green GRE is good all right calling speeding to order um in accordance with Section Five of the open meetings act chapter 231 public laws 1975 be advised at notice that this meeting was made by posting on a Bolton board town hall and suring the officially designated newspapers a notice stating that this meeting would take place at Town Hall at 7:30 pm on December 7th of 2023 uh I just my name is Zach Davis I'm the vice chair the chair Allison I can't feel this is sick and she apologized for not being here tonight um couple folks are sick so um that is why I'm running the meeting tonight so uh first we'll start with the roll call I guess y Mrs Canfield is not here Mr Davis yep Mrs Asal yes Mrs Gaylord yes Mr Frankle here Mrs W is not here Mrs GL here and Mr Kramer is not here um I just have a couple announcements like I said um Miss Canfield is is sick today uh I wanted to just raise awareness to folks that um a week or two ago Mary mcnett was a long-term Ser serving uh individual in the in this community uh served here on the on the star preservation commission she also served as um in the town committee very uh important person passed away right before Thanksgiving and I just wanted to make note of that I think uh next month January we'll have some uh note of her contributions to preservation in town but very important person please remember her um also note today's December 7th so hopefully people remember the historic significance of that date um hopefully that hasn't faded and also first day of Hanukkah so for those celebrating enjoy your Hanukkah um but that I guess we're going to start with uh approving the meeting minutes from the last meeting which was October 5th so hopefully everyone's received those do I have a motion to approve those meeting minutes second yeah second yeah and we could just take a a verbal on that all those in favor great I can't vot this all right great so those are passed and then um the first agend item on the agenda is old business and this is a continuation of application 557 this is 88 Stewart Road Block 3104 lot 7 this is a non-contributing property in the Short Hills Park historic district um John gazman as the applicant uh are you present great okay so um if you they were sworn in last time they still need to be sworn in again or Contin sure we but they all were sworn in they all were sworn in last time so all right if you want to approach and please present the continuation of your application do good evening I'm the architect of record Maria Cosmos I was um we added a a sheet you have small you have small pictures but these are in large pictures this is what the house uh was original um in 2003 so you could see that from its original state um we did some renovations to it to bring it up to uh what it looks like today which we felt was um more historically in keeping with the district in the neighborhood um the modifications that the gunman looking for um are to finish the stone driveway circular driveway in the front and a major item is to increase the width of the portica Shure the original design uh had a portica Shure and they built it too narrow so even though it's there and the Gman have this nice size rear yard the cars can't pass through the P crer so right now the cars remain in the front of their home so um we propos to increase the width of portare so that the cars can actually pass through and reside in in a garage and not in sight of uh the corner and the neighborhood um it is a corner lot so St as Stuart Road bends you have full view of all the vehicles at the goam men's residence um the other proposal is to uh increase the patio um just enough so that the lifestyle can be maintained on one level um so that there can be eating and cooking and outdoor life on one level versus that there's a covered Terrace and a little bit area here but because of the stairwell and um the size of what is existing there's really not enough for both and then um the addition of the garage which we uh kept in keeping with the home and the character of the home and um the neighborhood to be more like a carriage house which can be viewed on A4 and the gunman's uh what also are also requesting if um a pool which is uh a typical um backyard element in the neighborhood so um I believe that what we have Pro proposed um does preserve the surrounding historical Aesthetics and um I do believe that um God bless you what we're asking for um will increase the um value of the home and the neighborhood just by the fact that the cars will be removed from the front of the home and um he plans on as requested by the board he plans on increasing the Landscaping um which was an [Applause] added it's L1 uh we were asked to uh site all the existing shrubberies and and Landscaping trees um and to add to the existing property um it will you know be embellished by an actual land landscape architect but this is the general idea of um of enclosing or you know visually um isolating uh the rear yard um we on the following page on the previous page as asked by the board we have listed all the materials used in the project um they are all matching existing but here they're itemized and um let you know exactly what the materials are that we'll be using and in the driveway um the driveway will be bordered and accented by um the Cobblestone by cobblestone in the front and uh by the front entry and Under The portic Cure so it'll have nice accents to break up uh the typical asphalt surface um um and I'll be happy to walk you through the project but I felt that perhaps since this is our second time around maybe you were already familiar with it this here is the extension of the port of Cure by about umt um this is the extend of the patio from here back this is the two-car garage which has um a um a side room for the pool uh equipment the house of pool equipment and you can see see that we tried to minimize uh the surface area that was used for the driveway um by what was actually needed for the car to turn around and get out of the driveway and nothing [Applause] more area and of course the materials uh you had sent an email to Barton and uh you three points that you had raised in there um can I just read those to and maybe go through those point point by Point uh one was that the fence layout has been pulled inward from the property line uh with the existing uh trees and shrubs at the street uh masking the fence and that's a c sheet A1 so what you're saying the fence has been pulled inward so previously it was further was on the property line okay so now what we've done is uh there's like two layers of of Shrubbery of landscaping and the fence will sit in between okay that's great um two is yeah goad really the uh only place that it might be visible is in the front but they also have um curb Shrubbery that screens yeah yeah and I think your existing plan uh for the Landscaping plan gives us some some details um adding some some shrubs or plantings in that line of sight looks like too um let's see number two the metal fence design has a more traditional look with vertical pickets concluding with a final on top of the pickets see sheet 86 um the height of the fence is six feet um so what what changed then with that fence design I think it was just a graphic all right it was a graphic the last time that was not appealing um we really didn't choose a fence it was more that it was an aluminum type of fence that was um actually very prominent in the neighborhood um and it was taken literally um so this time we actually gave you a fence that'll have pickets and um and we took out uh the stone piers and we're just going to have uh Stone piers at The prominent points like the four corners and of course the gate okay oh I see um and then all right so the last point is majority of the masonry peers have been removed and there's only three peers so is are you talking about the fence okay all right thank you that was clear as for me um it was there anything else you wanted to bring um no we actually just uh combed over um all your comments and made sure they were all addressed and um we hope that you see that we think that that is um absolutely in keeping with what is there now um the existing home the neighborhood and it will only improve uh this site in the area versus anything else and nothing no material is new to the site except for the fence and what what will be around the pool but all the siding the stonework um it's all existing um re reworked or reused do they want to they are more than I mean if you you want if you want to hear something from us Happ if you want to contribute anything you're certainly welcome to or have anything else no I I think I would just say that um you know we were here in October we took we took we try to implement everything you guys ask us to implement so so hopefully hopefully this is good uh well open up to my commission Jessica um yeah I know I asked this but it's been a while since can you just refresh my memory um will you need zoning um approval for any of the stuff that you're yes we have some coverage issues okay specifically we're over in coverage coverage okay not and side yard setback on the port of crocher okay so the portica share um if you make it just so that the car can actually squeeze through it's really not uh it's not humanly you know it's just it's not it's not graceful you actually have to give it a little bit of room so um the whole idea about a p a crocher and and so that it is actually used properly you do need a little bit of breathing room so we're asking for for that here um but it's just being extended it's not being redone the same columns the same materials everything okay so what what what's the difference that you're looking for five we look oh no um I believe it's 3 feet 3 foot [Music] 6 anything else that's it okay Karen anything else you want no Barry yeah that was one question I had was was the width the winding but obviously you're moving