I will call the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m um so as a preliminary matter this is Jillian Prendergast I am the chair of the mayor finance committee um please permit me to confirm that all members and persons anticipated on the agenda are present and can hear me Members when I call your name please respond in the affirmative um Nathan yes Peter yes Linda yes Katie yes Kevin yes all right um so and we also have our special guest our staff um coming tonight so thanks for that so Justin can you hear us okay good evening everyone thanks so much for coming of course all right I'm gonna finish reading uh the script and then we'll jump into business um also as is tradition my computer is still a potato so um I don't have my camera uh or I will disconnect so um all right so um good evening um this is a meeting a open meeting of the the um mayor finance committee it is being conducted via Zoom speakers on the agenda will be participating remotely and the chair may allow for public to provide comments um uh so depending on the comment the board May able within the confines of open meeting law respond with the information as opposed to needing to deliberate on the matter please note that while an option for remote attendance and our participation is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting hearing uh it's not a hearing the meeting will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast to individual attendees and otherwise required by law accordingly Please be aware that other folks may be able to see you um and be able to see your computer screen if you share so um please take care not to screen share your computer uh anything that you broadcast may be captured by the recording this meeting is being recorded uh and will later be posted to the wavm uh YouTube channel so thanks very much for posting that wavm so uh for all of our meeting material all the supporting materials are on board dos um you should be able to find that by going to the town of meard website there is a link on the finance committee web page um and let's see so now we're going to turn do the agenda and I don't think all the rest of the comments on the script are for open meeting so we will go with the abbreviated version tonight I see that kadia has signed on in the meantime can you hear us okay tonight all right excellent so we have a full Full House for the finance committee tonight uh we have our special guest Justin so uh we are very thankful for everyone's presence tonight uh and uh I'd like to kick it off with our first topic tonight which is updates um from Justin and also um about some of the annual town meeting sponsored articles so I hand the floor over to you sir thank you Jillian and uh my apologies Jillian did reach out um on Friday in regard to draft articles we're a little behind um in town hall but for the most part a significant amount of my draft article should be um submitted within the next day or two unfortunately I was pulled in a couple of different directions for our upcoming bonding and some other issues that we had to deal with over the past couple of days but in essence um um a lot of our draft articles for annual town meeting are cyclical um in nature there is no outstanding um articles that should draw um extreme conversation outside of just our annual budget so our water Enterprise fund our sewer Enterprise fund our Reserve funds for both Water and Sewer our receipts um transfer from our Golf Course contract um our Perpetual care trust change which is more of a the best way to describe is a receipt change over from sale of graves into our trust the end our expenditure account there actually three accounts when you're talking about the cemeteries um there is um one equipment purchased through water through retained earnings so a retained earnings transfer in regards to um a piece of equipment procurement and other than that um we may be anticipating an easement but I'm not sure I'll be able to get it um developed before uh before annual draft uh before annual town meeting so in essence it's really those highlevel um budget items that reflect back to DPW or have um have some ties back to DPW so if you want to discuss any of those Jillian I know it's hard because you guys haven't seen them as a board but if there's anything Weighing on your mind in regards to budget and DPW please um I'm here tonight to answer any questions you may have and I am also willing to come back um knowing that the Articles haven't kind of crossed your plate yet yeah it's um it's a little it's a little hard to talk about the Articles since we don't have them in front of us um yeah you don't have to disc I mean questions I know there's some newer board members who may not understand why DPW may put together those articles versus another department um so it was more of just for context um I know you put out some of those those questions in regards to I want to say um you had a question in regards to the golf course receipts I don't know if you have a specific question regarding the golf course that may be tied back to the golf course receipts Julian yeah so I I personally asked that question because I saw that it is an article but I mean I think it's always an article so um I'm not sure how many members on the board are aware of sort of the cycle of how that works like the golf course Pace it's like sort of uh reinvested in itself and and things like that but it has to go through certain channels um and I know we've talked about things uh we've talked about the senior center which is also you know potentially using some space there right now um and there is some Capital things as well for the golf course um that have come up in the past and I think uh that was what that was all that came up on my brain about the golf course go ahead sorry Kevin yeah it's it's the roof I believe is the capital expenditure it's a a roof is it a roof with placement or roof what's what's going on with the roof Justin yeah so I was just going to kind of high level it as a whole and some of the some of the members may have seen uh last Danel town meeting so to Jillian's point we have a contract for our our management operation of the town of Maynard's golf course so the town of the the golf course within the town of mayard is a public asset we own the facility and we have a contract for a Management Service called Sterling golf who uh utilizes our asset to make re you run their own business um and they pay us a revenue share they have a minimum payment of $50,000 a year and then there's a cost sharing based on revenues above that aspect so typically we average anywhere between 60 to $75,000 a year in um Revenue back to the Town based on the contract that we have with Sterling management the town of mayard is still responsible for Capital Improvements there above and beyond $6,000 so if there is let's just say a window gets broken with the with the golf ball it's Sterling golf Management's responsibility to replace that window but let's just say that the um the ramp going up to the facility where to collapse that's the man's responsibility and obviously there's a far more minutia outside of that it even goes into the golf course operations such as the wells the pumps running irrigation as a whole with that being said we have uh we have a large Capital issue with that facility so when the town of mayard purchased that facility the facility was already passed its useful life it's been it's a it's a building that has multiple rendition additions on it that was kind of just piece mailed together so we have a major roof failure in regards to that facility and it actually also incorporates uh roof mounted HVAC components that are past their useful life the roof failure is starting to um deteriorate the interior of the facility if you've ever visited the moror golf course and you go inside whether you go into the COA or the front door you'll you'll see ceiling tiles that are destroyed you'll see some plaster um some plaster issues over by the bar that's all um degradation from the roof the the um it's a flat roof with EPDM and asphalt shingles again it's really a it's it's a mish mash of of issues there but all of them are past a useful life um and the entire roof has to be replaced not only from a material roofing material replacement but from a structural issue there's also lead um and asbest this abatement that comes with that so as of right now our estimated cost for full replacement in HVAC component replacement is $770,000 um I spoke well I emailed with Jillian recently to find out that you have been given a access to our cleargov system to see our Capital Improvement requests so if you want some major details it's actually housed in there as an attachment you'll see um the scope of work proposed for the roof replacement I will say that that's not the only large scale Capital Improvement item there it's just the most risky the windows and envelope are failing the um the egresses are subpar to say the least there was some investment made in that facility but strictly on the COA portion um roughly less than 10 years ago but the facility as a whole is in major need of U multi-million dollar upgrades um but the roof is our highest priority and we're starting to compartmentalize that out in requests because we may have to entertain bonding to solve that issue over the course of the past four years since I've been here we've done um annual receipt transfers in that 50 to $65,000 range and we are um building our reserves to try to offset the cost so that we don't have to go out to bond but unfortunately as fast as we're building Revenue inflation's doing a number on us so the Delta Gap is closing just not as fast as you would like technically right now we have about $250,000 in our um in our accounts so we have a 500,000 or a half a million thousand deficit um to overcome to even move on the roof this year um and again both of those continue to grow and we're just not uh closing the Gap so there's a bigger larger conversation there all right that's of the high level of the golf course all right uh so I guess first question uh to Justin are you familiar with the financials of this contract Arrangement like what Revenue are we getting um because what I would like to do on this article is ascertain what the financials look like is this going to be a net Roi for our town or are we in fact going to be spending money for some non-financial benefit for our residents uh so if you're I can give you the information cin but technically just so you're aware is a $50,000 minimum and we average 65,000 that's all we bring in so there is a negative aspect to this um from a revenue or financial aspect so technically the town of manard is in essence paying for a service to provide for its residents we're not this is not a net cash benefit um that $250,000 whether it's whether we bond out and we use it to offset Bond cost no the town of maner puts in money um or let's rephrase that we don't put in money but our assets crumbling so you have to look at it in that that retrospect so technically we don't pay for anything outside within my facili general operating budget but we do utilize some of that Revenue to offset um smaller Capital Improvement aspects that I deem are high rate risk to the operation so we have kind of held back on some of the improvements in that facility of a minor statute so that we can continue to address the roof without the facility it brings in no revenue and then we're just upside down okay um do you have what was the last valuation of the building done you want to so you would have to ask the assessor of that okay we don't we don't run that annually because it's not taxed okay it's not tax sure if you ask as the finance committee I'm sure the assessor can give you a rough rough idea yeah I do think we we need to establish you know again I'm interested in the financials um to present to town meeting voters you know is this a negative cash flow is this is this we're paying money for a non-financial service or is there some residual value left in the building that we could potentially save by doing this Improvement yeah so there's a little bit of nuances I'm pretty positive there's a conservation restriction on the on um that entire parcel which will change the value um so if you were to necessarily um disposition that there's a hard there's a hard conservation restriction on that whole property so again you'd have to dive in a little deeper but you could definitely start with assessor giving you a rough valuation of the facility yeah so Katie if we could send important to note that that um that article is more I don't want to say housekeeping but it's more routine it's sort of more like saying this is what the article is not about the roof right now okay they are okay oh just to be clear okay so this is the routine $60,000 that we receive in Revenue okay okay no bonding request Gavin there's there's no borrowing capacity if that was if that was in consideration we'd have a much larger conversation all right when I bring up the bonding the only reason I say that is we're not closing the gap of the cost of the repairs with the revenue source so unfortunately the town will have to figure out a means to close that Gap outside of just strictly the golf course Revenue all right so we receive so I know this is routin but just so I can explain to T voters we receive about $60,000 in grow Revenue um from this operations and then we turn around and we're spending more than $60,000 in maintenance on this we would be in essence yes okay yeah so I I agree I think this this has got to be a more detailed conversation later but I'm willing to um forgo that conversation well I imagine you probably intend to bring this around special town meeting correct no no so the no so I don't even know where the bonding will be so this is in the hands of the Capital committee so just be aware the Capcom is fully understanding of the issues that we have the um funding mechanisms and the funding gaps and it is their job to make a recommendation to the Town Administrator and the select board and how they want to approach it I just put in uh the scope of services the rough costs and I prioritize um the Capital Improvements um at each facility and I'm only prioritizing at this time the roof but it may be a situation where if we have to bond you then have the conversation of well if we're going to bond for half a million do we Bond and do all of the work and look at the difference in cost value that's more of the reason that I brought that up sometimes you don't want to chase a 100,000 200,000 $300,000 bonds because the cost just to go out to bond is is significant so that's a different conversation but that's being uh discussed I'm sure with Capcom the TA and the select board but again if the if the finance committee um wants to be part of that conversation I highly encourage you to reach out to the TA okay do you know what what wait uh Kevin sorry can I just restate one second Justin on the cash flow with the golf course um you know per the contract the revenue sharing we get you know 50 to 60k each year that we then turn around and spend on the golf course we're not spending any money outside of that and with that level of spending you know you'd certainly say the asset that we have there is slowly deteriorating 100% pet you nailed it that's 100% correct yep Justin if the coun Aging moves moves out oh sorry Peter no go ahead sorry if the Council on Aging moves out to their new Senior Center is there any savings to the town and utilities um would the golf course would we get more revenue from the golf course because they could use more of the space so Linda that's that is conceptual so that did actually take place when we first procured the golf course the COA wasn't there um and at that time Sterling golf has been the management company since um since we procured it we've actually gone out to RFP twice and they're the only contender in the conal of Massachusetts it just happens um but they actually do describe when they first received their first contract that they saw increased Revenue because they had excess space which was the COA at the time that they used for wedding functions and things of that nature now if you look at the layout if you haven't been in there Linda we've we've built it out to be a COA it's not just an excess room there would be some um modifications that would have to be done in order for the golf course to use it in a manner that would be um you know cumbersome to them or advantageous to them um but in regards