##VIDEO ID:uSa2d14BtmI## okay um this is Wednesday September 4th 2024 we're at the Eagle house and this is the board of assessors um we are trying to meet on Zoom but it's not working at this time um so we are uh recording through um our public broadcast so thank you so in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and ideally broadcast live over the Lunenburg Public as access channel on Facebook live and the public access Facebook as um as written in our uh agenda notice the link is published there the recording can be found on lunenberg access YouTube after the meeting and this meeting is held in Person of the location provided on this notice members of the public are always welcome to attend this meeting please note that while there is an option for remote attendance or participation as a courtesy to the public this meeting is not suspended or terminated if we're technical problems um unless other otherwise required by law members of the public particular interest in any specific item on this agenda should make plans for inperson versus virtual attendance um accordingly um for remote participation um there is a zoom meeting link a meeting ID and a passcode you can enter from the telephone um and this agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those was reasonably anticipated by the chair votes taken as a result may be taken as a result of these discussions and not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by open meeting law I'm calling this meeting to order it's now 710 um so just um since we're on video uh and not on Zoom um I'm Sarah camera I'm stepping in as Vice chair because our chair could not be here today and I'm John rabit and I'm Linda MC Linda mcade thank you are there any opening comments from the board should we bring up the issue there's two issues I'd like to bring up if I could is it on the agenda like later uh where we're looking at ex not okay not really in this regard okay I've been approached by uh one CI who was asking the status of his abatement we in fact had a had signed off this an abatement on about the 3rd of July I believe and there still has not been a check generated for this individual so we're 3 months from the moment in which we said yes and it still has not yet been released okay so the issue is not um that the abatement hasn't been granted it's that the check has not been sent so I think we're still still it's unfortunate for the resident that that's happening it's not the ass it's not the it's not assessment it has everything probably to do with munice it's it's the tax collector I think they might be a little bit behind but we did Grant all we are caught up to date with all of our yes uh abatements they have been entered into munus that particular one was entered in on July third and I did check with myene and I guess she's going to try to get those out so there I think they're behind Okay so that was the first point you wanted to right I just said for the residents that might be and you haven't received the checks give us a call and we'll try and fet those out if they have't well I I think at this point um you can call us and confirm that we have processed the abatement and after um if that is happening to you you don't have a check I think then you have to call the collector's office the tax collect the tax collector's office cuz we can't do anything about that except say please process that check you you'd be better off calling them directly than calling us for that part right and the second part uh with regard to U basically the assessing organization generating the Billings for exemptions for checks and cutting checks for car abatements and things like that uh there's been a push inside of the town to to essentially cause it to become a responsibility of the board or of the assessing organization am I saying this right now oh no as far as the billing the billing function uh the way that the the bills are for the motor vehicle okay so this this sounds more like um an agenda item to add rather than public comment I don't want to have prob we probably need to bring that further down this was something that just it is actually is it is it in the agenda yeah is it's not really in the agenda but we can discuss it later on if you we yeah we can talk about it in um current when when you give you a report yeah okay yeah so that is the excise check it's actually the the billing the billing file processing of Motor Vehicle in real estate so you can address that I'll address it okay thank you any other comment from the board that's enough I have none any comment from the public okay thank you public all right so status support status report from our principal assessor we've been very busy in the assessing office uh since our last meeting we had seven of Butter's list that's actually picked up uh we got caught up on all of our motor vehicle excise tax abatements last week uh we sent out all the chapter land applications all of our exemption applications went out uh people have been bringing them in early they have until April 1st and everybody's been coming in uh so we're um getting those all in folders and getting ready uh to uh we we have like what weic more than six months but we're always ahead of the game and getting them all organized so that we can get those processed so we've started that and our new data collector Denise McHugh uh started two weeks ago uh she has hit the ground running she's been out in the field she's doing sketching and she's been a tremendous asset uh to the department uh we're trying to finalize the growth so she's just doing a great job we're trying to get caught up on the permits we've got such a big list uh I had one property that I noticed had a permit for an inground pool and I went to look it up in vision and it was a vacant press all land and I said something wrong with that you won't have a inground pool with they can press all land come to find out there was a house that was there since 2023 so Denise went out and measured it so we've got the house so I'm actually going to generate a supplemental bill you know I think we can expect to keep finding those for a little while because it's just been underst staffed for so long yeah so you know I'm hoping with with all this progress by the end of like next year we're not getting surprises anymore s if I could yeah support what your statement is that essentially um we know that for a short period of time even the building inspector was not loading the system in with building permits and uh the that's a notification system that goes all the way around so that didn't happen it fell through the cracks we know that uh uh basically CJ and he had confirmed to me that we were asking him in terms of how many inspections are you doing post sales and it been for as long as R goes we haven't done any so there's a mountain of work there and it's a pile of money that's been left on the floor and I I think that uh our data collector Dana is going to pay for herself many many times over no she is and the other thing that we need to do is when we hire an admin and if r i can get caught up we also have not had a chance to put our building per and vision so that's another thing that they need to be key in uh at this point we're we're trying to follow up on them get them into uh vision and and we are doing that because we're trying to get everything in and uh so this will be another supplemental bill that I'll be generating but can you bring me up to date in a minute do we have anybody for ad uh we actually we've had some applications come in the difficult part is we really would like to get somebody that has some Muse experience or at least some Municipal experience and that's difficult and with being short staffed to train somebody is just take it's going to be cumbersome for us and we're trying to get caught up on all the stuff that okay and Mr M if if I could just compliment you and Reena you go in there and Sarah there's piles of things going out in the mail and envelopes being stuffed and I'm looking at you know our lead assessor and she she's cranking on there she's got two or three different calls coming in at the same time and I'm sitting there and I go how do they do this how do they do this it's nice that we have qualified people to operate the office you were so saving us you really are well we we're all working together as a team and we we just we try to help everybody that comes in yeah and um I I had a lady that come in that you the other day her husband is sick and she said you know I can't leave them and I said you know what if you need me to come pick up the forms for you we will gladly do that that's what we're here for we're doing we're doing the best that we can but so we're just trying to get caught up and do uh get everything into the most important thing is to get everything into Vision make sure that all the properties are in there and uh that arer is up to date with the Deeds so the next thing we're going to focus on is just making sure that all those permits are in so uh printed out a list of the permits today for Denise and she's following fing up on them and then uh she's going to start cyclicals and we're also going to follow up on sales as well so we need to do that for the Department of Revenue and we're probably going to put a little bit more on your plate but we'll talk about that in when are the cyclicals do for uh we have a 5year plan okay we did do the reval last year but we we do need to do um to do a certain percentage 500 every year 10% yeah so between Denise and I doing the building perits every time we go out we put a visit history into Vision so that counts yeah as there that 400 homes a year you have to get up how many can you do a day and got it's that's two people that's two a day for one person well she's been doing four or five a day nice and you picking a neighborhood and getting at it yeah yeah great actually speaking of neighborhoods we our neighborhood committee is that one of the it's later it's later I do have one that we came across great is in ass I if you want to wait for me to discuss that at that time you can give it to me then okay all right um I think the excise check billing do you want to talk about oh that right now yeah um we do have an issue with responsibilities of the assessor and the tax collector uh that actually came up this week uh the tax collector is wanting the assessing Department to handle more of the billing file we would just take the billing file and from vision and just give it to her and as far as with motor vehicle we never really took the motor vehicle excise tax file that comes from Kelly and lion and we didn't really process that now we're being asked to process that so that's something that I'm going to be doing I I'm going get um has this been run through our interim Town manager he had requested that we take the file and upload it into M asked that that like what has to happen then cuz it stops with the town manager yeah so that's going to happen and then I guess she's going to pick up the other point but we'll see what happens he did indicate that we would get some help with that or some assistance so I'm hoping because I just feel like we have enough on our plate I I do think you have enough on your plate it's just it's it's Pro it's not um I don't think it's our role to tell the town manager what to do I don't either um so you know we we I think can speak to the town manager and say where have you seen this occurring in other communities and point out that it's irregular um from what we've seen but I don't think we have the power to tell the town manager no that this is that this can't happen we can express our disgruntlement about it but I did do that I did speak with and and this board can do that too and and I think um I will if it pleases the other member of the board which I think it does talk to Mr leond about it oh I think we should yeah but I had some conversations with depart rer today and first of all we're elected to establish the policies and procedures with regard to what the organization does right well well we we are in terms of inside our assessor's office right right we do not get to control what happens between the Assessor's branch and the other part of the financial branch that that is uh by Town Charter so I took an go ahead so I if it's countered to the town Charter we might be able to do something but I I I contact the do to confirm uh I talked to Becky in this regard and she feels that no we shouldn't in fact she believes it's a conflict of interest in that regard and she was pretty you know vehement sheing yeah and she was going to let us keep moving along but I really do believe it is and given some of our history so I think what we can say then um and maybe it this sounds like it's um it's not quite in our agenda because it just came up but I think maybe we put on the agenda for for next meeting to have a draft of a letter that incorporates some of the things that you talked about with Becky at do that talks about that conflict of interest and why it's we consider it inappropriate right um and and go that route that's what we can do but we maybe we kind share that with Carter that he should be actually checking with Department of Revenue because my clear interpretation of what I was told today by our local representative is that this would be perceived as a conflict of interest and it's clearly another function so I I appreciate that you've had that conversation and I know a lot of other things and I know you're reporting it but I wasn't in that conversation and it wasn't put in writing so I would like the opportunity to review it before I draft a letter like that okay what what I'm going to do is I've got to get