right this is up okay [Music] in accordance with Section Five of the open public meeting CH 231 1975 advis this notice that this meeting was made uh by posting board Town Hall andil offici newspapers a list of the meetings dates annually indicated meeting will take place at the Town Hall at 7M on June Joseph Coffield here shandrew horani here Amy Lawrence here Gary Rosen here Regina trit here chairman Craig PL here um I'm slightly out of order because we have are noted so uh if you he for the um calendar [Music] 30 C 39 8624 which is MW of Short Hills that application carried to July 1st 2024 no further notice um next up calendar 3994 which is Samantha 28 barbrook road that application will be carried to June 17th the next meeting no further notice will be given and lastly calendar 39 9424 uh St Rose um uh St Rose Carri to 61724 with no um WR no mailed notice but with new newspap so so if anyone is here on those cases they will not be heard evening and specifically on the St Rose case this to firy um there will not be any further mail notice the property owners with 200 ft however there is an issue with regard to the applicant publish notice in the newspaper so the applicant is republishing their notice but they will not be providing an additional mailed notice and that again chairman carry to G so uh with that appr of minutes first being April 1st uh 2024 any have any corrections or changes have motion to adopt second wait wait you weren't there April 1 you were not there shandrew Amy Gary Priscilla okay anyone opposed uh next up we have 41524 those minutes to uh Joe shandrew Gary Regina Jessica actually Joe shandrew and Gary [Music] changes uh next epis memorializations starting off with calendar 38922 corus 29 Bailey Road in Milburn any corre or changes to that normalization that Joseph Shan Amy Gary Regina Craig um question have appr second Joseph corfield yes shandrew harani Amy Lawrence Gary Rosen Regina TR it yes clner yes next up is cend 39764 uh uh D um um same people Joseph corfield yes shrew harani Amy maren Gary Rosen Regina trit C clner yes than Cal 39724 mon Golf Club at 37 Avenue or changes not eligible Joseph Shan Jo Amy Gary craig9 second Joseph corfield yes shandre hardani Amy Lawrence Gary Rosen clner yes and lastly we have 39794 uh J um uh eligible are shandre Gary Regina that is all really well it was you guys voted no motion a motion to approve calendar 3979 shandre horani yes Gary Rosen yes regia TR yes okay um R 39 on that well you're not the I didn't get any word from them that they were not coming okay I was do first for here so let's go then with 39123 which is Mayo gbio at good evening on behalf of Maya this is a continuation we were here several months ago in September we didn't really go very far uh the 's need for clarification of the drawing the S plan as well as trying to give the board a sense of what we were attempting to do with regard to the regrading the side yard constructing a p patio and we're also asking for a fence fir the pitch on this property the grading it's very extreme there's a 15t drop and um our our engineer and planner will describe the the hardships necessitated by this lot and what we propos I think you have hopefully some renderings of um I can see you have it you have a site plan and I believe our witness Anthony gallerano from Harbor Consultants has also brought has his picture of of what exists there hopefully I get a better sense of the of the difficulty uh so without further Ado I'd like to call Tony G and I want to know that M the owner is here answer any questions no that's fine and he's an engineer and a planner and it'll start off with engineering testimony okay Anthony g a o l e r g please give the board your qualifications to testify as professional engineer also Institute of Technology graduating 1984 I've beened as a since 1988 uh since then I havei scores in the State uh in the area engineer cons the state Mr G are your LIC is current they are thank you Mr Gano could you walk the board through the proposal you laid out sure so as you know this is a corner lot the corner S P Street um It's actually an undersized lot in the a Zone has an area 12,664 feet versus the 20,000 foot required of the zone as you know corner lot requires two front yards uh in this case um the rear yard is exceptionally small only about six foot so there really is no usable rear yard um this property uh the only usable yard um is located the side this up so this is the plot plan that submitted with the application no alterations on that noly sure uh 324 so the only usable area is just is in this sidewalk um and rear yard is only about 6 foot uh the problem of with this this particular side is is thegr if you we to go from the corner of the of the house the far corner to the lowest point of the corner of the property um it's about a 15t drop which pretty much renders the side much unusable you really don't have level area to do anything um the uh purpose of the application is to turn make this y more usable and provide some uh some amenities could be uh could be used in conjunction with water I do have some couple photographs consist of what they consist of U these are two just up the side just kind of gives you an idea Ste y were they Tak these were taken um SO2 yeah okay um have you been to the property I have okay is the condition of the property today is depicted in these photos from March 2 [Music] 2022 and so there two photographs we will Mark then A1 together cons of two and again just it's a view looking at the house from the from the side just to give an idea that side you can see it's steep I it's again it's a 15ot drop across there droy but that's kind of not really it's just it's the slope that makes it pretty much Tony can you please uh just provide some foundation in terms of where the road where was this picture taken from so that's taken um you were standing um on this uh property line opposite the house and you're looking towards the house that's that's of view one zoomed in a little bit one corner yeah again it's just idea the way that that ising from the house so the applicate looking to do is to create um the two section patio and a tier configuration and uh to create some retaining walls with a fence basically again to create some usable area so if you were to again look at the renderings uh the first rendering it's basically just looking from the street looking from that's what you basically see area just edification public these are renderings that were created by your office yes the haror Consulting and it consists of six sheets that have been previously provided three there's five 3D so again just going through the sheets as you can see the uh the idea is to uh utilize a tier configuration that works at the slope rather than try to create one L wall to create some level area the idea is to work with the slope and create again the tier configuration um there's two existing uh doors coming out of side of the house uh there's there's sliding door and a man door coming onto an existing deck the right side to the left side doorway com the so coming out of these entrances or these exits you would come out to the first level of the patio which you see here which has the uh which would basically be to put a table um some more P chairs and then there would be another step down about five steps down to a patio down to gr and that would be um um cre of a level area for the chairs and then the grass area again will be leveled out by creating a Rani wall uh the two property lines and again that's just to be able to this retaining is about 5T at the uh corner and then the tapers down to zero and then tap down to zero opposite so just different um different views you know we are again this is just from a different angle again you see we have the aded exits the first level and then the second level and again this is to create to create a usable yard and the concept of the hearing is to be able to work with the slope and not have any one particular wall one p level P um again there will be Landscaping in the yard as you can see a mixture of um grasses small oral shrubs um small shade trees and some grasses and CRS and this is what the the just keep going again just another look looking at the uh at the side you know looking from the side line towards towards the house again see with the level some configurations and then lastly we have Landscaping plan shows all of the enhancements Landscaping be a combination of some everything shrubs spra grasses and some you knows so that is what the so just [Music] through three variances that are required um the first one uh is the maximum accessory lot coverage for corner lot which is 7% of the area that equates to 86.4 squ Ft um the applicant is proposing 8.16% which is equal to 134 uh the second is the maximum height of fence and wall combination um your ordinance limits at the 6 foot uh what's being proposed as 11 foot which uh consists of you the fence and the wall combination together lastly the inside right outside the outside yeah so it's it's actually in this cor here um is where the highest point of theall so it's the exterior wall right and that how tall is that wall back there so it goes from um 5 um to uh kind of take those down as you get this the SL this is not exactly dep fix it this papers a little more um severely but it goes from Maximum and is yeah 11 yeah it's a combination the that's yeah um here's a for yeah you're right it's 5 foot and that's right we reduce the sorry corre so it's really it's really so it's 5 foot for the wallot for for three fo deviation that's correct and again the wall the defense serves two purposes it's obviously great privacy but it's also for protection walk the wall have something wall just so some safety was actually required by Cod we have that protection so kind of serves a good purpose um so yeah so that's the U that's the variance for the the combination and the height of the fence and the wall um the coverage obviously is the coverage I that's just the 7% limitation cor lot and again that's created by the the new patios uh and then this steep slope again this area under current conditions again is extremely Steep and for your ordinance that's consider the Steep SL and the limitation is 1,000 square feet and in this case proposing just 1 863 Square ft um without that disturbance it really wouldn't be possible to to regrade the yard um so again try to minimize it as much as possible but most of that steep slope area go back to the platform um is actually in that side and we have that area that's kind shaded with some kns that's the the area there a little bit are in Fr Ste slow but um we look at disturb on the side just toate that that level area um again I believe that you