##VIDEO ID:aHNXZKHQNV8## all right okay okay in accordance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 we advised that a notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board town hall and mailing to the officially designated newspapers a list of the meeting dates annually indicating that this meeting would take place at the Town Hall at 7:30 pm on Wednesday September 4th 2024 Cory Diller here Allison Canfield here Michael Cohen here debor NZ here Frank Zandy here swe BJ here David cosbro here Michael Zion here Gaston Halbert here that's all here uh we welcome you back after a planning board break since June 5th um and given such we do have a number of U minutes to approve um from back in the spring so we'll go ahead and go through those we will um go into our business with um the extension Then followed by the application and we'll do the last um as we have applicants and their professionals here with us so I prefer to just swi swap the last two items on our agenda for tonight um that said we'll move forward with the approval of minutes beginning with April 17 2024 um e did you have any corrections or U I did not receive any okay did anybody have any corrections or um edits actually Madam chair I forget and I apologize e if I sent you these in Advance if I did not I did have a couple of quick ones okay um the uh page two uh student Warner drafted a resolution for the board if they were to uh find this element to be not inconsistent with the master plan don't strike that I I strike that my apologies I changed I uh struck my own revisions when I realized that I have no revisions how' I do so far Mr I didn't get any minutes to to review so I don't know if any these were received back in May so yeah we actually I'm sorry they came in they came in early June but we didn't um discuss them at that meeting because it was too close to the meeting and it's been quite a while so um we've yeah thank you so we have meeting minutes of 4:17 we'll Contin that 515 and 65 as well yes Madam chair I'm going to Avail myself of the it's been quite a wild defense because I think I made those changes in Once Upon a Time okay so no proposed changes to the meeting minutes while you have it there would you mind reading those members who were at the meeting I sure I have present uh following board members Canfield con mevas sakandi uh sujatha VJ cosgro Z howbert and Z great thank you I move to approve the minutes of the 17th of April 17th J 2 second thank you all in favor I oppose and assume if you were not in attendance you would abstain uh the meeting minutes of May 15 2024 similar question if you have any uh revisions e first okay for for any okay do anybody else have any comments or edits okay just I think I've said more than you're fine um e do you have the names of those who were Cory biller Michael Cohen Frank sendi San David cosbro Michael Z Gast on help that's all great I move to approve the second second all in favor I I oppose okay and any not present uh and finally the meeting of June 5th 24 same open for any questions comments or edits okay those present include Corey biller Michael Cohen debah Nevis Frank sakandi sujatha shreni Dave Cosgrove Gaston and myself oh e this he I St e e e e for my no Main Street milour New Jersey um I have an undergraduate degree in economics from rur and a master's degree in architecture from New Jersey Institute technology my license is in good standing in New York and New Jersey and I've testified in front of numerous boards including the Milbourne zoning board and the historic commission I actually have never presented in front of the the planning board um but I've also testified numerous other boards in the area great so we're hearing you as an architect tonight yes okay thank you we will accept your thank you testimony resp what I'd like to do is I believe that you had these sent to you electronically but if not I want to hand these out please identify what you're handing this is renderings of uh the front front facing the the driveway and then the rear facing I guess from the street would be the left side the uh northern part of the building um so we will enter these in an exhibit number exhibit A1 be perfect thank you this I'm sorry how many pages um this is one page with two uh uh renderings on one page okay exhibit a one and then fall m it you have thank you Steve what are you pass so this is there was a question um from the planner about how the bre the uh covered carports intersect the windows um so I have a sketches just to show where the roofs intersect the windows okay so this will be exhibit A2 fantastic so um when we were um hired by Al we originally were looking at doing a a typical attached townhouse like you see where they have common walls between the buildings and after studying the property and some of our options we felt that it was a much better plan to take the units and and spread them apart a little bit and um did I not give you enough yeah sorry we might have to go every other okay okay um so what we what we decided to do instead of having units all mushed together we pulled them apart we connect them uh with these carports it's still considered um a multi- uh unit dwelling because they're all attached but the advantage of this is now by having windows and and on the sides of the buildings uh if you've ever been in a typical townhouse just they're pretty dark so by allowing uh penetrations on the sides it really makes the quality of the Interiors of these building much nicer um so also makes it better privacy between the buildings because between the um the dwellings because you don't have common walls of living space so if your neighbor is making noise you don't you don't hear that um the other thing that it did it allowed us to put the parking right next to each of the dwelling units along don't your for it on the second floor you have three bedrooms and two bathrooms and then on the top floor which is the attic level have we're calling them bedrooms but typically people will use one as a home office or or a guest area and then we um on the on the top level we have oops we have two bedrooms and a laundry room and a and and a bathroom that they share um there was a question about how the car ports affect the quality of the light into the spaces and that's the other hand that I gave you I showed how the how the roofs intersect and clear the windows um and it's a very similar situation for the when you have a porch on the house where you have a roof over over a an area that's attached to the building it's not as bright as if there was no roof but it still allows natural light and and ventilation to come through um there was also u a question about the materials what we're doing on the outside and as you can see on the rendering we're going to do a neutral colors we'll do Hardy boards with white ASAC trim um as maintenance free as possible and then we're doing porches along the front of the units to kind of give a sense of community within all these with Within These dwelling units that I imagine that people will be sitting on the front porch and talking to their neighbors and and um you know the kids will probably be roller skating in the driveway and I you know I feel that having a front porch really engages the uh the the the neighborhood feel of the building um and I think uh oh there was a question about adding some kind of wheel stops at the in the parking areas we're going to have little retaining walls or wheel stops just to keep the cars from going off the end there um and the other question was the elevation that is facing Main Street which by the way I want it to look good because it's across the street from my office that would be if you look at A7 you would be looking at the left elevation and we're going to put uh some Landscaping along the building to to soften up this side and then there's going to be um a garden of uh between the the building and the street there's G to be some plantings that I I think Rich will talk about between the street and between the street and the building there will be some some landscaping and so you're not looking just like at a baron um um so it's it's about 34t to the street from the from the building so PL of opportunity to do landscaping and do you have any question I think that's all I have to say about as far as the architecture on on the building let you have some questions thanks have you designed a I guess you call it a town community or what you call it development like such with these the carports attaching no this is the first time I I I thought it was a good solution to give each each dwelling un a little more privacy instead of just mushing all together like you typically see I thought it was a it would be a better place for people to live okay thanks any other architectural questions for this yes um so I'm just looking at what we're going to be seeing as we drive by on Main Street and other than some um Landscaping we're just seeing the side of a building without much variation or interest it looks like on on on this side of the building it well you're looking at it without any materials on it but there's going to be clapboards and trim and just straight I mean there's not going to be any detail or anything like that on on the side elevation from if if um you know we haven't really completely studied options but if the board feels that I we need to dress it up a little bit I'm open to you know to considering that yeah I mean it seems like it's pretty um Bland for having a Main Street facing um side right well maybe we can extend this roof over along and maybe put a window in the garage you know dress it up a little bit just so you don't have as long a piece of of wall if that's if that will uh please the board but there there will be land you know there'll be landscap and we'll put some I looked at the house that was there before which had a lot of detail and charm to it and you know no offense but this is not as Charming as what was there and it's a it's a