##VIDEO ID:CwNKBWb7Gsk## hello and welcome to the affordable housing trust meeting for um Littleton it's Tuesday August 20th 2024 at 6:30 p.m. and so I know that we have a quorum established this evening with um Matthew and Angus Sue and myself I believe um that uh that Mark and Bartlett will not be joining us there is a meeting regarding bodies of water this evening and they are at that meeting so but we are going to be proceeding and um if our other member Kim joins us that that'll make five so we're good so our guest speaker um was invited uh Rick um with uh Leo he's the engineering company with leoi companies um and I had asked Marin to inquire if he would be able to attend but I did not hear anything so we will not be having a guest speaker this evening but I will continue to to um inquire about getting him here all right hello Kim she can't hear me yet so I'm going to move on to item number three on our agenda which is um under 3A strategy 1.1 for lrap and we heard from Amy De Michelle that there are no new applicants or updates for this month so um unless anybody has any other comments or questions we can continue to move on hi Kim welcome sorry all the buttons were turned off today I like your ear muffs yeah thank you so um we have um the five of us as a quorum and Lucia is our staff member this evening great great so we're already on Item B um so derky Farmhouse perk testing is going to be done this Thursday August 22nd and so if you would like to attend just contact Bartlett for further details cuz he has been um working with the uh vendor to be able to to do that perk testing out there at Turkey Farm so it's that's exciting finally moving forward on that all right um so then on item C heger Homestead couple things happened in the last month with this one is that as the lottery vendor was working with applicants to be able to get the units sold um the 12% Ami unit um there was a calculation that the vendor had been using but um I think we may have discussed it a little bit the last time um and so that all worked itself out because the lottery provider was able to use um a different method uh for their calculation and and so the applicant was able to proceed oh good yep and I think the planning board took that on and really determined that we don't need to get into that level of of detail but rather to say we as the planning board um assigned this to you all to to work out and the methodology that that you use is is um something that you just need to make sure you use consistently yeah so then I'm sorry was there was there just one unit at 120 talking to me you know that I don't know um I I think there might may have been more than one unit but that was for that one particular that one was the was a there was a question on that one yeah exactly okay and then there was another update regarding Hager Homestead and that is the lottery was held on August 12th and so I'm just going to read this to you for the for the information and this is per Abby green who's a compliance officer um for that particular Lottery and she said that there are four households entered into the lottery for the 80% Ami unit and they did not receive any eligible applicants for the 60% Ami unit so the 60% unit will continue to be marketed on a first come first serve basis and interested buyers will be income screened by CB housing and eohc before being sent on to um to Diane with hegar and so was that Statewide for the 60% I'm pretty sure that it was um Boston metro area yep but not Littleton only definitely correct not not just littl only and there were only four applicants and none of them qualified interesting so that was for the 80% unit okay then there were no applicants for the 60% so what it's my understanding what um Liz was going to do was um to make that more well known through the COA and so again if you talk with any folks out there 55 plus because it is a a senior residential development who would be interested please have them go to sebb housing to look up information and see if perhaps they might qualify if there interested okay all right so we have uh I believe uh two guests with us this evening I just wanted to acknowledge um so uh Mary Ellen and then um U William Aton hi everyone I feel like I should just join the affordable housing trust group at this point if you need somebody else I feel like I'm just I'm ready go okay well we're getting ready to talk about that project de thank you William any any comments or questions before we keep going no okay all right so um moving on to to how to on road um so as you might recall there is no example that was provided by Jenny uh with respect to business terms and if you recall her advice was for us to to speak our mind so um this time frame that we're in right now is really to try and make sure that we defined everything that's important to us and then Jenny can go ahead and put that into the agreement so I went through again to determine what I felt were some of the things that were important and I wanted to just kind of take a step back so one of the things in in um any sort of contract is is really making sure that things that are are wanted by us are put into the agreement um and then it's up to the lawyers to put it into legal and and whatnot and so one of the things that that I wanted to make sure is that we just took it as as simple as that are there particular things that we want to make sure that the um agreement between ourselves and Habitat for Humanity um we're going to be um put into the agreement okay so does anyone have any comments because I I have a rather lengthy list and so i' like for others to be able to to go first and then we can document those and and have those go to Jenny I don't have anything gelen this is your turn to shine no I I honestly don't I was just interested to hear I just wrote down time frame with the question mark but I know that was part of your original um proposal that like you know that there had to be the project had to be completed within a certain amount of time meaning like it's not just an endless amount of time right like five years and they're still working on it or I don't know if that's going into it that was the only thing I had written down okay thank you Matthew you said that you had none no no and I believe we the time frame was something that we discussed with Jenny I believe when she was when she met with us and do