adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public meeting Act pursuance of the public laws 1975 said notice was advertised the as Park and Beacon was posted on the bolt board showing the time and place meting please rise for pledge of allegiance of the United States of America and to the repic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay uh first Proclamation is honoring Dawn cre all right let me read it here and then go to that whereas the town Lacy wishes to honor Dawn Kramer and her daughter Hazel for for bringing exensive Community together of lacy at the time when the people felt the most Alone by bringing Zumba on a b Bas paced dance class that focuses on cardi muscular condition flexibility set to music to our Township whereas during covid-19 when gyms were not allowed to host exercise classes non participated in in outdoor Zumba classes offered by her gym and was able to bring her seven-year-old daughter Hazel who has Down syndrome with her and whereas when the restrictions were erased EAS the gym resumed hosting exercise classes indoors there was a maximum capacity due to co guidelines she could no longer bring Hazel to her class so in the winter of February 202 one Bond began practicing her Zumba with her friends in Gilly park instead of the gym because it was no fun without Hazel and whereas in April 2021 Dodd made her dream of dancing officially by becoming certified Zumba instructor and hosting Free Zumba classes twice a week in Gilly park for the cost the only cost is a smile and from June through November the in the park at milpond during milpond school during the winter months where zoom in Dawn averages 40 or more students at every time every time every Monday and and Thursdays all those who are dancing exercising to the music while burning calories whereas Dawn's love and commitment to the family and committee is evident is evident in everything she does and has helped Hazel gr go into a confident young girl who is full of joy and ready to ready for anything such as paddle boarding with Mom riding a horse Nam cinnamon participating in a zoom book class or playing with her friends on the playground and where at Bon and Hazel I've created a comfortable fully inclusive atmosphere for people of all ages and abilities who enjoy an hour of Zumba and have great work great workout with while the children have a play date to meet new friends whereas Don Kramer is an individual who has provided a greater service to Lacy Township and our surrounding Community by giving us her time and talent for her and her heart and our great sensor committee now therefore I Timothy McDonald mayor of Township Lacy on behalf of the township committee hereby honored Dawn Kramer and Hazel Kramer for bringing members of our community through Zumba is she here yes she is right there all [Applause] right Jim you've got the photos right thank you that's right you come up there she sees you up there heel come on up that's right does she want to sit in the mayor's seat yeah let her be let her be it's all good it's all good thank you so thank you no different than any others other all right next one we have is a special retirement whereas the Ninth District state senator Chris Connors has announced that he has not seeking reelection later this year and whereas Senator Connors has served 33 years of exceptional Public Service in the state legislature first first as an assemblyman and later securing a senate seat as prior to his time the state legislature Senator Connors was elected to the Lacy Township Committee in 1984 and served as the mayor from 1986 to 1990 and whereas from 1982 to 1998 Senator KH was a deputy director of New Jersey Commission on Capital budgeting and planning and served as director during 1988 and 1989 and whereas when the the service in the assembly uh Senator Conor was ranking was a ranking member of both the assembly Judiciary and Homeland Security and state preparedness committee whereas between 1992 and 1995 Senator Conor served as the assistant majority leader in the State Assembly and whereas throughout his years in the state legislature Senator Conor has received numerous Awards recognitions including but not limited to 1996 public service award from the Ladies Auxiliary of the retired police and fireman's Association of Ocean County the 1999 citizens of the Year award from the Bayville veterans of foreign war post 9503 the 2000 the 2000 this 200 the state BF Commander I read this before I didn't pick that up commander of the 2000 legislative uh Achievement Award from the state retired police fireman's Association the 2013 Robert B Miner award from the New Jersey State Bar Association the 2013 legislator of the Year award for the New Jersey Conference of Mayors whereas the Township of lacy and its residents are fortunate to have state as Senator Connor serve there serve as their mayor assembly and Senator and his presence of the state legisl would be greatly Miss whereas Senator con will now have more time to do the things he enjoys doing such as boating fishing duck hunting with his friends as well as spending time with his wife Debbie son Christopher Jr and his wife Jessica his daughter Kelly and her husband Brendan and his three grandchildren Reagan Kennedy and Miles now therefore I Timothy McDonald mayor Ley Township do hereby on behalf of myself and the township committee hereby honor and congratulate Senator Connors on his many valuable years of service and extend his best wishes on on his retirement from the Senate with continued success and happiness congratulations Jim can you uh handle the camera for us why don't we come down front here yes so Chris you didn't know anything about this did you it as a surprise we got you could read it again I at the in the pitch come on up guys Tim just move Tim just move this out of the way yeah I'm not going yeah his wife who else wife she's the one who's done it all get in there son oh my god dad I just say thank you so very much to the members of the governing body um for the recognition I appreciate it very much this path actually started in this room like years ago in time when I was sworn in um at that time by my father Dorothy Grant who was the clerk I cannot begin to tell you what an honor it has been to serve in any office in any capacity uh it is a privilege to to do so and I've been blessed with the fortune of a great District here in Ocean Burlington Atlantic counties at the time has been an extended family uh throughout those years uh with all those folks that I've been able to work with I will miss the staff in our legislative district office many of you that have contacted our office have been acquainted with them um I say jokingly but there's a level of truth to it that if I were hit by a trolley tomorrow would be about 6 months to a year before you found out that I had passed great job I have every reason to believe that that job will continue with continuity since I understand the staff will be going with the newly elected Senator car along with assemblyman r and assembly Meer but whether it's been here on the governing body in Lacy cap or in the state legislature uh it has indeed been very very much in honor you know when it's time you know when it's time when you start losing a little bit of the step and after 34 years in a legislature and 40 years in public office it gets a little bit harder to make some of those night meetings and schedule some of those other meetings with constituents and if you can't give 100% then it's time for someone else to step in and so I felt it was my time to pump the brakes a little bit spend a little bit more time with family and friends and and my colleagues and to help here in the town that I love so very very much so I want to thank you all um for all the help that you've given me over the years and thank thank [Applause] you be careful Steve you have any words you want to say okay yeah know Chris um yeah know it's been a pleasure having Chris um as our senator for said 34 years in another six on Township committee he's an invaluable resource for all of us and in particular the the last few years that he's served as our our um our legal council has been um you know some of the best Council we've gotten so thank you very much Chris thank you thank you so yes I just repeat the same thing and just want to say how wonderful it is to see your family here and and I I look forward to you spending some time with that you know that's the thing on the boat that's the biggest thing enjoy every moment of it thanks Chris I'm going to bring in Veron you worked with him for a while you got anything yeah I I guess we can U probably blame Senator Connor for um getting me involved in this business when I 16 years old um and when he was serving on the committee he used to bring Kelly around here she wasn't even walking at the time she was crawling around the municipal building here in the offices as as uh Chris came in but I do have to um wish him well on his retirement it's been a long time that we've spent many many years here together um his office and him have always been very helpful to myself and to the residents of lacy and without his guidance and his help I wouldn't be where I am today so I have to thank him very nice on what do you have so remember when I first got involved in politics my wife had gone to a function and and Senator Conor has spoken she goes wow he's really good from me but um you know know Chris known you since I first got involved um just beer in life amazing amazing amazing representative and and having you as a lawyer you're more than a lawyer you're a leader here and having your experience you know no better experience than someone who worked their way up you know I mean yeah you're a lawyer but you were a committeeman you were a mayor assembly and of course now now Senator you know you could go back to being a committeeman I I I can't really say it's great but at any rate Chris thank you for all you do and you're going to do enjoy your beautiful beautiful family he's pretty cute he looks like a Conor looks like a Conor yes and they're pretty cute too so thank you very much thank you Peter what do you have thank you mayor a really short story I uh I guess it was like 16 or so years ago I I I wasn't even a member of the club yet I didn't know what I didn't know I came home as a rookie from the casino Control Commission uh to our house here in Lacy and my wife said a senator Connor called and said you're being put on a gaming commission and I said what and and uh I think his office is on Lacy Road and I said a senator called you while I was at work and he she said yeah I said well did you I I I didn't know anything but I knew you that you had to use the title I and I remember distinctly in the kitchen I said did you address him as Senator and she said yeah I think so well you have to remember and uh but the going happen in my kitchen but I'm I'm telling you what Senator Connor's leadership and his humility I mean a man you ask him a question he knows it but the way he delivers it he's he never gets he never gets uh doesn't appear to get upset if he does he hides it well and I try to emulate him and I can't and so I'm Greatful for you being here thank you so much appreciate you man um Chris has been reach out to Chris Senator excuse me you chat to the senator his guidance I then many times people were talking to me about that we should do this we should do that and I would reach out to Chris and he he would in his very calm demeanor advise me and I would hang up the phone and go yeah Chris is pretty right about that that's that's what we should do and that's that that's what what you need from your Council not you got to do it this way he would he would you know the pluses and the minuses and look at different things and say this is the way you should go and of course we did that uh his beautiful family is just amazing um and whenever you see him he's always got a smile on his face always has a smile on his face and I will tell you a story down at the league of municipalities and I was at a cocktail party that I got invited to and I there was a Democratic senator in there and I was talking to him and I forget his name and he goes where you from and I said Lacy he goes ah he goes Chris Conor I said yes and he looked at me this he looked at me he goes we miss him already so when your peers say they miss you that's the heck of a compliment that's the best compliment you can get and so I congratulate you on your retirement all right okay I don't think we have anything else for the caucus agenda so we no add-ons no add-ons so we could take an adjournment and then we can allow those that like to leave to leave okay we'll take a five yeah motion to adourn for five minutes just to move it move it second I all in favor I we're return for five minutes while we take a little break all right adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public meeting Act pursuance of the public laws 1975 said notice was advertised the report press and the beacon and was posted on the Bolton board showing the time and place to meet please rise to the Su the flag and of Silence toag United States of one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all first up on the uh agenda first reading of ordinance 2023 d32 of fixing determine the salaries wages and compensation of tster Union employees ordinance of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey amending an ordinance entitled an ordinance of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey of fixing and determining the salaries wages and compensation of the officers employees and members of the governing body of the township this is for the Teamsters Union it is a contract from 2024 to 2028 and it has a 3% increase per year in salaries first reading so open this up to the public seconding okay make a motion on this second Mrs Juliana yes Mr K yes Mr D yes Mr C yes may yes resolution 2023 330 urging legislators to oppose a 5659 which concerns insurance premiums resolution of the township of Le County of ocean state New Jersey authorizing we're having a rough night resolution of Township Poli County of otion State New Jersey urging legislators to oppose a 5659 which concerns the dramatic increase of insurance premiums including workers compensation motion moving second Mrs Julian yes Mr Kennis yes Mr D yes yes may yes resolution 2023 331 authorizing the execution of a scheduled C agreement with the county of ocean resolution in the county of ocean state New Jersey authorizing the execution of a SCH agreement with County motion this a Cooperative agreement for um shared services move it second Mrs juli yes Mr Kenn yes Mr yes Mr C yes mayor McDonald yes resolution 20 23- 332 authorizing a leave of absence resolution of the Town FY County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing a leave of absence for Lori KES motion second Mrs Julian yes um Mr D yes Mr C yes may yes resolution 2023 d333 authorizing leave of absence resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing a Le vacines under the federal Family Medical Leave Act move it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr Kenne yes mrov yes Mr yes M yes resolution 2023 d334 authorizing an extension of the Le of absence resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state New Jersey authorizing and extension of the leave of absence for Richard Tupper second Mr Ciro sure Mr Kennis yes Mrs Juliana yes Mr D yes mayor yes resolution 2023 d335 authorizing the execution of agreement with four square research in corpor resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the execution of an agreement with for square research incorporated for Market study Services the township is engaging with a marketing research company um this is to assess potential opportunities for an indoor Recreation Center uh in collaboration with the YMCA moving second Mrs Juliana yes Mr Kennis yes Mr D yes Mr yes M yes resolution 2023 336 authorizing fulfilling filing of a ARP NJ fire Grant resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state New Jersey authorizing the execution and filing of an application to the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs for the fiscal year 202 ARP New Jersey Fire Grant move it second Mr K yes Mr kis yes Mrs Juliano yes Mr D yes mayor McDonald yes resolution 2023 337 authorizing an amendment to an existing Deferred Compensation Plan resolution of the township BLC County of oan state of New Jersey authorizing an amendment and adopting a change to the existing Deferred Compensation Plan with Corbridge Financial Mrs Juliana yes Mr kenis yes Mr D yes Mr yes yes resolution 2023 d338 authorizing a transfer of Appropriations resolution of the township LA county of O state New Jersey authorizing a transfer of Appropriations in accordance with provisions of njsa 48458 motion move it second second Mr kis yes Mr K yes Mrs Julian yes Mr yes yes resolution 2023 d339 providing the cancellation of unexpired authorization balances in the General Capital fund resolution of the township FY County of otion State New Jersey providing for the cancellation of unextended authorization balances in the general Capital fund mov it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr kis yes mrov yes Mr Caro yes yes resolution 20123 340 authorizing the cancellation of old outstanding checks from the current current and Trust accounts resolution of the township of Lac County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the cancellation of old outstanding checks from the Lany Township current and trust account move it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr kenis yes mrov yes Mr May McDonald yes resolution 2023 341 authorizing the cancellation of an old outstanding checks from the tax lean premium account resolution of the township of lacy County oftion St New Jersey authorizing the cancellation of old outstanding checks from the Lacy Township Tax lean premium account second Mrs Juliano yes Mr Kennis yes Mr yes Mr yes May m yes resolution 2023 342 authorizing an increase in the change fund to the tax collector's office resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing an increase in the change fund for the tax collector's office from $750 to $1,000 move it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr kenis yes Mr dof yes Mr K yes McDonald yes resolution 2023 343 authorizing the cancellation of taxes due to a disabled veteran exemption resolution of the township of LA county of