[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] a [Music] e [Music] [Music] n [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] he yeah [Music] please take your seats the meeting is about to begin please stand by we are going on air in 5 4 3 2 1 good afternoon welcome to the March 19th meeting of the land use and sustainability committee um Mr attorney let's do a roll call good afternoon Mr chairman uh commissioner Dominguez here commissioner Suarez Vice chair bot here and chairman Fernandez here you have a quorum thank you Mr attorney today's meeting of the land use and sustainability committee will be conducted in a hybrid format with members of the committee physically present in the temporary commission Chambers at the Miami Beach Convention Center and staff and members of the public appearing either in person or virtually via Zoom to participate virtually members of the public may dial 888 47544 N9 and enter the webinar ID which is 8505 9923 037 pound or log into the Zoom app and enter the webinar ID which again is 8505 92223 037 anyone wishing to speak on an item must click the raise hand icon and the Zoom app or D star9 to participate by phone Mr director with that are there any withdrawals to ferals uh on today's agenda yes Mr chair and I'll go ahead and announce those um item number two which is a discussion on the Sixth Street overlay is being deferred and will not be discussed today item number 10 regarding a proposed ordinance establishing the Century Lane and fery Lane overlay on B ale has been deferred and will not be heard today and the following items are on the agenda as deferred um discuss item 12 is a uh potential commercial Charter vessel operations and sanitation pump Outlaws eviden in compliance with appropriate sanitation laws number 13 is a discussion regarding fpnl storm secure underground program and opportunities to identify the city of Miami Beach neighborhoods that may be eligible for undergrounding of power lines through the program item number number 14 are incentives to retain and rehabilitate historic buildings item number 15 is amending landscape requirements in chapter 126 of the city code relating to palm trees item number 16 is discuss uh is a discussion pertaining to proposed amendments to chapter 46 of the city code pertaining to Heritage tree designation and then finally item number 17 was withdrawn and that is a discussion regarding a proposed local technical Amendment to the Florida building code with that uh let's uh with that let's do a motion to set the agenda with the listed deferrals including the deferral of item number seven and number 10 and the listed withdrawal is there a motion to set the agenda I move it okay it's been moved second the agenda has been properly moved and second by acclamation we can set the agenda my intent colleagues is to take the remainder of the agenda as it's been printed uh starting with the priority items and then with with the rest of the regular items uh with that Mr director let's introduce item number one okay item number one is um a discussion regarding a proposal to convert The Clevelander to a residential project with no outdoor entertainment thank you with that this is an item that's been placed on the agenda uh by by our City attorney um you can be seated I'll recognize you at the appropriate time um Mr Mr attorney this item has been placed on the agenda by your office uh I'm going to recognize you to to to introduce the city attorney's memo and then we'll call on the interested party thank you Mr chairman this item was referred by the by the city Commission on uh January 31st and was placed on the agenda at the at the at the request of the applicant um the subject of this item is a proposal by the owner of the C ER and the Essex hotel properties to convert the properties into a uh long-term residential development um and abandon the existing conditional use permit for outdoor entertainment if the city commission adopt uh certain uh code amendments which which are which are summarized um in the term sheet and those code amendments would would provide for um a number of of changes to to the to the Land Development regulation including an increase in height and an increase in the zoned floor area ratio of the of these properties um the term sheet also references the construction of a pedestrian bridge between the Essex House and the and the Clevelander hotels okay perfect thank you very much nick uh and I see we have members of of the applicant team uh here I'm going to recognize members of the applicants team uh for a presentation for for 7 minutes um what I'm also going to do is uh after the applicants team has an opportunity to to to present I'm going to open up the floor to members of the public uh I I have made a point in this C commmittee every item coming to the committee we open it up for for public comments and then we're going to bring the discussion back to the de uh so colleagues can ask questions of Staff uh ask questions of of the applicant and engage in our own discussions on the matter with that uh Mr tashes you have seven minutes thank you very much Mr chairman and Commissioners good afternoon uh for the record my name is Alex tmas I'm a lawyer at shuton bone and I represent the jesta group which owns The Clevelander and Essex House hotels joining me today is Anthony O'Brien senior managing director of jesta Anthony's based out of Montreal but has flown down especially to be here in person today the fact that there's 6 Ines of snow probably didn't didn't hurt his desire to be here also joining me is our architect Kobe karp So today we're here to address the term sheet that is included in your agenda package that sets forth the principal terms of a proposed settlement of all the pending issues between the Clevelander and the city we're asking for your approval of the term sheet today so we can proceed to draft a definitive agreement with the city for review by the City attorney or in the alternative we're seeking your approval of the term sheet subject to the planning department meeting with us to examine the massing study that we've included as an attachment to our term sheet and to delve more deeply into the specific project earlier this year I approached City attorney Rafael P about the possibility of a global resolution of the matters between the Clevelander and the city the main items are one litigation between the Clevelander and the city that dates back to 2021 regarding hours of alcohol and music the lawsuit has been inactive for quite some time but still remains pending second issue is a live local application we filed on October 23 2023 to build a little local project on the site of the Clevelander and Essex properties the decision to file the application resulted from our client deciding that after fighting with the city for many years it was in its best interest to change its use and establish a residential project with hotel and upscale restaurant shortly after submitting the application to the City the planning department sent us an email claiming that it could not process our application because our application allegedly did not comply with the city's F cap and other zoning requirements we disagree nonetheless because of the city's position our application has been sitting for five months without processing and that again is an open issue between us and the city lastly in response to comments over the last few years from City representatives and neighbors regarding the clevelanders outdoor Barn entertainment venue whose occupancy exceeds 700 people and is the largest one in Miami Beach is Ocean Drive we would permanently abandon our cup for outdoor entertainment and close our establishment in connection with this settlement per my discussion with the city attorney an item was placed on the commission agenda like Nick indicated and received a 7-0 vote which brings us to where we are today uh and now I'd like to present Anthony O'Brien who is a short PowerPoint president presentation and then happy to take your questions thank you Alex um just to confirm I saw the clock start at five minutes is that a hard time thing or I'm gonna add two two minutes at the I can be an Auctioneer if you want I can go really fast but it won't be to everyone's benefit um thank you for your time I really appreciate it Mr uh chairman and Commissioners um having a dialogue on this topic is very important to us I know it is not the easiest discussion I know it's somewhat controversal IAL I know it's bold um but we truly believe that transforming our property which is the most iconic nightlife venue in South Beach into a high-end residential development is going to be transformative for the neighborhood we believe this is the Catalyst that the neighborhood needs to stop the decline of what we've seen over the past decade or so and create a more balanced neighborhood between residents and tourists um we don't have all the answers today but as you can tell we're working very hard to try and find a solution um that respects all parties all groups and probably most importantly the Heritage building the infrastructure that we find in this uh iconic neighborhood so with that I'd just like to take a few minutes to talk about our company and uh the way that we actually got here so I've got a few slides um Justa group is a international family-owned business we focus mostly in real estate development so we're not your typical nightlife owner uh and in fact um in our assets across North America and Europe most of our assets in are in historically sensitive neighborhoods um so we've got a lot of background and experience uh in that type of context and this is a project I've shown a few of you before this is my baby I spent the last 12 years on on it in Old Montreal um this is a million square foot development that integrated an historic Chateau and train station with a modern office residential and hotel uh complex it took 12 years because we worked with all Community groups the city province and federal government to get this done some of the things that we did um of note if you look at the White Tower that was actually a white polished concrete which is the same material that was used 200 years ago and the clock tower in the in the background was built the upper bar building is a zinc building which is what they built Church rooftops out of in the 1800s in the old city and the lower bar building is a brick that you can only find in France comes about five times the price of a normal brick um but that's what we use to try and incorporate into the existing neighborhood um with the actual plan that we've uh presented for live local I know at the beginning we created a bit of controversy because we started with a 30-story tower we hired Kobe karp and his team to analyze this he created this rendering and Kobe was the first to say might be a little bit tall for the context of the neighborhood so his team put together a context study of heights within the neighborhood what you see here in yellow is everything above 300 ft blue everything above 200 ft and pink is 100 to 200t so there's context for height within the neighborhood of Miami Beach and within the neighborhood of Ocean Drive so with this we voluntarily designed a project at 18 stories this was the actual submission we provided to you under Liv local that is a rendering of the Liv local project Tower in the context of Miami Beach and the local area and after we made this submission we decided let's go and start meeting with um uh nebor neighborhood groups uh and basically stakeholders in the area to understand what people felt about our project um Kobe did probably a dozen more massing studies and after showing everything everyone kind of landed on this one which was splitting up the massing into two uh buildings to lower the height and this is two 12-story towers that Kobe then went and analyzed further and built them so that he designed them so that they'd be perpendicular to the ocean uh so the narrow side is what you would see along Ocean Drive as you'd walk by this version of a massing study respects the setback which is 25 ft off of Ocean Drive but it creates a much smaller footprint for The Clevelander Tower to get to the F that we need and this is a really important point and I for some it's straightforward others it's not we have a very profitable nightlife business that's worth a certain amount of money in order to close that and open something new or build this project we need a certain amount of value to replace that business so there's an f and a square footage that we need to get to am I okay for another minute um so this one respected the setback but it created a tower that was 180 ft on the Essex side and 150 ft on The Clevelander side which is 15 stories and 12 stories we wanted to keep it within 12 stories so what we're proposing is decreasing the setback so that the frontage of The Clevelander building is only 5 feet off of uh the property line and it's still in line with the historic facades that we find on Ocean Drive under this scenario we can build two 12-story towers these are the perspectives from each angle of those Towers um and of note the most important factor here is that neither of them touch the historic structure of historic Clevelander or historic essics and in fact by going condominium they not only celebrate the historic structures but they're going to preserve them in perpetuity based on that ownership structure under this plan it wouldn't be affordable housing it would be a luxury hotel on the lower floors with a high-end restaurant and then under that brand we would drive the sales of the residential units on the upper floors now when we talk about context within the neighborhood the issue today is that it's it's a very subjective discussion talking about massing and setbacks and height and facades and colors um and that's why you know it's great that in the city of Miami Beach you have a very talented planning staff that we're hoping we can work with to help design this project together to make sure we do something that's right for the context of Miami Beach and I think for those people um that have concern over the height that we're proposing this was not designed in a vacuum the tides hotel which is two blocks north of us is 159 ft tall it's 10t taller than what we're proposing the colony uh I think it's Colony Towers or whatever the apartment building is right behind Essex is a 12-story tower it's the same amount of stories of what we're proposing even The Old City Hall I believe is 130 or 140 ft so in our opinion the context of height and massing makes sense and it's more a question of the facade uh that we put on it uh in partnership with the planning staff that's all I have to say thank you very much thank you Mr O'Brien um with that uh We've concluded the applicant's presentation what I'm going to do is I'm going to open up uh the public hearing now to members of the public wishing to speak on this item and then I'll bring the discussion back to the day is for members of the committee that may want to ask questions of the applicant and engage in our own discussions so with that members of the public wishing to to speak uh please stand at at a mic at the microphone and I'll recognize you and I'm going to start virtually uh I see Ronald starkman has his hand raised so you have two minutes to speak Mr starkman you're recognized thank you and also thank you to um Alex tus and his client we giving some of us the opportunity to see this in advance and give our input um there's no doubt that Ocean Drive needs to be fixed though um I came away from the presentation with a number of questions which I hope you all will have answers to on the de before you decide to go forward with this I want to say that I'm I'm representing just myself Miami Beach United has not reviewed this nor sof no so the first question I think is most critical is is is more presidential the answer to the problems on Ocean Drive or are there zoning incentives that could be put in place to upgrade the commercial that's there um the second is that this project you know involves two modern 12 story towers and the question is is the impact on the postcard view um worth the benefits from eliminating the the outdoor bar which is is a problem a few weekends a year particularly uh and perhaps also because of the type of client that's there so uh and finally will in that point will will the incentives get will will other residential projects if that's the a good thing be incentivized to come on board or are they limited with constraints that this project doesn't have and finally is you know if the city Den not does not approve this will the live local project go forward uh the city attorney's office knows what their hand it's in their hand I'm sure they'll be meeting individually with you Commissioners doesn't need to be public um but if there if this is not something that can will happen then I think probably we this would not be our first choice for for uh the skyline of Ocean Drive thank you Mr starkman uh Mitch you have two minutes good good afternoon uh when I arrive here in 1988 my neighborhood was a thriving residential Community primarily uh I like the idea of bringing a strong residential component back to the neighborhood as far as this plan is concerned we need a lot more information I am specifically concerned with the uh Amendment to the zoning code allowing other entertain venues with a capacity of 300 persons or more to also uh propose some projects similar to this so my question is why is that there and should it be there uh uh which uh my concern is with it being there it could open the door for uh many or a few others to take advantage uh of uh this unfortunate situation we're in thank you thank you I see no other members of the public please if you if you wish to speak please line up behind the microphone I see no other members of the public via Zoom with their hands