okay we'll call the meeting to order call please M fesa present Mr kamsky here Mr danaro Mayor Morgan here Mrs Joffrey here Mr kogan here Mrs mcnight here let's salute the flag to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for it stands one nation God indivisible liy and justice for all Mr B council meeting state New Jersey adequate notice has been given in accordance the P 1975 CH 231 annual notice Sur rision was made in conformance with Section 13 of the ACT I need um for mental health committee I need a motion for Nathan Howell and candy maon so moov okay second second all in favor I no so be approval minutes for February 17th motion please so move second second all in favor I no so be here we have correspondence a board of adjustment um for Block uh 62 lot two um New Jersey American uh great change proposed uh fire department resignation of Andrew Sonet and we want to thank him for his service uh psng um changes to electric green programs recovery charge okay any uh comments seeing none we'll go to council business administration Lisa thank you mayor we've got resolution 2024 d87 this is a resolution approving request of the New Providence business Community to sponsor community events during the calend year 2024 um so the New Providence business Community graciously helps you know sponsor some of these events um we're what we have here is the summer concert series that's in um runs through on Thursdays in July in October we've got the downtown trick-or-treating which is on October 26th we have the street fair on Sunday October 27th and in November the holiday walk on the 29th of November okay I just ask Comm can I ask real quick on that the um fireworks show is going to be when again it's it's in the B has been sponsoring that on July 3rd so are we going to we're going to that's all good covered okay thank you that's on us okay that's on yeah that's on us this year advisory committee May thanks Al uh resolution [Music] 2024-the the application by New Providence public art committee for the summit Foundation Grant um so we are seeking permission to apply for a $155,000 grant um I believe as councilwoman bisa mentioned last time all the funding for public art comes from Grants and such uh so they're putting through to this Summit Foundation Grant um to apply for materials related to the um purchase leasing installation everything related to public AR okay okay and actually as an aside um the same Grant is going to be applied for by the mental health committee but we'll talk about that resolution next month okay okay Finance Dian thank you mayor resolution 2024-25 for additional Services related to the project known as digital and State Certified tax maps with GIS integration um this change order addresses additional services in conjunction with the professional land surveying associated with digitizing the Burrow's tax maps the state the state had significant changes um and comments on the maps uh and so this supersedes the original proposal and just a note it's still um a very good price related to the other uh the other bits that were out there resolution 20240 9 is a resolution authorizing payment of uh the bills payable list in the amount of 4,141 18623 significant items include the first quarter um open space and added omitted taxes for the county of Union in the amount of 3,541 183 um 133,00 $422 to Ben shaer Recreation which is the Lions Park playground um and that's paid with capital and Grant funds uh $3,333 for Rapid pump and meter and that's the final payment for wastewater treatment plant pumps and shafts and this is also paid for with capital funds and Johnston Communications um in the amount of 10 14,48 and this includes infrastructure upgrades needed to be compatible with the County dispatch and that's paid with um Capital funds okay we PE okay mayor ordinance 20242 is an ordinance granting renewal of Municipal consent to Comcast of New Jersey LLC to construct connect and operate or operate and maintain a cable television and communication system in the burough of New Providence Union County New Jersey this is a renewal of Comcast agreement uh that shall expire 10 years from the date of the expiration of the previous agreement I just need to say that that Council woman bisa really did a tremendous job leading this effort and and and going through all the due diligence associated with it um councilwoman is there anything else you'd like to add um yes thank you Pete I just wanted to also um shout out to the our team which consisted of me and actually Pete um our attorney uh Mr Rizzo Stacy Alex from the library Alex Menard Bob khar Brian jeffroy Jean mikanik and Mark Andre um we it was uh this the sorry I'm tongue totally tongue tied after saying Revolution um this is the success of a a council advisory committee right so we had a purpose we came together um will be formed again in 9 years from now to review the um to review this again so just just uh to give you a quick update um remember that cable is decreasing because of all the uh streaming services I think we did a great job with this um it's renewed for 10 years uh our franchise free fee has increased from 2.5% to 3.5% and we have a $225,000 grant um to meet the access cap capital needs so um all in all and it's very similar to other renewals in the area so all in all thank you so much to our team um they did a great job okay thank you Municipal Alliance Lisa thank you resolution 202 24-9 it's a resolution approving submission to the Union County division of planning for Grant funds for the municipal Alliance for the fiscal year 2025 um and this is awarding funding for uh 2025 um T this comes from the county it's it's actually the local advisory committee on alcoholism and drug abuse and and the County Board of County Commissioners um this year they're awarding $1,109 uh there will be some matching that will be involved and uh in kind match as well but that's uh 11,000 109 is what we'll be getting okay uh Public Safety uh resolution 092 and it's a uh resolution requesting the PBA 132 to sponsored the annual core show which will be on October 5th down at the pool from 8: to 300 p.m. and that's always a really good time uh and the raffle application for the same PBA uh R 1209 and that was publicly prepared and reviewed hope it works Alex thank you mayor resolution 202 24-9 3 resolution approving requisition r24 0 388 for Rapid meter rapid pump and meter Service Company Inc and the amount not to exceed $ 53,486 nothing we you just had c meeting so um thank you mayor I don't have a lot a lot um Board of Health were coming up Pete are you going to talk about uh Board of Ed okay uh uh Board of Ed had their uh teachers of the year and um I'm just going to shout out to them high school was Ben Ruben schme schme I never pronounced that correctly New Providence uh Middle School was Leah Bramley the awr was Lynn Kowalski and salberg was Christina Pachi um so congratulations to them great great people um we they just had the best meeting of the year so uh with all the curriculum Report with all of the um the everything that's going on so all the kids you know a bunch of kids came so it's great