okay all right good evening everyone good evening all right this meeting is being held in accordance with the open public meetings act an adequate notice of this meeting has been provided as required by law specifically the revised annual notice was emailed for the West Essex Tribune and the Star Ledger on January 2nd 2024 and the 48 hour notice was emailed to the West EIC Tribune and the Star Ledger on March 2024 the agenda and resolutions for the meeting are available at www. Livingston nj.org certain portions of this meeting may be closed to the public for the purpose of personnel Andor other matters as outlined in the Sunshine Law decisions made Andor discussed in closed session will be made known to the public at a later time notice to members of the governing body and Township staff any use of electronic devices during this meeting shall be used solely for the purposes of Township business and any Communications are subject to the open public records act to the extent possible this evening's Township of living Livingston council meeting will be live streamed via Facebook at www.fb.com Livingston Township NJ questions or comments will be accepted by emailing live comments Livingston nj.org by 4M on the day of the meeting each speaker should follow the rules of order in Livingston code section 2-15 and emailed to the West essics Tribune and the Star Ledger uh roll call please council member bani here Vieira pres kleene here Deputy Mayor Reinhardt here mayor Anthony here uh we'd like to stand for a moment of silence in the Pledge of Allegiance for the moment of silence uh please remember in your thoughts and prayers Ralph Ray's mother um of our uh longtime resident of Livingston uh she was 101 years old I pledge Ali to the United States of America to the stand God indivisible andice for all okay there'll be uh there'll be no Eileen Fishman is not here tonight I don't believe so we're going to skip over the Essex County updates uh the next uh on the agenda we have proclamations and presentations we do have the chess club here tonight Who's made us so proud uh number one in the State [Applause] uh uh we do have a uh presentation a proclamation for everyone here tonight um as a uh chess Enthusiast myself but not very good and a regular attendant at chess and bagels on Saturday um I know what you guys are doing it's amazing um I've I've played I think with two of you um but anyway we do have I have been asked by the chess team to before we give the proclamation that you would like to say a couple words and make a presentation of your own so what uh is the whole team coming up to make the presentation yes yeah okay all right once you come up we have a microphone over [Applause] here uh hello everyone um good evening uh I am Eric wo uh yeah is it my height uh no just maybe a bit taller higher okay let's try that again good evening everyone um I'm Eric wo the president of the LHS chess club and one of the team captains for this year and first we want to thank mayor Anthony and the Livingston Town Council for inviting us tonight and and celebrating this special event with us and first we want to thank Mr Peko right there without him this season um would not have been uh so successful because Mr Peko has not only mentored us coached us inspired us he has also fed us very delicious pizza and he epitomizes dedication in fact um the week of the state tournament Mr pllo was expecting a baby and he still came with us to both days of the tournament and he managed to watch us win the state championship for the second year in a row and the baby didn't come so Mr Peko got to share in with all the fun so we would just like to express our gratitude to Mr pllo and we invite him up to receive this gift Roger would um like to share a few words okay now I'm going to talk a little about a season recap and what we did during the season and what we are still hoping to do later first of all as you guys already know from last year we won the state tournament last year and we are were looking for even greater success this year which I think we already had first of all in November when the in the beginning of the winter season we debarted our winter season with the NJ grade school championship with the 10th grade team getting first in the state and we also had the first we had the 10th grade champion and the 10th grade second place who both got perfect scores Additionally the ninth grade team also got second place overall in December many uh many members of the Livingston high school chess team went to Orlando Florida to participate in the national uh K to 12 grads championship and we also did very amazingly well there in the 10th grade we nearly got first and ended up getting second in the in the nation while we had while in 10th Grade we had a fourth place uh in 11th grade we had someone who got third place and many other amazing accomplishments furthermore we had an undefeated season for the winter season and Fin and also in the uh in the state championships which would were held in March at link uh at um Union County uh the um the varsity team got uh got first place again and became the state champion for the second time in a row finally here I have with me a plaque of a a major team tournament in the US actually one of the biggest in the nation uh called the world Amer Team Championship where we out competed many other stronger teams to win the high uh to win the high school um best high school team for the for the club and we which we are extremely proud of and we we would love to thank everyone and our coach thank you finally we are going to the National High School Championship during the break and we hope to do our best we know we have great chances much more than last year and we would tell you how it goes later thank you so much Mr coach Peko um I got a question we were trying to set this up two weeks ago and you said it was iffy because the baby was on its way when was the baby born uh two weeks ago so good thing we didn't do this exactly two weeks ago yeah wow congratulations um you want to say uh a little something about the team I just I just want to say thank you um most importantly to the players on the team here everybody you're awesome um it's all about you it's not about me so uh thank you for letting me be a part of the journey um thank you to the administration for all the support really um we really appreciate that and uh to the parents thank you thank you thank you chess is uh timec consuming and expensive so thank you uh and thank you to my wife who is at home with Mar 2-year-old and two week old allowed me to sneak [Applause] out so coach we do have um uh individualized citations which we're going to go uh give out to the the whole team uh they all say the same thing we're going to give them out individually but this is the plaque for yourself and as you could see it says the mayor and the township council members are pleased to Cong graduate uh Livingston high school chess team 2024 New Jersey state championship first place winners we thank them for the pride that they bring to our community as the first place winners in the state of New Jersey championships and head to the National High School championships in Baltimore Maryland in April 2024 and we congratulate e each one of them individually and we're going to present them right now okay [Applause] this here yes okay we also have a joint Proclamation um from our sitting New Jersey assembly woman um oh by the way we have all our uh Board of Ed here just about uh we have pong and and Pam and P and janisa and uh Danielle and uh who else oh he was whispering something else and Dr Matlock and I I and uh an educator herself so this is a quite a moment for Livingston high school and our chess team so I'll turn it over to our assembly you want to give the joint proc just uh it's a very long one we had a lot of information that we were given I just I'll show it to you it's a joint Proclamation from the Senate and the assembly for the chess team and I'll tell you um Aston where are you your mom is um an incredible Force