busy street there's a lot of traffic a lot of people are going to be seeing this and it's you know that's why I have questions about it it's also sandwich sandwich between two you know one massive U office building and then a parking lot one that doesn't mean it can still be you're right we we would consider maybe if that was what the board wanted we would add a window and and dress it up a little bit thank you other questions is there anything else in milb that looks like this I don't think so I think we're doing something you know a little nicer than what you typically see you know there is uh on Main Street there is a a small little townhouse develop development uh closer actually near Rich's office that are are these rles or or condos um they're going to be condos they're these are condos yes they will be okay just just full clarification maybe I misunderstanding so this View and from what I had read is this what faces Main Street or no right this is these go like deeper into the pro right this this view would be from the the front right corner of the parking lot if you so if you're on Main and this is the back of the of this so we have a picture of what it would look like you're going a rendering like this not right that's that would be you were asking about and and I I understand that you want to dress it up a little bit I'm I'm okay with that add a window and would you be open to shutters or something just to so it's not just two or three Windows along at the street level um for that I'd be open that as long as the shutters work some of the windows are pretty close together so I don't know are decorative we we could dress it upate because it is it is a street wall and it is a gateway and entrance to you know our town from also when people are coming fromi they're going to see that end unit mostly exactly yeah so that so they'll see that view it's it's like very rarely will see that flat view you can only see kind of kind of more like the render view that's what I'm referencing on the side and I guess if I understood you so although you thought it would be a home office what is the total number of bedrooms five five that's a lot of bedrooms okay and and we meet all the requirements and there's no U vares required well sorry my apies for but when you say there's no variances required there are variances required respect to the application there's an existing lot area and and lot withd deviation and while it's existing when you knock down uh and rebuild you have a situation as I've always understood it and we have two planners here uh that uh one of which is the boards uh that generally that's considered Kint to Virgin land or vacant land uh and you do need to Le again uh to deviate from a lot withd and a lot area that is undersized with respect to the let me rephrase that we're we're complying with all the bulk requirements for the sizes of lot that's there understood okay we're not asking for any side yard or or F variances from what's already there just so then if the garage is a twocc garage right the purpose of the so are we expecting people have three car it's a one car garage and then on the sides will be an EV spot and a um and a regular spot so each unit has three places to park without being in the driveway okay rich is going to address that a little more detailed with that side side design I mean it almost I'm just concerned that it would be like subdivided into a two each of these would be subdivided into a two family house at some it seems to be enough space for that there's only one kitchen will Mr Keller address the guest parking and yes okay any other questions for the architect St you mentioned trees I would I would highly recommend trees in addition to I I agree I think Rich will address he'll talk about the plantings and the site design question did you um this is this house is on the historic element of the master plan you did you do any research on the um the house itself um no I mean you can address the um the the planning of the of the site but the building that was there was in terrible disrepair it was really Beyond uh being able to to fix so we I I feel that the buildings that we're putting you know the building that we're putting there does have a a very traditional aesthetic with the with the clapboards and uh and you know the typical trim that you would find on you know a cottagey style house e e e e oh out e e is that's [Music] sh St what [Music] sh sh off so sh get St house was so s just just sh this ch e e e e e e e [Music] oh e e feet as of last year which raised the 100e flood and it still does not comeo proper so even with the hypothetical year 2100 flood elevations which is what the DP required us to go to as of last year this this property does not it's not touched by water it has complete dry access if it didn't have dry access we couldn't do multif family um because if you don't have if you can't get an emergency vehicle with some very limited um exclusions if you can't get an emergency vehicle you can't do multi family and so it's one of the first things we've looked at when the township engine near um there's we're nowhere near that um that 100e flood the the 500e flood does come uh to the back of the property property but actually elevation wise it doesn't actually come on our property when we check the actual elevations it's actually in the driveway of what used to be is now Ellie zahari it was actually JB Williams Distributors for many years but it comes to the driveway in tell hard but does not come up the hill if you know if you seen the property you come to the back and there's a steep drop off into the driveway that goes into the loading docks back at lahari and so there's no uh um there's no at no point in any of those storms is the flood waters ever property okay and then my my other question is what criteria are you using to say that there's negligible environmental impact on the property well it's not different than any other traditional development I mean we don't have any rare or endangered species we don't have any Wetlands on the property um it's whatever normal flora and fauna you might see raccoons mostly from from from palombos and actually we have more rats in the area we have which we're trying to get rid of as a neighborhood right now but there's no um there's no um special breeding grounds there's no falcon or Eagle nesting areas there's no there's no special areas of concern for DP so it's just a standard development we're adding we had one dwelling unit we're in Three dwelling units that's nominal sewer flows um there's more than adequate capacity if there wasn't uh that would have been raised by your Township engineer so in this section we have more than adequate SE capacity um I can't imagine um what we would there'd be some temporary disruption during the construction process but no more than you know I'm living on Jefferson right now and I walk down the street every day and there's there's building going on and so it's really no different than uh any other normal construction during that construction process and then it'll just be a developed site just like the rest of them so it's really nothing out of the ordinary and no environmentally sensitive areas that are effective thank you other questions want to continue with Deborah's comment so it would be great though to have an Eis that states everything that you just said Put it on paper and I know you're sworn in but to be able to do even noise not necessarily from what you're going to be creating but what is going to be consistent or continuous for the homes right if you're you're putting homes in between uh a commercial area where you did have a lot of vegetation around and so now that environment is changing and I don't know exactly and I'm pretty sure there no Wetlands on it maybe there are I don't know but the ecology it would be nice to know what ecology we are now going to pay over we're running out a lot of out of we're running out of you know Green Space around here so we're Paving over stuff it would just be nice to know what we're ping over but it's it's an air I I I don't disagree on one level I my my degree was environmental engineering however um I also look at the town has zoned this the CMO Zone has zoned it for multif family housing with certain coverage restrictions and it's covered allowances um and a certain anticipation that you're going to have reduced Green Space um as a result of it so the master plan deems that that's acceptable so I'm not sure if we were to quantify that we're losing uh sites just under 16,000 so you get 12 so you know we're we're losing however many square feet of of natural surface um I'm not sure quantifying that would is that something that would rise to this board's denying an application that's fully conforming with the the master plan and zoning ordinance I mean um because we've already Quantified those numbers in terms of the increase in runoff the increase in in impervious increase in runoff so they're on our our drawings ready so I'm happy to like I'm I'm happy to flesh out any environmental conditions but there's no I work in the area for 30 years there's there is always a background noise from Route 78 um there's I can hear the helicopters where CL I think two two already came down so there's another 29 that will come down a lot of trees so just in terms of noise how much do the trees absorb of the noise what I mean I'm also interested in what do impact study right um most of those Tre there's a reason when we get to my landscape plan there's a reason that out of the 31 trees we're taken down only 15 Replacements are required and we have an exponential replacement so for a 10-inch tree you replace four it's not one to one but most of the trees are in extremely bad shape structurally unsound poor condition or species that are dying or will be dead due to disease so um there's a reason that only 15 are required we're putting back I think 76 new replacement trees and they're not as big or as tall as the