for good evening welcome to the public hearing for Livingston Zoning Board of adjustment today is June 25th 2024 if you're an applicant for a d or use variance you should be aware that such a variance can only be granted after showing that special reasons for that Grant of the variance exists and that variance can be granted without substantial detriment to the zoning plan of the township of Livingston you should also be aware that in order to be granted such a variance you will require affirmative vote of five members of the seven member Board of adjustment other variance require a majority of four members to grant that variance in this case today we only have six members if you are an applicant for any variance and your variance is denied by this board you have a right to appeal to Superior Court of the state of New Jersey within 45 days of notice of decision and that Court May over return the decision of this board if you are objected to any type of variance has been granted you too May appeal to Superior Court of the state of New Jersey within 45 days a notice decision if you do file an appeal I ask that you please provide a copy of your complaint to the planning administrator Jackie Hollis pursuant to requirements the open public meeting act also known as Sunshine Law adequate notice of this meeting was provided to The Star Ledger and West essic Tribune and a copy was also posted on the B board and municipal building in addition to having notice posted notices meeting was placed on the Township's website members of the public will have an opportunity to ask questions or to make statements regarding each application at the appropriate time when the time comes if you like to address the board please come to the front and use the microphone so we can make sure your comments or questions as part of the record for all those returning thank you for your understanding from last time we had obviously a water issue Town officials did not want to take chance of having people in this building so we uh you know appreciate your understanding but we want to make sure everyone gets home safe and sound um will you please call the RO Miss Connor sure chairman Miss Conor is absent Mr Kenya here Mr fronty is absent Mr sha here miss marash here Mr shman here miss yuan is absent Miss K is here chairman beer here we have and our attorney Mr jamus is here as well we have a Corum and we also have Miss Jackie holl administrator okay would you please call the first applicant sure block 3601 law 22 11 Bridgewood Drive application number 202 24-13 DV Jason share now applicant seeks approval for a two-story addition front porch and replace existing deck and violation of the following sections 17087 BB3 habit floor area 3520 ft allowed 4,186 ft proposed 666 ft variance requested 17087 cc3 habitable floor ratio 21% allowed 28.8 proposed 7.8% variance requested and for the record Mr Sherman has Ste has recused himself from this uh application so we only have five members available I'll excellent can you turn that on there you go thank you uh Richard scholnick I have my own firm in Milburn and I'm representing Jason and Ariel sharino longtime Livingston residents and community members as you mentioned we're at 11 wood Ridgewood Drive block 3601 lot 22 and in the R3 Zone there was a hearing on that evening on May 30th I did watch the Youtube video chairman that hearing lasted about 12 minutes before the township uh Hall had to be vacated so it uh it got started um the architect Mr Miller uh testified for a bit I did take some notes of the board's comments there were some initial Impressions that of course we're going to address Miss Khan who I see is not here this evening thought the proposal was large for the block and a bit oversized Miss con commented uh that the bulk was a little bit large so we're we're cognizant we're cognizant of your comments uh chairman that there were two fa variances uh and that uh in part at least the board's deliberations would be influenced uh by the numbers so we take those comments uh seriously we're going to explain how those comments were taken into consideration during the design phase and we think we can reasonably uh address those comments by going into a little more detail having some additional uh exhibits before you to explain uh what's been going on here and talk about some of the houses in the surrounding uh area I've pressed my two experts to do a little bit better job uh to explain this and to uh go through the numbers we believe we have uh a very unique situation here where uh the numbers themselves don't really tell the full story of the Practical uh impact here and that's because we have a situation where we have a permitted height in the zone of 35 feet and we're able to keep the house uh at about 26 feet so we have an unusual situation even though we're over on the F in terms of the front of the house and how it appears we're 9 feet below we haven't added an attic that does not count as F but we think overall in the context the site uh remains suitable we have the language from the Randolf Town Center case on our standards for the D4 variance because we do need that D4 variance and that case s the board to ask the question does the site remain appropriate despite the deviation does the site remain appropriate can the site accommodate the proposal those are really the the key standards uh remain appropriate can the site accommodate and we understand the concern we understand the two types of uh F variances and we're going to uh do our best to address that uh we can do some other things like adding Landscaping like adding a dryw uh to add some benefit to the community if the board thinks that that may make sense doesn't it directly address the F but has some impact perhaps on uh buffering with the neighbors if we can add some trees on the side and some benefit for drainage chairman uh uh surprisingly we we lost the six member uh and you know my client was here and Y uh they got pushed out because of uh the Water problems so uh and we only have about a minute to decide whether to go for you know I need five votes I think all the board members do so we're asking for your Indulgence to uh go forward tonight try to present the case and then uh we're going to ask for your thoughts and comments because we don't want to be in a position where we end up voting and it's four to one so we're gonna the board doesn't have to you know that but we're going to ask for the comment so we can try to work things through we we think the site does remain appropriate we think with a little more explanation uh we can uh put forth information to to get you to that spot but we are going to ask for that relief after we're done to um get some feedback and some comments so that we know whether to seek to vote and we would need all five votes we know that is that okay chairman normal operating procedure we don't want to see anyone fail I I had a case very early in my career and I'll still never forget I had to report back to my boss that uh we lost four in favor of one against and uh and and that was a tough one uh to do but I've learned how to handle that in the 35 intervening years uh so uh with that we have Mr uh Miller you understand you're still on the road sir I do okay you haven't lost your licenses since May 30th you you're still uh architect in state of New Jersey uh chairman can I go forward without requalifying him he was qualified on that 12 minute video uh from uh May the 30th okay so um we Mark some new exhibits a package of three can we call that I think it's A1 because I don't think anything was marked it is A1 A1 is three sheets and Mr Miller you prepared those sheets in conversation with me over the last couple days yes I did okay so uh I'm going to let you take it away and uh talk about uh uh the the issues that are here and and what these exhibits are trying to convey to the board yes thank you very much so last time when we got started obviously we were a little bit rushed because of the the water situation and I think the plans that we produced last time after Mr scolnick was reviewing it thought that we could clarify them in some way to better represent excuse me one second let me just grab this because I have a broken air conditioner and I hate to pull rank for one second but it's the the contractor give me 10 seconds I'm sorry my apologies no worries my weight loss program apparently all right so uh I think these new exhibits are going to help clarify what we uh designed compared to what the existing is where the deviations are and what we're trying to do to mitigate that so we'll start with the first floor I have it up on the screen before me I believe you all have the handout um there are only really two small changes to the building foot print the areas in green the green represent areas of addition the red represents area of demolition um and the yellow represents the changes to the deck so you can see we're removing a illc conceived you know Greenhouse bay window that was put on that you see some so often in the 70s uh we were removing a portion of the deck and reconfiguring it um although that the the changes to the footprint are very minor on the exterior I think the interior changes make a dramatic difference they really bring this house up to date uh away from the 1957 split level that was originally conceived to something that a modern family would want uh what we've done is created a much more open floor plan with the kitchen dining and family room open together uh and just rework things uh what this all amounts to is a net reduction in building coverage by 13 Square ft so normally people come in and they're making the footprint bigger we're actually making it smaller uh so we're actually making a change that reduces the square footage on the first floor from a livability standpoint standpoint the existing garage is extremely narrow it's very difficult to pull a car in especially two modern cars and get them in the garage and open the doors so what we're doing is taking space away from the livable area to make the garage a little bit wider the existing house an extremely deep garage uh which contributes to the overall F and by making the garage wider we're allowing the cars to be off the driveway now and into the garage which is something that everybody wants every town ordinance doesn't want people parking in the in the driveway getting the cars in the garage and so although that is a benefit to the community it's a downside because it contributes to our F even though it's not livable space your ordinance allows a 450 sare foot credit and our garage is 653 ft so over 200 ft of that garage is taken away from the livable space but making the house more attractive by not having two cars parked on the uh driveway so okay so let's just recap the first floor basically a very slight reduction uh it's reconfiguring correct not in terms of floor area um there is an increase because of this change uh with the with the garage corre credit but footprint it's just slightly less I'm going to call it the Minimus or nothing major on the first floor Fair sort of summation I would say that's a fair okay because we're going to get to the second floor that's where the action is exactly yeah because it's a split level house there's very level limited basement space it's uh a lot of the storage and the uh available area was really located in this space behind the garage which we've really incorporated into the garage to have it more flexible so yeah um the footprint changes were very very minimal so okay now we're on sheet two of the handout which is a a rendering of sheet nine of 10 I guess correct yes this represents the existing floor plan to the right and the proposed uh floor plan on the left and so the red is the lower area where removing the roof in that area and adding the green and blue area the green area is two bedrooms and two baths for their uh children uh I would say that these changes on the second floor by reconfiguring them and creating the spaces are really creating the spaces that people are looking for nowadays people don't want a three-bedroom house the existing bedrooms were very very small we're increasing the sizes of the bedrooms but they're still I think modest or more in keeping in line with what other houses in town especially in this neighborhood have as far as bedroom size and features you know our bedroom are uh you know 12 and 1 12 by 13 or 14 which is not uh excessive for a bedroom the primary bedroom has a a reasonable Siz bath it's I would not Define the primary Suite as being oversized at all and one thing I like to note is that uh as you can see here the Blue Area the Blue Area represents a Ved area in your ordinance the floor area is measured to the outside perimeter of the floor space and in this case that blue area contributes to the floor area ratio we have are proposing a 977 increase in floor area on that uh Second Floor area but over a third of that area uh is vaulted space so cont contributes to the calculation but not liveable space and we looked at it and said well what if we eliminated this area what would it change so let's let's pull that second floor forward you you know let's eliminate that vaed area create space uh in the back with roof but at the end of the day it doesn't change the the perception or the scale of the house from the street it creates a dramatic negative impact to the feeling of the house from inside but no difference to the public perception of the house from the outside okay so let let's just go over those numbers the the second floor which includes the two bedrooms and the vaulted ceiling that contributes 977 square feet of the F overage correct and the F overage chairman just to review the numbers um on the on the ratio 21% permitted that would get us 3,45 square feet and we're proposing 28.8% I think that's obviously the concern that's 4,186 square feet all in so we're over by 1141 uh we're over by 1141 977 so the vast majority of it the vast majority is coming from the two bedrooms and the vaunted ceiling right that Doug that's the on on the left hand side of the second sheet here the green and the blue exactly yes right so that's really most of what we're talking about you know there's some relatively minor on the other standard uh when you uh floor area not the ratio 35 20 permitted same 4186 proposed by that standard we're we're over by 666 so that's a little more forgiving standard but we know we have to comply with the ratio so on the ratio we're over by 1141 977 I'm going to call that 90 85 90% of is really coming from those two bedrooms