don't say what good s it's like yeah but it's not down there it's up here all right all right you don't have to say it Chanel Number me neither that's what happens when you wake up at 3 a.m. so gas o' start I think we're good are you recording uh yes we are recording evening I'd like to call this meeting to order at 7' send to read the statement of the open public meetings act into the record this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act with an annual notice advertised in the January 10 2024 edition of the Trenton Times the annual notice was provided to the hunter County Democrat and the Trenton Times and the meeting notice was sent to members on the list sered department heads and the city engineer on Monday March 4 2024 the meeting agenda provides for Action items known at the time of publication and is subject to change this meeting is being recorded and streamed live using the zoom meeting platform roll call yes please councilwoman Kaminsky here councilman Li here councilman Stegman here mayor Nock here and just noting that council president Lambert is absent thanks and c will you just explain the microphone situation I will um you know we we had a micro an issue with the microphone because we had um the amplifier because we had unplugged everything for one of the store and moved it we were able to get it back up and working but after our January meeting it stopped working so we've been working with art of sound and today he came in and there was no way that he could get the amp amplifier started so um we we have a group of people council president Lambert is one of them and we're working on ADA compliance issues for the Justice Center as well City Hall and um we're looking into the loop system which actually goes all the way around and then down the middle of the um the the middle of the room and in doing that you'll be able to use an iPhone if you have it to connect to your earphones and connect right in or you'll be using you know our other system if you don't um so right now we have a choice a short-term plan which means that we purchase um an amplifier um or we wait for long term so we're we're really doing our best to try and do the short term and get something that's inexpensive that won't that you know we can maybe use at City Hall or some other place later do you just need an amplifier regular well when I was the basement okay maybe I have to look because electric guitar that vyl we could play in the breaks it's correct yes part of the problem is is uh this room doesn't have very much um you know that that um sound yeah the sound bounces and so that's what people with hearing aids have issues hearing so we're working to resolve it and I apologize it's I'm this is kind of out of my wheelhouse but I'll do what I can and um see if I he said something about 700 amps whoa that's something to use in State Penitentiary okay then maybe he said 70 no 700 yeah so he's looking for something compatible okay all right so we're working on it in the meantime we'll try to project um I did invite people to come up to the first second row if they have trouble hearing us I all right um I'm ask everybody to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and then we remain standing for a moment of silence in who Vietnam for veteran member of the city's parks and W uh commission lamberville mun Municipal author uh husbands the council president Lambert uh Jo this Sky whose influence will uh live for a long time in our hearts our smiles and the work that we do and uh uh I hope so that we can have a moment of gratitude for for everything that he was and everything that he continues to be in terms of his influence our lives pledge allegiance to the flag the United States of America to The Republic stand one nation God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you we start off as we uh always do with uh public participation uh this is a time for the public to come uh to the uh to the front unless you have mobility issues and uh speak to the council as questions comments uh we ask you to step to the podium if you you can state your name and address uh you have three minutes of uh time to uh just after which we may or may not uh anyone I can speak this evening uh Jeff T 33 Wilson Street um I guess what I want to talk about is the um the ongoing um focus group on song word utility um and I think that's an appropriate name because it's really not a s meeing of any kind I watched some of it and what I found was that it was was very one-sided it was fair and balance sort of like Fox Model and the reason is because you really can't ask questions and many of the people there are not really schooled and and have background of in the issues and so in listening there's some things that I I wanted to just point out that had I you know been able to ask questions or other people maybe we would have you know gotten some answers I mean first and foremost people in C are in the business of doing this and they're going to make money if we do adopt an ordinance they now they got the money to do this that's what they do they go around and some of the groups pushing this are being well funded to do this without any results because not one town in New jorg's done it so the point that I wanted to kind of get at like one of the things they said that if we have a stor word utility and use you know it would lower sewer bills no it won't it happens in towns that have combined so we don't have that problem we have a lot of other problems that problem don't they said they said that if you make your own storm with utility it would be easier to join a regional that's not true because if you have a utility and you join another utility you have to defease your bonds you have to deal with your assets you have to join that other utility I've done it I've been part of that so that wasn't accurate they've done no analysis of the town on land use to see where potential project could go because you have to exempt areas like flood Hazard which we have a lot of and they're expanding steep slope areas where you're not going to hold the water and then you have your Cur cover areas um when you look at the graph that they had about who pays and tries to show residential less but then it has like public land well who's going to pay on that that's us it's schools or it's Parks it's going to be the taxpayer um and so my concern is that we're really not getting a full picture make sure that people have found an picture um this is a very important decision and I happen to believe that this town has serious flooding problems how we handle those problems are critical you know they talked about what the cost would be but if you set up this SE utility the costs are going to be there because you need to have an executive director and staff and that it might be a better analysis to see what the town itself can do in hiring more staff to maintain our storm water or to hire Consultants to do plans or to to help get grants to get funding from other sources I think that this is said it was the beginning of the process my concern that this is not going to be theing of the process that we're heading down the path without actually having a right scrutiny and public in I'll leave it at that thank hi Judy Leon 86 North Union Street um since the subject of storm water came up early and I don't think we're going to go that long but I want to get home to see the State of the Union so I'm starting here uh this made me I watched the thing I saw when it cut out I stay it came back on I'm trying to follow it the same way others are trying to follow it but I get back to our question about maintenance and what we're doing for maintenance and how we're handling what we need