7:00 yes huh yes please no sit here all right cond Oh I thought it was on let me start all over um we will be commencing the housing committee meeting today is Tuesday July 9th um it is approximately 5:13 p.m. this meeting is being conducted as a hybrid meeting you may remotely access the meeting through the P platforms such as Facebook Lauren city council page and our YouTube Lauren city council page P pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2022 this meeting of housing committee is being conducted both in person and via remote participation a reminder that uh persons who would like to listen or view this meeting while in progress May uh either attending person at the location of 200 Common Street in our city council chambers or um they're able to access uh this meeting through our Facebook and YouTube city council pages can I also get a uh motion to approve our minutes for uh Council approval dated June 27th of 2024 motion to approve second a motion was made and a second all those in favor say I I and the eyes have it the first item in the agenda is uh under new business is item number 333-2458 discussing this item for us through you Madame CL M through you m chair um this item the purpose of having this item in the agenda for today's discussion it was because um during our last meeting it was um brought to our attention that uh the property task force that has been in the city for quite some time um we need we need to have a discussions around this uh after getting deep into it and and getting a um a a resolution or an or I ordinance change back in 2017 2016 um it he got to my attention that the prop the property task force was um eliminated back then by the city council even though it's been used uh by the city as a tool to provide us guidance to the city council and also to give you a recommendation of uh the dispositions of the properties including um including but not limiting to the um the the rfps and any potential use of the properties uh that recommendation we we get it at C Council the housing Comm specifically now potentially that might change so we that mind we brought that item to the housing committee since this is one of the tools that we use here and for the last year longer for Council La plan for being uh in this committee they've been we've been using this this uh prop task force as one of the most significant tool for the housing committee and uh and and we would like to discuss this uh during the uh full during the last full council meeting we took a uh measurement of adapting this putting on the agenda as an as an emergency uh and also taking a motion to invite uh the director of the department that is here with with with us today uh to potentially discuss this item so with that said Madame shair I would like to provide them the opportunity to open the discussions around what what is what is happening and and what are the changes and what is the how we going to move forward okay right is there anyone in the city council chambers that wish to discuss this item sure um I'm not sure what uh the council's wishes are with regards this in terms of explanation of the real property task force in general the real property task force is a multi-member body which multi-member bodies as a council may know um per Charter are appointed by the mayor uh they're not necessarily created by the legislative body it's the mayor that actually decides the creation of the multimember M bodies who's part of those and uh what the task and and purposes of those multi-member bodies are um my understanding is that this is not a city council committee per se um so it wasn't created by the council um that's just as background uh in terms of the management of that uh kind of properties we have here uh Lage planner as well as the asset manager that are members of that and have been managing that on a day-to-day basis and they can speak more specifically to any of questions that you may have regarding this multi-member body okay um just real quick just to gain an understanding um we're looking to being that this was eliminated back in 2007 we're looking to revive this task force by the mayor yeah I don't think that that that's in the council's purview if you read the charter well no the question that I had is is the purpose of this discussion is because of wanting to revive this task Force I not sure what the council's wishes are on this Madam chair yes madame chair m m chair of of of the housing committee that's the intent the intent is to bring that ordinance back or at least to discuss this with the uh City councellors and see the importance of the uh of the uh real estate task force and how we actually rely on it and we actually trust so if if it is a mistrust within the process this might might be an issue uh to the public which we has been we've been building this confidence uh within the city of L for years and and and we actually understand that having this body in place by how it's been working not necessarily by what the intent is right now and and I actually would like to go back to the item that is on your package to what was the intent by former councelor no I I wrot caros Matos that is in front of us today when I was a councilor so I'm with this it is interesting how things might change now I'm not changing Cel I I take full responsibility for what I was putting forward then I'm explaining to you that according to the Charter these that is the perview of the mayor to actually create those things and this is why it was voted down when I to put this do you have your recommendation uh former uh counselor Matos do you have your recommendation that you have back then in front of you I don't have it in front of me but I kind of remember what it was what I I would like you to read it I'm happy sure absolutely I would like you to read it because that will give us a good sense it speaks very much to the trust and confidence and the transparency that the counselor wants to talk about exactly so it's I I guess that we're on the same page yeah when you were a counselor I don't know if we are right now I think I think we we are we are on the same page I'm not I'm not saying that anything that I said there is not something that we want we definitely want that in city government we want confidence we want trust and we want transparency all I am saying to the council today is that if we read the charter the one who can appoint to uh or create multi-member bodies is not the city council per se but the mayor's office now that doesn't mean that you can't have those things that doesn't mean that there isn't the cooperation that can occur in the way that was that was designed there and I and I don't remember exactly the particulars of it being voted down but I remember I I suspect that part of the reason why it was voted down was precisely because of what I'm saying and as a matter of fact the City attorney has issued an opinion uh with that I triy to bring it uh to us but I didn't get a copy of it in time but I have members of my staff that can speak to that in terms of that opinion and we can get a copy to this committee regarding what the I'll get I'll get it too okay thank you [Applause] while we're waiting for those documents does anyone else have any questions or would like to bring up yes what was that you there exactly oh it was we were there yeah Council plant nothing okay Council we're just killing time I'm eager to read the opinion I find this discussion fascinating uh I've read the cover memo and it says there's no ordinance for this so there's no ordinance and it's an advisory correct Advisory Board which is what I think director Matos is alluding to or speaking to correct um and of course it's the mayor's prerogative as the Mr mat properly said to send the properties down we can either approve or reject we can certainly reject and give our opinions um I just don't I'm I'm going to be very careful and watch where the lanes are in this I don't want us to over I don't want to gain more Authority I just want to make sure that the authority that each branch has has been properly wielded wielded so that's that's that's where I'm going to come from on this thank you and and I think I Echo those words councelor that's exactly what I'm saying I'm I'm 100% for council president what council president is saying I think that those things are are fundamental to government regardless what branch it is but I what we also to your point counselor um we do need to make sure which Lanes we are in um because that is the roles that we all have to play um but they're not mutually exclusive from the goal is what I want to really emphasize to today okay council president Rodriguez you have the floor thank you Mee essentially oh sorry thank you madam chair essentially what we want to do is to maintain the trust that back then probably was broken since then you guys work it out through until we got here and we haven't seen no property in front of us without the recommendation of the task force that is it was in place by ordinance even though we probably were ignorant of the boat that was Tak that that took place if things are working fine why changing it when it comes to people's trust you stated there the recommendation was taken and the and the and the Tas for was voted down your recommendations give us as a counselor a lot more power than what the ordinance says and we just want the ordinance back you see how fair we are I we are so fair that we don't want to we to go with this because we have built a system that works and if something works why changing it unless we want to mistrust or have a mist Trust on the people so council president I would just say that the choices are not binary it's not either we do this and there is no trust or we do this there is trust I think that there's a lot more Dimension to it than just this yes or no type uh choices on things I think that speaking to understanding the the one the responsibility of each branch two the goals of everyone in terms of understanding and being able to have the proper input uh per each branch uh that we have to figure out what system works best around that and quite frankly to as I mentioned before I'm speaking to the fact that this is not within the purview of the council to create as per the charter it is within the power of the mayor to create multi-member bodies to select multi-member body if you look at 10.2 for example it's in there um I fig would also refer to in section two uh as well of the charter I recall correctly can do you do you mind reading the section three of your recommendation back then sure recomendation recommendation the rest of it is background so I have one two three four five number three the recommendation yes all yeah under the recommendations and conclusion there are five bullet points that I put back in 2006 I think it was yes 2006 so the city council should issue an order as per Rule 13 and have the current real property task force stop all activities so I think that that's opposite to what you're asking for council president yes it is okay the city council should incorporate into RFP development process neighborhood meetings to determine the sentiment best use and impact of various property Redevelopment schemes there is currently and to that end city council president I would say to you that that is what we want to do with some of the positions that the council has approved we need to do more more planning I've stated this here several times I think that we need to do more planning in the position of comprehensive planner for example that will take into consideration the neighborhood needs because it's not only about vacant Properties or city-owned properties it's about some of the needs that are that the neighborhoods or some of the issues that the neighborhoods are facing that we haven't focused on as much because we've been focused on the Redevelopment of the downtown or business areas and so we want to really try focusing on planning around the neighborhoods from the city point of view to help those agencies as well yeah but remember back then you say the city council should incorporate not the Community Development correct it says here the city count should incorporate into the RFP development process neighborhood meetings to determine the sentiment correct I did say that and this is what I'm saying we're tring keep read I mean do you see you see how you see how things are