raised uh good good afternoon hi good afternoon uh my name is Andrea spanakos this is the first time I'm speaking in public in this type of thing I'm here on my own accord I'm a public citizen I've lived in Miami Beach since 19 97 when I moved here from Miami City Ballet um so three times the height Allowed by law 3.4 more F uh this would never ever pass if the voters were allowed to vote on it as we used to be able to you guys know that but since last July when s718 was passed Tallahassee said that we no longer get to vote on F we're actually uh prohibiting I think was the word from voting on F so now it's in your hands and this is your first big test and this is the reason why I'm here today um it's Ocean Drive it's the Front Street if you let it happen to this street you're going to let it happen to any other ones what if the next place wants to go three times higher than what this one has or the next one wants to go 3.4 times more density than this one has we're going to be at 1,000 feet in a couple years and I'm just letting you know that I've seen the city go up I've seen the city go down I used to be here when it was a thriving uh public nightclubs I have no problem with nightclubs the city had no problems with nightclubs so maybe there's other ways you go around it rather than totally changing our laws because we don't want one nightclub and I personally think that this will be a nail in the coffin for Miami Beach you're going to privatize the most iconic public strip in the United States yeah there's Rodeo Drive but there's Ocean Drive and as it stands now the way it looks we are technically eligible to apply for a world UNESCO heritage site because of architecture if one building like that goes up it's done we can't apply for it so I just want you to know that I believe you'll turn it into a sleepy town it's open to the public it's Lively and it's our Gem and it'll be destroyed so thank you very much I appreciate your time thank you uh I see Mr Jack finglass has his hand raised via Zoom Mr fing glass you recognized you have two minutes good afternoon Commissioners um I'd like to make just two points uh first jesta is a proven good player in their projects all over the world and I look forward to a project which will be Stellar from them but Extreme Caution should be exercised in negotiations between the city and the developer to ensure a successful lowrise sensitively designed project that this is a beginning only we will follow this project strict strictly and with great Vigor thank you thank you Mr finglass good afternoon please state your name for the record you have two minutes thank you Seth Weinberger 1500 Ocean Drive I'm speaking as an individual resident not as a board member of soie safe which has not made any uh recommendation one way or another on this project yet uh first of all I want to thank all of the Commissioners for what has been in the best spring break so far in a number of years everything that you did um worked out really to plan and we really appreciate it but it needs to be stated that that is just the beginning of a number of things that need to be done to transfer the mxe into the artco Cultural District that we all believe it should be um in order to accomplish that there are still six or seven business businesses on Ocean Drive that their business model either needs to be brought completely inside so their noise uh does not spill out into the street or they need to be converted into a different uh business model The Clevelander is not only at the epicenter of the noise and this party uh business model but they're also the most difficult one to bring inside obviously because of the open air nature so it is imperative if we are going to actually Elevate Ocean Drive that we do something to um redevelop The Clevelander so I'm not here to talk about Mass height the way it looks um that that's up to you but I do urge you as as strongly as I can that you do negotiate as good a deal you can for the city for our postcard for preservation but also to get a deal done here thank you thank you Mr Weinberger I'm gonna uh next speaker is going to be Sandra Skidmore then we're going to proceed with Julie isacson and with that we're gonna close and and then uh Daniel Caldo and with that we're going to close the public hearing so uh Sandra Skidmore you're recognized for two minutes okay thank you good afternoon my name is Sandra sidmore and I've been a resident of Miami Beach for 26 years um I uh understand that the um person the the group that's proposing this is has a good track record but I have some concerns um about the infrastructure um and I believe a study should be required to see how um this intense development would affect Miami Beach um parking um residential use uh distribution of development I'm also concerned that this is going to have a huge effect on the postcard view of of Ocean Drive by tripling of the height and I we're world famous for Ocean Drive and I would like to um have a development if we're going to increase size that would you know keep our post card view um thank you thank you Miss sidmore uh Julie you have two minutes uh thank you good afternoon everybody good afternoon welcome I hope everybody's well with all due respect to uh Montreal I absolutely adore that City spent much time there and uh I think your project in Oldtown is beautiful but I don't think that uh that's apples and oranges we're a completely different city um Montreal is huge and sprawling we are a very small area to put gigantic buildings out way out of scale on Ocean Drive and completely destroy the post postcard view that's been mentioned by several people already and also with all due respect to the gentleman from 1500 Ocean Drive The Clevelander was always a fun spot the cultures changed a little bit the music changed a little bit it got a little bit louder but that doesn't mean that it can't be brought back to uh its original fun place uh I uh often dream of taking the day off and hanging out to Cleveland it hasn't happened in 20 years but it's still in my mind but to be serious we don't need any more construction around here and especially in that area Ocean Drive and Collins Avenue can you imagine how many years we can have years of construction years of dust in the air years of environmental destruction it's p probably the worst place I could possibly think of to put highrises if there was some we appreciate the difference to the dark uh structures the Essex House specifically and of course the iconic Clevelander which is almost at historic right Daniel I don't know if it got there yet years in in the terms of years but there it's just not acceptable to have that kind of height and all of the construction and destruction of our environment during in in in in that in that thank Youk thank you so much uh the next speaker is going to be Daniel Caldo and with that we'll close the public hearing welcome Daniel you have two minutes thank you commissioner Daniel Caldo here on behalf of Miami Design preservation league first of all I think uh the good things that came out of this is that we've finally met our neighbors across the street so that is always a positive one of the many good things that have come out of this is we've been able to have a conversation um we've met several times with them about their proposal um including last week while I was in Italy we uh did a zoom with our board and advocacy members about the massing proposal so where we're at now is that we unfortunately do not have a consensus on the massing we have some significant concerns we think that require some further scrutiny the overall size and its impact on the not only the historic district but the structures within the site whether it's a ESS by Henry ho Houser the annex right next to it or The Clevelander and and The Clevelander Bar um we have concerns about you know the zoning was 50 feet and now the proposal is 150 feet um and there's not a master plan so this is sort of like a spot uh situation um we also with the Advent of the safe structures bill which is likely to be signed into law we have to remember that the Art Deco district was Exempted because we're on the national register and that any development that is incompatible will risk our status on the national register so unfortunately another consequence of Tallahassee takeover is that any development now will require even more scrutiny from this commission to make sure we don't lose what is so valuable for the district questions about infrastructure uh the use of the property whether it could be one day pre Ed or whether that zoning would now be in place for the rest of Ocean Drive we don't know we can't really trust right now the zoning practices because they're getting preempted so we think further discussion thank you Mr thank you so much thank you to all the members of the public who have uh called in on on this issue um I'm just going to I'm just going to state for for the record my my thoughts about this you know I had I had uh planning staff do do some research for for me and before I get I get into that I I do want to just Echo something that that Mr Caldo just mentioned which is the state law you know Tallahassee tried to pass a law that that that would have circumvented allow allow individuals to circumvent our historic preservation codes and for two years we fought uh and we fought and we convinced them of the importance of the araco postcard that we have have an Ocean Drive and they realized how important that postcard is to our community to our identity to our image but not just to our image but also to the economy of Miami Beach to our region and even to the state with the amount of dollars that go back to Tallahassee through the tourism that is attracted through that postcard and so I'm going to be very sensitive to anything that drastically changes that postcard that we have an an Ocean Drive and and and I and I believe that anything that we do needs to be consistent when we look at um you know a proposal for for 150 ft uh I think I I I think it is which is which is pretty significant um I just want to ask our our planning director you you know I I think almost of the tides hotel which is which is close right now but for me that's like the grand Dom of of Ocean Drive such a beautiful historic building I see so many people taking pictures uh of that building even in its closed State Tom uh Mr director what is the height of the of the of the tides Hotel the tides hotel is 11 stories and approximately 115 ft 115 ft in height so so so even so this would be even taller than this than this Grand Dom that we have there on on an Ocean Drive that's correct okay and that to me is that I have I have a concern with that um you know the Netherlands the Netherlands I think is is another type of you know signature Building how tall is the Netherlands also Tom your sorry also 11 stories and that's 110 ft that's 110 ft okay so these are you know important buildings that are part of of the image of Ocean Drive you know I let's think about something perhaps you know perhaps a little bit different um you know perhaps a little bit more modern in style like the Victor you know the Victor that's that's that's another um you know building a historic structure that's got uh kind of like a tower element to it uh how how tall is is a Victor the Victor is eight stories approximately 80 feet 80 feet so so this is all information that we need to take into consideration when we think about this postcard that our electric has entrusted us with the responsibility to protect you know this weekend with uh with spring break actually the past two weekends with with spring break you know this this postcard has been the image that has circulated around the world for the first time ever you know positive uh with a positive connotation during spring break for the first time ever during spring break let me rephrase that um with a with a positive cognit and so and and so so that's important I think also you I I just for the benefit of the public and the committee members nick uh I think it's it's important to go through the uh lawsuit that was referenced uh where are we with that lawsuit uh how how would this uh factor in with the uh lawsuits that that that the applicant has filed sure sure Mr chairman I can address that very briefly the the litigation that Mr attachments referred to are are two uh challenges filed by the Cleveland leader hotel in uh in 2021 and 2022 um to litigation adop to legislation adopted by the city commission the first ordinance rolled back alcohol hours in the mxc district to 2 amm um in 2021 that ordinance was was enjoined by the by the circuit court and the the the second ordinance uh rolled back alcohol hours during a two-e period during during the month of March in 2022 um that ordinance was was also enjoined um the ca the case remains open um although I I I believe it's presently stayed um and as as a as as as a condition of the the um the the the the legislative changes that the that the Clevelander is seeking now um the the Clevelander would uh would dismiss that litigation and then and and that and thank you for that summary and that uh 2022 lawsuit related to something that applied only in 2022 uh during two weeks of the month of March but that's something that just applied something from two years ago that's right once those ordinances both those ordinances expired or were enjoined uh no further alcohol roll backs have been enacted by the city commission for this area and so and so so so the past city has has the past City commission or this current city commission taken any action to change the business model of the of the applicant that's coming before uh the city commission no the city commission has not rolled back alcohol hours for this for this area no okay so so so the past City commission neither neither the current city commission has taken an action that would adversely affect their ability to to to to engage in the business that they're in um I I think I I commend them for wanting to engage in this conversation because you're listening you're listening to the voices of our community I think I think residents in our community I think many many of them have have mentioned a desire to change the Dynamics of of of entertainment um and change and and change it for the betterment of the quality of life of the residents of our city and the image of of our city and and and I think it's it's it's a proactive measure that you're taking it's nothing that the city has said we're going to pass a regulation that is going to put you out of business and now you're coming in reacting to that there's never been from this city commission or the past City commission anything telling you that you're um that your um that your business model is being done away with in fact there was an item on the agenda correct me if I'm wrong Mr attorney there was an item on the agenda I think for all of last year trying to do away with the business model of the applicant and I believe that that that the item never never received the support and needed on the city commission to to to move forward was that correct that that ordinance was never adopted that's correct the ordinance was never adopted and so and so I understand uh where where where the applicant is is coming from I cannot say that I can support um such a such a large uh increase in height that is out of character uh with with with the surrounding business uh and I can't say that I support such an increase in in f um but I do think that that that there should be conversation I think as Mr Mr Caldo uh mentioned you know there's still no consensus on massing or or hide but that doesn't mean that there couldn't be and that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be engagement and conversation with our city Administration to see is there a path is there a path to adopt legislation that you know that where an applicant is coming forward and saying Hey listen we're open to do away with a with a business model well then what would be the right give and take you know I personally think maybe you know if there's a change should be more than just doing away with outdoor entertainment maybe it should be you know do away with outdoor and indoor entertainment but what does that translate to in terms of the economics of a project and making something financially viable and what does it translate to massing to the numbers of massing and F and height and that's something not for this body to do but rather for for our planning staff together with the city Administration to work with the applicant and move in a forward in a way that could then maybe get us to a better place so those are kind of my thoughts uh on this I want to open up the floor to my colleagues I love to get the the feedback of of my colleagues uh I see commissioner Suarez wants to speak on the on the item and then I'll welcome feedback from my and commissioner okay so commissioner Suarez followed by commissioner Dominguez thank you Mr chair so um Mr City attorney uh what could the under the live local act now what what could be forced to be adopted by us so if the app wanted to proceed with a live local application um first of all the legislature recently adopted amendments to live local act which have not yet been signed by the governor but um the applicant would be let's assume the governor does sign it so assuming the governor does sign um the applicant would be able to build up to the maximum height within a mile of this property which is currently Tom correct me but 150 ft is that correct okay and then if the amend ments up to 150 ft up to 150 ft in height that's right if the Amendments uh passed by the legislature this session are signed into law they uh would they would be they could build the maximum F I'm sorry 150% of the maximum f um allowed in the city now that is limited by the maximum height so even though the maximum uh even though 150% of the maximum