good evening everyone it's 6: p.m. February 28th Wednesday this is the Board of Commissioners Workshop city clerk we call the role please mayor rosc president vice mayor Kerr here commissioner tagini here commissioner MC here commissioner Brooks here all are present all right thank you kindly public comment for any items that are not on the agenda please come up thank you sir good evening everybody uh John Conley Madera Beach I'm here trying to uh see if we could solve a use access road over here at the Bicentennial Park on the other side of the bridge um I have a kayak and I see a lot of people that have kayaks and you have telephone polls all along that and you have an incline going down to the water like that it's it's fine to unload your kayak and go downhill but when you come back up the hill and then you have this telephone pole trying to put it in the back of your car truck whatever there is the access road there that you're not supposed to use so on so forth what I'm trying to get would be a use where you could go down to the beach with a sign put up a sign load unload and no parking you know and then go back out into the parking lot um and I just asked Jay and Jay said it is the County's Park but we maintain it so I'm trying to see if we could do something where people would have a little bit more access and it would be a little bit more friendly for a person like myself with a kayak thank you all right thank you city manager could we get this added to a future agenda certainly yes okay is there any other public comment on items that are not on the agenda please come up we'd love to hear from you all right next up is boc rules and responsibilities I think this was brought up by commissioner Brooks so I brought I did bring it up because I just wanted some clarification on our roles and Duty as commissioner mayor vice mayor I believe the city manager is going to start some discussion on that you included in your in the agenda packet are C Straight From the city's Charter what the roles and responsibilities are for the Board of Commissioners uh what your powers uh when you take oath the role of the mayor the vice mayor Commissioners what happens if vacancies Etc rules of procedure how many are necessary to to have a quorum to hold a meeting transact business um Etc uh in your role as the legislative body or elected officers and and we've had discussions certainly when all of you came into office regarding what the charter stipulates and what your role is what the role of administration uh the role of the city manager attorney Etc the charter officers uh you will this is more geared you'll encounter U interactions with either members of the public businesses visitors Etc and as I've shared with all of you there is uh a role that if there's anything that you believe that obviously that I should do a city manager you know there's an opportunity obviously to do that what we want to ensure is that there isn't a a a perception or a belief that there may be something that one of you may be doing as difficult to your role as a commissioner which is difficult to separate from just a resident uh here and obviously and that goes in any City uh but that's really kind of a reminder we wanted um and if there were any questions or to have a discussion how to handle that when there are issues that do come up or any of you some of you have brought up obviously I always am reminding you let me know of anything needing attention and and you do provide that that that's I will then through staff handle that and look for Resolutions obviously uh occasionally those resolutions involve other agencies at other levels of government County state federal uh and sometimes those can take a long time but we have had some issues that have kind of continued over over certainly the time that I've been here but I want to make sure that that you're all aware that going forward there will be my role to kind of you know intercede wherever is is possible and to try to handle the situation uh to do the followup that needs to be done whether it's with a with the county with the state or with any federal or other agency I think there have been some some questions some comments related to any anything that may have come before you whether from a resident a business or a visitor um or even just I mean well that pretty much covers just about everyone um but regardless that's the the role that I should be following up on is to provide that so that there isn't the opport opportun well the opportunity or the perception that something that you may or may not have done as a result of your role being an elected a member of the Board of Commissioners so that's kind of to reiterate that there have been a few instances where that has occurred and it's my role to make sure and to sort of be kind of a not necessarily A Medi mediator or moderator but something to make sure that there is whatever resolution can come about that that happens and I will follow that up um whatever that situation may be some of them come before a meeting here not all of them do um and they can really cover any topic or any that we do within our city anything from a marina issue to parking to Recreation whatever the case may be um so just remembering that you know your roles is adopt the ordinances resolutions um you know the the mayor has a little bit more overseeing these meetings the official signer of of different activities that you know the ordinances resolutions contracts agreements Etc and then certainly the role of administration and the role that I take in overseeing the day-to-day operations um so I don't know if commissioner you wanted to kind of go over anything um beyond that but really that's kind of the the purpose of this is really and I think to reiterate anybody that will watch or or is here that there are specific roles that the elected officials U perform and then obviously what administration does um certainly at any time anybody can go directly to any of the five of you with any issue concern accolades are welcomed as well um but really with anything and then it flows back through through the manager through the attorney um the clerk or AI or Finance as your as the charter officers in um in our Charter so it really just kind of uh if you have any questions or anything related to that I think all of you are very clear on the roles and the responsibilities you do have a policy manual um the clerk typically reminds me hey you know the the Board of Commissioners has a policy manual that is reviewed uh every year shortly after the election it's in our Charter um or I believe it's in our Charter that it's to be reviewed within 60 or 90 days following the election yeah 90 days 90 days um and we will again schedule to do that probably at the April Workshop to review that manual um and certainly the purpose of that is to make sure that the processes that you perform and and it is pretty extensive and it's in the packet you know at that time at that meeting if we need to make any changes to that manual that we discussed that and then proceed to make any changes that you would like um but really just kind of to just remind everybody of that and and if you have any questions or anything else let me know but as I did had in one-on ones um and not just recently but over the time period there there are again I will follow up on items that really need more followup again with external um particularly external agencies so whatever that might be um it it seems that some of them have kind of lingered or languished and without much followup but if there's any issue then I I will be the one to follow up or certainly direct somebody in our staff to follow up with