okay let's call to order this meeting of the new HR board classification subcommittee attending the meeting are Tracy blaz found administrator Mark kman John Ferrara Anthony antio Lyn PE thank you all we have a quorum uh we believe that Chief Fisher will be joining us momentarily but given that this is a meeting call for four let's get it kicked off we are here for the purposes of reclassifying the treasurer collector position I'm assuming everyone's had an opportunity to read through the job description and formulate any thoughts questions or observations they may have Tracy thank you as always for joining us as the hiring manager hi Chief sorry I'm late it's all right we'll give you a second to get squared away here you don't look like you usual no fish has joined us for the purposes of video here and I was just about to ask uh Tracy as the hiring manager to give us the uh you have a two-minute tour bear in mind this is a position that was last rated in 2012 and I think it's fair to say that much has happened with the roll since stand in terms of disal responsibilities and thought as always we'd like to hire manager just to give us the two-minute tour sure while we're here and maybe highlight some of the changes in the role so that we can accurately reclassify sure thanks um so thank you and U first I wanted to mention that uh sorry that um you know I know Diane usually does this so if I miss step there at all let me know um I'll try to live up to her expectations but um it takes a village it does indeed so um um you're you're right it hasn't been uh reclassified in many many years and the role has evolved pretty significantly since um it's its last review what was strictly um a Treasurer Collective position basically you know reconciling bank accounts collecting taxes and you know just those all the tasks that go along with that has evolved more um in in particular it takes on a much stronger HR role um HR has become much more significant in new we we really never had anything that would would um look like an HR physici or an HR department it was each manager kind of took on a little piece of that role themselves obviously um you know some of you being in that field you know it's changed significantly over the years um so we've tried to bring some expertise in house and we've done that with training um education um and Diane has both Diane and I have taken on that role and she has been there my partner really since the beginning um now um that treasury function because payrolls rest in that office it it kind of goes hand in hand with a lot of the benefits of ministration um providing benefits counseling whether it's for people who are retiring or on boarding or leaving for reasons that you know aren't happy reasons we there are so many things that we have to go over with people in terms of health insurances benefits unemployment benefits um the the retirement system how that works so it that probably has become the single biggest additional component to that function but in addition to that we also um we've also kind of grown up a little bit so we do things now that we never used to do in the past things like cash flow projections that wasn't something that happened um in Newbury we've um implemented uh well actually we've established policies relevant to invest Ms the the Investments that the the treasurer can make we didn't really have any guidelines now we've established policies relative to OPAC the way we're going to invest our uh post-employment benefits that employees are eligible for so it's you know I think with any of us all of our jobs requirements change laws change um but that particular function has taken on a lot of additional highly highly responsible um administrative tasks so it is addressed in some of the highlights as we go through the job description it talks about um I think the third bullet down talks about cash flows and then talks about um interactions with departments too I will tell you back in 2011 2010 it was a different operation everyone was kind of an island so each each departmental function would perform their tasks in kind of um c c for sure and um it's much much different now with and it's so much better with these interactions so now the accountant and the treasur are meeting frequently to reconcile balances the treasurer uh the tax collector piece and the assessor work constantly he builds it she collects it they they work in concert I I Know Chief you you're down there all the time we do with grants so when I have um let's say I have a grant that covers payroll issues and that's coming out of a certain um like expense line item there's a a mirrored Revenue line item that when I submit for reimbursement for particular grants it comes in through that that goes through um that department as well so I need to confirm um so it's a three-way communication between the accountant the treasurer and myself for each grant that I have to make sure the money that I spent out is being reimbursed properly into the proper account so it's a it's a three-way Comm constant communication um for each and every individual grant that I run that that revolves around reimbursement and and that's that's new to Newber as well so um uh Town's Investments are on here under the treasur collector um duties and responsibilities um also on the second page um serving as the custodian for tax title accounts for closure proceedings um again 10 years ago we had a very signific different um picture here um in terms of uncollectible balances now our collection rates are around a little over 99% uh um but there's a lot of work lot of policy development that went into those things um that did that just didn't happen they weren't tasks that were performed in the past um and also uh well the last bullet talks about policies so um it the level of responsibility has definitely changed just as an overview I know that meeting with Diane from time to time I know she's talking about you Cobra issues other insurance issues having to deal with Maya on a regular basis things that my guess is prob weren't happening eight or 10 years ago so not the the role has grown considerably and I I think Society too HR issues have been higher um liability or litigation issue for private businesses and public sector I think it's is more than it has been ever before have question agree thank you Tracy yep all right before we kick off here any upfront questions if not we'll get right to the first Factor clarifications needed not okay uh as always um Tracy allow us to ask the occasional question from the board to get things clarified or just make sure we dig in a little bit to understand uh couple of things that we always talk about at the beginning we always are careful here when rating these positions to to stay away from what we call outliers uh those being you know the one-offs where somebody may have a responsibility once or twice a year to do something whether it's you know supervis additional staff or be involved in some activity that isn't typical regular normal activity and we try to keep those away from the equation uh thinking that uh they would not be fed of the system to to rate it is that happen all the time the other thing we do at the very end is is look at things like um the recruiting process