excited my granddaughter is having them boy and a girl congratulations D yeah I'm really happy so what number grandkids great great great grand yeah yeah yeah okay everybody on at this time I'm going to call the June 26th meeting of the maple shet planning board to order public notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings act would everyone please rise and salute the flag I to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all maybe we have roll call the board please prict matus here Daniel McDonald here glad walp Susan Danon Steve Smith present John beardon here Emily Wes here Maran Constantine here Justin bannett here chairman Dugan here the first item on the agenda tonight will be 11 West Main Street block three lots eight so block 63 I'm sorry you said three thank you I'm sorry I was going to skip right over existing in use it's a vacant travel agency space the proposed use is full service Mexican food restaurant with seating the application has site plan waiver and changes of use approval good evening hello welcome Alan thank you Mr Dugan I am Ellen McDow I am representing the applicant which is ID G key Shiki Shiki that was very close um so um you you the board what this is about if I can just ask well I guess you got to swear people in we're going to testify we need to swear in we're going to have Israel and um David both uh potentially testify as well as Mr anell so why don't we swear them all and then if they testify there's no big deal good uh please raise your right hands do you swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight would be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes yes sir thank you please say your names and addresses David Morales isra Morales Anthony okay so Israel um addresses needs addresses addresses your ma phy the my address or the all three of you we need your addresses with your name 405 B Avenue 7D sunflower M po 50 54 Laurel Avenue pens Mr chairman before we get started if I could just I think the issue of completeness needs to be addressed for the application if you would look at our letter of uh page two we talk about submission information the applicant is requesting a waiver of site plan we have been working with them uh Mr Sony and myself uh to come up with some kind of a solution uh we had been at site plan with this applicant where the site plan uh Review Committee had identified there were some there was some information necessary for the applicant to submit but that a full sight plan would not be necessary so we identify five items here one is that there be an updated survey any yet it really would only have to be for the portion of the site which we're focusing on and it's really for the board to know it's the back of the site with the trash dumpsters are all just sort of located they also own that grass strip next to the end of the building across from is that Wells Fargo right there so they're looking to provide us with an enclosure with some landscaping around it and that is their property initially we did not know that it's site plan or that the applicant realized that that was their property so we're looking for the updated survey is that something you would be providing us yes yes okay thank you uh trash and recycling that always has to be identified that's something that we I just spoke about and that's something you're going to be showing us where they will be located yes sir okay um ex existing site lighting to make sure we have a safe access way in the back there that's something that could be shown on that site plan also yes sir uh ADA compliance I know we spoke about that at our last professional meeting is that something you would be looking at providing uh potentially yes I I I have a couple questions but that's where I've uh engaged with a civil engineer perfect today and uh you know we have a couple questions to of fine tune but we're on the same page and the last thing was a landscape plan in accordance with our ordinance 178 22.1 and I believe we had talked about some buffering being there something that was kind of a low maintenance issue but would still provide some Greenery and and I can work with the applicant's engineer when he he gets one to provide that so with that I can recommend if the board recommends the application be deemed complete and the application can be heard subject to the fact that they're going to provide all those those items to us so we're going to accept the application as complete based on these accept they they've agreed to all the items after our meeting so I just wanted to point that out and make sure it's on the record so they have agreed to the items that you they have sir okay thank you Fred sorry sorry Ellen that's right good important stuff out of the way all in favor all in favor to deem the application complete all in favor to deem the application complete opposed okay all right good well so you I'm sure have gleaned that Mr Anon um owns the property at 11 West Main Street um and um my my folks are looking to rent it for a Mexican restaurant so Israel um how do do you have any experience Running a Restaurant yes I'll be working here and salano pizza here in Maple shet yeah I don't somebody know for 16 years there so I'm living here in Maple shet for 20 years then after that in 2014 we open a Mexican restaurant in willing B with my other brother okay so the restaurant is still open and we have 10 years working there I'll be working there with my brother all the time so now we see the opportunity to open to move here close to my house and open a Mexican restaurant here in the area because I like here so I I would prefer to stay here so that's why we see the change for we want to try it so the restaurant that you're proposing will it be mainly eat in or mainly take out mainly take out because we only we're going to have like three tables three tables how many seats Al together do you think three table for like 12 12 okay and what would the oper uh hours of operation be the hour is going to be um Sunday to Thursday is 11: to 9:00 p.m. and Friday and Saturday 11: to 10: p.m. all right and how many employees do you expect to have six but just four at the time we want to switch like maximum four at a time yeah okay so there be more than one shift yeah okay um and um where will the folks Park where will the employees Park in parking they have L parking if um maybe going to give a right to coule guys so okay so not everyone will have cars but when exact they'll they'll Park in the municipal lot okay and I think you all have the photographs I mean we're all familiar I'm sure with the these locations I believe been provided to you just so you have them in front of you um do you know what was most recently in this space there was a travel agency before okay so now it's empty now you can see the picture is how is it right now okay um and um so you're working with Mr Antonelli on the trash disposal for the restaurants y you're going to have a dumpster outside and they're working with that as far as screening and all that kind of thing um is there a separate um disposal for used cooking oil yeah right there we want to put out one there's one existing one 250 g okay and it's been there for 10 or more years okay and does it do you have any um knowledge of whether it attracts rodents or I've been taking care of the property since I was 20 so 40 plus years no rodents no nothing no bad odors nothing like that no it's all closed up uh lids and everything slides it's it's self-contained um very very you know good okay um that's really all I have for the Morales Brothers um if you have questions then fire away I'm Mr Anon I brings I was when you built the place the mini mall you and Charlie Goffman were oh yeah my PO I was I was only 15 then I was I was there at the time yeah those were the days were the best they were the was great so you're saying there's one 250 gallon of call an oil T really there's two of them the Chinese restaurant has one and we have and we have uh the other through ganos now are they going to share one of them or they put in their own I'm kind of thinking it's possible on that the the trash container um whether it's a four yard or three yard dumpster everyone will be responsible for their own and uh I have a plan you know that's accommodates four dumpsters so we're you know all we need is three for now but there's there's space enough for four plus the grease the waste oil the way it was laid out is on the in the back behind the dumpsters I'm assuming that isn't emptied as often obviously yeah the guys are saying though the guy comes collect once a week yeah he can come