uh I'd like to call to order the regular meeting of the Mars Township Board of adjustment for April 29th 2024 a legal notice required in accordance with the open public meetings act will been satisfied and a statement certifying say will be executed please join me Inge the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all Mr Goldberg here M rman here Mr Williams here Mr Schuster here Mr tackenberg here Mr framer here Mr wooder here Mr Hansen here Mr ly here Mr Warner here and Sago here okay Miss Betty sorry Miss Simmons okay uh first order is the consideration for appr of the Min February 264 board meeting members any comments on the uh minutes if not I'll take a motion to accept the minutes motion to accept that a second second was the Second Son Cher thank you all in favor any opposed and one exstension okay next we have uh several resolutions the first being for ba-1 d24 Morgan Stanley oh summary chairman sir that was uh Mr oler drafted these resolutions as the board is aware this was amended preliminary and final site plan and use vars approval D1 to construct two building facade mounted signs at the office located at 340 Mount Campbell Avenue and it was an approval with conditions noted on page three and hopefully it's an accurate memorialization of the board's determination in that matter thank you board members any any comments if not I'll entertain a motion thank you second thank you Williams Santiago okay Mr Goldberg yes Mr Williams yes Mr Schuster yes Miss Simmons yes Mr Kramer yes Mr wer yes so move next we have b-02 24 uh Brian yes Mr chairman with your permission that was to modify an existing non-conforming dwelling by constructing two one-story editions uh and squaring off the rear dwelling and involve multiple bulk variances sidey yard setback along the easterly side along the Westerly side and combined sidey yard set setback as well as an expansion of a non-conforming structure and the board did approve that application as well conditions noted on pages three and four and again hopefully our board attorney memorialized that resolution and that decision accurately as well I have one note on there on the uh first page about a little more than halfway down the first Clause beginning first paragraph beginning with whereas there is a number eight in the middle of the line and that should you omitted omitted okay for that uh adjustment to the resolution uh does any other board members have any comments concerning the U resolution if not I'll entertain a motion thank you I have a second second thank you Mr Goldberg yes Mr Williams yes Mr Schuster yes M Simmons yes Mr Kramer yes Mr wer yes so move the third U resolution ba- 0324 uh 390 South Street LLC and Mr chairman that one uh was for permission to construct a 157t addition to a pre-existing non-conforming to cach garage involving various F variances front yard setback D Lane rear yard setback roof height building coverage two accessory structures whereas only one is permitted on the lot in the zone and uh to allow 2,932 square feet of total floor area for all accessory structures in excess of the maximum permitted of 900 square feet and that also was an approval conditions set forth on pages three and four and again hopefully an accurate memorialization of the board's decision in that matter okay board members any comments if not I'll entertain a motion so moved thank you second sanago Mr Goldberg yes Mr Williams yes Mr Schuster yes Miss Simmons Mr Kramer yes Mr wooder yes so move all right next is uh ba-17 d23 Michael Ying block 6503 lot 54 M Santiago yes Mr chairman um the purpose of this application was to um announce a special meeting date for this application I was unable to get the board to come up for a special meeting so this application will continue on May 20th at 7 o'clock it's May 20th May 20th well we'll see if I could get a special meeting in between that time and then we will make an announcement on the 20th son so with the chair's permission yeah we we can swear you in for Testimony if you wish with respect to the request to carry but if I can help perhaps explain further what Miss Santiago was saying uh it's not necessarily expected that the hearing is going to continue on May 20 but the municipal land use law requires that when the board adjourns a matter they uh without further notice they have to announce the board has to announce that it's set for a particular date time time and place so if I understand this Santiago and the board correctly they're going to continue to Endeavor to find a date that uh might be able to accommodate uh your your being present as objectors so it's not set in stone and it may not be at all that it's taking place on May 20th but for now a date has to be set and that is the next meeting date as I understand it that is correct that's correct and also keep in mind that if a special meeting we come up with a special meeting the applicant will have to notice okay so there will be if there's a special meeting he have to notice for that hearing so the short of it is the board as I understand it is going to continue to try to accommodate your being present uh at the hearing okay so if the meeting proceeds we not here so we'll tell you right now don't want well we can't testify out because the hearing is not continuing right now right so I I think you want to stay in communication I'm sorry Mr chair I think you have expressed that through your questions with with very much certainty but we are endeavoring to find a date for a special meeting uh M Santiago has sent out two rounds asking people we I can get this date I can get this date can I get a quum together and right now there's several dates at the beginning of June that we're looking at but you has to P all the board members to make sure that they are available board professionals are available and the applicant is available with uh their Witnesses I I think it's if I may Mr chairman I think everyone should stay in touch with Miss Santiago as to uh when the uh when May 20 may turn into another date no that's that's fine okay that's what I'm here for okay but just keep in mind that if we come up with another date the applicant must notify the neighbors within 200 feet okay of that new date it's not it's not for us is there it would probably be in the first complete week of June if we got a special date and first June well if I if I may s Mr chairman suggest that uh is there an a council for the applicant for that particular matter uh there's nothing wrong with communicating with Miss Santiago or making a request to council to try to for the applicant to try to commodate you ultimately as you might imagine uh it uh it becomes a Sit could become a situation where they have a right to proceed with their application at some point uh irrespective of trying to accommodate everyone who might want to be here but uh certainly I would hope that they would you know work together with uh all interested parties can you send a note or email M Santiago with the dates when you would be available or the days you wouldn't be available then we can work out from there okay okay yes so we again for now at least the matter has been carried without further notice to May 207 PM this same location the municipal building for now next application is ba-20 d23 U Santiago yes Mr chairman this is ba-20 d23 Donna monther block 2807 lot 119 Shady Side Street in the ra15 zone for Section D applicant proposes to convert existing detached garage into an in-law suite and Mr chairman if I may with your permission I did have an opportunity to review the notice I found the content to be sufficient I found the notice to be timely served and published it was served by certified mail on April 8th published on April 11th uh both of which dates are at least 10 days prior to this evening uh so the board does have jurisdiction to hear and decide the application this evening thank you thank you chairman sir chairman members nice to see everybody on behalf of the applicant Larry call thank you for having us tonight Mr chair members we intend to be relatively expeditious on our end I realize the relief involved V relief technically and we'll explain that shortly and I'll introduce you to our our witness deck uh but there's not all that many moving parts of a project like this and it's a type of a project I think this board has seen a number of times over the years on on varied properties with different circumstances but not a very unique request before the board this evening um very brief background Mr chair and members the property that we're talking about here at nine Shady Side for the record it's block 2807 lot 11 it's more than a double-sized property it's about 37,500 square feet of a property in the zone that requires less than half of that it fronts on two streets Shady Side and Terrace Avenue there's an existing principal structure there's an existing accessory structure garage um there's also a pool a shed and accessory equipment related to that pool none of that is changing by way of this application um that's all remaining what's changing here is the repurposing of that secondary structure we're going to call it a carriage house just to be consistent this evening that garage Carriage House structure is supposed to be utilized as a residential dwelling unit one dwelling unit is going to have one bathroom two bedrooms our architect will walk you through the floor plan Loop but the intent is to repurpose that structure that's there now for purposes of a dwelling unit and the intent is for the applicant to essentially stay on this property with their family they've been on this property just shy at 50 years already the applicant's family uh they intend to remain uh the applicant's son is a full-time firefighter in Township um they all want to stay here so the plan right now is for the younger generation to occupy this Carriage House a dwelling unit um with the parents and the principal structure and then eventually there's probably going to be a swap when the parents decide they're going to downsize the parents will move out back to the accessory Carriage House and the younger couple who's growing a family will move into the principal structure the intent is for this to stay under common ownership a single lot utilizing the buildings that are here for this family to remain on this property for for years to come that's the intent it brings us to this board because we've got a secondary structure in a single family Zone that's proposed for residential habitable use so it brings us here for D relief for that there is no other non-conformity proposed coverage is conforming building and impervious coverage setbacks conform there's no new deviations proposed for for that garage carage house structures top height um no new structures being located within the setback it's really a repurposing of that structure that's there today for this use as a dwelling unit for the family we're gonna have two witnesses Mr chairman members and you're going to see one new exhibit so first you're going to see our project architect Mike gut willig Mike will walk you folks through the survey that was filed by Lakeland there's not much on it there's no new development propos but we can Orient the board members with the site um by that site survey which shows the existing setbacks and structures and everything that that a a sort of a diet version of a site plan would show you and then Mike will walk you through his architectural floor plan Loop there's not much to it it's a single floor to be habit uh inhabited by the applicants um and there's some elevation details we'll show you as well our second witness Paul Ricky our project planner will testify I know Paul's been here a number of times recently uh Paul's going to walk everybody through the justifications for the D relief and we will have one planning exhibit will'll Mark at that time um Steve when we get to it um it's a short deck it shows an aerial of the property the surrounding area as well as some site photos from different Vantage points as we walk the board through and try to get everybody's Comfort level there with the the use variance relief um and that Mr chairman members that will probably be the entirety of our case we hope to do it in in less than an hour you may proceed thank you yeah just in Cas me know which one Callie c a l l i you have it first just say thank you [Music] if we can get your name and address please business address is fine sure uh Mike O 401 Mount Campell sorry can you spell your last name g t w l l i g I reside and work at 401 Mount Campbell same place and in your licensed professional background academic experience Mike we hope i'mna Square him in first okay yeah so it counts please raise your right hand do you swear to God or affirm that testimony you're about to give is a truth a whole truth or nothing but the truth yes thank you got so Mike if you would for the benefit of the board your background and credentials in the field of architecture which is what we intend to qualify you in shortly as an expert well I went to NGIT received Bachelors of architecture worked for five or six years uh for different corporate firms doing corporate architecture and then I took my exam and I've been practicing as residential and Commercial architect for the last 17 years in uh New Jersey Connecticut Pennsylvania and uh Jersey of course your license is current in a good standing in the state of New Jersey yes it is thank you expert yeah I will accept you as an expert thank you Mr chairman so thank you Sonia for bringing that so Mike what we have up here on the screen now is the file Lakeland survey it's not mocked up it's the one that's been submitted to the board if you wouldn't mind just briefly orienting the board with the property as well as the subject structure that we're going to be talking about shortly the carriage house we could just get the last revised State on the record I have a 11124 is that accurate 114 yes thank you whatever you're wel comfortable with you could use that microphone on stand there just press the button this right here yes press the button at the bottom please just you could take it out there you go press the B the button in the bottom to turn it on thank you hello hello yeah hold it down a little bit the light should go on I think that works okay very good thank you okay um I this could be as a good way to designate so I guess this a corner lot right here and the original house is right here on the Main Street On the Sunny Side and then the the side street here wraps around and goes up a hill and then they have a garage in the back that's the proposed uh reuse right back here so it's been existing the uh the other houses the neighboring hous is over here something area and um basically what we are our idea was to take the upper level the ground level and to just basically reuse the first level as being a a residential a two-bedroom one bath and a living room um for the uh for the relatives to basically have a uh so they could each have a different place to uh stay at that structure that we've been talking about Mike the carriage house structure for for continuity purposes let's call it that it's existing today in its current footprint square footage and size with no changes proposed to that the structure itself is that right yes it's an existing wooden frame uh garage structure the only repurposing is effective the interior of that to make it habitable space right on the upper level correct