to saving on utilities it depends on what the COA does Linda so technically the COA pays for the cost sharing of the utilities so right now it's a square footage cost differential technically the best way to describe it is the town of Maynard pays about 25% of the electric and gas costs to operate that facility Sterling golf pays the other 75% % um that includes Water and Sewer we don't charge the COA but we do keep that bill on track so that technically Sterling golf pays 75% now also be aware that their irrigation system so the golf course is not tied to public drinking water so they have their own Wells they have their own Pond they have their own pumping equipment which is costly um but it also saves on our capacities so that's also like a bigger conversation it's something that we want to continue to take place but it is a it is a cost driver for them um I wouldn't say there would be a substantial difference Linda because based off the conversations that I hear and what the COA may or may not do if they were to lease other space like the mill and Main I'm sure Amy's budget would drastically go l so I um as of right now the way that I see it and the financials that I saw with the lease agreement with Mill and Maine is right now having the COA in that facility is actually a cost reduction for the town yeah it's just there's other issues um the COA can explain those more but I can I can hit on some of those points the envelopes failing so the egresses are not easy if you've never traversed that location especially from an elderly person the parking lot Topography is awful so it's just it's just not an ideal facility it wasn't designed for seniors per se thank you this may be getting a little far field but Justin can you speak to um the what happened when the town acquired the golf course in the first place was it primarily to like provide a service to Residents or was it was their thoughts they would be profit making so they purchased it with CPA funds if you're unfamiliar with CPA funds um there is a historic bucket a a recreational bucket which they targeted the recreational bucket so when the golf course went under it was bankrupt and it was for sale um the town as a whole this is a town meeting vote not just local government not just the select board the town meeting vote to procure that situation I'm sure it was brought forth by Major stakeholders such as the TA select board at the time but they utilize CPA funds they actually bonded for the purchase of that technically right now the CPA is still paying for those Bond proceeds on that golf course it is sunsetting soon so the CPA can decide to do whatever they want with their funds after that but I know that has actually been a hindrance on a lot of recreational improvements throughout the town over the course of that bonding process so when you hear CPA say we can't fund the entirety of the bleachers because a lot of their recreational funding or the discretionary funding is going towards their bond payments for the golf course now I wasn't here when the town meeting happened but everything that I hear culturally was that there was a little bit of contention it wasn't an easy town meeting there was a little bit of back and forth it wasn't a unanimous hey everybody wants a golf course but it was sold on the sheare fact that there was a need for conservation land and need for excess Recreation now the golf course whether it's run by Sterling or not technically is a Recreation conservation parcel under the name town of mayard so it is our asset for conservation of recreation um just to add to that for people who may not know um I mean when that happened I think the primary driver of town meeting was concern about the parcel being developed for housing and we we were seeking to you know to buy it with the CPAC money um the idea of continuing it as a golf course has always been a short-term thing um that you know when we bought it we said okay let's not let the golf course deteriorate and then we can never have it be a golf course again so we decided we'll keep running it as a golf course until we decide to do something else with it um but you know at the time it was happening we were concerned about having that much development in town and the impact on schools um little did we know we'd be wanting students by 20 years later but anyway uh that that's was mostly the context of it was to avoid it being sold uh for development yeah it's considered open space Recreation it's in the open space and wck plant for the town it definitely meets a lot of um master plan goals things of that nature it's just to Peter's point you know what what's the next move I will tell you from my position I haven't been told otherwise keep running the golf course um a sensitivity on the part of the uh C CPC which is the community preservation committee um regarding the golf course in that the structure itself may not have been eligible for CPC funding and that's one of the overhanging issues that we're wrestling that the CPC is wrestling with um and they have approached the finom they've discussed with fincom before about the town possibly throwing some money to purchase the structure um but there is a sensitivity there that by certain readings of the community preservation act that that house should not have been eligible for the CPC but it has not undergone a thorough legal review so I won't speak too highly of this but Town Council reviewed that prior to the CPA purchasing and the AG's office approved of it so just be mindful of that okay that that's a little bit of history that I I have not heard but uh yeah but that's that's it's good to know that that this was actually reviewed and approved by AG State AG yeah all our articles always have to be approved by the AG so even if an article came across town meeting it still has to be approved by the AG's office um I think a lot of that is more of a buyer remorse and I will say there is some buyers remorse there's a situation of we thought we were getting X and we didn't do a thorough facilities assessment and we're taking on a large amount of deterioration so I mean I know kadisha is an architect I bring you I'll bring you in the facility sometime kadisha and you you'll shake your head and say it should be demoed and it there's no basement it's just a it was a cottagey situation that turned into a clubhouse it's just it's just a bad asset that we need to invest heavily in I will say that other towns have done this uh St Marks in SRO is a perfect example of it they purchased a very very small golf course for the town of sou bro but they invested a million5 in it their revenues have now tripled so it's like anything else if you look at it like a business you have to invest sometimes and the draws there the competition for golf public golf courses is dwindling meaning there is a supply and demand there is no uh nine-hole public golf courses uh similar to mayard if there was a large investment we could draw a bigger crowd which could draw bigger Revenue it's just hard to get across because we have other Improvement that are far more um vital within the community than driving a business that's the hard part about this but like anything else there is definitely Capital to be had there and revenue to be had if it was flipped around I'm an actual Avid golfer and I will tell you the there is a nine-hole course in um in um Bolton called Twin Springs that just went under development and it was Sterling Golf and town of M's direct competition and we saw probably about a 30% increase um in our season passes directly tied to Twin Springs and this is if you ever went to both Golf Course Twin Springs is like really high level and there's not a lot of other options for um for nine hole courses so the potential is there um it's unfortunate that within the industry there's not a lot of management competition so there's really only one pony in the game and it's Sterling golf management they manage roughly a half a dozen public golf courses um there just not a lot of competition there to drive up the revenue but it's a conversation to be had it's a long-term conversation to be had as well so so last question who is under the contract with Sterling golf who is responsible for the day-to-day maintenance of the facility is that Sterling golf that is Sterling golf that is correct yes so like every large service contract I'm the contract manager of that aspect but it's very similar to our wastewater treatment facility so they are responsible for the entire asset um day-to-day maintenance up to $6,000 a an incident for repairs so not like a collective it's not like hey we got all these things and that's over six grand It's actually an incident um and then we're responsible for any major improvements above that threshold um I'm not impressed with Sterling I'm also realistic that it is what it is that they go above and beyond no do they make sure the course is suitable for them to maximize Revenue absolutely the facility is just there that is not the driver of their revenue the golf course is the driver of their revenue most people aren't sitting there drinking for five hours after they play so they see the difference and they invest in the golf course and less in the facility but but they they are responsible and in a sense so let me ask you um you've probably done walkthroughs of this facility um is the root cause of this roof of the failure of the roof membrane because of a lack of regular maintenance it's 45 years old okay and it was put together with lead overhangs over asphalt shingles it was never put on properly it is not it is a huge issue okay so it's the back to the buyer's remorse we we kind of bought a uh an asset with a yeah yeah it's actually a direct correlation to a roof mounted HVAC system that they put on when it turned into a golf course and they didn't actually do it properly so the transitions weren't done so most of the failures are due to the hvc component connection so who who's the who's the they there is that Sterling or was that the prior owner of the the prior owner yeah prior owner okay that's what there's the reason they went bankrupt yeah and we we bought the asset off of them and they kind of uh you know we're regretting that purchase now I wouldn't say regret it's just lack of investment so the again the asset can make money but it's priority ation so you could say the same thing with the Art Space building so we we had a contract where someone was responsible to maintain it they met the barebone minimum maximized what they could off of it and now we're sitting with an asset that's worth nothing so someone could say the same thing on the opposite end if we disposition that okay question oh sorry oh I'm I'm done with the golf course I just want to say that I had questions on two other things we got two other articles one is from the tree committee they want to put an article on um shade trees a new part of the bylaws and it references a lot of work for the tree warden so do we already have is that you or someone designated in your office is already the tree warden so I am the tree Warden as well okay um so the tree committee um is a TA appointed committee and actually the tree committee was originally formed when I started four years ago and their sole role was to assist the tree Warden as you can imagine with too many hats I don't have enough time to do a lot of things so um the tree committee has um has grown exponentially in the four years meaning their educational aspect their their knowledge towards uh process and they have singularly come to a h a collective understanding of approach um the bylaw that they have put in place is actually one that wanted in place and I worked diligently with the committee over the last four years to make sure that it wasn't overreaching it was not something that could change Authority outside Master General law if you're unfamiliar with public shade tree laws it's chapter 87 under master in the law which allows the tree Warden certain uh legalities under state code so we can't necessarily supersede that we could always make it stricter but to that point when you're introducing a bylaw for the first time it was highly encouraged that we're looking at this as mostly an educational piece because most people don't really want to dig through Mass gen law you know I know how to navigate it because I've been doing it for a long time and every once in a while I just shake my head and say oh my God does this circle back this is a lawyer's Heaven um but in essence it's really just like a general overview and it's something that could be built off in the future Lind up but technically I'm already doing all of that work and I'm already responsible that thank you a lot of this was to to empower the tree committee is also to empower our community so we are focused on enhancement of public shade trees and what that valuation can do for the overall uh community so um Justin when I was reading through that Warren article um I was comparing it to the Mass General law and like a lot of the language seemed just like you said it's you know kind of using that and I was hoping you could clarify like what is additional is it mostly the part about establishing the tree committee um or there Parts about what the tree Warden does in addition to what's already Mass General law so Nathan A lot of it was more of a localized education education I find that most of the residents that I've dealt with in my 20 years experience don't go into state law statute stakeholders do in committees when they start to dig in as you heard C say he wants to dig further that not a lot of stakeholders get to that level that's a committee situation but from a day-to-day residential aspects most people will go as far as finding their local buos so a lot of this was just a carryover so that our residents can be more educated or the information is in front of them also town meeting is a beautiful thing in some aspects it is very very slow and governmental process but it is a great opportunity to educate the masses in one day so understanding if there's questions what these are I'll be there and I'm able to answer those which also Empower our residents to really understand what's going on and to your last Point Nathan a lot of that is to empower the tree community and over time if you're unfamiliar bylaws can be very contentious so residents when they see bylaws they look at that as rights being lost or change of Rights and it when you're introducing a new bylaw which this is you want to touch very Softly on what that looks like so am I impacting a lot of people's rights with this absolutely it's all state statute you can if you ever reference cambridge's tree law it actually crosses um private property rights and that bylaw was not implemented overnight it was years and years and years of development I am very sensitive to public private um property rights and a lot of this is more of an education and understanding when we're growing as a community the importance and the role of public shade trees in our growth pattern so if we start to become a very dense Community we are already a dense Community but the best way to describe it is we're a very very dense town but there's larger conversations here I think I I want to say all of you are at the tri board meeting when I said are you prepared for what a city looks like right now we're out of space horizontally the next step is vertically so Jimmy McDonald's in 115 is your first opport opportunity to start to see vertically in your time in this town and as you start to loosen by laws and you chase growth it's going to get higher and higher and higher and denser and denser and denser and there's a huge role to play here with not losing the sheer fact of open space conservation Recreation public shade trees Environmental Protection and sadly all of those things have to do with climate change so it's a lot of this is setting the table for our future conversations on how we adapt to climate change as a community my other question was on the spreadsheet we got a great spreadsheet from you on the uh Solid Waste and Recycling and my question is and you had a lot on the on the revenue that we get what's the what's the process for increasing the sticker fees is if we have any of that if we have H how long have you lived in town a long time and I've paid the same for a long time okay do you do you remember about three or four years ago there was a sticker that said I survived mayard trash gate yeah so that was made because of me so when I first started four years ago the stickers