one says Greg and one says Gregory okay what do you prefer any I don't know why I did that it doesn't matter I agree with you but I'm just say I call you I you can call me you want just not leave for din my one chair over of the motion so far so good thank you to call this meeting to order please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance [Music] un States good evening ladies and gentlemen uh pursuing to njsa 10 col 4 the open public meetings act notice of this duly and regularly scheduled meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment has been published and posted in all appropriate locations roll call please here here here here and on that note I'd like to welcome Dr hofstein to the board thank you and I believe we have resolutions this evening yes resolution number 20 24-12 resolution of the Zoning Board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting in part and denying in part variance to construct a new single family dwelling on an undersized lot for property located at East Pleasant Grove Road Block 9702 lot 20 move to approve Mr Hurley yes Miss frch yes Mr book yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Bradley yes resolution no number 2024-the Board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting variant for proposed sun room addition located at two Plymouth Court block 4703 Lot 36 Motion in second please I'll move it I'll second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Bradley yes you have two more resolutions uh resolution number granting variant for a proposed 24 by 24 uh detached garage at 1112 Larson road block 1203 lot 45 eligible to vote are Mr book Mr Hurley Mr Hudak Mr well Mr hudak's not here sorry Mr saffer Smith Miss Parnes and Miss Bradley move to approve second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Bradley yes then we have resolution number 2024-the shed at 70 Forest Drive block 6106 lot 7 eligible eligible to vote uh are Mr book Miss frit Mr Hurley Mr Safford Smith and Miss Parnes I'll make a motion to approve roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss frit yes Mr book yes Miss Parnes yes that concludes the resolutions for this evening Madam chair thank you do we have any minutes this evening no okay sorry um we move on to payment of the vouchers I have a voucher from the township of Jackson for the recording secretary for this evening for $175 I need a motion and a second to pay the voucher please motion to pay the vouchers second do we have any announcements this evening Mr Murphy yeah roll like what sorry about that roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss frit yes Mr book yes Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss Bradley yes now do we have any announcements this evening Mr Murphy yes we do Madam chair we have two announcements this evening uh application number four uh Israel burn bound that's use variant 3490 in relation to block 14001 lot 9 that application is being carried to the May 1st 2024 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment no additional notice will be required and the applicant is wave time if applicable um and then we have um application number six Rosen Bloom that's variance 3464 uh that is block 13301 Lot 19 that application is being carried to the April 17th 2024 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment no additional notice will be required the applicant has wave time thank you um we need to swear in the professionals good evening gentlemen thank you for raising your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes yes thank you if you would each please your names and your positions with the board Evan Hill Board engineer Ernie Peters board planner Jeffrey Pororo zoning officer thank you thereis Warren oh I said there's more like more who we're even Poli tonight huh um no executive session this evening correct that's correct and no matters for discussion also correct all right we're going to move on to applicant number one Edward and Karina Hernandez block 11803 lot 5 variant 3496 good evening good evening are you both going to be speaking this evening my wife would speak smart man if you would please raise your right hand I'll swear you both in just in case people solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes if you would each please State you can put your hands down if you would each please state your name uh spell your last name and uh provide your address and your affiliation to this application sure Karina Hernandez h r n a nde z 20 Arrowhead Circle owners Edward Hernandez h r n n DZ 20 Arrowhead Circle owner thank you very much Madam chair Mr Mrs Hernandez why don't you tell us what you're trying to do for your variance we are currently seeking a variance the filter was placed at the 10 feet yard I mean 10 feet line instead of 20 from the property line so it's already installed yes okay just do me one favor if you could pick the microphone up the Acoustics can hear terrible that way we can hear you clearly thank you Evan you have any comments for it uh so I'm I'm assuming you received a permit for the pool and it showed originally that the uh filter and pump assembly was going to be located 20 feet away however your contractor installed it 10 feet away and at some point when you when you submitted your final as built plan that's when it was observed to not be installed correctly do I have that correct okay if you can describe to the board uh what the area around the the pool filter currently consist of do you have any Shrubbery or trees uh to block the view of it between you and your neighbor that well we we put up a fence um that that blocks it from our neighbor to the right um there are some trees that block that us between the neighbors and our house um and there are some Shrubbery yes in that area and the fence is a solid fence there's a yes one is a solid fence to Midway and the others 10 fence okay so just just for the board just to be clear we're not here because of the pool we're only here specifically for the pool filter which was installed in the in the in the incorrect spot any questions for the applicant to the chair Mr book uh just to clarify in order to correct it you'd have to dig up the pump dig up all of the piping rehire a contractor go through an enormous expense and waste in order to correct that which was unfortunately done incorrectly not because of anything you did but because of something your contractor did correct correct that would be the the curved line what is that curved line they decoration their rocks rocks decoration oh that's what that is okay thank you I have a question um was it installed at this location because the original placement of it was Impractical or like is it is it possible to have been installed at the 20 foot setback I guess guess it could have been done that way uh we were trusting that the contractors knew what they were doing when they took the measurements and located we did explain to them we were going to be putting up a fence but according to them the way they had measured it should have been enough distance thank you no no it was their idea to go for the variance it was as for their suggestion we applied for the variance any additional questions any other information either of you would like to add before I open it to the public it's been an experience say the least all right we're going to open this up to the public anybody wishing to come forward to make comment on this application please do so seeing no one come forward I'm going to close public session hold on one second okay board it's up to us anyone like to make a motion Mr Hurley can you turn your mic on oh okay I didn't hear me now it's working thank you hi Madame chair lady let me repeat for purposes discussion I'll make a motion that the application be approved second discussion any questions or comments i' just like to ask one question out about the uh pool is the shed in the back uh meet the town code and setbacks while here I we bought the house with the shed where it is so I would assume okay is there would that also need uh 20 foot setbacks yes it would and it doesn't Evan can you well the setback for a shed in that zone would be 15 feet from both property lines okay and I don't believe the the variants for the fence included the shed so uh based on the survey it appears that the shed is 8T away from the sidey yard and approximately 8T away from the rear as well so if the board would be so inclined if they wanted to consider granting a variance for an existing shed that was or a pre-existing shed um you could in incorporate that into this into your motion and that way we don't have to see these people back again for the shed later do you know how large the shed is approximately it's like 10 10 by uh 12 perfect thank you through the chair is there electricity in the shed no thank you any additional questions or comments Mr Hurley given that information do you want to amend your motion [Music] or all right Mr Hurley's amended his motion to include the shed the the existing shed that's on the property uh do we have a second second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss frch yes Mr bck yes Miss parnaz yes Mr he yes Miss Bradley yes thank you have a good [Music] night I one two three you're confusing me tonight sorry we're going to move on to application number two Cardin Alle and Jackson Crossing 2 Adventure Crossing amended final site plan 776-6300 one Lot 23 and four good evening Madam chair members of board salvator alfery clear giobi alfery and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant um this is amended site plan approval for the Adventure Crossing project uh towards the rear of phase one there are athletic fields that were constru Ed and there was a storage um building that was built the applicant is seeking to convert the use of that storage Maintenance building I should say into a sports uh Barn which we'll discuss in a moment we'll give you a little more detail no site improvements are changing are are being are changing nothing's changing at all except the use of that structure from the maintenance building to a recreation um building uh which is a permitted use in the zone Ian bordon is our planner and only Witness [Music] thank you Mr bordon do you Solly swear or affirm that testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth I do thank you very much if you please state your name provid your affiliation and credentials Ian bordon presentative professional Design Services located on Airport Road in Lakewood New Jersey I'm a professional planner licens in state New Jersey graduated Ruckers University with Bor degree 40 two years ago holy cow I've testified in front of this and many other boards a couple years and Mr bordon you you um have been personally involved in the development of the approvals and design of this project since Inception is that correct I just just a moment oh I'm sorry I saw you nodding that was I'm sorry um and can you describe for the board I summarize what we're proposing but you a little more detail describe what the proposed uses of that Maintenance building absolutely yes we're seeking a final site plan approval as Mr alfair noted uh phase one is shown in exhibit a A1 that's on the on the uh screen uh Venture Crossing is as the board members I'm sure aware is a mixed use project proposed in the highway commercial mixed you Zone located on the south side of Mammoth Road immediately west of Route 195 and we're dealing with phase one phase one is outlined on on the a A1 U that has a mixture of fast food restaurants the 7-Eleven airome recreational building that have been completed other buildings incomplete in the rear of the site are uh four athletic fields our Sports Recreation uh facility and that has been completed for quite some time on the far left or the west of phase one as as s mentioned towards the back is an existing 3,000 square foot uh what we called a maintenance building uh when we obtain the original approvals it's a masonry building uh and it has been completed for quite some time the the fields are all artificial turf uh so the the thought of needing equipment to maintain the site really hasn't come true because there's no grass to cut there's no uh so and there's been a need the operator of the sports fields which primarily does softball baseball and some soccer has need for individual coaching indoors so we are proposing to Simply change the use of that building into an indoor recreational use uh that use is permitted in the HMU Zone under 24450 7A 17 uh the these uh there's an architectural plan is a a two a four plan that was submitted basically the maintenance building will be will have a artificial turf floor and then there's a portable batting cage being installed inside uh the intention is this we call a Sports Barn we weren't quite sure what to call it uh but it's intended for use for private instructors only with students it's not open for public use there's no public assembly use typically there would be three persons at a maximum in there um given the relatively small size of the building with with instructors uh we are not proposing to do any changes modifications or additions to the building nor the uh the site improvements uh just to go over a couple of comments that were requested in a planning review we're not proposing to change any signage um there's no change to the parking uh to the Ada U there is parking for the uh Sports fields to the uh North North is to the top of the screen to the north that that same parking would be used as as it is used for all four of the uh of the fields uh the hours of operation of the uh of the uh Sports Barn would be the same as those hours of operation already approved for Adventure Crossing there's there's no additional employees requ uh uh created these would simply be be coaches that are that are would be present at the site anyway to coach uh their teams just doing some individual instruction uh there's no change to any of the trash recycling Solid Waste U nor any water and sewer there's absolutely no change to the site other than just putting down the artificial turf floor the portable batting cage and and having some instruction inside that concludes the testimony mam chair any questions it's not it's not often we come to the zoning board with no variant Mr Earley Mr bordon the the building that is going to be changed as far as the use is concerned the build the structure is not being changed what is it currently used for not wasn't used being used for anything so it's empty yes okay thank you yeah just a quick question you mentioned that there's no need for the maintenance building because sorry I just I missed that well the the fields are artificial turf you know the the concept was that we need to cut the grass uh maintain um Landscaping but the grass the grass is artificial the Landscaping is a crust Stone there's just no and and if anybody were to maintained the site they' bring their own equipment in you know they wouldn't ex it wouldn't be owned and maintained at the facility is this maintenance Barn specifically for these fields or is for the whole area not just it's for these fields it's for this tenant there are other maintenance areas that's correct there's no use there's no expansion of the use because we're simply taking what will be outdoor instruction because they do outdoor instruction all the time but when it's inclement weather cold they can do it indoors thank you madam chair lady yes Mr Harley Mr bordon um I noticed that the operator is ruthless softball and when I first read that of course I understand it's spelled Ru but I had to look it up and quite frankly I was impressed that it it appears that they train kids for Collegiate softball things of that nature so it really produces a benefit to this town I think I agree but they ought to changed the name Ruth we have no control over that i' I've been out there when they've been playing and training I got to tell you these typically was seemen to be high school age girls it is really impressive they are really good any additional questions or comments Mr aluy any closing comments we have public yes um I'm going to open this to the public anyone wishing to come forward and make comment on this application please do so seeing no one come forward I'm going to go ahead and close uh public session and no closing comment simple enough thank you okay boarded up like to make a motion move to approve the application second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr staffer Smith yes Miss FR yes Mr book yes Miss parz yes Mr Hyman yes Miss Bradley yes thank thank [Music] you okay we are going to move forward to application number three and forgive me if I butcher the name I apologize congregation Kev Sima preliminary and final site plan 907 with use Varian 3480 block 1 19703 Lots one and two m Jenny okay thank you good evening for the record I'm Donna Jennings from the law firm of Wen Goldman and Spitzer as the board is aware we are here this evening seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval use variances and bulk variances construct an approximately 11,000 ft mikah with a caretaker's apartment and an approximately 3200 squ foot EMS building with related s improvements on property located at the intersection of Grand Boulevard and East Veterans Highway identified as block 1 19703 Lots one and two currently a place of worship is under construction on adjacent lot two said place of worship ship obained major site plan approval by planning board resolution 2018-05 if the requested approval is granted the applicant intends on consolidating the two lots the record will demonstrate that the site can accommodate both the mikah with the caretaker's apartment and the EMS building uses despite said uses not being permitted in the zone first the record will demonstrate that mikas and the EMS building are inherently beneficial uses thus satisfying the positive criteria as a matter of law mikas are tantamount to the Orthodox Jewish faith and allow women to cleanse themselves in accordance with long-standing Traditions spanning thousands of years the EMS building will allow Greater Community Access to emergency service and is needed for members of the Orthodox Community who are culturally sensitive in addition with respect to the