yeah good evening everyone call this meeting order at 7M and to read the statement of compliance with the open public meetings act the record this meeting is being held in compliance with the open public meetings act with a meeting notice sent to the hund county Democrat Trenton and the ler on May 154 and notice that the members of the public would provided through landable matters this meeting is being streamed live and is being recorded using the zoom meeting platform roll call yes please councilwoman Kaminsky here councilman L here councilman stman here council president Lambert here may know here well please rise for the pledge of Reliance we'll remain uh standing for a moment of silence and appreciation of everybody who's ever served on a jury thank you pleas be seated good evening everybody thank you uh for coming out tonight I appreciate uh everyone being here and being a part of this meeting um and tonight uh we are here uh to uh to discuss uh the lamberville high school Redevelopment area um we decided to add this meeting specifically for the public to ask questions uh we have all of our professionals here I'll introduce them all in a moment but uh we wanted to make sure that there was plenty of time between the introduction of the ordinance uh and the second reading for the hearing for for all of you to come and ask questions and uh share share your views um so uh uh so yeah this is meant to be just pretty much an informational meeting uh the documents have been posted to the City website uh let's know the land matters today with the link uh right on the landing page you'll find all the documents these include the proposed ordinance the proposed Redevelopment plan timeline of the development history a project narrative from K alanian and two engineering memos um and uh they start off by introducing everybody on the day uh this evening uh in well we'll go we'll start with Michael Sullivan Michael city planner um we have aan next to him also with Clark hence helping us out with for housing questions Bill o the City attorney and the Redevelopment attorney drino the city engineer uh Joseph leowski from kof homes and out here in the audience we have Brett scapanus from Dynamic engineering is going to be helping us with some of the uh the plans here basically the way this is meeting I'd like it to go is I'm going to speak for a few minutes and then really turn it over to our professionals uh Michael will walk us through a bit of History regarding the lamberville high school Redevelopment area plan as well as our fair share affordable housing requirements I'm going to ask Bill to describe you know just the the broad outline of the Redevelopment process and and a general timeline for how things go um Joseph will share information about kaban proposed plan uh sh will speak to storm water management regulations and anything else that comes up from the city engineering standpoint um after which we're going to open this up to the public for questions uh some new faes here it's really always great to see people uh come and participate in the meetings uh I do want to go through a explain a few things about how we run our public meetings here um the city ordinance allows for each speaker to have three minutes of uninterrupted time for public comment and In fairness to all speakers uh this will be uniformly apply without exception um Cindy will keep track of the time and we'll give you a 30 second warning uh when when we've got 30 seconds for remain name I would ask you take a minute to silence your cell phones um I would remind people that we we would appreciate no side conversations as my fourth grade teacher you to say you're not learning anything when you're talking so uh if you want to talk please step out into the lobby and have a conversation there but really there should just be one person speaking in the room at a time that's important to me uh deor is important I think that uh deor it's how we offer respect for differing views and it's also how we offer respect for the work of your governing body and it's professional so I'm a little bit of a stickler about that kind of thing so keep an eye out on it uh and I'll do my best to run a nice smooth meeting and answer everybody's questions and make sure everybody's voice is heard um the meeting will end by nine o'clock um can I just get a show of hands roughly about how many people wish to speak just so I have an idea of what we're and I'm not holding anybody to this I just wanted to kind of get a sense in the room thank you and Cindy how many people do we have online 22 okay that's a good number also take a moment to introduce the council for those of you who are unfamiliar with some of them we have council president Lambert councilwoman Kaminsky councilman Li and councilman Stegman and our the brains of the operation over there at the far end C Cindy Iggy who uh really The Man Behind the person behind the screen right so uh thanks everybody so just a couple of things for me before I turn this over to the professional so as everybody knows I've been mayor for just about two and a half years now um and and and I just wanted to talk a little bit about this through my perspective and my experience so just before I was sworn in in uh December uh December 16th to be exact a couple of weeks before I was sworn in the governing body vote is a table ordinance number 29- 2021 that was to approve Callan the calian P pilot agreement for the Redevelopment of the police station site so I was sworn in on January 4th and two days later I had my first call with the judge and fair share housing uh and it was a felt like a momentous call and I was I was pretty nervous to tell you the truth and the first question we talked about was the police station site and what kind of happened there uh the second question is what's happening with Academy Hill so uh from that first call two days after I was sworn in I've met with the judge and fair Sheriff 15 times got all the dates right here I explain the dates I went through them at our last meeting I w't do that again um over the course of the two and a half years uh of meeting with the judge there's been and fair there's been a lot of conversation about uh this particular site and the the the development the Redevelopment of it um in March of uh 2022 with my first email March 4th from Kian uh about potential opportunities to work together and we had our first inperson meeting on March 25th of 2022 so that's going about two more than two years just to give you a sense of the magnitude of how much work it's been has happened to to get us to this point which is really in many ways kind of a starting point right um there have been 152 email chains U many of those have had a dozen or more emails only so there's been scores and scores of emails um the council has met in Clos session three times in 2022 seven times in 2023 and two times in 2024 in regard to this uh matter so there's been a lot of conversation there's been a four or five different plans that have been submitted uh really a a tremendous amount of thought and and uh hard work has gone into getting that to this point of EX and just lastly I'll note that in uh August 17th of 2022 uh this got uh the former governing body adopted resolution 159 2022 which designated he and the conditional redeveloper of lamberville high school Redevelopment area and that's a designation that we have just continued to uh continued with uh until now so that's just a little bit of background from my um from kind of you know my perspective and what I'd like to do now is really just kind of turn this over to the professionals to each sort of speak to their respective parts of this and then we'll open it up for questions so I'm gonna I'm gonna start I'm ask Michael to start first and give us a little history about the background and also the affordable housing sure for the record I'm Michael Sullivan my principal Clark k h planning architecture landscape Architecture Firm in Trenton and we are acting as a city planning consultant um I'm going to go through some history uh then I'm going to talk to you a little bit about how this plan fits into the overall housing plan for lamberville talk about the difference between the 2020 adopted Redevelopment plan um then I'll explain a little bit about why it's important in this context so bear with me can everyone hear this need to be closer um so Redevelopment of lville High School site is a long-term proposition it's been in the context of lville AFF by housing plan since 2015 and it began uh in that context because of the 2015 Supreme Court decision the new Supreme Court decision Mal for decision and that decision as a reminder um basically ruled that COA housing is dysfunctional no longer function and it shifted the enforcement of each municipality constitutional obligation to provide the ability for to the courts it's the big um in response to that in 2015 the C filed a declaratory judgment action seeking immunity from the courts until such time as they can prepare a plan that would comply with the the Mandate um um after that happened in 2015 the city designated this site as a Redevelopment area because it was one of the larger more vacant properties where you could accommodate the oral housing and they did that for the purposes of planning housing to satisfy um their constitutional obligation um in 2018 the city had their first settlement agreement with the or room settlement with fair housing center uh that said yes this is a good plan you have a a sketch plan for how you're going to do this now go forward and develop your F plan um in that s it required lville High School to produce 67 Market R tow houses 44 market rate apartments and no less than 28 affordable apartments for a total of 139 drilling so that's in 2018 in 2018 in order to facilitate this um the city uh designated designated redesignated the the High School site as a condemnation Area Redevelopment area and that means that the power of eminent domain could be used by the city if necessary and it was done to uh try to make it a more uh feasible opportunity for affordable housing um in 2018 the city adopted the 2018 hous plan element fair share plan which included the lamberville High School site with all the units that we talked about for in 2018 the city then adopted the Redevelopment plan for the High School site which has the same unit count that it had in 2015 uh and 2018 in the settlement agreement um in 2019 the owners of the property Tri litigation against the adoption of the development plan um and so there was negotiations and then in 2020 the city came to an agreement with the owner and with the court and there was a amended settlement agreement and in terms of that amended settlement agreement 2020 required that the condemnation power be removed from the site um and so the city did that and they adopted an amended 2020 housing plan element and fair share plan the 2020 housing plan element fair share plan maintained the same unit count on the uh the High School site um from 20 20 to 2022 the city began uh trying to work and find a developer who would develop this property uh consistent with the yield count for residential units um that were add in the housing plan and in the settlement plan um and uh there were several that were in in the in the running um but ultimately in 2022 koban was the the development they sell on that began a period between 2022 and 2024 where we are today of working with Kenny Manion to understand what how they could develop a site what the impediments of development were and what the density and the unit counts needed to be um so that we could go back and amend the Redevelopment plan if necessary to accommodate and that's exactly what happened uh at K work through the problems uh and opportunities of developing on the um they prepared concept plans these concept plans were reviewed um and commented on and there was back and forth um but ultimately um the the city agreed to a certain concept plan and those concept plans were used to develop the standards that are in this plan today and so in 2024 on May 16th the amended how plan differ from the old plan well I said um there's