were not increased for over 20 years yeah and this Gap was two two to three times the size of that in regards to the um expenditure uh Gap I made a recommendation to the select board we adopted a change in sticker pricing which was a 50% increase actually I'm sorry it was 100% increase yeah so it went from a dollar to $2 $2 to $4 um which then thus closed the Gap to what you see today yeah that was not taken lightly um technically about two years ago I looked at it again and Revisited and brought another second recommendation to the select board not only from a revenue perspective but from a programmatic change and a programmatic approach to a more efficient and effective system the select board entertained it but was also very very sensitive to the sheer fact of residents and their services um and there was some blowback and push back with I pay enough taxes you should just pick my trash up so the task force that you may he about our Solid Waste and Recycling task force was formed to explore all opportunities um I am on that board I'm on that task force with a number of volunteer residents who have technical skills in multiple aspects of solid waste management um and we're on the verge of developing our finalized recommended programmatic approach for the select board to consider for adoption and one of the sheer facts is um that I have not let go of the financial gap and why I presented this in the first place and some of our recommendations would be for complete 100% offset Linda but again that recommendation hasn't been made I'm hoping that that can happen within um within the next couple of months we are working pretty hard and we're very close um and if anything we would look to have a program that's 100 B self-funded and so this is really in the author of the select board sounds like absolutely okay so but here's the thing Linda this is a this is a multi- authority issue so the Board of Health excuse me the Board of Health adopts the program rules and regulations so our recommendation has to be adopted by the Board of Health then the contract management and financials have to be adopted by the select board my recommendation that I believe C may have sent you guys the PowerPoint presentations I can't remember was probably about two years ago now the Board of Health actually adopted my recommendation for pratic change it was the select board that was very hesitant to that again they are sensitive to the sheer fact of no matter how you look at it it does hit our residents pocketbook or your wallet so even if we increase the stickers that's going um that's increasing while taxes increase while Water and Sewer rates increase so there was a sensitivity to that specifically at the time when we were talking about the Green Meadow School so uh so first let me just inform the committee this is that recommendation that Justin just talked about is what I've been a broken record about for the last eight months or so maybe even longer um but as he says there is a full um Financial offset to be had and just I'm taking that you mean the um $494,000 you refer to in the spreadsheet yeah so that's our yeah that's our tax subsidy so technically right now we collect you know you could see the total stick sticker sales which is our receipts and the 431 865 is what we pay for out our general taxation so if we were to close that Gap that 431 86 5 could be reallocated for many things within your operating budget or it could offset uh tax rate increases so there's multiple ways to look at that there's also you know many theories where okay if you reallocate that then we're still paying for XYZ so the only way to potentially reduce cost burden to our residents would be to offset the tax rate with it but while we're in budget crisis for a number of things you have the schools that that are asking for X and they may not get X and you have other services that are requiring um investment or increasing um um operating budgets this could potentially be used to um offset that but again my job is really to identify this and come up with ideas and solutions to uh allow for the town to free up some of its general tax funding now Justin I I saw in that Pres presentation that you gave about two years ago that were you to adopt the programmatic changes that you would recom were the select board to adopt the programmatic changes you recommended uh the effective um not just the tax subm but the the cost that the residents pay themselves uh in Li of a sticker fee I think it was like a monthly Barrel fee um but the rate they were paying would actually go down by virtue of the automated automated barrels and the labor cost savings we would achieve and the efficiencies we achieve by the automated barrel system yeah at that time we had cost quotes for um two options and um the shift in the allowance to go to an automated service reduced cost burden for um drivers um staff on behalf of the service contract liabilities for workman's comp things of that nature because it's again it's a machine operated lifting capacity versus a man operated with capacity so at that time though remember that's a snapshot in time um as we go through as a task force and we Define our programmatic approach and that becomes adopted we will submit either an RFP or an ifb and we will secure the real cost of that programmatic approach and then we can weigh that against the revenue that's needed to offset it um but that's what we're working through so step one is to identify the program approach that the town of mayard could see as an effective efficient means that also satisfies all the wants of our residents per se we're never going to satisfy everybody so just please be aware when you're talking about a service that affects every single resident we're never going to satisfy the masses but if you can remember we put out a ve very uh diligent survey um it was very thorough and we have a significant amount of information it was one of our most actually it was our most successful survey to date in general government um so we feel very confident and where we're headed now we're just trying to make sure that we um our programmatic approach is something that is um not overly Innovative in the industry because then you have cost triggers for trying to invent a new program but we're just making sure um we check uh the due diligence of several comp towns that have programs very similar where we're tracking so is there a plan of adopt is there a a feel for the timeline on this um in terms of you know when you give you when you give your recommendation um then the select Board gets approval like how soon could we potentially see um that Subs that the savings from the subsidies were currently giving to the trash program should that be adopted so technically right now our current service contract expires June 30th 2024 but we have another one-year extension on that contract that will bring us to June 30th 2025 based on the way that the committee is moving we anticipate that we should have um a recommendation to the board within the next couple of months um but that being said with that recommendation we're also looking for the potential of the financial structure which may take a town meeting so there could be a request for Enterprise funding for a special town meeting there we're also tracking that we want to do an RFP um if you are unaware that Solid Waste and Recycling is exempt under Massachusetts procurement law meaning that any town could just hire whoever they want um basically we do want to open it back up for competition so an RFP takes time time though so development of the RFP um going over that process so if anything I would anticipate that anything that's going to happen wouldn't affect the financials until FY 26 okay let me just say like putting on my financial oversight hat for a second it would be my strong preference that that that' be a competitive process as opposed to you know Source s sourcing or whatever the the official technology is well that's where we're leaning the problem is when you when you identified too prescriptive a program then you created Soul source to begin with and and that's the issue there's if you're unaware of the reason why it's procurement exempt there's about three to four major players in the Commonwealth it's an oligopoly um and that's not changing a lot technically Environmental Policy is creating a monopoly so a lot of the oligopolies are starting to buy each other out because there's no where to bring solid w and state policy is actually driving that um you can make the argument of why if it's right or wrong but technically when you're talking about capitalism the policy is driving the cost and they're driving those factors um for the town remainer we're trying to capture everything within our community's needs but a cost effective approach so I will say perfect example in the survey is everybody wants a transfer facility everybody body wants weekly this weekly that but they don't want to pay more so again not everybody's going to get what they what they want but at the end of the day we're trying to capture at least the service that um enhances what we have but effectively and efficiently modernizes the program with a financial cost um offset across the board so you mentioned the transfer facility for example there's other constraints we have to operate under other than just financial and the services of residents wants there's also environmental considerations which severely constrains our ability to provide a transfer facility just as an example but just so the rest of the committee is aware that this is a very complex operation with a lot of moving Parts um to it we are tracking well though I will say the conversation will start to start to really ramp up um hopefully prior to special town meeting so there may be the conversation of the financial triggers and uh to meeting vote at that time we should have a better understanding if the board adopts our programmatic approach we'll probably see push back or not we'll have a better gauge of how the town's Feeling by that programmatic approach prior to special town meeting so I would kind of keep that in your mind for this conversation and I guess my last last thought of the matter is um is is are the recom ation you considering going to involve a upfront capital investment that would sa you know upfront capital investment that would save operational costs um but I would I would love to say that Maynard is in a financially secure position to do that but we're not and the luxury of me wearing multiple hats is I'm at every single meeting of every stakeholder and never major Authority and I am well aware of the financial issues looming over the town of made as a whole so we're approach this service contract with the situation where any Capital Improvement is baked into the contract um and then we will Design the contract specifically if we have design modifications of the program we'll design the contract so it's not longterm so that we can uh reassess after typically like a three-year contract and at that time we may consider depending on our financial um situation we may consider um invest in our own systems and what C's talking about is if we went to a cart system would we purchase the carts and own them or would we have that baked into a service contract there's many ways to look at that um you could even have that conversation of a transfer facility if we went in that direction which we're not leaning because the costs are far too much would you invest at a $15 million facility but am I going to be the only one saying hey we want a transfer station against the school that's $70 million a DPW that's going going to be about $15 million a senior center that may be $10 million the timing is not is not appropriate uh Justin did I understand correctly that a new contract um would take effect in FY 26 and that would be for the hauling portion of the solid waste budget so a new so our last contract extension will actually take place in fy2 so this July first yeah so then so one more year and then we know in FY 26 yeah so let's just say so we're not going to have a recommendation I will like spill the beans so in a month or two I'm going to approach the select board to issue the last extension as part of our current contract within that July to July we will hopefully conduct a special town meeting that should remove any hurdles we need from a town meeting vote and then after that we will issue RFP over the winter hopefully award contract in the spring in anticipation for July 1st when you're talking about large service contracts like this you actually need a significant amount of time specifically if we need a town meeting boat because if we don't get it it's special we're gonna have to get it at annual or we're gonna have to just go back to hey non Soul Source hey non-procurement can you give us a contract for the next three years to continue at this place and we can always have those conversations but those that would be like the emergency approach this is the right way to plan it so that if there was any issues at special or conversation pieces that needed to be had we can address those at special and if it had to it can carry over to annual but we can still conduct RFP in the winter time but our um Solid Waste and Recycling expenses would not be affected by the new budget because that's based on the landfills that are accepting those is that correct correct so we have so we technically have two contra s so our solid and maybe I should have premised with this because I'm I'm I know C has gone to a lot of meetings but some of you have not so technically we have two contracts that represent our Solid Waste and Recycling so elel Harvey who you are aware of if you participate they pick up and collect Solid Waste they also pick up and collect recycling with solid waste they bring that to a separate facility that we have a contract with called wheel abor it's an incinerator we're under contract with them until 2027 it's actually Collective Community contract there's about 20 uh communities in a in a contract that's been in place for over 10 years that is a what we refer to as a tipping or tonnage contract so that is controlled so that's the one factor that we can predict at least to 2027 and that's a contract that's actually at this point in time very very very advantageous to us so when that contract expires we're in panic mode but El Harvey is the programmatic approach so they take our recycling Commodities and they bring those to their facility and we have cost sharing Revenue offsets so about 10 plus years ago when single stream recycling started to become popular across the Commonwealth well really ac across a lot of States recycling Commodities actually had a value and we would receive funding back to off at the cost that's no longer the case China's not buying our commodity it's a global you're talking global commodity market so now EO Harvey picks up our Recycling and they charge us a tipping fee or a tonnage fee for our recycling based off a monthly commodity market so one month glass may actually bring in into the black we may may make money while Plastics are the opposite and then the next month maybe somebody's buying Plastics and they're not buying gas but in average that's about $9 a ton on our Solid Waste we're actually you'll never hear anybody no one's everybody would get mad with what I'm about to say but it actually be cheaper for the town to take all the recycling and throw it in the trash because our tipping fee for our Solid Waste is $73 a ton so it costs us more to get rid of recycling right now than it does tonnage but that's only because we're sitting on this long grandfather contract that will most likely double when that time comes so our Serv our hauling and service contract we're trying to line up to sunset at the same time as our tonnage contract so at that point we could have options to either split contracts like we currently have or to have one centralized contract that may be more competitive if someone is also able to secure the tonnage that may be a conversation but what most large municipalities are dealing with is actually the tonnage fees that they're no longer on long tonnage contractor and that's what's driving up the costs because facilities like wheel abor are being policed and shrunk and squished out landfills are capped closed and we are railing out Solid Waste to other states and those States will close their caps and they'll stop their facilities and we'll go further and further and further away so there is an issue in