F in the city would be you know an astronomical number probably over 5.0 that would be limited by the uh by the by the 150t limitation that applies in South Beach following the the commission's um the ordinance recently adopted by the commission right and so right now as the law stands it would be 150 ft Max that they could go up to that's right and just to clarify I think there was a comment that you said it would be 10et less than the tides through the chair I mean I'm not an expert but our um our esteemed architect Kobe and his team measured all of the buildings and I think there might be a discrepancy on habitable level and height our 150 foot height is the rooftop the rooftop of Tides is Kobe said 159 feet but Google says 161 so it's probably somewhere between those two okay um and so yeah and then Tom you you said that it would what is the max height of the tides right now um through the chair according to the building permit that we um looked at it was 115 ft to the rooftop now the stering elevator Towers might go slightly above that but I don't believe they go to 160 feet okay um so my concern is there's nothing stopping the Florida legislature next year I guess preempting us what we did this session correct I mean it's a good possibility that they could come back and say you know you guys are trying to outmaneuver us that's not going to happen I mean is that a fair assessment it's possible yeah um okay so look these are my thoughts um there really is no outsmart outsmarting Tallahassee you know I I've been there a bunch of times and Alex Alex commissioner you you've been there and you know that those are serious people and um and they are aligned um especially when it comes to you know affordable housing and Workforce housing and um and and development and whether we like it or not I think you know that like I personally I I don't like to see Towers in Miami Beach you know I think the 500 Alton was you know it's it's out of place it's It's Too Tall it's too massive it's it's it's it's it's out of character um but I don't what what I want to avoid is is really going down and trying to battle with Tallahasse because ultimately they can make our lives worse and I think there should be a willingness to engage engage with um the developers and I I think they have made a good faith attempt on on trying to compromise and I don't know if that was like a publicity stunt with the 30 stories I guess but you know whatever now you're coming back and and how many stories now it's 15 12 um you know would there be a willingness to go further down or last and and through the chair I don't know if um it all comes down to overall square footage so it's basically taking the existing business which has a value and replacing it with residential sales so if we need to expand the floor plate um create a different dimension we can look at the different heights but that's why we have to sit with planning staff and really look at all the details and play with mas and and come up with something that as you can see there there's a the biggest issue that we've real ized or at least that I have from you know going door too and campaigning is is height and and you know people are very sensitive to that um you know if we could if that could be brought down that that would that would make a you know that that to me that would be that would that would open up the appetite a little bit more if if if if I may because what I want to avoid at the moment and what I would suggest us avoiding of course it's the will of of the body ultimately you know height when it comes to development it's it's easy to jump to height but sometimes height affects massing y you know and massing is important in the car in in the context of a historic character the specific type of surrounding historic buildings that you may have there and how that the trickle effect that that could have an hour status within the National Registry of historic places and so and so and so if the if the desire is there for there to be some sort of negotiation on any of this I think it's it might be best rather than doing it from the de allowing there to be conversation between the interested party and our planning staff and our and our and our administration because it's a complex formula um and so I just wanted to put that there you can gain the floor thank you thank you Mr chair um yeah look I just want to know if there's a willingness you know I I don't expect to negotiate up here on the Fly um but just just just having a dialogue um a couple other thoughts uh you know I was on every night I was at Spring break uh at night as as commissioner um yeah all of us yeah uh most of us were on Ocean Drive you know every night and it certainly seemed that the Clevelander is the epicenter of of a lot of problems and um the loud music and I really believe that that business model is sort of antiquated for Miami Beach I think what I think the direction of Miami Beach is becoming more residential and less party focused and I I I I'm going to be supportive for uh anything that moves the needle on really ending the party scene and and building more of a community and residential neighborhoods and so you know I am very sensitive to the fact that we have a beautiful Ocean Drive and we do not want to we don't we don't want to ruin the character of of Ocean Drive um but at the same time what I'm saying is our hands are tied by Tallahassee there's really not much we can do next year and next session we could be possibly looking at a situation where there's going to be a 30 Story Tower and we have absolutely no say I think I think the best way to move forward is to we each extend an olive branch and and start a proper Dialogue on what is acceptable and you know you know I think we're all going to have to make sacrifices and and that's okay um because the last thing that we want is to send is to Telegraph the Tallahasse that we're not un we're we're we're stubborn we're not moving one bit but you know if we're if we're going to make an effort to engage and open up the conversation I think that'll be the best path forward to preventing a 30 or 50 Story Tower on Ocean Drive thank you commissioner uh I'm going to recognize commissioner Dominguez followed by the Vice chair uh thank you Mr chair um I was out on Ocean Drive every night as well I had a different view I didn't think that the Clevelander was the issue I saw it more as Voodoo Lounge and Locust which were causing the problems on South Beach um another thing I'll men mention is late into the night on Saturday night I did um night inspections with the fire department and we did surprise visits on Ocean Drive to the various businesses and when we went to the Clevelander I was pleasantly surprised at how pristine and beautiful it was in the lobby it was a surprise visit everything was organized and gorgeous clean um the historic floor and the furniture great job I mean you guys really have preserved uh the existing structure and it brought back memories um of the 9s when I was dancing out by the pool and the pool was covered look at you Laura I was um but anyway I do understand that Tallahasse is a problem but I can't imagine live local would be something that this group would be looking at because of the 150 height uh foot height that we have in that area and with Liv local part of the project has to be Workforce housing and with a height that low you can't make the numbers work so I don't think that's uh a path that we are we need to worry about per se what I do like is that the uh developer Justa group and their attorneys have met with us several times and they're making an effort to meet with mdpl and mbu and so be safe and all of the neighborhoods to make sure that everyone's engaged so while it doesn't sound like today we're ready for an answer we're on the right path and I thank you so much for what you're doing because it's professional and you're working with the neighbors and that's exactly what we need and one last thing I'll say uh one of the callers mentioned parking and I worry about parking too and especially if part of the project is going to be luxury residential I would imagine that those folks will want to have a parking space in their building so as you're discussing this with mdpl and people at the city and the rest of the neighborhoods keep that in mind for future oh and the very last thing sorry Mr chair about the setbacks not having setbacks um what I worry about is deliveries and uh stopping in front of uh a busy street and blocking the way because there's no setback or no areas for deliveries and drop offs so uh that is it I think we're on the right path and thank you Mr chair thank you and and before I recognize the advice the advice chair I do I do want to Echo a comment made uh by commissioner Dominguez uh and that is I I especially this spring break I didn't see the Clevelander being the center of the problem to the contrary I actually made a call to the Clevelander uh with some of my thoughts and The Clevelander not only answered but reacted and helped maintain uh contributed to there being a an orderly environment on Ocean Drive uh this uh this spring break uh especially as it related to noise and helping us with some crowd control uh matters and they were very receptive to the phone call they gave no push back to the contrary they wanted to make sure that there was an orderly uh environment uh in the in the area and so and so I want to Echo that comment commissioner Dominguez it was more more like some of the other neighbors on that block uh further to the north uh like voodo Lounge like Locust uh that uh even even last night I I walked on Ocean Drive just to see what the what the vibe was uh and uh and the vibe was great at The Clevelander yet a door over Locus the door was open with noise uh blasting outside out of out of the door uh which which is not allowed you know and so and and so I think sometimes the Clevelander has gotten an unfair reputation that perhaps is changing but certainly the approach of reaching out to the neighborhood association and proactively coming to us wanting to be part of the solution is certainly something that is very much welcomed and appreciated certainly not the litigious approach we have seen in the past which was not very much not appreciated with that the vice chair you're recognized thank you I've been trying to think of a good Canadian bacon joke but I can't I don't have one so I won't um it's a boot time time for that what's that a boot a boot time it's a boot time for a can J thank you for the the alleyoop there um look I I share a lot of what my colleagues on the days have said and and um what the callers have have uh raised issues about I I know the Clevelander and I don't have access to your pnls um but I know the Clevelander is not as busy as it has been in years past um I understand that there is a desire to change the business model from outdoor chaos at times to something more appealing to to the universe um or the immediate surroundings at least has there been discussion about reimagining the entertainment aspect or changing it from an outdoor party scene to an upscale um dining room of some sort I mean I'm thinking about Queen um on Washington which took an older historic property and made it into this eye popping fabulous destination dining and I don't think that we have anything like that on Ocean Drive and that could be a really cool thing as well I I we we have so going back a number of years ago we we actually applied and were approved for um a renovation of the S6 and a bridge connection to Clevelander and our strategy was actually repositioning the entire property as one hotel and kind of upgrading the overall experience not changing Clevelander but just probably making it a little less Antiquated to to your point commissioner um but then we got into some of the uh confrontation uh and decided not to invest any money really uh in it until we saw what our future looked like because it felt like our future was not necessarily certain uh under the current business model but certainly under the new development that's exactly the strategy is that what we do on the ground floor is going to emulate what happens upstairs and if if if we need to sell residential real estate at the numbers that are required to justify the project um we have to portray an incredible upscale experience and we've got all of the physical attributes today on the pool patio we've got a beautiful some beautiful Art Deco features and um and just a great area for for an upscale restaurant it just comes with this whole new plan that we're hoping to uh that we're hoping to push forward I mean one of the things that I was thinking about before you answered this question was if we're trying to get to a more palatable height um that is more contextually appropriate with the neighborhood in which it will reside um do you use the space that could be potentially used for entertainment um and forego that and make it residential 100% residential yeah so I mean with residential value value comes with views right so our strategy right now is that the lower floors where views are limited especially at the back of Essex we would do hotel so you have Hotel products where views are not necessarily as important then as you Rise um you'll get more value and the taller the building with more views the more price point the higher price point you get so I think lower floors will be amenities um and and you know trying to actually keep public access to the historical lobbies of both Essex and Clevelander um and then you know as you go up in the building it would I guess become more more privatized would be would be the strategy well I will say it is a new commission and there you know I think there is in many instances instances a desire to work collaboratively with people trying to solve problems we might have very different views we might have come from very different Corners um and we might not always agree but there is generally this desire to to at least have a dialogue so I I Echo the sentiment that that we are quite appreciative of all of that I don't think anybody was super psyched about the what I called in my I think it was my one of my last emails before I was elected a scare tactic of the live local 30 Story Tower um but once that died down and and we can have conversations that's that's really the only way we can move the needle forward I I would say that um you can't reiterate this enough but if we do anything to indicate that we are not taking seriously the historic protections given to Ocean Drive we have zero hope of protecting Ocean Drive and so if we want to really be entering into a partnership to find a mutually beneficial solution where you can make enough money to make it work and we can have buildings that we can grow to love and protect the buildings that we already have and love it's going to have to be with that very finite understanding that anything that puts us at risk literally I like this image is just popping to my head of like you know a little bird sticking his head out to see what's looking out out there and somebody comes with a lawn mower and just you know chops it off because that's what's going to happen if we say oh but it's okay to have these guys at 12 or 13 stories then all of a sudden everybody is going to have that and there goes our historic protection so you you know what we're talking about because you are very mindful as a developer in your other projects in other historic cities I am quite sure that we can find a way to do something which will get the math to work and get something that works within the neighborhood so I would just urge you to be really creative and thoughtful and Innovative because as as difficult as it is to be a developer in this city it is because there are those who have done so without the best interest of the community at at heart or in in mind and when somebody comes along and shows how mindful they can be and how well they can incorporate the the needs and desires of the community and and how good a product they can produce then it's a win for everybody thank you Madame Vice chair um so with that I think I think it'd be appropriate for for this committee to um well number one I just I just want to also say you know I also want to be careful because I don't I don't want want anyone to perceive this as like oh look Miami Beach you can go to Miami Beach with a live local application and if you want to get up zoning and then and then they can be strong armed into into doing something not I'm not saying you said that at all I just just us you know as a as a body moving forward I think it's just something to be mindful of uh about about these uh the local applications but I think um I think what would be appr is for this body to entertain a a motion to request for our staff and for the city attorney's office to meet with the applicants and to neg to negotiate the terms of some sort of of of development agreement a future development agreement uh taking into account the committee's comments uh particularly as they relate to height particularly as it relates to F of of of any possible Redevelopment on that side taking account into account the historic scale uh and character of the property on Ocean Drive and making sure that we do not do anything uh that could impact uh our our our status in the National Registry of of historic places and most certainly anything at minimum should uh take into account not only a some sort of profer and a covenant of not engag engaging in short-term rental activity uh which is something that I think most certainly this committee and probably the collective of the city commission would want to see uh but probably uh going Beyond AB abandoning outdoor entertainment um you know further restricting the indoor entertainment probably abandoning 5 a.m uh and entertainment or further abandoning allog together indoor entertainment if we it because