that's what we're basically going to be doing is just basically filling in the Box on the first floor ground level to make it so going from a storage area slash car area to a now a place where two uh two-bedroom uh people could stay for for for a certain time any other site changes proposed Mike nope only other change maybe would be to revamp the uh ramp that would be for to get cars in we'll probably change that into a uh the steps and a uh a little uh walkway main front door there but nothing that requires Board review or code deviations no everything is within the code uh requirements for the town you want to go to your sure you can step to that the architecturals [Music] well technology has gone up quite a bit since the last time I was here at the don't chinx this yeah paper back just in this is true this is this is true I always bring up the old-fashioned paper documents just in case all right so this this is basically the uh architectural layout the elevations and the plan and if you could just give us a last revised date on that so we can confirm it's what was submitted that was submitted back in August of last year I've got 8 1823 is that the last Revis that's the last re revision uh first and last okay yep for the architecturals nothing really much has changed since day one okay Mike if you want to part walking the board through the floor plan loop I know the elevations are effectively staying the same if you want to walk the board to the loop talk about what the rooms are going to be allocated for and total square footage for the union okay correct um well the where the existing as you look remember from the site plan the existing ramp would be right here which we would convert to three steps and make that the new front door which is basically the the door for the for the set for the ground floor um we would modify the area to have a a sliding door that looks out onto the pool behind and there would be two bedrooms and a bath and laundry room and a kitchen and basically all within the existing footprint of the existing uh garage and then the below would be the existing garage where they would still continue to use that as a garage and this would be the back that would look over onto the pool and this would be the front with the new where the I guess it was a barn door that was going to be converted into a regular traditional styled front door and uh windows and it's around I think it's 900 square feet I think I have on my thing here 885 exactly you're R just under 900 squ feet just under 900 square feet for the existing conditions of the of the footprint and uh no expansions or any changes otherwise and they maintain the same height overall also we've got some existing utilities run to the structure now I believe yes I do believe it has electrical and uh water but I think that they'd have to inquire about getting sewer from uh from the town and otherwise uh I think everything is self- sustain you know they have everything already there now you heard my profer to the board mic as to the goal and purpose here of the applicant with the two structures for the family in your own words when you were tasked with designing the space the purpose was what exactly in your own words well I guess in this today and age pre you know post coad situations where there's a lot of more families that are living together and there's extended family situations going on these days it seems like if you have a situation where you have a space that's underutilized and you can use that for something to have so that you can have your family live together for an extended period of time I think that it all fits into a very simple plan and it makes it so that they could be able to uh since the since Brendan the son who wants to live here you know potentially you know he's working in the town as a fireman so he's going to be around here for quite a bit of time and uh family has been here for quite a bit of time so I assume that they would both be wanting to kind of make it so that they can kind of have it so that they have basically both have shared shared residents which has become somewhat of a norm in this day and age and M the last question I have for you it's sort of unrelated to zoning it's just a confirmation we're putting habitable space above the garage structure you're obviously going to meet all building construction code requirements including all fire suppression requirements that would apply right here correct yes for all residential requirements all those things will be met when when the construction commences when we get permits which would be phase two Mr chairman I have no further question Mr gut will I make him available to any questions you might have so somewhat familiar with this property because I walked past it probably about 200 times um on our regular walking but uh the property uh the lowest point on the property would be like in the northeast corner is that correct yes the on the on the survey on the survey yes so if you're looking at the survey directly the lowest part of the property be on the lower leand corner and highest point is the uh southwest corner of the property is that correct I'm not sure the the I think it's the Northeast and southwest yeah I think well the top right would be or the top part of the survey would be the upper part of elevation there it kind of goes up a hill and it and it tops up at the top of the hill behind behind the back street there rightest so um so this front uh the asphalt drive that have shown on a survey that leads up to this present ramp corre to stay an asphall driveway yeah everything that on the site that is existing today on the survey is all going to remain it's all it's all pre-existing um nothing is being proposed to be added it's all um event those are all landscape uh situations that have all been there uh previously and u i not on the plans there's no stair uh staircase leading from the garage to the uh proposed dwelling areas correct correct yes it would be it would be add it would be kind of a treated as I guess two separate spaces if I don't have any other questions board members I had a couple questions um do you know can you turn your microphone on please thank you okay great um do you know what year the garage was built in I'm sorry we word from above it was built in 1988 so sorry I know you know what the answer is but uh we got to swear you in before you inite pre offer um on the the plans in the bathroom um is that the is that a can you it looks like it has a tub correct yes it would be a uh laboratory toilet and then a tub a tub shower and then a one vanity um just curious because some of the things that you know you think about when you're thinking about this potential future swap is Ada compatibility um you know if parents are going to be Aging in place so I just was wondering you know with having a tub there if that was it sounds like someone younger is going to be living there for a while first oh I well I felt that usually I usually as a as a standardized type of situation usually I offer in my designs I would offer a tub SL shower combo okay and that way you know you you have the room and space to to do whichever it is that and that way you know younger people that want to do a bathtub or older people that want to do a bathtub they can have a bathtub and then you know other people that want to take a shower really quickly they have both those options so and this is this could in terms of if you wanted to make it one f one floor living this this stairway here is technically right now is a ramp right now now so if they wanted to ever make it into a ramp or at a ramp at some some time then they could easily do that and that could make it so that if like you had someone who was older that couldn't get around very well they could easily make that a Ada kind of accessibility okay that's it thank you thank you okay any other board members with questions any members of the public with any questions I did have one but I don't know planner engineer have but the the um the plans say that the maximum height is an existing eight just over 18 feet is that accurate yes well we actually went around we had to get the survey redone a couple times because there's obviously due to the Steep SL you know due to the fact that this the property does slope that they were and generally in all the towns that I've done zoning analysis for um we usually do a uh there's an average between the heights around the entire um building so we did I think it's on the survey if you look that it will show the different elevation marks that we had redone by the surveyor to show that it maintains that that that certified well the height that that they calculated by going the reason I ask is it's according to the zoning Code table on your plans it's a an existing or pre-existing perhaps non-conformity because the maximum permitted height for the accessory structure is 15 ft if that's accurate on your plans uh so I guess the question is is is do we know well the garage was built in 1988 correct uh the did that pre-exist the zoning requirement for 15 foot Max permitted height for an accessory structure yeah I'm not sure the history on uh the maximum Heights with the town um but I do know that they've kind of I think they've changed over the years I do believe that now it's uh you know they have it as uh I think it was 25 for the main structure and then 17 for the for the accessory structures or am I 35 and 15 35 and 15 and and do we know when that ordinance came into play David okay and I'm gonna my apologies if I could Mr chairman I forgot to swear on our board professionals uh uh our planner and our engineer both of whom just raised a r right hand do both of you swear to God or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you both now you can tell me David under CH 9536 accessory structures and uses under subparagraph a it says amended December 6 2006 by ordinance 2806 but it doesn't state which section of that first sub paragraph were so we don't and we don't know if it was under 50 15 or under before just maximum of any accessory building except this [Music] provided shall be 15 feet may maybe I could just to speed this along Mr chairman my apolog didn't mean a slow with Stu just want to make sure we do get it all right uh council did you uh is is would you concur that it might be prudent to request bul variant relief in the absence of proof that this this is a pre-existing non-conformity without a doubt we ask recognize that existing structure so our Oprah did not yield any prior resolutions from the board or any height deviations the structure was permanent right but but no prior resolution so the only their assumption is we predate the code however I think to round out the edges the request is for this board to recognize the existing structure is 18 ft and per to remain right and and and with that sometimes they refer to that I think the legal term is a up variant the the the the um it would be uh uh your C the catchall provision and your notice was certainly cover it you notice for the D variants and any and all others so it's my opinion the board does have jurisdiction should the board Grant requested here to also Grant should the board so desire uh a a bulk variance for height of the accessory structure to remain at 18 FT 1 inch whereas the max permitted is 15 feet in light of the fact that we don't know definitively uh at least at this point whether this is a pre-existing non-conforming Conformity or just something that hasn't gotten around to be addressed by the board uh also I don't know if uh is it safe to say that the uh TCC meeting summary of October 12 2023 uh that all eight of those matters were either resolved or you'll you're stipulate to conditions of approval set forth they're in unless I'm stealing our board PL planners Thunder which I'll stop but with the permission I'll continue uh we got a new survey right we do that's the one that we showed you uh you added the uh uh tax map and the location plan on sheet V2 plans this was all done pre pre- completen determination right so all all all these items one through uh seven okay got verification of the height uh we just suggest that and there was uh maybe I'll leave this to our board planner with the chair's permission but there's uh at least reference to the consideration of a deed restriction with respect to the occupancy of the new unit something for the board to consider uh as well as the possibility of a sunset provision as a condition of approval do you wish to address either both of those I I think the appropriate one might be a condition that restricts the secondary use to have this connectivity to the principal use and that is the applicant's intent that this is going to be a family relationship between those who are living in structure a versus structure B the carriage house and that's the intent in perpetuity here so the applicant would have no issues with the deed restriction whether it be an actual restrictive instrument recorded or the resolution itself recorded which indicates that the user the occupant of that carriage house needs to have a familial relationship with the persons who are living in the principal structure that is certainly something the applicants amendable to um and with that we see sort of no need for the sunset as a redundancy because you know something like that should logically um survive in perpetuity because of the structure we're dealing with here the lot size the area the composition of this property we think the variance is the variance so the deed restriction we think would certainly be appropriate and we're amendable to that okay then would that be also with the Assumption in the condition that the lot size is remaining as is and not being further subdivided yeah I think that's fair I mean that wouldn't preclude the applicant one day from trying to subdivide the property raising that accessory structured Carriage House and pursuing development of a larger single family structure but uh the applicant will agree not to um further adjust lot lines here diminishing the lot area so long as we have this Carriage House structure in use I think that's fair I don't uh I guess there were some conditions of approval from the uh Utility Authority that right I take it you'll be stipulating to as well yes April 11 2024 Southeast Mars County Minal Utility Authority conditions of approval with respect to water meter uh meter pit and uh serving size certification and the fire department didn't have not not that I'm aware of no um I don't have anything further thank you Mr chairman I just have one clarifying question on this on the smuck applic uh letter so um it says if the work does not require an increase in the size of the water service or relocation of the water meter maybe for the main dwelling can remain as is has it been determined yet whether or not it can made as is or if it's the water line excuse me the existing water line the water line yeah yeah I think it they were they sent we were talking about the fact that they were going to find out whether or not the service was going to be large enough for them to add a meter but I believe that they they're going to have to if it's 3/4 inch I think they can add another meter to this existing service I believe yeah there was some language about where it was going to be tapped and then the pit itself and then you know the long lead time on the meter pit itself so I to me I don't know if this is going to need the