regards to that so the T force is made up of significant technical experts and we are also looking at our program to reduce our solid waste so education offsets Organics removal outside of our tonnage so that we can reduce the overall efficiency and Effectiveness which has a financial Financial concent oh boy it's been a night Financial uh aspect to our contract and reducing it over time so yes we're exploring multiple options and that that's why it's taken so long we're not thinking about the now we're also thinking about the future I hope that answered that in a nutshell oh was good yeah thank you um we're uh you know we're working on future planning so I'm kind of wondering when we might see like bumps and spikes in different parts of the bud yeah I would say FY 26 FY 27 when it comes to solid race and recycling so if yeah if anything no matter what when we change those two contracts typically when you have a contract change you have a spike at the end in Sunset of a contract to a new contract that's when those vendors try to recapture lost revenue from a contract that may have been advantageous to the previous service contract and everybody does it they do it across the board whether whether we go away from the har and and say um Republic comes in they're going to they know what the previous contracts are that's the beauty of freedom information act everybody knows what everybody pays so there is a conversation to be had that they know roughly where elel Harvey is and they're going to try to make their revenue if that's if that's the conversation piece so we will see a spike no matter what we saw a spike two years ago when we changed our and nothing's changed but our contract sunsetted and we went right back to El Harvey there was a spike in the costs do you know about how much that Spike was I want to say 15 150 to $200,000 so like maybe about a quarter of the budget uh well it's about a million dollar budget rough oh okay for the whole okay okay yeah so I think of for for financial modeling um Nathan I think a percentage is probably going to be more accurate because things tend to scale multipli multiplicative instead of on an absolute basis so I have a question about so um we're a part of the Black Earth compost um Community here in mayard and I know the more people that um are part of that the lower the fee is for residents and they've been working on that are there studies done that show the more people that sign up for that particular program the less usage like trash and um does that have any you know correlation oh absolutely Kitty so there's a direct correlation so if you're unaware dp's policies are looking to um ban certain substances from going into the waist Street mattresses and textiles were the recent if you can remember that we launched the textile recycle bins and that we have a mattress recycle program or a curbside collection but we can no longer take bulky items that was banned from the waist that was again take a bulky item that's your highest level let's get that thing right out of there that's hundreds of thousands of pounds a day um Organics is actually what D is targeting next um they do audits of the um of wherer and the local dumps to see what residents of Massachusetts are throwing out and um within their Master plans and I'm talking about the state's uh Master plans they look at incrementally removing aspects to reduce overall Solid Waste Organics is a target the issue is Katie Black Earth compost is the only Pony doing it so so again it's this they're great though they come every week and they're very reliable they're they are great so we did I actually approached them um two or three years ago to see if they wanted to contract with the town of Mander to provide the service but they don't they actually prefer to just be a preferred vendor a lot of it is The Upfront Capital they have to put when you have a large service contract for a community and they're the only game in town so they prefer their business model is what they approach and that's fine I do know that they just built a brand new composting facility I want to say was in box bro um because they're having issues now because they have they have so many customers they're now having issues with site so they do it does take time to compost all that it's not just hey throw it in a pile and next year you get you get Black Earth um and that's heavily regulated by DP as well so if you're unfamiliar with Organic breakdown it's a lot of phosphorus a lot of nitrogen which inhibits or restricts waterways so even though we think we're doing a good thing when you concentrate something you create a bad situation for the environment so um we are exploring that but I will tell you this um there's not many if any municipalities that provide Strictly Organic curbside collection as part of their program if anything they're doing what we're doing which is U we promote Black Earth we endorse it our sustainability committee um Works diligently to educate our citizens we have volunteer committees such as green Maynard if you're unfamiliar with green mayard that really pumps that out there as well um so that's kind of the Avenue we're taking just education it helps offset the cost as a whole and I think that will hopefully get pumped out there a little more when we make our programmatic approach that's great thank you I would love to say that if we had a facility to house a composting location that's something that would be great but we don't we're literally the River cuts through as ofet and we're phosphorus ridden so technically I'm supposed to close off a bunch of storm waterways that go to the river but 98% of our storm system goes to the aset so so we're uh I live right yeah yeah we're in trouble when it comes to that so it all goes to the river yeah makes sense I have one last question about Solid Waste um when I go to like Market Basket and I pay $4 to get a sticker does the town see all $4 dollar of that or does the vendor take some percentage from that so the company like so Market Basket Russell they get a very very small percentage I want to say it's 10 15 cents uh per sticker that they receive as revenue and that's about it other than that the stickers are just town manard and the seller so wherever you buy the location seller and that's about it thank you a lot of a lot of our vendors like to have the trash stickers because it's a draw for other aspects so if you're going there for trash stickers you're typically going to buy groceries or if you're going to Russell's maybe you're buying something else but that's it's a good draw for them they know that everybody needs trash stickers so it's not about money for per se all right does anyone have any other additional questions about sort of current going on I have two questions about future things um I did want to touch base I didn't I sent it I sent out the water memo briefly before this meeting so I'm sure that not many people have gotten to see it um but I did um want to highlight that that is a resource um that has been shared with us and I think that we're all pretty well aware that we can meet the average demands currently unless the largest one which is Rock goes down yes but that so is that the capacity did I send you the capacity memo or did I send you the memo on water rates I I write a lot of memos I can't remember which one I you sent me the one on the capacity so not the rates yet and that was what I was going to circle back on yep so just so you're aware just for the finance committee's um understanding if you go under the DPW uh water and sewer page you'll already see all of my memos for the upcoming rate change that was already approved with that there is a significant amount of material that will all be PDF so you can find all that information very easy right now that memo for capacity was based off I want to say Jillian you you posed the question in the email was just more for like future growth so like I stress um in regards to the PowerPoint presentation of solid waste that memo was only good as the day it was written meaning those developments were presented at that time and that's when we ran that analysis so we will be running another analysis um probably in the next month or two as some of those developments are no longer looking to do what they anticipate and some have looked to change their approach but overall holistically like high level Jillian yes we can meet our average day demand operating our equipment at 247 which is very very unwise so technically we're meeting our average day demand but we're maximizing our equipment which is degrading its lifespan so it is not a not a great approach um and it is something that we've been doing for about 101 15 years um if we were to lose our largest treatment plant yes that means you would not be able to turn water on that's what that means literally you wouldn't be able to turn your water on um so when we look at Future growth and current capacity um there's multiple ways to look at it but in high level just know that when you hear developers or developments talk about units we have to dive deeper than units so if someone says Hey I want to build a 200 unit complex uh Stratus I actually need to know the bedroom count because on average um it's 110 gallons per day per bedroom and that's the the games that sometimes we play with develop velers Technically when I say we I mean the Department of Public Works and the planning department work diligently for what we like to refer to as sustained growth so mayard Crossing we not sustainable so 115 Main Street 246 Powder Mill 42 summer before that that's sustainable growth that's something that we're investing in capacity and our timeline is being met well developed are also growing what we're nervous about or what we cannot support is these major development changes things that the state of Massachusetts is jamming down community's throats outside the 128 belt they've already jammed it down everybody's throat within the 128 belt that's why Walt him's no longer a town so but that's starting to hit that 128 belt into that 495 area so if you looked at Massachusetts you know kind of does one of these so everything within that 128 495 belt starting to see that urban sprawl and there's issues there for the town of Maynard singularly our issue is 100% our water capacity and our AB our ability to produce enough water to meet the average day demand and Peak day demand um we have just recently we're finalizing what has been a seven-year process for a brand new groundwell source called 4A and treatment plant up upgrades to incorporate that new well source and I don't know if any of you go to any meetings but you'll hear me say this and I probably said it over a hundred times that groundwell source is strictly the capacity that was required for mayard crossing so they built it then we had to come in and backfill it we didn't build that and now we're saying hey we can handle another mayard Crossing we're technically went backwards um so we're at a point now where we're finalizing that and it's on boarding it should be in full operation um by Spring we're uh we're targeting about 90% completion at this point right now but the last 10% has to do with chemical treatment processes and like I say it's like fine-tuning your recipe so you can bake a cake and then at the end it's all the all the sprinkles the toppings and that that's the minutia it takes a little while so when you're talking about chemical compounds and treatability issues in regards to like onboarding and back filling our distribution system which you're if you're unaware we have three treatment plants we are not tied into a regional system we're not tied in anywhere we have a a hard connection to act in that doesn't work um but we're not on mwa we're not a water water district we are 100% our own water producing um utility we have three treatment plants and within those three treatment plants we backfill our distribution networks meaning we pump out of the ground we treat and then we push it through the pipes that actually connect to your house the mains and everything and they push funnel back into our water tanks and then our water tanks provide gravity back that's called a blended system so there is complexities to blending three different treatment plants within a system to make sure the water quality all matches so that's that 10% factor of where we're at but without going into too much of that detail Jillian our next phase is Rockland Avenue which is we have a four-phase water capacity Improvement uh master plan within our water utility uh phase one is well for a and the treatment plant which is almost done and we'll be moving towards our phase two approach which is new well sources at Rockland and treatment plant upgrades and modifications um and we're starting that process we have been lucky to receive an earmark from Kate Hogan um for $400,000 to start uh piloting and permitting at Rockland and we are also in litigation with past manufacturers so we should see a um roughly hopefully anywhere between two and $4 million um payout which seems like a lot of money but it's not it's better than nothing but unfortunately uh to treat past we're looking at anywhere between 10 and 15 million per treatment plant but that litigation funding will help us move towards um our water capacity plan and we'll have to talk about treatability um as we start to implement that that process we have already designed our treatment plant four which is the the treatment plant currently out under modification to handle a past system uh meaning we flanged it um and prepared for an extra treatment process there but we couldn't afford 1015 million on that project that this done um but as we move forward Jillian the conversation of growth growth is 100% tied to Rockland our future growth what you'll see as residents within the town of mayard within the next five or 10 years is directly tied to the ability to execute phase two Rockland AV treatment plan upgrades and new well sources there is currently a well there that was piloted um when Rockland was um going through its design process at that time there was enough well sources to feed the treatment plant we have since lost the well there um over five years ago so we're exploring the the last opportunity well and we also have um we have property there that we're going to explore for expansion of well sources that treatment plants designed to produce 1 million gallons a day it's our largest treatment plant and it's running at .33 million gallons a day okay so we're looking to maximize its availability and treatability which is why it's phase two it's actually our quickest turnaround so we're hoping to capture roughly anywhere between another. three to 0.5 million gallons a day somewhere in that location around Rockland that would give us the availability for sustained growth and conversations of Redevelopment such as Stratus such as um what you're seeing in act in powdermill place things of that nature which bring in significant New Growth they bring in constraints don't be uh don't be fooled by the sheer fact they do bring in New Growth but they also constrain services so it's a balanced a balanced approach when you're talking about New Growth and how quickly you want it um but yeah Rockland AV which we're hoping and we're on task at this point right now from anywhere between five and six years if we can expedite it we're hoping to move that process in four years but permitting takes a long time with theep um and also cash flow takes a long time we have in four years positioned our water and sewer utilities financially to be the most secured they have been in multiple Generations which allows us there was there was finan IAL gaps where we couldn't execute design where we couldn't even execute permitting where we had to wait an entire fiscal year before we could even move and that was the Gap that has put us in the position today to not maximize growth so um on my last rate hearing with the board I explained to the board that in the Department of Public Works realm and large scale infrastructure Realms we work in fiveyear blocks so we design our IP in fiveyear blocks 5 10 15 20 25 and then when we at 25 we plan for 50 75 100 that's just what we do in our our world because we design infrastructure and Facilities that have a life expectancy of that of that magnitude but within our within my time in main we have executed our first fiveyear block which is Phase One within phase one we also executed a significant amount of operational increases resource increases and