that would be the purpose what what is the public benefit to going in and touching a a historic site like this uh in the manner that we're being asked to well is to is is is to make profit that benefit the overall quality of life and the interest of the residents and taxpayers of the city of Miami Beach and so and so going F further than just abandoning the outdoor entertainment you know looking further into into indoor entertainment because as as I just mentioned earlier you know you look you look at Locas and Voodoo Lounge you know they're impacting um the quality of life of the neighbors it's not you guys you guys right now are getting uh you know the backlash of ailments not caused by you guys but by establishments that have indoor entertainment and so we're truly looking to redefine this area we have to look at that as well and so I don't know if someone is willing to uh move uh something along the lines of what I just mentioned I will move something along the lines of what you just mentioned all right miss a second so Mr attorney is that clear would you like to restate it just for purposes of the record I I can do that I I just want to ask POS a question to the committee do would you like uh staff to to to to meet with the applicant um at this point or would you like to refer this to the city commission with the recommendation that the full commission Direct the administration to meet with the with the applicant well I certainly wouldn't want to do something uh that I wouldn't want to direct staff to meet with the applicant I mean we here you have four members of the city commission we can keep this item in committee um and guide me if that would be appropriate to keep this item in in in committee ask staff uh to meet uh with with the applicant with the applicant's representatives uh staff from the city manager's office uh and staff from our planning department and our legal office and maybe come back uh to committee uh so that we can further veted here before we pass a recommendation back to the full City commission okay all right and you got the motion is a motion clear uh to you I'm clear yeah okay all right and I see Mr tashas do do you need to make a comment and brief uh Mr chair just just two quick points we would be mean to know indoor entertainment to your point so just wanted to mention that um and the application for that we submitted before has now been sitting for five months so we really would would be great to keep it at the committee meet with staff and come back at your next meeting does that mean that you're withdrawing the application yeah I know I had to do it try all right uh Mr director you're recognized uh yes Mr chair just to confirm this will come back to you at your May one meeting correct uh that that is fine with me is that is that good with the body I want to I see um our assistant city manager Raquel Williams is in the audience and Madame Madame assisting assistant city manager would May 1 be an appropriate time does it give our Administration enough time to sit down with all the interested parties as well as Community stakeholders uh because we all know that that's going to be important in this process um to come back May 1st good afternoon honorable chair and Commissioners Rael Williams assistant city manager we would Endeavor to do so and if there were any obstacles or hurdles that prevented us from doing the robust Outreach requested we would respectfully ask for additional time but we can Endeavor to do that right and and and and the whole purpose right now is mainly to engage in dialogue uh with the with the applicant I think it'll be good to get certain feedback from entities like mdpl and some of the abing neighborhood associations before we truly go out there doing robust uh Outreach I think right now it's still at the committee level um so you know certain feedback and engagement we just need to make sure I'm not putting you in a in something that you can't fulfill if we were saying May 1st I wanted back May 1 that's something that we can accomplish okay all right perfect and as it relates to the comment that people have made about infrastructure parking and and and and the other matters Mr director believe I believe that the uh F process that we've adopted now in in the city takes into account at a full analysis of underground infrastructure and above ground infrastructure like parking and other impacts to the area before we approve any increase in F is that correct that's correct okay with that uh Mr attorney any other uh pending matters having to do with this item okay great thank you all thank you to the applicant uh thank you for your time and to all the members of the public who participated on that Mr director let's introduce item number three sponsored by commissioner Dominguez okay Mr chair um item number three um is a discussion regarding Expediting the opening of the Baywalk and moving the development of the Baywalk up on the Geo bond prioritization list and present the Baywalk plan to the land use and sustainability committee thank you uh Mr director I'd like to recognize uh commissioner Dominguez to introduce your item thank you Mr chair uh this item was commissioner Mark saman's item and he used to walk on the Baywalk every single day uh commissioner Fernandez picked it up and I've been co-sponsoring it with him to make sure we do what we can on our end to complete that Baywalk and at the last update it might have been at the West Avenue neighborhood association meeting um the pending item was uh there were a few pending items but the ones that I want to hear the upate dat on are behind the mandrian and speaking with the owner on what's happening there and the pedestrian bridge thank you Mr director you're you're recognized and after the director makes this presentation I'm going to open it up to members of the public wishing to speak on this item and then I'll bring it back to the day is Mr director uh certainly and good afternoon uh Mr chair uh Commissioners David Martinez CP director um so yes commissioner I I will uh let me address the mandrian meridor Baywalk portion first the the developer through their contractor have been able to secure a city of Miami beach permit uh my understanding is they're working on a final uh permit from durm which would uh give them what they need to be able to commence I believe they have already a Contractor on their contract that's very engaged and they have told us that they are uh potentially could be moving as quickly as uh 30 to 60 days after so they acquire those permits um and and then the actual duration of construction can be somewhere in the range of 6 to 8 months to complete does anybody know where we are in the Derm process and um I don't know exactly what I can tell you though is that we do have representatives from the developer the terror group uh Hector morelo and his team is here uh to address any of your questions with very more more specific information um I will tell you also that the the team that's here is also prepared to answer questions related to the pedestrian bridge um and and what I can do is if you like I can give you the quick snippet of the pedestrian bridge and maybe they can if the through the chair if they chair wishes they can come up and address the committee uh with any details this is a big agenda um so the snippet I think would work well I well I think it'll be good to hear from representatives of the developer on this uh if we welcome your your snippet on it but I think uh it'll be good for the public to hear from representatives of the developer sure and uh I will introduce with that I'll introduce Hector marello he um with the terara group and his team um on related to the pedestrian bridge uh they they are officially into a 100% application process through the final permit with the Department of Transportation and they're feeling and awaiting uh feedback from the Department to address whatever final comments they may have and working through the last little bit they're also into the city's process um uh as of a week and a half or so ago going through the process that the city has for their permit those two permits would hopefully get us into a uh construction uh in the near future thank you Mr Mr director and m madame uh commissioner what I would like to know from Mr meruelo when is it that we can anticipate for this pedestrian bridge to finally you know complete the the permitting process and see actually uh see this moving forward so for The Pedestrian I actually want to bring up Alice Bravo she's been our she's been our consultant she's been working really close with with fdot I'll slide over um on that um I think you know in discussions that we've had with with uh floor Department transportation I think we can get end of April is what we're shooting for getting a permit out of out of their hands end of April okay and uh where are you with your permitting uh with the city with the city we've we've submitted the ride of we permit and that's in their hands now that they're reviewing when was it submitted it was submitted uh last week okay and so last week so we we we were finalizing the the TS permit which is the original permit there was comments on that that we had to finalize we had to close those out and then we're moving into we opened up another RightWay permit which is going to be the the the governing permit for for the pedestrian bridge I see our Deputy city managers and the audience uh I think it's no secret that this is a priority uh to to move this forward just just just for my edification um usually how long does it take to review a right ofwe permit Mr Deputy direct city manager so typical RightWay permit typic would take approximately two weeks um this is a little bit atypical we don't do too many of these pedestrian Bridges um but uh we met with the entire team including the development team and our internal permit review Staff last Friday um and I am getting periodic updates to make sure that we get timely responses hopefully all of the issues will be addressed and a permit can be issued or if we have any comments I want to get them back to them quickly so that they can respond and resubmit and I know that sometimes we we respond with our comments quickly uh Alice Bravo I see is here representing also uh terror group uh you know how how soon can we anticipate you know you guys responding to comments from the city and really moving more expeditiously with this I'm just you know so the right of way permit was submitted last week you know I wish maybe that would have not been last week maybe several weeks months before that but here we are it's submitted that's progress um please tell us where we're at okay good afternoon Alice Bravo Alice Bravo and Associates and we're excited about this project and and helping bring the Baywalk uh along and and connected and and we've been working very very closely with fdot and we've had uh 90% subid responded to that submitted 100% plans and and this week they're scheduled to finish giving us all the comments on that 100% submitt we've been tackling those comments in in advance with individual reviewers as we receive them um so that's why we we anticipate that um we're going to finalize any comments about um traffic operations Landscaping Etc we're we're getting to that point where we're down to the final comments we've addressed the the larger structural plan review questions um so that's why we're anticipating we'll have that final FD permit um towards the end of April and certainly I'm sure you can understand that Tera is an important partner to the city of Miami Beach uh we are working on on this important and iconic pedestrian bridge uh that certainly is very important to the city of Miami Beach we're W we're working of course on the on the Baywalk uh behind the mandrian certainly very important we have an important asset uh that we're working on with terror group with the with the Convention Center Hotel so we're engaged in a number of projects uh so so so terror group is certainly a very important partner to the city of of of Miami Beach just wondering um when do you what what is your goal what is your goal to move to break ground with with your date your date as a goal to break ground uh with the pedestrian bridge and what is your date to finally move forward with the Bri with the Baywalk behind the mandrea with the pedestrian bridge with with obviously with the is this one with with um with the permit being issued at the end of April we think we can get started by um the end of May actually the target date right now is May 28th um to start work um that would bring us through four four to five months of utility relocations and utility movements in which after that we can start getting into structure and getting getting the project completed by how many months of relocation of you four to five months so we have two water mains that we have to relocate communication line that has to be relocated that actually feeds uh Coast so that gets us to October correct and then after that it's essentially 16 months of of of construction work to to get it uh the bridge built okay which brings it to the end of 25 okay and uh and with the Baywalk and the Baywalk we're shooting for a May 1st start date May 1 start date that's all dependent on on on durm finalizing their um their permit um what that looks like there would be starting test piles May 1st after that four four weeks after that we'd be we'd be full-blown uh production pile um and completing by November uh of this year and and we have uh the contractors that'll be performing the work for both projects here they've been very involved in plan review Etc in terms of preparation for construction to begin the Baywalk has been awarded the dacken Marine which is John corvi here the blue shirt and then mtec has been awarded the the pedestrian bridge which we have on this this mosa with M here as well okay uh what I would like us to do because every month our staff has to come here and has to give us an update on this and our staff can only speak to the work our staff is doing but our staff cannot speak to the work that terara is doing you guys can only speak for yourselves um you guys are such important Partners to the city for all the reasons I mentioned again it's not just a pedestrian bridge it's not just the Baywalk it's also this so important this economic engine that will be uh hopefully the Miami Beach Convention Center Hotel um what I'm going to ask is is we're set to have this item for update on a monthly basis on our agenda that David Martinez has to come here and S here and be grilled by us uh and we grill him um I'm going to ask for for teror group to be here on a monthly basis together standing uh with David Martinez for an update on this because we need to we owe it to the residents that to whom we've made this commitment to just to keep them on uh informed of where we are with the progress uh that we're making with this okay great all right guys great thank you for the update uh commissioner I don't know there's anything else Madame Vice uh chair commissioner Suarez no okay um with that uh David was there anything else you wanted to put on the record thank you with that we can show the um yes Mr director just for clarification purposes Mr chair uh this will be continued to the next meeting May one for further discussion yes let's and this will stay as a priority item on our agenda thank you thank you with that uh Mr director let's call up uh item number four okay uh Mr chair item number four is to discuss retaining a consultant to conduct an intensity and density Capacity Analysis including analysis and recommendations for individual zoning districts thank you Mr director so back in 2008 I think it was this study was originally initiated and what it does is it analyzes our different zoning districts uh and it analyzes you know how much square footage of certain types of uses can be built in in different zoning districts how much of that has been built how much of that remains available to be built um and the last time that this was done was in 2008 uh and it's and clearly I think it could be time that we could use this uh use an update of this uh how does the planning department Mr director use uh this uh study as a tool so if if there was a proposal approved by the commission to retain a consultant to update or use the 2008 study as a baseline um we could use that in terms of recommendations for future increases in F whether those increases are property specific or whether or not those increases are more um globally oriented the other thing that a Capacity Analysis uh and an intensity analysis could potentially do is inform whether or not certain areas of the city are either over overdeveloped or perhaps there should be a um a um a reduction in potenti developing rights now that does become a little challenging because Florida as you're aware is a private property right State and with um potential haris act claims we always try to be very judicious in terms of when we would if at all recommend any type of um either down zoning or reduction in development rights thank you um and and I I think you've you've explained it well it's it's so interesting the study from from 2008 made it doesn't break down you know it goes It goes you know into South Beach North Beach mid Beach um and it'll show you um you know the amount of total square footage uh for let's say in in in the district for let's say residential multifam low intensity I'll show you the the the amount of square footage in the district for it the amount of Acres uh the potential building square footage that's that's available how much is built out how much is not built out and it goes down and provides you that analysis for each one of the different zoning districts and it shows you okay you know if there is a need for more multifam it shows you those those areas of the city that might have capacity for that it also could