to do right now with or without anything that comes in the future maintenance on this thing is like when's the best time to plant a tree well 10 years ago but guess what the second best time is now so we need to be doing it now and whatever happens with other ways to handle this we need to be doing things now because now is when things are a problem now is when we have to get started and as step just said if we need to be looking at sapping and doing things we need to do that we are frequently told we don't have the resources to do this or that about storm water or flooding or maintenance we don't have the resources and calling something a storm water utility doesn't create resources it gives a different name to the bill we did but it's the same source of money it's the same source of resources and we need to recognize that and say that they don't usually say that in these in these programs we've had they say there's choices we can do nothing we can raise taxes or we can have a store more utility as though that creates money it doesn't we're still the money public lands we're the money our land we're the money so we might as well just step up and realize we're the money so let's try to see whether we can do it better with our existing team with our existing capabilities with our existing knowledge base and people and if we need to look at hiring a couple more people then look let's look at that instead of creating a whole new bureaucracy and a whole new set of issues like that so thank you thank you uh Peter Hall 41 l l um I'm here to talk about uh The Parks of Recreations uh uh grant that they received for the Farm Pro um very concerned I I I went to their meeting and uh that was sensibly to be a design opportunity influence opportunity that see Cas um but concerned about the impact and um I do intend to attend their next meeting next week to make sure I understand things better you know the process they went through to come up decision that this was a good idea I'm all for soil water management River flood so I I I think about things like that constantly um but I don't think that I uh you know I one understand like how they recognize the impact it will have on the community as a resource and uh what options they considered to do something different $300,000 U but today I'm here to sort of understand more about what the city's plan is for that property because when I was at the meeting I got word from the mayor that there was uh things planned that were nobody off been s asking as many people as I can what they understand about property about the property that I've spoken to at all that's at least 50 people um I want to see also if there's something I can um offer to because I don't want to come here and say just be a complainer i' like to contribute where I can um and I want to focus on what is uh I think a uh a need for better communication IND things like this that property I talk 50 people two people said they are B with that property is city of property that we can access unless I'm trespassing three times a week I you said I very dealing with the property I use it as part of my route in the evening to go around town running um but I believe generally that the city is squandering a huge opportunity I'm very familiar with it I take a picture literally every time I look it's really spectacular go up on the top two corners this the best view in town it struck me as incredible that nobody else is there ever and um you know there that property is really a gem right if you go up there and you see it and and you feel it and you just absorb it it's really spectacular um so I just want to point out that uh 25 years ago I was confronted with a similar situation into readingon Township I was Readington had just bought a 60 acre Farmstead or had just acquired a 60 acre Farmstead near me that I had been using As A Horse Trail and um I was like oh boy their intention it seemed was to actually subdivide it and sell it and I felt that that was unfortunate and went and got involved and recognized that there were other people similarly concerned it turned out that they used that property as a resource for the community this was 30 years ago and it's still it's incredibly valuable resource and um uh so we on that property that this property is very similar we had a historic building that we converted to a museum school tued to do Recreations we did Farm demonstrations on on the property we had TRS on the property and it was a community event Barn we had Barn there's an awful lot of things that could be done with that property the plan by the uh by the recreation committee committee is to actually essentially make the entire sort of right hand side the southern half of that property unusable it's great trail that will be moved through and um so I you know I I I want to find a way of getting more people aware of it try to get a invol of people to participate in the process in like anybody really generally is is familiar with what the opportunities there are and what the the with the outcome of the of the Property Disposition of the properties anyone else in the room anyone online there is Margaret please state your name for the record and go ahead and uh ask your question or comment thank you Maxwell assets one North Johnson Avenue Hamilton New Jersey so I had um just two brief questions really um one I wondered if we could have an update on the status of the uh resiliency I call it engineer but kleinfelder project and and where that stands I think the city's very fortunate to have that grant for the next year and I understand that it's just really um now getting started and then second on the um application to become certified for the historic status where that stands I I know it's a process with d and there's ordinance revisions but I again just was asking for an update on those two items thank you anyone else no how many people do we have online uh we have six people online um have a motion to close public comment all in favor please say I hi I any of the council want to make any remarks or enter any questions um just uh s your comment about the CL Pro with now open or par um you know we have talked a lot about it me so anyone who's been here for any meetings I think knows what council would like to do with that we are exploring trying to sell to small forun with that U you know theab Market but the large portion of OB Reserve we actually have funding that's going to prevent us from developing that future that would accepted so through GRE acre so um I don't know what 50 people you talked to listening to what we've been talking about for the past year so and I love what you said how you have some ideas and I would encourage you to reach out to Parks and Rec and get involved with that uh you know we need more thank you other thoughts from the council okay um just a couple thoughts for me uh you know I was going to talk about the the stor water utility uh a little bit later on but I'll just touch base on that so really the purpose of the focus group for us was really to kind of pull in a variety of people uh we do have people uh will large commercial properties people in different residential neighborhoods uh profits be present a church there a Catholic Church um man who who owns a lot of departments here in town and and really the purpose of the focus group is to get people to be asking questions uh which they've done and uh you we decided prinson hydro and WP decided at that meeting that we'll have our first kind of full public meeting on April 23rd I hav had a chance to announce this yet that will be an open public meeting uh the members of the focus group some of them will be there for that help guide some of the questions comments