like to call the order the uh special meeting of the mor to board of adjustment for June 10th um 2024 statement of adate notice the requirements the state for notice satisfy the statement certifying St the executed please join me in the to of the United States of America to the for stands indivis andice for Mr Goldberg here Mr TR here Mr Williams yeah M Simmons here Mr benois here Mr Kramer here Mr here here Mr SL here okay counselor where are we now and what are we doing tonight okay uh yes Mr chairman again for the record David Brady of Brady and Corel on behalf of the applicant uh we started back in December with the application uh we continued the application in the end of March and between December and March we made some plan made some revisions to the plans that reduce the number of variances and the extent of the variances and to start off tonight what I want to let the board know is that we've made a decision to further revise the plans by eliminating the office addition on the right hand side of the uh the building um Kathy Mueller who's our engineer had a conflict tonight she's testifying elsewhere she did send however a letter that has the recalculation of what that means for the variances uh I I'll mark that as A9 if that's okay with Mr check the number yep 99 um with that revision then keep the existing office or that yeah the existing wall side wall of the house will remain where it is okay that little narrow right uh room will will continue ex exactly exctly know if I have enough for everybody thank so with that then we are down to three three bulk Varian is all basically relating to side yards we have an existing garage first of all the the sidey requirement is 20t we have an existing garage at 17.78 FT from the property line we're expanding that slightly and we're going to be 14t from the proper the Garage pool house sorry Dave but I'm not seeing that on your list right no it's not these are the numbers that get are revised only okay so this is not a list of all the variants it's only the revised numbers okay okay um The Carriage pool house uh we had originally proposed to be 5 feet off the property line we revise that the 14.25 the combined side yard that is required is 50 feet we had originally propos had a proposal that was at 13 feet we had revised that 23 feet and per Ms Mueller's um letter we're now at 2944 uh what was exting prior to any [Applause] application 33.2 uh we do not have any longer variances or we don't have any variances that we're asking for for impervious coverage or for building coverage I noted during uh the announcement of the agenda that there was an announcement that we had a height variance we in fact do not it is not on our list uh there are two different ways to measure height and Miss Mueller had consulted with Mr Hansen I believe over that we do not have a height variance although that was part what was read to the agenda the agenda also indicated we had a fence variance for height that was before we revised the walls along the leftand property line and decided to go with um offence that you see soon that because it is um I think less 25% solid does not get counted towards the height but we we'll go through that with Mr toia in more detail um so with that kind of setting the background I believe that um we were we had Mr Dorne testify I don't think Mr ersen had a chance to cross-examine him so we need to finish that then have Celia de Huff or our landscape architect um come up and testify and Mr toia has some exhibits that will put up on the screen showing the Landscaping plan and lastly Mr to will testify okay so can before we do all that let's just go over the variances again so I have them all in one place so you have sidey yards for what you're calling a carriage house pool house right and that's 14.25 feet where 20 feet is required correct um your addition B is a boy for the garage right is that at 14 feet where 20t is required correct right your addition D for the office is now omitted right that goes back to the existing 15 um yes okay um she has a minimum sidey yard for okay that's your combined sidey yards are now different because you've eliminated the office so that's going to 29.4 correct three okay uh there's no height variance and Jim or you know his office will have to confirm that okay we did not apply for one and I I call that exercise occurred between Miss meller and Mr Hansen okay so it's but the what I'm looking at says and what I'm looking at is your last revision plan of 3424 right right so that has shows a height of 40.5 feet is is that the height yes y there's a maximum height from the average building grade and a maximum height from the minimum building grade and 40.5 is that second calculation and both of those calculations are below the maximum height maximum height under the first calculation the average is 35 fet and we're at 336 the maximum height under that second minimum grade calculation is 46.6 and we're at 405 Jim have you had a chance to confirm that yet I'm just reading the uh ordinance right now on the on building all right so we're going to leave that kind of open for right now okay you'll see the two calculations on the right hand side of uh the variance [Applause] plan okay so we'll have to confirm that but all right and there's no wall height variance anymore because you stepped the fence away from the wall we separated the walls and we also put a fence on top of the second wall which will be uh you know almost completely Ser wires sideways and so building coverage is now uh less than the 20% right she's at 19.94% which was the limit now we're below it and impervious we are below the 45% right at 42 okay 422 42.1 right if we get to a conclusion tonight and if there's approval there would be a condition that there'd have to be signed plans confirming all these numbers subject to the engineering department review sure right okay um I got them thanks Mr ERS yeah Mr chairman um I'd like to be heard on the plan changes I'd like to inquire were these plans submitted to the board in advance of this hearing the change in the plans I do not the changes were not submitted in advance that the change is a simply a deletion of something it's not an addition of something not a vision of a shape of something it's a simple deletion of something everything is already on the plan board can certainly as the chairman asked questions see where the existing side of the house ends and that's where it's going to stay let me let me be clear I I have complete trust in Mr Brady and respect Mr Brady but here's the thing the board is entitled to see these plans and evaluate them in advance we're entitled to see them and evaluate them in advance what I've heard tonight is that the engineer has changed a bunch of calculations there's a letter submitted to the town I don't get to cross-examine the engineer that's just gone away the engineer is now going to speak through Mr Brady and give you new calculations that we're supposed to somehow react to on the Fly these are not minor changes I think I just heard that the pool housee is moving from 5et off the property line to 14 ft off the property line actually that was the last revision that was the only change correct me if this is wrong Mr Brady but the only change is the elimination of addition D which is the office exactly uh I got another I got another question where is the um AC units in the generator going to be located right now they'd be inside the house they going to stay where they were no they can't stay they they stay where they are stay where they currently are now and where's that [Music] on yes well he was he test I know I know right now we're just having information so at the right rear corner of the building behind the so there approximately add is there a generator today Mr Brady no no all right so is the generator being removed from the plan then yes because we're not moving that portion of the build that's going to stay where it is we'll have to fit uh you know the AC and the generator AC is already behind kind of where that said proposed Edition well if you look at the plan where it says proposed one story office Edition I think towards the rear of that there's a box there's a lot of lot of information going on right there but you know that might be the exact location of the air conditioner currently right above where the P propos yeah that's that box right but that's that's Mr understand that if you're if you're not putting the generator in on this application you're putting it in somewhere else along there that would be in the sidey yard and we'd have to come back we have to come back for a generator right or we'll put it someplace where it we'll figure or we'll figure it out one or the other right we recognize that so we'll either locate it where doesn't need a variance or we'll come back and ask for that variance when we get to that point okay so Mr ersen raises a valid point about the 10day rule for for plans um but it's it's really the board's call but I I think that with just the elimination of the addition um and the condition should the board act on this favorably tonight uh that the calculations in the zone chart be confirmed by the Township engineering office um I think that would be sufficient there's really no substantial changes to the plans it's just the elimination of that office addition right exactly we changing it relocating it doing something else unless unless the board felt like they needed those plans in advance of the meeting members have any feedback on this if I know there discussions about locating the uh generator um that would uh impact the neighbors also as to exactly where it was going to be because it would be within the side guard maybe not necessarily we'll have to look at that what I'm say but for purposes of of your application you're omitting the generator entirely right so that's gone Mr there s anything else on that point no Mr listen I don't want to I don't want to slow anything down but it it does bother me that that's not competent evidence that's going before the board it's going to be checked afterwards by your engineer who can't possibly check it on the Fly and all of that is going to be done outside the purview of the board outside view of the that's not right I think the M the simple math of we're not going to have the addition on that side anymore I'm sure Mr Slate can do that quote unquote on the Fly the uh calculation is to impervious coverages and the like we were compliant before we're just more compliant now yeah the only the only thing that changes is the combined sidey yard numbers and I'm sure like I said that's simple addition and subtraction I'm sure Mr slay can verify that number are there larger AC units going in you now no sir so I do think the board has a discretion to either require that under the 10day rule or deem that explanation acceptable much happier this come in earlier especially because you go through everything you line it up and set with your questions and what you're going to focus on and now you're gonna you know the uh a lot of the plans lot uh now look different and we've got to like on the Fly recalculate everything that's that's my concern and I mean we've got this this sheet have you got that yet I did not and got an extra one and I can hand one out as I said Mr sh it's simple deletion I understand that but the the public has a right to have seen all this before they come in here I mean they I understand like we're g that certain things do change right um you come and certainly come in with exhibits that don't have to be filed 10 days in advance I think when you have a delete of a box on a plan and you represent that everything on that side of the house is otherwise as is staying as is I don't think that's a revision that requires everybody a long time to digest what is your i i as as I said I think it's the board's discre if they want to impose uh enforce rather the 10day rule or or if you think what we've just heard is sufficient and you can understand that plan without having it revised in front of you and we we could have offered that during the hearing on quote unquote on the Fly it's as I say a simple a simple thing um board members any other board members with opinions on this Mr chairman I have a question yes regardless of what we think about that would they still be able to have a testimony of other Witnesses or would that I'm wondering whether testimony of other Witnesses would complicate the issue we're talking about now or whether it would be two so one of the witnesses we haven't heard from yet is the professional planner right and this is one of the variances that the planner is going to testify to so