me Kevin I am making this announcement in compliance with the open public meeting act being chapter 231 Public Law 1975 laws of the state of New Jersey the planning board secretary has prepared a schedule of the meeting of the planning board of the burrow of kennworth for the year 2024 and has posted a true copy of this schedule on the bulletin board located at the front entrance of burrow Hall and has mailed the true copies of his of this schedule to the local Source The Star Ledger and is maintaining a copy of the schedule in Bur Hall accordingly the notice of requirements of the open public meeting act have been satisfied in regards to this meeting can we stand for the pledge of allegiance iedge of alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice all roll call please Mr perno here Mr David here Mr dundo Mr maio here Mr batti here Mr scary here Mr Callo Mr DeLuca here Mr dun here Mr pissi here okay is there a motion to approve the minutes of June 13 224 motion made by Mr Lucas seconded by Mr scad scary all in favor I I any Communications Wanda would this be Communications right here no that's for the file that's for the file for the uh application okay no Communications at this time no Communications okay okay we're going to move into resolution spranger residence uh application 24-1 Mr Rego this is an application that the board approved last month for uh property at 331 coolage Drive the applicant was uh proposed renovations to their house including a new covered front porch and and other res Renovations including the construction of a swimming pool there were uh a uh couple of relatively minor dimensional variances involved a rear yard setback for the the swimming pool mainly the board approved it and this is the memorializing resolution did the more board members have an opportunity to read the resolution is there anything in have resolution that you need changed or is it uh uh in order on the way we heard it that evening seems like it's good yeah I wasn't here so okay so you're not voting right I'm not voting either okay is there a motion to approve the resolution motion made by Mr Dunn second by Mr scary roll call please Mr pno yes Mr scary yes Mr DeLuca yes Mr Dunn yes Mr PL yes okay so so approved okay that's added away let me just move this so we are nice and tidy I'm going to give this back to you w okay the next is new business courtesy review application 24007 St Teresa's uh school for solar review who's here on behalf of St Teresa even good evening sir could you state your name and spell your last name John ble b y e r l y and if you could raise your right hand even though this isn't a hearing per se I just want to get you on the record uh with regard to this courtesy review do you swear that the comments and testimony you give shall be the truth I do okay thank you Mr Rego shall we uh swearing our professionals at this point let's do that for the evening uh Mr uh Mr O Conor and Mr quo are board planner and board engineer with regard to this matter and any other matter tonight we s your testimony shall be the truth thank you will under the name O'Brien not oh sorry oh jeez Irish you know what okay Mr chairman did you want me to introduce this application yes please thank you very much uh Mr chairman I know that this has been pulled in the past a courtesy review however it is not a courtesy review is limited to governmental bodies uh this is actually a uh minor site plan approval minor excuse me minor sight plan application minor sight plan is only available in certain circumstances when there are limited changes to a site uh minor site plan also means that there is no formal notice as in letters to neighbors or newspaper adverts taken out so this minor site plan application is in front of you for solar panels on the roof at St Teresa's and perhaps Mr barle can just tell us a little bit about uh the location what they look like and any impact if any on the join before before we go there could we find out who Mr yeah pronounce your name uh Bly Bly can we find out who you are what who you represent and what your function is before you go into that sure uh I'm with green energy Construction Consulting we were the uh developer and we're the install uh arm of the nework Catholic dasis is kind of trying to push solar for a lot of their parishes this will be the fifth one we're doing for Newark of a portfolio of six um worked in Canon dasis and Trenton dasis as well um okay but we got the gist now yeah thank you so we're applying for uh rooftop solar it's uh it's if you're familiar with the the site it's kind of a a horseshoe with Washington being the main entrance to the school it's on the left or or the The West Wing going up that just kind of a smaller array it's not not covering the entire roof about 308 panels it's 115 KW um we limited the size for the the service that's provided there by F utility and what what's going on inside the building so it's about 80% of the bill we trying to cover for them help them save money um kind of conform with what the dasis and the trying to go green so um if if you're I believe everyone has copies of what it should look like uh there's more detail on A2 and uh a three for back view side view above View kind of thing you're going to stand about 10 in off the roof there's no par wall around that side of the building so it only be visible if you were second floor kind of looking out the window on 27 Street uh side equip going to be in the courtyard uh PS is asking us to move the meter from the basement outside we're we're tending to put that on that same cour as well do you find Mr Bri that there going to be any impact upon joining uh buildings residents no there shouldn't be any impact we doing all of our our inside you think that there will be a uh substantial benefit to the community by the adding of solar power which is P for by the New Jersey uh is to the community yeah I think they call the ficial use help Financial stability the church school do you see any negative impact on this application not this project other than my report chairman iail question ask one question how many panels did you say were 138 uh 308 308 thank you 308 panels did I hear you say that your equipment was going to be in the parking lot uh there's a courtyard inside the school and the electric room is kind of on that say the bottom of the of the courtyard um southern end of the courtyard and it'll be right on that side right there okay how much room is that taking up uh there's going to be about 10 ft of wall space for equipment okay no impact of parking all right Chris uh any uh you answer my question about the equipment uh any um are there going to be any expension will be so paneling the future plan there's no plan [Music] for what you have anyone else well okay um so we don't have are you done you're okay so uh this is interesting I I I do have one other question if possible if this is I'm not buying Cofe all right um we are trying to have the construction done this summer before the kids get back uh um but I understand there's no meeting next month so that will push off to start would we would we would we be able to get a start on this and maybe have a contingent upon the final inspections and everything like that before we go down app Pike um what we're going to do is I asked uh my attorney here if we should be opening this up to the public and I would like to have an opportunity to open this up to the public before we can make those uh comments okay I make a motion to open the hearing to the public SEC seconded by made by Mr David second by Mr maio all in favor I does anyone from the public wish to speak on this matter only please step up up and state your name and address for the record Mr Herbert good evening everyone uh Bob Herbert 14 nor2 Street I just have two quick questions one do we know the height of the panels off the roof and does it meet our ordinance requirements and two regarding the equipment in the courtyard because we have so many small kids there is there any proposed protection that the kids won't be running in or we have access to those you know the outside power I think I'm going to ask Mr byley to step back up and answer that question both questions please all right um the first question about the height is uh the height off of the rooftop is I want to say 10 something Ines off the roof less than a foot um and then yeah in the courtyard we'd have a a fence in area Okay uh we have to keep it open for you guys to get in in case of emergency um but we lock up the disconnect some people like we usually put dis combination lock and if you guys have a fire box on school or anything like that put the combo in there or back a copy if you don't want the comos the fire box okay does that satisfy your question Mr Herbert yes thank you you're welcome anyone else from the public wishing to speak okay see and done I make a motion to close the public motion B by Mr David second second by Mr Mao all in favor I um is I mean I don't see anything here other than roof panels on the roof so is there a motion to approve this um application I would guess I'll make a motion to approve motion made by Mr Ladi seconded by Mr Mao roll call please Mr pno yes Mr David yes Mr Mao yes Mr L yes Mr scad yes Mr DeLuca yes Mr dun yes Mr pesi yes question this question about okay now the question about your uh getting started basically with something like this we our next meeting we would have a resolution to memorialize what's going on I would ask the attorney um to see if he could put that resolution together and with the blessing of the board and everyone else if he could expedite that so you can get yourself get started because we are sensitive to the children and we W would wouldn't want that work to go on while those kids are in the courtyard and things like that does the board agree with that yes I know I'm going to get some feedback but I can do a resolution within a day or two right but who's going to remoral so first of all let me ask you this question okay um Mr Bary how long does it how how long will it take you to get started uh the process about 3 and 1 half to 4 weeks okay um the main point we're trying to get to is the uh the tie in and we're going to have to shut down the school that's kind of the big thing is make sure that's done okay Kevin can we do a zoom to I'm sorry go ahead you could do a zoom uh you could also advise depending upon board feedback the applicant that uh he can proceed on his own at his own risk without the resolution being memorialized and the board could direct our secretary to advise the building department that there was no objection on the board's part um and that would allow the applicant to pursue the application the one legal technicality in all this is that without a memorialized resolution there is a chance for somebody having a lawsuit against the board and with the applicant I would feel much more I'm sorry there doesn't seem to be any comment this evening the odds of that are probably rather slim but part we've had that we've had precedent with that have done that in the past okay you don't feel that it would be a good idea to do a zoom to Memorial realiz that resolution and we may have the same challenges of getting people you know together I don't know I I it's up to the applicant to determine if they want to proceed in the second which again we have pres I I don't see it as an issue but I'm I'm either way I don't have anything plan for the rest Mr SC so we're not meeting in August is that correct or we we're not meeting in August and that's problem be able to do this till September have the project pretty much done by yeah unless you did assume chair next early next week or or I could do a resolution and get to Wanda the beginning of next week and maybe Wanda we won't have that memorialized but everything that we need will be in it and maybe W to reach out to whatever Department that they would need permits from and say Here's what we've done we can't Memorial on till September but the board is in favor of the applicant moving forward we'll memorialize if when we meet next um he'll be done by that time why why don't we just something up in the next two days we have a zoom meeting next week go we need is how many people on the zoom well if we have a meeting we're if we you have to notice notice okay 4 I mean in my mind emergency I don't see that I don't see we have prent like I said we've done this before it's not the first time we've ever done it and I think as Kevin stated the risk of someone coming forward and going to appeal it is very you know I always go um aside with that and uh if you could go either way Mr David I I have a another thought process you have 300 plus panels going up there you have equipment going out in the garage if it's not memorialized God forbid something happens just a crazy storm things are coming off the roof anything that could happen I would like to stand on the side that the board has done everything in their power it's a matter of a 20 minute Zoom call that we could all just latch on to it and get it done we're all in favor of it we want to see the school uh St Teresa's move forward so if if if the board doesn't mind I would like to see that happen yeah like I said I'm flexible either way I would just try to defend another meeting um when when would you think of a the zoom we only need you we need five people okay for a zoom meeting a quorum but but we need to notice it somehow that I'm such and such today or night we're going to have a zoom meeting to memorialize the resolution for the school so we have to we have to do that so not to take up too much more of the time tonight good catch not to take up uh too much more of the time tonight can we get back to um you with that through a email and say that this will this notice will go out on such and such a date so we can take a uh a poll on who's going to be available when in where Mr chairman I would think we should try to establish a particular date now now yeah okay yes maam chairman a few of us are going to be here next week on Wednesday afternoon at 5:00 uhuh yes for another discussion on another matter maybe we could pcking back on that and uh am I here for that yes sir oh yes I am okay 17th 5 yeah yeah and uh maybe we could establish a zoom meeting for that afternoon so everybody to stand by and we hear from Wanda Cathy who we have to put out tomorrow and send out an invite to everybody tomorrow so July 17th correct just throwing that out no that's that's good because some of us are going to be here to all right so I for one can be here who else what time is good what time is that Kevin the meeting starts at 5: you can't do this one before five so you have to do it afterwards seven we can't say immediate well I guess not well we can take a break okay how long this so we'll say uh so we would do it in person why don't we do 6:30 and that will cut that other meeting to aora right so so we're going to have an inperson meeting yeah there's a council meeting on night too though right I'm sorry 17th Wednesday yes when when did they meet what time 6 how long ours going to take we can do our in Chambers we can and it's going to be a longer one probably is there we need five minutes we need we need five minutes we don't have to meet in this room no we can meet in Chambers I'll have the resolution to W Monday W you can circulate it for 6:30 on Wednesday can we handle the notice because that's it's a 48 hour we send the notice to the papers those that mhm whether they or not is up to them okay so all I have to do is put it in the paper I don't have send it to the papers and post it on the door okay Monday I will post it in the paper Okay so is there something else we need to do with that do we need to to vote on that now that we're doing that or we just as long as we have five members we're you know we're okay you know no what I'm asking is do we need to vote on making 6:30 and the 17th special is there a motion that we will meet on July 17th at 6:30 for the resolution of St Teresa so moved by Mr David seconded by Mr maio roll call he just doing all all in favor all right all right we'll make sure we have enough of people here let's get to work and let's get some solar energy going appreciate thank you thank you have a good night thank you too all right let me clean up again wonder I'm going to give this all right right man where we cre hold on hold on if I don't move this it's not going to be okay green energy rooftop go over here okay okay application number 23-3 natc Donuts ink uh anyone here for that oh yeah now yeah so let's see how many we do have one two three just seven seven but Mr DeLuca has to leave at a quter to 8 lest I Stay is 8:15 I think you have to look now all we need is five okay yeah we have uh just a reminder since they're used for parents is involved here and we're a single board um class one mayor uh designate and class three cannot sit on this application or participate obiously go moral here and uh L Deo is not here's okay so we're good so we're we're sitting as a board of adjustments U all the procedures are the same when we get to the vote may not tonight floor is yours sir thank you uh good evening board memb Joe PaPeRo from porio on behalf of natc donuts pink uh this is an application involving property at 70577 Boulevard that's block 134 Lots one and two on the bur's tax map uh just before we begin I know um Mr Rego just confirmed that this board will be acting as a zoning board and how many eligible board members are in attendance Mr in attendance now or seven of us here and you need five but one may have to leave by qued to8 worst comes the worst I can always stay a little later 45 minutes or so so we do have 1 two three four five six seven so I got great okay you good with that I am thank you chairman okay uh so we are here for an application for preliminary and final site plan approval subdivision and es for the property at 705 717 Boulevard I'm sure everyone's familiar this is the Dunkin Donuts on the corner of North Michigan Avenue and the Boulevard and the uh shopping center next door um those are Parcels one and two um there are a number of variances that we're re requesting this evening you'll hear testimony on those uh these are existing separate Lots uh the Duncan is on one parcel and the shopping center is on a separate parcel uh the subdivision that we're requesting is to readjust those lot lines to accommodate the proposed Redevelopment the uh proposal is to replace the existing Duncan with a new modern and upgraded Duncan with a drive-thru uh and to demolish the existing retail shopping center and replace it with a multif family building consisting of seven units uh one of which will count towards the bur's affordable housing obligations uh those seven units will consist of six one-bedroom units and one three-bedroom unit it is the three-bedroom unit that will be the affordable unit in accordance with the state standards uh this site both Parcels are located in your BD that's the boulevard downtown district um we are here before this board acting as a zoning board for D1 use variances uh for the drive-thru component of the Dunkin Donuts and for the multif family building on the C Boulevard there are some related C variances and design waivers your professionals and Consultants have picked goes up in the reviews again we'll provide testimony this evening to address those to your satisfaction U this applicant and his family have operated the Dunkin Donuts in kennworth for over 50 years uh my client is here this evening to discuss their continued investment in the burough by updating and modernizing that Duncan um you'll also hear testimony about the struggles that the own the owner and applicant have had with that retail shopping center uh they've owned it for approximately 8 years and it is is BR men essentially vacant with one tenant which is a take out business um you're all familiar with the site you've seen the different commercial broker signs and the windows they've gone through a number of uh different commercial brokers to try to land a tenant and they have been unsuccessful and you'll hear why from our professionals this evening it's our position that repurposing that site uh for a multif family residential uh will result in a positive change that'll introduce pedestrian uh activity to the boulevard frequent the other existing businesses restaurants and services that the burough has to offer on the boulevard uh for Witnesses this evening I'm going to begin with our civil engineer Brett scaff finet prepared the plans before you um and since we have two separate mods two separate components here we're going to go through all the testimony for each witness Mr scaff says the civil engineer we'll talk first about the Duncan improvements and then pivot to the proposed multif family and every witness thereafter will follow so I just wanted to to give a little background as to how we intend on presenting this evening um we did receive the harbor Consultants review letter and the planning report from Mr O'Brien it's my understanding the police department issued a letter uh late today um I to leave our traffic consultant has it she's reviewing it we're prepared to address that when we get to the traffic testimony um I would like to just set the table a bit um this site is located on the Boulevard and M Avenue the county of Union has jurisdiction over those roadways we have a pending application with the county of Union they've made recommendations and you'll hear from our Witnesses this evening that the applicant has committed to follow those recommendations the most significant of which which I think May uh help go help to address the recent report from the traffic and police department is the applicant's commitment to restrict those driveways to right turnout I believe that is one of the uh safety concerns raised and that was a actually a recommendation of the county Union and we talked about this issue with as a group and the applicant is stipulating to restrict those arrivals to right turnout only um for that movement but again I don't want to testify you'll hear from our traffic expert and our Engineers uh regarding those aspects of the design um there's any preliminary questions I'm happy to entertain those chairman otherwise I would call Bret scapin as our first witness Joe uh yeah well uh you just lay out as a game plan who else you have here tonight may or may not reach them but just who you have and what their topics are going to be we'll do so Mr stet is the civil engineer he'll talk about the engineering aspects of the layouts both the duning and the multif family next we'll have Nick damore he's a representative of the applicant he and his family have operated this Dunkin Donuts for many years and they own the adjacent shopping center um we have U Mark Marcil our project architect who will address the multif family building we have Betsy Dolan who will come forward for traffic and then we'll conclude our presentation with our planner John mcdonal is John here okay okay thank you okay we could always come back to you Mr uh Joe okay Mr joke [Music] you want to turn that around go [Music] ahead I guess my question exibit I the exhibits that microphone over sure way I you through that's fine this will be here when you're ready if you could raise your right hand uh with regards to this matter do you swear testimony we about to give show me the truth I do state your name and SP your last name please sure first name is Brett last name is scap SK k a p i n e TZ scap thank you for the benefit of the board in the public can you give your education area of expertise and the license gos sure uh I have a bachelor science degree in civil engineering from R University ter license in state New Jersey and several States license is still current as well professional planner uh testified before probably over 100 boards in the state of New Jersey on various applications such as this and again your both licenses are currently they are correct chairman I would like to introduce Mr staff as an expert in the field of civil engineering and planning we're fine thank you thank you and Brett before you begin just for exhibits anything that was submitted to this board that has not been doctored or altered do not need mark But if you have something that's been render for the presentation just please don't provide any testimony on that so we can mark it for today's date and an exhibit number again if just refer to something that's in the board's pack [Music] I'm get wireless sure move up front so I I will start out with the uh boundary uh in to survey that was prepared by Dynamic survey for this product so this is in the packet it's not different and just for the record it's entitled down toog graphic survey the preparation date of October 2nd 2013 for the rision of 22323 and this defects the lotson question the parcel question so as described by Mr raro we're talking about the two Lots located