these instructions from myene I've never done this with the motor vehicle so I guess I'm going to see what it entails and from there I I can let the board know but I've been asked to do it I I will do it and then from there I guess we'll see what happens yeah at this point and if it seems like I mean we have to have checks and balances but oh yeah I I agree with that too but I guess we'll see once I can see when she hand hands me the book and I would like to also emphasize this is not myene this is another department that's overrun with with a lot of other things going on in it uh the town needs needs procedures work breakdown structures things like that that have it it just the bigger we get the more we move away from line of sight management and more into more regular functional how we do things and people move in and out and we don't have that well I well the other thing is you know we have an interim Town manager who is just assessing and triaging and and trying to get things stuff he's doing a great job we have to understand that part too he is doing a great job and the other assessors were not doing this and this is something new that's kind of come on the horizon since I started so so we'll we'll we'll see I'll see what it entails and then we'll just I guess discuss it the next meeting and I'm sorry I can't quite fix that no well it's it's fine we'll just address it at a later date but at this point it needs to get done so we need to get out motiv vehical exercise to fill L do they have a procedure they can hand to you an operating process that yeah I think that's the next step is we we have to how long do you have to come up to speed on this is there some training that you can have I don't even I know she's got she's done it in the past I know she has the book so I'm sure she'll produce the instructions with it so yeah bye well thank you for all you're doing there um any other information that you want to convey that that's it okay are you s up enough thank you um with your permission fellow member can we skip over the minute that's from august 19 I would second that motion um I am I will um email Mr leond and let him know that that needs to be on the agenda for next week okay and also on the agenda for next week for upcoming stuff we need to look at um rules for tax files yeah yep and discuss so we can um put that on the agenda for the 18th hopefully okay um I think you're running the agendas now I am so um if you can pop that into the agenda that would be quite excellent um I'll be coming back that day oh my wedding is on the 14th so that's my first day back so I got to do that agenda next week thank you all right so that brings us to our next uh topic here review and approved invoices expense vouchers payroll billing errors Etc yep I do have three invoices I just want to make sure that have them all we do have that motor vehicle commitment okay so I have um this is an invoice from r RC which is the personal [Applause] [Music] property so have they finished doing their personal property they I have not gotten the amount for the growth uh that is for the the for account listing Discovery and file maintenance and wireless and cable review evaluation yep they did the appraisals and then they did have someone come out who was doing some of the uh the businesses the praising praising for okay but we're still waiting the listing I still waiting on the growth theow they did tell me that they would have that by the end of this week oh that's great so we should be all set and we're anxiously working that's amazing Denise and I have been working very hard to get that done great all right so you just want us to sign on here yeah if you could sign those okay so um Mr rabbit this is um okay from Real Estate research Consultants RC that's for 10,100 I had more than that but today's 6 this is for um sales postcards we're going to start fing up on sales so we're going to send out it's like a blue 4x6 B card that we're going to send out giving people notice and then we're going to write on it that we'll visit in 1 to 3 weeks so that they know ahead of time know you're coming and then we've been leaving a door hanger M so that when Denise has been going out and she has her badge I'm ordering her a coat and uh I think Sarah and I need a coat so so does she go and knock on the door 3 weeks yeah and if no one's home a hang tag come hang yeah okay she said to me she said I feel a little awkward because she's going to praise I feel a little awkward going on people's property and I said well if you feel an a awkward you don't obviously you don't have to walk around see what you can see check the card I would walk on the back use your own discretion I mean if you feel uncomfortable obviously don't do it that that's what I do most people are are fine where we have ID you know there's a obviously if there's a dog well if you don't know someone's coming you're always a little surprised these days yeah um I I was just this is a little bit off topic but I was just thinking you know we're doing this now and and this kind of thing it would be great if as we're going forward we're recording this so when we go to put in our next year's budget we have these things in mind I think you already had this in this year's budget but I'm just wondering if when you to increase or decrease anything we make sure we we have it yeah we put it in that budget was actually done before I got here so I've been kind of watching the numbers on now yeah it's hard been just getting in I kind of came in the middle of it so uh this is for the mapping now we our department takes the map the map and go for every department so maybe this is something we can visit next year it's 8100 so I know that our departments use that but we take the bul of that charge that's for near map yeah so it's kind of a great tool allows you to go in and look at a property if you have like a question about like a deck or like I looked at a shed and you can actually go in and look at it and see if something is there yeah so it looks like our building our building department probably us is it I don't know if plan land use I don't know planning I maybe conservation uses it as well maybe um I mean it's a it's a townwide asset so yeah it's got to get paid this a new piece of software then no um we've had I think we've had near map for near map for some time um and it that's the one you were talking about that let's you look at those views so we can really see what's going on in the parcel um this is this is a bill from near map for rgis integration um and near map oblique for government and the total for that is $8,100 and is that an unlimited license for the it's an annual license annual license okay and but it is unlimited it's limited to how many can you it has unlimited seats okay perfect government perfect um for the government part but not for um we don't have any seats with our integration because our town doesn't really have their own arcgis and um it has Nationwide coverage but since we don't have our own GIS we don't use it sure us that's it for the invoices okay this um is the uh warrant commitment I just made this up the xay so this is actually the the warrant and they're just attached all the forms so you can actually just sign this top one here that's all the the listing of the bills for that there um so which commitment is this is it multiple commitments now yeah that's actually so you could sign the three lines there and then just the top form that's the state form that we have to give to this one that one is just for our file sign you want me to sign it yeah sign that one and then the top form cuz I have to give that to the tax collector and then the finance director so how many more commitments for for excise tax on these do you think we're going to get typically this like six or seven a year for motor vehicle okay and then once that goes out our phone will be ringing off the hook with motor vehicle excise tax applic abatements abatements so every we're having a breather now but next week or whenever that goes start up again it'll start up again and it um but this is still related to the previous ones that we've signed this is new this is the new one this is the new one this is the one that I have to upload this is the file that needs to be uploaded okay so this is the file to upload for next year's excise taxes for the next next what's number go out how big a number is that there's um I believe there's it says I think there's two wait it's right right on the bottom there yeah the invoices there's 525 invoices that go out the valuation is um 5,745 $122 and the tax for that is $87,400 so there's 500 and it must be 8,000 so yeah okay that's quite a bit and that's not the biggest one typically the first one of the year is the big one okay so not only do the tax bills go out the first commitment goes out so weekend we're busy the first of the year and then we have theas do we send them both at the same time uh no they don't typically go out thank God they don't go same [Music] time right here [Music] I'm going to draw the lines on this one there no lines so I'll just draw the and this is the abatements for the previous years yeah the previous the previous commitments commitments okay and it's an abatement total of $4,690 2 cents yes and that um that this is a um so these are all canceled plates basically they are yeah people either sold or they traded it in so forgot to get the plate see so we have to give um a copy to the tax collector and the finance director so this is the same I printed out these lines you know sometimes is picky we check the button and sometimes it prints sometimes it doesn't so this time I print all three of them are they all three of them do the same we're just signing and trip yeah we had a huge pile and we got those took us 3 days to get those done okay I'm just signning up to here yeah okay and then here's another batch that's like it's roughly $10,000 at this point of the bab people got to turn in their get their canceled plates turned in sooner and you know what happens a lot of time in the mail we'll get they'll just send us to cancel plate receipt with no application no name you have no idea what no idea what it's for we try to look it up and so so cancel your PL send your receipt with your name and your license plate so we know and please put your uh your phone number and your phone number you'll save us a lot of time and money I'm going get your money a little sooner [Applause] but you know how often do you change cars you don't really think about it until you need to do it it's not like you do it every day this is the last one that's just a single cofy and that is it for that St oh I missed one look at that thank you there you go you got it you got them all yeah okay is this everything that's everything all right God you wasn't right along here miss chairman oh I got things to do yeah go to bed get some sleep no we just um we know what we thank you so much these are pretty straightforward this is it's not the complicated part of the meeting oh okay right we got to talk about some other things like it when it's nice and easy hey we get the easy stuff done so would you like to share with me um that file that you wanted me to see about yes the map so we came across in our permit investigation mhm we were looking at a house and um the property was on Crescent Paris M and we started looking at the site indexes and if you I made a copy oh I see it they are all over the place not consistent so WEA mck that up today and we wanted to bring it up tonight okay cuz that does need to be looked up all right doesn't make any sense why well it it looks like um just from this map it looks like a couple of values just weren't even assigned because they're zeros yeah and so I'm wondering if and and I have no idea until I look at the file if some of these were new growth and you know the property got entered but no neighborhood got um assigned to it so we'll definitely look at this Jack if you have anything you want to say there no I just I'm just thinking the size that it is a0 2 Acres I didn't know that's a buildable lot is it um you know I don't I I I'm not up to date on all of the latest planning I think it depends on2 whether you're near water or not or connected to town water but I I can't really say that that applies here without looking at a larger amount you just see you have some are four M and then you got one B on the other side mhm and you could see kind of where the four in the Cove you could see that being maybe you know one B yeah but some of the other ones and I don't know if that's that's actually close to where you are Jack is that a smaller Pond there is that that is a little Hickory mhm yeah is that a smaller Pond though off uh yeah yeah is there a pipe that runs across andoss the road there across the road but it's dry sometimes and it's just an overflow and but it's a real shall Pond and and I don't know if anybody really you're saying there's there're actually homes on these sites huh yeah wow we well not on all of them though right well Denise went out there and she had said that um yeah they they all have water view so mhm we just happened to look at it I said oh that's kind of odd that that was a four yeah so mhm some of them are pretty swaby but um well and and some of these say zero and I don't see a footprint of a building on them so that might be also why they're empty so there's one there's not a house on there um should it still have a sight index though it should still have some kind of kind of sight index and it could that previous assessor boards said well there's no house on this so we're not really considering it a neighborhood with any qualifier we're just considering