and the area the the the vaulted ceiling on the second floor that's most of that's most of what we're talking about that's what's at stake um tonight I'm going to characterize it we're we're getting to the arguments but we want to make sure it's properly framed in front of the board so we we're all in the same I didn't I looked at that video I didn't really feel like we were all discussing the same thing it was just a number okay so so we have that Doug you've explained now that you know 85 90% of the Varian is to add the second uh the two bedrooms that vaunted area you've gone through and your opinion the the bedrooms the bathroom size the closet size uh not crazy not uh significantly more than modern families are uh looking for today as they as they look to to redo older houses correct yeah it's very in keeping with other houses in this neighborhood that have sold recently uh and one thing to note is that we we couldn't make these bathrooms any smaller they're physically as small as you could fit a shower a toilet and a sink we're not asking for huge vanities luxury items we're asking for practical spaces for Jason and nariel to raise their family we're asking for reasonable size bedrooms that when you look at the size of the bedrooms in the existing house just weren't practical so we're asking to add another bedroom and a little bit more space uh to make the house more livable some vaulted area that makes the interior of the house much more enjoyable without diminishing the impact on the community okay and this this here the green and the blue in the on the left hand version that's you're you're taking the existing roof off I take it correct it's one story there you're going to take the roof off and and and build above it right okay we're going to talk about the the sight lines and the height and all that in a minute but uh it most of this bulk is really in the rear right so could you comment on that from an architectural standpoint I know Mr pasalo is gonna have some thoughts on that yes yes when you look at the house we are on the setbacks on both sides yes we need a a sidey yard setback variance on the right side for the existing non-conforming condition but the for within 10 Ines it's the allowable width of our house of of of the width of a house on our lot so the public perception if we just wanted to go straight across the front is within reason and we're keeping the house very low like we talked about and in my next exhibit I think will show that a lot more clearly so but you know just getting back to these room sizes they're they're not egregious they're I think within reason so let's let's kind of move on to the next uh next slide um this is the third sheet of the handout that I gave you and it's a little confusing at first blush but it's I think as soon as I uh explain it it'll become perfectly clear uh the background here is the front elevation of our house which is part of the original plan set then I what I what I overlay okay so let's just take this slowly yes what you have here is the proposal correct right that's the that's the drawing yes okay then we have the green line right we have a green line and the green line represents the roof line of the existing house okay so let's take it from left to right all the way on the left hand side right there you're going up a little bit and then it so let's right yeah so you go the The Green it's a the roof there's a Gable on the existing house it slopes up then across the main Ridge and we're dropping our roof about a foot and a half from the existing along the left side and then as we go across their house drops down and this is where the the added uh addition is coming in this section of the house here and that's to create enough height for the bedrooms that we're proposing uh the red line represents the maximum Building height so in this Zone you're allowed to build 30 35 ft so if we wanted to build from setback to setback up to the maximum Building height we could theoretically build a house that would infill that red section so when you and that would be conforming for f building coverage and everything else so a a wall of house that tall that high with a steeply pitched roof would create much greater impact to the community as as far as bulk is concerned compared to what we're proposing here okay this is to scale I think this is to scale yes this is to scale and we're saying look if there was a knock down here somebody could go up to 35 feet correct right so it's about and and our we're at about 26 although it goes up and down a little 26 at the highest point we're lower than that everywhere else so we're keeping it much lower and by keeping the house lower we're preserving the air light in open space we're not creating Shadows or or negative impacts to the neighborhood where a new house that would max out the height would have and so you know I think if we put our house next door to this theoretical house that's you know that you probably see all over town that they look at set back to set back let's go up to 35 create the huge attic create you know 10 foot first and second floor plans everything that your ordinance allows you to do and we put these houses side by side on the same street and you drove by and you said hey which one has the bigger f you would say the the 35 foot one not our house so I think in this case when when we look at the public perception of what f is in our case because we don't have those addicts we're trying to keep our house low the numbers really don't tell the story you know you you you know I know you look at something and and you say wow look at that deviation look at these numbers that's too much but then when you look at what the difference is between a conforming house and in a non-conforming house and you compare them side by side if you had to say which one was which in our case you would always say our house is smaller and that's what we're trying to do here we're trying to use architecture and design and consideration for the community to take a lot redesign the floor plan by preserving an existing house not tearing it down and building over it a a house that has been in the Sharon house family since 1957 which has some you know sentimental value to it how do you take a house that they built and reimagine it and bring it up to date and really make it something that you know he and his family can really use and enjoy for years to come and you know that is not what you often see it's bulldozer comes in tears it down and creates a new house so you know we do have hardships we do have issues with trying to work around an existing house dealing with lack of space in the basement lack of space that you can easily create in another style house yeah we could have gone up with you know Big Pitch roofs and and and made the house look more massive but we wanted to have something that really looks like it fits on the street and and that kind of brings me to our next exhibit yeah but per the ordinance an attic doesn't count as the F it doesn't so you can go higher but we really push that attic space right in terms of that doesn't count towards F into low usable space mostly in the rear of the house correct that fair it is a fair you from our perspective on on how we've sort of Tred to strike that balance between the community and the zoning standards and not and the massing considerations that are um clarified so to speak or set forth in the in the strict numbers that we have to follow exactly okay so there was obviously a balancing like all all zoning matters uh here and um obviously from an architectural standpoint you feel like the balancing was reasonable given we are nine to 10 feet below so that that has a an impact on massing I'm sure in your opinion it does and you know it's not like we we sat down and said let's design uh you know this house it was an iterative process we sat down with the client I sat down with Jason and Ariel and said what are we looking to do how do we achieve your goals you know they said let's let's do this let's do that and I said you know let's work together and try to fit make something that really is scale appropriate not something that you're going to drive by and be like whoa look does that house really fit on that lot you know the numbers may say one thing but the public perception and the feeling from the street is another yeah I I think our our lot can easily accommodate the bulk especially with the way the house is designed keeping it low slung keeping it you know uh in more scale appropr and and that's something that you know uh I'll I'll move on to the next next exhibit to show so this uh you had last time it's just up on the screen again so this was part of the original plan set so we're not going to remark that Mr JIS this is part of just call out the sheet number here with this is P1 one of one okay and so the left is the photo of the actual I take it yes uh the left is the photo of the existing house the right is what we've proposed and you can see they look fairly similar in size it one house doesn't look that much bigger than the other so what we're trying to do is use a variety of architectural elements uh we're using a variety of materials a variety of textures different roof lines and different heights to break down the scale and not make that one big boxy house so by having you know the roof lines pitch in each different direction create visual interest and if something is you know you know if someone wears a a outfit that has a pattern on it it it breaks down you know them it's not just one solid thing so by having the house you know in different uh colors different materials different textures really enlivens the house makes it much more attractive um and and you know I just want to stress again that you know by using these variety of roof lines we still kept it low and as we've stressed before 9 ft lower than was required so uh I think you can clearly see the B bulk is really disguised um I think you'd be hardpressed to say that this house is significantly bigger than the other um and so I think this will have a very limited impact on the neighbors they you know we kept the left side a foot and a half lower as I said before on the right side where there's a vertical intensification we're uh light and air and open space available um their house on this side is to our South so even though we need a sidey yard setback we're not creating Shadow on their property there's also very mature screening between the two houses and they don't have any windows on that side of the house either so this the only person that would really be impacted by this are the the neighbor to the right and you know I think the the impact would be dious especially when we compare to what the potential is okay thank you Mr millerman pretty much covered everything thank you for thank you for indulging us we know that a I'm going to suggest that we Mark that exhibit A2 we got A2 the photographs okay all right A2 is uh P1 rendered thank you thank you chairman I appreciate the time to sort of explain a little more I don't think that really came out exactly on uh on May 30th what the thinking was that went into it now those two bedrooms and waled ceiling are 977 out of the 1141 pretty much the whole ball right okay yes okay you want questions or open it up to the public or however you like to anybody on the board the basically the drawings of footprints the same as what you presented last time right yes yes yes thank wait there were no modifications from the last time it all was just a clarification corre clarification correct yeah I think we really tried to come forward with the best house possible originally and I felt that the last time it was so rushed that we really wanted to explain what we were trying to do and and how we origin the original tent of the design of the house so that you could better understand our approach question does anybody in public have any questions for this W this oh back to you sir okay we're gon to call a planner Michael pesano for okay oh there's two okay these were online previously right I'm gonna okay submitted one of them was Mike the first one was submitted submitted but not mark submitted but not marked the second one is a new exhibit yes we're just G to mark them both call sorry A3 and A4 can you just describe those so the attorney can have a little description we're just going to so Mr scolnick if we can be clear the exhibit A3 is going to be the document entitled planning exhibit two at the top is that correct agre sure that's A3 consisting of two pages okay I'm going to take an extra copy an extra copy I'm trying to find uh the first planning exhibit on the uh directory here not seeing it and exhibit A4 which consists of five pages by my count and is entitled planning exhibit for Ariel and Jason sh Shar now that's correct so that's 84 okay that includes photo aerial photographs and photographs of other properties or this property am I correct correct right thank you okay prepared by myself okay let's get me got to get you sworn yes Mr Castellano would you would you uh spell your name please for the record yes I'm Michael J pesano that spelled p SS o l n o licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey do you swear or affirm Mr castalano that any all statements and testimony presented AB board this evening will be true accurate and complete I do consider yourself under oath please and I'll leave Council to qualify thank you much understand you've been recognized as an expert previously but could you give a brief statement of your experience in the field of professional planning yes gladly uh a professional planner for over 40 years in the state of New Jersey and in Massachusetts uh where they don't licensed planners but definitely a licensed planner uh in the state of New Jersey as I speak um 40 years of experience at the municipal level exclusively um serving as in-house Municipal planner serving as Consulting board planner and now in this part of my uh career uh appearing nightly uh before Boards of adjustment and planning boards as an expert planning witness and you've been uh uh recognized as an expert in the field of Planning by the various planning and zoning boards on a regular basis yes and I have served as this Sports uh planning uh expert uh back in uh 2016 2017 I believe and your and your license is in good standing as we speak yes okay you you've had a chance to review the application and the variances light up let us qualify Mr sorry it's okay uh does anyone board have any questions or objections regarding this witness there be no objection