e good evening it is Wednesday July 24th 2024 6 p.m I'd like to call to order the Board of Commissioners regular Workshop meeting city clerk would you call the role Mayor Brooks here mayor tagini here commissioner Kerr here commissioner mcgean here commissioner gay here all present thank you public comment public participation is encouraged if you are addressing the commission step to the podium and state your name and address for the record and the organization or group you represent please limit your comments to five minutes and do not include any topic on the agenda public comment on agendas will be allowed when they come up if you would like someone at the city to follow up on a comment or question made at the meeting you may fill out a comment card with the contact information and give it to the city manager comment cards are available at the back table in the commission Chambers completing a comment card is not mandatory do we have any public comment having no public comment we will move on to our first item which is the Board of Commissioners mayor commission pay mayor commission you have in the packet a little brief survey thank you to the clerk's office for compiling showing some comparisons with some of our neighboring jurisdictions um but this item is I think is a result of some resident input regarding to take a look at your the pay structure currently the mayor's rate of compensation annual compensation is $10,000 and Commissioners are $7,500 so really that's kind of a discussion it's listed in our Charter obviously that you are to be compensated and it goes a little bit over the the process um and what the salary ranges are um but and of course they've been updated uh via ordinances over the years but really this item is up to to all of you if you what you think the any changes uh should be made there is a time period um they would not go into effect I think it's at least a six-month time period before any increases do go into effect so in other words you're kind of not giving yourself a a raise but subsequent time period into the future Commissioners do you have any comments um to that last point that um Robin just made so anything that we would pass if it would passed in October it would not be effective actually until 2026 yeah it's listed here in the charter how the time period that you would any increase in salary shall become effective the date of commencement of the terms of Commissioners elected at the next regular election provided that such election follows the adoption of an ordinance by at least 6 months so you would have to adopt an ordinance for the increases and at least six months have to elapse after um and but if those six months go over the next election then it would not take effect until the following year's election so we are currently still more than six months out but we're getting close because we could have a first reading in August and then the second reading in September which would be right at about the six-month period from the next regular election we would have to September to adopt it yeah it would be need to be adopted in September at the September 14th regular meeting Commissioners any other comments I I've I've given my opinion on this before I I'm not interested in changing uh anything drastically but I do want to make the point that uh I'm going to speak for myself I'm retired I don't need the income uh and many boards not ours but many boards that's the entire board is made up of retired people who don't need or or they are wealthy enough they don't they don't need the income um would it attract a different kind of person if we had at least enough of a salary to make it a decent second job um the case can be made that well we only put in every other week well I don't I'm sure that you guys spend more than two hours every other week doing your job I know I I put aside sometimes a whole day just to do the city work and then later on answer emails would we get a a different kind of person if we offered at least enough for it to be a second job right they have full full-time job but this would be a nice supplement and I'm just throwing that out there because I feel like it might draw in some younger participation frankly so that's all uh I I'm not I'm not suggesting we do anything drastic I just wanted to make that point Thank you so I took what was provided by the city clerk um and I don't I think it would have been better or nicer or more beneficial for us if all of the coastal communities had been listed on this but I went and looked at their population of each City in 2022 to get an idea of where we are at in pay scale compared to our sister communities and Indian Rocks Beach in 2022 had 3658 residents and St Pete Beach had 8798 residents we had 3,9 48 when I look at that to it it appears that we are in line with what other Coastal communities that are comparable to us are paying my personal opinion is that it is a civic duty this isn't about somebody making a living or a supplemental income in my opinion sitting up here um we are only required to work two nights a month whether a commissioner chooses to attend additional meetings be more involved in the community as a representative that's up to us and I think to offer a salary to attract someone to come and work just for the money isn't the the idea of civic duty and we all sit here and volunteer in various different ways we all do different ways of giving to this city um but the real commitment is only twice a month and you don't even have to come twice a month to stay in your seat um and I said this when we talked about other things offering other benefits was that my my concern would be if we're offering more money or more things are we attracting someone who's civically minded to serve the city or are we attracting someone who's after a paycheck and I'm more inclined to keep it where it is um we actually pay more than our neighboring cities that are on this particular sheet we were provided in comparison to Residents um and I think that we should all be really proud that we get to sit here it's an honor that is my opinion well um I don't think anyone whether you're a a millionaire or or not going to turn down a race even if it's a small one I believe in any field uh we need to stay a little bit uh competitive with our neighbors and uh I believe that we should offer at least another 3,000 to the Commissioners um or the number can be different but something to attract uh more people to get in into uh politics for our city I love madira Beach I'm not doing it for the money I I love our beaches I love our community I love our people I go to almost everything I can go to um just to be a part of this city and uh looking forward to working with everyone here in the near future so thank you well I'm I'm here to um to give back I'm very civic-minded I love my community I'm not here because of money I'm here because um I feel it's it's a duty that you know we should we should have to serve a community I am not in favor of a race great points made by all um and that's the Dilemma the um you know attracting people and is it going to attract the right people um one question question is are is the Board of Commissioners part of the um Civil Service um study that we approved or is it just staff do you know the compensation St no just the staff just the STA just the STA okay I was hoping that they could give a recommendation um and I was hoping I Could Kick the Can because of that and um it wouldn't impact anything until 2026 given that you need the six months since that's not an option well I think if you just take what we were provided madira Beach Indian Rocks and St Pete Beach we are the highest paid City by quite a number well not necessar or the mayor is excuse me the mayor is um not necessarily not um well when you take just those three just those three because the other municipalities aren't really Coastal communities to us right um no I I agree and and I'm I'm happy with the way everything is um everyone here on the board is doing it for the right reasons we have a great board um everyone's here to to give back and and to try to give their vision of what the city should be make the right decisions for the city because this is our home and um that's the that's the type commissioner that you want to attract now it is tough to get Commissioners it's I think the year that um commissioner or vice mayor tagini and I ran was the last time we really had competition in the races that was the same year that um mayor rosc was in we all had comp competion but there hasn't been any competition in the last few years um but I would be in I don't I don't think a raise is going to make someone decide that they're gonna they're going to run I think we're I think we're just fine the way we are personally mayor if I could just make one follow-up comment I just want to make sure that my my discussion was not misrepresented uh so I can I can speak with authority about my situation years ago when we had a uh a board of adjustment I was on the board of adjustment it was couple maybe a couple decades ago years ago o that Hur saw your name so I saw your name and I resigned after about six months because I just couldn't do what I thought was the proper amount of work to do to do a good job but in the back of my mind uh I thought when I retire uh I'm going to run I'm going to do something for this city because I love this city and I want to have an input on what goes on if the salary had been more I can speak with authority and say I might have ran I might have run sooner because I was working a full-time job uh and but I still wanted to do this but if it was a supplement it was extra money that would actually help me it would might have enticed me so I'm not suggesting that anyone who should come get this job because it pays so well absolutely not but if it supplement Ed them we might get people who are interested but can't because they're full-time they work full-time so I mean like commissioner McAn says I mean even just $3,000 somebody says hey that's $10,000 man I've always wanted to do that that'll this will supplement me so I just I don't want to I want to make sure my my point is is not misrepresented I'm not trying to use money to attract people I'm trying to make it a realistic opportunity for people to uh to consider that's all thank you for that extra comment understood any other comments do we have to vote no no a work J this is just to have a discussion to see if we would want to bring it to a vote if you any public oh yes do we have any public comment we have no public comment we will move on to the city manager parking garage thank you mayor and for several years the city has had a capital project or is a listing of included in its capital projects a parking garage and the original or location when I arrived a couple of years ago was at a city-owned surface parking lot on the west side of Gulf Boulevard at 130th Avenue West which is sort of an L-shaped lot um a kind of an odd-shaped lot has I think 75 parking spaces or approximately it has been utilized and still utilized as a visitor uh parking lot in the time that I've been here I've received numerous just in speaking with literally probably a couple of thousand visitors um dozens of or probably a few hundred residents and dozens of businesses it came to my attention or having those discussions that a parking garage would likely be a much better uh attraction better utilized and certainly provide a much more one provide more adequate parking and more of an economic benefit if such a structure would go in John's Pass Village um so the item or the purpose of this discussion is to kind of go over um with you and have your feedback and certainly any public that's here uh on the location or if there's a preference for location or how to proceed um also if we want to proceed with a garage I think the intent has been to proceed with one um but recently I had several folks say well you know there's already a parking garage in the village I yes we're I'm aware um it is privately owned um but it but there is already a garage in John's Pass Village and Boardwalk area um so regardless the U this item again to show you the a proposed location what I just stated an alternative to what uh was essentially the original U location there are and I'll put up a map on the on the screen here in a moment there are currently three U property owners of the location um I guess I'm going to call it the alternative location or the location in the village uh um the property owners being the city of madira beach um Looper real estate and 130001 Gulf Boulevard LLC and the Veterans of Foreign Wars um Holiday Isle post 4256 so the three um owners uh between the three of them there are seven uh parcels and just I I'm not in the community Development Department although I should have asked him for a much more professional kind of listing but we'll get a a much more rather than the rudimentary of identifying these are this is a um we go back to the previous one the red area delineates the prop a proposed area for the parking garage that's inside John's Pass Village it is bound by Gulf Boulevard on the West 129th Avenue what uh 129th Avenue on the south side and then Village Boulevard on the east side so it it the the area in effect forms is more of a triangular shape um than than anything else within that area there are seven Parcels as I stated with three owners Parcels five six and seven on the Eastern side of the triangle are the city-owned parcels uh they are currently used as surface parking and there is a structure that contains public restrooms and then the M the rest of the structure is leased um to an entity as a retail outlet retail store and then the remaining part up on parcel five kind of the small triangle uh is really just open space uh there's some picnic benches and some paved area and part of the sidewalk on the west side of the large triangle Parcels 124 through four um one two and three are owned by the two private entities that I mentioned Looper real estate and the gulf um Gulf Boulevard 13 001 should have memorize them 130001 Gulf Boulevard LLC um and then parcel four again owned by the Veterans of Foreign Wars or the VFW um they the seven Parcels are listed after the rout of map um the parcel number of the ownership just the data obtained from the penel County Property Appraiser's office also shows that uh each parcel with the exception of the city's surface um Lots uh the surface lot or the majority of it do have structures on them all you know four of the five structures are essentially retail um Outlets or one two five of the six the six structure being the the VFW which houses their dining um dining bar area and then a conference room some bathrooms and some storage uh but they're again when you go down to the parcel they're parcel the square footage almost 7,000 square feet um of again of which most of that is utilized for their members and then for a variety of public events the remaining areas of the Parcels including the structures are open to the public uh mainly for retail whether you're going in there to buy ice cream or or a shirt or pant you know some type of clothing or Sury items um or is in the case of the surface parking lots uh to pay for parking um to enjoy everything around there um I have not total the entire square area we do have a survey of the city-owned area um and I believe the private I know that Looper has surveys of their Parcels um I will add the Looper and 130001 Gulf Boulevard their ownership I've had several meetings conversations they are very supportive and would like for this to continue they would for this to begin excuse me uh so much so that that they have expressed interest in wanting to partner with the city up to an including even serving as a project manager over the entire um should we proceed over the entire development I'm going to call it which would be a a public private um partnership you'd have agreement to go over term sheets um I haven't discussed with any of you the you know the financing of it we've discussed briefly in some of our budget work sessions of estimates as to what a structure May cost but an whether we would borrow money or um issue bonds that all would need to be determined as well as who would be responsible for everything from the design to bidding to who would oversee