adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public meetings Act pursuant of public laws 1975 said notice was advertised in the asby Park Press and the beacon and was posted on the bulletin board showing the time and place of the meeting everyone please rise and salute the flag Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for it stands nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all item one discussion change of government I'm going to kick that over to our jtim you're up something came out and we got a white paper lectures on it we really haven't had time to Sol into it to know what we should be doing and what are all our options are so what I'd like to do is take a motion that we move this to our December to our December 14th mov it second all in favor am next yes I have an add on good okay um special use permit for the boho Love Boutique they're looking to do a sidewalk sale November 24th 25th 26th from 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 P p.m. uh for small business Saturday and uh Black Friday can I have a motion Mo it second all favor hi hi I don't have any other add-ons as anyone else motion to adjourn move it second all favor all right adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public meetings act pursuant to the public laws of 1975 said notice was advertised in asby Park Press and the beacon and was posted on the bullet board showing the time and place of the meeting everyone please rise and salute the flag I of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible andice for all okay second reading of ordinance 2023 31 amending chapter 323 entitled vehicles and traffic ordinance of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey amending and supplementing chapter 323 of the Township Code of the township of lacy entitled vehicles and traffic so as to amend section 34b entitled speed limits second reading the floor to public comment see none motion to close the floor second all in favor I motion on the ordinance move it second second uh Mr Caro yes Mr D yes Mr Juliano yes Mr canis yes mayor McDonald yes resolution 2023 321 authorizing acceptance of an emergency management performance subgrant resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the accept AC of a subgrant award of federal fiscal year 2023 of Emergency Management performance Grant and Emergency Management agency assistance this is up to $10,000 for the police department move it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr D yes Mr KOLO yes Mr Kenneth yes mayor McDonald yes resolution 2023 322 authorizing the filing of the or New Jersey Fire Grant resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the execution and filing of an application to the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs for the 2024 ARP New Jersey Fire Grant second Mrs Juliano yes Mr diov yes Mr KIRO yes Mr kenis yes mayor McDonald yes resolution 2023 323 supporting the creation of a 1 1800 D dangerous cable and utility poll hotline resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey supporting the creation of a free 1 1800 dangerous cable and utility poll hotline this would be similar to the 1800 call before you dig system and it would give residents the ability to call and report problems that they see of hanging CES uh and leading poles move it second Mr KOLO yes Mrs Juliano yes Mr diov yes Mr Kenneth yes mayor McDonald resolution 2023 324 awarding a contract for computer equipment for police vehicles resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey awarding a contract to Del Technologies for computer equipment for new police Vehicles move it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr dof yes Mr Kennis yes Mr K yes mayor McDonald yes resolution 2023 325 awarding a contract for an an antenna radar system resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey awarding a contract to stalker radar in care of Applied Concepts Incorporated for a dsr1 antenna radar system move it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr yes Mr kenis yes Mr curo yes mayor McDonald resolution 2023 326 awarding a contract for radio equipment for police vehicles resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey awarding a contract to Motorola Solutions Incorporated in care of Wireless Communications and electronics for the purchase of radio equipment for the new police vehicles mov it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr diov yes Mr Kennis Mr Kola yes mayor McDonald resolution 2023 327 authorizing the refund of the deposit monies resolution of the township of lacy County of Ocean stateum New Jersey authorizing the refund of deposits held for the use of Municipal facilities second Mrs Juliano yes Mr dof yes Mr Kennis yes Mr collo yes mayor McDonald yes resolution 223 328 authorizing the payment of Township bills resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state New Jersey authorizing the payment of Township bills this is in the amount of 1, 15682 24 moving second Mrs Juliano yes Mr diov yes Mr Kennis yes Mr C yes mayor MCD yes motion to approve the township meeting minutes from November 9th 2023 second all in all in favor I motion to approve the Caucus meeting minutes from no for from November 9th 2023 move it second all favor I motion to approve a raffle application for the BPOE Laci Elks number 2518 Mo it second favor I motion to approve a bingo application for the BPOE Lacy alks number 2518 move it second all favor I I I have an add- on want add- on resolution 2023 329 resolution of the township of lacy County of Ocean stadi New Jersey authorizing the tax collector to cancel 2023 taxes due on a property granted the 100% disabled veteran exemption and refund the resulting credit balance move second Mrs Juliano yes Mr dof yes Mr Kennis yes Mr K yes mayor McDonald yes comments from the committee comme dof I just want to wish everyone a happy healthy and safe uh Thanksgiving uh enjoy your family enjoy your friends and enjoy the time thank you Juliano thank you thank you mayor uh Deputy Mayor um just again want to wish everybody a wonderful holiday and um stay safe out there in this crappy weather we're have overnight and the other thing I just wanted to mention is um down on Route 9ine toward the Fork River Beach area they um redid the whole building um it's called Community Options I just want sometimes we don't take notice to how nice they redid this entire building and the outside and really really made it look spectacular so if you haven't been down that way and seen it it it's a definitely an addition to our Township thank you to meell thank you deputy mayor uh I would also like to you know just wish everyone and their families a wonderful Thanksgiving um but I want to keep one thing on everyone's radar because it's a big thing I think you know part of the reason people are here is they want to be represented uh this morning uh and I have I've written about this and and spoken about it for several years by 2035 the governor declared today that all the vehicles sold in New Jersey are going to be electric you didn't get to vote on it you didn't get a voice in it some nameless faceless bureaucrat did it without ever knowing you or not caring so a lot of people in the audience or a lot of people with their earshot of the voice are saying you know there might be there may be some type of building in the future maybe your tax will go up 100 200 I don't know any number try buying a $70,000 electric car and then having the battery go bad in a couple years I could go on and there's nowhere to dispose of these batteries there's no charging infrastructure structure the day after California did it they warned of a brown out don't plug in your electric vehicle this is not the Cure allendal but it doesn't stop there for this governor on Tuesday at OCC the Department of Environmental Protection and some of the barnegate bay partners are getting getting ready to regulate the nitrogen in your water we already test all the water at the bathing beaches in Ocean County I know it because I oversee it and it's the best season we've ever had what are these so-call they call it goals what are these so-called goals for nitrogen in the water are they going to close beaches if the nitrogen draining down from a northern Jersey County uh flows down and it's some bureaucrat test sit in Island Beach State Park or maybe one of our lakes or maybe anywhere in barnegate Bay this is Food For Thought this is a power grab no matter where you stand politically need to have your voice heard call 292 6000 and tell this governor next time he does things and he rolls out these these mandates you want your voice this is going to affect everybody in this room whether you're sitting up here got guys laughing over there they think I'm kidding I wish I was kidding but I know about that which I speak fact check me look it up I wish it wasn't I wish it was only Thanksgiving this Governor is has got a power grab he's moving ahead with this agenda it will affect every single person's life thank you deputy mayor McDonald do you want to say anything wish everybody a Happy Thanksgiving thank you Tim um and I also would like to wish everybody a happy and healthy Thanksgiving and those are my comments and now I'll open up to the public does the public have any questions or comments even just your name my name is Rudy Thomas I've been a resident since 1972 this 51 years I've been here um and Happy Thanksgiving to everybody I'm trying not I don't want to be aage sural I just want to bring these guys up to speed I'm a resident I was the past president of lacy soccer club for 13 years ran the club and now I'm a trustee for the club I came back after 20 years my grand kids are playing for the club I came back sat on a board and in the 80s and 90s we'd have 900 to a th000 kids playing a lot the club paid and stoed the lights at hebu Park on field one and two kids sold candy bars we ran our Thanksgiving tournament we saved money and stalled the lights on field one were about $30,000 back then I got the poles from Oyster Creek they donated the poles and uh we put put them in with the help of Mr kilmary and Mr Parker then 96 we installed the poles on light on field 2 at hebat Park for about $60,000 that was contracted out completely Club paid for the whole installation okay um the club's done a lot we we we our mission statement for that club and still is the same mission statement was always for the kids we want as many kids participating we think that's a good thing for the township keep the kids off the street keep them involved the more they're involved the better the community is and better the kids are they've grown up we've had a lot of successes we have a number of players that play division one soccer on full scholarships we've had players that are head coaches of universities West Virginia coach is that we played for Lacy soccer some MLS players played for Lacy soccer started Lacy soccer the assistant head coach at the Philadelphia Union MLS played for Lacy soccer so we've had a lot of successes in the soccer arena but kids growing up and making a better Community fast forward I come back 20 years AG I went to work up at Indian Point so I was I lived here but I I rented up there and I came back and came back to the club because my grandkids are playing and uh seems like we have somewhat of an adversarial situation with the with the Township from the club's perspective the lights on field one and two are in disrepair um the township charges the club these kids $4,000 a year for the electric bill over 10 15 years that's 40 $60,000 Club doesn't really have that much money the participation is down to 400 kids instead of 900 kids it's not all the price used to cost $25 to play soccer and Lacy now it's $400 for the season which is cheap compared to the pay forplay three or $4,000 clubs um but we've tried to work with the recreation department the public works department and I've listened I've talked to the people on the board and I said boy this is completely different from what I had I had a meeting two to three times a year with a committee person the township Rec person and or Mr Parker Casey Parker and we met and come up with a plan what do what do the clubs need what do you know grass fields sprinklers little little things like that we worked out our issues Casey helped us a lot and stolen the lights of field two and the lights of field one we worked with the township we got approvals we got engineering approvals we put that all in and uh so we try to we've asked uh couple things I'll give you some examples um if we paid for the bulbs on field two with the town install the buls no can't do that uh we need another field lit because everybody's playing at night parents are working two jobs they don't get home till 5 or six o'clock so we wanted to light another field we said if we paid for the poles and the lights on field three at Hebrew Park would you guys install electric no can't do that we asked um we need a little shed for our poles and cuz we Club buys the goals Club buys the Nets uh we buy our Corner Flags we need a place to store them that's not in the electric box there at Hebrew Park can we do that no um then we talked about uh seating the fields um they use the airator you familiar with an airator yes pokes holes pokes holes and it puts grass seeds go in the holes which is good intentions but it gets lumps so back in the 90s Casey went out and bought a slicer Cuts cuts the G ground slices the ground puts seeds in while we're slicing it can we use a slicer no it's too hard we can't do that I said okay so we decided that well we're not going to get any real support for fix fixing the lights at Hebrew Park cuz half of them are at the high school still uses them for senior day so they have their senior soccer games at Hebrew Park the last game as a