to order once it goes live and then we'll introduce Chief Henry after roll call there we go it's 603 I'm going to welcome everybody to the third meeting of the town of lox sahashi Groves agrotourism committee and the first thing on the agenda is to take our roll call Kathy uh Joseph Chamas Simon Fernandez pres Liza hullman Martin hullman and Darren swing here okay we have a COR we have um two presentations tonight one of them both of them are followup to the last meeting the first one is Chief Henry and he has two presentations to go over with us one is um AGR tourism from the fire rescue standpoint um and also food trucks because fire rescue is who you could either send your food truck to or um they can actually come out to your property and let you know if they're operating within the rules and the second presentation is going to be the walk through all of our relevant ordinances and codes and the Florida Statutes and I have our planner Jim Flashman here because good or bad for him he wrote a lot of this code so maybe he can rewrite it tonight Henry are you ready where's my we have to turn this mic on it should be okay okay thank you show screen okay so on behalf of Chief Dreer this is a presentation put together I'm going to run through real quick I'm going to cover uh the purpose the presentation go over some definitions which I'm sure you're aware of classification and the fire safety requirements okay do you have the PowerPoint up yes I'm getting it up it's the AGR turism first right yes ma'am pointed to me because I can't see from here is that it we just downloaded them you want these does that one say because I can't see no that's the annual report not the fire rescue Chief we're having a terrible luck with your presentation it's a power I can tell you I saw it I saw the first oh no I saw both of them saw the first wagon uhhuh we're GNA do it this way sorry Chief worri you're ready to roll okay see trying to advance you know what Chief it's not going to work on there oh you your clicker is not working you do like high school next slide please I've done that before scroll down well working on that just go the next slide is actually the definition AG tourism activity which means any agricultural related activity consisted with a Bonafide Farm livestock operation or ranch or a working force which allows members of the general public for recreational entertainment and educational purposes to view or enjoy activities including farming ranching historical cultural Civic ceremonial training an exhibition or harvest your own activities and attractions an agrotourism activity does not include the construction of newer additional structures or facilities intended primary arily to House Shelter transport or otherwise accommodate members of the general public an activity agorism activity regardless of whether the participant paid to participate in the activity There You Go Chief okay now a couple definitions accordance to the uh fortifi prevention code the agricultural pole barn means a residential Farm building in which 70% or more of the perimeter walls uh are open permanently open and allow free Ingress and egress it's a very common structure find on found on agricultural properties here in Florida uh this structure is exempt from the Florida fire prevention code we have no Authority within this facility the second is the non-residential Farm building which means any temporary or permanent building or support structure that is classified as non-residential Farm building on a farm or that is used primarily for agricultural purposes is located on land that is integral part of the farm operation or is classified as agricultural land and is not intended to be used as a residential dwelling the term may include but it's not limited to a barn Greenhouse shade house Farm office storage building or poultry house a non-residential Farm building in which the occupany is limited to by the property owner to no more than 35 persons is exempt from the fora fire prevention clude including all national codes and life safety codes can I ask a question relative to this yes ma'am okay so if you have um a non-residential Farm building on your property and it's open to the public as long as you never have more than 35 people you don't need to meet any regulations it's exemp from the glor okay okay thank you we ask questions at the end or at the beginning uh anytime okay so in the case of you said 35 and the case of AG tourism where you have weddings it's very hard to find a 35 people that's not was that's not for this building as I go on you'll see there is for that as well okay um Okay so thank you not withstanding any other Provisions except for agricultural po bar structure and a farm defined in state statutes uh there's three classifications there's a residential Farm building that is used by the owner 12 or fewer times per year for agrotourism activity with up to 100 persons occupying the structure at one time a structure classified as subject to an annual inspection for classification by the fire Marshall's office this class is not subject to the for fire prevention code but is subject to the rules adopted by the fire Marshall's office a class two non-residential Farm building used by the owner of for AGR tourism activity with up to 300 persons occupying the structure at one time a structure this class is subject to annual inspection for classification by the local Authority this class is not subject to for R vention code but is subject to rules adopted by the State Fire Marshall for uh Su chapter 633 no idea good distance away You're jinxing it if this works class the class three structure facility is used primarily for housing Sheltering otherwise ACC commoning members of the general public a structure facility in this class is subject to annual inspections with classification by the ahj this class is subject to the quori prevention F and I'll explain more as I go here so here we're talking that yeah just turn it off yeah that's turn than the CL one these are the restrictions that [Music] the next the use of open foration going to leave that to our committee to decide you can you can leave us proba you want to go over questions on this one before you do food trucks do you want to do questions on this one before food trucks nextus indors I think it's you for safety perspective always any type of open burning then if you have any questions so the full is exemp completely so no no you don't you said it had to be more than 12 events a yes yes I can class one you want a class one last one one it's uh it's used by the owner well fewer times here no need one yesing it right here subject theid one yeah that's not that's that's a non-residential f that's it's not a bu so it's so where's the bull in there okay so it's not in there okay got I took some pictures open