e e e e what's here [Music] for I e actually hey man hey how are you you sit in with the HR attorney as well or no what was that I'm sorry we I mean obviously oh really you do sir doing little yeah calling our special City commission meeting to order at 104 p.m. let's pray together Heavenly Father we come now asking for your presence to be in this place asking that you would fill our thoughts our hearts our spirit with your spirit that we may think your thoughts that we may speak your words ask oh God that you would give us wisdom and ears to listen today so that we might understand how to handle the matters that are in front of our city at this moment uh Lord just ask that you would continue to bless our city we truly are a city on the heal we have been a beacon of light during dark times in Bay County ask oh God that you would continue to allow your grace and your mercy to guide us through uh the storms that we face in our city Lord give us peace where there's tension Lord give us strength where there's weakness and father pick us up where we fall down be with us now Lord in Jesus name amen let's stand for the pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you uh moving on to our agenda item which is discussion for the commission with a labor attorney regarding the pending Human Resources uh inquiry so obviously it's no secret to the matter that is uh before our commission and um and our human resources um case File at this time and though uh some of us have had extensive conversation with our labor attorney and some have not we do have many questions that have come to us as the commission um from the public some we we've been able to answer some we have not and then even as commission we have some questions as well and so after last meeting I did follow with city manager and asked that we would uh speak with our labor attorney about having a special time that he could come over so that we could focus specifically on this issue um and have discussion with him without it being um unhampered by other City business or other matters that we have to discuss on a regular agenda and so that's why we're here today is to um have a open Forum uh not necessarily open Forum but a public discussion um with our uh labor attorney um as well as having the uh the council um of Mr Rob Jackson who's historical counsel here with us at the city um of Lin Haven as well so um we have both of our uh attorneys here that have been guiding us through this process and previous processes what got us through this process um over the last month or so so this time we're going to hear from my labor attorney Mr Dave Marcy he's going to give us a presentation and then we will follow up with some discussion thank you Mr Mayor Madam city manager members of the commission I've been asked to give a a presentation today I think there's been some new Commissioners since I last presented before you so I think I'd open up with just telling you a little bit about myself uh I am one of the city's attorneys uh I focus in the area of HR so since about I think about 2015 uh I've guided the city on HR matters and I work very closely and in conjunction with your City attorney and that includes on these issues that we're here to talk about today I've worked with Mr Jackson today Mr obos continuously since this issue first came up um what I've been asked to do is kind of give an overview and a presentation and then I'll be happy to take some questions after um please note however though that there are some questions that I'm just not going to be able to answer whether it uh invokes a confidential protected health information of an employee uh possible litigation things of those nature there are some things that are going to remain confidential until the uh HR inquiry is complete complete but I will do my very best to answer absolutely every question that I can because I understand the importance of this issue both to members of the commission and to the community we're here today to talk about a uh parking lot accident that occurred on January 2nd of this year when Chief Ry was off duty and operating his personal vehicle uh scrubbed or bumped up against a parked car there were no injuries there was property damage uh Chief Ry left the scene and was stopped about a block later is my understanding where he provided all of his contact information identified himself and then at that point made no efforts to conceal his identity it's my understanding that he promptly reported uh the accident to the city manager and I was brought in very shortly thereafter to assist and provide guidance now I reviewed all of the available information uh that we have available to us today uh that would include the FHP crash report uh the FHP offense report the there's three traffic citations that were issued there were some audio files regarding the report of the accident uh there was some audio files regarding the dispatching of Troopers to the scene and then of course there was a surveillance video that showed pretty clearly what occurred one primary piece of information that is not available is what the outcome is going to be with regard to the decision of the state attorney's office now because uh Chief Ry is obviously a law enforcement officer the state attorney in Bay County elected to recuse himself which is very common it happens across the state and these and other incidents there's nothing unusual about that um then what happens is the the incident the issue then goes to the governor's office for a reassignment of the prosecutorial Authority so somebody has to be in charge of Prosecuting or reviewing to determine whether or not prosecution is appropriate that uh process has occurred and State Attorney gingerberry from the first circuit has been identified as the conflict free state attorney that is currently as my understanding evaluating uh this case about whether or not criminal prosecution is appropriate uh just to be clear where we are procedurally chief Ry has not been arrested he was issued a a citation that if he is convicted would constitute a misdemeanor offense he was provided a court date my understanding from review of the docket that that court date has been continued and is set for early next month I would anticipate that the state attorney would make a decision about how to proceed on the case prior to that court date and there's generally two options that the state attorney May uh have one is to file a charging document that would indicate that the state attorney intends to prosecute Chief Ry for the crime of leaving the scene of an accident involving property damage over $50 but with an unattended vehicle or an unoccupied vehicle the other option the city excuse me the state attorney could elect to do is file a no information or a document declining to prosecute typically what happens in cases where the state attorney elects not to prosecute uh the state attorney or assistant State Attorney making the decision will file this document and will generally indicate some reason why the decision was made not to move forward and at this point I cannot speculate uh whether the state attorney will move forward with a prosecution or will decline to prosecute at this stage uh the only information that is available right now is that Chief Ry has been accused of leaving the scene my understanding is he's also received several traffic infractions uh that would be akin to a speeding ticket a non-criminal violation that is punishable only by fine so when this came immediately came to light um with my guidance and that of Mr obos your City attorney uh there was a preliminary inquiry conducted by your uh staff Miss Gainer and her staff to initially evaluate whether or not uh the chief was on duty at the time that this occurred and we concluded uh They concluded excuse me that he was not they also reviewed whether or not any City equipment or city Vehicles were involved in this accident and they were not so at the outset we're looking at uh a parking lot accident that occurred off duty not involving any City Vehicles again there's been some delay given the state attorney's recusal and the need to re assign another state attorney to review the case we know that the the incident was investigated by the Florida Highway Patrol uh they prepared some offense reports or excuse me a offense report and a traffic crash report which my understanding have been released as public records and in there there are some conclusions uh but again that does the trooper does not make a determination about whether or not prosecution is appropriate they present their case to the state attorney and we're still waiting on that response during the course of this uh the reassignment State Attorney and and as these additional records have become available your staff through Miss Gainer and assistant city manager Jennifer Hodges have actively monitored the situation they're not sitting back passively they're checking the docket as recently as this afternoon to determine whether or not there's been any action taken by the state attorney's office they've been frequ frequent contact with me I know they've been in frequent contact with Mr obos Mr obos and I have spoken together a numerous times and Mr obos and I have independently agreed uh on the course of action that I'm going to outline for you today and we have presented that to the city in an effort to balance the issues and as a near 20-year lawyer that spent the majority of my career representing commissions such as yourself municipalities districts school boards Etc I understand the importance of maintaining transparency and maintaining relationship and Communications and the open exchange of information with the community I understand the concerns that you as Commissioners is the governing body of the city of linh Haven have regarding allegations made against your police chief who is an agency