senior they played that at Hebrew Park both the boys and the girls the lights just four or five eight lights bulbs out they've kind of blown over a little bit they're wooden poles big picture we'd like to replace those poles they were again 30 years old we'd like to replace them try to work with the township with that we're not we're not getting anywhere with that so well we have been we have gone out to musco lighting and a few other lighting companies to look into there's a lot of lights that need to be U replaced those wooden poles are not insurable anymore we have to look at replacing them we met with another company that has some kind of leaseback program he wanted $300,000 a year forever basically to replace the lights in all of our Parks um so we are looking at options and it's not cheap to put I wish it was still 60,000 to put we are looking at options about understand so here's here's here's the here's the deal so as the soccer club sat down on the executive board for the soccer club and said well what can we do well we can reinstate we can try to have our Thanksgiving tournament back again the Thanksgiving tournament uh and then we would raise another we'd make probably $30,000 profit on a Thanksgiving tournament we have a tournament for Labor Day which is really a recreational tournament we wanted to have our Thanksgiving tournament no you can't do it can't get the fields ready we can't have a Thanksgiving tournament we were going to make enough money to fix the fields ourselves the answer is no everything there's no communication there's no give and take this information is relatively new to us nobody's heard it can I answer you a question I'm Sor your your position again is I'm a trustee on the board but I was not the president or no I was a president for 13 years you're not now so not now just trust you I'm a little little familiar with with Recreation and I know some of the um players in Le soccer so what you have to understand is you might ask throughout the year and throughout the year the answer is going to be no so we put together our budget each year and that's when we determine what expenditures we can have so why don't we set up a meeting with the president you know um that's what I'd like to speak to because you keep on saying we said no but from from what Baron is saying is it wasn't a no it something we're looking into it's not not a not a well I'm saying that meeting used to be two or three times a year what's going on right now right now the worst issue we have is field three at Gilly Park and they did meet with Jim and Rob and field 3 is in disrepair you can't play on it from cutting the grass during that rainy period there's big ruts in there it's not playable and that happens and we have I know it happens know we have three additional teams starting in the spring so we need to get that repaired we don't know that we even really have a commitment to get that repaired my my issue is the communication the working together communication I'm saying is unfortunately and and and I don't know you but the communication should be with with your Hier yeah it is it is I'm just communicating I'm here I sat down with so you're there all the time with them and we talk and they meet and whatever we've had one meeting with the Township Recreation Department and the public works that was it and no committee person okay nobody who were the committee people invited that's the question I don't know it wasn't our meeting they might not have even been told meeting it and for us you know things changed too it's like so we had we used to have you know twice a year three times a year discuss what's good what's bad what can we do some communication some give and take we never had anything you know that was absolute I can go back to Hebrew Park when I started Hebrew Park was a was a gravel parking lot so can we get the can we get Hebrew Park Hebrew Park parking lot paved the answer was at the time no you can't eventually it got paved um we needed more fields and you answered your question yes the the the answer at the time was no but again once it gets on in process everything takes takes time government doesn't work that way it doesn't say I want we write a check the way government works is you you put in a request we you know we get proposals there's a process to follow and then you know we you know hopefully get it on the budget if we can afford it I understand that but there's still no communication with work on that we can maybe work together we can work together the club wants so we want we can work together that's what I we're not working together right now if you sat on Lacy board we're not working together okay we can work on that let that's fine that's fine I'm not being avial trying to we'll reach out to the president um and coordinate some dates and um the Committee Member liaison I can have two committee people there um so we can we can definitely work on that okay so we're going to ask we'd like to repair the the the club would like to repair the lights on field one we'll fix them get us through a couple years we'd like to get a Thanksgiving tournament back again we also want to light light a third field at Hebrew park because we have no place to practice why don't you put this in writing bring it down have it presented copies for everybody at the meeting okay then there'll be no ambiguity about it fair that's fair that's fair I just want to bring you guys up to it's a big difference between when I ran to Club in the 80s and '90s into what we're seeing today and the coaches and I'm telling you the coaches and the board members are like we've had it with the township we're not getting anywhere with anything everything's a no everything so yeah you need a meeting with I would say the rec director and N the liaison direct Department this is the first time we've heard about I understand that I understand communication I'm not being I'm trying not to be adversarial we work with the township a lot I've done this for you know I've been here for 50 some years it literally is the first time we've heard anything about this nobody's come to us about I I know they haven't that's why I came back I've been here before I appreciate you coming out and that's why we we'll put a meeting together we okay okay thank you very much thank you thank you questions name Steve barl Fork at River New Jersey uh before I get started I do like to make a couple suggestions uh as we're notified by a law or whatever from 1975 you people keep saying that this building's outdated how about your notification of 48 years should be updated so more people can find out about what's up with the township it's any inadequate so my recommendation is again another subject for an advisory committee made up of committee members and taxpayers to make the township work better get more people involved so more people can understand and come to meetings because since the municipal project has started in February I've talk to hundreds of people a good part of them had no idea and out of all the hundreds that I talked to only two people are supporting your Municipal complex as you know your desires come under a law the public private partnership law that demands Town Hall meetings Financial transparency public support you're not going out and getting public support you're not notifying the entire town of your intentions you're being dishonest and deceitful about this whole operation that you're trying to pull and I'm living proof to that and as soon as you put in that treasury report or whatever it is I'm filing a complaint with the state um my other recommendation is in November the township requires the residents to bring their leaves about a quarter mile down a dirt road getting our vehicles all dirty and with rocks on it so if this committee is concerned about taxpayers doing extra work driving extra miles when a lot of other Township has trucks that sucks all the leaves up on the street I don't know why this Township can't do that especially can I finish don't interrupt me don't interrupt me you made an don't interrupt me when I get done you can talk to okay I get the same thing from you so don't interrupt me well when you lie I'm going to I'm going to corre okay go ahead tell me what you're going to say we don't require people we do pick up we require them to put in recyclable bags and we have Leaf pick up bags you got to buy bags you got to look at I got to look at my neighbor bags for two weeks before they so I'm just saying for the people and there's many of us that do get rid of our own leaves you should have at least a paved Road or at least gravel put down so I'm not destroying my new truck no they don't all they have to do in the recycling yard there's a there's an area for them to dump they don't have to go back I'm sorry you're right I'm sorry I can't correct I guess you don't bring your leaves to rec I do actually I do well that backyard's been in place for years question you we do have leaf pickup we do have leaf pickup so yeah you got to buy bags set them out front look at them yeah that's right okay you do well okay that's a certain group of people there's a lot of us that do drive back there well and we get all dusty and dirt well it's unfair I'm just we don't require well I'm making a notification and a recommendation to either pave it or put gravel down good idea okay that's a great idea all right do something for the township for a we don't do anything town do something for the township nothing we don't do anything uh once again I'm Steve B I represent the taxpayers that oppose the municipal complex I represent the taxpayers that don't even know about the municipal complex and I represent the taxpayers that struggle weak to week paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet and this is not the time to come up with this Mega monstrosity that is not needed it's been proven there is nothing wrong with this building nothing I asked for an advisory committee to study this building and and how it is no longer adequate for the township and make recommendations that don't cost $100 million and that's another thing I want to talk about the 100 million I get criticized by you people when you tell us about what you did you get a number yet by the way Mr Kennis do you have a number of what the committee is willing to spend on this new minicipal complex I didn't attend last meeting so it's been four weeks that you guys had an opportunity to come up with a number do you have a number I'm not going to answer your question because the last time I answered your question you accused me you didn't believe me when I answered you will say that again you didn't believe me when I answered you so I don't see the need to answer your question right now so you're denying my constitutional right for information you're denying my rights I don't care if I asked the question 10 times you got to answer it we pay you to answer our questions my okay can I ask the attorney can I ask the mayor you could ask any of us okay who knows does anyone have a number no we don't at this time you don't have a number no is there a date or a deadline when you need a number because the clock is ticking in accordance to that agreement that was signed that document that locks you in for all kinds of financial penalties that we got to pay that the attorney said was okay I can't I read that thing over you guys are out of your mind for signing that you really are well anyway I do want to say good evening on the eve of Thanksgiving I wish I could be here giving the township committee thanks for a job well done but sadly I can't it's because the will of this committee is hellbent on building this gigantic new Municipal complex funded entirely by the tax taxpayers of lacy Township what makes it it worse that there is nothing wrong with this building this committee has alleged that the building time has come to pass without any evidence or facts as to why this Township can continue to function in this building many suggestions have been offered to the township to help them such as work from home 4day work week split shifts and building a second story on the existing police station which I would like to ask again as to why a second story even if you need a variance can't be put on the police station can you answer that Mr kenis let you finish huh GNA let you finish first well you might forget but an no remember I have a there's no okay at this time it doesn't make sense to just simply build this financial burden just for the sake of building it there is no public support required by public private partnership law and the township committee has not been upfront and I in my opinion not very honest with us and have been withholding information that we as taxpayers have a right to know and have a right to comment on and have a right to challenge if we don't agree with us that's what this country's about not trying to belittle someone at this mic or referring to them as being disgusting in a public uh website with my full name that's a big problem this Mega complex uh hold on you guys say you don't have a number that this community uh committee has failed to lawfully lawfully have Town meetings on this required by law have unilaterally determined among yourself without public backing without public knowledge without public support to build this Mega complex because I know in your minds you're already all pretty much told me that you're going to build it since February of 2023 I have spoken to the hundreds of taxpayers and like again only two two support you we the people cannot afford something that is not needed this Township committee is disconnected disconnected from the financial reality of today's world you really are you must not see what's going on with credit cards interest rates fuel food and just living in this country right now this new Municipal