right% I got a question we approach any fire station to do that no you want to contact our office we'll send some El I'll give you email address do you mind if we put this on our website we go make copy seven you can make that's all the instructions okay wonderful thank you note that Mrs is Mrs hman is arriv oh okay perfect I don't know which thing it is but here's food [Music] trucks big issue I have different one we want you to have TR you will also go out to the site to inspect the food truck right okay okay brought Tru actually fire that's Ang the next live out here at third in Wyoming and we are on video right now of this lunch truck this food truck that exploded into flames I'm talking to Witnesses who said that about 5:30 today in feltonville this they heard a loud boom and they saw a woman who was badly burned sitting outside the truck there go well there's nothing there propane tank preliminarily they're saying it was a propane tank that exploded inside this truck one woman badly burned to 100% of her body second to third degree burns and at least two others if not up to five people occurred in this incident out here in Fonville on third in Wyoming the tank that exploded tank get recertified 12 oh my [Music] gosh other this was all back Beach 2014 that was AUST 28 he expected this a right before Christmas that wow wow oh wow prod what is with this is when I to right off SM SA St [Music] bard this here this will have a should be on L fire this beautiful see that okay I've never seen ni SCH that's good to know dat on that that should have beened gas compy in not check number yeah all the question for you is it the responsibility of whoever yes this is what you just looked in portable question this is something I go detail this is what we do this is the he come us first T INSP second t next all that stuff is in here then they operating guidelines I'm going to leave okay well I think that you all I think we need to our mind somebody's doing a wedding and is bringing their Peter in from M Maples has the same fer or would they have to reinspect for an event here or is that a state operating un have have did you say it's 110 did you say it's $110 okay so basically any food truck that's operating here in town should be able to whip out that Boulder okay well that means that if they if they show up on anybody's property they need to send them to you okay so anybody that's in Agri tourism that's or anybody otherwise that's hosting a food truck and call fire rescue and find out yeah yeah yeah if you send a food truck name to this list right here we will okay we will verify whether they've had ins okay we're gonna put on that online yeah okay okay it's all the same real real quick on that same question if you have a food truck from West Palm Beach on your property then it still has to have the Palm Beach County inspection even if it has a West Palm Beach inspection okay they' had an inspection within a year January if they had an inspection within a year it's still good yes so they might not have a six bar fer but they might have they might have that's whyem we cannot I see specialist from the supression oh this is the training list youim actually in the I have more in they won't get fooled again don't worry we won't get fooled again this is some the sign gas detectors F CHS yeah damage back some of the SC you've seen on midd top barue question going back to the inspection I supect cont of rather busy and um I don't suspect that that interaction possibly with truck all the time wonder what was the liability perhaps h one more question do barbecue truck fall under this anybody I have possible nice bot operation you're going to find this jty get another the video I said try and get this exhaust make sure they're not see wow Chris is the 10 foot rule or the distance rule is that state law or is that Palm Beach County gas station yeah I'm going to email it to you as soon as I get back in my other seat but this is good yeah nice thank you chief I I don't know I thought part of the it back to what we've been discussing is um about why you were invited is access Neighbors how much space do you need what are the general rules of thumb in terms of what fire rescue or emergency vehicles need to get into a property and once they're on the property trees hanging down you get in you have t Chief Mar the last meeting part of the was how do you deal with substantial outside and part of the part of the conversation was the fire so let's say you're in a farm and car is parking so how is your truck SK so that's that's one of the reasons that we thought you were coming for obvious here is there is there a particular unit of measurement [Music] to what our size of speed um between 16 to 20 feet really more like 18 yeah [Music] M yeah we don't allow parking on the street now sometimes visitors don't realize that and they do it um but that'll be just part of like the training process to get people off the street but I think that you also have to have clear Lanes of like what 13 or 14 feet 20 okay okay you have a property let's say we have agism and for whatever reason there fire inside you need 20t for your trucks to be able to maneuver cor to be quick to what was a 136 reference 13 feet okay you have any other questions for chief [Music] Henry I I am I am emailing your presentations to the committee of course I'm going to provide one also to the audience um and we are going to put them up online so that they'll be a reference tool also like Chief Henry said we do have the fire rescue rules here it's a giant book our building department has it so we're learning as well we just met less than a month ago to get our copy of it I think it was pretty yes yeah so we do have a lot more information here too probably a little bit deeper dive than we got to tonight but I thought that this was all kind of important based on the different things that go on on the properties particularly yeah yeah yeah oh okay great we'll put the reference to the binder online on our website but we do have a hard copy for old school folks here so oh me too yeah it's very tactile you gave us a lot thank you very much thank you for your time you're welcome do you have cards Chief if that would be great if you could give them to our group okay the next part of tonight's meeting is we um have U Mr fleshman who's going to take us through the different codes but if you want to have some open discussion before we go through the codes it's really up to you all chair how would you like to proceed okay great okay um is this a new draft for you guys this no this is the failed this is the failed draft of the ordinance and um Jim has given it out because he's done some highlights on this ordinance to some of the codes that he's given out am I correct Jim okay it's all it's all to Jim now and our attorney is here