this to be land however we know that a lot of our valuations of on the water are yeah are higher because of the land not the house L what about this one here definitely something to look at 84 there's no property on there and uh there there's no home and there's not there's nothing in reference point so that's definitely something we can look at because we can we can see the parcels yeah now that that committee um needs to meet I haven't been able to schedule a meeting because of things I've been dealing with but it's going to happen shortly okay oh you know what some of these don't this 84 doesn't have access I did have a resident sent an email that it's land it's the land locked yeah so that that also could be an explanation for but there's really in some cases it's just hard to explain because there's no notes of of how these were assigned because it was assigned by a previous contractor not through our office right right so that goes to what we're building here is a why things are certain ways and that's going to be a big job there another one too yep so this is what we try to do when when we go out and look at the properties we we see something like this we go and we look at the map MH M just to make sure that it consistent thank you okay next up we have a review of the overlay Surplus yeah which I think if if I recall correctly from watching and listening to the meeting s Town manager asked us to look at what we have in our Surplus yeah he just wanted um just a review of it uh for informational purposes so um and what the we he wanted us to release any excess we might have not at this point not at this point he just wants understand just just some information on that uh I sat down with Brian we kind of went through it last last week and we figured out the 5year average taking out 23 which was kind of sced with all the abatements so the 5year average was actually B based on 24 22 21 20 and 19 so what's your magic number uh $38,988 okay yeah that's usually what our Surplus is yeah or the abatement abatement granted that's the average of that that's a 5e average of that of the abatements of the abatements yeah yeah I so I had come up with 127 and I I used the standard deviation and all the other stuff but what I didn't have was what is sitting in the queue at uh ourv what we're holding to cover anything cover for the future so that would that would bump that up but I don't know what that number is well this is this number that that you just told us are abatements that are granted right it's not telling us what we're holding in case of an HB and that's the the tax board telling us we owe and we have four or five cases still pending don't we well that was the 5year average of the abatements it's not not what we're holding the part that it's not the Surplus no so for for FY 2024 um we Grant so far we've granted $181,000 726 that was abatements and exemptions this year this year FY 2024 so that's above what we have done historically yeah um now we did receive four CA four ATP cases for FY 2024 well I just got them in the mail uh we estimated 20,000 for those cases okay that would bring that FY 2024 total up to $2,726 so that that's how how much uh $2,726 we estimated I have a question there when when we estimated the 20,000 is that the total amount um people going before the board are requesting or is that what we think we will have to pay we think it's an estimate we're we're uncertain okay so I would like to know um the total amount people are requesting in case that's what we end up with we I can't tell you that because oh we can't they it was there was no value indicated on the abatement applications and that's the reason why they were denied because there was no information I see so it makes it difficult to I see uh indicate an amount but they were so in in all four of those there was no value whatsoever yeah which is why we rejected in first place cuz it was improper yeah and these were granted some of these were granted from 23 okay uh two of them were uh withdrawn because some other cases were negotiated so this is the attorney that had filed these cases I see I see for 24 yes so now he filled them out we denied them because we had no information so that's the issue so that's so actually the amount now I understand that that makes sense why it's that way okay so then we're expecting for this year to be if we're being conservative 2,726 yeah and we have um plus plus something's going to hit you said 20,000 yeah and and yeah that that was with the 20,000 at plus okay so we had um we were just kind of estimating um 379,000 roughly a little over that and then Brian was saying well you know we can estimate for FY 2025 221,000 so that will leave an available overlay surplus of 158,000 okay and again that's just estimate and that that doesn't include our senior workof also so I just wanted to mention that as well and I don't have any figures on what that would right at this point oh so Senior workof comes from comes from overlay from our overlay yeah I just actually yeah that's crazy yeah cuz that's not yeah I mean it I'm glad we're doing it but I found that I found that up today in the finance meeting that that that actually but the overlay is under the accessors yeah huh why are they taking it out of the overlay well they because you know it's an exemption would that be because [Music] we're but the seniors the seniors are well it is you know that's probably right actually know that you mentioned that because it's it's it's a um a thing we're granting for the taxes that are owed on property so we we kind of need numbers on that to actually be able to give the town manager how much we have and I might not have that probably till what jul that might not that might not be till October or November I'm thinking right she needs everything in by November 2nd I think or 1 yeah that that brings me to just one qu uh just a question seniors can apply at any time right or is there a time limit to work to January 1st to November 1st so so if we know um from January to 1st to November 1st so by November 1st we would know the the total amount of our liability so then we can return that um and then we can just hold that money to make sure that works okay yeah we we should make sure we let the town manager know that particular aspect of it um that they can app he does well he he we were in the meeting today the funniest meeting so he does know that that does not include the the scor work off okay yeah that was brought up today I'm making the assumption that on the deferral piece that we're going in with that that is not an exemption it's a deferral and that deferral would not come out of the overlay well a senior tax workof is not no okay I'm talking deferral with regard to the tax deferral okay but we're talking about the senior Tech right now I think that might be something different I think the deferral might let's talk about the next yeah okay I'm just talking in terms of what are we going to come up with an noing hack I I want to make sure we get through one thing and think about that completely and then we can talk about the def cuz otherwise I just get confused I cannot keep that all in my head want information to C she's a sandbagger are you kidding me there's only so much my active Memory Care especially at what 8:30 8 at night I've already been up since 4:30 okay so um so that's it for things that we know about right now in terms okay so we basically need to know and have a report on November 1st really because that that's the last day uh seniors can apply to that program how many and how many hours and what the value is and then and then we can give numbers to our interim Town manager and again we should have that in by the beginning and agenda yeah so we should have this as a repeat on the agenda for uh September well well no November 1st well let's let's give ourselves a break we're not going to know on November 1st well nove in November we'll discuss the we'll discuss the that's such joyful optimistic thinking I can't do that um you know maybe mid November how many if we're we have in the workof program we probably December you know right now um that I don't know that that we don't know that's why we time now up to 2000 it's increased for the amount of workout yeah yeah it needs to be5 is it500 it was I believe it's according to the state minimum wage now I guess okay so it's so per per up to 1500 okay I I'll I'll bet you nickel it went up to 2000 but I'll check yeah later I know just w I can win the nickel that she would never pay me she'd find an excuse do if we have to look it up right now it's a next meeting we're moving along which is great y all right Sarah Sarah's doing great Sarah yeah keep going um now uh you had a question about how deferrals work with the Surplus uh yeah where which pocket does it come out of because what happens is you're if someone let's just say that their taxes are 6,000 I love that you think I have the answer to that I've known you for so long now you have a lot of I I do I do not know um how that works okay we we do the deferrals and so I would assume if we are doing a deferral um that is related to our our property taxes that is stuff we need to put in the overlay right because we're the town of lunenberg except for the part that the state covers exemptions come out of the oval yeah but the the part that the state covers that that um we will get back but I think we still have to front it before it comes back and a deferral itself State doesn't cover anything in the state doesn't cover it um and it my understanding of some of these deferrals is it's Al loone it's essentially it's uh a lean on their house and what they're doing is you meet the criteria and it's changed dram dramatically it's now going over to the okay let's just talk about the amount okay the where it comes from the amount would I'm guessing is that these people will be taking not paying the town so they'll be creating an IOU to the town yes the town and as part of that process is then placing a lean on their property each year for the value of what they took you when the state it everybody's in in the program automatically the state pass that but now they've come back and said you can go you each town has the right to declare what they want for their own interest rates uh I've contacted the town of wubber as well as the town of Plymouth and they're running six or six or 4% depending on what's Happening uh it's not a big number uh I think Plymouth has 10 uh W has two or three and but most of them don't know about the chain this with regard to the circuit breaker the circuit breaker now allows you to earn I think like $108,000 that's not that's not where so we'll have a higher level of participation that we're not directly receiving the town it's up the town if they want to sell a note that's true um uh the circuit break well the circuit breaker is another thing but if we are I think if remember how this whole thing works we assess the properties within 10 % of their value right and we adjust things to that then the levy based on what the values of these homes are right gets added together and our town can choose to increase It 2 and a half% or not right if we are taking people um and and taking certain homes and saying we are not going to collect on that right now we're still going to tax them well we're taxing they're going to get the bill mhm but for a while that money is not going to come into us right unless the the money we will not receive a check from those individuals but we will be holding we will be holding we're putting a lean and we're not getting money from them for a while that's correct unless we decide to go ahead and sell the note to somebody else for whatever perc but let's say this takes time in town to do those things that you mention so in that time that we are not actively collecting that money that means the actual incoming money to the town is less so I would guess that that has to be in our overlay Surplus I would have to find that out yeah so I have another agenda item for you there you go how 41 A but I'm guessing I I would guess that we would have to cover that we would have other accounts in the town that we can use to tap if we decide that we want to let it I I don't I don't know that I don't know what we have free cash all over the place well yes but the town manager allocates free cash we do not so if if we're going to um if we're going to propose that we're going to reduce the amount that's coming in we have to have a discussion about who holds that yeah which Kitty is it going to talk right um yeah I know we have some free cash and stuff but that is also often allocated to a lot of other areas oh I hear especially if we so off my favorite schools and things like that they need the cash so too right interest isn't there like 8% yeah so that would eventually come back in so you know going before this gets put as as an option before the town I do think we need to know what the process will be for holding that money that that's a town function right determining managing how they want to do that with regard to the but if we want it to get past we need to know how that is going to work and when the money comes back with that 8% if it comes back with that 8% um where do those funds get directed yeah I can virtually guarantee you where the town is not there's no real money being spent by the town it's it's just being def referred and accumulated the the the note so what'll happen is we're offering it is being spent and that it's not being collected which means that number that goes to the budget annually will be smaller the that's if you assume when your balance sheet you don't reflect that money sitting in the other side as earning