meeting call to order today is Wednesday March 6 2024 this is a special budget meeting um would the clerk please read the statement of compliance this meeting is being held in accordance with the open public meetings law duly announced advertised and posted in the municipal building the meeting will adjourn no later than 10: p.m. unless a majority of the council members that are present vote to extend the time all rise for pledge of allegiance Chief would you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance i al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all please be seated roll call Mayor Cala presid Council woman goo here councilman McAn Pres councilman pelli here councilman president Sani here councilman slinsky here councilman talamini here do I have a motion open to the public so moved second all in favor I not seeing any public motion to close Mo second all in favor I all right so tonight is the second meeting of our uh budget meetings and uh we had the first meeting on Monday and tonight we're going to be hearing from Mr Mr Young uh the police department is going to take us through their budget along with the fire department at DBW at this time I'd like to turn the meeting over to Mr C thank you mayor uh just very briefly this evening kind of Rec capsulated the uh uh you know the order of businesss for tonight very well uh I'm going to actually turn it over to David we have a very uh brief tax rate update for you uh there was actually a little bit of since our meeting Monday night uh that's a little bit positive for the public so David do you want to certainly uh so Scott uh gave us the latest assessment net valuation taxable average assess home that's been submitted to the county officially and it actually lowers the municipal tax levy um rate not the levy itself but the rate itself so instead of 6754 it's now 6594 so it is a small change but it is a change in favor of a downward trend for the resident uh that is the only thing that is changing in terms of of the presentation we went through so far from Monday and there I think with that we can get right into the presentation uh and the first Department uh presenting this evening is the police department here this evening are chief szeri and Captain Keenan Chief all right um well thank you very much thanks for having us here tonight um we haven't done this in quite some time maybe 5 years or so and there's some people on Council that maybe don't know exactly what happens in the police department as as far as operations so if you could just bear with me for 5 or 10 minutes I just want to give a a brief overview of the structure of the police department and um some of the things that we do and the responsibilities that we have um if you just look at uh I think it's page three or four where it's gold of priorities for 2024 in the uh small blue box that's basically how the police department department is structured uh we have administrative command that's basically made up of the chief a captain and two lieutenants um they all have different responsibilities just uh if if I could go through them a little bit just so you understand the administrative responsibilities a little bit the administ and some of these things you might not fully understand if you have any questions or comments you know or or need any explanations just uh at the end I can uh go over some of the things for us you uh for you some of it is just you know law enforcement jargon and things like that so um like I said it's a chief a captain and two lieutenants one one Lieutenant is a patrol lieutenant and the other is an administrative Lieutenant uh the administrative Lieutenant is um basically is in charge of the detective Bureau and investigations they're also in charge of the records Bureau Firearms investigations expungements property evidence uh cell block management the juvenile Bureau Megan's Law forfiter they're liaison to all the schools within Oakland um he's in charge of the pre-employment investigations and he also assists with the accreditation process um the patrol Lieutenant is basically the patrol Commander he's in charge of the Patrol Division it's the colal Justice Reform liaison the domestic violence liaison uh handles all accreditation he's a supervising Firearms instructor an internal affairs investigator uh a bear officer liaison um the field intelligence and rock leaon which is the uh Regional operations and Intelligence Center for uh the State Police in the state of New Jersey uh he's also a rifle instructor um and then also the captain who is to my left um he has a number of responsibilities as well he's the training coordinator uh he's in charge of traffic Bureau scheduling extra Duty scheduling the internal affairs supervisor field training officer coordinator uh administers crossing guard program uh body armor leaon Naran liaison alha test liaison Communications liaison handles vehicle maintenance uh pre-employment is the Municipal Court liaison public information officer Oprah uh mandatory drug screening that we have to do for employees and the body warrant camera coordinator who is the administrative lieutenant in command uh Mark YY and Mike O'Neal is the uh Patrol lieutenant and Captain ke is here um so that's basically the administrative uh command structure that's what we do you know they kind of oversee everybody else and all the responsibilities within the police department uh next is the Patrol Division that's basically the heart and soul the back bone of the police department they do all the work they do the shift work and they're they're out there doing all the Hands-On on you know boot on the ground uh ground work and how many police officers do we have total so now Police Department's 28 we have 28 we have 28 total that's Patrol and uh Administration and everything thank you um we have the detective Bureau obviously they handle all the um criminal investigations and uh and case loads they also do the firearms background checks for pistol permits Firearms ID cards public concealed carry um uh they also do the background checks for first aid Squad members fire department members uh coaches and and and BR volunteers and things like that as well uh we have the traffic Bureau which obviously handles all the traffic related uh issues in town both proactively and reactively um you know for the motoring public for pedestrians and just overall safety in the burrow uh Communications division that's basically our dispatchers that we have we have three full-time dispatchers and three or four PDM dispatchers that work the weekend and also fill in any gaps that might come up um they dispatch the police fire and the first aid Squad um records Bureau it's pretty self-explanatory it's just basically where we file and maintain all of our our police records and cases um and you know obviously they uh are held quite securely but they are given out at at appropriate times to appropriate persons you know whether it's through Oprah or Discovery or for um to the prosecutor uh information and Technology that's all Mr D right there he um has been doing a great job with all of the influx of information and technology and all the uh things that has come upon the job of uh of a police officer over the few over the last few years um it's become very Advanced as far as technology and you know he doesn't just do computers and software and hard Hardware but he uh is very well versed with um the servers the radios the telephones um body War cameras incar cameras all the technology that goes into the police departments uh the police cars and the like and then we also have the class three police officers they uh handle school security for the Oakland Public School district schools which is uh one middle school and three um elementary schools so that's basically in a nutshell um the administr um the structure of the police department um as far as uh goals and priorities for 2024 um three things that I listed here was accreditation the law enforcement Surplus uh program and succession planning for 20124 into 2025 uh accreditation is always an important thing that we always keep up here at the police department we've been accredited for uh three Cycles which is N9 years um we're actually due for an evaluation later this month the accreditation Auditors are coming out and they're going to do an onsite audit of us to make sure that we're meeting all the uh the goals and expectations of the accreditation um process uh it's a very important process it standardizes everything that we do it creates clear and concise policies procedures rules and rs so that everybody that works for the police department knows exactly what to do and what's expected of them uh and and it's very standardized and and it's easy to follow and everybody you know knows exactly what they need to be doing at any given time uh you know reduces the liability for the burrow you know because we are an accredited agency and we have been for quite some time um so we've gotten that system down pth and you know it just reduces liability because because they know that we're following best practice Chief who uh who was your training officer the accreditation the one that handles accreditation no training Keenan's are a training officer okay yeah he makes sure everyone does their training he also train uh schedules people for training um and uh Lieutenant Mike O'Neal he's the the main driver with accreditation so uh our liso program or law enforcement Surplus 1033 program that's um a program that's available to all Municipal police departments where they have um Federal Surplus equipment um available to them them for free basically you just have to go into their database find what you need you know fight through the different levels you know because they give uh priority to Federal levels and then State levels and then County levels and then whatever's left over you know we can scrunch for on the municipal level but have we been successful with anything yeah we've gotten quite a bit of things um most notably we got a hum V about a year and a half ago that we used for high water uh flooding rescues we actually used it last year um to get somebody out of uh Glen Ray um and we also got uh two vehicles that we use for outside details so we don't have to use you know our marked Vehicles we don't have to buy any Vehicles we just use them for outside details and for the SLO 3 they can take those cars to the schools what Chevys or uh uh one is a Chevy and one is a Ford cranc it was basically like a military police vehicle and it's silver so it uh it fit our needs perfectly uh we also got a storage container out back next to the shed I don't know if any of you have ever noticed that it's not a a sizable one that you would imagine like that goes on ships and things like that it's maybe um 10 ft maybe 8 ft we also got some traffic uh I forget what you call them big dividers yeah uh I don't think the ud dos no I don't think they look like a jersey divider no I don't think wasn't no we got we borrowed them from the county county when we uh we need them for the the carnival I thought pnini got him when he was here but maybe not that might have been through something else but that was also quite quite some time ago so um and then succession planning that's probably the most important thing for 2024 in the first quarter or two of 2025 um we have one officer retire February 1st already this year we have a an administrative assistant that has filed for retirement from for June 1st we have a records Clerk that is eligible but she's not yet um you know declared when she's going to retire and then we have two lieutenants a lieutenant uh two sergeants a lieutenant and myself that are eligible to retire this year and then we have a lieutenant and an officer that are going to retire in the first or second quarter of 2025 so succession planning is is is a big part of this year it actually has it's already started it started last year you know Captain Keenan can can talk about that um you know I've been sharing things with him and giving him responsibilities and explain you know that's why he's here tonight so he can experience this he uh took part in the budget process for this year as well so um and that's happening at all levels you know with the various ranks that are leaving so um what's the word on on the uh County training uh facility is it um they are scheduled to start an academy class later this month oh okay and they might do a second one in August so we're going to take advantage of the one in August if we can if not we have other options you know say County we're allowed to go there I think it's a nominal cost if we send someone out of County to P County Poli training and Morris has a very good U Police Academy as well so we we can always fall back onto that okay uh we're current currently looking for IGS right now um we have their applications filled out I think we called them in and we're in the background process right now so so we're we're preparing on all fronts you know everyone's learning what they need to learn we're trying to hire as best we can uh from the from the pool of of candidates that we have how many GT candidates are you looking for we're hoping for one nice two would be nice it all tends we have some flexibility this year since we're looking for so many that you know we could take one we could