ocean New Jersey authorizing the tax collector to cancel 2023 taxes due on a property granted the 100% disabled veteran exemption and refund the resulting credit balance move it second Mr KOLO yes Mr Kennis yes Mrs Juliano yes Mr diov yes mayor McDonald yes resolution 2023 344 authorizing the refund of deposit monies resolution of the township of lacy County of ocean state of New Jersey authorizing the refund of deposits held for the use of Municipal facilities move it second Mr C yes Mr Ken yes Mrs Julian yes Mr D yes yes resolution 2023 345 the payment of Township bills resolution of the township of LA county of ocean St New Jersey authorizing the payment of Township bels it second Mrs Juliano yes Mr kis yes Mr yes Mr yes M yes resolution 2023 346 accepting the resignation of a crossing guard resolution in Township poliy County of oce City New Jersey accepting the resignation of Anthony mu as crossing guard for the township of Le move it second Mr Juliano yes Mr kenis yes Mr yes Mr yes may McDonald yes monthly reports all right for the municipal clerk's office for the month of November receipts were collected in the amount of 9,399 190 municipal court for the month of October was $3,545 2017 Road opening permits for the month of November was $1,247 recycling commodity for the month of November was $149 truck parking for the month of November was $75 and the Community Development Department for the month of November collected receipt to the amount of $582 66 motion to accept the reports is Right Moving second all in favor I before we go to the next one um when we passed the bills we forgot to announce how much they were for any uh it was in the amount of 9,960 95898 thank you motion to approve the township meeting minutes from November 21st 2023 second Mrs julo yes Mr kenis yes Mr K yes Mr yes yes motion to approve the Caucus meeting minutes from November 21st 2023 second Mrs Juliano yes Mr kenis yes yes Mr yes mcdonal yes motion to approve raffle licenses for Lacy 2518 move it second all in favor I motion to approve membership in Loko Harbor Fire Company for Michael Glenn move it second all in favor I motion to approve Junior firefight Junior firefighter membership and the Loa Harbor Fire Company for Adam kismi second all in favor I comments from the committee I have one oh we have an add ordinance 2023 d33 first reading of an ordinance of the township of Ley County of ocean state New Jersey authorizing the sale of public land to LFA urban renewal LLC the designated redeveloper motion move it Mr kis yes Mrs Juliano yes Mr yes yes yes comments from the committee Deputy May canis no comments at this time mayor okay committee woman Juliano I just want to remind everybody that um just to put this out there tomorrow we're having our wreaths delivered for wreaths Across America that we will then lay on Saturday at good luck Cemetery here in our town and with all the good work that the group of people that put this together in our town here more volunteers um we've we've sold over 480 um waths that will be laid at the good luck cemetery and um last year we had over 200 people attend the service and if you're available Saturday it's 12:00 at good luck cemetery and we'd love to see you there that's all Maya thank you thank you commit Dion yes so this will be our last meeting before Christmas so I want to wish everyone who celebrates Hanukkah happy Hanukkah tonight so last night um Merry Christmas Happy Quanza and happy Festivus for the rest of us thank you Comm Court tell thank you two uh short announcements mayor if I may this evening the American uh rescue plan application deadline for businesses is this uh uh the 12823 Ocean County division of Tourism and business development is accepting applications if you have questions call the director her name is Sandra Lazaro and downtown Tom's River 732 929 2000 um that's money that's just out there so if you're eligible apply for it um they're looking to give it away also uh some good news uh New Jersey monthly magazine named uh forkid River not Lacy town but forkid river which I would have preferred Lacy Township one of the 10 best towns to visit in New Jersey uh you can Google that it's a well- read magazine and it's the author was Jill capaz capazo Mery Christmas happy holidays to everyone and on a personal note uh definitely Senator Connor um a man's man Stout stand up full of Integrity appreciate your guidance and your your leadership and um hope you you're with us as long as you need to be as long as you want to be so thank you that's all I have to night man couple of things that I have um I attended I attended the Ocean County May meeting this morning um up at the U Ocean County Technical School in brick um what a wonderful place and um just want to say that you know not everybody not all our kids are are meant for college um and the tech school is is is away uh you know we were talking about it some of the other Mayers try to go get a good electrician today for a good plumber or or something like that it's kind of difficult to get them and they make a very good dollar nothing wrong with working with your hands so if you have a child who you think may not be may not want to go to college may not be College material that's fine uh investigate the Ocean County the technical school we've got I think five spread out throughout the county and they do a wonderful wonderful job um they're getting a lot of businesses to donate money to them so they can get the programs up and going um so it's well well take a look at that the other part of this was this was brought up this morning um and you need to check the uh State calendar on Monday There's an agricultural committee meeting and that is where they're going to vote on this Murphy's excuse me Governor Murphy's new green Energy bill which is uh as I understand I get a chance to check it out today uh we'll be taxing we're putting taxes on all fossil fuels natural gas everything else like that and we'll be um you know they're going to pass it on to us they're going to destroy our short us but here's the thing they and and only threaten can do no public comment voice you can go on and put your comments in in writing and send them out so I would go to again go to the State State website go to the calendar it's Monday the agricultural meeting uh there's a place you can you know Can U put your comments in and so forth like that I would encourage everybody to do that and my last comment is I wish everybody a happy holiday thank you very much okay comments from the public anybody this young lady in the back you can pull the mic just state your name for the record please yes uh Katherine Baron can you hear me yeah it's not going down right you got Twisted no the whole bar if you can pull it down there you go okay just so we can hear good evening Katherine Baron forkid River after uh revealing the proposed project for the municipal complex by Johnson Controls myself and many other taxpayers do not approve it is human nature to desire new and improved but in this present e economy we are paying almost double for everything just to live we the taxpayers are being stretched beyond our means and feel that a project of this ambitious magnitude should be put up for a referendum there are many taxpayers that do not even know that this project is in the works it seems that there must be more transparency so that we the people can make a collective decision with our vote this town is smart enough to creativity creatively fix our existing municipal buildings and move ahead with projects when the economy approves we elected you to work for us please hear us thank you thank Merry Christmas thank you anybody else hold on a second I'll get to you Steve hold anybody else Steve come on El uh Steve barl fora River New Jersey uh happy holiday days um I'm here as the spokesperson for all the taxpayers who do not want you to spend all our money on that Municipal complex it's not needed you didn't do it by the law so far you signed financial documents without telling us and uh I'm going to go through uh what I feel and what others feel about the inappropriate of what you're doing and that you're not hearing what the taxpayers are saying we had a town hall at the library the other night and the people were appalled when we put out the numbers and told them what was going on so anyways when we get to numbers Mr Mayor do you have a number for the new Township complex of which this committee is going to approve no I don't have you don't have a number okay we not that we're going to approve no okay because the last time I asked it was like three weeks ago so in three weeks you haven't met with Johnson the committee hasn't talked to each other about a financial number that you guys are willing to live with and sign away our rights which you already did on that preconstruction agreement and are going to cost us without consent at least a quarter million dollars at the very least we had a meeting with Johnson Controls on Tuesday on Tuesday Tuesday it was a zoom meeting wasn't in person was a zoom meeting myself Mr Kennis Veronica was in there uh and Casey Parker was in the meeting too um what they proposed we had five different Financial models for us we asked them to send the spreadsheet so we could understand it better and pull it apart I think it came in this last night or this morning we got it out to uh everybody today I haven't had a chance to because I got to wait for the sunshine gotta wait till executive session to to talk about it with the rest of the committee which will be tonight uh whether we accept it or reject it I have no idea what they're going to think about it and we go from there so are you going to have a town hall meeting before you sign another document you have to you have to absolutely we it's done by resolution and it's in in a regular meeting where you'll have time when we do resolution it'll say is there any public comment on that and then you guys can come up on just on that one there after well um I will say which I'm going to continue to say each meeting the way that you notify the public is by a law from 1976 it's outdated it's inadequate and the people still don't know even at the library meeting the other night there were a number of people it was their first time that they heard that the township committee has deemed this building inhabitable or whatever you're deeming it because you don't really talk about it you never gave me any estimates of what it would cost to update this building or fix it there's been many alternate ideas from the people here 4-day work week work at home uh split shift uh using another building such as the one you just bought from um the Knights of Columbus or on the uh what I understand on the complex of the power plant there's a three story vacant building why can't you work out a deal it would hold everybody including the police and you can make a deal with those people and then maybe when everything comes down the interest rate construction costs or anything and the committee saves some money towards the project maybe only maybe then will you get some backing R we did talk to the yeah we did talk to the power plant it's not a vacant building and they are using that building U we actually years ago when they first proposed to close the power plant we approached that who's using it they are HTE us htech is using yes we actually approached them about using the building well I was told that it's vacant so you're saying it's not I'm going to research it further okay okay they us now they so you don't have a number you you to tell me you met with Johnson and they don't have a number they have five numbers okay what are they what are the numbers give give us the five numbers in fact give us the lowest one and the highest it really wasn't numbers as different numbers it was different financing options different financing options as to determine which way to finance this many different ways so you just financing you just you don't have no number that you're basing that on I don't understand it I believe you guys are are not to number but you're not disclosing it that's my position okay okay and I'll give you an example about the non-notification you have an opportunity every year to put out this tax notification every year every taxpayer gets it there is not one mention of the new Municipal complex on four page can you tell me Mr Mayor why on a four page document right here right here mail to my house it tells you how much the taxes are how to pay them and uh some Recycling and garage sale stuff and and storm pollution but not one not one word about the new complex can you tell me why Mr Mayor no we just we I we didn't think about it and you know it is what it is yeah okay so before they put out this four-page document any every year no one in this room none of you guys have input or uh say okay let me read it okay it's okay go ahead print it nothing no Monica handles all of that the department heads put it all together there are certain that are required by law to be put can you tell me your reason why you didn't put the new Municipal complex in there so that there are certain requirements that have to go out annually I don't want to hear about requirements and and other stuff why won't you notify the public excuse me first of all first of all let well you know I get frustrated because you don't want to give me any answers let me talk let me talk go ahead in November of 2022 we held a special meeting right here in this room to talk about the P3 project in which Johnson Controls was here and their Partners this room was packed right okay it was packed the day agree with it or disagree there was some excuse me excuse me we're not going to call out from the audience no no let me let let let me let me talk control let me talk okay there were some that were against it there were some that were they wanted to find out they wanted to find out you did you reveal numbers what that no we didn't have any numbers at that point in time you that's that you keep asking that we keep selling we don't High the numbers nobody say this I don't believe you you know what I'm you know you don't anything that we say you don't believe that's why that's my entitlement I'm a taxpayer that's fine I'm entitled to my opinion you're right I didn't say you were I didn't curse at you I didn't threaten you I just said I don't believe you st did I say do I have a right ask me there answer me did I say you weren't Mr Connors do I have a right to say that I don't believe the mayor yes okay all right now let's get back to you're saying how you notified the public and I want to ask ask this question and have each member answer it in their own words no they come to the chairman off okay it'll go to you but that's what I would like to have on the on the recital right here this is the pre uh Construction contract that I believe the mayor signed and I want to get a signed copy if I can uh a copy of what they agreed to without telling us so part e on recital it says where as onor about the 17th day of November Township determined that the project was in the best interest of the public and authorized representatives of Township to negotiate a proposed public private partnership agreement with Johnson Controls I believe that statement in itself is against the law that public private partnership requires transparency financially and proper notification so I want to ask my my my what I'm asking is that each committee person explain to us how you you determine how it was in the best interest of the public and whether or not you took in consideration the the amount of tax that's going to increase in order to do this so can you tell me in your own words how you determined that it was in the best interests of the public Mr Mayor well first of all as as you said it's a negotiation and we could walk away from it at any point in time but there's a penalty let mean no not when that was signed not when that was signed in 2022 we didn't sign the preconstruction until April of of 2023 now let me finish okay so we negotiated we can stop negot negotiations at any point in time that's all we're doing we're negotiating yeah but if you terminate it now you're going to owe Johnson $243,000 is that correct and your attorney and your your attorney whoever it was I guess Jerry of course I see Jerry's name he told you that that's a good thing to do to get to get you know what you know what I equated on just let me make one comment Mr it was our Law Firm it was what it was our our Law Firm that indicated to the governing body that it was a legal document that was legally enforceable and that they were permitted to do to to sign it now we don't compel the governing body to sign it we don't tell them that they shouldn't unless there was a provision in there that didn't comply with the law now if you were going to build a house you would go to an architect you would sign an architect and I would imagine he would make you pay for plans to be be drawn even if you decided not to proceed with building the house is that correct uh yeah I believe so Choice okay so so it's it's no different that document that they sign is a legal document they were entitled to sign okay let me tell you the difference Mr Connors the difference is when I hire a whoever to write up plans it's coming out of my pocket you guys are right are costing money that's coming out of our pockets they always do even tonight how many millions of dollars we spent 9.9 million $9.9 million almost every other week is spent by this governing body comes out of your pocket yeah the well you know when I when I when I hear about the money you're spending do is give legal guidance that's all I can do I don't make all right well you're saying that this document is legal correct that they signed in April correct and that it's got termination penalties at each stage that accumulates into millions of dollars is that correct that's correct and that's a good thing that they signed it I'm saying it's a good thing or a bad thing I'm just saying that is a legal document to be signed prices now if you came to me and you wanted to buy a Cadillac I wouldn't tell you as a lawyer that you shouldn't sign a lease agreement or the installment sale because you get a better deal on a Chevy that's your decision so the penalties in there is a decision that was made by the governing body based on what the cost would normally be soft costs for engineering and Architectural fees which I would say based on my knowledge and I have a broad