at the southeast corner of uh Michigan and Boulevard Michigan's running on the left hand side Boulevard along the top of the page and that'll be the same through the rest of our exhibit as well uh it's two lots it's block 124 Lots one and two the Duncan is lot one the commercial building is lot two and it comprises of 0.46 Acres uh lot one is18 Acres of that total the balance 28 acres is the commercial uh to start out so I'll describe a little bit what's on the site and then I'll I'll talk about the subdivision uh we have the existing Dunkin building uh with the associated parking out in front building both buildings are situated push back towards the rear of the property um you have parking in front of both buildings uh the Duncan has two driveways one full movement driveway to the boulevard one right in right out driveway to Michigan and then for the commercial building there are two curb Cuts uh basically one large expansive Paving going across the front of the building and extending right to the curve line of the boulevard but there are two smaller Cuts in the curve line uh opening for traffic to move in and out um the Dunville is about 1,800 ft you have a a commercial building of about 8,700 ft um I'm sorry 88,200 ft uh that is there so our plan is to remove both of those buildings uh for the purposes of of uh the development um one thing to point out it's a little deceiving if you're out there one would think that the from the front of let's start with the commercial building that's really the one that's most impacted from the front door line or face of the building towards the curve that in a typical sense you would have a RightWay line that sits usually about 5T maybe 10 ft off the curve line well the RightWay line in the front of these two Parcels is actually 30 ft back from that curve line so the parking spaces that are actually in front of that commercial building today they actually extend into the RightWay so they're actually nonconforming right now so anybody that's actually pulling into that spot the back of their car is probably partially in the right away and as soon as they start backing up they're using the RightWay to be able to make their Maneuvers to get out and go um and as I'll talk to in the in the proposed condition we're removing that scenario from the equation um surrounding the property uh we do have uh commercial building to the rear residential uh properties begin uh just behind about the middle of lot two and extend to the east those are in the R5 Zone and we are in the BB Zone all util utilities and obviously the sidewalk the front that I'll talk to you further is going to be maintained um as this noted both rways are under the jurisdiction of the county and uh to repeat we do have a letter from the county noting some conditions that we're going to comply with um including uh the situation with respect to the configuration of the driveways uh one last thing to note this site under existing conditions is about 99% of perious coverage with the exception of a little bit of vegetation that's out on the corner of the parcel at the intersection uh the rest of the the building concrete or pavement and we're going to be improving that condition as well so to talk to the subdivision uh it's really only one line that we're proposing to move right now the the property line between Lots one and two sits just a couple feet off the Western face of the commercial building uh we're looking to shift that property line East so that lot one goes from8 Acres as I testified before to3 acres and the lot to the east that'll be uh result of the remaining portion will be16 AC lot two will be16 acres6 yeah 3 on the corner6 off to the [Music] East and right both of those plots are fully conforming to the Burrow's requirements there's no variance for lot Dimension size correct yes from a b standard standpoint fully Conformity we're meeting lot area we been making that shift uh and the way it stands now yeah the way it stands the way it stands now but obiously the in the proposed condition will conform but you did say you're saying it's conforming but earlier you said it's non conforming to the parking uh it was not so what's so what I'm talking we were just mentioning the setbacks from a dimensional standpoint just from a lot standpoint okay I got it just for clarification [Music] uh next exhibit really just a quick one um again for the purpose of maybe for the public uh just to understand where're we're talking this is the aerial map uh it's an aerial map exhibit the preparation date of 71124 so we Mark that A1 A1 it's very similar to the area map that's located should be sheet uh two in our site plan Set uh and this depicts the lot and with and surrounding uses in the middle is the parcel Lots one and two surrounded in yellow um M Michigan South Michigan Avenue running along the left hand side Kor along the top uh you can see the suround obvious commercial stretch along the boulevard to the East and the West residential to the South uh commercial obviously across the boulevard extending across the boulevard Next plan I have is uh the S plan rendering which is a colorized version of our site plan I'll mark this is not site plan set this is A2 what what is A2 uh A2 is entitled site plan rendering so this is basically a colorized version of the site plan which introduces the Landscaping into it as well uh basically colorized presentation this evening so if you're go to the site plan sheet uh just that closely resembles it and the other sheet to flip to would basically be the Landscaping plan sheet uh again this is just Landscaping has been Incorporated to the image colorized when you look at the colors the areas in uh the rust Orange would be the proposed buildings uh areas of green or obviously proposed green uh that is going to be introduced into the design areas in the black color is pavement and then you see the tan color those would be areas of concrete uh sidewalk driveway aprons uh that are either existing or proposed as part of the plan uh you see the areas of white striping that are on there as well so our proposal is to as I mentioned take down those two buildings we're going to reconfigure the lot line and then we're going to look to construct a brand new Duncan uh that is at 1,17 Square ft and then here is the residential building which is three stories uh basically two stories of living space above parking and some men or some uh office and uh vule uh entry space architect will go through in further detail on the lower level um they when we start with the Duncan uh again 11 1,17 ft uh I'll go with the driveways first uh the driveway currently and this is one other um positive the plan the dunan driveway right now is much closer to the intersection with Michigan on the boulevard the full movement driveway we're pushing it away from there we're going uh to about 55 ft from the intersection where right now it's about 20 ft from the corner so we're increasing it by about 35 ft uh pulling it away maintaining it uh showing it in the plan as a full movement driveway but as noted we're look we're going to be restricting the right turn movements out of that driveway the driveway that's to Michigan Avenue that is shown in the plan as a right turn only driveway uh we're getting rid of the inbound movement and why is that so what we're trying to do is we're introducing with the Duncan where there's no drive-thru now we're introducing the drive-thru and we need to deal with circulation in order to make that happen and the best way to do that is to configure it in this manner so to go through circulation for the Dunkin when you come if you were to enter into the site and that's entering and off the boulevard youve got a two-way driveway um as you first enter in that's 24 ft wide you typically see in any commercial use you would pull in and then you have essentially two options you can turn a sharp left to go into one of uh six parking spaces that are angled and facing towards the Boulevard or you can make a less of a sharp turn and pull into one of the two drive up Lanes uh for ordering that are in front of the Dunkey building um so if we were to start with the parking You' be able to pull in pull into one of those spots um pulling to those spots from there you can walk across the drive aisle and go to a vest ofle in the front of the building for either mobile order pickup uh or walking up and placing an order from there waiting and and picking it up and walking back to your car and leing from the standpoint of of going into the drive-thru Lanes you make that same movement you go in the drive through lanes and I'm sorry to go back once you're in your car you would back up and you would be able to leave out Michigan Avenue you make your right hand turn and leave from the standpoint of the drive-thru Lanes you have the ability to pull into either one of those Lanes place your order circulate around the building to where you would go to a pay window first a pick up window second and then circulate around in a c clockwise direction to either leave out towards the boulevard like driving straight towards that driveway or continuing back around almost a second time again around the building out to the Michigan Avenue driveway and make you're ready in turn and leave those Drive aisles these one-way aisles are 16 ft wide in front of the parking spaces they're a maximum of 12T wide uh as for the drive up lanes and they narrow down to 9 ft on the Eastern side of the building as you make the turn uh all adequate for the moov Turning uh Vehicles we have adequate uh curve radi cting radi for the movement of those vehicles to the I mentioned vehicular circulation pedestrian circulation we're obviously maintaining sidewalks along both fages there will be the Improvement of sidewalks particular along both where as needed um there is The Pedestrian sidewalks also being added a connection to the Duncan uh coming in off of the uh Boulevard you can walk up uh to the towards the a parking space which is one of the six parking spaces uh then cross across the drive aisles and go into the building um there are also uh sidewalks obviously leading out across to the residential um but I'll stick with the dumping just for a moment before I skip to that um utilitywise all utilities are present obviously and will be reconnected to the building from a lighting standpoint for the Duncan uh there are new a light fix there's three area light fixtures those on poles with on with a head on the top of the pole uh light fixture they are 15 ft High there are LED fixtures uh there are uh three uh building mounted uh lights that are also s five down pictures and uh there will be six uh wall mounted pictures on the Duncan um providing adequate light obviously for the customers both uh for entering into the driveway for parking and circulation areas on all sides of the building as well Landscaping uh when you talk about Landscaping the impervious coverage for this site obviously is going to go down uh we are not there's about 99% impervious coverage as I mentioned before uh we're going to be bringing that down uh between the two sites uh to about 82% so it's a significant decrease about 17% between the two sites uh that allows us most over more management perspective uh we that's obviously an improvement but also incorporates a lot more green space uh you can see that through incorporation of a lot of uh several trees there are four uh trees that are being planted on the site about 180 shrubs and about 100 um maybe 50 additional plantings for a total 353 plants introduced whereas right now again to go back there's only what's on the small part of the corner of the site and to note too that's not including what's in the right way if you go in front of the commercial building today as I mentioned there's that expansive parking the parking that extends into the RightWay right now that's all asphalt from the front of the building out to the curve line uh when we reconfigure this we're now introducing more green to the right of way as well and that's all along the boulevard all along the yep um since we are decreasing the amount of runoff for the introduction of more green here our storm water management system uh isn't as robust as you would uh normally see in an application that would trigger storm water rules as a board May SE in the past uh this is only a46 acre parcel as well uh but the reduction uh we're doing is we're introducing some new inlets some piping to recharge storm water uh both both on the Duncan site as well as on a portion of the residential site um from that piping uh there is an inlet towards the driveway at the end of the driveway for the Duncan uh which we would call a bubbler Inlet any water that's not infiltrating into the ground would basically Bubble Up and discharge out the driveway onto the boulevard much like it's doing today basically any runoff that's coming off that Duncan or it's coming off the commercial uh site is sheep flowing from the uh South I call the South West Corner uh heading towards the northeast corner basically heading out towards the boulevard hitting the gut line and running down the street so essentially what will happen is any water doesn't infiltrate into the ground and those pipes that we introduce will go out that way I do want to go back uh briefly to parking just for a couple things that I did miss uh on the with respect to the dunin uh there is an EV ready space that is also being proposed so of the six parking spaces you have one uh Ada accessibles parking space which is the one on the furthest to the east the one parking space that's closest to Michigan that is going to be an EV ready space um it will not be a charger put in there right away just basically make ready uh for that to be put in in the future and the parking is fully compliant with the bar requirements yes it is we require the code requires four parking spaces and we're providing six and they also meet the requirement for size at 9.9 ft by 18 ft I'm going to shift over to the retail or start to a residential just before you do we spend a little bit more time on a drivethru I know absolutely that's going a traffic engine going to come up and get a little bit more granular on the drivethru but your firm has designed this is a double lane drive through correct that's correct and and Mr dmore will talk in more detail operationally how that will work for dunin your plan has how many cars available in the 12 so in your professional opinion is that below standard meeting standard above standard it's above standard from what we've seen so and just to explain to the board and the public what what that means that you can fit how many vehicles in those two lanes before they uh impact and drive aisles well what you can do it's 12 cars including from initial pullup to the order and extending all the way around to the pickup window would be 12 cars and that's standard so there's there's 12 cars in that lane uh there is a little bit of room behind those 12 so technically without impacting traffic you might be able to squeeze one or two more in there but for general purposes it's 12 and one component that's in this proposal that many other drive-throughs don't have to my to my knowledge you can confirm there is a hatched area that your firm is included in front of the building at the request of the Duncan operator can you just again the Duncan operator will explain operationally how that works but what is that hatched area for yeah and that hatched area is off on the Eastern side of the building and essentially it's pickup area um where a car can basically stage itself after going through the dri through Lane and the client can describe it further basically if the order is not ready and it's holding up the line they can pull out and they can basically put themselves there and water can be walked up that'll allow the line to continue back mrar can I ask uh Mr SCA an SCA I can't get Smith right but I don't know how I did that so I do see the Q and I do see the 12 and I do see that let's talk about um car number one he's coming out of the Queue at that point he's he's paid and he's moving he's paid he's right here at the last window and he moving correct so now you have an early morning Rush on kennworth Boulevard and I'm looking at cars 11 and 12 as they start to back up in that queue I don't see cars there for the obvious reason but you could probably only fit another two maybe three cars there without having some type of congestion so now we're moving these cars out if there's a hold up now at the queue or at the window you don't you wouldn't agree that the traffic is going to start to back up along the bullet if there was an extension of cars obious that's an obvious yes if there if it did back up there but that's an operational question all toer to my client with respect to how this operates and how there is how quickly they get through the order to prevent that okay so they I guess operations will explain how fast an order usually gets out based on the experience and how quickly these cars will come out of a que yes cuz there seems to be a little bit of congestion at the entrance and eress we could we could discuss that further we'll have the operations T address that you can if you'd like if you want to move to the mul family portion of the application now I'll go to the mul family portion you please submit that new exhibit to MDI electronically for distribution sure thank you very much so not as much going on here from a site perspective here we have the building uh situated on the lawn um with uh a little bit of of space around the uh Eastern uh Western Southern uh faces or sides of the building um but to go through it we have a two-way driveway U as well to uh in and out access that's the second driveway on to the east right in front of the building um Vehicles will be able to pull in um intention is to have that uh gated uh you would be able to then personally be able to get in or out with respect to with a fob uh or a card uh go into that underground area of parking to which there are 12 parking spaces uh that do meet code again 9 by8 parking spaces uh the 12 meets code uh if you look at rsis as well as your town code for parking they both both require 13 parking spaces but we are providing the EV stalls in here as well there are two EV stalls at the very end of the two parking rows underneath that building uh that qualifies when you go through the calculations we're able to qualify those two basically count as one additional parking space uh we basically get a credit of one additional parking space for those two EVS so we require really only 12 and we have 12 here in the plan so that complies uh the again going back to the I'll stick with the two EV parking spaces I not they noted that they were at the end of the parking RADS uh those two stalls however are outside the footprint of the building so they're exposed to open air uh underneath those two stalls will be pavers basically to allow storm water if it was falling on those two those pave area or that P area to infiltrate into the ground as I mentioned before both sides have infiltration going on here from a storm water standpoint um any other water that doesn't infiltrate into the ground is directed uh through braiding underneath the building so basically the the setting of of the pavement allows water machine flow out the driveway out to the bulard again utilities are existing as well from a lighting standpoint there really there are no light hole fixtures uh building lighting uh you will see there's one fixture in our plan at the very front of the building towards the sidewalk um there are lights for the parking but they're in the ceiling uh so again picture driving underneath the building and you got a ceiling above you there are lights underneath there which were not modeled uh but it's a light to uh provide safety for that area uh Landscaping there's a little bit of landscaping that is provided around the perimeter of the building uh and again going back to the existing condition right now you basically have a condition where it's payment concrete building right so we're including that theid of that lot I have another question that one Ada space underneath meets the requirement uh we actually have two Ada parking spaces underneath so yeah require 1.3 where's the second one am I missing it I see one on the left side by the three there's there's two uh want both on other side of the aisle are e ready no oh I think you said Ada oh Ada I'm sorry I'm sorry Ada yes Ada we're compliant we need one and that that one paring space is located in the I see it okay so one meets the requirements one meets the sorry I heard speaking of the E the idea to keep them outside of the garage that was a recommendation of the thow garage correct that was correct and that's a fire department standard fire department for space when possible keep them out of the garage outside so was that EV proposed at a later date but you're putting it there now we're making them EV ready so basically what it is is Conduit is run to those locations we don't have to go dig up those to be able to put the run the conduit ultimately to those to feed the Chargers that would be put in that location uh so that's done and you know that way in a future date wires will be run through the charger that's and the reason you're not putting them in now I you want to answer that chairman the statute for the electric vehicles in the state of Jersey allows them to be phc in over time there's a time frame where certain percentage have to be installed at Co and certain percentage have to be installed subsequent um so it's a phasing in program that the state has first statute so this project correct if I'm wrong requires the ones that are proposed to be made make ready and they'll be phased in at whatever the statutory Department in one of our other uh applicants that were before us they too were bringing the uh EV stations outside primarily because of fire and how to get these um things how to get them to be put out so uh I'm happy to see that they're outside the building rather than underneath the building one other point I just want to make sure we don't forget it uh there was a recommendation about fencing and there's existing fencing that's in state of disrepair and you speak to that recommendation yeah I was going to get that when we got to the review letters uh but particularly along the southernly property line so uh running from the southeast the southwest corner of at Michigan um running along the commercial building and running continuing along running along the back of lot two along the residential there's uh chain link fencing some bar wire on it so it's really not screened screen screening type fencing uh we didn't propose anything there we did propose Landscaping so we have a strip of you can see the green plantings along that both the the back of the Duncan as well as the back of the uh residential but uh we read the comments and we're introduce a 5 foot high solid fence there as well provide solid screening in L of just that chaining F that's existing there 5T what is the size square foot itself of the the residential building so the footprint remember it's multiple Story the footprint is [Music] 5,000 uh 5340 ft one thing that I didn't touch on and this just touches a little bit into the operations I just want also let you know that uh also on the plan we have a trash enclosure starting with Duncan uh so there's a 10x20 trash en closure there uh it has landscaping around it we believe we're meeting the requirement having uh 5 to 6' High plants on either side of it uh it will have a solid fence around it as well we'll ensure that that's noted in the plans um that will be picked up private caller three times a day three times a week three times a week wow that's a lot three times a week that's where the donuts go right three times a week um and typically off hours as well um speaking of hours we're talking at hours for the dunan of 4:30 in the morning to 10: p.m. at night and so during off hours to do we would have that so it doesn't interfere with traffic um loading for the dunan as well going to happen off hours not expecting any semi semi-trailers or larger Vehicles looking at a box truck probably about 20t in length coming in here again off hours not to impact operations there's one other I'm sorry I know I'm jumping around a little bit but the Duncan there is a proposal for a monument sign that requires relief yep that I was going to just I'll touch on that signs uh last once I get to the residential so I'm going move for the residential with respect to loading unloading um some questions with the Doge to that um first garbage uh there is a garbage collection Point architect can talk look about it more detail in the northeast corner as you look at this plan but they're facing it from Boulevard off to the left hand side uh that allows the residents to put in their trash into