look online if you uh have if you've missed that and um I believe most of our sports teams are going forward in um in their playoffs um so I know definitely basketball and um the hockey team so great for them uh we had two kids at um wrestling States and um they didn't advance but they did well um The High School uh the Musical coming up which is always a great thing and fundraisers are going on uh soon for the schools like the the Tricky Tray and the spring flings and stuff so a lot going on um there um and that's about it okay M thank you Mr Mayor so planning board was uh was canceled so we didn't we did not have a planning board meeting uh this month um Capital review we had met initially to go through uh some of the capital projects and our fiveyear forward-looking uh project plan just want to mention um the pickle ball courts were one of the items that were there of course Paving roads and things of that nature uh so we're continuing to look at that and we'll have that ready for the finance committee esap uh community pool uh we had a meeting Alex and I um community pool leases up uh I believe at the end of April so we're just uh going through that lease and just making sure that uh there anything there are a lot of things that we did every five years uh last five years ago we did um we did look we looked with the pool on a lot of the programming that they do and things that the recreation does and and kind of work together and adding some things to the to the lease to make sure that they were you know um providing lifeguards or trainings or whatever things of that nature so there are some of those things that actually our community activities now already do so it may not be necessar to be included so we're looking at things like that um and lastly community activities just want to mention I think Lions Park is open right so Lions Park's open and uh I believe we'll be we'll be having a opening ceremony we use some Community Trust monies there I'm not sure I haven't Circ uh circled up without U uh next week so yeah so uh just wanted to mention that okay Pete nothing new to report mayor uh just very quickly I just wanted to report back on on the status of our U committee handbook um so councilwoman bisa has joined the effort and along with councilwoman mcnight and myself we sat down for several several hours last weekend um and we went through we started going through it um we should um we have another draft that we have to look at and then we're going to look to circulate that around Council to get their feedback and move forward from there so we are in progress with that and it's looking pretty good and we did go to Lions Park today to try it out and it's a lot of fun it came out really it came out really really nice how the slid me and Alex not this Alex the other Alex Alex and I went to the park he really enjoying it that's it for me oh nothing new to rep so this is what happens when you sit at the end like everybody covers your your stuff right so like I think I got everybody covered everything already but uh the library board did meet and as as we know every every time I sit up here I talk about the library um they're just doing a fabulous job over there really uh you know hitting away at their strategic plan a lot of that includes community outreach they've been really spending a lot of time with the different schools um different visits they've gotten the teachers to get library cards and really just drumming up excitement for the library they've been adding seating making it really comfortable uh they want to sort of Market it as the um Community your community living room so to speak so you can kind of sit for a couple hours read just make it homey and they're still working on the reconfiguration so if you go into the library you'll notice shorter Stacks round tables just looks more inviting more welcoming and it's evident by the number of people that are in there I mean no matter what when you go in it's just it's always busy it's always back which is awesome um the last thing I want to add let me see what else do I have on here um the last thing I just want to say is the community service Association uh pasta dinner and basket raffle is this weekend uh CSA works together with the Lions on this or the lies really does uh the bulk of the physical labor on this they do all the cooking uh the and the prep workor on that um but the CSA has been pretty successful and they've got 80 raffle baskets this is their biggest fundraiser of the Year all the money goes back into the community to help um our residents that need financial assistance and it goes to link um it just so there's so many good things um get so get to the pasta din 3 to 8 on Sunday at the dorso center okay uh just really quick mayor um the governor um gave his uh budget address today so we're anxiously awaiting for our numbers for our own budgets uh so that we can introduce um in March um we're hoping that we should get those numbers on Thursday traditionally they come out on Thursday after he delivers his address so that's all I have okay thank you okay at this time we have public comments anyone wishing to address Council yes C uh Kathleen Dolan 12 Laurel Drive um you just mentioned about the um Governor's budget and that that's an input into the budget for New Providence but I was just wondering if uh there will be what the timing around this will be as you said in March and I I just have the slide deck from last year it was March 28th so is there timing that the public can expect to see a draft um does the public have an opportunity to provide input into the budget don't know if I should be asking councilwoman bisa it's a same process as last year we'll introduce the uh the budget um there's a specific time I have in front of me uh we'll introduce the budget um and then I believe uh we had comments last time and then uh we at the subsequent uh council meeting to that then we'll uh approve it so there's an introduction count uh public can comment and then there's another time so it's two meetings okay I mean is there any idea about when that first meeting would be just to give people a heads up that if they want to comment on it they should attend um one of the two meetings in March and it will be listed on the agenda the the budget presentation will be on March 26 oh thank you okay um the other question I had is about the the re-evaluation that was talked about last year as to um people's property values and we haven't really heard anything about that yet so is there any news on thats we passed tonight was was related to tax maps so that you know talk about that sure so part of the reeval process is we have to update all of our tax maps they've been with our consultant Suburban Consulting for at least the last 10 months um every time they push out a product and send it to the state the state is sending it back with more comments so it's part of the resolution they passed today that the comments have now superseded what they anticipated so we're a little behind at this point but we are making progress towards it so we're hoping to probably go out sometime this year for a reial firm and then