you interest if you accum if you show it as interest earned income that's that's a p&l difference between cash but it's an unrealized gain you you you are holding it for a while um you are not getting the tax dollars in because it's we're not collecting it because we've deferred so there will be a shortage in that year when it starts and you can and maybe at some point we will get interest on it but it still is going to lower that number that we are able to collect you're available particular year flow we're talking Year we're talking the budget year that that occurs right and there's also a long-term aspect where we will potentially yield more money and that will come into the budget somewhere but it won't be in that first year when it's happening it might be it might be the second year it might be the third year it might be the fourth year it might be when that deference um well when they die or leave or whatever and then the property presumably gets sold or or something like that that could come into the town as income but in the meantime it's deferred income it's deferred income but it's not income right in that particular year foring for but it's not it's there's a short term there's like let's say I know I taking $1,000 and I'm putting it in my 401k CD whatever okay okay that means I have $1,000 less views this year mhm but in 10 years I might have $10,000 but in the meantime I have to operate with $1,000 less that's got to come from somewhere that's what I'm saying it always has I want us to know that that is going to be a reduction in the amount we are taking in and have like an approximate percentage of what that is okay and I think we're getting in the weeds because you're asking where it comes from and she's going to look that up we're going to look look that up but I also want to point out it's a state law anybody can Comm in right now absolutely right now and but that's a different discussion oh I know we're we're not we're not debating that that's legal do we hack up the overlay and is the overlay available for that kind of a a so that is that is the question yeah and it's not an exception I I do think we have other issues that are kind of pressing um that we really need to focus on for town meeting yeah then I think we should focus on those just because we we have time A Time fr we're talking about this right we uh we can change anything we want we can collapse it at the last moment of the town meeting we can make modifications on the floor what we need to do right now is to get in the queue and get in the queue with something that resembles that piece we can withdraw anytime we want but we're on the review of the overlay Surplus okay okay and we have just gotten the review of that overlay Surplus there's a question about what accounts is coming from um if there's an exemption and she's going to look that up okay so we'll get back to my are you going to address that for town meeting cuz I only told the town manager there was only going to be two today because there's there's going to be a total of uh four four requests you've got to get I only have two I have 41 D and I have 17 out you have 41A that I sent you that's the deferral and then you have uh 7 the 17s and that's two parts okay but the the two that I got as a thing to review were 41d and 17f then I got an email that I was copied on where you were asking about specifics related to other things but those were not articles that that you you present it I believe that I think it's j I don't think we have time to do all those I think we need to focus on I'll disagree with you I will disagree with you with all all the only ones I'm willing to work on finalizing right now are 41d and 17f because those are the only things that I've seen text on 41A you've seen text and it's in the law and all we're doing is asking for that change the referral modification terms of the interest rates reducing it from 8 to six on the other pieces the verbiage is exactly what's in in the law documents and uh they gave us uh uh chart of what to say and how to say it and all I'm asking for right now is because we're up against the wall is that we say we would like to and we approve it we don't have to approve exactly all the wording we can change that 14 ways sunny but we need to get something in there otherwise we won't get the colus and we won't get the well we get the deferral is just so we won't be able to uh make any changes to it and'll get stuck at %. so I I appreciate that you want to do those but I've only I've I only saw the text for the warrant article for two did I miss something okay did did you see anything else did you send anything else for the 17s as I'm going to open my email okay go for it and then you also have it's not that I don't want to do these things it's that I need to review them and I appreciate that you want to put something in to hold a place but I would like to know what it is before I'm to it okay and I think we have until the 18th we have a deadline for the town manager to get the warrant in and at our finance meeting today he he had told me that he's going to actually email me how he would like it wed okay and I've gotten this I got this back from the do from uh and I'll send you the note uh Becky is saying they were fine the do reviewed it and uh essentially there's no real change in any of the wording with the except you know except red sure we reduce the interest rates and on that one and then uh F across and if I have the folder with me I can even show you exactly where the wording came out of so yeah actually the only thing that I have texts of is sorry not the 41d I only have the 41A a yeah that's all I have you probably have another one the 41A went out last week and the 41 when out I mean the the 17 yeah the SE they call the 17s and then there's another it's three parts to the 17s and uh for that matter where's the other page I got another page 41 claws the 41 claw with regard to the cola those are all colas that that's where I put one piece anded the F was in the other okay so I have 41A I can see do you have an extra copy of that Jack I'll give you my copy why you don't read my a I do I just I'll even send Becky's confirmation on just um there it is do you have the version that you the shorter version 41A yeah ofo that one that you have okay that's the cuz I know Carter is going to want the shorter version the one that you just show me this okay sorry yeah it has 17 17 C 17 C and A2 d e f41 41b 41 C and 41 D it's a blanket my apologies it's a blanket Cola yeah and yeah you can give him that give him this one and I'll let you have my this is the warrant because he's going to want this okay and he's going to want this too cuz he's the other this the only one we had talked about so far in previous meetings is 41d 41A 41A 41A uh we well we talked about 41 C the issue with 41 C yeah that's and we're going to and we're going to try to adopt 41d to in incorporate the cola yeah right and then we briefly talked about 17 d right even though we don't use it even though we don't have any right and we've never had by the way in t we've never had so 41c is the one we're having an issue with right now because it never do you want to talk about did you steal my state that do you have ex no no there was a there was we're going to 41d cuz of 40 the 41c being right right right I guess I'm going to start with the background yes so on the first day that I started in March I had a document that was on the wall for 41c that had income and asset limits and we have a there's a DLS Data Bank that had some State limits and one day we just happened to check what the limits were cuz we were going to make a chart uh for the elderly when they came in and the numbers weren't matching up so rer and I tried to find out where these numbers came from and what they currently are for the 41c is 315 for single person for income married person 396 assets uh the camp more than 527 and married persons they cannot exceed 727 right so what we found after going through the annual reports was the last adoption of the 41c was on May 6th of 2006 that town meeting the income adjustments for single persons were adjusted to 24,000 for single persons and married couples to 30 and the asset limits for single persons were adjusted to 40,000 and married couples to 55,000 yeah and at that particular time the amount of the abatement was raised from 600 to 750 mhm uh in May of this year at our town meeting for the 41c the age was decreased to 60 from 70 to 65 and the reimbursement amount uh was up to 100% of the exemption which should be a th000 which would be a th000 which should be a th000 yeah and and after that meeting or around approximately the time in the meeting you reported this yeah I I that we found this that there was a discrepancy yes so we've done some investigation we contacted the state the lawyer of the day uh we've done quite a bit of work because we want to make sure it's correct um and in 2024 we granted all of the people that applied for the 41c the amount where they've been granted in the past that was up on the wall that was up on the wall from un some unknown source in origin no controls we just don't know where these numbers came from and we want to make sure it's correct right so at this point I sent an email to the town clerk to find out out um based on this last article 33 from May of 2006 um to get the minutes um and to find out those statutes if they were adopted we can assume that that was the latest 2006 um we would like to adopt 41d um and add the cola to that yeah the C is there so can I make an argument I'd like to make an argument not that I'm trying to be argu this isn't an argument right now I just want to finish let me just finish this no M okay just just so I can go through and explain this so everybody knows so for 2024 we had 21 applicants that qualified for the 41c and I just want to make it known that of these 21 um based upon the numbers on this article 33 um seven of these people would not qualify we'd throw them off ba based on this may they can't qualify based on the article 3 the article that's proposed from 2006 and was accepted was accepted and something happened between then and when we went ahead because we used the state uh published document out of uh the data analytics research Bureau and uh basically at that time it was uh 750 bucks and the town meeting we raised it by we raised that number all I know is right now the town has approved this number so regardless of whatever happened before the town came in and said yes we want to do that because that would be consistent with all the other communities so that's that's not the discussion I I think we we we agree and and actually we need to go by this this article 33 cuz this is well that that is what has been published this is this is what the town agreed to what DLS says and what DLS has in here is technically incorrect for what the town has adopted by its by the annual report but where I waiting on confirmation from the town clerk yeah on the town adopted article article 33 with new numbers on May um excuse me on May the 8th 2024 well not new numbers new numbers weren't adopted on that date new percentage new percentage Agee and percent but not what qualifies asset wise and income and income wise that's the issue it's not it's not the amount we want to to exempt people it's that that thing we voted on doesn't raise the amount of um assets they're allowed to have and income they're allowed to have because in this this format what are they saying now uh well well we're wait I'm waiting on confirmation from the town clerk at this point so but there's nothing else that says don't anything else so we're hoping if we can adopt 41d and add the cola MH whatever the state right Cola is cost of living maybe maybe we get these seven people up to this amount and they can qualify because right now they had to apply for 41 C and if we if we actually enact 41d with the cola their assets and their income will be counted okay hopefully and and they'll be eligible with the cola for that 100% that we were going so I just need to say this 41 41 C say 41d and then I can take that to I'll send you tonight so uh for those you have at home we are looking at a warrant article um that um Mr rabbit put together that is trying to alleviate this with adopting 41b uh because that will include a cost of living and adjustment and raise um the amount of assets and income people are allowed to have and still qualify for that 100% if we do that that's correct yeah um we also have another one which right now we don't have any applicants that have applied for the 17d I don't we were planning on addressing this can we pause on 17d for a minute yes um would you like to read this so people know and make a motion read okay uh adjust income and asset limits for Clause 41 uh to vote the town of lunberg to accept general laws ch 59 Section 5 clause 41d which authorizes an an an annual increase in the income of gross receipts in assets whole Estates limits for exemptions granted to senior citizens under General law 59 Section 5 Clause uh and this be 41d because we don't have it and by the percentage increase in the US Department of Labor uh statistics consumer price index for the previous year as determined by the Massachusetts Commissioner of Revenue to be effective for the exemptions granted any fiscal year beginning after July 1 2025 now I I do have a question on that yeah is the age limit already 65 for 41d um because if not we should make sure that that gets into that I I don't know what with 41d was 41d wasn't even listed under the DLS so this 41d is got to be new yeah we'll have to because what we did with with 41 C is we took it from 70 to 65 right if 41d is