##VIDEO ID:kPTDX3IQj7E## um where we left off last session at session 10 um I was not present but um I'm still fully up to speed on everything like I like to do at usual sessions I know we have some some visitors in the room who may not have been at past sessions I always think it's a good idea for all of us to identify who we are introduce ourselves I know we know each other but not everybody does so I'll begin proba use the assistant on on video my name is Terry Harmon negotiator for Martin County School Board and I'm an attorney with the firm of snipp and and Spellman in Tallahasse Florida and I guess we'll start at the end with Don uh callone let him start and then finish off our table thanks Terry Don Calderone director of risk management and employee benefits Lisa Estes assistant superintendent student Support Services Kathy pendo director of student services good evening Jeff Raymond uh director of talent acquisition and HR operations good evening Julie cessa assistant superintendent of Human Resources Sherry Richardson director of Professional Standards and employee relations yeah Arian Denine uh mcea Kimberly Love mcea Lonnie B MCA Matt Thal president MCA Gary Simmons Chief negotiator for mcea from FBA Alec McIntyre mcea pad Holtz mcea Susan REO mcea I think that's our last last at the end of the table so um got a section on the agenda for introductions um since I'm talking I guess I'll go first but I'm always willing to stand down and let someone else uh if they'd like to but um just kind of a little bit of a preview I think of our agenda is kind of how I'd like to handle um handle the my introduction at least for purposes of today I know this is session 11 but I think aside from presidential leave I think this might be session four five um but overall uh this is I think I'll be our 11th time together um separate from the the presidential leave which was really kind of pre-season um what I said at the original session I think when I we were all together back back in July was that the board and I know our team had a desire this bargaining season to try to not prolong things and to try to move move quicker than we have in the past and I and I know your team um my colleagues on the other side of the table expressed a similar intent um and I think we've done that I mean if I recall last year we were out into April talking about salary Sal issues um and here we sit in September I think we finish salary in August uh which was great and I think we've moved fast and we've moved quick and I think um that's good for everybody um but I do know we've got some things sitting out that um I think we've had now a couple of sessions on and I think we're going to talk about those today um and so I think that's the lead in I try to identify um or what we were trying to do when we put the agenda together was to try to identify the issues where we still had some back and forth going on or some discussion and then to try to have an agenda item to talk about where what are some of the issues that we've discussed during the course of this bargaining season that uh maybe we have haven't talked about at the last meeting or two um just to see if there's any Le any movement on those issues as well um so that's that's kind of our our position as of right now as to kind of where where we are jumping into everything all right so just reviewing um the the agenda I see number three is is the Martin County School District's response to the Western Zone request um our proposals that that we're prepared to have a discussion on today addresses uh the supplements in the western Zone simultaneously so um prior to diving in to um a counter proposal on the western Zone I think that um we should hear the the Western Zone request and do three before before two to make sure that whether two is necessary or whether or not we still need to proceed or adjust um our response in um number two uh okay that's fine we can if you if you'd like to hear our position on Western Le uh Western Zone leave I think um that's probably one of those issues where we're still stuck in the mud with each other I know at the last session um there was a lot of back and forth on this one uh and a lot of discussion on this one and I won't rehash the arguments that we've shared with each each other across the table uh and in other Arenas as it relates to um the Western Zone as an isolated supplement issue um but I think where we are right now as we're at the table and our position has has not changed since the last session which is keeping it at 3100 across the table um and and I know when I say A our position has not changed in keeping it at that I I again I know we're at a disagreement over what that means but um as we sit here now our position has not changed on that okay so we can go into to our um proposal um because the position isn't the position not changing on that is is not a position that we're going to be able to walk away from the from the table on so I have a couple proposals to to give to to you um that we can have a discussion today and you can take it back to the school board and then we can decide how to move forward but um it's mca's position that no later than the next bargaining session we should be able to tell which direction that we're going to going to go because we have a uh an objective to get this done before the holidays meaning um Thanksgiving uh we also know that we have uh the vote for the millage coming up in in November and it's going to look horrible that we're at an impass or we're fighting um going into into um the vote for whether or not we're going to continue with the millage so