moving when you you were recommending those back then mm how things are moving like you know those things that are here are great do want to do this I think that we should be a little more flexible than what you were before and try to maintain things as as as how it been working for the last 20 years but if you keep on reading you will see how drastic that can be for the administration I don't think that this is necessarily drastic for the the administration I think the administration wants input from the neighborhoods I think that what we're debating here is is how not the what I think that we're all agree on the what I think we do want input from the neighborhoods when they when they're affected by some of this development the the question here is the the how not the what and and I and and and that's what we're trying to figure out what the framework around that is yeah but I mean I would like you to keep on reading this for the record because I mean I think it's so important I'm happy you admire my work council president I have work I have looked into the different things have a lot more ordinances I wrote too can we proceed with the reading theend can attest to as I sat next to him um okay so um where was I so the city council should incorporate into the RFP development process neighborhood meetings to determine the sentiment best uh reuse impact of various property Redevelopment schemes there is currently um notification to the abuts if not currently done this should be sent it should be sent sent to known neighborhood groups uh that register organizations with the office of Planning and Development who should maintain a current database of these organizations and potential stakeholders again the goal we have the same goal is that hasn't changed I don't believe it has changed the city council should assume the task of opening and public reviewing and selecting the successful bids this will increase the public confidence make the process transparent provide opportunity for input and create a public record of the decision well in truth any bids there's already a public record of the position right we have the procurement Department that does exactly this function right and and this is a very public part of the public record right um and understand Council my intentions with regards to this is within the power that I had to be able to you know get that that information and so that's is why I put this down here the council should work with the city attorney which is under its supervision and the land use planner to develop a rubric or criteria that targets real property from a priority to the city in terms of neighborhood revitalization improvements Revenue opportunities again I come before this Council saying these very same things and I agree with the with the goal the land use planner should uh issue the monthly report to the city council which clearly indicates the disposition status of properties the properties should uh remain in the final transfer of ownership occurs Within any issues or changes in status indicated that I think is a very doable thing and there's no reason why we can't provide that information to the council through you manair proceed council president thank you so essentially we have these recommendations that are I failed council president remember no you did a great job actually well things that things that the the real the the real estate task force has been doing for the last over 20 years I understand that this took place back then but for some reason it was this vote was ignor over time and it's a it's a it's a common practice that the real task force has been recommending to the city council to the housing committee to the the food Council the the the best use of theer changing that to what is here I have no issues with that whatsoever we're willing to take over and we willing to we willing to actually if when it comes to power and when it comes to the F power we also can create uh uh multi uh this Council can create committees and subcommittees absolutely yes are we going if we going to go way and then we ended up having a committee a task for there another committee here and another T there has not int to find the best use of the property through a task force that is actually a a a a force that everybody's happy with that we can go by that is if it isn't in an ordinance like it says here on the on the last pages of that uh package that we have uh if it is through the or us that is there and we refine it we're willing to work with this by all means by all means because I mean this is very this is very deep and and and as a matter of fact if we look into it that's something that once the mayor sign it once the mayor sign it into a law it's a it's a local ordinance that is is is in fact a a legit not exactly council president well it's it's it's it's signed by the mayor if you want to put into the ordinance that we the mayor need to sign it every four years yeah council president the only thing I would push back on that is just because you say see you have to give me your first born after you know the any first forign born in January and you put that in an ordinance and someone signs it it doesn't necessarily make it legal and so that's where you have conflicts with regards to laws and this is why you need to sort some of these things out so not everything that gets codified like that necessarily is quite is legitimate that's why what happens when when when you start testing these things and Council the plant can tested this better than I when you can when you start challenging these things is when you find out the legalities of some of these things whether or not it does and often in laws and and in documents like these there are contradictions and trying to find out which one supersedes which one right so um I was just cautioned just say just because it was codified and signed that it's necessarily that way let let me put her in perspective to man share uh let me put her in perspective so what you're saying did you check with the city solicitor yes and he agreed with you I he rended an opinion that I have not yet read in completion but yes okay so BR what would should do give you a copy Council on this I don't know yeah well I promise you that we'll get a copy that's why I was late I was trying to get a copy um for thec yeah prly what we should do is is is perhaps have the city of chiny um coming in front of us discussing the different perspective because probably the opinion the opinion that that you that you you getting from him is based on any type of discussions that you guys have if we have here and we ask a specific questions uh we might have a different perspective I'm not saying that the opinion is not right I'm just saying saying that you know having different U conversations and discussions around uh might it might bring us to to a better place what I'm saying is at the end of the day for us to do a disposition of a property we have an specific process and that process is as follow we do the the the Surplus decoration for for the property we create the RFP the RFP go up to the public if if the property goes over in specific amount of dollars under any of the three programs we have and then we do a the specific disposition for that property it could be a direct disposition uh or any of the three programs we use it could be all the process as well um if we have a system in place that work why changing it so Council I would like to see whether or not it is working for the mayor's office and get his input with regards to that um may be a question see the legislative side of the house takes a little bit longer on purpose uh when you deliberate and create systems right and so that's why you have and and also the fact that the council is usually not a full-time member such as staff and so that's where a lot of the the the differences lie with regards to some of the executive versus the legislative processes um and part of that is the processes that you folks have to do to deliberate are not processes that the the the executive branch necessarily has to do and that allows a certain speed let's say to process things so that may be some consideration there um I agree let's go have the City attorney come here so they could ask them questions I would also say to you that a lot of the things that I wrote here again it's not the whether yes or no it's the how and I think that we could figure out how with regards to these things and that's what I would one more thing m madame shair uh I just want to say a few things for what is on the on document one uh doc 134 uh6 2006 chapter uh 214 which is the real estate task force and the establishment um the establishment of it The Quon and and any other specifics but one thing that c to my attention is that um it says on on this paragraph and that in accordance with 10420 the the lawence municipal call this ordinance repeal and supersede any ordinance Provisions related to the real estate task force so there is an establishment of the real task force in the city the city purpose to review the city own properties that have uh declar Surplus uh by the city council preparing a draft document of a draft um um request for proposal um and something that many other things that they they were still doing until not that long ago but something that c into my attention is the members of the uh of the real task force the real estate task force which is a member of the city council appointed by the president uh of the city council and uh and the director of planning the director of Community Development the director of Economic Development the land use planner the City attorney the uh the commission on inspection of inspection Serv service and the mayor of his design those are the people that are on that task force correct most of the people there are part of the administration that the pro which means that the process wouldn't wouldn't uh wouldn't um delayed at all whatsoever so basically essentially what we have in front of us is something that uh it is a thoughtful process to put this this task force together and and if we ended up doing something not related to and excuse me that I'm looking at the screen that I'm looking at your face it's confusing uh yes it's very confusing trust me so something that it it's it's very I think efficient when it comes to everybody that have different opinion different s of opinion that are not necessarily part of the council or the mayor's office that is people in between that work for for the mayor actually all of them except for the person that it's it's it's a member of the council and basically I haven't get the minutes but I I'll get to that point yet but part of the conversation why this task force wasn't issued to the council back then when you were uh trying to uh when you discuss and voted against this task force it was because of of the section 9.6 of the CH I think it's established part of the government that you want every Council to have a part it not only one person uh and that was part of it well I'll get the minutes I I'll I'll I'll get the whole thing around it and then essentially um and I and I and I agree with that but I mean looking at the functionality of a tou for that actually work I think I think it's it's fine the way it is changing changing it might might become an issue and actually as a matter of fact uh it's it's it's like you got we got to understand the problem here is the problem is that not the problem the the the what it's the check and balance of government is that this need to be approved by the city council and we asking to maintain the the same system I mean not the task force necessarily but the dispositions so if we get to the point that we have an issue with dispositions then what's the point of doing anything of this the whole city the whole housing committee most of the stuff that we're doing here is is is properties so if if we don't have that system that actually work and maintain and and and keep up with it I think that you know it's it's like it's a little challenge in here and get me on that yeah I can understand your concern in terms of wanting to you know have the input into this coun I truly do um what I can do is I can have a conversation which I have not yet had with the the mayor who is the person who appoints and creates this this multi-member bodies and see what he's thinking regards to this what problems he may