take two we could take three and then later in the year it's just one or two less that we would need but you budgeted for that right to send yeah you you budget it many two IGS and two officers later in the a that's what we're able to do and uh and we we'll see how that how that flushes out because as you may or may not know the the pool for police recruits is the wi Ling quick you know I don't I don't think we we're not seeing as many applications as we used to so but we'll work through it and the IGT is it's civil service to Civil Service correct so so if if there's someone that's in a non-il service town and they wanted to come like they can't they can't at all nope no they can't Chief I believe you guys had a uh Facebook post about the next civil service test coming up for hiring you want to just expand on that for the residents for anybody that might interest in police work so in order to be a police officer in Oakland you have to take the New Jersey civil service exam and that's offered once a year the application uh opened March 1st and I believe it closes April 1st so once you get in there and you register you fill out an application um then you'll be notified later to take the test and then you can take the test around in the summer and then I I think the scores will probably come out in November or or December you also expand a little bit on on the fact how we change the ordinance how do local residents get preference over outside yeah yeah so if you're an Oakland resident you automatically get preference which means that you will you will essentially be at the top of the list competing with other Oakland residents and then if you're not an Oakland resident but you're a Bergen County resident you'll be put into that second tier underneath the Oakland residence and then the list goes Statewide on the third tier thank you Chief yeah no problem um so that is a quick Department summary that are that is some of the goals and priorities that we're looking to accomplish in 2024 um the next couple pages are just some more responsibilities and things that we do um I'm just going to hit on a few of them if you guys want to if you have any questions or anything like that we can talk about it at the end but you know obviously uh we're in charge of enforcing criminal law here in Oakland uh motor vle law we enforce the bur or ordinances we ma obviously managed the case law in the detective Bureau for you know all the crimes that are occurring um in 20 I don't know if any of you read the uh police department annual report for 2023 but Oakland just like everybody else is uh is you know the residents are having you falling victim to Identity uh theft and fraud and things like that it's rampant throughout the entire country so so they were certainly busy in 2023 dealing with all those um like I said we dispatched the F uh the first day the PD fire department we work with OEM uh when needed uh we have our special threes we manage the Narcan program uh active shooter program and training we do that on an on a annual basis all officers are trained uh for active shooter um Captain and I have actually also done some private businesses that showed some interest in learning some active shooter tactics and we're also going to schedule uh burrow employees for active shooter training in 20124 uh we obviously deal with the Megan's Law registration uh I mentioned all the background checks and things that we do for various uh fire ID cards and things like that um Safety Town we administer I'm sure most of you are familiar with Safety Town the junior Police Academy we do book with a cop every year for mult grades at all at all elementary schools we do the coffee with the cop periodically we have our bicycle Patrol that we deploy at uh various bur events as well as when Valley Middle School is on a half day cuz those kids love to walk to C Central business district and and hang out so that uh has already proven to be uh a beneficial program um we handle the juvenile matters we install child seats for uh the residents you know and obviously we keep a good rapport with all the schools you know we're always communicating with them uh attending to their needs and they help us out from time to time as well so um that's pretty much it for the Department summary Dave you want to uh I yeah we we have a a very high level in terms of the uh police department salary and wages uh you and see where that things most of the line items are flat um most of the other line items here are contractually driven um you know based upon the latest police agreement that we have with their their Union uh I don't think there's anything unique in there other than um everything that we've talked about in terms of the people that we brought on board for succession planning and that we plan to as well as retirements are in that permanent full-time line um so we've taken into account all those things that are going to be happening this year um so that is all built in and still comes in at a pretty good uh 2.7% increase year-over-year which is I think the smallest increase of of any Department um percentage wise into burrow well you said that includes new police officers coming on board that's what the chief was talking accounts for uh the expected retirements this year as well as hireing new Replacements uh both uh IGS and and recruits going into the police academy and whenever we have you know discussions on hiring that floats all the way through you know we take into account the effect on benefits and and everything else that is headcount related clothing allowance is going up too also because of that that's that's for additional outfitting of of the new officers that's $2,800 and then School guards that's our that's our crossing guards yeah yeah one 8.6% uh yeah if you look at actual pider charge for the year it was 129 and change uh so it's a slight increase from actual spending in 2023 David what was the breakage savings uh on from the retirees to the new officers I can't tell you what the exact dollar amount is we looked at it in in total we loaded their salaries in for the portion of the year they were here at the same time we loaded in new hires so I don't have a number on what we saved in breakage um do we we think moving forward as we get into next year we'll see a better picture of that because we'll actually be able to look at full year salaries that have come out and F year benefits that go in you know when a when they're retiring they'll take some benefit packages with them so that's a cost increase on that side while we lose a salary so the breakage is not going to be what it used to be it used to be get pretty significant breakage you don't get as much be an actual line item in the budget I don't see it so um never I've never done one you okay nope what just question on the overtime I see it's been was a 203,000 in 2020 that went down to 167 152 149 what's driving that number down that's a good thing well it could be a combination you know we do have an extra officer or two than we used to have you know so obviously there's going to be less overtime incurred um okay yeah I I think Keith has managed the operation very well I didn't want to say that well I'll give you the Kudos right it's scheduling management I think is is certainly part of it if you go back to 2019 and we're if we had 2018 and 2017 there uh before we made the changes to dispatch that we made that was driving a lot of that uh larger overtime number as as well and when we changed that system and how that was staffed uh that drove a lot of the overtime uh away as well because we didn't need officers on the desk as often as we had previously thank you again a very a pretty good story on the o uh most of the line items are maintaining you know at 2020 three levels um few line items are up and some of them up rather significantly um professional development is one that is up it's a good one they need to spend the time on their development and I think we'll have uh Vin talk about the changes in the contracted services and some of the things that are driving driving that contracted Services went up U 19,000 yeah right and most of that was it related so then do you want to sort of take it from there yeah um so since we Safeguard or have the most sensitive data in the town we are constantly having to safeguard that data and um we have a multitude of services that we use subscribe to they're continually going up uh we're adding things as the uh programs get more sophisticated for hacking and whatnot we're adding more safeguards on there um that just is continually driving the cost that's like for malware malware cyber security cost that's for malware and what else antivirus um we have trustify email Services we we deal with um 15 different vendors with different softwares that all have to have their own uh safeguards in place so it's it's quite expensive yeah uh multiactor authentication uh you know on the network there's a cost to that every year as well and the employees as we said before all the employees are trained in yes how to be careful mhm monthly monthly yeah in-house training or there is everybody email it's a basically a subscription service that we have okay that pushes out online training monthly oh great good thank you and subscriptions that's gone up quite a bit um subscriptions is just um paperwork books and software but why is it double new what's that why is it double it depends on how many officers we plan on hiring in a particular year because they all need to get their copy and to the software and they use it in the police academy and it's pretty expensive stuff so um that's that's we're planning you know four officers worst case scenario to the academy so that's you know we upu that a little bit just to uh take that into consideration and uh professional development is up significantly um you know we want to give the younger officers the best training that we can you know if they lack some knowledge or experience because how new they are we want to you know set them up for Success uh so we we up the professional development which is basically the training that they go to to different short courses Etc um I do all the training scheduling the the cost of the classes have gone up a bunch also they used to be about $100 now some of them are $500 you're not done that at the police academy there's some free ones at the Academy but the more intense better training you have to pay for through other companies separate vendor right and also our armorers for the Glocks and the rifles they have to be recertified every few years and that alone I think is like $600 per officer and we have to have the armorers to work on the weapon it's not something we can take the gun apart um maintain it you know if it breaks repair it that kind of stuff you have to be certified yeah for weapons you're either a user level or an armor level so a b you know an officer can have a basic knowledge of the gun how to shoot it and use it and maintain it and then an armorer can break it down and take it apart into smaller pieces for more intensive um you know maintenance so that's someone in the department that does that okay yeah I didn't know whether it was outside or inside we have to have them trained and certified U to work on the weapons okay thank you um I have a question on the contracted Services did the numbers from 2019 to 2022 did this year seem to be all over the place if you go to 2022 so I'm say 46% increase to the proposed uh this year do you have a um what's the breakdown of the I mean and if you look at 2019 it's almost it's close to it's close to today's proposed number um what that's 46% differential and if you even go to 2021 it's it's still 40% so what's causing that big swing up and down I suppose then was that when we went do you remember and the cloud remember we had offsite M with that company and then we brought everything back in yeah so we had um a network refresh the end of 2019 and we brought the network back so we were hosted we brought it back inhouse that jumped up cost uh we then rectified all the numbers with how many computers we had to how many officers we have we keep adding every time we add somebody it cost more money um I have a breakdown of everything for the last three years okay I can share with you oh no it's just it just as you can see it's the numbers you know yeah there not a graph there's not a trend line there established there it's actually yeah we had somebody else do it for us and there were some problems and we needed to bring our business in house and handle it ourselves that's what that was okay thanks hey any other questions on the uh operating expense budget and here is the proposed cap for for this year for Police Department um so the capital 10 is two vehicles that's um the purchase and full equipping of two vehicles we're replacing two stationary speed signs in town they're about $6,000 a piece and then three alpers are automated license plate readers that is for three intersections to be equipped with license plate readers at the intersection so that they can capture uh vehicles and vehicle plates as they drive by um plate readers have been around for quite some time a lot of different police departments in jurisdiction have them uh as part of their infrastructure they're basically as good as having a police officer standing there you