e our meeting to order at 5:30 p.m. we will have Pastor Chris former pastor at City crossing guard Church to come and lead us in our invocation and Pledge of Allegiance thank y'all so much for inviting me to uh to lead y'all in uh in prayer let's pray our heavenly father dear Lord just so thankful for a beautiful day that you bestowed upon us today and God we pray next week as we celebrate Fourth of July here in Lin Haven God we pray that you just bless all the folks that work so hard in putting the the parade and the fireworks and the uh all the doings and and God I pray pray that you'll bless each employee in a mighty way the volunteers to help in the Fourth of July God we live in the best country in the entire world and God we're so thankful to call the United States of America home and God tonight as uh the city conducts this business God we ask that you uh be with the mayor and the Commissioners and the city manager and God we pray that you give them wisdom from on high and whatever decisions that they have to make God and we pray that they'll seek your guidance and and wisdom God all wisdom comes from you and God we're just so thankful so thankful to be here tonight and God we ask all these things in your precious name Amen to the flag of the United States of America to the for it stands Nation God all right since the mayor is here no need to have a motion to excuse me all right mov on to public commentary we have christe maoy for public commentary number four good evening ly Haven commission um I watched the pre meeting um and to say I was horrified is an understatement horrified that there was such a betrayal uh to a fellow commissioner horrified to see um the way he was treated and spoken to I was also sad for him but I respected his honor in sticking by what he believes we should all do that and never be stifled or intimidated into any other thing this is America not a Banana Republic thought I could be horrified enough until I was just handed resolution number 24 20 24- 064 433 concerning a resolution uh talking about commissioner War commissioner War this stuff just is hogwash it's not true I've been to most of your commission meetings I've seen how things played out that man wanted to have a finance committee because he wanted to know what the finances were for Lan Haven because everyone was being told it was like $19 million it's over $50 million and he fought like a lion to make sure that there was a finance committee so that the taxpayers would know now spiritual bypassing is nefarious it's also narcissistic if you want to act like Scarlet oh and get yourself to Los Angeles and go to Hollywood but spiritual bypassing the amount that I've seen in these meetings since you took over Mar is beyond comprehension that man deserves respect and to be treated as an equal he isn't subservient to you and any of you that are afraid to do the right thing because of Ricky Ry or the city manager you need to step up and do the right thing for the taxpayers and quit trying to protect yourselves ask that you would hold your applause please all right uh Judy Tinder all right ask that you would hold your applause or we will bypass public commentary and go on to the next agenda item thank you Mr R I said please hold your applause or we will bypass this agenda item and move on to the next one part of our rules for theorum say there's no applause all right so Mr scay item number four uh thank you for the introduction and I appreciate seeing you back here I know you're out of town for a little bit there um just want to address obviously the two items that were removed from the agenda uh I did listen to the entire meeting I want to give some Kudos out to both mayor and commissioner for agreeing to remove your items uh particularly the mayor because as I emailed you and said I don't think that it was appropriate to even have that item up there it was retaliatory made accusations that were not backed up by evidence whoos to Comm commissioner pebles for calling you out on that you did not have evidence of harassment you did not have evidence of uh anything other than interrogation and by process interrogation is simply questioning I can interrogate you right now did the did the City attorney type up that resolution for you that's an interrogation so there's that beyond that I also want to address something I've brought up multiple times before every one of you is an individual you are a member of this community you are not defined by your position you are not defined by being a mayor you are not defined by being a commissioner a city manager or a City attorney that's just a position that you do so your personal Legacy is that who you are as a person don't confuse that with you being up here you're not defined by your job we do not work to or we work to live not live to work if you're up here to create a legacy for yourself you should probably question why you're up here each and every one of you because it's not about what you do professionally you're here to serve all of us just do that you're not here to make a name for yourself or fulfill any kind of goal other than doing what's best for the community and finally I just want to say commissioner work you may feel like you've failed yourself but you've not failed the community it is never a failure when you stand up for what you believe is right that's all that matters please do not Applause other people that will need to speak after me you are not a failure if you stand up for what you believe in and that's not just for commissioner work that's for everybody in this room everybody in this community always stand up for what you believe in just don't get so lost in it that you forget all the other things going on the city's got a lot more stuff going on that we need to focus on we got a sewer and water plant that needs work I see that on the agenda we're making progress there the ulc have you guys been reviewing that it's been a while I haven't seen that agenda item again got a lot more work to do know all I ask is you guys are up here get to it please thank you Vicky Williams good evening Vicky Williams Len Haven I have watched every single meeting since I've moved here six years I've attended several this Mr Ry is heavy on my heart that he is in charge of the policeman of this city and I have an example that he is still going around ly Haven doing exactly he's as he pleases he recently parked his red truck with the boat trailer down by the bridge on private property without permission property owner drove up and wouldn't know why he was there and he said he believed that uh he knew who owned that property well it's been sold well he was there [Music] trespassing the property owner asked him to leave and he backs up over the water meter cover it is destroyed and makes a loud sound cracking sound in the whole neighborhood a lot of people heard it in the neighborhood he jumped out of the truck and he assured the owner that he would have it replaced the next day well I called the utility department and that cover cost $70 after I talked to three people I want to know if he paid the $70 or did he direct somebody to go sorry direct somebody to go down there and put the cover on there I don't trust him people in this town don't trust him and he doesn't have integrity and he doesn't have good judgment and this is another example of it this is going to keep on happening until something's done about it thank you thank you Jerry Parker good evening Council Mater since 2023 we the citizens of Lin Haven have been burdened with the knowledge of our City's police chief's unacceptable conduct on December 30th 2023 he was involved in a hit run incident providing a blatant disregard for the laws he himself is entrusted to uphold despite this he remains employed still drawing from the city's pain roll I have started a petition on change. it is an outcry for justice against the violation of the police chief's code of conduct it is a plea for accountability transparency and the upholding of the ethical principles that govern law enforcement in City officials in 2018 the Pew Research Center found that 84% of us adults felt that public officials face very little or some consequences for misconduct we cannot let our city feed this disheartening statistic we call on local government and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to hold the police chief accountable for his devastating incident and other potential past actions that violate his code of conduct we insist on a thorough investigation and appropriate disciplinary steps as determined by the outcome linh Haven deserves better we cannot allow individuals who blatantly disregard the law to hold positions of power sending the wrong message to our our community and the nation at large we demand change now when you try to Shield bad behavior it makes you the commission look weak I also want to read some some comments that people gave for reasons for signing this petition if this were any other person there would be a reason to have a petition there wouldn't be of a reason to have a petition and they would be fired the next day we not let this stand how are our children supposed to learn to be accountable for their actions if grown adults and Authority statuses won't take account accountability for their own those holding public office should be held accountable along with the public officials who aren't holding them accountable law enforcement Personnel are not exempt from the laws regular C citizens have to follow accountability from the top down is necessary for public trust being a small town doesn't exempt an officer of the law from answering to the citizens that that in this case he answers to Justice should be blind the same laws must be applied equally to all Remy has a long history of unethical behavior that has brought shame on the city he needs to go Bay County deserves law abiding law enforcement the last one the actions of Chief r and other corrupt officials in Lin Haven and Bay County forever changed my life thank you I still have time and have caused irreparable damage to me and to my family somebody else's I mean I still have time it was someone else's clock you can continue so the majority of these people that made these comments I have no idea who they are I've never spoke to them several of them I have these are the citizens of Lin Haven that want change you need like I said before you need to look deep within your soul this is not something we need to continue with how long are youall going to continue with this how long are you going to continue this stain it's a stain on our city thank you thank you Rich Walker good evening uh you have a nice evening it's going to be long um I don't want to issue anything and take you back to government 101 in high school what you've just done is atrocious slap in the face people slap in the face to one of your Commissioners not right this man this your commissioner duly elected oh yes you're elected to help us You're Not Elected as person said to further your career and enhance yourself what happened there is he tried to do something he asked you how to do it you told him how to do it he did