e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good morning calling our commission meeting to order at 9:01 a.m. this time we have our invocation and pledge um let's pray together heavenly father thank you for this time to come and discuss the business of the city Lin Haven I pray that you would endow us with wisdom knowledge and give us understanding in regards to the matters that we discuss uh help us to be civil and respectful um and help us to be filled with your spirit that we might speak your thoughts and your heart uh to one another continue to bless this city with uh your great blessings continue to give us abundance in wealth abundance in love abundance in prosperity thank you that we really do live in the best city in the Northwest Panhandle and thank you for everyone who contributes to a great quality of life for all of us in Christ's name we pray amen this time we have our public commentary Mr David Switzer morning City commission I'm seeking uh some facts and answers today in the last City commission meeting Pastor Chris prayed that our city commission would seek guidance from God and his wisdom part of that meeting held the following tones resentment name calling manipulation floating racism claims of free speech violations and jealousy all of that came from one person our mayor mayor you're an educated man so I assume you understand the need for sound reason and citing sources ask that you answer the following questions using that method resentment you said you were appalled and offended as an African-American that Jamie called an former NFL quarterback of POS almost seven years ago on a Facebook post he didn't even say piece of you know what he said POS the post was so offensive it got six likes three comments and one share why is that post so appalling and offensive to you what does it have to do with you being an African-American he claimed he allege there was a tent meeting in 2021 and a handful of people including Jamie discussed making changes to Lin Haven leadership he called him a liar when he denied it is Jamie a liar or are you site your source manipulation you vigorously repeated Lin Haven cannot live by a double standard and use Jam's post as an example let's compare Jim's post and Remy's text and see if there's a double standard you claim Jamie's post stated that poor leadership and ruined an organization and that the leader needed to be replaced with someone who would lead with standards matching his opinion of the Remy issue the post wasn't unethical or moral didn't lack values clearly nothing he posted needs an apology he tried to compare that with Ry sending immoral unethical homophobic texts that we're all sick of hearing about that he apologized for when exposed that's comparing apples and oranges Cherry Picked one line from his post and missed his point how's Jim's post wrong other than you think that it's wrong mayor you're not the standard of ly Haven and disagreeing with you does not even if it's contentiously does not create a standard for the city explain why you gash light Jimmy City Comm Jamie City commission and residence you floated racism you said you hope and believe you're not being treated differently because of your race but then in the same breath you questioned if your race was the reason citizens infringed on your freedom of speech I think you also said that the city or Community thinks that you're being treated differently because of your race and we need to be careful that's a serious claim that needs to be elaborated on what do you mean also do you believe your skin color is a motivation behind your perceived unfair treatment if so how to me it appears that the only thing wrong with your skin is it appears too thin for local politics and here's why you said you don't understand why residents violate your free speech and retaliate against you let me help you understand they don't the fact is people disagreed with you they interrupted you they called you names and we're rude to you thank you you can't handle that without throwing out wild accusations Mr Switz that's your time thank you okay all right thank you Miss Parker good morning I want to start out by saying um reading some of the comments that were made on the city of linh Haven post about last commission meeting only going to read a few of them because there's over 200 of them and I would say 99% of them are not for you unbelievable disgusting appointed disappointed by this mayor such an embarrassment to LY Haven yes war is a hero I have never witnessed such a childish Outburst from an elected official this was a disgraceful show of ER arrogance lack of decorum and Leadership skills from Nelson no one cares about the color of anyone's skin except for those who love to use color of their skin as a weapon to hide their corrupted narcissistic obuse nature this was not a display of morals and ethics it was simply a display of gaslighting manipulation and victimhood Nelson proved by his own actions what people have been stating all along he needs to be removed recalled for his seat Mr Nelson is bashing War again facade of decorum presented by the corrupted parasites of the Das was breached tonight and I say congratulations to all those who spoke out and will continue to speak out dumpster fire City attorney needs to clarify his freedom of speech as a private citizen vers a public official looks like the majority of the comments are against mayor's Behavior you have single-handedly made L Haven the laughing stock of Bay County shameful mayor is this mayor really behaving like this commissioner work investigated like the city and other Commissioners should have done he was betrayed and face planted for doing so doing right by the citizens and one other thing that I want to pull up um and discuss is when you said said that we had discussed um about Ricky and Ricky and um the um Police Department disbanding the police department that that part of it is totally untrue and if you can prove it show me the proof do I want Vicki and Ricky gone yes there's multiple reasons have I said that before yes and I will continue to say it was was am there when any of that was going on I don't know that was years ago did I hear him say something like that no thank you thank you Miss jod Moore good morning I'll repeat some of those things I hope you had a good vac mayor I'm here today because I had to wait two weeks to address in person some things that were said at the previous commission meeting when it comes to my sitting around talking about getting rid of Vicky Gainer and Ricky Ry and wanting a city clerk if I said that I don't deny it um I've said that you know and I've been very open about wanting those things so it's not really a big deal however I would never want to defund the police that is stupid I would never say that and I want to hear your evidence of that if you you threw out the accusation I'd like toar hear that I'd like to see the proof and when it comes to commissioner Jamie war and his supposed Colin kaeper neck statement I guess he did make it if that was so offensive to you mayor why didn't you say anything about it when commissioner War endorsed you for mayor last year and you didn't refuse the endorsement so it wasn't that offensive to you you said you had heard about it years ago I have devoted myself to making sure the truth gets told so I think it's pretty clear who's telling the truth and who are liars even though at the last commission meeting called being a liar and applied others and I are racist if you were trying to deflect detention from Ricky Ry you didn't succeed that issue is not going away now I have um some time left last time you said you could quote do this all day so I'll wait here if you want to address me before I sit down you can wait okay well I just don't want to sit down and then have comments and I don't I don't shout out from you know the seat so if you want to address anything with me here I have a minute and 20 seconds you can spend it how you like okay you don't have anything else to say to me no okay thank you then I'll sit down thank you Miss Christy McElroy Christie maroy Port St jab I wanted to address several things the Lin Haven corruption case is what brought me here I grew up in Panama City I've been in the Panhandle for 56 years after college could have gone other places I did not I stayed in the Panhandle the first document that you'll look at is from a 302 that Vicky Gainer made and utilized my name in that 302 and made false statements I'm not going to speak to the other people but from talking with them she also made false statements about them M I can assure you anyone that knows me I'm unconventional a little feral but I do nobody's bidding I came here because of your attorney who was over in Panama who was over in Port St Joe and was our attorney he was also doing conflict of interest things with the county attorney over in Gulf County and was also the magistrate over at Gulf County so that's what brought me here and then all this other stuff unfolded I can assure you I've had several conversations with Margo Anderson the longest is probably 20 minutes when I apologized to her because like most people I thought she was guilty but she wasn't and she showed nothing but Grace in that Federal courtroom so I went to her because I can humble myself and say when I'm wrong and I deeply and sincerely apologize to marot that was probably the longest conversation I've ever had with her although I do know some of her family members who are wonderful people if you look at the next item that is stapled separately it concerns Michael Gordon and the targeting from your police chief an molon after his arrest and they tried to say he didn't show up to pre-trial parole meetings or whatever well so they were going to go pick him up so you look at those text messages the next item oh he also calls Michael Gordon a so make sure you pick that up the last item that I'll go over today is thank youning your chief of police chief Goose he's an embarrassment and please stop stop ex exporting your trash here in Bay County to Gulf County thank you right any additional public commentary yes sir good morning um I'm up here not to um make noise which some of the Commissioners think we're supposed to do and I'm not here to finish off the Triad and four