like every every okay in the event they couldn't share this with ganos would they have to get their own then they would uh I imagine so because you know it's see that are you guys paying a monthly or a yearly fee for the actual no the container itself for for that service it's all kind of like a freebie okay that the guy the guy so there's no fee so right there is no fee on that right so but but in the event uh to answer your question that they would need their own we would have to accommodate that within this trash enclosure area so right and that and that and that could be possible by a backto back correct uh uh arang right yeah I'm just heard if he's saying he's getting emptied once a week 250 guns katanos is probably the same that's a lot no no I mean the guy can come empty like every week but we don't use that much oio so he come he see how usually we use how much Oo we use at the week and he say okay I'm going to come this week if if this like we use a lot of Oo we can call him and he can come right away but he usually watch how how soft we use it he come every two weeks every month wherever depends how much shoulder we use okay so they make money off of that is that what's happening yeah he make money he make money that doesn't cost you anything to remove he sells he wants it that's why he come right away don't somebody else come and take it lot of Mr anel you said you had some questions on do you want to bring them up tonight or so on can I run through these first and I think we may answer the questions okay and whatever won't be very we like I said we've met several times and I think we've got just about everything worked out okay so I just want to let you know what we worked on so the board's clear so that way that the board has some questions in their mind right then right then we may be able to answer those also if you don't mind um the first item Ellen went through and you the hours of operation we're we're aware of the number of seats and tables I hear some people on the board always say well you should ask for more just in case so they said 12 chairs three tables is that where you want to be or another range on up to the board if they yeah CU it's it's always easier to say I'm have four tables and 16 seats and only do three and 12 cuz if do 3 and 12 and then you want 4 and 16 you got to come back yeah but the problem is the room is not we we're just giving you that opportunity looking at the Flor planes I don't see a possibility of that that's fine like I said it's just sometimes it's easier on you to go a little then then have them come back and haunt you um next item is with regard to signage facade signage you will comply I guess with our Township ordinance through Mr Sony is there any unusual signage or proposing anything in the window any flashing lights or no we just want to put the same sign like the been out for the travel agency okay all right um trash we we did speak about the trash and recycling that was number four um so there's no issue with that uh as far as the timing they're they're here before us tonight uh Mr Sony rushed them in to come to see us so they can get started uh I did talk to them and how long would it take you to get your business up and running if you were to start in a week is this an 8 we a 12 week potential construction interior as well as exter grease trap because this was not a restaurant previously so there they will have to go through the sewer department there will be a grease trap required to be installed out front uh somewhere on Main Street they'll have to excavate the sidewalk so how long do you think to get the ovens and the sinks and all that installed how long do you think that would take you maybe a couple months like a months at least two months at least two months so I mean for the construction all that right so my my thought was when we had met with the applicant is it's going to take them 8 to 12 weeks to really get things going we didn't want to hold them up so it would be my recommendation that when if the board acts favorably on the application that we allow them to get building permits subject to the site plan being submitted within a time frame that you would want to poast 30 60 days I think 60 days would be be reasonable that way we could see the Trap uh the trash area the the landscaping and so forth Landscaping can't really go in at this point until October 15th or so about because of the weather especially with what we've been uh getting right now so giving 60 or 90 days is not really much of an issue and they'll be dealing with everything inside cutting floors up and ceilings and fire suppression systems and all that um so that would be my recommendation with regard to the trash the the Landscaping show the lighting and and the ada8 parking that we give them maybe 60 days or whatever time frame you may feels reasonable that way they can get that done in a parallel path to doing the inside it won't be done before they open yes I would say it would be a condition of a TCO we get everything right and that that would put the pressure on Mr anelli over there to get get this done uh in a timely manner so that that was our conversations and including in that I flipped to page three we had talked about some Paving details and so forth if there's work concrete details and that would be meeting with the applicants uh engineer six was the Landscaping as I said we're going to try to do a little softening of that grass area and buffer the trash area and I think it'll go a long way from the appearance from Fort Landing Road especially absolutely um the updated survey that's part of the Africans engineer uh eight was the grease trap and obviously they will need one so that's a process and permits you're going to have to go through uh and I'm sure Mr Sony will help you walk through that process oh okay um and that's really it you answered the question about the odors and rodents and so forth so that's that's all I really have tonight except that condition is really not in the letter but I think that's reasonable to help uh these folks get started and run a parallel path and so I have unless you have questions so just as far as what's required in order for them to obtain a TCO you know to get through the final step it would be a submission of a partial site plan showing the rear parking area and that lawn area so for comp compliance purposes not a new site plan application no right right that's what I just wasn't clear on but understood you know site plan waiver tonight conditioned upon the applicant submitting an partial plan not quite partial sight plan not quite a site plan but something approaching us like right I have a question what's the name of the restaurant we thinking about we was thinking about like Main Street taco t Main Street Taco is the principal the mind but main M so what's the name of your place in willing bro uh Gilles Gilles was my my f my father's name was Galo Mexico so everybody call him Gilly we was little three kids so they call us Gillies always hey Gillies Gillies because my father so that's why we put that nameb that's go that's cool show the menu just quickly I get it to you you want to watch see oh he's like food looking you know your head so quick now there's Pizza on that menu there's not going to be Pizza there's no going to be pizza here Pizza what's what's a joke I would deny it over that now I guess the board's really curious why didn't bring samples yeah that would have been better than a menu you had a question my question was just the name of the restaurant oh okay okay any other questions from the board I got one thing uh just to put on record we were talking in site plan about deliveries uh where deliveries will be you guys aren't getting big box trucks you didn't cover that correct no okay no no we go by the Restaurant Depot okay just a little truck yeah we want to keep everything fresh we don't have enough space for yeah yeah I understood and and when we say deliveries we don't we're not talking about uh door Dash remember where we brought that plan so again just to put that on record here no yeah yeah but we do the same thing at the other restaurant because we exactly it's just a formality make sure that okay any other questions any questions hearing nothing I entertain a motion so M want to open to the public oh oh yeah this time I'm going to open up this hearing up to the public right does anybody in the public have any input into this applic as we're hearing it seeing none on entertain a motion to close the public portion made second all those in favor I opposed okay now entertain a motion I'll make the motion