closer to your neighbors line so that's the um that's the zoning adjustment that they'll need um I mean I appreciate what you've done putting all this together the materials are great you can see everything up front um yes what we're looking for and um you know a complete application so um I I think we're we're fine with this and uh you know so I ask for a motion to approve the application motion to approve right and second second right uh Jessica who can actually vote on this where we uh well I think now that everybody can because you're a continuation of the and I think Karen I wasn't here wasn't here for this September meeting yeah but because it's a continuation can they vote on it now because they're presenting no not so so it's Jessica Rob Zach Mary wasn't here either so it's the we we motion motion all right so take a vote Mr Davis yes you're G Gaylord you're as well Mr Frankle yes and Mrs black yes thank you thank you thank you well good luck with the project thank you for coming back with the detail we appreciate your time sure thank you so am I to speak now all right so next moving on to new business now on the agenda we have application number uh 565 this is 56 Chestnut Street uh block 30 uh sorry block 306 lot five a non-contributing property in the Wyoming historic district uh I'm Arena Kumar and N Singh applicants and I realiz I didn't read the prior description so I read this this is a regular application for various exterior improvements including new two-story Edition with attached garage and driveway on the left side of the property and new rear upper deck and other landscape modifications here yeah great please come up and uh you need to be sworn in so just state your name and yeah Janine will tell you what to do sure Douglas Miller ahm Architects MB New Jersey amra Kumar Singh the applicant my wife couldn't be here she had to take care of the kids sare I do I okay go go right ahead uh thanks everyone for your time just to thought to take a moment to introduce myself um we recently moved to the neighborhood um my wife and I we spent more than a decade in England so we had almost settled down there bought a beautiful Cottage there but finally because of our son uh we had to move back to here some um medical needs uh so we decided to eventually move back to New New Jersey where we finally we have some friends there so we found this beautiful neighborhood and we bought the house last year and uh after buying the house um we realized that the house had some potential so we uh thankfully we got in touch with uh Doug and he has been helping us hopefully reach the potential for the house and he would give us uh the details of what we are hoping to accomplish and happy to answer any questions thank you good evening uh I have a rendering I'd like to hand out to everybody I don't know if you've seen it uh Barton sent out a m but it didn't have the rendering attached so just need to hand it out to everyone thank you have it it was it was an image attached oh I'm sorry I think it's the same yeah I didn't realize sorry if have redundant images uh so as Omar said he came to me with the goal of improving the house to enlarge it for their growing family to really just modernize it bring it up to the standards of what people expect in a house nowadays um first off I read through Mr Ross's comments and the and the uh his feedback and I'll get through that through out my presentation um and if possible I'd like to separate this application into two parts the first part being like overall style and massing of the house and second the materials I think it would be easier just to talk about them separately U so in the background the house is at 56 Chestnut Street it's in the Wyoming historic district it's a non-contributing property and if you look at the ticket that the HBC originally put out it really say it says specifically the house has no architectural significance it's an undistinguished example of style much better examples in the area I'm like if I was the homeowner then I would be crushed you know not really a glowing recommendation for this home um so and there is some discrepancy about what year the house was built it said 1895 on one piece of paper 1927 on another um I talked to Mr Ross about it and we just looked at the style and some of the other houses in the neighborhood and he thought it was closer to the 1927 date probably why the original HPC felt that it wasn't significant at all um it's really a mix of styles I don't know if you've ever been by it but it's kind of arts and crafts a little bit of shingle style it's there's conflicting details um ornamentation on the exterior and interior it kind of Blends uh through uh you know that kind of whole period there and there was a number of kind of ill-conceived Renovations uh they covered up the original Cedar clapboard siding with asbestos shingles which I guess was all the rage back in the the uh 50s because the original photo and the notation says it had aive shingles then and most of the original windows were removed and replaced with Hollow vinyl units so it's you know kind of a figment of its former um Integrity so uh I could go through the plans uh for you so I have some drawings here these are same drawings you have in front of you just a little bit bigger um make it a little bit easier to see so on this side is the existing site plan it's you know a kind of a reinar volume there's a little kind of wing wall that extends out to the side and what we're proposing to do is add an addition here two story Edition here the double hatch line and then a single story garage in this area here now these are the existing FL plans you can see it's kind of a traditional Four Square compartmentalized layout you walk in right into the living room which is a nice space but then you have this kind of space they're using as a dining room uh there's a small kitchen breakfast combined here with a tiny powder room um it's just not the way that people want to live nowadays and on the second floor there's three bedrooms and just a hall bath what we're proposing to do is kind of open up the house make more of a traditional a hall Arrangement where we have a foyer uh we're taking that existing big giant living room family room space and separating off to a more reasonable size we're adding a dining room here so this is the area of addition in this area this is that Wing wall that comes down on the front thead that I'll get to in a little bit and then we're doing a combined kitchen breakfast with family you know that kind of modern open concept that people are looking for and we're taking the old dining room and making it a study SL guest room and we're adding a one car garage here with a mudro to the rear the deck Remains the Same we're just going to extend it a little bit to connect and integrate with the overall uh floor plan of the [Applause] house the second floor uh we're taking that front bedroom and making the closet into a bath we're adding a kind of a a dormer element over here to create a new primary bedroom with a full bath and closet and then we're adding a a bathroom on the back uh to that rear bedroom and adding a little uh Window Seat add a little bit character and charm on the exterior of the rear um these are the existing uh elevations so uh the house really doesn't have very many defining architectural characteristics on the outside the only real defining element is this kind of steeply sloping roof line and uh there's a kind of attractive bay window on the side so it's this element here but it's hidden behind that Wing walls when you drive down the street you can't even see it so what we're proposing to do is work with the existing volume of the house kind of preserving the Integrity by extending that existing roof line the front door which is another kind of interesting element we're going to keep that and so basically this portion of the house remains unchanged we're just taking the existing roof line extruding it out and then adding a bay the existing house is kind of off-kilter it's kind of off balance and so by adding this element over here I think we're creating a much more attractive composition looks much more balanced and instead of creating or changing this main portion of the house for preserving it and and making a subtle move here to create some extra space on the in interior while maintaining that historic character and feel and then we're taking that bay window that was hidden and now it'll be you know more of a primary uh focus on that side of the house so when you drive up Chestnut Street towards Wyoming you know that that window now will have more promin prominence and then we're just using more elements of the same we're trying to keep the same kind of Gables same kind of Bays same kind of elements to break down the scale of the house and make it look like it was always that way um I went around the community and took some pictures show of some houses so I have a photo board here that I'd like to show the board uh you know and the rendering I think really shows the scale and character of the house much more effectively than the two-dimensional architectural drawings so here you can see that you know the moves we're making this is really the original House you know if you look at um photographs of it it looks very very similar we're just kind of adding this little feature here and then the Garage we're stepping it back keeping it off the street making it a one-story element with a much much lower roof line making it more uh subordinate to the primary volume and making it separate yet harmonious with the overall massing of the home allowing the main portion and the existing section of the house to shine and be the star and be the focal point I'm just really adding additional space and roof lines to uh provide the space for my clients you know Amar programmatic needs uh starting in the design process we looked at the