with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public wall 1975 be advised noce this meeting was made by posting on the bulleon board town hall and mail to the officially designated newspapers list of the meetings dates annually indicating this meeting will take place at the Town Hall at 7 pm that's the biggest run on sentence ever but uh Monday November 20th 2023 here here here here Vice chair M here here um we're going to start this evening with a bunch ofor realizations and then we'll dump right into our applications uh first up we have calendar 391022 triple one Holdings LLC um any corrections or changes on that memorialization um who's eligible these all the same or no um eligible to vote on this are Gary Regina Jessica Craig um can I have a motion second guy Rosen yes TR yes Jessica glad yes yes next up we calendar 39 3923 Lawrence and Lauren CRA at 44 Lake uh same shandrew Gary Regina Jessica great any any corrections or changes to that moralization if not I have a motion I move appr I'll second Sean yes Gary Rosen yes TR yes Jessica glad yes yes next up 39423 Aaron and Emily Prince at 50 Lake um any cors or changes same same appr motion motion to approve I can second shrew horani yes Gary Rosen yesina TR yes Jessica Glatt yes very yes calendar 39 4123 Yun sayyan Wang uh toll Fairview uh shrew Regina Jessica Craig any corrections or changes have a motion please make a motion to approve calendar 3941 d23 I can second Andre yes yes J glad yes yes calendar 39 42 23 uh abanov Aral 39 38 Hillside shandrew Jessica any correction or changes have a motion move approval second sh yes J glad yes yes lastly 39 5623 Danielle for solley 15 o Drive shandrew Regina Jessica Craig any changes of Corrections have motion approve it second yes yes just yes yes first up we have application 39 4923 46 far FL car adjust good evening hi who's going sing this evening all yes everyone just raise their right hand please swear from testimony about to give in tonight's proceeding to be the truth the whole truth not the truth yes yes go through your name sorry Mr Timothy CL oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I started to spell it that's what to do I just got used to it s lur sidar ji Harrison Bary uh you how you been testifying tonight what capacity for engineering engineering okay um you g start off or yeah U I was gonna let let them start off real quick then I was gonna go go to him and maybe come back to me great okay thanks all right you the FL yours yeah uh so we purchased the a lot like first thing we were looking into shill for primarily the education of our daughter she is five and we looked we found this opportunity where this lot came on the market which is 46 power drive uh we purchased uh Tim already had developed plans for the previous owner we also had talk to him liked his plans we purchased a lot on in December of 20 uh 22 uh we have already started construction uh the construction is about halfway we planning to finish it so that we can um our daughter can attend the school year next year in Melbourne and uh the main reason why we are here is as the property stands now we don't have a backyard and we would definitely like to have one for for our family to enjoy the lot and uh we'll obviously need the technicals to Temp but yeah just addition we don't have a level backyard we have a backyard but it is having a very steep slope so it's uh not very usable the way it stands right now so that is where we um reach out to Tim to help us with this and I think we'll let him give you the details super uh licensed archit in New York and New Jersey and I've been licensed for 30 years my uh license is in good standing and paid up thank you the um I started this house initially for uh one of the bird boys who was now moving back into town and then he got transferred to Singapore so um I went back and forth with him about if you should keep the house and we just build it let it sit till he came back and then he decided that instead of that he was going to put it on the market and what we're doing tonight is exactly the same thing as what we were planning to do when I was doing it for Matt is that we would file for a building permit with our allowable disturbance of about a th of a thousand square feet because remember that we can disturb a steep slope we can have a th000 square feet of steep slopes disturbance on on any lot in town so that would be true in Glenwood with a 6,000 foot lot and that's also true here with I guess about a 21,000 foot lot we're still limited by a th000 square feet um like and I'm only saying that because the quantity disturbance doesn't increase as the lot size increases just the way the ordinance is written so we were able to get the house started so we could we Disturbed th000 square feet to enable to get into the driveway to get into this site and the idea was to get the house sort of framed up and while it was framed up go through the process of obtaining a variance for the backyard and with the um with Matt it was a much bigger development he had two tiers of this backyard and it had a pool on the lower tier and we're probably disturbing um I know about 20% of the lot area okay tonight we're really asking for a VAR a variance to disturb I think it's 2 483 Square fet now that's in addition to the 958 that we were credited with the initial permit right so that is really our request tonight is for about disturbance of about 10% of the total lot area of this lot and this lot itself has a total steep slope of I think somewhere around 32% of the lot area it's a bad lot when we looked at it initially we knew we were gonna have to do something in order to get a level back yard and I'm just gonna not go into this any further and let Harrison do it because he's really the engineer and then I'll come back and sort of sum up a little bit but just before I do that I want to just put in an a couple of exhibits okay so these are 10 drawings that are not part of the application sheets no okay ahead also tell me about that building coverage thing like why it went from requesting a variance to not um because at one point we thought that you want to do it you want me to this is the one with the we weren't sure if the deck was in building coverage but the decks don't count in building coverage it was a misunderstanding okay that's all it was um I I should actually also say that the building coverage is a little lower than what's presently approved by the town because we as part of this application we removed some of the building coverage in what's presently under construction Tim before you even mark one other question if if this application for variance relief is denied you said that the pro the building is like 50% completed does that um have any impact on the applicant's ability to finish the project as was submitted to the building department no no go ahead and mark the drawings that are filed are conforming but I'm saying you could finish the project if you yes so what i is A1 A1 I don't know what to do here because they got a couple of sheets all right so so uh why don't you Mark if it's a set why don't you mark it as A1 and then as you go through your testimony you're all identified different sheets okay this is my first sheet which we called exhibit one it's really the front elevation of the building as it is built today it's not 100% sided in finish the grade isn't finalized but this is actually the final building this area over here where we come into the garage is where we have that thousand square feet of De of steep slope disturbance that we've already taken we going to now just go to the rear elevation how many how many sheets total are in one this is it just the two just exhibit exhibit one and and exhibit two is this A2 or you we're going to keep this and I just want you to see in the rear elevation and reason why I did this in the office is because the dotted line that's coming through here on this diagonal is the existing grade as it abuts the building and our ask tonight is to cut in this area and to fill in this area right you get the idea what I'm saying I'm cutting pulling the grade out so that we can sort of level off the backyard and that's really what the request is that we're talking about is to cut in this area and to fill over in that area and then finally I think this would probably be exhibit to which is a a little bit hard to see but it's some existing photos of the site as it sits today okay I guess I guess I would call this A2 and you can see again the front elev of the building upper left hand corner and then we come across the back this is the existing rear yard it's kind of sloping down on from the house and goes down to that little culdesac that's behind I think it's Princeton I think the little culdesac back there and um you can see that it's really a pretty steep slope and this one photo in the lower right hand corner is I think the best to start to understand it but you can see that right about there we're about 5T below the first floor whereas on the other side we're actually about two and a half feet above the first floor so that's the request of what we're asking for tonight we're not asking to do it on the entire backyard we're asking to do it I think it's closer to about a third of the backyard but I'm not Paris some with Noth better of than me and you can kind of see that line again here how the grade is falling off and the intent is just to get a um a relatively level area that they can use as a yard okay and it's um we're not attempting to level the entire site just about I I would say it's about a quarter or a third of the backyard okay with that said I'd like to pass it on to harison any questions for Mr that back area would be grass yes yes we we grasp the level area but the other area is staying as is it's sort of um they actually want to make a little nature trail through it it's kind of pretty back there I'm assuming that the engineers going to talk about what the definition is of steep slopes and what the deviation is yes correct and any type of tree disturbance that okay for those of the audience that are here on this case not sure if anyone's here but uh I'll open up for questioning once the engineer has made his testimony and if you have questions to Mr classie he'll heal those at that time okay um you want me to go through my credentials or okay start with your name okay ahead um Harrison Barney I worked for E2 project management located in Rockway New Jersey 87 hiberia Avenue um and I attended uh Ruckers University for my Bachelor's of Science and Engineering I've been practicing engineering roughly 10 years now um and I've had my license for a bit over a year now and I've testified for a few boards uh city of summit Township of Morris uh Harding Township just to name a few I do have a licensed I'm a licensed engineer in New Jersey uh it's it is current and in good standing continue okay um so just to kind of piggyback on what Mr clessie um had gone over um this was a previous application uh back in April of 2022 that was approved and essentially the changes that are being made are some changes to mostly to the rear yard and based on the Chang to the rear yard other minor changes have been made based on that major change um again we were previously requesting building coverage variants which we had listed on our drawings which we no longer are as what was previously discussed uh the deck no longer counts as building coverage so our number that was previously listed as building coverage on our plans as 3,433 Square fet actually now is reduced down to 2,762 square F feet which is is 13.2% of the lot area which is now in compliance so no we are no longer asking for a variance for building coverage we are only asking for a variance for the steep slope disturbance um and the plans I'm referring to today are um were prepared and signed by me uh identified as revision B dated July 14 2023 and the the first page figure one if you look to the right the proposed steep slope area map um the area shaded in Orange is the steep slope area which is calculated as any slopes greater than 20% or one foot for every five foot horizontal um distance um for counted as a two foot uh interval for contouring so you count every two foot um intervals and if you're over exceed 20% slope that is considered a steep slope um the area outlined in red here was the previous area of disturbance from the approved plan and the area now dotted in black is our new area of disturbance so as you can see as you head towards the rear of the yard there is more steep slopes therefore we have more steep slope disturbance um the natural Topography of the site slopes from