with if Steve would just read in the uh the only condition well the conditions are compliance with uh any recommendations or requests in our board Engineers review letter that included the items that were waved partially or waved tempor temporarily for completeness uh that our engineer discussed at the beginning of the meeting and uh as well as ultimately compliance with our uh submission of a partial site plan that again reflects the the sort of the outstanding items and and request and comments from our board engineer the actual relief to be granted subject to that condition would be a uh change of use and site plan waiver approval board knows if there's a if there's a new use change of use um it may be appropriate to wave site plan a formal site plan submission due to a lack of exterior changes or improvements if it's primarily an interior change a change of use only then uh the board has historically granted s plan waivers so if the board feels that's appropriate here the partial s plan waiver subject to the conditions stated then we would be in good shape to proceed to a motion could I just add the 60 days that if that's acceptable to the board that the applicant submit the site plan the completed site plan within 60 days and today 60 days from today yes okay and also that the TCO would be conditioned on compliance with the review letter and the items and testimony so they can't get their C it out right I agree with and I will second what these two gentlemen that was quite a motion yes longest motion ever question yeah so I have two questions one simple one little hard so the one is um about the height of the of the enclosure the screening so if the typical U three and four yard dumpsters are 4 foot and 4 foot s how high should we go with the F six six feet six foot okay and then the other one has has to do with the handicap space now we're thinking we have an inside corner all the way up um to designate that as the handicap space now how we we have a you know pre-existing kind of handicap kind of thing but uh we want to be within the guideline of this handicap but Federal kind of has the space being oversized plus 8ot area yeah so is is that Absol that's for a van van accessible space is that absolutely necessary uh yes it would have to be you need to rcri you need to restrip that area exactly yeah and that's and that's what I say if I have to give that up in order to comply that's what we'll do okay you know I just wanted to see because that you know we start breaking on a diagonal and you know I'm always kind of thinking spatial arrangements and stuff like that not so much to cheat a little but just to you know include include right include the parking space drawing into your partial partial site plan that way engineer will have an opportunity to review for the circulation yeah I I I had a conversation with uh Dan Patterson surveying uh today he's in uh Medford and uh Dan agreed to you know jump on board and and you know start working with me um and that was the question and Danny was even saying the same thing yo you're going to have to do the van plus the space so you know what will be will be you know and and and that's it so I it was just those those two uh areas were a little gray so other than that I think it's a home run you know our works pretty straightforward from here sounds like a plan yep roll call MAT re yes Daniel McDonald's yes Steve Smith approved John beardon yes Emily Wes yes Maran Constantine yes Justin Bennett yes chadman yes good luck with your business you we're looking forward to some Mexican food you looking forward to some Mex tacos M straight tacos you like the name huh good keep keep it simple keep it another thank you very much guys good night guys [Applause] done next item on the agenda 20 East Main Street block 9.01 Lots 8 youngho chin application number PB 2308 existing you storefront real estate office and one two bedroom apartment above propos use storefront retail on first floor and three two bedroom apartments and office on second floor the application site plan approval to Grant parking and building addition welcome back everybody start my neighbor be yes isn't this an individual this is an individual yeah we're okay because there's no entity theard they do listy list okay before we start who's going to be testifying we'll have them sworn in I will yeah everybody up okay do you swear orir the teston you get tonight be the truth old truth nothing but the truth your names and addresses please same street XU the last name 9913 Pike Rings Road Phoenixville PA 19460 hi yeah it's a y y c 20 East M Street like owner yeah I'm Robert Bruce I'm a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey my office is in summers point in Atlanta County how long have youve been an engineer well let's give it so we can since 82 889 I started doing land use Municipal engineer planning board engineer and Zoning Board engineer for the town of Lin as I say land use primarily in Atlantic and C May counties but I credentials you're on on okay we sit or stand sit yes good evening again as you recall we were here a while back and uh were reviewing some administrative items and things and decided it was best to meet with Mr Sony and now Fred Mr TK and um coordinate the project from our last conversation I I would maybe like to pass out now bet I only have 10 I'm sorry while we're passing this out as far as completeness this was deemed complete by CM last year so for completeness we're we're in good shape and we've been working again with the applicant to get them here and get all the questions answered we they present to what I think we're going to do we we've heard you know so much of this recent Parts going have you go through what you've updated with okay with everything and then we'll see a better picture does that make sense absolutely okay so again Mr Bruce you and I will go back and forth we'll just go through this I don't know it as well as you know it um but just going through some of the general comments these are things that just have to do on the record um our Township ordinance uh permits 70% of the lot will be occupied by a building car currently it's 77% they're asking for 100% so the variance would be required from 70 up to 100% And you if I can interrupt you right there they would not be the only building along there that's at 100% no they're not and that's why Mr Bruce maybe could clear it up for us maybe what the area looks like and why they need to request the 100% part of their improvements and there parking in the back still could you just go through that slightly forc with an overhang and so forth so we could understand that what uh with respect to parking uh as you see on the area we also have the municipal lot behind us we're able to provide three parking spaces excuse me under the proposed second floor we have two spaces for the residential and we would have one extra space place for the building or Ada correct Ada for Ada your ordinance would require six spaces for the residential and it would require 18 spaces excuse me okay so we need a coverage variance Sor need a parking variance we were talking about the parking we need a parking variance yes as far as the coverage though they went they're going from 79 76 100 and explain why they're doing that and where's the expansion the as the gentleman mentioned and as you look at the area you'll see that the the buildings along our Frontage typically run from Main Street to the alley in the rear in that general direction uh a few of them if not many of them go from the front to the rear in other words they cover the entire lot so we're not uh creating uh breaking new ground here with so you're suggesting you're suggesting that that is in compliance with the general development of the areel of the area yes and I should point out I think fontanas comes all the way back Chinese restaurant comes all the way back you can see right here in the picture yeah there's a number of them that okay we we are uh as Fred mentioned 100% covered with the lot at the present time and the down spouts on the building then will allow for the storm water management practice or pattern to continue in that we slope from Main Street back back to the alley and the additional coverage then we can take with storm drains and keep that drainage pattern the next variance they would need would be a rear yard setback kind of in tune with the first variance which is the coverage our ordinance requires a 20ft setback from the re year uh they're proposing zero because they'll be built out to the the property line so that would be our third variance um Solid Waste