be seeing that the counselors are not necessarily seeing uh that he's trying to solve uh by changing things and you know I'm happy to come back discuss it further um and kind of relay it and figure out what can we do like I said as as I read these things here with the exception of elimination the first one right um the goal is I don't think that anybody's disagreeing I'm not disagreeing with it I don't think the mayor's disagreeing with it and I know that you guys want this I think that is the how like I said and I think once we there's a million different ways to to achieve the same goals and let's figure out what that way what the best way is in this case to ensure the things that that we all want um okay in terms of efficiency transparency and the and the trust that the public has placed on all of us city council president do you have any last remarks no I'm good thank you okay let's wait and then have a further discussion all right um I do see our land use planner uh Daniel McCarthy here with us today did you wish to speak on this item you don't have to but no I have nothing further to add I can you have questions about the historical aspects of it I was here when we wrote it and got rid of it but other than that I have nothing to add the presentation that was made by Mr Matos okay um any counselors uh Santiago councilor the plant do you wish to speak on this item just a couple things if you meant Madam chair just I just would caution my colleague the council president to be judicious and using the word we we as a council especially if we haven't voted on something so typically the word I would probably be more appropriate if that's the way you feel about something just um it over inflates things would be helpful one two I think it's also important and I appreciate I'm I'm actually very surprised by this I find to be fascinating the vote that took place in 2007 we have uh what goes around comes around which the council president talked about it's kind of to me it's fascinating um and um it's it's I'm it's fascinating I'll stop right there so the um what I think it's I think what's really important here as well is if we're going to be making changes we need to figure out what the problems are right so as we go through this and I understand we may be tabling this perhaps and we may ask the City attorney to come here to provide the legal aspects of it and that sounds good I'm in favor of that but I also think to bring some flavor and some context to this discussion what is going wrong with the current system um that needs to be changed if at all so I'm curious as to hear what that is because I I've been you know I'm not going to say how long I've been on the council but I rarely have come across a problem with the real property task force and not all the time were the things that I would want to see happen but what I'm appreciative of of the real property task force is and I know this is going to sound really weird but the politics there's always going to be politics politics politics politics but it takes the politics out of to some extent out of here where I've got to select this one or that one or this one we've got a group if we trust them and they're doing their job correctly to do some metrics to do some analysis and to provide to the mayor the the top person based on those metrics and then brings it down to us we at that point can say yes or we can say no but it certainly takes the politics I'm not getting a phone call from different applicants saying you know I put $500,000 for this property and blah blah blah and and it just puts me as a city councelor in a position that I would rather not be in if the administration does its job correctly it's balanced it's fair it provides the information and then I get it so if that's working I want it to stay like that if it's not working then yeah we need to examine why is it not working that's why I want to know what is the problem that we're looking to address thank you madam chair um the only thing I'll state was um with the short amount of time that I have been uh a member and chairing the housing committee and then seeing the issue of um when we have submitted certain items from housing to the full Council um on a property I think the last time there was an issue so there has been challenges um where transparency um was put in a question um so Unown to me I was led to believe that there was a task force um in place um so this is this is actually news to me that um we don't have a task force um so I am actually um intrigued in wanting to uh you know I'm intrigued to get the the attorney's um Insight on this matter and I I'm not sure if uh our city council president wanted to elaborate in terms of answering your question Council the plant in regards to what have what are the issues in place and the reasoning behind uh wanting to revive this task force I would just make one small Amendment maybe the land use planner can discuss this but I do believe there is a real property task force there is a group they do meet they do evaluate they do study and they do that so that that's that's what happens but I don't want want to did through you madam chair did you want to add any more to that Mr M I I think part of the part of the problem is the is it on no no no put it back on that in the uh in the naming of the of the commission that was working with the city uh when I started with the city back in 2005 Lawrence was coming out of the 1990s and we had a crisis with housing not with housing but with um abandoned properties we had more than 400 abandoned properties in the city we had gone through a fire crisis and then a um a a a drop in the market on housing near a lot of abandoned properties so the state had stepped in at one point and assisted us and gave us our own date at the city at the land court it's called Lawrence day and we had our own day once a week to go in and handle all Lawrence's backload of cases so when the real property task force was first started part of the job was identifying properties in tax title and how we handle those which ones were prioritized to go to landan court which ones were handled we looked into the ability to maybe do auctions things of that nature it's trying to work with this huge backload of more than 400 abandoned properties in the city and vacant Lots um I remember the first year I was here we made $2.5 million in property sales from that vast grouping of properties and a lot of those properties were valuable properties and decent properties and like as I said we had built up a a depository of these properties and so we kind of worked for those in the first few years the real property task force for whatever re for whatever reason was um abandoned as a as an entity and then there was an what we had later on was just an advisory committee to the mayor and I think right or wrong they called it the real property task force but it wasn't a task force or a statutory created uh board like the planning board or The Zing board historic commissions it was just an advisory committee to the mayor on recommendations on how property should be handled um and that's how it's been since then I think that's the the biggest question is is why we call it the property task force I I don't know the answer to that but that's that's the history of how it came to be so for the last 18 years it's been essentially an Advisory Board to the mayor not a they didn't they didn't make decisions they didn't make determinations they didn't have they didn't have really any Authority other than make recommendations okay sure any so through you mad chair it it and and that's exactly uh what we've been getting but I mean also the recommendation for the uh for the task force how we going to the last name is whatever the task force let's say uh it was also in regard to the rfps uh and the rpce is a is a is a is it's an very important document to the process as so how the properties are going to go uh to and to the to a way that is going to be convenience to the city so the task force was uh essential and and and and and that's basically what what we want to maintain um if and it was in place until some time ago and and they actually actually voted also in terms of uh making our determination and advice to the mayor so it was a boat a recorded boat that took place and and and that that give us a sense of uh more uh trust to the process because it was not something that was under somebody's pressure it was something that was evaluated and and and and definitely presented mhm uh to the mayor through a boot and also the recommendations come down to the council that that's how the real the real estate task force uh understood that the property was going to be uh for the best use of the city so until a few weeks okay that ago that I guess that it's not long in fun so um I'm looking for a recommendation um I'll make a recommendation okay I'll make I'll make a motion to uh invite over uh the city attourney to discuss this and um and to discuss the the proper task force and if any member of the task force that uh felt confidence about coming uh to talk to us it's it's also a a a recommendation uh to come over that's a motion and essentially right after that I would like to I going to make a motion to take okay second okay so we have a motion to table um first oh you want to do the invitation first the item needs to be tabled so we have a motion on the table to table this item and we will revisit this item um in addition with the invitation um with the city attorney to allow elaborate more um on on on item number 33324 um Second and by counselor Santiago all those in favor say I I and the eyes have it is there any other items in the under taed matters that um that we need a review are we all set anything under taed matters no okay so um I'm looking for a motion to adjourn second all those in favor say I and the eyes have it oh I have an agenda item oh you I just asked on the layout oh no the layout me for ASB Street you should have got copies of those I spended a package last week I don't have the [Applause] oh is it under tabled matters it's it's under yeah from last week do you mind not giving me the item number what's that what what is the item number oh 29824 okay I don't we just adjourned so okay who put the motion I you okay I gu we resend your motion to adjourn oh I'll I'll I'll re my motion to unj second okay um so we I have a motion on the table to resend our Mo uh motion to adjourn seconded by councelor Santiago all those in favor say I and the eyes have it um we will be now um addressing item number under table matters 29824 which is the acceptance of Street layout plan for amsbury and lawren Street area for amsbury Street two-way Redevelopment project we have our land use planner Daniel McCarthy to speak on behalf of this item yeah so the these plans were submitted um I'm sure the copies were 8 and 1 half by 11 so I blew them up a little bit today thank you but it's a pretty straightforward request this is U project number four of this summer from the mass Do's uh reconstruction um and Highway projects this is the realignment of Asbury Street all right mad chair I going to up um recuse myself from this boat do you have to recuse yourself as well celor plant oh my God we're not going to have this is aead of through you madam chair does this have anything to do with mass D thank you I'm here okay okay um for future reference though whenever there is a specific items do you mind um advising IA almost certain I thought I sent a letter to you last week requesting that we be taking this off the table no no not necessarily under taed if it's involving other agencies that way I'm I'm able to plan in advance to make sure we have Quorum I understand thank you okay and first of I I do I do want to apologize for last week or two weeks ago when I I wasn't attending it's okay uh okay you may proceed you have the floor regret not giving you a call to let you know that the it's a this is a pretty straightforward request tonight um you've approved the plans the layout plans for the last for the rail trail marac Street and M Street over the last two months those were final plans after the easements were taken I'm asking you to accept these plans prior to the taken of easements the reason behind this is certain portions of the street layout were missing from the public record at the registry of deeds so when our land surveyor and our