I'd like to call this meeting to order welcome everybody um I'm first going to open or read the open public meeting statement in accordance with Section Five of the open meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 he advised that notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board town hall and serving the officially designated newspapers the notice stating that this meeting would take place at the Town Hall at 7:30 p.m. on February 1st 2024 Nicole Mrs Canfield here Mr Davis here Mr Frankle here Mrs Gaylord is absent Mrs Glatt is absent Mrs Wonga is absent Mr Jenkins here Mr Cen here I'd like to move to announcements of first announcement is on the agenda it does mention um about a zoom option for comments uh we're still working out the Kings uh so bear with us it will not be this evening we will not have that this evening um but we are working on it um another announcement is uh Brad Jenkins has been appointed to full board member to replace Mary esel congratulations to you and thank you for agreed to do so we appreciate it thank you um do we have any of the Commissioners anyone have any other comments any announcements they'd like to share hearing none uh we'll move to the meeting minutes the minutes of January 4th meeting have been distributed to the Commissioners are there any additions or Corrections hearing none do I hear a motion to approve motion to approve second second thank you all in favor say I I okay minutes have been approved thank you um we will move on to memorializations consent agenda items or minor work review we we had two minor work review applications this past month um I hope uh you had time to review them that is the consent um agenda um 40 Northern drive and 24 nollwood road do I hear a motion to [Music] approve motion approve second second consent consent agendas have been approved thank you um we're moving on to Old business which we have none so we'll jump right into new business business okay we have first on the agenda application number 566 104 strive block 2108 Lot number 10 is a contributing property in the Short Hills Park District uh Brendan and Juliana is it cigan yeah Jama colan okay forgive me thank you um are the applicants this is a regulatory application for various exterior improvements including removal of an oversiz car garage construction of a new three car garage and attached storage shed construction um of the connection between the existing mud room and space above the proposed garage and construction of the open pergula at the rear side of the existing swimming pool if we can have yourself and your professional come up and morning in thank you everybody see this here is this good okay Janine raise your right hand um do you swear or affirm that the testimony of provide on this application tonight will be the truth all truth and nothing but the truth I do welcome thank you please proceed yeah yeah hi so my name is Brendan Culligan my wife Jama and I are the promets at 10 Forest Drive where we've lived since uh 2010 so what I think it just give some context for the uh for the renovation um we first bought the house because we kind of fell in love with the the architecture and the history of it love the contrast between the stone and the brick work and the interior details and gradually in the 14 years since we we bought the house we've done some uh Renovations in inside the house like uh upgrading the uh kitchen bathrooms bedrooms and now we're turning attention to the garage area um frankly it's the the garage area or the garage is hasn't been very useful as an actual car garage we can't actually fit our cars inside so park in the uh we park in the in the driveway um every day so we the idea behind this renovation really is to have a an actual functioning uh garage as well as uh providing some uh home office space for my uh my my wife who was a business in in town um so as part of that we engaged uh John James one of the kind of primary goals of you know the renovation was is really to have something that fits in well both within the existing house um and in the neighborhood and I think uh you know John James has done a really excellent job in my opinion in coming up with a design that I think fits in well but you know we're we're excited about the potential to uh to you know to move ahead with this uh you know with this renovation thank you so the drawings I have here and the photos I'm going to refer to are all the same as were submitted in your packet um 10 Forest Drive is also known as harn house number 39 um it is a contributing and designated structure in the Short Hills Park historic district um it was built in the 1890s um it's in a vernacular style house um it's 2 and a half stor was originally a square it's three Bays wide with a full width front porch and a circular Drive um you can see a picture of that on photograph number one that we submitted um the original house has a stone first floor it has a brick second floor and a hip slate roof with clabber Dormers um it has beautiful shaped brick chimneys that you can see from the front photograph and all of this work is going to remain we're not touching anything on the original Square house itself um the previous editions have brick foundations um and first floor walls and you can see that in picture number two you can see the additions to the left of the main house um and so it's a brick first floor it has clabber second floor it has an asphalt shingle roof and our new additions involve replacing the existing nonfunctional two-car garage so the main house the previous editions kitchen family room and the mud room are all remaining and we're taking off the two-car garage and adding a slightly larger three car garage um and this will give the owners an opportunity to park their cars inside of that garage as opposed to outside partially on their property in adjacent to the street um you'll notice there are no cars in my photographs and I only had to go buy about three or four times to find a day when there wasn't a car out there when they were away um so um that's the main goal of this project is the new garage and in building the new garage um it's located on a 3/4 acre lot it's at the corner of Forest Drive and Park Place and the renovations and additions that we're working on um face towards Parkplace which is the secondary Street the formal front of the facade of the mainous faces onto Forest and the side street is really Park Place which is a much smaller much less traveled Street um and as Allison read in the introduction we're also going to be adding an open pergola um out next to the pool in the backyard and we're also going to be removing a storage shed that's just behind the fence at the front of the property um because that's going to be incorporated with the new garage so let me go to um we submitted photographs so that you could see all the sides of the house photograph number one shows the Forest Drive elevation from the front everything you see there's remaining photograph number two shows the Park Place elevation from the side and you can see the stone and brick house on the right side the previous additions with the brick and clabbered in the middle and you can see the two-car clabbered garage and that's the area we're going to remove and add on to essentially our new garage is replacing the front facade of the existing two-car garage um and it extends um to what you're seeing as the two cars plus the side shed and then that makes enough space for the three car garage and then we're adding a side shed to that as opposed to having the freestanding shed that you see in the left corner um photograph number three shows a direct view of the existing house um and this is the same view that we have on our site plan which is talking about and referring to the materials so we're going to be doing new Carriage style doors that match the existing doors that are there we're going to be doing new clab that matches the existing clab we'll have some brick trim details and have an asphalt shingle roof so everything's going to match that part of the house so when you look at this Photograph this is the area that we're starting to work on from here over and the existing mudroom entry which was done before as a part of the kitchen is all remaining so it's really the garage part of the house that's being changed and added onto and you can see on our site plan here you have the existing house the main four square here faces Drive previous additions were here with the mudroom and you can see this is the part of the two-car garage and this is the addition to add to make it deeper and to make it wider so that the cars can park into it and then this area here is the shed storage on the side similar to The Shed storage that you see in the photograph here um photograph number three just shows the back of the house and excuse EXC me photograph number four and again here you can see we're adding on the portion where the Gable is the Gable's being replaced by the new Gable and the new garage and then picture number five is a photograph towards the pool and the pergola area is going to be where you see the chase lounges um at the edge of the pool there um and you can see that here on our site plan back here it's a per here with an outdoor fireplace and in the firl place we're going to try to replicate the stone of the original house there and we're going to be for all of the patio work or in extensions that's going to be the same random rectangular blue stone Paving that's currently there that will match that um we are using Carriage style doors as I talked about and the windows that we're going to um use will be Norwood wood windows and doors they're insulating glass they're heavy duty windows they will match all the mon and patterns of the previous work on the house and um will also uh give us better Energy Efficiency and these are the windows that were used in the previous Edition and have been replaced at certain areas like in the kitchen in the family room so it will be matching for what the new work is I mean one of the nice things about the Norwood Windows is they have a retractable screen so that you don't have full screens blocking the M patterns on the outside of the windows so that's one of their big Point um on here you can also see we did a fireplace detail and we showed you Arbor details of what the purle was going to look