uh good evening and welcome to the Shaker Lane School building committee meeting for March 12th 2024 I'm Steve more chairman of the committee and I call this meeting to order at 603 we have two items on the agenda for this evening's meeting the first is to review two designer services submissions from Studio G and fold Alexander Architects a vote to recommend a vendor to the Massachusetts school building authority on behalf of the Shaker Lane School building committee the second is any other action uh needed to be taken by the committee at the January uh 9th meeting the committee voted five members to serve on the designer selection committee and they consist of uh Kelly feny uh Stacy de Maris Chuck D Coast Steve vuy and Brian Ferrara so I'll now turn the uh meeting over to Ryan uh to provide the recommendation of the designer selection subcommittee okay um so thank you everyone uh so um we have two proposals uh before you uh for um uh the designer uh services first is fold Alexander Architects and the other is Studio G so um I guess um Steve Moore I guess the question um would be is do you uh we've got um five uh five members of the subcommittee uh I think four are in attendance so would you want to so that we have that discussion um among the four of us in attendance oh Stacy's coming on hold on so I guess my question is have you uh as a subcommittee met to review and and uh vote on a preferred uh firm no this is the this is our first meeting oh okay and and Stephen just be careful where the way that the msba notes things you're not voting you're recommending you're you guys are having a discussion tonight based on the two proposals and it's really how you all feel about what you read based on what you know the project is going to be the scope of the work a new new elementary school added renovation Elementary School seeing the experience that these firms have had what they're showed you in their proposal um what what do you all feel about it that's that's kind of the gist of what tonight is and at the end I'll get into a little bit more detail about what actually happens on the 26th but you guys need to have a good discussion about how you all receive reive the proposals and what you all think about it thanks Mark did uh did we lose Ryan um I'm back on I'm back on I don't know what happened Frozen you're Frozen with your question okay I don't know what happened so uh anyway um so I think to Steve Moos to my earlier point I think this is the the purpose of this meeting to discuss it among um the five subcommittee members uh now that they've had the opportunity to review the proposals and uh come forward with a presumably a recommendation to uh the msba but um with with a a first choice and presumably a second choice because from what I understand from Mark Stafford is that ultimately this will be a decision of um the MSB sub the subgroup of the msba but they will take our recommendation into consideration as part of that decision is that safe to say Mark yes that is correct I mean again I'll go over it a little bit more detail at the end and the information that was sent out on an email the other day but you guys have all the input they're going to look to you for comments questions as they go through a review they the 9 10 11 I don't know how many people 12 people that are on the designer selection panel um will be re at the meeting um if they all show up and they're going to be making they they're going to do a review themselves and they're going to do an actual ranking they're going to do a vote of you know three points two points whatever but as part of that that discussion on the 26 they want your input and that input's going to be based on what we discussed so Mark um are we do we need to provide minutes from tonight tonight's meeting no not necessarily to the meeting on the 26 but they're gonna they're gonna the MSB is going to run the show on the 26 you're going to be present it's open to the public um and and I know C Mark said he wanted to be there he can be there both Architects can be there and listen to the conversation we're there but we really don't do any input at the meeting and all we're there just to see how it all goes so you know you all need to have a discussion tonight about what you feel is good better and different in both of the proposals they may ask you questions I've been in designer selection panel meetings where the districts had no comment you know maybe they do their ranking and it's like just a an example F go Alexander comes out ranked number one to them you all might feel fine go is best for the job so you don't you have any comment no comment because you're G to get kind of what you want if it's the other way around it's a discussion with them as well they're going to want comments and and in input from you just be very careful not to say that you ranked them or voted on them you reviewed them for a recommendation of what you feel would be best for the project and they can be back and forth with the committee but ultimately it you will be voting you will be voting on them on the 26th you'll be giving them a ranking at that point along with the panel and then once the numbers come out um if you're vly against it they'll be open to that comment if you're not they'll just proceed and another interesting piece and I'm getting ahead of myself but we might as well talk about an now because there's only two firms they may opt to not interview they may say the ranking ends up with f go Alexander number one or Studio G number one they may not need to interview because there's only two firms and they can just proceed going forward from that point I will say we would recommend interviewing because you're all going to be working with the selected firm for the next five years it would be good to hear them and see who the project manager day-to-day person's going to be listen to them and see you know you're can to