head but as your HR lawyer one of my responsibilities is to advise City Administration and in some cases the City Board the commission itself on how to best reduce risk how do we minimize the risk of liability and that liability can come from many places it can come from outside it could come from uh members of the community it could come from inside and that could include employees although Chief Ry is an agency head and he does serve at the the discretion of the city manager he is entitled to the same protections under in federal law as any employee and that includes the right not to be terminated for improper reasons and I say improper reasons not suggesting that terminating him would be improper we don't know the answer yet because the fundamental question here is is your police chief going to be prosecuted for a crime or not if yes then the decision can be made based on that information if he's not going to be prosecuted then the offense that he committed would be akin to a speedy ticket so the issue before you maybe would this commission take the same action uh had he been accused of speeding we don't know the answer to that yet because we're waiting on that final critical piece of information from the state attorney's office and I've advised the city manager and your assistant city manager Miss Hodges on multiple occasions that there will be a time and we anticipate that being in the very near future when the state attorney will make a decision and will provide that critical piece of information from which your city manager can make the decision about whether discipline is appropriate or and if so what level of discipline is appropriate because again Chief Ry although he's an agency head is entitled to the same protections that all of your city employees are and that includes the right to have the information uh excuse me employment decisions made based on facts based on actual evidence and not speculation not based on emotion and not based on people being understandably upset about the allegations that have been raised against him now one of the things that that makes this uh issue a little bit more challenging is there's been issues raised that invoke protected health information that I'm not at Liberty to discuss um obviously employees protected health information is just that it's confidential it's not appropriate for discussion in the public uh so unfortunately I will not be able to answer any questions about that however there are protections under federal and state law involving medical conditions and Personnel actions taken against employees that may suffer from medical conditions and in this particular case one of the critical factors we're waiting on is a determination about whether or not the uh protected health information uh was is going to be factored into the state attorney's decision and I'll post a hypothetical and this is not the condition that uh is being considered here but in in a hypothetical case if a a motorist suffers low blood sugar because they're a type 1 diabetic and has an accident and the charging Authority in this case would be the state attorney's office in the First Judicial Circuit determines that there was no culpability there because a medical condition is what resulted in the Collision that would be handled significantly different than if that employee intentionally engaged in some kind of Reckless conduct so as your HR lawyer I have to balance not only the very critical and important uh and necessary transparency that your community expects and that you as Commissioners and the city manager and the mayor demand I also have to mitigate and balance in giving my advice on potential risk and legal exposure and some of the legal exposure here could come externally and internally and if the city if the city manager using her Sole and exclusive authority to make determinations of personnel decisions at this stage without all of the information including the critical information about whether or not protected health information caused or contributed to what occurred uh it would be premature and I've given I've been very clear I believe um Mr obos has joined me in my position position in communicating to your Administration that making a decision prematurely without knowing the facts these critical facts about whether or not the state attorney is going to credit protected health information is causing or contributing to this Collision in my hypothetical example uh the diabetic who through no fault of his or her own suffered an issue that resulted in a traffic crash it would be inappropriate to take Personnel action because it made would expose or may expose the City to liability that could cost tens of thousands of dollars this is not a circumstance where we anticipate the decision to be six months down the road or even months down the road we know from the publicly available docket that the court date is uh I want to say it was first week in April it's coming up so I would reasonably anticipate that final critical piece of information that will allow your City attorney and myself as your HR counsel to provide guidance to your city manager on uh the appropriate way to handle this to mitigate risk both internal risk and external risk risk from Suits by your employees and from the community to ensure that the city police department is being operated correctly appropriately and that the members of your community are being protected and also so that you as members of the commission can have confidence or not have confidence in your chief of police but that decision uh my recommendation is should be based on facts it should be not based on uh rumors it should not be based on speculation it should not be based on accusations uh from members of the community that is uncorroborated um I can see social media I've seen social media posts I've seen some of the allegations uh that have been floating about uh I also know based on my review of the material some of that information that is out there floating around is untrue that's one of the reasons as your HR attorney that I focus very heavily on the facts and that I make recommendations and and give advice on how to proceed to mitigate risk to protect you as the city and your hard- earned uh reputation that decisions are made based on the facts and not uncorroborated or unproven allegations now please don't take anything I'm saying to uh judge in advance whether or not discipline is appropriate I have no position I don't know the facts I decline to speculate but once the state attorney makes the decision and this body knows whether or not your police chief is going to be prosecuted for a misdemeanor crime of leaving the scene of an accident causing over $50 of damage with that information then your City attorney will be armed with the information that in my opinion would be sufficient for her to make an appropriate decision whatever that decision may be based on the facts and if I know um city manager gainor the way I think I do she will be very reasoned very thoughtful she will consult with Mr obos as the City attorney and myself as HR counsel and come up with a well-reasoned decision that reflects the facts now there's been some question about whether or not uh the city staff myself or somebody else should conduct an a separate investigation into what's going on beyond the review of the available public records and as your HR counsil I've expressly advised against that and here's why first of all we're all aware of the history uh of the city of linh haven over the last several years we're aware that several uh former officials have received some or have been indicted and have been prosecuted and there's been allegations some of which have been proven some of which have not about misconduct involving their official position I am sensitive to those needs to of the community to know what's going on to know what their officials are doing what I'm also sensitive of is to avoid the appearance of interfering with a third-party investigation the highway patrol should be able to investigate and make its recommendations to the state attorney's office without any interference without any influence without any suggestion by me as your HR counsel or any other city official I feel very strongly that the state attorney should be able to review evaluate the facts as it would any other citizen that was accused of a similar offense without interference advocacy or involvement of me as your HR counsel or any City official I intent in advising the city to uh refrain from doing an investigation is twofold one it's already been investigated I'd suggest that no agency in the in the State of Florida is more qualified to investigate traffic crashes than the Florida Highway Patrol that's what they do similarly as it comes to making prosecutorial decisions State Attorney Barry and her staff are infinitely qualified to make prosecutorial decisions and if I or somebody acting on the city's behalf or my direction engaged in the state attorney office or highway patrol in an effort to speed it up to get inside information about what was going to happen to press for a decision to press for a rationale about what decisions have been made or what decisions will be made I believe that could be reasonably be interpreted as interfering with the investigation or the prosecutorial decision or alternatively trying to influence the outcome so my advice to the city thus far and I ret I I continue to maintain that it's to let's let the the investigation run its course let's let thech charging decision run its course without interference from any member of the city without any allegations that the city or its officials tried to influence the outcome and particularly uh without any allegations that uh your your councel or any City official tried to influence any witnesses that there may be to this case because once the state attorney