like um if I go to the first floor here um which is drawing number A1 you can see here the outline of the original house you can see the family room kitchen mudroom area here and then you can see the toned walls of the new garage addition adjacent to the mudro now this is exactly where the current wall of the existing garage is only it's much smaller and we can't fit the cars in and this has been deepened and widened so that we can fit cars in and then we have small storage alcoves on the side in a shed there um we've also at the back of the mud room we've added a staircase so that we could get up to kind of the attic space above the garage so that um you can come up to the stair into kind of a loft space that's a partial height space so the edges will be like four and a half in The Middle's approximately I think it's eight and a half to nine under the Gable itself but it's a low part of an attic it's not what's considered full Second Story um but it is attached to the mainous we could have built much bigger but we really don't need that we're just trying to match that same roof Gable at the front of the house over the doors and it creates an attic space we had a need for an office and this is separated because it's not as high as the rest of the house or built up to that same scale so it's really a roof area above the garage and then you can see we showed some of the Interior partitions because we're doing some Renovations on the interior of the house U but there's nothing that's changing anything about that existing facade or when locations and things like that um same thing up on the third floor we're renovating an attic bathroom up there and all the exterior and the windows are remaining the same so that's all interior work um if you look at the elevations on a20 you can see the existing house here and the mud room and then you can see the new garage here and we're simply taking that Gable extending it up so it covers two bays of the garage and then we have a side roof coming off the side for where the third Bay is and then the shed here lean to against the side of the house and so like the clabber that's on the rest of the house that's what we're going to be doing here depending on the grades and where it slopes we'll have a brick base below that where necessary that matches the rest of the house um when you look at the back of the house you'll see the family room addition here the Terrace that comes across with the brick and then this is the CL we're taking the same Gable on the front and running it straight through to the back here and then there's a side roof that has a small Dormer we thought about dormers on both sides but we really wanted to keep the front of the house more minimal so we have a dormer here for more light facing the back and the backyard View and then if you look at the end view of the house here which is the side doorm you can see the main house here the first and second floor and you can see the garage and shed here the shed has the nine square over one windows and the main rooms in the garage in the Dormer have the have the perimeter small lights that are like the other original lights on the house so the ones in the shed match what is up in the attic and all the other ones match what's in the major rooms of the house and then I have the existing plans here if there's any questions but we also did the arbor details here and this will be an open air Arbor and then we will either have a retractable awning or a motorized shade that can close for sun protection but it's not going to be a permanent roof structure it's going to be an open air structure let me see if there the other things um we are planning on going before the zoning board after this and there are a a few existing non-conforming conditions on the house meaning the front yards in both front and the side yards are non-conforming so we're going to be asking for variance for the front yard setback to match what's existing in there because the non-conformity we're also going to be asking for uh variance for a front-facing garage because we already have front-facing garages and we really don't have a choice about that we have a small variance for coverage in order to expand the garages um and we have a small variance for accessory coverage on a corner lot but our total coverage for the lot is conforming those darn Corner Lots they're hard um I think the thing that helps with this lot though is the pool set back adjacent to it it's very well screened by both the side and the front so I don't think there should be any objections to what we're uh proposing because because it is longer as opposed to square it does you can see it really has a lot of space in the backyard and to the adjacent neighbors um and it is very well screened from the street in both sides um so it's not seen at all um and as I said before all the materials are going to match what's currently on the house um so in summary you know our clients really have a demonstrated need for a garage that they could actually Park their cars in and so we're trying to give that to them with some attic storage space and an office space above that as well but tucked away in an attic as opposed to a full second floor um we're really trying to do a plan that kind of defers to the main house and to the materials and character it matches that um and so we're here asking for your approval and comments thank you very much thank you um first of all Barton do you have anything to add um no Mr James summarized it really well um you know they aren't touching the main house uh even though the garage will bit bigger you know we're matching all the same materials uh the Gable end will really not change from the street view that much and you know it meet it meets all the historic design guidelines and standards for rehabilitation and U as he stated they're trying to match all the same materials so I think it's a a good application um and uh John just one thing because uh we now need like construction documents when you submit for permitting after I guess zoning board not problem you could email to me too and that's that's only because we've had some applicants in the past kind of wander off they got a get not a problem so we'll be glad to send your copy of that great thank you great um now we'll start with questions and comments uh from any of the Commissioners do we have any comment I just have one sorry just one quick question the original House was built in 1995 the the addition was added to the house was probably before you bought it correct the one that's for the garage imagine the garage and like the kitchen that was all in addition to the original house yes I'm not sure that it happened um but it was in one if you look at the old um surveys that are in Barton's report then you can see a gradual increase of the house along the back yeah so there've been multiple times and it's hard to say exactly what but it's it's easy to see the demarcation line between the principal two-story structure with the main hip slate roof and the additions that have been put on that with the um asphalt shingle roofs through the years and you can see that principally you see the main house in photograph number one in photograph number two you can see where the addition started yeah definely I was I was just wondering when those were at all the idea I I'll interject too so you know I usually uh include the surveys at the end that have been done and you know if you go to the the Gibson survey which are the only typewritten ones from the late 70s yeah on like the first page at the at the bottom there's usually like a date built so I guess he says Circa 1890 but then he says altered 1953 and they had the permits back then so 1953 is probably the date of when there you go okay yeah thanks for pointing that out anyone else can you can you walk me through the back of the addition and how that's going to look because what I see on your photo is Brick and brick behind everything you got this chimney there and I'm just trying to understand from what you're proposed for the wood clab bird where will that start um the wood clab is going to come from the existing original house because the brick that you see is so you're going to replace the we're going to replace it because it's getting moved back about four feet Beyond where that is so we're losing all that and we felt it was better to do the garage Edition more in clabber than to have it as a brick structure competing with the rest of the house it just the brick Gable to me seems a little bit too prominent for a garage an attic so I I if you think of it as kind of the original house being stone and brick and slate and the first editions were kind of brick and clabber and by the time you get down to the garage it really should be a more pedestrian building so it should be the clabber um with a brick base where we need it for Heights and and everything like that and what's what's the distance from the chimney uh to the addition because you're not touching the chy but you're away from it by a certain distance I'm just I don't need an accurate number just it's I have to look at it to be able to tell you um just the chimneys are rather distinctive oh the main chimneys on the original House are out here at the middle of the main house the chimney you're looking at is the chimney at the back of the previous editions okay that's on the Edition and we're approximately 4 feet away from that okay I mean there'll be some care to you know obviously not bump into that oh absolutely yeah sure yeah you don't need to make more work right so no exactly um and you'll see the chimneys there with with doors on both sides of it from the family room okay and then the Garage comes across here on the other side of the door kind of symmetrically about the door from the spacing of the chimney here but the two chimneys that you see in the prominent front view are way up here in the middle of the existing house the part that we're not touching yeah I was just looking at the photo from the back exactly put everything together so that that helps me yeah exactly I I do just have a question uh since we do have some new members uh can you just go through with us quickly and I know it's on the 201 I think 16 application the materials like you said the Norwood windows um the Norwood Windows we're using uh Clay Wood Carriage style doors