complex is to be built in accordance to New Jersey state public private partnership Governor Murphy created it this law in 2018 to date to my knowledge no other municipality has entered into an agreement with an outside contractor to build a new Municipal complex in accordance with the public private partnership in the 5 years since the Inception of this law that says a lot to me anyway the township building Partners partner is Johnson's controls a company that moved out of the United States to avoid paying taxes a company involved in a legal activity around the world under the law the P the township committee has failed to comply with the following number one no evidence of competitive bidding I hear the township administrator did say another company put in for it where's that paperwork can I get a copy of what that other company proposed to do instead of spending aund million can I get a copy of the competitive bidding on this uh new Municipal not a competitive bid it's an unsolicited proposal there's a big difference well under the law a public private partnership it says that there must be competitive bidding right I want to know where the competitive bidding is and what did you guys do with the other contract proposal that was given to you can I see it can I get a copy of it I'll have to see if it's allowed to be released under the open public records act because it can I will have to see if it's allowed to be released under the open public contracts law I mean the open public records law that it's a public document since we're still okay so you'll let me know next meeting make a request you can make an open request and then I we will determine whether or not it's a I'll get I'll get someone to make that request there's no evidence of public meetings other than the one you had back in November of 22 and I would like someone in a few words as possible to summarize what you told the public that your plans were what it was going to cost who was paying for it and when was it going to begin so at this one public meeting can someone on the committee summarize bullet points that you made to the township particularly about financing interest a maintenance team employed by that we paid for employed by Johnson so has anyone can anyone give me because I wasn't there and I'm sure a lot of people here might have not have been there so can you summarize what you told everyone take crack at it so right we received it uh you know this proposal from Johnson Controls and we received one other proposal and where we are right now is where we've been for the last year we selected Johnson if we're g to if we choose to go forward there's still three choices that we're going to do and I've told you this many many times we're either going to do nothing we may do a rehab or we're going to build new I'm a no vote on a rehab the only thing that really got to be done so I I answer I answer why that's that's the reason and in addition in addition we do not have final numbers because we don't have final plans you can't get final numbers on anything if you don't have plans for them and we do not have any final plans okay so let me ask you this and further the contract that you keep referencing that we're getting ripped off by is those are uh that's money that we have to pay in Li if we do not keep going forward meaning that if you have a set somebody has to draw up a set of plans um for you know in order to even propose a bid or to see what you're doing and nobody's going to do that work for free so in essence we're paying this the the the sums that we have to pay are for sets of plan so we could get a a fair price so we know what we're talking about if we choose to go forward does the township have an engineer we have several we have several several Township Engineers how come they didn't do this well they're not they're not Architects they're Engineers there's a big difference again we're p just to clarify again we're pursuing this Avenue because it is uh potentially more beneficial for um for Johnson to be the manager as opposed to us doing it peace meal why because it potentially because again I we don't know they have money dude potential potentially potential can you finish potentially doing it peace meal would cost taxpayers more money by doing it that way that's why we're we're looking at this route first if this doesn't work then it doesn't work we'll do you know we might do something else we may not are you going to make your decisions before Public Announcement everything or are you going to let me just finish the question or are you going to get the information then solicit the public or at least have a big it ain't going to you need a bigger building than this and before you go sign and paperwork again or are you going to solicit the public and get public feed back because the law does say you got to have public backing you got to prove you got to provide evidence evidence e v i d n c evidence that it's in the Public's best interest and the public backs it I read the law over again today I spent hours reading it and that's specifically what it says suffice it the way I look at this you want to answer to your question or you just suffice it to say whatever the requirements of the law are is what the municipality will follow so if you're satisfied with the requirements of the law you should be satisfied with the process that the municipality will follow it will follow all of the parameters of the law okay so when are the town meetings going to occur I don't know we don't know because get all the information well it's my belief you asking you're asking from and I understand why this is an important for well thank you I appreciate it I might get some argument about that at home but I appreciate it me too Senator me too but in in in in reality it is a big ticket item and it ought to raise question and concern and interest by the public absolutely and this governing body has an obligation to provide the information to the public and to make sure that they people understand what it is that's being proposed okay so as long as I'm sitting up here as their legal counsel that's the guidance that I will give them okay but there is no real information you're some of the information you're asking for simply has not yet been obtained there's nothing to provide the public because they don't have a plan in place they don't have the numbers generated they don't have a concept and rather than to confuse people with giving things in a peac mail fashion that may change from time to time as this design criteria changes would be a disservice to the public rather than get all the information and have one concept with all of the elevations and all the plans and everything that's in place so that the people can actually look at it and a lot of your questions would be able to be answered and so it's just going to take a little more time to do that the only agreement that the governing body has entered into is an agreement for pre-development it has not agreed to do the development has not made that decision yet and even if this governing body wanted to do it doesn't mean it would be done because it needs to be approved by the state of New Jersey it is in fact the first project that is being proposed under this new law and as an attorney why would you think that it took five years for some one to finally buy into this well because there are economic reasons why and at very first instance the state of New Jersey was trying to impose a requirement that many municipalities would not be able to satisfy that's why the that's why they're they've changed their opinion as it seems now and they may change it again by the time they get an application but they seem to have directed their interest in types of projects that weren't simply feasible and so that's why it hasn't that's number one number two many of the people and I Hey listen anybody that's called the state of New Jersey about an unemployment compensation claim um and and and still hasn't gotten it knows that those people are working on remote it's one of the reasons why you can't get an answer out of state New Jersey they're working on remote there's people working on home now continuously since Co no you shake your head Steve but this is absolutely true and the problem is the people that were in the department treasury has Point people in the P3 program have changed and so now they're starting new again and so simply because there were no other municipalities that were looking at a project for a new Municipal complex doesn't mean it's a it's a fail system it is new and as a Pioneer so to speak there are certain obstacles that have to be overcome both by the state of New Jersey and by the municipality but don't mistake I your con concern is a reasonable legitimate concern anyone who pays taxes ought to be concerned in ought to have an understanding in order to take part in what takes place up here I wouldn't be a part of something that I thought was shady or you know behind closed doors or anything that's not my reputation that's not something I want to be part of okay so I'll be as helpful as I possibly can thank you for that you know going to the contract there's some termination payments on it on page six okay you guys didn't have a problem with these absorbent numbers 240 now each one of these are separate right that that's not an add-on to that or to that these are specified numbers based on the status of the so we're ready we're ready in debt for the 243,000 possibly possibly possibly what's what's the possibly what's the not Poss any contract can be renegotiated okay and did we actually complete all matters in step one and the second penalty is $730,000 $730,000 the third penalty is $812 00,000 the fourth penalty is 1,122 ,000 the fifth penalty is 1, 36,000 and there's more money added to that so this preconstruction contract theoretically could cost the taxpayers $5 million without even a shovel hit in the ground I can't believe you agreed to it and then what even gets worse are the confidentiality Clauses attached to this uh agreement that pretty much says that only people only someone who has a need to know will be told anything about the Township in Johnson and it goes on and I'll read it right from here project company who I guess is Johnson and the township agree that neither party shall make public announcements regarding this agreement or the project without mutual agreement of the parties as to the timing and content what's that mean well what it means is that there's a lot of work that's done by The Architects and Engineers that's proprietary in nature it can be true of any architectural um um workings where the governing body retains an architect or an engineer and so that information is proprietary until we buy it well they're not going to give it to you until they're done with it it I mean look how long we waited for the $35,000 engineering report that was really just a smoke screen and a waste of taxpayers money well that I'm not making that's my opinion I understand that because you're not going to use that you're not going to put the uh I got the I got it written down because I still can't get over how much of an addition and who came up with a 30 32 ,400 square foot Edition see it right there what conceivably was going to go in a rodeo a circus what are you putting in this 32,000 square foot Edition what's going in there someone had to make the recommendation to the engineering firm that this is what we need this is what we want and the police station just let me finish one second and the police station addition is 10,400 square ft and to dig the foundation and get rid of the alleged contaminated dirt did anyone did you guys take soil samples why would we do that excuse me why would we do that we didn't do a full blown environment why would you do that because this engineering report wants to charge you $2 million to get rid of the dirt it would eventually so why wouldn't you say wow that's a lot of money maybe we should get someone here test the ground because as I understand the police station's on good ground good ground there's no contamination where the police station is part of the landfill was there where the police station is okay that's what anything would that's those again Mr Mr Deputy Mayor what are you putting in you got a total we've told you this before of 42 thou no you didn't you told me you're going to maybe look you guys criticized me for saying things but you guys actually brought up a swimming pool you guys bring up a pickle ball court you bring up a wreck building a wck building who's going to run the wck building so you're going to have to hire more people pay them benefits to run the wreck building and then you're going to charge the town uh Township PE is that what you're going to do tell me there's a lot of opt you told me already I forgot tell me again I'm I'm going to tell you tell me again are you going to listen yeah so on the the footprint for that came from a combination of the administration and the department heads coming up with the size of the facilities they need so it was based on study it was based on a feasibility study of what our current footprint is now we hired the same engineering firm well before we were even engaged with Johnson Controls because we were already looking at possible addition or building a new building so we were doing a feasibility study with all the Departments to say if we were able to add on or get a new building what is the minimum requirements that you need in order to function so that's where the additional space came from from what we needed for all the Departments and to bring all the Departments Under One Roof building and adding on to our two current buildings we lose based on current law and the building codes the use of the downstairs basement as office space so that's why the new edition is