Mak its final decision it'll be my opinion absence some new information that we're not aware of that at that point your city manager will have sufficient information to consult with legal counsel and make a decision regarding Personnel action the last thing I'll mention although I cannot discuss protected health information for any employee I can tell you that your city manager has shared concerns that to the extent some information is out there in the community about Chief ry's uh health information the confidential information I'm not privy or not able to discuss with you that one of the things she did is to ensure that he is competent qualified and fit for Duty so at your city manager's Direction a chief Ry was directed to participate in a psychological and a medical Fitness for Duty evaluation by training TR medical professionals that's not your City lawyer making a decision that's not a city official making a decision that's not your City attorney or an HR person making a decision those are medical professionals that the city uses and has used for years there was no special retention of any provider for this case it was medical and psychological professionals that have been used on an ongoing basis and both medically and psychologically Chief Ry has been cleared for full Duty with no restriction or limitations with that mayor that's the end of my presentation if there's any questions I'd be happy to address them thank you Mr Marcy for that uh presentation um I know a few weeks ago or last week we had talked about and you basically answered it but maybe I reiterate it again we talked about the option of conducting an internal review with having Chief Remy on administrative leave while that review was conducted um also spoke with city manager about that then we followed up with you and you gave us advice against that having an internal review um prematurely before the case was um handled from the legal side of it uh could you I guess give us a more shortened uh response to that so um because that's been some of the questions but that was something that was recommended is that we have an internal review with Chief r on administrative leave but you advised against that um yes but let me unpack that I think there's two separate issues mayor the first one is whether or not the chief should be placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of this investigation including the charging decision um the city over the years in the approximately nine years I've represented them has had other employees that have been charged with crimes off duty not involving any City vehicles uh not involving their official position and my recommendation to uh not Place Chief Ry on administrative leave is consistent with how this city has treated other employees that have been charged with similar low-level misdemeanor offenses so again although I'm not suggesting that uh I'm in any way uh condoning approving endorsing the allegations against him at this point they are still allegations and in order to be consistent with how the city has treated other employees under similar circumstances it was my advice not to place him on administrative leave pending the outcome the other issue was if I understand correctly mayor is about doing an internal review and that internal review started the minute that it was reported so and that that that internal review started when the city manager and her staff immediately evaluated whether or not Chief Ry was on duty or his conduct involved any c equipment it established it did not that review continues to be ongoing uh as the docket is actively uh monitored as the available public reports are actively monitored when those P reports are available they're reviewed they're forwarded to me for a review so the inquiry has been going on Mr Mayor from the outset my qualif ification to not conduct completing it is as I mentioned before not interviewing Witnesses not doing things that could be perceived rightfully or wrongfully as interfering in the outcome of the the state attorney's review the highway patrols investigation uh or any decisions that are made by those third parties it is the cleanest it is the safest and I believe the most transparent way to communicate with the community for this commission and its administrators to be able to say the city of linh Haven and its staff had absolutely nothing to do with the decision-mak process of either the Florida Highway Patrol to issue the citations and submit the one charge to the state attorney's office and also for the State Attorney it doesn't mean that once the facts are complete once the state attorney makes that decision uh and files that charging document or files the document electing not to charge at that point um we won't need to initiate an inquiry um we'll be able to conclude the inquiry that's been ongoing since early January thank you I think another question that's raised um is whether or not Chief Remy was arrested uh there have been uh different emails and different statements that have been made that due to uh Florida statute that mentions that notice to appear is uh considered synonymous with being arrested um though maybe not put in handcuffs charg in books could you give us a little Clarity on that cuz there's some question as to whether not he was actually arrested based on how that citation was delivered yes sir the the term arrest is not defined in Florida statute or law um in some context to be arrested means to physically be handcuffed detained against one's will and that did not happen here um what happened is a a citation was issued and was served on Chief Ry and he was given a court date and that court date was sometime in March and it's since been continued to that April date so uh using the accepted definition of what an arrest is no Chief Ry was not arrested he was issued a citation that has potential criminal penalties in reality would be a fine uh as a former prosecutor is somebody that is familiar with this type of offense from a prosecutorial capacity albeit in the Second Judicial Circuit uh the the standard typical fine excuse me punishment for an offense as Chief Ry was issued a citation for would be a fine so uh no mayor I'm comfortable in saying he was not arrested and based on using the language that we see in Court decisions such as false arrest and things like that that would that would require somebody to be detained against their will and that did not happen in this case thank you uh commission how I would like for us to proceed is to go in uh seat order um for the questioning that way each one can have their their time and then if you have additional questions then we'll come back again in that same order okay commissioner pees thank you so uh I just want to start off by saying by the questions I'm asking I'm not trying to imply anything I'm just trying to fill some knowledge gaps here from myself and for anybody else that might have the same questions so as far as the arrest thing goes uh in the incident report we got from the Florida Highway of Patrol it says in the top right hand corner arrest so that's a bit confusing can you elaborate on what the difference is I'm not familiar with I mean I read the report but I don't know what goes into FHP forms I can tell you that in 19 years of Defending false arrest claims a false arrest claim does not exist unless somebody is detained against their will um I can't answer on behalf of the highway patrol I can tell you that my opinion based on 19 years of practiceing law in defending law enforcement uh and other agencies and monitoring cases that involves improper illegal arrests um being issued a citation and given a court date does not constitute an arrest okay thank you um a little B I got a few more things uh so as far as the administrative leave thing what is there anything negative that would happen from putting him on administrative leave because if you look at the Florida state statute the way I read it it says not to suspend without pay not to demote and not to terminate before they are charged or but it doesn't say anything about administrative leave with pay and the reason I ask is because I understand that there's other employees that have gone through the same thing but being in the military myself and holding different roles when you have certain situations it's not the same as just being a normal employee so like if let's say someone was working at public works or something and they were in a traffic uh issue the public is not does not feel unsafe or does not feel like they're not represented or whatever because it doesn't say the city of Lin Haven blah blah blah when someone holds a position like a department head citizens could possibly lose trust if we don't do something about it so my question is why why is why are we looking at the chief of police situation as if it's the same as a normal employee when it's just simply not the case you know we were talking about um risk and mitigation of risk I do I do risk management for a living and there is risk if you don't do something there's risk on both sides and you have to you can't just look at risk of you know the the litigation side of things right there's also the risk of well what if something isn't done to show a sign of faith for example we have a police officer a very good man that just had um he had a medical issue to where he is trying to raise money to to get his hospital bills well there are people that are upset at the idea that we haven't shown them enough trust that they're not going to this benefit you know I can't say that as a fact that's what they're saying of course but it's just there's risk on both sides of things and I don't I don't see why just showing a sign of faith is mitigating the risk of of other sides of things so my question is if we were to do administrative leave until the court date we can reassess then what is