he's either he needs to testify to the plan like what is the plan right is he here he's here tonight excuse me yeah he's here yeah okay right but how about other Witnesses um this I can really see both sides and and I want to congratulate the public for being here and speaking up because it was because of your voices that the applicant has decided to make these changes so it's already it's already been um I'm I'm not sure success is the right word but you've already greatly influenced people who are concerned about the development neighbors you've already your voices have been heard um makes our job a lot easier um but there is this issue and and I'm I'm a little concerned that that the loose end might be greater than we think even though overall it seems to have it seems to have um made the plan a lot more powerful so I'm not really sure would I feel comfortable with the program has changed I think so we've had other applications that we had some changes and we're okay with it so but if differ so I just don't know what loose ends are going to come across that we haven't identified no discussion right now any other board members want to lay in on this maybe I'm over worried I know concern of mine also but I think we have had many applications with password plans have been modified things have been deleted uh or omitted and uh radically change the plans as proposed so I think we could go on with this counc do you need a couple of minutes would you like to review the letter the this letter before we get going you can take five minutes from I I could review for the rest of the night I have no one to question about it right right the engineer is gonna have to come back and I guess and testify because this is not I don't need to review it because the more prepared I get the more I want to ask questions I have to point out Mr chairman it's a deletion the only change to any variance involved is is a variance kind of on the opposite side of the property for Mr ur's client and secondly as I say it's math we're going to keep that same it's not the other things uh while miss Mueller may have indicated what the building coverage is and the impervious coverage is we're already compliant before the change the change doesn't and we remain compliant as I said this is something we could easily have started here tonight heard feedback from the board and said you know what we'll delete that okay with nothing in advance right I'm inclined to go forward tonight that's true can I just ask a question just point of order um in terms of how the meeting is structured I don't know Mr um Brady's explaining this we um heard from I'm sorry what was your name Mr John Mr Mr ersen would it be inappropriate or is this would it be out of order to I'd be interested to hear from members of the public that are here maybe give them a minute or two to see how they feel about this in terms of you know because because the deletion may please some is there is that inappropriate or I I don't I think that would open up a can World a board question really it's a matter of you know do you think the elimination of of this side addition impacts this plan where you want to see the plan 10 days in advance to have time to review it and see if the engineering firm you know or Jim's office you know has uh has a report that raises some questions for you you know I do have a little question on the height issue um but it's never been shown as a variance right I only raised that because during the uh agenda reading it was mentioned and I wanted to make it clear we never asked from one and put a plan we don't believe orig um I can I ask a clarification on that because original denial letter from September 27th and the denial of permit I wanted to get back to the height because it does ask for a variance if I'm reading this correctly where it says and that's what I wanted to ask how we got to the new height and just to recap that so on the original denial I don't know if it was the original but back in September of 23 it said um the engineering plan indicates the proposed height of the overall house using the average grades around the house to be 39.2 six mostly due to the property dropping down from the house towards the pool area variance is required for this excessive height above 35 ft so there was a variance being sought for this at some at that point there was that was from Mr Hansen as I recall correct and after that and before we had our December hearing there was communication between m m Mr Hansen and we did not apply for a variance when we submitted because of that there was a verification of the number got trying to remember what the difference of uh difference different of calculation but I know that they had a communication about that that's why we never applied for it I don't I really don't want to be obstruction this but you can't testify about what the engineer talked about the zoning I I understand that arum but there's really no plan change before us with respect to height right it's just I don't know why it said that on the agenda but I didn't want any misunderstanding we have not applied for a height variance we do not need a he height variance we went through that during the testimony of M Mueller Mr ERS had a chance to cross-examine miss meller somehow it set that on the agenda I assume maybe taking out some old old document somewhere or something Carri forward thank you yeah change I'm to go forward tonight does anybody have any problems with that I do not Mr chair thank I don't either Mr chair but I do just want to confirm what is the current proposed Building height the information that the current proposed Building height on the um variance plan that has revision dated 3424 right as I if you look on the top right is Building height detail and then below that it shows those two calculations that I spoke about depending on the calculation there's a different maximum height and under either calculation um we comply okay okay got it thank you all right so your average height of 33.6 feet is the compliance right right right okay okay all right so I think if we're going forward then Mr T I think the first order business Mr did not cram thank you Mr chairman for the record johners and shank price again um Mr Dorne uh in your testimonies previous hearing you spent quite a bit of time in your testimony talking about uh when you have a new client how you start to form a program could you could you tell the board about what inputs you get when you start a program for designing a new house or addition is the mic on is this on okay so the program is uh what people are looking to have in their house or their addition or their renovation so um I'm sorry oh okay so typically anybody will come in they'll say typically I want a three-car garage you know I want a family room that's 24 by 24 uh the master bedroom I want a little sitting area seating in the area in it I'd like to have you know four four bedrooms that are on Suite um you know playroom in the in the basement things like that and then from from what the uh potential client tells you that's how you begin to build a plan for the house that's correct yep and so in this case what did Mr Ying tell you that he would like in his program uh we talked about the the problem with the garage what problem with the garage that's too narrow and there's no there's no entry from the garage to the house there so there's no mud room um he has an outside currently has an outside uh stair well to the basement that I said well you know what if if in the in the addition that we designed we can incorporate that and close that up so that there's no drainage into it there's no rain that's going into it and you know you have a nice warm uh house to circulate in anything else uh yeah he told me he would like to have four bedrooms on Suite he did tell me that he'd like me to look into uh you know doing something with the Side Edition some kind of an office um and a formal dining room that we kind of changed the the space of it we talked about how where he grew up um there was a house that he visited that had an octagon room that he really liked and if we could incorporate that that would be important also talked about having an outside Terrace uh for entertaining and um I think that's probably more but that that covers most of it I would think and when uh he told you uh that those were his interests did he talk to you about uh whether or not uh he had already purchased this house in the AIS condition yeah I think that was pretty obvious that he had already bought it yeah and so he bought it in the condition it was and then he came to you with this list of seven or so wants yes and in his application he indicates that the justification for this application is that the house is laid out in an awkward fashion did he tell you that it it is no did he tell you that I'm not sure whether he did but I probably told him if it was and in the application he indicates that the rooms of the house are less than adequate size they are wouldn't that be a good reason not to buy the house or buy a different house not necessarily so uh not necessarily how well because he if somebody likes a neighborhood they like the feel of it they they get to know it they look around and they find out where they'd be comfortable and uh I think that's what he did and did you speak to him about the process of applying to expand the size of the house greatly we talked about the fact that if he needed that there was a possibility that he would need a variance so in your designing of the program you didn't know that a variance was needed you said maybe there' be a possibility of a variance I I always use those words because I don't know until I actually study the site and do and do a study of my own to be able to establish if they're is or is not need Mr D I'm not trying to trick you I'm asking you I'll ask it a different way would it make make a difference to you if the applicant came to you with a house that was already violating side yards or a house that was conforming would that make a difference in you developing your program of wants no that's what I thought so in your program of wants and your design of this very large addition you didn't consider the current encroachments to the township zoning org well once I I I started to design I saw that there would be possibility I mean there are so many houses these days that almost every one how about you just testify about this house okay and I'm asking you specifically when you were designing this house you did not take into consideration the fact that before you started your program of wants it was already encroaching and violating the township zoning orance I you did not take that into consideration that's what you just said wait I did not consider I go over that again because I you say when you designed the house the addition to the house did you know at the time you designed it that it was already encroaching into the township zoning ordinance of the yes and you designed it this large anyway well you say large but it it's it's performing as far as lot coverage and building let's focus on the sidey setbacks you designed a a very large you can't deny that addition that you designed to be five feet off the sidey guard setback that was your design and the original proposal before this board that's correct yeah what I'm what I'm pointing out is that when you designed this you did not take into account the fact that this house was already in violation of the sidey setback and your proposal based upon the wants was to encroach in that sidey setback further as an architect it's a yes or no question no it's not not to me as as an architect we have to I design the way I think it should be I know that I understand that and you ignore the zoning let he's not going to answer the question well then you can repeat the question again but let him go on for a little bit then maybe it'll help you reframe your question so you hit them down as an architect I consider the the the lot with all its issues or not issues I talk we I consider the scope of work and then I design it and then the reason that we come to the board of adjustment is because that word adjustment is in there and it's up to the board of adjustment and and everybody we listen to we listen to the folks that live uh approximate to the to the house we listen to what their concerns are and we make changes that's the process that this board does and that's what you're explaining the process of this only board I know the Z work I'm just pointing out that you designed the house based upon this program of wants and your proposal to the board was not to be satisfied with the current side