Barton's guidelines you know what do we have to do we also looked at the department of interior standards for uh preservation and Rehabilitation and it says basically you know quote the process of returning appr property to the state of utility through repair or alteration which makes possible an efficient contemporary use while Pres preserving Those portions and features of the property which are significant uh to its historic architectural cultural values and I think that's what we're doing house here this house was built you know say a hundred years ago almost um the needs of a modern family has changed significantly over the last hundred years and by expanding and renovating this house we're taking a house that's maybe uh you know of a different time bringing it up to date on the interior but preserving the feel and character of it from the exterior you know it talks about applying the standards in a reasonable manner taking into consider economic and you know technical feasibilities and I think that'll come in later when we talk about the materiality but you know we're talking about the concept of integrity and I think we really are preserving the Integrity of this house uh we want it to feel like it's part of his time and place and you can see these are some pictures of the neighborhood of other houses with similar roof lines so you can see they have this kind of main volume with the secondary roof line with the Dormer uh same thing here on this house um this one as well you have that kind of main A-frame in the front and the roof line extending out so we're looking at the community looking at the other houses within the Wyoming historic district and trying to draw upon that you know our street is an Eclectic mix of houses some are on the Wyoming house you know walking tour other ones are much less significant they've all been kind of renovated and altered over the years and uh you know some of them have vinyl sighting most of them have hollow vinyl windows now which is a shame and some have stco some have you know a cedar siding originally and so you know we've talked about the overall massing and then the materials so over the years it's been renovated theyve covered up that siding as I said before so what we're proposing to do is to take off the asbestos shinkle siding strip it away reveal the cedar siding that hides below and restore that cedar siding and and bring Those portions of the house back up to what it was when it was built then we want to continue those materials to you know give that house the authenticity that I think it deserves but you know we're thinking about you know I've done this before we will We strip away you know they put vinyl siding on it aluminum siding on the house asbesto siding and sometimes when you pull that siding off you realize that there was a reason they put it on there in the first place the cedar is is in such bad condition sometimes the cedar was in great condition but when they put the siding on it that being trapped behind another material didn't allow that wood to breathe like it's meant to or the Sun beats down on it and the cedar looks great and then you go to touch it and it just falls apart so what I like the board to consider is you know our primary objective is to work with the original materials and restore store them our secondary plan would be to uh strip the siding and replace it but to keep the front have that historic PE appeal and curb appeal to have the cedar on the front and then say cement bar siding on the three sides you I do a lot of uh additions and alterations in new homes and the problem is that the cedar wood is not what it used to be um a box of shingles to get one box that meets the standards for a cedar shingle installation you have to take three boxes and then pull out all the little scrap shingles they cup they warp they're just not what they used to be you know we used to have old growth forests where all this original Cedar came from and now the trees are farmed they just don't last so to have something more durable uh and more economically feasible because the cedar now is just Skyrocket in price uh so we'd like to have Hardy Board or cement board siding with a smooth finish on three of the sides and then have the front either have a sing cedar shingle or a cedar clapboard and really give the house that kind of original feel from the street uh I think either way by stripping that siding off and replacing with something it's going to be a far improvement from what we have right now we're also going to be taking the windows and taking the hollow vinyl replacement windows out and putting in uh Anderson 400 series windows with uh full divided lights so they'll have a more traditional appearance than the windows that are on the house now and the 400 series Windows the sashes are actually painted and the frames are wrapped wood with vinyl but it has a softer appearance much more I think more authentic than say like a p Reserve aluminum Cloud window I find those aluminum Cloud windows are very sharp lined and don't really have that soft historic look that I think we're going for I think they're great on certain contemporary houses and maybe more modern editions but to have something kind of fit in with the style of this house I think this is of those choices that's a a more appropriate example we're going to a a more appropriate six over one light style uh I've had numerous conversations with Mr Ross about it you know what do we do what materials what do you think what's his opinion how we're going with a uh aestus shingle roof and a brown color to further pull out that shingle Style on the garage door is going to be a wood uh unit uh to complement the front door you know as you can see in the rendering it has the very similar detailing just in a different color um so the last bit is a fence uh they are previously had a fence approved uh earlier this uh sorry in 2022 the only difference uh that we're proposing is to change the location so on our site plan and if you look at I guess the the drawings that Mr Ross submitted the fence was I guess back towards the rear of the house and what we're proposing to do is pull it Forward um this rendering doesn't show the style of the fence appropriately but um it gives you an indication of the location and then we wanted you know a nice entryway here you know nice Arbor that I think you know pulls off these kind of circular elements we're adding a little Portico over the front door further emphasizing you know these kind of arched elements we have them on the back as well so I think overall the changes uh you know really enhance the home improve the functionality for the Next Generation while preserving the feel and integrity of the house so um that's kind of where I'll end it and open up to to the commission for any questions all right thank you um I think since uh Barton provided us with the report I should read some elements from that assuming that this is uh in in response to what you have submitted um I mean he did provide something on October 25th but then he has something D dated November 30th I don't need to read through the you know the background and context I'll just get to his uh his recommendations really at the end um so thank you for what you youve put forth I just want to provide his his response to what you're proposing here um the uh your the applicants have revised the design per recent conversations design is much improved um he has recommended some slight modifications to the layout and I think we probably want to talk about that um there was uh there was it says you you provided information on the the wood fencing so I think that's been addressed in his comments here um it says here we we recommend approval with conditions for wood fencing that the main house utilize repair in kind the historic wood clap wordss currently under speci shingles um and we have this uh certificate appropri from 2022 as you mentioned for the wood fencing um all cement board at the new editions must be smooth finished and field painted no Hardy is allowed at the main house so um I I think then what we want to talk about is this uh slight shift back of the addition did did you talk to Barton about that or did he bring that up with you because it's on on one of my papers here so exactly yeah that's that's one of the reasons that prompted my conversations with him okay he had suggested moving that roof line back but what he didn't realize is that's the existing roof line so we couldn't move it back we're continuing that roof line out so uh let see here yeah basically after I talked to him he says oh I understand now yeah that makes perfect sense so this roof line here he was talking about lowering it but you can see it's aligned with the existing Peak so if we brought it down it creates an kind of an awkward transition and and and it doesn't really look right so that's why uh know where let's see here that's why we're extending it so the existing house kind of ends here and then we're just extending it out so we felt that was a better integration okay uh of the design than you know after seeing it and and seeing the two things side by side okay yeah I mean I'm trying to follow on the conversation had so it's it's good to hear how that went back and forth so um I guess from what his comments are then he's he pretty um accepting of what you have and you sound like you're mostly on board with what he's talking about at this point yeah the only uh real question we had was you know it says approved on some conditions by the board and one thing I wanted to talk to you about is the siding and the materiality I think that's the issue you know redoing the house with all new Cedar all the way around would be phenomenally expensive especially for a house on this location so that's why suggesting the alternate of you know Cedar on the front and then cement board on the three sides and that way I thought