the timing will go from so it may not happen till next year it may not come until next year just because of the hold dep on the M on the maps got it okay thank you yes Michael hi it's Mike balber the pickle ball guy so first um I just wanted to bring everybody up to date uh refresh your memories um if you remember um we we the town converted one of the tennis courts into a dual purpose pickle ball and uh tennis making that would be two pickle ball courts right however and that means like eight people could play pickle ball at once four on each court but the group that I play with from the rec department we're all graduates of the rec department here and which is a good program by the way uh we've got about 16 to 20 people who come regularly is probably the overall group is somewhere between 40 and 50 but 16 to 20 they'll show up regularly so because of the number of people we don't have enough courts in town we play over at tatlock in Summit which wasn't a bad solution in the fall however as pickle ball is getting more popular here and I know as the rec Department's offering more sessions again summit's doing the same thing so people in Summit now are reserving the courts for themselves understandably so so that makes us really not having a place to play unless we go over to tatlock at some crazy time so what I'd like to suggest is that not to take away any tennis courts but to make two more of the tennis courts dual purpose so you know you'd still have five complete pristine tennis courts you'd have now two more pickable or tenants depending on the demand um I don't know I I I know there's permanent courts supposedly in the works but I know no construction has started at all on that so one thing I would like to ask in addition is if maybe the rec department could put out some kind of information as to where they are in the process so that so the community is informed because right now we're we're looking at we don't have a place to play we're not we're not seeing any permanent courts it's like yeah you actually just walked in right after I I spoke on sorry on on that it is part of our Capital review process of looking at monies that we're spending on everything Recreation wise and town wise and whatnot and we have already we had a initial meeting on that Cal review that goes done and it goes into the budget process um Bernard can talk more about where we are right now in terms of uh the overall process of of you know we have to engage our Engineers uh we have to first approve our Engineers to help design which we had already done right and then the next phase is approving them to go out to Bab um I I appreciate all that but my point is you know and I know it takes time Mike let me let me just introdu um so uh councilman uh is correct that it is part of the capital plan to add additional Courts Allison um has already done a purchase order to Line Court 7 um that was done in the beginning of February it's weather dependent until that happens oh really there already plans to line another Court yes I see again as pickle ball players we'd like to know that but but you don't have to come here you can pick up the phone call Allison any day and ask her and you see her most days anyway um so that's really more effective way so that you would have information faster than waiting for Council meetings yeah no I understand I'm just thinking you know I know the direct Department puts out their newsletters it might be nice to put out something and say well you know we haven't forgotten once happens it'll be out there but we're not you know yeah it's also it's it's a process right and we we can't go out to the public and say Hey you know we're going to build pickle ball courts you know we can we can tell you that we're working on it right we can give you information on the process all right but again first we we we've approved our Engineers to help design and now the next step is to to go out to bid so that's the next part of the process and then we get the bids we budget for it sure right which is we're also working on because it could be anywhere from it could be $100,000 a court to $400,000 we don't know right materials changed right everything like that uh so we're we're budgeting for it right we're GNA go out to bid on it we're going to receive those bids and hopefully they come back favorable right to and if they do come back favorable there potential to be additional courts that we may be able to put in right sure uh depending on the space obviously and things like that so it's it's a it's it's not easy to just say hey we got an empty field over here let's just go put a right so and we want to do it right right we want to make sure we're doing it one uh based on the demand for it mhm you know we want to put one in and we need two if we have space for two we'll put two in right if there's demand for it if the cost is right right if the it works within the budget right not everybody in the Providence makes pickle ball right so it's part of the overall you know budget for for all of our departments so if anything you know you've been well taken care of and as far as Allison is really gung-ho for it it's a great program in our in our Recreation as you said you graduated from the indoor process and now we're on well I'm still playing in it so I a grad I'm going to be playing in it for a long that I think but but yeah no it's it's it's definitely coming and and and honestly you know we also want to be careful of it costs money right so I don't know what the lining cost but it's thousands of dollars right so do we want to line a court uh or an extra court that we may not even need or are we just throwing money at something that we're going to actually have a better Court later so we may have to just wait a little bit so you guys going to have to just kind of hold on for a bit but it's a process and I believe me I think at the end of the day you're going to be very happy well I'm I'm really pleased to hear that uh apparently that seventh another uh tennis court is going to be made uh going to be lined because that's really you know you're right it's a huge investment for the town and I don't deny that um you know I I'm I'm personally I think most of the pickle ball players a dual purpose Court we're going to be happy with that you know it doesn't have to be anything real all fancy and we could save the town some money too so anyway but I appreciate all sorry I came in a little late I appreciate all the info though okay thanks thanks M anyone else Yes Man hi my name's Carol leonardson I live 58 Fairmont Road in town I actually have a handout um um to try to help me explain what my concern is um are you familiar with ecode 360 with what ecode 360 ordinances we have to every time we have a new ordinance we have to post it somewhere it's a I believe it's a law yeah and uh recently I uh had to go out to ecode 360 I was looking for the rules for when landscapers could start because we had had some concern in our street and so I I should probably hand these out to you I have one for each of you and I have one for burnt D who should I okay it'll it'll just walk you through because um so