it that way and then you censor them that's not right the person that wrote this we don't know who wrote it but it is a resolution his request was to discuss a subject and when it was brought up two of the other Commissioners slapped them on the wrist like Grandma and Grandpa slapping their children telling and they did something wrong and they weren't going to back him that's interesting his was not a resolution this is a resolution attested to by the city manager and attested to by the mayor if approved he did the rules right he brought it to you and asked you for help and ask the citizens to take a look at this you should have allowed the citizens to take a look at it and discuss it like grown people instead of that you shriveled cringed hid behind something and browbeat them both of them into withdrawing their comments that is incorrect they you work for us we are the citizens we are the top tier of the government goes next to you it does not go to the city manager we did not elect the city manager I have to address you I can't address her learn a lesson people are in charge of the government not the city manager not the Commissioners they are supposed to honor a request from a commissioner legally made to discuss a subject shame on you all right thank you Lis Rita Miller public commentary good evening I just want to say that um I think that it is pretty ridiculous that we have to continue to rehash the same thing over and over and over and I think that there are more important things um to be done and I would like to see you focus on that and um I'm going to trust the process because that's what I'm supposed to do as a citizen I'm going to trust the process that each of you are working with the attorney to make sure that things are being handled and um I I just don't like the unnecessary bickerness thank you Michelle basher Michelle bashir's 811 Louisiana Avenue I too am tired of the focus on the um situation with Ricky gramy I wish that the process too would work out and that the right thing will be done when the right time when it's the right time um just race anyway Mr Chief Ry um Extended a courtesy to my family in a very difficult time and I would like to publicly acknowledge Him and thank him for that um and um as far as a controversy of his conduct last December I would ask that you who support Donald Trump would extend the same courtesy to the city manager mayor and Ricky Ry the rest of the commission and the City attorney Donald Trump's behavior is deplorable and criminal and still you support him thank you Julie Payne yes um commentary I do not support Donald Trump not one single bit commissioner Warick I want you to know that the citizens many many people that I know of support you and thank you and know you tried the good fight and you should be proud of yourself your family's proud of you we're proud of you we understand this is not worth it for the family situation the life um apparently we've I've felt I've tried reaching to the other commissioner and everything always fell on deaf ears okay everything fell on deaf ears wait for the process I don't trust the process it's it's proven to us time and again that if someone in my shoes would to do that I would immediately have been so the process I don't I don't believe in it and um the reason we're not letting it go is because obviously enough of us feel that you all are not not doing the right thing and that's it I love our little town and I wish that I had more respect for the entire board that I have that I had hoped for the people that we did elect and some that we didn't elect but that are here and serving us thank you Jamie thank you all all right thank you Jodie Moore first I want to say I was here in the room um and saw the way that Jamie work was treated and it was appalling I didn't appreciate the way he was treated at all I thought he was being brow beaten and I didn't like that um I just want to point out that if to me if Chief Ry had any Integrity he would just go ahead and resign instead of putting the city through this but apparently he wants to stick with this um as Jamie has pointed out um this is a pattern of behavior this isn't just a one-time incident I'm going to read something I posted on the beacon of B County page I know none of y'all read social media but thousands of other people do and I'm going to read this to you okay some on the commission want to act like they are clueless as to ry's past misdeeds but I'll spell it out number one election interference three years ago when Ellen uh fields and Jesse Nelson were running for office ry's personal Facebook post and then statement to WMBB about Ellen violated employee policy and I made the case at the time State Statute regarding election interference number two published text messages revealed that Ry has fixed tickets for several friends and Associates this that was given to you in a packet by me number three Ry sent disgusting homophobic and misogynistic text messages to then city manager Michael White and for that he got a quote letter in his personnel file from Vicky Gainer so that was admitted um slap on the wrist text messages reveal Ry gave or sold a gun to city manager Michael White a few days after White made comments that could be interpreted as SU suicidal was that good judgment text messages revealed that Ry set up quote unquote a woman to be arrested at the behest of his friend Michael White under Ry lhpd also had other people falsely arrested because the charges were dropped to include Ash Ashley Finch and Monte odm furthermore as War has pointed out even though Ry has upcoming court dates in his hdden run case he paid civil citations which seemed to me are admissions that he knew he was at fault there is no need to wait any further to make a decision regarding ry's employment so I don't know about this U medical issue that he has but you know what he never claimed U medical problem on any of the other things that he's done I urge this commission to make the right decision this is just keeps dragging on and on and this doesn't need to happen this is putting the city through a whole lot I think you need to make a right choice you're you say that you're afraid of a lawsuit well you know there's plenty of other lawsuits on the city right now and other people that have been fired you know I don't think ry's got a case if he files a lawsuit I urge you to make the right choice for the city thank you thank you George H City and commissioner mayor citizens s Haven is a city with about 122,000 people in it so Mr Warren don't represent everybody I don't know who you're representing these talking about all these paperwork they have that they take around to their friends and get them to sign and everything I haven't seen them because they haven't been to my house they don't come to my neighborhood so you're here to represent every citizen in the neighbor not just this 10 or 20% that comes and complain about everything each one of you Commissioners was elected truly but everybody in the room they vot for either one of you you got some he got some she got some whatever however it went out we have citizens complaining about W to see things done but they say they're Christians and they read the Bible but in the Bible it tells you that God is the only person that take care of all Vengeance but everybody here got Vengeance against Ricky Ramy I don't know why I don't read all the stuff that they find on Facebook or wherever they find this stuff from I go by what I've seen he haven't done anything terribly wrong that I know of and I don't want to know of all these secrets they got they talk about all the time around here so I would appreciate if y'all work for all the citizens and not just a small clump of citizens thank you thank you Tony Bostic good afternoon mayor commissioner let's call this what this really is this is not a war issue this is not a Ry issue this is a longstanding issue that has to deal and goes directly to the city manager Miss Vicky gayner and the mayor Miss NE Jesse Nelson you could fire Ricky Raymond right now if you wanted to or if you had to and tomorrow morning the same people that's sitting back there is so patriotic they will find a new reason to come at you now Mr Ward don't be [Music] so eager to be recognized to not understand that you being played for food this ain't got nothing to do with these people here could care whether you felt bad last week when this thing unfolded here at the commission or week before last these are the same people that had issues with everything the city commission did before you took that seat these are the same people that had issues with everything Vicky G and Jesse Nelson has done since they sat in those those seats this ain't got nothing to do with you don't fall for the old oky doe Miami Shuffle is the oldest game in the book be careful because just like they they backing you right now first time you do something that they that don't go by their little Playbook guess who'll be on the chopping block you talking about things that are horrified and nefarious it's nefarious how the same same people uh as one speaker just spoke about that support Donald Trump can't see anything good that you guys are doing Mr pno been here for a hot minute Mr peop new to the new to the uh the space you guys got to recognize that under the leadership you have and through your own leadership as Commissioners then Haven sit pretty good among the municipalities in Bay County far as debt race Show Goes far as projects far as uh new building construction you guys are going y'all leading the way but you let a few see One Bad Apple will ruin a whole barrel of apples and you guys let a few bad apples out here ruin all the things you're working to do don't be that gullible and if you need to tell them to sit down and shut up do it what they going to do beat you I doubt it but quit letting these same people these same individual you got rid of one individual off the commission that was always had something going on is it now a policy in ly Haven that you must have at least one quit letting these people tear up what you're doing after a while you won't have any anybody in the city that believes in anybody and that's crazy just because of a few bad apples just G keep your head up keep smiling keep wearing pink by the way mayor Nelson keep doing what you're doing Mr Warden check yourself thank you all right thank you all right thank you right moving on to our commissioner's reports I'll since I'm not on the agenda I'll Reserve M for the end commissioner pees thank you mayor uh first I want to thank everyone for showing up um it's great to see everyone out here um I appreciate everyone that that gets involved with the the local politics so thank you everyone for showing up and thank you for all the emails uh phone calls text messages about whatever it is you sent them to me about um I I truly do um appreciate that it helps me get insight of what's important and be able to explain stuff if you have questions so I really appreciate that um I just wanted to say uh Miss Parker you know I'm a data guy I like collecting data statistics so whenever that petition whenever