have a strong we're all going to have a strong relationship with them for a bunch of years so that's a recommendation we would make that they should go through the process because you've gotten two great proposals but you haven't met the people that you're going to be working with so um that would be our recommendation so what I had said at the end it's kind of been sent now so uh Stacy has a question um yes I just wanted to see so do I need to me taking notes on this can I just clarify that am I taking notes for this meeting Stacy I can so yeah don't worry about it I can take the minutes for this one yeah are you sure I just it's okay no yeah that's not s okay yeah it is it is being recorded it is an official group under the building committee you are the subcommittee for the design so yes you should there should be minutes and there's ever a question you know later on but uh your your comments about the proposals are what you'll have a discussion about tonight and then I can go again over the stuff a little more more detailed at the end but you guys can have a discussion about how you felt about the proposals you know Marcus this is really interesting it's really when I went through the proposals it was it was hard for me because without having somebody to talk to from one of these companies you're you're you're making assumptions and I mean you know personally I I felt both proposals were were very well done and so I don't know there's not a a lot of differentiating criteria that I found in both proposals which makes it more difficult but uh you know for me the only one that the only thing that keeps resonating with me is uh Studio G uh has appeared to uh have worked on more elementary school projects which you know I guess says something to me but that's certainly me there's a lot more to this than that but U you know I guess that's that's all I have at this point in time I mean they're they're both organized they're they're Staffing they're well qualified uh certainly interested to hear some other comments and just to say as a group as everybody else talks about how they feel about it that could be the comment you make to the msba at the 26th G we really like both ferns would like to hear from them you know would like to interview them and and hear what they have to say and then get a better feeling about how to rank them because when you interview them it's kind of when I was on the architecture side it's kind of tough they rank you right there you know so if there's three firms going for an interview and you interview they literally rank you three two and one and if you end up being number three you're kind of like you know that didn't go too well so they do rank you right away so I think uh that's an absolute option uh to get a better sense of not just read a proposal as I said earlier how you might be able to get along with people that you might be working with for a while Mar if we would to do that um how much would that delay the process because any other any other building projects we've done um I feel like we've we've done exactly that we've had people in we've actually been in a room not on a zoom um where they would they've been able to rather than just give us a 76 slide deck theyve been able to present something to us and um how I just I I feel like I feel a little short changed being part of this process um to I kind of agree with what what Kelly had said as far as both both firms seeming to be adequate and I think would be in good hands with either um and I I did notice as Kelly mentioned more elementary schools by Studio G but on the other hand fine Gold's renovation plan looked like the better renovation plan so I I I uh I I personally would prefer to have uh some sort of interaction in person uh where they could um sell sell themselves to us no absolutely and back to the good old days when they used to do this all in person and they they don't do that anymore again that's a strong recommendation that can come from you folks to the msba and because you've got two they have those options about selecting one right away from the meeting on the 26th or have an interview so your comments then can we really like to hear from them and they'll they'll abide by that thank you and in looking at the two proposals I mean it's pretty clear that the people involved have been doing this for a long time with the same firm a lot of them had 20 years experience with the same firm so I think that was kind of a wash um the educational aspect of it all I have to defer to to Kelly and the professionals here the to go through that but I kind of concentrated on and Chuck kind of mention this was the two plans the the renovation piece against the new construction piece and the ideas that they had and I was kind of leaning toward fold and looking at that Renault piece that they had I thought it was keeping a lot of because when when you look at the building and you look at the the um where the auditorium is that main entrance there I mean it's a pretty nice looking building right there I know the inside is not very nice but the the outside is very is is pretty decent and I think that plan from fine gold keeps more of that facade than the other one that I saw so I I I guess I'm leaning toward fine gold for the uh potential of the renovation I they're both like two-story buildings that they're building but even the renovation piece for Studio G looked more like a new building most of it was new construction anyways way way in the back so that's that's my opinion and and that's that's a very good observation Steve but be careful those are very very very preliminary yeah oh I know I know you know they they put the pretty pictures out at the end of the brochure just to grab and you can tell that these things are so cie cut it because it's so they're so similar this the presentation the the application from the state then the rest of it's you know