I was thanks great thanks so I guess when we have a new ordinance we have to post it within a certain period of time so that everybody is aware of those um but when I went out to ecode 360 for New Providence I noticed that there were well as of now 306 uh new ordinances that hadn't been applied to the code so when somebody wants to look something up um it it's kind of it's tough um and then I I looked around because I really wasn't sure what I was looking at so I was um looking at I probably went to 30 other towns and we kind of stuck out like a sore thumb because we have so many that are unapplied uh and then I said well what about towns that are less affluent like Elizabeth and Newark and Camden and they're all caught up so um this packet the first page is what I'm saying and the second page shows the homepage for the for New Providence ecode 360 and you can see that there's 306 laws that have been applied to the code so if somebody wants to look something up they got to go to the they got to go find the particular chapter and then they have to go to the new laws and try to dig through it and a lot of times there's updates upon updates and it's kind of tough for a citizen to have to figure this out Carol can I just jump in um we just we just received a quote from General code to up to codify all of the ordinances it's an $18,000 Bill we can't do anything until after the budget is is approved but it's on the it's on the docket for this year to actually update and codify all of those ordinances into one okay that's great that's my concern that's what I thought that that we pay a company to do this yeah we just did three time but it hasn't been done since 2005 she is correct it's been a very long time the project was started um and it's very interesting Denise and I were on a call with them on Friday and their way of doing doing it now is much more screenline where they used to hand you a book and you'd have to go line by line and actually go through and and take things out so um we we started the process with them and it never got to to the Finish Line If you will so this will bring us to the end and update Us by the end of the year okay great that's good to hear yeah I remember getting that book and had to take stuff out put stuff in yes I know it wouldn't be easy and I can see why it's going to cost 18,000 so thank you so yes thank you we're on it and I'm sure you can always call if you have a question yes as well make it 100% since the meeting is so fast uh Allan Swanson to 47 Overhill Road um I am going to bring up something uh at the last meeting I I couldn't come to the last meeting um but I watched the video and there was considerable talk about the affordable housing and there was a lot of talk about concerns about large numbers and that there was some confusion over the legislation and and what have you um and um I that meeting took place after the assembly had had passed uh assembly Bill four which is a major change in the entire affordable housing uh process and of course it's now pending in the senate for the senate senate bill 50 which is uh scheduled to be voted on March 22nd I suspect it'll be you know by the end of March um and um the reason I I came up is that I was concerned about the the I've been concerned about the negativity toward the the affordable housing issue actually for a number of years it's taken place it's been usually described in a negative fashion that it you know affordable housing is going to be destroy our traffic and and be a our schools and our wastewater treatment and and what have you and um I just simply don't believe any of that's true or has been born out uh and certainly I just certainly in in New Providence certainly we have not constructed one single um affordable housing unit since the agreement was put in there are plans Alan we were considered a good town as as we built over the years I'm not criticizing the town no you you you made a comment that we haven't put we have affordable housing all throughout the town people don't even know there you know okay perhaps you should let me finish and then I'm not criticizing the past I'm not criticizing your commitment to affordable housing what I'm just mentioning in general uh the perception of affordable housing across the state I'm not I'm not here to I'm not I'm not going to indict you for anything I have no intention of that okay I I came up so that to to clarify some of the issues that were brought up at the last meeting in terms of concerns and what have you and the numbers um but those again I think those concerns I don't think those concerns were about affordable housing and I think and that's that's where I think I'm not sure if you're trying to or or or trying to represent that we had a negative attitude towards affordable housing at our last meeting because we did not you know this is the problem I have not said anything about you being negative I have not said anything that you've done anything wrong I said overall there has been a negative watch meeting last week I and the negative yes I'm I'm just because it was a a a matter of discussion at the last meeting I just be clear it wasn't a negative discussion from our I understand that the only thing that was that that prompted me to come up is that there was an expression of some confusion over what the legislation was going to be and I thought you know given that there there was an opportunity for some time that I would come up and talk a little bit about what that what that is okay I am I have no condemnation of you zero condemnation of you thank you mayor Morgan will tell you that I have sat with him and I have said I think one of the most positive things that I've ever seen you do is the zoning process that you went through and the areas that you selected to to be rezoned for multi-unit housing I wrote the affordable housing um policy for this year club for the New Jersey chapter and a significant portion of that was that one of the best things to do was infill projects and of course infill projects are to take existing properties that have been developed and to put the affordable housing there thank you very much that's exactly what you did you did an excellent job of it you really did and as I say mayor Morgan I have pointed this out uh to him I've not I don't haven't had the opportunity to say so publicly but you're you're to be congratulated for that we don't have the issue that we encounter all the time in the Sierra Club at the executive committee meetings where people are screaming about this or that piece of farmland or wooded area is slated to be uh torn down or developed you didn't do that I mean I I I recognize that we don't have a lot of those kinds of areas in New Providence to begin with but you took advantage of that and I appreciate it all that I'm here tonight to talk about a little bit is um that uh I think that we need to be looking at this legislation that's pending as an extremely positive uh development in the process because uh there's a very broad Coalition of people who have supported uh this legislation um and it's interesting it's an interesting Coalition of people because it concludes