you feel like it's ready for presentation please present it to either me or someone so I can read it um and then I just wanted to mention that had the coffee meet up at Wild Root so I'm going to keep doing that I always love being able to sit down and uh have some coffee any chance I get to have coffee I'm going to have it but it's nice to also talk to Citizens or whoever is there when I'm having coffee um with that uh that's all I have I just want to say thanks to the staff for that took care of a lot of things um there's a lot of people that had questions about you know little things here and there and the staff got it taken care of within the day so really want to say thank you for all of you that that went out of your way to make things happen and um and I want you everyone to know that when you're talking just because I don't have an a response right away I am listening to you so please continue to talk to me dialogue with me um that's all that's all I have thanks thank you commissioner perno thank you mayor um I have a just want to say thank you to everybody in the room for coming out and giving us your opinions and how you feel um like to thank all the city employees for what they're about to embark on for the all the all the work that's going to take place for our parade and our 4th July festivities um I do have uh a two meetings tomorrow at 1:00 um at FSU they'll have the uh policy board meeting for the uh St Joe Bay St Andrew Bay EST program um and then at 3:30 will be the TPO meeting um the uh Bay Transportation uh that'll be our June meeting and uh that will be uh that will also uh we also be voting on the uh The Five-Year work plan so um and with that I'll I'll just be brief because I know we're taking up some time tonight and thank everybody so commissioner Ward yes so um it would have been so much easier for me just not to say anything and sit back so why do I do it I just want the residents to know why I'm doing this I'm not wired I'm I'm wired a certain way the reason I'm wired the way I am because my family brought me up with good ethical and moral values when I went in the air force it just strengthened those ethical and moral values and when I ran for office just like any candidate or most candidates do they normally come up with a flyer or something it has their top priorities normally they give their three to five top priorities and this was mine and has a picture of my family and on the back it has my top three priorities and one of them and I I refer to this time to time to try to reme to remind myself why I ran for office and one of them was to restore restore trust and it talks about integrity in there I have nothing against Chief Ry in fact I think he is a good guy I think there's a lot of things being said about him that are absolutely false but he does have a history and that's why I'm making a big deal about this because I feel that position deserves to have someone with high ethical and moral values and as was discussed at the pre-commission meeting um Miss Gainer the city manager stated she's doing what she's doing based on what the commission has told her to do so there really not not a whole lot more I can do about it the only thing I mean I could I've tried I thought about what I was going to say tonight I could try to come up with all these different phrases and words and and all that but really what's going to make a difference is the public because if you have three Commissioners that feel this way that's the only way it's going to change it um yes Friday after Friday I felt pretty defeated um I was disappointed in myself and I know I'm not perfect um I wish I could sit here and say my career in the military was 100% Stellar it wasn't I did a lot of great things don't get me wrong I love the Air Force I still love the Air Force and I have a lot of things to be proud of that I did but there are times that I stepped out of line and you know what happened I was held accountable for that and I feel like the same thing should happen to Chief Ry so I'll just leave it at that and the last thing I'll say is I've had ever since probably around Friday Friday afternoon Friday evening I had an outpour of emails phone calls text messages Facebook messages and I've had people come up to me and thank me and you have no idea what that means to me there was a point there where I was like why am I doing this and you help me with that thank you commissioner vag Griff I also have ethical values and moral values I mean we're not staying around for the important part of the meeting um but I am conservative and I am not I don't rush to crucify I was not out to crucify or humiliate Mr war on Friday I simply asked he and the mayor to withdraw the item that they had on the agenda I felt it served no purpose to benefit City I still feel that way Mr War talks about he sticks by his convictions well I hope that you can trust that I stick by mine I mean so far tonight we've been called that we cringe we hide from the right thing we're afraid we're doing we're only out to establishing a legacy for ourselves well ladies and gentlemen I've already established my legacy I don't need this job to establish a legacy I don't need this job I want to do it because I love Lin Haven and I want to do what's right but I'm not going to be rushed and I'm not going to be bullied so if you feel that I justly treated Mr War I'm sorry I don't feel I did I respect him I learn from him at every meeting I told him that but he brings to the meetings are very valuable I'm sorry if I'm embarrassing but he is and um I just wish the people would trust us a little bit more and and we're going on the advice of the attorneys like I've said many many times before and uh I'm sorry that you don't agree with it mayor thank you to address I guess some of what was in public commentary city manager when you stepped out for the time clock we did have a citizen to ask about uh water meter that was destroyed whether or not Chief Ry paid for it or if the city of Lin Haven replaced it not sure of the address not sure of any of that but that was a question that citiz and asked doing public commentary um miss m Miss Christy mckoy left but let's correct the record in regards to the finance committee um and someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not uh it wasn't commissioner war that proposed that it was actually the mayor that proposed the finance committee so go check the record you like to check records go look through all the minutes you'll actually see that the mayor proposed the finance committee the charter Review Committee as well as the update to the infrastructure committee so those are actually proposed by the mayor um so go check the record on that and then come back and tell us the truth about what you found in that record that's that's number one uh number two in regards to no evidence in addressing Commission ofes I would encourage you to go look at some of the previous meetings before you came um and you know look at some of those things and that are bring bring to light some of the statements that were made in the sent here it's interesting that everyone can use their freedom of speech but me that's very interesting that I'm called retaliating whenever I decide to exercise my rights I don't know why that's the case I don't want to think it's because I'm black I don't think that's the case I just think we have a misunderstanding of a a double standard no I don't think it's because I'm black I I very much am very proud to be the Mary Lin Haven and actually brag to people that we're one of the most diverse and racially advanced cities in Bay County whether not you know the stats 85% of Lin Haven is white 10% is black 5% is mixed with um Asian Native American um and other nationalities and so for us to have a black mayor is a huge thing in Northwest Florida is huge and so I don't think it's because of that however our community does so we got to be careful with that but I think it's always weird that whenever I decide to exercise my rights that I'm saying I'm retaliating or my rights in my freedom of speech is always called into question I just don't understand that um it was said that uh that we were elected to help us Mr Walker said that Friday commissioner War said that he wanted the truth to come out um and I guess commissioner W this is a question in regards to ethics and values um on October 27th 2017 because we're talking about you know past things you made a Facebook post that appalled me um and I saw it years AO ago and it offended me too as an African-American you said I can't believe they're going to invite this POS to a meeting between players and owners that was referring to Colin Kaepernick did you remember posting it commissioner Ward are we really going to go there I'm we're talking about wait wait wait we're talking about ethics and values and integrity and past actions I'm just asking that you make that post we say we want the truth to come out yeah I did remember making a post about Colin Kaepernick I don't remember exactly what I said so October 27 2017 that's that's evidence that's record um also I mean this is what y'all want right I mean we wait wait wait wait this is this is how yall want us to act in our meetings you are absolute also when we say that this isn't personal with Ricky Ry we can't live by double standards we can't we can't live by double standards can't live by double standards we can't live by double standards we can't call out one person and then think that's an Applause and then call out somebody else and then everybody gets upset said about it we can't no ma'am we're not talking back not we just can't have a double standard so if we're going to bring out ethics and morals and values we have to talk about it all we say this isn't personal Ricky Ramy listen we say this isn't personal again watch this now now that I've said something nobody everybody came up and applauded commissioner Ward for calling out Ricky Remy on his ethics and values but now I'm getting challenged that's what I'm talking about a double standard also if we're talking about this isn't personal with r Ry or with Comm or with city manager in the election of 2021 there was a tent setup outside that had Rich Walker Judy Tinder commissioner Ward Ellen Fields Jerry Parker and jod Moore now they're going to deny this but they're lying when they do that Mr Walker led the conversation on how they were going to come into office this man of the police department fire Ricky Ramy h a city clerk fire city manager and then put that person in place now you may forgot about it but you said it and so we say this again I told you you're going to deny it so if you deny it you're lying and so I deny it I deny it I deny it you're lying um and so what happens is this is the truth coming out this is the truth coming out we didn't want the truth to come out so this is the truth coming out this is the truth coming out we all want the truth right so this is the truth coming out so you can be upset you can be mad but here's the thing you all want to come up here to the podium and throw Stones Throw swords throw all of that and just want me to sit