[Music] good evening everyone good [Music] evening it's hard good evening and welcome to tonight's Caucus meeting adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public meetings Act pursuit to public laws 1975 said notice was advised in the asbery Park Press and the beacon and was posted on the bullton board showing the time and place of the meeting please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance iedge Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation God indivisible and justice for all it's so nice to have everyone on here and all these young ladies and coaches I'm just so happy and so proud okay have a proclamation for the sorry I don't know it's there it's on yes one second oh okay thank you so this Proclamation is for the Lacy American youth football and cheer Jersey Shore D14 elite team so is any of are any of those young ladies here right now could I have them just stand up the D14 so we know who you come and stand in the front here right up here okay just so we want to see you and and are there coaches here are there coaches here with them um they're so the Deep or te elite team is coached by um Jersey Shore coaches they represent Lacy Township for the entire Jersey Shore oh how wonderful thank you okay I'm going to read your Proclamation whereas the Lacy Township committee wishes to recognize the character talent and hard work exemplified by the Jersey Shore D14 Elite cheer team for their outstanding athletic performance and whereas each year the American Youth Football and cheer are asked to nominate cheerleaders who portray confidence spirit and positive attitudes qualities which are necessary to compete on an elite team team in this conference and whereas the Lacy Township ayfc cheer coordinator and D12 coaches nominated four girls to try out for the Jersey Shore elite team which requires eight hours of tryouts to Showcase their skills in tumbling stunting cheering and dance and require that each nominee to be able to adhere to rigorous practice schedule and set shining examples for their peers and whereas on September 2 the nominees received word that they had been selected for the Jersey Shore ayfl division 14 elite team they immediately began practice with the elite team each weekend while still fulfilling their responsibilities at the 12u Lacy ayfc football games and whereas on November 11th the girls represented Lacy Township on the Jersey Shore D14 elite team competing at the Big East Regional competition where they were named Big East Regional Champions and whereas the Jersey Shore D14 elite team continued to shine at the ayc National Championship in Orlando Florida on December 10th where they competed against teams from eight regions of the ayfc and took third in the nation the third in the nation for D14 Elite to level two and second in the nation for D14 level four team and whereas after a spectacular performance the girls will be combining and competing at level three team at the YCA da Global championship in Atlantic City now therefore to be resolved by the township Committee of lacy Township County of ocean state of New Jersey and the special recognition and accommodation to be given to the Jersey Shore D14 elite team thank you [Applause] [Applause] Eric do you want to move that microphone [Applause] my next Proclamation is for the level Lacy American Youth football cheer and Jersey Shore division 10 small level one okay Office of the mayor Proclamation whereas the Lacy you know what are these all our young ladies so that can we get you ladies all up here please let all up here so everybody can see your beautiful faces there it we don't have good stuff enough so this is good stuff everybody's got to get in there move that microphone but can you move the microphone and put it over to the side put it over to the side so everybody that wants to see them thank you watch your foot L right this listen up because this is all about you ladies okay whereas the Lacy Township committee wishes to recognize the character talent and hard work exemplified by the Lacy American youth cheerleading Division 10 competition cheer team for their outstanding athletic performance and whereas the Lacy youth football and cheer are part of the nja YF Jersey Shore conference with Big East conference of the National American Youth Football and American Youth Cheer with over 200 participants here in Lacy Township and whereas this commitment on the field and on the mats helped to build character self-reliance accountability teamwork discipline in our children which will serve them well as they advaned in life as proven by many Scholastic and professional successors of former Lacy lions and whereas the Lacy Lions division 10 competition cheer team competed at small level one at the local level competition on October 21st 2023 at Cure Insurance Arena in Trenton in front of hundreds of Spectators the team plays second in the date woohoo and advance to the regional competition and whereas the Lacy Lions division 10 competition cheer team captured third place in small level one on November 11th 2023 at the core Insurance Arena in Trenton and hit zero which means no points deductions from their routine against teams from New York Pennsylvania and Delaware fantastic whereas Lacy Division 10 competition cheer team Advanced to compete at the national competition located at Silver Spurs arena in Florida and competed against 19 teams and was in the top five who advanced on December 9th 2023 to compete on Super Sunday on December 10th and whereas after a spectacular performance and hitting zero once again the Lacy Division 10 team small level one placed fourth in the nation wooo and and now therefore be it resolved that by the Lacy Township Committee of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey that these spec special recognition accommodations be given to the Lacy youth football and cheer Division 10 small level one very [Applause] how about the coaches come up I'm going to give these to the coaches and you can give them out to all the young ladies thank you hey you [Laughter] two [Applause] [Music] beautiful thank you thank you next do the next one yes I will right I'd like to take a minute and just see if my um committee members would like to offer a comment to our cheerleaders before they uh head on out Deputy Mayor thank you mayor we'll get you out of here in a minute I say um proba speak for the whole committee but certainly myself um committee man dof and myself are up here and we are the two girl dads of the group so we only have only have girls and I think Mark excuse me a daughter you got a boy too so it doesn't count that's right doesn't count so and I think committee M dof also has a granddaughter so listen we're all about and I'm kidding because you know Steve's my brother over there and so's Timmy so and I'm telling you um anything with girl power we're all for so the the Girl Scout the Gold Award um you know what you girls have done the lacrosse all of the awards over the last 11 years that I've been up here and I know Mark's been up here longer than that um God bless you all and you all deserve it and go [Music] girls canis I just want to congratulate all all you girls uh it was an amazing accomplishment um you fin to finish this that high in the nation is really incredible and in the state um you should really be proud of yourselves a lot of hard work and to the parents and coaches as well I always want to mention the the the hours and all the time you put in to to get your girls prepared and get them the practices and stuff like that so you deserve a little recognition yourself so um congratulations to all of you very good back to you Mr D first of all girls rule boys rule I have I have nieces who who cheer um and I know firsthand the hard work that you all put in your parents your coaches it it's phenomenal I mean it's a lifestyle congratulations for what you've done it's great keep it up and it will lead you to great things thank you very much McDonald thank you mayor it seems every year we get a cheer group from this group that comes up here that does spectacular yep in the nation and in the state and that's a heck of a program down there when you can do that year after year after year and I'm sitting here looking at this I wrote some notes down third in the nation fourth in the nation that's mindboggling that's absolutely mindboggling and I'm going to tell these all these ladies who got these proclamations hang on to them because when you're a mom you're going to be able to tell your daughter look what I did right that's right best of luck to all of thank you thank you so so as a mayor and a woman I'm smiling ear to ear because I was one of those one time so I I have great memories I I tell you there's nothing better than having the opportunity to succeed in what do and they have succeeded and you should all be very very proud parents grandparents coaches everybody God bless them all and we're so proud to have you here in Lacy thank [Music] you okay I have another proclamation to give out okay this Proclamation the Lacy food bank from the office of the mayor whereas the Lacy Food Bank offers their food pantry and emergency food programs for families or individuals that are in need of assistance to meet their basic nutritional needs and whereas Joanne Curts a longtime resident of lacy Township has been volunteering for the Lacy Food Bank since 2016 putting in 30 hours per week to fulfill the Food Bank Mission which reads no one in Lacy Township should go to bed hungry and whereas the Lacy Town Lacy food bank has over 60 active volunteers who serve over 120 families monthly and provide emergency baskets for those who find themselves in an urgent situation where they unable to feed their family or themselves and whereas over five years over the last five years Joanne CTS took over the client base at the Lacy Food Bank maintained food bank records and implemented a new software program program which is still in use today whereas Joanne CTS was appointed director in 2020 where she assumed all the on-site responsibility with the help of Grants and was able to completely make over the Lacy food bank and whereas during covid a drive-through distribution was created and within the help of many dedicated volunteers the food bank never missed a distribution during those two years and whereas joeanne CTS un understands the critical importance of a well stock Food Bank through increasing volunteerism helping to obtain new refrigerators shelving and streamlining the storage and sorting process was able to increase the success of the Lacy food bank and whereas Joanne CTS has the ability to harness the resources the food bank needs to provide a wide variety of services to the citizens in need in Lacy Township whereas Joanne gives the gift of her time commitment and sets an example for all on how to volunteerism leads to positive Civic engagement and the betterment of our community now therefore I Peggy Su Juliano mayor of the township of lacy do on behalf of myself and the township committee hereby express our gratitude and thanks to Joe en certz for her dedicated service to the residents of lacy [Applause] Township [Applause] [Applause] get [Music] next now volunte because I couldn't do what I do without [Applause] everybody thank [Music] you hey guys we've got a cheer for this moment get close together here squish together so you can all get in the photo little guys in front hey coach how you doing Dave how you been right good to see you Bianca's taking a photo Bianca's taking a [Music] [Applause] photo [Music] [Applause] f okay I just okay okay thank you i' just like to