show you okay if I'm looking looking to develop let's say office space which district in our city has the capacity for office space because we haven't maximized in that zoning yet you know maybe one one part of our city has already maximized already it's it's it's zoning uh for for for for commercial high intensity let's say CD3 but another part of our city has not I can now you know seek to develop that in the in a part of our city where there where there might not be enough supply for it as opposed to going in an area of our city where there's an over supply of it and so I see this as as a great tool not just for us or or the city staff in planning but also for the industry out there as they're looking at our city you know we can now they can now you know Traverse and go into the areas where where certain supplies might be more more needed I don't know if if uh our committee members um Madame Vice chair you're recognized thank you I I love this idea I didn't even know this had happened uh a thousand years ago but I'm glad that it did um when I don't know if you can provide this prior to the next meeting or just an email to the committee but the report gives background um of at that time being able to accommodate almost 8,000 dwelling units and additional 8 million square feet of non-residential development and what I think would be really useful for us all to know is where are we in those Frameworks um because if we've already uh created 8 million uh 8,000 dwelling units then we have no more capacity right in theory um but I I don't I don't think that that's where we are but I would like to know where we are um the other question I had about this um report which was super interesting to read was it unless I'm really missing something it just doesn't have any information about um our infrastructure in terms of sewer lines and storm water and all that kind of stuff um and I would request that any any consultant that gets hired to do this assessment um identifies that not only in a current point in time but also um taking into account the up grades that we are planning on the Capital Improvements but some of those aren't going to hit the streets literally and figuratively for three or four decades so current point in time is is super important I think thanks great thank you madam Vice and I and I think I'm just going to quote some of the interesting things and I be I became familiar with this document serving along your side on the planning board that's when I first uh saw this document became familiar with this document and came to Value it um you know these are just some quotes um on the existing conditions from 2008 it'll be interesting to see the updated version of this North Beach includes about 689 acres of developable land excluding rideways or about 20% of the city's developable land area it talks about mid Beach Middle Beach occupies almost half of the city's developable land area in in the city South Beach occupies about 32 2% of the city's developable land and includes the largest population of high density intensity development in the city almost half of its developable land is designated for nonresidential it includes so much interesting information um you know in mid Beach more than 48% of the developable land in mid Beach is classified as single family zoning mid Beach also contains almost 400 Acres that is designated for government institutional use there's so much value and and and important information in this in this study um and you know then going down District by District the different uh available zoning and and you know available um square footage to be developed uh by District in different parts of of the city I think for land use nerds uh it certainly would be a great uh a great and interesting read at night May yes hi I just want to also put out on the record we want to get this information but this doesn't mean that if we have room to develop more we are definitely going to develop more absolutely not I want to make that clear this is not the guide book on where to build new buildings this is so that we something I know I talked about a lot on my campaign Trail my colleagues have all talked about it as well um we need a holistic approach to the way we go forward with our our any future development because we're really at the sort of at a precipice of how much more we can tolerate um for a lot of different reasons which are different depending on where in the city we are so this is to um enable us to make better wiser decisions not to hand out a map for you know a land grab perfect thank you seeing no other comments from from our colleagues I'm going to open up the item to uh public comment are there members of the public wishing to speak on this item see non in person and non in line I'm going to close a public hearing uh Mr attorney uh guide me on the proper motion uh to be considered by the body to move forward uh with this item uh Mr chairman this item was was referred to both the land use committee and the finance committee so um if the land use committee would like to move forward you could make motion uh transmitting a favorable recommendation to the city commission okay so so uh it'd be great if we could entertain a motion do we want this as part of this funding year which would probably require a budget amendment or we'll leave it to the finance commit let's bring it to finance and roll it into next year's budget okay unless there's an urgent actually Tom roughly how much would this cost I wouldn't want to $28 please yeah I I wouldn't want to speculate I think it's something that we probably need to reach out to the firms that do this to get a better number um but off the top of my head it's I would imagine something this comprehensive it probably would be around $100,000 okay so uh Madam Vice chair I guess your motion is uh to to direct the administration to uh retain a consultant to conduct an intensity density Capacity Analysis um wouldn't we have to funding as as part of the budget process the 25 budget process that'll be the recommendation to the city commission yep okay I'll second that I think we can adopt that by acclamation Mr attorney sure okay thank you colleagues um Mr director let's introduce item number five okay uh item number five is consider adopting a building energy benchmarking ordinance for greenhouse gas emissions commissioner Dominguez this is your item uh you're recognized thank you Mr chair so this item began with the sustainability committee and they had been hosting uh speakers and uh presenters discussing and they ultimately passed this item unanimously uh from a policy perspective a benchmarking ordinance is very important for measuring and tracking the energy performance of the largest buildings in the city local and state governments have established benchmarking and disclosed policies as as a tool to improve the Energy Efficiency of buildings the city commission has extensive legislation in adopting policy supporting ghg emission reduction in April 2021 the Commissioners unanimously adopted a goal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through a joint effort with the city of Miami to achieve a net zero greenhouse gas emission goal by 2050 an energy benchmarking program is a high impact way to work towards a achieving that goal this is an economic Advantage as well for building owners by understanding where energy is used Property Owners owners and managers can identify areas for improvement and take action to increase in efficiency and buildings across the US that have benchmarked over a three-year time span reduced energy consumption by an average of 2.4% annually and this is a competitive Advantage it provides real estate consumer consumers with a reliable way of distinguishing an efficient building from an inefficient one in commercial real estate decreasing energy by 30% is the equivalent of increasing net operating income by 4% and we can take all of this into consideration into our discussion to explore whether an energy benchmarking program is suitable for Miami Beach this would require resources for ordinances and Amy nlls is here who helped me with my talking points and can provide anything additional thank you we're going to recognize uh the director of sustainability uh for the state of Miami Beach and then we'll go to uh public comment you're welcome okay wonderful well good afternoon Mr chair and honorable members of the committee so I'll provide just a few comments in addition to what commissioner Dominguez said I do have a brief PowerPoint just because this is kind of a different topic and I thought it could help guide us so yes um if we could get that up a little bit about energy benchmarking um it is the practice of a assessing and analyzing energy use of a building how do you improve itation of the program um and then you can compare it to past performance and other buildings now the city has done several projects internally to help reduce our energy use and mitigate um our greenhouse gas emissions for example we track our own uh consumption monthly uh we look at our bills through something called Energy cap which has been very helpful um we recently received a report from aeom on our own energy assessment and it recommended we prioritize project um such as lighting system upgrades HVAC system upgrades rooftop solar and carports and further analysis for uh efficiency of of Machinery um we have some relevant goals that this program is in alignment with that I did want to share um we have a 2050 goal as you mentioned to achieve net zero emissions we have a strategy called resilient 305 that this commission adopted in 2019 along with Miami dat County in the city of Miami where we work together regionally on resilience and this was actually an item in there to develop an energy benchmarking and transparency ordinance for for municipal and commercial buildings and then finally just know in Miami Beach 70% of our building of our emissions do come from buildings so it is a big source for us um so both the city of Miami and Miami dat County have been moving steadily forward U Miami did pass an ordinance back in 2021 the programs underway and then the county is still working on their ordinance um however they did develop a b e305 voluntary ChalleNGe Program and um that is something for businesses to participate in we have since passed an urban heat island ordinance in Miami Beach and we also have our lead ordinance that requires newer buildings over a certain size to be built with the those lead um gold requirements so it is U best practice to really focus on larger buildings for something like this buildings do waste up to about 30% of their energy and water due to inefficiencies and poor operations and that's just you know important to note um size-wise um a little bit about the County's program so they have 120 different buildings participating and I'm proud that 12 of them are on the city of Miami Beach on our property um you can see here one of the buildings 5600 colins was actually highlighted as a case study report um and has energetically been participating um so that is an important program that already is offered to our residents um and just again on the economic benefits it is seen generally as a as an economic Advantage for businesses um for building owners increases their asset value makes them more marketable helps with their operating margins tenant retention and really distinguishes them competitively and it's something that is utilized it can also help with things like air quality and satisfaction and overall Yer lower energy um energy bills there are a lot of results from cities that have done Benchmark marking um in the State of Florida there's a city of Miami and city of Orlando but you can see across the country there's been a lot of other cities as well um from Chicago Minneapolis Denver New York uh Seattle and San Francisco here's an example of an analysis that was done on the type of energy savings they have seen um in additionally this usually includes training and resources as well and then there's other economic benefits to the economy um in terms of job creation and clean energy so overall this does require an investment so it would be a investment for our city if we decided to do something like this we can look to our colleagues at city of Miami and sort of see what they have have invested in this the software itself um was about $500,000 um that was for a four-year contract and that creates the mechanism for building owners to enter in their information to do the analysis and to do the comparisons um and then they also had a full-time staff to develop the program and to answer questions and to help the building owners throughout the city um actually implement this um so for us in terms of next steps if there something you'd like to consider we would have to consider funding and resources we would need to develop an actual ordinance which it's really recommended that you use strong stakeholder participation with building owners um we would have to go through a procurement process and then you know go through implementation so it's a a many years process uh with that I'm happy to answer any questions thank you Madame director what I'm going to do I'm going to go ahead and open up the public hearing and then we'll bring the conversation back to the days for members of the committee who have question questions of staff and of the sponsor with that Johan Moore I see you have your hand raised you have two minutes you're recognized thank you m Mr chair uh good after Commissioners uh chair and staff uh I'm delighted to have this subject before you today in particular I want to thank commissioner Dominguez uh whom I had initially proposed essentially a cold call Ver via via email after finding out from our sustainability staff that we did not currently have this more refined uh benchmarking proposal uh as opposed to the city's earlier proposal I can hardly follow up uh on the excellent economic analysis um that's been presented for all of this and I was just this morning debating in my mind whether realtime uh availability of this data is a best use for it and thinking oh well it may not make that much difference but as I I see I think that may be exactly the selling point for the public I just want to make uh two points um I'd like it if the commit if the committee would further and the commission would support uh a a sense of the current commission uh that future uh complications and I use that word in quotation marks and I mean it in the sense of a clock or watch type uh Clockwork uh complication uh uh uh a notched wheel that provides further information or desired uh effects be considered as an aspect of any potential fine schedule and fine forgiveness schedule I think we Overlook that uh as a tool uh not as a punitive one uh quite the contrary and with stakeholder input uh in terms of what they value along with commission input uh along with what you most highly want to incentivize those funds being spent on be it resilience or sustainability uh be it uh maintenance of historic buildings uh and their architecture be it uh for the purpose of furthering affordability and you can use that Tool uh as you especially decrease the square footage uh uh ladder as it were on on Need for reporting um and I think you can also uh Mr Mr Moore your time time is up I'm going to give you just just a few more seconds just to just to wrap up out of a courtesy because you are a member of the sustainability committee that by acclamation uh did send us uh this item in on January so uh so so just a few more seconds to wrap up thank you I'll just thank by uh I'll just finish by thanking you uh since I did in fact bring this forward I'm very grateful for the commit committee support and for this committee's uh hearing of this subject I'm available to answer any further questions email thank for your participation thank you uh with that commissioner Dominguez I'd like to move the item okay yes yes madame Vice chair you're recognized followed by commissioner Suarez um so Amy can you explain how this would work for buildings um it's a voluntary thing for buildings to enroll and then figure out how to get themselves to the goals or are there incentives are there programs to help buildings I mean thinking of where I live which is an older building and not everyone's replace their build their windows and hallways are cooled to Meat Locker temperature I'm thinking gosh that would be a great uh candidate for this but how do you get a building involved sure well I think there's two paths to kind of highlight um the first path would be an actual ordinance which would be mandatory and the second one is voluntary where um building owners can sign up um there already exists a voluntary program and that's that be35 program run by the county um we have about 12 buildings participating right now in Miami Beach and it's a it's a small But Mighty program um and and they look to grow that um the city of Miami actually has you know this required ordinance and it requires all building owners um and it is specifies in a phased approach depending on the size to submit their information and so the way the um the process works is that they contact FPL so the business uh owner or the building owner would contact FPL ask for something called his whole building data so that's important because within a building you can have a lot of different tenants and you know they're they're getting their own their own bills and so the building owner would request that from FPL they would take that information and they would enter it into the software program which would allow them to look at their building they can compare it to other buildings of the same size they can compare year after year um and in addition um there's sort of like a help Des component to help them through um something called like a retuning process um and it's it's not a complete retrofit but for example over