what what might the town of new re look at uh if we have to replace this individual how readily available is the candidate pool is the position rate a a 16 or a 17 or an 18 or an 18.1 or two or three depending on number of factors including what the what the likelihood is of being able to find somebody to fit the bill here or do you have to go to the ends of the Earth to identify folks so so those are some of the things we look at during the process here mhm okay first Factor complexity this Factor deals with the tasks performed the Judgment necessary to perform those tasks and make decisions uh along with problem solving that are required by the position refers to the use of knowledge and experience in making these decisions uh a one would be a highly repetitive role uh where there are very few simple tasks decisions are really required limited to task performed a two would be very routine work consisting of a wide variety of tasks along with standard procedures that may be the occasional exception and uh this person might make a recommendation that affects tasks or could change outcomes a free is a somewhat complex role uh where somebody would be assigned projects that require some analysis and plan exceptions are analyzed and resolved By changes to standard procedures and technique excuse me techniques a four would be a complex role that may require modification of existing procedures or the development of new methods analysis and planning are an integral parts of the position exceptions require in-depth analysis and are resolved By changes to administrative and Technical procedures a five would be a highly Diversified and complex role the work would involve planning analysis and coordination of other departments or other activities uh this individual would make decisions where in some cases established policies are inadequate and might recommend changes to establish policy a six is a policy formulation role where this person would be solely responsible a primary responsible for broad policies and long-term programs um makes decisions service guides or directives for the town Tracy your thoughts here so um this one I put in as a five um it's constant planning analysis um interrelated activities that's kind of what I was talking about how you're functioning you're meeting with assessors accountants police Chiefs Town administrators on a constant basis um so I thought that one was kind of easy to to read for me thoughts questions i' agree with the five I agree with that I think you clarified for me the policy piece because that was my question is she kind of just approving policy is it like you and her coming up with policy or now that the policy is in place it's just her job to kind of make sure policy is followed so I would have had it I had it between a five or a 5.5 depending on what the policy role was John Cony any thoughts yeah ability to motivate analyze strong knowledge I mean that's you're right you've got a lot of facets to uh to be on top of daily weekly and then all of the annual complexities and there has certainly been a lot of if not a policy establishment by this individual uh there certainly has been a lot of of requirement to make sure that new policies get put in place but they're implemented appropriately so pH it relates to you know crossing over various departmental lines you okay uh if there are no other thoughts uh let's take a vote and why don't we start at that end of the table I'll say five five five five five it [Music] is next factor is education straightforward a one is a junior High School High School uh up to grade 11 a two is a high school graduate a three is formal training Beyond high school diploma but not necessarily a bachelor's level or or college degree four is completion of a 2-year postsecondary a college degree or perhaps Technical Training of of similar nature a five is a bachelor's level degree and a six is a Advanced Graduate Studies I believe the job description describes it as a bachelor's level degree and Tracy you say that's a pre represent as opposed to just a preference is that correct it's a we require it okay that's the case it would bring it in as a five I believe easy five five easy five easy five yeah let's take an official vote on that uh if you'd like to kick off Lin five Tony five five five five five it is thank you all next factor is experience considers the time required to develop a necessary skills and expertise to perform the job duties and responsibilities how much time does it required to learn the essential techniques and skills required to perform the job effectively experience is defined as the length of time required to acquire the minimum skills when assessing the required amount of experience consider the complexity of the issues faced and the amount of judgment exercised generally the more judgment exercise the more experience required the job description I believe has it as a three a minimum of five years of progressive responsible Municipal Finance experience the preference being 3 to 5 years in a treasur collector's role but in terms of the overall experience you have it as a five five years five years which was a four that would bring it in as a four four is a four rating is four to six years of relevant experience questions thoughts let's vote Tony it's a solid at least a solid FL John I think as well I have it as a four four four for it is thank you next Factor independent action or initiative independent action refers to the initiative required to perform the duties and responsibilities of the job effectively this Factor also considers the creativity and original thought required by the job and the amount of Direction and control received from supervisor or by standard practices and precedents before we get into this I just had a quick question um each on the job description I was a little bit unclear I was Fuzzy on it it says the position reports to the Town Administrator SL assistant Finance director so the way um our operation is set up I'm I'm the finance director the town account is the town accountant assistant Finance director okay so the chain of command goes from the treasure collector up to the accountant assistant Finance director after meeting okay so day to day week to week this Ro the the reporting would be to the accountant assistant Finance director position and then to you and then Okay Okay the reason I ask is because later on of the job Des deson the third bullet item it says develops and implements the town's cash flow plan in coordination with the town accountant slf Finance director should that be assistant Finance director that's what I was confused that's right which one third bullet item here I think oh yes so if you could just when you have a chance change that to assistant Finance director otherwise it do make sense yeah okay any other questions before we kick off the discussion no good gra yeah okay one is an individual who works under close supervision receive detailed instructions and procedures either verbally or in writing there is no latitude to make changes in work refers all but the most routine questions and problems to the supervisor a two this individual Works under less frequent supervision work is defined by standard practices and established procedures this