have brought our department full circle which has also resulted in the sheer fact of reducing our average day Demand by recapturing water that was lost unaccounted for we did that and we've actually dropped our average day demand which now allows us to have a conversation for larger sustained growth within that four and fiveyear window we' have been highly successful with also recapturing Revenue without adding a customer we had meters that weren't reading properly we had a lot of issues in regards to our Revenue stream for large scale commercial this was all due and tied back to our limited resources staffing we had a DB mandate and we had a staffing plan that was executed over five years and we're now seeing the results of that which was an um which is a revenue share of last fiscal year of an excess of $250,000 without adding One customer that's a significant amount of money found through auditing we've also reduced our um average day demand from 77 million gallons a day to 68 now that doesn't seem significant but I will tell you that's a 100 unit development so that right there when you're talking about New Growth or the allowance or why you may see in one breath me hesitate to allow for large scale projects yet we continually are approving 115 Main Street 246 pound a mil and may entertain another smaller situation is because we're making efficient and effective approaches to our operation which is allowing for that growth and when we're talking about the town financially we need new growth this town does not stop spending and there's no slight on that but there is in my four years I've never seen a budget cut outside of a minor budget adjustment um and that has it's not changing so if anything we need to secure more re revenue and that comes in the the sheer fact of economic growth and Redevelopment and the potential of New Growth so our biggest pinch point or our biggest hindrance to allow that is our water capacity which I believe the select board is working on at the highest level as is the DPW it is our main goal our main objective don't get me wrong Katie I'm going to pave your road but it's sadly secondary in regards to our water capacity April Justin it will it will we have chapter 90 funds but unfortunately our F our focus is hyperfocused to this because I get it yeah New Growth allows for the conversation to be every Department seeing increased uh funding mechanisms and reinvestment everywhere else but this is the pinch Point holding mayor back and we are making strides um we have been very successful over five years and we're hoping the next five years will allow us to have conversations for the next 20 and then phase three will allow us to have conversations for the next 100 you always want to get to a point as a community that your infrastructure isn't the situation holding back the community's wants and needs and unfortunately in mayor that is it in other communities that you see strive or grow that's because they get to choose to and their infrastructure isn't holding them back so if they want to be X that's the conversations they have but it's not really a conversation of can we support it so when you drive around common with the Massachusetts and you see highly successful communities growing exponentially it's because their infrastructure was in place Maynard has the ability within our geographic location to be something unique we already are unique but I will tell you this if you look at our surrounding abing towns they're very small they do not want growth they fight it Milton's not going to be the first one I wouldn't be surprised if conquer fought them the uh uh M excuse me the um oh God the new zoning why why am I drawing the blank on this um the NBTA zoning restrictions um you're gonna have communities that don't want growth Maynard has the luxury of being that micro-urban situation where it's supported we have a downtown we want to revitalize that how do you Revitalize that well if you bring residents businesses will follow um if you bring in the need and you have a situation we have a location that allows for that we just have to enhance our growth again it's the sustainable way not just open the floodgates and everybody come in and just build whatever you want it's more of a sustainable growth it's also not getting in the way of it which mayor has a tendency to do over the past 101 15 years and I wouldn't say it's man it as a whole it's because the Sher fact of their infrastructure and they didn't want to necessarily build it so they can come we're at that point though uh fiscally that we need to start to have that conversation which we are and we have been for the past uh few years um and we're definitely in a good situation we're trending in that situation moving forward but unfortunately for your water sewer rates they're going to continue to go up we've just designed our rate increases to be sustainable as well so that we're not looking at capturing 50% in a year that's uh that's not sustainable for our residents and our customers either so yes we're on track at this point so thank you Jillian for bringing up the timeline this may have to be adjusted a little bit so when this went into play um Rockland AV at the time where are 2023 this is back from May I think yep so we're we're trending on track for well for so in 2020 2023 we're about a year behind well for improvements finalization which pushes Rockland out so it should technically say Rockland so if when we update this it will say Rockland starts in 2024 2025 and the reason that it ends there is because we don't know how long the perming will take at that point that's the piloting process so until DP gives us an estimated timeline on their permitting process we can't give you an excess date beyond that and or borrowing and bonding capacity I will say Rockland phase two will be somewhere in the range of our weal for a for improvements anywhere between 10 and5 million to capture that um those new well sources and treatment plant upgrades and that will be over the course of 2024 to roughly 2027 2028 so is is that something that would need to be bonded absolutely absolutely we don't have that kind of funds we Bond and within the water and sewer uh utilities our operating capacity is in the $100,000 range uh we have retained earnings that we could squeak out a $200 $300 ask as you'll see you know every couple fiscal years um but we can't handle multi-million dollar projects outside of bonding now just be aware we do not rely on General taxation to offset any of those bonds they are 100% offset by the Water and Sewer bills and we have a long-term financial plan when we have debt fall off we try to start to build back onto it so that we don't have significant Peaks so a lot of that project timing also has to do with our financial uh strategy as well uh so Justin you you touched on this um already but so you mentioned Milton for example mil Milton's pushing back I mean maybe it's that they don't want growth they're claiming they don't have the support structure in place to meet the MBTA men mandate so let me ask you um do we have the infrastructure to support the requirements of the new MBTA zoning uh State zoning law so for the Target location that the planning director and the planning board have identified was in collaboration with my office so it's the the the old Stratus location meets the MBTA zoning minimal requirements for the town of mayard every town has a different requirement based on their location within the MBTA system and their population jobs Etc so do we have the infrastructure that's a very open-ended question we have the roadway right of way infrastructure to handle traffic loads in that location it was always designed to house thousands and thousands of employees so that is we have the infrastructure in regards to rights away we have the piping infrastructure so water mains feeding that location we have sewer collection system infrastructure so the collection system of sewer leaving that site we have a pinch point of our powdermill sewer pump station but that's already a high-risk area currently can that be upgraded absolutely can that be upgraded for $3 to5 million absolutely if we saw a developer come in of the magnitude of 400 500 units we would look to secure a massworks grant for roughly three3 to5 million for that sewer upgrade that would solve that issue so from that infrastructure we're good from a water capacity infrastructure we are not able to handle four 500 units of multi-bedroom mixed use now this goes into a theoretical conversation just because the zoning would change to allow for buy r does not mean that the utility has to support it for water and sewer so technically it removes a hurdle for a developer and it puts the defensive onus on me denying them as the water and sewer director within our water and sewer regulations so our local regulations so the Z zoning does not guarantee you Public Utilities it only guarantees you the avail ability of building X within that parcel so I go back and I don't know how much I know Peter and Julian been around for a while with with me now my previous position was in the city of Malo for over 15 years um we saw you know I handled significant growth patterns large scale Urban environments but there's an adjacent Community if you're unaware it's called Berlin and it's right by the Solomon Pond Mall if you if you've traveled to the mall before Within berin that rotary that's connected close to 290 at one point used to just be a masonry supply chain and Farms Spooky World used to be over there for any of you that were local um Berlin is a community that does not want growth they are a farm town and they want to be a farm town they were threatened with a 40b and for them they allowed the 40b to go at the edge of town which was literally you could practically say it's Malo but it's Berlin they allowed that large scale apartment complex that you see now and they also see a hotel Berlin does not operate a public utility meaning Water and Sewer malro denied the availability of our extension of water and sewer to those developers so yes they moved forward with their 40b but they had to tap their own Water Systems they had to treat their own Water Systems they have a water tank for uh pressurization and they have their own wastewater treatment facility that goes into a septic system if a developer were to place something X in a zoned environment and we can't handle it from a public utility and we denied them they could potentially go in that dire so I think that's the best way to understand what the MBTA zoning is so there's pros and cons the con would be losing grant opportunities mayard relies heavily on grant opportunities in four year I four years I've secured $8 million worth of Grants that we half of our infrastructure Improvement is is Grants if not three quarters so that's a hard conversation to have we also have the luxury of a corridor that was already previously designed to handle these kind of loads it's just our water capacity when we're talking about meeting with developers the first conversation in pre-application is they get an introduction to me and they get an introduction to our water capacity usses um and then we we provide um a recommendation I asked for their loads immediately typically that's not done until they start a design development I ask for it at schematic design day one um just so that we don't waste their time and they don't waste our time and that our capacity model and memo stays as up to date for our stakeholders as possible um I and currently supporting the planning board's movement of this passage because I'm also seeing what is happening to Milton the state is not taking it kindly I could give you my personal opinion I will tell you it's not right to force policy in this manner but it's not something that's in my control I also don't want mayor to lose out on opportunity for something that we can still manage um I think think the larger conversation here is for all of you to talk to your local legislation about forced policy and its repercussions on your finances because it's not coming with any Revenue it's not coming with anything outside of the share fact of a penalty if we don't adopt it there's not hey the second you adopted here's an extra $10 million there zero funding mechanism coming with this so is it going to be contentious I want to just point out if you all are looking for any of these memos there you can find them here in the water and sewer area Y and then honestly off to the left you'll see a whole bunch of other things too so you'll see our P fast tracking you'll see our lead service line identification these are all policies as well that come with very minimum resources when it comes to funding so but in essence um currently our capacity we have some control Kevin um and that control really falls on on our shoulders locally um and the board has made it very very known there was a large conversation after our rate hearing about this particular article and the board's hesitation to adopt it but just reminding the board of our rules and regulations and our rules and regulations for our water and sewer are very strict we adopted that on purpose for control mechanism and that sadly that's where we'll fall I'm sure I'll get beat up for it but I got big shoulders so we'll make sure that everything gets done appropriately and our customers have sustainable uh utilities moving forward um I will say the current owner of that parcel has been somewhat amenable to the conversations it is not we have only been threatened by uh 40b once um but the developer knew that they can threaten it all they want but we don't have to guarantee public drinking water or public sewer and they didn't want to entertain the share fact of having their own well Source treatment plants and wastewater treatment plants another honestly you can even look to your neighbor so technically Sudbury all their downtown Redevelopment that Whole Foods they're on their own sewer station and septic Sudbury does not have a wastewater treatment facility so you can have growth they're just not guaranteed to have utility but as I told the board there's opportunity here so let's put our business model cap back on in order for us to sustain all four phases of our water capacity we need customers 43 C 4,300 customers can't keep taking on this burden of rate increases anywhere between five and 10% a year so if anything sustainable growth will allow for us to take on customers scales of economy should hopefully curb that as we develop and get back into a a nice cyclical business Model cycle we should be able to take on customers invest take on customers invest take on customers invest and I'm only telling you that from the utility but as we take on those customers they have new growth general fund they have service requirements which could be operating budgets over here that could see a downsize but as Peter talked about at the beginning apparently we need children in our school system like hey we need apartment complexes so if that's a conversation piece these are all that that sustainable growth G that's what we're focused on I also point out that you you probably have fixed costs in your oper fixed costs uh in your operations that could be potentially spread out across more customers where we to bring them absolutely we're a siloed utility we have three treatment plans that's a poor design three treatment plants for 4,300 customers so we're talking about three plants using electricity using propane offsets they're running at half capacities the this is a very inefficient system you can't change the system overnight this is a 100 this 100e system but we can look towards maximization and that's what we're trying to capture here so if you notice phase one was one treatment plant well maximization without going to a point of overexpansion fa phas two is our newest treatment plan phase three the conversation of phase three is mwa which is a buying commodity which removes the potential for a third treatment plant and then you have two treatment plants you're operating and you're blending a commodity and then maybe over time as one as your next treatment plan ages out you do another financial analysis and if the commodity is appropriate you buy more commodity and you disposition another treatment plan and that's a conversation that you know you we won't see I'll probably be retired by that time but the plan can be set and that's where a lot of the communities are pushing back with M uh the MBTA zoning we're not pushing back but if the state