Engineers went through it they could not find certain portions inter sections along amsbury Street and along lawren street that were missing from the the street layo plans that are recorded at the registry of D um I don't have a reason for this we made inquiry to the city engineer looking for old plans to look into the records uh we've gone to the registry Deeds to research this um my only assumption can be a portion of this land was part of the launch R development land during the 70s and ' 80s maybe the layout of the street has altered during this period in any regards the our our the land surveyors that are working for us now on the AMS R Street project went back out using the um documents that they had and surveyed the streets and laid them out as they are currently existing today and the purpose is to put this on the record as the existing layout plan of Amur Street and it's car and it's uh intersecting uh streets um um when the I'll be back in probably in a couple months asking you to reopt another new plan after we've done all the easements but that's down the road prior to that this is a necessary step the the state's requiring that we establish the base the base layout of the streets as it exists today that's what these plans are today I did send copies to the city Engineers office they have no problem they had I didn't get a letter in support but they have review these and uh and again we have an engineering crew and Li working on this and we're confident that these are the streets in the existing layout and we want to have this adopted and I have a quick question yes so just to gain Clarity this layout that you're presenting before us that you're uh seeking approval it's including the easements not is not okay um so for future reference the layout plan that you will be presenting to us can it show via markings or via it's highlighted or somehow indicated within the map as to what what um is being included yes that wasn't included um to begin with all right I'll make sure of that all right and and I think we've shown that in the past like I said this is the existing conditions right now okay all right um any discussions no so I'm looking for a recommend Commendation um to submit this to full Council for um in a as a as a favorable recommendation so okay all those in favor say I I I and the eyes have it um so I believe is there any other items in this uh agenda under taed no okay no thank you all right again I apologize thank you I'm looking for a motion to adjourn this meeting okay all those in favor say I and the eyes have it [Applause] I have to go get my budget and finance oh she needs e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e she's available via Zoom not physically um I yeah I believe so ready yes yes but I'm hearing my I'm hearing feedback of myself though the Buton is it because of that all right let's begin hello no I still hear myself hello Perfect all [Music] right good evening we will be commencing today's budget and finance committee um today is Tuesday July 9th 2024 it is approximately 6:23 p.m. uh note this meeting is being conducted as a hybrid meeting you may remotely access this meeting through our digital platforms um our voting members present today our Madame chair is available via Zoom I will be um chairing this uh this meeting physically uh for today um and to my right we have our city council president uh councelor at large Rodriguez pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2022 this meeting of budget and finance committee is being conducted both in person and via remote participation uh a reminder that persons who would like to listen to or view this meeting while in progress May either attend in person at the location um location above which is our 200 Common Street city council chambers located at City Hall um in addition to um that they are able to uh listen to or view this meeting um in the following locations or or platforms so to speak which is our Facebook laurren city council page and our YouTube Lauren and city council page can we please stand for uh the Pledge of Allegiance before we commence this meeting I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay there are no minutes for Council approval so the next item on the agenda is under new business business uh item number 3 32-24 which is the new metering agreement do we have um our DPW director that is um listed our on our agenda uh jorim to speak on behalf of this [Music] item is the mic mic okay do you mind just stating your name and your position for the record an nowal advisor to the mayor uh thank you for the opportunity we are here to present the net meeting Arrangement that we have negotiated with the team of agilitas I'm just going to introduce them and let them make that uh presentation uh I would like to see if this presentation can be seen on your screen as well uh I have sent you uh the copy I I can forward it to all of you I send copy to uh one second let me just log [Music] in yeah so uh just to be I don't know whether you can see the is the conation on there or not should I screen is it connected to the screen there yeah I have connected it so I don't know it's not coming I don't know is it this button no I just sort of give you some brief background uh but hold on I feel like it's still super I I'll turn of you sure okay should have there we go not sure what technology is [Music] doing projects sorry for that [Music] it's duplicate so it should yeah apologize for the technology so the uh this this this effort started about a year and a half ago and that there was certain amount of spare capacity available in western Mass that the agility members approached us and said that they would like to have it available for communities like Lawrence because it is reserved for uh EJ communities so we were qualified for it it happens to be the last piece that's that was available and they said that if we agree that with that that that can be allocated to us and that's the whole effort started the agreement was made only to say that we will consider it no agreement was actually made with them just said that we allow Lawrence City's name to be used to reserve the capacity with no commitment further so that is where the whole effort started and then I'm going to let the team take over from here because they will explain the whole project the whole concept uh it's it's a it's a it's it's a kind of project that I actually had helped even city of Andover and we have been extremely happy with that kind of arrangement uh and I'm hoping that city of lawence benefits from it too so that is the te thank you yourself hello my name is uh Mary Sullivan and I represent agilitas energy and we are renewable energy developer um based in Massachusetts and uh we wanted to work with and we've been talking to the City of Lawrence for about a year now because there is now listening there see here go can I address the oops I'm just trying to hit the next go to the next one yep popped up there uh agilitas energy has developed a number of actually over 500 megawatts worth of solar and energy storage is this to advaned to uses what is available here with our leadership team um we are also a publicly traded company we've worked with a number of municipalities including Holy Oak Town of Milton the project specifically that we're talking about is we are developing a uh 4 megawatt uh hour solar project and what we'd like to do is have a net metering agreement with the City of Lawrence in which the city Lawrence is getting the benefit of the renewable energy and is saving 125% off of your electric rate and that is the total rate not just the cost of the energy itself uh you're probably well aware that the energy bill is made up of the distribution side plus the generation side and the generation is only about half of your bill so a 12 12% savings on the total bill amount is quite substantial that metering has a unique offering in Massachusetts uh through the Public Utility Commission they have authorized public entities such as the City of Lawrence um and really only public entities to participate as net metering customers um with the ACA the entire amount that has been allocated has already been assigned to different companies we uh use the City of Lawrence to uh accept an allocation of the amount this does not mean that the city of Lawrence is obligated to do this and I assure you there are many other uh public entities that would love to uh grab onto this last remaining piece but we do have a project that's coming online next year that could deliver substantial savings to the City of Lawrence there is no cost for the City of Lawrence to participate in this it is just a savings opportunity the net meter in credits offset both the delivery and the supply charges so for example currently the supply charges would amount at the current rate you are 125% savings would yield over $130,000 a year which means that over the 20year term you would be saving $3 billion and all that's required on your part is to agree to participate in the net metering agreement which has been given to uh your attorney for review but it is a standard net metering agreement the program has been vetted by the Public Utility Commission in Massachusetts um I believe you actually already have one or the Housing Authority already has a net Marine agreement but certainly uh L in many of your neighboring communities are also participating uh 12 a half% uh is actually a very good rate most are only getting 10% uh we happen to be able to reserve your capacity early in the program and also uh participating with uh the there are some advantages for environmentally distressed jurisdictions and so we are able to give you uh a higher savings amount do you have any questions about the program or anything I can answer any questions discussions council president um um Mustafa my colleague hi um oh the lights are we all the presentation yeah that's yeah that's so essentially um we we have deal with a couple of projects uh through Anil which one was the U the couple of properties for solar panel and the other one was an an um a a project that we're going to be uh offering to the community when it comes to different rate and stuff like that uh an aggregation um uh project so knowing those two programs better than this one tell me the differ between the three of them so so net net metering is different I mean this actually works very well in conjunction with like you're adding uh rooftop solar your total amount you spend about uh or you use approximately 12 million kilowatt hours this is only addressing about three so maybe a quarter of your load so a quarter of your bill you know will be able to save the 12 and a half% on that total amount it'll come in as as a credit and so this is addressing this is giving you one more opportunity it does not conf conflict with the additional uh rooftop solar projects that you're if I'm again add uh the way it works is that we layer on top of each other it's not going to be supplemental so if you have we have many accounts on which this energy gets allocated and then if you have solar then we have most of the time the solar that we can probably put use for that particular facility is like 30% or less this acts on top of it so and there are many areas in which we can allocate where there is no solar potential so this is where there is no solar potential then this can be added on that meter we have many meters on which this energy can be applied it doesn't have to be any particular building we can change the meters so it's very flexible in that sense so even if there is a solar we can s because even let's just say la is high school even if you occupy most of the roof the most we can actually use there of with solar is half of it so you still have half left and this one producing enough energy so for example the soccer fields and all kinds there there's lot that we can use without interfering with any other programs so essentially you guys going to produce the energy excuse me you are the company is going to produce the energy yes yes through a solar farm yes and another location that is not enarm correct and then you're going so those are things that I'm trying to figure it out from the presentation because the presentation was not as good as I was expecting cuz it's it's not quite clear so you guys are producing energy in another place yep going to sell the energy at a rate