there a negative impact on us as the commission as us as the city for recommending that to the city manager because I feel like that's a perfect way to say hey everybody listen we hear you we're going to put in my administrative leave until things are cleared up and then we can reassess from then this is again this is just me asking questions to fill knowledge gaps yes sir and I appreciate the question um I'd like to start off by distinguishing and and you know you tried to draw a distinction between a chief and quote normal employees uh as an HR lawyer we do recognize that different levels of employment may have different standards so I I I think that's where you were headed I recognize that but it does not allow uh the city or should not permit the city to unilaterally make decisions without the information now I guess I'll start off by saying uh it is legal and authorized uh to place the chief on administrative leave pending the outcome of this uh that was contemplated early on and it was decided not to occur and I can tell you that in representing government a agencies throughout the State of Florida uh in my opinion based on 19 years of practice in HR law that that's consistent with best practices of other employers so when I mentioned that the city had handled other situations by not putting the employee on leave um the basis for that or support for my opinion in that regard comes based on uh almost two decades of experience working cases Statewide um but you are correct that it would be uh legal to do so now what's the what's the adverse part the negative part uh well there are some other risks and you talked about risk management and one of the risks that I have to to take into consideration when I am advising your city Administration is the risk that may arise from an employee being placed on uh leave even with pay for a potential medical issue that involves Phi and that is one of the things that goes into taking into account and by no means is that crediting any statement or or response that was made at this point is premature what we also can't do is we can't disregard facts that are not uh expedient or uh just like we can't credit them so part of the risk management process is weighing all of those factors commissioner and you're absolutely right risk man can come from all different angles and I've done that in giving advice to the administration and ultimately that decision lies with the city manager and it is consistent with the advice that I gave her um and one of the other things that we have to be careful of as well in that totality of circumstances is uh public statements that are made not only in meetings such as this one but outside that demonstrate an animus or a bias against an employee that's suffering from these circumstances if there's public employees if there's members of the commission uh that are making statements to the public affirmatively stating they don't they don't agree with um that the chief is suffering from a medical condition that's covered under protected health information that demonstrates a level of animus and bias that I have to take into consideration when I weigh the risks about potential litigation that if this were to take into litigation and so one of the risks to Chief Ry would be reputational harm I understand that there's concerns about that but uh this is a relatively minor offense um I've got Statewide experience representing governments with similar uh offenses that take a similar approach and when the information is available I have every confidence that your city manager is going to uh make an appropriate decision on how to handle it because I've been working with her for years and she and her staff are very astute and in tune with that so I don't know whether I gave you too much information commissioner um it is certainly a discretionary decision and based on the totality of those factors my recommendation was not to place him on administrative leave but ultimately it was a city manager's decision and I believe she concurred with that so then I think the next or the last thing on the list is why shouldn't we make that decision now and I respectfully suggest there's been no change in circumstances between earlier and now if there are any changes in circumstances I respectfully suggest they we in favor of maintaining the status quo because there's been some very public statements made about Chief Ry the factual circumstances that are being investigated or considered by the state attorney's office and some conclusions that are made that are out in um the public they're being consumed by the public and I really urge that the city to be cautious and not to change the status quo when there's evidence out there that some folks have taken some folks in the city have taken a very adversarial position against Chief Ry if decisions need to be made based on facts I will be the first one as will Mr obos your City attorney to stand up and be able to guide your city manager and what's appropriate uh in the absence of any change in circumstance uh at any time from January 2nd until this meeting right now I do not make recommend making any changes at this point regarding chief ry's administrative leave status and I think the incident was December 30th I'm sorry the citation I looked at was the second you're correct mayor okay I think the citation was issued a couple of days after okay thank you I apologize thank you for that correction yes so the concern is for the administrative leave is the reputation side of things that's one of the things I outlined many concerns commissioner but yes yeah as far as yeah I just I don't understand how giving someone a free vacation as a sign of good faith could be negative towards your reputation when he's already getting his name drag through the mud by the public you know if the if the if it comes out and he's he's innocent right then he's innocent but why not why not put him on leave until that's determined I I don't understand how that could be a negative reputation that's all I want to say with that and again I'm I'm not trying to put a position on anything I'm just trying to get uh questions that I've had asked to me so yes sir well I can address it very succinctly there is a significant amount of difference between what the public says and what this body does and what Chief ry's employer does and that is a significant difference as a public official all of you as elected officials as an appointed city manager uh are subject to public scrutiny and the public can speak out for or against City officials and that includes Chief Ry the difference is when there's information out there prepared or presented by some members uh of the city including perhaps some members of this Commission that completely discount Chief ry's claim of a medical condition uh that by changing the course right now and placing him on uh administrative leave even with pay uh is causes reputational harm it certainly suggests that there's some Superior knowledge by the commission uh that doesn't exist and again I I strongly urge and caution and have urged and caution uh not just in this personel action and all Personnel actions uh to make decisions based on facts and in my opinion based on some of the public statements that have been made that could be attributable to City officials including members of this commission that changing Chief ry's status at this time could be viewed as punitive and if there is a ultimately litigation um involving those decisions I would expect that's how it would be portrayed and getting back to the risk management in the balancing of risks um there's nothing that's changed since December 30th and now that warrants a change in his administrative leave status in my opinion now ultimately those are management decisions I don't make those decisions that decision would be up to uh your city manager um but my role is to give the best advice I can to take into all of those risk management issues internal and external and come up with a part of course that I believe is the safest for the city that protects the city's um hard tax dollars in not having to pay tens of thousands of dollars and defending litigation costs or placing somebody on administrative that might be perceived as punitive based on some public comments that have been made that really impune um Chief Ry thank you yes commissioner thank I'm here um I have uh just you've worked a lot of these situations all over the state you just stated that I just the the one thing that that I think maybe we can explain now if you can help if you've been you know versed on the entire timeline of everything we were we were kind of um blindsided by the you know the issuance of the uh the tape getting out and you know and everybody's like a lot of comments to me were when did you know when did you find out about this and and it was like the the actual occurrence of the incident happened on December 30 and it was it was uh what late February when we were when we were actually uh as a commission it was brought to light so um and then of course things were explained to us but why would it take a month and a half for us to know about the infractions and the citations and everything that everything that happened so can you expound or you did you talk to everybody along the way because sounds like when did you come in on this well I don't have an exact date commissioner perno but I can tell you it was relatively early um I can tell you I don't get involved in the communications between City Administration and the Commissioners you you Commissioners that have been here for a while um it's very rare that I I come before you and answer questions or do a presentation so that is generally outside of my perview I can tell you the materials that I got I received from Mr obos so with regard to any timing unfortunately I'd have to refer you to either your City