Mr Heyman yes Dr Holstein yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Rosal Miss Bradley congratulations Miss Bradley and uh on your reappointment to the position of chair all right um is there a nomination for vice chair second we have a motion to Second uh if we can have a roll call please Mr Hyman yes Dr Holstein yes Mr Hudak yes Mr um Stafford Smith yes Miss Parnes Miss Rosal Miss Bradley very good congratulations Mr Stafford Smith our new Vice chair very nice okay um does uh does the board up you're gonna have to G have to switch around now um yeah he's he's leaving uh is there a is there a nomination for secretary yes I'd like to nominate your appoint as for secretary very good uh Liz you know the drill by now can we get a roll call on that please Mr Hyman yes Dr Holstein yes Mr Hudak Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Parnes Miss Rosal Miss Bradley yes congratulations Miss Parnes new secretary okay and then finally we have um do we have a nomination for acting secretary yes I'd like to nominate Mr Hudak for acting secretary you have motion second and I have a roll call please Mr Hyman yes M Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Parnes Miss Rosal yes Miss Bradley yes congratulations Mr hak okay uh we have our officers appointed for the 2024 2025 uh zoning year here okay um with that I will turn this meeting back over to the chair I'm getting there I'm getting there all right GNA turn it back over to the chair and I'll let the chair um um with my assistance go through the rest of the uh uh reorganization agenda all right um so we need to appoint a recording secretary um Miss uh ramrup uh was appointed in January uh to finish the term of our prior recording secretary Fran Della um as far as I know there are no other applications uh and Miss ramrup is seeking reappointment uh as the recoring secretary for the zoning board for the full 2024 25 year um so the board want take over but if the board wants to make a motion on that the Board needs to make a motion on whether or not to approve uh the appointment of Miss Ram rub as our recording secretary for motion to approve second Mr Heyman yes Dr Holstein yes Mr Hudak yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss parz Miss Rosal Miss Bradley yes congratulations M Ram welcome back okay um and two other items uh the first one being uh the newspapers uh so for the prior calendar year our two newspapers were the Asbury Park Press uh and the Star Ledger um those were my recommendations for the two official newspapers I'm not making any changes to those particular recommendations at this time um so I would recommend to the board that we uh re-approve um both the asbery Park Press as our primary paper and the Star Ledger as our second paper um so I would need a motion to that effect make a motion that we continue this practice using the Sor Journey Asbury Park Press second roll call please Mr Hyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Parnes Miss Rosal m badley yes and the first thing that will be published in both of those papers will be our 2024 2025 meeting schedule um I will run through that uh now uh on the record um and the board can vote uh make a motion to approve or deny um but let me get the dates on the record all right uh so for the 20242 calendar year for zoning which begins July 1st um our first meeting was obviously tonight July 177 2024 which was noticed last year um but uh that's for reor and regular meeting um and then we have two meetings in August August 7th and 21st uh September will be September 4th and 18th obviously these are all calendar year 2024 um October will be October 2nd and 16th uh November will be 6th November 6th and November 20th um and December will be December 4th and December 18th um in 2025 we will have our reorganization meeting on January 15th um only one meeting in January uh February 5th and 19th of 2025 March 5th and 19th of 2025 April 2nd and 16th of 20 2025 May 7th and 21st of 2025 June 4th and 18th of 2025 and then finally our reorganization next uh year in 2025 on July 16th of 2025 uh only one meeting in July uh just as a matter of of note our regular meetings are actually the uh the um first Wednesday of the month um is that yeah first Wednesday of the month um and the second meeting per month is actually technically a reserve meeting um the board activated the reserve meeting uh each and every month um since before my tenure began um and we continue with that schedule at this particular moment due to the sheer number of applications that we have but technically the second uh the the meeting on the third Wednesday of the month is always a reserved meeting okay um so that's the meeting schedule as proposed for um the 2024 2025 calendar year a motion make a motion what to approve that schedule very good second Mr Heyman yes Dr Holstein yes Mr Hudak yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss parz Miss Rosal Miss Bradley yes and then as my last order tonight because I forgot to do it at the beginning was can we get a roll call as to attendance Please Mr Heyman here Dr Holstein here Mr Hudak Miss Parnes Miss Rosal Mr St Smith here miss Bradley here with that I'm going to turn the meeting back over to our uh chairwoman uh Miss Lyn Bradley um to do what she does best and run this meeting take it away from me all right next on the agenda do we have any resolutions this evening you're not going to let me stop talking are you yes we have two resolutions this evening the first resolution is resolution number 2024 30 this is the resolution of the zoning board uh which uh it's accepting a withdrawal of the application for preliminary and final site plan approval with use variants for cahela to Brookwood 4 uh property located at 1231 Aldridge road block 6002 Lots two and three uh everyone is eligible to vote as it's withdrawal second all call please Mr Hyman yes Dr Holstein yes Mr Hudak miss parnaz Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes um and the second resolution that we have is um I'll have to amend this because I didn't change the resolution number but it will be resolution number 2024 D31 and this is the resolution of the zoning Board of the township of Jackson um granting uh memorializing granting of the administrative approval amending resolution number 22316 um for Earl Investments LLC um on property located Earl Way block 23001 lots 20.05 20.06 and 20.07% Hudak Miss Parnes Mr Stafford Smith um Mr Heyman and Miss Bradley roll call please oh we need a motion first yep motion motion to approve second now you can have roll call Mr Heyman yes Mr Hudak Miss Parnes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes uh do we have any minutes this evening or you motion res that concludes the resolutions for this evening Madam chair um I don't know if we have minutes we have any minutes we do not have any minutes okay and I do not have a voucher in front of me but I'm sure that you would like to get paid for this evening sorry so now I have a motion um voucher in front of me for $175 from the township of Jackson for our recording secretary for this evening I I need a motion and a second so we can pay the voucher motion second roll call please Mr Hyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes M Rosal Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes and now we can swear in the professional announcements oh I'm sorry do we have announcements this evening Mr mer yes we do we have one announcement uh it appears to me based upon the agenda that uh variance 3511 um Maran walowski 460 Cedar Swamp Road Block 4201 La 21 uh is being withdrawn as it was determined that the variance is not needed so that application will be withdrawn and a resolution of uh memorializing that withdrawal will be drafted for approval other than that there's no further announcements this evening now we can swear in our professional sir okay um Mr Safford Smith has to leave um the record should reflect at 7:55 um Mr sepher Smith exited the meeting thank you thank you sir with that there's no further announcements now we'll swear on our professionals thank you for raising your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments are you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes yes if you would each please state your name and positions with the board Evan Hill Board engineer Ernie Peters board planner Jeffrey Pororo zoning officer thank you gentlemen okay no administrative approvals for this evening Mr Murphy none Madam chair all right we're going to move forward to our first application excuse me uh I just like to make a quick statement if possible okay it's your sh I'm just absolutely I would just like to take a couple of minutes to thank call book for as many years of service as a member to this board his knowledge of our master plan and land use laws help guide board members to make decisions of many applications that have appeared before us his ability to provide the facts needed to be included in the board's final resolutions were unmatched again thank you for your service and the best of health to you and your wife thank you thank you Dr hofstein I appreciate that um and I'm sure Mr Brook will as well um I did want to make one more announcement I I lied or maybe a couple more first and foremost I want to congratulate Dr hofstein and Mr Heyman who have been um elevated as they say and have been appointed as regular members of the Zoning Board of adjustment um so congratulations to you gentlemen uh they were previously alternates and now our our regular members so congratulations I'd also like to welcome our newest member uh Christel Rosal uh thank you very much for uh volunteering to serve um you're certainly going to learn a lot and uh uh obviously you have a wealth of knowledge here uh particularly sitting at that table right there um so you know uh welcome aboard and uh we're excited to have you here so congratulations on your appointment and with that Madam chair I promise I have no more no more announcements I'd like to stop talking please okay we're going to move forward to application number one Anthony and Patricia Travis Sano variant 3513 932 Anderson Road you can come forward please good evening sir you would please raise your right hand thank you very much do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes if you would please um do the best you can to speak in the microphone the Acoustics in here are terrible um if you could please state your name spell your last um provide your address and your affiliation to this particular application Anthony traviso 932 Anderson Road Jackson New Jersey TR v o and you're the property owner yes I am very good thank you sir Mr Travis sandle why don't you tell the board what you're trying to do with uh what you would like to do with this application uh put up a fence up in the front of the property um some of