of 12 12.5% less than the regular energy that is coming to LS and you are trying to you are saying that that's going to include the supply and demand the supply and produ and producer of then of the energy right yep yes I'm trying to figure it out yeah so and that going to save the City of Lawrence 12.5% based on the current rate So based on the current rates that would save you 100 and what is the rate that you guys going to be selling the energy to L so you guys going to become a supplier and and so this actually on build credit um because it's it's actually through the oh I'm sorry it's actually becoming a a credit um from the utility so it really doesn't matter who your supplier is we we we came up with the number based on what you're currently paying um however you're always going to get the 12 and a half% no matter which supplier you choose it will be 12 hour and that includes the transmission and distribution side so half of the bill is set by the Public Utilities Commission through National Grid and so you're always going to be saving 12 and half% of that and then plus 12 and a half% off of what you pay for uh generation so essentially what I'm trying what I'm understanding is like if we sign an agreement which is a 20 years agreement with five two potential five years extension you guys didn't mention that on the presentation he was there but read it I'm sorry kind of like you know I'm trying to kind of like you know figure it out so if we sign if we if we if we if today we say yes to this to this vote it goes to the full Council the vot the full Council vote Yes on this essentially you guys are going to produce energy somewhat else with through your through your solo farm and and and be able to get a reduction on the bill of the city of lens becoming a supplier I'm assuming right yeah so explain it a little a little bit let me let me clear clarify everything from scretch so as you can see in the slide right now net meeting program is a unique solar incentive this is a state incentive program that city of lence is trying to explore and benefit from first of all let's keep that in mind secondly net meeting program allows include virtual net meeing program which is the city of lawence is going to benefit this means why there is a virtual net me program why you know the state allows uh City like city of lorence to benefit a project from Western Massachusetts because not all the cities have enough land enough space to build solar Farms so in order to let those cities to benefit this program Cate allows virtual net metering mechanisms and allows the cities like Lal L who doesn't have enough space to benefit from this program so participating in net meeting program doesn't mean we are going to be the supplier city of Lance and agilitas energy are going to be partners in this net meeting program which this program is going to generate net meeting credits to The to with the produce electricity and and then we are going to offer 12.5% discount from the generated net meeting credit the city of lawence can select its own supplier together with this net meeting program this is you can just consider that you know City of Lawrence can proceed how they are procuring their electricity as is and in the meantime can participate in this net meeting program and you know benefit from this program with additional discount so that's because you know even though it's a long-term program that the city of lawence is going to execute uh this is not going to geop Paradise the City of Lawrence flexibility about getting in contact with other third party suppliers or third party projects and is this is going to complement the you know the ongoing efforts of city of Lan is you know putting to execute some contracts with some other project Developers for rooftop or carport systems they are all complimenting each other to to utilize almost all the you know electric load of I I think I think the way to think about it is you have numerous I don't know how many but hundreds of electricity accounts you know every meter and we generate basically What's called the schedule Z the details don't matter but it's a list of your accounts and these credits get applied to those accounts so you're going to be able to save money um because you you you're not putting all your eggs in one basket you know you've got this one this is an offsite uh renewable energy farm which is giving you you know some uh savings you're going to do more on your roofs you're going to go out to a competitive supplier to get the best rate you can so so there's not like one simple solution we're one piece of it that is giving you the opportunity to take advantage of this incentive program that the state of Massachusetts has authorized just for Public Utilities or just for public I very simply State they General electricity National Grids issues credits they take 85% they transfer the credits that National grds gives them 12.5 5% of that amount they give it to us to be applied towards various bills we have it's a dollar transfer it's not kilowatt hours it's not anything that it is equivalent of whatever kilowatts they generate gets translated into Dollars only to be applied for electricity bills we pay and that's how it works it's the financial deal it's the even though it appears as energy and all that stuff it financially benefits us all we say is that 12.5% applies credits to us for next 20 years of the total energy bill so if the energy bill goes up 12.5% amount amount increases it so we actually start to benefit as the energy crisis go because we get more money transferred to our accounts okay council do you have any additional questions because I know our Madam chair from budget and finance has a question as well okay um Madam chair Stephanie fonte are you available to ask your question hold on one second I could barely hear you it's no it's super low okay could you try again it's so low give me one second no no no no no no no no please no no no we need them on we need the lights on value this no there [Music] behind go ahead counselor could you hear me m counceling Fon could you hear me I can hear you can you hear me perect now perfectly okay so first before I say my comment I just want to apologize for not being there I had a memorial ceremony at Malon Park scheduled at the same time that I completely forgot about so thank you um Vice chair for for chairing this today um so I'm a bit from what I've been hearing I'm I'm a bit confused I don't I still don't fully understand this net metering situ situation I also don't understand I what I do understand is that it won't interfere with the solo panels project but I'm kind of hearing it's the same thing essentially so I I I guess it's not a question but I I just want to say I'm very confused as to what this is and why it's being presented now when we're still trying to figure out the solar panel situation too and especially if if one is not needed for the other hold on hold hold on okay is that is that all is that all do you have anything additional to add no I'm I'm just super confused on what this is okay I don't I don't understand this at all all right so we have attorney who in here not not I'm so sorry we have our c um um in addition to attorney okay that's why we do have attorney who in here but we have our C here present um it seems like he has something to add in regards to um the statements that you just made yeah I think I just want to make it clear uh that what they what was presented tonight is this is just an opportunity for us uh they're going to generate some electricity we're going to get 12% 12 and a half% off our electric bill uh that's what this contract does uh it doesn't have anything to do with the solar panels that's a whole separate thing it's it's another way for us to save money but this is something that many communities uh have taken advantage of a net Manu agreement they generate uh um uh Power and they it's available to communities to offset their electric bills so basically all we're doing is getting an agreement with them and we'll save 12 a half% off our electric bills so it's kind of a no-brainer in the sense that why wouldn't we want 12 a half% off our electric bill um so that's really where I mean I must um add that I do I I concur with uh our Madam chair I was also left confused just by reading um reading some email correspondents that you know we weren't cced on it even though we're part of the budget and finance committee so um some of this correspondence it's like I'm seeing for the first time um so it wasn't until today's presentation where we're gaining Clarity that this is separate from the solar project um council president oh wait hold on I'm sorry um Madame chair do you have any additional questions before I uh give the floor to our council president um no I'm I'm still a bit confused uh I'm I'm just going to continue listening and see if I can if I can get a bit more clarity and I'll I'll raise my hand again if I have additional questions or comments okay perfect council president you have the floor sure thank you thank you m chair thank you Vice chair for the opportunity well um the reason why we might ask questions more than normal is because sometime you don't get things for free and that doesn't happen in this world so want to know more like one another contract it's a 30 years potential 30 years contract uh and we know that this a 30% I mean wish 30% it's 12.5% uh no not at all uh but I'm wondering too if the whole program ex what is what is was the intake more deep into it so I know that if I'm getting 12.5% what is it up there so that's why it's like you know questions were raised because it's I mean it's tough to believe that I mean but it's something else probably you guys are producing energy on behalf of different cities and towns and and then and those cities and towns are getting some cut of the production and and stuff like that so I want to know more about it because every time that I bought an an over three years contract which is usually five years contract I question it so and then now we're getting a 20 years contract with a potential of five two years five agil but uh but in essence they need a long they're making a major commitment Sol field so they and that's why they go or dpu to get this agreement in place and and that makes if they can get an agreement for us to buy basically take their credits uh and I'm not sure how how how they make money on their end uh but you know we get a 12 and a half% discount on our on our electric bill uh and and they need that 20-year commitment to be able to uh for us to take those credits as I imagine they get paid well you guys can explain how you guys make money but we save 12 % off our electric bill based on this program which is uh U um supervised by the Department of Public Utility so they have to pass all that kind of stuff regulatory stuff yeah realize I'm sorry um you're right you're not getting anything for free I will but okay no but it's because you buy electricity everybody that that pays in pays in to the Public Utility Commission okay and so all that money then they go through this whole rate-based uh process and they've decided that what they want to do they want more renewable energy in the state of Massachusetts that decision was made so a whole chunk of money was assigned and they said all right how do we want to allocate this money to get people to participate and one area was on uh for public uh properties so cities cities and towns and and there was actually and so there was an allocation made and we're now and we were able to work with an Neil and sound like the City of Lawrence had enough usage that they could take these credits because you have to be fairly large in order to take them and you fit all the bills all the requirements to be eligible and so now you can basically get your money back I mean you yes you're getting money and if you don't sign up for this you'll keep paying more money and another stud will take it just you know just to make things clarified you know everybody is putting solar panels on their houses right so there are two business models right now first you can buy the solar panels get it installed and benefited but you have to put some kind of an extra money out of your pocket to do that the other thing is working with an Solar Company let them install it Lee it to you and then you get some kind of a savings this is almost the