people that you have labeled consistantly as being against you um a long time ago when I joined the US government I learned one thing when you sit on panels and you address it as an official officer and especially with promotions you do not reference the individual you do not reference by name just say subject therefore from now on in I will never address and I have never done it by name anybody that I feel is making a mistake which is an employee which I never do or a commissioner I will mention their title or their position within the government if you want to if I make an accusation if you want to assume a name to go with that that's your problem not mine I'm just saying their office and them demonstrating a job in their office is incorrect so remember this is not and what happened in the years before was this was interpreted to be personal it's not personal it's professional we're asking you for advice we're asking for your staff for advice answers the questions I'm not attacking them I'm not attacking them I'm asking him are you doing your job it was mentioned from this commission the fact that you want to reestablish your credibility with the citizens if you believe any American citizen believes wholeheartedly 100% in their government and I've got a bridge to sell you from New York never are we always going to agree we have the right to disagree that will be professional that will be with courtesy you have remarked about that and I appreciate that mayor remember what we say what we say professional not targeted at a name targeted at your position and your job thank you very much thank you additional public commentary this time we move on to the mayor's report we have a proclamation for Americans with Disabilities and it reads whereas National disability Independence Day Comm commemorates the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act 8 on July 26 1990 the Ada provides protection from employment discrimination as well as better access to Goods services and Communications for people with disabilities and whereas the day not only celebrates the anniversary of the Ada but it also serves several other purposes the first the law first broke down barriers that individuals with disabilities fa every day and over time common areas became accessible to wheelchairs including Braille sign and crosswalks for the vision impaired improving mobility and safety and whereas Beyond structural changes the Americans with Disabilities Act motivated designers to enhance technology that often restricted a person's ability to access legal or health information with new assistive Technologies making it easier to obtain the necessary information and whereas as accessibility improves the world continues to change in other ways many of today's brick and mor of businesses are ADA Compliant however as more and more businesses switch to online versions their websites need to include technology that incorporates multi-functional approaches to fit every ability and whereas we encourage all employers and designers to consider how accessible their business is to people with disabilities the Ada empowers and encourages people with disabilities to stand up for their rights and to give shout outs to accessible businesses and organizations by using disability Independence Day hashtag and sharing on social media now therefore by the virtu and Authority invested in me as mayor of the city of Lin Haven on behalf of the city commission and all the citizens of linh Haven we do hereby declare the proclamation as follows that the city Commission of the city of linh Haven calls Upon Our citizens public and private institutions businesses and schools to affirm the principles of equality and inclusion for persons with disabilities to celebrate the freedom the Ada inspires with Forward Thinking design and technology and to bring forth the promise of hope and freedom that is envisioned by the passage of the Ada and that the city commission and all citizens of Lin Haven do hereby recognize July 26 2024 the 34th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act that passed in 1990 as National disability Independence Day signed on this 11th day of July 2024 um in regards to the public commentary that was addressed towards me I know Mr Switzer you and I have emailed back and forth so if you're available today after this meeting we can meet and uh follow on your questions in regards to the other questions regarding my statements there are um news links uh if you're looking for evidence all right that's my report for today commissioner pebles turn the mic on thank you mayor so uh just want to say it was an honor to be part of the parade uh that was a lot of fun um my arms are still sore from throwing all that candy and I loved every second of it seeing all the smiling faces from all the fames uh great turnout to the parade a lot of families even though it was crazy hot people still showed up and showed out and it was awesome thank you to to all the staff and everyone that made that happen I mean there there was so many staff working in in that heat and uh I really do appreciate it I think that um I think that the citizens and people around the city of Glen Haven really do appreciate all the work that you put into that uh and I can say with the fireworks uh when I went the the whole show from start to finish uh I would say without exaggeration that's probably the best firework display and and show that I've been a part of since I've lived in Lin Haven so um kudos to everyone that made that happen it was really awesome my family had a great time uh even though it got dark at 9:00 at night I and my kept my kids up really late for that and they really enjoyed it um Sumer hours are crazy all right so uh I also want to thank um Mr uh Greg fi for applying for the financial review community so thank you Mr fith for doing that uh for stepping up to the plate and being part of that Committee of course technically still have to vote on it but just the fact that you put your name in the Hat um that that's I I just want to say thank you for that uh so many of you reached out to me about last meeting um I think it's important that our meetings have order and fairness um that includes us up here all of us uh in order for us as a commission to do our main goal which is what's doing best for the citizens of the city we must not be divided uh I have faith going forward that we can all work together as a team regardless of if we see eye to ey I think that's important I think in our society there's a misconception that that to be part of a team you must agree on everything or that if you don't agree with everything then you're going against the team and I truly believe that neither one of those statements are true we can disagree in fact I think it's good to disagree uh being respectful and disagreeing is the key disagreeing is healthy it forces us to think logically it forces us to do research and it helps us see things from different angles that's why we have five people on the commission because we have five people from five different walks of life that see things from different uh points of view um we must be a team and our main goal of doing what's right for the citizens and what's right for the city that's our main goal and uh as two of the greatest men uh that in in history have said that A House Divided will fall so I think that um I agree with them that yes we're not going to see ey ey on things but we should um not let deter that from let that deter us we need to still have that team mentality um make sure we're not divided and do what's right for both the city and the citizens thank you right thank you commissioner perno thank you mayor um uh commissioner peoples agree with everything you said about the Fourth of July great it was it was fun to be on there except it was it was a big old float and it was just two of us I'm thanking Chris life's daughter got on there and threw with us but my arm was also sore the next day um I just I just don't think that um the employees can do any better than what they did this year the way we put put on the parade um I know there was there was a lot of comments about about the uh about the uh Flash Pad not being open but y'all y'all give everything you got to get that parade going and and and the day before and the day of and I know that the timing wasn't good for the closing of the king Griffin splash pad and um I I know the city's I know the reason why but I just wanted to State publicly along with a big thank you to everybody that sometimes you got to you got to get one thing to do in another great thing so and then um I had a lot of comments from people about our last meeting um and and I got a lot of phone calls I've been to a lot of these meetings Mr Walker I know you have to and and the people that come regularly uh I I appreciate everything you you do and say at meetings um there's there's you know there's dissenting opin iions all the way up to the Supreme Court but decisions are made and and things have to flow um I don't want to re rehash or relive last meeting you know but um I I want to move forward with due process and finish finish what we voted to start on on on the on the chief Ry issue and that's all I'm going to say because we've we we stood by as we've agreed um by the the council that's that's advised us so I'm I'm I'm firm on that um and uh I'm thankful to everybody to have an opinion and and I'm thankful to be in the city of Lin Haven and that's my report thank you commissioner Ward uh I don't really have a whole lot um just let everyone know the reason I'm not there is because had Unexpected death in the family so I'm going to be out of the local area for a little while and just uh looking forward to coming back to Lin Haven later this month thank you right thank you commissioner benig gri um I don't want to rehash last week but I I do want to apologize to the citizens of Lin Haven um our job is to move this city forward you know we want to you know maintain our status of being a safe uh beautiful city and so I think that's what we need to concentrate on is is moving this city forward um I am sorry that I did not attend the 4th of July my husband was in the hospital so I saw I thought I needed to be with him but I've heard great things from all over B accounting about