the road noise is just getting crazy out there on Anderson Road with the quads and the dirt bikes and also uh truck traffic is increased incredibly on that road even though it's 4 ton there's still dump trucks and 18 wheelers running down and it's right across the street from uh Venture Crossing so we're trying to block and a lot of noise comes out of that ballpark and Echoes right off the buildings it sounds like they're playing music in your front yard and um for the record what type of fence how high what type of material 6 foot wood solid Mr Hill so the applicants here tonight because um in the front yard area which is that defined as that area between the front of the house and and and the road roadway Frontage U you're not allowed to have a fence more than 4 foot high in the front yard all right in this case the applicant's proposing six foot high and solid uh therefore he's requiring a variance and uh the applicant has provided a sketch and also a copy of a prior survey indicating that the fence will be located along Anderson Road um a minimum of 10 ft from the sidewalk 17 ft from the curb U I really don't know where exactly the property line is in relationship to the um in relationship to the sidewalk but um if there's no dimension on the survey I would estimate it's at least 10 feet though so I I think property line is uh close to being the Inside Edge of the sidewalk uh but maybe maybe not right on it regardless I don't believe the fence is encroaching within the property it's going to be up to the applicant to make sure that the fence does not encroach beyond the property line right along the sidewalk there's a row of evergreen trees approximately six foot tall um probably about F six foot on Center and those evergreen trees are about 3 to 4 ft off of the sidewalk and then he's proposing to put his fence um on these house side of those evergreen trees so uh the fence will not create any kind of line of sight issues as they're backing out of or backing out of their driveway and it will not create any line of sight issues for any adjacent homes either any questions for the applicant yes is is the fence on the property line on both sides yes and uh just to either Mr Hill or Mr is trying um are there any utilities involved in in any of the areas he's putting def fence are there any uh existing utilities yes it's Underground Service Gas and Electric I don't see like I I don't suspect it would have an impact on any septic systems or well U any underground electrical utilities or any underground utilities they'd obviously have to call markout in to make sure that the contractors were required to call Mark out to make sure that they avoid um avoid those utilities okay thank you Mr Peters uh if the board recalls the burden of proofs on the applicant is here for a c or bulk variance for setback so there are normally some standards or some proofs that are required um the board because these are residential type applications often permits the residents to come in speak to us and give us their their reasoning behind it please understand this is not sworn testimony by a professional um if you recall there are C1 and C2 variant es where there are certain requirements or showings or proofs that need to be made to in order for the board to Grant the variant relief in this particular case the applicants relied upon the issue of traffic noise and the increase in development in and about his area I didn't misspeak sir did I um so while this gentleman maybe a lay person those are some of the general types of proofs we hear um when we're hearing either a hardship or a special reasons variance now to the extent that the board wants to go through those standards in detail I I suspect that this gentleman's probably not qualified to go through them um we certainly could but please understand that part of the either the hardship or the special reasons variance is them to show us how this would make their property better without negatively impacting the rest of the town so for instance if this gentleman believes that by putting a six- foot fence that close to the road is going to take care of the problems that he's brought forward that's good for him um if the board has a concern that everyone on that Street's going to come in and ask to put a six foot high fence 17 feet off the road and we don't like the way that's going to look well that that's a a different issue understanding that each application that comes to this board stands on its own you don't add them all up you don't take his special his special reasons or conditions and Associate them with someone else's property so if the board satisfied with the testimony that the applicant's given to you I think you're free to deliberate counselor tell me if I'm overstepping or if the board thinks that they need some more information in terms of the proofs then unforunately you may need to ask for professional testimony but again there a residential application having to do with a fence and the gentleman has put forth um several reasons for the request all I'm hard pressed I I concur with Ernie uh here um and and you know I I I I went to length to outline uh the C1 and C2 V variance criteria for the board um so we we have this issue here where uh just to be clear this is that fence is proposed in the front yard correct yes okay I have a couple questions what's can you tell me a little bit about the irregular shape why is it there's that's a tree trees that are up there okay all right um in front of the fence between the proposed fence and the street there's bushes that I planted also understood so it's going to be on my you know inside of the trees now six foot solid fences are not permitted in front yards anywhere in Jackson um but four foot fences are why do you need a six- foot fence and not a 4ot fence well for the noise number one and also for the site of the the uh warehouses that they put up and all that stuff there I'm going to jump in excuse me the um the highest the tallest solid fence you can have in the front yard is 30 in I I meant to say four foot open okay sorry thank you I I was going to catch that too um like Jeff said uh 4 foot open fence would be the option or uh or the solid up to that particular limit um admittedly you didn't create you didn't create the the hardship that you're talking about correct no sir yeah I I think and and I I don't want to testify for the applicant but somewhere in here if he and I have a conversation or or I ask him a few questions sir you've owned the property for a number of years since 1988 so you were you were living in the house before you developed the property across the street yes sir and while you might not know it it the use that's across the street may not have originally been permitted when you purchased your property correct that's correct so you ended up getting something across the street that to your mind was more intense yes than you thought when you originally bought the property 20 odd years ago that's correct fair enough I think that that's that's great the only other question I have is is there any way that you can push the fence back toward your home it seems a little close to the street in my well the one side is uh 39 ft off the sidewalk and the other side is 17 I could push the 17 to 20 would be not a real big deal so um Ryan I'm sorry keep in mind and you're not you're not seeing it on this if you look on if if you if you're familiar with the property or even look on the Google Map street view you'll see 6 foot high Evergreens planted right along the sidewalk this fence will be behind that so you're not you be at some point you're probably not aren't even going to see this fence because it's buffered with trees somewhat irrelevant is what you're saying I say no question is irrelevant irrelevant no but I understand but the effect of pushing it back to 20 feet it would it would have no it would the effect would be di Minimus is what you're telling me fair enough so the only question I had Madam chair Mr travisano um if you were to take I think you said the closest was 17 you could push it back some I'm going to pick a number you can work with the board if we said 25 ft you live out there you Liv out there for 20 odd years are there any other houses in the neighborhood that would have similar situations in other words um are there any other fences that are that close to the street no so again what we're trying to do is not to have the next Neighbor come in and say well you gave Mr travisano 25 feet so give us 25 feet because each person has to come in here and make a proof they they've planted bushes like I have but they've been there much longer so they they don't even need a fence it's their their stuff has grown so big I just put mine in I just wanted the board members to sort of have an understanding of if if you were to stop your car get out stand in his driveway look across the street get an understanding of what it is he's looking at as compared to what it was when he purchased the property and what could have been built at that point in time through the J yeah yes Evan um could you just let us know what has been the position of this board in the past for front yard solid fences I mean we've had many many many times you know side yard SL front yard what has been the standing of this board so th this application is a little unique because most of the front yard most of the solid fence variances that we see here are because they're on Corner Lots right and anything forward of the home on either Frontage is is considered the front yard area so if if you just if you take that if you use that as an example a corner lot uh we would typically ask the applicant um to to offset the fence a minimum of six feet a minimum of six feet from the property line and we do that because in a lot of cases there's an undocumented on the survey uh shade tree and utility easement so we try to stay six feet plus we don't like to see s large six foot fences right up against the sidewalk where kids can Bang into a trip over the post if they're playing or walking that kind of thing so in this case this fence is more than six feet off of the sidewalk which is good I I think he had here uh 10 ft a minimum of 10 ft from the sidewalk so he he he exceeds what we the minimum requirements that we have required in the past right but that's all relative to side yards the question is has this board seen in the past front yards with six foot solid fence so a quter lot has two front yards therefore that I understand there right in this instance where it's not a corner lot yes we we have we've had lots that have had Frontage in the that have had a road in the front and a road in the back so it has two front yards as well and same thing we try to stay a minimum of six feet away from any prop from from the roadway property line no because I just from I visited the property