and Recycling that's one I would like to go through with you if I could Mr Bruce currently it's it's sort of up against the building now there's an overhang that goes back for the second floor to the zero foot property line so the waste and the recycling is going to be stored somewhere and it appears to be 2 separate areas how is how is that working for the office versus the three residential units they're proposing three residential units where there's currently one this is if you're looking from the post office over this is where that little missing tooth is located um that they're filling in the front to almost level out Main Street that would be the second apartment the third apartment is in the rear is that correct Mr Bruce it's in the rear okay so if you could just explain to us about the trash and the recycling and is it picked up privately and I'm not familiar familiar enough with what the practice is in the back of there but I just want you to maybe explain to us how the waste do you own the property next door yeah okay so maybe you would know more about the waste or right I can great Mr Brusco right ahead well I I consulted with Mr Chen okay the there are two areas proposed for uh storage or recycling Etc there is one enclosure that is up behind the what is now the existing garage trash I don't know if everyone can see towards underneath the building and that trash enclosure is for the residential trash residential trash come from the three apartments above and residential trash like Mr Jen's next door has apartment upstairs the city comes and picks up residential trash the trash for the uh commercial use would be over on under the building but on the other side of the building and Mr Chen has a private hauler that he uses for U commercial uh Recycling and and trash pickup so the residents would use a Township pickup trash and the commercial would use your town I'm sorry May the township picks up residential right and Mr Chen has a private Haller right okay that he calls on notice it's not a daily schedule it's not every Monday every Tuesday but it says the trash is generated he has a private huler we do have a letter from the fire chief and uh we will I will consult with him make sure that we all the interior requirements is that regarding trash being underneath construction materials did the fire chief okay that Mason re now I'm sorry did the fire chief say that's acceptable well he will I hope he's going to place conditions on it for a certain type ofal I said he had looked at it he hasn't looked at it no I I did that he had kindly provided an ordinance that dictates what will happen I just did receive it but I will contact him and we will comply with everything okay that he would like that's great U the next item I have was regarding lighting it was item four in my letter Mr Bruce yeah uh proposed lighting is a a flood light style our go I'm sorry no more no more okay you changed that yes well we will present to you LED lighting want down lighting prevent the the off yes we provide the proper lumens and Etc foot candles but we'll do it with LEDs instead of in Condes okay all right wonderful uh five was again regarding the waste and recycling again the concern there was the Fire official it's good to hear that the Fire official is on board and they're going to work through the construction official and you'll comply with everything that's necessary um you were proposing some steel Ballard and everyone knows what the steel Ballard they paint them yellow and there's a piece of concrete on the top where asking that they just given where it is in our downtown district that they use sleeves over top of similar to what wawah uses or other Industries something a little more decorative rush them up a little bit and you agree to uh we're happy to do that okay great where were they going though they're in the in the back in the back y back that's protecting the trash enclosers correct it's tra and protecting the buildings and the build from the Cars just something a little like the building okay I don't garage here oh okay I see where you're at to protect the columns at and the corners y yeah all so there's a bunch of them great we don't want the second floor on there no that would think the parking I know Mr Bruce did hit upon the parking we did mention and they've mentioned there's three residential apartments that will be proposed as one exists currently the the rub is where you heard that there would be 18 parking spaces for the commercial the commercial that there is there and currently is being expanded and it's going to the second floor there's a stairwell that goes up so one half will be the third apartment and the other half or portion of the project will be more commercial space so I just wanted to hear some testimony what will that be used for because during the day at night I drove through here in the morning there are very few cars so I'm not worried about the residential there are 18 spaces required for the commercial I don't know the real number but currently there's probably half of those required so that is another it's a big number it's nine numbers nine parking stalls back there so what type of business are you proposing and the intensity of the use and the parking demand if there's something a little more you could share with us with what that business and why your business needs to expand is it for storage or is there offices going on upstairs and I believe it was 900 ft is that is that correct upstairs yeah 00 00 so essentially 30 by 30 it's a big open space so if you could just tell us a little more about second floor the second floor yes there's a stair yes and it's going to be used for the commercial that's my understand 926 926 yes the 926 I I from what I understand the use of the of the commercial first floor will be a showroom type area for building materials such as tile and cabinets and contractor items the intent of the office upstairs is to be exactly that the office for the downstairs because the downstairs is really being used as a showroom okay so the office would be on the and the office is upstairs the office it'll be an office upstairs not a sales reverting like so so the office upstairs will not be open to the public it'll just be office just being off yeah yes it's part of the uh the business on the first floor and the operator of the showroom would use the upstairs for uh their use okay so retail clients are not going upstairs that's what my okay so again the parking demand are nine spaces or the parking that's out there if your business is next door you know what the parking demand is is there sufficient parking there for you to run this business we we it's not paring there is like a we sometime like if like a BC time maybe sometime party they have like a like a parking is like a only parking it's out of time another parking is not maybe only half like 150% okay and I know the parking along the building or the driveway is 2hour parking yeah is that correct so uh that obviously would be there for the businesses the backk turn we did a parking study also okay that yes but the parking study addressed the residential and I think the conclusion of the parking study was that there was sufficient parking between what we're providing and what is available in the lot to the residential it did not necessarily speak to the commercial but I think Mr Jen indicates that the lot is not well the two our parking would make it being turn over so so the change of view again it's going to be a showroom of some sort yeah I think that's important to put on the record Steve is that we do that okay um so that's that's the use you're proposing access would be off of Main Street the main entrance main entrance okay would you be able to get into the showroom from the back uh easily if I don't never been there before I get in the a not recommend we have a back yeah yeah it's it's a sh um I can say yeah it should stay up from the middle of the building and come up and then go down right next to it uh is right the back door going to so most of your clientele are going to use the the front door or the back door and the back door right yeah right yeah front door and B door yeah so you're thinking most of them are going to use the front is what you're saying yeah depends on I guess where they Park and yeah that's what I'm because there's not a lot of parking up on Main Street either yeah okay the final two items are pretty simple this number 11 just identifies that there could be a an obligation uh again I guess that's up Steve that's up to the tax assessor the fair share housing obligation oh yes yes um