sense of knowledge with regard to capital projects having been the executive director for the New Jersey Commission on Capital budgeting planning that is within the percentage of constru anticipated construction cost so it's within that Realm of the cost in fact it's less well you know what you're comparing public money with personal uh financing so to me it don't make sense to me I just can't believe I'm not an attorney but I've read a lot of legal documents in my lifetime I cannot believe and first of all Johnson wrote it you guys didn't write it I can't believe that an attorney would say go ahead you're now you don't know if you're going to do it but every time you back out and it gets to the next level you're going to pay them money any mortgage document you signed any installment sales contract that you signed any resil retail agreement that you signed is not written by the customer it's written by the individual that you're acquiring the the the the improvements or you're acquiring the asset from okay we can and we did make revisions to the agreement we did make revisions to it now I will say this you're entitled to your opinion that's right I am opinions could be vast you might think it's a bad my opinion reflects the majority of this Township it may be it may be okay don't okay okay that's the truth that's the bottom line all right and I'm saying you're entitled to that opinion okay but if you're questioning the legality of the doc I'm telling you I am questioning it okay because it was signed and there was a monetary penalty with public without public notification and financial transparency that's part of the PPP law then let me and I'm not here to give you legal advice I'm here to give the town legal advice but I can say generally if you feel that something has not been done legally there is a recourse for that and since you know since you know that there's a legal impediment in that contract I would suggest that perhaps you and I will be facing off in court okay you have the option to bring oh absolutely but it it it's really bothers me that I got to go through that when we elected you guys to represent our best interests and you're not g given a you're not reflecting the reality of the financial circumstance that most people are in today that has nothing to do with sure does it has nothing to do with the legal parameters of the document look you guys got a legal obligation and you have a moral obligation to do what you're supposed to do and you're not doing it so uh not you're not going to let each person tell us why it's a good idea to spend the money no okay I believe you got the answer that you don't agree with all right on this uh all also part of this agreement is a cover letter from a a lady named Jean Abbot and it's going to I guess you guys and it's to Veronica it says attached is the final turn of the document this incorporates the changes changes Jerry recommended with a few minor adjustments it is also updated the schedule of payments schedule of payments to show that they are commun communative to show that they go and add on it's not like okay you did this you don't have to pay to 243 you only got to pay to $773,000 this is clear that they put it right out in plain English that each thing is going to be an accumulating penalty so my question is why in God's name would the attorneys have the mayor signed this if you don't know if you're going to do it it just don't make sense so and what don't and what else don't make sense attorneys didn't have anybody do anything and let me add we we authorize hundreds of thousands of engineering projects a year um we do it all the time and and not and not all the time do we go through with some of those projects but you have to get a c you have to get the cost down from Architects and engineers in order to bid projects that's how it works so for example the railroad rightaway was engineered in its entirety in its entirety uh whenever we built that 15 or the portion and and we did not ultimately go through with all the plans on the railroad rway so we end up paying for engineering that we ultimately didn't use yet we do it all the time okay not only this Mr kenis tell me the last engineering project you were involved with here other than uh Municipal Building oh don't look at don't look at Veronica what is it well tell me what the last one was the Bamber Lake danam we just authorize what typically how it works is we authorize engineering I want to say like this year but then the project may not start for two years because it takes that long to get all the the lake bar took Lake barate light took from that eight years what what about the Third Lake parking lot that's closed up every summer I wasn't on the committee oh you weren't on the committee 2006 and that was mandated by the state to make we're mandated by the dams every damn that's been replaced so far has been mandated by the state and you we pay for it the taxpayers unun we pay for everything okay all right well I wish that when you guys spend a lot of money I I said this before that the girls talk too fast and no one has a statement to further explain and justify the money spent and because they 's none of that and everyone just votes yes it gives you guys more com let me finish they're ladies excuse they're ladies not girls they're ladies ladies thank you very much sir ladies thank you you know I do yeah absolutely okay next subject you signed you signed the preconstruction agreement in April yep with his penalties yes they're not penalties they're not if if we walked away toight you need yeah they're they're doing work you can't he's 100% right you don't you don't tell some ask somebody to build you a house without knowing what the plans are well then again we go back to non- notification non- Town Hall no Financial transparency it's all it is all public at our budget meetings we all every single thing we do is is voted on at whatever meeting is every when we did the engineering when did you notify the public you were signing that it's if it's on the anything on the agenda that wasn't on the agenda that you were signing this yes it was youe all done at I'll concede it was on the agenda be fair you were at the meeting and you actually spoke at that meeting in April okay you didn't even mention that now all of a sudden you think we're hiding it because you didn't see it look I did not see that document until October October I seen it I didn't see it in April no I didn't it was on the agenda in April now let me ask you this can't sign it without you sign you signed that agreement with Johnson to me it's kind of like a trap in the woods for a wild animal you guys put your foot in it now you're caught in it you got our money caught in a be bear trap right now that's what you got now my question is in April you sign away sign our rights away without telling us in direct violation of the public P private partnership law no it's not yes it is no it's not it's right I I I read it all the time you got requirements what do you tell them after the fact that you spent their money or you tell them ahead go ahead go ahead okay now why why if you already got all this commitment with Johnson would you then commission an engineer to do an addition here that cost the taxpayers either 34 or $35,000 and you're not even going to consider it we're talking about you're talking about the ren let me Steve you're talking about the renovation cost for this building and the police headquarters correct is that what you're talking about right here that's the engineering report correct that's $35,000 $355,000 and it came back at $34 million to renovate this building let me finish at the go ahead let finish go ahead and the police headquarters now the problem with that is that that doesn't take into comp fact that let's say we decided to renovate this building and the police headquarters we got to rent trailers for probably two and a half to three years at $100,000 a month for those trailers we got to hardwire them in we got to put bathrooms in there there we got to put a pump in there for the waste in the water we cost us another $10 million roughly to do all of that okay that that and that that's what has to happen and wa what we and that's why we did that just to determine if it was worthwhile to go forward with the renovation or to try the new complex that's what we TR did I and I said Steve I said this to I said this to your last meeting from the Jersey Shore online what's that bear with me I said it last meeting but there's a lot of people that weren't here last meeting from the Jersey Shore on line newspaper November 9th uh 2021 barnegate the Edwards School the Edwards the they the Edwards school they had a choice in barnegate they were getting quotes from the article between 21 and $25 million barnegate what did barnegate wind up doing they te tore the building down because they realized it was not money well spent to rehab old stuff and that is my opinion as well well a brick building has a has a life expectancy of 100 to 150 years this building I see nothing wrong with it okay I don't know what happened to that school addition that school was probably built in the 30s when was that school built probably probably in the 20s or the 30s this building was built in 1969 it's a brick building so let's take So and I've told you this before let's take let's use Barnett's numbers as a rehab for for this building for 20 to 25 million it would be something like that we got the quote 35 million or whatever it was we we're not getting a return on that money I'm a taxpayer just like you this is this is our this the Lacy Road and Route 9 corridors are our only rable properties this is the the the point of this is to expand the base so we can minimize the taxes for everybody else look the in addition in addition uh you know when we're you know we're not just spending your money it's our money too we all live here and so I you know uh I object to the fact that that we're going to spend $25 million on commercial property without collecting property taxes on it that's my opinion okay and you're you're a you're a builder too right I am okay I again Ask the mayor to form an advisory committee made up of committee members and taxpayers so we can go door Todo and look at this building to see why it's uh uh the problems with it and go to the other building or and the police station and review all the problems it has so we can make a decision and come back and tell the taxpayers the condition of the building can we form an advisory committee Mr Mayor we we hir Professional Engineers who do this for a living that are certified by the state of New let me finish certified by the state of New Jersey are you a certified engineer no I that's why I depend on Engineers to do this job are you a certified engineer yeah but I'm not certified no I am okay you wouldn't know you wouldn't know and there I look it isn't that complicated you guys you guys you guys you can laugh all you want you guys are the ones that came up with a 32,400 square foot Edition on this building and that's for a total of I think 48 people so do to match they told us last meeting 30 people here and 18 from the other building please don't speak attorney would I'll get to you I'll get to you sir I'll get to you get you're GNA get a chance okay all right so someone came up with this 32,400 square foot addition who came up with that whose idea was it the engineer the engineer said that they had to work off of your information okay so they that same engineering firm previously did what was called a feasibility study if we were to build a new building what would be the new space that you would need So based on input from every department head that had questionnaires to answer this is where they came up with the square footage of the building based on space that you need filing cabinet storage the number of employees per offices and of course what's called an ADA circulation element that you have to have around each workspace so you have it compliant with American with disabilities acts if you had anybody in your facility that's disabled whether you're a visitor or a worker and that justifies 32,400 yes because happens is because we're do we would be doing more than 50% improvements to our building now that's a go ahead the downstairs of these buildings where we have offices located in the police department and in the municipal become unusable for office space based on today's codes so now again the laws are crazy but that's what they are are all the other townships in compliance with that as long as you don't make more than 50% improvements you could stay the way you are well I still that that's a good subject matter for an advisory committee is to take the 32,400 square foot addition and figure out how it would work with 48 people to make sure they got enough room you know you can I just interrupt you for one second Mr Ro I'm not I'm not saying that you don't have a right to speak I just wish that you would take a minute and understand that these aren't all decisions that we make as you just heard M lay say is that we have to meet codes it's about codes it's not like we just wake up one day and say we want to build a building 33 33,000 Square fet we don't we don't just wake up one day and say that there are codes if we change anything we have to meet the new codes now not what was done 40 years ago or you don't have to do it you know what that or you don't have to do it and that's fine or you don't have to if you want me every time we have to make a decision to reach out to you I'll gladly do that so when I order a million dollar fir truck for our Township should I call you there you go there you go I'll take care of that I'll put that on my agenda of what we have to do from now on every time we have to do you put us in this position so that we can help make decisions for our town to grow properly to not go backwards we cannot live in a building that was built in 1969 I live in my house who was built in understanding what I'm saying the codes have changed as a Township it's that has nothing to do with us that has nothing to do with us excuse me excuse me excuse me excuse me I'm talking excuse me for what got the floor you have to wait your turn Okay Steve what I'm saying to you when I said about it's not meeting the codes is what I'm trying to say we don't if the police department alone cannot continue the the way they are cannot it's it's we're breaking laws if you want to use that expression I believe you are everything I read I mean I can make an intellectual determination terrible it says you do this this this and that before you spend money but you went and spent money first got your foot caught in a bear trap and now we're all screwed that's your op mayor can I yes hang on you wanted you wanted to hear from a couple of people I have I haven't spoken I respect you I told you you're you know as far as I know you're a veteran you've been here since' 62 that's longer than I've been alive I got respect for you I'm going to show you I'm going to try to convince you I'm going to try to tell you what uh where I'm coming from okay so historically about 22 years ago no one wanted there were a lot of people a lot of loud voices didn't want the rail trail now it's done people use it it's a back entrance for the church it's an evacuation route uh it alleviate if in case something ever did happen with the planet alleviates traffic on 9 and Lacy Road people couldn't imagine the town without it they said hell no to Home Depot to koh's to Aldi to Walmart and they got and they now you know it used to be in the old days my my colleague at the end of the podium over there said uh many years ago when we first ran together uh astutely and I have not forgotten it's uh deputy mayor uh kenis uh now they people don't have to go to Tom's River or Wall Township to buy bottles and formula nails and things like that they couldn't imagine not having Walmart Home Depot may not like some of those things but guess what they have become such a convenience that people don't even need to leave this town anymore so we talk about moving forward you heard Deputy Mayor talk about you know what I don't like Steve I don't like the fact that I mean I want our female officers over there to feel comfortable have places to you know take care of their business it's not big enough over there this we have we're splintered over here we have our community development people on Route 9 we have a barn at the corner of lacy Road in Route 9 that thank God we sold that Community Hall because every April we got to dump money into it we're talking about over the years anything you could imagine as as a person that you put into your house magnify that by an exponent of five that's what we put into that building this building it's good money after bed but the worst part you heard the mayor talk about TD Bank I think it was like 60 ,000 a year because that is a tax rable now there should be a business right here that we could get good money for because it's at the apron of Parkway access and egress Parkway exit 74 somebody would pay for this plot and then we would get money then if we got money from that in tax revenue I wouldn't have to come to you in your pocket and raise your taxes you'll never get nowhere near it man you're you're you're you're mixing Marbles and pennies with millions of dollars you have to look ahead I I like the statement you make that we don't have to go to Tom's River here to go to Walmart that serves the entire public you guys did promote it that it would save and not raise taxes our taxes have gone up every year since 97 according to your website has just gone up every single year now I wouldn't have to drive out of town whether this building stays or you build a new one to pay my taxes so you're talking about two different things this is to serve us this building that's what you got to justify not relate to what happened 20 years ago with the rail trail or anything we're talking about this building being uninhabitable and if it is built on top of a dump I don't think you'll be able to sell it because any reasonable buyer knows that once they touch the ground it's going to cost the millions of dollars and that's in the engineers report so anyways let me move on I got two other items one is the confidentiality Clause this is also built into the preconstruction agreement now in that recital when I when they said that they had our support it specifically said a public private partnership could