yard encroachment but to go further into the sidey yard to go five feet off the side yard that's correct right that was the first proposal yes it was sure and as you sit here today you are now making a compromise to the board that you'll only be 14 feet off the side yard when 17 is required it's 14 yeah you uh testified that the applicant wanted an extra garage correct correct and do you consider not having an extra garage a hardship that the board should consider well if you know the neighborhood you know the problem with parking so I do I I was concerned about the neighborhood and if I I can create parking and therefore a garage on that site that will in in essence gives us four cars in garages and it allows probably four cars to park on the site that to me is is a very positive thing I didn't ask whether it was positive I asked whether you considered an extra garage to be a hardship that justified further encroachment decid going to object to that hardship is a planning concern not an architectural concern an architect he's not qualified to answer that Mr Dorne uh you you testified in the previous hearing and tonight that one of your parts of your program was to find a fourth bedroom in the house correct correct and are you aware that when Mr Ying purchased the house it had four bedrooms yeah totally inadequate the bedrooms that he purchased were totally inadequate for what he wanted and you are you aware that the listing uh of the property also had a fifth bedroom downstairs that was listed as fifth bedroom office were you aware that well Realtors often label things incorrectly were you aware that the listing contained a diagram with a floor plan that listed a room downstairs at the fifth bedroom office you were not aware of no so as part of your program you were searching for a fourth bedroom but that's because the bedrooms were completely inadequate when Mr that that's not how we do it as Architects I don't really I consider the mass and the planning of it I don't really care that there were there was some fifth bedroom that didn't make any sense at all can I get the uh the the floor plan back up that possible the new one Mr or the existing one no this this one will be fine which one is this one this looks like the second floor elevation can I have the slide before the first floor what floor do you want um first floor this is the first floor am I asking for the basement then is what's underneath the two that's what that's the Bas there thank you so uh Mr Dorne uh the area that is that's labeled cool house on the top which which addition is that is that D it is a sorry so so when I I'm just going to step up here to it when I'm referring to addition a I'm referring to this area over here you say over here I'm sorry it's the basement uh level of the co okay when you pointed the audience couldn't see what you're so it's it's addition a be the ground Flor and it's on on the record it's sheet a 1.0 okay now Mr Dorne this addition a this addition increases the encroachment into the side yard correct yes and the and it encroaches into the side yard three about 3 and A2 ft right and could you tell the board why it's necessary that your twostory pool house approaches an extra 3 and half ft into the Township's stated zoning side well once we decided that in order to make the garage the main garage viable by adding three and a half fet we considered using that as our as our setback line because from the from the front of the house you really don't get to see that and um and we actually pulled it in a little bit more than what the garage was so there's there's a planning um decision there that seems to make sense to me so if Above This you only had a onear garage you wouldn't need to encroach it it it it's it is only a one car garage it's too deep but it's one wide and uh in order to not have addition a encroach into the sidey guard setback there's no real reason that you couldn't eliminate the dining area or the kitchen or the bathroom or two B two closets in fact two closets might do it right well you're looking at the basement I think you have to go up to the first floor oh we'll start here okay well I I think you have to start at the first floor because that's the logical spot to start okay this is just for your testimony before the board is there any reason that that addition addition a could not shrink three and 1 half fet in order not to encroach into the neighbor side yard yeah I think there is because you really need a dining area located some minimal amount of feet from the sitting area it's part of the design yeah that's because it's part of your design and part of Mr Ying's wants is there any other reason other than your Aesthetics and Mr Ewing's wants that that couldn't shrink three and 1 half fet it would ruin the design of it that's interesting you say that let's go to that okay so in your testimony before this board last time you testified can we go up one floor [Applause] please okay so now we're looking at the first floor elevation a1.1 I thought what was most interesting tonight in withdrawing The Office application was your testimony the last meeting your testimony at the last meeting was that that office addition was absolutely necessary and would ruin the building if you didn't have you remember saying that I I could have either remember or you don't I could I have the quotes you don't have if you say it was in there then it was in there okay your testimony was that if the board did not Grant the uh the bump out for the office that it would ruin the geometry of the house that's what you said that's what I said okay but tonight it's okay to withdraw it doesn't ruin the geometry of the house no that's not the reason why we're withdrawing it no no I asked you you testified before this board under o that that addition was necessary and if the board didn't Grant it it would ruin the geometry of the house if I said it I said it okay and tonight you don't need the addition in the house is f is that correct I still think that that office the way we designed it is much better than leaving the addition that's there but the neighbors to the right really really had a issue with it and we eliminated it so on addition a if the neighbors really really have an addition an objection to addition a you'll pull back that three and a half ft on on addition a reason wait wait it's different than that the you I know where you're going with this you want us you want me to say that that's what we did on the garage side that's I want you to say yeah yeah well you're wrong I'm not going to say that because on the right hand side that that was a much better geometry for an office it functioned better for for Mike but Mike Mike said to us we all got together he said listen I can't you know I don't want it I I want to have people that that I live next to be a good neighbor so that applies to addition a as well no it doesn't because what what happens with addition a is that it's a functionality of it what we do is we correct the the we correct the the garage that's existing we don't expand any further towards the side by sidey yard EX actually it's even less than that and from the front you don't really see it you don't see it the massing of it we kept in from where the where the main garage so it's a totally different thing the the parking issue and the garage issue is much bit much different than the office is okay so um the office that you were replacing when you testified that the office Edition was completely necessary that was an office library that was listed in the listing as having custom milw radiant ke and it was 24 by1 right I I didn't testify to that that I remember and and your testimony was that that was completely inadequate a 24 by10 office that's why you absolutely necessary to have that pum out the geometries make much more sense and you pulled it back because the neighbors objected yeah might that yeah okay so you you understand the analogy now you understand the analogy that you're building a pool house with a seating area a kitchen two closets and a mechanical room there's not a reason in the world it can't move back three and a half ft and the only difference between the two is that you're acknowledging that the neighbors on the one side were upset about it and you're ignoring the neighbor on the other side no once once again you're you're mixing up things once again the garage issue and the parking issue is a lot different than the library issue because because you have to have fourcc car garage not no it it it has to do it has there's a lot of a lot of parts to that yeah right the part let question the thing is is that it four car garage one is one that Mike collects the other is is that when his grownup daughter children come they have a place to put their car they also now have a place to park in that parking sport which not too many people have in that neighborhood there are only I think three other houses that have three car garages and it looks it always looks as though everything is crammed in in this case it's not crammed in there's adequate parking there's parking to get people off the street and it works I think actually very very nicely the same way you thought the office worked well I did think the office worked really well yeah you're correct okay we're arguing let's keep on moving with the um the uh plan could I have a 2.1 up 2.5 please so Mr Dorne um you were emphasizing to the board that the uh that the the view from the street would not see the maps of the new pool house and two-car garage correct pretty much yeah until you go past the house and look back over your shoulder yeah but you can't deny the mass of the pool house and two-car garage is substantial from the neighbor's yard I don't think so I think it looks fine I didn't ask you what it look fine you specifically testified to the board that one of your programs was that as you were driving down the street you would not see the mass of the building that is the pool house and the garage and I think for the most part you do not correct but if you're in the neighbor's yard you certainly see it 14 ft off of the property 2 and a half three stories straight up well yeah she you're a neighbor sure that that's obvious so when you were designing it you were designing it for the look from the road and the hiding of the Mask in the road but you didn't make any accommodations for the MK from the neighbor's Ro I certainly do I made it look architecturally in scale it's it we made maintain the brick and I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with it that it looks odd you like the way it looks I do I wouldn't have drawn it if I didn't and you think that justifies the encroachment into the neighbor side I I'm not saying that that's the sole reason for doing it it's the functionality of it that I think makes it work and if you live in that neighborhood and you have you have any any relatives or guests that come you would appreciate what I did there I'm sure they'll P you later okay let's uh plan You' submitted to the board those windows in the cool house they all look straight out onto the neighbor's property they're behind they're behind the house they look at the property obviously they do yeah and in the plans that you've submitted you haven't provided the board with any lighting details of the lighting of that addition it's not a requirement and we certainly AR AR going to be blasting flood lights out there the appropriate scones that are code compliant next to the garage door will will be there there are no there are not going to be any flood lights at all and you think when you were encroaching into the neighbor side yard setback at two and a half three stories that someone might ask you about what the lighting would look like from the neighbor's yard well it's it's a bedroom and a suite up there and I don't think there's going to be any lights on it for probably 90% of the time I have no further questions thank you Mr any other members of the public with questions so before we hear any public questions I just want to point out that Mr 's office I believe represents several neighbors or just one represent one just one okay thank you B myself you the house house yes I I'm not sure okay what number you on I'm sorry what's your house number 46 okay I'm uh one two doors away three door actually he's the third house over okay now the house is at least 3,500 square feet you would agree I wouldn't I don't are you considering the basement as well no no not counting the basement I don't think it's that is it in proportion to the the houses that are in the neighborhood I think some of them but not all of them and uh how old is the house and uh 