wants to solve one issue they're sadly being siloed when they have another issue they can resolve which is water capacity across the entire belt we are not the only community that is dealing with this with outside the 128 belt and the Massachusetts Water Resource Authority is throwing away 21 million gallons a day down the drain and this is literally a situation where State yes we have a housing crisis okay yeah you did really good with your Economic Development we have a great great business model now we need to house all of our workers I would be in full support of saying hey let's open up zoning if we had a pipe feeding us there wouldn't even be a conversation we'd probably see another 5,000 residents and we'd all be sitting much happier with a spread out Taxation and a spread out water and sewer bill and a spread out Solid Waste and Recycling bill but the states failing to solve the problem they're only isolating on the policy approach of housing so I will say there's a lot of communities in my position Kate Hogan's well aware Jamie we're all pushing against this a little a little bit but we're not pushing back we're pushing for bigger conversations solving the overall problem not an isolated issue I think I've said this before in Prior meetings but I I I have of opinion that we should leverage 41b to argue for MW to argue for you know these infrastructure grants that like you know I mean I would tell you know you're probably already doing this but I would tell Jamie Eld Kate Hogan straight up like yeah we're accepting development but we can't give them we can't give them on our public utility because we are stretched thin and they know that 100% so they they push larger conversations um unfortunately again M uh MW was designed for Boston was designed for 100 150 200 year growth but that sprawl is going outside of Boston and unfortunately they didn't plan for the sprawl in advance now they're reacting to to it and they're only centrally focused on housing um because there's a housing crisis they'll hopefully hear it enough from all of us and they'll start to move that infrastructure Bill and they'll start to resolve that issue um it may start with communities that are attached to the MBTA zoning we're the ones pushing back with the utility issues we're the ones pushing back with the infrastructure constraints so I think it's starting there and it's going to eventually come to a boil I actually I'm very happy that Milton's going through this process not mayard I'm very happy that Milton's going through this process they have big pockets they need to start to bring these policies to court that's part of The Conversation Piece here if and until you have a little push back you think you're doing the right thing the governor's office's policy thinks they're doing the right thing until people start pushing back a little bit with alternative views oh did you did you think of X did you look at this well you were imp ing that and sometimes court cases bring that out so let me let me ask you in your view because I know I know we can accommodate and we can be in legal compliance with 41b albeit we' would have to deny we might have to deny Public Utilities to new new development would it be helpful for us as a finance committee to draft a letter to our state legislature saying that look we could be in compliance but we're denying utilities and we're bumping up against physical restrictions like we can't deny we can't invite people in only for them to go thirsty because we can't give them enough water cin I encourage every stakeholder and every board to have discussions on the repercussions of policy and statute that affects your day-to-day lives and what you do in your volunteer roles you know you are are the ones who care enough to show up to a meeting without being paid to do this work it is affecting you your letters hold more than you think is there going to be a response probably not but just assuming that doing nothing is going to solve the problem is not the right way either um I always encourage everybody to reach out you know the part of the reason that we have Kate and jamy show up to those trib or meetings is so that they can hear M's issues I will tell you Kate is fully understanding I talk to Kate quite often we try to solve a significant amount of issues because the towns she represent all go through very similar situations that Maynard she's such a direct neighbor too like she's on the border of mayard and Stow so close yeah but I mean sto's going through P issues their P issues is singular well sources ours which is a a water utility Hudson goes through capacity past issues she is well aware of all of our issues and it's actually something that we try to regionalize and have a conversation with and I I will say that we we make strides it's hard to quantify but I will tell you we do we've been awarded a lot of a marks to at least move our water process forward the issue is the state's not going to give us aund million to build a new treatment plant for 4,300 customers just not prudent for them um $400,000 is a lot of money before we receive zero if we can at least move it forward like I said phase two Rockland out somewhere in the 105 million range allows us to have long uh not longterm but shortterm development growth opportunities and with that hope hopefully helps resolve some of the scales of economy which then can attack p when that changes which is a large upfront cost and eventually can invest in more opportunity capacity and again Drive zoning change which drives density which drives New Growth we're we're heading in the right direction I think we've been having a really robust discussion I do want to do a time check here and not keep Justin too long tonight um so I wanted to sort of reach out to Blackboard I know I don't want you to have to have another you know right after the the Daylight Savings Time change that would be pretty rough um so you know I want to be mindful of that too we also have a couple other uh items here we only have three more meetings now actually unless we make a a special meeting um before we have to send uh Greg our written recommendations for all these articles too so um I did want to touch on some of the other articles tonight too because there seems to be quite a few on the ATM agenda this year but um but I did want to Circle back if there's any pressing questions I did just want to throw it out there and I know this might be sort of like a bomb to end on but you know there is also the garage that is I think in the capital planning it seems to be estimated around like about 23 million right now um that is something that would also be required at some point in the future um I'm not sure Justin if that's exactly been in that priority list I know the capital planning committee has sort of a list every year they recommend XYZ um yeah so I've been so it's actually been it's been documented for over 10 years for the DPW garage to receive a significant amount of Capital Improvements unfortunately over the last 1015 years they've received none um we've add to uh close down one of the facilities which is uh 1900 that's actually a little earlier than that but we can't find the dates on it 1900 uh pump house which was housing the water department it's currently condemned right now and it's off limits um for liability insurance issues um we were lucky to receive oper award to conduct a DPW feasibility study which is what we're moving towards right now $200,000 thank you Kate and um within that study as you're aware we just recently conducted a feasibility study for the Green Meadow School it's not as cumbersome as that it's a facilities feasibility study we will explore the current facilities um um current situation in regards to um all of its aspects such as structure electrical mechanical etc etc etc also its functionality we'll also explore uh the opportunity for modifications on site or we're also going to explore uh separate locations for a new facility if you're unaware of that site's facility we're literally on the river we're in a flood zone we have the only Diesel and gasoline tank that Services all public safety actually Services the entire Community when you're talking about your services and it's underground in a flood zone so there is a significant amount of issues with that site reusing it for a DPW garage um so we're also exploring alternative locations one of them being private property and one of them being public property um the feasibility study will ultimately end up with a um analytical approach towards Next Step which would most likely be schematic design or if it's a situation where it's private property it's a conversation of eminent domain or taking which is you know not uncommon when you're talking about a public facility and its it's change in location right now honestly Jillian the estimated costs are what the current market is for a community of our size and a service department of our magnitude so if you're unaware you hear me say that the mayard is a small town but we provide every single Public Works service that a large scale municipality would there's not one service we don't provide that a municipality wouldn't actually I could even argue that we provide more services because we operate a golf course where most municipalities don't even do that um so with that we have significant constraints um that have to be explored but yeah that's been in that's been in the list Jillian for years the issue is it's been in there for multiple different Capital requests now it's a singular approach okay and do you know how long that study is going to take like when we might be able to expect yeah less than year information from leser yeah this far quicker than a um msba educational study we don't have to look at student population things of that nature our operation is easily predictable model um we're looking at more of like a site it's really a site review like a site plan more than anything it's not looking at an operational model it's really looking at what our projected growth pattern is for a town but we're not really growing when you're talking about public rights away we're not building any more roads if anything you heard me say we're going to go vertical we're not going horizontal there's not really an infrastructure expansion if anything it's an infrastructure replacement so our operation isn't going to grow it's more of making sure that our operation meets um the services of today and the services of tomorrow um with a facility that's um not at high risk that meets Public Safety aspects our facility services all the public safety aspects of the town so okay that's very helpful thank you you're welcome that was all the questions I had tonight uh were there any other like warrant articles that um like Justin could comment on I know there was one about changing the wording so that um any like additions to a house like any additions currently it it has to be approved if it's in like the water Zone and they want to change it to only being in zone one um do you do you know what I'm referring to yeah that's that's for the planning board but just be aware that so our so it's a Wellhead protection Zone um our Wellhead protection zones are mandated by D they're defined by D and they're defined by the sheer fact that's part of that when you hear me say permitting and piloting of new well sources ground Wells are uh researched across borders across parcel lines it's hydrology you're talking about aquifers so there is a large environmental study that goes into the sheer fact of pulling groundwater out of the ground around and using it as a public utility and those zones if you if you ever go on our GIS you can find there's an overlayer of our Zone 2 protection areas in our Zone one Wellhead protection areas it's really defining or meeting Mass General law um so this is really capturing mastering law or upsizing it um but that's a conversation with the planning department but for us we have a significant amount of development already in our Zone 2 this is this is one of the issues we have with treatability is we have a very very dense Community sitting right on top of our oers um so I mean I realize this is mostly a planning board issue but you don't have any particular opinion about them not no longer having oversight on zone two no because it's mandated by DP okay yeah my understanding is that they this is just saying that a special permit is needed when adjacent to a water supply when you want to build something so that just puts on restrictive approaches that they have to go through planning board my my understanding from reading it was that they were like reducing the requirements like currently it's anything in the water supply Protection District and they're saying that that the change would make it so it's only Zone one of the water supply Protection District is that is that Z zone two takes up probably about 50% of our community um my understanding from what Greg said was that it was always meant to be just Zone one and that it was the somewhat you know unclear bylaw and that this is just clarifying the bylaw it's not really changing what we meant by the bylaw yeah I'm not sure on that part I'm a little lost here in all my screens so I'm going to stop sharing um yeah I mean if there's specific questions I can send an email to the planning board um they did come and talk to us on the 26th of February um and this was one of the Articles we did talk about so but we had not seen the draft of the article at that time so if there's lingering questions I'm happy to pass them along okay are there uh any more questions though for Justin because I do want to be respectful of his time and he's been here for two hours so I'm almost set thank you Justin for answering our questions in detail and yeah thank you course if you guys have followup yeah if there's followup questions just email Jillian Jillian you can email me I'll try to get the hopefully you'll get the draft articles um tomorrow um again they're all pretty cyclical drought there's nothing crazy this year from at least from DPW great thank you night thank you all right thanks Justin all right um okay so I think oh shoot I think we can jump back to uh our agenda here so our next um item is just talking about the town meeting so and some of the draft articles so I forwarded those to everyone uh the ones that I have so far and uh I also put them this is board so I also put all the ones that I have here on board docs and this is um this is a outline of all the different articles from my understanding and what department is going to be uh responsible for sort of writing the sponsor comments or you know sponsoring the article um so I don't have all of them yet but we have uh all the way from A to Z so there are a lot of Articles um and as I said before we have until April 9th which is two more meetings um to talk about these to vote on them and to write all of our comments or recommendations so sort of you know the couple sentences under the fincom recommends or does not recommend and why so I could use some help so usually what we would do is people would have certain interests in certain articles and um um you know we would sort of split them out so not one person wouldn't have to write the recommendation for all the Articles I'd be happy to work on you know a bunch of those I think I having seen like how it like worked for a special town meeting I think I like understand what it's it's supposed to look like um yeah like once once we vote I feel comfortable write doing like a write up for you know other people want to like to write different sections and split it up um great but yeah just throwing that out there Jullian were you thinking people would draft it and then we would talk about it or we talk and then someone draft it um so I think what we have done in the past is that people sort of draft them based on the feeling of the the commit a lot of these are going to be straightforward so they're going to be um uh what do you call it routine plate so a lot of these routine yeah so we might even be able to just use what we had written in the past um after we sort of look at the actual article themselves um but you know like we always get transfers for ambulance receipts we always get you know certified free cash appropriation like there might be specific questions about what it gets appropriated for or some other things but a lot of these articles are ones that we see sort of every year you know obsolete M material um I was sort of curious because the debt exclusion is still