you recall what the time frame was well she she basically no she basically said we we could we could you know set any sort of time frame that we desired that that we could find a a recourse if the if the house hadn't been built or substantial progress hadn't been made in some time period like two years okay it's it's absolutely something that we could add to the agreement and I I think Carolyn as I recall we spoke to her about it as well and I I don't remember whether said it's standard or it's just something that they have have done in the past but yeah I don't I don't think that's a a deal breaker no all right Sue you're muted no I can shake my head no I didn't have any all right and Inus how about you uh well I have concerns but I'm not entirely sure whether it's going to make much of a difference uh there's something there in their um write up or the delivery that she gave us that suggested that with Littleton things could be different because of the terrain of the property and uh that was a reason she gave for why uh a was able to get a little bit more than we're getting so I'm concerned that this terrain business could be more into anything they feel like or anything or any kind of problem could be wished away on uh the terrain of a property a stumbling block from us uh getting a fair deal so uh could could there be more explanation or detail or clarification of of what the terrain is for Littleton that's different from Air that's causing us to uh be hamstrung with uh a little bit more more expense so it sounds like what you're saying is that you would like to um not confirm a final agreement until after we've seen a site plan is that what you're saying well that may be part of it but um there was something about the terrain of the property making it difficult for them or making it uh cost a little bit more for us yeah so it's my understanding that it that comment has to do with whether or not there's ledge and so if they're I'm trying to find my notes on this hang on just a second I think she said if if there's ledge they won't be able to put in any kind of a basement but they may be able to put in a shed and that if um there is no ledge they should be able to add on a basement everybody else remember that correctly yeah and so I think that it it really hinges on the ledge component to it and that it it's not supposed to be an issue or a problem but rather this is the consequence as a result of of that being there okay um what would what other language would you like to see put in there that could again Safeguard us well I'm not entirely sure um we have ledge a doesn't have ledge so uh what what what what options do we have I mean it looks like there's none really yeah I guess I see this as a a sort of a construction contingency that they have to deal with depending on the this the lot and I'm sure that there are other lots that they've built on that have other issues like they can't put a septic in because of the groundwater or you know there's a Wetlands that encroaches on the basement or something and I think that we can talk to Carolyn about it but I'm it's one of those things that it strikes me as being out of their control if if they find ledge and they can't put in a basement they're not going to they're not going to um you know spend a lot of extra money blasting or hammering it away so like I I understand your concern but it it seems like it's something that a contractor if you were building a house with a contractor it would be very reasonable for the contractor to say this is the price of the house but if we hit ledge then we're going to have to either cut the basement or you're going to have to spend more money because I can't build a basement where there's ledge okay so we could certainly add it um as a request for a um what did you say Matthew a contingency yeah yeah ABS a contingency I'm not sure what you know I'm not sure what we you know I'm not I don't recall what the language says now um it I mean it sounds like the contingency is almost there already which is if there's no ledge we're going to put in a basement you know the contingency is if you know if we find ledge we're going to have to not spend the money on blasting in order to stay on budget and the basement goes away is it too much to ask for them to say if you find ledge or if there's something that changes your design that you have a conversation with us or is that too late at that point do we have to assume that they're going to make the best choices I think that that that's a part of this contingency that that we say if there is a significant change to the plan I think I remember we reading something like that there's a a significant change to the plan that they do need to come we have a time to review right yeah okay yeah because you know we who knows maybe somebody maybe we can find more money or maybe someone donates time to do the ledge work or whatever but right yeah let's talk about it before there's a significant change absolutely perfect and Anna My only concerns are that as we spoke about last meeting was that the one unit especially was universally designed so that if there was uh level access level parking all of that if that's not going to be built with raised above then access and interior is designed for wheelchair or you know Universal Design that everybody can actually function well there yes and that's actually one of the ones that I had as well is that I just want to make sure that um habitat identifies the Ada components in the proposed design so those are two different things actually Ada is one thing and Universal Design is another thing so it would be curious to see um 88 and Universal Design and so we were last talking about the um Ada and Universal Design and how we wanted to make sure that those components are in um uh that habitat identifies Ada and Universal Design components um for us for example like the ramp and you're talking about Universal Design right no thresholds wider doorways there's several things wheeling up to cabinets wheeling up to having a toilet be the right height seats being the right height so terrific thank you yep did you have any other um I was goingon to say sorry about that I didn't mean to cut through okay oh so for um Universal Design we could look through uh Professor Johnson's presentation to us last summer and Ada is a standard for most uh things you know like the Rams