trees that are were coming down but again you have an area that's been is designated for a certain amount of allowable coverage um and we're fully compliant with that um in terms of the it's hard to quantify the absorbing qualities of trees generally sound operates in a linear manner um but there is a perception thing with noise where if you can see the source of noise um it's more annoying I people who live up on Roland um they don't ever hear the traffic noise from 24 because it's it's ambient um I will say that I don't think that um having four families live along a driveway is going to add significant amount of noise to the neighborhood um you know you'll get some kids playing in the afternoon I hope um but that's not a bad thing and you'll have they'll have to deal with some truck noises when trucks back into ellar tari Loading Docks but again that's an existing condition it's not something that's owner and it's not something that that uh um would negate the the inclusion of this use from the master plan yeah I think I was thinking more about the absorption of sound from 78 rather than the sound of kids well we are doing 76 trees and they will grow and we've selected trees that are specifically designed to grow in those areas with those retaining walls in those spaces and they will get larger um regardless I mean there was a horrific accident 10 years ago on on Route 78 we heard of my office um you know you're you're going to get some some noise but I don't think it's something that I I've never been asked to quantify I don't know like we would do Sound Engineering tests I don't know how you would how you would determine all that questions okay um just going to repeat for my myself the four submission waivers are for the Eis architectural elevations the telephone line testimony which we heard about and the construction detail on the the EV charging sure so why don't we hold on the E and go for the the lad three electric Charing can I just ask one question what was the design consideration for having an outside versus in the inside garage um in general um well these are these are building M so what we're asking for is is a w on the detail because normally we're freestanding Pok so um but generally um these are allowed to charge inside I have a lot of clients who are a little worried that that Tesla might catch fire as part of the charging process and then at least you're not in the building you still have a carbon roof you but it but it's a it's a much more controllable area and more easily to fight so we have certain people um actually certain fire departments actually are pushing back on any internal charging and even a multif family where you out 100% development 250 units they're not they don't want the charging in inside because a a Tesla fire takes something like 40,000 gallons of water to put out or a standard car fire takes about 600 to a thousand so there's a big difference so we think it's better to have it outside what's nice about having it wall mounted they're attractive units no one will ever see them but is that it's then there's not a common electric there's not an app to charge for the electric it go it gets hardwired right in um the quarter is right there they can pull the car in charge it so it just seemed like a a better option and certainly uh I think it to lay people's fears no I mean that all all makes sense I just you my initial thought was hey if you have it inside you avoid the likelihood that people just park two cars on the outside and just use the garage for storage and so it might minimize that could happen no matter what but I what we have been finding is garage use is actually up with all of the car thefts that have been happening in the last couple years garage use is actually on the increase so we hope that they'll use at least one space um and and that'll be allow them the maneuverability for that access to the charging okay so let's um let's take the E question second and let's start with the those three ladder uh requests the materials in color in the architectural elevation the telephone line and the EV charging equipment uh description um I will move to approve like accepting the granting the waivers as requested a second second second thanks that was Frank and this is for everything except cor the other three Cory vill yes Alison campon yes Michael Cohen yes de NIS yes Frank zy yes VJ yes David cosbro yes G on help yes that's all yes okay I want to tackle the do I was just I don't could be handled either way I was just wondering out loud now uh whether uh the board is more comfortable hearing further testimony as Mr Keller explained he's probably going to touch even more on landscaping and other issues and then the board can always determine whether or not the environmental impact statement the board feels it's necessary to render a decision or if not if the board feels it's would be helpful for the professionals to have as condition of approval or if not uh then it's a waiver in its entirety um or board can vote right now sure would you feel more comfortable you know I know a few of you expressed some concerns waiting and hearing the application and then making the determination heard more from the applic yeah because i' like to hear some more design you know how like when I ask about the design questions gotta so so why don't we hold off and handle the E laav request as we're moving towards in essence it's granted to allow you to continue to testify and present the application it's uh and in any w a request the board always retains the ability to subsequently ask for the item should they need it in the context of brending decision or as a condition of approval so if I understand correctly you're you're allowed to proceed thank you we can ask questions or well I think testim more testimony okay so um I'm going to uh I'm going to use um the drawings that you have before you I'll come to two color ones when I get to the two color ones I'll I'll indicate U but the drawings otherwise uh for the first few are exactly what's part of your submission package and that's uh my eyes are not good enough last revised uh 628 2024 and it's a I'm sorry how many sheet set uh the sheet set is 11 sheets I won't go through all of them but they're 11 sheet set and they all have the same uh original date 11:30 2023 um and they are uh revised through 628 2022 thank you thank you so um I admonished my staff a little today the because the cover sheet is the ugliest cover sheet my office has ever prepared I'm going to start with sheet number two because it has all the sing information in it it's not as offensive to me um so the property it's always weird when you know a planner and engineer I two hats and you don't want to have me come up twice so now we're getting to the site stuff and you've already heard about how're how we're fitting it out but the the site itself is a uh 15915 square foot 75t by roughly 215t deep approximately rectangular property it's on the east side of Main Street it's about 77 feet south of the intersection of bleer street right across with M Familia um and then it is about 500 ft to the north from the from the bridge that goes over 78 the um the property is uh located wholly within the CMO commercial medical office District um Main Street itself is designated as County Route 577 um as Miss Callahan said at least that's what Google says um however it is actually fully under the control uh and jurisdiction of the Township from murn so while plan is not required we don't have to use County details we always do make an application to the county anyways for either of them to decide whether they have jurisdiction or not jurisdiction so we will make that application regardless the um the site is uh is approximate to uh I would point out my office is in the next block just before columbos um the number 70 bus does come by one of my employees took that for 20 some years um so it is approximate to um uh stops on both directions for the number 70 bus and we're located about just over 2,000 220 ft south of Taylor Park so 37 Acres 37 miles um up the street to Taylor Park and then obviously brings the start of the downtown central business district the um the site is as was indicated early is not located within 100-year flood plane either um as as was shown on our flood study from 1977 or um the most recent um DP FEMA mapping and including the three-foot bump in elevation at the DP um required last year to more closely model estimated 2100 a year flooding so we are um including that elevation bump we are not located in the in the special flood Hazard area Ry River and the project does not require any D approvals with regard to the character of the neighborhood um it is an Eclectic mix of um there are offices um and Commercial uses on either side of us there's on either side of our property our twostory office buildings the uh the one on the corner actually will be coming uh soon with the old Zer Insurance a brick office building set about 15 feet off the street um that is going to be converted into um a medical office and attorney and be coming before this for site soon um next to us to the South another office building Mountain sits at the back of the property large parking on front and row trees that will not be on that property will not be touched as part of this application and then behind us in the area where the uh the 500 gear flooding does come up to I'm sorry but are we getting the recording as well I know we have a phographer but or maybe you could I don't I think you might be able to take the mic with you I can do that thank you the um I lost my laser otherwise I would just use the laser I probably would blind myself um the uh so behind us are industrial uses the uh ell Tahari site Office Buildings continue up the montauri school across the street are on number this is an R8 Zone and there are both multif family apartment buildings as well as single family dwellings there a commercial space the architect's office is across the street