for the entire team we were at the state of the uh County address and she was telling Sean kleene uh council member Klein how great your team was doing and we were standing together and I said if you win States I will give you a joint Proclamation well Mom did not forget she she contacted uh Sean and I and she said guess what they won can we have our joint Proclamation so here it is I'm handing it to your teacher so on behalf of the state of New Jersey the Senate and the assembly we congratulate you and there are State citations for each and every one of you we'll be back if you win [Applause] Nationals okay we're all we all grabbed a few of these Ed you said you wanted to go first all right practi the first so when we call your name if when we call your name if you'd come up please and we congrat congratulate you individually and give you your citation uh first is Claire CH doesn't matter which one give it yeah that's fine either one we can just give okay congratulations congratul congratulations all right Matt [Applause] G congratulations congratulations Eric G no oh right here oh sorry con congratulations again and Le kagn I I'll I'll apologize now for my fellow council members and the pronunciation of [Laughter] names unlike Ed I didn't get to practice so Harry mua Kamar Harry's not here Harry's not here here you go Harry Aston Robbins uh [Applause] Roberts hey congratulations Quan [Applause] Tran congratulations congratulations and Tom [Applause] valev Lucas Shang did I get that right did I get that right Min like Roger Zang he congratulations okay um AAL bardage not here okay and uh abiman chandan so next yeah you you want me to go to okay the tough on side at the end all right elas Chen this is from junior varsity congratulations George that's a lot of Chess words there congratulations Sam Israel here okay saying and Jerry [Applause] Z conratulations Jen congratulations congratulations I know that's a tough one uh Xander Lou Xander Lou all right Ben [Applause] mercus and aayush [Applause] Sakana congratulations congratulations again yeah we're going to take a photo congratulations again the entire team you make us proud come I'm so sorry great thank you so much congratulations [Applause] again have a good night congratulations okay was too big it was too big to do what how many okay next on the agenda is is the approval of the minutes have a a motion to approve the minutes I'll make that motion mayor okay I'll second great any opposed all in favor yeah okay no motion sorry I do thank you yes that's what they were discussing yeah just for the correct we were talking about a possible correction but it's okay okay next we have public comment on agenda items only I'd like to open the meeting uh for public comments on agenda items only have a second I'll second okay all in favor I I okay Justin hi Mr Mayor Justin Alber 56 amher Place uh saving the uh ordinance readings for that session uh resolution 24127 renewing permission to raise flags as an expression of government speech could you please pull this from the consent agenda for a discussion this is a legal fiction the only purpose of this council is to serve the public your Authority comes from the public we have not created a special class of speech for the government the government is only as a reflection of the people there is one flag to raise it is the stars and bars it represents presents everybody with liberty and justice for all it should be open to all who want to come to a flag raising and participate in that ceremony there's no need to raise any other flag whatsoever because that flag covers all of us this 24127 is a legal fiction it is an over extension of your Authority it should be pulled and it should be shot down thank you very much sir thank you Justin door has to stay open door has to stay open it's a public meeting I'd like to close the close the public uh this part of the meeting for a public comment on non-agenda items second not agenda item sorry on agenda on agenda items second all in favor any oppos no all in favor okay good okay we're now up to the uh passage of ordinances the final hearing uh Madam Kirk mayor thank you mayor yes mayor I'd like to pull ordinance 05- 2024 and table it and move it to the next meeting second second okay all in favor I yep council member bani yes Klein yes Vieira yes Deputy mayy morhart yes mayor Anthony yes M public Lee can you open the door in the back we got we have to keep one door open it's got to stay open at all times thank you is that on for public it will be Ted till Monday April 8th there will be no new notice given great thank you um the next one I believe the mayor and Deputy Mayor are recused on is that right yes you are counselor do you want to run this part of the meeting Madam clerk please read Ordinance one d224 by title ordinance 10224 authorizing the purchase and sale agreement with Bright View is there a motion to open the public heing I'd like to make a motion to open the public hearing second yes uh before we start the clock uh is do the recusals need to leave the room okay um I I guess uh Council uh council member Klein you're the senior person uh council member kle uh ordinance 1024 authorizing the purchase and sale agreement with bright sale we are making a fundamental mistake here in the next ordinance it shows who the owners are and it is all the executives of the company through trust that they have created up for themselves we have not properly valued the property just tagging off of the value of this property here and we know that that valuation is fundamentally flawed because the whole system is flawed and this is not a rent paying property so um the value ation is flawed and um this is the last thing that you want to be doing you don't want to sell property from outside of the community this is the fundamental problem in the minority communities that have suffered for decades under single party control by the Democrats only here we don't have the racist uh Banking and land use laws to hide behind um this company's coming in here we are selling we're selling our skate park to a Maryland LLC that's all the land is all being self- it's all going to the owners this is a fundamental mistake it's a mistake across the board there have been conflicts in here from the beginning there have been people who have been recused and then unrec used we you know the uh uh the uh golf club came in to present their case next door we never had that here there was never a Public Presentation we can't ask questions uh councilman bhani just came on the board and there should have been a new session a new public session instead he was sent to speak privately to the developer this whole thing is broken um the purchase and sale agreement is broken it's shortsighted there's no opportunity to reclaim the real property in the future we're selling it without any proper valuation um we need to slow this down and take the time and I would request that the three of you the three who are unused hold off on voting on this until we can discuss the next ordinance the financial agreement they've submitted bogus financials on just the landowning company 100% of the rents are going to go to taxes well who's putting up the money who's who's providing that float for 30 years this is broken this is a fraud there needs to be a deeper due diligence thank you council member Klein yes um I'm just here as a parl kemka uh Livingston New Jersey I'm here as a private citizen um about the pilot has anything been discussed uh about percentage going to the school School versus uh staying with the town because I know that La in the last year when Pilots were being discussed there was discussion about a certain per percentage being given to schools so um it would be helpful to learn well that's that's actually the next ordinance but since you asked the question we'll go ahead and answer it uh the council has discussed that um there hasn't been any definitive decisions I will say this this particular project there wouldn't be a time to make it there's still ample time to develop