yeah there'll be a determination and they'll have to comply with whatever is required okay thank you and the final one was just some clarity on the site plan yes and you've agreed to do that so Mr chairman that's really all I have the biggest thing was to identify three Apartments where there's one we have a commercial expansion on the second floor 92 the office space the office space yes and then we have the variances that we identified which was for the lot coverage 70 70 to 100 the rear yard setback and the parking the car I had a question on parking from the beginning you say we're going to cover 100% of the property where are they going to park these cars they're going on the first floor under the first floor floor P that up see the first floor there's there's the bottom there's actually okay so they're covering 100% up here but there's going to be vacant parking down below okay and then as with every application signage you'll comply with the township ordinance for signage well we would respectfully request some relief from your ordinance requirement uh in that I I believe your ordinance requirement for the primary entrance which is Main Street is we can have four permanent signs at 34 square feet I believe something like that uh we were proposing uh two signs about 20 ft in length or about 100 square feet across the front fa I don't know that I do I have the details do I they on the architectural I hope I I did not review the architectural plans for the signage I think the question is are the two signs they're proposing going to add up to the four signs if they're allowed sounds like they do you know what the total square footage of the is proposed on the front it is about6 see the signs above Prett what is do you know what the permitted square footage of signage is for Main Street furn right on the Main Street based on the front age of the commercial space 10% of that is permitted 10% so if we if you have a 10 ft by what is the width of the property uh 40 ft 40 ft so 10% of 400 is 40 sare ft sign is permitted okay so whereas you're proposing 10 and yes how much 106 so it's two and a half times what is the height what is the height of the sign two and a half two and so yeah so 2 and a half by 40 is 100 that's not permitted in that scenario I'm sorry is it you have to come back again to the board do you have a picture of the sign what are you proposing what would it say what with the mayor mentioned what is the name of the business and right so so basically are both signs going to read the same or what's yeah it's it's for the same business so so I'll ask the stupid question then a silly question why can't we just do one in the middle instead of two here and not not being three times where you're supposed to be you are allowed only 10% of the frontage of the commercial space so if your property is 40 ft wide yeah and 10 ft High the commerci space is 10 ft high so you have a 400 square ft out of 400 square ft 10% of that is 40 ft is allowed instead of 40 you are proposing 100 square ft so you need a signage variance from the zoning board so better you reduce the size of the signage to 40 square ft that way you will comply the town ordinances and you can separately outside this board or any other board you can directly file zoning permit application for this 40t sign size I I think we should revise the application for the 40 foot sign if you want to come back someday you can maybe increase that size okay so we will comply with the the sign now now the question Mr Bruce is in the rear uh Dan was so kind as to pull the the plan out and it's the same thing a double sign across the back P what is permitted on the parking lot side of the building the rear of the building uh that I have to check what is the sign allowed at the towards the parking signage are only allowed at the front of the street and in this case they have a Ali Street and I have to go through it and I have to check what is permitted on the downtown business but they're allowed to sign on the back of the building aren't they yeah they I believe the CMA CME report they said it was allowed 12 square ft then you're looking propos 104 but that's the existing report from the previous engineer so that's a major difference there so I would say they comply with they permit it like to come back yes that's fine yeah we confirm so you will file the separate zoning permit application and you will comply the town ordinance for the signage okay well they wouldn't have to go in front of zoning unless they're going outside if they propos the per sign they Z right so if they meet the whatever I'll say 12T 40t whatever number they don't need zoning the signs that you are proposing are they internally lit how are they they're internally lit they're like a box with an internal lit okay they don't project more than a foot okay and what is the name of the business we don't know yet mainstream materials mainstream materials I everybody's a comedian I love just kidding that's good that was good that was quick on your feet I like that so again I I did not go through the signage Matt thank you so much they're going to agree with the signs with the try to get a relief that's that's your if they want to come back Mr chairman I you said they just they can come back corre maybe the name will be a little longer that's right okay before the board gets on why don't we open up to the public and see what we got coming okay this time I'm going to open up to the public does anybody in the public have any input into this application as we're hearing it actually would you guys mind taking a step back and let let these people microphone y so I'm Ellen mcdell this is Gary mcdell you know sir RLC owns the property next door in 18 East Main they're the same thing multiple sets sir yes okay we do please ra raise your right hand yes s refer testimony you'll give tonight truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do uh your name and address please Gary McDow 2869 Colonial Avenue SOA New Jersey thank you Council your name and address for the record Ellen mcdell um 46 West Main Street maple state New Jersey thank you um so we do have some concerns the uh the coverage of the entire lot is an issue um I of course understand that there are buildings along there that do have 100% um coverage but we're talking about this building and we're talking about um buildings that have been there for for years and years and years and and um I think that we should enforce the zoning ordinances and and seek to have compliance I haven't heard anything special about this property which would make it important for uh their their need to be 100% coverage um it sounds to me as if the purpose of it is to add a third apartment which um of course will be more profitable but it doesn't mean that um there's anything special about this property that would require uh the use of the entire lot and we've articulated this before um when this application came U before this board um the zoning laws talk about light air circulation air flow if you have buildings that um take up the whole lot you eliminate that you don't have light you don't have air flow you you just have a building taking the whole um the whole property um these three ordinances I don't think if if if they only had two apartments we wouldn't we wouldn't need to have 100% coverage we wouldn't need to have uh necessarily the rear yard setback um I think this is just a matter of trying to maximize the the economic value of this property to the detriment of the the neighborhood and the surroundings and I don't I don't think it's a good um a good proposal for our time Gary what would you like to say so I passed those pictures out and what I'm trying to show you is the windows of our property that are now going to be blocked by this 100% coverage of the new building and so that little uh fluorescent marker is where their new building is going to stop and it's right at you know at the edge of where our stairs come down um those people are going to have a heck of a time in a fire getting out of the building um if Mr Chin's building catches fire because they're not going to get out there's a essentially a walkway that's 3 feet wide and they're never going to get out the the rear apartment the one in the front happens to have a a staircase to go down the front way but the question is are they going to be peace of mind to you know their bedroom is in the back they're going to want to go as quickly as possible away from a fire um and I really think what this does is make a a fire trap for our Apartments we can't we can't rent our apartments anymore because who could