the W Witnesses accept as expert as a professional planner we appreciate that okay uh Mike you've had a chance to evaluate the various variances that are required here in light of the statutory criteria and the case law that discusses the floor area ratio VAR is not just a chance but I dove in with all my limbs to understand the the setting of this property and the replicable regulations the master plan policy Etc okay can you give the board the the benefit of your analysis here yes I visited the property and took the photos that appear as ground photos in both of the planning exhibits but to uh kick off um we have a an undersized lot of 14,500 sare ft where 15,000 uh is the minimum so on a a local street we have a a neighborhood a very attractive neighborhood with a nice rhythm of spacing between the dwellings uh all along uh Ridgewood Drive there are abundant signs of dwelling expansions to meet today's needs for Living Spaces uh that were clearly evident in my site visit uh a short while ago um I prepared uh two exhibits one is to um provide the basics uh the second one is more specific I I'm unable to put up on the screen the first one which is the five-page exhibit because I don't see it uh on the um that's A4 A4 is the five pager okay the board has it in front yes I apologize to the audience uh for it not being visible to everyone there may be extra copies of of it on the table if someone really wants one but just quickly uh it's to set the stage for my uh planning analysis remarks uh on A4 uh sheet one is a tax map uh excert showing the subject property uh highlighted in yellow in the center of the screen um this shows a pretty uh homogenous neighborhood as to uh lot Arrangements typical Suburban subdivision um coming into being back in the 1957 uh era probably before that because the the subject home was built in 1957 as were all of the the homes uh nearby it to the North uh particularly the um next sheet is showing uh the zoning District where the subject property is located uh showing that it and all of its surrounding properties are fully within the R3 uh residential Zone District going on to sheet three of five uh a little more detail showing an aerial image of recent vintage uh it's at least U as recent as 2022 too I know that because uh the home at the corner of Bridgewood and Broad La Drive is the current configuration not the uh one-story Ranch that that sat there before uh the twostory at number two Ridgewood Drive I'm talking about it's the uh it's the home right here uh that that told me that this is a fairly recent aerial image um the lot line are superimposed upon it um by the presenters of of this aerial image online uh that is but the takeaway for me is as I scan visually from property to property you know starting with this the subject property you can see a a basic um commonality of uh footprint sizes and you see some variations as well uh some homes are more linear some homes are are a little more articulated um but all in all if if you you study it there's some basic commonality why is that important um it's important because um not all of these lot sizes are the same not all are conforming in fact I'll come back to that uh in the second planning exhibit moving on to the ground photos I took um in my site visit on a fairly overcast day I apologize for the lack of blue skies in these these photos but it in any case the main point is to capture what's on the ground today uh on the site and the surrounding area so page four um takes several perspectives of the existing property uh image one and the upper left shows a a view basically of the front and the left side uh image two shows uh the front and the spacing between that and the home to the north at number nine Ridgewood Drive and then image three shows the opposite side the the spacing between the subject home and the the one at um number U uh 13 Ridgewood Drive as Mr Miller indicated uh substantial spacing and vegetation uh between the two homes at this uh point then finally in image four in the lower right is the uh home that lies to the north the elevation the grade changes slightly from the subject property of the elevation goes down a little bit to the plateau where this home uh sits today then finally uh sheet five of five shows um properties in the surrounding the subject property uh from the sorry I'm not trying to try not to confuse everyone uh image five in the upper left is the home to the immediate South at number 13 Ridgewood Drive it depicts speaks for itself um Image six uh shows the land uses uh the homes directly across the street from 11 Ridgewood Drive image 7 shows um an expanded home at the 8 Ridgewood Drive that's uh on the property on the curve and then image 8 shows uh the newest home uh at number two Ridgewood Drive that's the planning Basics I I do that for pretty much every application uh this application um requires a little more uh detail to to Really depict properly the the ju to position of the proposed development with its uh surrounding uh properties so now I will uh put on screen um my second uh exhibit Landing Exhibit 2 which was marked earlier as A3 okay there's the first page so so a A3 is um busy but uh it shows the important things that I want to get across the the subject property is uh outlined in yellow and uh what the earlier tax map didn't show uh is indicated by these Blue Letter U's that are on five of the parcels that appear on on this tax map excerpt the U stands for uh undersized lot and then uh the images uh capture some of the um visuals for surrounding homes in the immediate neighborhood uh starting at the going around the clock dial at number eight Richwood Drive is this 10 Room 5 bedroom five bath home on a lot of 13,520 square ft which is there um it is above the uh 3520 squ ft maximum and it is above the. 21 uh habitable floor area ratio then at uh number two Ridgewood Drive is this home uh new construction in 2022 15 rooms six bedrooms 5 and 1/2 baths 5,000 squ ft including a full walkout uh finished basement the uh home on broadland uh Drive is shown uh at number 14 Broadline is shown in this image an eight bedroom three bedroom eight room excuse me three-bedroom 4 and 1 half bath uh home which shows evidence of recent uh enlargement modification U vertical expansion it is above the 3520 s foot Max and above the 0. 21 habitable Flor area ratio then uh coming around to the subject property where is proposed an eight room four bedroomroom 4 and a half bath uh on 14,500 Square ft and then uh finally uh just to the north of the subject property is a nine room four bed two bath home on a lot of 13,482 square ft Mike we got to try to get to the core of your testimony thank you the um other uh important aspects of this application I I touched on before evidence in the surrounding area of uh homes that are either modified already or under construction um that's a 25 broad lawn image one image 2 is at 9 Shadow lawn image three at 14 broad La at 14 and 16 Broad LA and then uh 18 broad Lo so this setting says to me that property is uh being attended to to meet the needs of its occupants uh expansions where um they will work have been uh put on the ground today so we have before uh the board application for zoning relief in the form of uh 1 D4 variance which is for uh exceeding the 0. 21 habitable floor area ratio a ratio of 28 is proposed for this application we also have uh aggregate sidey relief uh in the quantity of 085 ft in other words combined side yards fall short just by less than one foot and that is uh on the current Foundation we're not proposing to expand that it is the existing condition and then um there is um the uh floor area I'm sorry the habitable floor area maximum of 3520 Square ft which also must uh be met um is uh proposed to um go to 4186 and that's a change of 666 Square ft so uh starting with the what I call the the negative criteria first I want to review uh why this appears to me to be uh a good fit for uh this neighborhood we have a a visual um element here that is probably the largest consideration U of of all and as per Mr Miller's remarks he explained how the building was designed to be a very careful tuck and fit into this particular setting with u an appropriate design that doesn't overwhelm the site or the neighborhood in fact it it tracks very well with it keeping a two-story facade at the same width that's totally consistent with what's in the neighborhood today uh we have um a a dwelling that's really actually the median width for the all the neighborhood that's from number two to 16 Ridgewood Drive the median width according to tax records is 71 ft this home exists today at 71 ft and is not to be expanded except for the the Upper Floor expansion the um sidey yards are are not being impacted at all it's the existing fabric of the community so I see uh no evidence of anything that would be considered detrimental uh about that let alone substantially detrimental so there is nothing in my view that would rise to the level of a substantial public detriment uh the site will exhibit neighborhood Harmony the site the EXs F will be discreetly located behind the front two-story facade uh the bulk associated with the EXs F will be contained with within uh fully conforming setbacks I'll call it effectively fully conforming again we're we're short by 85 ft to be a totally conforming sideart setback and we have um lower building coverage than required that is being reduced by the 13 square feet mentioned by Mr Mr Miller the uh 085 ft of encroachment in the aggregate sidey yard is not perceivable in my opinion without measurement so under these results uh I find no basis for determination that any detriment will occur let alone one that would rise to the level of substantial as to the Zone plan as you know uh back in 2007 the township amended its zoning regulations to incorporate the standards that we're applying for relief from right now in response to uh egregious excessively overbuilt homes I would not describe the proposed home as anything like that whatsoever it is a regularized home that fits with the homes surrounding it in the neighborhood uh in my profession profal opinion the um the Zone plan itself contemplates right in this spot four bedrooms multiple bathrooms so we're not doing anything uh unusual or different that the Zone plan didn't already contemplate so I see consistency with the Zone plant rather than inconsistency now the the D4 uh variance requires a demonstration of the positive criteria to the effect that will the xsf um produce problems that cannot be met by the project um in other words can the site accommodate any of the problems that might be associated with it so what and that's that very particular uh standard that the Supreme Court set forth it's just like the D3 Coventry Square the D4 Randolph Town Center can the site accommodate the use despite the deviation you have an opinion on that that is uh exactly what I'm explaining that the site does not uh even come close to U producing a problem let alone one um that would alter the the character of the neighborhood um as I said at the outset the effect the impacts are clearly visual here if there are any impacts whatsoever but the visual impact is effectively mitigated by the following um we have generous we have adequate conforming uh sidey yards front yard and height particularly on the height the building the proposed finished product is substantially lower than the 35t allowable Building height to me that ABS fully absorbs and totally mitigates the excess F by that one measure alone so it it is U something that the site literally can deal with in terms of any negative visual impact it already accommodates that by the the the cleverage design uh of this um proposed renovation the pro and in so doing the project promotes the general welfare advancing purpose a which is a special reason uh in the municipal land use law and land use Speak uh which uh the general welfare is Advanced by adhering to the governing bodies chosen spacing and building envelope requirements for single family homes in the R3 Zone uh again the building coverage is well below the maximum today and will be slightly less that's an additional mitigation measure that says to me this is not an overreaching uh offensive project uh compared with the surrounding homes this will remain very compatible in size and as Mr Miller uh very eloquently pointed out you really wouldn't be able to tell that this is uh deviation from the the F requirements we have adequate parking Supply um we have adequate utilities and waste handling so I I have to conclude on the basis of those facts that the site can indeed accommodate uh any problems that would be associated with the additional uh habitable floor area ratio uh the uh bulk relief which is the habitable floor area the aggregate sidey yard uh can be approved pursuant to the C2 analysis which is a weighing analysis do the benefits of of granting that relief um outweigh the substan ially outweigh the detriments and I believe that it does this is part of an overall beneficial project which largely conforms to the building requirements and improves the suitability and functionality of of living space for the applicant uh given the substantially lower Building height than permitted the minute sidey deficiency is actually less visually impactful to the neighbors than would be the case for a full height structure that is built to the aggregate sidey yard minimum requirement so uh the uh purpose a of promoting the general welfare and purpose C promoting promoting adequate light a and open space are the public benefits that go on the positive side of weighing the uh this variance relief as to the habitable floor area overage uh the new construction uh on the subject lot will enhance the appearance of the built environment Advance advancing purpose I which is to advance uh and promote a desirable visual environment um this is a specific pie piece of property uh that this relief would apply to so the requested bulk relief can be approved by virtue of the benefits of the project as a whole outweighing uh substantially any detriments and that is pursuant to the pull in case where you look at the project as a whole not parse out each individual uh variance the application uh satisfies the statutory criteria for approval of all requested relief and respectfully I submit that your approv approval is wared thank you thank you chairman we we appreciate that uh the time you've given us thank you try to explain the project and fall how it fits into the setting are you g to have anybody else or that's it that's