still at 70 we want to make sure it's at the age of 65 so we might want to alter that to say to say uh commencing at age 65 okay and do we also want to mention the amount that it's also 100% of the uh amount the reimbursement amount how much is the reimbursement well it um sorry I don't remember it was some there's so many of these I know it's actually a th it says 750 on this list but I just want to see the amount on this article 33 so it it it was 750 on article 33 Okay so it'll it'll be we so we will want to say um can look [Music] this the amount of the exemption be, shall be $1,000 shall be a th000 right that's what we approved that was 100% what citizens will be eligible at age 65 right and you know what it says and F and and this was voted in in May and further to adjust the income and a asset limits according to the statute that's what it was voted in May yeah and I think the statues were the the right number so you're saying it should be um the hang [Music] on the age of the exemption shall start at age 65 [Music] and the [Music] amount of [Music] reimbursement be based on article 33 [Music] amount shall be based on article 33 of the May 6 2006 town meeting 6 2006 annual town meeting which I still need to confirm with the town clock that was adopted the reimbursement well that's that came from Cathy it well this came from an annual report I just want to confirm that oh that came from the annual report this came well this came from the town clerk but I want to confirm that this was adopted this is oh okay assuming it it it did I want to confirm that right hey and as while you're confirming I printed off the DLS analytics report on 825 a week ago and it still didn't show the changes in age it didn't show any of the changes that we had voted last year and so hang on can I I know you're ready to move on but let's I want to make sure I got the okay the wording right yeah the age of the exemption shall start at age 65 and the amount of reimbursement shall be based on article 30 3 of May 6 annual town meeting and shall be up to 100% of the exemption I'll second it well if you want to say $1,000 and she'll be up to $1,000 yeah 100% of well we don't even know so the reimbursement amount shall be 100% 100% of the exemption right up to ,000 yeah I think that's right the thing is okay so hang on do we need to reference article 33 then I would I would reference article 33 for the income and asset limitations that's what I would reference that for okay cuz that not you can get in trouble by put that's what we need to reference that so what what's is an issue for me is it it's only goes up to 750 bucks here but this supersedes this sued the okay so the age exemption will start at age 65 and the amount of reimbursement shall be based on article 33 of May 6 the amount of reimbursement that's very confusing the way that's worded isn't it yes um the age of the exemption shall start at age 65 it almost sounds like you double on the 750 the way yeah so the agent exemption will start at 65 um income and assets will be based on article no we don't want to say it's based on that article 33 because what we're trying to do here is make it um based on 41d colas from the state well right that's what we're going for here so we don't want to go back to this but but we we have to base it on income and asset limitations but we want to add Cola also to it but we're we're we're accepting 41d we want to accept 41d yes yeah we just want to make sure that our 41d language for the amount of the exemption is the same as it's $1,000 from 41 C yeah we're already um we're adopting 41d this one is about 41 C and May 6 2006 is about 41 C we're adopting 41d not 41c so if we create 41d what income and asset limitations do we have to go by the ones the state is doing with the cola right yeah so what numbers would those be because would we have to the state has not publish them I don't even know what those numbers I haven't seen it but have the impression that okay you're going to have 41c and the 41d was primarily just the cola to add Cola add Cola so it's an addon so what you're saying is we need some Clause that says we're going to take the as the um approved upon 41c asset and income allocations and add Cola to it exactly per as a state okay y I'm sorry it took me so long no it's it's can you see why it's been confusing for us because we so the age of exemption she start at 65 twice and say and you saw both my communications in terms of okay is it an add-on or is it separate what we're kind of putting them together is that asset guess it's 41d now and Rea and I have income and asset eligibility conversations with Jim Crowley who's with the state and we've talked to another lawyer of the day we've had several conversations trying what this really means yeah complicated as 33 have this trying to figure out where this of the May 6th which one is that 2006 meeting I got the wrong glasses on plus Cola as described by the state yeah under what 59 um- 541 D 41d yeah let me see if I have anything with that okay actually Jack that's my only it is it is Clause um he he references don't give it to her she keeps don't lose that 20 6 annual report my I keep everything or you keep everything my article 33 please don't lose that cuz that's my I'm to give my only copy of that yeah there you go girl this is my Bible here I can't lose that I know um see why I head spins with all this this is so much paper oh let me see if I have anything in the hey Brian ow owes us on this one see Brian's missing out on all this F heow so this one so you know what I I got fuel cuz we're not doing abatements right now we can we can get this written okay so the age of the exemption she'll start at 65 income and asset eligibility will be based on article 3 of the May 6 2006 actually I found something annual town meeting I'll let you finish up town meeting found something with Cola as with with Cola as determined by the mgl chapter 59 section 541 D I found an answer to your question so this is in the um which question this is in I have many questions this in the um the the property tax Bureau um igr release and explains with the 41c and the 41d and that was um the 41 C exemption options and it talks about if you opt for the 41d you see I got to read do if you have I can't read and listen at the same time is 41d the complete law or is it just the cola piece that's added in and cola yeah that's what I thought it says it right down there it's just Cola so you got to incorporate both of them together piggy back of one on the other yeah you can't okay so basically we're going to add Cola from 2006 on yeah that's what that that's kind of a good description there yes so do we do we know all the colors from 2006 to what these values will be I don't know do we have to add up that's what we're saying we're going to do is that how that's worded cuz I I don't know how we would figure that out the gross receipt limits that apply to the applicant may be increased to any amount up to 20,000 if single and 30,000 of married the current limit is 13,000 if the applicant is single and 15,000 of married um there's stuff about spouses and that stuff in communities that also accept GL 5941 D which provides for an annual cost of living adjustment so yeah 2006 whatever that value is whatever the cola was at the time it's a multiple ad multiple ad it's like calculating interest yeah on your bank account you know if you have $100 and you get 10% next year it's 110 and then $110 times let's say the interest rate is 4.5 yeah we got to do that so we would have to take so that is 18 years of cola that's easy is it Excel quick we can do it but I don't know I don't know what the cola is we don't what that number is for each year from 2006 to now so we would have to take that so for example if we had a single person we would take the 24,000 and then add the cola from 2006 mhm to 24 well you you every year we have to do 2006 what was the value now 2007 what's the value multiply the value of 2007 times whatever the cola is to adjust to 2008 yeah and keep adding that yes the it's not that hard to get that number what's harder for me to understand where to get is what the cola was from 2006 with the call is 2007 2008 I imagine we would use the federal government or the state government whatever they have the state they reference they must have a table somewhere it's the state's about half of what the federal fed say but that leaves us not knowing how much that total amount is going to be right now right and and how many you know and you have two totals to add it's not just you know the income it's the assets too yeah and the assets probably limits get that information yeah Reno and I work on that what does it say for the assets for the um for that description on the um for assets here um gross receipts are $20,000 it's income for a single married at and the whole estate limit is 40,000 of single and 55,000 if married yeah my sh this is yours oh no I mean um my initial sheet from 2006 I want to see what that okay but we cuz we have to go buy so our asset was so the asset limit for a single person was 40,000 back then so we would have to apply the cola to 40 start off at 40,000 for the asset right the whole estate yeah so so that's actually written here already on how to yeah okay so I guess I kind of want to see what that number is okay we'll have to see for 40,000 and 55,000 if married that's what we're starting from and then we've got and I agree we want to see the number but I need to get in the queue we also need to to have confirmation from Kathy though we do no so so what we can do is we can and and you know I think what you mean by the que is get this into the warrant right we could always say no we don't we don't want we need to pass change any numbers num and we have done that in the past a lot you know so so right now the age of exemption shall start at 65 income and asset El eligibility Will based on based on article 33 of the May 6 2006 and annual town meeting with Cola as determined by mgl chapter 59 section 541 D laws the total exemption to be granted is 1ou $11,000 we want to say that right it's up to $1,000 up to $1,000 or 100% of whatever that is if they if it went over above $1,000 the chapter but right now chapter 41d yeah um is only 750 it's still only 750 yes because what we voted on was 41 C I did want to make a comment because this is something that might be addressed as far as reimbursement we currently are only reimbursed for $52 on the 41c right so it does say that the communities that vote to make adjustments that result in more or higher exemptions than previously granted will not receive any additional State reimbursement it's it's all out of our overlay pocket yeah so I just want to mention that as well cuz that probably will come up and that's the town uh when we made the argument with the town we basically said okay you're paying right now Town's paying $250 the state's giving you 500 and we made the argument that says look we're looking for another 250 and if you divide it among everybody in the town it's less than a half a cup of coffee remember that of course I do because there was a comment about not equating it to a cup of coffee and a board of Select meeting right right right I'm sorry a select board meting not a boss meeting anymore SP okay um so okay so this is where we are on 41d okay can you read that yes so here's what we're proposing for our adjusted income asset limits and can we say for Clause 41d sure vote that the town of lunberg to accept chap general laws chapter 59 section 5D clause 41d which authorizes an annual increase in the income gross receipts and asset whole estate limits for exemptions granted to seniors under General Law chapter 59 Section 5 can I can I rewrite this yeah as long as you get as long as you can say as long as we vote say yes tonight I don't care I just I just want to make sure that the town of lenberg except vote by that word is out of the state that's State wording I change it except that we um we've we've written the stuff at the bottom a hybrid that changes the stuff like what we need to right at the top it's going to be redundant now the lawyers will clean this up for for us vote that the town of lenberg accept general laws chapter 59 Section 5 clause 41d which authorizes an annual increase in the income and asset limits for exemptions granted to senior citizens under laws general laws chapter 59 Section 5 insert the Clause um the age of the exemption shall start at at 65 income and asset eligibility Will based on article 33 of the May 6 2006 annual town meeting with Cola is determined by the percentage increase in the US Department of Labor Bureau of Statistics consumer price index for the previous year as determined by the Massachusetts Commissioner of Revenue to be affected for exemptions granted for any fiscal year beginning on or after July 25th and the total exemption to be granted is up to $1,000 does that sound what we want to do okay even though we haven't adopted that we still need to go back to 2006 to figure that out that was my next question we still have to go back to 2006 even though it hasn't been adopted to the col so you want me to go back to 200 I'm just asking even though we haven't adopted 41d we still would need to go back yeah let's do 2006 that's an easy calculation it's just that it's not linear when you go from a single person if we're a married person okay it it goes 20,000 and 30,000 just questioning that yeah I um cuz that's that's going to be quite a bit that's a lot of increase yeah what is it what is it in other towns for that 41d we have to find I can call around and see who else has 41d I what we should do is we should at our 18th meeting really compare this