oversaw first heina turn your mic in accordance to section five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 be advised not this meeting was made by the posting on the bolon board town hall and mailing to the official designated newspapers the list of the meetings annually indicating that this meeting would take place in town hall on at 7M on January 22nd 2024 Mr Simon yes you're up I'm up okay we have to uh administer the oath of Allegiance in office um prisilla you're up so you can raise your right hand you after me I say your name I Priscilla s you solemnly swear or affirm do solemnly swear and affirm that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of the state of New Jersey that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the governments established in the United States and to the governments established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people I do further solemnly swear or affirm I do further solemnly swear or affirm that I will faithfully impartially and justly that I will Faithfully partially and in just and justly excuse me partially uh perform all the duties of the office of zoning board alternate number one member perform all the duties of zoning boarding alate alterate one number one member according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability so help me God so help me God gradul [Applause] I thank you josephi pres Shandra here Gary Rosen here Regina Tru here Prill here yeah here here um the resolutions I know there are they're not on theenda so let me pull those up okay I got got the first one is got it so there's no minutes all right so um you're going to be first okay right okay uh memorialization starting with calendar 39 3523 Christ Church 66 Highland Avenue in Short Hills um any changes or Corrections uh who's all this oh sorry which one are we doing uh 39 3523 Chris oh she's shandrew Gary Regina matter I thought we we approved last week we did his contracts this is the resolution Professional Services contract which I have to oh so that Qui um as noted in memorializing resolutions uh just vote on this yeah all right um can I have a motion regarding the resolution the zoning board approving Professional Services of our board attorney Robert Simon have motion to approve a motion to approve and a second I can second Joseph Coffield yes shandre hard yes Gary Rosen yes Regina TR yes c s yes Jessica yes yes thank congratulations conat so just the roll call on uh demoralization of calendar 3935 23 Christ Church who's eligible to vote on that um shandrew Gary Gina Joseph Jessica uh if there are any corrections or changes I have a motion on that move approval calendar 3935 Church second shandre harani yes Gary Rosen Regina Tru Joseph CFI yes J yes next up we have calendar 39 4923 Sally La car uh and star Joshy 49 far drive Short Hills any changes of Corrections that eligible or shandrew Gary Regina Jessica Craig someone to make a motion motion to approve the memorialization for calendar number 39 49-23 thank you a second good second shandrew harani yes Rosen Regina Tru yes Jessica yes yes lastly calendar 39 5023 asash Sharma 29 Winding Way and Short Hills make changes or Corrections elandre Gary Regina Jessica Frank I have a motion to approve I'll make a motion to approve calendar number 3950 d23 a second second shandrew hor yes Rosen yes Regina yes yes yes all right so this evening we're going to take our last case first here calendar 39 6223 which is uh Charles and Margo Mullins at 17 Wind come on down good evening previously sworn so you're ready to go okay so um at the end of the last meeting there was discussion about removing the small driveway that's on the right side of the property that goes behind the garage uh I sent an email to Eileen she said fine she would send it on to the board attorney and it would be whatever needed to happen um I have copies of the of those emails for that email if anybody wants it right so um as the board recalls at the very end of the meeting the bo board was reluctant to make a motion to formally approve the application until such time as the applicant came back to the board with precise calculations as to the amount of impervious coverage that was going to be removed in connection with the board's request that the upal the right side driveway that was leading to the backyard be partially uh removed and replaced with steps and some Stone walk way area yes and so um what the board instead did is that it instructed me on a vote to prepare a draft resolution anticipating that we would be receiving additional information as promised by the applicant in fact as stated Eileen did receive some revised information that indicated that the amount of perious coverage that was going to be removed was 350 square feet correct correct and So based on that information I went ahead and I prepared for the board's consideration uh just sort of to crystallize all the issues a draft resolution with regard uh to this application and if I recall yes so if you look at the top of Page Three right before number seven they indicated the applicant submitted to the board calculation supporting same this is talking about the coverage impervious reduction uh in advance of the January 22nd 2024 heing the application took place um so my position is that you don't if you've submitted the information to e and e you find that that was acceptable in terms of the calculations I don't think you need to mark an exhibit or anything unless any member of the board wishes that that you do so so for every for the point of calculation we were going from 4037 correct down to 35.4 yes okay so that's the that's sort of the the bottom line calculation there um of where we will land as opposed to um you know well you can say the existing but since we're moving the house forward it sort of creates a smaller front yard one sort of helps the other so at the end of the day we're at 35.4 so any uh any questions regarding that um so do you have any further testimony that you want to add at this point or no I just came with additional information in in the uh with the possibility that the board or individual members might want to see something more I don't need to as you mentioned I don't need to bring it up if uh or present it or Market is you can proceed that's that was the uh it was summarized very nicely right here the the statistics are correct and the uh the assumption that I have was that the uh that this would provide a better response by the board to this application very well then uh any questions from the audience or any comments from the audience regarding this application in that case I will close the public portion uh board members uh any further thought and just for clarification although the board instructed me to prepare a resolution that my recommendation would be is that we wouldn't be voting necessarily on The memorialization Tonight is is here for your edification because it's not listed on the agenda you know do things properly so the vote would just be regarding the application itself I mean I think the testimony and you know what we presented is consistent with what was discussed um the last time we heard this application so I would be comfortable voting on it and voting in favor of it yeah I think it's a good com romise um where we you know we're adding little to the front of the house but at the same time compromising a little bit on coverage so uh we support that application thank you have a motion move approval a second second Joseph colfield yes shrew hard yes Gary Rosen yes sh P yes Jessica yes yes good luck with brother thanks very much thanks for the reordering the calendar sure thank Youk okay so next we're going to go back to the beginning of our uh agenda here with calendar 39 1823 uh gang out 20 clont Drive in Short Hills this matter was carried from January 8 evening how are you hi there Mr chairman not an attorney on the project planner John mcdna just going to introduce the changes that the applicant made since the last Hearing in respon yes so John you have not testify with regard to this application I have not we had some planning testimony last time I associate Matt Flynn was here correct all right so we're swear you and then get your credentials you s from testimony in tonight's proceeding do the truth hold Truth by the truth yes I doif the board please sure hi there everyone my name is John McDon that's belt MC capital d n o u I'm a licensed professional planner here in the state of New Jersey that license is current and it's in good standing I've been here in front of this board before I'm also certified on the national Level under aicp that license also is current and good standing and uh this is what I do testifying for boards such as this on a nightly basis throughout the state your qualifications are accepted please receed thank you so you heard testimony last time about an application for an addition to an existing home at 20 claremount drive it's a single tax slot blocked 184 lot 18 I'm sorry lot 13 it's a 6,000 square foot lot and it's been developed with this single family dwelling that was constructed about 1949 uh the applicant is seeking to make upgrades to the home to improve the living environment that's associated with it there's been some back and forth with the board as part of the interactive process that our L use law envisions um it's really just a small addition to that existing home with a modification to the roof the last proposal was to add Dormers and a fourth bedroom and a flurry area that was going to equate to 39.5% that was the relief that the applicant was seeking where 30 36% is the maximum that's allowed in your R six Zone District based on the feedback from the board last time the applicant has made modifications we have Mr singer here if you need any detail but the long and short of it on the front facad the building is going to remain exactly the same but for the removal of those Dormers on the top level John I'm sorry to interrupt you um given the fact that we've gotten a lot of different plans and I know this was submitted to the board but only recently so I think it's best if we mark this okay right so I believe that the latest John that you were about to refer to is um is uh resubmission number four uh dated January 4th 2024 is that accurate that's correct yes okay and so I think we're going to mark that as A5 is that sound right I yes I so this is going to be A5 with today's date thank you Mr um so if you can just when you Contin your testimony um refer to A5 and I think even before you get into the plan on the right side is the zoning table of just want to identify what's highlighted Etc sure thing so again A5 for the record has a Zone table in the upper right hand corner it also has which you can see in a rectangle that's predominantly colored in yellow is the subject site and how the existing and proposed building will will sit on the property we'll start in the upper right hand corner first the relief that the applicant is seeking is is twofold first the applicant's asking the board to move on a D4 a floor area ratio variance where 30 8.83 per is what's proposed again that's a reduction of the 39.5 three that the applicant was proposing last time we were here so we've dropped about a deci decimal point 36% being the maximum allowed and also interrelated relief for side yard setback if we look at the site plan or the plot plan again with the yellow backdrop being the impervious coverage the proposed building or I'm sorry the existing building is in the middle the core of the building is presently at two stories there's there's going to be an addition off the back that'll be two stories then there's a porch in the back as well that is going to be um uh demoed and I believe there's going to be an extension put above above that and then we're again looking at a floor area that would eventually equate to 2,330 Square ft there is going to be an extension of an existing non-conforming side yard setback on the right hand side by virtue of that rear addition off the back so we're looking at again continuing that existing condition which is presently at 10.1 feet where 11.39% and we'll just Echo the proofs from before and also augment that with a new table for the board okay hold on a second you just said 1139 on the right side setback this has [Music] 11.71 I'll Stand correct that 11.71 is the correct number okay thank you and if I may I have a new table for the board just to show how the subject property aligns with the surrounding properties you know that neighborhood compatibility is always a key aspect of any variance application Mr chair with your permission sure send it to our board secretary first and is this is exhibit this will be exhibit I'm guessing A6 that today's date today's date 12224 when you say lock comparison table so what we've done is we've given the board um a table with approximately I'll say 20 or so rows that identify properties on clar Mount Drive on both sides of the street the same street and the opposite side so there are 20 rows and then there are about a dozen or so columns where we identify the comparable address block the lot and then going through the property record cards the floor area under floor one floor two and then the Garage total floor area the total lot area obviously the way the calculation works is dividing the floor area divided by the lot area gets us to the floor area ratio if you take your eye down that column of f in yellow we have the subject property at 38.8 proposed and what we've identified of the 20 or so lots which are um surrounding the subject on Claremont Drive approximately well actually eight of them have a higher floor area rate Ratio or 40% of the lots have a higher floor area ratio than the subject we also show that the homes are of older construction you can see the newer construction homes in particular the one over at 17 Claremont drive has a higher F and that in fact was approved at a higher F than what the applicant is proposing we also tried to show with the last column that the applicant is not asking for excessive bedroom count here in the red we've highlighted those that are proposing or those um dwellings that have the same number of bedrooms or more the building presently has three bedrooms um the applicant is looking for four bedrooms here again for a more comfortable living environment and you can see that many of the homes in the neighborhood also have four bedrooms some actually have five there's only a few that still have three bedrooms so in the interest of balancing we think this is good evidence here to show that what the applicant is asking the board to move on is not excessive or out of character it's not going to create a home that is out of scale with the neighborhood I think if you go down the column that looks at floor area you'll see that many of the homes are just north of that 2,000 sqare foot livable area or floor area number and that's what the applicant is proposing here as well so sort of in the middle if you will in terms of how this home compares to the other homes on the street all of those boxes that we've put in r or where the floor area or the floor area ratio exceeds what the applicant is proposing and then finally just to Echo based on that new evidence and the movement of the application closer to conformance with the ordinance just to remind the board that last time we put some I have one question regarding A6 so going across um each one of these has I guess first floor that's F1 yes and F2 is second floor and then garage is separate that's correct and it seems that just eyeball on this that if you add up F1 F2 and garage you're coming up with the floor area on the lot I believe that's how we did it yes is that correct or that is correct yes so if that's the case does the is the floor area of the 2330 for the subject Pro property is that how how do you get there it's a good question and I did not fill in the boxes for one for floor one floor two and the garage I just know on the plans we're proposing 38.8% and then I just backed into it the floor area of two May Mr singer can can add some clarification on that if he knows in terms of just hey John just so we're dealing apples to understood we're asking for relief of 30 8.8% which is the floor area of 2330 and we'll get and we'll get you that answer before I'm done and the measurements are hold up for the time we'll come back to that unless the board wants to pause and get that right now we can certainly do that yeah I me just throw it in real quick we got looks like we uh our ground floor is at 1217 is that correct yeah um yeah 12:17 and the Upper Floor is at uh 1113 113 okay and simp tells me not but what about the there's no garage because it's attached on is in first calculation and it is part of the first FL calculation okay yeah what yeah so this whole area so you break down your garage separately on all these other houses well the garage oh him sorry well on his on his A6 yeah so um was that I mean did you just break that out that way I find it unusual that that's how it's listed on the tax uh and I'm just going to break out these tax records and I'm also going to go back and and try to remember if the garage is actually calculated as part of the FL area the tax purp ta they are I mean it's a single car garage do you know what size it is I believe it's 10 by just so you 190 ft there which bring your F1 calculation down yeah 1027 I'm calculating the garage it's on the ground floor it's part of the ground floor okay so we are comparing yeah so when you got these other numbers you got them off your tax CS yes and I can certainly as part of the record submit them to the board if you want to check my math no no I'm just interesting how that was broken down separately also another observation was that more than half of them lot area is exactly 6,000 more than the yes this neighborhood has been fairly uniformly platted at many of the lots are 6,000 square feet some are below some are a little above okay so anyhow we tried to give the board some some fair and reasonable numbers for for comparison but just to and I won't go through them in Long detail again since my colleague Mr Flynn put them on last time but project is going to offer several public benefits here we always know that Home Improvement adds value and quality to a home which translates to adding value and quality to a neighborhood it's it's a good thing to invest in property especially an older home uh we know it's going to improve the living environment for a family that likes living here and has familiarity at this site the additional floor area is the result of ineff efficiencies in the configuration of the building as it presently exists and we're working essentially within the floor plate of the existing home 45% of the additional space is within the existing floor plate so it's a better reuse of space than a a tear down and and starting over restoration of the pre-existing patio eliminates the lot line relief the project provides more privacy for the neighbors and the proposed alterations maintain and respect local history and context it's an overall better Street presence with a varied roofscape and a renovated facade and again all the purposes of zoning that we put forth on the record before would carry through again um just to go through them purpose a purpose C purpose e g i M and O those are what Mr Flynn put on and I would just Echo that they're still there even better than before and then finally with respect to the negative criteria based on the new testimony um as part of the interactive process we have an applicant here that has been trying to be cooperative with the board to strike that balance minimizing the house to a reasonable amount yet still asking for some relief above that 36% based on on all of the testimony on the record architecturally and the planning Foundation we think that relief can be granted without any substantially adverse impacts to the public uh or certainly without any substantial impairment to the Zone plan um we gave the board a similar table when we were here for Bodwell which is not too far um that was at 42.5% and again I don't I know it's not precedent setting I only give it to the board for comparison purposes and then over at 17 Claremont which is not too far away uh 39.7% uh was where that one was approved again the applicant is asking for 38.8% so we think it's reasonable and we think that good balance has been met with the revisions before you I'm not buying this let me see your tax cards here's the problem you're you're if you take like 23 CL all right it's 1150 first floor 1,000 second floor 180 garage if you subtract the garage out the first floor is smaller than the second floor it doesn't make sense so you you're are you sure that these garage numbers aren't in the calculation already we you're adding the three together but if you subtract the garage out of these okay like on ours we pull 190 off the first floor okay which means that the way it shows that floor one would be smaller than the second floor okay because 190 square feet of it is garage that's not the case in any other of these calculations so you're telling me all these houses the second floor is substantially smaller than the first floor by over 200 square feet I'm I'm checking Mr chairman I I don't know I I'd have to go back and look at how I did the calculations I'm not sure that that garage is just a memo for example I'm looking at this would be the second line on the table it's showing a first story wait wait is this 26 Claremont 26 Claremont is showing a first story of 1330 13113 and an upper story of 812 correct and then it shows a half story above that of 374 and a if I scroll down a garage of 198 square feet right but that 13 13 should include the 198 because if that was the case in every one of your first floors the floor calculation has to be less because your house would be one of the only ones where the first floor is smaller than the second I'm I'm checking now I didn't I did not break it out otherwise um and I don't know that 374 would apply as well that half story well it's half it would 2499 you know the problem and you know I I commend Mr McDon you know in terms of getting the putting the information together the problem always is that we never know how the tax assessor you know measures the you know the different stories and different scores and whether it's the same as an f anal no I guess I guess from my point of view is whether or not there really is 50% of the houses are over I think that speaks to that but you know either here nor there it's a matter of proving whether or not this property can accommodate it I mean showing you know zoning you know violation or zoning you know variances issued as justification for more variances being issued I'm not really sure is a compelling argument so we really have to just look at it as a standalone piece of property and say hey can this property accept the volume that's more I think the way I'm leaning here than looking at these calculations because I don't think they're right um any further the only other thing I'll say again is the applicant is asking the board to move on a four-bedroom home in a neighborhood that has many four-bedroom homes on similarly situated lot sizes um if the board would like I could run it under just the F1 and the F2 and see how the comparison looks um I have not done a Recon of the neighborhood to see if that garage is included in floor one or excluded in floor one but I can certainly take that deeper dive if that gives board some comfort um any questions from the board yeah um that's again maybe for the AR was going to step up anyhow before we yield yeah see questions for Mr M any really for the anyone in the audience have question for Mr McDon while okay comments always the end there is so and we need more on the second floor than we do on the first floor um so there's about 170 square feet of inefficiency in that problem so in order to get the back of the house to stack and to keep it in the back we needed another 170 square fet then we tried to see what we could do about reducing and one of the things that work is this is the back of the house this is don't have that you don't have that okay A7 so what was submitted to the board was was what because I know we got this one A1 sheet right I right which I just yeah that's all I was that was that's the zoning faction this was done today oh okay all right so7 and and Tom please identify what that is please Sur renderings of as of right scheme and the scheme proposed just before you go any further Rob can we just confirm that we're all looking at the revision date of January 1 January 4th hold on no no hold on a second so A5 A5 has a revision date of January 4th 2024 called revision 4 it called resubmission four yes we submission four it has revision 0 one two three four so that's that was A5 and then A6 was a law comparison table um utiliz ing the calculations for 20 clemont based on correct and now we're up to A7 which are renderings as of of as of