offer if any of the um excuse me for one second just one second I know um if anybody from the food bank I know we have a couple administrators there H trustees there I don't know if anybody else would like to get up and speak they're more than welcome if they have anything they'd like to say but I would like to take a moment before I go further with my um cohorts here I call them um I just want to say we have been so grateful that you worked with us we really really appreciated everything you did especially Joanne you jumped right in and said yes and we really appreciated working this out and everything worked out fine and we're just the bottom goal is we all feel the same help just right we're just helping everybody that's it okay Deputy Mayor would you care to have any comments yes thanks mayor just I mean it's part of what makes Lacy great I know that the uh you know at the uh county level they they recognize your efforts at Meals on Wheels and I don't know that other towns have a food bank as active as we do nobody I mean there you go so I I mean we're really really proud of you because I know that there's there's kids on free and reduced lunch I know that there's need and I know that there's some people that are going to bed hungry so we try to govern with that in mind so what you do is God bless you thank you thank you very very much that's all mayor you Comm D please you know I don't think people realize what it takes to to do what you do that's right and just just an example of what makes Lacy great it's people who give you know um there's givers and takers and you're all givers and we thank you all for what you do and for for making Lacy great and and for all the Care you you put into doing what you do thank you very much thank you committee minut tennis thank you no just to Echo the same comments we're um extremely happy to have the Lacy food bank as active as it is it's you know and you're a volunteering a lot a lot of your time and it's getting harder and harder to get volunteers to do what you do so we really appreciate all the hard work you do for Lacy Township thank you McDonald thank you mayor um I have always said that without the volunteers food bank or whatever it may be we can't run this town we couldn't do what you guys do um and it's it's absolutely spectacular what you guys do and you're right no other town has this and when we go to different meetings with the county people they're always asking how do you guys run your town so well and I always say it's our volunteers because it's certainly not us okay it's always the volunteers that do the job so I want to thank you and wish you guys nothing but the best of luck thank you I just want to show you what they just gave us it's called the certificate of appreciation presented to Lacy Township 2023 friend to the needy that's what they just gave us how nice and thank you appreciate [Applause] it I'm going to make a motion to adjourn this section all in favor I okay that opens you up so you can take the children and go home because we know they have school tomorrow go get a ice ice cream for sure and thank you thank you yeah I got thank you I appreciate that pausing the T all right hang on hang on wait all right you're good ad adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public acts excuse me public meeting acts pursuit to the public laws of 1975 said notice was advertised in the Asbury Park Press and the beacon and was posted on the bulletin board showing the time and place of the meeting please rise for salute to the flag and a moment of silence I pray to the flag of the United States of America and to theic for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all okay first reading of ordinance 202 24-1 amending and implementing chapter 161 entitled deals in precious metals and other secondhand Goods ordinance in the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey amending and supplementing chapter 161 of the Township Code of the township of lacy entitled dealers and precious medals and other secondhand Goods reporting system this is an ordinance to amend how the township handles and reports secondhand dealers to be in line with the county move second Mr McDonald yes Mr kenis yes Mr diov yes Mr CA yes mayor Julian yes first reading of ordinance 202 24-2 amending and supplementing the township code to establish new chapter 300 entitled taxation ordinance of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey amending and supplementing the Township Code of the township of lacy so as to establish new chapter 300 entitled taxation this is to have an ordinance uh on the books for how we handle taxation move it second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis yes Mr diov yes Mr KIRO yes mayor Juliana yes resolution 2024-the the appointment of a full-time Public Safety telecommunicator resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the appointment of Linda M Gavin as full-time Public Safety telecommunicator trainee for the township of lacy move second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis yes Mr dof yes Mr K yes mayor Julian yes resolution 2024 67 amending an agreement with the Alamo group resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey amending an agreement with the Alo group for the for special project Engineering Services for the township of lacy this is because they had a name change in their business uh so instead of it being the Alo group it's now the uh Richard A Alo Associates move it second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis yes Mr diov yes Mr KOLO yes mayor Juliana yes resolution 2024-the a share Services agreement with the county of ocean for the F program resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the execution of an interlocal service agreement with the county of ocean for the prosecutor's FAST program fatal accident support team move it second Mr collo yes Mr Kennis yes Mr dof yes Mr McDonald yes mayor Juliana yes resolution 2024 69 requesting that the New Jersey DOT office of Maritime resources to dredge portions of the Ceda Creek resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey requesting the NJ Department of Transportation Office of Maritime resources to maintenance dredge portions of Cedar Creek to allow for safe navigation of commercial and recreational vessels move it second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis Mr doff yes Mr yes mayor Juliana yes resolution 2024-the establishing a change to the administration of permanently disabled veterans property tax exemption resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing and establishing a change to the administration of permanently disabled veterans property tax exemption P pursuant to njsa 54 4-3 move it second um Mr McDonald yes Mr kenis yes Mr diov yes Mr K yes mayor Juliana yes resolution 2024-the the refund of deposit monies resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the refunds of deposits held for the use of Municipal facilities move it second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis yes Mr dof yes Mr KOLO yes mayor Juliana yes resolution 2024-25 of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the payment of Township bills this is in the amount of 1,345 18951 move second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis yes Mr diov yes Mr Ciro yes mayor Julian motion to approve caucus minute meetings from January 11th 2024 move it second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis yes Mr dof yes Mr KIRO yes mayor julan yes motion to approve Township meeting minutes from January 11th 2024 second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis yes Mr dof yes Mr Ciro yes mayor Juliano yes motion to approve exe executive session minute meetings from January 11th 2024 move it second Mr McDonald yes Mr Kennis yes Mr diov yes Mr Hero yes mayor Juliano yes motion to approve the raffle license for Ceda Creek Elementary School PTA move it second Mr McDonald yes Mr kenis yes mrov yes Mr K yes mayor Juliano yes I have an on okay uh resolution 2024 74 resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey appointing Alan Baker as regular member to the Lacy Municipal Utilities Authority move second Mr McDonald yes Mr kis yes Mr dof yes Mr KIRO yes mayor Juliana yes this is just an oversight on the January 1 agenda we forgot to put it on so we're just moralizing it today thank you I'm okay I'm open I um opening the floor to comments from the public at this time come on name for the record just your name and that's it that's all we take from you no address no more Jay Wilson hi J uh I want to commend you people on the fantastic job you're doing running this town my husband and I moved here in uh November of 22 from Bergen County and it's amazing how well you people do things compared to up north Jersey we have a much bigger house here bigger property more resources and our taxes are $2,000 cheaper phenomenal thank you and Veronica you know your stuff thank you I want to thank everybody and yes we bought we moved in 2022 but we bought the house in 2005 oh okay so been summer with retirement in mind and never rented kept the house updated and everything else and once we saw what the town was like we decided that this is the place to be and it's the best move we made thank you very much keep up the good work thank you thank [Applause] you anyone else from the floor okay Regina danenza um first of all I would like to thank Amy for the website updates it was quite amazing I found all the minutes I was looking looking for thank you very much for that one little oversight with the missing pages I appreciate that very much um so I missed the last meeting and I had to watch it on video Mr Kenneth that was quite a disertation you gave last meeting so many facts and figures you gave on a project that for nearly 10 months the committee claimed they had no information they could share with the public what a load of baloney that was the committee knew a lot you had a full description of a dream a vision of grandor how nice and easy it is to spend the Public's money as far as the payments I do have a question was that $2.7 million figure you quoted the amount of the entire allowance under the 2% cap or was it a portion thereof it doesn't affect the 2% cap because it's would be deaded bonded or debted money as you would call it so there's only a small portion that would be inside the cap which would be operation costs and the rest of it is called Debt Service separate yes so the 2% cap doesn't apply to Debt Service even though we wouldn't quote unquote be going to bond for that it's still Debt Service I'm just curious how the 2.7 million was arrived at as a figure that you wanted to spend if you got it from the 2% or is made up no in two different portions as you just said okay and as for that rable Revenue you talked about more baloney 269,000 per year uh barely covers the salary of 2 and a half police Poli offices and they can hardly keep up with all the issues brought in by your Infamous ratables named Home Depot in Walmart and by the way I found Salt on the premises again that's not my job but I saw it and um now the public will never be able to believe anything you guys say again because you withheld so much information from us for nearly 10 months thank you for your comments anyone else like to come up to the microphone just state your name that's all Cedar creeking okay I on Cedar Creek um I'm just going to read this because I'm not really good at public speaking since the removal of the uh Cedar Creek flow Dam that is called the concrete we in 2014 large sand deposits have occurred in the