um this building right in here um a bar beauty shop uh Mia Familia who actually um they've sold and they're only going to be there for two more weeks although they say nothing will change but you should go there because they're great um they fed my me and my office for the last 25 years um and then obviously beyond that is the is the uh uh one and two family um Zone that's the r s zone so it's an Eclectic neighborhood um that we're in the middle of the property itself if I go to the uh sheet number two which is the topographic survey um this is obviously before the demo again our bill our drawings were first dated on our first submissions back in November so before the house was demoed um the uh uh the site itself is relatively flat grad to the back and slightly to the Northwest um and then it drops off at the very back of the property it drops off into the driveway for the LA Tahari site the there are no easements that affect the property there are no encroachments on the property um the we look at the demo plan um essentially um we we demolished um well this has actually the demo plan showing the demolition of the buildings they were up it also shows the entirety of 31 trees that are coming down um two of which were already removed either they were dead or dying uh they would removed when we did the demo on the house with the permission of the Forester um that that's the extent of the existing property as uh as indicated back on to our our first drawing we are uh fully compliant with the uh all the bulk requirements except for two one is the um the lot uh lot area where 30 30,000 feet is required the old commercial Zone where at 15914 as indicated we the non-conforming condition and that is to the lot width where we are roughly half of the 750 ft required again we're not relying on the existing house for any for any uh existing grandfathering but we do have a grandfathering section of the ordinance which basically says that um this is still a developable lot it's just obviously a smaller lot when you apply the building when you apply the allowable lot coverage it gets uh commensurately smaller so we're we fuling compliant with with all of the new parameters relating to the bu requirements if we then look at the first sheet I'm going to I'm going to introduce as a I guess this is A3 I believe that's a colorized R version of sheet sheet number five colorized version of the site plan so this is where we get into the protected development um the uh Improvement and this has indicated um previously we're looking at connecting uh developing four connected uh dwelling units along the uh Northerly side of the property bias towards the Northerly side of the property meeting the minimum set 12T setback um on the south side or the bottom of the drawing we biased an 18t wide driveway uh that uh that comes in and it expands up to 23t wherever we've got a the 90 Dee backup from the from the existing garages or the pin spaces when it comes across the frontage it throttles down at 18 it opens back up so it's a variable with driveway but we are we do have 23 ft on the driveway at all locations where we have 90 degree backup parking onto that onto that area so I think that's a section we do not need a waiver from because while our driveway width is variable which is we've just decided to do it across each one if you have a 18ft wide driveway that comes in and you expand when you get a parking lot that would that would be typical in this case we've just done it where we wherever we've got back out 90° we provide for 23t aisle with 23t wide aisle the um as indicated each dwelling uh unit is just under 2,000 square F feet uh and includes a onecar garage and then immediately next to that uh one open and one under that building roof link there are two spaces one of which is the back one is an Eevee with an Eevee charger on the wall e e another window at the front of that that massage so there's a number of things we can certainly e for for e e e for e he St what for what all sh you think that's G to absorb yeah the other thing we actually are doing is that we've got um we've got the water that kind of runs along so the other green infrastructure is the um is the per VAV uh walkway runs down there and and that's right at the right at the edge of a lawn area so you're getting some cleaning with the lawn and you're getting the groundwater infiltration there is a burn that keeps that water from going onto the neighbor's property so basically uh it'll get absorbed into that into that permeable pavement and uh they make permeable pavement much better than they used to um it actually they do make some of it where you can hold a piece of pavement three pavement you can pour water in goes right through it um we're not necessarily using something that um that uh um water um allowable because those tend to be really ugly um but um we are using a system that allows for uh excellent penetration of water through that so we'll get all that water that will hit that we'll get down into that perforated pipe so we're using two sections of of passive non-structural green um things devices question and you might have mentioned it how say the ringard rainard is only about it's it's about a foot and a half um at it at its deepest on the one section so you come down each one of these the Contour so you start with one you come down another Contour so there's about a it's actually about a foot and a half uh deep yeah we don't want I didn't want it to make it look like a basin I wanted to make it look um as though it's just a gentle lawn that kind of that that that melds into a curbal linear wall I thought that was a more attractive solution and again and then allows us on top of that wall we have about a five to six foot area where we can put Plants which will both grow up along that facade and then they'll also go down over that retaining wall down towards the towards the the bottom so you are going to plant plants there yeah okay we're not planting in the Basin and I could if if the board really felt strongly we can pick some perennials that are water tolerant get something along there I actually think that the rolling lawn into a really attractive stone wall is with the plants on top of it um I've seen it on root toe 202 in mors Township for 30 years and I've always thought it's beautiful and I finally got a chance to use that here so I think can be attractive and like I said we have not had good luck with um plant material um we've designed beautiful the only the only one I think we've had really good luck on in terms of a bio retention Basin was for the uh The Enclave the old choc cleaner site um can't see it but that's a really that's a really wellone system but it's it's a much St e for e for e e e e e e you e e I e I think e e e for e for a full a full profile of the storm uh section the stor system in its entirety um and then if we go to that is sheet seven You Go sheet eight this is our landscape plan and this is where you can see um the disposition from the plants we have um we have a a two honey locusts that sit on either side so they frame those are those are deciduous trees um that are somewhat uh they're high branch and they're somewhat uh but they'll they'll grow into a full grown tree 20 to 30 feet they're on either side of the Basin framing the The View towards that that one side facade um along in front of that just above the wall we have a series of uh of shrubs and bushes that are intended to both grow up along there as well as grow down to the property to the north we've got a series of Hedges as well as um evergreen trees um a number of uh the uh I think Arbor vites are there's two different species of arbores and some um and also there were some 20 25 of the Spartan junipers those are all planted seven to eight feet of planting so we're getting good planting along that buffer in the back we've got trees and we've selected trees that will grow well in and around that retaining wall and not interfere with the structure of the retaining wall so we provide we've tried tried to provide a balance of of planting materials throughout I think indicated um go to my notes because I'm way off my notes um so 31 trees are being removed uh 15 Replacements are required because many of them are either undersized or um they're Exempted by their species or they're already dead 15 Replacements are required we're providing for 76 trees uh in total to be provided um I think a total of something like uh 140 um plants Al together but the ones that matter really the the taller 7 to8 foot planted trees that uh will be on the backside there's an existing row of uh I don't think it might be h e you e e e for night sky compliance they're um they Ser at night sky or dark dark sky dark sky so the um however um when we did our analysis um the Milburn standards are very tough I don't know a single site plan that has yet been able to make the uh the um the maximum average one foot candle um it's the paper mill or any of the site plans I've done in the last five years it's a very strict standard so our we are compliant with the minimum uh lighting we're compliant with the LAX the maximum amount of uh individual foot candles and Lighting on the site we're fully compliant however on the uh average along the sidewalk we are I apologize because these numbers are shown but they're very faint on sheet n um but there's no spill over of any light onto the joining property but the average in that walk area is at 1.3 foot candles where one is permitted I would say um the difference 1.3 and 1.0 is imperceptible um it is limited to that pedestrian walkway which is also framed by a fair amount of landscaping which will keep that light further contained uh it does it does provide it for a modum of additional safety although um not much uh and again it's addition to that two-story non-residential building so there's no negative impact on the neighbors um what what is what what we strive for in my company is really Chown for in these maximum men