what you need to do so yeah it's a great point that you bring up it's great to see what they're thinking about because that will impact maybe what your thoughts are but just just I have to say it's very preliminary oh I know Stacey did you have another question your hand is still up or uh yeah no I just wanted to add to um let me just lower my hand there um yeah I mean I feel very similarly to to Chuck and Kelly that I think it would be really great for us to get um these guys in front of us just so we can get a feel for them I know it really helped with um getting you guys on board just getting a feel for like how everybody's working together um so I think the only thing that I noticed that was a big difference that just hasn't been mentioned yet is was just um the number of Architects that both of the firms have and Mark you might be able to speak a little better to this if that's something we need to pay attention to um because fold has 23 Architects which seems like a pretty substantial amount of sources for us to have considering potentially the comp complexity of the project if we're going to be doing different locations or renovating um whereas Studio G I think they had like eight architects so they do have very different um size teams um so I don't know if that's something we need to consider too depending on the scope of the project but I did notice that was kind of a big difference between them and Stacy that's an another excellent point a fine gold is definitely a bigger firm in studiog G um I don't remember reading fine go fine go proposal it might have been in there about their availability but CDG made it very very clear that they're ready to start like right away they're available so many projects in the MSB process they have are towards the end of building so they have a whole team ready to go so I think that can impact the number of people that work on it um so there is a smaller firm versus a larger firm but the the team that works in it from F girl Alexander certainly won't be all 23 Architects they'll be you know you'll see and again that this will be coming out on an interview you'll have a project senior project manager project manager is a day-to-day person you work with all the time you'll have the principal that'll be overseeing all that we'll pop in every now and then so the teams initially through the feasibility stage in schematic are usually relatively small anyway until you get to the document phase with design development construction documents Etc so um but that's a very good point they are one firm is a little bit bigger than the other I don't know if that really impacts what their value can be um so no no offense Mark but uh more Architects doesn't always mean a better project unique recovering Architects so don't not you kind of touched on this Mark how many projects does each of the firms have going right now I mean they both in um projects right going on they they do I don't remember off the top of my head what fine goals got going on but they are both of them are involved in the process and have done the SP projects but if they're closing out projects that's totally different than beginning the project so um I think they're both ready to go if they make if they're submitting a proposal for a project they're available to start the project okay I just SPO may have said it I don't remember hearing it or reading it but I know Studio G and their maybe their opening letter said we're ready to start sires did you want to add to that yeah I just want to mention that Studio G primarily does school work and whereas uh fine gold Alexander does other projects too so they like you said you know they have a bigger bench but they do more different kinds of work and studio is almost specialized in mostly school work it's good input Michelle I know you're up against it did you wanna did you want to mention anything no no I actually am just looking this because I wasn't part of the subcommittee I was kind of leaving this up to everyone else um to look at them so I just took a look at them earlier before I got here no nothing to add I think I just said for my little uh ad here um I think I Echo some of the sen I'm in here I agree with Kelly both both presentations were good both of them um I think could do the job I um I also know the same thing that Stacy did which it seems as if um bold Alexander is a little bit bigger uh which may provide some additional capacity uh when necessary and um and I I think the the other part of it um I I'm familiar with a couple of the projects um living in Arlington um my children went to uh two of the schools that they renovated uh here uh the Gibb school and the Hardy school both of which um I know the design team only does a portion of of that work but I have to say that I've been was very much impressed with um what they have done especially uh one of the schools was just a full gut renovation and and the thoughtful design that they presented to it it's just um uh just kind of being able to experience the their work firstand it's um it's impressive um that said uh so Mark is it your is it your thought that and I think I hear this from the rest of the group that we should maybe be looking to try to schedule another call um do an interview would you want to do it in person do we want to do it via Zoom but um and I think and Chuck asked the question which was I don't know if we quite addressed that does that impact our timeline in any way well the msba already has it scheduled out that the DSP meetings on the not 26th and then the interviews are on April 9th so they already have that all scheduled out so it shouldn't impact any any changes in the schedule if you opt not to interview you saved a couple of weeks but it's minuscule in the whole the whole scheme of things when we go forward um again to respect Michelle's time um can oh um shes what what what do you got B you're unmute yeah sorry