stretch of Cedar Creek between Route 9 and the swimming beach it's become difficult to get my fishing boat out of Cedar Creek due to the extreme shallow water thank you the section of the creek need dredging Dudley continues to replenish the beach areas with sand which may be the cause of the new sand deposits I'm very familiar with the section of Cedar Creek and continue to be involved in the environmental projects and studies and since 1984 I've only had one boat and it's very shallow and I never had a problem until after the dam came out and the sand is now making it really shallow and the dangers at the swimming beach which have never been addressed by the lifeguards I keep asking them do you go in the water do you see all the trees that could hurt kids there's a spot that's way over my head and there's a spot ankles I walk the creek constantly I'll take it so there's route n this is these are my houses there's a sping Beach and this is where all the Sand's coming you're talking about that wear that is on the west side of Route n yes that's the federal or the state's thing it's gone yeah the state removed it they said they didn't need they removed it yeah on my properties in the creek it's I mean it's gone three feet I'm now lost so I've had a fishing boat there forever even though I'm the only one with a boat that goes past the swimming beach I'm just looking for that to be addressed if we're going to address yeah well there will be meetings and sit Downs with the state um wanted because it was a drudging thing never where's it's actually came from Berkeley Berkeley's asking us to support it with them um so Bill McGrath no no Berkeley Township itself BS on the water Council well no it came from the mayor May the mayor called me and asked me if we like so just know that it's not our sand that has ever affected that little area at the end the end where they say there's a giant thing the boats have gotten bigger I've been here since ' 84 come on they get bigger boats I go around the corner all of a sudden there's Yachts it used to be duck boats duck that little we talked about this years ago the place they want to keep dredging has been there for way before I ever bought near where bet leco houses and all that it's the same same same same and they're just claiming that the Weir and they've made it up and they put it in their water ccel notes and I've been actively involved with them and the gustau association and save barnegate Bay and I'm the only one left from Save Cedar Creek my parents did it for years before I inherited the job so I have all the maps I have all the history on Cedar Creek well why don't we sit down i' go through that so that we have that information once we get with the St but I just want to make sure that like everybody's clear on the history of this it's not just because when Mr McGrath who's the president of the Berkeley water Council he actually did my raran survey he's a surveyor and he said oh that Weir came out because it was saving the water from Dudley and it's like no that was because the Cranberry Bogs and it had nothing to do with it but they've made this new story up so don't buy it but I would be happy to share you all the information you have a we can get her number so that we all right thank you very much no problem thank you anyone else from the public that'd like to step up uh Steve Ball for River New Jersey I just want to make a comment I find it very hard to hear to Clerk and I'm sure other people are looking around I wish you would slow down talking and uh be a little bit louder just uh my recommendation uh just on the five minute leeway rule does that include what you guys got to say to me or just what I say that's what you said okay all right well I'm going to continue to be the spokesperson for all the Lacy Township taxpayers who have opposed the building of the new Municipal complex and now we want to know how this Township committee is Will justify spending taxpayers money 277,000 and what we got for it you can answer that when I'm done we also want to know truthfully truthfully truthfully the future intentions of this Township regarding what's next because the way it says in this paper uh new Lacy Town Hall stalled so stalled means that you're still going to do it so we want to know are you going to do it and why was this word put in here stalled and do we get the money back from Johnson we the people want the government to be honest and accountable to us your recent accountability has been a failure a failure of poor judgment poor legal guidance a lack of Common Sense a waste of taxpayers money and a failure to be straightforward with with us the taxpaying public so as a result of your dishonesty and not come and being straightforward we now have penalties a five minute penalty and a police officer outside there the result of you people not being straightforward for us not for us we react when you're untruthful misleading and don't tell us what you really intend by not properly informing the public ahead of time of your intentions this Township committee has lost Integrity believability and Trust there are those Among Us who want to sue the town Township committee to recover our $277,000 there are those Among Us that no longer believe the township committee there are those Among Us who no longer trust the township committee there are those Among Us that believe this Township committee is heading in the wrong direction and does not represent the best interest of the taxpaying [Music] public this is how we feel and we want change we want transparency we want this Township committee to put the public first stop unrealistic ideas of spending and stop being controlled by a Township employee since time is short I want to ask Mr Kennis about the statements he made in the paper uh the Southern Ocean County Times specifically on page 16 in fact I brought a paper up Mr Kennis and you can answer the questions when I get done if you like but you're uh and I want that back you're on page 16 so as usual Mr Kenna's statement as I read them are incomplete misleading and need complete clarifications you know what is meant by payment to Johnson of 3.2 million what goal is 2.7 how did Mr Ken has conclude payment of 3.2 would equalize 434 on a $550,000 assessment or reassessment does Mr Johnson include interest to the Johnson on the 3.2 million is the 3.2 million an annual payment for 30 years totaling $96 million or 2.7 million million over 30 years that equals $81 million do these figures include air conditioning heat maintenance cost and insurance Mr Bley I don't I I just want to tell you your five minutes is up just give me a minute I want to see if anybody else would like to speak and I'll let you finish what you have to okay I'll come back up all right let's just see if there's anybody else that would like to speak from the audience [Music] good evening Madame mayor members of the committee Lacy citizens I'm going to have to come up again because I have I already know it's going to be on this time but first of all I'm going to start off where I ended up the last time it was totally rude for you Mr doff to cut me off and for the mayor to allow him just because you do not want to be held accountable for your actions did it ever occur to you that even if the sale of the community house property is legal which is very questionable that maybe just because you could do something does not make it right quite frankly I'm ashamed of this government body for thinking that you could sell this property and put a sign on another and claim you are fulfilling the resolution of the gift of the property to the town from the Charles A Smith Association to me it's a fraud and it's dishonorable and immoral I would expect my government to honor its commitments especially those made when something like this was given to the town for the residents for social and educational purposes let me be clear when I say this when you destroy your history you have no future practically every single historical building in this town has been bulldozed and now you want to do the same to the warden house it's absolutely shameful one must look at themselves in the mirror and ask and I am I an honorable being can you do that and stand up here here and do something like this when does dignity end and rectitude begin I have a question can the warden house be moved honestly I you know we I think we tried we asked the county if they would uh think about it and they said they couldn't move it so why couldn't it be moved I I guess because it's a high risk to move it well I beg to differ I have a document here from scope engineering which states the building is structurally sound and can be moved they did an inspection on January 3rd 2024 and here is a copy for your records so according to them the warden house can be moved we don't have to destroy another historical building in this town so that you can overdevelop build ugly modern buildings do you know that the historical part of a community with its elderly buildings brings dignity to our community everything new is not necessarily beautiful I just want you to remind you of that all the overdevelopment and all the projects that you've got moving forward the traffic that it's bringing to the town and will continue to bring to the town is Destro destroying the quality of the life in this community it is so different than when I moved here 18 years ago I don't believe that that's progress that's regress to me and I will come back and give the rest of my comments after whoever is going to speak after me thank you vendor Barry Bender somewhere in Lacy Township um mine's more to speak about a I guess the term functional as opposed to the other issues that are out here I've been coming to these meetings since 2001 and there was a brief period of time uh when they changed things up and the committee spoke after the public and it was just for a very brief period of time but in my opinion I'm just going to give you opinion I think it's wrong because when the public speaks the committee can converse with the public when the committee speaks there's no conversation from the public and to me that kind of says okay we're going to talk at you okay and you're going to listen and you're going to have to wait two weeks to say anything about what we say so my opinion is I don't know where the idea came from and it was was a very brief time a number of years ago where they did this but my personal opinion it's wrong that the the uh public should speak last just giving you my opinion thank you you're welcome thank you any anyone else from the public that'd like to speak I'd like to know if anybody looked into the microphone into the intersection of hanne street and Lake Barnegat where the children have to cross the street cross the street yes yes we have so you're talking about the um the side where the rentas and the brushies live there is no additional right of way for us to um put sidewalks in there without going through eminent domain and taking those front yards from those um individuals so my disabled veteran husband has to walk there I'm not well I'm just you asked me if I looked into it yes I have I we haven't made a decision if we were going to look to go into acquiring um additional Properties or not to to establish um sidewalks there so I did talk to an engineer yesterday about um safe routes to schools that doesn't qualify for that because it does it's not on a road with an elementary school so it that doesn't qualify but he is looking into a a possible another grant that might be possible to get that so it is something that you know we have to sit down and see if the