[Music] people how do I get just let is it garbage all right it is 3:00 and this is the community redevelopment agency regular meeting for Monday July 22 2024 please follow Mr Ron wton Mr M Mr Gary P Mr David M here Mr and all right to start we have the approval of minutes a May 282 meeting com questions yes Mr chairman if there are no other comments by my colleagues I'd like to go ahead and to approve the meeting minutes for May 28th 2024 and also June 12th 2024 I will second that all right we have to do two separate approvals um no the motion if I could cover both we can just do a roll call and then the vot Mr Mosley yes Mr Gary PT yes Mr David MC yes Francis yes yes all right by your votes those minutes are approved courtesy Flor visitors we are going to be discussing this you're more than welcome to come up now or you can wait for the discussion so anybody want to come up now wait all right downtown we haven't done that a long time that was also part of our little bit in our population of our agenda so they they do not have anything for this meeting unless you have otherwise no old business I may I just have a question for I'm just curious I believe we approved an incentive for the retail development at um along 6 North roughly at First Street um what's the status of that appears that nothing has been done in quite some time going to ultimately use the incentive sure so uh we've reached out um they did not ever speak out to us for reimbursement on that um and we had a meeting about a week and a half ago um just on some other topics regarding that property um so I don't know that they'll end up using that incentive uh they never did seek out reimbursement for that so at this time that's really the only update we have is they ended up not going forward with the paint and repairs that's unate new bus um yeah we just had a couple of quick updates for you guys and I believe Heather you got a power correct um so just from our end um the city of is conducting some repairs on the pier um they so if we you guys see equipment heading that way or anything like that it's not us it's not that it coj where you come up onto the pier those Center boards um the sand has gotten underneath the pier and it's shifted and it's made those uneven so it's tripping Hazard um we don't have their schedule yet we don't know exactly when they're they're going to start they anticipate what they told us the work would take like s to 10 days is what they were estimating it would be um again until they really get in there we just don't know how long it's going to take um and at this time we have told them that they cannot use our area U because we are Al subsequent to that we uh met with the contractors that parks and W have a continuing Services contract for for concrete um and papers we met with them went over the scope um of the peer project with them for that entryway piece and so they are working up some numbers for us now so as soon as we get those we'll bring those back to you guys um we are also waiting still on the final uh plans for the passive Park and again once we have those with thw we got their purchase order number so they should be able to get us invoiced and get those to us soon um and then Heather do you have anything you want to add before I pull up your PowerPoint okay Mr Baron uh CRA just uh this is just an informational update for you all uh for those that don't know we did put out a Paving request for fiscal year 24 we'll be looking to award that at the next city council meeting in a couple of weeks as part of that um there was one section that was CRA funded Paving repairs so as part of the fiscal year 23 year end budget modifications for the south end we recommended holding that money over to be used for this Paving project uh total was 1.75 million it was called out as part of this payment for South uh for um it's it's for uh not for Jacksonville drive but it goes from Jacksonville drive on Marsh Landing Parkway all the way to A1A and then part of Isabella and part of the culdesac that's in there as far as Paving goes so we are looking to award that this is just an FYI of that 1.75 we held over we'll be using $ 64,8 for that Paving section to be redone so a little over $1.1 million sitting there for the drainage side of that particular project which we're still trying to digest to figure out what exactly was the original intent of that drainage project because we don't have anybody at Public Works that has any knowledge of that so but this is just more of an FYI to let you know that we will be spending down the money we requested from last year's budget into this year's budget I just have a quick question I was going through my notes and I couldn't find um the schedule for cleaning and maintenance of the new um infrastructure area that we did South area as well do we have that schedule was um deter the whole entire project for our sewer systems do you was that before you were here that was actually that was actually going as I got here so they were installing all those the concrete C to go down and around the corner so is there any if you haven't seen it can you add it to like the list of things that we keep asking you for to see if you can find where that maintenance is because I was driving by some of the areas that we had recently done the past 10 years and they're already starting to be overgrown so I'd like to know what the maintenance plan was for those because I thought when we decided to do the replacement of them part of the stimulation was the maintenance of so can you just put that on there I will check on that to find out what the hand I know as part part of that plan they did put in a sump to be able to collect sentiment before it enters into those box forwards um so I'm to or something like that I just asked because you know I like make sure we have enough money to do it because I thought it was but I didn't see it when I looked the I was going through so okay yes me just further that a little bit it just kind of reminded me that some of that stor goes into an open area directly behind Staples and uh that area in there um needs to be cleaned out because that continues to flow underneath JTV over to those um box cers and I think somebody just needs to take a look at that den and see whether or not some clean up needs because there's a lot of debris in overgrowth inside that open drainage area so the open drainage area you're talking about does belong to that development it's not part of ours and our stuff actually bypasses that under JTB from the north side of that complex so it doesn't actually flow through there because I that just collects all their parking lot stuff and goes into that Basin I believe but I'll double check into that that's the there's a dra Pond see the west of a little bit larger drainage Pond and I think that's where all of the um development drainage Hills this is just an open there's a pipe that leads into it it's open for about 203 ft maybe a little bit more than that and then it goes under JTV and when we were looking at the plans you know some a couple years ago and you doing that work on that large cul um I understood that that's where that water was coming from but you may want to take a look at that interest thank you real briefly um I spent some time in sunshine Park last week um we still have significant suid as my colleague has noted around storm drains in the park and on the Parkway South Beach Parkway okay I'm sure been talked about before I just want to make sure it's the ones the ones on South Beach Parkway would be ours the ones inside the park should be the parks but I will double check that too thank you very much any other questions Miss Ireland will kind of quickly go through just a brief presentation on a couple of things she want to bring up to agency yeah thank you Taylor uh just kind of a few like off topics if you will that kind of have come up internally that we wanted to just put in front of you guys for Thought down the road perhaps um or as they relate to another project so I'll go through them quickly since we have a pretty big agenda and a lot of folks here um that want to speak but the first thing is the trees and Le Plaza as we're getting closer to the getting the engineering plans done for this part we've kind of gone back and forth with half every time we meet with been like to tree or not to tree as far as what's there now um and so I kind of just wanted to get an idea from the board what the sentiment with the trees are we haven't said one way or another keep them in in the design or take them out especially the ones right in the middle um since they are very costly to relocate remove what have you and those ways we can do it so I just kind of wanted to put that on your radar that it's something we're still undecided about as far as it goes um with the design for LA and Plaza so um be curious to hear your thoughts we can always discuss it when we get to the engineering part and like I said we've told half just to kind of ignore them for now and that we would Circle back to that we didn't want to make any big decisions on these since they were planted a very long time ago very large and very expensive um an expense that the C made 18 years ago when we redid this space so um that's just something I wanted you guys to think about if anyone has any comments I can take them now or we can kind of wait till the end Mr chairman I'll let you decide do you want me to go through every topic or you want to pause between each one oh pause okay um I am under the impression that we're not going to the route of having um other than palm trees for shade that's what we that's where we have that discussion because of the location and El and then I think we also had the discussion about keeping them because they're substantial and at least they're not brand new scit trees right I think that's where we had discuss we had anything so you're basically asking us to come up our own opinion of what we'd like to do and if we can work around where they are not move them at all yes if there's a pre I would love to get a preference them and keep as many trees as possible florid um the more shap the better and even if itty bitty love the one shows you how much shade you get from them yeah keep in mind we will be adding a lot more trees as well so those would be if these remain in addition to I would keep them as is keeps expens down plus they're substantial and I hate tearing things down getting heads and thumbs up from pretty much everybody okay here I would just ask that as we look at this we the trees once they get to be very tall um chances are that their life isn't all that much longer I've had that happen in our community where the trees are so tall that they're not providing anything even trade you know it's just so I would just ask that we look at it we really take of our and see the yeah I think the great the whole point of this was to be used by the community every day and there's not shade no reason use it and I and what's the benefit of removing them I don't see I agree with Francis completely yeah the reason I because we designed 2. 