and I anywhere I drove in Anderson Road I didn't see a single fence anywhere right um in the front yard so that was my question as far as that goes um for the applicant I just noticed when I was went to the property um there's a um a fence that you have closer to the house is that something that's I just didn't notice it on the survey or anywhere else is that something that's being included in this variant no no there's what's on it's going to be where the green is across the front and then down the sides only uh 82 ft on one side 78 ft on the other right what the house sits back 175 I understand what I mean is are you going to be including that meaning such such a fence is considered a fence and it also needs the same variance that you're asking for today that would also require such a variance so my my assumption is that it's not there with a permid and it was just put up later I was just misunderstanding that it was you know it needs such variance but it's considered from our professionals and my understanding is that's considered a fence as well that you know maybe worth asking for a variance for that as well yeah but it's not in front of the house that one's behind so there's an existing fence out on the side there's an existing fence on the property right now yes and it's it's is it behind the front of your house yes okay so that doesn't require variance I'm referring to a lattice fence there's a Lattis fence in front of the home oh that part uh yes that's referring to oh that's just for bushes to grow against I didn't get a variance for that no that's been near how tall is that got to be six foot easy 8 foot because there are four sections that are just turned upside down but it's lattice been there since 1989 Jee is it used as a is it a fence or is it something is it something that plants are growing plants are growing but it's not a continuous structure no that's were the if you look at the end of the 82 ft towards the house that piece that comes across is that lattice okay understood I'll defer to the zoning officer whether or not that's considered a fence or a structure it doesn't sound like it but um I haven't I haven't put eyes on it so I can't I won't I don't know U the fact that he'd be getting a very if if you were to enter if you were to approve this application it would be for a six foot high solid fence in the front yard uh minim with minimum a minimum setback of 10 ft from the sidewalk U if those lattice areas are also in the front and they're no higher than six feet but you said they're eight again without seeing them it's difficult to give you a better to give you an answer about if you call it a fence or Trot um and I hate to make it come back again so either a site visit or Mak him part of the application chair um how high is is that lattice fence eight foot because they're 4 by eight sections and it's turned up but it's 8 foot high I'm sorry if you we were looking at the fence head on it's eight foot high that's correct is this one section that's only four foot wide there's five of them four of them is that something that you would be willing to take down or you need it there I I would rather not but if I had to I mean been like I said it's been there since 1989 I don't think that's considered a fence to be honest with you it's a trellis yeah that's what it is you know I I I wouldn't consider that a fence I'd consider that a trellis it doesn't start and it doesn't it doesn't Define an area you know it's it's just a trellis I would just it's not permitted that's right can I ask the question you said there's five of them that are and there so it's a it's technically spans about 20 feet is there space between the four foot sections no they're together I mean Again difficult to say without seeing it if they're if they're all together it's almost difficult to say that it's not a fence based on the definition of fence which I which I don't have in front of me but you have four or five sections together it's almost considered a wall or a barrier or a fence I I would suggest that the board consider it as part of the application to be on the safe side I just like I actually didn't get to visit the property even though I normally do and now I really regret it because I mean I just don't know how I could consider it without having any like visual of what it really looks like and what we're talking about I hate to be inconvenient so from a legal perspective there's a couple options here number one is um you can make that particular eight uh 8 foot trellis part of the application uh considering the fact I do have concerns similar to the zoning officer that because there's five of them and they're together that that creates some sort of barrier um that could easily be considered offense it's a concern um sorry could I ask a follow-up question of course um does it is it uh I know if there's like a pre-existing structure or something that existed before the zoning laws as they are that's sort of grandfathered in is I mean in 1988 or whatever what were the requirements at the time I don't have an immediate answer to that I would our zoning codes were in place in 1988 okay um and there's I have the definition of fence an artificially constructed barrier of wood masonry stone wire metal or other manufacturing material or a combination of materials I mean it from a legal perspective in my opinion it fits the definition so either there's a couple things number one we can consider that as part of the application and consider that for variance um number two the applicant can agree to remove that particular structure I hate to call it a structure but that particular lattice Mass if you will um um or number three we can um adjourn so that uh you know and and I again I hate to do this to you and ask you to come back but if the board wants to do a site visit and see those things and and come back with more informed position um we can also do that if the applicant's not willing to take them down and it doesn't seem to me that the board is willing to Grant a variance on that without seeing it and if it is Lattis which we think we're all we know we think we're familiar with I would call that a 2/3 open fence and it can can be four feet high right it could be four feet high right yeah if you turn or you could turn that's that's a good good option number four you could turn them uh to four feet high and and arguably the zoning officer uh indicating that you'd be in compliance with the zoning ordinances by having a 4 foot open fence in the front yard so those are kind of the options here and really the the balls in your court to tell the board what you want to do well did you say that there was they could come out for a site visit and decide what they want to call it or yeah so so yeah so just to be clear um it wouldn't be an official site visit um I think there are certain board members who didn't get the opportunity to go and look at your property um which is something that um zoning board members are permitted under the law to do uh and often do um to get an idea uh of what what they're actually going to be approving um it seems here that for whatever reason most some of the board members didn't get a chance to go out which is perfectly fine but considering that this is brought up as an issue and and we're now concerned about an 8 foot fence in the front yard I would argue that it would be e if the board's not going to Grant a variance not willing to consider granting a variance on that at this time without seeing it I would recommend that we carry this so that the board members have not had an opportunity to go out and view it have that opportunity then we can revisit um otherwise you can agree to take it down or just simply flip it but um you married sir am I married you don't see Mrs trael here do you I can't say I can take it down smart man yes sir can I ask one more question before we wrap up related to the actual variance application um a wooden six foot high fence like does it mitigate noise I mean I don't think we have sound experts here but is that a a sound barrier it does it acts as a sound barrier yes okay thank you have you can I just I'm sorry you're the board member just one other thing if we do consider it for a variant just keep in mind that it's 8ot it's worse than a six foot because in general we don't have 8 foot fences at all yeah that's that's a good point and so we want to be careful with how we word this for the resolution if you were to consider that 8ot lattice um as part of this variance it would have to be separate in apart in my opinion from the actual fence variance because we don't want an 8 foot fence going in all right um so it would you know while it would be technically two fence variant it's like you don't want to do them separately um have you considered arbites or anything of that nature uh which a natural sound barrier I already put the bushes up front for it's just not working no that's I just want to get that understood that there were bushes but I didn't what kind of bushes are they do you know uh giant arbores oh so okay they're they're like six foot now they're still growing but it's going to be a while not mitigating that noise okay it's help that's all I wanted on the record CH I was just wondering is there any way to find out how much noise abatement a solid six foot fence can do for the property that that appears to be the main reason with traffic from across the street I would say not without the applicant hiring a sound expert which I think would be excessive yeah I know um I I think it's I think if the applic the applicant's testimony is he's put some evergreen trees there and it's helped mitigate the noise but not completely so I think you'd have you can accept his testimony at that it's reasonable to assume that if you were to put a six foot high solid fence in that would also help further mitigate any noise as far as exactly what percentage or from what decimal down to what decibel I don't think that's absolutely necessary information in this application for rest a single F he's okay for his home it's not a commercial application okay thank you can I ask a quick question no go so do you know if any other neighbors of yours have complained about the noise or have the same issues with the noise on that street oh yeah yeah there's there's a lot of noise there's a you know you want to go watch your dirt bikes come on out there they're riding up and down the road Road like they own the place quads they go across the hill in in the development there and ride all around yeah I think I think based upon where we're leaving this off and sort of um up in the air I I think it would be in the best interest of the both the applicant and the board to carry this to a future meeting um so that we have it uh we have an we our board members have an opportunity to go out and view it so that you get the fair