various containers that will be within that room and those containers can then either be wheeled out to the street for pickup or they could be picked up by the garbage company who can go in and grab the containers and pull out fill the truck uh depending on how how it's worked out with the private hauler uh again looking to do this in all hours um there's also a question about loading or unloading with respect to maybe the residents going in to for the residents looking to move into the building uh I talked about that 30 foot wide length area that we have between the building and the Cur um it's pretty ideal for a truck to be able to situate itself one of one of the lanes I have both an inbound Lane and an outbound Lane so I got enough width where it could be managed to have a truck sit there allow all material to get unloaded if the truck is not high enough to fit underneath the parking and this is only in that situation uh where a truck can be able to unload a material and then uh leave if the truck is low enough to be able to fit underneath and the clearance is there is 9 ft uh from the ground level to the up top of the opening uh if it is able to get in there it's a smaller van it obviously can be coordinated for spaces to be utilized uh to be able to move material in that in discussions with the applicant this building will be managed by proper company that's correct and those types of move in move out procedures that you describe will be coordinated through the management company to ensure there's no impact that's right and that's the same thing with the parking spaces the parking spaces are going to be designated spaces for the tenants so the said tenant is looking to then that parking space te be utilized to manuver you know unload or load vehicles uh that situation and we're talking about a total of seven total seven I have another question for you you may have asked uh explained this already but in that trash room I see a set of double doors from the uh Kenworth Boulevard side and then there's a Mand door that also goes in there did you say that the trash would be brought out those double doors or the overhead doors oh through the front door the do Facing The Bu The Double the double doors not the overhead door where the car is Comm in right correct so they would be typical garbage cans what have you and then the uh the maintenance people there or whatever you have would take those cans out on the respective days and they would then be located outside or they would meet the garbage company can it could be coordinated ideally to be able to get it out there before the garbage company's G you know out there I'm assuming there probably will be a period of time where they're out and then manage management company as soon as it's picked up bring those back in so uh I have a question in regards to what's your solution as far as existing grading right now the site is basically two different elevations um are you planning on keeping it level or are you putting wall keep it level import clean fill into the ra site up on site two uh I don't know exactly where the field numbers are stand right now but we're basically looking to we're matching all the elevat Dy along the perimeter and as we come up to the back we don't require a retaining wall along the rear so we're going to be within a foot or two a foot or so half elevation range to yeah don't the difference if you look in the back grading plan if you look at the center of the Duncan uh there's about a foot rise in that but we're using the landscape Island to do that the second part of that question is is affecting residents behind you with the elevation change how how you back there meaning I don't want run off going back into resident's home right what I'm saying of course no and actually we're we're not that that is absolutely not the case every any drop of water that's sitting on this site is being pushed out toward the B no there's no run off that is going to hit and flow back towards the okay thank signage sure so uh Mr repo did uh start question me about the ID sign so we do have a proposed ID sign for Duncan it is at the in the island uh at the entrance exit so the boulevard so and when you're pulling in it's right your right hand side there's a light pole there as well it's a 5 foot high Monument sign uh so is 5 foot high off the ground deep uh and it is 17.75 square ft in area uh have a basically Bas three base and then the sign will say up drivethru that is the only ID sign out front and then there's an array of building on signs and I'll let our architect go through those in a little bit more detail on three sides of the dunking building the Residential Building does not have an i a monum sign or a freestanding sign up front uh it has just a single sign if you look at the uh elevations uh for the building number up front and there's a detail of that dun sign in your PL that was [Music] sub she 15 I believe 15 [Music] did you want to hit the review letter I know there spoken to a number of the issues already so har so I'll refer to the harbor Consultants July 3rd 2024 letter to the board just give me a second S I just want to get the [Music] okay so I'll turn to page two uh the first page is the top of the second for just uh information Rel to the application uh so it's starting with site plan uh number one I don't want to Ste my client Thunder I still a little bit already uh but uh get some testimony on the operations 4:30 to 10 is the hours uh the deliveries uh will be essentially once per week for the box truck to come in uh garbage will be three times a week again both of those g off hours uh numbers two three and four uh are basically informational comments number five I will uh defer to our traffic U consultant stolen to go through that one on number six I will defer my client it's an operational question with regards to the walk up window I'll turn to page three number seven um what I'll do is if we can agree really with most of these comments um I'll just address ones that really I think require any of my testimony is that okay otherwise we're it's either informational or over accepting them so the first one would be number eight and uh I recently just brought this up this is regarding the adequacy of screening between the rear of the multif family building and lot 20 so that's the comment regards to the fence and we're going to introduce which is not on this plan the 5ft solid fence uh to enance that problem in addition to the landscape strip that we have back there the next comment would be under grading and drainage this would be number five uh and it's talking about testimony regarding the underdrain system um and we don't have an underdrain system underneath the Beavers that we expect water to try once it hits the surface to infiltrate through the gaps of those papers uh we didn't do any sols testing but we intend to do some additional sols testing both for that area and for where the pipings can be placed on the dunin site that we also are looking for infiltration and we'll provide those as a condition to uh go to Harbor for review and that really is number six which is the fact that we will provide those soil dos we'll agree to do that uh the remaining comments on three we are agreeable to [Music] uh next page number four under lighting so number one uh is a is a statement regarding the two EV spaces and the fact that there's no areial lights over there however there will be lights underne on the building so on the ceiling of the building and those parking spaces are right outside of that so there will be light that will come from those fixtures that will shed light on those cars we just didn't model those but we can uh as part of a a condition to get those show what that the lighting will be effective for those two STS uh really that's the same thing for number two we we didn't model the ceiling life but we will do so um number three I'll save for my client to talk about um testimony regarding the time oh actually you know what uh we can set those on a timer so the lights are on the dunk we can set on timer uh so that way again after 10 p.m. uh they might go a little bit later than 10 p.m. because workers once it shuts down workers are there uh but we can set them off so they off uh shortly thereafter uh number four I'll say for my client to talk about uh security measures um next comment number one under traffic I'll see for Miss Dolan then uh number two I provided testimony about already the driveway configuration changes number three under traffic uh we did not uh we're not obstructing any sight distance I can put testimony on this Dawn can further testify to this that we do have site triangles uh both are in the plan and then the Landscaping there going to impact that we're making sure we have Clear Sight lines at all the driveways number four and five I believe you spoke that was delivery and recycling right I did both of those uh number six uh we will seek approval from the fire and police I know we got a n out today for police and do going go and talk to that uh the miscellaneous at the very bottom of page four uh we have pending reviews at Union County the C Conservation District on the rway valley we submitted and we were okay by then in October um and uh obviously the uh building department and PS uh will do subject to approval and no problem with [Music] number under traffic number one there was a statement um and you I believe you already spoke to this because the existing parking spaces in front of the retail Shopping Center or in partially in the right way do you concur with the board Engineers off obervation that anyone that uses those space is essentially backing out into the boulevard yeah and in fact when they're parked there they might be in the Boulevard and there anything in the planning report that requires a response from an engineering standpoint or we defer that the plan Mr Mr O'Brien is there anything from Mr St no I'll say that I think I already touched on some of them regarding the bul requirement variances and some of the of the efforts we're making uh that are not in the plan by doing 5ot high fence we adding in uh we are also we do have this we're going to have a solid barrier around the trash area and testified to that as well as the the 4 foot high minimum screening of plants to either side of that where we where we have the planting areas how about snow removal mrri a question about snow removal yes uh with regards to the snow removal so at this point there are there are limited areas of snow obviously it's not really not any different than it is out there today so ideally what's ended up happening happening is is that there will be a contract with a company to basically remove and take the snow off the sale is there no proposal to short anywhere on the site no there's really no area to do so that wouldn't impact parking or circulation so [Music] then again we'll leave the police report uh to miss Dolan um chairman I have nothing further on direct for Mr okay Mr uh David yeah what page did you say the sign was on it's on the site plan number four Mr David it's right here the detail the middle it's right here oh the detail is 15 and it's all the way on the left cor there is sorry you have another question no that it I have a question about the lighting I don't you kind of touched over by the uh where the EV parking is and you said that's going to be at a l be but he did say you would probably have a mask there you did not going have M there's no poles there so we're going to be we need to recognize obviously we have the residential that's behind there the home so we got to we want to provide some light to there but we don't want to provide uh pictures either on the building facing towards those spaces or light poles that obviously definitely impact the residence that was one clarification so this building the parking spaces that are underneath the building yeah remember there's a ceiling just like this above them and there will be essentially we call it high hats like the ones above you the above you that'll be embedded in that ceiling and it'll be that light that'll shine on the parking spaces here and there will be a little bit of spread from those lights that'll be hitting those parking spaces in that so my concern was the neighbors I thought you said that there would be some type of uh conduit there or a Mass for later use and I didn't know if you were going to attach a light to that no the only for later use that I think I might have talked to in those two spots was the conduit that's being run for the electrical lines for the eting charger okay for the later use for the later use okay thank you will those lights be recessed rather than these which below no recess yes will the subdivision be uh by plan right uh should be by d a simple subdivision yeah was there any uh um discussion about providing any GRE Ro for the mul family GRE for the U the residential gr yes and lastly aside from the directional terms uh for the from the county was there any other comments that they made that um your any provisions are you're incorporating into the no there's some comments regarding details and how to build a curve and sidewalk but really the main one was respect to the the driveway configurations that were also police go ahead so now now that I've seen the sign did you say that that the size was 5 by 17 no it's 17.75 Square ft oh 7 okay Square ft okay so what's the actual dimensions 5T high and then what's the length um it's going to be three and change I don't have to off my head I pull the detail it should be on that detail yeah it's it's not sit here and calculate prefer you oh so it's actually going to be high and N yeah it's probably going to be 3' 6 by [Music] 5'2 is there any more questions yes Mr dun I got a three questions for how how will the turns be restricted not supposed to be making a left hand turn there's through sign we need design the driveways the two driveways in cworth uh we'll work that out with the county uh it's either going to be through signage or just change of the change of the driveway you know as far as a channelization of the driveway for the right turnout I guess my com would be if there's no no nothing to actually direct people to only make a right hand turn they're going to make going to issues and then I see follow on there can you tell me why they loc where they are uh you said Ballers yeah Ballers I see on the on on the Bev the corner you want site plan then yeah yeah site four ball I think they're already there actually there are ballers that are [Music] located the are you talking just be to the west of the building the dun building on the corner of the looks like there's a West box there yeah so that's actually so I can talk to that that's a generator so this this the box that is immedately to the if you're looking at the I'm talking the street is that a traffic light yeah and has over are to are to stop any vehicles that accidentally put Drive instead of reverse going into that well right that's all in the county right away though so that's not part that's existing that that's not part of our plan so yeah and then one last question have you're saying run cond for two electric vehicle parking spaces right my understanding is that by 2035 we're Banning new gas vehicles uh so I wonder if it's you know in theory in 10 years or 20 years there could be no internal engine Vehicles paring there um so I wonder if be beneficial to consider setting it up to possibly have all elri Char station that really we're following the regulations that were set by the state of New Jersey with respect to these EV stalls which really only requires us to divide what we were doing in this plan so David yeah Mr dun's point about the signs for you know the the turns um I think now and I I heard the the case for when the existing dunin donence was approved however many years ago that and as you come in off of Michigan there's like a little triangle that the board required the owner to put in to try and direct so you come in off of Michigan and then the other side of the triangle directs you to make the right turn however anybody who goes there knows you just drive over that and make the left turn an elevated medal curve yeah yeah but again that was put there during that hearing to spefic specifically try to direct the traffic into the you know into Dunkin Donuts and then out of dunin donuts to the right and yet people don't comply with that because it's not enough of a um you know deterrent for making the left so to Mr dun's point something needs to be done to not just signs to direct traffic to the right and something more than what's there now yeah no look noted um and we will coordinate that with the county yeah Court still has to prove it and can have conditions on it as well so the fact that the county might approve it doesn't mean affordable no yeah right but no completely agree with you uh and but the design ultimately would need to be approved by the county in their right way the other part too is it would be in consult actually with the fire too in Gent because it needs to be mountable for emergency vehicles that have larger turning radi to be able to get in that's why it's notable so we need to make sure that that is uh adequate for them as well sure a Channel Drive erress is is not um unheard of I mean it it can work yeah no and you go on 22 I mean every almost every establishment there has they're trying to direct you make you know don't go the wrong direction 22 they're called pork chops and far Department H but you keep them low enough you got you got to provide access yeah that makes sense long way whatever way they're coming right okay there any other questions um for Mr scap FDIC connection for MTI family uh what was your question I couldn't hear you Mr F okay okay we're good here we could always ask more questions when we hear more M generat thank you [Music] no we have to get do all his all his testimony before we go to the public right yeah [Music] [Music] [Music] oh thank you thank you I got you I appreciate it way [Music] so Mr paparo uh Mr Duca got some time so he's going to stay to make it work appr thank you okay chairman if we're ready to proceed I'd like to call Nicholas deamore representative of Duncan and property owner who's going to provide the operational testim D okay so why don't you come on up with the sway you in and um this one yeah we have to swear you in get your name address for the record raise your right hand please with regard to this matter do you s the testimony you're about to hear show you the truth yeah state by your last name please uh Nicholas D apostrophe capital a n o r e any moreor okay is it preferable to use the two mics or I can't hear you sir ju is it preferable to use one M or the two I'd rather two I'll Stand okay okay uh Nick what is your position with uh natc donuts with the natc donuts I am a COO responsible for all operations U we run 20 locations in the Union in middlex county and we're very thankful for being cward we've been here for a long time we're thankful to have you guys and I noted in my opening that your family has operated this Duncan for over 50 years is that correct yes it was our first location and how long have you been working for the company uh I've been working for the company since I've been born but uh probably six seven years okay and you oversee the day-to-day operations not just of this store but uh yes of all of all 20 we have 400 great employees and they're also thankful to be work with C the current dunan um can you just well let's let's talk about the proposal and I'll come back to what's there today what is the desire of your company to uh to replace what's there with the new proposed Duncan so with the new proposed Duncan uh I believe it'll kind of help the site move better and it'll give it kind of an update refresh look we've been operating drive-throughs for 5 six years now and side by side drive-throughs for two years uh and were well practiced I mean I've spent a year a year and a half studying it I've spent hours meeting with the person that's designed it for the entire country uh and I can get more into depth with this specific um I guess procedure it's called Omni if you guys would like to yeah let's talk about because the double stack or the double Lane Drive there I think is an important feature explain to to the board in the public what's the benefit of having the Double L and the double it has too many correct uh yes to two menu boards uh I can go into much depth I'll try and be as concise and clear as I can but two menu boards uh pay and pickup window as re was saying and it's really designed just to have more flow we have prior drive-throughs that are only single LNG and we really stopped for two to three years to study it and helped Duncan develop this New Concept that's side by side and we've been running that New Concept for 2 years and we've had a lot of sucess the time from window to pick up or I'm sorry menu board to pick up is 2 minutes and 30 seconds from menu board to pickup uh yes from menu board to pickup and our goal is just constant movement obviously safe safely throughout the site nobody flying through and we have a lot of specifications here like the pullup there's a little door on the side and a pullup space in front of the door so that if somebody has any issues we can have them pull up so we had any large stacking it'll constantly uh float through so the the pull-ups area is designed if there's someone with a large order a unique order you can have them exit the drive-thru and pull into that area so that they're not impacting the folks that are be yes so we're not impacting the either Michigan or the Main Street and yeah just keeping it so and we'll have some testimony on the inside of the store but what has Duncan done since you've been involved in the company as far as how the interior is laid out to improve efficiency uh so I'll be again as concise as I can be but uh they hired a completely outside person actually from McDonald's to kind of rework their whole drive-thru format cuz we realized kind of four years ago that for the current environment it's not worth it so she actually came to one of our brand new side by side locations last year and we spent kind of 4 hours going through how did you develop this and they interview not only Traffic Engineers but managers across the whole country to how can we make this really the best for customers crew kind of all the stakeholders involved and this is the result and kind of the result we've had so far is it's been great our other location that's side by side has had no issues it's been great it's our fastest drive through today it's efficient the employees are happy and um I can really answer any questions let's talk more in the inside of the store let's talk first the number of employees so just give me an average on your peak time not the store has slow times and peak times I think the board and the Public's most interested in and your peak times can you talk about what the store store of this size which is a little over 1100 ft what do you anticipate as far as your maximum number of employees inside the building so the maximum number of employees I anticipate anywhere from 5 to 6 really with the uh new technology implemented in the store will be kiosk ordering there will be pickups a lot of people order on mobile so we're really just going to have the tight space which is good for the employees it's less ground for them to cover it's easier for them to work with and with this new design uh it kind of all just flows very nice compared to the store you see now we all know it's been there for a very long time and the way the equipment is situated there's water lines in there we can't move stuff around that would really make it easier for the employees and work with um uh a better and and inside the store are there designated employees for specific tasks is that how you efficiency is yes we run it like uh almost as close as to any team everybody's got their position in their role and they got to know what they're doing and stay in position and if we do that five to six is perfect why did Duncan go to a separate pay window and pick up window what's the benefit of having two exterior windows there's a a long long story of this me and my me and my dad went to battle with Duncan over this cuz they were single window people and we told them that it just it just flows better it for the customer it allows them to uh have options where if they're a mobile ordering they can have a faster experience they don't have to stop at that pay window and then for people uh our crew inside the store they're able to have a little more time assembly while the guest is kind of moving through there's just more room for error in the single window there's a lot of hands being placed for different crew members taking payment and passing it gets very um disorganized with the two windows it keeps everything very