100 Years A lot of people have lived in that house I would imagine I don't know well people have lived there pretty consistently I would think in that neighborhood correct houses have always been small most and the house itself has a two-car garage to inadequate toage and why is it inadequate because it's too it's too narrow and if you you if you ask 100 Architects and 100 wheel what a two-car garage is they would say the 22 ft wide and 24t wide and I think 19t all the houses that were original houses were built there were built with this type of garage and there have been many families that have lived there with this twocc car garage correct I don't know there gages I think it's a 2350 and 55 Spring Brook there three car garages which make a lot more sense to but we're talking about the existing property right now I don't know whether they were existing or not so the existing properties the two-car garage and the families that have lived there whomever they might be have lived there for a number of years have used a two-car garage that's a situation yeah and your client lives there by himself at the moment correct I don't know what that has to do with it but well do you know that there's more than one person living in that house I do not you do not know that and you planned a fourcc car garage for how many people people I think what he's trying to uh establish is that his house has been very satisfactory to people for Generations I don't know how you establish that with his cross examination satisfied do his testimony he's dissatisfied with a garage that doesn't work okay you could bring that up but I think he's on the right track then [Music] continue yes there's two full bathrooms on the second floor I think so let me ask you this you designed the project did you ever go inside the house yes you looked around sure and you're not sure if there two two bathrooms or I have a huge amount of pro projects that I'm working on I design not because of what is necessarily in there but what the needs are for my client and so the needs are that the two bathrooms were inadequate they're inadequate they're old they're too small and today in today's houses everybody wants on Street bedroom some of them might be original one the last years I I don't know don't know no that's that's not my job no while he's there I I don't know what that has to do with anything what what is there and what he uses I don't know what that has to do stair FL the staircase is awful it rise and run are terrible and if you if you're have any disability at all it would be extremely hard to go up and down you ever suggest you're going to go buy another house oh my God why would I don't have to answer that how long is the driveway I how long is it I'm asking you I I don't know I I I do the ma how many cars can you park in the drive now you could now yeah two and a half in the driveway itself yeah if you're lucky you mean as you go down absolutely it's a terrible scenario question is how many cars I don't know I don't know what that question has to do with anything no my job is Mr way just ask the questions and if he doesn't know he doesn't know no the new garage has two side by side and and one the one in the rear is one one wide two de one that for two yeah it's a collectible car go he use his daily cars he would like to have in his like what I said you would like to have it's it's like anybody else in America you can if you're you're free to decide what works for you or what doesn't if you're good with a onecar garage then hats off to you but that's not what I was hired for I was hired to design a house that at the end of the day Mike Ying would enjoy it and would you agree that the house that Mike would enjoy is quite different than the existing house not really no [Music] noin sitting in yard patio looking up at this building about three stories y I'm see right and I'm looking at from the rear property well then that's not then that's not sitting in her backyard that's sitting in his backyarder sides theer right of course okay looking atre looking from the side she sees three levels it's two levels what happen to the bottom a wall isall covers wall covers most of it and then there's a there's a a really great uh planting design that seal has done for it to help to cover that right now you don't even see that because there's trees and TR you don't see theer or haven't you been there oh I've been there many times I'm sitting on the patio on the seller propert I haven't been in her property so I don't really know what other than the fact that there are some trees and bushes there which we are going to demonstrate that our new design is going to satis y any issues that may be may be existing that's wonderful you're satisfy issues with plantings and trees we're going to satisfy what we think is the right landscape designed for there something that would something that works in the neighborhood something that works for a mic and something that works for the project I I think it's going to work fine for her too did she she my question is okay your question is did you I tried to speak to her a number of times which she didn't right here at the board of adjustment I went up to her and I started to try to talk to her and she wanted nothing to do with me and she was represented by Council well then there's the reason why I can't talk to her well besides the fact that she refused to talk to me okay I think we're arguing back and forth let's move on and Mr Wade he didn't testify about landscape plan so these are questions about his specific testimony driveway area and parking is no different than any other property on the street isn't it no I think there are definitely different scenarios and configurations for garages and driveways like I said there are three properties 25 I think 50 and 55 where there's a three car garage my question other than those three standard our neighborhood it depends upon what you call Standard I I look at it as a as a neighborhood that has gone through different design changes and I think there's a real need for three-car garage [Music] I don't think it's typical I think there are other houses like it but I don't think anymore it's typical if you look at any of the houses in the neighborhood other than that immediate area and even in that immediate area there have been reasonably large additions and Renovations from I don't know that that's the case now is this property looking at Spring Brook Road itself pretty typical the typ home now sizewise I think there are houses that are typical of that but there are other houses that are not they're they've been renovated they're changed they're bigger they're expanded thank you know that any other members of the public good evening I'm Gloria Carson k a r s n Spring Hill L and I am not a direct neighbor of the uh requesting where what did you say your address was n Spring Hill Lane than not Spring Brook right that's why I asked so I am not adjacent to the property in question um from what we've heard from the developer um there will be what they're calling either a pool house or a guest house or a carriage house uh which contains two bedrooms a bath a living room a dining room and a two-car garage as we all know this is Ty the questions not I have the pre to get Mr chairman that's not what that pool housee contains well then that's let's limit it the question okay um why is this not considered the onlyon regulations do not allow a second living structure on a single property this sounds like a second living structure except for the fact there's a little door going from the Octagon I believe that that that would that qualify it as a continuous dwelling pardon that would qualify it as a continuous dwelling is that correct yes it would me it would meet the definition because it's continuous it is a second dwelling um isn't that prohibited by current zoning no it's not a second dwelling it's not a second dwelling why not because it's continu it's it's continuous they're joined okay but five minutes after this committee approves it they could lock a door make it a standalone second second living residence no they can it's against the law not legally right are you going to file again for what why should what do you mean when am I going to file again if you're having if you're renting it out as an Airbnb he's not renting it out well how do we know that because it's against the law uh ask them what what someone does their own property that's not that's why don't you ask the board yeah it's it's not a two family home there's no proposal to be a two- family home right it it is not there's no proposal that this be a two- family home it is a one family home that's right there's no proposal for it right which doesn't mean that's not what would ultim well if he did then he'd be in violation of the zoning ordinances and he would end up in Municipal Court it sounds like it's a technicality with coming off the octagon and anybody put it doesn't allow him to rent it out to a second family of neighbors are concerned about a second living from from the amount of people in this room tonight I would think if they recognize there was another family living there as well the town would know about it right away even it was if it's family they can live there feel comfortable with that I bring it up as issue that I believe and my neighbors right now we're concerned with questions from Mr dor okay the question was that second living obviously what we want to get through now is they get approved but what happen six months later could be something different that that would be testimony as opposed to asking Mr D questions about the architectural plans you have any other questions um I guess the general question why couldn't all these wonderful developmental changes be done within the current zoning laws why are we even here today let answer the question forms there's there's a thing called Board of adjustment and the word adjustment means that the board can act on changes they either vote for it positively or against it that's why the board is here we've come for the board we've made a lot of different changes we have only only two very from what I think is a very minor uh variance and that's sidey issues we we comply on our lot coverage our building coverage our height coverage everything and anytime we we have tried to do whatever we possibly can to appease anybody's issues all right some of the neighbors not appeased with your plans we're allowed to ask for a change that's what we're doing you're allowed to voice your opinion and then at the end the board will decide whether or not we have we have done as much as we can to satisfy the needs of aren't the needs and wishes of the neighbors okay we're we're arguing specific plans about specific questions thank you thank you Le 38 spring b r Mr dor what is the current square feet because you've made this change so my calculations are not now correct and I'm have my calculator to do it on the fly but what is the new calculation of square footage there's no plan for us to see footage the house yes total sare foot first square footage we're taking out toal whatever it was if you have another question you can ask she's going to calculate that for you we are not over on lot coverage or building that's not what I'm getting at so I need to yeah we're 13 less so y that's what we used to be- 13t so 2468 that's what we used to be - 13 2455 2455 that's the square that's the total square footage of the that's just the and then you subtracted the garages right new proposed building coverage is 3,987 you that building basically you're asking square footage for like it would be calculated for tax purpos yes total so wouldn't count second floor4 all right so the entire first and second floor without the garage without the basement that's what we're looking for 4,95 4 4,95 but wait but the walk out basement is not it's finished area i b we can add that I mean typically we don't include that but we add the basement we're at 6,915 6,916 15 in your last testimony didn't you claim that this was a similar property to the Mong property on Armstrong Road I I may have I don't know what the exact square footage is of M I recall you're saying that I'm not disputing that I may said that the mong's square footage and acreage to be able to make that no no so the the mongi square footage is 4,577 square feet you're not here to testify ask questions I'll BR that up later then um you also just mentioned other three car garages and you mentioned 50 spring for RO do you know that's square footage and do you know no the lot size no so I can't tell him I have to wait to yeah yeah he he said he doesn't know okay so I