what you got that's what we got does anybody uh we're trying to be we don't think it's that complex at the end of the day does anybody have any questions for this witness anybody in the public have any questions for this Witness anybody want to make a statement at all I'll make U I'll make a statement so um thank you for your witness I appreciate the detail that you have shared and uh um I I think the fact that the the share n have lived in this house since 1957 is is uh generations of the family have lived um we definitely want to keep the family in town so uh that is one but but that does not uh the application is separate from that sentiment uh even though there is uh floor area and floor area ratio both in the uh application here it is essentially keeping the same footprint that uh the existing house is and I also appreciate the fact that even though the roof could be 35 you are keeping it at 26 aesthetically speaking it wouldn't look nice in any any case but I do appreciate that we are keeping it low so um I think it's it's a it's a good Improvement it modernizes the house and we've seen enough evidence of the neighborhood and the kind of properties and developments that have happened so I think it was good for me thank you anybody else want to um I too appreciate um the thoughtfulness with the Building height and I appreciate you didn't max it out and I agree that it's an upgrade to the community and fits in quite nicely with the other remodeling that's gone on I concur with my friends here uh but yeah you glad you kept the uh you did a lot of improvement by keeping the uh footprint as the previous house so thank you very much I'll just add I appreciate all the explanation that was given that does uh help the board a lot to clarify the intent of the project um and how you try to minimize what was going on because it's it's still you know difficult but I think this helps a lot we tried best we could yeah okay any chairman I I had asked at the beginning I I think there there's a a sense but I don't know if Mr Khan Mr sha excuse me would be willing to share because I don't want to go home with a four to one vote if he has I I conc with everybody's thank you it's my job it's my job not to have that same phone call I did that I still remember 34 years ago correct me if we look at this uh variance DD it allows them as long as they keep the footprints of the house in the same area so I think you're in good shape thank you Mr sh I appreciate would somebody like to make a motion then I'll make a motion I'll second it all right M well Mr Kenya yes yes Mr M Mirage yes Mr sha yes Miss K what yes chairman beer yes thank you for your time thank you so much thank you congratulations yes yeah yeah congratulations that's appreciated please call the next application block 1405 lot 122 North ashb Avenue application number 202 24-15 DV Carlos Campa Verde sorry if I mispronounced the name applicant seeks approval for first and second floor addition in violation of the following sections 170-20 yard setback 40 ft required 24.1 7 proposed 15.83% one proposed 2.29 variant requested 17087 cc4 habitable floor ratio 30% allowed 47.1 n% proposed 17.1 9% variance requested okay just you need you need a minute did you want to step out while you're setting up give us two minutes yeah for e no problem welcome okay okay what do you got good evening Mr chairman uh George held I'm the architect for the project Mr Carlos Pino is with me he's the owner of the project okay would you like to S okay uh Mr chairman I've testified as an architect all through the state but I've never had the privilege let swear you in first let me swear you in first then give us the Spiel Mr H do you swear or affirm that any statements you make and any testimony present to the board this evening will be true record and complete I do consider yourself under oath is it Mr campie yes Mr Camp you Carlos Pino camper is that correct and do you swear or affirm that any statements and testimony you give to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete than consider yourself under oath Mr H would you be kind enough to give us your credentials yes Mr chairman thank you um George held 600 Getty Avenue s307 Clifton New Jersey uh licensed architect for 46 years with my own firm for 36 of those years over that time my firm has designed and constructed over 26,26wh retail complex Cent car dealerships high-end commercial high-end residential and in some some cases uh smaller projects like the one we're presenting to you this evening I've testified throughout the state from Ramsey all the way down to Tom's River as a licensed architect and your your credentials are in good standing and they are respectfully Mr chairman I suggest that the board consider qualifying Mr H thank you um anyone the board have any object questions or objections regarding this witness uh there be no objections the witness is accepted as an expert in architecture as offered um and just for the record Mr Sherman did return for this application uh Mr chairman I I apologize I'm not familiar with your system so neither am I Jackie so I I have my own boards if that's easier go plans perfect okay thank you okay this is 12 North ashburg Avenue this is an interior lot just south of bount Pleasant Avenue the lot is 50 by 100 and by Nature is an undersized lot for the Zone which is an R4 an R4 Zone the lot is is bounded by residential on the North side and on the west side to the east side is a vacant lot to the South side which is very important is a commercial property which is presently a car dealership this is an existing one-story structure on this site um it presently has three bedrooms three small bedrooms on the first floor very small kitchen dining area living room and an enclosed porch uh the project we're proposing this evening is to renovate the first floor leaving one bedroom expanding the kitchen uh adding a a usable bathroom to this floor and the second part of the project will be adding a second floor to the building which will add a primary Suite with a primary bathroom two bedrooms and a prim and a main bathroom uh this project is compliant with your ordinance with a few exceptions one is our front yard setback we have proposed the reload to locate the second floor Edition back from the front of the house giving us a little bit more front yard and on the south side of the house we're pulling the southide elevation in five feet which will give us more room or more sidey yard setback on that side as well so we are trying to work with your setbacks understanding that the existing home is located where it is so our front yard setbacks are required 30 feet the existing is 16.5 proposed is 24.7 so as I said we're moving the second floor back to give the front yard a little bit more room side yard setbacks are required to be 10 we have 16.7 on the driveway side and as little as 2.71 on this North side or the South Side I'm sorry um that we were proposing to be 16.7 and 17.1 by moving that addition 5 feet North on the on the existing structure the larger variance here is the habitable floor area ratio uh required in this zone is 30% the existing is 27.8 six the proposed is 47.3 I'd like to point out because this is an undersized lot if we had the square footage required in this Zone which is 9,375 by the area of the existing house proposed we'd be down at 25.5% so there in lies our hardship the undersized lot is keeping us down within the M minimum habitable floor area we are trying to work with that as closely as possible we've designed I think a house that is comparable to the other homes in the area these are not oversized rooms uh the Pino family bought this house with hopes living to moving to Livingston to me to live here uh like most growing families they need a little bit more room so this addition will afford them the livability on the first floor and give them the bedrooms on the second floor um I need to get to the elevations okay so the dotted line you can see here represents the existing roof line on the house because we are shrinking the second floor and not building out to the same extent on the first floor the actual height increase from Ridge line to Ridge line is only about 8 ft we are designed the addition still with hip roofs to minimize the overall impact of the appearance of the home so the house will stay within the confines of the architecture of the regional structure by still keeping the roof line as low as and compact as possible one of the photographs we sent um and I let me see if I can get that I'm having trouble you get it okay perfect so if you could see this is the first the photograph of the front of the house if you'll notice to the right of the house where're our property line we're only about 2 and 1/2 ft off that property line there's a heavy stand of trees that separate this property from the commercial real commercial property which is a car dealership so for the most part this house overlooks the roof of the car dealership so really the the S of trees will act as a perfect buffer between the two properties and that's the side of the property where we're closest that's our close property line at 2.7 feet so we are moving the second floor as I said over 5 feet increasing that sidey yard I think it'll work nicely with the architecture of the home still afford the coveres the square footage they need to make the house work uh it is their hope that they will move here raise their children here uh the bedroom on the first floor is a future room for one of their in-laws that may you have to move with them at some point uh so this home will afford that uh I have nothing further Mr chairman thank you is anyone on the board any questions to mind a correction you said car dealership or you need gas station it's a gas station yeah the the property to the south of us here is a gas service station yeah okay yeah I I thought you said dealership yes okay anybody else have any questions yes I do have a question so you are pushing the front back a little bit to to be more compliant yes we we are not in lining with the front porch we're going to be back 8 ft so so we're pushing the front second floor back okay and and and similarly the side the South Side the south side which is our smaller side which is 2.7 ft now we're moving that second floor wall off 5T to increase that side yard to 7.7 ft okay and then there'll be a second story construction there'll be that that will be the second floor thank you thank for clarification the first floor is staying the same the second floor the footprint of the house is remaining the same we are not increasing the footprint of the home at all nor decreasing it so okay that better okay and you're on the left side you're removing the fireplace and on the right side you're removing the side entrance we are that also a little B more space on either side yeah the small side entrance to the South Side we're removing and the fireplace and chimney on the North side will be removed as well anybody else in the board have any questions or comments does anybody in the public have any questions for this what is Please Mr held um in terms of the qualifications in order to satisfy the the requirements of expanding the floor or accepting the floor area ratio uh is it your determination as an expert that the proposed development as designed has adequate capacity to accommodate the uh additional floor area ratio without detriment I I believe it is yes all right and that you believe that this design is appropriate for the neighborhood and what it's I I think if you take a look at the overall homes in the neighborhood this house is actually a small undersized house and on a undersized lot the house is actually a little rund down uh the elevations we propose will be a new home we're residing the house new Windows Doors new roof so with the appearance of this home will be a new structure I think it'll be a nice Improvement to the overall neighborhood as well as a good home for the camper veres to raise their children thank you very much I have a question where is your garage what are you proposing for the garage here the the garage is existing uh it's in the back of the lot it's a detached garage in the back of the lot and that's not changing just being that's not changing we we are not affecting that garage and just to be clear you said that if this was a full-size lot you would be basically within the if if this was a 9,500 ft lot with the square footage we're proposing we'd be at 25% we'd be well underneath your HB HF requirement and your floor area is almost 900 square ft less than what's required ired yes so it's very modest house I I believe it is yes did I ask if anyone in the public had any questions okay does anyone in the public want to make any statement regarding this application anybody on the board want to make a statement if you want you don't have to not it's it's a rather narrow shallow lot and I appreciate the fact that you are creating a bigger yard in the front and a little more space on the north side of the proper south side of the property uh so distancing it a little more from the gas station because when I went I it did concern me that was so close to the the property line so I think that will that I thoughtfulness I appreciate I think the upgrade that you're doing is modest and probably needed for a family so um and like you said you're not really if if it was a normal siiz lot you would not be here that's correct so um for that reason I I think um I'm in favor of uh this application I also give some calm feedback here I pass that property every day going into work coming back and I when the house went for sale I looked at it and finally I guess you purchased it and by you doing this addition it's going to be very good to the neighborhood thank you but I can now enjoy my ride going to [Laughter] work would anybody like to make a motion I'll make it since uh it's it's on my way to work so I'll second it Mr K yes Mr Mr um Mr shman yes M Mr sha yes M marage yes Miss K yes Mr be chairman yes we have a motion thank congratulations thank you for thank you for your time thank you all right let's call the next one as soon as you're ready y keep it right block 2200 lot 459 Westminster Drive application number 202 24-6 DV manot J balil pardon me if I'm mispronouncing applicant seeks approval for a second floor addition in violation of the following sections 17097 C2 front yard setback 60 ft required 40.0 to propos 19.98 variance requested 17-9 7c4 rear yard setback 50 required 33.5 proposed 16.5 variance requested 17087 cc2 habitable flow ratio 18% allowed 