I would certainly encourage and I haven't had a chance to speak to the council about this but I would certainly encourage council members to attend uh up on the day sobody be kind of out out out here uh and I'll give everybody in the public an opportunity to listen and to ask questions and to kind of learn a little bit more about uh stormm utilities and some of the data that's being presented um so that would be April 23rd and we will uh publish a notice that meeting um since the council will attend but there will be no council action taken at that meeting it'll just be April 23rd yeah uh there'll be one further uh focus group meeting after that on the fifth I think it's on the 5th of May I'd have to double check but uh not not the fifth day because that's a Saturday Sunday a Sunday I do need to make a correction speaking of uh May 4th I put that as the the budget potential uh second Hearing in budget adoped date in langal matters I meant to say May 2nd so we'll make that correction we will be doing that the May 2nd council meeting um but uh I'm mistaken they have the of them um and just uh Judy to your uh to to your point about maintenance and storm water so you know one of the things that we uh and I was going to talk a little bit about the I'll talk a little bit about the grant um the storm water the storm water management grant that we got um we we are doing a lot this year I'm putting together the storm water prevention storm water pollution prevention plan it's a huge task um and uh we're probably only one of a few communities in the entire state that have submitted it and have gotten $50,000 in fact the former uh engineer told us last uh this week that he thinks we may be the only municipality that that uh submitted that and and got Grant so we are working on maintenance uh it's it's important when you understand the maintenance that you have to have the framework for the maintenance so the sow water pollution prevention plan provides that that framework which tells uh gives us you know 27 pages of framework for what we have to do uh as part of our tier a compliance and as I said before we 34 modified or new requirements as part of that so uh I actually think that we're doing quite a good job in terms of uh getting where we need to go and uh that that St water pollution prevention plan is available supposed that it's been approved by the de it's posted on our City's storm water management page so you can take a look at it and begin to understand kind of what some of the challenges are for the city as we as we go into deeper uh and more comprehensive compliance with those regulations um Peter I I think you and I should meet and have a conversation I would I would love to kind of walk you through the process by which the the national efficient Wildlife Grant kind of came to be uh started I think as I mentioned in the meeting back 2022 we didn't get it that first year uh we have uh in fact talked about it many times and it was the Grant application was not done by Parks and Rec specifically Maran uh Forge was a part of writing the Grant application uh but all along the way the council was involved it's a big it's a big project and there was a lot of there was a lot of buy and there was a lot of public conversation about it but I would love to meet with you and uh just two of us we we'll have a long conversation about how that unfolded and uh and and I think as Cil light said you have some great since you know I'm glad that you're here I'm glad that you're participating and you you're concerned about the property I think that we could benefit from the conversation um Margaret uh a couple things for for you um I am meeting on March 19th with uh a volunteer to work through the requir the required ordinance for the CLG we have had some uh you know people's personal commitments but not allowed or of uh time on that project so you know I decided to step in and I uh I'm now be I will now be working on March 19th to get that ordinance uh up and running uh we are using an ordinance that was taken from Chesterfield as a as a as a basis for our ordinance they their ordinance was approved by the state so uh I will be doing that uh soon and I will have more information on that um probably I could probably give an update at our next meeting on the 21st um and then I'm pleased to say that uh we had our uh kickoff meeting uh on Tuesday uh for the municipal assistance program Grant uh we met with members of kleinfelder and also ramble engineering uh which I didn't know what's going to happen but there actually two engineering groups as part of this so kleinfelder and ramble ramble is a well-known engineering outfit that is uh I think they're in the not in the Netherlands they're somewhere in Norway or Sweden but they have offices in uh New York um so we had a big kickoff meeting on Tuesday on March 15th uh they will come out to the city for a comprehensive site visit I expect if ibly to spend three or four hours with them um and then uh they kind of walk through a timeline a little bit it will be a year-long process so the first task I'll take a minute to kind of go through this and I'll I'll release this either on the website or through Lambertville matters first task is a stakeholder and Community engagement so there's a we're developing Community engagement plan happy to talk about that with anybody individually what that looks like um there'll be committee meetings there'll be Community engagement meetings additional engagement uh there's a lot of research of data that they're going to be kind of collecting about uh kind of programs and grants that we've done in the past for resilience uh and then will'll be generating a vulnerability assessment a climate hazard assessment a vulnerability assessment and kind of a buildout analysis uh that will result in task four which is a mun a municipal resilience action plan and then task five is implementation so this is a very comprehensive big project that's going to take about a year it's going to have a lot of uh opportunity for the public to engage uh one of the things I'll doing is contacting sort of different groups in the city as well through the through our normal channels at lamberville matters and and ler I'll be kind of targeting specific uh you know databases that I have um to make sure that we're meeting with people individually to see kind of what their concerns are about about resilience here in the city is it about flooding is it about potential uh if you two could not talk while I'm speaking i' appreciate it um uh you know is it about the risks of low well water on the Hills you know so we're going to be getting a lot of community engagement so I will have more information on that after the 15th when we come for the site visit but uh I continue to be very pleased uh by by this um by the prospects that this is gonna going to bring to the city so I think that's touches on most of the public comments and so we're going to move uh this evening we have a proclamation for triom awareness month um this uh is a is a a motion to adopt the proclamation designated in March 9th 2024 as Tri n day month of March as shomi month um so we talk a little bit about this kind of individually uh are there any questions from the council about it okay can I have a motion please have a second second all in favor please say I motion carries uh we have a bills list tonight uh I think that it was just for one item that they wanted to P for the something relating to outfitting a a vehicle possibly yes so it was it was asked for us to take a look at that and and uh it's for the police vehicle I believe that we've already received but um you know we paid for the vehicle itself but there were some