##VIDEO ID:Rwo95nZPjaI## 17t to 27.8 one on the left hand side and from 10.2 to 2.64 on the right side so it's a it's a significant narrowing and putting a little more air space between structures the Project's increasing the side yard setbacks that's correct and that is a very important positive uh criteria here any other questions from board members have any questions from the public do I have any comments from public I'm GNA close the public portion um do I have any comments from MERS I think this ordinance is under review because of some of the the comments that have been made to to us from the public that there is some tweaking needed and I think there is some tweaking um underway but it's not twek yet but um I think the explanation was sufficient for me to support this application that is a modest ask um it is consistent with the other houses in the neighborhood when you drive around um so I would be comfortable approving this application um I would also be comfortable with that U you're um increasing or you're reducing even more this front y setback and also giving us more side yard setbacks on both I for the reasons that Regina stated as well as this ordinance being taken looked over I have no problem supporting this application agre to motion motion to approve the application calendar 42-24 in second yes yes yes yes yes thank you Lu good luck thank you very much thank you so much thank you for your time and good luck to your husband's I I didn't not volunteer she was asking how you wow how amazing get on the train okay last up we have calendar 41 location the is DJ Timothy 38 CH Road sh I'm one drive yes she just GNA talk a little bit com sure my name is VI lovely to meet you all uh my husband is traveling so he couldn't be here but I feel like we did all the thinking together so I should be able to answer any questions that you have um we live in alen one Allen drve we moved a couple years back uh my sister and her family lives like couple blogs down so we pretty much saw the house and bought it we even didn't walk inside because we didn't want the neighborhood um and you know my kids grow up with her twins so it's kind of perfect situation for us um we love the town my kids go to the public school here um right now as we start living in the house we're figuring out we need this that Etc so we waited a couple of years to just consolidate our thoughts and I think now is the time when we would want to do a couple of things so that it just becomes more of a permanent State of Affairs um we've uh discussed our ideas with Tim uh pulled his brain in a little bit to kind of get everything on the paper um we're really excited about the project but I think we have a few things to discuss so um happy to answer any questions I've not been through this process before so please help me navigate thanks oh sorry come okay qualifications pleas I'm a licensed architect um and uh my license is in good standing I have appeared in front of this board on numerous occasions and other boards in um kind of the sort of The Trusted area I guess at this point now and um that's it I guess my license is actually in good standing the truth okay um your qualifications have been accepted thank you okay yeah it's um it's an R4 Zone it's Allen Drive it's right on the corner of Allen Drive in Farley and I she probably been up Farley you can see there's been a lot of work on Farley lately you know and but this is on the corner kind of right right by sort of adjacent to where a lot of that works occurred um we have uh couple of variances that we're seeking tonight and I'm going to go to what we called our doa1 sheet should be your cover sheet and that is um was really done by the engineers for us and because we have a little bit of regrading work that's going on on this site so I'm on mya1 and it's really a corner lot it starts kind of with Allen Drive this way coming up across the bottom of can you maybe push the plan sort of toward the middle a little bit don't know I can see L of maybe to the side that we usually I think everyone can see it sorry thinking about the gra okay are we good you guys okay over there yeah yeah know I'm good you okay I don't want to forget about you over there so the uh but really how this site is going is it's farly un vertical and then it's Allen Drive going up the side now driv has a little culde saac there's actually the house next door here is a through sight that's coming from uh the gold St Hills Road it's a little house that's tucked in a corner I'll show it to you in a second on the tax map and then there's maybe three more houses up Allen Drive yeah we have kind of a bad lot right everybody I guess it's kind of known that a corner lot is sort of not the greatest lot right because it doesn't have a traditional backyard what we're trying to do really is create a backyard sort of space for the um the kids really so we we have a steep slope area up along the top of this site right when you're going uphill going up fary up to ult Hills Road and we're regrading consider we're putting in walls to or existing walls are in place where um the site was already previously a little bit regraded and we came down now I'm going to go to my proposed plan which is the bottom one we've come we've kind of cleaned up those walls and built a retaining wall across the back side of the property went around a large tree that's back here in the corner came down split into two walls um as we turn the side because you know uh as soon as we break the plane of the building which the engineers gave us a faint line right there you can see it as soon as we break the plane we can't have a wall greater than two feet high right it's a maximum wall height in a legal front yard and as soon as we break the plane of the building that whole thing is a front yard and also going up farle is also a front yard F so we came and then we come across the front of the property here we have a two foot high wall coming across the front and then we so all complies in front of that wall we have a 4ot fence that comes up and comes in ties to the edge of our new building so that's really that fence coming this way um I don't know how to it's a it's an open 4 foot high fence needs a variance it's not noticed but we have the disclaimer inside the notice so why is the fence triggering a v no fence in a front yard it's an open fence and how many linear feet of fence are you proposing in the combined front yards well it's really the Allen Drive side it's about 75 fet of fence so this is an addition to the ones we've got listed it it does not so the the notice doesn't doesn't call out these variants notice does have a just a turn to it it's in the packet it's in the packet yes it's on page 22 page 22 17 okay here we go the applicant May they also seek other variances and waers as the need may arise during the course of the hearing only application so it's technically referred to as a catw provision and the reason why applicants include catch allw Provisions is if they forget or omit um a particular request for variance or away which is What's happen here um typically it's up to the board to determine whether it is comfortable in proceeding with the additional variance or variances and usually that turns on the impact of that variance on the project whether if you were a member of the public and you weren't you saw the notice and you were fine with the proposed deviations and then you come to find that there's an additional deviation for which bar relief is requested whether that would trigger your desire to actually show up obors ask questions so it's up to the board to make that assessment and it may help if I explain the fence before that decision is reached if that's okay because the site is heavily shrub I'd like to go to the my exhibit and just do it okay so I'd like to enter exhibit one I guess it's an A1 I'm looking at you Mr Simon I'd say it's A1 don't look at me That's dangerous my my A1 um and what is A1 A1 is a a board that I put together um that includes a uh a Google aerial view and and a site plan the same site plan that you just saw where I I added in graphically um the trees that are around the fence and I added in a picture of the actual fence okay so so but the fence isn't there the fence is not there no the fence that we are proposing so the fence that you're proposing is like right how many feet off the street is it uh 15 on you know on the prop L 15t off the curb right I I'll I'll let me show it you the fence that we're proposing is you know is coming around like that is the beginning of the front yard the fence is coming down the property the sideline I'll say remember this is Allen going up the street so coming down the sideline and then going across the front of the property and coming to this