see two AC units are there any other AC units in this property there there won't be those two will be the ones that remain there won't be any other how can as an architect how can two AC units pull 6,916 square feet because the way the way the uh hbac systems are done now is that they're much more efficient the the insulation quality of it is much more efficient if we use um uh package units they're inside the house so no where is the proposal for the generator there will be a future proposal is what you're saying did you not hear did you not hear what was did mention that there's a possibility for a future proposal the generator has been withdrawn from the application so if so if they come if they wanted a generator they would have to place it in a location where it's conforming to the ordinance and if they couldn't do that they'd have to come back to the board for a different varant but right now that's no longer part of the application have you I liked some of the testimony before about the garage and you have claimed that about the parking on the street you've mentioned 50 Spring Brook Road have you looked at their driveway have you considered other options like expanding the driveway into the front yard just like 50 spring Burke roote the topography wouldn't allow it it's a different topography you're shaking your head I I don't know why there's a tophy there's a total different Topography of those houses so have you examined that you could set that garage Edition you could set it over and still maintain the size that Mr Ying would like and give some relief you could architecturally look at that it would it would have aett have a negative effect on a definite negative effect on on this structure and how it functions have you considered otheres that are they are called now I'm blanking um no that the houses that go straight back there are I we lived in Madison Madison has smaller pieces of property all these railroad houses unfortunately they're not as perfect but that's what they do to be able to get a three car garage in have you considered that to help neighbors what what I what I considered was that once we expanded the totally inadequate two-car garage that you can't hardly call it a two-car garage we actually pulled it in further than from the sidey yard than what that was we thought I think that that's a good planning when you do that and if we and to further push it in it you know whether it if you pushed it in two feet or three feet more it's going to have the same visual effect as if it was where it is and it functions a lot better but you you could achieve Mr hing's wants with a railroad house and I'm not sure what you mean by violations I'm not sure what you're talking get these garages it's a it's a totally different design it is and it's it's a design that I don't think it wouldn't encroach neighbors it's not a design that I think works I think it's more important that the design works and the functionality of it works and we try to maintain that sidey setback with more than 14 feet which we did which is what the front yard front garage is so yeah we we consider it an awful lot I I would have loved to have been able to drive the driveway down underneath and put garages under everything but it's impossible to do that we did the math on and you can't do it no comments please thank you any other members of the public my name is j Ferrari and I live at number six Spring Hill Lane um I had I had asked a question at one of the last meetings of what the definition of a residence was I don't recall that we we ever answered that have you all found out anything since that last meeting the definition of a residence I Joan I don't think the town has a definition for residents but let me zoning stand no there's no definition for residents in the code book so my concern isol's house um is it is it are there any uh shared heating systems cooling systems with the main house well we haven't designed the hcac system but I don't know what that has to do with whether or not it's connected to the house or not well if they're all in one system it certainly is well most of the time most of the houses that I design today they're more efficient more economical and they run much better if you have multiple systems and you can use you can take a a single system and break it into zones and that's the best way to design um hbac systems so so you really haven't you really aren't connecting the mouse through common systems well the the toilets and the sinks and everything are common systems I'm talking about utilities the the um even the heating systems well heating systems are I mean in today's environment heating systems are extremely important um they always are yeah but no they're more important now that they function well and and the more they're broken up the better off they are okay so what is the answer my question what is your question my question is have you connected them in the same systems or are they independent systems well if we use a hydronic system then it all it'll all be one boiler but what do you use I haven't decided what we're doing yet so that's the the system that's there right now is a hydronic system so it's a hot water system and we can do a a water to a system with that where we create and locate VAV boxes that work both on the air conditioning and the heating system so it's all one boiler well um with the with the air conditioning system will that be an extra units no no they're the VAV boxes they also have a refrigerant line that go into them and so depending upon whether it's winter or summer whether you want cooling or heating those two systems work in tandem with each other as one system but there so there will not be what third airing unit there won't be an independent one for the no not necessarily um we haven't designed it yet so you know we wait to see okay I guess my what I'm thinking is if you've got independent systems if you're planning independent systems for the cool house does that make that but considering the the accommodations in it does that make it a residence separate the same question we've we've discussed it before and it is not it is not a separate residence the the B Accord based upon the plans the uh uh addition a uh is connected uh to the uh existing house theis existing house and therefore to considered to be one structure it's connected how how permanent and how how significant is it goes through the dining room and into the uh proposed de that correct Mr D yes that's correct okay something went on the other side now I forgot um oh I know what it was the clearances on either side uh there's nine fet on one side and 14 on the other side which is 23 but it's according to this they a total of 50 ft required which means it's taking up it's only allowing half of the the uh clearances so it's taking up a very significant part well it's it's not 9 ft anymore it's what is it it's uh the on on the right hand side it was nine that we originally proposed but we moved it in to match up with the addition the appendage that's on the house now so that's that's ating and then on the other side we're we when you look at the 50 Feet combin the total we have is 29.4 that's still a little more than half well just wanted to make sure you had the right number that's all I know I'm just what you all okay I'm still not convinced that it's not a a a separate a separate residence because with with independent systems and no more than a fairely Joan it's still time for questions only you'll have an opportunity later okay I know that okay I know you know okay but my opinion is thank you any other members of the public with questions Tony 59 Road um three questions uh put in a sport system you're still going to need a condenser outside will you be putting and showing everybody where the condensers are going to be outside for your AC system make sure that it it's not infringing on those any anything that we anything that we do once we design it it'll be within the setbacks and it'll be less it'll maintain a lot coverage and a building coverage of less than what we can do so it won't be taking any more of that side side area up that we're talking about for the variant we we if we had to we we would put them in the back there there are multiple locations that we can put them that would would uh comply to the zone but to make it clear Mr Dorne the the two condensers that are currently on the right rear of the property are going to remain right or maybe be replaced with that location well while we're on that subject excuse me for interrupting um where the existing um uh office is okay and the one that's going to remain uh you've got the AC AC and Generator delineated in there but just beyond that there's two two boxes looks like about things are going to be removed what are are what are they and what I think you're talking about the two the two boxes that are yeah that that's the existing that's where they are now and so thought you said they were backed by uh in where addition D was no no they're I don't know what addition that's called but no they're addition yeah so they're they're going to be where they are now they're sh inside addition they're show in right but then one of those two little boxes sitting outside of uh to the right of where you were proposing to put the generator I I don't know what yeah right right by uh the 19 I mean we have it dotted in so I don't think that's yeah I know so so but I don't know what is it it going to stay is it going to go [Music] I think from there I don't think there's anything old that's what I'm thinking that they might be old okay but they're not the air conditioning units the yeah it might have been that showed up on the survey to just show picture doesn't shows the ex okay there is you we'll let you uh question him about that okay have more questions uh two more okay um first I was going to ask uh or second I was going to ask did you know that garage hous fulls siiz car and a full siiz operational hovercraft larger than my husband's cheap chart so that was in that small garage that you that doesn't that doesn't negate the fact that it's it's inadequate okay um so uh it was good enough for theoc uh last question last question um was just did you know that that house uh was actually the uh host of many neighborhood parties and was considered by many of us to be one of the Premier pop houses in our neighborhood I don't know how I would know that okay good night thank you thank you for telling us miss nent you had another oh wait there some we go let everybody else testify question first do you have a question ma'am in the back uh two rows three rows in front of you she was just letting her through oh okay yes I John melli I live on 11 carton I'm below Spring Brook and my question was in regards to drainage for rain uh in relation given how big the footprint of the property is as far as drainage to adjoining properties as well as properties below uh Mr that would be the engine and Miss meller testified already as to the design and the drainage design yes and I think um our Engineers reviewed it also that okay so I think it's I think that's been addressed yes okay the other question is the height variance in relation to encroaching on the side property is there any sort of rule as far as going to the maximum height variance so and violating this the side variance also and you're asking uh that is there a reduced height allowance for when you're encroaching that that's your question yes no no there's not okay and again to be clear there is no height Mar right right right but he just asking is that does that exist does it go down lower is it get closer to the side of the property can youat what's your address 11 11 car Road thank you okay any other members of the public with questions yes Miss n you add up again Spring Brook Ro from what you were answering Joe I'm very confused that you're you told me only two AC units then your words before to her were not necessarily to that you hadn't designed the system yet for the addition so isn't this an incomplete design to be able to state to me only two to her not necessarily two no if if you if you were hiring me you wouldn't want hire me to do construction documents typically what we do is we go to the board with plans and elevations we don't do we don't put mechanical systems into that and to answer your question about so there there's no ambiguity here the systems that we we plan there there's a number of them unless you're a mechanical engineer maybe you're not privy to all the ones that we have but anything that we would do if if we needed bigger or if we needed bigger or more condensing units they would be located in a