on this list and this is the list I got from Greg last week um my understanding is that article is is not on going to be on this docket so there might be some shifting or changing in these which is also highlighted in the fact that they're still letters and not numbers yet um so once once it gets closer these letters turn into numbers um I think right article one two three so so do we want to diby up um articles tonight to work on that I think that I think it would be good if we have at least um it seems like if I can math right which doesn't always happen if we get like three or so articles per person I think that'll divide it almost evenly um between seven people that math yeah so so if you want it could be helpful to sort of go through these I might bring them up in a different thing I can actually write on uh uh I can stop sharing or I'll just share it here and I think I can write it off screen but um is are there articles that people are sort of passionate about um so I I do have I do have a list um okay and you know this is just you know what I feel passionate about uh I do think article e needs to have a note about the use of uh one-time funds to support some operational costs uh particularly on the school they are using they're drawing down they're running a deficit on their activity I believe it's their activity fees funds um to support operations so they do not have to do s uh drastic service Cuts this year but I do think we need to include a note on article e um explaining to town meeting voters that this is setting us up for possibly a surprise possibly a a either a big increase in taxes or a big cut in Services next year so they should be aware of the long-term implications at article e all right uh if we scroll down the other thing I think we need to note for is the you know I feel um I think we need to talk about the stabilization fund um I think there's you know I have some thought I I am not not 100% on board with that yet um but I the um not the assabet stabilization fund article R okay I'm like which one are we talking about article article R uh establishment aset Valley Regional Vocational stabilization fund um that what I have you know I'm not 100% on board with that yet okay um and the rooster law I have one yeah which one is that it's o oh okay that one you know I'm not 100% on board with you know I okay um so those are those are the ones that I I I have some controvers you know I think there's some controversy ambivalence about that I think I need you know I I want to work through but I do have some possible objections to those or possible caveats I should say on the budget are there any of these that are in a finished form that we could vote on tonight I think we have to wait for the final list before we start voting in case they decide to do like a last minut I'd be very surprised if most of these get any of these get pulled but I think we should you know not act not vote on something prematurely until it's actually official so we have in the past when there's still letters um and not necessarily numbers so uh the only issue is that I think on the agenda I put that we were discussing I don't think I explicitly use the word vote and I don't know if that's a problem I think you have to indicate in in in the agenda whether a vote is possible or not so you could say possible vote but if you didn't do that then we may matter yeah I going back to my days I remember there like the school committee does a whole Code system on each item in the agenda so yeah we're not we're not I'm not that deated I'll put that from we to I so um yeah so okay I'm gonna I'm gonna stop sharing I'm going to share a spreadsheet instead with or we can actually edit live so um and I'm taking notes if it helps Julian okay uh let's see yeah so I think I think right now it would be helpful if people want to volunteer for this that you can sort of identify if there's anything that we're missing that we can get in place for our next but it sounds [Music] like all right so it sounds like having your interested in e um e o and r i mean the general budget one I think is more of that's the biggest one and I think should be more of a group effort um and I agree potentially we don't even include it because we're still I mean that's the biggest article and on the one most likely that we may or may not have ready um so just yep we just got the certified free crash appropriation so I just forwarded that shortly before this meeting so um so to back things up at the next meeting I invited aset to come so that will be one of the major topics and then the other topic will be this um the ATM articles so is the idea that these will be written up like before the next meeting or we'll write it after we start voting on it okay yeah I mean if you want to start writing in the past I've done some like this is yes and this is no but I feel like having the discussion as a group really helps make the writing part easier so like if you take notes while we're talking then it pretty much writes itself um but and if we're not going to assign them all tonight we can you know talk about them next time but I can also look at the ones we've written in the past and sort of pull like for some of these ones that are sort of um come up often what what has been written in the past and sort of make a draft document that people can have on hand just to see what what it looks like um I think you've been you've been through a couple Cycles now so I'm sure that you're you're getting the hang of everything too so I'd be happy to do the DPW ones because we got a lot of information on those tonight there was like k k l and l and is that msba the golf course yep the golf course is s so but then there's a bunch there's the retained earning ones too the T andu that's like there's a lot of articles but I can I can just look at those they're probably not those probably aren't very difficult so Jill is going to do I can do the Zing or planning board ones yeah and W um CAD Sor jul Z yeah I can do Z yeah I can do the Zone one of the zoning or two of the zoning Jill if you have too much to do so yeah that might be helpful because I'll I'll blow up all of the stuff we've done on the past articles um yeah like w and okay and x [Music] uh yeah if you want do you want me to do the two ones about the guns the V and the the X and the okay I if it matters yeah and I can do MBTA communities if I uh find something written well enough okay what Prett um we got I think this is cancelled I think this is not happening right um the public shade tree one sounds like Nathan you read that one pretty thoroughly that is that an accurate assessment sure y happy to write that one up um okay uh yeah so then we just we sort of have um I'm actually not sure what this article is msba reimbursement payments is that a routine one Peter no that's isn't it think to do yeah that's the state is giving us their share you know like 50% of what was the cost of the feasibility study I can do that one I read it wrong okay when we voted to fund the feasibility study we took half of the cost out of the general stabilization account with the intention we put it back in there when we got the money back from the state I know there's been some discussion of repurposing that to Capital stabilization or I don't know but if if there's an article to put it into General stabilization I guess that's the decision yeah there's no sponsor there either so this this list might not be finalized this was the most up to-date one I got on Thursday or Friday last week so I'm sorry Jillian did you send the list around also I'm not finding it in my email uh I think I sent it around with all of the Articles themselves the copies of them I think um but if I didn't I might have made a mistake but I can definitely send this this list Excel list around sure yeah I don't I'm sorry I don't see I see a bunch of articles but no list it's not on the body oh I see the list is in the email I'm sorry I didn't go down and look at the email okay that's fine um and then the ones you sent I guess on Wednesday March 6th that's all of them that exist so anything that's all that's all I have yeah okay so the free cash or the retained earnings ones for water and sewer don't exist yet that's correct right okay just double check it yeah I only have 11 of these articles which is like a bit less than half even though they were due a week couple weeks ago so um so I think obsolete equipment is pretty routine that's like probably a copy paste um the free crash transfer to General stabilization we might want to look at and just see what they're proposing which just came in today I think I just I literally sent it before this meeting um so we didn't have a lot of time to look at that yet [Music] um so I think most of these other ones are pretty routine but um it could be helpful to have someone double check and see you know for the community preservation fund you might want to see how those are split versus they how they've been split in the past it it looked like there were specific calls in the community preservation fund um I'm not sure if that's kind of like if they always have that but um like there like some specifically historical studies that were being called for yeah they have a process um where they go through um an application process and they sort of talk about all of the people requesting the different funds and then they award certain funds so this article is their proposal of what they would like to award this year is my understanding so um yeah so I mean if that's something of Interest I can write you down there um it's difficult because a lot of these people sponsoring the articles are people that I go to their meetings for but I really don't want to write all the Articles recommendations um I mean I'm happy to write an article I'm happy to write for like any anything just after we've had a vote and discussed about it okay so would you like to do the community preservation ones and then that'll be your three sounds good Julian I could take FNG G I think those are pretty copy paste standard yep okay all right um Peter you want to do the free cash ones p and uh uh sure or do you have any feeling about any of them doesn't matter no I'll do whatever um although yeah I mean since we talk about them transfer wait what were the ones P and H P is transfer free craft to General stabilization and then C is certified free cash appropriation for 2024 I think that's a duplicate what was the other one certified fore s like should find though uh transfer free cash to General stabilization yeah it might be yeah well one is transferring it to stabilization and one is appropriating it uh same thing oh it is usually it's part of the appropriation we'll do you know 50,000 as general 20,000 to OPB stabilization and something to Capital and then it's you know snow and ice and then Capital Equipment okay yeah I I don't think they'd be separate articles but maybe I'm wrong I don't well no when we actually see an article I know it's a little it's a little scary that we only have two meetings left and we're supposed to write all of these by then and vote on them it's a little ridiculous I know but I also think I think we talked about this before but I think there's some potential pushback that I don't know why the heck they have to print the warrant so early doesn't seem well if the Articles aren't ready they certainly won't be printing it early so right um all right so J is routine a is [Music] routine I don't know is B and D is B we messed up something so this is like we owe money somewhere um I think that's a placeholder and I I think they put that in as a placeholder every year last year there was one I don't know if there is one this year or not last year was the Verizon one yeah yeah yep okay and then salary Administration plan I think that's pretty routine that's routine y so I'll see what we got for the routine ones in the past so I can send this out uh so thanks for thanks for jumping in everybody that is very helpful and much appreciated so I will save this I'll stop sharing so these are the Articles we have um currently uh I know that it was a little bit a little bit late but are there any questions on those articles do you want me to open any of these These are the let me show this screen again these are the ones that I actually have so the town acceptance is pretty um that's a routine article obsolete that's that's routine oh these are different lettered than um is it worth doing a quick update on the General on the budget um just out of the um just because it's an article here and um out of the budget subcommittee meeting yes okay um as people may recall and um Katie correct me if I say anything that's really wrong but um there was a deficit but when Greg presented the town budget in February he had made assumptions about state aid and one other thing maybe the asbit um number um but there was a deficit even in that budget once you put in the new state aid numbers of something about 150,000 um Greg has essentially made that up by cutting the health insurance appropriation um and you know really that number always has a little extra room in it um which then contributes to free cash it's always one of the biggest contributors to free cash each year um and it gives us a little extra room for unexpected stuff with health insurance um similar to the schools spending all of their you know kind of revolving fund money this year we're cutting or Greg is cutting any extra money in that employee benefits line um and you know we should anticipate a lower free cash number because of it um it's also um you may remember from June when we did budget transfers at the end of the year often a source for those budget transfers is you know room in that uh health insurance line we will have less room in that health insurance line for fy2 five um but that you know essentially is how he's making up for the having less state aid than we thought we were going to have um I I think that's the basic update out of the budget subcommittee so that sounds right Peter and we don't vote on if the school does take from revolving funds that's them to decide yeah correct okay y okay and I think it's important to note oops the employee benefits isn't necessarily cut I mean it's still going up but it's going up by less than what was in his original budget if I recall correctly yes ABS yes y all right so this is what I had from from that meeting as updated numbers yeah [Music] um yeah so we're going to have aset come next time and can I ask a question about um on the budget the budget that we just did in cutting health or not cutting but pairing back on health cost to balance and it looked like in the peer in the PowerPoint on the peer comparison that we were we were very high on fixed costs mostly from benefits and was there any discussion on why we seem that seems to be an outlier for [Music] Maynard um as a deliberate strategy we provide better health insurance benefits than many other towns okay um so to I I I won't get the number exactly right but um you know I don't I think we're like a 7525 where the town pays 75% of health insurance and employees pay 25% and I think other towns are often 5050 okay all right so that's why we're relative high so that's a strategy to whatever Improvement yeah because it's like 20 20% of our budget 20% of our budget is um is that the chart you're talking about well our budget is like 50 million and about 10 million's going to that cost and we're well ahead of our our peers and neighbors well ahead anyway not not for this year but to look at longterm yeah that that is also my understanding that the six costs are higher to offset the potential salary differences I don't know if that's Accurate Way it it's also per capita and you know if we're like a smaller like town that has like all of like the services like uh Justin was saying that might account for why that is so high but the peers were similar towns Nathan the gry bar is Sim similar size towns this is something that Jeffrey swansburg made from the select board yeah so the issue is if you look requested DS but um actually this is a perfect one can if you can make that if people can read the mayard line there um there aren't a lot of peers to mayard and to me it really is that population density number um that we the the towns that department of local Services lists as peers don't have our you know semi-urban aspect um so they also differ yeah they also did a little bit of magic math from what I'm understanding to make sure that the school districts were matched so they were