okay um we're going to be using an asphalt shingle roof that matches what's adjacent to it and we're going to be using a brick base um that matches the existing brick on the adjacent house okay so the existing materials from the house you're actually just duplicate absolutely need a clarification on that and as far as the color the um we're probably going to maintain the color of the house as it is now I mean we're going to keep a fairly neutral color if we change the pink color um but we haven't talked about changing the pink color okay thank you all right if uh there are no more questions and comments um thank you and I will now open uh the meeting to the FL to the public do we have anyone here who has any comments or questions for this application okay com in um now it's time do I hear a motion to approve uh this application motion to do I have a second second Mrs Canfield yes Mr Davis yes Mr Franco yes Mr Jenkins yes Mr Salin yes thank you very much thank you very much good luck thank you have a good evening wonderful okay now we have application our second application that's number 56793 Highland Avenue block number 2205 Lot number four this is a secting property in the Short Hills Park District uh I believe uh the applicant and please forgive me is that yes am on how do you pronounce I'm sorry okay that's okay no one can prove thank goodness no one get thank you very much very normal for me good so if we could have this morning absolutely thank your do you swear or affirm that the testimony brought on this oblation the TR or nothing but the truth that's thank you so please proceed um I actually didn't know that I need to have a professional I asked Mr bordon and he said that yeah you know you can explain it and you can present yourself so that's why I'm here I try to uh have the um you know the changes listed to to the best way that I can in the PowerPoint that I submitted and um essentially the changes are um basically repairs that are critical and necessary for example uh Windows have to be replaced because they are not functional you can't really open and close or you know um the front door is actually you know very hard I mean it's it's not uh pretty much broken it's hard to open and close we have to replace it um the steps in front of it is broken so the house is has been uh you know pretty much in um I mean my understanding is that no one has been using it for many many years um I believe the original own owner has passed away in 2008 that is my understanding and uh the house has been vacated at least since 2016 or 17 you tried to sell it I mean it didn't sell for for some reason which I don't know and then we decided to buy it uh in October I knew at the time that is it is within the historic district so I tried to uh contact I went to the mil Township and I explained this situation they put me in contact with Mr B and um Ross and I've been communicating since then with him um the changes as I mentioned they are essentially repairs so for example the black top if you look at the photos it's like completely um you know it's it's um very badly damaged or the stairs in the back uh they are really damaged and they have to we are not replacing them we are just trying to repair them um um the uh there is a lot of invasion from the plants around the house who uh essentially destroyed um uh has destroyed the bricks side so we need to restore the brick and Our intention is to restore it to its original shape to the extent that is possible so I really like the brick exterior I think it's very nice uh the only thing that I need to do is try to um hire a professional uh to restore it to its original uh shape um it was recommended to use uh a different um brick uh painting which I'm trying to do that uh I think it's the the recommendation of Mr Ross is acceptable to me to the extent possible um is recommended to use white uh and the black windows and Anderson Windows which uh I can confirm for sure that the windows will be black uh but for the white color of the exterior I can try you know to do that that white staining uh I am not going to actually change the um the uh the space between the braks are you know it's to the extent possible we are not going to change anything uh if some areas are broken we use the same material and the same um something that matches the rest of the brick and for the color of the paint I think I can go with white as is recommended but I may use just some gray or um I I uh I don't think having it entirely white uh it just I don't know at least in the base part I think we need something that doesn't need doesn't get dirty all the time so we probably in the foundation area or in the lower part we going to use uh a little darker like a gray color gray with a gray tone uh the garage door is broken completely so it can't really open and close uh we have to replace the garage door uh again the windows and the front door and the garage they will stay within the exact same frame so we are not doing any demolishing or any structural changes to the exterior or we're just replacing and doing the repair um the the addition the only addition which is U really really critical and necessary is adding a dick to the back so the back of the house it the house has a really beautiful backyard it's a very nice um piece of property but unfortunately the way that is built although it is really really beautiful it's a beautiful structure uh but in my view the biggest defect is that you can't really use the outdoor so there is no deck there is you you I mean in order to access the backyard you essentially have to come from the front yard and go to the backyard so it's essentially not usable so what we are doing is that we are adding a deck which even before I buy the house I uh wrote um to the to the milb township and I also wrot wrote to Mr Ross that we need to add this deck we really need to have some outdoor space and that is the biggest the only addition essentially the biggest change that we are doing so if you look at the plans you can see I try to show in the PowerPoint uh but we are adding a deck and there is a one story in the second floor one story area that uh um basically has a roof on the top of it in the back that roof will be converted removed and converted to a balcony so there is a note in the recommendation I'm not sure if uh if uh it's not clear really in the recommendation if they are referring to the porch or they are referring to the balcony but as it's labeled on the plan uh the balcony is um going to have a roof on the top of it uh I if I understand it correctly the style of the roof um it's recommended uh to be more like a flat type um which uh you know I spoke with architect because I got this recommendation only two days ago he said it's possible and he can he can follow that recommendation there is no problem with that um the uh if if they mean the existing covered porch in the back if there is a small covered porch that we are not actually touching it the screens are broken and we have to replace the screens in the in the uh porch so I'm not sure what is the comment is it about the balcony or if it is about the porch uh but you know it's not uh something that cannot be addressed in in the if if the comment of Mr Ross is about that uh roof that goes on the balcony it's not any any problem I mean my architect can basically handle that um about the G system I mean the roof as you can see is like completely destroyed we have to uh add a new roof but the new roof will be essentially same the same material and as the existing one so we have to repair the roof and the gutter is going to be replaced with the same uh exact same location the exact same pattern is not going to be something different from the existing um the um let's say the driveways will be mostly black top um the uh what else uh uh there are some stairs in the back of the house that goes from the existing porch they're completely damaged and we are going to repair that um that's pretty much it about the exterior uh for the interior I'm not sure if it is something that you want to hear or not but the interior work um we are opening some balls uh the uh the ex the kitchen walls are going to be removed it it's going to be like more like a open floor uh for the interior part segment um I mean I'll be happy to address any question I mean actually the front door uh it's going to be replaced with a new door but uh the I mean this the two the two feet around that opening I need to use a diff probably I have to use a different kind of material to cover it because the U if you look um closely uh the bricks are damaged with uh with with the I mean they're significantly damaged I'm not sure that if we can keep the brick as is or if we have to use a new uh solid surface just around just about about 2T um or 1 ft that actually box that you see around the the front door that needs to the area that probably will have the biggest change compared to the existing one so that's it um uh if there is anything any suggestion on um because there's a lot of parts here maybe Barton can jump in and and help us both understand some of the the missing pieces here so Barton would you mind yeah I think I think we're mostly on the same page uh with the design stuff um it's just a matter of um I've never spoken to the architect and pretty much in every application I speak to the architect so that all these details can get ironed out um so then it's more of a streamlined process for the approval um so I you know just going through everything um you know I I don't think anyone's going to have a problem with putting a a new porch on the back even a large twostory porch um you can see in the photos it's very International you know art modern on the front but on the back it's just kind of your regular house and so that's where I thought it was an opportunity just to kind of tie some of those horizontal type of detail details you know just a matter of changing um railing design and stuff just so it better matches um and I I understand you know there's already some hip roofs back there so maybe we can just relook at that um so it better fits in with the architecture of the house you know I know there's lots of uh brick that's been damaged over the years um and you know the whole front front door so I think you know there wasn't an elevation or a facade drawing or a spec uh exactly what a new new