right schemes and the scheme proposed okay yes that's correct so this is the scheme we are trying to get approval for the B bottom left bottom left um two story Edition on the back and uh sematic space above it it's compact it's in the back the front stays the same more or less except for a hip in the a little hip up in the roof because it got deeper on this side as of right what we did we took a look at making this kitchen as small as we could and then in order to come come up with a more reasonable layout for the Upper Floor we ended up coming forward on the front and then we took that 170 sare fet we were looking for and put it in the end um so that's and then the reason we don't want to do that this AA which is street views of property and on this one this is the existing house this is the proposed house that's the as of right house the proposed house more or less matches the street Roes parallel to the street two stories this is a single story piece of that house but well it's one and a half the proposal has the same thing Roes paralleling all the way along the street this one fits right in there Second Story that tracks across and the first story to is facing facing the street um and this is the one that requires nothing no you say requires nothing as far as setbacks as far as variant so your F's tight on that the f is tight on that it's it's zero there's more in the Attic but in then it's still not it's not F it's not more than 50% of the and it's not more than 50% of the second floor the front sitb back actually in this particular house came out to be three feet better than the three houses on either side so it has 3 fet of front space to deal with we didn't use it we just went up to the existing front of the garage on that and so it conforms in terms of front setback in terms of area zoning area grow schooler area and um and the height to sitb back is no longer an issue because the roof slops away from the the setback line um but we really want to do this not because there's the extra 170 square feet but because it takes the bulk of the building puts it in the backyard so it doesn't affect the streetcap and should make everybody a lot happier the um the master plan one of the fundamental things that made it through five rewrites is that the goal of the master plan and the zoning ordinance is to protect the character of established neighborhoods which is exactly what we're trying to do here okay that's it any questions for if we don't approve the second version you'll just go ahead with the third one in all likelihood yeah and the third one that meets the the height as well the third one meets the height looking at it looks enormous it's 32 feet the houses there probably only about 28 exactly in comparison well especially next door next door really St but great right um question for you I can understand the difficulty of trying to add under this house M house to begin with it's very small and modest you're trying to make it more livable the only thing that bothers me with the proposed you know the F bothers me but the the notch in the roof is kind of strange that's something I'm not used to seeing and you did that because because the depth increases on the back of this house go back just need more roof and it is I mean it would add massing if you took it all the way across would that affect your need for variances I well then you'd end up with this long rear roof which cut out looks which generally looks silly I mean that's a stylistic comment anyway thank you any questions just one question so so I'm confused with this bottommost plan yes uh which is the alternative plan as I understand is that also for f or that qualifies for f that meets all the requirement that meets all the requirements no are is required thank you any other questions any questions from the audience any comments from the audience regarding application can I close the public motion uh board members I'm just GNA remind theard is that it's a F4 Varian fores five for votes so need to have at least five out of seven we don't have seven voting members we don't how many voting members we have [Music] we only have I think five to V on this eligible Joseph Gary Regina Jessica Craig because Amy's not here shandrew missed the first meeting in April um and Priscilla missed the December 18th meeting yeah we did a little no one CAU up and read to my knowledge Jessica was the Jessica missed a meeting in April but listen to okay motion open the public portion of the meeting so second all in favor I I may I approach Mr chair yes so I understand the board has five members so we we told our our applicant the consequences the OD odds are now 100% um the applicant wants to proceed if the applicant doesn't get the affirmative vote you'll just do the one as of right sounds good those both portion uh board members your thoughts we go then um so you know um I think after nipping and tucking and doing on this project uh I think come to uh a lot more reasonable ask and I think the lot can accommodate it from a uh you know C2 perspective so uh I I don't love the the style sorry D4 perspective yeah on this case uh I you know I don't I don't love the aesthetic but I get it I mean there's only so much you can do with that so um I would uh I would tend to support what's being uh asked for here yeah I agree with that I think um it's bit different um than than perhaps I would prefer but I think that you know there's been sufficient accommodation and I think the what's being done with the back porch I think is helpful um and so overall I would be supportive with the application I'll go um I agree with all of the comments my colleages had have made um I can see you put in a lot of effort it was difficult case and challenging I don't think we G terribly overboard the third option really does look massive when I think that would affect the Aesthetics of the neighborhood the only thing that bothers me is that notch in the roof and I would wonder if you could make like a separation somehow to make it look like it was intentional rather like two separate roofs rather than one being but that's I would defer to your expertise on that but I would be in favor of this application building on what Regina said the third option or the one that you has a bright I think the neighborhood would be shocked I think that's why it was presented to us that way um I think the second one looks better for the Neighbors I wish there were neighbors here to take a look at it and see what they say and weigh in on it given the choice to save them from something that might as a right just be something that they would probably hate forever I would probably agree with it for no other reason than extortion I I didn't want to present it it's not my intention but I mean part is closed more um we'll break it down to two separate votes uh first starting with the floor are ratio do have a motion on that a second second Joseph Coffield yes Rosen yes eug Tru yes Jessica GL yes yes uh next up we have the uh variant for side yard side setback sorry 18 exess 18 F night do I have a motion on that one second second thank you Joseph corfield yes Gary Rosen yes would you it yes plan yes yes good luck with project I will next up we are going to go to calendar 39 5223 on 99 Sagar give testimony on the board no correct good evening councelor good evening happy New Year if anyone's here on this case you want to move down feel free to chairman members of the board Richard skolnick on behalf of the applicants Naran and ARA hegi as you mentioned this application concerns 99 Sagamore Road it's block 101 lot 11 on the tax maps we have a very unique property with some significant development challenges my client desire to reconstruct their home essentially in the same location where it now exists they purchase the house back in 2011 they lived there for 10 years unfortunately during covid they had to move out because of some serious mold issues with multiple family members becoming ill and they've been out of the house since November 20120 around three years the proposed structure itself meets all bulk standards so we don't have those sorts of variances tonight we have height meets height setback F and coverage we submitted the application with four variances as Mr Keller will explain we've been able to remove one of the variances related to alterations within five feet of a property line there are two additional variances related to retaining walls I'll suggest that those are relatively minor in nature and there's a third remaining variance dealing with the steep slopes the numbers are large but we're GNA ask your patience as we go through the numbers uh the proposal submitted by Mr Keller's office has a steep slope disturbance of 16,100 square fee with only 1,000 uh permitted but uh at least twoth thirds of that uh disturbance involves uh the front and side of the buildings and these were not pristine slopes these were slopes that had been previously Disturbed and your ordinance itself recognizes actually an exception when there's Redevelopment when there's Redevelopment the definition is not clear but obviously the intent uh of the ordinance itself uh discusses pristine slopes versus uh sto slopes that have been created by prior development so a substantial portion of what we're proposing uh involves previously Disturbed areas there's also about 4300 square feet of proposed disturbance in the rear yard and we'll go through that and explain why we think that disturbance makes sense to construct storm water management uh we'll talk about why we think that's reasonable under the circumstances so we're uh absolutely clear the purpose of the disturbance is not to create a lawn area or a pool area or a flat Pao area The Proposal is to reconstruct a building and produce a a safe driveway access because of uh the Reconstruction of the house and an existing driveway that has severe slopes unsafe slopes up to 23% in terms of our lineup uh chairman I'm gonna have brief comments on the site history from my client and Oran hegy we're gonna put Mr Keller on to go over existing site conditions sort of do the engineering testimony but then we'll put the architect on for a few minutes we'll put the landscape architect on because I want to see the I want the board to see the care that's been taken on this uh project after they're done we'll put Mr Keller back on for the planning testimony um each of the witnesses is going to talk about uh the the significant process uh that went into the design and why they think it's a a reasonable proposal given the topography storm warer management and the considerations underlying that steep slope wance that's the the main issue we have to contend with so uh would that chairman if I can bring your uh bring your first witness up please and uh please have them give credentials the first witness is going to be my client he doesn't have those credentials but just a little background on how they got there so if we can have them sworn in just ra do you swear from the testimony about to give in tonight's proceeding be the truth whole truth nothing but the truth yes sir your name for the record spelling your name Nan n a r a y a n last name h e g d e okay Mr Hy could you tell the board in your own words uh how we got here and a little bit about the history of this site sure uh my name is Norine heg and thank you for the opportunity to present our plan to you uh we moved into 99 Sagamore in 2011 we lived there for almost 10 years and towards the after about six years we started getting house sick I didn't know what it was in the beginning but by the time we figured it out November 2020 a kids were sick and we figured out it was mold so we moved out of the house uh and then you know wanted to get it remediated we hired professional remediators tried to get it remediated um it was expensive got it done but then we we tested it it didn't work uh we were at a point where we didn't have much of a choice but to rep built the house uh but when we looked at the topography the lack of access to the house it was pretty daunting so we realized we needed a full team to make this happen so you got Marvin Rich uh and Brian um people who not only had expertise but knew the local topography knew the local soil and all that stuff took us a year and a half and our goal was fivefold one try and reuse uh as much of the foundation as possible two was to build a house that was uh in sync in harmony with the landscape and the neighborhood three have safe access to the house four was uh do site work so we can manage storm water and rain water coming down the hill so we never have water penetration issues again and accomplish all these with a light touch to the site as light as possible and it took us about a year and a half to come up with a plan and um that's this the plan we're going to present we were going to present on December 4th um I I went out and tried and talked to every one of my immediate neighbors um starting in November um couple days before before we were up for presentation here one of the neighbors came up came to us and said they had they wanted to had concerns and if you could push out the meeting and we did to uh January 22nd and over the last few weeks we've been working with her and Hare uh to a lawyer and her engineer uh and she we went through stuff all the stuff all our project with her and she's not objecting so we thought it was worthwhile uh effort U but so here we are uh we've lived in the community for 13 years we like it here we want to stay here uh we want to agent place and we didn't have much choice about rebuilding the house or not but we really like the plan and we hope uh you agree that it makes sense thank you thank you we'll call Richard Keller an expert in the fields of civil engineering and professional planning if I can have them sworn you swear from testimony about to give in tonight's proceeding to the truth all truth under the truth yes I do name for the record Richard Keller k e l l e r Mr Keller have you lost your credentials since whenever the last time you testified before this board is no I have not I am still a licensed civil engineer um and planner in the state of New Jersey as an engineer since 1989 planner since 1990 um I have a Bachelor of Science in civil engineering with a concentration in water resources and environmental engineering and that is from ruus University and I also have a master's in architecture with a concentration in urban planning and Design and that is from the New Jersey Institute of Technology where I also taught for approximately 11 years I uh I have appeared before this board approximately 110 boards for the state of New Jersey and I've been retained as a planning consultant to the uh to the burough of Caldwell Board of adjustment and for three years I was the planning board and board of adjustment engineer to the uh to Long Hill Township my licenses are still in good effect I am familiar with the neighborhood because I spent 25 years living within about 200 feet of the site on syamore road so I'm certainly familiar with the site um both in terms of the existing topography existing lay of the land as well as what we're proposing tonight okay chairman I'll submit Mr Keller tonight as an expert in the field of both engineering and planning accepted please receed okay we appreciate that and so rich we're going to break the testimony down to the existing conditions and some of the engineering issues and sort of take a break uh give you a chance to recoup you know you'll come back although I take it some of the testimony May bleed into the is so yeah I'm happy to answer questions and obviously um some of the the more particular planning testimon will come later I also apologize to the board members I put the boards behind you so that um we have some neighbors here who are concerned I want to make sure they I have those moved up so I want them to see it okay I I thought they could turn around but I can no you guys want to sit here can if you want it's up to you okay let us know if you want to get close what I'll do is I'll put one of them [Music] here chairman just give us a second you're okay right just one second okay Rich you're going to f out the sheet numbers and if it's not exactly in the plan set we're going to remark it as usual okay yep so I'm starting off with the application package this is the hey residence variance application plot plan and Zoning analysis which is sheet one uh 82 20222 which is actually the Bas graphic and title survey also dated 81202 revised through 831 2023 ISU part of the board of adjustment application package the um and then I will go I will have some exhibits um but the uh the property itself we start with the survey is located on the North actually we're going to call it the uh the west side it's actually the northwest side of Sagamore Road I think since New York City's that way we're just going to call that the West Side um it's on the uphill side of Sagamore Road uh between Maple which is the next street uh to the South or to the to the to the left and Mountain Avenue which is next street to the right said I indicate I live right on the corner there for about 25 years um the uh the property is uh by the way sagore Road um sit it runs parallel with Wyoming Avenue about 750 feet to the West uh and an elevation about 122 ft higher it's actually interesting because it actually has a different microclimate you can get 3 in of snow up here and not have any snow on Wyoming Avenue so it's and and since you're tucked into the mountain uh it really does have a different climate up there uh Maple Street uh Maple Mountain Avenue and maple both are existing public streets with uh grades of about 17% um so they're at the upper end of what we consider to be safe driveways uh safe roads um again pulling my driveway for all those times I can attest to that um to the rear of the property along with all the other properties on the west side of Sagamore road is the South Mountain reservation 2200 Acres behind us essentially with nothing on it I'll have an exhibit later that shows where the closest road is and how the drainage comes down through that reservation and through our property um the property itself is 173 ft wide an average of 305 ft deep uh contains uh I think it was 3851 ft which is about 874 Acres the property is wholly located in the R4 residential Zone where 100 foot wide Lots with a minimum of 29,000 squ feet are required so we are considerably wider than required by code and we're not just under not quite two times the size required for the R4 Zone I would point out the properties runting on Sagamore are the only properties in mil that are located in the R4 Zone Milburn primarily being an R56 um Zone it's the only street that is uh R R4 and if you've had the if you hadn't never had the opportunity or hadn't been up to sore Road recently or had an opportunity to come up for this uh for this application it is a unique Street within the community it's one of the two streets that I consider to be almost uh rural um that and uh and the um the Westerly side of Hemlock um but it's uh it it's uh besides having views of New York and nestled into the 2200 acre reservation uh it's treelined um it's got steep slopes above steep slopes below uh but it really does have more of a rural fear it's very different than most of the rest of the Town including the uh the oldest parts of shore Hills um it actually uh and the development on this road um was sporadic much of the lower part uh the lower streets the tree Street that come up Pine Maple Mountain Etc then mountain and uh and Clinton we're developed sporadically the Wyoming land company went bankrupt so a lot of stuff was developed later but syamore Road um has development uh house next to us according to tax RS was built in 1934 house to the right of us uh I think the owner from both properties are here that was built in 1875 um there's a Teddy Roosevelt had a hunting Cottage um further up in Maplewood along Sagamore um it's got some old development and then it was interspersed with um a lot of modern houses like I built in the 50s and 60s such as the house we have here I'll show you some pictures in a second the property is it does have an existing two-car garage and what looks like a garage building and if you're familiar with saging Road there are some garages that sit close to the street to to mitigate the height but actually that had the remains of what we think was a boiler in it we think it was probably to heat the driveway which is very steep uh two-car Stone garage also predates the the current house and probably goes back to the 1800s uh we have no no uh no concrete evidence of the Providence but the house itself that sits there today uh was built in uh 1962 and I think the architect can discuss a little of that as is common and I'll show a section in a minute when they created a to create a level pad um you surmise that um when they put Sagamore Road in they probably held the elevation along the center line of Sagamore uh they didn't want to raise it up any higher um because Mountain Avenue and the surrounding streets were as high as 17% they wouldn't want to lower it any because it would make it hard to get into the sight so most likely the center line the way we develop it if we were do these days which is you know the same way they would have done it back then just without computers is you would hold the center line of the road and you would then cut the road in cutting on the one side filling on the other side uh to create a road and then uh when they built the house they leveled off a driveway area um and created a level pad they created a level pad in that area by pushing slopes in the front making them steeper by carving into the back making it much steeper in the back to create a level pad in the middle so by our estimates as well as the landscape architect who's looked at the tree inventory um pretty much everything from I'll have another exib second from um where we show a dotted line and we show these traverses is here transverses here I come to the uh the grading plant pretty much everything from this U lawn path to the forward to the street are would represent areas of Prior disturbance and that's backed up by the fact that most of those trees are less than they're they're probably 40 to 60 years old some of them uh some of them much newer the oldest tree on the site in the forward area is actually a large Oak um and that we've worked tirelessly to try to save that one Oak and that that Oak is probably years old most of the rest of the trees are are newer in the front and uh the uh that driveway I would point out um if you uh we should have encouraged people to drive up it had the opportunity to do that recently it's about 10 foot between 10 foot and 10 foot2 Ines wide it sits between a four 4 foot and a six foot retaining wall as it curves up into the property 23% um it is by far the least safe and most daunting driveway I've ever driven on um and certainly um I think the fact thatan has had to replace the mirrors on his vehicle because he slid into the wall coming down it uh even in rain let on snow you don't you don't drive on the snow you park down uh in in sagore roads where you park when it snows but even in rain it's somewhat treacherous the um if I uh if I go to my first exhibit would be a photo board two photo boards actually so rich you want to Mark these as A1 and A2 I will and for the record let us let us know what you're gonna call that TI photo board one and photo board two photo board one and photo board two like um this would be A1 and it would be dated today 122 2024 and 82 same dat and so starting with photo board one um I would point out um the uh the photos were taken over three periods by my office and some of them were taken by the architect's office so anything taken in 2023 was taken by me personally and anything in 2022 was taken by the architect all of the photos do accurately represent the site or the surrounding properties as that exist today so if we go quickly through the photographs um here's looking um Northwest from the street you can see the uh you can see the top of the garage there's been a purle end to the top of it you can see just the top of the garage you can see a failing retaining wall that Nan's braver than I am because when you park well it's probably further back than you think but the r TI is is rotating um a driveway up top the garage that's behind it and there's bulk of the house and you can see there was when they when they carved into that create sore Road they created a wall a gutter and a wall that was between uh 3 and a half and 4 and A2 maybe as high as 5 feet tall that runs the entire length of the property photograph number two shows um how the wall frames either side of the uh of the driveway coming up to the garage and then you have to come up another 16 feet to get up to the main level of the house what looks like it might have been a garage at some point facing Sagamore now ringed by a road and it's old than the existing house that's where