uh The linh Haven activities so it's not not just our linh Haven residents that benefited it was all of Bay County and uh I know that our citizen I our staff workers work very very hard and I also want to congratulate them I agree with uh Mr peoples uh that is true A House Divided doesn't accomplish much and so we have to remember that we want to work for the benefit of our citizens in the city thank you city [Music] manager warrantless good morning you have questions about the warrant list I I do yes ma'am um I'm sorry I didn't call you earlier in um Broadway Trucking that's the dumb truck and we're still continuing to pay green South Solutions yes ma'am I know Mr L is sick and tired of me asking about that um he's sick of me asking about it as well is this going to be a continuing issue it is not to the extent of of what you've seen in the last couple of months right thank you thank you thank you Kiki uh just couple of things feedback I've gotten um PL through our calls and lots of people stopped me on Fourth of July to thank thank us in the city for a really great day we start that event at 500 a.m. in the morning and some of us you know we out there to 10 11:00 at night we do it because we love the city and we want the very best for our residents um thank the staff they are awesome we all work together pitch in and make it work uh that's what it's all about we are a team we're tired but we're a team and uh we work for this city and and we're blessed to work for this city so I just want to thank everyone for coming out for July 4th and sorry you two I I saw you two over there um throwing candy and I knew it was going to be a long day for you guys uh throwing candy there but you got it done uh and so we thank everyone that participated in that day entire day we estimated probably about 10,000 people came out to kenas that night uh probably had about anywhere from 7 to 8,000 at the parade uh so it's a it's a great day for the city of L Haven um fall registration is open for Fall Ball uh currently we have kids signing up for volleyball and they can sign up on the city website uh remember that there is a comprehensive plan Workshop facilitated by Dr chapen of Florida State University along with Amanda she'll be here as well to answer any questions on July the 16th at 5:00 p.m. uh the Boys and Girls Club will open for registration for after school care on July the 18th I encourage citizens that live here in the city of L Haven to go on and register they were already booked uh solid for the summer for the summer program so if you're looking for after school care our boys and girls club in uh our gym at the recreation center will start that registration for after school care on July the 18th something that um CR director and the former fire chief started working on and now the new far Chief uh Chief Baba theyve come to um finish is that a tra traffic signal uh override will be installed for the fire department as you know uh the going highway 77 390 is has gotten pretty congested uh any emergency they're going to have a time getting through there they want to be able to get to you or citizens as fast as possible so being stalled By The Bay County um next week uh this will help them to be able to control that traffic and get through the traffic uh easier you know put a red light on so they can move through we're pretty uh excited about that uh so you'll look probably see some folks out working but this will happen within the next couple of weeks and just wanted to to make you aware of that and uh mayor that is my report all right thank you uh and thank you to you and all the staff and the volunteers that um ensured that we had another great Fourth of July celebration um I too was away and was not able to attend the 4th of July which is always a a great time usually on the float having to remind commissioner per not to throw all the candy out on the uh the First Street um so uh it's always always a great time of of Celebration um I was actually in uh Boston doing some re research there and completing my my PhD had a chance to research at uh at Harvard University and so we say our access to our libraries here is a lot easier than having access to the Harvest libraries it took uh a preapplication plus a 2hour interview looping around the campus session to get the card I needed to actually get access to the library um and then even the doors are locked so if you don't have a card you just can't walk in so the Privileges we have here at the Bay County library and our other surrounding libraries Florida State Gul Coast Library I mean we we're very fortunate um for that to have open access public access to our libraries here but while I was there I did get a chance with my family to attend um their fourth of July um celebration and I have to say I think hours is better um not just cuz I'm the the mayor of Lin Haven but actually our firework show lasted longer um there started 5 minutes late and ended 5 minutes early so our fireworks show actually lasted longer than uh the Boston fireworks show now they had a few more people about a half a million people were there but um I think we still had a better fireworks and a different diversity um of activities for our community here so um Kudos and and great job once again on having best Fourth of July celebration um in Northwest Florida and the best fireworks that I've seen you know throughout our nation um one thing I would like for us to consider um I think we might have talked about this maybe a couple of years ago and of course we've had some uh other focal focal points that we've been been looking at but um the courts there at Moet um if we could maybe schedule a time to talk with um superintendent McQueen maybe the principal there at M middle and of course staff and yourself about possibly what would it take for us to convert those into maybe tennis pickleball courts something that um our citizens in that area could have access to um in the evening time I know we have some more pickle ball courts coming over um I think in in the rot in the uh Belair area but it you know I think it'd be good to have some there the the times I have gone out to the sports complex those are slammed um you know waiting lines uh of people so it's possible that that will help maybe especially in the evening time um take some of the traffic to another area so it just won't be all compact at the sports complex May if I may um as you mentioned just now I I did speak with some ladies who who consistently play the pickle ball and have actually set up the schedule so people can play to 11 and get off and come on so everybody who shows up gets a chance to play and they they they did um they did ask me to and and I'm sorry I didn't mention this in my report they did ask me to uh to ask if it was possible the outdoor basketball courts are not right there by our pickle ball Courts at Sports Complex are not on on the outdoor part are not um they're not they're not being accessible or they're they're accessible but not being used as much as the pickle ball so they said is there if there's any way they could put markings on the on on the basketball courts there's two basketball courts out there and if there was any way to paint them for pickle ball that they can actually utilize them because there's a demand for pickle ball and they were wondering about U about they thought it was great about belir do you know getting the pickleball courts but there's very little parking there and they don't want to overwhelm the neighborhood when the pickleball courts get there cuz people show up to play pickle ball man they do mayor I do want to just have Justin about the outdoor courts because then we have a fight on our hand with our basketballers Justin yeah so um there's definitely a demand for pickle ball um biggest issue with that we have approached possibly trying to stripe the basketball courts is just as now that kids are out of school that actually utilize the courts so you can't know you know predict when they're going to go to the courts so how do you tell one who you know is allowed to play at that time I think the pickle ballers they get their they get their pickle ball time is like during it's it's in the morning U like when the when you open up inside for pickle ball and they don't they said that that they don't really get the opportunity to you know play off you know off work schedule hours and they said they just to me you know it's a question of the the basketball people are inside playing and that that there's not really much outdoor activity that it's said for basketball but I I'm not there so but so we host our scheduled activities in the afternoon so when people get out of school they would utilize the outdoor course because we're having our volleyball basketball league and indoors so all of those kids or adults that cannot play indoors they move to the outdoor courts so I just think you know us giving them an outlet to play on the outdoor basketball courts it would kind of clash yes they do utilize those courts just I I know they think people don't but they absolutely do utilize I'm just glad y'all brought it up cuz I I was talking to some ladies and I want I told him I'd mention it so it was just I needed to chime in you know what I'm saying no problem um so yeah if we could uh look at that as an option for expanding our our pick a ball and uh and looking at those those more courts as an option all right um City attorney all right this time moving on to our consent agenda is there anything that we would like to pull off the consent agenda right is there a motion for it a motion to approve second all right motion by commissioner Peebles second by commissioner perno city manager if you call the vote commissioner pebles yes commissioner perno yes commissioner War yes commissioner Vander Griff yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed has old business quas du just so public hearing at 9:39 or 9:40 [Music] a.m. um cly attorney right so as this is a qu judicial hearing if you're going to even the developer team or any affected parties if you raise your right hand if you're going to present any testimony today it's where to tell the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth I do and obviously if there was any exp party communication with developer