simple and you've had the benefit of working in both layouts a single window and a dual window for us and what is your experience with the new proposal that has a separate pan Pi up with my my life is a lot easier and you said the average time is 2 minutes and 30 seconds from when you order to what you get through the entire drivethru pickup and you're on your uh yes 2 minutes and 30 seconds as opposed to other coffee brands that we won't name um is is one of the reasons why you Duncan is sounds like more efficient is your your menu and your product items yes the menu the product items the processes we are kind of the fastest in the category cuz that's I mean one of the main things we're build on other than quality is speed people want to get to work they got places they need to get to and we want to make sure they get there long time what's what's typically your busiest time is is it morning Rush what give us an idea typically uh typically our busiest time is uh anywhere from like 88: to 9:00 it goes a little later on the weekends and now Fridays a lot of people working uh from home so deliveries uh Mr staet talked about the geometry of the site and he confirmed on the record that there will be no tractor trailers servicing this facility as the operator do you agree to if the board were inclined to approve this you would agree to that condition uh yeah absolutely we would have a smaller Box Car come in for the delivery and have you used a box truck delivery for other stores that have you know for for tight spaces no objection to having limiting this to box truck no Mr SC said you're hours uh we're 4:30 in the morning to approximately 10: p.m. uh yes right now we're Monday through Friday 4:30 to 900 p.m. and then we are on the weekend we're 5 to: both of the menu boards are on the side of the building facing the boulevard correct um with that location uh would you anticipate any kind of noise or any impact to the residents behind they've been placed in front of the building as proper screen as an operator do you have any concern uh no I don't have any concern the build and you you you're aware of locations that have the menu boards on the opposite side correct that would the property lines yes most and most menu boards they kind of lag back a little more kind of closer to the edge to allow more queuing but we already have a great amount of queuing so and it's better for the rest CH I have something further for Mr okay I have a few dozen questions um so very interesting operation with 2 minutes and 30 seconds um there was a couple of questions that uh I didn't think of before but that you kind of brought them to like I know that a lot of people here in town uh are very very concerned about the traffic patterns what's going to happen congestion um and we all noticed that on Route 22 you have another uh company called chick-fil-et that we see the traffic pattern going all the way down Route 22 and it's chaos and uh so I know it's a different type of U establishment where they have to prepare food but I do see that there are also double queuing stations and I also see attendance outside taking orders to move the line more quickly um but what you're telling us today is that you have done that research and you have um looked at other coffee establishments uh that probably order seven squirts of this and a different type of machiato that takes a little bit longer at the window which would hold that time up so you're not seeing a suggestion I'm sure it's always going to happen once in a while but you don't see this as an overall situation um you know in in my mind when we do operations the right way and the way this store is designed um I know other Concepts like Chick-fil-A they have all all kinds of issues I can't speak to that I'll say their volume is crazy more than uh than our volume but uh and in my mind with our door that's kind of on the outside which is an even better um adage compared to our prior side by side model we could easily have cars pull up there and the crew members wouldn't have to step out of position they would just have to take maybe one step to the right open the door hand it out make sure they're okay and we'll just be able to keep that so I don't want to take up all the time but I have three more questions I know that going to your store quite often because our offices down the block we do a lot of phone in orders and then we have to come pick up the order and things like that so are you saying that when you phone in your order you would go in the que line or would you park your car and then come and get it or so you'll you'll have the option of both and typically we love the people that order on the phone it's close to 45 50% and when they order they say their name at the menu board and we hear it we prep it for them they pull up but if you want to park and walk in as well we'll have a nice pickup station it'll be right here at the door you'll grab it you'll go easy okay so my next question is that you said that you're going to have like this there's a bug that keeps flying around you said you said that you have uh five or six employees that are going to be there all the time and things like that but I also noticed that you have six parking spaces outside correct where do the employees Park and how does that relieve the congestion in your parking lot so we'll we'll only have the five to six really darn Peak and most of these employees uh they do not take cars work they walk they car pool I have tons of other stores where they all take the same mode of transportation they Uber parent boyfriend girlfriend David drops them off um I think it's just the kids today me being and my dad talk about this a lot they they want some less liabilities they're more concerned with um higher expenses and they're they're willing to drive it scooters bikes electronic and whatnot to come our manager for this store she walks she lives right around the okay that's all I have down anyone yeah I'll ask as far as the queuing and and your experience with the site obviously you've been there for a long time is there a a a calculation that's done based on what you know at Peak time the uh the type of demand that's required and and how it relates to the 12 cars that you can queue here because I can see from you know it's definitely a concern uh from our Police Department to is uh to quote him the busiest intersection um in the county um is do you use that information to help um and and run it through some type of you know algorithm to say we can handle the load or or or when it loads up the expect it to back up no we're we're fully prepared we kind of know the um the average amount that we can take in in an hour that's top out and and the bottom out but um really with this model it's tested to be able to handle crazy kind of volume more volume than that we'll see at this site from sites we looked at in Ohio that process s i guest an hour we're prepared to meet a high volume I wouldn't expect it would be more than a lot of our other locations that we're running today but we we have tablets we have people that go out and take the orders we were prepared for all kinds of scenarios and Nick you have your your other store up at the Boulevard that's going to remain correct store we call it a baby will still be there so to put this are you done Frank to put this in perspective right now we enter your store you have a pro I don't know what it is I'm going to say 16 spaces or so eight in the front eight on the boulevard eight front 15 16 so would you the way I'm hearing this if some if I was to go into your store right now and you had that many people coming in I would prob probably wait longer than 2 minutes and 30 seconds to get my order out than you would if you had the queue um so so you're saying it might be it might be longer if you're if you're walking in or the way your store sets up now it seems as though you have these cars that are coming in and they're parking right now you have a line in the store but you got these parking people there they can't get out other people are trying to come in so it seems as though the way I'm hearing your testimony is is that the cars keep moving the people don't have to get out and get in it's a shorter period of time to get the service at the window and get out of there and you you're you're constantly moving it's more efficient the way you're proposing it than what's going on what's going on right now so there's congestion there's I'm not trying to put words in your mouth I'm just thinking this out loud because I didn't realize how this pattern was going to work it seems like there's going to be less congestion what you're proposing than there is right now yes because most of those cars are parking in the other parking lot yes and we've had a lot of actually instances with tougher parking lots like this one where people are backing up at both times they they dig each other and they got to sit in the parking lot right that that happens more frequently and we've we've never had that atation okay that's I keep saying that's all I have but I keep yes do you did you do any calculations like what your increase in volume's going to be um we we know roughly that when we open a store it especially one that was a standalone to a drive-thru it could be it could really be anywhere from um 20 to 30% more guests but that comes with walking in and through the drive-thru I feel that with the updated image the Nice Landscaping cross there will be more people C up on both sides that's what we so if you look at the 12 in the Que in the six spots you probably have more availability for cars than you do now yes and I guess you could probably fit five or six cars before you're actually pulling that into the boulevard yeah I I just seemed you know I didn't realize it until I saw how the que work and what's there now I think you almost it's based on like having less congestion because you're you're you're taking looking at that 2 minute and 30 that's that's pretty quick when you think about it it almost takes you 2 minutes and 30 seconds to park the car and get out and get in it yes okay I just spit fall anyone else yes Mr dun a few questions as the business is now is profitable uh the the business is is profitable yes I mean we had a very rough patch during Co obviously as most um as most other businesses but I mean the building is kind of dwelling the new on 22 hurt but you know we and so I think you said 20 30% more guests do you expect if you're able to do this uh done done the right way and and we do our job guess if it's not able to be done what kind of hardship your business um I mean for for our business it just kind of limits all our capabilities financially for not only our employees but what we can do uh in the future um you know we need to kind of do the best we can with our current Footprints and if and if we're not then we're not really being responsible for our state um so obviously this benefits you know business I'm having trouble seeing a benefit to the town especially I'm telling right now my concern is I know all going my son is going to ride his bike home from his baseball game and I send them over to act me sometimes right and now that you're saying every 2 minutes and 30 seconds there many cars going in and out there that's multiple threats for him on B from in the early Peak morning I I expect there will be some high volume but in the afternoons after his his baseball game it'll be much slower I can promise you that I mean to that point I I agree with you there but to that point would it be any different than the gas station on the opposite corner or another business doing business there are peak hours and there are low hours um you know there is some give and take to everything that's going on and we have to value we what is the negative side and the positive side but yes I don't think every 2 minutes and 30 seconds a car is going to come out because if that was the case he'd be a billionaire instead of a millionaire are we sing questions about the right now or we ask some questions about the well he's talking about operations this the Duncan I can but when we after you're done with the Duncan testimony we can one thing I do want to have you confirm because you your company owns the property but as Mr St that's testified you will have a property management company that also is an arm of your company manages on manage the multif family on day to day yes yeah that that arm the company manages 10 properties already so be so that that property management company has experience managing Residential Properties yes and the day-to-day operations as far as having um someone monitor those what I would imagine be a year process once a year to have and move and move out that will be coordinated through the property management company yeah yeah we we we'll coordinate all all necessary communication and right and as well as the trash removal there was a question the private hauler have access to the trash room and take the cans or would the building man bring them out yes uh I think uh we'll we'll find what the best way for the site but if we need to give a key file to whoever's removing trash and so so they can do it when okay so there's no waiting yes yeah yeah I mean the worst thing that could happen if this was approved the uh that we would have all of those garbage can sitting on on the gateway to our city yeah no we don't we don't want that I think the whole what we're trying to do is we're trying to freshen up the image on the corner I think that's the main gole cuz the way it looks right now I don't think we we're ni I want one other thing about the the shopping center I mentioned in my overview since I represented you when your company purchased the shopping CER in 2016 I mentioned the difficulties that the company has had finding retail tenants can you just provide a little bit more testimony what what efforts have you gone through to try to find tenants for that building yeah uh we' we've worked with um uh Anthony Natan he's our real estate guy and there's a sign I'm blanking on the neighborhood company he's had the sign in the window for years we've had maybe two phone calls about it and each time they back out just cuz it's a lot of square footage and not enough parking anybody that wants square footage of that size and is willing to put up the Financial Risk to take on something of that size they want more parking and more access for customers and that's the current that this just buildings essentially vacant except for the Chinese jout restaurant correct yeah he's been there for he's been there for probably 10 years he's a second generation guy he's a great guys so that's you've been your only tenant in this buildings yes and your company that has made efforts to try toase this for commercial purposes uh yes many many many um chairman I have nothing further on the multi family for Mr J just one more thing on the multif family and I don't know if you could answer this so you know a lot of bigger buildings or acquirit buildings have move in and move out times so you're not doing in a peak hour you're not having a moving van or a truck there um would that be a consideration to say okay you can only move in and move out at certain hours and maybe not during the peak hours that's a great point we apologize for not bringing that out direct that is a very typical procedure that we're doing on many multi family project so I apologize we should have included that but that's an excellent suggestion and that should be something that's done by Le that's something that's done management wise to ensure that those move in and move outs happen thank you yes um first question where where is the current double um stat uh it's in Edison F yes whereabouts I work um in in Avenue um so thank you for that the second question I have um relates to the greenery which I commend you for trying to add some uh some Greenery to the boulevard how will that be maintained so um we we have a separate property management company that will maintain that but we also work with landscapers for our locations who help us out I mean it's in just as your interest it's in our best interest to make sure that it it looks that way I mean we want to be POS so it will get maintained on a regular basis yes yeah we okay and my last question relates to the residential um and signs so how do you intend to rent the units the board and the barel will not be seeing you know signs on the building continuously that safe for rent whenever you have well we plan on mostly uh working through the separate on of the company and and just kind of going through online that's that's our plan as of right now one more question so you got extensive experience in heon operations prior to 2016 buying this property this is a more experience in multi res um I would say I would say me personally I have uh a lot more experience with Duncan and multi family yes but on it's a separate arm of the company that does our property management so the company does have experience in Property Management yes me me personally but uh my father and the our team that runs that they have 20 20 years of experience from all properties like they built them like this before properties as they so this would be a bigger uh undertaking for sure but we've done massive construction on our Dunkin side and into our property so Mr one question I for this um you eliminated baking on premises quite some time ago there's there won't be any baking uh no there there will be baking but not not uh I don't want to get too many specifics but not donut not donut you mean sandwich preparation uh I mean like uh yeah Bagels breads yeah I mean that's going on in the current operations I guess I was referring more to the donut side you have the central kitchen for that correct uh yes yeah see so that's brought in every day uh yes every every morning usually run out by late night uh yeah late late night for those of us who stop in right late night early morning sometimes late so because we were talking about oh boy because we were talking about rentals and signs and things like that you know we have um two big good siiz properties on the boulevard so I'm now starting to think because everybody's been hitting with hit with tax increases and things like that the ratables at this point I don't know where you are does that increase for the burrow or does it stay the same once if this is approved will the rateable be will the burrow be in a better position yeah we're we're hoping to bring uh some more some more walls to the town and we're hoping to uh create more a prosperous financial situation for can as far as the taxes J that's that was question um I you know I I think we can provide you with some clarity on that I don't think Mr Dore could could could speak to that but we can I I I understand your question we can get you some information on that okay I can only you can only uh participate during the public portion I'm sorry okay yes just uh could you go write a little testimony on the U I know every site's different but The Pedestrian walk up traffic you discuss that a little bit in the new site we expect uh well in my mind I'm kind of hoping that with the fresher image we would attract just more more people walking around say way and grab it on their phone they walk in they'll take it and their walk coffee longer they walk [Music] around I hope some more people will be walk out [Music] refresh Mr I just ask yeah yeah go ahead I was a architectural rendering of the new Donuts provided to was we should have set a plan from have this [Music] we elevation yeah I'm talking about similar to what was provided here [Music] color R that's what I'm saying so I'm looking for page that let me just have one [Music] okay we can have we can have the architect specific questions on materials and colors yeah I'm interested sure okay [Music] once Mr D if there's any other questions is there any more questions from Mr Dore anyone we'll we'll have the opportunity get you back up here if we need you all right thank you so thank you thank you for everything okay Mr yes Frank our next witness is the architect for the Duncan we have a separate architect for multi family but I to answer these questions since we had some extensive dunan test me Frank Julio you raise your right hand please sir with regard to this application you test to the truth you state your name and SP your last name Frank T Ru L Martin Place Chad New Jersey are you Frank yes you're going to be testifying as an architect as to theun Frank just quickly your education area expertise and your lcons uh 1981 of New Jersey Institute of Technology SCH of architect I became a licensed architect in New Jersey 1986 I'm licensed in Conneticut New York Pennsylvania Maryland Virginia uh I'm a member of the American Institute of architex then truste member work Suburban chapter okay well me switch spes so you spots here so you can be near the plan okay thank you sure yes [Music] yeah okay um the middle elevation here is what uh customers would see from K Boulevard this is our front elevation we have the store here uh originally when we see this building was own facility and when we met with the uh TRC commit Committee in December um they expressed some interest in having a pedestrian uh accessible building so we agreed at that point to add a pickup window but uh we decided to go a step further and actually carked out a small Lobby so customers can go into the building order face to face as they do now or um make an online mobile order and come in and pay up so the signage uh on on the the side um Donuts is no longer part of the equation the was rebranded about 4 years ago and it's now called dun and I felt it was imperative to add drive-thru because for the last 50 years the site has not had a drivethru so we wanted to communicate to the customers that this is a drive through facility um this area here is a uh party plank uh wood grain panel and we like to put America runs on Duncan or the board prefers we can put P work on dun um so the material basically is a fiber cement panel AKA Hardy plank uh which gives the appearance of a wood grain U sighting um I've used it on buildings for over 15 years and there's very little maintenance and it holds up very well it doesn't peel doesn't lose its color so I think you have a fairly P fre building here uh we do have an orange stripe across the facade and the canopy over the front Engine Seal people during a rainy day um the the back of the building here's where we have the two windows so the first window is the pay window and then the second window is the actual pickup so we have some graphics here uh so basically the graphics are there as customers are waiting to give them something to look at um these Graphics are not visible from the public right away so from Michigan or from Boulevard you really can't see this this is behind the building really for the customers who are queuing online um waiting to pick up the order at the second window um this elevation here is the elevation that faces the new hos apartment building you can see on a profile we have a canopy over the drive through side here's the door where if a customer orders for the whole softball team uh they could pull into that designated uh spot and an employee can come out of the store and hand off uh the large order to a waiting customer while the drive-thru uh progresses and then the elevation here facing Michigan Avenue you could see we have a small um I kind of a coffee cup with the D uh you can see in the backgr we have a canopy over the front entrance this is the boulevard side and on the back back side we also have a similar py over each of the drive-thru Windows to shelter the transaction during rainy days and um I think that's all I have any questions or comments is there any seating inside no no we we started um like I said without any customer access and we were asked to put in a window a takeout window uh for customers to walk up to and the OWN Mr deore insist that I find a way to carve out a small Lobby so the lobby is really only about 10 ft by 10 ft so a couple customers is there any is it a stark contrast or you think I don't know if you can see how the colors blend together so it's just like two contrasting buildings right next to each other um they seem to be pretty close to each other to color pattern I think when you so not to testify but see the the next rendering of the multi family building I think some the same material colors other than the orange I mean be some signage right okay thank you is the signage for the building compliant are there any issues that we looking at as far as they're they're lit in terms of square footage anything like that um are we considering that only the monument sign is not allowed to rest is the is leathering with sage yes this is uh this is illuminated yes U and this is externally illuminated there's some white fixtur that shine down on this and the coffee cup is internally