start so that's when the law gets enacted when you reference it in here in this confidentiality report I'll read a little bit of it not to put you asleep but it's pretty important New Jersey open public records act not withstanding the forging project company Johnson and Township made disclos proprietary information to their Affiliates member institutions subcontractors vendors suppliers employees lenders investors Council accountants or advisors who have a need to know such information and have agreed to keep such proprietary information confidential so we got confidential information and the people we can tell have also got to keep it confidential from who the taxpayers this law has been on the books for five year five years five believe it or not not one municipality has bought into it so you got to figure Johnson's got a learn how to do it better let's get them we got to trap them now instead of being nice and saying hey can we build this whole new project for you and a non-solicit proposal which I find very suspicious non non-solicit what they're saying is no one here solicit Johnson to come up with this multi hundred million project that added a blue to Johnson said hey Lacy Township needs a new Municipal Building hey let's make a proposal up for him it it just stinks it's not the truth it's it is not the truth now getting back to that confidentiality I would actually like to ask the mayor if each Committee Member could tell us why it's so good that nothing about the project is disclosed to us and you even signed that you would that you would agree to that is that why is this why there's no number Mr Mayor it's to protect proprietary interests well what about our interest where do we come in we're the ones paying for it where does our Interest come in your interest come in because we cannot supersede the open public records act you're protected by the open public records act and that is you got to come up to the mic I'm asking to answer no you got to come up the bike you got to get it on the so you got to come up to the mic we got to get a record of it thank you he just said for just explain I'm trying to explain to one person at a time sir okay let let's just just for one minute if you have questions you want to ask if you have statements you want to make you come to the mic you make the statements you want to make you ask the questions you want to ask if everybody interrupts everybody you're not going to hear the answers to the sir sir sir sir I'm not gonna have it no no we're talking to every I'm talking to everybody okay I'm talk can we just be respectful I just don't understand it I really don't I'm talking to everyone who's here okay you're the only one that's talking at a turn so if you feel offended I apologize you're talking at a turn you have not been asked so elaborate what you're saying I'll elaborate when you get up to the mic go I'm sorry Mr bar I'm sorry they cut into your time go ahead okay um the committee's position is that if they somehow agree to go along with this which I know they already made their minds up they pretty much already told me that they are going to go for it even though they say they're not they're not sure or they don't know they don't have a number um and that you're going to do it without a referendum vote right Mr Mayor you're going to do this without any of us voting on this if you decide to spend 100 or 50 or you yourselves are going to do it without us voting well no not necessarily well without you voting yes that we vote whether you could do it and and how are you going to be able to get under the 2% law of the state of New Jersey I'll let you do this that does when you borrow money and bond money the 2% law doesn't come into play it doesn't say that so you could spend theoretically you could spend as much money as much money as long as you don't bond it no I'm not saying that I'm saying to bond money we could spend as much money as that we're allowed to by the financial professionals when they say how much indebtedness we're allowed to get into okay I'm not saying so with this you don't have to do that no the public private partnership it's it's it's it's borrowed it's borrowed money so no it's not within the capital law it's outside the cap law Steve Ste so you don't have to go by the law and you can spend all our money St just know one thing one thing is that if we decide and and we still got to send it up to the state for their approval with all the with all the numbers and they they will look at it and make a decision yay or nay if it comes back nay we got to move on it comes back G then we have to make a decision another step that you're completely wiping out that the state will look at this the financial State they will look at this they're asking for a ton of numbers and things like that and then we send it up to them they go over it I would imagine there' be a couple of conference calls or Zoom meetings with it to explain the numbers and then they'll make a decision and then when that decision comes back if it's no the Project's dead okay if it says yes then at that point in time we have to make a decision and that decision again you will it'll be in in a a in a meeting it'll be a line on resolution and which there will absolutely be permission for public comment on that one line on promise so so if you go to the uh Treasury Department and they shoot it down do you got to pay Johnson to 773 we're not point we're not at the 700,000 point no no we not there we're at the what are we at I you're not at it but no what he's saying is if we make application and we go to the next step yes yes wherever we're at at that point yes we're obligated to pay it in that predevelopment agreement and you and you also had to okay so you would have to pay three4 of a million dollars at that and you're taking that gamble well no we haven't done anything yet what that's what that's the whole thing what is that pre pre uh construction agreement then if you haven't done anything what is that it's got everything you said it's we you guys said that we want it you guys say that uh we're not going to tell anybody and you guys say that we're gonna get uh termination penalties left and right that is the engineering and the plan development phase of the project and if we walk away we have to pay the 200,000 we get the plans we get the engineering because we paid for it it's as simple as that now that means we could use it down the road if we if if we decide okay we're going to hold off on this for five or 10 years those plans belong to Lacy Township and the engineering report belongs to Lacy Township and we can use those down the road if we decide to go forward and we'll just pay for them so they go down the road if we decide to put the project down the road yes okay I I reviewed what this Township brings in annually the tax records on your websites only goes to 21 okay okay and it said it totally total collections was about 87,8 1,548 okay that's taxes right huh is that taxes or what what is that that's a it's from the tax account it says annual taxes or whatever collectively everything put together does it talk about fees okay tax the taxes tax tax tax okay so I still believe that you're still required to the 2% but you say you're not so 2% of 87 m815 48 2% of that comes down to 1,756 700 1,756 th30 okay that 87 can I finish can I finish can iish 87 million is not ours it's taxes collected a portion of it goes to the school 64 okay I understand that I understand that go to the but but doesn't a 2% sealing no okay all right well then I'm just doing this for a matter of record so everyone knows what it's costing okay so legally it appears that the township can raise our taxes for the whole town $1,756 th000 without our consent they don't have a number on the building but in the beginning they said we're going to spend at least 50 so sticking with the low number uh 30 years interest at uh at U 50 million comes to $119 million we're on the hook for that figure does not include insurance electric for the new building heating the building water for the building maintenance salaries of Johnson employees Plus benefits Township employees Plus benefits so that $119 million is a low number so when I divide 30 into 1119 million I come up with 3, 96600 66667 so that's what it would cost us on the low end on the low end that they're going to make us pay with without us having an opinion or a right to vote on it so legally they went over their 2% by 2,210 hundred, 63667 cents above and beyond what they can do because this is not a bonded project so why don't other towns do what you're doing just go through it where you can't vote on it but we're going to raise your taxes because we didn't do it this way no other town has bought into it please I'm asking you terminate the contract [Applause] tomorrow than you your your glasses Steve Steve glasses glasses right there anybody else from the public this this lady back here hi my name is Donna from forkit River last name please Neil thank you uh good evening everybody so I I hear all this I'm I'm a little dismayed there's so much going on in this town we have this whole municipal building project we have the maxim Road project we have the windmill turbines going on no they're over they're done gone I I know but there was just an article in the paper that uh our wonderful Governor wants to you know push this further correct correct but that's going to be down the road years oh my God yeah so I'm just saying please don't interrupt now you'll have your chance you real if I wait I'm going to forget all that I'll give you a pad sir I'll give you a pad in my pen you can write it down so you don't forget no you come up here so like I said you know I said the last time I was up here uh I've only lived here for six years and I'm a senior citizen and I think I speak for a lot of the senior citizens in town this is a very scary time for all of us right now not just for the seniors but for everybody we don't know what's going on in the world with a World War we are hitting in INF uh inflation like we can't believe we don't even know if the stock market's going to crash I've said it before and I'll say it again this is not the time to even contemplate a project like this it's not even the time put it to the side let's let's let's just wait and see how things evolve um I'm no for this project I've said it before and we are getting out there and notifying people of what's this project is about because they really don't know I pick up my granddaughter every day from school in lazy and I ask parents they don't know what the heck I'm talking about I'm like you know I know you're busy with school sports and this and that but you've got to really pay attention to what's happening in the town I'm I asked them could you afford to pay more in taxes they're like are you kidding me people can't even come here to rent anymore we're turning more section 8s over than than than ever before because people can't afford to rent here we've got the affordable housing in there already and now we're we're planning on this Maxim Road thing which you can't there's no way those poor people are going to come out of Maxim Road and make a left-hand turn on Lacy Road it's going to be a death trap so I urge you to reconsider this project stop it I I AG agree and I'd like to just show a a hand uh show a hand how many people are against this project how many people are for the project nobody so we're just trying to get our point across that nobody wants this and we will get more and more people to the point where it's packed and you will begin getting all our all our emails because we're against it so thank you for your time thank Merry Christmas to you are you coming down to speak are you coming down to speak sir okay come on down say your name Roger Lang um just a question I get confused with information sure so I'm sure you guys know in 30 years after we pay off this mortgage or whatever it is the these payments 100 million whatever who owns the new company complex LA to okay so it transfers to us and we the ownership yes okay thanks for clearing it up thank you anybody else I'll get these I'll get these this lady right here hi my name is Terry kinsky uh forkin River um you know I wanted to reiterate what the woman said I am also a senior citizen but I'm concerned because people are struggling really struggling I moved here six years ago and my taxes have just about doubled and I'm in a senior community you know whether you're a young family trying to make ends meet or people trying to afford a home and I'm hearing what the rents are so you know like this is really not the time to be in such bad inflationary times to do something like that I taught in Tom's River for 10 years and I worked in the oldest school it was 15 years old okay they're not knocking it down it's a brick building they are making renovation but they're making due when we have to repair our homes now we're doing fix it and this and that but we're not knocking our houses down I worked in a crowded room I had no air conditioning but I did it because I had to so I just want you to think about that another thing many people that I know have expressed to me that they never heard about this and I know you had an announcement in 2022 an open meeting most people are busy working they don't go wasn't in the paper she found out about it on the Lacy patch just recently where's the where's the Flyers where's the announcements there's no information in the papers or anything about it so the majority of the people really don't know about it another thing is yeah we like the development believe me I like the convenience a Home Depot and all that stuff but I wish you would build some quality restaurants we're sick of I'm telling you if we get one more fast food it makes rout n look like a junk carrier we want to have a little bit of quality in this town okay Burger King and Popeyes and and and Wendy's you know come on let's have some good stuff how about a Panera Bread you know at least who's going to open it people come with money control we don't we don't determine who you what are you going to do with that uh where the old uh Community Center was there on the corner what's that going to be that was sold or it's in the process it's under contract to be sold the developer um Mr de George is um looking to um contract with somebody to build something on that site but until he makes application to the planning board I am not sure what he's putting because you know like that's you come down Lacy Road there it is so do we want to see another fast food restaurant there miss kinsky there's nothing we could do if somebody wants to come in and put fast food restaurant and it meets the code when people say that about our Corridor I say go look at other corridors to the north of us and to the south of us I didn't say is the Taj Mahal compared to other towns I stand by that statement but just saying is just just be aware that people need to be informed okay thank you anybody else from the public come on my name is Karen Hall I've lived in for River 56 years well whatever it's the same thing you tax me either way my taxes I've lived there all of a sudden 5 years ago they decided to make a commercial property so my taxes went up to $144,000 a year there's the business on there was an auto body shop had been there for how many years 40 50 years then all of a sudden they decide oh we should make the whole block commercial so one place did become a real place but all the the rest of us we're just homes and we're paying for our taxes it's bull earning you should not have the right to spend this kind of money without us voting whether you can or you can't it's not fair United States and they say well well you know it's old building I have a brick house it's old but I update it I put new windows in put new doors in it's like a brand new house MH you could do obviously you haven't done anything around here you can say it look at the chairs like are you kidding me you must be angry at something I said you're looking only at me but that's okay listen I got I'm good I'm good this political B it really is I like politics even less than you do I can assure you thank you for your comments anybody else you're the closer we get we get riched out here you can close in you don't you don't yell at us Barry good evening Lacy citizens okay first I want to thank Senator Conor for his service to our community he's a great gentleman very kind man professional the kind of people I like to deal with thank you for your service to our town and to the state okay so um couple things all right so a question and this is to Veronica okay so if we were to do this Johnson Controls project which is a lease purchase correct I wouldn't say it's a leas purchase that they are the funding partner so we will be paying them just like we would pay a mortgage company okay so they're actually will be a bond No there wouldn't be a bond okay so then how would you get around that in the as far as the debt serviceing go doesn't it have to be it fall no it doesn't have to be a bond to do that but it does fall into debt service it does so that means you could do $500 million if you wanted to I don't believe that I don't believe we we can the financial fin all right all right okay so that that answers the question um also there were talks about comments made tonight about doing things to this building so if you do less than 50% then you can do a lot of work on this building it can just be 49% correct I'd have to ask an engineer I'm not an engineer isn't that what you just said tonight they said that that for 8 to bring what if you do a certain amount of work you have to bring it up to current code so and that that's usually it's the 50% Mark you do that okay so what if you came up with like a fiveyear plan which is what I recommended a couple meetings ago that would be up to the governing body yeah a fiveyear plan of doing things over five years and working on things immediately that need to be done like replacing windows or working on the roof or you know changing offices or doing that kind of thing I mean that seems like it would be a more logical and you probably would get a lot more support from our community than you have right now which is kind of zero so um and I think I said this two years ago when I spoke here and I said when um I first talked about this it was two years ago November 202 yeah no it was two years ago November 2022 right no no no no I came two years ago last year is