know they're sold as a force multiplier and they certainly do that um if there's a stolen car that drives by a red FL Flags it and it tells all the officers um that are on patrol uh just to make them aware of it often you know with all the stolen vehicles and things that are happening in ber County right now it's a it's a huge thing an important thing typically when they steal cars they use other stolen cars so as the stolen vehicles come into town to commit the crime you know we can know that they're there immediately and then by placing them at different locations we're basically creating a perimeter around all the entry eress and you know exit points of the town so that you know we know when they're here and we know if they left or not or if they did leave which way they went and uh you know it also helps with uh every once in a while we have some accidents you know some hit and run accidents so can see you know a license plate that gets caught by one of the plate readers um you know it tells us who it was you know it's it's as simple as that you know it's it's a a very good technology um we already purchased um one intersection Alper for one intersection but we haven't uh received them yet so we're going to we're we have one about to go up and then these three are going to do different intersections around so they're not in cars no stationary what's the anticipated lifespan of the of this Tech um I would say 5 to seven years at least okay um on the hardware you know um software is always updated right soft where you that'll change software and maintenance you know that that will always change it might be more than 5 to7 because it's it's a lot of different parts this cost includes the software updates or just the purchase of the includes everything it's all land that's everything all is this a local initiative or is this a county- driven initiative this is local this is local okay and uh we had discussed this with Richard our administrator uh uh when we received money for um the bridge we're going to ask for additional speed signs uh to be put up in the in the uh routes that people will be taking other than the bridge and hopefully those will be still here after the bridge is gone so we'll have some extra hopefully have some extra right we see we have a meeting tomorrow actually to conduct a followup to uh last week's meeting uh talk all about about all of the traffic related issues hopefully we put we ask for more speed signs and and in that yeah that's that's one of the discussion topics for tomorrow because we want to help protect the uh uh residential areas that traffic is going to be going through that as it normally gone through right Chief can you just explain to them how that works in real time it you know when it's read and how um without giving away the well if stolen car crew uh comes into Oakland they get off of 287 and they come down the entrance ramp by um the courthouse Exxon and theoretically there will be a licis Plate Reader there so as soon as they get to the bottom of the ramp uh the camera in the reader will read it and then through the cloud it will put an alert at a computer at the desk and then in all the incar computers and it'll it'll make an audible noise it'll pop up on the screen red stolen vehicle it'll show the picture of the license weight that it took and then all the officers know that it was there and then with the the buildout of this system it'll trigger again at a second one so then that will tell us the direction that it's going and and where in Oakland it is and you know and then they can't leave town without again passing a Plate Reader but we don't have that any we don't have that yet we don't have it what's the data retention time on that um it's set by attorney general guideline um if it's just General data I think it erases after 30 days um so you need to do a look back before that but flag things stay in there longer but okay well we do have plate readers in some of our police cars in the police cars right yeah so I see him par on rle Valley Road yeah if they they can read plates that way and it tells them you know a number of different things motor vehicle violation stolen cars and stuff like that mhm MH that's amazing yeah it's literally like putting a police police officer or a police car yeah in those areas 24/7 365 now we don't we don't release this to the public what's that that we're going to have these at all these locations in town we just did I believe everyone knows I don't know how many people are listening to this is what I mean it's a it's a pretty common technology and I think it's important for the residents to know I think so too I mean I feel safer another benefit to it is that it logs every plate that goes through and it just does like an instant check for stolen or if it's flagged a missing person wow but say in the morning all of a sudden people are calling up my car was burglarized you know whatever we can go back and look at the plate readers and see what license plates were in that neighborhood possibly and start trying to narrow down suspects wow great yeah so if there was a bunch of car burglaries car thefts robberies anything even if the vehicle used wasn't stolen at the time it gets entered at a later date it'll give us a retro active hit once it was entered saying hey that vehicle was in your town at this date and time yeah so by then the car is disposed them I potentially we'll get them we'll get them later we'll track them down you know if something happens between midnight and 5 there might only be 12 or 24 cars that Pass the Plate Raider between that time so we already know that we've you know put the uh susp suspect pool down to 12 or 20 cars else has access to this data just locally or can it go to the county state required to be sent to the county and the state so we can see all the other police department's information and they can see ours it all communicates together so it could if we have a plate that we're looking at and it goes over to gwb we can see their Plate Reader and know exactly where it went and once we flag it it shows as a flag for every Plate Reader in the state they would get our hits also if we entered a missing Endangered Person or something like that it hits the gwb they would get notified wow it's also an average safety feature for the officers when they're dealing with particular vehicle yeah if you know you know a felon vehicle's coming into town it's always something good to know and that reminds me it does help a lot with uh missing people or you know people with dementia and things like that because we can enter their plate into the system and then if they're driving around in Oakland or another town or another County it'll it'll get flagged and then that police officer will find them and then it will have all their information in there that they suffer from dementia the open Police Department is looking for them you know so there so you can also request the system to flag a certain plate if it does come through okay well it's great don't go over to GW without paying no amazing to you on that one easy okay uh any other questions for the chief the and the police vehicles that's just um it's just time that's what we do right y you know what i' I'd like to say that our replacement schedule is any been anything but normal uh unfortunately since the pandemic uh we continue to fund two vehicles a year on that normal placement schedule uh but there's been some significant delays due to pandemic related issues I suppose in the car industry uh where you know there's been some what was it like 16 months to get in the 202 Tu they just came in in January got in two others and they're in for outfitting uh So eventually that system will get back on track where we're actually rotating two per year um but the rotation schedule is not back to where it was but uh we're continuing that sort of steady state of of funding so that we don't fall behind on that and we and we try to reuse the sirens and lights as much as we can right we we rotate the vehicles so there's basically primary Patrol vehicles that are our newest because they're the ones that are used the most they're driven you know through town the way that they are and then once they re uh reach a certain you know maintenance level you know and I I speak with uh DPW and the mechanic to see what kind of shape these vehicles are in then they get dropped down to secondary vehicles and they get dropped down to Road details and then uh they could stay there for quite some time but you know once once we get the the new vehicles that we have now in service and running we'll be able to auction off some of those older vehicles um you know we unfortunately got uh a couple vehicles from the manufacturer that you know after we got them they had uh pretty significant engine issues and this is with police vehicles you know every Chief I talked to has the same cars the same model years and the same problems you know they use some uh cheap material in the engines and when the lifters get hot they deform and they cause engine problems so we're dealing with that right now we have two vehicles at the dealer right now for that so the new cars can't come fast enough is are we paying for that or is the manufacturer paying for the defect uh it depends on the car the first ones the manufacturer paid for it the second one the manufacturer paid for and we'll have to see on these you know it depends on the mileage okay thank you anybody else all right thank I can use a couple of minutes you want to take a quick uh 5 minute break next group can get set up okay I think video going right just move down take seats we're back in session uh next we have uh fire chief V you want to walk us through your budget presentation sure thank you for having me to we have uh as of when this was written uh 53 volunteers I believe we've added two more we have 55 volunteers 13 life members for the burrow um we are looking to continue what we've been doing for the last couple of years we have uh some very big goals in mind this year we're looking to become accredited uh similar to what the police department is doing that is going to be a uh a large undertaking we're looking to have a uh a way to keep and retain members um and get new members in we've uh we've had a very uccessful Junior program we actually have an applicant hopefully going to get sworn in this month for that and we are looking to um just pretty much initiate or start up a rapid intervention team for the firemen uh which is going to take a little money and a whole lot of training for them to do that but uh Chief can I just interrupt you for just a moment go ahead could you just for the benefit of the residents uh just kind of give an overview of how to get involved with the fire department daily duties should somebody wish to volunteer sure so uh Monday night is drill night you can come down 700 p.m. to either firehouse on haata or yo we're there usually 7:00 maybe a little earlier till 9:30 10:00 at night on Mondays we are involved with the community more than we are uh just with fires so we we have a fire side and we have a Civic side we we raise money we go out we do Santa Claus around town this year uh last year we had a very successful right before Christmas we drove around that night and brought Santa Claus around most of the streets in Oakland that seemed to be people were waiting on the corners that seemed to be really well received we um we do other events you you see us around town we do uh the truck day anything where the public can can come and see what we do we we have trucks there we have we have people there we trying to get the Department into a place where you know you want to come and join it's it's a not a very easy thing to do it's 6 months worth of schooling to become a fireman and then you have to maintain a percentage once you're on the department so it is it is quite involved and uh luckily we have a a we had a really good Junior program going we've had a lot of success with maintaining those members through 18 and you know we need people who live in Town who are young family members and they want to come and you know donate back to their communities and if they wanted to get involved who do they contact or what do they do just show up at the just show up at the firehouse and that's the easiest way the guys there will welcome them in we'll give them an application we'll go over you know what's needed and we'll go from there thank you Chief sorry Chief quick question and under the goals and priorities one of them is retention of members is is there a is there a specific a reason or can are there reason are we losing members and and what would the reason it's always uh it always goes in Cycles as people get too old and don't feel like their body can deal with this anymore right um they go to as long as they've been here long enough to a life member status right um we are trying to get the younger crowd in we we have a good group of young people because you know the fire department is not getting any younger right um and this is very hard work so the you know the longer we can keep somebody here coming down from 16 up till 18 when they become a full member they get a taste for what it is they enjoy it and then we try to keep them moving forward what's like so what's some of the benefits of someone who's