committee wants to um propose some money towards it in this coming Year's budget to see if we want to acquire it but it could be a battle because we have to be taking of property on both sides of the street to work that out okay Barber Smith's mailbox has already been hit yeah I know I know yes she's afraid to get her mail um why are the children that live on Jacqueline courts lives more important than the children on Lake barnegate the children on Jacqueline Court get a bus the children on Lake Barn you have to take that up with the schools that's not our jurisdiction not our jurisdiction okay and then the children just so you know the children that do live on Lake Barnette if they take a late bus they drop them off on Jacqueline court and force them to walk there sow sidewalks you have to definitely take that up with the school we don't we don't we're not involved in that part of it I took this up with the school 20 years ago when my son had to cross and they got a bus on to Lake Barnette so that's what I would do then go they need to go back there and the parents need to get together and go over there and force the hand as they say all right next meeting excuse it okay thank you February is the next school board I I I don't okay um also um Amy I talked to you uh earlier this week the links on all your email addresses are incorrect cor they've been changed it looked into it they're fixed okay thank you okay thank you anyone else from the public Mr B you like to come back up oh I'm sorry come on speak from here I have a loud voice sure you sure may excuse me who are you I live in for River and I'm very sad to hear what's happening with the community I have here in town longer than most of you I'm sure my grandmother was born in this town in 1886 so we had very deeps here I wish you would consider this I know I I don't know at what stage you are at exactly and selling this is it a done deal or not yes yes it is it is a done deal yes so my voice is in vain I'm sorry to hear it and uh you know what they say we go again yeah thank you anyone else from the public Linda Miller for River could you could you just move a little closer to the microphone it's hard Linda Miller forkit River um I'd like to um let everyone on um our Council here know that I agree wholeheartedly with what um Steve has said what Rick has said and Barry so I won't go o over all that I'm just in agreement as a citizen here thank you thank you you Steve barl again uh before uh the mayor answers the uh stalled uh question and Mr Kennis answers the questions I'm going to ask him I just like to give a a brief history in fora River for many many many years the Catholic church had a recreation center somehow it got knocked down I'm here I'm asking the township committee why don't you go to the Catholic Church they got plenty of money they don't pay taxes and ask them to construct a new recck center for the township kids and for the adults we played there for years basketball and they had a wait room and so on and so forth and it's gone so that might be opportunity for the township to defer some of this crazy money they want to spend and have the church put a Rec Center up and I'm sure it would be be good for their for the church also I also would like to say we researching the police headquarters and the second story I got information not confirmed that when uh Chief dmy was here there was an agreement to put a second story on the police station and that they had grant money of over $3 million to do it some political uh issues came up and it wound up getting tabled so the fact that there can't be a second story put on that police station is totally untrue okay Mr kenis you're you want your information or you got it all in your head you good I may answer I may not answer you what I may answer I may not answer question well that's that's part for the course no nothing new by saying that okay Mr Ken your statement is incomplete misleading and needs complete clarification what do you mean by the payment of to Johnson for 3.2 million is that annual monthly or total what is it that's annual annually so 30 time 3.2 million is how much like 90 million 96 million and you were the one one of the ones chastising me for bringing up the $100 million and you're right at 96 you had it much higher than that but I'm not going to argue with you okay I'm not here well well you know what I'm here to argue because you people make me argue I'm not here on my own accord I'm here on a reaction to try to save this Township from crippling uh uh property taxes okay my family owns Six houses in this town and I'm fighting first for my family and then I'm fighting for all the rest of the taxpayers that number one there's nothing wrong with this building number two a second story could put on the police station and a recck center could be asked with the Catholic church that's my position when they denied the Second Story on the police department way back when Unfortunately they re redid the plans it was also supposed to be an L-shaped building that came out into the um by the tower there and when the governing body at that time wouldn't move forward with that they redesigned those plans and built what we have today and it doesn't it's not engineered for a second story all I know is that they could put they could put a second story on that building you are correct that there was supposed to be a story you're entitled to your opinion I'm telling you mine they could put a second story on that building not tamper with the dirt not cost us extra money and have the police be able to function properly so Mr Kennis you concluded that the 3.2 million would equal 400 6 $434 on a $550,000 assessment what's that mean wait a second first of all I said that was the number that we're presently working with from Johnson and that's not the number that we're comfortable with what's the number you're comfortable with I told I I stand by my comments last week round we're hoping to get the number around 2.7 million 2.7 million and you're still pursuing this we're paused right now pausing for for how long don't know we don't know so I got to come to every meeting then you're welcome to come to as many meetings as you want Mr s you cannot do you include we're not having that here while somebody's up at the microphone if you want to speak you come up to the microphone and that's where you can talk does Mr Kennis include interest in uh Johnson's $3.2 mil million uh annual cost us you keep saying 3.2 and um and it's not the number that we're agreeing to to which is why we're paused but yes does that include interest correct okay at what percentage I don't remember I don't recall you don't remember okay do do these figures include air conditioning heat maintenance cost and insurance yes or no yeah oh it does don't they TR you got you got a breakdown on all that you could bring the next meeting bullet point by bullet point what the building cost what it's going to cost the heat what I stand by my comments last week and I'm not do what you want it's in the paper they're qu and I'm stand by my com yeah they pulled that com him to quot yeah that was quoted from the last meeting the transcript from the YouTube meeting and I'm standing by my comments last meeting okay so watch the tape okay Mr kenis concludes that the justification for the 3p P3 model came by Shifting the risk and a financial burden on the private developer I don't know if that's a misspelling but instead of private developer you should have put taxpayers of lacy Township that are going to shoulder this burden that that that company's going to reap millions of dollars of our tax money and interest now you all you further go on Mr Kennis about your math and I question your math yes maybe we would see a million dollars every four years in property taxes collected but at the the same fouryear period we us would be paying $12 million in in in uh to to finance the uh complex so you might say the township would save a million but we be paying 12 so yes so if you allow me to answer go ahead so this is you can answer I don't dis well you keep interrupting me I'm I'm only a taxpaying citizen inter all I am right I don't pay any taxes here what you what let me just Mr B we've been through this before you ask a question you have to allow them to answer the question if you don't I can only assume two things you don't care to get an answer or you don't want anybody else to hear what the answer is I want the answers okay well then give an individual an opportunity I apologize Mr canis thank you could you continue yes so and I've meent I've said this many many times our the biggest portion of our budget is is salaries pension and uh healthare um this is a fixed cost item that will be paid off in approximately between 30 and 40 years depending on the terms of the of of of the agreement if we go forward then that that that comes off the book so to speak the point I was making about the property taxes that were losing on this building is in perpetuity it's forever so right now we're getting zero dollar in tax money off of this property if there were commercial property here we'd be getting collecting that money forever and that would money be it would be increasing every year because our property taxes go up every year that's the point I respectfully disagree with everything you say your time your your five minutes are up my five minutes are up yes please is there anybody else that would like to speak from the audience J Wilson no disrespect to anybody here but if these people feel that they could do a better job than you guys are doing throw your hat into the ring yep exactly because I think you guys are like I say from the past two towns I've lived in in Burger County you guys are phenomenal okay appreciate it you're you're I feel that you're telling the people things you tabled it okay it's a dead deal now it's tabled when it if it comes back up then we talk about it okay so thank you you guys keep up the good work thank you no we don't get to come up again third time um is anybody else coming up Mr bidnick well Mr bidnick do you plan to come back up yes okay come on up yeah just let come just let I'd like to just take a minute and this isn't on your time Mr all to to say the reason we are choosing to have your comments first and not ours because as you can see it's a combative thing there's we're not we're not getting anything done by the combating okay it's just it's just like beat beat and beat so if you have a question ask the question and allow us to answer don't come at us the whole time we're trying to answer you and then maybe you won't like the answer you get but at least you'll get an answer you talking to B I'm talking to everybody okay is that a movie comment you were looking at me give me a complex but anyway Steve B I'll back um I'm sorry that that last speaker is probably a little bit confused or something thinking that it's tabled it's not tabled so I would like the mayor to explain what their intentions are what are you planning to do and why does it say that it's just stalled okay so first of all the comments that must have gone into that paper they did did not interview any one of us none of us got interviewed so whatever they put in that paper didn't come from us it didn't they didn't come they didn't come and talk to us so how can it be what I said or Mr Kenne said or Mr McDonald said Mr Ken didn't say any of that in public that I'm aware of I 100% said in public watch public I said it last week I have still have my notes I'll read them at the at the end if you want me to again the meeting I did last I did last meeting me you this