know being given the undiz topography I believe be represented as a C1 talk to me a little bit about the drainage drainage yes sorry I need foret to say that so we're proposing a uh an inlet at the corner the furthest corner from the house that's actually the spot and up the that would be down to the storm Street and you know the purpose is obviously to keep any one you putri um we wer proposing a driveway we were just going to conect that the storm engineering department that's up to engineering [Music] um anyway so so you're at C1 um Talk a more about that yeah so again there's um the other size lot again this 12,664 sare ft as AOS 20,000 foot requir so you 7% it does put some of restriction on the uh the amount area kind of configur I know if you remember from the last application the original application we did scale this back consider so we tried to reduce the paos to what the minimum with the own Fields would be you know need their needs so um it does create again the undersiz lot 7% does again just put a restriction rise a C1 um the the wall the height of the wall and the steeve slope kind of work together because in order to grade this property um to make it usable really no way um to not disturb the S slow um again the height of the wall again there's no way to again grade this and create any kind of a level somewhat level area without exceeding that combination you did try to use that tearing or the patios and the wall uh not again have any single element that's too t try to keep everything reable than try to you know put one 10 con around so um again it's just do the topography there no other way to do this without creating that disturbance you here it's that could be open I said obviously it but yeah discuss suitable um the Box up on the top that's yeah the existing deck is remain as is how far is that 9ot combination well it's right it's actually right on the property line again follow follows the property line um it runs about [Music] half R is on the so there retain is there enough room to have those retaining WS next yeah these are this would be like a modular block which doesn't require any so just basically set the tieback distur proper the existing row of trees in the area where the combination that's correct um most of the trees are you know to the uh to the South some trees on to the East and again you know the isant is going to provide addition landscaper and again if they go with the open fence that landscape they can actually enhance the enhance the um back FR of this photo here which is the drawing of the backyard Spence com along all down the house why would you start it from end of the brick well again a wall we want to have on top wall to also protection that top wall here or is it front of looks like it looks like it's in front of well it's in front of the wall but it's along the top right so the idea is if somebody was walking towards the wall they wouldn't they wouldn't step up go to this here so that's why it kind of goes along the wall then it steps down to go back to ra ending the yeah so so okay so the way you have this drawn here okay what kind of space between the top of the question anything else um the theall and there's a there's a whole variation of textures and colors this is kind of conceptually what the afri wants to do pretty close and Engineering the dresses what these are strong enough yeah no it'll be it'll be secur what we do is they they um you know these are stacked in Lock and then we have tiebacks which are this wall right here this bottom you have that leads up to like the grill area how is it's about 4T so the top the top of the patio is about elevation [Music] 337 that runs consistent pretty much the whole thing say Grill is the end yeah it's pretty much the same I mean the tapers as you get towards the house it just taper down Rises up but the majority are going to see area well good question right just sorry just for clarification you said that um trying to find a good picture I here you said that this wall here is along the lot line yes I assume it's set back far enough from the neighbor I I mean it's not listed but I'm just checking yeah it's it's should be back it's the problem be some separation this use the existing C itance aot PR right now they're kind of stabilizing the property just where your perforated pipe is I see you have like a stone field there suround you is there something in the back as well I see a rectangular attached oning your graving plan no no no theing yeah very very that that's actually that's actually that's behind that yeah on the south on the south line that's the east line oh here yeah right there is yeah that's landcap so just just clarify where we are your reest um we're at the uh 1.16 deviation on accessories coverage you're at um AI [Music] questions any questions from the audience regarding this application on now these are for questions only um do have a comment you have time to do that after the fact okay come on up to the podium here okay and you have to introduce yourself and your uh jie D2 great I'm sorry what's the address2 any questions for well I was here in September and I gave the email that I didn't get any rendering email so I did know what it looked like we are the neighboring proper so I was concerned about an 11 foot fin in my sidey so just wanted to see what that looked like and was nervous about water we have a lot of water already we're quite low compared to the neighbor property so this is the side one joining property so these the trees yeah the trees and there's some trees here we didn't show right so the wall it's it's the highest points at which is um 5T and then it it just tapers now there a get closer there a great up this fence as we discussed the board desires open fence in this corner which is the lowest point we're going to put a cash Bas to collect over the water and run that out to the stor so we did that purposely to address you know not having a water and then how far from where the tree stop does the fence continue um the Pence is going to around en enp and at the corner where it's like the highest point you're over here yeah yeah all right so yeah it's the same thing addition Landscaping so this goes about half the ball go about halfway up toward toward okay so how much is it exposed of the fence pass to the tree line the fence can can you um when you answer the question you show the board oh sure absolutely um yeah so we talking about this the property Lo for um so the wall explain the wall would extend about halfway up the property the fence will be all the entire proper so again the entire entire so it's if it's opaque or open or whatever it's essentially like 9t once I these trees and looking a OT W corner to zero as you you don't have a constant n at the highest point the corner and then we won't have any additional water no no all the water again is going to get selcted cash this this will have to go through enger can you just finish concern no those are my only question just nervous about the changes no actually [Music] okay all of our condition okay any other questions from the audience application I do the South where you were just pointing to is that all steep slope area um partially uh yeah I mean it does um de SL the ordinance doesn't permit um alteration of site elevations greater than one foot in height because house the wall is 4 feet tall it's it's 5 fo at the highest there shall be no alteration of site elevations in excess of one foot within 5T of an adjoining property which means I think that's going to require a variance you're going to have to pull in in 5 I'll confer with engineering but that's pretty sure height is okay yeah because it could be up to six feet but it's it's got to be 5 feet off because it's in a steep slope area keep unless I mean I don't know it wasn't pointed out at the beginning I didn't cat how muches that alteration um it's probably this is the only this is here so it's probably maybe 15 ft 15 linear feet the portion that's in the because it doesn't really start until Midway through that planning gooded there um right but only the portion that's in the steep slope is effective so you know what I mean it's maybe about 20 15 or 20 feet back none of that is in the steep slope if the Steep the slopes are where the patio that's area um if it starts it starts about the 331 L maybe 20 maybe anything want your rests to one foot yeah yeah I I would say I mean the applicant notice includes you know CCH all you know seeking any other waivers and variances during course of hearing um that usually covers if there's a small or dious change you know in in a particular bu number but here we're talking about an extra variance request the reason I asked about feet it was only you know a couple feet not really discernable we be one them we're at 40 linear feet I don't think it's 40 feet because this is the only area steep so the only area we're concerned with is from here because this is where your steep sles are we're concerned from here there one right I'm sure I was counting the entire the wall right the wall is only 20 feet that's about 20 feet yep it's not the whole it's just the portion yeah about half of that 20t 20 feet yeah I was counting the entire entire okay so the question is you pull up to the board's reason [Music] ccces at the same time it really ultimately becomes the risk of UL approves the application someone could poti CH the applicant really make that decision although you know law of I think signicant enough I not I think the app would bring it back to eliminate and then I can discuss the matter with the engineering department but I'm 99% sure that's how they would view it yeah obviously if they disagree but I would say that would be the best okay bring elate is that change any of the relief that you are asking for in terms of SL disturbance accessory lock coverage or Max um any comments from the audience just they're bringing the fence in 5T the entire L the wall the entire yeah L that going to lessen your sleep SL I could almost guarantee it probably wasn't even considered in the initial sleep slapes because the way I read it was wall a fence okay so and it's not the whole thing that has to come in it only has to come in for that for that so if they opted to do that helps thatu so are yours just a clarification so if you bring it in 5et what does that do to the side where where it's right it's on the other side it's on the other side also well it's in the runs across I guess I'll start with some thoughts so um so this is you know an undersized lot that has no backyard so the only choice to have something like this has to be in the side yard so um so from that and it's a very steep slope so from the perspective of something being in the sidey