okay okay good evening I call this meeting to order uh in accordance with Section Five of the old meetings act chapter 231 public laws 1975 be advis at notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board town hall and serving the officially designated newspapers a notice stating that this meeting would take place at Town Hall at 7:30 p.m. on May 2nd 2024 uh first we'll start with um a roll call right yeah so Mrs handfield is absent Mr Davis here Mr Franco here Mrs gayor here Mrs black here Mrs Wanga is absent Mr Jenkins here and Mr cin is absent so yeah my my name is Zach Davis I'm the vice chair and I'm taking uh well be running the meeting in chair Canfield's absence tonight uh the first order business is to swear in our alternate number two uh venkatesh chat bada um Class C and uh I'll leave that to council will you stand and raise your right hand please um repeat after me uh say your name after I say the word I I vesh do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution I will support the Constitution of the United States of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of the state of New Jersey that I will bear truth faith and allegiance that I bear truth faith and allegiance to the same to the same and to the governments established and to the governments established in the united states in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and I will faithfully and then I will faithfully impartially impartially and justly and justly perform the duties perform the duties of the members member of historic preservation Commission of the member of historic preservation Committee of the township of Melbourne of the township of mland according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability thank you congratulations thank you congratulations welcome all right so that is the business of approving member all right so now we're going to uh approve the meeting minutes from last month April uh those were circulated and everyone hopefully had a chance to review them are there any comments on the meeting minutes so can we take a a vote on who can approve those that can is um Mr Jenkins yes and Mrs GL um I I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of the April 4th meeting can I have the second so assing uh yeah unan great okay so thank you for that uh Now we move on to new business and I'm going to note that a few items are going to be carried to next month uh starting with the first item the motion on the proposed Marywood notingham local historic district we'll be carrying that uh discussion to next month given the absence of chair Canfield tonight um so that'll be June um number two number 5741 121 Highland Avenue block 2201 Lot 8 contributing property Short Hills Park historic district uh that application is being carried to next month so that is um that'll be for June and chair that's carried without further notice without further notice no further public notice okay all right so we'll hear that next month um item number three application number 575 85 Stewart Road Block 3103 lot five contributing property to the sh Hills Park historic district this item is also being carried without further notice correct uh to the next month's meeting in June so uh moving along item number four this is application number 569 141 Forest Drive uh block 3004 Lot number three this is a non-contributing property to the Short Hills Park historic district Richard and Stephanie gelin applicants uh this is a regulatory application for the tear down of an existing house due to fire damage and construction of a new single family residence with other exterior site visits so those who are here please come forward to be sworn in oh they're not here sorry I to uh can we just on yeah all right so we'll move we'll move on to the next application and come back all right moving quickly through our agenda this is great you know I move things along all right uh number uh fight five on our our list here application number 579 91 Western Drive block 2202 lot 9 this is a contributing property to the Short Hills Park historic district uh 91 Western EC and 91 Western B LLC Al pint regulatory application for renovations and construction of a rear addition Carriage House and Breezeway with other Associated exterior site improvements so you're are here so those who wish to present needs to be swor in I'm the attorney for the ls do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will provide on the application tonight to the commission will be Elana e l w i l uh Mark Don D hm attorney for the llc's okay you can proceed with your presentation I'm here because the llc's need to be represented by an attorney uh the LLCs are 91 Western e LLC and 91 Western B LLC aana willful start uh did just a little background and then John James and Brian HS are gonna speak about the application thanks thank you Mark thank you everyone good evening my name is Elana W and my husband over there Brett tansman and I um are the homeowners at 91 Western Drive um we moved into the home almost nine years ago when I was pregnant with our oldest daughter who is now almost nine years old um and so it's really I mean I just sore to tell the truth my memory is not great I think she's almost nine years old it's coming up soon um and um so we've really been fortunate to live in this amazing Town um and to live in this beautiful home and property um we really um have treasured our time here um and have put you know our time effort into keeping the home and improving the property um to you know adapt to our growing family we now have three children um and the presentation that you're going to hear from John James we'll turn it over to in a moment is really to um you know make some changes to the home to adapt to our growing family um to change some bathrooms um to add a garage structure as you'll hear more from John James and we're hoping that this just enhances the property keeps it um you know in in keeping with the beautiful historic nature of the home that we fell in love with um and enables us to continue to enjoy it for many many years with our growing family um so thank you all for your time I'll turn it over to John I have a whole set of boards that I'm going to present that are the same as the drawings you have um Mr Jam there's nothing new that I need to Mark as an exhibit yes I'm going to mark this multiple okay um so we'll call it A1 yes and thank you and this will the rest of the drawings that I'm going to present tonight are the same that were included in a filing packet as well as the photographs included there also um the tanman residence is located at 91 Western Drive in Short Hills it is designated property in the Short Hills Park historic district it was built in 1911 in a Dutch colonial revival style the main feature of the house is a Gamel roof design thus the Dutch colonial revival style and it is a white clabbered house um with a brick foundation and a slate roof and we will be matching all of the existing materials in the house with the new work and we have a photograph at the end of our um packet that we gave to you that shows a lot of that detail and lists all the things that we're going to be matching I'll go through that later on the unusual feature of this house though is that it's cited um on a very high property close to the street it's probably three stories above Western drive and you have to enter from a driveway along the side and you really arrive at the house at the back of the house so you come from Western drive and you arrive here so essentially in this house the back of the house is the front of the house and very few guests