any again any external agency or body or whomever that might be so be happy to answer any questions you may have or or any other comments or anything related um to that I think there there's there have been I mean in the two years that I've been here we do have a very active uh I guess citizenry you could call it um and there is there is a lot of very very positive history in the city and some history that every city has quirks and different things that tend to happen um with different personalities but it I truly believe that we have a very good commission and what we're doing now going forward it's again any issues that do come up there's still and I believe there will always be the perception uh among certain residents or within any City that elected officials tend to put that over being a resident and it is very difficult to separate those two um but that's where you know myself the City attorney uh can come in and and provide any any clarification or certainly any followup to avoid even the mere appearance of somebody stating oh well they were using their their name their position their office to do something that again we would not want that to come out none of that has happened I'm simply stating that that that's available I mean should we need should we ever get to that point of again the city manager stepping in and following up so that it doesn't come back to any one of you um that you may have followed up where in reality it not something that needed to happen so I was just looking for that clarification from our last meeting when the resident stood and spoke and the way the conversation started going just to make sure that we're all mindful that we are elected officials and we're here to serve the community as a whole and not to Target any individual or business is there any pop yeah I'm sorry go ahead commissioner anything else from the Commissioners any public comment on this please come up we'd love to hear what you have to say all right next item up then is building department depart code enforcement satellite office Frank and mayor and commission a reminder this uh and Frank will explain uh we have a budgeted sort mini Capital project I would call it uh for an expansion of our code enforcement sort of building area and that's in our current year budget I'll turn it over to Mr Dan Sanz thank you uh good evening mayor and Commissioners um I'm standing in front of you I'm asking for your permission to move forward with this satellite uh code enforcement satellite office that we want to build out downstairs um we went out for bid um back in November as you can see from the memo and uh we got a number back in December of 220,000 as the lowest bid of the three we originally uh had a had it proposed at 150,000 but that was well over two years ago and as you can see what happened in the past two years how inflated so I'm asking for your permission to move forward with this any questions Commissioners I don't have any questions Frank just if you could up the time frame on this um I talked to the um construction company and uh they could start it immediately and they could have it done within three months and the additional 40,000 that's noted in there is the city's direct purchase of the um Necessities the furniture the it stuff if we do direct purchase we can save even more money on that that's what that's for okay and this is city manager would would you explain what account this is coming out of because I don't think everyone understands it's not coming out of the general fund yeah it's not a general fund project this is coming out of our building fund uh which has had a um Andrew would know best I'm trying to remember it has had a a a fund balance that is approaching a level um where we had to take some action um which would that action um if we did not utilize or or or lower the fund balance that we would have to or lower it by virtue of either lowering building fees or utilizing for existing operations or capital projects so this is uh utiliz uh how we budgeted for it out of the building how we budgeted for this project out of the building fund um that again is not using any any tax dollars or any other fees other than those uh who are obtaining a building permit to build or renovate a structure structures and will allow for just greater flexibility and ease in our code enforcement and building [Music] operations is there any public comment on this okay I mean ISS the issue was discussed um the last couple of years so it's just a little more money now it is what it is it is I would my consensus I think everyone is to move forward yeah yes thank you mayor and Commissioners thank you you have a good night thank you all right next up is Community Development we have the city mid Beach master plan presented by a kimley horn and we have Miss Rowan our community development director to introduce thank you so if you all remember um we did post an RFQ is RFQ 23-12 to create a new city master plan uh we received three submittals and then we also had a city review team review all those submitt medals and Kim Le horn scored the top um so we asked Kim Le horn to come to the PCC Workshop tonight and do a presentation over the master plan so I'll turn it over all right good evening everyone uh thank you for having us here tonight my name is Hannah Schaefer I'm an urban planner at kimley horn and I'll be the project manager for this project I'm also joined tonight by Nicole gaso who will be our Deputy project manager and Jared Schneider who will serve as our senior advisor so we could go to the next slide please great so see our smiling faces there yeah we can stop at the slide so of course we know um this project is going to entail just you know the three of us which will be the core team um so we have a lot a team that has done a lot of projects in penis County specifically with Beach communities as well so we've all work closely together on a number of plans in the area we'll go to the next slide please so as I mentioned um we've done a lot of different projects ranging from a lot of different planning topics from transportation to Land Development codes comprehensive plan updates um resiliency and vulnerability assessments grant writing and historic inheritage preservation now I'll get a little bit more into specifically the master plan project so when we looked at the RFQ we developed an approach so this is what you're seeing tonight we're still in the process of developing a scope of work so we'll be coordinating further with the city staff on that so um as a draft um for our schedule we really anticipate this project taking about 12 months with the bulk of work happening between the 3 to 10 Monon time frame and we have the staff ability we've worked on similar projects like this in the past so we feel really comfortable about providing a on schedule deliverable for you we'll go to the next slide and this is our project approach and like I said we're going to be refining this further so we welcome any comments or questions from you all tonight that can help us uh refine that before we present the city with a draft scope um so it will really will be broken down into four phases the first phase will be a discovery phase where we're you know collecting data looking at um existing conditions and looking at any existing plans or previous planning efforts that could impact the new city master plan so really understanding where the city is at now to measure where it can be in the future and then the next phase will be the community um engagement phase envisioning phase so this is where we'll spend a lot of time with a lot of different engagement efforts to understand what community members