team you guys can disclose that now that obviously last night wasn't exp par day we were all here together at a workshop so you don't need to disclos that after the meeting last night I did speak to the developer because there was a there you know the TP um in their in their in their priority plan they they did list um a widening for a four laning of 389 from Baldwin to 390 and there is some funding there for it so I mentioned it to the developer that it might be a way of researching just you know in the same scenario that the mil Bayou issue came up and then we're the the widening project U um reinforced the U the intersection of ko Road and the intersection of 389 and 390 put the extra turn Lanes in and so forth and we we appealed to them when we were having the issue um with the with the arbor um uh apartment comp comp Lex coming in so um so I thought maybe the developer could contact do and and and you know cuz you're going to put in a turn lanane but then couple years down the road they're going to forlane the road so you know it might be a possibility where do can step in and and maybe help fortify that intersection um I was going to request or let you know that there has been a request from the developer this morning um to be allowed to have a continuance on this item and table it again while they do research on some other possibilities that is a request that I've had this morning and that he is here if you would like to um have him explain yes thank you morning uh I was thinking the meeting was this evening so I apologize for the attire I would have went home and changed and more presentable but uh wanted to thank you guys very much uh for taking up this matter because of all the input that was that workshop last night was very productive in our opinion um we're still very excited about this project and it's moving forward we wanted with some of the input that we've received uh about the dot um we just feel like if if it is okay with you guys um if y'all want to take it up that's of course in uh up to you guys but if it would help uh for us to have more of our ducks in a row just to table it for one this meeting and then rejourn next meeting is everyone okay with that I am yeah I mean I think what we've done you we've opened the public hearing I think if you we just do a motion to you know hold the hearing open continue it to um if the next meeting is fine yes sir you don't need more than time than that yeah just hold the public hearing open continue it to the next meeting as long as we announce that today we don't have to read advertise or anything obviously it'll be on the agenda I'll make the motion as stated by the attorney is there a second I'll second right uh any comments from the public city the manager if you call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner Vander yes commissioner War yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed July 23rd yes 5:30 yeah for the 5:30 meeting so we'll omit um agenda item number 18 for today and move move to new business discussion and possible approval to set the proposed millage rting hearings date pursuant to the trim act director Finance again good morning each year I come to you with a calendar and a proposed millage rate this is the first step in the budgeting process and required by the trim act uh the calendar states that we'll be having our meeting on September 10th with the workshop included as part of the uh scheduled meeting and the second public hearing will be on September 24th also the workshop will be part of the public meeting these um do these are your regular scheduled dates we did not have to move it around because of Bay County or the school district so those are your regular dates they both will start at 5:30 in the afternoon in September though also part of the pack package is the proposed millage rate which of course is the absolute maximum we can charge last year I brought you 4.23 we ended up at 4.0 this year I'm bringing you 4.2 I don't have enough information from the state yet to tell you if that's going to be where we're going to have to land they have not published any of their estimates for our revenues from the the state so I'm working with incomplete numbers and just for clarification uh though you propose 4.2 we can always go lower we can only go lower we cannot go higher so that's why um Mrs Gainer and I discussed this is the absolute Max we could possibly need okay and we will of course do everything we can to limit that truly I'm I'm waiting on the state additional questions from the commission I do so uh in the agenda package down there I think it's the first page it's showing like the roll back rate and how much uh we got last year and the projected this year so is that just strictly a projection it's not based on anything the state has given yet or the page with the red printing on it is that what you're asking about uh the one right above it with all the like math and everything well these are the T these are the actual forms that are filed with the state okay so those are real numbers that are on those forms with the exception of the 4.2 if we change the 4.2 then all the calculations are redone okay um so I know again that this is and thank you for uh explaining it so well last year about how this is like the mayor said this is just the maximum this is not this does not mean that 4.2 is what we're going with um so I just also want to reiterate to that anyone that's listening just because it says 4.2 that doesn't mean that we're going to 4.2 correct um but while we're in this phase I kind of wanted to have open the discussion a little bit I ran some of the numbers based on uh my my opinion on it all um as you know last year I was a big proponent of uh and what we ultimately did so thank you for all the work you did on it we ultimately went from 4.1 into 4.0 um but based on the form that was uh that we were talking about the the the gross income we got from from the millage rate last year at a 4.0 rate was $6.4 million and based on the roll back rate which means um if we would have this year then uh if if we would have done 3.75 this year we would have got the same amount as last year which obviously with inflation you wouldn't do 3.75 that's that's ridiculous um but of course inflation needs to be factored into that math right so that's why of course we're not going at 375 that's why you'll get the roll back but if we kept the millage rate at what it is right now at 4.0 then we would still see an increase of 6.5% in our total income uh that's about an extra $400,000 from last year that what we got this year based on the numbers on that sheet and uh with the national average of inflation being about 2 to 3% per year um I was like well yeah but inflation's been pretty bad the past few years so I went and researched um what the national inflation has been over the past few years in 2002 was really high it was like 6 or 7% but in 2023 inflation was at 3.4% and currently this year in 2024 it's at 3.33% well if we leave the mill rate at four we're still having an increase in our revenue of 6.25% which is well above the inflation rate so just keep in mind that I just wanted to run that math by you all that um unless something changes from the state if we kept the millage rate the same we're still going to end up ahead um So based on the the new uh construction and and raising of the evaluation of homes and you know every everyone even if you have a homestead exemption you're still your taxable value goes up 3% per year so um yeah so just just want to throw out there that 4.0 we're still looking at a win we' still be above inflation may I add one bit of information to that when I do my calculations I use the Bay County inflation rate which is running at about 4% with the last numbers that I pulled okay thank you um that's awesome thank you right any additional questions for director Finance is there a motion to approve the to set the proposed millage rate and the hearing dates pursuant to the trim act just a question so both those meetings on September 10th and 24th are at 5:30 yes ma'am and September 10th will be our first opportunity to discuss this issue Mrs G has instructed me to set meetings with each of the Commissioners individually so like we did have done in the past okay thank you any additional [Music] questions is there a motion for this I'd so move second all right motion by commissioner V Griff second by Comm perno any comments from the public yes [Music] sir Rich W up um one one point um it's been noted over the years that the meeting held to set the trim and all that was too late you waited too long almost to the day that it had to actually to the hour it had to be submitted to sa so um I would I would take a little concern of very good on the meeting date setting a date that you're going to discuss this to make sure that you hit and give to people enough time to discuss it over a length of period before the due date which is in September if you get the meeting ready and get it done that that the information gets to S not exactly on the minute and it's been that way uh what the advice would be is to make sure you had all your ducks in the order before that due date that we mean that you're meeting yes there's going to be changes you're going to have to do at the last minute you're going to do that at your meetings but it was very close and the people didn't have a good chance to chime in uh so the date of the submission of the trim notices to sou should be thought of give you a little lead time for your people and you to sit down and discuss it you understand what I'm trying to get at that's what we're doing that's what we're doing today is submitting it for trim that's exactly which is early why but what we're doing today is submitting that Max millage rate so it goes on the trim notice so that's being done today yeah September is the final you know the final adoption it's it's not yeah I gather that yes I I understand that it's just you're leading into it okay but what I'm getting at is when you get ready to submit it to the county S that uh you don't have to wait till the last minute it's very close you you have to have two public hearings regardless right and so that's the reason we we have to do that one of the things we're doing this year mayor instead of