the street from the southeast to the Northwest at this far Corner that is your low point of the site so that is where um your storm water run off and your just natural slopes are going today um the back of this site is wooded and the previous um number of trees that were to be removed that was approved was 18 trees and that has increased to 32 trees um in total and that's again mainly just due to the disturbance in the rear yard and the flattening of that rear space to be more functional essentially for the family um so I just wanted to really go over what what was approved and then what we're we're proposing and kind of the differences in the two just so the board can understand understand what the changes are you have a question before you do that yeah in terms of the tree removal yeah do you identify on the plan I believe you do the uh diameter breast height of all those trees yeah we um I believe it's six inches in caliper in height and greater we identify all those trees and they vary in size from about 6 inches to I think 38 inches is the largest tree there's only one fairly large tree that's being come out and as you head to the rear the site there's still a significant amount of larger trees that we're preserving and keeping intact so there still is a good buffer to the neighbor to the rear and we did keep that in mind with the the grading of the backyard your play to that I'm not aware of we can't speak to after us just you refer to an approved plan was that a plan that the variance previous plan no just a lock plan okay yeah there's no variances and I was just going to quickly go through kind of the the main features of that approved plan um so the previous plan as I said dated April 20th um the building coverage that was proposed was 14% which is just in compliance the imperious coverage was 24.8% which was also in compliance the rear yard setback was 95.9 ft and again the approved number of trees to be removed was 18 trees and that with our proposed plans I'll flip now to our proposed s you can see and the the plan here to the left on the second p on the second page that is the approved site plan for the last application just for reference so we kind of compare in both side to side so you can see the differences with our proposed plan um again 32 trees to be removed maintaining a wooded buffer in the rear to the neighbor um we're proposing the two and half story home which was already approved from the last application all wait wait stop so you keep saying application okay this that application there's no application before this board correct no this isn't this is just in reference to the approved plans that Mr cusy had referred to back in April from the previous owner the burs so I just want the lock grading plans yeah no understand right and they didn't require V correct about no they got they were approved for building permit so I just wanted to kind of go over the changes from the building permit to what we're proposing now so the board can understand what can be built versus what we're asking if you don't want me to I don't have to go further detail it's what you should so the building department approved plans you constructed a a project half done you now are asking for a variance for steep slope disturbance correct so explain where the steep slope disturbance is which I think you're starting to do yeah um it would be helpful to show what trees are actually going to be removed as a result of the steep slope disturbance versus the regular construction disturbance sure and then also identify the level of steep slope I understand that anything over 20% is counted as a steep slope but I think it would be interesting to the board and the public as to what degree of of slope is being disturbed is it 20% is a 30% for So based on the thing I also want you to address the th square feet you're took yes you're at a th already like exactly a thousand I don't know current currently I don't know what the exact disturbances of this site today we approved for 958 and you're permitted a thousand and our new our new disturbance we're proposing is 3443 so it's a difference of 2489 85 yeah okay so again referring to the the front page the two lines the limit of disturbance the area between the red and the black here that is the area where the additional trees are being removed and they're they're outlined if you go from the existing driveway and you go back those trees are the 14 trees that are additional to be removed as far as the steep slope goes as far as categorizing the steep slopes and percentages we did we didn't do that because the ordinance doesn't call for a categorized teep slope calculation it only calls for what exceeds 20% so that's what we prepared and that's the limit of disturbance that we're showing however if you look at the topography as you go closer to the rear of the site in the corner it does get steeper based on the the closeness of the you know topography lines so the area that we're actually disturbing is a more flat area rather than if you go towards the corner the back of the site where it drops off it's it's more steep in that area um so I hope that answered your question with regard to these steep slopes that you're disturbing yes were they are they natural steep slopes or are they manmade steep slopes from some other developments they appear to be naturally steep slopes I took a site visit out there and there's you know vegetation out there the trees there's uh some mature trees out there um evidence that they've been there for quite a while and if there's any lock grading around there filling when not probably would you know kill the some of those trees so it see appears to be more naturally occurring and I'd like to just flip to the second page again our proposed plan I'm not going to go into the changes from the the last plans that were submitted but um basically like Mr classy was saying and the our clients proposing the flat uh the backyard to be a more flat backyard so it's fun it's more functional for the family so what we're doing is we're putting a retain wall around the perimeter of the site it does range in height from about three feet to six feet as you head more toward the north that's where the the wall gets higher um as this you know slopes get get lower and uh we're going to be preparing you know stability calculations and retaining wall calculations for that anything over 4T in height you have to prepare um and ALS Al we are proposing dry Wells to capture the impervious coverage for the site and that in the ordinance is you're provide you have to provide 250 cubic feet for every thousand square feet of imperious coverage so what we're doing is we're capturing the roof area um the walkways and the driveway area and we actually have an inlet in the driveway area in the corner for some reason it's turned off on our plan but it should be there um so your driveway comes down from the street and slopes towards that corner of the driveway so we're capturing that water and we're also capturing a portion of the backyard in this yard Inlet which is going to be directed to those dry Wells and we also have roof leaders from the house which is being directed to those dry Wells as well we are also proposing a rainwater harvesting tank uh that is shown here it's a c circular tank uh it's basically you know a green infrastructure type of elements reuse of rain water so you collect your rain Waters mainly from your your roof area which is a more clean storm water doesn't need to be filtered and it's going to be collected in that tank and there'll be like a small pump put in there and be used for irrigation purposes for you know watering the plants or the lawn um and the changes too um you know the driveway like I said slows from the street and uh you know we're proposing the a three Bay garage which is which is compliance with the zone and that's basically it for my testimony uh we still need to do soil tting for the dry Wells I should add um it's a glacial tail Rel Zone it's a boot and substratum type of soil based on web soil survey and uh it is rated at class C uh hydraulic rating so it isn't the best but again we need to do Sol testing to to check that check for the groundwater table where that's at and um you know we'll work with the engineer with the results that we have the township engineer what happens if uh the soil testing results in not be able to use those dryes so there's different different ways to go it's you know if this if the ground groundw table is High um you can do some storage like detention systems or maybe you can route you know the roof leader water at least to the street I did notice a lot of the the houses in the area and based on where we are in the town in front of in front of the the dwelling in front of the lot is a high point of the road so here the the natural surface water will run down the street to the North and then as you go to the South it goes to the South there's no storm water inlets directly in front of the house and all the properties there have their uh their roof leaders per se or potentially some pumps discharge into the the roadway from the curb so that could be a potential charge um it's it's been done before obviously don't want to that's not the path do we want to go if you want to retain water okay so that's that's not going to be propos it so we'll have to do a detention system well the front yard is a higher elevation So based on the invert and the slopes we wanted to put in the back here because that's where the natural Topography of the the site goes it's easier with a gravity line to feed it down towards the back but we we we do have other options they do make systems out there for detention they do make shallow retention you know gravel with uh with perforated piping so there are other ways other ways to to capture the storm water run off and that that concludes my testimony really I'm sure it's obvious to everybody else but can you just show me on this map where is it going to be flat where it's going to be the shirt yeah back here so this this is the the dwell in shade in dark BR and then you have the deck here which is a crosshatch and then there's some steps that go down and this entire area in the back here is what's going to be flat you can see the our contouring so it slopes from grade 102 to 101 it's a it's a shallower grade slope than what was there before I agree with Mr Rosen I'm a little confused because Mr Cy had said it was going to be just sort of the sides and leveling it out but that's it sounds like it is going to be most of the backyard is that correct it's it's about 3 to 4,000 additional square feet based on the limit of disturbance I don't have an exact area you know say from the back of the deck to the wall I don't have that number for you tonight but um it's around 3 to 4,000 square feet based on the difference in disturbance which is mostly in the back of the site I had a question on the prior slide you the red dotted line and black dotted line yes so that's not the only area that's going to be flattened out but you're going to go beyond the black dotted line as well as if I just heard correctly no so this this black died line that is the limit of this of our disturbance we're not disturbing any land past that line that is the total grading disturbance so this dotted line back here the black line that's essentially the perimeter of your wall That's following the wall line anything beyond that is going to remain as it is today anything before that the house is what's going to be flattened out and then and then it falls off then I would imagine because it's naturally going down that's correct yes can I ask another question is this area ever flooded do you know I don't it's not in a flood flood area and it's actually at a higher elevation than some of the properties around um So based on the FEMA mapping there is no it's not a flood Hazard area and I didn't see any evidence of flooding out there any like erosion or what not do you know if any of the neighbors have ever flooded or there's been any flood because we've had a couple of any major storms in the past five years 10 years I'm I'm not aware of that no we'll get to you in a second yeah um I'm sorry anything else so know I visit this site I don't necessarily agree that these are naturally occurring steep slopes but um the I mean it it almost seems like you're taking that existing fill that's against the back of the house and trying to push it out the back towards the back is that correct yeah we're we're balance we're trying to balance the S trying to obviously we're going to have Phil in the back of the yard because it does drop off so