negative criteria the board should be reminded that pursuant to seea a balancing framework is conducted to determine whether the uses detrimental effect is substantial first the board should identify the public interest at stake two the board will identify the detrimental effect of any that will ensue if the variance is granted three the board is permitted to reduce the detrimental effect by imposing reasonable conditions and four the board will weigh the positive and the negative criteria and determine whether on balance the grant of the variance would cause a substantial detriment to the public good importantly not every detrimental effect will support the denial of a use variant it is only where said detrimental effect is substantial that a denial is appropriate the record will demonstrate that no such substantial detriment is present here and the applicant will satisfy the pro war prong standard in the event the board finds that the proposed uses are not inherently beneficial the record would show that the uses satisfi the medich framework and promote the general welfare because they are particularly suited for the proposed location the record will show that the site is uniquely suited for the mikah and the EMS building regarding the mikah this facility would be located directly adjacent to the community in the residential area on Grand Boulevard Royal Grove Drive and Imperial Place Central in addition the women of the Orthodox Jewish Community who live in the surrounding areas will easily be able to walk to the facilities on Fridays and Saturdays when they are not permitted to drive as there's a vast array of sidewalks and crosswalks that lead to the site the area is particularly suitable for the EMS building because the building is being donated for General use within the community and will provide further emergency services to the local community Additionally the record will show that several purposes of the ml will be Advanced including promoting the public health safety morals and general welfare two promoting the establishment of appropriate population densities and three promoting a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangement here the uses are highly beneficial to the surrounding Community similar uses such as places of worships and other public buildings of a governmental or cultural nature are permitted in the zone and the proposed structures will not negatively impact the surrounding areas finally as to the negative criteria the record will demonstrate that the proposal will not have a negative impact on the master plan and Zone plan the bulk variance is related to the location of the accessory dumpster in the front yard and a potential design waiver for the minimum number of parking spaces will be addressed by the applicants professionals consultants in support of the application the applicant will call the following Witnesses uh one yidi Schumer who is sitting to my left is an observations fact witness for the proposed mikah with the caretaker's apartment Eli estron in his capacity as an operation fact witness for the proposed EMS building grah McFarland will testify both in his capacity as a professional engineer and a professional planner Richard tarski in his capacity as a professional architect and Scott Kennel as a professional traffic consultant as a matter of recordkeeping the applicants receipt of the following review letters one the township Tree Specialist report from Sharice speo of CME Associates dated February 28th 2024 the planning report dated February 29th 2024 and the engineering report dated March 3rd 2024 so with that I'd like to have my first witness sworn in and we're going to just give you a little bit of background about the need for the mikah at this particular location thank you absolutely good evening if you would please raise your right hand do you affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you very much if You' please state your name spell your last and provide your affiliation to this application my name is yeti schw s c w m m e r um I'm the board member representing the congregation's application am I did I complete all the information requested that was very good thank you was a list of things okay and so uh yidi I know that you wanted to start with a uh opening statement just to describing the Mika operations and I have a couple of general questions I wanted to ask you to make sure that the board has a fing understanding of how the mikah actually is going to work if approved sure hi my name is yeti schmer I reside with my husband as six children at 12 night drive first I'd like to thank all of the board members tonight who took the time to review and understand our application I hope we can get all of your support tonight I'd like to acknowledge the presence of our Rabbi Rabbi simple shy that is here uh with us tonight in support of the congregation's application I'm here today as a resident as well as a board member repres representing our congregation and the extending surrounding communities I'd like to share some thoughts on why I believe this project is important and necessary Aika is the most sacred and fundamental institution in Judaism it is a sacred ritual bath using the Jewish faith for Spiritual purification it serves as a place of sancity and renewal where individuals can cleanse themselves both physically and spiritually the the construction of a mikah is more important and takes priority over a synagogue whereas prayer can be done anywhere the mikah must be built following extreme ex intricate and detailed set of laws incorporating bib biblical Traditions passed down for unchanged for thousands of years Mika is the Bedrock of the Jewish Home it contains a sacred pure and holy rain Waters where women enter each month only after detailed physical and spiritual preparation does one dip into the Mikvah Jewish law mandates that a woman use a mikah at a specific time of day after sunset on a specific day of the week corresponding to her personal monthly cycle on Friday nights and Jewish holidays when cars are not used women will walk to and from the mkah this necessitates the mkah to be in close proximity and walking distance to the home where women can reach it quickly and safely hence the mikah will typically be built in the heart of a residential Zone both for privacy convenience and safety currently traveling to neighboring towns are necessary because none are within close proximity appointments are sometimes given for visits past midnight by having a McMan our neighborhood we'll be providing a vital resource for members of the Jewish Community who seek to observe this important tradition this application is beneficial to our full community and neighborhood where over 100 families will have access to the facility please consider this application for approval I hope you understand how important it is to us and vote Yes to approve this tonight good thank you Yi now there were a few questions in the review letters with respect to specific uh details that the Board needs to know so for instance if you could for the record State the hours of operation hours of operation typically starts 1 hour after Sundown typically not before 5:30 and so with the fluctuation in the seasons the time is not 5 o'clock it could be 9 o' if that's when the sun sets Okay and typically um you know how are somebody wants to make an appointment how is it they just show up at the mcfo do they have to come by appointment no you can call in you call in and you get your appointments left okay and how well long is the appointment um about an hour hour and a half okay and how will women generally get to the site for those living closer walking distance they can walk or otherwise it's a drive over except that they can't drive on Friday at sundown to Sunday that is right okay and how many employees and volunteers are going to be working at this facility there is a caretaker there is an attendance and a receptionist okay and the caretaker is the person who we have left an apartment above the mikah for that is right and is that something that's typical for the mikah for the caretaker to reside there that is typical okay and what are the responsibilities of the caretaker so the caretaker takes care of the overall cleaning making sure that the place is clean and taken care of and then between slots appointments the rooms get cleaned out again so that's to the caretaker the receptionist will take the appointments excuse me you're just drifting a little bit away from the mic is this better better thank you all righty the receptionist will'll take the appointments as they come in and the attendant will take you from your room to the mea individually thank you that's all the direct questions I have for Yeti I just had a quick question followup question is this seven uh seven days a week that this would be operational thank you I didn't catch that is This MC for only used uh by members of the congregation col C it's open to all anyone in the neighborhood okay and who owns the mck for itself I know it's on the property of the congregation does the congregation own it or is it a separate entity I don't know who owns it well is Michael I okay she doesn't know she's going to find out from her husband okay I just want to know whether they lease the property whether they pay rent on the property and if they're doing so could it be considered a commercial proper so uh that would be good to answer we'll get that answer for you no problem okay thank you and the with the caretaker uh is the car it's a two bedro apartment uh is it the caretaker and the caretaker family that was there that is correct I'm sorry that is correct caraker and their family would be residing in that apartment is there a limited how many people can occupy the apartment well that's really a building code issue so you have to follow the building code um so yeah you couldn't have more than whatever the building code permits in a two-bedroom apartment the only time I've heard of this before funeral homes have have a similar Apartments so this is the first time I've heard it in another building thank you also in regard to ownership it's a congregation that owns it ownership of the property as you had asked I'm sorry I didn't you had asked a question question before this one who owns the property drin the owner of the property is the congregation oh okay through the chair just please forgive my ignorance but I'm trying to take a look at this format and what is a kaya waiting room and Kaya sweet aala is the Hebrew word for a bride the Bri the very first time where she goes to the mecah is the night before her wedding so in order to give her a beautiful experience there is a very beautiful room prepared just for her okay thank you C chair one more question uh how is the water uh collected and they see you have sisters does it come from the roof is it brought in is it how do you how do you get it there it typically is rainwater how actually it comes in I'm not sure how that's set up yeah we have a site engineer and an architect and I'm sure they'll be able to answer those questions Madam chair lady yes Mr Hurley just to a followup of Mr Hop's question you answered your answer was that the congregation owns the property who's going to operate the Mikvah is that going to be privately contracted out I can get that answer for you okay now I went to look at the property the house of worship is currently under the construction my understanding is that based on the resolution that approved it that there were also Mikvah uh associated with the house of worship are they going to continue my understanding is those Mikvah were not built because I I read the same resolution you read and I was advised that those mikas were not built they were not so they're not being they not being used right now they don't have a mikah on the site okay thank you also to answer your question the congregation will operate the Mikvah any additional questions I'm sorry thank you madam chair um Miss Jennings can the witness explain the connection of the caretaker to the Mikvah building is the person who lives in the caretaker's unit a worker at the mikah correct they they take care of the mikah so most of the appointments are after Sunset and they're there and when the woman finishes one of the rooms they're there to clean the room up they're make sure that the bath area is clean so they're constantly there at night during the appointments I'm trying to connect at the two-bedroom caretaker unit is specific to the mikah it's not for rent to someone to come in and no they are associated with the mikah they are the caretaker thank you any other questions or comment for this witness M Jennings like to call your next witness yeah thank you comment or if she has any other comments no I think she's finished okay thank you yetik okay if I could bring up Eline now and he's going to describe the EMS facility how that works and why the community felt was necessary to have something here good evening if you would please raise your right hand do you affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you very much if you please state your name spell your last and provide your affiliation to this application Ellie M eser zon spelled e s r ZN and I'm currently the CEO of hatala of Central Jersey I'm a volunteer paramedic as well for atsala of Central Jersey and I'm employed by Robert Wood Johnson as a paramedic thank you okay and he's being offered as a fact witness just to describe how the EMS building works so if you could just describe generally the operations and if you maybe might dabble in why this particular site was chosen uh for the EMS building sure so the way we we get dispatched to calls is anyone that calls us our emergency number we have two of our our volunteers wherever they may be they get into their private Vehicles they head over to an ambulance they get onto the ambulance and respond to the call um the reason as generally the way we get dispatched the reason this site is very appropriate for for a ambulance garage is because we have a concentration of both residents that use our services as well as volunteers that respond to these calls also recently the same Community uh uh donated a brand new ambulance to hatol of Central Jersey and it's parked outside in the elements which is not um as good for the end ambulance and for the response for a number of reasons so having a building and in this specific spot would be very very helpful and who essentially is responsible for dispatch how does that work so atel of Central Jersey covers numerous towns in the county uh we have multiple dispatch centers in uh garages in Lakewood we have dispatchers that dispatch from home so depending on who is on shift where the dispatched from the emergency emergency calls get forwarded to their lines and they put out they dispatch the call and how many uh volunteers are in and around the area of the site we currently have approximately 40 volunteers EMTs and paramedics in Jackson okay and if a call was uh to be received how many would you anticipate would show up at the site generally speaking it would be two the two two EMTs that show up um hopefully when the gar if and when the garage is built there'll be two vehicles and EMT ambulance and a paramedic vehicle so at maximum it would be four if it's a very high Acuity call and paramedics get dispatched okay and if you could also describe um on the floor plan there's an Upstairs Lounge that's proposed what is that for is that just opened up generally to the public or no it's not open to the public it's open to our volunteers if they come back from a c they want to sit down uh maybe restock their equipment or just catch a breath after coming back from an emergency or if they pick up a a night shift they stay up during the night hours to be ready and available for calls but we don't anticipate it big amount of activity there and what about if you're not from the Orthodox Community is would you also respond to an emergency for the non-orthodox unequivocally we've been responding in Jackson for a number of years we've responded to all types of Co absolutely thank you that's all the direct questions I have for this witness chair yes first thank you for your service you're welcome um I have some concerns about the area particular driving from the West to the east as you approach the intersection of grand and East Veterans Highway there's a traffic light there and as you come up on that traffic light from a Westerly Direction it is basically you're blind to it till you're on top of it will your EMS station have control of that traffic light in other words if you're responding to a call and you're about to depart from your station will you be able to set that from green to Yellow to Red I'm not aware of that being planned for now okay might be maybe more appropriate for the traffic engineer e either way as long as somebody can address the fact that you're going to have people responding to that facility usually with blue lights at somewhat of a anticipated rate of speed to get there to provide help to someone that intersection coming from west to east is treacherous there should at least for obvious reasons be a control on the western side that tells you that the light has changed it's done in other areas and for the safety of the people responding from that station they should have control of that light used to be at the corner of river and James when that Firehouse had a call they would be able to trigger the light it saves lives thank you we'll definitely try to address that and look into that any other questions or comments for this witness I need I need some clarification on on the actual operation itself is how many ambulances will you have there one ambulance that's one transport capable ambulance and one paramedic fly car okay that leads my leads me to my next question uh are the services to be provided for purposes of Transport like I need someone to take me to a hospital or I'm having a heart attack can some some medical is there medical assistance also associated with your service so we're an EMS so we we respond just about only to emergency calls we're not pre-planned transports we're not a transport but we are transport capable so we show up to that said heart attack for example our