when we had Johnson Controls I came the year before before anything I knew about this right I said then that if you moved forward with this that we would have you know a lot of division in the town and you can see it's building and it's it's just continuing and um you know and it will continue because the people really well you've admitted this some of you have admitted this that you've handled this all wrong already and you know what it's a shame because you're elected to do things correctly not incorrectly but we're not perfect no you're not but we don't want to hear that from our politicians you're the elected leader so take responsibility we took responsibility right well and this is why you're having opposition because you didn't handle it correctly and that's all due with due respect um you know uh sorry to say that a lot of people in the community and this was quite obvious from the town hall that we had on Monday night the feeling is is that uh individuals do not feel like the government is in touch with uh well they feel like the government is out of touch with the citizens that it represents and that's when you have that disconnect it's really a terrible thing again I brought this up with the group that I have a vision to change this to a more democratic type of a government where this wouldn't be happening where if we had the type of vision of a government that I predict we can have and put Place each each section of our town would have a delegate who would represent our area of the town and you that person would be it would be their job to be discussing with their constituents in their area the things that are happening in the town and getting feedback exactly how they're feeling about this I mean it is a little bit shocking and appalling that five of you are making up the decision that you this is in the town's best interest when it's in your best interest and basically this is the question I have I want to know what's in it for you really sad that you say that to be very honest with you that's very sad to say to speak that way of us well let me explain something to you I've been involved in politics since I've been 13 years old I ran a state agency in probably the second most corrupt state New Jersey being the first I understand and have seen deals that have been done one hand washes the other given take I'm not stupid I've been around sad that you're that jaded Jed oh well that's what happens when you've been exposed on a much larger level than here okay and this is the reality exposed my my uncle was the mayor of the town that I lived in was Northburg in Hudson County one of the biggest you know corrupt areas in the state so are you shocked by my statement no I'm not shocked by I'm a ped by it because to me that's all you are focusing on is that somehow or another the one common was we lining our pockets I look check us out check us out just check us out I I don't know what I you know what let me ask you something let me just ask this if I was to tell you that we could build the building without raising the taxes would we be allowed to ra actually if you want to know that's what I was going to suggest if you are so passionate about this why don't you try fundraising in fact I have a better idea oh wait wait no we can create a foundation please interrupt you for a second yes so just so that you know I when was I think it was last in the springtime of last year the YMCA contacted us we did not contact them about potential of the indoor Recreation Center okay we've had several meetings with them over that time they want to come in and partner with us whether we build it and they leas it from us or we build it and they run it the whole bit so we're we're we're talking about that okay all right so we are trying to fund raise we have been working very hard on fundraising the fact that the wind energy thing which I saw on you were happy about went down I saw that on Facebook on you okay that cost this Township a lot of money I'm sure it did okay a lot of money so again we're trying to do we want to make this Revenue neutral that's the objective and that's why we are taking our time making sure that it's the least impact because we're all taxpayers here every one of us so we don't want to see our taxes double and we have said from the beginning from the very beginning of this before it was even public if the numbers don't work we won't do it that's been the Mantra since day one okay that's that's fine but uh to me it's like what are the numbers don't work we won't do it no but what are the numbers that don't work that's that's that's what we wait that's working with Johnson Controls negotiating with them trying to get to that point seeing what the YMCA wants to do and other people we plan on talking to about helping us out right if if they don't work we won't do the project we have said that from day one okay well I mean I'm hoping that that's what the way things will work out personally because I don't really want any of these people's taxes to have to go up they're already going up too high I don't want their taxes to go up anyhow right anyway we done to right all okay so so that that's a good point so uh at the last meeting you weren't here but I was speaking to you and I asked you about a code of conduct that I would like the township committee to basically um Embrace and put forward and the reason why I say this is this um this is the way I view it it's like when this is the Public's and to be able to speak when we come up here okay and uh if the person is doing an address like I was and being interrupted by a rude member of this body who has done this to many people in the past um and so to stop that behavior when someone is addressing and then if one of you want to add a comment you professionally ask the person who was speaking um can I add to that if if the person who's doing the address from the public says no because it's interrupting their train of thought or whatever then you can do that after they are done I mean this basically it's to allow unfortunately this has happened on a number of occasions and um it m you wonder why a lot of people don't come up here and speak you wonder why people don't come to the meetings look I listen to people at our town hall talk about what happened at this last meeting and um you know when I was up here trying to speak and make an address about something that I think needs to be be done I mean it it's out of control and wait excuse me Mr kenis is acting as the mayor it's his job to conduct the meeting now aren't we following Robert's Rules of law of of uh Robert's Rules we can let we can let Mr Conor answer that question no obviously well to follow Robert's Rules of Order you would have to actually adopt Robert's Rules right and there are many aspects of Robert's Rules of Order that aren't really applicable to what we do as a governing body right principally U regardless of whether we did adop Robert rules were governed specifically by the statute so the statute would always always supersede right any rules such as the open public meetings act right and so we can set parameters for public discussion right and I think it's reasonable to do so because it is a two-way street okay members of the public have to be respectful to the individuals that sit at the day and they have to be respectful for people that are at the microphone right certain principles that I believe are very important that I tried to convey earlier is that when people are speaking the individuals in the audience should remain quiet should not burst out and speak out of turn until they're recognized individuals in Thea should not speak until they're recognized by the chair all questions and comments should always be through the chair that would be any Robert's Rules right no matter how you read it and that's the way it should be uh conducted so individuals have the right to express their opinion as forcefully as it might be as distasteful as it might be uh to individuals receiving it sometimes it's not easy to accept criticism um you know that's just the way it is it's human nature but when a question is asked from someone where you're standing now uh and you're very respectful um you should be the you're the model of what people should follow when they get up here is that when a question is asked you give an opportunity to for the individual to address it and then through the chair um and not cut that individual so nobody should be cut off I mean this is everybody's town and if we talk out a term we're not going to hear the answers which then only leads me to believe that in some cases people aren't interested in an answer to the question that's not why any of us should be here so you're right there should be some parameters uh and I think that it would be beneficial to announce them at the beginning of the meeting just as we announced the read the open public act statement when it comes time to U public participation set certain guide just to reinforce for anybody who knew that's coming here and that we all know and understand what our respective roles should be that's a wonderful idea Mr bnck respectfully I'm sorry can I just because you're you're obviously referring to me so so let me just give you some insight on why I do what I do and it kind of It kind of goes to you made accusations about this whole committee that we must be on the take or we must be corrupt um I'm I'm give me give me an opportunity so I've been up here for I I'll be going on my 18th year and I've watched many people including yourself come come before this committee and when someone makes an inaccurate statement I'm not going to call it a lie a misstatement misstates the facts I try to or I feel compelled to to straighten out as best I can so let's go back to the last time you were here you came up and and you you made a point because I had left the room because an individual had said something and and where I interrupted you was when I believe you mistakenly deliberately left out a very important aspect where you didn't know what what that individual said so let me reiterate what that individual said I'm not wait wait before you go on see youon you see you're not let let me finish I said at the meeting I didn't care what she said you didn't care so okay so you didn't care you're doing exactly what you did the last time you're not going to let me finish as usual it's this is my time to speak I'm respectfully asking I be recognized Mr DCL is recognized I'm recognized okay most of the Town Council is made up of self-serving back patting smug morons who think they know what they are talking about there are a couple of female members who care the men are idiots who think being up there will make their man Parts bigger now mi now Mr bidik do you think that is acceptable to say about this esteem body do you think to first of all I didn't write that yes or no answer no it isn't because but you we have a thing in America wait excuse me excuse me we have a thing called freedom of speech I don't have to condone somebody's freedom of speech but they have the right to say what they want to say that is not the point the point is is that a taxpayer who pays your salary again you have with the salary okay yes but you are being paid who pays your salary who you were elected by you don't turn your back on them and walk out on them that is so disrespectful okay hold on let me let me let me interject you um that went out on the internet Mr D called me about it and we talked about it on the phone he came to the meeting that night two meetings ago and told me he was going to walk out in a form of protest which is fine we have that right too we don't surrender our rights because we sit up here we had the same right his walking out was a form of protest doesn't matter whether we approved of it or didn't approve of it the rest of us up here he has that right and that's what it was about I I find what was what was said about us to be vile and and I didn't like it okay he decided to walk out in a form of protest and not listen to it it happens every day in in in communities throughout the country okay so if you were working in business and someone you were having a meeting and you just decided to walk out on your boss which is the people um and wait no no let me let me just finish and you were decide to walk out on the people who the who employ you okay because you don't want to hear what they have to say you don't like them I'm just using this as an example okay um you would be fired not necessar well yes if you worked for me you would be so but I've sat in meetings where people have walked out because they have disagreed with the president of the companies it happens all the time CFOs and presidents are notoriously don't get along right I'm sure that they do but um I'm just using this as an example I I I see it as problematic okay and um and so again it's just it sets a bad precedent that you're not listening you don't care what the public thinks and it just it just rolls over again with what I've been saying before that what we have isn't working for We the People okay so I'm going to move on to something else I hope that you do before before you move on I did the next day called Veronica and had her research oh good okay both ours and the states okay 95% of it am I right about that 95% I don't know what you're going to say about the I can't say yes say yes had to deal with graft that's what it was handling money oh code of ethics or Yeah the code of ethics but what about a code of conduct right we didn't look at that and that's where um Mr Conor looked at the Robert rules right we came from so we have you asked yeah know I appreciate I know that you probably would because you wouldn't know that I wasn't going to probably let up on it so I mean so I appreciate Veronica you doing that we we got you down we got you down so Mr kenis I just wanted to remind you this you are a a real estate person and property developer but when you come into this building your interests no longer matter you're representing the people who elected you so when you talk a lot I hear you talk about you know you're wearing your your developer cap but you're not when you're in here you're representing me and all these other people who uh are paying your salary also not to represent your interests but to represent our interests just just be clear about that that's and I just want to remind you that I pay taxes in this town as well you do but you also are representing 30,000 people right and also because of his experience as a developer and dealing with this stuff we rely on him so it it it helps us with that way too so yes his personal opinion does matter on because he's an we consider him to be an expert on it I know but what if someone has their own agenda I would tell you this I mean I don't try to spend money with Mr Kennis it's not an easy thing ask the toughest of them all oh good good good we we like to hear that in addition to that the you know and know you've been sort of picking on our form of government um I think this is the best form of government in uh uh because we there's none of us can you know just run the agenda you could sit there and say I'm you know I'm going to run like I want the building and I want to do this there's four other people they have their all all vote we're all 25% vote including the mayor there's no extra vote as the mayor so if they don't want to do something and I do and it's four to one against me well then we're not doing it works that I understand that but you know what the the thing that I find very distasteful on the local level is the r and the D well that's what I want to get rid of even though you have a nonar and Manchester is perfect example of that they're still R&S you can be still a republican but you're not running as a republican because you don't have a party that's you know you understand what I'm saying I know but it still is Republican or go look at Tom's River and they have the Ws and that's an absolute disaster yeah but it wouldn't be the way we're looking at it and Bigg more government is not always better can you give me examp think that so you're going to represent your neck of the woods I'm going to represent my neck of the woods so now we're going to play against each other cuz I want let's say a fire truck and you don't so now we're going to bargain just like Trenton does to get a bill passed or something like that and you're going to swap off deals it's not always going to be better to be bigger government just one question called democracy can you just give me an example of what mun what municipality you would like to mirror uh well there are I think what is it 82 or 83 uh townships or governments in this town that don't have any yes okay so what mean I know in Ocean County there's have you looked at any Ocean County that are that are nonpartisan that we you would mirror I mean I don't want to mirror anybody else so you want to create a whole new government we're looking at the fauler act and we're looking at the way that we can tailor it what would be best for our community and then the people will actually get the chance to vote on it because it is it's their town you see so you don't have a mirror or an example I don't have a mirror because we're still working on all all new well no I have some ideas like a mayor that will be elected who will have no vote no vote they will run the meetings they will pick the Committees but the entire that kind I understand is but I'm I'm asking you you have you looked at other municipalities that work a model that works what municipality work Tom's River as one okay I'm not saying that it works it's not it's it's partisan not bipartisan we're looking we're looking at what different communities are doing but the issue is we're looking at what's best for Lacy okay okay so it's probably going to be a hybrid of several different okay but the point is is that what we see is nine legis SL slat your approval if you're not going to follow one of the ones no no no it will be it will be but they give you like there's 13 different so you can you have a quite a few ability to to do different things but the issue at hand is this this whole Municipal complex that you want to do has it really has opened up the eye that you know you really don't know what the people are feeling and you're making these decisions and when I was thinking about this I'm like you know for all of us it would be great to have a government that in our local area because we have lost