um NAACP the fair um share Housing Authority um the habitat of humanity across the state and interestingly enough the league of municipalities uh they have been very positive about the Amendments that took place on A4 and are very positive about what the Amendments and the continuation of uh Senate bill 50 and solving a lot of the problems that uh were created in in 2015 when the uh Supreme Court took over the process I mean one of the one of the really great um aspects of the new legislation is the um implementation of a system for determining the obligations in M municipalities that takes into account what they call the Jacobs uh methodology which basically says exactly what in that policy that I talked about writing says that you need to be placing affordable housing in areas where there are jobs where there's Transportation uh where the where the facilities the infrastructure exist to support that housing that is how in the future under this legislation once it's passed the obligation of each town will be determined and each town will be able to have a greater role in determining that and then the process allows for appeals from interested parties as they say I don't know what that definition is but we'll find out um but I I all that saying is I think that we're moving towards a really positive um resolution of the Statewide negativity uh toward the the idea that affordable housing is a Bad Thing uh it's a good thing I mean we're we're basically identified as being over 200,000 units short in affordable housing in this state and this state unfortunately uh is identified as I in the top five of the greatest disparity in terms of housing uh income separation between those who are very poor and those who are very wealthy uh we just don't have a good record uh in that area and and we're in the top five also interestingly enough in um segregated schools um I I just I just wanted to you know I think that if we just look at this as a positive thing that we can move forward and if we're supportive of the of the uh additional amendments and legislation that's coming up I I think we're going to be able to really move forward in this state and uh make some positive changes and that's all that I really wanted to to come up and talk about and like I said I thank you you guys are doing great and that's why I came up okay thank you thank you anyone else wishing to address Council council meeting today faster than I anticipated hi Sarah erens 99 Crossroad uh so I don't have my husband and kids here today but I do fellow neighbors and and bro constituents have come here to support so thank you again uh my husband should be watching via live stream hopefully but um obviously the topic I'm addressing here is the hurricane Ida damage that affected the accessories to the storm burrow storm water system that goes through my property so in the council meeting on January 23rd after discussing and debating this matter uh it was decided that our next step forward was to have the burrow engineer come out to assess the the project with this particular question in mind uh is replacing the retaining wall the only way for the B to maintain the storm water system and fulfill its responsibilities if so there's an argument for the burrow to take ownership of the wall as per what burrow attorney Mr Rizzo had mentioned um so the burough engineer along with uh councilman kogan and councilman kisy had come out to the to discuss the damage of this project on February 9th um I do not believe that there's been any written response or opinion on the matter from the burough engineer yet um despite the FEMA deadline for the second appeal having been yesterday there was plenty of pathway or excuse me there was pathway for the burough to extend the deadline to FEMA and or extend the deadline for this second appeal to FEMA but the administration chose not to take action on this despite not having an answer to the question the engineer was supposed to answer which would have provided insight for a decision on an appeal it's my opinion all along that the strategy was to eliminate the ability for the burrow to appeal to FEMA and an attempt to try and make the problem go away so my family and I as well as our supporters and neighbors are Beyond disappointed it would have been a win for the burrow to have 90% of the project covered through external funding it's now lost to the Bur that the window of opportunity to file an appeal to Fe FMA is gone so now the B has you know doesn't have this uh 90% of the funding it's just disappeared um but the problem hasn't gone away and the liability for the burrow has not gone away the liability for myself as a homeowner has not gone away the safety issue is not gone away and I'm not going away uh as long as the problem persists which will be as long as this drags out and repairing these damaged accessories to the storm water system I'll just have to keep coming back discuss and persistently politely present to council to help and do the right thing so there's two main topics I want to cover besides what I just went through but one of them is regarding the unanswered question to the engineer now I'm certainly not an engineer um but I do not see a way for the burough to fulfill its responsibilities of maintaining the storm water system and all of its accessories without also replacing the wall and I'll Note accessories includes the fence which the burrow is is already uh state claim and ownership over but so I believe it's really impossible either take out both the fence in the wall or to replace only the fence and eliminate the wall I don't think either are solutions and I'll EXP explain um but I don't think either are solutions legally and in order to still fulfill the responsibilities of maintaining the storm waterer system so doing either of those options would leave around a 4ot wide steeply sloping ground between the concrete Channel and my house and asphalt driveway that runs alongside the entire damaged area so the legal aspect of this the buros easement area does not go all the way to the edge of my house and the driveway and if the burrow does not replace the retaining wall it will affect and impact my property outside of the easement area negatively so if the burrow just took out the fence and the wall or just the wall and put the fence back it would create that slope and is then impacting my property outside of the easement area I'm pretty sure the bur would not have the legal ability to impact or in any way modify my property outside of the easement area another point is that the wall really does serve as a flood barrier there are high levels of water traveling with intense velocity in the storm water system during heavy rain and flood waters and the wall serves as a barrier to the water and controlling the surrounding area from flooding it's debated whether this was the original intent of the wall in the first place but either way it's become a critical part of the storm water system over the years and another point is that really this this wall and fence combined really prevent land obstructions from entering the concrete channel the wall does that actually