especially the average men that's uniformity that the more uniform a lighting plan is that means you don't go from bright spots to dark spots to bright spots which is difficult for the eye so you can have a something that's um meets all your requirements but the uniformity is is not as low and therefore it becomes much more um you feel much more glare um basically that uh average to minimum um a ratio of five is acceptable anything below Five Below three is great we're actually at 2.0 uh 2.0 and 2.6 so we're very uniform so it's low lighting it's uniform we just go over the maximum average on the walkway which if you're going to do that anywhere I think that's probably the place to do it everywhere else we're fully compliant with the ordinance so we do need a way a design waiver from that section so altogether we think we need uh design waiver for um the access uh un loading to the parking spaces um that is the uh that is a section that's uh required and it's interesting if you parti the language um DRZ 56.2 the standard requires that all individual spaces be served by interior driveways designed for vehicular access without the need for moving any vehicle well the driveways actually are fully free flowing um where you need to move a Vehicles when you P into the tandem spaces so whether that's considered part of the driveway or not is a semantic issue but we're going to say we need a waiver from that um I will say that uh it is not um uncommon residential site Improvement standards um does allow for the parking of a vehicle right outside a garage and so either even though you have to move a car to get the car out of the garage it's permitted under rsis we have actually slightly better condition it's free flow out of the garage but we do have a condition where um if you're car that's charging and another car is parking they will have to move that car to let you out um it's not atypical to what happens in residential development all around um and especially in front of driveways we think it's actually a better condition obviously we couldn't park in front the driveway but we think it's better condition and you know the standard is uh it's not a it's not a variance we don't need to show positive and negative criteria we need to show that just impracticable to meet the standard uh in this particular case and uh and we think that this is really a better planning alternative and tandem spaces have become ubiquitous in multif family housing we haven't done a multif family housing project in a while that didn't have internal parking spaces where um 20% of them are tandem spaces so it's not uncommon for someone to get two spaces three spaces in or two spaces in a unit uh that's interior parking where to in Le hand we just we're just working on a 100 unit complex for garden homes and Springfield and about 15% of those are tandem spaces so one in front of the other and they have to move one to let the other one out so it's it's become somewhat common in multif family I don't think we did that on the the harth the old uh um the Wells Fargo Building I think don't think we have any tandem there but it's become rather common in a lot of the multif family housing projects just for clarification would I be correct that this would be 33% as opposed to 15 or 20% tandent spaces yeah every third yeah yeah yeah but again in terms of the number it's not it's not atypical and and it's not a prescribed amount by the way it's it's up to each time we do a Redevelopment plan um they set a number and it's up to the town and so we have had higher numbers we've had lower numbers but tandem spaces are not uncommon um Madam chair the the you said those were the two waivers and you did not need the driveway with waiver yeah in my in my um opinion the standard is that um a minimum driveway with of 23 ft is required when providing access to a perpendicular space um and in this case our proposed driveway is between 18 and 23 however at each point where we have a car that is parked 90 degrees we have the full 23 ft so I don't think we need I think the driveway varies it's 18 ft where there's no parking or where there is parking it expands to 23 so I don't think we need a waiver from that section I do have a question though when you can they it doesn't give you 23 is that correct no it does it does because I because the the cars are fully parked um beyond the level of the garage so I get I get two cars between the between the front face of the between the front face of the garage and the back of the parking I can fit two cars fully in there so that the second car the car that's on the outside we still have a full 23 ft back is that take in consideration this is a dead in I make a wrong turn I drive in can one of a one of um one of the suggestions from the township engineer was that we put aign private driveway um and uh it is true we we do allow for turnout of at the back of these garages we do not provide for any uh there's no call toap at the end um it's not atypical to my driveway at my office where if you pull in get to that you have to turn around and it's tight but you can turn around you can turn a car around 23 feet which just tight um but if but the anticipation is that you know if we if we post that as was suggested by the engineer private driveway we will not be getting people who mistakenly drive down if they have to certainly if any one of these is not occupied they'll be able to turn around very easily if all of the tandem spaces are occupied you can still turn a car down 23 ft it's just a you know Sixpoint turn but again we actually did not provide for any um guas parking on the site uh we're in a section of the Town um near my office where there is uh readily available parking on the street the requirements are 2our parking from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. so after that time it's a um it's also a b to 25 M Speed them which I think is funny but um it's uh there's plenty of parking on the street for for guests or visitors and that's the same thing I have a two family um right next to my office that there's not enough parking in the back for guests to park so when when they have guests over they uh park on the street if they're going to stay overnight they have to call on the car to the police trucks garbage garbage um would uh we we did allow for underneath each of these soups there's a space for storage of garbage and recycling and that would have to be uh taken out to the street it's private hauling um then they could um essentially come back and forth garbage men come down there is adequate there's adequate parking area so there certainly adequate area for a garbage truck refu truck to move over um the same with we find that right across the streets and the other departments the Amazon trucks generally do not turn into driveways you can put a you can put a you can put a giant um loading space in the back of this property you'll never get an Amazon guy to pull in there at all he's going to par right on the street and walk these packages in uh same with FedEx Ms so again um there's adequate area on the street for that to happen on a daily basis as it happens now with all the businesses and Residences that already exist my my tennis nextor and two family they must get you know three three deliveries a day one from each of the delivery services some times Amazon twice with packages being thrown on the doorstep they pull up outside they'll tend to do four or five apartments at once or go across the eight apart eight uh four unit apartment across the street from me an eight unit just to the South they tend to basically hit them all one spot I think that's what will happen here yeah um I'm just looking at um Mr C's comments and he says um five bedroom dwellings each dwelling is required to provide three parking spaces for our highest standard so is having people guest park on the street considered providing three parking spaces we're providing for uh two candle spaces and one garage space we're providing for three actually because we're provide technically because we're providing um uh charging stations EV charging stations we actually get to reduce our requirement by one so technically we're only required to have 11 spaces and we actually provide 12 than I am I correct also with respect to the parket calculations that the bedroom parking requirements parking requirements by number of bedrooms I'm sorry not number units excuse me uh does that consider guest parking within the context of that number or is it seven rsis does consider that a certain amount of that space will be dedicated ated for guests and it's no different here I mean it's entirely possible that they could have three cars more off on the KN there'll be two cars which does allow for a guest space to take that so if I've got my I'm charging at the EV station I have a full area for someone to park behind me if I have guests coming over I can certainly say I'll be parked in my garage you can pull them right behind my car but obviously if that's not available um but rsis you know they're they're empirically base so there is there is the intention that's a certain amount of of spaces required are going to be for guests and and the number of spaces required goes up on bedroom counts so because we're because we're a five bedroom could be a five bedroom that's why we require three not 2.6 or 2.1 or 1.8 or any of the rsis multiplier so that that is factored in already and as indicated um there are um I have I have a I don't have a five bedroom but I have a three bedroom um um to family and um those people have never had they've had four kids come to the school system they've never had more than two cars um so my suspicion is again most of the times you're going to have car in the driveway part the charging station which would leave one for guest but if that's not available then you would tell your guest to just park along the street you're good until um midnight I think without having to call it into the place and if I may