that will be have Elations what it's done we don't have any side elevations but we do have a detail of a retaining wall that's going to be you know how the maximum High retaining wall is going to be and how it's going to be constructed keep that up so got back raining wall say be six feet high then the property line is the the line that's on the outside right now they notice that yard falls off pretty bad pretty hard back there 6et 6ot is the highest the wall will be and that's only in this area here it drops down to 4T this this is only the twoot wall here so it varies obviously around the site based on the existing topography and where we how we graded the site but six foot is the worst case scenario and it's only in a small area here so it's not going to look massive you know from the naked eye from down below um and it's actually improving the drainage because we're leveling off the area and we're capturing some of the water as to where before it wasn't being captured at all and it's just flowing down this steep slope you know into this yard down here so we're actually improving the site stability wise and drainage wise with the retaining wall what kind of walls you have front I notic like that that that driver is substantially lower right here yeah what are those size those are well those are segmental retaining walls okay these are already built and these are no not the ones against on the house right here yeah that side that's there's nothing aboutt there yeah these These are fairly uh fairly this is only a foot high this is a foot and a half so yeah only yeah it has to be regraded looks a bit deceiving I guess from the roadway it's going to be regraded yeah you going to be able to access the area beyond the contain walls for maintenance and other purposes yes we're right here we're pro proposing a step so you can walk down to the rear you know for maintenance and accessibility the back corner that that's a patio um I don't know if the client wants to speak to that that's a patio they wanted for uh yeah if you want I me uh we like in the previous plans there was this area was actually the covered porch with like a fire pit and all that so we took that off which was like 250 or so square feet we thought that while we are leveling the back at this might be a good spot or laying down chairs or something in the summer we wanted provision for that it's about 125 Square ft but again are we really married to that probably not it's just felt that this was a natural space where you could have all these uh what do you call the fence and the retaining wall nice place to like spend some time and out in the nature with and one thing that's he said like uh here it's pretty much flat like you can just step down and we want to make a nature trail out so one reason we also pulled down these walls like we didn't go all the way because we wanted to make sure that the tree cover is there which we definitely love but so we try to make it a balance between having a reasonably big yard where we can also facilitate putting a ring or harvesting plant drive so on with some more space that is reasonable enough but having a balance to keep the wood cover the tree cover all that you know they're hoping to take the undisturbed area and develop a nature that's she wants to do it with her dad that's a project I want to do with my dad um so we just want to put in some favers there and then it is a nice area for my kid to go and play as well like we live in a city right now so she doesn't have that and particularly in Co being close to Nature was a big thing for us that's something we missed and that's when we started looking for homes and we love Milbourne because it's clean it has good schools it has perfect accessibility to the city so it checked all the boxes and this is a big plunge for us because we it's obviously you know it's a substantial investment so we want to make the most out out of this house to make sure that we can establish some boots here and give a good environment for a kid with so that's that's the whole idea so it's not really we're not uh trying to do something crazy there we we really like to have the green Greenery around it was actually very hard for me when they were just cutting down trees because that was the whole thing we didn't really want that but uh yeah and that's why we try to limit our exactly disturbances so that we can maintain at least trees as much as we could like this is a quite a big tree this quite a big tree but one of the trees is right right against the house which again has to be probably removed for like just because it can like it's leading on the building like one of the pictures that had that tree right how big is the grass area like in terms of width I can scale I'd say that's just just like how big is that you talking wi no I just wanty to figure out what it is 50 yeah 50 to 55t Middle this is like okay this is pretty much black right talking about a grass area that's closer to about 45 by 50 feet is what we're talking about I just want to make sure everybody understands that all of this is this area that we're leaving natural we're just trying to create a space kind of big enough to sort of kick a soccer ball around we're not trying to you double tier the backyard and level it I did have the here anybody here the neighbor you the one that called me wait wait oh no I'm sorry but I did have a neighbor call me who I think is the neighbor behind Okay and we went I went over the plan with that okay um the the 38 in caliper tree [Applause] this is this is difficult because you don't have your true removal plan superimposed over your construction plans but just trying to eyeball it is there a way that you could achieve your goal of leveling off the backyard area and and maintain that tree 97 well if we if we keep the tree our proposed grade there is about 3 ft High so that may may cause enough disturbance to kill the tree if you're adding that much soil to the the base of it so you essentially have to try to keep the same elevations so you're saying there's no way to prevent the cut and fill from killing that tree you could do a tree well that's an option to put a kind of cinder block or protection around the tree and that could uh potentially save that tree to the [Music] house driveway forward yeah yeah I think that tree is not even in the area it's beyond the retainable unless I just these things at same is it isn't the under the existing conditions in demolition plan yes isn't isn't the area that's being I guess fenced off isn't that within the limits of disturbance right so the that dark dash line is your limit of disturbance essentially following the wall so anything inside of that those are the trees wall yes it borders the walls even I mean the the same line is shown on at the CL PL this is the same one see how it falls around so that tree is right in here right I mean it's that tree is right in there we're going from about 98 to 101 yeah it's about 3ot differ it's about a 3ot difference any other questions probably save it we'd have to drop the gr how how level is how to be to play soccer well it's only it's only a two foot slope essentially across the entire backyard so it's very now from south to North this is the way it's sling yeah yeah any other questions from the board before I open up just one quick you might have said this already forgive me for um being done if you been answered already are you creating any Cliffs by this leveling and then the drop off the natural no so we proposing a 4 foot fence around this the high part of the the wall which is shown here just in front so that's providing you know a safety ra so you are creating a little bit of a cliff in the fence yeah six foot drop is the the largest yeah so um so the fence has to be maintained or there will be a cliff oh yes yeah it will be maintained thank you okay uh at this point I opened up to the audience for questions only of uh professionals so if you have a question please come on down mik your address please uh my name is Jeff Frankle my wife and I live in the the house next door of 40 farbrook our house is quite a bit lower as you know yes uh and I just wanted to get the Assurance hold on a second Mr Fran can you just identify um going to the engineering plan where your house is in relation to right nor no well if you're facing if you're facing their house we're on the on the right yeah yeah your question okay yeah I just wanted we're just seeking assurance that the runoff uh that was not going to run on to uh to our property which is considerably lower U than than this project sure yeah right so you know we're proposing the retaining walls and there's one already built there so the retaining walls they have a drainage pipe beneath that you know collects the seepage of water and directs the water outward there is a pipe right now for this wall That's headed um out which we're going to direct you know down down to the West this is where the natural uh Channel runs to to this the back corner so the runoff will head this way and anything collected here so based on our Topography of the proposed grading in the back and the rear all this area right here will come to this drain which is being collected this small area here is what potentially run off but this is all natural that was already running off to your site we're capturing more storm water and detaining it on our site rather than what it was before which was running naturally onto your site so there should be less storm water runoff going towards your site than there is you know today yeah thank you any other questions from the audience regarding this application sarch of comments now uh anyone the audience have any comments regarding applications first it's a big ask um it's it's quite a few feet over variance uh as described and um it concerns me little the trees concern me um of course the cliff I would want to have the the fence and perpetuity to protect the cliff people from falling off the abyss the six feet six foot cliff but it's a lot it's a big ask I'm anxious to hear what my colleagues think you know when I look at these houses that are built new on these Lots it always baffles me when a house gets built out the maximum building coverage in a lot and then all of a sudden it's like a now what situation and we're seeing this more and more and more um I don't see where're disturbing you know what is it 20 6 2600 2500 whatever is square feet to gain 2400 square feet um it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense and this is the Topography of the lot I mean that should have been thought about when this house was built you know if this house was scaled down or something along those lines it could have been addressed now of a sudden the house is built and it's wait a minute we have no backyard um I'm not really sure that's going to be something that I'm will to uh uh make a decision on to to have happened so I wait everyone else's thoughts I guess you know my thought is that you know we we we have this deep slope you know disturbance we we have these parameters for it and you know and I I know relatively recently you know um applicants are now allowed to disturb even more you know and my question is kind of when do we get to the point where it really is just too much and it's going to be detrimental to the entire neighborhood um and looking at this application I wonder if we're at that point with this ask yeah agree I mean you know a little further on that you know you're right you're disturbing a total here of 3443 square fet a lot that's 20,9 so now we're well over you know what 15% or more of a lot so I agree I me now it's gotten to the point where you know these things the past you sort said okay but now it's it's such a huge deviation from we typically see yeah I agree with comments but Rob can I just ask the standard like what do we what is a standard for for something like this well you know the this is a both variance so either you can determine that the property owner has suffered a hardship due to the existing conditions of the land and here it's a little bit different because it's not like this property is completely sloped to begin with and is Virgin land and you know you don't want it to end up in an inverse condemnation situation so we're going to allow some disturbance so you can make some some use of the property so here they clearly and that's why I asked Mr CL at the beginning well what happens if this board denies the application you're still going to be able to make use of the property certainly um so you can you know determine that that okay these are steep slopes and they're uh you heard from the testimony