illuminated but the graphics are not no these Graphics uh there's some lighting above that will shine down on the graphics but these Graphics are not illuminated will it stay illuminated even closed I I think one of the comments was to dim the lights um one of the recommendations I think that would be included correct the timer the timer would shut those off this morning if there's no more questions for this gentlemen we we move onio an elects of the digital thank you sir our next witness is the architect for the multi project [Music] Mar could you raise your right hand please sir regard to this application the testimony the trth yes name your last pleas Mark Marcel m a r c i l l e mark first C okay thank you Mark for the benefit of the board and public your education area of expertise techology LIC AR State good stand you appear Prov testimony before plannings yes sir thank you chairman I would offer Mr Marcel's an architect and expert in the field of architecture thank you so um is this Mark the uh exhibit or this the sheet that was in the plan set or just slightly different no this is different from the pl set and the pl set was updated probably all let's okay we're up to A4 for this exhibit [Music] yeah ask question so did I just hear you say that that what you're looking at now is different than our plan Set uh the front elevation is the same just a blown up version and and a and a gri front rendering which there are differences in the plans that I have to present from what was submitted the only difference really is that I didn't show where the condenser locations on those plans so I indicated they'll be located on the roof and screen from from A View which I'll same Mark so what's been marked as A4 U it's a good place to start there was a question about you know consistency between static these two buildings yeah was actually a great question it is something we thought about we chose a brick sort of the primary exterior exterior uh P element which is called Windsor by uh neutal materials so it's sort of a classic red brick but it has a slight undertone of orange in it it sort of pulls on the color scheme of of the dunan without being obvious uh and we wanted to sort of break the facade down visually uh into vertical segments does sort of help to define the street the streetcape this sort of proposed Street we building uh we wanted to create a first floor segment that was sort of separated from the upper two floors we wanted to get that first floor segment more of a more of sort of a storefront field uh so we obviously have that that large Overhead Door in center for the cars to go in and out of so we chose to make that sort of a smoked gray glass uh store run style overhead door you'll be able to sort of see through it but you won't be able to see uh you know completely clear through it the same thing with the two sort of picture windows on both sides that'll be a little bit more opaque so you won't be able to see into the trash room or into the meter room on the right side uh the trash room doors will be also more opaque the trash room doors do not have an aing over them uh whereas the main entrance door is a little bit more of a clear glass and has an awning metal awning supported by light cable attach to the building just sort of denote that this is the entrance to the building Mark just for the so the idea with this design was sort of capture a mixed use project that you can see typically in a downtown with there's commercial on the bottom resal that's correct that's that's correct plus there there is commercial on the ground floor along the streets that you can now move into the uh floor plan we had testimony uh regarding the seven unit building um this is the sheet Mark is this the she that was submitted or has been changed sub we did updated to add the furnaces to the Flor plan and I added a note indicating the three bedroom apartment located on the second floor let's mark this as 85 yes and this is an updated version of s sheet number is that S1 and the only modifications from what the board and the burrow have are adding the note as to which unit is going to be the three bedroom we added the note for the three bedroom unit on the second floor which is facing the Boulevard and we added the furn furnaces in each of the apartment so nothing is itally nothing of substance you added a not identify which unit corre nothing of substance they design the lay the number of units stay the same the breakdown same break the same could you point to the three bedroom on your plan on it's on the second floor on the on the Boulevard Unit 2A unit [Music] 2A and Mark I think the garage Mr staff gave extensive testimony on the garage the parking um the trash room I I don't know if you have anything else to add about the trash room there was discussion about you know both from Mr stet and Mr Gore about operation how The Refuge smaller would get in and out um any other features on the ground floor that are service to building I know you have a Lobby you have a package room yeah some the amenities for residents it's a very simple ground FL primarily to accommodate the parking uh TR room was mentioned I think that's very clear how that works the entrance Lobby for the residents is large enough size to accommodate you know seven units there going to be a a section of for mail and for package lockers and then the meter room is essentially off of that uh which is good size to accommodate uh the water meters and Sprint the uh connection would be right into that meter room sprink the building will be fully sprinkler and there will be the connection the fire department connection that building be fully spr is it elevator building yes there an elevator service the building second floor contains three apartments one is the three bedroom on kol Kor is at the top of the drawing um on the boulevard rather and the other two one apartments are towards the back the side of the building that face the Duncan is loaded with uh individual storage units for for each of the tenants to have just additional storage of put decorations or luggage or things they don't they don't need on regular basis in their apartment and then we provided a small amenity room in the uh along the boulevard side just for common use for all the tenants on the top floor is four departments storage room the dun side is there a gym or a fitness center or some yes this this common area room is is designed to be flexible but certainly will probably be used as a gym and the average size of I know these are all one bedroom to be C of the three bedroom average size of the one bedrooms oh 950 to 1,000 [Music] ft uh looking at the reports from the board's professionals um I just want to just confirm that you've uh clarified uh you've identified which of the which of the apartments will be the three bedroom that is unit 2A um that's the only three bedroom and that's the bedroom that that's the unit that needs to be three bedroom for affordable housing yeah Mr par can I ask you a question I have a plan in front of me unless I'm seeing something wrong up on the second floor it shows 1 2 3 four bedrooms I thought the same thing chairman if you look close it's it's labeled a bedroom but that's because it's called three bedroom that I saw the same thing today when I was comparing oh yeah do say bedroom four here that's okay should be one two three bedrooms okay thank you and that was item in Mr O'Brien's report each um so you address that do you want to talk about the condensers and how everything will be screen so we should Mark this A6 A6 is the revised elevations to include the condens correct so I added a roof plan on the upper left hand corner of the drawing showing the the required condensers um uh seven of the convenors are for obviously Bri department and eth one is for the common area common area so they'd be located in the middle of the roof it would not be visible from the street but we're going to screen them anyway with u you know a vinyl horiz that's the only change to that plan chairman nothing further for Mr Mar office okay thank you does anything have anything from this gentleman yeah I don't know if that's the architect answer do we know the anticipated rents on these arkets I don't believe I don't [Music] believe are there air air handlers in un how are they how are they heat cool I know you for yes so are there any lights on the back of on on the back of this building don't have any lights currently shown on the on the plant on the back of the building okay I was just worri about the residents like lots of lighting coming from for res there's no lighting that even better I guess so um we don't have any proposed on the building right now have the plans been revised to relocate the EV spaces along the re I have no this was not updated for for that change we so I'm sorry go ahead and uh did you consider any green uh infrastructure for the roof you know we didn't talk about it but i' would love to do it so if gets on board I'm on board I would like to do a a low growth uh seum system it's a modular system it's relatively easy to get roted uh really no maintenance after about a month of ordering it it's not very expensive I think it be worth wor much so this is a three- story building right so on page 82 it says rough ceiling fourth [Music] floor it's in the bottom right corner front elevation it's on the left hand [Music] side oh that's the the height of the parit the fourth floor is just something the computer automatically generates but it's not a fourth floor it's just the top of theit I thought you were trying to sneak one [Music] in so is there a second overhead door that goes out the rear of the building to uh to access those EV yes oh thought you meant to leave the there's no through no not through but just those those spots um in the back is that sh Mark is that sh on the reation you that out can you also go over the security measures going out for the for the residence the residents would have uh keyops for access the you know the main entrance door as well as more the overhead doors so the T like a garage door would work would you open the door when they close that in the ref company would be we'll be giving the same fobs access to tracking and we can give the same fobs to delivery companies access the lobby just the front door to the lobby uh and the ma the mail and lockers can you speak to the um the affordable housing unit sure um how that works as far as it being a three bedroom as opposed to the rest of be one bedroom units and the fact that there's one sure absolutely so the the the number that was arrival was one 15% set aside that's required because it's a rental building that seven units that turns out to be one unit if you're providing one unit according to the uniform housing uh and Control Act in the state New Jersey it has to be a three um that wasn't the original attention but in order for the burrow to receive credit for that towards the reportable housing had to be three bedroom that as far as rent that's done completely by through the county and through the housing agency the affordable housing agency that R is sent based on average medium incomes for the region not just the burough the bur is included with many municipalities and I don't know for region two here Kevin knows I don't know if this is region two but whatever region this is that's established for the for the entire region which includes a number of and the qualifications to to rent that unit are handled to the admin reg for the affordable housing program thanks did and would be it would be de restricted and it has to be in order for the county sure credit Kevin just if you are interested the uh maximum incomes in this area to qualify for affordable housing we're in the $50,000 range so staring teachers police qual which question yes Mr this building as is now the application for variance is to reone it um from commercial to multi family is that correct so far appli for it's not a resoning not not a resoning just classification classification so are there any building variances that are being applied for or do this as is need basically it's a great question and that's actually something that we may not have highlighted as much as we should have the building itself other than the use to have multi family on the bouevard the building itself complies with all of the bulk requirements mean the setbacks the height parking coverage there are no variances required the actual structure it's just to have multi family and and now the Duncan did require some building variances there were some as noted by Mr O'Brien in his report there were some Landscaping screening variant and design R there was a variance for the monument sign that's not permitted um so the dun did require some some variance for design wers anyone else what's the distance between the rear property line and the rear of the building cuz there was a question about lighting and the fact that there wouldn't be any lighting and so if there's significant space back there I would maybe want to have something it's just sensor the 14 ft was actually a revision to provide better distance it was we were the initial submission required a rear yard setback we were too close to the rear property line and the residences in the building was scal back and configured so that it provided that required setback that the B established yeah I mean that's that's great but again I'm thinking some you brought up the lights and the fact that with that much space people could be conting back there and so to have it just dark doesn't seem like a so in our previous um project he allowed the lighting back there but it went off at a certain time or D at a certain time so it wasn't on all night long stuff so maybe we could have some lighting back there with timers on it again or dimers that's what you guys want adjust lighting so that the throw just goes downwards and the residents aren't affected by the lighting so they could design scall lighting or uh the shoe boxes so that they're tilted so that it just shines on that area so residents aren't getting right Mr L brought up that we heard an application pre L that we required that again the fact that we were saying there wouldn't be any and so there should be some and then the professionals can work out what's most appropriate to not affect the resident C and as far as the solid fencing you're proposing behind the building and behind the duning it don't require 6 foot um solid fence or I see we allow we don't require oh allow so anything up you can request everything okay yes question for the architecture uh on the south elevation of the prior set I have uh there appear to be a number of blank windows in the second floor to the rear and some on the left side still supposed to be that's correct there are several uh that are indicated as that are brick that are sort of indicated as Windows that may have been enclosed in the past uh simply because Windows aren't aren't required in the door plan or blocked by the stairwell uh so we wanted to finish break thead to make it to make it look interesting we wanted to fild to look great from all four sides we had those recesses sort of mimic the look of a window uh I'd be happy to add more windows wherever we felt appropriate in the Flor plan there were things in the way that restricted us from doing that you a window instead of brick Windows to add more interest fa resal area [Music] yes Kevin I didn't he what you said there I'm sorry yes thank you there are a number of brick window I asked Windows window through and the architect indicate they do they could do that there is a there is a bedroom next to the balcony on the second floor it has a f window on it is that is that intentional or yeah we happy to make that a [Music] window oh yeah that was updated in this plane good for there's a couple in the stairwell that probably could make Windows also I'd be happy to make all of those in the stairwell windows um as long as they're not you know Crossing the the the a Stringer did you get that Kevin thank you Kev Mr D obviously this a big investment and want to make I guess to you sure you want to make money right off of multi can you speak to how you arrived that seven unit what restrictions or you want more units how how how does this maximize sure great question so mark your memory is probably better than m is I thought one of the original designs were there were more units we had started I believe with 12 uh we need a parking variance and it was largely driven thank you for joining by largely driven by not being able to fly with things like rear yard set back and parking so the applicant sacrific the units to make that they were providing something that wouldn't have a negative impact on the community by not providing anal parking that's how we arrived itself and providing the storage units for each each apartment so they have ample storage space just get some question to my own curiosity if things like parkings were required or there were Varan available for setbacks this profitable Venture we could there could be more units because there weren't those liit yeah I think be substantially more units on your mark this isn't a very dense project in your professional opinion this project could be more dense uh certainly we've done similar size projects that that are more dense and if it was more dense it would be more Prof so by requiring parking there's less money to Bey I think it's a combination of things Mark it's the parking it's making sure you're not too close to the property lines it was all those building envelope concerns but yes to answer your question those zoning constraints dictate how many units was not worth it in your opinion to try and um you're applying for bar other building bar you're not applying [Music] for um I mean yeah I think I think we could could do more we'd love to do more but we want to do something that makes sense we don't want to put anybody in that position or anything like that just is not the job of board yeah I I'm I'm trying to learn that's where all is I'm trying to see how the process works like they came with they want a 12 the town says you need parking and now generally generally applications with less variances are better so coming in with wanting more variances has a better risk of being denied so that's that's a key reason why you would try to minimize the number of variances that you're putting before the board again board's it's not the board's responsibility to make sure that somebody's application is I'm trying to understand the uh the process yeah basically we're looking for compliance and at the closest possible measure so can we we can proceed as does anyone have any more questions for this okay what else you have Elizabeth Dolan or traffic Eng okay um [Music] oh where are you you want me over there are do you have something to point to over there okay this application with a testimony you're to give sh the truth yes I do uh the record State your names by your last name please Elizabeth Dolan d o l a n thank you uh Dolan and Dean Consulting Engineers in Somerville New Jersey I go yeah education chairman missan has appeared before numerous times and provide license is still in good standing the board may wish to consider her an expert traff thank my license is in good standing recently okay so that's you the traffic impact for this project um it was revised it was originally submitted and updated I believe the latest is June 19th correct June 19 2024 that was the full version that to the board most recently that's correct can you provide we've had extensive testimony regarding the drive-thru um your office analyzed the queuing and the stacking and taking into consideration the operational aspects of Duncan can you provide the result of your find I I can and I I know you awful lot tonight about the design of this facility the operation of the facility but I do want to remind everyone that there's an existing Duncan on site and we counted the driveway volumes um on a weekday morning and a weekday evening to to understand the volumes and how the current driveways are operating and there's been a lot of talk about the driveway activity so if I start with that and then we can get into the the drive-thru um but when we counted we found uh peak hours uh in the morning and of course Dum is busiest in the morning we found the Duncan was doing about 50 Vehicles 50 in 50 hour just to that but of those Vehicles only one exited left to buard and only one exited left to Michigan the predominant movement is right in right out and we did have some some lefts in off of um Boulevard as well D is a convenience type of facility most fast food restaurants inclusive of Duncan and and other coffee shops they thrive on the traffic that's on the existing roadway system and because they're convenience facilities people are uh typically making right turn movements and that's exactly what we saw here and of course in the evening it's not as busy because Dunkin just doesn't do the volume that maybe McDonald's and other fast foods conventional fast food would do but again same thing one left out in an hour to Boulevard and no lefts out to um to Michigan Aven so the site does exist and it's because it's close to the intersection and these are busy roads you're not seeing a lot of less um and so when the project team discussed the comments from the county that said left turn prohibition I my response to the team was well of course you'd like to be able to allow that movement during off peak but if you look at the volumes that we counted at the existing dunk people aren't doing it because they can't do it it's very difficult to do so with that as a background and with the um reinforcement of what Brett scapin told you you know we got the comment from the county they said no lefts out so that's that's the way it's going to be since they have jurisdiction and I fully understand that signage doesn't always preclude someone from doing uh what the sign says you're not supposed to do uh so if generalization islands are appropriate um we can you know work that into a revised plan what I would also point out is that because these roads are so wide anybody can swing out around an island and still make that left if they want to and if they're doing that at 5:00 in the morning before the volumes pick up well that's when you know it's probably easiest but since the orientation of the traffic is more so eastbound particularly in the morning um I don't see a potential for an increase in people trying to make less out but that that's just uh the traed volume activity the other thing that kind of goes to some of the concerns about how quickly uh traffic may be exiting particularly back out to Boulevard this is a this is a quiet dunin when you compare the volumes that we recorded to most of the other research sites that we've looked at 50 Vehicles is about half the volume that a typical Duncan does in morning peak hour and again in the traffic world we focus on peak hours so but from 6:00 to 9:00 in the morning um you know when you're seeing that Peak we're usually seeing 85 990 vehicles per hour up to 100 vehicles per hour that's that's a little bit more typical I don't think that just because the site is renovated we're going to double the volume but getting into the drive-thru and the capacity um I've been working with with Nick and his father and the consultant for Duncan over the past several years as well um understanding how we can um maximize the throughput of the drive-thru this design can handle over 200 vehicles in an hour which would be an incredible amount of traffic and we did a research count up on Route 17 in east ruber or ruber where the volume on northbound was over 3,000 vehicles that site was was doing higher than 100 I think that site was doing 150 or so Vehicles so from a capacity perspective we've got a somewhat quiet site it's dated it needs to be modernized I don't think we're going to automatically double but if we were to double the traffic this system has the capacity to to get that that traffic through the system someone asked about the the existing dual drive-thru that the opin has and that's on Inman Avenue in Edison and I went and I counted and observed that um and I found 110 vehicles that got through there in one hour there were never any more than 11 vehicles in that drive-thru Cube it keeps moving you have two order points and so that keeps The Cars Moving have the two windows so that there's the pay point and the pickup point and one thing Nick didn't mention is that what we've done is the typical drive-thru used to have queuing for four vehicles between the order point and the pickup Point that's been increased to six so that that gives the um employees more time to process the orders and so the whole drivethru experience is much faster and more efficient and yes it does go specifically to the Dunkin menu and the fact that they don't have these specialty orders or a huge menu um to