meter pit or not or if that would be sort of oh someone's raising their hand no well I see first your name and address hi Bonnie mesy n Shady Side Street Jersey okay and this is a witness you're calling as this is this a representative of the applicant applicant okay please raise your right hand do you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you with the chair's permission proceed NCC l k y um n Shady Side Street is currently using a well so we if we do need to add a water meter it would be the first water meter on the property okay thank you for that clarifying point it's important so thank you that's a big one any board members with questions yes what about are we talking septic or Town sewer Mike you want to get into the uh Sewer Service to the property I believe it's a town sewer but yeah so the whole area there is all served by the uh SMC mua PR for the sewers I believe it makes it easy too since it's on a corner lot that they have access from both Sunnyside and also the adjacent Street also so right okay any other questions of Mr uh get willly just one question no addition Lighting on the um the only light well required by Co we generally will put the when we do the permit drawings we'll obviously put there'll be require lighting outside of every door so there' be there' be lighting outside of the the entrance way and that's something that will be added when when we get to go for permit drawings you're thinking a residential type Carriage lamp correct yes a wall a wall hung scon would be outside of every every exter exterior door so that would be just the one door there and then there probably be a door light out here too in the back no no lights fill off the premises correct no it would be a wall scon just to light the perimeter of the uh the entry is there going to be gas service to this or propane or is it just going to be electric and water um I'm not sure about the gas there's there's gas but I yeah I think that they'll probably will inquire to get get service to gas because they're going to have a certain amount of HVAC to deal with so there will be I don't know if there's gas existing or not I Gas and Electric existing and um I'm guessing that nine Shady Side brings their trash out to Shady Side and this new property which new residents would come out on to Terrace Avenue I think we would play by year and do with whatever the The Collection you know folks are are looking to pick up whether or not they make that turn there so it could work its way out to Shady Side it may come out on the side street it be more convenient but we'll uh we'll accommodate whatever the uh requests are of The Collector you only get two cans these days so yeah any other questions da any other questions okay members of the public uh any questions of either witness seeing none hearing none close the public portion thank you Mike okay Mr thank you our second of two witnesses are project planner Paul Ricky Paul will be presenting with a new document tonight that will Mark once he um brings it up um we also have handouts to make it EAS so this is multi- Pages maybe it's easier if we just pass out handouts yeah but it's it's also I could put it up did you put it up yeah sure extra's good yeah we never complain about that I got one take two you have enough this was a b Feld up you're ready uh do you swear to God or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I great name and address business address is fine for the record name is Paul Ricky R ICI 177 Mammoth Avenue Atlantic Highlands New Jersey well I know you've been here a number of times in recent months before this board in the planning B applications is a qualified professional planner but briefly for the record of your background credentials and confirm your licenses current and in good standing yes um I'm a licensed professional planner I've been licensed since 2000 my license isn't good standing you remind me I have to I have to pan in my new license information um I'm also a member of the American Institute of certified planner since 1999 I have a master's degree in city and Regional planning from Ruckers University which I received in 1997 I'm currently a board consultant in in six towns consultant um I testify before this board approximately 250 boards through throughout the state um several courts in the matter so always qualify we'll accept them as an expert thank you Mr chairman so Paul before we start just to confirm a few things in the record you investigated the property you visited the site in the surrounding area is that right that's correct you're familiar with the underlying code that applies particular the ra zoning district and the township relevant provision is that right I am you familiar with the development plans that are on file in connection with this project B the survey know quasi site plan as well as the architectural drawing is that right yes as well as the intent of the applicant as known to you from the applicant directly is that right correct and you had a chance to put together an exhibit deck it's a three pages three pages three page exhibit deck um Steve would you mind if we mark this collectively as A1 that's fine it's a three-page compendium you know I like to use that word compendium I can't that word that's why he does it SP check in the resolution um oh compendium oh it's a real word yeah I think the plural is compendium don't don't check me on that I'm joking I'm joking so thank you so so this three-page deck um prepared by Ricky planning it is date of April 2024 it's three color pages and Paul walk through that poll so what I'll do now is I'll turn over to you to describe the project as you see it as well as the relas justifications for that release sure I mean I can be pretty quick with the exhibit it's really just to orient the board just in case you weren't able to get out uh in front of the property uh the exhibit was prepared in a geographic information system allows me to Overlay multiple layers and real world coordinates the arrow is dated 2020 that's the most recent AI That's available for this type of data and the lot line base was provided by Morris County uh GIS as well as the zoning layer um you can see on the on the map the subject property is is outlined in Orange um you can see the the zone line in red separating the R ra15 versus your ra 35 District you know your ra15 we know allows single family homes on 15,000 square foot Lots here the the subject property is 2.66 times larger uh than the minimum lot size for the district I thought also I thought also um rather than going into a bunch of statistics for the area you can see based on the lot base that you know this is an oversized lot and that the platting pattern for the area is more consistent or closer to that 15,000 uh square foot minimum you can also see I want you to recognize that North is shifted uh to the left on this exhibit and I just have eight eight photographs um most of them are the subject property and a couple photographs just to kind of fill out the the pages uh view one is from the Shady Side Street Frontage clearly no changes being proposed uh on this side of the property picture number two is you know we're going around the bend now on on Terrace Avenue and this is the side view of the existing single family residents where no changes are proposed and then here now we're we're going further uphill on um Terrence Avenue and there's is a picture that shows the the existing driveway that's I'll show you if you look at picture four it's kind of like kind of almost like a panoramic type feeli between pictures three and four where you can see that existing driveway in place that ultimately leads to picture number four where the proposed uh accessory dwelling unit which which I'm referring to it as is proposed saw the architectural elevations from the architect from this Frontage uh there's no substantial change to the mass of the building he talked about how there will be a change to the garage door there that become more of a residential look and feel on the front of the building um and then picture number five is just another another picture um just going uh fur further up teren Avenue so you can start to see how in the back of the building it's it's it's taller from the rear as it as it as it slopes away and you can see the throughout some of the pictures some of the old style Colonial fencing that that surrounding the property uh picture number six I just took it this is a picture that's taken from Shadyside Street and you're looking towards Terrace avue you can it shows you how the the road wraps around on the corner lot and it shows the expansiveness of the property and then we had a couple pictures to fill in the remaining portion of the exhibit so we have a couple pictures of of homes in the area picture number eight is the most is the closest Home across the street from where the detached garage is so there was a garage to garage situation now you have more of a you know a residential Frontage building that would be facing upon the side view of a three-car garage on another Corner line uh from a planning standpoint we we are seeking the the D1 use variance and now it appears a a a C1 hardship variance for a lawfully existing uh pre-existing condition that's legal that's not being exacerbated as part of this application hypothetically speaking if the board were to deny this application that structure Mr Cy said could remain that's in place not in its current form but its current height um as exists today so we believe under the C1 hardship Provisions um that the applicant is entitled to that to that hyp variance because it is a a lawfully pre-existing building um I do believe as a planner that it is the intent of the law to allow use variances sparingly in only in with with special exceptional conditions I believe this is an application that clearly falls under that realm um I believe that this application and I'll go through it more detail uh results in sound land use planning part of our argument you've already heard from Mr CI is that and you can see on the exhibit that this is an oversized lot that could be subdivided by right and have two single family lots and and really and then a remainder um under this proposal there'll be really no change to the to the character of the area um but you know I think that's part of the the benefit to the neighborhood here as the board likely recognizes anytime you do create a new lot you know there is utility associated with that lot down the line that there could be changes to the property here I think this gives the town more control as well as it would regulate the property more as a as a homestead lot um we're really talking about it an imaginary line on a piece of paper though from a land use perspective because a person driving by when will not recognize the difference what they will recognize whe is whether there's too much development there whether the homes are too closed together or they're not and things of that nature um and and this is a really like trendy I don't want to say trendy it's a wrong word I want to just uh pull that statement back um in current times today um we're seeing an evolution in how uh acccessory dwelling units are being considered and just hear me out please on on on this issue um uh currently um the the Murphy Administration the governor um in his February budget address and I'm going to read this for my notes he proposed a $10 million program to Spur both market rate and affordable they say 80us accessible accessory dwelling units by giving up to 1 million to at least 10 Towns which would then pass out $100,000 in forgiv Capital Loans to homeowners looking to build new structures or rehabilitate the their homes to create more deed restricted housing so the state is partially funding uh this program to help create uh Workforce housing more affordable housing um and part of my research also suggested i' I've testified in Princeton um that towns are changing their zoning laws today some people might have read some articles over the paper over the last week or so about some of these towns um by way of example approximately 12 towns already have regulations in place that allow accessory dwelling units to occur by right in their towns and some of those towns include Princeton map I testified in Princeton because the single family homeowner was located in a commercial zone so the ordinance didn't apply to him but otherwise there it's a buy right uh for single family homeowners in Princeton uh Maplewood Montclair East Orange South Orange Bradley Beach Newark and Jersey City I believe that Asbury Park and Pake are are working on such regulations and I think it's also important to recognize that the Senate as part of Bill 2347 that was gu it's introduced is the bill introduced is that the right vernacular introduced in January 2024 that would make accessory dwelling units legal as an additional unit where single family homes are permitted I think it goes on to say single and two family homes in that bill and it it's part of that bill the way it's proposed and I have a copy of I can give that as a exhibit tonight um any density requirement that that a town has in place that that wouldn't be in effect and the bill goes as so far as as not to have restrictions for um that there be tied to a family member or the like it has restrictions on on maximum of one parking space so the the the I mean the state recognizes that there's a is a a great need for housing Workforce housing and affordable housing and I think we all recognize this this a you know highly intelligent board but just another figure uh according to the New Jersey Association of Realtors the media of price in a home sold in the state balloon from $332,500 of January 20 20 right before covid to 515,000 less than four years later so as a percentage that's a tremendous increase and I think the state and other states are are looking for ways without uh drastically changing characters of community to provide opportunities to integrate new housing and here this is an an application where it's it's for a family member involved and there they've agreed to allow this to be right associated with with the family um I think there are lot of benefits Associated from a planning perspective of these units uh clearly it creates a more affordable housing option um it also has the benefit of being able to provide housing quickly you know there's a there's a housing shortfall so if these structures are in place those housing units can be created more quickly um I think they're also an efficient use of existing structures that are in place so it's a it's a more sustainable approach to development and I think there's a lot of uh uh social benefits that are that are associated with these units as well as here now you can see the applicant is expecting you have grandparents involved and you have those the ability to have those family interactions more the way that I think we historically liveed as a civilization with the exception of the last 50 to 75 years um so I think there's a social interaction uh well-being uh aspect of this as well and um and I think as a planner as well as I was portioned to say that this is a responsible way of providing uh infill development without the need to you know essentially um uh disturb Green Fields farms and other type activities allow Urban expansion and the like it's the easiest way to integrate uh development into communities without substantially changing the state as a