yard and having to disturb the slope that I you know I see that that makes sense to me because otherwise you get nothing that functions like the way person would have you know a a patio and a and stuff in um I think that um you know I I I don't know if the the accessory use flot coverage is is something I have issue with or not it is a lot of patio maybe but I'm not you know I've given that it's a a perhaps a smaller lot size I don't know if I'm so troubled although it could be maybe more conforming but I you know it's just a thought um the height of the fence in the wall I think if it's already four feet 6 a little we fence on top of a four foot wall is odd I I don't like that it's closed off like this as you said it' be nicer if it was open it's a little odd to have this sort of fenced in thing in the side like this but but it seems to also be a requirement that it's on top of these retaining walls and if you have to have them like I'm not sure how you really get around that it's really most of the yard so those are sort of my thoughts on this so I'm not I'm not sort of going one way or another I'm just throwing out my initial thoughts I agree with those comments I do think I do think there is a reasonable case here for hardship the size of property [Music] so when I look at this thing I just see walls and walls and walls and that is very out of character this area um I don't see another application like this about driving around um and I think that there's a way to achieve what you're trying to do without this scale gra um so I think this is out of while I like the application I think it's very out of character the way it's done in his neighborhood uh I don't like all the fencing of course it seem that can be remedied with the estate fence um but looking at the neighbors with they're seeing you're going to be seeing walls and vents um like I said that doesn't really exist in this neighborhood and to build a p and enjoy a sidey I'm not sure we need multi levels and all other stuff so um I'm not superation Al go um not a fan of the fence as it's shown on the the renderings it looks like above ground pool is exact what I thought when I looked at it um I also see that you know on the um the west side or the wall That's closest to sore there's fence continues along that after there's a wall That's to the west of the building and I can see why they need a fence above that so no one falls off that wall but then there's another maybe 15 20 ft of fencing that's just superus I think especially since we're try maybe trying to keep that Sagamore Road feeli that's there well I guess to that [Music] dist yeah the applicant will be willing to eliminate any fencing that's not needed for so the only uh place we put the fence is just where the different protection top of the so there not a just have like said minimum needed for safy it makes that determination fres yeah it's it's based on um you code over um I think it's I'm not sure like 30 in height and you have to we can figure out where that height you know the limits of that height and you know this is approved go building and that ver construction just again minimum need I that have to be I mean I think given the fact of the relief that's being requested even this is wall for COD purposes I don't think that that allows the board to the [Music] application offered only in EV board the board do measure at this point Mr chairman we could ask for continu so that we can bring back the pictures that you're looking for so that you can specify understand uh yeah August 5th August 5th uh for those interested parties in the room this continue to August 5th um no further not will be given any modifications to the plan it's submitted would be on the website or at Town Hall just so as we go back to the drawing board the concern that we're hearing from the board is about the Ben uh are there other issues that you like to address um fo redraw that way you know with this obviously minimum offense that you alluding to uh I think would be good and I would amend your table and take a look at that are we with this accessory use coverage Beed well that's something that we take a I think they should consider [Music] def yeah andraw with State you're interested in this that you Circle back um 46 East hard I believe show showed up anyway okay um next application to the calendar 39 8124 car 520 uh MTH Rustin at 46 see how are you David we start in your main um hello again we D Boston and we would like to thank you for taking the time to listen to our revised application as we mentioned last time we have lived in our house for 11 years and we love it and we love our neighborhood over the years of living in our home our needs have changed and we would like to make some improvements we have heard everything that was said in the last meeting and we have taken it to heart and we are returning with a plan that we are only asking for one variance and we have also cut the requested F increase by half we have worked on our plans for our home for over a year and we have drawn up many iterations of the plans um and we have tried to be very thoughtful with the renovations that we would like to do we looked at various options that would conform as we didn't want to me any variances and we didn't want to need to come before the board we even explored knocking down our home starting from scratch but there was a big issue for us the home designed for our Corin our lot was a box and even though we could get more from knocking down our house we simply do not one box we love the beauty and we love the character of our home we love that we have a Colonial and we feel that it looks great on our street and this is one of the reasons that we chose to do an addition in an area of our home that would least impact our neighborhood it is tucked away between two parts of the back of our house and cannot be seen from either Street as we discussed last time we feel that this is our forever home we just wanted it to be more conducive to the way people live today since we do not have the opportunity to respond to the last meeting we would like to take a few moments to clarify a few things we try to be straight were than honest people and we have always treated our neighbors in a respectful way we did contact our neighbors before the last meeting which is why we were surprised at them attending the first meeting with reservations about our project without mentioning any issues to us we were also very surprised when we saw our driveway side neighbor as we have always thought we had a great neighborly relationship with them in the past they have even been generous enough to give us their garage door opener and allow us to use their garage free of charge while they were out town when we saw Iana at the last meeting we immediately tried to go over our plans with Dave outside before our presentation and attempt to figure out what her concerns might be our only conclusion at the time was that her issue must have been with the garage and so in the hopes of bringing back the good relationship we always had with them we decided that we would be willing to lose the garage Edition the garage Edition was a big priority for our family our son is hopefully getting his license next year and we really wanted to ble to keep the car indoors my mom sometimes comes and sees with us and unfortunately on the occasions that her car has been left on our driveway we have been woken up by our ring camera with somebody trying to break into it and many of the car fs and break-ins in our neighborhood have been targeted due to cars and driveways so we were hoping to draw less attention to our block um but right before our turn last time we made a quick decision that we would take out the parage as we had concluded that that was probably our neighbor's concern in hindsight it was our error not to have a more extensive conversation with Iana to learn more about her concerns after we decided to remove the garage from our fans and since the last meeting we have reached out to Iana and her husband Jonathan and we don't see them here tonight we have always tried to be good neighbors to our neighbors next to us on East T time as well a few years back when we installed our generator which was compliant with Town rules our neighbors informed us that they were unhappy with a distance to their home we showed that we were the correct distance as required by town but they were still unhappy so to be neighborly we had our generator dug up and we moved it to another location and by moving it further away we could no longer have it tucked against our house which cost us more money and Landscaping to cover it we did this to be neighborly and accommodating as we have always tried to be as I mentioned earlier we reached out in advance of this first zoning board meeting to see if our neighbors had any questions we even offered to put them in touch with our architect we answered the questions that they asked us and when they didn't have any further questions we would like to believe everything is okay so we were surprised to see them at the last meeting we even followed up again yesterday and we answered their questions our neighbors cannot see into our backyard or our patio due to the trees that we had previously put in so we even offered to have them come to our backyard so we could walk them through the revised PL and we could show them everything with all that said I would like like to clarify this information that was given the last we cannot see into the back of their house from the addition area our house faces the side of their house which is their garage and has no windows on the second floor of their house they will show you phot for the privacy of both of our homes we put up a screen of 10 to 12 foot by and we put these trees in prior to even planning the plation process these trees are not done growing and will be taller we installed emerald green number B trees that can grow up to be even 40t tall and we specifically put more of them to have them grow together and create a solid hedge so you will not be able to through it these trees are typically selected for privacy and I and also these will be clarifying some of the dimensions that were mentioned but our addition area was always compliant with the setback we want to thank the board again for your time to hear our advis plan we have spent a lengthy amount of time drawing up our plans and we try to be thoughtful to our neighborhood and choosing the location of the addition we listen to everything that was said at the last meeting and we have tried to be accommodating coming to the board with fewer variance tests and by cutting our area by overh half as we mentioned at the last meeting our kitchen is an awkward