it would be a good compromise between the two um you know we're hoping that the siding beneath is restorable because obviously that's going to be the most attractive and the least expensive option but uh you know in light of you know not knowing what's underneath you know would be something the the board would consider okay um let's let's listen to Karen do you have any open up to the commission give any comments uh well I I can appreciate your the your desire to keep the the St or the U the CER but obviously if it's going if it's going to look awful in in a six months or a year you probably don't want to do that exactly so you know I guess you can have the I'll give you thetic front Okay thank you really appreciate it Mary just question I you see that um did you discuss the size of the um the Dormer he mentioned he wanted it slightly smaller did you yeah uh through my conversations with him uh he understood the massing better and what parts were additions and what parts were the original house so we came to that conclusion that by the way yeah he he seem to be on board with the the latest design yeah there's yeah there there's one there's definitely been some back and forth anything J um no my comment was going to be about um you know the the issue of being Cedar all you know all the way around the house and that if it's that cost prohibitive you know I don't think that we can have that kind of you know expectation um from a homeowner um but I guess what what you're planning on putting on the side and in rear of the house is still I'm having trouble understanding what what material that is and how how that looks in relation to what the front of the house will be just want to make sure it's not like a yes so we're thinking of doing uh either restoring the cedar that's there and if the cedar once we pull this bestus shingles off if the cedar is in really poor condition and not salvageable we would like to do smooth Hardy Board paneling a cement board you know so it'll look like the original clapboard like when you look at the you know the the guidelines it says things that are technically feasible so you know SE siding is not technically feasible so how do we achieve that look and that's why that product was evented to try to give you that look of that historic clapboard and that's what we're thinking about doing okay so it be same same color everything same color and everything yeah we try to make it as seamless as possible not only you know because it's going to look better you yeah yeah yeah course of course I'm good um all right well so it sounds like then you're settled with moving forward with cedar on the front and the smooth Hardy plank on the sides the back so I think that's a condition that we would put on the approval of this uh uh application if I may as as Mrs Gord mentioned you know if if is not in a redeemable condition I would love as you mentioned that if you could have this optionality because that's something of course we want to keep actually seear everywhere if it is possible because that would be the least expensive but uh as Doug mentioned and as the Builder has also mention that from their vast experience apparently most of the time it doesn't go as expected so if we have this optionality of going for this smooth um what do you call cement that which you right as you pointed out that would be really appreciated thank you yeah obviously you don't know what's underneath everything so uh you have tested or you know it's all that's what uh that's a home improvement is about right you never know sometimes I mean the problem is you have to open that can of worms to find out what it is and we've only explored a small section just as you know Mr Ross suggested he says why don't you pull it off and see what's underneath so we knock down actually one part of the house to for help even though the renovation is probably six months away so okay so so I think that's a condition we'll put on approval for the sighting um I had a question about the fence because that was approved um to be set back do you need a variance to have it set up front like that like I I don't know how that works in terms of uh no we don't need to bar for the fence it's it's not in the front yard it's behind the front line of the house so we're still here I think originally they had put it here um I'm not exactly sure why but you know looking at how the the fence integrates with the house it made more sense to bring it up to the front okay um and then did you you provided some information on the roof tile right that was yeah it's uh Timberline GIF Timberline probably like in a weathered wood or a wood color I think that's uh that's sucessful to and you gave us information on the the garage doors that's all I mean it's all here so yes exactly yeah I think I think we're we're pretty complete with this I don't really have any further questions so um at this point then we could take a motion to approve the application with the caveat of the sighting I think is the only thing that we'll we'll put on there that forgive the introduction is there a public comment allowed to influence sorry I'm not usually running the meeting but I apologize yes you're right I'm not usually that's okay um yes uh please excuse me but yes um I would open the comments from the public then so if you want if there are comments please come up and then yes to just introduce ourselves sure I don't need to be sworn in right um okay I'm Daniel Weinstein this is Eva Weinstein we're the property owners of 52 Chestnut in Melbourne um and I just want to say before I uh share some prepared notes I have on this um I was we got the information um from certified mail in October I know the November meeting was cancelled we went to town hall to get to see some of the information but it wasn't available so my prepared remarks are just off of what was written here about the two-story Edition um so just want to kind of put that out there but I think it's it's relevant um we do okay I follow upo time wasn't available okay did you go to town you went to the went to the the building department the building department they weren't picked up from the building department until Tuesday this past Tuesday and there was there was a copy left there so they should have been able to show you what was there we talked to multiple people we called times we came in person multiple times they kept saying it's not here it's with we don't know call this person we literally never have seen any of this even though we received the letter that we re so we had an idea although not as much but yeah happy to continue with prepared remarks okay yes I do incorporate in your testimony what you just said about the not being Avail okay great um okay thank you so as stated um we're the owners of 52 CH Street um and just to state for that we're opposed to this app that's being considered for 56 Chestnut um which as we understood it was to move the existing driveway to the opposite side of the property and constructed two-story Edition with an attached garage we didn't realize the extent of this and while the application is is quite impressive and the designs sound amazing it feels and what we could see glancing through some of the pictures it's isolated just to the property and pretty out of context to uh to our existing home if you walk through so I'll just give a little bit um sorry just for background apologies for the reading off my prepared remarks I just want to make sure I cover everything frankly I get a little bit intimidated in this setting so thank you for um bearing with me but I want to be respectful your time so I want to take the commission through three topics please uh one is just a brief background of our time at 52 Chestnut two relevant events that transpired over the past year with Mr Singh and us and then of course the application itself so starting with our background uh my wife and I moved out of New York City in 2007 in the typical migration that young parents with a one-year-old child make uh and after looking at five homes in Milbourne we settled on 52 chest Street and I actually brought the original listing for the home where it's described as a Charming Cape uh and tatted a greenhouse attached to the garage which would appeal to gardeners who enjoy planting in a large yard a place to provide Solitude after a busy day it's a very sweet, 1400 ft wet home on a very large yard uh we grew up family welcoming two more kids and enjoyed the neighborhood making friends with families across the street and having a great relationship with their previous uh Neighbors at 56 Chestnut and in 2020 for reasons that I don't need to explain we needed a little bit more space for our kids that were no longer babies but we wanted to stay in the Milburn Short Hills area so we moved to a larger home in Deerfield um however we wanted to always keep 52 Chestnut as our forever home as a place we'd move back to when our kids eventually move out we don't need you know our current large home home at that time and I'm giving you all this background because I just want to make it clear we're not holding 52 Chestnut as some type of investment property or business we're not in the business of being landlords we don't own we own two homes uh we're holding our home because we have every intention of moving back one day uh in fact you can ask our current time it's about our sentimentality it's kind of a running joke actually with that so in August 22 the sing purchased 56 Chestnut um and within a couple weeks the sing ripped out all the shrubs and vegetation in the fronts and sides and back of the property essentially everything that could be taken down with the exception of trees but I'll address that a moment so even and I learned four things at that time and I think it's just relevant for this application first one's particularly relevant what we learned the property line between our Lots between 52 and 