for any legal questions in here or what we can or can't change in the code okay I wanted to uh start off by by saying the first the first part of the agenda package that's really pages one through 18 um this is the first meeting that I've attended wasn't aware of how much discussion we've had at the previous meeting so I what I did was I I took a um Board of farmers market Association sort of summary of of AG tourism and and put that and put that in there just as background information which obviously you are all aware think need to go through that at all now one thing I also put put that together so that it could be used as a sort of an informational package for what called bonified agriculture property owners that are interested in getting into act tourism is that they would have a place to start and in addition to that I I kind of beef that up a little bit but I also copies of all of the Florida Statutes references that that are in PES one through the so I'm going to put together like a modified package that that has that plus all of the Flor statutes it gives the new Agri tourism business an opportunity to get pretty good firsthand understanding so essentially let's just give the first 18 Pages the next part of what I did the reason that I put the uh failed ordinance at your seats was by merily to look at page four and that was that's the discussion that I think has been ongoing ever since the the topic came up and that was how do we uh address substantial offsite impacts and the ordinance has a a list of six uh impact categories that that essentially are taken from Bo statutes and I um I through the the towns code um to to see if I could find statutory code references that related to to each of those six basic categories and um I identified those not necessarily uh in terms of whether or not they specifically are related to the AI District or or agriculture but but but there's some specific details um that that might help in the discussion and and I I'm not necessarily promoting any of these but but I think that it's it's a good um it's a good way to start discussions on these General topics and um that the committee can decide on own what whether or not they uh they think it's a it's a good um measure to to use for each of these categories or not or um or at least it could start discussion getting to the point where the committee does come up with some specific [Music] recommendations and starting at um page four7 u under Roman capital letter B at the bottom of the page final offsite impacts the six categories are listed and the the first category in summary is is essentially traffic and parking in Ingress and egress causing substantial interference with traffic on budding roads and vehicles uh entering or exiting the property that utilize turning movements that are hazardous with the design and function of the of the abing roads and also parking on local Road and town maintenance easiness and I did find I did find a few sections in the town Cod that that relate to essentially that basic topic and the first one is that it talks about sight distance Tri if you take a look at so up here you talking about subside imp you were here and I'm here but last time the nowhere and vibration this is one of those that I find confusing you make mention theism out here and then in the bottom you go by section 50 ofc is not part of so this is part of the struggle that I personally have everything we're not very clear and we don't s it what it is Jim do you mind if I answer this please I want to answer this we were directed to bring back all the code sections that are in the code that apply to everyone because what Stephen Hall said is that AGR tourism can get special preference but they can't be treated worse than anybody else so we do have a code for odors we do have a code for noise we do have a code for lighting now if these codes don't work for AGR tourism and we talked about how the sound might not work because of the decibels and we've talked about how odors doesn't apply to agrotourism any different than it applies to the rest of the farming Community then we get to look at this and we get to say we're going to be the same as the rest of the code that's item one or item two this code doesn't work for us we need to make a change and then item three is I don't know that this code could work for anybody in town you really need to look at it overall and that's why on the traffic we're going to look at the traffic overall and that is all from the Stephen hall meeting Jim I'm sorry for interrupting but this is where we left a previous meeting you have one the same should this is a legal document we're simply referencing correct we're not saying that because again Simon I don't think that you're hearing it's referencing to the existing codes it's saying agrotourism is subject to existing codes we have Jim here navigating the existing codes so you can make three choices one same as everybody else in town fine we're not getting any worse treatment two this doesn't work for us we need different treatment because we do a few things that aren't considered in the general code or three don't know how this code can work for anyone you need a townwide blank like in our case we need a townwide traffic impact so I think that was what the direction was by the council to look at where the code needs to change to accommodate agrotourism and also to be a good neighbor like the discussion was at the last meeting correct correct toidentify problem keep simp yeah the only the only reason I put the ordinance uh on your on the table was was that the ordinance identifies what the offsite impact considerations are that's the only reason that that the ordinance is there as as a way of of of navigating through the code uh in terms of potential offside impacts I'm not saying I'm not promoting that code at all I'm just saying those are the impacts that uh that that we need to look at that's all ask one question regarding um the state statute um you reference I think here 570 to 96 can anybody tell us I I found one that is 570 85 it's almost identical but there's a sentence at the end of it like the bir paragraph that significantly different so does anybody know what those 57 supered I would say that that's true because I tried to find 5796 myself and I couldn't I couldn't find it it did say 575 super like is the latest yeah it's um this isn't our best interest but I think it's worth saying it says in the last sentence of that 5785 which I think replac the 5796 it says the subsection does not limit the powers and duties of a local government to address substantial offsite impacts activities for emergency chapter2 I only mention this because Mike Hall Mr Hall yeah that's why I think he was same us to do what we can proactive um to give our inputs for offsite so I don't any but it