interested in the life mhip well it in to be a fireman you get a clothing allowance yearly um you also get lowp if you make all your numbers and then once you've put uh I believe it's 15 years in then you can apply for life membership and then you get to come to all the dinners you can come out to the Civic stuff and you don't have to maintain a fire percentage or any of those requirements and chief it's also a great way if somebody wants to get into the fire service to join with the volunteers AB get their firew certification then they can start applying for yeah career jobs had a bunch of people do it we have a couple career fireman on our department now and it's a uh a value to have them uh come in and get their you know feet wet and then get back out there into a career Department and then we've been very lucky the people who are in career departments bring their training back to us um and that that is fantastic and one of those things in in the goals was to establish a rapid intervention team that is if a fireman goes down inside of a burning building this is a team of folks who are very specialized with their training who can go get those people out and that is that is a going to be we've already started with drills and that's going to be uh moving forward this year and where's the what line item would that be in what line item would that be in your budget it it's just mixed into our uh rescue I didn't add anymore we have a lot of this equipment now it's a lot of training a lot of time um the one thing that we did add was the accreditation yeah I see in the administrative support Fire Department administrative support one from to 5,000 what's yeah so that is uh something that we're looking to do towards the um probably the end of the year and that is trying to alleviate the fire chief with a lot of the responsibilities of the financial end um this is a very in-depth job and if this was a career Department there would be a lot of Staff involved so you're thinking of hiring somebody then yes yep yeah we've been we've been very very fortunate with how long we've had had been and how much he understands our purchasing Contracting bidding process quotes working with vendors a typical department is going to be a assistant second assistant chief and a chief that they float through every every year almost and those if we get to that point we're going to need somebody to look after all the purchasing stuff both you and Rich support this something that we've honestly this is something that's been sort of kicked around with uh other Chiefs even even prior to to to Vinnie uh but nothing really had coalesced uh and Vinnie really has done an excellent job on the administrative side of running the department um you know he's he's one of our strongest employees uh and people involved with the burough when it comes to managing cost uh and you know getting getting vendors to see things his way purchasing and uh so we we thought you know the time's probably right to consider formalizing something um we didn't want to really add the budget cost for this uh so if you see there's an offsetting decrease in the clothing allowance line which has been rather consistently below uh that 52,000 for the last bunch of year so we just took it uh from that broke out $5,000 of that uh and you know we'll see how things progress into the fall uh and how we may you know set up a some sort of a part-time position for that now this isn't someone outside the department you're not looking for somebody in the department we haven't really gotten that far down the road with this I think I don't want to speak for the chief councilman but the chief's responsibilities over the last 20 years have just been more I'm not saying but I'm wondering if just going to be an outside person or someone in the department or I it really you know you're thinking about it you look for somebody who understands fire as well because I mean when when I get a purchase order change from Vinnie it's usually going down right he's he's wrestled them down to a lower dollar amount but he understands their business somebody from the outside May understand purchasing and things like that but may not understand the business of firefighting so ideally you would like both and you could probably work with either side if it's somebody that you're going to have for a while and not be a rotating you can do the training on the purchasing side you can get them to understand all the things they have to do and theoretically on the other side you know the fire department can help them in terms of understanding the fire over time so this is not something that would transition transition to a full-time position we're not that's not been the discussion so far all right thank you Chief I have a quick question for you in the contract of services that's your biggest jump in your proposed budget right it counts for the it counts for your retire rat what's in that that Services yeah that is the accreditation process for year one that that difference is that exact amount and then year two I believe it it drops to 5,000 and and would you just explain that accreditation process a little bit yeah it's um it starts out with uh three to five policies per week being sent to myself and I'll disseminate that to the other Chiefs that get uh reviewed checked sent back with any corrections it goes to uh lexip Po's lawyers they review it they make changes they send it back to us we okay it and then it goes out to the department thank it's very very similar to the way the police do it and and this is an outside firm like the police department has yeah yeah lexipol actually bought the rubber oh that's the name that lexip yeah makes sense thank you that's who's going to accredit you yeah well they they give us you know we get everything in order and then that goes to the GIF and I believe there's some monetary benefit from the GIF back to the burrow we get a line it of credit from the GIF on the police accreditation so we see the same on the fire department yes good good anything else on the OE are seller wage okay yeah um nothing crazy here we have a uh fire department vote that we have had since the 70s we've uh re uh powered it and it is uh operating fine it's just taken beatings over the years that we'd like to get uh the gel coat you know fixed up repainted um and that's that cost there um we're looking to get a an electric combination tool which will cut and spread to put on a vehicle uh to replace our hydraulic unit I like the Jaws it's the Jaws life but it's just um electric it's battery powered and what and what is it now how uh it's hydraulic powered oh we have a physical pump on the truck you have to start it get it running connect hoses that sort but wouldn't hydraulic be more powerful it is electric over hydraulic and no the battery power it is everything else is going is far superior to the ones that are yeah plus you're tethered with 100t cord where the battery power and stuff you can take anywhere true right okay and they operate for you know 45 minutes or so on a battery charge so they're they're really pretty uh pretty amazing and they're constantly changing just with the the batteries I know the batteries tend to be the the the driving cost on on these things and and and do you have like do you have a spare battery that that so you yeah we have one uh we a hearse department so we have multiple batteries for them so if we take one out we bring another one with us okay you know and still have more on charge uh fire hose replacement we haven't had that lot you know asked for that in quite a while we've lost a bunch of Hose uh this last year of Hose testing and uh we need to replace some of that especially the uh supply line we have 5 in hose it's quite expensive per length uh new Scot packs we were able to get a grant a couple years ago but that Grant didn't outfit the entire department so we're we're asking for two per year until that number is hit how many do we need in total um we need another six I believe on top of this so eight all together yeah okay and then uh a a lifting bag a 24.9 ton lift bag for large uh Vehicles this is something you put underneath it and yeah it'll and how is that powered air air the bag yeah yeah it's pretty uh it's pretty uh interesting stuff but yeah it's power did you use it had to use it yet we don't have it yet we have new yeah yeah this Capital request y okay and then the uh fire department apparatus funding Chief can you can you just talk a little bit about the fire department apparatus funding wasn't there just a state law that they just passed extending the past 20 years um I don't know about a state law we go by the NFPA suggestions so engines 20 years trucks 25 but it's not a requirement it's a suggestion it's a suggest benefit to us if we go out and bond on a vehicle uh what they've done is now extended the term of the bond so we can borrow over a longer period since we're reserving cash in advance uh as much as we can we're paying cash and not paying any of the interested fees oh no no I was just asking just a policy so we're not including that in this budget then we're including the uh $200,000 in annual funding uh to replace the fire apparatus we don't actually have a plan purchase for this year it's you know we're accumulating the reserve so that when we have tol what's the reserve amount now up this it'll be $746,000 182 and what's what's the next not8 not 83 on the next apparatus to be replaced is 1032 it's a 2003 Pierce and it is um it's an engine yes it is an engine and it is looking to be uh replaced we're in we have a truck now we've seen a couple vendors what's the cost um it varies from 700 to 1.1 on an engine you know the prices are every year they go up 10% and that's pretty much standard across all vendors are you having trouble with this by the 20 years yeah they're ridden pretty hard for 20 straight years so it it definitely does help to you know put them to the reserve our Reserve piece right now is a 1993 and it's uh falling apart the amount of money that it requires to get in you know tip toop shape is is not worth putting into so when do you anticipate this uh we're starting the process this year uh depending on the funding and depending on how much the quotes come back at this year or next year is what we're looking at and you'll make sure it fits in the garage right absolutely and and what we were what we talked about too is with the price escalations that we're seeing in the fire oper industry uh well we're not proposing an increase in that $200,000 amount for this year's budget going forward we may need to increase that to 250 or even 300,000 or we risk getting very far behind on the replacement schedule um because you know if it is 10% a year and don't know how long that'll last but that's been years now give or take um you know that's eating up that capacity of that $200,000 and making it you know adding years uh before you can actually go out and buy a replacement apparat Vinnie and I are going to sit down in you know March April and we had a schedule a few years ago which helped us identify the 200,000 as what we thought we would need so what we're going to do is we're going to re-evaluate the cost of each vehicle throw it into the schedule and then say okay where are we what impact that's going to be then we'll bring it back to you know the finance committee and the you know the governing body and say okay this is what we're looking at what do you think we should do how the I understand the ladder truck had a lot of problems in the beginning or a little bit of problems no it it it's a custom buil truck there was something something went wrong well it's a heavy duty truck things break all the time um as far as the operation of it we had a um there was a uh I forget the rings on the truck I don't want to get too technical but we had a auto stowing issue that they had to replace Auto Stow so you press a button and the ladder will go down and bed itself and that feature had an issue they had to come out and replace that and that's okay now that's fine now it's good so there's no problems with the this ladder truck nope Chief it's all covered on a warranty right warranty yep yeah the warranties is on the apparatus are pretty much a year on the on the body and um then you know you get the drivetrain warres are a little different so we've had this now three years delivery in 22 I going on two years so we're out of warranty oh yeah is there any sense in buying extended warranty on these things or can you even I I don't think they offer an extended warranty on them because of the nature of the you know every Department's different you have a city that'll put you know 10,000 miles on it in a year we're we're not that no not that busy okay did you have a question no just a quick question um I might have missed this what's a yes Scott pack is that something Scott pack is the uh self-contained breathing apparatus we put on our backs when we go into a into a fire or other areas where we can't breathe the air and you're say you need to replace six of them or what was it in total eight um this is just asking for two because they are very expensive and we did receive I think it was A4 million dollar Grant yeah replaced majority of two years ago it just didn't get us the total number that we had okay thank you anybody else have any