much larger than what um we actually are building what we would build new for so your add additional space because we lose the downstairs of this basement and the police department basement for office space because it does not have the right codes for um the the the them to be down there once we make more than 50% improvements to our current buildings you you still got me confused I still can't understand what would go in 42,000 Square fet that's a that's a huge all the offic wait a second wait a second you got all the offices in in here right now no hold on can I speak don't speak F I'm talking to Veronica I'm going to talk to you a little later okay great um well can can I just just for the point of process so it's orderly any comments directed through the chair yes yes I will go to Mr canis the deputy mayor to ask the questions that would be the best way okay now can I talk to ask Veronica now you got the people in this building right you got the people in the old uh Food Bank building by the museum right they're coming here the newa that wasn't the food bank no no no no not the uh the building next to the museum devel devel Community Development it was never the food bank you said just the food bank Oh I thought it was sorry about that I know it was a post office it was a number of right correct okay so those people are coming to this new building right yes how many people work in that building 18 18 and they've already grown out of their space since we moved them there in 2018 okay what other buildings are going to move into the new Municipal complex besides that one that's the other one that's going to be under under our roof is bringing us all back Under One Roof so you're only adding 18 more people to the existing people in this building yes I I I guess you could say that yeah give or take yes more baffing be with the police I it's hard to believe hard you have to remember we're go ahead we're losing the basement level use for office spaces down here and in the police department because we're doing 50% up more than 50% of upgr to this building square footage wise you can't based on when this building was built it doesn't it does not um it's not tocode with the current law so you can't use it for office space anymore so I we anybody that's downstairs in the building now has to come upstairs also well I respectfully disagree but anyway how many employees do you have in this building total start 30 here 30 you've been given suggestions for working at at home 4day work week a split shift which really that's pretty I do a split shift I want you could do like say 5: to 1:30 5: in the morning to 1:30 and oh oh you I guess you got to get up early well you do your if you have which I'm I'm assure because I come up here all the time I'm assure that you're not dealing with the public that you should be gainfully employed doing administrative work when you're not conversing with the public right is that their job or just hang out and play solitary until someone else comes in no no they have assigned duties so you're the township administrator I believe I looked up your job description you're supposed to maintain what the employees do right and how they do their work and figure it out and you I'm recommending that you figure it out where you just keep this building and put them on a split shift okay we have to negotiate that into the Union contracts okay shifts would have to be negotiated well hopefully they're taxpayers too so they'll probably agree to it we're going to be negotiating with the clerical unit soon so I welcome you to negotiate with me how can you negotiate just a workshift because it's a negotiable item unfortunately but yet the municipal complex we can't negotiate with you by T by having a vote on it everything should be negotiated that's the that's the foundation of our country our F country is based on negotiating uh the right to speak public our Constitution and stuff like that and you're you're depriving us of our right to vote for this and it's really wrong everyone I say says that and how you going to squeeze it in that's only one part of what's going on that we need money for and let me ask you this if it goes through you're going to tax us 2.5% every year for 30 years is that my understanding no well tell me how you what your concept is on how we PID for the new on based on the 30-year thing until we go through our budget cycle we don't know and until we have a number that we know what how how what are you asking me to do when is the budget meeting I'm going to have to go to has nothing to do with it how we don't know what the building don't know what any of the costs are on the on the the building so what why what am I telling you we don't have a number yet you can't can't it's like asking me to build I want to know if I got to put my house up for sale do you want me to start building you a house or do you want what it costs first you build plenty of houses Mr kis you're right I kind of know what I'm talking about okay all right I lost my spot all right again I just want to reiterate this is right from the law public hearings are supposed to be held for the specific reason to establish specific findings that the project is in the best interest of the public to include underlying Financial models estim estimated cost timetable evidence of public benefits that's right from the law I know when I talked last time there was a little dispute about the $50 million minimum project threshold and that's what the law says so that's the least amount that you could spend right or am I wrong Mr Mayor the deputy I don't have an answer I'm not sure I'm not sure sure I said we're going to follow the rules of the contract you're not sure okay right well I'm going to ask it again next time I fine you can ask you can ask it as many times you want until we get a final number you could ask it okay and I will it's my right my constitutional right and my civil right to do it and my tax paying right to do it whether you don't like the way I talk is too bad we love the way you talk okay interest on a 30-year loan of $50 million at 7 % is 119 million so now you know where I get my 100 million from or well let me ask you this deputy mayor when you're going to do the proposal of what this costs are you going to just give us the initial cost or are you going to do the final cost I'm about the final cost the final cost includes interest paying these subcontractors or whoever they are and plus if you make a recreation building you're going to have to pay to people have run that too yeah you're going to know all so the co the once the cost is determined it will include all of those things that you spoke of the interest and everything so again so once you sign I'm going to use your hundred million number so you sign a contract for $100 million to build a new recreation center within with the interest everything yeah so the whole Lock Stock barrel with interest your finance charges if you want to call them that is $100 million okay so now you sign that contract with Johnson Controls they hire all the subcontractors it's all done by Union r jobs so you can't you know it has to be paid what's known as prevailing wage so like if you go get something fixed at your house you might pay $100 the town pay is $500 because it has to be by Union rate wages okay so that's so the hund thou $100 million you have that is what it's so now they build a project let's say there's oh my God some change order that needs to be done some what a change order something can't be built the way it's on the plan so there needs to be a change order let's say it's $200,000 more guess what Johnson Controls eats the 200,000 it doesn't get added on to the township costs because you're signing a contract that says Johnson Controls can pull this building in in this time period for that amount of money so we we don't pay for additional costs if if there's additional costs incurred because they've agreed to be able to do the building Lock Stock barrel and finance charges for 100 million let's say okay how do who pays their maintenance employees that they're going to put in there they're not putting their maintenance employees here that's not part of the contract we said we don't want that yes it says in the one you signed no we don't we have okay let me ask you this finalize does the contract that you signed have maintenance employees from Johnson that is an option but until we get the final number we have not made that determination and most likely we will not be having them come in to clean the building because I'm not going to be able to lay off employees because I still have other facilities that those employees would have to clean so why would I hire more people to do the job the current staff is doing because you guys signed Johnson's contract we don't no no no no it will not include no it will all right when I speak of main when they speak of Maintenance they cap capital Improvement type of Maintenance project a window breaks if the flooring needs to be replaced that is the stuff that Johnson Controls would pay for that if you didn't do the P3 under a lease purchase the municipality would be paid for it they assume all of the risk for 30 years 30 years so anything breaks in the 30 years they pay for correct including is that can I you including you point that out in this contract over Mr when they turn the building over everything has to be up to date so before they turn the building over the rugs are worn they have to replace the rugs if it needs to be painted they paint it if the hbac is sufficient they have to replace it and that's all in that initial I I want to see that in black and white with signatures because I have a hard time believing that we are so bad all right I'm going to continue the township committee has failed to provide evidence such as repair receipts and or estimate estimates to fix the existing building so can we make an agreement that there's absolutely nothing wrong with this building other than it's alleged that the township the 30 Township employees have outgrown it can we make that agreement that there's nothing wrong with this building no no okay all right I'll go to the next question uh the township continues to refuse my request to appoint an advisory committee made up of committee people and taxpayers to examine the failures of this existing building and could you tell me why that's not a good idea Mr Mayor I have a good answer for that um this bill the premise Still Remains that if and it's still an if if we were to to proceed with what with whatever new complex we're building it is not it is uh sending good money after bad by doing any Rehab on this building or the police station given this location and let me just let me add so I I kept this article because this stuff goes back so long this is from the Jersey Shore in line from November 9th 2021 so barnegate was faced with the same choices you know that that that we have with the Edwards school if everybody remembers the Edwards school which was on Route n which was on Route n in barnegate Old wait wait a second so here just I'll read you one sentence um so uh the least expensive choice would be to completely demolish the building other Alternatives would be to keep the building facade and renovate it for 21 million or spend 25 million to demolish and rebuild so they chose to not to to knock the building down okay so that's that's where I'm coming for we had this discussion before my big deal is I'm not spending 21 or $25 million which is or pick I keep telling you pick a number 10 Pick 10 million I'm not spending $10 million on a rehab on money on property here that we should be collecting property tax from so did that's my opinion no no that's my opinion so everybody else could be know I'm I'm a firm the Builder's coming out I'm a firm no on a rehab firm now but I'm one vote um next question I'm requesting that the township committee provide us the law of rule or whatever it is prohibiting a second story on the police station what is I know Veronica mentioned something I can't the footings that are in the current police station don't make it possible to put another no do what what don't you can build I said you I just I just answered your question to do whatever rehab over there on the police station yeah police I'm answering it right now it would be pick a number 10 million 20 million 30 million I'm a no that's a lot less than a 100 well you it's a Rec Center a municipal complex and a police station and it's not 100 yet I I'm not I hate I don't want to talk about numbers we don't have the number yet wait to next meeting you think about it I'll ask you again you can ask me as many times you want answer is going to be the same until we get a number from them and and until we finalize the plans nothing's been finalized yet I'm just afraid that you guys are going to do it all and just let then they just notify us that you did it Mr barl we have Mr barl we've G we've given you forum for a long long time there's a lot of municipalities that have a red clock like a shot clock in the basketball court behind us I don't I I can't speak for my colleagues I don't I don't want that I don't want a time limit on your comments you have the right I think you're a veteran you have more of a right than I do to talk oh if you had time limits you have time I want to listen to what you have to say but I'm telling you what and I said this about thisy these these good people up here too many to name they've been here a collective hun this this this is a senior senator this the man on the end of the day has has been mayor during Sandy we have people up here and mayor mayor uh McDonald who has we have legacies and reputations nobody's doing anything shady I if if I knew if I knew like Senator Connor or if any of our colleagues if I knew if I'm sitting up here we're all being