front door would look like or what material would be and you know maybe it can get larger wider as you as you say eliminate the side lights you know we just need to see it and kind of um understand what that's going to actually look like um I um I know you don't want to do a rendering or something but uh even if it was just color specs so we can understand and that's why I provided in the packet just an image of what we were kind of thinking which was maybe it's a a lighter white or a gray or something light gray uh with darker Moon metall looking windows so we make this house look a little more like the style that it was actually intended to be um you know right after World War II so I think we're all on the same page on all these things it's just a matter of kind of just cut sheets and details for exactly what's proposed um you know you're not moving the garage we just need nice nice you know modern looking garage doors uh we just need to know what that what that is like what uh you know just like the previous applicant is using clope garage doors we just need to know what exactly the spec is that's they're going to be replaced with um I I think I don't want to go really too far to change the front door I really want to stay within the same frame and I want to uh keep the existing uh break but I need to um somehow address this solid uh this U the surface I mean the surface is damaged so this area I don't want to really open up I don't want to really change this structure because I like it I mean I think it's something that deserve uh to be preserved and I like it the way it is uh I don't want to go really you know cut the break and change that uh front uh door that much I want to stay within that frame uh so the only problem is that there are several braks that are severely damage and that's the opening of the house and we really have to make a decision to see what kind of material um can be used that fits the house and keeps it it is actually pretty modern although it's like 73 years old I think the architect was the original architect probably was a genius I mean I I really enjoy looking at his original blueprint and I will spend hours and hours because there is so much details on those uh I think it's piece of art in my view and I really like to keep it and preserve it and that's what I like that's why I bought this house I mean it it's it has a lot of Integrity in terms of its architecture and I want to keep that to the extent possible in terms of the garage door I really honestly I don't want to go too far I mean the ex I mean I don't care that much about the garage because it's just on the other side it's not visible I mean I will probably use something basic uh I I like to use modern if it doesn't cost too much as he's suggesting but if it is costing too much then I will just just use some basic but it is actually the a standard uh there is one there's a double door which I'm going to replace with this it's a standard size I'm going to replace with a standard double door and there is a single garage that I'm going to replace with this with a single a standard single one I haven't looked honestly into the pricing and things like that it all depends on the cost in terms of uh the color I agree with him actually U for sure we will go with uh with uh the uh like the contrast of the black and the white I think it's going to be beautiful I think I agree with him it just I mean probably in the um like half btom I will go more a little darker and in the top I mean probably the top 10 feet or thing probably the top 10 feet I will go white I mean I can I can try to do that um anything else that uh oh actually about the cut sheet I actually contacted uh the guy who provided a an estimate for me um I have this print out I it's not a cut sheet as you're asking but the size of the windows are essentially the same we are not we can't really actually afford to cut the break and put new things so they still within the exact same opening of the brck we are just replacing them with a new windows that are functional that that's exactly what we need yeah that's what we are going to do and in terms of um uh yeah 3D rendering I actually ask ask my architect he said like $4,000 and I'm sorry I can't afford it um I mean it's already been very expensive uh I mean um I can't really honestly I I I if I could uh I could draw something myself uh but since we are not really changing we are not changing the structure I don't think I have to really pay an architect to just do a you know something that um I mean I think you can probably easily just imagine we just painting the the it's it's not painting actually it's staining because as far as I understand paint cannot be applied over the brick it has to be a breathable um specific brick stain which that is what I'm understanding and for for me the brick is very important to preserve to the to to the extent that is possible yeah I I think that that's the thing and uh we just need a a spec for what that stainer or paint is going to be so it can be breathable right absolutely I mean uh I you also gave me some instruction about the power washing and things like that I'm going to give everything to my contractor to make sure that he follows uh I mean he uses the material that or not not harmful or for the staining I I can email you exactly what kind of stain you're going to use but as I said the brick exterior is the is very important for me and I really want to make sure that it doesn't get damage or you know it is a breathable s and it can be used actually um um based on your suggestion in terms of the other material I mean like more and things like that that you mentioned we are not going to use anything different I just want to make sure that uh you know as I said the Bri exterior is very important for me personally so I want to preserve it uh make sure that you know it's going to stay uh to the best possible to its original shap even if your contractor just wrote like a paragraph like I'm going to do this and I'm going to use this material I'm going to use this paint I'm going to use this stain I'm me I'm not going to touch I'm not going to repoint these joints you know whatever whatever they want to do that's all we need just a SC of work that's definitely I mean I before even I purchase that is say I will confirm it with you to make sure that is something because for me is as important it's very I'm the owner I mean probably it's I how it looks from the street it'll help absolutely yeah I can do I can do that so right now if you don't mind let me me just see if any of the Commissioners have any questions comments for you um anybody I have a just a couple quick questions so the idea when this is going to be done the colorways are going to probably look like this picture that's here with the white dark in the bottom like you know I don't want to go white all the way down because it gets dirty all the time okay so portion house will be white yes the other but all the windows will be black frame the windows for sure will be black I can confirm that and then um with the the front of the house here I know you say you have to replace that the bricks around here so is it just around this or is this portion going to be removed as well uh this is a really complicated thing I can't find anything even close to it so I really want to keep it I don't want to um I want to keep it in its original shape I don't really want to open that brick I don't want to cut the brick what I want to do is to replace that uh front door then try to repair that white thing around it and the the the area that one feet or two feet uh that is something that I have to make a decision to use a kind of solid surface that matches uh yeah that matches yeah that matches every I mean it has to be something that goes well and that that is important for me I'm not going to uh demolish the break for sure I mean I don't want to demolish the Bri I I want to keep it I want it to have the same personality the same I really want to preserve it the way it is um okay yeah I just was Wonder read this clarification on and I appreciate any suggestion actually I look forward to hear any suggestions that you have because for me it's really important to keep its character um yeah that design I mean that whole front door is like a big portion of the house like it's a small yeah I mean the part that Chang is like probably less 10% a lot less than 10% of the entire front elevation okay unfortunately severely damaged so there has been plant around it that has invaded it yeah the vine I'm sure V all front of the house at some point in time yeah but so it's just the brick that damaged the whatever do you know what that's made out of around the door like the material is that like concrete it's like no I mean it's it can't be even found I mean neither my archit take nor my uh contractor can find anything like that I don't know how they did it okay um it's not something that can be replaced and I try to repair it I mean it's possible that that white area I think that can be repaired I mean for sure so there's no chance that that's going to be no no we are not I'm not going to remove just the actual door is going to be replaced with a functional door okay I think I'm going to use a wood door I'm not I don't like the midal ones I will I will is a wood door right now and I'm going to replace it with a wood door too something that goes with the modern structure okay that all my questions okay anyone else uh you mentioned you have the architect's plans of the house uh has your architect looked those over there might be some inspiration for how to repair the property looking at those original Plants uh I did actually and it's very hard to open those original group prints without damaging they they like chip they break yeah and I need to preserve them that is also the original plan is something that I really want to keep it's it's it's amazing I wish you could see it because for example this round window on the top of the main he's he has so much details in that drawing that you won't believe it I wish you could take a look at that uh it's very nice I mean that's amazing yeah I just I just suggest uh trying to incorporate what was done back in 1947 when the house was built what you're trying to do now you know um and and it's possible that there may be some inspiration there and how to address