2.0 didn't show them remaining but we had never made a decision one way or the other so um we'll pass this along to half and um just kind of leave it open for now but with the intent that the CRA would prefer to save them if possible if they're if they're helping correct yeah I don't want to um disrupt any innovative ideas so if they have to take two be no other reason okay the next thing I wanted to bring to you guys and this has just come up a lot of different ways as far as the functionality of First Street um some of you may remember this is what it looked like in in 2011 it was just a normal street with curb and gutter and no parking on either side this is what it looked like after it was redone so this was 2015 I pulled this up because there were a lot of cars parked on the street so I wanted to show that this is how they're parking and if you can see this car right here is pretty much on the sidewalk so uh super thoughtful for pedestrians there but it's difficult the original plans I think the intent was to allow some I think it called it what it call it t like preferred parking or priority parking or something where if you could you know sneak your car in you'd be right in front of where you want to be um but it ended up being kind of a mess as you've known and signs had to be erected everywhere they all say something different and so as we're looking at maybe some opportunities to improve First Street one of the things that came to mind was do we want to continue to allow parking on First Street because the reality is from The Pavilion to uh Spring Hill it's maybe 20 cars at most that can park and if you're on the E uh west side of the road you can't park without being on the sidewalk so we had an internal meeting with public works and the police department and CRA staff to kind of go over like could be done as an alternative as far as streetscape Hardscape landscape what have you to discourage parking because it does I mean y'all have read your bikes here before it's very confusing it's in my opinion dangerous um uh sorry IAD did to include that the fire marshall was in on that discussion as as well and so we invite Steve sh up literally every meeting we have um he just comes to everything so our thoughts were to you know find out some ways that we can kind of maybe solve two problems in in one um eliminate some of the halfhazard parking eliminate some of the sign clutter and basically make it so you can't park um and also provide some amenities so this is from uh Toledo Ohio and you see they have the curbless street like we do and stuff right up to it so I think there's some opportunity there um as far as internally when we met everyone was pretty much on board with moving forward with something um but we obviously wanted you know the C to weigh in if this is something you think you want us to start investigating a little bit more um one of the thoughts we had was some of these spaces might be uh one thing they're lacking downtown is ada8 parking u in really great locations so they're not convenient as they are now but in some of these areas you might actually be able to make it ada8 parking only which I think would be a benefit for for everybody but eliminate that just regular parking um so anyway I'm I'm really curious to know where the CRA feels about this topic and if it's something that you want staff to proceed with and investigate a little bit further to find some solutions that um our Police Department's been very very very negative about that whole layout since shortly after done Reon tough on cyclist tough on pedestrians tough on people trying to park so I don't know what the right answer is but it definitely needs to be cleaned up and simplified for sure and again the police very strong opinions about it and there's right reason walk through St thank I agree from a safety point of view there and there's cars going both ways where the pedestrians go so I think there's really nowhere it's there's not a lot of room and I think what you showed in Toledo makes a ton of sense I mean I don't think there's parking very close and the parking that's complet directly to the left there's EA parking there right I think there's a spot maybe is that a place where we put more more of 8 parking yeah we we do have 8 parking space standard so we'd have to go out in the field of measure to see where we actually could put them and how we could put them um and if there's adequate space to make it so it's a true Ada space that's going to meet the needs of of someone actually using it but we want to get more downtown in better locations than we have now so we thought this could not promising that it can be because we haven't done measurements yet we haven't du too deep into it but if it's possible we'd like to turn into it I think we need to really step back and look at this it's not just a parking issue it also has to do with um how how deliveries are made to the different businesses along there um right now there is a provision an ordinance that says that mil deliveries can be made from Vehicles park down First Street as well as some of the I'm not mistaken Commander Crum you might be able to answer that a little bit more directly but we do have some things on the books that no allow that um there is very confusing for the pedestrians because there was no real um pedestrian Crossing to find yes there is some Paving patterns there but it's very confusing as to what it says same thing true when you go to the U The Avenues the at those locations you have handic parking spaces but it's not well with the paving materials that are put down it then you go to the areas around um Spring Hill suit and I just went by there on the way here to the meeting and there is one major storm drainage system Inlet where we reped it a couple of times already now there's looks like there the water's not getting into the actual storm drainage but going into the opening that's before it and starting to Arrow the papers in that area I know in my conversations with Public Works that um they have a half of a time trying to maintain the papers and I think simplifying them in some way where we don't have all these different colors and patterns and things that some of us were down in Fort Myers a couple of years ago where they had redone the downtown and in that location it was very simple uh colored papers on the sidewalk areas but very basic Asphalt Paving in the uh in the streets it was simple it was clean and it was um you know really met the needs and I think we need to do something similar and then ultimately we need to coordinate it with the urban trails because there are in the urban Trails recommendations three or four different options to what First Street becomes is it all pedestrian is it um uh traffic in One Direction only or do we maintain traffic in both directions North and South so from a holistic standpoint I think it takes a little bit more than just saying this is what we're going to do for parking address this because it's something that I you've heard me comment on numerous times that i' really like to see uh something in the Downs are I think it would make a mar Improvement in the feel and the quality of what our community can be yeah I was just going to respond to the deliveries you're right they are prohibited on First Street uh by code it's really hard to regulate obviously police will tell you that um all day because you've got different drivers different restaurant managers and they they don't know and it's hard to like keep educating um but one thing that we did discuss was creating some designated unloading zones on the Avenues where the ability exist where they wouldn't be parked in the street so we do want to take a look at some areas where that would make sense maybe one on the North End of the district and one on the south end of the core downtown so that delivery Chucks have a designated spot During certain hours of the day where they won't disrupt parking and things like that so something trying to take a look at so we can hopefully provide spaces where they won't be kind of forced on the first street if you will can I just add one um our chairman made a recomendation couple years ago that I thought was a superation was take a look at the Avenues the end zones of theen and take a look at doing something other parking in those are making are you could have a SE you're showing in your too picture that you had up there but to make few of those particular in the downtown district just for pedestrians and proceeding for the restaurant's use I think would change the whole complex of downtown but that wasn't my suggestion I fully support um and agreed that it would be nice to redo the downtown area to make it less um hazardous as far as understanding what the papers are meant to do um I think that that's going to be a huge project that's going to require a lot of money because it's going to replace a heck of a lot of space with a whole bunch of products so I think in the meantime even though I completely support that and agree with you I think in the meantime um some paint and some removal signs repls of sign easy fix to to do with this section specifically this one block um versus creating a fiveyear plan to replace everything and wait for five years so that's just my personal opinion for now yes I do think it's important yes I don't really like the papers because they're faded and no is going on and yes it is a hazard and the bricks keep disappearing during projects and we have to keep replacing them and it comes more of a collage of color versus design so beside that I do agree think that's going to much further down line project and so in the meantime I would be forward support of you guys finding solutions that are relatively cheap couple cans paint and some side yeah and and to be to be clear our strategy here our thought process was not to be redoing all the papers at this point in time keep in mind we don't have Direction yet from City Council on if they want to oneway this when this is going to be you know the segment of the urban trail that that that we tackle so that's still on the horizon but we don't have the timeline so our thought was you maybe a few more trash cans maybe some more um flower planters seeding perhaps um things things like that