same the only difference is the CATE creates some kind of an incentive mechanism like this and allows cities or or towns like L who doesn't have enough available land to benefit any project beyond their boundaries City boundaries otherwise everything is almost the same same regulation same mentality the the all the produce electricity generates net metering credit and you utilize that net metering credits to compensate your electricity bill aside from that let me add one more thing as you can see this is M ACA uh web page this is the mes ACA is the uh Department of Public Utilities Administration for the net metering program so as you can see here this part is the public capacity as you can see 41,5 4 this is the total net metering capacity and let's look at here what's the remaining one just a th000 which means less than a megawatt all the capacity is filled out and we pick the remaining one which means currently almost 400 megawatts of P you know solar capacity is utilized by public entities all over Massachusetts in National GD area and 300 and 3058 megaw of solar capacity utilized by other public entities toout m in ever Source area so this is some kind of an incentive mechanism that requires both the developers and oft takers like public entities to work collaboratively to to utilize this benefit from this incentive mechanism i i in addition to being a City attorney I happen to be on the electric light board for my town so let me explain it simply in my town we don't have eversource or any of those we have our own little utility so when we go out we buy contracts we buy um water uh Power from Canada we buy solar from someplace else we buy gas from the Midwest we buy it all over and we get to get the best price because we pick it you're a city you don't get to do that you're stuck with your provider you're stuck with National Grid you're stuck with urce you pay what they tell you to pay so what's happened is the government I mean to make it simple is the government has said to those big companies hey you've got to get some solar in there and give give incentives for these solar companies to come in so that's how they're making money is the government's paying them and they're paying to get you on because the government wants you on solar I don't know if that's simple enough but that's what the cities can do as opposed to a town the town we can buy our own power from whoever we want if we don't like the solar power we go someplace else we we actually built our own solar field you can't do that so it's just this is what what you're do whether you want it or not I'm not an advocate I'm not against I'm just trying to explain it in a simple Point all right I appreciate that explanation through you mother chair um essentially let's let's this let's let's I mean I'm I'm not I'm not against these uh um I'm like neutral perhaps I want to see the contract but I'm willing to uh hear hear you guys more and and provide us with a a presentation explaining the the metering the metering um the metering agreement uh in a way that is been discussed perhaps and also the contract as of how we're going to be U getting or engage in to a 20 years contract so sorry essentially a good presentation that explained both the the agreement better and also the the contract as of what the City of Lawrence is going to be getting into for the next 20 years so that's going to if if we send it up to the full Council um that's that's what I personally would like to to see eventually at the full Council level I mean we can C we can certainly share the Madam Vice [Music] chair councelor fonted you have the floor thank thank you is council president allat yes he is okay okay thank you um I I I'm I'm agreeing with the coun with council president rodrig guys I am still very neutral on this I am and maybe I don't know May maybe it's cuz I've had a long day but I'm still a bit confused um however I do believe I'm what we've experienced with the other project I do believe bigger projects like this um we should be discussing it I mean we're we're three or four out of you know nine total Council council members um and I I I don't think we should keep it here I think we should send it up as a committtee report and have uh the parties the stakeholders like council president said uh develop a better presentation and us as a whole as a council as a whole question and comment and determine what we believe will be the best for the city whether we make a decision that night or not or we table and we come back to it but I I I do believe that this this may this is a bigger discussion than than just us three at the moment thank you madam um Vice chair definitely so do do you understand no that's why I'm a little confused I'll I'll explain it to you so essentially we looking we we two of two of those two of us are at least two of us are neutral but willing to move it forward okay that's what you're looking for yeah all right so essentially once we move it forward as a committee report no recommendation from this committee that will be presented at the full Council as a committee report we will accept the committee report and then we'll provide you the opportunity to bring bring to us a better presentation that explain the the the uh the net meter and agreement and also the contract as of where the city is going to get into uh obviously at that point we're going to have the city choury and and everybody around that is going to help you a little more when it comes to probibly the the contract but we we will We would like to see the intakes of the contract as well because we are voting on a 20 years contract uh plus an potential extension of two extra five years which is a 30 years contract we never have we have done we haven't done that before I've been here for almost 10 years but we're willing to hear you out right uh since the fact that you mentioned that he is not for free and we need want to do the intakes of in and out I meant that it is uh it's actually money that you've already paid so you should get it back okay is is really what I meant by not for phrase somebody's going to get the money yeah um so just to summarize would would you like to see like a sample in order to explain it better would you like to see like a sample invoice to show you how the money is going to show up on your accounts so that you can see maybe maybe what you should do is get together with a Ka and be able to present it better better understanding also how the come but where the savors are coming and how the public the massachusett public utilities are allocating those those programs and and the background information and as much information as you can if you present this presentation to anybody it will be like tough to understand that because the first thing that need to be defined is what is an me agreement and then after that we go from there um and and and seeing those numbers and the potential saving where they come from and what are we going to get into it I'm assuming that you guys are going to be I'm assuming that you guys are going to be using uh this this project is going to be on behalf of the city of lawence and other communities around to be able to produce a credit from the state and and then because you're producing solar and then be able to reduce upset the cost of the city based on credit that you guys are producing or based on energy and producing so but let's get into it a little more deep send it up to the full C so we have no issues with neutral so we have no issue with the with the with the with the current presentation and willing to move forward so with that said uh I'll make a motion to wait we have Stephanie Madam chair I believe you have a question no sorry I I forgot to lower my hand I apologize all right so I'm not I'll make a motion to send it to the full so um as a committee report pending a presentation for with a better explanation of the program itself including that uh contract portion of it as of how the city is going to be getting into um and I make that as a form motion okay so we have a motion on the table seconded by our Madam chair all those in favor say I I and the eyes have call roll call okay yes because I'm on Zoom oh okay um our Madam chair Stephanie fonson yes okay our council president Rodriguez yes and I vote in the affirmative um so the eyes have it yep thank you so much um are there any additional items that need to be addressed no um can I get a motion to adjourn this meeting no I I have I want to take the other item on from the that was tabled I would like to bring It Forward say that again the there was item it's item my glasses on we have a July 15th deadline so uh it's item 437 A and B 437 was tabled at the last meeting yeah we we have a deadline with National Grade so if we don't do that we we will do some enormous opportunity I would like all like to do is to take a v to see that I have to see if I even have Quorum um and Madam chair um there is a two items that um well item 437 a-23 and 437 b-23 relating to the solar panels um are you are you going to be available for this we do have a 7 p.m. ordinance meeting um well we're just asking for it to be sent up as a committee report to the full C Council yeah that's that's all that's all where we asking you talked about the last time last time you said that we will do it next time so no no no we don't we don't commit on dates we don't commit on dates we table it well council president you're not even speaking on the mic we we didn't commit on any dates we tabled it and we left it here until the council decide not until that lines de side no but if you if you don't move it to the full consel now we actually would lose the ability to to put solar on Arlington it just that's what it is no we're going to according to what I underst we're going to start from scratch we're not losing the opportunity to put panels don't confuse anybody we will be losing the opportunity this time because we go back in the queue if the queue gets full then we we have so all I'm asking is that last time the discussion was that if you can move it towards the full council meeting we losing the opportunity this time we're never going to lose the opportunity to lose course you're right you're right about that that probably probably this is an opportunity to discuss other sorts of having panels okay I mean solar is not going anywhere so I'm not talking about but there's a particular opportunity window of opportunity we have if you can at least allow the full counil to visit uh discuss this that would be really appreciated but that's all I'm asking I'm not asking you to vote Yes or No allow this to move forward to the full council meeting um we have our Madam chair that has raised her hand I I just wanted to make sure and confirm if she had any questions yes thank you madam Vice chair I um I I was I was vocal last last meeting about this um I also think that this is a matter that shouldn't be kept at the committee level I I think this is a bigger project um that that should have the opinion of all nine counselors um and I I mean I'm still I'm I'm I'm still with the same the same sentiments I said last meeting I don't think this should stay here and if if the council still feels like this isn't the right move or or if there's still questions around it we can still table at the full Council but I do believe that this is another big project this is another conversation um that should be held with all nine counts I actually with this and the and the and the previous um item I understand there's a financial aspect to it but I also and and this is just my personal opinion big projects like this I don't I don't understand why we send it to smaller committees I I personally believe it should be sent to the committee of the whole so we can all discuss cuz this is something that affects everybody in a major way and um that's that's that's my two cents on it okay um so I'm looking for a recommendation in order uh for us to kind of like finalize what I make a motion to send um what's the item number so are we doing one item at a time the first item is item number 437 a-23 solar PPA and Lease contracts with solect electric for City Hall 150 solar panels Arlington school 600 solar panels so I recommend to send that item everything that the vice chair just mentioned to the full Council as a committee report um and just as a committee report for the for the sake of discussion