of the engineer that they're naturally made so therefore there's a hard you know you can I guess argue that there's a hardship due to the existing conditions a lot or you can make a determination under the flexible C2 criteria uh that the benefits of the dev steep slope deviation outweigh uh the detriments and this is a better zoning alternative for the property under the C so that's what you're you're left with um any other questions sorry just Qui question for you um so the township engineer will look at this and make sure from a drainage point of view that it's safe after if we were to approve this with the engineer make sure that the drainage is I I do always feel that when an applicant like here um presents some storm water mitigation um I think that can fairly be taken into account by the board in determining whe whether to Grant the relief um that ultimately it will go to the township engineer um they're going to have to do some testing got to determine where the groundwater table is if the groundw table is too high you're going to need an alternate approach that's why I also asked what are you going to do if it FS so the, Square ft that was allowed that was utilized at the time of construction now we extra 2500 uh look I mean there's also been change of hands in terms of U uh ownership so I guess new owner did come in with a little bit of a um I mean they they they could make a decision saying yes this is what has has been approved and we are okay to go with it but now that you know they need I'm willing to you know consider a little bit maybe less than 2500 if that's something which could be acceptable to the members because uh clearly I mean keeping in mind it's not like at the start when this was made into constructed in this way to your point right that they were party to it and now that you know they come in uh Al be it with full knowledge that yeah buying a lot yeah so that would be you know my thought but again you know irrespective of whether they were aware that the Thousand K been used or not it's still a area that to be leveled so feels like it's a lot more than the ask is clearly you know a lot I totally on board but whether we want to consider something in that's something which you know something right sorry we'd like to push uh sor is that that um next will be December 18th it's okay with me is PR yeah yeah all right 18 thanks for all your input thanks so for those of you that are here tonight me to December 18th we for Testimony at that time so this application has been carried to the board meeting of December 18th at 7 o'clock in this room and no further notice will be provided by the app next up we have calendar 39523 29 Winding Way good evening happy holidays to all I'm representing ashito Sharma guys guys guys folksy folks I'm loud enough to scream over anybody in all circumstances okay real quick it be various corre do I'm counting six members six MERS so you started are you comfortable can we proceed and get a sense of where the board is and absolutely if that's okay we're all here we're paying for the experts tonight if that's okay that just to make you aware of your I'm an expert in counting board members after doing this for a little bit good okay you guys can sit down down so uh my client as to Sharma is here and we're at 29 Winding Way we're identified as block 1711 lot 11 on the tax maps an R6 Zone this is a house renovation we do have some variances including a d variance we suggest that overall the relief is quite modest and reasonable on building coverage were at 24.5% with 23% permitted in the r six zone so the deviation is 1.5% or 144 square feet on the building coverage on floor area ratio we're 1% over with 37% proposed 36% uh permitted that's just 96 square feet we suggest that the deviations are modest and really what we're trying to get at is the design and Aesthetics we we believe that the design uh and the Aesthetics can be accommodated uh by the lot we have somewhat of a peculiar location on a curved part of Winding Way that leaves us with two front yards and no rear yards and as we've pointed out in the application package we have a front yard setback for the proposed garage on the left hand side of the structure and we also have a front yard setback on the light on the right related to the proposed porch in the second floor we have our architect tonight Keith genopis and then Mr Lonzo Fama is going to handle any engineering issues and the planning testimony so with that chairman we'll call the architect super wellif fire Keith you want to come on up and we'll get you then just you SAR testim to tonight proceeding do the truth hold truth un the truth I do your name for the record spelling your name please Keith chopos g i a n a k o p o u l okay could you provide your professional qualifications for the board please sure um I'm a registered architect in state New Jersey uh since 1996 uh I attended Pratt University where I received my bachelor of architecture in 1992 and I've been practicing architecture since graduation and you're licensed in New Jersey yes and have you testified in front of planning and zoning boards in the state yes yes many times and you've been recognized as an expert by those boards yes I have can you just give us two or three of them uh Morristown Morris Township of Vera a month ago um uh yeah I mean ceds I think chairman we appreciate that okay can you run through the program here Keith sure sure you mind if I share your space here yeah sure okay U so I was uh engaged by the sharmas uh to design an addition to their home um to modernize it enlarge and you know keeping in mind the key elements of usability efficiency sustainability and security so some of the the the key things that they were looking at when they decided to you know increase the size of their home um the existing conditions uh briefly mentioned by Rich um the existing home is it's a dated Cape Cod um it's one and a half story structure with a single loaded uh front loaded garage and a curving shallow lot so the lot is very long as you could you could see in the engineering drawings and and not that deep uh it's located in kind of a U-shaped neighborhood uh with similar sized cape cods and modest sized um Colonials I'd say um a few of the houses seem to have been renovated so there are some that are larger um but the balance of them the majority are smaller houses with front loaded garages um so the existing home currently has four bedrooms and two and a half baths but as I stated it's not really suitable for today's living standards the rooms are small size um not a lot of storage and um you know they're looking to upgrade to accommodate the um the Sha's needs developed their program with an initial concept to increase the garage capacity think keep them in mind like in indoor charging for uh electric vehicles um increasing the interior room so l space uh kitchen great room type spaces uh and and creating more of a modern floor plan and and with that also trying to increase the uh curb appeal uh adding a front porch um Design Elements and aspects of similar um features found in the neighborhood but um but kind of brought up to a little bit the next level um so let me just sorry I just lost my place here um the the other idea that I had with the you know initial concept was was that any work we do any any expansion that we do um I'd like to minimize the setbacks on the sides we have two side yards and there's a there's a a single story structure that juts out a little bit from the main portion of the house um so the idea was to remove that single story structure and decrease the amount of uh setback to the house and create that addition up and to toward the the rear the rear yard um and with that creating um twocc car garage rotated facing the side which is technically the front because we have this sloping front yard you want to use the plans a little bit call it out so these are the sheets in the package call out your sheet numbers while you go along ct1 is is the the renderings the main rendering of the house um and the Curve of the street allows me to rotate the garage keeping the front wall intact so the really the front wall if you look down at the existing house the front corners of the house and the front of the existing garage are the front Corners in the front of the mud room here which we converted the garage to in the design um and then the garage is stepped back a bit and flows with the curvature the the street so you know the idea was to not increase the uh the front yard setback and any of the other sidey guard setbacks but to decrease but maintain that front yard um and only the front porch is what is um you know encroaching on that front yard setback um the existing house is non-conforming on the front yard but my idea was to not make that any worse are you making it worse well with the only with the porch yes yeah the the actual front wall of the house is remains and we went straight up and then the porch was added and again it's a modest porch um six feet deep not anything crazy more for the design aesthetic of the house and for some protection when when they have visitors over um they get packages from Amazon just you know uh protection from the elements okay so adding that garage on the side and the um and the porch kicked us over slightly over the F and the uh building coverage by one and a half and 1% um and what we did was rotate also the driveway so the driveway right now is coming up directly into this part of the house here he hey Keith I'm sorry I'm interrupting you why don't you refer to Mr lonzo's plans even just to orient the board sure I have it to where your elevation sits and both the existing house versus the proposed house yeah okay so just call this out this is of farm this plan that's in the file right yes this is the the F the plan that was filed um Mike had sent me a copy um so the front portion of the house if you look at U the engineering plan sheet one um the front of the house here is what is existing to remain going up and then the Garage addition occurs on the side steps back and across the rear and then what you'll see in the back right corner is that one story structure that's being removed and trimmed off to be to align with the existing side of the house and align with the new addition in the rear and then the front porch you can see here is that six feet in addition to the front you still comply with the front yard setback corre the the front so the front yard setback average um um might well testify to that but um it's a pre-existing non-conforming that I did not intend to make worse with the building but the porch does encroach do not correct correct keep hearing that we comply no comply at all no no you're you're correct we don't comply I my intention was to not make it worse with the building yes but you are I mean I don't care if it's a port or not that's the building yes so you are making it worse yes okay just want to get that straight you're not making worse but you're 100% off but okay so okay uh with the uh rotation of the driveway uh it becomes longer more usable a little wider but we're we're still under and again Mike will testify to this but we're still under the um imperious coverage numbers so I touched on some of this you know kind of already but the the idea was to maintain that existing footprint of the house in the front um and use similar massing in the design to the neighbors and um and create a a a structure house that would be comfortable for the sharmas we did an onsuite bedroom in the first floor for Mrs sharma's elderly parents and that would give them the opportunity to age into the home age in place um and then the open rooms as I stated before to give the house more of a modern feel on the outside we're using materials that would be sustainable and maintenance free we're we're proposing Hardy plank siding for the horizontal clap birs and the vertical Warden battens um standing seam metal for the roof on the porch and asphalt shingles for the main roof and then cultured stone as an accent on that first floor with the columns um so to recap um my testimony uh the the positive aspects that I see are increased usability the design aesthetic curb appeal um decreasing the distances to the sidey yards and um really protection from the elements the use of the garage for unpacking groceries and snow and rain and the front porch for any visitors um and also thinking about deterring theft a lot of cars getting stolen recently so to have the cars in the garage at night is a you know is a a really good uh good thing to have so I mean that concludes my testimony um now you know free feel free to