construction and who all of those details would need to be worked out the purpose of this is really to deter to get some feedback from all of you as to is this something we we would like to proceed with um if so um we would then need to begin the process of obtaining of determining um a fin you know how to proceed what type of agreement and who would en work all of those details and terms out um we I believe it would be very prudent as well to have at least one public meeting probably two to obtain more public input uh on this proposed project because this does it would likely change the character of The Village in terms of there would be a sizable structure um the height obviously there would be limits on the height the number of Stories the number of of size of parcels inside for retail whether there would be any any cafes or I mean other than what the VFW has uh and all of those details to be worked out the number of parking spaces would determine likely the height of the structure among other details who would be responsible for for the parking um I I choose that the city be responsible for that but um just my suggestion um of course we have some Revenue set aside to build a parking garage and a and a couple of years ago the parking hourly fee increase the justification for it was to utilize that additional Revenue to in the future fund a parking garage which is what this is purporting to be um so those are kind of a in a to try to summarize how and what this would do again we don't nothing has been done to this point um except having myself having one-on ones with you to explain that hey this is a possibility in lie of 100 the lot across the street on the west side of Gulf Boulevard um and I have met it with representatives of Looper and 130001 GF Boulevard um to discuss their thoughts of it I've had brief discussions with the current VFW I think if he's still the current VFW commander of David um to which uh and so I have not gone into great detail with any of them U whe either Loper or VFW but the VFW David mentioned that they would want to keep their they would like to stay open um they want to keep their as he referred to it their Cantina so they're um food bar area open for their members which during construction obviously we would need it would appear that we would need to find some sort of temporary location if we were to include them um in this project um I think they would be don't know if they'd be 100% amenable that remains to be seen however that's been his comment he he real you know realizing something's going to change into the future so they might as well you know be a part of it however again no details have been worked out so before we go to any any next steps this is really back to all of you to how how we should proceed do we have any public comment Commissioners um Mr Gomez you answered I think you answered all my questions uh one of them the the revenue from parking in this parking garage can I mean is that for sure that we would the city would still get that Revenue well that that would be I mean I think that's one the terms to negotiate to work out but from my perspective I it would be prudent that we we do at least keep the majority or if not all of the revenue um again and also to retain ownership so there are um four separate owners but three entities that own property and structures in this entire footprint print so that would need to be negotiated and all worked out with lots of lawyers and sure in the room to just but as a just with my familiarity of that of that uh spot it seems like there's going to there's there are lots of areas where there's nothing you know there's a lot of kind of some open space So if we do a partnership commercial prop partnership we might have actually more uh opportunities for businesses right they could I think that would depend yes and based on the number of parking spaces that would the optimal number and we would get the revenue from that rental space Also I mean that's possible yes that's a possibility uh and just I know we've all talked about this in our meetings but just the idea of having that parking on that side of Gul Boulevard is is appealing to me uh and and the public you know the nice public restrooms maybe and uh the the not I know know we want to keep our our Vibe our style but an updated version of that I think would look really would be appropriate for that area so uh I on the surface I like the idea if I might um I think it all starts with a concept drawing um yes I'd agree that having parking actually in the village versus across the street is ideal that said if it can't be if the concept ruins the atmosphere of the of the village well then then it's not so easy it's not it's not it's it's not something we want to consider so what I'd like to propose and maybe we can bring it up at a future meeting to get it voted on is actually putting in the budget to have a concept drawing nothing too doesn't have to be totally detailed but something that an architect can put together that what what would this look like um we would have much better concept you know it's such a what's it 200 to 500 spaces well that's a big big difference um how tall could it be that it's not going to that you know we're going to be talking about zoning in the area uh later in the meeting so you know how does that look to our thoughts about Heights in the village um but it all starts with that concept draing and getting that done and I think that's a first step and I'd be excited to at least get to that step that we can talk about it and approach this almost as a as a PD and and you definitely have to have uh Community input on it um with at least two meetings I would think once we get to that point oh definitely I agree with that we'd have to have some Community input um also future discussions we're just now proposing This And discussing about it it looks like um having that parking garage in the village would be a lot better and beneficial for everyone than on the beach uh the parking garage I would imagine to be four probably four stories right three stories I think the probably the max of the structure would be four four so my main concern is the businesses on the east side of the proposed triangle looks to me like all of those stores would be um shut out of the picture as far as right now that what I'm looking at if I had a store on the east side as a business owner of the proposed building garage I would I wouldn't like it but I mean we're now just talking about how we can overcome that but um you know for now it's a discussion but I'm just saying that those stores looked like they would kind of get uh the bad end of the apple as far as I'm concerned and and currently I think an ideas to or part of the discussion is Village Boulevard would you know the question would it remain open to vehicular traffic um I think the I don't know 100% but I'm I'm kind of leaning toward it would um but I'm not an architect or an engineer to be able to determine in your point about the views the view is going to be substantially different you're going to be looking at I mean a minimum of a three but no probably no more than a four level in terms of feet how tall probably about I'm guessing no probably no taller than 40 to or 44 feet and I forget the exact feet that we can go up in now that we're doing the activity center resoning components but all of those to take into account how that would be and the reason to have have public meetings and likely a meeting just probably business owners in the village to and you know physically out there and have some sort of concept design or a couple of them as to what it what it might look like but would have to be something you know both within the character of the actual Village and Boardwalk obviously but something that's very very appealing I think visually so that you're in you're kind of I mean I don't know if we go to the Super super wild concept because those can be you know very very expensive but we want to obviously be realistic and something that would be functional that would work and that really would transform this part of of such a popular and and busy attraction not just for our residents but the couple million people that visit every year um and and of course it comes with with some pains and some heartache for a while um but we'll try to make it as a as as less painful but that you know obviously construct nobody likes construction but we'll have to deal with that so there's you know greate you know comments and that's what we're looking to obtain I know from time to time maybe parking would be short for for the patrons but are we hurting for parking or are we trying to bring Revenue to the city um I I think the character as you had alluded to it Robin I think the the character would will tremendously change and um you know I why fix it if ain't broken I mean I I I see the village right now John's Pass being extremely popular with tourism I I don't see why we should make changes to it so I'm not in favor of it so I have a question when the parking fund was first established and we did the increase uh the conversation was to build a parking garage on the opposite side of the road beach side on the lot that we own if we built a building on this would be my question if we built a building a parking building there on that lot and built it to the maximum height that we are permitted how many parking spots would we get because those would be 100% Revenue to madir beach would be 100% dedicated to tourists whether they were going to John's Pass or going to the beach um I can see a value in doing 500 spaces and maybe help oping to clean up some of the parking that's on Pelican from the businesses where they get all jumbled back there and triple quadruple parked and it's sometimes a mess to look at but I've also had conversations where residents are interested in getting parking down here closer to us could we get a parking garage down here by City Hall um I would be much more interested before we do any drawings or anything to have Community involvement to have a workshop before we spend any money and let the residents come in and voice their opinion it seems to me that in the past where we often fall short is not getting Community input in the beginning of a project and waiting until we've already made some decisions and spent money so I would be in favor of having a community Workshop getting the feel for the community invite the business owner owners um see how everyone as a whole the that would come and be involved where they would have thoughts and processes and then do something based off of that information Mary if I could interject one more thing I I love that idea more the more residential resident input the better but I still think that if we're going to go to them even if we don't get an elaborate draw drawing I think well for myself it'll help me to see it but I'm sure your average person isn't an architect or a designer it'll help them to just get a a broad idea and I wonder if we couldn't put a limit on it and just get a an a drawing that's not I guess what for better lack of a better word not so expensive uh just to have something to take to the residential meetings I I I would agree only because everyone's concept when in the public meeting is going to be different of what we're considering you know in my mind's eye we have um it would be very similar looking to some of the buildings we already have um with the railings and the porches so you're you are disguising that it's even a garage and then I don't know that I would care for it but at least it would give me I don't know which way my vote would go versus building the garage across the street problem with the garage across the street is if it's utilized you're going to be it's going to constantly be a traffic problem with Crossing across the street or an overpass which I'm not in favor of um again that take that makes it a more commercial feel but we definitely there is definitely a need for more parking and we already know that um it's one of it's the second most Revenue generating um item in our in our budget so um I'm all for more parking it's just how what's the best way to do it and without some sort of concept drawing I'm not sure that I can be in favor or not in favor it's hard to it's hard to understand well currently right now I would think I would not uh the residents actually uh number one should be here um to communicate what they want you know what the residents would like to see and mayor you were right about having a um Community here to talk about it um but just like I was saying like oh I can Envision is as a 4-foot building even if we camouflage it if you had one of those stores on the east side of that location that wouldn't be fair to you would it that those stores wouldn't last a year no one would even know they're there so I'm not in favor of putting a 4 foot parking a garage right there thank you I understand your comment on having something to look at but I think before we have something to look at we should have an idea whether or not the residents are even interested in having a four-story building built on that I mean that's a large piece of property when you put it all together and if you have a meeting and however many people show up and there's the consensus is they're against wiping all that away and building one humongous parking garage with ground floor retail then there wouldn't be a need to even spend um and again I'd be interested to know if we built a parking garage where they originally had indicated putting it how many parking spots would you get I mean is it is it a hundred is it 150 is it 400 how one one concept that I found I think had 200 total spaces so I think that's a good that's a good understanding of what you're going to get to add parking if you do it there and then listen to the residents if they've got a appetite for building something there it's not an easy I mean there's multiple agreements that have to be made that takes a lot of what we're doing on that property out of us it seems I don't know that because we don't know what that would look like but I I definitely feel strongly that before we do anything we should have an understanding whether or not the residents are involved or interested in doing that and it is a lot of retail down there it'd be interesting to see how the retail um establishment feels also just just a last comment I mean down on um the main Boulevard there uh you do get some traffic on that second floor but it's not nearly what you get on the on the at grade so all the you know so it's my struggle is the the open space between the buildings add a value not having that open space between the buildings is that how does that impact the feel of the village and I'll take it one step further you know we talked about actually on the boardwalk itself where why do we need space between the buildings but I was thinking about it the other night sometimes that break gives it a different feel than the whole not necessarily from on the boardwalk but from looking up to the boardwalk because an old you know an old fishing Village might have indiv individual structures side by side with a pass through so it's it's not you know I'm not an architect either all I know is um it's a it's it's our main attraction and we don't want to we don't want to we want to supplement it we don't want to take away from it so um need more discussion well if I could add with the feedback I've been getting from from visitors and that's our majority priority I mean of course it's the residents but um visitors are thriving for structure and I think we uphold that as a city so a lot of the private Lots or the parking garage don't add that that value that we could add that we do add so I think um adding a better structure such as a parking garage would increase their their confidence coming to madira when it comes to parking in general so a lot of getting away from the unknown of either a private lot or the parking garage or the higher rates coming to something they they're familiar with such as a parking garage think that would be beneficial as well so I'm not saying I'm against it right all I'm saying is that I really think before we spend money we should have some sort of community involvement we've just gone through the activity center where there was a lot of misinformation that got put