and I make that as as a as a full as a formal motion okay I'll second that um all those in favor say I I I we need we need roll call mhm can we have roll call all right um Madame Chante yes council president Rodriguez no vote okay and I vote in the affirmative so I'm not voting so abstaining you're abstaining yeah oh no present you're present no there's no V okay um um so the eyes have it um the second item on the agenda uh pertaining to the solar panels is item number 437 b-23 solar PPA and Lease contracts with Select electric for any other property um Madam Vice chair I make a motion to send that to the full Council as solely a committee report for the purpose of a full Council discussion okay nice second that uh roll call uh Madame chair yes council president uh Rodriguez okay and I vote in the affirmative and the eyes have it um M Madam Vice chair yes ma'am um through you I I just asked um that the administration the CLE Mr um the advisor and for for all three items that we just sent up as a committee report to be prepared um this isn't and I and I'm going to make this very clear this is not a favor to move it out of committee this is at least and I'm just speaking for myself um this is how I'm seeing it this is solely because I believe I'm I'm only one vote though but I the way that I'm viewing these projects they're too big of a project for just us um so be prepared you're going to have more questions this does not mean that anything is moving forward but I you know we deserve to discuss this all together thank you madam Vice chair okay thank you um thank you can I get a motion to adjourn this meeting oh yes sir councelor llant I'm so sorry I for whatever it's worth there's a document with my name on it it's the very last one we have done nothing on it since 2015 I'd like to have make a motion to withdraw a document 197 15 no one's doing anything with it always get it whenever we want it and it's just taking space in your agenda so we just take it out okay um so I believe I need a motion to take it out of tabled matters um motion to withdraw I mean motion to untable no no moot motion to withdraw um from table I what's the number again Madam Vice okay so under taed matters it is item number your use your microphone it is uh item number 17-15 properties with outstanding taxes due to the City of Lawrence review of payment tax title and Disposal process can I get a motion on the table a proper motion on the table um I'll make a motion so to make it easy for the the the chair I'll make a motion to U untable it and send it to the full Council for with okay uh second second okay so there was a motion made on the table to untable and to move uh to send to full Council uh for withdrawal item number 197 D15 19-15 so we're un tabling and moving to full Council um to withdraw thank you and that was seconded by um our Madame chair all those in favor say I I I and the eyes have it okay can I get a a motion to adjourn this meeting so move second all those in favor say I I and the eyes have it roll call oh I'm so sorry I always do this um okay council president Rodriguez yes um our Madame chair yes councelor fonte yes and I vote in the affirmative and the eyes Haven thank you so much counselors thank you madam chair e I'm you move this know for to for Cor you spe know know how you doing doing good we've always appreciated you coming to some of the events it's been very nice I I love you guys thank you very much I I think everyone's really been wonderful very receptive and I think a lot than all right we going good evening counselors today is Tuesday July 9th 2024 this is the intergovernmental relations ordinance committee um voting members are Council Vice chair Reyes Council Del Rosario councelor Santiago and I am your host this evening and chair Mark llant uh presum a chapter this is there'll be a test later to the audience if you're not paying attention I'll be asking questions so please pay attention uh pursuant to chapter 20 the acts of 2022 this meeting of the ordinance committee is being conducted both in person and via remote participation reminder that persons who would like to listen to view this meeting while in progress May either attend in person or at the location above or use any of the following access locations including the Lawrence city council YouTube page and laurren city council Facebook page at this point um I like for us to All Rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all motion to approve Council Del Rosario seconded by Council Vice chair Reyes discussion C9 I'll call the question on in favor say I I poose no the eyes have it councilors we do have a full agenda we have a number of people in the audience here that of course as we always do we take them first um Council Rosario I I heard what you had to say but two things we're going to go with Council a couple of items first um that will make our meeting go a little more smoothly um and then unfort uh our good friends from the metering agreement folks who are just spent time with the budget and finance are going to give us a quick recap uh because they've already give the presentation of budget and finance we're going to get a pres a small presentation tonight and then we're going to hopefully move that up without without a recommendation to the full Council so having said all that so we're going to take you number two so we're going to stick around we won't be long you can stick around um if there's no objection I'd like to take document number 32324 as the first part of tonight's agenda is there any objection to that no objections we're going to start with that one 323 propos new ordinance for the manager of financial administrative services and I'll be excusing myself Council Del Rosario is recusing himself from the discussion and the vote let that please be duly noted that council delaro is recusing himself from this from this item he will not be here for this item please make sure the notes reflect that thank [Applause] you sure the first item 3 320 324 we're going to start with that one 32 323 24 let's start off with that one um welcome Mr El Rosario welcome uh there's an item here manager of financial administrative Financial administrative Services can you please just kind of just talk us through why this is before us and why it's important that we that we add this ordinance good evening councelor Rosana Rosario deputy director um Public Works City of Lawrence 200 Common Street Lawrence Massachusetts so why the need that we have for a manager of financial services and administrative services at our Public Works is that the position established in the Department of Public Works should be appointed by the mayor their duties should be um the responsibility for providing the financial and administrative management of the department performing financial and administrative and administrative Services board for DPW this position has an overall management responsibility for for financial and accounting functions for the Department this person should perform all the all the other related or similar work as required in the performance of these duties the manager of Financial and administr administrative Services should pre should prepare and submit the annual Department budget that is funded through the city's general fund participate in the presentation to City officials and be accountable to ensure budget is maintained in accordance with approvals the education and experience needed for this position should be a Bachelor of Arts or business administration preferable or 5 to seven years of professional experience in which major duties include includes one or more of the following functions records management Financial Administration budgeting control Accounting Office management or program management in a municipal environment and last but not least the salary and benefits um of this position should be entitled to receive all all benefits provided to a union to Union employees regularly employed in the administrative service of the city and just as a resume of the importance of having this person as part of our team is that currently the Public Works have about 170 accounts that needs to pay this is not counting all the contracts all the payments that that we have to process to our vendors um so that brings us to probably about 200 and something more accounts on a monthly basis so how is this being done now and if we create this position how is this going to impact the city and the taxpayers well the the way that this is going to impact it will be in a beneficial way because our our payments are going to be processed on a timely matter right now we have a an accounts payable at the Public Works office um that's taking care of all of this work and a lot of a lot of it is getting getting obviously backed up due to not having um enough enough help when it comes to to paying or or invoices or managing everything that has to do with with our financial Administration so who's doing this job now who's doing this respons we have our account our accounts payable and some of the work that she has to do because it's so much um she gets some help from the clerks and and so technically we have employees that have to stop doing what they need to be doing so that they can help us with the payment of the invoices so here's my last question so I go home I'm vote let's say I vote for this tonight I go home and someone says to me the plant what are you doing why did you vote for that and I'm going to say to them I voted for this because there's 170 different bills that have to be paid that uh some stuff was falling between the cracks and there's greater efficiencies and we need to move forward in a more timely manner am I missing anything or is there anything else no you're not you got to correct because that's not happening now okay is that what you're telling me what I just said it's not happening why we have to have this new position it is not happening the way it should be happening because we don't don't have someone that's designated to perform those duties only those duties based on the fact that our department has so many divisions we have to take care of paying every single contract of each division and everything else that falls into the Public Works side and the real the real so here's the secret right what my constituents want to know is will my streets be swept will my Parks be cleaned will the uh will the the buildings that I walk into be safe um these are the these are the this is how this is what they're looking for and if you're telling me that if we have this person that this is going to increase and make that happen because that's the mission for Department of Public Works that's your mission if you're telling me that if we get someone who's doing paperwork and finance that that's going to be able people are going to be looking at our DPW and saying yeah we're it's better now because that's happening then I think this is well worth it but I want to hear that from you you is there going to be a relationship between what people's Services they're going to see versus because of this position there is a relationship due to the fact that we take care of paying our vendors the ones that provide those services for us and the city so if we can expedite or process their payments to their contracts the way we should be doing it they're going to be happily out there performing the street sweeping and everything else that we um contract them to do gotcha questions from councilors comments motions you are very clear what's that specific thank you oh you're welcome I've been doing this for over want to see that safe and clean and everything like that okay thank you for that okay I have a question councilor Santiago how much will be the Sal the salary for this position so the salary information I do not have it I do have just um the information here that it says that the benefits and the salary that this person's going to provide is going to be based on what the union employees usually get when it comes to their administrative service of pay so it's not something that we determine so that I can be more clear about it's something that the union determines once this position gets created it falls under certain category and then they'll say because this employee falls into this category and this is how much this person should be making okay before before I take the vote for that I would like to to know