a policy uh because the pilot wouldn't kick in until the project is fully constructed so you're several years down the road so uh certainly the council has indicated in the past a receptiveness to evaluating any type of pilots and and uh some Equitable sharing with the Board of Ed uh but nothing's been finalized but again we're still several years away I'll make that motion second yes is there a motion to adopt the ordinance I'll make a motion I'll second is there any discussion among the council members um I'll just uh I I'll just say uh on my own um I think that this is something that um is going to be a net positive for the community it does accomplishes two goals um the first is that uh we have a new rateable coming in in an area where we have are you know not making any tax benefit whatsoever uh and then the second benefit will be that um the this will allow the Y uh which is currently next door to this building to move across to another property which if uh which will be an excellent use for that property and also will prevent uh would end up being high density housing uh that would end up being built on that property so this is a way to protect Livingston against overdevelopment and increase our ratables uh and I think it's uh a very um uh I'm going to vote uh yes to uh to support this thank you uh my comments are the same as uh at the last meeting and Echo uh councilman clein's you know we have two pieces of property in Livingston we have the YMCA and we have the church that was across the street that the YMCA was planning to build both of them have not had taxes on them for years and years and years and years and years and what we're doing with this sale of the Y to to Bright View is putting the old YMCA back on the tax and with that also we are leaving a YMCA in Livingston because you know what if that property cannot be sold the YMCA has already said you know what we may look elsewhere and we may move out of Livingston and you know the YMCA has been a fixture in this town has done so much not only for the residents of this town but for so many others throughout the community uh and outside the community and there's no way that I going to let the why under my term as a council member leave Livingston uh my vote today is to support the YMCA make sure that the YMCA stays in Livingston for as long as they want to so uh my comments today is for both uh ordinances thank you so I'm going to add a few things here uh I see this uh this has a tremendous benefit for keeping the Y in town with a modern state-of-the-art why coming across the street um I agree with my fellow council members uh it increases uh the taxable properties the number of taxable properties and it's a prime one uh instead of having a non-taxable properties two of them now we have one which is going to be taxable um in terms of uh other benefits uh I clearly see and maybe Barry you can you can uh if you have any numbers right now uh this type of uh facility comes in and gives us uh rentable space without having kids coming to the schools and also gives us the credit for affordable housing uh so where do you get that right so affordable housing this essentially replaces let's say if it is 12 or 14 credits we get that's replacing 70 apartments and the current calculations so that's the kind of uh benefits we are looking at and of course this numbers will be will be um will be drawn up uh as the or as the state law and other components gets cleared up but the idea of having this uh you know uh why coming in with the modern state of state-of-the-art Y across the street additional taxable property um giving us the credit on affordable housing these are some of the great benefits I think uh that comes in with this ordinances so I think um it is it is a good one discussion Jared yeah I'm sorry I I had forgotten to to emphasize that with the sale of this property uh to Bright View not this project will not bring one child into our community uh this is uh for an assistant living facility and there will not be one child going to our school because of this uh this property sale thank you anything further Madam clerk please call the rooll uh council member bani yes council member Vieira yes council member Klein yes Madam clerk please read ordinance 11-202 24 by title ordinance 11 d224 authorizing Financial agreement and ltte application can I have a motion over the public hearing I'll make a motion a second all in favor I I hi councilman Klein Justin Alper 56 Amhurst Place uh you know the mayor in his inauguration ceremony uh said that he was going to be against uh further uses of Pilots if he were unused I imagine that he would be standing forward saying that he is against the use of a pilot I'm not sure what the basis is for the $425,000 a year do you know Mr Township manager I think it's all set forth in the application yeah I didn't find the basis for $425,000 a year I'm not sure what the taxes would normally be under the ASI proprietary model which we've never actually seen the um the way that they developed their model this is a mistake um 30 years you're going to provide a uh flat rate uh for all of these wealthy trusts back here uh belonging to let's see how much time we have belonging to uh the Arnold I Richmond revocable trust that's the Bright View chairman the Marilyn K duer revocable trust that's the co-chair uh the Jeffrey K hedelman revocable trust he's the Executive Vice President the Paul Douglas dolberg Jr that may not be a trust he may own that directly he's the president CEO Brian Engle senior vice president these are the people benefiting from all this uh they all live down in Maryland and and you're providing them a break our whole tax system is fundamentally broken we should be using taxes to forcibly depreciate outside interests instead when the people of Livingston do the work to raise the quality of Livingston raise the quality of living in Livingston that appreciated value of real property is going to flow to the Grand children of these Executives this is a fundamental mistake we should not be issuing another pilot we need a new pilot program this is a mistake please do not do that thank you councilman kleene oh by the way well I have another minute they submitted totally bogus financials right I mean it's not even for the operating company it's just for the landholding company they put in into the financials if you put them up you would see they put in uh occupancy rates totally irrelevant they put in um no room for profits whatsoever they they'll probably put this in a nonpublic real estate investment trust and and sell the interest to retirees and it's just a mistake the whole thing is a mistake we need better control over our real property we need we need to use tax policy to gain better control over our real property we need better quality local banking to gain control over our real property this is a step backwards all the way it was a fundamental mistake people sat on this issue with conflicts for years there should have been a new hearing there wasn't should have been new hearing when the uh new councilman came on there wasn't this was a mistake you all should reconsider thank you very much have a motion to close the public hearing I'll make a motion second all in favor yes I is there a motion to adopt the ordinance I'll make that Mo uh motion discussion right is there any discussion amongst the council members uh yeah I have some comments on it um so uh I don't think of this as being some sort of conspiratorial uh um effort by people from Maryland trying to come and take over Livingston uh to me this is about people who Rec I that Livingston is a great place to do business and they want to invest here and if they want to invest here and create a successful business in Livingston we welcome them um and we're glad that you've looked at Livingston and uh and want to be here um I want to thank uh Kon for his work uh he's a very new um uh person on this committee and he's already made a tremendous difference uh in his work on this particular uh in other places as well but on