layout where everyone who comes in has to walk through the narrow middle of our kitchen so we would like to improve that we entertain a lot for the holidays and I would love to have a kitchen where I can entertain and have people conate being and while improving the house we would like to renovate our bathrooms and improve our bedrooms for our kids so we are adding another bathroom and two closets upstairs but we have since produced the size of all of these since our last meeting we are very hopeful that the opportunity that we will have the opportunity to improve our house and make it more functional for our family and thank you again for your time and okay uh just I apologize I mentioned some of the things that we already covered last time I'll TR make it I'll assume that we and we'll just proed um my recollection is that A1 color zone map yes was you start twoos you want to Mark next A2 what is A2 A2 is small packet one for each of the board members which shows photos of uh the existing conditions and and one with a dash line actually a couple of them with with lines showing where the addition is for other comp is that A1 photos five sheets right David right and with some identification a language that is superimposed um when were these photographs taken it says on each photo I think when they were taken so uh first one is a Google Earth as is the second those are both downloaded end of last week um then there's a photo the third one is a photo of the indented area on the back of the roson house with a red line and a blue comment that was taken June 1st then on the next board there are five photos all taken on May 29th and the last one is is simply a blow up of the one that's in the lower right Oni yes he's an architect in our office and these photos um within this A2 packet accurately reflect what the property looks like today yes other than the comments that were added yes I'm just going to give a two to you can okay so looking at the photos the first one simply shows an aerial view of the house house is here on the corner little bit of an angle and the addition that we're proposing is requires a single variance for floor area ratio 1.7% the two other variances that weor yes the only variances for f the maximum permitted in the zone is 30% yes yes and the proposal is 31.7 37% yes okay thank you okay the other there were two last time the variance for f was 33.7 we're now 31.7 so we've reduced that from 3.7% over to 1 7% and the other two variances were both related to the garage the garage was that part of that increase for the f um and the garage also was just a presence of a three car garage and the garage required a front yard setback varant um as as D mentioned in the conversation with the next door neighbor um and getting her concerns that whole garage was just eliminated uh anyway so and then we further reduced the size of the kitchen and the the second floor the kitchen had been one foot larger last time we brought it in an additional foot of over some of the uh statistics on that and the second floor which previously we had had just aligning with the kitchen just for the Simplicity of the appearance and the construction we reduce that by two feet and so it no longer directly aligns it sets back an additional put Beyond where the kitchen yes yeah the third photo shows that shows a Red Line indicating about where that is and so it takes up the area on the patio where there's a drill there some steps and three4 of the chair um The Patio itself which is in this in this out and projecting out is being moved about 40 ft farther away so that it's less of it's less of an issue right there so we moved it farther from our neighbor over here and no Rel for that corre correct yeah that's all compant Yes um so just wanted to point out on here when you look at there some comments about the sides of the house there will be no change visible from the street so the neighborhood is is unchanged um because the addition is partially filling this little void back here show scale but when you see this house and you look at many of the adjoining houses which are all the same Zone you can get an idea that they're all pretty similar in size and that you would actually probably just need the statistics themselves from the building department in order or zoning department in order to know which one was bigger or which was comp which was not the second photo is just a blow up just showing uh the rost's house at 46 and the neighboring house to the right and left up their house although the addresses these C sh this one the Ron's house mostly faces open um and the the house next door which has what appears to be a bigger roof area is is lower so it's not when you're standing on the street it has a a small impression um one of the things that's interesting is that when the house was built in 1988 this corner which is closer closest to the neighbor on the t is was built about 10.6 fet away instead of the current requirements of 16 and I'll just show you a little bit more on that um but the addition itself is set much farther away the other corner is 18.3 the addition is going to be 21.1 and it goes to the the other side of the addition is a little over 30 ft it's 30.8 ft away and the reason I mentioned that is that there is no side yard setback variance here and the the expectation by any neighbor in this in this area is that there should be from the property line the next structure should be 16 ft away the existing house has been there since 1988 but the addiction itself did not come we didn't make it flush with either of these this when it happens to stick out a little bit farther but we have it if this corner is 18.3 as I mentioned the beginning of the kitchen Edition is 21.1 and that that's just an indication that the um the expectations that in the joining neighbor would have excuse me would have are met in this um now in one of the other photos in one of the other photos I just go with the packet um you can see in the one Mr field held up that the the the addition is going to extend out a bit short almost three feet short of the uh the existing family room come up and then set back further so that just shows where that is on the fourth picture in your packet there are several photos and the main thing to to see on these is that there's an Ary Hedge uh which in the upper left this is looking the Hedge is sort of in an L shape here and the first photo in the upper left is showing the neighboring house which I mentioned is lower and so you can just barely see a little bit of roof and then there's a photo from the street looking toward there and you can see that it's well screened but we're not even doing anything on that side of the house anymore and it's not the purpose of this upper photo is to show that they could not they can't see this addition at all um and nor is it visible as I said from anywhere else on the street then we have these two photos that are Through the Windows of the existing second floor on V8 which is J there are two windows here two larger Windows the addition comes out 7 ft 9 in here and there are three Windows one in a closet one in a bathroom and one in a little sort of hallway getting to the bathroom off of one bedroom so they're they're not spaces that are really occupied um more than very time it does not have the color she V and the color is just to represent mainly which windows are new we're taking this day existing breakfast there we're taking that off and having the house straight across so that the farther out all compli but that's going away and so this is a door the mud window the windows in the kitchen are similar in overall size although the are a little taller roughly in the same space and we have four doors here was two doors and two sels that's essentially the same thing in the breakfast area for these two windows just looking out those windows that's what the photos are in the in the bottom left and it's just showing that in looking from those windows toward the adjoining house there there aren't any windows that you can see except for the the angled window on a bay at the back of their house so one would have to be in that b to take the photo to to see and from there's no in my mind there's no loss of privacy by adding any this the first floor is completely blocked by the AR body which will continue to get taller and these are in relatively small spaces low intensity use and the view is similar to what's what's seen there and the the photo at the bottom right which is also the fifth one in the packet and I just blew it up a little bit so you could see a little bit more and what this shows is that there are no windows on the second floor for this part of the house on the neighbor's house so we were conscious of maintaining not only privacy for the Rost but making sure the Ros were not imposing on the neighbors so that's that's the uh the main part of the presentation with the with the phot any questions on okay so I just wanted to do a couple of things I I have the back of the house here one of the reasons for the addition is that the the existing kitchen is 8 and2 ft front to back I mentioned last time that when you come in from the garage or from outside you come in and you have to there's no place there's no way to get to the rest of the house without walking between the stove and the Sint and so on this just comes to a small room which I guess may have been originally designed as a ma room small and so go for is to take this space and build it out to about where the window ends here and to make a better kitchen and to move the breakfast area from where it is to being directly adjacent to the kitchen and in doing so we're adding this additional space we're going out 8' n in on this floor and on the second floor we looked at it more carefully considering the comments by Neighbors numers on the second floor we that 7 so that it fits for the standard walking closet instead of being up 10 that it was before we have a proper mud room now kitchen breakfast area um on the second floor two windows that I mentioned are in hway one is at the top of the steps and the intent here is to closet for the primary suite andet for this there's some other changes that are happening other bathrooms laundry rooms are being redone so that's really the scope uh of the project and what we're and to do this we're seeking this single variance for 1.7% on f um what does that correspond to 284 so on the uh one one last thing I wanted to go over is on V1 which also has some color on it but I think that one we may have looked at before I think I think that that was A1 um what the dimensions on there are that 10.6 is the corner in the back left of the house that's from 1988 by the time it gets to the next corner it's 