it's not the chain link fence certainly land would go right through it the wall prevents the soil erosion of the around 4T of land next to my driveway in the house from entering the Culvert and filling with sediment and if there's no wall there would eventually be enough erosion to pull in the large plants and asphalt from the driveway and concrete blocks and stone blocks lineing the driveway perhaps even parts of the house will spill into the Culvert at some point um so the wall really absolutely serves a purpose of for Effective maintenance of the storm water system uh in addition and this is a key Point too without both the wall and fence the area poses a big human safety risk and Hazard and that that really is the reason why that fence was put in there in the first place um it was documented planned for installed by the burrow at the same time the storm water system in the late 1960s was it was for safety uh it's on the other side of the Culvert it's on the other well on the other side the street on the other side where the water's coming in under the street so the fence is there in all four parts right and it's also why the Burrows maintained and repaired and replace sections of the fence several times when trees have fallen on it the burough is very aware that this fence is for safety since it replaced and installed a huge section around 60 or 70 ft long with higher fencing in 2014 to increase human safety so it reminds me again in mayor morg May Morgan's message that Public Safety is the Burrow's first and most important priority but it kind of pulls everything together to a question I keep asking myself and wonder or not asking myself but asking everyone else too it seems to have gone unanswered is how will the burrow replace its fence and therefore the storm water system or maintain the storm water system it's legally obligated to and and how will the burrow replace the fence without the wall there so I had also had an opportunity so another theme where topic areas I also had an opportunity to connect with Mr Rizzo on February 9th as well and I had one mean question for him at the time and it was in relation to the burrow taking ownership of the wall and really what the negative implications of that could have could be for the burrow as in why would the burrow not want to take ownership and get FEMA funding so Mr Rizzo confirmed as I expected and as I heard prior that anytime you take ownership of anything you're now responsible for it so if anything happens deterioration human injury property damage you're responsible so it's about assuming liability and responsibility and I understand that uh so the burrow already owns the chain link fence and has assumed liability and responsibility for it so if the bur takes ownership of the wall what additional increase in liability or responsibility is there for the burrow aside from what they already have for it already has for the specific area well there's the cost of the initial rebuild and replace so financial responsibility and the bur obvious obviously had the opportunity to provide proof it owns the wall and legal responsibility for the wall def FEMA but we're moving past that cuz that's out the window but it also I will note in a new contractor estimate I received it's the third one I've gotten uh and it the cost is only a fraction of a hyperinflated number that ID initially heard from the burrow two and a half years ago um and so for the record the three estimates I've gotten on the um are from reputable contractors who work with Engineers who uh and also specialize in large masonry construction prog projects as well uh the recent estimate was $21,000 it's way even lower than the ones I had two and a half years ago uh the burrow mentioned casually in the past that it thought the real amount for the burrow would have uh would have to pay is well over six figures and I've even heard multiples of that six fig number um at one point but but I don't believe there's any formal estimate for that hyperinflated number from the burrow at least I've asked for one there was none produced um then there's the point about liability and responsibility after the wall and fence is replaced so for maintenance with a solidly engineered concrete block wall with geogrid reinforcing there would be no maintenance of that wall needed I mean that thing will likely last for hundreds of years to come and actually I believe they're responsibility for the would probably decrease as there's less to maintain compared to what there is today and the wall would not need repairs or maintenance and the fence which seems to get repairs or replacement here and there when trees fall on it Etc um but it would likely need less maintenance than it has historically over the past decade or so and for liability I really do have a hard time seeing how the burrow is taking on any additional liability certainly with the failed fence the burrow has a lot of liability right now um but with a solidly built wall and fence and the bur taking ownership of the wall I think there would be no additional liability other than what the burrow had with offence prior to the disaster in the first place okay I think y we understand and you you know we've talked hours about this okay I'm going to I'm going to give it to to Mr Rizzo because he's the Atty and uh he's gone through this uh but I I think the basic fact is it's an easement and we can't use taxpayer public funds on private property well not for private property purposes that's that's the point of this um I I did go back after your last appearance um found a little more history to it and just to go through uh from what I found some of this information I wasn't aware of at the time hurricane Ida happened September 1 of 21 one M you were in ch in touch very quickly with public works I think the deputy director of Public Works within a week he had advised you that it was not the Burrow's responsibility um of course you disputed that uh not long after that the construction official weighed in he did some research and found that the Culver had been constructed in 1966 there were some construction plans none of which included a retaining wall your house was built in 1972 and most likely as he put it uh the wall was constructed for that purpose for when your house was constructed uh the then engineer and the hyppolit of cers uh concurred with that opinion uh you then retained legal counsel Miss Alonso who served the town with a notice of intent to make claim or Pur Su in November 21 she claimed or she put forth in that claim uh that you were seeking $50,000 and possibly more from Town's insurance carrier um for you to repair the wall now to me you don't ask for money to repair something if you're not recognizing that it's yours to repair and that's what Miss Al fonso did our insurance company ultimately rejected um the claim and Mr fanto didn't pursue anything further as far as that legal claim um in the meantime you as it indicated you had applied to FEMA they gave you $158 I believe it was because they said there was no damage to your house you appealed um they denied the appeal after about five or six months at that