if you look at tab nine of the both proposals that will give you the you know the amount of work they have you know current work that they working on okay list the number of projects in tab n um if I could just share the screen for a second I just want to go over that emphasize some of the points on that um email that came out from Robin the other day you should be able to share it I think see if you can do Mark yeah that first uh Bullet at the end of page one is interesting I don't see the share thing pop up usually that something pops up for me to click okay should be green on the bottom no got it got it got it thank you um so if you all can see the email that went out to Rob and I just want to highlight a couple of things that this is really what the discussion is is going to entail as part of the um as part of the meeting um so I know I know um see Mark want to know Joy so just emphasized if they are open to the public they don't anticipate going into to Executive session um there resp respond to the services as well as the member of the public are welcome to attend the meetings um and listen to the discussion um all members of the panel including the three representatives from Littleton are welcomed and encouraged to offer information make comments and ask questions which hopefully will come out of what the discussion is tonight um it can even be listen we think they're both close we want to interview them it could be as simple and short as that um during the meeting says that they consider the applications for the proposed project uh at the conclusion of the discussion each member of the D the DSP design selection including the district has the opportunity to vote on the applicants um and that's typically when they interview but if there's like six firms they'll put it down at three and then they'll interview the three seeing that we have the two we're most likely gonna rank one and rank one and one two and they're going to interview you know but I just wanted to make sure after the points of tally the DB will decide whether the top three things in the way whether the top three choices of of to authoriz J to negotiate negoti to begin negotiations to award the contract to the top firm or to interview so and that's the attachment that was headed to it too but I wanted to highlight just those those pieces so they encourage you know you to answer ask questions they um they welcome comments and and and um from the Representatives but you don't have to because you are going to rank them because if you want to interview them then I think that's the one thing you really need to emphasize with them would' like to to hear from them and I think that's probably a good way of going about it um now I get so Mark remind me DSP is uh about what 16 people yeah I think I think the last time I I read it was about 15 not all 15 show up and I think they only require four for a quorum the most times I've gone you get eight or nine or 10 people so they usually do all show up and they usually all talk so I I don't think Michelle brought it up earlier I don't think there was a scheduled time set out yet it's usually 10 or 10:30 in the morning and it is a zoom meeting um but they go for like an hour um because they do all want to speak and they do all want to talk about what's going on they do like to hear from you but they they run the show until they kind of ask questions from you guys um then you make a ranking and then like I said we're two firms I think the emphasis should be you want to hear from them I emailed Robin and asked her and I think I might have mentioned this Mark when we talked she said that we are at the moment we're the only people who have we're the only school that's on the agenda for that day so she's anticipating our meeting to be at like 8:25 in the morning oh it's earlier sorry okay yeah and then but she said she would update us next week that's at the moment we're the only um school on the docket okay that's interesting Mark uh Robin sent us an email today and in the first bullet I'm just trying to interpret it it says other than for administrative purposes the owner's project manager District personnel and DSP members including District representatives are prohibited from contacting communicating or discussing designer selection for this potential project in any way so what is do that mean I think I think that means we you can't talk to anybody from fine gold or Studio G that's that's my interpretation of that because we we can I mean I've done it on multiple projects with the msba where we have conversations with districts just like this SES is that is that your inter that's correct we yeah none of us can talk to the the two uh applicants at this point yeah typically it's h you can't talk to either applicant after the RFP goes out yeah so we we really yeah that's kind of not worded great because that's I think that's what the yeah anyway the applicant during any officially convened meeting of the gbaa so we're not supposed to speak to the two firms or you know that cented proposals which we don't yeah but guys you guys aren't talking to them right no no but that that includes all of us obviously right everybody yes exactly exactly so we really can't interview them them then say again we cannot interview them oh no no you can once you're in an official meeting with the DSP you can make the recommendation to interview them once you're with the msba you can't do things outside of the msba well that would that would prolong the decision then if we do that it's already built in I think we should just go with it I'm so I'm glad Chuck asked it and it's built in to the timeline on the N it is built in there's no there's no change for it if for some reason it's emphasized on the 26 you know you're going to take one of the two of them and they don't want to interview them and and the MSB is adamant about that then you just start negotiations