time the ordinance could require that there's checkups being done which is similar to like you know a car making sure everything is is moving along properly and that is part of their ordinance doesn't necessarily have to be part of ours I think every ordinance is kind of different um so that's how the process would work you know the biggest challenge um that we have heard is really setting it up you know once a building owner has their process set up and and has their information it can take them I guess like under an hour to enter it but that first year it's harder because they have to establish that relationship with FPL they have to get that information they have to learn learn the process but once that information is is set up and you've got that starting point is what incentivizes or is it is it a characteris atic for the building to then improve upon its initial readings and and is there a program that we can follow to help encourage people to do that yes well and that's why it is important to have Staffing and and and a software that's going to teach people how to do this properly you know once you get your data what do you do with it what do you focus on and that's a really important part of um what any good ordinance should have and and why the the staff is needed um you know you first start with the numbers what are some different things to do I think the the incentive there is for them to save money on better uh having better operations for their buildings it's also a selling point you know it can reduce energy bills for their tenants so it is seen um as a competitive advantage and it has been proven that once you start looking at the numbers there is an ability to start you know decreasing um but that one is required um and then you know I should mention some ordinances do have fine structures so um the one Miami has the first year they did not have any fines um they allowed participation they had a very good partici participation rate I think 20 to 25% year two is when they're going to start um you know going into the the sort of that penalty process um but the first year in other cities what they were telling us they see about 15% compliance you know it takes time to bring buildings on to doing this thank you thank you madam Vice chair so this would be a new requirement on building owners correct yes okay and uh this new requirement on building owners would be to input disinformation into a software into an online software of sorts that the city would have to acquire yes yes sir how much is that software well we can again just go to what the city of Miami has um they did a soul Source procurement and theirs was about $500,000 and that was for four years so then I guess part of the motion if we do put forward a motion would be I guess for the city commission to to request that the administration prioritizes as part of uh the next fiscal year budget correct and in addition as part of that it would need a position it would need sorry a position it would need a position I mean it would definitely need somebody to develop the program to um you know implement the software to develop all the operational guidelines to do all the trainings for U building owners and managers and and to you know to make sure it's done properly and this would be a requirement of multif family building owners owners commercial building owners like tell me walk me through uh a single family homeowner no won won't have to do this condominium associations would have to do this well I mean we would really I would be important for us to analyze the size of our buildings and what would make sense to phase it in um so uh we could start with the largest buildings with the largest square foot and then kind of go down from there okay um that's considered best practice to phase it in because the largest buildings have the largest ability to achieve savings okay so that's something we would work out through a stakeholder process okay um and then we don't have a proposal yet as to compliance like whether this would be voluntary or non-voluntary and if it you know let's say um let's say they don't they don't submit this what the penalties would look like are they going to get you know the first month they get a $300 penalty followed by a daily penalty or some other cities just come out right with a daily penalty we don't have that figured out yet I think it's it's up to us to develop and create what would work best for our city there's a lot of examples um the memo lists all the different fine structures from the different cities from um you know Miami to Atlanta to Chicago to Philadelphia uh to Boulder so it really just um depends on on what would work well for our city um if if it was going to be just voluntary you know we might just encourage people to utilize the County's be35 program which is a which is a challenge okay and then that's at no cost and that's available now what I would like us to consider is I don't want to create something new that will be punitive on the property owner I do see the value of creating this Benchmark program uh to to be more self-aware and help Property Owners reduce their their energy consumption and lowers um you know lower our greenhous greenhouse gas emissions um and make sure that we're uh moving forward in a more environmentally friendly manner us as a city but also our private stakeholders our private property owners um I would like us to figure out the way that we make this as an incentive that the property owner that participates in this gets an incentive of sorts a benefit that they wouldn't get otherwise so that that way we're so that if they don't do it they don't get penalized for it um because you know we have a lot of absente property owners you know you know and then all all all of a sudden you know an old lady that that that that owns an apartment building you know doesn't know about this doesn't know how to submit the the information online now it's tracking up a bill that becomes a lean that you know now you know it becomes a liability uh for them I rather see this first you know implement it first you know through incentives okay if you do this the city will help you with that you know you got a discount in your BTR you got uh something um before we go into the route of actually mandating it as the standard before we say well if you don't do this is you know we're going to start charging you $250 a day and and that type of stuff so perhaps uh commissioner what I would suggest is because I think the recommendation or the desire was to consider adopting a building energy benchmarking ordinance what if we amend your motion so that we can have staff work with you on an actual ordinance so that we have an idea of a framework that come that can come back to the committee that we can consider and vet and that then we can send back to the city commission for consideration are you open to that yes of course and um also open to having it be incentive based and uh moving in that direction too sure great so uh so so so so commissioner Dominguez has has has made has made a motion uh to create uh oh I'm so sorry commissioner SS you're recognized thank you madam Vice you're very welcome gotta took the words right out of my mouth Alex yeah I I don't think we want to go toward a punitive system for um down this route I think you know I I would this even apply to like four unit condos and above I don't think so I mean the the first step at least for Miami was 100,000 square feet buildings so it's pretty large but that would really be up to us based on our housing stock that's right so where where do at what point do you to say it's a success and say all right you know they they've met the requirement and who sets that requirement well just submitting the data um first and having people meet that that that actual deadline um is I think a a big success for year one getting the data and looking at it and then ideally we as a city would be looking for um those uctions in energy use and those kind of efficiencies and we'd want to see those results of the program and in addition that's great for the property managers and owners as well now would that take into account individual condo units um it really it really I think depends on the on the property I mean we could focus on Commercial um but usually multif family is included yeah so what what I want to avoid is you know in getting people to maybe raise their temperature of their air conditioning because they're trying to meet a certain threshold of Energy savings and um kind of want I want to avoid that I think that's a little I think that that would be too too much to ask um you know Property Owners um so I think we need to just be very careful I I I think this is a great idea to find out where we are are um as far as energy output and consumption but I just I I think I Echo what uh our chair said is that we don't want this to be punitive we want it to be incentivized thank you commissioner um with that I think there's a motion on the table Mr attorney is there Clarity uh to staff on the motion yes and I think the motion is is is just for the record I think the motion is consistent with the referral which was to consider adopting an ordinance on benchmarking it sounds like the the consensus on the committee is to look at it either a voluntary or incentive based model correct and for and for the administration to work with the sponsor on on what on the criteria you know do we want this to apply to condominium buildings or do we want it to apply to multif family or do we want to start with commercial with commercial property um you know you know uh you know buildings like Office Buildings and uh and Retail spaces as opposed to residential buildings and that type of stuff you know work work with the sponsor on that uh language so that then we have a framework as a starting point for us to deliberate and consider at the committee okay so I think by acclamation uh Mr director uh just for clarity purposes Mr chair um do you want this to come back at your May meeting or the June meeting because I know you need time to draft the ordinance um please uh guide us how much time will you need for yes I think this will take a few months um you know as I mentioned typically a l a lot of research is done on the building sizes yeah thank you thank you madam director uh with that let's show this item adopted Mr director let's introduce item number six okay Mr chair uh item number six is to discuss amending the single family development regulations in the Miami Beach res code to establish standards for permissible Ingress and egress ramps for accessibility purposes thank you Mr director this is an item that I placed uh on the agenda after being contacted uh by by by a resent that um brought a matter to to my attention which is single family homeowners uh they need to have a ramp for for medical purposes uh but they can only um build the ramp uh by going into into the setbacks of their property they either a can't build the ramp or they need to go through the through the uh board approval process which could be lengthly costly uh and uh and and difficult at times so so this would create an an amendment um that uh that would Grant to the administration the the ability to administratively review uh and Grant uh such approvals and I believe it's one approval uh per single family home is that correct that's correct this would amend the Land Development regulations to create an exception to the minimum perious area and setback requirements specifically for this type of accessibility ramp uh within an existing single family home okay are there any questions on this item okay are there members of the public wishing to speak on this item seeing no members of the public person or virtually it's been moved by commissioner Suarez seconded by the Vice chair uh without any opposition show the item adopted thank you Mr director yeah just for clarity purposes Mr chair what we're going to do based upon your recommendation is bring a C4 referral to the city commission to refer that to the planning board thank you so much uh with that uh let's show the item uh closed let's move forward to item number seven Mr director please introduce the item okay item number seven is a discussion regarding recommendations for a potential composting program thank you this item was placed on the agenda by commission by by mayor Miner um any member of the city commission the mayor or city commission who has items on the agenda under their sponsorship they're unable to attend the meeting I always welcome their participation either virtually or have their staff speak on the item if they so desire uh I communicated this to the mayor's office I don't see mayor Preston but I do see um uh Amy nolles uh I believe you'll speak on the item sure i''d be happy to provide a little bit of background on composting so I'll recognize you then I'm going to go to the public okay okay great well good afternoon again um so the item before you did come from the the mayor's office as you said uh regarding expanding a composting program um just to get at the purpose of why people are interested in composting it is growing in popularity uh we know that food waste makes up about 20 to 30% with what goes into landfill creates methane which is a very very potent greenhouse gas um so it really helps with that and it also enriches our soils and creates a very nutrient rich soil so it is a process uh we have two successful composting hubs in the city of Miami Beach we have one at the Botanical Gardens and we have one in North Beach um they're Community compost hubs and a third composting Hub is underway to be located in mid Beach um and our community gardens also have composting so these are great options for residents as well as backyard composting we have bins uh we have about 71 bins that have been provided through our Surf Rider foundation and we're actually doing an event March 30th at the Miami Beach Regional Library uh with University of Florida um so people can learn and also can obtain a backyard composting bin um so there's a lot of considerations if the city commission wanted to expand composting um if you'd like me to go into those Mr chair I can I'm happy to there are a lot of um regulatory Frameworks around that what is the uh mayor's request with this item um his item was really to um uh look for recommendations for potential additional composting programs he had attached um an item from compost for life which is an entity that goes can do like door to-door type composting um he wanted to consider composting in City Hall and also expanding to U other uh maybe even residential pickup okay um is is there an actual recommendation from staff on any of those requests um no I'm just presenting this information um really just for for background and then I did you know if you'd like to hear with there are several regulatory considerations if there's something much broader like for residents or for city hall or something like that okay I'm going to open I'm going to open this up to members of the public I'll bring it back to the days for discussion Joan Moore you have your hand raised you have two minutes please be mindful of the clock welcome thank you again Mr CH and thank you for allowing me to finish my remarks before um these uh remarks now are uh on behalf of the sustainability committee uh we would uh like you to focus on the limitations of the current program um residential units in much of South Beach uh especially within Flamingo Park that may not have cars that may have small units uh find it difficult to transport compost to the compost hubs um aart dwellers generally if they have a balcony or a Terrace may not find it difficult to produce compost but then what do they do with it how many flower pots can they fill up with it and how much will be tolerated in the condo's communal property uh our discussions that led to our LTC uh possibly several of them uh in support of compost for life from the committee um revolved around a couple of issues that I wanted to please put before you um compost for Life agreed with our assessment that the most important thing that or things that the commission could do would be to consider purchasing or renting additional land on the mainland to uh enable them to expand their composting uh capability uh and likewise that the commission consider purchasing uh garbage trucks uh appropriate to uh green waste uh in order to transport that there I would put a final ID before you that as the city pursues the possibility of an RFP with a waste hauler that the waste hauler be asked incentivized compelled uh to provide a given number of trucks either with driver or uh Union regulations uh possibly withstanding uh to compost for Life uh and possible funding for them to hire their own drivers in order to expand their program namely to residential pickup thank you very much thank you Mr Moore colleagues uh we have this item from mayor Miner before us uh are there comments on this item questions suggestions com U Madame Vice chair and then commissioner Suarez so um thank you sorry about that um I think setting up composting bins at City Hall is kind of a no-brainer I mean nothing's a no-brainer but that's an easy lwh hanging fruit that I think we can do that might make a small bit of difference and certainly help educate so so whatever we could do to make that happen quickly and easily would be great um we're across the street from the Botanical Garden so you know collecting it and dropping it off once a week or whatever shouldn't be too honorous we could hopefully be able to figure that out um I was going to suggest what Johan Moore suggested which is in um their pursuit of the ever elusive waste hauling contract um that we talk to them about what their capability could be to address some of these needs um I I don't think it's super realistic for us to be talking about buying land on the mainland um to to try to further