MC with all intents and purposes uh would like to put everything down on on put everything out on the table today and um let the school board decide which direction that that they want to go so with with that being said we'll discuss option number one of three options is that what you emailed him Gary yes yep I've got it I've got it awesome yep I'm ready whenever is that something that you're going to pass out hard copies to the team yes okay thank you so much now why while they're passing it out I uh you guys don't need the the um proposal for me to make this position the the most disheartening part about the the district's position is that we've combed through new numerous school board meetings and for the school board to take a position that the Western Zone supplement has to be harmonious and across the board we can't find any examples of bargaining unit members who are not grandfathered employees in the western Zone that has taken that position we haven't seen any um any board meetings in which Western Zone members that were hired after June 30th 2014 has come to the board and said and say that this is an inequitable supplement something needs to be done about it but yet the board is taken a position that only cost them $5,500 and they're willing to delay going into completing um our bargaining session over over that premise now we have the ability to discuss survey have conversations with Western Zone employees and we can't find any Western Zone employees that are in favor of that position or has taken a position that everyone has to be paid the same amount so with with that being said are we going to start looking at all of the other supplements that are inequitable in our supplement list are we going to be requiring our high school um courus director to get paid the same as the Middle School corus director or for varsity coaches to be paid the same as JV coach there's so many examples of unharmonious supplements in that supplement list for the school board to single out the Western Zone when not one Western Zone employee has come to the school board and told them that that's an issue on record and we'd be more than happy to do a records request to the exe to the um school board members to find out if any emails came to them to make this such a contentious point that we can't come to a negotiation come to an agreement in negotiations over it we have members of the western Zone here on our bargaining team we have um employees in the western Zone in the audience and if I'm saying something that's incorrect you definitely hear otherwise um at the end of the session so let's take a look at option one so option one what we're proposing is that the board reconsiders their position on mca's counter to article two and that position was to establish a western Zone supplement a grandfathered Western Zone supplement for um the amount ount of $275 for the 20 employees that um were hired prior to June 30th 2014 um over 10 years ago it's been um at a minimum 10 years since since this language was discussed that our 20 folks have been dedicating their career and their um skill set to the community in in the western Zone if the Western Zone employees are truly interested in having a harmonious supplement we can address that issue in a future bargaining year in the same manner that we chose to address the insurance issue um we proposed a permanent fix to the insurance issue over the life of this contract the board wanted an opportunity to to put a bandaid on it and address and address this issue what did MCA do we listened to the board we took into consideration the impact to our bargaining unit members we got the salary done in the first bargaining session got insurance done in the second bargaining session so I'm saying that as an example of we don't get 100% of everything that that we want so if the Western Zone employees aren't making a fuss about a harmonious supplement why is the school board so if they want a harmonious supplement we can get our um our 20 grandfathered employees made whole by providing them with um a 275 dollar grandfather supplement what we're also proposing is that the board make a good faith investment of 1% to all of the supplements excluding the Western Zone and agreed to look at a larger increase to the supplements in a future bargaining year now the cost to create the grandfather supplement is $5,500 the cost to invest 1% to all of the supplements amount to $1 16,652 there is $ 28,33 3 remaining in the raise pool from our salary proposal so the grand total for option number one which would create the grandfather supplement for our 20 grandfathered employees in the western Zone and give a 1% um increase to all of our supplements as a good faith effort from the board to begin addressing these supplement slowly the grand total of that is $2,152 which leaves $5,895 still remaining in the raise pool for um the board to utilize in any way that they see fit um should they agree to to option one now the reason why I'm going through all of this because I want the record to clearly reflect that MCA is not asking the school board to find any more money to address what we're proposing what we're proposing is able to be finan 100% through the amount that the board already air marked for raises so we're not asking for one penny more than what they've already contributed to the raise pool and a matter of fact we haven't we're not even spending 100% of those dollars that's option number one again for the record that creates the grandfather supplement for $275 um it gives it gives a 1% increase to all of the supplements excluding the Western zone now I