some of these issues um I'd also recommend you as a owner of a historic property now to get in touch with our historical society and work with them potentially to preserve those plans it is a part of the history of that property that you have now and you're right let's not lose it so I I suggest working with them to try and preserve it as best you can the paper can be preserved or even just you know taking photograph of it so it's I did I already I mean digital already I mean but as much as I could um open them and take photos and I submitted the photos to my contractor to my architect they actually I mean it's quite quite fascinating I mean I personally enjoy spend hours endless hours on those plans I think I think it's just we're looking for some uh finality of what's going to be done some of the options here so think that's really what we're we're looking for yeah as I said I mean I really like the house to be preserved d uh in its original shape because I believe it's it's it's a very nice very very nice uh um it has a lot of um architectural Integrity I mean if even if when they open the walls I mean they found out all of all of the windows from inside it actually every single window has a metal Fame so that's how much they did it's it's all metal Beams I mean it's they've done a really amazing job I really want to keep it okay thank you anyone else I do have a couple of clarifications but I first want to stop and say uh thank you very much for taking on this project uh we know it has been um empty for quite a long time and it needed a lot of work um so we appreciate than you taking this on um a few clarifications uh because I'm not completely sure I completely understand the front door but first of all I'd like to stop and say that um I know there was some um maybe and I don't want to call it a misunderstanding but this is a you know a designated house in a historic district um and so some of these details like the front door um you know the two color kind of thing really you know isn't something that would have been done during that period of time unless Bart please step in I didn't I don't think it was am I to color what I'm sorry the darker color on the bottom to the white color on the well I wanted actually to have everything like white wash with like a gray undertone but when I realized thought more about it I think he has a probably better uh better idea I like to have it white uh on the top but I mean on the bottom it's going to get really dirty all the time um at least in the foundation area I want to have it like more GRE but what I'm saying is I don't think that would have been something that would have that would have been something during that time period that would have been done I'm not even sure if I'm going to do it that way okay so please just confirming okay so I'm just kind of commenting and then we can kind of go from there um I see that you are doing Anderson Windows but we don't know uh what series uh I actually wanted to do a series they came back with like $200,000 I can't really afford it uh so I'm going with the basic uh you know 100 series uh within the same within the same uh essentially uh um we are not cutting the brick because it's very expensive so we are feeding uh the the Anderson Windows within that existing cut and the block window is that remaining or you putting new uh glass blocks in that particular uh all picture windows will be picture windows right so we are replacing with picture windows okay only the picture windows not the block window oh oh you're talking about that wrong one I mean we had that is going to stay within the same frame too but it will be like a picture window that part of it part of it has to um I think probably uh a feet or like it's going to be picture window probably 80% of it something like that uh but it's going to have some sort sort of framing within that opening so the opening will stay uh but uh it will be a picture window essentially it's not going to be a functional window you're talking about that vertical long one yeah that that was a project to find something that you know I spend a lot of time myself with the person who is the expert and I Anderson window they came and they did all the measurement uh there will be two there will be two picture windows one on the second floor one on the first floor and there will be some framing that is my understand okay so I think um again I think if I can say what we look at is the changing of the house so in other words uh you know is it would they have done that in that period of time or is that glass block a signature for that particular style of house so I think what's Happening Here is we don't know right now you know what I mean what you're proposing so we can't really it's only what you're saying but you're not 100% sure yet no I'm pretty sure actually about the windows I'm pretty sure okay uh about the uh front door uh W Windows will be black will be Anderson will be 100 series will be precisely within the existing U existing brick uh opening so that is for sure I mean it's done uh the second the front door will be a wood uh that will be um a modern style something that goes well with the rest of the uh of the uh building I mean it's I understand but before this commission vote we would need to know those elements those pieces in other words spec sheets what it's going to look like um I'm not sure I think I may two of us or three of us may only know what an Anderson 100 series looks like so we can't move forward with this application without having those details to approve look it's like a chicken and egg question I won't be able to really order anything and I mean all I'm saying is that you know Anderson 100 series black one are going to look exactly like what you are seeing there they're just black they are just exactly what you're seeing right now there they're not any different okay but I just asked you about the the glass the glass block one is something that is going to be a picture window it's going to be picture window and as a matter of fact I can maybe I can find them here in this uh look these questions are the question that should have been forwarded to me probably maybe two weeks ago so I have everything ready for you unfortunately I got these um uh feedbacks only two days ago leaving me essentially no no time and because the building department is not going to review until the historic board is giving the okay I mean I'm I'm having to pay um you know for two property taxes two very large mortgages you know I can't really move to in this house and you know it's been a lot of delays that is something that I very upset about is that just the delays I mean delays are something that are really costly and I really can't really you know have any more delays so unless I have this uh you know I mean I could have probably bring everything to you if I have if I knew that you're going to need this for tonight but I didn't get it on unfortunately ahead of time so uh I can submit everything to you but and on window 100 if you want me I can I mean you can Google search I mean it's not something that is um I mean it's very straightforward it's going to look exactly like the existing Windows they are not any different they just have it La exp okay so and you know one thing that we didn't mention was the retaining wall um you know some of the what you're going to do with that existing R we're going to repair it to keep it as close as possible to the existing uh but it's like completely destroyed we don't want to bring it down uh you can see the photos so it's going to look pretty much like existing but but the rep it's going to be repaired we have to repair it just can't I I am I'm truly trying to think how to help you and also help my commission better make a decision here um not really sure where the connection fell off or the timeline to which it happened but as I had mentioned in our com emails too um that this historic house and what designation means I think you're very clear that anything that touches the front of the house whether it's Windows roof front doors retaining walls Etc it needs to meet the the standards and this board has to approve what your requesting so we aren't 100% sure by just what you're giving us we can't look up what you're telling us so I think the best approach and now I'm going to put Barton's um Barton to the test here um but it seems like that we're missing some pieces but in a very kind of minor way so right we we just I just need to speak to your architect we need demo proposed plans elevations all four elevations very clear what's staying what's changing and then um just call outs even call outs just Anderson window you know and then you have the spec but um that's why it's easier to talk with the Architects and Engineers because they know exactly what we're we're talking about and uh and then just the changes on the rear the rear porch it's it's not really that much work even the front door I think that sounds within the realm of possibility uh we just need to to see it and understand what material it's going to be and uh and the glass block I has to stay because that's the character defining feature um on the you know the main facade so it's broken actually we can't keep it it's broken you just have to prepare it in kind I can't I can't really find anything I can't it it has to be actually replaced all of the windows have to be replaced and certainly uh we're not opposing the windows being replaced and certainly with kind and that means with um similar or exact what's there that particular window is a signature for that particular style of house which can't stay unfortunately it it is broken it has to be repl so it just has to be replaced with the same I don't have that it's it's not it's it's been something that has been used 75 years ago it's doesn't exist okay um and as a matter of fact I mean honestly I contacted this historic board before I buy this house and I explained this situation I wouldn't have bothered if I knew that you know some broken stuff has to stay so I mean this could have been done many many months ago I mean I I if I would have hear from you that you know for example some very specific specific things are over there that cannot be prepared because this is a historic house I wouldn't have I that is yeah I approached the township I approached uh Mr Ross I did my homework