number that you're going to generate with the cola for every single year and whatever other towns who have this have as their current asset and income limits cuz presumably somebody's been doing Cola with that cuz that could be like 5,000 yeah so that's a lot of money that's a lot of money that's I mean that could be a that could be 5,000 or 20 I mean if that that just is it is it is 18 years of that just seems like it might be too much money let's check it we can we we need to see the numbers and then we need to we need to see what's reasonable okay I'm just don't get two and a half days left I well my only concern is that if I mean maybe maybe somebody was at can cold it to that 41 C automatically I don't know and maybe well what's interesting is that 41 C value matches that paper you handed to me of the 40,000 and the 50 right5 which was what was up on the wall right no there was an earlier one that was never mind I didn't mention the wall let's forget about that this is what this what give me a heada state is thinking this is what we got now you know what's kind of odd is that there is an fy22 exempt amount on this sheet exempt amount from income allowed 49 single is $ 4,911 and married is 7,000 well that's what the the exempt for amount is $ 7,367 so I think we're going to adopt this article as it is right now with the understanding that well we have to vote to adopt it but we with the understanding that we're probably going to have to take a look at those numbers and decide absolutely and actually really think about you know if it's if it is a huge amount is that really a reasonable exemption that the town can absorb or not yeah if it's not then we have to look at what is a reasonable amount and we look at what other towns are doing too like you're saying and I I don't I I don't actually know what that would be yeah um I I would like to see what other towns are doing for 41d to feel um that we are doing right by our seniors and also right by um by the town um yeah we want we're one in the same we want it and I really wanted to see what other towns have for that 41d exemption cuz I think you have some numbers there but based on what we saw on our on our wall and what we've been doing I'm not sure that DLS thing is is that was on your wall I think this was on your wall even before that and I brought Off the Wall again I got to stop doing that this was on the wall but when I referenced the DLS Data Bank yeah that's when I got concerned because that has all the towns but even those even other towns don't match up with that so so I think what happens and yours on the wall is higher much higher than what's the dlsc B you know maybe we can look at look at our surrounding towns Boton Littleton yeah you know I I think I have a list and and see what their what their um Community value you know their income and asset values are I did that you did that already I did you know Linda there's no 41 here oh there's 4K I'm sorry oh but this is 41c yeah it's not the 41d with the cola yeah I didn't do 41d we have to see I I want to see the 41d numbers okay we'll have to see maybe I could check with Becky B and maybe she knows CU our 41 C numbers seem on they seem to be that 40 thou the 41 C 40,000 55,000 yeah but it doesn't tell me what 41d is yeah well the only concern is that we don't we only have so much time get a stunt toown meeting so would like a c so if Becky knows she actually has one if Becky knows and can share it that will save us a lot and we've been going around circles with this for a couple months now so we we have to kind of WRA up I would move as so red agree I just don't want to not know what that value is yeah yeah do you want so do we want do we want to type this up um I I think I can type that up tomorrow I think we accept this I take a picture I'll take a picture and send it to you but I'll I'll type it up can you read this chicken scratch cuz um we're going from here yeah then we're reading oh God do you want me to do you want me to type it up um yeah if you'd like I don't I don't mind oh if you want it's up to you no it's just you're going to end well you have the electronic stuff of what I sent you so all you have to do is just pull that up and add that here's what this means we start here we put the age blah blah blah and then right after this we read this important section that instead of going on about Cola we have annual town meeting increasing by the by the percentage increase in the US Department of Labor which is the cola and then we finish with the total exemp to be granted is up to $1,000 okay where does this go right here so this this goes here we read this part and then you know what I should probably type it this line this line and then this right after town meeting by the percentage increase you read that line and then the last part go WR it out you sure and we will now you accept that um motion so move that we accept this glorious document motion to accept the adjusted income and asset limits for Clause 41d as amended today so moved and um in favor I ious all right with the caveat that we might need to change we're going to that's that's an okay now did we get a vote on my favorite deferral yeah did we vote on that no we haven't talked that we need to talk about that we're we're trying we're trying to get it all straight sorry to keep up yeah thank you for coming okay thanks for having well Sue thank you so much okay thank you for hey when did you get that Volvo what I work hard so has this been the annual interest grate of a crel as typical the 6% yes yes in fact some towns are lower than that I chose six only because it seems to match what is the current rate with regard to uh what the interest rates on mortgages are if you were to do uh reverse mortgage it's a higher number and so we're trying to we can make money on 6% the town will make money on 6% then if this town doesn't want to do that I'm sure I can get a pile of us that'll say yeah we'll buy that note for 6% you know so I think um I'm okay with this as it's written except we could get rid of that for example seniors disabled veterans blind persons or surviving spouses well is they put that in there only because it doesn't apply to everything and I had to call Becky up today and said Becky you told me earlier that BL the blind folks don't qualify for that and she goes if they're approved under a regular exemption then yes you can defer it but you can't just come back and do referral and say oh I'm blind too and let me take that she no I see you have to fix you have to fix so that's the reason why it's in there have you seen this see is that the same thing you have a copy of that this is the same thing yeah okay okay all right we're going to have to let Carter know about this cuz he he was asking about these oh yeah you want to tell them we want to be open but I do want to get we as an independent board can just leave we can pull it out no we we can do I I this this is in our our venue yes he can sorry Carter if you can be unhappy about it but we can still do it yeah no I didn't I didn't mention that today I'm sorry he just didn't know about it he didn't know I only yeah he didn't uh cuz I I only had in I had 41d and something else right I I have the same thing and I don't I don't really know why so I only had the 41 G and the 17 so uh I would motion that we have a oh no you can you have to no okay I would motion we accept the we can't do the 17 are we not doing the 17 at this point for the town meeting no I think we will do 17 but we're on the 41s right now okay so let's just get the 4 fin the 41 okay and move we accept the uh property tax exemption 41A and that it it's a deferral deferral deferral deferral town of lunberg to accept the modification consistent with Journal laws chapter 59 Section 5 mgl 59 subsection 5 to authorize an annual in interest rate acral of 6% UND deferred funds the amendment will be applicable to taxpayers who qualify for personal exemptions the Clause is mgl 59 subsection 5 for example seniors disabled folks blind persons or surviving spouses second all those in favor oh you got to say that all in [Music] favor thank you thank you thank you okay and like I said I have a I have a person who is very interested and we will start a pilot to find out what where we're going to get in trouble and yes I will find out where the money money comes from to supplement that but okay all right so we got 41A and 41d and we have the 17s y 17s have two pieces to it don't they well I think we were looking at the 17 F which would incorporate the cola and on the wall which we don't know where that came from we have a 17d with an exemption amount of 332 with an this no income limitation only asset and that cannot be more than 66,000 but in article 23 from May 9th of 1998 that um the amount of the exemption was increased from $180 to15 but I don't have any asset right amount so we have e andf and D was something was a hangover so f is so I'm having trouble with the the writing of this one because a is adjusted exemption amount for Clause 17s but then the vote is to ask to accept 17f but then it refers to clause 17d and then it talks about 17f again so for example adjust exemption amount for Clause 17s to ask the town of lunberg to accept General Law chapter 59 Clause 5 Clause 17f right I thought that was a Bolton which authorizes an annual increasing the amount of exemption granted granted to seniors surviving spouses and surviving minors under General Law chapter 59 Section 5 Clause 17d but it should say 17f F or E I'm not sure so I know okay I I so on this one I I I don't know what we're going for so I don't I don't know okay I just don't know how to do it because it's unclear to me what does it say on that DLS um it's not we have on that all you got is you got 17d just see on this 17d and nothing else there's no e ORF but the the main document was 17d I thought there's other 17s but do we have 17s adopted at all anywhere yes lenberg did adopt 17d back in 1986 okay okay and I only see one update for the amount the increase in the exemption but I don't see any change in the amount of the assets yeah I've not seen a 17d now my 10 years is real short but have you uh we we don't have any applicants yeah since I've been here there was so so my issue there is I just don't I'm I'm confused when I read the article I don't know I don't know I don't know what I'm doing okay that's I don't know what it's trying to do in some cases yeah I just pulled it right out of that back section okay that they said recommended the wording if we're not running 17 DS and I really don't know what's involved in terms of what benefits of I thought 41 replace 17 but I when that did 41 did 17 get replaced by 41 no it it's a whole SE they're different one the 41 is income and asset based and the 17s has no income only asset oh so that's the difference but um I'm just looking through some of the old yeah stuff that I pulled from the annual reports just to see if I can find anything because uh other than this information that is on the wall which shows 17d this is the only thing that I could surviving spouse over 70 I don't have a lot of information on it assets cannot be more on 17d can't be more than 66,000 assets including checking savings accounts and recreational vehicles didn't say anything about hous yeah so I think H and let's see what it says so 41 I wonder if in a total was some people who don't qualify for 41 C might qualify for Clause 17d because I like you know that yeah yeah yeah so they might get this um they might be eligible for this but since they've been eligible for the other one before they might have applied for that one because this is only that much yeah you're allow to 66,000 what include the checking savings account stocks bonds 401ks IRAs and recreational vehicles there aren't you're not owning a house find the IG on this so let's see you're not owning a house it's an apartment but they wouldn't even have property and and you must have uh you must own an occupy the property over must be over 70 and lived in Massachusetts for proceeding prior 10 years and know the property for five and that's for the surviv no the um the homes that's second homes increase the the assets include checking and savings stocks bonds 401ks IRAs RVs and second homes but I don't think the original second home oh say you're right second homes I don't think it account accounts for the one that they're living the primary yeah so so it does talk about the local option here of 17f and let's see what it says which has the cola yeah um and that's the cola increases the asset limit only in those commers that have adopted uh General law 59 Section 5 Clause 17e acceptance is by vote of the community's legislative body subject to Charter General law four section 4 the attach or similar language may be used for vote annual asset limit okay that's a liit [Applause] okay so it has an example a community votes to accept CL 17e local option and that it will be take effect in FY 2023 in FY 2023 the base asset limit of 40,000 was increased by 7% and the tax pay is qualified for the exemption with assets up to 42,800 and that represents 40,000 * 1.07 which is 7% the FY 2024 asset limit is calculated by applying the FY 2024 Cola to $42,882 so that's 42,8 * 1.06 5 which is exactly what you described y so we can do that that's the 17 e e yeah um and that replaces 17d 17 D yeah or does the 17 e just T increases the income the cola increases the IM income and asset limitations only in those communities that have accepted General law 59s Section 5 Clause 41d oh well that starts talking about 41d we don't want to go there all over the place I don't know too it's a lot so um so there are a lot of 17s and we're not using