position on the property where it wouldn't affect the lot coverage the building coverage or a setback so you wouldn't go later because you answered my question saying just two there's only only going to be two we can't when I ask would there be an additional we can't there would not be any additional to the sidey yard if I asked for the overall design I haven't made that design I haven't made that design yet and I haven't decided what me incorrectly did you not no I didn't I asked you would there be more than two units I did not say to the side yard for 6900 okay I don't I don't know but I will say that probably those two units are going to remain and that was the question and that's the issue that the board would have to decide on because they're within that setb so okay that is a different answer than what I was asking there there's a lot of there's a lot of solutions you would like there is some if you would like access to my photo there is some kind of unit don't know if it's an AC unit Miss before we try to look at that are you able to email that to the board oh can you email it to Sonia because then I'm going to mark it as an exhibit if we're going to use it sure can you do it like tonight sure and and any rate will it help you to see that picture to determine what's on the you know according to Mike anything that's there we're not going to be using well let's let let's just see see what's there so we can make make it definitive right so we're going to mark for the record we're going to mark this as A1 Miss Nan's going to tell us what that is though okay photo of what photo of the side of the house like a northwest corner I'm sorry but the picture is from what from our house to the side of Mr okay and it displays okay well why don't you show it to Mr Mr Dorne I didn't know it existed we can decide whether what the deal is with it so what are we doing right now we sending it to are we gonna show Mr Dorne so we can answer a question about it I'll send it right now I know but let's ask Mr dor you can ask Mr dor you can ask Mr dor about it you just have to send it to Sonia sometime yeah it just passes the mic and I'll look at you couldn't do that now yeah right that's what I was offer okay okay let's just show it to Mr Dorne so we can so here are the two AC units and then this is this other unit you can blow it up because it's thats cabinet no there's P to it and it has a fan so it looks like an old I just took it recently like this last week yeah because of concern for trees I don't know what that is but I don't think us so that's going to be eliminated yeah I I believe so oh not not believe you say yes yes or no yeah no we'll we'll eliminate that okay I'm just going to make a note Mr chair we'll eliminate the quote box it's hard to something make a note on that yeah but we got to know whether it's going or [Music] staying I think I know what this is tell Mr D just recognize yourself identify yourself sorry for the record applicant you're still under still under um Mr Mel can you please go to that table and use that microphone thank um sometimes we see units in um small apartments I used to see them in China all the time they're tiny little they're narrow um either air conditioning or heating or both units maybe even a heat pump um and that's what that looks like to me you can I don't know whether it's op okay doesn't look like it okay but it's gonna go anyway [Music] yeah we can't pick we can't pick that up with you gotta we're only ask questions of Mr D this in any event uh Mr dor is represented and council is represented that whatever that box is it's going to be eliminated disappear okay any other members of the public with questions of Mr Dorne seeing none hearing none close the public portion board members any questions of Mr Dorne at this point Mr Slate any questions no no questions I something you talk so Mr dor can we bring back up the um on the floor plan the second floor proposed plan please what sheet number is that because you can't see it from here a1.2 a1.2 okay so so Mr dor on a1.2 the addition over the existing garage yes right is that going to go straight up from the exterior wall the reason I asked that is the the engineers plan and I'm sorry we're just picking up on this but it just occurred to me Dave if you look at the engineers plan she shows 49.89 feet to that corner of the garage with the 50 Foot required setback going straight so if you're going to go straight up I think you have a front yard variant on the second floor it's 50 01 existing I now she's showing 50.1 proposed to that new garage Edition right and then look to the right there's a line that shows at that left corner it shows 50.0 n feet existing and then look to the right corner 49 49.89 existing and proposed right so so it it's the Minimus right I get what you're saying at that corner because it's an existing structure right I straight up yeah I think I think your planner just needs to address that as well okay okay can I just ask you a clarifying question on um what was referred to in the course of the conversation that just is the parking issue that you're attempting to solve for um I think I was Mr Wade brought up a good point in terms of number of cars that can park just in that driveway run heading down um not excluding the pad once you get to the bottom and can go to the right um my SC isn't there I mean I would think in that driveway you could stacked up just going down the main Drive probably fit four cars you probably could but what I was what I'm trying to do and then on the pad itself you could probably Park another four I mean for I I upon my sa is I was surprised at how much parking there actually was so I'm not sure what the parking issue is that you're trying to solve for well because if you have cars parked there I'm trying to create a non you know chaotic parking scenario where you can get down on on the on the parking Court you can have you know three or four cars that just point out if somebody is in the parking court and and they want to leave and there's three or four cars in the way they will have to back out and I Mr Dorne you said something about the Spring Brook and the parking situation on Spring Brook you didn't elaborate go through that a little bit sure and it's graphy is is pretty steep there so if the car is backing up and they're looking each way to see the car is coming then you know I think it's kind of awkward you may not but does Spring Brook have parking on both sides or I don't think they have any sides what do you mean I don't think you can I mean if you park a car like right across the street from Mike's it's it's kind of been right in the street is there parking permitted on both sides I don't know yes okay but even if it it is permitted that doesn't mean it it functions well because it wouldn't function well it's pretty narrow and then like especially where Mike's is it's it's kind of steep onto his property and you know I don't think You' like if you parked on the street in front of his house the passenger if you you kept the car over as much as you could the passenger on the on the hillside on the house side side would be pretty steep there listen I I designed to make it to make what I think is right um what you're saying is absolutely correct you could put cars there if you're having a party or you know some people may have to jockey their cars around so people could leave but that's nothing that's a hard abnormal when we when we thought about the the distance between the house house garage and the and the other garage you know I said you need a minimum of 30 35 ft for a good turnaround so we we had a nice separation in there anyway and it creates just a really nice scenario for parking that's all whether whether it's something that has to be or doesn't have to be it seemed to work and and it didn't it didn't push us over on the lot coverage or the building coverage so I think it's I think it's a win-win for the property and for the neighborhood all right thank you any other board members with questions I think want to take a five minute recess we'll take a five minute recess second before we get started we have to do roll call again here here Willam here Sim here here here here here okay now we can get started okay would you please stand raise your right hand do you somly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you gu I and would you state your full name spell your last name please uh Celia deff D UF thank you you can thank you silly could you share with the board your educational and professional background what certifications and licenses you hold so I have a license I'm a licensed landscape architect I've been a licensed landscape architect for uh more than 20 years and I'm a graduate of the uh Ruckers program of landscape architecture and how are you employed uh self-employed I have my own business okay and doing what uh as a landscape architect okay um and is your license to landscape architect currently bance yes okay Mr chairman I asked that Mr elf be accepted as expert landscape architecture I agree to that M I'm GNA ask please speak microphone is that better thank okay s we have up on the screen I think it would be A10 an exhibit did you prepare that I did okay till the board what it is and what it shows so this is the landscape plan for the uing residents um I'm just going to go clockwise and um Chris will kind of follow with the pointer where I am starting at the front of the home uh there are some existing mature Pines that will be preserved and we're doing an underplanting of shoes roed dendrons which is a nice soft white uh White Road add dendron that will frame the house um they're established shrub wers to the east and west of the front lawn and we're going to selectively prune those and add pandra so that we have a continuous frame around the semicircular front lawn panel um in front of the home there are some nice Hol that are going to be preserved um all the overgrown and Ley plant material would will be removed and Alaska zelia boxwood and drift of ferns and a sby will be added which will create a nice soft welcoming entry um and when planting the perimeter I really looked at the surrounding architecture and the fenestration uh on the adjacent homes so I really tried to think about how I could you know nicely screen in between the adjacent homes um on the left hand side I started with a green emerald Arbor Hedge question sure this um diagram you have up here um exhibit 810 right that's based on the plans that with uh the study the new study in that the office the new office so is it going to be modified based upon retaining the old office and how is it going to be modified um well let me just go clockwise and then when I get to that section so I'm kind of going around the house when I get there I'll show you I don't really think I need to make any modifications over there because there were some there two large trees over there that we're keeping and it just had an understory planting so it's really not going to change much over there at all so we we'll get over there so currently you along the left hand property line along the driveway right yes so on the left hand side started with a green emerald Arbor hedge which will be planted at 5 to 6 feet and we grow be grown to an 8 to 10 foot hedge and we'll sheare it flat at the top um so it'll just create a nice wonderful screen and provide privacy in between the two front yards and the driveways moving down the driveway uh the arbor will sweep up as we transition to a larger Arbor and that will be planted at 10 to 12 feet and be grown to 15 feet and again that'll be sheared flat so it'll be a hedge running down the side of the driveway and it'll sweep up to a larger hedge uh that view line is then ended with a large green giant Arbor vety and spring blooming Airwood by Burnham between the property line and the new garage pool house right no we're right here right in between those two walls right now so now we're dropping below that wall and um there's an existing um tree there I think it's a 6inch caliper so we are putting some double file viburnums under there uh which will create a nice uh blooming understory and then uh growing some climbing uh hydrangeas up the building um climbing hydranges are really pretty they just you know they are a nice soft Vine that is kind of a three-dimensional Vine and has a really pretty um spring uh hydrangea Bloom on it and that's the fact that this uh whole building is Brick gives us the opportunity to do that in a lot of places which is really nice U so I'm moving further down the property line to the pool area uh there's a triple hedge which is a 6 foot sheared green