arrive at the front door unless they walk completely around the house once they've driven up the driveway because nobody can walk up the heavily planted Hill to the front door so the front door that we're showing you in these renderings is kind of an unseen site um for all the neighbors or for um um any visitors that house and you can see that the side view showing the front of the house um the additions we're doing there in the back of the house and are trying to accommodate this new entry to the main house so the main emphasis of this project is to create a courtyard in the back for entering for the family and for guests and we're also trying to update the house for the tanon family they three young children and to try to make the house more connected to the rest of the property so we're doing a courtyard and Landscaping and new rooms along the back of the house that have a lot of glass that will face The Gardens and the yard um we've been before this board a couple times before we were here in 2016 for poolhouse approval um and received that unanimously and you can see that it is a it is a structure is very similar to the Gamel Center portion of the new Carriage House that we're creating as a part of the addition for this house we also received approval for um New Stone peers and Gates and that was in 2020 and so now we're ready to kind of work on the rest of the house and complete the house renovations itself and to try to create the master plan for the Landscaping as well um 91 Western Drive is a really beautiful property it was a part of a much larger estate originally and but it still has the main pool and it has the arbor structure from that previous estate and you can see that on the site plan Brian's going to talk more about that in the Landscaping but you can see that back here and so we've assembled the same team that worked on the other couple of projects to work on the house as well and we intend to treat the house in the same way that we treated the previous Renovations in terms of matching and adapting to this house um I'd like to say that for this proposal that we're doing um there no zoning variances required for any of the work um we're way under on building coverage we're at 7.2% we're at 13% is required so we're almost at 50% um for lot coverage we're at 31.2% we're 35 5% is allowed so we're 10% under the allowable there 3 and a half% and the floor area ratio is at 99.9% where 25% is allowed so relative to the property and what we're doing this is not a major renovation relative to this house these are more major because it's going to transform the way this family uses the house um and towards that end I want to go through all the drawings and kind of show you what we're doing so on the site plan you can see the driveway comes in from the street and when you've driven up the driveway and through the entrance Gates view number one that I showed you in the perspectives is the side view of the house and this volume of the house is remaining totally unchanged but we are taking the previous garage and we're making that a family room with a kitchen and we're putting new bathroom bathroom windows up above but the rest side the overall shape of the house and the volume of the house is totally the same as you come closer towards the back you can see view number two on the perspectives and this shows you at the driveway scene where the old garage new family room is you're seeing a new carriage house at the end of the driveway view number three is from back in the yard we we cut out a bunch of Brian's trees so that you'd actually be able to see the house through the trees but you can see the existing house structure the new addition at the back and the carriage house on the right hand side and then view number four is showing the DU that no one really sees this is the front Gamal roof of the house and you can see the Breezeway the enclosed Breezeway and the carriage house here on the left of the house so when we go back to the site plan the main structure of the house is here in an L shape we have an addition here behind and we have the carriage house here so that the end of the driveway you can drive directly into it and then the Breezeway gives you a connection back into the main portion of the house um for entry and for all the services that you need we go to the floor plans there's really much too much to talk about the basement we will probably build a full Foundation underneath the new additions on the back of the house because it's normally better to dig a full foundation and be directly adjacent to the existing footings of the main house instead of having to do any under P or anything like that on the first floor of the house you can see here we've kept all the main rooms along the front of the house the breakfast room the dining room the mean entry the living room and the study and what we're working on is we're closing the existing garage and turning that into a family room that's connect Ed to an expanded kitchen and then we're building these services along the back of the house this is a unique house in a way and that all of the rooms go front to back and you can only circulate through the room so upstairs the problem with the bedroom and bathrooms is the hallway is always between everything so we're doing some services on the back of the house we have a pantry we're stacking closet so we can have a future elevator so this can be a house that you can age gracefully in at any age it also provides access for grandparents and other visitors um powder room and we have kind of a greenhouse Conservatory piece with the glass that looks out towards the yard and then there's a Breezeway connection to the three-car garage here up on the second floor we did the same thing in terms of maintaining all the manger rooms the primary bedroom and the other three children's bedrooms here but instead of keeping the hall away we've moved the bathrooms adjacent to all the bedrooms and we have an upstairs family room playroom and the circulation goes through that room instead of having a hallway and that's along the back and has Windows that Overlook the courtyard and also look out to the arbor and to the pool in the back and then you can see the one-story connection to the carriage house over here and you can see you know we're updating all the bathrooms and the laundry room but all the main rooms in the house are staying where they were before we look at the elevations for the facade on drawing 820 you can see the front facade is pretty much as it was before and you can see the addition with the um Breezeway on the left hand side and Carriage Houses then further behind that um we're changing a couple of Windows replacement windows on the front of the house and we are replacing the front door it's an Old Dutch door that's kind of falling apart so we're going to recreate that um to match exactly what it is but it'll be a newly functioning door and we have a couple good Door manufacturers that can do that um you can then see on the back of the house the opposite side here's the Gamel shape that's on the existing garage which is now the family room you can see the new addition in between here directly behind the back of the house and at the edge of that we created another small Gamel which is over a part of the conservatory here and here this is that upstairs family room that looks out and then this is the one-story Breezeway connecting here to the garage structure if you look at drawing 821 this shows the existing side of the house here which we saw in the entryway perspective and you can see here this is this is where the existing breakfast