whole uh I did look at your master plan your your 2017 master plan reexamination um it was silent on this issue but it does say on page 45 U changes in housing preferences this is kind of a long paragraph I'm not sure if you want me to read the entire paragraph to is that okay no go for it okay this is on page 45 changes in housing preference in recent years housing preference among two large demographic groups the Baby Boomers and parentheses those born between 1946 and 19 1964 and parentheses in the millennial generation parentheses born between 1977 and 1994 and parentheses has trended away from traditional large lot single family housing proximity to public transportation such as bus Subway Light Rail or communal rail has also become attractive to potential home buyers and renters as more communal characteristics like sidewalks and being within an easy walk or drive of shopping and other services in that regard a variety of housing types are also being built as part of new mixed use developments recent development applications in the Morris Township in right reflect the above Trends as the ReUse of the former Honeywell corporate headquarters in the planed Redevelopment of former Colgate palmola manufacturing facility involve a mix of residential and non-residential uses and it goes on to say this is what I wanted you to hear although the planning board anti IP Ates that the township will remain a predominantly single family detached home Community it must still be cognizant of those changing housing preferences as such it should look for opportunities to promote diversity in the Township's housing stock where appropriate I think this application does advance that objective of the master plan um and for these reasons I believe this application um is particularly well suited for the use so it promotes uh or it meets purpose a of the municipal land use law promotes the general welfare I also believe this application uh promotes uh purpose e to promote the establishment of appropriate population densities and concentrations that will contribute to the well-being of persons neighborhoods communities and regions in preservation of the environment here again uh we're under the anticipated density for for this area the township and to provide a sufficient space for residential use to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens purpose G um regarding the negative criteria I believe that the variances can be granted without a substantial detriment to the public good in zone plan a lot of this has already been part of of my direct testimony that this is an oversized lot you know you're we're we're seeking a a C1 variance for an existing 18 foot one condition where if this lot was subdivided a 35 foot home home that's larger could be built there so this application I believe promotes the public good and retaining the exist character and scale uh of the neighborhood um I I think in so regarding the intent and purpose of the yourone plan again uh this is not a substantial departure for those reasons I just mentioned and regarding the medich reconciliation that requires us to to reconcile the admission of this use from your missile master plan first like this use is anticipated in this District just not in the form on one L and I we indicated how again not to be repetitive the lot could be subdivided and we're not asking for more homes than are anticipated here already by um ordinance and I believe that some of the information I provided was part of my the DT reconciliation argument that I believe there are changed circumstances since your 2017 master plan uh was adopted while your master plan still recognized that uh there may be a need for the township to to shift it its housing rules and regulations it was I think well Advanced uh in that regard since then there has become a tremendous need for housing and one that the legislator is even uh currently uh began or what's the word introduced excuse me introduced the bill for specifically uh what this application or what this applicant is is requested here so I I think it's clear that um there are chain circumstances here and that this is an application that meets all three prongs uh of of the V of the variance relief I'm sorry I'm just can't seem to get the words out today that's my direct thank you Paul Mr chairman okay board members any questions yes I recognize because I read the listen to the same address but I'm not maybe I'm not up to date on things the state saw the need to protect drinking water so created an overlay Zone across multiple jurisdictions many jurisdictions called the I may be using the wrong legal term but they created the Skyland bill right and imposed new zoning regulations yeah is there any of that happening here is it started is it even a proposal yet yes it's it's proposed and I can introduce this and under um you can reference it for the records it's Senate number 2347 that was introduced uh in January of of this year that would allow would essentially I mean the state gives you right power to Zone and this would essentially right into the municipal landus law however the state seems fit that it would allow for an accessory dwelling unit and all Lo that allow for single family and two family dwell uh uh uh dwell two single family and two family dwellings the provisions in here today that are proposed is that the municipality um could require setback requirements like similar that you have today and we meet those setback requirements it limits um um just say you had a two-car detached garage that had two parking spaces under this bill if someone would to convert that into an accessory dwelling unit the state under would not take away those as required parking spaces they under the state's rules um and they also say a familial marital employment relationship between occupant of a principal dwelling unit and the accessory dwelling unit um you cannot require that um but it does have Provisions in there that um you can have um um uh Provisions that prohibit like short-term rentals things of that nature um you can require that at least one of the units is owned it's it's owner occupied but it says you can't dictate which one but one of them you can require is owner occupied as part of this so it's not just two rentals um so I mean I I'll leave this here if anyone wants to read it but follow on for my question then I'm legislative lead for organization or I'm one of the legislative leads is there any semblance of this happening in the assembly there's lots of bills that could filed and never anything happens well I I I can't answer that I I've testified on electric vehicles when the when the bill was introduced and people ask me the same question and I'm just not that advanced at the state level Paul just to be clear you're not relying for support of aarian because of this this happens to be coincidental and the timing of it warrants discussion right I think it warrants discussion question I asked the question because I'm I'm curious and and and I was not aware of that bill so maybe they are maybe that is going to be the law at some point Poss that's that's why I asked the question okay and and just another throwaway and it's not a a shot by any means you mentioned affordable housing and the affordable housing well you didn't mention the affordable housing requirements that are levied upon Mars Township is there any way that this can count to the Township's credit no I don't think so but okay it would have to be uh part of it would have to be deed restricted um to an affordable unit it would have to be affirmatively marketed it would have to go through just just an idle question a good question selling point no it it it's a good question but it it it's as of now okay a little more complicated and among other things the familial obligation the tiin would have to be lifted as well in order for it to potentially uh qualify as an affordable housing unit or maybe even more than one credit uh for the township yeah sorry M can I just ask sure okay so Paul I just wanted because the legislation hasn't been adopted and the zoning here has hasn't been changed is it your testimony though that this site given its size given its location orientation onto streets is particularly suited to having an accessory dwelling unit it it is for the for those reasons and reasons I mentioned the secondary were just bolstering my my Arguments for the case okay all right thank you any questions over there m no yes if no other board members have any just had a couple of quick ones one uh picture number eight on page three uh please confirm that's uh block 2809 lot 11 correct correct okay right and uh and picture number seven is 28028 is that correct correct okay and the uh and I I know we clarified this already but uh the legislation is just legislation that was introduced in one of the two chambers of the State House correct corre okay and with respect to the second prong of the negative criteria uh there was never a request for resoning by the governing body correct for this lot right um and uh it's your opinion as a professional planner that the second prong of the negative criteria no substantial uh impairment of the Zone plan which is the master plan of the zoning ordinance um this app this application does not substantially impair with that does not constitute would not constitute a usurpation uh of the uh see what spell check says on usurpation it'll work the usurpation of the governing body's rights Zone uh I I do not believe it would here again the lot size is is 2.6 times greater than required um you know the applicant has not chosen to file a subdivision application but they could right develop two lots by right here um I gave some rationale why how I thought that would help retain by not sub Ving that would help retain the existing character of the area here as a board planner as well I think one of the items that I hear most concerned about is change right so by not changing at least now um I think that's good for the May BR just out of curiosity if you did this investigation um if a subdivision line were drawn is there a way in which a subdivision line were drawn uh and the accessory structure if it became in essence a principal structure on the uh uh uh the new lot yeah um would it comport with the uh all the bulk regulations for that particular lot can it be done in such a way yes it can setbacks and coverage every setback the only thing that would occur is that the pool would have to come with this lot or be removed right got it got it okay I think that might be relevant uh and may actually be helpful so to the applicants thank you nothing further okay any other board members with questions any members of the public with any questions of this witness see seeing none hearing none close the public portion Mr C uh any members of the public want to comment on this uh application if so come up to the microphone yes that microphone turned on oh you got to turn it on and and I'll I'll we'll get your name when it's on we'll get your name and address and I'll swear you there you go hi um my name is Pam Elliot I live at 22 Spencer Drive in Morristown I'm sorry what was I just 22 22 Spencer okay thank you and please raise your right hand you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you you spell your last name please e l l i o TT oh I'm trying okay thanks for asking two T's I am the next door neighbor and I don't know I I need a picture of the house but um our house AB buts with the proposed dwelling and we don't have a problem with it it's um I just I just guess I wanted to go on the record saying that I think that um it is exactly what the planner was saying there's kind of no real change other than the building will change a little would would your if you know would your block and lot be 2807 Lot 10 yes that's the one on the corner of Spencer and Terrace yeah correct going down the hill yeah right spener slopes down and yeah but I mean it's the if you're looking at the picture it's it's the one there's their property our property Spencer sure if I may with the chair's permission um what portion of your I could see the portion of your dwelling that's nearest I guess to the uh uh to the carriage house that we're referring to the applicants referring to uh it's a little fuzzy frankly what rooms of your home are closest are they bedrooms the entire backside of our house um faces onto that the applicant's property so from the corner of the house like on the first floor which is the laundry room kitchen family room whatever um we're all everything is looking right at the back right so we're you have solar panels on the roof we do that's got it that's what was throwing me a little bit it's on the aerial it's blue I I wanted to make sure I couldn't tell if was a tennis court a pool or or the or the roof with solar panels thank you and so the one question I I guess I have is when you're talking about the height and the the 18 feet or whatever is that the height of the the roof line and that's what you're saying is going to remain that would I mean that would be the only thing if it you know became some ridiculous thing that might be something to consider but where it is now I'm the last person to raise an issue all right anything else that's it thank you any other members of the public wish to comment close the public portion Mr C well thank you again for your time tonight Mr chairman and members it's a relatively straightforward simple application we appreciate the staff working with us to go through TCC and completeness anding as always it's it's a great help and the applicant is very eager to get this application before the board and hopefully approved for relatively simple and straightforward use Notting the fact that it technically requires D relief we think it's appreciable the proofs are metair me your consider is there also a pool equipment setback deviation required well so that's kind of like the height I guess Ste that's an existing condition um that's been there that was permitted it's about to put up the property line so to the extent the approval the board votes to approve absorbs the current survey into it by way of reference I mean it's effectively approving those conditions yes the pool equipment is pretty much on the lot line I believe it's about a foot off give or take at any given point those are conditions that are there in the field today those preexisting again yeah existing at least existing is a five foot well but I mean what's the required building envelope now now it would have to be the building envelope pole heaters are considered part of the pool and they have to be located in the envelope created by the setbacks okay and how far out is this one quite a bit 25 ft on the rear yard which is the left side of the proposed garage our apartment and um 20 ft off the what would be the easterly property line okay and is the applicant asking for clean up variant relief on this one as well to recognize those existing conditions and allow them to continue and under the same uh uh uh uh opinions that the planner Mr Richie Ricky gave to with respect to uh uh the uh undue hardship on the height of the accessory structure or is it different or end or additional I believe on the same basis the part of my exp is here Paul on the same basis yes I'm just trying to locate it here I don't see it it's in the South EAS cornerer upper left okay mine's different than Mr Callie's uh yes we would be seeking for any pre-existing conditions