single districts rather than like conglomerates so that also is why some of these are labeled as peers where other ways they might not be as similar and something I also talked to um to Jeff about with in these comparisons is also considering my understanding of the system is that we have a lot of people who are in senior positions like they have been here for a long time they've been invested in the system um you know they've they've given value to the town for many years which means in like the step system I think it's called they also could potentially be higher up in the step system rather than like a newer teacher or a newer staff member um so that's also something to consider too is that their their cost like their salaries might be more mature um compared to some other towns too yeah and the schools it looked like we were heavy on admin but this was it was this was really interesting to look at see our Administration costs were H were really kind of peing there yeah and this is something that Jeff is trying to he would be able to explain at best but this is something he's trying to understand so between these different towns and benchmarks and you know the state average so yeah it seemed like in almost all of the comparisons the bench marks sort of looked like the state average um in most cases but not all cases so but this is something that he was talking about at the budget subcommittee meeting so um Peter you'd pass around a spreadsheet that had like the itemized accounts for all the different departments going back to like fy17 and there were really detailed records for the school from like fiscal year 19 through 22 but the FY 23 and 24 it was like all Consolidated under a single line item um is there any reason why we like lost that visibility that you aware of um no uh it's it always starts that way and then the school committee takes the entire appropriation and you know essentially tells the town how they want to divide it up um that yeah I would argue there's actually not any visibility in the town General operating budget and even the line items that you know there may have been more detail in some years that's not really what you want to look at though um we did get a school you know equivalent to like the general fund budget um last year and if I haven't shared that I can do that um if I can find it um yeah I think I have make you a host here too yeah now I don't know is this this stupid presentation um I don't know that we have the fy4 version of this um but I'll email what I have for the line items that you know it really gets into school by school detail um on don't go there um so I don't know if you want to look at that that'll give you way more detail I don't have an FY 241 yet um oh actually sorry I got a better one oh all right um I guess I did put it together combining the [Music] years be on the second email um anyway so you look at that and that you know you can tell a little bit more about what's going on in each school and the various positions and did you send it out to Jill to distribute I no I replied to everybody's email or I replied to one of Jill's email with everything on it my email runs through Norway so sometimes it takes a while for it to show up I see it it made it to my inbox all right there's two of them so okay oh yes gabo okay but actually Jillian um if you as the chair wanted to make the request to the school committee I'd love to have that fy4 line by line detail again and then I'll add it in to the multiple year thing um yeah I don't think I got that email yet so I'm not exactly sure what spreadsheet okay you'll yeah when you see it um there's one that comes you know with all three of the years separate 21 22 and 23 and that would be the kind of thing they should be able to supply for y 24 all right I think I think my email's tired so maybe it'll come tomorrow yeah yeah I don't know what we need deal with it tonight yeah I haven't seen it yet but I'm sure that I'm sure that the town email is just thinking about it it's making sure you're not spam you know you're pretty [Laughter] suspicious all right great so opening the wrong thing here yeah so I think that's that's great we sort of touched on the Articles um so thanks thanks for going over those and and volunteering to talk about those we we slipped into routine agenda so we've started talking about other other agendas from like the budget meeting so that was really helpful also for the future planning so thanks for sharing that or sorry the ATM article planning for the uh general fund budget uh are there any other I'm I'm going to propose that we skip talking about the future planning scenarios unless anyone has made any new ones um so to I have not personally so I really don't have anything to present for that category uh so I'm unless anyone really feels oppressing me to talk about future planning I think we got some good future planning discussions in with jus to learn about some of the upcoming uh future infrastructure needs tonight so I think we have talked about that um and learned about some of the upcoming needs and uh I think that was very helpful so I think we cover that topic tonight but if anyone feels there's anything we missed let me know um I would I would propose to maybe start talking about routine agenda so um we didn't get prior minutes but um Kitty you said you'll get those so we'll have those for next time uh Linda is doing the minutes this time so thanks for that both everybody appreciate it um um are there any other oh uh I'm going to jump to updates from other chairs chairs and other members um I have a couple updates uh I did want to share on boarddocs um I also put it on there too o hold on I gotta take I got to take meeting back from Peter uh reclaim host okay got it all right so updates from uh chair and members I did want to share that the select board got a Q&A from the school about the the field the bleachers um so this will not be an article for the ATM is my understanding but will be for the special town meeting the STM later this year and this covers a bunch of questions that we were actually asking and talking about in one of our prior meetings when it was still on the ATM article so it goes over you know if you change what the capacity is how much is the cost and you know reducing it how much you going to say so this answers a lot of the questions that we had so I think this is a very helpful document so this is on board docs I did also email it to you all uh at some point but sometimes it's easier just to find on board docs um and it sort of talks about you know if we wait to delay it what will be the cost if we delay it so it it looks like it'll be about $50,000 to delay it so that'll cover you know attendance at additional meetings and some updates to the plans I guess so um and my understanding is there is a meeting in the fall it should be covered it'll be timed well you'll have the ballot vote with the general election vote so we won't have to spend money for another vote just for this topic um it also had some estimates of you know attendance at other games and things like that so this is a pretty helpful document um to go over uh if anyone had any questions on that um we can you know invite them uh the school uh at a future meeting uh to talk about it when it gets closer to special town meeting uh or if there's any you know breaking Sensational news about that topic um I think that that was an update I also did want to let you know that uh we do have a cleargov do login now so if this is something that you would like to play with on your own um let me know we only have one sign in so uh so if you would like to use this I can send you that information um and this basically covers the capital planning so if you click on the capital planning um you can see in cleargo this is where they started to put everything so that you can see all of the town's Capital requests um you can see them by Department you can see them by year um so this is the capital planning committee looking out the next five years um and this was shared um by them to me and you can see it sort of by what type of equipment if it's a building if it's water sewer if it's you know other equipment and when you click on something like uh we're talking about the golf course today um it gives you a description saying like why is this necessary um and then it gives you an idea of you know I don't know for all of these this isn't always filled out um I think the most important thing is giving an idea of what the total budget is and then this description um and then if you look at like all requests these are these are some of the requests here so you can read all the all the requests like all of them and then there's also like comments in here too so um I think scenarios and Report Builder are something we're not subscribed to as a premium feature so I don't I'm not aware that this account can access those um but this is this is a tool that we can now look at uh and if you would like to look at it let me know and I will send you the login information because I don't think we all have I think you pay her account so this is like the fincom account does that mean like one person can be logged in at a time or that technically we shouldn't be all okay I think it's just like a one person at a time kind of deal but um and Jillian it looks like you have read only access so someone in capital planning is correct you cannot accidentally can't mess it up please don't let me have any ability to mess this up because I don't want to do that to you so it's read only so my you can make a comment is my understanding um but I don't think you can delete anything so or change any numbers which is great so I'll stop sharing so uh let me know if that's EV interest to you so that gives us an idea of that it could be helpful for future planning I can also pull it up while we're in future meetings if we want to look at Future planning um and uh I did want to let you know that there is potentially going to be one of these other tri board or joint meetings um between the school committee the select board the finance committee and the capital planning committee people are thinking it might be in June uh and the main topic is going to be capital so like future Capital um the the DPW garage the bleachers the senior center the water sewer infrastructure all that kind of stuff so just to give you a heads up that that might be happening in June um and I did also want to let you know on April 1st at 7 pm in person and remote my understanding is the GRE metto School building committee is having a public forum to talk about the status of development um um for the new school so um but Katie might know more about that than I do but those are I think the updates for me any other pressing updates anyone wanted to mention I'll just say I attend the senior center committee they're working very rapidly as you as you said and so they have a track um on just how to how to fund the thing they know they you know they can talk a lot but they want to um have some proposals for funding and just they're just you know the rough estimates are you need about 5,000 square feet at roughly $25 a square foot so that's where they came up with the 100 to $125,000 if we lease um you know they haven't really there's a possibility of long-term I think the the sense I get is they would like long-term not a lease building but a permanent building um they mentioned already an override for next year as one possible way of um of uh financing Senior Center but okay thank you for sharing all right are there any other updates [Music] from anyone El all right uh I will pull up the agenda for our next meeting which is the 25th [Music] um so our next meeting is going to be on the 25th um I have invited the assabet Valley Regional Vocational School to talk to us about their budget and that stabilization fund warrant um article discussion uh and potentially voting um I also put as the ATM recommendation drafting voting um I think I'm going to I'll leave the updates and future scenarios on there but I don't think we'll have time to talk about them honestly um given that those are the asmit valley is is a pretty big topic and depending on how many articles I have for us next time those two will be pretty big topics um so and then the next meeting is April 8th and our written recommendations are due on the 9th so it doesn't give us a lot of time to um vote on everything and write recommendations so uh in the past we have had some contentious articles where we made recommend um at like in like a later printed pamphlet that didn't make it into the the printed warrant so like it was sort of like an insert into the things um so it's preferred that we try not to do that um where possible but I mean I think this this year we're not having a lot of a lot of luck getting articles on time so and I haven't heard of any citizens petition warrants which I don't think are due until much later so they're not due until business P petitions are due March 21st so um we should potentially hear by the 25th if there were any um but we won't necessarily have a lot of uh turnaround there so and our public hearing is on May 13th so um it has happened in the past where if we can't get everything together by then um by the time that they're due in in written format that we can also vote on them or uh on the floor or say our recommendation reason on the floor too but I would try I would like to try to get everything written that we can by the 9th of April to try to make as much as possible into the printed warrant so so I'm just awaiting um confirmation from affet Valley to make sure that they're actually able to attend um I Heard a month back that they could um but I just wanted to confirm before I post this meeting officially so once it is posted I will circulate around the zoom link to everyone so sorry just to just to confirm is the idea that at the next meeting we will vote on all the Articles and then we'll we'll after that we'll write we'll each write our uh recommendations and then at the following meeting on April 8th we'll review those drafts and like vote to approve them and submit them the next day for the deadline that is the ideal plan yes cool but it is it is a lot of Articles to vote on in one night so we might not vote on everything um on the 25th but I'm hoping we can at least discuss it so that the person who volunteered to write uh the recommendation can sort of write a recommendation based on the temperature of the committee all right and Jullian if we needed another meeting would it be April 1st that be between those two or is there any other time yeah think unless we meet on not a Monday okay okay which I think be pretty untraditional but it would be April 1 and that would be yeah so what we have done in the past is we can meet on the 25th and see how that meeting goes if we feel that April 1 meeting is necessary we can decide that as a committee as well um that's why I tried to invite some of the key people to talk to us about the Articles before then so um you know if for example we think there's a big question about like free cash or some appropriation from the general fund you know I could invite Greg to come on April 1st or something uh and talk to us about that like I think it's also important to make sure that we don't have any questions or concerns about the Articles themselves too um because the writing part will be pretty straightforward once we we're all aligned on the topic I'm not as worried about the writing part I'm more just making sure that we fully get and get dig into the article and we're able to explain it in such a way to the town voters to fulfill our responsibility so and I think part of that responsibility is really trying to get it out with the printed warrant so that gets mailed to everybody's house so if people have questions or concerns they can kind of see what we've you know the couple sentences we wrote about the article they might read that maybe more than the article itself you know the recommendations that the sponsor and and the fincom writes all right that that is all that I had on my agenda today so does anyone have any other topics or shall we entertain motions I moved to adjourn I'll second all right so Linda has moved and Nathan has second to adjourn at 9:53 p.m. uh I will take a roll call vote to adjourn so Katie yes Peter yes yes Linda yes H yes Nathan yes F yes all right great thank you everyone uh I am also yes uh I will make sure to vote so um so our meeting is now adjourned um and we will see you all on the 25th