individual prioritizes tasks and decides if additional information is required this indiv idual might occasionally make decisions on the setup of work on his or her own but refers all significant problems or concerns to the supervisor a three Works under occasional supervision proceeds on his or her own when a majority of the duties are defined uses initiative on Ingenuity to identify potential problems and conducts research to determine a viable solution a four Works within general direction and guidance plans and carries out plans and activities to obtain definitive objectives excuse me definite objectives applies policies or standards widely accepted within the occupation of the profession the assignment may involve creative work and or innovation a five this individual will work independently on General assignments plan and Carry Out broad assignments of a major department often involving other related activities this individual would also take action without reference to supervisors except when policy changes are required major Investments are involved while long-term programs are affected and a six this person would work very independently in a wide range of administrative and policymaking activities would plan and Carry Out major programs and plans for the entire town employees work is checked only through consultation and agreement with others typically does not receive Direction on a regular basis Tracy what's uh what's the typical so I kept going back and forth between four and five and I land on a 4.5 we can do that it works out way we split the boates before wouldn't be the first time okay why is that well because um you know everything in number four clearly it it meets all that criteria um in number five as well except action generally isn't taken without some reference um disappears in particular policy changes and those types of things so there is a lot of consultation involved in that position it's not completely independent when it comes to those things um so that's why I kind of put it right in the middle there thank you thoughts questions I had the same I had a 4.5 as well I did too it speaks to uh to uh less supervision and and more consultation and and that brings it to 4.5 and I you're dealing with 1 two three four departments intimately all the time including your house and then all of the individual acts she has to take or he has to take and the element goes forward 4.5 other thoughts before we vote let's take the official vote John 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.5 thank you we are a very agreeable bunch here today unusual I shouldn't say unusual end not halfway through okay consequence of errors this Factor assesses the likelihood and the probable effect of errors on the job and it considers things like who is affected is it a unit within the department is it an entire department is it the town or could it include the public the extent of losses to the town which could result from inappropriate decisions or judgments a normal rather than an extreme error however the possibility of serious consequences and how easily is the error corrected a one errors are readily detected virtually no cost or impact at best they're minimal errors are easily corrected and may cause a loss of credibility just to the individual a two errors are probably detected by others within the work area errors may result in brief delays in services or completion of tasks it could be slightly slight loss of credibility to the unit of the department the cost may be somewhat noticeable as materials are replaced or equipment that doesn't relate to this position this position so that's fine a three errors affect the work of others but are generally not damaging to the town error ER are detected and corrected before they become serious errors could cause loss of significant amount of time correcting the errors or could delay succeeding or related operations such as the validity of Records data reports Etc errors may have an adverse impact on the public and our public relations a four errors cause substantial identifiable losses uh losses to the time Beyond damage and waste as the result of inadequate planning may cause substantial delays in services and programs identifiable deterioration in public and employee relations errors may result in physical injury resulting in loss time a five errors cause serious short-term breakdowns they may cause serious delays in services with uncoordinated efforts or shortage of Parts components not related here may cause commitment or withholding of funds inadequate analysis or for planning prior to a major decision a six errors may cause long-term negative consequences to the town may cause terminal losses with little opportunity to correct the error once made except over a long period of time and a great cost it may cause major loss of department or town Prestige because the results became public may cause fatal or incapacitating injury I don't think we have to wor about that this one Tracy I really struggle with this one because the the listings like some of the things you said in number six are are impactable you know it can create upset it can have political consequences if you know we go to borrow and we borrow the wrong amount of a bond if we're not paying real careful attention if um you go to collect taxes and you make a significant mistake on the bill which which happened I guess once here years and years and years ago so the bills all went out wrong that you know things like that they there are some significant consequences but then there are other items listed that just don't make sense for this position so I ended up landing on a four but I'm not really confident in that I guess I should hold my thoughts until we go around the room but yeah cuz some of the other ones just don't make sense for this particular position um so I'm not sure how to there was no question that the degree to which this individual is responsible for public Outreach or at least Public Communication and and the likelihood of that deteriorating as a result of judgmental errors in uh real estate pay taxes and you know other other similar kinds of personal to folks for foreclosures right things and also when you when you consider the human resources element that we've been discussing here Cobra benefits and and um you know other uh you know payroll issues uh there's a lot of meat on this bone uh the question is to what degree does it influence the the town's credibility and reputation uh the departmental reputation yeah so when I was thinking about it for a lot of them right there's a partnership so payroll issues like you said for example there's a partnership I have a big payroll with different accounts right there's a partnership between her and I where if she thinks I've made a mistake it's she calls and says hey did you do this and I say no because that one's a contract or this one isn't we so there's a discussion before it goes out but I agree with you with the taxes and the foreclosures I ended up with a 4.5 saying most of it is four but the ones that are in the six are are are big serious oh yeah so so that's why I bumped it up to up the half because of the the things that don't fall in between the four and the six don't fall but things that I know you