any of them in what you sent I'm I'm wondering what's the rationale between 17 c d e f uh do you you have any idea Linda well it just says here adjusted exemp adjusted exemption amounts for Clause 17 communities have the option of increasing each year the amount of exemptions granted to certain senior citizens and surviving spouses and minors under General law 59 Section 5 and then it talks about Clauses 17 17 C C and C and a half 17d or by any percentage up to the cola determined by the commissioner of Revenue so they have to vote for the 17 in order to do we have 17d there we have 17 D that so that's what we have right now we have 17d and 41 C yes so it sounds like we need to go to F because it says the cola increases the exemption amount only in those communities that accept General law 59 Section 5 Clause 17f formally this option was included in the paragraph added to General law 59 Section 5 and um acceptance is by vote of the community's legislative body subject to Charter General Law chapter 5 Section 4 so it sounds like we have to vote on that to be able to go to F to be able to go to F and the F was the was an exemption amount it was a asset amount of it's an asset amount and this is the problem is um it was like 45,000 something he said I think when you were reading well that was just an example so just the know what annual increase cannot exceed the actual Cola for any year so I don't know where to start with the exemption amount um it sounds like it must be the the percentage by which an exemption amount is increased each year must also be established by vote of the community's legislative body subject to Charter so so where do we I don't even know where to start with the amount there I don't think we ever had a we have had D so we never it's supposed toed but people haven't used it probably because uh their their uh the asset limit we had too allowed them to do maybe something else like 41 C right so what are the inent limits and married so this was 66 yeah so this is 66,000 on there so this is this combination of single and married or is that is that the total estate well this is a surviving spouse okay or or persons who do not qualify for 41 41 okay so if they don't qualify for this you appli this and so we probably should check that for some people on that on the the list yes because this they can get that can get that um they can own a home they just can't own a second home they the home their assets can't be more than 66,000 so is this amount the asset amount correct though that's what I'm wondering I have no idea so I don't know where that sount came from I don't either that might be an escape for folks that have a a lot of money sitting in the house and they just don't count now it's just a function so I I I don't know I don't know um [Music] what does our 17d amount say on there on DLS 320 or something no no that's the exemption does it say anything about the asset amount no uh okay that we allow yeah we must own the property 10 years cannot have be more than $66,000 of assets the DLS site this is tax property exemptions close this is looks like lunenberg yeah we we want actually can I see your deal of course it's not that dat is not there on that shet it' just be nice if it had what the asset okay oh that's just an asset limit this only shows the 41c that's what you're saying right okay my brain has got up oh so much moving here it's totally just by reading this it almost sounds like the town votes that because there's examples and it's referencing 40,000 but it almost sounds like the town votes the asset do we do we have any um if you look at the documentation here yeah and and so like if we look at this single person versus married person here this number is between those two so a single person could have 66,000 as a surviving spouse they wouldn't be eligible for the 41c that we used to have but they might be eligible for 17 yeah D if that is a number we actually adopted by the town legislative branch yeah do we have any record of 17d in there um I mean we know the 41c is not we we learned yeah but this one maybe that's what we've never used it because they were just getting that and I looked back in all the annual reports and I didn't find anything with asset limitation only a change in the amount of the exemption for the 17d so would it be reasonable for us to say well these these two this 41 C and the 17d seem to be twin Clauses this is if you're married right um your income can be this and your assets can be this if you are a single person a Survivor spouse and you're slightly more than what a single person or have but you just lost your spouse we're going to give you this one um so it seems like whatever we're doing with 41d where those number plays out we should make the 17d Clause if we're allowed to but the 17d Clause looks like it's supposed to be set somehow and the 17f is the one that's the cola that's based on some amount that we don't know right just like the 41 1 D we figured out what that could be could be yeah but we need to figure that out for the 17f right and I just I don't know I I don't have the time in the next two weeks to figure that out I know well we don't have we just get it in there and we've got two months I just don't know uh and this has been the big issue that Reena and I have had is we've we've done all this research we've contacted yeah the state and it's been iess my question for the state is then can we set an amount and put a cola on it I wonder if we should check with can we can we ask that question maybe I don't know if we should I can go back to Carter and ask him if we go check with cul if we can do that yeah because otherwise we're going to just keep going back to this and recalling oh yeah yeah but we don't know right let's see let's can we can we do that what do you think Mr rabbit can we ask Town Council if we can set the amount of asset for 17d and then do a cola from there for 17f because the issue is we don't know what to start with they they do Define the assets but I'm this is back to being really confusing again and if I'm looking at you're looking at 41c I'm looking at 41c yeah and I'm looking at this document that comes from the state but it I believe we feed the data in and so if I'm looking at what's on this site if yearly income uh I'm just looking at uh 41c exemptions and if it's a single person here it says 31,500 we're not talking about 41c right now oh I know but I'm just saying there's a $10,000 F 17 e right yeah perhaps the answer is sitting in going back and look at the town meeting of uh you know April received April of of 2022 see what happened there cuz that's where the this shows a lot of changes and this didn't get changed at all so you're saying ler so we're talking about 17d but you're going back to 41c saying we seem to touch 41c in 2022 and maybe we did something with 17d that's correct okay that's correct well I didn't find anything in the annual reports changing any asset amounts for the 17 17 and the 41 NE one no well no not not the the 41 we found but we didn't find anything nothing anything even get voted on well I'm thinking I'm thinking what it is is whoever was on the board was like well we're we're constantly running up with this a 41c let's let's put this in in 2022 um but they hadn't been doing any 17 DS cuz they didn't need to do any 17d so there's nothing in there and that's why where we are where we are so can we agree to ask Town Council to see if we can set yeah the limit we want and let's see where Kathy comes up she's digging around right now yeah well if you if you look at all the um information here on the igrs it continually says the cola acceptance the cola increases the exemption amount only in those communities that accept accepted a love so and it it sounds like it's a vote Yes by the legislative body so so we need to set a level yeah so that sounds like that's the solution Sarah they're not paying us enough you know I'm I'm not the only one that feels us way cuz we've gone round and round so I can type this up if if you can type up something for 17d to set a level yes as an article okay and I'm going to Art uh Carter is going to send me something that I'm going to fill in the blank for that and um and and let's let's just at least for 17 D let me get my note from the article that was no put put in a agree to put in an article the 17 D that accepts a asset level to be qualified for the 17d exemption okay say something like like that and then we can come back and back fill with real 17 e right 177e do we have to 17d set a level well we have to we if you want to add Cola though we have to set the level in there we have to add an asset level so we can add Cola to it and that's 17e that's 17 e okay so we want to create an article that has this accept 17e that accepts an asset and income level so we can add Cola to it is e the one that gives Cola or is that f um let me verify that yeah and just exemption amount I thought was been talk a lot about annual increase in the amount of exemption just the exemption Grant I I have all night there's too many there's too many like there's too many articles it's yeah letters too many letters we have 17 d e and f yes right so so yeah this doesn't help this is I'm just going to give this back to you I don't want to look at it anymore yeah so here's my sheet on the when I was reading about that so close 17 okay so you know I think Adam C enjoy this I'm glad somebody will and I'm glad we're getting it done yeah CU um this is something that's been festing for years okay the process is messy but I'm glad we're doing it okay so we voted on 17 we haven't done that to just move ahead as you described oh this is a this is just a note you sent to Rebecca about 17 right I sent two different notes to get clarified cuz I didn't did it get clarified by email yeah you're seeing it that's not clarified oh you know what can I send her the she said yeah turn it over the lawyers too at the end I said yeah no I don't have that I just have the one where you're asking and I'm like I I so it sounds like from this example it reference that Community votes to accept Clause 17e local option and that it will take effect in FY 2024 in FY the base asset limit of 40,000 was increased by 65% as taxpayers qualified for the exemption with assets up to 42 it it breaks it down for 40,000 then 65% increase okay that's the example reference 177e there okay um but then I thought about F over here Community votes to accept Clause 17 F local option that will take effect to increase the exemption annually by 100% of the Cola in FY 2024 base $175 exemption is increased by 3.4% and the eligible taxpayers will receive an exemption of $186 so that's $175 time 62% yeah the exemption am is calculated by applying the cola to $186 the results so yeah and and when we're doing 17 enf um the town is agreeing the state will only reimburse so much and anything beyond that we are accepting so it's responsibility for increasing so F sounds like it's increasing the um it's the um amount of the exemption exemption and then e does the assets e is the assets for qualifying yeah so I think initially D had some value yeah e allows it to increase the assets with the for the eligibility and they realized at some point that is a pathetic amount so they added Cola to it with f yeah so what do we adopt then so we need to w we need to adopt we have 17 D adopted we need to set we need to figure out what value that's supposed to be at and if we're supposed to set it we set it and so we're we're going around and around in circles because nobody knows what the 17 D value was ever supposed to be um so we need to ask Town Council if we can set what that value should be yeah and then we vote from that value whatever value that is for 177e to in the future increase whatever value we set in 17d by the cola for asset eligibility in E and we take that ex that exemption amount and we Al we adopt 17f and we multiply that exemption amount by the cola also so we want to adopt E and F I think so the asset and income adjustments to the 17 but we have to set some value for 17d right and see if Town Council agrees we can do that so we need to set asset amount for D you just got the letter I just received this morning from Becky 17 D and then was last night two and so 17e was again to adjust the uh Cola asset Cola the asset accepted in 17d so that's the cola to the um amount of the exemption and then the other the f is the amount to the asset the cola to the assd amount right no um e is the asset amount I thought and F is adding Cola to the exemption maybe I have it mixed up and by the way she does say that my 41 C is going to become 41d yeah okay yep so e is to the that's right can we ask Town Council to make that draft Yeah well I think that's what you just said okay so to the the amount of the exemption and then e to the amount of the asset amount mhm oh my god wow I agree and and if we're allowed to do that for 17d can we ask Town Council to draft the warrant article I guess maybe you need to go through our town manager Carter to ask if that's possible okay I'll send them an email but like that looks like a lot of um this is a lot lawyer writing there because it I don't know what to do about 17 D's value and then to stack enf on top of it like I just want some help yeah want to okay are we done with that one oh we're done I so that draft is going to come out and I so you're going to write that up I'm going to type this one up and then I'm going to do the 17d and we approve that one approved everything so far yeah I I don't I guess I don't know what to do about this one and I have to reference article 23 that was referenced in May 9th 1998 for 17 17d okay the exemption amount so that's