an increase in units okay the original 2020 Redevelopment plan had 139 toal dwelling units with 28 affordable units this 2024 plan allows up to 200 dwelling units and allows for different they allow for stack town houses which were not allowed before but it also mandates the provision of production of 40 uh affordable uh housing units so it's an increase um this plan is different because it contains realistic conceptual site plans that have been in a sense pre-engineered with knowledge of survey knowledge of site conditions that were not utilized in the 2020 so it's a it's more detailed in terms of it understanding and Analysis uh and what's required um on the site by the Redevelopment plan uh and those conceptual site plans also in the in the plan as a guide to the planning board because the the Redevelopment plan requires substantial consistency with these plans there's going to be no surprises when this C of a planning for and that's important it mandates the creation of conservation areas which the previous plan did not do anything that's not being disturbed is going to be required of being a conservation easement there's there's a requirement for monumentation there's a requirement that there be adequate posting of signs facing inward uh towards the development to make sure there's no incursions from the the homes that are ultimately built there so you know people putting trampolines and and wood piles in the conservation um it anticipates an appropriate location for pable water infrastructure if necessary to be located on site rather than on a public site within the site development framework it also contains realistic architectural press for each of the unit types that are uh proposed and permitted in here so that and those were worked out by the city uh and massage so that there's an understanding of what the buildings will look like U rather than having very detailed architectural standards there are architectural standards in there but rather than having detailed architectural standards and not knowing what you're going to get you're going to see what they what you're going to get in the requirement that the building be substantially consistent with these um the next thing I want to I want to talk about is how does it fit within the C approv housing plan settling well um the number of units that the municipality is responsible for is 137 units within the third round which is we're just about to end the third round now um of those 88 units need to be actually provided as physical units um in the 2020 share plan we had 28 affordable units here with uh 22 bonus credits for total of 50 credits towards our um need for units of 88 this plan increases that uh so that we now are providing U 65 crits from the site uh and it will also allow us to uh generate credits that we couldn't get from other U development so it's it's an increase but it's an increase and it's beneficial to the production of affordable housing in the town and it's consistent with the uh settlement and the plan it maximizes uh the minimum uh it maximizes the bonus credits and it meets the minimum rental units the minimum family rental units the minimum um family units and the maximum that max out the eight restricted credits that we are eligible for without getting into too much detail um and why is it important to get this plan adopted um lberi has had immunity from litigation since 2015 which is almost 10 years um this round is ending in 2025 um the current R development plan has not resulted in a developer to build this project um and we were lucky to find a developer who was willing to explore that and U come to Lambertville and to the site um this is the last remaining compliance mechanism that has not been finalized in our settlement and it must be in place in order to receive the final judgment propose which we have a hearing scheduled in October which we want to meet um the J the Judgment propos once received will protect the city from build remedy lawsuits um which can be very disruptive nobody build remitting lawsuit is is when uh you don't have immunity and the developer comes in something in since I can provide housing and you're going to do it and here's how much I need to do it and it may be very discordant in terms of the context within which it is uh also uh you lose some control of your zoning in that respect so that's not this site as I said before represents the largest U largest number of units in any one compliance mechanism for the third round plan and um and if we were to lose the sight hold a unit it would put the city at Great risk in terms of their control over land use control over zoning and litigation uh and so this site is critical to protecting City uh the imunity um and from litigation and from unplanned development and the loss of zoning control so um hopefully that gives you history um why it's different now what that's it thank you Michael that was enough all right I'm G ask Bill to uh take over now for a few minutes so this proposed project is proceeding under the local house local re law New Jersey which sets forth a number of guidelines that allows municipality to work with a redeveloper to redevelop plighted area um back in 2015 as Michael stated then Council recommended planning board that the 16 months that this property be studied see whether they meet the statutory criteria for Destination Redevelopment um back then the the planning board conducted a hearing and found that you know after reviewing the study by the planner found that the statutory criteria later on after that planning board hearing recommending that the be delegating Council development there has been prior version of this Redevelopment plan in place it's been amended once already this current pending ordinance that was introduced on May is the Second Amendment that's been prepared in connection with the proposed reel site um if this if this um Redevelopment plan as it exists right now it'll be reviewed by the planning board to determine whether it's consistent the city's master plan if it's consistent it will come back to the Council on June 20th there will be a public hearing on the ordinance that will allow the adoption of the plan um one of the important things that Michael said was that the Redevelopment law is a tool that allows the city to maintain control over the Redevelopment process and that's exactly what's going on this Redevelopment plan this is not really a collaborative effort but it's within the cities per you to approve it or not and it it really sets the zoning um pretty well for for what the city wanted the at this site uh if the Redevelopment plan adopted in June uh the city and will begin the city begin negotiating for redevelopment and that agreement will set forth the rights and restrictions of khanian basically saying they have to construct this project in accordance with the Redevelopment plan that would be in effect and it would also allow the city to have oversight over that construction process and make sure that it's redeveloped in accordance with the plan and ultimately the you know the property is is constructed in a way where it's no longer bled it no longer would meet the criteria as an area needed Redevelopment um the redel plan sets forth I'm sorry the re agreement would set forth a number of options for the city uh such as the project schedule um it would it would impose the environmental requirements that the redeveloper have to adhere to when they're constructing the project and basically it's a bing agreement that requires the project to be constructed um as being ased city um once that Redevelopment agreement is in place the uh the Builder would have to follow the project schedule to make sure that they hit the guidelines that are set forth the project schedule is relatively detailed it requires site plans to be submitted to planning board um by a certain date it requires the planning board to hear the case by a certain date and it requires the developer to commence construction by a certain date so um as far as public approvals go going forward uh the council will have a public hearing on June 20th on this Redevelopment plan after that um once the Redevelopment agreement and assuming the the ordinance is adopted after that the Redevelopment agreement will come back to the council they'll have to adopt resolution to approve the terms of that agreement um and then the Reel will be required painite plan plan which again will allow for input on the site plans and um and what SE built there so there there's a number of steps along the way that require further approvals both this body and the plan board and we'll refer to public with regard to um I think that's that's basically the the time Lim for it can't provide sfic dates because um you know these approvals you know fact and Council needs more time to review sometimes the Builder need more time to review documents so fortunately can't provide um a specific dat but just to let you know that the hearing is June 20th on this Redevelopment plan sometime there after revelop agement will be considered so that's the procedure going forward thank you Bill turn it over to Joseph now if you want to share some of the work all of the proposed plan many and I appreciate it great thank you likewise good evening my name is Joseph vosi and I'm with Kate Manny and Holmes I've been with the company for over 30 years and I'm also a New Jersey licensed architect I thank you for the opportunity tonight to present this uh this project and on behalf of the um several of my colleagues that were not able to join us tonight I'd like to express our company's gratitude to the very productive work relationship that we've developed with the city leaders and City professionals over the past couple of years as we um uh progressed with the conceptual development of this uh of this project I won't repeat a lot of the uh the background Beyond noting that the mayor noted that in early 22 um we had a CO City to let them know that we were under contract to acquire the property uh that would be redeveloped in accordance with the lville high school Redevelopment plan during that time we had proposed modifications to the Redevelopment plan to make the property uh compatible with our um intended use as such an initial presentation to the city and its professionals which was based on feedback that we had gotten from the city back in August 20 2022 uh resulted in us being designated as conditional redeveloper um that designation I was sub to us preparing conceptual plans uh that was acceptable to the city and US entering entering into a Redevelopment agreement to implement that plan um we then started preparing the conceptual plant um we had develop conceptual site plans as well as architectural plant that as was mentioned by Mr Sullivan we had gone back and forth uh with input from from the city had resulted in what we considered to be fairly refined site PL as well as uh architectural uh designs that are representative very representative what we of what we intend to Bill based on the results of this work and with the city's input proposed modifications to the Redevelopment plan were offered and discussed with the city over that period And it culminated in um the proposed 2024 amended Redevelopment plan for the wardville high school Redevelopment area introduced by the city council and is the subject of tonight's meeting I'll provide a brief overview of the of the project as I think many are you're not aware as Mr Sullivan had mentioned um the project consists of up to 160 Market grate homes as well as 40 affordable Reven minutes um that are intended to assist the city in meeting meeting its round three affordable housing obligations our Pro consists of two types of of town home the first is a three story town home size approximately 2300 square fet with four bedroom and two car garage that an example of the typical elevation of that town homeall is shown to my left the second town home that we'll be offering Mr C described as a as a correctly described as a stack town it's a um three story condominium living over living um town home consisting of two um two Town Homes per module the lower each of them