here and say nothing don't want my wife to come here and say anything as if my kids don't get offended as if it doesn't bother us you can record it that's fine yeah that's fine however whenever the truth comes comes back now we're hurt we're upset we're mad we're angry we're embittered we can't live by a double standard I have my freedom of speech just like you have your freedom of speech and so we should all be able to you want me to listen to you and you want us to not you know interrupt you you want us to make sure that we're engaging with you but then when we have our freedom of speech it's the same way all right so the thing is is that we can't have a double standard in the city of Lin Haven all right what do it say what's good for the goose is good for the gander is that something like that some kind of statement all right so let's just be mindful that when we're throwing stones that we don't live in a glass house and that's for me too that's for me too that that's that's for me too so um that is my report moving on to the city manager report we did yeah I'm not the previous mayor so no I wasn't on trial in Tallahassee or didn't get arrested by the police um um don't have a fing any charge don't have any of that so no I'm not the previous mayor I'm actually a handsome guy so I'm not the previous mayor at all so we're trying to move on with our meeting but I can do this all night I came off vacation for this so I can go on all night with this I should have yeah excuse me ma'am we're not talking back from the audience excuse me I didn't say anybody was racist what I'm saying is exactly this is what I'm saying and proving my point whenever I say something there's always something wrong with what I'm saying you're proving my point exactly any any why are you still talking then sir why are you still talking you all are interrupting the meeting we had moved on you all interrupted the meeting I could ask for point of order or I could ask for sergeant of arms to remove you but I'm not because we were ready to move on and then you all start speaking from the audience I didn't start addressing you you all start addressing me I did not start addressing you here we go again I did not do that ma'am I'm not turning tables on everybody I did I say no one was a racist did I insinuating anyone was a racist what I'm insinuating and hopefully here's the problem people don't understand what I'm saying is exactly you're proving my point what I said was anytime I say something my freedom of speech is always infringed upon I hope it's not because I'm black but whenever I say something my freedom of speech is infringed upon I made my I made my points now you all have retaliated against what I've said that's that's a violation of my freedom of speech so if you stop talking we will you're you're you're doing it now so city manager [Music] report good evening questions about the warrant list thank you thank you just a couple of things for July 4th that all residents should know the details uh on July 4th we're going to start a parade at 8:45 that comes down fth Street those folks on Fifth Street usually will sit out and have a parade there themselves and we love that but we just want to let you know that all of city of Lin Haven will just about be locked down because there there's so many floats we have over 80 floats we have a a flyover that's going to happen at 9:15 and so we're asking um that you probably be in place where you want to be or need to be be by 8:45 on 5th Street by 9:00 on Highway 77 it's really important because many of the the roads will be closed we'll post a map of the the closed roads and where we are where where all of the U folks will be lining up probably about Monday or Tuesday uh we will do that and so I just want to make sure that people understand it is going to be very crowded that morning and then it's going to be very crowded that night at uh 6 o' we have a concert and then at 7:30 of course Dina Carter comes in we probably anticipate a lot of people that that will be at this event um we have changed the way people will be sitting because a lot of the residents came to actually watch the fireworks and would say you know byow by the water we had so many trucks and cars lined up that's going to be seating only so there will not be any leeway to allow cars to come into um the the farthest part of kinol where the water is that is seating for people who actually want to watch the um the fireworks uh and we're probably going to cut turn cut off some of those roads fairly quickly so please let your friends know don't go and park your car early to get a a great seat or truck early by the water because you will not be able to do that we want people more people to be able to see what's going on and see the fireworks and we will put this out again our teams will travel travel Dizzy Dean World Series Wednesday June 25th and we wish them luck we have two 8 U teams we have two 10 U teams one 12 U teams W4 U teams and so all of those are traveling to the World Series and may win uh they came back last year they did really well so I want to make sure that uh they get the props that they needed or that they need uh we are flushing out the fire hydrants and so you may see uh people at night doing that you may see your water turn a little brown um when we flush out all of those hydrants we have over a thousand hydrants and we want to make sure um that people understand you may see a little little brown in your water just for for a little little bit but that's exactly what we'll be doing lastly people we have got to learn how to be kind and love each other we have got to be learn how to be kind you can put your head over your face you can say whatever you want to but I'm telling you kindness goes a long way we are not going to dis we are not going to agree about everything this is America we can do that we have rights to do that but we don't have to treat each other like trash and every and I will be very honest with you I sit here I love this city I do anything for this city but I sit here almost every commission meeting I've been bashed for six years y'all you you you have not heard anything in terms of me doing anything wrong but running a city I have been bashed so bad people come up to me all the time and I will tell you I get texts from people said the majority is behind you that's one of the reasons I keep doing this job because the majority is behind me so I'm telling you be kind let the process play out we should not be divided over this but we are and if you want really want to know the truth a lot of L Lin Haven citizens yes we disagree but there are pot stirs that are stirring you to get upset about something that something will happen but I'm just asking you to be kind and stop with the the horrible social media posts stop with calling people out of their names stop with that it's time out for that horrible we don't have to do that we live in a great country let's be kind and love each other please thank you so much right City attorney no report right moving on to our Cass agenda approval of minutes for 61124 regular meeting minutes approval to appoint Joe Brown to the infrastructure ctax oversight Committee in approval of the 1911 plat presidential paint program application for the residents located at 1505 Main Avenue is there a motion for this motion to approve second see amend if you call the vote commissioner perto yes commissioner vandagriff yes commissioner Peebles yes commissioner War yes and yes all right motion passed um discussion and possible approval uh moving on to agenda item number 11 discussion and possible approval of resolution 202454 29 fee schedule update uh director of planning and development and we did discuss this on Friday are there any additional questions for Miss Amanda there's no additional questions is there a motion to accept this motion to accept is there a second second all right motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner vandagriff is there comments from the public right City minute you to call the vote Yes I we the resolution first resolution of the city of Lin Haven Florida amending chapters 2 3 30 402 54 70 and 86 of the free fee schedule and appendix a of the landhaven and code of ordinances and providing for an effective date commissioner perno have to do it again because the resolution wasn't read before no yes commissioner Vandergriff yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner work yes right and discussion motion passed discussion and possible approval of resolution 20246 431 to amend the midyear budget 2023 2024 uh Director of Finance good evening um as we discussed uh last Friday uh when last I brought the budget to you I only had a few days to review there were certain areas of concern that uh Mrs Gainer and I discussed we've made some adjustments there's about a little bit more than a million dollars in this budget since last I brought it to you the primary focus or the primary amount of money has to do with the sewer department there was $782,000 to empty the pond and purchase the liner would you like me to go through the budget or do you have questions I have a question so uh on page 62 which is kind of like the overview of the totals I just wanted to um ask questions to kind of help me understand it so at the top in the resolution or in the top of the description of it it says that the impact to the city is 1.3 million and then at the bottom when it shows the approved fiscal year budget of 2024 it shows about $64 million and then the revised proposed midye it shows 64 461 644 yes yeah sorry I said that backwards so the difference there is only about 450,000 so I just want to I'm assuming I'm reading that wrong so could you so what happened was when the midyear budget that I brought you a month ago or so whenever it was it actually had decreased from the original 64 okay okay yep got it any other questions additional questions and just Clarity from the public the major change is what you mentioned in regards to the lining or the the purchase for them the sewer department yes and would you restate that amount again for the public for the sewer department um to empty the pond the labor to empty the pond and the liner combined $782,000 which was not originally budgeted okay thank you so that's our major Amendment for for this year budget correction okay all right any additional questions is there a motion for this motion to amend the midyear budget there a second I'll second it all right is there a comments from the public no comments see the manager if you call the vote we call the vote a resolution of the city of Lin Haven Florida amending the final V bu for the fiscal year 2023 2024 and providing for effective date commissioner perno yes commissioner Peebles yes commissioner Vander yes commissioner Ward yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed number 13 discussion and possible approval to award the contract for construction and C Griffin additional parking to 850 Construction Services LLC in the amount of $399,450 74 um yes sir did you have any more questions we discussed Friday no additional questions is there a motion for