at some point relatively soon uh I suspect you're going to switch over put your planning hat on uh the the the um to the extent one comes off and and uh you've already talked about potential need or not for certain variances and waivers so I just want to make sure we're keeping score at the appropriate time I want to lose sight of that so the board is clear as to what uh belief you're seeking and they're voting on I I think we need the W I think we need waivers from two sections of the ordinance um if the board disagreed we could say it's three I think that we clearly provide enough backup area um for those cars so I think we need two waivers and again the waivers again they're not um they're not like variances with positive and negative criteria advancing the purpos of the land use act all that sort of good stuff um there's a more relaxed standard and the standard is really is it impracticable to to to meet that ordinance um and in some way is um almost like a C2 variance is there a benefit to not providing them so clearly we think that um the impact is minimal it doesn't it's those granting of those design waivers does not compromise the intent of the master plan or the the type of use on this project property we are asking for for ratification of the two existing non-conforming conditions that being lot width and lot area so the two variances you're asking for a lot width and lot area correct correct existing nonconforming conditions being the lot area existing is 15914 Ft 30,000 ft is the minimum required correct and the magnitude of lot width variance that you're asking for which is a C1 Andor C2 uh is 74.7 Ft versus 150 ft minimum lot width required correct okay clearly that would be a C2 and you're stimulating that you're I'm sorry so that was a c both C1 sorry say C exist uh uh the the um and you are going to comply with respect to the rear retaining wall height no more than six feet absolutely right y so then there are as and we have our planner right would you incur that those are the two variances that I I think I think it's beneficial you know Mr Keller has made Illusions to the nonconforming LW and structur section I think it's just important for the benefit of the board to here it is section 6098 uh subsection B which states when the owner can utilize the lot for the uses permitted and comply with all Zone requirements other than arean Frontage he may utilize the lot without obtaining a variance and by front area is area by Frontage you you can sh that to me lot width the the lot width I would say is is really standard okay and and uh as far as the design waivers the light average light intensity is so 1.3 foot candles versus one foot candle maximum correct and the tandem parking versus interior driveways without the need to move Vehicles correct around or is the other waiver and you're saying the driveway width is not required in Europe and I understood your interpretation that where where it is a 90 degree perpendicular uh did teach us that in law school did they they 90 degree perpendicular uh uh uh entry it is at least 23 feet correct yes and maybe if I with chair's permission I can put grandma on the spot one more time and ask him Andor engineer if they concur with that I concur with Mr Hill's assessments do clarifications okay so then uh two waivers two variances correct Mr ver to the lighting the lighting that's represented on here seems not precise because there's lighting above the garage but no white posts indicated that may be the these architects want to get in way of their building do let me let me I haven't seen oh that is that is correct they're not shown on the uh on the architecture but they are clearly on my side are the light posts going to replace the lights over the garage or does your lighting account for both the posts and the lighting of the garage um you know I don't know whether the building code requires those lights those task lights to be I know they require lights over the doors not sure if they're required requ them as long as you have something that's switch outside okay so I think that the tall fixtures would do the job of those whether there would have to be a small light on the side of the garage to meet code there could be a small incandescent bulb I make incandescent bulbs anymore but there might be a small bulb on the side of the garage that's required by code but we would not normally count that in our in our in our uh lighting standards but also the area where we were over was on the back not not on the S I think I've I think other than kind of reiterating um those two variances for the existing non-conforming conditions those will clearly be C1 variance where the hardship is created by the existing size of the lot shape of the lot configuration of the lot it's an ex in lot we can't change it we can't acquire property from either side owner um without demolishing a building so there's Ser clearly um a C1 hardship that's related to the size and shape of the existing property um and as was indicated um by Graham and I and I appreciate it because I've tried to memorize brother ordinance but he keeps changing it all the time um um the uh the actually the grandfathering section says I don't need AAR for that section I believe that's what you just said is yeah so I do not I technically do not need the see1 variance I don't mind I never mind asking a board to confer that it's an existing condition and Grant the variant just because it seems like Good Housekeeping but actually according to your ordinance which I couldn't remember the specifics of I do not need a VAR for those board members yeah just I just want a couple of things is a want to make sure we've covered all our reports uh and and uh and then I also have a followup question but certainly we have uh a no concern September 2nd report uh from uh our police department and we have a Fire Marshals report August 23rd which I don't I always start to say the word I'll assume and then I stop myself and say I won't assume so uh is the applicant going to stipulate to the conditions and there's one recommendation uh made by the fire marshall on the August 23rd uh report Mr Warner you heard this you're talking about the conditions one through four conditions one through four and there's a recommendation at the top with respect to well I should say a strong urge uh the installation of residential fire sprinklers throughout all single multi family gos that way would not be providing our Marshalls M of August 23rd that's correct uh and I mean I don't want to steal the Thunder from our engineer or planner so I guess they it would be better for them to say whether or not everything's been covered but I'm certainly going to assume uh everything's stipulated to in their reports unless I'm told otherwise I and that's all assuming it's an approval um I don't condition denials I think I think we've uh conf We've either provided the testimony requested for uh anything that needs to be provided as a backup in Miss Callahan's U memorandum of September 3rd we would uh have no problem complying with that and I think we've answered um most of Graham's questions through topology um I don't want to go item by item but I think Gramma is there anything that I needed to address that uh I may have missed in your looking at your complete no I I was following along thank number four revise the Landscaping plan um that would the so we have under Section F would be our recommended conditions of the approval to a fix and that includes correcting this replacement plan okay that's we're okay with that you're gonna apply comply with all the conditions set forth on page eight of planner report yeah one through five with the sub parts yeah item number four um Revis the landscap part of coordinated screening regimen with application next door um we've actually been in but we took down some of their trees that were dead and dying when we so there's been a good relationship between uh Mr Woo and the new owners um of the property next door so we'll continue to do that um and so we'll we can we can certainly revise the landscape plan um I think e e e e e I for e main whether and it may be that all the roofs are in are are part of one common Homeowner Association that hasn't been determined that specificity has been determined but I don't think it matters because typology wise it's one building and it meets the definition of multif family housing because there's more than three units that are attached you know with independent um um families or or habitants right and so this continues to be one block and lot and our tax maps corre there's going to be one owner of the property and then how that is you know managed Condo Association or what not is serve up to the owner yeah so it'll it'll it'll pass obviously yeah it'll pass into a condo association as well as four individual owners and four members of the condo association and um you couldn't turn these first of all you couldn't physically turn them into a two family even though there a number of bedrooms which we think demographically seems to be used as an office and a walk-in closet Etc but there are could be five but the um the um regardless of that you couldn't divide that into a two family and you couldn't you couldn't break that up and create lot lines because obviously we'd have to come back to this board um actually come back to the board of adjustment um to create single family dwellings and you your list of variances would keep Mr Warner writing for hours because you you just have so many Varian you would never get an approval to divide that into four Lots so the common ownership is really what's best for the neighborhood Ure it's proper maintenance of the entire complex maintenance of the of the uh the Basin maintenance of the driveway and and that would be almost impossible to change and certainly you couldn't create two families in and that common ownership was is a condition of approval that the applicants STI to for purposes of among other things ensuring