shake at uh if you're going to seek that variant okay yep um just to be clear you do want the variance for the8 foot lattice correct yeah that's what I have to get so I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you this right off the bat do you want to amend your application on the record to include that particular variant yes that's just a matter of procedure okay okay all right so we know that that the applicant wants to have Varian so what we'll do is we'll we'll carry this to a another meeting um and I unfortunately don't have the agendas in front of me for the next few meetings that's that's a lie the seventh is there's three on yeah those are three heavy applications I would say maybe what's 2 look like do we know all right so let's carry it to the 21st is that okay for you yeah okay so go ahead yeah I just wanted to get a date um okay so this application is going to be carried but before we do that um we need to open it to the public for what was heard tonight sorry the acoustic I told you I'm I'm guilty myself um what we need to do is open this matter to the public uh the public has an opportunity to comment um so uh when the chair is ready she'll do that and then we can carry this okay okay thank you thank you okay we're going to open this application up to the public forum if anybody wishes to come forward and make any comments on the app the application and the information that they've heard this evening please do so not seeing any anyone come forward we're going to go ahead and close public session very good thank you madam chair um this is application number one on this evening's agenda Anthony and Patricia uh trevisano uh that's block 2801 lot 81 location is 93 932 Anderson Road this is variance number 3513 this application is going to be carried to the August 21st 2024 meeting of the Jackson Township zoning Board of adjustment no further not is going to be required um I don't think there's an issue of time here but presuming that the board is out of time to act will you wave that time frame question what's the question under the municipal land use law the board only has a certain amount of time to act on a variance application I don't know what that time frame is in this particular application however if that is an issue I presume that you're going to wave the time requirement that's correct okay so the applicant has waved time on the record um so we will reconvene on this application on August 21st thank you thank you have a good night thank you okay we're going to move forward to applicant number two mosha and Lisa Weiss variant 3502 486 clear Stream Road good evening my name is Katherine kimp from The Firm of clear geobia Fe and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant Moshi and Lisa weit uh we're here today seeking a bulk variance relief for the property located in Block 13601 lot three also known as 486 clear Stream Road um there's currently a pre-existing um residential dwelling on the lot and it's located in the R3 Zone where residential uses are permitted um the applicant is seeking u based on the uh survey up there in addition to the rear portion of the property adjacent to the uh pool So based on the zoning denial that we um my client receiv received when they first applied for a zoning permit um the or uh Jackson's ordinance has it so that any um any setbacks that in um that exceed any pre-existing sidey setbacks require a variance relief so in this case um the existing dwelling is about approximately 29 ft from the side yard stepback but here based on the addition they're looking to um construct the proposed side yard now is about approximately 22 ft it's about a 7 ft um addition uh widening from what is existing there right now um so I have here with me both the applicant um and a licensed architect who can go through the addition but uh ultimately what we're looking for is just the side yard set of relief uh I understand that the R3 Zone is uh requires I believe 130 square ft lot area um and in this instance uh the property is about approximately 43 square feet which is severely unders sized compared to what the zoning requirements set at so that's why the addition is located in in the location that we show on the layout here based on the configuration of the lot and how the pre existing dwelling was constructed and the available space to um include uh construct this addition just for the board's clarification um R3 Zone requires 130,000 square feet um or three acres of um area uh it appears that this is about one acre 43,000 square fet so just so that that that's clear on the record so uh we had originally submitted plans um that was prepared by a a space designer when we first uh filed for the zoning permit um so that was the plans I originally submitted um since then the applicant has retained a licensed architect to prepare a formalized plan so part of this is that they're going to construct an unfinished basement and then there's going to be a first and second floor um the height is approximately about 32t which is under what the uh Zone requires I believe is 35t uh they're looking to make this addition so they construct um additional bedrooms and a like a den family area on the first floor second floor would be two bedrooms um we have the architect here who if you if the board has any questions as to design and the layout of the the addition we have Mr gar unle here too Mr did you want to say something I think ER Ernie and I were looking at the the plan the survey plan I guess an older version of a plan you said this space designer or somebody did yes it I don't know what that is but I'm glad you got away from that because we had a lot of questions there was a what we say a a deceased surveyor referenced on there possibly so yeah we have uh the so we have this plan but this is this is a copy of a survey that somebody drew the addition onto it was this isn't right I mean the survey the Surveying Company didn't draw all the stuff on there somebody else did so was that also the space planner that that Drew on top of the survey uh yes I believe so okay um which is fine I'm just I just want clarification on that that's yeah we have a survey from an um a deceased surveyor but we got updated ones from Morgan engineering correct well you got an updated survey but the surve or didn't draw the addition and the dimensions in uh they didn't the Ser the dimensions that you have for the addition are in feet and inches professional surveyors don't measure thing in feet and inches they measure them in decimal feet okay okay so it's obvious that this this plan was prepared by two folks someone prepared the survey then someone drew on top of it we can ask the applicant if just to confirm that if you no that's okay I just I I just want to I'm not suggesting that there's anything necessarily wrong with it I don't want the board to think that a professional prepared this plan or a surveyor prepared the plan that's all if if we've had people sketch that on there before that's fine um you know the dimensions I think uh the dimensions whatever you're you have depicted on here you would have to hold to right um I would I would point out though the dimension of 93t 9 in um typically when we draw Dimensions we draw them perpendicular to property lines that one doesn't mean anything to any of us sitting here but you don't need a variance for that regardless but um that 93 foot 9 Dimension somewhat arbitrary um I would point out to the board though if you look at the survey the the existing home on the left side or the South side of the house is 23.3 Ft from the property line on from the southernly property line at it short at its closest distance uh the applicant is proposing that rear addition to be 22 feet 8 in off of the north property line so I just want to point those two Dimensions out Madam chair if I might I don't know if we've heard Witnesses yet but as of yet as respectfully as I can say it and I don't like fighting with attorneys only person we've heard from is attorney hasn't been sworn we can't cross-examine she's not a professional so it sort of we need fact witnesses to come up and tell us what otherwise we we we haven't heard anything as it relates to the proofs other than someone wants to do something they need a variance you indicated that there's already testimony we have the applicant the home owner and the registered or the licensed architect LIC architect okay great all right so did you want to start with the homeowner or the architect yeah we could have the homeowners start very good okay good evening if you would please raise your right hand do you affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth if you would please y might not be on uh it's on the bottom still not working yes there we go all right perfect if you would please state your name spell your last name provide your um address and your affiliation to this application please MOA Weiss 486 clear Stream Road Jackson New Jersey Weis homeowner very good thank you so much your witness um I guess I'll just we let we let the board know prior to coming in that it wasn't that um it wasn't drawn up professionally by an engineer and they we told them it's a 10day wait they said to come in anyhow since it was pushed up from me we did let them know you going to talk into the mic yes we sorry we let the board know prior that um it wasn't wasn't going to be able to be drawn up by an engineer as we didn't know that that it needed to be done and they said to come in anyhow we did let them know prior to to this meeting so based on the survey that uh the board engineer just pointed out who Drew in the addition on the Morgan engineering the space planner the space planner and we let them know that it wasn't going to be drawn up to scale with a professional they said that that we should still come into the meeting um and what is this addition for extra extra living space so what does that consist of what's on the first floor two bedrooms and a play play area in the basement okay and wait so the bedroom room is on the second floor or the first floor the first floor okay and what's on the second floor which is considered the attic will be a storage space okay and then the basement is unfinished recreational room and unfinished basement it's an unfinished basement okay the attic as well would that be unfinished uh yeah I I I mean I don't have much else to add to his testimony unless the board Consultants wish to cross-examine the applicant or the board members so no will be finished the attic will be finished correct through the chair could I just get clarification on this plan it looks like it says the proposed first floor shows a den not the bedrooms and that the proposed second floor is bedrooms is that I just I don't think that's what I heard you say I just want to make sure I'm understanding if it's a change or if it was a mistake like