point you prevailed on the town to make an application which the town did this is in 2022 um and you know now this is just all history we all know FEA denied it um because we don't own the wall uh we appealed it at your request um the appeal was denied now you're you've been asking you wanted an extension Etc and and I should indicate in the interim Uh Kevin Boyer in jeric colar evaluated uh the situation indicated the wall was not necessary for the drainage system um we had Miss rafy uh go out now a third engineer and look at it um Miss Rafi is of the same opinion as Mr Boyer and Mr hippol let so that's now three Engineers that had said the wall doesn't serve a purpose for the drainage system uh you want us to take a fifth swing at FEMA and it's just feudal um we're not going to do that we we're spending a lot of man hours and money of taxpayers um I know you talk about liabilities and legal responsibilities and the world is simply not our legal responsibility um and we cannot be using taxpayer money when it's not our property serving our purpose and I understand you disagree with that and I respect that but that's the conclusion and I think based upon my opinion the opinion of three Engineers that's why we're not seeking an extension or intending to do a further appeal and we're not going to be able to do anything with this wall so the appeal window is gone it is yes that expired yesterday so that's not what I'm asking I realize that and I don't believe so the question that the burough engineer was supposed to answer based on the conversation from the January 23rd um committee meeting or council meeting is that is is replacing the retaining wall the only way for the buau to maintain the storm water system and fulfill its responsibilities no it's not I I don't know any other way to answer that question I mean she said what the other two Engineers has said that wall does not have anything to do with the buau maintaining its responsibilities as you put it with the drainage system she has indicated that she was never going to give a formal report I know you referred to a report but that was was not what the intention was she has expressed her opinion again echoing that of Mr Boer and Miss Hipp Mr hippol that the wall does not have anything to do with the Burrow's purposes in terms of that draining system so yes the wall is not part of the concrete Channel but it's it's not just that it's not part of the concrete Channel they their opinion is it is not necessary for that trage system so in the 1960s the burough engineers and whoever was involved in the Contracting of the storm water system obviously felt that the fences were part of or necessary and needed and part of to to enable the proper functioning and flow of the storm water system I know that my understanding is that Mr Johnson put in the fence at I don't know if it was your request or someone else's request but I don't know that that fence was put in in the 1960s as you say it's on the surveys and it's part that doesn't mean the town had put that in at the time well the fences are pretty old so they they look like they've been yep and the fence was there in in 2014 and then it was is quite low and served a safety issue and Hazard and so at my request the burrow had put in a much higher fence uh replace the whole section as I mentioned so the fence obviously does serve a purpose for this system as it was intended in the 1960s so regardless of the wall itself like and who put it in or what the intentional or original purposes I still don't know if I have an I still don't have an answer as to how the burrow is going to replace the fence the burrow I don't believe the engineers have even given any indication that that fence is necessary either okay so if the fence is removed M it presents the problems I mentioned before well you say that but I said we've had three Engineers look at it and nobody has expressed that opinion and again we've had this conversation for that's an engineering opinion not a legal opinion y but you know you because we we've had the opinion as to the wall it seems to me you're now moving on to argue about the fence it's everything sorry so we Al councilman kogan and myself had a conversation today with uh Andy Hipp okay um unaware that we were that you were looking for a written you know document uh and and we asked him to to prepare something okay which they he will do uh and be ready for our next council meeting okay uh and and what he's going to look at is at pretty much everything you know uh was just mentioned one of the things he mentioned to me was in terms of the fencing for in today's terms wouldn't even be allowed like they wouldn't if they wanted to put offense in EPA wouldn't allow it right so um so he's going to look at that right he's also going to look at everything in terms of the structural issues uh you know whether or not it's it's something that is is important to the to the Waterway Etc so we'll have something official you know written up with that and and we'll learn a little bit more about at least I will I mean uh about you know that structure I know you mentioned costs right so even speaking with him about costs you know if it was something that the burrow was to take on um there are a lot of different things that require the burrow to do probably a lot more things than a private homeowner in terms of that type of a foundation or that Ty of retaining wall that close to a foundation things of that nature so well I'm going to ask him to also you know talk a little bit about that as well so um and so it it would be most likely more than a sixf figure OPP you know uh expense for for something to burrow or to take off um I don't I don't have any specific details other than you know uh the communications with with Mr hip so we'll have that I think by the next council meeting for you so at least we'll you know have a little bit more information in terms of all the structural stuff I know I personally came out there because I wanted to see it uh I also wanted to and I still do want to you know work with our engineers and yourself to and Council to see and the mayor you know what we can do if anything to help you know make this you know the best possible outcome we we can for you and and you know for the safety of the neighbors right and for you know the community LGE so um you know all I can promise you is that I you know we'll continue to look at this we'll look at this we'll we'll come back to you we'll talk a little bit more about what if any options are out there and what we can do to help you uh you know to to you get to a good place I appreciate that and I don't know Mr hippolite who is he he he's he's the he used to be the Burrows engineer okay and now he runs the company well like Kevin and Marie both work for to okay got it in call yours okay yeah and whether it was a a formal written report or not I mean I wasn't sure what to expect but I guess I thought like I'd see some sort of communication on the matter from Marie on this but um so I don't know exactly what she said or who she said it to or anything of that nature but it would be good to get an official response