um will have a dedicated private onear garage the lower home is a two-bedroom model at600 little over 1600 square fet and the uh upper home is uh a three bedroom home at about 235 Square these these consist of our Mark rate homes that H Manan will be will be offering in addition there will be affordable rentals that will be constructed in a single three story building containing a mix of one two and three bedroom apartments these will be offered for rent rates in accordance with the state requirements for very low low and affordable and moderate income household we at haban are the overall redeveloper of the property for the installation of the improvements construction and sale of all Mary homes and we intend to partner with a affordable housing developer the M organization which specializes in building and maintaining affordable homes throughout Jersey and the United States the Michael organization will maintain and operate through building the affordable housing building once it is completed the overall development will involve the installation of new privately owned roads internal to the development along with all of the necessary breeding underground utilities sidewalk parking storm water facilities landscaping and lighting consistent with the requirements contained in the amended Redevelopment plan in addition B recently enacted enhanced St water regulation and forced by the Delaware power and Canal commission careful attention will be paid to developing a fully compliant and safe drainage plan for the Redevelopment area this will include many of the drc's approved green structure initiatives and infiltration options for accommodating s Bo runoff existing sanitary sewer and portable water facilities will be expanded and installed in service of the new development as Mr s noted a protected perimeter buffer and conservation areas are going to be incorporated in the design of the community which will be de restricted and maintained in a natural state all common elements of the community will be owned and maintained by the homeowners association governing documents prepared as part of the public offering statements for the community will include a master de to require adequate maintenance of common elements and sufficient budget reserves for the repair and replacement of all those features over time it is estimated that the total development value of this Redevelopment initiative will exceed 9 million that concludes my overview of the project and I thank you again for the opportunity to present our proposed project to the community thank you dou I want to go on record as saying I don't think I've ever was in a meeting with you without saying St water at least six times thank you mayor as noted as noted we first started my name ISO I work for Gil War Associates we are the city engineer myself I am the city engineer I am also the planning board engineer and the zoning board engineer so with that said um I believe there was a a good amount of history that was already stated about the project and this isol of The Upfront designs and work that needs to be completed in order to cre compare the amended Redevelopment plan and have that plan adopted uh engineering wise there's some preliminary engineering that has taken place uh one of which is the storm water management system and that is because when you have concept plans which I stated before that's where we're at at this point with those concept plans you the developer still needs to be able to locate all of the soo management features to ensure that is ample room for those features to be installed so looking at the plans you will see there I believe currently six uh water quality basins proposed as well as one large St Water Management Basin to be installed um now with that said the actual engineering of all of those systems has not taken place currently however once it done the developer will have to follow a number of guidelines and requirements the city is currently going through an an ordinance adoption ordinance number 62024 which is to amend the zoning ordinance uh for Article 15 storm water management um this is a requirement by the county state want the city to update their current storm management so that it meets all of the state Federal Regulations actually beets or exceeds there are sections that will exceed the federal the the city has the right to they can't go less than what the state requirements are but they can increase and so there will be increases and or the same for uh the new ordinance and so once that ordinance is adopted then the developer will have to follow those requirements um as part of that they will also have to as noted by um Joe they will also have to follow the drcc Delware American Canal commissions requirements since they are in refie Z be of other area and so the the St management system just to give a little bit of background on what will have to be handled as part of the store management design they the developer will have to measures that will have to be met will be to provide for erosion control which is always a concern that is when for anyone who might not understand what that is that is basically when the ground uh once you remove the grass you remove with parking any type of impervious coverage you're exposing the Earth and so once it rains then the soil can the runoff that comes from that site will now contain soil and call 7 runoff and that is what we have to prevent from happening so that way none of the properties down slope will be infected another item that will have to be controlled is what they called ground water recharge so the increase in volume that is created by the new impervious which is impervious in any material that storm water cannot or say rain cannot actually penetrate through the additional volume of run that is created by that by that additional purpus that has to be controlled on site and is is to be recharged back into the ground um that helps with recharging the groundw table so that way Wells up in that area will not dry out um and it also helps to prevent having a larger volume of water leaving the site and having the potential for Ood for flooding or any kind of adverse armm to Downstream properties and another two the last two items that will have to be controlled is the storm water runoff quantity control they call quantity control which is similar to what I was just saying where the volume of water leaving the site so the VIN order leaving the site after the development can not exceed the VIN water leaving the site in the existing condition so they have to control that and that is what these Basin are for and lastly is water quality and one of quality is to ensure that contaminated Waters do not leave the site and create any kind diverse Farm to again down bring poage or water courses that the runoff Tim we drains to so the the systems that will be installed they will have to follow the green infrastructure best management practices which is uh all guidelines that are produced by the state uh there is with it's referred to BMP manual and that is online and that is uh Follow by allers throughout the state um there is also what you call impact development requirements um we'll try to meet them as much as physically possible that relates to natural resources which is one of the other St water features that has been currently analyzed by the developer is in in order to remain as much as physically possible out of any steep slopes that exist on the site out of the to try to remain out of as much of the windlands as possible and so the layout that is in front of you today takes all that into account it uh it reduces the steep slopes disturbance and the wood leads disturbance um so one of the next steps that will take place is developer will with as long as the Redevelopment plan is adopted and project moves forward then the next steps some of the next steps would be the developer would have to go out and he would have to do du diligence testing to exactly where D recharge can take place throughout the site um of to know what soils been working with and how the site itself to ensure that everything that is currently proposed in the concept plan will work um so that's one of the next steps that will take place then based on that the actual full design of the storm water management system along with all of the other engineering aspects of the development the road base the sidewalk um the um retaining walls and the retaining walls and other features of the site all of that will then be prepared I rep something and then it will come in as preliminary site PL submission to to the planning order and that and so it comes in as two phases there's a preliminary and there's a final so plan submission and um both will be reviewed and heard by the planning board has to be approved by the planning board and um and moving on from there um just just one uh note about the still mon Control Ordinance so we we uh take this very seriously at the council level we have a sub committee that's been working on that thank you to council Comm Doug has been helping out all cool and planning board chair myself and Jeff H been working through that that this will be a topic of conversation I haven't told this haven't told you guys this yet but uh there'll be a topic of conversation for our next council meeting we'll be discussing a couple of uh potential um key other elements that will be that may be included so um we are going to be looking at that hopefully ready to move forward with it fairly soon Doug and I talking about several things kind of over the last few days and I had a chance to update everybody about what those uh those proposals are for that ordinance but um we will be forthcoming um anybody have anything else that they want to good we're GNA move into the public comment period here U like to remind everybody that I would ask you unless you have mobility issues please step up to the Podium here state your name and your address we've got three minutes uh of time Cindy will kind of keep an eye on the time I will ask that at three minutes that you please step away um if we have time enough we can go around again but I want to make sure that we have a good representation of people here in the room we'll start off with be six or seven people here and then In fairness to all the 22 people online 36 36 people online we'll take some questions from them so we'll kind of go back and forth as I said got about another hour and 20 minutes uh we will have this same cast of character so to speak at the uh second reading uh in June and um there will be information shared planning board meeting on June 5th yes Jun June all right so uh are there people in the room who who have a question or a concern did the they should line up don't you think yeah why why don't you line up that's time B and I'm just going to say that uh you know I'm really going to direct have on the people to direct their questions to the Professionals for the most part uh these people with expertise and although we've all been very involved in this process we want to make sure that everything that's said is absolutely correct so go ahead Chef tile 33 Wilson Street someone who's been involved in these types of issues for over 50 years um my first planning board was going be 50 years PR anyway I just want to start off and just say that I I think 20 days is not enough time this is a major project it's the biggest project I think this town has ever seen and to get it done and get a ordinance through in 20 days is just not enough time I could sit here for three hours and do questions but I only have three minutes and and the reason is because you're talking about one of the most environmentally sensitive sites in town in an area area that sits right above some of the worst flood damage that the city has ever seen and whatever happens up there is going to acate that situation and make it worse you cannot mitigate for it when you take down 1,400 trees because that's what's up there just on 10 acres that's about an estimate up there each tree can hold up to 500 gallons of water three inches of soil in a forested area can hold in a 10 acre area up to a million gallons you're