this particular deal um he has uh to the tune of I would imagine at least six figures made a huge Improvement towards Livingston and our financial outcome uh over the time of this pilot um I think that uh when you look at the numbers I I have seen some modeling of how the numbers are going to come in on this pilot and uh in in a few years we will be making uh have better tax receipts coming in on the pilot than we would if we were just getting uh regular receipts uh as a uh as a business owner in town so the pilot here is actually genuinely advantageous uh to the township and part of that uh uh benefit is due to your work on this so thank you Kon thank you Sean yeah I know I wasn't going to make any comments but uh you know what if do if this project did not go through tonight you know what you would have seen more development in town you know this Council has been screamed at for the last two years because of the development that we had to approve because of the fair share housing Corporation and you know what I understand the community and and their anger however this project right now it's not bringing any new buildings if if the YMCA builds where they're going to build bright viw builds where they're going to build okay it's not bringing a lot more people into this town it's not bringing any children into this town okay this this one is a definite easy one to approv because you know what there is no school overcrowding you know we're getting blamed right now because of school overcrowding there's not one shovel in the ground yet for most of the work that we did however the this project is not putting one child into into the school and with this it's not bringing any new development onto those two pieces of property so this is an easy one tonight uh I'm going to start by saying that um I've had several conversations with uh the Bright View I have read uh the documents uh thank you Barry for providing uh the material I kept on asking I kept on asking more and more for and you kept on providing the details uh and the history as well uh so it's not that I walked in eyes closed uh I agree with councilman Klein that this is not to sell out Livingston uh this is uh a firm I've engaged uh they have engaged with me on estimation models uh I looked at those uh estimation models uh as cons Klein said uh we re negotiated and renegotiated at the end of the day this is going to yield more uh dollars for the township uh uh it is an amended pilot in a way that it brings us uh additional resources uh the flat rate it's absolutely not true it is not a flat rate it is uh there is a cap on top of it which is which covers Us for uh which makes room for inflations so it has an additional room beyond what we have uh agreed to which is 3% uh which is beyond what we normally tax or or cannot tax Beyond 2% % is is the regulation but coming to 3% there is an additional room of 1% uh inflation adjusted so that we have uh recovered ourselves as well all in all in conversations with the company I found them to be U having a great interest in the community so if we say that these are just Outsiders uh on paper different story maybe but uh they are interested in community participation uh we have engaged and challenged them in terms of knowing what the senior community look like and they were sufficiently able to answer some of it so I think the idea is to again going back to it whole and whole um it is a project where we were able to work through the financials get through benefits for ourselves and uh at the same time as I mentioned earlier modern state-of-the-art why across the street additional taxable property which is a pretty significant one uh gaining resources for ourselves at the end of the end of the pilot and as cons Klein noted uh middle of the pilot it is actually yielding much more money for us to than than other otherwise possible um and on top of it all affordable housing credits so I think it's a it's a pretty good pretty good deal here any further comment Madam clerk please call the role council member BB Tani yes Council member Viera yes council member Klein yes all right great thanks uh we are now up to the consent agenda for Resolutions all matters with listed with an asterik are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the council and will be approved by one motion there will be no separate discussion of these items unless a member of the governing body so requests in which case the item will be removed from the consent agenda and considered in its normal sequence on the agenda as part of the general orders does anyone want anything removed from the consent agenda seeing none okay Madam cor resolution 24-23 appointment of Krishna MAA resolution 24124 authorizing disposition of surplus resolution 24125 authorizing the award of contract to Mumford Workman Associates Inc res resolution 24126 authorizing the award of a contract contract to Vortex Services LLC resolution 24127 renewing permission to raise flags as is an expression of government speech resolution 24128 authorizing transfer of 2023 budget appropriation reserves I'll move the resolutions second thank you any oppos all in favor I we need a roll call roll call yeah local council member bani yes via yes Klein yes Deputy Mayor manhard yes mayor Anthony which call yes not sure I'd like to open the meeting uh the public portion of the meeting on any subject great second all in favor okay good evening every bu hi I'm sure you're all wondering why we're here uh my name's Don Adams uh this is Cheryl waldrum we're from East Hover we live right over the water where the uh Rockway river orake river at that point is where Livingston meets East Handover and rosand unfortunately I've been in East Handover resident for the last four years I've joined with at least a dozen of my neighbors from our neighborhood over there we've been there for well over 30 years some of us were 40 years since the neighborhood was built in the 80s as you know you have a firing range for your police squad that sits right on the river and he's T over and the things that I really want to point out as some you've mentioned before is noise complaints noise complaints from pick a ball are one thing noise complaints from Guns being fired 247 5 days a week are another thing your town has rented it out to New Jersey State Police our police chief chief kizo has spoken with the New Jersey State Police Superintendent who came to our development and heard 700 state police officers firing off rounds two weeks ago 5 days a week from 9:00 in the morning to 4 in the afternoon afternoon and vowed that the New Jersey State Police will never fire another round in your facility because it's inhumane and he sent his sincere apologies to Us's residents because of the noise complaint my question is that if the New Jersey State Police can do it why can't the Livingston Police do it secondly pollution you guys are worried about fireworks going off into drinking water what about the lead pollution going into the river that's less than 100 ft away the pollution drains down and it's a public facility for people to go fishing if you check on Tik Tok or YouTube you can find countless times that kids have posted gun stray bullets going through you have burms that aren't to code that are that are used as your fire protection as well as your sound barriers to our community you've created an ordinance for your town that says okay between the months of November and March we won't do it because it's too loud but I can assure you two weeks ago we're in the beginning of March and it's like a war zone it was like literally being on Iraq I'm a physician I'm a surgeon at Marist toown I can tell you that hearing loss begins at 60 DB in this room tonight we're talking at about 40 we have recorded and I can share it with you constant 75 Diel levels from Guns being fired non-stop okay I have an 18-month-old little girl she shouldn't have to wake up in the morning to bullets going off I shouldn't have a hard time putting her down for a nap because you want to shoot guns she