recorded right now that there was if I had knowledge something Shady some some under the table meeting some deal I wouldn't i' would walk off i' I always said I walk off well just I'm not aware let's I don't question you're part of the fabric of this community we've been here since 1961 it's before I'm born you're part of the Great fabric of this community I don't question your motives I don't think you should question ours we're just trying to do when Mr Kennis talks one thing that he says that Rings true he wants to see we have limited land to build on if we stop building it all comes out of our pockets as taxpayers Mr Kennis has talked about turning th this land in the shadow of the access and egress of the of the parkway into a tax rateable mayor McDonald has talked about in several weeks ago over the past couple of meetings I'm not going to put words in his mouth but he did say he researched that TD Bank site I think it was about $660,000 a year you know now you have a lot more property here here the police department behind us the wreck building There's an opportunity to grow the right way I I don't dis I don't disagree with what you're saying that you have no money to do this I'm sorry go ahead I I agree with what a lot that you said and I I i' like to see the township progress you know when the when the uh Power Plant was given us $1 million a year maybe we huh they still still why where's why can we have saved that money to do it well well because that's a joke it's a joke your ignorance is is is comical it's called taxes it's called paying for municipal Services when need say so what would we have done without the t uh Power Plant you would have had your taxes would have been a lot higher without the 111 million that offsets your Municipal budget yes and over the years since we started getting that money in the 1980s 30 million of it went to the schools thank you uh next question and I'll make sure I laugh at you too I I hope that's that's real professional you show yourself the type of person you the type of person you are that's right that's right uh going back to the $35,000 Engineers report what real what was its purpose to see if if this was something feasible to add on to this building and to our two buildings here that was the purpose of it we always and you were asking for you were asking for a hard number how much would it cost to add on to here so we engag with an engineering firm to give us a number well what the the missing part is is specifically what you were going to do with 40,000 two square feet for let's see uh 48 employees no it's not 48 employees Mr they said 30 here and 18 there that's 48 we're also going to be moving the police station over the police station has got its own 10,000 okay but but again so square foot addition since this building was built in 1969 the building codes and the American of Disabilities Act all came into play so you have to have certain circulation elements around the desks around the people in the hallways in the bathrooms for those that possibly may have some sort of disability to to move around so we can't build it in the same footprint that we have this building because we don't meet ADA requirements today for those people that have disabilities so there's certain circulation elements that you have to so you might want to build a 2,000 foot room but you have to add 40% to it for circulation and flow these all rules and regulations that we have to meet and we're not meeting them here okay I respectfully disagree uh before I sit down and let someone else uh talk I just want to notify you guys especially Peggy Sue that I have civil rights you have civil rights you put my name my first name and my last name on the patch and if it's quoted right go to the patch you're on there my wife my wife showed it to me I didn't she go well patch is new when you I I'll give you two weeks before I address it with you but if you could go to the patch because they're quoting you on there and it has to do with me with my first name and my last name right and that's a violation of my civil rights and what did I say that I am disgusting oh well the way you talk to us it is I've said that dis the last time we spoke to you I said it right to you that's a violation of my civil rights and my safety to make a public comment like that on the patch I made it at the last you in the paper and they quoted me in the paper the meeting and said it right at the meeting so they must have listened to the tape and did it anyone anyone else come on name Regina descends the Sunset Drive Sunrise Beach um last week I went to the league of municipalities conference in Atlantic City and I attended the P3 um presentation with Veronica and Tim and Johnson Controls and after listening to a lot of things that were just said one of my questions was Veronica discussed a feasibility study is that the tnm report rep that I saw with like the pages and pages of no not the one that Mr barley has we did a feasibility study for um well before we were even discussing anything with tnm about the potential size of a new facility all right so that's something I then I want to Oprah because I don't think I've seen that one yeah so it's a one it's a one-page report based may it might be three-page report based on the potential square footage we would need for a new building so each department head had worksheets to do um and they provided worksheets like what is your current staff where do you think your staff will be in 10 years you know what do you have in your in your offices so yeah so I could give you the final report just throw in the open request for me because the big long report that I did read didn't have yeah that has nothing to do with that didn't have the same type information okay that's what I wanted to know for sure yeah the other thing was there was a PowerPoint presentation and slideshow that was done at Atlantic City do you have that available if I was to request that no I don't because it wasn't mine it was made by um I think DMR you don't have it no I don't have it okay it belonged to someone else can we get it well it's there I can ask but it's it's there they created it I don't um Mr Connors I'm sorry so DMR created a slideshow presentation about the P3 process during the league of municipalities during our seminar that we gave I mean it's their property I don't I don't have the right to get it or I mean I guess they could give some they give it to us we can provide it but but some of the information they're the master of their own information right but some of it did pertain to Lacy right Ian no it was no that of the law it was just an overview it was an overview of the law it wasn't specifically noted to our project okay that's all I was curious about if we could get the DMR slides thank you I'll ask anything else come on up name please uh yes Richard bidnick excuse me um okay a couple things I want to start off with um thank you mayor and Township committee and I the people here from Lacy Township and the people who live out in TV Land who watch these meetings first we have Thanksgiving come coming up and I'd like to wish everyone a very Happy Thanksgiving and a safe Thanksgiving as we watch as our nation has been changing and we're losing a lot of our freedoms both locally Statewide and nationally why we still have them we should be grateful I don't know what it will be like in 5 years but it is a big concern for all of us who are especially independent thinkers like myself and who value independent Freedom which our country was founded on um so with that said I want to start off with um our mayor um Mr McDonald um at the last meeting sir uh one of our Township committee members literally stood up at this meeting turned around his turned his back on a voting member of the public who pays his salary and walked out of this meeting and refused to listen to what a taxpayer had to say I'm not making any judgment on anything that about what he was reportedly reading or what she supposedly wrote Because I don't really care you know exactly what you wrote Because I announced it before before I am speaking sir I don't care Mr bck I don't care I don't care if you're speaking I'm not going to sit up here and allow you to make disparaging comments about me you know me long enough I'm not going to do it if you don't like it it's too bad control the meeting Mr Mayor please continue please I'm speaking okay mayor McDonald there's a perfect example of our problem that we have here so as I go on I'm going to remind everybody that you are all being paid by us the taxpayers and that you are to be respectful to us I'm just an employee I'm I'm a disrespectful employee yes you are and you should be fired listen you know anyone who works for anyone can't make everyone happy and I'm not going to try and make you happy anymore do you don't like it it's too bad do you have a ethics issue with our the body and the way that they behave and the way that they treat the public Mr Mayor do we could you repeat that question please sir okay my question is do we have an ethical uh policy on how members of this body are to address the public and the way they treat members of the public who you basically are our employees and I would fire you if you worked for me in an instant November you can but I don't work for you well I'm suggesting if you don't have one that you put one in place so that we don't have to deal with this kind of nonsense any longer you don't have to deal with it you are making the point of exactly the reason why you start conversation know what the word respect all du respect and then you disrespect us you do it online and you do it here and if you think I'm going to sit here and allow you to do it to me you're wrong do you understand okay let me explain something to you exp you want my father taught me that resp respect is something that is ear and obviously you didn't you didn't get that lesson because you don't give it how's that sound keep it up I will perfect example of why we have to change this government you're absolutely right absolutely and we are going to make it happen because we can use these tapes and show the public exactly the behavior that we've been seeing from this body I came up here to make positive criticism EXC criticism is that what you call it oh I'm asking for your resignation right now you are a disgrace right back at you and you have disgraced this body and you've disgraced our town do you know that my cousin watched the video of the last meeting he lives in Las Vegas and he actually wrote to me he said I am absolutely appalled who is that man to treat people from the public that way I don't like to get up here and have to shout and be been reelected to this position to serve the township and believe me I speak to a lot more people than you who really wish you would go away well I know a lot of people who wish you would go away November I'm sure you will be out it's disgraceful it really is I'm GL I'm glad you approve I'm sorry Veronica that you have have to like deal with this I couldn't imagine having to to deal with somebody like that I don't know but anyway um Mr Mayor I'm asking about a code of ethics for the behavior of the township committee I would like you to put a committee together where you will deal with this and the way that you the members of the committee will address the public so we will never have to do with this type of thing again I'm asking you as a taxpaying member and a spokesperson for a lot of people in this community I would appreciate if you would take that under consideration sir I will take it under consideration thank you very much now um I happen to uh listen to um the uh P3 conference that was conducted by the mayor and Veronica um I want to compliment you Veronica uh you did a good job in explaining your position I don't agree with your position but I I totally respect that the one thing comment that I did want to make is that you were rushing through well um I apologize for that um I have a tendency when I get a little nervous to talk a little too fast and I know that's one of my um Achilles heels so to speak yeah because there was so much information that was given a lot more than what I've heard in all the meanings that I've been to yes that was one comment that I did get from people while it was very good and informative and it was so much you spoke a little too fast but that's one of my nervous little right so um but I think you did a good job as I said at presenting your position so but there were certain things that were brought up first the gentleman from Johnson Controls brought up about the inflation adjustment that was a big big red flag for me because we've had 18% inflation over the last two years right that could be a huge burden on the taxpayer and I have a real problem with any inflation adjustments what's whatsoever in any of these contracts because we will be on the hook we the taxpayers and hey we just had it now during the 80s the inflation was like what 15 16% a year for several years in a row do you realize what that would do seriously to the taxpayers of this community so that is a nogo as soon as I heard that I was like well this isn't this isn't going to fly just with this so um I'm also interested in knowing what if Johnson Controls during the 30 years went bankrupt I mean a lot of companies go bankrupt they're not even an American company any longer if they went bankrupt and we have this deal with them we the taxpayers are going to be on the hook I mean this is like another issue because nobody has done this and is a major concern so uh you know the idea of doing this with third party is something again that we really really really need to um look at that could Happ I would just say that that's a danger in any project in which the governing body would contract right but if we own the building we're