of some sort is to you know answering that question that keeps getting proposed and and also like how would the burrow replace the fence and and even if they didn't like how would how would that work you know I want I I I want see I want ANS okay I think that as Matt mentioned earlier the surprising comment not surprising for me but that today's laws and codes you would not be able to put fence in and that that was a lesson learned for me the town wouldn't be able to build right so it's true according to the flood Hazard act um the type of fencing required is not chaining I mean it's required to not use a chain Ling f it has to be other types of fenes but in speaking with the Department of Environmental Protection the Union County engineer um where all the permits have to go through she has said that um and I've talked a bit with her about this uh and I said well what about the fence would it have to be she said um because it was built before 1980 it could be replaced with ink kind like so it could be replaced with chainlink fence technically yeah the those are the things I wanted I want to see in a report yeah in ter of or maybe not even so much in a report but you know in terms of just talking with the engineers and and our Administration and and options and all that okay but I do want you to understand by I'm going through this with the engineer it's costing us a lot of money you know it getting all these things over and over again is costing the burrow a lot of money the taxpayers a lot of money so you know I you know I I go by what the uh the engineers and what our legal council said you know true and I know you understand that I mean I know Mr Rizzo talked about that he's not opposed the burrow taking legal responsibility and liability for this it's really up to council to determine no no it isn't it's not up the council it's it's private property and it's not up the council to take over private property like that well you wouldn't necessarily be taking it over that's what youris we do you're asking us to take ownership of that and there's no way we can take ownership uh I mean there I think there's two things I mean one I'm I'm happy to assign ownership of that area of the property to you guys any time but I don't think you're going to do that I think it's more that you know within the easan area is which is the right is not an ownership I get that um but there's a storm water system that the burough does have legal responsibility and ownership of right like I said you know I I bent over backward to try to do what we can do to try to help you out here we've gone through a lot of minations and a lot a lot of money tens of thousands of doll and you know sometimes the answer is just we can't do it and you know uh the council people want to go through this and spend that kind of money again and get the same answer it's but you know I just uh I feel for you I really do but you know I can't spend taxpayer money on on private property and you know that's fine it it just it opens up the burrow to a lot of different uh scenarios especially down so I mean I understand that the the whole idea of precedent but they're really and certainly the burrow has other easements within the in the burrow like there's other easements for sure right to get to something to like clean out sewers right clean out a brook it's only to clean the things out okay that's all it is well this easement in particular was to build construct maintain repair rebuild it's all in the deed so but it's it's specific the storm water system it's not saying like hey you know we can also I don't know cut out land and and whatever but um you know there's there's really no precedent I don't believe being set here because there is no other situation in the burrow that is exactly like this no there is with a retaining walls supporting a fence people who they have erosion problems so I mean this is where we're getting into it and you know I I just I don't want this to morph into something else and I could see it coming down the line that it will and I have to protect all the taxpayers in the town you know as much as I want to help you I guess it gets to a point where you know if F's not going to pay for it well the burrow took away that opportunity right well not really I mean we appealed we we did everything it's not our property we canot say that a piece of property is ours when it isn't well the whole star monor system is not your property in that area it's within my property so of course you can't claim it's your property right or the burrow can't right that's why we have an e to clean it out right but it's but it's bro's storm water system but but we we went through this you know a couple Friday nights ago I don't want to go through it again I I think that Mr Rizzo laid it out the best he could so Mr is didn't you tell me you weren't opposed to the burough taking legal responsibility not why that's not my position uh in terms of my my responsibilities so no I don't make a decision but I provide advice and recommendation and discuss the legalities so that's that's to councel yeah I mean our hearts go out to you everyone of us want to help you out here but we've come to the end of the road I think I think so too and you know if they're not going to do it I sent you to Congressman Kane's office and what they do they punted it back to us and saying that there's really nothing you can do so I don't know what more we can go um I I guess what you can do is just take ownership of it in the sense that like it's part like how like I don't want to beat a dead horse but fact you own the other side of the uh the Water way you actually own the other side too but the fence is the Burrows right I I don't know that don't know but we do know that because the buroughs claimed ownership and responsibility over it I don't know that is there any record of that it's in this it's in the 1960s map built their houses it was it's in the maps before that but the building could have put their M no I think it's in the plans for the storm water system from the 1960s uh I you know that tonight's a focus on the fense you know the go the line keeps moving so I don't know enough about the fence to be C it's always been a question no it really has it has I've asked it several times we run into a dead end on one topic or issue we're moving to something else I don't have any answers to the fence because that really hasn't been the focus um that I can say at this point it's it is all I have presented this question multiple times though like how would the borrow replace it def fence I think I presented it last year I didn't know that Mr Hipp was going to do a report I I think when you get that that should said more light on the subject okay okay thank you okay thank you appreciate your time I appreciate the support and comments okay anyone else wishing to address Council seeing no one I declared a public hearing closed um I need motion for items 1 through n please move second Lo call please Miss fisa I Mr kamsky hi Mr justno Mrs jaffre yes Mr kogan yes Mrs MC yes okay motion so move second all in favor I no so thank you all for coming tonight