56 chest is actually a lot closer to our home than we realized like for years our neighbors at 56 chest n and us we took care of each other's plantings and weeding out poison ivy trimming Hedges but it turns out that many the plants that we thought of like the purple one that we thought were ours were actually not so technically the sing had every right to remove those and they did the second thing we learned is that we have a drain pipe running out from our house that runs about that ran about six feet into the sing's property the drain pipe is crucial because our homes experiened significant flooding Irene um and more on that later so we have all the gutters leaders on some pump running out to the 4in drain we never knew it wasn't our property because again we had just a mutual understanding with our former neighbors and there was plenty of vegetation to absorb that water but again technically that pipe was on their property and now with zero vegetation it was deemed a nuance and the third thing we learned was that the sings wanted to run a six- foot privacy fence along the property boundary um and when I offered a compromise of perhaps considering more natural privacy fencing such as a combination of slatted fencing or metal fencing with vegetation or the idea that was brought up for 88 Stewart which sounds amazing to do this fence vegetation or vegetation fence vegetation awesome we would have shared in that cost but Mr Singh immediately responded no 6ot privacy fence right on the property line which again that was technically within his right so the final thing we learned again this why I'm taking the commission the is that it wasn't going to be a collaborative relationship the things were going to do whatever they wanted to write up the limits of what's allowable and when I took some time to confirm our survey and then research the right solution for our drain drain pipe Mr Singh became very impatient started receiving calls and texts from him all times of day and night he'd follow me on the train confront me on the commute it wasn't pleasant but of course again technically I couldn't do anything so I I I raised that also because of like I feel like this presentation was was just in what is technically allowable within the lot within like the house itself but I really would urge you to consider it the the the the neighborhood um the the fence project that they started last year wasn't finished which I thought was odd because there was a lot of urgency to it about his kids I discovered the reason they didn't finish it was so they could remove some massive trees including a very beautiful Spruce um and I know that some of the trees were a hazard but they removed enough trees that the town Forester required them to plant 23 replacement trees which only happened recently and are just like 4 foot arav lining some of the fence which I guess technically trees but definitely not a replacement for what was taken down um and then I learned about this application so I want you to know that I'm objecting this not for objections sake but I'm objecting because it just feels like a continued denigration of our enjoyment and value of our home and I have a number of reasons why I'm appealing to this commission to deny this application so this is my third point and I'll talk directly about this application one there are no homes on the south side of lower Chestnut Street defined between Wyoming Glenn that have garages like none whether attached or attached and there's only four homes on the North side that have garages and two are set in the backyard and so when I was reading through and please I'm not trying this is not meant to be I'm saying this humbly but when I was reading through the historic preservation ordinance which is to maintain and develop an appropriateness and harmonious setting for the historically significant structure sites and districts located within the township and then to encourage and manage appropriate alterations of historic sites and improvements within historic districts and to prevent new construction which is not in keeping with the character of historic districts again I know the home itself is not historically significant but there are no homes on that side of the street that have garages and the S must surely have been aware of that when purchasing their home the second Point there's already an existing driveway in the west side of 56 Chestnut so it's the one next to 60 Chestnut thereby creates a section of street that has two driveways side by side which you see in patterns along Chestnut moving this to the other side of Night by our house is now would be a driveway right next to our front walkway like and again based on what I saw where the garage is right on the property line I mean that's right next to our front front walk um and we've already seen a pattern of the sings building to the limit so to have vehicular traffic so close to a main walkway just seems an unnecessary hazard in addition there's a bedroom in that front walkway that faces West so those bedroom occupants which were us would be subject to car engines doors and garage doors it just doesn't make sense why to move the driveway from one side of the house to the other the other one I'll go over quickly because I'm not the architect but if you look at you guys are much more qualified but it just seemed with 56 chest on when you're looking at the street there looking at the house the roof line goes low on one side and then cuts off on the other side seems more sense you'd extend kind of the one side to create a garage than kind of a double sloped whatever is going on but I haven't seen the picture so I'll skip over that third point um fourth point in Old Google Maps satellite photos you can't even see 56 Chestnut because of like I can show it to you right now um but without the trees and vegetation that once created PR privacy between 52 and 56 56 trust not like I really urge you to walk down the street it Towers over our smaller house and creating this additional mass and height by building even closer to our to our property line is only going to exacerbate that imbalance our house I think because it was the 50s was built with a very shallow setback and I get that's like previous issues but like it just would be enormous kind of imbalance and then finally my last point about this is about vegetation one of my largest concerns about this project is water runoff and our home is on the downhill side of 56 trestl we're already getting a lot of water coming down the reservation so adding a driveway plus a structure is only going to create more runoff that I don't know that homes drainage is going to be able to handle I'll wrap this up um I just feel that like even I've been marginalized over and over throughout the past year like every time we try to fight for our kind of any kind of property rights to maintain anything we just get shut down and I understand while this techn this application may have technical narits I'm just imploring or begging this commission to to compel the things to find an alternate solution maybe on the other side of the existing driveway or simply make do without a garage um I really thank you for your consideration and hope that you'll support me and my family uh and trying to retain some semblance of what made us fall in love with our house in the first place so thank you thank you appreciate com thank you your no just just I want to say I I really love this home and I please before you vote tonight please go walk down Chestnut Street it's the Chestnut Street between Glenn and Wyoming it's the best block in town and just think about what like look at their house now and think about what again I don't even know what they're proposing but something giant would look like it would be completely out of character so pleas please before you vote just do that thank you your Eva EV thank you could we please share uh you know thank you so much could you please share the rendering just so that we're not going to be able to look at it in one night and we're at some point I wish you KN my room or house I would you like to respond to the comments they brought sorry anyone else to put comments on this application yeah I mean it would be great if you could put our house here so we could really show it right so uh just to you know address some of their concerns and you know I I I appreciate your your perspective and especially being a neighbor so um the the property lines are the property lines it's unfortunate that you know they had a misunderstanding of what their property was over the years because of the the hedro that was there but it was my understanding from uh the sings is that the hedro was kind of overgrown it wasn't really well maintained there was uh trees that were growing into their Foundation of their house there was a spruce that was literally really touching their home so they had discussion with the town Forester uh to take the trees down and the town has an ordinance that if you take down certain trees of certain sizes they have to be replaced with other trees of other sizes so everything they did on the property you know although may not meet the um satisfaction of the neighbors and you know maybe they could have had more discourse and understanding your feelings you know I'm sure um the things would you know engage you and maybe planting some more screening or doing something interrup just um I want to address one or two points uh since just to give people some perspective without taking too much of the time uh as soon as we walk in a new house of course you want to be friend with every neighbor and that's the first you know so In The Same Spirit uh we started to clean the shrubs which were overgrowing and pretty much every neighbor came to our house um and um actually the 52 Chestnut is the only house where they don't the owners don't live there so they couldn't see the day-to-day