18 sorry and then the beginning of the addition is 211 and then the corner of the existing house over here is 27.6 and the addition the dimension from the the far corner of the addition to the proper property line is 30.8 the record ref further up okay so um this is an F uh variance which requires five votes in favor um we feel that this can be um this addition can be done without substantial detriment to the public good and without substantially imping the intent and purpose of the zoning plan and the zoning ordinance it does satisfy the sort of three of actually there sort of four basic ideas but one the first one is promoting public health safety and Welfare second providing sufficient space and appropriate locations for residential uses and and by that we can sort of the kitchen is in the right place the flow is a little bit better on the inside and the site can accommodate the proposed improvements the building coverage which is allowed to be 18% is now 16.3 um the launch coverage which is allowed to be 35% is now 31.1 so we're not pushing the limits in all these areas but the hardship is really that the house was designed um 1988 um for some of us that doesn't seem like so long ago seemed to be a while ago anyway the the constraint here is that we're working with the existing house that's lawfully existing on the property and if we were designing a new house we wouldn't need a variance because that 1.7% in one statistic we could accommodate but it doesn't the house doesn't blend itself to cutting a little bit off of each room in order to be able to meet those those goals um and so that's sort of the that's that's what the zoning board is is in buisiness for is to make those choices about balancing the community interests versus the individual property rights or desires and here the community interests we feel are well served by this application uh it the the street state is absolutely unchanged uh nobody can see it even on an angle between houses and that the the Hedge that already exists it's not one that we're promising that we will put in it's already there and they put it in before I even met them um which provides privacy both ways and I think works very nicely so I understand that it is a variance it's the single one I don't think that there's anything that rises to the level so as to constitute a substantial detriment to the public good and um I welcome welcome any comments and questions yes um yeah I'm not sure which one they were I thought that they were I'm sorry I thought that they were the ml they providing yeah well they haven't been eaten so that actually tells might but the reason it's significant because their top about at if they're okay I'm so sorry you know I maybe I was incorrect we chose them because they were narrow and we chose them we put more in so that it will create a solid hedge the deal breaker for me just F they might be eaten and they there are fences there's a fence around them backyard so there's a fence that comes the property you can see in that there as we were to write this resolution say something hardship peuli are there things about the property to meet our burden of that say that should say we should feel that there's some real hardship bed that be part of this experience sure couple things first of all [Music] question as why and while it's not really a hard case in terms of a C1 case typically looking at hard existing conditions on property I do think in terms of the posit criteria for f whether the site can accommodate the increase that they are compared to in believe is fair to least consider what the applicant is dealing with an other what you if they don't want to knock down the house and we heard there some testimon that stated that they can knock down the house and produce a fully conforming they don't want to do that because it's character testim so I do believe that the quote unquote hardship of the existing condition on the property um is a relevant consideration for this board in terms of but do we have to say that the lot is peculiar in any you do not to say that the lot is peculiar no no because again it's not it's it's A4 e ratio the to demonstrate that the site canodate the F in ACC what ised okay okay but that was my [Music] question hardship I mentioned I quot it that way just because but I'm doing it in less official ways than a full legal analysis that's not hardships are something where as Mr Simon mentioned there are C1 and C2 variances in 1984 they changed the regulations to say that it doesn't have to have a hardship this the it can be just that the benefits outweigh the detriment or that there aren't any DET I'm sayber consider exis the house which is legally existing it goes to um structures that are legally existing on on the property and that if it makes sort of conforming development unfeasible or impractical in some way so there's no demand for hardship only they do not need to demonstrate that there's a hardship but if you choose to decide that there is some actually yeah I'm looking when they're purchased they're usually purchased within a range and the range was 10 to 12 feet that's when they go in they're supposed to be somewhere between those two uh these went in between one and two years ago I think and so the way they look now is basically the way they went in is first year that all the activi is underground and it's the second year really more the third year where it starts to actually grow these will grow up these could grow up to the easily to the height of the of the gutter line on the second floor eventually depends it may depend yeah I've seen arities are cedar trees so some of them are hybridized for C [Music] mention right now in 1988 and I don't know who the zoning officer was or what the deal was and so on at that but this closest point is 10.6 we are not touching that that exists that's allowed to continue existing um then the dimension of the other corner of that same piece because the house is not parallel with the property line it's offset the other side of it is 18.3 our addition on the first floor is set in further so it's at 21.1 the second floor is another fo part 22.1 and then the Cor is this clear see um the corner at the other end of the addition is 30.8 um and and then I have one other dimension which it again the next corner of the existing house 27 but the main purpose was to say that although there is a corner of the existing house if we did nothing that would just stay where it is at 10.6 our addition the back wall of the addition is at its closest 18.3 the requirement is 16 so we're in very good shape on the setback the level of privacy all of that and the second floor sets back and then as the addition goes away from that that 21.1 it gets farther away from in8 predates the applicant the yes yeah 19 1988 any other questions quick one yes so it's a very small amount you're asking is for 1.7% down a lot I really appreciate question so small uh there isn't an easy way to do that we want the kitchen to be able to function properly [Music] um even if even if we took the second floor off we would still have a an variance I don't think that um for the for what we were for the targets that we were hitting for how the house would would be this house since 1988 has had a kitchen 8 and a half why people have gone back and forth we're trying to improve that and in doing so we're trying to put in an island so that there's a public side and then the hooks Zone it's safer it's a much more much more up toate way to design a kitchen um if we didn't do anything yeah it would be conforming but the the whole point for this for the project that we're really intent on doing it does need an open questions the audence your name your name and [Music] address question yes change right okay no I'm I'm glad to answer I believe that that requirement is within the required front yard which is different than the front yard and the way that that's different is that there is the the front yard is measured in a variety of ways but um the prevailing front yard setback along archar drive is not the usual requirement of 40 ft sorry I don't need I just want to make sure they can see as well so it's not the usual requirement of 40 ft it's the requirement is 49.7 um and so that's the line and so there there's no change to the impervious surface coverage in that required front yard the other way that it might be interpreted is take the closest point and that's 52.7 and if you draw that line across those two Landings are behind that as well not that I know it are there I mean the the thing is that right now on that side it's just it's mostly just sighting just that side and what we were [Music] doing you're referring to D9 and this is a sheet that is part the application and what I'm showing is that this although the address is 46 East har drive this is what it looks like that's technically by that by the address that's the front of the house we felt that as a part of this project assuming that the U that there's enough money for everything that we want to do we thought it would be nice to improve this the appearance of this part that faces the Street either improve the appearance or hide it because I don't I I don't think that's an attractive presentation to the street so in the family room planking the fireplace we put French doors on each side a landing and then the steps down and two windows above in here and then we took out this um this thing this window up here this round one that's in one of the bathrooms and we put in a convent window well I wouldn't call this honestly I just wouldn't call it an entrance it's really it's sort of an exit uh I mean that's because there's nobody coming off of the street to get into there it it's really just a way whether they want to let the dogs or something we have we have some significant limitations as to what we could do in the front yard like you can't put a patio out here um and these these could have been windows we thought the French doors looked a little bit nicer to get a better balance between blank wall and the combination of fenestration which is doors and windows and so it's it was something to try and put some effort into beautifying the house on that s so I don't know if that answered your question but to answer any others okay any other questions from the audience any comments from the audience regarding cation [Music] my name is I was here two weeks ago to ra several concerns we have um and I'm here tonight to provide first I want to that [Music] I want to right um and they're here to present their you know desire to in their and I'm here to present some of the concerns that we do have you um additions to the building um and also first let allow me to resp to of spech generator um so I