but I think from what I'm hearing from you all tonight I would think you all want to hear from them so I would make that the the emphasis of your your information your comments and any any your questions that you might ask the GSB people on the 26 that you know you can even put it in the form of a question if you want hey is it you know we really like to interview can we interview you know okay that makes sense yeah back Mark Mark do we do we vote to uh make that recommendation vote tonight to make the recommendation for interviewing yeah you certainly can do that again it's part of your discussion tonight how you want to approach um how you want to approach the DSP meeting with the msba absolutely I mean does it need to be a vote or is it just a discussion sir what's your take on that I don't think it does it need to be a formal vote it could be a formal vote that you know you would like to have a interview process and not just short listing of the they you like to have the interview itself but but at this meeting do they have to take an official vote to say that they don't need to you really don't need to take any and this it's the only thing is yes you met and because there's no short listing really speaking you know you're not ranking them one or two or three or four so I think that's that's the reason of this purpose of this meeting usually is to rank them but in this case you know it's again not a ranking but the committee members can have a joint discussion as to what they would like to do or at the DSP meeting itself you still have each three uh voices you all three can decide three different two different ways at that point if you so choose to because each of them have to say why you like the presentation after the presentation and what you like about the presentation so you can have those comments and discussion later on too okay okay just a consensus yeah can you can you all see my screen with the highlighted pieces here as well yep so this was this was all this information was included in the RFS but it was also sent out as part of the the requirements procedures and acknowledgement for um that that Robin sent out the other day um so again it's just things like prior experience best you know Illuminating you guys have Illustrated you guys have read all this past performances if any quality projects designs all that other stuff um we have a form that we're working on currently and a reference check that we're working on that we'll have ready for the msba by the 19th they needed a week before the meeting they use that information to to assess you know um the two proposals uh you know Geographic proximity anything else you you think of um this is the form that we have for our review with their subc Consultants um if they met every bit of the criteria that was put in The Proposal so that one's pretty much underway and done we have Mark if if you're talking about a a form that you're I mean all we see on the uh you're just sharing the uh email you're not sharing a form oh sorry sorry I missed it that's why I asked it you you don't see the The Item B no no okay see this is sharing sh the screen H about now okay all right sorry that's what I was that's what I talked to before again this this was in the RFS and this is just more things to think about when you're reviewing the the proposals but a lot of the information that's in there can you see this one yep y the colored one yes okay that's that's the start of our review of all the information that they have to do for um subc Consultants everything that has to meet the requirements of the RFS The Proposal in the application so we've got this started and there's a whole reference check for the two firms that we're undergoing right now that will be ready to go um by the 19th they needed a week before so they can acknowledge exactly what's going on um so that's that's kind of it those are the two things I wanted to emphasize at the end it sounds like you all had a good opportunity to review things and have an opinion which is great and what the strongest thing coming out of tonight in my mind is you want to interview them which I think is great it seems like we have it seems like we have our our plan forward I don't know if anyone else has any questions but at least for the three people representing um the the committee I think we know what our charges would just attend the meeting and ask if we can set up interviews can I just say too um sorry let me get my video on kind of B around here um depending on what time the the meeting's at I would love to be there I think just when Steve called he said it was at a time that I already had an appointment that I can't reschedule so hopefully I can be there um if if Michelle like I think Michelle said it was gonna be like 8 o'clock or 8:45 or something so yeah they'll they'll confirm that um they'll confirm that with us I'm sure sooner than later I don't know if they'll do it on the 19th once we submit the information that we have to get to them they'll confirm it but they'll send it out to Ryan and everybody else and once they have the the time set up okay any other thoughts comments concerns quaries questions no I'm good thank you all for taking the time to review everything and and uh be here tonight I know backtack you know weekly meetings is is not the best but you know we're beginning now and this is exciting you know we're going to get I take a good firm out of this and then we'll hit the ground running with uh who ultimately is chosen but uh the 26 will be listening to a lot of msba information you guys can comment whatever you feel is you know um required uh you'll make a ranking and then I think we should really emphasize you want to interview them and we go sounds Mark and Sh thanks for your guidance on this um do we have a motion to adjourn I moved second second Kelly yeah all in favor I I great evening thanks it's still light out