shoot some questions at me so your Lots 9600 square feet The Zone requires 6,000 or 60% larger why do you have an F in Building Company I I I stated earlier that the um the addition of the garage the garage is counted in the F so that kind of hurts the livable area that's left so to try to balance the livable area with the garage area uh I did come uh 1% over can you get rid of the 1% um with with a redesign of the the the house the the front Corners are set so any you understand you have an enormous lock right yet you're still going more I understand so to decrease any square footage really would be from the back of the house uh we added you get it's up to you right well my intention was to not um mess with those front corners and to to maintain that from the street so if say that from the street so how how how much further forward is this house existing house from the neighbor's house at 39 uh I believe it's I'll let Mike testify to that but I believe it's 15 to 20 feet different because we're on the curve and we have a longer lot so the other houses are set back further how many houses are set 17 feet off the street in that neighborhood so we only reviewed uh six houses on three in each Direction but my guess is on the rest on the curve on the other side there'd be a similar condition because of that horseshoe you would have similar layout houses well that's not my question but okay I'll wait for M okay any other questions for the AR yeah I um a question did you how how many other houses on the street have front porches front porches two or three two I think one directly across the street and one down a little bit um there are three or four porticos just you know in front of the front door um and then at the end of the street cross um is that Pines pin p Pine um there's a a house with a full porch across the front similar to what we're proposing did you consider um a portago versus like the full front P yeah yeah we we did so taking into account the Portico versus the front porch it saves us on the building coverage but then we're still um over on the F so it's a different look it's a different design but um but we did look at that as well you think this has any benefits versus a portico what we have here terms of the Aesthetics Keith that's a question I'm sorry your um in my personal opinion a full designed it you designed it you you knew that it was a variance why did you why did you put that in my in my opinion the the full front porch gives a better curb appeal as I mentioned earlier to the look of the house um and to improve the um you know the neighborhood and the aesthetic of the neighborhoods so of course it could be smaller but from an AR tectural standpoint we think this has some benefit to the community overall stattic I do and and the idea was to do it more as a a protection and as an aesthetic so it only goes out six feet it's not an eight or 10 foot porch that that would push us almost to the street so that wasn't Our intention the intention was to you know create something that gave us good curb appeal functionality and um and you know that the the Chas would you know appreciate the design okay the chairman ask could you comply he says why didn't you come here with a a complying plan you got a big lot so what was your thinking on that so what would it take to comply and would it make any difference at the end given the scope of the Delta here we're only talking about 96 square feet on the F would it make any difference from you know do you think any material difference do you think it's possible to build a nice house and have it conform yeah yes that's that's you know really yes it's just it's it's it's a factor of like I said before um kind of marrying how much living space we have versus how much garage space we have so adding that second car garage kind of kicked me over but I may chairman that is not the legal standard so we're gonna talk about that because you could always make it smaller but that's not the standard is under so during the beginning of your testimony I believe you commented that most of the homes in this neighborhood Med neighborhood were the I think you said like old C cods that's how you described it cape cods and Colonials yeah cape cods and Colonials right and a couple ranches in designing this house did you identify other homes in the neighborhood that had excessive FS I did not calculate FS for other properties um only what we can visually see from the street and our design is not trying to go over the top and create something that's not you know the there are I think I mentioned two houses on the street and around the corner that are similar bulk sizes um and that's kind of what the the houses that hadn't been touched right are not really appropo to to you know use as an example so we look to some houses it's the neighborhood it's the neighborhood right right so um those houses that are the bigger houses I guess those are the Colonials you're referring to and and the renovated houses and the renovated houses okay did you did you check to see um from the tax records approximately how many square feet those properties are those houses are no I did and what about um same answer for regarding building coverage no I did not still go quick question so what is the square footage of the front 6 feet by it's 6 feet by uh 40 43t I think okay 263 squet Mr alono F announces from the Jeep seats second row seats seats that's like your house is setback it's like 17t away that's not that far right 43 feet long and six feet deep so what's what if we multiply it 43 time 6 2 okay well Mr Lonzo I'll give you the precise numbers but that accounts for the more than it counts for the overage on building coverage on the building coverage so it's it's the front porch what's the I'm sorry Rick what's the um what's the Delta on the building coverage n the building coverage is 144 square feet and the f is 97 square feet 97 or 96 uh it's actually 97 okay thank you any other questions for Arch any questions from the audience for the architect comments will be in line councelor turn back to you I call Mike Lon ofama an expert in the field of civil engineering and professional planning you can have them sworn please you swear airm testimony about to give tonight's proceeding be the truth full truth the truth I do my name is Michael lonz ofama that's a n Za f ma I'm a licensed professional engineer Lance of a and planner licensed in the state of New Jersey I'm a principal with the firm of Casey and Keller Incorporated 258 Main Street Milbourne New Jersey um I've been licensed as a professional engineer and planner since 1984 and I've testified before this board on numerous occasions and my licenses are all current how long have you been coming to this board for Michael I don't know 30 years is that as an observer or from the cheap seats yeah from the che seat an observer from the cheap seats either way qualification acceptance thank thank you very much um so what we've put up on the easel is an exhibit we've prepared for this hearing using uh the software called near Maps which gives you good quality uh aial imagery uh of the subject property the property as you know is tax lot 11 and block 1711 and is located in the R6 Zone District hang on one second sorry your assistant was thank you A1 A1 aerial photo the record so as you can see that the property itself is located in that Southeast corner of the Winding Way Loop uh Pine terce is further to the west and about approximately 430 feet um the subdivision that actually created these Lots was known as paon Hill back in 1940 so with the break of World War II most of the houses were constructed um late 40s early 50s this particular house was constructed in 1950 and and it is a typical Cape Cod type house one and a half stories with Dormers uh up towards the roof the property is 9,624 ft in size where 6,000 square F feet is required uh in the R6 Zone uh we have 189 ft of Frontage uh creating a corner lot situation so that each of the sidelines are considered side yards and not rear yards um the the Westerly line is approximately 75 feet in length the southerly line is about 135 ft uh in length um as the architect explained um the objective of the application was to upgrade the house to modern day standards to provide u a way in which the family could age uh into the house that's why there's re uh we show a master on the first floor as well as the second floor um and to just bring it up to uh the 2023 standards uh we thought that the covered porch would make a nice amenity it actually breaks up the facade of the house and does a good uh presentation to the streetcape um just let's go through the numbers to see where we're at um when you look at the front yard setback we actually have two because we're a corner lot so you take a line and you BCT uh the front yard so you have a uh required uh front yard setback As you move to the South and as you move to the West so the southerly required front yard setback based upon the ordinance which is the three adjoining properties uh to the West comes out to 37 Feet um and currently the existing structure uh is 2.83 feet um let's just go over to the Sur this is a survey as part of the package that was submitted so I don't believe we need to I apologize sure can you just clarify like I see the North End okay and it's I must be missing something because you keep referring to sort of the right side as the West the west but yet but the arrow makes it seems like it should be the East just this this is north east west south right okay so when I so when I refer this is when we say the front yard setback as it relates to the West I call it the West I mean the lots that exist to the west of our property when I refer to the south I mean the properties that exist to the south of our property okay that's how we defined it I didn't see any other way to okay do it I guess I could have used well not really no but it was I could have did one and two we're calling the garage the South correct to make it simple for Mr sign the garage is the South yeah all right go ahead okay so the existing setback off the corner of the garage is 21. 83 feet required is 37 based upon the average as prescribed in your ordinance the um this setback will be held as the architect pointed out as Keith pointed out he held that corner and that actually becomes the mud room in the future the new garage which would extend out is actually slightly back by two feet it's uh 2316 feet so we need a variance for the introduction of the new garage into that required 37 foot setback but also for the addition of the mass of the building vertically that also intrudes into the front yard set pack so we need a variance for that as well the Western Frontage the setback average is 41.7 feet uh existing uh at the front corner is 22.8 4 feet and with the introduction of the porch that's going to be reduced to 17.27% so those are the two variances with regard to the front yard setback side yard setback is compliant as a matter of fact as Keith pointed out this little uh projection on the back of the building will be removed and that setback would be increased from 17.06 feet to 21.6 feet um the left side uh Set Side yard setback will be increased from 16.3 to 19 .8 lot coverage is compliant it will be increasing from 21 uh from 218 Square F feet to 3550 which would bring us up to 36.9% where 45% is permitted building coverage is another variance in which we are seeking permitted under the code is 23% currently we're at 16.5% and that number would be going up to 24.5% so allowed would be 2,214 square feet proposed is 20 2,358 or 144 square feet I'll just call out your sheet number there after the record sheet number two uh in the plan set so you can see the reduction in the building corner here opening up the side yard setbacks to the west and to the South you can see the area shaded in blue represent the new uh building area that's proposed on the south and east side of the building this would be the two-car garage area this would be the mudroom and the Blue Area you see the rectangular area across the front is the new porch uh everything in the hatched area is is the original building footprint that is being uh extended vertically the uh porch the front porch is 263 square feet inide so to answer some of the questions if that porch were to be reduced yes you could could make the uh building coverage compliant um floor area ratio what's permitted is 36 % or 3,465 Square ft we're proposing 3,562 square feet so we're over by 97 square feet the um front yard coverages are compliant um the allowed is 30% we're going to be at 29.2% Building height is compliant the number of