I'd like to call this meeting to order I will now read the open public meeting statement in accordance with Section Five of the open meetings act chapter 231 public laws 1975 we advise that notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board town hall and serving the officially designated newspapers notice stating that this meeting would take place at the Town Hall at 7:30 p.m. on March 7th 2024 Mrs Canfield here Mr Davis here Mr Frankle here Mrs gayor Mrs glat here Mrs Wanga here Mr Jenkins here Mr Sing here we will now move to announcements uh do any of the Commissioners have announcements they would like to make hearing none we'll move to meeting minutes the minutes of February 1 meeting have been distributed to the Commissioners are there any additions or [Music] Corrections do I hear a motion to approve motion to approve second second minutes have been approved thank you we'll move now to memorializations [Music] um you I thought it was new business yeah um so memorializations um from February 1st or February right yes um um application number 566 10 Forest Drive are the applicants and also the consent agenda items uh which were we had two of them uh in the past month hope you guys had a chance to look at them uh 32 Wells Lane and 185 Sagamore road do I hear a motion to approve the memorializations motion to approve second second thank you um well now move on to unfinished business oh yes I apologize um Nicole Mrs Canfield yes Mr Davis yes Mr Frankle yes Mr Jenkins yes Mr s yes Mrs glat um I don't think I'm eligible here you wen't here this Wonga you weren't here either okay [Music] um we have no um old business so we'll move on to new business um should I do this one first or okay um I'd like to move we consider a motion to recommend to the township committee a motion to designate the Short Hills Village uh historic district do I have a second a second thank you R Mrs Canfield yes Mr Davis yes Mr Frankle yes Mr Jenkins yes Mr saling yes Mrs glad yes Mrs Wanga yes thank you um um now we'll move on to application number 571 that's 102 Cyprus Street I apologize hold on one second um is there any discussion on the motion that we just made in the audience okay any comments from the public thank you um um later okay is that okay y okay um now we'll move on to application number 571 102 Cipher street block 206 Lot number 22 it's a non-contributing property in the Wyoming historic district and forgive me but a cure tiagi close enough and you become oh my gosh Sharma I gotta get that one right okay I'm very proud of my it's my parents fault I have to change my name no it's just I don't have an ear for that I apologize so this is a regulatory application for very ex exterior improvements including raising the house by one story a new roof construction of a new front Portico twostory rear porch new Windows Doors garage door Roofing siding Landscaping Improvement improvements Etc um if we can have the applicants and professional for this application be sworn in that's okay or affirm that the testimony provide tonight on this application to the commission will be the true call truth and nothing but the truth yes go ahead please proceed hi uh good evening uh my name is Chris Mao I am an architect and planner in the state of New Jersey and I have been before this board but it has been quite a few years since I've been before this board um I don't know if you need my qualifications or if it's uh is your license up to date paid for an up to date you're good um my clients are putting an addition on their existing home all we have an there in the back corner you thank you perfect and um as you can see in your set of drawings on the last page which I believe is uh page A4 of the drawings shows what the existing house looks like now and I anticipate that all of you had a bit of a chance uh to drive by and also there's photographs on the very first page that me the subject property it is a brick ranch with a uh garage below and it is um a reasonable size house uh but my client needs a little bit more room because his uh father is going to be moving in with them I believe both your parents right they'll spend some time in a year uh you know during Co times they my father went to they need the extra space and the house is was built in the 1950s the early 50s and it's very typical of a 50s style post-war uh structure it's very simple and um what we would like to do is do an ATA level and bring it up a little bit more to what a lot of the homes in Milburn and Short Hills are um adding a few Gables a little bit more decoration using Hardy plank um siding in the front keeping the brick on the first level we we like that feature and then incorporating a porch a front porch and then also um some higher windows and some higher spaces the rear though it appears to be three stories the property drops considerably um right now the deck ends uh deck deck ends here they like to bring the deck all the way across and they'd also like to bring a deex upstairs for the bedrooms upstairs and as you can see the dotted lines of where the roof lines are existing that's what we are raising up and the first floor is essentially staying the same uh the only differen is is a little bit of a bump out with the vestibule because as you can see on the existing drawings the vestibule is pretty minuscule two people can't take off their shoes at the same time can't over at the same time so we're pushing out the vestibule