questions or the chief I would just like to just side note just thank you I didn't realize you do all this I didn't realize you were the chief and well thank you for everything you do oh you're very welcome we have a lot of uh very skilled dedicated people in the department yeah thanks you're very welcome anybody else any question great job thank all right next time Wonder thanks buddy thanks thanks thanks thank you oh yeah it's going to be R do you want to bring DPW right up everybody's let's just keep going have a cool anybody need I never anybody on the bud Anthony has anybody used the bot Court I've never see a person on it I didy Anthony come on well I for squa but I mean I haven't we actually was that you Craig that uh Scott and I Scott and I Scott Chelli sarella dominated Craig oberheim and Mike McMahon and Bot and they haven't shown up the play well you move that of town you to move because of it well I want to thank the superintendent marel you want to you want to introduce your your team absolutely um we'll get started this is Kevin cerio um he's uh assistant superintendent and been um responsible most re recently for overseeing a lot of the construction with the posos and as well as the sewer project um to his left craig oberheim um he originally started 20 years ago um within the road Division and um we had a mechanic retiring and Craig was always very handy with um on you know uh the vehicle braks uh you know he could fix it out on the road and things and then I find out later that he's a Certified mechanic and uh vehicle maintenance specialist and and um he didn't list that on his resume he I don't I don't I don't think he wanted actually didn't want to do it anymore was do day good thing you didn't want to do it anymore me out so I learned quickly that um you know and he he can be used uh in many applications but he does a terrific job over there um I'll just start with a quick um overview of the department uh the department is is made up of boots on the ground 20 20 individuals and uh broken up into seven divisions uh roads streets and Roads um water vehicle maintenance snow removal um storm water management uh building and buildings and grounds and um I think I named seven uh I'll start off with roads that's more than uh than simply filling Pooles we we maintain uh aot quite a few properties uh at the highway exits for the state um because they just simply um don't they don't and uh you would have to you know the grass and things would be quite tall we wouldn't be able to see through intersections and things but uh for the residents can you just give a approximately how many miles of Road are you responsible for um I believe we there's between 7 and 20 County and about 60 um Lane miles of a Road 60 miles of of road I think it's residents understand the magnitude of of you're undertaking yeah uh 9 square miles I think I believe Oakland is about um about that size um I'll go to storm water that's uh basically um the purpose of that division is just the state has lots of regulations in many different areas they have a we have to keep uh consistent storm water management plan and what that does and you you know usually there's some things that I don't agree with this one is it's great it's uh they set up some boundaries and some goals and through borrow ordinance that you people pass uh we there's certain things we have to do annually for public education um it's and that's everything from cleaning storm drains and locating outfalls uh we mapped all our outfalls way if if Vinnie had a a car accident and our basins and everything are numbered uh we can look them up we have a grid if if oil were to go into a basin on Spruce Street we know where its outfall point is to the river we can let fire no and and and OEM had to capture that but um it's we own and operate um just probably 22 2500 uh catch basins roadside catch basins alone every year each one is inspected and we average the first year we went out uh we we years ago Eric probably mayor Kamala probably remembers there was a we had a vac truck I'm just going to ask you do we have a vac truck so now uh we'll actually go out the first year uh we went out and did it ourselves the truck then was a um 1982 you know old scavenger they called it and uh we would lift every lid we had to clean every Basin out because for 15 years prior we hadn't done any and it wasn't um you know it wasn't the the Department's fault it was just there's a lot of other things and Staffing was different then uh so now after doing this what 15 years probably this storm water pollution prevention and stuff 14 a little longer you know what I think the the first RS actually put probably came out in like 2003 2004 right so probably about 20 now so we don't we don't we don't need a vector truck um actually we'll talk about that since we maintain and inspect them every year and every time we go out and make a repair when roads are repaved uh we'll go out and this way we'll check them at that time even if we just check them a month before that what we'd hate to see is the road get resurfaced and then there's a little hole next to the B B that um on the road that was just fixed so whenever whenever we open a lid we'll shovel out whatever's in them annually we probably now that we do it every year there's we're probably down to 100 between 100 and 150 that we clean um that we have to physically um clean every year um it it's getting less and less and now we have the the the storm drain grates that are smaller so water bottles and stuff can't pass through so every time we resurface a road we have to redo the grit to storm rates as well so it's all helping and um you know so that's storm water management uh buildings and grounds that's a when I'm going to say three more three men Department it's not in addition to the 20 collectively we're 20 um buildings and grounds that's a three-man department um they're their primary um their primary responsibilities are building maintenance is Building Maintenance and it's all bar own buildings including out buildings um that includes the roofs on our wells everything um and then those are the guys U that you also see on the ball fields and there's nine baseball fields uh the football field six tennis courts the Bachi Court um and there's four buildings alone at the Redfield uh three fire station Senior Center Library so they they're there's they get quite a bit done with three men and that's Jim McWilliams is the supervisor down there and um if you spent any time in one of these buildings you know who Jim is oh yeah y so um buildings and grounds uh water um that's uh you want to speak or you want you want yeah no I can um so the water um we have seven Wells three boosters uh four treatment plants uh I'm sure you know majority of especially the mayor and Council and probably the residents also know that you know we went through a p uh filtration system upgrade um currently two of those three treatment plants are in service nine isn't yet nine is not yet no um but they are working on it daily um excuse me and it will uh you know shortly be up and run we are in compliance correct we are in compliance and that's why the contractor really wanted to focus on Wells 10 and Wells 5 because those were the ones that were out of compliance with the state regulations for palls we decided to go to well nine as you know to be preemptive you know today it's okay tomorrow might not be a price well well nine there were certain quarters where it would be over other quarters where it would be under so I think the rolling annual average was only for like quarter where it was over so was not included in the compliance schedule uh from the DP for the ACL uh right now um there's going to be some uh we're waiting for the hookup the the Electric hookup from onr on well 9 uh We've also been talking about some additional upgrades that would take the form of a change order that you'll probably see at the end of March uh the original pump is still in there it's like 56 years old uh there's Pat there's uh guess what's called packing material that is uh corroded and needs to be replaced this is In N this is in nine so it makes sense while we're in there and to just replace everything and have it new rather than get this all buttoned up and two months later during the heat of the summer it it fails uh so you're going to see a change order coming down on that uh and assuming that that that you approve that uh you know that would be authorized they would do that work then finish the connections and uh then turn it back up again yeah and because of the way the systems designed um nine is critical and right now if you notice in case you guys get questions on the bottom of of um yo app by the intersection of East Oak you'll see a hydrant to hydrant connection um that's not it's functional if we need it but it's not in use right now if we were to have um trouble with Walnut booster M um we'd have to it's kind of a Zone switch and it's another way to convey water to Spear Street tank if um if if need be um so I just I wanted to mention that but until Kevin got into it I did Escape me but um um so um we also have approximately 600 fire hydrants that we flush annually uh that is part of the water quality accountability act uh even prior to that we were doing it yearly um but now it is actual law um about over 70 mes of water main um also including with the water quality accountability act uh we are tasked to exercise the street valves uh depending on the size of the street valve depends on how often we do it um I do have a crew whenever we have time to go out and um and exercise those valves um we do excuse me do all the regulatory sampling um depending on the year is depending on what we're really sampling for um and I think that's about it unless I miss something no you're good um from water uh we'll speak about um vehicle maintenance and since um Craig is here um I'll just you know I I just want to say that there's you know it says you know our vehicles 250 um pieces of equipment but I mean the the this is there's two men in there right now Craig and um and Mike faul and uh Craig's here so he's going to explain some things but a little little bit about Mike Faulk is this guy is um a real asset and he he's he's like a car guy I guess you would say and he'll he'll have his coffee and his lunch at his workbench and he he just doesn't he doesn't walk away from that area it's I never have to you know where's Mike I need him for something um and and you know he he really he'll eat his lunch under under a vehicle he just loves everything about it and um Craig why don't you explain you know typical you know operations if it's from you know like services or I mean it's could be anything so as it says here it's 250 pieces of equipment that is police cars we service five of the fire vehicles Les building department Vehicles all the DBW vehicles uh and every other piece of equipment that we have blowers we whackers the loader backo yeah it's it's everything you can think of that cut all the Bowers everything is you know and that's the that's the thing his hidden skill set was um I was I was uh grateful to you know when I approached him about about it cuz I didn't you know it's kind of in a unique position where uh it's different than dealership work where you're put under a vehicle and you're there till it's finished and and you get your time and money for that vehicle I can't tell you how many times he's had a vehicle on the lift and something comes in that either trumps that vehicle or one of my vehicles are broken down on the road and it's just um constant motion and the fact that um it's it's really two men in there is amazing and and he's a big asset to the finance department as well I mean 250 things that he takes care of are all assets that we have to track and manage and keep record of and and he is phenomenal in terms of making sure everything is accounted for it's got a sticker on it it's in our system um you know so it's really helpful for our department as well so that includes the the fire department's Vehicles well the the chief's vehicles right the Expedition not the engines no the apparatus uh those are considered outsourc repairs funded through the fire department budget most of that equipment maintenance line item in the fire department is for uh you know fixing vehicles and and prevent a preventative maintenance program on the fire apparatus as well so we keep vehicle records for everything so you you know when last time they needed tires or oil change or t up or really okay get figure out how to open the door sorry yeah he can Craig has um you know uh quite an extensive record keeping system and um you know it it it he'll even manage Trends and and and can kind of foresee and track the useful life of each vehicle and in fact his um a sheet that's here I don't I don't believe you have it but he's got um for Public Works um the um it's basically a replacement schedule for all of the and the up to 20 38 where where we'll be and that that that will you know dependent on on the condition in the use um sometimes it gets moved around but um you know to to answer that we have he keeps records on on everything and and but he can also recite you know I was talking to him today and um just one thing he said I'm like yeah you know uh one thing I want to tell them about the