there's remnant of what we think is a boiler in there to uh presumably to heat the driveway which is the way they would have done it back then um photograph number three is then coming up that driveway you can see the retaining wall on the left side gets to be close to 5 feet four feet on the right it gets almost six feet tall and you've only got 10 foot distance between the two standard traffic lane on the highway is 12 feet wide um a parking space is 9 ft so you've really got barely more than a parking space but you're also curving and going up going up the the driveway uh this is taken from me in my car and driving back down I can't see the wheel on either side um to see where the where the driveway is so you just inch down and I can see certainly um in in inclement weather it would certainly be easy to to slide uh into the uh into the wall bu cars being about 7 to seven and2 ft that leaves you only 2 and 1/2 ft or 1 foot three in on either side and the mirror out a little bit so it's very tight and very narrow um it was adventurous even in the 60s when it was built it may preate that we're not sure and then finally photograph number four shows when you get to the driveway here's I'm at the driveway level here's where you start coming up 16 feet of stairs to get up to the to the first livable level habitable level of the house house existing on two levels this being the main entrance and the Sun and area o right the um which you want to just go over that concept one more time about where the current driveway ends compared to the garage yeah and I'll show that in a section in a moment but if we go to the uh to go back to that survey for one second you can see as you come up that driveway and you come from uh 392 up to 408 so you come up uh eight 16 feet of grade the show a short period into the garage the garage is at roughly elevation 410 um and the primary entrance of the home is at 426 so I have to come up a series of stairs over series stairs up into the house 26 there was an elevator that was put in by a prior owner somewhat illegally um and that got you up to the the top of the garage U there was a link but that link um also fostered mold that link was also illegal um but you basically it's the only property I know of on Sagamore Road and I and I've worked on extensive on four or five of them and I've certainly walked Walked the neighbor many time it's the only house I know of where the garage level is is still completely dissociated from any primary habitable space so there are some that come to the basement level this house was built primarily with a crawl space that's partly why the the heggies didn't notice the mold that was growing beneath them it was in a crawl space but uh and then you've got the main house so our uh our trick here in uh in developing I'll go through the photos in a second the trick here was to try to get use as much of the existing Foundation as possible um both for economic reasons and also since that that's where the primary flat zone and disturbance Zone was area um but then to get a driveway that would service the the house at or near you know one floor below not 16 feet but at least 10 foot below the existing house and the only way to get that addition of six feet um if we tried to use the existing driveway and just widen it we would come up we'd have to make another turn which me this house would have to slide back um 1520 feet into the steepest part of the house now that is artificially steep steepest part of the slope slope steepest part of the site so that is artificially created but we really did not want to move the house any further back because I'll show you in the section in a second that's where we've got our steeper slope so we tried to limit our our back Foundation to the existing uh wall uh we did come a couple feet forward because the average grade led us and we were able to get it um after working with um professionally was one of the most enjoyable uh working experiences I've had um in town because I was working with uh an award-winning architect uh multi- AIA award-winning architect and a landscape architect um who is also multi- award-winning and very respected and done a lot of work on similar sites and it was a it was a charette process where we would we would come up with designs the first thing Nan told me when he called me and I say well we'll try to use the existing driveway and he said I don't want to have any restrictions I have the most unsafe driveway I'm scared of it I don't I don't I want to start with a clean sheet and we'll try to conserve as much as possible but I I don't want to to put all this money rebuilding house not even knowing how we would build a house how you get contractors on the site um we don't want to spend all our time and money building a house want have an unsafe driveway so we started with a driveway on the right side coming up still the same problem and then we start we we started a couple schemes with on the left side we tried to one we tried to keep the existing structure below um after probably the third or fourth iteration um over many months we came up with we felt was the best solution which was to come up the property um and transverse and allow we needed to get the longest driveway we could and originally we had the driveway the garage um backed over to left side and and uh at one point we realized the best place for the garage was actually to move to the right think the architect will talk about that although we need no F variants we need no height variants we need no cover we're way under on coverage we on house we wanted the board to see the level of care that went into this house and recognize it's still an undersized house for this lot it was not this was again this steep slope disturbance is not part of a land grab we're not trying to create um additional patios or pool areas um what we really on rich now I'm I'm I'm G back to the uh to the variance application create to keep the existing Pockets where they were and create opportunities for Gardens and passive Recreation with no accessory structures in them so I'll just quickly uh finish off the photos I apologize for jumping around the um photo voter Board number two this is the uh this is the rear north side of the existing [Applause] Ro so here we're looking at the North Side existing build looking back at that bump here's the bump in the house you can see this is the north side you can see some of the mildew on the outside milde is not the problem it's the mold inside this is the lower level there's Stone wallet comes up and then you can see the steep slope that was created in the back this was all carved away to get the original construction site this up in here is um it's much deeper it's about 77% so it's much steeper area from the back there um the only thing that grows on it are uh invasive species that are almost impossible to eradicate um they're I forget the uh um Devil's walking stick it is nasty Thorns it's the only thing that'll grow into the side of that um that Rocky slope in there and that's one of the reasons we're looking to uh uh to rework the gravs back in there number seven uh we're now on the north side of the existing dwelling so now we're looking um back towards um what was a screen garage um when the Ryan moved out they uh they enclosed that to store um some screen patio but it was a it was a it was part of the house it was a fully screen with columns enclosed patio that um has since been enclosed fully with permits but that so they could store some uh some um some furniture Etc that was uh was weather resistant while they moved out the um photograph number eight this is looking from the north side looking at the Southern uh part of the back of the house and again you can see um the slope comes straight down into the back of the house and water pitches right against the hat so water was coming down on the foundation and penetrating in and filling up that crawl space and that's what created the mold problem in addition to the uh the connection on the front photograph number nine um this is the adjoining home um actually the owners are here tonight um this is the adjoining home that was built in about 1875 we think for the tax controlls and you can see um the prayer owner and they just re reinstalled the rope that um goes up to the house so when you're walking up from the driveway you can actually pull yourself up the Rope because it's a dangerous driveway and theirs is not nearly as steep as the 27% that n has and then further just to understand when I first moved into uh this property in 19 I moved on the into the street in uh 1998 1999 I think was either Floyd I drove home was the first time I saw the amount of water that comes off the reservation and it was rolling um loose Boulders 15inch Boulders were rolling across with the water um across from my old house is the is the res is the uh reservation as the water company they have a a 4 foot retaining wall water was just pouring over it um across the full 100 feet of water just 6 inches water is pouring down so you're picking up a lot of area above it I have photograph number 10 I went up to uh uh Rodney and Carol Nat Wong's house at uh uh I forget the exact I think this is 75 um Sagamore and this was that rain we had about three weeks ago where the the got very the bber river got very full um you can see the water just cascading like duns River Falls and Jamaica um comes through a backyard and it comes across now here's an area where prior development has taken away the gutter or keeping the gutter and they don't have any means of intercepting the water uh we will be doing that with a grate here so any any water that comes down our driveway will drop into a grate into the gutter that exists and into a the 24in storm sewer with good pitch that's right on the corner of our property so but this is the kind of water uh in photograph number 10 that you when it rains heavily you have a lot of water coming down off the reservation A3 is my site section is have a date Rich yep it is dated uh 11:15 2023 this is uh labeled existing a proposed site section and what I show um the uh the gray lines shows you the grading that we're doing so we're uh here's the existing U at at sagore Road um the property comes up we're cutting a new driveway in and then we're we're we're getting back because we're cutting that lower we're dropping the grade um we're doing we're coming back up with two uh two foot retaining walls um to get back up to the grade that's roughly equal to the top of the existing uh garage the existing garage the the uh purle will be taken off the fencing will be replaced with a living hedge up top there um to soften that but we are looking to keep the existing garage because since we did not want to do that much excavation into the existing Trap Rock uh we're looking to use that for for Passive storage um and it's still with that included we're still way under a building coverage so the yellow line the red line is the um a the grade as it exists today and you can see that where this section is cut is right through the doorway um um at the front of the house so I'm sorry right through the doorway here at the front of the house we cut that section through the doorway and you can see that um it happen so happens the sections are crossing so I've got a new driveway coming up this way well got this one coming up this way so our new driveway happens to coincide at that point fairly closely with the old driveway so this is our new driveway that's the old driveway that one's going that way this one's coming at us uh and you can see that um the grade uh in the front is virtually the same although we are doing some disturbance and we' we've counted that we've been very conservative in our estimates of numbers to our maybe to our detriment but uh and you can see that we uh we are regularizing that grade in there to create a flatter air plattel in the front in the back um where that existing grade comes down very steeply and in we're coming back uh 10 15 feet off the house we're putting a seat wall at 2 feet high and then we step back um plateaus um with two foot and and you'll notice we're not cutting into the into the Trap Rock at this point the red line being interesting uh grade we're actually adding in we're creating flatter plateaus for a couple of reasons one is that it will allow us to slow the water down because the flatter the slope the slower the water will run and also we're doing some lateral grading to to uh direct water that does come down into the site into inlets that are going to be placed and bring the water around the house rather than into the basement or into the house itself um as you move further back then um you'll see the yellow line is what we estimate from the center line back up to uh the point where we're proposing a storm water intercept and access point um that we think was the existing grade and that makes sense because that grade up above it is virtually the same this is about 23% I believe it is yeah so this yellow line we think is the pre-existing grade from the sore Road has developed that's the yellow line comes 23% continues up at 23 to 25% up into the reservation so all of this area in the front we think was an area of Prior disturbance the uh the second area was also an area prior disturbance on either side of the of the house and then finally where we're proposing two storm water in two storm water intercepts um we have another area where we're looking to intercept Waters that comes down the hill and create opportunity for drainage um drainage to come in there pick it up in inlets and take it around out in the front where we'll provide some detention and ultimately discharge it into the St Into the Storm stord pipe U that's in sagore road so I think this is uh this helps to see like the upper access path which is okay Rich do you have the chart with the numbers you want to do that the bort will bear with us we know there's some complications here but we wanted to sort of talk about uh the uh square feet the variants you've been able to eliminate and so on Rich to get a little more granular all right corresponding to uh okay A4 what are we going to call this a four is inventory of steep slope disturbance and does it have a date it does have a date it is dated today I believe 123 2024 and on this we've broken down that's tomorrow isn't it 22 did I say 22 we said 23 it is 22 thank you it is 22 getting ahead of myself Steve they'll think Mr s made a mistake that's not possible so um yeah it should be it's 122 200 so there was 16,000 yeah we took a very conservative view we advertised 16,000 of disturbance I'd like you to break that down to the different areas where uh where we able to reduce with eliminating the one variant and where where do the numbers come from in terms of the site conditions and what you're trying to accomplish okay this will be exhibit A5 we got to get this a name too what are you gonna call this want to give it to your to the neighbors over there this is the uh Hey application steep slope disturbance by area so we'll have A5 steep slope disturbance by area okay is it dated on there it's not dated on there but I'll put today's date on okay steep slope disturbance by area that's 85 so corresponding to the uh grading plan we broke the areas down um into uh into discrete areas the first thing we did is um we recognized we met with the neighbor next door to the left they were very concerned because we were proposing I think they're very concerned about everything but um and they'll certainly tell you that but they were also concerned because we were planning on doing some grading and one of the variances we were requested was to do some grading within five feet of the property lines we took a look at that we were um we were doing it because it was kind of easy and natural but we realized we can pull that in so we were able to these red areas represent areas where we can pull back the grading and eliminate uh any steep slope disturbance in eliminate uh steep slope disturbance in those areas so uh right off the back we took off um the red area which is 55 Square ft of of slopes we also take a look and we realized we were being kind of conservative because there is a pocket uh in the center here uh that's still the old shading that we're able to take we realized we weren't disturbing that we had indicated we were but we are not disturbing that so that took another uh 5 um 34 Square ft of steep slope disturbance off of off the the uh the chart so um just to quickly go through then the uh and I'll then I'll talk about this number these numbers here so the RNG area in the front is the area that we're disturbing in order to create a safe driveway um we can't just carb a driveway you've got to get back up to grade we don't want to have 8 10 foot retaining walls so you Terrace it terracing slows the water down we do it in two foot uh two foot lifts there are a couple areas where the walls because we're tying into some existing areas there are a couple of walls areas where the walls get a little higher than two feet so we did notice for a variance for that so how much you said 6500 for the front so in in the front area um hold on sure this is right the uh take your time rich Let's get the numbers right y so we started with about 16,000 you had testified that if you eliminate the variance with the grading next to the property that's 515 square fet and then there's another 534 that you calculated that's not really being disturbed so that's about a thousand off correct that's not NE my question hold on let me make sure my number well what I was gonna say before one second before we get to the question so we're looking at what is this now A6 this chart yep here so I think it was A5 is it A5 A5 slope disturbance correct yeah5 all right so let's let's correlate this right so why don't we correlate each area it's a little hard to see from here to the different colored areas I think that would help the public as well as the board members yep so um correct all right so area so if we look at the um the uh disturbance by area there were two reductions we indicated on the front first one's orange correct just so area one is orange yeah let's do the colors first and then you can go through the area one is Orange area two is green so orange is the first area two okay area three is the purple and area four is the yellow okay so uh as submitted um before we took off these two little tabs on either side we had 678 18 we reduced it by um the these two sections reduced it by 212 and took us down to 656 which is 17% of the total property area it's about 43% of the of the steep slopes that we're proposing to disturb and of the total steep slope inventory it represents 26.7% and so rich the 6506 you're uh making the contention that that area in front was previously Disturbed to build a house in the first place in the street um yeah I I in my estimate based upon the site section I think everything was Disturbed back to about 170 uh five feet deep in the property so everything forward right behind house is that very steep section where they carved out to create the back I think both the green and the yellow area repres or the orange area represent areas of Prior disturbance on this property they that's both by looking at the grades extending the existing slopes and looking at the tree the age of the trees on that property what do green and orange total to approximately so the green and orange um are roughly [Music] 10,500 10 thou uh 10,500 okay so when we add up orange green purple and yellow that's your gross amount not including the thousand square feet that you're given for the Orin correct right so I'm I'm up at 15052 so I reduced it original application was submitted with 16,101 right we''ve reduced it to 15,520 square feet is permitted so we are our variance 16052 is technically being disturbed but 1552 is outside no no no 15 15052 is what's beinged right okay so 15 okay got it I see yeah the th so I did not take the Thousand off so that's what we're disturbing I'm allowed of thousand so the extent of the variance is 14052 got it okay we' talked for S um with regard to the existing driveway looks like he's yep go with regard to the existing driver way just explain since we're still on the orange what's happening with that area all right so the way our ordinance is written is that um disturbance is um considered when you move Rock move soil move plants do any kind of changes what's Exempted from steep slopes are are what they call um Redevelopment Redevelopment and Redevelopment is very strictly defined so it's not you'd think that well this whole area is redeveloped but the way our ordinance defines Redevelopment it specifically says it has to have a structure on so areas that have a structure so even though this driveway is at 27% because it has an existing structure on it it's not considered seep slopes well it says structure or other improvements structure or other improvements little vague yeah and and so the way that it's been interpreted is if I have lawn area even if it's new longer it's not another structure it's not another development so the way we we in our ordinance we can't get any credit for the fact that um everything tells me professionally that everything forward of the purple line is an area of Prior disturbance to construct the original home but so what's happening in the real world with regard to that existing driveway uh it'll be well it'll be actually um not exactly filled in but we will have um we will have a little bit of a of a slope to get um to pull a wagon up or to to pull a lawn mower up into that area but essentially that that entire um swath of existing driveway is being filled in curb cuts the walls are the walls are coming down curb cuts out the curb cut yeah we're moving the curb to a new curb we're moving it further to the south from the right to the left from the right to the left correct to get the grve so to get the grade that could bring up a fire truck so again I've got this is where my existing driveway is I'm pulling this down um some Center Line to Center Line and pulling it about 55t further to the left and that will allow me to get the longest run that I can to get up to this because I you know slope is rise over run the longer the run I need to have as long a driveway as I can get to get a safe driveway at 15% or less coming up into the site to access the driveway and access really the the basement layer so we're creating a basement layer uh uh where the where the garage is and then from there you'll come up into the main house which goes back to uh a small portion of the house has a basement but most of the house goes back to that slab on Gray over the existing foundation so that area be able to access I'm sorry you're going to be able to access the existing and to be preserved original uh garage yeah we'd like to will not have vehicular axis any longer there is a there's a lawn path that will create to come up into that area so you can pull small wagon up there but the idea is this will no longer serve uh Vehicles the existing failing retaining wall that I showed you in the photos that'll be removed and we'll be replacing with a series of of stone um one of the nice things about this area is that trap rock is actually can be ripped laterally and it can be used uh for Boulder walls and since the base is very stable uh it lends itself well there's a number of properties further up S where where the entire walls are made with Native Rock and so give a little preview so the uh so yeah that driveway will completely go away and because we're cutting in and I'm now down at this layer and I'm trying to get up six feet higher than the existing garage so I can have um so I can have someone come into the house and enter into the shelter part rather than having to come up uh 16 feet of stairs into the house they come into the the garage which is uh which is now been uh is oriented facing to the north you'll come up the driveway into the garage there a turn out or second parking area in the sidey yard so when guests come they don't have to walk up the 15% there is a path that's been created off of uh sagore Road for uh people to walk up onto the site without the need for a rope uh and then turn and come up the rest of the driveway and access the the primary entrance where where most people will come there is still a door to the front but the primary entrance has now been moved on to the north side of the house so there there's a the architect will go over this there's a a garage entrance and then you can uh either come in the garage and then go up uh in through the elevator stairs up into the main level or for people who come to the site they can also get out of their car come up a series of stairs and come in the primary entrance into the into the entry vestibule which again is now facing to the north of the site so it was uh again it was an an iterative operation with how can we get the longest driveway to get up to be one foot below the one floor below the existing