would like to discuss option number two okay I'm there okay let's get these passed out to everybody here you go need one more and Trish if you would be so kind [Music] and while this is being passed out I just want to um for for clarity Terry to to let you know the way that I'm explaining this is the way that I believe we would be able to um present it to our bargaining unit members in an effort to get um to pass ratification so so that's the reason why I wanted to phrase it in in this manner so that we can be clear that we do have the ratification process and it can't just be 100% what the board is interested in because the board only has one side of this vote you still have 1,00 employees that has the opportunity to to vote this down so do we put our best foot forward and get this deal ratified or do we get rejected and have to come back and waste more more time so option number two addresses the board's desire to have a harmonious um Western Zone supplement so what option number two does is it creates a harmonious Western Zone supplement for the 96 Western Zone employees and increases the current supplement by $275 that increase of $275 is around a 5.5% increase to the current Western Zone supplement of $3,100 so the increase to the Western Zone supplement would we would present this to our members that this increase to the Western Zone supplement will be a good faith investment to begin the process of increasing the remaining supplements in future bargaining years so we we're accepting the position that because of the FTE that the board doesn't want to tackle all of the supplements this year what we're asking the board to do in this proposal is tackle One supplement as a good Faith effort and that's the Western Zone supplement increase everybody to 275 and the cost to increase all of the western Zone employees is $26,400 there's $283.3 remaining in the raise pool from our salary proposal the grand total for option number two is $26,400 and that leaves $1,633 3 in the raise pool again option number two is not asking the board to find or contribute any more dollars this option can be financed through the 20 through through the money that was air marked in the raise pool at the beginning of this bargaining session option number one is still using the same money that we tentatively agreed to option number two is the same is using the same method both of them still Falls within that 28,000 that's remaining in in the raise pool so again for rec C purposes option number two just addresses One supplement this year with the intention to with the intention to address the other supplements in um subsequent years and the cost of this is 26,400 and I think that that the last thing that I want to say on on the record on on option number two is we've decided to to create these options as a pathway to try to get to it to try to get to an agreement we have a October um first deadline to uh for the state and and that's something that I truly had a desire in in meeting when we're talking about the FTE I said it on the record in the last bargaining session that low FTE numbers isn't an issue that's mutually exclusive to Martin County several school districts are dealing with FTE for example the same week that I was um came to the table to address these supplement issues I was working with the FTE situation in okobe County one of the other um districts that um I bargain for at the bargaining table we were able to get to just like um Martin County we were able to get to a salary agreement the first night that salary agreement put their starting salary within $34 of Martin County so Martin County starting salary is 51,3 okobi is 51,000 even they also was able to contribute a 2% increase to all of the supplements and this is little okobe and then the FTE down students in eight out of the 10 schools in okobi eight out of the 10 miraculously we didn't lose any employees um we had to do similar actions that um Jeff and and and his um amazing team over at the district was able to do they we were able to satisfy um that low FTE using the same methods that you guys um use over here but we were still able to say that we have to make a commitment to increasing the the supplements it hasn't been increased over a long time now we're not pushing the issue on the supplements with the school board we understand we came in very high and and I know that um we said that on um previous sessions and I'm willing to say it on on the record we came in really hot and um we're willing to come down to to attempt to get a deal with this particular um with these two two particular items in the contract the the supplements and with specifically the the Western Zone supplement so we're asking um Martin County to to do the same because we all want to create um a decent Educational Foundation in in the treasur coast and I think that what's being asked of Martin County is nothing separate than what has been asked and agreed upon in those challenges met in our neighboring districts and I think that Martin County can do the very same because they've air marked the money to do so from the very beginning that's why I thought that we get to an agreement much faster than this but now we're being told that there's specific ways that we have to spend spend the money so again options number one option number two I'm happy to to um to present to you all falls within that same raise pool and then we can move on to option number three Gary I've got one question on two I think it's better to do it now and then not break you up that you've got 96 Western Zone employees yes I I will have to check that number so um I thought