these goals worthy though they may be so the two things that are the most loow hanging fruit um would be um I think doing it at City Hall and and talking to the waste haulers who are competing to try to incorporate that as what into what they they may be doing I completely agree with with you m Madam Vice chair um and certainly if if we come up with any program to do anything at City Hall you know maybe finding a centralized place I know I saw around the building I think in our own offices uh a bin and uh as as great as the idea is and as um as well intended that the idea is you know the uh the scent of it was not as uh as welcoming no I mean they need to be they need to be the right receptacle that seals at the right location at the right location at the right location and and and I think that's it uh we want to make sure that City Hall remains a welcoming and professional environment uh where where where there's no scent as a byproduct of of a facility like this but finding the right space for it maybe outside the building near where you know trash is collected or something like that uh we leave that in the hands of our capable and professional staff uh commissioner Suarez on the item you recognized yeah I I I I I love the program I I would I would be very you know the commissioner bought hit it on the head what would what would it take to have a pickup from waste man or from a waste company maybe once a week or every other week to I guess pick up those pink buckets right and that's the the program yeah so that is just one provider that is out there um you know there actually are not any approved locations for composting through all of my County so there's no approved locations for composting to go to um so that is regulated by State Statute 62-79 which provides different Pathways to get entities there but there's just not currently any so I think that are some of the issues and any haulers would have to be authorized haulers um whether they're you know Solid Waste but they would have to go through a process to make sure they're authorized and that is something you know we've we've You Know spoken with the the county about that and so we do have to be careful as a city that we are abiding by you know all of these laws um and that's why the community composting bins are the way that we have really gone because they are exempt from regulation because they're so small um if we set up a composting site at City Hall we would need you know a few thousand square feet it would need to have uh you know it would cost a certain amount to really do that properly um you know definitely around 100 150,000 and it would have to be it would have to be managed well um to get away from those odors if you will um so through the chair through the chair yes um so you and all of Dade County you said we don't there are no authorized composting facilities in Miami Dade County at the moment but Miami D County I believe mayor Cava is looking they're really looking to create a pathway for the future they um are will be releasing an RFP soon on zero waste Master planning I think in the next you know coming years we're going to see a lot of innovation they're looking at Large Scale sort of work with this um but right now it's very sensitive because we're so hydrologically connected to our groundwater on the mainland and so these are really seen with a lot of restrictions I mean they have to be paved areas they have to be covered the uh storm water runoff has to be very controlled so um you know as a city we have to be very careful with Contracting anyone you know with doing composting so so perhaps maybe the direct I don't know how you guys feel but maybe the direction would be create a few more Community composting centers because we only have two yeah so we have we have two now and we're putting a third one in mid Beach um the the issue some of the challenges are just having space right so you do need that space um single family homes how big of this uh a few thousand square feet uh single family homes you know we've gotten feedback they don't want to be near them um parks that are next to homes they've you know also given feedback they don't want it near them so it really needs a lot of space and that that is something that just really has to be has to be tackled uh we did find one location we think it's really going to work in mid Beach uh which is the parking lot uh on 41st in Chase that's on the Tatum waterway in the middle there's a really nice area and it's got trees and it's kind of near the schools so teachers could even come and bring their kids there to take a look at it and it's also there's a lot of um lot of walking in the area a lot of people so we think that's really a really nice location for that and the backyard composting is a great way too because people control what goes into the compost um and they can utilize it for their own soil okay through the chair Madam Vice chair um just uh an idea I have at home um a composting a countertop composting electric device it looks like a big rice cooker it's called Lomi Lomi and you basically put in whatever you want and you can set it to three things you can just incinerate it so it's small and doesn't take up a lot of space SP in in your trash can but you can also set it to cook lower and slower and then put it into your plants or you know it's no smell none of that stuff and so I have no idea if they do anything on a bigger scale or if they're looking to expand to that or whatever but it it might be worth you know checking out the website putting in a phone call who knows maybe there there's I think at smaller scale there's a lot of great um opportunities out there um it's a lot easier so U mad Madam Vice chair perhaps we could entertain a motion where staff could look at certain ideas uh number one the idea of having a facility here at City Hall I think that could align well with the vision that mayor Miner had when he initiated this very environmentally um uh friendly uh idea to for for the potential of a composing uh program um you know we can also ask staff to look into the feasibility of reaching out uh to the waste haulers um and seeing the feasibility of incorporating that into into any solicitation uh as some sort of of incentive or or extra points uh that uh that that a potential vendor could potentially have in in the future and any other ideas you know locations uh you know come back to to us with other locations uh that could be considered uh for the expansion of composting here in Miami Beach uh perhaps uh even um you know can we acquire some of these uh is there is there a mechanism to acquire any composting um equipment that then we that if we purchase at uh at a reduced rate because we're selling it at a we're we're purchasing it at a at a bulk quantity we can then resell at a reduced rate to our to our residents uh to to to help them um uh compost at home and and and promote this idea of composting and taking taking it to these sites so perhaps we could ask staff to review these ideas study them and come back to us with a more uh tailored proposal yeah uh at a future meeting and and you know the the site at City Hall maybe we can do that in conjunction with the botanic Garden which is already doing composting right and so it's not one more thing for City Hall to be doing but it is um it's an easier way to collect what we're discarding in city hall and then it just goes over quickly to to um the Botanical Garden so it wouldn't necessarily be intended to be an additional site because it's a block away but just to a receiving facility yeah almost yeah we could we'd be happy to speak with them if they would want to come pick up the food waste and compost there is that's what you're saying that's what I'm saying yeah we could speak with them and see if they would you know we just have something in the the loading dock area that that's where it all gets dumped at the end of the day and it's contained and out of the way and okay all right so with that uh when could you come back to us um a couple months would be great so let's say the June meeting the May or June meeting let's say the May meeting if you need more time you can always request more time and we can then place it in the June meeting okay perfect okay great thank you so much and thank you mayor Miner uh for this uh wonderful idea uh with that um Mr director let's introduce item number eight okay Mr chair um item number eight is to discuss design declining Resort tax revenues and full-time resident population okay this item was uh sponsored by commissioner magazine and commissioner Suarez I see commissioner magazine is on Zoom um commissioner magazine are your your hand is not raised so I'm going to recognize um or I I don't know if you wish to speak on this item you know what Alex I appreciate it since commissioner Suarez is there in person I'll turn it over to him to present perfect great well it is St Joseph's day and I know that that uh that that you are indeed Joseph magazine so uh wishing you a happy St Joseph's Day and uh with that I'm going to uh defer to commissioner Suarez to present this item yeah you know I we Miami Beach is the only city in our County that has lost residents um over the last couple years and so um you know I I think um I think we we really need to put our perspective in line of what kind of City we aim to be in the next 10 20 years um is are we going to you know continue to lose full-time residence and replace it with tourists um and certainly I I I don't I don't have that opinion I I want to see our resident population bounce back and be more resident focused um and so you know um I I think know I I think we we we want to have a greater I don't think this is time or place but I think we need to have a greater discussion on what kind of city do we want to be in the ne in the decades to come and you know that's why I co-sponsored this item because I I I truly believe that we're on the um precip precipice of of changing our brand from a party all night town to a more resident Centric City and so um welcome to hear what my colleagues have to say about that and thank you commissioner Suarez and commissioner magazine for for bringing this item to the agenda um before recognizing commissioner Dominguez and then the vice chair I do want to say that we did have a special meeting of the land use and sustainability Committee just a few weeks ago to look specifically at what could be perhaps one of the driving forces in part to the reduction of our population which are Hotel uses and the acquisition of of of residential property being being rezoned uh into transient uses uh then minimizing the housing stock and the housing inventory for full-time residents um and we're going to have be having a follow-up discussion on some of these matters at a certain date and not sure Mr Mooney if we know the date of that followup meeting at this time yeah I believe that um por of that agenda were combined into one item that is going to come back to you at your May meeting at our May meeting so so at our May meeting we're going to have a discussion as as it relates to the components having to do with transient uses and hotel uses uh but certainly uh we need to look at how do we on the other end of it uh build the city that we want to be so build a city that provides for more housing opportunities more full-time uh residents uh and so commissioner uh Dominguez uh you're recognized to speak on that thank you very much uh M Mr chair um so I I think it was at a either Finance meeting or previous commission meeting that we had our CFO Jason Green talk about the um Resort tax revenues and he explained that our numbers were strong and healthy and uh we were in good shape there the number of full-time residents it's exactly what uh the chair said uh there were a number of uh buildings residential buildings and different projects in North Beach at least a dozen that were scooped up people were priced out and buildings were in the process of going up and I think they're off shortterm rentals it's um devastating it's very sad uh that that's happening up in North Beach but I know that so many people were priced out during that time um but I share your concern and I think that um it's important to have a balance and residents quality of life comes first and with that I'll looking forward to hearing from the vice chair M Vice sure you're recognized thank you and commissioner Dominguez thank you for teeing that up so nicely um I share commissioner Suarez and Magazine's concerns about this Joe and I would speak about it a lot when we're on the planning board together together before we were elected officials and we were still allowed to talk about strategic ideas um without calling meetings um but you know I think this is a big conversation we've all had along the way um as residents as as candidates um on various boards and I think it actually ties in very neatly to one of the earlier items we heard today about pulling together the um the report on what we can handle as a city where we can uh find new opportunities to develop where we are oversaturated what we can support from our roads and infrastructure Etc um it is a bigger conversation it is definitely a strategic conversation because if we are relying on our Resort tax income to do everything we want to do as a city for our residents and we have fewer residents and and more Resort tax income something's a miss right so we're going to need to figure out how do we supplement the the the funds if we are um not having so much come in from Resort tax income where and how and what kind of development do we want and how do we make it um how do we make the city the kind of city where we all want to live I mean you've heard me say this a million times before but you've got a plan for the city you want not react to the city you have um I sent an article this weekend to a few people I think in the planning department and some actually just sent it to me this morning and I can um share it to anybody who's interested um about what keeps Paris Paris right um and the surprising answer was government subsidized affordable housing but not the Cabrini Green type of affordable housing but buildings being built or bought and rented out below market so that the guy who owns The Patisserie below and the bonger next to that and the framing shop and the yoga studio all live within the neighborhood they're not spending three hours on a on a Subway or a Metro which we don't even have um to get into work and that what makes a community a community is people being able to live and work and send their kids to school and get to you know get to their Entertainment movie theaters or you know whatever without having Herculean efforts made so we don't want to turn into Monaco where this is a place where only people who buy $20 million Apartments can for to live we don't want this to become um short-term Rental central more so than it already is and our hands are tied on that so I don't think any of us here have the answers because as you very adeptly said uh commissioner Suarez you know we're at the mercy of Tallahassee and things that we know are better for our city we're not allowed to do so love this idea of getting into the numbers and the weeds with in conjunction with the the report that we're going to commission and then when we have all that let's have a big robust conversation about what we can do where it makes sense to do it and how best to go about doing it um because that's how we get to where we want to be not where we are thank you madam Vice chair uh I think one of the things that we need to do as a community um is we've identified areas we want to protect that's very important knowing areas where we clearly tell developers hands off over here because we want to protect this and if you want to do anything here has to be within the context of preservation and preserving character not just of the building of the area and its scale and its size uh and its quality of life I think together with that what is appropriate is to say not withstanding the fact that we want you to be hands off over here these are the areas over here so don't touch here because we want to preserve this but we're more open to discuss development in these other areas and I think that that's something that we need to do we for example for me and I've mentioned it already a few times I think 17th Street 17th Street is on a main Corridor of of our city it is not a his generally speaking is not a historic district certainly when you get further east you do enter you know the the uh the ardal district um and certainly it you know you do have on further further west it does it is at the perimeter of the Palm View District but between that you have a lot of space where you could have potential for Housing Development and to me it makes sense because it's 17th Street it's a main thorir it's a main thorir where where we can facilitate public transportation uh that could connect to other public transportation options that could be coming in the future on Washington Avenue that connects to to to to to other lines that may run an Alton Road you know it it does create opportunity and so and so I think number one I think just putting everything else aside we need a master for 17th Street but but further than that we need to identify those areas in our city where we do want the market to know we are open to development in these areas for as long as you protect those areas over there we want to incentivize development here we have capacity for it here we're willing to be creative go go up and height and be flexible with some standards so that we can create the availability of housing that we need in our city um and and and I think we need to identify those areas uh so that so that the industry knows okay it's not that Miami Beach doesn't want development it's that Miami Beach wants the right type of development in the right areas of its City and