going to hear Engineers talk about design guidelines and bmps bmps do not work on steep slopes over 30% and at best case scenario on flat land are about a 50% green infrastructure doesn't work on more than an inch and a half rainfall so you're going to hear a lot of numbers but those numbers are numbers they're on models they're not reality when you build on steep slopes and you knock down a lot of trees secondly I haven't heard any talk about off track improvements you've got a narrow road going in there and you're going to need emergency vehicles and school buses you have 200 units that's based on just average standards about 500 people probably about 80 school children maybe more it's talk about 50,000 gallons of sewage 50,000 gallons of water you're going have to build a water tank who's going to pay for it you're going to widen that road who's going to pay for it you're going to take land from people who's going to pay for you're going have to put a traffic light at 179 who's going to pay for it that's the problem look um you know you're talking about 2, to 2200 car trips a day that's a lot of impact um and and so I think we really need to take our time and I'm not saying we shouldn't do it may we scale down we may look at some other sites in town to try to move some of the numbers around I know you're in a difficult position because by me they just built 14 luxury houses with that one without that one affordable one site should have been an affordable housing site and it wasn't done U and that's true for other places in town so now we're have we have this in front of us but what's it going to look like in the view shed you can talk about how high are the retaining WS you're cutting down a forest you're building on a mountain and you got three story buildings on top of how visible it's going to be but my biggest concern and you talk about a conservation ement that's all steep slope areas that you know you're GNA have to be a billy goat or a skier to use um what's that impact going to be and my biggest concern for the people living down below three minutes will they need snort because or their houses will they float away this is a High School production this is something more important it's important more time we spend clapping stions and but last time we're going to have answer questions to pleas I understand that people are passionate about this but I'm going to ask really for silence while people are speaking in this room it's important thank you um yes so my address is 8 Grant Avenue and next up at conon Hill and I think the hill is going to be really impacted by this and I think the reason is because of the roadways and I'm also wondering how I mean it's a very narrow road for high school so what are the plans for the road you know to bring people in it take people out and I work B it changing the character of H Hill also which is really a very historic area in Neo so I don't know if any thought has gone to I'm sure if that has to but I don't know if there were any plans for roadways where they would be how they would the hill um so yeah I'm GNA take that as a question so if you have a question we'll we'll do our best to answer it so uh you know some people are gonna just probably say things but if you have a question let us know what the question is so it sounds like we have a question just about kind of traffic p and sure if Doug should answer that start but by saying all of those questions will be asked and will have to be answered as part of the planning board approval by Traffic Engineers and folks that specialize in very issues that uh that you're raising we will have to comp generally speaking we will have to comply with the residential site Improvement standards which is Comm only known as rsis which defines the width and the the characteristics of the of the roadways like whole path the traffic engineer that had talked in a lot more detail about impact that this community will have on the traffic okay so currently there's no firm plans for where the New Roads would be or at the conceptual design stage is where we're at now that's our extent of the roadway configuration is noted out ofite so yes in fact as a grant I always forget what the street is there the paper Street will will be paved Street Dynamics Consultants engineer K so we developed the site plan the conceptual site plan you see online up here on the board along with with the city so roadway wise if you look at the site plan 179 is along the top here so this is coming down the hill uh into town and right here uh this is Grant coming up the hill so at the northern property boundary Grant will be continue will be improved repaved uh set to the proper width W to meet rsis within the within the current right of way extended uh along to to the southern point at that extension of Grant that's where it becomes private okay so this there's existing RightWay to where I'm pointing now the rest of is private roadways interior of the site you come up Grant and on your left or to the east that's where Coral sits and so that Coral will also be improved within the existing RightWay widened paved and brought uh to a dead end essentially right at the W Amwell boundary um and and here's Allen Street so the bit of it will be improved to connect to Allen as well are we adding drainage to that as well being than for Scher I live on Church Street at Franklin Street I everyone quiet I live on Church Street Franklin Street I wanted to commend the city for the work they did this past summer on the storm water repairs there there were some collapsed um pipes and um water in the street but it rins has completely been eliminated they did a great job so want to thank you for that effort my question was you said that the um storm water runoff won't exceed the current from the site how do you know what the runoff is from that site and where were you how will you monitor it in how will you monitor on Frankl Street to see if it's gone up so when so when the stor water management is is designed there's what they call pre-existing conditions and then the post-development conditions so in the pre-existing conditions the Slate has already been surveyed all of the features have already been put on pled and so the the design engineer would look at all of those features every every land mass has a different what they call CN value so whether it's grass whether it's Woodlands or perus they they they all have different uh values to them taking all that into account they come up with a runoff value for the pre-existing condition okay and in different year storms too this this is it goes all the way up to the 100 Year stor currently the 100e storm is the maximum stor that is analyzed as part of this um that's how the storm sewer systems have to be designed they have to be designed to handle the 100 find a handle 100e storm and flow through it um but you take the pre-existing condition and so you have your run off values from there and then they have to do the same thing with what per and and they compare the two in in each of the the year storms they would they be and so the run off from the post dev devopment has to be less than the runoff from predevelopment in every year s okay well you we had a 100-year storm about a week after I bought my house and there was six feet of water on Swan Street and four feet of water on North North Union and three feet of water on Franklin Street so I'm afraid if we get another 100-year storm this year which is supposed to be a record hurricane year or next year we could end up with more water so I just don't I know if there's what is the what would happen if we find out that the the modeling was incorrect and you know being being an engineer I know the models don't always work is there esro or is is everybody just going to shrug and say hey to answer that question there is an es yes there is a maintenance bond that has to be posted at the completion of the project so the developer would be responsible for uh everything during the construction itself it's once the construction is complete then there's a 2-year maintenance bond that has to be posted so even after construction's complete which for a development of this nature it's going to take three four years at least for the development and then there's additional two years of monitoring it to make sure that everything's function correctly and there Ino adverse effects and and that would be off-site effects like if there's an unusual flood pattern on Swan Street you could attribute to that development would it be covered at that point so when when the system is when the runoff when a runoff is analyzed it actually not just aned as as a whole it's actually going to be analyzed each point what they call point of interest that the rof is actually flowing to um so where it's being captured today whether that be an inlet a head wall or if it's all just sheep flowing out to uh 179 the each of areas individually have to be analyzed to ensure that they're not increasing they'll run off to those all those points now couple of quick LS to no um a lot of the older infrastructure was not designed to the 100 gar storm uh they were designed for they were designed for much lesser that one doesn't work they were designed there we go they were designed for lesser year storms um that's one of the problems that we've been finding that's contributes to flooding unfortunately um but one of the positives is in currently Noah which is the national uh [Music] no come out with new rainfall amounts that they are that the state is actively trying to adopt as their new requirements and designers are Curr to follow uh we as the city have already hased one developer in which they did use the new NOA rainall amounts we would ask that these developers would also follow the new uh rainfall amounts produced by Noah so that would increase the store water management system to be much larger to handle the larger rain events that are occurring okay so my last question was you said before that uh there's going to be made every effort made to design the system to accommodate these projected rainfall totals if push comes to shove is a developer prepared to eliminate housing units to increase the water capacity there are we just going to say we're going to hold 90% of the water we're not losing housing units well I can't I can't speak for I know I'm just saying when push comes to S something just got to get right you can't make the you can't make the lot bigger right so that's kind of the city's responsibility to to ride her to three minutes okay do you have comment on that I will say in the four years that I've been with City we I don't believe we have ever provided R for any type of SL man okay good thank you hi my name is Mikea I'm 57 South Union Street uh just following up on some of the earlier comments focused on storm water mitigation I appreciate comments um Doug that she made but um for transparency my first question just for the clarity of everybody in the room could you point to where the high school building is relative to the storm water basin High School building is right yeah got it okay so from a plan standpoint makes sense because it'll downgrade of the develop so water is naturally going downgrade um my sincere concern is the control point of erosion and how that based on a very steep sight would contribute to erosion it's it's gonna it could potentially handle storm water and runoff I don't know based looking on that size it might have be bigger but I think it's going to exasperate the problem of erosion so what I would request in the future meetings and also to be made as public record are site sections that cut directly from the road all the way through the development and highlighting that Basin so that you can have Clarity for everybody in the room not just a plan but the steepness everybody's going to be able to visually see the steepness of the site and get a better idea my second point is just question is pertaining to this must been in part the study of to date based on Geotech and soils report and I'd ask the question what year is that report and is it the most current one available that you've been using just for my