about four feet and then adding a covered porch upstairs we're adding a master bedroom wing on the um left side a bedroom to the rear an office um because my client works at home many days and then a study Loft for their child um as you can see on the site plan on sp1 um the existing house is not really being expanded other than the front porch and the V vle these darker areas here are um the Decks that you can see so we're pretty much keeping the footprint going up uh the addition to the second floor is approximately 1700 square feet and we have approximately 1700 square feet on the first floor the materials that we were looking to use would be a darker tone hearty Plank with white windows and white trim white fases um we would be using a smooth board unfortunately the samples come you know came with the uh wood tone or wood whatever imprint um but we would be using smooth so these are the the three colors that we're thinking about using for the house and like I said then they would be white trim and toets and then we were looking at a moderate gray roof that would go with that siding I really don't like a black roof with um the darker siding I I feel it the mass is just too much so a a lighter a medium gray roof gives a little bit more uh change and we are going to be going with um ASAC the white ASAC um for the corner boards the sofits the FAS and the trim around the windows and doors and we are going to be using a white Anderson window um for the new areas the exist the existing um already has fairly new white windows and we are planning on keeping them so we are going to be matching the existing [Applause] Windows anything else well questions I mean because there's always something and that can add to it so uh I think we'll leave this now for uh the board members so um any questions or comments board you have on the plans a standing sea metal roof yes where can you explain that yes and that will be over the porch and at this point that is what is hopeful um I think budget May really impact the St standing seam roof but right now we have a small band of St standing standing seam roof coming across the front porch and around the AR uh around the arch at the door and um we also did some board and Banton siding up on top some dental mold to just and some extra freeze boards just to make it not look so brand new new and Builder is what color is that roof be of the standing sea yeah you know we didn't discuss it what color you wanted what is recommended what looks you know we we might um we might do a copper tone an aluminum that's got a copper tone to it would probably go very nicely with the red brick and the blue yeah that was one thing we talked about everything else we didn't talk about the roof sorry where where is the ASAC proposed the ASAC would be along the uh faes and sofits and the trim and coming around the windows yeah I mean you're familiar with Isaac I assume it would be very very similar to almost this picture how they use the ASAC boards in the uh fases trim around the windows trim around the doors though we're not doing um shutters we feel that um the ASAC or something very similar uh like a baral um that can be painted white and doesn't need maintenance is probably the best way to go on this house any other comments or questions yeah I have a question um this is not about the design and I know that you're not in front of zoning right now but I was just confused about the zoning table on your plans um there's a double asteris for the f um which is saying existing non-conforming are you saying that the f are is is already nonconforming you're making it worse is the table no that's a typ of we don't need a variance we need no variance for S the we do need for sidey setback and those are um existing non-conforming yeah and you also need for um height right yes we're about a foot and a half over yeah I was just I was curious about that um with the height and the the design why you know what I mean like what what what cause what causes that well in terms of the you know there's there's a number of houses that are quite a bit higher yeah uh nearby and this house just feels so low and what we're essentially doing is raising the house um need to work on that e I'm so sorry no you know I had my easel in the car and I went to planning board meeting in or zoning board meeting in chadam last week and I took everything out and I was so mad at myself um I just this piece is not that high it's it's only about 8 feet higher than the existing roof and and this roof is going back and it's a much lower pitch and I think it's going to be less much less visible from the street you're this picture you look at it Bird's ey but I think it's it's really going to play about that big uh when you're looking at it at the street in terms of perspective and it really isn't so high the only reason we do need a variant is because of the walk out in the back we're only about 30 feet in the front we're 289 from the uh first floor I 2811 from the first floor and we're just a couple feet off the grade here so you know it's really not that high it's I don't think it'll appear as high as uh un fortunately this drawing P you know portrays because of that another thing that I did forget to mention um Mr Ross had suggested changing the garage door to a um a more Carriage style door the door that the owners have is only a couple years old and we do have some pictures of it um because they really would love