point which is actually the point of the end of the existing building and then going straight up to hit the corner of the end of the existing building so that fence is really here coming across and coming back up on the property can can you do me a favor can you trace it like you you don't have to draw the exhibit but on the overhead on the aerial picture because that's like the facing the property like you're driving down the street to get to the house like that's I mean that's where I park today so can you show where the fence would be in relation to like here's Farley yeah and there's Allen yeah up here's the little cck at the top yeah that fence is running behind those trees that were right kind of heavily shrubbed comes to that point comes up to that back corner comes here and then goes right there that's where we're trying to create this sort of yard right I I came up this sort of s side line that went across the front of the property line and then I came up to hit the corner of the existing building so so the the fence is going to be in front of those trees it's behind the trees oh I I drew it in front because it looked to me like the shadow is thrown it the shadow is throwing this way so I think I think the trees are actually the the trees are forward the trees are in the right away the existing trees the trees are actually indicated on the engineers's drawings they're actually these trees which if you actually look kind of closely at the drawing the indicated they're within the trees are within the right away I think the shadow is making it back I mean I I is there a testimony that from Allen Drive that no one is going to see the fence yes I didn't finish it yet here when we come up this way the fence is visible right because we're going to come up I'm saying from this this long length on Allen Drive I guess I could put this another way I could say that the fence is going to be behind those trees wherever they are okay the fence the the concept is the fence is behind those trees and but the trees are within the right away yeah so I see the words it's labeled here are provided existing trees on this plant and that's coming around where you're wall is I guess it comes yeah it comes up he brought them they brought them up right behind or they brought the wall right behind those trees I added these 10 these 10 um carers into this because there's no buffer at this point as they come up these 10 trees are I at a 10 six foot emerald green trees you know those trees I added them these but otherwise there's no kind of I'm saying it's so shup you couldn't see the fence what I'm saying can you add a new wall we we had a we had a two foot high wall we're trying to kind of level the property fing behind the fencing the fence is in front of the wall correct but so like Del suspenders you have a wall on the fence we have a wall a two foot high wall to level the grade okay and then we're putting a fence in just so that the balls don't go into the street right that's really the idea that's just to stop my kids just run into the like they play and they go into just to stop you know although the kids probably couldn't run through the Shrubbery anyway tell Tru the wall Defence and then the aror vety that's existing right and the arbores that existing are you know I don't know if you saw them they're about 25 feet high this is Big Stuff are they are they considered Street sheet trees properly in the right way or well they were not planted by the town they were planted by the homeowner they're not Street trees but okay so they're they're planted without permission they're kind of all these trees that are in the right away are kind of planted without permission if you notice every there's a lot of planting in the right away actually like everywhere although I wouldn't say I've done it but no but there's a lot of planting in life so all all I did is I came up and and I don't know if planting in the right way is actually discouraged even by the Forester tell you the truth I've never they've never brought it up to me as an issue but it's not a numbered tree you know the town has numbered every tree that's their tree they have a barcode for every tree so anyway that's the fence that's wrapping around and coming up and and the fence is an open you know four foot high metal fence sort of a this fence in the middle of what the fence is to look like that looks like it's in in front of the front door like like well it's just a picture I had but it's not oh so this fence will not be in front of it's just a fence this is just a pict original issue of the not being noticed um I have a different related question for you well for for both so Allen Road is a short culde yes I just can't how many cars drive on three I mean so rolling into the street where no one goes but it is it's dangerous because it's uphill right so when when the cars come in or any Uber drivers come in who don't have kids on the street they they turn around and come down and so generally what happens is because the trees are there and the Shrubbery is there Mia just runs and then it she gets them by surprise so I just don't want that to occer it's not for any Aesthetics it is truly for the safety of my kids like I just don't want her to run across the trees and the you know the Uber guy sees you know the Amazon this past season and they don't notice the kids running off and it all happens in a split second and every time it it just gives me a heart attack so that's why I want the there's no other way for us to live in that house with 8-year-old running in that side yard without that so so I get you know the the wanting a a fence you know my my only concern is that I feel like you know and you know this in front of the you know this board front yard fences are definitely like they're they're they're not kind of like always a cut and dry application and I feel like this fence is a large part of your application like you have all the these exhibits so the fact that it wasn't noticed I don't you know I just don't know how comfortable I am proceeding with it without it you know being noticed when it is something that you know is normally you know like a a bigger deal in the community you know to have a a fence in the you know in the front yard so I mean Mr yeah I mean this just based on our history no no no I mean um I think all those concerns are are totally valid I concur in terms of this the way this board has uh considered very carefully applications variance applications for fencing in a front yard we talk about how many get your feet whether that can be reduced the type of fencing Etc and and sometimes we get neighboring property owners who do come out and ask some questions and express concerns and and here um it's not like you're in the middle of a long strip of a very busy road where every other property on the left and right have fences and just sort of continuing the fence and even in some cases tying in to a neighbor's fence right this is a brand new fence and there are properties um you know certainly along Allen Drive on both sides of the culdesac um that may be that may be impacted and that that was my question to in terms of other properties on the Spence around the area so that that would be a useful St I didn't even take noes in the other yards because I wasn't looking for may be okay we may be okay just to plant these additional trees that I put in today and that may be enough buffer to make this thing work the same size yeah but put a fence and then we ignore the fence just use the trees so take the fence completely off but we could put I could put the trees right you can put the trees in so maybe we could create the kids aren't going to run through the trees if your desire to achieve some enclosure for your children um you don't have any trees currently or it doesn't appear to have we do have trees on this side to the east that's right yes but there is a fence right behind us our neighbors fence so it's not like the neighboring properties are not fenced they're all fenc yeah but that's in a backyard that's like a different thing but what do we we can create this with the Landscaping we we can I mean it's it's up to you I we're not we're not saying no we're just we're just saying that we have concerns about right proceeding with you know the fence part of the application or you know then the application as a whole without give you a fence and I could put a g into the fence or like a tree I I can clean this up for you okay like I I think I can make this look I could do this with landscaping and make it look good make it look it's a question of what the applicant wants and whether the applicant is comfortable proceeding without the fence even though it's contained within your application materials and pl there are