says substantial word everybody with sence are we working something that's what like so my whole Focus was on that our discussions right here on page 47 that the following sections app PL EV operating with theot perit government sanction activities govern that should be what we like I don't know how we're convey our recomendations but that's what we all agree to then should one loal you know I like the idea the one page summary of your recommendations because they're not looking nobody's looking for any legal document it's just the recommendations and I think you're right with noise Make the recommendation i i a council member said last night 55 is to low because an air conditioner is 52 okay so yeah right right right you could be all day on exactly right it's it's it's like 20 minutes or something yeah so it has to be sustained with the def with with the decibel um so there should be some distance that the desol um is triggered so an air conditioner when you're right up next to it maybe 52 or whatever it is that doesn't matter it matters whether or not that noise is carrying you know off the property at a certain saw that's um I don't know exactly but you could say um 5T um you know on the other side of a fence line and then and then you talk about the setback what what it is is every time you double that footage it reduces by six Deb you go 10t you know it's 104 if you go 20 feet it's 98 you know so that's what that's the general R done but yeah but I'm say you could be right on the tree line and that's what you're going to get so I agree with you and I don't know if you have any suggestion what don't we just take traffic come up with the solution to traffic why don't we take you know just like the fire marshall was here he clarify this let's do that let's what's the next thing the decimal then let's come up with recommendations and uh I think we just we just avoided that said ex I I didn't understand that in the um this this the city C outo events government s like says they give you the permission to do it or they do both of those I got appr could say without I'd agree with that one I would agree with that yeah there is but it depends what kind of special event you are because you're either in a b or c remember section 80 it's gets complicated so but yeah for example like a $100 yeah yeah a simple simple one pager that's the say that there's a bunch of cars they don't have it so what's theed how we get this moving don't come solution ex per and then also reference one yeah that's excellent that's I think exactly what we wish to do and that's what Jim has highlighted for you in our existing code I personally think you should go back to your comment with regard to the decibels of normal um farm equipment and you know um come up with some generic wording yeah traffic yeah I get it yeah traff the fire department no I'm listen I'm in your team I'm trying to clarify so we can put on the paper and be done interest to see I bigger than a so I'm going to put myself as an example okay I'm I have enough parking inside my property but let's say that somebody comes and Parks right across the highway ticket somebody calls it in not according to that the what the fire department he talking about on your he did two things and I think that's we need toy wide and on your property wide dep we're talking about so now now I have or you have a uh a sunflower M and people that might just go by and see it start parking on the street so what we get there so what law does it apply the existing laws that are already in the books to call PBSO and deal with us yes and be done yes yes we have a we have a sens on your property correct they're not on your property they're on your say this our code says that a drive aisle if it's if it's one way should be 12 feet if it's two-way 24 feet well well that's that's what I would call a driveway that that goes from the Main Street into your vent code reference is for examp talking about a food line going into church or people driving into an event I'm talking about people that decide if they don't want to deal with inter not traffic and they Park well well we have something in the code that says that that you shall not park on the street probably understand children you have a lot who who was in violation and he parked way if you recall two three years ago it was somebody that had a a drum ceremony or something like that and it was an ungodly amount of cars on the south okay no there's no distance it3 and you don't own that's true you have you have I'm getting your section 95 because parking loing is section 95 we should have end of the day so much subjective yeah I was just about to say the same thing yeah so I don't know that want to put further restrictions I we're putting more restriction on our situation by saying pass it's one you read again a line A's talking about so parking is covered in section 95 of our code and essentially that's where I think Jim is reading to you those are our standard definitions that applies to everybody um of course in addition to that parking we also say that temporary events and I think and and I think that this would be true for agrotourism activities that you may have um all parking spaces on an unpaved surface and that you may use temporary barriers guides signs and other markings um and that they need to be placed around your parking area that's the only additive language that we have on top of um you know our existing code language for parking and I think that's what you I know that's what you do at your place where you're parking and I think Jose if you do that there's also something about offsite parking Jim don't we have something on offsite parking I mean I just want to be clear that you guys are happy to follow some easily written rules that we already have that's what we're trying to do yeah yeah yeah okay so we can I said was that we Tri it fantastic you know what I'm saying you're putting for we agree that the laws that exist right now on are okay only only thing that we said discuss it just emergency I don't know if that was going to be our a recommendation I I think okay there there's actually two sections in the code that could relate to this one is called Drive ises which is the 24 feet and then there's another section that's called Ingress egress driveway which may be more more appropriate and and that's 22 feet so that's going of accompany they're not change their that's that's Ingress egress driveways the uh minimum is 22 feet that one well I wanted to see if if you were interested in this concept called site distance triangles it it's on page 18 the agenda P well well it's it it's uh it's it's a safety uh item so that uh car cars essentially exiting the the property uh don't pull out into ongom on traffic so they got a sight distance that they can see see down the street to