this motion to approve 850 Construction Services in the amount of 399 10474 I second is there comments from the public all right see we call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner vag yes commissioner Peebles yes commission Ward yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed number 14 discussion of possible approval to award the contract for the construction of the storm water improvements and Paving of the Senior Center parking area to American sand and Asphalt in the amount of $757,000 n65 yes this is for the Improvement to the storm water pond at Sheffield Park and the paving for the senior center are there any additional questions for Mr Baker so with the way this is set up I know there have been concerns in the past when we have events at cane Griffin I'm sorry this is k um Sheffield Park you know a kids crossing and that with this new plan would we be able to utilize the parking lots and still block off the road like when we have the concerts and stuff like that nothing will really change except for the paving of the Senior Center parking lot and this storm water Pond being increased it'll be enlarged to incorporate future parking which is permitted for it's just having to get the funding to do the rest of it okay thank you and Bobby just to be sure and I just want you to State it publicly that the enlarging of the pond it's it'll be it will be fenced off and safe for people not to get in there no it it it's be open it's not required to be fenced now if you would like it fenced we can do that but it's just want to be sure that um because it's going to go up to the sidewalk and all the it's going to be a lot bigger Pond right going be bigger but it's going to have that slope that allows it to not be fenced okay it's like the southern end of it no it's not FC it's a lot smaller yeah it's just going to be wider on this end longer is it going to take up most of that parking about all of it yes the parking will be gone that gravel lot is there any way we can make parking out of that grassy area well if you looked on the plans I gave you that is potential future parking potential yes and it's the storm water is permitted to do that and pave that big open area and it's just a matter of getting future funding to finish it if we build the pond the permit is still good for four more years to build the parking lot so we're going to have a parking problem whenever we have like the um concerts for a little while cuz I bet there's probably 35 40 cars that park there when we have the concerts yes that that'll go away yeah okay all right addition of questions from Mr Baker is there I have a question sorry the paving will be just in front of the senior center it won't extend any further correct will the drive be also the drive drive coming in yes it'll be paid and we do have plans for for future growth like we all of this infrastructure we're putting in place is for future development so at some point we will PVE the entire parking area in the senior center great additional questions is there a motion I moveed to approve the additional [Music] parking contract and the construction of the storm water area is there a second for this second right motion by commissioner vrff second by commissioner perno comments from the public right see the minut if you call the vote commissioner Vander Griff yeah commissioner Peebles perno Excuse me perno yes commissioner Peebles yes commission Ward yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed um discussion and possible approval toward the constru contract for the construction of the West 26 Street Sou walk to BCL silver contract is Incorporated in the amount of 422,000 you skip the agenda item around number 15 all right thank you trying to read off this small phone here all right I should have got the bigger size all right discussion and possible approval toward the contract for construction of 8th Street sidewalk to BCL civil Contractors Incorporated in the amount of $334,500 yes this is the sidewalk from on 8th Street from Iowa Avenue to Colorado Avenue will be on the north side of the street all right there additional questions for Mr Baker right is there a motion for this motion to approve the sidewalk on 8th Street from Iowa to Colorado Colorado it's where thead makes that huge dip down Y A lot of people using it all right is there a second I'll second all right motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner Peebles uh comments from the public yes sir Connie Basher 81 Louisiana Avenue I would just like to thank the commission and thank Bobby for taking this project on the sidewalk from Iowa to Colorado has been needed for a very long time I think we had a fatality just the east of that before but right now people coming going out of the country club walking running in the mornings they have to run and walk on the roadway there I really appreciate that the commission is doing this thank you yes sir additional public commentary C man you call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner pebles yes Commission vandagriff yes commission War yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed discussion and possible approval to award the contract for construction of the West 26 Street sidewalk to BCL civil Contractors Incorporated and the amount of $222,300 125 any excuse go ahead this is the section of sidewalk on 26 street that goes from 77 to jinx Avenue very busy pedestrian and walkways and Commissioners if you remember this was actually a request from a resident uh because of all the traffick and kids coming backwards and forth to school we love it when we can do things that um residents have requested and this really is a a good project like to make a motion to approve the project I'll second right motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner pees comments from the public see the man if you call the vote commission perno yes commission pebles yes commissioner W yes commissioner Vandergriff yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed all right discussion and possible approval of the scope of services in agreement with M McDonald in the amount of $3,487 th000 and an allowance up to $245,000 for the advanced wastewater treatment facility Engineering Services this is the long awaited start of our wastewater treatment plan expansion um as you all know um in the in the previous years um we have committed to D that we would start design in fiscal year 2024 and here we are and we we did an RFQ that you all approved uh the city to move forward with negotiations with Mont McDonald we have gone through our negotiations and this is the summary of task order and fees associated with it so that we can begin with questions for Mr lot I I do where it says that an allowance up to 245,000 I mean that in the contract I read the contract they already had a set amount for uh the the Engineering Services but is this saying that if they need to it can go up yes so the allowance um is broken down in the chart like uh task 1.1 for example the permit renewal like for request for additional information so if D comes once we submit the permit and then D requests additional information that is an allowance to cover whatever is additional needed and each task has a pretty much same thing for that okay all right additional questions commission pees so basically uh we're doing the way what I heard you say was that the D basically is making us do this correct per state statute once your um Wastewater Plant gets to certain capacity you have to start Your Design expansion we have surpassed that so it is time for us to start the expansion and that we're looking at what currently about $50 million project after this for the for the construction yep so I guess this is just kind of a reminder for everybody up here we got to we got to start looking forward to what we can do to make that happen because uh $50 million that's more than our well it's just under our current budget you know so um of course it'll be over a long period of time to pay it off but I just encourage everyone to think think of things that we can do to make that happen and part of that allowance that commissioner Vander Griffin mentioned too is you know whatever funding options that the commission decides to pursue when the time comes that M will also assist with that like the srf funding if that's the route they go or a bond if that's the route they go so there is allowances in there to help with that right and we uh city manager and I have been in contact with electus over the past couple of years so for example when uh Congressman dun came to town and looked at our new uh updates to our facilities we also took him by um the waste water treatment plant so he could see you know what we needed and at that time we were estimating about 35 to 40 but we did throw out and say probably going about $50 million just to put that in in his mind and the staff's mind is at the federal level to see if there's funding there because um and of course we've talked with uh our state Senator Senator Trumble also um State Rep Comm um Griff Griffiths as well about the need for this moving forward to see if there's some uh grants or other funding out there so that we won't have to one put all of the burden on us as the citizens or two have to you know take on another $50 million within debt so we'll say that is something that we've been forward thinking about seeing this project coming up um that's why we're making a big push to try to get support for the uh the head works so that if we could get some matching funds for that then it'll help us on the back end with this million project but uh you know $3 million is a drop in the bucket with with that 50 million that's coming so we'll keep working at that as well and I would sure hope that if it's required by the D that they're going to be willing to help us with the federal at least somebody if you're going to put a requirement on us yeah usually usually they don't work that way and we've brought that up as well uh city manager and I brought that up in a meeting with uh representative Griffiths that um when we're required to do these things can there be some assistance and funding for that for example with the expansion on 390 you know we're required to move but there was no assistance for that so we brought that to his attention saying hey when these requirements are made is it possible that we can also receive some assistance for those requirements because it puts us you know $500,000 a million dollar in the hole for something that we didn't budget or plan for for something that we didn't need per se um especially when it's coming from the state so those are some things that we're asking about but usually it doesn't work that way but hopefully you know something like that'll change in the future it's an unfunded mandate they're they're famous for that uh I work for the federal government so you should be very familiar [Laughter] yes um Mr life but as we look to the Future the um the $50 million project that we're speaking of is a is is is that an expans of the full Wastewater Plant or is it possible one day that we might not have a Wastewater