stakeholders what city leaders would like to see in the community really trying understand where do you see madir beach in 10 20 30 years from now so that's what we're really trying to capture is that overall vision and then specific goals that um we can plan to and then the next phase the establishing the master plan phase this is where we'll take that vision and those goals and apply um planning principles to them and different planning elements strategies and recommendations and we know as we move through this plan there might a lot of different topics and themes that come up but right now we kind of anticipate these key themes here land use parks and open space um zoning multimodal Transportation sustainability and resiliency um Heritage and historic preservation and economic development in the last phase will be the plan implementation phase so this will be another key part of this we take those recommendations and apply a time frame to them and also fun fing strategies you know we could have the greatest plan in the world but if we don't have a way to fund it or implement it um it's just going to sit on a shelf which is exactly what we don't want to do we want to create a plan that's actionable and implementable next slide please if we could zoom out a little bit so we did um take these tasks that you saw in the schedule and we broke them down into the amount of hours and budget will be allocating for this project and of course um nothing is set in stone so if you feel that we should be allocating more time or prioritizing a task more than what we are here you know please let us know but we really felt that the bulk of the work will be spent on the community engagement phase then the plan development and implementation implementation phases we can go to the next slide so as I mentioned we're still developing the scope of work and we'll be coordinating further with City staff on that and once we we have a final draft um we can sign a contract and then we'll proceed with a project kickoff meeting shortly after that and that's all I have for you tonight so if you have any questions or um comments we're here to listen so can you give me just a little bit of detail about the community engagement section what does that look like is it city meetings is it just Board of commissioner meetings what does that look like yeah so that's something we always like to work with you know the city on you know what things have worked in the past what hasn't worked in the past you know we're really anticipating a wide range of activities so of course we could do a more traditional Workshop open house style we could do um charettes if that's preferred and we are anticipating some smaller stakeholder engagement so engaging smaller groups like business communities um School youth organizations um different um organizations in the city so a wide range to capture everyone's voice not just the people who typically come out to a public Workshop but there would be opportunity for just residents that AR yes yes it will be Focus mostly on Resident feedback thanks I have a question this is for the what's the difference between the master plan and the comprehensive plan maybe I don't know if that's a question for you but we have the master plan we have the comprehensive plan which is which is the danani plan that's the the master plan that's like your your vision your overall you're looking at 30,000 ft down okay so I would imagine you already have a copy of the dwani plan yes we do okay um and uh at the end of this I would imagine the deliverables would be similar to what the danani plan look like yeah it certainly can um we want to provide a plan that works works best for the city so if that is what works for the city we can provide something very similar um but we do want to work with City staff to make sure we are focusing on the things that are most important and I know there's a lot in that plan um and I've I've glanced over it but um we can provide as much detail in that if you would like or we can specify certain things will that deliverable one thing that's kind of lacking in the danani plan is kind of like a a timeline we expect these these uh items to be updated in five years these to be in 10 um is that is it too early to talk about how the deliverables are going to look and no I mean we we always do that in all our all of our plans we want to provide something that is feasible and implementable so almost all of our plans we do have you know things that can be done you you know a quick win or shortterm midterm long-term because we do understand you know some things are going to take longer depending on funding or just design construction but there are smaller things that can be done almost right away or in the short short term so we do anticipate that being part of the project okay um I think early on when the RFP RFQ went out uh two of the things that I wanted to make sure that were listed um was in that deliverable to you know to provide an understanding to the residents not only on the history of madir beach but the local economy and how that works and and the give and take with tourism and business and how it balances with uh services for the residents and um I want to make sure that that's part of it the Synergy between tourism and and residents cuz sometimes it feels like there's not really a Synergy there that you know the residents are sacrificing for tourism but we need to in my opinion I think that that needs to be addressed in the in the plan um and of course you know what do we want the city to look like um you know in 20 years and a guideline for that but um resiliency you know as far as you know flooding we have those kind of issues and I would imagine you're going to address those types of issues um you're nodding so that's an assumption okay and then the uh um what's most appealing as far as what I understand is is uh kimley Horn's available or ability to help us with the grants yes to make this get make this um happen yeah um can you tell us a little bit about how you go about that I mean do you have a special Department that's focused on that we do I can't give you know the full details if you want to go back to the slide with the I think there's seven faces on it um Joe kroer is our grand expert yeah there he is on the on the bottom right he's actually in our St Petersburg office so he is local but he provides services to all of our offices throughout the country so we have our in-house Grant expert right here in the area um so he's plugged in to you know not only state but also Federal grant opportunities and generally what he provides is a grants Matrix um to you all that will have any type of grant that could be applied for anything we might recommend in this project some stuff might be really specific but it will entail you know when those deadlines are what kind of match might need to be provided on the Cities end or maybe there is no match required and it'll be more detailed and you know the amount of funding available as well and then we can also look at you know outside of grant funding we can also look at tools and strategies to you know work with the city's budget or other opportunities locally in the area for Grants perfect one last question are grants available for the actual master plan for the 150,000 do do you know that would you be going down that road or is that something that we should talk to the city manager about I think we can look into that and the I think the they can kle horn can work provide a lot more uh information data support applications for the projects that will be carried out over the next 5 10 15 years really your bigger dollar expenditures but we have other