choose from with a lot of different options and they've got the beverage person and the food team um so all of these different things taken collectively allow the the throughput to be as I said they can accommodate over 200 vehicles in an hour we saw 110 at um at this new site on in Avenue um and so I think those are the things that you know I took away because when when we first started a different application with this team we didn't have the Inman site available um and then once it came on board and you know gave it a few months to to settle down we counted and we saw and I've been there since this specific research count that I did um and I haven't seen any any problems I've also seen videos produced by the Dunkin team of other sites outside the state and same thing this 2 and A2 I did see there were times where it didn't take more than 2 and A2 minutes to get through the queue but again there were no backups the and I think also too what's important is we all know what happened during Co and those cues were spilling out into the streets everywhere because we had no other option to couldn't go in the building and that's when this whole focus on the drivethru really started and we knew we had to make an improvement so this team effort um and and Nick and his dad have really I think helped uh especially here in New Jersey to create a situation where we can move the vehicles through have a much better operation and it goes not just to the design and the menu board placement and the two windows but also to how they've set up the kitchen and that's not my um field of expertise but with fewer steps to uh perform your tasks to prepare an order all of these things taken collectively allow this drive-thru to have a capacity uh that far exceeds what we're going to expect to have here and and Joe I don't know if I answered your question way you wanted me to but I I wanted to give uh the board the benefit of the the actual numbers that are happening here and the numbers that this this system can accommodate which we would never see at this location simply because of this location and the fact that uh the the volumes passing the site aren't high enough to drive up the volume to over 200 cars in an hour and that's one thing I want to follow one of the board members made an excellent point an observation I'm sure you see in your experience sites like the one that exists today without the drive through where you have people running in getting something running out that quick movement people backing in backing out getting into their cars I mean from a safety perspective have you have any observations as to what that can look like versus having everybody in their cars in a Drive-Thru Lane stationary until it's their time to move forward right there's there's a lot of movements that can and do happen on the site currently and the proposal is this sort of oneway um counterclockwise circulation pattern uh which keeps everybody moving um and and keeps everybody moving in the same direction and I I do think chairman or a couple of the board members who said that this is a a a much more efficient layout and operation and two um when I've been doing the observations not just at this in site but but some other sites you can tell the people who have uh made mobile orders because they either Park and run in and come right back out or you can see them bypass the menu board in the Drive-Thru and go right to the windows um so it is very efficient and that's something that's you know new to the industry that certainly uh works well and and when I sto there for two hours and watched all this you can see how efficient the entire operation is so I think overall it's a much cleaner uh layout and circulation than what's existing and Bret talked about the driveways and and next door and I can talk to some of the numbers about the residential but we're cleaning up the access we're pushing the driveway for from the intersection um and we're we're having no Ingress from Michigan and when you look at the numbers there's not that much the majority of activi is coming uh in and then going back out to Boulevard so I think it's a much improved circulation system that exists today the uh you don't not only analyze the traffic movements but you look at the site plan and how it's been designed and laid out for safety and efficiency correct yes and this drive through Mr SCA has pointed out can contain I believe it's 12 vehicles in the queue and stack before they encroach into any dry biles correct right and and I agree with his comment that we can definitely get a 13th before there's any compromise to the um onsite circulation um because a 14th vehicle would definitely block the access to the parking aisle um so I I think it's definitely um comfortable based on what we've seen at Inman and based on what I understand from the overall dumpin operation and you when you're analyzing these sites and you're questioned on some comparisons to some other types of businesses that have drive-throughs we've heard Chick-fil-A and some of those types of businesses and your when you analyze both of those types of Quick Service restaurants is there a noticeable difference from Duncan versus some of those operations that have larger menus more complicated menu items sure and we've been involved in in a lot of those and um queing for up to 20 is being provided different F food and coffee um locations and Chick-fil-A is a completely different animal I think we all can recognize that that is just a monster fast food operation with uh with something uh far greater than than a dump into the SE uh but yes we do look at it and now we're looking at it on a more individual basis based on on the brand from a parking perspective that's another uh aspect of circulation and and safety that you take into consideration you've seen the design of the parking for the Duncan and you've heard the operational testimony from Mr deore and you've obviously viewed what's goes on there today are you comfortable with the amount of parking in the configuration I am um and also too because that that this whole mobile ordering type of thing can be accommodated and I've seen it being accommodated um in the drivethru face it everybody wants to stay in the car they have the option of of staying in their car or parking and walking I think the majority of people are are staying at their car so uh the amount of parking for this use and as as Nick pointed out a lot of the employees don't bring their vehicles to um to the site and you can see that from the existing operation there's not parking problem so I think that uh providing the designated spaces for Uber and lift drivers I think that's a great idea because uh that that's also trending in this business and so we've got two spaces labeled for that um we've got the accommodations for pedestrians so I think uh overall it's laid out well and of course we do um exceed the parking requirement and finally py you've reviewed all the reports from the various Consultants correct yes um did you want to just take a start with the harbor letter and Mr O'Brien letter and then after finished with those we can any again anything that's traffic related obviously right yeah CU I was taking notes when when Brett was testifying and I think the first one for me in the harbor letter um is number five under site plan I guess that's page two um it says it talks about the two driveways are proposed on Boulevard one for dunon one for the residential we recommend that the driveways but I think it's exiting to Boulevard be restricted to Right Turn Only well that was also something from the county and we're agreeing to that um and however we are guided to um redesign in addition to signage we we'll work with the county and and the board and the board Consultants so before you continue off that one your traffic study there was very few people that were making those left terms but despite that the applicants willing to follow that recommendation yeah in my mind it is self Poli and even as I mentioned earlier if you were to provide a channelizing island somebody who really is bent on making that L we'll do it but you are absolutely uh being um Guided by the county and the board as as well so yes we will um prohibit those left turn um exiting movements um number six I think but also prer to me talking about the um pedestrian walkup oh needer to to Nick I'm sorry that wasn't for me uh so sticking to the harbor letter on page four there's a section under traffic number one um there's a statement that um that our report indicates that the shopping center um and Duncan existing have more trip generation than under the proposed condition and I guess it's time to get into the residential component of this um in our report we reference The Institute of Transportation Engineers for the proposed Apartments um and it's only a few uh Apartments so the trip generation is limited to uh three driveway movements during the morning peak hour and four in the evening and when we look at the again I I took you through some of the numbers that we counted at the um existing dunan during at the retail Plaza we had 18 morning peak hour trips and uh 15 evening peak hour trips and that's based on a pretty much empty and quiet Center if it were a thriving shopping center the activity would be much greater but even with um without accounting for a fully occupied shopping center we we calculated a 15% increase on dunan activity we added the retail and we came up with a reduction of one uh morning peak hour trip and reduction of seven uh peak hour trips in the evening so residentially I'm sorry residential yeah M right so that was a reduction a reduction yeah in in trips with the um replacement of the commercial with the residential departments um and then the second part of number one you're saying a commercial as if it was fully occupied cuz it's empty now no no no we we took the driveway volumes that we counted um and then when we basically if you if you take the 18 morning peak hour trips and swap them out with three there's a net reduction but we increase the Dunkin to account for the the hopeful gain in business um so basically it's a wash but by the calculated numbers there's a reduction of one trip in the morning peek hour and seven trips in the evening peek hour um and I think um Brett really comment heavily on the um the second part of traffic comment number one um about the maneuvering and the the big uh paved area in front of the commercial building so we're going to be cleaning that up and driveway um so again that in my opinion is an improvement over the existing conditions where you've got parking Maneuvers within the RightWay with close proximity to the uh depressed curve um and number six gets us to the police Department um memo that came through this evening and about I'll let you address that but you know after reading the police department my takeaway and you can correct me I Wrong is it seems to be a reference or a comparison to those exact type of fast food businesses that are D and that may people may may be familiar with on rout 22 in the L is that my reading that correctly that's my view too and just for the record it's the um July 10 2024 um um letter from Captain Campell talking about his concerns with the introduction of a driveth through here and that spill over potential onto Boulevard um you've heard it from Nick you've heard it from me I don't see that as likely here for a variety of reasons um and we've got the safety valve of this pulloff space that hatch SPAC on the the uh east side of the building uh that allows any any big water uh to be managed by having that that vehicle pulled to the side of the building and then keep the um keep the queue moving um I didn't see that happen in the visits I've made to um to the IM Avenue site um but I think that with the uh different things that we've all talked about tonight I certainly understand the concern and If This Were a um an undeveloped site and didn't have a history of a duning operating here uh there would be more of a that type of focus on this concern but since we've got an existing business it's been here I think for over 50 years it's been said um the the market is established so while we have factored in and app hopes for an increase um I don't see it to be um something that would create any kind of backup onto the the roadway system so taking all of your analyses and observations into consideration do you have a professional opinion as a traffic engineer as to what if any negative impacts would you see from introducing the drive-thru and converting that retail building to multi I don't see any negatives I think there's a lot of positives because we're cleaning up the driveways we're I think better defining the driveways particularly for the commercial section we're not going to have all that maneuvering in close proximity to the uh the travel way the roadway uh we've talked about the restrictions uh for uh driveways that currently don't exist there's no left turn Eis prohibition for the commercial or dumpkin driveway to to Boulevard so that is something that will create fewer conflicting movements or further um um hopefully reduce those those movements even though in my mind it's self-pleasing and then I think um you've been taken through the design of the um Duncan um in my mind the oneway circulation is very clean the double drive-thru we've talked about now a great deal uh the efficiency uh the ample parking uh the parking for the residential meets appropriate standards parking Supply is appropriate um there's accommodations for uh delivery and pickup and so forth um so from my perspective it's an improvement from a traffic and circulation perspective thank you chairman I have nothing further on Direct okay thank you and when you when you're doing your observations of that site did you I I mean just my thing I I drive that way down to the B to the parkway every morning and um I get stopped from people trying to get into the dunk of donuts as it is now did you observe any of that and I guess in your opinion is that that would cure that from happening the way it's happening now on occasion well if trying to get in on Michigan we're not going to have them coming in right but coming down the boulevard I get stuck sometimes with people that parking lot is kind of backing up and there it's backed up anyway people were trying to make the right into there off the Boulevard and I'm stuck trying to get down the boulevard do you think the two dual Lane I think drive through will cure that yes because number one you're going to have basically three three options you're going to either have the parking aisle or one of the two Drive Lanes you're coming in you're not faced with any obstacles um the only obstacle you could encounter is somebody backing out of the closest parking space um adjacent to the driveway but there's still room for that vehicle to come into the site so I think the oneway configuration um reduces the amount of conflict on site so I think it's going to improve that situation thank you so looking at uh your comparison between Inman Avenue and here um we just took a look at that on the Google Map and that seems like that's in a more of like a mall site type setting so the comparison is really not identical to what nor would it ever be identical but it really in comparison is somewhat different because you would go in and you have much more room uh you know based on on your report that you were saying that in Edon you had 110 it can handle over 200 but I think you have much more space there to handle more space because it's a destination shopping center I mean there's a supermarket and a bunch of different retails there and it's not it's not more of a downtown the way the setting is but the design of the drive-thru is the same they do have more parking at that site but the the drive-thru operation and design is what is proposed at this location so it's the um the drivethru configuration the menu board placement the double menu board the two uh pickup and pay windows so all that is the same um and that's what we looked at in terms of the throughput but it wasn't as though you had people lingering in the parking aisles no of the shopping center but you do have a relief if that did get congested they could Veer off and go into the other Park sure there's a lot more Pavement in the shopping center yeah okay anybody else have any questions uh this is purely observational but we were just talking about a uh there's a site that was recently built in Cranford pretty busy intersection I think it's Elizabeth Avenue and say South Avenue or north where since they built that site I don't know if they've approved it at all whether or not it's one l two L it's a Starbucks site and that's a nightmare and I've heard people make the comments and I know you talked about they have a different product and all and and maybe you're familiar with and say what what's gone wrong there because I I can I can tell you a lot about what's gone wrong there um number one it was um it never went through dot process um and I think that gone through D because that's gr 28 there would have been a different outcome um it's a very small site um and they have gone through different um onsite iterations I know the latest thing is they've got these Ballers that push you to go all the way around the building so that you can't any longer hang out on um North Avenue so and of course it is a different menu and you know specialty it takes a lot longer to get through a Starbucks drive through that it's also a single Lane oh yeah oh yeah right not even mentioning the the double drive through that we're proposing here tonight yeah and you can make a left from North Avenue yeah that why that's a big issue it's tight site yeah now the Duncan site on 22 that I happen to drive by the they dat on on the peak times um it's the site where the Valene is and then there's the new drive-thru dunk in there they I mean that's 22 um observation they on the busy that's a pretty busy site I don't know if you know anything about that site studied that site um I'm not familiar with that one yeah not that I've seen anything back on back up on the 22 but I do see you know plenty of cars in that c um just curi and again these Duncan double drive-throughs are there's not too many I know there's one in Cherry Hill um and you know we've been working on a couple other applications so they coming on board but the in is the closest one to study just I just confirmed with Mr Dore who knows obviously all the D in the area that's a single too single Lan it's not a Double L your traffic s take into account pedri Andy anyone else vehic traffic as is now sure that that was an outcome of the um technical review meeting we had several months ago was to specifically accommodate pedestrians at this location so there's been sidewalk routing into this property and of course we're obligated to upgrade to improve whatever sidewalk um is in disrepair along our frontages so that is an accommodation that's part of this application anyone else have any questions Mr yes a question for mral could you provide as all with the copy of the police yes thank you so I mean electronic electronic mail I'll email it tomorrow anyone else Mr oh thank you very much I'm sorry um [Music] M chairman um we only have one Final witness um our planner to address the two variance to address the use variances in the would it be possible for us to take a 5 minute break I know we've been going a long time absolutely motion motion to Take 5 minute recess motion bab by Mr David second by Mr M in let's who's the first one all in favor okay the meeting is back open again uh right now it's 10 11 I mean 10 10 uh we are going to try to see if we could curfew this out you know by 11:00 uh let's see if we could do that if we're right there and it's 10: after 11: 15 after 11 fine but midnight 1:00 in the morning we're just going to have to carry so uh is that okay with you thank you okay so um who do we have in front of us sure just ch I just notic that did we lose a board member or no yes yes we did lose a board member okay so we have six right now you have seven 1 2 3 four five six oh yeah we have six okay just want to be sure okay well we'll continue our presentation our last witness this evening is John McDon he's our professional planner Mr McDon will address the variance release including the the variances that were requesting this evening Mr McDon for the benefit of board in public your education expertise in for John Richard right hand with regard to this application you s the testimony you're B give show you the truth yes I do thank you state J by your last name please sure hi there everyone my name is John McDon SP MC capital d o and I'm the project plan thank you thank you John all of your licenses are currently in good standing as a professional planner in landscape architect yes state of New Jersey National level aicp thank you Mr chairman Mr MCD has been here num and the board recognized okay thank you Mr MCD John this application for the drive-thru dunin and the multi family in the BD District requires the use variance for the drive-thru component as well as a use variance for the multif family you analiz this application uh a d variant you're leave and you're prepared this evening to provide planning justifications to meet the statutory criteria and support of the variances I am can you just give a background of the site and what your findings are from a planning perspective sure this is a longstanding developed site it's in certainly in need of Redevelopment it's got a defunct commercial use on the one portion an older Duncan brand uh facility here which is going to be upgraded and modernized after 50 some OD years of being a component of the community to reflect current market demand where this drive-thru amenity has become so popular because of the convenience the weather protection and the U inherent benefit that it provides to the the public at large from a convenience and safety standpoint people with that are Mobility challenged as you know again weather protection for all people efficiency convenience um all part of current market demand for this land use to make this brand accessible to to all people um not withstanding mobility issues or or the like um also repurposing the defunct commercial component will bring this site more into harmony with the surrounding neighborhood given the fact that we have a site that backs up to residential going from non-residential against Residential in this particular location is a good thing from a planning standpoint um essentially the board has been betting most of the negatives with respect to the application before you you've gone through access and circulation and parking and queuing um all of the things that would be part of the statutary negative criteria I think this applic has been well beded through an interactive process between the board and the witnesses before me that this site will flow will function will operate safely and efficiently without any substantially adverse impacts that goes towards the negative criteria that the relief can be granted without substantial impact to the public or without substantial detriment to your Zone plan and ordinance obviously we're here for two D1 variances the one for the drive- through commercial use in your BD Zone which granted it is in autoc Centric use and what wants to be a pedestrian oriented Zone we think the applicant has done that by pulling in the other D1 use variants here uh which is a residential use on the first floor of the apartment we think the co-mingling of these two is substantially consistent with what I would call planning 101 to activate our downtowns with what are really the lifeblood of downtowns and that are people pulling people into the downtown where they can work and live is a good thing from a planning standpoint and will certainly reverse the condition of the property and the stagnation that is currently existing out there which is contrary to what you would want for a vibrant downtown so again people are the lifeblood of downtowns and they will U support the businesses that are in the area certainly you have to pick your spots otherwise we reach a Tipping Point where we transition from a residental a non-residential downtown district to too much residential and I don't think we're anywhere near that Tipping Point here and have struck an effective balance um every variance application needs to relate to a specific piece of property given the physical location of this property here and its need for redevelopment and repurposing and modernizing I think the board can clearly find that this R does relate to a particular piece of property and not the zone as a whole um we always have to be careful when we work in a residential component downtown that we are providing adequate living space and these units are going to be appropriately sized they'll be well appointed they'll