paramedics rmts will provide all the Care within State protocols on the emtm paramedical level and then transport that patient to the closest cardiac center okay um are there any other EMS facilities in the area let's say within a couple of miles does at solo have any EMS facilities I'm sorry is the question if H solo of Central Jersey has any facilities or in general in general um I personally live in Lakewood so I can't answer the question so you don't you don't know whether or not you can't answer I I assume this being a town that it would have a you know it would have a garage for EMS somewhere well I'm I'm just trying to get into my head for purposes of this application what the need is here I mean is there an EMS station you know a th000 feet away that maybe don't need need one here is there one not within 10 miles maybe you do need one here that was my question so do you know if there are any in the area so to answer the question I think if it's okay Mr Hurley I'd like to take a step back and talk about H Sol as an organization a hatala internationally is an organization that was formed 40 50 years ago it's it's an organization that has chapters almost in any local where Orthodox Jews live I'm not challenging I'm not challenging that at all I'm just I'm G to get to the answer I'm just trying to find out if there is other users in the area and what's the need absolutely and a couple of decades ago already every child every Orthodox Jewish person grows up knowing the first number they know maybe the second after their home number is hola's emergency number so everybody that moved to New Jersey to the county to Jackson everybody has Decades of HSA uh hatsa on their in their favor it's on their phone um hatsa in addition to being um at The Cutting Edge of Emergency Services we constantly and rigorously train there is a cultural sensitivity that although as mentioned we happily and eagerly provide service to anyone that needs us but specifically the Orthodox Jewish Community it's a necessity it's like if you move to a an a neighborhood you need a synagogue you need a Mikvah you need at it's one of the first bits of infrastructure that comes along with any move and the reason for that is is because we provide EMS we understand the the cultural nuances um maybe specific fears concerns how to get through to a frantic patient how to calm them down so that that is mainly the reason for why this is needed well that was my question my question was are there any services in the area that you know you you supplement that service or you duplicate that service that's my concern that that's the question so we work very closely with all the local agencies um but like I like I explained there is a certain uh specific sensitivity that we provide a specific cultural Sensitivity I would say that we provide when responding that the Orthodox Community has come to need it's a matter of necessity thank you through the chair if I may um are there any other ambulance garages in Jackson Holo of Central Jersey yes no not yet this would be the first one yes sir are there any other ambulances parked in certain areas in Jack AC because every every once in a while I I do see them parked at certain homes almost 24 hours a day are they part of your call service yes sir we we have actually three ambulances parked in Jackson now okay when uh at solar is is called does the Jackson EMS are they alerted that there's a call going out in case your ambulance is busy with somebody else and you have an emergency where you just need somebody almost immediately would you call in Jackson so we definitely have mutual Aid bilaterally with all the local municipalities we work with so if that were to be in need that we would alert Jackson EMS most definitely and and I hope the community is alerted that this is the reason why different ambulance C showed up at the door yes okay Mr pet ERS thank you Miss Jennings um I wanted to ask your witness about a little more of the the detail of the building you you would indicated there's 1600 foot on the first floor they're going to park two vehicles in it and then 1600 foot is off upstairs just sort of a an area for use afterwards I just assume if if you master plan the building now because statement of operation doesn't say what's going on in the building The Architects plan doesn't say what's going on in the building if if they need living quarters showers bathrooms um it's an emergency services building the folks anyone who's familiar with a good oldfashioned first aid squad or fire fire department building would think that those things might go in there yet they seem to be missing both from the statement of operations and The Architects plans if they're not proposed fine but I also don't want your client sort of to paint themselves in a in a corner and then get stuck having to go through this wonderful process of coming back here to tell us they need it and what amounts to an inherently beneficial use so if they have a plan for it just just see if we should include it now as opposed to later yeah so very good question and we talked about that as we prepared for the hearing and there is a modified exhibit A5 that the architect will go through um most of the upstairs is really just for storage of the you know putting back Medical supplies that are used but I said you have all the space and there's a bathroom are you going to use it for anything else there's now an exhibit that will show you that have it's really like a lounge but there's not it's it's not to be somebody living there overnight it's just for them to they had a three o'clock call maybe to decompress for a little bit before they get in their car and drive home but the architect will go through that so that was a good question and we did look at that that was all Madam chair thank you through the chair yes Mr B would you explain in Greater detail just so that I the board and others that are interested can understand the licensing and training requirements I'm unfamiliar with whether or not those EMTs or paramedics or hatela are trained differently or or they all required to attain a certain level and pass certain tests as are demanded by the county or the state of New Jersey can you just spread those details upon the records so that we are assured of the level of training and expertise of your emps and paramedics sure thank you for the question so the to be an EMT in the state of New Jersey there is a you have to be a New Jersey certified EMT it's a do office of EMS it's a very sort of streamlined process and there's very welldefined criteria within which one would need to be certified and licensed and that CER certification needs to be renewed every two years with a very clearly prescribed method of recertification that's on the EMT level on the paramedic level New Jersey um also has a standard and then there is a national organization called the National Registry of paramedics of EMTs and of paramedics um with which New Jersey has a reciprocity agreement um all of of our paramedics are and EMTs are fully licensed by the state many are licensed by National Registry although it's an additional license it's not a requirement in the state many have that as well many of them are also licensed in the state of New York and our training we have a as I mentioned earlier we have a rigorous schedule of training so by way of example in order to recertify once every two years an EMT needs to have 48 hours of continuous educational hours cus we provide probably close to a 100 at least um our paramedics and this is the way it works in the state you can't you don't you can't just run your own Paramedic program it needs to be licensed through a hospital the town of Jackson the town of Lakewood much of the county um is contracted with Robert Wood Johnson in Barnabas Health at Sol's Paramedic program works through Barnabas Health every one of our paramedics are either pum Medics working on the trucks often time covering Jackson part- timr and even full-timers so we have not only do we have um State approvals National Registry approvals but we actually work for the system through the hospitals we have extensive experience so the level of care is definitely on par with all other agencies than mam chair lady yes Mr Hurley just out of curiosity is there any relationship between the EMS operation and the house of of worship or the Mikvah any relationship at all contractual uh privity any anything at all is there a relationship not that I'm aware of so will you will the EMS operation will be renting the facility the land the facil the facility the use of the facility is going to be donated to us by the community the same community that that recently donated the ambulance but the space where you're going to locate on this property are you paying rent for that no being completely donated so it's just being donated for your use correct okay thank you oh by the way one last question if I can with reference to this facility any anticipation of having fundraisers parties um any kind of gatherings there that are not related to emergency service non-anticipated at this point will there ever be it's a 1600 square foot building other words if if I were if I were to vote to approve this application and I said to you it would be on a condition that none of those activities are to occur on this property would that be acceptable to you yes ever yes thank you any additional questions for this witness yes through the chair Mr Stafford you currently have a rig stationed west of that facility right now will this new facility replace that that that ambulance that rig will be parked at the in that facility go it'll be housed further east at the new facility yes okay is this facility going to be staffed with a Duty Crew or is it going to be strictly answered to by volunteers that are called or dispatched volunteers volunteers yes they're going to be staffed by volunteers that will come from wherever they are all right so they're not going to be necessarily in the building waiting for calls most likely they will not be for the most part the Upper Floor is going to be a rehab area training area correct a little bit of storage yeah mainly mainly rehab just a just a little bit of a lounge a bathroom and some storage you respond to a motor vehicle action you could be in the middle of a Hazmat incident you got to have wash down facilities is that what we're talking about upstairs we're not talking about a wash down as of now a wash down upstairs but the building will be built according to code and everything that entails no I I meant as far as decontamination procedures for emergency responders that isn't the intention the intention isn't to use the second floor for Decon specifically it's more like emotionally decompressing after coming back from a difficult job I I've seen some of those incidents it it can take a toll thank you and you started Mr Stafford you started by thanking me I want to thank you all for your civic duty appreciate it it's been a long time any additional questions or comments for this Witness Miss Jennings you can move on to your next witness thank you at this time I'd like to call up the site engineer Graham McFarland m small yeah for Grim Grim you want me to swear in I'm ready thank you for raising your right hand do you Solly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if you would please state your name uh provide your affiliation and credentials sure it's Graham McFarland professional engineer professional planner with professional Design Services uh previously testified before this board many many occasions and this board accept your credentials thank you so if you could uh Graham um just confirm for the record that you've had an opportunity to visit the site in the area around the site yes and that your office prepared the site plan that you're going about to discuss yes okay if you could please just describe the site in the surrounding area and the relief that the applicant is seeking sure if we could get A1 up on the uh up on the screen for us so we we have up on the screen is is exhibit A1 an aerial map we prepared for this for this presentation tonight subject property is known as block uh block 19703 Lots one and two it contains five acres in total the site is located in the rg2 zone and it has Frontage on both each Veterans Highway and uh and Grand U and Grand Boulevard you can see on the on the aerial map that uh the previous the Sho that was previous ly approved by by the planning board which is currently under construction uh was approved in 2020 by the uh by by the planning board and again that's that's currently under construction it's actually 2018 um so the real question is you know what how do we get here and why are we here in front of front of the zoning board tonight you did hear some discussion and we'll have more particular discussion later about the about the use varus component and and about the uh about that nature of the application but just to to summarize the permitted uses in the zone uh in this rg2 zone are the same as permitted use in the PV Zone and neither a a Mikvah religious bathing facility nor an EMS building is permitted in the zone uh since further since they do not meet the the definition of an accessory building to the sh they are deemed to be principal uses not permitted in the zone so therefore this application does require the D1 use varant in addition to the site plan approval that is uh that is required the uh the Mikvah by itself does not meet the ordinance definition of a church or a house of worship uh and that's confirmed by Mr Peter's letter by his review letter as well uh in addition we've already had some discussion about the caretaker Department uh that is also proposed in the second floor of the Mikvah and again that is just like the mikah and the EMS building uh a caretaker's apartment is not addressed by local ordinance so therefore variance is committed is is uh required for the caretaker's apartment as well so now we'll we'll talk about the uh the proposal for the application if we could go to uh go to A2 next so a A2 is the uh overall development plan for the application on this plan again you can see the the Shool that is that is under construction with its parking located uh in front of the front of the building with access out to East Veterans Highway uh the shol was just part of you know the lot that's on the on the bottom part of the uh of the sheet here the proposal now is to construct a uh a mikah building a twostory mikah building of about 10,700 square feet that building includes a total of 12 washrooms 11 of them washrooms are what we call standard washrooms and one washroom uh is a kalal or a a bridal Suite which already had some discussion from uh Mrs schwimer on of course there are other support rooms in the caretaker's apartment uh on the second floor uh the caretaker's apartment occupies about a th square feet and contains two bedrooms the EMS building is a is a separate building with a fun of 1600 square feet 3200 square feet gross floor area uh the first floor garage for two ambulances the Second Story a lounge area and storage again you've had some discussion about that uh from from Central JY Central Jersey Hilla uh the application we are proposing a total of 23 parking spaces you can see there are two parking lots that serve the Mikvah there are two parking spaces proposed for the EMS building we did have some testimony that the EMS building may actually need four parking spaces uh that's the first time that we heard that four parking spaces were going to be required so we might have to take a look at adding a couple more parking spaces for the EMS building if that is uh what the EMS uh feels that they that they actually are are going to need uh the local ordinance uh unfortunately does not give any guidance to the parking requirements for the Mikvah or the EMS building so in conjunction with the traffic engineer we have uh researched conventional standards for those and Mr Kenna will provide more specific information to the the parking needs but again what we have is 23 proposed and we believe that 21 are required based upon industry standards again Mr Kenna will provide a little more specific uh testimony about the number of parking spaces it's proposed to to access the site from East Veterans Highway using the driveway that was already approved and constructed as part of the sh the plan also calls for the Improvement of East Veterans Highway with a separate deceleration Lane so essentially a new Lane being added that will make the make the movements easier for anybody who's coming from Grand Boulevard and wanting to get into the sh or in or in into the Mikvah uh this plan has been submitted to the county and the county did approve of that geometry as proposed for that additional deceleration Lane we also have a second access proposed from Grand Boulevard which will provide for full traffic movements and note that we do have an interconnection between the sh property and the you know the Mika EMS property but we decided you we felt it was appropriate to make to make this driveway uh one way so that it would prohibit any cut through traffic from Grand Boulevard to the uh over over to the shore that was something that we wanted to try to uh try to guard against curv and sidewalk are proposed along the entire site front as of both streets uh to advance pedestrian uh circulation the site is Lo located in the rg2 zone in the pine lands uh so a certificate of filing has been uh has been issued our plan for storm water management includes a small scale infiltration Basin with a water quality for Bay located in this portion of the site uh of course that will be designed in that is designed in accordance with current storm water management rules including green infrastructure requirements discharge from the storm water management Basin is Into the Storm waterer management mement system constructed as part of the sh which has some inlets and collection uh up in the front part of the site that conveys water back to the Basin again for the uh for the shol that that was that was approved water and fire service will be provided by the jtm with connection from the water service that is provided for the shol uh Sewer Service would be provided by the J J2 mua if capacity is available uh there