doing an um a workshop by itself so that people can uh come we're doing that on September the 10th inside the commission meeting so people know those dates ahead of time the first workshop for the um uh budget is September the 10th at 5:30 so there's not a separate one people normally come to commission meeting they already be here to hear that Workshop go through that budget very very well so I think and then we we we approve the final one at the second meeting so that's time for people to ask questions and come back make any changes that will need to be made that second shirt Workshop will be inside the commission meeting so there's nothing separate and people don't feel like they can make it it's doing our regular commission meeting times so I hope I understand that but what happened in the last past was we went down to the last minute I just we went down to the last minute of submitting it yeah and I I don't think that's and I do understand what you're saying Mr Walker um I think the conflict with us moving the we will either have to have those meetings in August um or we also have that Labor Day I think laps that creates the challenge for us having it earlier in September so I do understand what you're saying I think that's the challeng is do we have it in August um or do we have it in September and having it in September allows us to get more uh data as it relates to the budget so that we can get more information on submission I think that's why we probably you know end up cutting closer to the deadline versus moving it earlier into August for that time yeah a little more lead type and remember we cannot have public hearings before the county or the school board so that's part of that problem as well you you have until the deadline is September 30th to do your final budget so I me we're still two weeks ahead of that thank you right thank you sir yes the schedules are very tight please let me assure you we have never missed a deadline since I've been here all of the paperwork has been submitted within the required time frames um so the pressure is on my department to make sure all of that happens right thank you um additional public comments right there's a motion to approve the proposed millage rate and the hearing dates pursuant to the trim act um city manager if you call the vote commissioner vandagriff yes commissioner perno yes commissioner PE yes commission War yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed discussion and possible approval of uh most qualified bidder for the fdot funded Tennessee Avenue sidewall project for Engineering Services to do be engineering as the most qualified bidder all right so you the May we're actually at item 20 oh my bad I checked that one already sorry about that we yeah check 19 I was wondering why you were standing up I'm like you're not the director of CRA so um number 20 possible in discussion of possible approval of the task order with duberry uh for 55,000 so unfortunately these this is one of the other unfunded mandates set forth by EPA or D um this leaden copper rule revision came about in 2021 uh the city began working on it with a vendor called 120 water we've got an initial inventory established however we've got to take this on to the next steps and uh complete the work so that we can submit to D um The Proposal before you is for $55,000 and this will complete the lead um inventory and then we will submit everything to DP by the deadline in October and then move forward with our lead and copper replacement plan all right thank you are there any questions from Mr Lightfoot all right is there a motion for this so moved second right uh comments from the [Music] public right City manag you call the vote commissioner vff yes commission pno yes commissioner peoples yes commissioner War yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed now agenda item number 21 good morning um this item is in regards to the sidewalk project um that we're working on for Tennessee Avenue um if you recall this is a project that was uh funded 100% by an fdot Grant uh City staff uh submitted or issued an RFQ for the Engineering Services the city received uh uh three quotes for for the Engineering Services of this project one of the uh proposals was um incomplete and therefore considered non-responsive the two remaining um proposals were reviewed by a Review Committee and you see this in the agenda packet um it appears that the most qualified uh engineering firm for for this project is duberry engineering so we're here today to request U approval of um the most qualified um engineering firm for this engineering project okay um there are questions from the commission oh yes I just have one question um the city's not paying any of this this is all being paid by sbot correct that is correct thank you all right additional questions uh pretty close these two firms are like one point apart so and this is qualifications right yes and and just just to clarify as part of the procurement process there is absolutely zero communication between the reviewer so yes it is closed but those are the numbers I'm not going back to the reviewers and asking them hey can you look at this because it's it looks really close it is what it is fact is that that duber was the most qualified based on the numbering on the scoring all right are there any additional questions anything commissioner Vandergriff right any additional questions commissioner perno no sir all right is there a motion for this move motion to approve all right motion by commissioner Vander Griff second by commissioner War right is there any comments from the public see a minut if you call the vote commissioner Vander yes yes commissioner War yes commissioner perno yes commissioner pebles yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed um discussion only about waste water wa water and wastewater rate increases um the finance Review Committee has met twice I have presented a couple of different scenarios to them they have forwarded on a recommendation to you commissioner War when I first returned you asked if the increases that I had recommended last year were going to be sufficient for this year my answer today is no uh we have experienced an emergency at the water treatment plant you've heard me quote $782,000 that was not calculated in my numbers for last year I have recalculated come up with again I gave them several different options they chose one what I will tell you is the options that I gave them again did not not include any emergencies so I have concerns about the sewer budget we have an aging infrastructure it needs maintenance it needs significant Improvement we are doing everything to cut the budget so I absolutely understand that I support that Citywide but I do have concerns that next year I may come to you or who's ever in this position comes to you and says we've had yet another emergency that was not budgeted and the increase for the following year will be even greater all that being said um they have uh voted and agreed to recommend to you what I have labeled as option 2B we are not recommending any increase on the water sides what I had recommended to you last year is sufficient for the water department so that's a 15 cent increase per 1,000 gallons the sewer side per my earlier statements we will have a $150 in sorry $157 increase th000 gallons which will mean for a average home would be $860 cents a month for the commercial side again no additional increase to what I recommended last year 15 cents per thousand gallons of water on the sewer for commercial the committee decided that they wanted the commercial to Bear more responsibility for these increases and they recommended that we go to $11 a gallon per 1,000 gallons of sewer and that would mean $19.52 for a business that uses 5,000 gallons a month Mrs Gainer asked me to also include my original document from last year they're the ones with the water mark on the angle so you can see what we talked about last year versus what we're talking about this year questions yes so uh if I recall when we when the when we discussed the water and sewage rate increase um believe it was on a proposed scale so that we could stop borrowing money from Peter to pay Paul as related to you know our our funding um are we is this what you're proposing is this still part of that scale that was initially discussed so two things we have stopped the transfers between the Enterprise funds we are no longer taking money out of Sanitation to fund sewer I'm trying to give you numbers that tell you exactly what it costs to run the sewer department not what's left over after the other Enterprise funds chip in so those transfers have stopped the other thing is the proposals that we have here I was directed by the finance Review Committee with a fiveyear time span last year they told me they wanted the budget balanced in five years that's what happened with the sheets that have the diagonal waterm mark this year The Proposal that I have in front of you the 2B actually extends one more year we're using now the rolling five-year concept rather than here we were going to be done in fiscal 28 now each year whenever this is brought to you it'll be the next rolling five years what is also included here is the first year of debt service for the Expansion Project that's part of the increase um Mr Lightfoot can give you more information about when he anticipates that to start but for my calculations I included the very first year of debt service for an srf loan for $50 million starting in fiscal 29 and that that does answer my second question which would be is any of this actually helping towards the expansion um one years Debt Service for a 20year Sr srf loan got it so we're in some ways planning ahead with this increase towards um that expansion yes sir um my second question would be I know earlier um or third question really uh earlier commissioner Peebles made reference to the um to the millage rate you know staying at 4.0 4.2 being currently proposed at 4.2 dropping a 4.0 in regards to the debt servicing would this be less impactful um or I guess is the only way that we can fund the expansion is only way we can fund that is that through the actual Department itself correct that's apples and oranges so the trim money is for general fund which is a governmental