I'm assuming they lawful pre-existing conditions under the C1 hardship Prof then uh Mr chairman if we're uh remain close post the the uh the uh applicant is requesting a D1 use variance to convert an existing detached garage or Carriage House on a single family uh lot into an in-law suite uh along with two bulk variances a one for an accessory structure height existing of 18.1 ft uh uh or 18 FT 1 in uh uh versus 15t maximum permitted and full equipment setbacks uh outside of the building envelope uh with by way of the dimensions mentioned by Mr Hansen uh and if uh the board for that relief since there's D variance relief at issue uh granting that relief would require the affirmative vote of at least five of the seven board members qualified to vote this evening uh if that relief is going to be granted I will assume it's with all the conditions stipulated to bu on behalf of the applicant including but not limited those set forth in the planners memo in the environmental commission I'm sorry excuse me the uh utility authorities uh memo uh as well as what I have which is that all building codes of fire code requirements of course would be met uh the uh uh the uh sewer would be uh approval would be obtained from the township if not already obtained the uh app uh the uh use of the carriage house as a dwelling unit would be deed restricted either by way of recordation with the county clerk's office of the resolution in its entirety or a deed restriction which is essentially is a deed to the own whereby the owner uh deed grants a deed to themselves and Records it with the county clerk's office and that deed restriction would include the requirement that the occupants of the carriage house uh would have a familial relationship with the owner and or occupant of the principal structure the single family dwelling uh as well as that there would be a requirement of no further subdivision or other dimunition in the size of the lot the subject lot this scenario just to be clear for for the life of this deed restriction as for the life of this Carriage House being permitted as a separate dwelling unit right right um and there would be no light spillage not that any would be expected from a scon light or two on the dwelling um and I believe that that's all I had by way of additional conditions would it be your preference to have the resolution um recorded or have a deed restriction recorded correctly I think it's it could be left to the applicant although I would say 99% of the time the applicant chooses a deed restriction and uh given the fact that the resolution is going to have so much other language in it I happen to believe that a deed restriction with the appropriate condition I is clearer and better think that probably be the chosen round so we could we could eliminate the recordation of the entire resolution and just leave the deed restriction again all those conditions only come into play if it's a grant of the approval uh it uh and uh that only comes into play if there is at least five affirmative votes for the uh for the application anything else no Mr Hansen any final comments none okay I had a question for Mr Hansen um under our codes how do we Define shortterm rental what is that we don't have a definition for short term but if you go by what's typically used in other municipalities short term is uh less than six months okay because my thought here too is to add into the language that no short-term rental would be because even if you have let's say a family member who's dwelling there they can Airbnb out their place if they want um you know so I just as a extra provision that there's no short-term rental allowed I guess you could say less than six months with the applicant stipulated condition of approval uh in addition to the fact that it would have to be a familiar relationship uh that there can not be any short-term rentals as defined as uh uh six months or less or less than six months less than six months that's fine I don't see how that would even come to play but gets the board's Comfort level up we're f b yeah I I think it's more like 30 days 30 days or short term Yeah Yeah well yeah what's the applicant stipulation and what's talking belt and suspender so uh 30 days is how tight the belt going to be rentals is is a 30day or less rental a short term I could see a scario happen but that that's fine by us okay so we'll add that as an additional condition for consideration by the board in determining whether they'll Grant the relief watch the 30 uh uh no less than 30-day occup the rental no no less yeah okay any other yes uh given the uh the information provided about the pending the state legislation if something like that passes would the uh deed restriction be able to be removed well that's a good that that's that's that's a good question um pending the outcome of the final uh you know Bill if something like that interesting because this relief is being granted this is it's somewhat akin to a time of application rule but uh but it's going in favor of the applicant at that that that point that's an jyam J AI spell Che may not get that one right it's a name j a i s a i r a m it's a case but uh in that context what happens is if if an ordinance Municipal ordinance not state law Municipal ordinance changes to the benefit of an applicant while an application is pending they're allowed to to Avail themselves of that beneficial ordinance is a little different we're talking about after an application is potentially granted in this hypothetical uh would a state law change impact that um at that point the state law what do you think applicants Council think the state law would probably I think but you know at a snapshot of time the we don't know if that's going to pass and again tonight it was for conjecture that this happens to be the trend sure um the applicant is fine with that condition in fact the applicant proactively offered it we talked about it at TCC we brought it up tonight so the applicant linking the two structures uses through a familiar relationship is one that the applicant is all for if state law eventually changes that it probably wipes out this condition's applicability enforceability um but that wouldn't happen until somebody sells the property that that's true too it have to be picked up in a title search yeah and that's when it would be brought up I just didn't know if we had to put something else in there based on that right now no we wouldn't have we we let nature and the law take its course good thank you sh me can someone tell me why we have to have in-law speaking inlaw like the like the family restriction yeah because what I'm I'm thinking is how do we actually prove two years from there how do we actually prove it it's recorded it's deed restricted how do we prove that is that are we walking a thin line on saying hey I don't I don't appreciate it I don't appreciate tell me if it's legal or not but um what we would what it would basically come down to is a neighbor complaining that they like there's you know 14 college kids living in this little place whatever and that's when it would be enforced but if it was you know a a single middle-aged woman living there it probably would never raise a complaint that's I'm saying why would we even need it in if this I can see this being a problem well if it helps the applicant has offered it as a condition of approval I suspect the applicant offered that because the use is not permitted two single family dwellings on one residential dwelling lot is not permitted so it's not uncommon to have some sort of either durational or a relationship you know familial relationship type condition not required board can look at it as a good thing a bad thing or E you know equipos neither uh but uh it was offered by the applicant uh to do it that way um and enforcement for good or bad uh uh enforcement is most difficult aspect in my opinion in L law um but we cannot use enforcement or the difficulty in enforcing conditions uh as a reason to Grant or deny uh technically we have to assume that our Township will be able to enforce uh not only the regulations of the township but also any conditions of approval and often it is Neighbors who uh let the township know neighb once or twice a month I get complaints about people living in rental houses and it's not hard to get in touch with the owner get the lease agreement to find out who's supposed to be in the house watch the house but this is all in in the context of deliberations for the board so well my thoughts on this application is that with the size of this lot being uh 2.6 times the U required minimum lot size this applicant could come in and uh easily subdivide this without any problems and instead he is the applicant is looking to uh help out his family and continue uh so that um proposing it as a with the family restriction it really does provide the social benefit and accessory dwelling units seem to be something that is a Hot Topic right now in the legislature and elsewhere with several towns adopting ordinances to that effect uh my hesitation would be are we usurping the planning board and creating a zoning uh issue as to what the requirements would be but in this situation with the lot size I think we can overcome that easily because it could easily be subdivided so I would be uh in favor of this uh application uh but I'm open to hear what everybody else has to say yes just want to remind the board that we denied a an Adu near shoppr right within the last year right and over an existing over the garage apartment doesn't anybody else remember this no no yeah it was a developer right the developer came before us wasn't it yeah but it was an already existing sh already existing apartment where their son had been living oh oh they wanted to expand that they wanted to expand it only a coup they wanted to expand that a whole I'm not I'm not saying that it's the same situation just be mindful that we had something that in some ways resembles this right but they and we denied right but they wanted to like I know they wanted to expand it and it was going to be commercial I I I understand I so there's no comparison right yeah it's apples and oranges I think I think so too not saying that it completely applies I just when you talk about usurping and and M we've also had you know I can remember the applicant that came before us with the Carriage House who wanted to put the playroom type of thing upstairs we said no Plumbing because we didn't want it to become an apartment situation right one they didn't come before us asking for the apartment situation so we didn't hear testimony to that effect here we've heard testimony we're on a lot that can easily subdivided into without the building taken down so again we are seeing these types of applications but our job is to judge it on the merits of each individual application so I don't think by judging this application favorably we'd be setting some type of negative precedent where we're building mini Apartments over garages throughout the township because we have to judge it again on the merits of the individual case just being devil's advocate here reminding us yep okay any other board members with comments if not I'll entertain a motion anybody motion to approve this application uh with stipulations uh already discuss okay have a second I'll second all right M Santiago Mr Goldberg yes Mr rman yes Mr Williams yes Mr Schuster yes yes Mr tractenberg yes Mr Kramer yes Mr Woodford yes so move thank you thank very much folks everybody we appreciate time always five minute break okay we're gonna take a five minute break and then continue okay we're Board of adjustment meeting is back in session miss Santiago roll call please yes Mr chairman Mr Goldberg yes here M rman yes Mr Williams here Mr Schuster here Mr trenburg here Mr Kramer here miss Simmons here Mr Woodford here Mr Warner here miss Lany here Mr Hansen here and Santiago here okay next application is ba- 2523 uh one Paul away LLC sanago yes Mr chairman this is pa- 2523 1 POA LC block 7003 lat 17 467 South Street in the O 40 Zone section D applicant proposes to reuse the exist existing building for animal daycare training and boarding applicant will also relocate existing sign creating a front yard setback of 20 ft where 150 ft is required and a sard setback of 75 ft where 175 ft is required yeah Council your appearance yes good evening Lord uh Jack spanell from the spella Law Group representing the applicant and who do you plan to have as Witnesses tonight my main witness will be Michael toia professional planner is that your only Witness uh if the board requires any additional testimony from my clients the applicants I also have my architect here all right if that's required okay and Mr chairman if I may with your permission yes I did review the notice found the content to be sufficient found it to be timely served certified mail on April 16 published on April 18 both at least 10 days prior to this evening so the board does have jur diic to here decide the application tonight okay you may proceed thank you very much uh the application is for a use variance and uh an application to move an existing sign um out of the right of way um the prior use was a veterinarian Surgical Center and the current use proposes a a Doggy Daycare Center approximately 30 dogs a day uh which are both dropped off and picked up uh at various locations uh the site will have uh dog runs and um there will be some overnight uh dog care um the applicant owns the property they purchased it in February the 2023 for $626,000 um there's going to be some Renovations uh it was a Dr Nelson was the previous veterinarian sure many of you may be familiar if you're if you're from this area um they're proposing to renovate the site uh for full siding replacement window replacement fence replacement with a six foot high vinyl fence Turf installation uh pool repair and a new pool cover resurfacing of the parking lot with additional gravel designation of an ADA parking stall Landscaping cleanup pruning as well as turf turf installation again the applicant further proposes to relocate the existing freestanding sign to a new location out of the public right away the existing sign that's been there for many years uh will be reused with a new sign panel measuring 44 in wide and 30 in high the cost of the improvements are estimated to be at $400,000 there not going to be any changes to the footprint of the structures um the size shape and location of the building are going to be the same and no changes to the size shape or location of the property are proposed and no shed is proposed okay call your first witness Mr Toby again as I'm swearing in Mr Toby I'll will also swear in our board professionals M Mr Hansen and Miss Laney do all three of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth they do yes thank you all hey Mr toia so Michael toia T o b i a the applicants planning consultant um office 92 Overlook Road Mars Town Mars Township um and uh Mr chairman you want qualifications or are we okay I think we can stipulate your qualifications unless there's any been any change since the last time you're here the only change is I have come to Love Dogs even more now than I did a month ago when I started on this case two months ago so okay and licens is now renewed you have to get your licenses renewed Liz and you know you did too okay yeah we just had to do that so okay um so I thought I'd walk you through the site with some photography um this is