additional things that needed to be added to it just to pay back yeah saw that on motion to approve the bills list please we'll move all favor please say I I thank you next is resolution number 49224 this resolution would for the contact for the North Franklin Swan stutterer and Corel road projects 2022 ma 056 and 2023 m a 000572 to Earl asphalt company in an amount not to exceed 347,000 so we'll be uh reaching out to our Earl pretty quickly I'd like to get this work underway uh and I'd like to acknowledge that you know doing work on North Franklin Street this year is going to be uh a little tricky um the job will probably take nine to 10 days from start to finish uh and uh I'm mindful that we are having some increased traffic uh on North Main Street because of the bridge work um but we'll do our best to uh to get this moving quickly uh before the summer uh and uh uh you know I'll keep everybody updated once we've had a meeting that Earl about timing uh the next resolution is resolution number 50-22 this resolution of the city of Lambertville and the county of H New Jersey authorizing the sale of 8,352 th000 principal amount of a general obligation bond series 2024 and authorizing other matters related there too just a few things about this I think are important to highlight so probably every well maybe everybody understands that we pass ordinances to borrow money to do work uh and from time to time we uh decide that it's a good moment to roll those over permanent financing uh and that's what this resolution seeks to do but a couple of a couple of key facts about this that uh you know in terms of our planning at the finance committee I think her Germain to the discussion and we help hopefully uh you know explain kind of why now and and what the advantages are um so a couple of things so our debt service will drop next year 2025 by $485,000 so in 2024 our debt service is projected to be $11.11 five million and then in 2025 it's projected to be $630,000 that's why we're doing the bond sale now in part because the first payment will be due in 2025 which is in line with the drop off so it doesn't overburden us you know at a time when you know this is actually a good time to to to do that um and I would also know that since we're doing the bond sale now we will not have to pay a note principal payment in 2024 and that's going to have an impact on our budget this year of uh we'll save the city $173,600 this year in our in our budget so that's great um and uh just just to go over what we talked a little bit about I think it's maybe the January meeting back in uh um December 31st uh of 2023 our ban and unfunded totals was 10,881 46 but since January we canceled 850 just over $853,000 and we're paying $883,000 with thema that was received by the city so that brings our our bond sale amount uh down to 8,3 52,000 um just a couple of further notes about that um you know whatever money we we may receive from the sale of property whether it's the smaller lots that we've been trying to sell now for a couple of years or whether maybe the proceeds from a sale that might happen up at the H Park uh that money will down will also be used to pay down the debt uh as will uh dot grants for the set ofer Swan and Corel is $185,000 so we will have some additional funds to pay down the grants and also Alo there will be a premium that comes with this fond that we can uh you know work with the finance I'm not prepared to say do with that premium but um it's likely that part of it will be used to pay down the debt uh and some of it may go into debt service um so reserve for Debt Service so that's why we're doing all of this and I don't know if anybody on the council has any questions about it no we're good okay and I would entertain a motion resolution number -224 okay okay all in favor please say I I I motion carries unanimously uh the next resolution is resolution number 51-22 it's a resolution to accept and authorize the Grant from the state of New Jersey for storm water management Che and that's for activities in the amount of $750,000 so this uh grant that we received will be used uh in the coming probably in the coming years offset cost associated with uh our reassignment to the tier a we haven't used very much of it at the moment we've used it for some engineering a little bit of video uh video recording of a a a storm Sol pipe and um a tablet and the T yeah the tablet for uh mapping this the inlets and outfalls so um you know I've said to the council I've said to councilman segman I'm happy to make this uh to to the council I'm happy to show those dispersions are as they happen um if the council wants a monthly report or a quarterly report on that I'm happy to provide it um so uh that's uh that's that have any questions about that um I have 750,000 75,000 did I say 750,000 yeah wish thinking wish yeah yes I was about to take a Saturday mean we get spended on that 75,000 what the record sh once again oh I was impr yeah just adding zeros left and right here all right um with that clarification noted motion to approve the resolution so second fav please say I thank you uh next is resolution 52224 it's a resolution to authorize the mayor to sign a license agreement with uh Houston mdl and lsri holdings for an encroachment of a RightWay for the installment of a pole or power so this is a um uh lamberville station wants to run an additional line uh and put in a pole on their property um this is just kind of an agreement that that we allow them to put the poll the line over right away it's pretty standard the opal uh drafted it and and back and forth and um that's that's all I to say you know where the poll is yeah the poll I didn't we didn't include a map but it's going in the um the parking lot um along um what's the name of the road there Station Court Station Court yeah so have the large parking lot where the the old feral gas site is it will be on the I think it'll be on the southern southwestern corner of that lot on their property I thought I did upload the map no no well if you did I didn't say it said I'm sorry I had but that's now you explain where it is so okay uh any further questions motion to resolution second all in favor I motion car oh excuse me um announcements uh Convenience Center hours as noted uh March 16th and Wednesday March 20th April 6th and April 20th from L to no and W say April 17th from 3 to 5 a few things to uh to discuss um so I've already offered the update on the feasibility study I've already sort of spoken to the road projects um if we move forward with the bond ordinance at our March 21st meeting then we will have the city engineer uh go out and Survey do the survey work for Sou Franklin and Church Street churches because that wasn't in the resolution Church wasn't mentioned if that's where the money is well it's it's not in we haven't we haven't done that yet okay so that's that's additional to the resolution that we no we haven't we haven't we haven't bonded for it for right so that so we did road projects you submit the Grant in 2022 received in 2023 2023 will be received in 2024 so there so it's 2022 and 20 2 23 grants and now we're working on the 2024 oh okay so good got it's been submitted passes then we'll have the money in the bank to move forward with the survey work um and the resolution to award a contract after the survey work is done for South Frank South Franklin and church oh South Franklin and church okay okay oh this is for North Franklin yeah yeah this is for North Franklin um Sparkle week I don't know I brought the here thank you so last year uh I had the impression the sparkle week went on for like two months I don't know about anybody else felt like it went on and on and on and I think the