progress when we moved in the house so pretty much everybody else came and said that oh you guys have given the property a haircut literally I cleaned up otherwise if if you see it on Google Earth you still won't be able to see as you rightly pointed out because there were stops everywhere there were poison IV everywhere so when we walk in the house we have two kids and as I briefly mentioned without getting into the details we moved into this um you know we moved into this beautiful School District because of its repetition on how they support children with special needs and that's one thing which my son has autism and as soon as we walked in the property we realized that the property actually opens up to Glen Avenue which is a very busy road and uh so I immediately reached out to I did not know about the historic commission being a part of uh my son was deliberately he was fascinated by the cars running cars so he was constantly running back to the road so I immediately sent an email to uh I came to the town and next day literally they're saying that can we put some fence so that we can the children don't endanger them and but without to put the fence you needed to like clean up where you could put something so then they asked me to get in touch with Mr Ross so I started communication and they I learned that it go through the process and that's the application which uh Doug was referring to or their effort that finally I learned the rules and then I got approved uh and during the process I in I invited the Forester because again I learned the rules that with before you can touch anything on the property you have to involve the town so I invited the Forester and she identified couple of trees which were rotten completely and those were actually going going to those were uh literally leaning over our neighbors garage and nobody had any clue and interestingly uh I learned again this regulation that if we had not done anything if it had G fallen over to the garage just because we I was not aware they had never objected it to it it would have been completely fine but I thought that you know we just moved into the property let's do the right thing so I invited the tree company and uh the Foresters showed me all the trees which were really bad and I requested so there was one tree actually which is on the other side of the I forget it's 57 chest right on the other side of the house so there is a really old couple who live there and we um I proposed that I would be happy to take that tree down without any cost to them just to be good neighbor so I actually took took down all these trees for my neighbor neighbors to be happy about but that's okay and in the in exchange um Forester asked me to put 24 trees and I'm happy to Port right now actually more than 50 trees have been planted and not they are not 4 feet are they are now more than eight or 9 ft and actually six of those I have recently planted to give some more privacy on the on the driveway which I was proposing so that just to again that was not needed but uh and I continue to plant more because it just feels the right thing to do because my requirement was only 24 but so far I think it has been 20 plus six yeah more than 40 trees I've already planted in last uh six months and I'll continue to that please sure C can I just ask on the uh work that's proposed on the um the side where the addition is going are there any variances required for that work the only variance everything is going to be conforming for coverage area it's just the front yard setback there's an ordinance in town they're changing the front yard setback definition so the way the ordinance read before and when this application was submitted to the board is that everything has to be 40 feet off the street uh or established if the establish is greater than 40 feet but you can't come closer than 40 they changed the ordinance um so that houses like ours would not have to come in front of the board of adjustment so when there's an established setback there's certain consistency to that you know all the houses a certain Rhythm to that that would be um conforming but unfortunately the way it was worded is very confusing um and it basically is going to require almost every single house that uh has an addition go in front of the board of adjustment for a variance so my conversations with the zoning official they've been working with the planning board and the people to rework the wording so I'm not exactly sure where that wording is going to be but um miss davit the zoning official said you know I don't think you're going to need a variance once the new ordinances come out but we don't know exactly how the ordinance is going to be worded um but what we're doing is taking our addition and stepping it back further from the street than the existing house to to minimize the garage and to you know one of their concerns was you know why don't we build on the right side of the house instead of the left side of the house um the town has requirements as far as setbacks how far you have to be from your neighbors how far you can be from the street the rear and our house is sighted all the way to the right side so we're literally over um the required setback on the right side so we can't touch the right side the existing driveway is existing non-conforming if we built this house today we couldn't put the driveway where it is we couldn't fit a garage on the right side because it' be far too close to the property line than required in the ordinance so by moving the driveway to the other side and adding the garage we're actually bringing the house more into conformance than it is now so you know the garage is something that the town uh land use ordinance recommends they want to get the cars off the street they don't want people parking their cars in the driveway they don't want the visual clutter they want the garages they want people to park in them so often people's garages are just big storage rooms but you know we we've designed this garage so that they could actually pull their car in and get it off the street and not have it so close we're going to be conforming to the setback we're actually going to be um further away uh from from your house than required much further further than the minimum required so we're not there's no sidey there's no sidey set back and we're further from their house than required and we're much lower that's the one-story section of the house just where the garage is two yeah so the two-story Edition is is much is basically in the dead center of the property so we're trying to be sensitive to the neighbors their house is just extremely small it's a very small cottage it's you know if you took the opposite bent it would say that that would be so far out of context to all the other other houses so there's always these outliers these houses that don't kind of quite fit in so you know in considering the drainage you know this is an AB Board of adjustment application um this is more about Aesthetics and scale and you know we are conforming to the scale and all the requirements it's just you know does this look like and have the feel of what the house should have so the drainage is all going to be addressed to with the town engineer we're gonna have to do a storm water management and grading plan and submit it for the township Engineers approval so if there's any undo runoff from the house now all that roof line is going to be picked up by new down spouts and taken away to uh special uh tanks that slowly release the water into the soil so by actually building this addition all the rainwater that's not picked up now is going to be picked up and disposed of in a proper way so it's only going to improve um any of the drainage uh from where it is now uh once the addition is built uh the fence we talked about that's all you know within the board's uh you know review yeah actually I realized we you had provided two samples do you have you made a decision on that yeah one sample is to the side fence is to the front so it's uh it's there's a picture of a a fence across the street um I have a picture here this this fence across the street here see but I can bring it up it's a space picket picture which is right the rendering so we had more solid fence around the sides and a more open space picket on the front so it has that more traditional picket fence appearance from the street MH that's the one which is right now between these two uh properties and I have planted uh these green vegetation right next to that even though it was not needed but you're C you've currently constructed a fence the was approved last year and it was uh it was all implemented what what what does that look like it has been implemented like a u shape uh just but is it solid or the has the visual spacing so the visual spacing is May I show it here yeah so this is the house this is the existing house so the fence right now goes uh this side is a neighbor's fence so I put the fence here because this is where you have Glen Avenue and this this is what I was interested in blocking as soon as possible because my kids were just running this is the road so I put the uh fence here and it stops somewhere here and from here to here you have the space picket which is what Mr Ross had approved last year and and you're going to continue the same across the front exactly yeah and this is where I so what I did uh 6 months ago I put our uh these green Giants uh 25 these along this line and 10 here and six here I've already planted those 41 all right um well I think you answered the questions that came up I mean does anyone have any further questions on this I just a comment um no I I was just gonna um say this feels a little bit like it's turning into as a on to the zoning board like more of a you know zoning um board meeting but I was going to I I wanted to reiterate um uh what Mr Miller said which is that we do have an ordinance