other things that are really important on this I don't know how we all stumbl on just the fence part of it so um I would let's talk about the other things as well and this let's just let it go okay yeah we've let the fence go delete the fence but I can I can plant the trees yes yes the town loves trees in general you can plant tree anywhere no somebody said that that was not a town planted tree Problem by planting trees it's just little joke that everybody's kind of planting trees on the town's property that's all um so we'd like to remove the fence from the application that's what we'd like to do so these materials are they okay the way they are or we just put in the notes that well I think let's say that you could we have variances for setback that I haven't even spoken about so I would just say that in the memorialization you could delete the fence if that's reasonable I mean it's it's up to you that's if you Pro or if you rather re notice and then come back to us no you know to to no she doesn't no okay okay yeah okay so then we're gonna proceed with everything else that has been no list um and not the okay yeah it is it's it's fine okay yeah F so then you don't I'm sorry just to close the loop on this so the on the plan you also have fance relief regarding the proposed front fence height and that's also be yes what plan do you see that on I I see under A1 says number four fences and walls maximum fence 18 48 yes we're leaving the wall which conforms it's not a variance issue but we're deleting the fence okay in its entirey that's true right yes you want to make sure get this right yes so what we're all addition to this what we're proposing to do on this site is to add twostory Edition in the rear back here and add a on story Edition on the side going up the Allen Drive side so those two darkened in buildings are are two editions I take it to my plans now oh and we're also just so everybody knows we're building these retaining walls on the property but they all conform to the ordinance so now I'm on my boa2 sheet which is the first floor plane exactly the same as your first floor plan there's in the existing sort of side yard remember it's a corner lot Farley Allen existing sidey yard is 17.9 we are proposing our on story building this one at 13.8 however we have this Grill area that we extended off of this covered porch that we created and the grill area is at 10.5 so that's where the first floor FL at 10.5 comes from it comes from this Grill wall that's really only about a foot and a half High out of grade because of how high the grade is on this back corner I'll show it to you an elevation but that's triggering it since the grill wall is attached to the building it was considered part of the setback even though it doesn't have a roof okay but the structure with the roof is actually a 13.8 and it's really by ordinance required to be 15 okay where that Grill is there's like a little patio wall saying the edge of the wall is 10.5 I'm going to draw this and call it my um A2 but it's the first floor plan yeah BL2 you can see really the property line right here coming through and this is the 15 foot setback line coming through that's my that's required for that because it's actually a sidey yard you know it's really a corner lot and really the portion of the building right this column is the the roof of the building so the actual portion of the building that isn't conforming is actually that little triangle right there that's what it is we also have noticed for this section of the grill right this wall around the grill is sort of a 3 foot 6 high wall that the grill is pushed up into and this area at the worst condition is the 13 I think it's 13.5 and that is or no 10.5 it is right and that is the variance that we're seeking for that I just I was just trying to confirm that that little so you look at the part that's not covered on the porch yes you're saying there's a little patio area this is this where you're putting yeah it's like a little patio there's a wall around that that you know when you when you measure from the corner of that wall to the um in terms of for setback purposes you have 10.5 feet that's right that is the 10.5 from property line to this corner of that low wall it it's similar to this condition where the front wall is a little higher than the work surface that you guys are seeing so that is really the variance for the first Flor existing right now but the 10.5 is proposed what is existing on this existing little spot because actually the exting there's no building here the existing is this corner way in here which is at whatever that says 17.9 7 missing from our little 258 or something uh my Dimension may be a little are you looking at the um Engineers drawing or mine his his dimensions are a little different than mine he's probably that's where I'm looking what do you call it 23 I believe looks like i' say yeah maybe it's 21.3 maybe it is 23 no you're right 23.3 it looks like it's 23.3 to that corner but the 17.9 I'm referencing is that the existing side yard condition that's closest to the adjacent property is at 17 that's that is this point right at the family room right right way up closer to uh Farley I'm going to say that's the condition it's cited for the setbacks because that's actually the worst condition but I I thought you were asking no we're fine so we're going from 20 in that corner that northeast corner you're going from 23.3 feet 10.5 that's true yes and [Music] then that handled the first floor I think I'm going to say yes I handled the first floor the second floor is required to be at 22 right this is um in R4 so it goes 15 22 there's no angle it's a straight shot so we are building a building right here the prayer room is literally behind the existing line library that space that we're building directly behind it is the prayer room that is at about 15 five say 15.5 15.3 they said that corner right there is actually at 15.3 and that's a second floor that's a two-story building so that's a second floor variance so the Vari is to add forget if it was a closet or an office above the prayer room I forget which closet it's a closet it's a oh no it's an office it's an we have it now as an office we flipped it back and forth I couldn't remember and you can see if I go to my boa three sheet this line the heavy line that's coming through is the 22 foot line right that's required for the second floor so I'm got to call this I guess A3 now it's my second floor plan and this is really the variance request there and it's also true that this is a variance even though it's not cited because the worst condition is cited okay the 15.3 we we thought it was 155 but the 15.3 there is cited not the 17.94% the existing family room but it's yeah yeah it's this on top of this at 17 it's at it's at this like 17 94 but the variance occurs really at the 15. then just clarify what's changing from existing to the new thank you we're adding I'll do it on the second floor for we're adding over the family room which is presently a one-story building and that really triggers a variance for that triangle right everything's a little confusing because this but it's I didn't do that I'm in bedroom five I'm in this little bedroom five over the family room then we're adding an office over the new prayer room so this is a twostory addition that were're adding there and that's triggering a second floor variance for really that triangle that I just shaded in that area because it's required to be 22 then if I go down yeah yeah so I know the orientation I think is off so I'm looking at the engineers plan boa1 looking at these additions right where where are these shaded addition he's got them perfectly he's their orientation same as ours the first floor addition is this building the big the big shaded in area that's the cover it's the covered porch okay the second shaded in area is this building right this is Allen Drive right and this is Farley what you were pointing to though it's over it's not cuz he's giving you a site plane he's not indic feing the area above he didn't he gave you he didn't give you he's not showing the two floors he doesn't indicate that there is work going on above the existing family room so does the work above the family room is that triggering any variance relief I I would say it triggers variance but the variance relief is worse because it's already if let's say the variance was granted it's granted here for the 15.3 and this is actually 17. 