proper maintenance right of the rain Garden Etc right well I don't know legally that's really not again my area of expertise but legally you you would have four individual homeowners that were members of a condo association so you will will not have one ownership you'll have it's not like a Cooperative where where you own a share of Corporation but I'm I'm straying far from my area of expertise I guess property T so is that something that these four people pay individually or is that something that they get four bills any condo gets four bills so any place you have a condo um they get four bills yeah so i' just like ask a question again I wouldn't be doing my job with um again I'll ask if you knew that this property had been on the element of the master plan since 1991 and identified as a Historic Landmark since 199 I I am aware of it I think one of the few people that was aware that we had that inventory the old Master PL so I think a lot of people forgot about that and certainly not in a historic Zone unfortunately um and there was nothing in place to stop um the owner from demolishing the structure um and there was there was an assessment as to whether that could be um renovated and you know it could be a difference of opinion as to whether um the architect has provided testimony that it was in such poor state of disrepair such a state of disrepair that it could not be salvaged or incorporated into the design unfortunately not being in in an historic district or not being any kind of Historic Landmark um the applicant had the ability to demo and they did so I I understand and I'm always sorry when we lose an historic home um I didn't demo it but I am part of the project but I am aware of that but I was not involved in that level of decision making I will say there are times when there was an one of the oldest houses in town used to be across from my office um it was a small little one family house and uh when we invited the HPC over back 30 years ago to look at it they said this was an tenement when it was built um and it's falling apart there there were dir there was actually a woman living on dirt floors twoin thick walls with horse hair and newspaper insulation and so and it had some nice detail on the outside and it was certainly old but um you know there's a point at which they become a great part of the history of the town but they're no longer addited to the to the land to the to the streets Gap and I think that that old house was attractive I looked at it the whole time when I walked by it it's unfortunate it couldn't be saved in the estimate of the arcitect in the uh the applicant um but I also didn't I don't uh similar to um Department of interior standards I didn't think that we necessarily it would be appropriate for us to mimic that house in any way because it's not that house it's not from 1870 so I think a traditional style was chosen as being integrative into the neighborhood um and contextual but it certainly doesn't mimic that it doesn't provide some of the details and it's and it's not a we don't have a front-facing building we have a we have a side facing building which is common for this typology which is a typology that's permitting in the zone thank you you madam um I feel like it's my duty I wasn't really given an opportunity to do a report for this board but it's allowed um I took the last two days to try to gather as much information that I could about this proping and I'd like to share it if the property that was demolished or the property is the lot and block so remember that that's where the conclusion is so the house verus exactly so so um I'll leave that up to the board whether or not they want to hear a full report because I think it it does um say a lot as far as um you know the the neighborhood but still there the design of this particular structure it again it could I think it could influence uh other board members as we move forward um with little changes that we'd like to sure when members of the board would like to hear Miss celd I promise it'll take and if I may add on that frankly and but two things real quick I Pro promise um to the extent it's being considered by you as a board member rendering a determination on this application I think it's appropriate if not advisable that you do share it both with the board but also with the applicant so the applicant has members of the public so they have an opportunity to hear it and address it as well uh because with any personal knowledge of any board member on any application that's a good thing as long as you share it as opposed to keep it in your head and render a decision based on it without sharing it because then it doesn't give everybody the opportunity to do process to address it um and with that said I'm going to triangulate the applicants Council and say you have no objection to our board member sharing that information correct I'm going to speak with my client you can do that okay but you're talking about verbally now verbally right now yeah not not coming back for a report later giving you an opportunity as the planner to address I there is no objection I had a feeling there might not be thank you okay just um just so you know this is the information that I gathered um I prefer to go to my whole board and any input that they have have uh so to let you know that um as of February of this year there was a new uh demo um ordinance that states that this would not be allowed uh to happen again so if anyone like a copy of that I'm more than happy to give that to you so thank you um I'm sorry just for the record that ordinance though was adopted in February uh February of this year right so this appli was submitted prior to February this year correct yeah November and December so under the time of application will dbar case Etc uh the applicant is not bound by this ordinance but the information is of relevant for the board to consider right um so just so the board is aware that um it is on the element of the master plan it has been on there since 1991 and it uh has been on the list of historic buildings since 198 um so there are several houses on Main Street so we would it's not just commercial buildings so we have um 307 38 253 2115 and of course we have St Stevens so all of these are on Main Street also if you have some time I really would like you to take a look at the Milburn book uh that first and foremost is one of the oldest streets in town and had some of the most the oldest structures also whether they were storefronts or houses so we're talking about a period between 1800 and 1830 where this house fell it was listed as 1975 that's not correct from what I could um tell and again not an official report has been written on that property so um again I just wanted to make everyone else aware as we move forward the character of this house and certainly if you'd like a picture of what it look like uh prior to I I can get that for you too I will have to say that uh since I really don't have any Real historic jurisdiction over this property um I would like to invite the applicants to take under advisory that again we're still talking about a very historic area and that's how we start to lose a district or a landmark still historic buildings and that that Main Street is even more historic than our own Milburn Avenue as far as the age of the structures that are still existing so I pulled up an old map and and I am not an environmentalist but then um maybe this is a question that can be answered but the Phoenix paper mill Playhouse set directly behind this structure so again runoff and all that I think we should be aware it it basically comes down I can show you a map if it runs Taylor and then into the back of you know this this lot so um I wanted to make you aware of that and if you would like a copy of this I'm more than happy to give that to you too this map is a 1859 map Milburn so um I really would like us take in consideration some of it was brought up was uh you know Deborah and um yourself um Madam chair that you know adding a few elements as it's facing the road um maybe a little more historic elements from a lighting standpoint maybe gas lighting maybe that's the way to go or if there are lamps in the area Street lamps or historic lamps um shutters one other thing I'd like to add is you know if if you were standing in front of the historic commission we would ask you know divided light for the the windows because that's what you would have seen and if you look at a picture of the structure that was there we're not asking true divided light I know that's a whole different piece but what we'd like to do is try to preserve what's there but also if we can mimic how we see that structure rure um you know I'd like to see that or at least ask if we could see that happening so if anybody has any questions for me I'm more than happy to to answer them but I was limited on the amount of time um I was just aware myself I don't have it memorized and um one of a board member asked me if this was in well on the element of the master plan so I immediately researched it so I I appreciate your time I wish I had more of a report to hand you but I do have copies of anything that you would like to see just for the record if and when any copies are shared with any board member prior to making any determination those copies will be marked as board exhibits or and they will be shared with the applicant the applicant's professionals first I'd like to say I I'm actually a big fan of the work that Miss camfield does on the HBC I was on I I attended Society meetings for a couple years um I welcome the tools that will help me to guide my clients to say you can't tear that down unfortunately this one is gone um however I talked briefly to um my client and clearly in a non-binding but we'd be happy to to have the architect um meet with you individually and talk about ways that we can um you know dividing part different mullon patterns divided light that's that's certainly easy um we talked about possibly