are some capacity limitations in this side of town so if there is not capacity in the public SE system we do have room available on site for septic systems to be provided we have room reserved uh up here in the top portion of the plan for the mikah building and then we have an area Reserve down here for the EMS building if sewer capacity is not available uh if you could go to A3 for me next so A3 is exhibit showing the uh showing the landscape plan again you can see both buildings the parking areas the layout and arrangement of the uh site this panel Al also shows the Landscaping that is proposed with the site you can see Street trees along the front edge of of East veteran uh based upon its location uh along two County highways and the location of driveways and intersections we are restricted by How Much landscaping we can have Ong the site Frontage because of site visibility requirement you can see site triangle easement shown throughout the plan at the driveway to Grand Boulevard there are easements at the intersection of grand and East Veterans and also at the main driveway uh for for the sh uh you can see a a buffer proposed on the west side of the property which is 25 feet in width I believe that ordinance your ordinance would require a buffer of 10t in width and Mr Peter's letter pointed out the same uh same same conclusion however to uh reduce any potential negative impact we are proposing a buffer that is 25 feet in width we did receive uh some technical comments from uh from Mr Hill related to the application uh he he authored a letter dated March 3 and of course he summarized the project he had some uh some plan review comments asking us to some notes and clarify some square footage uh we of course will agree to those comments uh he asked about the number of parking spaces I touched on that and again confirmed that Mr kenno will provide a little more detailed analysis of that he also asked about the improvements to East Veterans Highway uh and I I I I testified to that indicating that the plan has been submitted to the county and the county had has approved of the geometry that we have proposed uh and then he had a series of technical comments SU related to storm drainage and some related to some other items which we would agree to comply with so at at this time that summarizes my direct testimony related to the the site engineering of the application thank you with respect to the site engineering that's all the questions I have for Mr mcar and we'll bring him back up for planning later for the chair Mr book I'm not sure side engineering but I guess the uh the septic versus sewer sanitary sewer availability mean I get it if there's sanitary sewer availability but what I can't wrap my head around perhaps you can elaborate if there is no sanatary sewer availability there's a lot of water at least in my inexperienced evaluation of all the all the MC the baths and whatnot is that is that water intended to go into or spill into the septic system and how do you address septic design for that dig well what we've done on uh what we've done on the plan so far is we've reserved areas for the sewage for the septic disposal fields we have not yet completed specific designs for either of the septic systems uh any design would be subject to review and approval of the Ocean County Health Department um and that that's really how the septic system would be accommodated if need be so as you as you currently sit right now based upon the layout you're it would appear to me you're relatively confident that if there was no sanitary sewer you have sufficient area in order to satisfy the Ocean County Board of Health requirement for a septic system to address the water usage and waste water coming out of these systems yes okay through the CH through the chair continuing on the septic system uh the you mentioned that the property is in the pine lands Zone yes it is okay now uh uh previously looking into septic systems in the Pine Land Zone the pine lands has specific septic SYM systems that they require will you be working with them and get their approval also well yes we would be required to submit to the o Ocean County Health Department and pine lines also does take jurisdiction over review and approval of the septic systems so if we have to go that route it is subject to Pine lands review and approval as well fine chair Mr stei would that septic system be subject to an U Gypsy permit for size no I don't at this time I don't believe so so just just to be clear there's sanitary sewer in the development that would be South and West correct there is sanitary sewer in in Grand Boulevard actually the uh the sh has sanitary sewer service but there are capacity limitations in this area uh we did make application for preliminary approval to the MUA and the MUA told us that at that time they don't believe that they have capacity available for this application is it an mua problem or an ocua problem it's well it's an it's an mua problem uh the sewage from this part of town goes goes partly into Tom Township then into the ocua um Interceptor there's an agreement between Jackson to and Tom and Tom River as to how much sewage can flow from Jackson to Toms River in this part of town uh that number is dynamic because it's based upon actual flows not designed flows and I could talk about this for hours if we needed to but again we we' made the application the preliminary uh response from the MUA was they don't think they have sewer capacity available but that could change in the next six months or in the next year as as other developments get built or don't go forward that capacity may be available it may not that's my point of the question is when is the definitive timeline that you will say hey we're going to build this with or without when my client says I'm ready to go let's do what we need to do uh if that's two months from now if that's two years from now whatever the circumstances are at that time would would dictate would the septic systems be designed in such a way they'd be converted the senator know there's pipe sizing would that be laid in a way where gravity would be I'm assuming it would go out to Grand Avenue up to that lift station correct and our our our plans do show the uh the proposed sewerman extension upgr Boulevard to service this application would it be able to be tied into the Sho Service uh no no because we still have the same difficulty with the capacity if capacity were to become available would it be on the lift station side or would it be on the east veter side well we don't we don't have a a lift station on this this project no you have one at at the development on gr and correct but that's got nothing to do with this application um the the plan that we have for utility for sewer servers right now is to again either extend the sewer up Grand Boulevard to this site or any alternative if there was no capacity available we would provide where is the SE service going to where was I'm sorry where is the sh service going to the sh sewer goes into Grand Boulevard and that that goes into service lines in Grand Boulevard is a capacity issue Upstream the capacity issue is Downstream at the connection between Jackson mua and Tom D mua Central plan okay correct but it's not ocua it's not an ocua capacity issue it's a it's a pipe size issue on Whitesville Road it's a no it's not a pipe siiz issue it's and agreement for flows from Jackson to go through the tund MU Mr Hill yes so uh many members of this board actually has have seen some applications on along the east Commodore Road I'm I'm sorry East Veterans Highway commodor uh East Veterans Highway Corridor uh and and we're aware of the uh capacity issues in those instances devel the developers and I believe that's the case here I just like confirmation have have indicated look they'll do everything they can to pursue sanitary SE that is their preference however even if they install the lines they can't discharge anything to them because it's a capacity issue it's not it's not an infrastructure issue in the in in other applications the developers have installed they they they've extended the sewer have installed it to just haven't hooked the buildings up to it is that is that the intention here where the infr the sanitary sewer infrastructure is part of this project and will be installed as part of this project however it just won't utilized until the capacity is available and in the interim the septic systems would be utilized yes we would agree to that right the infrastructure gets in yeah the sanitary sewer infrastructure gets installed as part of this so you don't have to go back later yes okay so thank you for that clarification U regarding the the septic systems Mr McFarland uh acknowledge that uh yes these are in the pine lands the systems will have to meet the Pine Land standards for nitrate delution at property lines which Al which in this case would would incorporate alternative treatment units that meet the Pine Land standards and rs as far as whether or not a tww type application is required that's based that's only if it's a 2,000 gallon per day flow or higher or if there are ejector pumps required for inside the building for the septics um I don't anticipate either of those to be necessary because there's no basement in the mikah building correct correct okay um so I don't expect a tww type application to be required here if there is because of flows they're obligated to go through that process as well the process is uh application would be made if if septic for the septic systems application would be made to the Ocean County Health Department and would review it for compliance with the septic system regulations and then pyland would also uh be involved with the the review process as well U I would just say if if uh that there should be some language specific in any resolution regarding the sanitary sewer uh that the infrastructure will be installed as part of the development even if uh for for either hookup immediately if capacity is available or for hookup in the future um the septic systems would be designed in conformance with all applicable uh D regulations and pands regulations and then uh if it is if they do install the septic systems there are Provisions in those where deed restrictions have to be in in place because of the alternative treatment systems again that's a not necessarily a condition for any resolution compliance but the approvals from those agencies would be a condition of resolution compliance we did have many other comments in the letter about storm water management uh Graham thank you for clarifying that the discharges to the existing system being constructed with it for the Shu there was no information provided as part of this application regarding their stormw management system so it was unclear to me if you if if that's uh I like some additional information provided by our office just demonstrating that there's the pipe sizes are adequately sized to accommodate this development I don't expect that they aren't but I just like that confirmation yes we'll agree with that and you did verify that part of your new storm water management Basin does incorporate infiltration it I'm sorry it does incorporate infiltration well it does not incorporate infiltration in the design because at the time we made this application that was before the new Pineland stormw rules but however since we do not have our letter of no call up from the pands we are now obligated to comply with the current standards which include the GI so now I can take credit for excentra okay so you right so you'll be revising the stormwater r or the stormwater design to be consistent with the pine lands regulations correct correct which would be infiltrating the 10-year 24hour storm correct correct okay U all right now I appr thank you for clarifying that as well there are other storm water management comments of I can like Graham said we could talk about these things all night I don't think that's the best use of your time right now they've agreed to go ahead and comply with all the comments in the letter uh which which satisfies my concerns with the chair yes um I believe from my research I did the mik was originally supposed to be in the Sho which had mua approvals for it in the existing construction uh which is under construction so there was definitely that capacity to hold more than whatever the Sho has so there may very well be the capacity from the MUA to this Mikvah currently is that correct well you're you're correct that the the approval for the sh didn't did include a very small Mikvah uh and those numbers would have been you know rolled into the application for that sewer service but not nearly enough uh that this building needs and un unfortunately that that thought doesn't uh doesn't solve our problem of of gaining sewer capacity thank you do you have an estimate on the the amount of flow from the mikah that would be considered seage per day well we haven't worked through worked through that detail yet do the chair yes uh do you have a lighting package like what kind of lighting I'm wondering will be provided for the yes we do our plans uh do include a lighting plan on on sheet seven and we do have a uh combination of pole mounted lights and some building mounted lights uh the lights are proposed to be 15 feet in height uh for both the pole mounted lights and the building mounted lights and designed in accordance with ordinance requirements will there be um sidewalks on Grand Avenue because I'm assuming most of the members from the Mikvah will be walking to that neighborhood yes we have sidewalk sidewalks proposed along both East Veterans and grants okay I'm just curious why didn't you put the EMS building where the Mikvah is going to be just for easier access out of Grand Avenue for the ambulances instead of exiting onto East Veterans Highway well when we laid out the site we considered a couple different options but we we settled on this Arrangement and I think it's important to have that EMS building as far from that traffic signal as possible if we had that EMS driveway located closer to the traffic signal and again the the traffic engineer can provide some more testimony as of needed but if we had that EMS building closer to the traffic signal it would not be as good a design and this this design I I feel is is more in keeping uh Public Safety and providing visibility and and access the signs that you have um are they only going to be signs on the building or there going to be any signs on the ground uh we don't have any ground uh signs proposed at this time and I don't believe our client feels that any are necessary so there would only be uh minimal building signage thank you any additional questions or comments for this Witness M Jenning thank you this time I like to call up our architect [Music] please good evening good evening if you would please raise your right hand do you Solly swear or affirm that testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you please state your name uh provide your affiliation and credentials sure um Richard tokarski spelled TK a rski I'm the founding principal of tari Melman Architects located in Wall New Jersey I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey uh 1992 graduate of the NGIT School of Architecture uh testified before this board the Jackson planning board surrounding municipalities over the last 24 years Mr tarsky this board accept your credentials thank you thank you uh if you could I why don't we just go straight into the floor plans maybe start with the mikah first just describe that and then we'll go into the EMS building sure um if you could bring up exhibit uh sheet A1 which has the ground floor plan for both the mikva and the EMS building A4 I was going to say we have a lot of a1s we're going to mark this A4 correct Donna yeah that one's marked that's A4 okay you can see it above the A1 all right so I'm G to cross out that A1 marking thank you um so Central to the building are the two mikva pools which are located centrally um there's this the water sistern room is located in between those the washrooms are surrounded on the exter on the perimeter of the building there's an interior Corridor that the U patrons use coming from the washroom down the cdor into the Mikvah bath and back to the rooms there's a front entrance Door in here which comes into a waiting room with a receptionist uh the kala rooms are over here which is the bridal Suite there's also Al a lounge for you people coming in or waiting to be picked up or leaving there's two additional toilet rooms in the corner for staff and there's a stairway that goes up to the second floor both this corner and this corner along with an elevator uh while we're on this sheet of A1 the EMS building this is the ground floor which has the two parking spaces for the ambulance and the paramedic flight truck along with a stairwell that goes up to the second floor are there any questions in regards to the first floor level um if not a question sure is there a laundry room uh yes there's basically a commercial laundry facility which is located on the second floor which is part of the reason for the elevators is bringing up you know towels and laundry up to the second floor will it be uh you know basically some commercial washer dryers up there thank you if we can go to I believe it would be A5 which is architectural sheet 82 on the second floor there's a large storage area which would be used for supplies Linens um there's a boiler room right here with several hot water heaters facilitating you know the wash you know the washing laundry room which is supported over here with several washer dryers there's a mechanical room adjacent to that and the two bedroom apartment is located here bedroom one bedroom two and that's the caretakers facility up on the second floor um moving over to the EMS building we have basically half the second floor is storage for medical supplies coming up the stairs there's a a hallway with some closets um Locker area a bathroom facility and the lounge area with a small kitchenet is there any questions in regards to the second floor I'm sorry I think I misunderstood I don't know if I did I don't think I heard you properly what was the storage being used for um this for the medical supplies for the ambulance