not going to be going bankrupt the town owns the building correct just happened in unfortunately their contractor for their building walked away from the building no no I understand that I'm talking about there's Bond they're bonding they're bonded right so performance guarantees would prevent a situation from so say but say 15 years from now Johnson Controls has to file for bankr Bond performance bond the required will be required under performance guar okay and who pays for this Bond the insurance company they get it from the insurance company and that's so I'm assuming that all those cause have to be added into this project because somebody's not going to put that Bond forare of that yeah when we when we go out to bid for a project let's say this project was bid instead of going to P3 it's a traditional approach to Contracting for the construction the municipality would have to have retained the service Professional Service of an architect The Professional service of an engineer the cost of that would be probably 15% of the estimated construction cost General architectural fees are anywhere from 10 to 20% alone engineering might be anywhere from a percent a half to two and a half% maybe he's even up to 5% so let's take the minimum of 10% that we know on a construction cost estimate of 50 million would be five we'd be paying $5 million or 10% of that so in that predevelopment agreement that has cost up to 5 million would be the traditional amount that the town would have to pay for an architect to design something and then we would have to go out to bid and then we would go with a low bid contractor that's what happened in barnegate they went with a low bid contractor the contractor run into problems their performance bond kicks in and then the insurance company takes over to build the rest the performance bond they have to calculate that Within in their cost of that's what I figured yeah so you're absolutely right it's figured in that cost okay so the other question I have too is about the money we get from the state for the power plant now that's not going to go on forever well they have to change the legislation and Mr Conor can tell you that and that would affect every single municipality in the state of New Jersey if they change the formula in the legislation so um very well could and there's a possibility because there's a push right now to increase that to what we rightfully should be getting because because it was it's been stagnant for all these years and technically we get 11.1 million we should honestly be getting a little bit over 18 million but I understand but what are the conditions for us receiving that money town it's built it's built into the statue okay right and so and and that was to protect municipalities that hosted nuclear facilities correct yes so really there are only several communities that it applies that's correct Creek uh and wasn't that partly also be it would continue until the cleanup was done and then no indefinitely forever correct correct okay until and unless the Law changes yes and we know those I will just tell the backdrop of that story just for inside baseball as long as Steve Sweeney was the Senate President Chris Connor rested a lot easier because his district contained a nuclear power plant so he would have made sure the legislation would never be changed correct so that if because there's a poison pill in there that makes sure that if they try to take the money you know it so but now he's not and we hopefully that the the the new elected senator from that District would be equally protective of maintaining it because I can tell you somebody's always looking over their shoulder they're usually from the northern part of the state that says hey Lacy Township's getting all that money we want a part of it or the state of New Jersey says we want more of it like they did the distribution of energy receipts tax so it's always a potential I can't say that it's never there the likelihood is that it will remain but people worried that when the power plant closed right that all of a sudden we were going to lose that money and even when the power plant went offline and wasn't generating electricity we were still getting the uh the money coming in but even if it closed the statute protects it so that it will be there as long as that law stays in cor if I'm not mistaken doesn't that law tie into if that law is changed or removed it has something to do with New Jersey being able to collect the corporate business tax yes there's a poison pill in there right that it would reinstitute the corporate business tax then yeah but there's people the Democrats want to tax everybody we know that so they may do something see the point is is that how many other power plants are there now that there's three right so say when all the power plants go away which they will they don't they're not going to then they could just immediately change the law and said we don't have any more power plants so we're going to take these funds away this is the thing that is a big concern for myself uh and where that money because that's a huge amount of money 11 million 12 million a year right and then we want to add on a new building which could cost us millions of dollars a year and in the future for more than for 30 years which then can add up more my feeling about all this is this okay and I have talked to a lot of people just like Steve has probably a lot more than Steve has but the issue with this is is that it's not a necessity no one has been able to prove to me that this is a necessity it's a desire amongst certain people that you would like to do I don't even like the location of where you want to put this new facility you want to put it off in the back somewhere hey if you're going to have a new build building you might as well show it off right uh but no you don't want to do that I also don't agree with um selling off the properties and then putting in these what I call these box stores which are ugly there's no plan about anything about making the town beautiful attractive for newer people to want to come here and stay here these are issues that I am very concerned with um and for this reason and for things that we've been seeing that have been happening on this body and because even you uh Mr katalo brought up the comment tonight about the governor making his mandate that we you know about the electric cars you're trying to make you're basically trying to make the same plea and do the same thing by building a municipal complex that the people don't want and uh and we can't afford so it's not really fair for you to go after the the governor on that although I I totally agree with you I'm not in favor of the EVS it's the same process it's like like well if he can do it you know why can't you do it well I can assure you I wasn't taking his lead no I'm not saying that you were but the the I'm just making a point about this and it's um and it's something that we really need to like talk about okay Steve brought up some really good ideas I I was a director of public libraries I've had libraries open from 9:00 am to 9:00 p.m I had to have two shifts it's public building public facility um we could do the same thing here yes you can change conts I had a union I had to deal and I had to fight with them every tooth of the way and I'm a fighter because I represent the organization that I work for they are ultimately who pays my salary and that is who I do my marching orders with Mr Mr bid could I just say one thing I to interrupt you let me just interject if I can respectfully um you know when I look out in our in our field here in our in our our pews our seats I don't see that many people opposing we're a town of nearly 30,000 people astutely Mr diof did bring up a few weeks ago that U because he's been here the longest and what he said was there was Miles more opposition and I recall it back in 2003 four five to the Rail Trail Road being put in in fact very recently there was much more agitation in the room on both sides for something as simple as cutting grass at Bayfront Park so I believe you and I have some of your concerns I got skin in the game I paying taxes too but I want to hear from the people if they if they are here they need not be worried or concerned about visiting our meeting they could email I'm going to tell you we haven't received that much opposition I'm sorry to say but because you've kept it pretty quiet and if people don't read and look we''ve had people go go door too so I know we have had people go door too to do samplings in different areas of our town and most of the people didn't know anything about it the large majority of them did not know and this is just recent so you know we are doing the groundwork because we don't feel that you have it's not been in the patch it's not been in chatter it's not been on Facebook it's not been on the TV meeting there's been Artic there's a lot there have been some articles in the patch but I have to tell you A lot of people are so busy working two jobs trying to put food on the table they don't have time for this and then all of a sudden it's going to be thrown in their face when it becomes a feta complete and then you know it's like where is the money going to come from for uh you know for people to pay for all of this type of stuff I can guarantee you this and I don't mean to be adversarial but I am very very very passionate about this you by doing this have given us a movement which will move forward to change the the government that we have and actually the idea from all the people I've been talking to everybody loves the idea of having Wards with a delegate we can have nine I looked at the law we could have a maximum of nine we can have an elected mayor who doesn't have a vote unless there's a tie and who will conduct the meetings and appoint committees that have to be approved by the entire delegation the person who is the delegate from their area would be the representative that represents those people so everyone would be able to go to somebody specifically who lives in the area and has their concerns and understands perfect example has been the forkid River Beach area I've been watching this now for months and months and months and if we had a delegate who was living over there who had a vested interest in that area of the town and who was listening and bringing the people together I know you do no but I'm just saying I'm using this as an example but you know was bring everybody together on your own because that's your power to meet with those people to educate them and come up with a consensus that the people who live there will be happy with few people that sit on here most of them don't live over there you do are going to be making their decision and what do they care I mean quite frankly it's like the feeling is that most of us feel at this point that we have like a sham for a government and I hate to use that word and this Municipal complex thing is a sham too to a lot of people and you know right now in our country government does listen to the people we're fighting wars in the Ukraine and now money to Israel our roads are falling apart our airports are falling apart our country is falling apart we have all these people coming in over the Border we have an invasion here are we protecting our own country no we're not it's scary and on our local government we should have at least some control and this is the point that I'm making and we are prepared we are planning I have the the the m Maps we're working on the population of about 3,000 for each area the people in Bamber who are left out there in left field will actually have a representative who represents their interest for once who can come here and represent their desires for the community and also you know if you had that you would have somebody in there who would be getting the feedback to you about this Municipal complex because they would actually be talking to the people and being neutral about it and saying well how do you feel about this you know do we really need this or what would you like to see maybe it's more scaled back maybe the desires of the people in the community are a little bit more uh scaled back you know you may have your desires but it may not be exactly the same that's in tune with the population that you are elected to serve and that is the point of why the changing the government needs to happen the community has grown too much we've got 30,000 people the last time this government changed we had 4,000 people in this town in 19 your early 1970s it's just too large there's too many things going on and people aren't listening you just you continued to move forward on this project meaning after meeing we've had people talk and it's just like we're talking to a brick wall if I could just speak for a second mrck I did at the last meeting I I believe you were here yes you were um I did say that there's no doubt that our presentation should have been different came out different I I was the first one to say it and say I take responsibility along with the other folks on here with me I'm not saying that that changes anything I'm just saying we take responsibility for what we do but the truth of the matter is it's just like you know when we had to go and buy aund a $1 million fire Tru these are decisions that we're voted here to make okay they're not always going to meet everybody's standards they're not always going to please everybody's thoughts okay but they're decisions that we have to make good bad or otherwise they're not always going to be what everybody out there wants or doesn't want well and I totally understand that but the fact of what I'm trying to say to you is by having a more representative government you will have a lot less of the kind of nonsense that sometimes we see at these meeting Mr bnck I would say if I I would say be