maybe even some art that would just basically be in the way of anyone trying to park there and would kind of create that buffer for pedestrians so hopefully feel a little bit more safe when they walk along the sidewalks and you can ask Public Works director how he feels about papers that's I don't think you need to was a street end it was the scene of incredible Gatherings of folks from other places seen much violence the scene of a sergeant I think either stable shack body slamming and guns popping out of belts to seeing the people running away from fights and 60 people knowing them and seeing them not telling anybody who they were that Third Avenue North was a disaster now I can't say it was because of the design was designed for no parking and that's what we got it was awful thank you in general my thoughts are I would like to see a bigger idea than just parking I don't want to see a little temporary solution I want to see a big idea that is going to encourage Economic Development so I guess you know we're not building on anything here so you get what you need from us yes okay so the the next thing just want to bring up real quickly is our sidewalk dining program as you know we have Waka and jaal Brewing both taking advantage of this uh pilot program it is set to expire in January obviously we would like to extend it um that's something that we will take to council to ask them to extend it into future years or maybe make it permanent but one of the things we wanted to look at is does it make sense to do this on other streets so we looked at downtown and looked at what's there now and what do we know is coming to to a location downtown to see where something like this would make sense to expand it um so I'll start with Second Avenue North this is where um habes was and this is going to be a new mixed use building with a restaurant that's going to be kind of on the corner of second and first so we thought this would be a good location to at least offer this as an opportunity whether they take advantage of it or not um none of the rest of this space could could do it but we thought this would be a good location the next is Fourth Avenue North potentially oku Sushi is right here or a future tenant if if they move to a bar location someday and also the gallery should that ever become some type of restaurant which we've heard may happen down the road um we thought that that would be an appropriate location for that as well and then also Fifth Avenue North uh the property owners are hoping to do a Redevelopment in this area um rather soon that would include a restaurant so we thought that this is a good opportunity as well to expand that program and then also there's an existing restaurant right here that could potentially take advantage of that obviously all within the confines of the program that we've developed we haven't um observed any issues with the program as it exists now so we're really just looking to continue it and potentially expand it and really just wanted to get the C's thoughts on on moving this further into the downtown [Music] for those areas if we want to grow that and require those because I think aesthetically we want that so are we able to we're just giving them the option but not the requirement are we able to require that they do that right because if we give them the option I think it's a really nice unique thing and it's will make it look cohesive it's it's in different areas it makes it feel more walkable right it's it's cool and so if give me op they the option it may not really do what we're trying to do I do yeah no I understand that I currently uh I think it's from my perspective an incentive for them to have this because we're allowing them to use City ride of way under some you know parameters of course for expanding their outdoor seating that they don't have to provide extra parking for and they can you know have more visibility like Hey we're open look there's people outside we have tables and chairs so it really is more of an incentive than anything else um I think that most businesses if had the opportunity would take advantage of this I don't think that we would need to make it a requirement because we worked really closely with jaal and Waka on how it was going to look and how it was going to work um and and it's working great like I said so I don't know that I would want to require it necessarily because there's other things involved too yes I would just encourage you to take a look at the the avenu and Zone Avenues also if we're looking at um The Avenues between first and second Street why not look at the the end zones also there may be some places that that makes sense I'm I'm not sure off the top of my head but I just yeah yeah to Taylor's doesn't have her mic on but this this program is just for restaurants not bars and with the yellow squares that I identified are just locations that potentially in the future could like you see I don't I don't have one in front of mangoes that's a bar so they don't qualify so the street ends are kind of the same right now they at least third as far as flanking it so we wouldn't want to do it in that location but if we do designate a corridor it would be from third to the street end for any eligible um restaurant we wouldn't just pi pick and choose locations yeah we would do the whole Corridor for whoever would be eligible to participate that was actually what was going to verify the bars but if I remember right there was a certain percentage of sales that went to Food versus alcohol for that um classification can you refresh me on what that is sure so the state alcohol license um if you want to sell full liquor it's a 4 coop special restaurant license and you have to do the 51% sales of non-alcoholic Beverages and food so if they were qualify under that um then they would qualify for this I am always in favor of this so we are going to do this and let's say tenant moves out who happens to be bar that's underneath and you sell less food than alcohol we need come up with a solution to how to utilize a remov said outdoor seating if they go from being a restaurant to buil it's built into their application so because it is City RightWay there's a lot of parameters that come with that with us and actually with State and their lure so the business goes away that goes away and anyone moving in would have to reapply and if it's a bar they don't qualify thank you for your input on that um I think this is my last maybe second or less um and this might I really just kind of want to get this in your I we need to discuss it today because I think this is more appropriate for a workshop topic um councilman Mesa asked at our joint meeting you know what are we doing with this vacant CR lot and our response was what do you want us to do with the vacant CR lot we've got a direction um from Council on it so I just wanted to put this in your head and prepare to maybe talk about this at a future workshop and kind of Workshop this and where are we dealing with this property that was purchased for something that not currently being used for um so really this is kind of holder for you guys to think about this and perhaps in September we can Workshop this um particular property can I suggest an idea love to hear your idea I've always thought it would be really great if there was a lot that food trucks can pull up and there'll just be six food trucks and a bunch of picnic tables where people can want to okay and that's cheap if we don't have to spend anything and we can always turn because really the only thing we've identified for this site for the very short term is some temporary art installations perhaps we haven't been able to get to that yet so think I I know think think about it we'll Circle back to this um because I think it's a bigger discussion than just for this meeting and that's what it looks like so I mean it's not necessarily unsightly it's being low but there could be something right there okay I think this is my last one for real um this last fiscal year when we made some TW to our uh facade beautification grant program um we did a little bit more with like dumpster enclosures and wanted to encourage we we kind of switch things up a little bit to focus on different areas as we're going through our Land Development code looking at different sections to update one of the things that we got talking about internally unrelated to the CRA was just all the non-conforming signs that are in the city which are these poll signs I actually went and found all the Knockin foring poll signs on this side of Third Street in the district um and they've some of them have been there for a really long time and they don't go away because they can't replace them like this so they tend to linger around probably longer than we want them to um we've been talking about maybe doing some type of amortization schedule to remove non-conforming signs from the city because it's been in our code for a very long time yet a lot of signs still remain so I wanted to put this in front of the crra to see if this is something and my these are all of them not on the west side of Third Street because that's not in the district uh but what the cra's thoughts are in with incorporating this into our beautification they can already get sign um for I think was just wall signs or was it both as part of the facade Grant if this was something the C would even be interested in kind of looking at or making making available more specifically to businesses in the in the district but specifically on Third Street I couldn't find any that were not on Third Street and I I drove down the street looking for signs um so just something to think about we don't I don't need any answers right now but as we're looking for ways to beautify the downtown district this is just one way I see it's kind of honestly low hanging fruit U but signs are expensive sometimes so it's a lot of reason why businesses don't replace them and they and they leave them there I think that Starbucks sign has been like five different businesses over the years so it's been able to remain be doing something like an incentive for those sign put up long the sign code came about we think about doing an incentive to help them maybe move towards redoing their signs so that we get a little more consistency with sign code yeah and that's exactly what we're talking about here is it would be potentially part of the incentive program the facade Improvement program so we focusing on things like windows and doors and paint landscaping and stuff um and this is just kind of maybe maybe taking in another step to focus on some other things as we as businesses maybe aren't as interested in the initial kind of batch of