timing of it was uh a little problematic um so you know we've had a number of conversations about this and uh I'll try and explain this and and and we'll see what you guys think um so Cindy help me out here if I if I begin to alter so last year residents were able to put their items out a week before the pickup date and items that did not get picked up by other uh did not necessarily get taken on the day because they were bulk because they exceeded the bulk right well so you put your items out last year you had to decide whether you're taking them in or you're going to get at a permit people kind of wavered and left them out for longer because it wasn't really clear to them and then finally when they did come in about a month had passed before Public Works really got the permit and went out and picked it up yeah I thought it was pretty confusing last you couldn't really participate being a fan of Sparkle week huge fan right and U you know curious what spark really cost like how we can you know it is a great tradition you know that I I really do you know there there's a value to Traditions so my kids would now you know like they don't really care but but you know it's one of those things that like next to our logo we should have sparkle week so I'm like kind of like trying to find a way to really have we made movies about the old Sparkle we or or how we you know a new procedure I'm open to hearing because last year I never go it it was confusing absolutely confusing last year and I'll just say one more thing before I let you guys sort of go on I think my recollection is that uh the first year of Co I don't remember it was 19 or 20 that sparkle week was the sparkle week end of all Sparkle weeks because everybody was at home every basement every I cleed out I I rode around on my bike I just could not believe the sheer volume of stuff it was unbelievable and it cost C I don't know we could go back and find the cost I want to say $116,000 that seems conservative yeah I mean anyway I think I think the what I remember I was like oh may fall I can't believe you having this conversation better you than me but here I am three years later having this conversation you know I think that there was a sense at the council at that point that that was that was too much for the city to handle too much for the public works to handle Etc right and so we you know we struggled over the last three years trying to find a little bit of balance so you know I'm not close off to the idea that you know we we should we should have this conversation the way this is being proposed at the moment is that residents would put their items out for Sparkle week starting on a certain dat during the week the DPW would go by and if it was something that was going to generate a bulk a bulk fee um they would put a sticker on it and and so say say there was a table and uh and it was it was going to generate Bel fee and they put a sticker on it somebody could still take that table but if they if if somebody hadn't taken the table by the end of the week then that Resident would know they either have to take the table back in or or get a bul permit fee for it before the before the pickup on the next week so it's a it's an idea to kind of shorten the time frame that stuff is on the stream um and and the premise behind that is you're allowed for 40 pound bags or containers a week so a lot of people don't put that out so why should they have to pay for something light like a good vacuum cleaner or something like that if it's included yeah yeah and I think it's confusing that what's supp you know like the right look people every day sometimes this you walk down the street and there people like put out this stuff you know like oh here's like a you know a rack a box of shoes and it's like it's Sunday afternoon but you know yeah and you know and then it comes back in but I find even that s confusing like because you you know like what can you put out and get picked up and then what can't anymore maybe like we could go to I'm just like three four so no mattresses you know no couches you you know um limited you know like because those things are like huge you know so I've had people use it during Sparkle can I come and bring you know I live three times a away couch and put it on your block no couches are a lot like you know maybe like a holster you know stuff chair like you know table you know smaller table and with chairs you know like there there's a big gap between that if those are I don't know what the costs are so if you eliminate like bigger things and allow people to put out more stuff you know because I you know sometimes you want to get rid of I don't know if you but you know get like boes of stuff in your basement it's not nothing you know horrible but you know you want to put it out like maybe you know what you know the kind of you know I don't know to at least eliminate the big item so you don't have that bulk issue as much well and it also help if we did identify something like that you know you have different people on Public Works in a different truck and one might think well I'll throw this away and the other one might think oh no they got to pay the same item so it would help to clarify that piece of it oh to to are you saying to to eliminate certain items that people are putting out because they know it's coming and but they would the way the system worked last year is they wouldn't they would tag it so are you saying that they can't not saying but suggesting that we should eliminate what can be picked up during Sparkle week I think it's or or or make it make it more defined yes just more defined biger you know chair put out a PL you know if you had for I don't know what you know we'd have to really see what usually what it is but you know you know I I would think mattresses and box springs and couches and and um chairs you know chairs are are a big and you can't put out Electronics right I like that idea I we could use the trash list and and work down it well it certainly takes the stereo yeah right it certainly takes the the weight aspect for the for the people that are picking it up down to a one person rather than three people picking up with you know a huge couch which which is disposal yeah exactly right well we 15 20 big couches you better go to hand more of right you know I think the B trash permit works pretty well throughout the year um yeah and we'll talk about that in a few minutes yeah just to clarify it a little bit we don't want to like raise fees we just it's really just clarification well I oh go ahead no no I think we should look at it okay let's look at it let's look at it a whistle we give you a whistle well the uh I will I will say on Sparkle week is um there were several area mean I I think I called the mayor more during that week about stuff that was left on the street that had nothing to do with Public Works it's just people didn't know and they just put all this stuff out all right I like this we're going toop the discussion but I'm going to forward everybody to trash list and we this the 21st maybe with some answers yeah I I think we can make it easier sorry and the other point is I don't think we should start it on the Sunday of Shad uh that's the Sunday of shadfest what is the first day of the proposed day to start putting things out for collection Yeah well yeah I think I just move it to Monday I think there's enough going on in town on Sunday of shaes I put books out well there's a different there's a different thing about putting things out doing sh us because maybe someone will take take them right but as far as officially starting putting out stuff even if it's in zone one or two and I'm not quite sure what zones they are just