uh Band-Aids Gau you know no um from what I understand there's no oxygen tanks there's no medical waste being stored here that all takes care gets taken care of at the hospital level thank you you want to just move on to the elevations sure if we could move on to the next exhibit so this is the elevations of the mikva the west elevation which is the driveway side is along the bottom of the sheet the side faces East Veterans Highway is detail number two detail number three is a South elevation which faces the Sho and the north elevation faces Grand Boulevard um the exterior of the facility it's comprised of Stucco on the upper portion of the building with a water table base of brick um the materials and colors are in the gray tones with white trim and a darker brick along the base there are subdued tones the shape and form and design of the building uh borrows from the sh design but is also kind of a muted version of it so it doesn't take precedence and call attention to itself the sh is really the uh focal point of the campus although the architecture does relate in a kind of toned down version um the architecture for this area is you know it's traditional all it's Civic architecture which you would find for a you know Civic type use just for the record what's the height of the building the mikva building uh to the roof is 26 feet and to the highest parit is 30 feet and there's one building sign proposed uh yes along the East Elevation located right here would be a internal lit acrylic sign for the name of the Mikvah on the exterior for identification purposes for um people may be coming there for the first time would that was the the mikah building okay and then if you could just describe the um elevations of the EMS building that should be exhibit A7 yes so this building along the highway has the two overhead garage doors which are proposed to be glass doors with some transparency to it there is a sign with the um signage same thing it would be an internally lit acrylic face sign uh South elevation which faces the sh is over here detail number two detail number three is the west elevation facing the driveway side and the north elevation facing Grand Boulevard would be that elevation um it mimics the architecture of the mikva which also plays into and is borrowed from the sh same color tone so it creates a uh cohesive campus and just for the record what is the height of the EMS building for the uh EMS building to the roof is 30 feet uh from first floor to second floor is 15 feet so it's at mid level okay that's all the questions I have for the architect any questions for this witness comments oh yeah why don't you give them a I guess the next exhibit would be A8 is just a rendering but this is the beautiful picture you get to see which kind of explains all the colors um shows you the landscaping and the view of what will be visible from the road this is the Mikvah elevation the signage and the EMS building is in the rear with the signage facing in the Main Street any questions or comments for this witness Miss Jennings great we'll move on to our next witness Scott Kennel thank you thank you Scott uh do you somly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you very much if you would please state your name provide your affiliation and credentials yes it's Scott Kennel K NE L with McDon and Ray Associates located at 1431 Lakewood Road manisan uh I'm a principal of McDon and Ray Associates with over 35 years of traffic Transportation Planning experience I've testified in over 2,000 site plan applications and been qualified by New Jersey Superior Court on four land use matters Mr kenel this board accepts your cren thank you have a question for Mr kenel if I may before he accept his credentials sure okay uh I was on on the board previously a few years ago there was a question about your credentials one of the members had asked and you asked by the board member whether your license include a certification as a traffic engineer at the time you said no has that changed that has not changed I'm not a licensed engineer I qualify as a traffic expert okay then I I think it's a up to the chairperson uh uh since you stated now that he should be considered by the board as a knowledgeable person while testifying when testifying about traffic and not as an expert it's up up to you you how you and the attorney want to handle that well you have accepted him in the past on numerous occasions I I believe Mr kennel qualifies as a traffic expert um despite the fact that he's not a licensed engineer okay I just had to ask a question I'm sorry but problem I just wanted to clear it up so there's no problems as we go forward thank you thank you thank you if you could Scott could you just confirm that your office prepared the traffic impact analysis dated May 19th 2023 yes and if you could just describe the report your findings and conclusions Yes again we prepared a report dated May 19 2023 it includes uh a summary of our tasks that are undertaken including the conduct of traffic counts in the area specifically at Veterans Highway and Grand Boulevard those counts were conducted on a Thursday December 1 2022 uh from 4: to 7:00 p.m. and it was determined that the peak hour exists from 4:45 to 545 with approximately 1300 Vehicles processed through the intersection and as far as Grand Boulevard it has a low volume and the volume on Grand Boulevard 2-way was less than 100 vehicles uh we had significant uh discussions with the applicant to determine the traffic projections for this type of use it it is not a uh use that's recognized by The Institute of Transportation Engineers which is the generally the reference manual and estimating traffic so we took into consideration the number of employees the no number of um women that would be on the site at one time based on the facility itself and you heard testimony that the um someone coming on site will be on site for from an hour to an hour and a half we took the worst case situation was as if they were on site for an hour and then there was another woman that would attend and we came with estimates of 34 trips and again what unique about this this uh type of use as was testified there's probably only two months three months most that the the traffic generation will occur during the peak hour for the most part nine months out of the Year traffic activity in traffic generation going to occur outside the PM PE C when the traffic volumes are lower on the adjacent roadways um with that taken into consideration we we reviewed the intersection of veterans Highway in Grand Boulevard with and without the development and to determine that the intersection would operate a level service B in the design year which is 2033 uh which is dictated by Ocean County so there will be no negligible impact from this development on that intersection as far as the site driveway to Grand Boulevard it was determined that it would operate at level service a in other words the delays exiting onto Grand Boulevard would be less than 10 seconds per vehicle which is well within the accepted traffic engineering parameters I I think it's important to note that and as Mr McFarland uh testified the proposed site and the site improvements is going to be a benefit not only to the Mikvah but also to the synagogue and the fact that for the sh where with this interconnection to Grand Boulevard there's another means to exit the sh without utilizing Veterans Highway whether they're going to um a resident or dwelling within Royal Grove which they can use Grand Boulevard to access or there's opportunity to use the traffic signal to uh make left turns onto Veterans Highway rather than the existing driveway so uh that's a benefit not only to the Miko but to the the sh the improvements along the front end to provide a deceleration Lane that would again benefit the sh and a MBA is is is an enhancement to the access that's serving servings the Sho so again a lot of the improvements proposed here and been accepted by the county uh would be an enhancement not only to the current application but to the Shool that was previously approved uh the site plan details 2 three parking spaces two adjacent to the EMS building and based on early testimony it appears that we we'll have to um amend that to Pro provide additional parking uh by the EMS building my sidebar conversation with Mr McFarland there may be an opportunity to shift the building further away from Veterans Highway so we can get more parking in the front of the uh of the building uh that leaves 21 spaces for the Mikvah when you can considered the caretaker if they have say two vehicles and then um the women come into the to the um site uh where it be a maximum of 11 or 12 we have more than inadequate parking and that doesn't even takeen consideration for women who would walk to uh the Mikvah from nearby residents so in my opinion the 21 parking space for the Mikvah uh is more than adequate to support its parking needs and again um going to take a review of the plan and and add additional parking for the EMS so that can be self-supporting in itself uh so my opinion that the layout circulation parking uh has been designed to provide a safe and efficient means uh for traffic on site as well as for traffic to enter and exit the site uh so conclusion uh this is a low traffic generator and for nine months out of the Year there'll be generating traffic outside the PM peak hour and it's my opinion that this site can function safely and efficiently uh with no negative impact on the adjacent roadways um I just wanted to follow up with one question by the board member with respect to that intersection and the light were you here when that question was asked yes I was and are you able to address that the traffic signal has been designed there is a traffic signal ahead sign approximately 500 feet in advance of the intersection with a flashing Beacon I haven't seen that Beacon operational again I don't know the details of how that is tied into the traffic signal I would imagine there's a hardwire connection uh but that's something that uh you know I can do further investigation on as far as the sight lines a lot of the sight lines attributed to the horizontal curve in the vegetation uh to that uh there could be a request by the county to review that to to selectively trim the vegetation to enhance the sight lines or have a conversation with them whether they've had any uh official complaints to enhance the visibility at that location but the driveway for the EMS is located approximately 250 ft from the traffic signal uh based on my observations we have adequate sight lines for someone to exit the EMS uh driveway parking area with over 500t of sight distance to the to the West my concern is more of the traffic going from west to east coming up upon that light and as you pointed out that light ahead sign hasn't worked in years uh I have experience where we have somewhat similar conditions with firehouses where the person leaving the firehouse was able to control the traffic light and if the light ahead sign were to be triggered to say you know light red or traffic signal active ahead I think it would be an enhancement and add to the safety especially when you turn around and you factor in what the total use of that lot's going to be with the sh with prayers going on three times a day be a lot more traffic understood and that and that's something that typically the municipality engineering department would contact Ocean County and discuss that situation and uh get more clarity on what is supposed to be the functionality of that signal ahead sign um that has not come up in our discussions with the county with this application uh whether it's the township engineer or my office you know the commit made I think my concern is intent versus impact you you're here testifying that it's it's low volume I I think that's maybe now but when the sh is open and an EMS building is there I'm not so sure that low volume is going to make that difference if you have somebody responding to the EMS building lights and Sirens right and then somebody trying to leave there coming west to east against a blind curve I think it's imperative that this be part of the study and and an undertaking to provide safe eress for all the people involved again the conversation can be had with Ocean County whether there they feel that a preemption device is warranted as it relates to the this facility uh but again it it's end of the day becomes Ocean County decision um you know conversation can be had for the chair so what I would what I would suggest is what I'm hearing from the board what I've I'm going to make a suggestion to the applicant and if the board doesn't agree with it that's fine U what I would suggest is you have a you have follow-up conversations with the county to see if you can if you can be proactive and initiate these types of items as part of your application you ask them they're not going to dictate they may not necessarily dictate it to you at this point but if if you go report back to them and say the board expressed some concerns they thought these would be some good ide is are you opposed to us doing it it's a different way of phrasing the question and if they're not opposed to it then you're by default agreeing to agreeing to uh incorporate that into your plans the other suggestion I have too was would be to ask them about whether or not there could be any type of similar warning signage uh before the EMS building say north of the EMS building that would that would flash a warning lights you know the little LED lights around the EMS sign but just warning the general public that hey those garage doors are going up and they should be expecting some uh expecting some emergency vehicles exiting at any moment uh just just type of some type of flash flashing warning sign that's activated uh by the EMS crew and but again for the board though this is a County Road the county Road's going to sayy look you we're going to make you do this hey look that's a good idea yeah we'll allow you to do this but ultimately it's their jurisdiction thank thank you for summing up Evan I I just feel that knowing the area knowing the traffic patterns any advanced notice to an abrupt change could only be helpful understood understood and the applicant has no issue with uh making that request to the county and if they say yeah go ahead and do it we'll certainly do it any questions or comments for this applicant I mean for this witness Madam chair lady yes Mr Mr kennel um I wonder if you could help me out here with the total capacity available in space spatial terms for parking taking into consideration the house of worship and the Mikvah and the EMS What's the total number of parking spaces required under the ordinance well again I haven't reviewed that but my understanding is the ordinance doesn't have a specific parking standard for Aika the sh if I recall was approved with 112 parking spaces and on this current site plan application we're uh detailing 20 21 parking spaces adjacent to the mikah plus two spaces uh in front of the EMS building which probably increase the four based on their earlier testimony the two EMS spaces are are for the parking of the ambulances the EMS technicians the technicians right and the vehicles themselves I guess the ambulances would be inside that's correct okay um I still need an opinion from you as to your opinion is that the number of parking spaces that's provided is sufficient so there's no variance required for parking is that correct based on the the statement of operations and the testimony provided earlier the parking proposed adjacent to the Mikvah my opinion is adequate it might be what I'm sorry it is adequate so there's no ordinance provision for the parking not my understanding there is not a specific parking standard for a MBO what I'm trying to clarify is that there are no variances required for parking is that correct or not I'm sorry Mr for the for the chair yeah the uh if going through the resolution of approvals that the from from the planning from the planning board uh the the Shool was required to have have 99 off street parking spaces 112 were provided so they were they appear to be overp parked for the sh for the sh correct so no to answer your question no variances were required for the Sho Park that I knew that I knew my question is the combined the combination of these uses what would the actual number of parking spaces what would it be what would be required for the actual number of parking spaces is there any such regulation there is not there's no parking requirements specifically for an EMS building nor are there any parking space requirements specific to a Mikvah so then you know so in absence of that we then look at what similar uses could be or we we base it on applicant testimony of similar of what they've experienced on on similar uh uses or the same uses at other facilities Mr kennel one of my concerns is your testimony relative to the uh traffic generation you said we use a a worst casee scenario that the stay will be for an hour it could be an hour and a half but the hour if you use that would be the the highest intensity use correct yes if it if there only an hour and again there is a there's a uh time between each appointment because again they have to uh prepare the bath for the next um guest attending so it's my understanding there's there's there could be a 20 30 minute time period between um the usage of a specific B that's my concern if if the the time period in which a user was there was not an hour but it was an hour and a half your your analysis for traffic Generation Um is adequate in that regard but what about parking well that's why everything is by appointment again this is by appointment it's just it's not a walk up so that's that's how that is controlled by the fact that everyone attending the mikah has to have a scheduled appointment but before you testified it could be an hour or an hour and a half so you're going to use an hour my question is what if it's an hour and a half they may be there at a certain time but what if they're there longer well the traffic generation will be less well I know that I'm not concerned about the generation I'm talking about parking well that's where it's coordinated that's why it's by scheduled appointment