attorney Mr obos or the city manager Miss Gainer I don't have any further input on or information on that commissioner to be able to answer your question we we publicly went over the timeline in our pre-commission meeting a while back and I mean that's that's when we at that time we we we sat and said status quo let let things run its course but things have changed since then and U and that's why we're here at the special meeting today for you to explain things but I really would hope that we can we can get that ironed out um so people can know exactly you know when he was issued the citations when it well we found out when it was brought to city manager mention and how everybody was working on it but we it it seemed like from what I heard he had he didn't have prior knowledge of the criminal citation only the Civil citations so is that normal I don't I can't answer that sir because I've not spoken to Chief Ry so I'm not trying to be evasive I'm giving you all the information I have but well I just would hope the public would want an explanation on that so that that's my only hangup right now and I think as I understand it that um the criminal citations didn't come or the criminal citation didn't come to mid-February which at that point we were informed about it at that point when the criminal citation came I think when the incident happened and then the uh civil citations were given that he paid those tickets handled it you know with an insurance with his insurance agency and I think initially we weren't informed because it was something that happened off duty not in company cars but then once the criminal citation came that's when we were updated and informed about it at that time the criminal citation was uploaded prior to the Civil citations according to well that that's the story I've gotten criminal citation came on uploaded on the 6th and he was handed civil citations on the 10th so okay just thought that we might want to explain that so is there any any explanation for that cuz I think commission probably found out a week after the criminal citations were uploaded or I guess the better question will be when were we informed that the criminal citations were uploaded because they could be uploaded and we still didn't know that that I think that's really the issue isn't so much when they were uploaded as much as when were we inform when when did we as a city staff know they were uploaded and then when did we receive the information because they could be uploaded on the sixth and we still as a staff not know until 10 days later um so if we don't know then we can't inform about what we don't know so I think that would I think that was in the timeline as to when it was discovered that we did know um so are we able to answer that question as to when was City staff alerted to the criminal citation being uploaded Mr Mayor I can't answer that I would defer to your staff on that I can't tell you that my understanding is the citation was issued but it doesn't have his signature on it so if there's a summons it would be the the citation would be completed it would be uploaded and then it would have to be sent to the recipient of the citation unlike if you're if I'm stopped at for speeding and the officer gives me a citation and I sign it obviously if my signature is on it we know when I received it so I think there's two factors that would need to be um viewed there is when is Chief Rey received it which I do not know because I've not interviewed him and two then when City staff was there I would I would not be comfortable using the upload date as the date Chief Ry received it because my understanding was it was a summon that either had to be mailed to him or sent to him in some way other than simply presenting it to him in person got it is there a response from City staff on those matters yes sir so in the timeline we did um put in our timeline it was uploaded on the 6 no one know it was uploaded when Chief Ry U those cations were dropped off to Chief Ry on the 10th on a Saturday by that FHP officer um Chief Ry went on Sunday to pay those citations uh when he went to pay those citations that's when he saw that had been uploaded to a criminal criminal citation on Monday Chief Ry made me aware that but said exactly what said uh there's no thumb print there's no um signature I've called FHP to see what's going on cuz no one knew up until that point um and he tried to to contact FHP the officer who issued that was out Monday and Tuesday uh I said and I actually said to him we need to get this resolved uh on Tuesday if you don't hear I'll have to report that to commission which would have been Wednesday and the story broke miss perno any additional for that no I was just looking for a full explanation in public so thank you any additional questions for Mr Marc um I think at this point we'll take one break and I'm not skipping you commissioner or um is there anything that you would like to add to this conversation before we get too far into it uh no no mayor unless there's any questions from the commission or I'll um I'll just I'll stand by for questions all right thank you all right commissioner Ward so the first question I have is uh Chief Ry is an Atwell employee correct correct as a Atwell employee you don't necessarily have to have a reason if if you decide to terminate them you don't necessarily have to have a reason to terminate them unless you're violating some law such as discrimination um whistleblower stuff like that so that's a partial explanation first of all all of your employees are at will except my understanding is the city manager is the only one that has an employment contract so with regard to at will employment Chief ry's position or his status is an that will employee is identical to all of others um but you are correct as an not employee somebody can be fired for any reason or no reason as long as it's not any legal reason here when we have the implication of a protected health condition that may give rise to a potential civil action uh it's best practice to have a reason because if there is no reason and an employer relies just on the atwi employment Doctrine if an employee files a suit and alleges that the determination was for an improper reason uh as an a litigation attorney if I don't have a stated reason for the separation or the termination it's impossible or incredibly difficult to defend a an employer's decision on why they took action if they don't State why they took action and that applies across the board both public and private sector commissioner so if if the city did take action let's say for example they did terminate them what would be the legal ramifications if it was determined a wrongful termination well um my analysis regarding this particular factual case are confidential um because we're still in the middle of this incident I can talk generally about factors that would would apply to evaluate whether or not uh a termination in the hypothetical that you posed was for a legitimate reason or some other reason such as improper animous about membership in a protected class A protected class could be race sex gender it could be a medical condition uh and one of the things that would look at or that would come out during Discovery or comments uh discussions email Communications things like that that discuss the employee and discuss the that protected classification prior to the ultimate employment action so for example if there's comments or statements attributed to senior officials or elected officials that talked adversely about an employees race and then an employee was terminated and they alleged race discrimination but the employer does not have a reason for the termination other than relying on the out will employment Doctrine it's difficult or impossible for litigation Council to be able to say no that employee was not terminated because of race you the jury should ignore those comments those negative comments about the terminated employee race and just believe us that that we didn't give a reason for why we terminated but we didn't do it for racial reasons so I can't talk specifically about this case but again it's kind of like the totality of circumstances it's like the risk management uh issue I discussed with commissioner pees that you've got all of these factors that have to be taken into consideration and a decision is made by me as your HR counsel to give advice and then ultimately by the City attorney is the decision maker and employee matters what is in the best interest of the city uh so it's not a uh a checklist commissioner there's no list of factors that I can give because not all factors are present in all cases but it would be a totality of the circumstance analysis to evaluate whether the employee or the employees council could show that the employment decision in the hypothetical the termination under the atw doctrine was substantially motivated by some improper animus and hypothetical we use the race discrimination example but but there are tort limits for those right I'm sorry there are what limits limits on how much someone can sue the city I I don't understand the question limits like dollar amount limits yes uh yes but they're substantial how you know how much that that is in the Tor context uh it's capped at $200,000 under the federal law employment discrimination uh statutes uh there is no cap but this wouldn't fall under federal law would it it could yeah a discrimination case based on protected health information medical condition would be actionable under the Americans with Disabilities Act it also could be actionable under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 okay um if let's say if the commission decided to take any action on this could we be SU personally or would it have to be the city that would be sued I would have to defer to your board counsel that's a that's a question that's