make sure that they don't F out now that in my mind is a potential off-site impact can be prevented right but by implementing the the site distance sprin but that's only in the context of like Signs right well signs or trees yeah trees for sure and and sun or vegetation yeah that's right yeah yeah from what I understand um you can still have some vegetation but but it shouldn't be higher than three feet yeah yeah yeah that is I I me I think uh whatever works I think there should be some sort of a safety mechanism at those intersections to to help prevent um accidents by passing traff we have go in and say let's hold them to no no no we're not we're not I'm just saying he's not aggressive saying I'm just saying look at it and I just we have 40 please you're not we have right now 40 courtesy notices out there for people to clear their site triangle we go through the town you know I mean not regularly you know not overbearingly but several times a year we try to get people to get their site triangle cleaned up no you're right about that asked I do know how it does then I said I go down there abely well I think it's like the visitor that doesn't follow your parking rules we're not we can't really you can't really enforce that yeah well children that yes for example Ranch like 600t away from okay there's another location that has aned right next to the so I don't think that's a very fair thing to bring into this conversation because there are a number of access management issues on okachi that are not in the scope of this committee's work but I do think that if you are an owner of property you should make sure that you have a clear site triangle for the safety of your visitors no no you're not wrong about the you're not wrong about the access management you're not well well this is just saying that uh within within 10 feet on either side of the driveway don't don't have any signs in there keep now keep the Landscaping down to three feet and don't put any other structures up there which which obscure your your ability to see pass and that's all it says okay so you're good with that one okay we're going to reference to existing code everybody else does the same thing okay Jim okay the only other thing on on the on the traffic is that uh uh section 100- 045 friend six says that's not in there that's one of the exer things that he's gonna send out he's got this arking on local roadways is prohibit yeah black and white no it's not your responsibility to manage now it'd be nice if you put on your websites or invitations no parking on the street that'd be great that's all I can do I would I would add that we're sending all of this out after this meeting yeah um that's all I could find it related to the specifically detracting issues that I felt uh were were related to to EG noise noise um the noise we have to get some kind of a measurement on the noise suest put some references to corre wrong but I think firing ranges are the only state requirement is like an acre and uh we want talk about 150 Deb not not letting projectiles property so I don't know I know that I know somebody in the a not gr that has to deal with that well let me ask you this if you were in the center of your 5 acre property and there was 150 DB going on if we use that Ru of thumb thing to get to the property line okay how how many feet I'm not good with this stuff but how many feet is it from the center of your 5 acre property I'm just trying to average something I I don't know but that's why I'm trying to come up with something reasonable right what distance you have to beerty as long as you control your projectile that's why I'm saying like you got to take a wor scenar well the truth of the matter is is that you know um there are a lot and our attorney would really be the one to talk about the noise ordinance really because I think deible oriented noise ordinances are sometimes very difficult to enforce what what use for horses and fireworks I don't know I don't know the answer to that that's a good one though I like that one but I mean you know the noise ordinances that exist around the state um and probably the country too like you know they they have to be pretty specific so so decb um you know if you just say it you know it can't be too loud to bother you know that person next door that's that's pretty vague and could be considered to be unconstitutionally vague what what know level for example the golf what was the uh knowledge level that's the where the golf oh um no we haven't gotten that fully yet so anyways it doesn't matter because we're exempt without Perman and we she just suggested that we we list some of those things to put it in the context I've always felt that uh you any ordinance that is related to decibels is is very hard to enforce and and you're going to have to go out there exactly when the event is going on what do you feel about just having hours of operation 10 o' or 11 o' I don't no noise after that it's safer to do that it is but but Jim I I think that we should make the recommendation for the whole town in terms of hours of operation they may be different hours for different kinds of activities um you know like so PE you know something like that maybe we could do it that way Big Dog Ranch got approved there was a a real big issue about noises and and yeah that's right and they had to hire a uh a specialist firm to bring all of yeah they did out at the borders and and pay these Consultants orent rates to measure the zil so I I think use particularly those we should stay away from if we can set the hours operation that's I'll send it every day but weend events 11 great that's why I'm saying if we change the noise ordinance to just the hours of operation we'll use the longer special event hours for Agra business is that what you're recommending it's your recommendation yeah yeah and for the record I wasn't suggesting Deb she just said I think put that in there no depl so that people understand right that that there's a lot of things happening out there that are Extremely Loud that was your point it was yeah that's all I mean that's not that's not even necessarily part what we're recommending like statute it's just hey my neigh all right so we go to the next one is what outdoor light wait a minute yeah the outdoor lighting is an issue it's an issue all through town yeah I think we should have the same thing time made a good point last time anothere on lady my position is that most of the people in the advm use this Prov we don't use the low voltage because of the pictures and what have you okay but there's a difference between and it's based on definitions a difference between outdoor lighting and security I don't think that others of operation should affect security outdoor lighting for in events cor I think we have they have to come midn maybe it well I think