room is this is the existing primary bedroom suite primary bathroom laundry room guest room this is the new windows in the um existing garage which is becoming the family room and we're replacing the windows and adapting those in the kitchen for the new kitchen layout the overall roof line shaped cables is completely the same as it was so really the front two facades of the house that you see are largely untouched and the addition is wedged back in the inner part of that L shape and then if you look at the other end of the house um you can see the Gamel shape of the main house here we added a third window in the Bas down below for the study to bring in a little more light and then you can see here is the connection through the Breezeway this is the addition on the back of the house right here and then we're looking at the existing wall of the far part of the house which has the upstairs um study it has the guest bedroom this is the new family room and the kitchen entry door there we also did drawings of the carriage house as well and what we're creating here the existing house has what's called a two-car garage but it can really only hold one car it's not wide enough so if you pull two cars in you can't open the doors um we're creating a three-car garage um we're in a fourcc car Zone but that would be too large for the property so we settled at a three car garage because that would fit in the edge of the courtyard it's a twostory structure and it connects with a one-story Breezeway back to the main house and the interesting part that Brian's going to talk about is you're able to enter the cars on grade here and because of the steep slope of the S site at that point we have an exercise room with a bedroom and bathroom above it you're able to go out the back door here and step down just a couple of steps to grade so while it appears as twostory on the renderings on the inside you can see that on the renderings of the outside here as the hill steps up that it turns into a one-story structure facing uh the side yard um this also includes a stair and a closet that could have a future left if necessary um and you can see here on drawing go2 these are the elevations with the carriage style doors and the gam shape in the middle we're replicating the same type of Dormers from the main house on the sides um we're carrying the Gamel shape through for the main part of that house which is similar to the front of the main house with it cam roof um and then here you can see down at the bottom left um the rear elevation that's where it steps out onto the upper yard behind it we have um elevations of all the Breezeway we just did separate ones so that you would be able to see the different glass in the house the idea is to give a transparent but um an enclosure between the garage and the house so you can actually Park your cars in there and use it all the time and this shows all the briway elevations relative to the house and drawings and then I have existing drawings showing the existing house itself I'm not sure it's really you really need to see that um in the application package that we previously submitted there were several photos of the existing house and and the grounds around it and you can see how much of that we're maintaining the last one of those photographs which was photograph number see I got the windows hardw like this at the very end of the packet and what it really talks about is the existing details that we're matching on the house and it shows a picture of the back of the house with the slate roof of the snow guards the copper built in and the exposed half round gutters the painted Cedar clapboard and the siding and the trim the painted wood shutters the double Hong and casement windows and the wood and glass doors and those are all of the type of elements that we're going to be matching in the new work so that it feels complimentary um to the old house um I think that's about it for now um are there any questions did you have other things you want to present on the landscaping or yes I do I mean do you want to ask me questions let Brian do the Landscaping first and then we you can run through your presentation we follow question great [Music] okay so I I think we've gotten an overview of the structure what I'd like to do there are two parts to what I'd like to review with you is one how the new addition relates to the landscape itself both existing and proposed um and also to review uh some Rehabilitation to existing uh wooden structures on the site that we have not touched yet and we're seeking permission basically to uh repair in place in kind with what's there um so if you're looking at the plan itself this is the existing L-shaped house that we've been referring to this racing shape here is the counter l so what John has done is created an L shape and closed it to make kind of a courtyard space which naturally forms a nice Courtyard rectangle um and we've used that to form a center line between this space to uh create a new set of stairs that leads up from the courtyard up to the existing landscape we're trying really to disturb as little as possible into this Hillside this plan here shows uh a very large white oak which dominates the exact center of the property which we want to preserve um we've done uh the construction of uh the pool house we kept purposely very far away from this and everything that we've done is to preserve that Center Tree the canopy itself is absolutely gigantic and so it's it's really the Lynch pin of the property um what we're showing on uh the backside like John was alluding to obviously the structure hugs very close to the ground on the rear of the uh uh elevation of the garage which allows you to step down only a number of steps to be at grade already so it's a very different experience on the front of the structure from the rear um it's an old Bank house basically it keeps very cool it's like a a barn type of style um and what that does is it allows the person on the second floor to be much more agreed and much more connected to the ground even though you're not on the ground floor so I'm just showing here you know a placeholder but you know there might be a garden of some sort a vegetable garden or something like that um it might just be a lawn so I'm trying to show enough that explains you know that they're trying to embrace I think what Brett and Lana have done you know beautifully is to engage the the land in a very effortless Gentle Touch sort of way and I think we're trying to make the property feel as if it's always been that way even though we are creating you know an addition to the house um following through here what we're doing this is the glass Breezeway we're just creating a system of smaller walkways that connect those spaces together um and we're trying to create an event here in the center let me switch to the more detailed drawing this gives the overview but we're really only talking about a very small portion of the property right here that we're actually engaging right now so that's what this second drawing is so it's just a detail obviously of this area and even tighter drawing here shows more the red box is really the area that we're working inside of um so part of what we're trying to do here is to create a private play Space where when the packages and deliveries and everything else stays out here and like John also mentioned you need an area to turn around and to keep Vehicles because there is such I think it's a 35 foot grade change from the street all the way on up um this driveway actually even feels separate from the house itself which is a nice feeling that you're