things that we were thinking it would be used for but kind of moving on to this next step so um certainly yeah it would be it would be considered an an incentive in my eyes thank you very much and then I think the last thing for real for real for real this is the last one liketh no okay so uh we've been working with the art committee on starting to talk about ideas for the peer entry way and you guys remember these are in the original plans I don't recall that anyone said they liked either one of these quite frankly uh but these were again they were just placeholders these weren't things that that the plans were saying put this here or put that there well it was Ved SE it was I didn't like the remember I I recall the the sentiment was they didn't nobody liked really either one of these issues with chair well we have now put it in the hands of our art committee to start talking about and thinking about what we want that to look like and um you know we have these original drawings in our plans of just kind of these static sculptures but one of the our committee was kind of batting back and forth was more of an entry way and so I just pulled examples of other cities that's a literal entryway um I love this one it's got those words but uh just to kind of see where you guys have an opinion on that Francis does she's already got a Lup um so that we can kind of help better direct the art committee as they move forward with this with this project I think that was the last one sorry this was talked about for a lot of reasons we were told because we wanted the C I don't know 11 years ago how long forever they wanted to do that kind of over thing and we were told that a city of Jackson those property we couldn't do that even though we were trying to do it on city of Jackson Beach property to do it at the CP of theer versus the itself so are you saying not to do it um by where it was likeon there you're talking about more putting it towards on our property where we're going to put theer board hypothetically yes on that part on the boardwalk somewhere and I know that the mayor at the time was wan to be able to see it from you see this Grand sche thing but then that's why I didn't like to have on the side you couldn't see it when you turned Theo so I'm fine with that I just make sure that we are the city because I thought we had splashing because of the city I mean obviously we can't put it on the pier because the city won't let us then we will not do that put it on the boardwalk or closer to the parking lot obviously we can't obstruct that travel Lane of the boardwalk for Emer all right ready for new business year 2025 annual budgets I believe we have our CFO Miss Ashley Daws in attendance um if you want to come up to address the agency on the budget um you guys were provided the worksheet and all the figures um in advance and M's memo as well as the resolution for adoption good afternoon CFO I actually do not have a presentation on this item um the expense uh bu exactly the same as was presented in the May 24th meeting um the only change to the numbers are the revenue estimates are a little bit higher now that we've received um the dr420 from the property appraiser um and if you have any questions actually just a quick one um the combined Redevelopment District um budget numbers uh 22 23 through 25 the first line item talks about cash balance carried forward from the prior year and I just want to make sure I'm on the same page with you that cash being carried forward is actually committed funds to different um CIP typ projects and things to that extent available funds for other things yes sir as a requirement of Redevelopment tax increment funds they have to be committed at the end of every fiscal year so any cash balance carried forward is either committed to projects you've already awarded like projects four and five the $30 million that's still ongoing or projects that exist in the 5year CIP plan so all the cash that's represented here is tagged to specific projects I thank you I will Mr chairman I'll make a motion that we adopt FIS year 2025 anual Mr Mosley yes Mr G yes Mr David MC yes M Francis pki yes M me yes Mr chair may I add something to new business real quick um before we move on to the next section because I know we have a lot of speakers um a few weeks ago uh the mayor and yourself asked about the ability for CRA to pay for we were calling them security grants to supplement some of the security measures that businesses downtown have to take uh we said we get with legal and make a determination whether or not that that's something that CRA or Cape dollars can pay for um and the answer was yes so we just wanted to pass that information yet um if the CRA still wants us to proceed moving on with that potential program um then we'll move move on to the next step of getting with the police department and other uh City departments to kind of work out the details of that and bring something back to you guys at a later date that's okay with everyone anyone not in favor um I just want to confirm the meeting we would be we would be saying to have and be coming in with ideas and things that we could potentially use um to offer to businesses in the area for not just crowd control right it would be a variety of different things it could be obviously we need to sit down with the police department and determine what the need actually is and then come up with the costs associated with that and then we can kind of figure out to what extent do we want to offer that just like with our facade program we've got to set some parameters but we need to know what the need is first and kind of you know once we get the green light from the C we can all those details and then bring back a proposed program to you guys for discussion and consideration because I just I just want to make sure that it's a variety of things because I I'm in the area so I'm like I'm it's business building versus like a you know resent building versus like a bar versus like restaurant all those will have different things so if we do it I think if we're going to do it for the whole group should be for every business type in the area even the doctor's offices and what have you so you're going to do that that's make sure we're not just doing one demographic of safety I think right now the intent will be to again look at what the need is and offer some alternative um Solutions and and kind of lay it out in you know layers or tiers if you will um maybe starting with priorities and and working our way down um one thing that's going to be tough on this good Lu with it is having these funds go to incremental efforts as opposed to substituting pay the cost for existing required efforts so proba somewhere going be tough to find good luck with it but we're not least I'm not offering to pay everybody security all the time so you that line that's going to be tough so good luck you're right and those are the questions we need to answer is where where do we draw the line is there a funding cap is there just certain things that can be paid for and we'll be working out the details we're getting head nods that we want us to proceive and we'll go and do that all right sounds good items for discussion South parkk I call okay Mr D come name your your name and your address I pronounced it darker is okay so John dockerty my current address is 31544 Court I've been a resident of Jack Beach since 2008 I lived at Ocean's Edge for a number of years by a house right across from the park um I got the fire at my house and I took a look I'm a retired engineer so I like to measure things and uh the distance from the curb to the fence 13 and2 ft from the fence to the trees and there's 25 of them talking about shade it's another 5 ft the standard parking space is 8 12 by 18 ft so even if you put the parking at a 45° angle you need 15 ft from the curb to some point to fit that 45° angle you turn out the fence and you're damaging trees earlier was talking about trees for shade it would destroy the character of the par those by trees are Hardwoods the typical Florida Hardwoods that don't leave their loser leaves they provide plenty of shade for the people in the park um if there would be anything to be done it would be fixed the fence that's broken um and there are openings at each of the streets you could put pavers there and extend the fence so that people would not Park in the way of something with the stroll they trying to get into the park but um used to be 9 football at the park there were a lot of people parking along that area but it didn't really bother the neighbors I9 is over at Fletcher now so I haven't seen more than maybe five or six cars at any time in the time uh again because I'm  I to work I'm there every day I think the park is great I think it would ruin the character of the park add parking there um again I don't know how it would fit so I think it's not a good idea but I'd be happy to be on any kind of working groups if there would be an interest to do something with the park in terms of enhancements thank you thank you Mr thank you very much it's proof SP appreciate all your hard work for this whole group I live at 126 sou avenon South Jacksonville Beach Florida I've been here since 1994 um I was walking his neighborhood the other day and I was on hor in court and over about two and a half hours I knocked on a lot of doors spoke to a lot of people and I don't recall one person in favor of this um I think a lot of people too are caught off guard by it like we've been caught off guard by other projects that most people really had no idea what going on and trails and it seems like there's a pattern of ripping out old trees and putting down asphalt i' like I think I speak for more than myself when I say we like to keep a community feel here um what we need is more Parks not the overuse of existing Parks you youall were talking about an empty lot right there but I going put some swings on there and make it F rle where parents can take their kids and I'm not quite sure where this cut through is going to be some people said it was going to be on the South Beach Parkway some people indicated was going to be somewhere else I guess it were some kind of typo about getting this information out but um those roads were built by a developer way back in the day this man gave him his total education on the uh neighborhood guess it was planted in 1920 but those are very narrow and that Community is full of little kids if you have some kind of cut through there and more traffic going everywhere somebody's going to get hurt so I really ask you all to think about safety think about um the conflicts that arise there I'm sure some of you all remember there