be comfortable they'll be a nice place to live and what is really like a park-like setting with a with a downtown location that is walkable and has excellent accessibility to amenities that would make it an attractive place to live I think the board can also find that this is going to improve the visual environment that goes towards purpose eye of the land use law with an attractive building consistent with a contemporary uh demand that's what today's modern apartment building looks like uh we're going to provide for adequate parking as you've heard through the witnesses before me to meet the the supply will meet the actual Demand on the site and uh no relief for the parking uh count as proposed here but meeting the ordinance requirement planning purpose a promotion of the general welfare with new housing stock to replenish older housing stock and in appropriate locations that goes towards purpose G to provide for a variety of uses in appropriate locations according to the needs of all New Jersey citizens this is a boutique type development with its seven units it's not going to overpower the downtown which we may see with some of these larger uh residential projects it will maintain the quaint character of your downtown compliment complement entering it not um uh conflicting with it also we see the um advancement of purpose ey as I said the promotion of the desirable visual environment and purpos having the efficient use of land by repurposing a project and a site that has already been developed for a long period of time again counterbalancing those positives we look at the negative criteria from an access standpoint circulation standpoint from an overall design standpoint this project has been designed in accordance with sound planning principles there are some subsidiary C variances which have really been addressed by the witnesses perform me the lck residential off Street loading space parking lot residential Zone screening with a wall of a fence the loading space required for the residential building the uh the residential buffer width and the height the trash area and the monument sign have all been beded through the process here and I would fold all of that sidary C relief into the greater d relief that the applicant is seeking you can look at this entire application holistically and consider the positives of the application as a whole substantially outweighing any of those negatives again I think pulling people here into your downtown will reinforce the planning goal to have a vibrant downtown reverse that stagnation that's out there now and can be granted without any substantial impairment through your Zone plan and ordinance um with that that I would offer that this is good use of this land it is a good piece of property visually prominent Corner in your community here this will upgrade it without having a detrimental impact and most importantly the statutory criteria for both of those de relief are met using the testimony of the all of all the witnesses that have gone before me as the predicate um again for me the pl conclusion that both the statutory positive and the negative criteria are met here joh I just want to highlight a couple of the what I'll call the overall improvements that were the result of the prior testimony we heard from numerous Witnesses V scinet and Miss Dolan about moving the driveway for the dunan further away from that intersection it's a County Road obviously but the safety improvements they have ultimate inter that's always a functional benefit yes moving that driveway uh the Restriction you know this Dolan's research demonstrated that there's really not a lot of U making that those left that were you know concerning despite that the applicant has stipulated in accordance with the county and some of the comments we PR this evening to restrict those drivers to rights out so for safety perspective um some of the other improvements Mr scence highlighted was the reduction in the impervious coverage from what's out there today um you saw the site plan renderings if you worked uh you've been closely involved in the development you've seen the Landscaping added to the boulevard um the amount of green area that's coming onto the site you're a landscape architect as well I'm sure you can appreciate taking a site that's 100% according to SCA Almost 100% impervious and go into this um all that that all that go into your your analysis from a planning perspective as the benefits it's an older site um somewhat Antiquated it has really outlived it use for life and we designed things a lot differently 50 60 years ago than we we presently do the S as that exists now is not consistent with current planning principles um I I think Brett and his team have done a great job here of giving a nice soft green edge around the property some nice landscaping for the public to look at uh to help that built environment blend with the natural environment and I think we'll be a a drastic improvement of the corner from a physical standpoint from a functional standpoint as well highlighting what Betsy talked about with the movement of those intersections away and the overall Design This is certainly what we want to see in terms of modern planning as composed as compared to what's out there now and then just finally about the the residential building is it your testimony that introducing that pedestrian foot traffic to cattle Works downtown will not only beneficial to these businesses but the surrounding Community it's always a balance here um I think the applicant has struck the good balance here it's as I said before it's a boutique building we're talking about seven units here it will put people here in the downtown without overpowering the downtown so I think that balance is shut thank you John chairman I have nothing further for Mr thank you mrar thank you Mr MCD anyone have any questions uh specifically you uh Kevin uh for the planner thank you very much chairman uh Mr McDon did you have a chance to take a look at the purpose of the boulevard dwn own District uh which is listed on page three of my report I did yes did you care to comment about the applicability of this application towards the goal of the boulevard downtown the goal of the boulevard downtown is to have a strong and vibrant downtown and sometimes pulling a resident population into downtown can actually bolster that commercial goal so again I think the applicant has struck a good balance here of fostering that goal of of promoting that goal without altering the character of The District typically a drivethru is seen as more of a highway oriented use than a downtown oriented use you he to comment about how you feel that uh the drive through me improve Yes again given the physical characteristic of this particular piece of property at the corner and the recess from the road U maintaining the sidewalks along the Frontage um we think that the applicant again has struck that good balance of maintaining safe and adequate pedestrian circulation um without creating an over dependence on the automobile it's it's a convenience it's an amenity um and it actually can provide for wall access as well uh so we think that balance is Shu we are seeing more and more drivethru facilities in dam being integrated into Dam town so is not atypical of what we're seeing elsewhere are you aware of other d facilities on the Boulevard in the downtown area I am not such as banks for instance certainly Banks yet I don't know about eies yet but yes and let's not forget Banks had very long cues back in the day you talked about pedestrian access is there anything else in your opinion that would make this more pedestrian friendly or have those needs been addressed I think those needs have been addressed by the design as I understand it there's a walk up window um so there's opportunity to access without having to go entirely one of the board members uh before talked about uh the ability of somebody bicycle to access the site there's no cycling facilities offered at this moment uh do you think that would be a positive to the side or do you think do you think it's needed I'll say it's positive the uh the land use process is interactive um we hav an here that I'm sure is listening and willing to um to integrate or discuss with the board if the board is thank you thank you so you have yes anyone else Chris okay anybody else I have one question for you uh Mr MCD uh do you think that with the uh keeping the Neighbors in mind with the erection of this structure do you think that that would impact the neighbors to the rear either by the height of the building or by lighting or by um having some type of uh different type of Lifestyle because of the building going up I think the building becomes a benefit to the neighbors um important the mass and scale of that building are within the confines of what your ordinance contemplates I might have a different opinion if we were going with a taller building there with excessive floor area there building coverage or the like this application and and our design team have hit all those higher tiers of of bul control to ensure that this is not an overly massive building buildings can become buffers and I think that this building can adequately screen activity on the street and other potential retail uses as well um bear in mind a service court for retail use or commercial use or an eery could go in the back which I think would have much more impact on the neighbors than a relatively benign residential use I didn't mean to do that but just I was thinking no more okay any anyone else yes yeah I got a question during construction if it happens now contractor parking and now if you're going have a cran on the job are you going to be closing down road to f i I wish I knew the I don't know about construction I honestly don't know cuz I I'm in Constructor when we built a highrise building now you have the contractors parking in the neighborhoods it's customary that an applicant meet with the board engineer or sure yeah there's typically a preconstruction meeting not only with the engineer for the town but the police department to ensure that there is those impacts are not happening and and this applicant comply and I believe the ordinances the code speaks to construction time frames and not impacting neighborhood stre so the applicant would comply with K word's ordinances and also have a reconstruction meeting with the town to ensure exactly the hills that you're talking about so that it's an excellent point we would certainly include that as a condition of any approval that we comply with those preconstruction we all good for now okay um you you you clud our presentation okay I think it's time to open this to the public make a motion to open the hearing to the public uh motion May motion made by Mr David sorry prior to that I believe we have seven City members we have seven Mr paparo Seven sitting members I just want you to know okay not six thank you okay Sor the motion was made by Mr David seconded by mradi and all in favor all okay folks in the public it is now your turn to come up to the microphone state your name and address and uh what you have to say come on up and speak clearly okay thank you my name is Geraldine tonsa I live at 710 Kingston Avenue which is L 20 directly behind the commercial building okay um there are 67 years since 1957 now the Boulevard the block from Michigan to Market Street the whole block is all commercial building and I think it should stay that way I'm totally opposed to these proposed plans now it's the zone is BD Boulevard downtown I went and got a copy of what kinds of structures and and businesses are allowed here they 12 such as restaurants and Banks and Office Buildings medical offices and so forth nowhere on here to I see where it says residential uh housing it doesn't it doesn't stay that it doesn't qualified to be there it shouldn't be allowed ma'am if I could that's why they're that's why they're here that's why right yes they're asking for permission to be allowed yes which is not right now now as I said I live directly behind this building and you know with these apartments you're going to have uh people in the windows looking directly into my yard I'm going to lose my privacy you going to block my view and I do believe a building like this with a a a supposed to um an office building a resident building it's going lower my property value and should someday I want to sell I think I would have a harder time sell in the building and I do know that every anyone in this room if you live where I live you would oppose this too also I know you are providing parking spaces but suppose this multiple these tenants have multiple cars and visitors where are they going to park now we're at the First Street some of my neighbors are here we're on Kingston and um I'm right next to the paring lot by the little stores and shops and eering on Michigan um on Michigan Avenue now already our our street day and night we have all the employees and customers people from the post office and all those shops in Michigan and the E parking all day on our block we have to time you can't even get a spot in front in front of our wrong house and um it's so congested already I remember as a kid you could walk across the street with your eyes closed now I mean I I just can't I cannot believe you know really our street is just a mess and a lot of times cars are parked right up to the corner where they're not supposed to be so if you're driving down Michigan making the right on our block you can't see what's coming now I think and and also D Donuts you you are providing six six spaces but again not everybody's going to want to go through the drive up and if you have to park where you going to park you're going to be back on our street if there's not enough parking spaces so like I said it's not zoned for it and I I'm I'm opposed to this going up and and like I said my neighbors are here here that can attest to to the traffic that we already have on our street so that's what I want to say and also um uh like I said you know when you do consider this I hope you taking into account the traffic there a traffic I know that's coming and the residents rather than rather than uh consider how much additional tax real estate tax Revenue the new buildings will [Music] bring can I ask you a question thank you thank you for coming up and your concern so I too have a I too own a house on Kingston okay I don't live there but I have a house okay R it and um I was wondering from where you live to your next door neighbor if I'm looking at your house your next Labor how many feet do you have between your house and your nextdoor neighbor 10 eight five oh more than that 10 okay and so in your rear yard from the back of your house your rear yard I have the one story building right now okay you have that but your next your next neighbor has probably 20 or 25 ft to their yard correct Oh you mean the backyard M my neighbor your backyard would really be looking at that building correct yes yes you have it I'm directly behind it I'm just trying to get to a a footage thing so if you came out your back door your backyard would be 20 20 to 25 ft before you got to your fence probably yeah 15 20 25 yeah so I just wanted to let you know that if this was approved and that building went up from that fence there's another 14 ft so if you have a standard 20 ft and another 14 ft that's 34 ft away from that building to your house where your neighbor who lives directly next door to you could be 8 to 10 ft it's that close to you so I know a single family hel I I get it but I what I'm saying to you is your concern earlier I was just making you aware of how far away that would be before you know you said they would be looking into your windows and that is a concern what do you see I'm directly behind yeah that that would be my guard and you know I always thought K stayed nice because we never had apartment buildings for Trans M well thank you very much thank you anyone else from the public wish to speak ah I know you're ready come on I thought was one of us come on up state your name I was waiting and I can standing on the corner house up I have to take my grandchildren to school come out and I'm going michig dunin Donuts they're coming out they're going in they have to be in that line um the right CU they come in from Michigan to the D behind so when they come in they don't come in what they're proposing is they're not coming in Michigan anymore they're only going to go out for the parked cars that may go in there what they're doing is they're taking away that driveway which is actually a benefit for you because now that car cannot cross over the city sidewalk where you could go when you walk to that corner those cars can't come in there no more it's only an egress so they're going to be going out only out and that's at a I'm not lobbying for them I'm trying to explain to you so you can understand the that that driveway is only going outward for the six spots that are there all the other cars will be exiting primarily on the boulevard for those who want to go out that driveway would make a right to the boulevard so it actually benefits you because you don't have that passer by traffic you could actually see the traffic coming towards you now so in that respect it's a benefit to you I hope I was clear you were thank you thank you uh also they're they're making these apartments now these people have one bedroom so that means the husband and wife could live here maybe the husband has a car and the wife has a car where they going to par these cars they're going to have a spot for one what do they do with their car then they come around onto Kingston Avenue Park there night Sunday Mondays Tuesday whatever day it is and we had these stores in the back near my neighbor you know the be and all that so there always traic there when I take my kids to school I got to go down three BL go to the end of Kingston go down two or three blocks so that I could see cuz it's like a blind spot where we are that should be like a oneway street people coming this way and that way and I have little kids in my house it's very upsetting to see that they're going to do this you need to Kor because it's a small community and it's a nice Community I don't find this beneficial for our community thank you thank you thank you for staying out here so late tonight oh that's okay you missed my bedtime anyone else from the public please come up and state your name for the record [Music] Gerald de 53 Willshire Drive and I'm not here about anything that was discussed tonight I'm here to go on record to say that I'm opposed to the things that want to be done to the 251 Monroe areax for this was that this this this particular time for public comment is specific to this application know that yeah we open it up to the general public oh yes I'm sorry ma'am uh we will open it up to the general public after this application this is still part of the application I'm sorry sometime one time I was here and they closed it and now we know I promise you I will not close you out okay I'll stay a midnight may help m g yes um that is the subject of an application to this board which has not yet been heard it is incomplete so when it comes to the board at some point in the future everybody will be noticed that it will be heard and you can speak directly about that application at that time if you wish I may not be in New Jersey we have another location I understand that but on wait a minute Kevin if I may when this is open to the public they could speak to us about anything they want to speak to we may not necessarily be able to answer we can listen but we can't we can't speak to them we can't stop them from their thought process if there's a pending application an application that is in queue yeah we're going to be hearing I would rather us not I don't think it's appropriate for us to take comments about an application coming down the line when that applicant's not even here okay why don't we wait to the public portion let's when you come up let's hear kind of what you're saying and if we could guide you away from that so we all don't get in trouble okay all right we'll do the best we can great anyone else from the public oh come on up also I'm sorry ma'am can you speak up a little bit sure my name is Rosemary bentel okay I live on Kingston Avenue okay I too am concerned about the traffic that this might entail um as it is now we have a lot of traffic from everything that's there now and we're concerned you know about the parking which is is difficult sometimes um so you know I I kind of agree that this might cause more problems for for us um another thing that's not clear to me is what the benefit is as far as like taxes are concerned now like our real estate taxes go like crazy and and it was suggested that this coming here is going to help that I don't see how that what how is that going to help us so I don't think they said it was going to help us I asked the question about the rbls would there be an impact to us would the would the burrow uh benefit by this structure going up would it be an increase a decrease and the uh the attorney said that he would get back to us to give us that information he didn't Supply that information at this point am I correct Mr paparo chairman that's correct we talked about that and there hasn't been any kind of a financial impact analysis done and and I'll def Mr REO but I think once you get into Mr once you start getting into Financial benefits of land use applications I think you're on Dangerous Ground so I I think it's probably better that we didn't Supply that information we don't have it to answer your question but if we did I would I would suspect that Mr re would have an issue with us relying on economics to justify their inance okay so the last thing I would like to say is if this does happen and it seems that it will um [Music] could it be considered to have our street as a oneway maybe that that might discourage a lot of the traffic that might come from from these building this building and The Dumping [Music] Don I mean the lady mrsan she spoke about traffic and whatnot so that probably wouldn't be our decision here at the planning board or zoning level that would probably more be at the governing body level the governing body would have to make that decision meaning the mayor and counsel so you would have to at that point go uh to the council meeting go to the public portion State your concern and then they would uh look at it from that perspective that's not what this board does okay okay that's it thank you thank you very much thank you anyone else from the public wishing to speak [Music] not like we don't know but please state your name and address for the recordo 18 North 19 Street um couple questions there um I was thinking about any impact uh the sword infrastructure can it handle that I know Ro Valley always beating us up can orth get hammered with them there's an expense the burrow have to absorb that I don't we can answer that um also if the height of the building is concerns of residents is it possible maybe they could make it underground parking and then it would be wouldn't be so tall maybe that could alleviate or assage their concerns I don't know if that's an option I know I think Elizabeth our schools are that way because there's just no way par there either I don't know if that's an option uh if you do go forward with that and also in light of the affordable housing that we don't really have much of I think did it have to be three did I hear correctly have to be three bedrooms yes it did Mr paparo that's correct yeah state regulations require at least one of the units to be three bedroom and this project requires one unit so the one unit has to be three bedom I didn't know if any like they maybe made two units how many need just a thought um pretty much answer lot of those uh the only other consideration would be like all right once we have apartment buildings then I'm concerned not so much about this individual but that there'll be a building Blitz on right down the boulevard um because I don't know how you would be able to deny other people right once you have that on you open that door U so just something to consider and that's pretty much all my questions and concerns and uh yeah make it the one way we could help you out if next coun meeting okay you would want that is coming out uh towards Michigan okay we have thank you okay so just to answer your questions a couple you want the engineer answer yeah yeah that's I wanted to I didn't want him to go away answer yeah bre SC that's Dynamic so for sewer we we spoke to raway Valley and we're good so there's no issues with capacity or conance um you had a question about parking Going Underground yeah I mean if you had the park in first level's parking so had it down now it's singing it down is not going to work cuz you got to be able to rent down to get that so by the time we ran down