out into the community and I would not want to see something like that happen with this and if we start with Community involvement and then go from there we sit in a much better space than for us to sit here and make a decision on something that will tremendously affect our entire Community yeah back just a couple of the from your comment ments about is there a need first of all for a garage um speaking to a lot of the businesses yes they believe yes um it's not you do see cars circling looking for spaces typically from about second week of February all the way pretty much through Memorial Day even on rainy days people still like to go out there it is a gathering spot that you can walk without getting you know completely drenched I mean all things if it's just a light to moderate rain people will still walk you you can walk under the overhang particularly on the east side of Village Boulevard so it's not a doesn't keep people from attending um so is there need the other component um again recently some V well there's already a parking garage in there why would you need a second one and I think that's more of a I'm sure that will come from residents having public meetings why would you need a second one well a lot of it is about location location and how you advertise and how you're promoting and likely the owners of the garage they do advertise on on their website um you know is there an opportunity for more possibly um but we certainly would be encouraging and and really putting this out uh that hey you can come here and it's covered parking and you're not in the elements anymore the along the lines of what Jamal was saying so those are a couple of things the the biggest one would be it would it would add to the attraction that's already there and how do you do that with a structure well that's the creativity The Innovation the how it's designed what it can include in it can also be part of the attraction going back to whether it I mean it would have some sort of retail but whether it has even a restaurant or what whatever it can be in it serve as an attraction that would add to what is not there because the concept is to go vertical um it's tough to go horizontal without taking other thing I mean you can it could be a one or a twostory but then you're kind of you know if you can go up a few more you add more value to it the other part that I did not mentioned when I spoke initially is the top part if such a structure were to go here the top part would be open air that could have future uses one future use could be an alternative form of air transportation um to and from this area and that involves of the concepts of electronic vertical takeoff and Landing um technology so um the they're called vertep ports or having either individual or as many as four people a family of four for example to be transported um via air through kind of what looks like a modified helicopter I guess I'll leave it it's still under test phasing and all other um to see if it could work a Tamp International had a demo for one several months ago but it was a single person kind of Transport um modified helicopter I'll I'll call it so that's um a possib you know into the future and there could be grants and capital dollars available um with the companies that are currently producing that technology and that opportunity but um aside from that I think it's a great to have a couple of public meetings and just get some input as to yes or no or it's a terrible idea and I think it's an okay idea need a lot more information how could this work what would it look like what's the purpose who would retain ownership you know it's a lot a lot of details but it would go a long way to just get some input and we'll schedule to have a couple of those so um would it be reasonable to um schedule a couple of meetings and get some Community input and in the meantime um you could obtain what the cost would be for a just a rendering um based off of the feedback we get in the meetings and then we could we could vote for whatever that cost is and um have Community involvement so that the Community is a part of what's going on sure yep good thank you any more comments then our next item is the PC you can open up for public if you we can have public yes ma'am yeah come on up have it yeah you that's good what information do you need from me first of all I've never approached the uh your name and address I'm sorry your name and address if you don't mind my name is Pat Miller I'm a resident I live on 129th and I would be totally against a parking garage on John's path in that specific area the map that was up there because it would really take away and I think that a lot of the other residents are going to agree with me I think you're going to get a lot I'm surprised that there aren't more res residents here actually um I've been a realtor for getting close to 40 years so I'm real familiar with the area I love the area the way it is without a parking G I know that we do need parking because a lot of people come down 120 nights some people Park illegally on you know they've tried to get on my property because I've got a fairly large area uh Park parking surface but um I really think by putting in a a garage like that whether I mean even if it's just one story two story and I know it's going to be more than that because I mean why bother if it's not going to be more than that um as far as across the street goes I think it'd be beneficial for the city MoneyWise but I don't think that's a good place either um I'm suggesting the area and I don't know what's going on because I was kind of out of touch for a while you know and um the area where the wind dicks store is and Rock Park when that first started when that project first um was be being developed they had a lot of ideas and they were going to do a lot of things but the city's not really making a whole lot of revenue from Rock Park boat shows fishing tournaments um there's a couple concerts that I've even attended it's very nice they did a pretty job you know but it's really not doing what I think it should be doing for the city you know I love having the property I've love Madera Beach I've been coming here for years I don't think a parking garage in that area is going to do anything I mean I was hoping it would have maybe more restaurants or more you know things to do for residents and tourists because I know we get a lot of them uh and I thought well what's going on with wind Dixie in that huge parking lot there's a couple store you know few stores there that n a Dollar Tree and I don't know what the other one is on the other end now they've changed two or three times but um why not consider something like that I mean it's you just walk a block and you can catch the trolley and go straight down to John's Pass um so you know that's not uh an issue that I think would be so bad to you know I think the people would generally enjoy taking a ride and seeing the community especially if it's the first time time to the area and and um getting familiar with what's around and getting on the trolley and riding over there and then they come back and same thing it's very inexpensive and it won't affect anything with John's paths um a lot of people like going across the street just to watch the sunset or you know even that parking lot gets full just to watch the sunset so I think the resident input is really important for something like this a project like this I don't know if what I'm suggesting is something that could even happen um is anyone on the board familiar with what's going on there at wind Dixie and the project I know it's been going on for many many years I know also that there's a a hotel now that they've been in negotiation in John's Pass um closer to the boardwalk there in that parking lot that's there I don't know if they've signed on a dotted line yet or not but um know that's going to be a lot of traffic there from a hotel I think that's a wonderful idea to have a hotel but I believe their only choice is going to be to have parking underneath and that's probably going to be restricted to the people that are staying in the hotel of course um but I really think that's going to add you know on top of everything else that we're discussing so um I'm just wanted to put my two cents in as a resident I think it's really important that residents have a an opportunity they just need to know more about the meetings I don't think they're advertised enough I think you would have better attendance uh if they knew more about them and um I know about it because I'm a realtor I guess I'm always kind of looking out just well what's happening here what's going on here and know you know you stay away for a while and you're like wow when did that happen and then there's always different um all kinds of issues you know people love coming to this area it's like uh Paradise to them and um I think that by putting a parking lot that it it would really ruin everything that John's Pat Village has going for it you know thank you thank you for your comment all right thank you mayor if I may add just one um because she prompted me the concept of parking garages obviously revolve around um obviously people driving their car parking going to a destination um we have heard from residents and not to compare us to other nearby locations but over time there have been movements to try to reduce the number of cars visiting or driving out particularly to a Barrier Island um we have two types of visitors I mean for all things equal we have day visitors or day Trippers they come out here hence for the day whether to go to the sand whether to come to a park for an event or to go to the John's Pass Village and Boardwalk but for the day U the data that visit St Pete Clearwater uh produces gives us an insight into the visitors that come here and last year they estimated about 3.5 million visitors came to madira beach more than two-thirds are day Trippers they came here for the day nearly 80% of those drove a personal vehicle out here so we know that and that's been the case for many many years there are the more from a few residents that I spoke with and visitors well maybe you want to look at having fewer vehicles and then you wouldn't have a need for a parking garage well that's quite the challenge how to how to tell somebody who lives in Tampa or even seal or Largo you know try a different form of transportation to get out here uh the the reality in that is that's likely not going to happen so we will always have but just wanted to add that because that has been part of the conversation as well well do you really need do you really want the same number or even more vehicles coming out here that's a that's a great question and can we control that what can we do for that well one thing that has happened in other cities um and not just here is when you do go through the normal Redevelopment of overnight accommodations you tend to have a different type of visitor overnight visitor so longer longer nights and days those that do not bring a vehicle with them but that's a very it's just part of the conversation but something that we're also taking into account we're not we're we may never get to that point um one because we don't have Resorts and we have had two new hotels in the last decade I think or well I guess we could if Madera Bay and the others are considered hotels but pretty much the Cambria and the courtyard um and and John's Pass Hotel Al though I think there are 20 or so rooms but some things that where people will no longer need a vehicle but again two different over you know visitors that we receive and yes we do get a lot of overnight but the majority of our overnight guest are staying in the condos or other properties they tend to be driving from the majority from the southeast followed by the Midwest um but they tend to bring their vehicle um so just to add because it it you start to get and look at as much data as out there it it can it kind of just takes you around in a loop as to can you know it's tough to determine who you want you know can you control who comes here and how they get here that's really my my long answer to that or long comment thank you thank you Robin yes Mark Callahan 513 129th Avenue we do live on the neighborhood behind John's PA so we're familiar with coming down that street and we just want the city to look and my wife might may not agree with me she probably doesn't but I'm for more parking I think parking is a big big issue on the beach especially in John's Pass it's I think the biggest tourist attraction in the county and we don't have the parking to even allow our own residents to come from down the street to come to John's Pass Village if you live in another neighborhood M Beach there's nowhere to park we have cars stopped on every street you can imagine around there on the way into my house and and the everybody realizes that you come back down this back road people are pulling out in front of you they're parking in the street I mean there's they're trying to find parking there's no parking so um I think the idea of the city providing the parking and not gouging everybody and providing um a way for residents think about thinking about the future what is this neighborhood neighborhood behind John's Pass going to look like what's John's Pass going to look like because people are going to keep coming I mean unless we just I mean progress is going to happen and if we don't have the parking for it it's just going to make more problems for the residents it's the businesses aren't going to survive so that's my two thank you very much yep um just one more comment uh I personally have had to park up at 134th when trying to visit John's Pass Village so not having enough parking it's that's that's a given so the city has three properties in the area they have the area that's highlighted they have the area across the street and they have South Beach um so there I there are three options way I look at it so may I also just give a quick input real quick uh the city of Treasure Island just to the south of the bridge just passed the parking they approved the parking lot on water side of the uh Golf Boulevard just south of the bridge so I think they may have about 150 parking spaces thank you okay moving on pcso law enforcement Services contract fiscal year 2025 Robin yes I provided to all of you we received our renewal for next year beginning October 1 of 2024 the next renewal of our law enforces law enforcement Services agreement with the penel County Sheriff's Office the penel County Sheriff's Office provides our they are our police force here in the city of madira beach so they provide all of the patrol Services all the including all the excuse me the supervision everything related to um just your basic Public Safety um that includes all equipment the deputies um as the memorandum and the agenda items lists so we received two deputies every minute of every day um throughout the year we also received two Community well one community policing and one code enforcement um Deputy those are assigned to us on in addition to the patrol um to do the code enforcement to do anything just community relations interacting with residents businesses visitors providing public safety education also just being the uh someone on the ground and having a a you know two deputies and their presence here essentially six days a week one is currently working Monday through Thursday the other one Wednesday to Saturday um and I'll get uh to a a proposed change in a moment um the the agreement also provides for school crossing guards while school is in session and then all the other and the crossing guards are primarily on the Tom Stewart Causeway and Dumay road for the madira beach pental um we do pay half of the the cost of the school crossing guards and then all other law enforcement that we may need um up to what is listed there but even more um services such as a k9 obviously detectives to investigate any crimes if we ever needed a had a SWAT call out certainly the the helicopter that's used for searches and other investigations the Marine unit there's also they also do have a mobile command um very large bus um they have a whole drone um and all the other specialized units that the Sheriff's Office provides that is included in this agreement um we do pay over 12 uh we make 12 equal monthly payments for the