emerald ARB hedge fronted with hydrangea and a low boxwood hedge which is also mirrored on the other side of the pool um now the back property line is fairly dense so all the existing plant material is going to remain and additional Limelight hydrangeas will be added that will kind of make a more uniform back um tree line and you know just fill in any gaps and as we work our way up past that triple hedge that was mirrored on the other side um to the right hand side of the property we're going to plant 15t uh Green Giant Arbor VY um they're planted um to screen that size yard and they grow up to about 40t and um this is a little bit of a shadier elevation so uh these green Giants will remain a little more feathery and open which I think is makes them a prettier plant actually and going up when that's the area that you were talking about um there's two large um deciduous trees there so again I put the double file by burnhams under there as an understory um because we have that upper level canopy with the two large trees and then the double file VI burn them underneath so you have the inkberry Holly there yeah they were there to screen the AC units okay will they they be installed now that we're existing building wall is I don't think we're going to need them no probably not I'll probably actually bring the Astilbe and the ferns around and just make it more of a Garden area um so we can look at the plant slides that'll give you a better idea of you know the overall planting theme um so Mr make this A1 pictures of the plant yes A1 so uh I put up a few different pictures of the emerald green Arbor because we are really sharing these Arbor VY and they were on the Le hand side and then by the pool so it really gives you a nice green wall it's a you know an evergreen hedge it stays kind of in its Lane it doesn't get too big and um it just gives you a really nice um sense of privacy then if we move up we have I have a picture of the um maybe you just show the whole page the the page before so we have the airw Airwood viburnum and the double file viburnum they're used as underst stories so they which we can't read them from here oh okay well you can zoom in then please zoom in so yeah if you're not familiar with them they're just you know really beautiful um flowering shrub that blooms in the spring kind of a dogwood flower and um just creates a really nice underst story and they also have a thick fairly thick branching habit so it gives a kind of a nice filtered screen in the winter as well and then to the right is the Climbing Hydrangea and that is what's going to be grown up the building in a lot of different areas um that really like just softens and breaks up um uh you know just the different pieces of architecture um the hydranges are down by the pool the little quickfires um just kind of gives you on the right an idea of what that little boxwood hedge looks like um go down to the bottom again maybe um boxwood everybody knows what boxwood is Limelight hyrangea and uh the red maple go on that back property line the the most southern line and if you go to the next page um you know there this is the the aelas and the uh red dendrons and the Astilbe and it just kind of gives you a sense of the nice soft palette very um kind of I don't for La better words Hampton looking um gardeny looking cottaging looking really just softens the whole house and you know just makes it look friendly and welcoming if you could s could we go back to uh the first the land the landscape plan explain just so we're clear because we've got the uh the variances for the sidey what's going again now that we've seen the pictures what's going between the pool house garage uh Carriage House garage structure and the property okay so right right so those are the double file VI there was already an existing 6in caliber tree there so I wanted to save that um so I left that there and I'm planting the understory of the double file viburnum the double file viburnum are they're fairly large flowering shrub I mean they grow to about 12 feet um probably like 12 feet 12 to 14 feet high 12 to 14 ft wide so they'll really fill in that area and also we have that c hranger for growing up the building um and if you zoom zoom out a little bit Clarissa because really look you can use the microphone on the desk please over take so if you look there we go if you if you look at where are we was I so in here yeah what we were looking in here the double file viburnum yeah so if you look at the fenestration here so this is the neighbor's house so basically there a row of Windows under here and they are all covered with a mountain laurel then there's one little window up here and then there's a kind of a glasson porch here um but this is also lower than the area up here Mr Ewing house so if you really look at the direction they're looking and what they're looking at um everything is pretty um nicely screened and there's a huge um Maple right here is that the 18 that's the 18in yeah how high will the the shrubs that are along the uh the driveway that wall area how high will they get so these are going up to 15 feet in here and they're elevated and there at solid green I don't have any further questions Mr chairman board members any [Music] questions yes Mr chair um thank you very much M for going through that very carefully um and I'm somewhat familiar with just about every single plant that you um identified but I want to also make sure that those that are going on either side of the house that screen the neighbors that that doesn't cause any additional work if you will for the Neighbors in terms of leaves falling or any cleanup that they would have to do just because of that that's why I planted the um emerald green because they they stay very tight and they're very controlled and really the only place that we'll be sharing them is off the top just because I don't they're plant that grows with a pointed top if you're familiar with them and I just don't like the way they look with a pointed top I like that straight it's much prettier and cleaner looking okay great thank you question about the retaining walls and this may I may have missed this in a previous meeting or I'm not sure if there was testimony provided but what's the uh the face the walls or what's what type of walls are going to be constructed you know the retain walls on the property is that a question that was the reviewed that in the previous meeting go back and take a look at my notes on that don't know okay I just want to make sure it was covered just a quick question as part of your design Landscape Design Services do you also get involved with the lighting of the landscaping or is that someone else in the project um sometimes I do yeah sometimes uh I I prefer it if I do because I don't like an aggressive landscape lighting plan so uh and I don't know if there'll be one or not um so that's not something that's been discussed okay I know some I mean all the planning is look phenomenal I know sometimes people choose to uplight them at night so they can look at you know so I don't know if that was part of the plan or no okay no not any other members of the board with questions Mr chairman um I don't recall whether There Were Trees being um moved and then having to be um replaced and what the whether the replacement formula meets the requirement um for the work that you're doing as a homestead lot uh the tree wearers would not apply it's a home with lot of existing home on it thank you any other board members with questions any members of the public with questions we had no access to this plan prior so this is the first that we're seeing of it and you're planting a lot along the um borders of the property have you taken into account what is right on that border in our property that's already existing like two cherry trees that are maybe 40 years old and you're going to be digging and putting a lot of plantings right in their root systems um and um yeah I I've been to this site of multiple times and the large trees are marked on the plan and I was very careful to just do under story around them um I don't know where the cherry trees are that you're referring to are right next okay are there three cherries there are two cherries uh then we have a whole hedge and the cherries are much larger we have a whole hedge of um Laurels and we are our property is a lot higher so our deck looks down on to the backyard of Mr Hing so this will provide no screen for our property to pull and the Pao you you can ask a question okay so uh I am concerned and I'm asking did you take into account of all our established plantings of almost 40 years that are right there on the property line I I did and um I put the green Giants over by the cherries and um they're going in a bit smaller and it's a very shady area so they are going to grow as I said before cherries are right here that's where the arbor are but these are they are but will have a bigger root system uh they don't have a huge root system no um well I think we said we were putting them in at 10 to 12 feet so the root ball is not going to be 10 to 12 foot ARB might have like a 30inch root ball it's not like putting in a big Maple or anything like that you're not going to have a 6 foot roof wall and the back right there are existing two very large Evergreens on Mr Ying's property I think there are two yeah uh they're gone they're coming out they're coming out there's one uh Green Giant Arbor that's there now and it just looks kind to me kind of ridiculous because it's just sitting there by itself it provides a lot ofam well it yes it does and there's a triple hedge going in instead of it we're not taking something out and not putting anything back in and I really I'm super super conscious of everything that's existing there but I did think that that one Arbor V that was there just completely looked out of place it it's a great concern for our PL thank you any other members of the public with questions no questions close to okay Mr W planting schedule or whatever you call has that been submitted as an exhibit uh yes it's on the plan it's on the plan yeah and to the right this left side the line is wall yes and plants that are on Mr side of the property will they be the same height of the wall or higher than the wall they'll be higher than the wall the they are veriy planted on the inside yeah you mean between the two walls the two lines Mr W what are you talking about let's start with the initial one one okay okay so uh those are our varities we're putting them in at 5 to six feet and growing them to 8 to 10 and then as we go down the property and we hit that double wall we're putting them in at 10 to 12 and growing them to 15 with that sheared hedge that I showed a picture of so that will swoop up and it'll be a very nice kind of manicure shared hedge in between the two properties and uh yeah uh what is there now uh yeah there's kind of a mishmash of stuff that's there now um or yes yes and no there's one large tree there we're going to um preserve and and then it's kind of a just kind of a mixed shrub border nothing really great looking wall wall and thene trees and then's yes between the pavement and that that single wall uh 1.8T which is one foot n and a half in right now to go look at the property the gate light would that be that whole side be scen with Shrubbery of some kind yes and you're taking all that out uh not what is on the neighbor side of the property know so you can only touch thewing side of the property of course yeah you're going to leave the other side obviously yeah when that wall becomes a reality you know how deep that might be as far as digging uh it depends on the construction of the wall and that would be a question that you would have to ask the engineer I don't know I did not draw the wall so I don't know what she plans on and I don't know if it's been decided what they're making them out of so different walls have different requirements the dep of that wall indic a problem with any plantings alongside that uh I am I I think that there's definitely something that needs to be done around that 18 inch tree yes and we have done things in the past depending on the construction of the wall um in the past if there was a masonry wall we've built a lentil over the um into the footing over the roots of the trees we've done a lot of different things to address large trees to make sure that they survive and it's a maple so I mean it's not an oak which is very difficult to work around but it is a maple and there are a lot of things that we do and we really really really proper no they branches growing over the wall the other property the arbor vities no they're that sheared