94 but we wouldn't normally site two Varian is like that way worst it's like the worst case so in the worst case is the 15.3 okay so so there's but the point being is that there's three areas of the house where work is being proposed that is triggering yes what would help me I keep pointing this what is the existing usage usually this chart is filled out so we can get a gri I can kind of get gr on how much I'm gonna just I'm not going to do the front yard setback part yet okay okay so that's this so we're GNA focus on side yard setb the side yard setback the second one we're on attachment e the second one the existing is 17.9 okay which is really yes which is really the family room okay and the worst condition second floor existing is that 23 that's existing yeah 23.3 is the worst condition on the second floor it it actually conforms right because 22 conforms does that make sense so on the first from 179 to 10.5 10.5 for that Grill uh you know it's a little bit misleading I think it's really the first floor is really small the first floor is really is really that little triangle there it's crazy or you could say if you included the grill it's all the Varian is even with the grill it's 12 feet long and the mean is about two feet wide you know it's it's a that's a little triangle so 7.4 feet we don't know to EXT VAR okay and then on the second floor the existing usage is 23.3 the existing usage the second floor conforms at 20 3.3 the closest to the property line well no you're proposing 15 no no no no existing you're asking me right existing is 23.3 and you're proposing 15.3 15.3 is the is the proposal the proposal and it's actually occurring it's occurring you know right at that corner it's actually this triangle of space the variance for that you want me to give it square footage would that help it's just like a US whatever you know it's like yeah it's probably about s feet taper into nothing in a span of 14 feet you know it's a triangle thank you and then this then you know this one is probably five to zero in 11 ft I'm going to say a little that's the office and what's that this is a new bedroom it's a bedroom that we added over the existing family room there are windows yeah like we have two windows there's an existing fireplace in the family room that we brought up and then we have a window on either side and that's a chimney in the middle that's yes so Tim where is 104 far is that the house immediately to the left one behind I think behind your house is that is that Farley or is that that's Farley that's ER I thought that was is my neighbor you know the the um I had a tax M well I kind of put in the well you know it may be on it may be on this it's in one of we is A3 your boa3 is marked up okay I did I did that's A3 yes um and Eric is well aware of all of this just sorry no ER we have we have shown this to Eric like Eric is aware of the construction you like your variant know it's been there too you're talking about this house I I was talking about the faring yes this one oh yeah know this is faring yeah this is far he's our neighbor he's our only neighbor really because the others are like his address is 104 he's 104 whatever the next house to us on Far yep you're correct 104 that is the house 104 cor how far away I think from this corner to that house it's about 65 ft okay it's pretty good I'd say you and you can see how it's kind of tilted in a little bit right because everything is tilted the the house it's accessible off of um old Short Hills Road is sitting here there another house you can see it on the if you go to well you can see the lot on 16 on the little tax yeah it's very far the uh now do you want me to do the front yard set back even make it more confusing or or should I stay on this a little bit I guess I'm trying to say about this is that they're very small triangles and they're um they're pretty far from the adjacent house and this site is extremely well screen and also has a big change in Contours um they have showed it to the neighbor and the neighbor is in um in agreement with the building okay is I don't know if well you didn't see all these sort of exhibits and stuff that he is aware of it I just prepared this exhibit today the um is the home drive the next house that's pretty far it's pretty far because there's actually this other lot that's if you look in the tax map on your page 16 there's another lot that's actually come through that it's almost in it took me a while to figure out where the house was until I actually looked at the tax man but it's a yeah I don't know why but for some reason they access this site off of Old Short Hills Road for today we'd want to access off of Allen Drive you know not a busy road but um the house you see where it says like one it says like one point zero acres plus or minus on that through lot right on that acreage sign is about where this house is it's a contemporary back there that their address road because they want when that lot was maybe this house was put in before Allen Drive was in I I don't know why but like it came off of that bigger lot 11 that like to the left of it the lot the lot to the left of it is you know 2.68 Acres that's see lot so somebody cut a RightWay through and they built a contemporary what is it is actually 26 and a I've actually think now that you say that I think I've seen that sign driving up old Jos Road and I wonder what the heck that is the I um I think it it probably faces more towards Short Hills Road Old Short Hills Road but it was it's really hard to see it's a it's almost like a I want to say the house is round but I don't think it is is really a contemporary back there so Tim your first floor elevations are at around 109 feet right for the two for the one story and the two story correct the finished floor the first floor yeah um right yes okay what's what's the elevation on that third area where that is not shown as to be improved on the engineering plan but is the the second floor elevation well the Finish floor I just want to know the Finish floor the Finish floor is about about the same 120 right it's the second floor it's up about 11 feet above you know 10 feet it's 10 feet higher than the first floor and what's the elevation of that 119 do you know what the elevation is of that um what I'll call the narrow property to the Northeast well I can see the Contours coming through see 108 107 109 110 it's going up as I walk towards the back corner when I get back to you know about this area it's at about 115 and in the back corner here it's almost at 120 right it's a pretty good pitch to this site the point being is that chase a little bit that the proposed additions here at least from that property are going to appear lower much lower yes but from but from Allen Drive they're going to appear taller because there's a difference engra or elevation between 103 and 19 109 110 yeah but difficult to see because this the building is Twisted a little bit you know Allen Char's not perpendicular to farle right so the building is the building conceals itself a little I got to just for now skip to the front yard give it a break okay um the existing front yard setback is at 40 7 the proposed for us is at 40.9 we're actually a little behind the existing however the average it's a little bit similar to the last case where in this case the average is at 44.5 we can't just be behind our building so the request that we're asking for is for a 3.6t variance for front yard setback along Allen for the one-story building with our existing twostory building being at 40.7 so we're actually a little further back but just because of the way that the setback is calculated now we actually need to request a request relief for that and it's really a one- story structure that I've been trying really hard to make a case that isn't visible from the street so I'm not going to Badger any longer okay should I go back to my side yards or have I done enough h we just couldn't fit everything and it's really just because of the shape of the this is a corner lot it's also on an angle and there is a couple of other things I got to tell you since we're on that subject I guess the um just so everybody gets this the allowable building coverage for this site is 14% this project done is only at 11.5 right this is just a long skinny lot and it's kind of torqued on an angle it's kind of a classic sort of C2 request here and the lot coverage is allowable to be at 35% and completed this is only at 23.5 I'm just saying this is way under and the F allowable on this site is 26% and done this is only at 15.3% The Building height you know allowable is 32% this building is only at 25.6 feet I say 32% 32 feet right the building is only at 25.6 feet so I'm just saying that this is a um a pretty good build on this site if this was a teardown I guess somebody would look at this site and design a extremely long and skinny house and get it to conform so they wouldn't have to be here and the house would probably in its length appear to be almost two houses long related to the houses in the neighborhood so I think that this is a smarter