agreement um this agreement as in Prior years um really there's no significant change in no changes in the services that I mentioned the change comes in in the uh the costs to us and there have been annual increases the increase in this proposed contract is a little bit less than the increase from the prior year to the current year uh but still a little bit over 7% mainly related to labor and Equipment uh cost um mileage have increased as well um so as cost increased those are passed on to us um as I stated just a moment ago back to the our code enforcement and community policing deputies um we can request uh changes to those duties or where or specific trouble areas or specific needs that we may have and so one of the areas that that I suggest um and I did mention to our the sheriff's captain that oversees the agreement that we look to alter um and we haven't we need to work out specific details but one of the those two deputies that they be assigned primarily on the sand um and partially the village and the Boardwalk uh more so on the actual Beach or 2 miles or a little over 2 miles of sand to kind of a little bit more on the enforcement of a v of our variety of city codes but from not having GL you know glass the dogs on the sand electric usage of of mainly bicycles or other electric devices um no you know grills the smoking um so really to focus on that and really be almost like a patrol assigned to those two main well and the beach the sand and the parking lots and then supplement at John's Pass Village and Boardwalk probably more on the boardwalk so a little bit going back to the some of you may some of you may not of the be the old Beat cop of the prior I still hate that term but the walkable cop that was very visible in your high Urban are areas that's about the one thing that I have not seen in the time that I've been here is an a deputy well they do get out and they do walk um but in this case we would request one be assigned and of course it would vary throughout the year given the peak times and busier times the busiest times from February through fourth of July really the busiest time of the year or the End season so we would work out the details and the scheduling um but really to provide some more teeth into enforcing the codes um mainly on the sand and more visibility been able to help out with any other incident that may be in the sand and although we did not um have not discussed it during the budget workshops in great detail but we've had a few public meetings that role should we change it would be kind of a complimentary should we choose to add a lifeguard program um but again more a little bit down the road on that um but that's kind of what in looking over the last two years what could be an enhancement for our safety definitely hear from mainly residents and Property Owners about some of the issues on the sand between the dogs and the smoking and the again the ebikes and other usage so we would assign them not their entire 40 hours a week but certainly we would look at what that schedule would look like and and to cover weekends um throughout the year obviously weekends are busier than weekdays even in the summer so um I'm going to meet with the captain next week to kind of go over some of the what could be done and how that would work but uh this is a draft agreement I don't I think we would probably a little bit of the wording um would change when we bring it back to you for your approval um which would either be probably not at next the next regular meeting in August but the meeting in September um for approval because the new agreement does begin October 1 so be happy to answer any questions you may comments do we have any public comment Commissioners I think that's a great idea as far as the community police seeing in the code enforcement use them on the sand side the beach side also um I know you're getting with the captain next week the only question I would have is I would like to see more of a say 11 to7 type shift I don't know if we can do that or not with those two like the community policing 11:00 p.m. to 7: 11:00 a.m. to 7 pm. something like that when we get more of a higher volume of people heading to the beach but I think that's a great idea that will help uh educate the people as far as no glass no smoking no dogs and and as a community officer they're going to come off you know we want to be as nice and and uh as we can be you know so I think that's a great idea just to educate everyone especially around those hours thanks I'm certainly in favor of of the uh the cops on the sand um you said there's no increase and you're just talking about redefining their duties not not no it would not be an additional what we're pay them I the the dogs the ebikes the glass uh and I would suggest uh definitely weekends but every day an hour before sunset uh I'm uh very much in PR in favor of a stronger police presence on the sand I I hate to think that Mader Beach would be getting the rep reputation Of Anything Goes so this officer would be walking along the beach let's say from archall Park to John's Pass area well I they would Pro likely be using one of the the Polaris their allterrain type four-wheel vehicle but I mean I would encourage them to obviously get out and walk and chat with people and you can't sometimes the Polaris can't go everywhere particular leave it's super super busy and the water you know the moon has pushed the water up onto the onto the dunes almost um so during the tides but yeah that would be the idea is to have them be a lot more visible and a lot more walking and talking you know speaking and interacting um with with you know mainly visitors that are out on the sand but certainly some residents so you wouldn't have a station for this person right in other words just walk on the beach and yeah again they would likely either drive and they they could also use their vehicle I mean they're all assigned a vehicle but they that could be part of it but the idea is have them on the Polaris more than more than any any other but also periodically get out and walk so the their main station regardless of where they are in the city is here and this is kind of where they you know if they need to use any facility they come back here um we are going to have you know new bathrooms at at archal Park but so be able to use that but we are uh retrofitting downstairs that's going to be a you know a room little larger space for all of the deputies not just our community policing but that's the idea is just to be much more visible but specifically Mo most of the time on the sand and in the parking lot I know it gets very hot out there especially in uniform sure well get get them one that has the air condition like the mascot um just for clarity the patrol they're pretty much in their vehicles all the time yes well they they'll Patrol in the Polaris also that when whenever you typically see a deputy on the sand and they're not in a vehicle usually Before Sunset or after or when it gets very crowded those are some of the patrol deputies okay you're not looking to this agreement what you have outlined here is no different than what we had last year yes as far as Manpower it's just how we're using them correct now so as far as budgets are concern it's it's the same yeah it's the same and I um fully support what your you you use the your uh men the way you see fit I agree I think having a police officer on the beach more would be fantastic a lot of the complaints that we receive from residents um whether it's a dog or smoking or loud music or groups of kids or what have you by the time the police get there it's gone so I think having the presence would set a precedent and a tone for the beach and that might eliminate a lot of that which I would believe would make a lot of residents very happy so I think that's a fantastic idea now we will move on to Community Development proposed zoning change for 129th Avenue East all right the city was contacted by a property owner um along with some other supporting neighbors requesting to allow short-term rentals for properties along 129th Avenue East and I'll pull it up on the map so we're all talking about the same area all right let me zoom out it'll be this area right here um close to John's Pass Village um it's zoned R2 and has a residential medium future land use category So currently in our2 zoning District um it prohibits allowing short-term rentals um short-term rentals are prohibited um and a short-term rental is any rental less than 3mon period so to allow a short-term rental along this area a new zoning District would need to be created and then those areas would have to be rezoned to that new zoning District um and if you amended anything in the R2 zoning District that could jeopardize the whole um short-term rental or grandfathering in of that three-month period um so this is just something that was brought to our attention um to City staff and there were some supporting Neighbors in that area so this is just a discussion if the board would like to go forward um and we may see application from the property owners of that area to create a new zoning district and then rezone do we have any public comment Don Callahan 513 129th Avenue and I live on site and we have a um duplex and I do believe based on our street it's not a normal neighborhood most of the homes if not all of them have minimum of a mother-in-law Suite um also we are behind John's Pass in reference to where we are you can see where that proposed parking garage is being proposed earlier um I think that based on where we live as an owner I should have the right to determine whether I want to do a short-term rental or not whether I do or not I'm not really sure if it was to pass but I think I should have that right um and again we're not a normal neighborhood by no stretch of the imagination and based on where we live and also too having other two homeowners that already can do it that it just makes sense that we should have that right thank you mayor can I ask a question of this speaker I'm sorry you're so just to be clear you are in favor of shortterm rental yes but not the four story parking garage I'm against that but yes I'm for short-term rental on that street on 129th and an owner of the house so I and I live on site fulltime thank you thank you good evening Commissioners my name is Robert shalter I own a property located at 50029 AV East own the property for about three years as a general contractor I took the project on to redevelop the property and and try to increase the value obviously to potentially have the opportunity to increase the revenue that brought me to the discussion with the city several months ago over last last year and then a little more recently uh to be able to petition to have the city consider resoning the neighborhood given its unique uh features that we all access through the busiest tourist attraction in penel County we would like to consider the city changing the zoning to allow for short-term rental currently we have a 90-day minimum which really shuts out quite a few of the families including mine as a child to be able to have the opportunity to stay stay down at the beach I don't know very many families of my income as a child that would have the opportunity to experience staying down at the beach with a minimum of 90 days um over the last several months I petitioned some of our neighbors with a opportunity to sign a written pledge we were able to secure uh what I believe to be a super majority of the 42 property owners in the neighborhood given again the unique consideration of our access for Ingress egress which is different than any other their neighborhood in the city as well as the density for the community we have a lot of high density greater than six unit properties uh in in the city where it's not very common for that to be a higher density in other neighborhoods so if the question were arise what would stop other neighborhoods from making the same petition well Ingress egress with some language with whereas on the zoning May prohibit that from being something that will be widespread petitions to mirror what we're doing here uh I spent a couple weekends with the Commissioners met several of the Commissioners discussing the John's Pass Village uh zoning and public feedback what I noticed was the overarching theme from either developers Property Owners Andor the city was that we wanted to do everything we could to protect and promote foot traffic and I feel very confident that this is in line with what the city's uh desire along with the developers and property owners to continue to protect the foot traffic uh for John's Pass it is a destination location that's known throughout this you know United States it's a very high uh trafficed tourist location and I think the short-term rental use would be in line with something that is similar to what the city is pursuing with the with the village we have a neighborhood that is joining us which is over on Pelican and they are currently short-term rental allowed it's a I think the R2 zoning and we're just trying to bring our neighborhood which has so Ingress egress through the John's Pass Activity Center in line with that adjoining neighborhood I thank you Pat Miller again I'm also on 129th I'm in favor of shortterm I understand that there's a lot of people that are against it because I've seen in the paper and uh several articles um some of the kids when they come you know the college kids come over they like to party they make a lot of noise you know I for as a resident as an owner I have a duplex there I stay in one and I rent the other side out a lot of times because I've owned the property for several years I lean towards the annual but I think people have the right to decide which way they want to go with this you know I think it's uh should be be open and allow people to do that there are occasions where you know if I had do happen to have a vacancy and um there's an event coming that you know people like to stay well they don't want to they can't stay for three months because maybe they can't afford it or what have you they like to stay for one month you know I don't really like the idea of anybody you know two or three day occupancy because I think that would be just way too much but because of where we're located because of the activ everything that's going on there I think it would be more beneficial like it on Pelican Lane they do allow the short term I don't understand why we're limited to the 90day minimum uh I think it should be changed and allow the residents and the owners to be able to rent to you know whichever way they want to go I happen to do a lot of background check I do a criminal background check I do credit check you I'm so I'm very careful with who I rent to and I'm just suggest you know for the people that don't like the idea of short-term run to that they should do background checks before they decide to take on a tenant um because I think that would really help matters in their situation you know if they're concerned about that that's probably why I've never had a problem with that so I'm all for the short-term rental do we have any additional public comment uh would like to talk in in support as well of um shortterm rentals on 129th behind John's Pass if you look at the way that particular neighborhood is positioned it is an extension of John's Pass in my opinion um and again we probably wouldn't do short-term rentals just because I don't want to deal with it we live there I think we should have the right to do short-term rentals because we are basically an apartment building that is we live on site okay we're monitoring the noise the crime whatever um I think most of the neighbors live on site um so um our neighbors are always changing we have we live in a apartment neighborhood it's apartments and um I have new neighbors every week so and a lot of the ones that are staying there not to the level of the ones that are coming in for two or three days and willing to pay for short-term rental so I I think for us in this neighborhood I think that the um the parties and stuff like that I think would be kept to a minimum I know that's a concern for some of the other neighborhoods and for a single family neighborhood I certainly understand not wanting to have short-term rentals but this neighborhood certainly is unique and I think