is again I'm gonna do it again just for you just for you I'm going to do it again my exact comments from last week two weeks ago he did two weeks ago it was ready yes it was did yes it was I think you need to go back to the video he did was it was it was okay so that that's number one but let's just get to the fact it is tabled the the the the the building is tabled we are not doing anything about it right now what's that mean it means that we're we're looking at other options we're looking at other ways to do maybe get to do something okay we cannot okay so I'm going to tell you something about my police station this past week they flooded this past week okay I had to have all my DP DPW guys over there on Saturday morning trying to bail out water okay so you know you can't you can't just stand there and tell me that you you are not an engineer so you don't know that we can put a third story on there okay but that's your opinion and you're entitled to it as I am entitled to my opinion okay and this isn't an argument this is this is what what I was trying to stop this back and forth and back and forth it's it's ridiculous we we said at the last meeting that we are not going further at this time with the building because the numbers were more than we expected so that's the end of that it doesn't need to keep coming up and saying what are we hiding we're mistruths we we discussed it saw the numbers and said no this doesn't work for us that's what we said just let me piggyback on that so we are working with the third party I don't want to talk about it because it's again it's preliminary this stuff happens all the time in Township townships we have meetings with developers and and uh you know different entities and right now we're negotiating sort of with somebody that might be willing to sort of partner on a wreck building so that's that's number one the second thing is that we that we can't talk about for example is you know we met with orad multiple times over the last three years they we're negotiating with them um for host Community benefit we can't talk about it because first of all it's it's contractual but you can't talk about it in public so um there's a lot of those are things we just can't tell you everything that goes on because it's you know that information is it's not it's not you can't bring it up to the public all the times for something like orad it's yeah you can't speak out of term for something like for orad it's it's because it's a negotiation ultimately if we if we struck an agreement with oret then it would be made public and then everybody could comment on it and then then if anybody didn't like it yeah then we would listen and maybe we wouldn't go through it or something like that but we can't cannot talk about the terms of contracts until they're I don't say finalized they not finalized till we vote on them but until there's some sort of agreement on the terms of the contract we can't talk about the Union contract it's you know you wouldn't want us to sit here and say hey this is what we're looking to do with the Union contract because then it's on TV and then the union comes in and knows our strategy or our side of the thing so it's you can equate it to that that we would be talking out front here about employee union contracts and what our strategy is and what the give backs we're looking for and everything else you don't do that in public and then you know you can't you have to come up to the microphone St post what what I what I don't understand though like all right so you're you're saying that it's tabled right until you decide exactly what you're going to do and there's certain things you can't talk about but why I mean what exactly are you you discussing or thinking about at this moment this is really I think what the public looking to hear because if you're are you looking at alternate means of still doing what your intent what your intent is is to build a new building at some point you're negotiating the numbers so you're lessening uh the amount of rooms or or the materials you're putting into the project to get that dollar figure down but you're still going to go through with it at this point right now no we have not we have not said to our we we were so discouraged by the numbers that we got that we just said let's take a break right we just said let's just table this for right now and you know rethink this through maybe come up with different ideas as Mr Kennis just was telling you we're we're looking we've talked to a couple people about partnership with a recreation center okay so these are all things that we're still working on but when when people are upset that we're not bringing everything out to the public you know this stuff goes on all the time whether it's business or Township this stuff goes on all the time we don't sit here every day and tell everybody what all is going on okay I think with with with the past history though history what PT P history where you had said that you made a mistake with not being so Clairvoyant with the with the people that you know and that was a wrongful move on on the on the committee's part that you wouldn't go in that direction moving forward now now that it's tabled you don't want to go back there and you don't want to make those same mistakes over again so not children and and we know that we don't want to go back there and make those same mistakes again okay so we we again we're in this position so that we can get together and make some decisions but right now this is tabled and we are not moving forward with building a building at this point okay okay I can't say that we might not do it a year from now and talk about it or two years from now and talk about it three or three months from now right we don't know but when but when those thoughts occur I I already told Mr you'll share them with the public I did I said okay thank you yes I said I I said that at the last meeting I told Mr barl that if we come decide to make any other moves with this we would be out here telling you about it what we're what we're looking at we can't give all the details up because it's all you know there's contracts you have to be very careful there information we just can't you know just get out know it's not it's not details nobody's looking for details well they are looking for details want to know for Det moving forward so they so they feel more confident what the direction you're going so I'm going to answer your question just a little bit bro in Broad Strokes we have our budget me i' been I'm doing budget meeting we have budget meetings are are held separately from our Township meetings right we do them every February March or something like that so now I'm going in I think my 11th year of doing a budget meetings we get nobody from the public coming to those budget meetings and I'm not criticizing I probably wouldn't come I'm not wait well they're not 3:00 in the afternoon but anyway beside the point they're at five you can make time you make time for this you can make time for that but whatever so nobody comes to those budget meetings and so you which essentially is yeah we're being we're elected to make decisions on the budget and we have to boil down every year it's like $25 million in capital spending right we have to generally boil that down to a very low number to because we can't afford $25 million in in budgeting so so any of the you know Capital project you see uh for like this new building if we do it is is a it's just a capital it's a capital item like every other Capital item in the budget it's it's we've do this all the time we purchased the Knights of the Columbus building with I say little input we you know we negotiated and sold uh the property to Walter's homes without without much input we on a lesser extent we purchased the wibbit um uh with little public input because not because we don't want to I appreciate your I appreciate the comments that are made I've been here for 50 years I went to all the schools here I pay a lot in property taxes myself believe me when I tell you if there's anybody that does not want their taxes to go up it's me I promise you so but however I've watched over the years we SN money nobody we don't ever touch the buildings never so I've watched over the years we when we do put money we're about to do it again which I don't want to talk about yet because it's not finalized but we're about to do it again on the Food Bank building the roof needs to be replaced that is going to be I don't want to say anything yet because I'm waiting I'm waiting on my comment on that but but anyway we're going to be spending an I have a feeling an awful lot of money on an old building so anyway the my point is that this you know yes I understand how hard it is you know talking about maybe replacing this building and like I said it's not 100% that we're going to go do that we need the revenue that we need every bit of Revenue we can and when at those budget meetings it's all spending that's all we do is spend and nobody pays attention to the revenue I pay attention to the revenue I'd rather get the money from developers and new people that come to town as opposed to get that to beating everybody over the head that's been here a long time that's my opinion on it nobody pays attention to the revenue I understand where you're going with that and and appreciate it but like just like dis building alone like let's just say and and the adjoining property of the police department right you're you're really going on Wing a prayer that you're going to be able to sell this you I mean it's a great idea but let me ask you something what if it never sells what if you really have to get you'd have to find somebody that'd be willing to either take this building down build a new building right or you'd have to be find somebody to be willing to renovate it now if you're unwilling to renovate it for the cost that you're saying it's going to cost to renovate why would somebody else come in here and do that we have other properties down Lacy Road you can't that are that you can't even uh they they can't even get somebody to come in and lease a small space how are you going to get somebody to come in and take over like this would be you'd have to find maybe an attorney or or maybe a doctor that would come in subdivide this into sepal offices you'd have to Market it there'd be marketing costs involved I mean you really you're you're getting into something that you're unsure of in hopes that you're going to draw renov Ren of you from it to help offset the cost of the new building and and if you don't have the money for the new building right what like what is preventing you can you if you had to if you had to renovate this building and like I said two meetings ago sell that property all right as your rable and bring the pr police station over here right your police station wouldn't be up to Doc requirements at that point you have plenty of space here so now like I said before you're only committed to possibly selling one property right over there in which you might sell you might not but at least you don't have two hands two different properties that this is all one piece of land it's not two separate Bots and blocks you can subdivide it no no you could but are you when you say to renovate this building and bring the police over here are you talking about putting an addition on this building to fit the police here absolutely okay I just want absolutely and and I and I spoke to Architects about it already I deal with Architects every week and I deal with townships and that's what I do I I build municipal buildings and I build police stations