know what I mean that do fall in the six if there's a mistake right it's a big deal and it's on her you you know what I mean or him or whoever the position is but so that I gave it a half a point for those six pieces can I just clarify we talked about Chade of command earlier or orot I should say um what's the likelihood that an error in judgment or in mathematics you know in any of these UH responsibilities is then caught by either the town accountant or you in advance of it becoming an issue we have a lot of checks and balances um many things like the real estate tax bills I mean we have the Assessor's eyes on it we have the collector's eyes on it um so chances are something gets caught before it gets absolutely but then you know we can do all those reconciliations but then you've got to enter it and send it so I mean yeah you could it could happen I'd like to say it never will but know could happen I was thinking more for but I understand the but if you take my example with payroll if you have someone in that position who isn't asking the question back to the department head before they hit submit right then I've got a big problem when someone comes to me and says their check is wrong and now we need to reconcile and all you know and all of the work that kind of goes into that independent thinking right and that is this m or is this ours kind of mindset you know what I mean where it it takes takes the Judgment you know to know to pick up the phone and call the person who just gave you the payroll to say is this weird I don't know I I still think of four you know um I think that Finance well tax collection and HR um are pretty siloed you know I mean Tracy your position is overarching and um there are checks and balances and there's a lot of integration and um Team team work Partnerships things like that but um I I am holding with a four I mean I certainly can be swayed to a 4.5 but um I think that HR and uh tax collection is pretty siloed you know when you can fix payroll errs you know pretty easily you know I mean if it's Downstream if it's gone on for a year and you have to recoup you can still fix it you know whereas um that probably will not have a big negative imp impact or implication for the reputation of the town or the town's finances you know um you said what you gave an example as um issuing debt um bonds yeah yeah and so some of those things might go through and it take some work to get it corrected you know but still it's in this bucket right like if you make a mistake um you know chances are there's going to be some um impact on our reputation than you know because of the financial implications or the Personnel implications you know things like that yeah I think that uh any one of these uh you look at at at a 1 or 20 or whatever uh you you can come up with scenarios where you see oh my God she said what or she did what you know you're not going to stop there I mean because this this is um the uh you know what would what would some of these errors you know cause down the line so for me stopping at a four it really doesn't make sense because she has the ability to go forward uh with with these portions of of the job and I should I think it it it does require a little more rather than saying oh you know we goofed so you know let's let's create the situation we can resolve it or say you know this is our responsibility so so what would you give it uh I would I would give it probably a solid five okay maybe I underestimate my work right in HR I can fix that I understand I understand Tony I think the HR piece when I think the0 five I think the other stuff okay you know what I mean like I said the the putting taxes out the foreclosures the communication with all of that stuff that kind of goes with it that's really the side that my mind was on with those with the0 five was that kind of other stuff that goes with the finance piece in you know is it one-offs or does it happen more than a oneoff or you know a little more than a oneoff that's kind of where my head was but when it happens but she's working or the position is working in conjunction in conjunction with Finance yes and so Finance has the real responsibility I would think on those situations I I'm also thinking that that this given the the breadth of responsibilities in this role this is a position that touches virtually every facet of the community the public the administration it it stops on 12 bullets on these three pages custodial aspect and all of the Precision in those 12s that's required uh if there's not an enormous attention to detail and a rigorous capability to do that level of pecly difficult work U she it could be a landslide if if one thing happens after another so it's a Precision position with a lot of custodial requirement I I think there's just too many refined tasks and I I I circled 12 bullets on two pages where Precision is key and this precision and mistakes are a considerably close companion right but again the question here is to what degree do those mistakes impact well the time the department the public it can create employee population it can create a whole lot of discomfort uh especially benefits Administration aspect mistakes made there could require long periods of corruption and create a whole lot of litigation and litigation you don't want yeah okay but who is the who administers the benefits it treasure collector so do we who is the benefits administrator who's the plan administrator like is it you know United Healthcare is it Harvard Pilgrim is oh oh uh we have HMO blue New England product okay okay and so that's the plan and then local benefits Administration is this position yes so um so if I have a question about my um appointment with my PCP it is going to be covered who do I ask you would call Maya okay yeah you would call M okay okay let's let's go around the table and vote on it I think this where we may have something this where you jinxed us Mr this is where you jinxed us Mr Mr spoke too sure yeah I'm going to bump mine up from a four to a 4.5 I think that's the more I think of it I think Tony made good points and I think I was a little bit low so I'm going to say 4.5 I'm stay with the 4.5 I can do a 4.5 4.5 I would agree with that 4.5 okay good discussion thank you discussion [Music] next Factor contacts refers to the importance to the organization of the working relationships required of the position the contacts can be internal or external to the organization it may take various forms Face to Face Phone public appearances media uh this Factor also assesses who these contacts are the purposes of the contacts the importance to the town residents elected officials member of town boards appointees co-workers Etc interaction May cover a variety of purposes and complexity advising coaching disciplinary actions common courtesy is expected at all levels of course a one very routine within the immediate area no contacts Beyond office mates if you will a two routine with occasional discussions outside the immediate area frequently provides routine information to more than one source may have occasional contact with the public officials board members Etc a three frequent and important Beyond immediate Associates appropriate tact to discuss problems act as a resource person make