that the city needs to look at what the future of John's Pass is going to be and um 129th and the homeowners there um should be a part of that thank you Robert Showalter 5129 da I have several property owners that were not able to be here today and I'd like to enter in some of the comments and support that they've provide to us as well as the petitions that we've had signed to date including Miss Millers would be 28 of the 42 property owners that are in support of short-term rentals mayor where do I present these please Commissioners can I ask that does this is this going to include that little loop on the other end like the snakes head on the other end of Pelican lane or is it just for this on the right hand side now they've just talked about this on the on the right hand side okay all right just 129th Avenue yes I think you said this uh we would be able to Define it so that it wouldn't include other what is this currently three R3 this is R2 oh R2 it's currently R2 it wouldn't you you do it wouldn't impact other r2s so what would have to happen is a creation of a new zoning district and then within that zoning District you could do short short-term rentals because if we change the R2 zoning District we just amend the text to allow short-term rentals just on 129th that could jeopardize all of our two uh grandfathered and uh rental period so have to be a new zoning District got it I just uh I just want to say in addition to the obviously 28 people uh plus one that Mr schalter uh provided I I have a couple of friends that at the gym with me and I've spoken to them they live there fulltime and they're in favor so I haven't heard anyone opposed to it so I'd be in favor of it do we know how many properties there are homestead I don't know but it looks like we might have somebody that knows that Robert shalter 500 129th I believe there was about 13 to 14 properties that were homesteaded however off the Record there may be a few that are homesteaded that aren't actually homesteaded so that number is actually 12 but that's a county issue not a city issue of the 12 properties that are homesteaded uh many if not the majority uh have voiced uh no opposition to this several um are owner occupied along with rental income um there are a few single family homes at the end of the CIS act that had voice that they do not want uh short-term rentals I made an effort to do do some um Grassroots door knocking just to introduce myself ask what the concerns were address in a respectful manner that I wanted to hear their voice and not do something to their neighborhood that they didn't want to do but wanted to give them the opportunity to discuss it and so there's a few at the end of the CAC that really don't like the traffic the culdesac is not the typical 140 foot diameter culdesac which allows for people to turn around and so people come down our road quite a bit and they were concerned about potential increased traffic uh off the Record there's a lot of people that short-term rent back there until there was a task force by a previous commissioner that um I think Miss Weissman had asked that they had stopped a lot of the short-term rentals while she lived back there she moved on and the short-term rentals began to peripher our neighborhood um but many of the property owners that I've spoken to back there don't oppose the traffic they like the short-term rentals uh because it's less um although it's transi by a week it's just not the lower income rentals that occupy some of those dwellings that haven't been renovated a lot over the years so there a little rund down here and there so it brings a lot more development and dollars into the neighborhood like myself has brought thank you um so public comment is closed this time is reserved for the commission to be able to have discussions U when we have a presentation the presentation is given by City staff and then we open for public comment the purpose of public comment at the beginning is so that the commission can discuss what has been brought to us not only by City staff but also by anyone that is in attendance that comes up and gives public comment and then we get to have the opportunity to Talk Amongst ourselves based off of all of the information we've received Commissioners do you have any additional comments thank thank you mayor if I might finish I'm I'm sorry it's still recognized I think um the reason I asked that is who's looking out for I know if I was Homestead I would have an issue I heard from a resident not on that street not in that area uh as early as today or as recent as today where a home is doing short-term rentals next to them and it is up it is made turned their world upside down um and uh are we do we want to be a residential community that has tourism or do we want to be a tourist community that has residents um when this was first introduced I heard about it months ago I asked around some some people that live close by not not 129 and they weren't they weren't too negative about it um so I was I was on the fence about it um but did you mention that this could jeopardize our our uh status with what the state um had done um it didn't pass this time but it was closed the governor rejected it it would be only if we ended the R2 zoning so we would have to create a new zoning District just for that area Okay so that okay so that would not impact any of that then now R2 would stay the same that area would just have to be rezoned something new okay thank you private lead effort or city or the resoning um or 129th in that area I wouldn't have a problem with it right now if this is just a discussion we're not going to vote on anything tonight um but for now I'd like to hear more of the community come out and and speak and let me hear what they have to say and then uh we can go from there but at the current time my stance is I don't have a problem with it thanks I don't think we should initiate zoning I think the residents should engage a consultant to bring this before this boort I don't think the city should initiate resoning this um a consultant would have to make sure that by changing the zoning we're not creating nonconformity there there there will be a lot of issues that uh I would want to make sure that we would not take on liability for so um and and as commissioner K stated also if some some of those folks want to have homesteaded and now they would have to I guess their taxes will be increased um so that that's going to be an issue and uh so I I I do see some concerns I mean I have some concerns in here and um I I don't think the city should initiate that resoning and there I just wanted to point out there is an Avenue for a resident or somebody else to put an application to amend the ldr so to create a new zoning district and then it would come from the applicant to rezone um a property as well so that's what staff would be recommending and that would go through the Planning Commission before it came to us yes well it would have to go through the Planning Commission regardless because it is a zoning or a proposed zoning change yes vice mayor do you have any I thought I I spoke already I'm I'm in favor um the my only concerns would be uh one that was brought up of all of the illegal short-term rentals um that's probably an area that we should focus some time and attention on in the municipality I have had um I actually had someone provide me with a map of the city that showed short-term rentals in the City that are illegal and they're advertised on websites to so that being brought up that's we should be having discussion about that for sure which is what our what we do in code enforce right so um if there are illegal short-term rentals going on on 129th that should not be happening corre um and I do I agree that if they want to get a new zoning it should just come through the normal channels to us my only thought would be that if I lived on that street and I lived in a homesteaded house I would not be happy so if I was one of the 12 people who didn't sign a petition I would not be happy for my entire Street to change um I bought it whenever I bought it I bought it as a house in an R2 District I can see where that would really upset 12 homeowners I think was the number so I would be of the opinion that to go along with staff's recommendation and let it just go through the channels we'd have our meetings [Music] and um and see how the community feels any more discussion just um just to add all those ownerships all those Property Owners would have to be a part of that resoning request and other words when it comes before the board so you would know who is actually wanting to reone and who wouldn't so somebody wouldn't they would not be signing the application isn't that what we received so we receive we receed that we receive there will be some that don't there will be some that are not going to sign the application to reson so okay right but we did receive those that are supporting and want this to go forward I don't think we're going to I mean in other words you're you're thinking we would get something from those opposed in writing there no there would be there would be a residents that would not support the resoning that currently live in that District well well we are aware that there are some that are not supportive of it they will not be either I mean you can't create spot zoning obviously so so we would have to kind of look at the whole picture well it's either all of it or none of it right right and so but we as was presented we've we have a multitude of property owners and residents that have made this request and we know that there are some that are not in favor of it that's what we have I don't know what if we're Mi I mean are you asking for something else well no I'm just saying the ones that are not in favor of it are not going to sign the application to move forward so so right right so each property owner would have to be party to that application they it wouldn't have to be so the process correct me if I'm wrong would be that the party here today would submit for a change in zoning to create a new zoning District it would come to Community Development Community Development would do all their whatevers then it would go to Planning and Zoning planning and planning and zoning would either vote to move it on or vote it down if they voted to move it on and did whatever there is it would come to us and then we would get to vote on it and so it could potentially if there were 12 families there that didn't want it if they didn't come here and voice their opinion it could potentially pass and that whole street could get a new zoning that would allow short-term rentals that's what they're asking for correct so we could am I corre am I correct what I'm stating yes so we could pass a zoning without the yes some residents wanting to reone their properties we could I'm not saying we would but we could I don't know what everybody would do but that would I mean that would be I have had a conversation with several residents who know of this that live in different areas of the city that are in our2 zoning districts and of course they live in a residential area it's where they chose to move into a residential area um that doesn't have short-term rentals that hasn't had it they are a 100% against US changing any residential neighborhood to allow shortterm for the fear that if we did that their neighborhood could be next I understand the you know the argument here it's the one way in one way out Ingress egress and that makes it a unique um situation to change it and I don't I mean I don't know where I really stand on it than I think that again it's something that you need additional Community input you need to understand how the other 12 people who didn't sign on feel about it and how the Planning Commission feels about it how it would come through Community Development and be presented so the the rezoning whatever that zoning is should also then allow for residents to be homesteaded oh oh you could you it wouldn't change Homestead homestead's Homestead yeah that's that's won't change their Homestead just the ones that will be over short-term rentals their Homestead would will change correct I see yeah it wouldn't affect if the well unless you live on the property you can live in your property and rent out your property you still retain the homestead well you Homestead at a percentage or percentage You' home you could Homestead at 50% or 25% or 60 whatever the percentage is that the property Appraiser's office determines you're allowed okay thank you that was good thank you thank you with nothing else from the commission we will move on to flood plane amendments all right so we were approached uh recently um to update our flood plane sections in the code so this would be three different areas in the code of ordinances um it would be section 822 which is our definitions uh chapter 14 which is technical codes and standards and then chapter 94 flood plane managment so when we update anything flood plane related we have to check with the state um with fdm and they work with FEMA so that's actually who contacted us to update our standards U so section 822 the definition section which starts on page 66 of the packet uh you can see everything that would be changing um is highlighted in yellow basically it's bringing all of the definitions together in one section so there is a section in chapter 94 that has definitions we would be moving all of that into section 822 which is the definition section for the entire code of ordinances and then moving to chapter 14 and that starts on page 96 of your packet U this just re reiterates that the city follows the current Florida building code and then this chapter includes the areas where the city has higher standards than the Florida building code um and then there's another section in there it's on P starts on page 98 that City staff would be suggesting to put in the code would be the sediment fencing section uh that's on page 99 of of your packet and then um another change would be in section 1439 would be updated with a new format you can see that on page 108 I know this is a lot of changes this will definitely come back before you uh for a workshop this is just the initial draft so we'll still be working on this we'll also bring this to Planning Commission as well so it'll look a little different but these are the initial comments from FD M and FEMA to us to get us up to current standards um and then going to chapter 94 like I st before the biggest changes would be removing the definitions putting that in section 822 um and just to assure consistency throughout the code um another addition would be the limitations on fill so that there could not be more than 24 in of non-structural fill for drainage so those are the main changes you'll see this again I know it's a lot it's a lot of different sections in the code moving things around but I just we just wanted to put this um out in front of everybody just start looking at it start thinking about it this will come probably um August or September for another Workshop but this is just the initial draft and um just to um be clear the what initiates this is the uh release of the new Florida building code so once the new Florida building code comes out we have to incorporate the new release address any of the technical amendments this is also our opportunity to tackle some of the stuff in the flood plane that um ordinances that we've been wanting to address as well so that's kind of the what initiates it and then from there we're kind of trying to make some other changes and kind of clean it up a little bit do we have any public comment having no public comment commission Mary answered one of the questions I had that's good the second I don't if I assume that these ordinances will uh impact residents and Commercial properties the same yeah so it'll be just whatever um it'll it will be the same and there shouldn't be any large changes that are necessarily impactful it's more or less like reorganizing the definitions where stuff is located how it's worded adding a little more teeth like she said to silt fencing um clarifying our fill requirements and where fill can be utilized and that'll be in line with every other municipality or well I shouldn't say that it'll be in line with Florida building code and um right FEMA okay thank you uh other other than