knowledge if if you know that off hand again for scet dynamic engineering uh yeah we as part of the conceptual work we did preliminary test borings on site to understand the soil profile uh both from to understand for storm water as well as understand where Rockets obviously that's going a play with respect to cut and fill and working the soil on this site so we did it for both reasons uh and we use that prary analysis to get a general understanding as to where we needed to how we can design the the basins as shown and as noted earlier there are six basins in Gray two out those are the six along with the lgan Basin there are also three underground basins as well so there's really a total of 10 basins on the site six six water quality 300 Grand and the one larger one all working in conjunction to control storm water that's that was essentially worked out based on theary finding that thank you so my concluding comment would be in addition to the site section what I would recommend being shown for the purposes of transparency is an excerpt from soils report showing exactly where the borings are because soils reports can have five boring locations or they can have 50 50 is more accurate five is loose so it's just the in the interest of transparency everybody in the room that better understands I the state is actually helping you with that question that do they force us to actually provide under the updated rules in the last few years we required to specifically test in the location of our basins now we don't have those just yet we did preliminary around get a general idea but when we come to the final design we're going to have specific borings in those Basin locations that will be part of the and that's prior to the 20day L meeting site plan thank you thank you I'm just gonna note after Julia Taylor we're GNA go to folks online so we've got four more people in the room then we'll go to uh some people online and then we'll go back to hi there e Brian to Han Street I agree with my neighbors and their concern is about the storm water run off downhill but I love the hill and I agree with two people who have already spoken about the traffic that will come up on our Hill thank you Jeff for averaging it out I came up with about 500 cars too but not just residence the consideration of delivery trucks Amazon GrubHub all the other vehicles that'll be coming up um have me concerned because your proposal states that you will provide safe and efficient pedestrian and vehicular traffic traffic circulation when I read your proposal that appears to only be within the site plan of your development and I don't see anything written about what will happen outside your site plan um I'm concerned about pedestrians walking up and down hog Street crossing with 179 when I look at additional like we have that large um development on the hill L Hill and they have apple sidewalks and a stairwell for p pedestrian to go in and out of town and that is all outside of their development your proposal your proposed development excuse me is onethird larger than what exists on lford hill and I don't see any proposed access for people to go into town NPS um on personal note I'm not sure how you're going to widen the roads my house is 66 Ines I measured it today from the corner of my house to Hancock Street I'm not quite sure how you're going to widen the roads there or my sidewalks so looking forward to your traffic study thank you thanks I will note uh and I don't know if anybody wants to comment on this particularly but we did uh we did have extensive conversations about pedestrian access uh and it's a difficult uh it's I don't know Doug do you want to take a minute to just talk about to address that question or that concern sure um so the developer and I did be out on site we were trying to to determine if it was a location to have sidewalk that would leadite and make it down to 179 um unfortunately it's one of those it can never be an ADA uh bans with Disabilities Act it can never be an adaa compliant rout because as we all know very steep going down Hancock Street in order to make it out to 179 that's that's pretty much where the most difficult section would be um we can get we would be able to get sidewalk down brand into hand that that becomes the the issue also the size of hand there it drops off on uh at least on the on on the North side all the way down if that drops off the South Side there several locations where it also has a pretty decent um drop to it um now one thing I will note that when a when the traic performs that is one thing that we will request um the planning board has has recently requested that for several other applications and so we would be requesting that here when a when a traffic study takes place it doesn't just analyze the site itself it has to analyze um in all the intersections that the site will directly affect um our office we do have a traffic engineer that work works for the city and then some will actually analyze all of or look at all different intersections that have the potential to receive traffic from the site and all those intersections will be provided to the developer and that would have to be included in the traffic study so it's it's not just the the site itself it's going to be the surrounding area when that traffic study takes place can I add um twoe study the photograph of the car in my house on Christmas morning a few years ago our house has been hit by a car twice and that's why I am really concerned about [Music] traffic um my name is Sean Ellis uh I live at 21 beler Avenue um about a block of way from um one property away from the border of that up there um I uh I agree with the traffic concerns I agree with the runoff and flood um you know flood water management concerns um but uh I'm also uh concerned about what I read in the uh Redevelopment plan about um the city landfill uh up there I don't know if that what the history of that is I don't know if anyone here knows the history of that but um one thing that uh concerns me is um that the city has uh will not take any responsibility for mitigation of any hazards that the city had put there previously um and that falls on the developer to mitigate uh any hazardous materials that might be there um and that might leak into the groundwater and the wells of the folks that are around the you know up on a hill that aren't getting public water apparently according to the plan uh and you know I do know that there's a lot of rock as um was mentioned we our house sits three feet above where it was supposed to because we would have had the blast um to go any deeper I don't know if there's basements here or you know even just the disruption of something that great um I I'm concerned about materials leaking into the groundwater um and uh I don't know what the recourse would be for if if the water became tainted and unusable and drinkable um for folks up there so that's my first question you know you know in terms of health and safety uh can anyone tell me anything about my justest second question we'll just stack them if that's okay um so uh let you know that's that that's my other people brought up my my other price so I think that's concern okay uh who wants to handle the the uh the lle uh and kind of the phase two and sort of where we are maybe build sure um so the the project that's contempla right now is to set up a two phases uh the first phase uh the affordable component the entire 40 unit affordable component will be required to be constructed um and there will also be 126 market rate town home sack town home units as part of that first phase the landfill is on the property where the second phase will go um right now it's it's private property it's it's not owned by the city the city has no mediation obligation closing of landfill is um a significant regulatory process it's expensive um and it's it's really the obligation of the property owner to do that um right now if the prop property owner doesn't do that then the second phase of the project would not go forward so I mean the first phase would go all the affordable units the city would be in compliance that's um you know that's a definite requirement under both this plan and the potential Redevelopment agreement um but phase two would be um contingent upon closing the land with the requirement so that's so phase one mentioned to the West in phase two is look here this is the land landville and so those I don't know what the D requirements are for that but it does it does it um include monitoring the water of you know the basically the oers of all of the um Wells up in that area and uh making sure that the water has not so that's not my unfortunately not my area of expertise I do have individuals Jo you want to yeah yeah what I would say is we're in the process of conducting investig environmental investigations of soil as well as the groundwater um obviously one of the uh reasons we sort of bated the site was because there was some initial indications that the landfill um closure of the landfill would take longer uh than um otherwise would be available to us if did not start phase one so we're still working through that and as as part of the the the planning board and approvals process all of that will have to be thoroughly vetted and we will not be able to build on base two if that that land build is not abstractedly both to DS local state and federal standards and and it's it's a lot I think I not going to get into now but I can provide the mayor with some information on the requirements for land closure you can make that available um it's not an easy answer so it's why answer right now I doing steeve nails I grew was born and raised in lamberville my concerns most of them have uh talk about here today my main one is the traffic and I just wonder since them on Handcock Street uh I'd like to know before you know you build the apartment so then decide traffic patterns I think we should have the traffic patterns before we build anything I mean you have to have Trucking to get up on the hill if they're going to do anything I mean War if they can't use Wasington Street that's just Narrow Street Hancock Street's your best but then how do you make the turn from Grant to Hancock that running into this lady's house so that's my main concern most of them you know he had said I just want to know when we're going to have traffic patterns to know what's going to happen so as far as the timeline goes we'll as I said we'll set forth project stand in in any Redevelopment plan that gets approved um the traffic impact study would have would be done prior to the submission to the planning board so the plan would ultim have to approve the project so the traffic impact study would have ready that hearing and you know that all that information is made available so before any construction place that so that's Tak care of could you talk a little bit Joe about what you've done so far in terms of this street WIS here of looking at some of the street widening to you know kind of lay a little groundwork of what you've been looking at yeah I mean we I'll let uh re get into the detail as necessary but but uh we looked at the the at a conceptual design level all of the track patterns that would potentially be affected by by this development not only the traffic patterns but also The Pedestrian patterns at the encouragement of of the city we as as as the engineer had had pointed out we walked uh the site to to see opportunities for pedestrian path down Hancock Grant and then Hancock so we've spent a lot of of time and effort exploring the impact not only within the site itself but be offsite um impacts the the reality is we're still at the conceptual design stage uh so other than identifying areas that say hey that's a bottleneck we would have to do some improvement there other than identifying those areas uh we intend to specifically address design the the solution present that the Sol present that solution to the planning board have it FedEd by professional staff and our expectation is bearing you know the professional staff with our Professional Engineers will evaluate the design because I agree with you we we don't want to ready fire we want