increase in cost that everyone knows that an oil changes more and I'm like you know six quarts of oil is a lot more than it was a couple years ago and I pointed at one of the vehicles and he said that's nine qus so I was and I I was just checking him of course of course Craig it's good thing you want do this anyway so you so there's there's no um idea about electric vehicles ever coming into our po Never Never Say Never uh I I think it's a when we look at that we try to ascertain whether it makes sense economically quite frankly right we we looked at it years ago for hybrids Priuses uh and given the low amount of mileage of the ROI was like 20 years we'd have to keep the vehicle on the fleet to break even on the cost of a gas powered vehicle even accounting for the projected cost of fuel and the like I mean know ta I think it's probably the future at some point um I the technology on these is not finished for cold weather did you see what happened in Chicago yeah oh yeah they unreliable it's not there yet it's not even close there are there there is I guess a uh electric police vehicle I think there was one maybe one Department that we were aware of that had it they were having a lot of problems with the battery packs not laughting not lasting a full uh 12h hour shift okay uh you're looking you're looking at your charging infrastructure in addition to just buying the vehicles you're looking at probably doubling the size of your primary control Fleet from from 5 or 6 to 10 or 12 um because you need to have time for that vehicle to recharge okay uh I mean cold weather there's no guarantee you're charging anything below 20° it's a if if there's an economic argument to be made certainly I think probably with the the police Fleet given the amount of mileage and fuel that they consume um and eventually I think the technology will get there we're not seeing that operationally is there yet yeah with with um Public Works I mid storm I don't have time for a down vehicle to plug it back you know and we looked at uh if you recall we ordered a new senior bus not too long ago and that's on order uh and we had looked at uh buying an electric vehicle for that uh the senior sener director had done her research there was grant money out there for it uh and even with that grant money uh the cost was like $38,000 more uh and and again we we have a senior Transportation program but given the relatively no low mileage per year uh we couldn't economically justify operationally it it's rather Limited in range compared to a gas vehicle uh if we want to take it further a field it runs the risk of needing to find a place to recharge uh on that trip without you know without being able to do a round trip um again I think it sounds great uh I think when you really start getting into the details for a lot of our particular use cases uh it's not mature enough yet just asking so let's no I was going to I was going to bring it back to get to of the budget I was going to ask Mr over a quick question um regards to and actually if you recall when I first got in the council we had the fleet was in pretty rough shape yeah and now with the replacement program is currently taking place you feel that we're you're in an adequate position now with we are now we to to touch on with uh the mayor speaking we went and the thinking um was a little different back then we had a large undertaking of the building our building was um had mold had it leaked and um a previous administrator was under um the feeling that anything capital for Public Works we were going to lay into that set aside for that building for the day uh so we went Craig you know how many years without eight years eight years without pring without replacing a vehicle and my argument was just because we're building a building our vehicles don't stop getting older and and there were some pretty um times that I got to be honest I was during that period um and the the stories about having street signs as floorboards they're true um that's not an urban legend that that was our OEM vehicle was like and and we only auctioned off the last of those uh what two two years ago yeah somebody bought it might not running but I'm I'm comfortable now but it's something that uh like and and it's kind of it's kind of funny I explained this list and it and I'll we'll share this tomorrow um but it it goes to uh 2038 and then it says start over because the vehicles when when we started the aggressive um repl replacement program some of those vehicles are getting replaced already and basically for the for the the salt trucks the large trucks um we try to keep them at least 20 years Craig and and the and the um this the Frontline pickup trucks salt trucks uh 10 to 15 but the the winter beats them up and the salt and that's primary their primary use other than driving from A to B when we put miles on them it's out pushing snow and that's it's a violent you you know it's it's something you have to experience cuz the the noise and the and the jostling and the violent you know it it will take the glasses off your face if you catch a raised manhole that he because of frost so but um to answer your question uh we we're in a good spot right now but I don't want to give uh I don't want to tell you we're great and we'll ask in five years again but we need to we need to has to be an ongoing process that's the qu I want to make sure that this is happening and you know collectively we have made tremendous you know we we've come a long way in a in a rather short period of time time and now we just got to it's it's an evolve it's an evolution we just have to keep so you're in a good spot right now we just have to just keep we when I first came on the council on the OEM vehicle used to look down you could see the road sitting in the that was his first was an old DPW truck so okay go through Sal L yeah y okay all right yeah to the the overall yeah Solid Waste is um is and um Kevin can probably speak on that as well but it's a um it's a contracted service but um we still have a recycling coordinator um we probably receive uh 25 calls per day on Solid Waste alone whether it's you know when can I put out Electronics um things like that uh and the contract expires at the end of 2025 at the end of 2025 uh and uh um you know we can we'll touch more on that but it's a contracted service um you can some weeks you can put something out to your curb every day and it'll get picked up um snow removal is um an all Hands-On deck operation from start to finish when it snows first sk come in um salers will go out and they'll make a decision when to bring in uh the the the drivers and and contractors if and when they're available and uh from streets after a storm it usually takes from the snow stop falling about 6 hours to clean cue saacs um and then we'll get right out to sidewalks and try to have them uh you know because there Oakland has a 24-hour ordinance they're supposed to be and sometimes these guys just need to go home and get some rest and it's it's kind of rough but it's better to do them before they go home than after so sometimes they could be out there in the center of town um at 300 in the morning doing sidewalks uh and then go home get a couple hour sleep and have to be in it the next the next morning so um and what waste waterer right yes waste water we didn't touch um okay sure uh so as you all know that uh we recently decommissioned three wastewater treatment plants um we converted all the Wastewater uh into lift stations which eventually uh all of our waste water gets pumped to nbcua um to their treatment plant um and right now we have the project is still ongoing on the uh the decommissioning side of it the plants are offline every single drop of sanitary sewer is getting pumped out of Oakland uh so we are not treating any more Wastewater um the contractor is doing um you know essentially knocking down the old treatment plants um today they were at Oakwood NES um I believe uh it might be tomorrow or Friday they are going to Sky View and then eventually to Chapel Hill oak oak wood Hall is Oak is done it is very close to being done um I was there today right after lunch uh they had I believe all the majority of the pits removed um majority of them backfilled um there's there's still a couple other pits that they have to pull but that you're looking about like a day or so of work have we reached a decision Richard on their request to turn that into a parking couple paring uh yeah we've actually been working with the borrow engineer on I guess there are actually three sort of options that were presented we gave them feedback on that uh as well as some additional screening uh I think they're in the process of costing that out for us now uh and it would provide you know I think an additional six parking spaces under the pending pending Drive Council we we had a public meeting with them up actually at the site about a month ago yeah four weeks ago and had had that discussion with them they brought it back and they working on it currently good all right we can start going through the individual uh budgets all right do you want to um uh I I can quickly get through this by just um you'll see uh a 21.8 uh percent reduction in the one column and it's not um you know our Brilliance but it's just we move it's a movement of fun of uh the street sweeping operations out of streets and Roads to storm water management um and so the next page you'll see you'll see you'll see an increase um you want to ask questions you want to wait till the end for questions or I think ask ask as we go yeah this was pretty straightforward yeah and and you you will see slight increases but it's it's not one thing I can say rather than say it now we're then 100 times over as we turn each page where we don't really purchase items other than you know asphalt asphalt P petroleum based um it we're like a repair and maintenance service so in buildings and ground you may see uh you know and I don't have it's we're not there yet but one year we could spend $10,000 more and then two years have have a low and then it and an increase again and that could simply be something as an air conditioner on this building went that um was no longer in warranty but it's a $15,000 item so you know this is it's not a guess it's it's it's um a running average and and an in-depth look look at the previous year's needs and and and what um what was required but uh I can say that about every division we're going to go through so I'll just give that to you once and and I'll give you the other side of that during these budget meetings with Anthony we he he came in pretty slim there was a couple of times where we had long conversations about having to take a budget up a little bit because we thought that he had gone to slip so he and his Department that put together their budget really do do a good job of looking at what what they spend and what they think they need and they don't spend up until the budget I do not get requests at the end of the year for just spend spend spend so we can use up all our budget they really are this is what we think we need and we're only going to buy you know what what we have to to to run the business not a lot of oob no that's what you told me last year so yeah and and I've experience that on the other side I know I know that's you know what happens if you do that then December something happens and I got to go to David no no I know that's why David and I talked about that and you know I I think everybody here understands you know my Approach David's approach our Collective approach to to budgeting and asking for what you legitimately think that you're going to require to run your department uh coupled I think with a bunch of years coming out during and coming out of uh the Great recession going back that far where we did have to put budget freezes in place for December uh I I think I know I still have that in the back of my mind we get late in every every budget year um but you know it's certainly an odd occurrence when we sit down in the fall and do the departmental budget meetings when I'm the one there going well I think we need to increase this line and they look at me funny because that's that's usually not the way it goes uh but yes right like who are you um but you know I think that's that's where we've been at with in in the last couple of years with some of these inflationary pressures and and before before Co and before um the recession and things we went quite a while and where we were flat you know with anything that was discretionary you know if the change sampling regulation obviously we have to do what they say but our our spending was was quite consistent and um you know now you know you see at the supermarket and you see slight increases in in throughout this budget so why don't we just dig into this we'll go through quickly got questions let's just go motor right through um storm water um I mentioned on the road side that um street sweeping was moved to uh storm Warner management you'll see that in the contracted Services line yep so um the other there right the other part of contracted Services there uh is also and Pat this goes to your question question earlier uh some money there to do jetting as a service with nbcua this year do what Sor sorry sto uh storm sewer line jetting cleaning out uh don't know that we'll need that that full