that uh continue to work with fdem on not fitting the city's floor plan in my opinion comments of course we have comments um I refer you to page 100 please section 14- 396 which you did not have changed but I have an issue with structural fills shall not be used to elevate buildings I think we spoke about this in a previous meeting um I'd like that to be a discussion point at minimum because if we don't Elevate our buildings we can't Elevate our roads we can't Elevate our roads we continue to have sunny sunny day flooding and it just Builds on itself so we need to be able to elevate our buildings and if that's in conflict with FEMA and I think we need to have more discussions with FEMA so there's um there's we we can definitely I'd like to put something um together that's a little more cohesive for the next kind of discussion coming up but there are rules around um The Fill as city of Treasure Island is discussing too like only there's no you can't add structural fill and velocity zones and stuff like that um and so it's more or less around the difference between structural fill and non-structural fill defining that and stating where it can be used um um but if it when it comes to the FEMA requirements we would be hard pressed to to deviate from that and that's kind of Falls in line with also what Treasure Island discussed as well is they have areas where you will not be getting more than two feet of fill to elevate your property because it's in a velocity zone or Co a okay well here it says structural fill shall not be used Elevate buildings it doesn't say two foot a fill it says structural fill shall not be used and um we allow fill for for drainage reasons so um I'm trying to find where in the [Music] code right now but also buildings elevated buildings have to be on pilings um that's that's in here I don't have it um tabbed but that's in um I believe it's section it's either 14 or 94 right but again with the Treasure Island they they have a goal of no more than two foot of what is it is existing I think their goal was 7.2 feet or 7.6 feet or right they've they've set those the 5 foot seaw wall and like s foot finish floor if I remember correctly um it again it comes down to structural fill versus non-st structural fill because we require pilings all of our buildings are supported on deep foundations so typically they're not depending on fill to be supported so you're not the definition then I I'm having an issue with the definition structural fill is Not underneath a slab so as long as you're connected to the pilings and the pilings are driven whatever they need to be driven your what do they call it the the the the base floor elevation you can use fill to increase your base flood elevation to whatever is approvable and the idea would be like um during a flood event you can have fill that's designed to stay in place during a flood event or to go away during a flood event if the fill goes away during the flood event the structure is not impacted because it's not structurally supporting the building because the pilings are so that bill can technically be lost and not lose any structural Integrity to the building and since we require deep foundations that is what the situation we are in as a municipality so like I said I would like to prepare something better that's a little more clear for everybody um this is just kind of like a first blush to get everything out there okay so you're not you're not you are concerned about the fill underneath the slab washing away because the slab's not structural correct the slab well so slabs can be frangible in coastal a and velocity zones so they can be designed to break away during a flood event as would the fill wash away it gets a little more tricky historically we do not allow structural fill so if we wanted to start doing that with that's something we have to discuss because I like I said it in the coastal a zones and V zones it's it won't be allowed but we do have other areas in the city where we can and discuss it but it's still it's still not supporting the building and I think that's what I just want to be clear about it's not providing support for the building so it's it's it's FEMA's definition structural fill versus an engineer using structural fill to achieve structural support sense okay it's not I know what I know what you're we're going round and round I don't want to know yeah that's why I I want get too far down the rabbit hole all right um I I will I intend to provide better Clarity though was couple other things bear with me and highlighted on another following page but same same thing what is um non-conversion uh the non-con conversion agreement um that is something that new homeowners um with elevated buildings are required to sign just so they won't convert their ground floor into livable space and does that are you requesting that you have in inspection rights to their home because I think that's been litigated is it um it includes that um there are higher standards that we could get extra points with the community rating system the CRS program um but we're not proposing changes on that so currently we have that non-conversion agreement so if someone builds a new home they pretty much have to give you access to inspect it at any time yes um I can't remember exactly how the non-conversion agreement is written but um it is one of the required documents I just I recall convers ation years ago with someone building a new home and they said that they had they had um the resources to litigate that and they were going to do it for everyone else I don't know if it ever was litigated and came back to the city i' I've asked um Robin about it he wasn't aware of anything but I didn't know so I guess that was never litigated um Tom can you speak to that CA I know we had one particular case where it was challenged so I don't know the answer to that question but I'll I'll definitely ask the litigating partners in The Firm if they handled something like that yeah um thank you Tom you're welcome I think they were my big takeaways any further comments just real quick um first of all any questions I have I'll be sending them them to you guys you know if I don't know the answer um the construction fencing now it says that Construction Construction without fencing is pro prohibited so is that on the west side of Golf Boulevard and the east side of Golf Boulevard and then it says the temporary fencing shall be required during All Phases of construction until the city manager or the representative permits removal of the temporary fence just my question is all of the uh I'm talking about residential uh construction as far as people moving their elevating their house say um or tearing down their house and then rebuilding is a temporary fence mandatory for residents that are are elevating their house or tearing down their house is it or is it that just for commercial companies typically that type of fencing would only be associated with commercial properties so we can work to better Define Define that in here so like if a resident is adding on a bathroom or something like that any type because it says any type of construction I'm I'm just you know they do they have to have fencing around their property to do that construction just the sil fencing if they're making like land alterations but the full-size construction fencing would not be a requirement for that type of construction oh okay that's what I'm checking and those are things we can obviously clarify better thank you have any comments well this FEMA requirements is can be somewhat complicated I think the city of Treasure Island may be removing Mary would you check with the c Treasure Island I think they're removing their requirements for the structural fill I've heard that uh basically they did not want to have any net gain of fill or dir when you develop a property but uh to commissioner Kerr's concern you know we're trying to keep the floor elevations above blood you know if you get a pretty bad rain and uh you have a foot of water standing in the street you don't want to have the elevation the floor to be low because you'd be flooding them and you can't flood proof residential and they just it just doesn't work so I am definitely in favor of not having that structureal fill requirements as a part of this this uh and I don't think it's a FEMA requirement FEMA would not require that you know so um I I think as also Marcy stated this is probably just a very first blush and uh we need to take a better look at this yeah so you know we can better Define that but velocity zones and Coastal a zones are very clear about structural fill and the use of it um and the Florida building code also uh references it as well so however we pick to go for it I mean we can definitely start you know allowing more than 24 inches of fill if that's the direction we want to take and we can discuss those and kind of go through that iteration where's velocity Zone in Mad Dura Beach isn't it I don't think we co a we have more Co Coastal a locations like all of bay points Coastal a so that's where it starts to get a little tricky yeah some of the finger Islands have that Coastal a um along 150th you also have some Coastal a but they're not velocity I mean we're talking about velocity Zone A lot of them are built have to be built the same same way as a vzone okay any additional comments with no additional comments we will move on to the John's Pass Village Activity Center zoning all right we wanted to provide you an update and then also an opportunity for any comments um or concerns on the John's Pass Village zoning so we are planning to bring this to the next Planning Commission meeting all these ordinances for recommendation along with the rezoning and then you will see it as well next month um so what we have near packets we have all the ordinances to rezone um the John's Pass Village Activity Center area so it encompasses ordinance 20 24-9 which is creating this new appendix that has all of the the design standards um and criteria for that area it talks about all the character districts basically this is the document that you've seen multiple times at workshops um that the Planning Commission has also seen uh for discussion item and then next we have that was just created and then the next ordinance which is 20 24-11 is actually rezoning that whole area to C1 and then lastly the 20 24-12 is amending C2 which is a boardwalk uh which won't be used anymore so that would be to reserved do we have any public comment P Miller do I need to introduce myself again Pat Miller on the 129th I had a question and I don't really understand if you could clarify that for me as far as the changes that are happening to John's Pass Village how are they changing opposed to how they are now what can and can they not do is that can you kind of summarize that I don't know yeah it's not a sorry but it's not a question and answer it's just your opportunity to comment if you have a I mean you can we'll we can take your information and then get back with you on your questions fine but does it change any of the values as far as uh what it has to do with the residents that are on on 129th I don't know if it does or not but I'd like to know more about that who would I submit my name and number if you fill out a comment card at the back and leave it with the city clerk okay okay sounds good thank you thank you Commissioners I'll start um I guess it's 20249 is that where they speak about height anyway um I had I had requested to actually have a drawing put in that I submitted and Marcy did such a great job expanding on that I just want everyone to understand when we get to the height portion of this what we're talking about and hopefully this diagram will be Prov provide it to the Planning Commission as well so with this drawing here we have a three-story structure uh with a basically a 14ot first level two foot between each levels and and 10 foot um for the second and third stories um since we're measuring to the Eve we're looking at in this example a 27 and 1/2t height to be able to get that elevation I think in the documents here we're looking at height based on footprint which I don't remember discussing that or where that came from if you're in a larger lot you're one acre lot you you can build something higher than you are if you're on a Halfacre lot we discussed Ted at the zoning workshops uh earlier in the year where what we did to um avoid having bulky buildings is we required larger lot sizes to allow for more height but then the upper floors have to be stepped back um The Heights we looked at were um similar to what was in the zoning code pre-1983 and also similar to what was proposed in the master plan uh the ldr section that was proposed but not adopted so and and we also looked at what was existing on the ground as um so right so here on um page 151 commercial core Lots equal to or less than a quarter acre are 34 feet so that's that's higher than what's shown in this diagram to a half acre it's 44 feet Lots larger than a half acre we're talking of 55 fet which is what the parking structure currently is down there that's the mix juice parking structure is is that about that I think Marcy you took some some measurements of some some of the eaves when we were down there was that was that documented I'm sure did you have do you have that on some of the eaves you had um a tool I think that you had borrowed from yes I have notes but I don't have them with me but I do have notes when when I do have the notes from all of our walking tours one thing we'll be bringing when when this comes goes to the Planning Commission for public hearing is we've been uh working with Tampa Bay Regional planning Council um who H has uh made a support document that visualizes what the proposed Land Development regulations would look like down there in each character District um and we hope hope to have that document final version uh soon but we've been because it's important to show what things could look like but but U um as we we did look at what was previously built down there so a lot of the heights are Sim are similar to that and and we looked at other activity senters in similar highs in scale like the downtown Den needed and the P of Grill area has like the I think we need to be very careful on this zoning you know just like our earlier conversation about the parking garage if we lose the look and feel of the village we've lost it all we're going to have all these new buildings and it's just going to be it's not going to be an attraction anymore it's supposed to be an attraction to to bring bring visitors um to benefit our community so so um one thing we do have in the zone is under um section D 113 we have design standards and guidelines and it explains um kind of what needs needs to be done to make sure new buildings look look similar to what's currently there I know but that's abstract if you have a 55 foot building at the Eve that means you have a a maybe a 60 foot building to the peak I don't know that that's what we I don't know that that's what the community wants to see personally I mean there's already buildings down there that are that height um but that's that's the parking garage which is which is over in the corner that you don't even can't really Embrace as part of the village that's if you put that parking garage in the middle of the village it would stick out like a sore sore thumb we don't we're not allowing that height in that part the the traditional Village part doesn't allow for that height basically the only districts that allow for that height or you have buildings of that height so it's the commercial core but that's not true commercial core goes all the way down to Walts okay I actually did a map of the height limits let me go back to that um so we can discuss it so the village this is 34 to 44 feet which is the current Max height limit in commercial District other zoning districts in madir Beach um and then the only placees allow up to 55 ft are the commercial core and the John's pest Resort which both have structures that are around that height currently yeah but again commercial core goes all the way up to the R2 District um I mean any like any building along the like public right like they have to step back the Upper Floor so I mean from the street level you wouldn't see the top of the building I could just I can