control throughout the country we have government in Washington and in Trenton that's making decisions that you we have no control over so can we at least have one place where we can have control and actually I do Envision and I am a globalist so I do look at things on a bigger picture I see just things being actually more conducive to where people feel like they have have a voice where we are feeling like we don't have a voice you still have a voice and no matter if you have five governing body members sitting up here or seven or nine it it's still going to be the same with those seven or nine so you have your choice to no no no you know why because all of these people are elected by 30,000 people okay I see what you're saying so in our district we'll be able to have the person who lives in our area is dealing with our issues that we can go to and talk to and it will be their job to actually reach out to the residents in their area like the forkid River Beach thing that I was talking like you know we're having right now this is the perfect example of where this could work very very well and you know look committee woman Juliana has reached out in that area she has but she doesn't have the ultimate authority to be representing see the way I look at this no no that's where that's where that's where you're going she lives in that area we would depend on her to to talk about what her neighbors are saying right right okay and we would listen to them right and that's what we do here in my vision she would have the authority now just listen to this where she would do all the negotiating with the people that live over there have the meetings on her own not all of you having to do it she would meet with them discuss and come up with a consensus from the people that live there and then she would come back that representative to the whole committee and then you would vote on whatever they decide be voted down no so we voted down V or or a deal is made Mr or a deal is made I've seen the way those government works and a deal is made give this four of you could make a decision and you don't live over there that because you just don't care it's I'm just saying it's not really of importance Mr B you understand what I'm saying I know what you're saying but I just want to say it's not that they don't care um well you know I just don't want to restate that because it's not that they don't care it's just that we take a value of what needs to get taken care of it's just like at the the last meeting someone did say that Bamber is neglected well we don't neglect Bamber as soon as we get a phone call especially like my husband he was very active in Bamber he he he was up there they needed the dam fixed he got on them he got on these guys and said we need D yeah I actually take exception to that I don't live I don't live in Beach Boulevard but we we've did redid Bayfront Park yep um I don't live in Bamber but we redid the playground we did a lot in B we really do I mean I I don't think anybody I I guess we so angry at us they're so angry at us that they're not taking the time to see all the good stuff that is done in this town god well but you see don't see the good stuff if we had a representative who lived out there who was train was actually reaching out to the people and explaining to them all these things it would also help with that kind of anger that you're talking about the what I Vision it would be a much easier working ability for everybody in the long r i completely disagree I mean I know you great you're going to get your mayor if I may wait let me I we've have spent let's deal with B we spent millions of dollars over the last four or five years millions millions of dollars reg playground permission either and we're out there I'm we talk to them I'm out there two or three times a month out there I can tell you this I'm on the web with them with their Bamber alert and I can see that stuff I see a couple of people from bber all the time and I ask you what do you guys need what do you want how can we help you always always and I think everybody else and sees different people around the town that mean not their neighbors but they know and we we get these questions all the time how can we help you and we do that all the time so I think if you're going to have these wars you're opening up a Pandora's Box because it's going to be nothing but horse trading that's what it's going to be that's the worst kind of government that's the worst kind of govern how are you going to convince the Bamber person to give a flying Hoot about a bulkhead in forkid River Beach right when they might not ever even go there I'll tell you how those two were going to have to sit in horse trade and now you're getting into a gray area that I don't want any problem I don't I don't do that you say you don't like Washington you say you don't like tra Washington is nothing but Wards Congressman in certain districts you I always said you think yes but there are lobbyists there that control our government let me say you think that Iowa district 3 Representatives gives a damn about what happens in New Jersey it's an entirely different situation mayor why is that no it's not it is there are lobbyists that control Trenton and they control Washington DC and some of them are foreign and some of them are domestic we all know how it works we don't have that here in our local area it's a little bit different and you know what I don't mind the idea of give and take like if we have to work through different things between each other to get things done because that's how you build community really it really is if you have to work you know if everything is so simple sometimes because you're all like on the same playing field for whatever your you know your ideas are you don't appreciate things as much and I'm sure the senator knows from all of his years in government I mean he's had a lot of experience so he he would understand so I just think that this is something that I think will fly and I think a lot of people will support it because everybody that we're talking to feels like our government isn't paying attention to us and I want to change that and I think it's a noble cause and anyway everyone Merry Christmas I'm going to say Merry Christmas because Merry Christmas Merry Christmas to everyone and a happy New Year well you know and uh stay healthy and you know enjoy your family which is really the important thing family okay thank you again for the time and the opportunity appreciate thank you sir all right anybody else before anybody else before I bring the clothes over Barry come on down come on down Barry who's who's speaking is it are you gonna you do you want to speak sir I just some question come you got to come up come just ask some at the end sure not a problem not a problem not a problem not a problem sir do you want to say that you had some questions just your name not your address okay Steve yeah I think I did that last time Steve post uh forkid River so um I'm up here because I'm like a few things originally like we spoke about the building being refurbished and then it was decided an engineering company come in for $ 34 $35,000 engineering report right so was like an evaluation I guess on a condition in the building correct and what it would take for the repairs but not for the renov for not for uh the renovation of the building if needed redesign or anything like that that's just the report that was done was done for an addition and bringing this building up to code and bringing it up to code okay so and the police department included in that and the police department included and bringing the police department over or separately into no no um we would try to merge them in the back over here but I don't know if it's possible because I don't think you can do that with the no you can't you can't no you can trust me there are plenty of municipal buildings that have police departments in them yes uh Stafford being one and and barnegate is going to be another one but we were going to merge them but we have some grading issues here in the back so we might not be able to merge them we might just have to be able to put additions onto both buildings okay all right so what I'm not understanding though is how come it was decided to go from doing that to a rable pro piece of property um you have have like you're you're to to see this as a rable piece of property you're really in hopes on selling it in the near future what do you do if it doesn't sell that's you know that's one thing so it's it's a it's kind of like it's it's a hopeful feeling and then the other thing is like if if you brought the police station over to this building if you have the property for it in the back that would be could become a ratable piece of property now there's at least you're gaining one of the two for for ratables there's no and this building is a brick building it's an old building but there are a lot of brick buildings that we know throughout the US they're being refurbished and they're being modernized that look beautiful and I just don't understand why we won't we just automatically instead of instead of looking at this building that way and knowing that it's a centerpiece is right on the main road it would look great why we went right into the rable category over here and then I'm understanding that the the addition would be how many square feet additional square feet well it would bring us if you were to do it would bring us a total of 44,000 square feet for the whole entire 44,000 square feet now and how many employees would the whole building between the police and you're talking close a little bit over 100 employees including 100 employees yes wow that's that's a lot because I know bar get they're they've been working out of trailers for years the police department it's so bad that they have holes in the floor yes and they're fling through the holes I've been there I I've done that's a disaster dis the financials on that are disaster so they went from 14,000 square feet to 23,000 Square ft they have 53 police officers they have what do they have they have 10 Municipal Employees they have eight building department employees so there's somewhere where around I guess like 70 72,000 employees total for barn again and they have a big 72 you said 72,000 72,000 no 72 employees I'm sorry yeah 72 employees so I mean that's like 30 or 28 employees less than what well when I talk about 100 employee yeah it's 100 employees because you're we're over 50 in the police department yeah and and then but you don't have over 15 Police Department right we're almost there really how many I heard like when you talk the CL clerical the crossing guards the specials the dispatchers the police officers you're over 50 people there but they don't all need officers they don't all need officers in the in the building they're all well the officers don't you're 100% the offers nor did the crossing guards and people like that correct you're correct with that so what I'm not understanding is how how that number with the square footage came up and again I explained that ear I explained that earlier so again you have to come up to standards and there's something that's called a circulation element so you've got to have so much space I know about them in construction I actually was on The Barn Barn project okay so so there's a circulation element calculation that is included in all of that that gives you that square footage because you all need space and Co now requires to have this that and everything else so that's and again I'm not happy with that circulation element I wish I could bring that that percentage down but that's what what the code says to do no and then the record storage that you have because there are still records while they can all be scammed there are still records that have to be kept in perpetuity in paper right that's right yeah but you can do like barnegate did a basement they did a full basement for we're not we're not we have pl we have thoughts to do a basement but but my point is is that there's so much that you can do with this piece of property right now barnegate their budget originally was say $133 million 13 Maybe 14 million correct where they end up they around 17 total in the end it looks like 17 maybe 18 tops 18 million dollars when we're looking at like 50 50 at The Low End plus now I know that you guys are really like the idea like with um the YMCA I thought you know that you brought you're bringing them in as a partner I thought I think is a great idea well we're going to see what kind of partner they want to be but you're not like you're not explaining to the people really what your intentions are in full like this is the first time I personally heard about the YMC joint venture thing no you're you're you're you're absolutely right because the YMCA wanted to be sure and we wanted to build that relationship with them before they put their name to this project you can understand that because if they walk away for they don't want to be part of it we need to make sure they were a good partner for us and that and we were a good partner for them so we had to build that relationship up we've been in talks with them I me ver we Veronica took a trip up there I used to be a member of the YMC so I knew what it was about you know they're they're not going to put their name to something and unless unless they feel it's a good project we had to explained the project to them they had to go back and think about it and we and we answered questions going back and forth and that's when they said okay let's go forward and we we're static about it we think it's a great idea yeah I I I think it's a good idea but like I like I said like I just think that like I don't know how many Square fet this other billing is going to be I don't know if it's going to be comparable to your evaluation of the addition on this well wait there's two less square footage probably sare footage there's two building we're talking about the indoor Rec Center plus then the town hall Police Department uh Community Development all Under One Roof right so it's two separate buildings that we're looking to build yeah I like and this the uh you know when you brought Johnson Controls in here for the meeting right nobody had and nobody here I don't think they had any idea why Johnson's controls why they're even here and I don't think Johnson Controls really knew what they were up against because if everything is so is proprietary which I don't even know what would be proprietary with Johnson Controls what questions would we be asking them at that point what you know that wouldn't be proprietary like why why any of our questions would fall under a pro propr AR subject where they were here like what like I said what would we possibly be asking them at that point I felt like I really felt like when they're here they're like well Johnson's is here these are the people we're dealing with and I mean that meeting happened in November of 2022 okay we did not sign the contract for preconstruction I want to say April of 2023 so any of those questions there's no there was no proprietary at that point in time it was just discussions at that point in time but what what did the committee what kind of questions did you expect to even come out we just want to introduce Johnson Controls go over their background the professionalism that they they bring to the table I I just think that the communication between the committee and the public is really not there honestly I mean because if if I'm going to go in front of somebody I'm going to present something and want them to buy into it I'm a Salesman right you I mean whether it's good or bad I mean I'm not judging that this is a good thing or a bad thing right now I still have a lot to think about but I just know that if I'm going to sell something I'm going to put everything on a table and I'm going to be honest with them not saying that you're not but I'm going to give as much many facts as I possibly can if I have to put do a PowerPoint on a screen and show everybody in here I would do that and I would update it if I I remember correctly I remember correctly they did take questions from the public both sides the Johnson kols um and the other two companies I was here for that meeting there were very few questions asked I I actually stepped up and I was like what am I what are they here what am I going to ask them the only thing I could possibly say during that meeting are long lead times because back then it was like the tail end of like the real Co and we had long lead times on the you would know and it was like I mean you're waiting for like a year year and a half for something to arrive and that was like a big concern and that's that's one of the great things about the P3 program you weren't here for like about two meetings ago maybe three meetings ago excuse me um I I stepped up and I said there is no doubt that we went about this completely back I I put I was here when you said and and and we did I'm not going to say we didn't that doesn't mean that we did something wrong what I mean what I'm saying did something wrong what I mean with that what the comments about people thinking we're it we're getting something out of this no we stepped into it thought we could get it going thought we'd have some people interested you know that type of thing once we started mentioning a recreation and all this kind of stuff and all people care about this is truly all they care about right now is their taxes and what it's going to and I understand it I'm not I'm I'm a taxpayer here too and I live on the water so I pay a very big amount of money I'm not saying that that's not a priority what I'm saying is that is nobody's coming to us and saying tell me about the building they just blocking us this is just they're just blocking us but that's your job no no you're your job is but but I stepped up here last time I stepped up here was several months ago okay and at that point I had said the same thing I'm saying now and it seems like you've gotten no further no because because I'm gonna tell you let me just go over one thing we we met with them right and they came in and they showed us something and it was the price was not anywhere where we wanted to be so we sent it back to them and said let's see if we can do some make some changes here do this we're not going to keep bringing it to the public until we have what we see as as a possibility okay we're not going to just show you this now oh no we're