I think that if we if we keep the grade of the lighting that'll be lighting if we keep the visal lighting it should be should be should be don't they we do we have it's based well and it's 11 o'clock for special events I think isn't it Jim no no no it's for special events it's till midnight on Friday and Saturday yeah we don't have time after that right now so you're right let's add that yeah are we completely are we suggesting completely exemp hour is [Music] just lighting I actually think we should do that for all of our Liv okay yeah I think we need to change that town wide on as much as we can that it's inward to the property well you know there's a whole different issue the lighting and the security lighting because there's a lot of different issues with it but relative to the events do you feel like we've got you know to the agrotourism you think we got it and I do think we should say facing inward I like thatt as a courtesy that's nice I think that the wording we would have to use is to the extent possible something like that to the extent possible practicable okay whatever you like you're the attorney practicable yeah anything but substantial Jim you're killing it you're killing it one hour Beyond and then so what our recomendations exemp exempt from any lighting those hours of operation and then and then plus two hours and then okay I just wanted to bring up something Jim um don't forget they have the parking lot outdoor lighting standards we didn't actually talk about that because that's already in our code too so I think you might want to talk a little bit about lighting more Jen out lighting come up in relation to shopping cers parking and we always have always have condition say like the lighting has to be directed down and and the with the shield on the on the outside and turned off so let me answer a question that I'm thinking AG go Garcia has AER they have lighting whatever with the time of operation we yeah because because it's it's it's the same issue as the order we're talking about which means somebody has to be able to go to the property line a piece of equipments measures how many are going over problem proced no no problem being cooking convention with the oh I just got them got it that's be everybody feel stupid huh to regulate the people property especially in agult spr out compl I would I mean the only and and once again wasn't a bombfire smoke the order of the smoke but if you have a BM fire anybody and it's one of those cases like the fireworks you can't have fireworks but you can your ar50 all night long which is even louder no fig and then vition another one that weed that one is that falls under that would be in the event hour that vibration um I want to talk about signs Jim you ready for signs because our signs right now you know in the AR District are limited to six feet in size and agricultural properties are exempt for signs on their property however if you wanted to have off-site signs we need to talk about that and also if you wanted to have event signs we need to talk about that so I'm going to turn it over to Jim so that we can talk about what you think is the appropriate you know reference to existing code or come up with new code princi signs so that means that you can have sign but that's just an event and then they have to come down and if they're placed in the right way the town Picks Them Up trashes them for an event so do you want to follow event rules well see that's why I'm saying I don't think it's necessarily an event I think then you're in offsite signage but I'm going to defer to jam control also stat says any sign as so on their property they can have whatever sign they want no that's correct whatever you want on your property my question is like what Darren said if we were going to have a sign for 12 weeks Farmers Market this way that's directional Jim right but on the other hand yeah yeah that's the other thing we got back and we have a signed get a part of elction which um is understanding you could have a direction sign that could you put it up perhaps on without somebody's okay traffic control sign is any sign designed to control traffic in streets or private proper as one way do not Direction sign without Direction design to direct the public facility or service to direct as not like when you go certain you havea that says SS with a distinctive color of well I guess it all depends just like right I think those are the you know those are the two issues that we have to separate a little bit and then come up with specific Poli signs on somebody else's problem direct direct evti to for example assignments on your property this is for example just take this in the back of Z the people when they go through this event on so there was a sign let's call it purple purple sign that says s okay next Ro next whatever that be and and then it then it comes up to whether or not we're only going through wild special events about about yeah well that's a that's a recommendation int that specials they intent was tool whatt traffic yeah because it's on somebody else problem a stop sign oh like uh like $129 something like that ideer instead of having six or seven different bloy fiberglass signs we have one big piece of PL plywood and each person can kind of put their sign there and so we know gratitude Gard turn this way turn that way that beide but I think it be kind of and not everybody the ones that are kind of open year round I I don't know if you're okay open fairly every day open doesn't have to but in words people get know where this place let's face add oh up to a point you might not even need it because let's assume for a minute that wants to put his sign I ask you how much is stop sign $100 I'm sure he'll spend the money to put the signs from wherever his business comes from the North or from the south from the east or from the west and buy two or three and have them on the high there should be obviously if we're going to talk about science I would definitely love to see that and that way we organize everybody knows where maybe at the beginning of each what business that puts on whatever event what do you want to call those directional sign I think that you want to make sure you don't open up the can I'm not sure because because I think we have had that discussion in the past and um one of the major problems with that is for example driving down children and you have one of those boards either North both would you get to off the letter WR by off that that may I also foret Jim I I like your idea a lot it's very good but I think that that might be you know kind of like running and we're kind of like walking so um I'm wondering Jim with regard to these directional signs because you know Darren brings up the point he has consecutive events okay and they're going to run for a certain period of time um