deepening that roof overhang having some of that structure have some appearance there are ways that we can I think find common ground and although um I guess technically it's non-binding and we'd like like to I'd like to hopefully we go to a vot tonight but my client and Architects have indicated and I'd be happy to join too that we'd be more than happy to sit down with either M Canfield or a group from HBC and discuss ways that we can bring some of that detail into this project so I think it only makes it a better project I mean we're we're conscious of that history I'm not sure if the you know we've chosen a lantern that is uh a that is um a Gas Lantern style um only because we just get so much more efficiency out of LED these days we did we were sensitive trying at least getting something to look like that and I know it's done throughout South Orange and parts of Maplewood it's not so common here but but that's also can be on the table we would try to at least be respectful at least be the type but using modern technology at the same time so I I think if the uh if it was acceptable to miss Campfield uh we'd be happy as a condition of any approval this board might Grant to sit down with either Miss Campfield uh Andor delegates from the HBC and talk about ways we can uh en liven this facade a to make it a little more Street friendly towards uh Main Street but also ways that we can bring a little more historic relevance in whether it's the divided lights whether it's the roof up whatever we can do that's that's easy we' be happy to do that M of chair I would invite that and certainly um I'd love to sit down and even though I know it's not binding I agree with you um the success of this project just a little tweaking here and there and make it fit within that within the neighborhood e get e e e e I they app for a perm reive and they demo of the house so it wasn't that they were putting a pulling a fast one on anybody there just wasn't the protections that we need to be in place and hopefully as of this February we'll be in place as we move forward the uh there was additional rebuttal testimony just provided I don't know if we have any other members of the public wish to make a public comment but regardless uh I think a uh Mr Keller's uh offer should be accepted and uh the architect Mr Hawkin if he so desires should be SW uh remain sworn and should testify with respect to uh uh but would not be CES say evidence if he had any Communications with DCA uh and and uh also uh members of the public should be given another opportunity to ask any questions relevant to the additional testimony as well as the board members the board professionals um and then further public comment should they so desire just suggestions I see somebody seems to have taken me up on one of them I I will tell you I you remain under Ro yes thank you I had uh there is a um an a phone number you call the DCA and you can ask them questions about interpretations and I had a long discussion with representative from the DCA and it's clearly considered a multif family and I have to follow all the rules of with the construction documents of as a multif family so it is fits under sh [Music] sh ter some e [Music] us e course what I I e e e e I e St I e e e e e e e e e second okay okay great we'll begin our discussion on the uh the bylaws so if anybody had any questions or comments to bring up based on the red lineis I did we would um page rule 1.1 I guess sorry one and it's a comment that that really that gastone had had right and the comment is we're taking most of the the applications that we get my understanding is they come in electronically um so the the concept was to try to make this stuff more available to people um and taking something that's electronic um that we have and then saying it can only be seen between the time at 8:30 to 4:30 p.m. at Town Hall is the opposite of what we're trying to achieve here I think application materials are made available online or they are not they're all online they are online okay so so it has occurred I guess what what what section did you say that was in it was one 1-3 on page one on page I'm sorry on page one under part one organization illistration the the might I make a suggested change to how it currently reads with respect to oil records uh that's or applications uh or applications Maybe well well well that that that's actually okay but uh the requirement is that it be publicly available for inspection during regular business hours of uh of the uh Municipal of the board clerk um but we can add should the board so desire uh at the end of that sentence uh which meets the requirement uh uh and uh something along the lines of uh and uh to the extent reasonably practicable uh uh will also be online you know or also Avail also available online something like that and I'll clean it up also practice but also your comment right you had written I guess that's what I thought David was going to say I do not see p applications my my associate did that there were no pending applications at the time ofion they up there now and they're up there now committee said draft stuff needs to be made available right so we're good we're above and beyond the requir thank you put so I'll I'll I'll add that uh for you know final version others see only comment I had on these thanks candidly I did to share a few Thoughts with some so but I'll wait for all the board members to to go through if there are any further I I did have a question is there a time frame as to when they are up online or as soon as they're accepted right nope don't tell me to put them up as soon as they come in oh okay they don't even have to go through like like DRC or any of that soon as I get them I put them up if they're revised later the old ones stay and the new ones come on anything up there just putting anything okay um the the um there's a couple of Provisions where uh I just e St creating here that I I don't know the extent which if at all that exists elsewhere and again I want to make sure we have the authority to do that uh as a board uh and and uh I happen to know at least that you can't wave the requirement that the board attorney shall not be the township attorney that is the law so no matter how super the majority is you can't wait uh so so I'm going to need always put it except we're prohibited by law right we'll follow the law except we're yeah where where we're require um so I [Applause] e e e e oh f e before this the very last sentence I eded a sentence the member uh should make such certification in writing either before the next hearing date on the matter or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable I don't know if that's uh acceptable to the board but that was the reason why I thought it best to add that sentence um otherwise I not only thought everything was a good suggestion but I was comfortable without having to dig deeply that everything else was legal and the board had the authority to put it as the board suggested it in their body law so with those two caveats um I have nothing further okay so we don't have resolution on that first one on the board attorney on the board attorney or the um the other one the special committee okay so one colon 1-6 and one colon 2-5 I respectfully request the opportunity to make sure we can uh legally have it as proposed to be put in the bies I do we have a meeting on the 18th yes okay why don't we wait and you give us resolution that way just have the decision before we take a honor before I will I hope theard is comfortable with that but okay um so we will I don't know if it will be on the agenda for the meeting on the 18th I move to adjourn tonight uh a second man can I just bring up one apologize I know we want to get out but on the 18th uh we're going to have the exact same thing happened as we did tonight where we haven't had enough time to do um a report HPC for an applicant that's coming through so I'm asking if we could push that applicant out until hbc's had a meeting to also agree with the report it be if I may it be coming upon me to ask a couple of questions of I the first that that's coming to mind is did that applicant already notice having been told that the hearing was scheduled for September they may have because two weeks away from yeah if they're agreeable to it we certainly could ask them hey because we do they would be the second application on we do have two applications they have the second of two so and it's going to be a very it's not going to be so it's not going to be a one meeting application so I could ask them to perhaps let us continue Let Us carry their application to the the October meeting which is at the end of the month we could but also you mentioned it's probably not going to be a one application meeting so there would still be an opportunity for HPC to provide comments before we take a look either way I'll let the board decide I just know that this one is a much bigger project right and it's the second it's I'm sure it's never going to go I be shocked if it was one meeting I just I would feel sa it's on the website yeah the center at 165 I don't Envision it's gonna go in one meeting I I Envision no it's Michael's like no way so I mean like I said we not to take away absolutely want we want to hear your input but I I mean I think we if we get we might start them um but certainly our next meeting after that is until the end of October we only have one meeting in October so yeah I just want to clarify that I'm really out there on a limb by giving these reports without my board approving what I'm just reporting so all I'm asking is to give us time to do the report let my board approve that report so then I can bring to you guys I would feel much safer and I think legally it might be the better way to go it also sounds like it would make it would beho the applicant to wait until October because if they're going to be at the end of the meeting I I had considered calling them and telling them hey I didn't Envision way he