not sure where that leads exactly um so what we're trying to do is create a more of a private Court air space here that's for active play for children you know roller skating those type of activities where there's no danger of any sort of you know the mail there's package deliveries all that sort of thing they're involved in Modern Life um so that's what we want to keep out this space here what we're showing in this space is a sunken generator air conditioning area so again to try to be as small as possible I believe that's what this is illustrating right here um so that it's below grade and that all of the utilities air conditioners everything are out of sight and this is a very Central space to the house so we're trying to make it look very gardenesque in that location again you know I'm trying to be to offer ideas without being hypers specific and tying them to them but this is a very Central spot on the main axis of the house and on the main axis of the addition so it's a natural place to do some sort of garden itself whether it's a circle whether it's a formal Garden it's really yet to be determined but again I wanted to show the way the structure would be engaging with the property um and then this is just completing uh a way that you're able to circumnavigate around the structure itself um being able to get around the house easily in a way that you know predict that you're being able to come back out the other side is is a nice reassuring thing both for service and also just for the different spaces of the house um I don't think there's too much more I'm happy to answer questions but I just wanted to show you roughly what we're doing here so let me switch over to the second part of what I wanted to show you which is the existing structures that are on the property sorry that we're so just revisiting the overall this is a historic structure uh that was actually part of a larger piece of property so this structure here has its reciprocal part on this side and this is a centerpiece of the whole larger Garden so half of the old historic Garden resides on the tman property so it consists of two pieces there's this part which is an arched colonade with existing stucco and brick Piers um and then there is a trellis on top of it um what I'd like to point out and I think you'll see in the photographs is the old trellis has long since disappeared and there have been sex you know subsequent like Restorations but the boards are laid flat instead of the way you'd want the strength to be because it's snuck underneath the vines which is great for preserving The Vines but the space keeps coming down so the state of the actual uh trellis right now is to the point where they're putting 2x4s underneath there to prevent the structure from coming down so it's really something that wants to be addressed as soon as possible what I'm showing here is basically replacing it in kind but trying to be more similar to what I think the original structure would have looked like just using wider pieces of lumber very natural um and just basically trying to preserve the vine that's currently on top of it it's a mix of Wisteria trumpet vine Climbing Hydrangea pretty much everything that we grow is there so what we're trying to do is to work with a um one of the forest companies that we work with that we can build almost one Beam at a time to keep the vine because it's a beautiful Old Vine and to keep it while we're restoring it so this is the arched uh kind of colonade part of it and this is the other part which is just a flat piece which again is the center point of the old Garden but it consists of just four stuck overs and again you can see what exists uh and what we're you know trying to rehabilitate it to um I think we will certainly do some you know historic I know that I've seen pictures in the archives if we can find something to match exactly what it was that you know that would be something that we'd look into um the last exhibit which is in your packet is uh an overview of the existing uh impervious and the proposed impervious coverage um I just wanted to talk about that uh just to show uh what is existing and what is proposed and how uh we underneath the threshold of what's allow by quite a significant portion I'm looking at the numbers here you know we still have about 3700 square feet remaining which is a pretty sizable area so even with you know what is admittedly you know a larger interior Courtyard and in addition you know we still have percent like five or six percentage points of the total property is still uh beneath I think this you know this is the existing which shows the existing uh historic Terrace and the old stucco part these are all the existing pieces this is the current configuration of the courtyard and you can see how we're trying to make a more graceful conclusion to the property and have that private space that's symmetrical inside that we're talking about um I'm trying to keep it brief I don't have the same Sous voice that John James does so I will yield at this point Thank you very thank you well at this point I'll look to my Commissioners if they have any comments of Ken um I just I I just had a question on on the garage it commented about a list is that going to be for people or cars well right now it's going to be a closet oh and it's set up so that it could be a future lift for either people or for um um small car yeah no no no it it won't it's not for cars okay it's not for cars no no no no it's very small it's outside opposite the opposite the stairs it's not inside the garage no we're not lifting cars yeah yeah thank you it's really to try to make all the floors in the house barrier free okay that that that's really the purpose um just one question but the the lift that's in the middle of the house that is being put in though right uh we're going to do it as a big Pantry right now okay and but we're stacking that with a closet up so it could be an elevator at any time okay I got you so the possibility of there being an elevator it's sized for a future elevator but they prefer to have a pantry now and uh they're lucky and they have very young legs and three young children so but really when we're planting a house of the size and things like that's one of the things we always do is try to make it so that the family could age in place there that makes sense okay thank you thank you and on my right anyone have comments or questions I just had one question just to understand on your left side elevation on the window above the uh new entry door is that a canopy or what sheet is that it says left side elevation yes new entry door above the window there is going to be a small canopy above the door but what you're seeing is the bay projection from the second floor up above yeah that's the the bay projection and the sheen will slope back down but you'll see that there's a small flat Cy over the door with a bracket on the left hand side yeah I just I I I was writing stuff down but then as Johnny went through you kept answering my questions was good so you've certainly been here before you know what to present I had questions about um the the elevation of the addition will be slightly lower than the existing looks like by yeah the existing house is about 29 ft tall yeah and the new Carriage House is about 24 feet tall so it's a 5 feet lower in some of the perspectives where you see it closer to you it appears bigger but it is 5T lower than the main house no that that you had an elevation that showed that pretty well um so I don't I don't have any questions I'm just going to read uh the comments from Barton Ross our external um consultant