so that you do not have that situation with overlap and well then why did you say it could be an hour or an hour and a half if there's if there can't be an overlap well it's the the length of stay is from an hour to an hour and a half and I assumed in the traffic Pro projections they would be only an hour in order to maximize and provide a conservative analysis on a traffic generation basis okay when you did the parking analysis then since there's no regulation that we know of apparently when you did a parking analysis how did you come up with the number of spaces is it based on how often people will be there how many people will be there or both it's based on the the number of uh rooms that are available to the women which my understanding is 11 they have a 12 that's for bridal that's not a regular occurrence so basically it's um 11 then you have the caretaker and they could have two vehicles and then two employees the receptionist and then the other uh technician so that provides 11 15 vehicles and then you still have six other spaces so if there is any kind of overlap you have those six spaces which you can accommodate that thank you through the chair yes no you have to step to a microphone please I just want to explain that appointments are made specifically either an hour or hour and a half so it's pretty clear when someone's expected to show up it's not like a come and go if that um explains about Mr Harman so I just wanted to make one point the collar room um is not to be used by night that's my understanding it's generally used when a Bride Comes she comes during the day not by night so that room wouldn't even be used by night at all any additional questions or comments for this Witness M Jennings any additional Witnesses yeah I just want to bring back up Graham McFarland to put in the planning testimony for the record M Mr McFarland's already been sworn and remains under oath Tom's not in the room sleeping again Graham where are you Miss Jennings while we wait for Grant we're going to take a 10-minute break for good idea thank you for what for for I spe spe [Music] e e this thing with I can't imagine not because they have to use you Grand [Music] El [Music] should way [Music] just just you [Music] know [Music] [Music] my kids havei fres water Miss Jennings you can continue thank you this time I'm recalling Graham McFarland we have found him just put on the just put on the record again that Mr mcfar was sworn in previously and remained sworn in uh this time he's going to be testifying with relation to the uh variances that have been requested as a planning expert so if you could you understand what the variances are and if you can go through the record and indicate whether or not you believe in your professional opinion that the applicant has satisfied both the positive and the negative criteria certainly uh we've already heard some discussion as to why application is here before this board tonight uh seeking the use variance approval and also the site plan approval and there's been you know some discussion about about both of those components but but since we've heard the testimony of all of the experts tonight we're going to uh try to pull this all together and and wrap it up so we can uh summarize how this application meets the criteria for Grant of the of the use variants uh as we've discussed this property is located in the rg2 zone uh permitted uses in that zone include a house of worship but uh not a mikah or EMS and and again those uses are not identified in the ordinance at all not permitted in any zones in the in the municipality use variance approval is needed since these two New Uses do not meet local definition of an accessory use as well uh they are to be deemed additional principal uses again keeping us in this the same box that they don't feat they don't fit any other definition outlined in the ordinance there before we have to uh seek the use variance approval we would offer that for this application both of these uses uh are inherently beneficial uses since they both offer value to the community they serve the public good and they promote the general welfare uh satisfaction or or definition of an inherently beneficial use uh subject to uh a definition in in the 2000 I'm sorry updated in in the 2000 Municipal land use law definition an inherently beneficial use is defined as a use which is universally considered a value to the community because it fundamentally serves a public good and promotes the general welfare so as we look at that particular definition we have to ask ourselves why uh why is this application um why is it contain inherently beneficial uses and of course there are two subjects of this application one is one is a mi and two is the uh EMS building as held as as confirmed in a case uh relating to the Mikvah for the house of fire Christian Church vers versus the zoning board uh of adjustment of Clifton in 2005 there was language stating that courts have held that religious activity itself is in furtherance of public morals and the general welfare and that religious Institution s enjoy a highly favored and protected status which severely curtails the permissible extent of governmental regulation in that area uh the Mikvah is used for sacred bathing purposes held very closely in the Jewish religion and an important component of the Jewish religion this uh of course furthers the practice of religion which is deemed to be in public good and promotes the general welfare this this use of the Mikvah is also protected by the constit ution and further protected by Rupa which prohibits any local government uh from unduly constraining the practice of religion the EMS building by itself is analogous to a hospital that provides for emergency services care and health of the general public that is stat statutorily codified in the mlul as inherently beneficial use as outlined in 40 colon 55 d-4 the EMS building here is providing similar Emergency Medical Services although the use is far less intensive than a hospital I believe it should be held in the same regard as a hospital and meets a test of inherently beneficial use the EMS facility provides for a garage for ambulance parking and response to emergencies I think without much argument that use serves the public good advances the general welfare again meets the test of being defined as an inherently beneficial use however although uh a use may be defined and meet the test for inherently beneficial that satisfies a positive criteria component of the application there's also a negative criteria component of the application that must be satisfied which relate which relates to potential impact of any variants that uh that would be granted Paramount to that particular um that particular aspect was a case in 1992 known as a sea case sea vers wall Township and what has come to been referred to as the sea balancing test that's that's four prongs of a test that the board uh board should properly consider uh when evaluating an inherently beneficial use first is to identify the public interest at stake second is for the board to identify the detrimental effect if there is any that will ensue should the variance be granted third is the board May reduce the detrimental effect by imposing reasonable conditions on the use and and very important to note that that term reasonable conditions is specifically identified in the balancing test and fourth the board still should weigh the positive and negative criteria and determine whether on balance the grant of the variance would cause a substantial detriment to the public good and it's not just any detriment but the detriment would have to be substantial uh for this particular application the first prong the public interest I believe it's significant for both of these uses again mikas are amongst most significant religious facilities in the Orthodox Jewish faith they allow the women to cleanse themselves in bathing pools in accordance with long practiced Traditions while not directly a house of worship the Mikvah is associated is associated with religious practice and receives the same protected status as churches and house of worship the religious activity advances the general welfare and furthers public morals regarding the EMS building it provides a significant public benefit by giving greater access to emergency services and medical Medical Care second prong of the test is relatively straightforward as there is no detrimental effect um you've heard much discussion about uh how the site was designed to minimize any negative impact uh how the the how adequate uh parking is provided how buffering is provided Ed how other components of the site design have been pulled together as to minimize any significant impact from the project and our testimon is that that this application would not have any significant negative impact uh the third prong the applicant will agree to any reasonable conditions that are imposed by the board that one is relatively straightforward and the fourth prong on balance the highly beneficial nature of both of these uses greatly outweighs any minimal detrimental impact that could be realized as presented this application satisfies criteria by proposing development in accordance with local ordinances Pine lands requirements and County requirements as applicable adequate parking is provided landscaping and buffering is provided adequate means for Access an emergency vehicle is provided no relief is sought with this application other than the use variants the application will not produce traffic congestion noise GL noise glare air pollution fire hazard or safety hazard or other types of impact that are generally the purview of zoning and land use regulation further the uses also support the 2009 master plan goal of improving overall quality of life in the community and effectively integrating desirable residential communities and service uses the 2023 master plan Amendment goal uh States providing for limited non-residential development and res residential zones while protecting the existing Char character of the neighborhood the EMS building does not substantially impair the purpose of the master plan by satisfying the 2009 Master plan's goal of achieving a livable and desirable community and furthering the 2023 masteral amendment's goal of providing for limited non-residential development in residential zones while protecting the character of neighborhoods uh the house of worship is permitted in the rgt RG two Zone and the EMS building is not disimilar not dissimilar to other public buildings of the government and cultural nature which is also permitted there is um there is some interpretive question I believe as to whether or not any bulk variances are required with this application uh the the neither since neither the Mikvah nor the EMS building are identified as permitted uses in the standard we were uh hardpressed to to confirm what the applicable bulk regulations would be for those particular uses uh this application as presented the uh building setbacks and other bulk variant and other uh dimensional requirements satisfy the underlying Zone criteria uh we we do have one particular item which is the location of the Refuge enclosure which is proposed to be located in a front yard and we are asking for Relief related to that as that would apply frankly in in any Zone uh and that is justified by the uh unique shape of the property and the requirement to provide adequate parking and circulation for the for the uh for the project in conclusion I would I would say that the uh the grant of this variant is warranted since a uses proposed are inherently beneficial and satisfy the positive criteria IA based upon that point negative criteria is satisfied based upon the specific plan that has has been presented here tonight and compliance with the guidance as provided by the Sea balancing test the site design has considered possible negative impacts and is designed to minimize those the plan will be a betterment to the neighborhood and the components of the application that benefit the public and promote General Welfare far outweigh any negative impact in my opinion the board is Justified in granting the variance and approving of the application as presented any questions or comments for this witness Mr Harley Mr McFarland one one question with the EMS do you deem the EMS used to be inherently beneficial and if so uh can you relate to some source of a court that has agreed with you a a statute that agrees with you any kind of writing that agrees with you I could I could not find a uh specific case that addressed an EMS building uh on its own specifically uh however my my opinion is that an EMS building since it provides health care and is certainly uh I think by by any metric it advances the the public welfare it meets the meets the criteria for being defined an inherently beneficial use well that might that might be a basis for a a D1 variant I don't disagree with you there I'm I'm concerned as to whether or not it's deemed a inherently beneficial use which according to Miss Jennings would satisfy the positive criteria by itself now what you've just said it it it I don't disagree that it might have a benefit to the the general welfare of the community but that would go to a a straight D1 where the positive criteria would have to be established do you disagree with that no I don't disagree with that entirely but but again in my my opinion it does satisfy the uh the definition of what inherently beneficial use is just a question on on the EMS um why was it decided that this community needed its own satellite building uh and garage for an EMS uh ambulance and why haven't other areas have have it and can this just lead to multiple sites where we ar going to have EMS stations well I think I think you've heard testimony from from uh representatives of the EMS of of the hatela directly and they discussed the need for this facility uh they discussed proximity to uh the Orthodox Community they also discuss that it's not only limited to response to to orthodox jewi uh uh population they respond to events from any type of personnel if you're dealing with one Community which is orthodox why not have a station in in each senior community where you run the risk of having multiple heart attacks and such and require immediate service I think if I ask some they would probably say they would love to have more facilities probably would but but this is the uh my understanding this is the first one that's being proposed in Jackson uh we got to start somewhere we all know that there's certainly a growing population of of Orthodox Jewish in this community and I believe there's you know no question that there is a need for a facility of this type in this town and probably a need for more well the Senior Communities have been around for 20 plus years and it hasn't gotten to that point and all of a sudden you're doing it with this this community uh just one other point while while you there um you received a letter from the uh prevention Bureau and they had had a few exceptions uh with their approval we do agree to comply with those exceptions that they listed yes we'll agree with their comments okay thank you and while I'm at it uh you had a list of variances I don't think you addressed the setback so maybe you just want to say yes well I I did I did discuss the setbacks and frankly when when we put this plan together um we kind of kind of kind of went back and forth as to how to interpret the uh the building setbacks and and the Zone requirements again since uh there are no standards that relate to the mikah or the EMS building now this application is a little unique because we have the uh the Sho component that was previously previously approved on uh on lot two and now we've added lot one to this application uh we're looking to consolidate the property into into one lot so in uh in applying the the common sense role I would say that the The Zone requirements related to the sh you know really apply to the portion of the site uh for the for the Sho and they are not affected by this application we go to the portion of the site where we're developing the Mikvah and the EMS building we're kind of really hardpressed to find uh how the Zone requirements relate to the mikin EMS building and since I don't believe the ordinance address addresses that that condition um specifically now it it's it's typically held that in that in cases that involve use variants any bulk variances that are deemed necess necessary are subsumed right into the use variant application and are not generally required to be granted separately so again this this case is unique because of its combination with the sh as previously approved uh again for the sh we had a set of Standards to abide by but for this portion of the site adding the mikah and the EMS I I really don't think the ordinance has any specific standards that relate to it so definitely a a tricky uh tricky question through the chair Mr mcfar just to the actual operation of the mikah how many people use it at one time well that was a discussion of a of the operational staff but I believe they you know there's 11 rooms with with The One Bridal Suite so that was discussed with the either one or one and a half hour booking time is there one person in the mcfit of time or is there 11 I believe it's one person to each room at any given time okay is the water in the mikf itself treated at all is it filtered I know a lot of it is uh is collected rain water and there is some filtration process and there is some recycling of that of that water within the facility okay is it backwashed is a filter like a pool filter where it's backwashed I don't know those details that would be subject to the me design and not not part of the site design I'm getting at is would the applicant be uh amenable to installing dry sewer lines if capacity should show up in their design of the waste system so that the discharge from filtration could be considered hazardous waste if it's dious Earth or things along that nature if the water is treated uh you could have you know some disinfection byproduct issues I'm just curious as to at at some point safeguarding long term I don't I don't believe bath water is is considered hazardous waste um but we already agreed that we would we would uh install the