to put on paper before we we build um and so that is a requirement of us and that's what we will do okay thank you I hi Julia Taylor Julia just before you do I just wanted to say one thing you know in terms of as been we even spent some time looking at possibilities down through the woods and uh and eventually discounted those because of slopes and disturbance uh and just the the length that you would be required you definitely get your 10,000 steps in walk through the woods down uh anyway so so we did look at a number of different pedestrian access possibilities please go ahead so sorry I say who I am again I'm sorry I was online before I came in I just want to make sure I didn't miss something do you know how water service will be provided to the site design engineer we're playing on public water to the site uh exact way the water is getting there is not set yet we're still we're currently in discussion with violia working with them on different Alternatives and there are different Alternatives out there right now I think it's been set in place so that's that's all I can really say okay okay um I I share many of the speakers environmental concerns that I have since being on the environmental commission first dealing with the site more than 10 years ago but the thing I want to say now just to save time is that is completely antithetical to New Jersey's affordable housing process to put a bunch of affordable units in one separate building Judy Judy we're going to go to um people online for okay so we have one person one person pant ra if you're online and you have a question please uh raise your little hand and right um so pause iPad Air that's the when what you're showing us please go ahead it's Paul Stevens 39 Cory good evening um can you hear me yeah okay uh so the uh one the question I had that Still Remains after the talk about the uh traffic and storm water management and even the water supply is uh the Sewer Supply for up there seems like a lot of units coming online rather at the same time is uh a lot uh has the LMU been brought into the discussion process on what needs to be prepared for and that sort of thing and if not when would they be brought in do you have any other questions Paul I I think that's it thank you okay thank you well from a standpoint of sewer we have taken a look we know there is sewer at the intersection essentially of Corel and Grant that we will be looking to tie into uh the size of the line is large enough for a development such as this uh so we anticipate that capacity is there we have not though gone through a formal application process at this time with the LMU right okay thank you anyone else on no one else with their hand please we don't Judy GLE and 86 North Union Street a number of the points that I was concerned about have already been raised but I wanted to just identify a couple of things to for emphasis I think that uh Jeff made the point that 20 days is not enough coupled with the number of things tonight that have said we're working on that we're getting at this we're at the design conceptual will this were this which I understand but 20 days and there's still information at the rawest way we still don't have number one and number two having been involved with various involved as a as a neighbor resident with various uh development activities in this town over the over 20 years that I've lived here I can say the planning board is too late to deal with some of this stuff that is being talked about tonight I think time is at the planning board it's too late for some of these questions to be answered understood embedded with the public and with the various elements that affect the public so I would strongly encourage that we don't say well don't worry it'll happen at the planning board because it doesn't and we know how the town has been developed lately so we know it doesn't um secondly the standards that we're talked about already once of the it's sort of a pre-existing condition kind of standard point I don't know if we're hting the Ida standards but it seems to me that's sort of a no-brainer to know that's the place we have to say this is what you have to expect this will happen this did happen so I can't tell by all of the ways in which we evaluate but I am just encouraging that we don't forget what we know for a fact and we don't forget what we know for a fact labor Hill being a being a high up development and the city being here we I don't know whether all the things people said or thought are true but I know that we have experience that we've lived through in a very real way and I'm not sure that the design ideas and the standards that come from a plugging in the algorithm and stuff will be satisfactory especially to those parts of of town that have already suffered through that stuff so I would say 20 days isn't enough um the plan board and the bigger process this is a big development this is a really big development I think more than 20 days and knowing things more than we're working on it might be an important step to take so once again I'm gonna ask everyone please are if you're not going to refrain from cing I would ask you to leave the room please we we will have deorum here I I understand your points of view but we will have decorum in this room go ahead Char salvi 63 South Union Street um I'm 81 years old I've lived here 60 years I've seen a lot of floods a lot of storms nothing like Ida because before we never had building like this on top of our Hills pattern does not absorb water I happen to be up there to see a friend of mine on high school Hill and I saw the surveyor Stakes all those big trees with established Roots which absorb the water will probably be cut down that's number one number two they talked about having City water up there and city sewer that is a rock that you're building on how are you going to blast and not affect all the existing Wells on that Hill that's question and if this get through we'll have to hire more police more City municipal workers to trash and to um patrol the areas which will be on the tax payers so uh let's see that's it and the flooding that's about it the flooding everybody said that and about the access ESS it's very dangerous getting up there and getting off of that Hill Larry Liberty we've talked about the 20 days but actually the planning board meeting is June 5th and we've talked about having the information for the planning board and back to you with a recommendation that's their function right it's not the site plan on your order so what's this you know we've got a lot of things in process here um that we've talked about well we'd like to see them or we expect to see them in the plan that comes back to the council but what's going to go to the planning board they're going to make a recommendation so uh two more s plan board if if this goes forward and it's um on June 5th the planning board will review the pending Redevelopment plan that was introduced by the Council on May 16th they'll review that to make sure that the um the regulations that are set forth in there are consistent City master plan so that all on June 5th if if the ordinance is adopted and then a reel the stones required this project to go this project not the Reel plan but site plan the project show that in front their that's time where I think most of the discussion been about tonight where they're going to have to have a traffic impact study they're going to have to have specific plans for what the project is actually going to be so that's it's later on I frustration with you know that that you think that might be too L process to really with the way the Redevelopment law interconnects with the L use la um this is kind of process that we have to follow and and the planning board is there for reason that site plan approval is required it will be required under the revelop it's required Redevelopment plan it's required under the land use law so that's that's a necessary step and it's not it's not too late it's it's it's just where it falls in the time line and a lot of the information that you need to present the plan board they're not things that you can really put together without knowing that you're the redeveloper project and and you're working towards a project it's just not something that coms to play this side these are what's being zoning regulations under this Redevelopment plan and and construction standards and Redevelopment standards under the Redevelopment room the the other set of requirements and that's just you know it's the later on in the process we need to get to the are zoning regulations but the zone something where would do and you s it varies you mention no it's not so that's that's another thing that this Redevelopment plan is being D so there's no need foring okay everything has to be constructed in accordance with this plan so when it goes to the plan it would goild to the planning where is for a regular site they will need zoning VAR when they get down I just I just wanted toise what Jeff said what Judy said that that 20 days doesn't seem like enough time for citizen hising Bo will have documents out there for us to look at and I used to be on the Z Jour I know sometimes it was enough and sometimes it wasn't you know and things move forward um in terms of things moving forward your description of how we settled on the developer here was kind of like and had a developer left me wondering was it last man standing that was the developer was it last man out of the room that was the developer could you be a little more clear about how he selected the developer don't mean that in any sort of way other than just transparency about the council met I assume in close in close session could you be a little more clear about what were the contenders how did we eliminate or how did we arrive at the I can't speak uh and anybody near can uh be before I was elected but as I as I noted earlier the first uh I had was in in March and I think have you already got into contract on that it was about the time went into contract just at about that that time where we um came to terms with the landowner you know with a proposed plan at a at a given price and uh that started that started the process not I don't know with what other uh developers the um the land seller had spoken to but we had wind up set settling at about that time to a cont I can say I can say that my firm was involved s to May oh I got a 30 second CL unlike unlike Farmers Market city has no no money in the game here we're not involved in pricing or valuation or anything like that just there's been talk about that around town of do the city have any could do this in any way like would love to to say prior to the mayor's tenure my firm was involved I wasn't directly involved there was another representative from my firm and I do know that the city had been talking with other uh developers who had made propositions they weren't concreted this but they had explored and for some reason they didn't progress I think that was when there was an eminent domain there is a possibility of evident domain I mean I think the answer that's really clear and easy for folks is that it's a privately owned piece of property and K Nan is negotiating with the over the property so we're not involved it the transaction I think that's the clear answer whoever was successful in negotiating than please okay hi I'm Rosemary King 83 Douglas Street I would like to learn more about the relationship between the um Condo Association and the affordable housing units I understand the affordable housing units are going to be maintained by another Corporation and then the condo association would be maintaining its own will there be um you know I I would hope they would have same standards of care I also like think about that this is one neighborhood uh and I wouldn't want to see a situation where the condo makes a playground and then the condo association calls the police to tell them that the kids from the affordable housing aren't transpassing on their playground right um so these are just some issues i' I'd like to hear more about what that relationship is going to be like um my other question is separate but do you want