recommendations clarify policies may have limited responsibility for securing cooperation regular contact with public town officials board members Etc some responsibility to persuade convince and secure cooperation a four frequent and important for the purposes of clarifying time procedures and resolving issues requires the use of interpersonal skill to clarify issues and to communicate clearly requires in-depth Professional Knowledge of the subject being discussed five frequent and important often around a topic of deep personal concern for an individual stakeholder a tax abatement compliance with state and federal regulations Etc requires advanced communication skills presentation skills resolution resulting in the stakeholder feeling respected and heard even if the ultimate decision goes against the stakeholder's personal interest six contacts are vital to the viability of the town the manner and handling of matters that are important to a wide variety and often unaligned group of stakeholders represents a major consideration in the performance of the of the duties contacts require constant maintenance and development to avoid being blindsided by important financial and reputational decisions I gave that one a 5.5 okay again the nature of benefits Administration tax payments um forclosures I will tell you that fewer and fewer people are actually making a physical trip into town hall to to um Interactive conducted transactions a lot of them are being done online now but those people who do sometimes they're not always coming in to tell us what a great job we're doing especially if you're coming in with tax bills with interest on them late payments you know things that were maybe lost in the mail and um that office um is one of the office that Fields a lot of a lot of angry interest CS you know people are upset about something um and and even as it noted here sometimes they don't leave with the necessarily the answer or the response that they wanted but I do feel very strongly that they always leave um getting all the facts all the information they need um and with some sort of a resolution to their issues so when it talks about tact and those types of things um this is a position that that needs a significant amount of tact um and and the first bullet of number six for sure um the second Billet not so much um but everything under number five thank you is checked off questions thoughts just to give you some perspective I'm looking at other positions in Town based upon the classifications rid um um folks in town that are above a five could either be a 5.5 or a six in town chief of police fire chief Town Administrator principal assessor director of Public Health director of inspectional services director of the COA those are all the folks that are a 5.5 or a six and as I get down this list I mean I see four or five of those roles that in my mind are comparable to this in terms of the degree to which proper communication and contact with those folks is vital to the role into the town you know when comparing it to you know director of Public Health uh director of inspectional Services director of the COA this feels consistent to me and I added as a 5.5 as well and one of the things that kind of stood out to me having a working relationship with the person in this role and I think would be important if that person were ever replaced um she's incredibly confidential even with Town employees about many aspects of her own job that I think translates when dealing with contacts and I think it's very important that when those people who are leaving dissatisfied with their honest answer or whatever um knowing feeling or just the people behind the scenes knowing that they're leaving with dignity no matter how difficult that interaction between them was is enough alone for me to give it the0 five because they work in a very close tight space down there and I'm got to tell you that office does a great job with keeping their business their business in such a small place and I think to me that credit goes under this category um of privacy like if I had to deal with a financial issue that was um difficult that office is somebody that I personally would feel comfortable going to knowing that it's between me and the people who have to deal with it on a Town level that door gets closed probably than any other door in this town hall it does indeed yeah yeah that's like just even dealing with the difficult people it's and back to work like you know what I mean and I think that's if that weren't the case this would take a huge hit I think yeah other thoughts I think you have to be satisfied that if you work with Personnel in the town that there's at least some implied guarantee that you're not going to find your name in the in the new report Daily News the following morning you know things like that you know it's true dealing with people is critically important and this as we talked about earlier this this role has direct connection to as broad a range of contacts probably the entire time you maybe with the exception of the police chief or you know I can't think of other roles where you know somebody touches as many members of this community as as this role so okay uh if there no other thoughts let's vote uh we're back to Chief the vote first I have the 5.5 on that I can support a 5.5 5.5 as well 5.5 it is thank you all again great conversation supervision and we talk about supervision in two ways here there are two different factors one is the character of the supervision what is the nature of the supervisory responsibilities uh and also the scope which we'll get to next which is how many employees are supervis character refers to or considers the degree and nature of the position supervisory responsibilities if there are no supervisory responsibilities no points are awarded um in terms of character one this is a leave position May allocate the work of others may be responsible for attendance records sorry this is says one or two I'm a little bit confused here I looked at this for a bit uh we switch to a three limited supervision does not have full supervisory responsibilities for a unit ass signs and monitors the work of co-workers may be involved in the recruitment process May trainer coach a four uh supervision supervises positions performing related work responsibilities may include recruitment training coaching prioritizing work allocating work uh performance analysis appraisals recommendations terminations Etc position supervised generally perform related work five is a general management role with a supervision over a full department or several units within the same department and a six is responsible for policy Direction I was 4.5 on this one um again check the box on all in number four but on number five um there's no subordinate supervisors but she the position has supervision over of the entire department and some of the other units so it's Treasury and collection and benefits Administration so okay can I just clarify one thing before if I'm reading it right yeah coming up to the top of the job description supervisors the assistant Treasurer collector and other staff in the treasurer collector's office as necessary I wasn't aware that there are other staff in that office there are from time to time