sewer line subject to the approval of the mui thank you any additional questions or comments Miss Jennings any additional Witnesses uh that's it thank you okay would you like to make a statement now or after the public after all right we're going to open this to public session anyone wishing to come forward and comment on this application please do so at this time hello everyone uh if you would please raise your right hand oh do you affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth or nothing but the truth yes thank you if you would please state your name spell your last and provide your address my name is Javi Herer h l l r I live at three Queens Court in jackon thank you I would like to take I firstly like to thank you all for taking the time to review our application and to understand the importance of this decision as you are all aware we are hoping for your support in approving the building of our Mikvah over the past few years we have noticed that many of you have questions about the interesting rituals that come along with our Jewish faith and don't always understand the things that we do some things seem extreme extremely strange to many of you because most people don't take the time to ask us questions or explore the different reasons that we have to keep all the laws in our faith we have Traditions that go back thousands of years we have many rabbis and Torah Scholars that help us understand how to keep all of these traditions in a more relatable and understandable way in our generation when it comes specifically to the concept of Mikvah dating back thousands of years the laws of keeping this the right way are very important and play an integral role in our married lives the Mikvah is a transform transformative and rejuvenating experience for women offering a unique opportunity for Spiritual and emotional renewal immersion in the Mika's Waters symbolize a return to a pure and sacred State washing away the stresses and imp I ities of daily life regular Muse has been shown to improve mental and physical well-being enhance marital intimacy and Foster a deeper connection to Jewish tradition and Community moreover the mikah provides a safe and supportive space for women to confront challenges such as infertility and childbirth promoting resilience and Sisterhood by embracing this ancient ritual women can tap into a rich Heritage and cultivate a profound sense of self spirituality and femininity Mikvah keeps our marriages is sacred pure and exciting it gives us opportunity to renew our relationship in a healthy and beautiful way every month we are trying to build something magnificent and inviting so that all of us women can have an amazing space to be able to relax and unwind so that we can keep this law of the Mikvah properly having a building that can accommodate this ritual and have enough space to comfortably host many women in a private setting is extremely beneficial to us all please understand this unique opportunity and take the time to con consider what this means for us so that we can Elevate our lives in addition I would like to take a minute to talk about the importance of having the hsala garage on this property hatala is an amazing organization that will drop everything and run with a response time of under two minutes we all know the phone number by heart from when we're very little I'll never forget when my daughter was in first grade she came on with her weekly spelling test and the extra credit question was what's atala's number and this went on every single week after about five weeks of course she knew by heart I actually had a personal story with my little one about a year ago where we had a scare in the middle of the night one phone call and about two minutes later hatala was there thank God everything ended up okay having them so locally in a large community is extremely beneficial it would mean so much to us all if you can vote Yes on this important application thank you so much for your time have a good night anyone else wishing to come forward good evening if you would please raise your right hand do you affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you if you would just please uh keep your voice up speak into the microphone um and uh provide your name spell your last and your address my name is tamy stroy St r o Li and I live at 39 Imperial Place uh thank you so much for taking the time to hear us out the Mikvah is a very significant part of a Jewish woman's life I'm a wife and a mother of three and this holds the most importance in my life for various aspects uh spiritual renewal religious observance this connects us to all of the women that have come before us and have held this very um important Jewish law and tradition so um special this maintains a very strong connection to our very special Faith this is very important for our personal well-being coming to the Mikvah gives us the time to disconnect from everything that we do as a mother and a and a wife and and it helps us improve our mental and our physical health as well of course as our marital intimacy the mikva offers a unique opportunity for self-reflection and personal growth it gives us a time to connect to God and pray and you know that's our just our private time overall the Mikvah plays a vital role in nurturing the spiritual emotional and social well-being of a Jewish woman while also promoting a strong sense of community and cultural her itage with your vote we can hopefully move forward with this amazing opportunity to have it so locally and near our home thank you so much anyone else wishing to come forward to speak on this application seeing no one else come forward I'm going to go ahead and close public session Miss Jennings your closing statement uh yeah just very quickly because I know there's been a lot of testimony um heard I think that um the mikf itself is absolutely inherently beneficial I believe the EMS is as well but if you have any cause for consideration or reconsideration of that you do always have the Michi test which goes to whether or not the site is particularly suitable it is located near the community to which it serves the ambulance was already bought and donated by the community at a 300 $50,000 fee they're looking a place to garage this vehicle this is the most logical spot to put it in and so I think it advances a purpose of the municipal land use law which is the general welfare public health and safety um so if you find that the EMS is not inherently beneficial I still believe that you can grant the use variants under the medich criteria and uh with that I would just respectfully reest of the board Grant an approval this evening thank you thank you and just for the clarity for board members Mr for your opinion on the inherently beneficial use yeah so I'm not familiar with any particular cases that identify um the EMS use uh or a medical garage as a inherently beneficial use I don't know that that issue has ever been brought before um an appell division or the Supreme Court um if if you're looking for my opinion on the issue uh my opinion on the issue is that an EMS building or medical garage however you want to term term it uh would be considered an inherently beneficial use under the definition that's in the statute uh as Graham testified to an inherently beneficial use means a use which is universally considered a value to the community because it fundamentally serves the public good promotes the general welfare I mean we're talking about a building that houses ambulances which are used for emergency medical treatment um you know and transport to uh um hospitals in in the case of medical emergencies what I think makes this application uh specifically um different is the fact that it it serves a a very specific uh Community uh here in Jackson Township um and certainly that Community uh has a right to um and also needs uh these types of services um I would I would strongly consider uh I would strongly um urge the board to consider the EMS use uh inherently beneficial based upon the definition in the statute um I would I would opine that it would be inherently beneficial uh in my opinion uh under under Municipal land use law um and that would be my guidance on the issue I I feel uh exactly the same about the Mikvah I feel that the mikah is in inherently beneficial use um um you know again that that serves uh a very specific Community here in Jackson Township certainly gen benefits the the public good um and again I I would urge the board to consider the Mika an inherently beneficial use as well given the fact that it's my opinion that these are both inherently beneficial uses that changes the standard uh for review um of of the request for the D1 variances um and as has been stated multiple times on the record um that uh the the applicable test uh to determine if the D1 variances is to be granted is the seek a balancing test and essentially what you're doing is you're weighing um the benefits uh of the applications versus verse uh the the uh potential detriment uh and again Miss Jennings pointed this out and I will do the same uh any detriment identified has to be substantial in nature um so so if if you find um that the benefits of of the uses um outweigh the detriment uh any substantial detriment um and you find that uh there's no impact uh to the um uh no no substantial detriment to the public good no substantial detriment to um The Zone plan or the Zone ordinance you should Grant these D1 variances okay board it's up to us anyone like to put a motion forth for discussion Madame chair lady I'd like to put forth a motion in this matter I would move that the application for the U the Mikvah um and any modification that's required to the house of worship because of the consolidation of the Lots be approved however I would make a second motion at the uh the application for the EMS be denied and I would like the opportunity to discuss the basis for both of those motions second motion with reference to the the M Mikvah um I don't know that I can agree that the Mikvah is an inherently beneficial use but I don't think it makes a difference in this case quite frankly um the Mikvah was already approved by the planning board as part of I shouldn't say the acha was already approved by the planning board in a prior application for the approval of the house of worship which to me would indicate that the house of worship was a conditional use and therefore at least the MIT the Mikvah since it didn't come to the board of adjustment was at least permitted there is condition or as principal I will look at it worst case scenario I would look at the application for the mka M Mikvah not as an inherently beneficial use but a use that's being proposed the statement of operations presented by the applicant in this case uh clearly says that the Mikvah is not for prayer not for services not for teachings or other gatherings so it's not related to service type situations as if it was in fact part of the the house of worship however uh I am convinced however that if anything else the Mikvah because it's now Consolidated on the same lot is an accessory use to the house of worship and and permitted either as a principal or conditional use being pre previously approved as far as the Mikvah is concerned uh let's look at the positive criteria in this in this regard the location um when we look at at at the positive criteria we're looking at the uh particular suitability of the proposed use for the site this could not be a better site for this proposed use and it's right next door to or now going to be incorporated with the house of worship and they are related to each other so in that regard I can see that there is a a a benefit to the general welfare because of where it's being located it's located with a a similar type of use as far as the negative criteria are concerned relative to the the master plan I think Mr McFarland testified that in this uh residential Zone RG what is it rg2 um yeah uh speaks about mixed types of uses that are related that that benefit the the general Community mostly residential well this this type of application certainly supports that purpose in in the master plan and I I accept his testimony in that regard uh relative to the the negative criteria of any impact on a neighborhood you already have the house of worship there it is an accessory use to that house of worship so I don't see any negative impact whatsoever so even if I were reviewing this application as an inherently beneficial use and I were weighing the benefit against the detriment having no no significant detriment that it satisfies that that analysis whether it is inherently beneficial or not I think we can support this application at least I I can support this application as if it's a D1 as as or a a D3 it's a conditional as uh it relates to the m MCV application now let me discuss my motion if I may for denial of the EMS the problem I have with the EMS is it just doesn't jive it doesn't it doesn't seem to fit here it's someone comes in and says I want an application not related to the house of worship not related to Mikvah not related to to the owners of the property or the relation I want to put up an EMS here so let's look at that as if it's a a D1 I disagree with um our attorney that it's it's a inherently beneficial use it has not been decided to be such according to him uh as such so we're not bound by that type of uh interpretation or or opinion uh I understand Mr M McFarland's testimony that it fits within the definition of inherently beneficial use if you've listened to um Miss Jennings when when she first opened made an opening statement she cited the Sia case the Sitka case is is used by a lot of applicants before this board when inherently beneficial use is being presented the interesting concept and I've mentioned this a number of times the interesting Concept in in in Sia by the Supreme Court statement by the Supreme Court not as part of the decision but in passing notes that there is an issue of need that has to be has to be looked at inherently beneficial use presumptively satisfies that need but presumptively satisfies that need uh in Sitka the Supreme Court noticed in the application as part of the record and and if you're not familiar with Sitka Sitka was Dr SI was the applicant in Wall Township before the board of adjustment for a head trauma center and uh the Supreme Court after reviewing all of the the records and reports they uh granted granted the or affirmed one way or another the the application for the head trauma center but the Supreme Court noted you know essentially don't paraphrase paraphrase it says look folks when you're looking at this type of use it's the only head trauma center that let me strike that the nearest head trauma center is in New York so it was looking at the fact that inherently beneficial means that it satisfies a need there's another case and I forget the name of it um I think Cali Barry I think something of that nature it was up in hunon County it came out of the Appel Division and it's for a temple was for a house of worship um and the and it was not Jewish Orthodox I it was uh I think it was Indian but I don't recall exactly but in in that case they said the same thing they said look folks this is an application for this Temple and there are none in in in hunterton County this will be the only one so we're talking about need I asked the applicants uh witness who testified on the operation of the uh EMS I said where where is the the nearest location why is there a need could answer the question he didn't know and I think that that's an essential uh piece of information that we should have I don't disagree that EMS services are uh beneficial to the community I don't disagree with that but I I you know I also know that if you had an EMS uh one EMS station on each corner of a four four corner intersection uh you wouldn't happen you wouldn't have to approve every one of them because their in quotes benefit the community I mean you have to look at the impact and the need and we they haven't shown any the other problem I have is that with the planning board when it granted the house of worship uh imposed specific conditions one of those conditions was and I know I might get some interpretation on this but let me finish see if I have it here someplace it's number five on page five of the resolution it states the property may not be rented to any individual or entity who is not a congregant of the house of worship itself excuse me now I know that somebody's gonna say well it's not rented well what is it uh it's gifted it's not gifted they haven't given they haven't gotten the subdivision it separates this lot out that says I'm giving you this lot now commercial use it's yours that's not what they' done here they're saying we'll allow you to use it and we're not getting any money for it uh somewhere along the line there's some consideration being considered I don't know what it is I don't care not it's not important to this to this part of the application and someone will also say Mr McFarland pointed out look the resolution originally granted by the planning board relates to lot too doesn't relate to any of these two lots well wait a minute the application here is the consolidate all of these Lots into a single lot and the in I can I can read that resolution as an intent that everything on this property should be related to the house of worship so the operation is all within the house of worship the MS is not part of it at all none so not not only is it a to me a a violation of the resolution previously adopted for the house of worship but there is and again there's no relationship between between the house of worship operation and the EMS but as far as the EMS is concern I'm not sure that in my mind I I find that the applicant has not met its burden relative to particular suitability okay there may be a need for an EMS but where's the nearest one is it three blocks away is it a quarter of a mile away is it 50 miles away we don't know I mean I would think if I were the applicant I would present some testimony even if I got it from the township as to where the EMS locations are so that they would be able to provide that information say look they're too far away they can't respond to this community over here and then I can understand the point