think that was several years ago dur Co right so my my husband um he did a littleit research when he found that you were like you know generated house and found that there was with the distance so if everything is work in compliance with the regulation according to a Township regulations you wouldn't have interfere at all so I just want to let you know that it's not because we feel it's too closer even we feel it's too close but if it's in compliance with the T regulation we wouldn't have reach so just so you know and I appreciate it and you mentioned that our neighbors have all been Neighbors um I appreciate that you said that I remember that we have been remember that time that you want to the and put those trees we didn't say anything because I think if you think it's a good thing your house we fine happy that you know so so you know okay so regarding the proposed new um proposed additions even with the new rision um the proposed to St in the back will still result in overing as everyone agrees right the ex the ma ratio allowed um as I tolded you two weeks ago um this the year two addition will make um an already sub optimal situation even worse because um I think the architect mentioned that um we would have take um sodos in the Bay Area to be um part of your buing which which is not accurate because the Bay Area is our like breakfast area so basically when we are not receiving guests um the four of our family you know uh always you know eat our breakfast um lunch and dinner in that area so because we have this round um um table um two of people you know how we are seated around around the table two people can clearly see the back of your beauty so including um the you know the newly proposed addition in the back of the just so you know that's what we we actually can see um and uh um the the proposed sh in the back will increase nonconformity of the already nonconforming property by that I'm for to the fact that you know um the um the building is only 10.6 ft from the prop L although you mentioned it was bu back in 1988 and back then there was no um 16 ft step back but right now I can't stand it is not so you don't have to do anything about that um so that said we believe that the proposed addition does not create any positive impact on the neighborhood Who mention and no want to see that obviously we are the person who the addition um under the addition as I said I will Havey issues and we um your mexo neighbor are the ones um that will bear the bur um in addition I I think that the two new exor will create some potential safely conf nebor so in summary um we do have commented two weeks ago that the proposed Edition um raises several concerns regarding proy Conformity regulations and potential effect thank you thank you any other comments from members of the audience I'll ofation um stated variance far 5 votes we have six board members I believe that are eligible to vote on this application tonight I yes so I guess the first questions we start the appli Eng yeah go ahead um we we would really appreciate we do appreciate the time and effort that is going into this we would like to have a successful vote if there's a way to just get the sense of the board we would appreciate that absolutely every their opinion we are tight on soate I'll start he um I'll start because I was a person that was probably not too crazy about the garage because the setback and I would through off that line um seeing that you've actually dialed your application kind of back substantially I think um and we only looking for an F 1.7% I am in favor of this like I think this is a great in terms of getting it back and keeping it to what you really need that's what I see as and I don't see this detrimental in the neighborhood at all um and I agree exactly with ch said was a great application of what you need versus what you want and um it really accomplishes everything that's desired of a home at the same time I really see a very minimal impact on the on the neighborhood yeah I I I agree I mean I I I think I I appreciate that you took you know our concerns to heart and that you revised your plans and you know I perhaps you could have cut this back more but I don't think you could have completely eliminated to get what you wanted to do I don't think you could have completely eliminated the the request for the variance and I think it's a a it's a very fair ask and it's very [Music] minimal last don't need my um I'm a little concerned that it's over still going but you've made a very good argument stated that you really couldn't me the without neighbor supp C go one more thing sure uh just for the neighbor I could hear your concerns as well um I think that there's already existing two-story building there and the depth perception of being able to determine that 7 foot second floor I don't think is going to be as that big of what what the the view is right now so I just wanted to add that because I do appreciate what NE com give their opinion do I have a motion Joseph Coffield yes shre harani yes Amy Lawrence yes Gary Rosen yes Regina trt yes clner yes good luck with project thank you for your patience and your thoughtful consideration last3 Alexander LAN sorry we announced at the beginning Sor June 17 [Music] yes okay person okay thank you [Music] it's never off these walles here everything I didn't say anything if they don't your phone is listening to everything you're saying anyway everything there's no escaping it's kind of scary you have a conversation did you did you give testimony on the 15th did you you presented testimony on the 15th yes Amy huh I C you listen to YouTube did you listen to YouTube lent okay well you can't vote well Amy can't vote but it's not an F correct no she'll have one two three four five Craig has listened Craig Craig watches them in his spare time even the on he at or do you I'm you could say I mean there's a possibility we might not go to a vote tonight I don't know you then you'll have to watch two then I'll watch two you all right there you go okay okay so Amy Lawrence has left the building no no they're here about something else okay so you're so you're here so you're here for something unrelated to this matter unrelated to this okay so at the end of this we will have the ability to that would okay iog um okay can I go please do okay it's a continuation I guess everybody so we got all the information for the rest we went back we looked at everything we tried to cut down our project and make it as small as we could to it so it was more workable and um my clients back um but I was just GNA really handle this hear from them questions do anybody my letter from May yes um modified the circular driveway it took off 952 which is kind of huge it's actually 5% a 5% reduction in taking the lot coverage from U I think it was 29 .5 or 25.9 25 you mean front yard C no I mean Act was a big reduction even though the lock cing you know we're at basically 26% we're allowed to be at 35% but we low we decrease the size of the drivery I also went and verified the de and um we asked the neighbor for survey they couldn't find one and um I went up and I looked at I have a little exhibit to show you what I did and the resolution that we came up with which I think was small that we lowered the deck a foot and a half so that it would be less imposing onto the ne and I hope that can address the concerns Mr and then the final thing that we did is we took off the over the garage and my Cent would actually like to leave it but I kind of thought there was a little discussion that you wanted us to remove it because we to make theage we have Carriage garage doors which we agree to leave and to do I guess I'm going to take you to attach initi did you do rev no it wasion because what we did really had no impact on any of the VAR so I'm on schedule the first one was I'm just doing this only is that the variance Rel that is deped on attachment still was applicable to this application without so so not withstanding the changes for the M 16th letter the deviation still remain yes okay the front yard set back request for the Alexander is still 3.99 say the side yard setback required for the deck is still 6 and the garages are prohibited from facing either of the streets on corner so request is to put the garages in front because you really wants the house to identify where not identify as Alex so I'd like to enter this board a 85 [Music] A5 is my A5 it's on the top is the existing driveway just identify what what is A5 it's a series of I did five site plan layouts of proposed in existing dve just to give the board of idea of what's going on you know a COR lot bridge and there's I think six other houses with SP industry on Brides go up the and then addition I understand may but anyway this is the existing coming coming back into the rear of the gar the problem for us is that we want to put a mud we really need to create a garage mud room into the house and it's the only place to really you really want to go garage mud room to the kitchen it's really the way this thing should work and if I take the garage or I take the mud and push it to the front I'm going to be entering into the living room from the Gar so that block right there is our proposed mudro with the existing driveway but this existing driveway is about 1300 I do also want to say that the existing driveway is up and up makes you really see the driveway show that another exhibit and then our first submission that we had we had the r looping around coming to thear thear faing Bri about 2720 and the submission that we're really presenting tonight is really the same thing but we just made it smaller it's about 1768 squet and I know all of this doesn't really matter it's not even a variance for a drive and um remember a lot coverage is really but um making the Dr smaller helps to minimize usual no doubt it's also true that from the street the house goes down so this driveway is really not as visible as this driveway is from Alexander from Alexander the drive up point is also previously pled Fox was all around the car and I drove around the car to see what you really see from the scen we show it to we also tried to come and just swing across it just gave me more footage it didn't seem to do any good it doesn't help me to be able to turn around to be able to get out of the driveway and if I do it this way which is probably the smallest way I can get um the smallest amount of P I really can't turn around Ian I guess it seems just at this point what was the there's no real problem with the l so we left so tonight we're really presenting this on rised drawings I come to my example I gu a pictures photos around the site that were taken about three weeks ago say May and in the middle is a blow up site