we have people we have um we'll have kids come from the colleges or universities we have interns sometimes and we also have project related people who will come in and do different things we haven't over the last year or two but we have in the past so there maybe the one-offs we were referring those are oneoff so there staff of one full-time person one full and then on occasion made marshal the forces of other departments but not on a regular basis so it's the the functions supervises treasury y Collections and benefits Administration right they're all within the scope of that one position right okay in in a lot of communities you know cities and towns that are some of them not even bigger than us they would be more than one person that okay question does um the person that she supervised also have a hand in each one of those categories or are they just under one category um in the past it's been different but now we do they have they're learning all of the tasks thank you I um you had this in a 4.5e I had that at a 4.5 but I this one grows me a little bit too there are two one or two of them that I just yeah I have straight four okay I didn't I didn't see the the point five here okay but again I'm willing to listen to others here thoughts uh four four other thoughts or I say full so the two bullets on the five and very definitely the first one appli second perhaps not would that not indicate for and change supervision over a department or several units within the same Department several units the findest see that's what I was struggling with because I'm like okay what's units within the same department does that mean treasury collection you know HR those functions or not I I think the spirit of this one to me doesn't match up with these just job description right you know when I think this the spirit of the way this is written supervising you know multiple departments or one large Department I I had a Time Master emergency manag I had a time you you having trouble with that makes sense to me you're having trouble with the word General yeah that makes sense yeah I don't disagree yeah I think it probably brings it to a four okay all right let's vote Lynn I think you're up four four John four four four four it is thank you supervision and scope we've already described this as supervising one to two people it's one person and then on those rare occasions that may be others when the interance of people pulled in so it's really a one person or two person Department that this individual supering the other right yes which would make it a one any disagreement there let's vote on it officially Tony one one one one one one it is thank you physical demands I think we can move through these last two pretty quickly I mean this is the I want to make it too simplistic here but this is a fairly traditional office roll where there was occasional lifting of of a box or materials but well I mean we're really focusing on the computer component as we always do this is me today you know physical physical activity this week this so I mean there there is a tremendous amount of work down here on the on the computer obviously M uh which which can lead to fatigue as we all know uh one is No undo fatigue at all visual concentration on the screen less than 20% of the time a tube may require you know infrequent burst of physical activity and also visual concentration 20 to 50% of the time looking at a monitor uh sitting or standing at the workstation in one position again 20 to 50% of the time a three moderate fatigue e either and again as we always talk about you know you don't have to hit every one of these bullets you know if two out of the four three out of the four sound reasonable then that's what we would look at frequently moving about with heavy physical effort uh activities causing moderate physical exertion visual concentration is greater than 50% of the time in a monitor and may require extended periods of time sitting or standing four frequent fatigue uh either physical effort or repetitive strenuous fatigue in terms of again looking at the screen more than uh probably 75% of the time I would say uh a five is repetitive strenuous fatigue and I don't think we have to get beyond that Tracy where did you have this two at a two uh that's looking at the screen 20 to 50% of the time probably okay I would have thought it was a little bit more than that 20 to 50% yeah okay I had it this to I'm thinking of 2.5 um sitting or standing at the workstation in one position with minimum amount of movement for 20 to 50% of the time seems a little bit light you know I would think um extended periods of time sitting or standing which are in number three yep the decision has always been rated as a three by the way in this category frequent moving about three um frequent moving about and some heavy physical effort you know I don't think that that applies um involves activities that c cause moderate physical exertion or fatigue um visual concentration greater than 50% of the time this is heavy computer use um and requires extended periods of time sitting or standing so aside from the first bullet in number three um I think three applies but you know because of the first bullet I would scal it back maybe to a 2.5 I agree with L it makes [Music] sense where did you land Tracy where you thought I was lower I I was at two but um 2.5 weeks I think I was putting too much weight on the fact that a bullet didn't apply do you think councelor I could go with little with a 2.5 well just to give you some perspective the the uh assistant Treasurer collector position which has just recently been red if I'm not mistaken mhm that's a recent that's a new positions it is it it's just recently been We R that a three what did we rate we rated this a three in terms of physical but haven't we rated like maybe 80% of these positions as a three because of um you know if I may Mark um the I can see that because the assistant is doing all a lot of the data entry whereas Diane's position she's more in interacting with department managers and meetings and those feeling fatigued in front of the computer can get up and move and go have a and yeah yeah the assistant has tum for for long well taken thank you okay so I guess I was mistaken I thought Dian was spending more time in front of the screen than perhap she is that's why I had a greaters of three well in this it says heavy computer use you know um so I'm part of the part of the discussion yeah um so 20 to 50% versus greater than 50% um yeah I you know from for my job which is I think similar um maybe in between 25 I can do the all right let's uh let's kick off a vote uh Tony I believe it's you uh 2.5 2.5 I have it as a fre I had it as a two I can go up to two I can support a 2.5 2.5 2.5 it is thank you the last factor of is working conditions the degree to which disagreeable aspects of the job environment on the point of view of employee safety and comfort the degree of severity of the workplace Hazard is considered um number one is generally agreeable very few disadvantages standard office environment two is generally agreeable some disadvantages environment may be noisy or dirty of the normal bothersome ERS potential accidents and nances are limited to minor injuries I don't think we need to get