not to change it the neighbors we go around we have the two windows it can be painted if we decide to uh either make it white or blue um I mean we wouldn't keep it beige obviously uh but it's only a couple years old and they felt that they really hated to replace it just you know spend the extra $3,000 when I think the budget on this may be a little tight those no they were not they are the picture picture similar is on the front page of this also that particular picture has not been submitted yes okay what about these two oh I'm sorry that whole I didn't take those pictures the owner did okay so those pictures are would [Music] be yeah put it and the rest of the pictures are Neighborhood House pictures uh very similar to what I have given you can I just go back to the height of the proposed pages of numerous photographs give photographs later color phot sure sorry um I'm just a little confused by the height and um I understand what you're saying from the front of from I guess the ground surface to the top of the new uh structure as 20181 but then on the left side of the drawing you have a height of 376 I'm try to understand what that number well this is to the first floor we're a couple feet up and then this number is to the same Ridge to the grade level because it's a garage under yeah I mean I'm not zoning so I don't understand what the what the height represents I mean on the table you're saying that what's allowed is 32 feet um so you're saying you're actually then over five feet above no because the way the zoning uh ordinance uh reads is you take an a average height from every from 10 feet around the whole house and we are allowed um we are 349 and 32 okay is uh required okay so our average height is 329 so we'll be asking for two foot 9 inch variance I don't know if we'll get it they may make us bring it down but at this point we would prefer that just because with this design I feel that the 1212 pitch is the prettiest I think it'll if I have to bring it down um well this will stay 1212 but you see how this starts getting a little flat and the problem is that the house is wide front to back so I really don't want to squish that down anymore because it just doesn't look attractive so it's not necessarily volume interior it's more the exterior expression correct yeah there's not much I mean it looks like there's a lot of volume but as you see the attic there there's not a whole HCK of a lot of attic just because the pitch is so low you you've got you don't have much on the sides so can you tell me what the the ceiling Heights are are they going to be the same on the first and second floor um we have a we're going to have a higher ceiling height on the first floor um we've got 10 foot on the first floor and we'll have 9 foot on the second floor the reason we have 10 foot on the first floor is because we have a couple rooms already that have cathedral ceilings and tray ceilings and our intent is to try to build above them instead of destroy the structure uh my client would like to uh stay in the house during construction um so if we can keep yeah we might need to talk them out we'll move out for Demolition and Framing and then you know we're joking um but uh what we'd like to do is keep as much ceiling and intact and just try to go over a lot of the structure otherwise once you start taking ceilings down um unfortunately then all the sheetrock comes down and then the house gets gutted and it just snowballs and we really don't want to do that because the first floor is done very well the kitchen's new everything you know the floors are great I mean we just want to try to keep the first floor intact thank you any more questions or comments so was submitted to us have stormers on the roof and you should have gotten a resubmittal well you were given 17 copies or 15 copies for re um the well we preferred the Dormers and um and and Mr Ross had said well maybe the Dormers are too much and um I thought the Dormers look great but hey who am I you know uh but that's truly up to the board if the board likes what they see with the Dormers we would love to put the Dormers back because my clients were were very disappointed to take the Dormers out you said there was a reason Ross against them or yeah he just gave me a list hey make this change this change this change and your chance of getting it through the board will be way better so I me I made his changes but you said the attic is not be finished just be no it'll be just straight starts there's there's no uh plan to use the attic he was extremely helpful with all the information he gave so oh yeah no no he was great because he guided us um I hadn't been before this board for almost 10 years so it was very helpful he was he was very helpful I just have one other small question in terms of the railing that are on the back porch and the front porch um it doesn't really say what are those made out of like what are the baners be made out of the um the front would most likely be a uh white wood or a white AAC uh type of thing uh the back we want it a little bit lighter and that might be a RW iron or a wire or it just not quite as heavy with the white okay so the facing the road that'll be all yes and I apologize iron on the back is that what you were proposing um prob most likely aluminum aluminum because the iron rusts the aluminum the anodized aluminum just will the railings be wood and then most likely most likely the only way it wouldn't