was a shooting there not so long ago and crime and shooting are are just getting out of control around here please don't do this thank you thank you Mr Frank good afternoon my name is Larry Frank I live at 3148 Colleen Court Jacksonville Beach um I want to reiterate all the how work that you guys do we really appreciate that but I too like everybody else in the neighborhood is totally against this uh for a number of reasons I'm not going to reiterate everything because I'm sure you already heard from the last meeting but I do want to say there are no sidewalks in our neighborhood at all none I have my two granddaughters who are three and a half and 6 months old here and it's challenging to walk them just 50 50 yards to the park and then the other thing is let's talk about the 51 spaces that's 51 cars but how often do they turn over if it turns over three times that's 150 cars coming into our neighborhood and that weren't there before so those are the points I wanted to make thank you for your time appreciate it and good luck thank you Mr park there good afternoon Steven Park I live on 3273 Horn Court uh at the end of the C sack on Horn Court right right off the park um once again yeah thank you for everything you guys do I know it's a lot of hard work I'm an engineer as well Transportation engineer so I understand what you guys do and thank you um I also spoke at the city council meeting last week there's a lot more people here I think a lot of people couldn't make this meeting with work and the time so um I'm happy I can hear be here and talk about it um similar to everybody else I I've talked through a lot of people in our neighborhood and I haven't talked to one person who's in favor of this I've talked to um Horn Court pul Pon St John's not one person I've talked to wants this so I really just say please don't move forward with it I can go give a bunch of reasons why not to do that I'll keep it brief um I need the three minutes so but I will keep it brief um the part like someone said is already oversaturated at peak times I mean I bring my daughter I I have two kids one on the way I'm actually going to the hospital after this got got one on the way um but I go to the park if you go on Saturday or Sunday you cannot even walk into the park I just I leave so why have more parking for people that can't fit in the park you know so I would highly suggest not add these these parking spots um there's a lot of different ways to spend that money that I find are better ways more shade more Parks let's add and help other parks in Jacksonville Beach add sidewalks like somebody said does have to be in our neighborhood but bigger wider sidewalks where you can throughout jackonville Beach um traffic I think it's going to be horrible just the more traffic coming into the neighborhood um like there's are the traffic's already bad people parking on the street just promoting people to come Park in those spots is not a good idea opening that opening into the parking lot I think is horrible I think people won't listen to it there's a lot of people that come from outside bville Beach Georgia uh all of North Florida and people aren't going to they're going to see those open 51 spots and they're going to cut through you're trying to make it an entrance only they're going to not abide by that I know that as a traffic engineer um why remove the green space like someone else said I mean we need more green space let's not take away the green space I think everybody in our neighborhood is okay with people parking there you know that are from that that live in Jacksonville Beach that pay taxes that we're okay with the neighborhood parking there you know golf carts parked there we're okay with that but to promote more parking asphalt concrete we'd rather just keep the grass in the trees we like the Green Space um and we also really think it's going to bring our property values down by adding parking lot nobody wants their house across the street from a parking lot so we're really concerned with that in all of our stre in that area I'll leave it at that I I could keep going but thank you for your time I appreciate it thank you hi Kathy H 16396 Street South um actually I want to talk to you about something else but I will add on to the park to the idea of the park here um I was people that helped to build that Park and I do attend City Council meetings and the discussion of increasing and expanding paid parking in the city has been up uh chief chief Smith is all for it um one idea is let's do paid parking at the park that way my tax dollar that pays for that Park and pays for parks and recreation um services and Personnel gets used by Jacksonville Beach people other people have to pay to use that part so but I what I would like to come here today was to talk about this sign on th and Beach okay yall deal with a huge broad spectrum of things some very large issues some very big projects but you also do with the plethora of minua as far as I can figure out okay and nowhere have I seen any issue with this sign that has not worked for at least a year and a half it is on Third and Beach people that come to the beach seat immediately it has not been working it could it's it's an eyesore the way it is it could be used as a safety deterrent you know it could be used as just a message from the city be kind be respectful um it could be used to announce meetings to get more resident involvement um it could be used to direct people you know and announce events that are coming um and I can't believe with the huge amount of money that you people deal with in your budget that you can't come up with $150 $200,000 to get that sign working than thank you Mr I am Angela bu it's 3116 St John's Boulevard Jack Beach um and I want to speak in opposition of the parking proposal St John's Boulevard didn't get any of the Flyers which I found interesting um it says only the immediately impacted people which were the side streets but St John's will obviously have the most traffic impact for those parking spots because people will come down St John's to get to those spots um but again I will Echo what everyone said our entire neighborhood is against us I haven't I also haven't SP to one person that's in favor of it so maybe asking us before putting the proposal out would be good um but I have two little ones I have a three-year-old and a 5-year-old and we're on St Jones Boulevard where people miss that turn off to go to the back of the park constantly and have to come down to the CAC and they whiz back by to like make their turn so we deal with flying cars down our street constantly going to those spots as it is if you add permanent parking I just can't even imagine like I'm terrified for my kids to play outside right now as it is I've already lodged a complaint with the um Police Department with the traffic Sergeant people go down our street so fast scary for as small as the street is and as small the community Rose as it should feel it doesn't feel like that feels like a race track sometimes between the delivery drivers and the people going to the park it's it's very concerning um but I just want to say that I don't think we have a parking issue at the park I think when the park is at capacity it's at capacity I'm sure that capacity was determined when the park was built and parking was established to meet that capacity so just just adding more people is not going to solve the problem we have a park problem in Jacksonville the fact that people are coming from the West Side from Noti from Georgia to come to our little Park is that's like a sign of a problem we have a park problem not a parking problem at South Beach Park we have a park problem in Jacksonville we shouldn't have to B like our Park shouldn't be burdened to facilitate parks for the entire city of Jacksonville it's the biggest land Mouse city in the United States we can't have one little Park servicing all the children in our city we need more parks that are just as great as South Beach so that those kids don't have to drive to the other side of town to go to the park we have school buses of kids from like Bay Meadows area coming to this park because there's nothing out Clos that's sad but that's not South Beach Park's problem that's Jackson's problem and I just want to lobby for more Parks more green spaces for kids they shouldn't all be packed like sardines into one little park there should be lots of places for kids to go and play and be kids and not have to be packed in there so I just want to say I'm absolutely against it I want to feel safe in our neighborhood yes my name is Deborah uselman I live at 3148 St John's Boulevard I've resided there since 2001 when I purchased my home so I've seen the whole evolution of South Beach Park everybody keeps talking about the parking and the number of people that come there to park but what about those of us who are residents and we pedestrian do we count I mean are we in those numbers of the capacity I used to walk my dogs there every morning I had three little ja was I only have one now and I never take him to the park anymore because of all of the population that's there it's extremely difficult everybody talks about the safety of the children I agree with that but what about the elderly population which I'm part of I'm 70 years old um you know if EMS if I had a heart attack and EMS needed to get to me down at the end of of St John's Parkway I'm out of luck right now there's a moving van and cars across the street from that there's not enough room for my vehicle to go through much less EMS and one of the reasons I moved there was because EMS in the fire station is right there it's not going to help our neighborhood I would suggest that you do a quality study how many people are in the park at any given time from Dust to Dawn how many cars are actually being used and how many vegan spots do you have a comment was made to me that there are activities there and when there's activities there's no parking well maybe you need to do more scheduling I was over the o403 for burns hospital I did scheduling for them if I can schedule a 60 capacity o suite and get a th000 cases done a day I think y'all can do a better job of scheduling so I would suggest you do some quality studies some productivity look at your numbers and you know besides just candas those of us in the neighborhood I don't go to that Park when there's any kind of activity because I know I'm not going to be able to use it and those little kids are running over my tiny na with their bikes with their soccer fields all the trash cans get moved to be used and it's just pitiful what it's become it's not friendly for our neighborhood anymore it's for everybody else and