sources to see what type but occasionally there are for these types of engagements but we'll look into as well perfect thank you yeah thank you I'm good thank you all set all right thank you all looking forward to working with you we're excited thank you I guess next up is John P Village Activity Center plan and [Music] Zoning all right and this slideshow will look very similar to what you've seen before and just feel free to stop me so why the activity center all these are the main reasons to protect the village the unique character of John's pest Village uh to assure that we have compatible Redevelopment with any new development in this area uh we must be consistent with the countywide plan and then this is really a proactive instead of reactive approach in planning so if you remember there's three major plans that we look at when we're looking at local land regulations we have the county with a countywide plan uh and then we we have locally our comprehensive plan and then our code of ordinances so the county is um very overarching of the intensities densities uh what you what use you can have on your land and then our comprehensive plan looks very similar to that and then in the zoning in the Land Development regulations that's more of the setbacks the height uh Landscaping requirements all of those more nitty-gritty of planning and all three of these plans have to um kind of talk to each other we cannot exceed any standards um higher than the countywide plan so here are the three Maps so each parcel of land has three different land use or three different categories on it you have the land use with the countywide plan the future land use with the comprehensive plan and then your zoning districts so going back in time back in 2007 and 2008 the city adopted regulations that were higher than what the county allowed um so we'll be going through three different standards uh we corrected this everywhere else in madira beach if you remember a few months ago we lowered standards on um the east and west side of Gulf Boulevard so I'll be referring back to the old standards so what it was before we corrected that what the standards are now and then the proposed standards in the activity center so the previous densities and intensities the ones that were not compliant with the countywide plan uh you can see where we exceeded the countywide plans intensities and densities here and then we corrected that a few months ago um with a lot of different ordinances changing up the the zoning districts um reducing all of those intensities and densities to match the countywide plan and then we also adopted that alternative temporary lodging use standard um where a property owner would have to apply for a development agreement to get higher standards and that was really to account for the previous standards that we had so this is what the standards are right now and then you can see um on the the left side the countywide plan um their standards and in in some of these we adopted uh standards that are lower than the county allows for but nothing higher so when we're going through this process when we found out these inconsistencies there really was a concentration of non-conforming properties so properties that did not meet uh those standards of the county that exceeded those standards so that's why in this area in John's Pass Village we're going for that land use change and that Activity Center designation really covers everything that is on the ground right now so you can see in this slide in the white boxes we have the previous so not what it is currently but the previous standards that were adopted back in 0708 and then the proposed standards with the activity center and then Andrew put together these lovely Maps um so we have on on the left side the existing density that takes in account residential and um temporary lodging use standards and then on the right side we have the existing intensity basic and basically anything in the darker Blues on the left are over 50 units per acre and anything um from like the orange down to the red is an F higher than a a 055 I think it's that lighter that lighter Orange right so there so as you can see uh the the floor area in floor area um we is treated as like air conditioned space um so as you can see there FS are very high down there and then the density especially on on the beach side and up madira Bay is uh relatively High also so uh the neighborhood center Activity Center category kind of encompasses both um and brings um them into uh compliance so here's the whole area of the activity center um but as we discussed before um it's broken down into six character districts which are really captured in uh the special area plan as well as it will be captured in the zoning all of these will be different zoning districts so on the countywide plan map um it's changed to this activity center of a neighborhood center subcategory and then next boc meeting you'll be voting on the future land use map this is in the comprehensive plan so on the map it would look like this it would just be one area as activity center but in the special area plan that 70 page document um that's kind that's like attached to the comprehensive plan it really talks about each of those six character districts the intensities and densities that are listed within there and then in the future uh we will have the zoning map um which will look similar to this and I think this is important to bring up I know we brought it up before but um in the zoning it's in the land use and Zoning that um there's a lot of inconsistencies the land use has the intensity that's the floor area ratio of that 0.55 um and that's also at the County's level um so that's the ratio between the land area and the easiest way to imagine it is the air conditioned area so about half of the land um could be built on a one-story building well that's not what is down at John's Pass Village as we know and then looking at our zoning um our zoning also does not reflect the character of what is built down there so here this is taken from our zoning um and we just did a quick SketchUp of what that looks like with the setbacks and that does not match the character of John's F Village so that'll be fixed in the zoning it'll be fixed in the land use the comprehensive plan and then after it'll be fixed in the zoning and here is the proposed intensities and densities again and anywhere with the asteris is that um alternative temporary lodging use standard and those are the standards that a property owner can apply for um to get those higher standards and they would have to have a development agreement that would go to Planning Commission as well as BC and the next slide talking about those um alternative standards another thing that's very unusual that's in the countywide plan the county um states that the structured parking is counted in the floor area ratio now what I stated before the floor area ratio the ratio between the lot and then the imagine the air conditioned area so it's not typical to count that parking area so that's that's a big thing um when we're looking forward to these to the floor area ratio with those alternative temporary lodging use standards is that you have to account for that structured parking and we know anything in the past will require parking um and you would imagine a larger Hotel would require more parking um as well as a lot of developers would want an excess of parking since parking is very much needed down in the past um as well as the development agreements just the local requirements one Planning Commission meeting one boc meeting uh there is a mailed notice of 300 feet of the property it's advertised in the newspaper