and so on yeah um how about we send that presentation to to Habitat so they can see what we're that that would be great the other thing also is um I mean I don't know if it's going to add any more cost to it or not is uh for Johnson to be sort of like a consultant to them to make sure that these things are put in place for instance those types of uh there's certain Design Elements like hidden doors and you know things like that that she does well um can be incorporated in those designs if possible yeah all right so I will add those as comments to Jenny Merill all right um let's see I think I asked everybody um so here are some of the ones that that I was thinking about this one is from this first one is actually from Bartlett to add information um that the land reverts back to littl if the project isn't completed within a certain amount of time and so that certain amount of time I think I heard earlier was within two years is that correct I I just threw that out I that was the number that I vaguely recall talking to Carolyn about or Jenny but um I don't think we need to necessarily I think you know up to five maybe would be okay with me if if they have issues with financing or who knows what um I don't think that this lot sitting vacant for a few extra years is going to be a terrible burden um and I want to give them every opportunity but we can also ask Carolyn what a reasonable time frame is for them I think five sounds reasonable obviously yeah um it's I mean looking at construction going around town it's it's hard to see one finished within two years in some cases but I think that uh five is reasonable um habitat has a very deep U well of support and they should be able to pull from that and be done in 5 years I mean 10 years is a stretch seven years is a stretch but five years sounds reasonable okay so some of the other ones include that we want to ensure the home stays affordable and perpetuity that we want to ensure there's local preference for Littleton residents and I want to make it clear in in the document that litton's contribution to the project included the $200,000 paid for the property and that any additional cash contribution um is in the range of a minimum of 68,000 to a maximum of 100,000 depending on the funds raised by habitat from other sources so if it is able to raise money from other sources then our last money in is no more or is at least 68,000 but no no more than 100,000 regarding the affordability I believe the agreement already states that it's going to be deed restricted I think so yeah yeah so it should be good so let me ask this I'm just gonna throw it out there now um 10 years 20 years from now with inflation and everything else that's going on a what what's the relative um concept of affordability and how do we Peg it down to make sure it remains so that is probably going to be difficult in my estimation but I just want to hear what other people think about that I believe it's Ami based I thought it was 40% Ami so average median income of the area okay I think it's actually 60 % 60 okay thank you 60% okay yeah and I have something in here as well regarding if if the homeowner needs to move okay that if the homeowner decides to move habitat can be one of the monitoring agents and the town is the other monitoring agent um she had mentioned this during the last meeting the monitoring agents have the right of first refus and habitat will search for another homeowner who earns less than 60% of area median income so again we want that in writing I didn't see that anywhere in the in in the agreement or in their RFP proposal so I I'd like that to be one of the business terms that we have included okay that's good let's see that habitat should not take additional funding from the Littleton CPC as that Source has already contributed funding for affordable housing to the Littleton affordable housing trust um and a lot of this is taken from uh the last meeting that we had with Carolyn that habitat should not or I'm sorry that homeowners have a one-year warranty and so I want specifics about what that warranty means so that we have it in writing um that homeowners go to first time home buyer class for the year before and the year after moving into the house that habitat has Financial classes and Financial Training with the homeowners so again putting that in writing that habitat starts a local project citizen committee um when building in Littleton and that um towns Town people are asked to join and to be a part of the process and that every homeowner um partners with a family Advocate from the town to learn about how to own a house in Littleton or to pay taxes where to go for the water bill Etc so something around that because again these are all things that she mentioned during her presentation but did not have in writing in the proposal and it's not in the agreement well done let's see so then in the area that was in our RFP around Energy Efficiency um that Habitat homes are designed to be fully electric and that they intend to put solar on all of their homes and so I I want them to expand on that section of their proposal to be able to give us more detail about what that really means and specifically with with the uh with that habitad mentioned that um that they would go back and identify all of the cost um to minimize surprises so I think in that specific section it would be good for them to talk about the um efficiency in the building systems with the appliances and she even mentioned an electric vehicle charger um and then Bartlett mentioned that the house would need ventilation it was if it was going to be a really tight house so I I think it's important that we ask that they identify what those costs are going to be and that it's included in the overall budget that we're all talking from the same page does that make sense yes the new stretch codes and the the all of that will lots of that will be covered that's the good news the town will it'll have to pass that part Y and I I do remember she said that as well so I'll add that in um let's see that a Littleton Community member can be part of the family selection board so I think that would be important this one we had a little bit of banter the last meeting we had and that is whether we want to require that a carport or a garage be built given their project in air they said that the town of air required them to build a garage in four