I do pay a lot of taxes and they' gone up a lot in the 20 years that I've lived here so please stop it thank you okay gu we open up for board discussion um yes we've got a few just kind of there was a staff memo attached um to your agenda packet and you know realistically there have been several conversations surrounding um kind of Spawn this was you know complaint and it came up several times in Council came up several times in C and so one of the things staff kind of wanted to try this time Council has been working with Communications manager on strategies and at what point in processes do those Communications go out and so um the few folks that did set up meetings and came in and talked with us you know um one Gan asked us okay so you know what about this and what about that we actually had a really good dialogue where we let them know you know we got an idea together and rather than wasting the resources of hiring engineers and Architects and all these you know and staff time and all these additional Personnel that would have to be involved to truly get these engineering drawings we started with this kind of phase one approach of okay here's an idea we want to solicit neighborhood response um that communication was set to kind of also be phase so starting right there with ones that face it and then slowly after those kind of expanded out obviously um this was a very hot topic rightfully so um staff heard the comments loud and clear as I think council did as well and so staff you know are seeking guidance from the agency on how to perceive in L of the feedback received but also you know we ful this needs to obviously PIV it um in a very different direction after hearing from the residents and that's kind of where staff and has gotten to on this so we're seeking your feedback on kind of what do you want to see us do next Mr chairman I'm going to take a moment and try to put this in perspective I think I'm I'm the person who brought this initially I believe to the has an issue um mainly because I go through that Park almost on a daily basis and there were days where there was parking such that there were no spaces available anymore for any cars there were um cars parked on landscape Islands throughout the uh throughout the park there were cars that were jumping curves and going from Horn Street on to the uh grass areas and parking in those and then they were parking in the uh area along Pon Avenue that um that you're all concerned about it was an issue that I saw that needed to be addressed in some way uh I didn't like the idea that cars were parking along ponds but what's the alternative for us how do we address the issue of uh nonconforming parking that was occurring down there and more cars down there than um the parking lots could hold the other day I was down there there were four buses parked in the U in the uh parking lot not allowing you couldn't get traffic going in either direction because the buses were there unloading 200 kids to go into theet playground so from my perspective it's we've got to take a holistic approach to this it's not just you know here we're going to parking spaces I'm not for putting in parking spaces that take out trees that's the last thing I want to do but what can we do with the existing parking to make some improvements that may add a few spaces we need to go back and take a look at well who are the users of this park and are those the groups that really should be using the part um apparently there was a football program or something along those lines that brought significant users particularly on weekends in the fall to the extent that you had more cars than were parking spaces including that along along ponts maybe we need to take a look at the users and determine what is the appropriate groups that can and should use the park I had thought of the same idea that maybe we ought to take a look at paid parking for the parking lot if we as residents can park for free downtown in the parking lots why not down at the park and those who come from other places should help support the um the the park itself and any improvements and things to that extent because you know the amount of use that this park is getting it's a huge maintenance challenge for all of us and the costs are going to continue to climb and trying to maintain it and we want to do that for our community but it's going to take a look it's going to require us to take a a real holistic approach to finding a solution solution that works for the Neighbors down there I don't live directly there I live across the street in Ocean c i I don't quite see it to the extent that you do on a daily basis but I have an appreciation for it and I want to make sure that we do this right but I think we need to think about how we're going to deal with it because it's gotten tough down there um more enforcement may be part of the answer too is making that uh making sure and what happens when a parking lot is full what is the program at that point is there something that we need to do that closes the park at that point I we we all need to sit down and have a conversation about this and I'm sorry it created such an uproar the way it got presented to you but um I think there are options for all of us and I think we just need to sit down and talk a little bit further and come up with the right solution so thank you for speak you need to speak yeah thank you Mr chair um I just wanted to let the audience know just really for y'all's benefit this is all the emails we got from the neighborhood and I just want to let you guys know that they've been distributed to every member of the CRA so you can let your neighbors know they have every single email that we've gotten from the city um I wanted to address Miss Hall's comment about the sign we know it's busted it's been busted um the technology is old and we actually have a meeting next Monday to talk about the path forward to get that fixed so fingers crossed we can update because it's not just the sign it's actually the technology that runs the sign that is so outdated we can't even use it so stay tuned that's hopefully coming soon um I've never spent much time in the park prior the last few weeks Tuesday Morning parking lot fill up while I was there at 1020 Sunday afternoon completely full the only area the park that does not seem to be utilized this time I mean almost fully utilized at almost any time is the sports field funny enough I saw a few folks doing Sprint exercise on one side haven't any using the sports field it's a huge CH property just to say um the other thing is almost all the speakers have talked about how dangerous the streets are um given the setbacks in The Yards I don't think sidewalks are a realistic possibility in that neighborhood they would be right people's front doors um however I have to live in a neighborhood that actually ban on street parking many years ago on Ocean Drive the concern waser access um Ocean Drive and many of the streets or Avenues I should say radiating to the west of it are no parking they were not originally no parking that was actually done by in consultation with the citizens by the city of jille beach because of the emergency vehicle issue just just saying it's something to think about controlling the parking that exists on those streets because I've heard over a dozen people say that when Park cars are on both sides walk down the street or cycle down the street forgetting where the cars may be coming from um so I just put that out there to think about um the other thing is paid parking you know the argument has always been that that caus a pusher or SP over effect um that's arguable one way or the other incremental parking would not cause a pushover spill or effect if it were paid parking there seems to be a large lot in the corner of aola and um South Beach Parkway next to the tennis court next to the I guess fire station there that's vac I'm going to make the Assumption wouldn't impact any traffic going anywhere okay the last thing uming the civility issue and the behavior issue in the park if we can't control the numbers there then we can do one thing we can put attendance there those attendance could be anywhere on the Continuum between Park attendance or some qu police presence those attendants could enforce the curent parking the parking could make sure there's no aggravation around the Pavilion can make sure the people are behaving themselves and could if necessary when everything's full CL the take at least two people per shift it wouldn't be cheap it be a longterm commitment of the CRA to the South Beach um area and to that Park but we could put people in there if they were not sworn they could have direct access to the police they could be able to call either who's on patrol in South Beach or call and they can have help there within minutes and seconds my experience Jack spe polies if is a problem they get there could be and I think two is probably the minimum number could be there when the Park is open they could control the flow in and out they control the parking they control the people they can report whenever they needed some backup help and I think that's a huge possibility because this place is grossly overz I don't see way to absolutely control that inside sort of democracy we supposedly have but we sure as he can put some people there to keep a tight hand on it and auth an issue they could not person deal with and I think that's something should consider so that's kind of where I'm at I mean that whole neighborhood is a c coming off Full Stop and that's very unusual in a space that that large but again the consequences of a lot of things that can be done would directly impact the C nature of the neighborhood the nature of neighborhood impacts what can or can't be done but putting people in there long way toward making this a more manageable controllable safe environment thank you very much prin um first off I'd like to say I completely hear everybody in the neighborhood my neighborhood also does not have sidewalks and we have an issue with people cutting through um our neighborhood just to get away from penmen and what have you so when that whole pend project comes up I'm expecting a nightmare myself so I do absolutely do hear you all that um I just want to point out a couple things that or maybe you get some clarification on some things um in relations to this project when it was brought up um I believe we had talked about um parking spaces on the main road that goes into the park and then extending a sidewalk through the backside to get into the Fieldhouse area from that road as well as by the water treatment space that's um goes by the fire station is that not correct because there