and I didn't get any um any objection I mean at that time otherwise I wouldn't have um and I certainly understand and I I'm really trying to work with you here so I'm hoping you'll work with me because I do have a timeline of exactly uh the email that were sent and certainly when Barton responded um and some details as and and as we have spoken you know the timeline of all the emails there were over 22 um back and forth so what I'd like to do here is if so you better understand what it means to have a designated house in a historic district because I think that's where the clarification either your uh realtor or your I think in these emails it was the contractor the architect that did not share that information a matter of fact you even stated that they said that it's none of our concern uh as an h no it's not what they said they actually referred me to the township I approached the township before I purchased the property and they referred me to Mr Ross and I email him exactly explaining what we are doing and whatever honestly we are doing is precisely to repair and restore this house uh so essentially we are not really doing anything against the U against the uh I mean as a matter of fact we we are the one who is taking paying for all the cost to preserve the house to make it make sure that it can be a property that is habitable it's livable we can live in house and we we we have done our best I mean we are not doing any demolition we are not doing any destruction to the exterior I mean we are not really we are just doing everything that is necessary basic necessary things okay again I think there is a misunderstanding a little bit um and you know Barton even though you did reach out uh to Barton Ross on October 17th um I understand that he didn't receive that email for whatever reason um but when you contacted him again on December 19th uh he returned your call within two hours or he returned your email within a couple of hours so um that was actually when I heard from the mil Township for the first time that I need to have the historic yes that's why what they told me then I contacted back again otherwise you know I mean honestly I did the best that I can I could and uh I I did all of the paperwork um I mean I I did whatever I could right and um look you know I don't think there is something that is that significant that should um you know prevent the project as I said you know uh the the way that the project has been stopped for many months right now it's very costly and you know it this these delays are you know coming out of my pocket they're causing a lot of problems for me for my family and you know I understand the mission of historic district I understand that as a matter of fact I value that I it's important for me but what I don't understand is that we are trying to actually we we are the one who is trying to preserve this structure to the best possible we are not demolishing the structure we are not making a new construction we're just making it something that we can live in it and that's that's I mean that's the best we can do what else can be done again I think it's the understanding of what is actually important to Historic preservation and what's important to use so that that house has a designation for reason and demolishing by taking out the signature piece the glass block that type of thing you are changing the appearance from the road so let's get past that for a minute so there has to be some give and take here right okay so what I'd like to do is if I take this to a vote okay I'm not sure how my commission will vote with the lingering pieces that are missing here okay so what I'd like to do is I would like to somewhow commission Barton and myself uh if you allow Barton to speak with your Architects we can get a clearer idea and that possibly and Barton you might want to stop me on this that possibly once that's done within a short period of time then we and if this commission allows us we can send it through the minor work review subcommittee to to approve if you trust us to do so so that way at least possibly we could do it in a more timely manner so how how much time is this timely manner that makes a difference if you get your Architects I can have him talk to him tomorrow I mean that's not a problem at all I only work for the town on Tuesdays so I'm happy to set it up for for Tuesday um at that point maybe there's a possibility that they are he's able to get him something maybe within your Architects they can work together within that week maybe I would say probably couple weeks yeah a couple weeks because your architect I'll just have to draw and specify a few more items um can you at least email me exactly what you want from my maybe I can prepare it for by Tuesday I mean I didn't get that until two days ago so can you at least email me a precise description of what you need from him and I have him to prepare it by Tuesday when he talks to him he can email it for to him absolutely so I think what we should do is um maybe just mention some of those things this evening and then we can make sure that in detail that they uh Barton please that anything that the commission that you'll be able to get that to them or to the architect also yeah we can definitely do that sooner rather than later yes okay um I can start out if you or Zach would you like to start out with or I can it doesn't matter yeah I mean I have five things that written down that I think we need clarification on first being all the windows and mentioned enters a window so that's great I think we want to have agreement on the type of windows that are being replaced and two would be the glass block at the front how that's going to be treated and you know we're not talking about changing it we're talking about fixing it and I think we're 100% in agreement with what you're saying if it's broken it needs to still function as as a window um but changing it to a picture window an open window that's a change so we're going to try and look to see that it can be repaired in kind and that's the standards that we look for um the um uh the front door is is we need clarification on that we need understand what you intend to do there and what it's going to look like so that needs to be clarified the back of the building we had some discussions about that as to what you're doing with the deck versus screen and porch that needs to be finalized and clarified for us to understand and pass approval on that and then lastly we just need um uh clarification or um agreement to restore the brick as Barton has put forth into material to I I think that touches most everything that was described to what you want to do that I don't think we have full say to right yeah the whole the whole brick around the house I think that's uh you know we're looking for a complete application and that's why it's difficult for us to say right now that we could vote on this so we're trying to tell you what we want to see and as long as we we have that then I think we can move well as far as I heard from him the application didn't complete I mean weeks ago then I got the recommendation of the board two days ago and I can meet those recommendation that's not a problem but it just wasn't enough time I can make those happen by Tuesday but I really need a time for the for the approval because the township apparently doesn't do it until I get get this part done I we can work with the township when we've approved it to get things notified to the building department it's starting Tuesday I mean I can address every single point in that recommendation by Tuesday so when you talk with my architect you will have all of that information and then from there okay so that would need to go to Barton he will confirm it with your architect are there any other things that we' left out I'm sorry this the list that is in the recommendation that's I'm I can address everything in that recommendation okay I think now it's just comments um I need clarification and I'm not an architect but I would need clarification on the two-tone and you know what I mean by that the lower section being darker than the upper I I would really need to see a visual whether that was done in that period of time again keep in mind when we say the streetcape it means not changing that house you know what I mean it's kind of keeping it within the period to which it was built with the architectural style to which it duplicates you know what I mean so that's what the the white we're okay with the black windows we understand you know the old windows need to be replaced um but there are some signature pieces that we can't um you know look that that if if you are defining that long uh you know um block window as a signature um for this house this is actually less than probably 2% of the entire exterior so I know this is your definition this is your definition for this house for me or anybody who is looking at this house the entire structure is something that defines this historic house not just this single block which has to be repaired and it can't be even repaired uh I mean to the original shape and original format and as as much as you want to Define this as the entire character of this building I I really don't think that that you know a small probably less than 5% of the entire exterior defines it I mean this is a really big structure and um you know just forcing a homeowner to is I mean defining something as the entire character of this house and we want this for sure to be something that we want to stay in that way I mean that's something that just it's not uh I mean it's it doesn't make any sense I mean to me we have to have this house to live in this house and we will do our best to preserve it and you know just you know as of this moment I mean honestly before even I closed the house I had the plans ready and I submitted to the township so I paid for all of these I contacted you ahead of time I mean to make sure that this is this is possible I did did everything that I could and I have every right to move into this house I have every right to live in this house and you know it just shouldn't it shouldn't be me to pay for all of these things and you know having to pay for I probably I don't know over 10,000 a month for its mortgage of two different houses paying for all the taxes and not being able to live in it you know it just it's very unfair