outside my purview as HR Council so for a discrimination action typical as U Mr Marcy's talking about there's no individual liability for the Commissioners okay now you know there's lawyers are smart and Innovative sometimes and can come up with different ways to to try to attach um individual liability for certain types of cases but there doesn't appear to be any any path easy path to that here right um think that's that's all now actually I do have one more question um I know this one there the criminal one still open but then the Civil citations right and as I think commissioner pebles have brought it up about we're holding holding the police department heads to a high standard especially the police Chiefs consider the enforcement of the law and if someone got civil citations but then not just the Civil citations but other reasons that might have brought negative publicity to the city um it could um gosh I can't remember the question I had but that could be a viable reason to terminate somebody um it could be yes that would be within the discretion of the city manager to make that determination so he he does have civil citations that he has paid and there have been prior actions to this that have bring negative light to to the city and us as the commission could um take action on that that's a complicated analysis first of all yes there have been prior citations I've not personally um verified that they've been paid I've got no reason I've got no reason to dispute that I just I just don't know that as a fact um when we're looking at off-duty conduct and I think what you're alluding to is is it's generally referred to as conduct Unbecoming a government official right um yes that can be a bonified Avenue to uh take disciplinary action but it off-duty conduct has to be more scrutinized than on duty conduct uh but yes it could theoretically be and again that would be within the management disc question of your City attorney okay excuse me your city manager all right thank you yes sir commissioner vag gri yes I don't have a question all right thank you are there any other additional questions from any of the council um if no one does I'd like to make a statement and a motion if I can any questions for the uh City attorney you look so different it must be the haircut any questions for Mr Jackson okay thank you Mr Marcy are there any final recommendations that you have for us as a city commission uh yes Mr Mayor I recommend that the city uh maintains its current course we have an an estimated uh 2 or 3 week conclusion date based on uh Chief ry's next court date I would expect based on my experience as a former prosecutor we would see that charging decision made before that court appearance in early April and then in my opinion once that information uh is known then your city manager will have sufficient information to be able to make a decision and evaluate whether or not discipline is appropriate and what discipline there is again with one of the critical factors being you know was a was this conduct uh driven by influenced by caused by some kind of medical condition beyond the employees control much like the diabetic analogy that I used I don't recommend there being any changes at this time other than continued monitoring and continued full communication with the city's Council both Mr obos and I to make sure we're all up to date on the the current facts so your recommendation is that as a commission that we don't take any action until the conclusion of the legal matter with the caveat that my that recommendation is based on the assumption that will occur within the next couple of three weeks got it so your recommendation is that based on the fact that this should be resolved in the next few weeks hopefully two to 3 weeks that we wait until the conclusion of those legal matters before we take action yes Mr based on the the the idea that it should be concluded in the next two to three weeks and that if that is not resolved within the next two or three weeks I recommend the commission take that up to re-evaluate at that time got it so your recommendation is that we take and the reason I'm repeating this is so we can have Clarity I'm not I'm not trying to be funny it's for clarity okay so because everybody's going to miss conscrew you're going to go post on Facebook what he said what he didn't say so we're we're having this for clarity and also because we have a a a different uh Note Taker today so I want to make sure that okay so um so your recommendation is that we take no action based on the idea that this should be resolved in the next 2 to 3 weeks and if it is not resolved in the next 2 to 3 weeks and we reconvene to discuss the matter at that time as to what action should be taken yes Mr Mayor with the understanding that that City staff will be continuing to actively Monitor and confer with Council got it um is there a motion to receive the recommendation of the city council lab attorney can I ask a question first um if this does come fall under what we talked about earlier federal law uh criminal uh not criminal a federal law lawsuit would that be covered by our insurance I don't think either your City attorney or I can give Assurance uh opinions or coverage determination certainly nothing that will be binding I can tell you as a litigation Council for the city of linh Haven and I've been litigating cases uh again almost 10 years we have defended other cases alleged disability discrimination brought against the uh the city but I have to be clear that I don't work for the insurance company I haven't read the contract and I can't give a coverage determination and this commission should not rely on that in making any decisions do you happen to know City attorney so I'm not as familiar with the uh City's insurance policies as I used to be but I can say that generally uh a labor type of claim like this if one were to come would be covered by Employment Practices liability insurance which I believe the city does have thank you do you have any response to that you Jennifer hajes assistant city manager anytime we have a case like that our insurance com company will do coverage they will actually provide us documentation on what they will and won't cover and if it's limited so until the cases before them I can't answer that it's it's done through a legal review at that time any additional questions all right is there a motion to receive the recommendation of Labor attorney I'll motion that we continue as as we are and wait for the outcome as this labor attorney stated all right there's a motion is there a second second all right there's been a motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner V Griff comments from the public in half Miss Parker Jerry Parker rep place did any of you read the code of ethics that the police chief signed can I get an answer I'm hearing two yeses nobody's going to answer me well let me tell you what it says it says it doesn't matter if he's on duty or off duty doesn't matter he has a responsibility to show [Applause] Integrity on his office as chief of police I cannot believe that you guys are acting like and trying to sweep this under the rug just as usual you won't even put his name on the agenda I mean what kind of who you who are you protecting you're not working for the citizens the citizens are outraged but what y'all are doing basically what I see is Vicky gain Nelson and Vander gri combining together to protect Ricky Remy this is not his first offense guys I mean how many times does he get how many strikes that's okay with you that's okay with anybody of you Pratt I talked to you extensively that's okay with you May if I may can I Converse okay Miss Parker I know we talked we talked for like a half hour after the last meeting and I know we we agreed on uh one thing to disagree on exactly what you're saying right now but I assured you that there will be an action and that action will come at the hands of the City Attorney at the point in which the full adjudication of the law is determined and I'm going to stand by that to protect the city of linh Haven in in the manner in which it's been explained to us by an HR attorney and a City attorney not me not it's just my feeling as a commissioner no emotion as you're showing no no personal anguish I'm standing here as a commissioner linhaven trying to just in my in my right mind frame of mind acting as a commissioner to protect the city at all cost if we do anything now okay it could jeopardize the city in a lawsuit can I interrupt you for a moment please it would show good faith to the citizens if you were to put him on suspension with pay I don't care if it's with pay or out pay but do something to show good will because you have lost the trust of the public period the the video shows it what what more evidence do you need so you're not talking to me anymore when you interrupted thank you additional public commentary Miss Moore then Mr Walker and Mr Hines you know if you guys want to wait a few weeks that's fine could you state your name for the record please more thank you um which I don't actually have to say my name or my address or anything but I do it anyway I don't care if people pleas with your comments I certainly will I don't I personally don't care if the commission Waits you know a few weeks um if it I have a feeling it'll just get continued in court but you know because that's the mo um but go ahead and wait and see for the you don't have to um as I'm glad that it's already been established that Mr Remy is an atwi employee because there's been some information that he wasn't um you could fire him at any time and there is ample reason to already fire this man he's got a small little letter in his uh personnel that would be a good reason um one thing when I'm listen to the lawyer up here um it sure sounds like he's um engaging a comment that could appear to be