are sidewalks that are going to be part of that plan already to move people from the main road into the park from the opposite direction of their neighborhood I want to say that's true because we talked about removing the fence and putting a whole pathway so I believe there's already sidewalks being built on that main Ro behind the park that goes right behind that big old fence and then goes into the back side of this parking area into the the field so that's supposed to bring the traffic through official channels not the road I believe that's what we talked about there there were two sidewalks added from Oola that's what you're talking those those are already there but it didn't increase any parking Jason any so we didn't includ any parking last okay um so we have at least 10 other parks in this city there's Tall Pines there's called that they're updating now um there's a whole bunch of there's ocean obviously but they bigger parts that can be designed just like this one all of which are not in our jurisdiction of the Year okay so it's really a city and I hate saying this it's really a city issue that they really need to look beyond our restriction they already started that process in my opinion by starting focusing and putting more attention on those but for solutions for this specifically if we have 10 other Parks um maybe there is a solution where if it is busy we use a sign or there's a couple spaces where people can scan a UR code says here Vis are our other Parks no parking visit some of our other parks and then have that in a map to where those other parks are because when we have our Urban Trails it's going to make this park even busier if no one knows where the on those are because all the locals will be using urb Trails or they'll be parking other other visitors will park other places and their bikes to so I think we really need to focus what we can do in our district is say hey glad you're here go somewhere else in ja Beach as bad as that sounds that's the only thing we as a jur in our jurisdiction can do so maybe we should look at some signage um that's easy to access from people in cars they can scan it and see where they can go if there's no parking and maybe we can then direct the conversation to what's available in those parts of people can SC see what's in them maybe it's part of our marketing thing with our guy who does a lot of marketing and get nice pictures and maybe um some funny in that way so there that's a solution there um I don't think that um adding parking is necessarily going to be um a solution I think it's going to exasperate it I think directing people to it is going to be away from it for a equally fun park or other experience um would be a solution I also don't know if um if P Parking is going to deter people because you have to have someone who monitors that and right now I don't know necessarily how that's done um but the other thing that I was thinking about is you know as much as we talk about regulating people who uses who use the park who don't use the park and technically the city of Jacksonville has a system out there that everyone should know about that they go reserve a pilion at the 8,000 parks in the city who actually knows about that unless you're doing it yourself I mean people show up for birthdays expecting to get a pavilion and they actually reserve it so then you have to calls you know the police department to get that done so I think maybe signage on our part for that would be a good thing too and every say you know do you want to reserve this space call this number maybe some signages are the best way that we can kind of bring that to other people's attention to redirect traffic without saying hey we don't want you here or hey you know there's no parking for you that's just my inst to you all's conversations is if we can find ways to deal with that um I know you have thing you want to talk about that before my next one go ahead um just that regarding The Pavilions I do know that Parks has done they've got signs up on all those Pavilions down there as well as in the Parks building itself and so they have a QR code so you can scan it Tak you directly to where you're able to reserve those so at least regarding The Pavilions Parks I feel does a really good job of regulating that and kind of keeping that in order as best as they realistically can keep that in order that's good that is true there's QR food one of those you can so if we had something like that that was in like in the parking area like hey there's no parking go visit these other nine parks and maybe have pictures where they can click and see with the park like oh this place has a tire so we must go there I might expand some of that exposure um but then some of the other things that were said um other than the sidewalks and stuff I mean the urban trail is going to be bringing going through that space so when um I look at this before I came so I apologize I'm pull on you guys' memory um I know it's going to go down the main drag and we come to the park from the um passive Park Rec creating near Jacksonville drive down the street does it turn up where we're presenting these parking spaces or does it go to the original entrance into the park in the urban Trails master plan aola and South Beach Parkway are identified as future Trail routes through this it would not right past this through here correct yeah okay so there was a speaker or maybe I read it I don't remember at this point about um the sensors no sidewalks in the area maybe extending out I think it was the first Speaker talking about the size of the spaces what have you um have we considered maybe if we just drop the parking extending the fence out and making it a a safer walkway into that way or maybe just have just be just be um like a um golf cart parking so you have smaller par sparking spaces for just golf carts and then have it the fence we have closer to the road so that people have a safer place to walk and remove all gas vehicles from it because then it would only be local people using those sides I would be I would be up for adding more that by protecting the Walkers by extending out the fence to protect those Walkers because there's no sidewalks especially if our Urban Trails doesn't go in that direction it does not yeah and I think the biggest thing that we heard again just from emails and then from the sit down meetings that we had I think we had four total that came to those um was really any kind of parking everyone was pretty much please do not touch that um the only things that we did here were potential sidewalk um people there were a few that were not against having sidewalk a few quite frankly said just put up no parking signs don't have anything there don't let anyone come here and then you can regulate it because if someone's there now you can call and say hey have this car tow and now we're able to really regulate that cuz right now it's just kind of the Wild West out there anyone can kind of get away with anything because there is no regulation of what goes on there um and another option was to kind of scooch the fence back have a sidewalk on one side and then adding bicycle racks um we heard from lot of people that are local like ride their bikes there but as it is right now there's not enough bike RS to accommodate when you have a really nice Saturday and the weather's great you want hop on your bike there's nowhere to go and then there were a couple of areas that just internally after all that feedback staff even looked at on the inside of where the park is now so not impeding anywhere to you know these residents um there were maybe some little pockets where we could add was be vehicle parking so you know your boat heads your golf carts things like that so that way when it is a really busy day you don't have you know some scooters taking up a full parking spot for AIC I would be in favor of making this whole thing with the trees and the Green Space um we'd have to find some way to make it very small so we might have to have some kind of Paving or pavers that made it very clear that it was for small vehicle or all EIC or bicycling especially if there's no connection through the urban Trails part of it and I think that the only way to actually decrease the popularity of the park um because you know kind of you see how busy is everyone wants to be a part of it is to direct them to other jewels in the town that they can do with their kids and I think then after we put some kind of sign or some kind of interactive face for them to do that um we encourage the city themselves city of Jacksonville city Jacksonville Beach to put some more money towards more Parks so we can get our advertising team to show that it's not just this one park in town right so my thoughts on this um you know I live close enough to be able to walk to this park my daughter goes there all the time we have a blank rule that says we don't go to this park on the weekends it's just too busy we add 20 spots we'll add 20 people if we add 50 spots we'll add 50 more people if we add 150 We'll add 150 more people we don't need more people in this part um don't need any more people in this park and you know to Gary's point about the buses you see them there all the time and that's not Jackson will be buses um I initially thought of PID parking as well it would be an instant solver of this but that doesn't stop a bus from dropping off 50 kids um and that's where the mass of people are coming is from the buses I don't know how you stop people dropping people off at a public par it's just not going to happen you know in review of everything I do not like the idea of putting parking on this residential Road that's outside the park that's going to drive more traffic down these roads um I just don't I really just don't want to add 50 parking clot because it's just going to make using the park even worse for me and I'm we want to um so I would you know the only thing I would really want to pursue is can we redesign the existing parking so it's more efficient we can existing parking if not oh well just just say no more I'll be in favor just no new no more parking any other comments about this Jason I'm going to put you on the spot here but um can you can you address it a little bit for you've heard a lot of comments this afternoon and um you know you and I have talked about it a little bit and i' you know be interested to perspective because you look at it from a whole different point of view than than the rest of us do well I mean you asking my personal opinion Mr P I'll tell you I think a lot of the problem was solved when I went away um and yeah I mean I agree with a lot of the arguments here that you know you put more parking