on this he has reviewed I'm assuming you you've been talking so it seems like it there's definitely input uh and I'll just breathe his recommendation saying that you know uh establish bance the HBC seeks to protect and preserve the architectural Heritage and history of the Town by ensuring any new development maintains the character scale and feel of historic buildings to Def find a district because these goals do not appear to be adversely impacted by his application Bart recommends this application be approved any conditions before by the commission so um he's definitely in favor of what you're doing here um I don't necessarily see any um any questions that I have um I will open the um floor up to the public if there's any comments from the public at this time come forward and please uh state your name thank you sure hi uh my name is David schlossman I live 74 Taylor Road so it's on the corner of Taylor and Western so uh our driveway is across Western from the applicants driveway and you know the plants seem very lovely and you know very beautiful and I'm really not here to be a stick in the mud at all uh but I have to disagree with one thing that Mr James said and that this is a major renovation that's going to affect the flow of traffic uh where we live and there's no stop sign at the top of Taylor Road and at times the traffic is routed and we have a lot of traffic on Western uh there's kids going to school and and very often there are people uh walking their dogs on Western all the time so uh what I would like for the sake of safety because it uh there's going to be a lot of activity on the site is for the applicant to apply for uh no parking ordinance on our side of Western from the corner of Taylor to 90 Western I mean we have um worked very closely with the applicant in the past they redid Road on their side of the house and you know we we have done a good job to keep uh keep the traffic moving and I just want to make sure that that uh cooperation continues uh during the construction thank you I think those take into account um but you don't have any comments on the historic character no okay no because say it's above our it's way above the street and probably can't even see it from where we are right okay well thank you for your comment appreciate that okay you're wel okay yep thank you anyone else from the public okay if there's no further uh comments or questions for the Commissioners then do I have a motion to approve the application motion to approve second okay take the vote Mr Davis yes I'm gonna try this Mr T laada yes Mr Franco yes Mrs Gaylord yes Mr Jenkins yes Mrs black yes okay thank you and good luck with that please please heed the concerns of your neighbor as you for thank you all right um so that was number five I believe that we have the applicant for um for 141 Forest is here that's okay we we just uh put you on hold all right so all right so this is uh item number four we're going to go back one step uh application number 569 141 Forest Drive block 3004 lot 3 the non-contributing property to the Short Hills Park historic district Richard and Stephanie gin applicants perfect okay so this is a little different than what I submitted two weeks ago I accidentally duplicated the fourth house and now these have that was yeah okay great you may have noticed there were two of the same house but that's the only change that is that yes that is the only change you want to see this it's up here okay all right uh there was a last time we were here you asked about the surrounding houses so I added that page in and I accidentally in Photoshop yours right there you have two of the same house so now I have the one I missed so so this is a regular application I think you came last month as a you know sort of guidance application right so we are gonna swear you in for this uh for this testimony okay so this is for uh regul application for tear down of existing house due to fire damage and construction of a new single family residence with other site improvements so swear now no melie okay uh raise your hand do you swear orir the testimony provide this application tonight yes great well welcome and uh please proceed with your presentation okay um I'm Melanie Moran from Architects and we're here for our clients um they would like approval to demolish the existing house that was built in the 80s and has suffered from fire damage water damage and build new construction um the new house to should we go through the yes sorry that's okay um the new house is relatively the same size it's a three car garage facing the same way not moving that footprint initially we planned to renovate what was there but upon further investigation it's not in good condition um so we proceeded with a new floor plan um similar in volum we're not seeking any variances we fit under everything for coverage um um and then the second floor there is an attic third floor um with some bedrooms and then this is the front elevation so the materials we've chosen are going to be more in line with the neighborhood slate for the roof stucco um real Field Stone copper red copper roof one of Barton his one recommendation was that we add a chimney which I was happy so we added a chimney um yeah we uh we kind of just wanted to add design something that fit in with the character of the neighborhood better and the Styles and the tutor surrounding neighborhood um go through that's the rear elevation the garage is staying fairly the same massing the house is kind of stay stay proportionally the same we just broke it up with different volumes and tried to make it look a little bit more appealing for the neighborhood there'll be um oral trim painted uh blue stone patios vertical board siding I think all of the materials are in the packet so I think they might have some of the wrong the old um and then there is the yep there's the side yeah there are the materials slate and stone and sto all real materials um this is the massing of the existing house we're removing the circular drive just so that we can kind of use that coverage elsewhere um and then if you go to the proposed it's similar in size we went forward a little bit to give them a little bit more backyard um but the sizing is really the same the driveway is the same the turn into the garage is the same and instead we just made a path to the front door and a little circular Garden pole in the relatively same location uh this is what it the existing house looks like I believe it was 1981 that it was built it's in the application um and internally there is a lot of damage there's the slate grof cuty and then the trim Markin Windows mostly casement I think all casement actually um and then these are there's a MTH with the existing houses around so a lot of the houses in this part of the road have already been replaced um three and four are the ones directly across from it and then the top left is next to it I think that's it okay in here wanted me to do the 3D so I think my only comments last time were the surrounding neighborhood and then the chimney which we addressed both of those okay anything else no okay any questions sure any let start this any questions on the proposed it looks much better with it should me yeah I think I actually going to make it a little bigger but that that's functional um there are fireplaces I don't think that it is going to be if we make it a gas fireplace we'll have to add you know kind of the flues above and cover them it might stay yeah the Caps that make it kind of ugly it might stay decorative there is a firl and exterior fireplace here that will vent out the side and tuck it hidden uh in