Green Hedge that we that I showed you a picture of so we just Shear it at the top and they stay tight all the way down and it becomes looks like a double wall yes and is the distance between the two walls that one I do not know uh 3 feet and that's you're going be planting between the three yeah same thing it's the heads I'm just putting them in a larger size because I have more room for a larger root ball so that oh yeah [Music] yeah now the wall does that curve to the right towards the the garage yes and what are you planting in in that little cby hole there two walls are together so I kind of ended that view with a larger Green Giant Arbor VY so that it really so if you look at the way that house is facing and then you see that green jaring Arbor that really just kind of cuts the entire that ends that whole hedge and ends their view right there so it's a a large Evergreen so they get a about 40 feet tall and where the wall stops then below it comes across the end building What's blocking the neighbor view of the destructure well they're that green CH and Arbor is basically going to end their view there because as you can tell that house is kind of facing out that way and everything's going that way so you have that like very dense hedge and then you have a large Evergreen and then beyond that you're not even really going to be able to see much um so there is an existing tree there that has a lot of upper canopy and then I under I wanted to save that so I underplanted that with the double file viburnum which is a very large um blooming shrub and then I also put the um Climbing Hydrangea up the building so that really just grows up the building and takes over and it's just this beautiful like a leafy vine on the brick how high is that building you know I don't know no how high is that building it's two two stories high uh well that tree already goes up the the tree will be as high as the building um the under story obviously will not but it'll be about 14 ft so it'll cover um 2/3 of the building and the climb hydrangea will just soften the whole building it'll you know eventually will cover that whole facade saying on the yes and is any thinking going to affect the existing plants on either side of the property no not at all no one thing that I was concerned about was that 18inch tree but we're definitely you know have discuss what we can do to um to make that not an issue we've done it before and we've been very successful because we're extremely cognizant of existing large [Music] trees well we're not taking anything out that's not on our property um um uh that I don't there's I don't really know what's there I there's they you know the tree is there but as far as other shrubs and things like that they'll they'll they'll be fine not everything no not every plant any other question yes Julie M um is this a garage here yes that's the and down here's a garage yes and I'm just wondering how does the car the vehicle maneuver in this area and how does this get protect that's not within yeah you got limit the questions to protecting the um if the cards back out how um are the shrubs or Tre please um be protected from the car um there's a fence on that wall so who can I ask the the to did I miss my opportunity you may have yes it was I just I think Miss meller addressed whether how the traffic work all right that's it thanks okay any other members of the public with questions the board members will close the public portion any board members with questions you said the root ball on the arbor writing that being planed along the uh between the two garages uh what is the size of those roof balls for those there like um the up front at the the lower ones are smaller root B they're they're PL we're planting them at 5 to six so I only have uh I have less than two feet so that root ball will be probably be about I don't know I would say 18 inches okay and then when you get down to where there's the two walls then I have more room I have three feet so what are you planting there so the arbor B it's all part of the same hedge but taller but yeah kind of I'll gradually take it up like I swoop it up so that it's a nice transition but I have the opportunity to plant a bigger Arbor there so I will uh I have three feet so it's a we're planning them at 10 to 12 so at 10 to 12 ariety is probably a little over two feet expand um you know they don't they really don't get that big and they have a lot of room to get deep it's not a root ball that it's not like a maple that's expanding out it's more of a shrub so it does not expand out it has plenty of room to grow in between those walls the compact thing on the arbor body being planted Belong by the pool yes by the cherry trees that M refer to yeah and do the cherry tree root structure does that spread out how does that they they do spread a little bit more but we have room over there to stagger the ariy we have room to move the ariy away from the cherries you know obviously when we look at it we're not going to um cut into her cherry tree roots we'll be cognizant of that yeah and you said you took into account the existing plantings that were on her property I took into account uh yes yes I did all the large trees that were marked okay and what about other bushes shrubs Landscaping there there's a lot over there we're not going on to anybody else's property so I was cognizant of where I put the plant material in relation to the larger trees but we're not taking out anything else that's over there I mean the larger trees would be the things that would have the root system that would be going into Mr Ewing's property and other branches that were going into Mr Ewing's property not the the landscape shrubs uh none of the plantings that you have proposed will cause have to be maintained from anybody else's property no what about like this said the arbor body is going to be made in the HED is that just around the top or yeah it just it stays pretty tight so you cut it on the top and then yeah they're not going to have to it's not a spreading shrub it's a fairly compact tailor TR I don't know how else to put it I could just to comment I've sat on this board for a number of years and sat on other boards in other towns that's this is the most extensive Landscaping plan I've seen okay by far thank you thank you okay um any other questions from board members wa no questions no I have nothing okay Mr chair I just want to um the the lady from 210 Mount kemell you will have an opportunity to address your question probably with the planner she know I'm talking we've closed the public portion um so unless Council agrees to hear that one we can reopen it sure we got okay ask your question my name is Carri Matthews I'm a res at 15 away directly facing the back of property um congratulations on rying to advance your home um but one couple things that hadern to it is uh the way my kitchen at the bottom bases the fact property if the house is getting up taller will there be have to be responsible to plant any trees to Shield any residence on the top looking down or would that be an issue of anything I let's see if maybe Celia is the landscape architect can address what the tree situation is in the back of the property um well everything that's in the back of the property is going to remain we're not taking anything out so I think you have a pretty um pretty dense uh Tree Line in there um I am adding uh a a maple and some viburnums um but besides that it's basically going to stay the same exactly as it is now and will be a little denser with some more shrubs in there to make it a more contiguous uh line across the back sure I don't think so I mean and you're a lot lower down there too so I mean you're pretty low and there's a pretty dense tree line right in there and um I I I can't see a house even in the winter question Mr chair if I may um you said that you want to plant a maple right yeah on the left hand corner yeah in the left hand corner and that wouldn't add any undue hardship to Mr 15 wins away I don't know no okay no other questions from board members if not we can go to the next witness uh Mr chairman the next witness was going to be Mr toia but I'd really like not he's going to take quite some time right and I know Qui time usually 10 or a little after and I don't think we're going to get to it took two hours almost to cross examination Mr Dorne and Mr to's testimony is really important to this and has a lot of Concepts I suspect we'll be a bunch in time with them I'd rather frankly not put him on tonight and just come back another night and have him get on um can I make a request um there a lot of members of the public and uh represented by Council um can we get Mr toa's report and writing ahead of time so that uh people have the opportunity to review it or digest it and then maybe have a better uh idea of what he's saying as as the testimony comes in I I kind of have a PLL Point outline of what he's going to do we can probably put together something not an official report for you know bullet point outline would that be okay with you yes thank you Mr okay and we'll have that 10 days before the hearing yes we don't know when that hearing is going to be yet but something tells me it's going to be down the road anyway I am gonna ask since we're providing Mr Ur with Point outline of our expert testimony if he has an expert if he could provide me with some head the what that testimony is going to be what's good for the goose is good for the Gand yes sir right um yeah we uh the the time between this meeting and the next meeting we have a a series of exhibits to upload so I think that will actually speed up the testimony of the sellers and we probably have one expert report that we can share please okay will that be a planner Mr uron Mr your be a planner um probably not no um no okay do you plan on calling a professional plan no okay okay all right you want to date Mr yes for the hearing [Laughter] the earliest that I could accommodate you is August August 26th and it's not the whole night and it's not the whole night you say the 26th I'm in Minnesota I'm in I'm in New Orleans I'm in New Jersey lucky me [Laughter] so then it's September we we carry this for purposes of notice to like the next meeting some between now and then talk about some other way to speed this up it started in December I know this board is busy and and I know the difficulties are that we could do that but I don't know what that's going to end up I don't either I'll talk to my client about another special meeting but it's a significant dollar amount yeah and and I'm not sure the board's G to be too happy to do that in the summer yeah I know but getting a quarum for that is is just it's just more difficult than the summer months that's all yeah nothing in July ju July is closed no meeting oh yes the meeting yes so the next one's August yeah yeah so that's September that will be September next I mean a special would be you know two weeks before roughly right before the September meeting if you looking middle of September so all you it would save you is two weeks and I don't know you're G to finish either because you know you have Mr toia who's going to take most of the night probably and then we have objectors who are going to have witnesses so you're Pro at least two more meetings at least one more well I think he's won by himself yeah yeah yeah I'd still like like CL meeting talk about whether there's any way to get get it's summer then we can't do it we always announce it again we could we could give it a run for sure yeah sure we can we can try but that you know right it's why we're missing to tonight right so our regular meeting is June 24 that meeting discussion right just for schedu just for scheding okay so for the members of the public what all of that meant is that this meeting is being adjourned now it will be continued on June 24th at 7 pm in this room with no further notice from the applicant but for the sole purpose of announcing a new continuing hearing date which will be sometime after June 24th right thank you very much everyone you're welcome we need any kind of extension uh we may why don't we extend through September that's where we were heading anyway get anything else okay yeah and just if there are new plans or something in the future 10 days ahead of time office double Che the numbers you got tonight yeah yeah yeah and um was something else oh the landscape plan yeah I'll make sure well not only emailed but I think there should be hard copies so that the board can have it okay I know you might not be here at the next meeting but the board May should still be able to look at it all right okay thanks you should you're not OB