27.4% proposed 99.04% VAR requested okay who do you got who's here okay would you um Gentlemen please provide us with your names and spell them please gal y u v l wellish w l l i s c h do you swear or affirm that any and all testimony and statements you give to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete I do consider yourself under oath and your credentials please um I've been in front of this many times licensed architect Jersey and my I'm just about hearing you I'm sorry I'm sorry speak that oh sorry my license is uh valid and in good condition and I've been before this board many times all right thank you and and many other towns all over the state all right Mr chairman for architecture we're talking about I'm sorry did I say you're going to give testimony and architect cure yes yeah okay Mr chairman does anyone on the board have any questions objections regarding this witness that be there be no objection the witness is accepted as an expert in architecture sir would you provide us with your name and spell it please my name is William Scott s TT Mr Scott do you swear or affirm that any an all statements you make to this board this evening will be true accurate and complete yes I do consider yourself under oath Mr Scott would you provide us with your credentials uh I am a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey I've have had my license in good standing since 2014 um I've appeared uh in numerous boards throughout the state of New Jersey um I have not appeared before uh this board previously um however I have prepared um a minor subdivision that's passing through the township now Mr chairman um and your schooling oh I'm sorry I have a Bachelor of Science degree from the Clarkson University School of Engineering in New York state okay um and um does anyone on the board have any questions objections regarding this witness there be no objection the witness accept as expert in professional engineering thank you now I need you all right I'm just not Jackie will be charging a fee soon for this to learn no butage part of it so very much the other two applications over here we're actually talking about existing please yeah please use a mic yep it's okay over here okay so much like the other two applications we're talking about an existing um split level house that we are actually adding um a second floor which will be the master bedroom suite and with some interior um making the kitchen a little bit bigger making the family room a little bit um different but we're not protruding out of the existing Excuse Me Foundation line nor do we change any of the setbacks what we have today and I want the board to understand that the other houses on the street are pretty much within a foot or two maybe less same setback for front setback as this house the um setback is 60 ft and always we have is 40. 02 the rear setp is 50 and what we have is 33 and2 the addition the second floor is much smaller than that in the front it's the same in the in the uh back it goes in um I want to show it over here this is the front of the house I mean this is the front when you look from the side this is the front line and we are receding the second floor from the line know the first from here to here which is about 12 ft you can remove the mic and hold it let's hold fingers see if it goes okay so as you can see on this one it's the same thing this is the the addition of the second floor set back Mr yish yeah because when you turn away from the microphone I know I have to get used to it so oh I can take it out excellent prend your Frank and I you look like a rockar now so this is the addition of the second floor and this is the existing uh family room which you can see over here this is the line of the back this is the line of the front when you look from the side and this is the second floor which is from the front is about 6 feet in from the back about 11 12 ft in um the first thing that I want the board to know is that the size of the lot is less than half of what the zone is um considering as a minimum the minimum is 25,000 square fet and we have 11,254 so if this addition which brings the house to 3,034 square ft would be on a normal lot we wouldn't be here because we would be at 12% whereas the the maximum allow is 18 right now we're asking for 27 point2 02 that's I don't remember that number so basically we're way under what would have been a normal lot okay um why we're doing it the kids are growing they're still in the house there's a possibility of bringing an old parent into here so the the master bedroom on the first floor would be dedicated for that and this is why we need a new master which is right here what we're adding is a master bedroom a closet and a bathroom pretty much what's on the first floor as bedrooms all stays the same all right I'll try to get to the floor plan to see to show it to you okay this is the first floor okay whatever is in black is new but this is actually existing we're just changing the wall from 2x4 to 2x6 to get more insulation all right so all this is existing all that is without any change the kitchen changes a little bit because now it becomes more modernized with an island we're taking a couple of walls over here of to make it a little bit more open but basically it stays the house has the same perimeter as it is now and the garage is under second floor this is the roof plan of the whole house this is the addition of the second floor with you can see the second the the first floor roof on top of it so we're going to go up here following the same staircase that we have today then we have a master bathroom a master bedroom uh sorry with the toilet with a shower with double sink with a tub couple of closets and another bedroom over here for whoever's going to come maybe an older parent not sure about that but it's just in preparation in the meantime it will serve as a study until that comes that's pretty much in a in a nutshell but the best thing to say is this will be looking a lot better than what the house is looking today I don't have a picture I didn't know that I have to send the township pictures but I will go back this is how the house is going to look using uh Hardy plank sing so that siding that doesn't get old very quickly all right no vinyl siding we also have variety of trim and if the board knows what AAC is it's all going to be made out of AAC that doesn't get old it doesn't rot like the old Pine that we used to use in the olden days and aone a stone skirt over here instead of the very old break that we have today and that's pretty much what we're going to do I have one quick question there's a new set of plans from that was submitted this time compared to in preparation for any change no there's no there what what happened last time when the water problem yeah I got the letter from the zoning officer one day before the meeting and there was a mistake over there so we had to redo it that's what I saw actually for the better because I not only my calculations there only officer calcul we were both wrong so now it's about about 70 feet less than it was yeah okay that's what I thought it was but yeah I just wanted to clarify for the record sure uh does anyone on the board have any questions I have a question so you pointed out that in the first floor plan the dark black lines are the same walls but newer walls thicker for better insulation is the same with the second floor the second floor is completely new it's completely new that's why it's black that's all black yes got it I want to once it goes to the building department and because I build in this town only 32 years that's the agreement we have I sh in Black what's new and they like it appreciate it the continuing question from uh my friend here Bita the the black line in the first floor you say that the walls are thicker are they stick more thicker sticking out or you pulling it no no I'm sticking in sticking in yeah okay we're not we're not touching the plywood and the we're taking the siding out but we're not changing the wall we're just adding to every 2x4 we're adding a 2x6 okay 2X it's going to be stronger and not out of the it's not sticking out of the foundation line it's staying no no Foundation is not touched the reason to do that is because the family room which is in the back is exposed from both sides the rear and the roof and there's no doubt that it's going to be cold or warm so that's why we're doing it thank you you're just sistering everything everything and then okay yes okay I think thank you anybody in the public have any questions for this witness okay thank you all right Mr Scott you're up I'm going to try to bring up my plan here so this is the site plan that uh we prepared uh and was submitted uh to the left of the sheet you can see in Gray the existing house uh to the right of the sheet you can see um pink shaded areas that are overlaid the gray and that will give you um a feel for what's being added um to the home uh Mr wellsh went over the setbacks um I wanted to zoom in on this house so you can see really what the impact of the setbacks are this dash line that runs through the middle of the house is the ex front setback and this line that runs through the rear of the house is the rear setback the side yard here side yard here so you can see approximately half of what we're proposing is trying trying to keep it within the setbacks um but it is all within the existing footprint of the building um this is the rear of the house existing can you see the cursor I don't know if you could see it or not um and the pink is the uh proposed house so you can see we're setting the proposed second floor back about 12T from the existing rear yard and likewise this is the front of the existing house where the garage is and the pink again is set back about 6 feet from that and you can see both side yards uh very much compliant where the addition is uh from an engineering perspective it's a pretty simple project uh this is a steep slope lot it uh slopes from the rear to the front uh so any land disturbance is of course discouraged it's a perfect lot to build on second floor above the first floor uh very little land disturbance associated with the development access off the existing driveway uh it's a wooded lot uh we don't anticipate any tree removal uh there's large trees on site there to remain there's a minor decrease of impervious coverage very minor uh we are taking a set of stairs off of the left side of the house believe 38 Square ft so in theory there'd be a minor decrease of runoff from the site and again I think the scope and scale of what we would have if we had the existing um 25,000 Square F feet that is required it gives us 12% uh which is a large difference from the 18 which is allowed so i' be happy to answer any questions you might have or um quick question um two quick questions lot 59 which is behind you I guess yes um what's there there's a house back there oh I forget I looked and I foret was back there now yeah you you really wouldn't be able to see it um the rear of this property is about 50 ft higher than the front so after we add the second floor to this the roof of this house is still lower than the back of that backyard yep okay and and I what was my other question oh the retaining walls is there anything happening to the retaining walls um we've discuss that there just to remain as is anybody else have any questions for this witness if I might Mr Please Mr Scott I don't know if this should go to Mr wellish is is it your determination and your opinion that the proposed development as designed uh will has adequate capacity to accommodate the proposed floor area ratio to increase without any detriment I'll take it from either one of you I believe so I believe so too so both of you agree yeah oh I'm happy thank you anybody else anybody in the public have any questions for this witness nope anybody like to make a statement a motion go for it I'll go for it you make a you're making a motion motion yes I second it here we [Applause] go a got to vote thank you but you got to vote I'm the filling filling in Secretary tonight A oh thank you thank you so we have uh Mr sha made the motion and yes and Miss marage seconded okay Mr Kenya yes oh I should have okay I guess I'm getting a hang of it uh Mr Sherman yes Miss Conor whats yes chairman beer yes we got all motion next motion congratulations congratulations thank you thank you thank you lot of pressure up here yeah can you please call the next application block 1304 L 8672 North ashp Avenue application number 2024 D20 DV Pam Summers and Kenneth kleene applicant seeks approval for two-story rear addition in violation of the following section 17087 l1d front side front slide Corner yard setback 35 ft acquired 15.7 fet proposed 19.3 ft variance requested good evening good evening how are you oh screen just went black there it goes like to S everybody in sir yeah sure miss Summers Mr Klein would you please State your names and spell them for us please my name is uh Kenneth kleene uh k n n t Klein k l e i n I'm Pamela Summers p m e l a s u m m e RS Miss Summers and Mr Klein uh do you swear or affirm that any statements or testimony you give to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete I do consider both of you under oath and how are you I'm doing well how are you you're Mr Appel yes all right Mr Appel would you please say give us your name and spell please uh lawence LP and Mr Appel do you swear or affirm that any statements and any testimony give to the board this evening will be true accurate and complete yes I would you kindly uh discuss your credentials with the board please uh yes I hold a b of Science degree in civil engineering a masters in architecture I'm here to be admitted as an expert in architecture I am currently liced newy New York psyl and certified myrent I and the Z numerous and qualified as an architect thank you well I know I'm saying and you were qualified as an architect yes Mr chairman and can we just have your schooling excuse me your schooling uh yes um I I have a master's degree in AR un okay great um does anyone in the board have a question or objections regarding this witness there be no objections the wi is accepted as expert in architecture great thank you you're up um I'd like to say that Pam and I currently live at 72 North ashy Avenue um it's a three bedroom 2 and a half bath split level it's built in 1960 by mitchley um the house is on a corner lot it faces North Ashby but um the side side faces uh the southern border f is U board in place um it's a um R4 we're in R4 with a 75 foot width 125 uh