shouldn't go outside and walk down the driveway and stop and look around and point because you guys want to shoot fireworks off 24/7 and just to give you a taste of what it actually is like I'd like to play this for you of course it's not going to work sound on the bottom it's not going off I apologize hold on thank you she can go want me to gra okay just coming for my speak but this is constant 9 in the morning to 4 in the afternoon that's one there's another hold on sir your time's up she she can speak too sure and we I don't know about you can you unplug that speaker please sorry can you unplug that speaker please thank you Sher walram Fox Run Drive I've lived there since 2016 during Co I worked from home my children were schooled from home my wall shake that video was taken by me outside my front door I can't be on conference calls because of the noise and it's constant we've asked for help for years I don't know if you've ever heard of this before but you wouldn't want this outside your front door I know the gun range was there before us it's 224 why are we shooting police guns within a close proximity to any neighborhood why are we Outdoors right there by highways by businesses by homes where children play go there's there's other land in New Jersey that they can use you don't have to come here and we're asking you for your help to understand as our whole Community came here there's many more who just didn't come tonight it is loud it's disturbing and it's not something a 2-year-old should walk outside and point around to his point I ask for your consideration to close it permanently to everybody you're welcome thank you um same topic or same topic okay Barry um did we we have an update on that um on this time for a second um can I speak first yeah yeah yeah sure my name is Natalie Bartlett I am the superintendent of schools in East Hover New Jersey I live on Fox Run Drive I just want to say I am so happy I don't live in Livingston do you want to know why mayor I know you were with my mayor right in front of my house I know you heard that gun range but do you know who got the state police out my mayor my mayor pulo and my chief of police your chief of police let a sergeant make a deal did you know that you all know that because I sent you all the videos let's not play dumb shame on all of you because if it's affecting us it's also affecting residents that aren't speaking up shame on you shame on you I have never ever ever been so disappointed in a Town Council or or a mayor you stood in front of my house with my mayor yet you did nothing my police chief and my mayor took care of it did you your police chief and your mayor with our police chief and um uh our assistant manager and we did see the problem and and we were we looked at it and I that's why I wanted Barry to mention that I think there's been some updates since then well now the state police are not shooting but you're your officers are still shooting at ungodly hours yeah it was Troth was the state Troop B which uh I just I had many discussions I I know now it's not the Troopers with short called on your behalf and did and and representa is there's still shooting going on councilman Brian who came with us as well there's still shooting going on they still are like they've been shooting for how many years bear I have been living there for 25 years so I don't want to hear this is ungodly lately so I don't know what's going on over there we hear and listen there is no Town that's more Pro police no no town we we Bleed Blue and we want them to train but don't train in an area where we have patients with cancer that can't rest that the husband comes out crying that children can't sleep that we have animals that are are are shaking and traumatized it's Livingston's problem shame on you shame on you Livingston I am blessed I live in East Hover New Jersey go [Applause] back people finish now Jus are you on the are you on the gun range well I'll start on the gun range and then move to other topics okay well because I was going to go ahead kind of provide a position on so the um yeah just by way of history for anyone who's hearing this for the first time and certainly people on H Facebook um first the land was donated to the township specifically for a gun range in 1961 um and has been used continuously since then um the residents as the one gentleman indicated uh in this neighborhood were built the 80s uh 20 years later um again can't take questions from continuous use the um firearms training uh it's not that we just want to go shoot guns it's mandated by the state that all law enforcement officers have to qualify with Firearms at at regular intervals um the uh there are as one of the uh other people reference there are residents and houses in Livingston um that are equally distant from the firing range as this neighborhood and at least in my six years I've not received complaints uh from Livingston residents um the there was repeated reference by the first gentleman to 247 uh and there was another reference by the last woman to ungodly hours um the chief has uh indicated and I think the one gentleman recognized it that the shooting is limited um these were all concessions that were made throughout the years uh to Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 400 p.m. uh with li very limited exceptions uh they don't shoot on weekends they stopped shooting during the winter months because the the leaves were off the trees um now most recently uh there was a request and uh there was an agreement and they allowed the U State Police to train there I think uh a mistake was made uh that I don't think people fully appreciated how many state police were going to come and train um independent of the me that was referenced our chief had already determined and reached out to the state police uh to suggest that they're going to have to find another location so the state police which um literally they were hundreds of officers well more than than Livingston or even rosand uses it a couple East Hanover actually used to shoot there as well um but the state police was more recent so I don't know if there's been an uptick in the activity um but that will be coming to an end with the um and and certainly we want to be sensitive that Chief is looking into whether you know what other options might be available um obviously having a range in town when we have mandatory training is invaluable in terms of access to our officers in terms of you know overtime considerations in terms of not having officers go out of town if they're on duty um but we we are certainly open to again the first step will be to stop the state police which I think was a major impact uh unforeseen uh and and I apologize for that and certainly somebody should have clarified how many state police were coming before they allowed it but that will end um and again we are looking at what other options may be available both in terms of locationally Andor um sound proofing that could be done there or potentially even uh creating an indoor range so everything's on the table mayor um Barry the uh the point brought up about the burm is there any accuracy in that uh I'm not sure exactly what the reference was to the burn but I I made it note high enough or it wasn't noncompliant made a note of it and I will certainly look into it that is one of the things whether additional BMS additional Landscaping sound walls uh whether and what's the cost of that versus uh some other option but everything's being under consideration thank you can I I'm sorry bar so can I just ask um so this been this obviously has been going on for 20 25 years the only difference so far even longer than that the only difference is that the state troopers were um allowed to shoot for a while and now they're not allowed to shoot well the state troopers will be at I will say this the the agreement with the state trooper certainly coincided with the influx of complaints okay and it was a significant number of Troopers we came to find out so so so we're thinking that so we're thinking that now that