solution for this site and of course it would be bigger right taller a new build than this building so we've a we've been able to put these see lar additions into the rear angled in such a manner that they're not even visible from the street and the kind of angle of that sort of side property line which is kind of like our rear property line helps us to really make these additions not be visible at all really from the road so I I think this is a good application that way ten the R4 zone right yes so it's 2,000 foot size right yes and you have 216 28 yes we're actually over this is a nice you know in terms of lot but it's a I hate to say it to you it's a terribly configured lot you know I hate to say because you know the houses are not inexpensive here but it's it's you know it'd be nice if the lot had a little more width to it and then that width is getting worse because of the angle [Music] more um this prayer room the way it's built just on the on the first FL cover I'm just curious what other consideration so the cover porch is 21 by 243 right it's a 500 square foot covered porch big covered porch so I'm curious what considerations did you do to see if this could well I knew I could make the covered porch smaller yeah right and I was gonna make it smaller to get rid of that little triangle until the engineer actually came back to me and said that he wanted to include the grill into the setback since it was part of the building right because I kind of considered the grill to be like a stoop and I thought it wasn't to be included but anyway he wanted to include it and I I wanted that porch to be the size of this because it actually fits perfectly on the edge on the end of the building like I centered it there's some things about this house that was done I don't know 15 years ago or 20 years ago I think Diana Hoffman did it and um some things that were done on it done really pretty well and I can see how she kind of tried to align things and make things work and I decided to keep the width of the porch and make it smaller because it made that elevation that she had tried so hard to create on the side and it it was able to retain it and it's probably also true that nobody will ever look at that yard like if the kids are playing in the yard they're not going to look back and become Architects because they found the perfect elevation but I just thought that I knew we were going to have to be here anyway and I left it because I thought it made sense and I didn't think it made a difference actually to the streetcape Tim how much does this this um the covered porch which is a substantial por contribute to the side dark setback for seven 7.4 feet you're asking for a 7.4 foot variance pretty much top and bottom is that is that does contribute or is it on the other side the side it's really the other stuff I'm going I'm going to just to make this simple so the cover porch doesn't really unless if you said that that's my question it's the grill in that corner so it doesn't contribut substantially to the side the well 13.7 it's 13.7 it's the grill from the grill to the property line is 13.7 no no no no that's wrong the the grill the property line is 10.5 oh I'm sorry yeah it's 13.7 to there right he gave me to the overhang it's 13.7 that distance right there is what would it be 1.3 or 2.3 1.3 1.3 so could that's the 1.3 feet it's almost right so could you shave the 1.3 feet yes right but then I'd want to shave it on the front too and then it didn't look good to me on the edge I'm just saying for 1.3 feet in the front It's Gonna Make a Difference well you know you don't have to go this way with this but I'm just saying that I think it's worth it to Grant the deviation for this 1.3 for really this small triangular Corner that is about 3 feet law right because um I think that it makes the building look makes the building work much better looking at the building from the lawn this way coming back that's all I'm saying I mean if the board disagrees with I'm fine I guess but I think if I was to pull it in 1.3 on this side I'd like to pull it in 1.3 in the front so if you P it in 1.3 in the front I'm just talking about no no I understand where you're going pulling it in 1.3 in the front what does that do to your 40.9 it would lower it it would lower the request at 3.6 to 2.3 that you know we have a average front yard setback required of 44.5 and if I pulled them both in just if you pulled it in the front you're gonna if if you're going to shave off 1.3 feet in the back and you want to do the same thing for the front what is your proposed front yard side it would be 40 42 Point yeah right and and the requirement is 44 44.5 but before we go too far let's just remember that the existing is 40.9 40.7 or the existing is 40.7 it's actually greater than the request for this one-story porch and the existing is actually a two-story building that even has some architectural projections on it that are actually even a little closer so I I understand how it works as a math problem but I um okay the building is the building is actually a pretty good building you've definitely presented your proofs as to justifying why you don't want you want to see the yes yes not it's not like defense defense I think I can handle clarify that first floor addition we talking about you're doing a nice job steering it to the small triangle but we're really looking at a 1050 set that looking right are not 13 yes it's 10.5 to the grill the grill is part of this fac right yes triang it's this little triangle but it's but before we get to carried away with all this the 13 but that's not really it's not really a number because the the decision's been to set back to the grill even though I don't know I would think you would set back to a building with a roof not to you know but anyway I just agreed to do it right right that's and that's how the engineer wanted to do it and I agreed to do it because I was sick of waiting for this engineer to finish which I think somebody else remers well too and I just happy to get a document but the request is really this triangle I mean I'm just saying it's not I don't think it's a big request it's it's very low into the ground because the grade is actually high like I'm saying that that grilled wall in terms of outer grade is I don't know two feet out of grade or something but I'm still set setting to it an uncovered porch he called it yeah yeah and so the reality is partch yeah you know so you know I could take a stoop on the side to side door and the stoop doesn't count into I set well it would be a good way to maybe seek variance relief is that what you meant thank well thank you then but but I'm honestly saying that it's back in the back corner there it's not really at all visible from the street you know I think it's the right place to put the grill because I didn't want to put the grill in the front of the house I couldn't put it into the side because the great is almost too high talk about the lot size a little bit how does this slot size compared to other lot Siz the slot is Big well it's it's an R4 Zone 20,000 square feet required this is 21,600 and that's part of the reasons why this would probably be a nice lot for a a builder because it's nice and big and they like the bigger it gets the better for them but it's actually kind of smaller than the lots that are in the neighborhood if I look at the tax map actually smaller I mean by numbers well I mean it's close it's probably the same as 104 Farley and 110 Farley 116 Farley is bigger you know this is a these are you know sort of estate siiz houses these are kind of big houses you know how they how this lot compares to typical in R4 well the R4 required is 20,000 and this is 21,600 it's a little so it's oversized it's oversized is there a lot depth requ well it's a corner so it goes away kind of but you can see how it's kind of I'm looking at page 16 the text map you can see how it's kind of compatible it shows more on Farley and shows less on at the top on now and it's only 50 feet wide at the top side 50 and 132 but 132 whereas the one next to it is 100 and 100 they 100 and 100 be you know a better lot a little easier to work with and that's what I'm saying that that this house is kind of faced to Allen so it's actually a little cocked on the site because of that um the front set back is non-conforming yeah I guess I know because 40 foot minimum doesn't hold anymore this house was built probably under the 40 foot it was 40 at the time but 40 is kind of not being we're not using it so but this was built probably under the 40 foot setback water was there any thought given to uh do any of the construction over the ray slay terce where you have a little bit more space and well it's not adjacent to the yard it's not where we're trying to