stories are compliant so you can see that the many of the metrics that are assigned to the R6 zone are being adhered to uh with this particular application obviously our toughest hurdle is the D4 variants associated with the F and hearing board members why why can't we just simply become compliant I think what the architect was trying to relate was the fact that when you start to work out all the moving parts and all the pieces that have to come together to make this house function and and still work for for the owners not just now but in the future is he needed that few extra square feet to make this work and I what we have to look at is how that mass is impacting the neighborhood and the and the zoning ordinance in the zoning plan because keep in mind that an F variance is all about massing it's a control a way to control Mass because we have a permitted use it's not like a D1 variance where we have to prove um special reasons uh in in the sense of um that the property is is specifically suited for that use in this particular case what we have to demonstrate is will the site accommodate the problems associated with that additional F and I I think the answer here is yes you can see from the overall lock coverage you can see from the building height the number of Stories the increased setbacks on the sidey yards that we can accommodate this massing and then when you look at Keith's plan I think what's really key here is his ability to break up the mass especially when you look at this particular particular facade granted we're go we're going up we're intruding yes we are intruding into that front yard set back with this additional Mass but look at the variation in in roof lines the introduction of Dormers um it really creates a very aesthetically pleasing situation on this particular corner and in this neighborhood and if it were my neighborhood I'd be I would really be happy to living next door uh to this particular structure um the problems that you always worry about is the loss of light air and open space the overwhelming character and scale uh to the neighborhood I think this can fit in and can work on this property without overwhelming it um as I said before the uh overall lck coverage is compliant height is is compliant number of stories and uh side yard setbacks and the Delta is 97 that's what I said no no no 97 oh you're just you're just chiming in yes oh okay okay so the architect has integrated the the excess Mass into the structure so as to maintain the this the character of that original house you can see it almost like grows out of that original house so I think he's done an excellent job and I think the covered porch actually breaks up the mass even further even though it does intrude into that front yard setback I think I think it is a nice uh element and it is open it's not like it's a fully enclosed uh covered porch um the variances for for building coverage and for front yard setbacks uh obviously the front yard setback we have a an extremely peculiar lot situation here we have a lawfully existing structure that already violates uh the front yard setback so it would be virtually impossible to add anything to this structure without some type of variance uh being required and I think by uh the efforts made here this evening and and by Keith over a significant period of time I think he's developed something that's aesthetically pleasing um that uh the expansion reorientation of the garage I think is very important you can see the the front facing garage is now a two-car side entry garage I think that also enhances uh the overall development um the existing uh as I said is existing structure already violates the front yard setback uh any any existing dwelling or expansion of the existing dwelling would exacerbate at the need or the non-con formity um the location and configuration of the existing house um the front porch moves out 5.57 feet closer to the Westerly Street line um the new garage Edition will be slightly setback further than the original setback of the building but it does intrude into that average front yard setback uh the second floor addition will encroach into the front yard to the same extent as the first level however the articulation and sloping of the roof lines softens the impact on the intrusion uh into the setbacks um as far as the negative criteria goes um I don't see any substantial detriment to the public good I think the architect has done a good job in making the addition um making it home a contemporary standards uh for the owners uh from the street the house will become an attract addition to the neighborhood the impact on the closest to joining homes will be minimal due to the removal of the back corner of the of the structure so actually increasing uh the setback from their structure to the adjoining properties um when you look at the master plan the 2018 master plan uh it talks about promoting the character uh of the township is a small suburban area of high quality I think that's exactly what this structure does I think it does promotee it I think it does give something of quality to the neighborhood that it's going to be located in um so in in my opinion I I believe that uh the variances also would would Advance several of the goals of the municipal land use law which is the positive criteria um and that's the general welfare by uh bringing this home up to current day standards with amenities and the ability to age in place into this structure um it definitely promotes a desirable visual environment to creative development techniques and good design um so I I think it does that and I I think it's really important to understand the need um for families to want to remain in their home for a protracted period of time um my own experience um my wife and I are aging in place in our home we've we've gotten we have five bedrooms well the other four bedrooms are usually filled with grandkids and kids visiting on holidays and I think that's what this family would like to do they'd like to accommodate their elderly uh mother and father now and themselves in the near future and I think these are all important elements that the board should consider uh in making their determination so I'd be happy to answer any questions Mike I just want to bring something out I've been I've been trying to make the point uh you did too that inherently there's some weighing uh whether we're asking for C2 but in inherently in the process there's some Weighing on terms of the order of magnitude so here we're talking about4 square feet on building coverage 14 oh excuse me 144 and only the 97 square feet so how do you see that in terms of as well that's what I was trying to point out that the the numbers we were asking for is the Minimus and that really would the building wouldn't look much differ if it were compliant um yet at the same time um it the porch especially I think is really an excellent element to consider in this and I think it's worthwhile I think the Aesthetics of it is is worth that extra 144 square feet right uh any questions M did you take a look at what I was asking the architect yes yes it did and um most of the homes in the area range from about 1,00 square feet to up to 28 or 2900 square feet and what's the square footage 3524 3,524 24 oh I'm sorry 3562 sorry and what about um did you take a look at uh for for building c i i really I I didn't other than when you look at the aerial image that I brought exhibit A1 exhibit A1 I think that gives you a good sense of a comparison for example you you look at the structure here immediately across the street versus our footprint this building um many of them are close or similar in size as far as uh square footage goes but you're comparing the current building to no no with the blue you see the blue here not okay so if you if you look at that footprint versus for example this footprint or that footprint how much we're larger we're larger Mike why don't you come back to your variant drawing actually leave that one up second um so when I came approach this house I approached it from the West it's incredibly prominent when you approach it from the West uh how much further in front of it does it sit than 39 which is to the house to the right uh 39 is at I have the setbacks here than thank you so conforms yes um yeah it's the the well the average is 41.7 so technically it does um how many houses in that neighborhood is set a 17 feet off the street just uh there's it's only the houses I I should have gotten up at the corner it's only when around the bends this one this one and then up at the corner here those are the only ones for some reason the the Corner Lots when they built these homes they pushed them closer to the street right are those set at 17 ft though those other homes no no no not at 17 no but they're they're similar to the setback that we have of about 21 and those houses Colonials no I think I think this one is a a cape or a ranch it's a ranch I think questions two questions the at the back you have this blue strip in your uh how wide is that is that also 6 feet addition behind the garage the bdroom part it's an 8ot expansion 8ot expansion and how long would that be like again another 40 if you look on the architectural floor plans you'll see the dimensions um I think it's 6 429 it's 429 42 feet 9 in by 8 feet is the expansion that's this expansion right here so based on you know all that you heard about you 17 ft did you consider building the house because you're adding 8 ft at the back that you start you've taken the two corners right now the current existing corners and you built on there but pushing it back by two ft so that kind of solves your we utilizing the existing building footprint this is the existing building structure and we're trying to go vertical from that we were not trying to modify that at all because then you're talking about reconstructing the footing in the foundation that makes it we that is exactly what we're doing we are going straight back with but then also adding garage on the corner to to get the access from the side I think I think the question was why couldn't we push the house back two feet right because you're adding at the back anyways so you know that that sort of solves your problems right I mean if you because it's 47 ft or 50 ft wide if you go behind you solve for your F right there it would be 100 square feet release but but I think oh what you're saying is make the B house smaller sure yeah yeah comp just just a question if you that was considered just to kind of be compliant yeah we we did look at making the house compliant but as Keith pointed out as he developed the plan and and the rooms all fit together we felt that 97 square feet um and it's being accommodated at the rear of the of the structure would not be overburdening the neighborhood and the appearance of the structure it it's really really wouldn't look any different if it were compliant or 97 square feet over and that that's what we were trying to convey and we felt that the architect did such a good job in the Aesthetics of the structure that maybe it's worth the 97 square feet and that's why we're here Mike this is a in the back right so you can see it on this drawing with the blue in the back but guess the question is if you if you chopped a foot off would anybody really notice would it be would it be any benefit to the community and and that's a judgment call that's a judgment call because you could always make it smaller if if something came off the back at the back right would would it right yeah we're making the argument that a foot off the back is not going to make a difference to the neighbor at all that's the Judgment call and and we think if you if you look at the project in total it's a it's it's reasonable and modest given our numbers 1% over and 144 square feet over that uh could comply argument uh uh is uh it's possible physically possible it often is to make it smaller but is there going to be any real benefit to the community on that given the overall context that's that's the facts we're we're trying to convey as best we can any other questions I will open up to the audience for questions regarding this case any the audience a question regarding this anyt any wites here anyone in the audience have a comment regarding this case like I I think the board has uh the facts here I think the the sellan point is that the relief is modest we're we're not going to come and say the house couldn't be smaller but we think we have a very aesthetically pleasing front porch you can make that smaller into a a portico and take down some of 144 feet you could take a foot off the back but to what real benefit to what