foot depth um we're non-conforming currently on the southern border where uh you guys require 35 ft to be back on the side uh the house is back 15t 7 in that was built that way um I'd like to turn it over to Larry to take you through we we're we're planning a small addition I I've lived in the house for 34 years um Pam has lived there for 25 years I've lived in Livingston for 60 years we'd like to spend the rest of our lives in Liv Livingston buried in the backyard not buried we're not going to be buried in the backyard but um it's not non-conforming non-conforming we we'd like to spend it here um we the last thing I would want to do is to sell this house which I love to one of these Builders to tear it down I don't want to do that um so I like to turn it over to um we have we're planning a small two-story Edition on the Southeast corner and Larry if you could take them through it it would be great perfect thank thank you very much um I have um uh five sheets here um that that are up I don't think I need to um mark it as an exhibit it's identical to what you have in your packages uh it's dated 42624 um um I think the homeowners have uh given a little bit of uh an intro to uh where we are um the this lot is undersized existing um is 9,327 square ft um where 9,370 5 Square ft is uh required um the front um side yard is existing non conforming um as was indicated um the original plat on the old survey that we found um indicated that the uh the sidey yard setback um what would be referred to as a front side yard setback was um required at 15 ft where currently um the zoning ordinance requires it to be 35 feet and currently it's at 15.7 feet there was a question that's not 15 um 15' 7 in but 15.7 just wanted to make sure that was correct on the record so um and interesting um interestingly is my understanding is that this sidey yard setback condition is um um a product of lot width so we of 7 25 ft or more would require um a 35 ft um front slide yard setback however if we were an inch smaller in here my understanding is that the front side yard setback would cut down to 20 feet so it's just a just an interesting um Nuance about how some of these uh metrics work in here so we're looking to construct a small um one and twostory rear addition to expand the size um of the house slightly this is to accommodate and I will um will can everyone see if I'm pointing or do they prefer me to point physically just oh you can see you can see the if you can see the cursor I'll I'll stay focused on the uh on the mic then it's not allowing me to let's try this ah there we go so the area question um this uh drawing z-3 shows the existing conditions and I'm going to switch to ZB D4 and it shows that um the primary two pieces in here we took an existing family room that was at the lower level um the house only has a onecar garage in an undersized onecar garage we look to um convert this um existing family room to a second garage um which is common um in a lot of residences in uh in town and in addition we wanted a little extra space so that there were places for recycling trash cans and other other storage in here as well and so what we look to do is replicate um you know what was the family room just to the rear of the house um behind we're looking to have a very similar size family room so we're we're we're not creating a larger space we're just trying to replicate the existing space the only new space is here is that we we use what I'll call some of this no man's land it's a it's a larger um rear Hall and it creates a mud room and um that felt like an appropriate place and it worked well in the scheme um above this we created a low roof over the new powder room and then um a twostory um addition above the family room that allows us to take what was the existing master or primary suite and um creates a um some additional closet space and allows us to also bump out the two front bedrooms just a couple of feet into the CER which allows these rooms to be larger so it's a it's a rather small modest um addition and some of the pieces that I would um mention in here is is in addition to what we were what we were doing um with the floor planning we tried to keep the character of the house somewhat intact we weren't looking to make a huge change but we made some subtle um refinements we added a portico to the front we added a brow above the garage doors we stepped the um rear addition um as it faces the side so that there was a step in the roof and all these things we felt were um architecturally appropriate and also help to um Demas the new addition so um to kind of sum up the the variance the lot is under size as we discussed before in the R4 Zone uh we are fully conforming with um um habitable floor area um floor area ratio um all of all of the um Building height as well you know we're um clearly we're only 21 ft High um with this addition so um all of these things are well below what is the the current zoning bulk requirements and metrics the only reason we're here is that there's an existing non-conforming front yard setback now neither the existing house or the new addition um meets the current sidey yard setback um currently 15.7 um feet where 35 is required this necessitates a 19.3 um foot variance um I want to skip to a photograph and I'm going to zoom this in a little bit because I think this is quite telling you can see that there is a very substantial landscape buffer um at the rear of the house um so and I'll push this another view of same in here and this is um helps um buffer the area the only let me uh going to go up to the site plan um this is facing um bordon uh bordon place and that Landscaping is in this area over here and so this front side yard setback is really impacting um Bor and place and not any of the direct neighbors and we felt that this is quite important because it doesn't create doesn't deprive any of the neighbor Neighbors of of privacy loss of um light air um um so we we felt that um there's um good reason to do this the way we were doing it we found um appropriate places to keep the addition small and compact we um are not trying to create um overly large places um we looked at various places to put the addition this is the most sensible Place obviously the garage needs to be right where it is placing the garage anywhere else will cause additional impervious coverage um there's already a um twocc car wide driveway there so we're not having to do additional driveway space so all these things kind of just fell into place and and made a lot of sense and kept this from exploding into a much larger addition so um these architectural um improvements were um we've already discussed um the rear of the property is contiguous with the sidey yard of the ad Jason so um we um um we have abundant light air as well as privacy if the property were not a corner lot um this issue would not even exist because um all of our setbacks would have been um prop and maintained um we did receive um a comment from the engineering department with regard to uh preparing a lot drainage and grading permit this will be done when we submit for permit if we if the board is so inclined to approve this application um so in in summary in here we believe in our professional opinion that the proposed addition has been designed to address the existing non-conforming lot configuration and as well the request to relief in our professional opinion can be granted without negatively impacting any of the neighboring Properties or any detriment to the public good so I thank uh and if there's any questions that I can answer address for the board I'd be happy to okay does anybody have any questions for this Witness um I'll just just for clarification um so your extension is not extending into the backyard any further than the existing enclosed wood deck that is correct we're using that line that's a that's a very good observation um the the one thing I would clarify in here is that it looks like the geometry is a little bit skewed and we did match the 15.7 but if the board were so inclined to approve this application this evening we would um um request if possible that the um that there's there's going to be a little bit of a rounding error um in here now alternatively we instead of doing it um building it Square we could match that 15.7 it looks like to be a fraction of of a foot you know it's just you know a couple of inches to make it square but um if you know depending on how the board um acts in here this evening we could either match that or if the approval was based on something slightly smaller than that um 15.7 and I wasn't sure how to address that something I noticed that the um when I was in the cad file that the geometry is not quite Square so there is going to be a slight rounding error if we need to address that and hold that we will make sure that the contractor pins the foundation and holds that Jackie what do you think on that we have to hold a 15.7 probably you agree yes okay that's that's fine I just wanted to to I appreciate that to be to be clear something I um notice when reviewing we we appreciate when everyone's on upfront with stuff no no that's it saves a lot of headaches down the road so um okay and he said the driveway staying the same um um and all the hedging and everything else will stay as is yeah I a long time ago I I bought 10 aror bushes and they told me they were go to be six feet tall and that would be it but then now they're 15 feet tall right I can't even get on a ladder to that's why Pam takes care of that right yeah um okay um does any one additional com we we we were planning also on putting an elevated uh deck it's in there it's in there it's on the it's okay and and and that that part does not trigger any uh varant sorry yeah no you're good on that um does anybody in the public have any questions for this witness anybody want to make a statement or a motion I can make a motion I'll second it okay call uh Mr Kenya yes oh I you're first okay Miss Kan WS uh made the motion Mr Sherman seconded it Mr Kya WS yes Mr sha yes Miss marash yes chairman via yes application approved congratulations congratulations thank you thank you very much thank you good luck does anybody need a break or we're okay okay don't don't don't come crying to me good night everyone good night block 1301 lot 633 Congressional Parkway application number 224-18 DV Diane and Thomas Cooney applicant seeks approval for two-story front and rear addition and garage and violation of the following sections proposed addition 17099 C2 front yard setback for ft required 17.09.2011 17087 cc4 habitable floow ratio 30% allowed 35.4% proposed 5.4% variance requested accessory structure garage 17087 e 1 D4 rear yard setback 5 ft required 3 ft proposed 2 ft variant requested 17087 e1e sidey yard set back 5 ft required 2 ft proposed 3 ft variance requested 17087 E1 F4 floor area 5% allowed 7.6% proposed 2.6% variance requested okay Mr Cooney yes Thomas Cooney I turn you over to our Mr Cooney would you uh please uh State your full name and spell it for us please Thomas Cooney t h o m s c o o NE y Mr Cooney do you swear or affirm that any and all statements you make to the board this evening any testimony you offer to the board will be true accurate and complete yes I do do you have any other witnesses that you're prepared to present uh no uh my architect felt confident that I could do the presentation so I'm here with uh no props no Witnesses I'm just going to advise how this project came about and what we hope to do all right well you to the floor is yours okay well I'm going to outdo all the previous applicants in terms of time in town um by a long shot um so the house at 33 Congressional Parkway um my great-grandfather purchased the house it was built in late 1928 he moved in in early 1929 before it was finished he had to use a ladder to get to the second floor at the time he was a machinist who worked for Thomas Edison in West Orange and and since that time uh five generations have lived in the house uh it is Our intention if we can do it to maintain the house uh in the family um with an eye on possibly having a SI sixth generation lived there um no pressure on the kids but that's that's our hope um so just a little bit of background um my mom is here she's the last surviving relative of any of the uh original houses on Congressional Parkway or any of the side streets um so one of the things we wanted to do is uh renovate the house bring it to a more Modern Standard uh it has the original Plumbing original sewer uh there's no insulation uh the wiring was replaced sometime around World War II it all has to go so it needs a complete renovation uh obviously um so the upgrades we want to do and I've had a number of meetings and and proposals back and forth with uh Mr emert our architect um we wanted to make sure that any upgrades that we did would fit the character and style of the residences in the neighborhood us being the the oldest family in the area um we wanted to make sure of that for all of our neighbors um we do own the empty lot next to it uh which is uh is also in the family we have resisted the temptation to merge the lots and put up a a larger house that is completely out of character for the neighborhood we don't want our family Legacy to be that uh which we could easily do but none of us feel that way um we are severely limited because the original house uh the one we're discussing tonight is on a 50 by 100 lot uh which is only 5,000 square ft So based on current modern standards and codes it's I wouldn't say impossible but pretty close to it to do any of the things that we had hoped um so getting to the applications and the house itself um the intent is for uh the construction of a small reare addition I say small you may not uh we wanted to expand that um to give us a little bit more uh floor space on the first floor which would enable us to once we open it up to a more open concept uh have a uh half bath powder room on the first floor which we've never had before um and by bringing that up to the second floor um that would allow us to maintain the sizes of the bedrooms perhaps even make them a little bit larger um one of the concerns we had initially was the current closets are only slightly larger than my locker at Livingston high school uh so that is uh very difficult to work with if you make the closets any bigger the rooms get even smaller um and uh one of the other uh requests that I'll mention uh is for a second bathroom on the second floor um we've only had one bathroom in there all these years and as you can imagine by modern standards that is