the state troopers are no longer allowed is that correct they're no longer allowed that the chief has indicated I I think it's been ended already it sounds like somebody said this somebody from the state police has already conceded that they're not going to so I did not hear the chief was unfortunately out of town or he would have been here tonight um but that that will end uh I'm sure that you know any gunfire is more than they want to hear but certainly it'll at a minimum go back to what was the more historic frequency which is you know we we have 70 officers that have to qualify twice a year so you're you're only you're not five days a week 247 65 days a year that's and but in conjunction with that we're also looking at what other options are available okay because we haven't heard this is the first time at least in the last 10 or 11 years that we've heard anything about this from on this Council so thank you thanks how how long has the uh how long have the state police been there how long have they been using it for um I well they specialty units were using it uh just a couple of like what I would say is more equivalent to that and then recently I don't know I can get the exact dates uh that the rank and file the actual Patrol officers from the whole section which literally turned into hundreds of officers okay uh that's yeah that's another Point too we also learned that they would they qualify on uh high power rifles which are significantly louder our officers trained with pistols uh that was another and again uh accepting responsibility uh because ultimately the buck stops with me because I'm the town manager uh that somewhere along the way somebody should have pinned down the details on the State Police use uh but that that is being corrected thank you Barry hi hi Sandra Canelo I live on dartmore road and you're correct Barry Congressman or whatever um you the buck does stop um running one thing that I've never heard anybody here mention is it's an open range does anybody think about the children who will be roaming around in the woods or do you think that they don't go outside and I also would like you to please clarify when you say it's continuous use because I've been in this neighborhood for 24 years the first few years that I was here that range was not occupied and if it was occupied it wasn't in use so I'd like clarity on your continuous use i' I've only been here six years but the chief has been here 35 years and he says long before they were there they and again when it's just our department it's uh it maybe two or three days uh on two different occasions during the year uh so and with other departments but the it was the state police that all a sudden it became a five days a week week after week after week which was again it was more than five days a week it was seven so let's and there is military grade equipment that's being fired I do not not understand how you all can sit here right now and look at the residents here and say that you're okay with this with it's an open range any child can walk back there be playing in the woods then what will you do do we have an answer or is that what you're waiting for before you react maybe put up a wall enclose it if you have to stay in that spot enclose it it that I mean that's certainly one of the options No it should be the only option Sir with all due respect um it's an option that's being reviewed I will say this as far as the range uh it's a a short range it's not a long range rifle so they're not shooting from 100 to literally they're shooting from 10 yards away 25 yards away so a child can't walk back in there a child would have to walk literally in front of the officer shooting the time okay well it's doed please don't speak please don't speak from the audience please I'll say it there bullets in the woods I mean we could walk back there right now and I could come here with a handful of straight bullets and I won't be anywhere near that range would you be okay if it was your child if your house was backed up there and your children were playing in the woods I certainly understand and I certainly hear what you're saying I guess my my question is to to all of you folks is that we're the last I've been on this Council for 11 years now and none of you have ever come before I've been complaining for 10 have you come have you come to the we've never we've never well it's never G I'm just saying please stop interrupting the councilman he didn't interrupt you please I guess my point is that for the last 11 years now we haven't heard a word I've been on this Council now for 11 years along with councilman Klein and and I'm sorry mayor mayor Anthony's been even longer and we've never we've never heard any word so now it's just interesting that I don't disagree with some of the stuff you're saying but all of a sudden now it's because of the extra noise that you're coming out and that we've sort of hopefully taken care of the extra noise with the state troopers going away doesn't fix problem uh Jim Canelo dmore Road Fox round of States obviously so we do appreciate what has been done with the state police but as was stated before it took us to really do it to really get the ball rolling here and it shouldn't have come to that so I understand that the firing range was there long before Fox R States was there and since 1961 I think but times change times change this whole meeting today was about how much time is changing right we're evolving more homes are being built more people are coming into the communities so it's time for you to recognize that this needs to be changed we are pro police as Natalie said my son is a police officer in East Hover they fire they have the same requirements that Livingston does they go up to Randol and fire indoors in the range up there all we're asking for is for this to be looked at seriously it's time for a change so that's what we need to have done enclose it relocate it go shoot somewhere else just like East Tanner police still I don't see why this is a problem before a tragedy does happen let's nip it in the butt and I think everybody here would agree with that nobody wants to see a tragedy and I understand what you're saying in short range I get that but Anything Could Happen okay we just want it to end that's it that's my time thank [Applause] you damn I just happened I never realized about the shooting thing but I do know we did have a indoor range here in Livingston at Northland po we never use that anymore is there we cannot use that did you say your name I'm sorry Allen F thank you uh just for the record I don't know but I mean I know I've seen the range I've seen it downstairs I've actually my dad actually did The Bu the plumbing in that building and I've actually done the plumbing in there as well so I know about it but I know there's some issues with h pollution that affects the shooting have to redo the hva system or something to alleviate the smoke and uh that comes with shooting a gun but and I think there lead poisoning as well in involved in that um but anyway that's not my comment can I comment later my reason I'm here for this meeting is I've been ask it's my only chance to speak so I'm speaking now I I have a I live on a paper Street in town and I like and I own property on both sides of this paper Street and I've approached uh Barry Lewis uh since last June about um uh I'm buying a a a uh vacating vacating the street so that I can make the property into one lot and um I'm waiting to see that happen at some point I hope this year thank you just curious what what is what the area what street uh this would be Maple Avenue in uh Livingston uh um it's off off of East Cedar it's off of it's behind East Cedar it's behind East Cedar you actually go down dle you go on Stokes and then you want Maple to get to my house it's closer to Bal moral and it that ends Bal moral the end of Bal moral to this Center of uh West Oakwood Avenue okay that's where the location is thank you thanks thank you go ahead good evening my name is Giana Adams okay thanks um I also live on a 