show it down so for example with this building you so this is a six-story parking garage but from the street you see the twostory uh well commercial on the ground and then um temporary lodging units above it so at street level you see the twostory part of it but behind it is a sixf floor parking garage but it the the garage part is hidden the goal is to kind of hide the height to make sure that you don't get bulky buildings and that's what we've written in the code so when it if someone comes in they can't get around that that's what they have to work within those limitations the plan this is going to the Planning Commission before we look at it yes this will go to Planning Commission so you can see the step backs uh what Andrew's talking about in the setback requirements um it's it's D um for all the sections I believe or it's the last um which page sub section on it that starts uh 146 of the packet and like Andrew mentioned we're working with uh Tampa Bay Regional planning Council and they've given us a draft of visuals of all these all the districts uh with the heights with the step backs with the setbacks um so that will also be going before you at the next meeting so you get to see this I think that visual really helps um see what it could look like especially since there's so many different things like if you have a larger lot the set bags might be a little different the height might be a little different and then really visualizing that step back for those Upper Floor floors as shown here um for the um front yard for example for buildings of two or two or more stories uh 10- foot setback with either a structured arcade or a covered walkway allowing setback or awning over the 10 10 setback the second floor and above may have a structured porch within the setback so and then the sidey yard for Corner lots of a side yard along a street the side setback along the street all right 10et is isn't that a grade I mean am I misreading this or I don't see that it says that it steps back to further you go up I mean if you go back to your go back to your Google Map there for a second so for multiple story buildings a 10 foot minimum step back behind the primary facade of the building shall be required for stories above the second floor for portions of a building facing or bordering a public RightWay so it's it was it's D um I can go back to that and I can I'm GNA just back a little bit if you look look down boardwalk and see how much higher that looks back back in back there how would you do that anywhere else in the village I mean if you just took a few steps down that down Boardwalk you'd see I I think everyone Embraces what you see on the other Street what is that um I think this um this turquoise building is a good example of kind of like what the step back would look like you see like the second floor um doesn't protrude out as far as the first floor so that's that's what the step back would would be like right but that Eve I would I'm would assume that Eve is similar to what the drawing is here it's a probably a little bit taller than than and we're talking double this because this that this drawing is a 27 and A2 foot Eve we're talking double that you don't you don't see that parking garage from anywhere in the village unless you're right up on it and because because the upper floors are steep back like what we're proposing in the zoning okay I I'm done any comments yes uh I thought I think we had a we just touched on this uh conversationally earlier with regard specifically to the transitional uh zone right h i I would love to see uh some wording and and if it's here forgive me i' I've scrolled through I don't I don't see it uh regarding uh no rooftop bars no Amplified music and a new one that I'd like to add is no uh beach party per permits so just to be clear a lot of people actually do live on the west side on the beach there are homes there there's only one business I think it's TRS realy other than that it's all residential so uh we've had some issues with uh Amplified sound for special events we've had a couple of parties that got permits but it was pretty disruptive to the neighbors that live right behind so just for the transitional uh so and Shan I'd like to see no rooftop bars no Amplified music and no party permits on the sand one just enter that into discussion unless it's already there and I just don't see it um right now it's written in as a special exception use um so special exceptions would have to go to the special magistrate for the transitional for all of the districts um for an open open rooftop or Terrace uses um but that is something that we could remove as not an allowed use yeah the only question I would probably have for Tom um is I know that we do have at least one building that already has um that use there and how that would how would that work well they would be legal non-conforming use when the when the zoning changed so long as they continued on with that that use they can continue and not expand it is that is that Barefoot Beach yes they have that's the only one that they have a a liquor license not a liquor license but I knew I know that they have an open open Terrace are rooftop rooftop area but when I say bar I mean a liquor license beer wine whatever they don't currently have they wouldn't be able to get one good okay all right so yeah that's that's what I'm talking about and that is the only example of an open uh area that's that exists there already I think do you get a lot of complaints from the the residents I have we had someone here talking about that at one point yeah but you still get I do yeah yeah they're just not the people that live there and the people that go to the beach there that's usually not where we have uh the big events right now as we go north now uh yes but right there between I think it's 131st and 133rd isn't that where transitional is to yes or 13 yeah 133rd or 131st I think it's very residential right yeah okay check y 130 any further comments I'm still trying to figure out your What is your definition of height I know it starts from DFE but where does it end where you say you know maximum height let's say 44 feet would it be to the top of the roof I mean if it's not a pitch roof how do you measure height so we have it in there now um as the Eve so if it was a flat roof it would be at the flat flat portion of the roof um but that that's how it's written right now now in other zoning districts currently it's to the highest point so when you say Eve let's say is let's say if we have flat roof if there's a building that's got flat roof right typically is to the top of the roof where would the eve be in that case maybe to the top of the roof top of the roof call it's to encourage more of like the gabled roofs um that are typical of what you think of like old flan fishing Village I think it can be simplified if you say for instance height and then you can use that definition to establish your step acts you know at what elevation would you require the step backs to occur um you know if you say all right the height is measured from design high in this particular case I think we have a four four feet of freeboard right do we have yeah so so yes base flood elevation whatever femo says that is go above that four feet that becomes your DFE design flood elevation basically and that's where the height is measured from and then typically if it's a flat roof you go to the top of the roof it's the pitch roof you go to the center of the pitch and then of course you have um you have ability to do a parid wall and even if you have an elevated shaft you know those are kind of given over and above the the elevation the the height requirements but uh it it this really it just creates a lot of questions a lot of amb ambiguity the way we're describing height I think it needs to be simplified can may I comment on that um yeah we had talked about that during our walk down there and the idea of down at the John's Pass village is all these nice pitched roofs and there different variance is what the height is um and my concern is if you continue with a definition at the top of the top of that roof to try to squeeze in another story is my issue we talked about using the the term Eve which you know in in the case of a flat roof in my opinion shouldn't be the top of the roof it should be at the the ceiling height of the highest air conditioned space the you know if you had storage up in the attic that wouldn't be that wouldn't be counted but the highest occupied space the ceiling height there that's what we're talking about um we want to encourage uh these these pitched roofs and and and uh I don't know the right terms but the you know the structures that um what do you what do you you know like the bell tower kind of thing um we want encourage that because that's that's what brings the character to the Village um that would be part of the architecture um guidelines well well yeah but you know if we um my my concern if you if you use that definition of height at the top of the Eve or or the top of the roof or the middle it that's where it starts to you know you start to play games with your design your architecture to be able to maybe gain an extra foot or two or an extra level um and that's what inspired me to kind of draw something up rudimentary that Marcy made this you know this great drawing because it shows design flood elevation so that's your that's your base Point that's where we're talking about our that's that's a ground zero even though it's 14 feet above uh you know base C Level I guess it is um see if that's if that's Ground Zero and that's what you I wanted to kind of make sure everyone was aware okay 30 feet is a is a three-story building 20 28 feet is a three-story building right now I think in the code before if it's changed we're not taking away anything from uh Property Owners because right now I think throughout the village and correct me if I'm wrong is 34 feet at the top of the top of the roof um in C1 zoning District C1 yeah so we're whatever we do we're we're going to add height so we're adding we're we're giving that more value to the property owners we're not taking away property rights now to what extent is what the conversation is about and I just thought a drawing like this kind of really helps with that conversation yeah no I appreciate that I I understand where you're going with that commissioner it's just that most zoning codes you know describe it a little bit differently but I understand your concern okay we will move on now to plan development amendments okay so in your packet uh we have the PD plan development section in our code um we have become aware of some inconsistencies throughout our PD zoning District um that really needs need to be resolved uh so Community Development staff has gone through this and made this is our very rough draft but we wanted to get it to to everyone here um just to start looking at start thinking about um I know that there's it looks like there's a lot of underline and strike through um we still haven't gone through with other departments on this but this is just kind of the starting point of what the Community Development staff has gone through and getting rid of those inconsistencies and issues that we have in this section um and then really updating it to to current standards as well and we also wanted to um get a little M um recommendation from from the board to see if You' like to go forward with making the changes that we've recommended obviously we'll Workshop this more um or completely doing complete revamp of the PD section if we go that route I would say we would need a consultant and outside consultant so just kind of getting your feedback on that as well do we have any public comment with no public comment commission uh if if the staff doesn't recommend necessarily getting an outside consultant I I mean I'm I'm fine with you continuing to hack through it and uh bring us some bring us something with uh that you feel uh will work in this situation so that's the only thoughts I have on thoughts I have on this subject the only thing I have is um really on the on the quantity and type of parking spaces and parking requirements back to the elevations here and you know proposals down at John's Pass Village and our earlier discussion of the of the park garage [Music] um I think that uh you know a lot of residents would push back and say we don't need any more shortterm uh we don't need any uh hotels or uh that that type of U temporary lodging down in the space but it is it is you can you can do it it's in the zoning um but by the time you put uh parking space on the second story because you're mandated to have commercial on the first story I believe then that's not going to be done um so if um I would open that up that if the city were to provide that parking at at their fee and it may be you know if it cost um typically 25 what what was the estimate on the parking garage 2500 per space you whatever it would 25,000 25,000 per space yeah probably 30,000 now so that that fee were to go to the city to to build out some spaces um I would not be opposed of actually being able to uh have the have the city have that resource for the that income that that bed tax um if it could be an agreement could be worked out with the city on on that so I just put that out as a discussion item um let's say a hotel word would be buil down there in that commercial Zone and it was a third it was a three-story building just like this drawing and they were able to hit their intensity and density levels that are mandated and the city were to be able to get uh pretty much a guaranteed income on from those parking spots it's at least worth discussing does it make any sense so I I don't know if it makes any change in what you're doing here um I think like so if there is a plan development um that would probably be something that could be written into the development agreement I would say not necessarily um in the section that you were talking about the section uh what is that page 185 is just saying in the site plan um site data table just showing how many parking spots you have um but that would be something more that would be discussed in a development agreement okay do we get from from the city it's pretty open it's a quantity and type of parking spaces and parking requirements is something that's a discussion item on on the PD it's not it's very open and and the Johns pest Village activity center it's kind of you're you're technically allowed to rezone to a PD but we've kind of De incentivized it because we don't want taller building than buildings than what's been built currently so it at then we've really kind of De incentivized doing a PD there and because we want people to use the zoning we're proposing but even a PD if a PD was proposed down there it would still have to meet what's in our special area plan which is pretty strict also well in that in that example would that be something that could be discussed without a PD let's say that they wanted to do temporary lodging and structure similar to what you have drawn here um possibly if they wanted to do the alternative temporary lodging use standards uh which you can get a higher um density and intensity you have to go through a development agreement process so very similar it's like a contract between the city and the developer okay thank you I'm good I think it looks I mean this is interesting to start so it'll be good to see what you have moving forward and this will come back before as a as a workshop so this isn't the last time that you'll see it this is just the first time the first draft so we'll Workshop this with Planning Commission um as well as internally with other City staff oh yeah great absolutely moving forward with the Amendments and working with the Planning Commission um I think that's great great thanks have anything um the only part I'd like to add to PDS would be incentives in other words if the city is willing to give in in some parts of the PD then what could we get in return as far as beautification sidewalks Landscaping you know the ulation and the step backs and all that yeah and right now it's uh it's quite open you can see in is it page 183 184 uh it talks about the flexibility in setbacks and um and I think it's yeah one 184 talks about and it's basically bringing the some of the language from um section 110 