a PowerPoint prepared by me photos dated April 9th 16 sheets in the handout Mr Warner I gave this to Sonia as exhibit A1 keep on it y okay um as you heard 467 South Street is our site if you went out um the uh the driveway here at this building and went to South Street um made to left you're down about a half mile on the right hand side right across from L lanica reservation I've been going lanica for 34 years and there was a vets office over there I believe all that time and probably before that Dr Nelson and his wife were the Proprietors uh they lived on the property too I understand on the right side you'll see this all in a moment uh with uh dog activities throughout the building and on the property uh so um okay so good um slide two is an aerial photo a regional area photo that I thought I would give you running north to south through the exhibit is South Street with the center of Mars toown being at the top of the screen and proceeding South um uh down past the site I've circled the site uh to show you where it is an important takeaway of um this property overall is this is an isolated site in the context of area residences um across the street is laica reservation fantastic open space asset for all of us runs from here many miles Eastward toward chadam um above us is uh um Satan Hackney I think it's called right the The Stables I hike a lot I bike a lot I've never been on a horse but that's another nice open space parcel right across the street from us in about 1980 and proceeding through the 1980s um to the west of this site um was the Seagate the U um Southgate Parkway office complex four buildings in there some of the biggest buildings in town many of you might have gotten your covid shots in there at one of the Atlantic Health buildings um that's our neighbor to the rear it's an important neighbor because it's entirely commercial um and we have no residences therefore behind us in front of us or to the north of us as you look at this exhibit to the South um our single family development begins at least 600 feet from the property on a street called Blackberry Lane nearest house 600 feet away most of them 700 or more feet away we zoom in on the property here on slide two put a big square around the site this time to show you at at this zoomed level parking lot to the east of us uh at lean reservation and a ball field those are the two closest land uses on that side of the street and behind us is um 465 Southgate Parkway big office building right behind us and an Associated parking lot okay um the house um and property shown on slide uh four um two things happened here at least two things one a pre-war home built two stories um Gable Gambrell roof on the right hand side at some point a long addition was put on the on the property and added to the building Dr Nelson lived here um his family lived here they had a pool in the backyard um they also ran a Veterinarian Service a surgical center and a boarding use um an important takeaway of the case is our applicants you didn't introduce our applicants this Jamie this is Clay Partners in more than just business right did we just get married we did okay so that's not a special reason but they they not all my applicants have just gotten married but anyway the hardship Alo wait so the record reflect that was a joke hopefully that's our chairman so anyway they are our clients um they've been in business for 10 years now they have a facility in Randol one sakasa they have a drop shop over on Speedwell in Marist toown across from CVS um and as as Jack said before they're into the building for 600,000 626 on the purchase price we're going to go through what they're going to do with improvements in a moment what happened here historically appeals to them very much because it's two things one residential character and two a wellestablished uh facility for Doggy Daycare um and and dog boarding slide five uh over on the front side or the southernly side of the building has been and Will Remain the um entrance and reception area to the building slide six shows the original uh house um dog activities will be located throughout the house it will no longer be a residential property okay um so we're going to have dogs uh sleeping playing being groomed um and having daycare throughout the building I'll go through operations with you in a moment moment moving around to the right side or Northerly side of the house slide seven um the building um for all its a charm and appeal to many dog lovers over the years has become a bit neglected um sidings falling down they're broken windows um Jaime's dad has already done an extensive amount of landscaping improvements tree removal shrub removal and so on on the outside back of the house shows the pool this is slide eight in the lower right pool's been out of operation for so long we probably have six inches of grass growing on top of the pool cover okay never seen that before in the back though there's also a deck importantly and speaking to particular suitability the entire property in the back is fenced so we have a really secure area for dogs to be outside and entertain themselves um and each other and here is that backyard in in slide nine it's basically a 200 foot square property uh so we have a lot of room for dogs yard area well established in the back lawn area well established and um as we move to slide 10 um we have a parking lot this is on the south side of the building the applicant intends to uh top dress it with gravel and an ad a parking stall for the first time um and uh in general improve the whole property and I'm I think I need have a better slide to explain this to you dog runs have been located at the back of the building all these years they'll be improved um they will have now vinyl slats between each dog run so that dogs won't sit in opposing dog runs stare at each other and bark at each other they'll have privacy slots in other words everywhere you look on the property there was a six foot high stade fence everywhere you look that fence is falling down so the proposal is full replacement of that fence six foot high still vinyl that's a compliant height in the zoning ordinance that would be another Improvement to the property um the pool is going to go from a people pool to a doggy pool so whereas the Nelson family used it um as their personal pool we're going to fill it in up to probably a depth of 24 in what you say 2 24 inches um a waiting pool for dogs um and this will be scheduled um full use not a free-for-all from the hours of 10 to 2 PM um and importantly when we were at TCC um the TCC grp group notice the sign that exists on the site now shown in um slide 14 is actually in the public right of away um we have to move it 14 feet back that's the proposal to get it on the private property um the sign that you see here on slide 14 would be reused all we're doing is get we're putting a new panel up that will say one PA away with some copy as to phone number um and identification of the business that signed diagram should be in your file the panel will be identical to what's on the site now with Dr Nelson's old uh old sign and we'll go through variances in a minute but that will be I think the only physical change to the property in except for the improvements I'll go over again in a minute so let's go back um to slide four and just go through what Jack went through very quickly one of our special reasons Mr Warner will be a vast amount of site improvements both to the building and the lot that promote the public it um and they will include a reciting of the building um full window replacement door replacement everywhere you see a fence we'll have a new fence put up in the same location as the existing fence uh the pool will be repaired new po pool cover will be installed parking lot will be resurfaced gravel resurfacing um an ADA parking space will finally be uh identified on the site there's a lot of landscaping work that's been done more will be done uh to further clean up the site um the sign will be relocated um and importantly um there's no change to building no additions no changes to the parking lot footprint doesn't change coverage doesn't change in any way uh Jamie and Clay are putting about $400,000 of improvement into the property taking it north of a million dollars by the time you add purchase price to improvements um uh that that I just described okay so um operations we thought we'd give you a little bit on how the use will operate um and um we'll have hours basically extended business hours 7 to 6:30 pm Monday to Friday 8:00 am to 400 pm on weekends business will be open on Sundays so 8 to 4 on Saturday and Sunday um dog uh clients I should say the the owners of the dogs don't spend their whole day at the the building okay the way it's worked out is they will be permitted to drop off dogs between 7 and 8:00 a.m. in the morning um and pick up 4 to 6:30 in the afternoon um it'll be by appointments on weekends um interesting interestingly most dogs are picked up in the parking lot um employees will walk out with a dog drop them off in a car or meet some someone just pulling into the parking lot take the dog walk them back into the building uh this on average takes about two minutes per function whether it's a pickup or drop off um you can walk your dog into the reception area if you want I understand that's very um light in terms of volume compared to the parking lot pickup there'll be three full-time employees two part- timr two of the full-timers are right behind me here clay and Jamie um Clay's brother is the other full-timer and then there're two part-timers so when we distill down how everybody would arrive at the site um we're projecting uh a Peak parking demand for workers of three parking stalls the other 10 will be available to clients coming in picking up dropping off um a maximum of 30 dogs a day are anticipated um and deliveries um which basically come down to things like cleaning supplies trash bags paper towels um copy paper and so on are all going to be the same Amazon trucks that pull up to all their homes um clients have to bring their own dog food with them so our clients here aren't even providing dog food um for the dogs um one of the things that will set this use apart from everybody else in the Doggy Daycare business and and especially the boarding business is we will have a staffer in the building 247 a sleepover babysitter if you will dog sitter okay um most of the time it's going to be either clay or Jamie um sleeping the overnight shift most of the time what they're going to be doing is sleeping so on the second floor of the house the right side in slide four here uh far right front of this house will be a staff bedroom G to have a bed in it no closet it's going to have a bed there's a bathroom down the hall that they'll be able to use they'll be able to use a break room and the idea is to provide a level of service no one else is providing which is constant supervision of the dogs in case they might need an overnight Med they have an accident or there's an emergency but the way it was explained to me um by uh Jamie and Clay is most of the time the babysitter is going to be sleeping okay um but that's part of the business plan to have someone with the dogs all the time most of the other facilities have cameras monitoring the dogs overnight that's not the plan here it will be live uh supervision overnight um there's a break room with a refrigerator dishwasher microwave in the kitchen I'm explain pool hour to you um the dog runs will be uh limited and scheduled for particular dogs not everybody gets a dog run um there's no overnight use of the dog runs and although we have this great backyard fully fenced there's no overnight use of the backyard so by the time business closes at 6:30 p.m. all the dogs are inside for the evening unless they have to be walked to um uh do their business speaking of doing their business um the backyard will have a bunch of waste stations where um dog waste is collected will be transferred to two trash cans and a vendor will pick up that waste uh twice a week I got to tell you the vendor's name it's duty calls and Mr Warner it's D o d y Duty okay let's see what spell check says about that okay so but anyway that um that's basically the only waste for the whole use other than some light trash which our clients will be carrying out by themselves at the end of the day uh no wall signs proposed um and no we did have a talk at TCC about a being on the property that's no longer the case we will not have a shed incidentally on the site plan there's also um a proposed ground location for an AC unit we've determined that will no longer be necessary either so we're going to be dealing with through wall units or rooftop Mount units for our AC um condensers so no shed no ground mounted air conditioning unit um let's go um and talk variances for a second I want to go back to our aerial on a two um there are a few things that are easy to justify with this use one is a more intensive version of um this use existed for many years on the property because it included both vet services and surgery we know Dr Wilson did overnight boarding as well we've calculated through photography he probably had about 40 boarding cages in the building when he was an operation these folks are only talking 30 dogs Max overnight so we're not doing surgery we're not doing vet services and we're doing fewer boarding um dogs than Dr Nelson um did for many years um planners um and lawyers are guided in this field of the idea of longstanding uses on a site long-standing non-conforming uses the law through our Burbridge case supreme court stuff 1988 I want to say Mr Warner um says when a use has been around for a really long time people basically get used to it even if it's a non-permitted use okay that's the case here The Office Buildings behind us were built in the 1980s they've existed neighbors for four decades and more um the homes down on BlackBerry although they're really far away have also been driving by this building as a vet center and surgery center for decades we view what's happening here as less intensive than what existed in all those years and also um the particular suitability test is met because you have a park across the street Street Office Buildings behind us the only place with more dogs than one paw away is going to be lanica reservation right it's probably a Synergy there too between this shes and people then wanting to go and walk their dogs um so the particular suitability test is met um Liz did a master plan a bunch of years ago here 2017 believe it or not um seven years ago in that master plan in so many words on uh Pages 16 and uh 61 the document says the office Market is kaput okay it's struggling High vacancy rates especially in these secondary buildings that just have literally no demand for office use anymore so we've come up with a creative um appropriate reuse of the building that mimics what's been there for so long on the sign um we're in the o40 zone that's the zone that permits all those big Office Buildings behind us the intent of the Zone when you look back on it historically was to permit really big buildings on sites with a minimum lot size of 40 acres this piece is 34 of an acre in size so it never could do what the O for 40 Zone intended to be done um at the macro level a sign in the O 40 zone is supposed to be 150 feet off the street that would place it at the back of the backyard behind this building so it speaks to the