house uh and make it all exen make it all comply with coverage um and make it an attractive and modest home set in the woods so rich the orange disturbance that's about 6,500 according to the Chart 656 okay and then the disturbance in the green area right why do you wanted talk about the the numbers but and then why why do you need to disturb that okay so again Orange area for safety and constructibility by the way I would point out on the existing survey um it becomes pretty clear to us that when this house was constructed um it was most likely constructed from the neighboring house uh to the right 933 um 93 um because if you look at it you can see there's a level coming off of their driveway off of the driveway there's a level area that was cut to get access to the site so we pretty much surmise if you if you walk up there you can almost see it's it's a level area that you can see there an ACC inside not not being able to build the house anywhere from the neighbor's property um the orange area is both we need to create a construction road up into the site and then we also need to make sure it's safe for the for the owners that's landcape architect whispered that like would not be ability of a fire truck to get up there look a fire truck uh will probably not pull up there let's be honest with you um but uh but and and most but you can get an emergency view you can get an ambulance up there it's now safe to get an ambulance up there you cannot fit one of our Milburn ambulances up that existing driveway there's no way um but we will able to pull an ambulance up into that area um firet truck would never go up there even though it's it's 15% they could do it I hear them chugging up seven up 17% sacer all the time but um they would fight any fire from the street um where there's good visibility the uh the the green area the purpose of that as we indicate is uh steep uh slope stabilization to slow runoff to move water around the dwelling for pickup and inlets and it creates stable planting areas so if you look this green area so this is where it's the steepest we've pushed back a seat wall and then we've done a series of walls that um both help to to create flatter panels in inside of that but also allow us to bring the water around the outside where we can pick it up in strategically place inlets within there as it comes down through these areas and then we can get that to the front to an area with a potential area for drywall here or potential area for dry wells in here um in these areas if we don't get good perk we actually do systems that are solid containers and we we drain them out of the bottom with a meter flow so we will be able to meet the uh the requirements of the ordinance and provide detention um but that would be in the front but these if you look and you see the way that you can almost see the way that these uh walled areas have been created to allow water to Cascade down and rather than just hitting in the back of the house we're directing them around laterally around the house where we can then pick them up and uh create the front part of that is also just to get that driveway in on the right side um as well if you get a stable area so that we're not just turning in you got an area to back you don't have to back up the driveway have an area to back out and then go back out whether it's the owners or an ambulance Etc there's an area for a turnout and come back down the hill okay and Bri it's your contention that the green area was also previously to start why why do you say that well again if we if we looked at that section you can see um it was really steep behind the existing house um and that's because when they created a level pad they cut in and cut in here and created something was 77% keep in mind 100% is 45 degrees um I have a cut out but I won't show it here right now um but the uh so when they pushed soil in the front and they cut soil in the back we think that they all are there area one and area two are all in areas that are estimated areas of previous deep so disturbance okay now the board had an application a couple months ago where it expressed the concern when somebody came for a steep slow P they're trying to make a bigger backyard than they really bargain for a flatter area you know the concern is the property just didn't warrant it and and and the board's obviously concerned with the Integrity of the ordinance and the reasons behind it is there any effort and anything happening in that regard uh here no clearly we're not trying to create a level backyard for a pool or for accessory structures or play structures we're exploiting the existing lawn areas that are on either side of the existing dwelling as passive Gardens so they'll be able to look from the house onto those areas they'll be able to go out and ambulate there's no patios in them um but uh we did purposely did this is not a land grab either to create a bigger house or to uh to create areas of uh you know when somebody and I'll get to these areas in a second um guys are they going to put a pool up there it's like no there's no pool going on the property and if we did any more disturbance we'd come back for a variant but I'll talk about the nature of those again there's no land grab here this is really about getting a house that manages the water that comes off that road similar to what I showed you on 75 on on 75 Sagamore that rushes in against the back of the house cools against the foundation and gets under the house so we're looking at using this to basically bifurcate that water uh down around and out and into the St storm Source system that sits uh in the front left corner of our property there an existing am right there areas of detention are available and then finally purple now the purple is purple is you got it at 2475 square feet out of the 15,000 that disturbance so what do you want purple purle I think it would be helpful to explain to the board and the public what the current storm water management system is for this property if any um the current storm water um management system is there are no visible inlets on the site the water runs to the back of the house um the grade is very high up on the house a lot of it runs down along the foundation um surprisingly there was no visible water unlike 75 on the day we had that burst of water there was no visible water pouring off this site um so a lot of it gets trapped and make come underneath the existing house so that's a a lot of the reason why because you're still getting um 280 feet of water coming off from from press drive into the back of this property and so there's there's essentially nothing except there is a well defined gutter along the street deep gutter it's kind of a pain to park because you put your wheels in and you think you're going to catch the bottom of your car uh there's a gutter that we're going to maintain and then over that gutter we're going to put a grape so that any water and we'll have Inlet along the driveway as well any water that does come down will drop into that through the gra into the um into the existing um Swale and that discharges into right here there is a storm water inlet and that sits over a 24 inch uh reinforced concrete pipe that has very good pitch so it's got excellent capacity so essentially we're taking a site that has no discernable storm water management other than keeping it in the crawl space to Great mold and we creating a way of getting rid of that with no danger to the neighbors um and uh and no adverse impacts on the on the town storm sources there's one when we move in we put in one pipe from here inside okay because we got a lot of water here so there has been some makeshift drainage but not much makeshift drainage so the purple area is the next area and I have to apologize over the summer I had some heavy metal poisoning issues and I I was not in the office when this went out um and so my guys did a great job and their numbers were basically correct but um we call this a lawn path rear access and it's not simply for rear access it it does allow access and it's been shown to weave up where where trees aren but we really thought of it as two drainage intercepts um and yes we made it wide enough so um you know there's a number of of ash trees on the site that uh that uh the client had to have taken down because they were dying and the the tree company said we can't take them out you got to leave them there because we have no way to physically pull them down get them down and so um they just fell them I guess that's the that's the uh attitude of the reservation that if it it should just Decay naturally over time but not what most home owners want to do so um while there was a an axis component the primary purpose of the purple area is what we're calling the middle um uh middle drainage intercept so it's roughly middle of the backyard and what we've done is on the section you'll see that's an area where we can um just call out Bo so I'll go back I'm leaving uh a A4 and going back to uh A3 for a second that middle drainage intercept is basically where we picked up um with a wall we picked up that little little um path area to allow a water to come down it'll break at that point we get some inlets in there and intercept any water that comes down and then the upper so that correspond responds to the purple area and that is uh total of uh reduced area 2475 after we took out actually there was there was only one little section so that really um only lost 22 square feet so that's 2475 is the purple area and then we've got an upper drainage intercept so that makes a curve and comes up and again carefully place so it doesn't disturb any the mature trees on the site save possibly one um and that makes the curve and that yellow area represents 212 sare ft and so again if we go back to the section you'll see the idea is you've got 200 and some feet of water coming from Crest Drive down the slope we have the first intercept here which we create a little an intercept just the same way they with sore Road carve it on one section fill a little bit on the other and allows me to get some inlets along that path and then whatever bypasses that blows over it continues down gets the second drainage intercept and then if anything gets past that um besides being pitched laterally um it also is now coming down slopes that are basically three onone which is what Soil Conservation District says is manageable um without any kind of extra measures so we've created an area so anything that gets past that now comes down these areas um and it's at a much slower rate we've learned since you know rice patties in in in the 3 Century um the uh the in the in the actually the six 600s to 800s we've learned that terracing actually slows water down and so that's what we're doing here so anything that does get past the two drainage intercepts comes down and will come at a slower rate and then we can have some wall drainage at the bottom of the wall little back P of the wall we get some drainage there so all of this has been designed to intercept water that comes off the reservation similar what we showed you on 75 that is now getting down in along the foundation into the crawl space and and we're not sure where it goes it's not creating a problem on Sagamore but we know there's water coming down we see it we just don't know where it's going it's laying over on the back of the house down so that's the uh that is the fourth area of disturbance the uh The yellow section which we did indicate was 212 square feet of disturbance and so sorry go ahead sorry Richard on uh on sheet 85 yep that's where all the numbers are just to put it on we have orange now after the revision 6506 correct M okay and the green is 3969 for a total of 10,475 okay and then we have the middle drainage area that's purple that comes in at 2475 and the upper comes in at 2102 the yellow correct and that gets us the 15,2 so we've got the upper area um the uh the orange and the green which are what we considered areas of Prior disturbance them come those come in at 10475 and then we've got the drainage intercepts and drainage Management areas um part of that's there but we have the drainage intercepts and those are a total of 4577 and that gets up us up to the 15052 we appreciate the board's patience some complications but you're doing great well he's doing great I'm just I came up with the color scheme right the most important aspect little Gish on the color little Gish on the colors if you ask me but from was it the bunnies right the bunnies four bunnies that they had we appreciate this took a bit of your time everybody's Collective time so um you talk a lot Mr K about the about the inlet so um as an improvement to what is existing in terms of St Water Management um talk to us a little bit about you know soils to ensure that in fact everything's going to work the water is going to fall into the inlets and um and they will serve the purpose for which they're installed and also about maintenance whether it's dry Wells inlets Etc so that they don't overflow end up with leaves and then end up on neighboring properties well I I will say um we've learned how to build in seep slopes if we had these steep s Banes we wouldn't have San Francisco Pittsburgh any of the Greek Isles half of Rome wouldn't exist so we certainly know how to build and build safely and there are both within the town and Statewide there organiz G ations that are in place to ensure that so um as a matter of getting any building permit if this board were to approve the Varian as requested we would need to provide a gr a detailed grading and drainage plan it's also explicitly stated in the steep slope ordinance that we have to do that and it and it further reminds the engineer what they have to look for um we also need to uh file with salt Conservation District in areas of steep slopes they will regularly require that during the construction process we use double cell fence we use what's called super superal fence there are added measures to help um protect the site both during construction and after Construction in fact the state mandates that every town must have a steep slope ordinance some towns have gotten away with it um and they've gotten away with the quantification and they just require if you have an area that has a certain amount of seep slopes you need to produce a separate report that details how you're going to protect these surrounding properties uh both during and after the construction process so there's you know since the the there's nothing on this site um that tells me we can't drain it properly um we haven't done any perk tests my suspe is we won't get great perk up there um we didn't get great perk further down the road I've done I've worked on we did a pool at 75 we've done other grading plans I've worked on the Veron property up at 155 I think it is sorry 155 is down the road up at 53 I think it is 63 um we know we sometimes get surprising perk but most times we don't get good perk which case we don't design a system that require that uses infiltration we use us thing that holds it and then it uses a small orifice to control the flow out of that um detention system to make sure that we're meeting the town requirement that we don't increase the rate of runoff after development I think we only have about um 18870 square feet increase in impervious but our our mandate really was much more than just detaining for 1870 square feet our mandate from the owner is if I'm going to build a house I need to make sure sure I'm protective of myself and the neighborhood and the neighborhood was equally important and so um you know we designed things look you can if you don't maintain something long enough you can you can have things go wrong but actually on this area what's nice is because the all of these pitches are so steep a lot of these pipes are self-cleaning in a sense so the velocities are enough in them that they don't tend to pick up um debris that clogs the pipes they're selfcleaning gets it down to that 24-in pipe that 24-in pipe is set at a good pit because Sago roads at a good pitch I ride my bicycle up at all the time um it's a struggle but that means that you get excellent movement away of the water in that 24-in pipe which is a very large pipe um because it's picking up all the storm water and back in the 1870s through the 1950s they didn't provide on-site detention they didn't do drainage plans like we do now so um you have you have both a um a grading permit requirement it's reinforced in the steep slope um requirement and as part of of the as part of the grading permit you'll have to present a tree replacement plan and our tree replacement plan will actually not just not just give the required Replacements Brian has an extensive planting plan to rebuy the site uh and take advantage of the architecture get rid of the ash trees on the site which are dying um any other non-native abive species uh and hopefully we've done everything possible to save that large Oak Tree on the property so um I have no reason to believe um that property Carol and uh and Rodney say it Sate Wong I didn't do that because back then I said I didn't want to work for anybody within a couple hundred feet of my house and I realized um it wasn't a great drainage plan that kicked all that water down the road we could have done better and I decided especially with the team that Ryan put together I decided to break my rule and work within 200 fet of my house but I think that I have um I have no reason to believe that we can't create a a grading plan that will be maintainable uh and um efficient um efficacious and obviously um the board engineer I'm sorry the town engineer is going to be scrutinizing that the only thing I before I turn it over to the um I guess I should just quantify some of the other variants relief for required uh we've gone pretty exhaustively through the steep slope inventory um the site data table does show that we are well compliant we're actually under by 1870 square feet on um on lock coverage we're under by um I'm sorry we're under by 6,071 square feet on uh on Total Lock coverage we've only added that 18870 indicated before so we're well under unlock coverage we're well under our building coverage um 14% is permitted we're at 7% now we're going up to 8.75% so we're still under that by nearly 2,000 fet on the building coverage um we are compliant with the height it's really rare on these steep sites um it's often easy to meet the the height from average grade because the average grade comes higher where you often have a problem is meeting the low to high requirement so you're allowed 32 feet um from average grade but your lowest point to your highest point can't be any more 37 ft and on steep slope sites it's almost it's it's really rare when you don't need a variance for that but the architect kept the uh the floor Heights and the uh and the um the any perces on the roof down so we're fully compliant we're actually under by almost nine inches from low to high and we're actually under by um more than three and a half feet from average grade so the house certainly uh is fully conforming uh it's really an underdevelopment on the site certainly not a land grab um so in terms of the uh the other variance relief besides requiring um a deviation of 14,520 52 minus the thousand square foot that's permitted and I will point out this board has talked for a long time about changing about trying to get town to change this ordinance and tie it to a some lot area um but uh whether you have a 6,000 foot lot or you have a a two acre lot you're only allowed a thousand squarep disturbance we have a lot that's doubl the uh the size of required you're still required only allowed a th Square ft um the uh as indicated we need uh so in addition to the um the steep slope uh variance there is our sections um there are 12 conditions to the approval for a grading permit um in steep s areas and we don't comply with uh two of those one is that um there should will be a minimum uh distance between step retaining walls equal to the height of the highest wall so that means if you have a 3-ft wall you have to be three foot apart you have a 4ft wall four foot apart we actually um we have some walls that are four feet we're proposing to be only three feet apart we're bringing them closer together because it actually means less steep slope disturbance and in previous applications the township engineer has opined that that's not a problem it just means that when the walls get less than um less than the height apart they start to structurally interact and so they will look at make sure that we do structural calculations to indicate that those walls are stable so again we know how to build these walls and the your Township engineer will require that so there's the um there's the separation walls where four foot's required for four foot walls we're proposing three um four uh 4.75 is required for 4.7 foot high walls we're proposing two and that's actually areas in the front where we have an existing 4.5t wall and we time a wall into it so because we're tying a wall into it uh we deviate there's a couple areas where um where we bring walls together and we're just over we're not quite separated enough but we need to bring those walls together to get the height change so uh they only occur in a couple spaces but again we want to be very conservative make sure we request the variance for that um height of the retaining on the front yard and then lastly height of the retaining wall in the front yard we have an existing retaining wall That's 4 and A2 ft we're going to remove a part of it to allow for new curb cut we're going to fill in part of where the existing curb cut is um and then ties into leaves a gap where the where the old ball continues on the right side of that walk up so I've got a 4 foot and I've got a four and a half foot wall um I'm looking to rebuild that wall just as the same height um the rest of the walls in here are mostly uh two feet I did have a couple areas where they're uh three feet and um so we noticed um and I've got one area sorry so most most of these are 3 feet uh which would be the separation in non steep slope areas we um we have two we have uh these three foot uh the walls range between four and a half most of these are actually at um three feet we do have one area right up in the corner of the garage where two walls come together and those walls actually go up to about uh again close to four feet so those isolated areas where we violate the height in the front yard and then most of these walls again are three feet in height so that's uh SE section 69.6 really the rebuilding of a 4 foot 4.5 foot wall correct substantial part and then and then again to limit to Li to get back up to grade um and get a safe driveway uh we couldn't you know when you're so steep you can't go two feet out and two feet up you're chasing grade so the only way to do it was to come up three feet and then come back um the three feet and then uh and then have a slope of one foot between them the only way to otherwise if you me if you tried to meet the ordinance you'd never catch up to the existing grade so it's just required because it's just it's uh this area prior disturbance is steep enough you can't do it and and this is the way that it's been done up and down syamore um if you drive up in syamore you see routinely walls that are either higher than two feet or that are spaced less than uh three feet apart there just in terms of the topographic features you you have practical difficulties satisfying the strict requirements of the ordinance there yep and and believe it or not I'll I'll let the other you certainly answer questions but I'll uh I'll go to the proofs unless you want to do proofs now but I'll go to the proofs after we have the other two guys talk yeah I think so but I just wanted you know we're talking about the features y let's just touch for uh the last minute or two on any impacts that the neighbor from your perspective having having lived on this the neighbor to the left is here um the other neighbors I don't think here yeah here yeah you could talk about that so um in terms of um I know the neighbor to our left express some concerns because we were moving our driveway closer to theirs um and it's true but we are um there is no code requirement our driveway as it hits the RightWay line is still um is still some 22 23 ft from their property where we flare out at the curb um at the at the gutter line we're still roughly 15 uh 12 to 15 feet away um because we've allowed for car to come down and either make the hard left towards Maplewood or continue down towards downtown Milburn um but uh there's really no impact we're not we're not changing we we've taken off that notion of changing any grades within 5 ft of the property our drainage inlets will pick up and look people next door they have right next to their stairs they have an elaborate uh open gutter system where they channeling water down off that mountain to get it down um their house actually sits behind us and all of