it was higher n the the spreadsheet that I um sent to you it's the file is is named wz1 wz2 so I'm getting these numbers straight off of Carter's spreadsheet that he presented in the last bargaining session I'm not creating any of these numbers it's all from Carter's spreadsheet and his his spreadsheet air marked um 96 employees so that's where I came up with the fund with the um cost out I did CC Carter since he's not here today I did CC him on a communication to you so that he has all of these calculations should you guys need to have a conversation or discuss it with the um board he'll be privy to to these discussions as as well and I think um option number three is just a simple um option if if we can't agree to option number one we can't agree to option number two and both of those options are still within the confines of of the the money air marked in the raise pool from um well not the official session one but the session when we started talking about the contract outside of of um the president's release it it it'll be disheartening to go to to impass over dollars that was already air marked by the board to be spent on teacher salaries and I think that we have um our our um our ears to to to the school to the schools for a lack of a better terminology we have a clear understanding of of what our bargaining unit members are are needing and a harmonious Western Zone wasn't in the top five of of um needs from from our bargaining unit members and and for the board to to use that as an issue to hold us up from getting to an agreement is it's very disheartening so if if option number one or option number two doesn't work then we'll be prepared to make these same arguments in um in impacts so I also sent you a copy of the perk form 14 um that's the notice of negotiations that have to be submitted to um perk when we begin these negotiation sessions when we complete this notice in neg negotiations and submit it to to perk perk would then assign us a mediator and that mediator will work on us will work with us on our proposals that haven't quite gotten across the finish line for no cost at at all should those mediations fail then we can move forward with the impass process but where at this point where we have two options we can address the Western Zone um for the grandfathered folks and then start addressing the the supplements by increasing it at 1% or we can have a harmonious Western Zone and we can explain that to our bargaining unit members and tell them that we we're going to attempt to increase the rest of the supplements throughout the life of the contract and if neither one of those um options work then I I we have no choice but to explore option number three so um that's our presentation we're more than willing to take any questions at this moment but um I'm just asking you to take our proposals into serious consideration and hopefully we can come back to some sort of agreement or at least a pathway on how to move forward in the next bargaining session I think we'll we'll need to obviously if you wouldn't mind letting us caucus on this um just so we can we can as we're sitting here talk about it because I think instead of just adjourning and saying we'll see at the next bargaining session I I do think we would like a few minutes to talk I don't know what type of response we'll have but I think just give us about 20 minutes or so oh that's that's perfect just to discuss um just to start with but I I do just a couple of things before that happens I want to put out on the table as well and and and I I know we we have a fundamental disagreement on this but it it got said so I have to say it again the board is not singling out Western Zone supplement employees and and I'm sorry that that's the way it is being perceived and I think that's when I say the fundamental disagreement I I think from our table's perspective all we have been trying to do with our proposals um is really just to put in the into Article 2 an error that has not been corrected that was agreed upon at the bargaining table by mca's President and by the chief negotiator for the board and ratified both sides which was a harmonious $3,100 across the board distribution and so I understand that's we don't agree and I get that but I I still don't I don't think it's fair to say that the board is targeting or singling out Western Zone employees by having that approach who said that Terry you had said during your presentation that the board was singling out by holding all of this up as to Western Zone related employee uh supplements and I'm not saying people I'm saying the supplement itself that we would Target supplements or your what language I think was single out um and and it's not singling out it's just trying to rectify what I would perceive as being a clerical error and I know we've had more discussion about that but I just don't want this to go unsa that the board is not singling out anybody and if you didn't intend to make that statement then not it's a nonissue well uh the thing is Terry that I'm the mouthpiece for the bargaining unit members if the board does don't want to hear it from me they can hear it from the Western own employees I'm telling you how they feel so if and and we have like I said we have a western Zone employee sitting right here on our bargaining team we have Western Zone employees wave wave Western's own wave to we we have Western's own employees here so I'm not saying something that's not coming from the voices and the mouths of the western Zone folks the Western Zone people in the audience are not grandfathered they're not upset at the fact that their senior