Impractical nature of the sign rigs as applied to this site um if you looked at the side yard setback requirements for the sign um the sign is supposed to be 175 ft from the side property lines well the whole lot's only 200 feet wide so again it speaks to um an impractical application for this particular property of regulations that were supposed to be used for really big Office Buildings same can be said about the combined side yard requirements so we think what we're doing here is moving the sign to a legally compliant location still maintaining visibility I'm still using the same sign and recognizing that it would be a hardship and practical difficulty to achieve technical compliance with sign regulations to wrap up um I want to talk um and first of all Mr Warner you know for the recent state at goals a c g i and m of the municipal land use law are met a CG i m okay um the negative criteria says you can't Grant a variance unless it's a substantial without a substantial detriment or substantial impairment to the Zone plan here a substantial detriment would be that dogs bark and they drive people nuts if homes are too close okay the homes here are so far away the conclusion must be that there would not be a substantial detriment to any homeowner um The Zone plan test says this site should have been developed with a huge office building and yet what happened here historically is it became an orphaned lot it was never merged with the big buildings behind it there's an office building two doors down incidentally a Gastrology I think that's the right word um doctor's office that's the other the only other orphaned property in this whole complex of huge Office Buildings so we could never do what the ordinance wanted but we can do something that historically has been there for a long time without any apparent detriment um and overall for me big thing with all these cases I work on with over old buildings is huge um private sector investment an improvement in the property um so I think for those reasons this is a great land use dogs I believe Mr Warner are inherently beneficial um and we're doing a good thing here this is not only I was a joke this is not only um good for dogs it's great for families it's great for Community Building um and it's a really good land use for this particular site just for clarification though you're using the term inherently beneficial not as a uh a positive criteria automatic uh uh satisfaction in the planning sense but just in a more General sense correct I am saying we love dogs there you go right dogs are a good thing man's best friend thank but we have good proofs here on as to particular suitability okay okay board members any questions um if no board members just one question on the dog runs for the the new dog runs are they are they going to they going to be roofed or they going to just be open to the air or they're opened um they will have man doors leading to six individual indoor Suites so dog can be inside dog can be outside and um they'll be allowed to go out under a particular membership plan that allows them to have kind of the nicer Suites in the building no roof on those fenced areas right no roof no Ro okay thank you and then from the operations perspective it's almost sound like it was like curbside pickup and drop off so is that you know usually in these types of business you go in you transact you pay you pick up your dog you go out to your car with it so that's all to be sort of pre-arranged with people so automated automated and um kind of a meet and greet thing my clients estimate it takes two minutes to pick up and drop off which speaks to Great turnover in the parking lot I've got a question on the U the hand the Ada parking space that's going to be gravel also so I you know just like somebody coming out with a wheel how do you get across the gravel we um I think TCC talked about that also we you know if you want um we will investigate it if it has to be paved because gravel is a barrier right for some for some challenged people um we will PVE it right okay um I'm not sure I know if Liz or Dave knows the answer to that um we'll look into it and comply if needed yeah because I just think I don't I just think that you know that was an issue to me how do somebody that's handicapped get in the front door uh the sidewalk is paved sidewalk is paved sidewalk they still they still got to get across that 10et of gravel or whatever will be I think where the spot is proposed it's there's a there's a sidewalk that goes right to the front where the cars are right right to where that spot would be so it would be from the door to the door of the vehicle so that would be probably about four feet so here on slide 15 um that's pretty zoomed in um the U ad stall Mr chairman is um TR to write chairs in there right so that's my that's the spot um there is gravel between between it and the walkway but it's a very short uh amount of gravel um if you all want we we'll do it we I mean we have to I would just say it has to be compliant it has to be paid F by us are you saying be the applicant will agree to comply with a hard surface for the Ada stall connector to the sidewalk okay and with the operating model they may not even need to get out of their car or right right correct um I'm looking at the environmental commission's report um is there anything about uh outside lighting is that going to be Hand by another wi no no right now um the building has has an extensive array of lights and spotlights building mounted around the whole building every man door is lighted and there are spots on what would be the southeast corner of the building firing toward I don't know why my mouse isn't working firing toward the parking lot from this corner lower left on the exhibit okay um and the plan is to modernize saw those light fixtures if necessary to put another one on the southernly side of the building firing at the um parking lot uh the environmental commission recommends that any new lighting should be uh night sky compliant is that your proposal yes we were actually thinking of motion detector lights anyway which means they'd be off when you didn't have activity in the line but we would accept that as a condition Mr just for clarification on that is the applicant also stipulating to providing a lighting PL to the to our board engineer or if our board engineer feels that same as necessary yeah which it appears he does and the answer is yes thank you never heard of no one um they also mentioned about standing water on the property property how is is there what is the situation they might have seen it on St okay you gotta just excuse me yep not a problem Oh time okay now I don't know whether the environmental commission just came out on a wet day or not they said there's standing water issues uh do we have any idea how they're going to be addressed especially have dog runs and in P the property worry about that too we can we can work with Mr Hansen on that there are small spots that pond uh they might very well have been because dogs dug holes right um there's also the apron of the driveway at the intersection with South Street that clearly needs to be filled in we have a little Gully there that is ponding also we can go through anything on the site with Mr Hansen be glad to do that all right great and you said there's been some Landscaping have trees been removed already just the one dead tree that we I'm sorry we haven't sworn her in yet we could I'd love to see her testify because I think she'd be really but there there was a dead tree a huge dead tree at the back of the property um the back of the building that has been removed the other work that's been done is mostly pruning lawn mowing anything else just leing leave raking okay is there any Landscaping plan that's going to be put into effect uh around near the building in front of the building um no right now we're just trying to remove things rather than add plant material there's some nice trees on the perimeter of this property couple nice ones in the backyard um they might be doing some Foundation plantings but nothing formal at this time thank you just a good question is there any um interaction with the the Board of Health here in the township do they get involved with these kind of facilities at all in any aspect or so um they say they haven't with their other facility Mr Warner if you wanted a condition that said we have to check with Health Department to make sure we're okay we'd be happy to comply with that I mean there's the all other applicable outside agencies provision in any resolution but uh the stipulation is specific notification by the applicant of the Board of Health and then on the plans that was talking about the white vinyl fence is that only on the re of the property back rear sides and return so um hey let me on a second so sorry that fence this is why I love this property for the use it goes all the way across the back property line comes around the Northerly property line um at the front of the building Mr Goldberg it returns to the front corner of the building full containment does the same thing over on the the South Side comes down the southernly property line comes across the three parking stalls at the back of the parking lot and returns to the building Corner okay thank you got it and item three on the uh TCC uh says the TCC advised the applicant to indicate compliance with state electric vehicle charging requirements is that even so we did that it does not apply to parking lots uh of 25 or fewer stalls we were at 13 stalls and is there any um utility issues as far as water the premises you mean sufficient water for the what I assume I mean people lived here for years I assume we have full utilities on the property by the way that that place existed when we moved here in 1964 so our our dog is stay is that right I mean the environmental commission report says 45 years in that report you're going back even further than that right well yeah I was 14 just older in terms of any additional signage just want there there's the one sign I mean occasionally with commercial businesses I think we've seen this on hand over all of a sudden you'll have you know things planted in the ground with wavy flags on them and colors you know trying to draw attention to the commercial establishment would we to like there'll be no additional sort of other colorful signage or anything okay this the proposed sign's really in a great location on a nice busy street you know they're going to do a lot with with that I hope they're going to add some paint it we know we're going to do plant material in the bed underneath the supports uh that's all they need so we'll step to that sure there's not is there going to be any lighting at the sign I see that any like downward lighting dire no lighting okay and although we can't sort of enforce it I would ask that you sort of check in with the environmental commission we do have an invasive species uh listing of things to just not to plant anything that's invasive so to speak the environmentals make sure did you hear that you'll stipulate that it do not plant list that's in the environmental commission's report yes are you are you removing any trees just what we did which was a wreck of a tree anything else you think's coming down it how many trees were removed one dead tree at the back of the building was removed um and nothing else is coming down so presumably it wouldn't require replacement but regardless you'll you'll comply with rep right I'm sorry dead trees right right we're assuming it's a dead tree unless you you've assessed it already so you'll comply with the tree removal and replacement ordinance to the extent any replacement is necessaries yes okay I.E the one tree if it's it wasn't dead there's a Monti python reference but I won't do it but I appreciate admire those who chuckle too okay board members any other questions of this witness Oh I thought you gonna say something else any other questions of this witness Mr water well actually I just have a couple questions sure um could you uh just ident identify what Maple's Lounge is it's on the site plan so that is the REM remaining stump of the tree we took down okay that tree probably had a caliber of five feet and but it was built right I mean it was right up against the house and that's the one that was in danger falling on the house so we needed to dignify the sub right Mak it a a monument for the property okay so it's not an accessory structure okay not subject to setback controls and then actually just have an operation issue because you you're offering grooming right and does the grooming dog count does is it is 30 dogs include anybody who might be coming for grooming or is there like grooming customers who might come in addition it's just for the dogs coming so it's just for the dogs doing daycare and boarding okay okay moreover um we're not even doing retail sales on the property so you can't come here and buy like dog leashes it's not a retail store um so the grooming is accessory to the boarding and daycare uses that's the best way to put it okay um right because that that's my those are my only two questions okay thank Mr Hansen any questions no I don't have any questions trash pickup duty calls the dog waste and for our clients it's going to be basically carry in carry out because it's it's probably going to be a little or 11 gallon 11 gallon trash bag every few days with like lunch uh leftovers and things like that okay okay and recycle from all the Amazon boxes that's all going out with the clients okay all go out just want make sure we had everything in the TCC report covered otherwise it's a separate property survey was submitted yes plans were modified Ada stall Etc we got the EV seees number three number four uh no other proposed accessory structures uh the uh treu does not count uh five air conditioning unit yeah I guess you addressed that it's not going to be locate the existing sign right keymap everything else was done seven eight nine 10 so what we did just so you know Mr Warner was um the plan shown on slide of U 15 was specifically revised to meet that TCC report oh so that whole punch list you just rattled off is is all in there um and that's page 15 on exhibit 81 yes okay uh oh okay I okay got it thank and uh no other we cover thec just for a clarification when they came to TCC they had shed in the backyard and the revised plan that was submitted the February 27th date on it does not have the shed on right sheds good I was looking for it um now nothing forther thank you Mr okay any more questions board members any members of the public with any question to this witness please come up to the uh microphone keep your name address spell your last name and ask your question is it on day okay U my name is Joanne Martin I'm a cardiologist at 457 South Street right next to you and I I just have concerns about the noise level going to have 30 dogs I'm a cardiologist I have to listen very carefully to patients and I'm I'm just very concerned about the um dog runs the dogs outside that's my only concern so um what we would tell you first of all is uh the speakers on the north side of our building by probably 3 to 400 feet uh her Dr her building is on the far side of the driveway for 465 South Street um the north side of the building here will be the least active in terms of dog activities the dog runs are all the way on the far side of the building South Side um and remember a couple of the things I shared