Plant on the water and and build one you know in a more of an interior part of our town relocating the Wastewater Plant would be well over $50 million um this is the $50 million that's talked about of this expansion is to go from a 2.5 million gallons a day plant to a 4.5 million gallons a day plant there will be a day that we exceed that I'm sorry there will be a day that we exceed that um I mean with the potential for Len Haven to continue to grow yes um but I mean there's not much more that you can grow to to go above the 4.5 without growing North we've got a lot to think about for our future so it's very expensive is there a motion for this yes I'd like to make the motion that we improve the the engineering is there a second I'll second motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner B Griff comments from the public I just have a question um for the benefit of my readers um well if you don't get funding for this from another source well the 5year plan is that the city will still be $13 million in debt is this going to add to that has this not been budgeted I just want to clarify that for clarification no it has not been formally budgeted because the price has been varying over the years um and it depends on what our financing options are so if it's $13 million in debt is where we are and if we have to go into debt to get this um then we may not have a choice as I've said before we don't want a poop problem in Haven and that's what it's going to cause or if we don't expand then we cannot continue to do the building that we're doing in L Haven as well because our infrastructure um won't be able to handle the new homes that are coming for example we're getting ready to vote or discuss in the next few moments about an apartment complex is bringing in another 134 homes that's a we may not want to be frank about it but that's an additional 100 plus toilets that are going on that system um and if three people stay in there that's you know 500 to 1,000 FL you know 600 flushes a day that's going into our current system and houses are being built all over um apartment complexes are still going up and so we don't want to get into the position where we're not able to continue to build because then that would kill the growth of our city and so it's um something that is necessary I will say since I've been mayor it is something that we have been discussing which is one reason why our city manager um behind the scenes has been very diligent to make sure that we have not Reed our debt so that we've been actually planning if you want to say have we been budgeting for this the answer is yes and no have we put it in the budget to say we're budgeting for the wastewater treatment plant no have we tighten our belt to make sure we're not using excessive funds so that we can be prepared when this moment comes yes and so we've been going on a since I've been mayor um and a part of the commission we've been going on a very streamlined budget um because I do hear from the staff like man I wish I could get more money I wish I could get more money or let's roll this over to you know the next fiscal year because we can't spend that money in this year or we can't do that project this year because we have been planning for this and so this is something that's been discussed since I've been here for the past three years and I know even before then in talking with Bobby and others that has been something that's been on the horizon for several years so have we budgeted for it in a formal adopted way no have we been preparing for this day yes we have been we've just been hoping that we don't have to go and take take a $50 million loan or $50 million bond in the entirety of it in order to fund this project so that's what we're hoping so we're you know our our team is looking at various ways that we can fund this without having to take on that entire amount and then putting that weight back on the city um in regards to debt so great question though right more public yes sir I was going to ask this for the next one but I'll bring it up now since we're talking about Wastewater um at what point does the city of Lin Haven reach its Max Capacity for development to the point where development can no longer occur because the wastewater treatment plant hasn't been built um we're talking about 154 units here there's other ones going in expansion plans for you know phases over by North Bay and things like that at what point does linh Haven go no more large development and at what point do they go no more single House Development because everything's maxed out so there are State statutes that require uh at D to basically put a moratorium on the permits for any City that exceeds their capacity and we are not there quite yet um but if we ever get to that point before an expansion was done that's exactly what D would do um every development has to be R modeled in our Hydra water and sewer systems and it's you know recommendations are made the next item that you all have to approve the first um submittal that they did they had to upsize some water lines to be able to meet it as part of their development um so each development is modeled and and HD into that and then each development also has to submit a d permit for water and sewer that D reviews as well to our plant so if it gets to where we cannot handle it then D would not approve any permits until we expanded all right any other comment from the public yes ma'am marene Harrison 904 Michigan Avenue I just have a question I'm um not familiar uh with hope we pay 3.4 $3.5 million for a scope of services I'm sure it's detailed out what a scope what's what is what that includes but it's kind of doesn't make sense to me but it's obviously something that is long overdue to uh improve the infrastructure in the city the water the this uh sewer system you're right I don't know how you're going to fund it but we seriously need I also was nervous when I saw that $3.4 million but after I uh reading the contract the contract's very specific and it covers from the very beginning to the very end I mean you can't even make the last payment to the contractors without um M McDonald saying that everything is perfect I mean they're responsible for getting permits and it's very detailed and along with the the timeline that we talked about and the the intensity of the contract um just so that everyone knows the the public the planning phase of this is about five months the design phase is approximately 15 months and then it would be the bid and construction phase um which is about 39 months total uh between biding construction and post construction so it is a very long process it's not something that we are going to be bringing back in months and saying hey we're ready to bid the Wastewater Plant it is going to be a long process um and it will be a lot of work before us to get it done mayor for the cost too um and I'm going to steal this fact from our engineer that back in 2016 uh when Panama City expanded their Wastewater Plant it was approximately $4 a gallon for construction cost and today it's about $25 a gallon in construction cost so that puts a in Prospect the difference um and the in increase in cost over the past what's that eight years now right thank you you said it's $25 G dollar a gallon $25 per gallon yes ma'am we should have got it done back in [Music] 2016 all right uh with the motion uh any other comments city manager if you call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner Vandergriff yes commission pebles yes commissioner War yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed our quad a Judicial public hearing open at 6:55 p.m. and if you'll swearing with the city attorney you swear affirm the testimony you'll give tonight is the truth and nothing but the truth I do Harold I'm waiting for the presentation it's on ours here it is I've got it thank you thanks Harold this is an application for a development order the project name is Bedford Park Town Homes and this is a Quai judicial public hearing the applicants are mcford 26 LLC the owner is is the same the agent is Scott Rutherford scr and Associates nwfl uh he is here and the owner is here tonight so they are both here to answer any questions that you have the project engineer is Scott Rutherford scr and Associates Northwest Florida the reviewing engineer is Chris short from dubre so he reviews the plans the storm water for us he is also here if you have any questions and the reviewing traffic engineer is Vincent Spa PE from kimley horn um if you will recall we do have uh requirements now for developments to submit a traffic impact analysis that analysis varies depending upon the size of the project but because this is so large it did kick in the full uh requirement for the traffic impact analysis and then we send it to our review viewing Engineers kimley horn just as we do with the storm water we send that to dubber because they are all experts parcel number 11823 08-00 is located on East 26th Street and the property size is approximately 31.1 6 Acres there are three future land use map categories located upon this parcel 6.48 acres is mixed juice which allows for a density of up to 20 dwelling units per acre there is 11.8 Acres of high density residential which again would allow for up to 20 dwelling units per acre and 12.88 Acres of conservation the conservation cannot be constructed upon and we also have a 30 foot buffer setback so the conservation is safe they are not not going for the full density that they could have under those 20 dwelling units per acre they could have potentially up to 300 dwelling units on there if they wanted to put apartments on there they're actually asking for 154 because they want to build Town Homes the only way they would get that full density is by going up with Apartments they don't want to do Apartments so um the recommendations that we had so obviously this was all reviewed and found to be in compliance with the city's unified Land Development code storm water requirements and also state requirements the uh City's contracted traffic engineering consultant does recommend following his review of multiple submissions of uh the traffic impact analysis that an eastbound turn lane at the intersection of East 26 Street and County Road 380 Northeast Avenue is needed to address a capacity deficiency that would occur at that intersection with the addition of the project traffic so it's already busy with this traffic added to it there would be a deficiency at buildout he recommended that the turn lane should be at least 200 ft in length with 150 ft of that being storage of cars and a 50ft taper the Planning Commission Rec amended when it went before them approval conditioning conditional upon the construction of the eastbound right turn lane at that intersection this areial shows you um in red the property on East 26th Street you can see Minnesota Avenue over there on the west and can you see on Highway 389 where there's a circle this point there is oh it's it's up on the wall follow it down it doesn't really work on there well but um where that circle is that's the intersection where um the failure basically and level