threatening to people like myself and to some on the commission you know if they make comments they might open themselves up to litigation and so forth I don't appreciate that I I know that his role is to you know advise the city um but we also can't have a chilling effect on freedom of speech and we have to be very careful um judge Walker in Tallahasse actually affirmed that um I'm glad that the lawyer um you know amended he thought the incident happened in January but it was December 30th as has been said the um arrest report from FHP FHP was actually 15 um uh and I'm I don't understand the timeline so I'm just kind of clarifying some things here um Miss Gainer uh said herself that it was reported to her in January at some time I guess that's when Remy came to her when the fines paying the finds weren't enough this commission did not find out until Valentine's Day when it was revealed on social media okay it didn't come from your city manager and she should have told you um and Ry did leave the scene without giving us information I think he even admitted that he said he had a medical condition that caused him not to leave his for correct me if I'm wrong but I think the attorney said that the information was it was exchanged and it wasn't right away he said that he was and he was actually chased down by a citizen and then he was then he did give his information when he had to you can see the video unless the video has been tampered with he got out of the car he looked at the damage that he ca he got back in his car and he drove away I don't know what happened after that but that's what happened um I would Mr Marcy wants to come back up here he keeps talking about misinformation I'd like to know what misinformation is out there um you know I want facts and I want truth and so if there's information that's floating rant out there that's incorrect I'd like to hear it myself thank you um couple of responses to that number one I didn't find out about it on social media maybe other Commissioners did I didn't I found out about it from a phone call from my city manager so I don't know how other Commissioners found out about it I haven't asked them but I found out about it with a phone call from the city manager I did ask why am I now just finding out about this why didn't you tell me before and so I wasn't elated that on Valentine's Day that I found out about it however she did explain the reasonings as to why it wasn't brought to my attention before now and I said okay doesn't mean I agreed with it doesn't mean I liked it her and I did have a discussion about it um and we said okay moving forward let's try to change how we you know do our communication in matters um such as this I think in one sense um although yes our police chief is um a higher profile employee I think is how we would say that that or how I say that he is a higher profile employee that in her initial she looked at it as if another employee was to do it as in regards to the citation and so she thought that to be a HR matter um and as as Commissioners we don't know every single individual that's hired and fired that's done within HR I see new people and I'm like oh hey how are you doing or uh I did meet probably more new employees than the other Commissioners because of the uh confined office space that we had and so when I walk in I would see them meeting with Miss Hodes and then she would introduce me to them and then they may be gone in two weeks you know it's too hot outside or is this or is that you know so they're they're going pretty quickly um so as the city manager explained it to me when I did question why we now just finding out about this it was because hey I thought it was more of a employee Personnel issue with it being the Civil citations paying the fines Etc um and then at the time when she found out about it the citations as we understood it weren't delivered at that time and so there was nothing to report in regards to a citation to the commission besides hey he had an accident and this is something that his insurance company is handling versus now he has these citations um so wanted to clarify for the record I can't speak for the other Commissioners I don't know if they've told you I found out from the city manager so each person that has email being asked me I found out from the city manager again express my um you know my dislike for finding out at you know at the time that I did find out however now we know how do we move forward with that um also I believe Mr Marcy did State um the same narrative that Miss Moore just elaborated on that Chief Remy had left and then someone and then after he left then he was stopped stoed by someone and exchanges information I think the clarity Mr Marcy was making is that the information was exchanged so he did state that he did leave and that information um was exchanged at that time and I think Mr Marcy is also stating you know for whatever reason everybody people think people are trying to stifle their freedom of speech but you're standing here speaking freely so I'm really confused on that um please help me understand that every person that comes up here and says that we're stifling or we're suppressing their freedom of speech is speaking why they say that I I I don't understand it I'm really baffled by that now with your freedom of speech you can't stand up and disrespect people and slander people at the same time I mean freedom of speech doesn't allow anyone to do that that's the issue is that you want to be able to stand right here and Badger people bully people belittle people slander people and talk down to people and think that's okay that's not okay I will discuss anything with anyone respectfully I don't agree with Mr Walker and everything that he says but most of the time and I think all the time he is very respectful in his comments and afterwards depends on what the comments are we might have some discussion and exchange and interaction however uh I don't consider him to be disrespectful in in his tone and his gesture so let's clarify for the for the freedom of speech okay and let's also clarify that I'm not the one that ask that public comments not be made by people Beyond Bay County the news did report that falsely all right but I'm not the one that stated that or brought that up I'm willing for anyone to come up and speak not trying to stop you from speaking publicly what Mr Marcy was stating is the facts is that any of us are liable for what we say in this public setting any of us are Li for what we post on social media and as we know this is America and people can see you for anything so we know that so Mr Marcy isn't trying to suppress your freedom of speech and say hey don't say this and don't say that he's just letting us know that there are there could be potential consequences to the things that we say and we can't always hide behind freedom of speech when we say it so you can't say what you want to say about anyone to someone and hide behind our first amendment rights as if it's okay there are consequences to that all right so that's the freedom of speech part all right Mr Walker and then Mr Hines and then my guy right here don't forget we will be having uh signin sheets for next meeting that way can be a little more proficient uh Rich Walker 1106 Michigan Avenue uh thank you for bringing me into the conversation I enjoy that I enjoy also being taught what freedom of speech is which uh doesn't fit with my concept of it and why I swore to defend that um I have three questions first I have facts I'm not dealing with speculation of facts and I do have respect and this is the respect I give you in this present problem you have and you have a problem and I told you you putting yourself in a box you don't have any say in this young lady up there has to say she has it so no matter what you say she's in charge okay number two this state is a no fault state that means the person can hire and fire the person that is in charge of hiring and firing is in charge and she doesn't have to have a reason or he doesn't have to have a reason to fire there are criteria yes as your labor lawyer said yes and they will be followed the bottom line is she doesn't he doesn't or it does not have to have a reason it's a no fault state you have to go with that the office of city manager has exercised that right quite often that's why she has lawsuits against her or we have lawsuits against us so you got to consider first of all you don't have anything to say and you're saying us and the people we don't have anything to say so we're out of the equation up to the office of the city manager she has to make it he has to make it or it has to make the decision and remember that has been done before there have been lawsuits this has been said with all due respect it puts everybody in their place they should out of that Mr h03 R on Avenue my address is on record for a long time could you pull your mic up just a little bit thank you the problem is confidentiality everyone on the diet have a confidentiality Clause you should sign every year so everything you do should be confidential the citizens in this city that keep complaining about the city they're not the only one living in the city you don't represent just one group of people you represent everyone there's more than 20,000 people live in the city of ly Haven so if you got 20 to 100 people that's complaining they're not complaining for everybody in the city everybody in the city is not on the internet so we don't do who did what who shot John when John got shot or who shot John and why some of us don't even care about it we just care about the results and the law states where the states this been a free free will country and a free will state for long I've been living and I'm 71 years old it don't me people argue about stuff that's already in the system let the system run its course what happens happens this is