allocation but that's sort of based on the inspection activity uh we may want to look at you know buying our own equipment down the road um but we thought this was a cost effective approach this year especially with the enhanced permit requirements for storm water we want to make sure that we're you know that compliance with all of that too and properly maintaining our system you know you saw a complaint last week from a resident uh we have an initiative underway to uh replace all of the storm sewers especially in the pleasure land neighborhood right now because they're old corrugated metal and they rot away it's not like concrete pipe um so there's separate capital allocations for that um but you know it's all part and parcel of how we want to maintain our infrastructure and of meeting these enhanced storm water management permit requirements as well and these are mandated by the state we have no control over yeah uh in one way or another for about the past 20 years y anybody else have anything on storm water management good solid waste um Solid Waste count of Kevin kind of touched on it um um it's the the increase is everyone's having and and there's um my also the recycling there's no return on recycling at this time it's actually um it cost more expens it's more expensive to get rid of we used to it was a commodity we used to get money for it and um may they lie to it yeah how about and now we uh now we actually pay more to get rid of the recycling to have it carded and tip tipping they call it where they bring it to the station it's more than um than the the solid ways the garbage and we've had several discussions about this at the council level struggling with this this huge budget increase and how to really deal with this and one one thing if you want if you wanted to talk uh you wanted to mention it I know there was a grant available for um research on well you could probably explain it right uh so so last year we applied for uh and by we it's not just Oakland but the other flow towns as well uh applied for and obtained a leap Grant um local efficiency aid program I think is that acronym uh to provide 50 ,000 to undertake a study that would explore uh shared service options for our towns for garbage collection and that study will look at both uh collectively Outsourcing and what that level of service may look like how we harmonize our levels of service to accomplish that uh and also if it makes sense to bring the service in house uh and either have one of our communities be the lead agency or perhaps do a joint meeting type model for that uh I I'll ask actually see my counterpart from Franklin Lakes tomorrow and I'll I'm going to ask him because I thought Franklin Lakes was awarding the contract at the end of February for that study uh and it's expected to take about 6 months and that should give us some good information on how to proceed is that $50,000 for the study for regionalization of of just for just one town or Franklin get 50,000 Oakland gets 50,000 how do you know it's yeah right so it's $50,000 collectively for the study okay um uh for for a lead Agency for the grant correct okay correct uh it's just a it's just a study Grant y uh the contract cost is 49,500 and who and who's the who who's who's done uh the vendor is MSW uh it's a nationwide uh consulting company specializing in solid waste and where the grant originate from the state uh yep it's a DCA Department of Community Affairs BR so obviously one of the operational problems is everyone's contracts expire at different times yes it's one of the challenges we have on the other side of the county yes yes uh you know our that's like like a huge Rock in the middle of the road right we'd have to figure out a way timing wise uh to make that work um our contract expires at the end of 2025 so probably a year we will be going back out to bid we will be looking at that uh given the lead times on doing anything else um we we did a three-year contract because when you looked you know we we asked for pricing in the bid for five years again we only received one bid uh on a percentage basis there was uh a rather more significant increase in years four and five so we decided to do a threee the key thing you said is we're only we put it out for a bid we're only getting one respon that's that's been a major one of the problems one of the things we can do um is and we have to talk to the other community that would be in the study is to when there if the contract are say stud's going to take a year year and a half is to put in is to insist on a um on an opt out clause and and if you insist on the opt out clause in your new contract you might be even surprised how that may affect the price right just the mere fact that you're looking into it may change I also brought out but you need but you need but you you can't in other words if if it's going to be Oakland Franklin Lakes and in Mawa say you got to get the governing bodies and the and and and on board and you know there's elections every year and people bring different agendas into these things but if you can get the attorneys to enter into an agreement a preliminary agreement to just something in w to suggest that the town that say we talk to mararo everyone can sign a letter letter in 10 Bally letter and something in writing that you could hold up to the public and and and and Jawbone say the politics change is next year and you know there's a white you could you could say hey this is this this is a CH service we're agreeing to and we all so something that would put pressure on incoming people uh politically that they can I don't know what you think of that idea but I proposed it in in Emerson so I also told Richard that Wayne contractor with a company from New York and saved a million dollars so I know we have to get permission for them to operate in New Jersey but they saved considerable amount of money Patterson and Wayne well if you're doing Wayne and Patterson they have permission to operate in New Jersey so yeah right but they're not going to like the op C but they also have a duty they even if they're not on for them to shut down and just said we're not picking up garbage and try to that won't really fly get an injunction on that for public safety reasons so there's some we we have some but you got to get cooperation with the other this is a tough thing to solve you know this is something where for as large as our increase has been um you know it's I can say with you know oh it's cold comfort but our huge increase was over the span of several years right uh Franklin Lakes with like 100% or more in one year when they redid their contracts uh see 65% in other towns on the other side of the county yeah let's get back to the budget sorry but that's just a couple of really quick things on this budget you're going to see a huge uh change there in Personnel uh as Anthony said there's 20 workers in the department that's not adding anybody it's just reclassifying uh the the person that maintains the Compost Facility uh his salary is going to be allocated there now um the removal contract uh again it's up according to the bid speec award uh last year for some reason we just put everything on garbage removal uh but that number that paid and charge number of one almost 1.6 million includes the recycling as well this year we're making sure again that it's reflected in the correct line item um and then the disposal tipping fees for garbage has a uh I think $3 per ton increase year over-year uh that's affecting that particular line item could you just expand upon that a little bit of what's happening and why the count this is the county driving a tipping uh actually no the the Count's well that that's a smaller right related issue uh so we went out to bid uh with the other flow communities what C was the lead agency uh on a 5-year contract for disposal uh the County facility was another option uh we awarded the contract to G they had the best pricing over the 5-year term there are cost escalators in every year of the contract though uh and so you're going to see additional an additional amount per ton every year that 5-year agreement uh this year it happens to be $3 per ton and it's going up the other issue is NBC I'm sorry the BCU a imposed uh after that contract award a $189 per ton fee on all wayte generated in Bergen County uh it ostensibly to sort of replace funding from another Revenue source that had dried up for them uh and the question now is who pays for that okay it's not in our contract it's something that we're trying to work out with uh you know with the disposal company at this point okay all right um but you know you know there is money in there for for that eventually I just thought it was important for the council to understand that this is being driven by the bcua um smell removal um is what it is this year there was a a slight increase in salt per ton um it's non reflected in the budget it's uh we rely on a a snowplow trust if we get this killer winter um the the numbers here are based on what my average needs would be for the materials and uh the uh materials and equipment and supplies that's everything from plow lights to whatever Craig may need to keep um the fleet functional and um we have 2023 um it's kind of a a good news story Dave if you want to share yeah a very very light um we've had a couple years in a row of of a little bit lighter in terms of activity around snow uh we had replenished at the end of 2022 so we actually didn't need to do any salt replenishment during 2023 probably got some coming in for this year this all goes into the storm removal trust so this money moves over into the trust that enables us also to spend that on other events you know we'd be able to do anything with storm removal any storm cleanup uh we use this and we probably plan to do again this year for purchase of capital items that we can take off of you know the capital budget um so while phenomenal year why would you budget you know $133,000 when you only spent you know 16 it's well that bu money is going to move and you know you don't know what's going to happen next year in terms of storm so and and you know right now uh we're in great shape um I think um uh the first uh requisition was for 20 or 30,000 and that's about used up but we are full but um I don't want to say we're in great shape uh people are looking at it as the Winter's over the winter for us is half over cuz right round right flipping the calendar pages and we have three about three months left um of winter and we've had Halloween storms we've had November blizzards andil [Applause] next okay um buildings and grounds I explained the functions um the the everything here um the increases are driven by Price cost there's no we're not doing anything new uh we're just uh the park maintenance Clay is more expensive for the ball field seed paint uh repair items there's um again uh we've seen you know rooftop air conditioned units that were $7,000 or can be 14,000 15,000 um to get replaced and I as I said it's a repair and maintenance thing and this is that we do so hopefully um like they like with snow at the end of the year I have money to give back but sometimes we're transferring in from buildings and grounds and and from other um divisions and sometimes it also goes out so we're hoping again this is kind of a Tren based thing and with put some inflation in there um for you for the the last line there um rental of land um sasana we have a drain pipe that's across the street from Public Works um uh that's on their property and the parking across the street since we were leasing the land uh we we've made parking there they didn't have an issue with that so we have some added parking but there is a drain pipe under it um there's another that uh parking lot in the center of town where the the new the park is going to be the um the Station Park there's some commuter parking there that's on their property and we have another area where there's actual water main and that go under the railroad tracks and things like that so the rental of land is uh and that that's number that evolves and Rich um when Lisa was clerk we've tried reaching out to the railroad and and let just say let give me you know because we get a little a slight increase every it's not every year every couple years and you'll see this one is buildings and grounds that's this one is where I charge off the parking lot you'll see one in water and um that's where the storm water and the and the and that goes but I can I I have a tough time getting an answer on what this year's um you the actual numbers will be resp you know so they it's you know anybody any questions on closing ground I I have a question I know this is operational is there any uh Capital expenses expenditures you know on the buildings that we need to be is that that um just so we don't forget a lot of that stuff is um already on ordinances previously right that were're you know still working through design and plans for so there may not be a lot of building stuff I don't think in this year's but but over into the capital plan in total there's quite a bit okay I can send you the schedule that's got all of them and if you'd like yeah you just what's falling apart vehicle vehicle maintenance um the increase I could I you know um I don't want to go you know repeat the same things but it's um inflation driven