does the plan that we're showing that that you show line up with what you're looking to do or is it something different um actually before if you don't mind we can have the architect describe the layout which might be easier I just the question you asked Mr Weiss was what's going to be on the first floor and what's going to be on the second floor I guess could you just um clarify like on the first floor is going to be the bedrooms I think that's what I heard you say correct the first floor is going to be the bedrooms yes okay I guess we'll wait for the architect to explain yeah can I uh no yet I mean when in due time I mean like I'll hold my question yeah I mean if you're finished with your homeowner I mean um I don't know if there was anyone else who wanted to cross-examine the homeowner well did did someone just say and I almost I don't know if I'm repeating Miss P's comment but someone said there's a finished basement is that correct un finish basement finish adct no I'm ask oh sorry I listened to the testimony is the basement finished or not we have to swear in the architect then it's only way for him to respond to these questions unfinished basement I think you have two different plans that we looking at if you want to swear in the architect I'll do that yeah let's just do that let's start with the architect if you would sir please raise your right hand do you affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I affirm yes if you would please uh state your name um provide your affiliation and your credentials LS garfinkle g r f i n ke L registered architect um licensed since uh 1228 1998 um New Jersey license um so I just think to clarify am I okay yeah have you appeared before any boards in the state of New Jersey before sure New York New York a lot you know New York yeah I'm licensed in New York state yeah and um have you ever testified in spe Court in New Jersey actually yes in New Jersey I did in I think Bic I was and you've been you said you've been licensed since 1998 New Jersey yes okay and uh where did you uh get your degree from Pratt Institute Brooklyn and would you obtain that degree architecture yes what's question when did you obtain your degree 1995 and you were licensed in New York first yes and when were you licensed in New York same about this you know what I graduated 1990 and the license was issued 95 very New York State yeah um I'm sureair I I I think I've wered the witness far enough to consider him an expert for the purposes of architecture testimony you're welcome okay I just think that the question that was asked about the den I I I I prepared a plan did you the plan you're looking at does it have Lis garfinkle on the lower right yes that's the confusion okay because the space planner did had had two bedrooms on the first floor that was submitted with the application so we're not 100% clear or we don't have Clarity on the interior yet so so the second floor is going to have bedrooms okay and it's a second floor it's not an attic okay and we have a basement first floor and second floor let me ask you a few questions to clarify for everybody because I think we're all a little bit confused right now so let's start over let's talk about the basement finished or unfinished my plan says unfinished would you be finishing it I I don't know maybe maybe depending on cost you know okay but there'll be no B there'll be no bedrooms in the basement no exits there is an exit okay yeah question if you plan on through the chair if you plan on finishing the basement what plans do you have are you going to have bathrooms down there kitchens down there uh do you have an entrance from the outside directly into the basement right so like I said we're not clear on the exact the design cuz like they had a space planner that started this and I came in now I I submitted a plan um we put in just unfinished basement um I don't I think if there was um hold on I think if they were looking to uh construct a kitchen or bathroom down there they would have to go in for permits anyway so at that time if it gets denied it gets denied but as of right now the applicant is looking just for an unfinished basement well respect respectfully if they come in and say it's an unfinished basement they want to finish it they're coming back to this board which is correct but maybe the homeowner should speak on this possibly we'd like to finish we' like to finish it with the bathroom and just the recreational area so the basement you're saying excuse me right so again I'm just trying to make sure we number one have this on the record correctly so we all understand what it is you're trying to do like we have a basement you'd like to finish correct with a bathroom and what else sir bathroom and uh recreational space respectfully I'm going to make I'm going to make a respectful suggestion here um this application is is nothing short of a mess at this point I'm going to suggest that the applicant get the application in order come back to the board and present what you want to do because the plans clearly don't show what you want to do that's not going to fly before the board the board is not going to be able to make a determination based off the testimony we heard tonight and if they do you're not I I would venture to Guess that you're probably not going to like it so my suggestion to you would would be to carry the application and come back with actual plans so in in this circumstances I understand that there are some questions as to what the a layout is going to look out look like but my understanding was that this was strictly for a sidey guard setback variance so I don't know if I maybe this is for clarification purposes but if the layout were to change would we have to come back for a new board approval the interior layout versus the footprint of the existing addition really careair if I may one I I don't see how I'm sorry was did I interrupt somebody no no no agree with the attorney okay um does this property have a septic system yeah yes okay now how can we even decide it's probably we don't know the number of bedrooms because at that point he would have to go to the Ocean County Board Board of Health get that approved we don't know if they'll even be new septic system needed so all right let me stop you there Dr hofstein uh so that's an outside agency approval it's not it's common for the board to review and approve applications similar to this obviously subject to them receiving Board of Health approval for any septic improvements that have to be completed if they leave here with an approval and then they go to the Ocean County Health Department to apply for a septic expansion and for whatever reason cannot get it then they can't build okay but in this case acept it's a routine septic expansion it's not the jurisdiction of this board I know it's not our our jurisdiction but uh uh there was a request for a waiver on this issue so I don't think we could yeah no those no that that don't don't be confused with waiver requests with them not still having to get approval a waiver request is just not submitting to the health department prior to submitting the application to come here it doesn't wave them from getting any and all necessary outside approvals okay thank you yes Mr h the an they're definitely not prepared to present this application to the board and it shouldn't be up to us to ask all of these questions and try to determine what the applicant is trying to do they need to tell us what they want to do and I think they need to come back through the chair we we were under the impression that this first was to get the subject approval for the actual zoning and then to come and resubmit for the actual space and to hire an engineer to draw it up professionally this is just the initial step to get it approved for the for the buildout you're not seeking use variant you're seeking a you're seeking a side yard setback variant yes but in seeking the sidey setback variants you're doing it because you're seeking an addition so the board is entitled to ask these questions and they're entitled to know what's going to be going on and why the addition is necessary because but for the addition you wouldn't need decide your setback variants right so it's that issue and the fact of the matter here is that we're not we we it's not clear what what's going on here I mean that's my position can I ask you a question um I think I heard you say that if the layout were to change they wouldn't have to come back to us unless the layout the only variance that's being sought right is for the sidey guard setback so unless that's going to be made worse by the new layout then most likely they're not coming back because it's not a use variance application we're not approving the use it's a permitted use so I know I actually asked the first question just because I thought he misspoke because I was looking at the plan and I was expecting to hear bedrooms on the second floor and I just thought it was uh I thought it was a uh you know he just misspoke but technically if the if it's for I think the first thing he said is additional living space if that's technically like the catchall of whether it's a den here and you know a bathroom here and a bedroom there and ultimately the footprint is what it is whether he has a clear plan here um if he could change the layout inside and it doesn't affect what our determination is I'm I'm curious like well then why would he have to have this organized at this point it's it's not like he's saying well you know I might want to use it for I don't know a public library or like you said a use a use change or it's it's living space exactly where and what I I I would wonder why does he have to have it I understand that you know it's it's you know maybe would be a little bit more of a smooth flow if it was more organized in you know there was one version and all the answers were sort of just flow then we would we would you know have moved through it within probably 30 seconds and just beyond to the next portion but technically I mean if it doesn't impact our determination and like ultimately what a resolution would look like and you know wouldn't what an effect is need to come back then I I guess I'm curious why it like maybe we shouldn't even be spending time on exactly what the layout is maybe we're always think everybody's time focusing on it well the only reason and and the lawyer and me wants to answer that 16 different ways okay but I'm going to answer it the way that I I'm G to answer it for the for this board all right and historically this board when considering a any type of variance with regard to um an addition or or something of that nature typically wants to know what they're what they're approving you know so uh again it's it's not irrelevant and it's certainly not outside the scope because but for the addition the side yard setback they