plan that indicates our house as well as the neighbor's house the nebor there's a row of conifers that are between these two properties pretty and that's pretty in I going to say pictures that I C D A and B really show you the buffer between the two properties but in addition to that we lowered the de so that we TR not in the position where on the de over the other the neighbor whose deck is also right I think that we are asking to be 9t off the neighbor is existing 10 ft so from the two lest corners of the deck it's 19t and exting on the bottom here you can see that when I am sitting in the car so I'm going to say I don't know for feet off the ground and I'm just taking a picture at I and I like those pictures because I think that's kind of we mostly see the street Scapes to you see a lot of driveway in this drive going but as soon as we start to come up the side about we see what they the box which are about little over about 28 in high or grow to be about 36 I come up to the corner and then I start get the front going down you the box the box was a really shielding IDE of this driveway because it's downhill I'd like to send this around um so let's so what's your new on this de yeah I was just ask um de how far above is it how far above gr is the de yes is it more than 18 in yes so none of that is changed it's um it would have to be less than 18 inches above grade then it would only have to be 12 we don't have the proper line but since it's more it has to me the house like that which is 15 so it looks like it's more than 18 in but it's about it's about three and a half fourt one two four steps up have three steps up so it's okay question just that on your boa3 your de elevation you have a 28214 finished floor inside is 28247 right that's the old one yeah that's so your deck's going to be like 281 280 is fo and still [Music] yeah please don't worry the is incorrect corre trigger variance it's already in variance we had it already I thought it might lessen it if it was if it was going to be more at grade level but it's not so it still is required to be 15 feet where nine is proposed if it was lower it would only have to be 12 feet off the property line but it still needs to be 15 so the bar Rel is UN correct [Music] so we remove the on the left side really a one story mass in terms of the violation that we're seing for the Alexander side which is kind of a little bit because of the twoot projection of the fireplace exage SP the building height everybody knows is 28t lowed to be at 32 ft or 4T under it's not a massive building it's really an alteration um it's a big site it's about 21,000 it's a really a big building it's that building you saw this one doesn't look like that this is a all the hardship of the Cory Ro allow us to get back out seem to me to make a lot of sense that the buildingin that's really what the owner wants to do I think that the changing grave the way the gra drops really allows us to exist it's far from Theo from rge Road Street L coverages all the coverages are extremely the floor area is only at 18% where 26% is allowed the lot coverage would be at about 25.9 and the previous application was about 30.4 but 35% allowed under the building coverage 11.7% where 14% this is really more a problem related to existing location yes I think you made a statement that there were five or six other houses on do you know if they were in R4 or R5 I know they're everything right maybe is it R any we agree to like a [Music] reallys that's that's why it will work for us it gives us and it's a little bit because the site of rear Y is over on this side of the property it helps us to get a little better access to that side of the property the top of Cur is for two so to A5 the top right is what you're proposing yes any question are you also proposing the same Landscaping that was initially proposed yes proposing landscap and the Box start because if they're starting toow um many but I do think the safety reasons it's good that you way for them to I was happy [Music] app and I think the applicants need of having ENT into app [Music] as well I think I think presented [Music] is um the deck was the sticking point with me um if the neighbor's not here objecting to it being in my foot set even though you did lower foot uh 4 Ines then I will go along with board members Joseph Coffield yes shandrew horani yes Gary Rosen yes reg Truitt yes Craig pner yes thank you there any comments in the audience end tonight yes [Music] first of all it's very nice to see how due process works here where people come with proposals and we do back and forth and comments and questions I didn't have that opportunity I'm standing here tonight because I was not afforded the opportunity to do so on November 6 2012 the hearing date for the construction variance on the property betting line on 6 Spenser Drive which brings their house several feet closer to the property line since I was not present at the meeting and neither were numerous other impacted neighbors I spoke to concerns regarding the construction and the proposed variants were never the test since I was not present to contest their application for the variance of the additional setac it was approved and the construction literally started to I did not attend the hearing on November 6th because me and several of my neighbors did not receive proper notice as reir our notice came on May 26th last Wednesday at 8 a.m. then we woke up to the sound of chainsaws cutting down four Majestic trees on my neighbor's property I immediately went to the town building department and spoke to Who provided me with a copy of the letter of the notice that I never received as well as my certified letter confirmation of my notice which indicated that delivery was made to me on November 16th 2023 10 days after the hearing though I was told that sending the notice was all that had to be done by the applicant the very document I was shown taken from the zoning Department's record indicated that delivery was made 10 days late clearly providing that I did not receive notice of the hearing in time to attend therefore me of any due process to be I suggested I take the matter up to the post office which is exactly what I did went to the sh's post office had them look up the certif letter tracking number and learned the following number one the certified letter of notice was indeed never delivered to me on November 6 forever for that matter because the letter was actually returned to the sender on November 16th the sender being either the applicant or The Architects two parties that share a joint interest in not having the construction and the VAR contested needless to say this returned letter was never forwarded to me and I was never informed therefore either the applicant or his proxy must have known that I was the notice of the hearing thereby begging the pressure what satisfies the necessary PR of the service being made in this case service was not satisfied since it was returned to the sen meeting meaning that it was effectively not delivered raisings to the applicant's responsibility toer the postmaster of the sh post office signed an affid with perance additionally I spoke to the hting naor from the other side Mr leitz who's here tonight that also have a post office test to the Saint again delivery was listed as 10 days after the hearing but was never delivered T and instead also to sen in other words the only two abing side neighbors to 66 Spencer D never received any notice of the hearing in addition nine of the nine neighbors I spoke to confirmed in writing that I also have that they too did not receive any notice and one additional neighbor confirmed the receipts but on febru in February 2024 which is four months after the hearing all this is to say that however it came to be the countless Neighbors at 66 moner Drive did not receive their notice of the hearing related to the construction of the bar application the fact is that we are not afforded our due process right to participate and be heard at the zoning hearing on November 6 since time is of the essence and respectfully requesting that you stay the construction until we can have an expedited hearing attended by neighbors that could finally have their voices heard and be afforded the due process that we were not granted over six months ago we no fa of our own thank you for your time and consideration first thank com um so couple things on first of all sort of working backwards so this board has zero enforcement power under we have very limited powers under the 12 la which is part of this thick book and those powers do not include the right to stay construction stop construction issue stock work orders and the so that's one thing that we working backwards in terms of the notice um Property Owners what the law says it's not this board's law it's what the state law says is that for variant applications an applicant needs to obtain a recent certified um Property Owners list from the the tax collector tax assessor and then based on that list send certified by certified mail proper notice at least 10 days prior to the hearing it's not 10 business days it's 10 calendar another thing about what the law says and again we don't make the law follow it is that notice is effective from the time it sent at least 10 days prior to the hearing two caveats that number one is there's been many instances over many many years since new Lang effect New Jersey where for whatever reason property owners that are that been sent the notice at Le con prior the hearing they don't actually receive it in some cases until after the hearing in that case what the courts have said is that all the applicant needed to do was comply with the law and send out the notice if the notice wasn't received it's not the applican burden to make sure the notice was actually received 10 days prior of the hearing or even two days prior the hearing as long as they get the proper list they make sure that their mailings import with that list even if the list contains erroneous addresses the courts have said that that satisfies right or wrong that satisfies due process in terms of hearing applications that's that's what the law says now I don't know this board cannot give advisory opinions with regard to um what you're contending however um if there is a contention that something was wrong by law with the way the notice was sent out to Property Owners then you should certainly I would suggest speak to a lawyer about what steps should be taken and there are steps that can be taken um in that in that instance even though the 45 days within which to file an appeal of a determination is already long pass that being said I I would certainly um at least investigate what what the cause was as to why assuming