terms of volume you said it's roughly the same it is yeah not as boxy same height yeah under 35 yeah it's definitely a little more character to yeah um so the lower left that's the view from the road right um yeah the view from if you were yeah so if you approached this way it would be on your left here and then coming up the turning up to the driveway where this was the roundabout or the U now you can pull in here there's not going to be driveway in the front yard any and the up the top right that's the back this is the rear y Yep this is a eaten kitchen and this is an open screened in a screened in porch with um doors into the living room and a exterior fireplace indoor outdoor fireplace the material on the Trim U what that's wood or what is that no it's it is like a pressed Ash oral I think they changed it's now like new trim it's called looks like wood it's paintable like wood it does not have that Sheen that AAC or anything has um it you would not notice that it's not wood okay uh let me read uh Barton's comments I'm assuming you been worken with him obviously you uh I'll just read the findings uh again you know we're here to do what we do um and he states that because the goals of the commission don't appear to be adversely impact this application it recommends that this be reproved with the following conditions as imposed by the commission um because of the scope of work the construction documents submitted for a building permit will also be submitted to the historic preservation Comm in PDF format yeah uh although we don't review Paint colors uh we encourage you to select color schemes that are compatible with the surrounding context create a s visual continuity District you know I think you showed the other you know buildings there and it's kind of eclectic in the area so um it doesn't seem that out of place so seems to be uh held to and then um you know that the proposed exterior renovations to existing structure are in keeping with the town's guidelines and standard for rehabilitation so seems like you're meeting everything uh that he had asked for so all right with that I'll ask if there's any comments from the public on this okay one little comment I can't see you sorry sorry I I just one little comment this is beautiful and I was just curious why the home owners didn't want to do a full fire place that you can just Connect gas into so it has more of a historic aesthetic to just we're talking about just if we use this to vent their fireplace we have to put those metal caps and then uh this kind of allows us to make it look historic and I mean yes I would prefer a wood burning Real historic masonry okay I I mean most Moston look more that's just my only com it's a beautiful house thank right thank you uh then uh if no other questions do we have a motion to approve the application nice have the motion to approve second please second take a r Mr Davis yes Mr T yes Mr Franco yes Mrs gayor yes Mr Jenkins yes Mrs black yes great good luck with that thank you four great so next we have application number 576 this is 445 Wyoming Avenue uh block 303 lot 6 this is a contributing property to the Wyoming historic district uh Gabriel and Edward coching applicants Rec for application to construct a on story Edition on the chestnut side of the building in a onear garage uh and under an exist in undersized garage will be demolished so um we have the applicants and your architect this morning okay all right hi everyone um my name is Gabrielle cam um you just need to be SW yes and then we'll take you swear or affirm that the testimony you provide tonight on this applic yes thanks go ahead okay hi so I'm Gabrielle cochr from 445 Wyoming Avenue um we moved into the home about nine years ago we had our two children there which were three and five now um we adored the home the first minute we saw it uh we put an offer in immediately I mean luckily we didn't have much competition because the interior wasn't renovated since the 70s um so so I mean as the year after we moved in we did the second floor and we did the Attic which we converted to two offices we left the bottom floor as is to see what we would want to do in the future as we had kids and grew into the home um and honestly we did not want to do a major renovation now we absolutely didn't want to do it but the floors are falling apart the wood is splintering the kitchen is falling apart the doors are falling off the hinges anyway so like above the old oven the um the cabinet doors are actually warped so that's what precipitated all of this I mean we have to do a renovation um to continue living there and as we were going through it and we were figuring out ways to figure out you know maybe a more updated floor plan on the bottom floor we realized that we couldn't get everything we wanted or what I guess modern-day homes require in terms of sizes of appliances and so forth so um and we don't require that much additional space just a little bit to get at let's say the you know Subzero fridge or the appliances that we need to get the home that we want um but okay but um and we were considering you know expanding towards the back and maybe to the side and we had a lot of you know a lot of thoughts but we decided to go with the chestn street side because well for main three for three main reasons I mean and I don't want to diverge so I'm just gonna um look at my notes but so doing the Chestnut Street side accomplishes three things one thing is that you know it's south facing adding more windows there will make the house or at least the middle of the house a lot brighter because right now it's incredibly dark so no matter what we wanted to do we wanted to have more light in the middle of the house um so we definitely wanted to add the windows there and we thought just to get that little space we need if we were going to add Windows there and cut through that space we may as well just you know get that 100 200 square feet of space we need to add the the appliances we need so and um most importantly to my husband really and to me I mean I think this is I love it too but there are three rooms on the side of the house that have historical um plaster Crown moldings that are really gorgeous and we want to preserve them and if we went through the back we'd be knocking them down basically so the crown moldings were a big reason we were drawn to the house um he wants to keep them and as do I I think I was more willing to go towards the back if this was going to be an issue and he was absolutely hard no on that so but I figured I would just throw that in there but anyway so and also I think that doing that side of the house on chest Street just makes the exterior look a little more attractive with the bigger Windows rather rather than that little window in the middle of the house that doesn't really fit in with the rest of but um so that was really our reasoning and that's why we decided to go this route but um we generally I mean we we think that it's minimal work for the most part uh we are going we want to keep with the historical integrated to the house we don't want to make big changes that don't fit the house or the neighborhood and I hope we've accomplished that here and I think Tim I think Tim did a great job so so I'll turn it over to him to to clarify thank you for your time I don't know if do you ever got my name okay um before I start the last two cases I think you have to open the carry I just didn't know if you knew that have to sorry the last two cases that are on the agenda they're two of my cases we're going to carry them you're going to carry okay good I just want to make sure because