agency the Enterprise funds the utilities are set up like for lack of a better word their accounting is more attuned to a for-profit business right they they are completely separate entities I do understand that part my question is so none of the money that we take from our millage rate none of the millage can go to the utility y okay so the only way that we can get citizens or not necessarily get citizens the only way that we can actually plan ahead is what we're doing now is by increasing rates for sewage is the only way that we can sort of plan towards the future then well we're ALS we're planning ahead but we're also still playing catchup for the years that there were no increases correct um and I understand the rationale at the time we were running through emergencies and people were hurting but now we're in inflationary times as we discussed earlier the costs to the city are rising um hauling is rising the the Sledge removal is rising everything is rising and we the city can no longer absorb those costs we have to pay them or pass them on to the end user okay um and you mentioned emergencies so we have this increase or propos increase right um and it includes a one year of debt servicing towards a $20 million loan on a proposed $50 million expansion however what happens if we have an emergency will that actually eat into that one year of debt servicing that we're hoping to gain from this increase or is that or you also if I'm still here or if my U replacement is here we're going to have this exact same conversation next year and I would assume every year following I understand that I guess let me clarify my question so we're increasing rates so if I go to a citizen and say Hey you know we need to have that $50 million expansion may be a little easier for us to increase this rate so that we can all sort of you know add to that 50 million expansion have a less you know overall debt ratio for our city but then an emergency comes up and then let's say three years from now we're wondering okay did we spend that money that we thought that we were going to be putting towards debt servicing on that emergency so because we're not putting anything aside for an emergency if another $700,000 emergency occurs and we have let's say a million dollar set aside for that one-year debt servicing from the increase would that 700,000 be taken from that 1 million yes because of that short answer yes it's the short answer got it all right any other questions for director Finance or for Mr L foot are is our sanitation fund still healthy enough that during an emergency we could pull from that you can pull from Enterprise prise right is it healthy yes it is the healthiest of the utilities do I recommend doing that absolutely not okay but worst case scenario yes yes you can do that all right any additional any questions commissioner [Music] war no sir I uh appreciate the update thank you all right commissioner VRE uh a couple of questions um on the 782,000 is that um the accumulation of the money that we've paid to have the pond cleaned out it's $189,000 for the pond liner $150,000 for the uh the labor to pump the pond and the rest is for the pumping were we in violation of something and that's the reason we had to have it done CHR is GNA say oh no she's rection right that the replace the rejection Pond reject pond at the Wastewater Plant and the answer to your question yes ma'am that the reject Pond is is designed for any affluent leaving the plant that does not meet your expectations of your treatment it's supposed to divert the water into that and then reintroduce it into the treatment stream over the years because of the lack of the centerfuse and the lack of the the previous contractor being able to haul sludge they had to divert sludge to the pond which is not what it's designed for so it had about 5T of sludge in the pond that had to be removed U because it had taken up capacity of the reject storage so we had to remove the sludge first time the pond had been empty since at least 2012 um and then that exposed the damage to the liner that had to be repaired the reason I'm asking that question is because I've had several questions from citizens about did we have to do that now and that's the reason I'm asking now yes ma'am and while I have you up here uh at what level is the um the sewage plant at now capacity wise consistently we've been around 76% okay because last night at the workshop that was uh some discussion you know uh what's the impact on these developments on our uh and a number to keep in mind for that Engineers use typically 200 to 350 gallons a day per single family home for a sewage capacity so we're not at 110% we are at 78% capacity around 76% consistent 76 thank all right thank you hi couple more questions yes ma'am you mentioned the possibly a loan by 2029 did you beginning the loan in 2029 Mr Lightfoot has told me that we it's possible we could start the expansion in fiscal 28 typically they give you a grace period after you sign the documents it's it's a lengthy process to get approval for these loans and I would suggest that sooner is better than later um but after the construction starts I assume that it would be 12 months before we started the payments and this is an srf loan State revolving fund at what percent do you think 1.3 is what I calculated it at which is what we're one of our existing srf loans is right now so um we have to work toward making the payment as part of our debt service on that $50 million correct right so just a a a couple of things clarification once you when you do srf loans there is anywhere from 25 to 50% forgiveness on those loans okay yeah that's part of that the possibility it's a possibility a possibility the second thing with f srf loans is the percentage is very low sometimes as low as 8.9% on those loans yeah um so it comes from the state state revolving funds is where it comes from so we want to to make you aware of that as well so if the state is healthy sometimes they feel like forgiving what what do we have to do to be forgiven they'll never they never guarantee it but they always okay they hint around it but I mean we it's kind of like when we took out the $5 million loan from Community disaster from FEMA they don't always tell you you they're going to do it but every single City says they will forgive that loan sure enough a year later later it was forgiven that was $5 million off the the books that's all did you have any questions just just um just to clarify your your your rate increase um you're you're suggesting to go a year ahead like to take 26 increase and make it 20 5 is that when you when you rais the commercial rate to $11 a gallon or or am I not following correctly so if you look at the page at the bottom it says option to be ending in fiscal 2029 not sure in which page three yeah um on the on the commercial side right yeah I assume you're asking about commercial and at the bottom the block at the bottom of the uh page should say option 2 be ending in fiscal 2029 is that what you're looking at and then in green it says commercial fiscal 25 proposed adjustment including pond maintenance and 24 um mind if I step forward and show you I just didn't I just didn't see $11 a gallon I saw 826 oh okay okay that would be TV okay that would be starting October one I was watching I was watching under under oh yeah okay y be $3.75 just just just for the sake of the public the whole the percentage of capacity Mr life foot if I'm not correct me if I'm wrong but you have to have a plan in place by the time we're at 75% capacity correct right and that is what the city had agreed to in the past was in fiscal year 2024 we would start the expansion which is you know why we put the RFQ out and then signed the contract with M McDonald uh to start that expansion per D statutes right and per the law yeah we have to you we have to have a plan in place when we get to that capacity yes sir any other questions um mayor and also just a reminder is that the debt has been paid down from the sewer so the debt was eating up a lot of the sewer money so we have continued to pay that debt down in the sewer to get the sewer healthy enough so that we can borrow total debt for the city at the end of this fiscal year will be 38 million so that's a good thing and I guess if we you know continue to have a healthy sewer and increase uh not necessarily the rates but our development increases then if once we take that $50 million loan uh then the sewer fund will actually be able to take care of itself in regards to paying that that is absolutely the goal that is correct and let's I got one more thing so you also like these new town homes right if they come in they're going to be paying impact fees and those impact fees would go towards part of it would go towards could go towards sewage yes there are dedicated sewer impact fees those are um obviously meant for expansion um city and manager and I have had discussions about that money uh about what's in the balance today uh she and I have disagreement on how that money should be used uh we're working on the sewer budget as we speak we are using some currently there we are using some impact fees to operate the sewer plant um in creative ways for next year I tend to be very fiscally conservative I think that's a good thing in my role my recommendation would be that we take all of this impact fees and use it for the headworks project and or the expansion thereby the loan would be less money that's my personal opinion clearly it's City manager's responsibility to make the decision all right thank you right thanks so of course we'll have further discussion and decisions to make in regards about the water and waste waterer rate increases with a look to the Future um of how those can positively um impact our debt uh moving forward uh now we have another discussion about rates before we leave on water and SE I think part of it today was just to get some direction obviously if we're going to do these increases for starting October 1 we'll need to you know do a rate resolution and do the increases it'll go on the utility bill for one cycle and then maybe come back in in October so I think staff was just looking for direction if you guys are good with 2B we'll get the resolution ready get it advertised and then you guys would