real B technical compliance but that's why we have boards that give relief when things make sense uh and that are reasonable uh we put a lot of thought into it I know the architect it we don't come lightly because when you're 1% over you say why don't you just make it go all the way but there were a lot of compromises along the way we think it's an excellent design and we request the board's votes we do need five out of six chairman heard me before I don't want to walk away so we'd like to try to get your thoughts absolutely you know we think it makes sense uh and we'll go from there great then that case I'll close the public portion board members your thoughts I am not bothered by the f I think that the um the house can you know accommodate the additional um is it 97 square feet without um you know without causing any detriment um to the neighborhood what what concerns me a little bit more is the um building coverage by way of the um the setback because the house is already pushed pretty close to the street um and you know looking at the the the renderings of the house I think that the porch looks nice but my concern is is it going to be too overpowering because you're you know pushing this house even closer to the um you know to the to the front of the street so I'd be curious to know what yeah I'd agree I think I think that massing is going to be a big problem here um I think that by having it this large of a home push that forward on the lot and closer even to the street than it currently is is going to be absolutely detrimental to the street scape so I would not I would not be in favor of uh the way it's currently presented F included yeah but I agree with those comments I mean I am I'm less troubled by the F but I I just as I you know not far from this area and and just looking at the neighborhood I do feel like um when you look at the house in isolation I mean it's it's I think the plans are well done but but I worry about how close it is to the street and the massing of it on that street and feel like it's going to be it's going to feel bigger than the houses around it and so I'm a little bit concerned about that similar similar comments um say I think you've done a beautiful job it's it's it's a beautiful plan but my concern is it's a very long property on a very long skinny um plot of land and I and I believe that the the porch actually maximizes that appearance that it's really long for that lot and for that neighbor neighborhood I drove around the neighborhood and every the majority of the houses are pretty modest and pretty small there is a couple of other very large houses and they did stick out to be like oh that's a big one um and I I worried that that this could POS possibly have the same effect but I think the long porch actually makes your eye think that this is really long property for that for that long skinny plot so I would I would uh be more comfortable if and the setback if the setback um was your thoughts could we have five ready for a break could we take five minutes to talk to the client and we're moving on is taking a break I remember doing some on Zoom where I went three and a half hours but no three four no breaks so we're notna play Let's Make a Deal here okay so want us to vote on this we vote on this we not start I hear you I hear you I hear you could we get the December 18 date to come back because I don't think we're going to negotiate you're suggesting we're going to do this we're going to do that we rethink some things so a month is not too bad as you know for this board so do we think everybody's going to be here on December 18th as we Mo be here tonight but things happen okay yeah so I I'd like to say yes but you're Zone at that time i' like to say yes okay I I think that's that's good yeah we I'm going to take it with the usual announce Rob isre giving me the big ey so we we'll take B okay so ladies and gentlemen this application is being carried until the boards December 18 2023 meeting 7 o'clock same place no further notice will be provided by the app okay chair we'll get it we have to get the plans in 10 days so that's tight but we're gonna try to make it if we can if we can we'll let you know okay thank you all right thank you the calendar 39 5323 uh 85 M Street I know but I mean serious you [Applause] can conratulations okay so who will be speaking this evening everyone come on up let's everybody in everybody everyone raise your right hand s firm testimony about to give proceeding hi Mason Allen m a s o n a l l n thank uh Thomas Conway c n w a y do you want who's gonna start off they are oh yeah you're just gonna talk to introduce yourself okay hi I'm Alana Allen I live at 85 Maple Street we've lived there since 2010 so 13 years um the house is a 1928 uh French Norman style home uh we love the character of the house we're not looking to make any changes to that um we just want to make some modifications to the back of the home so that it is more livable for our family we have three daughters who are now teenagers um and we have two um back sections of the house that here was an addition that predated us to the kitchen and this area is an inclosed sun room we'd like to connect the spaces um since we no longer have a dining room because we converted that during Co into an office where my husband works um now full-time from home so we no longer have a dining room um and uh these two spaces are not currently connected so we can't convert the sun room uh into a dining room and have easy access to the kitchen uh so those are really the only changes other than um converting the existing deck um uh to a patio um that is actually smaller in size than the carton de great just qualifications real quick uh Tom Conway I'm a architect and partner at Rosen Kelly Conway architecture and design I've been in front of you all um a few times uh I've have a undergrad uh Bachelor of environmental design and architecture from Miami University a master's of architecture and historic preservation uh from uh University of Washington Seattle uh I've been practicing for decades I a for close to 40 years but uh under registration I'm currently licensed in the St New Jersey it's about 15 years probably for that and I've presented in front um my current standing is good with the state of New Jersey and I presented in front of South Orange Maplewood the whole train line pretty much except for I think Morris PLS but all the way out um so um mostly um I work in these historic properties um my uh background in historic preservation and architecture has led me I've been a chairman of the summit HBC for the past 10 years I just retired and I feel awesome about it so I'm no no no longer what doing what you're doing so um so I work mostly on asor houses thank you kid accepted thank you so I'm gonna try to go with the summary because I started with this because as we talked about this is a French Norman style it's not a high French Norman which often would have Towers but it has a lot of the the Steep roofs the difference of material the stucco Etc so we want to make sure that anything we were doing on the back was contextual what's kind of back here now is kind of uh in a technical term fugly so we want to change all of that is that is that a capital f a capital capital F with exclamation but we're taking off this kind of Lan deck and it's all over paved in the back right back here there's like a patio and a deck and it just looks kind of like I don't know what but it doesn't look appropriate to this the the architecture of the house so um so I wanted to let you know that um the two variances are direct result of a lot width so the property is only 50 ft wide um what's required in this zone is 75 ft wide and you'll see that the the property is very very narrow and very long it's actually longer than what's actually required but it had doesn't have living space on the sides what does make this better is because Maple like all this whole neighborhood is very steep so the houses step down so you don't have everybody kind of wedged right against each other so it actually has a very pleasing feel to it um and so that narrowness of only having 50 feet when you put the 12 feet required on each side that only leaves 26 feet for house which is you know a garage is 24 by 24 so that gives you a sense of how wide the house would have to be so what we're trying to do um on this is bring the property more into Conformity and put everything on the back the only thing we're adding on the front of the house is a bracketed portico so it doesn't require VAR and that is um and it doesn't project very deep so that is a French Norman in style it'll have a standing steam metal roof and a metal bracket which we've been looking at the architecture and we picked that one because we liked it so much and we thought it would really enhance the look Pard me a look of the front it'll just tuck in right into this piece we actually don't even have to touch the stco except right up there so it's a it's a just a nice enh um so the um uh the goal of the projects is to create a more as as they U mentioned a more functional kitchen uh improved circulation on the on the house and a new dining area um uh and then what is great is we're bringing the co the coverage more into Conformity um because we're removing the decks and the pipes so you'll see on the plan there's currently a big deck and a big patio and there was a shed that you guys removed Mother Nature removed that and we've taken um you know so so we're so we now are putting a much tighter patio and the total square footage on the addition is only 90 square feet and a large portion of that is wedged in that current little piece and the reason we are actually projecting out an even e of variance at all on this is because we're trying to connect the architecture to each other so the roof lines and everything work better in the back so I'll show you that in plant in a little bit larger scale so here's currently this was the dining room which is now Mason's full-time office and there's a kitchen living room and there's a this Dan Edition which really wasn't very welld designed as I mentioned and then there's a actually quite interesting and cool kitchen because she has they have great taste so but we're gonna We want to really fix that up and we're so we're interconnecting that and we're adding a little sliver of plus or minus about one foot 6 in so the whole variance we're talking about is about that deep and about that wide it's four feet so it because it projects into this little corner right here because 12 is required through here there's an existing detail here so we just stepped that back and and squared this piece off so that's how we got there uh on the upper floors we're not doing any work on U the second floor um and then um we we've decided not to do this uh um a crazy roof uh design so we did something very simple uh so you'll see that from the second floor but it isn't actually living space and then the attic level is also uh maintained we've updated the bathrooms over time uh and they came out great so we're really happy about that so the new uh proposed Edition gets rid of these kind of 70s whatever it is thing and we ended up putting a new um contextual uh um wavy um wood uh material um Windows they same style as what were there rather than these and uh and then we were putting a new we're um stucking the base of the addition and we're using also parging on this piece as well which will be the retainage here there is current retaining wall that's falling apart so we're just put we're just aligning it with that and we we thought considering there's all the metal windows and the metal details we thought something that's just very simple there would be elegant and it wouldn't you know kind of block the view of the building or anything so even though the property is downhill it's still very attractive uh from that elevation so you can see this is this is the proposed this is actually the existing and this is what we're proposing there um if we get in the technical numbers um should I keep going or do you need more information it's pretty straightforward but uh anyway the um lot area is 14,500 the existing uh allowable what is existing is 10,000 so it's UND sized lat width as I said is 75 is Reed 75 it's only 50 the lat depth is oversized it's 200 where it's required to be 125 so it this is a clear variance of shape of the lot width and size of the lot location of the house on the property all of those elements that we often talk about um the front yard setback is at 40 it's it's consistent with the the other houses on the street at at 37 foot 8 and uh we have that