they already noticed yes it probably turn out could have presented tonight after all but Barton thought the agenda was too full and you know pushed us but but we're not prepared to present tonight any you're okay the um all right so the site is 445 uh Wyoming it's um really what we're trying to do is construct a small one-story Edition on the chestnut side and remove an existing sort of undiz garage and build a new garage okay um the first drawings that are here are the last drawings in the back of your packet which are what we would call the E drawings they're the existing conditions right the existing basement the existing first floor has presently the kitchen in the front probably one of the coolest features of the house itself is this foursided fireplace it's actually there and I don't know if it's actually in working they're all coal fireplaces so I don't think they actually would work for wood you know they're Old Co jobs but they're um they're all opened up and exposed not covered over like in a lot of cases but the kitchen's in the front we want to relocate the kitchen and clean up the interior is really all we're doing I come up oh here's that existing um garage it's small and then I come up the second floor there's actually no work going on the third floor is the same and the existing elevations you know this is a pretty building and the elevations been retained it's uh I think built about 1873 or something like that walking walking 187 1873 that's what David um David Gibson's report says 1873 and I always just go to David's report just because I just known him forever the um I'm taking out of my HPC drawings which are on the top of your set they say HPC down in the lower right hand corner the existing survey and the proposed survey and this little area that we have sort of the hash line across in the front of the building that's the addition that we're talking about tonight it's a one-story building and then you can see we've demolished the existing garage and then constructed this new garage those are really the two additions that are going on here so move on to my first floor I'll just walk you through it quickly um it lets us take the existing ENT on uh hpc2 if you look at the demo layer you can see the existing stairway which is a little bit to the right of the new stairway and it's dotted out I I shouldn't call it the demo layer it's the dotted layer we come up we come into the existing front porch and into the building what we've really done is just straighten the building up across the front mov the front door sort of up Chestnut about four feet built our new Portico and created a little mud room powder room and then we're able to take where the existing kitchen is and turn it into a family room but we left everything inside portable Gabriel was talking about before is the um the dining room is where all that uh that plaster molding is we left in place I'm on hpc2 my sheet oh on the big things I'm sorry I'm sorry you can see kind of how we're pulling out a Stairway that was in the middle of the whole show and we're kind of cleaning up the interior like there's a lot of little interior demo going on so that we can actually plant a nice siiz kitchen into the corner get a kitchen use the existing dining room as the dining room create a little eating area and create a a space that's probably six foot bigger to be now our family room which we're calling here in the drawings a living room and it's um where the old kitchen was like if you look you can see the old kitchen sink but everything else has remained in place then we come to the left and you can see the existing garage and then our new garage right and our new garage kind of looks big in relationship to the existing but that's because the existing garage is like eight feet wide 15 feet long just so you know it's not U like a crazy situation but it was a that's where our addition is really going on when I get upstairs I'm going out of my hpc3 sheet there's nothing because it's we really have no work going on all we did was we moove an existing stairway you know we've left the front stairway which is the original stair in the house this this was the back stairway that we're actually pulling out and we're just going to circulate through the front stairway it's a little weird I missed it on the first floor but there's actually two stairs in the house and the front is a little neglected because um it's on the Wyoming side and the street axis is really on Chestnut so we're hoping by removing this stairway and taking the focus back over here we can get back to the front of the building then I come up I pick my elevations I tried to use your re over I'm never using it again it's too Wicky it's driving me crazy I can't take it the um if I come to the front of my building right everything is really the same except we infill this area with the new building and I think inside the packet there's a before and after rendering which is pretty good I'll show to you it's hard to really see what went on here you know we can take all the detail that was in the building and it's in the front por now we we Rec created all that detail and all of the materials are you all natural materials all matching this and I come around to the other elevations there's really no work going on you know a couple of little window movements but that's really all that's happening on this side this is kind of what my guys called the rear it's sort of um if you were looking at Wyoming it's the right side ele elevation it is kind of the rear but you know we got that thing nobody no rear yard on the corner L it's a little confusing I'm just G to go well I'll show you B wanted me to document the garage a little bit just to show you just because um we're asking to remove it he doesn't from his report he doesn't have an issue with it I think it was add in 1930 or something the garage it's the best apartment I could actually figure out but I just want you to see this it's in a state of disrepair and it's really undersized you can see it rotted in the corner they kind of put some screening in there like that rabbit screening to sort of stop stuff from crawling in so I at one point um was asking Barton about if he wanted any material to reuse or any of it but he doesn't he didn't want anything I think he thinks he has enough stuff already up on you know up on pars Hill then our landscape plan is here we've kind of just come and re cleaned up our landscape and just added planting really foundation planting around the perimeter existing trees supplemented it with trees and I think that was came later and Barton sent them to you separately but I can pass this board you like yeah this which is kind of simar that came out really well huh oh because we were waiting for the land yeah we were hoping to supplement that and then Barton was after us to get application I guess I'm going to you but I shouldn't be I think I think you is like the tree guy that's why we well the only question is and we'll get to is the the fencing I think Bart talked yeah Barton want talk to talk about the rendering of the proposed building right the our new structure is really this structure that's been fit into the existing building and we match the window pattern we really matched everything in I mean the intent of this Edition is that it looks like it was always here the um window that's in the front right now is undersized because it's over the sink and it looks a little Oly we actually I think improv the building in this case so I think I would say a relatively easy one but you know I hate to say that the uh so really all we're asking for is approval