get you know it's like you'd like a corner lot is a problem kind of because you really want to have your Active Space of your house opening up to the rear yard and it's a little difficult this gives us an active space to the yard I mean the cost to kind of work this yard to get it to be usable is not cheap either right it's um so I don't think it actually the bulk would look worse if we went that way it would look worse from Farley this bulk is actually not even um really not even visible okay and it and it gives us the connection to the outside that we're trying to get to really direct to your yes family yeah the that is the existing family room and be the dash line would be the present roof this is the existing roof right there that we've pulled and then if you imagine all we really did we took that roof and pushed it up we added a floor into that the left of that is the other proposed this area is actually the two story the prayer room on the first floor and the office on the second floor this area is the grill area that we talking about see we dropped the grade that way before we had the grade running straight and dropping we probably updated the grade my guys did to what engineer finally gave us and that's why we we're saying that this wasn't showing a wall but now it shows wall more but that is actually the gorilla area and then also you're putting a new you're raising the roof on this right in this area no on the whole house no we haven't touched the roof we left everything all we did yeah that's all existing all we did is we you know this is our new two-story building I hipped everything in to match the existing it's me sorry oh the um but this is the existing roof we're raising the chimdi right because you know we're going up the chimdi is probably stopping about Midway through the Second Story Windows my gu over drilling but we're going up with the new chimy and this is that one story building so we we still have great coming this way so that's why we have that little swell that redirect the water that's coming down the property this is actually that shot from the end in my right side elevation where this window is up in the master and then that's our new building underneath it that's that building where I was fooling around back and forth to try to align things that I was talking about before and then this is that actual two-story structure right there is the projection of the grill area beyond the roof structure and I think that the engineer was measuring to the edge of the overhang for me not to the edge of the building in this case but we would normally measure to where the foundation wall abuts the ground but he's I think added in the overhang that's how he gets these little different numbers in this in this Dy rer can you tell me where the sidey guard setback is problematic um you see it this area okay on the second floor okay you know I'm going to say it's I'm just guessing but I'm say it's about zero and on this side it's about seven right it's a triangle and then the same thing is probably I think if I remember this it started about here about a third of the way across here and it goes to about five from zero to five it's a triangle of this and this deepest on the sort of sides closer to me because that's the way the property lines getting cut can you tell me all the hardships on the property well it's just it's a corner lot and then it's worse because it's got this angled back lot line you know they so they built this house they made a decision that they wanted it to face Allen so that gave them this kind of bad lot line in the back it would have they would have maybe been better off to go parallel to the rear lot line and  the house on Allen but it's a little nicer if in general if the house face straight to the street and that's what really created um this problem and I I'd say we have controlled it because not a unique situation here where we have an oversized lot and you said that you're way under in terms of building coverage lock coverage F and height you have the reason why I asked earlier about the lot whiff lot depth is that you have a dimension on this corner lot that is about half in terms of I'll call depth from Allen Drive compared to the shape of the other Lots along far correct in terms of that because of that angle you're referring to you're a little choked in that corner yeah right uhuh right and in terms of if you were going to argue for a C2 benefits that detriment you're saying that you would arguably have greater benefit by having the slight deviations per the triangles you reference versus making those setbacks conforming but bringing the additions closer to Farley roow yes a couple of questions this new roof that is being added on the two additions that's still lower than the existing roof yes when I said that 25.6 actually up that's there yeah the building's low cuz this is that age when the buildings were lower you know it's got 8 foot ceilings you know somebody want 10 foot now sure and the side of the house to this side the top top portion of this how far is it I think you probably mentioned is that how far neighboring home is from this addition yes I think from this building I think this is closer it was this point 65 ft this this way it's pretty far say any other questions did I confuse it I'm sorry if I confused everybody that's the record like that we don't have any members in the audience see um okay so I am going to close the public portion um and ask board members what say you I think this is a bit of a tough one um you know look I I mean I do appreciate Tim that um you this is a this is an odd lot shape and size I mean it's it's a large lot um but uh but it does have this sort of the tapering really limits kind of what you could do in the placement of the house um is is somewh awkward it seems so um and I do think the lot size can probably support the additions um I think it's fortunate that the other lot is the next for Neighbors 65 ft away because one of the things that is concerning me is you're just kind of bunching a lot in the in the back which is really close to the property line um and I know this neighbor has said they don't uh object um well they're not here uh but they don't object but you know conceivably someone else in the future might not like uh things as close as they might ultimately be but I I think it's probably far enough away that it isn't a significant issue so I'm interested to hear what my colleagues say I I um I think I could probably be supportive of it um given the you know given the things we've talked about but but I'm interested to hear what my colleagues said I I can go I I concur with what Gary's comments were here I think this is a little odd shaped although it is large uh but uh given that the numbers are way below on the F lot size even the height of the additions is lower than the existing ceiling plus it's farther away on the side where the additions are made to the uh most adjacent neighbor I think this lot can take on more and uh there there is element of hardship although it's a very large lot um I could be supportive as well on the same lines I'll go next um thank you for all of this I would have loved to have these numbers f on it really does help me to see how much you went over but I think you've done an okay job of thr everything in in the meantime the only thing that stands out to me is the covered porch that's that's really large but I can see visually it's a pretty challenging lot because it's a corner lot it's a triangular lot um and two colleagues have already said you're pretty far away from the closest neighbor your neighbor was actually out yesterday when I was driving by and I was like they're watching he did what's that he did mention mention somebody slowed down and like so then I called The Nanny but I think it's that's okay anyway um I would be supportive of this application because um I think the property can support it because of the size and the hardship convinces me that this is a good solution a reasonable solution I'll take the other side I'm not supportive of this application a number of re setep back if it was one that would be maybe something that beond but there's three talking the side Set Side um there a number of feet and it's extensive also when you turn to look at your she5 that's pretty substantial what you're adding to the back of that house especially for the second floor the GM is raising up everything else so I I think it could be reworked that's not to me to say but the way it's presented here I'm not favor I'm not sure how I feel I think it's a tough one Gary said to begin with I you know I did walk around your house sorry I rang the bell three times oh no I no there was nobody and I apologize I wasn't at home and I didn't hear the bell