and I really uh I honestly I I don't know I mean I did my best to address all of the concerns and that's the best I can first of all I I want to also just State um when Barton says your application is complete it means that all of the notices have been out there's there's this has happened this has happened but once he sets and reviews this he does then ask for additional information so we have it up here in other words he did exactly what he was supposed to do saying the best way to get this application approved through this board is to can you get this and this and this which was given to me two days ago that is my position I I mean stay positive here okay I'm helping you I can have you come back next month in front of us so you have a month to gather all this information but what I'm doing here is I'm saying here are a few things that we can't do and that we we gave you that list okay what we're willing to do is the subcommittee is willing to take a look at this application once you have all of these things and try to get this through faster for you okay and be sympathized with all of this but we can't necessarily take that into consideration if we come back up here the signature piece is the front door The Brick the block the style of the house what you do with it it it that is the signature of the house so it's not just that block but we do know that there are a few things historically that you need to preserve as far as that block goes you're never going to replace it with that block that was probably pressed at a certain date and time to repair it chances are there's block today and I think they still make it today that you can replace what's there we understand that with what is today and I to my knowledge I don't think it's changed much from the 40s to today so again we're just saying that the signature of this house and the style of this house and the architectural design that you love about this house we're trying to visually preserve it from as a streetcap that's the garage doors that's the color that's everything else so let's work together and let's not try to fight but there are certain criteria that we have to meet as a designated historic house within historic district all your neighbors had to follow the same guidelines um well I actually see houses that are demolished entirely actually the the house that I have compared to the work that has been done all over it just whatever I'm proposing is just essential repair to this house and I see all around the area what has been done in this around this house and honestly work together yeah that's what I'm trying to do I have been trying to let's work together um let's see if we can get this through in the next couple of weeks through the subcommittee um again again and I'm speaking for my my fellow Commissioners here but uh if you all agree we can send this through um you know through that subcommittee but I think you need to listen what the Commissioners are looking for here so we need some give take here um I have the list from so I that list as I said at the beginning it it will be met I mean there is no problem it's just a matter of time it was given me two days ago my archit is not even available was not even available to do the job but by Tuesday I will have everything for him so this can for okay thank you very much um so legal can you please direct us do we need to take a vote to push it to the subcommittee or I think that would be wise okay um so I'd like to make a motion that we move this application um after uh some of the requests that have been or all the requests we've made uh for the sub committee to then um make a approve uh the response review yes does everybody understand what I kind of so I made motion do I have a second second thank you um so Crystal this is canville yes Mr Davis yes Mr Franco yes Mr Jenkins yes Mr Sal yes okay so we'll be talking I'm sure uh Barton and yourself and um certainly I'm available also by T you have everything for for the list that you proved I think he wrot yeah I I'll type it up in email so everyone understand yeah okay sure thank you very much okay I forgot totally where I am hold on you know what we're gonna do I'm well prepared now thank you very very much okay so uh this our next application I apologize is um application number 572 51 L street block number 308 block number four it's a contributing property in the Wyoming District um can you please pronounce your name yes you could call me Tabby Gillum okay okay Tabby um I just want to remind the commission and especially the new members this is a conceptional review application we will not be voting on it this evening what we're doing is uh I'm assuming Tabby's going to ask us for some advice before she proceeds um but uh this application is for various exterior improvements including um a new two and a half story rear Edition all right thank you can we we don't have you in oh all right I'll still tell the truth all right so we own a 1922 Sears Martha Washington um we're only the third owner in the hundredy year history of the house um we bought it in 2016 and at that time it was covered in aluminum siding which we removed and discovered the beautiful original siding underneath um we also did a project a couple of years ago replacing uh a number of the windows but not all of them um they there were some PVC Windows there were some non-functioning windows we replac them with wood windows and part of this project will be replacing all of the windows so they are all of the non-wood windows so they are consistent the windows in the front and on the first floor are the originals um so we really just we restored those we will be keeping those um the project really does not impact the front of the house at all uh the driver for doing this is we have three young children and if you look at the second floor plan we have essentially two bedrooms bedroom three and bedroom two won't change bedroom four is actually a much narrower room right now and where you see the laundry and and linen area that's just like a little office so we really need a four bedom we have one bathroom that five of us are sharing we need this project um and just to give us a little bit of a more family space with a kitchen family room a mud room so we enter from the rear instead of right into our fireplace um so it's not a huge addition but I think it'll make a very big difference to our family uh to have this space um if you look at the third page page you can see where we are we're on lynen on the left right across from the tennis courts between Wyoming and Myrtle um the two-car garage has a sort of a funny bumped out driveway that's kind of driving a lot of the shape of the addition So the plan is to come right up to the edge of that driveway and that'll be where the the mudroom entrance is um we have a nice level lot and it's it's fairly deep for the Wyoming neighborhood Hood um it's about a it's 200 ft deep uh so we have actually been looking for three or four bedrooms for a number of years and it's very hard to find in Wyoming um there are a lot of houses like ours and um they don't have quite as nice a lot so we really want to stay where we are and expand um so looking at the rear of the house um you can see on the left side of the house the windows that are back there the layout it's not really part of the original design so really the the addition will actually I think enhance the rear of the house quite a bit um we you know this is very conceptual so we're one thing we're considering is putting a fireplace at the back of that but that's absolutely Something That We're flexible about um and whether or not that becomes a chimney or just a little gas fireplace with ventilation we're very open to um on the view from 49 Lindon uh you can see the view from the East we are envisioning this sort of like little bumped out window that's very similar to the original bumped out um Parts on the other side of the house which are original to the Sears Martha Washington um and that falls under the existing roof line so I I think that's all within the envelope that's acceptable um and then in terms of kind of what we're envisioning we are working with um actually my parents who have designed and built hundreds of historic homes in New England um so uh this is this is their specialty is creating authentic details and they'll be happy to speak with Bon um and the window company that we would like to use they did our replacement project a few years ago they have a great relationship with my parents and they're a small wood window manufacturer in Vermont and they uh specialize in historic Windows typically for earlier houses but they can absolutely match the six over one pattern that we have on our house um and they do they are very energy efficient um they are wood uh they're Pine or mahogany they're they're just a great window and I'm happy to provide all of the the specs on those um and happy to take any questions wow okay do we have any questions or comments she's looking for any feedback uh I guess my only thing the fireplace it shows it's like a stone is that finish 100% absolutely not this is just sort of floating ideas we're we're very flexible on what that could look like opposed to it like matching the existing chimney this brick yeah I I think that would probably actually be my preference okay okay that's really the only question I have anyone else yes no it's nothing crazy Bart would like to add yeah it's great to have you I just have uh just in their renderings maybe it was just invert but you're keeping the main brick chimney in the center of the yes the original yes that's just that is just inadvertent some of this is also that we've been doing all this long distance so we need to confirm some measurements once my parents come for a visit so I will uh remind them to put the jimy in I would like to make a comment but mine's more um adding the outdoor fireplace to the back of your your fireplace so you have outdoor I would love that I don't know I'm not an architect or am I in keeping with uh but that just seems like a it would be really nice uh in terms of like Landscaping if we were to do like a stone patio out the back or to alter the pathway to the front door is that something we also should run through the commission here yes okay we've not gotten that far yet I think it's just uh it would go through a minor work