I think that's really the sign that we have to concern oursel with you know the one you know because if we looked at each Saturday as an event I'm not trying to pick you out but if we looked at each Saturday as an event and we did the 14 and three then he would technically be able under the special event requirement be able to leave it the whole time I don't know if that's what you're recommending Darren but I heard you say that I don't know how the rest of you feel on [Music] that because you have to take it down within X days [Music] okay okay and we're going to kind of basically follow what you said Darren using the special event sign times okay let me ask you also we talked about at the last meeting what about like offsite signs that if you were going to put something um a larger sign Maybe um at the you know let's say you let let's say you Simon in your wonderful location decided to go ahead and let Joseph have a sign on your property um you know Bas on what they said that's what creates problem you let him and we lifted I think he was a B on that side of one point in time traffic or whatever that's why I'm very you know I think the idea of having a per that you buy you want it you buy it and the town will allocate it at a particular place and you maintain your your farmers's Market is going to be closed in the winter you don't SC your sign take you that's a great idea but again I think we need to get to the next round for that but there's no reason you can't recommend it prer more more professional and people will you here if you look at the yeah yeah yeah attractions Yeah Yeah Yeahs Brewery okay so you want to do an attraction sign as opposed to a directional sign Jim attraction sign we don't have a definition no we don't but are they they requesting that they're requesting that as a recommendation he's saying they pay for Simon saying that they pay for the event pays for them yeah yeah course you have a public comment Kathy there's a public comment was not behaving the great you're on I heard you was that yeah turn it home I know yeah I can't hear myself but it's a great way to you know support agism and question to the attorney is can you say if you're a member of AG tourism you're eligible to purchase one or two of these signs consistent signage like you're talking about because you don't want to open it to Amusement sign hey you know I'm an you know everybody allowed to pin it in that corner that this is part of Agri tourism this is supporting Agri tourism and if you're a member of the Florida Agri tourism Association operating an Agri tourism facility then the town will allow you to purchase up to two signs they're consistent their color whatever everybody is De and you put them at a place that you know if you're north of okobi put it where you're coming off okobi if you're South okobi you put it where you're coming to South and my question is can we narrow it to just the Agri tourism registered people without facing some Challenge from somebody else that says oh I want one of those pretty colored signs to save my company well I think I think which your um one of the things that you're suggesting with that is that Agri tourism um operators would have to um basically get on a list um in order to uh be eligible for the signage so off the top of my head I can't think of anything right now that would prohibit that but you know um signs are um you know heavily litigated as probably a lot of people know you know we have to be content neutral the regulations do they have you know size and location is is okay to regulate um so I mean to answer your question um off the top of my head I don't know anything that would prohibit that situation but it's something that would' have to look into because you are excluding other businesses so there could there be a speech issue there I don't know maybe maybe but on the other hand if there's not then it would be a good way to get at the whole uh concept of what Francine was um hoping to do at some point and that and that is to get Agri tourism operator operators on a list so that way when they do operate and people are calling in and complaining at least we know oh that's an Agri tourism event so I don't know we'll look into that yeah I love the attraction sign and if the people are paying for it and we have specified locations you know last comment is the government the the sound thing and I don't think the intent of that was to allow private you know companies Agri tours or or any other company to have events with unlimited sound it says trades it say what else it say basically Town sponsored events right so my opinion is the intent of that was tal spons events but I understand what you're saying the way worded you you say hey the state says we can have it so we're government sanction statute says you we can do this that mean it's government s State Statute said you can do because that's what you're banking on to exclude you from a sound limit Based On A Sound Ordinance I I don't think that that's an accurate way to to interpret the law that it's their it's a state sanctioned thing because it's Agri tourism so there before they're allowed to do whatever um it's all you know again I mean everybody knows it's all about the offside impacts I just my point is if you could come up with a number you know that that makes sense business for whatever operation you know the way the or is written it's measur with in the setback so you know you add the distances and you know is obviously very so so that's you know to say sanction makes us exemp does it's just number one so I just want to alert everybody that I didn't stop the conversation before but I'm going to now because we already have code on noise and it defines government sanctions as parades and celebrations not necessarily as an industry that's supported by the government but I think that if we go back to that original recommendation of you know identifying some industry standard I know that it doesn't sound right to say industry standard but you know some type of um farming or rural industry standard we could go ahead and use that rule of thumb six DB per foot backed off you know from like the center of a property and come up with a number we can live with no those are those are good what if so that's why I'm trying to say no I hear you and that's why I'm saying let let's pick a decibel and see just on a quick math of the six Deb of foot if we come up with something reasonable okay can I just can I just jump in here but I think that's a good exercise but at the end of the day the ordinance would have to read um X number of feet from the property line because once you start saying you know putting a decimal number in the middle of the property then you're then you're regulating AG no no I'm not I'm not saying that I'm saying to come up with the number