of servicing capacity would occur if the uh turn lane was not installed this shows you the different land juices so what you see here um in the top Corner that the purple stripes that's the mixed juice the brown is the high density residential and all of that green is conservation which won't be touched in your packets also was the plan this is the site plan you can see that there are two entrances on 26th Street uh then you've got three different storm water ponds and you can see that on the Southwest there are just a few at the bottom there are just a few units there um the way that this has been designed has been designed this way so as not to impact the Wetland [Music] that's why it's such a strange shape and then also included was the landscape buffer that's required along the uh East 26th Street um I did get some emails uh from some people wondering uh if there was going to be fencing separating them and the H The Hammocks are concerned about how this project will impact them there will be fencing perimeter fencing there is not a thoroughfare through from this project through the hammock so people won't be able to cut through The Hammocks to get to school um and um if you have any further questions I'll be happy to answer them if I can or we do have all the experts here tonight to help you right there's additional questions from the [Music] commission I may um my cons I'm glad we have this map up because um um I mentioned in the pre meeting um I know it's on 200 entrances are on 26th Street we're looking at 154 units um I I you [Music] know we already know what happens on Minnesota during school hours just looks like a a lot a lot of traffic's going to get dumped on the on that way cuz people people want to get to Highway 77 I know I know they're going to be 4 fortifying or wanting to fortify 389 but I just I just think we're going to have a a huge failure on that Minnesota road would you like the uh traffic engineer to come up I I would hi there you looked at um you you looked at Minnesota Avenue did you look at all hours of the day or what hours did you use and what was your calculation for the amount of vehicles at the capacity of 154 units yeah so just to be clear the applicant had their own traffic engineer we reviewed it on behalf of the city but I can answer those questions nonetheless um the the trip generation expected with 154 units of this town home use we refer to it as single family attached sometimes is uh 89 p.m peak hour trips 55 of them headed in and 34 headed out did you say 8 to 900 p.m. 8 89 during the PM peak hour no so sorry that's that's the PM peak hour of the adjacent Street traffic which is generally sometime between 4:00 and 6 p.m so there was no morning study done the study we did not we the city we did not ask them to evaluate the am peak hour the PM peak hour is generally speaking the the higher of the two and from a chip gener trip generation standpoint that would be the higher trip gener CHP trip generation uh for the use itself as well got it okay we can you know to that end as we you know in this case because it was not asked of them we wouldn't we wouldn't hold it against them that they didn't study the am peak hour in the future if that's something that the city is concerned about we've been down that road before with mil Bayou um and it was about school traffic and on Mo Minnesota Avenue holds a lot of school traffic for Mosley High School just I just think that we need to take a look at am am hours and because I know that road already fails at that time anyway but um and I'd like to know I mean cuz if you look at the Jake's Landing and and the the the two the two town home communities that we've approved and have over there um on 389 right now um I mean there there's two cars in every driveway you know and that's that's two cars per unit and and I think what we're what what we're say what they're ciphering is that it's probably only one car because what I'm hearing is 80 89 out 54 in or whatever and I just I just don't know if we're we're talking about the the real world World capacity that we're about to embark on on a proven and and I don't know you guys probably got the same emails I got in the short amount of time from pre- meeting to meeting there's a lot of people concerned about this so yeah I've gotten some emails some conversations want to bring up the the I just want to Echo the sentiments of of what what you know what's been what's been brought to us already so and with that I'll just I'll leave it up to you guys after this can you explain the math a little bit of the 0.94 and the 1.06 I'm assuming one is the level that you don't want to go over the VC ratios yeah so it's volume to capacity ratio volume divided by capacity right and that capacity changes based on all of the different factors at an intersection how many lanes are there how many vehicles are there coming from each Direction This intersection in particular that's kind of the subject of the the concern with this this you know additional turnl that's being requested uh the there are left turn Lanes along the mainline 389 approach there are no turn Lanes on the eastbound or westbound approaches but those are stop controlled so one one lane shared by all movements um and so yes that that in the background condition which is the they they went out there and collected traffic counts at the existing intersection during that PM peak hour to understand how many how many trips are out there now they applied a moderate growth rate to develop that to the Future conditions that would that would occur regardless of the development you know in in I think it was a year or two years and then that's when that's where the volume to capacity ratio on that approach landed at 0.94 or 0.96 whichever it was just under one right and that's generally you know they're you may still see some delays when you start getting up to 085 0.9 um but it's generally accepted that the as long as you are under that 1.0 number traffic will ultimately eventually find its gaps and be able to to kind of dis first through the intersection when you get over one it becomes a compounding problem and those those vehicles that aren't able to find the gaps they they get longer and longer delays and you start to get where you're waiting a minute and a half two minutes and then you maybe are going to make an unsafe maneuver to try to get into the interception and we don't want that that safety condition to occur um and so by the the right turn lane that was actually initially proposed by the applicant and then later kind of retracted and said wait we don't want to do that that right turn Lane we just agreed that yeah that's a good idea that will help seminate some of that traffic allow those right turns to separate from the lefts and the throughs and ultimately allow the intersection to perform at an acceptable level is that 0.94 with or without the turn lane without okay additional questions for engineer who who actually owns 26th Street is that ly Haven 26th Street or is it County or Panama City on that is ly Haven I don't know the I understand some of these traffic studies how they they look at the numbers they they read the the the things that they put out and everything and it's just been so much development that's gone on 389 and there's one thing when you look at a traffic study and it tells you one thing and then reality of what actually happens and I think we've all kind of alluded to do it on at the pre-commission meeting we just see a I don't want to say a disaster but you know a cluster about the form there that uh it's going to create a lot of problems and I just I don't know what else we can do legally I don't know if we can increase the scope of the traffic study um something you know um I don't I don't know if a turn lane I'm sure it's going to help but I don't I don't know I don't think it's going to be enough my opinion is this something that you all might consider tabling so we can think a little bit more about it I think we should table or we should um possibly do a workshop on it you know because I think there'll be a lot of citizens that want to want to want to come and express their opinions on it and whatnot and because you know we got Cameron's Crossing coming out to 389 right there but like I said we still haven't we still haven't talked about Minnesota Avenue and and and and the time a day when it's when when we're going to be putting people heading to 77 on it you know so I just I just think we're not fully given the best the best shade of information to the to the people who are going to be impacted by this until we until we um till we get our heads around what we got to require from them not only that the property in the corner of Minnesota I know this is our first dialogue with you you know so I think we really got we got we got more questions to ask and and we we we and and definitely we want to hear from our citizens about it so yeah I know that property on the corner of Minnesota they've tried developing on that multiple times Unfortunately they weren't able to get the grant that they wanted but one day will and so yeah if that happens that's going to be yeah a huge problem in my opinion so I forgot about that property there on the corner um yeah so so uh is there a motion for this can I can I just ask one question um there was I've reached multiple people reached out to me about the ReUse water and I know we've had problems in the past of running out of reuse water um this from my understand this development I think is using plans on using reuse water correct correct it does and um I know the hammocks they they have a tie in I don't think they use it now but they have a tie in with their retention Pond to use that for um reuse water is that correct so the hammock does have City reuse water as well and then back in the early 2000s when St Joe built The Hammocks they actually had installed a pond a pump in their Pond and they pull some of the storm water uh Pond down for irrigation but they do use a good bit of the Cities reuse water as well now per our they do use some of the retention pound water for are yes they do use some of that as well um I know something to think about I know this is a little off topic but whenever we go over the comprehensive plan un LDC um I don't know if we can make it a requirement uh for new developments when they do a retention Pond to use that for irrigation because not only the H that'll help decrease the load uh for for reuse rot water but it hopefully would help with storm water too because if you you know you use the water from retention Pond and and um that'll have more space available for storm water to go to so just something to think about I like that idea I do have one question too just um before this is more so I think for Amanda but uh so I was looking at the packet and they have not done a tree survey yet I believe what part of the process would they do that I I just know that like speaking of storm water we all know that how important trees are for preventing storm water so I'm just curious we we would have asked that I can't remember I've been so involved in the traffic Skip and