bracketed detail and there are a lot of pieces that the other houses have along the street that also protrude like in with sofits and details um the front uh side yard setback is going from what is required this is the big piece is that what's required is 12 uh the existing is 8 fo8 and 6 fo 7 and we are um changing uh that one six foot7 we're making it more conforming and we're bringing that up to a 7 fo8 on that side so it's more conforming than it currently is and uh the side yard combined what's required is 35 uh percent and what is existing is 31% and um and that's no change and with the addition we're actually bringing that down to 33.2% but it's still nonconforming um so you know where it's required to be 30 5 the existing 31 and propos 33.2 because of that as I said that size piece that we're putting in um the uh and as I said lot coverage is going down from 30 uh from 38.684953 that's because we're removing the deck and all these railings which won't count um and all the other items elements F Etc Building height all those are inconformity and that would be it okay any questions any questions it's all on the back uh in our in my opinion um we feel the board can grant these setback variances without detriment to the neighborhood and the context any questions for the public any comments from the public close the public I would agree with that assessment I think that um this is a really well thought out plan I it next um I agree with I would say I was impressed by both the steepness of the road and the Ness of your lot and and I can see your hardship and I can see how hard you work to make this near conforming it's a it's a pretty modest ask so I'll be in favor a motion Cas make a motion to approve the application I second yes yes yes yes yes good luck with the project thank you so much next up calendar 39 23 25 this so C see right Raise Your Right hands please you s from the truth truth name for the record please p n p and d y time to uh who like to start off go ahead good evening and thanks for the opportunity um my name is Nathan Pand I'm the owner of 25 Old Road with my wife Nur uh we bought this house as a state sale last year uh in March of 2022 and uh we had to take a number of Renovations through it before we moved into the house all Renovations inside the house before we moved into the house in September of last year uh we love the neighborhood um we have amazing neighbors who have made it really easy for us to get uh accustomed to the place and start settling in um we have three kids uh seven-year-old boy and two foury old old twins um and we hope to raise them in the neighborhood as well um so the house we are talking about here is a B level um most of the Living Spaces on the second floor um we have uh the living area the kitchen and we've got three bedrooms there um four bedrooms actually yes four bedrooms um all living space on there um and then we have the master bedroom which is actually jetting out from the house um into the open uh that's just the way it's designed uh we didn't make any changes to the design there um we we made some changes to the bathroom in the master but the outside envelop stap the same um so the way it is designed it's getting out of the house and it's exposed to the elements on all sides um it is supported by beams that are um colum columns it is supported by columns that are uh you know on the on the lower floor um uh so after we completed the renovation uh of the master area uh in the winter um on a very cold December day last year uh the pipes froze uh and because the pipes froze um you know we uh we couldn't obviously use that space for some time but we for two days we kept trying to you know thaw the pipes in order to be able to you know open them up it didn't work until you know on a warmer day the pipes bur and then we had to reopen the ceiling from below and we had to redo the insulation as well as repair the pipes in a number of places um when we did that our plumber told us that you know he's doing it but it remains to be seen if that's going to stay because you know the way the house the master bedroom is built it's outside exposed to the elements and therefore it may freeze again on a cold day um we haven't been able to test that out because you know it's not that cool yet um I mean so the project we are talking about here is really about that master bedroom and enclosing the space that's below that master bedroom um I'll turn it over to Mr singer to take us to the specifics okay before we go on just so one of the variances you need is an F or for area ratio VAR correct um that requires an affirmative vote of at least five board members on the board and we have six board members this evening so normally for a f which is What's called the D type of variance you would want seven voting members so you can go five for seven and still get the approval here you need to go five for six at a minimum to receive approval so I'm assuming the fact that you're up here giving presentation is that you intend to proceed understanding that you only have six votes to work with yes we OB to give you our opinion before you vote so if you decide you don't like he please proceed qualifications uh Thomas singer I'm an architect registered in New Jersey since uh 1988 um professional planner registered in New Jersey since 2011 um have a undergraduate and graduate degree from the University of Pennsylvania Master's in 1985 my license is still good excellent thank you giving us that accepted so please uh this is um a 19 uh 60s utilitarian um it's it's really very simple this is the area that's giving us a problem it's about 30 feet from the uh flood plane on the West Branch of the raway river um pipes end up around here because the master bathroom's here um supported on on 4x4 columns that are shallow um there's breing what breathtaking architecture breath taking architecture and um stands a good chance of ending up under Route 78 and a good storm uh was that enter are we taking was that entered what the pictures that you're oh no uh it is label day one what's that that's lab day one that those are not in the package this was not in the package I don't this one was not in the package no all right wait wait hold on second go Tom go back on okay so your photo your photo board A1 is four photos four photos of uh two photos two renderings two photos and two renderings okay what's the date on that um 11:20 today um that's unenclosed that's the enclosed version from the street you can see the the back of this and this is enclosed there's a slight roof there to get it a little bit of scale uh the numbers are hi um the gross floor area we're looking for currently it's over uh this is an R six Zone 36% is permitted we're existing at 39.3% and the proposed which is essentially enclosing that area underneath the bedroom gets us to 44 57% the other variance is a sidey setback variants side here combined um which is on this side you're not making that worse BR we're not making that worse we're just filling in underneath the Upper Floor y so the Upper Floor is conforming but the lower floor would also not be conformed well on side yard combin they not be we wouldn't be conforming um what n had said before was that most of the space in the house usable is on the upper the ground floor CH this all of the space is garage and utility so half them we're adding more space that's disconnected from the house so either you got to come down stair to get into this base because it's it's separated by utility room from the garage or go outside the which one's going to be what which one is it going to be you go through either there's a stair we're proposing a stair from the upstairs hole down to it but you can't get from there to other parts of the house without going through one conditioned space so so you can't access this space room inside the house you don't have to go through the garage through the utility room to get into it is that how it's is there going to be an access that way and we're proposing a stair from the second floor I saw that de yeah to get down well no or whatever yeah I understand seing of the utility um so our goal is to provide an architectural enclosure uh reinforce the foundation put a continuous foundation and put some sheer walls in to to meet the bracing requirements for this um insulate the floor and provide a radiant slab so that there's heat and um and the functional goal is to keep the the pipes warm but also to keep the house from being blown over or swept away so the lateral bracing will be a concrete foundation with uh 2 in I mean one inch threaded rods and sh and everything that you need to to keep it from ring away uh two types of variances we're looking we've got a a C1 which is because of the Practical difficulties for the owner uh C2 because the benefits outweigh the detriments um it's sort of hardly noticeable from any part of the building and the benefits the owner are fairly extreme and the downside is if it washes out it blocks The Passage through um route 8078 um can you can you explain that yeah yeah for the benefit of the board members yeah you I highly doubt it's going to wash across when you get down to this point this is the this is Route 78 coming through and the east branch and the West the east branch and the West Branch of the rway river come together and they go under a small Culver and that's sort of would you agree that's somewhat of an unlikely scenario wash outward you well the house is right here and that's that's where the the two rivers meet I have a question so do you think it's going to wash out or do you think it's going to fall down because of those the little columns are kind of sply well if it falls down because of a flood it'll take it away oh but will your construction address that potential that's that's what we're trying to do okay but if it's bad enough flood it's going to wash it away if it's bad flood then yeah but then everything else on the how will your construction prevent it from being flooded away because instead of having individual footings that are in would end up m we'd have a continuous one that connected to the house okay in all cases and was so what's the plan to space I mean just storage just storage yeah big storage well that's sort of what it is that's his choice okay um purposes of zoning promotes health safety morals and General Welfare by virtue of allowing the owner to live there and not creating a public nuisance uh security and safety from flood fire panic and natural andate disasters it's purpose be um an I uh desirable visual environment at least it looks better than it does now uh it won't cause substantial detriment to the public good and will not substantially impact the intent and purpose of a Zone plan and zoning ordinance because there aren't a lot of houses like this there aren't a lot that are on stilts and there aren't a lot that are on stilts right next to a river um and it will improve the view from the street and from the neighbors properties what's the height going to be under there the height under there right what's finished it's um are you about seven feet seven and it walked under it but yeah it's seven feet it's basement height how big is that existing uh 50 550 square feet so the garage is kind of oversized the the utility room brings that up to uh 710 square feet so if you take those two components out of this we're asking for a variance of a 123 square fet but we're not taking that out [Applause] so that's where we are uh one more point that I forgot to mention when I was talking was that uh even when the pipes are not Frozen I mean the master bedroom does get very cold uh in the winters because it is exposed uh let you know there's no one in the audience to either make comments or ask questions so um I'll close public portion then so when I walked in that backyard I was truly amazed at that um I just couldn't get over the fact Som how that made it through building um they do look very what was that the columns look so you don't want to lean on just it's unbelievable and it's on these tiny little footings it's just it's incredible um and uh you know obviously if this thing had dirt around it it would be considered Flor ratio but unfortunately it's exposed in the back so there you go uh I I mean I think it almost has to be done I don't love the numbers but it is what it is I honestly I think it actually makes it look so much better um you know so I'd be in favor of it agre yeah just for safety reasons alone it's almost mandatory so in that case do I have a motion motion to approve second yes yes yes thank you we have a month or less favor yes you know there's no the audience comment