wait until Monday no I got May no matter what we decide let's come to the conclusion that we will not start on scat fund fine done okay thank you now Saturday better more to follow let's see so Municipal fees cind run through this you don't sure so it's been a long time since we um updated our return check fee actually I don't think it's ever been updated um and you know we kind of talked about this a little bit in the finance committee and nobody really wanted to raise it much Beyond 25 but when you think about the amount of time staff puts in in collecting a bounce check you know I think 25 is really doable um same thing with tax map revision fee we um started that in 2014 to update the tax map um and we charge $150 per lot when they do that so raising that and given the the um thought of all the uh increase in you know um in fees that we pay to Engineers Etc Mak making it to 125 per lot I don't think would be terrible C can you explain why people do do the revisions well you have to do it first of all but we the city has to update our tax map and so this money would come to offset the fees that the municipal fees they actually would be paying us the fee that our engineer would charge to take one lot that was subdivided and make it now two and it's it's it it subdivisions yes have uh have brought the brought these uh yes brought the prices up so someone does a subdivision they should pay what it costs for us to do it that's right yeah yeah so so that one and then um facility use fees um right now we charge $25 per use and we ask for a $250 deposit which is returned if there are are no damages and and I have to say notw ever since 2011 we have not had anybody damage any of our park so we've been very lucky but it's used the Justice Center um it's used by HOAs um we we get a lot of request for it local nonprofits they don't charge a we don't charge them the $25 um do we get uh security we do get the security deposit and we do get the Certificate of Insurance um and I know that people want to keep it low for residents because you don't want to charge them twice because they are paying taxes right right but we have people from other communities like last year we had a business Community from Pennsylvania that used cavalo Park a couple times for a picnic picnics to um you know to host their staff and to do some meetings and you know um I just wonder if we shouldn't charge a non-resident fee like other municipalities do the same fee that what so we'd have to figure out what would be correct and I did put this in front of parks and wck who thought it was a good idea but had no uh recommendations so you know I know some of this maybe we're not ready to move forward on but you know if we are we'll add it to the next agenda we we also have a eight acre part that people may want to use so as well for events and so and be and be from out of the area the the one thing that I don't like about it is um you know we rent to cavalo park my son's birthday party insurance and you got to pay for that and some homeowners policies used a lot of them would apply really does not now so that's an added cost um so I I am in favor of not charging residents um as much for that because one they've got to pay for the Certificate of Insurance which even though I don't like we do need we can't take the risk that the property is going to be damaged so um I would prefer not charging the residents for that but I think a non-resident obviously I think you know a small fee uh because obviously it's taking up ability for residents using it too that's the other thing like if this non-resident coming in that means residents who have paid taxes aren't able to use it so I do like that idea can you talk about the Certificate of Insurance yeah what what when you when you go for a certificate of one somebody not just you go first C typic of insurance because I know it's required for a lot of events that week even Shad Festival yes the uh the but does the city have an underlying policy that covers liability or is we do we do well that's part of the che but we I mean we we pay too so in in exchange for us you being part of this collaborative you uh je they want us to have this because it's easier and it's better for uh the people that rent in to get the insurance that way if there's an issue there their insurance policy purchase is going to pay it and the taxpayers aren't going to deal with any mess okay so it's necessary but I mean how many how many you know I think my son was three-year-old of sign how many threey olds birthday parties do have Dan very few but so um and it's public property you know we we need to take that uh we need to get the insurance to cover that risk but it was expensive to do and um you know I just think that charging ke like the um what what are we charging now $25 it's not that big $250 deposit um I would prefer not charging residents for that because because they're already paying it taxes so you know like that a non so okay you if I hear everybody correctly that we should not charge residents to $25 right but they uh and then we'll have a different fee set up for someone who's not a resident and then we'll have either way both parties would be required to get uh insurance and maybe I think I agree with all of you I think that's good uh and a deposit for damage whatever that is maybe for non-residents we consider you know a tiered or a sale you know if you've got less 25 people at 50 bucks you know I mean I don't know how parties but you know to do something by by numbers uh or or just pick a number yeah 100 bucks up well I'll go back and I'll I'll take a look at some other other municipalities in Hunter and County charge and we we'll see where that goes um yeah can I just interrup for a second yeah it's hard to hear up here but it's real easy to hear you talking to each other just saying that your voice car our voice may not carry out to you as well as we hope but your voice the way this room is set up we can pretty much to hear everything you say so in a nice way but so if I hear you correctly this is just for parks and wreck but facility use you know because we do have HOAs that use you know this facility we leave that at 25 I would say no would be charged HOA yeah pay taxes don't pay taxes ho doesn't pay taxes they don't pay taxes they don't pay taxes no but the people that live there's a difference I think so um you know the HOA is a business uh I know I understand they're passing that on to um you know the residents there uh but it is a different because it's it's different than the argument that um you know the resident wants to rent the uh the cavalo park paying the taxes so look I don't think that's going to hurt them a small fee for the homeowners association you know we're talking about how to get more people out to the parks and do SI they that's why I think we should be waiting those fees for the residents so they enjoy the things that we've B and that well not raising the fees for the residents cutting the fees for the residents to use Park right but buildings I think you make a good point and buildings are a little different right we've got the lights on sometimes the police have to come and unlock the building and lock it up so you know there are you know minimal costs involved in doing it in a building as CL of the park so you know maybe we keep the building fees what they are and the park pce do do they have to clean after they use the Justice Center supposed to be room SW those those costs add up so I would keep those um and I would make sure that what we're charging is actually reflected that might seem a little right now that I think about it um to have a police officer come here on a market and then clean afterwards