careful what you asked for I would I would just underscore it like this you used and and it's a beautiful part of our town forkid River Beach if you have a forkid river Beach person you said you can go up to nine people that forkid River Beach person some something may be of vital importance and I would underscore it because me and cranberry Hill I'm I might have a concern the same thing but the point is that week that day it's going to be the forkid River Beach issue that forkid River Beach representative is going to have to convince at least four other people up here to to play ball to figure it out I don't have a problem with that that's a difficult I could tell you being in the back room your people go you think it's called democracy I agree but you think it's all one party and it's Kum Baya we fight pretty good there's a lot of disagreement I'm sure there is that's a tough not inter mayor yes uh yeah um you may not like the job I'm doing up here but if if I were elected May you really might not like it because it's a lot harder to get a mayor out especially a strong mayor they they sort of dictate what they're doing the one good thing about Lacy and it's great is that I you know Tim's here now he won't be here next year he won't be S he won't be mayor next year so and we all have an equal vote and if you think that any one of us can tell any one of the other people you know you know what we're doing or how to do it that's not how it works we fight many times like cats and dogs oh I'm sure you do the whole point too is I want to see the removal of the D and the r because people just vote when they see if you're a Democrat or you're a republican it's so bad in a local level like this we don't need to have that we don't need to have Democrat versus Republican we're all in this together and I do know people they don't know if they don't know they'll just go in and see if it's a Republican or a Democrat and they'll just click and vote for that person and they may be the worst person actually that's running so this is another issue I think actually the idea is going to get a lot of traction and it will be beautiful and um I would love to sit back someday and see our first elected mayor and total delegation that represents each area of your town and then feel like I actually made a major contribution to make things better in my community and I I literally welcome every single person in our town to join me in doing this it's a wonderful thing it will give us some say more say than we have now and I feel that uh this Municipal complex thing would go nowhere if we had that kind of a government right now and I thank you very much for all the opportunities you've given me to speak on behalf of a lot of people who I really care about and um just so you know when I was up in Vermont I had to do six referendums at exactly the same time because I had to get new I came up with a new funding plan for the kellwell covered Library Corporation it was funded by six towns I literally had to do that for each town we had the vote on town meeting day which is the first Tuesday in March and to explain a little bit to people here how different democracy Works in some other states in Vermont on town meeting day if you go the citizens who can vote and live in that town if there's something that you want money for the budget is voted on by the citizens and if there's a line item that's on you that you want more money for like the library people could get up and say I would like to add that and if they get the majority of the people to vote for it they that money goes to the library or it goes to any other organization it's called true democracy and it was very humbling because I had to go and defend the library's increase and people were struggling you know they say I love the library but I really can't afford this and blah blah blah blah it's a very humbling experience when the people actually have that form of democracy it's for us when we even try to put the budget together and make decision of where we have to put money and it's it's not easy no it's not and that's the point that I'm making is that we don't have this in New Jersey as a viable way that we can do this but other states do it and it really brings the communities together because we feel like we really do have a voice I know I experienced it but anyway I got all six towns to approve I had to go from 9:00 in the morning till 8:00 at night straight from one place to another to another to get it to be uh approved and it was really really something of course the city of monar has a different voting system than the other five because it's a larger population area but we I know how to do it I have people I'm working with and I'm determined to make this happen and I hope that in the end you people instead of maybe fighting us on this will support it and see it's the way forward for the the town as is grows and thank you very much again Happy Thanksgiving to everybody and you have a good night thanks thank you very much any other comments um uh name please Linda Miller um I've been to the microphone once before I was nervous then and I'm nervous now um everything that was said tonight a lot of I I agree about um I am way opposed to the municipal complex um mainly because um I see our our whole country is in turmoil right now and as far as finances go I know everyone that lives in the town has a different amount of money in their budget and uh I'm not so sure that if we go ahead with this that we will have enough money in our budget I mean our taxes will go up they've already gone up uh for this last quarter and um I'm telling you I'm I come to these meetings and it's very upsetting um when people start shouting at each other um that I it's just not good it's nerve-wracking I go home from these meetings and I'm here because I love my my community my neighbors um I can't sleep and I'm not even on the committee so I'm just probably one of those people that that feels that way and the other people people aren't here because they're again they're working they're tired it's raining who wants to come out on a rainy night and it's just I mean I could go on and on but it it's just um you see the amount of time and energy that um um a few people here have put into um examining all the papers and the legal stuff and all that energy has gone into we're still at a standstill and we don't know what we're doing and um I I just um I well I can go into the the part about uh working the hour is different you know starting earlier in the morning and staying later at night some of that would help our community because a lot of people work um I'm some I retired now so I can come over to the township if I have something I need to do where other people that are coming home from work uh they can't do it any day but when Monday through Friday there's you know tell timey can really come over and talk to somebody um so just a lot of little things but um I do respect everyone um and I hope that you really will consider that maybe this isn't a good time for this uh 30 years I'll be 10 six hopefully you will be right so but uh for everyone that you know is still here and I'm not I I'm I'm not so sure it it's really good right now thank you very much thank you you your name please Kelly Norton uh I'm one of those forkid River Beach people that you've been talking about um and I work uh usually on Thursday and I can't come here on Thursday and since I watch the meetings on a 65 inch screen TV and I can listen to all of your comments at that time and I take little notes and at 2 o' in the morning right yeah I have hot flashes I told her and I'm up in the middle of the night and that's what I get to do I get to watch you guys um because there are some things that are important to me and I was here on January 6th 2021 when I first moved here and I was so nervous and my voice starts to crack when I'm nervous and I don't know why because I could talk to anyone I work in a restaurant and I could talk to you so that you could give me your underwear but when I'm in front of you and I see people be feel like people are behind me makes me nervous so um I'm here because I do watch and I watch some of the things that you guys say and I watch the way the people on forkid River Beach treat each other and it really is a sad situation and when this gentleman or he's gone now said there may be a representative I don't know that that's what I'm really talking about but I'm talking about someone to make peace because I don't always agree with you Mr collo or you Mr dcof or maybe you Mr Kennis because sometimes you guys just say that's the way it is and that's the way I feel but you are supposed to be representing us so sometimes you have to listen to a few crazies to get a feel for what everybody has to say and sometimes you have to wait to listen to a lot of people before you can make a judgment or a call on something that maybe you don't know as much about maybe somebody else knows more about you can't know you can't have such a big brain that you know all the things so one of the things that bothers me a lot and I brought pictures for you guys isk jul thank you I brought them for you too thank you may thank you Perfect all right beauty is in the ey is Beholder that's right some of the things that are on Beach Boulevard are not so beautiful some of them that I don't think are so beautiful but the people who have them they believe they're beautiful to them and it's their property now I do have to look at them so you have to see some of the the pictures that are there some of them are W an artwork that are in one of the gentleman's yards who called some of the other people Tree Huggers and weed Huggers some of them are the man who never comes to a meeting and I think that his items are the most egregious because from my beautiful view I get to look at it with neon lights that are on it in the middle of the night and maybe my daughter when she was five really liked pink but it wasn't my idea of something that's beautiful well the pictures of the weeds that are plants I do think are nice but besides them being nice I am one of the seven homes that the water is as someone put it lapping at my doorstep I'm not on the walk I'm on Bayside Beach and I'm going to say this and I apologize if there's anybody here which is made up of a bunch of old men on a group and no one wants to listen they just want things the way they were 30 years ago or 50 years ago and it's not that way anymore because 30 years ago or 50 years ago you had 150 ft in front of you and the way I know that is because when I left here on this sixth Mr dof said to me we're going to have a meeting about this and we're going to talk about it and we'll let you know what happens well no one's called me since then I don't know what happened at that meeting I don't know if anyone really ever talked about it but I never came back because I felt like who's going to listen to me so instead Veronica told me call BR maybe she can help you so I started that and then I went to my I went to Andy Kim well that was a mistake he wrote me this really bogus you know thing and and and then I went to Chris Smith's office he was in Freehold and I brought him all the pictures of the water halfway up our lot that we we didn't have a house built on by then and yes we were stupid my husband bought this lot that was eroded and he saw a view in front of him and thought Oh this is beautiful but we didn't know people said oh they're going to put a million dollars out into the bay everything's going to be fine you're going to be good well we believed them we didn't know I should have done research but I've done research I've knocked on doors I knocked on Mrs Doyle's door I was scared you know I thought I was going to get yelled at but she had pictures from the 60s she had stuff that she shared with me and I can tell you that no one fights with her more than I do but she is a Fountain of Knowledge and she knows a lot more than I do I knocked on Ellie's door who has been here forever and and Diane who's that I knocked on everybody's door and something slammed their the door in my face and I tried to say we have a problem we have a problem not just on our side of the beach it's the whole street that has the problem the plants whether they're pollinators or they're holding the soil in and I talked to Doc uh um Dr hals today because I I said to him why did you go say fragm mites I is bad because now they all want the fragm mies gone well fragm mites holds the ground more than anything else that's it fragm Mighty is in front of my neighbors unfortunately Ely I cannot get it to grow by us because we are so wet we can't even get it to grow today is bad out by the bay if you've been there it looks like the ocean right now it takes the roots down like to the botom you could see the rise Zone infrastructure and as soon as the sand comes back it it comes right back it doesn't you know it it holds the ground and the people along the walk think that those stones in front of them are going to protect them forever well it isn't because the pictures that are at the end are last October it was in nor Easter it wasn't even a horrible one and when the mayor said he's worried about the plants overtaking the walk well what about the water overtaking the walk because it's going to lift the walk that's there there and Mr C you said it's only a little part that Park is only a little Park we have 172 Acres of beachfront mileage of beile mileage sorry mileage I wrot down Sandy Hook down to Kate may but every little bit matters what we do does matter so why shouldn't we be allowed to cut our grass what if somebody trips and falls we wanted to build those Gabon walls higher to stop just what's showing in this picture we got pushed back by homeowners because it would block their view well we have why is the grass