our water is now going to be um restricted from traveling onto their property because we're going to be putting inlets uh strategically placed around the property so in terms of drainage I see no negative impact their house is primarily uh sits above the existing garage and back somewhat um I see no negative impact um with the driveway being uh close to them um these are not there's not a lot of trips that are generated by a single family dwelling um there are driveways or some share driveways there are driveways throughout Sagamore um last one I'll do is A6 what we going to call this one A6 is annotated aerial photo um what I've done here is I've got our property in question in the center you can see next to an iPod it's a little hard to see but this is a photograph from March 3rd 2023 I have a dated today it was created today and what we did is we have the aerial photo to a scale of 1 inch equals 80 slightly screened uh so you can see the property lines and what we've indicated is um you can see where the houses are relative to one another and I've also gone through because that's why we like Zoom because you can zoom up um on on on board here but I went in very uh close and I was able to see where existing retaining walls are where areas of development where the tree stop and I was able to put on all of the limits of what I would perceive as the limit of disturbance on all the properties coming from 155 up to the Bur property at 63 and beyond that um and you can see that these are the house next to us um sits behind us their primary garage is roughly midline of our house so it's well behind us and we're intercepting all that drainage we're leaving the garage exactly it is except we're taking off the uh uh the superstructure on top of it and just going with a living fencil on the outside of it that remains the rest of the house does meet the full requirements as far as side yard setbacks combined sidey yard setbacks but I thought it was also instructive to see um there's Crest Drive um up to the top there's a you know from Crest Drive back into our property I've got um to the air prior disturbance I've got um 280 ft of uh of this this if you walk Crest Drive you know this basically falls off pretty steep comes down pretty quickly at 23% and comes right through the property um and you can see this is the area we're what we're looking at trees as well as the topography this is what we're calling the area prior disturbance each of these Lots right next to us um um at 93 there's a pool in the back you can see the limited disturbance the water company you can see where they created their sisters limited disturbance you can see the Bon property at at 63 almost goes back to the property line the limit of the servant uh the property to our left at 109 also has a disturbance right to the back of the property 113 has a significant um Level Playing area that they've up created in the backyard um we did a pool at 155 that actually didn't require a steep SL bar a different ordinance um pool in the back and so you can see these kind of levels of where it's not so steep in the houses were brought forward because they they the um the uh properties weren't quite as steep um they were the the disturbance comes forward in the in these areas where you start to get the deeper properties and the steeper properties you can see the levels of disturbance go considerably further back but uh the reason I brought this up was to show the house on the left of us you can see there's the front line of the house there's um our garage and there's our house and that's the midline of what we creating so clearly um any drainage would flow down and we're protecting that because we're picking that all up in a state of the AR detention system so there'll be no adverse impact on the neighbor in terms of view shed um we're not building anything that will limit their views to New York City which are uh basically off to that direction um to the Freedom Tower um as part of our architecture design the detailed studies of where uh where the B Bridge was where the Arizona was where the where the downtown New York was um and we made sure that we were neither affecting a neighbor and that we knew where where our Windows needed to be placed on the property so the the purpose of uh of A6 was to show you the limits of disturbance and show you the property to the left is protected the property to the right is biased further away that's the one um at at 83 um that's the one that we believe um access to this property under product construction was to come off that driveway there a continuation that grad right from the site since we're not doing that anymore we'll come through our property but um you can see that you know we're matching average grades here so this this property uh is lateral to us uh certainly no impact no impact to the neighbors across the street because we're picking up all that drainage we're we're maintaining the uh uh the Swale and we're we're putting in a Grade over the the driveway so no no negative impact on the neighbors okay um do you have any further testimony at this point nope okay so what we're going to do we take a five minute break I would like you to take these exhibits and just put them out a little bit so that neighbors can take a look real fast absolutely when we resume uh we'll be opening up for questioning uh from the board as well as uh any interested parties of Mr you covered a ton material there so if you have some questions at this point uh we're going to open up for questions okay great so 5 minute recess and come back and this if they have any questions uh you good with that Mr SC good so uh anyone on the board have any questions for Mr K and testimony that he has given so far uh Rich since here taking away the greater than one foot within 5 foot of the property line and you don't need VAR on that so we can cross that off right cross that off correct y so you know you mentioned and actually I'm also perform of that that where you talked about a lot no matter how large the size is you th000 square feet okay so if you're loots in the r six or the R3 you have 1,000 square feet right um but you're at about 40% disturbance okay so that's obviously it would never go there right you're never see no would I wouldn't go there when we did when they had came up with that ordinance we did a statistical analysis of some of the Steep cell variant see some of the Steep cell projects I did that did not need variant when it used to be broken into percentage of you know 20 to 30 and and I had properties that were 1.6 acres with 20,000 feet of disturbance that did not need a variance um the before that the variant the ordinance was um if you had more than 130 your property was steeper than 15% you had to reduce your coverage by onethird but you could disturb all the seeps if you wanted to so that's how a lot of our town was developed so that that disturbance happened some of it legally some of a preate Zone zoning but yeah we're still high so even though we're only almost double um we've got a lot more than 2,000 square feet but you know again statistically and empirically we looked at 10 to 20% was viable under the old ordinance so even at at 20% I'd be at 7500 square feet something like that so this is but this is not your run M Property sore is a unique property this development was unique um let's face it under the current ordinance you wouldn't have developed any of these properties on the uphill side of Sagamore Road you wouldn't have any of them and and I think Sagamore Road and the township is better for it but we need relief and and I think it's pretty well documented when you look at the site and you look at the aerial photography you look at the trees and you look at the cross-section that that first 175 feet was clearly Disturbed so it's an area prior disturbance our ordinance is so narrow in its definition of of Redevelopment that we don't get to count that but it's clearly an area that's been changed before to get all the existing development up and down s every single house up and down sagore Road on that North Side um would need some form of relief if yourability today so you know this question is going to come up so I might as well ask it now um you know obviously you have a lot of disturbance here in all your various colors and sections and so forth is this is this really where you need to be I mean you know is it possible to trim some of this disturbance because we might as well address it now yep look I I think I've been um I've been coming to this board long enough um and working with Architects and we've told the board in certain circumstances you know we couldn't make any smaller I couldn't make the hallways any smaller and the architect couldn't make the hallways any smaller I couldn't make the grades any less I can't make it less than 15% I would like to be 14% but we couldn't get any less than 15% um so I don't have a lot of latitude the areas I have do have some latitude is in the the two the two um intersection we took a look at uh areas three and four um colors Mr three and four purple and yellow we took a look at purple and yellow areas and said do I need to be that wide well it's nice to get vehicles up there for um to to get a um a soft tire or a track machine up there for maintenance and tree removal but do I need that WID no I could probably size these down and make them half as much um and still um I might make them a little steeper little little more back pitched to intercept water but I could certainly um I could cut these down by as much as 50% I think I'd still get about the same efficacy I think what we designed is optimal um I just I I'm a little hesitant because I don't think there's any negative impact from doing that um and I and I want to make sure that my client's imperative was safe driveway dry house you know I'm not going to spend a year and a half designing and spend the kind of money I'm going to spend and it's not going to be a cheap house to build just because even with the construction road it's a they're difficult sites to build on so I was hesitant to go any lower initially we did take a you know Rick skolnick pushed us what can we lose what can we lose what can we lose and and I was intractable on the uh R's a smart guy Rick and green was that smart guy that's in the transcript right I'm really intractable on the the green and yellow areas I think I absolutely need that disturbance the upper levels green green and orange yes green and orange the green and orange I'm I I think I absolutely need those to create a sa a safe um safe buildable site that manages water well I definitely need um intercepts above me because I've got 280 feet of water coming towards me but they could be small that's 4600 feet those two purple yep and so I I could size those down to be 2300 and I'd still get I might make them a little more radical in their back pitch but I think I could um without requiring any additional variants for wall Heights or things like that I think I could make them work um can you go with an alternative design to those interception what I'm thinking about is what we normally see which is infiltration basins detension Basin that would normally be probably smaller certainly in size just in terms of disturbance than those intercepts and whether if you you tried a different type of stor management technique depends what your goal is that would result in less disturbance than what we're look if I try to put basins above me I'm doing two things one is I'm holding water um if it over tops now I've got water sheeting uh down against me um I I I don't want to hold water above it and actually I think what you get is you get rid of the yellow one and and your your purple one would get twice as fat to get an impound area to hold water and I really don't want to create a lake above the house I'd rather manage it intercept it intercept it at points along that um that uh path and then manage that and get it down into areas in the front where I can provide detention and then let that U meter at a controlled rate into the town storm Sur system I'm very nervous about putting an impoundment area above how many these detention bases that's a ton of water trying to tra well I don't my most of it I'm going to let run through I'm going to detain enough to cover the 1800 1870 square feet there may be some pip we may find some pipes in there that we don't know about but I couldn't find any pipes coming into this well I'm going to provide the required detention but my goal is to get that water around and into ultimately whether it goes through my neighbor's property on either side it's going to end up in the town stormur system so my detention only needs to be roughly 500 uh cubic feat by ordinance which is uh seven about 8,000 gallons um of water um and I can do that pretty easily in tanks in the area in front of the existing uh garage and in where the old what we think is the boiler room was um I have enough area to do that and not require not rely on storm water infiltration and permeability and design a system that will work that 1870 feet you're talking about just off the the roof no no 187 sare feet is the net increase in impervious area oh oh you're you're going to capture the net increase yeah so I capture the net increase actually um be honest with you our ordinance is um may actually require me to um because I'm rebuilding the house it may actually make me do the entire uh footprint of the house in L of so I may have to do um well it just not counting some garage I may have to do something like 3,700 Square cubic feet 3700 square feet of mitigation but uh we clearly would meet that and I can still do that because otherwise you're not improving necessarily I'm definitely improving I will definitely be improving it it will be controlling work in terms oh yeah well that that we're definitely doing because we know that's going to route down through the system and I'll probably route that what I probably would do again you know it's going to take a few we were hesitant to spend another $20,000 which is what it's going to cost to design this system without knowing we could get a variance because we know we can do it opposition um potentially opposition attorney um who lives across the street hired an engineer I talked with her and she was totally on board said it's absolutely doable um knock yourself out so um in terms of the um these two areas for storm water management we'll probably take the the roof leaders all into one and direct everything else that comes right through another one and have two separate systems that then join into the storm system Al what we I like to bifurcate roof water a because it's the only water that's technically clean um although most of what's coming off the mountain is clean there's not driveway water but we like this bifurcate roof water when we can any question I'm basic question um I know that the whole project started with mold in your house that was explained to us in our packet um and I believe you said you're going to try to save the foundation so I'm just trying to I'm sure that the architect could probably answer this and maybe you can answer as well you're preserving that Foundation how do you know that old Foundation isn't leaky that you can have mold all over again right well we will inspect it um obviously the bigger problem with with getting rid of existing mold is it gets it gets into the wood plates so anywhere there's wood everything else can be fairly cleaned um with a bleach type solution um and mold mitigated but obviously once we we have done some exploratory work um even if we had to pull the block out we would keep the foundation back in the same point so we'll make that our goal both for financial reasons um but also because we believe the block can be salvaged use exist I think it's 70 to 80% of the existing foundation will be used the architect can clarify that number but um clearly if if once we get the house off and we can look at those walls in their entirety if there's a different decision we still wouldn't make the foundation any bigger okay so not figure but you you'll make sure that not oh yeah mold yeah kind of trade fi or whatever you to do um what are these Pathways going to be made of the lawn path made of lawn with lawn underneath soil underneath yeah purle and yellow where where we've uh yeah we flatten them out and and um Brian our landscape um who's architect and contractor has worked um both further up on his contractors have worked further up Sagamore Road creating such paths we've done some stuff off of Minn on steep so areas where we've managed pass and so yeah they're um they're a ground cover and Brian will speak briefly Brian can talk about what he puts in there but they're ground cover but since we're flattening them um they're not susceptible to run up and last question you have a lot of stones lot of stones what's secures those stones in place and keeps them from running down onto sagore Road Y and clearly I talked about Boulders washing across sagore Road uh and again um we've man you put them in they they're made to look um dry laid but they're all wet they're all cement in the back but we leave plenty of opening so water can come through with a Filter Fabric behind it so um they appear to be natural um but they're held in place with mortar in the back where you don't see it um Filter Fabric to stop so from migrating so you're didn't get settlement above it and then um in areas where we'll back pitch it so on top of that then goes a soil layer and that soil layer is is a fairly dense oil layer so where where I have to collect water we can back Fitch it and get it into an inlet it doesn't run through the cracks and there's some sort of assessment process regularly for some I've never seen so many stones on a property so this excep essentially you know we we wanted to we wanted to present and Brian actually um I kind of said here's my grade here's my grade and Brian went on a 10 scale and kind of laid it all out as how he would build it and Cascade water down through it but um yeah we didn't want to go with any kind of modular block system because that's not typical to sagore Road but native Rock uh is abundant and it can be held in with MTAR concrete uh and built is there an assessment a person who can assesses like every five years you make sure the stones are in place yeah I mean clearly if if there's any if there's any if there's any stones come loose you'll not it pretty quickly but yeah I mean the um the whole idea is uh and we did this on a on a property unfortunately we'll never see it um it's a large property up on Minn um that brinded amazing paths like this that are completely stable they've gone through um hurricane Ida um similar heavy storms with no movement at all they're held in place um and the paths are are viable and used constantly and and so we've got some um you know to me and the first thing I told Ryan was you can get rid of me at any point but you got to have Brian assist you on the build Brian's guys build this because Brian has the expertise to do that because I've seen it in other areas this is not something that's left for a guy who plows driveways and builds modular block retaining walles it's a little more specialized there's a lot of rocks that are facing Sagamore and those are the ones I'm most worried about and that's actually sagore and if you drive up and down Sagamore you'll see there's a lot of that kind of walls where they have rocks embedded in the existing soil um holding back soil so it's really it's really an embedment process of embedding rocks in where you can you chip away some of the Rocks you get a Ledge in there if you need to hold it back with some concrete so it's really a it's a stone by Stone labor intensive job it's not meant for the lowest common denominator it's not a modulate blck wall but um it's certainly it's what exists on syamore road and we'd like to see that gonna end up onore nope thank I don't live across the street but there is still you know it's not like I moved to a a country with no extradition um and I still have friends up and down sore road so you know I I I'm protective of the neighborhood believe any other questions from G um so I'll open up for questions this questions only from the audience if anyone has a question from the uhow regarding uh Mr K's Tes yes just please give us your name and where you live okay and once again these are for questions only yeah I'm Dorothy g d o r o t y last same goo I live on 101 Sego if you the house facing the house is on on the left okay one one second more your question okay uh I know a lot has been discussed and a question has been asked by the board but I do have some question prepared just want to get a a clear uh relevant simplifies the answer right okay the first um first category know you learn a couple questions but I will ask at the same time questions about the new driveway entrance location the right you mention that I do have some concerns uh there are 31 houses on Sego Road on the hillside in nurn more than 80% that is about 25 houses have driveway entrance from the right of the property to the left property regardless where the parking lot is located you know they are all properly and N SL spaced and situated um 99 segment property lot has the w'' question yeah my I just want give some background I come you're going to have an opportunity to make statements later on in the proceeding this is just for questions of this particular witness yeah assum he's very very familiar as he lived there with his plot with is 17 173 feet is wider than most of the property on second mo why you change the drive entry so close to my drive you know as he stated it's as of right okay so honestly do not to answer the question it's it's okay he can do that there's no he's not asking for a variance for the driveway there's it's can lawfully exists so you know there's really no justification for it okay my question is you know this is on the hill site did you also notice the driveway cross the street one 199 you're facing it's going to be very in close prox U proximity you know so exact specifically I think the neighbor told me once the drive entry will be five six feet away from where my drive entry is so specifically how many feet you have you know two M driveway and you're facing the 100 seore and also the 98 seore right and on the other side you have almost 200 fees available you don't use do you consider maybe you know there is other options well my property is 173 ft wide the driveway is approximately um the driveway at at at the closest point which is really at the gutter at the property line I'm 30 feet away but at the at the gutter line I'm about uh 11 ft from the property line it's about because here is only less than 5T if you use the r goes up from here to to the top yeah I think this is six to eight feet away okay I'm not sure what you're asking but um with regard to the driveway across the way um one thing that we notice on Sagamore is it's really problematic when Neighbors come when when guests come and they have to park and if you if your drivewood are aligned the nice thing is that after the two driveways you have a much more uh a longer uninterrupted section of gutter along which you can park so when you have when you have a hodg podge and hopscotching of driveways means I get cars parked on one side and it gets very narrow and parked on the other side it's very narrow whereas if I have driveways that are are you know close to each other there's better visibility I can see someone else who's moving so there's better visibility and again we're talking about very low trip generation between single family homes so I think it's actually more appropriate to have the driveway and you said the driveways are separated me 198 the driveways are separated by less than a couple feet so we're actually moving our driveway right across from that which means that we'll free up curd line for parking and again even with three houses in your fourth house in close proximity um the trip generation is so low it doesn't really matter and there are other areas where driveways uh intersect or there are common driveways further up and there may be that 80% starting to left and go up but the way for us to unless we were to push the house the the new house much further back I needed to start on the left side and get as long a driveway as I could if I start here and come this way by the time I get back and turn around with a safe driveway this house has to push back 30 40 feet if I come in on this side there's just not enough to get not enough run to get up into the house and turn around otherwise I'd be taking down the existing driveway garage and I'd be putting a driveway within 5T of your house this way you have a a garage that's been there for eons and we're actually making it less visible for you and not using it for parking not parking in the front yard when we met on your property you can see n Ryan's car right in the front yard as you look down towards Manhattan