increas nominal matches Consumer Price Index increases like a what what if just parts parts the parts alone on a Ford Explorer brakes and rotors yeah brakes and rotors for our cost front and rear is just about $600 and that's not that doesn't include it's not La it's not it's just that's just cutting rotors or or replacing replacing reping and police car tires tires are $230 a piece so $11,000 to put so 1,600 to do brakes and tires on a police vehicle and that doesn't include labor that doesn't include labor so it's just inflation Dr that can be several times per year per vehicle anybody have any questions on this no next [Applause] page utility budget okay um utility budget um posos and um the sewer project uh that's really what's driving um the the expenses here we have the filters that Kevin spoke about that are going on the wells and the the three booster stations and the uh brand new booster stations and the sewer uh package plant coming offline and you also see in here the first starting to pay for the posos treatments uh what you're seeing here is just the interest on the note when we start paying that down and go to longer term financing principal payments going to be coming into this too that's a $4.7 million you know note that's going to be out there so that's going to also be a significant impact that we're going to be seeing here down the road 7 million 4.7 million 4.7 okay still $4.7 million so it's not it's not inexpensive we're already in the process of putting all the stuff we need to inside of the ibank so that when we go to soon on the sewers uh hopefully we will get some principal relief on that um from the future because we do have principal relief for some of the posos treatment stuff that we're doing so we're even though soon isn't required yet we're starting to process now so we're in the assistant so we get some of that money back and 4.7 has the interest rate been calculated yet or we still uh interest rates uh this year is at four was at a little bit over under 4.2 um so I certainly would not go to long-term financing now I'm hoping that the rates are going to come back back down a little bit when we did our last Bond we were just over two um and that's it's an election year real real money yes so at the end of the day because of the P we're looking at about $48 increase in water bill anybody um that really does account for for more more than more than the increase because we've had taking Capital down a little bit to try to keep that from being too much of a okay shock anybody else question um and we kind of just hit uh the waste water the sewer utility just covered everything um David spoke about that and U we just did it with water so if you want to move everyone's comfortable move to capital [Applause] capital um if first group of expenditures are uh items needed at the rec complex or around the um the rec facility uh field s irrigation um Rich did you want to talk about about um funding or we just going to I just talk about the the projects briefly themselves and I'll talk about the funding the um field s's uh right by the Danny D building and if you you're ever there it's the only area that um that wasn't uh doesn't have sprink GLS and if you're ever there mid July it's like concrete um because you know you know you coach down there you there's um you know we put out water cannons but um they um they you know we want to do that and also for the the camp we get it's kind of a two birds with one stone thing it's when camps down there these kids will go through the sprinklers there it's right behind the the Danny D Building um the kids love it but it's not it's not only that it just needs to be it's kind of a safety thing that field gets like hard as concrete and we want to utilize the whole facility so that's um that was a request through you know Recreation and shared shared by us as well um bleachers uh around the complex there are some um pretty old units and um safety reason yeah so we're going to upgrade some um some of the bleachers and that'll be an ongoing thing that that 30,000 isn't for all of them we'll just do the worst and and come back to you um annually with that um equipment uh we spoke about the the need to keep this the stock rolling and now this this 130 you see for the two pickups that's plows Craig plows lighting radios that's pick up everything ass on the road that's that's for two of them um and lettering the whole the whole bit uh the bucket truck is interesting uh Craig uh that is a 1997 97 that we purchase used so it's um so it's going to be a new one you're buying it's time yeah it's time and what do you do with the old one we could auction it I mean it'll be it'll be good to some to someone um a contractor or you know some electrical contractor but and you can see on the pickup truck in the snow removal that the uh the funding is over under other funds as we're going to hit the snow the store removal trust I thought you said two pickup trucks 130 it saids 65 uh yeah 65 inside 65 outside that's a typo that's a typo on this for me I made some changes about an hour ago and I didn't get them all the way through so it's not 65 it's 130 for two 65 is funded by Capital the other 65 is funded through the trust right and and with the rec items also we'd be looking to use the trust and or well one one one open space trust right trust you know there's there's trust funding sources for that for those it um streets and Road improvements that we have an annual uh Road resurfacing program that is the first line um storm sewers um Rich explained um a lot of it we received work we've recently been doing um we received grants for uh most recently I believe someone receiv received the question about bir Street uh last week what uh that rich brought to my attention and we already had Northwest Bergen our shared service come in video where um from bir Street on Lakeside to the rampo river and that um right in that intersection um there's a union there that goes from corrugated metal to to concrete pipe the concrete pipe um installed at the same time is intact going towards uh Grand View that section of birch we were able to get the camera in about 13 ft and the bottom of the the um the line the uh the storm drain is rotted out it's corrugated metal so essentially there's a dirt bottom and when the river comes up um they'll see what if the and the alall is below the level of the river you'll actually see water come out of some of those storm drains so every year we do we do something so we're going to replace that we're going to I you know what that is one of the you know it's a recent problem but it's it's um you know after we looked at it you know we could the Integrity of the bottom of the pipe creates a weakness that you know it could create the uh a problem for the stability of the road so we're going to report right May so we actually the question is is they're doing work down there right now are we going to just put a change order in or how we going to we're not going to be able to do that because of the terms of the Grant and Grant deadline that's coming up for that um it it would have to be undertaken as a separate project project but we have we have other things we can chunk with it um that it may be you know may be cost effective to like you said you know it's why they're there while they're there I mean you know we have we have other things and we have some some that are going in with the road program so we could we could probably it's a short run um it's not a great distance and we can probably come up with a number pretty quick um and and and plump it in with the road program because there is some drainage work so okay thank you so there two 40 that's what we get from the state or the county for the now that's the soft cost we break it out we're actually be spending 1.2 million on physical Road stuff the 240 is design engineering construction management oversight if we went out to bonding you know anything any other cost but we do get money for our road program don't we we normally get a a municipal aid grant through the NJ doot annually uh that would be that amount would be inclusive of that grant money that's usually how we work it you don't know the amount uh no I mean yapo AB is the latest one uh that will be undertaking that's already we already have that Grant that's I think the grant amount there is like close to 200,000 or so uh I don't think we've really talked about the the the next funding round announ hasn't been announced yet and uh we haven't talked about selecting a project for that yet so is you going to be repick this year uh the intention uh that I've talked about with the engineer is to try and get that repaved this fall cuz that's that's in pretty rough shape okay yeah there there's been roads um there are like that that we've um probably you know have gone on we applied for a grant and it took uh I think a three you know some of these roads two or three times but um we waited and ended up um you know you know maintain it with Patchwork and then and ended up receiving grants for it so but um like rich said that that yo should be you know it's it's it meets a lot of requirements it's a direct school route it's a you know bus route it's so and break Neck Road the county has agreed to do it yes County um should be April 4th right about April something like thought they stting also 202 down to the mar yeah from um Thunderbird area down Thunderbird tamaa is getting done as well by the count good um storm sewers R sidewalk like uh influence you know we have we have sidewalk repairs and maintenance um projects um is an annual is an annual thing skipping down to buildings and grounds uh Senior Center window treatments not my thing um not my request you know um um that was um right so so right pick so so regardless of the facility if it's it kind of goes under the DPW perview uh the senior center director had put in for window treatment Replacements because I think the ones that are original she had tried to get money through um uh Community Development unprogrammed funds uh that was not the ineligible so she put in the buzzer request for it same thing with uh upgrading the men's room in uh the senior center the women's room was upgraded a number of years ago um David seems to think that the uh priority there see see see uh but but in any event the senior center director you know has I think taken a lot of Pride and a lot of care in maintaining that facility and trying to do upgrades um but she's been out on maternity leave she's returning uh at the beginning of April so that sort of coincided with the budget process we were actually able to to meet with her to talk about those projects before she went out so we put him in here as a as a placeholder uh pending a discussion with her DPW fuel tank upgrades yeah those are that's um the the system is I believe 2007 uh yeah how old is the are there leaks the uh it's it's it's some of the equipment is now um at the end of its useful life the underground alarm system the decking the the concrete from and okay the salt and everything um these are uh regulatory upgrades that we have we get inspected every year there's a permit for that fuel system it's required y firhouse rep yeah um the they're not here now so you can say no that theyve they've actually you know Eric Eric lives in that building and U what are we doing here roof roof roof leaks okay yeah yeah they got they got some pretty nice stuff in there that's that throw the stuff around sometimes it sticks so um moving along uh Rich touched on the the senior center bathroom and the dispatcher AC unit this building had um you know it's it kind of was a work in progress this was a dungeon we um you know I believe a gun range at one time years ago and yeah so um so there's different life life uh you know different sections of the building were were um refurbished at different times and this there's a lot of equipment in there it gets hot in there and the AC units uh for that portion of the building is at the end of its useful life it's constant repairs and it's a like a 24/7 operation so we want to schedule that before it's a complete failure anybody else have any questions for DW no thank you Richard I have a couple of questions from yesterday's presentation but I'll come in to your office and ask rather than hold everybody up sure okay we thank you for that anytime anything else we have anything else before the council that we need to discuss anyone else have any further questions good work app thank you for doing this beneficial for Citizens too they haven't seen this in a while to see what goes on how money spent this is this was actually a really nice form to have we haven't done this in a few years a little a little less yeah ni more comfortable to here so but I think it was important for the residents to really hear you know understand it's been enlightening for me I mean even though I've been on the council only I've been on you know some of the things are refresher you know that I didn't know I just forgot about uh you know it's it's important for those if there is anybody listening for them to hear it it's important well if there's no further business fr the council all right we'll do it again I did this all day at work too same poor thanks again thank you thanks guys good night thanks again guys good job thank you good job thank you