from the property line start at the center of the property with the loudest noise and you're taking six Deb off every time you move a foot so or six feet okay so it's a deciel of foot dou double the distance okay I read that whatever but let's just from an exercise point of views why would we put an additional restriction again on agorism we we our restriction is is a timy we all no the valid permit takes you back to 80-2 and 88-025 is like you said that we follow the operating hours and you're requesting an additional time frame to do the cleanup so you're falling through in the outdoor [Music] lighting yes that means that you have a special events permit correct and and that's what I'm saying I'm just confirming that's what you're saying you want section 80- 025 based on the operating hours for a special event plus you wish to have was it an extra hour for the lighting okay okay just for the lighting and the cleanup okay okay you might well it's actually the noise ordinance for the whole town and essentially from 9:00 am to 10 p.m. you can be at 55 DB from the property line okay you have to measure with a sound meter that's calibrated and all that stuff however if your neighbor complains um and it's sustained we need to send someone out and measure special events no no right we're agreeing what we're saying is AGR tourism wants to fall into so instead of outdoor vents operating with a valid permit it would be out to our events operating with a valid permit or if AGR tourism operations or something like that because then you want to fall back and have the operating hours for you to go right you want to change that to midnight okay right okay no it's not is it yeah it is I keep getting them mixed up you're blowing my brain power with that mic yeah oh I'll turn it we were good for a while yeah I think that yeah I think it's I keep forgetting it because the word midnight is written and I can't read yeah yeah yeah okay so I think we're good there so we're still on the attraction signs and how we're going to come up with the recommendation on that right I want to put a call to see if they anything like that in any other part see gu will you email that to me Simon and then we'll distribute it to the group and they can everybody can comment back not with each other obviously just back to me okay that the only other thing that I wanted to bring up was alcohol we don't the state does but uh a lot of it relates to classifications and what licenses is that to different state and I don't know PS back into I assume that since since the state licenses that children subject definitely they are subject to it and there's other I think also under the F or some licenses that I think we have one in the that is regulated by the state and you can get different kinds of licenses from the state you can get a catering license also if you have a KN for profits serve your alcohol that's another way to do it so you know um yeah I think that's fine but back my back with my first opening statement I think that the a needs are together for new potential byour and businesses to let them know all all of these different enties that they have to perish from States and and how what they need to do to it's not a per it's just it's a what you got to do and there's there's some really good references in some of these the tourism business by books about how to set a business up think I think the T should be everything to I like your idea I like your idea great idea and I help a lot where I have a problem with I always have a problem with when the town we can do ital way that's what I'm saying him not not not people so to Champion and actually probably no other town is doing that which is well I just want to interject and I do apologize for that what I think need to do before we actually write a handbook is kind of gather all the resources and put them on a web page so that we kind of reduce the amount of investment on it um and I've sent you guys an email everybody got an email um if you would please send recommendations Jim you to um about what you want us to put on an agrotourism web page because I think that would be easily accessible and it is going to be like a digital handbook but it's going to be existing resources and links as opposed to you know us sitting down and you know doing a lot of um publishing but don't hit reply all yeah definitely don't hit reply reply you have to reply to Francine individually like to shampion some kind of sponsorship from the people that are here to those that want to come into they want nice rary so I think that we do something like that help all the other like in that same website well I don't that has to be a town policy as to whether we're going to be you know advertising events on the web on the website but we'll bring that put that on the list of recommendations you know we can can include that yeah no not not so much we don't put a lot of other stuff on our website but that's not to say that we can't reconsider and should ask the council what they want to do and let we have those nice signs that we're talking about and we Havey whatever it is the the ice cream I think we we very well I think Jim you did a good job getting us through the hard stuff we need to get back together though and look at what we've put together for the recommendations so do you want want to try to do that in two weeks is that too close okay oh hold on I don't remember the date 19th okay so this will be the 20th I'm not running no no I'm just saying because we want to make sure that that these are your recommendations it's up to you guys you're the committee but I'm suggesting two weeks you never know over the wall That's aord of no I think it was I don't think it'll be Ed I think that these are reasonable recommendations they may get tweaked um we had been planning to put them on the um first meeting in May because I don't think you want the recommendations to come forward um for the first meeting after the election because it's going to be a busy night um so we were thinking about May 7th and it would be good if you would all be here to engage you know on the recommendations if you could okay so we'll come back together in two weeks and we will have um a summary of the recommendations um the sooner we can get something listed out we could circulate it um but at least we'll be back here and we'll you know look and see if it looks good in writing or not anything that anybody want to talk about the last any any ideas anything anything else you guys talk about brought up that other the last meeting were talking L I just thought maybe maybe it's just not a bad idea on website out I'm just kind of reminding everyone found Mak that's nice thank you guys thank you and you guys really you're the most efficient meetings of all look at you after April you Sunset then you got