wouldn't be here for a side yard setback right although they're here for an extension of living space that that didn't change and that and I again technically if we want to say well you know are they going to rent out the basement or those kind of questions that would move into like a use kind of question so I could see how some of these questions might be relevant for the purpose of why we're here and making sure that you know we're approving we understand what we're approving um but like if the the bedrooms are this way or that way I would just to me it seems like you know that like I'm super I I have questions about well what is the sidey setback I understand it's an undersized lot Mr Hill pointed out that the you know the the side yard set back of the of the I think southernly border is is you know maybe a foot um larger than what they're requesting I feel like I'm almost like I know I asked the question but at this point I'm like certainly I would love to focus on the sidey setback question so the and that's a great Point Mr perz and certainly that's your prerogative as a board member um you know uh certain board members are going to want to know what's going on and certain you know others you know again that you're not wrong it's is how I'll put it um what I will tell you is um that with regard to the um sidey setback itself it's you know it's we're going to go through C Baron criteria right and so you know and we'll ask the same questions we always ask is there any effect on the impervious coverage is there any effect on the building coverage is there any variance necessary there well we know probably that's not the case at this point but um you know those are the things that that we want to hear in term and it's a great point because those are the things that we want to hear in terms of a c variance for sideart setback um but the questions that the board is asking in in relation to the use itself is something that should be known and they're not they're not trick questions right so um you know it's not as if we're talking about you know you know a warehouse office space or you know something of that nature I mean we're talking about a residential home you know and technically the applicant the application as I see it right now from a from solely a completeness standpoint might be deficient you know so uh I'm trying to figure out a way and that's not a knock on you Mr Hill no no no I just want to I want to clarify this for this is not a use variance application it's not a site plan application this is a bulk variance application and for bulk variance applications there is no rigid huge development checklist that we require we typically require a survey sometime and we require that an addition be sketched in on that survey all right we for additions we Tech we technically don't require architectural plans for New home builds we do but for an addition we don't that was something that they they gave us that's not that's not our checklist that's the Township's checklist so they've submitted a complete application you may not you may want more information above and beyond the minimum requirements that's your prerogative but hear me out this was a complete application it was deemed complete by by the zoning office now with respect to why we're here I'm going to I'm going to circle back to miss par as we're here for a bulk Mar variance application for a c variance for a sidey yard setback that's it inside the house I understand wanting to see those details I get it you could probably draw that information out of the applicant tonight and hope and that could probably satisfy you for why you're here you're here for a side yard setback correct we're not space planning somebody's house for them okay right that's kind of what we're get you were getting at so I mean it's entirely up to you um we I don't think we've heard all the variance testimony as of yet of why you need a set why you need a setback variance that's right um I think you could put that information on the record and maybe clarify what's going maybe clarify what's going on with the architectural plans of what you propose to submit for building permits right um and then maybe go from there I think it's important to clarify by the the plans that I I think they referred to as space plans was submitted with the original application that have a title block that includes the word avidid scanning those differ from Mr garfinkle plans considerably and in areas that might affect and I heard board members ask is there an access to the basement on the plans that were originally submitted it was clearly shown there was an access from the basement to exterior stairs those stairs are closer to the property line than what the variance application calls for so it would change the variance relief Mr garfinkle plans are much clearer as it relates to what the addition looks like but we haven't reconciled which one of those we're supposed to use PL on top of the survey excuse me could you please have take the child out into the hole thank you okay sorry Mr so I I just think as as whether the applicant's attorney clarifies which plans we're using or the witnesses clarify which plans we're using I think that's extremely important to figure out what the relief is going to be whether or not you're going to need to have a grading plan to make sure that they can do what they're proposing to do because we're taking this without grading without topography without tree clearing without a bulk schedule because the only application was filed with the zoning officers for a sidey setback so we're not really getting nitpicky it's confusing what was originally submitted and what we have before us this evening which is the reason that the the questions that were asking seemed confusing to the applicants Witnesses because we had two sets of information that are different listen Ja Jackson is a nice place to come for variances especially bulk variances I can tell you from my own personal experience that I submitted recently for bulk Vari variance in another town and I was required to submit a plot plan a variance table a this that the other thing uh all the way up in to this is 190 94 foot Edition for a pre-existing non-conforming bulk variants not being made worse by the addition I've had to submit elevations every everything under you name it I had to submit it so Jackson it's not Berkeley no it is I don't want to throw another town under the bus but it's not been a pleasant experience so um you know these are the kind you know it Jackson's a great place to come for a variant because like you said you don't have we don't have we don't have all those requirements that maybe sometimes we should um but at the same time Miss Parnes is 100% accurate and and I want to give her credit for that because she's right this is a bulk variance application and as Mr Hill stated that's the variance is needed however because they are here for a bulk variance related to in in addition the board is entitled to find out more about that and there's no obligation to Grant of variance if the board is unsatisfied with the proofs that are put forth right now if they meet the standards for the bulk variant then we might have a different discussion however we haven't heard that yet um so again I'll I'll leave it to the applicant how they want to proceed um but I I I do know that the historically and setting up here giving guidance to the board I'm also in a roundabout way trying to give guidance to the applicant because historically I'm familiar with this board and so I just want to be clear um that while we are here for a a c variant and I I again miss par you made it a wonderful Point um you know let's do the best that we can to balance that c variance with you know the proofs that the board might want to hear and although I agree with miss parns my confusion was the two different sets of information hence the reason for my questions we you also um Mr Hill pointed out about the 23.3 side yard setb back further up on the property I had questions if you look at the um survey I also had questions they're looking at 22.8 for a side yard on the addition but there's a shed back there is that even closer so that was one of my questions the oil tank seems closer to the house I wanted the professionals to touch on that for me this is why I was asking the questions even though I understand it's it's quote unquote just a sidey yard setback discussion that oil tank seems awfully close to the house so I I was just hoping you you I would get to ask that type of stuff and again that shed that's behind the addition looks closer to the side yard than the addition would be and is that was that shed did they obtain the necessary permits and varities for that we're going to have to wait for you can ask the applicant The Sheds existing from proba when I purchased the house and it's not an oil tank it's a disconnected propane tank from a pool heater which is which is no longer tank correct which is no longer in use so Jeff do we know if that shed was properly permitted or because that's even closer I believe I got a SE when I moved in about the 17 18 years ago 056 yeah the certificate of occupancy isn't going to correct a pre-existing nonconformity I think the zoning board just wants to make sure that we're catching any variants that might be necessary which this board historically does it's not that's not a knock on you I think they're trying to clean up if if there's any prior issue any non-conformity that exists so we can just clarify I think we should just then um use the architectural plans that were prepared by Mr garfinkle who is here tonight and then we can use a survey that was provided by Morgan engineering those are the two exhibits that we want to focus uh that we want to use so the one glaring deficiency that I see in this application is I haven't heard one single piece of testimony about the variance criteria we like so um do we have do you have a planner or who's going to testify as to that well I was going to just go over the hardships with the applicant okay will the board require a professional [Music] planner I yeah I I can't I can't say I mean all I can say is that you need to satisfy the the you know either C1 or C2 so that's I I don't necessarily think that we're in the nature you know in the business of requiring anything um but I'm just I want to make sure the the proofs are on the record okay I'm not sure if I'm going to answer your question you know terms of planning again the the house is SC is scooted you know it's not you know it's not right and the only way to build an addition would be the way we're showing you know pretty much the areas this trees there's trees all over you know you can't even see the neighbors's you know prop you know house on the right you know if you look in there's an aerial view I think that was submitted and