and then also posted on the property and using this alternative standard uh the development agreement at a minimum uh must meet all of these things so they must provide concurrency analysis hurricane evacuation plans so anytime that there the county calls for Hurricane watch uh the hotel would have to be evacuated um Mobility management and then design considerations um operating characteristics and restrictions so it's not just an easy contract there's there's a lot of Hoops um that this development agreement would have to go through and this is just at a minimum so the BC could also ask for additional things on top of these requirements which is not typical of most developments and then there's other local requirements so I imagine if someone is asking for these alternative standards be a bigger building so therefore um in our site plan um section in our code anything over 2, one square feet would be considered a major site plan and then that would require a neighborhood meeting and then it would also have to go to Planning Commission for review and then of course we have our local regulations which are in the zoning code so setback height um flood plane require ironment Landscaping drainage all of those things so where we are in this whole process I know it's been a long process last week we had uh the countywide plan um established the activity center there was a public meeting at the county level uh that was voted on 6 to one to approve the Activity Center um so now it goes back to boc at your next meeting on the 13th and then after that we will be amending the Land Development code to establish those zoning districts and then we also included this um might just be good to flip back and forth or whenever we're discussing but this has all of at the end of the packet um it says all the previous the current standards and the proposed standards so the previous was the standards that were adopted in 07 08 um or before that the current standards are the standards when we reduced things to be compliant with the county and the proposed standards are the standards that are proposed in the activity center designation and as you can see in the boardwalk District uh We've removed any potential to gain any temporary lodging density from that property in the boardwalk District while previously and currently there is potential to get temporary lodging density off of the boardwalk so uh the Johns pest Village Activity Center plan would fix that and and remove that um in in the commercial core um previously was 60 by right um now it was a 40 by right and or 60 uh with a development agreement with alternative temporary lodging standards and the proposed is uh 60 uh temporary lodging units by right like how it was previously and then uh depending on lot area less than an acre 75 units per acre and uh more than an acre up to 100 with a with a development agreement um in the John's Pass Resort um previously it was up to um um 75 temp temporary lodging units per acre and a two F depending on uh amount of lot area um and then current uh we reduced it um but uh the proposed would uh do 60 by right which is lower than the previous 75 and then uh 75 to 100 with a development agreement and less than acre 75 and more than acre 100 and and it's important to remember there are condo and other buildings mult down there that are that are pushing SE like 60 70 units per acre some of the older older condo buildings down there so there are existing buildings uh usually about six stor Ries that are that are about that size currently um the low intensity mixed use um previously this area is kind of kind of where it was rezoned in in the early 2000s to R3 um but the future land use wasn't uh corrected um so they I don't know exactly what year they they did this but they rezoned this area Pelican Lane to R3 and R3 is what's on on the west side of Gulf Boulevard so everything on the beach is that R3 so as rezoned R3 they should have also done a land use change no one ever did so those don't match each other this corrects that so that's why you have a lot of different zoning and comp plan they didn't match each other so now it will and and as you can see uh the temporary lodging units per Acer by right if in the proposed is reduced um from the 45 to 75 240 and uh 60 would be allowed with the altern temporary lodging use standards um which is less than the buite that was uh 75 previously um and that area is like very tiny area so the it's not I think it's like a little more than an acre it's very Mo it's mostly built out there's only a couple like little vacant Lots down there so um the traditional Village we had um it was previously um like how that um 60 temporary lodging units per acre by right and then we're reducing that to 45 um the the reason why we're doing this is we want to make sure to uh protect the commercial uses within the village and and keep that area uh primarily a commercial um like the kind of the nice kind of Main Street feel it has currently and in the zoning we're looking to write in and I think it's it's written like this in the C1 zoning that temporary lodging or residential can only be above commercial so we will be keeping that so the ground floor will have to be commercial so you don't have any dead space and then the transitional um um was uh up up to 75 temporary lodging units per acre previously and the proposed were reducing that to 50 by right and then 75 with a with a development agreement um so so as you can see in some areas we reduced temporary lodging density or completely removed it and in some areas it went up slightly with a development agreement but as you can see we're adopting much stricter language uh which um makes makes it much harder and and requires a lot more work for the uh developer to apply for because it's important to make sure that that any new Redevelopment um benefits the community and and and mitigates its impact so we wanted to make sure that language was in there to uh um make sure the city is is able to have have control over that Commissioners any questions um so in my my my current continuing Endeavor to understand this every detail of this so I can answer with authority to Residents we we go back and we seems like we use two me different kinds of measurements floor area ratio and units per acre uh can you give me a just a I don't know if there's a simple Contra contrasting or definition and why do we use one for some things and what why do we use it some one for other things floor area ratio versus uh units per acre so everything in the activity center you'll use both unless if it's commercial so commercial doesn't have any residence it also doesn't have any temporary lodging so commercials only looking at the floor area ratio and that's and and so why do we use two different ones right so then say if you're building a condo um or you want to do a Triplex you're going to be looking at that residential units per acre so you take your lot size the acreage of your lot size and then multiply it by that units per acre and so then if you're building a hotel or doing temporary lodging not vacation rental but temporary lodging um where you have a hotel management company that's when you use the temporary lodging units per acre so you're going to use that temporary lodging units per acre as well as the floor area ratio so you're going to have those two standards that you have to as well as unit per acre is going to be more for temporary and Florida area ratio is going to be sorry units per acre is more for permanent or condos or we use it for residential and then we also Al use it for uh temporary lodging so if you look at this slide that's up you have the re UPA so that's