okay and I build schools and this the way this this building is set up with the elevator system it can easily be worked out with the police station can be attached to the back and it meets it will meet the doc requirements and if you're worried about like even here the low ceiling everybody wants the grand ceiling in in the courtroom you could take the ceiling up if you want to structurally you can do it you can add you have the room out the side what I'm just saying is is that with would you have the money can you obtain the funds to make this building happen if you had to can you somehow obtain those funds or are you saying to the public we don't have it and the only way we can really get what we want is to work a deal out with Johnson Controls on the other project you you talked about again you you're you're making my point what you talked about was spending and I'm not saying this is going to happen we're talking there's no re your your idea still has no Revenue coming out of here the property next door the police station that that's a that's a big lot if you subdivide it even if you put an addition on this building that's a big lot that's your that's your your R there I'll listen to any ideas like I said we're paused on that right now we're waiting on on on on if we have a partner on a wck building or not that's where we're kind of at right now but going back to my question if you had to if it was if it was possible to renovate this building can you obtain the funds to do it well you could renovate anything said it would be the same thing it would be a line item in the budget I said you can do anything you know Mr B's not wait we could put two three St just about bonding it's just about B it's the same thing it's just a just just spending if you if you think it's just a fundamental disagreement and again if the numbers don't work over there they don't work but if you think that it would be better to to use taxpayer it's the same thing taxpayer money to renovate this building as opposed to what I would rather do is build new we don't agree I said I I so I'm not saying it would never happen like that would this wouldn't be renovated yeah it might I said I don't know like I said but right now we're this is the option we're P we're looking right now well this to to to do this I can tell you right now to renovate this building and add the additions would be a fraction of the cost compared to adding whole new complex out there civil civil just civil you know you're in the business wait a second you're also it's also that you got to separate out the wreck building so that's you know well I'm just it's a similar it would be similar that's the thing it' be similar renovating this site would be similar to building new okay building new would be more it would be more this would be between land clearing between Geotech between between civil drawings me structural yeah I go right down the line yes it's expensive I'm not saying it's not this would be expensive though it would be not I said barnga Township had was did the same problem with the Edwards school they came to the same conclusion they were going to renovate the Edwards school what did they do to the Edwards school do you know where the Edwards school is no I don't okay the Edwards school was an old historic it was probably the first school in the area or something like that so was on Route N I think it was two summers ago or they went through the whole engineer studies rehabed the building they the building was abandoned probably 10 years ago or something like that so you know it was a two-story building old it was historic essentially so they they did their engineering studies they were coming out with numbers I had there was an article somewhere uh I forget what it was I forget off the top of my head you know 2530 million just to renovate it and it wouldn't be that was just to get it up to today's codes or something that they knocked it down all right well i' like I said I'm not say I said I understand the concern but I said I'm concerned I I you know I'm concerned as well like I said I know what we do at our budget meetings and and I can talk about our spending and and the problems in our budget all day but I'm not and uh but there's big there's big problems in our budget that are not addressed you know they're not all right I can't talk about them at this meeting but there are problems in in probably every Town's budget I can't talk about all them I I said I I I had mentioned that um a couple weeks ago that I thought that uh a wise thing to do would be a cost analysis professionally cost analysis between this building and a new building which you never did I mean we did that we did that report you said that you had a you had a company command do evaluation on HVAC no no we had the report is online on our website that tnm Associates did for us to put an addition on for the space that we need and the cost to do that outside of knowing what any environmental issues are was $34 million oh I didn't know that yes it's right on our website I mean obviously you have some knowledge to read that I I didn't know that so it was $34 million so well that's what I'm saying though I mean if if if that building is going to cost $34 million over there I would say go ahead do it at that point I really would because I would say you're right let's not stick $34 million in an old building right you can turn it when you have a rable here and I would say if you can make that work for $34 million then yeah I would say right yeah go ahead and do it this has and again I just want make then you have rbl if we're not comfortable with our finances we're not going to do it said that from begin yeah we have you said it from the beginning number let me just let me just say one thing if I met CU I was the mayor last year when this broke into the news two days later I got three phone calls from Big developers wanting to know if this was actually going to happen and I said I don't know I said and they said well we would be interested in buying this pce of property three within 24 hours big-time developers who have the money the lawyers to come in here and do this and I even told them what kind of development I'm not going to housing no no these these these were Developers $1 million projects these weren't Small Time developers and we're zoned Municipal land here so we would have to rezone this and I even and I even told them it was built on on a dump and you know what they said to me no big deal no big deal I was completely honest with up front and I they said oh we'd like to get news on us I said watch the newspapers because that's where it's going to be and they said okay so three we in 24 hours call me Big Time developers that had the that had the wherewith all to do this oh why like I don't mean to cut you off I don't make really quick this will be just a second but this this what I mean this is why I don't understand you know what you're telling me now right with the developers is new news to me you know I mean if if you tell the people about this stuff and you add that to we have said that before I'm not I can't I'm not going to disclose who they were they asked me not to no nobody's asking to disclose any names because this is the this is the main road in in in dely this is what 6 Acres what is it eight eight acres here yeah so you theie we might have an opportunity we did say this we had we've been saying you might not have beening this the parkway I have to show up to more of your we've been saying we redevelop all of this property that's been the plan since day one day one absolutely and we also said and I said it if I said it once I said it 100 million times if the numbers didn't work we wouldn't do it and the number numbers didn't work and the other part of this which a lot of people don't realize we were under a non-disclosure agreement because a lot of the stuff that Johnson Controls was giving us was proprietary yeah okay so they said no you can't talk about it yeah it it puts us in a in a bad spot no question about it would I have loved to have talked about it of course I would have I would have reduced attention but I wasn't allowed they just released us I think in December to start talking about this thing so I mean you look you're in the business you know yeah it's the proprietary thing I don't yeah it's a little crazy it's crazy for that reason I would have backed out the deal alone all right thank you very thank you thank you Mr bck okay part two excuse me for one second I just like to say the reason he was longer is we stopped the clock every time Mr Kenneth spoke I wanted you to know that that we didn't give him more time then he was allotted every time I do that with each person right if if one of us speak we stop the clock so that you're getting your proper time go ahead okay so I'd like to start off with at the last meeting Madame mayor you said about all the division that is caused in this town you know by what was happening here and you know who caused this division it was this body I want you to take responsibility for the division that you have caused in this town by hooking up with a company a proprietary company called Johnson Controls which wouldn't allow you to release any information to the public but yet you wanted the public to have to possibly spend $81 million because that's what you were willing to go to I think that that's not only the lack of transparency I just think that you guys need to take responsibility for your actions all of you and say and an own up to it like adults that you caused a division you tried to Gaslight the public at the last meeting and saying that you felt unsafe that's why we have a police officer here I let me finish I'll say this the behavior of several people that sit up here was a threat to the public just so you understand the gaslighting is not appreciated I just want you to know that in the five minute rule you're causing more division by having a FIV minute rule I don't really think you understand I don't think you understand the perception outside where people think that this has become an author Arian type of regime and your edicts are they're just being felt in a very negative way if you want to build community and make people feel like we're in this together you have to take you can't do this stuff it's it it's creating the complete opposite reaction so I want you to rethink your five minute Rule and about the way that you're doing things so we can get back to having serious discussions because we're going to have to about a lot of the things that are going to be heading up in the future that is my request I hope that you will take it under consideration I did ask for a code of conduct for the behavior of this body and what we got was a five minute rule a change in the order of the minutes the meetings and having a police officer here that was not what I had requested just so you know now I want to go on to the Johnson Controls thing because this is there's just questions that have that are mind-boggling to me so we are going to have to pay them $234,000 according to the contract and that money is money that I had to pay every single person that's sitting here who's a property holder had to pay because of a mistake that you made and you know there are people that are thinking of fing a legal action a class action lawsuit against this body for what you did I just want you to know that it's like um you can't go around and do these things and then you don't even own those plans because they're proprietary so we got nothing out of this I just want you to know I'm angry about the way that you handled the whole