was that submitted oh no okay but it's just really well tree you know there's trees all all around and just we're talking 7 feet you know 29 is existing the code says you can go we can go straight uh parallel with the property line that would if we did that there would be an angle you know the house would have to angle you know the addition so I'm not typically in the habit of cross-examining um applicants Witnesses but I will here uh this is a 43,000 foot lot correct correct and this is a 43,000 SQ foot lot in a zone that requires 130,000 square feet is that correct correct all right and given the fact that uh the Zone correct me if I'm wrong Jee but I'm going off memory requires 50 foot side yard seex is that correct on each side yes okay and um if you were to give us 50 foot setbacks on each side you wouldn't even have home no so you're already non-conforming correct right now um what is the current this is this is what I'm going to ask and I don't know if anybody's going to know um what's the current situation with regard to the sard setbacks we know we have 29 I think on the other 23 on the you have you currently have 23 23 on the left side there's an arrow there that's 23.3 see that blow it up if you want I like your worst your worst point you know the smallest Point Mr garfinkle I apologize if I got your name incorrectly Le yeah so um the shed do you know the side yard setback from the shed no I do not but homeowner said he'd remove it if necessary I don't know the I'm sorry planning to remove you're removing the okay okay so it looks to me as if the on the north side of the property currently it sits 20 3.3 ft from the side property line that's on the south side and then on the north right yeah and then on the North side you're proposing 22.8 228 yeah so really it's a it's a it's a currently you have 20 23.3 on the North side and now you want 22. I'm sorry strike that you have 20 23.3 on the north on the south side and now you're per now you're requesting 22.8 on the North side okay technically I think sorry to interrupt I think it's technically 23.66 it's just 8 in oh I'm sorry thank you Miss parz I appreciate it um right we did discuss that okay um what's the current what is the current okay you know what the current side so you're going from 30 feet 8 in correct down to 22 feet 8 Ines is that correct yes okay can I ask a quick question I'm sorry inter okay I'm just curious um 23.3 on one side like in theory if they were to be only 23.3 on the other side would they still require they would still require the same exact early that's so just for the record that's why I differentiated between the North and the South side because each side requires if it was on the other side then it would be correct continuation that's correct so uh currently uh there's a pre-existing nonconformity um with a 30 foot 8 in and I'm not going to try to do the decimals um that they're proposing to shift to 22 feet 8 in by installing this Edition so really it's a what it's a it's a eight foot difference here we're talking about yes um again uh can you tell me a little bit about the neighborhood other properties similarly situated is this neighborhood a you know a one acre lot neighborhood within a three acre zone is that what we're dealing with I believe so a lot of uh Lots in the neighborhood so I just want to confirm that many of your surrounding neighbors have undersized Lots I believe so correct okay is this going to cause any detrimental impact to any of your neighbors I don't believe so on your I'm just I just want to uh base off that on the North side of your property um with the addition be going closer to neighbor like neighbor wise who lives the closest to your building neighbor Wise It's not going closer to anybody because it's in the back which is all wooded thank you could I ask a question of course um to the north where is the closest structure to that property line do you know about the 50 the actual house or property line which one how close is the closest structure to that property line should be 100 feet or more away okay and the are just sorry go ahead and the area is wooded correct correct and just to clarify you purchase the property in this condition for the addition correct in' 05 okay my family was a lot [Music] smaller Jeff do we know if this area was rezoned it's R3 now was it always R3 it was changed I don't know that it was always R3 I know that there there's a code that protects undersized Lots in the R3 Zone this this property was never one of the protections is it had to have been had to have been once R1 through research this area of town was never R1 maybe an R2 maybe M1 there was different zoning designations so it doesn't meet it doesn't qualify for the protections because it was never zoned R1 you may have an R40 even at one point I mean really what we're talking about here I mean from a variance perspective what we're talking about here is a C1 hardship Vari Varan right there exists um specific uh hardships associated with an undiz lot um in a Zone you know you have a one acre lot in a three acre Zone um so no no matter what uh this this homeowner does to try and improve his property he's going to have to come here right before the zoning board the R1 right so the way the denial was written was solely for the side yard setback I figured okay and and if the applicant were to maintain that 29 Point whatever it is feet along the northern property line then the setback would not be an issue right so so really what we're here for is about eight feet ins side yard setback that's what we're here for that's what the board is really deliberating on um and again you know I I I just cross cross-examine the applicant here um to assist in trying to make this case uh you know or at least put the variance proofs on the record that could justify a variance and and again the C1 variance criteria number one you have to prove the positive criteria which is um that you have a hardship and I think uh I think here we we've established that there's a hardship based upon the size of the lot it's under siiz for the Zone um you know you know so so no matter what he's going to require a variance right um but the applicant has to prove the negative criteria and that's part a uh is there a substantial detriment to the public good or neighboring properties right um and Part B uh which is is there a substantial um impairment to the Zone plan or Zone ordinance here um and that's some those are the things that the board has to away if you've heard that testimony tonight and feel comfortable granting the C variance you could um if not um then then that's again that that's something that you have to weigh I cannot weigh that for you I cannot tell you how to vote okay I have a question just to follow up with uh Mr garfinkle on the south side there is a 20 23 approximately 23 ft um side yard setb correct correct okay so on this side we're looking at approximately 22 and a half roughly with the inches and feet thing going on correct on the Miss par has asked the question about the neighbor to the north how close is the neighbor to the South so that would be that would be this one here to the left the building so it's 20 feet from the fence so it's 40 right so it's 43 feet from house to house approximately he's saying 20 yeah and there's a fence in between there's a fence yeah we're not we're not we're not building on that side anywhere as as well as the trees that are already there yes there trees there okay I just have a couple more questions I don't have a variance table so again I don't I don't know the answer to this question but does the addition cause any issue with building coverage or impervious coverage the percentages under the ordinance is is satisfactory still in compliance is how I'll put it okay that's important all right so that's an important consideration because again the house is not too big right the house even with the addition the house is not we wouldn't consider this house to be too large under our ordinances right so um if there's no you know again this is a three acre zone right so if he's on a one acre lot in a three acre Zone and there's still no issue with impervious coverage or building coverage then that's a pretty good indication um that that we're not we're not trying to do too much from a use perspective right um and again I know we tend to focus on use but but as Miss pornes correctly pointed out we're here for a sidey yard setback variant and we're talking about 8 feet any other questions for the applicant or witness would you like to make any closing statement before I open it to the public I was just going to ask if there was any questions from the board Consultants or the zoning officer [Music] not can I wait to do closing statement comments absolutely you are I'm going to now open this to the public to uh anyone wishing to make any comments regarding the application that you've heard tonight please come forward at this time excuse good evening Mr Martins thank you for raising right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board or represent truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth yes I do if you would please state your name spell your last y Carlos Martins m a r t NS um I live at 406 Coan Road Jackson New Jersey thank you my friend so I'm far away I have no you know I'm not a neighbor or anything so just the general questions um so R3 right and um three acres but when the house was built they got they were okay they said okay now you could be just one acre and we'll let you build this house in there right so once that was done do the setbacks and all the regulations are based on one acre you know the R1 code or is it still based on the R3 no The Zone the zoning requirements don't change so it's still R3 so because it's in the R3 Zone it's subject to the R3 Zone requirements okay okay so my thing I I know I hear 8 foot right but the fact is wouldn't it be the shed the end of of the addition versus what the requirement is which I think was 50 it so I struggle with the 8T said oh it's only an additional 8 ft but you already got a waiver for 23 I think well it's it's that's a that's a valid question but when we when we talk about zoning what we're talking about is a pre-existing non-conformity right right so right now the zoning already sits at 30 feet 8 Ines rough roughly right so it is only technically being made worse because we're not going to go and and now apply a 50 foot setback to something that's already 308 in right so when we talk about a pre-existing non-conformity and when we look at C variances and and again this is also for the board's benefit what we're really looking at is the pre-existing non-conformity being made worse by what's proposed and if so is that variance appropriate okay I I understand that let me let me just rephrase a little bit see if I get this right so in