gonna change that bring it back no we're gonna wait till they come back to us now let me interrupt myself here and stay to you after the first of the year our plan is we've had quite discussions on this that our plan is that we are going to start setting up a you're going to see a picture of what we're looking at once they get the stuff to us okay we are going to start setting up that we're going to start having little meetings whether it be with the Italian American Club feasant run seab Breeze we're going to start putting ourselves out there to give the information properly not the prices that people are saying in other meetings we're going to give them the proper information at that point we have we have not said this is what we're doing and you got no decision to be made well put I I would suggest this and then we'll know if we have a dance partner in the YMCA put together a narrative right put together a narrative for the public it's coming together that's what we're doing but it doesn't have to be real technical keep it simple that's what we're doing and you put together an NE you distribute it amongst the whole town and and it's an open form you can explain things to them what we're going to but what you're doing is you're putting you're waiting until you get a full presentation by that time this crowd is going to get bigger and it's not going to help you it's not going to help you and and also I mean I'm not I'm not going to put out a building that looks that looks this way right now and that's not what we're going to do for rendering or anything you're just putting out to the public your intentions that's all and then you're wor and then you know you're saying about the timeline with the state and then you don't know when do you have children can I ask you a question do you have children yes I do okay do you make an investment in your children uh where you excuse me Mr barley can you please not make comments from the audience do you have children yes I do okay and do you make an investment in the future for those children yes I do yes well this is like a child to us okay our town is a child to us we want to make sure it's ready for our next Generation okay when we're done when most of us will be done within the next 10 years hopefully we can still be here but if not that's People's Choice okay but I'm saying so in 10 years from now when we're off of here and there's another generation stepping up and doing job okay we want to hope that things are in place for them that we didn't leave it a mess for them I understand that completely okay I understand that completely and that's why I was saying originally that a renovation on this building with an addition if you want to you in the back area where you're planning on on on putting the municipal building if you come into funds later you can build a building back there Rec Center next to the park and with the joint venture with the YMCA when the funds are better the interest rates look like they're just starting to come down now right who knows where it's going to go after the election we don't know but that could be that could be phase two let's say you know we to do the indoor rec center before we would do anything else so that we can start bringing Revenue in right right we talk I mean but but that's that's a thought that nobody knows about you know and and but this is what I'm saying is that if you want to you want to gain their respect their vote and and and you know their acknowledgement to saying yes it's a great idea you really you you need to sell it okay so um thank you thank you all right thank you very much anybody else Larry come on D yeah you're the clothing Mario come on down Mario R come on get that get that slider going I want to start off with the person who I refer to as the senator and thank him for all his work that he's done I've met with the senator probably five six seven years with ACS can we come and see him every March and talk to him about cancer programs Etc and just a little observation this last visit you were like I couldn't believe how wide he was smiling it was tremendous I was so I was like really thrilling it was did you ever run against him though never okay never run against correct correct wait did you run for state senate no I ran for assembly oh okay all right that's right I when he was in the assembly did you run against him as assembly I didn't know him when he was in the assembly and I didn't run against him then so yes absolutely I one question and then I have a couple of comments uh 2023 d335 authorizing the execution of agreement with four square research Inc you get more info on that a little bit say it's it's going to be a marketing study in Cooper in collaboration with the YMC CA as to what the community would support in relation to an indoor Recreation Center the programs that they would like to see the price points that they would like to see what the community is looking for with an indoor recreation center it's a demographics of the community so for square is going to do a random selection of um I guess marketing research as to what the community would support it's part of the process if um to partner up with the YMCA okay cuz I had I I heard mentioned long ago about partnering with the YMCA but I had heard anything solid so that's a we had to develop that relationship and they had to so it's a solid thing now I'm not going to say we have not signed any agca it depends on how this marketing study comes out to see if this end of the county would support an YMCA coming down to this end of the county gotcha understood understood okay um what I'd like to do is address cuz I had to leave early when we had the meeting on Tuesday because I had a zoom call that I had to be on the comments that were made uh from the committee through the through the chair uh in regard to a number of things and and it's uh committee and katolo these are are your comments and I just like to address them okay uh the first one you started out in your public comments uh about the 2035 edict about electric cars you don't think that's really going to happen do you Absol it's going to happen I don't know if you were here in the beginning part of the meeting but on Monday they're making the vote no this is to increase the gas tax is what they're voting on correct a lot of other things are in in in that thing in that you need go on go on the State website go to the MonDay meeting Agriculture and look at that we had a discussion of that the Ocean County Mayors Association this morning it's a lot more in detail than what people believe well it's it's to me the whole concept is asinine because where you getting where are you getting the electric power from to charge to charge your car addressed me talking you're talking to the choir here yes yes but so I I I agree with you 100% on that yeah okay because the electric power that you're charging your cars with is coming from fossil fuel so what is the point okay my opinion the gentleman who is thinking of this should be wearing floppy shoes and a red nose my opinion floppy Sho he's got funny teeth clown okay that was the point okay but um you made some comments in there that kind of struck a court in I think during the meeting cuz I had to watch afterwards I wasn't here when well that part I was here for um you made a statement about uh the people have no vote no voice and that this is coming from a nameless faceless bureaucrat and I just have to say Okay some people out here in the audience feel the same way about what's going on with the new town hall and Recreation Center so you know um you got to look at at where you're coming from when you make when you make statements like that just my opinion just my opinion okay um right you also made comments the next thing that I cot on it was the nitrogen in the bay okay and you you uh mentioned that the D and barnegate Bay partnership are running this and it's a power grab and will affect every single person uh because of their so-called goals you mentioned that the Ocean County Board of Health oversees the bay and I went to the uh Ocean County Board of Health and what they test for let me see if I can get the word right Interra caucus Interra caucus and eoli C they don't measure nitrogen that's right we don't right and what nitrogen does and has is doing to the Bay it's killing the vegetation at the bottom of the bay which is important to all the sea life that's in there so for them to look at nitrogen is it really is an important thing for the health of the bay okay but what's their end point Barry uh what's their to cut to cut the amount of nitrogen in the bay and if nitrogen comes from Bergen County flows down here and and some nameless faceless bureaucrat comes down here and tests it do they close the beach in front of your house I that that's right now they call this stuff goals and when they want money they they're going to dangle carrots and nuts and it's going to be money because everybody dispaly needs money we take money then they're going to want control just like and so keep your eyes the goal is the health of bingate bay you have to explain to me I'm going to ask you you have to explain to me how is water from Bergen County getting here because my understanding is the body of water that barate bay is part of starts at Sandy Hook and runs down to Cape May so how is water from Bergen County getting down there's title flows and title studies everywhere from listen rivers bay estuaries ocean we test all of it and I can tell you that it's better than ever been you don't test barate Bay you do not test barate Bay you test beaches that are are off of barate bay but you don't do barnegate Bay itself okay you do not the ocean I read on your site you don't I looked at what Amhurst Beach is Barnet Bay what's that Amhurst Beach is Barn Bay yeah it's not a Cove it's right on the bay I Beach isy Station Road in Pine Beach there's a list of them we start up near beach we go all the way down you're testing the beaches for say the word again and Terra cacus and eoli you're not you're not testing for nitrogen nitrogen as I mentioned affects the the uh plant growth in the bay which in turn affects all the life in the bay okay so I just wanted to to to make that point well I'm standing by my statements I won't walk them back and I'm going to defend your right and everyone else's right right to use the bay have boats Fish recreate because there's some people that don't want us to have that and I don't know who those people are and you say they're who they are okay fine we'll see meeting with them all soon'll be at that meeting okay we'll disagree on that um just to let you know in March of 2023 and the research that I've done the New Jersey de D suspended harvesting shellfish in three areas of barate bay Double Creek forkid river and Oyster Creek because of fecal uh bacteria counts so there is things going on in the bay okay nitrogen's just one of them um let me see all right then we had two closures in 998 samples I think those numbers are exact I didn't know you talk about this tonight but we had two we can we can talk offline yeah please I have I have documentation but I didn't want to be throwing documentation around that's good okay um later on in the meeting you were speaking with a person who was talking about the Bayfront Park uh in the public comments M okay and um you first comment was why shouldn't we cut the grass and I think I have documentation to talk about that but also I came up here two meetings ago and spoke uh from the uh mosquito commission and they definitely frown on continue uh cutting of the of the uh it's not really grass of the growth that along the bay they spoke about that but I have others also that when we sit down I can show you the documentation it's it's important um you made a comment about uh the what's down there now you really like me tonight man I I'm listen I'm down with how many times do I come up here with a good this is good man I'm ready I got my dancing shoes on okay let's roll okay you made a comment we wanted to build the gabian walls higher but got pushed back from owners because it would block their view the proposal that came from Lacy Township had three-foot uh um Gabon boxes there was never any mention and the only comments that came from the public when it went to the the uh New Jersey u d talked about the Restriction of access to the water because of the gab on boxes so if you have documentation somewhere that talks about that you are going to make them higher when we sit down you can show me that because I I never heard that and I have the documentation because I was I've been on this for a long time that particular thing I don't live there but I I've participated in the in the activities uh you made the comment why is the grass down there more important than than in our parks that are more frequently more frequented and I don't know why you said huie because hu's Tom's River maybe you met Hebrew or something else probably me Hebrew definely said definitely said Gilly but I thought he said Gilly okay anyway the reason that it's different than any other Park is because of its proximity to the Bay okay and and you mentioned about Bergen County things coming down what we do here along the bay affects everybody else who uses the bay all the other towns out on the Barrier Island and everyone else around us that's why it's different than any other Park and I'm giving you my view okay okay uh again you've said we're allowed to take care of our property in our town but when you're near the bay like that it's not just our property it's it's barnegate Bay and that's very important because the bay again is shared by every town all the way up Point Pleasant and people should be allowed to use it boats jet skis fishermen right but I if you show me documentation where they're saying they're going to restrict boats jet skis and well I want them to put it in writing what's their get why why do they have such interest in that little spot down there when there's 117 miles of Bayfront because of the people because because of the homes they can put in in writing because of the homes that are there okay okay the water is rising I we did a presentation right after Hurricane Sandy that showed over the years how far that has eroded away I mean you know it's it's it's frightening and it continues so let me ask you do you want people to use that bay at all I mean you you're always the guy on your side of the Ledger bar and you know I respect you you you you you frame an argument you make a case and so I think what the end point is and all the people that didn't want the graph said you don't want any you want a sustained if I have a piece of property you want me to wait 5 years so I can build a house down there to get a c to get a permit you don't want me to put a bulkit in do you want me to have a boat do you want me to use that I think you have a right to use that people have a right to use the bay okay what I'm talking about is doing projects resp that will that will protect the homeowners who live there because we're a little different than many other places along the bay these homes are right on the bay what separates them from the bay is the property that's owned from the by the point of view of the of the the title that I hold with this County that bay is as healthy as it's ever been okay for MATA caucus I'm going to disagree with you well I have the test I work with the D with the nitrogen it's not when you talk to the people people about the nitrogen which is important to the health of the bay okay it's not okay so so if they find the if they find the nitrogen Spike they want to close it right no is that I'm asking you they're going to look for my my impression is they're going to look for the source of the nitrogen because a lot of the nitrogen comes from fertilizer people using chemicals etc etc okay that's what they're looking for that needs to stop if the if the plant life in the bay is going to what they want to do let me ask you this if it fails you don't want us building on the bay well I'll tell you what my opinion I'll give you my Straight opinion if you build that close to the Bay my opinion you're being foolish because the water's coming up and it's going to continue to come up but wa you you're you're very concerned about the nitrogen in the bag correct that's part of it okay so are you protesting are your group protesting the new housing that is going on the Barrier Islands because that rainwater going into the bay absolutely all of it all of it's got to go into the B where where Macy Township some of it some of it's going not into the bag but good the stuff that's on the bag well that's why that's why the gross all of the stuff on the Barrier Islands it has to go into the bag absolutely you're 100% correct so are you guys talking about stopping I don't know who you guys are I'm speak you're you're saying the nitrogen where's the nitrogen coming from he just says the fertilizer runoff it's coming from the Barrier Island it comes from the barrier is it comes from everywhere it comes from everywhere so I think what you know go to the barri island say you guys can't build anymore see what happens what I'm saying is if you're worried about the health of the bay this is what they're addressing okay the nitrogen the the and they're just looking at it now the nitrogen is responsible for killing the under under under the bay the the plant life under the bed it also feeds those kelp beds nitrogen is a fertilizer that people put on their Lawns that you can buy legally by the pallet at Home Depot and people put that on their lawn some of it does run off it does become a problem after a while absolutely right so but if you want if you're worried about the health of the bay this is something that they're addressing okay that's all I'm saying okay so there how are they addressing it are they going to cut all the building are they going to close they don't have the authority to cut they the government they they're the state they could do whatever the hell they want I I bet I'm not sure I just know what their proposals are they're looking they're measuring the amount of nitrogen you guys yeah let's sit down at some other time go ahead May I'm falling asleep it's 9:00 it's p myad anyway uh you made one more sure everything that was done down there was uh compelled by another entity that made us do it that's not the fact the plans for what was done down there was put forward by Lacy Township and submitted to