down there more important than the grass in our in our park that's most frequented like hudie Park there's different birds and flowers and grass all of it is important when you cut it there's a b there there's a bay in park in Hebrew Park allowed to take care of the property in our town if a child and a mother are on that Park we want we want an award from a company in San Francisco that that built that mommy and me park that that is a another of many gems in our town that I and I know everyone up here is very proud of if it's not maintained and somebody trips and falls are you going to pay the lawsuit no I am not well as a taxpayer I guess yes I am going to pay the lawsuits you're correct I am you cut your grass it grows back but it's my turn right I learned that it's my turn go ahead okay so to answer your question someone said that garbage builds up well Veronica or the the DP Ron Ron Rob sent me I'm the crazy lady who does brush her hair in the morning and runs out in her sweatpants and picks the garbage out of your gaban that's in the front they sent me grippers so that I could pick it out it's a lot easier to pick garbage or to walk in grasses than to walk on rocks or to walk on that metal cage and the people do they do to pick up the garbage and that is more of a danger than any of that grass and I'm not being disrespectful but it's different there is water a huge body of water in front of that little pathway a huge body you don't destroy it by cutting it it grows back it's a site it is a wind break it is important I am not talking about pollinators I'm talking about people's homes and because the only people there who have been there for years are Miss Doyle and miss burkowitz the other people are here for like 3 years like me but I came from Union City and then I went to manalan what the heck did I know about water the people see a view and they think that that's the most wonderful thing and that's why they bought their homes I'm just saying listen Mr CA just listen to all the facts before you say so so I think from from that meeting I think I said if I live live there I said I I would not cut I think that's where my and you also said my vote is to cut the Upland portion let the people decide on cutting Upland portion but they didn't just cut the Upland portion whether it was an error or not they cut well so I don't think so you I don't think we went into detail about all that stuff but my my point was to the homeowners that you know again that's your you're you sort of giving them a you know a voice in it where if they want it cut but it is it's your we we understand that but so we I understand that and um but as you're here you know we hear for both sides like that was the best way I thought we could come up with a a reasonable it is but I think that even some of the people who are against cutting if they listened to real facts about how you're going to end up losing your beautiful homes if you don't do something or the water the one woman has a pool during sand the Rocks were in her pool the gabian has sunk so the water comes over even more easily now I have am the only one on the seven group The Seven houses that has a wall in front of them because those people who were up there uh say Barnet Bay and Barnet Bay partnership before the D decided in their judgment said to me Kelly put in for a retaining wall so you can get sheeting because if you don't do that you're going to lose what little property that you have and then my husband and his vast wisdom said we're going to put it in 5 feet in from our property line so that we have more and they turned around to them because they were there and him and said what are you crazy put it on your property line because that you want to protect it because it's going to be gone so now what's happening is the wall was 5 feet above ground and and um 5 feet below ground well now the wall the top wall is not high enough right the water is at the wall and the ground it the sand is like I have to yeah I need a ladder now to jump down to the Bay so it is deteriorating at a vast rate all I'm saying is respectfully just Listen to Everybody CU we have to live there that's it I do want to compliment you because when I first met you when you first moved here you like you said you knew nothing you have educated yourself so much on the knowledge and on the Bayfront and everything that you've done I mean you're wealth of knowledge now and youve come a long way with everything you did so you should be very proud of everything and we are working we've met with the do I just met with the do last Friday um we are trying to as you know waning to fill in back to I think the 1995 line as to where the shoreline was they'll never let us go back to the to the 1977 line yeah the so you see you know what I'm talking about no I know what you're talking about because I have read a lot I have knocked on a lot of doors I have gone to a lot of places that I never thought that I mean I went to the governor's office you know and I'm like hello somebody please listen I didn't get really far but you know what one the people who live on the the the end of the block they're the the security guard for the governor like they're one of his like so you you if you don't find out who lives around you but a lot of people so it's just it's just my opinion but you were you were referred astutely by administrator Laray I would say um to me and it's my own opinion it's my own experience and my own opinion I'm not going to pass judgment these these barnegate Bay groups the gentleman that was here from Stockton when we were at the meeting last week when okay with when we were at a meeting at at Community Hall several weeks ago there was an academic from uh New Jersey Institute of Technology these folks come in this is what they really want they don't want you to use they don't like when boats are there they don't like when jet skis are there they don't like the fact that you have a house on the water the listen you're not going to get any any any help from them they they don't want sustained development they want a sustained retreat they don't want people to build on or use the bay the bay is part of our heritage our history and our future it's extremely healthy so they may come down and talk and and try to pass and give wisdom to The Peasants I'm every bit they academic equal they want to talk I'm willing but please don't tell us that we can't cut grass we can't take care of our Bay we can't recreate on it we can't go to tyon Sholes we shouldn't fish it's all of our Bay it's a part of the history and the future so I'm hopeful I'm not being contentious I'm hopeful that those entities see our point of view and were able to use the bay well now that you said that I'm going to say something so along that wall and I I I feel better when I'm kind of being spunky along that wall you have people who live there now our side has beach access even though they want to say that it is a private beach it is not because by law there is Public Access there are easements two of them on our side there's one easement on your side right yes but your one easement cannot get to the water which is kind of an illegality because you're supposed to have access to to the water not necessarily touch and field you only have to provide view access and field okay but prior to the gaban people could take their kayak into the water a lot of that neighborhood had a real problem because just what you're saying they couldn't recreate they can't bring their canoe or their kayak shouldn't you be allowed to it's your property you stopped it you take it over the gab with it it's not safe to I mean there's other points of access I'm looking at the overall the macro no there is no other not our property there's no points of unless they go on our property which is deemed public property but it really I mean private property but it really isn't anything we did down there we were compelled to do by an entity that made us do it but you cannot have your cake and eat it too you can't talk out both sides of your mouth it has to be and I'm not say that does sound fresh I don't mean it to sound fresh I am saying it because when you're saying I could see everybody partying in in Ty's sh if I didn't throw up all over the place when I go on a boat I would love it but I like to go in the kayak and luckily well not I can't either now because I can't get to the water unless I throw that kayak you know in I can because I pay my dues to the association to the association I'm allowed to walk on the property that's already public which I already fight with them about but those people on the other end they can't so you can't have it out both sides I'm just asking you I know you're feeling you told me when we were at that meeting you know uh but all those people are out there told me to protect my property they weren't oh I want you to be protected green and you know and and I don't care if they're Democrat green party Republican I could care L I could care less you know uh my grandmother used to say there's good and bad in everybody you know so it doesn't matter who you are it's just to listen you know before you make your judgment and smack your hand down just listen And It's hard sometimes because I heard a lot of garbage coming on both sides and it's not nice to talk about people and that's what they're doing and uh Peggy said they're making it a war it's not a war it's reality the water is rising so we understand your concerns we you know met with the dot Friday via a zoom call so they are looking to do some dredging out I want to say Double Creek or something like that some channels that they need to open up so there is talk about them if we can get the permit at a d to hydraulically pump sand into that area there so we are talking about that however in order to get that sand to stay there there are other things right there are other the well the grin in some revetment out at the 1995 line like a structure of rocks or something to keep that sand in there so it will keep building instead of Shing somewhere else so we are working on that the do has been very very Cooperative we have met with Chris miss several times his office has gone out to your Properties or out to that area um unfortunately when you uh it will also require an Army Core um permit and what they all say which which is a is a benefit cost analysis what benefit is it for us to spend this money to do this project and that's what they need to is is there a real benefit cost analysis to do this and they have to weigh those options so I you know a lot of these federal agencies aren't willing to do that because there's not enough benefit for them to pump in the money right now to put out the groin to build the sand to do all of that an Engineers estimate it's a rough estimate was $6 million wow yes you want to talk about wow Friday I almost fell out of I almost fell out of my chair on Friday because I'm like man I must be out of touch with pricing you know but this is a lot of with the engineers and so on and so forth trying to fight to get these permits made out of rubble now it has to be something that is not just you know old shuffle board cour we're looking yeah we're looking for some alternatives to see what can we do that's more cost effective to still get the same end result and like if the dot is willing to pump in the sand and you know the craziness about the sand is that the grains of sand that are currently there have to match the grains of sand that they're pumping out of the Double Creek I know yeah but they looks like the grains of sand should match the dot told me so we're hoping for that I mean because the sand that leaves and goes you know it's all kind of our sand yeah yeah so and it does look really dirty when it's pumped out but once it dries out it's beautiful sand it's good sand thank you very much I thank you for your comments anything else come on uh please state your name I would like to invite all of you to walk from Walmart to the new intersection of uh hanne Street in Lake warnette okay there's no place to walk you walk on the sidewalk to a fence and then you have to walk out into traffic they took the shoulder off the road completely you can't even go up into the grass cuz you there's mailboxes in the way Walmart street so where to Lake barnegate from Walmart L Walmart side Lake barnegate to Walmart okay so um there was a walking area there was a shoulder well there was a shoulder but we've we've um increased the lanes there now CU you have the center turning lane so you got rid of most he eliminated the entire shoulders shoulder and now children have to walk to school take a look thank you very much children from Jacqueline Court walk to school that's the street does I don't know why jacn wouldn't anybody that walks well I mean those lots were pre-existing um to before today's code um now you're you have to put in sidewalks but um those houses were all pre-existing um we'll take a look at it engineer and she told me she was hired to put a lane in not nothing to do with pedestrians she she was given direction to to to do exactly what she did and they did yes blind people that there there's no way for anybody blind I was told the blind house uh U oh an Emerald Court emeralds Court they're on the association for the blind they still nowhere to walk but that's just on the Han Street portion you're talking okay look into it thank you anything else G not motion to close the floor second second all favor I motion to go in executive session go ahead resolution 2023 330 resolution in the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the convening of an executive session in accordance with the open public meetings act motion second Mrs Juliano yes Mr K yes Mr D yes Mr kenis yes mayor MCD motion to adjourn motion to adjourn move thanks K second all in favor all right