article 23 May 9th 1998 town meeting 1998 is that yeah which was $185 um be my order of priority is the deferral and the 41 making it the D going to d uh but I I I think if we have 41d and we're adjusting it we should adjust 17 because it's meant to protect surviving spouses yeah in their homes which is really important see protect them to well if we're going from 41 C we're like we're going to adopt 41 it's going to change to 41d and that's that's the one and then um that has single income and married income but what we notice is 17 has the spot if you're a single surviving spouse at this point oh the single amount asset goes up yeah to make you eligible for 41c which is really important yeah yeah not for I said the wrong number 17 d e and f okay we knew what you meant I know but I just caught myself and wanted to fix it and by the way the deferral does the same thing okay you they as long as you're staying in the house either you're married so I think I think we need to put on our agenda that we have to review that article 17 um for the next meeting which is the 18th so if that's supposed to be to the town manager by the I think 18th yeah I think they understand that doesn't the board the uh the select board have to approve that stuff going I don't think it's the sole discretion of the of the Town manager well I think the town manager finalizes I I don't I don't actually want to yeah I do remember they they try to figure out right now last go we're close I'll confirm that thank you that one can um but I I I don't want to vote on that one without reading it okay so we're but we're still with 41 okay and we're still the pro okay we we've at least got some solution we still need help with the 17 yeah but you can do that next meeting with Brian yourself we just need more information and yeah yeah that's the problem yeah but we're making some Headway yes I think okay are you ready I swear I only want to spend 10 minutes on this next topic yeah the website it's 9:22 so okay I'm agreeable with it short and sweet short and sweet what is what is short and sweet I uh have had a chance to talk to other folks in terms of yes there is a little bit of confusion couple like just telling me one couldn't find it it was there whatever we we got that yeah you got that what's the proposal The Proposal is essentially would establish a uh make an amendment within the existing site to essentially add a uh uh God what's it a table table contents question though didn't you ask for this before and you were told you could not do that and I found out why you couldn't do it the thing of it is I can't break this down and breakout section every one of those in this First Column is is a website unto its own and all these subsections are all part of that website you can't break out so anyway what we've got done is we're saying we're asking Sarah to say look in your first section uh get rid of the Redundant part add a website uh tables of contents by section and then the website here is the uh the first part anyway the uh I'm going brain dead here s the citizens P portion of it I do have the corrective actions uh I mean U accessor portion in there I and I just haven't had a chance to go through all the wording on the other piece so all I'm saying is that if you look at the website right now it's staying the same it's just that we're creating a way for people to find stuff a little bit faster and by adding in a table of contents a location and then we hot Linker link that to another another file and that's all so it looks like we have um the Assessor's Department landing page yeah and they can see right away agenda and minutes members and contacts right they don't that's all in one section but why do we need on the front page overview of the assessor organization um that's a subset of that in fact it's not even in there where is that the overview of the right under members and contacts I mean if I'm if I'm going to the front page honestly sure I want to see the agendas and minutes but then I want to see immediately taxpayer forms and guides yeah yeah um and I want to see agenda minutes taxpayers forms and guides but maybe I just want to see agenda and minutes motor vehicle abatement forms yeah that's the forms exemption forms yeah um Maps is a big thing Maps right the GIS maps that's Maps I remember the rest of this stuff it's too much information like I I'm just I'm already looking at this and I'm just like exhausted I'm like where where do I find I had my woman come in she was so confused on Thursday night and I told Jack I said I think we just need some links for people really what they want is their mtiv vehicle abatement form they want to be able to look at the maps right they want to find out about their exemptions their real estate abatement forms the just the general things that they want uh information throughout the year I just I'll push the for Section up front I I'll come back and say take that section move it up front you know I went to the form section and it linked me to every every single form in Massachusetts right and I don't want to look through every single form in Massachusetts I want to go agendas and minutes I want to go see motor vehicle and I want link right to that form I would just want to see that one for tax abatement I want to go immediately to that form and for maps I want to go immediately to the maps I like all this other stuff and we can keep that on the front page but then you know you can keep another link to citizen information how about if I just take the FAQs put that right at the front now the reason why the way we use the state we go right to the state is there are too many changes we can't keep up with all that stuff unless you want to hire a full-time person just to modify and keep so we would rather take it just I think if we only have a couple of things we have to change regularly like how often do they update the motor vehicle for we we typically just you took it right you went right to the state yeah and I and honestly the the year on it a lot of times you can just change the year right but I I don't think you should be referring them to the the well you the do I and I don't think they should be looking at training modules I I think it's well that's a whole different module I think it's too much information honestly I I think you're overwhelming people I I do I I just think it's too much we have an assessor section right that's for assessors that's section two that's to provide all the information that anybody who was an assessor would want to take a look at then we have the remember we have the citizen section in which we were trying to answer questions to any any reasonable level of of curiosity so if uh mailing you know and that that sits in the citizen section and we can put the frequently asked questions right at the very top there and just not caus him to do anything but you have to take him to someplace once it's there the way it structured right now uh it's a different white it's a it's a different site location it's a whole different light um how about you know we can keep this stuff but if we make the landing page EAS like front and center on the landing page you know what do people need they need the agendas minutes the number one thing people are calling about right now are Motor Vehicles put it right under the genda in minutes okay under that what do people want next well how about if we forms how about if we did like little tabs on the front motor vehicle excise GIS maps real estate abatement forms uh she has all of these are tabs these links like information yeah all of these are tabs especially like Division division card how to get your property record card cuz that's really really what they call us about they it it it's like I I've been to the page and for me I understand where to go but I went to click to find the forms and I was like oh my God it's it's so many links which one do I want I don't want to scroll through these I just want somebody to have done it for me right that's most users so for the for a start you got to go to the word go to the site right and then you have to go and and hopefully it it gives you this stuff and agenda minutes but that's Town agenda minutes and things like that you actually have to go to the up to the menu section and get to departments right and then you get to the assesses department I've come to the site yeah then so you've only got three sections citizen information assesses toolbox and assess values by location and that's their house right can we can we instead of having those three dropdowns instead of having those three drop downs can we do Motor Vehicle tax abatement maps and then additional citizen information assessors underneath those okay I can put the frequent frequently asked questions at the top and I will come back and why why do we need to put the FAQs at the top most people's FAQs are where do I find my motor vehicle yeah where do I find my tax payment they don't need to click FAQ they need to click motor vehicle they need to click tax abatement they need to click map you they don't want to open another page to get to their thing they want to see where do I get my map where do I get my tax abatement where do I get my maps Okay and then for the scholarly Among Us put the faq's after that the the problem is is if they don't find it on there they're calling us which is taking out more time that's and that's the problem is I two people Thursday night that one woman came in 40 minutes in the office trying to help her find I couldn't even find it myself okay so I'm so like I I liked the initial layout but we're getting feedback that they can't find Stu they can't find stuff yeah yeah and and I help and I one it was kind of strange because one night we couldn't find a motor vehicle a batement application and then the second night we found it right away so I don't know if maybe the site was and then one night I had somebody else com in for the map she couldn't find the map so then I right for the map so that that's the thing if we had tabs it would just make it easier for them to be able to just I'm going to put right at the very front end quick access and I'll put a quick a scream in there and let them touch those pieces Bri and bold like little tabs motor vehicle were you showed that group of three don't put quick access they don't want to click on another tab I can't get you there any faster yes you can how I do that you type on the tab micle okay you got and it links there the specific form once you're in our site show me the spot where you had three the citizen part that that part and if you look at Littleton they have a great website or even Groton air they it's too simple it's but that's what we want we we do want simple I agree Simplicity is good okay so I'm going to to the assessor Department okay yep instead of having it citizen information assessor toolbox assessed by location you can keep these three tabs with all the links move it down another tab in there no you can put a tab that says motor vehicle and you click on it and it goes right to the motor vehicle form you can put another tab that says a bait okay so I I could just take the whole form section and move it to the top guines but you but that's not simple they have to click on that and then they have to open and scroll and look for each form that that's that's not what they want to do they want to go to the site and be able to find motor vehicle I don't want to think I just want to find my motor vehicle tab I don't want to open another thing and wait for my slow internet connection to load okay I just want to find the Mot vehicle form by golly okay I can do I I don't know S I mean I don't know if car is going to be excited about it but we'll just tell her she's going to go do it I I just feel bad because I know she's got limited time and I don't want to keep and I know and I know you put so much into it it's just that the feedback is that we need to be more simple yeah yeah okay and we don't want people calling us cuz they can't find it no I don't they can't work can solve themselves better off you don't have the energy enough to do now you know I think she can probably get those in right under this and we you can still keep those three parts okay yes and then she gives us another whole section and then we have to go back to find yes that's what I was trying to say let at least give us a a a table of contents or something and she wouldn't do that but if if you if you make those tabs be the table contents for people I can you can you can shortcut that problem right and the thing of it is yeah okay I will go play with it again okay I know you put a lot into it you don't know oh I do I I saw the I saw the maps I know okay uh I will take the stab at it but I should go all I know is I'm seeking perfection and at the end of the day you're you going to have the best website of anybody in the state and then you're going to we're going to call Becky up I know we will yeah we're going to call Becky up and say we want recognition for this we want you to nominate us as an example of a really good website and then next thing you know you're going to be the queen of websites you'll be highly super highly regarded person and you can come back better turn it off come back to town and ask for more money okay so um I think we're set with the website okay we've got postpone topics which we will do I have anything stay in the postpone the next meeting is September 18th right and uh are there any closing comments from the public would you like to any closing com any closing comments from the board okay motion to adjourn thank you and I would like to compliment the chairman unnecessary yes second is I paper honorary a lot you did well