for this one story Edition and the garage and approval for the demolition of the existing garage the it's um all of the materials of all the new construction all match existing all of the wood the existing wood and the new wood is all easily obtained it's all really common stuff everything is still made so there's no problem matching anything even the little buttons that we put into the facial board there matching to these buttons it's all really easy to do to just you know need somebody to take a little time and uh probably a client that cares enough to you know get it done and luckily I was h i was P are these included with they're really not let me make them an exhibit yeah okay be exhibit a one the uh with all of the materials you know the windows are a thermopane window with a simulated divided light on the outside simulated divided light inside like they um only where we have divided lights like I think we have one there and you know we're matching some of the vocabulary here but here they're all open because we left them open this one is divided um but we just matched into the architecture of the building and these windows you know are good quality Windows you know not a snap in button or anything like that the so all of our turn I'm looking really at page 17 of the application just so everybody knows the zoning all conforms and it was kind of good because that new front yard setback which I think you probably know about right it actually is very good here because it works for this house even though it doesn't always work for all of the houses but the front yard setback has been modified in town and it allows for this to go in without of Vara so and I think it's helpful to the building itself the lot coverage is still only at 30% even though we're allowed to be at 35% so the lot is really underutilized you know this addition is small the um gross floor area is only at 20% allowed to be 30% so this the building is not um massive and our addition isn't at all massive even building coverage is under by 4% right so there's no kind of sight saturation going on here I'm at Barton's report now right yeah Barton calls it 1873 CL at a two and a half story stick um clapboard wood shakes all of that being matched the brick Foundation also being matched every all those little decorative elements are being matched in this building this is a case where we're doing an addition that is compatible with the building in such a way that it appears as if this addition was already there and not this isn't a job where this is a addition that says that if it was it could easily be removed later and there would be no construction to the building this is an addition that I think is actually helpful to the building and helps the window placement and even from a historical standpoint it probably makes sense to get the kitchen out of the front of the house a little bit you know and it also helps us us dramatically so I guess I would say that um foron appears to have no problems with this addition he gave me a quick thumbs up actually which is not normal just so everybody knows the um but um no he he was fine with it and I I think it actually makes sense on this is there any questions or um yeah well go go ahead I just have one question um in terms of the the chy that's back here in the living room um that exists is that being completely demoed like that foursided one the one no not the foursided one the one back here that's in the old living room that's going to be where the kitchen is now but it'll still be there so externally it'll still be externally yeah that was my only question okay um a couple questions one Barton brought up about the placement of the uh Landscaping to uh hide the HVAC yeah he want we had shed you know in front of this the HVAC right in the middle here and he wanted us to pull the fence right forward in front of is that acceptable yeah yeah okay all right because I think we'll have to just amend to include that okay um and I know on your drawing of the new garage yeah a window but it doesn't show in your W well done that window's being eliminated Barton wanted me to eliminate eliminated eliminated yes interesting the one over over the door in the front yeah he he didn't like it over the over the garage yeah okay there's not it's just crawl space this one right that little window we had there took it out I mean the only thing I see is I like the balance of the color and everything and you don't have anything like that on the garage but you know maybe it separates it so I think I thought with the window you could have played around with it so anyways well my guys are we put the window in origin but then I'll I'll I'll yield to Barton that's fine um so yeah um yeah but that's outside of that I think the and the materials the wood material for the garage is going to match the house yes yes and the roofing is the same I can yeah everything's easy to get there's nothing on this house it's difficult to get and you and you gave us the info on the uh the doors the garage yes like a car a carriage Dr yeah yeah okay um okay well I think that's great are there any comments from the public on this application okay um all right if there are no well you read Barton's comments I think we're good there so all right no further uh comments or questions then do I have a motion to approve the application as is with the one um note about the positioning of the fencing motion approve second second second R Mr Davis yes Mr Tada yes Mr Frankle yes Mr Gaylord yes Mr jenin yes Mrs B yes thank you thank you and good luck thank you all right so next on the agenda is application number 57722 Cypress Street this is going to be carried to the next uh meeting without notice right because they without further notice and then uh application uh number eight application number 5782 Chestnut Street that is also being carried to the next meeting without further notice that concludes the new business the agenda open meeting to the public are there any folks in the public who would like to comment on historic preservation okay that is done uh memorializations we have some memorializations from last month uh meeting there are three uh I believe we got the 529 this afternoon right so we have all three all right so there are application number 57 2 51 Lyon Street application number 52944 Highland AV and application number 5731 Marine place um these all need to be individually memorialized yes okay so all right so we need to take a vote from yeah it's gonna be right it's just Brad right okay so first one is application number 572 51 lyen Street uh Michael Tabitha Gillum applicants uh this has been you know approved I don't know if there are conditions here but we've read through it so U we motion to approve motion to approve and second second it there's no need to take a vot it's only the two of you so all right great uh number two is application 5 29 144 Highland Avenue Kim Richard and Tim Milton applicants um I don't have that in front of me but that was emailed out today so motion approve make a motion to approve and second second great and number three application number 573 one Marine Place Mark and shanana tantour uh applicants uh do I have a motion to approve to approve and a second second great so those three memorializations have been uh approved uh there's consent agenda items I don't think we have any right yeah okay so that is finished um discussion items I'm going to we'll talk about those next month since the chair is not here um with that does anyone have anything they want to bring upse we are uh a motion to conclude this meeting have a second second we that's