of the houses that they've built there so what do you all think I mean given what little we know about the site and they they built it out Matthew you're probably the person who knows the most about you know the site itself do you think a carport or garage is important especially for um I was thinking the more for the accessibility aspect I think either a carport prob or a garage would be important for that unit I I they're going to have to hire someone to plow the road obviously the driveway I don't think it's going to be practical for them to shovel it it's going to be too long um and I think if someone is in a wheelchair or or a walker or has a hard time with Mobility trying to you know deal with the snow drifts that inevitably pile up when someone plows is going to be a real a real problem so um I think that if we can I think we should push for yeah some at least a carport for the disabled um unit okay all right I will add that in right um then this is another one to ask uh town counil about regarding volunteers uh to please add a CLA that of a volunteer home Builder is injured that they are compensated and or medical bills are paid via habitats Insurance not the towns so I just think it's important to keep us out of that if that happens and then as part of that time frame that for that they provide us with an estimated timeline so that we know at least where we should be and if we can actually achieve that that would be great and then I thought we had started this but I didn't see it adding language that Littleton requests the two units be placed on the subsidized housing inventory the Shi does anybody remember seeing that in anything okay yeah so we definitely wanted good catch so those are the the business terms that that I felt after having gone through it again that needed to be put in writing well done Anna thanks and I know that is a really good list I know you mentioned last time not that I know you mentioned the Landscaping not that there would be like additional Landscaping but just the preservation of you know any trees that could be preserved um you know in the interest of their privacy property as well as ours would be awesome yes thank you for mentioning that and looking at the the what is it called the LDA um there were just a couple of things there was something in there under uh section number 11 use of purchase price to clear title it talks about a $1,000 not to exceed a $1,000 amount for attorneys and that's just completely unclear to me so I wanted to ask Jenny about that um that means they're working for free because it's going to take a lot more work than A1 thousand doll worth of attorney work yeah I really wasn't quite sure what that meant that's didn't we take that with em and domain and clear the title when we took that that plot I don't know I think we I think we did as I recall the brown woods and all of that land was taken with eminent with friendly taking with eminent domain which completely clears the title so there may not be a lot for the lawyers to do on that respect I mean there may be other stuff they need to do but okay that's good to know thank you Matthew um so marelen going going back to your comment I did put a another note under item 19 and I'm not sure if this is the right place to put it um but a couple of things you just mentioned preservation of trees that's really great thank you and then the other one is screening on the property for the ab budding nebor and I didn't have your address readily handle readily available what what is what number are you want to had on we're 79 it doesn't really make a lot of sense I know because the numbers are wonky on our road okay well 81 us yeah it's very odd well I I added that in there so that that's in my note and I I will send that off as well as part of these changes thank you so much so that's what I was thinking and found for for business terms and I spoke with Mark and he did not have any and then Bartlett had the one so I think we're good so I think for the next step is I will just draft this up in an email uh send it to Jenny who should be coming back from her vacation I believe next week and then she can get started on that and she can work with Carolyn or or Carolyn's attorney on staff any questions on that no okay great well we are hopefully on our way all right so we can move on then to um item e which is the workshop tomorrow my gosh that's tomorrow Kim what are the plans for tomorrow so we're we're all set uh Mark and Dave and I met this morning to finalize and talk about who's going to start who's going to fill in what the touch points are um we were very thrilled with the nothing was unexpected with the that we sent out it was the numbers and the the questions were exactly what we thought we were going to talk about so that helps us and um mostly we will do a couple of anecdotal stories each and then ask for as many questions as possible Dave's idea was to give everyone an hour of his time um privately because we know that a lot of people aren't going to want to discuss their particulars in front of a group of people whether they're at one end of the spectrum or the other and so I agreed to do the same if they wanted to do something like that so I I think I think we're in good shape and we are both coming from it as a as an educational you know here's what you didn't know you didn't know situation we're excited and Anna's bringing cookies actually um given my new job that I just started two days ago not to be there I know I know so but I did get um 25 yummy cookies from donin's and some bottles of water and um Mark rambacher now has those so he will take them to the meeting tomorrow thank you yes thank you for all the work to to make it happen tomorrow and if for some reason I'm able to sneak away I will do that that's great and really we're kind of hoping that this is something that continues we realize it was a whole year since we did this before and so we're hoping that that's something that we can offer and have this conversation ongoing because new people will hear about it after this and more we all know that as soon as we go to something like this then we have more questions so I I hope that we can keep this continuing great well I can't wait to watch it on lctv yeah uh Kim how many people are you expecting you how many answered the survey or signed up about 20 okay and so we're not quite sure which ones