ring and so no they were there but they didn't answer so no I was it's very close to the neighboring house and that's the part that troubles me it it's how you know when you walk around the back it it's very close without these additions there already and when you say the neighboring house or saying to the to the fence line to the neighboring prop neighboring property on Farley um whatever whatever this is here in the rear of the that's corresponds to that and yes that's what I mean um there's a you know there's slope up there's a fence I guess house is the wrong neighboring property there's not a lot of it feels very tight back there already and um and I I I could get behind this but I do wonder if there's another solution that's where I'm sort of um you know I'll say that this is an oversized lot but we're not talking about um overdevelopment here we're not you know talking about um any coverage issues we're not talking about f um I don't I don't think that that's what we're you know what what the what the applicant is is doing what we do have I think is is really a clear appri with the shape of this lot and where the existing house is so you know I think doing these additions again we're not getting into any type of coverage or um you know F issues here we're getting into this setbacks but we're also it's not the entire spaces that are in the setbacks they're you know relatively small portions like triangles you know within um not the whole shaded area that's that's totally in the setback um you know and I I think that for those reasons I could be persuaded to support um support this application I mean I don't I think with where this house is and how crammed it is into the backyard it's not a backyard you know it's the front yards because it's a corner not um you know I think that's a hardship um and I'm happy to see that the applicant isn't over building here so I'm I'm happy they took out the fence too because I would have agreed with you to say we should withdraw the application noce because a lot of people are funny about offenses neighbors can be very fun um Tim do you want to Pur with I think so right yeah it's just everyone it's just a there's no F variance D variance just majority and one two three four everyone tonight is um would someone like to make a motion make a motion to approve I no yes yes yes yes yes yes thank you can I I just ask a question what happens if it's a Time does the Chairman's vote carry like if there were six and it went 3 three you lose oh because your majority thank you so move to turn yeah it was great my brother got married --------- ##VIDEO ID:d4Utzdlcmss## okay in accordance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975 be advised that a notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board town hall and mailing to the officially designated newspapers a list of the meeting dates annually indicated indicating that this meeting would take place at the Town Hall at 7M on August 5th 2024 Jose presid here here here here um I'm just going to start off by announcing that calendar 3911 d23 the applicant is Amaya Garbo the location is 146 sore Road this matter is being carried to 9624 with no further notice so if anyone is in the room for that it will be heard on 9 1624 um okay we will start with the approval of minutes from 6 uh June 17 2024 do I have any corrections or changes do I have anyone who will make a motion motion to approve second all in favor have to um and the next is um the memorializations the first is calendar 3963 d23 that's Michael and Tanya ganella the address is 35 Adams Avenue eligible to V on this um do I have any do I have any corrections or changes to the memorialization do have someone want to make a motion make a motion to approve calendar 3963 d23 I will second yes yes next we have the memorialization for calendar 3994 24 that's St Rose of Lima 5052 Short Hills Avenue Short Hills um and let their record reflect that person has just entered the room um can you let us do I have any corrections or changes to this memorialization so Madam chair um I'm going to just raise a couple of points that were raised earlier today by the attorney for the applicant um they were fine with the resolution in terms of form they just had a couple of concerns about two of the conditions uh for approval so um and these are condition number two and condition number three that were in the resolution condition number two as drafted states that the applicant shall in consultation with the Township's Forester design and plant Landscaping that will provide screening of the applicants proposal for all four seasons of the year what the um applicant has proposed is a change in the language to instead State the applicant shall in consultation with the Township's Forester design and plant Landscaping with the intent that it will provide screening of the applicants proposal for all four seasons of the year to the greatest extent practicable and subject to the township Foresters review and approv so um this proposed change as well as the next one I'm going to mention I told the applicants attorney that I would review the matter with the board and that's that's what I'm doing um I um in terms of reviewing the record and preparing the draft resolution I don't um have a big problem uh with the proposed change uh given that it's going to be subject in the end to the review and approval of the tachic Forester it also is sometimes difficult to ascertain when you're providing a condition that the applicant is to a screen a particular proposal for all four seasons screening from where and so usually because of that we keep that language in but we lean on the tat Forester in this case just to make sure that he or she is comfortable with the with the proposed screening per the Landscaping plan so does anyone have any objection or comment with regard to that proposed change um I just want to ask you will the township Forester be aware of the board's you know preference to have it as a no Four Season reading like who who's the onus on to you know let them let them know well so the the four uh the screening all four seasons of the year is going to remain in the resolution as revised um but presumably the township Forester gets a copy of of the resolution okay great so does anyone have any problem so talked about Evergreens just to put some daylight on it we uh have discussed Evergreens but I think the client felt that that might not be possible that that's correct that's um particularly what they pointed out to me that he had some back and forth about whether it was Evergreens or giant green Giants or different types of um evergreen trees so that's why they felt more comfortable just kind of meaning on the theant forest so so that's that's the one change and the other change had to do with paragraph three where um the way we drafted it was to state that the applicant shall in conjunction with condition number two above regarding the T of Forester plant all trees contained within s landscape design at a minimum height of 18 ft at the time of planting that's what we had stated what they wanted was to add the language to the greatest extent practicable and subject to the town Foresters of you um I I actually shot a note back to the attorney saying I'm I'm less comfortable with this proposed change because the applicant did represent that they would have the trees at a minimum of 18 18 feet tall to which I received a response that they are not opposed to sticking to that representation but they just want to make sure that the township Forester reviews that because they said that there may be some overhead wires and some other things in terms of particular placement of of those trees so I I I would recommend to maybe keep the language as originally drafted but maybe we add subject to the tangent Foresters re okay and then other than that uh Regina pointed out that um we mentioned Frank and Tiffany Farin back and is farach not ekin back so make that change as well so and that's it in terms of comments from the attorneys or other members of the okay thank you um any other changes Corrections you already okay do I have a motion to approve so I'll make a motion to approve calend 39944 with the changes that we just discussed do you have a second I'll second yes yes yes just yes thank you and I'll make those changes and get them thank you um okay first up we have calendar 3996 24 that's 38 present placec are you here okay great why don't you come on up who do I swear to are you the architect I'm the architect okay is your client going to be speaking at all uh no he's on a business trip unfortunately so if that's okay do you have anyone else who speaking um well we have Chris Montana who is the contractor okay as well okay [Music] I do Christopher Fontana