the salary because we recently vote for tremendous ER budget and that's another addition at the budget and the monies will be gone and another question that I have is one second m yeah you mention is appointed by the mayor who can apply for this position really just appointed by the mayor when I said appointed by the mayor is because we're in the process of creating this ordinance this is from my understanding and that does not mean that the mayor is going to be the person that's going to choose this employee it may be someone that is probably already doing these functions and it may be able to apply for this position and I I don't I wouldn't I wouldn't been able to tell you exactly because the we're we're just creating the ordinance so that the job can be created the position can be created okay fastic I just want to maybe help help a little bit with that for almost every position in the city almost every position the mayor is the hiring Authority for almost every position there are some positions where the mayor um appoints and the council has to confirm that's not one of these positions but almost every other position whether it's Union or non-union unless it's a department head of some sort where we get involved the mayor is a hiring Authority so appointed by the mayor I think is a pretty standard the mayor whoever the mayor is is the person who has the appointment so I don't think that's unusual at all whever that's worth okay um thank you so I I do think that the Count Council Santiago makes a point we I think there needs to be some more uh we need to have some sort of claric ification it says that um it's un I'm reading it again it's un is this a union position or a non-union position this will be a union position it will be Union okay so we would would want to know what union it's in that would be good to know I I don't think it has to be on here but that would you know once you know what union is and what pay scale it is that would answer the counselor's question which is what's the what's the rate so all you got to do is to find that out and that answers the counselor's question right of course and do we do do you know which Union it is and do you know which the which number in the union and barington report but you're going to be saved in about 3 seconds because the cappo is here perfect I do know which Union it is it's in the supervisors administrators Union I don't recall the salary but it's per the Union contract it's one of the higher paid salaries in that Union it's uh uh manager of financial services uh there's a position the same position is in Community Development and uh it might be one others in the city so it's a it's a the salary got to be somewhere between 80 and 120 80 and 100,000 80 115,000 something like that that that did well that was your question right so thank you C so I think I don't know where we're going with this but I think it's I think that that's going to be a question that the full Council will want to know um and so I think that that if we can get that information um if that that would be helpful right so um so I'm looking at this point for a motion of some sort I would like to send the item 32324 to the full council meeting for the favorable recommendation and to know the salary as well and a condition on there is the union position the the the union and its uh and its uh it salary uh Wages that's the that's the condition on the motion yes there's a motion is there a second seconded by the Vice chair any further discussion see no further discussion I'll call the question and of course um M Kao we got order an ordinance change we have to order a public hearing on this correct all ordinance changes require public hearings correct this is an ordinance I I don't believe this is an ordinance I'm not sure uh it says it right on there I'm not familiar with if it's an ordinance change then it would require a public hearing it does I don't know what's being changed it says be it ordained by the city council and the revised ordinances further amended for amending and substituting the um so we are whenever we change our ordinances I think that's the the rule this position I know has already been ordinance so but we're changing the ordinance that's the point it would I'm pretty confident this needs a public hearing so the order to order of public hearing is that the motion we still want the information though so the motion is to send this up to the full Council order public hearing and also receive the information regarding the salary motions been properly made made and properly seconded and properly second I'll call the question all in favor say I Poe no the eyes have it you're here for another another one as well M Del Rosario okay and then we're getting to the energy one next so don't go too far go ahead this is document 32424 you don't need to read the whole thing for us M Del Rosario I think what would be really important here in your own words what is this position why is it important and why do we need why do we need it thank you um councelor llan so this position will be important based on the fact that RC let's give that least the title this is a sanitation Hazard material program manager correct okay good this person will be in charge of handling our hazardous materials and when I talk to hazardous materials I can give you some piece of information currently we collect six 190 tons of sweeping piles these materials are considered hazardous we need to have someone that's dedicated to be involved directly with how we dispose this who is the company that we hire to dispose these materials and also to help us educate the community and also the other employees that we have on how we need to dispose and how we need to take care of ourselves to protect ourselves from these materials okay lot of the same questions so the person the same person maybe as somebody else in the household says to me why did you vote for this and I need to say well are we doing any of this now who's doing this now anybody so right now we have a very limited amount of items that we receive at at our DPW Yard and is currently taking care of our recycling um crew at the moment we need to try to be better at it we need to try to increase um the the type of materials that we receive pesticides and all of those really hazardous materials because we don't have we don't have a system of receiving them from the community and that tells us that they're going somewhere they're either going into the trash or they're going into the the soil they're going they're going somewhere um we're definitely getting this these items is just we're not getting them the correct way so we also need to um make sure that this person that's going to be taking care of this position the person that we're going to hire to to be um the sanitation and hazardous material manager um helps help us um to create a system of receiving these items from our constituents and also enforcing um that these items do not get disposed into the wrong place very good the one thing that seems to be missing on this sheet is what you had in the last one which is a section called education and experience I don't see that on here okay yes you are correct that part is missing here do you have that in a different draft or is that something you would have to go back I don't have in front of me um but we we can definitely get that back to you guys and also this position will be a non-union position that's non okay mhm Council I'm going to if you have any questions now is a good time to ask them so that and I would I would ask that we table it here so that they can come back with the with the with the additional information at the at the next meeting but is there any other questions well m delario is here on this matter I can for you want to wait okay counselor you want to wait too do you want to ask now wait okay uh I'm looking for a motion to table this matter and and invite Miss Del's hour to our next meeting and bring back the the other information if you can get that to us beforehand get it over to the the City attorney I'm sorry the city clerk that would be helpful and if you could put it in just do a new draft of this document and put a section C or D or whatever you decide to title it and just make it part of that so motion to table's been made and seconded all in favor say I I oppose no the eyes have it thank you Mr have a good evening you're welcome have a good night okay listen um we're we're going to take this these poor people right here the metering folks have been here since for 6:00 in a budget meeting so we're going to take them up now we also have it won't take long I know we have the Fe set of three Saints folks are here that's usually a pretty quick one we can get through that pretty fast um and then we have D day um and I think that's a quick one too but we made a promise to get you guys out of here soon or rather than later so if there's no objection let's deal with document number 33224 and the name on the document is incorrect that you see there um metering contract it should say new metering agreement I think it says that um net metering agreement should I say net not new net okay so councelors thank you for the opportunity I'll be extremely brief because I have gone through this process but uh I want to explain the product that being introduced here for the benefit of the city is pure benefits and the risks are taken by the people who are offering the product the proposition proposal in front of the committee is that they will offer a discount on our energy bills to the tune of 12 and a half% of the total amount of energy they will produce on the solar farm they make out in the west so brief context for that is State wants to increase solar capacity in the Massachusetts 5% of the total capacity for the state is reserved for solar that amount gets allocated to various people in various proportions certain amount is allocated only for communities like lawence where the people would like to benefit from it so that Kota once it is full that the legislation has to release more Kota they have not done it yet so that quota is almost done for City like Lawrence so that we were lucky enough to reserve certain amount for us the benefit for us is that whatever energy they produce they keep about 87 5% for them they get all the benefits the net meering the solar credits everything they keep themselves well and a half% of that they give it to city like lawence if they sign the contract saying that yes that c up we want to use so we get 12 and half% generally people get 10% we are getting 12 and half% and the contract is that we will continue to get this for 20 years with the ability to have the contract renewed every 5 years that is the deal we are going to get 122% cash only to be paid our electricity bills not it's not ordinary cash it's the credit to pay the bills and we can say that this is the account on which it applies it applies to that account we can change the account numbers whatever but it is something that we can use towards that account that is a very in the simplest way act presented in the shortest time is this the is a continuation of the process we've been talking about now for seemingly a year or two is this the same same issue we're talking about with Senator Pano when he was on the council promoted is this the same thing or is this different so the word solar is misleading so that we are talking about several Solar Products in the city one is the solar rooftops which is different this is solar credits that they will produce that we will get the money from this is orthogonal and can be overlapping with whatever we do it doesn't stop us from doing anything else we can stack it okay so we are getting pure benefits if you want to know the risk the risk is a very simple they stop producing those panels the panels go Kaka they they go belly up so what's the risk we don't get the credit that's it you're not obligated to pay them anything not now not for next 10 years not for 20 years nothing all that we did to tell the the state that we want to allocate that qua on our behalf they they they invest they do everything we get 12 and half% of that to us it's the simplest way I can present unfortunately I didn't have this benefit of presenting ask committee because they we confus them quite a it and that was apologize to them also but you got the benefit if you have any questions we'll be more