but we don't have any information we have an obligation to make a decision based on the record that's being presented to us so as far as the positive criteria soon assuming it's a D1 not an inherently beneficial use I think they have not met their burden if it is an inherently beneficial use I still think in order to for me to accept it as inherently beneficial being it presumptively satisfies a need and no need been shown here and that's my problem with that part of the application I have no problem with the midra I I think that's fine I have no no disagreements with it at all the difficulty I have is with the proof that have been submitted for the EMS and that's why I have the motion to deny the EMS thank you I have comments on that okay go ahead I [Music] [Music] and but there are senior in C parts of are stations orance response times are minimal as take it as a when exp very people serve as areal I um thank you I had some similar comments I actually um did have a similar concern as Mr Earley had as far as like how does this Jive you know initially when I was looking at the application it's like to me it's it's definitely you know serves the public good um the two-minute response time that Miss Bradley had mentioned is it's it's that is a um the hotella response time is is a a very noteworthy um in in its speed and and the whole construct the way it's set up and the way um the members respond from where they are it does it's not comparable to another EMS facility that may be in the area and so um from that perspective it really it it really does it it is a a an operation that that serves the public good and um I would also tend to think of that as inherently beneficial I can't imagine like anyone who's familiar with the hatala organization I think would just you know wholeheartedly say it's an inherently beneficial use without you know without without any hesitation um and so to me while I I had a similar struggle like what do you do with a you know a separate completely unrelated use but you know if you look at the balancing test it's just it's not even a question anymore because the inherently beneficial nature of it it just that that's not a substantial detriment it does there's there's no other um really negative impact and so it's it's just like I I would have a hard time understanding how anyone would see it differently of course we all have our own you know unique perspectives and and experiences and and perspective here but um to me it's it's you know the donation aspect it's it's not a commercial um lease type structure it's it's the the ambulance was gifted um there's no consideration other than serving the public good that's that's you know if there is consideration that's what it is um and the piece of property would I I believe would be similarly um sort of interpreted and uh and as far as it being particularly suitable it's it's you know the need has been established just by the fact that a $350,000 ambulance has been donated and is parked in the area to preserve this so that it could serve the public um for for you know a longer period of time without it it having any kind of wear and tear from being out in the elements with you know having the additional accessories uh that are needed in the building all of that is just just uh um you know improves its ability to serve the public and um I I don't know procedurally you know there's a there there's two motions I don't know if it's one motion or two separate motions that's a great that's a great question I'm gon I will I I plan to address that and since you brought it up I'll address it now um there are two separate use variances here I would suggest that the board take a vote um on each use variant separately considering the the Motions that have been uh um put forth uh and seconded um so I'd like to make clear that these motions uh made by Mr Hurley have been um seconded by Mr book and accordingly they are on the floor for vote um for the chair uh for Mr Murphy actually uh there's also a site plan component to this too they've asked for preliminary and final site plan so I think there's I from what I understand each motion is use variance only and then depending on the outcome of those there would have to be another motion regarding the site that is accurate um I was talking two motions set forth by Mr Hurley that have been seconded by Mr book there is a site playing component this is not a bated application um exactly so that was not addressed in the motion made by Mr Hurley at this point um so I was not addressing that but yes there would need to be a a subsequent vote um based upon the outcome on the site plan issues may I may I add one other point to that if I may any SE variances are being deemed consumed into the D so if the D is approved the C's are approved correct thank you any other board members have any questions or comments so Mr Murphy just to make sure that I do this properly we're going to vote first on the we we we so the the first motion um set forth by Mr Hurley was an approval of the D1 variant uh for the Mikvah okay so the the again this is and that would subsume any c variances that were necessary or any waivers Etc uh that were necessary in relation to the Mikvah um so we're gonna the first vote would be as a yes to a approve the D1 variant uh for the requested Mikvah okay roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes yes Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss frit yes Miss Bradley yes okay so the second motion that was placed uh on the record by Mr Mr hurle was a denial of the EMS um the requested D1 variants for the EMS building um a yes vote would be a yes to deny um and again the motion is uh for the denial of the D1 variants as to the EMS building Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith no Mr book for the reasons Mr Hurley placed upon their record yes Miss Parnes no Mr Heyman no Miss Fritch no Miss Bradley no could I put a motion forth to approve the EMS building you may motion to approve the EMS building let's let's be clear we're approving the D1 variants related to the EMS building correct correct okay thank you with a condition that it only be used for an EMS building EMS use correct correct and the applicant did agree to that condition so yes given the motion the conditions I'll second it roll call please Mr Hurley no Mr Stafford Smith yes yes Mr book no Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes both D1 variances have been approved congratulations uh we will need we will need a I'm getting there we will need a motion to approve uh or a motion to dis approv the site plan motion to approve the site plan with all the conditions that you noted and and variance relief and and variance really second so just to be clear before we do roll call we're now voting on the site plan and variance relief for the Mikvah and then we'll have a sep for both of them together okay it's one big want make sure I'm getting this proper so we're voting to uh for the site plan in the variant relief for both the mikva and the EMS all is one roll call please Mr Hurley because it includes the EMS no Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book no Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss frit yes Miss bradling yes very much have a good [Music] evening is [Music] something we are going to move on we are going to move on on to application number five 60 acre Reserve amended site plan approval 239-b 8001 lot five forgive me I'm probably gonna butcher your name Mr poac oh okay okay better there we David Merritt from the Govern Legal Services on behalf of the 60 Acres Reserve Condominium Association thank you uh to the board and to Madam chair and to the board for staying this late I'll try and keep this quick um 60 Acres Reserve Condominium Association is uh condominium in Jackson Township dates back to the 80s um unfortunately as it came when when it came time to mail notices the block and lot is block 801 lot five it is literally 60 Acres for one lot which meant that we had to mail notices 2,000 Homes at a significant expense um the site is applying to uh place a fence enclosure around the existing dumpster pad so at the moment there is a concrete dumpster pad near the clubhouse and the Condominium Association the nonprofit is applying to enclose that um in accordance with Township Code 244-2080 [Laughter] um if you would please raise your right hand you saw me swear affirm that the testimony information questions or comments you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you very much if you would please state your name uh provide your affiliation and credentials Brian with a B Murphy 1856 route n Tom River principal Associates before this board boards throughout the state um this board accepts your credentials thank you thank you very much all right all right there we go sorry about that uh as indicated we're it's an existing dumpster pad it just doesn't have a fence around it uh this dumpster is a little unique in compared to the typical dumpsters that we're dealing with this one is for bulk garbage uh so the larger garbage that that's accumulated in the development uh this is where they bring it to basically dispose of it throughout the development roughly 18 of them there's the typical trash and recycling dumpsters enclosures that are spread out throughout the community for the community to use but this is for the bulk uh requirements uh they've been having an issue with people dumping things that they shouldn't be in this location so they want to kind of get it under better control and also kind of screen the existing dumpster area uh so what's going to happen is this will be enclosed the office will have the keys to the dumpster enclosure you have to go to the office they'll come and unlock it and hopefully that's going to control what's being uh deposited uh at this location um we're also looking to put an8 foot fence around this uh 8 foot is permitted around dumpster enclosures uh it would be chain link vents with slats what we're proposing um we do have a waiver that that's required uh the dumpsters are required to have Landscaping on three sides uh we will only have it on two because there's Gates on either end of of the dumpster enclosure so we'll agree to provide that the landscape on the two sides that don't have the gate um I think I answered most of the questions that were in uh Mr Peter's letter um obviously any questions from the board of the professionals happening any questions or comments for the applicant what's the size of the fence how tall 8 foot okay enclosed on all sides on all sides with a gate yes gate Gates on two sides en closed on two sides so if you made this a solid fence you wouldn't be here would you it it is a solid fence I thought so it it was denied on grounds that that um that under your fence ordinance it was six feet only um so as well as the fact that as uh condom name ass they need to amend their their Master understand the eight feet is is okay but is this chain link with slats or is this solid chain link with slats that's my point okay if if you use a a white vinyl fence around this thing with the gate does that change anything I don't believe so so so the is the Board of Trustees is would would like to consider vinyl fence the concern is that with an OT fence vinyl is going to have to be special ordered and may not be available the 8 foot allows them to sry the chain link allows them to get to eight feet um with the slats included for the the um the visibility how long have they been there without the fence I mean come on since since 86 so for the board if I can maybe help clarify we when we see new site plans come in there's a track like on the last one there's a there's a refug enclosure it's it's it's usually block walls with with gate on the front the last applicant he was proposing something six foot high we've seen trash enclosers and trash enclosers are allowed to be up to 8 feet high on on properties we're only here because of the material because it's fencing material and it's greater than six feet they're proposing eight so uh just clear you're not proposing any Barb Wire no all right no razor wire the uh what's the need for an 8 foot fence why is six feet not sufficient because uh basically is to keep people from dumping things over the fence uh they'll back up with a pickup truck and throw it over a six foot fence so we're trying to inhibit that with an 8ot got it I was just think that if someone's determined to throw it in there they're going to either the bust the fence or they'll make their way to get in there regardless yeah we're we're hoping it's enough of of a deterrent to got it yeah thank you through the chair yes um Mr H could you clarify an eight foot fence is not the issue if it were a white vinyl 8ot fence they wouldn't be here no that's not correct it's they're they're here because of the material type all right uh if it was a trash crash enclosure that was being built on a site today it would have concrete block walls some landscaping around the perimeter and only the front would be a fenced gate in this case they're proposing fencing and fencing only so it's a fence height issue it's not the trash and it's not the trash enclosure height issue here it's because of the material it's the fence height only regardless of what whether it was white vinyl or any other fence a fence is not correct a chain link fence is a offense is offense is offense right okay got it I misunderstood that thank you clarify chair respectfully the Township Code section 24428 if I may um requires a 5 foot minimum with lands apologize wrong section The Refuge storage area should be surrounded on three sides by a solid uniform fence or wall not less than 5 feet nor more than 8 feet in height such fence shall be exempt from the provisions of any ordinance regulating the height of fences so why are we here my only point is I went to visit a uh veterinarian for my dog and the vet has a a high fence it's all and it looks really nice it's it's white vinyl has a gate on it of course my dog went over and christened it but it just it just makes a lot more sense it would seem to me cheaper it would be cheaper in the long run to get the the solid Final Fence it'll look a heck of a lot better and you wouldn't have to keep replacing the slats because you know they're going to get W wrecked up mrman would the applicant be willing to put um privacy bushes around the three sides just the front we we would put it on two sides because we have Gates on both ends so so we put Landscaping on on the two sides of is there a need for a gate on both sides meaning the my understanding is from when I went down site is that people should be pulling into the lot not unloading from the street if you're opening if you're having an opening to the street then people going to be unloading from the street and I don't think that for safety purposes they should be doing that sure that they the back gate isn't for loading uh the purpose of that is is sometimes you have to get into that are into the back of the container because that's where the door is so you be you need to be able to get into the back of the container to basically stack some of some of the material in there that they store more in in the dumpster you know because people just throw it in they're not looking to pack it in property you said it is bulk so it's generally bigger items exactly also I think it would be more important to have that kind of privacy to the street that you shouldn't it shouldn't be as recognizable from the street if You' put that door maybe on the side or a smaller door that it's you just think that it's a little bit of an ey sore um I I apiz for testifying but the the dump the issue is that the dumpster opens in the back so the door needs to open to allow the dumpster to open so that you can walk into the dumpster uh from the backside it has a it's a single door on the dumpster so that swings open and it's only in the back so we need the gates to open in the back to be able to get into the back of the dumpster to be able to stack the material better inside of the dumpster so when they drop off when the truck drops it off he saying the way it's always dropped off as the gates are always in the back always in the back yeah got yeah that's the way it hooks up in into the uh truck that's that's the only purpose of the gates is so that we can actually get in open the back doors and be able to get into those dumpsters ju just out of curiosity since these gates are locked who's dumping into it well that you you go to the office and the office comes out and will unlock the gate for for the person wow so they they'll be able to monitor what you're throwing in now uh it's not going to be a perfect system but it's going to be better than than what they have now any additional questions comments since there's no additional questions or comments from the board I'm going to open it to the public anybody wishing to come forward and make a statement about this application please feel free seeing no one come forward I'm going to go ahead and close public session would you like to make a closing statement I have nothing for that uh okay board it's up to us would anybody like to put forward a [Music] motion just for clarity the app the application for the Varian is for height huh and the m just the material it sounds actually it sounds like perhaps it's also for the both gates based upon the ordinance if the applicant proposed the same fence and it was only three sides they wouldn't be here it's having the it's really enclosing four sides of the enclosure okay four sides of the four enclosing it with four walls so to speak so an eight an8 foot an8 foot fence that's not not closed off is permitted if it were three sides only it would be permitted so the problem here is that they're enclosing it with the gate right it's Fourth the fourth side so to speak I'll make a motion to approve second any questions or comments since no one has any questions or comments Liz roll call please Mr Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Miss parnaz yes Mr Heyman yes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes congratulations sorry you had to stay so long thank you very much have a good night motion to adjourn all in favor all right see you in two weeks