so this area will no longer be for parking I think this is actually much more respectful of your view shed and your property and and uh safety in terms of driveway and viability of uh of visitors to park on road all right I will have comments later my next question yeah just want to confirm you said that you have four um variants listed and reduce one the elevation more than one feet within five feet less reviews so you don't have any other un you know not explicitly list variance required for this application right I'm sorry say again last part yeah because in the letters sent to us you have maybe other variant variants uh will be um requested during this hearing right in addition to the four right so there's there there was just four three okay so three right now okay uh currently the existing detached Gage after the Redevelopment you're going to be used as a storage right okay so currently you have a on the top I have a ped and the in front there is like a paved driving is a pav driving lot is going to maintain pavement goes away okay and any there will be no use of a patio on the top small to Stage it into okay um yeah there'll be a there'll be a concrete pad right in front of it but the driveway is coming out and the Wall's coming out and there is a zoning I know everyone is expert I'm not very good at this but I will give a try you know in The Zing code there is a definition about accessory use accessory use defined as you know private garage shed swimming pool um platform tennis court tennis court and the greenhouse you know after Redevelopment the garage Chang is used it's not going to be used as a detached garage anymore so will you need a um variance like a change of the purpose the use variance and also remember currently the garage is not compl Ling with the zun code and you're supposed to be 12 feet away from the property line is right now is less than 5 feet like 4.45 fet and you know there so do you need you know under the develop Redevelopment plan you need to bring this garage if has garage to comply with the code uh it's it's an existing non-conforming condition that probably pre z um looks like it's been there for more than 75 than 100 years certainly preate zoning from the 50s um we are keeping it we're Lessing the intensity of the use because we're no longer using the car cars we're not using the top of it anymore so we are we did notice in our site data box that it's an existing non-performing condition that we're looking to uh keep that variance condition again it's a less intense use uh since we didn't want to uh chip away at that rock to get basement storage um and there's only a small portion you know you've got a you've got a garage and a small portion uh Within uh the the main body of the house that has a a lower level for a little storage a little storage and basically circulation up so um it will be helpful for storage um for lawn maintenance for kids uh bikes things like that it will be helpful to have that uh as to to stay it is one of the more historic structures on the property we are getting rid of the boiler room but uh uh we are we are asking to keep that and uh we did notice that there an existing Al it doesn't me to side my next question I we have comments later on that uh my next question what do you plan to do in the rear end um disturb what's the purpose to disturb here well as I indicated we're no longer looking to disturb within 5et of your property line but we're looking to create an intercept a a Swale that intercepts so that's a it's a I showed it on the section so that W when water comes off the hillside from that 280 ft from press Drive it'll first hit that that intercept I'll have some drainage in that it'll then direct it it'll direct water that comes down it'll get into that it'll help direct it down along the Swale or to have pick it up in inlets or or a a pipe set in stone perforated pipe set in stone so I can intercept water that comes down and then I'll have another area to intercept water in the purple zone so it's it it does dual service it's primary primary purpose is to intercept water and secondary purpose was to provide for uh access for maintenance vehicles to get into the back of the property for substances tree removal Etc yeah um question regarding the mod issue remediation have you considered you know like a board member also ask any option to remediate the mode issue and the slope driveway was very limited and allow the disturbance you know not at this extreme um intent you know um scale the mold remediation is restricted to the existing house and so we're trying to keep that existing footprint and um the mold remediation really has nothing to do with the uh the steep slope disturbance other than to rebuild to to demo parts of that house and rebuild it we need construction access we can no longer come through the neighbor's property um we can't get access with construction vehicles on a 23% uh 10ft wide driveway that's curving at the same time as it's dropping so we need to create both safe access but more importantly we need to create a long driveway for uh safe vehicular access for the owners of the property so the mold remediation is what's causing us to rebuild the house rebuilding the house is what's necessitating uh the the orange uh disturbance in the front have you considered the option to rebuild a house with a temporary drive and still use you know the existing enhan the existing driveway um was limited at this that's an option too it would be very difficult to get it down to 15% but if I did try to get a driveway that was at 15% and access the same point when I got out of my car I would still be 16 feet below the house which is that's if you look at every other house on sagore road there isn't a single one that I know of and I think it's 100% where when you get to the driveway you get to the basement level or you get to the first floor level um we're not you're not 16 ft below the house and this has no basement so we're looking to get we're doing an intermediate level with that uh we're dropping the F the the garage is 10 feet below the proposed house but there's still six foot differential between the proposed garage and the existing garage so again if that garage was further back that garage the existing gr was 30 40 feet further back maybe I've had some opportunities to to do that um again I couldn't show you how many um Trace copies of fully worked out grading plans Brian and I did um uh trying to come up with the scheme it was over six eight months there were at least five or six schemes of every conceivable way we could do it to try to minimize impact um and it just became obvious that we needed to distur slopes to to build a driveway and you're not going to build a an access road and then for construction access and then build back an unsafe driveway after you're done I mean once you've disturb it you disturb it so we are uh we're we think that the as I said before the green and the orange areas are really areas that we need to create a safe mold-free um accessible property okay thank you that's my question than you we'll have more comments later um any other questions from the audience regarding uh test Mr okay we're going to call our next Witness Marvin flon an architect and we're going to try to streamline since the architectural issues are not Paramount in this application talk too that's true too approves yes okay Marvin next exhibit is going to be uh seven A7 A7 okay markam A7 call call it out for us as your mark them and then go on okay right hand please be S from testimony about the given proceeding be the truth of the truth I do your name for the record from your name Marvin M a r v i n Clawson c l a w s o n and your credentials sir I'm a licensed architect I've been licensed since 1990 in the state of New York I attended graduate school at Columbia University got an advanced degree in architectural design I've met with four boards in Milbourne Maplewood Summit South Orange mon Claire and uh Asbury Park you've been recognized as an expert in the field of architecture by those boards I have been okay and your licenses are in order at the moment they are no disciplinary procedings no okay chairman i' submit Mr Clawson expert thank you appreciate that okay back to it why don't you mark them all so this way you could sort of streamline you A7 A8 okay and and what else you gonna go with let's let's let's mark them as we go along so we can explanation just call it out what it is so that the record and Mr Simon and Miss DAV okay can uh have a name for the exhibits okay this is an illustrative perspective of the hedd house this is Sagamore Avenue or sagore Road excuse me this is the pathway up to the drive uh this is the existing garage that we spoke about and then a pathway to the drive through this wooded area uh when we were designing this project as a as Rich had mentioned before was a collaboration uh we buil used 80% of the existing foundation of the project in uh October or November of 2022 a structural engineer surveyed this structure and and uh wrote a report stated that we could rebuild the house safely on the found ations um when we did realize the ultimate footprint which is on A8 here what do you want to call A8 A8 is um existing basement plan proposed basement plan uh this is the existing house with the crawl space and this is a crawl space underneath the den this is the existing garage existing garage uh this is the new garage in the basement level uh this from this point up we all crawl space we enlarg the utility room and made it a full basement you'll see that it's just a small area here uh the reason we did that is to provide upgraded utilities upgrad his mechanical equipment to mitigate mold uh and to produce something that met code from the industry standpoint because the new energy codes for 2021 are much more stringent um there uh we needed that space to actually service the house as you can see from the photographs this is the existing condition of the house as it sits today this is the proposed perspective from the same Vantage Point uh our idea was to Nestle it into the landscape put it into the woods it becomes very uh symbiotic if you will with the landscape it works with each other uh so that it gradually steps up into the grade and into the hill and provides massing that's broken up so that it doesn't overwhelm the site we used a single story on the end uh for a guest suite and we have a a twostory area one over the garage for the living room in order to manage the height and and create a stepping effect up the hill I'll briefly go through the second and third floor this will be A9 [Music] call the second and third floor I mean I'm sorry first and second floor my apologies trying to rush um as Rich mentioned before we did a view corridor this is from the existing uh bedroom on the on the on the house we also studied the wind patterns and the solar patterns uh when we developed the site plan we utilized the site areas that are adjacent to the site so that we actually brought them into the house not only from a physical sense but from a visual sense we also allowed us to put natural light in the spaces and access we increased it from one point four points and so that you're able to move through the house very easily and onto the landscape this area represents area that was mildly Disturbed we're just adding in additional top soil for vegetation these are exhibits a 10 and A1 there are the elevations of the existing home compared to the elevation of the proposed home uh what we're trying to do here is to utilize the same uh modern style it's a Mid Century Modern this was a tech built house uh from 1962 by Milton Klein we're trying to stay with the same style genre but also open up the facade to allow more light and views from the existing uh floor area we are uh providing a garage parking under the living room the living room does have views out to New York City uh we do have a clear story here above the stair that provides additional natural light into the foyer and into the stair area and then this is uh off the family room the kitchen and then it's all the bedrooms are situated on the second floor this is the primary Suite with the library and dining room beneath it uh this again is the existing facade majority of the glazing was fixated on the center uh this virtually has a very small area of of windows so we again complemented that this is the living room the primary suite and the kitchen area back here so we tried to maintain that same um character as the original house but also blended into the site with the with the sighting and also with the massing of the prop okay yes uh some of the uh building is pushed back a little bit absolutely it's pushed back show that on the first one back left top right show which ones are pushed back on the top right top right yeah that one not all those are PL some of them are push back oh I'm so sorry thank you yes so this this is in the foreground this is in the middle ground this is in the foreg ground that's in the background so it's beginning to push in pull as it moves across the site in front and back this is A2 this is an illustrative site section we developed this to show the scale uh of the house to the landscape this is uh Sagamore Road the driveway as it comes up this is the terracing that Richard talking about with the retaining walls with the trees uh as you come up this is the area uh where we would have the garage this is actually going through the library SL dining room and primary Suite uh looking out into the landscape uh purpose of this exhibit was to demonstrate that we kept a majority of this area well preserved and again altered this to prevent the uh migration of water into the house so the whole design was was predicated on the fact that we would have a symbiotic relationship with a landscape try to Nestle it into the hill and create a massing that would be complimentary to the landscape and to Sagamore Road thank you for your time so um how come we don't sh any some pumps in this house pums I me if water's a consider an issue you know I'm answer that yeah um I lived across street and I did a major addition and gut renovation you don't need if you have if you can get your footing drains to Daylight you don't need Foundation you don't need um some pumps because you have a footing drain that runs around the perimeter and you can take that out the daylight so it has positive flow down into our drive system away from the site so there's no there's no capturing of water because it runs free you know obviously cross space probably has water sitting in it is why you have the mle problem yeah unfortunately the crawl space wasn't readily accessible so obviously when we when we do that we're going to take the opportunity to put an external footing grain in now right along the outside of it so we we'll do a footing grain that we go to Daylight really daylight it go into our detention system but we'll manage that internally when you're on the SL when you can get to Daylight you don't need we don't want sub pumps because they don't they don't work when the gra when the lights go no no for sure I said it's just original Power wait a second if you're to talk to come up so the original when we had the mold issue we dug up the foundation around the house to see what why it was happening the foundation was so old around the house that there was no U I've been told that modern Foundation they insulated and waterproof it uh there was no waterproofing or anything and there was water just coming in here all we have you have to do is just take it around here to get rid of most of it and whatever comes in here if it's uh uh water approved it takes care of itself that that's what we were told my contractor reflexively in 2012 put a sum pump in I said fill it I don't need it and we filled it with concrete and I never needed a sum pump because I I put new footing drains in I took them into the drive system so you don't need them up here which is one of the nice things but we didn't know that before and obviously in 1962 they had different ideas about how you would waterpro the house or not water you collect okay that's enough that's enough let's see if they have questions okay any questions for any questions from the audience regarding this testimony on the you take the car up the driveway how broad is it versus how it was earlier I can answer that too actually we we did a 12T wide uh cartway where it's 10 now but we we don't have walls on either side so we allowed for a little shoulder on either side we're hoping to not curve it but if we need curb to help drain direct range we will but it's a much more open feeling so you've got 15 16 feet of visual openness instead of the 10 foot2 inches before but the the cart way again because we're trying to be you know I don't like to I like to do 14 foot wide driveways but because we're trying to limit disturbance and The Wider the driveway the more steep slopes I disturb so we thought 12 was a a reasonable amount and since visually it's not as imposing and now you have a burm on the on the side of it so you're not worried about driving off and driving down the hill you have a burm that keeps you in um it's a much more open experience and you're dropping from 23 down to 15% any other questions we opened it to the public so we're GNA put Mr hsh on for five minutes much qualifi for but okay Brian come on up that sworn please from testimony about to give tonight's proceeding be the truth H Truth by the truth I do your name and spell for it's uh Brian b r i n h h i r s c are you licensed landscape architect I didn't ask yes I'm a licensed landscape architect in New York New Jersey and several other states through reciprocity um I've been practicing with a license since uh 2009 in both States I have an office here in mbour and I've enjoyed working in this community for uh 10 years now been testified in front of planning and zoning boards and been qualified yes by them previously so I went to undergraduate school at Cornell and I've been practicing uh from 2001 on I worked in New York City for larger firms and I found that residential design really suited me so that's why I went on my own is an expert in landscape architecture uh can you just give a very brief overview sure uh and uh talk a little bit about uh the iterations and how you got to this and what you're trying to do from a holistic sense sure so we've heard the testim about numbers and how we get to this and this is kind of what we're trying to go for in terms of the overall Vision so I'll try to keep this as brief as possible um part of what we're trying to do here that Marion loves the existing site part of what they love is the overstory canopy nestled into the Hillside and being that close to the reservation obviously we've heard part of the problem of being that close to the reservation is you don't have any of the mitigation the streets that benefit downhill so to speak your this property is kind of the tip of the spear in terms of mitigating water from the top down so what we're trying to do in both these sections and show where the existing you know Woodland I'm sorry we got to Mark these exhibit 13 and 14 this 13 just call out a title for us a13 and this is uh perspective three I guess okay that's fine uh and this is A4 what do you want to call that site section c So speaking first to a13 uh what we're trying to do here is to show that most of what you're seeing in the foreground here are made up of this is a river birch uh you know a clump or you know a Grove that we're trying to do to install on the actual steep Hillside so that it creates a vegetated uh ability to stabilize the slopes and then to create an under story uh beneath the existing trees um what we're showing here on this is a little of the cut fill section which we've heard about tonight we're trying to make the driveway a little bit of a valley between two sets of existant trees so that we're taking from the vernacular of what's happening on the site and borrowing it in miniature uh close up um what I think is important you know here is to show what we're what Rich was just talking about the safety of the driveway Itself by making a large bowl instead of a confining lugge you're creating even though it's 12 feet it's a much more generous you know feel going up and down the driveway um uh I think the next section here which is what we've been looking at these long sections up and down the hillside which is what helps uh you know explain what we're doing over the length of the property I think this next section helps explain what we're trying to do laterally across the site because there is no grade change as you're moving horizontally across it so we're trying to create these very flat lateral spaces that create you know the length and the width of the site because it is 173 ft wide and there's plenty of room to be able to maneuver on that site for us y this it is site section B and this was 15 yeah 15 um so look I'm just trying to keep this brief we we've reviewed a lot today you know so I guess if there's any questions I'd be happy to answer it directly but I this is trying to paint a very pretty picture of what we're trying to do on the site without giving anything to too specific that locks it in um please open up the questions just keep it brief so yeah so no you go first the backyard obviously we have these paths that go through the back y um is there a way to make those shall we say you know a little less egregious in terms of the Steep Lo surface yet serve the same purpose they seem awfully wide so in terms of the water mitigation correct so I think what Rich had said is we designed as optimally to mitigate as much water as possible and to provide erress I think Rich has also said that we can reduce them to almost half their width so that I don't remember the colors I believe it's yellow and purple would be reduced by 50% in total in aggregate um and that's you know what we're looking at here so these areas is what you're talking about here so just so we understand and again when you know we were tasked with creating a safe this is all about safety getting up and down the driveway this area here is about mitigating water before it comes to the house and so I just to to repeat what we're talking about is that when you have I think it's you know hundreds of feet of water starting to sheet when it starts to really move when it has you know no chance where it's being slowed down that's when you get wash outs and that's when you get it you know getting into the foundation here so all these are trying to do is to try to intercept the water slow it down and move it to where it can be easily collected again here to slow it down mitigate it where can be easily intercepted before it ever has a chance to adversely affect the property which is what's currently happening how are those now this is 8 feet on the dotted line is 8 feet and we're talking about going back up to grade on either side I did not bring a picture of it but the existing trails that exist inside of H South Mountain reservation that's what we used as a precedent image of what the vernacular of the site is in then around and that's a very similar trail of what we're looking at an earlier question was about what was going to be planted or what is you know placed in this there's things like sges uh Woodland uh grasses that grow in very low light but they create a very soft understory there's Ferns and there's other plants that the deer do not predate on and so that way we would stabilize this but a very natural looking way so that's what we were looking at would 8 feet have wide enough for Eis purposes to get vehicles up there so most tracked Vehicles is what you'd be bringing up there Wheels would just create ruts whereas a rubber track vehicle is what you'd be bringing there and those usually are between six to seven feet so eight feet is giving enough room to maneuver but the goal would be that if you bring something up there it's stabilized that when you know that whatever is done to you know to be able to reach the back of the property the vegetation isn't ruined and it's more about creating these slower intercepts on the way it's a vegetative Swale is basically what we're talking about buildings I know it's it's a big graphic you know of what's going on up there but it really is a lighter touch in actuality you know when you're looking at what it actually looks like how how what so you you would only need Rich four feet for water purpose water manag purposes you need eight for E purposes yeah I I would probably size the edges down and go with something like five feet for the water purposes and try to pull in my sloping section on either side so you know I'm but I think we could do it in 50% have you provided um any type of tree removal um analysis on the Tre thank you for bringing that up so one of the things that we're trying to on the property which it doesn't show this beautifully here but we're looking to maintain the trees on the perimeter along the front and