386 and moving it over um to allow that flexibility in setback um and in height for enhancements Civic enhancements uh we didn't want to make anything too specific um because it would be on a case-by casee basis and depending on where it is but if that's something that you want to enhance um or create another section about that or of those voluntary um incentives to create more flexibility that's something that we could definitely look into I would appreciate that thank you we will move on to business tax receipt fee update okay we wanted to just show you the draft of the updates for the btrs I know that you've briefly talked about this this would be an increase of 5% and this has not been updated since 2014 so this just shows you what the ordinance will look like with that 5% increase do we have any public comment no public comment commission I think we should move forward with increasing the BTR part pardon my ignorance is this something that's charged annually yes it is and this is just to be able to do business within the city limits yes it's the old occupational license a number of years ago they changed it to be labeled business tax receipt but it is an occupational license thank you do you have any questions I have a question how do we check on businesses as far as BTR probably more specifically um the overnight accommodations or places where you know if if we are creating areas where where uh we're encouraging overnight accommodation or you know are you asking how we track whether or not someone has purchased this yes correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that we have a computer software now that tracks and flags correct yes and then we'll be working with um a new software um soon the next coming months for btrs as well the same software that we use for our permitting system so let's say if there's a short-term rental they would need to have a BTR right yes if it's if it's legal right that's that's what I'm so we we check and we'll look at addresses pretty regularly now if it's if they're allowed if they're going to rent it there is a BTR there's also a rental registration and an inspection I think every other year um if I'm correct or but we I mean staff checks to make sure so when we get addresses we will see if they've obtained one if not they receive a letter stating that they must obtain their business tax Andor rental registration that goes for any business within the city obviously a brick and mortar or structure we can observe that but if a unit and a condo all of a sudden started renting and they're allowed to overnight rent how would we know that there's a variety of I mean you can and and we'll have to make sure determine if we're doing this but you can download reports for example from the state um sunbiz where you register your LLC or your corporations and typically close to 100% of businesses do register there so that's the first place that most people begin so they you can download a report and it'll give you the address and then you can match the address with our system to see if they've obtained one again we're fairly small so we could probably check every single address to determine that and we'll make sure that we're doing that thank you thank you than you very much Community Development thank you great job so we'll move on to finance ordinance 2024-25 thank you so just to give you some background typically annually uh Finance solicits from the other departments any updates additions deletions modifications that are requested to the uh the city's fees and collections manual typically we do this once a year around this time go through the workshop process as we're doing and then go through uh passage of the ordinance through two readings so that by be the beginning of the next fiscal year in October o by October 1st those new fees are are in place we did uh we did update this one earlier in May or in April um at the request of the uh Building Services Department to add a building safety Milestone report review fee of $250 so we've already gone through this process um but this one is kind of the the catchall capturing all departmental requests as you see here we have from development services uh finance department specifically parking fee increase from $3 to4 doar uh fire department rental inspection fee and then Municipal Marina trans trans wet slip dry storage rental fee updates uh so all those updates are um track and track changes within the exhibit a the feeding collection manual update uh and if this if you're comfortable with moving forward with this we'll put this on uh in the next meeting uh in the first reading and ordinance I'll take any questions if you have them do we have any public comment comment Commission I have no questions CH we move forward to approve the ordinance no we're not doing that yet we're just ask yeah um I do have a question and it's just based off of um some feedback that I have received from the community on some of our fees for the site plan and Redevelopment process I get my question would and I don't know that there's anyone here that can answer it um we had a 300 oh we're just never mind I do not other than on the first removal site plan submittal at the ,000 so we're going to not charge a preliminary and not charge an additional so if they have to come back in for an additional that's going to be at no charge correct just a flat one time $1,000 fee at then for the intermediate level yep that threshold and if it's a major it's just a one time $2,000 right so we will have to go back and try to track and so if they have issues and they have to resubmit we're not going to keep charging them I think that is fantastic a lot of work for our um team but and on the but I also would like to give a shout out that um Community Development has done a fantastic job of working with residents and businesses that come in for help with their plans I sat in on a um on a day where they had the open I've actually sat in twice when they had open hours where residents or or contractors could come in and the first time I sat in a contractor came in and they had issues um they worked through everything in that meeting and they complimented that madira Beach was the only city that offered that service that you could go in and sit down and I thought it was they were very very happy and I thought it was a great um a great compliment and it was nice to see how the team worked with them and then I sat in on another day where uh the resident came and they did nothing more but provide information to the resident on the resident's property and it was it was very nice to be be a part of that and to see firsthand how helpful they are to the residents and contractors that are working within the city and I know that anyone who is permitting right now is going to love that we remove these fees so I think this is fantastic that's all then we will move on to Enterprise Fleet Management vehicle purchases okay more background on this one as well uh the city entered into back in 2019 and this was orchestrated by my predecessor uh a arrangement with Enterprise Fleet Management to lease a number of vehicles and while this was well intended I don't think it had the desired effect that uh based on my feedback from various department heads on how to manage vehicle purchase replacement within the city the intention was about a 5-year lease and then turn the vehicles in and get a brand new vehicle and continue on a Perpetual basis but some challenges faced were one just the process to um to submit the vehicles for uh repair maintenance was a little clunky compared to our in-house mechanic that can do things like oil changes maybe a little more efficiently speedily compared to going through the process with Enterprise also the life on these vehicles are typically longer than 5 years we like to break them in and keep them as long as possible and so after that fiveyear period the sentiment generally is that the department heads that me have these vehicles would just like to keep them at least another few years thirdly and and a buy versus lease scenario I'm always a fan of buying instead of leasing to save on interest costs if one we've got sufficient cash to do so and uh two the cost the interest cost to lease out outweighs the interest income that we could otherwise receive on our investments and if that duration is longer like that seven eight nine even possibly 10 years to me it always makes more sense to to buy versus lease and that's a lot of the feedback that I've received from the Departments they'd rather instead of being on a fixed fiveyear cycle make those decisions to replace Vehicles as needed um and typically look to purchase but also I'll I'll run the numbers and say does it make sense in this case to finance given the rate that will be incur uh incurring the financing cost of this vehicle versus what we could earn on our investments and we we uh perform that analysis at each uh uh option to purchase with that said what we like to do since these vehicles are nearing around the end of their lease term I've laid out in the memo that uh the Departments would like to purchase based on the remaining residual Book value which is not high uh less than five or $6,000 per vehicle and just try to maintain these vehicles uh for a period of you know at least one two three four years longer until at that time we can sell scrap the vehicle and and purchase a new uh so nothing we just wanted to uh nothing that we need to approve formally through any kind of passage of a resolution or ordinance we just run run this plan by you all get your concurrence and then move forward with Enterprise on consummating that purchase transaction do we have any public comment with no public comment commission I recommend purchasing the uh remaining vehicles from uh Enterprise Fleet Management I second that I'm in favor of purchasing as well makes sense I agree and did I mention I didn't orchestrate this I just inherited this yes I remember when they did this and it didn't make sense to me at the time because leasing makes sense for some people but in our case I didn't understand why why it was wanted even even coming to the meetings and listening to it it didn't make sense not on the scale of how we use vehicles and it just so good job to move on I think scale that's a perfect point I think scale makes the big difference if you're a larger entity with a a more sizable Fleet you know have that and especially Public Safety Vehicles where that useful life might be a little less but you know I think we do a good job internally of taking care of our own vehicles and there's a lot lot of retrofittings different types of outfitting of those Vehicles so have to change that out every five years it just makes sense to Buy Buy and Hold and and maintain the best you can well we have a fantastic in-house mechanic that helps so thank you very much all right appreciate that we'll move on to approval of section 125 plan document okay so just to give you some uh background on this section 125 plan also as a cafeteria plan uh this is a a a formal document that we're putting a plan document that we're putting in front of you the intention here is just to codify that document and approve via resolution so that we have it clear and writing through commission approval and this just covers a variety of of aspects according to that meet the regulations of IRC section 125 cover things like uh eligibility participation in the plan and then the benefits themselves and how the what the treatment is of those benefits Al be it on a pre-tax or post tax basis so this is just a formality that we'd like to go through to have that plan uh this updated plan document uh that was prepared and formalize that through a a resolution that we we'll be bringing to you in the next regular meeting uh for approval of this section 125 cafeteria plan that we uh now have writing through through uh approval via resolution so that's just what we intend on doing I want to run that by you in case you had any concerns otherwise that'll be the plan for the next regular meeting do we have any public comment having no public comment commission no comment no as there's no additional cost incurred uh I recommend I'm I'm in favor of approving the section 12 five plan yes just to clarify this we're not changing benefits in any case so this is this is an additional cost of the city at all I agree thank you thank you very much Andrew so we'll move on to Public Works RFP 2024-the City cleaning this is Citywide all facilities um which includes City Hall rec center fire department all the public bathrooms um the reason for this is because the contract with all the Amendments expired it expired back in May but um we went out to bid and then we canceled bids due to a lot of confusion on the bid tabulation sheet so the reason for the confusion is obviously all the locations listed out but in the public restrooms archal um Tom and kitty Stewart Park John's Pass Park and John's Pass Vilan John pass Village sorry um those are cleaned twice a day seven months out of the year so I corrected the bid tabulation and we went out to bid again um with this we received quite a few submissions we narrowed that down to three and then we conducted interviews between the three that scored the highest out of the evaluations our recommendation is to move forward with American janitorial um the current contract is this is actually a savings to the city of what we are currently paying um we are currently paying $1 15,440 annually that covers all locations the new cost will be $136,300 with the exception that is just the base annual cost that does not include any emergencies or any extra cleanings that may be required for special events or um you never know what happens in those public bathrooms so with that being said um I'm here to answer any questions you may have um yeah do we have any public comment with no public comment commission questions uh couple questions uh what is it was there something what is it about American janitorial Incorporated that R them to the top was there something in particular was it the low cost was it what was it honestly um if you read through this sub midle and I believe I included that um they have they're very streamlined um they're when we met with the company they brought their lead person that manager um they have an app that for me is checks and balances um currently right now you know sometimes things are forgotten or not done but this app make sure that everything on that checklist is done and if they leave that space they are then notified that they need to go back and clean that or that they missed something um they honestly their costs did have a lot to do with it but just the way that they presented themselves um was really really good sounds like they're pretty efficient so I I would take your recommendation then all four of us that were in the interview felt that way yes how much was that cost again the for the new uh $136,300 contracts they actually do PSTA um which I had no idea actually how that trash was cleaned up at the bus stops now I know um but they have major city of D contracts yes and their references were outstanding and Ali did a reference check I would agree so fantastic thank you do they have their own insurance yes we require significant insurance and that's all in the subid as well thank you so the old company that charged us $150,000 a year that did not include emergencies either did it yeah ma'am no I don't have any further questions do you what is the bid tabulation on page 295 that says 160,000 is there something that's that was a confusing part again so there is with the bid um we're going to get a new bathroom at archal so the square footage is going to double so I wanted to ensure that we were getting both of those costs and then the potential for penell County Park bathrooms I wanted those numbers so that in the event we do get that restroom that we already have that number that we don't have to go out to bid so what they did was they added every single one of those light items but if you subtract out the county park in the second archall bathroom that's where the 136 comes from makes perfect sense you recommend them and it's a savings yeah it's a win-win in my book I agree and we would start the new contract September 1st do we have anything more yeah it is 8:54 we are adjourned