to hear the other I guess you know it was referred to too but I would just like to to hear it when we talk about the volume of water for the calculations such as for the ground recharge is that volume of water the volume of water we had in 2021 is that the amount that's being used to calculate all right first question yeah I I could try to address the first question our intent is to create a Master Association that includes all 200 of the hall so that um there is clear um responsibility and there's there's clear benefit to all the all the residents now there will be a separate Association uh for the affordable housing component again that will be privately managed separately managed by Michaels organization um we wouldn't expect for example that our town home homeowners to be responsible to replace the parts and pieces of the affordable building for long-term maintenance purposes although there could be some infrastructure overlap but our our goal is to have sort of a Master Association in charge of all 200 homes and then a um a separate um HOA strictly for the the Jo what happens Michael's I have one question related that what happens if Michaels goes belly off in five years is that the city's responsibility then I mean or does Coan pick up because the people you guys delegated that to one out of business I wouldn't consider that a a delegation in terms of operation of the affortable building we we are not constructing or managing or maintaining the affordable building it is part of this overall project um but in terms of the um you know long-term viability of the mic organization or any other company that would potentially step into manage that uh that property there's we don't anticipate having a goal in that so the answer would be if Michaels goes out of business it becomes the city's problem so think that's to ask um there's going be two separate reop agreements um one is going to will put restriction in place and the I can share a copy of don't to look like the so you have an idea of what is in there but it accounts for that scenario so you can take a look at that you know can I um to address your question about access to amenities it is actually the affordable housing regulations this is considered one inclusionary development and it is in the regulations that occupants of the affordable units are required to have equal access to all the amenities as the occupants of the market rate units so that's why the affordable organization is part of the Master Association and the tenants have equal access as the owners of the market rate units to to all the amenities on the proper do they have a voice in The Home Owners Association I would imagine that the organization would I don't know exactly how that's structured that's probably more buil question but yes I would I would imagine so like ranchers would would have a voice sorry like like renters would have a voice in The Association certainly the the rers may have tenants Association that would have a voice there' be some organization representing the tenants that would have a voice in the association yes um and just in terms of Michaels generally I will say that Michaels is a very well respected tax credit and affordable housing developer with projects all over New Jersey and the region so it's always possible that they'll go out of business but I would say it's highly it's not they are not a Fly by Night operation we would have to worry about this okay but even just like you know road repaving on the private roads is that going to have to be negotiated every time between the two associations I mean I live on a different Hill but the hills are rough on roads I would say the vast majority of the the private roads will be owned and maintained by the Home Association that we're the master homeowners association that we will be established they will be responsible to maintain the roads and all the common infrastructure want to say okay that can I get the second said to answer your second question um with that storm in 2021 I didn't do a calculation specifically for the city but other locations which it does differ depending on the location but all said and done that storm equated to roughly around thousand year a thousand year storm and currently the state currently the currently the state only requires to have design for the 100e storm so that is the requirement that the developer has to apply by then it doesn't mean that the planning board could not some modification to that but the state requirement is only the 100e storm um storms such as the hurricane is in theory only these place will occur every Thousand Years um unfortunately and I I have done studies on this in the Lance will say 10 years because of our Le patterns in this area and shifted and changed we have had some most extreme weather in recording history in within the last 10 years um that's not something that we can necessarily fortunately control um but that's so Dan hopefully answer your question no take count the full volume of what occurred in 2021 okay at minimum I would say as a resident I'd like to see a model of what would happen if we have that same storm again jump just for a second yes of course we uh there's been a lot of conversation about this 20 days with the planning board but mayor sits on the planning board and you're the planning board engineer is when an application comes to the plan an application comes to the planning board there are certain requirements that they provide the planning board with in order for them to get even a temporary uh situation going so so the the number of reports and studies that the applicant will bring to the planning board what includes many of what studies and information the public wants to have so unless they go this a checklist of applicants got to answer all dozens of questions and reports from various state and local AG agencies to comply with uh their rules before they approve this rule this any project so this this this seems to be some just a little cross talking about you know what is what in 20 days is the planning board going to see they're just go they're going to see this this uh uh Amendment to the housing plan basically what's important about that that and and Bill mentioned this before what we're doing is the Redevelopment plan is really a a combination Master Plan and coordinates so it's a zoning right it's got exceptionally high level design requirements you can't norly do and then we spent a lot of time doing like this conceptual work to get a really good sense as Bill said of what the requirements are the the bulk standards the heights the the the number of units where roads can go it's a higher level ordinates but it's not a site plan yet and they can't do a site plan and proceed as a redeveloper until we have the ordinance in place and that's really what we're getting at here that this is an ordinance we're developing here with as much information as we could derive from K Nan and their Engineers trying to figure out what happens on the site technically they can do and then feeding that back to us to get into the ordinance so we have as much control over this in terms of the design as POS possible once they have zoning then they can proceed once all the requir have the agreements have been signed and they will have to do all that technical uh studies and prove to the planning board and to everybody who comes to see it that technically they can do what they say they can do if they show up and they say well listen we didn't know there was Rock here now we have to move this and we have to do this and and now we have to increase our Basin sizes or something what's on that right that's going to happen doesn't matter really what happens they still going to have to produce four unit right but but there's this Gap so in order for them to get to that stage we have to get to the Redevelopment plan adoption stage such that they can do the agreements and then actually do those detailed studies and give us that information and within the planning board so they can decide if they they've met the requirements or not thank you for explaining the process a little clearer everybody um so so just to clarify because I'm feeling like there's a based on this last set of conversation there's maybe a disconnect between um what we're trying to accom around what we're trying to accomplish and what I just heard you say Michael was if I can reward it is that um we're we're at the early stages right and this is the beginning so if and I think people when they talk about 20 days they see the the date of the second reading is June 20th which is 20 days and only calendar days not business days so it's a little alarming and I don't blame them for for having that concern but um we're we're really just getting this kicked off and that there will be adjustments and revisions based on on the materials that have to be produced to planning board going forward is that an accurate reement there may be there may be we can't tell what those technical studies are going to reveal at this point it could be that everything they're showing conceptually can be built exactly where it is in very much the same configuration well the other thing I'm I'm hearing is a lot of questions have been answered asked rather have been answered I don't want to Sure change them but there are a lot of really significant questions and I think the public would like to know what's that cycle and I don't know who answers this but what's that cycle for getting that feedback back into the public domain so that they can digest it and say yeah that makes sense you know and maybe have I don't know maybe we have another round I don't know what what that answer is but i' kind of like to understand I think the public would like to understand how we're going to um assimilate the feedback we're hearing tonight into what ultimately gets delivered in terms of people moving into um houses so it's a long process right it's a long convoluted process yeah I think I agree with the 20 days that we're hearing I think that relates to when the public hearing is for the Redevelopment plan ordinance um certainly it's not 20 days from now we going to be approving 200 units of site that's that's not just it's clear uh 20 days is just the time when the zoning regulations that that we're setting forth in the re plan Amendment will be up for auction and probably hear about the council um I think a lot of the question I think we're all going to after getting be back night take a look at the Reel plan addressed there to the extent that it can be but a lot of my questions more significant question we here roadway improvements off track improvements um I think a lot of that is is going to be part of the the site plan which is later down the line so like Michael said we need we need these regulations in place so that kadian has they have rules that they have to follow and then they will Design their project their site plan in accordance with these rules and I I think that's the best way to describe it for example if if these regulations go into place and we reach an agreement with K that approved by the council um you know typical approach that 90 days from that the redeveloper would have to submit ayon application pling board so it's it's a you know it's going to take them that long to put all this information together it's going to be a very you know expensive PRS for them because there's going to be a lot of work that goes into their professional as well so um they need to know what they're working on in order to to get to that phase and you know that usually takes it takes months after everything is in place for them to get to the point where they can present something to the plan at the board that is specific enough and detail consider um I file so excuse me well I also want to make sure that in the next 15 minutes we get to the last couple people've been very patient so did you go ahead go well I was just going to say so we're we're laying out the basic fundamental requirements so that the project can move forward through a very lengthy process that's what we're saying and public lengthy right and public yeah yeah okay just to add to that