um maybe we should look at just making sure you know we capture whatever they're using so we're not losing M well then a non re fundable cleaning fee or what do they call it in a hotel a uh they have a fee that pay for everything that they can't charge for otherwise so they have a uh Rec convenience fee one and for nonprofits I agree I think that's wonderful to be able to wave it I certainly would continue doing that as well all right so are these things via resolution or ordinance are they are we so this all of this is by resolution no the the only the uh facility use fee is by resolution that's right built right into the um the ordinance return check fee would be an ordinance tax map revision would be an ordinance uh but the bulk garbage permit is a resolution and so just quickly I can I can touch on that um you know there's a difference from a kitchen chair to you know a big borco Lander and there's a difference from a regular couch and a three-piece section and so what we were finding is we just say couch and so people were putting out sectional and it's really three pieces and that totally loads the garbage truck you they can't take anything more that day so um by looking at this we just want to say clarify it and say you know each thre piece sectional you know that's and will be charged like the the $25 fee should we just put length on there that might seem easiest like if it's C this length this much that way there's a love seat got a love seat then you got right we do we do have love seed in there we do we do oh wonderful um but we just wanted to like clarify some things and take the items that are maybe heavy heavier in volume and bump up the price on that like if you've got the the the $15 chair it's a wood chair you know leave that but just maybe $25 for something that's heavier the problem with measurements is that people call to do that they're not measur so they're gonna get that rightfully that we're going to say go home is at 70 in or it's a 96 in so people Li any it's much bigger well and you know clarifying an entertainment center because there are entertainment centers that are this big and entertainment centers that are this big so we've been trying to work with Lester and his group because they're out there seeing it every day to try and transfer that to to the bulk rate and I think our bulk rates are very reasonable honestly and if you P out somebody picks it up you can go get a refund which has happened a number of times is that right out somebody picks it up and I go and I get my refunds down off with your friend um so we'll work on that for we'll work on that yeah absolutely thank you for doing that I think we've got five here right we got the vibe we do for sure all right uh just a note about uh post ordinances so we are working on a valley parking ordinance thank you councilman stman uh and council president yeah Lambert for getting going uh it's been reviewed by Cindy and Lindsay it's been reviewed by Bill Opal I've taken a look at it uh needs some winnowing I think um what some needs some some parsing coming down a little bit here and there so that's a good word too well the yeah I don't care if the smoke cigarettes ordin yeah the the that we used as a one of the models was Princeton and it's Princeton is much more is a stricter downtown yeah they have to comb their hair and wear jackets yeah there was there was a lot of requirements that uh you know that they put in there that we NE not necessarily need to include an or so it's expect to have a lot of eyes on it yeah all right we're work we're working on it um all right uh we'll have our second public participation period same same thing before 3 minutes name and address uh Paul Stevens 39 Cory uh I have a comment about the gentleman earlier that talked about want to know what was happening withh property um look up is engaged as anybody in this I've come multiple times the beginning of last year you started off by saying that it's going to be a priority for uh the coming year in 2023 it was going to be a priority going to develop a plan and everything we're going to hear about it um I kept asking for a plan there were times where there were ordinances to uh put money to get money for Grants uh from the county and I got up here and said I want to know what is going to be encumbered if we accept this grant I was told oh this is just to apply for the grant it'll be later and apparently you know this has happened with the wildlife fishing game thing because I just heard uh from the comment there that now we're encumbered by what we can do with this because we've accepted that Grant I didn't even know there was any possibility of the fishing Wildlife grant that well let's what well time out let me finish now okay um and so I agree with the gentlemen there hasn't been a lot of public discussion of any progress that's been made I haven't seen a lot of it there's not been a holistic plan put together we uh spent money to get a uh some professionals in here to come up with some possible uses of the property never I don't recall hear anything more maybe I missed it I I mean I make a lot I come to a lot of meetings I don't make everyone so I'm just saying it's not as clear that it's been a a public discussion about what's going on or that we even have or that people should know that there's a big overwatching plan where we're going to do this this and this to the property all that I know about is we're renting out the homestead to uh fisherman smart Okay uh as far as Sparkle week goes I mean look people are going to leave it out there and hope they get it taken uh well if you want I mean have people come in and get their tags like you say and give them a refund if it doesn't go but if there are things that don't have a tag after a week double them out it's going to cost them to have it taken off all right do something I mean because what I heard was Sparkle week causes more than what our normal fees are going to be because we have to make multiple trips so on and so forth we have AC those speed all right for couch and maybe we need to divide up a little bit more I don't know but I mean I was actually looking at the Fe structure the other day I'm gonna have to get rid of a toilet okay I'm gonna come in and I think it was $15 so you'll see me next we okay anyway that's my comment on that I think there are creative ways to do this uh to get people to pick up their stuff I mean you know it's nice to be nice about things but after a while you know people do have responsibilities and uh we have ordinances too okay thank you can I respond we're gonna go anyone else anyone online there are no hands raised okay I have a motion close public comment all in favor I cman several years ago there was was um a a plan it wasn't really a plan but it was suggested uh to do a site plan of the entire property a holistic plan and come to some conclusions about what you know what will be done on that property uh between then and now we have not correct me if I'm wrong we have not started a holistic plan what what we're what we're doing is in the beginning stages of making sure that we uh monetize what we can monetize on that property uh which has been our Focus for a year pretty much at least right and then the the the grant came along out of I would say out of self-generate it was self-generated someone had an idea and they put it in and and couple years now got approved but to my knowledge and there's money still in some of the bond to pay for uh a holistic view of what that property is going to look like and and um and you know basic basically it uh it has not been for the open space that part hasn't been done and I'm not sure where we are in the funding from the open