be is if it was so cost prohibitive but that's the plan you know best laid plans kind of thing any other so you were saying that the S and what would you do if it cost you we would make it the same as the asphalt what's the current roof material asphalt every time I ask somebody jumps in should I give it a minute in comments okay um I think I'd like a little more clarification on some of the components here and one of them is you know the ASAP are are we going with that on the front rails for sure yes okay yes and um the standing seam roof I'd really I'd like you guys to commit to one or the other if it all possible uh go the metal do we have to commit with the color as well or we can do copper or a darker uh dark gray color you know a little bit darker than the than the shingles uh personally I I would like to see the copper I mean it looks very nice on on that piece but I do understand that you have a a black um a dark a very dark uh shingle right yes it's they're Grays and blues but this these are the tones we would like to um to use so unless anyone has a preference you're okay with the darker color or the copper okay um I think that you have anything or I think they pretty much committed so I think the only thing that was mentioned is Dormers um I'd like to comment that I like Simplicity without it I think it gets extremely busy with them um but I'm only one of and I think also because the roof is so low SL it would be really long Dormers longer okay yeah I mean we prefer the Dormers but we didn't have a problem taking them out too you know that the initial design had the DS um anybody else oh actually sorry question since obviously the chimney's going to have to come higher the bricks in terms of matching the rest of the house are you going to source that are they going to be new bricks like how is that going to be we're gonna try to I mean it's a it's a red used brick okay we should be able to find something so similar the the other thing is is that um they're so far apart if the if they're SL slightly different but the color is the same I I think we'll be okay can I add this current chimney has just cement on it there's no brick on it but we'll try to match as close as we can and then the only other comment was the garage door um I certainly understand it looks like you guys will if something happened to that garage door you would certainly take the carriage doors into into consideration um so I'm okay with that c can you just tell me what materials are going to be expressed on the side elevations on your left the existing house has um a white whitish I don't want to say white it's you know a few years old a whitish vinyl sighting and um they would love to be able to continue that um just so it matches the side and the rear it's something that probably would not really be seen from the street because of the green and the the the bushes around the house um but they would prefer to match that vinyl siding instead of having to rip all the siding off there is no sighting underneath the vinyl so it's not like you could take it off and and find wonderful old wood that can be reworked or matched um I would imagine probably in the 80s somebody ripped that all off it was probably rotten and then they just put vinyl siding or in the 90s I would imagine no I would imagine there was probably aluminum siding first and then uh you know in the last 20 years vinyl siding was put up the house now all the trim and everything is vinyl the Sops the and you do know underneath that vinyl there is nothing else we do because we pulled it apart okay I just want to make and they believe there's a picture is that the picture in there or okay this is what's underneath is uh you can see a picture is the underlayment it's not shakes it's uh Shake underlayment there's nothing there okay so so the break doesn't continue around the house no it doesn't there there's another house 184 Cypress that came before you um it's 12 I'm so I'm sorry uh 124 Cyprus that had the brick front and they and they redid the front a bit with a portico and whatnot and you can see that that house and um I can them and this I guess you'll need to put this in is that a third one yep okay um that the sides of the house are vinyl no top one top Edition in the back and they continued with the same sting and that's final very similar maybe even the same contract yeah it's it's virtu it was virtually the same house you got that okay so you're going to just clarification you're going to try to match that vinyl Society exct even though it's whitish yeah I mean you know the books now have about eight different whites you know the gray whites the beige whites the white whites the off whites um will match it as best we can there we should be able to match it can in case you're not able to match well we'll uh likely do a siding and will spray paint the old siding and you know maybe change the color to the to match the front with the siding if if that's allow so to the dark color to darker color Okay anybody want to comment on preference of that I think so maybe what what we should do with that with that particular piece is [Music] um maybe have Barton sign off on that when you decide what it is you're going to do I personally think by doing it dark it will really make that house kind of especially the neighbors you know right now it's very narrow so I personally would like to keep that a little lighter but um yeah we we would definitely consult