32 Fox Run Drive and so you know I don't want to be a dead horse but a couple things that we also just wanted to mention were um again East Handover police obviously you know we support the police they qualify they do so indoors um we have family members who work at pitini Arsenal who allow any state police officer to qualify or shoot or use their um indoor range for free so they don't charge officers to go and shoot there um the other thing I just want to know you know in today's climate we're not anti-gun is is the other thing this is not an anti-gun issue this is not an anti Police Issue I am um I have a 19-month-old and I don't want to raise her in our house the way that it is um sorry we never would have bought the house if we knew that the range was there um she wakes up and hears bullets it's like living in Iraq and um we would have overpaid for our house in East Handover we would have just like moved her to new YK if I wanted her to kind of grow up like that so um we just want to know that it's going to be looked into there are multiple houses in our neighborhood that have gone up for sale unfortunately elderly people have died Etc but the the poor real estate agents and not really because they never told us that the range was there but um they can't sell those houses because people are literally running out of the open houses because they're doing so either during during the week when the range is in use and literally people are like absolutely not to those houses so it's our neighborhood is developing for sure you know they're getting rid of old houses they're putting up new and advancing and that's a huge issue for our environment and our neighborhood as well as there is no you know getting new young families in because no one wants to live there so please just take it serious L like if you had a young baby you were trying to raise that's all thank you thank you very [Applause] much hey Justin hi Mr Mayor uh Justin Alper 56 Amhurst Place uh you know if we're tired of just handing out proclamations on Red on Orange Ribbon Week uh and doing nothing year after year this town is in need of a proper facility for residents uh to freely exerc freely and responsibly exercise their second amendment rights it once we start planning for healthy Community growth locally again we ought to consider a range a modern facility that is silent to the outside world that's something that would be interesting bring people into community and set the standard of Excellence uh for people responsibly exercising their second amendment rights um next issue with respect to development in this community taxes are not the only consideration when we develop we have to also look at construction and the jobs afterwards this is an 8090 million project of that money how much will flow through members of the community when we look at the old church property on Northland we see a lot of con construction workers there but how many live in Livingston we have a ton of construction work if we want the construction work to benefit the community we need to have those skilled jobs for people in the community if we were properly planning for Healthy Growth this is something that we would have started discussing five years ago instead we had all this development pushed on us do we have a responsibility to plan for the jobs as well the answer is likely yes so when we look to uh certainly when we look to change zoning laws with respect to the uh golf club or whatnot we need to be securing those jobs for members of the community it's very tough to do because the housing that we're building is not attractive so skilled people earning real living wages are not necessarily going to want to move into that housing you guys put yourself in a tough situation but there's still work to be done it's not about the taxes especially where the taxes are going to be drawn out of the generational wealth of the members of the community it's the wrong calculation and you're being had but if it's going to be coming from outside funds coming into the community that's one thing if we are going to recognize the value of construction jobs in the community that's another if it's going to provide permanent jobs to the community that's a third thing but instead we expect that the jobs are going to be fairly identical to the ones next door with people taking the bus from the inner city that's a loss it's a loss of opportunity it's a loss of real property thank you for your consideration Mr Mayor thank you Jus 10 fley 16 Mount Pleasant Parkway uh once again I thank you for tabling that ordinance uh tonight this is the third time I'm here uh requesting a discussion on this on this ordinance um again I just feel like I'm being ignored I was here two weeks ago you tabled it then and then I also spoke about some issues at 16 Mount sorry 16 South uh Mitchell my mother-in-law's property we have dumpsters in our backyard the side property is is supposed to be one way in and one way out out which now is filled with dumpsters so you can't use both driveways so I'm looking for some answers I'm looking for a phone call or email from the town you know I know it's not the council but you know town hall is not doing their job and I'm very upset with that I've been a resident here for 50 years and I'm starting to get pissed off at my own pound and uh just a small thing with the gun range I was 8 years 8 years old first time I shot a gun was down there with my father police off retired police officer um I don't think that range has been worked on at all I think it definitely does need some improvements I've been down there a few times and it it does look like it's way outdated and uh I I I feel for the the residents of East Town over too so um again thank you I'm just hopefully I can hear from somebody this week I appreciate it I'm off on Friday if you wanted me to come in I'll come in Friday I will uh I'll follow up the I conveyed your concerns to the engineering department I know she wrote a letter but I will ensure that somebody gets a hold of you to sit down and and have a conversation okay I appreciate it Tim Tim what's a sorry what's 16 South forgetting the um the the ordinance for a second is that the house that we talked about earlier your mother-in-law house yeah yeah there was a couple issues the defense issue has been resolved okay and what you said there's now dumpsters in dumpsters in the backyard of that house they live she lives right next to the parking lot right by the uh post office you know where the post office entrance is yeah yeah that parking lot where Livingston Pizza is and Dave's uh okay I know where that is Dave's flooring well Dave just moved in there I'm not trying to throw him under the bus but he he's got a very large dumpster and it's very bright green it's like as bright as as your [Music] microphone she sits out on on her on her deck and that's all she sees is this dumpster here and there's three other dumpsters that belong to the businesses back there that are always overflowing just multiple pictures of it uh I believe my mother-in-law sent in so I just want to know what the ordinances for dumpsters so we can take care of that also maybe we can ask um yeah I did uh I so glad care when we have some to ordinance thank you all right because that that garage is supposed to be drive around the garage and now it's being blocked I believe the one entrance was supposed to be for the synagogue right next door between between the garage and my in-law's property yeah hey hey Tim if you don't get a call by Thursday could you at least let us know that nobody thank you problem Friday I think the town hall is closed right bar can we bar can we who's going to call so we know is there any reason is there any reason Janetta Rocco can't reach out to him tomorrow yeah they should somebody will call you tomorrow Jan Rocco you're not hearing from Janette oraco should be calling you tomorrow on thank you hi um Karen red vanley uh my husband and I I live on dartmore road as well and uh the firing affects us my husband and I have lived