to a level that would bring the building down you probably would not have more than a couple par there so it's not feasible okay just a so to answer your last question about the building Blitz um you know we have to concern ourselves with that here at the planning board level um we have to also look at everything as a case by case basis um how it would impact the positive and negative criteria of our burrow and uh when a applicant comes before us we have to uh figure out um do they meet the criteria what is the criteria how will it affect us is it something that is for the betterment of our town or is it going to be detriment so we have to take all that into consideration and we also know that we can only listen make a educated decision listen to the public what their views are but we also know what the ordinances are and what will happen if you say yes and what will happen if you say no as you very well know what happens so um uh we're going to do the best we can to work through this and um I think you had all great questions and thank you very much thank you Mr chair okay another one Mr Herbert good evening uh Bob Herbert 14 or 12 Street uh thank you for this opportunity I do have a few questions regarding the commercial pumpkin Donuts the okay okay uh well I'd like to start with that the travel aisle between the diagonal parking and the uh dyr Lanes when we took our break that took look and that aisleway is only 16 ft does that meet our ordinance most commercial uh parking areas usually require a 24t travel highway highway we're going to go to to so does that need a variance uh it does comply and they're angled parking spaces so when you see 24t aisles it's because it's a 90° parking stall which is what's out there now so by going on the angled you're cutting on you're cutting down and need to have a distance typical oneway aisles are anywhere between 15 and 18 ft standard so this is out that's a I guess a state stature how about our local ordinance no it's not it doesn't require we don't have a deviation from your code for the oneway aisle it complies it's 16 okay I was just curious thank you and then [Music] uh I guess my next question is I think one of the board members I used a Boulevard like all of us do a lot and in the morning and in the evening hours rush hour in the morning and evening it does get tough to cross over Michigan Avenue if you're heading either way on a Boulevard due to the traffic uh let's just say hypothetically today the average car is 12 ft long right and this drive cre could take 12 cars on an average their figuring I was wondering what the distance is from the building to the boulevard how many lineal feet do we know how much that is could probably calculate that in about 6 seconds he's got that nice ruler coming out for you [Music] about done I estimated that to be about 40 38 ft SL so from the building to the boulevard yeah so from you turn it into the driveway so where you're turning into the driveway to where do you want me to go to just a turning point just that turn this this Turning Point okay so that is call it 45 50 ft 50 ft to the end of the island what from the from the curb line to the end of the island is 50 ft okay thank you so the worst case scenario we know it's not going to happen constantly but let's just say somebody's coming down the boulevard heading towards Market Street and we have 12 customers going with the Dunkin Donuts that's 144 ft that's definitely are back up double stack no no on the bouevard making the right in the The Bu make it right or into Dunkin Don into Dunkin Don you're making a right like I said it's a it's a stretch and at one time that you're going to have 12 people come I it is going to back it up but it's worse now I think in my opinion I mean it's not it's not good now this should Del I asked the expert and they said it would alleviate that issue that's happening now now okay so that's just my fault so sorry about but you do bring up a good point because what would happen if but I think we have the what FS on every case scenario and so you have to alleviate you know that scale if it's going to happen once every six months well what's happening now 20 times every 6 months so we have to look at it the way the traffic expert explained it to us you know I had a little bit of a different opinion earlier about the traffic than when it was explained and that's why I was able to answer the neighbors questions so easily that it actually helps us it benefits Us in in so many ways you know and I'm wondering if the applicant would consider to limit their menu uh to try to get ahead of the all of the worst case scenario that we get backed up with traffic you know in those peak hours of business you know by just donuts and coffee I think things will go pretty quick it's just a question between me and a lab post that's not happening that's not probably wouldn't allow that anyway so if it's a question between a twisted kler and a chocolate donut you know I don't think so what I what I what we can do and you know I've had the pleasure of representing the dmor for many many years and I can tell you in other communities what they do commit to is working with the police department post approval and post construction and then the police department recognizes an issue um and reports it to the operators and to the dmor they work with the police department to correct it before an impacts neighbor so I'm sure they would continue to do that in cter war this is the community where they've been the longest so and I don't know how you would write that into a even if you need to but post approval they would work at the police department to be sure that there's nothing that the police department notices because sometimes they see things that the doesn't that we don't see and on the site now in the existing condition don't have an outside fer box am I correct do you have a Walkin yes yeah yeah yeah the current facility with the new building will that freezer box be inside or outside because outside is contain the building yes it it's going to be contained in or out it's outside the build the new the new building is still going to have a freezer box on yes but it falls within the the footprint that you have here meaning it's not going to get larger oh yes yeah it's within the footprint yes it's encompassed in the rust color that you see on the it's just not delineated at the box it's going to stay within the same foot all right uh now I'd like to switch over to the residential lot and I just really have one question those EV parking spaces are they inside the parking lot enclosed in the building or on the Outside the Fire Department or the building officials I don't want someone from the burrow May brought a point to our attention that they're better outside of the garage not not in underneath the garage so they're on the if you come you can come they're they're they're completely outside the building and how do they get to that parking spot through the overhead door in the rear in the front well through the front and the rear of the building's going to have an Overhead Door correct or just an open no it has an Overhead Door matching the the front here's the oh it's going to match like the this is the front this is the front overhead door and then we just flip to the rear so we CU they're right up against the rear property line no this actually this building is like 14 ft away from the rear prop oh it is yeah that was the recommendation of the bur is the car lights going to impact the the resident that's behind there in the evening hours here's the they just get one at a time here's the rear overhead door that matches that that this is the section of the building this is the elevation that faces the residential and this is the re the rear Overhead Door uh the lighting I believe there was there is no lighting proposed it was going to be the garage lighting that was going to light those [Music] we have a solid yeah we have a solid fence put a solid fence up 20 ft sorry i' like it to be 20 [Music] ft I feeling this is going to be approved but those charging stations are at least 14 ft from the property line the building is 14 ft from the property line okay and then the average Park is yeah 9 19 wide so and does fire have any concern about getting access if there were if those cars are being charged in the rear of the building I we have access to the D Don side and as well as the parment lot D Don just won't have any uh access to their building for those couple hours but through the garage does fire have any concern of you know I have concern with it but I have a lot more concern if they were inside they were inside so but if I may add they're actually not going in now Bob there are this is projected in the future so maybe new things new technology will lend itself to new ways to c a bit if there was a fire or something like that and I believe that's one of the reasons why they're looking at this down the pike well if we are successful come 2035 and all cars are electric then they're going to want to have charging stations inside the garage I'm sure they're going to be updated fire codes and things like that oh without doubt and that's why we could go to Wanda to get an updated building permit for that kind of work okay that's all my questions thank you very much thank you sir folks anyone else from the public wish you to speak seeing none make a motion to close the the no that's that's for this okay we're still made by Mr David second by Mr all in favor okay okay gentlemen you see before you or you've heard before you what we have um we have a building that uh they want to put up they somewhat meet all the criteria they have a Dunkin' Donuts that they want to put there and a drive-thru uh we heard some testimony from the uh specifically from um uh the the traffic expert that um there should be no impact and actually betters the uh traffic flow or the traffic situation um we also saw that U they were agreeing to conditions such as maybe a channel driveth through uh smaller trucks for uh their deliveries and activities uh softer lights or dimming lights in the rear of the building so it doesn't impact the neighbors uh things like removing the brick Windows putting in fux Windows and um the other thing is is that there was the parking uh conversation that we had that there was only four required but they gave us six um you know the parking in the housing side it meets the criteria of 12 what actually is 13 they uh they have an ADA area there uh they also are talking about the EV situation where they're not going to do that now but they have they are going to make it ready for when it is uh feasible um there's a lot of things going on uh that you know we heard tonight and we have to make a decision um um with all due respect y um so one of the things that I'd like the board to consider before taking a vote is getting their own traffic study conducted which is our our right obviously not the not a requirement but I definitely feel we should do that before taking a a vote and I understand that's a it needs a majority of the board to approve that but that's that's my position before we vote I feel we should get our own trft okay so the vice chair is presenting that we uh take a vote on whether we need a second traffic study done after everything we just heard um and so if that is the case then we need to put that vote to the table is that correct need a motion in a second sh okay so someone want to make that motion yeah I'll make a motion motion made by Mr David second and by I'll second second by Mr Mao and the vote the vote is going to be whether we need a traffic study by yay or nay correct because yeah because um coming into listen to the application my first impression was um my concern about the traffic although I think Mr Pap's team did a very good job in in in in explaining that to us but to have a neutral um and second opinion in light of what we've seen from the residents tonight res I think would be a smart so that's good so it's by y right just all in favor all okay all in favor I I oppos Noone okay so we have a traffic study uh that needs to be done and now how do we go forward with the application Mr O'Brien is raising his hand Mr O'Brien how do we go forward with this application if the board please is uh the board staff can recommend uh several names of prominent traffic experts in the area uh we can have proposals sent to the board officers and if the board designates the board officers to hire such a consultant uh that can be done or perhaps it could be done next week at your special Bo if Mr chairman if we could do that that' be my preference that we do it at a meeting where the board votes on you know the professional that we're going to hire okay yeah rather than just you know I okay so can we do that at that next meeting on that I plan on Mee at next week's meeting so Okay Kevin would that be a little tight tight time frame it's got to work that's the next meeting so Mr papara we have a we have a another meeting that we're doing uh uh next Wednesday I think it's the 17th and uh what we're proposing is that we would like to uh vet a traffic study professional to review the documents and to give us some advice on what we heard tonight and we could do that quite quickly as quickly as the 17th yeah Mr chairman I would say my my intent was more than a review of what was provided it is to conduct our own conduct the study yeah okay and what's happening on I'm just confused as to what's happening on 17 are you well we have some other business that we have to take care of but since there's going to be enough of people there we are going to get some names of the people uh some different firms that do this specific type of work will'll take a look at the uh the quote how much it you know how much it will cost there are credentials we'll vet it and then make a decision on oh okay but but there nothing will be presented correct this application is not continuing on the 17th that's what I'm trying to confirm you're going to conduct your business and and hire professional on 17 that doesn't require our um so by question to Mr to our planner and maybe our attorney is do we go forward contingent upon the traffic study or do we carry we have to continue the meeting yeah if you dependent upon that traffic study to give you information for your vote you would carry the application to the next meeting which would be September right what's the what's the date September 11th September 11 September 11th the the the procedure would be to carry this hearing to to September 11 uh in this room at 7 p.m. and um between between assuming we can get a name and name name a traffic professional uh that prior to September 11th at the 12th so we wouldn't have to hear more testimony uh from all the professionals that were here tonight we just need to hear the traffic studies yeah report yeah and your professional would be in attendance on September 11th I would like to have my traffic engineer it would be the 12th it be the 12th 12 and I would imagine whoever the board retains prior well prior to the 12th hopefully they would provide the board with a report provide you and I would thinkk you want Betsy here to you know to take a look and and uh um my guess is whoever the board hires is going to be it's going to be a name probably familiar to us who do this kind of work probably py side so maybe they can they can talk so that that would be the game plan thank can I ask you the cost Associated to the traffic study professional those to where we probably want to get a number of some kind yes that would be part of the proposal to you let me put another way who pays for the traffic study the applicant does the applicant does okay all right just within within within in a reasonable normal amount you know we're not going to hire someone for $100,000 to do bet would come over to [Music] our we we have to get this done prior to that meeting don't hire yeah no it's got to get I mean I'll just throw it out there you were kicking on the idea of do you need that study to vote or can that be a condition of approval if you're expert doesn't concur with our findings then we would need to come back I would think we want I for one would not vote until I have the study in I we need to back up with with the study he that sure bety wants to respond to that I think the board would more comfortable with SE 12 okay just make sure the board members keep their notes understand what we have in front of us because we're not going to hear other testimony they're maybe a bit of a recap by Mr paparo corre by some of the things that have were said tonight but uh we could we could look at it in dep yeah we wouldn't intend on bringing any other Witnesses or reopening the case it would just be solely related to Traffic and this don't would be here want tell me Len T to listen myself and Tony probably won't make it on the 12th we're going to be away okay well we will still have quum but now now wait a minute got V on the people here can listen to tapes right the transcript yeah yeah yes but are we going to have so the problem here is Tony and and Mr spary are not here on the 12th then we are limited down to six class one and class four you one more person to listen to the tape then you're back to what is there another person yes Mr CL Nick Mr Clement yeah Clement be here aren those aren't they're not class so we should be okay I won and you won't be here okay so [Music] the resched our meeting for SE I can be here on I can be here Wednesday and the 11 11 Thursday thday you can be here when Wednesday I can be here Thursday okay can you be here Wednesday yes okay can we have can we you have a problemes does it conflict with Council it shouldn't that's the third that's the second Wednesday I the other council meeting on September the 11th 10th or no 11th no they there first first third that's the second Wednesday okay so if the board is okay with this it's okay I'm okay with it um is that good by you everybody good that sounds like it's a special meeting so I guess it'll be need to be noticed we would be changing our regular meeting to September 11 and we'll conduct any other business that goes on but we will put this first in line corre do we have anything scheduled now for of September that would be master plan there might be another applicant so we continue with that on 12 no on that day change the meeting we got two months anybody's noticed they to have okay they haven't they haven't noticed yet because I okay Mr Garo you got that I do thank thank you thank you and thank you for your time no thank you and we appreciate everyone's time and feedback as well as the public we look forward to number 11 thank you thank you we want to have some our discussion this some of our discussion or we want to just just close now and we're going to continue the hearing on the 11th it's not over okay so just before hold on we're going to we have to do this formality folks in the in the bleachers out there we are still in session so please a little respect okay um any comments for the good of the board seeing none none who wants to make the motion I make the motion to open the meeting to the public for comment okay uh second by Mr maio all in favor okay okay you got the FL floor you got a monitor what what we can hear what we can hear yeah I we're going to kind of monitor you what we can hear and what we can't hear okay it's just information I'm not asking for any um opinions or what you know what you think um as I said my name is Geraldine de can you hold on a minute ma'am I'm so sorry they're too loud we can't hear you the board is still in session please in the hallway because we have to pick this up on the microphone thank you very much okay ma'am go ahead uh my name is Geraldine diamanti and I live at 53 Wilshire Drive we purchased our house on in December of 74 so we're coming up to 50 years I say we but since my husband passed away 2 and 1/2 years ago I'm the one that's living in the house house let me give you some history here when we bought the house way back when not a mention of a flood zone or high water table was presented and for 25 years we never had a drop of water in the house if you're familiar with our neighborhood all the houses were built on a slab without a basement some people dug the foundations out to put a basement in fast forward to 1999 and Hurricane Floyd that was the first time we got water in the house it came from the East meaning North eth down through sixth into wish into Willshire so for 25 years we were very good since 1999 we've had five floods in the house the last one being last year July 4th with the nor Easter that blew through Kenworth we attribute all this to the opening up of Washington Avenue from North 8th to North 6 taking down all the trees and changing the water table to a high flood zone because of the amount of of homeowners insurance claims the entire area is now deemed a flood zone and with with a high water I can't even read it out with the stupid glasses and when purchasing a home flood insurance is is now a requirement we've spent a lot of money trying to correct the problem the last one was last year after that flood and that was $225,000 I was finally starting to feel some ease and not as anxious when I heard a storm was on its [Music] wife then in April I received a registered letter from 251 Monroe Avenue saying that they want to make major renovations to include infringing upon the wetlands so that's why I'm here I'm vehemently opposed to their Renovations from what I can see from their almost illegible map they want to put Ash and porest pavers very close to our property taking away the wetlands the nightmare will start all over I have to interrupt you I'm sorry we can't hear that you can't hear that you can hear it I will tell fling's fine when we get into the ready of this yeah I will tell you the the maybe the proper venue for you is Council I think maybe you should go to the governing body because we can't be uh Jaded by a Maybe an accusation or a statement or something that you're making because it may impact something else that we have to do with an application that's up in coming but if you go to the council meeting the mayor and councel go to the governing body wait for the public session and and they will hear that and then they can advise you accordingly okay I did write a letter to the EPA because their initial letter said if you have any concerns to write to them the EPA has not written back this is a wetland problem and that's where this letter came from I have a packet here that I put together I made uh 10 copies of it for you just to look at you could see the map the map is illegible but I could I with a flashlight and a magnifying glass I could see how far it was coming up to our property look with Hurricane Floyd was bad hurricane iine was worse because when hurricane IR came in because there's no basement we have a cross space under the living room the dining room and the kitchen the carpenter ANS walked in a month later that that took a whole month to get rid of I'm sorry that you can't hear the case I'm so sorry that we can't hear it either but but she will so there's a pending application and that application will eventually be heard by the Lord at which time you will be noticed because you're a property owner within 200 ft of the property and then you will be able to come to that hearing and speak at that time and provide those details that you want to provide now do you know when that will be I don't cuz they said that Kevin said it's not complete that but um but it's it's up and coming you know yeah okay see I was planning on going to Florida so that's why I wanted that's why I came tonight but I'll have to postpone it we're not it's not to be for a long time or excuse me so going for a long time or when you going because may not be for two more months okay well I I'll work around that the earliest SE yeah no not even probably more towards the end of the year oh really okay well that that's good should be okay and you'll be able to come here and say whatever whatever you want great just underated question to the application I heard tree removal between 8th and 9th is what you originally attributed your fling to on Washington that yeah because for 25 years we lived there for 25 years without a drop of water in our house once those houses 53 wheel were drive and once those houses were put in between 8 and 6 on Washington AB those High those big big houses the water table changed and flood insurance was required on any uh people that had that needed a mortgage they a high flood St from that [Music] time thank you for your consider thank you ma'am thank you for waiting so long I'm sorry all right thank you anyone else from the public wishing to speak see none yeah a motion second motion made by Mr David second Mr all in favor I motion to by the same I favor I I hi hi I I'll get that I'll See You in September as the song goes