residential so if you're building a Triplex you want to build a little condo or town Helms we're looking at those standards so we take your the area of your lot the acreage of your lot and multiply it by that or if you say hey I want to build a hotel we'll look at the temporary lodging units per acre um and then we'll multiply it by your lot but in both the residential and temporary lodging you also are using the floor area ratio so you're always using that floor area ratio in the activity center uh it's just if you're doing commercial that's all you're looking at does the county also use both measurements all the time um do they have a preference it can vary an activity center it's all the all inclusive F which encompasses all the air conditioned space of commercial and either residential or temporary lodging density um in other for other land use categories it's usually proportional where they allocate the density to certain part of the the lot area and then they allocate the commercial floor area to the other the county primarily uses floor area ratio as their measurement am I hear is I hear well it depends on what type of land use and the county has different Visions but in the activity centers it's usually like an all-inclusive F that includes all the air conditioned space of both uses I I mean it makes it usually more restrictive to have to do that all inclusive F because that limits honestly how much density and and the size of the hotel rooms because if if you think about it like down there like they're going to have to have the ground floor retail so that's going to take away like a portion of your floor area right there yeah right and then if they do the alter temporary lodging standards they have to count their parking garage and that'll take even more air like the floor area ratio and then you're left with your units that you can that you can so floor area ratio tends to be more restrictive um no so if you're doing like a condo or a hotel you have both standards you have to so it's a little I wouldn't say more restrictive but it it controls better of um of what's built down there because you have these two standards that you're looking at and then what Andrew is saying if someone is asking for those alternative temporary lodging use standards where you have to have a development agreement you also have to include the garage right okay thanks thanks for your patience explaining that thank you um did a great job on the page 87 the existing far and the existing density on page 89 I was just kind of thumbing through here I should have done it before the meeting but as it as it is and comparing the existing to the proposed versus what was existing in the code to the proposed um and I think that's where people might you know raise their hand and say this is a little extreme um and so I'm I'm going to put together a little spreadsheet and send it send it to you and see if I'm reading this right but you know with the temporary lodging which is the most extreme for um density versus um and I'll just throw one out okay existing far in the in the commercial core I'm seeing at a 0.55 is that correct EX existing to remember though that it's important to remember though that many of the existing buildings exceed that and let me just yeah there we go yeah then then then it's not existing you're talking about the um the old standards is that no not the standards unless I'm reading this wrong existing density residential density on 89 and then you know flip the page forward page 87 existing far so if the existing far is the most extreme is 1.2 and that's in the that's in the John's Pass Resort area but everything else that is existing far is a 0.55 and then we're jumping so so on for panel's map so I I included all the materials for pelis had in the countywide uh like map Amendment meeting that they did last week this map here shows the existing residential uh densities that that were that are on looks like on the countywide rules because it's mentioning the 30 because we don't even allow on their map they allow 30 units per acre we don't for the residential um I would like so because the county was looking at their stuff at their meeting so a lot lot of the maps and the we're looking at the densities they had on their maps and as shown we're what we're proposing is more restrictive than the Count's Max maybe it's maybe it's my understanding of the definition existing are we talking about because I a previous meeting someone asked I don't remember who exactly what is physically there now and this is on this map right here on in in the slides we printed out for you and on the um TV um and on the existing densities as you can see most of the higher density stuff's on the beach side like some of these condos that were built in the 70s and 80s and stuff like Barefoot Beach Club in madira Bay that were built so page I'm I'm flipping back to the it's not in your it's not in the agenda packet not in the agenda package I'm reading that wrong okay existing has to do with code not with what is actually there it has to do with the Cy's plan so if we flip to the package that you just hand it out I'm just trying to understand there's a lot of numbers so yeah it gets confused it's it's it's and maybe it would help be helpful can we can we have this emailed to us so that we canite after the meeting a lot of we can't really read lot of the pieces here so you did go through and and do the map and I applaud you for that um of what is actually built not what's in the code not what was approved not what not what that could be built but what is actually there what so that is that that is the map that you referenced that you have on the screen right now um where is that in my package here what page is that uh i' it should be slide nine page five of your of the handout oh okay yeah there it is couldn't find so that is and that shows the far okay so we have an A see this is makes a lot more sense because in the John's past resort area you look it appears you have a far of 1.5 to 1.75 so we're saying 1.75 and what's proposed is 2.0 that's very close that's not going to raise a lot of problems as far as the um UPA the density that same area I'm even with my glasses is on them can't read this but it looks like it's the most extreme maybe you can read it for me you have young eyes what is that say so basic most of the existing density is is on either on the beach side or up near madira Bay and it's about 50 to 70 units per acre um so I mean the SE 75 if that was the direction you wanted to go with capping at Max of 75 that would encompass everything within that so what I'm seeing here and I'm just using this John's Pass Resort area that I'm reading that as 60 to 70 and we're proposing 75 I believe it should be with the let me just go go back to the John's past Resort um just wanted to go to that one so we're proposing 60 by right for temporary lodging and depending on lot area size um 75 to 100 um you guys are more than welcome to motion to cap it at 75 because that would Encompass everything I I think that's really where everyone's just trying to get their mind around what is being proposed and how will this impact future generations of development so the 75 is that's the alternative temporary lodging use standards so that's when someone would have to apply for that development agreement go through that whole process 60 units per acre is just by right so you wouldn't have to go through that whole process um and the 75 to 100 that's dependent on your lot size right so anything greater equal to or greater than an acre then you get a 100 less than that it's 75 right I mean it's so much information and you know we we've got um