situation the lack of transparency the way certain people on this body have behaved toward the public now Mr dof was quoted on Lacy New Jersey Facebook page saying that all the public opposition to this project had absolutely no impact on the decision to drop this project and I want to know if that's the way that each one of you feel because if that's the way you do then we realize that you are the enemy of the people because you're not listening to the people and you don't care about how we feel our struggles in this community and maybe you should start listening to the people that have come here and talked about the issues in this town along your Beach area I've had to listen meeting after meeting why aren't we doing something about that those are the issues that people have come here and complained about nobody in this town is complaining about wanting a new Township Building that's what you want your desires that is not what our desires are our desires actually are to stop this overdevelopment I hate the traffic and you people are not doing anything about it but you know what when you wanted that road to nowhere that goes beyond Behind Home Depot you fought the public year after year after year and you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills but you will not fight these developers when they try to break every variance and you know what you could allow these Builders to come in but you could say to them you have to stay strict to the variances and the zoning propositions that we have you just approved another thing on Max Drive I I just have to cut you off there I apologize you keep saying you said this before that we should not allow variances no I didn't say that I said we have to follow the variances we have to follow the variances you didn't follow the variances your house was built with a variance my house I know you're the exception no that is not the case my house is the property that I bought is a pie-shaped lot in this town excuse me I did not break any setbacks like you're allowing to go on with some of these projects that you're doing what I'm asking is that you stick to what is on the books okay when it comes to the setbacks okay your five minutes is up more division Mr Bender I say my name again sure Mr somewhere in Lacy Township Barry Bender um I've seen articles written over and over and over again okay and we've gone through it here numerous times I've been here since 1988 the chase for ratables everything I've read gets you nowhere okay because the just when I moved to the this town my taxes were ,000 a year they go up we add ratables they go up we add ratables they go up as far as I'm concerned all that they're doing is I won't use the word I was going to use messing up traffic on Route n okay and I know there's laws that stop us from stopping etc etc etc but for the township to go forward and say anything that we own on Route 9 and Lacy road we want ratables well I'm sorry the ratables may be nice but the traffic is worse I'm losing my microphone we're GNA adjust it I know how to do those as far as as the uh budget meetings I worked at a previous job years ago before you were on the board and I used to come to all the the budget meetings where I work now okay I have to take time just like if I wanted to go to a meeting in the county they hold their meetings at 4 4:00 in the afternoon can't do it now okay I'd like to be coming to budget meetings and see what you're doing but I or I have I have to work our budget meetings are not at four they're usually at five usually I don't know if they've ever been at but whatever I get here at 65 yeah all right I'm just I'd get here at 6:15 but after I'm interested in the budgets because I saw things that went on in the past and there was a gentleman that used to come with us here who actually I think is now the accountant down in barnegate and he would give us information about this kind of thing because it was something where money taking from an over whatever from the schools Etc I mean I learned a lot of a lot of things coming to the budget meetings but I wish I could be here for the budget meetings um but I think the point that Mr Excuse me for a second uh the point that Mr Kenneth was trying to make is that we literally have no one here right on budget meeting nights okay but I've come to Township committee meetings here in the past where it was myself and Regina exactly those are the only people in the room I was looking for a mouse to make noise okay seriously but but it's gotten to a place where we want I think if I could I'd be here here right we' okay more people here the you know they have opinions we're not you know and along the same lines okay in those times when it was Virginia and myself here there should be a heck of a lot more people coming to these meetings because this is where the rubber meets the road okay and people need to know what's going on so but anyway thank you just wanted to share thanks very much thank you than you sir okay is there anybody else that would like to speak J just one thing think of the you're getting excise I was just going to say you're getting some exercise the up and down always good it kind of offsets the mental stress a little bit but anyways uh Steve borl here for the third time uh just uh I would like the mayor to to explain what they're going to tell the public how they're going to pay uh the $243,000 and did you also already pay the $34,000 for the engineers report that's uh collecting dust in the back room well I mean it's it's part of our you know the plan we we have no choice can I say something there sure I'm sorry Mr barl listen it's just a way if it's all right with the mayor I mean you're walking away and she's talking I mean we're all just trying to okay okay all right okay sorry about that what I miss than you my brothers and sisters in here will tell me what I missed okay when you when we went into the the contract of this to investigate into what we wanted we are responsible for that $243,000 I mean it's part of our responsibility but that goes on all the time I mean that I'm not talking about just La Township that goes on all the time whether it's big business or another Township that you you go into these situations and you you know these people aren't going to do that work for nothing let's be honest that's not that that's not the way you wouldn't do a job for nothing I wouldn't do a job for nothing they go into it this is part of our responsibility may I yes you I've said this last meeting or the meeting before we we spend money on engineering every year uh Millions actually probably about a million maybe a little less but anyway sometimes we use those plans and sometimes we don't case in point the railroad right away was engineered for the entirety um and obviously we did not build the entirety of it so if if that ever does get completed we'll have to do the engineering all over again so this is not you know it's not an uncommon thing we do it all the time okay and previous administrations have done it all the time you don't always when you try and plan for stuff and some and if you can't get to it in time you can't get to in time or something happens then you have at some point you have to redo the plans because the rules change and as far as what you the plans that for the 34,000 that we went out to get an idea of what it would cost to redo that's already been paid so that's been done to yes sure does everybody notice how nice me me and Mr B getting along so nicely he just I don't I I I don't think that's going to happen uh two things when I when I go around town I talk to a lot of people my wife always tells me to shut up but I keep talking I pay for that but you know anyways um anyways what guy came back to me uh when I talked to some people and you can answer it's two questions is the township has their own engineer and and my people asked me to ask you guys how come that Township engineer didn't do the uh write up on this building for the addition and that and why did we have to pay an outside firm the engineering firm that performed the services is part of our engineering pool we have eight engineering companies that we utilize that have Specialties in all different are right we didn't just so our Engineers weren't qualified well not they are our Engineers tnm Associates is our engineer better the township engineer that did that no no wait no are they one eight they're one of eight they're one of eight we had eight different engineering firms they're not on retainer r eight of them are they no for project thank God project for project okay now you know when I look at a um challenge or you know something a mountain I got to climb or something I really look at how feasible it is why should I do it and what information I have in my hand that makes me second guess and I've been saying all along and I was I was really appalled that this pp3 project the public private partnership has been on the books for five years and no other municipality board into it right there would have stopped me in my tracks it's because when they first when they first enacted the law the Department of Treasury was looking at a threshold that was so high that most projects wouldn't qualify okay well we would have had to pay the state 1% of the total amount that we were going to finance if it was 81,000 808 81 million we would have had to pay in 1% which would have been $81,000 just to look at our proposal and whether they were going to approve it or not if it was with my number well we'll go with the second number $96 million we would have had to pay them $96,000 just to look the paperwork over the the the whole program if you really look at it and contemplate it and really look at it it's flawed and it's got too many hidden booby traps that's why all them other municipalities backed off and that's my opinion this I'm G to say we had um when we met with treasury via Zoom call they actually told us if they couldn't make a million dollars it wasn't a project that they wanted to consider that's what they told us y m correct Steve if it was 96 million it would $60,000 EXC yeah it's a big difference this this is part of the reason when I was looking into the law and I'm just saying this because I was kind of curious how this works when you went through all the legislation Etc and I also have copies of all of the people that wrote letters in to the state um I got access to all of that and their comments during the legislation no now I just got them now after the fact of how people the documentation people were sending in the letters they were writing um one of my group did an Oprah and was able to get that from the Secretary of Treasury I just wanted you to know that the Controller General became very interested in this project because of all of the letters that citizens were sending in um so it's probably a good thing that you didn't move forward with it um and I just think it would have been an extremely big expense and look I sometimes I get extremely strong in my feelings because I don't know anybody personally on this body and so when I do speak it's not it's not personal it's basically my judgment of your business transactions on part of the town I I have for years I've never gone to any clubs or meetings or anything because I do not want to appear that belong to any one group I like to be you know when I talk to people I don't care I'm just interested in what their feelings are so um if I speak sometimes and I get extremely excited which is you know usually I'm pretty calm but tonight I was a little you know I was upset because I don't like the idea of the changes in the meetings I