Beyond there do we okay I don't think you needed to go through one I was going to say leave the naous sers behind no heavy colog of perfume at work pleas I see that it has been rated as a one it has been rated as a one Tracy one one one one one let's take an official vote okay John one mark one one one one thank you okay finally uh is there anything as we think about these last couple three pages here and the factor uh we've already talked about as we always do the need to look at the likelihood that a that should this position become vacated that there is a readily available candidate pool considering education considering uh technical or in this case Financial expertise uh and all the other factors we've considered we look at that we've already talked about a tremendous amount of confidentiality in this job we talked about the breadth of responsibilities so when you put all those ingredients into a pot do we look at this as a one a two or a three and before the rest of the answer that was go crazy in terms of uh what's the likelihood that you're going to find you know four five six candidates if dispositions is they so for the treasury function it's a lot of times people will cross over from the financial world to the municipal world and for some of the positions it lends itself well with the treasurer's position you could have a Treasurer from any Corporation move into this role and no problem so it would be relatively easy to find people with those skills a tax collector again now you're dealing with Massachusetts general laws um so it there's a more of a learning curve to jump into that role people understand how to collect receivable balances so someone that might have been a bookkeeper or have those skills could could do it but there's you know the the general law component most people aren't going to know that unless they've worked in a municipal setting in the past so there is a little bit um you know I would say given the adding up this um this ranking it comes to an 18 so I would say 18.1 because of the the difficulty in in finding the right person or having those right skills that would be a three wouldn't it which one is the highest oh three goes what one easiest easiest two three so it'll be a three in your mind no I would say so one is the so it's 18 yeah if it's easy right and then 18.1 if it's more difficult then no no it's a straight if it goes as a straight 18 then you look at the the the the other factors which is you know if this is an extremely hard job to recruit for it would be 18.3 if it was an easy you know if it was a role where you know you had oodles and candidates available to you it would be an 18.1 correct that's the way I have I believe yeah that's how I I I was thinking it was going to be so then I would say two yeah CU one piece of it would be easy the other piece of it would be more difficult is this an 18 that's I added it up to 4 405 yeah I'm just doing the math now um I'm sorry so you're giving points you're doing the five times 15% okay all right I'm going to leave that Mouse up to you so that I I mean I could pull it up on my computer but I mean on my well I can tell you one thing you're not going to rely on my math skills that's okay you don't get the job it again sure [Music] 410 um I came to 405 405 I had 41 okay I'm sure you're right is anybody else doing the math here I need a better so this is where we're reconciling the points right um right here 18.1 right is that the only place where we see the total points yes okay consequen clarify what's the clarify that is what I was looking for so that would be 18 right yeah I I don't see it in the classification schedule yeah 405 brings it in as an 18 it's an 18 okay so it's an 18 and then an 18 and then we questioning whether it's a one two or three where's the definition of that somewhere in the policies or something in the back two or three pages under okay I agree complete Factor plan other consideration considerations tracing I'm sorry is it a policy it's it's it's it's a practice more than a policy it's Market recruitment long service other pay problems uh I don't have that for yeah no that's not it you don't have the form well the one that shows the point what the points mean don't like 1.1 Point 23 we don't have any paperwork on that it's just what we look at is other considerations and then we we just kind of Cobble together our thoughts as to whether those other considerations should be because it's it's it's kind of like jello I mean it's I was just looking for something that said we were confused as to was the0 one the highest or was the three the highest is all that I was well and I think that we're being so technical on this whole point and evaluation and points and things that I would like it seems like Tracy is getting us the paperwork that defines yeah .1 Point 2.3 I'd like to see that instead of just my assumption yeah you know what I don't know where that is she took something it's making copies I think I mean I've got the sheet here that talks about every position in town whether it's graded a 20.1 20.2 there's no rationale for that yeah I don't don't see R what's the method here when you take you take this total yeah you come up with a number it has 405 okay and then you look and see where 405 sits in the GD this total first yeah that number 45 405 you come over here and you see which positions are R in well still it's not it's not on here what we should consider when deciding about the percentages 5 5 * 15 not indicators at the level and which should be which should I've never seen that weight truck before this is what Diana always uses at the end of every conversation given ni to use those yeah I I got because I knew D wasn't going to be here today is there anywhere we can get hold of that so we know that oh yeah so that might be something in the future for us to have with this kind of you know um toolkit yeah you know so quantify that a little bit better what what constitutes a one versus a two versus a three yes yeah or even if simply one is no you know no to minimal two is medium and three is high even just to clarify which one's low medium and high it would be good if we had something but either way for the sake of this I think we're in the middle whether one is high or three is high so I think two a point two is I'm quite sure that historically three has been the highest of the okay so for the purposes of today's conversation did we fall on a two given given the the challenge of identifying we got all of these I would say one or a two I would say two I felt like it was a two two okay I'm still a little bit unclear on it so I'll kind of we can hold on it if you're uncomfortable we can hold on for now and get get more clarity and is it helpful to to see what positions well yeah I was looking at the positions and they are you know like identified as within the grade 0.1 point2 you know so yeah so 18 there are three 181s the conservation agent the library director yeah and the director of the COA yeah there are two 18. tws the assistant Town Administrator and the director of animal and natural resources y there is 11 18.3 the accountant assistant Finance director yeah so I would say .1 yeah okay 18.1 and that's based on your perception of the of the relative challenges to