review yeah most applicants just do like a you know they take their property survey and just do like a little landscape design over top okay that's also more so we have it on record that these are the Chang that were made to this historic house I do remember your name now because we worked together a long with the windows with the windows and I know you're uh the family I remember all of that and uh just the fact that you guys have really paid attention to details on the work that you've already done so thank you yeah I think uh we've given you our blessing um Pizza Oven back I'll tell my husband it's required the the HPC demands yes anything else I need to put in there party that you're throwing right wonderful it's such a pleasure I hope you were able to help it I I can't say anything bad about this glad though that you like the brick IDE that was also yeah I think I think that's right yeah okay yeah I mean I think the only thing I would say not the walking away just to look in the neighborhood and you know make make it fit in with the neighborhood two doors down there's a rather large house that has been done I don't think that's a contributing to our district I guess at that one um but you know so it's not going to be added character given that that one is there but there most of the homes in in Wyoming are small as you yes experience right you can find the four bedroom so um that's why we look to make sure that the the roof line is below the existing you know that it's like that you almost wouldn't notice it when you drive it and go oh look at this addition yeah and that's kind of nice way to to to put addition on to the start property so um in terms of the materials I would just look around the neighborhood like we're talking about with the chimney and stuff I don't know what's on the street or in the neighborhood but see what's around maybe your your architect your folks can get some inspiration from that yeah we're I mean we're talking to builders now my preference would be we have this like the original sighting is like the Dutch lap and I don't know that we need to continue exactly that sighting but I would like to use wood um on the the rear of the house as well and I see a lot of mixed materials like a shingle and a clapboard from that kind of colonial revival era around the neighborhood um and we have talked to both of our neighbors the the house to our left was redone about 10 years ago and the house to our right has a very similar addition um and they're both excited about the project so toar thank you all thank you very much yeah thank you for sharing s okay excellent um it's time to open the meeting floor to the public um so I do have to ask is there anyone here um for the open meeting floor okay um we can move on then uh discussion item I I really have no discussion items this evening um do anyone if anyone like to discuss anything moving forward so just just a suggestion I'd like to make um you know I'm seeing what was produced here and the process um where they came shared the ideas some renderings that to me seems like the right way to go about this whereas the previous applicant I think there was some frustration because I think there was a lack of understanding of the process I don't know if there's a way to sort of Define what the ideal process would be and what level of detail you guys are looking for and to have that if it's not already in a public space so that way when people are considering taking on a project like the previous applicant they'll have a single place to go and say okay well I'm going to need these plans I'm going to need these types of details you know I'm going to be changing the windows they want the tear sheets uh you know etc etc that way you know someone like the previous acent that hasn't been through this before doesn't have the benefit of having parents that you know have a company that specializes in this stuff um actually has a has a has a a chance you may want to consider for additions I don't know if it's a requirement I think the renderings really uh really help and I know that that's something I think he talked about on the planning board of maybe making applicants do renderings that might be something to consider you know didn't she mention something that it was like $4,000 renderings from her architect or something she didn't have that or did I missar that yeah so that was why she didn't have rendering that's the last applicant but we've had people that are looking to buy property commit and give us right a conceptual presentation and We'll advise them on it so you know that's something we definitely have done in the past right no what I'm saying is I think that needs to be publicized more because um you know the way I see it having this individual come in you guys had a conversation you could make suggestions and in the early stages I think that's very beneficial because it could potentially help save time and money you know not having to come back to this board multiple times and I think that maybe that needs to get communicated that part of the part of what this board can do is to help someone who's considering a renovation or a change if you come before them you guys can work with them that seems like what you guys do do but I don't think everyone is aware that that's one of the functions we need a flowchart for folks no to to look at and just see what's the typical process I do agree I I do think that we did a lot more conceptional um applications years ago but what ended up happening is now it's uh truly about time you know what I mean so um even though uh they this application will have to come in front of us again as a full application so that's two months um it didn't seem like that that's the direction so when originally um with the prior application um again I I can certainly give you a timeline too yeah I've been copied on lot of the emails for the prior application and what I've noticed is I feel that there was a lack of understanding on the part of the applicant as to exactly what was required and if it is outlined there you know maybe that's the applicant should looked into it but if there's a way that we could have like a nice graphical like flowchart or just promote a greater accessibility that you know they could just pick up the phone and call if they have question instead of you know waiting and and saying okay I think I have everything it's clear that they they didn't right right right so somehow being directed to this website and we've been working also on that for quite some time and um I know Barton you did a whole education piece with the uh building department Etc um so uh maybe we could maybe recruit you to help us get that better um and an easier process maybe that's something you know it sounds like the prior applicant talked to the building Department prior to coming here maybe the building department could have told them hey you know these are the things looking for I see you have plans but there's no details uh on you know what the the make and model the window will be exactly or you know the door the dimensions or all that so um if the applicants are aware of this stuff earlier I think it could cut down on unnecessary frustration well thank you having a new set of eyes and someone who can help push that forward would be terrific so yeah and you know every every week I answer dozens of questions usually from um Realtors or people looking to purchase a property and they're like hey what's this mean that it's historic can you you know walk me through it and so that's that's actually a large part of what we do I I honestly don't know what happened in the prior application how it got so far it was submitted with plans to the building department for weeks before anyone even I I don't know what happened but normally it actually does work pretty well that people uh know to contact ahead of time or the realtor knows that it's in the historic district um I I honestly think realtor Outreach would be the best thing just making sure they all know hey when you're trying to sell one of these properties you know tell them you know we're happy to talk it through you know what do you you know hey I need an addition I need a mudro I need a garage whatever and you know we can just kind of explain well if you do it like this it shouldn't be an issue if you use the right materials not a problem right so so just to give you some background uh we had educational Outreach PRI we were putting in a process right before uh Co and so uh Barton looked into even giving uh or seeing how uh realators can be uh get a accreditation for showing up to one of these information sessions we looked into that um so we were kind of on that path and then Co hit and things went astray and but it is something um that we probably again need to look into it it's also something now that statistically now we can show realators seem to think that historic properties are harder to sell or or not as easy as sell but we can now prove that locally that is not true there is a 0.2% difference and it varies every year um as to the time on the market Market whether the price they get full value or asking price or within some reasonable amount so now it's something we can go to these realators showing them this myth of you know we've done the work so um again we should probably maybe look into that um maybe some workshops for the reals in towns they can learn about the value of you know historic properties and that they're not livm in you can make changes here's the procedure that they need to be aware of that way they can uh educate their clients that are considering a storic home you know what they're what they're getting themselves involved with and that there are resources available to to help them right I think that would go a long way so maybe you know revisiting that would be beneficial I think to um to the board and the greater understanding of you know how these historic properties uh work and how the process works sounds great so uh you know what that means now board members I'll be recruiting for educational Outreach again so but no I appreciate um all of you and thank you for um you know supporting us and um you know this is part of the process right and we can make it better so um this concludes our meeting for this evening um I move to adjourn does anybody agree second second okay Med thank you guys