of those will bring their Partners or our friend or which ones won't show up but we're guessing something like that okay yeah that's kind of nice it's a nice number a good number that's a good number yeah yeah will you be there yes good comes next to the front so we can help I think it'll be the two of you plus Mark Matthew can't attend um Angus you're out of town right so you can't attend correct I think it's just going to be the three of you there do any of you have any questions that we should pile onto what we intend to speak about or have we talked enough about it that you think that we're going to cover what you might consider important I think you're I think you're going to cover what we consider important absolutely and you know that people are going to come up with more questions so I hope so you know it you just have to sort of roll with it and see what happens Dave and I are chatty but it shouldn't be the Dave and Kim show but that's the thing that I think so many people as we've said all along don't know what their questions are until they start to hear something and then they've got the questions y I'm excited all right well I'm very excited for you and for the event tomorrow so I hope it goes really well I have one question will they set up for us or should we be there at noon to set up what's our or one as I recall from the last time we had to set up so depending on how you you want the room to be okay we'll do it okay yeah I'll a lot that time thank you I think last time we had like 45 yeah it was a big group and so this will be a smaller group but um you never know right right great Al righty well thank you for your work on that thanks Kim you're welcome I'll report back so the next item um is the next big discussion point we shared the budget back in June when we updated the action plan and it was on page 17 of the uh action plan that we wound up approving without the budget component to it and so each of us was supposed to have considered how we want the bud buet to look um for the future funding and um you all um have my version based off of that particular page in the action plan and so now we need to hear yours so that we can come to some agreement about what these numbers look like what we're proposing for future projects even though as we know we don't quite know what those are but if we were to say you know this is the type of project we want to fund we we can plug some numbers in so who would like to start I'm always impressed that you pull these things together because it's hard for me to join in and see what's missing until it's too late so I applaud this ditto um so thoughts on how do to structure our spending for the next five years you know like I say this I think every time we talk about which is I think that the best way for us to spend it is to leverage to use it as leverage to get more value out of something else just like habitat and so I have a hard time knowing you know if another habitat house came up and we had to and we spent $100,000 to get two affordable units in town to me that's a great result um so it's hard to know how to structure pay structure spending given that those I don't even know what those project s are how to go after them um you know one of the things we talked about briefly was we have 31 Shad street we have The derky Farmhouse um you know we probably we may have some other town-owned properties that could potentially be affordable do we want to spend some money to allocate money for either feasibility studies or potentially even you know turning those into affordable housing yeah I think that that makes complete sense to to actually pay for feasibility studies because for example with jerky Farm that's what we'll probably wind up having to do next once we get the perk testing done so maybe we should do one Fe you know do a fe one feasibility study a year for example um and budget for that because I suspect although I don't know I mean well and then there's the there's the Orchard House you know I think we had determined that um last December when we voted that we would not be doing anything else with antique homes and that's true that that's a good call yeah but 31 shadic is a good one and technically speaking because that's a hundred years old it it is technically an antique as well at this point but if that's something that this board wishes to to um to sidestep we can certainly do that Y and I think you know what there's a there's a good way to note that right if the if the foundation is sure if the electrical has been upgraded if the insulation has been upgraded if the windows aren't leted I mean there's there's antique houses that have all antique things and then there are old houses that have been upgr ated to 30 or 40 years old that maybe we don't blanket it is my point to that yes and again no age discrimination right know to to um the other role that Matthew has in terms of the select board right it it's going to be under their purview of the select board for homes like 31 chattic Street as to whether or not they want to put that back out on the market as at full market rate or not but um I know that we we did we did at least consider that yeah you know I I had a an interesting conversation with someone at pawns side the other day we were picking up some furniture and they told me that their rent and it was astronomical for a three bedroom 3400 or something like that a month which is more than my mortgage for my whole house rents are horrific yeah it just it it makes me want to push hard for any time that we can create a an affordable house deed restricted affordability we should do it because this was a young family with kids and they had no option except to spend more than half I'm sure their take-home on rent um it's a very unfortunate situation maybe that's our next seminar for young renters maybe maybe there's maybe there's something about why you know is there anything we can do to you know to get to the root of the cause of the expensive rents because I hear a lot of things about why but I don't know that any of it is real and some people really want to rent and that's okay they they because that's their that's their cost they don't have to think about anything else any maintenance any landscape so they understand even though the the rent is likely go up that's a more feasible thing for them for whatever reason others just are in the