in on that same page John's Pass Village activity center it's all blue everything's blue what's that mean you know that mean it mean it means it's high higher density higher density but then it really you're breaking you have a by right to to go with higher density in this activity center and then it breaks down into the different subcategories you can't exceed the density I mean if if you have something that's right up against that that say whatever the Max Denia they're not especially with these non-conforming condo buildings they can't add any any more like to non-conforming building right it's not at the end of the day the residents want to be able to say all right if they tear that building down they can put something similar back or not or it's going to be much more you know or they if they tear you know this they tear down a smaller structure here what can they build it's going to be similar or it's not you know by right so I applaud you for putting putting these together now we just now to have to incorporate him or I do into some sort of chart to understand it so what what what was what's fre ask us questions send residents our way we're more than happy to answer any questions we understand this whole Activity Center can be very confusing there's a lot of numbers going out there so you're looking at what's on the ground existing standards old standards proposed standards what's floor area ratio what's density the county says what the city says what it used to be I get it on a positive note compared to like because I I I was keeping up with some of the news that was going on in St Pete Beach and on positive note something like that it's not possible to be built there the way we've written it the way the land is set up um the way the requirements were in putting in place um because when you when you look at down there they have these Big Lots like they have I think about nine acres of buildable land that's just a rectangle no public streets nothing coming through like cutting through it and they allow for much higher Heights than than what we allow and like it's just not physically possible to build any like the largest thing that could potentially be built there would be about one six the size of what what was approved in St Pete Beach like one six the size probably about half the height give like so that's what I mean we've ritten this in a way um to make sure we don't get large resort projects like that I understand that but if a but a plan development throws throws it all out except for the the extremes and which which like I said I think the special area plan still in the land use stuff still regulates a PD so I mean the PD can't violate the future land use or the special area plan so I mean whatever they they still got to come in and meet those requirements if they do a development agreement they still got to prove there's enough sewage capacity that they've mitigated traffic impacts um so I I mean it's a long drawn process I understand and I also wanted to point out um because I know there's there's been some confusion on that alternative temporary lodging use standards all those numbers with the asteris right that's just for a development agreement so you don't have to get a you don't have to reone to a PD um so say if somebody wants to go through those standards they would still have to adhere to all the setbacks the height everything that's in the zoning so it's not changing your zoning now when you apply for a PD you also have to do the development agreement so that's why there can be some confusion you're saying oh the development agreement a lot of people connect that with the PD but the that alternative temporary lodging use standards not with the PD it's just the development agreement great thank you hope I send this out so I can yes and let us know if you have any questions we we are here perfect thank you any other questions please so I would like to clarify we talked about this in our meeting um a couple of things one the county would have allowed by write 100 units per acre yes okay number two that I had on my notes is um because a lot of the the questions that are in the community that I've heard um is based on people believing that someone is going to build a huge Hotel down in John's Pass and I know that from what you've given us and taught us over the course of the months that we've been working on this years actually going back to the Planning Commission is that what the primary goal here is to bring into compliance the buildings that are existing so where some things are increasing they're increasing so that those buildings would be able to be rebuilt but what I think would be helpful if you could give us a quick idea of if someone purchased an acre of land down in John's Pass and they were going to tear everything down off of that acre of land what would the building the hotel that they would build what would that look like taking into consideration units per acre and they have to meet the F and parking is included in the F which was not in the past correct that's only if you're doing the alter alternative and that's what I'm talking about I'm talking about if somebody a development agreement if we could tell the community what that building sitting on one acre that we'll say hotel so that people could have a visual of what would be built there and they're not thinking that oh they're going to build a 15-story building and there's going to be 3,000 rooms I think that visual would be helpful I think it's important to remember and I I showed because of Fisherman's alley cutting through a lot of those Parcels it really limits the size and scale of what you can build and then also with the ground floor commercial requirement that also that takes up a lot of the floor area ratio as well as the parking um which okay so if you have one acre of land that's going and you go the alternative temporary lodging use you get that so you're going to have a 100 units um but you're also going to be capped at let's go to the oh I just missed it okay you'll also be capped at that 3 F so you're going to have um imagine just over the entire land three stories of just straight building obviously we'll have setbacks so if you reduce that they'll probably add one more floor one more or maybe one and a half floors so you're looking at four floors maybe maybe a fifth floor um over half but we can we can see if we can put together some sort of visual um just to bring that back or email that out because I know that the next time we'll meet will be whenever we're you will be voting on this so and the County's already voted on this so as far as the county is concerned this is what it is yes so if we do not adopt this then we're out of compliance with the county yes and we would have to go back to the county um and I imagine we would have to ask for um re not resoning it but U changing the land use back to what it was yeah and we have not talked to the county about that but they have changed it on their level and this change um to the neighborhood center I mean we had gone in they advised us to reduce we've reduced so we've really followed the guidelines of the county yes definitely thank you so now it's Neighborhood Center so similar to passag Grill Palm Harbor downtown um District um and then I think there's one in tarp and springs yeah and there's a kind of mix use apartment complex look like a lowrise apartment complex and a um dened so so these are kind of smaller either historic things or smaller mixed use developments more like Main Street feeli which is what we have down there yeah and and it's important to remember that this category is more restrictive than than what town center has