space and hun County and everything but the parts that are in the in the in the zones that are not part of the uh the uh Green Acres funds we have control of so we're we're focusing on on ideas that I'm sure at one point we we will present uh to the public but as far as a holistic view of you know what's going to happen with The Farmstead the log house and and historic house we haven't had a a a we haven't gone uh into the details to this point I would I would correct me if I'm wrong but I know we're not going to have a little model railroad running up on that hill just to review thank you Council uh so in uh I remember I think it was the start of 2023 so the last couple of years uh we've had conversations uh about the property we did put out an RFD for planning Services I think it was in 2023 Council decided not to move forward with that uh you know awarding a contract for planning services and you know in the end while I disagreed with the the Council on that decision uh our priorities were then pretty clearly established that we wanted to and we said this publicly that we wanted to uh subdivide uh two at least two of the two two of the buildings to sell those to pay down the debt so we've been pretty uh I think pretty pretty clear that we wanted to sell the laog cab and the far Market um and so there's that uh the the the open space is another matter right so it's two years later I've been the mayor and this Green Acres process is just moving very slowly and that's because Cindy and I are doing it you know and and working with the state but I'll give you a perfect example you know we thought we were kind of within the finish line here with the Green Acres but all of a sudden Green Acres is requiring something from the surveyors and the surveyors have to get the information from the do so now the surveyors are in conversation with the do and who knows how long that's going to take before they get the answer and then send it back to us and then send it back to acres we have been actively working on the Green Acres funding since I've been here and there are a lot of moving Parts in the city and so you know between Cindy and myself and whoever else might be able to chip in on this stuff it just moves slowly but that's been our experience when we purchased the Buchanan property that was our experience I think it took three or four years when we purchased the McAn extension that took about three four years so that we still don't have the deed to gavala park right although we got we finally did get an email but we finally got an email from the State saying that it's ours so while we well while you're correct and then we have not had uh professionals look up property and develop a holistic plan part of that is because we're busy trying to just get through the right the stuff we've already committed to the open space funding and and and we we talked about we're working behind the scenes to to to to do these other things right I I understand what maybe perceived as frustration um because it's taken a long time and there are things that are happening that are not happening in perview um but things are happening and and we're very uh we're very aware of the property coule malice hours there we encourage people to go up um and we do have money in the site plan Bond my priority here and I I I think it probably is a priority of the council is to do what needs to be done first we have to prioritize getting the the Green Acres funding the county funding and uh the other you know selling two buildings potentially so so those are my those are my first priorities and once we get with done with those we still have the land the grass is still growing the trees are still there you know we'll have to make some decisions the council at some point is going to have to we're going to have to make decisions about how we're GNA move forward with what we're going to do with the historic house barns you know and how we're going to how we're going to more proactively encourage people to use that Park whether it's adding parking I mean there's going to be they questions for sure we are working on it and I think that we've been pretty consistent about communication I AG that sorry um no I earlier the funding that I was talking about was the open space funding which is obviously the majority there's a big parcel that is subject that that we accept that money we're agreeing this area is not going to be developed and um because I thought that's what the gentleman was talking about his concern was you know we were going to develop this Pro or something and so we've taken funding that that's not going to happen um I think we all have to remember and I wanted it last year when I came on Council it takes like city government takes time and there's a lot of stuff that we have to do behind the scenes that we can't talk about till the appropriate time and so there's been a lot of work there's been a lot of dialogue uh we also have an obligation to the taxpayers to make sure if we are going to sell this that we get the right amount for too I you just can't go and list it um we've got to get appra and you know as we've gone through this yeah and so we've done that we're we're we're in the process of that and um you know we're we're working as hard as we can I think it's certainly been a priority of mine and I think everyone else on Council to subdividing and uh parcel off those two to reduce the debt that we ow and before we look at all this other stuff and we get I don't say distracted but on a tangent with that we've got to pay down the debt and so that we're doing first um so hopefully I mean there have been a couple times where we've been very close where we're going to announce it the past two or three meetings we've been very close so um hang in there and just lastly about you know encumbering the the property in any way shape or form whether it's through Green Acres funding which does have restrictions you know there are restrictions it's it's you have to have Public Access you know you have I mean there are a number of things that we're more than happy to commit to because it's a successful program and and it's good um the national Fish and Wildlife Foundation Grant I would just encourage people to read it it's on the city website and uh you know I'll speak to Mr Hollis about this but uh there's really to my mind nothing about that grant that is going to restrict people's enjoyment of the we're going to be planting a wild FL Meadow it's going to be mowed at the end of the year the sling Hill will be available there'll be a trail you know and that's only on half of the property right and we will do a succession uh planting up at the top but stream definitely needs uh buffers it definitely needs planting and vegetation so I would encourage people to to really I mean it's it's I think it's a fantastic uh Grant it's a pain in the neck I can tell you to administer I nearly pulled my hair out the last compliance meeting we had it was really one of the most tedious hours of my life and it's going to take a long time we're not going to be talking about it but and and and they called that the whole program that you have to use is titled easy grants easy Grant but it's not it's not it's not you if you want to talk about bureaucracy I get the federal government and the state government and the municipal government to kind of like which owl or salamander to protect and how it's best protected so uh hang in there and in the meantime go for walks in the park um at this point uh we close the public comment perod I'm going to entertain a motion for adjournment salute all in favor please hi hi thank you very much council members thank you for coming ladies and gentlemen