know the a lot of people in the public do not like the five minute Ru and I really want you to consider maybe altering that I think think according to the the law you have to have actually a policy in place that you actually had to discuss at a public meeting and then got public input and then actually voted on it that's what the sunshine law states I just want to state that um and I don't think that there's anything on the books because we did scour through your website for everything to see if there was an actual policy in place so I'm just instructing you that if you are going to continue to do this that you're going to need to do that because you could be Al possibly legally challenged the governing body is following the meetings okay so can you show me the policy I don't have to show you the policy the policy is there's a public comment on every public body meeting in which there is a majority of the governing body here correct and we have that yeah but the five minute rule that is within the discretion of the governing body in accordance with the open public meetings act but don't you have to do a policy and discuss it well okay all right so um anyway thank you very much thank you anyone else from the public seeing none motion to close the floor all in favor any any comments from the committee yeah I'll be I'll be brief um um so recently legislation was um uh introduced into into uh in the state about uh the Council of affordable housing um they want to abolish the council for affordable housing and probably Senator Connors can explain this better than I can but I'll just do the the the Layman's version they're changing the the the they're trying to change the COA uh how the COA system works the affordable housing works in New Jersey um it would likely uh we've done a good job uh of addressing our affordable housing obligations as defined by the state um I try not to bore everybody but I can talk about this for a while but I but the what I did want to mention is like this so if they change it we'll have to do other things and I'm not sure what they are yet because they didn't CH they didn't pass yet but I would say it's likely to pass so when that happen so this is one of those things that's it's related to the municipal complex it's related to all our property we're going to have to address it at some point probably new rounds of affordable housing and it's important that that you have a take a global view of the township and you try and make the best decisions to make sure that we you know we meet all the the the the mandates that are coming down from the state it's not that we want to do this but we generally get forced and have to do it but it's all related those are my comments go ahead I'm just gonna tag on to what Comm M kenis had to say 2024 is going to be a hell of a year because all of this stuff has to be done by December 31st of 2024 and it's it's it's it's going to be a little crazy I was talking to Veron the other day she's pulling her hair out about this and if we miss a date we have a real problem on our hands um the traffic let me address the traffic here right now as Mr Connors has said many many times when when developers come in before the planning board the board of adjustment the traffic doesn't matter it's against the law to consider the traffic okay now go look at what we toown is doing go down I drove down south today there's a super wahwah going in they've just cleared another spot for another bunch of tow houses going in you got all those apartments down there across from the shop rate where do they I mean they can go out towards uh I guess Wells Mills or come up here that's where a lot of the traffic is coming from okay we I mean we only have that one thing on Lacy Road that's built the which is only about 67 tow houses I think so that's 130 cars roughly so when you start talking about the traffic let's start talking about where it's really coming from where town has got abundant amount of space and I've talked to them down there and they're going full speed they're really bring the developers in it's going to get worse before it gets better and I will tell you this I was at I was at breakfast this morning commissioner sedi commissioner Craig I forget who was some of the other people are trying to get a meeting with the Department of Transportation and the governor to deal with route n Jack Chelli was there and another guy who's running for governor I forget his name because there's now 9,000 people running for governor um both said that they're going to do their best should they be elected as governor to do something about route n we I will I'm trying to get myself invited to that meeting because I think Lacy has to be represented there I got the invite for you thank you it came today thank you I will be at that meeting I it's got to be done root nines got to be adjusted I have met with the congressman Smith last August he's working us it's not that we're sitting back doing absolutely nothing but it takes time can we get and think about what it would cost just from say South Toms River down to barnegate think about the cost of that billions of dollars and you just solver Murphy went out to the federal government for another $1.4 billion to help with the illegal immigrants that are coming into New Jersey look we're trying to do everything we can it's not easy you know what we get stuck in traffic too you know and the Railroad Avenue yeah that was a problem but there were some people in this room who were absolutely against it prevented it from stopped it for many many years and cost us millions of dollars and they you tell us to take responsibility they need to take responsibility thank you thank you Mr D Mr dof no comment evening Deputy Mayor mayor thank you I want to dtail a little bit of what uh committee man McDonald had said you know it shouldn't go over be overseen that our town is 86 square miles there's a large swath of our town that is unable to be developed veloped and that is protected Pine lands that is not the case and I'll I'll call out the names and there's a young lady here from uh Bergen County um some of the other North Jersey counties Essex County Toms River Lakewood Bricktown there's virtually no part of some of these places that I mentioned that has gone unpaved unpaved is either black top or concrete we've been responsible when you heard Mr uh committee McDonald talk last week about how many ratables are left I mean that's how we grow the pot in our town so I'm going to talk really briefly I'm going to I'm going to say on what you know to try to bring some business into the town 31 years ago and I'll be short I I started my career in uh Casino Control Commission Atlantic City I I oversaw a lot down there uh I was in a count room in all the casinos one piece pocketless garments plexiglass tables just millions of dollars in only $100 bills only hundreds long story short fast forward I took a a large interest in Business Development and Tourism I was on that board for the county last week I'm with commissioner sedi assemblyman Brian rump uh in at the holiday in an exit 63 the mainland holiday in it was an annual Galla for the Southern Ocean County Chamber of Commerce something that's easy to do that five of our our municipalities in the county have already done that the rest of this state has really done uh is they made petition and in a day uh got accepted uh to be what they call New Jersey film Ready New Jersey is a a Panacea for the film industry to come and shoot I looked at our our geography here we have a farm we have a lion from Kenya a zoo full of exotic animals an industrial park a waterfront and a nuclear nulear facility there is no shortage of architecture there's no shortage of you know we mail pictures into and I and I spoke with and we all met with the New Jersey Motion Picture Association who hosted that meeting once you're once your town has becomes film ready it's not these large amazing sets that are going to clog things up a lot we we live outside it's freezing half of the half of the time during the year a lot of this stuff is shot in people's living rooms they're shot in homes they're shot in businesses they're looking for backdrops they pay for the geography that we have they pay handsomely when a crew comes here they use everything from postage stamps to hygiene products to dry cleaners food restaurant everything you and I use the reverberations and I just texted the director of Tourism and I'm waiting for her to get back to me so it'll be an addendum of my comments next next week I see this as lwh hanging fruit if there's some infrastructure that wants to be a part of or make petition to uh have some filming done here in our town that would bring Revenue to our town those millions of dollars I was talking to I saw them with my own eyes they're a few hundred feet away from me us right now there's no me there's us and those those dollars go down the parkway they come up the parkway it shouldn't just be Atlantic City New York City Point Pleasent Seaside that gets that money some of that money should get off of Parkways at 74 and go into our pocket that's an a quick way to do it these people come in they're well healed they want our infrastructure they shoot 104 movies Netflix is all over Monmouth County they're all over Long Beach Island they're shooting series they're shooting talk shows uh they're shooting full featurelength 2hour movies it's something that I would ask the committee and the people of the town to at least look into again it's Google it's New Jersey motion picture TV commission I do think it's a way to raise the tide here uh financially in our town and take a a good strong look at it that'll conclude my comments mayor thank you thank you Deputy Mayor um I'm just going to Simply say that I do appreciate those that come out and speak I don't I I know that it it seems like we're banter back and forth but I just want you to know I do appreciate people that are interested enough in their town to come out and have something to say okay it's it's the tone we're we're learning to maybe take our tone down a little bit and that's that's we'll work it out and you have every right as I would have every right if I was sitting out there to come up and ask questions and get information and if we have information I I've made that clear at the last meeting that if if anything changes or anything develops you will be told about it we're not holding back because I know it started out with us being accused of being liars and hiding information and that is not where we're at we're trying to figure out what's best for our town that's our job number one job we have here along with figuring out a budget that's not easy to do when in two weeks they come in and ask for everything they need and they do need things whether it's our police our firemen our EMS our uh DPW whatever it is they all need something and we have a hard job ahead of us putting a budget together to take care of all the needs but I do appreciate I I I see this young lady over here in the green sweatshirt and she didn't look happy a couple times and I I feel like I would like you to have spoken so maybe the next time at the next meeting you come up and talk to us okay thank you for being here be careful going home it's very foggy outside thank you move to close motion to adjourn we have to read the ex resolution 20273 resolution is County of O state New Jersey authorizing the convening of an executive session in accordance to the open public meeting that motion motion move it second Mr Ken yes Mr McDonald Mr Mr C yes may julan now move it move fav I I no further business