actually have aop the resolution to actually increase the rates so I think we just need a direction on which what rates to put in there so if you guys are okay with 2B that's what we'll start with we don't need to vote today we just wanted some direction because we do have to do these rate increases got it that wasn't clarified to us yeah all right uh any feedback from the Commission in regards to increasing the rates or keeping them the same or going with obviously when we when we have that resolution it'll be a hearing you guys can always change it that that point in time but you know just direction for getting the stuff drafted and getting it advertised start with 2B I would suggest that we start with 2B and listen to our citizens as far as what we're what we're hearing so that's that we have time and this is what the financial Review Committee suggested right Tob yeah we met uh Wednesday morning and they came up with this commissioner V Griff how many uh businesses will this affect do you know uh with 500 commercial accounts that's what said yesterday there are 10, um 700 and some OD accounts in total less than 500 of them are commercial I'm just curious uh commissioner War how do you feel about 2B as a proposal for us to start discussing yeah it's fine all right so yes let's move forward and looking at 2B as our resolution and we'll go from there anything else on 22 to right discussion about the storm water assessment rates now are you looking for direction as well um we we are looking for direction as well yes sir okay so what you have before you and on the screen for the residents is the uh fiveyear I'm sorry six-year proposal that we went over last year um with Stant um as what you know the storm waterer non-ad arm assessment should be increased every year and what the the revenue will be um so next year we are proposing uh to stay in line with with last year's increase um the vacant fee per 3900 fot would go to $393 the non- single family fee um per 3900 of impervious would go to 16940 and the single family tier one at $913 single family tier 2 at $169.4 and the single family tier 3 at $254 and keep in mind this is the revenue generated for the storm water department for the day-to-day operating this does not cover projects and anything like that it is just for our day-to-day the Personnel the piping the the work orders the ditch digging the pond cutting that kind of work right so do have a a couple of questions if this is so the storm water assessment is just for the day-to-day operations of the of this of the department yes sir how do we plan to fund the other how do we actually plan to fund the projects then so we we continue to reach out for any grant opportunities available uh any legislative Appropriations that we've gotten in the past um but in order to achieve the capital Improvement projects um that santech presented you know back in 2020 or 2021 when that was first initially done it was the continuous increases to begin building your your uh reserves and working towards completing your Capital Improvement projects um so in order to complete any of the capital Improvement projects you would have to continue to increase and build your reserves and as of right now we have the six hmgp projects that we are working towards um part of the the consent agenda was approving those Grant extensions um but we do have more storm water projects that we will continue to pursue other funding options for okay um because some of the feedback I get from the citizens is that the assumption is that what we're doing with the storm water assessment is actually help improve or complete storm water projects correct and as you can see as what's before you this year we generated $1.4 million um a prime example of a project on Vermont Avenue from 14th to 11th Street to where it discharges into the bay that piping needs to be replaced and it's upwards of $650,000 so if we were to approve that project it would wipe out over half or almost half of your revenue for the year which in turn Cuts back on your day-to-day maintenance of your ditch digging your cutting your pipe covert Replacements that you must do okay um and I guess the another question that I'm that I'm asked and proposing or or asking here is with the assessment of course we've looked at it you know several times over the past few years with stanch bringing us different scenarios um Commissioners proposing um different scenarios and studies the storm water assessment is this something that we're seeing for how long are we looking at this being an assessment for the citizens is this for the duration of the actual Department itself or long as you want to fund the stormw department you will have to have a storm water non-ad aor assessment so without the assessment then there's there's no storm water department then that is correct or you can start borrowing back from the sanitation which I don't recommend we do okay all right um so if I'm although we're talking about this individually from what we're being given today that we're looking at a storm water increase a wasting water or a waste increase and then an adorm increase if if I'm looking at all of this this is what I'm like we're looking at increasing across the board although I know Ator can be lowered but I'm just saying the feedback that I'm going to get from citizens is what we're leaving here today is saying is that there's a potential to increase all three of these um is what's being proposed today yes sir okay all right are there any additional questions for storm water well uh so as we've seen the storm water has gotten better over the past few years by it being funded but that would mean that it's the effectiveness is going like this but at some point it's going to level out so we just need to be mindful of that if if it levels out then we wouldn't want to continue to do these masses massive of increase is every single year so I don't know if that is fiscal 2028 when we start saying hey we need to start do stop doing it this way and restructure how we're doing it but a restructuring does need to happen at some point also I just want to voice again I understand that it needs to be funded I don't agree with the math of the tiered system I just want to put that on record it's not it it's it's not even across the board as it should be um if we if we're looking at the bdus and you do the average BDU per tier um it's not it's not remotely close to fair but um I just wanted to voice that on record that you know I understand that needs to be funded I'm not a fan of the tiered approach right any additional questions for Mr light uh one more question is are we at what rate are we still transferring funds to storm water have we completely stopped transferring or completely stopped transferring okay so with this storm water is this is this is a standalone division as well okay awesome St water exists only off the assessment the department does correct storm water storm water department exists because of the assessment correct correct previously before the assessment there was the I think $3 or $5 a month fee whatever it was and where do we get our funds from before we transferred funds over right right funds were transferred from the water and sanitation department years and years ago yes that's how they funded it now sanitation is is solid and it's in the past it's they've transferred funds from sanitation and water right so is there ever a time when sanitation can support storm water and it' be the there won't would be a need for an assessment that would be a finance question um but again we haven't raised any of the sanitation rates at all so we cannot get continue to take money from something we're not raising the rates on to function but that would be a finance question yeah um Kevin just before we go to that this is The Five-Year Plan that the commission has already approved so so yeah so if you like look at page it's page 182 of your packet it's that second page of last year's resolution you guys in that final resolution approved the um yeah 5 years of rate increases that we still have to come back and do a resolution where the city manager approves the assessment role and is authorized to send it to the tax collector and so really the only direction we're looking for today is do we stick with this 5year plan that you guys approved last year and then we'll come back and do similar to the water and sewer we'll do a a annual resolution at this rate that's plugged in here um 169 per Ebu for starting October 1 2024 we just wanted to make sure you guys didn't want to and make any changes and when we voted on this we assured the citizens of Lin Haven that we would review this every year to see if it needed to be maintained and so that's what we're doing we're taking a look at it and you're saying that we still need to maintain this and according to last night's Workshop when the people came up and talked about storm water drainage that's still an issue even though we've come a long way that's right it's still a problem in some areas correct that's correct the city of L Haven is one of the lowest lying points here I think commissioner perno has the facts on exactly where we fall elevation wise but the city of Len Haven of course will always have storm water and tile issues but it has definitely improved with the help of the assessment and Chris would you share with them just some of the projects we've done on grant that we could have not done just with the storm water assessment that we fixed storm water in some of those areas with grants we've had the we have the six hmgp projects uh which include uh Pine Forest Estates Dundee Lane Acme Lane Bradley Circle Wyoming Avenue and 11th Street and then we use some arpa funding to add the outfall on East 7th Street uh the 1600 block of Indiana and then we did some projects inhouse as far as widening and expanding some of the ditch capacity and then there was the Georgia and Pennsylvania Avenue project I don't remember how that one was funded but it was um in 2020 when that one was done totally millions of dollars the Vermont Avenue outfall as well so you're saying all those projects were completed not using the assessment money correct they were all completed with either a grant or an appropriation but there there will come a time 5 years