Scott are here don't have that information in the packet survey you remember how many trees we I know we're doing a mitigation plan the number of trees that were coming out with me they have to pay for the trees when they pull their permit and they'll pay their mation any tree that's over8 in and actually I believe there's also a option of replanting with a certain size tree at breast height at at maturity that's what we've chosen to do um this area hav lost so many trees during during the storm I'd rather replant and have some trees growing rather rather than paying to mitigate them and there are trees I didn't give you the whole I gave you the boundary for the landscape that we require but we also have going down through through the project we have where trees are going to be planted around the storm water ponds and things that aren't required by our boundaries but that they are going to plant in because of the trees that are coming out but I did I didn't put because that's some I didn't put all that in that's not something that we usually you know discuss as a tree mitigation with the development order we take care of it if you want us to start putting that in the packets that's definitely something we can do but we make the calculations of the amount of money how many thousands they have to give us or they want to then they can plant the equivalent number of inches in trees and on our plans we have where the trees are going to go if this goes to Workshop then we'll be glad to bring that plan for you okay thank you additional questions I know there was some discussion about tabling some discussion about Workshop or just moving forward and approving approving as is um is there a motion um I'd like to I'd like to just continue the discussion just ask the rest of the commission how you feel about a workshop or or tabling to the next meeting or or another meet I mean we don't want to Workshop I mean cuz weit there's a lot of questions so I yeah we did get several emails I think even starting Friday I started getting emails from the pre-commission meeting so just think that would be the fair thing to to everyone involved I'd be good with a workshop yeah I'm fine with that are we going to require more additional traffic information but we we go from there I think we what commissioner perno suggesting is that we have the workshop to discuss and more detail what we would like to see from the development or from the developer yeah that that that's one one of the questions that up my mind but and you used to talk about trees but are we talking about trees that are alive or dead you know there's a lot of broken trees over there so you know that's that that that that whole that whole portion of land is the the H of dead trees over there you know they don't have to mitigate for dead trees don't no damn shame because there's a lot of them all right Workshop um you have to ask city manager if we can schedule one or how we want to do it She'll follow with us on a date she'll send out an email to all of us and um have a date for that so we'll continue this discussion via Workshop is there anything formally we need to do City attorney since we're in a quadrate Judicial hearing you'll need to republish notice once you have the date of that Workshop set okay um know Z you had some comments on 18 would you like to make your comments now let me come make them now it's fine everybody Zach de wer uh College Point Lin Haven um so really first off let me start by saying um I am very grateful and very happy that you guys started taking a deeper look into everything um you know going with the traffic studies and everything like that it shows that you guys were listening to the people and everything like that so commission mayor city manager you know uh City staff it is appreciated and is very helpful when we start looking at these things as a community so thank you um two things I wanted to bring up one obviously we're talking about traffic uh from the standpoint of evaluation um I don't think that we should just look at an aggregate number I know statistics are easy to look look at uh one thing that we haven't talked about is Road quality so fdot and and pretty much every do in the country talks about Road quality so they give it an A B C or D grade uh I believe this road is a d if not maybe a c uh it has no shoulders um it is I believe only a 20ft road surface it's not very large there's not a lot of space to maneuver if something goes wrong um because of that quality of road typically what that means is that uh you're likely to have road rage you're likely to increase your accident rate you're likely to have pedestrian accidents and with the addition obviously of the Rails Trails right there um you know that only increases that so when we're looking at these studies or when you guys are looking at these studies I want to bring up the fact that the road that they're going to be spilling out onto um probably should have a quality look and not just a quanitative look um for this I would recommend at least adding shoulders to the side of the road to make it so that if somebody pulls out you know you can kind of do this before you're hitting a mailbox or something like that realistically this road really needs to be expanded um there is going to be no way for all of these you know 300 to 500 residents to go a quarter mile to the rails Trails without either walking through uh snake infested grass or riding on the roadway and now you have pedestrians in the roadway on a 30 35 mph roadway it is a safety hazard um so when we're looking at these types of studies I I just want to bring those types of items up because it really is long-term planning for the community not just we build something and then we react later um reaction is the worst way to go in Emergency Management it is just everyone cringes when you say let's react instead of be proactive um the other thing I wanted to bring up is the storm water uh runoff um pretty much the reason that St Joe sold this property is because you have basically an X zone that is tall enough to build everything and then like you guys talked about the wetlands um if for whatever reason you have a storm event or a high rainfall event and it's overflowing is the Overflow going to go into the city sewer system and piped out and go to a catchment basin somewhere else or is it going to have to go through this conservation easement to get to the Lin Haven Basin on the west end or the um Canal Basin on the east side uh of which was cleaned out and paid for by nrcs which means that you guys have a requirement to maintain that there's a lot of debris in between where this is going to be built and that canalway so if that debris floods off because of a high rain event you guys are going to be responsible for cleaning that out or that grant funding could be pulled if you're still within that time period so I just want to bring those types of things up so that you guys are looking at and reviewing those types of things as well and not just this is what's in the scope of the plans it checks check box boxes thank you right thank you yes sir this is my first time here so I'm a little bit nervous uh but uh my property will be affected by all this here to give us your name I'm sorry my name is Joe Rodriguez and I lived at 802 East 26 street so there's uh lot 800 802 and8 804 4 Acres 2 acres and 4 Acres I'm in the 2 acre track this PE particular piece of property covers the scope of all three properties there my concern is that uh two three things really um and it's been addressed already the morning traffic report I can assure you that when I get up at 5:30 6 o'clock in the morning to put my trash out traffic is already barreling through there and I say that because I drive a little big BR truck and I go to these neighborhoods and so uh you have Jake you have mowet you have Cameron's Crossing you have Hawks Landing and 26th Street is the pass through so the traffic flow in the morning is intense um my other concern is the amount of outflow coming out of these tow houses will there be I think it's already been addressed that there will be two exits out of that is that going to be enough I think commissioner perno U stated that most and Jake uh have two cars so if you're talking about 154 times two you're talking 300 plus cars there coming out of that area um the other concern was just addressed also and is is the property the DP property um going to be part of that and as somebody mentioned is the Overflow going to be is that water be going to be going into that uh D area because right now as it stands you have drainage ditches on Minnesota that when it rains it floods and it overflows onto the street I speak with spoke with uh PWC director today about that and that's striping because once the water comes you can't see where your lane is so that's a big concern there my last concern would be is um although I have a linh Haven address I'm also I don't have um utilities there water and um sewer so is that going to be accessible at that point or is it going to be left as it is thank you right are we able to hold on I was going to try to wait one second Mr liot can you respond to his questions I'd rather wait till the workshop to confirm I want to look back at the plans and see um I spoke with Mr Rodriguez today about some of his concerns but I'd rather wait till the workshop or get with him after and verify to make sure that I answer him correctly okay thank you yeah I really think somebody needs to look at the morning traffic because my kids went to Mosley 10 years ago and that road was failing in the morning it's it's not good I think it's a little I I don't want to use the word dishonest but I think it's kind just a look at it in the evening I mean that's kind of crazy um now another thing is the turn lane there um since that is a city road I don't think anybody considered what's the cost of that and who's I'm assuming the city's going to have to pay for that so so okay okay I just wanted to know what the cost would be and if the cost to the city all right thank you all right so look for the public notice of the workshop U requires a Judicial hearing closes at 7:26 p.m. and public hearing 7:26 p.m. discussion and possible approval of plat approval so do we not need to do that since we're we can't we can't do this development order has to be first all right so closing public hearing at 726 and now moving on to our resolution for City Mutual okay want to read it yes please resolution number 20246 432 resolution of city of Lin Haven Florida adopting the State of Florida Division of Emergency Management Statewide Mutual Aid agreement authorizing the mayor to ex execute this agreement and providing an effective date right we discussed this on Friday um is there any further questions for the City attorney right is there a motion for this I move that we approve this resolution right motion by commissioner vff second by commissioner perno any comments from the public C if you call the vote commissioner vandagriff yes commission perno yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner wart yes mayor Nelson yes meeting [Music] adjourn for