along the side in addition to trees for lack of a better word have they're they're like on a hierarchy a tulip or you know is a lowgrade tree that splits apart in a storm versus a Harwood tree like a maple or an oak of equal size they're not of equal value so when we're looking at the site you know tulips in many respects are expendable whereas a maple or you know an oak tree especially the ones that are of size are really you know worth saving so some of the the drive this curve of the driveway actually responds to two of the trees that are here so it to answer your question more directly we tried to keep the trees that were of the most value to the neighboring lots and to you know the appeal from the road itself when you're looking at what's being kept on the side the other other evation shows what's happening along the front I think we're talking about six trees that are inside the driveway itself and so in order to make the long driveway that we're talking about that gives the rise to run which reduces the slope those are the worst you know offenders in the middle there okay so so we're clear that you're proposing to um lose six trees due to the driveway correct and what's the range of size in diameter yeah they're all two ups they're all located right here on this mouth here uh and they're between 8 to 16 in in diameter um so you know the largest tree this is probably an 18inch diameter tree and they are 90t you know tulip trees so I mean there're it's I don't want to say they're not valuable but they don't have a large shade you know they are like telephone poles with things that come out versus an oak tree which has a beautiful large mature canopy which you would never want to take down intentionally and with regard to the purple and yellow area um how many trees are proposed to be lost nothing larger than 8 inches anything that we're you proposing through that is a small tree we're talking about something this size and it might be an understory tree like a dogwood or something else they're nothing major in terms of like a canopy tree or a mature you know shade tree or anything like that even 8 in um which is a tree I think the orance how many you losing so we're talking about I'm looking at this it's one or two depending on how wide you know we go but we really did try to maneuver in and around the existing vegetation um it's shown as one straight line for geometrical purposes it might be under slightly more than that so that it doesn't uh you know affect the roots okay my final question how many if if any trees are going to be either removed or potentially adversely impacted that may be located on a common property line or on ajon so I think the answer is zero because we're not disturbing within the first five fet and we really wanted to keep those vegetated areas the same so that nobody's suffering a loss of privacy or of their existing shade on their property um but like I said obviously just based on the way the geometry of the site is because we're disturbing here to get the driveway to go and we're back filling here this is the area this quadrant is where we're losing you know the major majority of those six trees is there any other questions from the board losing trees mentioned The Birches you're putting in there you're putting anything else in there so let's put it this way we're showing um this this is these are dogwood trees which we've shown here and we're trying to do a you're trying to look at the trees but also see what's beyond it so there's a little bit transparency but in terms of the net you know you look at caliber size we're taking down a 16inch tree we're putting down more than in three inch and three and a half inch trees of the same amount of you know caliper size back so in terms of the net gain when we plant this there will also be Oak five to six inch that will grow into mature trees so you wind up having a successional woodland so that you do have the upper story and the under story so long story short is the landscape plan will you know like re with the reciprocity take care of the trees that are coming down and there's a longer range goal to have successional forests you know installed there so just one more going to hammer a question that I think we've talked about before make it quick looks like the purple and the yellow which are which have been under conversation quite a bit tonight 15, 52 feet if you add the purple and yellow together so this is 10 plus about five is what we're saying um so didn't I have that 4600 feet that's what you're talking about the purple yell the purple and the yellow 2330 if we take your deal in the half okay how would that affect the dra the drainage if we cut it in half or did without so I I think what we've been saying is I mean look I would definitely recommend not doing without because I think you have to understand all the water that's running off the reservation is running directly to the back City's home so unless you do something to slow it down it's going to be much harder the sooner it gets towards the foundation so if you're able to intercept it at at least one place if not two that's beneficial um I think something that hasn't been talked about which I think is important is this helps everybody that's downhill of this property so the road that's coming across this way it has a sale on one side and a s on the other side which again helps everybody downhill and if this functions properly in a storm this is basically serving the exact same purpose through a street through Hardscape what this would be doing with just grading and vegetation so this really is supposed to be light touch because they love the existing Woods in the back of their property we're not trying to you know degrade this area back here if anything it's more about you know slowing water down and getting access so do the other houses in the neighborhood do because they are all sort of in the same situation so a lot of the neighborhood houses like I think Rich's diagram that shows these blue arcs of where the disturbance goes back to goes back much further and so either they've done walls that push the water left and right kind of to their neighbors basically so instead of slowing it down and keeping it on the site itself it's kind of like the prow of a ship it just sends it to the left and the right and you basically get runoff in the you know the areas between the properties um and that's why you see in many of these downhill you'll see the wash out problems occurring in the in you know between the two properties um which I think part of what we're trying to do here is to hold the water on the site after a storm so that you're not creating a peak after a storm where water is going you know everywhere into those areas that's that's what we're trying to do so the other it's either through grading through lawn which you can see they created like flat lawn spaces or they've created Terraces with pools and whatnot that slow it down and then you know mitigate it in those flatter areas so most of the H can do something to mitigate the water this is one thank question from the board any questions from the audience uh for the sou I have a question sure um I'm not on the property but a far away I see there is a big huge like mature Tree in from the grud it will be cut this is an oak tree this is the largest tree yeah these two trees there are there's a large oak tree a large oak tree and two large oak trees here and here those are some of the most valuable in terms of Aesthetics but also I know how many trees in you live next door even look at the back you in the yellow and the purple area there are you said that the uh their own mature trees May larger than like eight inch or 10 inch but in addition there is so many um so many trees like a forest it's not it's less but they all so crowded here I think when you remove even you you know they're going to um use the resist you know uh support to block the water because there is so many so many small trees it's almost like question you have a question yeah have you considered that you know this will um because you remove all the trees there so there's no tree removal that's happening in this Zone we we were talking about potentially a tree and one tree which we're talking about smaller caliper size no other trees are being removed there I was talking about the here trees it's just you know every inch you know they have this small like a brunch I mean I think when you look at what we're trying to do is the area that we are disturbing we're trying to create what exists up here and not disturbing it and bringing that same condition down across the site so you have the overstory and the under we're able to plant the understory because we're planting smaller trees 8 foot to 20 foot size right that's what creates that so we don't want to damage the existing trees thank you any other questions but those oak trees you're talking about those going to be preserved uh yes any other questions the creation of the drive the new driveway do you lose any any sort of so we were saying this quadrant down here is where we lose there's we were saying there's six trees that are mostly tulips I think they're all tulips and there's one red maple but it's a smaller diameter so it's still a loss but in terms of the trees that we want to protect we're talking about this is a 58 inch diameter Oak I mean we you can't bear hug it I mean it's a massive tree and the crown is probably so those want to be protected so what you're losing down here in terms of trying to preserve the integrity and trying to lose what's acceptable that's what we're looking at drive otherwise it's going to be corre yeah we're actually so in some places you can see the trees that are here we actually going purposely around this this radius is not only to be able to get you you know into the garage it's also that this becomes the turning point that you're turning around so you get to experience that tree in around as they going so it's very much important to keep that during construction thank you okay anything else uh not with this witness we're gonna recall Mr Keller for no more than five minutes of summation testimony on the statutory criteria so it's Rich five minutes hear that so we've laid the foundation clearly brid can you can you just talk about the criteria in terms of uh the Practical difficulties that are related here I I think clearly we've gone over that all of these properties on the upper side of sore Road are challenging um this is the steepest part it's near the summit of Sagamore of sore Road and it's one of the steeper properties on the upill side it's uh it is um basically most of the area where disturbing is existing man-made uh topography that is uh steeper than 20% uh and that certainly creates a hardship and redevelop the existing property without the need for variance relief so there's a C1 component to the variances for steep slopes wall separation uh and Wall height uh there's also a a more Market C2 component and the flexible C2 variants uh flexible sea variants where the proposed plan represents a better planning alternative than uh than one that met the ordinance requirements um and where the benefits outweigh the detriment and clearly the and to do that to meet the positive criteria you need to show that you advance uh any one of the 14 or so I can't remember how many there are uh purposes uh of the land use act enumerated in New Jersey uh 4055 d70 um uh D2 um d d I forgot the number anyways uh 4055 D2 excuse me um at any rate the uh the first is general welfare that's Advanced uh we're developing a property that is uh consistent with uh sound planning and engineering principles and the development within the community and certainly on sagore road the plan provides for storm water management uh opportunities make up for deficiencies when the existing house was built um the disturbance areas uh 2 three and four which are the green red and purple areas are all designed to ensure proper storm water management to Ure sure that uh the new home will not be affected uh with excessive storm water leading to Future Mold issues and they're also more protective of the neighborhood um 4055 d2a is also safety the existing house uh must be completely raised due to mold contamination and uh the driveway is one of the most unsafe I've ever been on uh or driven on and our goal is to is to make it a safe driveway um also section J uh where the requested wall um variances allow for Less disturbance of the property by creating landscape opportunities within the proposed walls and I which is improved Aesthetics I think so clearly um you know the what you didn't necessarily get in the in the sections was uh the architect has there's the there's the new lower level garage but he's modulated the masses so they step back into the site it wasn't that we pulled it all forward to just get all these windows as close to New York as possible the massing steps back into the site so that it really follows the landscape uh and that's the way we also managed to avoid needing any kind of height variances even though we do take it from the highest point anywhere to the lowest point anywhere we're still fully compliant so certainly Aesthetics I think are improved also um the proposed steep slope as we indicate disturbance is not a land grab we're not trying to get a bigger house we're not trying to create a pool area we're not trying to um to get anything more than the outdoor um lawn and garden areas that um the house was relied old house relied on and Ryan and his wife love the ability to look onto those areas each room has its own character and way it relates to the outside landscape um so we think for certainly it advances the positive criteria under C1 and C2 advancing mult multiple purposes of zoning uh the negative criteria it's obviously the two prong criteria that there's no substantial detriment to the public good and there's no substantial impairment to the intent and purpose of the zoning plan and zoning ordinance um and when it comes to the potential uh detriments um you know we uh we often look you know case law often says you look to the purpose of the ordinance for which relief is sought and so if we look to the the uh the steep slope ordinance section 68.1 uh these controls are provided to minimize potentially adverse impacts associated with the disturbance of steeply soed sloped areas such regulations promote the public health wealth safety and wealth of the township by limiting disturbance to soil and vegetation and controlling erosion in deeply controlled areas in a little more background uh the ordinance says under 6. 8.2 um steep slope disturbance results in a number of things accelerated uh erosion processes from Storm runoff um um I would point out that um soil erosion control measures uh allow um up sod to go up to 33% without the need for any additional stabilization and when you flatten areas um that are as steep as 77% and you cut them down to 33% you're actually slowing the water down I I I I have an exhibit because I think most people I won't show it but most people don't know a 20% slope is actually not very steep 23% is steep to drive on but you'll be surprised how many of your own properties have slopes that you go out five feet you go up one that's 20% that's a steep slope um to be have natural slopes that natural grade line we indicated going all the way from the front to the back that's 23% it's not 70% the 70% slopes and the 40% slopes those were created when they built the when they built the home so certainly um what we're doing will not accelerate erosion processes um there's concern about sedimentation of water bodies and degradation of water quality and loss of Aquatic Life Support obviously there's no water bodies directly downhill of us uh related effects include soil loss the undying Bas salt trap the underlying uh Bas salt trap rock is very stable and resistant to freeze Tha Cycles um as is evidenced by the fact that we've got 77% slopes behind the house with with no shine signs of erosion so the underlying soil is good we're looking to add to that by coming up and creating flat zones that can be stabilized to slow water down um also warns up against changes of natural topography and drainage patterns we are not changing the drainage patterns and we're primarily in areas where the uh the Topography is not natural to begin with because it was modified when the home was built and as Brian indicated his approach towards the intercepts are really similar to the way that they're modeled after uh the the size and scope of the paths that exist now in the South Mountain reservation so clearly they're not doing any damage if they're put in by the South Mountain um there's increased flooding potential um clearly um we are limiting flooding potential reducing flooding potential not only for the basement of the existing home for for whatever would get out to syamore Road um and while that um gutter is pretty well defined and it water doesn't blow past it certainly we want to make sure that remains viable uh and it will in our plant um there's so certainly no increased flooding potential um and there's really no further fragmentation of forest inhabited areas um as Brian indicated this plan was very you know Brian knows every tree on that site if you point to a tree he'll tell you the size and species because he's lived eat eaten breathed this property and came up with all of the geometries that avoided uh and gave those CH trees chances of living and a tree replacement plan will be will be provided as is required by the uh the building department um and there's there certainly no compromise aesthetic values and other concern in the in the ordinance um we think that uh this is a beautiful house and will be one of the nicest homes on Sagamore Road when it's finished I would love to live across from this house uh water quality will be unaffected um and there's and there will be no increase in runoff because we're going to be we're going to meet the Township's storm water management ordinance if we can't do that for some reason um we can't build so we will do it we know how to build the Steep areas as I indicated U most of disturbs slopes disturbance is not natural storm mod will be appropriately managed for the reasons that we cited um we feel the development scheme represents a better planning alternative than uh trying to um work with the existing driveway um to try to minimize deep slopes disturbance Beyond uh the 50% we think we can give up I and again you know we put this on a diet again we put this on a diet before we ever got here and got to this plan and and I just kept over a year and a half we just kept saying you know what we need to do it and the numbers are what the numbers are because it's a unique property it's very challenged property so um and again the um we're in full compliance and underdeveloped in terms of all of the other metrics of the R4 Zone we think that it's uh it's been a it's been a um a difficult project to explain to a board in one or two hours or two and a half hours what we learned over an 18-month period but we've really thought about the details we think it's an improvement to the streetcape we think it solves n's problems of safety and water protection and also will be an enhancement to the neighborhood and I'm happy to answer any questions Rich any impacts on the master plan no clearly the master plan talks about uh pres preservation of the character neighborhoods and reinforcing the township as a residential community of the highest order I think um I can't see how this would cut against that in any way there's really no negative impact um and again I think uh I think this does everything we want the the master plan wants us to do um just one last question at some core level there's a balancing of the competing interests rebuilding the house preserving uh the slopes uh do you think that the plan that applicant and the team have come forward is is a fair balancing of the competing interests here this is this was a a hard bought hardfought Balancing Act from day one with the eight or nine schemes that we went through and certainly um we think this is the least impactful and most protective and I think it's why it was important for Brian to speak because I'm an engineering Guy Brian can talk about the the plant materials that that will will mimic uh what you see in the reservation it it really is a uh it was a difficult plan um when you keep looking at the numbers I I guarantee I'm convinced that every person on this board came to the this meeting today convinced that there was no way in hell they're getting a variance for that much steep slopes but we try to be very didactic and explain item by item which each of these areas is necessary and the areas where we think they're necessary but we think we can give a little we' we've offered a little give not my preferred scheme but I think we can we can live with it and so I think it does strike a balance thank you any questions from the board any questions from the audience any comments from the audience yes on down you have give you your name address and we will swear you in pleas ra your right hand do you SW from testimony about to give in this proceeding to be the truth whole truth about the truth yes your name spelling your name and your address Dorothy g d o r o t h y last name go o address 101 Sego Road I do have the um can I pass around sure pleas get to our yeah secretary finally is the common section till we get this okay yeah I just want to say finally it's a comment section so I don't have to be sto at by chairman doesn't make a difference between the comment or question as long as you don't get repetitive we're fine okay so before you start okay we're gonna first of all did you guys get I'm gonna give to them thank you we'll we'll share okay everybody has okay did did Mr skolik and his team get yes we did okay so we're going to mark this as 01 okay and 01 we're going to have with today's date January 22nd excuse me an 01 consists of three four five six pages yes correct okay and you created 01 yourself yes okay so as you go through even even though the pages aren't numbered um although I oh it looks like they've been P1 through what P6 yes okay so um as you go through it why don't you just describe what 01 consists of by P yes I will mention that okay once again I'm Dy have lived at 101 seg Road for almost 20 years when you know my house is on the left first of all I really appreciate the Melbourne Township zoning board to provide this public hearing opportunities for the neighborhood of residents to ask good questions and private comments to ensure responsible Redevelopment in our community I'm not against my neighbor to build a comfortable uh house you know for safe living but I do want to express my concern and objection to the 99 Sego VAR application on the following ground one lack of hardship and specific concerns Rel to my property and the potential detrimental impacts to the neighborhood so stat statement number one the hardship for the B VAR uh variance application relating to the existing driveway slope and the pre-development issue is not well and reasonable established and it is not unique to the property I want to highlight that steep slope driveway is a common and a shared characteristic of adjacent properties in this sore neighborhood almost 20 years ago when I purchased the 101 Seamore I told myself if I could drive up and down three times of the slope um this steep slope driveway I would buy this house I did purchase the house and drive up and down like a pro right now this so the point I want to make the steep slope and driveways and across public Street roads has been a consistent feature of our neighborhood for over 70 years at least the long existence of these driveways demonstrate their usability over the decades the proposed variants do not address a unique hardship when compared to other properties in the neighborhood driveways become temporary and usable during heavy snow this issue is not exclusive to steep slope driveway but affect uh affects all driveways equally once the snow is cleared these driveways uh return to normal use I purchased a bubble level digital app which can measure the slope of the hill and I did experimental test in my neighborhood so what I did I secured the iPhone with the app on the floor of the car in the front passenger seat side one person was driving and the other person was reading the slope number going interrupt here yeah what you're describing right now is that reflective on any of the pages on 01 not yet one comes to the point I will mention that okay you the data that you're about to present M um you haven't provided that to the board in any type of written form correct no okay go on okay so we um so one person drive one person reading the slope of driveway we drive up down five driveways one house is on the right of the 99 segment and three House on the Left of 101 second is 101 107 and 109 so the interest and they also are including 99 seore and