colleagues makes a little bit more money because you know why they make a little bit more money on on pay for performance that's statutory right so everything isn't harmonious and I know your last name is Harmon man but everything can't be harmonious that that's just the the the um the gist of of the matter if the board don't want to hear it from me or if they took some exception then the Western Zone employees have no problem coming to the school board meeting and telling them directly how they feel so all we're trying to do is get a deal and the deal that we're trying to get is we made a we made a ask in the last bargaining session and it's when you took over Terry we made a ask that if if we can put our best foot forward on session number one we can get through this very quickly because I get them done quickly in every other bargaining session we didn't exceed four bargaining sessions in any of the other places that I'm negotiating at the table because I'm not trying to break the school district I'm trying to be fiscally responsible with the money that the school board air marked not one proposal have we asked for one cent more than what they air marked for raises and I think that that's fiscally responsible and I'm incredibly confident arguing that in front of um a magistrate or a mediator that's assigned from perk because our proposals aren't asking you to dig deeper our proposals aren't asking you to ignore the FTE our numbers our proposals are asking you to distribute the money that you air marked in in in the first bargaining session in a way that we believe our members will vote to to ratify so with with that being said you're more than than happy we're more than happy to to to um pause for for a caucus but I just wanted to be explicitly clear that everything that we've proposed at this table thus far with the exception of the 25% increase to the supplements have fell right in line with the money that was air marked for for raises and we didn't come back with a counter proposal and say hey you guys can do 7% you guys can do 6% we're asking you for 1% 1% has a good faith um a good faith effort to addressing this this problem because we we don't want to be the only District that's not addressing these problems and then these other school districts continue to increase their supplements and we're playing catchup so the last thing that that I want to leave you with Terry is that we work very very hard and I when I'm saying we I'm talking about everybody in this room you included and what's the point of being number one in beginning salaries if we're always last in settling our contract like let's be number one in in um beginning salaries and let's be one of the first in the state to finish as well and let's be the example for other school districts to follow with respect to labor and management relationships because that's what my aspirations are I'm not here to fight a cultural War I'm not here to take shots at anyone I'm here to do what's right by our bargaining unit members with the money that the school board air marked for raises not a penny more not a penny less thanks so much and so back what where I was going was again I just wanted to make it clear is the board's um proposals as it relates to the Western Zone supplement language has not been to Target anybody uh but I will I will I have a couple more things to say um before we caucus I I think if you look at the board's actions as well as it relates to its proposals has also been with the direction of getting this done um the board was aggressive out of the gate uh providing over $2 million of the discretionary raise pool for for the from the raise pool to get salaries done we got that done fast we got a salary schedule agreed on Fast and as it related to health insurance yeah we compromised both sides compromised there but that compromise was an additional almost half million doar and so I just think there also needs to be some recognition that both sides have been at the table as it relates to salary it's not the board holding things up on different items we've got other language items this is my last piece we still have some other things out there that that remain unresolved that from a language perspective we're going to have to readdress them at some point if that's the next session that's fine but just kind of going through and this was I'll just do it now this was one of the last items on the agenda but I think if we're going to caucus it it it relates back to I think our article two proposals which I know the Western Zone I think I we're on that but we had retroactive pay language proposal in there that was rejected on article 11 uh we had presidential leave language in there that was rejected and my understanding as we're sitting here at the table is there is not a desire to revisit that from from your team and so I think that's there's still a couple of unresolved issues out there in addition to the salary piece and so my intent I had hoped was maybe we get to that while we're here but with the three options that you presented um I think we need to caucus on that and if that's something that I think what you had said is your your position is that mcda wants to use uh the next session is that's it that's kind of our final Harrah so I think um I would just ask that that your team consider its position on those prior proposals that were rejected when we get to that last session um but I guess for now we're we're comfortable spending just a few minutes to let us go caucus and just kind of talk through the the day so far in the conversation back and forth and then revisit yeah so with with