cycle that they've spent so much now they can't save the money to be able to put that payment down and so that's who I'd love to help well so you all have brought up a really a really good point about um Matthew you just mentioned you know um even if we can provide one house at a time to to folks so that's really part part of where some of the bigger projects come into play so as an example in other towns like Shirley when there were a lot of partners that were able to come together and they think they have what like a 45 unit um affordable development over in Shirley and so being able to work that angle for something that's larger again going back to that inventory of town property that I've been asking for and the Matthew's been asking for um to identify is there a larger parcel of land in Littleton that where we could do something like that because that is a different play as opposed to the oneoff here the oneoff there and one thing to think about is that people who rent a single family home are more likely to succeed and be able to acclimate into the community whereas if we have rentals or for condos that then get bought up and rented it creates a different thing take a look at those condos in boxboro um there's hundreds of them and what happens is they're owned by about 25 people hundreds hundreds of units are owned by about 25 people and so they're the ones who are perpetuating rentals for lots and lots of people because they're off the market now forever and so that what is what I I don't know how to control that and maybe this is something that we can talk about is if we do set up something in a multi situation it it's less likely that one person or one entity that we don't identify as one person buys many of them and then becomes a landlord anyway because we have a lot of rentals coming remember those rentals we have a lot of those is the project in Shirley like a public private partnership it is yes and did they did they find um not for-profit Builders or yes yeah okay um yeah I mean if we if we can use our funds to Kickstart something like that I agree like building 50 units is way way better than building one or two y yeah so um that particular one just trying to find it real quick I know that our Senator Jamie Eldridge was involved with it and it all came together probably took about six years to be able to to do the whole thing but it has been open for a couple of years and site surely a bad idea to talk to some of the builders in town to see I mean we could look and see who owns what land well I think the bottom line to it is that if if the town actually has a piece of property that is willing to donate for this particular type of project that's bigger than that's the way to go I think um for my opinion over the last eight years that I've been in town and and part of the planning board our local Builders just really don't have the interest and have not had the wherewithal to actually create the low-income the number of low-income units that we need yeah it's just not in their DNA and that's okay right so this is called Shirley Meadows it is a quote number two Life Community designed for households age 62 and older in debons Shirley Meadows includes 58 Apartments of supportive and affordable housing of which there are 55 one-bedrooms and three two-bedroom units this community is designed to address the immediate needs of older adults with incomes ranging from moderate 60% median income to extremely low at 30% um area median income and so a lot of organizations came together to to create this but this is the kind of project that I'm thinking about that if we were to able to procure a larger parcel of property um and again it doesn't have to be that huge I have the data about how many acres it took and it wasn't that many but then we can do something a little bit bigger and our investment doesn't necessarily have to be outrageously huge I mean obviously it would probably entail quite a bit of of the dollars that we have um but so that's that's kind of my two cents um and also because it takes so long we have time to get more dollars we don't have to come up with it all at the same time right right so that goes back to the whole question that fincom had asked a year ago and that was what are you guys doing with all that money you know and so if we can say this is the project that we're working toward hay incom and everybody else in town who might have questions this is what we're going to be spending our our project money on and we have to save up in order to do a project that size right the other one that I I really like um and I have visited this one it's called the Carlile Benfield Farms has anybody heard of it not me so it's in Carlile and it was um let's see it is 26 units they did five units at 30% Ami 17 at 60% Ami and four at 100% Ami it is also seniors and out of a I'm trying to do the math on this real quick out of a $425,000 uh development or excuse me contribution to a 9.9 million development so that was like a 4% contribution from from the town of carile okay so that's a really small amount 425,000 out of a $9.9 million project now granted that was like eight years ago but my point is that that's the kind of money that we could contribute right right so that's the larger project type that that I mentioned um in the numbers that I put together to say well if we ever did want to do a large siiz project maybe by the year 2627 which is two years down the road maybe we would have something identified and we'd have to contribute a large sum of money so that's where that big number in the table for 26 27 of $750,000 comes into play you know that's say if we were to have a big project and then again we could have smaller projects like we're doing now on toah hadwan jerky may be a small it might be a mediumsized project but we can decide how much we want to to pay for it I mean to me I I kind of look at this as well I've got the next five years coming up and I've got my budget and I want to go on vacation well where where do I want to go right well I think I'm going to want to go to someplace really close multiple times so that's my small project and then I'm going to want to go on a 30-day cruise down to South America or something right that's my really big one so same kind of thing for us what do we want to do because we do need to put something down and we can change our mind but I think it's just