live there who would live there you won't have any light you won't have any air you won't have any safety and that's why I took those pictures to try to show you the conditions that um it becomes when you butt a building right up next to another building and you know we're not all those buildings are right up against each other not every one of them on down the line it's been that way since I was my contention about this has always been and I'm not you know when you walk down our Main Street one building does not fit in in that group and it's this one so put it because it doesn't have the second floor on it which they're going to do now that's great put it on the front but well you know I'm not going to tell them how to do we will tell them what we can approve but I'm saying to say that the one the one thing that stands out is that building right everybody else has the same problems that you're pointing out they're right up against each other right so forth and so on right is this construction making things any different that exist further on down the line I don't think you can view it like that because why can't I because because I don't own the place next door you have the obligation and my humble opinion and your your attorney will tell you this to enforce the zoning laws as they are now we don't I don't there's been no testimony about when those buildings were built and what the zoning laws were then you you have a job to do which is to make sure that the zoning laws the Town Council enacted whenever they enacted them are fulfilled unless there is a really serious reason to exactly right haven't heard one reason to De that's the case I mean if he's if he's asking for a variance and you know the board member's opinion is that it'll be a visual you know a visual Improvement to to the street and and the uniformity will overall improve the you know stretch of buildings in terms of Aesthetics certainly that's a fair consideration that's the point I'm trying to make well that's what the board that's what the board decid our decision that's our decision certainly you can look at because you live next and it's affecting your property I appreciate that I have a couple question yeah okay two questions and it's not critical how long have you won 18 roughly 10 12 years I don't um and by looking at the picture doesn't 18 take 100% of the footprint I don't know maybe probably I don't know I haven't measured it it looks really close if it doesn't if you count the steps I think it does so but again what happened 75 years ago is not your concern your concern is enforcing the laws as they are now not not as they were 75 even if there were laws I don't know when these building probably probably not but but there's they're there for a reason and that's why that's why they're here to get the variances to be able to do what they want to do to make it look the same on Main Street and in the front I totally understand well the back is just as important as the front is this I'm sorry this six six photos that there are just multiple copies of six photos yeah yeah everyone has the same six we'll we'll mark them into the record as as at least one copy one set of six okay as A1 through six got it or uh public 1 through six so P1 through six you've heard us okay that's all that's all we can ask thank you thank you think the roof is problem yeah well I mean I understand what their issue is because anybody else in the public have any input into this application a tunel okay what's the difference between seeing none a motion to close the public portion the staircase all those in favor all those in favor I oppos second okay right so at that point okay hearing what you just heard do you think that there's any lack of a better word any issues like you're putting a building up against another one like the chairman said is common practice along that street correct Ian the rear properties as they exist today there are numerous buildings that come back um obviously there's an open area here where the neighbor enjoyed the open space uh and has built the apartment that way um what I did also hear is there was some concern about fire access and the access to that apartment would not change rather than being air if they wanted to jump over the railing I guess there would be a building there um we should hear about what the construction material is that you're going to build the building with um that's the photo that I don't know what photo this is Steve but um it is the photo of the stairwell down the side of the building if it stairwell is 3 feet wide it's 3 feet wide and building some other structure next to it do not going to alter that 3et wide is 3 feet wide right it's uh so that is just just a fact I'm pointing out then there was a question about where the mar the fluorescent marker was and I'm not sure I understand what where that stairwell is I think that would be the end of the property line right krie yes is that the end of that stairwell or it was my understanding so that's just the end of the property line okay but the stairwell with the steel gate I'm not sure what that is is that the end of the stairwell I believe so I believe that's access that goes up up to the stairs so it comes straight out the back yeah oh so to me I'm just going to speak to the question we heard about fire right um it looks like there would be the same path that there always was um as far there or not then the exit is going to change right as far as the materials I think we should know if it's going to be made of cardboard or if it's going to be made of masonry or aluminum siding vinyl siding it's a it's a building code requirement to have the all exterior walls fireproof so Bas on the con when they file the application with the Construction Construction office officer will verify the exterior walls whether it is a fire that's typical with zero setback properties which we have all over main one time I asked to the additive son about the same question if the two buildings built adjoining to each other then he said all the walls construction Department make sure all the walls are fire rated so the fire within the building will not spray to the next adjoining building that's what their current code so so what was pointed out just the building inspector should be taken care of that correct right yeah that's the board it's construction item and I don't know if the board has to get into the construction of that's what we have the building department for so so the one thing that was pointed out is that um the applicants or the objector attorney had pointed that we have a code and it says 70% we have a code that says 20 feet um what makes this I guess the question that we as a board need to ask is what makes this property so special that the board should consider granting the variances that you've requested what is it about the property that is special um and do you see a detriment to the neighbor or to your property and what are the benefits to Maple Shade the parking lot the front as well as any other benefits that you can raise uh but the biggest one is what makes the property special that we would look at and and consider this um obviously you can see the back is quite an iour I so I think you know maybe the applicant could just give us a little bit on that I don't know how you yeah I mean if theant I'll just I just want to add Mr chairman for the board I mean the applicant is here for C variances they can they can get a C1 hardship variance or or a C2 substantial benefit variance the C1 variance is the hardship it's where they show that there's unique or special characteristics about their property that would justify the board granting the variance relief so if there are existing improvements or conditions or if the property is uniquely unusually shaped uh that all these existing factors if they made it impossible or or unduly burdensome for the applicant to comply with our code the board could consider granting the relief as a C1 variance there you know but all all allow the applicant to proceed with their testimony um but then of course the board can also consider uh C2 variants the board knows that standard when an application advances one or more goals or purposes objectives of the municipal land use law such as promotion of the general welfare or uh making uh making good use of of available efficient use of available open space light air that's certainly and a goal of the ML and the board could consider whether that's whether that objective is is being furthered here or in some ways impaired that's up for the board's judgment and then then also with the with the