find people okay 18.1 for that that would be consistent with the conservation agent the library director and the director of the COA in terms of the candidate than you um how of people feel about that I would vote for point1 then does that help you at all sure so looking at the classification schedule it's pretty interesting so it was a um 17.2 and moving it up to an 18.1 there's no change in salary in grade the classification grade right yeah that's kind of interesting so that kind of um gives me a little bit of pause so if we went to an 18.2 um it would bump it up bump up the salary range which Tracy listening to you and how this position has evolved yeah um I think that that makes sense to me yeah I not disagree I had it at2 yeah yeah yeah I agree with you good catch but I thought you had it as 18.1 I wrote down I did I had it at 18.1 but based on what you just said okay yeah okay I can support an 18.2 and what percentage is that fum salary opportunity um it's $5 more an hour 540 more an hour range the mid mid point point you want me to say what the mid points are um it's a 34 .24 for the current range and then the midpoint of an 18.2 is 3965 so like $541 more but again you know just reflecting back on what what Tracy said you know and I think just in general um the duties of tax collection and HR over the last what 12 years since it was evaluated last I think that it's you know those roles have changed significantly I know HR house I I agree and I just think that the degree of complexity to the challenges associated with filling this role given the additional responsibilities the the the unusual nature of the two parts of the job mhm uh and the requirements involved just seems to me to be challenging enough that that that would in S pump into it too you know we've never been frankly we've never been over can word Lance in terms of compensation because that's really not our our function here the function is is to be consistent you know across the Enterprise in terms of how positions are rated and I think that so the um two um positions on this sheet for an 18.2 is a library director and a principal assessor right and then on this one is there an 18.2 there's no 18.2 on this sheet so does that make sense for to put it yes in with the we always TR to look at comps wait a second no it's not um the library director is an 18.1 18.2 is principal assessor and the director ctor of Inspection Services pH facilities maintenance I'm not sure if you're looking at the current does it have a a fiscal year classification rates this is the one I've got is updated February 29th of this year you looking looking at these or something else I'm looking at this mine and yours are 23 on this y so I'm looking at the 18 the 182s printed the assistant administrator of animal [Music] andal must be like wow we need to close out here folks comfortable with an 182 I am well just let's give it one more quick glance so um it is up there with the principal assessor and the director of Inspection Services facilities maintenance the principal assessor according what's the date you have on yours this this doesn't have a date oh well I've got this let me see 18.2 let's see there's nobody in that one classification there's nobody in 18.2 on the one that I have from 2023 this one this sheet yeah this is this is the most updated one from from February 29th of this year and the principal assessor is now a 19.3 I'm going to get make sure you all have the 2025 classification rates cuz we've done that now okay yeah this I'm looking what about the director of Inspection Services facilities maintenance where's that director director of inspectional services is a 19 19.2 Whoever has the updated sheet can you tell us who's on 18.1 and who's on 18.2 yeah that's the one I originally gave you 181 is the conservation agent the library director and the director of the COA 18.2 are the assistant Town Administrator and the director of animal and natural resources it's a point two okay yeah all right yeah if we could get updated that would be great yep we okay on 18.2 Now official vote 18.2 18.2 that's it 18.2 okay I wish I wish I had an update on this take a look I'm looking at this categ look at this right here just focus on that yeah all right and this new position well above this paper you ask me whether we're moving we're moving from here all the way to here yeah okay do we need to pause and revisit this once we have updated um sheets what's the urgency with this Tracy orcy um I I think you're there I mean I don't know if you want to if look if if folks uncomfortable with the 181 versus two right now let's suspend the conversation we're meeting next week I'll put it on the agenda we get we'll make sure we're all on the same page in terms of paperwork there and we can vote on it then well it seems like John might have had additional questions I was kind of well I'm just looking at I'm just looking at specific positions uh that would almost appear to be uh equal and the great great range drops all the way to [Music] 172 do we would this be an okay agenda item or would we have to like convene out for a special conversation and then come back in no you could have it as yeah I even as long as this long as this we just excuse Diane for that part y sure and then bring her back in for the general Mee okay let's let's do that because we're unsure here let's let's we leave it as an 18 to be determine whether it's a one or two based upon everybody having the same paperwork in front of them we meet on next Monday okay and can we maybe get that information beforehand in an email so we can print it out and have it ready one more question possible to get the updated sheets on both of these yes all right y okay is it fair fair to me to ask what's Diane's ceg what is she number at where is she on the list right now yes she is a 17.2 that's what I just CED on on does that make sense well that's what we're we're talking about moving it to an 18.2 or an 18.1 well then I would vote for the 18.2 right but that's where our discussion yep yeah yeah I hold I'm going to hold the discussion okay I have another question oh I'm sorry this is a general question this is not Point whatever we land on it looks like it's going to be a a higher salary range than where we are currently so just in general um would that mean then that because it came out of this committee this board would we look at adjusting her the incumbent's pay it's that's all subject to appropriation and availability of of funds so nine times out of 10 when you do this exercise it doesn't necessarily lead to an increase in pay it just generally we do it when people leave and someone new comes in but absolutely I go through this and you know as I formulate budget information either this year or next is availability of funds I would when's our budget year start July one ju okay but it was voted in April by town meeting okay so and that's why I say we we typically try to refrain from having the compensation I understand it's a question right but it's something that it's not the purview of this group this this board's actions don't always translate to racist yeah okay good with that uh any further discussion if not I'll call for an adjournment is there a motion motion second second all in favor I we