spots you're going to get more people um you know I think if it were me I would look redesign some of the spots that are inside to see if we can get a few more parking spots but other than that it is what it is I mean we're not going to stop people from coming from across the ditch so it sounds it sounds like what we need to do is um look at it from a holistic standpoint and that is potentially if we can get a couple additional parking spaces within the park how do we control the users of within the to minimize the numbers so that we don't have large crowds like we do on certain weekends you already dealt with the football part of it and that may help quite a bit this fall um making making it no buses in the parking lot I mean it it's unfortunate but you know they they really created a problem there with the numbers of buses that are particularly in the last weeks that have been showing up there and then look at um you know no parking along constantly on Avenue no parking on Horn Street and help the neighborhood protect their areas because it is important that we maintain the strength and importance of the neighborhoods they support that park to a degree and and we need to make sure that in turn we support the neighborhoods well if I may Mr P you know I think what I've heard um here need to take a step back and like you say do a holistic approach and look at it um honestly we haven't done a surve to see the need for parking since anon's gone we've heard from the neighbors that they tell us since that's gone that really hasn't been a problem although there are some people that still park there when they're still parking available within the pop so it's not so much of a demand supply problem I don't think personally you know I think our problem in the park is really the people that come in with buses and things like that we don't um offer any um type of um deal where you can rate the field or anything it's on a first come first serve basis I think the playground itself is so popular that it draws people from you know all over the the county really and and that's the issue on the that and I curious is the I see where this okay so there's the water treatment that's back there so I was actually askl bring can you bring up the map so the only I'm asking this question is I don't know if this is the roundabout that's right there the park near the volleball are um I'm wondering if that space could be utilized for parking and there that we part of that section for Park that people be that corner there to I wonder if we can find a way toze that that could I don't know if we not the see how that part there that goes down that sidewalk there the section I mean that would be probably 10 parts one of the um interesting Alternatives that one of the residents came up with I think she's a um an engineer was to instead of make those um slanted parkings make them vertical and I think she said that by doing that we could probably get between to paring SP that's also where we have a sidewalk going correct the sidewalk yes is on the east side of the par what's that building I think that's a shed probably easy Mo no that's what I'm saying inside the park right down below that so so this whole thing is talking about people to par but we're also trying to protect the but we're also trying to you know direct people elsewhere but we're also trying to all these different things I mean if you want it from local people no one over the inter Coastal is coming on a golf cart okay no one coming on a golf cart so if you have spaces for golf carts in a way you're freeing up some gas vehicle parking by having parking somewhere you're taking it out of the neighborhood that whole Space right there you can just devel true and that adds at least more spots to the park not whatever par neighborh a safe for that to get into the park that way having come through the where all the cars come in have them come in through this little space and make that a safe way to get into the park off the street and that would be my opion that solu that is a solu but I still think the biggest solution is getting people go I thinks are nice easy unless the buses understand there's other places that can go and the only way to do that is by advertising it and we can't advertise it if you don't have it parking topic but again back to attendance and the park REM and our P practices foral fores and the CBD we certainly would be able to do that if we chose to and I think that could address several of the issues that over capacity brings along with it as far as having people Park properly closing the park when the parking is full maybe activating the signs that just referred to for referring people somewhere else folks one problem is if you reserve a pavilion somebody else turns up and out pavion you turn up your reserve it's got 15 people in when you get there so that's sort of thing that attendance in place could address and again not cheap it's fairly long term but I think it really can make the park a much better experience for all this users and it's just it's just a Step Beyond what we' doing reserve it resion how many people perion can have no I the hours they the amount of the amount of people I once went to a birthday party there where I had to drop off my are embracing like the beach life right there's no parking um I mean with all this said I mean it's I have yet to hear of a need for it um everybody's saying when it all the spaces are full the park is full so what do we need more spaces for um we talked about the P Parking right again unless that's going to reduce the number of non-residents coming over here and unless we have evidence of that that doesn't really make sense to do um you know I think it was um Angela I think it was that had said something that she and I sent you an email Taylor while we were sitting here that she is an affected property and didn't receive notice on St John's so um I know typically it's from statute or ordinance and it's regarding you know a certain distance or whatever the case may be but um it's a little right I mean there could be more people that would Echo what everybody's saying there could also be people that say I support this you know and I would would like to to hear from them but really are we in compliance do we have the right number of spaces for for the capacity of this park um I agree this is It's one park there needs to be more Parks we're not solving the problem here I think if may want to do something about the traffic patterns because all the concerns here were not we just don't like it atically it's not great everybody that stood up said we have a safety concern um I used to live on America Avenue and that's where everybody takes that road to get to so I get the whizzing by and I get all that so if there's still a safety concern even as it stands today I think it's we're obligated to do something about the traffic pattern and then I also think this flies a little bit in the face of what we're doing right embrace the beach life that includes walkability right isn't that why we're doing the urban trail so on bikes I think we need to have bikee racks let's talk about H carts that's that Echoes and is in the spirit of the beach but overall I think there's no demand there's no need at this moment thank you all right so what do we need from us nothing no more it's done um now you know obviously again this is not going to happen the way that it was originally discussed and so for everyone's concern unless city council directs us otherwise because ultim they have final say um but again everyone heard that discussion at the meeting um there will be a massive pivot um and really at this point I think what staff will need to do is sit down and kind of go over the options say okay you know for example option one is we do absolutely nothing leave it as it is don't touch anything you know Let it go leave it alone option two we add some bcks and if there's area to add golf cart parking okay we do that but we still leave the other side you know don't touch it um or maybe it's we add the LSD parking for the load Vehicles add some bcks and may we post no parking signs so then the people that live out there don't have to ever worry about parking and if parking does end up there they can then call and have someone's vehicle tow um so I think we will go back to the drawing board and staff talk internally um with Administration with police with Fire Marshall Parks um everyone that's involved in this process and just draft up a bunch of different options and a bunch of different ways that we can try to alleviate some of these concerns and a big one that I think was great talk what to come out today is you know signage Maps QR codes things that people can scan it's you know hey sorry we're full but look at these other Parks we have look at these other great spaces we have um and then we'll bring that back to you guys at some point over the next you know several weeks maybe the next month or two and just kind of talk about some options but um I think at this point the project as it was presented initially is I think I like the idea of signs to try to redirect them to other parts yeah I just don't think it's going to work this is popular because close to JTV it's easy to get from outside the city and to be honest I mean you know you guys really it's a blessing and a curse it's double EDG sword this part because it's CRA funded part and those are a different pot of money than your general fund dollars and CRA dollars have to be spent as in above and beyond way um for the Florida State statue this park is really phenomenal I mean it is amazing compared to every other Park and so we kind of yes we had this great Wi on this Great Park but now it just is too popular almost um and so we need to really rely on our internal team to really brainstorm some ways where where can we strengthen other areas within our districts how can we help to support the city to strengthen areas that need strengthening there and I think we really need to work together to come up with several different Alternatives that AR on this and the only other thing I'd ask you to do when you come up your proposals to talk to council or internally about is do you consider um where Urban Trails is having people pedestrians D into and maybe maybe the res of this neighborhood would be okay with it being utilizing this part of this as long as it's F and protected for people to take their bikes and walk into the park this way away from where the cars are going to be coming in that's the only thing if we're not I think that would be a solution that most people could jump on all right that's it we thank you everybody thank you for being here and