the Cross Public Street this is midpole uh Street and this is U Mountain Avenue as a result 99 Seamore has the lowest slope rating among all the five driveways in the Mountain Avenue Maple Street it only had a 12 slope reading momentarily at the top of the driveway right dve here so how you get on this property huh how did you get on this property yeah I think let's uh I think let's separate the issue with the juning board did did you trespass to get these this St uh I w't yes okay then we're not going to hear it okay you can't you can't go on someone's property without their permission so my all the statements move on okay um you know one explanation is because the 99 maybe have a lowest one right um so my point want to make is you know um maybe the the method doesn't provide a precise uh slope reading but the same method it used in our driveway and cross street the comparison of the slope reading proves and supports that steep slope driveway is not a unique har 499 seore in the neighborhood additionally there are many other alternatives for slow driveway enhancement available without the need for variance the suggestions include widening the existing driveway incorporating more curves using um graphs now to raising the Elevate uh elevation level of the garage and the parking area and slightly and reasonably extending the driveway lens this is the first statement about hardship the second statement is existing detached um garage cause storm water runoff to adjacent property under the development Redevelopment plan the existing detached Gage um doesn't qualify as accessory use and needs to be removed to comply with the zooming code here we come to the picture number one you can see the existing detached garage is only 4.45 ft away from the property line by my driveway 101 Sego the Gage is about two uh two six feet higher from the top this is two feet and this is a six feet higher you know again is not another um non compliance um one it rings because the garage the garage blocks the water runoffs from the top of the hill and like is South Mountain reservation the water runoff will pass by the side of the grudge and come to my driveway over a period of time it certain damage the my driveway the rain water eroded the surface of the PVE the driveway and the ca tap you can see this one this is picture one and picture two also see the waters this picture were taken in a normal Ren day um in a week before the uh Thanksgiving you know at that time when we had a uh hearing um scheduled the December four December 4th uh a few years ago the 199 sore buried a black plastic pipe along the side of the garage to direct the storm water run off to the street that's in pictures three from the picture you can see the black pie P hangs over the retaining wall almost right next to my driveway entrance besides it is ugly this area also produce mold around the retaining wall and shows soil loss problem to the historical retaining wall in the Redevelopment plan they're going to dig the existing Foundation you know right next to the black pipe all to the ground to reopen a new driveway entrance and put a man-made decorative retaining wall on the top which is certainly not um will certainly not remediate the soil loss issue but accelerate further soil erosion uh even now with the black Dr uh dra pipe installed um the storm water run off keeps going to my driveway during heavy rains my key Point here is that under the Redevelopment the plan this existing problematic structure is no longer used as a garage it continue to have a pad on the top of it it certainly doesn't qualify as accessory use which should be U removed and brought to code confirmation you know uh I just mentioned a couple Jun code requirement for accessory use all the accessory use must to be buil construct in the rear yard and the minimum side um setback feed should be 12 fet uh in our four zones um number three statement new driveway entrance location breaks the wellestablished Harmony and the pattern of driveway entrance in the neighborhood changes the exclusive surrounding near my driveway entrance which will impair the value of my property as I mentioned before briefly that there are 31 house on the hillside of sore Road in melbour almost like 80% 25 houses have driveway entrance from the right to the left of property of street they are all properly and nicely spaced and situated in the section near 91 99 seore 10 house all have driveway entrance from the right to the left 99 seore has the lot wide um lot 170 3 fet and wider than any of these houses they could have easily enhanced the existing driveway let runs from the right to the left with limit uh disturbance instead they designed the new driveway Crossing from almost the bottom left of the property to the higher upper um right side of the property the new driveway entrance you know will will be only like eight feet uh away from my driver entrance it will also face and be closed the two other driveway entrance across the street yeah remember the driveway um the seal road is already narrow just to fit two cars that can go to opposite direction at the same time um you see picture um picture four the location of the new driveway entrance is not only not appealing to the surrounding neighborhood and impact my property value it will also be situ situated with such close U proximity with three other Drive Entrance which cause unnecessary congestions for the four neighbors and additional cars on the street you know the picture for you can see there's 101 seore and the 100 driveway and 5 fet away is 98 driveway then 99 seg more uh new driveway you know will be double the size of the car right there and they are also going to dig the foundation to the ground open the new entrance it will certainly impact the stability of the foundation online property um if you look at the um p u picture five you know this is aerial view shows um how close the uh and crowded these four driveways 101 99 100 98 on the same side if you look at 99 seore they're going to have almost like a 200 fees available from that new driveway entrance to the other driveway um 97 uh second more on the other day when I was you know back to picture four you the other day when I was trying drive the car down from one1 sigal and the neighbor from 100 driveway and try to move the car to the street there's no way we can drive at the same time so one have to stop to make sure one person leave the next person can move and and again on the picture for you know um the you can see the uh the electri utility poles you know public and shared water electricity and gas lines are also buried in the hill in this area it also will destroy a big portion of the historical retaining wall owned by MBR Township for over at least 100 years so um during The Question uh section we talk about you know there is no code against the where they put the driver entries but I'm just asking the question uh question to the board member um don't be offended if you leave 101 seg more if your neighbor on 9 try to build you know relocate the driveway entrance Right five8 feet right next to you and the crowd it you know it breaks the Harmony and is you know you don't you're not going to like it you I be with that so statement four potential that detrimental impacts on the neighborhood outweigh the benefits the proposed Redevelopment will disturb the wellestablished and solid nature Foundation at such extreme extents on on you know such large scale that is you know even is revised is like 14 times more than allowed 100 1,000 square feet uh the retaining wall variance uh will destroy the existing natural retaining wall structure and the trees and create a massive man-made retaining walls that are too close to each other not complying with the Zan code you know I one B member asked are you you're thinking the stone will fall that was first my reaction too but besides that I didn't look uh on one um on Segal Road there are house have the similar retaining walls they comply with cold but also is ugly they're so crowded and it just uh um doesn't me you know blend in with the natural um Beauty on the surrounding of the one one um the seg road so I just want list the couple you know detrimental impact including you know first the new Redevelopment will appear out places and disrupt the established AE Aesthetics it doesn't blend into the rural and forested scenery that defines our neighborhood number two if you look the um picture six that's the the how many trees has you know I counted and Mark in the front yard near to my side 14 and four and the 40 in the backyard about like 20 is approximately the plan will remove more than 70 healthy trees in the front side and the backyard their removal not only Alters aesthetic look of the area but also has the potential to adversely disturb the foundation of the net the Aral picture here serve as a testament to the current charm of our surroundings showcasing the canopy of trees that contribute to to the character of our neighborhood number four the disturbance of soil at such extreme large scale will destroy and jeopardize the wellestablished foundation of the entire neighborhood posing greater risk to the stability of the soil the storm water system and the foundation which has sustained years of storms heavy rain in the winds number five the removal of a large portion of the historical retaining wall and the soil EXC uh excavation by digging the hill to the street level will significantly disturb and shake the existing and surrounding Foundation which will lead to undesirable and problematic instability uh the number six the public electricity um utility poles are on and around the property line between 101 and the 19 9 Segar as you can see before in the picture uh three and four which also rais concerns about the shared water gas and electricity utility lines buried in the Hill Foundation unforeseen encounters with these lines during construction may lead to unfavorable and uncontrollable catastrophe posing risk to the neighborhood even the variance application has self-disclosure about the potential variance in the location of underground utility requires the need for careful consideration and the mitigation U measures finally in summary in the interest of preserving the Integrity of the neighborhood and ensuring the well-being of all residents I strongly urge the zooming board to care carefully evaluate the potential impacts of this um proposed variance on the adjoining um property striking a balance between Redevelopment need and the Pres uh preservation of the existing and sustainability in uh sustainable environment of our community uh picture number six look at all these trees and the previous presenter made a comment and they know every single tree on the um on the property I really hope before the board approve that they can have a plan shows all these trees which tree will be removed for the record thank you all thank you so given that it's 11 pm um sorry Tim um Mr scolnick you have any bules any of that no okay then in that case I will close the sorry oh is there any other comment do you have any comments no no no you need raise your right hand you s from testimony about proed yes your name and address your name lean rockitz Lea and Ne rockowitz r k w TZ and I live at 93 Sagamore um so I was I was just going to say that I think all the issues were were very well um explained uh some of the challenges with having steep slope lot um and um while the point was made that it's not unique to this property I think anyone living at one of these properties would uh want to be able to to develop a driveway so that they could safely access their house um and there's benefit to the neighborhood for doing doing that as well um but you know certainly um leave it to the board to uh you know weigh the the pros and cons of of every of everyone's interests I do want to make the comments um for her um I need can cannot answer her comment with another comment no I want to address the yeah have no question I just make a comment you know uh as I mentioned um wait wait wait wait wait wait wait another member of the public had an opportunity to speak okay whether it's in favor or against the application members of the public and board members have an opportunity to question any member of the public who wishes to speak for or against an application do you have a question for that witness no I want to support her uh one comment her dryway important yeah you I think you've had your your time so thank you uh any other comments from the audience truth the whole truth truth yes I do your name and SP h n r y last name z z z h n g as in George I'm Corner 101 second okay so I know he's we late 11:00 um I got a quick question so one question first question is that why question is comment only so you have a comment regarding this case Okay so there's a there's a Zing call here so we said that so basically my my major concern is there's two key issue here one is the mo limitation because I'm over 100% if they want to rebuild the whole house I'm 100% for it the only concern I have is the driveway because the driveway they have the driver is in there for hundreds of years at least 100 years so there's there's a layer for for po purpose is is a Integrity because the thing that why I'm worried about is when they break it the Integrity of the whole slope is not just for their house it's the ad property not just the next to me or downhill every all property will be got imp impacted it's not just the only one so the inquir is that is there for over 100 years so that's dway the previous owner nobody have any complaint whatever that for the issue for the driveway so why they want to keep they don't want to keep the original garage with elevator they have elevators build in there about 10 years ago so they have even they said that in the in the driveway they have elevator already building against the code of the township and is accessible you can drive in there you take the elevator up to your your your your your house so why they want to build a new new garage instead of using the old one and abandon old garage there because that one is already a violation of the code so you just you want to keep the something in violation there intact and then build something else that is just you know I just cannot you know think about it and the second one is that because the all the how many variation you need you right you need four variation or five how many variation you need and the degree of the variation you want is 400% you just look at that see 100% of of the variance that you need to have doing that sometimes some is over 10 times of variance so the code there is for purpose you all engineer there set up the code you debate it you set it into the code put in the book that is for the one purpose specific specifically for the slope slope stop and you say that do the variance to that kind of degree is UN imaginable because if you approve it why we need the code there we don't need we just throw out a book right we don't need any book there so what I'm saying that how many variance you need and the degree that you want to do it that's all my concern I just want the Integrity of the whole street there that's all I'm concerned the driveway you want to build a house I'm go for it present thank you thank you any other comment from the audience anything else no I close public portion of the hearing uh board members your thoughts start I um I have to say that um you were right when I when I took a look at the application initially um I was like they they must be out of their minds um but after listening to this presentation seeing the plans I actually think this is an extremely thoughtful um sensitive plan and um I think it's very clear that there is a hardship here um I I I don't you know I know that one of the neighbors said it's not unique um because all the houses on that on that side of the street have steep slopes but I mean it's it's certainly a hardship so whether they're the only house that has that extreme of a hardship or not it's still a hardship it's a safety concern um I think they've made a very clear case that they've satisfied you know they've met both C1 C2 criteria um and I would actually go so far as to say that I am in favor of keeping the I'm going to use the color code purple and yellow um portion in the backyard I think that sometimes as a board we get really really caught up in the numbers I just want to make sure that if we're going to make them cut it in half we're not we're not get you know doing it for the sake of lowering the numbers when it's really going to be more beneficial to not only the homeowner but the entire neighborhood to um keep it as is um and I think that they've made a very good case for being beneficial to the whole neighborhood to be able to slow down um some of that water um you know we've we've heard concerns from um you know members of the audience um who you know bring up things about um you know the tree removal um the storm water the the Integrity of the you know of the property um that's what we have experts for we have experts that the um applicant themselves have hired we have experts in the town um to you know make decisions about tree removal and rep planting and storm water management um so I really think that they're that they're um covered in you know in all those areas um and I would be I would be in favor of you know supporting the application thank you more comments can I go after that um sure I want to thank Miss glat for mentioning the yellow and purple width I agree with her as well well if if you know making it smaller is going to have any impact negative impact on the rainwater keep it the way it is um that that that was the one thing that jumped out on me I agree with this clot as well is saying that we sometimes concentrate on the numbers too much we lose sight of the fact of what you're trying to do here um additionally I thought it was a great presentation um I could see that obviously that some of the neighbors feel very very impassionate about what's going on but I think that as far as the driveway that's they're allowed to put a driveway where they're where you can where your property faces out of um I think it gets a little confusing where people think they own the driveway when they get to the edge beyond their property boundary and they're in the public right away so I would be in favor of the application so I'll go next I I agree with what's been said so far um you know my thoughts on the driveway I wholeheartedly agree with with the comment that Mr Keller made about having the driveways more grouped together to provide more parking on the street I have had firsthand problems with this where you have driveways that exit in random spots cars getting backed into it does provide significant more more parking on a street I that my own Street was problem the way the driveways are all set up uh so I I actually think it will become beneficial I realize the neighbors may not think of that now but it will actually in the long run be beneficial for parking on the street um you know as for this driveway look you know to build a house today and not have proper safe access to your home is silly I realized that this driveway existed for you know 7500 years whatever it may be but clearly back then um Vehicles weren't the size they were or at all existed um and you know today we're in a very different situation so to have driveway where you can get cars off the street and and uh have access to a home directly I think isn't it's not a luxury it's it's something that that really should be in proper planning today so um you know with the purple and yellow my thoughts are if if it if the same result could happen and reduce it by 50% and get the same result I would be in favor of eliminating some of it in the sense that do you really need to get a tracked vehicle up through the backyard I think that's a little bit over the top but um you know if the same thing can be happen with 50% less steep slope deviation in the backyard I mean I would be in favor of that so I uh i' defer to anyone else that wants to make a comment make a comment but you guys can go first so just quickly I I mean I agree with all those comments I I do think with respect to to the to the purple and the yellow I also would I mean I would not want you to reduce that to the extent that it had any impact on the Water Management I do think it's it's it's a bit much um to have it um for the purpose of getting uh Vehicles up there I was influenced I think a little bit by the by the drawing which maybe the scale but it makes it look like it's a massive kind of Road and maybe when I hear it's actually 8 feet that doesn't seem so big to me uh but when you look at the picture I mean it looks as big if not bigger than the than the uh the driveway the driveway or half the house so that seems a little bit scale out of scale but so that's why I had a very negative reaction to that but if it really is only 8 feet I still would prefer five but um I'm not so troubled by it at eight I think this was a very thoughtful plan um it's it's me the needs of the owner it's also you know responsive to how we are you know in the day and age that we live uh and and in terms of where we are where this property is located you know right in front of massive waterfall um I think very thoughtfully you know designed in terms of how you want to manage water in terms of keeping it on your property and then kind of taking it out uh the driveway I I hear the concerns uh I'm sure there'll be experts you know who will kind of review from the Milburn Township as well in terms of how that works I'm not in favor of a very long driveway but I see that you know this is thoughtful in terms of the longer you keep it the Lesser slope and you know kind of take the grade naturally up so I think from that perspective too I thought this was thoughtful from many angles thank you um I agree with all my colleagues so far so I don't want to repeat what they've said I just want to say it's a very cool neighborhood uh your location um beautiful I can understand why you want to stay stay there and make it work for you given the challenges you've had I'm sorry for all those challenges by the way um I I also think it's a very tasteful design very cool um and I and the fact that you're keeping it basically in the same footprint you're making an attempt to do that I appreciate that and I think it fits into the neighborhood well the architectural design um I think as you pointed out the experts will make sure that any plans you have for uh water mitigation and soil conservation and erosion will be addressed by the township experts they are mandated to have a sto a storm management plan and that will go to the township Engineers to make sure that there is no negative impact to the community on that um two more things um it is a challenging driveway I walked your driveway um I went up and the shoes I'm wearing now they're waterproof boots and I went up in my little heels and I regretted that um I looked down and I went oh now I have to go down um and that was just walking so and it was good weather so I was like this is this is um while all the driveways are sloped that yours is uniquely challenging because of the walls which were really scary it was like a Lou somebody said L and that's exactly what I thought you should monetize that L run um lastly um I hear the neighbors comments about the driveways and how they will meet up I actually live in a house for my driveway is back up right to someone else's drive we just we rely on our car beeps we look carefully and thank goodness you know that that can be mitigated by just careful driving so I would be in favor of the application I I I didn't think I would when the meeting started but you done a very good presentation um wish Lu uh in that case uh any comments from you have any comment over there uh in that case do I have a motion I would like to make a second thank you Joseph callfield yes Shandra AR Johnny Yes Gary Rosen yes Regina trit yes Priscilla s yes good one yes yes good luck with the project I need 10 minutes question 10 minutes no shot you need 10 minutes definitely don't put Mr wait wait wait wait minutes s it's a 10 J it's it's like 100 I you that no no it's 100 square feet of one bedroom is 9 by8 one ofing I can tell you right now it's really really reasonable I know you say that I I think it's a 10 if you don't like it we'll push I mean we'll push after I start no put on the next meeting first I just to than you all very disappointed by the thank and we'll go to the court what's the date what's date ith okay uh for anyone here in the audience regarding application 35 5923 that matter is going to move to February 5th um at 50m would Place some Short Hills no further notice will be given otherwise there any other comments from the crowd uh on regarding anything that was not on the agenda this evening it's not g I have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second second all those in favor great evening folks