a city ran by the city manager not by the mayor not by the commissioners all you commissions get together five the city manag then y can run the city but you still have to get another city management because that's the charter so everyone up there have one vote one vote only including one that's not here so do what you put there to do represent the city and not a group of people thank you yes sir yes sir H Oakley 128 Massachusetts Avenue first of all I want to say that I've never been suppressed here at Mike I'm kind of a conflicting speaker once in a while I'll speak my peace I've never felt stifled here second thing it's an honor to speak behind Army Chevrons listen to what he said I don't know him but I guarantee you he's wise okay two analogies I want to bring a few years back when had moved lived here about 10 years I get a phone call one night as my younger daughter speaking if you've got daughters you'll get these calls Daddy wreck my car are you okay sweetie are the men with blue lights there yet yeah but I'm hiding in the house across the street because I was told if I'm not there they can only get me for leaving the scene not DUI that's my 18-year-old you know and it she she did that the only person that got wrecked over the calls was me and my insurance company and I would like to know after I think this is a good time for Lessons Learned I think it's time for you and your staff to go back and recount sign on documents even for you as a contract officer or is the city protected Contracting with me do we understand what an atwi state is we moved a company here me and my mentor did to Florida with the express reason of getting out of some of this egregious legislation and litigation we did it we saved a half million dollars a year in extraneous litigation moving from the state of Maryland to Florida it didn't mean youd be mean to people unnecessarily but the employee didn't run the company anymore and the only thing I'll leave you with is I can't feel the palpable anger here we got to do better than that cuz we don't when we get angry what do we do we lose 30 IQ points we become embil when we get angry attorney don't you win me if you can make the other guy angry he generally gets stupid doesn't he leave that up to that's my take on this visual observations state of the course yes something needs to happen the public is fiercely angry we need to restore our faith in who's running who's running show here thank you additional public commentary yes ma'am I'm ree Russell I live at 720 West 8 Street I heard a lot of facts today but I would like you all to hear a fact from an 81-year-old resident who has lost Lo faith in the people that I trusted and that is a fact it doesn't matter to me what somebody does in the privacy of their home that's their Castle but when they take their actions out in public and something happens and and for whatever reason yes this has been blown up up on social media social media can be good it it it can help get the word out about a lot of things but people need a forum and and some of us are scared when you get to be my age you want to have trust in the people that are there and and I personally don't have a problem with any body unless they attack me none of you have attacked me so I'm okay but the bottom line is I think a lot of people like me don't get up and talk very often because we think it doesn't do any good I would like to think it does some good but I think a lot of us are scared and and just like when you're small children and you're scared you you run your parents and and your parents are supposed to make the boogeyman go away well we as citizens have no other place to go but to the commission all of you and and I know that sometimes it gets heated because people are human but please remember some of us out here are scared we you don't know what you know because you can't tell us all and I appreciate that and I do understand the law cuz I worked in it for several years I I guess I've read some things differently than what this attorney has said uh I have my own opinions but I can see I read things I mean they're in black and white I didn't make them up I I just get confused when I hear such conflicting statements and on top of being a little bit afraid and losing trust I question why I want to live here and I'm serious about that I've been here 19 years I want to stay Thank you thank you additional public commentary yes sir Ron Keel I live at 3014 Harrier Street um to my community right now that I live in in my my neighborhood we're actually not even talking so much about the Ricky Ry issue at all one of the things that was a discussion of topic last night was actually something you talked about about the freedom of speech and by the way every meeting that I've ever came to I haven't seen you try to make sure nobody could talk however last meeting I Mr Mayor you were wrong reason why you were wrong is because each and every single one of you guys that sit up there on that board we put you there Jamie work wanted something on it agenda whatever reason you decided to decline it or whatever I asked him to talk about the issue these people back here they wanted to hear about it Sam's a friend of mine people come to his house he gets flooded with phone calls people the city want answers we getting answers today yes I know actually happy about that but we should have had answers a long time ago my opinion doesn't have to be right doesn't have to be wrong I just wanted you guys to remember that we put you there none of you guys have any power we do citizens of this community I had to say thank you additional public commentary Mr Gray two things to consider U you please state your name for the record please sorry Brian Gray 1513 East night street thank you uh two things to consider uh this is not an isolated incident this is the third incident in probably the last three years considering choices that our chief law enforcement officer of Len has made uh number two if it protected health information such a major issue three times he got in his truck got out left got pulled over changed his got out again so three different times he got out of his truck got in it so not sure why that's a big issue thank you right thank you additional public commentary yes sir John Bailey 642 Pine Drive Mr Marcy's uh has gity law changed it all because under Florida statute 11 12.53 to the officer Bill rights any individual law enforcement officer who was interviewed during an internal affairs investigation they cannot use any of that material in the criminal investigation that has been long time standing practice that is separate you can put Ricky Ry on an internal affairs in investigation and it can go forward it's so supposed to be recorded all the information is supposed to be taken kept in a file there is no reason why you guys should be stifled with an HR issue that issue occurred while he was off duty so did the medical incident he knowingly and willfully went over there pulled out his card and did not place it because he knew he was intoxicated he then knowingly and willfully left the scene nothing has changed about that you guys found out later I see some of you guys are meeting with your own attorneys you have your firm has a fiduciary responsibility to the city just like you do you represented Ry in lawsuits also for the city did you withdraw your representation of Ricky Ramy I don't remember that you guys aren't being given all the facts okay this is not the first incident I came up here and talked the last time Mr War where you were given false information that the material that was put on the docket on Pacer with the federal court by this attorney here was improper it was out the public could download it and the public could see it that's what's opened this Pandora box of corruption here in Bank County you guys don't like it but that's what the FBI came up with it's time for you guys to be leaders and step up and do something it may hurt it sucks but that's what we're faced with Larry bassford also dropped charges against Ricky ry's son in Washington County there have been attorneys disbarred for not citing conflicts he knew he had a conflict I've heard he went to the State's Attorney's office and went over there and tried to have this Trooper drop the charges this is not right there's a double standard here in Bay County it needs a stop I don't know if your firm has a conflict one of your partners is related to the St Joe attorneys you'll represent several cities this needs to stop the FBI isn't done they're still here good luck thank you additional public commentary there's a motion on the floor to continue with status is there a mo uh someone had additional commentary you okay all right no um there's a motion on the floor to continue with uh status quo that we've maintained based on the recommendation from the labor attorney and to reconvene if this matter is not resolved in the next few weeks um there's a motion there's a second city manager you call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner Vandergriff yes commissioner wart no commissioner pebles I'm going to say no because the recommendation is based on nothing changing since we learned about the incident but things have changed so I'm going to say no mayor Nelson a point of clarity what could could we pause here and could we understand what has changed since we found out about the incident on February 14th till today what exactly has changed thank you for for bringing this up so I talk about it so for me um one thing and I should say the facts that have changed yeah so we did not have the public records from Florida Highway Patrol until March 7th so I had not seen those second I just learned today that it's not illegal to put him on administrative leave that's also new to me so based on the facts that I know they have changed okay all right yes meeting adjourn