in town that uh houses are supposed to have garages so to make you know while while you know I appreciate what the neighbors had to say to make the argument that you know a lot of the houses in the neighborhood don't have garages so we should keep this house from having a garage um really is is going against um what the the township wants which is garage uh cars off of driveways um so I I would disagree with that um I'm completely in favor of having a garage um attached to this house or part of this house um and you know I feel comfortable knowing that um you know this application may not even need to come before the zoning board but if it did it's not coming before the zoning board because of Any sidey setback issues um or any massive issues um so I just wanted to give that perspective thanks well I mean we've heard the comments so um I think at this point we take a motion to approve as uh as presented with the conditions that we've uh indicated so is there a motion to approve so moved a second second okay take a vote Please Mr Davis yes Mrs esal yes Mrs Gaylord yes Mr Frankle yes GL yes thank you very much and please we did hear you I I don't want you walking away thinking we didn't hear you but we did hear you and understand that this has been reviewed by um our outside consultant and it is consistent with the regulations that we didn't even have a chance to look at it we got a letter that we were supposed to we didn't couldn't even comment based on something that we know about not fair and not according to the rules just to be clear you're still welcome please knock at the door anytime you're most welcome on to the next item on the list which is um application number 561 this is 6 2210 lot one uh this is a non-contributing in the Short Hill Park historic district ber Woo is applicant um this is the regulatory application for construction of a new single family residents and Associate site improvements and this may sound familiar to folks that were here a few years back that had seen this one um probably five six years ago I think right or something like that so and multiple times too yeah this is our third time okay all right so U please introduce yourselves and uh need to be sworn in if you're G to make a testimony here I'm Bernardine W I'm the owner of 40 Highland I'm Christian Tyrone I'm potential builder for the project I'm Thomas Conway I'm architect the pro for the project Rosen Kelly Conway Summit go go ahead uh so I'm the owner of the property known as Mont View everybody knows it as the Big Blue House The wraparound porch since 2004 uh monw has a special historic uh role in Short Hills uh since 1880 one of the first houses and I've been honored to be its most recent Steward uh with the support of uh the HPC we have two enormous res Restorations and I continue to manage the property myself while uh running my uh Global consultant firm I have always been involved with our neighborhood uh with the historic Society uh and with uh Mont View and Highland as they are this is probably my fifth time in front of the commission so um I was going to say it's nice to see some of you but um I think uh some of you are not here um and it's like you said it's been several years since we had approved plans uh for the adjoining property 67 M view for I'm very grateful and special thanks to Barton for his research and guidance I know he's not here either um for those of you that are new to this project I want to give you a brief recap 67 Mont viiew was part of one property that was four properties uh it was divided in the 1940s to create my property 40 Highland 67 Mont view 59 Mont View and one more lot next to it a small Colonial House was built onto 67 Mont view uh when it got divided dilapidated a very nice old lady lived there but it actually became unlivable there was three-dimensional black mold so ultimately it was um knocked down uh through approval from the commission because it was actually erroneously put on the historic um uh registry so when it came to uh having an opportunity to improve the property and the neighborhood um with full support of the neighborhood uh I bought it as a defensive move against a builder that was going to build a mcmansion bit of a sucker move but I felt very strongly about the neighborhood and about preserving um this block so we got great support uh from demolishing it uh the approved plans now are what I think and what what the commission has thought were befitting the style and Times of both adjoining properties in between and so we've received uh multiple compliments on the design and the style of the house so since then um I had been focused on my business and my family and then looked for a development partner uh that I thought would be appropriate so the reason why I'm speaking here today is to ask once again for your support uh to reapproved with my longtime architecting partner Tom Conway who will do the presenting so I am under contract with uh Christian this uh bu to sell the property and the pl's contingent upon your approval I have met with Christian who strikes me as a successful and thoughtful developer he prioritizes high-end properties and has stated his commitment to honoring the intention of the designs and the original goal An Elegant historic Bas and unobtrusive design I believe that Christian in times plans will make I chose Christian as the buyer in a competitive situation and I fully s with this project so hope you will help me realize this vision for this neglected spot wonderful property and thank you for listening to our presentation do I have to say anything Conway if you'll haven't met me before at Rosen Kelly Conway in h Summit and um I was chairman of the stor preservation Commission in Summit for 10 years and I've been I've done even tours in the Short Hills Park histor District and been working here and doing a lot of applications in front of Y all for many years uh and do a lot of that's what I do is a St preservation and and what this is which is what we call contextual design something that's within its context and respectful of the neighborhood so I just started um with this quick diagram because I you all have read Barton's thing so I'm not going to go through any of all that time and deepe but this this orig this is the original house here which is called M which the street was named after um the house originally in this section here right about here that was a um that was originally a queen an house and then it was expanded into this what we call period um that has a lot of variety of different Victorian architecture there's actually stick and um it's has kind of some arts and crafts details uh but it's mostly um a stick style and and Carpenter Gothic so um then this other build so you'll see this picture which you have in your group that so that's monw look that's the actual name of the house monw looking along Highland Avenue and then the um this is the property itself here and then this is 59 Mon view which is this building and this was uh original Carriage House to the building so both of these are extent um and the property as bernady mentioned there was a 1947 house that we took down uh for that so when you look at the site plan it may seem a little confusing for preservation uh to show demolished buildings but uh this this was the old uh setup that was for that property and then this is the new development uh uh plan for this new uh contextual um house that we're building so we did come in front of the the board originally um to uh propose a detached garage in the back and um they like that that and all these meet all the zoning there's no zoning issues no building issues whatever it's all setbacks we already have the engineering from caseing C we've gone through all this over and over again uh and I've met with multiple uh Builders to talk about this project over and over again but so uh this project um here uh the the house is set so that it kind of creates this kind of dialogue between the buildings so you can kind of see edges of all these buildings simultaneously when you drive up the street and the whole idea is that these properties should all feel kind of Akin and related in in essence so when we when we look at Rel Landscaping this property uh that's going to be very important that maybe the that The Lawns kind of in [Applause] uh that would be shille Park historic district concept um so uh then has not uh changed with the regard to the setbacks all the Zing as I said meets those requirements the changes I'm gonna only really focus on the changes which was we changed one chimney here we made that into a gas unit which in affect the outside we changed the I'm going to show you the elevations we changed these doors they're in the same size we went from five to four in the back I actually think that's an improvement and we changed some windows upstairs um so nothing so inside this actually just stayed as is and then we had originally a chimney so if you look at the old drawings that we had that you all have um those were um that and then on the second floor we changed one of these was a window and then another door I'll show you them in the elevation I CH we changed them both to doors to we felt like it was going to be a little bit more elegant and these were D windows in the back here and we turned into single windows on the on the back side of the house um so that was that's a change there and that's it on the outside so just show you so the front ISS exactly the same that's what we presented um this side these were double windows originally we went to single which I actually think looks better um and oh the lattice bit larger we thought it would be a little bit more in keeping scale of this this was kind of a nice scale with the these side lights and then um this lattice detail we thought would be a little bit more fun to have a little bit a larger size to that and then we changed these doors to be four of the