with you um there going to be no activities at night outside well that's that's kind of irrelevant because it's the daytime that we're seeing patients um and then you know the other thing first of all dogs bark okay we all know that what we learned um in the business is when they're together they tend to bark less because they're not isolated um so what Jamie and clay have shared is when you have dogs outside playing in the yard they're usually more active with each other and consequently not barking the other thing that happens here which I didn't mention is our two clients um basically screen and interview all prospective dogs before they come to the building troublemakers don't make the cut right aggressive dogs don't make the cut the interviewing process is about four hours long okay to make sure you got to fit with uh for instance some of the dogs are going in the small dog room some of the large dogs go in a separate room they have separate sleep areas and so on so there's a lot of screening here that's done um the other thing I would tell you is this town like a lot of towns has what we call Performance standards which say things like you can't have too much smoke you can't have vibration you can't have noise up to certain levels um noise is runs with land it's not something that can be reviewed once and then forgotten about you had a problem a year from there you can still file a complaint with Mr Hansen but I think you two as clients and applicants are going to try and do the best possible to keep noise to a minimum I I suppose time will tell I suppose time will tell but that that's my main concern is the is the uh noise Factor it's not gonna no not with no I mean seriously did Dr Nelson have any did he have any problems with his operation I don't think he had big dog runs going on I know Dr Nelson pretty well and um uh did Madam I'm gonna with the chair's permission I'm gonna swear you in so what you're saying will count as testimony if I may M sure please raise your right hand you swear to God our affirm testimony you're about to give us a truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you for saying yes and please say it again now I think that we have heard his dogs occasionally that was never a big issue but I I was never under the impression that he had like a big Center so here at slide 11 um in our in our exhibit A1 the the Dr Nelson had dog runts they they're kind of falling down in the photo let me see if I can give you a little more zoom on this um this side which again is this far away from your from your building as possible had runs this on the south west side of the building he had runs and um I don't know I mean maybe you heard them a little bit maybe you're going to hear this one a little bit standard before the board is substantial detriment and what we're trying to say is you're not going to hear this all the time most of the activities are going to be within the building I wondering if you had a time that you would be doing the runs um the dos outoors um yeah that'll run basically until 6:30 p.m. scheduled so you know dogs will go out and and come back it will be during business hours yes okay if I may ask a question Mr chairman that might be real how many dogs maximum would be out in the dog in the dog runs at any given time six RS six runs does six runs mean one dog per run six dogs maximum at any given time yes okay but that's not counting the pool area so if you have six dogs in runs will you also have let's say another six dogs playing in the pool like so the pool is scheduled okay you're not goingon to get 20 dogs in there at a time I didn't want to get into too much of this but there membership plans involved with the use like AB C Level plans and um the dogs with plans that permit full usage be allowed there that's from 10 to 2 only 10: a.m 2 p.m um and it's scheduled but what would the maximum number of dogs at any time in the pool backyard area minus the runs B the answer would be 10 approximately 10 minus the runs so 16 dogs outside if you count the runs right I'm sorry right so you know what this might be self-evident but that's a maximum number like not all the dogs are going to be in the runs at the same time they're not all going to be in the pool at the same time the um if I may Mr chairman sure the the um we could put it as a condition of approval but it's the law so it's required implicitly anyway the applicant recognizes you're subject to nj7 call 29 the noise regul or uh State noise regulations as well as our local ordinances which uh as I understand it comport with those state regulations and therefore have been approved by uh the uh State Department of Environmental Protection d uh so it's 50 65 DBA daytime 50 dbaa nighttime at the property lines if I recall correctly you got it uh the um they have to be quieter at night the dogs but I know that doesn't necessarily speak to your issue it's the daytime that you want them the quietest perhaps but uh but but there is a state regulation and we have an ordinance that comports with that regulation and it uh uh can be um they have to abide by it and if they're found out to abide by it then there's special uh Machinery that I'm not qualified to utilize uh I don't know I I don't I think we have someone who is qualified the township and we do have someone who does that who's qualified here certified here yeah would be the type of thing that the complaint was was her um they make a point of coming out setting up their meter to check so yeah enforcement like anything in life is not perfect it's difficult but there are mechanisms that you can Avail yourself of as a neighbor to uh ensure that they're complying with all the conditions of approval if there is one including state law and U I might add Mr Warner section 9547 of the town code says what you just said about the state code yeah I didn't memorize that one I was showing off enough with seven calling 29 right I was pretty impressed that that that's the citation locally even I have some limits but I just have another question on the outdoor before we go back any other members of the public with any questions okay um is it correct to assume the pool does not require any sort of fencing around it well no it does and it all pools do and in this case 24 in they still have only our fence is six feet high around the pool area only yes no well it's around the entire backyard at six feet okay so there's no need for a secondary fence around the pool and when the is there any sort of service being offered so you have the dog runs you have the pool time often times facilities such as this will offer outdoor you know free rain play time whatever are there going to be other dogs that are going to be allowed to run and sort of a play area play time out at the same you out in the main yard in the rear yes the backyard area not the dog runs not the dog will be open to all the dogs um and you may have just heard the pool is um like regular Cru Memorial Day to Labor Day so to the testimony earlier during the day business hours I guess there's some sort of throttling or regulating to the testimony of maybe a maximum of 16 dogs outside at one point there won't be some sort of you know open Play Time where all 25 dogs are outside and just having a half hour of plate time we're hearing a maximum of 10 for okay thank you okay any other board members with questions any okay next witness or what do we think is any board members have questions about the plans the interior plants and aside from there's only one little room for cats no just question are we deliberating yet or no we're still no no we're just applicant still putting on their K so I'm just wondering whether council is sort of wondering whether he's goingon to put another witness on I just wanted to know if any board member take questions to the architect because he's here if they have questions they can we can ask him to be brought any questions okay does any member of the public want to hear from the architect has any specifics about the building okay seeing hearing none it's your decision yes we're we're going to close our case at this point okay yeah any members have any public comment on this application now other words you want to testify I know we before you in Dr before do you want have anything further you want to add okay we proceed any any summation so as Mr Toby concisely testified this application uh meets the standard for the use variance and under the circumstances he is testified to all of the criteria necessary for the variances to be granted and we therefore ask the board to Grant the variances thank you very much okay board members any discussion uh I know from my own experience that this Veterinary service was up and running when I moved here as a teenager in 1964 um and uh there's no doubt that uh all of my friends current friends who have dogs whenever they are going away it's always a scramble to find a place to place the dog uh so it's pretty obvious at least to me that it's something that's necessary um and beneficial to the public it's also an ideal location as far as noise is concerned it's not going to interfere with um res uh residences the concern of Dr uh Dr Martin is um well noted and uh there's state regulations and local ordinances uh to enforce compliance but uh otherwise this property will never be used uh it's just going to sit there it's quite unsuitable to be a residence uh no one's going to uh move next to all those Office Buildings and be separated from any type of a neighborhood so I would be in favor of granting this application but I welcome comments from other board members so comment on the noise I think you're opposite of ball field okay this is not going to be the noisiest thing and the trucks that pull out a seat and hack me you know with the trailers and stuff they can be and that's I don't know that that's heavily controlled true I spent a lot of time in that area that gets noisy right we ride our bikes there to Mr Toby's point we're we're down to that Park pretty often it's four miles all the way to the post office right any other board members with comments um I would go back to the the barking because we have a dog in our neighborhood that is outside barking all the time it's super annoying and but it doesn't meet the standard loudness that it's an enforceable action there is a so there is a parking okay we're getting some info here okay so that's good to know because now if the doctor has an issue and it doesn't meet the loudness of the decel level there's some other alternative for her to seek recourse should it be in great that makes me a lot more comfortable okay any other comment from board members if not I'll entertain motion permission I can summarize the uh the relief and the conditions if it helps in the mo motion making yes please do it says I understand that the applicant is seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval and D1 use variants approval to convert an existing veterinarian office well not no longer existing might have been abandoned but previously existing veterinarian office to an animal daycare uh uh grooming and boarding uh uh facility along with bulk variances for the front yard setback uh for the sign not being 150 feet set back uh from the front property line the sidey setbacks from the sign not being 175 ft setback uh from either side property line uh and uh the combined sidey yard setback not being at least 350 feet for the sign I have uh the applicants numbers and uh uh and the uh TCC numbers didn't exactly coincide should I take that back the applicants no notice numbers on the notice did not exactly coincide with the uh numbers on the the setbacks on the plan which one am I going with none of them are clo anywhere close obviously to 150 175 and 350 but am I going with the plan or am I going with the notes so let me let me get out the TCC report my apologies Mr chairman for not getting the clarification on thator I I can tell you the numbers in the notice were based on my scale Dimensions from the plan I'll go with the notice and not the uh plan let's just see what the discrepancy is where where do you see that Mr Warner in the TCC report um uh the zoning table on the plan had some setbacks oh you said the TCC report no strike that the uh the the zoning table and the notice didn't match up I don't believe and are we talking for the sign you're saying right the sign I think all that was put on the plan on the site plan were the existing non-conformities of the building itself so they would not apply to the sign and sign says sign setback from right away sign setback from side yard on the signed codee table on the plan maybe I'm looking at the wrong table hold on a second please I'm going see uh we might have to stop kind of like that ringtone um it's on A- zero yeah February 27 2024 architecturals and where so that's up on the on the monitor can you tell me what you're looking at please that what he has yeah you're not look yeah it's uh treat A- Zer sheet a z it's a zero February 27 2024 mvg designs that's what that is so um let me just say and let me repeat um oh there is left side yeah oh right by park that's the it's right no no look at go in the bottom left bottom left corner of what's up on the screen don't move the screen go to the bottom left corner is that that what that just table of contents so let me repeat I um when we did the notice um I scaled all those Dimensions it's simple if you're going with the notice I'll go with the notice let's go with the notice please and it was three items right front yard side yard single and combined side yard side yard so those are the those are the deviations again preliminary and final major site plan D1 use variants in the three bul front yard setbacks side yard setback and combined side guard setback all with respect to the sign uh and uh if the app again it requires at least five of the seven board members for passage and if it is a motion of Grant I'll assume it's with all the stick at two conditions including those set forth in the TCC report the environmental commission report uh as well as the following that I noted which are uh a lighting plan and night sky compliant lighting subject to the approval of our board engineer standing order to be resolved uh subject to the approval of our engineer uh notify the Board of Health specifically uh tree removal and replacement subject to the review and approval of our board engineer uh the Ada space will be compliant uh by way of Paving or use of pavers it'll be a hard surface uh no additional signage including uh any no temporary signage uh no sign lighting and that is all I had for additional conditions okay and if that's it I'll assume that's the the motion to Grant with all those conditions if it's a motion to Grant board members do I have a motion motion to Grant you have a second second thank you Santiago Mr goldber yes M rman yes Mr Williams yes Mr Schuster yes Mr B Mr track Dumber yes Mr Kramer yes and Mr wood yes so Mr chairman I'm holding bu I'm holding on to their building plans because it came in requiring the use VAR and I submit the building plans so they get a jump on the building permit review so that sure after the next reading of resolution they can pick up your building permits sure yeah sure go for it thank you very much good luck appreciate it thank you reget it okay any other matters for the board no other matters motion to adjourn got to say it out loud I move the adjourn second all in favor I