not uh not what people do nowadays um so the addition uh would essentially be the 5T by 12T um addition to the footprint which is really just squaring off if you have the photos there you can see the kitchen bump out uh we would just be squaring that off and then going up which would allow us that additional space on the second floor which would allow us to uh keep the bedrooms uh at an acceptable size and allow for larger closets and a wider hallway and also the wider stairway that would be required now which is going to uh actually encroach on one of the existing bedrooms so that part of the application the habitable floor ratio 17 87cc uh Mr Emer has proposed um it's currently allowed 30% uh he has proposed uh with the drawings that he submitted 35.4% adding 5.4% um so that rear that small rear addition would allow us to modernize the house and make it more usable by modern standards not only for our family but down the road if we were ever to sell it anyone else that uh desired to purchase it would uh have all of that available to them as well um so moving on to the uh front yard setback uh for the uh addition of the second bathroom on the second floor um currently the allowable is 40 ft for that zone uh proposal of 17.09.2011 and architecturally our hopes are that we can uh fabricate or find the original uh window type that was on the porch back in the 1920s um to add as an architectural uh uh Point um so again that would not be uh exceeding the footprint of the house just the the back Edition would um and based on um our review of the other homes uh it's pretty consistent with a number of homes on on the street uh I don't think it would impact anyone certainly not any of our uh immediate neighbors um but it would add some character to the house while trying to maintain some of the old character um so that's what we hope to do um that would be over the front porch so the garage which is probably the biggest concern for us at the present time uh was built on the ground uh as I said in 1928 29 I'm not sure exactly when they built it um it is in grave disrepair uh the front is actually leaning I'd say probably 12 to 15° toward the houses on Filmore if the garage were to collapse obviously that's a public safety concern but it would land on their fences and all of their landscaping and God forbid someone was back there so um we didn't want to do anything we certainly weren't going to be able to uh rebuild it where it is it sits on the property line itself uh so that wasn't going to work um so knowing that it's it's a possible uh possible Hazard um we have an antique car stored in there right now uh we plan on moving it out of there very soon uh as soon as we know after tonight and and working with our architect what we're able to do uh we plan on raising it immediately um as it can't be fixed so the uh the new proposal um as the town requires a garage um and we can't replace it in its present location due to the setback requirements um we're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place if we move it if we rebuild a garage too close to the house or over to the side then uh if we move it to the opposite side to try and conform with the setback then that would increase the impervious coverage which would create more problems for us down the road uh I'm not sure how that would work so some of this sampling that uh the architect did with the placement of the garage uh depending on where it was it would be very close to the house and depending on the size of the car we might have a turning radius issue um I'm not sure that would work very well um uh so the proposal is for uh to replace the garage with a new structure which is instead of a two-car garage a one and a half car um which would allow some uh storage space in the garage uh the house is very small to begin with uh anyone who resided there would if it was just a single car garage with no room for any storage for lawn equipment gardening equipment or or patio furniture Etc um they would ultimately put up a shed that's what I would do so to avoid having a shed put up we wanted to build a car and a half and then they have the storage they need and at least you have some yard because that would eat up the the small backyard um so that would require us the that's where the accessory structure uh request comes in uh it's the HFA for that is 5% uh the proposal is 7.6 uh with the uh resulting in an addition of 2.6% the rear yard setback uh required allow is 5 ft currently the garage is 3T from the back property line uh so I we don't feel it would impact the neighbors because it's already been there for almost a hundred years uh so by moving it over 2 feet um uh the sidey yard setback by moving it over uh keeps our impervious coverage pretty much where it is now um so we are requesting that variance of 3 ft uh and basically on the elevations the garage is going to look just about like what it looks now it's going to have one door instead of two um it's basically just replacing that uh so if uh if the board is so inclined that's what we plan to do hopefully we keep it in the family and like I said we're hoping for the sixth generation to live there soon okay does anybody have any questions for this witness hand I got one or two I'll um the garage what is the length and width of it now do you know uh it's on uh I don't know if it's on the plan it might be on the survey 18.5 is going to be 18 but it's bold versus I'm not just not clear it says twocc car frame garage and I think that's the 18.5 foot width shown and the new did you say the new one's smaller or bigger I believe that the new one is slightly smaller uh this is a two-car garage uh the red the red markings are the old one oh there you go on the plan yeah uh for the garage red is new because it's a two foot offset right yeah that's and three foot offset so I think the original is 18 and a half and the new one's 18 yes um and as you can see it's right on the a little longer it's going to be 21 a little bit longer longer which 21 long bring it closer to the house um but it's only a car and a half as opposed to a two uh I guess the existing one by today's standards would be considered a car and a half I don't think anyone would build one that small but that's what it's been all these years basically due to the size of the the width of the lot and the length of the lot you're really constrained and that's basically all you can do to get a car in there there's really very little we can do as I said if we if we move it too far in any direction or try to move it to the other side of the lot then the driveway which goes all the way up the side of the house to the garage would have to be increased which almost makes your entire backyard that's full and as you stated your hardship is really the area you only have 5,000 square F feet yes very and 9,700 9,375 foot required yes so we're we're trying our best to improve it uh you know adapting to Modern standards if we can um and the front you're just squaring off yeah the rear we just square off where the kitchen is it's a just a 5x 12 and then the area over the front porch would be the new bathroom on the second floor uh without having to increase any more footprint anywhere else and go up um anybody else have any other questions or comments Please Mr Cooney um just to clarify something on the survey that was prepared by Keller Incorporated um they reference block 1301 lot 1301 but that's really depicting your lot of 1301 lot 6 not lot 1301 is that correct where it says title and topographic survey and then you come down somewhere in there it says tax lot block 1301 tax lot 1301 block 1301 but this is really your property which is 1301 lot 6 correct yes it's lot six so we'll make that correction okay thank you I didn't I didn't notice that in your determinations you're very familiar with the neighborhood because of what your family is owned and there we've all grown up there you would in your opinion um if the board were to approve this application um the benefit from the deviations that you're requesting would substantially outweigh any detriment is that correct absolutely I and and your determination in regard to the habitable floor area ratio that this is an appropriate site and um and can be accommodated by what you're recommending yes I believe that as well thank you I have nothing further Mr chairman thank you does anyone in the public have any questions for this witness please come forward a question Tony Celli I live at 36 Filmore I'm the house behind partially behind Okay and um second V I'm sorry could you say your name again and spell it for us please sure Tony t o n y last name is Celli c r i t l I'm at 36 Filmore okay thank you thanks um my my only question would be uh because there's a drainage easement through the back lots of Filmore and um between the two properties heavy rains there's a lot of water that accumulates and so I'm just curious with the new and it's mostly with the garage and in the back if that's moved or you know replaced which is great um is any work or what's going to is Will anything be done to alleviate and maybe any of the drainage concerns or do something different well I can tell you that the the back there already slopes toward our house um where that Big Pine Tree is by your rear fence there okay um and then behind the garage we've never had any issues there that I'm aware of uh and if we rebuild the garage it'll be exactly the way it is now do you have water issues as a result of that property because the garage is almost at the same yeah so and then even within the empty lot so and with bad rains we'll get water up and it's not deep into our yard but it's within you know a handful of feet of the hedges in the back and also in the back of the empty lot and so the way it is now it's fine my concern is you know stirring stuff up and there are the couple of trees if you had to take out the trees anything you know do that changed the drainage you know of the water so let me just chime in that the town will require a drainage analysis and he cannot and the construction on any lot cannot increase water on any adjacent Lots okay so he'll have to proove that to engineering okay and then engineering will you know um make sure that that's done correctly okay of course you have any concerns please contact them too okay and we go through Miss Hollis so on a historical note you neighbor's house which is behind the empty lot that used to be a duck pond we used to play oh really before they developed it so if you have water issues you're guessing they were there before yeah well and there there is a easement on the on our side of the property for drainage so I'm assuming there was always something that was probably put in I'm guessing when they developed it I was I climbed through through all of the houses when they were framing them yeah uh that was a duck pond and I know they dug all the way up the street so that's probably what there's like likely a sewer line there in these minutes to allow the utility company to get there in case there's a problem yeah so they maintain anytime it goes through property they'll maintain needman which gives them rights so you can't plant trees there you can't put stuff there and they can go bulldoze as they need sure no got it that was it I mean looking forward to it if there is any any concerns I'm sure the architect will pick up on it and we'll address it it's going to be for the garage it's going to be new construction if if the town requires us to to put some sort of stone or drainage in then that's what we're going to have to do okay think go be I appreciate it thank you thank you anybody else okay would anybody like to make a statement or motion or I want to uh make a quick statement first of all I want to thank Mrs Cooney for her patience tonight thank you for visiting our meeting tonight I I wish we had known you were in the audience and uh I don't know if you could have done something sooner for you but uh we appreciate the five generations of coonies and probably going forward as well I went to the property yes the garage is in grave disrepair and uh I had a question about the lot on the side but you clarified that you own that lot too so that kind of opens up a little bit and uh the house does need repair the the addition the improvements that you have asked for are I think probably much needed so uh I think um I support the application thank you does that mean you just made a motion I make a motion I'll second all right Miss Kaa what's you yes Mr Sherman seconds Mr Kenya yes Mr sha yes M Mirage yes chairman be yes application approved congratulations thank you very much well for everything that's really uh we're going to get started right away I'm going to get my thunder my 64 Thunderbird out of the garage there you go it's coming out on Fourth of July is it uh you know what we're not going to be here we're going to be in visiting my son in North Carolina on the 4th of July it was last year that's my brother you're off a generation there yeah and it needs some work it need it'll be there next year I promise very much good night thank you good night all right the final block 3202 lot 1462 E Street application number 2024 - 21-v Priyanka and Karan sha applicant seeks approval converting the attic to 4 463 Square ft of living space in violation of the following section 17087 bb4 habitable floor area 3,000 ft allowed 3,179 ft proposed 179 ft variance requested 17087 cc4 habitable floor ratio 30% allow .79 baring requested good evening how you doing good how are you all right let's get you SW would you be kind enough to say your name and spell it please certainly William genti g n t i l e Mr gentiy do you um swear or affirm that any statements and any testimony you give to the board today will be true accurate and complete I do are you are you giving testimony as an expert I given expert at architect okay would you state your credentials please uh yes I'm a licensed architect of New Jersey since 19 97 I've done several uh multiple homes throughout the state I've been several meetings in regards to uh variances and stuff of that sort in this in this town up and down this the Northeast Coast here and your credentials as an architect are in good standing they are in good standings and your education if you can just uh the University of New Mexico I think that's the first um I was here one time before so okay so that's a second all right um does anyone on the board have any question objections regarding this witness there be no objections or Witnesses except there's expert architecture thank you the floor