essence once you approve the non-conformity that's that's the new rule right and now you're asking for the addition okay for that property that's corre for that property correct so so don't worry about yeah okay I'm there um that was really my questions and thank you very much you're welcome anyone else wishing to come forward and make any comments about this application seeing no one else come forward and I'm going to close public session if You' like to make your closing statement thank you madam chair um so just to kind of sum up everything that's going on here tonight is that we have the applicant and the homeowner Mr Weiss has come before the board with a severely undersized lot wherein the R3 Zone requires 130,000 square feet but he has currently approximately about 43,000 43,000 square feet um he purchased this property back in 2005 with the existing conditions shown on the survey minus the proposed addition which shows that pretty much that the building envelope based on the zoning requirements in an R3 Zone makes it near impossible for him to construct a home on the existing lot so based on the the zoning standards and the existing pre-existing non-conforming conditions Mr uh Weiss is here for a bulk variance relief for for the change in for the encroachment of the addition on the sidey setback previously being about approximately 29 feet now proposing to be approximately 22 feet you know um he's also put on the record saying that this addition will be on the side furthest from his neighbor meaning the on the North side the uh the neighbor is approximately over a 100 feet away versus the neighbor who's on the south side which is about approximately 20 feet from the property line and about approximately 40 feet from structure to structure so and I believe and he's also shown that based on the living conditions that he has right now this is a relatively small home for his family and he is looking to expand for his immediate family not for purposes of renting out to other users and other occupants or tenants this is strictly for his home and his family members um we believe that the records presented shows that there is little minimal to little or none impact on the surrounding area considering many of his neighbors also have undersized Lots um and the addition is proposed in the rear portion of the property so the addition will not be clearly seen in in the front of the House pass uh by any neighbors or anyone driving by or walking past this property um I don't know if you had a chance to look at the immediate uh the area and an area photography but this is a densely wooded area um it's near um you can see from Google aerial um images that everything is forested and it's very private so the neighbors and Mr Weiss himself are shielded from you know the neighbors seeing what's going on in their properties based on the forward area um we do not um I don't think there was any testimony here um providing saying that this is inconsistent with the with the master plan and the zoning that's currently existing in this area we um it's uh pretty consistent with the surrounding neighborhood and the use of the area area and we believe that this would would not be any detriment to the existing master plan and detriment or a negative impact on his neighbors and surrounding neighborhood um other than that we ask that the board consider the minimal impact and the variation being about 78 feet um the DI Minimus and therefore the variance to be granted um would be appropriate for the addition proposed on uh the property 486 clear Stream Road for Mr Mrs Weiss thank you okay board refer from the applicant in the public that up ask for discussion closer to your m is by approving a very tightly stated application with how far it is from the property line we're we're giving the applicant license to add a basement and two stories and to use it basically any way he wants I mean he says that he's going to use it to expand the living area but he can't even tell us how he's going to change the living area he hasn't mentioned uh whether the addition will be level with the it the roof is sloping will the Upper Floor align with the highest point he hasn't told us what materials are going to be used to build the uh extension will it match the rest of the house or are we creating an isore uh it's it's just that we're we're being locked into something and traditionally this board over the years has always asked these questions about what is doing in the house and how you going to do it and the applicant is just being wishy-washy about what's going on you would think if somebody is going to spend a lot of money expanding expanding his house he would know what he's putting in there by now and uh I don't know whether I could vote to approve this the chair um there wasn't any height variance requested so if there was a height issue that wouldn't be approved under this variant um it's my opinion that if he's coming for just a bulk side yard setb back and he would do anything else that's a Code Enforcement issue um so I don't think we have to worry about approving it and then you know if if it's going to be used for something else um just to I guess th those were the two points that were addressed by Dr hofstein so those were my two immediate thoughts on those um points but generally regarding this application um the the way the the dwelling was constructed on the lot and this was established that this um was not created by the applicant um the configuration of the structure is such that there's really no other way that he could extend his house um and again he's not he's not exceeding lot coverage or improves coverage he's looking to extend the living space of his home um within all the zoning requirements but for the sidey setback relief that he's looking for for and um if if he were to keep it along the same sidey setback that exists today that would make for a very oddly shaped extension that um might be an eyesore but certainly would be inconvenient for the applicant um and probably his contractor as well um to me it's it's it's a classic hardship that he didn't create um and so you know to me it seems like it it meets the positive criteria when you establish if there's negative criteria I didn't really hear um any and certainly uh you know with the densely wooded area and the distance the one thing I wanted to you know contemplate was well how close are we moving in on the neighbor doesn't seem to be an issue um I I to me I I feel like this is a very reasonable request um with a established hardship and no established negative uh impact on the purpose of zoning or the surrounding area Madam chair if I may um on once again miss Parnes took the words right out of my mouth um so I I'm going to caution the board maybe historically is not the always the best way um what we are here for uh and as you heard the zoning officer testify as to the reason for the denial is the sidey yard setback and ask I'm going to ask the applicant two two two very pointed questions number one your plans show that there's an outside and I know I know your plans show that there's an outside entrance to the basement are you planning on renting the basement at all to anyone definitely not will you stipulate that this is for a single family use only correct and you're not requesting any height variances or any other variances that we don't know about correct correct we're going to tie it into the house in the most neat way and finish it in the same material councelor I think it's important to differentiate we haven't done that yet I thought we were getting rid of the space plans the original plans when we going with the current Architects PL that's correct thank you Mr Peters to the extent that we have to do it officially I don't know what we called the original plans but the first set of plans that look like the space plans appear to be dated September 1st 2023 so while they're I guess in evidence we should note that those plans are not being utilized for the purposes of the board making a decision the plans that are being utilized are the ones prepared by Mr garfinkle that's correct and we will note that for the record you stipulate that the plans being utilized are the plans prepared by the testifying architect Mr garfinkle correct yes yes we're going to be using uh Mr ging's plans wonderful thank you very much sir I appreciate it I think that alleviates the the you know the the questions that the board may have as to the use but again we're not here for use we're here for a bulk variance and the only criteria that you should be evaluating is to see they are seeking a C1 variance for a hardship so the only criteria that we're evaluating tonight for the purposes of granting a variance is that C1 criteria not hypotheticals so I would like to Echo Mrs harness's statements I just would point out Although our zoning officer did point out this was never a R1 Zone my understanding is that for an R1 which would be in one acre the side yard setback would be only 20 feet am I correct thinking an R1 yes right so here we're over that amount so I think it would be very reasonable to Grant such a variance due to the hardship and nature of this um property any additional comments so obviously you heard the confusion earlier because of the two different plans we clarified on the record that we're going with the plans that were prepared for Mr garfinkle um the applicant is already uh stated that the oil tank that is shown which we I had some questions and concerns over is not an oil tank it's a disconnected propane tank and that the shed is being removed um given that we're here just to look at the sidey yard setback I would just point out we're looking at 22.8 on the North side when it's 23.3 on the South Side um so I think that we already have obious as it was stated a pre-existing non-conformity um on the other side of the house which isn't going to be much bigger than this one um given that information and given the fact that it's not going to affect the neighbors um the the area pointed out multiple times is extremely well wooded so it's not going to affect the neighbors the house on the north side is further forward toward the street I said that properly right further forward towards the street so it doesn't affect that home and then the house to the southide is closer but it's still not an eyes sore or anything like that because of the wooded area given that information I wouldn't have a problem with approving this application through the chair yes I'd like to make a motion to approve this variance application I would second that we have a motion in a second so we're going to ask for a roll call Mr Hyman yes Mr hofstein oh Dr Mr Hudak frankly I will V um Miss parnaz yes Miss Rosal yes Miss Bradley yes congratulations thank you very much everyone have a good evening you too motion to adjourn all in favor I