respect to to the outstanding ones that's on the table with the retroactive language I'm I'm still scratching my head as to what does that have to do with with us because along with that proposal isn't a commitment from the board to have more executive sessions there's not a commitment for one of the board members to be in attendance like they do in other school districts just so that you can have a productive caucus session the reason why our our um sessions go long is because of the need of the executive sessions by the by the board as I said and and Terry so we have to respectfully disagree we already argued this issue yeah so so the thing is so you're telling me that you guys have the ability to go in caucus right now and give us a response are you talking about on the options no I'm talking about on anything it's the options today but regardless of what we discussed at the bargaining issues there are certain issues so why do y have so why do y'all have an executive session every every week what's the purpose of having other school boards don't have an executive session every week what's the point of it school boards are not Mar County though that oh I'm I'm very well aware of that I'm very well aware of that Terry you don't have and what other school boards have school board members at negotiation sessions Indian River okay Dr Peggy Jones and and his interest Dr Peggy Jones and it's interest based bargaining other than Indian River named one other school district that has board members at bargaining in okachobee we don't have board members you know why because the superintendent has all the authority to make a decision at the bargaining table the School Board gets involved after we reach a tentative agreement and they ratify just like it says in the statute so we're doing things differently here so let's not act like the unnormal is is normalized because the way that we bargain here and you and you bargain in other districts too Terry this is the only District that you bargain in this isn't normal it isn't normal and and we we can address that at the impass process too so a mediator can tell you guys that it's not normal it's not good faith bargaining when you send a team to a bargaining session without the authority to say yes or no on what's on the table you guys have to stop consult with the school board get their permission and then come back and respond to us that's the way it has been for the entire four years that I've been bargaining in the school district there is I'm not going to I'm not going to engage yeah there's no need to I'm I'm I'm telling I'm speaking facts 100% facts there's nothing inappropriate about what this board does I didn't say that what I'm saying is is that that's what delays the process the reason why we were able to get to an agreement the first night and finish our tentative agreement in okobi is because their superintendent has the authority to say yes or no they don't have to have an executive session with their school board the reason why we could get to an to an agreement in two three sessions in Indian River is because Dr Moore is empowered through the school board to make those decisions absent of their vote before the ratification process so I I mean you don't have to believe what I'm saying you're more than welcome to check it in and of yourself the last time I I heard irrelevant Gary I really don't care what another District does like has a right to right and we have we have a right to say no we have a right to say no so asking us asking us to to consider striking our retroactive language over something that's completely beyond our control because we come here with the authority of all 1100 bargaining unit members to make an agreement we don't have to go to anyone else to make an agreement that's where we differ at so I I don't I don't um have any intentions on on um on belaboring that that point any any further but all we have to do is just pull out the tapes of all of our bargaining sessions and nine times out of 10 it's going to end with you guys saying oh well we're going to take this back to the board and we'll have an answer for you the next time that's the pure definition of not having Authority at the table to make a decision I there's no point in arguing with you about our operations and and adherence to the legal requirement to the requirements of of collective bargaining you do your team's way you do not represent an employer or a school board we will continue to to do what we need to do right and you have that get where we need to go and you have that right just don't ask us to to make our members lose money because you guys got to have a bargain an executive session every week that's the only thing that I'm saying I'm not telling you not to have your executive session what I'm saying is don't cut our members money short because you got to have a bargaining session I mean a um executive session every week that's the only thing that I'm saying you can have as many as you want but don't ask us to to lose out on money because of it that's that's what that is not what's being asked so so so so what is being asked if you're saying that we we have to come to an agreement by February or else we won't be we won't have our payments retroactive how is that not a financial hit to our members G would you would agree right generally speaking that not coming to an agreement hurts every one of your members right no I would not I would not agree to that what I would agree to is that the district the board coming to the table without Authority hurts our membership because like I said this is the only place that it happens