important to be able to have something that we can talk to speak about so I think that we're already doing some of things that we're supposed to do really we doing the uh mini projects um your Dy the toan and we could put in an aspirational project uh perhaps a plan for maybe a 25 unit if there's land available and we want to be saving up towards that so that when we find a developer it's not a scramble to start putting money together um I'm not sure if um because all these things are there we just need to uh be able to have the funds available to make a down payment for a big project so perhaps that's something that um we could document that it's an aspirational we we don't have to say that you know just put it in that's a it's a goal that we're uh heading towards so perhaps that might be um something what do others think about angus's idea that makes sense and presenting it at Town imagine presenting that when we haven't gotten through King Street and the others so we have to be thoughtful about how we present that and what the what the benefit would be to the people who we can't get served there I think I think that's going to be an important issue can't get served there being at 550 or at okay or the mill right I mean every time I talk about affordable housing or any housing oh right so and if we are introducing new ideas we have to think there are people who won't be served because of these three reasons and that's why we're continuing to look for projects beyond the 10-year project that we already have here and I think that's prudent I think it's wise to consider that um I think one of the things that um fincom is concerned about was us having a big piggy bank and basically not using not using the money and I think what Angus just described is very much like uh a um a reserve fund you know like a like a reserve fund or a um what do they call it a sorry I'm blanking on the term preparedness right yeah yeah like a you know a yeah yeah so like something that we contribute to every year a stabilization fund so that if we do end up with um needing to put $150,000 or $250,000 into a development as seed money we don't get we don't hit the CPC so hard that year um and and and so this might not be the right time to discuss it if we're going to finalize the budget um but but it it strikes me that having that approach seems prudent agreed I think that fincom would say well you need to identify a Target like their stabilization funds have very specific things that they can be spent on you're just asking for like us to put aside money for some blue sky project that may or may not come down the pike can we so I'm sorry Matthew can we get a list of the town-owned property that right that we can we can Target right and say well there are 37 toown properties bigger than this and it occurs to us that should they ever need to be sold for any reason we have identified a use for them so Matthew as a select board member um you know that you you have tried to get this list and we were able to get the list back in June and Mark and I had a discussion with uh Town Administrator dougen about it and so he was then going to talk to the assessor's office about some of the the properties on the list um is it appropriate for us to ask Mr dougen To Be our guest speaker so that we can inquire more about some of these properties so I think that he would say yeah he he'd love to but I think he would say I don't know anything about him we we need to talk to probably either have Kathy the assessor Andor Marin you know to discuss these plots so that we we because because Jim won't have the information about what we can and can't do with them you know um Kathy will know why we own them and what they're worth and Marin will know whether or not they're anr or they have Frontage and you know all the things about how we can develop them should we put that for an agenda for two months from now okay so in October yeah and I and I think it probably would be wise to make sure that all the parties have that list ahead of time and you know I think we'll probably only want to discuss things over an acre or two or something like that so there may only be a handful of them that we right we can look at but but it's public record I can pull them yeah but I don't know the things that Kathy will know about them right so having her will be yeah also prudent so from a timing standpoint what has typically been a roadblock to making progress on something like this is the um twice a year town meeting and and staff gets really bogged bogged yes so is a November a better time for someone like Kathy to be brought in from a town meeting standpoint it would be since since town meeting happens on the 1 or something of November or or no it's like early October so that might be better but I don't know whether she has other financial responsibilities year ends and so forth um but I you know like look that you know she's an employee of the town and this is one of the things that we can ask her to do I think it's totally appropriate for us to ask her to participate in this discussion and especially with two months of warning it seems like reasonable ask and if we give her the information beforehand and we qualify what we need to be talking about that seems reasonable as well when you received that list before did you see a visual of it or was it a list it was just a data list can we get a because when when I pull it it's going to say zero to had one yeah it's not going to have a number 90% of the time which so it's not identified on any map unless they have it so that would be helpful for us to bring it to them and discuss okay so we see these five Lots all scattered around and we've highlighted the ones we'd love to consider and we could give her that ahead of time and that would certainly be a lot more helpful for all of us to realize how many little pieces of land that there are by the lake that are never going to be useful to anybody other than a neighbor I can speak to Jim and and and begin the process of trying to find a way to get that information in a you know in a parsable form for us yeah I I think he had I think we have it actually okay nice yeah all right so let me just kind of walk through what I heard that folks would like to do and and to Inus any comments before I I do that kind of summarize uh no I just have one other little thing um we we've talked about the