is yours all right I'm not sure if it's necessary to actually show you the plans and everything because this house is just got his permit it's a two-story home with a an area in the Attic that is tall enough to be used as considered habitable States and so we went for a permit for just the first and second floor and with the idea that we'd like to get the additional square footage into the house and so we're adding two bedrooms and one bathroom that run down the center just below the ridge windows out to the front window out to the back there's absolutely no change to the elevation excuse me there is a slight change we raised the ceiling over the staircase to get to the get to the second floor uh or excuse me to the attic it was a minor difference in Pitch but otherwise there's very little if no you could tell there was an attic space up there at all so there would be no change or impact to the house and to the the area around it but I can use the map if you want me to I mean all right so you're saying you're just opening up one little piece of the roof to get clearance for the staircase otherwise the roof is staying exactly as it is right now exactly there no extension or anything else exactly does anybody have any questions I Mr chair you're up um Mr GTI the the photographs that accompan the application I think there's five of them those act and dated May 8th well they they're marked receiv received dated um May 8 2024 do you know who took those photographs I did all right and they accurately depict what's the images that are set there that's what the existing house was before we got our permit all right and the survey that accompanied the application it didn't indicate who prepared the survey that section of the survey wasn't in my the copies that I got it didn't tell me who the surveyor was do you know who it was I tell truth I don't remember um but however the we supplied the the the uh original survey with the stamp on it all right and that survey even though we don't know who prepared it accurately depicts the conditions on the site yes um in terms of the floor area ratio are you able to opine that the property can accommodate it and it's appropriate for it yes and it's consistent the property when you build the when everything gets built out and completed will be consistent with what's in the neighborhood yes and the if approved those those that approval and the improvements will not have a substantial detrimental impact on on absolutely not thank you thank you very much so I guess my only concern is that we we got you got to permit to redo the whole roof and now we're coming back to fill in the middle and if we came originally and tried to meet meet the habital floor area we might have to cut that a little short how do we work around that a little bit um right because you have a lot that's too big oh too big it's oversized right um and then when now we're over on the habital floor area ratio on the H floor area um can you talk to that a little bit well I believe that the original it was list you follow I'm saying in the sorry you follow what I'm saying like I believe so I believe so well the thing is we were stuck with the the fact that the lot is 10,000 square ft 18% was only going to give us something about give us 3,000 square foot house with the garage with the attic space it was actually pushing us over that limit right however previously we were allowed to go actually up to or at least we couldn't ex we couldn't go past 3,2 20 but we because we're 10,000 ft lot the maximum we could go was 1800 was uh 3,000 square F feet and so we wanted to do the client really wanted to have the two bedrooms upstairs I offered him the choice of putting one bedroom upstairs uh in order to just meet the 3,000 meet the 3,000 square ft he was trying to push for the segment for family reasons and the fact that he's got he's has an extended family they come to visit is that they need the space and that the attic is just sitting there not being used it has you know has some mechanical system in there and that's the extent of it so it was going to make no difference to the exterior it was still going to satisfy his needs for the number of bedrooms and bathrooms he needs uh so we wanted to go for the full depth to uh you know and again it's down the center it's rather a Nar narrow space but it does get give him two bedrooms and a bath of anybody else have any comments or questions please you know you're standing you don't have to sorry and it won't help you um part of the Dilemma that we have or the the challenge that we have is that we need to demonstrate a hardship or under either the C1 or C2 under the municipal land use law the second one being a flexible variant um and we're on the edge on that in order to get you home if I'm saying that correctly Mr I would think so yes I would think so so in other words even though you presented very well and you've explained what you're trying to do and what what the Dynamics are we in order for the board to legally and lawfully approve the application we need to meet those criteria for the statute and I'm not sure we're there yet because the lot is large so it's not like you got exceptional sh sh narrowness or shallowness that creates a hardship again this is not an argument I just try to explain right go ahead well I mean we actually wanted a larger house we stuck to the exact footprint of what's there and so what that gave us was smaller bedrooms smaller interior spaces and it left us with not feeling we could double up on children we couldn't double up on uses so again we were looking for a location where we might be able to to add additional square foot or bedroom sport so not so much the square foot it's the bedroom from the bathroom that we needed um so are you are you saying that the physical features uniquely affect this property or that there's some extraordinary or exceptional situation that affects the property that creates this issue well I'm I'm trying to open the door yes I understand what you say I just wasn't presented with that since there was no um it was discussed with with zoning that we couldn't go over because we want that this was the intent of the house uh it was always always the plan and we didn't want to we couldn't expand out any further than we did we're keeping the footprint um I don't know I guess i' never thought understood that this would be uh a question of what whether this would value you know a valuable reason why we want that's what US lawyers do with all the laws that we pass to make things more difficult so we're elected officials of being a former elected uh but are you saying that if it was [Music] approved a deviation from this zoning ordinance the benefit from the deviation was substantially outweigh the detriment I'm sorry I didn't hear that are you saying that if this was approved the benefit of the deviation of the approval would substantially outweigh any detriment that it would impose I think so the client is not getting I mean he can't fill his house the way he needs to with the the requirements of living conditions so you're not saying you think so you're saying that's true that's true I'm doing the best I can Mr chairman if I could Mr chairman one of the challenges that's presented to the board if they approve something and they don't we don't cross the teas and do the eyes arguably it sets a precedent for someone else to come in and do something that would be difficult I don't so that's what the board's struggling with at least in my observation okay anybody else have any thoughts or comments if I could Mr chair Mr Scott is there any way that you can refashion this so that it it comes in under without causing a major problem um well it just cut up the 176 square feet if that's what it comes down to it's um again it's only 10t wide too if we if that's what we have to do that's what we have to do but again if the client was somehow we need somehow it would be reasonable to try and make it work better if I can say it that way rather than putting the board in a position where they need to deny something do you need time to talk to your client and come back no I would well tell you the truth it won't matter to because you're you're telling me this is what our limit is and we need to meet it and he has agreed to that actually I want to be clear I'm telling you what an applicant whether it's you or anybody your client or anybody else needs to present to his zoning Board of adjustment in order to qualify to get an approval of a variance there are certain laws that need to be complied with again I'm not being argumentative I'm just trying to to explain so that I think the sense that you're getting unless and I know that others haven't spoken the sense I'm getting is it's not like you have an undersized lie sure and it's not like you have an irregular lie so that in order to show a hardship we got to find one and so far one doesn't really present itself which goes back to not what your clients are trying to accomplish but what this board is bound by in terms of the law all right and that if it Devi if the board were to deviate from that it could create problems now you don't have anybody opposing the applic as far as I can determine um but it might be in your client's best interest to figure out a way to get it into compliance is that a fair statement Mr I think that's a fair I think that's a fair statement um I don't know if the you have habital floor area and hital floor area ratio I don't know if you can get the you know one under maybe that would help a little bit um maybe the habital floor area ratio might fall under quicker I I'm not doing any calculations off hand but um if one of them could fall under the requirement that would probably a lot I don't know if I understand what you're saying they're probably pretty well tied together they're tied together exactly it's not going to make a difference um because if we again if we did that we again it's you're right what the 3,000 foot is that we could have done that to begin with and not even be here yeah that's a correct statement the problem is the board's presented with something which is difficult if I can say no I understand your position and they're trying and and I believe what the board's trying to do is find you a way to the promised land and um I do have a way and that's I guess that's what will uh we'll make that change so we we fall within the guideline right so that we would need to have the applicant confirm what the applicant's going to do to get it to come into compliance somewhere down there in tane they must have taught you something about this right welcome to New Jersey except New Mexico not New Orleans um so do I guess you want to adjourn talk to your client and come back next time and see if we can or do you want to try to come up with something for the next few minutes or um well it doesn't I mean I the um I think the only solution is to based on the fact that I don't seriously have some uh detriment or hardship uh that it just gets cut back so that it's exactly 3,000 square ft but I would I would suggest to you that it would be helpful if we saw a plan that did that because if we're trying but would it be necessary if I brought it down to 3,000 ft there's no variance that I need I need to know the board would be better served if the explanation of how you going to get the 3,000 square fet were discussed are you changing things to the I know you're going to change things but the board would need to know what you're changing in order to be reasonably act on that you follow what I'm saying well yes I understand we have to close the case on it basically is that is that because one of the things that I have to do is prepare a resolution that actually delineates what's going on with some specificity um it might be if you get down under 3,000 square fet and and or at 3,000 square fet and you clear the floor area ratio you might not need to come back I mean am I wrong I I think that sounds correct was that's that's the part I'm I'm trying to get grasp of because if I do get it down then there there really isn't you don't need a you don't need the variance for the FL area you don't so don't need the VAR right so we're suggest I'm suggesting I won't speak on behalf of the board that if you can get there rather than getting a decision this evening that might be difficult for you that you Endeavor to try that I'll Endeavor to try because this board in order if this board votes this evening it's going to vote no I'm not saying that but it looks that yeah it looks like the road that we're on unless some and if someone disagrees with me please no that's what that's where I'm I'm stuck on how to as you said how to bring you home and only thing I was going to say is that you can't then come back unless you substantially change if you wanted to so that's why I think if you took the time to see if there's between now and the next meeting if there is a legitimate reason for the variance then you could come back the next time if not I mean I I assume then you could just withdraw and just go to the building department Mr Sherman's Point's well taken if a board makes the decision and it's an adverse decision you just can't come back with a same very substantially same plan you would have to have another plan right because that's what the law provides so what Mr Sherman is saying is it might be better to carry this matter and see what you come back with am I correct Mr Sherman yes okay I and I'm going to tell you in my experience in four and a half Decades of practicing this is very rare for a board to take this kind of effort to make sure that things go more reasonably I've been before boards where they just make the decision and you try and explain that to your clients exactly well thank you Mr JS for offering that Clarity on our behalf because we were all mute for because of that uh um confusion in our mind as well because even though it's not much but what is the hardship if as I think Mr Jus has offered pretty solid suggestions uh that could help I'm willing to come back to the board and would have to go through the whole process or what no just get this matter would be carried without any further notice and without any further publication it just carries on to the next year you just have to make sure that Miss Hollis has updated plans 10 days in advance is it Miss Hollis typically 10 days do the mailing all over again and all that as well no no to July 23rd July 23 right sorry I accept thank you very much thank thank you for coming yes good night um I think that's it it adjourned don't