that we saying is true no reason you think it's not as to why so many of the the notices were as you stated returned to send or didn't go so if it is and I understand everything you're saying if it was returned to send which means either the applicant or his proxy would have received it back doesn't he have a duty to resend it so there's a lot of room for error here well let me I'll give you I'll give you an example so very often um cases need to be carried and they can't be heard because notice is defective and that could run a number of courses either it wasn't published on time in the newspaper the notice that was provided to the property owners was incorrect you know substantively or there's instances where the applicant Andor the attorney architect whoever was responsible for the notice got it wrong they didn't include all the addresses it was supposed to be 58 paror and they sent it to 68 right could be if if they make a clerical error based on a correct accurate valid notice um then that constitutes allegedly impr proper improper notice because not all the property owners within within 200 ft receed based on a correct Property Owners list that was supplied by the ten that's something we should speak to um I wanted to speak to all these neighbors who did not receive anything it seems a little suspicious if not malarious that something took place and I was not afforded the opportunity and I'm the one that gets impacted the most because they thought a variance to come six feet closer to the property line and this is a neighborhood where the houses are pretty close together as it is so I'm just out of luck I guess because no I I just said to you that what you can do on the facts is at least have somebody look at it and see whe whether proposition whether there was some sort of illegality in terms of how the notice was was provided what what Stu you guys have anything [Music] where where you in and your name and address for the record had five different neighbors there and this these neighbors we been about a year ago did if remove the privacy screen that we have we cut down Alles and on oury they had somebody wielding [Music] a they it's the first interaction we have the only inter they never came to tell us I found out this morning that they a major reconstruction so I don't trust them they never told us about this recru conru the only interaction we ever have so I and you know you guys are talking about through processing and you have no responsibility but let me tell you what happened to the post my wife's identity was months you put a whole mail on my mail get mail for two months they I'm hold mail on my mail went down and I said where's my mail said you put a hold on I never put a hold on you need a form out for said yeah show me the form two mons this is the post off you guys are relying on for us to get no and they arrested two guys out of the PO stealing and that's how my wife's idty was going my from you know have responsibil problem problem it's your problem this is the post off you're with people like me people to get notices people I don't know if you one people no IDE sorry without any further comment the [Music] audience raised um motion to what the way change state [Music] that state law is to speak to your state senators and sment and have those individuals introduce bills and get to the committee and ultimately approved by the sen the Senate approved by the assembly s the governor's office and the governor sign the bill changing the law there are a lot of I shouldn't say a lot there are some laws within the municipal lus law that remain um that you know certain practitioners you know to say fall into question for example the fact that um there needs to be newspaper publication notice for certain hearings people say why is that necessary nobody reads the newspaper anymore and yet it's requirment of the musal langage some people say well the way that people know about meetings and hearings is that they're posted on websites right Municipal websites be a requirement about posting on the municipal website and letting the public know about hearings via Municipal website and so far there's absolutely no requirement for that right there's other other requests for notice Beyond 200 ft for certain applications that have more prominent impacts so for example if you're putting up cell towers or Stadium lights that are going to be seen by Beyond feet why shouldn't there be notied with people within 500 those applications or even a building that is more than 10 stories tall right and the answer so far is no so the first would be to contact is that state C yes your state representatives unfortunately construction start today all this is too late I was hoping that we can have a hearing like we should have had no one came from our neighborhood no one came to reut anything just like you saw here tonight we didn't have that opportunity and I was hoping maybe you guys can bring it upon yourselves to do something to help us because we unfortunately this board doesn't have any of those powers and that's what I had suggested well I appreciate that board had the power to approve all of these variances and all of their construction plans and no one came to say anything and you know that just doesn't feel it doesn't feel right it feels like they just went right up to my property line and I have to live with it and I have absolutely no say that's upsetting I think all of you would be accept that another question we can we make a townwide ordinance that says we have to have other notifications post [Music] office it's you want to say something [Music] post office I mean that's for everything just you know I had the scene where they I lost I fra with 10 [Music] checks and getting anything getting them to even do the certifi is impossible got to do 10 at a time go back crazy we call my wife get a little calls you know she calls like the councilman or something she calls somebody not you know not in here I mean like assembly she gets a little action out of the post office it takes town to lose billion a year yeah one question we have a repter one at a time please I was wait um when I was a rookie attorney the first application I had the planning board I had to show up with 98 slips like the certified nail yeah that's actually Supply them count out they do it's the board attorney my hearing actually sat there and counted them all out what we has them and again the key is that you look at what was actually sent or what's called an Affidavit of Mary right the shows I I affirm that on this date which is at least 10 days prior to the hearing I send by certified mail to these addresses right we provide that after dment that is what the law says that they are obligated to do and I saw that in I that doesn't help because they didn't arrive they were delivered so that's great that you can have a stamp certified mailing but if it's not delivered what good is it I will tell you this I have a service I signed up for the you post to service that tells you what know you're going to get the next St right I would say about 65% of it shows up and it was scaned so you know it's there you know it's this about 65% ofes so um I will chase my post up post you guy down and say how do you not have this on a truck supposed to be here today and there's always a story I have a post office box at the sh post office with a a very active business I will go days as and all of a sudden 50 pieces show up on one day and I asked George and I asked all the people there what happened and my woman said to me we have I come in part time on Saturdays and that's usually when I get time to put it in so I'm not saying there's justification for any of the issues that you're dealing with and and I'm very sorry to hear what you are doing but that unfortunately is as as Mr Simon Says out of our control and it's unfortunately may be archaic it may be you know just an Antiquated system that we use but until there's a better way well may I interject sure there we all agree that the postal service is rotten and doesn't do a good job so there is a better way how about handing the letters there are 20 of your neighbors you can walk to the right you can walk to the left you can hand it to them the problem with that is that there is no receipt of that so the the the actual certificate that's filled out is technically the receipt for the ordinance or the law that says that it was it was made an an attempt remember they're like evil con evil they're paid for the attempt not the actual execution that's done okay um so so they get paid for the attempt and and whether you get it or not you know that's a whole other thing and it's not required to be sister just certified it doesn't have to be returned re it and it absolutely should be because that would all these problems would not I wouldn't be here if it was certified return receive then they would know if I got it or not if they didn't receive it back they would come to me and say hey did you get the letter and by the way this neighbor talked to him all the time never said have to return receipt stuff that I get in my mailbox stuck to the back of the envelope and thrown in the box so they don't even ask for the receipt back still stuck on it with receipt the guy paid 12 bucks to get back it's still stuck the envelope it's shameful but this is where we are and we have construction going on right on my side yard my kids are home from college they want to enjoy the time in the house nice and quiet it's not trees were coming down trucks are in the side yard it is horrible and I woke up on Wednesday to find all this out and I didn't have the opportunity to maybe not get a variance maybe a million things but that maybe is gone now I don't have that chance well with anything obviously neighbors are sometimes the best uh overseers of a project so you know whether or not they could have been deterred from happening is the thing all together if you were here or with your neighor whatever may have been but I assure you that whether Town Arbus the engineering department is has oversight so if there's an issue you see reach out to and discuss it and they will send something out to review it if you find that something not being [Music] done especially in instance where there are trees that you're on your property or are on the common property that are [Music] beinged too late four trees were taken down beautiful trees that shaped my property taken down Wednesday morning before I even understood what was happening I that that are your trees no they were their trees that's under that's under their purview of course and that's a whole organ that's you can't go that so with that any further that's all we got and iest motion second all those in favor