it's more basically more restrictive than any other of the beach activity centers so like and you can't do those large single building Resorts like even even a 100 rooms down there would probably be split between two buildings because there's streets cutting through a lot and the lots are very narrow so you can't really you end up having to have built because that's what John's Pass it has all these nice little small streets like Fisherman's alley Gulf Lane Pelican L like all these nice little streets and and that's the way we want to keep it so um and that's the way we've written it I think another thing that I would like to remind us that I'm particularly fond of and have heard from residents is that this also gives us a lot more control over the exterior look of the building where we did not have that control on the Town Center I I think showing showing if you could show us a visual of the build of what someone could do it'll be um pretty generic is but just giving people an idea of height because I think even though um when we go to doing the next step which is zoning is where we're really going to address the height of buildings I think that setting the Public's mind at ease that there's not going to be a 15 story 1500 room Hotel down in John's Pass would be very beneficial of course yeah we'll I'll email that to Robin and he can send that out anything else have anything any public comment on this okay thank you for doing what I asked about breaking it down of course was really helpful great job great job all right next up Chief says something about the fire department here it's got to be all good always all right good even evening uh mayor vice mayor commission what we have in front of you is the current Statewide Mutual Aid agreement uh which is put out through the state emergency response plan and we the last one was signed in 2018 they made a few changes nothing that would drastically affect any uh Mutual Aid that we provide or that we receive and essentially what this is is allows us to uh either provide Mutual Aid like we did for Hurricane Ian or receive Mutual Aid in case we were to to be impacted like Fort Meyers was and then it also allows us to have the opportunity to re request funds from FEMA for reimbursement so that that's what is presented in front of you and every municipality H has is bringing this to their commission right now because it's uh they're requesting it by March but yeah that that's essentially what it is it's just an update there's no revisions NOP yeah it's just they do it every few years the last time they did it was 2018 Commissioners any questions any public comment okay all right Chief next all right uh just to provide a update on where we are with the Readington Municipal Building um again the everybody knows uh the County allowed Madura Beach to take that project over allow me to be the project manager for it uh we should have a clean agreement from the county soon that will be presented to you all as well for agreement and what it what it is is they had to change a few things but it usually their Agreements are the city will front the money and then we'll request reimbursement from the county but they're going to change it so it doesn't have any impact on those fiscally at all so that yeah exactly it's going to be great so they at this point all I do is request for a draw whether it be for plan review concrete whatever it may be like a construction loan exactly exactly and um right now Wilder Architects they're completing the second half of the plans we're being cautiously optimistic hoping to break ground over there uh July is that's what we're hoping because half the plans were already done and then that kind of started to fall apart and Wilder wouldn't complete them unless they were obviously going to be paid so this is where madira Beach stepped in and said we can don't you know it's not a dead project let let us see what we can do so that's where we're at with that and a quick update for our medic unit it was a struggle to get all the lights and the sirens and Equipment uh the extendable uh pullout bed uh we've received all of that it's all installed it's at Motorola right now getting the uh Sierra wireless modem and we're hoping that it'll be in service by Wednesday of next week just in time for spring break so absolutely thank you for the update Chief yeah any questions Commissioners perfect any public comment all right next up well we got public works department we have anything there no I'm sorry that's okay Recreation Department okay [Music] uh good evening mayor Commissioners uh bring uh in front of you uh purchase for an ADA bus uh for our programming um long and short of it we have uh an existing or not we have an existing bus that we're looking to replace uh it is a shorter bus that uh does not have Ada accessibility to it um we've looked at the Florida sheriff's Association contract and have obtained uh a purchase contract within our budget well just outside of our budget but with the tradein of the old bus would put us underneath our budget and we'd be able to replace that uh and get us a larger bus that has ada8 capabilities that would serve um our social club programming as well as our after school programming and it would also help uh in the instance that we utilize these buses for special events uh travel from off-site parking lots and everything else so um long and short of it it's kind of a long time coming thing that we've we probably should have done in the past haven't had the need for it but we're we're starting to see the need for it now and definitely don't want to be put in a situation where uh we do need it and don't have it so um this is a bus that is sitting on the lot ready for purchase and uh would put us in a good situation with the programming so are we currently in violation of some federal ordinance with since we're not ADA Compliant with the bus we've made alternative transportation necessary in in the case that we've run into that issue but this puts it all in one place this would put us all in one place um staff my myself uh Max as well as a third bus driver all have the license to drive this bus and uh we'll be trained on operation of the Ada uh features of it as well so good thanks any other questions from the Commissioners I just go back to are we looking at Grants have we have we looked at um eics or whatever it's called or um other grant opportunities to help offset some of this cost um I'm not sure that we have with this I can look further into it um yeah whether it's in the budget or not right I understand we can look into that I appreciate it yeah absolutely any public comment on this okay thank you you have something anybody else I I do mayor oh please yeah if I could just um not on this particular issue but before we wrap up the meeting I just wanted to bring to your attention that the second district court of appeal has issued its mandate on the case that Mr Gay filed against the city as well as uh former mayor Hendrick Commissioners Andrews price and Hodges uh the Mandate basically ends that lawsuit U that was filed by Mr Gay against the city and those individuals um as a direct result of there being no request for rehearing and no request for written opinion so that case is final now I just want to let you know that that case was based upon an argument that that the city and those four Commissioners um violated the Sunshine Law the court found that they did not great could I ask a question Robin um could we get an idea of what that cost the city in sure attorney fees to defend against that yes not today but at a future meeting please anybody else have anything time is 7:19 p.m. and we will adjourn