there for 19 years with our children um these people that are behind me are not just my neighbors they're my family those two young couple that young couple that moved in I I pray they don't move because someday they're going to pick up and go I think uh Mr Canelo said it perfectly before times have changed you folks have to change I think it's time that you readdress that you look at it and you make some changes I don't know which gentleman said it before and I know we've said it earlier but someone was worried about the pickle ball and the noise that it made and concern that it would be noisy for Neighbors what are we listening to are you not concerned about what we hear in our own backyard so I think it's time that you all make a change doesn't matter that it's been there for so long it affects fects all of us and it's time for a change thank you thank you anyone else on public comment motion to close public comment second all in favor okay we'll go on to reports of Township officials and council members uh start down there Adam no update at this time okay great thank you AR uh nothing for me mayor all right Russ actually we just got notification that the Count's holding their household hazards waste day Saturday May 4th it's in Cedar Grove from 8:30 to 4: um Township does not do a ha household hazardous waste day so you need to take advantage of that we do do electronics and we'll have one of those in April thank you Russ um Carol thank you mayor I just wanted to mention that Livingston needs pole workers you don't have to live in Livingston to be a pole worker you uh have any interest in working the primary which is in June it's Tuesday June 4th and then again in November for the general we would love to have you you do have to fill out an application it goes down to Essex County which we can definitely help you with please definitely come talk talk to somebody in the clerk's Department we need pole workers thank you it pays pretty well for a Day Too doesn't it it pays $300 you have to be 16 years old but it is a long day I'm not going to lie maybe maybe sorry thanks maybe we can put an ad in or maybe the West distrib could write a little something about that uh uh looking for pole workers whether in town or out of town maybe we could just ask I know it's a big it's a big shortage for the primaries and the in the general coming up in November so thanks Mike thank you uh C you there I have no comment tonight thank you all right uh Ka all right um I guess I'm going to just recall a couple of uh good things that happened uh was a wonderful opening of that creative shop the business that opened up in town creative was very exciting to have that ribbon cutting and it was a very exciting business um so kudos to them we had a good uh Vietnam Veterans Day Celebrations today um and again thank you for all the Veterans for this service actual Vietnam Veterans Day is on March 29th but this was a great celebration inside the library today uh today is a day of celebrating holy so happy holy to everybody who is um who is celebrating um and couple of upcoming items I think we're going to looking forward to have the 515 conversations later this week and before we meet meet uh there'll be Easter next weekend so happy Easter in advance to everybody who's celebrating that's all thank you mayor thank you K uh Mike thank you mayor uh last week I or last meeting I had mentioned the Unico Man of the Year um Rudy Fernandez our former mayor will be um uh the man of the year that will be Sunday April 21st uh at 11 o'clock at Handover Manor if you're interested uh in getting tickets or anything just reach out to uh to Unico for some information um I'd also like to mention another uh fundraiser uh that our community is holding um uh orange ribbons for Jamie uh High School uh student and she's a junior um Raina Stern has been very involved with that organization and there'll be a Gala on Wednesday April 17th at 7 o'clock at Crystal Plaza uh ticket and event information um is www orange ribbons for Jamie and J gala.com I know I've already bought a couple of tickets and uh it's a real great event uh our next um as Russ had mentioned our next recycling day uh and the paper shredding will be Saturday April 13th is the next one uh Little League Baseball opens on April 13th best of Lu best of luck mayor uh that's the worst job of the of being mayor is throwing out that first pitch and making sure it gets uh past the home base um for those who are celebrating uh holy I wish you a happy holy um also uh for those who celebrate Easter happy and blessed Good Friday and Easter and again I just want to thank the uh the Veterans for a a wonderful uh uh Vietnam Veterans Day um Memorial today thank you mayor great thank you Michael uh Sean um I'll piggyback on some of these comments I want to wish uh a happy perm everyone who was celebrating and a happy holy to everyone celebrating that and a happy upcoming Easter uh we went um uh a lot of the council members up here were invited uh to an ifar dinner uh for Ramadan and it was it was lovely uh that was the first time I had been to an ifar dinner before and everyone was just so gracious and welcoming and uh it was it was a really I think uh warm and and lovely night um and then I just want to plug uh pick it up Livingston is going to be uh May um May Five May 5th so for those of you who uh may not remember what pick it up Livingston is it is uh there will be um teams of hundreds of people scattered around the town cleaning up all the streets and the and the waterways uh and um it's it's always an astonishing amount of garbage that gets picked up and it's a great way to meet your neighbors uh and to feel good about the town so uh everyone please uh we're going to be sending more information about that but everyone should participate and pick it up Livingston it's it's a great event thanks mayor thank you Sean I'll just I'll just piggyback like Sean says I on all the other ones as well um there are some nice porum celebrations that took place the last couple days so I belated to those who celebrated a happy holy uh for today and I do wish everybody a festive and happy Good Friday and Easter that is coming up um and we have a few weeks before I can say that about Passover which is usually not the case but this year Passover is much later so I will wait for those wishes thank you um I think these are all piggybacks um but thank you Sean for mentioning um the ifar dinner that was a lot of fun we had a chance to light the Crescent Moon out by the Gazebo uh which was the first um so thank you all council members were there and I think the whole Board of Ed was there as well um we did have that ribbon cutting at creative we all did some artwork there so we wish them the best of luck um and congratulations uh we went to the Vietnam Vets ceremony today thank you to all our veterans uh in town and everywhere uh for your service uh our veterans just always do a great job uh very meaningful ceremony uh talking about experiences in Vietnam and uh where they were stationed what year uh just a terrific job by uh our veterans happy holy happy Easter to everyone we will have uh the five on five on Wednesday at 7 p.m um there's an Easter egg hunt on Saturday uh by out on the oval by the Gazebo the lions are putting that on uh the Lions also had a great uh speaker series this last Saturday um really uh Kon you and I were there a lot of good speakers uh that were helpful to our kids and for uh public speaking in the future and actually it ranged a bunch of things careers and um applying to colleges as well uh so yes and Michael thanks for mentioning opening day it is on 4:13 and you're saying I should hope for rain on that day Absolutely I'll just practice with B yes uh so that's uh all I have we are going back into uh continuation of our conference meeting one more yes one more thing sorry just a plug also uh the next electronics recycling day is going to be 4113 so April uh April 13th will be the next electronics recycling day great I say that thank you did say that yes