at this is the only place that it happens at and and I'm telling you like some sometimes I I I kind of miss the private sector at least at least these guys know what's on the table I kind of missed the private sector at least they they cut straight to the point with with this it's not even it's it's taxpayer dollars man like you never been you've never been in a Martin County School schol Board executive session in your entire life so you can't tell us and our team at the table what we do and don't do during ex what did I say that you do and you don't do only thing I said is that you have them I didn't say what was done or what was said or what was discussed in these meetings what I say is that you have them every week okay so I mean I'm I'm very conscientious and deliberate in what I'm saying Terry so let's not try to put words in my mouth to make my argument alternative an alternate version of of what it is what I'm simply saying is the reason why this process takes so long is because we can't separate in the caucus and then come back after 20 minutes 30 minutes an hour and come to an agreement like we did in sessions um in in the session where we dealt with salaries in the session that we dealt with insurance we were able to get in the caucus come to an agreement on that that was the first time in four years that that's happened the first time in four years because we had to agree because we had the point of The Proposal from our perspective they have to age is not to give the school board the opportunity to have executive sessions and to drag things out the purpose of the proposal that we put in there because right now what the language says is we can bargain in perpetuity and come back and and and resolve in two and a half years from now or whatever period of time and make good on that that that just drags it out and so what our approach was the board's approach was to force both parties to get to the table and to come to an agreement by February because if it didn't happen the non retroactive perspective is bad for everybody no it's and so whether it's excessive exe executive sessions from your position or whether from our position it is rejections of offers that we think are and we agree to disagree on that all the time but the the onus of it was to force both parties and I know you've said it the last one the first time I proposed this that we should already be doing that and we are but when you have a contract that says it it done by February 1 or else you're going to have a thousand very angry people it would it would have to speed this process along that's the reason why it was proposed it's if anything it would have the effect of condensing the time period and so that's the reason why it's being thrown out there as a proposal and why the board would like to do that was to make it get done faster not artificially but having it in concrete that's it that's all it is and if you don't agree I hear yeah and and but the thing is is that for the past two bargaining sessions we were putting ground rules proposals on the table to which the board had no appetite wouldn't those ground rules accomplish the same thing man let's go to let's go to caucus it's so hypocritical it's so hypocritical the board has rejected ground rules for two years consecutively two years consecutively and then we want to talk about putting pressure on both sides to get to let's go to to caucus let's please go to caucus one side has a consequence yeah only one side suffers in that only one side suffers in that consequence and it's always our side y I did not I'm sorry I did not I did that did not come through so all right so what they said was with with that proposal only one side suffers should we not get to a February deadline there's no Oneness or or any accountability on a board to to I think everybody suffers in that scenario which they're suffering now they're suffering now making less money well there's three options on the table that could help fix things y okay we uh missa you just want I'll just I think she's got to carry the laptop I think she's G to take the but we could get back all right you're you're recording thank you okay so than again thank you for that time um I think kind of wrapping up the salary options that you propos um we had some time to talk through those options one two um really kind of had a very short time to talk about where I think we are in the language side which I think it's pretty clear from where we were before we went to caucus that still not an appetite to revisit those so I think in light of that we we do think it would be beneficial um with where we are on those kind of those items that we talked about to come back uh at that session on the 24th um as I think the message has been sent that that your position is that's it um as it relates to the proposals that were made and the three options that you've outlined in writing I appreciate that I think it helps us understand the why and to see it we can run some calculations on our end as well um and just just have an opportunity to more thoroughly go through it in light of where we are on some of the other items as well so as my notes are uh and I know you may have some more provide but I think I have September 24th as our next date is that what you have I believe you're right I'm double cheing right now yes sir okay okay so I think that's that's what we got from our team perspective into this point okay all right always a pleasure like I think you're good on your side so we can we can call it a day and each other in 12 days yes sir thank you thank you thank you all thank you thank you that's