C2 variance in particular the board is looking at the positive criteria which again is that whether or not there's a advancement of the ml Well's goals and objectives with Township master plan objectives and the negative criteria whether there's a substantial negative impact public detriment which is typically concerned with whether there's a substantial negative impact on the neighbors and also whether there's a substantial impairment to what our zoning code requires and and what our master plan uh favors and requires and then of course the board has to weigh whether the positives of the Ben of positives of the application if any outweigh the negative and and decide accordingly so that's that's the process the board is very well familiar um so I I think that the applicant probably does want to maybe add a little potentially if they have additional testimony to to add to the record a little bit and the board can weigh that testimony and and and arrive at the conclusion whether or not the variances are Justified I would offer that again terms of the visual environment from the rear that we certainly are enhancing the visual environment from the rear I would offer also offer that Mr Chen is going to receive the maximum economic benefit from his building if he is consistent with the other buildings in the area he's going to I know you can't argue it's a ratable and we're increasing the ratables for you but he is achieving his max maximum Economic Development and the city will benefit from that as well I I have to point out that again I think the front will look much better once this construction is done right and I think the back can't look any worse than it looks right now you're right it can't look any worse than it looks right now um maybe we shouldn't say can't hard to believe right I do see major improvements helping that that situation I really do um The Alley has suffered over the years there's no doubt about it but it has improved in many sections going going along there and and I I personally feel that this would be a benefit from this and it would finish the front off and make the Main Street on that side of the street complete yeah and may I point out a few uh in terms of safety as Architects Public Safety and erress and you know five prevention are priorities the the entire building is going to be sprinkled and as far as our we know uh if the uh springler systems are functioning properly there's no uh no one no casualty so far as we know of and then the uh the the floors are well circulated there's a entrance in the in the front and there's exit in the back front and back the back has a 5T wide stair going leading to the upstairs and they can leave from the front of from the back so and that's how all those other build are set up right on down the line there's you know the front and the back some of them don't have back on that I I don't think the one on the corner does the St is it is there currently a sprinkler in the building no no so that would be an added right an addition so when it's done it's required to have sprinkler system when you have three Apartments more so the entire first and second floor will be sprinkled okay now the building material for the second floor and the front or first floor is it going to be consistent with the other buildings on Main Street or is it going to be different you tell us could you just tell us what the front of the building will look like is that going to be brick as shown okay and the rear of the building what will the materials be I see some brick on the architecturals and what is the other material panel metal panels on the at the back and on the sides say A brick is it brick or cinder block that's existing yeah but the back the back will be cinder block not brick CU it's right now it's showing it's right now but we we going to put and and panels no C block so I had one question um on the mcdow's building there seems to be a fire escape is there going to be any uh anything blocking the fire escape it looks like there's a ladder here I believe it to be it might be roof access yeah that's roof access but it could be for fire but it's roof access okay but anything like that should still be in there on the other properties airspace you know what I mean here this the owning that comes out yeah I got it obviously we could call that stairwell stays okay Escape if that is a fire escape we're not sure if that's roof roof access or okay consider a secondary escap this is the B is St second floor is right here oh okay all right he's going to make a statement yeah okay okay yeah sorry our lot is twice as wide as the other Lots s lot on on the lock instead of 20t we have 40 ft and the second floor some have two apartments right yeah with 20 ft lot but we have 40 ft three Apartments so that make it one less right understood so yes yes can I can I ask a question of of Ellen or Gary I just want to make sure we're seeing this right the picture that Gary took Ellen it shows an access is that just roof access it looks like a metal ladder I believe it's just roof that show that's not any type of fire correct right your tenants don't have access to your roof right yeah yeah yeah so that's what I'm talking about that that is just for roof access correct that's not access for the hbac unit right okay I just want to make sure that wasn't like the tenants couldn't get there okay that's fine you have have a key to get in so that that answers our question we just want to make sure it wasn't blocking it kind of fire kids oh I can believe that so we locked that thank you I'm sorry I just wanted to make sure I would see it that that's fine one more thing to point out that we're looking at on the side of your building closest to the neighbor yeah you at the bottom of this rendering there's a stairwell so your building is not touching the other building there's still an open air space how wide is that that stairwell which if you're looking at the rear of the building as Dan pointed out the stairwell is right here that's 5 ft wide so there is a space at least between the existing brick building for the half of the building is that correct except the the office that comes over okay the the the stay area more than the the stay area actually it's about is there a way you could maintain that 5 foot or no we we are not required to uh set back on the side no understand no but currently you have a 5 foot set back on the side right stairwell is the stairwell yeah 5 ft okay so I just wanted to point that out there is open air right the width of this area on the side where a stairwell goes up okay uh and then it goes to an under there's an under area that where you drive Okay so from the re here is your similarly he has a half of the building open next to us next to your uh this next to this you will have you will see the on the record parall to this par to this are you guys done you want to do you have something else you'd like to yeah okay can I can I get you guys to sneak back in you sure okay all right that's fine yeah I don't know if you want to take a look at that I just had a question um there was a there's discussion about enhancing the visual environment in the back of the building I have my question is how long have you owned this building 2015 2015 for nine years and it looks like that so you know to the extent that he's coming here and saying look it's going to be much better it's going to be terrific since 2015 look like that so you know I don't think that's we will have plans that they're going to have to adhere to with this we will have plans that they're going to have to adhere to understand why you're saying making your point understand your point make it much better when owned for years and has not made it better well we still want it made better over the stairwell goes in behind it hey guys I'm sorry they pretty much admitted that the point of this is to get the maximum economic benefit from the that's why they're doing this that is not a valid reason to Grant a variance under the municip and how how long have you on youring I apologize you answered that I think I said 10 years I approxim I don't I don't think that was his point was the it was the it was beneficial his point was it was beneficial to the town because of the tax increase increases not not because of his financial said you can't take into account ratables that's not a permitted in either case it's it's not one of the uh criteria under the land use law that the book would weigh I I will strike it from my memory it's good to have but we do welcome the added money too many attorneys in this room yeah there is a lot on um I mean