I think we need to be communicating that because we often say the city that we want don't want to be but we don't message enough the city that we do want to be and I think we need to work a bit on messaging then Madam Vice chair you're recognized thank you I I want to be clear if anybody's listening to this now or in the future we're not suggesting any particular neighborhoods are going to be the sacrificial Lambs to development of course not um this would be you know I I I want us to be really nuanced and careful um we also don't want to like wave the starting flag for the Indie 500 of development land rush because we don't know look we might be at capacity and maybe it's not developing new maybe it's redeveloping and repurposing older stuff that exists or reconfiguring it we just don't know but we do know that to make our city what we want we need more diverse housing stock so it's not just you know um unattainable single family homes $20 million apartments or tiny apartments that are on their last legs and I know there's a lot in between there but not enough um and so we need to be really mindful that when we get this information that we're going to hopefully get commissioned in this report and we do we kind of marry that with with these numbers and we also talk about you know the bay link and its current iteration is not something that we think is right for our city but public transportation is a need that we do need to recognize and we need to figure out what will be the right thing for our city and that needs to be a part of the conversation and also if we're going to transition away from um transient industry then we need to figure out what is going to take its place and we have a lot of really beautiful Class A office space coming online and we need to make sure that that works and we need to make sure that retail comes back flourishing and there's you know everything that you could need or want is here so that we pick our numbers back up we we become the city we know we should be and not try to um pick up the pieces of where we are now thank you Madame Vice chair commissioner Suarez yeah so look you know I think moving forward I think we should have we should have continuing discussions on this and um you know I I don't think our city should go should grow through more hotels you know and I think at our L use our last L use meeting we discussed this there's going to be I believe an item brought for brought back but you know I Echo what commissioner bot said is that you know we need more places for people to live here because you know everyone on this campaign that I knocked on the number one issue single-handedly was traffic and traffic is never going to be solve with a silver bullet there's not going to be one solution to fix it it's going to be a multi-prong approach to really tackling that and I mean if you ask if you go on 41st Street and you pull the people hey why are you on the car why are you going why are you going back to the mainland and a lot of them would say you know that's where I live and so you know I think as we move forward in the city and on this uh on this commission I think it's important to continuously discuss you know how do we want to move forward with the city and and bring bring forward more incentives for residential housing and less incentives for hotels and transient use and so I think this is a good good starting point for discussions and I'm I'm I'm glad I'm on anuse to to to share with you guys okay great so so thank you uh commissioner Suarez does that mean we are going to close this item is there is there any additional follow-up I uh action we we have items having to do with transient uses are going to be coming back um is there any action that we want a request from the administration as a result of this item other than this discussion I I don't think there's anything required at this time I think it'll be very interesting to see when we get the report back that we're talking about when we um sort of process what we're going to be doing about hotel use versus residential incentivization that this becomes you know the page that the couple of pages that we continue to refer to as part of that discussion and I think commissioner Suarez is absolutely right that this needs to be be an ongoing discussion whether it's here or at the commission or both or other places as well um in in the absence of a full-on strategic meeting you know vision of the city going forward 10 20 30 years um this is a very good starting point perfect thank you so at this point um and and I and and listen I I think I think we all uh took a position uh not too long ago to to oppose uh the current mod uh the locally prer pre preferred alternative for for for connecting the mainland to to to Miami Beach uh and there are you know housing components tied to that um uh it's it's all very interconnected the issues with traffic and all that but I do think that just in general the conversation that we have had on hotels the study that we've requested um and analyzing you know and Mr Mr planning director you know I think you're going to have to guide this committee how do we move forward uh in identifying which areas we want to encourage for development um and um and and the type of development and looking at Master plans for certain areas uh that that that would incorporate housing uh I think you're going to have to guide this committee on that so that we can start bringing forward the right items that prioritize um you know more housing Redevelopment as opposed to transient Redevelopment so so you are our guide on this you are our expert on this and I ask you to you know to meet with me so that we can start bringing forward the right items to help us with it and certainly I think the study we we we request it it's going to help us with it okay yes sir and um just before we close this out Mr chair um I took a look at the after action for the meeting where this item was referred and one thing that we didn't mention in the memo was that as part of this referral uh commissioner Rosen Gonzalez had requested that we take a look at eliminating transient use zoning or transient uses in the North Beach town center however that was part of our discussion at the March 5th meeting and we were directed uh to come back with some recommendations for very specific areas we're actually going to be meeting with the North Beach CRA regarding that so that will be coming back is one of the separate items thank you so much and and I'll ask staff you know especially the city attorney's office as their crafting referrals and making and working on legislation on behalf of Commissioners you know guide us because a lot of times you know we're hearing from the community on ideas and and suggestions and General Vision for the future of the city and you know we'll all approach the city attorney's office requesting legislation and stuff that one of our colleagues might already be working on and so I think we just need the city attorney's office to guide us if the other item was already working on that you know we don't need two or three simultaneous items moving forward at the same time uh it's just not an efficient use of staff's time okay with that let's uh let's close this item uh and proceed with introducing item number nine and then we have item number 11 and then we'll be done with today's agenda okay uh Mr chair item number nine is to review codes sections relating to the expiration of land use board orders thank you uh Mr director this is a referral I placed on the agenda to uh you know review current regulations pertaining to the expiration of of land use uh board orders um you know specifically planning board historic preservation board boa drb um you know I want us to discuss whether there should a maximum period of time to obtain a building permit uh after individuals have have received these these these board orders and not just a building permit uh because sometimes it's easy to get the building permit and keep it active but you know they they'll here's my frustration individuals come forward and go to the planning board or go to the RB or somewhere they get an approval then they just flip it you know they just you know they they used the process the Public's process occupy staff time and occupy the board's times and often causing delays to other applicants that are on the Queue only so that they can get an approval and then flip a property at a profit with the approval that they just got and that's and that's a concern I've had so Mr director you've prepared an item a memo uh could you please uh I wish to recognize you so that so you can guide us on this and give us your recommendations sure currently under the ldrs and this has been in place for some time whenever there is an application approved by one of our L use board such as the design review board the historic preservation board the planning board there is a requirement that the full building permit associated with that land use board order be obtained within 18 months there is also a provision Vision that allows that land use board to extend that period of time by up to one year so in totality most development projects that they get an extension of time have 30 months um in our experience 18 months is a fairly tight time frame for someone to get oftentimes financing get their working construction drawings put together submitted for permit and obtain the permit and in most instances if the if they're serious about moving forward with the project they'll typically ask for an extension of time however over the last six or seven years there's been a new Dynamic that has come into the mix and that has been the governor signed state of emergency extensions which preempt our time frames to obtain a building permit and in a lot of instances these development orders and sometimes building permits are extended in additional 2 three 4 for in some cases five six seven additional years because of all of these State extensions and that's is something that unfortunately we are preempted by and so even if the even if we were to reduce the time frame to obtain a building permit uh any future State extensions would preempt that regulation but by and large we do think that the current 18-month period is a fair amount of time for somebody to to obtain a full building permit so at this point your recommendation is given to State preemption that allows people just to continue extending it that it just doesn't make sense right now to shorten the window of time essentially yes okay commissioner Suarez you recognized okay um with that I think we can consider this item heard and closed uh is really we our our hands are are tied on this so let's uh close this item uh and proceed with item number 10 was deferred and we can move on to item number 11 okay Mr chair the last item number 11 is to discuss the New York short-term rental law pass to New York City known as local law 18 okay um with this this was sent to me um uh by by by arrested Elizabeth Lon and I know she's uh she's watching the the meeting and and and in Ence uh you know local law 18 was uh was passed by New York and it imposes uh restrictions to nearly ban short-term rentals for for many host and guests and mandates host to register with the with the uh City to reside in in the property they're the renting and limits the number of guests to two uh and there's and from what I've he there's been a tremendous success in New York uh with this with this model so much so that residents Elizabeth Laton and others have been reaching out to us and asking us what can we do about this and so I want to recognize our City attorney to uh guide us on what uh local law 18 does and how could a city like Miami Beach uh Implement something like this sure thank you Mr chairman so um what what New York City did with with local law 18 is is uh impose significant restrictions on the rental of residential units on a short-term basis um restricting the number of guests to two people per unit but most importantly requiring uh the the owners to uh to be on site while uh the property or part of the property is rented um The Challenge obviously as this committee is is aware in in doing something similar in Florida is that state law prohibit preempts us from prohibiting uh or regulating the duration or frequency of of vacation rentals so um you know anywhere in the city where short-term rentals are currently permitted we are preempted from from imposing any new restrictions what the city commission has done on registrations well on we have a registration requirement in our code but that's because our because ours predates uh certain preemptions well the registration requirement was not uh until this legislative session the registration requirement um was not preempted this what state law preempts us from doing is prohibiting or regulating the duration or frequency of a vacation rental um we had you know historically we've not been preempted from from from imposing a registration requirement there was a bill passed by both houses this session in 2024 um that would allow you know continue to allow us to require registration but but impose limitations on us and that bill has not been um has not yet been signed by the governor and what are the limitations that is going to impose on us if you if you are aware of on the registrations um I I would want to look at that more closely and bring that back to you I mean it has it it in some ways it's consistent with what we do um in in other ways it's not you know for instance on the on the registration fee that we impose um but but you know we can we limit the amount of guests uh the way that uh that that New York does we do now um I don't believe the new bill is stricter on that point but I would want to look at that and get back to you okay all right so so so perhaps we could look at restricting the amount of cuts further but you're going to research that you'll get back to to the committee uh can can we require someone to live on a property that is being uh used as a short-term rental I don't believe we can under state law no okay no all right is there anything else that the that local law 18 in New York does that we could potentially do here size uh putting limitations on the amount of gust per unit not that I'm aware of Mr chairman I mean the the the the commission has been most successful in addressing um short-term rentals you know moving forward is sort of you know as a disincentive as as as adopting zoning incentives to convert transient to non-transient so but so let's look at what we can do in terms of occupancy short-term rentals what are our current regulations what further would the state allow us to to do and maybe we can work on something to bring back to the committee as it relates to occupancy if necessary uh before we close out this item I see we have a member of the public with their hand raised Elizabeth Lon you have two minutes and then I'll close the public hearing and we can close the meeting hi everyone hi Nick um miners understanding from the state I don't know why I'm echoing but my understanding from the new Florida law is that we can it's not required but we can Implement a registration and we can ask that there be someone be be contactable 24 hours a day um also we can but it's not required limit how many people for instance per square feet uh or per square foot so I would just ask that that that be looked into also and if you'd like my help I'll be happy to help you thank you Mr Lon we already require registration and we already uh limit occupancy but we're going to look at what further we can do as it relates to that Mr attorney as to what the caller reference as to contact info can we require for there to be contact information yes and we do we do okay so so so okay so we'll we'll look further as as to uh as to the occupancy because it seems like that is the area where we could have more room for for for making something perhaps stricter okay okay thank you Miss Lon thank you all right okay with that uh is there any other uh information yes Mr director yeah just for clarity purposes Mr chair on item number 11 uh you want that uh brought back at the May meeting or the June meeting um no let's come back uh at the May meeting okay I I think that that's to bring back at the May meeting um with that we have no other items on the agenda I do want to take a moment of personal privilege uh because uh this this I believe is the land is the last land use meeting of our esteemed uh City attorney Nick ceris who is uh the uh our our attorney over all land use matters here in the city of Miami Beach and uh I've had the distinct privilege of working with unck for many years as a resident uh as an employee of the city as a member of the Char of review task force and the planning board and now my capacity as commissioner and in this unique capacity as chair of this committee and I can um you know say without a doubt that you have been such a true value added to our city such a dedicated public servant with such a high level of integrity and dedication to the work that you do for the taxpayers of this city uh looking after the interest of our residents uh in everything that you do and your breath of knowledge on all issues having to do from land use to ethics uh is going to be such a value added to Miami day County and to that very highly esteemed office you're heading over to I couldn't think of a better fit our loss is there again but you will certainly be be missed on this side of the bay and so grateful for your public service thank you Mr chairman I appreciate that it's been it's been an honor and and really the privilege of of of my life and my professional career to to to serve the city so thank you thank you um we have Applause in the audience there you go there we [Applause] go with that uh uh we have no other items on the on the agenda so we can adjourn this meeting thank you all for your [Music] participation