is that the planning board on June 5th just to be clear is a is a great opportunity to come because the planning board looks at the ordinance and makes a recommendation now the planning board needs the you know want your input because then they're going to look at the ordinance and come back and they make a recommendation back to us corre so if the planning board you know I'm just saying comes to the planning board meeting I guess in a short way because the planning board looks at the ordinance too and and then says well is that enough or is this you know and then they make a recommendation back to us it's a very I it's a very complicated process to understand but just to you you know be clear as to be able to help you know as to inut you know because you want it we want to talk about it you know and and you you hear a lot you know you learn a lot and I'm on the pting poort too but I want to hear you know you want to hear it then too because then we'll be looking at the ordinance and that will be the discussion so comes up PL for to okay okay we're done thank you thank you for letting me interrupt that's fine um I'm Susan rumo um I've lived in lamberville about 44 years now so become a local um and I want to share my experience about living on North Union Street for many years in my wonderful old house and uh even though I was in the flood zone I never got a teaspoon of water in my basement until Lambert Hill and you know no one's going to convince me that that development didn't start making my basement flood to the point where mean I got out before Ida but the water came all the way up to the ceiling and in the and prior to that I had not even gotten a drop of water in my basement so I think that um you can use all the models that you want to use but not the models are not always realistic and I think that some of these effects could be absolutely catastrophic to so many TOS people um so many of us um and I just think there should be some mechanism in place for first of all I think all of the points and all the questions that were brought up there are so many things that we don't know about this we need to know more about this and second of all who's going to be held responsible if the models really wen't a little off and somebody lost their life or somebody lost their vehicle or somebody lost their house um who's going to be responsible for that um we are relying on all of you to protect us we are relying on you to ask really hard questions and not to and use the right models like in other words what's happening with climate change and using the most recent thing from Ida that's outdated thing this has so many potential problems so many that it's extremely alarming and I realize that it's a process and I real and I really appreciate you listening to our concerns the the suggestion to come to the planning board meetings to because you guys want input I think is a really good one um I'm a little afraid you know it's really easy to feel powerless and it's really easy to feel like no matter what we say it's a done deal I think some people probably many people already feel that way um but I just um I just have so many concerns and there are so many unanswered questions and I I'm I'm worried that this could be caused some catastrophes um this situation so I guess I just wanted to say that and um you know I know that um it's a tense environment right now but um I just think there's just so much more that needs to be dealt with and we need really reassurances um that if things go AR that somebody's going to be helping hand uh after the fact because Builders are often I mean I'm going to say a stereotype but there's this stereotype of they build build build they they're gone they're out of business and everything gets all screwed up and the people end up the little people end up paying the price so we need to be really careful about that question I have is um owns the apartments the affordable apartments who's going to own you they're going to be owned by the Michaels organization uh they will be the owner manager of that property okay residents will be rental residents uh but ultimately the owner of that the building will be Michaels or a successor organization and Michaels is going to be working in coordination with the association of the tow houses well there'll there'll be a master homeowners association and the Michaels organization will have a a role a vote uh in that Master organization I do have to say I have concerns about the people um in the affordable housing being sequestered to one little spot there um separate from the nice really beautiful town homes that really concerns me a lot so that's not considered to be the best model I ask you to wind down because your past three minutes and we have a couple of other people behind you okay but anyway I I think that should be rethought I don't know why it couldn't have been more integrated I don't know why it has to be like that so I have concerns about that yeah I would just say from a planning purpose for planning purposes we've looked at the location of that um we looked at the location of the affordable housing from the very beginning of of the project because in an ideal scenario you do want to have uh the the affordable hes integrated yeah um and so the fact that in terms of the layout of the project um the the the best solution was thought to be a a single um sing single building that quite frankly um accelerates the number of affordable homes that the city would benefit from um you know we look at that location even though it's it's it's a single building it is at the entry of the community so it's prominently located we we don't think it's something that is is hidden or is is tucked away um and ultimately at this stage um you know we looked at that as the uh as best location the only thing I want to say is that we all know that separate is never equal I'm just going to note that the time we're gonna for two more speakers and then we will end uh as I said at 9 o' so please go ahead I'll be quick Kathy Williams I live at 84 Corel Street I've been in lamberville for over 30 years I've been in my current house for over 25 Hurricane Floyd Chang my part of town I wasn't at this house in 1999 when we got hit by Hurricane Floyd I was on fery street but it was a disaster we can talk about Irene we can talk about Ida her Cape Floyd was a nightmare after that happened as everybody who was in town knows the public school was destroyed FEMA came in and built a flood gate around the public school after that happened all the houses in my neighborhood started to flood we bought our house from Paul BR he moved in in 76 never once got flooded in including Hurricane Floyd we've been flooded twice and I'm talking 20 fet of water in our basement in less than 15 minutes this Floodgate is pushing all the water to all the neighborhoods around the firehouse and around the grammar school I hope you guys are going to take that into consideration thank you Striker from one water ver I Echo I have a lot of the same feelings of many people that have spoke here I'm new to Lambertville I've lived here two years my sister is a longtime resident and I moved here to be close to her uh part of the reason I moved here was because it was a small town and I know that people are talking about the density of this development and so I'd like to say two things about that the ordinance scares us because you are approving a development to increasing it to 200 units which is a huge density on the top of that mountain and once you prove that the developer looks at that as a done deal and works towards maintaining the 200 units I know the zoning board is in place to help relase that but that's fright and to many people that's my first point my second point is a development of this size increases the population by at least 11% think of it in terms of that you know it's like we have 4,000 people or just over 4,000 people according to Wikipedia I might be wrong but that's 11% of reduced parking and it already conjested downtown Zone there's so many things so I'll stop there but um one of the last point I want to make is um I live in woodrest and since I've moved in I've watched the Home Owners Association spend over $100,000 deal dealing with Ash boore disease and I'm and replanting trees working with the sourland Conservancy to plant trees so we can help our neighbors Downstream so we absorb our wood has anybody looked at the trees that you're probably pointing to and check are there as B trees are there is this going to be a huge maintenance problem like we have in our development and so that is the other question I have have the trees been examined that you're all beely no okay thank you uh you want I would just we we survey with Don but with respect to the species of trees each one they've not been identified yet but the area and trees have been CED we have time for one last speak two quick points uh and this is a question uh detail why the 2024 development plan increase 61 units or 44% the 200 is a number I think that really concerns people so if that can be trimmed down I think it answers a lot of questions the other thing and this goes to the what happens beyond the 100-year storm okay are we going to see more as a result of a 100 year or the the development during a 200e stor and I think the answer to that is yes and what what can we do about thank you very much all right well last Lady Larry I'm going to ask we're we're this going toe oh okay uh so we'll do we'll have hear your comment and then Rebecca and then we're done I live on Hancock Street uh Camille Lee I've lived on Hancock Street I walk down that Hill every day into town I'm appalled that no one is talking about pedestrian access they put this development in first of all people who live up there this is a modest Hill it's quiet there's Wildlife everybody's happy 2 more people up there they don't even know where they're going to exit and don't forget I've lived through developments being built before the blasting the concrete trucks the dump trucks and they will go on whatever street they can up there it will completely change the quality of life on that Hill it's absurd it's just absurd so we're not going to be able to walk into town anymore that's what I'm hearing so all of the the the that area has been ignored by Lambertville pretty much nobody really cares but it's pretty much been ignored the lots are weird the grandfathered in like tiny lots and stuff and it's whatever it is and this is the reward that the people up there get it's this really it's going to be light it's going to traffic and we who live behind there will get nothing out we won't be able to walk into town the Cs are going to be constant unless they make the roads so that's impossible to turn up into the hill to leave that development they will be constantly all over the hill going fast running over the kids playing in the street running over the pets there's no sidewalks up there where are we goingon to walk with 500 cars streaming all over the place they don't care they don't care and the people up there are of modest incomes and they can't hire an attorney to represent them so there are laws involved in developing things and that's what they will are concerned with if it falls within the law they can do it but everything else doesn't matter to them they don't care about the people up there only care about the 90 million affordable housing wearing salad blah blah blah doesn't matter Rebecca can you go ahead and unmute yourself ask your question or make your comment sure Rebecca if you're commenting we can't hear you I see that you're unmuted go on okay uh Rebecca you can give me a call tomorrow if you want uh I can hopefully answer whatever question you have uh so uh I'd like to thank everybody for coming tonight uh certainly as we've noted already the planning board meeting is June 5th second meing and a public hearing of the ordinance uh is uh June 20th um and as always uh I'm in City Hall so if you have questions feel free to stop in or give me a call and I'll do my best to answer fa have a motion to adjourn please move second all in favor thank you for return okay like than