I'm just looking here like no offense buddy I agree I agree I just don't okay all right um I don't know what the next step is it's your board the next step is if there's no more questions from the board we're going to have to consider a a recommendation can I ask one question please yeah um for you guys back up so so we're going to have upstairs we're going to have three Apartments do we consider just having two what the uh right now like I said the the the width of the property is 40 ft I understand that yeah and and two or three we have the space and then if we make it two uh then we are not required to have sprinklers but we want to make you know to the next level to have the entire building sprinkler so so if you have just two apartments it's not required to be sprinkler yeah is that that's correct possible okay my my question to follow up with with what you mentioned Maryann is they could maybe make the office a little smaller up second floor and slided away from the neighbor's property just as you saw where the stairwell was it's 5T away M that area overhangs it's just another option or alternative you may want to because you would mention three maybe the office rather than the apartment getting smaller the office becomes smaller it's we we've heard from people how they operate he said it was the office was 900 square ft yeah can that be smaller we cannot do it small because they have people land there they put another trust to the m like a down people can go in they stay there people go in there go to the m out store move there the other day they know having white guys white guys go my store climb over the wolf and jump over to chance property the the wolf yeah who's who's doing this jumping the the tenants from the neighbor yeah they go like a stare there like a neighbor St there they go out his there they go M so it's not necessarily their tenants it's just people yeah you can't blame it on their tenants unless I'm sorry sorry sorry oh we've seen them up every around the we saw your ears start to light up we saw your ears lighting upen as soon as she sets I know exactly where she's they see going up and we if I sp there like there sometime they put another trust to and then go together right no I understand the problem I understand it we cannot even sp there make another trust thing I was just trying to see if it if it didn't have to go all the way 100% if there was a way we could get some space I think at that point too I mean one of the is one of the things about you know is the looks the Aesthetics and making it consistent with the other buildings yeah cuz the front I understand the front makes perfect sense yeah you'll wind up with a gap and I mean and really like and I'm sorry just want to uh verify what the we are not required to have setb on the uh side right that's correct yeah it's it's a for from the zoning we we learned it's zero setback for commercial use correct that's fine no I understand that we agree thank any other concerns I have one question um I didn't see agac on this drawing are you going to remove the air conditioners that are sticking out of the back put like a central air it would be replaced located on the roof or something again consistent with okay yeah it would be central air conditioning yes sir okay all all three Apartments would have central air including the commercial space so we're not going to see window units hanging out on street or in the back so when it's done it's going to be up to date all the utilities would be most current okay yeah Mickey all right so you have no other concerns no any other questions from the board no I'd like to make a motion okay like to pass yeah I'd like to make a motion to uh Grant the conditional waivers as were spelled out an approval motion with all the local conditions mentioned right yes so so this would be our uh this would be a preliminary final site plan approval and it would include the uh any items identified any exceptions from our site plan ordinance or from our submission checklist requirements waivers that were identified by our engineer by our board professional and in the review letter and stated on the record again the application was deemed complete I I guess it was previously but um you know the motion at the end of the day will include those waivers previously granted and then of course the you know the major elements of the relief are are the variances there are two variances that that are um that there are two two new two new variances I should say so there's there's several non-conforming conditions of the property these are all Spilled Out in cme's review letter but it's the minimum lot area there's no change to the minimum lot area but it's still uh non-conforming at this time 3600 Square ft existing 5,000 required also the front yard setback 20t required Zer existing no change there uh the sidey yard setback as was just testified to is compliant zero uh you know zero feet required zero feet existing uh the building coverage is a new uh non-conform new non-conformity resulting from the application so that needs a new variance the building coverage is currently 70% excuse me the current building building coverage is Approximately 80% um and and the required or the maximum 70% the applicant is proposing 100% so that is a again a new variance that's required and then there is no change to the existing impervious coverage which which is 100% whereas 85% is the max as well as the building height which appears to be uh compliant so is it just the one new variance rear yard and rear yard oh and the rear yard setback uh re set back 20 20 ft is required five about 5et 11 Ines existing and proposed is is zero feet so the rear yard setback as well as the building coverage variances uh the major SL plan preliminary and Final approval and uh any waivers subject to the board's standard conditions of approval um any outstanding items or recommendations comments in our engineering review letters any securing any Outside Agency approvals that may be required and um and and and all of again all of our standard code code conditions parking VAR there's also a park with the handicap right the parking variants that we listed that PR follow up earlier at the very beginning there's testimony that right they are providing three where 26 are required six for residential and the remaining 18 would be 18 or 20 would be for the commercial so there's three variances in right coverage rear setback and parking right right if that's Justin's um motion I would second that we got there second you say all that you made motion I'm not paid to be here sir that's why roll call Matthew re yes Daniel McDonald yes Steve Smith approved John Bean approved Emily Wes yes Maran Constantine yes Justin Panet yes chairman Duan yes well it's been a long time but you through yes yes wish you luck with your construction than when it's done we'll be jealous of the neighbor I commend your perseverance like got to give you credit you certainly hung in there I commend your commend your persever how many times have you been in front of us at least four times four times that's that's four time like seven years before like a three or four times maybe they started in 2017 when you start 17 17 is a eight years one more eight years no I mean when you going to start the the work yeah yeah as soon as 30 days starting now 30 yeah we need start soon good luck with everything don't good luck with your project okay thank you thank you thank you so much thank very much good Lu thank you thank you thank you take care guys next item on the agenda under old business 20 East Main Street block 9.01 lot8 oh no that's not the solicitors visit that again solicitors resolution resolution number 224 pb6 resolution granting minor minor site plan and bulk variance approval to install electric vehicle charging posts and equipments to change smart EF LC block 189 .01 lot 1.01 the application is number PB 2402 motion to approve that resolution second roll call please for deep M yes Daniel mdon yes Steve Smith approved John beon approve Emily Wes yes Maran Constantine yes Justin bannett yes chairman Dugan yes anything we need to discuss for the board hearing none I'll entertain a a motion to approve the minut of our May 22nd 2024 meeting did you want to oh I'm sorry did I did I miss you right yeah okay motion to approve the minutes so made second all those in favor I opposed I'll go back to discussions in case I skipped you no we're good we good okay motion to turn so made second all those in favor iOS I'm looking at the clock I'm like yeah I'm not opening sense it's always next month oh yeah good me