with him before we do the side the side and the rear sighting then and you can have him sign off on there what I'm hearing you say is you'd like to keep it the way it is but you don't one align distinguish exactly exactly we' like to be able to match it exactly if we can't match it exactly we've got to figure out what we're going to do and maybe uh Mr Ross will be able to give us some insight okay we're more than happy to have him consult on that okay perfect um one last time okay uh so thank you uh right now now uh I will now open the meeting floor to the public do we have anyone in the audience that would like to speak on behalf of this application sure uh I'm actually uh you want to come on now all right my name is Sumit and Gupta I'm actually uh a from door neighbor uh at 101 Cyprus Stree um and uh Mr tagi has has already shared uh the plans with us you know shown us um and uh you know he's my experience with him he's done a wonderful job with his Landscaping he has an eye for detail aesthetically so very pleased with what I've seen uh and I'm fully supportive thank you for sharing that with us anyone else hi you know if you you can come on maybe we could take that down no that's there we go hi there hi I'm Lori Alman on YouTu and uh we live at 103 Cypress Street right across the street from this home as well and uh ankor has also shared the plans with us and it seems like it would be a nice addition um on the street so thank you thank you there we go all right so um do we have a motion to approve but I'd like to make that change that Barton will indeed work with you on the actual sides of the property um any other change requests that okay just use the existing garage door yes I think though that showed on the print no oh well the old print that you're looking at yeah the new one showed it being replaced okay so let's let's put that on there with the current garage door thank you okay is it subject's review with respect to the materials yes of the the SI of the house the material yeah okay material and color to well we're we're not allowed to okay do anything with color but it sounds like yeah certainly you're willing to work with what's best for your neighbors too maybe discussing that too with me they're they're looking at you comment on he'll comment that's fine all right do I hear a second thank you okay Nicole Mrs Canfield oh Crystal why do I keep calling you Nicole okay for a long yes Mr Davis yes Mr Frankle yes Mrs GL yes Mrs Wanga Mr Jenkins yes Mr Salin yes thank you very much congratulations really appreciate we wish you luot it is a real pleasure dealing with you people because the board was a little different 10 years ago it was real pleas we're not better we're just no you're better I was trying to get you to say that I know thank you yeah keep and keep this too this is a really nice color no it's it's one roof but they vary so you have a little yeah you have a little dimension byebye thank you thank you is it attach okay okay okay okay so moving on to new business so um Janine I might need some help on how to you want me to be clear on that again or sure um you just go ahead with this because you've already moved to revise the new business section of the agenda to consider it so now this is the substance of motion okay so would you anybody go ahead all right so I I'm going to make a motion that the St preservation commission recommend to the milour township Township committee that designate pursu to section 65.1 of the municipal land use law the Short Hills Village dist uh Short Hills Village as an historic district is there a second second thank you um are there any is there any discussion on this [Music] motion sorry I'm just confused did we vote on this at the onset okay could you just explain I'm sorry sorry it's confusing quite quite all right um um we discussed this beforehand and it was determined that we should make a motion to revise the agenda uh to consider this motion under new business so the first motion was to revise the agenda to consider this I see under the business and that way anyone you know who's streaming or did help the member of the public here they would know that we were revising the agenda on the spot which is allowed okay um so that motion passed and now the substantive motion has been made um and that's um and just one other question was this on was there notice of this like was this on the um it was not prior notice in other words it was not on the agenda yeah why we move to repend okay and we're making a a recommendation this is just a recommendation right now Comm consider this I see okay do we have anyone in the public sounds good all right so now to vote on yes I don't know what's wrong with me I'm just so we just move right on okay Mrs camfield yes Mr Davis yes Mr Frankle yes Mrs glat yes Mrs Wanga Mr Jenkins yes Mr Salin yes okay um can we the discussion items can we do this before the ex session we okay um I think no so if I can adjourn the meeting and then we go into executive session that's just my not you have to move to um go into executive session before we adjourn well yeah yeah okay so I'd like to make a motion we move into executive session um the purpose of executive session is to discuss pending or anticipated litigation live goes off correct correct okay second thank you I mean coffee have to Mrs Canfield yes Mr Davis yes Mr Frankle yes Mrs glass yes m Mrs Wanga yes Mr Jenkins yes Mr cin yes okay so at this time I