c h r i s t o p h e r last name f o n t n William figdor fi g d o r I'm general contractor doing work on this property we started at phase one um would you mind just giving the board qualifications please um I've actually been here with the board on previous occasions um I've been an architect for um well registered since 91 and your license is in standing yes it's been yeah you provide testimony before this boards in ESS countyif as a professional iif um so here we're here for um we're here for a deck roof in other words we con reconstructed an existing deck um with uh after reviewing with I and davit we um set back the sidey yard of the new deck even though we could have uh it was grandfathered but just to conform better with zoning uh now uh the owner is also as part of this project has always wanted to have a covered a roofed deck a roof for the deck and uh the idea is that the uh you know it's more of a yearr round usable not so weather dependent whether it rains or not for you know to get better use out of it um so we've already built the deck Chris already had constructed it and now we just uh would like to proceed to um do the the roof so there are several variances that we need for that um due to the nature of the property LS and this kind so there's three I don't know if you need me to list them yeah so um section 606 2E 2B that's for lot coverage permitted um we're allowed 35.5 35% and we're over by 1.9% so we're 36.9 uh the 66. 2E uh1 a that's for rear yard unoccupied uh it's required to be 25% unoccupied and it's uh it would be 14.3 um although this was already covered uh area um I I should just give you the straight numbers uh 66.2 e1h that's rear yard setback the required is 23.8 proposed is 20t um that hasn't changed either so um these are existing conditions so you're saying that these all three lot coverage rear yard unoccupied re setback are all existing conditions nothing is made worse by putting the no we actually improved it a little bit by reducing about two foot and change on the sidey yard setback so we've actually improved it not um the other way no no that was well we did it we cut it back so you wouldn't have to S it was like 10.07 I think or 10.7 and now it's a little over 12 feet which is the required so so these are all pre-existing conditions that were grandfathered in because you rebuilt the deck making the improvements that you just referred to but now that you're trying to put a ro roof over it you're triggering all of these again but you're not you're saying you're not making anything worse this is all right just that it's not preexisting to have a ro over it yeah it was a deck it's still a deck and then it's just a roof so the roof is the same dimensions as the deck as the new the new deck the replacement deck and you had talked about the side but also it looks like the the lck coverage is also done something different because of the change SI um well we does the deck pre group qualify lock coverage um it it it should count as L coverage yes I'm not sure what the question is so I'm sorry 39 I guess it's not a big difference but it looks like you changed it well um it depend I guess um I'm trying to figure out when I changed it because it was when I built when we did the deck and then we applied for the roof and I don't recall what the number was before and the then the subsequent number I think what M law is getting is that originally you had lock coverage at maybe 37% okay and then once you remove that side yard piece it was reduced to 36.9% is that possible yes and that that accounts for the deck beinged uh reduced so I think that's so that condition so it count it counted as coverage before and now it's a little less coverage will this group attach house um you mean connect to it um I would think so I mean it's designed is it going to or not it it it should yes R Flash it's going to be completely yeah it's attached it's not a it's structurally in independent in other words there's three posts on each side and so it's it's not being structurally held to the house but it's attached right so your contract flash that ESS it's self supporting but we are going to attach it to the house as if it is part of the house the whole time um the same with the new deck there was a c deliver on the first floor so the deck is self-supporting the deck standing but it's but it's attached but it's not structur correct do you have any plans to enclose the ever no that wasn't no they wanted the outdoor space rain water we've already actually made it a deck so you can't just like I mean in theory you could enclose it but it would have to be winterized I'm sorry any any uh leaders down spouts gutters that's included from the roof but I'm saying this new roof yeah that would be all drainage on it as well new gut I'd have to see what number note that is uh note 12 it says gutters and leaders are included in the scope of work question about that with the gutters and the leaders do they tie into the existing drainage that's on the property or they what I'm getting is that it's that going to increase the drainage on the neighbor's property I don't think they have underground so I think everything is just running into flower beds right now just in the flower beds and I guess previously there probably had to be some drainage from the deck or not really I mean just there's you know slats everything kind of just goes right through it so okay yeah so this will be a little more focused I guess yeah could have to consider where we we drain it to but I think he wants it to get you know back into the flower beds I have no idea I think there are some codes regarding drainage okay yeah I know as far as water Dr good thanks basically there'd be two gutters on the left and right side of the de just a quick question how far is this prop this deck going to end up being from the closest neighbor I mean I know it's existing and I know youve improveed the be more closer to compliance well the rear yard uh is existing is 20 feet at the closest point so if you're looking at the the survey the and you're looking in plan the right side of the deck would be the closest that's 20 um the required is 20% Which is 24 feet so that corner of the deck is the essentially where the stairs is is where that comes through so 20 ft 20 feet 20 and is that that's improved by this construction is it was it 20 was it 18 it's staying yeah it was the left side shed back to the uh rear yard unoccupied it looks like you also be on the jack patio balcony area driveway was there any thought given since you do have significant deviation to uh remove or reduce some of that coverage in the rear you have any I didn't have any the I sure he be you know he would consider it all you guys to pull back on that stuff not here any discussion not yet could you speak to the different variances Beyond just that they were pre-existing and was now kind of reactivating them by trying to the RO so you want to know well I mean I just I feel like you you know you really haven't said much like or anything else just be yeah um I'm not sure what in other words there are three variances that the applicant from this board and to um have the board vote affirmatively for those variances the applicant has the ver of proof to demonstrate that they need what's called a positive and negative criteria for VAR and the chair I believe is saying that she would like to hear some proofs uh allegedly to satisfy that positive and negative criteria for the variance Rel required of the by this board well um like I said before the owner wanted to have a more year round deck now I don't know what numerically that would that's not a numerical answer but that's personal to the applicant yes it is himself so he's not flipping the house or anything yeah that's not that's not anything that we could like that that would go towards the positive or negative criteria we can't personal circumstances isn't anything that we consider so well he considers it an an um amenity for the property to have something that is usable uh more than weather related is there a reason why this particular deck should be covered as compared to any other deck that potentially could be covered in the township um I I can't answer that I mean I don't know what the answer would be this is um something he really felt he wanted to have for the enjoyment of his space is there any hardship on the problem property that would make this the only solution possible you mean what other solutions could have there been or is there just any particular properties of this well yeah I I mentioned how about a retractable roof or something that would be less structur you know that could be opened up or something they weren't interested in that is the lot unusually narrow or like that well it has uh