big projects and everything but uh we recently went up on the amounts that we dispersed to um the lp people I just want to make sure that I it's probably already done on uh but I just want to assure that um this is put in a rolling amount over the next five years in our budget so that uh it's um identified and there yes so um there is a line in the proposed budget that I um provided to everybody in June and it's grant for ELP that every year for the next 5 years we would make an ask at town meeting or CPC dollars of90 $90,000 exactly means that that amount doesn't increase um but that would be our annual ask and then we could still make other requests of CPC between now and then and is it I'm sorry that I don't know the answer to this it's not just guaranteed that we get that even if we ask for it every year correct right because right has to say yes and voters and it has to be there right okay well and then the other thing is that some years we may not make the 15 number that gives us a 990,000 but our ask still has to be 90,000 I think what we said is that as an example if we only spend 70,000 this year next year because we would still have 20 for this particular item that we can only ask for 70 yeah exactly yeah um so sue how about you any thoughts on what we've been discussing nothing new to add no I agree with everybody that a big project would be a good thing to start saving for okay identifying the big project is another story yes so what I heard is that um we can explore this idea of an aspirational project and that in order to do that we need to um see a map and a list of the town-owned properties so that we can in advance determine um which ones we would be interested in exploring right and then once we've done that we can provide a short list that we have questions about and invite assessor Kathy to come in either an October November time frame to discuss more detail about what those properties could potentially entail and Marin could perhaps contribute to what she knows about the property as well is that what we just said yeah okay yes yeah great and then for finom some point bless you we we do want to get back to fincom so would you see getting back to fincom at the by the end of the year yeah the more I think if we can Define it the better we can Define it yes we can absolutely speak to them after town meeting I think that's that's appropriate and the budget cycle will begin then too so that's a good time to talk to them about it okay all right great well thanks everybody for contributing into that discussion all right if nothing else on that topic then let's move on to the next one which is also related to CPC um Lucia sent out an email to everybody last week on the 14th and it was a an email from me that basically is an email to go to CPC saying for our joint agreement this is how much money was spent last year and it it's basically a report to CPC um does anyone have any questions or comments about that I'm just thrilled you're on this board I've got one more year um and so any if there are no comments or questions um could I get a motion to approve this um to send to CPC so moved second all right so Angus and Sue thank you um let's see all in favor Matthew I Kim yes I Angus I to I Anna's an I so so thank you I'll go ahead and forward that on to uh chair Mueller for CPC right I'm just have to do that once a year and then I will also follow up with Michelle again in um Finance to see if those dollars have been moved over from the CPC account to the affordable housing trust account let's see okay so item C the newsletter Sue again thank you so much for having written up our uh newsletter item the last two months so I would propose that we do something every other month as a contribution to the newsletter and since we skipped the August submission that means we need something written up to submit in September for the October publication so since there are 12 months six of us left since Sue's already done two each of us gets to do one over the course of the next year so who would like to write the one for September I'll try okay I'll try it okay so I may need help well we have an expert right Sue she can guide I was just going to say I'll help you if you need help no I'll help I'll help Kim all right and then um let's just go ahead and kind of finish it up who would like to volunteer for November I'll do it Angus for November and then January 2025 wait a minute Mark and Bartlett are escaping yeah g to escape I'm giving you all the opportunity to pick first I'll do January oh they love that January and then um let's see we'll give March May and July those are all busy months so um I will take March and then we'll give Bartlett May and Mark July all right so there mark won that game well he's gonna have some work to do with toah had one so that's true that's true all right great well thank you and and yeah Kim I'm happy to help as well for this next one and then Angus great yeah I'm I'm willing to help anybody that right thank you so now we're on to item e our trusty updates and updates relevant for us from anybody nope okay all right seeing none let's keep moving we are on item F and so the July 23rd minutes any comments or questions look looked accurate and correct to me me too anyone like to make a motion motion to approve the minutes from the August meeting uh no is it a sorry July meeting July 23rd I'll second that I'll second the meet the motion to approve the July minutes Kim and Matthew thank you all right so all those in favor Sue yesus yes Kim yes and Matthew yes Anna a yes all right so we got those approved all right so under G we're supposed to identify the guest speaker for the next time around which is our September meeting and so I would like to say that at the Thursday September 12th meeting the planning board I believe is supposed to have folks in from um leoi company to provide an update um so if you all are interested in tuning in or attending that meeting please feel free um but I will I will keep asking for wreck but if anybody has somebody else that you'd rather have bring as a guest speaker please let me know okay all right so our next meeting is scheduled for THS excuse me Tuesday September 17th at 6:30 p.m. is anyone not able to attend that day in time good all right so I think that is our next meeting and unless anybody has anything else we can adjourn motion to adjourn second