down the road that we need to look at continuing the assessment or or finding out a way to fund the department and and if you recall again there's no emergency money in here for example um 19th in Montana that 72in covert that collapsed and we had to use some arpa funding and some um arpa and a little bit of the assessment money to replace that with the Box covert so any type of an emergency you know is not covered in that that we would have to to fund somehow all right any additional questions for Mr Lightfoot any questions commissioner Ward no sir all right um is everybody okay to move forward with the 2025 [Music] proposal yes commissioner PE I mean I'm not not a fan of it but I'm just one person out of five so um I'd rather not get the can down the road I mean it does need to be funded but I still think the tier structure is flawed we got to fix I but I don't know if that's something we can look at now or how what would it take to get stantech out here and sit down with me to re re-evaluate the tier structure about 30 $5,000 and keep in mind we did we re-evaluated the tier structures last year so stantex recommendation would be this again um of course there are other companies that have a different methodology uh this just happens to be the most common throughout the state of of utilizing um but there would be A3 to $40,000 expense and having someone other than stantech come in to look at the different ways of of um charging your assessment we did have I believe it was Mark Lawson that came in um were you on the commission at that time when Mr Lawson came um we did have a different alternative methodology that we did his was based upon the taxable value on the Improvement value so it would be based on the Improv Improvement value of your property so that's one you know stch you know there this is their this is their methodology so I mean they're this is what they're they're going to propose every time you'd have to go to a different vendor if you want different methodologies so do we recall um and this is just for historical that I know we because we've had these discussions before um I think every year we talked about storm water reassessing it um believe commissioner War uh sort of champion looking re-evaluating the tier method and then we did have stanch to re to Revit you know to re Revitalize it um and then we actually had several discussions with Mr Lawson on his method for um storm water assessment um do you do we Recall why we chose to stay with the stanch methodology versus Mr Lawson's proposal if I recall correctly I think that was just the preference of the commission at the time to continue with this method versus changing unless scanner Kevin has another yeah there wasn't any particular reason over the other I think we you know we had already had stantech and spent a bunch of money on them and did it and um so we just kind of stuck stuck with it tweaked it a little bit but yeah I mean to commissioner pe's point you know at any point in time you know we can change the methodology we would just do another uh you know assessment ordinance and resolution and change that but you would have to bring in a a consultant is it uh sorry I didn't mean to cut you off yeah and like I said it it does yeah there would be you administrative fees you know factored into the rate so I mean technically the the assessment would pay for that I mean it's still obviously the the citizens are paying for it but it's you know it's not like you get that money back obviously through the assessment and in order to do that we would really need to start like in October of if if that was the commission's preference to look for other Alternatives we would need to start that in October either do an RFQ or find a contract that we could go off of for a consultant and then establish it and then move on so at this time of the year we would be able to present what the assessment would be with with their methodology to the commission okay I now I'm starting to um remember there and I remember you explaining this in the past but why do we have to use a consultant when it's just basic math like we have a finance director already I can sit down for 6 hours and run the math yeah I it's just like when you do an impact fearce it it has to be based on you know local data I mean you you have to be able to support it you know with the report and so we the city can't can't do that on their own um so basically you hire a consultant they bring in you know an economist and engineers and stuff and they have to justify what that what that method is um you know certainly once we have this method in place we could always tweak the numbers and the math on it but if you want to totally change the methodology like this one is based on impervious surface whereas Lawson's is based on Improvement value it's two totally different approaches could we look at these tiers and change the BD the price per BDU yeah and that's and that's what we're doing you know we approved A Five-Year Plan looking at the the Ebu each year so you absolutely you can and that's just a function of of of math right you change it and here's how much money you get yeah here here's my problem is like if you take every single house every single vacant fee every single um business right the average BDU should be around one meaning that on average all of them are paying on average $169.4 if we were to do fiscal year 25 it's not anywhere close to that it's like 31% off so that means like the tier one F the the tier one homes are or the tier three homes are taking way more of the percentage than uh than the others so I'm okay with the tier uh as long as the bdus are closer to the average it's like a 31% discrepancy whenever you do math it's like a plus or minus 2% it's 31% it's not even close so keep in mind too when you look at the tiers and the what the square footage is typically the the tier three they also are going to have a higher Improvement value so they're also going to be paying the higher assessment in that methodology as well as this one um it will just be you know each if you and I both have a 4,000 or greater square foot house but your improvement value is is higher than mine our assessment will be different whereas here it's the same but for the most part the the money that you're going to be paying is around the same based upon the tiers now and the Improvement value just because typically your improvement value is higher with the higher square footage and I think that was part of the method methology with Jim Lawson as well if you remember he did have some residents paying like $690 that year and then some of the businesses were lower than the resident's house and you guys had a problem with that yeah but yeah it's it's truly just based on well it's it's a two-tiered approach one every parcel has a flat V so that's fair across the board so if you own a piece of land you're going to get $80 then there's the increase on that is the tier two which is the Improvement value so yeah you might have a a small business that they're Improvement value is only $200,000 you know dollars and you've got a house that's you know 600,000 yeah you're going to you know the homeowners is going to be paying more than that business but it's just based on the Improvement value the logic being you know you you've got more more of an incentive and sort of more to gain just just like with like fire protection you know if I've got a million dollar house it's really valuable to me to have a good fire department where if you have just a vacant land may be only worth you know $80 to me so it's it's the same same Theory you you don't want to flood a million dollar house you would pay more to avoid flooding a million dollar house than you would in theory I I agree with you except that we're not doing it by Improvement value we're doing it by square foot we're not I'm just telling you that's what the other methodology is and not all square we can all agree that not all square foot is is created equal you know if you got a house from the 19 1940s and the house that's built in 2024 the price for square foot it's going to be significantly higher for the 2024 so um and there's a lot of houses in Lin Haven especially on that side of 77 that was built that were built in the 80s and they're made out of cinder block so uh their their price per square foot is significantly lower than like a brick house so um I I know that you know everyone's hat here besides me was on the commission when all that stuff was talked about but I just had to get it off my chest I guess so mayor are we moving forward with this one this year so we can have some direction of what we need to ask two more Commissioners I'm sorry uh commissioner War how are you with the 2025 proposal um so before I uh kind of make any decision on this I want to see the uh the roles for all the addresses and take a look at that compared to last year um but one question I had is I know one of the things we did was ditch digging we contracted all that out is there any other efficiencies in the storm water department that we could contract out that would be more cost effective we could likely do an analysis on our storm water cover work and we could generate a cost of what it what it cost the city to do the pipe work orders and then we could look at the price of like our push button contract or get additional quotes from contractors and see if there's any cost savings there of doing more pipe jobs you know sub those out versus doing them in house we could definitely get those numbers together and present to the commission okay thank you and commissioner Vander gri um the question what does see in the roles uh hope hopefully what information would that produce I I'm because I might want to see the roles too that's why I'm asking uh commissioner W what do you hope to find from the seeing the roles well I had a discussion with stantech last year and there was a couple areas that need to be improved on and I just want to make sure that those areas are um have been looked at and corrected okay and you'll share that information I'm sorry what will you share that information that you get sure absolutely okay so I'll I'll let you do that then um okay thank you that's the only question I so yes we'll move forward the resolution meeting adjourn