um sliding French doors here um on the back and um and then this side the chimney was removed so that's the whole um update now we had I mean as over the many times I met with all these different develop by the way this site plan which is consistent we haven't changed any this the cas K said Mike lens does not have to come back here again um so uh the um various I mean I feel very strongly that this is uh been a a really interesting process for me as a preservation and architect as a preservationist and an architect but you know I think they found Christian and he's the best of anybody that we met with over the course of it he's been very um uh supportive of all the materials that we suggested um you know no push back on the windows we want to use Norwood windows we want to use a plank um for um the board and the Batten and the upper clap board um we're going to use a uh uh asalt shingle um fiber shingle roof we're thinking we're either going to we use the certain tee grad Manor on on Bernardine's house to look like slate because the roof wasn't able to support the Slate that originally was on it and that's why I've been taken off this one um I think we're probably going to use either the GF but probably more um the one I really like right now is the owns Corning duration because it actually has a really good tab detail and the colors are really nice so I'm hoping we can use that um on this and um all that all the same details any other questions Christian what oh Christian yeah you can answer I didn't know whether he wanted to talk or he was just gonna answer a question go ahead so I'm a little late to the party on this project because apparently it's been going on for almost to a little less than a decade um so when more than a decade yes when we met I I think you were a little surprised in the fact that I didn't want to recreate the wheel I I think the you know being in a historic district understanding and researching what it meant to the community um and the owner now uh was important to me to keep the Integrity Integrity of what's happening in the neighborhood and historic district so I think we may had had two half hour meetings and we said this is what we're going to do um so knowing that it had been previously approved with some very small uh changes U that I wanted to do just on some a couple windows and doors um you know I'm looking looking forward to you know hopefully getting this approved and you know start building I have um one project actually I'm building right now uh at 127 Stewart uh which is ongoing and uh I also build in Summit and Maplewood so I'm in this area predominantly so thank you great um I'm just going to read Barton's uh recommendations to his letter um don't read need to read the whole thing um he's obviously attached to 2014 approval um m is 2014 see later but um 2016 there was but was change there's been two there's two so 2014 was the original and then we changed it okay yeah yeah right I think 17 there was some modification so as established ordinance the HPC seeks to protect preserve the Heritage and history of town I'm sure that any new development maintains character scale field of historic buildings that Define a district because these goals do not appear to be adversely impacted by its application or in other words they are consistent with that uh we recommend that this application be approved with any conditions as imposed by the commission so Barton's fine with this um I just open up the rest of the Commissioners Jessica um I mean think the the changes uh relative to what the original plan is are basically dious um I think it's a really nice plan and I live um in the neighborhood not close enough to be um you know exempt you know not able to vote on this but um I will say after years and years of passing by you know this empty lot um and the for sale sign um I'm I'm excited to see you know something come to fruition so I think it's going to be great I support it thank you rob me too good excited to see something go I Echo her words exactly I think it would be great to go k I have I had just a comment because I live up farther and we have to drive by there all the time um there um Gap view is directly across from that property and if you're coming up G view or trying to make a turn down it's kind of dangerous you really have to look you have to look really well to see what you're doing um especially with the Rocks right there you know they're I would you people come flying around that corner right yeah this um um right along here are some trees and overgrowth as well we started taking down as much as we could but I think that is also part of this plan he T you know Tom talked about this rolling sort of feeling here and so um you know there's no plan for a fence here um the roscales have a fence that kind of starts over here so I know what you mean because this is a sight line thatal coming this way and that way we want to open that lawn up so you can see it and those rocks are they need to go they no I mean that's all part of got to move them around okay I know I know I know but we're going to we're well on the other I have two two work on two different areas here I'm tend to be a horticulturist so there are a couple trees they're a largely I think they're called a magnolia magolia yeah Magnolia Oak the leaves are this big yeah there's one here and the other one unfortunately died in in like one of the Super Storms yeah but I think that that one is um you can still see through it gonna take it down I hope not okay I hope you don't but um yeah I love that tree too because we have one over here as well yeah yeah okay well we're hoping to keep that but but right now there's all this underbrush in the way you can't you know as you go up Highland you can't see where you're going and you come around the corner and then somebody's coming up all aware of that and we may even along the way um brine was even talking about this we may even curve the drive a little bit more this way depending on how it works you know once we get we have to get a landscape plan um Christian's working with his landscape people to kind of figure that out um but you know th this the drive may want to change slightly so that we don't we don't want to exacerbate any of the issues there but I mean the ability though to be able to see see up along this Edge is going to make a huge difference from the way it is now which is just an overgrown site you know opened up too much so that it you know I think we're I think the goal you know we were talking about it like there's the landscape all in here and I'm I'm not a landscape architect but I do dabble yeah and uh but we were hoping to kind of have you know kind of this idea that there would be landscape in the back and then blow through there but if there were trees interrupting that way which is burning as you know number of these beautiful trees we're going to keep those it's just we want to open this landscape up as much as possible you may raise the the canopy a bit so you can see up the street I actually don't have any per but like this is all Ivy growing this is probably you want a climbing unanimous on this um tree but we can raise the canopy enough this is actually just completely engulfed in um in it looks like English ivy so that that's probably gonna come down as well I don't know whether that's come down yet so we'll look at that but the we'll we'll fix all that but thank you for bringing it up because just it's important cry the person who known is flower person thanks thanks Karen um uh I saw this back in 2017 so I was surprised to see it back but I understand now uh the slight changes to it so um it all seems to make sense you don't need a any kind type of variance for the driveway right that's that's allowable and all so everything is allowable I think uh the the theme is people will be happy to see something on the property so I think do I have a motion then in the public sorry I'm learning I'm still all right no no public all right um then motion to approve the application second all right we'll take a vote Please Mr Davis yes Mrs esal yes Mrs Gaylord yes Mr Frankle Mr Frankle oh that's you right Mrs GL yes all right great well congratulations and good luck with the pro thanks I'm just happy not to talk to another developer about it well we'll move quickly through the last items uh on the agenda number four for the evening is to set our meeting dates for 2024 those of us that are returning um I think some of are not but uh there are the dates as put forth on our agenda uh with the first meeting actually being January 5th which should be okay because that's usually far enough away from New Year's Day uh typically that July meeting is always a problem this is July 6th meaning July 4th is a Tuesday yes probably okay I mean if not we can always we can always I tried to go through all of these dates to make sure that there were no holidays like other than July 4th that were right there looked at the school calendar that we have for the rest of this school year right now there's conflicting um so I guess I guess they're fine I mean we we would then I mean we can always push them off if we need to or we we can have a motion to approve the dates is there is there a motion second all right I guess all those in favor just say I I yeah I think we're good so um let's see open meeting to the public all right everyone has left left uh discussion items chair's report we'll hear from Alison next month uh I don't have anything to report in the other ones we do have two minor work um resolutions or approvals that were included in your documents um one was from July one was from uh November they actually been pretty quiet on the um on on these of late I don't have them in front of me but um they've already been approved hope got to see them so uh with that uh can I get a motion to adjer second second all right we're done for 20123 thank you folks