the D yes well ask Mr Kenneth because he was in charge of that down there and he and he complained to me one time I it was with the last meeting he showed up and the sa the born Bay people had what 90 some more uh wants that they wanted from us the last meeting after an agreement had been made after an agreement had been made in principle we showed up he showed up and there was a lot more one from the barn Bay people but I'm saying what was what was done down there was not ordered by the D or anyone else there was a plan put forward by Lacy Township okay that the D reviewed and approved correct yes right correct so it wasn't compelled by the D the plan was put forward by Lacy and approved by the D there were things that they added in well no you when you do when you engineer you have to you know there's guidelines that Engineers have to follow that there not Lacy Township guidelines you know well there there's building anything there's guidelines yeah you know that right okay what I'm saying is it down there was not compelled it was a combination of State rules and local rules that are that that guided that submission right but the but the the plan itself was submitted Lacy Township correct that's all I'm I'm saying and I appreciate your time your closure your pitch count is way up my arms hanging down thank you much for your time anybody else tror Lacy yeah um so I don't reason I got up was you guys were talking about this subject so we're on the same page I agree with everything you're saying um and just so everybody knows uh the was it the um when I belonged to doing the U Ocean County ag ulture extension they talked about this stuff all the time and uh they actually that's why the applicators with the NPK nitrogen phosphorus potassium stuff they cannot actually uh apply that stuff anymore like a certain distance from the water anyways and uh what I wanted to ask you you said why do they want to do it in that area is that the same area that they're bringing the cabling in no no no okay just want to know okay and then the other thing is you guys mentioned that uh oread was over but still have Atlantic Shores um no what's that we don't have Atlantic Shores we we don't have wor anymore they're at Atlantic Shores is not us it's another project in another town right with Atlantic Shores so orad still owns the rights and they will sell that no you are 100% so we have Atlantic Shores they're not going to go through seagert with all that trouble they might but they're just going to buy out the the work that has been done cabling and my question is what are you guys preparing for because they will be doing that they're not dumb um will you guys prepare in advance like something you just said you went to the mayor's meeting MH uh did mayor Peterson uh manini did any of them bring up like hey can we have a concerted effort here to stop this because I'll tell you right now I'm uh as soon as they start building those things I'm out of this state and I have three other people that want to buy house they're waiting to find out what's going on and then I have fishermen they're they're they're being destroyed too so all around people at my age like don't even vote because they don't trust after all this happened they're just like I don't trust my government at all which I agree with what you were saying let me answer your question the Ocean County mayor Association I want to say three years ago four years ago when this whole thing just surfaced yeah okay they came out against it they resolved against they came out against it with a resolution and so forth yes years too yeah and that's about four years ago yes they keep talking about it you mentioned too that uh you guys lost out a lot of money when or said so what did they pull what it's a host Community benefit host Community benefit so what they were giving you a million dollars or something or well we're not going to disclose that never sign the agreements we not signning but they were we among friends here it was a 35 35 year um commitment that was a big loss okay so what happens if Atlantic Shores comes to you after they buy that cabling route and want to do a commitment well we negotiate which is what we did with can you guys have discussion bring it like kind of to avoid what was happening here which is you know kind of not involving the public with this and I think that's why the whole thing with the municipal complex is so tough because people felt like it was just like underneath like without them knowing with regards to to the wind turbines whether we want them or not unfortunately the state of New Jersey issued them a permit right and and again so I understand the whole BPU the home rule which is by the way very illegal in my op they may be coming to us whether we sit down and be nice play nice or not so if we don't sit down and play nice and try to maybe get a host Community benefit we'll get nothing and they'll still come I understand what you're saying and and that argument creates such despondency with uh the community and people my age because they saw people saying that very argument and what they do they just sat down they're like I give up and they left and they if we sit down and give up they're going to come to our community and we won't get a host let me put it this way I know you guys think this is just like okay you get 35 commitment money you have to realize and you mentioned before about your children's future okay you have to realize that this is uh yellowston gets 3 million visitors years we get 115 million visitors in New Jersey a year here M and to act like that's nothing is just incredibly ridiculous to me and I know that you guys are on the same page with me but you're making the uh The Logical argument kind of that hey well it's going to happen anyways so might as well just like can't beat him join him type thing but we got to fight and that's why I was saying the mayor meeting I know mayor Peterson I know all those people are trying to get everybody on board so I'm really just my my opinion is encourage you guys to really help out they been they had fought it but this hasn't been a topic at the mayor's meeting no it hasn't it has has hasn't been a I know about two months ago the three months ago he brought it up a bunch I was there no I I can tell they haven't talked about that today was the first day they talked about it um in probably a year uh they haven't really talked about it because they were busy fighting it and so forth like that um but you know again and listen I know I hear from you the bottom line is is is that permits are there okay whe whether it's wor dead can you take those permits away I know BPU will override it let me let me finish those permits are there they're worth billions billions so they will either come back in and Murphy's trying to push that now what's the locations of the off the off Atlantic City right off Atlantic City off Atlantic City all right off Atlantic City that will either we dead we'll come back in because and do it themselves in five 10 years or whenever things calm down or they'll sell them and somebody else is going to do it okay whether we like it or not who was coming to you guys who was coming to you guys where dead I who was it Tom sou was it meline herbish who was it that was coming to Tom Souther and a bunch of other members of their company yeah bigest weasel ever I mean but I will tell you this and bronica dealt with oread too they were great deal with they were very course they are they're they were good they were good they're destroying your your everything about New Jersey that makes New Jersey great and and people don't realize like maybe uh I'm the only one that goes to the beach here I don't know but people don't realize that you will not go I will not be going and staring at huge turbines that's 1,50 foot above water and almost 350 below water that's 1400 ft M that's insane and they're going to be eventually thousands of them right now 100 out there there and you know different Le sites but the point is I I just really can't tell you how much I hope that you guys fight back against this a little harder and I'm not saying that listen I I if you could take their money and then lie like just take their money and do the opposite go ahead do it I'm all for that but please fight back that's all I'm saying good plan yeah I I get it but you know this is our beach this is our children's future your fight's at the state level yes oh I know that and Sean l larette Monday oh man that guy is evil thank you evil evil evil thank you thank you for coming up and thank you anybody else this lady wants to talk okay my name is lesie Mangold I live in forkid River I've lived here for the past U maybe eight years in bville Berkeley before that um I've been very involved uh with the offshore wind fight myself um as far as a municipal complex just as an aside as a taxpayer here at I would say I hate to see that much money invested in a new building when it could be repurposed um but I I'm up here really to talk about offshore wind and mayor I think you said it was a done deal orad um is out in terms of wind they pulled the trigger they pulled the trigger but I just for the record want to point out because I think the Public's perception is since orad pulled out offshore wind is off the table completely but people think that we have 27 uh proposed I have the clean ocean action map here in the New York bik from mon talk down to Cape M um did you did you sign the uh letter of with the mayor's um no did not and I would like to ask why we followed the sign I had to deal with the fact that they were concerned about the whales and the Dolphins Di and we checked with Noah and there was no scientific evidence what guar go check the no website they will tell you okay wait wait wait let me let me finish let me finish go check the Noah website we said we'd followed a science on that and I can tell I can tell we did that's what we did so regarding the science I'm no expert but I do know that Noah uh has done no Research into um like what is affecting the whales in terms of sonar seismic testing um they've issued is it 78 thousand takes incidental harassment authorizations thousand which means they're allowed to harm displace kill affect navigation for marine mammals so if Noah says there there's no science but yet they issue a take in the construction they contradict themselves but they haven't even done the ney Tas okay right and that's a whole another thing but in terms of science it's um um that's a misconception well okay the government but I understand that Lacy you have the high voltage cable coming in to the substations here at Oyster Creek so I could I guess say understand why you wouldn't want to sign the letter you did get a good neighbor Grant right for half a million or a million I was in a zoom meeting where it was talked about that you chair uh asking the community about what what you thought would be the best way to spend that money that was probably last fall maybe this I don't remember we got a a Federal grant for towns with clo with uh to do a a marketing study and an economic development study for towns that have closing nuclear power plant is that the half a million The Good Neighbor 200,000 I did not get a half a million dollar Grant a good neighbor Grant at all and then maybe I'm remembering it different but that's what I think yeah we got a $200,000 Grant from the federal government because we have a power plant that closed in our okay but you did say we lost a lot of money because orad we lost commity host benefits that's oh host benefits so um I don't know I mean I would ask that you would sign that letter um and you know there are towns that are let just see if I can pull it up that are suing the D correct um based on what they've done sorry I wasn't expecting to talk that's okay not that in the newspapers today okay yeah it looks like all Long Beach Island uh Brigantine um yeah not to interrupt you clean ocean action the one I saw was just talking about w beach Tri that's it I'm sure there's other towns that many towns so I would ask that perhaps you get involved with that as well because it is our future um it is 2.2 million acres in the ocean it's 3,800 turbines it is going to affect our ocean environment not just our view not not just our way of life it's going to affect the whole ecosystem not to mention the bag you're going to have a high voltage cable running under the bay they're going to do it anyway probably not if with enough public outcry I know there's billions of dollars invested however orad pulled out because of interest rates supply chain Etc other companies are looking at I'm just pleading with you so not to interrupt you but let me give you my take on why I wasn't one reason I'm not in favor of signing the letter and and what I want I hope to see in the future we had a nuclear power plant which was part of the lifeblood of our our Township and over the years we had other municipalities turn their back on us as we try to get it relicensed they even came out against us so I'm hoping now had that power plant not shut down we might not have not have the glut we have in in energy Supply now we're working towards hopefully replacing that power plant which something called an SMR a small modular reactor which is a nuclear power plant when that happens I'm going to personally go to every one of those Mayors who signed that letter against us because what's going to happen is they sign that in conjunction with environmentalists and what's going to happen when we try and bring in that power plan here those same environmentalists are going to turn on us and say we don't want a nuclear power plant there so I'm hoping that they now go against those environmentalists you know know so had they come out and helped us out which they didn't as a matter of fact they did the exact opposite maybe we wouldn't be in the financial situation that we have and we're fine right now because we're still still getting our energy receipt tax our property taxes and so on and so forth I think but but again they didn't help us well that kind of sounds TI Fort but but oyster was the second oldest in the country so I think still operating safely I've talked to some people that work there I don't know but be but it's besides the point I mean I understand it was a rable I understand it was a lifeblood of the community personally I mean I was opposed to nuclear power when I was young okay good yeah cuz I think it's much cleaner and I think it beats putting turbines in the ocean but anyway so again I just go back to please reconsider and uh you know maybe join the lawsuit and I I will probably say this let me just say when the issue comes back around and it will come back around we we'll have to be so please and I Monday the 18th I believe there's a hearing in Trenton where uh Governor Murphy wants to put forth legislation that I if I have it clear because I've just read about this and CH could probably help me out agricultural committee corre okay and that when Murphy's out of office that this could still go through I mean and and you I I'm sorry I missed part of your conversation earlier what we were talking about with the electric cars but just my last point on wind energy it's it's like third yeah I mean it's 38% effective and we have you know super storms here we have hurricanes we have you know I'm I'm preaching to the choir just going to say the same but please since I'm preaching to the choir please when it like I said when it comes back around this committee we'll have to address it thank you thank you very much gentl gentl Robert F River okay I'll show your name Robert S oh hi how are you okay um I'm against I'm against building another Cathedral here okay okay and I think we can work out something better you know down the road hopefully you know I mean I mean I'm hearing a lot of things that I didn't hear before you know tonight's meeting and some other meeting okay but uh just want to know arene and I uh uh just want to say that we're we're against it and Senator nice talking to you all knowing you you got a lot ofs I get all your letters and I your two-page handwritten letters talking about the saving our oceans I want our oan saved okay I got three and a half grandchildren and well this one sto in the oven coming out in February so we got two I got two girls and one boy right now very good and I want them to be able to go to lavet Pleasant Beach Park wh they hours to get God bless Merry Christmas Merry Christmas thank you elas Merry Christmas quick quick we want to get we want to get out of here I did too you said something that had you said Noah scientifically said that okay there is so much wrong with that um one I was actually following the AIS of all these vessels and stuff they didn't even report it in their reports okay there's level a b and c reports okay level B andc you guys are going to love this proprietary so they don't get to share it okay just like we were talking out before which is why everybody gets upset when they use that word and then the other thing is Trenton Hearing in May this was the Dem hearing not the Republican hearing the Dems said uh that AMCs which is amsy are the ones that actually do the necropsies they come in from New York and they do the ne Cropsies so Sheila Dean from the Marine manal stranding Center gives it to them they prepare the tissues and they send it out to their own Labs well they're funded and boarded by jont of equinor win John Kush of the Carpenters Union which as you see they're the ones out there we at the jerseys all the time trying to push this and then uh there's a bunch of other people that are on the board that are pushing the wind farm so saying the fox Garden the hen house is science is not that's called corruption so totally not science okay and then the other thing too and uh the scientists at the Trenton hearing said it was 208 DB their own person in their draft they said it doesn't go over over 180 DB and if you know anything about decb war decb every time you go two and a half that's doubling that's way more than what they said so just want to clarify moot motion to close the floor second all in favor resolution 2023 347 resolution Township Lacy County of otion City New Jersey authorizing the competing of an executive session in accordance with the open public meeting act move it all in favor we have to do a roll call on the resolution Mr Ken yes Mr C yes yes ABS motion to adjourn move it it all in favor no further business